Proving Ground

Hey, Joe. Hi. So, we are, for the first time, in series three of Enterprise, and we're racing against the clock to stop another weapon or something and it's all very urgent and very important and highly serialised and how do you think it's going? What, in terms of this episode or the season today? Well, let's say both. Okay. I knew you were going to try and get my opinion on season 31st before you come in with yours. I know your tactics by now. I've come to a conclusion that season 3 of Enterprise is my favourite season of the show. More than four. More than four. Yes, because I think 4 ends appallingly, whereas 3 ends in a really fun way. And I think it's the most ambitious Star Trek's been since Dick's most 9 went off the air. I think it's it's kind of the most operatic. Maybe not operatic enough because they're all a little bit muted and embarrassed over in the Enterprise corner. Yeah, but they're trying, you know, with crazy cartoon aliens. It's telling long form storytelling across a year about an idea which has dramatic worth, and that is that a weapon is being built which is going to effectively destroy the earth. And it goes about telling that story in lots of interesting ways. So we get to meet the builders of the weapon. We get to go on a long journey with one of them who eventually sort of joins the heroes and tries to stop it from happening. Yeah. Degra, yeah. Yeah. From the next episode onwards. Okay. It's introducing a load of wacky crazy aliens. I'm over there incredibly effective, but visually they're quite interesting and they're doing new things there. It affords a more sort of psychological and intense look at the characters who behave in unusual and ugly ways. And I know you don't like that, but I do. I do like it when characters in Star Trek shows behave in a way that isn't entirely the Starfleet way. I just think it makes good drama. And, you know, like you and I have absolutely opposing viewpoints on the episode anomaly, which I know you think is the ultimate betrayal of the Star Trek. That's a good episode anomaly from series 4 of Discovery, but the episode anomaly. It's the only one where they've reused an episode title. Just like the CG of AR 5 or 8. I love that one because it paints Archer in a terrible light. But for once, I'm like, okay, well, he was being an asshole last year, but he didn't have any great reasons to do so. This year, he's being an arsehole and he feels like he's got a court. I know it's worrying. It's uncomfortable. and I like it. I think the season is structured well. It gains momentum as it goes along. You then have 4 episodes towards the end of the season where enterprises blasted to buggery and it looks like all hope is lost and visually the show's never been better than those 4 episodes. I watched that sequence this morning and I was like, whoa, you could put this on. Now, This looks great. That literally blows the sets to shit. And they also managed to bring in secondary characters that they've had from other seasons like Shran, they'll get involved. I'm going to call it DS9 Light, because I think DS9 did it better with better characters and more interesting storytelling, but for once, I'm paying attention to sort of the direction enterprise is going in. And I'm intrigued to see how it pans out. Yeah, I mean, I think that I haven't watched it all the way through ever, and there are episodes of it that I haven't actually seen. I thought that this episode was pretty enjoyable, but I think still there's a political problem, which is, of course, that it's really trying to justify America's response to 9-11 and the way America behaved in the Middle East and kind of just to say, well we got hit, we can now do whatever we like and whatever it takes. And I don't think it does that wholeheartedly. And there's even quite a good moment, I think. I think it's between Shran and trip. Um, is it, is it Shran or is it Talas? I can't remember. But in any case, Tripp is talking to one of the Andorians and he makes it clear that this is not about getting revenge, that whatever he feels about the people who created and deployed the weapon. We're here just to stop the next one. And we're, you know, we're not here for avenge or anything like that. But I still think too, that this is generic space show rather than Star Trek, and it does a little bit what I sort of fear Voyager does sometimes as well, where the default position is that aliens are treacherous and can't be trusted, that basically they're our enemy, and we're kind of more or less justified in doing whatever we need to do in order to kind of best them. And I think, you know, that's fine in certain shows and stuff like that, but I just don't think that that's what Star Trek is about. That's not what makes Star Trek interesting. And even Strange New Worlds has just done an episode where we're responding to bad guys that said in the Klingon war that starts in episode one of Discovery and that precedes Strangely Worlds. And it deals with that sort of thing. But this is a whole season where it's all about that. And Voyager is an entire show where in many ways it's largely about that as well. And I think a Star Trek that has hope and is into making coalitions and reaching out and connecting and being the best that we can be, doesn't have to be dull, doesn't have to be boring. I don't think it can be dull, but anything can be dull. I mean, a version of Star Trek where we hate the aliens and stuff and we're going all out to get revenge could also be dull. It's not that the premise is dull because I don't think prodigy for instance, is dull at all, and it's absolutely got villains, but it's essentially hopeful. And I think that this is ugly. And in particular, I think this episode rewards the arsehole tendencies of Captain Archer. Like, he is quite reasonable for most of it, and then at the very end, he just goes full arsehole, and that's how he wins. I mean, that's a problem with season 3 though. I think that's a problem with Enterprise. They frequently reward Archer for being a complete arsehole. But, you know, do you know what is dull? Season one and 2 eventually? Yeah, I agree. And what they've done here is they've tried to make it more interesting. I think they succeeded. I feel like there's an injection of budget because this season is punctuated by a lot more set pieces, a lot more action. They've improved the music. The characters are afforded the chance to give sort of heightened performances and show a bit of emotion. And because it's all a bit desperate, you know? That's far more interesting than them just sailing around the universe, civilising people like they normally do. Yeah, but I, you know, like I think it just goes to show how absolutely out of sympathy Berman and Braga are with the kind of Star Trek project. And so when they try and do Star Trek, you know, the thrill of discovery, you know, Malcolm talks about being on an exploration ship. Um, and there's a character in Strange New Worlds last week who says he joined Starfleet to explore, but he hasn't got to do any of that stuff lately because we're at war. You know, there's stuff about the, that being on a ship where we're meeting new people where we're exploring strange new worlds. That's not boring. That's really interesting, but Birmingham Braga can't make it interesting. And so they have to do a sort of revenge fantasy season where they tastelessly recreate 911 only on a massive scale. And it's great, isn't it? They'd go out for revenge, which is just, it's kind of miserable, I think. It also shows as well how, like, the Zindi, you know, the various creatures that are involved in that cabal, the sea turtles that talk and the insect always and the big monsters. I forget what they're called now, and digress people and all of that. It works to a point because I do, like I keep saying, I think it's visually interesting. They're trying to do something a bit different with the monsters. But it just goes to show you how sophisticated it was on DS9 when they brought in the Dominion, Gemadar, the