The Elysian Kingdom

Hey, Joe. Hi. So, we're back. We're back on opposite sides of the world and we... That was so much fun, but we're resuming our random amble through the Star Trek franchise, and as we rolled much earlier this year we are doing episode 8 of Strange New Worlds, which is called the Elysian Kingdom. And to my delight, we got to watch episodes 8 and 9 together when you were here in England. And boy, what a pair of episodes they were. That's pretty good. If people ever suggest that Strange New Worlds is a bit one note and just a love letter to TOS. It certainly is not. This is, you know, madcap fantasy with a touch of tragedy. And the annoying was the scariest fucking thing I've ever seen. in Star Trek. I reckon in series one of Discovery, when they were kind of trying to distinguish themselves and say this is what Star Trek's like now, they did have an episode a bit like that. Remember where they went to Discovery Sistership and the Tartar Grade was tearing people to pieces and it was like incredibly gory and gruesome? But that was, that was great. And I think what they do really well in Strange New Worlds is they stake out the area that Star Trek's going to operate in and that they make it very clear what sort of show it is. And that area is just a lot like original Star Trek. And I think that's so good. I love its simplicity. I love the fact that these are standalone episodes for the most part. There's some loose arcs running through the year, but it's not it's not heavy. Like, I don't know, series one of Picard or Discovery, which were you know, big, big novels being told over a season. So to me, this feels absolutely original and 90s trek as well. I sent a message to you earlier because I watched this again this morning and watching this episode back. I think it's one of the strongest of that 1st year, but it's not doing anything especially original. i.e. we've, you know, tarted up the sets before we've had a storybook come to life before. We've had people acting out of character before, and we've had, you know, lonely entities. I mean, Jesus Christ, we've had about 15 of those episodes, if you look backwards. What's great about this is it's sort of playing in that sandbox with these new characters and this entire cast of characters is fantastic. So it's doing all those Star Trek cliches, but in a really fun. There's the whole new energy to it because it's with these characters. Yeah. And the thing is, too, like we said this about dramatis persona. There was no energy at all, Matt. And everyone says this about the naked now that that was too early in the run to be doing an episode where everyone acts wildly out of character. Plenty of sexual energy in that one. You, horny, rod and b-sexual air and energy. Not now, doctor. But these characters are so well-drawn, so well-drawn immediately and so likeable. And it's not just that it's those characters who we've known for a long time. It is just these actors and this writing that managed to produce a group of really likeable, really well-drawn people. And in fact, perhaps the person who has had the least kind of character work by this point is Dr. Mabengo. He's perhaps the one that we know the least, although he has had this kind of running plot for quite a while, I think. And certainly last week, I don't know that you've seen episode seven, have you? It's called... No, there's 2 I haven't seen 7 and 10. Yeah. 7 is very, very good, and he does have a subplot about Rukia and Dr. Mabengo, and so it does lead sort of very well into this. And I think what they said at the time, when they were making it it was going to have character arcs, but not plot arcs was the plan. So refreshing. Yeah, yeah, it's really good. So the characters do move, things happen. Like things like chapel and Spock's relationship, um, you know Spock, uh, and to bring, um, we get a mention of Pike's eventual fate quite early on, and then that's dealt with at the end of the series. Like all of those sorts of things do happen. And so they make us feel like we are in a world where things happen, but they don't have kind of long term products. I think that works really well. I really like, I've not seen this sort of configuration of a crew before. So you've got a captain who hogs the limelight, the least of any captain I've ever seen, and it's so generous as an actor and some mouth, that he gives so much space to all the other actor, but he's very charming and laid back and you want to watch him anyway. You've got like Uhura reimagined as somebody with massive agency and smarts and who gets involved in the plots in a, you know really proper way. Unlike, you know, I like old Ahura, don't get me wrong. She was groundbreaking, but she was very often stuck there with her finger on her ear, saying, Captain, something's coming through. Um, you've got, uh, like, you