Collective

Hey, Joe. Hi. So, we are in pretty grim territory right now in the Delta Quadrant. We are just after the middle of season six. This is the only Star Trek game in town you told us at the end of last week's episode. And how do we think things are going? You and I have a bit of a fan, you know, in Tom Selinski. He's doing these marvellous trek a day tweets and blog. He's up to this point, isn't he, poor bastard? He's about where we are now, yeah. And bless him. His 5 star reviews are a thing of the past. you know. Well, yeah. Okay, so here's what's happening in series six, season six. Sorry, I would say serious. is that we kickstart season 6 with a 4 episode run, which is about as strong as Voyage has ever been. Ron Moore's on board and he's like, right, let's go. We're going to do some serious storytelling, you know, amazing characterisation. He does one episode and says, I, doing this shit anymore. He's in the writer's room and he's going, well, why is Jay Wade behaving like a psychotic? What's the reason? And they're like, well, it's just good telly. Okay. Oh my god. I'm going to go and write Battlestar Galactica. See you later. Yeah. Yeah. Thank God he didn't stick around. We may never have got that. But then it does mean that Braga is still in charge. Right. And what happens as a result after those 4 episodes is we're in absolute concept of the week episodes right through to the end of the season. And it veers between being genuinely very good, stuff like Blink of an eye and Pathfinder. And I think the Muse is another really strong episode. And memorial and things like that. and just the worst Star Trek we have ever seen. And that's stuff like Alice featuring Tom Paris's very own version of Christine. Yes. Virtuoso, where we go down to the planet of the small people who are obsessed with the doctor singing, spirit folk where Janeway creates an electronic dildo to have sex with. I quite like that bit. And Harry kisses a cow. Don't forget that. And, you know, love it or hate it. Self would have 9 fights the rock. That could be the point where Voyager sort of sold out completely. No, that's glamorous. I'm up for that That's superb. Get the rock in, you know, before he's famous. somewhere in the midst of all of this. We have collective. Yeah. And this is on the back of many, many Borg episodes of Star Trek Voyager, where they have been neutered to the point of insignificance. Where we're bringing in a bunch of little kitty winks for the series. Yeah. So, like, I don't think that this has to be a bad episode. But I have to say... Yeah. I had to say it kind of is. And I think part of the problem is like, you know, we go on board the Borg cube and it's just somewhere we've been so many times before. And remember how I said, when we did Scorpion, I actually thought that the Borg cube, even then, even though it was the 1st time that Voyager had done it, that it was kind of a boring, it was like a sort of boring environment. It's something that had been done and it had been sort of recently done in a film. It was done incredibly well in Qhu, where they had babies in drawers, which I think, woo, more of that later. So I don't think this had to be terrible, but I don't know why it's quite so boring. And I think partly is there's no atmosphere, there's no pace there's no tension. It's just a lot of people standing around and, you know, even the action sequences, you know, Voyager always does this thing where they're sort of shouting and dramatic light on the bridge and stuff and we're having a fight for some reason or whatever boring. Yeah, yeah, they can normally do that Well, but this is so stately. It's not stately. It just plodding in the way it's directed. I think. I watched this on the 1st 10 minutes. I remember messaging you going. Do you know what? This isn't awful. It's not great, yeah. But I'm intrigued to see how this is going to pan out. This is before the kids arrive. I'm like, you know, the shit's being driven in a strange way. You know, the Borg are behaving in an unusual way. What could possibly be the cause of all this? Then the kids arrived, and then we're in sort of very lame, very lame moral dilemma territory. Because it's not even played out like a moral dilemma, weirdly enough. No, well it doesn't go anywhere. There is something that looks like... are long past, aren't they? Well, no, it's the days of I boil, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. And again, it doesn't tend to go anywhere. There is a sort of very dramatic scene where Janeway looks like she's going to do something and then she just doesn't and nothing really happens. And like a whole heap of things happen, but they're completely weightless and they don't have any consequences. And then we kill off the bad guy because obviously that has to happen and we take the kids on board. And I'm just not sure what they thought they were doing with the kids. I figured they were giving 7 or 9 a family on Voyager. Like, that's what it appears to be at the end, where she goes into the room, says good night, turns the light out. I'm like, okay, they're going to sort of play this out and I'll give them the credit that they allow for consequences. Yeah. Which is a very unvoyagery sort of thing to do. Yeah, I mean, the other thing is that they kind of want to gesture at being a generational ship, you know, that was always the idea but we know they're going to get 7 seasons, and so there isn't really time for it to be a generational ship. And they have the Naomi Wildman thing where Ensign Wildman gives birth and then, you know, a couple of months later, the child's 10 you know, like Alexander or whatever, and that just seems ridiculous. Like that's daytime soap opera kind of territory. And then we get some kids on board some other way. And like, I think, you know, just basically having echeb at the end of all this is not a bad thing, you know, I don't think that's a terrible thing. I think they've kind of fudged the consequences because 2 or 3 episodes later, they jettison 3 of the children and go, well, we just come to passing your planet. So there you go, off you go. And then they keep Egypt. But then they do a stunning episode where each of is almost written out, featuring one of the best rug pools forger ever managed to do within an episode. And then sort of each app's role in the last episode then is to be like the Wesley Crusher of the ship, isn't it? Right. Sort of the, the, the kid who's learning all the rules of the Federation and, you know, has a few moments where he is a bit of a rebel with Q's son and, you know, it's all that stuff going on. I'll tell you the problem with this, is it's execution. More than anything, and it's a massive problem with Voyager in series 6, because I'll tell you what, there are some other fun premises around this time. There's an episode coming up called Live Fast and Prosper, which has the astonishing premise of 3 people posing as Janeway, Chevok and I think it's Milix. And going around pulling comms on people, saying we're going to save your planet if you give us, I don't know, a $1000000 or whatever it is. It's so boring. It's so lead leadenly