water, there's power struggles there. There's genuine characters there, you know, there's people we want to be around because the performances are so fun there. Whereas this is generally just people sitting around a table going you know, what's happening with the weapon? Is it ready to go? What's 25 episodes? I think it's really, really bad. I think they're embarrassing. And one of the things about the Dominion is that it grows organically as the show goes on. And so things like the Vorta being clones, I don't think, was the idea originally until they wanted to get Jeff Coombs back. You know. Originally, she had like that water woman had beams that came out of her chest. That soon got forgotten when they didn't want to do that anymore. So you have the vorta, you know, we've introduced the changelings and then we just, you know, we introduced the change things in the season opener. Where's Odo from? We don't know, but, you know, he's an alien from the Gamma Quadrant, probably. So all of that just gets built up out of material that exists and grows organically and then is given these incredible actors to perform the scenes, whereas they kind of go, that worked very well on Deep Space 9, which is the only time where you've had scenes where people who aren't our regulars are there talking about their evil plans. And I just thought these were laughable. And I was just super embarrassed by the fact that Rick Worthy gets cast as a like an ape. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's just like you have to get the black guy to play an ape. Like, what the hell is wrong with you? Well, the trouble is, is I could list all the races in the Dominion and then I can list most of the individual characters that appeared over 6 seasons. Yeah, yeah. Whereas I was just proven to you that I can't name the races in the city. I certainly can't name any of the characters and I only watch this. Yes, they didn't even give them names. Like, there's primates arboreals... Whale guys. Like, flies, like reptile guys with spiky heads. And I just think that like that's the kind of thing where your mum walks in while you're watching it, goes, what the hell do you have on television? When the insect's talking, all you hear is like, that's right really big subtitles for people who aren't used to reading very quickly. It's really bad. And some dreadful new age whale song every time that's all... I know, I know. Yeah, that's not great. But I really enjoyed this episode. Oh, I did too. I think all that. Well, I think it lent into the season well as well. I think we go to the proving ground where they're creating the weapon and testing it, and that's appalling, what they do in this episode, but it also allows us to take an established relationship which is archers and strands and actually do something fun with it. He comes along or, oh, Captain Archer, my lovely pink skin, you know, and all along, he's behaving like a sinister swine because he's just after the weapon, you know, and you're just waiting for the moment where he's going to play his hands. Yeah, which is super boring, isn't it? We'll get there. What knows Jeffrey Coombs? I know, no, no. He terrific. I think he is terrific. Yeah, I do have things to say because I do have some other objections to the episode, but broadly speaking, I did have fun. Not quite a night in Sick Bay fun, but fun nevertheless. I'll be really interesting to see if you did the whole season. I know you still wouldn't like the fundamental premise, you know and how people are behaving, but just how you feel about the story overall, especially in that last third. Where I think, do you know what? They actually, and because there are some standalones in series 3 that are super weird. North Star. connected to the main part, North Star, Carpenter Street, the one where they all turn into apes. You know, the one where Captain Archer turns into an insect, you know. All very odd. But they save the sort of the juicy stuff for that last third. And I think that's a bolt, that's the right decision to make, you know, go out on a high. And then the last episode is just some mad 0 hour is a mad sort of Hollywood blockbuster and they throw a ton of money at it. So you got Archer in there, that massive weapons going crazy around in that big ball and he's there, you know, fighting the Zindi on there and it is genuinely as cinematic as they could make Star Trek at the time. Right. and quite impressive. Okay. Well, what do you think? Should we go in? I think we should. All right. I knew we were going to disagree on this one. Okay, 5, 4, 3, 2, one, and we're off. See my imagination. or has the CGI come on a little bit at this point. So I was reading more ambitious. Yeah, no. See, I love this anomaly stuff, like the weird warpy anomaly stuff that comes back in this episode. I think that's really effective where the sort of wibbly thing goes through the corridors. That's excellent. It's much better than, say, twisted. And I love... I like the wall. It looks so good. It's got all that sort of weird things going on around there, isn't it? It's like an orrery or something. Like it's like a weird mediaeval kind of, you know, model of the sky and it's got 3 or 4 layers that you see moving within one another and stuff. It's really good. Previously on Enterprise, a lot of shooting shit. They basically said when they kickstarted series 3 and that is, do you know what? essentially we're cancelled at the end of this season. Yeah, yeah. So we let's just let's just go for it, you know? Yeah, so they did have more money this season and they were sort of aware that they could create some pretty great visuals. And I think they do do that. I mean, it's still sort of hampered by the usual kind of 90s, 90s Star Trek production style and everything's indoors in this episode, I think. I can't follow what's going on in this previously. That's not occurring here. Yeah. I did notice that how she got a line then for a second, which during the recap. I think that's more that she gets in the episode, you know? Yeah I've got something to say about that. So I love this opening too. So we haven't seen Shran. Is Shan introduced in series two? Series one. There is one, actually. I've been around for a little while, yeah. And so he's turning up here. I do think that high definition and this makeup don't get on very well. I knew you were going to say that. I was waiting. Because you can sort of see it flaking. Yeah, yeah, he's got a lot of foundation on, it looks. And SD, it would look amazing. Well, not amazing, but you know, adequate. Well, see, the Andorians were something that was absolutely avoided in Star Trek, the Next Generation. And I think that the only time we see an Andorian on screen is in the offspring where Lal is choosing her gender and species and we you know, we see a hologram Andorian. And I think again, it's them being embarrassed about original Star Trek and anything that's too cheesy. Probably sue them then for given them such a big row in this show. Because this is quite a serious Star Trek show, you know? Yeah, but so they've kind of lent into the idea that it's the Andorians, the Vulcans, and the Tellorites that create the Federation, and that's hinted at in the things like Journey to Babel, isn't it? The original Star Trek episode that kind of is the sort of place where we go. Should we stop and sing the song? been a long time. Now my time is finally here. I love it so much. So I think they're great. I think getting Jeffrey Coombs to play, you know, I mean, he's so good. He is really great at Shran. And I really liked Talas, the woman in this episode, I think, is really good. And she's got a very 60s look, too. I think she comes back as well. What's really sad is, you remember that big industry I told you about when Bran Bragger's brought to task by the cast of Enterprise, special guest star Jeffrey Coombs is brought in. Oh, wow. At one point. and joins the chat. And, you know, he's having a great time sitting there with all of his mates. And he goes, you know what? He goes, I was really