The Time Trap

Hey, Joe. Hi. It's another first for us. today on Untitled Star Trek project. Why is that? Because today, Nathan, we are covering the spectacular triumph of the Star Trek franchise? I've always known as Star Trek, the animated series. Yeah. It's our 6 month anniversary, as the kids say. And we thought we'd celebrate by branching out and doing a whole new series. Do you realise something? Do you realise that we've only got one new place to go now? Yeah, we got to do a film. Oh no, no way. Pre soon we'll have to. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Probably by the time this is out, actually, this episode, we'll have strange new movies. Trader looks amazing, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, it looks incredible. Which brings us to the animated series. How did you find it? Does it also look incredible? No. In fact, it reminded me a bit of Star Trek, the Next Generation and how it was directed in air quotes. It's a bit sedate and it's an animation, isn't it? When you compare it, and obviously lower decks is in the future and animation techniques have progressed a lot. However, I think this is, given that it is animation and they can do whatever they want to do. This is more stately than the live action Star Trek of the 1960s. Yeah, it's funny, isn't it? I mean, because it's serious, they have to make the people look kind of like people and they sort of manage that, but it means that they've got a very limited range of facial expressions, they all look very similar to one another. It is bloody serious, isn't it? It wasn't a lot of laughs, you know? No, there wasn't a lot of personality coming out in the voices. Again, skip forward to lower decks where they are actually giving like, you know, proper vocal performances, aren't they? I kind of felt like they dragged the original series in, in fact, I learn in my fabulous fact sheet here that I crypt off YouTube, that Shatner was recording some of his scenes for this. Like in breaks in a theatre show he was doing at the theatre. just into a microphone. Like in the bath or, you know, like, it's like, you know, so he's phoning it in. Yeah, make a martini for me. I just got to go do these lines for the elevator series. I'll be back. Yeah. Yeah. There isn't really a lot of fun to be had in the performances and the thing is very po-faced and very basic, I think. I think I think what um... someone like Rossi Davis learned, Far Ledger, in England, when he was doing the Sarah Jane Adventures for Doctor Who, which is kind of like the child friendly version of Doctor Who, is that if it's funny, it's very likeable. It's very approachable and you want to go on that journey. This is not funny. It's basically all of the original series without the jokes. Yeah, yeah. I mean, the original series is not po-faced like this. No, not at all. Even the most recent episode that we did. Yeah, they did with Kirk, going, get me out of here. Come on. Like with a charming, funny, clever performance. And it wasn't complicated, but this is, I think, much less complicated than it needs to be. it's very basic Well, Dorothy Fontana is quoted as saying that they were told it couldn't be too cerebral. And the episodes had to come in at about 20 pages. So it had to be short and snappy and simple. Yeah. Well, I think they succeeded with that, you know. Yeah, yeah. But I don't know. All I can imagine is just the kind of crushing disappointment that you would have felt after hearing there was new Star Trek after it's disastrously premature cancellation in 1967. And then you're back here in 1973, mere 4 years later thinking, ooh new Star Trek. And right from the moment you hear that music, you know that it's going to be lounge music. What the hell is that all about? I think that the beginning of it is referenced in the lower decks theme. I think the opening tons, as I've been doing research, as is my wont, there's loads of TAS references across Star Trek now, but do you know what's interesting is nobody referenced it until after Gene Rogenbury died. And that's because he declared that this wasn't Canon. Canon. So what, well, yeah, I know how you feel about Kenneth, but Gene Roddenbury is obviously, you know, the great god of the Star Trek universe. And if he says that TAS is not Canon, then, you know, there's a huge contingent of Star Trek fans, they can listen to him. And so after he died, I think the 1st proper reference to TAS was a unification, which references yesteryear, which is the 2nd TAS episode, which is about Spock and his childhood. And then the Star Trek movie with Chris Pine, there's scenes of Spock being bullied by a load of kids, well, those scenes play out in the TAS episode yesterday. So that's a direct reference to that, and then you know with Kurtzman, they've got the characters, the BEM character, and Umres the Catwoman is one of her species is one of the regulars. Yeah, yeah. And Arax, uh, the, who's an Alosian or something stupid there is an Arax, uh, an Alosian in one of the lower decks episodes. And Spock 2. We see his skeleton in... So they've obviously embraced it and of course they should. I mean, canon. Absolutely they should. Yeah, and if they can take, if they can take elements of this series that could have been a lot of fun, but wasn't, and make them a lot of fun, like that fabulous character that was segmented in that episode of Lower Decks that we watched. I mean, that was really fun, wasn't it? Her head in her body was all flowing about the place. From an episode that is actually really boring. