Descent
Descent, Part II

Hey, Joe. Hi. Today, we're going back to what is my 1st love, which is Star Trek the Next Generation, the very, very 1st Star Trek series that I got to know and love, and I was watching it as it was being released. I didn't sort of discover it later. Well, I discovered it a bit later, but we're about to watch episodes that I can actually remember seeing for the 1st time. Do you know, there's an interesting difference between the 2 of us similarity and difference. The similarities next generation is my 1st Star Trek show as well. And yet you know where my love is. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I acknowledge that Deep Space 9 is better in all kinds of ways. But I'm not talking about like, which is a superior show. Like, that's my default. I love DS9 and yours is your default. I love next generation, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. But Next Generation can occasionally be kind of tedious and I think we're going to discover during this episode that it does... That it reaches a point where it does feel a little bit played out. So we... Yeah. So we are watching the very last season finale leading into a cliffhanger. So the series 6 finale, descent, which screened, what, in June 1993. And then we're going to watch descent part two, which is obviously the season opener for series 7, which I think screened in what September or something? There wasn't a massive break between them, I think. And I think there was a reason for that as well. as we just talked about very briefly off mic. Season 7 of Next Generation was rushed into production because they were eager to make the films on the back end of this and they had like a time frame to do that. So the whole of series 7, they basically had a month less prep time for scripts, for post-production, for all of it. Now, I don't really know where you forward season 7 of the next generation. I think it is potentially the worst season of Star Trek in terms of hit rate. And so I think maybe that rush production shows a tad. Well, I mean, it's complicated by the fact that Star Trek, the Next Generation, takes a couple of seasons to work out what it's doing at all. And, you know, I think both series one and series 2 have some good episodes, but generally speaking, it was a big relief to all of us when series 3 came along and there was a kind of sense that they knew what they were doing. It raised a flaw improvement in quality, I would say. Yeah. the pillar effect. Yeah, yeah. So the floor is raised quite substantially and so is the ceiling, I think. And where is Michael Pillar at this point? He's chipped over to DS9 in the beginning of season 6 of the next generation. Yeah. and leaving Jerry Taylor, Brandon Bragger, Ronald D. Moore Irish, Stephen Bear. These are really good Star Trek writers. So, and I think you said to me before, season 6 is where you can kind of see the rot starting to set in. It's a little bit hard to tell because when I look back at the list of series 6 episodes, there are some incredibly good ones. There are some absolute classics there. I rate Series 6, actually. generation. I think it might have been at the time that I, Australia had a very, very weird history of getting Star Trek on television and trying to watch it was actually a bit of a pain and it came out very, very late and then it was late at night and shown out of order and all sorts of nonsense. Like it was a bit of a problem. But I remember watching series 6 for the 1st time and seeing a lot of new producer credits and things at the beginning. And maybe it was just that, you know, series 5 had been so good. And it just might have been that new Star Trek effect, you know, oh I'm not sure about this. But looking back on it, I think it's a really strong series. Whereas series 7, I think, feels a little bit exhausted. It feels a bit played out. A little bit exhausted. Every other episode is reunions with long lost family members. For family members coming back from the past. Ron Moore says in an interview that they just didn't know what they were doing in Series 7. They have no plan. They basically were making a series of television in order to get to the movies. And remember, they were concurrently writing Next Generation and Deep Space 9 and the movies. And we know from another franchise that if your attention is spread across several shows. The quality dips a little bit. And I think that probably is the case here. I mean, there must be in pre-production for Voyager at this point as well. That was happening too. No, that was happening too. Yeah, so that's a lot to juggle. Yeah. And I think maybe the show that's on its way out is the show that suffers because that's where you take your eye off the ball a bit. I think too, possibly, and we will see this when we start watching this episode, that the show probably now feels that it can rely on audience goodwill towards the characters to just get us to watch Star Trek things where they're just chatting with one another. Well, they can rely on your goodwill towards the characters because you bloody love them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I want to kind of quantify when I say it's the worst season for me because I think season one is worse than season seven. But they didn't know any better in season one. Whereas they absolutely knew better in season seven. Yeah, the show had hit highs at this and they knew, you know, a formula for success. Yeah, and you can tell that, you know, like at the same time Deep Space 9 is starting and even though it doesn't find its feet immediately, It is sort of straight away more interesting because there's new things to do. And they haven't quite worked out exactly what new things they can do, but you can see them exploring the territory. And there are some very strong episodes. There are some very interesting interviews at the time where the 2 seasons where TNG and DS9 were concurrent with each other, where the TNG crew were looking at what was going on over at DS9, because remember they poured more money into that DS9 pilot, and they knew what was going on over there, and they weren't happy. They were like, okay, you know, like, we're the show, you know like... I also want to say before we go into descent. Season 7 also produced low decks, parallels, what's that amazing Riker episode, the Pegasus, all good things. They still had it. They just had it far, far less frequently than they did before. Yeah. All right. Well, what do you think? we get started? Well, we've got an hour and a half worth of TV to watch. We've been had. All right, so I will count us in. Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off. Now, this is super weird because I think this is a brilliant scene. Like it's really, really great. It's hilarious. It's really funny. So we've got Stephen Hawking as himself. He's turned up to Guest Star, which I just think is wonderful. That's a little thing that makes me happy. Do you know, Brent Brent's minor says that this was the highlight of his entire run working the next generation was the day he got to work with Stephen Hawkins. Yeah, that's brilliant. And hawking is great in it as well. You know, like his mobility and stuff give him sort of very limited ability to kind of react, but his smile when he... Not the Apple story again. He also gets he gets that incredibly funny line to Einstein, where he says wrong again, Albert, which is a proper physics joke, and I think it's just adorable. What the fuck is that with Albert Einstein's makeup, though? So he has played or will play Einstein again. I think that he's their kind of go-to Einstein guy. But why they cast a younger man and put him in that much fucking later. I mean, it's Star Trek, right? They think latex... It's... Feltric makeup can be pretty good, but that is not good. I've only seen one worse piece of old age makeup, and that is in the X-File series 2, where they aged up Mulder and Scully. And honest to God, the makeout came about a metre out from their faces. Like they look like bloody mutants. Yeah, they had they had mutants in the X-Files that look less like mutants than them as they were outfeeble. No, it is a very, very strange choice. And so the teaser obviously has to be about what the episode's going to be about. And I think that something's happened here because this scene is played like the teaser. I expect that we would go into the opening credits from here. But in fact, for the only time in the show's run, we actually then go to this scene on the bridge, data's leaving the holodeck now and heading off onto the bridge. And look, we're getting the opening credits, which would normally happen after the, after the title sequence. It's the only time this happened in the entire franchise. I think in Berman Trek anyway. Right. Yeah. No, and it is clearly because they've decided that that sequence while it's fun, doesn't actually do anything to establish what this episode is about. But thank God it's there because it's the only bit of fun in our episode. Well, I'm not sure about that. I think there are one or 2 other fun moments. And I think too, that they could perhaps afford to rely on the goodwill that the show had at this point. And the fact, look, it's not just being made for fans either. It does have a general audience. Like, it's... It was a big hitter in the ratings at this point. And they basically said they could chun out anything and it would get good numbers. Pint of did, you know. And they prove that, yeah. But whilst you say yes, you absolutely can rely on the goodwill of the audience that you've built up, should you do that? No, here's this Matt painting that we've seen a 100 times. Oh, no, don't even, I love the map. Look at that. The beautiful sky rolling across and then everything else is still. And he is another generic next generation era set as well. But look, so there's blood all over this woman's body. I'm a I think this woman. Which is quite nice, actually, because I tell you what, I said to you when I watched this. It all felt a bit sanitised and a bit clean. So it is nice that there's a bit of bloodier, you know. Yeah, I mean, Star Trek is a bit sanitised and a bit clean until sort of discovery season one where there's blood all over the place and people being tortured and stuff. I love those. Hang on. Do they not have the credits in this then? Yeah, no, they come later, but they come really quite late. So he's going to open. So are they trying to suggest this is a bit like a movie doing the credits early? No, I think that they have just... I think it's a late decision probably. Um, And you don't want the credits distracting you from a big action scene or anything particularly tense. Oh, it's a Borg. Who knew? Oh my god. I mean, how, okay, that camera shot there. The way it lazily goes across to the door. Like, that should be a jump shot. so undramatic. And it's now that the opening titles are here, that last scene going into the opening credits has to hit, because that's what the tease is for, and it is so leisurely. No, it's really not very good. And I think a lot of the direction across this 2 parter is very like, oh, God, it's... Oh, is it? Is it a singer or someone? Yeah, but do you know what Alexander Singer? Do you remember the finale of DS9 series 3, the adversary, when the changeling's on the Defiant? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He directs that and that is tense and claustrophobic and amazing. Maybe someone had a word with him after this. And that was made, that was, well, it was only made a year after this. If you don't learn how to direct in a year. Yeah, but you might. Who knows? But then like we said, remember, they had a month less to prepare for this. So maybe just it was just rushed. Move the camera, quick, get over there. series six. This is the end of series six. Maybe he's just telling. Yeah, sorry. Yeah. Maybe. Maybe they're all a bit tired. Now, we can't hear the fabulous next generation theme tune that's playing right now, but do you know what? It's one of those themes, right? Where I've heard it so many times and it's so engrained in my childhood. There's so much nostalgia involved with it, but I think it's actually quite good. But I think it's probably actually quite shit. Well, it is certainly better than what they were originally going to go with the Dennis McCarthy one. That was the original untitled Star Trek project. How dare you? How dare you? That was our placeholder theme while we were in pre-production. Yeah, you see, we almost rolled with that. Very close. So this scene, you see, this is an action sequence, a very poorly directed action sequence where you don't want the opening credits over it. You don't want us to be distracted by the opening credits and it's short and you don't want it to straddle a bunch of scenes as well. So, do you know, with the action right, Ron Moore says, I've got an interview here in my fabulous next generation photo book. where Ron Moore says he was writing dynamic action into the script right? And then he was seeing the rushes coming through, and it's these ridiculous shots of people like coming out from a console, shooting going back in a console, and it's just so boring, and he was like I wrote it to be really dynamic. And interestingly, when he went on to do Battlestar Galactica, he built in an extra day into the shooting of every single episode. So this is done in 7 days. Battlestar Galactica was done in 8 days, specifically, so they had a day for the action to make the action as good as possible. No, because this is this is kind of bad and it needs to be better. And there's no real sense of where anyone is and what's going on. And they're artificially inflating the stakes by doing something I'm talking over a very important scene because this is Data's 1st emotion. Stop it. It throttles this Borg. And then so we get to... I'm sorry. I'm thinking the way he's going, stop, stop. It's just very very camp. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what he does. He goes camp when he's going evil. So, So this has now done its 1st red shirt, and I don't know that Star Trek the Next Generation has ever done this before, but Ensign Carelki or something comes down. We've never heard of her and she gets shot dead. There are 3 red shirts. She's the 1st of 3 red shirts and of course they're wearing gold because they're security in Star Trek the Next Generation. I think there is red shirtery for our next generation. I don't think it's unique. I think that it's not something that they've lent into in any way as much as they did with Star Trek, the original series. It's not really a thing. But I think as well, with NextGen, they would probably try and characterise them a little better to make the deaths hit as well. But this is that I mean, we don't know that person, do we? They're absolutely original. Well, there's an episode, there's an episode called the bonding in series three, I want to say, which is about a red shirt, like an archeologist who dies on an away mission and the whole episode's about that. What was that? Did you see that Matt painting that just came up again? It was exactly the same shot now. Barry Lett 7 got two. You don't you don't use the same effects shot twice because people then start figuring out how you did it. Yeah, I think we know how they did it. Lazy. Very lazy. I can't ever notice we've completely skipped over the fact that the Borg are here and they're just a bunch of autonomous robots now rather than, well, there is something super creepy about them in because... Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, in this, they snarl, the captive Borg later on is enumerating how to kill people, like how do you kill a Klingon with your bare hands, how do you kill a person with your bare hands? You have them. Any humanoid alien Star Trek character could have those lines. Like the thing that was unique about the Borg was the fact that they didn't have any emotion. Yeah, that's right. So, so, it's not prima facie a terrible idea to, to unsettle us with the Borg being kind of feral. Like why are the Borg behaving like this? That's a reasonable mystery to set up. And I do think that the way that they've sort of dovetailed that with data's acquisition of emotions is pretty good too, because that's been a running thing, since what, brothers or something? Is it brothers where Sung gives, like, um, law makes off with the emotion chip that was uh, designed for data? That's the one, yeah. yeah. And really clever as well. You've got Brent Finer playing 3 characters, I think, in that. Oh, talk about shitty ageing makeup. Holy cr... The worst they ever do. Do you remember that Admiral in series one? Too short a season. He gets progressively older and his face gets more mutated. Bigger and bigger. That's the latest... I think this is, you just mentioned data, so I think this is probably a point where I should drop something that's going to lose us half our audience. as far as I'm concerned. And that is, I think he is a okay character, but I think this show is far too obsessed with data and he really isn't that interesting to me. So I think that when this was 1st cast, the idea is that it's a space procedural, it's Star Trek. And if you think about original Star Trek, the only action, well like the 3 main characters, you know, um, uh, Kirk McCoy and Spock are interesting, not really because of their character concepts although maybe Spock is, but just because of the performances of the actors, right? The 3 of them work really well. And the chemistry between the 3 of them. The chemistry and the fact that they're opposing viewpoints being represented in this sort of group of people. Do you think they're doing the same thing here then? No, they don't seem to set up 3 people. They do want a bigger regular cast from the start. Yeah. But they set data up to be a little bit like Spock in that he's an outsider who kind of, but whereas Spock is contemptuous of humanity, not quite, but, you know, conflicted about his own humanity. Data has this sort of different relationship. And Spock's super serious and data is very childlike. Don't get me wrong. I think data as a character can work, and I think there are some stunning episodes around him. A measure of a man. The one when he has the daughter, the offspring is really good. Data's days really fun. But I feel like, and it's like 7 of 9 with Voyager, you know, it's an interesting-ish character, but they just, they're obsessed with the character. And then you get to the later seasons and it happens with that and it happens with 7 when they just sort of run out of things to do. And then, you know, and so now we're doing evil data. And then in a couple of weeks, we've got data's long lost mother coming along. And then, you know, halfway through the season, we're going to do Frankenstein with data and then we're going to do masks with data and it's just like, oh, give it up, you know, like, he's all right but they're bloody obsessed. And I think Brent Spiner is a really good actor and I think he's got a near impossible task to deliver emotion without delivering emotion. Yeah. And he excels at that. Yeah. Oh, he... Oh, let's pull one out. Now she should have been a regular because the way she grabs Picard's nuts every time she sees him. Well, do you remember there's that blonde admiral in Picard who tells Picard to fuck off or whatever. Shut the fuck up, didn't you? Yeah, imagine if that had been Kachev, though. Now, she could have got away with it because she's tough as nails. But you know what, right? Picard's such an arrogant. The fact that she emasculates him so much. These scenes are just a joy, aren't they? Well, so except though, the problem here is that this is just telling the viewers at home what happened in Iborg. And now you would do that with a previously on Star Trek, The Next Generation. Now, they only ever do that for part 2 of a two-parter. But that's routine on television now. and I think it's an improvement. And Well, because this is all exposition, isn't it? It's all exposition, except there's a moral dilemma, right? But who cares? Like the moral dilemma doesn't properly land because... But Nathan is Admiral Nachev. Who cares? Yeah, no, no, she's fabulous. Look at her hair, isn't it? I know. She's really great. But Picard is clearly in the right here and she's in the wrong. Like once Hugh is a person, you can't poison him and send or infect him. Like that was the plan. Remember the plan was to store a shape in his memory that would like a computer virus, essentially, that would kill all of the Borg. And you kind of think, well, we're not going to do that. Like, this is Star Trek. We're just not going to do that. And not even the kind of debased Star Trek in series one of Discovery would just, well, they were going to blow up the Klingon homeworld, I guess. But like it just would never have happened. So it's a kind of stupid fake dilemma and it doesn't go anywhere about the episode. I do remember the scenes between Picard and the Borg where he's basically telling him, you are a Borg. That's all you'll ever be. he's properly, seriously angry. Can I this is your moment of comedy, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But so Councillor Pervy Troy. No, well, he's been watching porn to see if he can rouse an emotion and her reaction is so great. And part of the problem with Deanna as a character, when she starts off, she's such a good girl. She's so boring. She's super boring. And and like... It's what we said before. Do you remember the high concept alien characters? They try to do that. where she was, you know, always hearing people's thoughts and things like that. And now at this point, she's just marina certis having fun, you know? Well, I reckon she properly becomes Marina Syrtis in 1st contact. And there's pissed. Yeah, yeah. There's bits of marina certis shining through and she's dumped. She gradually dumps the accent from series one and just does her normal English accent with it just a... Jellico's got her out of that ridiculous dress. And she looks sexy as hell in the uniform. Yeah, they should always have had that. It's just that Roddenbury was such a sex pest, you know, that he wanted everyone in sort of, I don't know, tiny pants and things. Um, It is um, you know, there is a thing about Councillor Troy and section, because in Sub Rosa, that classic episode where the Crusher has lots of orgasms with a ghost. There's a fabulous scene where her and Troy are in those. Do you remember those leotards that they work out in? And they're doing all these bizarre moves and then she's going, you know, oh, I had these amazing erratic dreams. And Counsellor Troy. I like, oh, tell me more. No, no, it's quite fun though. Because you don't get a lot of that in an extreme, so it's quite... She's all about sensuality, isn't she, Counsellor? Is she like said chocolate? Goddess of empathy. Oh, God. Oh, can we do that one? hilarious. Yeah, I mean, I really like her because I like Marina. And so like when they turned up, for instance, in Picard's season one, they were great and it was lovely to see them again. Don't even pretend to me that that was Councillor Troy and write it. No, that