The Masterpiece Society

Hey, Joe. Hi. So this week we are in what I think is probably a very, very normal day at the office for Star Trek the Next Generation. Does that seem reasonable? I send you a, I sent you a lot of messages while I was watching this episode through it. long before you watched it as well? And I think I said, this is Star Trek, the Next Generation, as written by an AI. You know, it's got all the elements in place. It's basically the most average written episode of, you know, like you said, everyone's defined by their jobs. There's a big space problem. There's a half decent science fiction idea at the heart of it. It's just very tedious. It's the trouble. I know you like this more than me. This is one of the most boring ones we've done so far. I think manhunt was boring because it was literally just trying to wait out the clock. We have no riders. We're just going to do some things until the closing credits rescue us and we can get on with our lives. I think this is a functional piece of television. In a way that like last week's Wolf in the Fold wasn't. I mean, everyone listening to this knows that we're talking about the masterpiece society, which is series 5, and series 5 of Star Trek, the next generation is really good, I think, on the whole like the level of quality is really good, and some of the episodes are great. I mean, we did Dharmok, which is obviously pretty incredible, but there's heaps of really good things. Annoying that the randomiser would choose. I'd say this is probably in the bottom 5 episodes of season 5 and it couldn't have chosen us, you know, gems such as Ensign Rowe, you know, cause and effect, the 1st duty, you know, top dollar drama. Well... Can I tell you what we were spared, though? Because I've got a quote here from Adam Bellenoth, who I believe had some input into the writing of this episode. And the original notion for the masterpiece society, he goes on to say, is not many elements from the perfect human, which is more it was originally called, ended up in the masterpiece society. But one of the things that did make it was the genetically engineered society. In the original conception, it was an idyllic community that contained essentially a 100 Dolph Lundrens, what's a Dolph Lundren? That's he's a kind of big muscle bound, um, actor. What is he? Is he Dutch or something? I can't remember. He's like a kind of Jean-Claude Van Damme sort of level action hero from a period. And so he's a sort of big muscle guy. I can't even remember what he's in. And Paulina. I'm going to try and say this, right? Porritz Covers, romping around semi-clothed, Adam and Eve-like. It was a beautiful blue lagoon colony, which sounds a little bit like justice to me. It does. Planet of the white people, horny white people. Yeah, I think that that's terrible. And what they do instead is kind of move away from that conception to a society that's racially kind of diverse and they definitely go out of their way to do that in the casting of the extras. And everyone's supposed to be like a Mozart or Feynman or something, you know, they're geniuses in their field. Do you get that from the actors, though? I didn't really get that these people were, you know. No, but maybe the society. No, but like everyone is sort of super brilliant. And so there's no problems and so everyone's super bored. The idea, isn't it, isn't it, that it's so perfectly judged, like you know, everything sort of slots into place in like a perfect society. So should somebody beam down from the enterprise, that throws the whole thing out of whack. Yeah. Yeah. And so what happens is this society falls apart, but it doesn't fall apart because anyone is doing anything very wrong. Like the enterprise is helping them. The enterprise is careful about the amount of contact. It lets the leader, Aaron Connor, decide the level of contact. I know. The leader, you know, lets them decide the level of contact that's acceptable. Everyone goes out of their way to try and help them in as minimally a disruptive way as possible, but it doesn't work and it shouldn't work, I think. And so, like, the problem is there isn't any analogue to this society, a genetically perfect society where everyone's a sort of massive genius. So like, I don't know how to feel about it. I do think that there are things that we can think about, and I do think that what happens to Aaron and Hannah, who's the kind of lead female guest actor, you know, that there's some sort of interest to be had there, and Picard gets a pretty good speech at some point during the episode, but there's... I think anybody, like, like this is, the potential downfall, this perfect society, which could contain some drama, but I think everybody's playing it sort of so flat. Yeah. By the end, they're just going, well, we're leaving. All right. Ta-ra. And it was like, well, where's the drama here? Yeah, yeah. No, and the closest it comes to drama is when Hannah fakes some readings in order to try and make them all leave. And that's super interesting. I cannot say, the camera lingered on her long enough. So I was like, something's going on here. Yeah, yeah. When that tip Geordie off, and so we deal with it instantly and it's over. So, I don't know. It is boring and no one is much fun to be around either. And I think that's a problem. Like, that romance, like, I think that that romance was sort of doomed. We'll talk about it as we go, but he isn't very good. Did you notice the way they kissed each other? I mean, there's chaste kissing and then there's the sort of that sort of duck face he gave her as he lent in. Yeah. Well, I think we can talk about that as it comes up because we've left the sort of horny Roddenbury approach to sex, which was kind of embarrassing, but perhaps better than the incredibly sort of sexless chased Berman version. Like, what's the better approach? Yeah, is it the ickiness of justice or the just the totally non sexiness of this? Yeah, yeah. And like, there's something, there's something here. We will talk about it. There's something here, but, you know, Aaron Connor is in theory attractive or the script wants him to be attractive. And Deanna's definitely attractive. So they're 2 sort of attractive young people, but they, they don't spark. And the only place that the script can think of for them to go is one of them falls in love with the other. And I just think that's a bit limp, you know, like it's stupid. It's a TV romance that blossoms and then is destroyed within the space of about 15 minutes. I was just waiting for him to say a lot. I knew it was coming. where he goes, you know, perhaps it's your flaws that makes you so enticing. I mean, someone has died. Did you a bit wear Troy confesses her, you know, indiscretion to Captain Bernard? and he's like what is the nature of your relationship now? I'm like, nobody talks like this. Can I just, can I throw a quote from Ronald D. Moore, who very, you know what? I like Ronald D. Moore commenting on Star Trek that he was involved in because he will be scathing if he needs to be. It doesn't work. He'll say it doesn't work. And he says, this is another example of a show that doesn't really work too well. We sort of show up a genetically perfect colony, which in of itself is starting to bore me. And when we get there, it's, gee, Troy falls in love with one of the people. I mean, you can't wait to get up and get a beer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that could have been funny. I think that could have been fun because we've seen what Marina is capable of, and we didn't have to wait until Picard series 3 to find that out, and this could have been much more fun had she been playing it more