Countdown

Hey, Joe. Hi. So, we're back aboard Enterprise with Countdown Series 3, Episode 23, and I have to confess that I am starting to enjoy it quite a bit. I'm so sorry for you. I don't think this is a good episode of Star Trek, but I didn't hate it, and I certainly kind of enjoyed it. I think it's got heaps of flaws and stuff, but things happen and it looks pretty in places. And there's one or 2 scenes that I think are quite good. But, uh, it's a lot of stuff happening and not very much comes of it and none of the things happening seem to happen to anyone and that's kind of a problem. It's a lot of talk about, you know, are the anomalies forming? Has the weapon been supercharged? What does any of this mean? There was some techna babble somewhere in the middle of the episode and I was so lost with what they were talking about. Maybe I needed to have watched the whole season. to understand the true nuance of all the Tekno Babble. My biggest issue with this, which I quite enjoyed this for the most part, mostly because I thought they were reaching for some visual ambition, and in a lot of cases, they got there. There's a few cases where they can't, but there's some money on the screen in this episode and they're they're pulling off visual effects in not just the standard Star Trek way of lots of spaceships. They're trying different kind of aliens as well. There's action on the screen. There's some good physical effects and all that. The thing I miss most, and I sort of sent you a message about this is the humour, man, these people are so serious. Like, I know, geez, I know the planet Earth may be destroyed by this galactic superweapon of the Zindy. But fuck me. Like, everybody sits around in rooms very earnestly declaring just how terrible things are all the time. And what I miss is that sort of sardonic wit that you get in latter-day DS9 or the sort of camp humour of Wayon and Damar and stuff like that. Even the aliens in this, what are the big reptilians? I mean, they're just like, I mean, they're camping one way, but only because they are take themselves so seriously. You can't really get a joke out of, you know, the swimming tortoises that go about. And the weird insects, because you can't really understand what those clicky wiki noises that they're making are. And the Zindi themselves are incredibly serious too. So, yeah, there's not a lot of laughs here, is there? I'm like, right, we're trying to save the world, but if it's going to be populated with people like you, I don't know why we're bothering. I think part of the problem is that they don't want to do humour and they aren't funny and they can't relax. Why? And so I don't know. I know. But the other thing is, you can see them kind of trying to ape late Deep Space 9 with having a range of different aliens in a sort of big enemy conglomerate. But, like, think about it. Youve got Rick Worthy with a fucking latex sack on his head, that beautiful man with that just absurd fucking mask with the teeth and all of that. And he's the only one who's got a name. Oh, I think the main Zindy reptilian is called Dolum. And Rick Worthy's character has a name, his Janar, apparently, but Tucker Smallwood. Dolum and Janai. I know. Space names. And Tucker Smallwood, who is the Zindi Primate Counsellor. He had to resort to making up his own name because he didn't get one kind of in the show. And then you've got sort of poundland female shapeshifter there. And, you know, like, it's all just trying to be that, but what it misses is just the fun interactions between those characters relationships. Yeah, I think we'll go on about all the time on DS9 is that it's a massive soap. This is all of that without the soap. No, that's exactly right. And you, you know, you've given Tripp a real investment in this but he doesn't do anything other than his job. And with the exception of one scene with Tapole. Oh, there's another scene as well. There's a couple of scenes. I mean, like, I think, you know, because you've got Trip and you've got, like, like Connor and Jolene are the best 2 actors on the show. Billingsley as well. Putting them together was a sadly very, wasn't it? And that the scene with the 2 of them, I think, is the absolute highlight of the show. Just because Jolene finds things to do with this shitty dialogue. She's much, much better than she needs to be. And I think much better than most people realise she's really thoughtful, I think. And she does a really great job. There's lots of sound and noise and things. We start chasing the ball to earth. It's on its way to earth and we're chasing it. At the end of the episode. We're still chasing it. you know what I mean? Like, like, not a great deal has happened. That's basically the last 3 episodes, isn't it? You watched the last one. They spend quite a bit of time changing that form with that one as well, don't they? I did actually watch the last one and was absolutely baffled. I'd forgotten that Stormfront parts one and two, start series nine. So we don't even get to see them go back to earth in triumph, which I just think is bafflingly stupid. Oh, I can remember... I'm watching us through this for 24 episodes. Why aren't you showing us the consequences? The relief. You know, we do get there with home in series four. But we have to get through all that weird stuff with the Nazis first. The one I remember about 0 hour is Captain Archer standing on that ball with dreadful CGI behind him fighting the Cindy Man. Is it as bad as I remember? Like, I thought it was pretty great. Like I had fun watching the 2 episodes in order, I have to say. Like, it was a big kind of dumb action thing. It was pretty enjoyable. It looked great in places that looked cheesy as hell in places. All of the things that we want from Star Trek. But it doesn't really have a heart. It doesn't seem to ever be happening to anyone. Beyond the fact that sort of those latter-day DS9 arcs had the relationships that have been established and so all of that character stuff like pays off in those arcs in brilliant ways. It's also got the political landscape of the Alpha Quadrant, which we have been adding detail to since the early days of TNG. So when the pieces are manoeuvred, it all means something, you know, we understand what it means. We understand those races. What the hell, the Cindy man, like, I don't understand really how this thing is structured. I don't really understand how these creatures all came together. I don't really understand why they're trying to destroy the earth. So all of it's a bit ambiguous. Well, I have to say, though, that one thing that this season does well is that the kind of overall structure of the arc is pretty good in that we do learn why there's India doing what they're doing. And we do learn where the Delphic expanse comes from and how it comes to be. It's quite complicated, though, isn't it? That something in the future happens, which means they come back to the past, very Star Trek. I think it might be proving ground. It's certainly in one of the episodes that we've done, where Daniels takes Archer into the future. I remember the Enterprise J. And it was in a big corridor, weren't they? Yeah, and watching a space battle. Yeah, it looked really good. And so the idea was that the Federation was going to