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. There are some fun moments actually to be had with Bam. He does do some hilarious things because he can detach bits of his body and that is kind of funny, but it's a pretty crappy episode as well. Can I very quickly just tell you how this came to be, the animated series. So, well, obviously Star Trek was cancelled because they were churning out episodes like Spock's brain. No, actually, I think they were churning out episodes like Spot's Brain because they knew they weren't wanted anymore and nobody was really trying. But anyway, it went to the dogs. Turn about and True does where we departed TOS. And then it was syndicated and then NBC realised they had hot property on their hands and there was a massive market for Star Trek and they had this huge fan base. And so there was a cry to make the series again. So they genuinely approached Jim Rodney Ritter. going to make the TV show again. Like, this is really popular and he's like, well, duh. You know? It's not the 1st studio to make a bad call, is it? But what happened was all the sets had been destroyed and all the props. So if that hadn't have happened, they would have made a full season of the original series, but it was just too costly for them to basically start from scratch. So some time past, so they were trying to think about all these different ways to create Star Trek again. And then the idea for animation came up. In the mid 70s, this came out, didn't it? like 74, I think. I think this episode was screened in 1973 sometime. And they went to Filmation, they're called, who were like the big animation company of the time that were making like all the Saturday morning animations that you watched, but notorious and popular for making it on the cheap. Yes. So, uh, their notoriety came from the fact that they reused footage. And you could see that. In this episode, I saw that same high angle shot on the bridge about 8 hours again. And so, yeah, that's how this came to be. Jean Robin Brew said, let's go for it. Later on, he kind of disassociated himself from it and DC Fontana basically took creative control of this thing and she considers it to be the 4th season of the original series and he basically said well, it was a bit of a joke. Let's forget that ever existed and we'll go on and do phase two. But one thing, are you ready for this? One thing that's really interesting is they never contacted Michelle Nichols and Walter Canig to be a part of this and Leonard Nimoy, the more I learn about Leonard Nimoy, the more I love him refuse to be a part of it unless they were. Wow. And he said this show was supposed to be about diversity. and inclusion. And I will not be a part of this. And they knew, they couldn't do this without me. like, you know Spock's the most popular character. And so what happens was Nichols was brought in. Chekhov wasn't, and he was replaced by Lieutenant, is it Eric? Axe, yeah. and Lieutenant M. Res, but he was brought in to write an episode and he wrote an episode in the 2nd season. So he was included as well. And just the one other interesting rule, I thought it was quite interesting, in fact, is that there was a writer's strike whilst TOS was TAS was being produced and the prestigious writers of the original series weren't like, there were specific rules. They weren't allowed to write for TV if they were being involved in this strike, but they could write animated stuff, which is why they managed to get in like David Gerald, DC Fontana, and all of these, you know, popular writers like to write this kiddie animated show for Star Trek. So what's astonishing name really, is it ain't better than it actually is? So this is, you said that when you were looking this one up and this is the time trap, that it is in people's kind of top 5 lists. Wow. So what was David Gerald doing? He was sort of dictating, again, from the bath or something like that, because this is not good. No, it's not. Do you know what? I did enjoy it more the 2nd time around, though, because I was less shocked by the quality of the animation, local performances and all that. I kind of I kind of betted in my mind that it actually looked and sounded pretty shit. Some of those voice performances, honestly. Hello, Captain Car. Very strange. And I just enjoyed like the concept and things like that. And I think some of the ideas here have actually got legs and probably could have been a live action episode. We'll go into that. Maybe that's true. But, um, a couple more bits, right? will skip into this thing. Did you know the 1st holodeck appeared in the animated series. Oh, really? In the