was just that was Marina. That was the free one. just hanging out. reactors. That's right. South California, wherever they were. Yeah, yeah. Nothing wrong with that though. So it's interesting that talking about the emotion ship here aren't they? Yeah. Because Brandon Bragg says, they introduced it here, so they could play about with it in the movie because then he gets the emotions full time. Do you know what? I think he's less interesting when they give him emotions, you know. I'm not sure that I like his performance as much, like Brand's performance as much as data with emotions. And in generations, he's frequently a bit of an asshole. Is it because we've become used to this very childlike, lovely data? And then suddenly he's a bit, he can be a bit nasty, a bit sarcastic. Yeah, but it's not that. I don't think he's quite as charming as he is. Like, I just don't think he's quite, yeah, it's charmed. We like dates as Pinocchio. Don't we? Yeah. But like in that scene, like part of the problem with that scene that we just had, and look at how leisurely this is. So we've had a scene of Admiral Nache of just talking to Picard. Now we had a scene of data talking to Deanna. Now we're all kind of standing around the bridge and there just isn't the urgency that this needs, I think. And, you know, there's a sense in which we're trying to give it some scale by having all of these systems around here on full alert, but we never see any of them. And so it is just talk. Even the enterprise is very stately going across. I mean... I can't now, but no, everyone was tugging at their uniforms out and I watched them interviews recently where they were all lamenting the fact that that horrible fabric always creased up and they had to spend half their day, tugging it. Because, wait, Rick Berman insisted that they always looked as cleanly ironed. But they had to do it all the time. Yeah. Well, they don't have the 39th century fabrics that they have in discovery these days or whatever century it is. Oh, do you see Picard getting angry there? I don't want excuses, number one. I want answers. He says, sorry, instantly. He turns around. There's just a little moment of conflict, but we're not going to have it. There's going to be no tension. He's just going to be super nice. They should have kept Jellicoe. And he said to him, oh, anything else, I've told you to get out you know? But, I mean, this speech, again, is just rehearsing this thing from a previous episode, we'd been here. Do you think they think we need this, though? like we can't remember. Well, I think that they do, but like, it's it's clumsy, I think. The other thing too is I think that scene between Deanna and Data wouldn't have been as necessary if that opening scene had been better directed and better acted by Brent. So if it was clear to us, I think it is clear to us that he's properly angry, although he goes a bit camp. Like he doesn't seem dangerously angry. I think this is a better actor to seem, though, where he's in the holiday because he's trying to create data. And there's absolutely no anger in his voice and he's just saying stop it, stop it, stop it. But if we had seen him experience pleasure. If we had seen how satisfied he felt... No, no, no, I'm not saying, you know, but if we had seen him feel properly satisfied at killing that Borg, that would have been a shocking thing. Whereas what they're relying is the line of dialogue, that last line of dialogue in that scene where he says, I believe it was pleasure. And so telling us rather than showing us is the problem and it is a, well, interestingly, in episode two. There is a scene where he's torturing Geordie and he does seem to be enjoying it and it's super uncomfortable to watch. So maybe maybe it wouldn't have been... Well, it makes a difference whether he's torturing Geordie or killing a Borg, like, go for it. Killer Borg, you know. I just think the ball seems so much less interesting. Yeah, they do. I mean, initially the, the, well, it's difficult because what do you do? Do you bring them back? So this is our last chance at a big season ending 2 parter. The previous one, the very 1st one that we ever did was best of both worlds, and it has rightly gone down in TV history as one of the best end of season, you know, like of any type of show. And all the other shows are doing it now after that. Well, a lot of people, a lot of shows say this is our best of both worlds because they have that big game changing clipout. I think this is trying to do because it's building up to a cliffhanger where in best of both worlds it was Picard that was bad. In this, it's data that was bad. And it's like, we're going to bring down the federation and in the in the best of both worlds. We're going to go to sector 001 and take down the earth. What went wrong then? Because best of both worlds is amazingly good and it's bolstered by rock solid characterisation throughout and a sense of like impending doom. Yes, that's precisely what it has and what this doesn't have. This doesn't have any sense of urgency. Now he's... Just think about this on the holodeck. You know, like, it doesn't feel like there's any stakes, does there? No, at all. So it's the planet Oni Arca 3 that we couldn't possibly care about and we never actually see. And, you know, like, um, and and the colonies in this sector who just seem to be inhabited by dunderheads who can't tell what's a Borgship and what isn't. You know, like and who we never see. And so it's all peril that's happening to people that we don't know about. Whereas we have the ball cube heading to sector 001. They met both as well, so much. Remember, there was the whole thing about Riker being offered another ship. Yes. That was super interesting because it was like, where's Riker going to leave the show? And then at the end of the episode, Riker's got to make the decision. Oh my god, is Picard going to leave the show? Like, you really cared about what was going on. You know data's not going to stay bad. They're not going to get rid of data. They're not going to have him as this great villain to take down the Federation. You know at the end of episode 2 is all going to reset and it'll be back being Pinocchio on the bridge again. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's right. And, and, you know, with a, with a show like this that isn't serialised where everything, every episode ends with a return to the status quo, what the interest is not, It's like a, uh, It's like a Doctor Who cliffhanger or something, you know, like it's not, is the doctor going to be killed at the end of the episode? It's how is he going to get out of this? And that's what's interesting here. How is he going to get out of it? But, you know, I think you kind of know it's going to be just some hand waving. Yeah, well, and that's, you know, science explanation. Yeah. And that's going to be another problem and we'll get to that, I think. I mean, do you remember the best of both of us? I was talking about a superior episode here. But what was so interesting there was that whole plot about Riker taking on the Melbourne, then the Melbourne is destroyed in the 2nd episode. So had he done that? And it just adds all this weight. and guess what? That was written by Michael Pillar. Well, and also you've got Elizabeth Denahey there as Commander Shelby. Is that Shelby? Oh, my God. Can I just say can I say the line, please? Go on. Excuse me, commander, but you're in my way. She's so good. She's gotten the Nache of effect of grabbing the men by the nuts. But also, also, so you've got this is Riker going to leave somewhere comfortable in being, so another red shirt went down, by the way, handsome. We're about to find out. He's Ensign Mitchell. actually played out from the best of Franklin. Franklin is dead. He was looking, he was looking, he was so funny. We should have commented on that. He is standing in the background of that scene, trying to find something to do. But he's in like a dead space because he needs to be able to fall back. Yeah, yeah. He's doing little reactions and everything. He gets my award. the fabulous woman who's at the con? Oh, she's lovely, James. She gets lines all the time. Is that killed her off? That would have been unforgivable. Yeah, no, they won't do that. I remember that sequence playing out with the Borg appearing on the ship in best of both worlds and it was directed by Cliff Bowl and it was tight close-ups. It was vastly edited, and then they took Picard at the end, so they had massive stakes. Yeah, yeah. It was just dreary, that sequence. Yeah, that's using up running time. And then again, you really care about that man who fell back. Well, I did a bit. He was handsome. Well, he was cute. Oh, no. There she is. But she does a very strange acting choice here where Picard. Really? Really, Nathan? Well, um, like, I think the Gates McFadden is charming and she's likeable in real life, and I think that he's a, there's a Bajoran there. Well, they weren't into Federation. Oh yeah, of course there's some Rowe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, like he says, wake him up and she says it's going to be risky. And then he says, just do it anyway. And she says, all right. And it's kind of like, why are you playing it like that? You know, like it's like, oh, well, you know, okay. I spend every scene that Gaze McFadden is in asking the question why are you playing it? Look at, she just stands in the background, they're looking like a zombie. Well, she was pressing some buttons on her tricorder just now. I don't know what quite what she's doing. She was playing Tetris. I mean, you know, maybe she is charming. I think she can be quite charming in like, you know, like the poker scenes and scenes with Wesley, where she kind of has something to cling on to. The 2nd she's just like the doctor or like delivering plot information or having to emote in any great way. I'm sorry, it's out of her out of her ability. I just, let's just think about data's day where she teaches data to day. It's her best scene. It's so wonderful. Do you know why that is? She's a dancer. Because she's a dancer, not an actress. You know, I like her as old Beverly in all good things as well. I think that there's a more relaxed performance there. I'm surprised she wasn't in Picard, you know. Oh, series 2 is coming. Who knows? It would be great, wouldn't it? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. But more of that, like the older bit. Oh, she is the older Beverly now, isn't it? Yeah, that's right. But like it just seems like an acting choice that she's made that she's going to be concerned and caring and that it ends up just coming off as sort of fairly wooden and uninteresting to listen to. Do you know what's happened here, right? Is that we've had... A brief action sequence and then a load of talk. And then a brief action seat. Well, that's Star Trek's generation, though. Well, it is, yeah, but I feel like they did learn how to structure and give momentum to these season finales. Like, do you remember a call to arms, the DS9 season 5 finale? And I think that rivals best of both worlds. which builds up to that huge action sequence in the station. And then they read, they take the station from them. Yeah, yeah. So it's got it's got massive ramifications. Like, I think maybe they learnt lessons from descent and episodes of this. Like, Times Arrow is kind of cute, but again, it's very mundane. Oh, except that it goes somewhere that Star Trek hasn't been to before and it has a charismatic guest actor and there are stakes that involve Data. I think it's really fun. And I think, excuse me. Excuse me, there's only one actor that's worth talking about in Times Arrow. Mr. Pickett? I need to be talking to you. She's wonderful. great. Do you remember... What jealous Oberon? Barrous depends. What's her name? So yeah, Mrs. Carmichael. Mrs. Carmichael. Now, here we have my favourite type of blocking where one character is speaking to another character, the back of another character's head. So that we, the viewers at home can see both of their faces. I do it all the time, you know. I'd never address someone directly. I just turn my back on them and just look at the wall. Yeah, exactly. And here, I think, is one of the big problems with the episode. And it is that this Borg is trying to seduce data and and does it successfully. We don't see the, well, not to fuck him. No, but to seduce him to the dark side, right? He's trying to, he's been left behind, essentially, on the bridge in order to do this, I'm assuming. That's my head cannon. That's the plan. is to get in there, get inside Data's head. And here he is talking to Data about how much he enjoyed the emotions and the emotions here are sort of characterised like a drug, you know, he would kill Geordie to get more of them. And that's the big kind of reveal. And Brent is doing a reasonably good job here, I think, because he looks a bit distressed without dropping his normal data persona. That is hard to do, like kudos to him. That's hard to do. Yeah, look, I mean, he's visibly emotional there without not being like data. Later on when he shows other emotions. He goes all camp and is a bit like a slightly more restrained version of law. And throughout, like data has wanted to experience emotions like that, has been a thread throughout the entire world. So it is plausible that he would do anything for that experience. But here's the problem. We actually see a close-up of the Borg's arm where he activates this control on his arm and a green light flashes and then it starts having this effect on data. So all of this conversation is, you know, it doesn't need to work on a kind of normal level because there are space reasons for data turning to the dark side. And then when it's resolved next week, spoilers, they use a technological solution rather than moral persuasion. And I think that's more boring. So you think it would be more interesting if data made the choice? Yeah, without being forced. Yeah. Yeah, of course. Yeah, it would. It would. And that's easy. That's harder to do. Oh, I still think it, I still think it would be plausible. Like, it is something that he has yearned for from the 1st episode. He says, I would give up anything to be human. Yeah. Yeah. And see, the trouble is that we don't have time. Well, maybe we do have time. Maybe if we weren't standing around just. We've been talking about Onyoka free for the last half an hour. They've mentioned on yucca free about 15 times. Yep, we haven't even seen the last 10 minutes. Dreadful filter they put over it. Oh, it's like this red filter to make it look like it's a really hot planet. Yeah. Well, I like that that's an effort. They're doing something at least. Trying to make it look. Oh, look, now, look. It's on your screensaver now that we can see a shot upwards of the fabulous bridge ceiling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is great. It's a very strange set. Worf hasn't done much in this episode, has he? No, well, he got the last 2 parter, didn't he? No, the previous one. the one before that. Do you know, it is a thing, you know. I think it is the Law of Diminishing Returns. Best of both worlds, fantastic redemption. Great Times Arrow, good descent poor. It just kind of got worse as they went along, wouldn't it? It's funny. TV has largely dropped this or am I wrong? Like certainly Discovery and Picard. Neither of them do cliffhanger. Super. Yeah. There was a shocking development at the end of series 2 of lower decks, which is almost a cliffhanger. But, and I guess it's a love letter tonight, he's trek, so it can do that sort of thing. I quite like it, though, you know, the, the, the, and the cliffhanger into the next season. Yeah, I do like wrapping up a story, though. I mean, I think wrapping up a story and maybe a surprising development at the end is not a bad thing, but I also think you don't want to rob your series opening. Well, you know, you know what you don't, you know why they don't do it anymore, don't you? It's because they cancel shows left, right, and centre. I don't want to cancel it on a cliffhanger because that has happened, isn't it? Roswell and things like that that ended up with cliffhangers. Alf. What was the cliffhanger there? Alf gets taken away by the US Air Force to be experimented on. That was never explained. Oh, no. He's on some table somewhere dissected. That's right Oh, wow. Hopefully. Barscape was the most famous one where season 4 ended on a whopper of a cliffhanger where Erin and John were both kind of disintegrated. Oh, God. And they were absolutely going to pick it up in season 5 and then they cancelled the bloody show and there was so much uproar from the fans. It was that TOS fan campaign again. They got a miniseries to explain it all. For God's sake. So are you out there listening? If they cancel your favourite show, make a fuss. Right. Can I just talk briefly about how much I love Geordie? So he is sitting in the back here, he's got his own little engineering station on the bridge. And I think that he is absolutely one of the franchise's top hitters when it comes to the delivery of exposition. Uh, you know, is a much coveted role and um, And only certain people can do it particularly well. I think Terry Farrell's very good as well, actually. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's something like Geordie is not, you know, this is not a show where people are very strongly characterised. And mostly what we're interested in is what their special skills are so they can solve the space problem of the week. But Geordie has a sort of relaxed, he just delivers it convincingly, you know, as if he knows what he's talking about. It's funny, isn't it? Because he's not the engineer of the star, is he? He's not a cop officer. And he becomes the engineer in series. At the beginning of series too. In series one. Do you remember they were writing all this like giive dialogue where he was like, woo. Yeah, on the originally, very strange. But they also had that rotating series of chief engineers. They decided that they didn't want a chief engineer in the regular cast and then they realised that was dumb and they really needed one. He also has beautifully kissable lips. And so I would literally watch anything, any dialogue coming out. I think he's really, really good. He's a bit of an unsung hero, I think. There's a bizarre disparacy, though, between who they've cast and how they write him sometimes, because Geordie La Forge is supposed to be this like schmuck who can't get a girlfriend. And Levi Gordon is this incredibly charismatic, beautiful man who probably has a line of women waiting outside of the studio for him. And so when they do these episodes, whereas, you know, can't even get a date with a hologram. I'm like, I'm not buying it at all, you know? Oh, here we are on yucca free. So is this only Arca 3? It is, and we're, is it? Yeah, I think so. So that building that we're going to see is real. It's fabulous, isn't it? I think that's a terrific find there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You think there's people out scouting places, like, hang on, my God, we can do this. Yeah. And I think, um, you've made enough poxy waterworks, they keep using for Starfleet headquarters. That's sedate building with the fountain outer from. well, you know. But it's nice to see them on location. I mean, we were bitching about TOS a few weeks ago. Well, I think that's an unfortunate trade-off with Bourbon Trek is that the sets are so impressive. They pour a lot of money and it's on DSI is what, they pour so much money into the sets and the extras and the makeup and everything like that, they don't go out on location. I think it's like, yeah, 5 or 6 times a year, you know, very often it's all shit now, isn't it? setbound. And it's something that Discovery has been able to remedy a bit. I mean, a lot of the time they're on the ship, but when they go to a planet. Lower decks goes out on location all the time. It's amazing. Yeah. What's going on now? Jordan Picard are talking about 4 man away teams. I mean, what the hell? Oh, but who will be in command of the enterprise, Joe? Oh, well. There she is. Oh, no. Dr. Bev. Do you know what? Her eyes are stunning, aren't they? Isn't she beautiful? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, wow, I'm going to be distracted by her beauty and ignore her terrible acting, but I'm not. I think that she's very likeable though. I am a bit of a fan of Gates and she just seems like a nice person. Whenever they lean into the Picard and Beverly Crusher. She's automatically more interesting. They do that, you know. Except the episode of Series 7, we're attached where they're on the planet together. And it's actually ripe for the 2 of them to fuck. Like, they're stuck on the planet. One of them is going to die. You think they just get on top of each other and say, right, well let's do it. This is our one chance. of it. Did Jakotay and Janeway bone in that episode? Wow, okay, so they looked longingly at each other across a table and Picard, sorry, Chakotay tells a story in metaphor, of course about, you know, animals or something, tribal animals that found themselves, you know, alone and desperate and, you know, seeking company. And then she stays longly at him and they hold hands across the table and it cuts. So you don't know. So they bone during the commercial break. In the next scene, her hair is in disarray. Ah, there we go. There we go. But she makes the joke. I'm so sorry. about that episode now. She makes Kate Mulberry makes a joke about that of there's a monkey in that episode climbing around in the trees and she goes on far more interested in the monkey than I am in Robert Beltran. Came over is a legend. So cool. Yeah. So, like, the women of Star Trek have a way of emasculating. Gee, look at that shot of... Troy from below. She I think she looks fantastic in that uniform and these these hair extensions. That building is stunning. It's so good, isn't it? It's like a retreat. And this is really nice as well with the like the vast landscape of hills. It's very pretty. I just don't like the filter. I'm sorry. It feels very cheap. Well, because it just looks like Southern California otherwise. It still looks a lot like Southern California. And it is an attempt to make it an alien planet. And, you know, these days, they can do... Yeah, it's incredible. Yeah. Yeah, it's a really good find. I don't know how to tell you this, yeah, but there are only 3 minutes of this episode left to go. And I don't feel like they've built up any kind of momentum or tension at all. No, no. So what did we have? We had the opening action scene, which was really badly directed. We had the the incursion onto the bridge. We've had data disappear, I guess, which we didn't notice because we were too busy talking. And now they just turn up here in this actually, it's a reasonably being said. Yeah, it's a recently bear. looks like a game show set. Look at it. shiny floors. Well, I constantly complain that Burman Erow track has no reflective surfaces and look, there's a shiny floor. There's just something spectacularly wrong about this whole cliffhanger as well. I