defeat the Zindi who were going to attack. And so what the Zindi did was they persuade. No, the, the, yeah, no, wait. The Federation was going to... The Federation was going to defeat the sound too sure, Nathan. Yeah, now I don't know. I think the Federation was going to put a stop to the sphere builders. And so the sphere builders convinced the Zindi that Earth was going to attack them so as to destroy the Federation in the past so that they could go on and continue terraforming the galaxy which is what the Delphic expanse is. So the Delphic expanse is generated by the spheres. And so when you see them creating the anomalies, you know, they're creating the anomalies, they've caused all of the weirdness that happened at the beginning of series 3. And I thought all of that kind of fits together well and we discover it in some kind of order throughout the season. I, like, I don't think they do a bad job of that. Not quite sure how to feel about any of that, though. How am I supposed to like have an emotional reaction to any of that? Whereas, you know, like the very simple idea of, oh, once upon a time, the changing were hunted throughout the universe, and so as a result, they've built up a power base and they are going to control the entire universe, so it never happens again. Nice and simple. Absolutely relatable. But I mean, I think Star Trek can afford to be a little bit more complicated, but the problem is, and and like, again, they don't have the years that Deep Space 9 had to build up the Dominion organically. Like they just had to say, all right, we want lots of different aliens in this thing. We'll just make them up and just dump them in the show as is. And that was the only alternative that they had. But what they didn't ever do was create interesting characters. And I just think it's telling that you've got Degra, who is reasonably interesting. The most interesting of all of the characters this year. And he's just died, the previous episode. Unfortunately, isn't it? Yeah. And so all we have is Rick Worthy and Tucker Smallwood. And neither of them have names. They're great actors, but none of them have any characteristics as characters. I don't know what they're like. Anything about them, you know. If they looked at the script, sort of, together for a go. does all this mean? Just sell it. Just sell it, all right? Just Star Trek, it'll be fine. I have to sell that episode of the Exiles home. All right. Just sell it. So anyway, look, I think it's fun. It's sort of fairly dumb, but it's kind of fine. The one thing I truly appreciate about this season is that on every level they're trying to be more ambitious than they were before. Yeah. In terms of how they're plotting out a year. In terms of what they're doing with their regular characters because they give trip and to Paul and Archer, you know, they put them in a lot of extreme situations, it is mostly just the Trinity. Although Hoshi gets something to do this week, I was quite pleased to see for once, just get tortured mostly, but something. should take anything. And absolutely visually. They have raised their game and then some because the shit they were putting out in one and two. I like, but just like on the page as well. Do you remember like Strange New World? We were going to a planet. That's it. Yeah, that's the big official hook. We've been doing that for 15 fucking seasons, for God's sakes. you know. Now they're like, no, we're going to go underwater and we're going to go into Delphic realms with huge super weapons being built and things like. Like they're really, really raised their game. The sad thing is it's too little too late. I think maybe if Enterprise had started on this note. It might have had a few more years left in it. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I've made the point before that in order to do it, they had to jettison Star Trek, and that's a problem, and it's almost acknowledged actually in this episode where Archer says it will be nice to get back to our actual mission, after all this is over, and I was thinking, yes, that would be nice. And it turns out it is, do you know what I mean? Because it manages to retain the serialised storytelling. It changes the characters and gives them things to do and new things to do. It just feels a bit more epic because the status quo keeps changing in series 4. And learning, aren't they? They're definitely learning. I just, I wonder if there's enough story here for a 26 episode season. I wonder if this would sit better today in our sort of 10 to 12 episode seasons where you could tell a really tight version of the Zindi Arc. Imagine how good it would look today as well. Well, I mean, I think there's something, you know, there's a parallel between that and series 4 of Discovery, isn't there, where there's a giant superweapon that's destroyed a planet, and then we have to go and find the people who did it and try and communicate with them. And of course, it's not we try and blow the shit out of them because it's still Star Trek. They're not going to jettison Star Trek. But it is very similar and it's serialised and it works incredibly well. Oh, they're not just tearing chunks out of planets in that. They're destroying entire world. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They do have the stakes. Well, I suppose we should go and watch this thing and see just how exciting the anomalies and the super weapons are. They're pretty exciting. All right. Oh, not the design of it, that big ball. It's great. All right. I am going to get us in then in that case. 5, 4, 3, 2, one, and we're off. Previously on Enterprise. Yeah. Now, I didn't know half of this, but it is pretty exciting. So here's Degra. The shuttle pod looks really great. Oh yeah. So the Maco thing gets Mako. that seems to be how Malcolm pronounces it. The Makos get... Oh, can we talk about Malcolm Reed later, please? Yeah, I think that that scene is actually pretty good, but I think the problem is that maybe he's not all that good. He's not good at all. I feel like that could be quite moving. Oh, look, there is that enormous thing. I know, it looks amazing, doesn't it? It is great design. Yeah. less amazing though. However, oh, there's indie... Insectoids. Terrible. I feel so sorry for Scott McDonald in that hideous costume surrounding all that by all that wire. Oh, the, um, no, he's the reptilian. Yeah, it's called the time. I think he got takes. Emarks about 8.2 on the Beaumarian scale. Yeah, I actually don't think they're that terrible. Like, it's a fairly detailed mask and they've made it... Oh, but they look... But that's so silly. That's not bad. Why is that bad? You know. Oh my god. Linda Parks opened his script up. What? I get the 1st scene. I get the 1st second. I am unconscious though. Oh, no, here she is. So she was beamed off the Enterprise Bridge at the end of the last episode. which was called the Council. The council. Oh, God. Oh, that's him, finally. I need to work on these titles, though, don't they? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you not remember the heady days of Wrongs Darker than Death and Knights? Before the world is hollow and I have touched the sky. In the pale moonlight. So this guy has been in it quite a lot. Hasn't he? Like, so Scott McDonald, we know him from something else? Yes. Oh, good grief. You absolutely thought he was incredibly good in rocks and shoals. He was the head Gemadar. Oh, okay. All right. So he's used to latex. Well, yeah, but he gave, he got some decent material on that. He gave a wonderful performance. He was also Tosk in their 1st season. Yeah, so getting captive pursues. Brilliant. I feel like he's just getting stupider as he goes along. Really? I think that's really exciting. I have to say that this is unpleasant to watch. and kind of horrible. Do you know what I mean? Like, this is sort of hard. We cut to her later on when they rescue her. She's really bruised and beaten. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you've got, like to the point where, you know, Archer still is dragging her around, you know, from place to place, even though she's recuperating in hospital and stuff. So it is pretty nasty in the scene where she kind of goes to throw herself down into the thing so that she, like there's one moment which I think is really great, which is not a Hoshi acting moment like it's not Linda getting to act, but it's when Dolum discovers that instead of decoding the 3 codes, she's added an additional encryption layer, which I just thought was really great. Like, that just shows how awesome Ho she is. But it wasn't Linda Park getting to be awesome, which was a shame because she's mostly unconscious or hypnotised for this. And it is annoying because usually when they give her something to do. She's good. She's a good actress. Do you not think they could have beefed up this music for series three? you know, trying to do this sort of macho arc. They could have done a rock version of the theme tune. They do beef it up though. I think it is a little bit It's a little bit like the way that the Deep Space 9 theme gets beefed up in series four. They do. Not as much as they beef it up in that alternative universe episode. No, that's true. Oh, that is true. I just fancy, imagine like kiss singing this song, you know something like that. That's what I'm thinking. No, I still like the dad core middle of the road. Oh, God. love it. It's just so strange to go from all this action to that song. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a bit jarring, isn't it? See this looks great, doesn't it? And of course, they've been able to trash the enterprise for the 1st time over a series of episodes, the main ship of a Star Trek show has been distressed, you know. That might be the best thing they do. Yeah. Because we watched it getting pummelled, but then there's a wonderful episode afterwards where every scene, you could see sparks flying as they're trying to weld bits of it together. It's great, isn't it? They truly want to convince it, it's sort of dire straits. So this is Stephen Culp, is that right? And he is in everything, I think. He does lots of sort of genre stuff and he's properly good, I think, in this. I think he's very good in this. Well, is he having a relationship with this woman that Malcolm Reid's failed to bring back? No, was it a woman I didn't even know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the point is... That's why that's why he goes, you know where he goes to get Hoshi? I think it's the parallel, is they're both bringing back a woman that they're kind of woman that we didn't save. So, I mean, so there's been tension between the 2 of them in a sort of fairly boring way. And there is a... Have you seen that episode? Where they literally slug it out for 45 minutes, they have a series of punch-ups. Oh God, it's so tedious. I mean, there's stuff there for Malcolm to do. It's not obviously like emotional stuff because fuck an hell look at Rick Worthy. What to this pan... Which one's Rick Worthy? Is he the one that's got all the hair on it? No, no, that's trick worthy, the arboreal, and that's, um, that stuck a small wood there with the kind of... Directed by the worst Robert. Did you know it? It's the worst, Robert. So the worst Robert does 4 voyages and 4 enterprises. He's not a bad director. It's all right. We've never seen him direct before on untitled Star Trek project. I think that this is his last one. He did he did one voyage. I know he started with the one with Kate Mulgrew, you know questioning a religion. It was that episode. Oh, sacred ground. Sacred ground. But he does go on to do a couple of absolute bangers. I thought he directed the action really well here. I do think that I do have struggle with pace, an enterprise. They want it to be like furious, but instead it's sort of just a trot, you know? I mean, I think this is this, again, this slows the whole thing down, but this is the best scene in the episode, I think. Well, I quite like the tennis scene as well that they have, where they talk about, I think that's very good too. But they do put a joke in that scene and then it makes me quite pleased that this is as serious as it is. Do you remember the joke about chef and the steaks? Yeah, yeah. It's not good. They can't write funny jokes, you know, it's baffling. So, I mean, this is all very kind of functional. Maybe just a scene later. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's, but it is a scene later when they're working. I mean, this is just sort of setting the whole thing up, isn't it? But there's something about, I think, I don't know. Is it just that they're the 2 sexiest people on the ship, but they're also incredibly childish. I just going to say to you, every time Tucker gets a close-up, I do want to reach in and kiss him. Yeah, he's beautiful. And she's beautiful. She's obviously beautiful. They're both there for that reason. The scene is later. And because the 2 of them have been having a thing and because, um you know, um, poor old Jolene's character has been going through a lot this season, um, oh, she got addicted to drugs, didn't she? At one point. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I can't remember what it's called. It was a very Star Trek name for a drug though. Yes. Oh, more of Hoshi being tortured here. Very pleasant to watch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. just think that's horrible. She lets out a ripper of a scream in that scene. Where I sort of recoiled. I was like, wow. Well, in fact, that's a bit of a problem, isn't it? Do you know what I mean? Because that makes it worse. If it's a cartoon, then it doesn't matter. If there, if you're not going to deal with the consequences, then don't make it so horrible. You know, Nathan, nature has created many sort of beautiful and interesting and quirky and unusual species. I've never seen anything quite like that man on the right there though. All of that. unpleasant hair all over his face. So look at them because they have these extra nostrils just at the top of their cheekbones. And all of the Zindi hab. All of the different nose issues. Yeah, yeah. The woman with no nose. extra nostrils. No, but you, look, the next time we have a close-up of, of, um Rick and Tucker. Look, see, both of them have those nostrils just under their eyes. That was too short, that shot. But keep an eye out for it. And the insectoids and the reptilians have it as well. And look, there it is under the amphibian's eye as well, not the amphibian, the aquatic. So they