Cupid’s Errant Arrow

Hey, Joe. Hi. I was talking to someone the other day, and I can't remember who it was, but it's probably a friend of the podcast, and he said that his favourite Kurtzman Trek is, it might have been Richard from Flight through Entirety, actually, who said that his favourite Kurtzman Trek is Lower Decks, but certainly there are days when it's mine as well. I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to say, you know. And going back and watching this episode, I was in trance for 22.5 minutes. And I was like, why isn't Discovery as fun as this, you know? So discoveries are off being sort of momentous and deeply emotional. You've got strange new worlds being sort of charming and silly and a bit slight and occasionally, you know, gutting and like a big deal. And then you've got this, which, like, I think it combines being really funny with actually being really good Star Trek. It's genuinely good Star Trek. And I don't think this is slight at all. And it's telling these marvellous TNG style plots like we get in this episode and to take the piss out of that without, you know sounding without pushing it too far. So it's affectionate, that's a really hard thing to get right. And I think they gauge it perfectly. I think the other thing that I like is imagining the people riding the memory alpha articles as if all of this really happened. love winding those people up, don't you? I do. I'll say it before. say it again. Remember Alf was very useful for me on this thing, all right? Yes, we are very grateful to the people who write memory alpha. However much I enjoy thinking of them being annoyed by things. Do you know what surprised me though? Because this episode's references a ton. I mean, an absolute ton of previous episodes. On half of somebody, would have done a part of that memory alpha article, listing, detailing them all. I was going to read them all out to you. Then I thought to myself, do you know what? I could watch this with a pen and paper and as you write, I thought, oh, no, I'm not doing that much research those things, you know? I think I can spot some pretty great ones. But all of the sort of obvious ones are there. And one of the great things is that it burns through all of the usual ways that someone could, you know, be in love with someone because of some alien influence and then comes up with a completely new one. I thought the funniest one was where she had all the pictures up on the wall and she referenced 2nd skin. She goes, well, she could be a changed Kardashian infiltrator. And I was like, oh, come on. But there was all sorts. They mentioned like breed infiltration. She's got a paranoia board. Yeah, so funny. All the pictures are from old stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, as well with this show, right? This is a really likeable cast of characters that you care about. And they often get this writing comedy shows, which they don't in dramas, which baffles me. And there are arcs that happen in Lower Decks as well and I know it gets a bit more arc heavy in season two. I wonder if 3 w as well. And there are incredible animated visuals. I think in this episode alone, but I think in other episodes where they do big set pieces. Like it looked really good as well. And, you know, I mean, night is trek is my bag and this is just leaning into every cliche of 90s trek and basically taking a piss out of it in a spectacular way. It's glorious. I think it's wonderful. Yeah. What you think? I think, do you know what I watched this twice and I laugh my way through it both times. So if people want to listen to us laughing for 22.5 minutes, we'll go on that journey with them. Brilliant. All right. I'll count it in then. Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off. Okay, so we have 25 minutes and 15 seconds. It's actually amazing how incredibly gory this is as well. So, season one of Discovery was quite gory in places and they seem to have toned that down in Star Trek. It's not something they do all that often anymore, but they let this show be as gory as possible. Why do you think we don't know? This is the only episode. Why is there no pre-title sequence? Yeah, I wondered about that too. I thought maybe what happened was either... Well, I think probably what happened is they cut for time, the pre credits thing, or the scene they were planning to do was too long or something, I don't know. It is odd. Do you know, I used to say that my favourite part of the title sequence was when that alien is sucking on the arse of the Serritos. And Ghost Pass camera looks a bit embarrassed. But actually, my new favourite bit is this, where there's the Borg attack and they just go, no, fuck that. We're off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know? In series 2, they