The Serene Squall

Hey, Joe. Hi. I'm a little bit excited about doing this episode because, for me Strange New Worlds has been a massive surprise and a really pleasant one. And I'll tell you why. I think initially I had thought that Strange New Worlds would be very Trad and that it would let Discovery sort of Deep Space 9 and off in the distance and be serialised and and weird and sort of emotional and stuff. And instead, what seems to have happened is they've done Trad Star Trek, but updated in the most fabulous way, where it's Star Trek with astounding production values, really likeable characters, and some really fun, relaxed performances, and while it's occasionally been really scary or really heart wrenching. content with just being fun. Well, as ever, you know, I watched the episode that we did the commentary on earlier in the season. and I watched the 2nd one. You said it was really good, and I thought the Yahoo episode was fantastic. I haven't watched any since then at all. And I am absolutely going to get to it because I thought those 1st 2 episodes were amazing. If you were going to sit there and make an argument to say that this series ain't rad after the episode we're about to talk about today. I mean, this could have been an episode of TNG. Yes. I've got a feeling you and I are going to be at loggerheads on this one. Because I think you liked it a lot. Yeah, I did. I did. And I mean, there are some reasons for that. I don't think it's like Star Trek, the Next Generation, because Star Trek, the Next Generation is famous for being peopled by space people. I do think it's like the original series, but it's the original series in a kind of way that's much more relaxed and much less melodramatic. You know, the original series cast really declaim their lines. And while there's moments of sort of fun and relaxation, it's mostly performance. Whereas here, I think the characters are much more chill and I love that. Do you remember what I sent you in... our message chat after I'd watched this, there was just like something missing from this and I couldn't put my finger on what it was. And I, so I went back and watched the last 20 minutes for the 2nd time just to see what it was. And I think it was just the fact that there wasn't, after I said there wasn't a lot of depth to this. There wasn't any depth to this whatsoever. But also as well, like all the twists and turns were a bit obvious and very simple. And I don't know. I've realised I've come to expect some like thematic depth, even in like the very relaxed episodes of Kurtzman Trek and just that sort of extra layer of characterisation, which I thought was kind of simple here as well. I don't know. I just watched the whole thing and at the end, I kind of went huh. Oh, well, that was an hour of TV, you know, like, and there was a few bits that were enjoyable, and there was a few bits that I groaned at, and there was a few bits where I went, Oh, come on which we'll get to. But on the whole, I just thought it was a bit mundane. Okay, it's been a track. Well, I think it's it's content to be the comedy episode and like last week. Now, I'm struggling to remember which order things come in. Last week had been a very heavy, very kind of, it's a very sort of TRAD Star Trek plot where they go to a planet which exists basically to make a political point, one of those sort of allegorical ones and it's done very well, I think, and it's quite moving. The next one is their wacky one where they all get taken over and start behaving like characters in a children's book, um, and Laan in particular is absolutely superb in that one. And that's really light, but it has a very, very moving ending that wraps up a low-level serialised character plot. And so I think this is just content to be fun. And I think in a season that has 10 episodes, what they do is there's a good mix of properly scary, properly meaningful, properly moving, properly weird, and just fun. And I think Spock Amuck was doing that. And I think that this one's doing the same thing. And one of the things that they've done is gone for the Kurtzman conception of the Vulcans as slightly silly. And I think that kind of works. I really like Ethan Peck when he's being funny and I think Tapring is really good as well. I wasn't sure of any of the jokes actually landed in this because I don't recall laughing. much of it. But you know what? My biggest hurdle with this was this is a pirate story. And that is my least favourite genre of anything apart from maybe a Western, which I think is very boring as well. And this bunch of pirates were so ill characterised. I mean, they were characterised. They were just sort of snarling and there was a bit of conversation about cooking. Okay, the head pirate who, I'm sorry, I know you was fooled, but I wasn't for one minute, that she was, that she was not evil all along, and boy, does she have a transformation halfway through the episode? We'll talk about that a bit later on as well. I don't know. I tell you, it was it was perfectly acceptable television. Like it was possible, but I think there's 2 things. One, it made me realise that actually I expect more from Kersman Trek. So clearly I, you know, I'm seeing more in the rest of it than I thought I was. And two, I think you're kind of predetermined to look for the good in this iteration of trek. And when I start watching this stuff, I am waiting to be convinced with every episode. And it's a very different approach to watching television. So when something comes along, which is a little bit underwhelming. I think, you know, I'm there going, well, that was a bit shit wouldn't it? You know? But it was it was okay. It was okay. Well, I mean, I think Strangely Worlds as remit is in part just do 60s trick things, but with incredible modern production values and relaxed performances. And I think that that's almost enough. And the fact that Strangely Worlds regularly reaches for something beyond that, I think, is really great. We read Jammer's review of this episode. Yeah. And I'm usually fairly in sync with Jammer. On the whole. Gambit from Star Trek, the Next Generation's final season, I think is better, and I think that's a baffling position to take because it's interminable. Everyone has a massive stick up their arse. It's super boring and nothing interesting happens at all. For 2 episodes. It's absolutely Star Trek, spinning its wheels. trying something different and failing. I'm so sorry. I think that Gappa is probably a little bit better than this. Well, because I think Gabi's got a Gabi's got a better hook. The hooking gambit is Captain Picard is dead, and then Captain Picard has turned wrong. Turns up. Yeah. And it's just basically an excuse for, yeah, Patrick Stewart to kind of overact a little bit and get to be a pirate captain. Yeah. Yeah. But like this one, there are nothing to subvert the pirate genre. It was basically, and oh, how they're defeated at the end was just so... And that's the point, isn't it? That's the point. And we'll get there because I think there are 2 light character arcs in this episode, which I think are both good and one of which is played for sort of sort of buddy comedy or sort of hangout comedy or something, you know. I remember Lance Parking, who is a writer of original Doctor Who novels, saying on Facebook that he feared that Strange New Worlds was going to turn out to be like knocking out like pastiches of TOS episodes. And the 1st 2 of the season that I watched felt very fresh and original. Yeah. This kind of lent towards what he was fearing, I thought. And I've got a feeling actually the rest of the season isn't really like this, that this