interestingly, but the show and the script wants her to be a good girl. Well, it is the truth, Nathan, that I have very recently seen a Troy Romance episode about 5 minutes before I put the masterpiece society on it, fact. upsetting. Because for some reason, I thought we were doing the price from season 3 this week, which features Troy getting down and dirty. This seems where she's all in a man's chest up. I mean, she's a bit of a sort of good time girl in that episode. It's a lot more fun than this. I couldn't wait to talk about that. It featured the bars and wormhole. It was defining the quadrants. You know, it was a genuinely sort of funny, sexy romance episode. And then 10 minutes from the end. I'm sending you these messages about it. 10 minutes in, you go, you do know this is not the episode that we're talking about this week right? I was like, oh God. Yeah, I thought you just thrown a random Star Trek on, and then it became apparent that you thought that that was what we were doing and it was a little bit crushing to say, I'm sorry, but this fun episode is not what we're going to be talking about. Do you know what? I do actually wonder if had I just watched the masterpiece society that I might have had a better reaction to it, but because I watched the Prime... But this, I mean, this is Star Trek the Next Generation's failure mode, isn't it? It's talky, everyone's standing around delivering speeches at each other. Everyone's their job, so no one, you know, ever has a laugh. Everyone's very stiff. Stock colony set number 52. Yeah, it's number one, isn't it? And even worse than the colonies say, is they try and do it like an area of grass and light it as if it's a park. I'm like, oh, stop. There's a park outside. You know what I was thinking the whole time. Apparently, apparently the, you know, they wanted to show the sort of desolate landscape outside the colony through that window, but apparently a sort of special effects terms at the time, that was a bit of a nightmare, but they insisted that it was shown on screens. So I happened to shoot around that bloody window with special effects in it. And so that was tiny everybody up in knots, production wise. I think, I think, um, he races this. He raises and he actually is quoted as saying that this is where season 5 started to cohere for him. So I'm wondering if his instincts are actually not as sharp as I perhaps thought. Well, I think that Pilla is probably responsible for the best relationship between one of the regulars and one of the guest cast and that is the scenes between Geordie and Hannah, because Pilla always wants to make it about our characters, which is the right approach. It's the thing that Star Trek learns during its run, that the shows have to be not about space things, but about our characters reactions to space things. And I think that there's actually 2 things that probably Peeler is responsible for that I think are a pretty good call. So, like, I think that there's things to be said for this, but I think there's real problems with the performance, and I think it makes Star Trek the Next Generation's problems really apparent where if there's a really fun performance or a really interesting idea, the show can kind of transcend those just basic problems. But here they're really very much on display. Do you remember when we watched PowerPlay, which was Troy and Col Meaney and Brett Spider, you know, taken over by aliens and holding up everybody and 10 forward. And I declared, oh, I don't know, maybe Star Trek, the next generation, isn't quite as good as I seem to think it was. I would kill to watch that rather than this time. Yeah, you see, I think that the failure of power play is different and I think the failure of power play is not to be Star Trek enough, that it's just kind of content to be a police procedural for a week, which is kind of boring in which the characters are not very good at. It does give Marina the chance to do some fabulous acting and stuff, which is pretty great. Which the philosophy society fails doesn't somehow. Yeah. Well, we should probably watch the thing, you know. We covered it in some, definitely. Do you think we've been putting it off? I think so. I do think I'm not pressing a randomiser this week and my one condition is it's an episode I know is good. After watching Lissa Wolf in the fold. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I need a firm reminder, Star Trek. All right, here goes. I'm going to count us in five, four, three, two, one, and we're off. There we go. Okay, so, um, these are new special effects that I have and that Netflix has, uh, and I think, you know, they were sort of fairly reasonable, the 1st go round. Oh, look, there's Ensign Gates. Is that the woman from your short story? No, no, no. No, she does come up, I think, in, in, what is she in? She's in clues. Every time we cut to the bridge. like, is that the way? No, no. You're going to have to explain about that someday. I will. Maybe I'll link to it at some point. That's into McKnight. Ensign Gates, which I think is pretty great. But you know, this very much reminded me of sort of series one episode, like when the bowel breaks. Do you remember that? When they visit Aldea, a perfect society where all your wish all justice and things like that, it is a bit of a throwback, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. But the trouble is, is we're in a season 5 now where, you know, all the music has gone down to a dull sort of mute yawn. The music is very, very boring, isn't it? Yeah, when I watch the prize, I'll tell you what, there was wall to-wall music in that. Okay, it was doing the cod romance music, but in my... So this is the planet. I don't think it even has a name, does it? And... Like, I think this is sort of this is very Star Treky stuff where they're just kind of talking about their jobs and things and that's kind of what I'm tuning in for when I'm watching this originally. So this is this is okay, I think. This is a hell of a cliche that we keep going back to, isn't it? Borgio, it's especially guilty of this. Turning up on a planet and saying, look, you've got a natural disaster coming. We need to help you out and then the planet going, no, we don't need your help. You know, we don't have strangers here, go away. And then throughout the course of the episode, they, you know, save the planet. See, this is kind of funny this bit too, because Aaron doesn't have his own office, so he's just on the set taking his call. And in the background... So there's Martin. He, he, he will actually react to the sorts of things that Aaron is saying on the call, which is really, really funny. I mean, it's so... What is going on with Brett's hair there? Yeah, no, it's always like that. Are you suggesting to me that on this perfect planet, these people are called Aaron and Martin. Yeah, well, they're from 200 years ago, Aaron and Martin. I mean, look at his zipper. Like, look at his outfit, for God's sake. Like their clothes are really shockingly bad. I mean, that's part of the fun of Star Trek the Next Generation, is it's very 90s, isn't it? And so everyone has this sort of terrible, terrible. Everyone looks like they've kept up from the gap, don't they? It's all very bright colours. so bad. It's super embarrassing I feel sorry for wrong Canada because actually he's a fairly good actor and he's lumbered with the role of just having to be in every scene going, we don't want anything to do with these people. You know, he's he's the guy that's stopping everything from happening. Yeah. in everything. He's the one that's wrong. As you usually say about Wolf. Yes, that's right. He gets to be wrong. Look at him like he's reacting to