add packled ships to that shot. Oh, because the backleds are the big bad in the season two. That is pretty good. That's a terrific animation. Yeah. And, you know, I was really listening to the music this time as well. And it is really leaning as that sort of heroic TNG style. We're off on a jolly adventure. No, it's kind of the Voyager titles, isn't it? plus TNG. So Cupid's errant arrow. Um, 2 plots. We've got RAMB. And you know what? Honestly, Nathan, it's astonishing how much they pack into 20 minutes. in this show. And even this, like maybe this, look at the Vancouver comes in and completely hides... One day you could be in command of a fabulous ship like this. mine you loser. But she's absolutely not impressed. So this is some kind of a C plot. This is what the, you know, next generation episode would be about if we were having a next generation episode happening at the same time. This would be the A-plot. But then that's the premise of this show, isn't it? The A plot in TNG is essentially like the F plot in lower decks. And so this is just terrific. sublime. First of all, we have these intriguing looking purple aliens with fins. But the really fun thing about it is it's doing the usual Kurtzman Star Trek thing about climate change where everyone is kind of saying, no, we can't do anything about climate change for various stupid reasons, including that we're really rich and we don't want to be inconvenienced, which seems to be amazing. Like some comment. You know, I can remember... Janeway and some terrible alien. he's going, oh, thank you for all you're doing moving my people from this continent and things like that. Yeah. What's really funny here is there's a 100 reasons why they don't want this moon to be destroyed, even though it's literally going to cause a lot of trouble when it goes up. Yeah, and they're meant to be ridiculous, but there are. Yeah. And what happened is, oh, you're going to have to help me with the names here. What's Mariner's mother called? Freeman, Carol Freeman. When she literally sorts out the whole problem in like one sentence. Right, we're going to move you there. We're going to do that. We're going to sort this out. I'm like, okay. Jeez, really. She's earning her stripes. Oh, I love this pair. Tendi and Rutherford, yeah. I do too, so cute. And they get to geek out and their love of technology in this. is fabulous. And they are kind of clearly moving into a situation where they discover how much they love one another. Are they didn't get romantic? I don't think so, but they certainly, like, their friendship is hugely, hugely important and it is just delightful how sweet it is. And they develop that further in series too. They love the fact that this show, Oh my god, this ship is amazing and Marion Zag is basically the same ship. No, it really isn't. It's much much bigger. Mariners, deadpan lines. I think I had a bit of an issue with it, but now I just think they're wonderful. Oh she's so good. And so this hilarious plot where Boiml has a girlfriend. And the 1st thing, the voice of bulb. I can't remember. But the 1st thing that happens when the girlfriend actually turns up and hugs Boheemler is Marina's computer end program. And thus begins our journey through every Star Trek cliche. Alien implant. She says it could be a Dominion spy, you know? Salt vampire from the very 1st episode. She goes, it could be the superb. Well, she's actually super embarrassed by the siluban and it has to try and encourage everyone to take it seriously as a possibility. So good. I think the payoff is really good in this plot as well. Yeah. why she's attracted to him because, you know, and it means that Mariner's right. No one would be attracted. Yeah, except one of the things that the best episodes... Oh, his Jet, gosh, he's home. I've never seen him naked. when they're all getting up in their naked time plot. Yep. Yep, yep. In the episode that we did, Jet is a handsome man. for a cartoon. And, um, yeah. What's your name with a woman in, oh, good grief, I can't remember the film. Yeah, where she's sitting in a restaurant going, yes, yes, yes pretend to be an organ, Harry, Matt Sally. What's the woman's name? Meg Ryan? Yep. I thought she sounded just like Meg Ryan, Bob. I don't think she's Meg Ryan, but I can't remember. I can't afford her. Well, I did look it up and it wasn't a name that I recognised. So, there we go. Hey, have you heard about them doing the crossover between Strange New Worlds and lower decks? Yes. Yeah. So were they going to what? Mix animation and live action. I don't know. The thing is that Tawny Newsom and Jack Quaid look quite a bit like the cartoon versions of them. Jack Quaid would have to have a purple wig, but otherwise I think we'd kind of be fine. So I think it's kind of doable. You remember that Rutherford is Pillboy from Jason's friend from The Good Place. And of course, um, uh, the boss, you know, like, um, uh, Josh Chan's boss in Grayzy ex-girlfriend. And he's just a light player. That's pretty good pedigree, you know. I love him. I just think he's really adorable. And so the, so the best, I think the best episodes have the pairing, you know, Boheemler and Mariner and then Tandy and Rutherford. And do you know what? Do you remember in series two, episode one, was it? Unborn is off elsewhere, isn't he, on another ship? And he's on the tie, Phil, his absence because you don't have this hair. pissed off that he's not there. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yes, no, possibly there are people from the planet that justice is set on, and that's what she is. She's one of those people. She's sex upstairs. Oh, okay, so now we're going to get a, oh, no, that's the flashback. We're on deep side. Oh, there's that ship, the, like, the Pasteur in, in all good things. I'll just say, that is the one and only appearance of Deep Space 9 so far since what you leave behind. Yeah, yeah. Yep. Oh, this is great. He must be an alien parasite, and then suddenly he turns into this horrific alien. Well, the very one that she names, I think. the perfect guy looking particularly incredible there. It is pretty gray, isn't it? Super embarrassing. Why do you think so they're wearing the kind of movie, the 1st contact outfits? Oh, here we go. He's turning into a alien shapeshifter. Well, that's what they were on DS9. Maybe they've done it just to be polite. Oh, okay, yeah. Yeah. Because it's super legit. Yeah, yeah, she's gone. She's come over her face. It's super gory. It's so ridiculous. Did they get away with it because it's a cartoon. Oh, can I say to you something? When I was watching this, you know, I know how they managed to squeeze so much into 22 minutes. It's because they all talk so bloody fast in this program. And that is the thing about these styles of cartoons, isn't it? is that they do try and pack in a 40 minute script in 20 minutes. Yeah, yeah. Well, here we go. So this is this is Freeman solving the problem in just one line and all the religious people and all of the things. So, so I, the payoff to this plot, I laughed. so hard. It's really good We can't relocate my people from this moon. Yeah, yeah. You'll be destroying our homes and stuff without this moon will perish. And is this a, are we making fun of progress in Deep Space 9 series one where Brian... Won't leave his moon? Oh, it's so funny. You'll have blood on your hands. It's literally him and his fucking wife on the whole plane. And then when he just goes, yeah, we're rich. We've got a whole planet to ourselves. So good. So good. His boiler being like a massive dickhead as well. And everyone's being sort of quite nice to him, even though he's being such a jerk. I want... You know, he's got our parasite on him, you know, and they might all fancy him at the moment. Apparently it makes you irresistible. It's parasite. I'm never taking mine off, you know. What's Marina snug in just to make sure she's not an Android. Oh, that's right. She said out like, I sound waved, didn't she? Yeah, that's right. Have we had an Android infiltrators? Oh, what, Picard? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There we go. We're doing our own memory out for just in this podcast. exactly right Oh, I want to see her bored on the wall. But you know what? We've always, there is a thing, you know, about mixing relationships and work. And when someone comes into your work, from your, and that being terribly awkward, you know, we've probably all gone through that. Those 2 things are separate for a reason. Well, yeah, Calvin comes to work, things like work functions, work social functions and knows a lot of my friends at work, which is kind of nice. I love this. These guys are such geeks. So they're super thrilled about this new kind of tricorder and they're imagining themselves being revered by everyone in their relevant departments. Oh, here we go. Here we go. So this is, so look, there's a salt vampire there. There's a solar band. a whale for some reason. I don't know, there's a Klingon wearing a Kardashian woman from 2nd skin. And she's doing, you know that meme, the meme from, it's, uh, it's always sunny in Philadelphia, the meme of the guy standing in front of the paranoia board with the red twine. She actually does that. Um, and like it actually does that moment. Like they reference that. I mean. Oh, God, here. He's gone for all of it. history to see what are the coolest clothes. And so he's got an amalgam. It just looks like such a twat. You came in looking all sexy and then you started acting like a twat. you know? That's right. You know, you were going