is kind of doing its own thing. Yeah, I think there are two. I think there are 2 comedy episodes and I think that the Elysian Kingdom, which is on next week, is the next episode, is kind of traditional Star Trek in all sorts of ways. And one of the things sounds more wacky as hell. It's really, it's really something. The end of this episode, I think... got a hell of a twist at the end of the episode. It really does. Of all those things, Kurt, I didn't think they'd never go there you know? Well, so, I mean, we're going to tell the people it's Cybok. has an appearance. And in that sort of terrible film, you know, that terrible film masterpiece. It's not very good. But the great thing, I think, is that Kurtzman Drake doesn't shy away from nonsense. And so, for instance, a big part of the end of series 4 of discovery is the galactic barrier, which is established in the 2nd pilot where no man has gone before and never mentioned again because it's stupid. And they've said, nope, it's part of Star Trek law, it's part of Star Trek Canon. We want to emphasise how important it is that we're going to meet the 10C outside the galaxy. So the galactic barrier is there and we're just going to do it and they do it properly and they do it really well. And it'll be fun to see them do cybok well. Actually, I think Carsman Frank is acknowledging that it's all real. We've had those fabulous animated series creations turning up haven't we? The heads that bobble about and the arms and things. Do you know what I've heard recently? I've heard recently all talk of DS9 characters returning and Alex Kirkman actually saying Kurtzman, shall they say it? Kurtzman. Actually saying Cisco is a very important character. We're in discussions. Oh, still my heart. I'll tell you now. I'll watch those episodes the week they go out. Well, there's there is talk of a, and I think the trailer depicts it, the series 3 trailer, which is, I think the series starts later this month, has the crew of the Cerritos going to Deep Space Nine. And I think part of um, part of Mariner's backstory is that she served on Deep Space 9, I seem to remember. Oh, right, didn't you say there was a sequence where they say go go stately around the station taking a piss out of the tile sequence from series one? Yeah, go around like you're in awe of the pylons. It's just real. There's so many things you can take the piss out of India. They'll have an absolute ball. That's going to be fun. But, you know, I think for now we should probably watch the Serene School, you know. All right. Okay. So I'll get us started and count us in. Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off. Many, many trailers and things to go 1st though. The, yeah, the Star Trek badge that the Enterprise makes... Yeah, yeah. And it's proper branding. our proper MCU, our STC. It literally is a stamp on this saying we love TOS, isn't it? Well, yeah. Yeah. And fair enough. You know, we do all this like a CBS studio production. Obviously, it feels like a movie, doesn't it? So this, I think, is sort of adorable. We're doing the previously on. And the things that we cover are pint cooks for people and there's a cute relationship. And there's a cute relationship between Christine and Spock, and of course, to Pring. Yeah, see, I, you know what? I wasn't sure watching this, whether anything had happened between Spock and Nurse Chapel before this. Yeah, no, it said they're friends. It's really nice and she gives him relationship advice and he kind of makes fun of her in, in, uh, there's a little joke at her expense in Spockamuck. It's nice. It's a good relationship. We haven't touched on it here, yeah. in Untied Star Trek Project but she does she pines after him in TOS, doesn't she? Nurse Chapel. Yeah, in a way that's a little bit pathetic and a little bit 60s you know, like she's should be doing that here, Nathan, I'm telling you. And so the relationship is... Yeah, well, we'll see what happens, but the relationship is much more proper friends. It's really terribly good. So, here's the pre... walking through. beautiful special effects. Oh, mate. Yeah, so Star Wars has the volume, which is that big cylinder thing full of high-definition screens that they drop backgrounds onto, so they're live in camera. This is a combination of CG, you know, postponing. A minute ago she was in a set. Now she's against a wall. isn't she? Because you can see there's no kind of depth behind her, but the detail is there. Yeah, and it looks amazing. But yeah, she's just had to... immune to it. I want to talk to you about human sex. Okay. And so she's been reading 3 books that are really sexy books, like Henry Miller's book that she mentions here was banned from import into America. It's written in the 30s, banned from import into America or the UK or Australia. for decades because it's full of really... Explicit descriptions of sex. And then Erica Erica Jong, who invents the zipless fuck, is the 2nd book that she reads. What? And then the zipless vark. It's like having sex with someone with no sort of commitment or anything like that and where the zippers just come undone like nothing else. Are these books still available? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the 3rd one is about a woman who has a relationship with a transgender artist, a man. And while she's in that relationship, she gets pregnant and all sorts of things. So it's really, really frank descriptions of sex, which makes box reactions so hilarious because he's really terrifying. That's not signalling what's sort of happening in this episode with the casting, is it? Well, I don't know, but it does Tupring does say that she finds the 3rd book, which was released in 2015. It's called the Argonauts. The fact that she finds most intriguing, the one, which does deal with issues of gender. So I think it probably is a bit of a hint at it. Mostly what it's doing is saying we are embracing all of this. as Star Trek should have done all along. Yeah. In fact, when Strangely Worlds came along, I wondered whether it would be Star Trek for horrible right wing people. You know, like it's like, well, you can have your transgender characters and your gay couples and stuff over there on Discovery and this is going to be the proper Star Trek that straight people like. Boy, were they disappointed? But you know what? I have heard, and I don't know if this is true or not, that Gene Roddenbury did not object to same-sex couples in Star Trek, and it was actually the studio, that there was a script that was posed about a same-sex couple and like it was dealing with an analogy to HIV. Right. But it just kept... No, not like stigma. That's terrible. That is not about HIV or gay people. But it just kept the studio kept saying, no, we're not going to make that. Yeah. And then Berman came along and wasn't interested. I think the conservatives were making Star Trek by that point. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So here's the introduction of our guest actor, and that's another Star Trek trope. I think this is the one of the 10 episodes that features a guest actor in such a big role. And this is Jesse James Hotel. We need to talk about this performance, you know, because I know you like it a lot. In fact, you love it a lot later on. Okay, I've just got one question for you about it though. Yeah, that is. Like, she's very, she's very sort of plain and very softly spoken until she's revealed to be evil pirate woman. And then, are we supposed to believe actually day to day? She's this mad vampi. I hope so. Pirate Queen. But I actually think I don't think she's very demure. I think she's really confident and a bit sexy and she, you know she's got the facial tattoo and all these piercings. She wears a midriff top. She comes out of her, her quarters towelling herself off after listening to doof, doof music and, you know, and she is funny. You watch this first. And you said that the transactor in this was the villain. So I kind of had it in the back of my head. But I'm sorry, when she started detailing that dreadful Star Trek backstory about, I don't know, the pirates come along and killing all of her family. I'm like, is anyone buying this? Really? Well, see, I did buy it. And so I actually quite like this character because look, there she is. Like she casts a glance across, she drinks her champagne. She's, she's very kind of, in fact, we should say they because although Jesse James Keitel uses she her pronouns. Um, Dr. Aspen, whom she has replaced, um, on this we should use this, they, their pronouns. Did we ever find out what happened to the real? Real doctor? There's some suggestion. She says that they might be wandering around on the asteroids. Oh, where she left. Oh, bless. I hope they remember that and go back. Oh, goodness. You know what? I got to say, I really like the subtle face makeup. You know, 90s trek should have done a bit more of this, you know instead of slapping latex on everybody's faces, just do something a little bit different because, well, and it does say pirate doesn't it? Like, it is a facial tattoo. And so when she's a pirate, you kind of go, oh, okay, facial, you drop a ball on this one if you didn't realise she was the villain. All right, until she was revealed. I didn't. Okay. Look, look at her there. The thing that I was enjoying more than anything else. I know. But that's what's great. That's what I thought was good because remember the thing about Strange New Worlds is that people don't have massive sticks up their ass, the way they do in Star Trek, the Next Generation. This is a beautiful affection, isn't it? David, she's got a massive black collar. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was there, right? But the other thing was right. You've got this transgender actress on the show, and I didn't realise that, you know, there's a time when we're, you know, back in the 90s when you started seeing sort of regular gay characters on a bunch of TV shows, and except Star Trek, obviously. and I used to watch Melrose Place and there was Doug Savant's character whose name I can't remember and I couldn't possibly care less. You know the one I remember? The guy in Dawson's Creek. Oh, okay. Yeah. And they had to be the good guys. They couldn't be bad. And so I didn't know whether we were at the stage with transgender representation where we could just have our one major trans guest actor for the season and they could be evil. And I'm kind of excited that they could because she is fantastic when she turns evil. She's so funny and it's just such a superb scenery chewing performance. It's a lot of fun. And I think that's, for me, because, you know, you know I found this all a bit mundane. That's where the energy is. in that last 15 minutes where she's on the bridge and 0 my god she's loving every 2nd of it. She really is. It's great. And so because we've got, you know, gray and Adira on discovery and we do have proper positive transgender representation, we don't have to feel constrained to just make um, make our transgender guest star, um, a good person. And she's certainly pretending to be a good person here while still being really kind of cool and insightful. I really, I liked the character as she appeared, someone who looked like she was on Star Trek in order to help Spock, who is neither human nor Vulcan understand what that means and what the possibilities behind that are. I kind of want to talk about that as well because I feel like this whole Spock's conflict between human and Volkan. That's a bit old hat as well. Like we have done this to death. Yes, but that's the essence of Spock's character. And so if you're going to have a Star Trek now with Spock on it Spock is going to be about the conflict between human and Vulcan that's what the character is. Yeah, see? She's sweaty and kind of relaxed and a bit sexy look. She's got her midrift top. I like the fact that the extras walking past, no one can really do that acting very well, even in this new Cosman trek. Oh, do you know what? I love I love this lift so much. All the sound effects, just like 2OS? And, you know, I love it when they go into the infirmary or whatever it's called here, and you hear that, just little, just tiny little details like that that just take me back to TOS. Do you know what would have been a perfect opportunity to deal with a trans style storyline. And we have talked about this before and you said you... Never go down this room is when Jazia died in DS9, if they had... And it would have been interesting. They never would have done it, but it was basically ripe for that storyline to take place. Yeah. I kind of think sometimes those science fiction things like some people finding that the doctor becoming a woman after being a man. I guess what gets left out of that is the whole dysphoria thing you know, the, but like, who knows? People find representation where they can The worst of it is, we talked about this before is Dr. Bev in that, the host. Oh, yeah, which she just couldn't handle it, you know. Yeah, yeah. I had much more respect for it. should have gone, come on, let's go. Yeah, let's do it. Oh, my God. Gates would have been the hottest thing ever. She'd have been up for it for sure. Gates would have been after. Gorgeous. This one at the front there. I love her hair. Erica. Yeah, well, but she's also kind of properly chill and I think she sells it as a pilot too. And there was all that sort of talk here about, you know, comparing their travelling to being on a 1st date or a 3rd date or whatever. And it's cute. It's like, oh, he's looking into the scanner. I was just like, yeah, you're looking into the thing. This reminded me. This special effect reminded me of the Folian web, you know. Napoleon Webb. That's where we're supposed to go. So what is this they've been captured by the pirates here, have they? Yeah, so this is a pirate trap. I can't remember whether any of this makes any sense, but they called it the Serene School. I was trying to think about that, and I'm not entirely sure because the serene means calm, and a squall is like a small, like a little storm, isn't it? Like, I'll be honest with you. I don't know. I've rarely seen a calm, a bunch of pirates in this lot. Not really. Very rowdy, are they? Well, no, but there are some, I mean, they're supposed to not be a threat. What we missed earlier on is one of the character beats that I mentioned earlier, I think there's 2 minor character things happening here. One is that, uh, that Dr. Aspen says that, um, Pike is a is a Boy Scout and he kind of goes, oh, no, no, no. And Una says, it's literally in your file. And, and this gives him a chance to be a little bit sneakier and a little bit less straightforward and a little bit manipulative and to have some fun. So instead of being a good boy, he gets to be a bit sillier. And that's kind of good, you know, like that's, and we did have a similar plot with Una and Laan, who are super straight laced, in an earlier episode, they decide to play, um, Enterprise bingo, and they have a really fun, wonderful time. It's a nice little character thing. So it's a little bit like that. You know, I think they can use that on for great comedy because in that 1st episode when she said, right, I'm going to take out this person. And she just literally did