disappointed. He goes because I'd done my time. I played all these weird aliens on DS9 and Voyager. Um, then you gave me brunt. Then I was given way in. You know, and I did my time playing a semi-regular. And then when you called me for Shran, I genuinely thought you were going to ask me to be a part of an ensemble, finally, because I'd done so much work for you and had proven that I could do it. And he goes, and I was really upset for a long time. He goes, I would never turn down the work because, you know, like but he wanted to have a bigger role in Star Trek. Yeah, so right. Here we are with the Zindi, right? And so we've got Degra here. We've got poor old Rick Worthy dressed as a Lima. Um, and typical humanoid. Well, and because they've all got such dumb names. Do you know what I mean? And they call each other that? Like they call them the cetaceans or whatever. What are the water ones called? Whale guys, the whale ones? Like conquatic, aren't they? They're this India aquatic, aquatic. I mean, it's so so crap. And so and they're all just standing around talking space dialogue at each other. It's miserably dull. When these things deemed to get interesting is later on when Degra's been turned by Archer. Right. And then he has to go back undercover amongst these people and they're figuring out that he's not, you know, and that's that's far more interesting than this. Yeah. I like the eyes on the on the reptilians like they've got... almost really sad. You know, the big crazy one that looks like the fella from Galaxy Quest. Oh, yeah, yeah. That monster. That's Scott McDonald. He played Tosk in DS9 and he played the Gemadar in Rocks and Shoals. He's been given some seriously sophisticated Star Trek roles compared to this bullshit. So they've lost their database or something like that? Is that something that's happened and we're picking up on that the following week or something? Yeah, so it is serialising in that way in the every story leads into the next. In fact, so much so, you know. This is the greatest endorsement. I can probably give this episode. I watched the next one afterwards. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And actually, it was way better than this. Right, right. I actually think that this does a very, very good job of balancing the arc and being about something, like having, like, I guess tying it together by having the guest star turn up and then leave you know, so it becomes an episode rather than just, you know, like a soap opera episode. What I loved about this particular episode. I don't know, I can't praise Jeffrey Coombs enough. But just any chance he gets to come in and schmooze, like when he did it as Wei Yoon, you know, and here as Shran, when he comes in and he's charming as hell. Travis just said something. I think it might have been yes, sir. I think you imagined it. Okay. No, he doesn't talk. He just pushes buttons. Do you think that there's a problem with giving the Andorians, the nickname for humans, which is pink skins? I did wonder. I just think, yes, everyone who talks on enterprise is white, but like that's not a good reason to call them pink skins. Yeah, that's a bit awkward. It's really bad, isn't it? And why aren't they calling the Vulcans pink skins? because they're all white people as well. I mean, I think if we examine the dialogue, he generally calls Archer... But still, it does seem to be the name for us. You know what's sad about that is I don't think it's deliberately racist. I think it's just thoughtless dialogue. Yeah that's right. Wouldn't that be quirky? Yeah, we got the pink skin. Like, because we think they're blue. See, I think this is really good. And this is just like another boring shot where some, you know like a console explodes in some guy's face. But just it's this effect going through the corridors, I think, is really good. Well, you see, the reason why I went forward and watched the set piece from Azati Prime, where it looks like Enterprise is finally going to be destroyed, is because there was a few sparks flying in this, but I couldn't see any rocks about the place. But I'm pleased to report in a zati prime, there's rocks on dirt everywhere. Coming out of the ship. Great. Great stuff. Enterprise is packed full of them, especially when the ceiling comes down. Oh my god. There's Travis again being seen. Hoshi. Oh, that's wonderful. That is a really funny... And then the antenna. That's really funny. And then he just slides out of shot as the camera moves around slightly. I think that's very cute So, like, you know, we're halfway through the season, and this is the point where Jeffrey turns up and I'm already sold. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But he is like, like, for him to say, I'm a reliable actor. He's not, that's not ego. No, no, no. He is right. genuinely brilliant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And think of, think of those roles. Think of Brum. Think of way you. Think of shrine. They're just, I know, I know, crazy quirky characters. very distinct. Different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, the Andorians are here, and what we really need to be seeing for this show to be about, it's increasing trust between them, and they start off a bit wary of one another. And, you know, there's that scene where archers says, look, I'm not going to post guards. I'm going to have pet men with guns following them around the ship like we just can't do that because we're trying to have a relationship sort of thing. And I think what's boring is the, oh, it turns out they just want the weapon twist and now we have to fight them to get the weapon off them. And there's no, and the one way, the one kind of saving grace is the bit at the end where someone sends them all of the information. And what I'm hoping is that when they're back later in the season that it's Shran or Talas, who did that. I don't think you see them again this year. Ah, you see that? They are back in four. Okay. Okay. You see, I just sort of think, well, what's that? You know, like, how does it become about anything? And see, we've had this before, haven't we? Two of the episodes of Enterprise we've done, we've had people come along and work alongside the Enterprise crew and that was cogenitor and unexpected. And in each of those, that's great. Like, that's really interesting. That's the best part of those episodes, respectively. And those are weird in interesting ways. Whereas the Andorians are just blue rather than kind of weird in interesting ways. Don't you? I think it's a triumph for anyone to act with those twitching antennae. Okay, I think there's... to emote in that makeup. Yeah, yeah. extraordinary. I do really like Strand's grudging respect of Tapalm. Despite the fact that, you know, he hates Falcons. That was quite nice because he admits it later on, doesn't he? And so he sort of coughs into his hand and says, you know, she's adequate. Yeah, no, he says that to the general that he speaks to on the telly a bit later on. I like all of this. I like the physical effects of them repairing the show. And trust me, they do it a lot this season because their ship is always falling apart this year. Yeah, just the physicality of it. not just sort of waving beams and stuff, but you've got proper welding and stuff happening in the background. I was quite shocked by Jolene Blaylock's performance in this as well because she's more relaxed than she was in series one. She's come quite a long way. She's still sort of given that icy Vulcan performance, but... She's quite at this point, hasn't she too? Has she? So not the show. She's quit the she's quit Vulcan science theme or something. Yeah, okay. Oh, end of season one. So she's she's on board. This is her tribe now, you know, Right, okay. Yeah. She's here to stop the weapon like everybody else. But there was a warmth to her. Like, do you remember when we watched her in? Was it unexpected? and she was just a cow, was she? Yeah. Yeah. This is nice. I actually like this shot too. You know, there's activity going on in the ship. It's not, you