The Devil in the Dark

Hey, Joe. Hi. So, we have hurtled back absolute decades since our last episode and we find ourselves all the way back in the very 1st year of Star Trek. This is towards the end of Star Trek season one and it's Devil in the Dark. And it's written by Gene L. Coon, who we already know sort of fell out with Roddenbury kind of midway through series 2, but he's basically responsible for a massive amount of what Star Trek is and is about even, you know, in this modern era. And it's really, really, really properly good, I think, this episode. This is devil in the dark, which doesn't seem to, you know, make anyone sort of top 5 episodes. Uh, but maybe it should. one of the best ones we've seen. Yeah, I've noticed at the start of these TOS episodes, you know you give us a little preamble and then you, with the TOS ones, you either say it's really, really good or it's really, really bad. We haven't had a lot of middle ground with TOS, have we? We sort of gone one way or the other. Maybe. I mean, the most recent one we did was Obsession, which I think is very mid. It has some great moments and stuff like that. Yeah, I thought it was okay. Troubles with triples we've done, the doomsday machine. We've done some great ones. Spectra of the gun. Spectra and a gun was gorgeous. Mind you, we've done Scott's brain as well. Wolf and the Fold, some absolute turkeys. After watching Devil in the Dark, you know, I've got a strange feeling that this franchise might run at least 60 years. That's how good it will do. It could well do. I thought it was really great. Just terrific performances from the regulars, but just a proper script that is really Star Trek in all sorts of interesting ways. I think that does surprising things that only Star Trek does, I think. But with an instant, brilliant concept of there's something down in the tunnels that's killing people. But just anyone watching TV, not just Star Trek fans, not just science fiction. Anyone could just put that on and go, oh, what's it going to be you know, as people are being murdered horribly and we're seeing that all from their POV. Like, I just feel like they knew how to make good telly in season one DOS. Something happened later on down the line. I've got to ask you a question, though. Something I've been pondering actually in the week is, you know when you watch these TOS episodes, is there anywhere in the back of your mind that all of those strange new worlds have already occurred and all of those enterprise episodes have already occurred before? Because it is in mind now. Now we're sort of jumping about. I'm like, oh God, Archer's already done all of his stuff, isn't he Adelphic Expanse? The Gaul have been tearing their way out of people in strange new worlds and here we are in the 3rd Star Trek series, Star Trek. Well, Discovery, season one and 2 are before this as well, aren't they? Oh, of course, yeah. No wonder this is well honed by this point. That's right I literally never think that because I'm absolutely you know, interested in the order in which all of this stuff reaches us rather than, you know, the number of the star date or whatever for when it said. It makes sense though, right? You know, enterprise is absolutely tedious for the most part. So obviously, naturally, that's where Star Trek began. You know, it's finding its speed. Then we move on to Discovery, series one and two, you know, where it's sort of getting there. It's looking a bit more like good telly. And then, obviously, strangely, Welles hits and we're flying now baby. And then finally we get to the original series where we've done some absolute bangers. TV gold. I think maybe that's fair. That's probably a fair history. That's, uh, that's why we should write a memory alpha page. No one wants to read that. What really shocks me is when we watch these TOS episodes and they're lit and directed better than all this other stuff that comes later. I'm truly astonished about that, but they just had some very talented people working on the show at the time. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think this is, I think this is magnificent because even though it does start as a horror movie with monsters attacking and killing people. It literally ends in a way that absolutely kind of epitomises what Star Trek is for... I think only Star Trek could probably get away with this as well. Like, Spock mind melding with the creature, this duvet, and Leonard Nemoy, who gives a heroic performance in this when he's externalising the pain of what the horter goes from, and you really feel it. And there's no hint of embarrassment in his performance at all. No, absolutely. I could almost see Shatner going, oh, Leonard, are you really gonna do this? And then Nimoy going, you watch is still going to be the best bit of action you've seen all year. it. I mean, Shatner's amazing in it as well. Like, really, properly good in it. So is DeForest Kelly. My God. I'm starting to feel as if I can cure a rainy day. He says I love... I'm a doctor, not a bricklayer. Absolutely brilliant. Like absolutely superb. But it is worth knowing once again. No other fucker exists on the Enterprise bar, these 3 and Scotty beaming down for like a couple of scenes. But they're so great together. Who cares? Yeah. Yeah. No, this is top quality stuff. This might be my favourite episode of TOS that we've done so far. I think it is really good. Yeah, probably good. It's definitely out there. I mean, I would certainly put this in my top 5 ever of TOS. In terms of its execution, in terms of its acting, but just like you said, how it morphs from your traditional horror movie into what's effectively like if you people were just communicating with each other. Yeah, yeah. No one would be dead and there'd be more, what's the substance called? I can't remember. Jurarillium? We'll see when we're going to next. There would be plenty of that to go around all the planets you're supplying. Exactly, you know? It's got a wonderful moral at its heart. And a kind of simple solution, but getting there is tough, you know? So the journey of the episode is just really gripping to watch. Ah, it's wonderful. What do you think? I think we should go in. Let's do it. Let's watch it. All right. This is the 2nd time I've watched it today, you know, and I can't wait. I'll count it in. Five, four, three, two, one and we're off. So did you watch the original version? Or did you watch the movie? I'm watching the new one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So this planet is much more realistic. And this, this is very similar. don't you think? very similar to the map painting. Well, I could see that on the screen. I could see the map painting behind you. Yeah, I found the original Matt painting. But just how beautiful this set is. Look at it. Like, it's just a shitty cave set. Think about the 1000000s of fucking times they use that... You're confessed. It's the same one every time. Eddie's the same one every time, but look at this. like the green and the blue, like just their desire to get, you know, very colourful things on screen. What are they done? They've done the thing that the best Doctor Who designers do when you don't have a lot of money. You make a circular set with lots of alcoves, so you can shoot it in many different directions as you possibly can, and it feels like a vast system of K's. It's very, very