it. Oh, she was so funny. With that 60s hair that she had. Number one, didn't do much in this, did she? Does she have a big role in this show? She didn't do a lot in this. didn't do a lot in the pilot. I don't remember her doing a lot in a second. So there is an episode called Ghost of Elyria where she has the main kind of A plot is centred around her. Um, and then there is that subplot with her in Laan. And here she gets to accompany Chris through the episode. Look at her. Do you think that pirate spaceship there looks like a bug because it looked like a little insect coming off you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. like a termite or something. But look at how confident and gorgeous she is. Look, that lopsided smile, like she's playing someone who's an aid worker and a former counsellor. You're expected to be very, very good. And she's... She's got a... Behind it. I know, wonderful. Oh, I was never convinced. No, I, because because if this had been 90s Star Trek, that person would have been just irredeemably boring. The way that Deanna is. You know the way that Deanna is until they go, oh, fuck it, let's just let her be Marina. And I did actually watching this and I'm listening, the psychology's here. I was like, okay, this is quite nice. Like, it's not, there's no depth to it really, but it's all right you know? And she's she's kind of calm, but she's not using any dreary psychobabble. With the smile, her smile, that little crooked smile that she does. Like, I think it's a really properly good performance. And she sells it to me, I think. I think she needs to, I may have said this already, but she needs to be the regular on this. You know, the evil regular. Every show needs one. I hope that that's what they're going for because, of course, we have that reveal at the end, which we've mentioned earlier, that she is the wife of Psych. sake. Well, get there. I'm hoping that happens. That'd be so great. I mean, I think we've got energy chairs. so good. Yeah, the series has ended. I thought that Cybok might be our big bad for the season finale but he wasn't. Was it good the finale? I had some reservations about the casting, but I thought it was generally a good episode. There was one big, big casting problem in it, I thought. Oh, God, I thought she was talking about the therapy then. She said, I wouldn't waste any time analysing it. She was talking about, she was talking about the Supreme School. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, so she's just given that speech about saying, you know you're not a human, you're not a Vulcan, um, you don't have to see yourself as one thing or another, you can be another thing. And obviously, maybe that even sort of is... It has a triple meeting. Yeah. But so do you think that Captain Pike's hair is a character all on his own? Look, I think it's getting silly. And there are... Like you've seen how long Mike can get, but I've cut it shorter at this point, yeah. No, I think it's getting silly. I think the thing about Anson Mount. And of course, remember we had him as the captain of Discovery for an entire year. So we do know him already and he, um... His space dad, isn't he? He's your space dad? Like, I think he's probably younger than me. He's got to be a butt-based dad. He's so hot. I mean, he's a very, very handsome and sexy man and he's very relaxed, but he is... He's got a sort of cool at ease, charisma, doesn't he? Where he's the coolest person in the room. Look, he's even managing to pull this crappy... I think this is where it goes a bit off the rows now when we go to the pirate ship and they start talking about cooking. And I was like, what is going on here? What is going on? Yeah. So so here he solves the problem through cooking. And look at that. I think that looks so great. That is just a factory somewhere, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, a bit like my shops wear out. They've put a space roof in over on the right hand side of the shot and there's water and stuff. Like it feels like a real place. Is it like one of those old Mac paintings, you know? He's track. It's like a real big place. Let me try and explain, though, why I, this kind of subplot didn't work for me. I thought that they were going to come here and yeah, fine, they get catching by the pirates and then I thought it was going to be like TOS where everybody sort of contribute something and there's going to be a big fun set piece and none of that really happened. No, so all that it is, is because this is about Pike not being just, you know, by the books, Boy Scout, you know, completely not streetwise. Like he actually manages to undermine them. And there's so little of a threat, which, look at, look at Nurse Chapel in the Jeffreys tube. All of this running around on a ship and them shooting. I was getting Voyager vibes from this, you know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but again, see, I don't think you can object to the episode on the grounds that it's been done before, because that's what he's doing. This series is doing that, you know? Yeah, absolutely. And so do it really well. And I think that stuff with Nurse Chapel and the and the injections and stuff is really great. She's fabulous. Basically, what happens in that simple is he cooks some food. They're much more impressive with his food. So that sort of subdues them all. And then they turn up at the end on the ship. No, so they're they're here. So, no, no, no, but then what happens is that Remy wants to sell the enterprise and its crew to the Klingons and Pike tries to sow some kind of discord among the crew saying that dealing with the Klingons is a bad idea. If you steal the Federation flagship, the Federation will be after you as well. You know, Remy's useless. And then we just allied the whole thing so that we get that ridiculous comedy set piece at the end where they're, you know he's got the big wheel of the pirate. No, no. That was a very fun visual where they were absolutely leaning into the genre. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Where they're just being silly. And so this is not a plot that matters. There's no real threat here. It's just having fun, I think. I just thought I just thought it would be more fun. It would have more energy. I don't know. Like, we've seen episodes of TOS where, you know, they're all pretending, they're all acting in a strange way to knock out guards, and it's all a bit camping a bit silly, and this just felt a bit flat. Yeah, I I mean, I enjoyed it. And I did enjoy... I'm enjoying this too. The Pirates Invade the Spaceship, which is something that we've had. Oh, look, she's looking scared. She's looking scared. I mean, I love the part that they've taken over and she's still playing the part. She waits until... Yeah, she's got herself... moment to reveal her evilness. Which is great. Oh, look at that. Yeah, look at number one, giving him the look. You guys keep hiding. Oh, look, I've said it before, but I do adore these sets, you know. Yeah, they're beautiful, aren't they? They just stunning. And I've got to be honest. This fella, the Orion guy with a beard, who looks very like the troll. The troll out of Buffy. He is kind of fun, but yeah, yeah. I don't even really think that goes anywhere. I don't know. I feel like I'm pooping on this But I don't think I don't think this needs to go anywhere. It is just the B plot and they're just kind of going, all right, B plot it. Let's have some funny things and let's have Pike solve it, not even Starfleet way, but in a kind of fun, silly way. And, you know, the pirates are never a threat, really. They are a threat on the enterprise, I guess, but here they're just silly. But it's like I said to you before. And I know you say like, you know, something being fun for its own right is a good enough reason for it to exist. I think I've just come to expect a bit more from Kuzman Trek, is all. But maybe I hold it to a higher standard than I thought. Well, I was thinking this morning about the last episode of Discovery that we did, which was but to connect, you know, the series 4 mid-season finale. And that had... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And, you know, like I, I do think that what is going to happen is that Discovery will be off over here doing new interesting things taking Star Trek, you know, telling stories on a bigger scale, um and, you know, occasionally being funny, but leaving just this to be fun and episodic. And that doesn't mean that it's been throw away. I think that's a legitimate approach to have the 2 shows doing those things. But like the 2nd episode, the Ahura episode, was quintessential Star Trek, but I felt like I was seeing something completely new the way they were communicating and her singing and it felt really really fresh. This didn't. And that's okay. That's okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, this has the ship gets taken over. You know, special guest star turns out being evil. Hairy pirates who don't post much a threat. But, I mean, this is so confidently done. And look at her. She's so great. No, I'm going to... I think she's my favourite. No, Chapel. She's really good. She's very likeable. She's Australian and she did Home and Away. Well, Australians are very likeable, Nathan. Yeah, well, that's it. Some of it. They're very, I find a very opinion, you know. But she's wonderfully in this. She's so good, isn't she? And she looks properly scared. And she, you know what? She'll accept that. Massive confidence, but she plays naive really well. Yeah, yeah. Do you remember in the 1st episode when she was running through the corridors going, I really wanted to do this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And this like she's so good. She decided. Oh, she does the... She just died for a gun. He is... Oh, a nurse champ. No, but you know what? It does make, it's a shame because Major Barrett couldn't have done any of this stuff in the original series. No, she wouldn't have been able to. She just moons and passes McCoy. So you know what this is? This is? Remember we watched Bada bing, Bada bang? and Cassie Yates says. This is how things should have been. You have a chance to do that, isn't there? Like, he's just like, give me more food. He's feeding that weird green... I actually really like this too. Like this set doesn't look expensive or anything, but it's just the look. It's not a 90s Star Trek look. It's a different kind of. Do any of these aliens rank on the Beaumont scale? Well, no, they don't, because they haven't gone for like extra nostrils or anything like... on their face. They actually look good. It's kind of a Star Wars vibe, I think, to the these new aliens in Star Trek these days. And I'm super glad to see the Orions back because I'm just saying something green. They're really leaning into the Orions in Curtsman Trek, aren't they? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, that villain wasn't arrived, wasn't she? Discovery? Yeah, a Cyrus. in Discovery season three. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it's that thing where next Jen is embarrassed by them because they're just green people and they think that's pulpy 60s. Have you seen someone's eyes and those aliens on next generation? Right. I know. And they're embarrassed by someone who's green. Exactly. And in fact, the green thing works just terrifically well, which is why, I mean, we've got a regular character, a regular O'Brien character on lower decks, don't we, Intendis? His hair sort of fallen over his face now. So it looks a bit more reasonable, doesn't he? Well, he's still got that shaved side of the head thing. He does, he just looks like a bikey, doesn't he? It's pretty great. He's cute. He's in command. He can cook. I mean, ticks ticks all that you were talking about. I thought you were talking about... Jesus Christ. No, that's it. So the hair comes down, you know, and he starts, uh, he starts being shifty and uh, sowing discord and not being the Boy Scout that he was in the 1st scene. Do you know what it is about these pirates, right? Is you can win with me either way? Because if they were all sitting around going, oh, I'll be going oh, how cliche. And because they were all sitting around being a bit quiet, I'm like, well, how dull. So you can't win with me. No, it's it's also that thing where they're food obsessed. Like it's such a trivial thing. It's just like they need a decent meal because their captain does all the cooking and his shit at it. Even when she was moving her shoulder then, after taking the thing I'm like, you're evil. See, I just thought she was sexy and relaxed. That's how I was reading it. That's why I liked this. you need to look at the people around you you know. That could be some real evil people. should be. Oh, when does she finally reveal herself? Is it now? Oh, no, it's when they go down to the, to engineering. Oh, no, this was another big clue. She's basically saying abandoned the ship. And I was like, okay, she's definitely living. Yeah. So that's actually another good thing that they do because the pirates want to sell the enterprise crew. And because... I'm so sorry, comedy episode. I'm going to have to go track it just for one second. She's telling that abysmal story right now. The squaw invaded the... He fought back. He lost. He lost. It's why I left Starfleet. This is like those dreadful stories we were hearing in the wounded. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. That was nice. Oh, I can't remember his name. Oh, Maxwell, Captain Maxwell. Stumpy. Something like that. Stompy. Jesus Christ. But in retrospect, this isn't all a lie because all of the things that she says about her Vulcan husband are true of Cybok, he skips his colonar. He, you know, all of that kind of thing. We didn't, yeah, Colin. You're telling me that fella from Star Trek five managed to bag this hot babe. Yeah, well, maybe. Well, you know, like maybe they'll have a hotter version of Cybot because it's 2020 something. him again before the season's out because we only see the back of his head in this. Yeah, that's all we've seen. Oh, they're probably... Getting us interested. Yeah. Oh, see, but she's doing well. She's selling me. I don't use guns thing. I'm a good girl. Do you know what? I think it would have been so immeasurably if she'd have turned evil a bit earlier. Yeah, well, she's fabulous when she turned... And every arm movement. Honestly, it's all... Why are these people all here? Like, it makes no sense at all. Like, Una's there. Why is Ortega there? Like, and why is slap on there? They've got to get them all off the shit because they're pretty useful. They might be able to like, you know, take the pirates down. But it is a bit like... Every other 90s trek episode where half, you know, half the senior staff are down on the away show. because we don't care. Honestly, this is such a hot cast. I know, I know. So, do we think that this, this, um, the Alpha Braga 3 thing, the Alpha Braga 4 thing. Is that named after Brannan Bragan? Possibly. Yeah, he's right in the Orville now. Yeah, I know, I know. Actually, that's had some pretty good reviews now. I wanna check that out. Yeah, I keep meaning to see series 3, but I... You have from Star Trek to watch. I know. Yeah, I have proper