directed and weakly plossed. And I just think there is a... a relaxed feeling amongst the Voyager production crew at the moment that they know they're the only trick on the air and they can sort of churn it out for the next 2 years because they know Enterprise is coming as well. Okay. And it really isn't good enough. Because some of this stuff is good. But I think some of it could have been extremely good if the people behind the scenes were, I don't know, given a bit of energy. It's sad. It's really sad. And it's sad because this was always just time to shine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's out from under the kind of. Well, I mean, it was always sort of a bigger deal, I guess, than Deep Space 9, you know, like it had launched this new network, all of that sort of thing. And it was the sort of Star Trek thing while Deep Space 9 was off doing its own thing over here. But, I don't know. What's odd is 44 and 5 is where I think Voyages at is best, where the storytelling is pretty strong and where the execution is at its best as well. And then it just feels like 6 stars in a really strong place. And then everyone just sort of gives up the rest of the rum. Sorry, folks. So this one is directed by someone who doesn't come back. you know and there's nearly no information about it on memory alpha, so we don't know why that person doesn't come back, but perhaps it's because even, even for that production crew, this was just not very well done or not good enough. It's legend, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm excited. Should we go? As ever, you know, I'll say this every time we approach a particularly dreary episode of Star Trek. the fact that you're as miserable as I am watching it makes it all the more tolerable. That's exactly right. Okay. All right, I'm going to count it in. Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off. You know, as if to make it even worse, you know, we open with the sequence featuring... The worst rubber and the other terrible Robert, who's recently outed as a complete homophobe, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Too bad Roberts. The 2 worst Roberts, Harry and Neelix. And Neelix, I think, is doing the best job here, but this is some really, really shitty Voyager banter. And like it's so bad. And like you kind of want Neelix to be playing them, don't you? Because Neelix is smart and he survived and he was always a little bit more dodgy than he led on like early on in the show. You know, like he was a little bit more of a sort of, you know shadowy, not shadowy figure, but a bit of a con man, a little bit you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And a past and stuff like that. No, no, no. And because he's played by Ethan Phillips, who can't help being lovely and cuddly sort of thing. And so, but none of that lands, like none of that, like all of this is so boring. No one's funny. No one's saying anything interesting. Well, you open Q-Hoo with a poker game among some great characters and then you have sequences on a Borg ship featuring children. We've done all this before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I know you think Harry Kim is pretty, but... He's not a great actor, though, Nathan. No, but he, I think he's better, I'd sooner watch him than the worst Robert. Like this line and I had a full house. That's supposed to be a funny line. Do you know what I mean? Like, and Neelix has gone, oh, I've got a flush. Does that beat, you know, DuPair or whatever? And all of this is, like, who gives a shit, honestly. This is so boring. Back about, you know, Bunter, we were had a change of face of evil you know, that's what happens when you share your toys. You know what, really fun stuff? That's how you do it. Well, also, like there was a, like, you know, some understanding that the poker games in Star Trek, the Next Generation were, like had something to do with the character. They had a point every time they did it. There was a point. And it was usually geared into the plot of the episode. Yeah, that's right in the episode, you know? Yeah, and sometimes it's a little bit obvious or whatever. Like, it's not always the most sort of subtle or clever thing because it's Star Trek, the next generation. But this was nothing. This was wasting time. But the joy of those scenes as well in the next generation was that it was downtime for all those characters. where they all got to be a little bit relaxed in a way they never are on the bridge you know? Whereas this bunch practically slouch around on the bridge. There's no difference. Well, they're doing that miserable band that they do, which is just absolutely butt clinchingly terrible. It's so bad. Like, it's like the writers have never met people before. Like, how do people interact? I don't know. You know. And it's like because they're from the future and they've all got a salary. Yeah that's because they're... people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And if they've just been normal. If they've just been like the people on discovery or on strange new worlds, you know, that we just don't do the space people thing anymore in Star Trek and I'm so relieved because it's so terrible. What's the most obvious thing they could do at the end of that pre title sequence? Oh, our ball cubes come along. okay? Well, we haven't done that 15 times this season already. So has one been this season? Well, we seen a cube? No one, the episode. Oh no, that's season four. Is that season? Oh, okay. Okay. So that's a while back. Yeah, so what's happening here? Oh, yeah, so this, like this is super boring. And like no one reacts to the fact. So Harry's, there's an explosion down there, like Shields, like the camera is super static and really boring. There's no handheld, there's no nothing. Doesn't Harry Kim end up stuck in that Jeffrey Street for about half an hour? Most of the episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For ages. to show how essential he is to the story. Well, he goes unconscious and then no one seems to notice. Like, he goes unconscious and they kind of dismiss it. Yeah, see, this is fun, isn't it? Look at that. It is a bit of a cartoon though. No, I'm going to say something not kind, but I'm going to try and find an excuse for Robert Belgium. And that is because he's doing this secret, but he's done this a 100 times already. Yeah. Oh, fire photons, you know, evasive actions. How many exciting ways can you play that? So, Harry, Harry, we go, Harry, Harry, and then we forget about him and continue with what we're doing, like, no one, do you know what I mean? Like that's nothing, no consequences. Now we're about to be... I know this is an episode of origination. They know he's going to be all right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, and again, like we're about to be, I'm like that shot though, going inside the queue there. It doesn't look it does look epic, I think. Yeah, it looks a bit cartoony though, doesn't it? Now, look, this is a dream sequence. objected to in Scorpion when the camera was heading around the ball cube. No, you see, at least that that's starting to look like 1st