Assimilation

Hey, Joe. Hi. So, we're coming to the listener from the past this week because we're going to be watching episode 3 of Picard and we're recording and look, it says on the website and at the end of the episode, so this isn't a spoiler, it's the 26th of April. And so the most recent episode of Picard is episode eight, which I haven't had time to see. And so we don't know how it ends, but you might, because we're not releasing this for a couple of weeks. So we're pointing on something that we don't know how it ends. Where are you up to in series 2. Well, 1st of all, I just want to say hello from the past. It's very nice here today. I'm actually, oh, this is a terrible thing to admit, but this is the last episode of Picard. of this season. This is where I stopped. Right. And I do want to talk about that, you know, because people might think, well, that's because I hated this episode and I didn't. I actually think this is an above average episode of Star Trek Picard. I think I've got a bit of an issue with watching things with everybody else. And this is a thing I've come to realise with Kurtisman Trey, I thought to myself, do I not enjoy Kurtzman Trey? Actually, I quite liked Picard series one. I've quite liked some of Discovery. I really enjoy lower decks and I still haven't watched series 2 and I think it's just a bit of like, I quite like discovering it a little bit later on my own, you know? And then I'll go back and I'll kind of read everybody else's opinion. But yeah, it's a bit contrary really, isn't it? But, I don't want to do this with you lot, all right? You enjoy it. And then and then I'll get the mirrors a bit later on. right? I have said before on the podcast that with Discovery and Picard I'm there week of and as soon as possible. And it's only just that this week has been very podcasting heavy and full of personal things that has prevented me from seeing it yet, but I am very much looking forward to it. And so because you haven't seen it, I'm going to say that I have some misgivings about the direct in which it ends up going, and there are some things that I desperately hope get addressed. Things that are kind of surfaced at the beginning of the series that are fascinating and that I'm looking forward to having a dress. And in fact, one of them comes up in this episode, and I might comment on it. So, it is an interesting position to be in. We're so used to talking about things that we've lived with. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What did you deny? There's a lovely sort of warm nostalgia about talking about 90s trek. I think we're both discovering original trek kind of fresh through this thing because neither one of us has, you know, an intensity experience with that. And this is all brand new. That's the joy of this thing, isn't it? we've got 50 years of television to watch it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, more than that, really, like 55 years or something. But one of the things is that I really enjoyed series one of Picard, even though I think it didn't quite get the serialisation right. I think it struggled in those middle episodes. And they're all very like, if I try and think of them as individual episodes, any of them, those middle ones, they're very indistinct, you know? Whereas I remember the first. I remember the last two, but the rest of it's a bit of a blur. And yeah, I think as a whole, it worked. And interestingly, when when, um, I went back and watched the 1st episode for a 2nd time. I enjoyed it far more. It's weird, isn't it? Sometimes you go in with massive expectations and the episode almost like deliberately confounds them because I think we went in expecting kind of next generation with a budget, you know, and some decent filming techniques. And actually, it wasn't that at all. It really wasn't that. It was doing something completely different. And I think it put a lot of people off and the other half of the audience said, wow, this is like really, really fresh. We going to go with this. And I think it took that year because the last episode, I think, I think I'm fond of more fun of the last episode than you are. I thought that was one of the best Kurtzman episodes. I thought it paid it off really, really well, especially those scenes at the end with Picard and Data. They were beautiful. I did like the last episode, but I had political issues as usual with the resolution. But there are things in the last episode that I absolutely adore. And since it's going to come up. One of them is that scene where Picard has died and and little Eleanor, um, goes up to Raffi and just, you know, cries into her bosom. And it's so beautiful. And I think Elanor. Like, it's weird as an Australian, hearing an Australian accent on genre TV, you know, because we don't really make any television. We make names. You're like, no. No I've never even heard of it. No. Oscape is amazing. Yeah, it was made in Queensland. I'm not gonna watch that. But it's so weird hearing that accent. and he's such a, he's got one Greek parent, I think, and one Maori parent, Evan, and he's got that Australian accent and he is, he's so pretty in that 1st season and he's played for comedy, which is such a surprising thing. He's not funny himself, but there's something about his naivety and stuff that the other characters kind of play off. And because he's a kid, not just a Picard, but to all of the other characters as well. It plays really well. So I thought I would get that tribute in because I'm going to be overcome with grief pretty early on in this episode. No, I want to rain on your parade. So the episode we watched in series one, the Penthe. I don't think he featured at all. And if he did, it was very minimal. And you were like, oh, you know, there's no Eleanor in it. And I remember saying to you in that recording. Who's Elanor? This is the impact this character has had on me and I'll try not to be mean whilst he is expiring in this episode. In episode two, he just kills the fuck out of a bunch of... That's all you've ever done. Actually, do you know what? You're talking about episode two. I just want to say, episode one and 2 of season two, I thought were staggeringly good. Like, I thought episode one was, like, the probably the most confident, the most assured episode of Picard, yeah. Series two, episode one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was almost like, okay, we know what we're doing now. We know who these characters are. We've got a fine ensemble. We've got that massive budget. We've created this kind of visually stylish new universe and it felt like, right, we're off. And I was so excited watching that because I was like, yeah, this is what I wanted from series one from the off. And then episode 2 here. And then went in a completely different direction. After this insane Nazi version with Picard as this mad dictator. And I was like, well, what the hell is this? This is amazing as well. I'm like, if this season is going to keep going off in these mad directions, I'm there for it. And then this episode does something different again. Again. Yeah. And then I think this is where they said, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. And I think there are really good things to come in the 4 episodes that I've seen after this, and particularly next week, I think is very good indeed. I could have done with maybe one more episode in the special alternative as well because it was just so fun. And I said to you, didn't I, that I didn't think they had used 7 of 9 effectively in Picard when we did Nepenthe, that she was my least favourite character. She