Star Trek to watch with reflective surfaces. Speaking of which, look at the floor of engineering and look at that set. Holy crap, it's amazing. No difference to me whatsoever. I'm sorry. No, that's what you want. You want astonishingly great visuals. That's why we have Star Trek. And that looks amazing. I've got 3 words for you, all right? All the excuse you need to watch series 3 of the Orville. Penny Johnson Gerald. Yeah, she is pretty great. She is amazing. She's pretty great. Look at this. It is delicious. In fact that's that wall again, isn't it? You can kind of, I, he's an, I don't know. Certainly there's actual, yeah, maybe. no bloody way they've got a set that big, I'm telling you. No, that big. I think I might be able to see whether it is impressive. Well, heaps of those tube things are actually practical, and I think it's possible in the long shot to tell where the last practical one is, and the one on the wall is, but I could be wrong right in Tweet us, if we're wrong. But you know, it looks incredible. None of it's real, for goodness sakes. We just go with it. Don't we? Yeah, yeah, but it just looks astonishing. It's beautiful. There we go. Oh, yeah. There we go. She's got 2 guns. Not just one. Oh, no. Captain Angel. I am a pirate. You're a dumbass. At this point, at this point, I was going, so is the enterprise. No, I was watching this at 5 in the morning. Mark was asleep when I was going, you fucking idiots. When she pulled out the gums. He's like, you all right? No, it's just going trick. Oh, look, did you see that hallway blown in the wall there? Look, it's just a little black scar. Oh, here she goes. Oh, you're so cute too. And the thing about feelings, too, where he says feelings are my concern, and it's kind of like I've been playing you for the entire episode. She's got in his head. So now she basically takes the piss out of everything she's learned about him, which is wonderful. And you know, like she threatens to kill him and all sorts of stuff like that, but I think that there is a thing like, but frankly, that's on you. Yeah, you believe in it. That's on you. I was like, you said it, sweetheart. All right. Let's see. This is going to be chair. I feel like this actress has been waiting to get in that chair her entire life. She's so good, isn't she? This is fun. So she's on the new queer as folk, and she is part of a lesbian couple who have a child on the 1st night of the of the show on the 1st episode. And, um, which has been a thing that's happened now in all 3 iterations of, of, um, of Queer as Fogue. And I didn't much rate queer as folk. I've only seen the 1st episode of the new version, but she was clearly the best thing in it. Like, yeah, yeah. Now this is Stone. So this Vulcan, this weird looking Vulcanist Stone. And so in a, is it in a mock time where the relationship between um, to bring and, yeah, yeah, yeah. ends and she goes off with Stone. And it's interesting to remind us of that. Yeah. So that's that character. So it's interesting to remind us of that here because this relationship is doomed. We already know that it doesn't go anywhere. Sorry, I'm so sorry. She went. I have a captive here. It's Spuck. Do you know him? Oh, she's great. Oh, I'm enjoying this more watching it with you, do you know? So the obvious thing is, if we're 2 days away from being able even to get a message to Starfleet, how come Tapring just rocks up at the very end when we need her to for this hilarious comedy A plot? It just... Like, you know, it's Star Trek, who cares? I did like is then if Chappel and Spock have not had any history they're just close friends, where there's a bit of a will, they won't they? The fact then that they have to kiss and put on this massive charade. And then he, you know, he's, he genuinely probably feels something like we can tell that for Chapel. And then there's that scene between Pring and Spock at the end where she's like, oh, you were just, you know, acting. and he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. he just rushes off to jump on her immediately. Like they do go and have a, you know, like they have sex almost immediately and she put some of what she learnt from reading the Argonauts into practice, I hope. amazing ability to both look completely disinterested and loving every 2nd of this. It's extraordinary. Seriously? Fabulous, flouncy overacting and like putting her fingertips to a chest and all of them. Oh, and now she's too sad about the she's colonist. You believe that. You believe that shitty story I told you. I mean come on. This could be a joke in lower decks. It's so good. isn't it? And that's, like, I think that, you know, we've had villains. Star Trek doesn't normally do villains all that often. The films do, and we had a sire last year, but I think she's an absolutely magnificent Star Trek felon, and I'm dying to see her back. Oh, man, I'm desperate to not say it, but I'm gonna say it. You know what? series did grey villains, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, Deep Space 9 has... Yeah, that's right. has characters who are regular villains. Yeah, that's true. And do you know why? Because we're also fucking over the top like she is. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well, maybe not the female shapeshifter. Have you remember that line when she tells them to execute all the Kardassians? sterilise the Cardassians or something. eliminate them. And it's so ridiculous. It's kind of like, so they have to kiss in order to get out of it and that's it. you know. Mate, you know what? Actually, you know what? Maybe that's it, is that those scenes on the Enterprise are so fun that the contrast with the... It's a bit like comparison. Yeah. pirates, they're so dull. Honestly. Yeah, yeah. The most exciting pirate in this, apart from, you know, the lead villain, is Pike at the end when he's going... you know, on the bridge. I love that because that's a classic space dad moment. Like he is absolutely being your dad. And so, and then... She just goes, shut up. Oh, sorry. Because she's laughing because she's laughing at what a dickhead he's being and just like, no, please stop it. You know, please stop. And it's a delightful. It's such a nice character moment. Is she the one that was sleeping with him? No, no, no, no. Una is the one he rescues. who's gone missing on the planet. There is a sort of like husband wife vibe about them. Because she's like the wife going, oh, shut up, Pike. Yeah, that's right. That's it. Maybe they're our space mum and dad. The woman who he is sleeping with in that 1st episode does come back to appear later. Did you say that pirate there? She must have been excited. She got a whole line. Your gruel. This is my moment on TV. Oh no, here we go. Back to what's her name? Yeah, back to, to preing it. No, no, not Dupree. The villain. her name? Oh, Angel. wow She was Dr. Aspen, but now she's angel. She's got to come back, isn't she? Oh, yeah, well, she is going to be with Cyborg. Like, and I can't see a world where she's not more interesting than Cybok. I was just about to say the same day. I can't imagine... It's going to be as fun as she is. No, look. Oh, my word. She just shot Spulk. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have 10 minutes to hand over. Zavarius. Zaverius is such a shitty original trek name. And didn't you see the camera was in on that then? It zoomed straight in on a... Yeah, I feel like with her character, they know exactly what they're doing, you know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, no wonder she's having fun. She's got to rang about with this dull bunch all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, she's got Spark. really attractive. Do we find out what's a serene manipulator? away from this? Are they just going around capturing ships? Yeah, well, the colonists are all made up. Conveniently, the colonists are all made up so that we don't have to worry about them or do anything about them at the end of the episode. They're not real. She was just lying about them. which is a sort of tidy way of meaning that we could just get on with our lives once this is all over. Well, Nathan, they do this a lot in Shrek, you know, try and make us care about a whole colony going under. Your general response is this. we don't know those people. So never mind. Look at her. When when Sheppel says, no, we're having an affair, an age of kind of goes, oh, come on, you've got to be kidding. That's the most bullshit thing I've ever heard. so great. And I also think what's great too is he says in advance, I apologise for any liberties that I take, because we can't have Spock just grabbing Chapel and kissing her, but she realises what he's doing before he says it and so she's the one who comes out and does her name. see how she's shutting her eyes there. She's loving it every moment of this. When she was on home and away. Do you think that she ever imagined that one day she'd be kissing Mr. Spock on television? It's onto a mansion. Oh, Spock at that. I can just see those TRS badge, you know? Oh my god, look at them both. You know those TRS fans have come to this because they... What about that reaction? Oh, you guys are fun. They want this to be like the original series. I could just see them crying going, what is this? You know? But I mean, this is kind of like the original series preposterous. This whole charade of air in your dirty laundry. Do you remember when Cesca turned up and went, hello, Chicone. By the way, I'm having your baby. These moments on the bridge where it's all revealed is wonderful. Yeah. Cesca was a great villain. We said Star Trek didn't do villains, but Cesca was magnificent. What a boring way to break up. Look, holding up your fingers and saying, oh, our link is broken. But it is, you know, there's there's an episode of Lower Decks called Wedge Dudge, which is Klingon for 3 ships, and one of the ships is a Vulcan ship, and they do that thing where the Vulcans are just kind of... What they're ridiculous. pirate all about. Look at it. Hey, with a dreadlock. Go wash your face. Go and watch your face. Oh my good god. What a strange buzz. And look, do you see the man at the door with the octopus face holding the gun? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's pretty good That's a set of star tag bunch. I don't know where there's pike with his... But he's kind of taken over. He's taken over pirate ship. He's absolutely not a Boy Scout. And like they're on the bridge, but they're being attacked from outside. So we're not going to see that yet because we've got to persuade the pirates off the sheer. He's utterly channelling Lee triple E John from Doctor Who. The way he's holding that wheel, like very over the top. I'm a pirate, you know? Just gently hit the impulse engines, Erica. Why is it in these science fiction shows? Only the pirate ships have the old-fashioned ship wheels. Well, because that's cool, they're pirates, you know, and you've got to sell that they're pirates. So that's how you do it. It's awesome. That man's tardy, his br looks back between those 2 things. It was clearly annoying. more important things going on right now. Oh, dear, dear. Yeah, see, I believe her, I think she did enjoy meeting Mr. Spock and then we get the Zavarius reveal. We work out who Zveri is. Why is she giving up? don't understand. Well, because, well, because they've taken over the pirate ship. Is that more powerful than the price? on the Enterprise. Well, yeah, but like whatever. But, yeah, it's a thing. Yeah. It's time for the episode to end. won't be the. the last time that Star Trek has a shit resolution, is it? That don't make any sense. But it gives us a bit of time to sort of, it doesn't just sort of resolve and then go. I noticed that she abandons all of the other pirates on the Enterprise and so they can capture. Just like, she doesn't give a shit. She's got her and that little necklace thing that she used to transport was the necklace that she got Spock to put on her earlier on. Did you see that? It had little legs and it was crawling across the asteroid. Yeah, yeah, amazing. That's awesome, isn't it? Yeah, I feel like... I feel like they're being much more creative with their like spaceship designs. Yeah. in last day, just because the CGI is so sophisticated. Oh, look, the pirates being led out with their hands on their heads. It reminds me that ends a batter, bing, batter bang. But look, there's still so now they're in this sort of scene where people are crock climbing their calls to attack them. Because they're mutiny. They haven't actually successfully managed to take up the ship at all. They've just broken onto the bridge and everyone's climbing up to get them. I mean here we go. You know what? It's fine. It's a bit of shit as well. Star Trek, that's exactly the thing. exactly what they're going for. Here we go. Here we go. I love this. Look at... Oh my god. We have a catch a big head. We should make them walk the plank. Please stop. She is totally in Vegas. I'm telling you. But you know what? I saw a tweet recently where someone put like, I just know these characters. I love these characters. And I think, like, no matter what the quality of the episode you're happy to go on a journey with these people. That's hard. That is half the battle with Star Trek, isn't it? And they've done like by episode one. And partly it's because most of the characters come with a sort of ready-made background that we've been aware of, you know, 50 years or whatever. Um, and that helps, you know, and it also helps that we've seen some of them on discovery fairly recently too. And but we love them instantly. Like, I think Laan is amazing and she's not for me. I was a bit unconvinced by her in the pilot, wasn't I? And I'm fairly certain they probably softened some of those rough edges by now. Oh, no, she's still... She's still got a bug up your bath. Oh good. Yeah, yeah. And she gets 2 gone episodes in which to kind of, you know, This has an element of tragedy to it because we know they ain't going to last. Yeah, it's not going to last. And obviously, we know that Pike... Oh, he's going to end up. So like this whole series has an element of tragedy to it. no matter how funny it is. Yeah. And yeah, now they're going to jump on one another. Come on, go on. Tell us what Erica, Jong. No, I'm sorry, the kiss between him and Chappell was way hotter than that. Yeah, wasn't it? much hotter. She's beautiful, though. Oh, she is. But the Vulcans, you know, they're all so repressed, aren't they? I bet the sex is a bit boring. No, wait. See, she should be about to jump on him after reading all of that English smut. All of that human smut. I'd like to say that I have, in fact, been ordering those on Amazon while we've been talking. I did actually buy the Argonaut, so I will read that. I'll let you know in the next episode how I got on with them. Okay. Oh, this is awkward. I'm so sorry. Isn't it? She is so good. It's so good. And of course, you know, he's there to thank her for being so convincing on the bridge, but of course, she's convincing. He is hot for him. You know how like some actors are just effortlessly likeable? Like, they don't ever do anything. Like, she just hasn't, doesn't she? Yeah, she really does. And I'm glad that they decided to go