say, Dr. MaBenge? you say it? You say, but this is the episode where he gets his character development. And beautifully so as well because he's so understated as an actor. Giving him this madcap comedy episode for the 1st 2 thirds. It's almost unthinkable, but then it hits in the last 3rd where he shows more emotion than pretty much any other character in this show to this point. Like he's so moving towards, you know, and I think as a performance piece, this shows what he can do, the actor. What's the femme's name? Let's get this now. Yeah, no, it's I haven't never heard it said aloud. So it's Babs or Loosen McCoon, but I've never heard. I've never heard anyone say it aloud, so I may well have stuffed it up. And he is a character from original track. He does appear in a few episodes. You've also got fabulous Nurse Chapel, you know, no longer weeping over Spock every 2 minutes and it's actually just very charming and cute and, you know, doing a lot as well. And, you know, my, what we did strange new worlds, the pilot, I said the one character I was a bit uncertain about was, you know angry, tough as boots, la arm. I was like, oh, good grief, she's a bit much, isn't she? What come the end of the season? I think she might be my favourite character in the show. She goes on a hell of a journey and may I say her performance in this episode. something else. She's incredible in this. What's the actress's name? It's Christina Chong, who was, of course, in Doctor Who's, uh, good man goes to. No, is it a good man goes to war? A good man goes to war, but we will not hold that against her. All right? I quite like that. But she is. She's fantastic in this, and I thought she was really good in episode one, but she's great here. Yeah, but then in the next episode, you know, it's a gore episode and, you know, that her backstory is the gore one has torn through you know, pretty much everyone she's ever known. And she's angry and she's like, you know, military. And in this, she's a cutesy wootsy princess with her little doggy. You know, my little popsicle, you know. so funny. It's actual. Yeah, you can tell it's licking her. It's licking her everywhere. It's okay. It's so funny. But you know what? Like, what I really loved about this particular episode as well beyond the fact that it does do something very unusual, and that is turn the comedy into tragedy in that last third, which I think it does, exceptionally. And to change tones like that. Yeah. It's not easy, especially when what you've had before is so far. But what I think is funny is that the area that it stakes out as one of the kinds of things this version of Star Trek can do isn't an episode that Discovery could ever do. Discovery couldn't do an episode like this at all. And series one of Discovery has Harry Mudd, in 2 episodes, it's got a time loop episode. It's got a mirror universe thing, it's very definitely saying that we do crazy, crappy 60s Star Trek as well, but it doesn't go as far as this. It's got an edge to it, though. All of those episodes had a bit of an edge to them, the discovery ones. This is just really charming and silly. And a bit childish. I don't think discovery would ever go there. No, I don't either. The closest it gets is when Harry Mudd meets his, you know, his girlfriend and her father. It's kind of like crappy 60s trek comes in and claims Harry Mudd because that's where he really belongs. The Discovery characters are looking at each other like what is going on there? This is not the show we're normally in. That's it. That's exactly it Whereas everyone in this embraces it and, you know, everyone's getting a chance to play out of character. So we're getting to see what they can do away from their usual characters and they're all just brilliant. I think the weakest was probably. Oh, good grief. I was so terrible with the names. The helmsman. Oh, um, so that's Erica. No, I don't think she's terrible. I just think I just think she's great. She's not a 1000000 miles away from what she normally plays whereas everybody else is completely... well, I don't know. Well, Ethan Pike has the brooding Lords of the Rings-esque fellow with a big sword. And he's smoking hot in this, isn't he? He really is. I think that what they do, how she's playing against type, is that her and Pike, have, you know, like Erica and Pike, have this kind of sexy flirty thing going on in the bridge, and because she's coded as queer, it doesn't matter. you know, like it's not creepy or anything, but he'll say something sort of super relaxed about getting the ship in, you know, hit it and then she'll say something, you know, and they have that sort of comedy flirty relationship. And so to make the antagonist in the in the story as well, it's fun, I think, and that's how she's playing against type. Also, the trouble is. We've, we've adds. Yeah, of course. We've had some mouth as this obsequious, cowardy leash. She hasn't got a hope because all you're just looking at him. And I've got to say, again, very selfless because you would imagine, if this was Shatner, he'd be playing the Warrior King with the big sword, you know? He wouldn't be the one on his knees going, oh, oh, you know, I'll obey anybody, you know, just don't kill me. Yeah. I mean, Shannon can do comedy. Shatner can be funny, but I don't think he's a generous actor always to the service of his ego. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's a mouth. don't know. I just don't think he needs it pampered. He's just happy to be there. And he's really great in this, I think is great. So what do you reckon? should probably watch it. We should, I think. We've discussed plenty of it already, but there's more to say. Yeah. All right. Well, I'll count us in. Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off. Okay, so we've got our... Star Trek logo. Did I do this appropriate show now? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's their big, this is a big franchise thing they're doing. Oh, I wonder... Yeah, we get that. Do you know what? Do you know what I especially liked about this, you know, was how it reminded me of those, you know, 90s trek episodes like Masked where they just turned the shit. They put a few drapes up and a few popcorns. and then pretend pretend we're in, you know, some magical kingdom. So this is introducing us to that plot from an episode earlier in the season. But it has this thing where he says something about the ending. It doesn't mean this story's ending can't miraculously change. And in fact, I think the one weakness that this script has is that the, the plot of the fantasy thing is really undercooked, but there is an attempt to kind of link the 2 plots together, the fantasy plot and the Mabenga plot, and it doesn't quite land. But in this conversation where he is speaking to his daughter, to Rakia, there is a kind of thing about, can we change the ending of the story? Like this story is heading towards her death. We need to get a better ending and the thing where he discovers that it's her that the story is being taken from is when she changes the ending. Yeah. So... Well, for me, I was like, are we going around in circles quite a lot just talking about this? What is it they're all looking for? All the characters? The magical crystal... stone? Is it there? There's something stone. They're all after this amazing thing. it turns out it is the little girl. But we have to go through him experiencing all of those characters together in order for him to realise, actually, the story is not coming from the book. It's coming from the girl. Because I was like, okay, where's this going? And then I was like, okay, we're going for all of this so he can make that realisation. And he too, that's kind of cool that what she wants to change about the story is she wants 2 of the characters to come together. You know, 2 characters who ordinarily wouldn't meet come together and then they, the problem is solved and that's what happens at the end. you know, like so that, but all of that is just not quite there. But it is very realistic because I remember reading books as a kid you know, and I'd be like, oh, I want to get to the Daleks, you know, this is boring. Let's skip ahead. Yeah. So this story, the Elysian Kingdom is written by Benny Russell. It is on the front. I think you know Russell... Yeah. I was going to say there's 2 influen- 2 DS9 influencers here. One is obviously Benny Russell is Cisco's alter ego in the car race infused alternative timeline there, but also as well, I was like, you know, this is a, they're showing a black man being very sensitive with a child, which is something that DS9 kind of brought to the trick universe in a massive way. I think their mother, like her mother is dead. I think Deborah is dead and that's the idea, isn't it? Like, it's not a divorce. Like she names the entity Deborah after her mother. So her mother's dead. So he's a single father and looking after this girl sort of secretly. And, and, There's something as well. He's African. Remember how, remember how Ahura's African, right, in in the 60s but she's obviously played by an African-American woman, you know um, and I always thought that her being African made her more acceptable possibly to a potentially um, racist audience, you know because she's not one of the, she's African, you know, she's, she speaks Swahili and so on. Um, and and so our, you know, Celia Gooding, I keep wanting to call her Celia Gooding, Jr. Um, Celia Gooding is um, is, you know, also African, even though she reads like an African-American. This guy gets to do his own accent. Yeah, it's really good, isn't it? Like, because the show has been too American. Like if you think about Star Trek, the