was terrific in that. When she was the president of Earth. And it gave Jerry Ryan a chance to really like axe because she was having to pretend to be like this fascist president, but also like you know, she's 7 at night. It was so good, her performance. I think she's stunningly good in this episode, actually. And she has some really lovely movies. I agree. I agree. Well, before we head into the episode. I just want to talk about the serialised nature. of Picard, because like I said, I do think this is a good episode, but I thought episodes one and 2 were fantastic, and this is kind of above average, and it's because there's a lot happened. This is there's a lot of like transition in this episode and there's a lot of plots. And do you know what? In the future, looking back on Star Trek Picard as a whole. I don't think anybody's going to look at assimilation as an episode with a staggering identity of its own. Whereas the 1st episode, I think they would, and the 2nd episode, I think they would, because they were kind of like contained pieces in their own right. And this is what happened. I don't know what's going to happen in the rest of the season because I haven't seen it, but I'm guessing there's a bit more of this going on where there's just kind of a lot of running boxes. A bit like series one. We had the ball cube and you had Soji story and you had lots, you know, lots of things going on. And it's not a problem because that's where TV is now in that we are telling, you know, um, they're all like chapters in a book rather than individual pieces in their own right. I just think, Like, any next generation episode. Yeah, has an identity of its own because they were individual stories. And it's not a problem. It's just not something I like as much. Like, this isn't as memorable because it's doing a lot. Yeah. It's a little bit like our format isn't quite suited to this sort of television. But I'll tell you where they do get it right and that's the back half of series 4 of discovery, which actually manages to tell a story with a massive scale over a long period of time while producing episodes that have their own individual identity, their own arcs and their own shape. And I think it's the 1st time Kurtzman Trek gets it completely right. And I don't think I don't expect Picard to ever attempt that. I think the Picard model is, you know, some episodes building up some episodes wrapping it up and in the meantime, a series of plots, all of which get advanced from episode to episode. And things happen in episode 4 that are definitely not elsewhere. You know, it would be a memorable episode because of certain things that happen. But I don't think that's what they're doing. Yeah. I think people would look back and remember certain scenes in this episode. Like there's one incredible scene at the back end of this episode between Agnes or with Agnes and the or Queen, which I thought was just stunningly active. Um, but kind of as a piece in its own right. I don't think assimilation is gonna go down as, you know, one of the most memorable episodes of Star Trek. But I think I think what people remember is series one, series 2 series three, like that's how you'll remember Picard. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And to be honest with you, Nathan, I don't think DS9 in its latter years was immune to this as well because in that in the last 10 episodes of DS9. Now, there are very memorable episodes, but you've got stuff like strange bedfellows and when it rains, which are absolutely transitionary episodes in this vein. Yeah, yeah, which I could tell you, you know, loads of scenes in them that are amazing. Are there fantastic episodes in their own right? Do they have a unique identity? Not really They're just advancing various plots? along a bit. Yeah. And sometimes that can be unsatisfying because when you sit down to watch an hour of TV, you kind of do expect some kind of character arc or some kind of through line or for it to be about a particular type of thing. But that's not always how television goes these days, I guess. And maybe we sort of came to expect this from Star Trek because that was just the model when they brought out, you know, the length of a Bible in the 90s. Yeah. Well, you know, I actually have to say that I find this version of Star Trek more satisfying because you get to spend a longer time in a particular world and it has the sort of scale that the movies have. And I'm hugely fond of the movies, not necessarily because they're great, but because their scope is bigger and they play out over a longer period of time. And, you know, this is a series, for instance, that's riffing on Star Trek for the Voyage home, of course, which is a fan favourite and for a very good reason. And I like that about this. And I think both Discovery and Picard have been able to tell bigger stories because everyone remembers what happened last week and it's affected them in a way that never happens in Star Trek the Next Generation, just about. But I do think they're doing very different things because I think discovery is far more invested in the individual episode. And I think that far more discovery episodes, you could say, yeah that was, you know, the one on Saru's homeworld, that was the one with City of the Edge of forever. machine, you know, like that, you know, like, and that's, that's nice. It's nice that we're having like different takes on Star Trek across these different shows. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Are we ready? So I'll count us in. Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off. Off we go. So I have a huge complaint about series 2 and then... Oh my God, you're starting with this? Yeah. Raffi and Elnor's hair are both like so bad. And like I really liked both of their like their hair in series one. fucking facetial shit, right? I'm serious. It's a huge problem for me in every scene that Raffi's in and it makes it harder for me to identify with him. in her 1980s. Yeah, but I like... Well, it's it's very... Oh, this moment. So we're in... That was genius, wasn't it? Q. Cliques his finger in ages and so clever. Do you know what though? He was a bit vicious in that 2nd episode and I liked it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Didn't hit him at one point? I think so, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So can I just also do a little bit of casting trivia here too? Oh, please. The man who plays Anika's husband, so the president's husband in the fascist future. is the father of the woman who plays Soji. Oh really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you can see it, actually. He's actually in some scenes at the beginning of this episode. He's part hasn't ended. He's not just in the last week on Star Trek bit. Oh, there's Elon. It's shot at all, honestly. No, no, no. And he's a good looking guy and you can see he looks like her. I start to think the scene. No, you fancy every Asian. No, no, no, no, no. I have no type. I have no type. And I'm thinking I have a big fan of Pretty Little Elanor and... You know when I found Creos? Holy crap. Oh my, well, we'll get there. we'll get there Yeah, I've nicked that catchphrase from you now. Every time he said dear. to Anika, it creeps me out, you know. He's good. He's really good. Yeah, but he's kind of dispatched very quickly. And it's really enjoyable. What I really like this bit. So Anika does the, you know, how dare you, this is a classified operation. And then he completely sees through it immediately and then they just kill them. And it's so great because they're so horrible. Like