clever. But I also love the zoom, the dramatic zoom in on the planet at the start of the episode. And immediately it goes... Da, da, da, da. I'm in for gold in this one. If we're doing the horn of death right at the start, we're in... It's going to be great. So this poor bastard knows he's going to die. Does he? I like how half assed a man is going, no, you'll be fine. We'll just be in this cave over here, you know. Honestly, no, no, I can't afford to leave the set. They're just around the corner by the time he's dead. He laughs... very funny as well because the fact is in the 1st 3rd of the episode, the creature kills people very fast. and then, you know, by the time someone's barely stopped screaming, the creature's gone and they're just a dusty corpse on the floor. And yet, when we finally see the horse, there's no way it's getting away from anyone in any great hurry. Oh, look at this. Look at this though. It's so well done. So the guy sees the camera advancing on him. He regards the camera directly, and then in front of the camera the thing looms up, you know, like from below, into shot. We just see it very briefly and then he's dead. And we don't see the body for a bit either, do we? We're told burn to a crisp. No, you don't see a smoke body for a cup, not until about halfway. You don't see it immediately at all. It's a great effect, though, when you see it. But just that thing that having the guy look at the camera each time, you know, like I think that's cheap, you know, but really interesting. It's probably good. Because, um, but I just imagine the director there waiting to queue the person holding the duvet going, right, go, in front of the camera and he's pulling it off. But it really works. We had POV shots in obsession when you were seeing things from the point of view of the cloud. And it's a cheap thing, like you say, because they just don't have the money to realise it as many times as they'd like to. Well, they don't have the money to realise the water at all, really in this. But it's a great suspension, suspense builder. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it gets you to see how horrifying they are. Like it puts the focus on their reaction. Because the anchor is uncomfortable position of being the monster for a moment, killing somebody. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, get the direct out. Yeah, usually. I'm hoping it's going to be marked. You know, that really is a lovely redone effect shot, isn't it, of all the pipes? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. See, this is so great. So this set as well. Do you know what I mean? Where the corridors still have that incredible blue green rock, but they're very 60s, aren't they wonderfully 60s? So good. Well, we said this time and again, haven't we, about the colours pop in on 60s track? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like a visual feast. Every time we come back here, even in the bad episodes. Yeah, that's right. And they do it with lighting, so much of it is done with light light. The direction's like, will you stand in front of that window please? We've done that map painting or we want to get some value out of it. Do you think that's in the original thing or it's been put in? It must be in the original thing. Yeah, I imagine so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What I love about this mining place is this very low tech compared to the enterprise. So basically, they've been left to rot with the shittiest technology that you could possibly find. When Scotty later on has to bring down his repair stuff. He's like, I don't have any of that equipment. That went out with the ark. Yeah, yeah. We also have like, um, part B phases. Oh, look, he's pulling out his whiteboard with a map on. He doesn't have a computer down here. I mean, in a way, that doesn't Asian, the way that dreadful computer graphics ages in the 90s, you know? Well, yeah, it does kind of age though, doesn't it? don't you have a computer? I mean, for fuck's sake. Why don't you have a big hologram floating in the sky? That's what we would have had in discovery. I thought the idea was they were under resourced though. Yes, I think so. And they have only type one phases instead of type 2 phases. But, you know, for something that's so important as, is it trillium, I've kind of missed it in the special thing. They say it quite a lot throughout the episode. I worry. They do. will pick it up. Oh, I've only just realised I've got the subtitles set to French. I wonder why I couldn't understand what was going on. There was Ed Apple with his bad haircut. Oh, it's terrible, isn't it? Yeah, terrible haircut. He goes big and a bit shaggy. Yeah. I'm described that way when I get out of bedroom, you know? That's so great. So, Spock, you know, Ed shot it. And then Spock goes, you mean shot at it. I said, no, I shot it. Spock has got a line in sarcasm in this episode. That is wonderful. He's wonderful, isn't he? He's really good The last Purgium. Is that pergium? Pegeum, they say, don't they? I think Ash is that's referencing DS9 at one point. Ron Moore loved throwing in TOS references. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Even the last scene in this, you know, where they're taking a piss out of Spock. And he's so sarky in that scene. I don't have to stand around listening to this bullshit. He goes, I'm going. So this. So I think that looks amazing. Do you know what I mean? So Spock is handling that sphere, the sort of reflective sphere. And like it looks fake, you know, it looks incredibly fake, but if you've seen snails, eggs, that's what they look like. Like they're showing little spheres. Yeah, yeah, like perfect little white spheres. So it kind of works, I think. But just having that in the foreground, that egg shaped thing, you know, which is the solution to the to the kind of problem. Um, so this episode is directed by Joseph Pepsney. And I'm now going to tell you the episodes that he directed, and boy, oh boy, is one of the best they had. You ready? Oh okay. Arena? Devil in the dark, city on the edge of forever. Cat bought a taste of Armageddon. I mean, come on. He did some of the absolute best. It looks like he bowed out in series two. Right okay. Another person, Freiburger, pissed off, I'm sure. eBay. Yes, yeah. Yes. So, yeah, I don't know. Like, I think for me that it's the script. I think this is very well realised, but I just think the script is so amazing and the 2 lead actors just the performance is really great. Well, I think if this, if the whole thing had been, like, if this was a TOS episode, I'd imagine the whole thing would have been leading up to the monster reveal, like Aquiel at the end, and we get the monster, the monster's defeated the end. Very boring. Whereas they reveal the horse about halfway through, and then, like right, so the horror movie ends here. We're going to do something a bit more interesting with this now. We're going to get to know the monster. Yeah. That's great. But also, I think what it does too. Remember that the Federation is America. Oh my god. He a pretty guy just being killed by the movie. Little blonde guy. Oh, look at that. It's just a sort of scorched outline. Look. I love the camera. It's like adding across all this dry ice to the big hole in the wall. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the big round hole. That's great. It's as much about editing, isn't it? And not lingering too long on the shots. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But so what I was saying is that this this is also a story about colonialism, isn't it? This is a colony that's here to exploit the resources of an alien planet that they don't belong to and they don't understand, and they regard the native fauna as a threat that needs to be eliminated. And then they learn instead that the hoarder is a person, you know like in any sort of sensible definition of that idea. Um, and that they need to work with her. And so, you know, the idea of of space is something to exploit, to conquer and take over and strip for resources. You know, like in an American context and in an Australian context like in a new world kind of setting, that's, you know, that's our origin story. And, and I think having Star Trek suspicious of that so early on is pretty cool. Yeah, is it quite bold then having, you know, the other, that the native being so sympathetic. Is that quite a bold move for American television? Well, I think so. You know, like it's not I mean, it's not like an indigenous, like an indigenous people or anything like that. Do you know what I mean? It's still a sort of big, it's a guy in a duvet or whatever. But I think there's something interesting about her when she sort of turns up. Oh, he's Scott, saying he can't fix them. He's incredibly patronised, isn't he? Oh, this old cheap colony. But what I do like at the end is still not... They're not like comfortable bedfellows because they're working together and he goes, yeah, they're all right, but they're still a bit gross. I can't remember the exact line. It's like once you get over their appearance, you know, they're all right. And then spot goes brilliantly. Well, interestingly, they said the same thing about you. Yeah, they think you're weird looking, but they did think my ears were kind of magnificent. Oh, love that bit. No, I think he says that they find the humanoid form repulsive or something like that. Judge's fall was great. I mean, I don't think it leans too much into that reading. is there. Yeah, no, I don't think it's absolutely there. I don't think the episode is really about that though, is it? It's more about the monster itself. I do think it is. Really? Yeah. Yep. I absolutely think. So at one level. Do you know what I mean? It is about this nameless threat that we grow to understand, and once we understand it, we can have a working relationship with it. But we also start with a situation where we're exploiting this planet's resources in a really unsympathetic way. And then later on, We learn how this planet works and we, you know just marvellously, because it's television, we need a happy ending. We get the resources that we want and we need, but without exploiting the planet, without destroying the planet's environment. I think that's there. So appallingly, then should they be rewarded at the end with success? Um, Well, because they're really sort of super ineffectual. They keep getting killed and they can't really do anything. Look, yes, there's a way, I did see someone who said, wow, lucky for the hoarder that they managed to be actually useful because you know, it's hard to imagine that they just wouldn't have been killed anyway, and that's true. But this is kind of an allegory and it's a TV show and it needs a happy ending. And so we kind of just forgive them for destroying 1000000s of, of her children, uh, and we get on with our lives and... I hope they wait till together in harmony. Fucking off, and then a whole load of horns I came along and just wiped them all out. just killed them all horribly. So, Silicon-based life, you know, is a thing that happens in Doctor Who, isn't it? And the idea. So it's an old, old science fiction idea where, you know, instead of having, you know, I don't know, enough about chemistry, but carbon, silicon plays the role of carbon, and so these are sort of creatures of living rock. Notice this entire scene where we're speculating about the nature of the hoarder, you've got Spock staring at that thing that he doesn't know what it is, but it's the egg. It's pretty good. I um... The silicon-based life form point. I think that's pure Star Trek, isn't it? There's more, you know, there's more things out there in the universe that we're going to discover beyond our understanding because McCoy says at one point. It's absolutely impossible, Spuck. to have a solificant baseline form. Oh, and City's presented with it and then, yeah. And and then we play into the idea that it's silicon base. Like he literally fixes it with cement. Does it seem like in February? Like, cup it in cement. wonderful. I just started running it all over the wounds, you know? And the, I'm a doctor, not a bricklayer line, which he laughed about before is in reaction to that. You know, it's a big rock, a big living rock that he's got to fix. But he's so delighted that he's managed to cure this life form he didn't think could possibly exist. at the start. Spocking is Scotty and his friend have brought a bong with them, I think, to kind of relax after the repairing has taken place. We've seen that in other episodes, haven't we? Relaxes being pumped through the ship. that's right They're taking a whole bunch of drugs, so they don't think too much of a wolf in the fold. Look at the look at this short with all the them lined up. Oh, the red shirt. Troubles and triples, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're all red shirts. They're not all white, which makes a nice change, but they are all men. And in fact, the only female character, I don't know, do we see Ahura on the bridge? We haven't been on the bridge, have we? I don't think so, no. I don't think we do She's not in it. So the only female character in this episode is the horta. And it is the star of the show, to be fair. But I think that's the other thing that's sympathetic with my reading as well. Do you know what I mean? That men come and conquer and exploit and destroy, and the female character has children who she grieves for, and who she wants to bring up, and she has a stake in the future as well. The men are absolutely focussed on the present and she's talking about eternity and things. Wait till you see her dialogue when Spock mind melds with her. Why are? Why are all men in 960 Star Trek so pretty? Sorry to be so. No, they're hideous. They're so pretty. Oh, yeah, these red shirts going through the corridors are pretty great. But they won't be around long, so you can't enjoy it for too long. I think it's just you've been on this man only planet for so long that you're starting to find them. A little puff on the ball. desperate. That's it. Jeez, I love this set so much. Like, why, why wasn't Naughty Strek looking at this? Seeing how it can be done. Well, I think they're embarrassed by this, and I think that they deliberately moved away from the primary colours thing, which they saw rightly, I think, as the show kind of going, we're in Technicolour, you know, let's make everything really, really red blue and yellow. Yeah, because visually opinion... What happened? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Eventually, it ends surprise. We went, oh, great, we're more monochrome than this. Yes, that's absolutely right. That's right, because I think it's more broken. Oh, wait, sorry, it's before this. forgetting. Oh my god, this is exploring an alcove. I think he's in trouble. Dramatic close-up. I see, look, he's very looking. No, he's pretty. I'm just desperate. No, you see, I think they're always just slightly a couple of degrees off, actually pretty. Yeah, look at him. He looks weird. Do you know what's great about that? What's great about those POV shots as well. It's because it's those massive fucking cameras that you had back in the 60s. You can sort of feel the poor cameraman desperately trying to wrestle this thing up towards somebody. They look great, don't they? Like the smoking ash outlines that it leaves behind. This is the sort of thing I say, I think, on the website that one of my 1st experiences of Star Trek is like the older brother of a friend of mine saying it was very scary and it would give me nightmares. And I think absolutely, we're thinking about this, aren't we? This is the sort of thing that would give kids nightmares with that, just the deaths, the way the deaths are portrayed, and just what the dead bodies look like too. Yeah, I'm really sad. I didn't watch some of this because I was so, because I watched TNG first. I was so resistant to all of this, cheap tap. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I only wanted to see exciting, riveting, sophisticated stuff like Wesley Crusher, you know? If I would have watched this when I was eight, I would have been gripped. I just needed to get over myself. I do sort of like the lava in between all the cracks. Look at it right away. Oh my god. This shot through the tunnel now. is one look at that. It's like the time tunnel. Beautiful. Stunning. Still got the dry ice. Look, just cling to the edge of the tunnel there. Yeah, it's the acid that comes off its body, you know, like, and that's genius. So it's a thing that swims through rock. Like, it's an alien that swims through rocks, the way that people or fish can swim through water. It's so good. fucking lava. I can just tunnel its way through it. Yeah, but it's just genius, okay? So here's a bit of it that spock has. So working on a level for adults, obviously, because we're going to really get in touch with the hoarder's feelings later. But it's such a great idea for kids, isn't it? This monster tunnelling its way through. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love how it, like, it's kind of animated the thing. It's breathing. And Spock says that it's made of asbestos. Yeah, this, capable of moving through solid rock as easel as we move through the air. And so it creates the tunnels that become possible. It's so good. You can take like a whole section of it off and it's still, you know, it's still on the rum. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it is horribly wounded. Remember, when they come across it. It is quite injured as a result. Yeah, I think the guy on the right's handsome, the older guy. Sorry, I'm going to get a shot of him again. I'm just watching Nemoy now. Every reaction shot is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Is his name's Giotto, I think? Yeah, that's a tunnel shot. And in a way that, in a way that, obviously, they're all in line there behind each other, but it just doesn't feel stagey. No, it's it's brilliant. So they were lucky to have to go and kill it, right? And the fact that it's wounded isn't, we're not pitying it because it's wounded, although there was a hint of that in, in Kirk's performance. Now this scene, I think, is great. I think this scene is absolutely incredible because what I think and this is how I read it, and tell me if you think I'm crazy. Spock objects to killing it. Because it's the last of its kind, and, um, that he says it would be a crime against science. Right? And Spock still theorising about it. So he thinks, yeah, it's the last of a race of creatures that made this tunnels, you know, uh, if it's the only survivor, then uh, we can't kill it. And so, Spock, look at Kirk's reaction, like they just look at one another for a bit and then Kirk tells Spock to go and go and help Scotty. Like, you're not, you're, you know, uh, you're not involved in this hunt, right? Um, It's I think he's about to do it now. Yeah, here he goes. I'm afraid the creature has to die is what you're saying. The creature has to die. So, And it... And I think that I think that what what's going to happen here. So I've kind of stepped ahead because I think it takes longer to happen than I expected. But this is what happens. I think that we think that Spock is being sent away because Kirk doesn't think he's going to obey orders, that he means... It was getting him out of the way because you were being obstacle because his Spock's going to be reluctant to kill it. But later on, I think it becomes clear that the reason that Kirk sends him away is that Kirk is frightened that Spock will get himself hurt by refusing to attack it. He's not doing it to prevent Spock from, you know, protecting the creature, but to prevent Spock from getting hurt by the creature because of his reluctance to hurt it. And there is like these 2 love one another in this in this episode. And in these scenes, like, like, like, when Spock thinks Kirk is in trouble, like he's so... He panics, doesn't he? He panics, the way he calls him Jim, I think, is just wonderful. And then once Kirk sees the creature, he can't kill it. He just... I thought that was so interesting. It's not making any threatening moves. Trapped in a room with it and it's there right in front of him and he's just said, in this scene, it has to die. will kill it. And then he says, I can't do it. He chooses not to do it. Yeah. And then it's Spock who is frightened that Kirk will be killed and Spock wants to kill the creature in order to protect his friend. It just shows what's happening with the dynamics here, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really... I think by this end of the season, you know, what, 20 episodes in or so, they've really figured out these characters and how to write these episodes around. Yeah, I think they really have. These two. The 228.7 to one odds. Do you know what I mean? He's going, oh, so they're the chest. Logically, you might as well stay there, Mr. Scott. It's so cute. And then he goes, that was always the intention. Look at the 2 of them. Just the sort of there's something about how funny Kirk finds spock. kind of how ridiculous he finds him as well. It's wonderful. It's just so great. You know what's what's both lovely and really sad is that they clearly had a really fruitful working relationship. Learn Nimoy and William Shatner. And they did have a respect for each other. And Nemoy understood Shatner's, you know, flaws and ego. I gave him his room and Shatner understood that probably Nemoy was a better actor. Don't give him his room. It's so sad how it ended. Yeah, they didn't talk to you, but he didn't go to his funeral and all of that. Because clearly, look at them on the screen together, but they are meeting each other. just magic. Yeah, yeah. Right up until those movies. They absolutely recapture it in those movies beautifully. The good side of it, I suppose, is that we can go back and watch all this stuff and see them at their height, you know? exactly. Yeah. And it is true. Every Star Trek show since then has been trying to capture this chemistry between the 3 leads in the original Star Trek. And I think