episode called The Practical Joker, and it was known as the Rec Room. But essentially it had the same function as the holodeck from the next generation. Wow. you go. And that was in there. and that had nothing to do with, nothing to do with Gene Roddenbury as well. And this is the better fact, though. In the, I think it's the Lorelei signal, uh, which there's an episode about a load of evil women, you know, that's how to want to do back then, um, there's a rare moment where a female takes command of a starship, and that's Ahura. There's the 1st time that happens. Yeah. Because it wasn't allowed in the original series that the premise of the final episode turnabout intruder. is that we can't have ladies starship captains. But it did happen in the unaired pilot with number one. She too. But obviously it was an unaired pilot. So officially, it's not Canada. Never happened. And my very my very last fact before we jump in is, and this is quite exciting, is, I mean, it would have been terrible. Had the 2nd series, had an entire series. The finale of that, which is supposed to see out TAS, was going to be the end of the five-year mission. Oh, okay. And that might have been quite interesting to see. And that's a shame that never happened. Oh, well. not that heartbroken. Look, we got to get for all of these at some point, all right? No, we don't. I'll be dead before then All right. Okay. So I will count us in in that case. Okay, let's do it. Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off. Do you know that this music for the animated series was done by 2 kind of prestigious musicians. I think I turned out so bad. bit crappy, isn't it? It's terrible. I like the bit, so we're going straight into the opening credits. We don't get a teaser, we just have the opening credits, and it's trying, it's best to ape, the original, and it's a reasonable job. Why would you even, you're an animation. You could make this as slick as you want. Well, no, you can't. I mean, look at there's a bit... The way the ship just glides across the screen in a straight line. It does actually turn at one point, but obviously that requires them to draw, you know, like different angles of the ship over and over again, and it's actually quite an expensive process. And so they manage it once. Oh, no, that's one. There's one that flew overhead. But it looks shitty because there are no computers and they can't. I could just like, I could just imagine someone with holding the ship on a stick and just sit going across... Well, that's the original. That's the original title. Okay, see this here we go. Stardate 52.2 So they've forgotten how stardates work. That's a very small number for a start date. don't know. It's normally in the thousands. Are we in the year 52 now then? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I have no idea what this is. So this is the Bermuda Triangle, which was a bit essential. Yeah, isn't it? Like the, it was a big deal back then. I remember the... It's an unknown region of space where ships are going missing. It's triangular, though. absolutely a triangle. My ears did prick up when I heard the word delta, though, you know I was like, my God, this isn't the 1st reference of the Delta Quadrant, is it? No, it's another universe, isn't it? Yeah, or something. They call it a pocket universe, which I think is kind of cool, and they have a rather poetic way of referring to it. So here instead of Chekhov, we have Arax, who says absolutely fuck all in this episode and barely moves. Is he speaking? I don't think he ever talks or moves. Really? But they didn't want to animate it properly. So he just sits at the console. That's all he ever does. Really? I thought Jimmy Dewan did his voice or something. I was convinced that he was a real character. I'm not sure. I got it in me to watch through the entire run to find out if I want to. So he has an arm coming out of his chest in the middle of his chest, so he's got 3 arms. Massive elongated neck. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's quite, that's one thing they could have done, a lot more of in this, isn't it? have weird aliens on the bridge and walk in the corridors and things. Yeah, well, in fact, even lower decks has weirder aliens than current live action, Star Trek. You know, it's got that bird, who's the counsellor, and it's obviously got Dr. Tana, who is superb. Well, look at prodigy as well, with fabulous gelatinous murf, you know? and that floating eyeball and that. There's a teller I in this episode, actually. Oh, yeah, I noticed that. And gone. Isn't there a go? There's a corn. Yeah, yeah. All gets to that bit. In fact, George Decay is quoted as saying that he thought the animator was a massive disappointment because they did have the opportunity to visit these, you know, vast alien vistas and things like this. I said, and we ended up just aping the series. And what's the point of that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's cheap as fuck. I mean it's really shockingly bad, isn't it? Like, and it was super extreme close-up. It was actually super expensive to make because of paying the actors. So even though... Now look at this. This is a Klingon, right, on the viewscreen. isn't that cool? Yeah, but he gets called Kiri in the 1st scene and then his call. Commander Curry of the Klingon Imperial fleet. But then after that, oh, no, because it's called the one that's inside just vanished. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is Curry. Commander Curry, the gay Klingon, who is threatening them now. And then we get core, is core played by... He is John Collios. Yeah. The same actor. Yeah, yeah. And that's one thing. you know what? I will credit TS for that, definitely, in that when they bring back characters like Harry Mard and things like that. They get them playing them. Wow. So they may not have attention to detail anywhere else, but things that appeared in the original series. They're all like shit. brilliant. See, that's a fair shot of the enterprise. But that does just feel like a piece of model work from the original series. No, but you see that they have to draw it from each angle, which is why it looks slightly odd as it turns around. And they can't quite do it frame like a lot of frames. It's very kind of juddery, isn't it? Yeah. Well, you would do that with a computer now and it was much harder to do in the 70s, I guess. Even the 80s I think. Why are they animating all these scenes with these massive close ups? Like, it's the most dramatic dialogue ever because, bam, we're suddenly straight in everyone's face. Well, I think that they, you know, they're just sticking the character against a background. And look, all the controls are going out of out of whack or something, but they all fucking look like they always do. It's just a bunch of flashing lights. I just remember Ahura having such triangular boobs as she had in that scene there. you know, they've not done a lot. look. Yeah, they look like Shila Madonna. They're perky, aren't they? They're geometric is what they are. I think the reason why people like this episode is because it's a mystery soul. It's a bit of a puzzle and it brings in these 2 tenets of the show the enterprise and the Klingons, and they have to work together and you know the Klingons are going to portray them. And do you know what I mean? There's like, it's, it's not complicated, but it's playing about with popular elements of the original series. Yeah, I think that's true. Oh my god. Wait, can I just say that on that screen there? Doesn't that, that, see, Sargasso Sea of ships look just like the space cullenders from that end of season, Blake 7 episode? They're even the same colour. You know, they design them on that, you know. I actually think that it reminded me a little bit of Federation headquarters in Discovery Series 3 and 4 where you have all of those utterly weird looking ships where you don't even really know what you're looking at or why they're shaped the way they are. I kind of like that. Those ships look like a bunch of kitchen appliances. Well, yeah, no, they look terrible, but unlike Discovery. But like I kind of appreciate the idea. I thought, um, I thought one vocal performance actually had a bit of warmth and character to it. Can you guess who that is? Jimmy doing. No. No, Tulu. Nope. Oh, okay. Defores Kelly. Oh, really? Yeah, he's a couple of lions that he had. He's trying to inject a bit of character in. Leonard Nemoy literally sounds like a robot in this. Yeah, no, he can't be asked. And Shadow is clearly, clearly just rattling off these lines without any kind of warmth at all. Oh, now he's the original starship that has warp drive, the Bonaventure, which is absolutely, so this isn't Canon. Excuse me, I never, ever thought I would hear you say those words. Well, anyway. It's contradicted by later episodes, as we know. So what occurred here? What forces them into this strange region of space? It's a Bermuda triangle. That's what they do. They just suck up ships for no reason. didn't realise you were an expert in these things, you know. But see, the representatives of the council of the Delta, whatever it's called, they're like, well, you know, we came here and we all try to escape, and then we all sort of... Well, then when they get out of this at the end, it's really fucking easy. And I'm like, well, you could have tried that hard, could you? You basically just reversed, you know? No, but they thought of joining 2 ships together. No one else had thought of that. Oh, God, that's true. Kirk Spanish. Okay. Yeah. Dramatic close up on Spock's face. And Spock, who seems completely unperturbed. You know what? Slight movie of the eyebrows. I don't know why they're doing all these close-up. They ain't got animate nothing else. Have they? already got the face. Yeah, yeah, just put the face up to the camera. Look, the camera. Sorry, I'm talking about it. like it's actually being directed. No, no, it's cheap. They're not having to put any detail around them. No, no, they just put a backdrop. When you watch BEM or BEM. Was it the same in that as well? Pretty much, but they did go outside. Like they they went down to a planet and some