these evil fashions. I love how adept everybody is at fighting, you know, like it's such a smooth sequence when they take everybody out. It's really... can I make it? a complaint now. Yeah. Because I'm going to sound like a fossilised dinosaur when I say this. Oh, it's bloody lens flare. Oh, it looks so good, doesn't it? I love Len Slept. I tell you what, that Star Trek movie's got a lot to answer for. But it's because there's really good practical lights in the shot and the camera's moving and that's why you're getting lens flare. I think it's good. You know, like if the camera was all just sitting there, we'd be fine. But look, they just absolutely kill the hell out of those fucking guys. It's awesome. It is, it is nice because it means the sequence wasn't for nothing because they have shop, ill no, as well. So there is a consequence to all of this. So we see them flying away from Earth and Earth has these hexagons on the, you know, like over the atmosphere. And remember the reason it has that? You see that green blade coming out? This is really upsetting, actually, this scene. And Raffi is the one who sells it. I think she is. Now, I think she's marvellous until after he dies and then I have some complaints. I think there are some good moments in her reaction to that and some good moments in the dialogue. But and so the earth with the hexagons on it is the hexagons are there because they do nothing about the climate crisis. And so they just put these things over the sky, which is poison to kind of keep the planet habitable. And so it's just... I want to keep interrupting. Go on, keep going. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this has things to say about global heating, like in the episode, but Kurtzman Trek has something to say about it. Yeah, his cue, his cue, he just appears. He gets to be special guest. I don't know what to go IQ, you know? Special guest star John Delancey for those 15 seconds. Yeah, I am going to agree with Jammer at one point, though. I don't think they do space battles, particularly dynamically. This is a good one. No, I didn't think this was great. I actually thought it felt a bit... I don't know. It's the movement. When I think of those sequences and sacrifice of angels, where we're ducking in and out of ships and things like this, and it's all very dynamic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. all a bit stately. But, but like there's character, stuff like that was just um, seven like destroying of Confederation ship and doing a really great job of it and we're happy about it because we really hate the Confederation. And... and then... Sorry to interrupt you. The queen crawling across the floor. simultaneously creepy as fuck and hilarious at the same time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And do you know what? I'm, the more I watch her, the more I'm convinced that the actress playing Agnes is like the MVP of this show. terrific. And I'm really intrigued to see where the, because I know this is going somewhere, her and the Ball Queen. Yeah. Look at that. Look at that, that beautiful shot. What, the ball queen? Yeah, with all of the tentacles suspended in front of the the... I mean, that's like something you get from 1st contact. That's a movie effect in a TV show now. But, you know, I mean, I think this generally looks better than 1st contact. Look at those lens flares. Look, and the ball queen has just blown up the another 2 federation ships. I like how she just takes control of the ship now. we're going back in time. I'm going to do it, you know. And the bloody nerve, they have him saying, 9.one, 9.3, just like Sulo, and the voyage home. I mean, this season is full of callbacks, isn't it? Oh, absolutely. It's not the last voyage home callback we're going to get this season. No. But you know what? Sometimes I think it's nice to hang a lantern on it and be like okay, we know we know this has been done before. We've done it before They should have done a call back to Futures End as well. That would been quite fun. Well, I think that this shares a lot of DNA with Future Zend, and I think Future Zend is very good. I have to say. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, except for Sarah Siltman. She is pretty in the win. I like Sarah Selfman, and I think she's particularly guilty wouldn't you? She's a kind of horrible person and I think that's awesome. Here we go. Oh, now, um... Another one of my complaints is, is you know when they go? going back in time now, yeah. They're going through the corona of the sun and all of this. I don't think this is as visually interesting as Voyage Home, you know, where they had those bizarre buss of the crew in white coming out of the sun, you know? But whereas they just sort of go, whoosh, they're gone. The sound is so well done. The sound. What about this very weird shot? Yeah, I did like that. slow motion and backwards. Reversing. Yeah, that was, and the tear crawls up girati's cheek and, and like, Picard is smiling oddly. Like, I think that's probably a callback to that scene. I don't know she's done it, you know, but Jerry Ryan just needs to get more attractive every year. So stunning, isn't she? Just fantastic. So, oh, I mean, credits? We just talk about the... Well, yeah, because friend of this podcast and all of our podcasts that we do, you and me, Stephen Alexander, seems to think that the original Star Trek Picard theme tune is the most boring thing he's ever heard in his life. And he said recently when we were talking about Picard, how they basically managed to maintain the bare bones of it, but now make it as exciting as they possibly can. Yeah, and so there was something, like, I want to say, elegiac about the series one theme, which I think is beautiful, but it does too. I really liked it. but it was a go on to. It reminded me of that original DS9 theme in that it is a little bit... you know, oh, okay. And I think this is still just as beautiful, but it does some more interesting things. And I love the titles for both series as well because they're... Are they going to change it every year? Are they basically saying, do you know what, the 1st year it wasn't that exciting? So we're going to do something more exciting. Because this, like, with the roof of the conservatory braking and the glass appearing, in series one, and then this strange representation of parallel universes and the time thing, you know which turns into a hourglass, like all of that is all queen inside glass. All of that is, is clearly series 2. And the stuff in series one has, you know, Romulus breaking up and all of that. So I think it will change every year. It just has a bit, it's certainly darker and it has more bombast to it. Yeah, I like it. It's a great piece of news. It comes in. Like, I love it. It's got a bit more teeth, isn't it? more exciting. So yay for the new tile sequence. That's what we're saying. Yeah, I agree. I agree. But, you know, this is a version, an era of Star Trek that does superb title sequences. I think. in a way that the... You compare it tonight. I know I know you are. Don't you worry. know you are. I still love Voyager going for all those nebulas. Voyager. I'm here to defend you. Yeah, no it's pretty good. You know, something I've come to love over time. I wasn't that keen on it to start off with because it was so different from, you know, the boring lounge ship of the Enterprise deal. Is this ship? And now I really love it. And I love, um, the consoles being all holograms in front of them. And the way, and the way he kind of turns them around, like, like 360? terrific. Well, in a