sometimes they get it. Sometimes they best it occasionally, but I don't think consistently like they did in this show. And it is a brilliant conception, you know, like, and it seems to have been accidental. Like, in a show that is about, um, you know, that puts people in weird science fiction situations in order to examine what people are like. Do you know what I mean? That it's much more interested in people than it is about the weird science, although it's interested in the stupid, weird science fiction things as well. We love that too. So, yeah, we absolutely do. But just having those 3 very different people in that sort of strange relationship is just wonderful. I thought it was just, you know, a humanoid. It would be quite dull. The fact that it's a duvet covered in lava is wonderful. Well, yeah, but I think that's it. It has to be that the monster is a is a person. Do you know what I mean? Like that has to be the discovery. Fuck me, Nathan, the camera loves Shetland. Look at him walking. Just walking down a tunnel. He's so great. I don't quite know what Spog is doing there. I sent you a photograph of this earlier, them going down this tunnel, sort of back lit. I was just like this looks so great. I mean, it looks like sort of plastic that's been painted or whatever. just... You adopted... It's so much more interesting than it could have been. Do you know what I mean? It's so much more interesting, just the colours and the look of it and the texture and everything. They're not afraid to just turn the lights down and make it a bit dark as well, which I love. Frankly, that creature needs it. Yeah, yeah. I love this. You suddenly become aware because he's surrounded by eggs when he walks into this tunnel. They're everywhere. where it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So you're just waiting silicon modules. Nathan, is this a bit weather? hole when the water appears when the hoarder comes popping out of it. I love that bit. I'm like, is that a new effect or did they try and do that? It's a new effect. It's so funny No, look, the hoarder pushes the thing down. Bless it. The roof caves in. But just, just to take, to take that angle. Jim. That is a victim grieving its children. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. An interesting way. What an interesting angle sake. I could phaser you out, is this? But look how concerned he is. It's wonderful. It's so great. He's really heartbroken. Just terrific. Shatner's cool as a cucumber, of course. Well, as he is in mind, there's an extreme peril. Please proceed with caution. I will quicken my pace, sir. So wonderful. So good. Oh, look, here it is. It comes from... Yeah, that's simply the effect. Look, look, look. That's terrific. There it comes. I can see the person moving under the tv. Oh my god. I just I always love... I always love it when they go for non-humanoid monsters, whether it's Doctor Who or Star Trek or whatever it is. It's just so much more fun to look at. This, like, just the fact that Jim can't bring himself to... I know. too busy laughing. Woo, it's kind of close. You can see the man's time. back forwards. Oh, it's so wonderful. Yeah, do a POV shot. You're better off. Joseph Pepsi. Stick to your POBs. Oh, and Shatner's like, he's like he's in Shakespearean drama, he's making no concessions at all to the fact that this is sci-fi. I think that that would ruin it. I think it would ruin it. Like, this is ridiculous. It's a rug. It's got tassels. Like, it looks absurd, and it is a guy just crawling backwards and forwards and side to side. It never looks convincing for a second. But I think if they didn't believe it, it would have been ridiculous because it's proper. This has a thing to say. This is proper science fiction. I thought we thought this was the one, you know, with the flying duvets that come in, that they phaser. What's that one, do you mean? I don't know. I'll get through it one day. We will, absolutely. That, it's not making any threatening moves. I'm not going to kill it. You know, science fiction doesn't kill it. doesn't use duvets enough, does it? I feel like there's a... There's more potential. Oh, look, now Spock's saying, I'll remind you, it's a proven killer. Yes, thank you, mister. Spock is crying is so concerned for Jim as we saw in the cave in. I mean, that sounds like love so much. As a as a visual. They're carrying clubs, aren't they? Big bits of metal. They're literally going to club this indigenous creature to death. Yeah. Yeah, they're like, um, you know, the, they're like a crowd of people with pitchforks and stuff coming to kill Frankenstein or whatever. The monster, okay? Dont write it. Cortes. He's just made site of the Aztecs. So he does. Oh, is that where the eggs come out? No, that's the injury. That's the phaser blade. Ah okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's the phase, but. And it's like, it's sort of pusulant. Do you know what I mean? Like it's, it's, And it's, it looks like a blister, right? I just, yeah, I know. It's such an obvious thing to say. I just can't get over the fact that you can see the 2 hands and the 2 legs or because obviously that's all the man's got to eat. It's great. It's one hell of a performance. Oh, it is. Give him an Oscar. Adith Kayla? Who's that? That's it. Yeah, no. Shilling is right, Collins, for sure. No, no, it's no contest. We haven't done that one yet. Oh, is this when Spot makes contact? I love this scene so much. It's pizza, isn't it? And that's a moment. Shadow looks up and says that looks up at Nemo and kind of goes yeah, this is a bit ridiculous, isn't it? Like you just see? I was just like, get it. Get a load of these. But he's not mocking it. Do you know what I mean? And it is pretty subtle and that I tried talking to it, but it didn't do any good. It's actually a pretty great line as well. It does remind me of, you know, in the Doctor Who story creature from the pit where Tom Baker's trying to communicate with, that's another sort of non-humanoid creature that doesn't talk in our language. I love that. That's, again, it's just so it's so Star Trek, isn't it? Try to communicate with, you said that they do that in Discovery Series 4, didn't you? There is the DNC, and that's the discovery is the 10C, who are just completely unlike us and almost completely incomprehensible. They're super weird. It's wonderful. I mean, it's absolutely, I think that that plot, and I was going to say it. I remember thinking it at the time. That plot at the end of Discovery Series four, which I think is the best run of Discovery and the best season of Discovery, one is very good as well. But 4 is great. It's real proper science fiction the way this is. It's about learning to communicate with new people. And remember the 10 C of been destroying planets. So it's the same kind of thing. Totally, like you said, pushing against, you know, the idea of the Americans or whoever invading another place and taking over. What they're doing is they're going out into the stars and they're reaching out a hand of hello rather than trying to conquer them. It's a wonderful miss. And it's also not taking revenge as well. Do you know what I mean? Like if like the story in series 3 of Enterprise is that they're going to prevent another attack, right? But they're also out for revenge in a way. So, all right. So miserable in a way, isn't it? Well, I was going to say, right, if Shatner's in a Shakespearean drama, Nemoy is in a Greek tragedy, I mean, he just goes for it. So he'll kneel down and touch it and deliver the dialogue and because it's female. Oh, look at it trying to get up the stairs there. It does make you wonder how it got away so quickly all those times it murdered people, isn't it? But, oh, it goes up onto the stairs so that Shatner doesn't so that Nemo doesn't have to bend down too much to do the mind probe. No, no, this is it, this is it, saying no kill. No, no kill I. No kill. I. I've forgotten that. I only watched it this morning. So good. But it just goes, this just goes to show now. Bringing in an actor of like Nemoy's talent to come in and to make that fucking prop. Hurt. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. And so it's able to communicate like that because it's communicated with Spock, that it and Spock, and now it can talk. Now we know it's a person. Yeah, it's got a name for itself. Look at, look at Jim's reaction to learning. It has a name for itself as well. He smiles, you know. In a minute as well, the things that Spock says from the point of view of the water, the language that they use. It's the closest I've come to finding something when we did Dharmal. Do you remember when you said that and just the use of language in that episode and how it was used to sort of strike you emotionally? This is the closest, I think, I've seen another episode come to that. It's it's beautiful. It's just like single words, isn't it? Yeah. But it's, it's, but it's thinking about the future because it is a mother. Do you know what I mean? thinking about future generations of its kind and it's a very special kind of mother because it's the only one left. Remember, they all die off and there's just one of them and it's her job to completely rebuild the species up, you know. Um, and so she's the mother of that that species. And when he speaks to her, when he speaks with her words, he has a soft voice. Have you noticed that the way that Nemoy speaks, he speaks in a sort of very soft way, as if he's trying to channel something feminine? We're, what, 30, 35 minutes in, yeah, and he's still asking. Kirk's still asking. I want you to find out why it's killing people. And just how the whole episode turns on a dime when you realise it's our mother protecting her children. Yes. The whole exis change. Look at that shot. Look at that shot where he reaches out and puts his hand on it and then moves in. Like there's something, there's something about that shot, that 1st contact between these 2 completely different types of people. And I just love the weight. pulsates under his hands. I don't think that's an effect added. I think that's a physical effect. No, no, no. No, no, no, that's practical. That's in the in camera. I love Mr. Vandenberg and his man are here and they're pretty ugly but no one's uglier than Mr. Vandenberg, I think. He's a really rough looking sort of person. They're as ugly as anyone can look dressed up like the gap like they all look there. Very colourful. in their jumpsuits. lovely pink mining jumpsuits. Oh, look at him, devils, he says. Yeah, it's a devil to the dens. Is the devil in the dark isn't the horser, is it? It's the people. The chamber of the ages, the altar of tomorrow. Gosh, that's... Yeah, so time and the future. Everything for her is about the future. Yeah, this is the end of eternity. If she dies and the Horta aren't born because they're being destroyed. Yeah, it's so good, isn't it? But she's angry and vengeful as well. Well, actually would be if someone had been murdering a load of your kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And look at McCoy's fashion is great. Like, how does he come? That is the face of a man that's just had every belief shattered. Yeah, that's right. Here is Nemo Lake Crouch beside a giant pizza. Oh, dodged it like a pizza, doesn't it? wounded. I mean, I'll get pretty cheap pizzas, and they do look a bit like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a problem. Back alley Eastbourne pizza, that is. Really? Yeah. Bless De Forrest Kelly now. Doing his medical. Waving his magic wand. Well, that's the that's that fabulous. I mean, Beverly has one of those as well, doesn't she? The medical tricorder with a little sense of thing that you can get out and sort of wave at your patient. You can't be serious, Nathan. That thing is virtually made of stone. Dr. not a brick layer. So good. And then he just says, you're a healer. It's a patient. That's an order. That is so good. Do you remember? Well, of course you do. We talking about the video cassettes in the 90s, you know, when these all came out. And there was a trailer of scenes and both the, my God, Jim. begin to think I can cure a rainy day. That was in there and the bricklayer one as well. I mean, this is all trailer fuel these lines. It is, it's so good. So brilliant. Yeah, but isn't that what science fiction is? Like, that's absolutely what science fiction is about. I think this is this Star Trek is not often really science fiction uses the trappings of science fiction. You know, it's guns and spaceships and all of that sort of thing. But this is it. You know, this is about communicating with something absolutely you know, incomprehensible. Which, again, was, that was what Donald was about, wasn't it? We can't talk to these people, couched in metaphor all the time. How the hell do I get through to this man whilst I'm being killed by this invisible beast behind me? Oh, it was great. Yeah. So good. So good. So maybe it's when we flirt with these themes. Maybe this is when Star Trek's at his best. Well, that's what I want like Star Trek. That's the thing that I like about Star Trek. This is the Star Trek that I like, is that kind of Star Trek, like the, you know, but to connect episode, the, you know, season 3 episodes that we watched of Discovery and things, that all about making connections and just think, you know, oh, this where he's weeping. Oh, yeah. Yeah, again. Give him I had held back. Do you know what I mean? If he'd just been even slightly embarrassed. There are times just makes free, you know, where, and he says, you know, you can see how embarrassed I am with some of the things I have to do. You know, I'm trying to give it my best, but, you know, I realise this show had gone to the dogs. At this point, the show was riding high. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, look, he's tearing up, but of course, and of course, it's Spock tearing up as well. Do you know what I mean? This rock has made Spock, who disdains emotions, is making him cry you know, it's so good. Isn't that even that quite bold in the 60s to have a male character? Yeah, like emoting for a female. Well, yeah, and having him essentially play female. you know what I mean? He's delivering the dialogue of a female character. His wife remembering. this is the same series that gave us the episode that said female captains are an impossibility. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. and had Yeoman Rand with her coffee tray. I, I think, you know, those mining out fits as stupid, but just the choice of having them in all of those warm colours in that blue set. makes it just look amazing. Look at this. Look all those broken eggs. Yeah, yeah. I mean, visually, it makes its point well, right? Yeah, yeah. And Shatner's looking at broken eggs that we don't get to see that are all up the walls or all up the opposite walls. There's 1000000 all we can realise. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's enough, though. think that's enough. Yeah, it is. I think it's fine. This episode's like tunnel porn for me. I want that tunnel to be in every episode. Forrest Kelly. He's acting to order some cement. As the creature is pulsating in front of him. No, they said cut and he was like, Jesus, I was doing Westerns before this. What am I doing here? So she is about to die. Do you know what I mean? Like this is the point at which she's going to die. She says the murderers have won. Death is welcome. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Look at his tears. He's really cropping. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jesus, they wouldn't let this go out as the parlour, would they? A man weeping. Yeah, yeah. And there's, look, and Shatner comes in with the broken eggs. As well. Wow. That's probably good, isn't it? Given it is patently absurd. It's really very moving. No, no, they're making us move by the pizza duvet, you know what I mean? Like, it's it's ridiculous. It, oh, look. Oh, of course, because she she stole the part of the reactor didn't she? And so they've just got it back. Shame we don't see one of those eggs hatch, you know, I'd love to see how they would have realised that. I'd love to have a baby horse. Little baby horse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just... I wonder if there's a hoard or toy. you one for Christmas. Oh, there we go. Look, see, man. That's what they do. the murderers. We're just gonna eat. here we go. Imagine what Calvin would say if you presented him with that to go in the house somewhere. A massive whole degree. Yeah, no he'd love it. That's it. Kirk's stepping in the way now. First man who fires is a dead man. Yeah, that's great, isn't it? And you have killed 1000s of her children. And he calls it her. You know, you have killed. Wow, it's so good. It's so good. that they didn't comprehend or is it that they didn't care? Well, I think they didn't care. They didn't, but not comprehending is the point. Isn't it that they come in? They find something reaching resources that they don't understand. They make no attempt to understand it because they need the pergium and that's all they care about. And that's the point. You know, they're they're strip mining this planet with no interest in the in how it works. I think it's lovely that we've gone from Kirk, saying this creature has got to die too. It is an intelligent creature. It's beautiful, you know, peaceful and mild. Yeah, beautiful. Any mother would fight when her children are in danger. That is true. And that's him. Do you know what I mean? Like Vanderburg doesn't fight back. He just says, we didn't know, how could we know? How could we know? And he pushes back in the sense that, well, what do we do? We can't have 1000s of these things throwing me around here. What are we going to do? And then, of course, we learn that it's going to work. You know, it'll work for them even better. Yeah. They're so little because this is an overtly masculine show, the original series. There's so little for women watching it to kind of take off. But actually this, this, a woman could watch and buy into completely what this episode is about. It's written and it's written by a black book, isn't it? It's written by Gene Coon. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I should have kept him around, you know. Yeah. Yeah, so here he's coming up with a solution, the way that they can live together. Um, and of course, it all works, and it would be more profitable even though there's no money in the future, um, uh, it would be a more profitable business, and uh, fortunately, it all works out well for everyone. This is my favourite bear. Kira, rainy day. Help it. He goes, I have to ship beam down a £100 of concrete. I'll just shoved it in all the cranks. Space concrete. Thermo concrete. Oh, I wonder what he's really got on his hands. It's probably like a mud pack or something, isn't it? He just looks so happy. You really have got to see all 3 of them at their best here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We've spoken in the past about McCoy being, you know, this terrible racist in TOS at times. Oh, here we go. Here we go. So it's the humans thing. You know, it's like, like he actually finds the horta, quite a relief after hanging out with all the humans. He actually appreciates hanging out with the horta because she's very logical, which I think is. That's so funny isn't it? Oh, soon as well. Now, these end scenes with the gag. It's very hit and miss, you know, sometimes they land, sometimes they don't. one is great. Yeah, I think it is pretty great. Oh, look, here we go. The eggs have hatched. And now, Mr. Vanderberg is a proud... a 1000000000 duvet slime pizzas. You people are going to be embarrassingly rich, he says. despite the fact that there's no money in the future. No, that's right. Well, we haven't quite landed there yet, have we? There's still Goldpress Latinum, I'm sure. Well, he said about the horse that? What's exactly what the hoarder said to me. She found them as something. so great. That sort of weird bland smile that Shatner has on his face. like this very neutral, no reaction kind of look that he keeps giving Spock. is really funny. It's just really... The way he delivers that line. She found my ears the most attractive characteristic of all. She really liked those ears. It's a remarkably intelligent creature with impeccable taste captain. Oh, I love it. I suspect you're becoming more and more human, Mr Spock. That's right. Does he say I find no need for you to be insulting or something? Stand in here, be it somewhere by you? That's okay. And then we cut away before the laughter even hits, which is what they should do. We do get them smiley at whatever. There's a director's name. we salute you to the end of the episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that was pretty good. Oh my god. Well, it had all of our favourite things in there. Lots of fun in to play. A great message. Brilliant science fiction, a terrible monster. I mean, what more could you have? No, it's absolutely perfect. I don't know why it's not people's, you know, number one Star Trek episode. It's absolutely great. It's not, we're just getting that still from city at the edge of forever, on the edge of forever, where, you know, we shouldn't be pacifist because that means the fascist for wind, so we have to run over Joan Collins in a car. And I just kind of think, wow, that's actually really a depressing and deeply bleak and cynical view of the world. But not here where we have the killer monster is actually just misunderstood and mistreated. And if everyone would just agree to cooperate and be nice to one another and overlook our individual differences, everything would be a lot better. And, you know, what's not to love about that? I mean, it's utterly naive, but very optimistic. Star Trek. It's absolutely what I watch it for. I do feel as if they thought they missed a trickier, though, when they didn't show all the fabulous little hoarder babies on the screen. So when they got to season 2 and they did a triple episode, they said, right, we're going to fill the screen with 100 triple babies you know? And so they did. Why do we ever have the hoarderback? That would be great. But I guess... Wow, it was a bit shit's role. That's probably why. Probably. But it plays its role in that little science fiction allegory, and I think that's perfect. What more are you gonna do with them? I suppose actually we do go to a lot of mining colony, so we could have done sequels. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the Hort, they take them with them to help them mine. I don't know. I just want to see the horn of babies. Ships out to all the colonies, being exploited. you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then they turn crazy and kill everyone because they will do that when they're exploited, apparently, and good for them. Although, you know what? It was barely executed here in the 1960s. I dread to think what they would have done in the 1990s. Yeah. Very much Beja caverns, I think, would have been the order of the day. Alright, it's the end of the episode, and it's time for us to find out where we're going next. And I just say, Devil in the Dark. I did, and now we've watched Far Beyond the Stars, a fabulous Lower Decks episode, and a brilliant TOS episode. So we're on a run of absolute gyms. I can, I know I can trust you to just ruin that now. Well, I am going to 90s Treg, but given that it's my responsibility to come up with something terrible, I'm actually taking Deep Space 9 off the table for this one. So it'll be... We were a little, I hate percentage wise. were we on DS9? Yeah. But we're also a little head on good episodes. And so it's just next, Jan, Voyager and enterprise in the mix this time. Yeah. Probably about 7030. It might be a bad episode on a good day, I think. All right. Here goes. Enterprise, season three, episode one, the Zindi. That okay, that might be worth doing, but we have just done a series 3 Enterprise episode. So I think we should shake it up a bit more than that. Yeah, I think you're right. It was a few weeks ago now. But yes, I am sort of interested in season three. I just don't want to do an enterprise episode. Well, we might end up doing one. All right, let's see what else we can get. I think it's this. I think it's this. Your random Star Trek, the next generation episode is season one episode 14, Angel one. Oh, no. That's the one where Riker's got his shirt opened the whole episode, isn't it? That was a formative sexual experience to me. and I won't have you disrespecting it. Yeah, that Harry. chest. I did spend quite a lot of time thinking about that. Famously one of the most sexist episodes. of Star Trek ever. We've just done 1960s drag. Oh, yeah, well, that had a war that had a female in it? I mean, there was a time, a little while back. We were crying out for early next generation and we've had a couple now, sir. I think we should do it. Oh, yeah, no, absolutely. We definitely doing it. It gives me the chance to say the fabulous quote as well. But will you still respect me in the morning? Oh my god, I can't wait. You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley. We're online at untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts. Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lahn. This episode was recorded on the 4th of June 2024 and released on the 21st of June. We'll see you next time for Star Trek the Next Generation, Angel One. You're recording on both places. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's incredible. And I think the writing is incredible. You know, like, it's G.L. Coon, and it, like, I don't think it's anyway, we can talk. I don't want to spoil my thing. I just think it's... Star Trek. fucking great Star Trek. absolutely perfect. It's good Teddy, but it's great Star Trek. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know that thing that we talked about? Oh, yeah, Nemo is incredible. But, you know, like every so often you'll watch an episode and you'll think, yeah, this is really barely competent television and you know, like the start of, I mean, Devil in the Dark is a perfect example. It's just garbage, you know, like it's made by people who don't know what they're doing, apparently for some reason. This week. everyone's forgotten how to make television. This is devil in the dark. You mean Wolf in the Folds? What did I mean? Wolf in the fold. See, they're very similar. They definitely are more from the fold. It's very hard to tell them about. But the other one is, um, uh, what was the one? was that one again? yeah But the one... The, the one that, um... With the, the dicaronium vampire thing, which looked like it was going to be really shitty, but ended up being much less shitty initially, they're on the planet, the smelly vampire clown comes and kills everyone. Oh, gosh, obsession. Obsession, obsession. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, again, it starts and you just think, what the fuck is happening here? Do you know what I mean? This is late. You'd think the money would be running out by now. But actually, I know there's the map pay thing. I know the horter is there. But they really go for it. Yeah. Yeah, it's just a great set, great script. And this speaks to us, right? You know, tunnels, monsters. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Lovely POV shots of the monster killing people. Wonderful stuff. like proper horror movie stuff too. Like, do you know what I mean? They're not stealing that off, Doctor Who. It's like horror movie trope, isn't it? Like where the thing rears up and in the camera, it's wonderful. I wish you had just reared up him. No, I like it when it arrives. It does remind me very much of the venom grubs, the way it moves around, you know, the person, I believe, on the skateboard. It's the, it's the, um, guy under the duvet in the clause of axos. Oh, like Galileo 7, right? Galileo 70. kind of go, what is fucking going on here? That was like, that was terrible. So what is it? That might be the worst. Is it the director? Is it, everyone just goes, oh, this is a lame script. We won't even try. What determines, whether this is a competent bit of television or not? Or whom gods destroy? Yeah. I think, I mean, I think that's competent, but just desperately unambitious and shitty, you know. And I know they were trying to do a backdoor pilot, but do you remember how gorgeous a Simon Earth looked? gorgeous sets and the location work and everything. You know, and I don't even think we've done the best looking TOS episodes, yeah. Yeah, awesome, really. Maybe a doomsday weapon. Doomsday weapon. No, doomsday machine. machine, yeah. More Doctor Who. Talking about Doctor Do. But then that's just using the same sets. But just lighting them and shooting them in a more exciting... Yeah, and well-performed. This is Mark Daniels. This one is I don't know. Well, I'll keep an eye on the screen. Don't worry, when we press player. Yeah, let's skip an eye out for that. It probably is. It's Gene Al Coon, though. So there's that. I just feel like in the 1st series. Well, I'll say it in the episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, let's do it. Because this will be longer and I go to bed after this. Then wake up to the endless crushing grind that is my incredible job teaching Latin to well-behaved children. That's it. The kids are not a problem. Like these, like working in mind, like these feel. Right. Okay. Okay. Hey, Joe. Hi.