Grounded

Hey, Joe. Hi. So this week, we're back on board the Cerritos, which is an absolute pleasure. It's Star Trek Lower Decks series 3 episode one, which is called grounded, and it resolves the cliffhanger from last year, which saw Carol Freeman marched off her ship in front of the entire crew. I can't remember whether it was soon before or soon after Una got marched off her ship. in Star Trek, Straight Shit World, in that Cliffhanger, but it was a, a kind of bad few months for, uh, for the ladies. Starfleet command officers. Yeah, that's right. We saw our 60s, right? I didn't get into the pool there and go, right, there's too many smart ladies in these shows. That's right. Can you do me a favour? Can you remind me what happened in that last episode? Because I was sort of scratching at my brain watching this. And I can't recall. I absolutely can't remember. I can't remember. All I remember is that they had to take the kind of the outer hull off for some reason, which is why the Cerritos looks the way it does in this episode. So they've taken the hull off. I think there was some kind of space anomaly and they needed to reduce the weight, but I absolutely can't remember. And I don't... Planet blows up, doesn't it? At the end of it. Yeah, yeah. Somewhere. Yes. Yeah. It's not the PackLeds Planet. It's called PackLed Planet. That's what they call it. Of course they do. That's the name they do. Yeah, big, strong city is their capital city on Panacled Planet and it gets blown up, which is kind of hilarious. But fortunately, even if we can't remember last year's cliffhanger we are filled in very nicely by a newsreader, like just before the opening credits. It gives us a lot of detail. And if we watch the Chiron and stuff, there's a lot of news stories that are of interest to people who are fans of Star Trek the Next Generation. and a few other things as well. I could have done with that, you know, when I was watching through Picard, those heavily serialised shows where I couldn't figure out what was going on. There was a news reader at the start of every episode going breaking news. Captain Picard has been up to this last week. I would have been very helpful. Do you know, when we pulled this one out of the randomiser? I had an instant glow because I remember on 1st watch thinking to me, and I've always loved lower decks, but this is where it really clicked into place with me, and I understood all the dynamics really, really well. It's a wonderful episode for showing the family feel amongst the lower deckers going on this insane mission and this space rocket to try and save Captain Freeman and they just do it because they do it for Mariner because they absolutely love her. But there's stuff that leads into all their characters as well because there's crazy science fiction shit going on over there that gets Tendi all excited. And so there's lovely stuff going on amongst the regular group. But then it also really leans into what I think is the best thing about this show and that is Mariner's relationship with her mother. And she's doing all this because despite the fact that they're trying to tear 2 shades of hell out of each other on a regular occasion, like all the best mother-daughter relationships in television, they fucking love each other, and she'll go to heaven and earth ends to try and help her mum in this episode, which is why the rug pool at the end of the episode, which shows you an entire other episode has been playing out amongst the core cast. Yeah, with Tuvok. so funny And all we get to see, it's not even animation. It's just stills of this amazing episode that we've missed while we've been titting around in this bloody rocket. Oh, I just think this is lower decks firing on all cylinders because all the jokes aside, all the crazy plots aside. It's about the people, and this pushes that right to the front in a really, really touching way. It's been announced, I think, since we last did lower decks that the 5th series of lower decks is coming up later this year and that it's the last one that it will end after 5 series. And it's the sort of thing that they could always bring back. It's not like striking the sets means it's going to be expensive to remount or whatever, but it's going to kind of stop for the time being. And I have to say that I'm really going to miss it because I think it's wonderful and I absolutely love that core team of 4 people and particularly just on the last rewatch of this episode. I was just reminded how much I loved Handy and I don't know how many people's favourite character, she's not the 2 big ones Boimler or Mariner. You know, it's her and Rutherford or the other pair. But she is so great and she has such a great cartoon character voice and there's those little moments that she has where she has little moments of hysteria and stuff and she's so funny and so wonderful. Like her enthusiasm is just wonderful. It should be annoying. Boy, isn't it? She's just so great. I just love her so much. She might be my favourite character. You know what they could do? They could do a reverse. Remember when the series 3 ended and they said it was too expensive to make the sets. So they did the animated series. They might come back and say, well, to draw these people anymore. We'll just build sets and make live action lower decks, which I would be absolute. I don't think it's a bad call ending it after 5 seasons because I wonder if the joke could wear a bit thin if it went on and on and on. And it just means we've got 5 really consistent seasons of lower decks that we can cherish. And this is stuff I know you watch this over and over again where if you're having a tough day, you can just put on 25 minutes of these joyful characters in these insane situations and it puts a smile on your face. And it's Star Trek. You know, like I love Star Trek. You and I have talked about a lot of Star Trek now. episode number is this? Numbers, man. 114? We talked about wasting our lives, just a few episodes back. And we know that every other Star Trek show that we talked about has consistency issues, shall we say? Yes, you know? We haven't done a bad lower decks. I'm not sure there is a bad lower decks. And that's that's something for this show to be proud of, I think. I think I think there are lesser and greater episodes that are more important episodes. There are funnier episodes. The peanut hamper, the 2nd episode was just an absolute joy. Why do we never roll that one? I always want that one to come. But yeah, just in terms of from beginning to end being a really good show, Bravo, lower decks. Yeah, it's pretty great. All right, I'm going to count us in. I'm going to prepare to laugh for 25 minutes, so anyone who doesn't like that sort of thing. Depart now. All right. Okay, here goes. Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off. I was trying to think who my favourite character is when you said that then. I think Boimler might be my favourite character just because he's... He tries so hard. He gets the funniest line of this episode. It's absolutely my favourite moment I was roaring out loud. All right, now watch the ticket. This is Sylvia Ront, who is covering this thing. Admiral Jellicoe band Zebulon sisters from active duty starships. I'm not sure who they are, but there was Admiral Jellicoe getting a mention. There's Packled Planet. Solar Knights, Eclip, London Kings in game, one of EL as yet, well not sure what that means. No idea what that is, but there's a six-year-old Zactor, and the youngest to be crowned, Stratagema, uh, champion, grand Milestar. Strategma. Yeah, yeah, from I can't remember what it is. It's a P performance, isn't it? And that guy is his actor, the guy with the lumpy cheeks. And this country stampede, dozen teens injured rushing stage at Sonny Clemens concert. He is the guy who they unfreeze on board the Botany Bay in the neutral zone. Oh, my God. That is a deep dive. He goes on to have a massive country music career. Can I ask, what is the cat doctor's name? There's that bit there where they were in shades. and she's telling them to fuck off. But she just goes, wow. Oh, wait. So one of the problems with things being easy to replicate is that when Mariner loses her shit, she can just smash... They say true. Why do you keep having smashable things in your house? He goes, I don't know if I want it. Oh, she goes, why do you have this bridge here? People don't drive cars anymore. I like the bridge, don't you like the bridge? But have you ever noticed that before? Have you ever thought that? Watching the films? The original films? I mean, that is... Pointing out all those things about 90s trek than we never noticed. So what's interesting here. This is our 1st view, I think, of, is he called Bonamigo? Admiral Bonamigo, who is the... Uh, Buen amigo, Spanish is very good. He's the villain who has created the Texas class starships that play into the finale of this season. So he's actually a bad guy. Uh, and Mariners, uh, Father is played by Phil Lamar, who is a lot of people in um, Futurama, and he's actually a cartoon voice actor who, basically everything. Got A-less actors to do these roles, didn't they, in low days? But what they've done, what they haven't done is they haven't got just A-list actors who aren't good at, you know, cartoon comedy acting. Like, that's a definite skill. You know, just, you know, calling David Schwimmer's agent and getting him to play someone that's super boring, but you get people who are good at cartoon voices. And so these are proper cartoon voices where everyone's slightly childish, slightly saturated. You talked about Carol Freeman and the performance that Dawn Lewis does in that role. I mean she's great. They've got to be able to pace the dialogue as well, because it's so fast, isn't it? Yeah. But just slightly hiked. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Visually and orally in this show. Oh, we cut to a vineyard, which is a terrible rip on Picard obviously. And Boimless surrounded by these beautiful women that are effectively throwing themselves at him and he just keeps telling them to go kick the grapes. That's right. He keeps telling them to go away. keeps ignoring them. And it's, you know, those things, we saw those things watering Shadow Picard in Star Trek Picard. Like, it's not just a reference. the final episode. He's wearing the he's wearing the hat from all good things. He's another woman. Do you want to taste the sweetness of one bushel? No, the funniest one is the woman who goes, I'm covered in all this sticky juice. And he goes, I'll just go and go and hose yourself down. No, that's the funniest line. Because she says, can you help me get naked? And he says, hold yourself flattened down, Leanne. Like, it's so funny. So great. Yeah, he's always trying to fucking attract women on the surreal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but he's not interested in these ones for some reason. Look at his face. so uninteresting. I mean, that would be my reaction if I'm honest. But I mean, it's also, it's also that Picard makes wine and his family makes raisins, which are like just the shittest thing ever. It's like you just take fruit, perfectly good fruit, and then shrivel it out until it's shrivelled up. Who thought of that? It's so bad. I hate raisins. They're shockingly bad. Yeah, dreadful. Oh, I do, you know. Oh, dude. Oh, bless you. Of course he's going to come along. Of course he is. He's our best friend. He's Leanne. It's coming. It's coming. So they've got to get to the Cerrito switches in DryDoc, but they don't know where it is, but obviously, obviously Rutherford's going to be able to help them find it. Um, and here, Brad, when I'm stoked in juice, and I need help getting naked. I can't just spray off with ice, Leanne. Fuck it's funny. Here we are, Cisco's. We haven't been here since. Oh, yes. Since Imogen is science. Image in the sand, yeah. It looks exactly the same in animation. Yeah. Yeah. It's got a dish of gumbo there. Joseph Cisco's fabulous gumbo. And he's wearing one of Jake Cisco's jump. I know it's not. It's exactly the same as the one who wears the purple with that dreadful pattern on it. It's so, isn't it? I love the fact there's an Andorian beyond there, just enjoying dinner with his lady friend. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not Jenny. Jennifer. It does remind me. What was lovely about that set was all the foliage around, you know, making it feel a bit more. But just the warm light, too. I think he's wearing something that Jake wore as well, if memory alphas to be believed boiler is wearing something too. You see here where Marino waits to get her line in. She literally says she's been waiting outside the door to come in and say that line. I'll do that all the time. you know, wait for your moment. Make your entrance. Oh, catch yourself hot, white sauce. So, why not? And again, because Bradwood's a white guy. He just has one drop of it and he's like fainting and stuff and Marin is just pouring tons of it into her food. She's still pouring it. She has a little mouthful and she goes, oh, it's got a bit of a kick. Is she? So cute. The whole scene. Poor Boyemler is literally apoplectic there. Pouring there down his neck. So, this is strange. It's so good, isn't it? It's so much fun They're doing a little heist, you know, and they're defeated by the fact that the guy is just a sweetheart which is kind of adorable. Yeah. I love the fact that this massive espionage plot involving the Pac Meds is taking place at exactly the same time right now. You know, we're tittling around trying to nick this fairground ride. It's it's actually kind of good because Marin is wrong here, isn't she? That Starfleet does do the right thing. There is something about it. You would think normally a TV show that says no, just trust in the legal system. Everything's going to be fine. That's always wrong. isn't it? That's always wrong in every TV show. But in a Star Trek TV show, it can be right because this is a sort of, you know, utopia and these people are clever and stuff like that. Pre-programmed, though, because the 2nd he said, trust the system and I was like, no, they're going to do the Rona thing, you know. Mind you, maybe I've watched a few too many sort of discovery DS9s where Starfleet is not always as Lily White as it makes itself out to be. This fella, who looks like Santa Claus, with his little walking stick. He's in charge of all the old transporter pads. And the Joker's buffer buff. The Joker is that, I was just such a lovely old man. I would never hurt you. No, because they were going to knock him out, tie him up, and then use the transport. No way. He's like my grandpa. And then he goes, do you want a butterscotch? Just like April, old man. Very good. And then he crashed the car. There's an outfit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh bless. He does look a bit like Santa Claus, did he? Yes. So he's the same guy who will go on to play Gavin later in the episode. Bobby Moynihan, who is also a comedian and a comic character. I used a joy with these cartoon series, isn't it? Obviously, your voice is very dextrous. You can play all these different roles. Not like an actor where your face is your face and yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. No, that is kind of fun, but they also do get like proper, you know, they get old Star Trek people. Obviously, James Cromwells in this episode. But they also just get comedians and stuff to be in it too, which is pretty great. Now, it is worth noting that we've heard about this pink field that's going to be surrounding the planet ever since the news at the start of the episode. Yeah. And now this lovely old man reminds us about it again. Now this, there is something about the music for 1st contact. Like, I almost choke up a little bit at this moment because the music for 1st contact just absolutely comes in. There's the statue of Zefron Cochrane that freaks Cochrane out, you know, where he runs away because Geordie's described the statue that's just over here at that point. So we actually get to see it. We get to see the bar with its famous one song jukebox because presumably the film only licensed that one song. So James Cromwell keeps playing it all the time in the film. The Vulcan ship that came down for 1st contact. They've turned into a ride covered in swings. I'm very often certain that it's just a replica. I mean, in the future, I hope this is true, you know, that they have real space shuttles going up, you know, for kids. Yeah, great fun. And he's James Cromwell on the on the tally. and I think Rutherford and Tandy have gone and bought themselves special James Cromwell hats as well. What are they eating? Are those churros? Juros, yeah. Yeah, they get them down quick. No, well, they have to. And that's part of the joke is, you know, Rutherford delivering this dialogue through his chewed guro. He's Gavin at the back. This thing in a minute is so true, this joke about this, um, 5th person that comes on the shuttle. It always happens on Rise for Me. I'm usually the one that's, okay, fine. I'll sit on my own and then I'll get some bloody loser sitting next to me vomiting. Do we see him again, this bloke? No, no, no. He just goes off into the galaxy at the end of the episode. Oh no, he's arrested, I think, at the end of the episode. That it. We do see him go off, look. James Cromwell's octagonal green CD player. Just fantastic. Oh, I love it when they start hijacking the show. That's like the enterprise. That's like the opening credits of the enterprise, that shot. That's just... Oh, and the song here kicks in and I'm just like, man, this is just the best time. Hanging out with these characters. Listening to rock music. We're in a rocket. Come on. But, you know, like just that 1st contact music, the one that they used at the end of Picard series 3 is so good. Like so incredibly good. Uh, you know, better than the original Star Trek, the Next Generation theme by a mile. I just found... You couldn't get much worse, you know? No, I know. We would have learned to love it. Had it been the UTSP theme shoot. I'm sure. He looks like a big baby, that kid, didn't he? I like these. The sales coming out in the rocket. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty good. I thought you should get hard on the technology, but that just looks great. Looks great, doesn't it? Look so good. All right. They're leaving Gavin behind. Here we go. To the Cerritos in Dry Dock. They all look the same, didn't they? Like a clawed hands coming down and grabbing the ship. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's that McKinley station thing from Star Trek the Next Generation, isn't it? And they don't they don't deviate because it's something that we recognise as fans, you know? They could draw something fabulous. Why would they, you know? No, no, no, that's right. That's kind of part of the thing. I say, he's going to go off into space now, all on his own. Yep, yep. This is my ship now, he says. Geese Captain Gavin. Gavin the pilot, Gavin. I mean, well chosen. So good. You know any Gavins? No, not since primary school. I used to know Gavin and he made up a song called Chicken Legs. I'll never forget it my whole life but I won't sing it to you now. Here we go now. It's like Ocean's 11 with spaceships. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's terribly cute. We just are about to get the bit where, uh, um, is it here? Boemler says that he's run out of purple hair dye and he can't let people know that the real colour of his hair is and then we switch to something else. So, it's always that sort of thing. Is his hair really purple and we do know that it's purple now because we've actually seen him on Star Trek. Do you know what? didn't they get it perfect? His hair in that episode... There was no mistaken who that was. Oh my goodness, that was so good. I can't wait for us to do that one, Nathan. I can't wait. Gee, it was enjoyable. It was just terrifically good. Yeah, and it's probably the only time we'll ever have live action lower decks. Oh, yeah, got it right. They got it right. Yeah, they really did. Oh, I like the bit in a minute. I'm not sure maybe it's just yet where she really starts panicking because she thinks she can't save her mum. And it all just bleeds through while she's really doing this. Yeah, she's angry to her point and then she just lets the emotion see through. Yeah. Also, there's that kind of we get a whole heap of cartoon violence and stuff because, you know, she's trying to rescue her mother and they're kind of trying to rescue her so she doesn't get in trouble for trying to rescue her mother. You know, they don't want her to take the rap for stealing the ship and sort of heading off to Klingon space or whatever. Um, it's, it's nice. You know, like it's silly and, you know, absolute sort of cartoony and things. But it just sells that relationship between everyone. But what I adore is, is a, um, God, I forget, I almost forget her mother's name, Freeman says, I love you for what you did for me. However, there are consequences. And then that leads into the next episode with it is a wonderful premise. Well, you take the rest of the season, in fact. how they start to respect each other. It's just beautiful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, look how big they look on the screen. It reminds me of the Ferengi in the last outpost. I see, she's going to go off and do it herself, though. Oh, bless her. She is all noise and violence and all of that, but she really cares. And you know, I was getting a bit of a lump in my throat watching. And I'm like, this is absurd with these costume characters. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I was too. I just thought the end of it was actually really sort of terribly sweet. There's a couple of times in the run where I think it's pro, maybe it's moving a structure it gets. you know? But it's because you care about the people. Exactly. Exactly. Even though it's sort of ridiculous It does lean into a conversation that you and I have had many, many times about, you know, artificial people. Why are they any different from fleshy people and cartoon people? Why are they any different from live action people? It's it's, people in books. Do you know what I mean? Like people, like we care about the people in our media, you know? But do you think some people would write this off just because it is a cartoon, like Star Trek fans, I mean? because it's a comedy. Well, I think that's the other problem that it poses for Star Trek fans is that because if they see Star Trek is depicting a coherent future world, then when very, very ridiculous things happen in that world, that makes the world ridiculous. Do you know what I mean? Oh, it makes the world bearable. Well, I think it makes the world better. Do you know what I mean? Like much better. It's a great thing. And, you know, it's not like there aren't plenty of ridiculous things in live action Star Trek anyway. You know, that's part of the point. coherent anyway. We've been watching original Star Trek episodes that completely contradict things that are told in 90s trek and beyond. No. So if Star Trek's a type of TV show and it is, and it's the type of TV show that we like, it's actually quite fun to see Star Trek do different genres. You know, we've talked about Deep Space 9 doing sitcoms or, you know, like heists or whatever and just out and out comedies as well. You know, we've done comedies. It's a surprisingly malleable format, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But is it because this is an entire, this is an entire Star Trek series as a comedy? Outrageous. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And and I also think too, that makes a problem for people who like Strange New Worlds, because Strange New Worlds is quite Trad in a lot of ways, but it's not Trad, I think, in the way that some of the fans wanted it to be. It's still very queer. There's still more women than men in the regular cast and... like you know, it's not being made in the 60s. No, that's right. And, you know, it's topped and tailed with cartoon scenes with Rutherford and Tandy at the beginning, and then with the crew of lower decks, you know, at the end. Even I realised even I had my limit, though, when those Klingons came up and started singing that boy band song. I was like, 0 my god. That was Hammer. I've reached the end. This is too much. But yeah, no, that's just personal taste. But there, that bit there where you just saw the tears in her eyes and she broke down on the floor. It's so, so sad. Oh, that's right. Of course, Tendi can pretend that they're doing a biological survey. you know, it's all science, you know. But when she takes over, she has that little moment of kind of hysteria. Do you know what I mean? That little sort of strange moment where she's does the sort of high voice slightly out of control thing, which I just think is so funny. It's one of my favourite things that she does. I love it as well. Don't you love her look? She's got that sort of shape on me, not shaved, but it looks shaved at the back of her head. She reminds me a bit of these, the con office, sorry, Strange New Worlds. What's her name? Erica. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That sort of very, very cool looking. Yeah, slightly it's slightly queer looking too, isn't it? This is taking this out of Elosium with all of these, you know, how do we say it? Oh, the things come to have sex with Voyager. These massive sperms that they're currently tangling with. Well, that's what it is. Well, they wouldn't say it in Voyager, you know, they yeah, they sticks up their butt, so they wouldn't just say, oh, it's a load of cum, basically, you know. No, it's an orgy, isn't it, taking place on the Harlow Versaritos? They've found, you know, they're reproducing, they've found carbon or something like that, and they're all just having sex on them more explicit about it, and I like that. You know, we've loosened up a bit. in the intervening years. I mean, look at the giant sperm tales coming around them. I know, I know. I fucking love that cat doctor. Look at her in Beverly Crusher's coat. so funny. Oh, yes, of course. But I mean, the great thing about that too, is that Carol arrives to save Mariner. Yeah, here's the here's what we didn't see. Oh, look, that's a... No who? It's Captain Bateson, Captain Bateson from Cause and Effect. Section 31 on the Packers Planet. Ah yeah. Faked evidence of Freeman. There was actually a pack led, a space battle. We missed all of this. in the Romulan. Oh, Tuvok doing a mind meld? I mean, I'm not going to lie, Nathan. That episode looks amazing. But she says it was a huge reveal. Do you know what I mean? Because it was an episode. You know, that was the big reveal. That's how that's how Carol refers to it. A classic pack-led Samaritan snare. I can't believe they said Samara. And then look at them all. You've got the whole crew standing there like at the end of Star Wars, everyone applauding them. That's right. In fact, that's a really brilliant way of reinforcing the premise for the 1st episode of a new series as well. This is what these guys get up to while a proper Star Trek is happening, a proper Star Trek episode is happening. is the premise of the show, basically, isn't it? But in a wonderful visual gag. That just makes you long to see the other episode as well. You're never going to see it, all right? Tandy wasn't in the other episode. We got the better deal. I think they realised they were onto a good thing with this because all of our core characters, the lower deckers are really wonderful, but I think they realised very quickly that actually the upper deckers were great characters as well. And so as the show goes on, we explore both sets of characters in a great way. Well, I mean, the 4 of them, aren't they, the 4 of them? So Freeman, Ransom, Shacks and Tana are all in the opening credits like their names are in the opening credits. So it's those 4 and our 4 lower deckers, isn't it? They're the 8 people whose names. So it was, I think, always intended to be them, but yes, they were in other rooms doing exciting things that our guys would never find out about. I mean, I'll never forget the cat doctor and the sex episode where she was going around clawing at everybody. Do you remember Aaron Sharks? I don't know what they were getting up to. What about the one where they were having sex in the holiday? There's a couple of them, actually. One where Boimlet is moved into another crew quarters because he's a lieutenant and... You are missing out on all this fun. So great. Look at what good time we're having. Come on, you could be having this time as well. What is that ransom saying, I'm your mama now? I love... I know I've said it. I love her performance. I think the actress playing Freeman is so great. Someone that sort of anchors it, you need someone that's serious but it's still sort of playing it, like you said, in that cartoony way. Yeah, yeah. Just slightly bigger. Okay, so Picard was trying to solve Fermat's last theorem in an episode of season two, I think, but then Fermat's last theorem has actually since been solved. But he was still trying to solve it in the 23rd century for some reason. I think they named the noons around Jupiter at one point in the 80s as well, and since then, several 100,000 have been discovered. Don't worry about that. Tobin Dax also tried, I think, to say to solve Fermat's last theorem. It worth saying that the kid does look a bit Wesley Crusher-ish as well. Dreadful haircut. And of course, we talked over Gavin being arrested by some people in a runabout as well, still going crazy and, you know, insisting it's his ship, bless him. I do really love... I do really love the fact that obviously Mari needs to be punished for what she's done because she stole a shuttle, you know, broke lots of rules and didn't trust in the system and all of that. And they realise that we're your parents and you're never going to listen to us. We're in these authority roles for you. So then she hands him over to help me out. Ransom? Ransom. She goes, because we are going to take none of your shit. It's a great solution as well because those 2 have had a fracturous relationship ever since the 1st season. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's really fun seeing them work together. It's really great. So it just promises more laughs to come. I think that's wonderful. I think it's really, it's a far story. So it doesn't hang around anywhere too long for you to get bored but it just always puts the characters first. And I think the best episodes are low. I think the weaker ones or the the less good ones are the ones where it's all sort of premise and there's just light character stuff going on, but these ones where you really get up close with them and you see the bond between them. That's the best of this show, I think, by a mile. And that's absolutely what this one's about, isn't it? It's about reestablishing those relationships, I think, after some time off and I just think it's really terrific. Just bringing the crew back together. Weirdly enough, given it's uh, a sequel to the last season, you know, it's tied up all of those bits, because it did end on a great cliffhanger series too with her being taken away. Oh, yeah. I think you could probably pick up the show here and quite happily understand exactly what lower decks is all about and just watch it from this point on. This was your, you know, your 1st episode. Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's intention. And that bit at the end, you know, the snapshots of the other. That's just them laying out the premise one more time, just in case nobody was paying attention. Absolutely brilliant. I have to say, Nathan, that, or I'm sure we'll do plenty of other Star Trek between now and the next time we do lower decks, but none of it will be as enjoyable. Yeah, I love it too. Well, it's the end of the episode, and it's time for us to work out what we are doing next. I chose this one because I have impeccable taste, but it's time for the rains of the randomiser to return to you. So let us know what you're going to pick. It's been far too long since we last went on a journey with Captain Kirk and Crew. We're heading back to the original series. Obviously, we just had great fun with Lower Decks, and we generally always have fun with TOS as well. So let's keep the thread of fun going. Okay. Let's press the button. Oh, one we've already done. Season two, episode six, the superb doomsday machine. Yep, that was great. One we've already done. Season three, episode six, the Superb Spectre of the Garden. Oh, wow. Okay. Ooh, that's an early one. Season one, episode three, where no man has gone before. So this is actually the 2nd pilot. Isn't it? No, the man trap's a 2nd pilot, isn't it? No, the matchup's the 1st episode, but where no man has gone before doesn't have McCoy in it, and it has Gary Mitchell, who has been referenced recently, I think, in Discovery. Um, so it's, it's different. It's not quite Star Trek as you remember it, we do get to see Captain Kirk's Tombstone with James R. Kirk on it. So it's before he was James Tiberius Kirk. And it also features, does it feature the galactic barrier? I think that's the episode where the galactic barrier comes from. You know, I'm not sure I want to watch an episode without McCoy in it, though, you know. The last couple we've done. Really haven't featured him much at all. Yeah, it's strange. It's not quite Star Trek because you remember it. I do remember the guy with the creepy powers, his eyes. He was quite the scale. Charlie X, isn't it? Oh, no, no, no, the wrong episode. You might be thinking of Charlie X. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, let's press again then. Oh no, let's do this. Yeah, let's do this. I remember this being very well directed. Season one, episode 25. The Devil in the Dark. Oh, that's an absolute classic. It's really hang up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's proper Star Trek, too, in a really, you know, like sort of this early on, but they actually nail what Star Trek's about in all sorts of ways. I think it's really good. I'd love to see it again. That's a great show. They do some interesting innovations with the special effects on that one as well. Plus Leonard Nemoy, you know, telepathic contact with an alien. With a big rock. It's brilliant. Oh, let's do it. Awesome, awesome. That's brilliant. Can't wait. You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley. We're online at untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts. Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lam. This episode was recorded on the 4th of June 2024 and released on the 14th of June. We'll see you next time for Star Trek, the original series, The Devil in the Dark. Since we last recorded, discovery ended, which happened and was a thing, in a longer episode... And I saw, I did see snippets of the episode, you know, I just watched a few bits to see, well, is it going to end in pure triumph? Now, did you watch the...? Because they did this weird thing. I watched the last 10 minutes. so they leap ahead. But, and it's a weird, like, it's how you expect, like, it, it's it is an epilogue, you know, like, it's not really part of the previous episode, it does, like, the previous episode ends on the sort of themes that you would expect original, like, you would expect discovery to end on because it's all about loving one another and blah, blah, blah. But, um, But, like, we'd had, like, O O and Debt, were barely in it. They're in an episode where they sort of travel back, they travel in time to sort of random points in