don't like the ball coming in, all chitter chatter because that's just not the Borg. No, that's the point, though, isn't it? They come in and they yelling and stuff and making animalistic noises. And so it's an attempt to do something different. It's just a dumb attempt to do something. Well, if it's an attempt to make them scary. It had the reverse effect on me because I'm just like, well they're just... I mean, it looks like there's a lot. Oh, and look, here's the third red shirt. Whoa, down he goes. Oh my god, his face. I'm only a day player. Don't shoot me. Oh, here we go, law. Yeah. Actually, look, there's a rare moment where Deanna uses her empathy skills correctly. So usually she says, oh, you know, like I can't detect anything from him. But she just says, no, that's not data, and I think that's pretty great. And she can't detect data either because that's established, I think. So she is just going on the fact that she's watched the previous episodes with law in them before. But just everything about this, Cliffhanger, rings false. And the line itself, the sons of soon together again, and together we will bring down the Federation. No, you won't. No, you won't. We're this ragtag bunch of Borg. Are you kidding me? I mean, and that's the end. That's the end. It's very exciting. Yeah, so that was an episode of Star Trek. that's about all we can say about that. It had Star Trek things in it. It had robots in it. It had Technobabble. Absolutely what we're here for. It's not great though. Is it? And I don't think we thought it was great at the time. I think it was worth a try, but I think there's a lack of real urgency and a lot of standing around talking. And that is Star Trek, the Next Generation's failure mode. And in fact, some of its best episodes are, a lack of real urgency and a lot of standing around talking. But this is a bit low on ideas. And although the stakes are is data going to kind of lose his innocence, because it comes pre-field in with the answer, no, you know, like what are we doing? What's he going to do? Oh, no. But as well, as well. Like, and I think this is like a lottery with Star Trek. i.e. is this episode going to be about a character I really love or not? Because if it's not, sometimes you're in a bit, if it's about Harry Kim, you're usually in a bit of trouble, you know, I'm not that thrilled on data. So whether data is going to be bad or not, I don't care. And you pair that up with the kind of shitty ball that they've got in here. Plus, the lack of anything seeming to happen whatsoever. It's just a big yawn fest. All right, shall we go on with episode two? Let's I've only got one thing to say before we go in. Previously on Star Trek, the next generation. Thanks, Magell. All right, I'll count us in 5, 4, 3, 2, one, and we're off. You see, I think that we could easily have afforded this. Like I said, last time, we could have started with Iborg, you know previously on Star Trek and not had all that exposition. You could do it a little bit from Q-Hoo. A little bit from best of both worlds, a little bit from give the whole thing some context, you know? There was one episode of Buffer, you know, which did a clip from every single episode, which got faster and faster and faster. Yeah, that was clever because I think it was supposed to show that she she was done. She'd had enough. Was it the gift? It was supposed to be the series finale, wasn't it? the season 5 finale. Yeah. So the idea was this is what's happened in Buffy up to now and this is the end, you know. Yeah, yeah, this is why she's happy. Dynamically directed action sequences again. And he is Croesus. Our new Borg heavy hitter. It's not the most riveting of guest characters, is he, Crosis? No. No, I mean, it is, you know, like they've clearly decided that it's going to be interesting to see the Borg behaving out of character, but it turns out it's not really. Yeah. He's got a proper science fiction name though, because he starts with a heavy consonant, doesn't he? Yeah, yeah. process. Yep. So I believe, because memory alpha tells me that there are only 11 Borg because that's all the costumes that they had, and so they're always... They've done a good job there then, because that looked very convincing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I did think that it would be cheaper to duplicate them than it would be to make a whole heap of extra board costumes, particularly in their last year. I mean, if they can if they can superimpose 11 to make it look like 50, well, why don't they just make up three? Well, that would be harder, I think. And a lot of these are not effect shots. So that shot there with the 3 crew members and a bunch of Borg in the background is just all the 11 sort of crowded in crowded in behind them. You know, I think it's worth noting Brent Spiner's performance as law and as data because they're both evil at this point or misguided or whatever you want to call it, but they're very different. There's like a sarcasm and a sense of humour to law, whereas data is still kind of a bit emotional, but with a bit of a scowl on his face, you know. But he is absolutely differentiating the 2 characters. Well, like, though, a few weeks ago, we had Robert Picardo pulling off the same thing and just doing a better job because I think we agree. He's a bear actor. Yes. Yeah. Sorry, guys. Yeah. Yeah. Oh no, I think and the same with Jerry Ryan, who's another iteration of the same character, the idea of someone who has this sort of fractious relationship with her own humanity. And I think she's a better version of the character too. Absolutely she is. And she plays, she can play those scenes kind of emotionlessly, but with subtle emotion. It's delicate and beautiful. I think watching Jerry Ryan is one of my favourite things in any show that she's in. Including Picard. She loves being in Picard because she doesn't have, you know. Well, she literally gets to let her air down in that, doesn't she? Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's having a full-blown relationship with a woman, isn't she, in series 2. Well, I don't know. I think her and Raffi got together at the end of the at the end of series one. The final emasculation of Chakotay. She shipped him off. Oh, great stuff. But I think law as well. Like the Borg, law is the diminishing returns effect. I think he was very interesting in data law in series one. And it's one of the standout episodes of series one. It's very well directed and he's super unpredictable and violent. There's a scene in a turbo lift where he kicks a shit out of wharf. And it scored and directed in such a dramatic way. And because war supposed to be, you know, the muscle of the next generation. And with each subsequent appearance, he gets a bit more camp and a bit less threatening. And to this point now where he's just a panto villain, isn't he? And look, I love a panto villain. Like, that's not a problem. I don't mind if Star Trek goes camp. In fact, I wish it would do it more, particularly in this era which is a bit po-faced. I bet you love that episode in series four, Devil's Jew. Don't do it. Oh, God, yes. The great camp goddess that comes down. Adra. She's so great. Well, whereas Altra is quite fun. Yeah, you know, she's a total diva. I don't know. I just don't find law very beguiling here. Yeah, yeah, I mean. He's, it's just Brent being Brent, you know, like that's Laura is essentially Brent, I think. And it's supposed to be like, like, um... There's conflict between data and law because law wants data to actively choose to portray his friends, doesn't he? And that comes up a couple of times in this. And he puts him in a situation where he has to hurt one of his friends and data won't do it. And I can kind of see that they're trying to do some sort of sibling drama. It just doesn't come off. No. It could be because they're a pair of robots, you know? Yeah, yeah, but again, you know, they're people and we establish that very early on. They're still both people. I don't know. We'll get there because I actually think those scenes are actively unpleasant to watch and probably a mistake. And like, I think, is it Brannan Braga, someone in, you know there's interviews in the memory alpha, page, and it talks about how great it was to get them to go somewhere darker. But I don't think that Star Trek, the Next Generation, can support that. I mean, I do think sometimes when they do go dark, I think you said to me the other day, you're not the biggest fan of chain of command, but I really, really like chain of command and the places it goes, which is very unusual for the next generation. Yeah, quite unpleasant at times. Yeah. And I don't mind TV that makes me a little discomfited. I quite like that, actually, TV to push me a little bit. But next Gen's default mode is we're off on a jolly adventure. Yeah, in this in this lovely space cruiser. Yeah, well, you know, like, I think Battlestar Galactica Battlestar Galactica, which has a sort of darker tone, kind of generally. And I'm absolutely on board for that. I think it's great. Like you, you couldn't have a bulltar. in the next generation could you? Like that character would not work within No, no. this ship. No. Someone sort of morally ambiguous. They're all very, you know, upstanding. Yeah, yeah. I mean, like you could barely have a quark on this, you know, like everyone. Okay. Because I remember when Court came along, everyone was like, oh yeah. sometimes doing wrong. Is this right, you know? Oh, no, here we go. The Beverly Crusher subplot. So there's something about this that I quite like because it gives Beverly something different to do, she's not just waving a medical tricorder around and looking concerned. And so she gets to be a little bit more dynamic. And has she been doing, like, I know Deanna's been training? put the doctor in charge, though, like... She's a bloody doctor. Yeah, but she's, you know, she's a commander. She's got the 3 peers. I've never seen her on the bridge before doing this role ever. Deanna's doing some kind of thing, isn't she? Oh, she's doing her test training, yeah, to become... After disaster, when she ends up. There's that wonderful shot of her crossing her legs on the captain's chair when she finally decides she's in charge, which is awesome. Nathan, can I ask you a question? Yeah. Are you automatically going to give any scene with Gaze McFadden and Marina Service a pass because they're in it? Yep. Yep. Even the one when they talk about their boobs firming up in insurrection. Oh, I... I've deleted that from my memory. Really? Yeah. that happen? Yeah, yeah. And then Data overhears them and goes and says the same thing to wharf, you know, don't you find your boobs affirming up? It's tremendous. Why are they talking about that? Ah, you know, they're getting younger because of the planet on insurrection. Oh, that's written by Brannan Bragg. written by a man for sure. I bet it's awful. Yeah. Yeah. Well, she doesn't, she looks very comfortable in the captain's chair, you know. Yeah, yeah. And what I like is, so you've got Tate, who is a science officer who hasn't done this job before, and you have Beverly being kind to her, and, you know, expressing, like, doing leadership in a sort of kindly, encouraging way, and and I kind of like that, and I like. She looked like she was going to give him a massage then when she went out to his chair, didn't she? Is that supposed to be a ball ship? Well, yeah, but you see, it can't look like a normal Borg ship because it would have blown the reveal in episode one. And so they have this unidentifiable ship. We never see