know, like they could be standing around talking and it could be much more static than this and it's not. And I, that's the element of this show that I like is whenever it's showing us what it's like to just kind of live on this ship because it's, you know, such a new thing for all of them. Yeah, anyway. So, as well. I like that sandwich too. I would eat the hell, like he's got the sandwich as well in the background. I want his sandwich. So this woman is great. isn't she? Yeah, I thought so. I was waiting. I was constantly waiting for her to be sabotaging things. Actually, the relationship she has with Reed. Yeah, it's really nice. She does sabotage things. She does do something about their senses or like taps into them or something. So she is also kind of bad, but she's got this. She has a real 60 Star Trek look to her, not the jumpsuit or anything, but I know what you mean. The hair, yeah. And the makeup, you know, the slightly like the dark blue, darker blue lipstick and things and the, I'm the eye shadow. Like just the way her hair and makeup are done. Make her look 60, which is glorious because that's where the Andorians are from. You know, it takes a lot for me to find Malcolm Reed tolerable because I do think he is and this season. Do you know what they did with him this season? They brought on those Macos, didn't they? These sort of military unit. You're going to need proper soldiers. And so he's got a huge problem with the macco leader. And there's a whole episode where they're slugging it out and beating the shit out of each other and you're just like, oh, Reed grow a pair, will you? And just he's here to help you out. So whenever they make him sort of sweet and funny, and you remember when we were in congenitor when they were feeding cheese to each other? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I felt like, you know, whatever they do things like that with him. Well, I think he and her, that subplot is really great. And again, that's the problem. I wish that I wish that there'd been some pushback against the general's commands. I wish, you know, if we're going to do this story, you need to see them grow. You don't, you know, it undermines all of this nice stuff to have them just turn up here because they're stealing a weapon and no one cares. Like no one has kind of decided that it's, like, it's just crappy. And the same thing. I think Sharan should have been smart enough to sort of obey the orders and help out Archer on the slide at the same time, you know? And and then you've got the same thing too, where there's this problem between the Andorians and the Vulcans, and we know that they're part of the founding races of the Federation, and we know that the, you know, the humans and the Vulcans have problems as well. But quite serious. It doesn't, um, doesn't tell us say that her uncle or her milkman or something, her primary school teacher was killed in a, in, like in some kind of uh, conflict with the Vulcan. So it's a proper conflict. How do we get to the from that to the federation? We just... unfortunate side effect of the show being cancelled after 4 years because we were heading in that direction and we were going to see it. Well, they said they said the ultimate endgame for the show was to see that formation. So they could have done that. Yeah, yeah, but I guess we need to go like something needs to happen sooner than this. You know, like what you set up the, this, I just love how chill trip is here. Um, you know, they set up, you know, they set up this conflict, but it never goes anywhere. you know. I love this. I love her reaction where he says hand me the spanner and she says like, doesn't she later say, can I get you a coffee and stuff? Yeah, there we go. Like... And he says, yeah, that'd be nice. Cheers. Thanks for the hospitality. But I don't know if you remember, jump back to the pair of us doing strange new world in series one, which was a nothing episode with 0 substance. It was a standalone with no consequences at all. Nobody was learning anything, you know, and there was no character development. This is a completely different show to that. This is a lot better than that. agree. So they've learned some lessons. Yeah, yeah. Oh, no. Like I say, I've got real reservations about where this is going and the whole premise, but the fact that they've decided to junk their previous premise, do something interesting, change the premise of the show up the stakes, all of that, since they're clearly incapable of creating just a Star Trek series, you know, I like the fact that Reed is willing to apologise. I've been rude as well. Yeah, because I met on this show, I generally just, assholes yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I love that relationship. I love that ship too. The Andorian ship looks great. I know. I think that enterprise is so boring. Look at that. Well, again, they were gonna do more with it, weren't they? They were eventually going to add the thing. I thought there was like, there was like a bigness to the guy, the next generation surprise, you know? And there was a sort of a magic about the TOS one. This one just it just feels like a little tinker toy flying about yeah, It's funny, isn't it? Maybe it's just the absence of that secondary pull thing. Yeah. I don't know Oh, Hoshi? coming in. There you go. Oh, there you go. She got a line. Good on you, Hoshi. I wonder what, um, Australian culture. Go back to what you were saying earlier. What's the alternative? Saying pink plus... Dot, dot, dot skin. I just think maybe it would just, it's not a good enough gag to be cluelessly racist for, you know. Do you remember what they went for with DS9? Solids. Yeah, yeah, yeah Well, I was thinking... Toasters and skin jobs on Battlestar Galactica. You know, I mean, that's kind of racist, isn't it? But still, you know, it's not racist about human beings and the default skin colour be pink, for God's sake. Yeah, yeah. Only on enterprise. Very bad. Ill, you know, they're just not thinking. I do think, um, Scott Bacular, whilst he does some morally, sort of catching Archer does some morally uncomfortable things. He is afforded way more opportunity to show what he's made of in this season. Yeah, yeah, I just think here where the climax is him just turning up on the ship issuing threats and being a massive asshole, that's boring. You know, like we joke that, you know, Captain Picard might give a big pompous speech or something like that, but he does that because he values diplomacy and thinks things can be solved by, you know, without conflict and Archer doesn't get a chance to do that at all, you know. He doesn't get to make an appeal. He doesn't get to do anything. just says, I'll blow you up unless you do what I say. and that's super boring. Sorry to bring this down to a me level, but Connor Trini is so pretty. So pretty beautiful. Isn't he? Yeah. Yeah, see, I think this scene is very good. And I was worried that they were ruining his character by giving him, you know, by killing his sister off and then making him super angry about aliens, you know, that so he gets to become the racist that he appeared to be in strange new world. Um, but this, like he's got a kind of grown up response to this you know, he's lost someone very dear to him, um, yeah, all of that sort of stuff, but he won't take revenge even if he kind of feels like he would quite like to, you know. In the episode that comes after, as Assy Private. So the Enterprise is literally just stuck in space because it has been taking such a beating. And it's called damage the next episode. So they're basically repairing the shit throughout the whole episode and all hope is lost. And one of his engineer crew has died and he has to write the letter to the family. It's a woman, isn't it? Yeah. And, you know, and he really struggles and has a bit of a breakdown over it because it's essentially his sister. Yeah, and it's really well done. Yeah, look at him. He's saying ideally love to get hold of the people who who did this, but, um, you know, I'm not going to. We're here