things happened. Oh, this Orion woman, so we're now in voice. Well, it's not a voice. the rest of the commentary sounded like a... No, no, no, no. Mira or whatever her name is, the weird one who... Look, so there's a cat. It's not cat with butt is. I don't know, but there's an Andorian there. There's some insect. Look, this lady has no nose. She's a lady with no nose. Why did she have no nose? Who is that green thing? I don't know. I don't know. There's a Tellrite there. And then there's another lady... You see that woman there? She's got the same triangular boomers. They've used the same boobs. So, so, but there's this sort of sere woman who has the stupid vocal performance and then there's this Orion lady who must be freezing to death like she's there at the council in a bikini. It's super upsetting. They've got fabulous central heating. Just don't mention it. No, because she's an Orion, aren't they? They're always... Tandy doesn't wear... Yeah, we're not in the 70s anymore. That's why. Emancipated times have hits. Yeah, maybe that's it. There was a recent... Oh my god, you were right. Look how stupid the Tellerrite looks. They've got it right in prodigy. Even in discovery they look shit. Okay, let's just step back from how really terrible this looks. Because even like this council, it could have been all on different levels and people flying about and all of that. No, it's just a load of people sitting around the table that we're going to pan across very, very laboriously. But we have more aliens than we could have afforded. Yeah. And it's all these different aliens from the original series kind of altogether. That's kind of fun, right? Yeah. Yeah. In fact, there is something and it did sort of jog a weird memory and maybe I dreamed it or something, but the idea where you have a group of people from different antagonistic races who are kind of thrown together. Maybe it's a little bit like... There's a next generation one. Isn't there where Picard is there's a fake Picard put on the Enterprise? And then he's thrown in. There's a Nausicon. And he is a Nausicon, but he looks like a Nausicon. The dreadful twist is, is that the nice looking guy is the evil one and the evil is the guy is the nice one. a bit. I thought it was a Bolian lady who was the villain. Anyway, it was all bullshit. But something like that. You know, like the idea that these people who are all enemies. It would have been more effective if there'd been Klingons there. Oh, Margan. Here's your stupid film. Nathan, I think if you was going to be in TAS, you would play Morgan, you know? Yes, I can see them. Oh, God. so bizarre. You've got to wonder this woman's doing this vocal performance into our microphone. She must be thinking now if my career comes to this, honestly. Yeah. Yeah. No, maybe she was a big Star Trek fan. She was super excited. nice though, you know. They've got a few more women involved in this, haven't they? than you'd get in your average TOS episode. That's true I love how this, the chief guy who's a Vulcan is called Sirius with an X. And so I keep, you know, you cannot be Zarius. are you are you serious? You know, like it just seems like it's very stupid. How he's playing the... Oh, man. Yeah, it's really, really, like, there's no subtlety in the performances, is that? And I don't think they're supposed to be. This is supposed to be for young kids, isn't it? Like young, young kids. So can I like make an unfair comparison and compare this to Star Trek Prodigy? Yeah, because, well, Star Trek Prodigy is aimed at children and obviously a lot more money and effort and care is going into it than is going into this. Obviously. Well, obviously. And obviously, you know, the technology is, um, what, you know, 50 years uh, better. But there is a complexity and just the writing is streets ahead just streets ahead. And the expectations. I don't think there's any characterisation at all, weirdness. Whereas the characterisation in prodigy is brilliant, you know. But I mean, the characterisation in original Star Trek is very good. Yeah, but it's okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was also what we were talking about last time we did a Star Trek, the Next Generation episode where we talked about people being their jobs, and that is a feature of original Trek. And Trek doesn't do characterisation so much as just have some really good performers in very well-defined roles. I think it does strong characterisation amongst a trio, like the main trio. That's where all the characterisation is. And then you get peppered bits of characterisation with the rest of them, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we've decided to join the ships together because we think that's going to work and no one else has had that idea before. I know these are supposed to be, you know, these smart representatives of these various races. You think they all come with different ideas and be like, well we'll try this. No, obviously join our ships together. But I think you only have a window as well because the dilithium starts to decay and so there is some