the background of this call. It's so funny, he's getting more and more cross. Yeah, that is definitely a CG shot of the holiday. Yeah, and it would have been one of those really nice kind of mat shots, one of those, you know, good match shots, which they can do in this period where there's a little bit of CG enhancement and things can move. So we had Hannah in the front of that shot there. So this guy's... Look at all their clothes. Awful. And then Deanna's wearing that thing, like that shocking thing. And that set looks just terrible. It just looks... You think that somebody would point out at some point, you know doesn't this look like the colony we went to in the vengeance factor and they all look exactly the same? They're all the same sort of stone work. Well, it's not stone, is it? It's cardboard, but yeah, yeah, yeah. But, but, but, like, I just don't understand why they can't go outside. Like, I can't understand. Is it cheaper? I guess it is. It's cheaper to light a fake garden. in a set, but risk it looking terrible. You remember in like, um, God, what's the episode? The survivors. where they go out onto that, just that house with a bit of grass. Yeah, yeah. And it's terrific. And, you know, like they find a building that looks spacy and futury. And you, like, that's probably the problem. Do you know what I mean? Like that's probably the problem. And what's the episode in series one of Voyager before and after where they go to that sort of sewage reclamation plant or something like that? But even that looks better than just going to a space. They're literally walking through a horse race area, just because it looks a little bit sort of out of space. But, you know, let's appreciate the effort that they did go outside. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And like, I don't know why they can't do it here, and it would work really well because if they're in a dome, but in, like in this sort of dome, making it look like they've got an environment that is like an idyllic garden rather than just, you know, like you saw the lawn there that they were standing on, it looked like a butcher's shop window, like it just wasn't very good. Yeah, so like they're kind of, I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, look at it. The idea is supposed to be, isn't it? got idyllic one side of the window and you've got desolation the other side of the window. That's right. But they're idyllic and my idyllic are 2 very different things. Well, but look how far away the sky is. Like, it's just behind that tree. It's really not very good. So here's what I think is potentially interesting here, right? There's nothing in the world that corresponds to this sort of genetic engineering thing. And I don't think that it's worth them doing an episode about eugenics, right? So what I think this is, this is a society whose principles were laid down by their ancestors 200 years ago, and for 200 years they've been living in accordance with what their ancestors have said their society should be like, right? And in fact, Martin gets referred to as a judge, right? Like, I think Deanna says, you know, is he like a judge, someone who judges the intentions of our founders? And I think that that sounds like America. Or it certainly sounds like conservatism, but in an American situation where you have the Supreme Court that rules on the how constitutional certain things are and does it, particularly at the moment, in a way that is supposed to be, here's what the people 200 and something years ago, thought our society should be like. And so these people live in this way that's been set up for them 200 years ago and they're stuck with it, right? So it's a conservative society that says everyone should have their place, everyone needs to behave in this sort of certain way. And so they do a good job of hiding that by giving that role to a black man and by having a racially diverse, a racially diverse cast. So what we get here, Christ, that looks shit. What the hell is that piece of art? though, like, you know, yeah. What's the blonde woman's name? She's very quick to decide, actually, do you know what? I don't want them. Yes. And, you know, the fellow that Martin, you know, that Troy has the romance with, he's very quick to go. flaws are quite enticing. So maybe, you know, our society isn't as perfect as we think it is. Oh no, it's Aaron, isn't it? Having the relationship, sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's only really, only Martin, that's, you know, he's not for 200 people. Yeah, because these people's kind of, you know, once we smash down their walls and they realise that there's, you know, 100s of 1000000s of human beings, you know, who work together and share this culture and stuff. I mean, life on the enterprise still has like really cheesy concerts where people play Chopin preludes and stuff like that. Do you know what I mean? But on top of that, because no one's a genius in isolation, right? Like Hannah here is like a physics genius and she's been programmed from birth through her DNA to be a physics genius, but that's not how you get a physics genius. Physics people interact with one another. They bounce off one another. They're part of a world, a community of physicists who publish and read each other's staff. contrasting with a community of the same people. That's where you get your genius, the best and the best. That's right. And so, and so when these people turn up, and you do get this from Hannah, when these people turn up, they just outclass her in every sense. And we see her being brilliant in those scenes with Geordie, but she can't compete with Geordie because Geordie has had the advantage of the input of 1000s and 1000s of genius. Very humbling for them, especially if you have been brought up to think you are the best. So what about this bit? What about this bit, right? where she says I'm going to stay behind and Riker kind of gets a little bit pissy. It's kind of like, you're going to fuck this guy, aren't you? And then he comes... Like he's playing it. Like he thinks that she's going to hit on him now and he's a little bit annoyed by it, which is kind of delighted. I'm really pleased we got an episode like this because this is the perfect example of the one shot romance that fails dismally. And I think it's partly in the writing, but I think it's mostly in the performance. They just don't have any chemistry. No, they don't. And like, I'm telling you now, that fellow that she's, she literally jumps on in on the bed in price. It's hot as hell. He comes, he comes up to her and he just starts grabbing her hair and pulling her back and it's all a bit sadomasochistic, yeah. I should watch that after this. So this guy's been in the show before. He's the pretty Romulan who gets stranded on the planet with Geordie in the enemy and he's really vulnerable. Much, yes, performance. I think he's doing his best to try and sound like a leader. And I think he has some success. But I don't think he's pretty enough for this role. And I think that she should find him amusing because I think that because, do you know what I mean? Do you know what angle they go to? perfect politician. They go for the eggwood and Picard also, you know, this perfect society. Is this what you'd want, Deanna? And she actually stands there and goes, am I, actually? yeah. And I'm like, no, Deanna. Yes. Well, that's it. Like, this is like, it's not super flattering to have this guy come onto you because you're the 1st person that he hasn't met before kind of ever. Right? And so now he has the chance to have sex with someone who he hasn't seen every day for several decades, you know. I think like this is one of those Star