all have it. So they all evolved on the same planet. It's a planet that evolved 6 sentient races. We get a mention of the avians at the beginning of the next episode and they've died out. And so what? They've all come together under the umbrella term of the Zindy. Yeah, because they come from the same planet. So we've just evolved one. We used to have more than one intelligent species on Earth, but I don't know what happened and now it's just, but now these guys have six. Much like planet Earth, politically, it's all a bit tenuous and there's lots of infighting going on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All of that. But none of it's very interesting, though, is it? No, no. Although, like, there is something here, like we get these guys characterise, like the whale guys are kind of smart and slow moving. And like this bit here where Rickworthy manages to convey through the fucking latex sack on his head that he's nervous about water you know, like he's he's visibly anxious. Holy shit, he's so pretty. What have they done? It's just insane. I love. Do you know what? I think the special effects aren't there to show these aquatic creatures. But I love that they went there. Oh yeah, me too. I think just something a bit and the insect toys. The insect toys are even worse in CGI terms. I mean, the insectoids are better than those 8472. Let's, be fair. Well, I'd hope so. We're a few years on from there now. Yeah, yeah. No, that's our 1st attempt. This is 2004. So it's a... But you know, kind of later. I know we've just signed they just did various types of latex with the shapeshifters and the Jem'adar and the water. But they put all the energy into the characterisation of them. And that's where you need to do it, you know, like, you're doing something that is, it is interesting to look at in comparison to DS9, but it's not as interesting to watch. No. I think that scene. I mean, in this scene, Archer is the only one with a name. Like, I don't think Rick Worthy's character gets called by name in this episode at all. I think I just found it from the credits. I was chuckling to myself watching Scott Bacula clearly talking to just a pane of glass, but giving all the emotion he possibly can to it. Yeah, I mean, he's doing okay here, isn't he? Like, I mean, why are they given? is it Rick worthy on the right there? Is that worthy? Why have they given him those teeth that make him look really stupid? They really do, don't they? You know, like the class dumps. That's what you look like. He's got like big cleetus teeth. Like, it's ridiculous. He looks like a mutant Easter bunny, doesn't he? I mean, very strange. The terrible thing is he's supposed to be an ape, right? He's an arboreal. So you've got the indie primates and there's indie arboreals. But surely they both have to be primates. I don't quite understand that, but the arboreals live in trees. And so they're apes. In a massive lapse of taste, they've given that job to a black man. Sorry to interrupt you. This shot here when they walk into where the food weapon is. good isn't it? It goes from a CGI shop of them walking across the gantries with all of that detail around them. To a physical set with that rotating ball inside of it. I was utterly sold. It's really good And it establishes the walkway that archers running, you know, when he sets the thing to explode. He runs on that entry. You know, like it sets up that space for this episode and the next episode, and it's where the climax happens, and it looks stunning and even the set looks great. There's heaps of negative space. The green and purple are good colours, like it looks really good. It looks good on the reptilian's outfits. I think like it's a really, really good set. The ball, the rotating ball, which reminds us that we're in a giant fucking rotating ball. Do you know what I mean? So they have a rotating ball in there just to remind us of it. That you recognise the rotating ball? No. It's the mine from minefield, the most recent episode of untitled star of... Just spinning around. Yeah, yeah. Oh, at least they got some use out of it. It's not often I look at a Star Trek set and say, God, I'd love to have one of those in my house. It's like really cool. Yeah. I mean, clearly that, I think that whole sequence of him them walking in there, that is sort of the money shot of this episode. And they've poured a lot of resources into making that as good as it can be. But I mean, they do use it later. Like they use whatever models they create later for the climax. So they're establishing what's happening in the next episode. And our last shot of Bacula is him running along that gantry in order to escape the... Just goes to show what they are capable of. I don't think they've got the time or the money to for it to be that good all the time, but that's the peaks they can reach. But I mean, the other thing that they do they give all of the Zindi, their own ships and their own distinctively design ships and I think the reptilian ships and the aquatic ships, I'm not quite sure which ones are the insecto ships, look great. So this is our best scene, isn't it? This is our best thing. Oh, it's so pissy in this scene. I love it. But then she realises that she's pissy and they come. you know they come together. It's really nice. But she's always doing something, isn't she? Like, she is being busy, but she kind of has a right to do it. And then he's sort of dismissing her and it being a prick, do you know what I mean? And saying, I'm not going to put up with this. But he's not being, he's not unpleasant. Do you know what I mean? And this is the 1st time she ever calls him Trib. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really good, isn't it? And then she's like being honest. This whole situation has made me become very emotional. Please be patient with me. Yeah, it's good, isn't it? And they like each other and it's... is a show where characters are not often emotionally honest with each other. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, they can only do it with the Vulcan character because she kind of explains her emotions because we can't do some text. Do you know what I mean? But she just sells this so well. I think you know, I don't know. I don't, well, she gets, she gets on nothing line of, you know, I really can't do this on my own, but she's not obviously talking about the work. No that's right. She needs him there. And she sells that line. I think that's the that's the important line here. And and like him not being a prick. You know, when the show started, I was just thinking today about Strange New World and my theory that all of DePoll's lines would be improved if she just continued with the words, you fucking idiot, at the end of it, because it had that antagonistic relationship where we're all men and we're cool and we don't give a shit and she's saying, well, maybe we could be more cautious or maybe you could not do this. Look at that shot. Look at the shot of Scott McDonald in the costume. It looks amazing the way that's lit. lit. Um, Anyway, uh, you know, that antagonistic relationship was unpleasant to watch and bordered on kind of them being racist and sexist and just generally horrible. But now the relationship between trip and pol is fantastic. It's the best relationship on the show. Why have they put him in all of those straight, that weird wire costume? It looks so cumbersome, doesn't it? I really like it. When there's a long shot. Look at it. nobody would choose to put that bloody thing on. It's not protecting you from anything. I don't understand. It's not a fashion statement. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, the light shines off it. I think it looks good. Like, I think they look pretty good. Who are these people again? These cut price. Shape shifter. So these are the sphere builders, the people who created the Delphic expands. and they want to terraform the entire galaxy. They want to do to the galaxy, what they've done to the Delphic expanse and make it uninhabitable for everyone else. I just got no personality. It's all, have they? Like, basically, it's a series of visual quotes. You go into a white space a bit like the prophets and they talk to each other. But they cut looking at each other like the camera moves from purpose to another. It's very crap. Like it is very strange. No, no, I see you're trying to make this look interesting, but just make them interesting. All this fucking inscrutable dialogue, but means nothing. just ridiculous. It is ridiculous. Zero, dear. You know, suddenly Tucker Smallwood's makeup doesn't look quite as egregious as poor Rick Worthies. I did read the thing and apparently he got infected tear duct and like, and I wonder whether you can actually see his eyes swelling up. Apparently it was horribly unpleasant to wear, like despite the fact that it is less aggressive. I mean, at least like a small wood just, they just put the bag on his head at the beginning of the day and put his teeth in and he's probably ready to go, a bit of, you know? He must have said, right, oh, God, I've got a semi-regular role in starting. Right. This is our concept art of what you're going to look like. How much are you willing to pay me? Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of terrible, is it? They're talking about they're talking about Degra, a lawyer because Degra was the one interesting character. Yeah. And so, I mean, he was kind of the Oppenheimer sort of thing wasn't he? He designed the weapon and then was horrified by what had been done with it. Oh, wow. That's a wonderful episode. where they kidnap Degra and the create a fake shuttle. It's a really great episode. There are some good there's some good stuff in three So we saw him in improving ground. That's where I know him from where he that had already happened, I think. It introduces Degra that way, doesn't it, with the kidnapping? The trouble with spreading this out across 26 is they still want to do things like Carbon Creek. Things like that, you know? And it doesn't fit into the year at all. But I think I think they have to do that. It's the same reason that they have to do better being better bang and take me out to the holosuite during the war arc. They only have to do that because it's fabulous. Yes, why wouldn't you do that? Well, yeah, Carbon Creek or the future. Listen to this dialogue. I know, it's ridiculous. Then the time has come. And then she turned to talk to her. And then, like, it's just like, what's going on? I love that ball. It's so good, isn't it? It looks... And now you said it. I can see it is that mine, but they sort of tarted it up with a bit of holographic paper and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. List it in a more interesting way. Well, and it's spinning it around. Spinning on axis. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. I mean, like, watching this without hearing the dismal dialogue and just looking at the pretty pictures and having a conversation with you. I think this might be the best possible way to watch this, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. without hearing what anybody's got to say. Because you notice who the scriptwriter was on this. It wasn't Andre Bormanis. No under. I mean, halfway through when that techno pabble started hitting, I was like, you didn't need to tell me, Andre Belmont. writer of Star Trek science logs. I mean, look at all these ships. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's pretty incredible. I mean, they're great. I mean, they're not quite as fun as the alpha quadrant strips, I don't think, but I think they do a pretty good job for a sort of one-off thing. and there are, you know, like 5 different designs for the different types of Zindi. and they're all quite distinct. And I think the aquantic ones look great and they remind you of the aquatic guides because they've got all the sort of glass tanks and stuff. In terms of design, they have stepped up a notch from Voyager, I think. Do you remember the Kazon ships were just sort of cut price? Kardashian? Oh, I quite like Amazon chips, actually. I think we've had this conversation. What are you talking about? They look really cute. You really want a spaceship. I'll buy you one So I, see, this I like, like you've got Malcolm he's written the report and he gives it to him, but the subtext is I'm acknowledging how you feel about what happened to her. Do you know what I mean? Like it's a scene that is doing more than it seems to on paper, but it's also just cheesy as hell and it's here to quickly resolve the thing because he's going to be killed later in the episode. I just don't think he sells the emotional material. No, I think that's a problem. There's a kind of restrained. It's literally a stiff upper lip thing. Look at him here. Like he does look like he's almost about to lose it. And it's like literally stiff upper lip. you know you can see it quivering. So he's trying to kind of convey some sort of emotion. But there's nothing in that character. Like, I don't know anything about him. Um, and I, I'm not very interested. I mean, he could have been funny. The chance we got to learn about him in minefield. What have we learned? It was so boring. Absolutely nothing. Just that he wants to talk about security patrols when he's having his breakfast. That's it. Yeah, yeah, but there's also, like, there's something about, like you know, they never do with this, with the McKee either, but suddenly you've got soldiers on board Enterprise, and that's a really, really significant kind of, oh, it's the puppy. This was the moment Mark walked into the room and for once he went oh, dog. What a good boy. feed him from the table, Jonathan. This banter. I'm sorry. I know. It's a power. coming up. Who's complaining? Only chef. You know? Why the hell is the chef's name though? And you call him chef, don't they? Don't you remember who plays him in the final episode? Yeah, Jonathan Frakes. isn't it? It's great. It is. It's Jonathan Franks. It's so good. I think that's great. You never see him. You are right. That is a good line about, it would be nice to get back to a mission of exploring space instead of becoming terrorists, you know? No, I think this is funny. I told the engineering team, uh, you know, what are you going to do to Paul, and Tapol says, uh, you know, you may buy me a drink like she's kind of put off, and she doesn't understand the question. Do you remember these scenes? Do you remember these scenes in season one when it was so awkward between the 3 of