contact, that thing where we do have handheld and we do have a fish eye lens and a little bit of distortion. And it turns out, no, in fact, we're in a much more boringly directed version of the Borg cube, the Neelix's dream was depicting. You know, what's especially galling about that little sequence there is, you know, Chakotay's there in Borg, Regalia turns around and it's supposed to be like a bit of a shock. It's not. That's exactly where we end at the end of the season. Oh, it's so shit too. That final shot of them all looking. You want to talk about... making it dog makeup. There's no drama there at all. Bulgrew sort of turns around. Obviously, she's got a bull cap on and everything. She turns around as if to say, I've done 5 hours and it's fucking makeup for this light. To be continued. And the yellow is really bad. What a bad idea. holy crap. One thing that astonishes me, this is written by this teddy bear is written by Michael Taylor, okay? He did the 1st pass on in the Pale Moonlight, the visitor.point. He wrote counterpoint. Like he wrote some of the best of 90s Trek. What happened? Yeah, oh, look it. What's but what's with B'lana's hair? Is this her season 6 hair? Is that what's happening here? Oh, she's got one of those things that gives you volume and they had a power surge on Voyage. It's sort of very shaggy. It's really bad. but I do think K-Moll cruise hair looks astonishingly good. No, I will always like her longer hair when it's tied back or when she has a French curl or something like that. I think that she just looks like a normal American lady that's American lady hair and I just think it's super boring. It's worth poisoning out as well. Like, you and I did Scorpion and we did the Raven, and there was a point in this show where they were giving Jerry Ryan consistently excellent material to do. They realised what a fantastic actress they'd had and they they actually they delivered on the promise of that pandemic by giving her good stuff to do. We have passed that point now. Well, in fact, look how boring and staid this is. This is the thing I was talking about before, the standard low lighting voyager, you know, we're attacking people kind of thing and it happens all the time. But it just is people standing around talking about a space battle. Like there's no space battle hafting here. And there's no feeling of anything. There's no pace that like the music is nothing. Like the music is so nothing in this episode. made a point of that didn't I? Because I feel like you get towards the clothes. I feel like the, the music is trying to be pacy, but it's so quiet. And it's so, so lazy. You know what, Nathan? There isn't even any rocks coming out of consoles. A lot of things, Kate. Like, here's Kate, at least, giving, you know, giving us some muscular threats, which I just absolutely adore. That's pretty great. I think we've got to the point. Going back to my point about 7 to nine. I think that we got to the point where they know she's popular, so they think if they give her screen time, no matter what they give it to do, people are going to be invested. Yeah, so like, why is Bilana, why is Bilana on the bridge? No, well, because she ain't got much to do since Stefan's coming. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. She's contractually obliged to be on the bridge this week because otherwise she wouldn't be in it. In fact, I'll tell you what, the tide is turning because Bilana gets barge of the Dead and the Muse in series 6 and that's 2 of the strongest episodes. So it's almost like they remember after a couple of seasons. Oh, yeah, we've got Roxanne Dawson here as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's pretty good. We'll give her sights. So now everyone's born of 7 of nine. And, you know, think about that for a second. Seven of 9 in Picard. How could we ever be bored of 7 of nine? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, look, one thing about this saying that I couldn't stop looking at was those 3 people standing with their backs to us, at the consoles, just, they're not even, they're not even reacting to being in this space battle. There's pork here. They're just sort of standing around pressing buttons. It's fine. They're scenery, like whatever. It looks very bored, saying it is console, but that's just too rough. Yeah, that's right. Well, yeah, yeah. Do you know what? There was at one point where you had to give a tactical line reading. Okay. And he delivered it in a very unusual way. And I just thought maybe that's just Tim Russ going, I'm going to have some fun. I got one line in this. Yeah, see, again, this should be scary and creepy, but it isn't because it's just the same old corridors. Everything's, you know, like there's no sort of particular close ups and stuff. That yellow light is fucking ugly as hell. Awful. Do you know, when we did this in a scorpion. Because you remember that was a dead cube that they were going around. yeah But it was almost in darkness. There was a strobe light going off. And there was at least a ball sort of reaching out at them and stuff like that. There was stuff in it. Nothing. So I think I've said on Untitled Star Trek Project at one point that I liked it when the Borg used to keep babies in drawers. Do you remember that you remember where they open the drawer and there's a baby in there and they go, ooh, and then they close the drawer again? So now we have a baby that they've shoved in a drawer. Yeah, like a literal baby that they've put in sort of Borg rompers or whatever. Okay. Now, whose choice was it to make the children be naked? And who put Mazotti in like, like, these pants? Like, as if they were trying to kind of make, like, sex are up or something? and she's like a fucking 10 year old. Like she's got one leg completely bare. The boys? Why are they half naked? I don't know, because we've never seen ball this naked before. Yeah, yeah. But like it's because they're, you know, not out of their mat. So the clothes is the last thing that comes in in the maturation chamber. Like, it's such a bad choice. in order for the sort of ill choices that they made from season 6 of Voyager to season 4 of Enterprise. This may have been one of the most still judged. Jesus Christ. So I'm just going to try and find out. I don't think I have anything positive to say about any of these actors. So I may avoid that topic because I spend far too much time criticising children actors. So I think the kids, like, I think it's cute that they have these twin boys, like, but were they ever going to do anything, they must have known when they cast them that they were basically doing... Did they do haunting of date? No. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So they they're being told that story, aren't they? Are they? That's at the end of the season. They must have stuck around longer than I thought. Oh, okay. Okay, but they just weren't in it. They would be off doing something. But sorry to throw in a Doctor Who reference. It's the twin dilemma effect, where they've insisted that they have a pair of twins, whether they can act or not, and they can't. Yeah. So, so it's a bit interminable. And I said this to you off, Mike, there are a couple of sequences where Jerry Ryan's given it a rule. Then the camera swings round onto the kids, sort of standing there looking like they need a bit of direction. And stays on them for about 10 seconds. Like, come on, we'll get a reaction shot out of them eventually and it's just never forthcoming. It's very... You know, they say never... They never work with kids and animals. There's a reason for that. Yeah, look, I mean, I don't think, like, the children aren't really required to do much, and it is just the 1st an e-cheb that uh, sort of interesting. The kid who plays. Actually, one thing that I did like was this weird thing that they do with Icheb's voice. Oh, the sort of distorted... Yeah, like just moments of distortion and stuff when he's saying sort of vows and things. And it goes unremarked for a little bit and then we have to mention it. And I kind of liked it. Like, I thought it was sort of interesting. But in a story... Yeah. In a series which has taken a ball character and over several seasons allowed her to become a human being again. In a series that has done all of these weird things with the Borg now to just bring in a bunch of kids. It's like, will the Borg ever be scary again? And we can't, they, they, they almost make it in Picard. I not sure they're entirely successful. Because they make them the ultimate good guys on the university. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's very hard. It just feels, you know what I said to you before, I was sort of detailing the path of how badly they were done over time. I just think this is another step in that direction of neutering them completely. Yeah. Is it that you can only do them a couple of times that there aren't that many things you can do with the Borg? That can't be right. I don't think so. I think you can overuse them and that's the problem. So they're trying to find interesting things to do with them and not much of its landing. No, but I mean, I mean, part of the problem is that the kids just look stupid. Like it's the costumes just look ridiculous. And, and they can't do the bald cat thing with the kids, like they do it a bit with the elder, like the older boys, but they don't do it with young boys and they don't do it, you know, with Marley. Like she's just got her hair. Like, I don't know. Like the Borg stopped being horrifying. Don't they? And they're not even that kind of physically gross. Because remember, one of the things I think that that 1st contact does with the Borg is that it makes them into zombies, like, and and so they're more cadaverous. Remember, they're just kind of white skinned, like pale white in their 1st experience. Wow, that would be kind of horrific here. Because the concept that these are children that have been torn from their homes and turned into these, you know, emotionless automatons, it's a scarier idea. So why is none of this scary? Yeah, and they don't even touch on it. They don't want to touch on it and maybe just having the children thing. Like, they've done it by having seven, you know, assimilated when she's a little girl. Yes, that was terrifying. That scene where she's in the shuttlecraft and they take the parents and then she's under the console and they come for her. The implication of what is going to happen to her is far scarier than anything you've seen. anything. Yeah. And so now we're doing so they caught a virus, a spaceborne virus which we can now reactivate. And remember what the virus was. Like, the great thing about I Borg. That's what it's called, isn't it? That then gets fucked up by descent is that they intend to infect hue with a three-dimensional image that has a weird flaw in it that is going to cause some computational problem. And like that's visually in, like I don't even know what that means. It's visually interesting and it's like the diagram that Geordie shows and then just how he describes it. That's super interesting. And then it turns out what they infect you with is individuality. And that's going to go back and change the Borg. And that's super interesting as well. The drama in that episode is how everybody reacts to using that. Some people are appalled, but they would be thinking about doing it. You know, and then you've got the consequences of best of both world in there as well, that seems hard and human. See, between Picard and Gynan as well. What about? Honestly. and it is high drama in terms of the, of the, highest quality. And then there's this, which has got the same idea because they do have a sequence where they, where J-Wo's holding the baby later and more on that baby later. Yeah, yeah. And they're talking and she's got like the poison in one hand and the baby in the other. She looks like she's going to go full Ahab, you know, and then she kind of goes, ah, yeah, no, maybe we won't use that like in the next scene or something. It's just like, dramatised. Is it at all? No, no. Yeah. So Harry's awake. Looking pretty. He's just very decorously, like a couple of little burns, but otherwise, thankfully, on Mars. He's got to stay looking for a see because he hit that top 100 of sexiest men. Yeah, wow. But I can't ever have him looking too, too. Pretty man. It's the only reason he's still in the fucking show. That's right. They just take it out on him by never promoting him. Please, please, can they just put it in a line somewhere in Kurt's control that he's still an ensign? You know that he's a captain, though, in the final episode, which never happened. The beats of the episode that never happened. I say, I'll pretend that never happened then. Yeah. I can. Yeah. So I want to make a proposal negotiating with the ball. We've done all this in Scorpion, like... The only thing that's different is a bunch of kids, which makes it you know, completely less interesting. And so the deflector array. Like they take, they, they're supposed to give them the deflector array, because that's what happens in 1st contact where the Borg use the deflector array, and we have those scenes on the deflector array, which are so cool, uh, but which we couldn't afford for this. It makes me really sad because the last Borg episode we watched War Scorpion. And I just think they were handled so brilliantly in that. Oh, I'm not sure in the space of 2.5 seasons. We've got from there to here. To this. Well, and it is literally because Scorpion saw a spiking ratings. This is popular. Keep doing it. Keep milking the Borg. Ooh, Nathan. Yeah. Look, look at this. This actor here playing, you know, the villain of the piece. The first. He's particularly bad, isn't he? Well, yeah, like I think he's okay. He's very babyfaced, which is actually kind of what we're going for. And they do sort of ugly him up a little bit more. Like he is looking a little bit more cadaverous and a bit more borgish. you know, with things in his head and all of that and the mottled skin, you know. No, he's just shoved Kate Mulgar up against the set there. Yeah, yeah. As we've discussed on other episodes, you know, she's got quite a temper. When they said car, you imagine what she said to him. You do that to me again. I just like the