Trek societies where everybody is like giving a very balanced performance, you know, and because they are supposed to be so enlightened and all of this nobody could be passionate about anything. And you can't have a romance without fucking passion. Yeah, yeah. But you see, I mean, I quite like these 2 and they're doing they're doing work. So this is Geordie and Hannah, and I like Hannah's performance. I think she's the best here. She comes back twice in Star Trek. She's in a DS9 and an enterprise. She's one of the very few characters in DS9 that learns just how big Odo can possibly be because they have a hell of a romance in that story. Yeah. Simple investigation. Check it out. Right. Is she a sort of femme fatale in that? Uh, no. Well, she's working for a sort of gang and the Odo's investigating. It's not great, if I'm honest. You know, later on when she's on the Enterprise. Did you know it? She's in like a, she looks very 80. She's in like a skirt and blouse. And I'm like, they're not even trying to pretend we're in the future anymore, are they? Look at his look on his face. He looks so weird. I think she's beautiful and I think that helps as well. Yeah, so he's Martin again. Yeah, this violates the intentions of our founders. And he's got and nobody's got any emotions, but actually, poor Ron Canada's having to act every scene with this sort of anger, isn't he? Yeah, yeah. I think so for me, I think the thing is that this society is stultifying. Like it's it's called the masterpiece society, I think, because of their conception that everyone here is a genius. everyone hears a list or a Beethoven or a... How did they come to be? How did this society appear on this planet? Is that explained? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like they're from 2000 years ago or something, they don't even know what a transporter is. They came here on a ship and built the thing. I don't know. So it like they just kind of, so they're humans. And that's the other thing too. Like they're human beings and the one speech that I really like the one thing that I like is when Picard says, if they want to leave, I'm going to take them, you know, because they have the right to leave. And that's the point. This society only functions if everyone does as they're told. And the moment that people are discontented. And so that's why I think, and there's a dark underbelly to this scene here. This scene here with Picard, where... Well, he's appalled, isn't he, by the idea of genetic modification. And this is the, this is what they run with with Star Trek, because when Bashir turns out to be genetically enhanced in DS9, like he faces prison sentence, even though that was done against his will. Yeah, but isn't that isn't that the result of Star Trek 2, though isn't it? The, the, the, whatever wars, the, the, the, the, that doing eugenics. It can work. Yeah, yeah. I mean, You mean, you just got to dial up the camp to 11. That's what I thought. right. Well, they kind of do that in enterprise as well in series four. But I think that the appalling thing isn't that they're genetically modified. It is that they're told exactly how they have to live and they're kind of bred so that they're compliant with that. So they just do that thing. And so that idea that there's no one who, you know, is a, like like you don't get to be a bad poet in your spare time, you know like you just have to do your job and if you happen to love something else, then that's kind of too bad. Imagine that. Can you imagine if every single episode of Untitled Star Trek project that we brought out was a peerless piece of podcast. Well, that's true, it is. But we wouldn't know what are the best episodes. Everything you did was perfect. Yeah. Yeah, but I think that I think that the issue isn't that everyone here is too perfect. I think that everyone here is too rigidly controlled and isolated and the moment they're given the chance to actually take control of their destiny, to make their own decisions about what they want to do for the 1st time ever in their lives, they say, fuck this we're off, you know, and fair enough. And so one of the things I dislike about this is Picard's final speech, which I think is just dreadful, not quite cogenitor levels of dreadful, but kind of along the same lines, you know. Maybe I'd switched off at that point. So you'll have to remind me at the end. Oh, I really like this scene in a minute, though, where Geordie says, oh, I'm so tired and then takes off his visor and she can't help but sort of stare and he says, I suppose in your society, you know, I would have been killed at birth. That's basically the inference. And she just says, yeah you would. Yeah, so it's not killed at birth. It is like when after fertilisation. right? And so there was some talk about whether this is a cogenitor. Whether it's an anti-abortion thing and they very, very clearly say, no, that's not what we were going for. But what I think is super interesting is that there are 2 solid hints. One in each of these relationships that this society is ablest and that by kind of invalidating, disable people's experience, it actually misses out on something. And the way that's made is that, you know, we discover something from the visor that's able to help solve the problem, right? So there's that, I love this though. Like, he's vulnerable. He hands her the visor she takes it. Yeah, this is the one sort of beat of character where I really felt something. Well, see, this is what I think is this is what I think is probably pillar. And so there's a whole range of human relationships, human experiences that they're just invalidating and they want to not happen. And it's a complicated thing. Do you know what I mean? Like people who are disabled, undergo all sorts of difficulties and hardships and stuff, you know, and their lives can be constrained in all sorts of ways. But I like that this society, this conservative society is ablest and later we're going to find out that they're racist. And I think that that scene is thrown away, and I think that what Deanna says is really biting in that, and I think it should have been given more teeth. I think it should have been absolutely telling. If, um, If the conclusion for this episode, which is them saying no, we don't want any part of this, because we've been shown that there are more interesting, more exciting, and more varied ways of living your life, if it is a foregone conclusion, is there any drama in this at all then? The 2nd they beam down, we kind of know where we're going. Yeah, maybe, maybe that's the problem. And it is kind of inevitable. It's what they fear. But they do go out of their way. Like we do see them trying to solve the space problem without intruding too much on the on the society, but we find like there's that 1st initial thing which looks like it's working where they move the stellar core fragment out of the way, then we discover that the buildings aren't reinforced enough, so we have to send 50 people down. They're all really gormless extras though. Oh, and it's literally, it's 5 people, isn't it? Rather than the five. There's 2 of them. It reminded me of the picture. You ever the fit in DS9's home front of Paradise? Also, they're like, right, we're going to beam down the martial forces and we're going to have people on the streets of Starfleet and it's 2 people with guns on the street. To be fair, even strange new worlds had difficulty with a big crowd in its 1st episode. That lady just had their, you know, Geordie about, you know, well wouldn't it be ironic if the solution to your planet's problem would be a blind man who never would exist in your society. Look at this woman's hair. She really