to just stop it from happening again. I do like it when you get those occasional moments between both sides. Yeah. Where there's common ground, you know? That's right. Even the thing here too, where he does agree to share the injector. He's reluctant to share the antimatter injector, but he'll do it because he's been convinced and just this, that relationship building stuff isn't nothing and just making that all a waste of time or, you know, we've been duped because we were participating in that. That's miserable. Fuck, that thing looks great. Doesn't it? It looks so good. I wasn't entirely convinced about the planet blowing up, but later on when they return to the planet and it's just in fragments, I was like, ooh, that looks... It looks really good. Just the design of it. Like nothing. It's like nothing in Star Trek. Can you sort of think of sphere? Oh, look, it's an angry insect. And those insects, yeah. But, you know, it's just a sphere, like the Borgs. It's just like, you know, like another, another solid. But I think that looks magnificent. So good. Degra's hair is so stupid. Here we are again amongst the, the, the Zindi. Yeah, yeah, they're so boring. Why do they have hair? God, I love this. This bit where Schwan turns up and says, hello. I'm from the Andorian minding Corporation. He's so genial. And he does archer, right? He talks about archright and then just looks, looks off camera. And he plays it with this sort of wistful tone, doesn't he? Oh, I have no idea. What was going on? Very jolly. He's being super genial. And then he, then he pretends to get angry at the end and he's not going to share any of the archery with the, with the Cindy. But do you remember when we were watching the change in face of evil? Yeah. And where every single performance was as fun as this. This is the problem here is you've got this very dour, boring cast of characters. And every now and again, a colourful character. Look how much fun he's having. Standing long shot. doing band motion motions. I think they're a bit embarrassed about this sort of thing. You know, this this sort of very broad, very colourful characters but you and I know, that's some of the most entertaining Star Trek. Yeah, absolutely it is. They're trying to be gone, you know, like they're trying to be serious. And they don't really. I mean, they still do preposterous high concept things. You remember, you know, soul bore. Don't you recognise the face of your enemy? That's what we want. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. No, these aliens are super boring, I'm afraid. Do they get better? I was reading about them and apparently, you know, they start to take different, you know, they start to have different attitudes towards the humans and the plan and all of that sort of thing. Because the individual characters aren't distinct enough and the relationships aren't fun enough to sort of buy into none of it matters. Yeah. No. No, no, no, again, like you, we were watching Damar and Wayoon. Yeah. Change the face of evil and that sort of back and forth they were doing. You can't get any out of here. No, okay. I mean yeah, we can't even name them. Can we? Can you name anyone other than Degra? I mean... Yeah, Tucker Smallwood is playing a character called Zindi Primate Counsellor. you know, and. Is this like useless, isn't it? they've looked over their shoulder at DSI and God, that works, but not taken the time to see why it works. Yeah. Having a thing made up out of whole bunch of crazy aliens that worked really well on Deep Space Nine, we'll do that here, but that's not what it was. Gosh, she's good. She's kind of sexy, isn't she? Yeah, I liked that too, and there is a little bit of a fresh song between them, which is kind of nice. I think that's really cool. Your sometimes will worry me, you know, the more we do this sometimes, Star Trek Project. You're admiring the ladies more than the men, you know? No, I don't think I am, but I... Do you remember Hammer in the Masterpiece Society? Yeah, she was pretty great, but, um, you know, there's still Connor Trinier is the prettiest person in this car. She's got like purple lipstick on as well. Yeah, it's blue. Like, it's just slightly darker blue. it looks terrific. She looks so good. I think her best bit of this is when Archie goes, okay, fine. take us out of here and she just stares at the console because she knows what's about the portrayals about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the camera goes right in on her. Like, oh, I'm not going to do what you tell me because this isn't how it's going down. Yeah, yeah. But and again, there's some things that don't make sense there, I think, and we'll get there. But this is nice, isn't it? Like that thing where she says your father is probably very disappointed in you. And I thought for a second, oh, she's really kind of blown it that's a terrible thing to say, but she's right. And he agrees. He says, yeah, you know, like I'm on an exploration ship instead of a warship and the Royal Navy was his life. Like, I think that was good. That was actually like a good piece of dialogue. See, she's doing something here. That's her fiddling with the senses, which we find out later. We're back on the bridge now. So there's a good chance that Hoshi or the other fellow whose name I can't even remember. Yeah, Travis. May get to say, oh, no, you got a close-up. You got a close-up. It's very pretty, isn't he? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Here we go, dude. The weapon is now. And look how it aims. All of those sort of rings and things on the surface come together. That looks great. Actually, no, that does look good. yeah. Some of the stuff in, like, in the that two-part finale near finale that we did, Tara Prime. You remember the thing taking off and then landing on the... Yeah, but it looks a bit like a cartoon. and I think V looks better than that. Oh my god, look at the big, big subtitles. Like, you're watching it with subtitles. But whenever the insects speak or the whale people, they have big subtitles because we can't read very quickly or something. It's that, you know, I do like the... I do like the whale people. No, I do, but I like the idea that... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like, why are aliens always just Americans? Yeah, we're always just covered in latex and we're not doing, yeah they're all... But I mean, look at the look at poor old Rick Worthy there or whoever it is. Rick Worthy, yeah. Yes, very upsetting. In the next episode, right? They kidnap Degra. And the whole 1st act is Degra and Archer on this shuttle that we don't recognise. And he's like, you know, we got away. You're all right, your memory's gone a little bit and it turns out the whole thing is a massive con. They've built this shuttle in their shuttle bay and they're pretending and then he comes out and the whole episode is about trying to con him into giving the information about the weapon. It's really well done. And when he starts figuring it all out, just constantly having to like improvise and think on his feet. Yeah, okay. Oh that sounds really good. I think that's where Degra starts to sort of land on his feet and become a bit more interesting. And so this character. Like there's payoff from a previous episode about the chemist site being interfered with by an arboreal Zindi or something, like Zindi, Lemur guy. Yeah, I don't remember that too much. You know, every time I hear the word chema site, though, you know I don't know if you recall in little green men, it's the chema site in the hole that Rom has to eject, which sends them back in time to the Roswell. And they do this whole speech about chemosite, which is full of Star Trek Technobabble. And Rom just goes on and on and on and Nog and Quark look at each other like, what the fuck is he saying? Every time I hear the word human side, I just think of it. It must be from original trek, though, isn't it? Like, surely, it must be from original track. Rom Moore, Brannan Bragger, they love cherry picking those records. That