Discovery's history in a sort of high concept time episode, and so they're obviously in that. But they're there to sell that it's the past. And, you know, the thing is that Discovery is the longest running Star Trek TV series. What, in terms of how many years? Yeah Yeah. Certainly not in running. No, no. But because because of COVID and because of the rider's strike, it had that big gap. And so clearly they have trouble getting people back for series 5. And so they get a Dira and they get Tilly back full time, they lose Saru, who is in a couple of episodes at the beginning and a couple of episodes at the end. And, you know, we end series 5 proper on Saru and Tarina getting married, which is just absolutely adorable and a wonderful way to end. don't blame these actors getting other work in another... They can't hang around forever waiting to make the last... No, exactly right. And I think that they made the right decision. You know, that before it just stopped being quite the show that we'd been used to. They just sort of decided, we're going to have difficulty getting these people back regularly. Let's just end it. And so what they do is they do that sort of 20 minute scene or 15 minute scene at the end where it's the future. And it, it's really, like I liked it quite a lot, you know, like book, like just getting book and Michael together, which is nice. You know, the season starts with them, sort of estranged, and getting back together in a nice way, and that was sort of sweet and, you know, they're on a planet that looks a bit like Quaishon you know. Um, and they've got a handsome son and stuff like that. But what they're doing is they're sending discovery off, uh, and you know, they re, they do it up so that it looks like it used to. Did you notice that? They're in space dog, like, you know, they were in this episode and you see a scene of the dots rubbing the A off, you know, the thing. And so they make it look like it did in season 2 because they're dropping it off to prepare for the short trek calypso to happen. And I think the short track Calypso is the best of the short tracks. I think it's magnificent. It's beautiful and sad and lyrical and it's a sort of romance between, um, I think it's called Tricky, like a man called Tricky who has a wife and kid, but he's kind of travelling and Zora. It's the 1st time we see Zora, and we know that it's the 31st century or the 32nd century. We know that the ship's deserted and suddenly the, it's the 1st time we see Zora. We see Zora later when the show goes into the future, but this short trek was made before the show ever went into the future. Yeah, it's beautiful. It's stunning. And they didn't need to do that. They didn't need to kind of tie it up in that way. But it did give Michael a chance to say goodbye to Discovery, and it just gave us the big group hug that, you know, that show was always going to end with. With all those people back. From what I've heard, because I know Mark Donaldson quite well. He does the Dr. Hoop podcast in the time lash and he writes for screen rant, so he writes Star Trek reviews for an online resource. And it's sort of I've been asking him because he's been watching it and I've been obviously talking to you as well. And his sort of opinion was, it's been a good last year. It's been solid. But it hasn't been triumphant in the way that, say, Picard series 3 was, which was a huge last hurrah, you know, into the sunset. This was good telly and very watchable and you, like you said, you can clearly see the cars coming in and out. I just wonder if that's a sad note for a show that came in so willing to make ripples, you know, and be like, right, we're different. This is the Star Trek you're used to, and you might not like it but bloody hell, we're gonna, we're gonna shock your system a bit. I think that... Am I wrong with that? I think that's exactly what I missed with it because like that's what I loved about Star Trek discovery when it 1st turned up. It looked just absolutely fucking incredible. You'd never seen Star Trek in the cinema or on television that looked anything like it. It looked magnificent. It was taking risks. It was doing strange things. It was telling the story from a completely different point of view. It looked like it was a Star Trek series, but it was just a series set in the Star Trek universe. You know, we've made that distinction before. And then gradually it gets its kind of, it loses its edge in two which I think is a massive apology tour, and it says, we'll try and be much more better behaved Star Trek. You know, we get Pike and his, you know, dad, space dad being, you know, making everyone be sensible and stuff like that. And then we go to the future. And I think 3 is really good and weird in a good way, and they're struggling to make this new show, but they've found a way of making it look even more visually distinct from any other Star Trek we've ever seen. It gives the chance for Michael to chill out as well. Like all of that stuff is really great. Series 4 is a triumph. And 5 is we've learned how to make this now, and so it no longer has the edge, I think, that it once had. It's where TNG got, wasn't it? Like we said, TNG started off being risky and bumpy and terrible Kenny. But trying, trying lots of things, you know, and seeing precisely why they don't work. Yeah. But Troy in. And then and then 3 comes along and they're clearly they've learned how to make this now and they're producing great work and then eventually it gets to a point where it's like, okay, yeah we're making good telly. Well, we ain't take those risks anymore. We're not trying new things. And I'm wondering if this is a good place to say goodbye before it just gets too safe because I think we're it's heading there. Yeah I think so. Like, this is a sort of fairly standard quest with clues and stuff like that. So it's a sort of, you know, in Doctor Who terms, it's like the key to time season. They're finding things. And