needs that. I will have an issue with the Tetna babble that's coming up in a minute. Now, but I will say I very much was paying attention to Lavar Burton, because you're always telling me about how he sells it. And he does sell it. But man, it doesn't mean nothing. None of it means anything, does it? No, but like you, like it gives the impression that these are futury people who are very good at their space jobs and that's really the only thing that it's there for. I actually quite like this scene too. Look at that kid's hair, Nathan. Yeah, it's terrible, isn't it? I remember back when kids had that hair, like that was... That's, isn't it? Yeah, shockingly bad. So that kid's playing Chopin. And the, so is that a green screen? Because it just... I think it might just be a... I think it might be. Oh, of course, they go in front of that to have their big sort of romantic kiss. Yeah. Oh, yeah. If he's looking out on that dreadful set going, it's hard to believe we're going to lose all of this. Yeah, this... These few square feet of pot plants. Oh, no. Do you know what, right? Mark walked in just as this scene came on going on about Humpty Dumpsy. Humpty Dumpty. And he started going, oh, it's an old earth nursery rhyme. It's a metaphor for the situation that we're in right now. I was like, yeah, he's figured out Star Trek already. Yeah, I have to say that I do like the why do we tell our children such ghastly stories. I think is actually quite a good line. But I think what's the problem with this is, right? This doesn't need to be the love of his life, but that's all the script can think of going. It just needs to be someone he's never met before and then gets to have sex with. And it's like, holy crap, why am I here with all of these boring people? That's what they do have sex then. I just think they just had a question, eh? When she's apologising for a kiss. No, we're, look, so we're going to fade to black for the credits. She obviously had sex. Why is she admitting to it? Like fading to black in 90s trek covers a lot of sins, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah. But also there's that talk about her genetic material, and that's the great line. It's like, I'm half beta zoid. What are your founders gonna, you know, what do your founders think of that? Because they're big racists, you know? Like, it's, I think that's good and it only happens, doesn't it? He likes it. He likes it. a bit naughty. Does that mean then if he's genetically modified, he is an incredible lover? No, don't know. If it's as boring as its performance. No wonder. Almost immediately she goes, yeah, we can't do that again. I'm sorry. I think Martin is an animal in bed though. Like I, that would be, that would be my feeling. Not Aaron, though. look at what she's wearing now Yeah, it's great isn't it? It looks like she's wonderful. early 90s businesswoman. She stepped out of a movie, didn't she? She's got a sort of pink roll neck sweater. LA law is shooting next door and she's just talked about. That's a little bit too colourful, I think, but otherwise, that's a thing. But that's, I think that's okay. She's not wearing space clothes at least. Oh, here we go. Increase the efficiency at 300%. kind of a bit boring. Well, you'd be able to move the fragment as far as we'd like to. Oh, you'll. I have to say that I didn't mind the scene, though, where the 2 of them were working together to get it to move course, you know, and she's been in the reading. I know it's important scene because, you know, at least to a twist. But the dialogue, it just... So it's substantial. But that's what Star Trek is about. But they don't even write the dialogue in the script. They just put insert technobabble here. That shows you how utterly disposable the techno babble is. I liked her line where I'm still on enterprise time. I think that that's, It just makes, gives you a little hint into what their lives are like, you know. She doesn't strike me. as the woman that's had the right of her life. No, but she's, she's had, so she's had sex and I think she's seen the effect on him, but none of that's in the script, you know. Like, I don't buy this at all, like any of this. She says I'm angry with myself, but she's not really playing it angry, is she? No. Well, she? No, but that's that's Deanna. I think that's reasonable. Do you know what I mean? That line there. I could fall so easily. So bad. Yeah. I think there should be a dictionary, you know, of romantic dialogue from 90s trek. But why isn't it that they're just 2 young people. She's on a mission. They're attracted to each other. They have sex. It's the 24th century and we're not sort of fucking, you know prudes about all of that sort of thing. But it's a bad idea because in this, in this episode, so we just had a fade to the credits and it's on their relationship and I think we understand that that's a thing that's going to break this society. The next credits end with Hannah enjoying herself working with Geordie. And that's, that's what that seems about. It's not about the technobabble at all. It's about how much she is enjoying working with another clever person on a space problem, which is what Geordie gets to do every week, whereas she just gets to sort of stand around in this fucking set in all of her life, you know? And so 22 like the, the 2 cliffhangers to the 2 ad brakes are the 2 things that are going to destroy this society and it's not the stupid stellar core fragment. And yet they're still not dramatised in a way that I'm paying attention, you know? But do you know what I mean? Quiet moments. I get what you're saying. Yeah, I don't care. It's okay. You know, like it's not it's not what last week was, which was a barely competent piece of television. Like this is boring. Oh, everything. But it's complicated. It comes... The most unenthusiastic. Oh, we're here to fix the thing. Very cute Asian woman at the front. She just sort of looks around and goes, oh, a marvellous colony I'm in. That's right. How could we let this possibly be destroyed, you know? Oh my goodness. That bit of art there. It's so bad. Yeah. It's interesting you should say that about, because it's absolutely where we've gone with sex in discovery and things like that, isn't it? Because that 2 people can just be attracted to each other. They can fuck and just have a good time. And actually, I think we even get there in DS9 because Jazia. Anyone who's visiting the station. She's very happy to invite them to her club. So, what happened here? Well, I think that I think that it's happening kind of outside of the Berman purview a bit. Do you know what I mean? It's kind of they're letting things happen. on DS9. And so Deep Space 9 is allowed to do that. And that's an interesting grown-up thing. We were talking about, there's a scene in Picard series 3 where Riker and Troy talk about the changeling that came and, you know impersonated him. And that's funny, that scene, and they're making jokes about sex light grownups. You know, the, the, it's, it's terrific to see because it happens so rarely in Star Trek. And so, I don't know. I guess that's just not available to them because that would have been interesting. That would have been more interesting, is that they fuck. He kind of goes, actually, this is miserable. I want out of here. Not, oh, I'm in love with this woman I met a few minutes ago because that's stupid. And I'm really pleased that they push away from the idea of Geordie and what's this woman's name? Hannah. There's no hint of a romance between those two. And I'm really pleased about that because I could have very easily have had 2 dual romances and I think that could have been as terrible as each other. You see, I