idea that she was this fabulous diva on the set you know, horrible to everyone. I know she wasn't. I like to pretend she was. I think I think this is long past the point as well, where she has beef with Jerry Ryan, because that's fitted into the show and it did help to make the show popping. And I think somewhere along the line, Mulgrew got over herself and Jeremy Ryan started dating Brennan Bragger. It was a producer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. that's right. So she couldn't be mean to her anymore. It was never his looks. It was always his role and the shield that he offered. Actually, it's quite a pretty guy, right, right? Oh, so what is happening here? Like they're just standing around describing the Borg to each other. As you know, Bob, the Borg are very predictable. Oh, no, it's so boring. We could save Harry. I'll have to say, Kate Malkra's acting ability to look concerned for Garrett Wag is astonishing. No, he's doing good here. There he is. Look, saying lines, looking pretty. That's what you're paying for. I'm doing a lot of comparing it, but I do just want to show sort of how the show's gone downhill. Remember when we watched the killing game and he was all bloody and sweated up and he was in the guts of the ship and he was... Yeah, yeah, yeah. explosions. Yeah, so there's no physicality to this, is there? You know, there's no, like there are no explosions on the bridge. You know, there's a few lights going off and stuff, but there's no urgency. There's no physicality. There's nothing. Sorry. lots going off. That's the best we can do folks. Someone on the light switch. Nathan, I'm going to say it again, though. It's because enterprise is coming and they know it and they know they've just got to ride out the next 2 years. Right. This doesn't have to be a success anymore. It's got the channel up and running. It's had its moment in the sun. They can just literally dash off some of the shows. Yeah. It's almost accidental that they achieve as many good episodes as they do in those last couple of years. And there ain't, you know, in terms of classics. I'd say there's 2 or 3 in terms of very good, 10 maybe, and the rest of you are middling to very poor. Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I watched one because I couldn't remember it and because he, you know, it's the Nazi, you know, plays the drone. Is it one or drone? Are you forget a drone? Yeah, drone. Maybe I'm thinking of drone. What's one then? One is the one... That's her on her own. It's a walking around the ship all your own. It's basically Jerry Ryan just acting in empty sets. Solid gold, as far as I'm concerned. Yeah. You've got none of the boring extraneous regular surrounder. That's it. Only the best Roberts involved. Jake May gets a scene at the beginning and the end. And in fact, when she sits down at the beginning of the episode she don't want to be around anybody and at the end of the episode she sits down with her friends. sits down with them and eats or something. So she's got a point down. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay. But like... So are we supposed to think we're going to go on the same journey with all these kids that we did with 7 of nine? because they've all got individuality, haven't they? Yeah, because they haven't been properly matured or something they haven't been fully assimilated. And in fact, there is some interesting, there's a sort of intriguing thing that that she says that 7 says about how her experiences are Borg and the striving towards perfection or whatever, that there's something that she's taken from that, that like it's a source of strength for her. Like, and and, um, the kids don't have that, you know, because they've never properly been part of a collective. Yeah, here's the Voyager crew, ready for them to join. Yeah, yeah. Like, I don't know. It just seems like a dumb idea because you've already done seven. You don't want to put 7 in a maternal role because one of the things that's interesting thing about her is that she's not just someone's mum, you know, or someone's girlfriend, like so many women on television. Um, And that she's got this sort of strong, interesting primary relationship with another woman on the show. You know, the, you know, not a sexual relationship. I mean these two, you know, acting together, you know, they're 2 of the best performance, performers on the show, they can kind of nearly make everything work. don't know. There was a time in series 4 and 5 where scenes between these 2 sizzled. Like, you didn't know if they were going to snuck each other whether she was going to throw 7 of 9 out of an airlock, like, they were tense and it crackled. This is so boring. Yeah, yeah. But this is the scene where she says something interesting. This is the scene that I was talking about. So she talks about what happens in Dark Frontier and the Raven because we see 2 versions of those, don't we? And then she has the experience in the maturation chamber or whatever, and then she finds it as, like, it's a source of, of strength now, that her what she got from the Borg is something that she depends on. And like, I think that's a bit of a recon. It's like not a very clever speech because we've never seen any sign of it. And it doesn't, it doesn't explain anything that we've seen about her, but it is odd. It is them going back and thinking about, you know, how is she going to be different from these kids? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure, I'm not sure what's about that, because I was sort of looking at the dialogue there as that played out, and I was like, there's nothing here we haven't actually seen already. Why are we talking about this again? Yeah. And I know it's because it leans into the issue of the week, this week, but I don't know. I just feel like I just feel like we're on a merry-go-round, you know, we're going round and round with this thing. And the more we go around, the less interesting it gets. Yeah, yeah. Certainly, you know, I don't think, you know, like technically, oh here we are in what's it called? not stalocostometry, astromatrics, where the big PowerPoint presentations happen. Oh, look, he's using the playing cards to mark his room. Oh, I'm like, what? What's that? It's being used literally. But but what even is it? Like, who does that? And why are we saying what cancer? What? Like, this is not, like, that makes no sense. Like, it just makes no sense. And like, I actually like the scene where Mazzotti, you know, has been collecting the cards behind him and she holds up the queen and says, I like her. I think that's good. That's a little good moment, you know, but, like, to get there, we have to go through this stupid thing where Harry, like, is just sticking cards in the wall. Like, what? What's happening? A head of a line. They just gave tube out there as well. You know, he goes, all cubes may have a sense of menace, and, but they're not haunted houses or they're not haunted. I'm like, yeah, but these scenes don't have a sense of menace. That's the problem. They don't. They absolutely don't have a sense of menace. Yeah, and I know you mentioned it. It's this