next generation, everyone's American, aren't they? except for Marina and Patrick... Well, I think it was, again, it was DS Night. because do you remember that episode where Cisco's unpacking all of his African art? and he says, you know, I'm going to put this up around my quarters. That's how I know this is my home now. And it's a massive strength rather than something that the audience can use to sort of attack that character with. And he's African-American, isn't he? That character is actually from America. His father lives in New Orleans and so on, but he's... You see the clothes he wears? Jeez, yeah, he's conscious of his his African heritage. I think, I mean, he's his accent, he's got that really soft voice like, um, I think he's sexy as hell, Nathan, you know. so good. There's just something... like a quiet strength about him that I really like. Yeah. But like, it's interesting. Compare him. Compare his performance to Avery Brooks. If we're saying there, effectively got like the same backstory. Like he, I'm not sure this guy could front a show because he is too, is a little too uncharismatic. Yeah, I think that makes him perfect for the role of the doctor. Yeah, he's really withdrawn and really uncertain and I think he plays that really amazingly well. Look at this beautiful set. I know, it was so funny is when they when they redress it, you know, it looks super cheap, but in a wonderful sort of original trek way. Well, I actually thought, you know, part of the, it's a weird decision, isn't it? Because, you know, Cupid, I think is the closest that, this is the closest analogue, isn't it? It's Cupid. In terms of them sort of having a laugh has different characters. Yeah, putting the period dress on and all of that sort of thing. But in terms of redressing the ship is masks, for sure. Oh yeah, I guess so. I guess so. I love those curtains though. I think I think it looks great. Well, what's different is the masks? Yeah. You get all these long shots and everything just looks a bit boring, but redressed. Whereas here, when all the all the corridors are like forest and the cameras sort of going in and out of the trees and doing sort of clever things to make you feel like they're outside and the lighting's really good. But I like the throne room, you know, the fact that this is all in these sort of thick green curtains. So good. I was getting mad intendant vibes from her, you know, we'll get there when she's on it later. I loved all of this. So I loved all of this, how relaxed it was on the bridge and how just sort of hanging, hanging out. There's nothing going on. There's no plot happening. And they're just sort of talking and I was like, I could do with a bit more of this in Star Trek, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's it. Just part of the mechanics of being on the ship. And I think, I think, you know, we talk about early, um, Star Trek the Next Generation, but series 2 of Star Trek the Next Generation has stacks of that just hanging around because they haven't got any writers, you know, to make any action happen. Manhunt was literally that for an entire episode, wasn't it? It was intolerable, wasn't it? But I love the relationship between Pike and Erica. Holy crap, it's good. It's so great. Here we go. Oh, here we go. Right. So we are now in the Elysian kingdom, folks. Yes. And the doctor is dressed up in the most resplendent way. You've got the sort of red robes and a fabulous crown on the crown. I think the crown looks incredible. Oh my god. Pikes. Pikes. Pike's got oiled curtains. They look amazing. Well, no, because that hair, that massive wall of hair that sticks up all the time and then sort of oiled it so that it's sitting flat against his head. It's so funny and he's what the hell response. And some of the like a lot of the comedy. Oh boy, this theme tune. So good. I'll say it every time, the bit where it goes, dun, dun, dun, dun dun, dun. I love that bit. Um, I was going to say, yeah, there are a lot of comedy comes from the fact that he's so understated in his reactions to all of this insanity that's going on around him. That's really funny. It's that sort of area of comedy of, if you don't react to it. It's funnier than if you do. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If he'd boggled for that last line, that would... By finding nothing at all amazing. It's the funniest thing in the world, you know? He does get a couple of lines like that throughout the thing. Gosh, these titles are beautiful as well, aren't they? It's when it's when the characters that we expect to be very serious are outrageous in this. So that's when the comedy flies. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Even the engineer, the engineer gets at least wonderful. He's so good. What's his name? Uh, um, Hammer. Yeah, yeah, Bruce Horror. What a great little RK ad. Yeah, yeah. And I think I think that he was originally not going to be, I think he was not going to be as big a role initially, but I think when they decided to kill him in episode nine, They went back and beefed him up in other things because he's not in every episode. But he is in the opening titles. And so... Do you know that? I think I said to you when you were here, that's how you do it. Like, I remember being appalled by Angels series one where they introduced a very small core set of regulars and then just murdered off one of the regulars in episode 6 of a 25 episode season. And it just felt really, I don't know. It felt as if the series was getting going and then it was just a shock to like, are you paid? Whereas here, you have a 10 episode season. You introduce a character, you let him get to know everybody else and then he sort of warms up a little bit, especially in this, and then you murder him horribly in the penultimate episode. That's how you do it. Yeah. And and I wonder whether they'll keep the core cast all the way through because one of the things Discovery does is that people come and go from the ship. And one of the least realistic things about original Trek is that everyone is in the same job for 7 years. And, you know, no one, like that's basically it. But we love that, don't we? You know, when I win, yeah. When they took out Jadzia in series 6, we were appalled. I mean, we've got history, but yeah, but basically everyone just sort of sits there for the same amount of time. and they eventually have to address the fact that it's ludicrous, for instance, that Rikert doesn't get a promotion, you know. It should be a joke in lower deck, shouldn't it? There'd be some really dangerous situation. And someone should just go, well, don't worry, we'll still be here in 3 years time. So we'll be all right, right. Well, Hammer could come back, just like Shacks did or, you know if... That was so funny. Bring Captain Shaw back in... How did you come back, Shacks? You can't know. Great. A whole B plot about it. That was so good. I think it's great that Erica is now like that character's a man. I mean, it's, sir, and, sir, and, yeah. It's that sort of weird thing where Americans think sir, is like mister, and it goes in front of people's last names instead of their 1st names. It's very odd. But she's Saradya, who is a man, I think, originally, but it isn't. Is it specified? I can't remember. No, I didn't even pick up on it. I wasn't sure she was playing a man actually until you just sit there, so thank you. Oh, I'm not sure either. You know, but because the kind of cute relationship that, um, she has with Una. Last one. We know each other intimately. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Quite well. Now, look at, listen to me, Justice, all right? That how you do it, all right? Yeah, but that's the other fun thing about Strange New Worlds, is that Discovery was there, and it was incredibly queer, and it had trans characters and gay characters and so on. And then they announced Strange New Worlds and said it was going to be more Trad. And I thought, oh, okay, so is this the version of Star Trek so that racists can enjoy it? They were never going to take a backstaff. Of course, they weren't. And so here's his fabulous Melissa Navia, and I don't know what her sexuality is. I think she had a husband at some point, but she's definitely coded as queer, she's definitely playing it that way here. Fabulous characters that are people of colour. Fabulous. Like Uhura. It's just rock, so good. Nathan, I still think, you know, I still think that 2nd episode might be the best of the year. Really great. It's so good, isn't it? It's a beautiful piece of Star Trek. Yeah, told me, you know, I'll be saying that about the Yahura episode. in your face. But, like, it's not just a good episode of Star Trek. It's not just a good episode of Strangely Worlds. I think it's a top tier Star Trek episode. Like, I think it's up with getting there with Darmok nearly. Yeah, in terms of communication, yeah, absolutely. I'm sorry, if you squint just a little bit here. This could be a next generation episode now. We've got a little bit of miss, bronze coming down, hexagonal corridors. The way you can tell it's not generation and next generation is because it's so sophisticatedly lit. Yeah, yeah, the light is really great, isn't it? I love how she's now like a hippie chick of some kind. I'd be a bit annoyed if I was her, though, because everyone else is having a lot more fun than her. Yeah, yeah. So they've made Jess, who's Christina Chapel play, sort of, she's a witch lady, isn't she? Or something like that, but she sort of downplays it a bit. She said, and she's a little bit of a hippie. And I kind of like that because it does work with her, you know. She's got a contrast again, isn't it? Because