line about it. They can only do it immediately after they arrive because they're fuel disintegrates or something. This moment here wears spots like, oh, you lovely gentleman. Oh, what a marvellous idea. And they're like, Spock, what's wrong with you? he's like, I'm so sorry, I was overcome in the moment. It's such a funny line. It is a really funny line. I thought he was hitting on them at... Well, it reminds me of about that scene between Garrick and Bashir you know, where his hand goes in his shoulder. He refers to, he refers to one of them as a young man. Take this young man down and, you know, showing a good time. Klingon there with his hands on his hips like he's about to go into Panto. One of those Klingons. It's called Kaz. And I had a friend called Karen that we all called Kaz. Yeah, that's all I like, dude. I think he's Karen or Caroline. I couldn't work out a witch. Like Clearo Commander is just trying to be like the hip manager isn't it? That's poor, by the way. We're finding enjoyment in this where we can. Yeah, but when cool comes back, right? And now it's now it's start 85276 point something. So I think the 1st time when it was Stardate 5, 2.2. Yeah, it was just Shatner not giving a shit or like leaving some numbers out. Yeah, he's just looking around looking around the theatre. Oh, there's 52 up there. We'll say that. I really wanted to put 52.2 as the stardate for this episode on the website, but no, I've got to, you know, do the right thing. If it's 5,2,7, 6, 8. I really care. Is that a wonderful line? Look at this. all the ships there in the space. It's awesome. It's so weird because there's no like there's no nuance in the face animation, is there? So like, so like, it's like when you see those Doctor Who animations they're bringing out now and you've got like Patrick Troughton's face looking like it's made out of clay and all this moving is the mouth, you know? So you lose all the subtleties of the performance. Now don't get me wrong. I don't think there's any subtleties in the voice performances either. No, no, they're just not bothering. They are really phoning it in. Do you remember like when we were watching the court might maneuver and you were saying about how, like, relaxed and charming Shatner could be, just how it carries himself and things like that? You're not going to get any of that here, are you? You know? It's a shame. In the doomsday machine. That superb line reading at the end, which I just absolutely adored. And, you know, there's no scope for that here because there's no facial expressions. No scope for charm. That's No, that's it, isn't it? Oh yeah. I mean, maybe there are fun ones. I do know there are kind of weird oddball ones that are a little bit more fantastic and stuff, which is what original Star Trek does. It's not all just, this is kind of space things, but there must be oddball things that are a bit more fun. Can I make an unfair comparison as well, as you did as well? Because do you know what, right? This is incredibly serious. And uh, stately and a space problem. At times, this reminded me of some of the worst episodes of the next generation. episodes like force of nature, you know, and things like that where they're just standing around talking technobabble in a very serious way. Yeah, I think they get their inspiration from the animated series you know? They could, they could well be. Instead, they should have been looking at the original series. Lady Klingon. That's Carl. Callie, Carly? Carly. Yeah. Carly. Carly and Kaz. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I did like this though. You know, nefarist bastards planting their bomb on the Enterprise. Put some clothes on, deer. Honestly, it's a formal occasion. I just, I'm upset. in touch with her sexuality, Nathan, all right? you think? She's very, oh, yeah, she does. Look how beautiful body she's got. I'll be showing it off. She does, mate. That's funny. Her hair doesn't seem to move at all, but you know. No, she's using a lot of spray, you know? It's the 60s. They put to animating a poplar behind them. Well, they haven't animated it. They just drew it in the background. It's not doing anything. This is sophisticated culture. They've got a black. And also goes with her skin as well. Is that racist? Shame said that maybe that's racist. Oh, wow, you know. You don't want to edit this thing. Don't worry. Oh yeah, this is you can count on McCoy, right? He starts to fight. Oh, is this all planned? Are they planning this fight? No, no, no, no. They're stupid. They're fighting over a lady because they're stupid. Because they're Klingons, right? And I can't help but notice how well muscled Kirk and McCoy are in their uniform was in the animated series. And that wasn't really the case in the original series, was it? Do you think they got to sign off on the character models? Can you just beef me up a bit, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whereas what you normally have. What's that teddy bear? Did you say that teddy bear? Yeah, yeah, it's like a teddy bear. No, the teddy bear is just the cat with bat wing