yellow light they use everywhere. It means the whole thing is just overlit, you know? Yeah. You can see a bit too much that it's a tiny set rather than a vast space. And that the kids' outfits are just ridiculous. Like the kids look stupid. Like, and that's the, that's probably another sort of offbeat reference there. It's the most inappropriate costuming since Torch was cyberwoman. And anyone who hasn't heard of that, use Star Trek fans, go and Google it. Yeah, Google it or don't. As inappropriate as this. No, she's of age, so it's less inappropriate, I guess. Yeah. Now, in a second, the baby is coming back. So the baby's sick and it's it's a dolly. It's clearly a dolly because the head sort of shifts about quite alarmingly and it does remind me of the wonderful tale that Marco Lame Motels when he had the baby in covenant and the circuits went crazy and it started spasming and he was trying to act the scene out with the baby going through. And I think it has a little wobble when Janeway holds it later isn't it? It's really bad and hideous. Not as bad as that CGI though, aren't you? Oh my god. Oh my god. And so here it is. The animatronic baby. Surely there's someone on the production crew that was willing to loan them their newborn or someone on the production crew who had actually seen a baby before and would be able to say, actually that doesn't look very much like a baby. I mean, top boy, she sells it. Oh, poor Marley. Look at Marlene, girl, trying to... Oh, it's so miserable, a poor kid. And the other 2 coming behind her. The twins looking astonished, but without any astonishment as well. No, the one, they're looking concerned or and maybe, or maybe it's wind. The baby. And so the baby literally disappears. So we never mentioned the baby again. It never appears in another episode. It doesn't stop moving. It's not... And not Elaine as well. They had to redub the whole scene because the servos were literally like... We're making it a grinding noise. But the baby disappears. Just completely disappears is never mentioned again. Yeah, of course. Yeah, no, never once. And and like Braga says, oh, we it left in an offscreen scene. And it's just like, well, like this is a TV show. There are no offscreen scenes. You just didn't, they didn't leave. It's still there. Just never mentioned again. Wow, maybe it comes back for revenge or something. Yeah, see, I think these, the kid meets Harry and goes, you left these. I like her. I think that's really... I don't know whether that's meant to be menacing or what, but it's kind of sweet, I think. I like her. She looks like 7 of nine. Offer, you've got more taste for this cloying children's stuff than I do. You know, like, but like I think she's doing okay. Like, you know, I can women be okay. in detail, watching Once Upon a Time, featuring Neelix and Naomi Wildman and their fairy tale adventures in the Holodeck. Oh, Trebus and Flodder. Right. And, you know, all those scenes of Alexander in TNG season six. Oh yeah, but there's that great episode, isn't there? What's the one? Well, cost of living. That's the one that I feel was on a time is trying to do. Yeah, yeah, oh, I definitely think that's what's happening for sure. And of course, the most cloying of all, Molly O'Brien. And in my room. Rump off, Phil, Kim. that's so cute. She's so adorable. With that tiny voice. It's so funny. It's so wonderful Now, look, watch the baby now. honestly. The head, the head sort of jarringly. Oh, no, it's awful. It's gross. It's not quite as bad as that dog. Do you remember that dog they added a night in sick bass? and you're in the balls. a dog. With a hole in its head. You know, did you did you see that? Actually, it feels appropriate to mention this as well. That thing that was posted on Twitter this week about someone talking about 90s trek, saying, you know, Star Trek nowadays has a cinematic look about it, and it's not the sort of wobbly treked Star Trek of old. And I think they're not talking about the original series. No, I don't think they are. They're talking about the us. Well, I'm watching it now, and I can tell you, there's a little bit of rusty in what they're saying. No, no, absolutely. I've been saying that for ages. This looks boring. And I like that, though. I like that. Like that weird thing where he's kind of got foil on his neck or something or there's foil under his skin, you know, like they've done something. But again... scorpion. Yes, and it's really weightless because it never really goes anywhere, but I think visually that looks interesting. That's more interesting than just giving him sort of Borg things all over him. That's something new and different. Like, I, you know, I'm going to mention... But yes, quickly because DSI was doing entirely original things in this last couple of years. And they are just churning out the same bollocks that we've seen over and over again, and I just don't think it's good enough. Yeah. And but what I also wanted to say was I just came down hard on 90s visually, but actually, some of Last Day Voyager, stuff like that Frontier, killing game, things like that. They could put the money on the screen as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and even if it was, you know, like it's always going to be period CGI, it always is, you know, I reckon there are things on Strange New World, where it's kind of like, I'm going to let that pass, but essentially that's a kind of very clearly obvious special effect or that's not that great or like whatever. That's Star Trek. I think that was... Remember me last week and were those wonderful sequences of gates flying through the air towards that vortex. And even today, that looks pretty good, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I agree. Okay, what's happening now? Look, the camera is literally just in the corner of this. just... Yeah, yeah, it's just standing there looking at the fact that this boy has no pants on. I wonder if they got the rushes in them just for like, what's she doing? Yeah, she's just this is so boring. Look at that shot. Look at that shot. They're all just standing around. That is how 80s Doctor Who was sure. Very theatrically with everybody in the shot in a line. One big shot with like, you know, how or everyone in it standing around. It looks so cheesy and so shit. like 50 science fiction? If it's a... An older director, just using older... don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Don't know. Or maybe she thinks sci-fi is looks crap and stagey. Like you and I, we have talked a lot about direction in 90s Street but we have mentioned that it can be very good at times as well. So this isn't the norm. this bad. No, I think this is much worse than like that was the thing that struck me more than anything else last night. I've obviously seen this before, but this is me seeing it for the 1st time in ages. And look at that. That's really cartoony, the CGI too. Can I ask you then, because I'm boring. It looks boring. You might have been at the pub with your friend Peter yesterday mentioning that he really likes this episode. Did he say why? No, I don't know. I don't know. He says, I can't remember, but