starts, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The Pike City pioneers, you know, that's what I think. Yeah. Yeah, with all of that stuff's great. You know, that is a thing that enterprise does. Like it, it is really, strictly speaking, a sequel to 1st contact but they make it very Star Trek-y, you know, with the, Andorians and the, and the, um, Vulcans and stuff. Do you wonder if these 2 shouldn't have had a little kiss? No, actually, I just like the fact that they're working together. You know, they're aliens, they're very different from one another. They find some common ground, you know, and like it has an effect even though I don't like it. you know, it's a, it's kind of a bit sad that it's all a ploy, you know. Like, but as you're watching it, you realise that it's got to be a ploy because I was here waiting for, you know, like there's no way that that's the trouble. The twist is so obvious. Like, what else could it be? Well, remember like in in the best sort of early DS9 episodes where, you know, you had like Kai Winn arranging that whole thing with the school, just so she could assassinate Vedic Barra. you know, that was clever. Yeah. Or, you know, to cut in Kardassians when he's trying to bring down Garak, that, yeah, you're right. You're just literally waiting for the inevitable. Yeah, yeah. If it's called like a sleight of hand somehow. I just had a sinking feeling about it. Like I just sort of thought, oh, this stuff's nice. This is them. It's the same. Do you remember when they're, it's Andreas Katsulis or whatever the guy from, um, cogenitor. And, you know, like they're getting on together and all of that and all of that's sort of really fun and nice and then it goes to hell because it turns out they have, you know, the enslavers and staff. Oh my god, we still can't get the eyelines right in these video conferences, can we? What's he looking at? In somewhere off camera. This poor actor, he's just a face on a screen. Yeah, yeah. 4 hours in makeup for that. Staticy screen at that, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's someone but I don't quite know who. I like this shot. Did you know what, right? Can I tell you, I, nothing to do with this, but I picked up the Star Trek Voyager season 2 DVD box set for a pound the other day. Oh, okay. And on it was a day in the life of Ethan Phillips on the set of Star Trek Voyager. And we see him at 3 o'clock in the morning going into his trailer and then it sort of does a fast forward bit where you see all the makeup going on. He's all right, this is 5 hours later and I'm ready to go. So that fella's gone through all of that. Neelix's makeup is a little bit more elaborate than the Andorian makeup, I think, but yes. Well, the funniest thing is, the day they chose, he went, well, I had 3 lines that day. Crap. Wow. God, the more I'm looking at this woman, they're all beautiful. She's looking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Luscious locks. But she just sort of made the, made the, a bit fuzzier and puts some volume. A bit like original Star Trek. It could be 60s track. But don't you think it's a shame that all of that is just a ploy to get a weapon? It's so boring. It's much more fun if there was any pushback. If there was anything that indicated that that Tran didn't like this idea or was being forced to do or found a way of doing it that satisfied the general that didn't ruin the relationship because like... Trouble is, it makes it all pointless. Like you said, it undermines all of that, all of those, um, the progression of the relationships that we're seeing and it's just for our benefit just to trick us. So the twist works. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's a great shame, I think. And yeah. Yeah. It doesn't mean the scenes themselves are fun to watch. No, but I think the episode is flawed. Like, I think that's the problem with the episode. that the twist is super boring, that it ruins everything that came beforehand and that that it was nice. It doesn't all have to be terrible. You know, like they're under pressure, they're, you know, bad things are happening to them. And can't we get out of it by having allies and stuff? You know, like, do we always have to be yelling at the station recently, have we? They frown upon this sort of thing. Oh no, their federation is not a thing yet, is it? No, no, but, uh, you know, staff in the captain's share. Yeah, I always love that. Yeah, look at the planet. Look at the planet with the shit blown out. of the... grab the weapon. Yeah, I think that the reptilians have great ships too, like, or whatever the fuck they are, the, you know, those ships look really good. we go. I think even if the technology wasn't always there. The people doing the CGI, the imagination. You know, there are times when I think Voyager, CGI looks really good, but maybe it's just not quite as ambitious. They certainly do things like Planetscapes and stuff like that in Voyager that look magnificent. I can't help but notice, you know, this bit where she knows he's going to turn on him now. Her antenna is not going crazy. Yeah, yeah. And there's a bit of a tale with the Andorans. There is one thing where I laughed out loud where, um, where Strans antennae just went suddenly erect for some reason when he was surprised. They just like, that sucks. when he drinks the ale. And then suddenly he goes, ooh. So now, yeah, like you said, well, that wolf is gone and Archer just gets to be a ranting sort of bully again. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. I don't even know why he has to go on their ship and order them around. Like, it's kind of like we're going to go. he says Oh, we'll go and help you. And he said, oh, do you mind if I come and look? No, no, no, he has to come and be in charge. Like, why is that? Well, I can't trust them, Nathan. not a respectable white man, you know? Yeah. Yeah, so see this, the shouting and the bullshit, like it's so crap. It is very crap, and here's the word pink skin again. Yeah. Yeah. So what are we going to do? We're going to have an all out war between these 2 ships in the middle of, no, I think we both know it's going to end quite tidily. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, like we don't get to see it, but their ship is disabled and they can't get anywhere and so presumably they're fuming and frantically repairing the ship. But and we don't see that. But like, fuck off. You know, like punching people in the face. want a prick. You know, I just think. And I did, I did say earlier, you know, causing the fact this, this is a season with consequences, but actually none of this. Really? Faxes into anything. Again, when we watch Change of Face of Evil, all of that stuff Windkilling, Soulbore, Demar, defecting from the Dominion, it all meant something. Oh, yeah, that's a soap opera. That was... That's why it was exciting because we were like, shit, well where's this going? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and this could have gone somewhere. This could have gone somewhere, but they chose not to, but it is just that like the cheap twist and a fist fight seems like too little, like that's a shitty payoff for something that could have been more interesting than that. There's not enough focus on Reed either. The episode has devoted about 10 minutes to the 2 of them and they're... what happens when he's betrayed, you know, and he's discovered that she has interfered with the senses, which they've just noticed. I mean, maybe we get a reaction show or something. But here too, like here, Shran, has he been drinking? He's got the things on the table. He's a bit kind of thing with the general. Is he going over there? Like, what's he doing? I want him to transmit the thing? Like someone transmits the thing. So there's no price to pay for Archer being an aggressive shithead at this point because they get the information anyway. But who sends it? You know, like that matters, I think, in a way. It can't just be, you know, someone who cared enough to send this and maybe there is hope for our relationship after all because they don't do any of that. But there is sort of a suggestion that he feels bad about it. He's sitting there in his room looking a bit forlorn a 2nd ago wasn't he? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think he's basically doing it because those are his orders, but He does have a friendship with Archer at this point. What about this? This is Archer thanking him for sending the censor to Lemetry, only to say, and we know the activation codes as a result, and so we're going to blow you up. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's fucked. I just, you know. I think this is supposed to be an incredibly tense moment now, but it's like, Willie, release the weapon or not. Oh, yes, who cares? Like, I just think this spoils it, and it's a shame because it was a pretty great episode until now I was having fun. And I think that that's the problem here generally with this season is that aliens are the enemy. And they've gone down that route of, yeah, at whatever cost. Yeah, stop this thing. And as you said, you know, we did that in anomaly. We've done it. We do it a couple of times. And, you know, he deems to look a bit sad about it for 5 seconds and then moves on to the next episode. But what about the drama that's created when you don't say and whatever cost? And you have something that you can't do because your principles forget, you know, prevent you from doing it, even if it's the thing that you have to do to save Earth? And that's what they do in Discovery season one finale. They have the choice to blow up the Klingon home world and put a stop to the war and instead they say, no, we find another way of doing it. And they find another way of doing it, which eventually leads to friendship between the Klingons and the Federation, you know. Well, that's basically what they do, what you leave behind, is when they go to Cardassia, and it's like, right, we're going to take them all on, and Odo goes, no, I'm going to go down there and talk to her. There's a better way of doing this. And then she straight away says after that talk, which I think is 2 seconds in screen time, about 15 hours in founder's time. No, you know, disarm the ships. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, here we go. Oh, what? Is he going to gloat? I like this is this is the other problem of enterprises. They do feel the need to put in an action sequence in every episode, whether it needs it or not. And maybe this would have worked better as a character piece. It was, you know, going along quite nicely, just as character seems. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, there's enough stuff to do with the weapon and things, you know, you could give them an exciting space problem that was there, you know, was the action sequence. It doesn't have to be conflict between Andorians and Earth people that, you know, that motivates the action sequence. It can be something else. Yeah, see these. I do I do like, you know, they've got the data now, so it's another piece of the puzzle. is inching it along. like all of that. But they don't get the data by being clever or by being kind or anything like that, you know, just someone, for some reason, sends it to them or we never know who or why. Because that's what the season needs to progress. That's why. Yeah, what if someone felt that the relationship between humans and Andorians was important and that they wanted to further it and maybe we're supposed to conclude that from this, but it's not really quite enough, I think. So, essentially then, may I do think there are some very strong episodes in season three, but I think the sort of the whole is more exciting than the individual pieces for the most part, which is not usually the way in Star Trek. No, no. And like I'm with Billingsley. I think that this is a misstep and I think it's a betrayal of the politics of Star Trek. I think it's a bad thing. I think Voyager is often a bad thing for the same reason, you know Star Trek hasn't universally followed those principles and in a way, the only era of Star Trek that really cares about them is the current era. Um, you know, there's there's gestures towards it all throughout Star Trek, the Next Generation, but it's pretty quickly abandoned and uh, maybe genes, the one who is responsible for, for it although there's not massive amounts of evidence for it in original track. necessarily. But, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I think that the whole thing is misconceived, but the advantage of it is, it makes the show more interesting. It gives it stakes. It does things that could have been cleverly done some other way but the things it does are pretty good, I think. I think it makes the show better television, even if it is more troubling. And it does lead to some of the best enterprise episodes and the few episodes where you can say this ranks amongst some of the better episodes of the other series. And this show doesn't, you know, it doesn't get that high very often, you know? Yeah. Well, we've covered some pretty dreary enterprise episodes so far. Oh, sure. But like I think all of the ones that we've done are kind of memorable. I think there's a lot to be said for cogenitor, I think, unexpected has a lot to be said for it as well. You know, they're not perfect and they're stupid in places and whatever, but that's kind of Star Trek anyway. And Strange New World was memorable by just how unmemorable it was. Yeah, no, that was right at the beginning of the road. Yeah, that was properly dreadful. Does this encourage you to go ahead and watch any more of season three? Yeah, I think that series, I think that season 3 is probably the one that I feel worst about not having seen all of. And I did have a, you know, like I binged a whole bunch of it one time, but I was, I don't know, drinking red wine and doing web development at the same time. Oh, right off. proper attention. Amazing messages to me at the time. This is a complete betrayal of the rotten game. But I, you know, like I think I probably should watch, I think I probably should watch more of it, to be honest. Yeah. I think one day I've just got... I hate this. I think it might have been anomaly. I think it might have been anomaly. Yeah, yeah. That might be our greatest diversion, is that one? Yeah, I like one episode called Anomaly and you like the other one. Well, it's the end of the episode and it is time, of course, for us to work out what we're going to be watching next time. I was the one who chose Enterprise last week and that means it's your turn, Joe, to pick one or more series for us to choose from. Hmm. Well, it's been a long time. Oh, we do another end. Surprise episode. brilliant. do that. No, no, no, no, no. Since I last chose every series on the round. Oh, okay, all right. Yep, you can do that then. So I am going to put them all in. There's a lot of taps now, isn't there? Original series, animated series. Films, Next Generation, Deep Space 9 Voyage, Enterprise, Discovery Short Treks, Picard, Lower Decks, Prodigy, or Strange New Worlds. Okay. Here we go. It's exciting. Oh, bloody hell. It's a film. Oh, what is it? You busy next week? I'll have to read that fucking book I bought as well. It's Star Trek 5, the final frontier. I would so love to do that, but I don't know whether... I'm not sure what have the time, you know. Let's keep that to a special occasion when we've got a little bit more time. Oh, it is an enterprise episode. Your random Star Trek Enterprise episode is season one, episodes one and two, Broken Bow. Bo. Bo? Broken bow. I'm not sure I want to watch Star Trek again after that. Super boring, isn't it? We will have to do it at some point, but yes, I think you're right. Oh my god, yes, this is the one. Easy threshold. No, but it is a star of the next generation episode that I can guarantee that we're going to love. Uh, is it yesterday's enterprise because we've done that already? And this is the shocking part. It's a Dr. Beverly episode of Star Trek the Next Generation that we're going to love. Oh, is it Remember Me? It's Remember Me. Season. Episode five. Well, not Beverly, you and I are the only people in the universe. You know that. So brilliant. It's terribly good. Wow. Well, that's exciting. I know. Oh, okay, we have done a lot of nightish trek lately. If you're going to pick all of the series, that's going to happen almost certainly, but I think that Remember Me is an absolute classic. Desperate to watch our next generation episode that reminds me why I ever like the show in the 1st place. The only downside of this is, is we now would have done three three of Beverly Crusher's, 6 episodes in the runway are going to get many more, you know. She didn't get a lot to do. No, let's do it. so fun. Brilliant. Perfect. You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley. We're online at untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts. Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lahn. This episode was recorded on the 8th of August 2023 and released on the 11th of August. We'll see you next time for Star Trek the Next Generation. Remember me. Should I get a prompt? No, you never do. It's not actually recording. Let me run it. No that's not the right one. Oh yeah, no, it is recording. Okay, I'll have to make it show the thing. Oh, add some more stuff. No, that did actually work. Say something. Um, yeah. Season 3 of Star Trek Enterprise is dot dot adult. A betrayal of everything the franchise stands for. Oh, you would have liked episode eight. of Stranger Worlds. Which is... Well, I'm going to binge it soon. I'm gonna binge a lot soon. It's very much the siege of AR 558, only, you know. Yes I heard that. I heard that. It's a bit, yeah, but... excuse me. It looks beautiful, you know, and it's just sort of well told and stuff and it gives my Benga a great role and he's the best thing in the show. I'm perfectly sure that that musical episode was excellent, but that scene with the Klingons was just awful. No, then you have to see it in context. It's so great. I was like, this cannot be it. Everyone at work and watched it just went, oh my god. Look, I think the big problem is, we talk about this. Yeah. The big problem is that there's always the Buffy musical. Do you know what I mean? And the Buffy musical is the thing against which it gets compared. And I think the songs aren't... aren't strong enough for that. So I thought it was really good, but it's not the Buffy musical. I do think some of the numbers are great. I think fucking Celia Gooding, Junior, as I'll think, always think of her, is incredible. The reason why the Buffy musical works so well is because we were 6 seasons in, we knew those characters so well, and every song through new light on those characters. Yeah, and and like, although, you know, we observe before that the next time trailer is always about relationships between the characters are not about space things that are happening. So there are relationships happening between the characters, but the fact that these are sort of young adults that, you know, the whole of Buffy is about the relationships between the characters and the emotional fallout, that's the centre of the show. I love it. Yeah, yeah, I do too. And when you're young, you're all of that stuff is super operatic and, you know, you burst into song and stuff. I love it. Yeah, exactly. Whereas Star Trek isn't quite that. And so there are, you know, there's enough there to have songs about, but I don't just don't think the songs are quite as good as the, as the buffy ones. But I just thought it was really fun. And I'm so glad they did it. Um, you know, 2 episodes after the, after the crossover with our decks. like they're just absolutely... This is fine. And Jammer gave it 3.5 stars. How about that? Yeah. He does like the old and he gave Bem comedy episode. Which shows who's got a scintilla of taste. Terrified. I checked in too before he wrote his review, you know, because he opens the thread up and just everyone there was super positive. And the 2 people at work who liked Star Trek and like Strange New Worlds were raving about it, including one person who was really worried that it would break the show. And I said, look, you know, there'll be some bullshit space reasons for them to be all singing. And of course, there were. And he was fine with that. And so he thought it was really, like, it's really funny. Fraser's just found it and he's such a compreri bugger. It's not as popular. It'll find a reason not to like it. If something's unpopular, it'll find a reason to like it. And he started talking about Strange New Worlds and He said something uncomplimentary on our thread and I just went, don't, all right? Just don't. I know what you're doing. I said, and just enjoy it because it's a really fun show to be enjoyed. And then somewhere in mid-season one, he just fell in love with it. I'm really serious when I say I think it might be the best. Star Trek. Oh, I wouldn't go that far. Oh, I'm pretty close to go that far. I think, you know, deep say sign's a different thing. But I just think the characters are so relaxed. It's so beautiful. It so accomplished. There's such a great variety of stuff going on every season. My shoes, there ain't enough of it. I ain't got to be enough of it. Yeah, that's right. That's right. But, you know, that's how you get quality, I guess. I do like that sort of those 3 shows where we add 179 episodes. And, you know, there's so much of it that you can live with the shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, no, no, I agree. And the shit stuff is fun, but also it is the theme. No, like, it's the thing. Like, I think, you know, the whole 90 strike thing has PTSD after series one and 2 are so appalling and they kind of just go, we're just doing this and they raise the floor, but they don't raise the ceiling. Have I said this before? And so it never really reaches, you know, there's best of both worlds. There's there's stuff in 90 Streak, which is incredible, but here like I think they're braver than they ever were in the 90s and that's fun as well. And so you get things like the Elysian Kingdom and subspace Rhapsody and stuff. Sad thing about it is because it's like streaming. It's just getting a fraction of the audience, so those 90 shows we're getting. And so it doesn't have the, the, and it's competing with so many other genre shows now. Everything that it can't have the cultural impact that next generation had in the 90s. Yeah, I think maybe that's right, but it's hard to tell long term now. Like what happens now that there is so much TV, because if it was on CBS on, I don't know, when was Star Trek, like Saturday night at 7.30? I literally have no idea. Sometimes it was during the week, I seem to remember from looking at the air days on... Do you know what I mean? Like if it was there, it would be drowned amongst all of that stuff as well. There's no surefire way of getting a TV to be an event anymore except it's good and, you know, popular and on a streaming thing. I don't know, you know, I'm saying like 20 years time. People will say, oh, yeah, Star Trek, the Next Generation, and all those other Star Trek shows that came after. You know? Yeah, maybe. I wonder if people will remember Strange New Worlds. You know. Time will tail. Yeah. Yeah. But it is great. It's the only one I really get. The only live action one I get excited about. Yeah. I mean, I love discovery and discovery is in lots of ways more adventurous and strangely worlds, but in lots of ways it's safer too. It would never do an Elysian kingdom or a subspace rhapsody in a 1000000 years. Like that's absolutely not what it does. It is very serious. Um, but it also does sort of strange wacky things as well. I don't know. Not enough. Not as much. Yeah. I thought that, you know, I'm quite looking forward to saying goodbye to it because I think the final season's going to be pretty great. I was going to say something terrible then. I won't. Instead, let's talk about Star Trek and DeBrian. All right. All right, here goes. Hey, Joe. Hi. So we are for the 1st time in series.