think that this scene works. I think this scene works not because of the dialogue, but because of her enthusiasm. Look at her come to life in this scene. She's so excited. And Geordie's kind of enjoying seeing that. So I don't think that that, that scene is about the technobabble at all. I think it's about how it's being played. But you know, I just don't care about the society. So I don't care about the outcome. So I don't care. Yeah, that's fair enough. Yeah, but I love her. And I'm just kind of, I think she's a beautiful woman probably. So I'm kind of, I'm on her side. Like I think she's charming. Patrick Stewart's really founded it in this week, isn't he? in the ready room, on the bridge. Oh, no, because he gets that scene with Deanna in the lift, which is coming up. Yeah, like, like now, I mean, I can't, obviously, I'm listening to this about the dialogue. This could be any next generation episode. Yeah, but that's the point, isn't it? Like we tune in for those scenes. Like we, I love seeing them do space things, you know, like that's part of why we're watching Star Trek. That's what it's for. I don't know if I like the procedural nature of it. So maybe that's my issue with TNG. Because I don't really get out with DS9. I think each DS9 episode is fairly unique. But the early ones can be a bit like that. And like, you think about how strange new worlds works, where it is just space people doing space things and solving space problems but it manages to be more charming and interesting because they crack a joke from time to time. And, you know, they're generally much more kind of, like, they're not space people from the 24th century. personality about them don't they? Yeah, yeah. You know, it's the way he's staring at that screen there and those 2 people just came into shot and sat down behind him and started chatting. Still an office, Aaron. Ahead of the colony. We're really trying to suggest this is a thriving community of 5 people. See, this is her response to having to beam down and it's overplayed, obviously, but that's what plays us out to the next ad break. It's like, 0 shit, now I have to go home, you know, and she doesn't want to go home because that was fun. She was having fun in that last scene and I think she sells it. I can't help but notice off the 50 people that were beamed down onto the planet, we've now just seen the same 5 people we saw earlier. Be Up again. Are they the same 5 people? They're exactly the same people. They're all somewhere else than in, yeah, okay, fair enough. They're just fixing the hot water in this part of the colony, I think, or something like that. He's not got a lot of charisma about him, this guy, is he? Aaron. No, he's really very good in the enemy, I think. I think Riker's looking at him like, man, this is no competition to me. asshole. Yeah that's right. I think he's playing like that. I think that's just us reading it. So this is the scene where, yeah, this is the scene where Hannah it looks like it might be interesting because Hannah's sabotaging the place or not sabotaging it, but faking readings to make it look like they have to leave. And that's credible as well. Like you can imagine that because we already had the, we've moved the stellar fragment. Oh, but that's not enough. Now we have to reinforce the buildings. Oh, that's not, you know, like these things can go wrong. Like it could be true. I think this is another reason why this reminded me of children at time. Exactly the same thing happens in that. They've got to take off from the planet, and they're going to create 2 defiance, and the DAX from the future on that planet fakes the readings. So they are, they definitely crash, so they're going to be stranded there so the company will exist. Yeah, yeah. But it's got a bit of personality in it. Yeah, yeah, it was Dax, right? But yeah, look, look at her. I think she's she's fantastic. So this is this is kind of a bit pathetic and... Have you noticed they're doing that fabulous thing where they both talk to the camera? We were both facing the same direction she's talking to the back of his head. Tell me, Nathan, have you had many conversations like that recently? No, none. Oh look, they're looking at each other now. She wears a bunch of outfits. That purple one she was wearing in the other previous scene was pretty great too. Well, they're all just sort of one colour, I've noticed. No, yeah, well, the purple one I thought was really good. Like, I like her. I don't know why. It's a whole thing. Well, I said to you off mic. This for me is the ultimate planet of the daytime soap opera actors. Like they're all competent. They're all good enough actors in the roles, but I just don't think anyone's injecting this with a bit of life. No, but that scene there is really properly good, isn't it? Like we're so perfect, how come you're so much better? Why did we not invent any of these things? And the obvious reason is that it's not a genius. Living in this colony. Living in the dark ages. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Until you came. All we could see was to the wall of our biosphere. I mean, this is top drama, this? I actually think the we're, it's like we're the parts of a 200 year-old joke is a pretty good line. Yeah. Yeah. And I also like too. Their attempt, because for a 2nd I thought maybe that's what we go with, because I hadn't seen, I thought, no, surely not. But there's just a moment of plausibility with the giver 6 months and where she says, no, like, let's just pull the plug. This is bullshit, we're going. You know, like there's all these attempts to kind of shore it up. Um, And no one here has done anything wrong. I think it's good. His doctor bed with her one line of the episode. massive hair. A contractual appearance. But like, right? I think it's annoying that Picard rejects this. I think it's annoying that the writers can't give him, like he's expressed his, um, feeling that this wouldn't be a place where he would want to live. It's clearly not a place where a bunch of people want to live once they're given any alternative at all. And then he says, oh, I think we might have, you know, destroyed them in a far more comprehensive way than the core stellar fragment is going to. And the problem with that is it's dumb because it was fun to have worked that out for yourself, you know, to have the threat be a stellar core fragment, but have the ad brakes be these 2 relationships. So it's boring. It's like, oh, it's okay, we were watching that. The next generation. No. pointing out what the... Star Trek generally, actually, to be fair. Do you know that sequence there where they were all around the table and Worf said, you know, oh, we saved them and Picard's going, did we? Maybe we are great. But we've seen those things over and over again about so much more interesting topics. Yeah, but I mean, the dumb thing is that the masterpiece society was shit. It was terrible. Those people were isolated from everyone else. And, you know, their whole horizon was so small, so close. And like, I don't know why you would mourn the passing of that society. Those people have been liberated from something super terrible. We're watching Star Trek The Next Generation, where they'll warp off into another episode next week and we'll never think about them. And we'll never hear it from the game. I'm wondering if that might be another bit of a problem with this is that we're never going to hear from these people again. We never go. Plan it again. But that's Star Trek. That's not what Star Trek's doing now. Well, no, no, but that's what this show is. It's on syndication. can be shown in any order. There's no serialisation. We just missed that scene between Deanna and Picard and I remembered it differently because I thought that Picard was cross with her, but she's super cross with herself in a way that I think is a bit pathetic. I, well, she says I made a very bad error of judgement. Oh, God, a dialogue in that sex with. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it's it's just kind of, you know, like she's a grown-up. She can have sex with who she wants. And like maybe this was a bad idea, but like she didn't kill anyone and it's like, you know... Do you remember in, I don't know, in the game. It starts with Riker on Reiser, you know, bonking that woman in the bed and putting the game on him. He didn't beam up to the ship afterwards and go, oh, by the way captain, you know, I had sex when I was down. Yeah. That was his holiday. Is it that she feels like she's kind of infected the genetic pool of the masterpiece. Not the genetic pool, but what, you know, the thing that really is the issue, which is that they're tied together not because they're genetically perfect, but because they've strictly limited any access to anything resembling the outside world. And so by having that relationship, I think, you know, Geordie did it just by having a kind relationship with Hannah and, you know giving her an interesting space problem to solve. You know what I mean? Like she didn't do anything like that. Cheersnate of the two. Interesting, but I think so interesting approach. But yeah. Well, I think that I think that that actor has a fair bit of charm in a way that this one doesn't really hear. Oh, Nathan, just look at their body language. Look at the dialogue. These things are so flat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's the other thing too. Like, I think it, if I had more sympathy with him, if it was a better performance than someone a little bit more believable, then him being left here to run this society. That's a miserable outcome for him. That's a very bad outcome. And he's just going to do it because he thinks it's the right thing, you know, and he's sacrificing what he really wants. So they're talking about suppressing human rights now. Yeah, but and that's it too. I think that that's that's actually kind of approaching being an interesting thing because they say, well, you have to let them leave. You have to let them leave because it's it's their right to leave. And he says, what about our right to live in a society where they do what we say? Do you know what I mean? Like, fuck off. You don't have that right. Just like, but no one's saying that. Do you know what I mean? Like no one's saying that. Oh, listen, we are, which we are witnessing the end of this existence. Yes, good. Good, good. It was dumb. You know, that's the thing. It was really dumb. And I think that, that, you know, there is something about Star Trek with a prime directive with the 90s where we are being kind of super relativistic and and taking account of people's cultures and not judging them and stuff. But these are, this is just like a bunch of people, you know, like I don't see why we can't say what you're doing. We brought together the entire colony of 20 people here, now? Yeah, yeah. Have you noticed the lighting hasn't changed? no matter what time of the day it is. No. Yeah, and we've been talking about how good that outdoor lighting is sometimes, but really it's not helping here, is it? I know what you said about Picard saying, you know, I won't change them away. If they want to go, I'll take them. That's good. Even him just going, look, I'm not going to force them to go, you can't force them to stay. We'll all just talk about this and they can make a choice. Boring. I'm sorry Yeah, because no one's standing up for anything. Like no one is standing up for anything. That's the issue. It's all bloodless, isn't it? It really is. It's very vanilla. Yeah, although again, like his Hannah's response for 6 months, to his suggestion, wait for 6 months. Why? Like, what are we, like, it's done. I think it's just because that is the hottest person on the planet. They don't want it to go. you know? Yeah, maybe that's it. She's the smartest and the hottest and she has the nicest range of day wear out of anyone on the colony as well. Like, that's, that, I'm not suggesting that she should become a regular on the show. But that would have been an interesting thing to play with. A character that has been brought up to think that they are the best of the best. Existing around all the people on the Enterprise. Yeah, yeah, basically that's the 7 storyline, isn't it? Affection, realising you're now thinking. thinking that too. I'm not saying this woman is Jared Ryan, but... No, but I think she's I think she's the best thing about the episode. Oh, even that's bloodless. We are all in a sense, your family. Just stop. We're going to stop that sentiment by just sitting putting words in a sense. that's right We just make the declaration of you being our family much less meaningful by pausing and putting that phrase in there. So what happens to the society next end, do you think? Next Stellacore fragment. shame. There should be there should be a line in lower deck, shouldn't there? Yeah, that's right. Actually, this would be a fun one to come or take the piss out like, revisit the masterpiece society. Oh, dear. One last walk around the colony set. It's just interminable. Call the episode. Like they're leaving. What happening now? All he's doing is telling us things that anyone watching the episode attentively would already know. It's... And it is also an out thing, isn't it? Like you said, you've always got one spokesperson. So it's just Hannah that's allowed an opinion in the episode. Everyone else sort of around it going, yeah, we agree. But and you know, the other thing that they're pointing out is a thing that's interesting but not very good drama, which is that no one's actually to blame. No one's done anything very terrible except for the founders really. Um, the, no one's to blame. The people on the Enterprise were doing the right thing. Aaron was doing the right thing. Martin was doing the right thing. Hannah was doing the right thing. It just failed. Yeah, that's right. No one's done anything bad. And that's why it's a little bit exciting to have Hannah fake the reading. I'm not fucking condemned for anything. Yeah, that's right. No one did anything wrong and yet it all just falls to pieces. And that is that can be an interesting story, that idea. Look at that shot. where she's just sort of there. I don't quite, she's feeling bad. One last pontificating moment from Captain Picard before we add. And a stupid speech from Picard. Just a stupid speech. Like we cause more damage than the stellar core fragment. Well, it was going to kill everyone. These people are off to do something fun and interesting with it given him a reality check at this point it went, sir, I don't know if this society was working, you know. we did a good thing. Yeah, yeah. Why does no one say that? Like, why does no one say that? Only Hannah says it. Yes, we've destroyed their way of life, but it was stupid and it does matter whether their way of life is stupid or not. It's not irrelevant. It actually matters. It turns out bad things are bad and good things are good and there's a difference between them. You know, not everything is all just, you know, like, like, yes they've destroyed the society and the people who've left are better off and then the people who experience the society so disintegration and decide to leave will also be better off, I think. I can't imagine an episode of the next generation, you know, that would feel more like staring at wallpaper than that. It's just, well, yeah, it's, it's, there