he had some good things to say about it. But I was just struck by how how plotting it is. It's boring, I think. I might ask him, you know, when this comes out. Maybe it gives me. Yeah, yeah. We demand and explain yourself. why you like this? Oh, there's an over the shoulder shot there. Yes. Whoa. But like we're not going to see the the viewscreen because that'll cost us money. Look, look, right to the corner of the set there, in that sort of alcove. No, what's happening? Is there a guy there? to the side of the bridge. There's an alcove where someone's sitting in it pressing buttons. Because we, that's how often shoot on at the regulars where they're sitting. We don't often see that, man. He must feel a little bit underrepresented. Oh dear. Oh, that was so shit. They're wobbling. They're wobbling acting now, the camera's wobbling. Oh, overloading the shield matrix. Oh, not the shield matrix. Look, the girl seems very upset about the shield matrix. Tim Ross just went, the shield fluctuations are dropping. Oh, he's dying inside. Boosting the confinement beam. He really deserves an award for this. This is so it's so miserable. Poor old Tim. Holy shit. Even Janeway got in on it, then amplify the shield pulse. I bet Bilana was like, I do the techna babble. All right. Oh, dear idea. So we're just, so this, we're all just standing around. We're all just standing around. Oh my god, like, say someone, yes, lower the shield. I reckon there hasn't been a line for about 3 minutes. It hasn't been about the shields. It's so boring. So we're kind of acknowledging that the lack of drama is in both the direction and the script. Oh, this is really bad too. Like, what's the kid doing? So this is the... To try and draw a positive out of this. I do think that Manu, how do you say his surname? I don't know. Interiorami? I don't know. But actually, he does go on to deliver... some good performances in series 7 and his relationship with 7. It does carry some emotional weight because in imperfection, which is the 2nd episode of series 7. and they're doing another, Oh, 7 and 9 is going to die. And then it's like, oh, no, wait, each Eb's going to die. And she says to him, stop it, you're hurting me. 1st is dead. In a way that... The 1st is dead. actually gives some weight to their relationship. So I remember that does come out of this. Yeah. It wasn't. I don't. Yeah, I don't think he's bad. And in fact, I remember thinking that it's a shame because the 1st character is their big kind of antagonist and it would have been good to have a strong actor as the first. I kept, you know, obviously we keep Icheb and he's a better performer, but it, you know, it did seem a shame that he wasn't given something more interesting to do and that the kid is not that great. And like, what is this? There's a whole thing about abandonment here. You know, the kids never properly feel or understand that they're abandoned and in a way, what Ryan's character, what the 1st wants is for his parents to come back and start looking after him again. Do you know what I mean? Like there's something that they could make of this? These people have lost their parents. And now they've been abandoned by the Borg, but it all doesn't mean anything to them and they're not even aware of it. Like there's something that you could do here. There's just not analogous to anything. No, no. But I've never been surgically ordered to be a Borg and then a band... No, no, no. But that's okay. That doesn't have to be that, but like you get the kids to play it and they're tough and stuff, but what's really happening is they're scared because they suspect they've been abandoned. And that's something that you could play and that you could understand as an audience member and it's right there, but they don't do it, you know. Well, I believe you see the kids again when they think Egypt's going, and now you've reminded me, they're in those very cute scenes in the haunting of deck 12 where Neelix is telling them that a story around the plasma fire, whatever it is. Yeah, about whatever's going on that week. And then they're abandoned. I did just notice then they did drop in a line where she said we've contacted the ships of their races. Yes, and we've had no responses yet. So that's their get out clause. Should they turn up? Yeah, yeah, or if they decide never to do them again. Oh, thank God, they're in close. will never mention them. Yes, yes, they've been put in terrible, terrible 90s trek casuals. Been back to the gap and bought in a job load of pretty clothes. Is Egypt wearing a wig? Or is his hair grown back? I mean, I hate to say this, but after all those miserable scenes on the ball cube. I'm so pleased we're back in the cargo bay, I've just seen some of those gray containers. I like the head taken ones. Do you know, those costumes truly do accentuate Jerry Ryan's breasts, don't they? I mean, that is... They're functioning as intended, I think. Do you know what? This was my favourite scene in the whole episode. The way she plays this for quite warmly. Off you go to bed now, can you? You know? But I'm glad that that's not what they decide to do with her because I think that's a little bit kind of... We can't have the fucking Brady Bunch on Voyager. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, no, that'd be great. But these are not the Brady Bunch. I mean, you think they would alert their lesson. All those scenes of Naomi Wildman going up to aliens going, you know, I am the ambassador of Voyager. Hello? And I was like, oh, my God. We're going to do that. Jerry's doing a little bit of acting there as the thing closes. Like, there's, she's, it's like, you know, the end of Scorpion part 2, where it's just a shot of, is it part 2, where it's just a shot of her, and it's kind of like, what the fuck happens now? Or is that the end of part? Yeah. Yeah, it's the end of part two. And it's just kind of like, well, now what happens? Holy shit. And for a 2nd she's there and she feels a little moment of apprehension about whether she can be a parent or not, and obviously it's not going to pay off because the show doesn't do that sort of thing. Nathan, I'm happy to report that this, the next episode did start immediately. It is spirit folk. Spirit folk, and it is Tom Paris in an out of control automobile on the Paramount batlog going around like toad of total going, poop poop. It's really different. Oh my god. I have to turn it off quickly. I'll say the season 6 of Star Trek Borger was not Trek's finest hour. No, clearly not. And this was, yeah, yeah. I think this fails in all sorts of ways. And it just fails because it's not really about anything. It's about getting some children on Voyager and is that a good idea anyway? You know, like I don't know. Does this go down as the most boring episode we've done yet, or is that still dramatis persona? No, I actually think Manhunt is the most boring episode because it's just got nothing going for it. Like it's just nothing's happening. It's incredibly boring. I think that this could have been something with a better director and just a little bit more thought, like just a little bit more effort to make anything