ears. Is it? Al is it? Oh, yeah, it looks very different from above, you know. But you know what? We've seen that shop from above about 50 times already. And they don't have to animate it. They're all just sitting there completely. See, look that 2 shot. Again, it's the close-ups on the face so we don't have to, like all we need to do is animate its jaw here. And yet, do you know what? In the YouTube video I was watching, you know, exciting facts about the animated series, there was some like fun alien vistas I saw, there was some intriguing looking alien creatures. So I think even if they're making it on the cheap, every now and again, they, you know, they let their imaginations fly. Yeah. We're just not seeing it in this one. No. It's very strange how they're standing on the table on that council too. They're all sat around a table and the Klingons and and Kirk has stood on the table. This annoys me as well, right? tedious analogue technology that they've got. This is animated, for God's sakes. You can have fabulous projections. Look at what they do in prodigy with all the amazing screams about. But they've never thought of that. The trouble is they haven't thought of it. But you could do more than having something ticking down 10 to one you know? That's better than the show managed, I think. Doctor Who in the 60s was doing more imaginative technology than this. Don't tell me there isn't the creativity there to do it. It's just them aping the original series and just doing, oh, let's just copy that and do the same thing. Yeah, well that's all right. Oh, God. Is there any tension here? Do you think they'll get to the bomb in time? It's speed, isn't it? When we hit warp 8. It will explode. This was the one that I really liked, where you add, no, it run in a spot running down the corridor. And then the eject button, there's just a handy thing where you can eject things into space. What is that on the original series? That ejects. I don't know. We'll come in very anti, you know. Yeah, if you blow your nose, you just sort of eject the thing into space. trials and tribulations, but now that triple, it'll turn out to be a bomb. That would have been very handy to have had an eject button there wouldn't it? Well, they beam it out, don't they? Like an explosion. But you know what shocked me more than anything was, you know, like okay, we've got out of this by doing something not so clever. And then kind of just goes. And that's why we did it, and there's a Starscape, and it's the end. Yeah, I didn't even understand that. That's what matters. wrap up. No, nothing. It wasn't even like, I'll get you next time, Kirk. It just ended. Like, there is sort of a thing where they have the choice between living in an idyllic society with a sexy Orion slave girl in her pants or going back to their stupid time with Klingons and fighting and stuff and they decide that's better. And it's super weird. So they're given a choice between sort of a utopia and the real world. I honestly don't think we're going into, you know, the subtle depths of characterisation of that choice, you know. It's just like, basically, you can even choose to stay here or go well, we're going. Goodbye. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's it. There's no particular investigation of that choice. But it is there. I mean, it is a sort of thing, I guess. Nathan, obviously something now. Oh, yeah, no. Amazing, how's the best part of the episode? I'm going to tell you something now. stun you rigid. You loved it. I didn't think that was very good. No, it's shit. We'll have to do another one, though. I can't wait till the next one rolls around because if that's a good one, I can't wait to see a really bad one. Well, a really bad one might be fun. I think that perhaps this is too po faced. And certainly, the people who make lower decks. have clearly derived some enjoyment and there must be a long history that we have somehow avoided of people watching this and making fun of it which is a thing that we do even with properly good episodes of Star Trek. So there has to be something. Kurtzman's made the choice, hasn't he? or whoever is, you know, creatively in control of those series to have the animated series as a part of the Star Trek franchise. They're not, they're not going down the Roddenberry route of saying this didn't happen. It's all meshed up with all the other Star Trek, but they're, you know, blowing kisses too, Next Generation, DS9 Voyager Enterprise. My favourite one is they actually refer to Spock and Kirk in an episode of series one of Lower Decks, and we see a picture of them on a pad and the pictures of them from the animated series. Like it is just, yeah, yeah. So like, and of course, because Canon isn't real. I don't want to, you know, like I'm probably going to shock a lot of Star Trek fans because Star Trek Canon is so important in a way that it's not important in Doctor Who. You know, Canon isn't a bright dividing line between things that really happened and things that didn't happen. Because spoiler alert, none of it happened. It's all made up. But