one like that again though, do we? No, and it's possible that, you know, you know why that is, don't you? Because it looks terrible. This is a bit of shit, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, also, the cube was so unique. Yeah, it's brilliant. Well, except isn't there a cube? Where did we have? We had the spinning cube in the corp of my move. Yeah, yeah, see. Everyone makes their best ideas from TL West, I'm telling you. Wow, they're going really heavy on the colouring on the filter here, aren't they? It's really red. I think this is but this is supposed to be dusk now. I see. All right. We're later in the day. Now, I can't help but notice. I was watching this, that the Beverly Crusher subplot is 80 Technobabble. and 20% characterisation. And unfortunately, that's not the, the, the way I like it. I prefer it the other way around. No, I actually think that, you know, they're on the bridge. Technobabbles kind of a thing that's going to happen, but I like the interplay between her and then when white guy, tactical officer comes back up from the planet and his name is Barnaby, you know, and there's a bit of tension there. Barnaby, very middle class. Well, the enterprise only takes the best or the best, you know. Oh, dear. So we look like we're in a museum here. What is, you tell me, what is the point of that subplot? Is it just to have an action sequence? Well, yeah, I think it's just an eat up running time. I don't know, I don't know. I mean, to be fair, you know, most episodes have a B plot and it's just, it's just doing that, isn't it? So it's not like that's not without precedent. Yeah. But I mean, they empty the ship out, you know, and say they're addressing that here. I don't know. I don't know. Oh, now, Data, look, is being very unpleasant towards Geordie. He wants to take his visor away. Yeah. Yeah. And like it does lead to some comic business with law where law tries it on and is sort of cute about it, but it is just a bit unpleasant, I think. Like, these things are not fun to watch. Also, as well, I'm just very aware that there's incredibly dull lighting occurring here. The direction is very flat. There's nothing really visually striking going on, is there? And I said to you, because you're always mocking the music of 90s trick. Yeah. And I said, well, the music and this was, it was like wallpaper. It was so dull. And they kept doing this thing where there would be no music at all. And then there'd just be this little bit of music 5 seconds before the end of the scene. Just add a bit of drama. No, no, it's to tell you that it's time for the commercial break. It's, you know, literally what the what the music does. There's one or 2 moments, and I do think that the music overscoring the cliffhanger like is pretty good. But yeah, I just think this is bad news. how this is being realised. Like, I think, and I'm not saying all next gen is, like, boringly realise, it can be really dynamic, but I think at this point, No one's doing their best work. No. But, like, it's kind of a problem with Berman Trek, and and there's no real visual refresh in the entire era, and you can tell that they're trying to get away from it by moving to a different era in enterprise and giving the show a different look, but it is just the same old look. And I think after 7 years we're a bit tired of it. I remember when Alan Croeca. came into Star Trek in the assignment in DS9 series 5 and he was like the 1st new young director that they brought in and all of a sudden he's doing all the big hit in episodes, the DS9 finales, the openers, the 2 parters, and they're really, really well directed. It's like they found somebody. There was a bit different from the norm. You know? And I think and they did, they had like a pool of directors, like paramount directors that they just called upon. Nes Lando, you know, and people like that. Yeah, Cliff Bowl. That absolutely. They could knock them out, you know? And they would be competent and they would be watchable and they would do it in the time. Jonathan Frakes is another one, actually, like Alan Correka, where you know, suddenly they realised this actor. could be a really fantastic director and they just gave him one of, I'm thinking for episodes like Cause and Effect. Yeah, yeah. You know, past tense part 2 in DS 90 directed. And that's, it's, it's cinematically good. Yeah. Well, he's he's still going. I mean, he directed a very recent episode of Discovery. Actually, so that's that's law putting on Geordie's visor and joking with him. And here, you know, we do get them very strongly differentiated because even though data's evil. He's not particularly amused by law's shit, you know. Yeah, his law's got these massive shoulder pads, like Joan Pollard the early 90s, isn't it? 93 or something. It's a whole thing. But they're like padded, aren't they? Wonderful. So we had this giant threat to destroy the federation. And the Borg nearly do that. Remember that it, the buildup to best of both worlds and the aftermath. There are a few mentions of the fact that the fleet's depleted after the Battle of Wolf 359. It's so funny though. isn't it? Because when you see that minefield of ships. It's like about 10 ships. And then you go forward about 5 seasons and they're filling it full of, you know, 100,000 CGI ships. Yeah. But you get the sense that something historical is happening, that the, that the game is changing. Oh, sure, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whereas here, because we're on Oniaka 3, and because no actual threat is posed to the Federation at all, you know, like he talks a big game for the Cliffhanger, but then what are we doing? We're like dicking around with replacing their brains with, you know, filaments of something. Like, where's the threat? What's happening? Within that cliffhanger, it's all what you would call word peril wasn't it? Because there's no they don't actually say how they're going to do it. They're just like, oh, we're going to do this. And that's enough. Best of both worlds. Like they've taken Picard. The fleet's on the way, like it's all in motion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think it's worth. We don't get any better idea in episode 2 of this as to how they're going to bring down the Federation. You know, it all gets lost within the data law stuff, which I think they think is more interesting. And in the interviews, like, um, they say that, that like, we lost Hugh in this because we were so focussed on data and law. I'm like, well, no, you lost the bloody threat that you were trying to build up in the 1st episode. Yeah. And now here we get the reveal. So it's it's Picard, Geordie, and Deanna in a cell, and they're talking about the fact that Geordie, before his Pfizer was taken was able to detect a carrier wave that law is using to manipulate data. And now they're talking about the space things they're going to do in order to reboot his ethical program. And that's boring. That's dreadful because the reason that, like, he hasn't been persuaded. He's been, you know, a beam is causing him to behave this way. And like if this was a metaphor, like if there was some sort of strong thing behind it, you could just about excuse it because it's Star Trek, right? Like, you know, but that's the only thing that's underlying this. Nothing convinces you about why he's behaving this way. Whereas do you remember, I'm going to keep making comparisons to the best of both worlds, because that's where this works, and this is where it doesn't. Yeah. In the 2nd episode, um, the real meat of it is, um, can Riker step into Picard's shoes. And there's a couple of scenes between Riker and Gynan, where she's she's like, well, I've let him go and you've got to let him go and you've got to do what's right. Just kill him and save the Federal. and it's it's really fucking brilliant character drama. you know, of which there is a dearth of here. Well, look, to be fair, best of both worlds doesn't quite know how to get out of its cliffhanger. And so the restoration of Picard is a bit boring. It is we stand around in a lab talking until he gets better. Like that is. Do you not remember the high angle shot that goes down on the tear glistening on his face? Like, it's full of gracing... regardless. And even if the ending is some dreadful bit of take that level where they all send the ball to sleep. It's linked into the idea that they are like a hive mind, you know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's clever. It's clever where this is just basically Technobabble, data is all right again. Yeah. Well, no, so here's Jonathan Del Arco as Hugh, and he was adorable and very sweet in his episode, Iborg, which is what, series five? He was terrific in Picard as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like just bringing him back to kill him off is upsetting. Echip. Yeah, well, and E-Chep. Yeah, yeah. Um, And so it's actually a bit shocking to have him angry, but I kind of don't like this. And I think, I think the, well, I think that the, that what happens in Iborg, where 1st Gynon and then Picard, a grudgingly, um brought to the point where they admit that Hugh is now a person. And so he is someone that we have moral responsibilities towards. We can no longer infect him with this thing and send him back to kill him, the Borg and, you know, himself, presumably. We have to respect him and, you know, he has to be allowed to determine what he wants to do. And here, that's the cause of all this because they've done that. And the Borg could no longer cope, then law sweeps in and does it. So, and it's a little bit as well, like what they do to undermine the ending of yesterday's enterprise. So instead of having a heroic death, which yesterday's enterprise provides Tasha, a much needed heroic death because her previous death was sort of senseless and pleasant. She survives, we discover only to kind of become like a, she's forcibly married to a Romulan and has to have sex with him and has a child and stuff. And that sorted any of that. That's horrible. It's an excuse to bring Denise calls me back. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And bringing her back was great. But, like, undermining that. You don't like the fact that their act of compassion and forgiveness caused all the problems. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, that is a bit problematic, isn't it? Yeah, I just I dislike it. They should have just killed him and all the morgue, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I, I, that's the moral here. Well, I don't think it is because I think that the 1st episode lands very heavily on the idea that they've done the right thing. So you've gotten achev saying you did the wrong thing to Picard and then you have Riker, who is going to be right, come in and say no, that was the moral thing to do, even if it was potentially costly. But then the story's saying something different. Yeah. Now the Borg have individuality. So Law was able to, and the, the idea was that this was supposed to be a take on like a cult leader. I think that gets lost completely. Like I didn't really get that from this, but reading the interviews, that's what they were going for. Well, that same with the young man, the young Borg who's having downs. That one scene. That's the one. But you know what, though? When I was watching that scene. I actually thought, and it would have been a better scene. I thought he was like calming him down to get close enough to kill kill him, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I thought I thought that's when it was going. And it was just like, oh, okay, well, I'll be in your cult. Okay. Okay. So this is this is incredibly unpleasant to watch. Because, oh, my word, he's just stuck that spike right in his head. Yeah. And like, it looks stupid. There's little spikes coming out of his head and stuff like that and he's wearing those dreadful contact lenses. And... Like what should happen here is that data is persuaded not to go ahead with it. That, but instead... Because of his love for Geordie, because he does have emotions in a sense. You remember the way that he describes love, they bring it up again in the boat, in the most toys when they think he's dead where he says that his kind of neural patterns get accustomed to having someone around or something. Like, he describes friendship or love or what it's like to miss someone. So he does experience emotions in a real sense. because he loves Geordie, you know, and I think that's super clear. And that should be it. That's the real emotion. But because it's a technical reason. Yeah, exactly. stops it. It guts it of any kind of emotional work, doesn't it? Yeah. But also, I think it says something stupid about human emotions as well. Like they're kind of like something that it's the same with saying he has an ethical program or, you know, like he's, you know, Song has written some subroutine that tells him the difference between right and wrong. And there's a chip you can put in his head to make him have emotions. And I think that emotions aren't really like that. I mean, I think that's a really interesting thing about Star Trek in general, though, is that it will kind of go one of 2 ways in a climax. It will it will go down an emotional route, say, I don't know, the drumhead where evil admiral satay stands up and proclaims her racism or family where Picard breaks down in the vineyard or something like. Or it will go the techna babble route, and it will just be a hand waving explanation. Like, I don't know, the game where they come in with the light which unhypnotizes everybody or something like that. And I absolutely know which approach I prefer. Yeah. Well, and I think in an in an episode that's about data gets emotions, you know, just to have it be data's behaviour. Yeah, yeah, data's behaviour is affected by a carrier wave is so much less interesting. And look, we're talking about phase modulation circuitry and stuff here. Well, Geordie has things poking out of his head. It's not a really, you know, morning scene. It's how the action's just dried up. Yeah. This is the season. Oh, no. They're all just standing around. Yeah. And like, Star Trek is that. We watched, I think we've mentioned this before, but you and I watched Way of the Warrior together. And I was astounded by how that was just people in rooms talking because my memory of it is that it was sort of massively filled with action. But the difference between where the Warriors, it feels like things are sweeping, it's witty, the characters are, there's like lots of um, duo character scenes that are fantastic. You're introducing a new cast member. And then there's 10 minute, like cinematic action sequence at the end, you know. Well. Oh, right. Not sure it's cinematic, but yes. Very well, expensive. For Star Trek, that's an expensive action sequence. So I actually like this plot better, isn't that ridiculous? The B plot. B plot. Yeah, because you've got you've got confident white guy who is a little bit of an asshole and he comes in and kicks Tate off the tactical station. And Beverly is kind to Tate because Tate has been helpful before and he wants she wants to encourage her. So she keeps her at the science station kind of doing something. And then they work out a clever thing using sort of techno babble that we've heard before. You know, like it's not groundbreaking or even particularly interesting, but it's not actively annoying. Like the... I don't know. My brain just swears. There's just so much techno mobile and I just can't handle it. I just found it incredibly. No, no, no, they're firing on each other. That's... And I'm going to make a very facetious comment, but Gates McFadden does not rise out of a chair with anywhere near the grace and poise of Kate Mulgrew. Well who does? I make a noise. I make a groaning noise when I rise out of a chair. I'm surprised. She looks very comfortable in the captain's chair. Yeah, yeah. And look, like she's got a bit of a steely, you know, she's kind of holding a jaw clenched and stuff like that. She's tense. She's quite an emotion. the 1st time they put Troy in the captain's chair. know how that ends. So at least at least Dr. Bev gets to have an action sequence and you know, it's a very positive experience for the Enterprise. It doesn't end up face down in a forest. Yeah, no. Look, I'm a big fan of disaster, which is actually where Deanna ends up in the captain's chair for the 1st time. And the triumphant way she sits down in that chair is just spectacular. I love that episode. And again, it's because he puts Marina on the back foot and so she's not just serene, you know, ethereal goddess of empathy. It is, it is frustrating, though, in the next generation. I think they probably had 2 characters that they could have utilised way more than they did. And Troy and Dr. Bev are very often doctor and counsellor. Yeah, yeah, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And there was an attempt to give, um, maybe the problem is that Wesley leaves or something. I think those early seasons, you know, where there's her and Wesley. Those things are, they have like a naturalism to them. It feels like they're actually mother and son. And later on, they're trying to do something interesting with Troy by giving her a romance with Wharf. Yeah. Oh, it's just abysmal. It doesn't work at all. So what I like here too, is there's a reference here to a late episode last season, which was really terrible called Suspicions where, remember, it's like a murder mystery. Murder hero in space. It's really poor. But the technobabble thing is a metaphasic shield, which enables a ship to pass through the sun or a something. And so she remembers that and uses it to destroy the Borg ship because they have metaphasic shield again. I'm sorry, if we needed all that exposition about eyeball. We should have had some suspicions. No, I mean, all you need, remember that time you were in that murder she wrote episode? Yeah, that was important, wasn't it? But it's a solution that only Beverly could have come up with, and I kind of like that. Okay. Yeah, because she knew. I'm feeling I'm feeling your love flat people. I'm not there with you, but I'm feeling your love. There's some good visuals as well. Like she doesn't, you know, we can't just shoot the ship and so what are we going to do about the ship? And, you know, we destroy it in a special effect sequence that's recently reasonably well. Do you know, that episode's suspicious. It's Whoopi Goldberg's last episode of The Next generation. That's upsetting. She's least in generations. And to see, this should work. This should work and it doesn't. I'm ready to irradiate your existing brain cells. I mean, why? that's horrible. Let's not watch that, you know. Ugh. It's not even great dialogue though, is it? No, but like it's, you know, you've got Geordie talking about the past and trying to kind of waken some sort of memory in him, and that doesn't work, but what works is interrupting the carrier wave and that's much duller. That's a much more boring resolution. Normally when they lean into Jordanian data. That really works. I remember in Times Arrow when they find his head. And Data's, like, got the head open and he's operating and he's like, are you all right, Jordan? He's like, no, I'm not. Yeah, it's just there, you know, and they're talking about Data's death and it's it really, really works. Yeah, Geordie is so underestimated. I think he's really great. He's really... I don't, I, well, I think, I think Livar Burton is underestimated. I don't know that they write Geordie all that well. Well, because he's, you know, deliverer of techno babble, but he does it with a great deal of charm, I think, you know, and he sells it like he means it. I wonder what that building is, you know? I think it's a religious retreat of some kind. I did look it up. Yeah, it belongs to a university. And I think it's used as a religious retreat of some sort. So, again, see, this scene, what we are seeing now is data and law talking about the plan to kind of replace everyone's brain with mesh or something and, and, you know, like, um, and again, well, I know, we're going to destroy the federation, but instead we're just irradiating everyone's brains for some reason. Like it seems sort of pointless. So it doesn't seem to be like what the episode promised it was going to be about. And again, data gets manipulated, not because law is persuasive but because law has some LEDs under his fingernails. Press the button. Yeah. Yeah, and again, data's misgivings about torturing and killing the 3 humans that they have in captivity. Don't come from the fact that he knows and likes them and that he loves Geordie. It's that, you know, there, it's the carrier wave or whatever. So if it's all just technical manipulation, then we're not learning anything, we're not exploring the characters. No, that's right. It's as if aggressing them at all. And this is disappointing. Yeah, he's got emotions. This is the point where they could actually genuinely give data some like emotional progression. Yeah. I think maybe the show isn't up to it. Like, I just think the show maybe can't manage that because the characters are... Don't they turn the chip on permanently for the films? Isn't isn't he? Yeah. Oh, no. There's a really hilarious scene in, is it insurrection? It's, it's um, maybe it's 1st contact. Oh, yeah. Aren't they walking through the Enterprise Corridors in 1st contact and Data complains about being anxious and maybe Picard says maybe you should turn off your emotion chip and he just tilts his head very quickly and there's a computer noise and his emotions turn off and that's like that's a proper funny scene. Um, Yeah. But like, like when we, when we chipped into the movies and it, and it is all, you know, on a much bigger scale and it looks way more impressive. It's much better directed. It doesn't feel like the next generation anymore to me. And then you add data with emotions and it really doesn't feel like the next generation anymore. So Tate and Barnaby just had their confrontation, because Tate has come up with the idea of how to destroy the Borg ship, which I think is terrific, you know, because Beverly was kind to her and encouraged her. There's the Borg ship exploding in a sort of solar flare, which looks pretty great. That was all right. Well, it's great. Yeah, 4 Star Trek, the Next Generation. Remember, they're mostly using stock footage of the Enterprise from, you know, There was one sequence in the corona of a son, you know, where DS9 took out an entire shipyard. In a spectacular CGI explosion. Well, they weren't able to do that quite yet. But yeah, you know, like I thought that that was pretty good. It paid off. You know, it showed Beverly as a worthwhile leader, fostering talent, being kind. I can't help but notice that Geordie is almost dying here, and Patrick Stewart and Marina Sertis barely look concerned. Nobody looks like they're that bothered. Oh, look, there's a concerned look for a marina there. She's holding his hand. Bless her. Look at that. She looks bored to tears. What are you talking about? She's just picked up her meals and boom. That was Marina's board