somewhere different. Do you know what, as well? I love these unrequired storylines. I loved it with Odo, Kira. Oh, actually, I didn't like it so much, that dreadful Neelix Tom Paris and Kiz thing. Yeah, it was awful. But it's when you've got the character looking longingly from afar. You can't help but just, you know, feel sorry for those characters. They are good together and that scene from the uh, from Spocker Mark, uh, which has a lot of hang time. Like they just go to a bar and she talks to Spock about his relationship and it's nice. It's normal. It's kind of like normal people interacting. I know they've had a muck time time mark. They take the... I love it. Oh, here we go. Back to the back to the prison with Stone and his unfortunate haircut. He's bad, bad Vulcan haircut. I just, I don't know, I... I knew this is coming. It was revealed to me because everyone was talking about it on Twitter. I still didn't quite believe it until I saw it. I think that's so great. Absolutely do that. I dare you, you know. They'll do it well as well. They'll salvage our character. In fact, I'm fairly certain by the end of Kersman Trek, if it ever ends. They'll take every part of Star Trek that hasn't worked and do a bangout repair job on all of it. I'm going to compare something to you. I thoroughly enjoyed watching that with you far more than I enjoyed watching it on my own. Uh, but I think I think you had something to do with that. I still think that is a little plain as a Star Trek episode. Yeah, yeah. It's it's probably the most throwaway episode of the season. But that doesn't mean there aren't great moments with our characters and particularly spending time in the fuck and the angel is... And the action, like you said, there isn't many sort of performance pieces in Catsman Track, because they're such ensemble pieces now, aren't they? other characters come in, but there's so many other people. And this kind of shows how that can salvage an episode in Kursman trick. Yeah, well, I mean, I think that's right. There is a lot going on and and I think that there is something a little bit more leisurely. It's like that they're doing 50 minute episodes the way that the original series does. And they're using that extra time not just to kind of bore us and make us wish the episodes were shorter, which is what TOS tended to do. But by spending time on our characters and getting them to interact with one another. And I think there's just something effortlessly charming about it. And something that reminds you of original Trek. And I just think it's thoroughgoingly enjoyable. I'm absolutely surprised. What's fascinating about this is, this is what they try to do with Enterprise, is is set uh series pre-all those 90s, pre-TOS. Yeah, and it kind of bombed for a lot of reasons. Then they tried to do it with discovery and they said, actually, do you know what? In order to do interesting storytelling, we're going to have to go into the future and do post 90s trait storytelling. Strangely wells is basically we're here to stay in the TOS universe or just free TOS universe. And they're fucking rocking it, you know? With a mixture of originality and some just glowing nostalgia. Yeah, yeah. I think perhaps the biggest success is the decision to do something with the gone, like they take something iconic and fantastic. What does he look like? Oh my god. so good. So episode nine. So there's an early episode, maybe 3 or 4 where we don't see the Gorn coming out of their spaceships, but they're a threat. And then we see that Gorn come out of their spaceships in episode nine, which is astonishing. It's really scary and really amazingly kind of heartbreaking. Surely not as scariest, the one in arena. No, maybe not. They're not wearing the frock that they're wearing in the arena this way. It makes all the difference. But, like, I just think, you know, a little bit of character serialisation, some charming performances, a lead who is just sexy and charming as hell in Anson mouth. You know, we loved him when he was in discovery and we were right to do that because he is superb. Um, yeah. I mean, all I'm going to say is, if that is the weakest episode of Strange New Worlds, we just laughed all the way through it. Yeah, yeah. That's what it was for. It's definitely doing it. It's doing something right. Yeah. All right, we're nearing the end, and so it's time for us to choose an episode to talk about next time, and it's my turn on the randomiser, and I am going to do something much more prescriptive than usual. So instead of like 90s trek or goddamn it, anything at all. I am going to pick from one series that we have. Yeah. So I'm going to just pick from Star Trek Lower Decks. and it's part of the... Well, it's because we've only done one of them so far. And it is actually starting up again in a few weeks time, I think. I think it may be before... to Deep Space nine. Yeah, it's going to be fun. So I'm on untitled Star Trek project.com slash randomiser. I have picked Star Trek Lower Decks and I am raising the button now. I literally won't have a clue. So you're going to have to fill me in. It's 2nd contact. And that's the pilot, isn't it? That's the 1st episode of series one. So I don't think we're going to do it. They do have a later episode called First contact, which is the Cerrito's 1st contact, which might actually be the... Yeah, go on. Say something about 2nd contact because I watched a YouTube video the other day of like the top 10 most contentious Star Trek episodes. and it had things like rejoined on there, you know obviously because there was a few funeral about that. and it had the finale of enterprise because everyone hated the fact it was a TNG episode in disguise. And then they had 2nd contact and it was the 2nd most contentious episode according to this fella from Trick or whatever it was. And his, it was basically like, people didn't like, people didn't like the humour and all this and that. I'm like, that's not been my experience. at all, as far as I can see it. Everyone's absolutely a doors lower decks. Yeah, yeah. Some people just hate fun. Yeah, I think that's the problem. Point fingers though. All right, we'll just say that generally. All right. I'm going to press the button again. Okay. Oh, okay, Cupid's errant arrow. I think I know which one this is, and I think it's an episode that it's from series one episode five. Um, and it is... Oh, please tell me it's the one where he's got the girlfriend and she's trying to find out all the way. Oh, that is such a good episode. Yeah, I think so too. What a joy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We go through every fucking appreciate it. Star Trek. Every Star Trek plot gets toyed with and then promptly dismissed. It's really, really fun. She had Duplica. She's been taken over. She's like, oh, it is just the blind. What's the A plot in that, though? I can't remember. I think that's the A-plot, I know, whatever we will find out. All right. So, Cupid's Darren Arrow. Well, what's interesting is we're going from a technically a comedy to a comedy. So be interesting to see how this compares. You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley. We're online at untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel. Our podcast artworkers by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb. This episode was recorded and released on the 5th of August 2022. We'll see you next time for Star Trek Lower Decks, Cupid's errant arrow. All right, I'm cracking that tea. Oh, it's way more positive than the world's gonna be. It's new. Yeah. I'm right to love it. Bloody hell, after all that enthusiast. Even more knackered.