is a tangible idea at his heart. But like you said, there is nobody you can blame for things going wrong in this. There is nobody injecting the wrong. romance of any passion. You know? So there's no real drama to any of it. It's just 45 minutes of people talking and then a decision being made and then we're off to the next adventure. Yeah, I think maybe the episode is like the story of the episode where no one's really done anything sort of terribly wrong here but it turns out that it's a disaster. Oh, could we have watched disaster? It's so good. I think that I think that's what Star Trek looks like when it fails. Star Trek the next generation in particular looks like when it fails, but only in the Burman era. Like it fails outrageously in all sorts of stupid ways in series one and two. But this is a particular kind of late Star Trek failure, I think. It feels like a particularly tedious lecture. But a lecture that's not really making a solid point. Well, it's like force of nature. worse, I think, than this. Yeah, but that's the same sort of thing where we've got a point to make, but it's basically going to be made by us all sort of standing around talking, you know, and I don't know. Yeah, that is particularly bloodless, isn't it? It's really lacking in any kind of drama. Do you know what? For once, I am not sure much revision could have been made to make this episode work. I think you're right. It is a flawed. I, a flawed premise, a foregone conclusion, and yeah, I would have enjoyed it more if Aaron had been better. And if Marina had been better, I think I would have enjoyed it more if they had validated the decisions that Hannah made because we are watching Star Trek and we like people adventuring through the galaxy solving exciting space problems. So we're on her side. I think we're having an exciting space problem, is it? Well, but because she was selling it in that scene, I think, and when it looked like solving that space problem meant saving that society, even though by that point in the episode, we knew that it wasn't going to mean that. Because she was solving the space problem, because that's what we're tuning in for every week, we are inclined to sympathise with her. And I don't know why the episode couldn't come down on her side more. Well, at least the crew, like that final speech coming up. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, because he's basically saying, you know, they had something good here. And we've ruined it. Yeah, yeah, but that's stupid, you know. Do you know what we miss by a hair's breath because Netflix has started the next episode. Conundrum. Conundrum. boy, boy. I hope we get something really fun like that, you know in the future. It's so high concept, isn't it? Like, it is a thing. I mean, they do it literally in basically every genre program where everyone in the audience knows that this person isn't the main character. I thinking Jonathan in Buffy. I'm thinking, uh, Eugene in random shoes in torchwood, uh, this guy. Like, it is a thing. I think there's an X-Files, isn't there? Like, there is an X-Files. Yeah, yeah. So every genre thing does that and that's kind of fun. Like, I think it's pretty fun. And what's on the other side? I can't remember what's the one immediately before this. Before the Mosspiece Society. Yeah. violations. Yeah. I actually have some problems with that because I think in retrospect, the rape thing is... a bit on the note. I'll tell you what, there isn't that. There is a bit of drama and a bit of suspense. And in conundrum, there's a bit of mystery and there's a bit of humour. All of the things that are completely absent from the masterpiece society. Exactly. All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to work out what we're going to watch next time. The Masterpiece Society was my random choice. So it's your turn, Joe, to press the button. Tell us what series we're choosing from. I only have one stipulation this time, and that is that the episode is in halfway competent after watching Wolf and the Fold and the Masterpiece Society. I just want to be reminded of why I love Star Trek so much, you know? I want to turn this into a hate podcast. That sounds like a plan. Okay, here we go. I've chosen every single series. I'm going to jump about a bit, just for one take. Your random Star Trek Deep Space 9 episode is by Inferno's light. Season five, episode 15. Oh, is that blood? It's a three-party car as well. It's in purgatory shadow and by Inferno's light. Yeah. It's a big Garrick episode. It's the one where we find out about Bashir being the changeling. It's the one where the Dominion ships come pouring. through the wormhole. It's the one where it's the one where Ducat goes and sells out the alpha quadrant to the Dominion, like there's a lot going on in it. Well, I don't know. Why are you pressing the button again? Why don't we just do that? That is what you like about stuff. That's everything I like about Star Trek. And it's the 1st episode as well. It's just like one really great character scene after another. There's a scene between Wharf and Garak in the runabout where Garak basically goes on for about 5 minutes convincing him why he wants to join Starfleet. and Wharf eventually relents and goes well. All right, I'll do it for you. And then he realises and he goes, you've got no intention of joining Starfleet, do you? And Garrett goes, no, but lying is a skill like any other. And if you want it, maintain to a level of excellence. You have to practice constantly. I'll just do it. That's a great 2 part out. Yeah, I think let's do it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it has that great sort of mid-season deep space 92 parter where it ups the stakes where the scale is really huge. I think that sort of thing is exactly what I want from Star Trek as well. will do it. It'll be very refreshing. Exactly. You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley. We're online at untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find links to our Twitter, mastered on Facebook, and YouTube channel. Our podcast artworkers by Kayla Sisrin, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb. This episode was recorded on the 16th of May 2023 and released on the 26th of May. We'll see you next time for Star Trek Deep Space 9 in Purgatory Shadow by Infonos Line. Oh, that's a great choice. That is a great choice. We're doing lots of two parties. We actually do, like, we've done quite a few two-parters over the time, which I think is... There's still loads to do, though. Like all the sort of... redemption and rest of both worlds. Yeah, yeah. What have we done? We've done descent. That's really the only cliffhanger. DeSanto's happy another two... No, not your fan. Oh God. We did the killing game. Endgame? Yeah. I'd love to do the year. Yeah, we did end game, yeah. You'd love to do what? We did the 1st... I'd love to do a year of hell with Kirkwood Smith. I think it'd be really interesting. Um, the, a sec. I forgot to put it on. Do not disturb. doesn't matter. The... Yeah. Yeah, anyway. Oh, we did we did the 1st 2 episodes of series 7? of Deep K sign. What, just not as well, haven't we done? Well, I haven't done any of the... Marquis, I want to 2 past tense. We haven't done. Um, Way the Warrior. Um, probable cause. Is that a two-parter? Yeah, DS cast. Yeah. This is a great Garrick one, this. And we have a really cover Garak sentence in the pale moonlight. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This would be better. And it feels like, sort of, Series 5 all coheres here. All the stuff are sort of running. All the character bits. Yeah. It all come. Yeah, cool. Yeah, that'd be a good day.