minute, when Rios gives Picard control of the ship because Picard's old and can't cope with holograms, he just dismisses his holograms and they appear on a panel in front of Picard so that he can still cope with them. I think... He seems so frail. He can barely get his dialogue out anymore. His voice is going. Yeah. But like you can, there's something mechanical about his speech production as a result of his age and it's really audible. I think he does a great job, but he shows so much vulnerability. Yeah, but you know what? The more I thought, because initially I was just like, well, this is just weird and I'm so used to Picard being so authoritative. And Patrick Stewart's voice in the next generation was such a weapon that he used. Um, and then I thought about it. I was like, no, it's great to have an older character who is vulnerable. Spearheading a TV show. Like that's different. I agree. Refreshing. It's good. I think it's a really good choice. And I think the regular cast is so great. Like I just love these new characters so much. I mean, they were always going to surround it. by hot young things weren't they? Yeah, but it wasn't going to be, you know, the geriatric next generation crew all around him. No, but I'd have to say that like Rios and Raffi are older than any of the, do you think than any of the regulars in series one of Star Trek, the Next Generation? Yes. Yeah, definitely, apart from, you know. And they may be Patrick Stewart's age. I mean, how old is he? The youngest? she probably is, isn't she? Oh, no, Eleanor's the youngest, obviously, he's a kid. Oh, yeah. Jerry Ryan must be what, mid 40s now. Oh no, because she's got to be older than me. I think, like I think, I don't know. I don't know. Really? That surprises me. That surprises me. Oh, so here we go now. Now. Okay. So this is one of the big events I think people are going to remember this episode for and that is the death of Elmo. Oh, and he gets to do that little joke, the little, I'm busy at the moment with organs. And I actually... And I like the fact that she pulls out the piece of jewellery doesn't she? But also the line, she reads the line and it's, there's no time but now, and then she looks down at him and he's dead, and I think that's astoundingly good. Give me my butt here. I've watched enough Star Trek time travel episodes in my day to know that this ain't gonna stick, all right? I still don't know whether it's going to... I mean, I'll tell you what, they're playing a long game because if they have an amount for nearly an entire season. Okay, well, this is this is from the past. Hello, people from the future. You already know how this is going. Let's see. don't know. But look, I think that they sell this enough. Oh, this pretty... You say you was right in the finale? Brandon Bragger. Of course he's going to be back. He's not joking. joking. And why have they sidelined him? Like I think they give Raffia a running plot because he's dead and give her motivation and give Michelle some serious acting moments. It is, it is plausible, but I find that they push the characterisation a bit, and there's a scene where she criticises Picard in a minute, and I don't buy it at all. I, that's a line that I think is amazing and I'll tell you why when we get to it. But, um, Maybe it's the performance then. I was just like, this is a bit strong for somebody who says that she knows him very, very well. Oh, look at him. He is pretty, isn't he? So pretty, but he's so sweet. Like for someone who, you know, uh, is, is, uh, sort of Romulan truth ninja or whatever, he carves people up and kills bunches of people and stuff, that he's so sweet and so innocent and so funny. And the hug that he gives 7 of 9 when he 1st meets her in series one and that hug I mentioned before when he's crying at Picard's death. This, this moment here, she's fridging him. She's putting him in the fridge and she can't close the door. There's just a moment where she stops and kind of then has to force herself to push the door closed the rest of the way. I think that's really good. Do you know the scene post his death that really convinced me was the one where 7 tried to make her talk about it. And you have 2 people in a relationship. I won those, the other ones going through trauma, and she just kept pushing her away. And to have 7 of 9 who, you know, usually shies away from that sort of thing. I thought that was it was awkward and it felt very real. Yeah, I think their relationship is great. I think their relationship is really good. And look, he's 7 saying you should have let Rios. He could have been in love with Chakotay, you know, Nathan, you know, that wasn't potential. So this is what I like. So there's this line here where he, she says, and you don't know where it's going. Raffi, I know what you're feeling, and she says, I promise you don't, because what I'm feeling right now, and you think it's a grief or something, intense grief or intense rage or intense something, and it's sharp. The line disappointment in leadership is so understated verbally and it hits so strongly. I think it's a really well written line and that's the other thing that's a real pleasure here is this is still sort of cheesy science fiction genre TV dialogue, but it's generally so much better. And there's some really, really properly funny stuff, which is why you... She's going, oh, you 2 play games together and blah, blah, blah. Like, if she knew because, no, he doesn't. Q plays the games. No, the cheeseang reacts to them. Yeah I get it. But I think that this is going to pay off. This is the thing that I referred to before. I think they raised this issue of Q and Picard's relationship. I don't want to spoil upcoming episodes, but it comes up again. And it is the what is the deal with Q and Picard? And that, that what Raffi says is a plausible reading of what's happening. You know, that they meet every year. They do banter, people get killed, and then we go off on our next jolly adventure. So it's not an unfair thing for her to say. Yeah, because you remember in Q-Hoo, where he, uh, the Bork took out that massive slice of shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And all those people in the cake coming out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and, you know, Q says this isn't, you know, we're not just having fun here. Sometimes you're going to get a bloody nose. Yeah, yeah. going off exploring the universe. Yeah, you know. Picard says, well, that's not going to stop me. you know? Yeah, yeah. So I think that I hope that that goes somewhere, that that assessment of Q, not being malevolent, but in some way, it's the Q Picard Dyad, that's the problem. I want to go somewhere. Like, should they give a definitive reading on that? No, no, no. No, no, no, no. I think it should be a bit ambiguous, but I do, I like it being raised and I would like it to go to another level. Because this is coming to a conclusion now, because we know Patrick Stewart isn't going to make any more of the series free you know, like, you know, he's got one Star Trek. Yeah. So maybe they just, they do want to bring it to a conclusion, you know. Yeah, like if, you know, something to say. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And something to say about Picard and something to say about, like it would be interesting. Like, I don't want some explanation of the queue or, you know they're from this planet or whatever, that's all super tedious. I don't want space reasons, but I do want some character thing. Yeah. Like, I do think it's worth stepping back from me. Just to say that it's astonishing that this exists 20 years after this generation, that that Captain Picard is back as a very old man, you know, with his bold new crew. Whoever falseen this kid, like 10 years ago, Ivana said to you well, Patrick Stewart's going to be back and we'll have 7 at 9 on his career. would come back and do Star Trek after a horrible experience. Joe Ford, you speak absolute not super same to me, yeah. So good. So what's the name of this actress playing the ball? I can't remember. She's on bloody marvellous. I'll tell you. Yeah, look her up. You've got Google people at all. Do you know what she does? She manages to be very, very chilling. But also a big camp. She's got a lot of character about her, you know? And it is an absolutely different take from the 1st contact queen played by Alice Krieg, who is sexy and who, sorry, who seduces data with physical sensation. And remember that she's sort of glistening and geege-esque in, but you know, she's also in the body of a sort of sexy woman and there's that sort of disgust. There's... I know you're saying. Yeah, it's a bit uncomfortable, isn't it? Well, you know, alien, where, where the alien, there's all sorts of kind of vaguely gross sexual imagery and stuff in alien and Giga is someone who... Just the idea that the alien explodes out of your stomach. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's other stuff as well that where which is sort of gross and sexual and they're sort of sticky fluids everywhere and all of that. And you get that with... A lot of illusions to like motherhood as a merit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly right. Exactly right. So there's a kind of body horror, like something about disgust and sex and disgust are not a 1000000 miles apart. I don't know. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. Trust me. But here, I don't think she's sexy. I don't think she's that's her primary thing. I mean, she's a beautiful woman, but she's not playing on her sexuality. She is just smart as hell. Like incredibly smart. And so this episode... There's like a cold aliens about it, but also she's just very, very funny. She's a bit funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she's having fun. And so she was sort of weird last episode and it was because she was aware of the kind of break in the timeline. And she gets dialogue here saying, um, this is before the divergence in the timeline, so I'm much more myself. And she's funny and smart and sad. And you know what? I think the genius thing there is, and then you take Agnes, who is this very awkward, geeky, vulnerable, lovely character. And like just in this episode alone where she heads into her head the ball queen's head, essentially. It's chilling as fuck. and you like you love Agnes, you know, and the thought of the ball queen exerting her influence over her controlling her. Are we talking over real's outfit and his bum as he leaves that scene? Can we please have a look at the aesthetics in this scene? Look at what 7's wearing. This is Battlestar Galactica. lighting. Look at the uniforms. Like when she turns around in a minute. It can literally be an episode of Battle Star. Yeah, where's it looking in that hexagonal mirror and see. Oh, because the implant's not there. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, she is magnificent in this episode and I'll point out the 2 bits where I think she really, really works. It's the bit where she, the girl says, are you a superhero? That's lovely. Jesus, she's so funny. And this is the scene you were talking about where Raffi and 7 where 7 says, if you want to talk and Raffi says, no, I absolutely don't. You know, men, you know, I'm gay. I remember in relationship with men. Men are notoriously bad about talking about their feelings. And where they just talk really, really fast and you're trying to get a word in and you're trying to get them to engage with how they're feeling and this is just so real. It's wonderful. Yeah. Picard and his experiences with the Borg. Yes. He's just saying no to Agnes. not going inside her head. Like, this is a bad idea. And I do like the fact that this plays out for a couple of scenes because Picard isn't instantly convinced by what Agnes wants to do. And this isn't, this is the last episode you've seen, but this is not consequence free, but she does win this episode in just the most superb. It's a great line. isn't it? It's such a good line. It's the scenes between Agnes and the ball queen. coming up. Oh, yeah. I think that's going to be some of the best of the season because then this episode is absolutely my favourite part. There's even a musical number. Well, between the 2 of them. sort of. After seeing the ball queen crawling across the floor, I can't handle her singing a song. Wait, wait till you see it. It's so good Oh, is she wearing a red dress? Agnes is. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I've seen a picture. She looks beautiful. Because they always put her in these oversized smocks normally. Well, because she's a science nerd sort of thing and so she's becoming much sexier in these later episodes and a little bit more short. I'm sorry, can I just point out, we've been watching Next Generation lately, right? Yeah, a lot of it. Look at the lighting in this scene. the next generation. I love the teleport effect too, the transporter effect. It's so good Do you know what as well? The woman playing the ball queen. She's all over social media promoting this, you know. She's she's taking loads of selfies with all the cars. She's loving the hell out of it. She's so excited. absolutely adorable. Like she's so happy to be in it. I love it. It's and it's absolutely... It's only topped by, what's his name? Jerry O, is it Jerry O'Donnell? or Jerry O'Connell from Sliders, who's being in Star Trek. Is it Strange New Worlds? I'll tell you what, the excitement he's got for her, but he must be a massive Star Trek. Isn't he in Star Trek? Yeah, he's in lower decks. Yeah, he's ranked. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Honestly, it's not live action. Whereas she's in live action trek. He was at a convention and 0 my god, he was bursting like a spot. I'm telling you, he was so excited. Wow, they're a Star Trek power couple. about that? Now, I love this sequence. This sequence. So we've got California dreaming comes in here now. Oh, what a brilliant introduction. It's a great cover as well. Yeah, isn't it? I really, really like the cover. And it makes it seem more filmy and expensive. Yeah. You know, because licensing. They've got a drone up there, haven't they? They're doing lots of lovely shows. But no, I mean licensing a sound, a song for the soundtrack, I think, makes it seem more filming. But the way this is graded as well. We emphasised in the fascist 25th century or 24th century, that climate change had just been left to run rap, and oh, look at 7 smile in this, look at 7's reaction. She winks. So she kneels down in front of this little girl, not kneels down but bends down. This just shows you how she's calm. Do you remember how that is? What's her name? No, maybe Wildman. And she's kind of colder, though. So this is played for comedy. He appears up in the air. He falls down, he hits the thing. Then we get the shot from above and he's bleeding from the head and then we go to one. And the song stops. You know, like it's really, really good. You know what? I think I saw they might be on the Paramount backlock, you know? I think I saw that staircase that's in every episode. No, it's not. Now, I've got to say, I did like the scenes between Rios and the doctor. But it felt, at this point, it just, it did feel a bit like filling time in this episode. They've got good chemistry and it's all shot very well and it's perfectly entertaining. But I was like, well, what's this got to do with anything? Okay, this is what it's got to do with anything. This world here. This version of America is what leads to the fascist Confederacy. And so, yeah, that's why they're here. No, no, but I mean, at the moment the divergence hasn't happened yet. So this is... Oh, is it something to do with the doctor? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So, no, this is the version because this is the version, the version of America that's full of gun violence and poverty and inequality. It's full of like they're burning the environment. Look at how aggressively graded everything in LA is. It looks brown. The moment's already happening. happening. We're heading towards it now. that that's what they're trying to say, that America now, and it will come up in later episodes as well, is heading towards the confederation, that we're on a knife edge. Something will happen that either leads us to a utopia or to the Confederation. And so... Because obviously, the whole point of that Nazi was racist. They're pushing out all, and that's what those scenes were all about. Yeah, it's the immigration coming in. Yes, Joe. And so at this thing here, we just talked over the mugging, which is so superb. Oh, that's marvellous. Yeah, yeah, yeah, where she just kind of looks at him and they just beats the crap out of him. fabulous female character. Yep. It's all his money. Like empty squallets. They have a, do you know what? They have a fabulously cute moment in a minute where 7 of 9 keeps saying, instead of saying taking a picture. She's like, oh, yeah. Well, I think we're going to the other three. Yeah, that's right. It's the other scene, which as well. I wasn't sure if I would actually, but I really got them as a couple. really good. And, you know, I don't like this sort of thing at all, but what hot couple? Yeah, yeah. I think they're I think they're stunning. I think Michelle Heard is so incredibly great. And, you know, in both series. I just, I really feel like they've, they've got this ensemble right? They've got this cast of characters right and it took that 1st season to get it right because they all had to go on that journey. But now, like, especially in the 2nd episode where they were all like, shit, we're in this bizarre, not, see, um, alternative world we've all got to work together, we've all got to try and get out of this. I'm like, yeah, this is what I wanted to see in series one, you know? In fact, episode one where it's like 2 years after series one and their relationships have progressed in that time and I really really like that. You know, I was kind of thinking, how does episode 2 start? Are they just all on La Serena for no particular reason and like they're coming home from that planet or something, another adventure happens. No, you know, like there's there's solid reasons for them to reach out to each other and they all know and trust one another and and I really like that. Do you know, Nathan, you do that thing, you know, where you say a foreign word and that's the one word you put the accent on. Yeah, you know, it's a thing. I don't want to... It's very sexy, you know? Say it again. There's some Spanish coming up to, and I don't know Spanish. I know some Italian, but they have Spanish dialogue that's not subtitled or is subtitled as talking in Spanish. And there's one line which I think I understood. So do you know already what the moment is that caused the divergence? No. So you're what, episode 7 and then they still haven't told you yet. Do you know what? If it's anything like that discovery, when I was waiting to find out what calls the burn and it was that kid screaming out for his mother, won't be happy. instead of the Romulans or something. That's right. So... Oh, no, you'll just die now, wouldn't you? Mr. Romulans, come back into the part, Arsenal, and this, yeah eh? So... And so this is the thing where we start to get the border between Agnes and the queen. Creepy. Yeah, yeah. And so she's the queen at the moment. I'm going to tell you now this is some of the best acting I've seen in this show. Yeah, she goes between the 2 characters. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. and the 2 of them together. It's really good. I mean, that's why this plot gets the title. See, here. Look, this shot here of them in, what is it, Los Angeles? It's going to come from Futures End, you know? It's very similar. But you look at how everything is brown and how it just looks like the world is burning up. Like this looks like a dystopian future. It's shot, it's 2 years from now, but it looks like a dystopian future. And they kind of oversell it in this scene when they look out across at the hills, which are all on fire, but that was a thing that happened. Is that where the suspense of this going forward is then, is like we're introducing all these characters and it's kind of a running storyline in the present or the near future. Um, And we're waiting to see which one of these elements is important. I, they introduce an element which is a bit science fiction-y, and I don't know how it ends, but when they introduce... Tell me, I don't know. I'm not going to say that. Rios says, well, how does that change the future? And I kind of think, ooh. So this might just be a red herring. And I, because I think, I think that the... Why is this scene? This scene where... where the 2 of them are convinced... It's so funny. And the fish are out. I mean, to be fair, this does look like an Instagram picture, the 2 of them next to each other. But it is that thing where she says strangers don't normally like me. Oh, yeah, I love that one. Is that interesting? And it's true as well, isn't it? Because you think about Voyager when everybody was very, you know. And she's fun at having fun. I also love... To be fair, though, she used to chip him off with lines like, you know, to Tom Paris and Blada Torres, there's nobody on deck 5 section 4 that doesn't hear you having intimate relations. There was a reason why people were a bit cultable, so. But... But... Oh, he's so beautiful. And this thing here where she just says, all right, off you go. You know, you reckon you can walk out of here. Go on. Whee, then he just falls over. The best bit is where he starts telling his story. And then halfway through, she snaps his hand back. And I was going, oh, we doing this for an old story and I was like there's just a version. It was really good. But this here and next week. So they're arrested at the end of this episode, both of them, and they're taken away by ice by immigration and customs enforcement which is, and like everyone is racist towards them. And people use racial slurs to refer to the, um, and they're, you know, they're basically... I just thought driving the point home because her dad's there, you know, so like, cool, we've got to get my dad out of the back door and then the man who comes in, who, you know, there's no subtle in here and he's like, why, you know, you foreigners. Yeah, yeah, but it goes on. But now, yeah, actually... So he's Chris... So he gives his name here, Chris, he's giving his name now and they call, they deliberately mispronounce it. They, you know, call them Pedro and things like they, you know like they just use racial slurs because ice is all about getting you know, Latino, Latina, people out of America, you know, and finding illegals and people who are undocumented and stuff. And this is. And to be fair, you