them? And there was casual racism flying about the place all the time? Like they truly have relaxed a lot. Well, they'd been for a lot as well. You know, like they've clearly, because Jolene's conventionally attractive and she looks great in a slinky uniform and stuff. That's clearly what they've done. They're trying to do 7 of 9 again. Do you know what I mean? 7 of 9 in a slinky outfit and she's dismissive of you and that's kind of sexy. But she's like Jerry. a much better actor than they expected, I think, and then she needs to be. And I think she's really good. again, I think this scene is great. It's not even spoiled by the presence of Jonathan Archer in it. It is the other good scene, I think. watching art show in this episode, and I was thinking to myself, like, we've sort of discovered in many episodes that he's a total prick. But, like, at this point, they have sort of pushed a lot of those unlikeable characteristics aside. I was like, why is he still so boring? Because like, Kate isn't boring. Avery isn't boring. and Patrick isn't boring. And Scott is a great actor. Yeah, he's a fantastic actor. And a leading man. You know, he had his own show that had a regular cast of two. You know that show completely rested on his shoulders. I don't know. What is it? What's not there? I don't know, because that was a... They've got all the ingredients there to make him the best captain. It was like, 0 my god, they've cast someone famous in a Star Trek. Like, I just couldn't believe it. It's not like the guys off Benson. Like it's literally Scott Bacula. And I think when I watched the 1st episode. I went into Enterprise and that was the the big selling point. The guy from Quantum Leap is the head of this and I couldn't believe what a shit he was in Broken Bone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The crushing disappointment. I was like, no, he can't be like this all the way. He was. He was. So the Zindi can see, not the Zindi, the sphere builders can see the future because they're from the future or something. I don't understand. But, um, and so they've created the Delphic expanse, and so they create these anomalies around the, around the weapon to kind of preserve it. And then next episode they create anomalies around the spheres to prevent them from destroying the sphere like they promise to. See, this is great. The fleet go into attack the whole. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I just think as well. The way it has those 2 skins that rotate in different directions. It looks incredible. It's so dynamic. It's really great. I think there's more than two. I think there's at least 3 layers rotating in different directions. I think they may have taken, you know, the bork sphere, but they had in endgame and just put a couple of layers around it. But who cares? I mean, because the problem is it's the Death Star, right? It's the Zindi Death Star, the moment you have a spherical ship that destroys the planet. That's what it has to be. And so they have to make it look different from that. And I think they do that really successfully. I think it looks really, really good. And it looks threatening, you know? in a way that a lot of things in Star Trek don't. And weird as well. Like nothing we've ever seen in Star Trek, and I think absolutely they needed to do that. It's all going on here. Spaceships exploding. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But again, it's people with space names or no names at all. I love this. They later on we get scenes where they shoot the aquatic ship and all of the water spills out. Couldn't somebody have just said, look, why are we going to save Hoshi? You don't even get a line, normally? Like, would we even notice she was gone? Look at him at the pilot. I mean, he hasn't had a line in the episode. We'll send him off with her as well. It's crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do I do think that is a big mistake of enterprises. Sometimes they don't realise what they've got under their noses. Well, I mean, I think it's terrible. I think it's really genuinely terrible that the 2 non-white regular characters get nothing to do. Like, I think that's that's disgraceful. And like I already said, I think that this show is a reaction against the diversity on Voyager, the increasing diversity in Star Trek shows, and it's just like, nope, let's get white men in charge again, and it, like, it's, it's shameful how poorly treated those characters are. I've cast a load of non-white people as the villains as well. I mean, no, right, is it? And then cover them in latex. Yes. Yeah. I think I think maybe that's our modern day reading on... I don't think that's what they were going for at all. I genuinely think it's a reaction against, like, I think it's a conscious reaction and that's why we take it back to the past. Well, you think they were trying to make Star Trek less diverse? Yep. Yep. Yep. No aliens on the ship because Why would they do that? Because I think they wanted to make it more relatable to a particular demographic. Yeah, yeah. Oh, no, I'm certain that that's a deliberate, that's deliberate. Just not what Star Trek is at all. Absolutely. I mean, oh, there we go. Back to the white space. And the field. I think this poor woman's doing every line, isn't it? Right, go and stand over there now. Right, go, stand. These are different people. They're different. don't know. Oh my god, what's going on? So this is a sphere. So remember the spheres are generating the expanse and so they can create anomalies and warp space. And so that's what they're doing here to protect. Ah, yes. Isn't that what happens when archer's in the shower earlier in the season? Oh, I want to stop, doesn't it, around him? But remember how, remember how um, all of those Vulcans go crazy in that earlier... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Enterprise does the walking dates. Yeah. Quite success. Look at this. I know. Look at the all the water comes out and turns to ice. Like the water comes out and turns to shards of ice. looks amazing. Where was all this ambition in series one and two? really good, isn't it? What the hell is this we're going into now? Nathan, I don't know what's going on, but it's very exciting. Shit's being torn apart. No, no. I mean, that's it. It's the anomalies that are being created. It's really good. isn't it? Like they're super powerful. And again, you know, they're, I don't know why they can't just do that to Earth or whatever, but... Not to have an anomaly, isn't it? It just tears ships apart rather than... Yeah, yeah, but they made it in order to do that. Like, that's how they defend. I mean, think about the dark matter anomaly in discovery series 4 that destroys whole planets, you know. I've got to say, Robert Duncan McNeil, you're doing pretty well in this. Okay. He does okay. Again, I a bit rude about the pace earlier, but it's wrapped up a lot. I think the mechanics of this rescue work really well. Do you know what I mean? The number of times we've seen people go on a ship and rescue. Like I think, you know, Hayes, rescuing Hoshi. does a great job. They're still doing this thing, though. Someone appears, shoots the gun, goes back in. Someone else appears, shoot the gun. goes back in. Hide. I think, you