on about the the tricord, the new tricorders. Yeah, this was 90s trick. That would just be an agonising scene if they were talking about oh, these new tricorders. Where is it? They can get away with it and it's where it's so much fun. Well, I just think it's because it's all a bit knowing. They're all kind of winking at the audience going, you know. No, I think it's because Tandy and Rutherford are the sort of people who would be super enthusiastic about that and that's adorable. I mean, I think both Tandy and Rutherford are absolutely adorable. Marin is getting a hair sample. I mean, they're basically ours, aren't they? geeking out about something. Yeah, I think it's so cool. cute. I think they're incredibly cute. He's sexy as hell. For God's sake. Yeah, you know, I just have this all this empathy for boy. I can't help it, even when he mucks things up all the time. When you get finally getting something right, I remember punching the air with delight. It's usually inadvertently though that he gets things right, isn't it? Well, he does get a full-time job and a permanent position on the Titan. in series two. Was that the last episode where he was trying to impress Riker? Yeah, but he gets that job and then, of course, there's one of those 2nd chances style transported duplication things. And so boy, at one point, comes back to the Serenos and the other one's on the Titan. You know what? I think I think the way that they very delicately take the Mickey out of all these nice Shrek episode all basically everything. It makes me want to go and watch them as well. So it's not it's not having a detrimental effect. Not at all. No, no, no. It reminds us what we love about that show. And you know what? So much, we've pointed out on this podcast, how ridiculous. So much of night. I mean, if they dare to have a sex ghost in this thing. I mean, it would be wonderful. It would be so awesome. And you know what? The church could literally flap in the wind because it's made out of, you know, it's made out of cardboard. fibreglass. Oh, yeah. Oh, she calls you a sweet nervous nugget. Yeah, dainty hip is pretty cray. I've never been called back. I tell you. and pulls down her pants. Aren't reptiles in it? She is unembarrassed as well. She just goes, come on, let's go. What I love her as well is that both women think the same things about each other. And then the payoff is as him all along. Well, in fact, the fun thing is that they properly bond in quite a normal way and they realise that they... Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the twist is... No, look, I'm not having this because I had my other half and a friend over this week and they were very much bonding over the ridiculous things I do. All right, well, that's right. Well, that's what they thought though, isn't it? They bombed out with the fact that boring was a prat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he, I mean, he is. Bradwood. And that's the thing now. He's just called Bradwood from episode five. That's got to be a reference to Jedwood, right? I don't know. Maybe. They are Americans and no one outside of England knows who Jedwood is. Oh, I love this fella who works on the Vancouver, who's all the way through, like, the ultimate Star Trek professional, and then he's like, it's so stressful working on this shit. I want to... I want to transfer to the Cerritos where you do all the shitty missions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's, you know, rebooting the time stream, which is what Barb came in and said that she'd just done. You know, like the whole thing is sort of super ridiculous and incredibly stressful. Oh, she up to now? What she doing? Authorisation Mariner 8. She's trying to beam to the platform. Oh, and he goes, is this a made-up authorisation? But look, do you see that planet there? I think the animation is really good. looks really good. Is it enhanced by CG, though, because sometimes I think it looks like it is. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think all of those 3D, like all of the ships and stuff are computer generated and that's how they get the 3D right. Remember in the animated series where they try to animate... You know, apparently that's the 1st full frontal noodle scene in Star Trek, that one. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not the last, though. We saw all the section annigans in the other one we did. Yep, yep. Oh, bless him. he's got a weedy little potty. He's dating here. It's quite nice, actually. But you know, like, yeah, like in the animated series. Do you remember when they wouldn't even turn the Enterprise because that's very expensive to keep drawing it? Yeah, yeah, because they have to hand draw it going around the corners. Must be very expensive to make. Well, except with animation. You know, like 3D computer animation is kind of easier than just hand drawing it and guessing at what it might look like. Um, uh, here we go. Okay, tell me there's no hand drawing. break my heart. Well, yeah, no, no, of course there is. But, but, you know, there's lots of... It's too sophisticated. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Look at them. they're so adorable Didn't you say that something happens to him at the end of the season? And then he goes through a massive arc. Yeah, so he loses his memory at the end of series one. And there's this delightful episode in the series too where he's starting to malfunction and he keeps getting these error messages like over his point of vision and he can't see because all of these error dialogue boxes are turning up and the reason is he's running out of memory because he's so sad at losing his memories of Tandy last season that he's saving lots and lots of redundant copies all over the place and running out of memory. It's just so sweet. It's so beautiful. It's really well done. You know, it's that memory thing. It's that what they did to poor Michelle Nichols in yeah. Yeah, the nomads. Yeah, but they do this and it lasts and it has impacts beyond that episode. I remember thinking like a lot. The characterisation was a little bit disposedable until I got to the penultimate episode of this season and they had that entire sequence where Mariner and her mother were fighting each other and it was an extended therapy session and it was incredibly well characterised. Like, I was like, wow, this is, this is good smart TV, you know? Yeah. Yeah, no, I think it's really, it's, it would have been so easy to to be disposable and to just be funny or to be kind of relentlessly nasty. I mean, this reminds me, you know, it's animated the way that Rick and Morty is animated, I guess. And I think they have some DNA in common. But I think Rick and Morty... The, the, the speed of the gags and the ideas and it's definitely coming from that. real cynicism in Rick and Morty, which Rick and Morty. I don't like it very much. I like the ideas in it and I think it's very funny sometimes, but I don't like the nastiness. Yeah, I think I feel the same way about it, whereas this is so this is so great. We have to move on civilisation. Both of you. both of us, yeah. There are 2 of you on your whole planet. Yes, we're rich. Implode the moon. Do you know what? Remember in season one of in season one of discovery, where you had characters actually swearing, because this is leading into 90s we have a bleep filter open. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, no one's allowed to say fuck on discovery anymore either, but I do like... I think Picard said shit a couple of times in French in TNG. Oh, no, but remember in the episode that we watched the last episode of Discovery we watched when book flew off and and Michael's just alone in the cargo bay and she just says shit. It's really real. Bollocks in one episode, but I'm not sure. I don't think they do get the word use that needs. It's some English thing, you know? that's right. Well, it's like they could say bloody as well when they were allowed to swear on either. But I think as well. The fact that Lower Decks convinced even a portion of the Star Trek audience, because I think Star Trek fans are a little without humour. Yeah, I like the Tetla Babble and the serious aspects of it and the moral dilemmas and all of this. The fact that enough people fell in love with this. It gave me some hope. Stop. Well, like, like, I want to be fair to the Star Trek audience because I love the techno-babble and the nonsense, and I also love the parlour game of pretending it all happened in in a real consistent timeline, even though that's not very important to me at all. And one of the things that I love about this is it acknowledges that the world of Star Trek is ridiculous. And we've talked about that even recently, even in our last episode about Strange New Worlds, that Star Trek is inherently ridiculous in all sorts of ways, and it should just lean into that and he is absolutely doing that. more times than it did in night. It's trick, they should have said, oh my god, this is just absurd. Yeah. Yeah. Are you telling me that Captain Janeway is that lizard and Tom Paris is that other lizard and they've fucked and had lizard babies? So I actually watched, uh, as soon after I watched this one, I watched, we'll always have Tom Paris. In which Tom Paris comes on point in that title, Jesus Christ. Is he in that episode? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. in it. Did I take the piss out of the fire, but he's a fan of everything. You know, he's got amazing 20th century knowledge. No, no, no, but Boimler has commemorative plates and he refers to the ship Voyager as VOI because he finds it saves a lot of time, to call it that, because that's, you know, the standard abbreviation and riding the word Voyager. Uh, here we go. We're about to discover the parasite, which it took out. Oh, the parasite talks, doesn't it? Oh, it's a dummy. Oh, no. It's so funny. Look at it. Like, but well, because he was calling her lover and now it's calling her lover. And the thing is that... It's adorable, but Bob falls in love with her because it's... It looks like that. That little alien conspiracy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Only much cuter. And in fact, Doctor Who did one in Crimson Ora, didn't he? I like the one from the Crimson Horror, I think. But yes, she's going... Oh my god, can you see the binars on the wall? Yes, yeah. They got a reference, you know, they've been referred to in another episode of Lower Decks. So she's going off. Look, it's the whale from the voyage home. So she is now in love with a parasite and is going off. She's broken up with Brad and now she's she's going off with a parasite, and of course, her and Mariner are still now friends even though they've broken up. Parasite looked a bit concerned. Actually... she going to do to me? Do you know what's strange I know? Remember I had a bit of a whinge in one of these episodes about how much Kurtzman Trent looks back and how much nostalgia there is now? For some reason, and this is the worst. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, Dex does it more now. For some reason, I just don't care in this show. I feel like that's part of what this show's about. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think that's the same with Strangely Worlds. I think the Stranger World is absolutely about that. But they're both doing enough original things alongside it to sort of make it not unbearable. Oh, look, they just, see, Tendy and Rutherford really like one another too. It's just adorable. And even though next time. next time. Oh, I don't know what the next one is. Oh, it's this irritating guy. I can't remember. I don't have, why don't I have closed captions on this, on this next episode? Yeah, it's very strange. No, can't remember. It all looks incredibly exciting, though. It does. It does. That guy's super nice. Tiana was not in this episode. Was she? No, and she is one of the best Starfleet doctors ever. You remember when they was all having sex and she was clinging onto that guy's back with her claws out. Oh, yeah, yeah. She was fucking shacks, wasn't she? And they share a bed, I think, when they swap. You remember they swap? I can't go that image out. So great. Well, in fact, in a very early episode, I think it's series two, um Tendi and and Mariner go off together, um, because Tendi's been given the job of taking her kind of sex, scratching post out of storage. She's... And bringing it back to the Ceresa. Do they do lots of... I mean, I can remember some, but as it goes along, do they do more sort of cat jokes? Yeah, it's kind of funny too, because they're, obviously, they're actually real. Did we say this before, but the cations are, there's one in the 1st episode of Star Trek Prodigy, a little baby one. There's the one in the animated series with the long hair. That's where they 1st appeared. And there's a live action one in one of the Star Trek films. Oh, I love the fact that it's an initial introduction was the animated series. Yeah, yeah, yeah. borrowed another thing for the animated series which is so annoying. doesn't care where how embarrassing its sources are. It will celebrate the lot. But you know what's, like, we've done a lot of Star Trek now. We've covered a lot of Star Trek, a lot of shows and a lot of different styles on Star Trek. And in 90s, Trek, the most fun we've probably had is the comedies like that have been the bang or the really kind of insanely camped stupid episodes, like sub-rosa and things like that. What I love about this show is that is this show's default setting is to make it as fun and as energetic and as silly as possible. And I just, I love it for that. I think it's it's a really worthy thing to do. I think that at times the live action Kurtzman shows can be funny and they can be witty and warm and all sorts of things like that. But of the live action Star Trek shows, the ones I think the only one that's actually succeeded at actual comedy is probably Deep Space Nine. Yeah, I can probably cite a few examples in the other shows, but not consistently good comedy. Well, I think that part of the deal is that, you know, the stick up the butt syndrome that plagues 90s track is apparent much less on Deep Space 9. And I think it's because they have lots of characters who aren't in the Federation. And so they distinguish