normally she's sort of quite energetic and Full on, whereas here she's very restrained and I do like her reaction to being scared and she does have a funny line about Christina Chong's dopamine level that ends this scene, which I think is pretty good. Well, like in all intents and purposes, this is probably the cheapy of the year, isn't it? All the standard sets minimally redressed. Yeah. With just the R. Oh, my gosh. Oh, here she is. Look at that frog. The fact the fact that she comes in through that mist with that dress. Look at it. It's so great. so funny. Oh my god. They give the dog things to do. Like, the dog actually gets 2 lines, like 2 kind of laugh lines. And you have to think that Christina has just said, you know, I want to, I think my dog would be perfect in this. And obviously, in the rehearsal was going, I'm going to play this to the hill, you know? Because she's such, it's exactly what you said about your reaction to her after episode one, how she was sort of hard bitten and stuff and she had this heartbreaking backstory about her family being eaten by rubber lizards in cocktail dresses. And it was all very serious and she was very hard bitten and tough. And so having her play this so silly and so adorable. And she said, oh, you know, I've got a cavoodle who'd be perfect. I'm going to get my dog in here. He's scared to the dog. The dog reacts to be concerned, you know, that this is what Americans think the British aristocracy is like. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. They think it's Julie Andrews, don't they? Oh, God. She does a little twirl. Her dress pops out. Oh, it's so and do you know what? Look at her possums. Yeah, yeah. You can't see them at all in that unit. Look, the dog's applauding. I know there's a bit of a, I want to throw a compliment at the costume designer as well in this, who is really, like, these costumes are really rich and colourful and memorable for everybody. I mean, just look at the stuff in her hair here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I was really, really admiring, um, seeing as an outfit. Sorry, the dog's looking at tits. He's licking her tits. That's got to be her dog. You know what it is. It's the studio lights and so she's sweating and the dog is licking sweat off her skin. That's the thing that they do. And she does actually notice it. You can see the actor noticing that it's happening and just kind of going, all right, whatever. I'll keep going. The reaction there. from Dr. Mabenga, where he just widens his eyes slightly. Essentially, any scene that she is in is gold. and the bit later on where she sings the opera. is so funny. And so who Emma? His hammer. And he, he's not affected because he's telepathic. Is that it? That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Then he's, unlike the doctor, he really, really gets involved when he can, you know? I think he's a bit of a ham at heart. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's so good. Holy crap, he's great. He's a handsome man as well. I don't know if you've seen him out of costume, but out of the makeup. He's a good looking man. And he is actually blind. So this is a, you know, we had a disabled character in Star Trek the Next Generation played by an able body character. Here we have a blind alien played by a blind human. I think that's, you know, superb. No, it is worth noting, but this is this sort of episode that my other half would consider agonising in Star Trek. Basically, when anyone's having fun, you know. But I want to say as well, like, obviously, we talk about jammer quite a lot, jammer's reviews online. he really didn't like this. So where's the division here? Like, why don't people like fun in Star Trek? I think, like, I think that he, what he thought was all of this was a waste of time because... No, he found the plot of the book uninvolving. Do you know what I mean? And I don't think you're meant to be involved in the plot. What you are meant to be involved in is him trying to work out what to do. Like we're in this situation. He and Hammer aren't affected. How does, like what is he even supposed to do? How does he get out of this? And so, but, and also we're just having fun with them being silly hurry, sir. Yeah. this is the 1st time they've had a chance to do this. But the thing, the telling thing was that he said that in a 10 episode series, 3 of the episodes were comedies, and I guess the 3 comedies are Spocker Mark, the um... Vokamok, the one where they had the... The body swap? and number one were trying to go around the ship and do the Enterprise big gun. Is that in that? Is that in that? Maybe it is wonderful. Well, that was great, but it's the body swap episode with Tapring and Spock, which I just thought was awesome. Like, I just thought that was really great. This is funnier than that though. This and