know, this is this is absolutely making a comment on... Yeah, just what's happening in America and in England and probably everybody. Oh, look, Australia has its own really horrific version of this sort of thing happening as well. And but is this around the time of the Bell riots? I don't know. I think that may have been in 2024. Yeah, it is in the 2020s certainly the Bell riots, yeah. I don't know what it is. It's just as the scene. right, just as the scene is about to get super corny. And she's about to see how proud she is of it. Now that's how you do it. You make people think, oh, no. Oh that's clever. That is clever. And then she says, good story. Do you know what, do you know what it is, right, about Rios, that makes me want to lick his arse is, sorry. No, it's the fact that he is so masculine, yeah. He looks so and yeah, he's very gentle and vulnerable as well. He's just, he just ticks every ball. He's so annoying. beautiful. Yeah, just done it. And he's hot in an action scene too. Yeah, yeah, bastard. And they were like, we all aspire to be more like Rios. There were 6 of him last season or 5 or whatever. Oh, look at those fires burning on the hill. Yeah, and so here we actually get it, you know. And she says, this is like, I think this happens in her version of history as well. But then she says maybe the future we saw starts here. So it's not, do you know what I mean? It's not subtle. They do spell it out for us. The fire's burning on the hill. No, that's not a very subtle visual. It is making the point, you know? I like the new tricorders, how they are just sort of giant iPhones like with touch screens, like the ones in, in, uh, uh, prodigy are so great. Like instead of the stupid ones that they had in the 90s. You, um, you remember I said about this, like, you know, kind of not having an identity of it, sorry. seem to seem, though. It is very entertaining. Oh yeah, I think it's a good, you know, there's a, there's a lot of skill, you know, involved in the making of this. I don't want to say it's terrible because it's really fun to watch. Oh, I love this scene with the kids. Yeah, it's really good. isn't it? You know, I thought that there was going to be something to do with the technology that the badge had been dropped. Oh no, it is dropped at the end of this episode, isn't it? No, she takes it off him and stores it in the office so that he doesn't steal stuff. And he's taken out by the immigration police. And he's taken out by ice. They're both taken out by ice leaving the thing there. That's going to be relevant in the future. Yeah, yeah. Well, there's a big action sequence between 7 and Raffi rescuing him. Uh... Can I make something to you? Yeah. Can I make something to you whilst he is handing out peanut cookies to children? I just so happen to have some peanut cookies right here. Oh, my God. I was just thinking how gross that would be. Oh, they're lovely. I'll do anything for a peanut cookie. I actually thought he was really genuinely appreciating like peanut butter that hadn't been replicated. And then I realised he was just kind of trying to sell them to the kid. He's bastard. Rios. He's even amazing with kids. Yeah, yeah You know, he's a, you know, hell of a flirt as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Star Trek Rios. Here, there is a scene coming up and it's in, there's a line coming up in Spanish and I think she says to him, you better do your homework or there's no Rick and Morty. Oh, there it is. It was in the... You'd better finish your homework. There's no Rick and Morty. But, you know, that's a strange cultural reference because they stop making that now, haven't they? No, no, they're supposed to be in. Oh, they still make it. No, they're making it. And this is a couple of years in the future, right? Yeah. The version that I had before didn't have the Spanish subtitled but this version I'm currently watching does for some reason. Look at this pair. I mean, the kids that these 2 would create would be absolutely beautiful. Yeah, so there she's taking the badge out and putting it on the front desk. And I think the last shot of the episode is us seeing the badge left behind on the front door. Like, honest to God though, Nathan, think about this for a second. Go back one episode. We were so a completely different place. Like the ground that this season is coming. Yeah, is astonishing. Yeah. Yeah. I really like the Ball Queen's makeup. It's amazing. It is amazing. And because they haven't done the slimy thing, she looks fabulously imperious and she is so smart, she's so good. But when she's being amiable and smiley in those Instagram pictures in that makeup, it looks even scarier, I'm telling you. It's wonderful. I just love her to dance. She's so good. Do you think that Patrick Stewart said, let's call time after series 3? I think that they would have done it for as long as he was willing to... Because this must be a heavy shadow, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, like he's he's not the main character. Lots of he's sort of the main character, but he's not, you know he's just one of the characters in this episode. And, um, But I just kind of think, you know, I just imagine them kind of going, well, we have plans will do this, we'll do that. And then they discover that Patrick Stewart would be happy to do more Star Trek and they go, fuck it, let's make up a show and put him in it. And like whatever our plans are, they can wait because we have Patrick Stewart. And that's absolutely the right decision. Yeah, sure. For sure. I mean, he's not even our main anchors for the past. Yeah, but we've got to the past. Oh, Star Trek 7. Did you see what she said there? What is it you desire? Well, legs for a star. Yeah. Oh, she's funny. I don't think I don't think she was funny before. Like, God, do you remember the ball queen in Voyager? And they really dropped the ball on that. Well, they get out. She was just like a ranting villain, wasn't she? Yeah. But here she's smart as hell. So here's ice and he's a patient, isn't he? That's not her father, is it? He's a patient. Oh, I thought it was her dad. No, I'm just assuming that he's a patient. No, no, no, no, no. Maybe he is. I missed that, but I didn't assume that she was his father. I just assumed that he was a patient because we need a patient. We need more than one patient. So this is where this is where we drop about the watch are. So that's kind of like our anchor to the next episode now, isn't it? you know? And the next episode culminates in us finding the watcher. Uh, Yeah. I think. Why are you, what, what's your complaints going forward, Ben? I think there's one plot which involves the actor who played Soji last season. And I just wonder whether it's one too many things. And I'm... Is it just to include her? No, there's someone else involved. I don't want to spoil it for you too much. Okay, yeah. Okay, so everyone else knows who else is in that. thread. And I've heard about episode 8 that it's a bit like episode seven. But I thought episode 6 was very strong. I thought 5 was strong. I thought 4 was great. Like, I've been on board with this, but it is getting a bit, I it's starting to spin its wheels at the end, I think. And what kind of one of my disappointments with this season is that that 1st episode. Look at her winning. Look at, so here is, here is Agnes saying, so what's the information you have? I'm taking it from your brain and I've locked it in a box. But no, but the funny line is when she tells the computer to bring up the contents of the file shit ice stole from the... It's so great. And you know what? That's