themselves from being federation people by acting a little bit more normally. And so they can do fun comedy. Do you not remember in um, one little ship, as they're about to miniaturise the ship to the size of an inch, and Kira's on the bridge, and she goes to Cisco, are you seriously telling me, we are going to shrink down this ship to the size of a coffee cup, and she just bursts into laughter, and so does Cisco, and then literally, the whole bridge just falls about, and they're basically saying, go with this, folks. We know this stupid. We know it's stupid. We're just doing it. It's Star Trek. But there's not there's just not enough of that in 90s tricks. They take too much of this. Ridiculous, not really seriously. Yeah. Oh, which is a shame. So it's time for us to choose our next Star Trek episode. So Joe is on Untitled Star Trek Project.com slash Randomiser because it's his turn. Yes, and today I am limiting my choices to a single series. Is it the animated series? It's not. No. Okay, cool. And it's simply because I fancy watching the show. Okay, good. This is a very, very good reason. It's enterprise, isn't it? It's not. Star Trek Voyager. Oh, I fancy going heading back to Voyager because, you know, it's 50-50 with Voyager's like roulette Christmas button. Yeah, it could be. You ready? Okay. So the 1st episode that's come up, no, I don't really ever go with the 1st episode. But oh, it's season seven, episode 23, Homestead. Now that's the episode where Neelix leaves Voyager. Ah, we could bring champagne and actually, I quite like Neelix. That's not fair. Good. I really fancy it. I fancy going to the early voyager. We haven't really touched it. Like we've done a couple of season seven, haven't we? We have, yeah. We've basically done later Voyager. Okay, well, let me press it again. Oh, I like this one. Oh okay. And it's essentially one actor talking to themselves for 40 minutes. It's season two, episode 17, Dreadnaught. Oh my god. I think that's the episode where Janeway's talking to the man where he's relocating. She relocating them all from the planet. All right. Okay. I can see it from your face. Who is it? It's like, it's belonging to a... to a consentient... that's got her voice. So she created this Cardassian missile with her own personality. Okay. So it's basically Roxanne Dawson twice. It's actually, I mean, she is going over this episode. Yeah, well, let's do it. Oh, I'm gonna press it again. Okay. Okay. So, ooh, season 3, episode 21, before and after. Now that is the KES episode where we get to go through her entire life. Oh, okay. And the future, we see the year of hell before it happens. Oh, yes, that's right. That's right. I remember that. Do you know what? That's one of the highlights of season 3 that. All right. I think we could do that. A good high concept one. And it gives us a chance to talk about Kes because I... I would like to... And you know what? I think I might do a little bit of research, actually, into her life post Star Trek. Yeah, it's not a rewarding topic of research, but I like her in all sorts of ways. There's a lot to be said for that character, I think. In fact, I think they would have been smarter to have kept her and had this be a very female dominated show and get rid of some of the boring men. Yeah. Yeah, Tom Paris. It's the men that are boring on boy, John. It's yeah. Apart from... The doctor? I think he's the only one, I think, of any worth. Yeah, I'd agree with that. Well, Nathan, let's go watch before and after. Okay. You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley. We're online at Untitled Star Trek Project.com where you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel. Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceron, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb. This episode was recorded on the 8th of August 2022 and released on the 12th of August. We'll see you next time for Star Trek Voyager, before and after. I'm ready. All right, I think I'm ready too. I guess we do it. I'm kneeling down because I was getting so sweaty in that chair. I was honestly starting to congeal against the chair. So I'm nigging it down just to get some air to my private, so it's a thing. Okay. I'm sure I'll find a way of bringing that up during the recording. Okay, okay. I suppose I should say something. Oh, by the way, I'll just say, in the last 2 episodes, right? On one of them, yeah, you said, hey, Joe, like this. Hey, Joe. And one of them, one of them. I went... Yeah, I was like, hey, Joe, I was like, okay, what happened there? What sort of mood were you in? What was that? Yeah. I sounded like a pervert when I went, hi. Hi. All right. Here you go. Okay. I just said it one of those in. I've got all them recorded. Hey, Joe. Hi. I was talking to someone the other day.