know, you sort of watch Kurtzman Trek now. Everyone's just firing all the time. It was deliberately paced back in the day. Oh, what are these? what are these calls again? these great. The rep. monsters. reptilians. I know they're terrible names too. He was, I wanted him to say, God, I'm so hot. I need to take off my wife. coat rang a coat. No, it's good in hot environments because it's air. It airs, you know, like it lets the air in. Like, this is incredibly exciting, but fuck me, it is all just a load of Hitler babble, wouldn't it? Oh yeah, I'm so what do you mean, the buffer and all of that. sort of thing, like a dialogue. There's not a line of character in it. No, no, it's entirely functional dialogue. It's not all techno-babble, though. It is procedural, really. I mean, who cares when they're shooting guns and destroying shit yeah. Like, I like this. I bought this and I didn't know that Culp died in this episode. I, you know, wasn't even really thinking a culp. What's his name? What's the character called? Uh, Hed Mac Hayes. Major Hayes. Stephen Culb. Edmal. I don't even know his name. No, I think they called him, they called the Makos earlier, but that, I don't even know the pilot's name and he's in full series fuck's name. And then we so nearly rescue him. It's pretty great, isn't it? Like, we're so nearly rescue him. Oh, did you see that? He beamed in and then by the time he beamed in, Then he went, oh like I've been here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where'd we come? We have to do the materialisation thing and then him falling over. It's a bit Oh, wonderful. Wonderful. Did you notice a sort of trip had a bit of dirt on his face then? Yeah, it looks good. It always looks good. I can see why they gave in so much. Mind you, what's the pilot's name again? Uh, Anthony Mayweather? Merriweather. Mayweather. Mayweather. Travis, he's with the same name as my brother. I don't know why they don't just have a camera stationed on him all the time. He's so pretty. And ridiculously young. What is going on? Anomalies everywhere, bursting and blooming like mushroom clouds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. around the sphere. awesome, isn't it? It looks really good. It just ships going everywhere, getting the shit beaten out of them. This is more exciting than when I was watching it earlier. I don't know what. Maybe I was on my phone during this. Far more excited watching it with you. But I was on my own. Oh boy. So, all right, so they've gone. And so the reptiloids. I want to call them reptiloids, because of itchank is going to the galaxy. So the reptilians are gone with a weapon. And so that's essentially the end of this part of the episode isn't it? So now it's all just kind of mopping up. Um, uh, that's such a funny line. That's such a funny line. The, I'm afraid he's a bit of a mother handline is actually, poor old Malcolm cracking a joke, which I think worked really well. The 2 of them have a little moment of levity together. Do you know what's not a great line? Thanks for bringing her home. Oh, all in a days while. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Super terrible, isn't it? kind of boring. Is he dead now then, Hayes? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think I would rather have kept Hayes and killed Reed. We should have sent read off on that mission. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Maybe that would have been more shocking as well. It might have been a little change of thing. Okay. And I don't think it would have done the show any harm whatsoever. No, no. Stephen Cobb's a proper guy, you know, like he's he's a thing. What are those discs that Dr. Fox is holding up against him? Oh, it's like a defibrillator, isn't it? Okay. Yeah, yeah. It's most it's like that thing that they put around Tasha's head to revive her. Blob of blood. You know what's unfortunate about Rick Worthy's costume? It's got the same sort of fluffy white hair as his face. So I'm like, I'm not sure where the costume ends and his face begins. Yeah, yeah, I know, down his shoulders and stuff. terrible. Dude, does look a bit like he's wearing a mink coat, doesn't it? so bad. Oh, my God. Fetch me my fabulous coat is I'm off to destroy a planet. He looks so fucking dopey. right. It says giant teeth. He's like the Joan Collins of his own people. Ooh. Shall we launch it? How do I look? Okay, launch the swear. Fabulous. So fortunately, they've designed this so that Sphere 41, which they've named. Do you know what I mean? They haven't decided to call it sphere one because it's the sphere that if you destroyed all the other ones. Just to make the hitchhikers joke, maybe. But I would have called it sphere one if it was like, oh, here you go. I was thinking of you during this scene because it's like, uh, I just, you know, like his, um, his major culp's dead, major culp major Hayes is dead. Now, I want you, now, I want you to all volunteer. So everyone who wants to go on this deadly suicide mission. Please step forward. Do you know what I'd love to do? Nathan, I'd love to do a supercar of all of these scenes in 90s trek because there's so many of them. But I want to insert me and every single one going. No, no, you're right. You go. Or just find a scene of Mariner from Lower Decks. Just going, no, you're okay. It's a fuck all of those guys. But it was men as well. For God's sake, it's 2151. We did see a woman earlier. I think she got shot though, didn't she? No, no, she was, maybe she was in hospital. I don't know, but I mean, for God's sake. Anthony Montgomery. Is that Malcolm Reid? Anthony Montgomery. And I thought Anthony Montgomery was... don't know what his name is. What's his name? I can't remember. Anyway, he's got the thinnest lips of anyone in Star Wars, isn't he? very odd looking, I think. He wouldn't be a good kisser, would he? No, no. Anti-Montgomery on the other hand. absolutely. That's just that I love Billingsley. The Zindi parasites were no match for my osmotic eel. I love you so much. Oh, it's not Montague. You know what you needed in that role? Somebody could just say this shit and make it utterly convincing and it doesn't. Like he's doing the drama here now. Do you know what I mean? No, you can't take traumatic action. You can't take her. You know, like this confrontation between the 2 of them is good. And he's not being an asshole. It's like Archer actually tones it down and convinces him. But like he's selling it despite the, you know, denobulus. Spoiled, doctor. for me. Because I just saw him, he had a long shot there, wearing that 70s swingers costume. And that's all we all see now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Put your keys in the bowl. Oh, look at these insectoids. I want to see if they've got the nostrils. It's a bit hard to tell. I need a close up. I mean, how do I reproduce? don't want to know. Well, flies look like that and they reproduce like flies. So I'm sure that it's not a problem. And I'm sure they find each other very attractive. It is fun though, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think there's something really fun and cartoony about the whole idea of the Zindi and all of these different aliens and stuff. Like, that's great. That is great, but it's not the Dominion. You