land. You know, there's that revelation that the 1st has deliberately not allowed e-cheb's voice modulator or whatever it is to be fixed. Like he's aware that it could be fixed, but he's not doing it. And he's said to E-Cheb. When the collective come back for us they'll fix your voice then. So he's manipulating him. You know, but that, then nothing ever gets said of it again, it doesn't have any weight, it doesn't change Echeb's attitude to the first. You know, like nothing lands. So it's a bunch of things that happen, but they don't happen to anyone. They're not afraid to turn Janeway into a one-dimensional psychotic this season. It happened a few times already. But what I should have done was just like, had a, on the sly injected those kids with the toxin and then said, right, we'll send them back to the Borg. They're beyond redemption, you know? See, there is, again, that's that thing where she's got the poison in one hand and the baby in the other hand and she's looking like a maniac and then nothing happens. Would not be boring. But like, you know, I'm like, I'll bring up tubics again because it's an ending that people still debate and disagree on now. But, you know, nobody forgets. No one's going to remember this. No. Yeah. Including us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, next week, we'll have no idea what we were talking about, I think. What's the episode that we covered this week? I don't know. It had Borg children with no pants on. All right, it's the end of the episode and it is time for us to work out what on earth we're going to be watching next. I chose I chose Voyager last week, uh, which turned out okay. And now it's your turn to pick Joe. So what series are we choosing from? It means you are entirely responsible for the Yawn Fest we just watched. I'll try and do better. Exactly if I can. Well, look, I feel as if we've done a lot of 90s trek lately, so I can't believe I'm saying this, but I've taken all of the 90s trek out of the randomiser and we're left with the original series animated series and Kurtzman trek. Okay. And to be fair, we've done a nice broad spectrum of quality as well. Because we did Change of Face of Evil, that we loved, remember me that we loved, but then also collective. The episode of Enterprise from series 3, Proving Grounds. Proving ground. Okay. No, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I thought it was okay. There was stuff to talk about anyway. So let's see where we get with everybody else. Okay, your random Star Trek, the original series episode is season two, episode seven. Cats Paw. I've heard of that, but I'm not quite sure what it is. don't have a clue what that's about. No, it's the 1st episode with Chekhov. And it has magical people. Our castle and magical people. I think I've seen this and I think it's probably garbage. But I could be wrong. It could be absolutely suburb. Let's press it again. although that does magical people. That does sound great. With your random Star Trek Lower Decks episode is season three episode four. Room for growth. We've actually rolled this before and I quite like it. And it has 2 plots. There's one where the lower deckers are trying to get an upgrade to the room that they, you know, an upgrade to their quarters because they live in that corridor and stuff and they're competing with Delta Shift or something to try and get this new room in the room lottery when they learn that it's available. It's the one where a masks type incident has just happened on board. on the Cerritos. See, that's smart enough to have the Apple off screen. No, it doesn't happen offscreen, you do see it. And then so the engineering crew have to go to a sort of rest cure in a spa and they kind of refuse to rest and the captain gets more and more tense. It is pretty funny. I have watched it recently and I do like it quite a lot, but uh... I would like to do that, but I have just pressed the button one more time. Okay, good. Yep. And it's landed on something quite interesting. Oh, what? All right. Because it's a back door pilot for something else, I think. Oh, a random star. The original series episode is season two, episode 26, Assignment Earth. Yeah. I love that. I've never watched. seen that episode. I have seen it. And obviously it gets referenced in series 2 of Picard. Mm. as a thing. I think we should. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the original series, even when it's Scotty on murdering a load of people. Stabbing people. Yeah. We have fun, whatever it is. Yeah. Yeah. What you think? Yep, I say do it. You've been listening to Entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley. We're online at Untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts. Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Siserran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb. This episode was recorded on the 22nd of August 2023, and released on the 25th of August. We'll see you next time for Star Trek, the original series Assignment Earth. Okay, assignment Earth, here we come. All right, brilliant. Ah... I really fancy... We rolled that before, actually. We've rolled room for growth before, but we've got something against it. Well, except it, let me just tell you that at the moment, we are well overrepresented in Lartex, we have done 4 out of 24 episodes. So that's 16.67% compared to original series where we've done 10%. Oh, okay. That's fair then. Yeah. And we have overall done 9.51%. So... Nearly at 10%. We're nearly a 10% overall. Underrepresented, uh, enterprise, Voyager, would you believe? And because there's a lot of Voyager, you know, and we've done some of it and the films, which we should do at some point. Well, Christmas is coming, you know. We did one a year. special special special. Well, it takes us a special. If it takes us, you know, a year and a half to 10%, what a year is about, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I guess so. That's kind fair enough. Yeah, prodigy actually is 15.79% because we've done 3 hours of 19. I know, but I think we just choose it, like, who knows what comes along next? I will be choosing Strange New Worlds fairly soon. Yeah, that's 15%. That's still slightly below lower date. Where's DF 4 in that? 18 out of 173. Marvel, I think. No, but we've done 14 next gen and 13 Voyager. you know, they're comparable runs. You know what I mean? So, yeah. anyway, that's kind of a fun thing. I wasn't gonna, we can't let that make us decide. Do you know what I mean? That's just more information. It doesn't matter, you know. It's so weird. The more the more we're doing, boy, the more I realise, you know, a lot of people just say, oh, it's just a lot of the same. There are specific periods of the show. The 1st so the pill of 2 years. Yeah. Where they're trying to do something DS9 and lie, then the Jerry Taylor season where it's all... Then the Brannenbraga, Berman, 4 and 5, where they're trying to jazz it up a bit and make it a bit more exciting. And then the last 2 years, which are... It's kind of like they're just churning the shit out, waiting out the clock. Yeah, it's a bit depressing, isn't it? We can't do them all. Yeah, yeah.