face. No, that was her concerned phase. She's like, are we doing the movies yet or what? I get to be good in the movies. Can we get onto them? You reckon she felt when she got that script and she was like, yes I'm in charge of the ship and then she got to the bit where it crashed on the platform. For God's sake. You know? But don't you think that her drunk? Like she must have just loves that. priceless, priceless. But you know what? I don't remember a single thing that her and Dr. Bev doing nemesis you know? No. Well, much about nemesis, though, if I'm honest. Robert Picardo steals her big scene in... Yeah, great. It's really good. And to be fair, I think Kate Mulgrew steals. Genesis, when she turns up as Apple Janeway. For goodness sake. Yes, so what's happening? This is the final confrontation now. Yeah. So this is where laws basically gives him one last chance. You know, can you can you kill your friends? And he doesn't. Okay, because he's a different, the carrier wave's been interrupted. And this very disposable. This is our C plot, I guess, which is Riker and Worf and Hugh sitting around the standing cave set, kind of bitching at one another. There is that weird visual of the Borg that have been experimented on that have gone wrong and they look really super upsettingly horrible. Like, but again, what, what's that for? You know, is it's just to show that law is secretly evil and doesn't care about the Borg at all? I suppose Well, essentially, we are essentially killing time until date is okay again. think so. If there are no narrative stakes. And there are no character stakes. Why are we here? Yeah. Yeah. Look, I think that there is a tendency in series 7 for the stories to be a bit more like this. They're just a little bit. They're a little bit less focussed and a little bit less high concept. And so there does seem to be a sense of just, like it's just okay to hang with these characters and that'll be enough. I went on and watched liaisons after this. Yeah, you too. Oh, series 7. And I was laughing along with it. There was this spot where Wolf beat up the ambassador and Troy had too much chocolate and Picard was down on the planet with some dreadful twist about the male female ambassador trying to seduce him. And, you know, it worked great, but it was hugely entertaining and fun to watch. In a way, this just isn't. Hugely entertaining and fun to watch is great. I think that's a properly great episode. It's not, you know, inventive. Well, it is. No, I think, you know, it's really good. But this is all hand this is all handhold into the last season. Yeah, yeah. But this is supposed to be our, like, you know, come with us on an adventure in the last season of the next generation. Oh, you see, and again, the thing is just resolved by Hugh running forward and preventing, does Hugh like data? Does no, Geordie's his friend. Why is he running for to save data? They said that in the interviews that they couldn't believe that they wrote this episode. And Renee... Edge of his name. Thank you very much. He wrote eyeball and he wrote the teleplays for dissent one and two, and he was like, I cannot believe I did not feature a scene between Geordie and Hugh, because that was like the focus of eyeball. It's ridiculous too, because both data and Hugh regard Geordie as their friend, right? And neither of them is completely human. And they don't even have a scene together either, did they? No, it's very strange. It's the sort of thing, you know. It's the sort of thing that you remember when you tied together the A and B plots of forget me not in Discovery. Yeah, yeah. It's the sort of thing that they would do now and take the time to just tie it all together thematically and in character. Whereas I just, I just feel like they were just sort of churning out scripts at this point. Yeah, yeah. I mean, this is a bit B movie and again, we've said before that Star Trek has a lot of B movie and it's DNA. It's not a bad thing, that it's a bit... Wonderful. Fabulous woman who turned up on the bridge, remember? You know, purple boots. So much fun. But so is Law Dead? can't even remember. Is he dead? He can't be dead. I don't think we see him again. Do we, after this? That's the 1st time I've actually noticed the direction of this episode. Oh, he's deactivating him. Because that's, I mean, that's a green screenshot, isn't it? With the 2 of them there with... Oh yeah, it has to be. Yeah, yeah. Unless they cloned Brent. I can't really see. I can't see the scene, can you? I can see a bit of fringing around laws here, I have to say, if I look closely. And again, the I love you thing, like, is that a thing? Why? Every time you turn up, you try to manipulate me or kill me. That's it. Well, mind you, to be fair, it does sound like a family reunion in my house. That's right. As Tilly would say, that's just a Tuesday night at my end. Well, that's it. all over with. Yeah apparently. The threat is that the threat to the Federation is over. You go to irradiate 3 people's brains. Do you know what might have been nice, yeah? What might have been nice is, like you said, with current day trek if they'd have just done all this as one episode? Like, you probably have got enough here to fill 45 minutes of really decent material and tie it all up. And then maybe do something really bold. Like start series 7 with something like the lower decks episodes. I mean, completely offbeat and and they wouldn't do it. No. But I think they want, I mean, they so desperately want to replicate the success of best of both worlds, that they're going to do it, and they do it all the way through Deep Space 9, don't they? There's a kind of, oh, not every season. Not every season. Most seasons they shine end with a statement, though, of kicking the plot onwards into a dramatic new direction. And in fact, the one time they do genuinely replicate the success of Best of Both Worlds is Voyager Scorpion. Yeah, yeah. It's just fantastic Star Trek. and it's David Livingston directing it and it's just creepy as fuck throughout. Um, and you got the fabulous one. 84, 72, creatures going along and that. I mean, it opens with free Borg cubes being destroyed. It's like a 102nd sequence. That's right. And that's just the teaser, isn't it? Then we go straight into the open trade. 10 seconds long, it is. It ends on a like fantastic cliffhanger just like the best of both worlds. No, it is. Like he's been torturing him, but because he was torturing him for space reasons, it has no effect on their relationship. So, you know, LaVar does a little bit of a facial expression to kind of indicate, yes, I've been tortured by you, but that's it we're now back to normal I hate to say it, but they're both being upstaged by spot the cat who's washing himself in front of them. Memory Alpha lists 3 different... Oh, no. Just or have his own page. No, but in the in the credits for this episode. Oh, of course it does. Oh my god, yes. Oh my. Well, that building we were shooting around also has its own page on memory alpha. It's an invaluable result. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Does all the technology have its own pages? I think so. There's that shot. That's a labourer. 5 foot model. Well, we really kind of got bored of that, didn't we? There was some sort of resolution. Oh, that's right. We put the thing away for safekeeping so we can use it in Star Trek Generations, the old a motion chip. Yeah, um, but I think we've both acknowledged here that series 7 of The Next Generation, it can work, the very next episode works on some levels. So why didn't this work? Like the energy should have been here. Not the 2nd episode or the 10th, 15th. Well, I think they make some mistakes in the scripting by setting it somewhere that we don't care about, you know, like saying that the stakes are the destruction of the federation, but not showing that. You say it one last time the name of the planet, please. Oni Arca 3. Thank you very much. So boring. Every time you talk about specifics on spaceships and planets and things, oh, man, it gets me going, I'm telling you. So it's time for us to choose our next Star Trek episode and Joe, I want you to justify the decision you've made about which series we're going to select from. Hello, yes. Well, um, I would like us to return to um, the high point of the Star Trek franchise, Star Trek Enterprise, or potentially just Enterprise, depending on what season we're watching, because I think there's probably more of worth within the series than perhaps we suggested when we watch that fucking awful episode of Season one. So essentially, I want us to do an episode of Enterprise and I'm not going to stop pressing the button until we get a reasonably good one. Yeah. Brilliant. Now, listen, I'm going to reiterate one of the rules. that if it's a two-parter, we do both parts, like we have in this episode, but if it's a three-parter, we just do the one that's been rolled, even if we have to sort of explain some context. But, of course, you're perfectly welcome to reroll until we get bored, if you think that wouldn't work. So if we get, you know, part of the augments trilogy or what, is that a trilogy? I don't know. Yeah, it's a good one as well. The 2nd episode is really good. Yeah. So if we get that, we could just do it or you might say, no actually let's re-roll, but okay. I do I do need to say about the randomiser. But 2021 has been a difficult year, but absolutely, the highlight of my year has been the moments when my finger has been poised on this button, ready to see which not when you're doing it, but when I'm doing it. Brilliant. All right. Okay. Well let's have one of those moments. Okay, here we go. Series two, episode 19, judgement. Yeah, I don't know what that is. We could be in trouble here, you know, because I don't know. All right, all right. rewrite. I try again. Season two, episode 22, oh, congenital. That. Oh I know about that one. That's the one where trip. Isn't it like where they race with no gender? No, it's they have 3 genders and trip interfears. So, yeah. Tripp thinks that one of the genders is being oppressed and it's interesting. I, I think it has something to say. I'm not sure I like what it says, but it's got something going for it, and it's about Tripp, who I think, despite the fact that I hated him in Strangely World. I think he's one of the strongest characters in the show. I seem to remember this is one of the episodes where Connor Trinier shines. And I seem to remember, this is one of those enterprise episodes where the visuals are really striking. Okay. I could be misremembering that. But, um, I think that's probably a good bet, you know. Yeah, I think let's do it. Look, I would love to, at some point, do, you know, part of the Zindi Arc from series 3 or one of those sort of crazy fan wank things from series 4. I think that would be fun, but we're not stopping anytime soon. We'll undoubtedly get the chance to do that. I think cojenitors are pretty safe bet. What do you reckon? Yeah, I think I think it's certainly, from what I remember intelligently written. And it's a... 1st half of enterprise. That's not terrible. That's probably worth talking about as well. Okay, let's do it. Oh, plus triggers super hot. Okay. Sold. You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley. You can find us online at untitledstar trekproject.com, where you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel. Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb. This episode was recorded on the 1st of January 2022 and released on the 21st of January. We'll see you next time for Enterprise cogenitor.