gotta remember, we are just dipping into one episode, though. Like, you know, a season of this where there's no substance and relationships. You're like, oh, God, almighty, you know, like, please. No, it's still moving this. We just killed the, we killed the insectoids for not being mad enough. It has got penultimate episode energy, doesn't it? Oh, yeah, yeah, because things are at the very worst. But what we're doing is we're kind of now splitting them off into the 2 plots, the A plot and the B plot of the final episode. So the A plot is going to be what, destroying the the weapon and the B plot, which actually is probably we spend more time on because it's the one with trip and to pile in it. Look at them, God bless them. expect you to keep him in line. Not a trip, sorry, just a ball. There's no way of her looking comfortable in that Thai costume, is there? That's why we normally have lots of tighter shots than that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. See, that's a, I think that's a really sort of lame way to end it. Well, especially when we had all of that action in the last third. If you could have ended it with a real and with a weapon sort of just activating and then heading off. That's where I figured they were going to go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it is very much that it ends in the place where it starts isn't it? Like it just basically ends where it starts with a weapon on its way to earth, you know? And we, I don't know, they arm it, I guess. They stop to arm it and then we deal with it for a bit. That's why I think the decision to say this is one part we're not going to do both of them, even though I did it because I just didn't want to do 2 episodes of enterprise in a row. was the right one because this episode ends, doesn't it? And then it sets up the, the, the next one. And that approach to serialisation in this series, I think, works really well and we'll pay off. It doesn't even have a to be continued, does it? No, no, it doesn't. No, no, no. Maybe that should be our new rule only when there's a to me. Well, I think roughly speaking, that's the rule. Um, I've got to say, I enjoyed that far more watching it with you than I did the 2 times I watched it by myself. I think your enthusiasm was rubbing off and on. Yeah, I mean, I really liked it. I had fun. So we have done something like 16 episodes of Enterprise, right? And we've mostly done season four. So we've done 2 of season one. We're saving the worst for last. We are going to have to do some more season one. We've only done two. We've done 4 of season two. We've done 4 of season 3 now, and we've done one, two, three, four five, 6 of season four, including two, two parters. The Mirror Universe one and then the finale 2 parter. I don't know. Like, I'm just growing to like it more. Even though it's shit, and even though it has all of the flaws that we pointed out, it is still Star Trek, and I like Star Trek. I think I could pretty much divide enterprise into two. and 2 and 3 and four. One and 2 I find very trying. and they're learning lessons that frankly, they should have learned in the previous 2 series that they worked on Foster Evan series of feasts. Yeah. But I think from 3 onwards, there's a desire, I think it's a desire to try and keep Star Trek on the air. They know time is running out. So they're trying harder. And certainly the latter half of series three. I don't know why. The next episode started and the reptilian people are eating mice. Mice, yeah. So, do you remember V in the 1980s, you'll probably be young. No, yeah, yeah, yeah. Fabulous hair. Yeah, yeah, yeah. lizard people. Yeah, that's right. But their big thing was that they ate rats, remember? And so you would see that. And so we got that here and we can do it with CG, so have them regal before they drop into someone's mouth. But that's them kind of toasting, you know, and they mention the avians, Indy, who are extinct. I think somewhere, just to finish that, well, in the middle of series three, we hit sort of a Zassy Prime, which we've done. And then it just sort of runs from that point on all the way to the end. And it is a bit predictable. We know the weapon's eventually going to be activated. You know, it's going to head towards Earth. We know we're going to stop it. But along the way, I keep saying the word ambitious, there's some ambitious action. There are some ambitious visuals. I don't know, it is trying harder. And then obviously in four, as we've already discussed. Then they start making Star Trek. Finally, yeah. They start making Star Trek. and it's good Star Trek. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah. So I think you're right. There is stuff of worth in Enterprise. My big sticking point will forever be that they're doing my favourite show worse. Yes, exactly. All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to work out where we're going next. This was my choice as always. And so it's your turn, Joe, to decide what we're choosing from. Have you made a decision? I did, and I made a promise to you off mic last week. That, you know what? been a long time since we've gone to the original series. We absolutely should head there. But Nathan, you know, in age, twist shock. I'm just having so much fun in the 90s. Let's just do one more, just one more, and then we'll head off and watch some good Star Trek. Okay, that sounds like a plan. So I put them all in. Next gen, DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise. Brilliant. All right? Okay. Hey. Ooh. Your random Star Trek, the next generation episode is season four. Good sign. Episode 21, The Drumhead. Oh, no, let's do that. Come on. I brought down better men than you, Nathan Bottomleaf. So then. It's so good. She's magnificent. Oh, let's do it, boy. Like all of that. We've done a sort of a trial episode, have we? There's so many of them, but I don't think they've done one yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is a thing, but I think it's a really, really good one. And, um, you know, like kind of timely in a way because obviously it's got all sorts of antecedents in, um, you know, the crucible and stuff like that. Like, it's proper. How she sees the paranoia and it grows amongst people is so disturbing. Yeah, bloody. yeah let's do it. I mean, I just think we need to. not gonna pull anything like anything better than that out of my arse today, am I? Absolutely not. We're doing it. You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley, where online at Untitled Star Trek Project com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts. Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lahn. This episode was recorded on the 22nd of April 2025 and released on the 25th of April. We'll see you next time for Star Trek the Next Generation, the Drumhead. Just as what would we have had next? Oh, no. Voyager. concerning Fly featuring Leonardo da Vinci. That's actually not so bad, but absolutely not. The slippery slope, we can't start sort of 2nd guessing ourselves. It's definitely the drum head. A superb speech from Picard at the end. It just absolutely goes to show how they've learned how to give Patrick Stewart a good speech. between justice and the drumhead. That is a good choice. I'm gonna have to run.