a justified swear. Oh, I love swimming in modern Star Trek. It makes people seem more real. And I just think it should happen. And, you know, you can just see those geeks there getting fused. Everyone has such massive sticks up their arse in Star Trek the next generation. Like, no one's particularly cheap. I love it. What are you talking about? I love it. But the fact that people speak more normally, more like actual people is what we want. I don't want space people speech. I want people talking the way that they talk. I mean, we still got to get space people speech is, oh, this line too. You've impressed me that the most dangerous thing you can do. Not you stole for me, not you, you know, opposed me, but you impressed me. I'm intrigued about you now and I'm going to find out more. Yeah, but also... Oh, and look at her there, look, just hanging. I know, it's like a spider. Sorry, just going back to what I was saying. another complaint I have is that that 1st episode, it presented such an enjoyable depiction of the future they've created, that to have an entire season set in the past. I'm just hoping in series 3 that we're just really gonna explore that future. Yeah. I think, look, I think that we have, I think that we have the, what we have is the, the, 2 presents, 2 25th century presence, the 1st one, then the 2nd one, which is the confederation, and then the rest of it is about determining which of those happens. And so that's why we have a fun hangout episode in episode one. Then we have the fascists in episode 2 and now it's, we, we, are we going to end up with episode one or two? I actually think they've taken one of my previous complaints about Picard and done it seriously well in season 2 and that is, um, you know, all the kisses to the past, because I thought the one scene with Guy and the way they've used Q, but made it a bit different and a bit more exciting. Um, the things they're doing with seven. I think they're taking, there's enough fan service there, but they're doing lots of original things as well. I mean, they're doing a time travel episode. And they're doing... Yeah, Futures End or Star Trek, Voyage Home 4. See, there's the badge on the on the table there. It's a very quick ending, isn't it? very abrupt ending. I love the fact that the cliffhanger isn't space peril. It's real peril that people who look like Chris experience in America every day. And I think that's really, really properly good. And you know how series one, you know, all of Kurtzman Trek is post-Trump or, you know, Trump, then post-Trump Trek, right? And I think that this is much, much, like it's less subtle, um, and much, much more centred on the politics, whereas we saw when we did Children of Mars and then talked about what happens in Picard series one, where that tragedy, instead of bringing people together, which it does in Children of Mars, turns the Federation against its ideals. It becomes isolationist. It stops caring. And of course, we've got an earth, like that, in discovery at the moment, too, after the burn. And so, here, I think, is the most obvious kind of post-trump politics. Yeah, that's what I'm enjoying. Remember, we've been talking before about how, you know, incredibly subtle Kurtzman Trek can be compared to the cartoon that Voyager is. Well, that 2nd episode of Picard was a massive cartoon. It was great. Bloody marvellous. So enjoyable. This is it. This is Star Trek. Yes. Yeah, yeah. And Picardo's the dictator. was amazing. wonderful. Well, that scene, when they went into the, um, and there was all the, the skull of gold to cut and Marto and Sarik. No, I was like, well, there ain't nothing settle happening here but... And now we know that Ferengi have bones in their ears. It's cannon. Yeah. Was it Rana Gazek? I don't know, actually. I don't think named him. We didn't We should freeze frame it. HD version. All I will say, though, is that a lot of the reservations I had with the 1st season of Picard, that it was too nasty, that it did unpleasant things to really characters that you really quite liked. I think they've redressed a lot of that in series 2. Except they killed Elanor in this episode. and I'll be back. Yeah, I hope. I'm sorry. You'll see. I'll continue, I told you so. And I think they looked at that season and said, what did we get right? What did we get wrong? And, you know, as you say. Series 2, episode one. Like, right, well, we'll retool it slightly. Yeah. and we'll fly and I think they are flying. Yeah, I do too. I'm excited to see how this ends, but I think it may end on the day that this episode that we're now recording is released if I've done the maths correctly. Well, maybe I'll buck the trend then and catch up. Do it. We'll see. Stop being so fucking contrary. All right, so it's time for us to choose our next episode and it's my turn. It's time for you to choose the next episode. I'm not invested at all because I don't express the mountain this time. All set the rules. Okay. Well, I am here on untitled Star Trek project.com slash randomiser and I have chosen 2 series to choose from. And it is because we're having so much fun today watching Star Trek Picard that I have chosen the 2 other mostly live action Star Trek series in the current iteration of Star Trek and that is Discovery and Short Trek. Okay. What do you think? Yeah, I'm there for it. I don't think I don't think we've talked half enough about discovery that we need to. Yeah, yeah. Okay. All right. Let's uh... Because the season of discovery is so different. Yeah, yeah, quite. It a different talking point wherever you fall, you know? All right, so Star Trek discovery and short treks. You know, though, I won't know what any of these episodes are. All right. So I think this is this is magic to make the sanest man go mad series one episode seven. It's kind of not what I wanted. I was secretly hoping for something from series 2, given that we have Anson Mountain, Ethan Peck and Rebecca Romayne, in that. I was hoping it was going to be something from series 4 because I've not seen any of that. It's been really good. I really, really like season four. they really got it right. But I have a big, big sentimental attachment to series one, as I've said before, not that many people like it, but I am wholeheartedly in favour of it. And I think that this is everyone's favourite episode, isn't it? It's the Harry Mudd time loop episode. Hang on a 2nd though. Hang on, because we did the best episode potentially of Picard series one. And now we're doing the best episode potentially of Discovery Series one. Well, we've got to do a shit one eventually. We do, yeah. But, uh, uh, you know, the randomiser, I'm afraid uh, it's by the roundabise speaks. Okay. Well, let's go full on Harry Martin. I think there's some fabulous Tilly in this episode as well. It's a really, really good episode. I've seen to remember visually this one really stuck out as well. Is this the one with the party? Yeah, yeah. And I think the party is amazingly good. It's great. And it's got stuff about ash, like ash and and Michael's relationship. It does interesting things. Like Paul's character is in a very strange place at that point in the series as well. So I think it's a really good one. Okay, wow, let's do it. You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley. You can find us online at Untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel. Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lann. This episode was recorded on the 26th of April 2022 and released on the 13th of May. We'll see you next time for Star Trek Discovery, magic to make the sanest man go mad.