what canon is, is what can you make reference to? And you can make reference to anything in Star Trek that people have memories of or enjoy or there's been decades of making jokes about it? And remember that shitty low effort Star Trek helmet that was the worst piece of Star Trek merchandise ever because it didn't resemble anything? Like it's from the 60s. It's like a helmet, it's got lights. It's the most disappointing Christmas gift ever imaginable. And Mariner has one stashed in the walls of the Cerritos and so it's now cannon because it's a thing that Star Trek fans have a folk memory of. And so anything that we remember, any jokes that we've been making for decades are all canon. Well, can I tell you something, right? as we duck out of this? and I'm not ripping the shit out of this person because people approach programs in different ways for me and that's absolutely fair. But I was listening to a podcast the other day, a Star Trek one. And it was about the Voyager episode, Living Witness, you know, the one where the doctor in the future and they've misremembered the Voyager crew has this bunch of villains and and it is a phenomenal. This intelligent podcaster, was there going, well, I really don't like this episode. I mean, you know, that's not how the Voyager crew was at all. And I'm like, that's the fucking point. That's the point of the episode, we're gone. And they're literally like their brain cannot understand. Like, this is the whole thing about, you know, like memory alpha and plotting everything in place and that's how it is, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it just couldn't comprehend how a society could misremember the adventures of Star Trek Voyager. And I was like, wow, that is that is canon there, right there. Yeah, yeah. You know? It's a big problem for Star Trek. And I think that one of the refreshing things about new Star Trek is that it doesn't quite take that same path. And it remembers Star Trek as a series of stories, a series of TV shows that we can make reference to and riff on and play with, and that's exactly the right approach. And I agree, and I think that is, I mean, I've said it, I think it's been done quite a lot, but to look back and cherry pick, like the best of the past and play about with those toys in the present. Well, that's just wonderful. Okay, it's time for us to choose our next episode, and so Joe is on untitled Star Trek project.com slash randomiser, and you're about to tell us which series we're choosing from, Joe. You know one of these days, I'm going to shock everybody and I'll be the one to say, okay, we're on on Toto. That's my job. Why break the formula? So I want us to head back into Kersman Trek, because I think it's been about 7 episodes now since we last touched upon it. And I know there's a lot less of it, but I think jumping about all the different time periods of Star Trek keeps this thing fresh. So let's have a little look and see what we're going to get today. Your Star Trek prodigy episode is Dreamcatcher, season one, episode four. Yeah, I don't know what that's all about. Do you? Yeah, so we have done episode three, I think. So episodes one and 2 are the pilot, and then we did episode three which was the 1st regular episode. And so Dreamcatcher is them kind of landing on their 1st alien planet. Oh. I'm going to press off that show. Okay, here we go. Your Star Trek Picard episode is Season 2, Episode 3 Assimilation. Oh, what do you reckon? That's quite recent. Well, that's very, very recent, and it gives us a chance to talk about the 2nd season of Picard, doesn't it? Yeah. All right. I'm up for that. So I think that's so the 1st episode you have, I know, a very, very strong 1st episode, Guine and Q, kind of, it feels very TNG, but with a big budget and, you know, good actors. Then the 2nd episode is we're into Nazi parallel world. Seven of Niners as president and all of fabulous. Absolute. That episode was amazing. And this is the 3rd episode where we're heading into the present. That's right. So we're heading to 2024, which is where the divergence apparently happens. So they're going back in time to prevent the evil future that they've seen already from happening. And so this is our 1st episode there. Do you know what? I've got a question then to out this is this is very, very new Star Trek. Where do we stand on spoilers? Anything that's been broadcast is fair game, I think. Yeah, that's what happens in this episode. I remember. Somebody dies in this episode. Okay, well, maybe. Yeah. I can see Brandon Braga in the... Watching the reset button. Yeah, please. We brought it back for the finale. none of it ever happened. Well, it's a Q episode after all. You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley. You can find us online at untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel. Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Siseran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb. This episode was recorded on the 21st of April 2022 and released on the 6th of May. We'll see you next time for Star Trek Picard, Assimilation.