I think the final conclusion that we come to is a fairly predictable one. And we get some really spectacular stuff, like just amazing visuals in that final episode at the very beginning. Yeah, when I was sort of skipping through it, I was going, yeah yeah, really trippy weird stuff, you've got 2 new characters who are quite good in Moll and Locke. You get the Breen as an adversary who are visually, really spectacular and super interesting. They always pull them out in the last season, didn't they? Yeah, we learn a lot more about the brain, you know, and we, you know, we see a character without their helmet on. We learn what they look like for the 1st time without ruining them. Do you know what I mean? without making them dumb. One thing that really stood out to me watching, because I, you know, was going to always going to watch the last scene. Because, and you know me, I'm not a massive DevoC of discovery. So watching that last season was never going to ruin my enjoyment watching the last season. And I, so I watched from when you, you see Michael in the future in the garden with all the red leagues around and all of that right up until the end. And I was like, okay, so this show is ending where it began with its focus on Michael Burnham. And it really hasn't left that stance all the way through. My issue is, obviously, you know I don't find her the most interesting of characters. I love the, I think she's a terrific actress, but I think some mistakes were made along the way, um, with all the weepiness and all that. And I know you, yeah, she does have moments where she's very fun and we've seen her in that wonderful episode where she was down on a planet and having a laugh and when she's drugged to the eyeballs in series 3, episode one. All very funny. Um, So I think, I basically think your reaction to discovery as a whole is your reaction to Michael Byrne as a character. See, for me, because it's her journey. I don't think there's ever been a Star Trek show that has been so focussed on one show, one character from beginning to end. It's a long move. Maybe deep space nine. Although that's more of an ensemble, but you know, Discovery's an ensemble as well. And when Michael becomes the captain, she is a very collaborative captain who lets people do things and, you know, isn't threatened you know, like is collaborative, you know, I think she's really good. I just think that Sanequa is so beautiful. Like, just if the show's about her and her face is in shot and the smile, that smile and just the... Even in that dreadful old age makeup. She had gorgeous. Oh, H makeup is actually surprisingly good. in high death. It was subtle for once, but she's just so beautiful and so, so charismatic. And then in real life, she's, if anything, even more stunning and just wonderful. Like I just love her so much as an actress, I think she's really great. And yeah, we did have that problem with a lot of gloopy crying and shit in series 2, but they did kind of read. Oh my god. That's been a lot of creepy crime for a while. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But fortunately, I saw a balance there. Series 2 was kind of the high points of it, I think. But I just think she's... I've got a theory, you know. I've got a theory they've presented her with one of those dreadful latex masks, you know, like the man in 2 short a seasons. She went, I'm not wearing that. Jesus Christ. Just put a few wrinkles around me eyes. I'm gorgeous. That's just not how I'm going out in discovery. I think that old old age makeup has to be better now because the cameras are so much less forgiving, you know, like... And so you, it just has to be subtle. I thought it worked really well. We still have seen some dreadful examples of Curtis when Shrek ain't that good? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. they don't do it all. But you know what? I mean, even though Discovery, it's probably my least favourite Star Trek show, animated series aside. Enterprise. Yeah, yeah, enterprise. No, probably my 2nd... But even I would say, I love the fact that it metamorphs every season into something new. I think that's really refreshing. I think Tilly is wonderful. I think Giorgio is one of the best things that ever happened to Star Trek. absolutely hilarious. I, you know, I love that dive into the alternative universe. I thought it felt very refreshed when it went into the future and that 1st half of series 3 where we're exploring all the races that we know, but in a way that we don't know them was really great. The true episode there was awesome. The one on Saru's home planet in series two. There's been some absolute standout episodes. So even within a show that I've been less than impressed with. I think there's gold in there. And it's worth celebrating. Yeah. And it's how they learn to make Star Trek, you know, how they learn to make Star Trek again. And look at what came of it. I mean, you know, Stranger Worlds is just spun off discovery series too. The weakest season of discovery at least gave us Strange New World and that cast, Rebecca Romayne, you know, Ethan Peck, and Beautiful Anson Mount. you know, it's pretty pretty amazing. Sacrificed the time we spent watching Discovery series 2. Just for that scene where the gore ripped out of that blue man in that fabulous... It was worth the sacrifice. And I think, as Jonathan Frakes said in an interview this week, you know, it's discovery and he's very clear on this. He won't. I am not taking any questions. Discovery reinvigorated. It set fire out of this franchise again. And look at everything that came out of it. Lower deck, prodigy, you know, if discovery had been a flop. Yeah, then they wouldn't have been doing more. They certainly wouldn't have been doing 5 shows at once. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was there in the 2nd last episode, wheeling the camera around like an absolute fucking bastard. You would have been proud of him. So fucking annoying.