the Serene Squall, I think he said, I thought that was the weakest comedy of the three. But I think it was less wholeheartedly accommodated. It was just overtly comic. Yeah, yeah, it wasn't just being fun and silly. There was a sort of worthwhile plot going on there. This is original trek. This is the... original trek was a shame. Yeah, he's saying that's a waste of time. That's 3 out of 10 episodes wasted on being funny. And I kind of think, no, no, no, no, no, no. This isn't Battlestar Galactica. This is Star Trek. silly. They have to establish that it can be silly. And he, I don't know whether he wants to tune in every week and watch The Siege of AR 558. Oh, we got that one. 4 miles. You know, I absolutely don't want to do that. I want Star Trek to do all of the things it can do. And I'm happy about this because Discovery didn't do this in quite the same way. And so now we have a photo of Star Trek that can. But this is obviously a massive love. I know it's doing its own thing, but it's a massive love level to the original Star Trek. And that's the show that gave us the gangster planet and the bunny from Alice in Wonderland. And things like this. And so of course it's going to have fun. Yeah. I'm again at all. No, and this is not, I mean, eventually Star Trek, the Next Generation, which we, oh, look how, Ethan Peckard, the thoughts that are going through my head right now. Do you know what? You can really grab his air as well, couldn't you? So pretty. And he's smiling. When he comes in, he's smiling. I mean this is a deliberately hot look. Somehow he manages to make that spot look. Hot, hot. It's amazing. It's an attractive man. But look at him smiling here, you know, it was something that they you know, once or twice got an emoy to do and it was striking too. Do you see the light coming in through the trees? And here, I know I keep talking about the lighting, but I never get a chance to it, 90s track. So it's quite refreshing. Yeah, no, it's beautifully done. Some practical lighting. I like all the flames, yeah. Sick Bay had lots of candles in it. They got sort of flaming Brazzi, is that what they're called? Braziers. Thank you very much, I swear. Flaming bras all over the place. Because the light in this ship is so like the walls are gleaming white. It's blueish, white and gleaming white. And so in the Elysian kingdom, it's mostly yellow. Astonishing engine room. That goes back. It's fast, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Well, that's the effects wall, isn't it? That special affects wall. I think I'm training myself to notice it. But look at that. Look at that. Well, that shot up the Jeffreys tube, which seemed to go on forever as well. What I did like as well. Like it plays out with predictable sort of storybook twists, but they've done really well. I loved um the spot character. What's his character's name in the Elysian Kingdom? Um, Pollux. I like the fact that he comes along and I'm the hero. I love the brooding hero. And in fact, no, he's going to sell them out, so evil Ahura. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you see, I was barely paying attention to that because I just don't think that's what this is about. Um, particularly. Look at this. And I'm such a Now you talk about costume design. Her as, oh, I know. Look at the stuff around her de colletage, you know, like the details of around her, uh, you know, neckline. The thing that sort of straps across and then goes around her waist, and she's so little and elfin. Like she's such a tiny person, isn't she? And just making her the villain is so good. It's such a great choice. Well, I remember in episode 2 where she was a bit nervous about going to Pike's dinner. Do you remember? And then later on in this. on his knees in front of her. She's in command. You know, I like how the dynamics are very different. Oh, God, Pike's so funny. Just see him just sl himself. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And look, they're shooting her from below so that she looms over everyone. With that huge symbol behind her all lit up, you know? This is where this is where I'm getting sort of intendant vibes because I used to shoot her like this from below. Yeah, you know, looking very menacing. I mean, they do the thing where his colour is green and her colour is red. And so they, you know, make the sets match them. Like they're both in the 2 biggest sets in the ones in the bridge ones in engineering, you know, like it's, I think they do a good job. She is literally a panto villain as well. She is the ice queen. She has icicles coming off of everything. Those things on her fingers too are gray. too. And this, I just... I can't take it anymore, I tell you. Look at the bars look so great around the transporter. It's so good. It's so different. The walls are closing in on me. So funny. Honey, they're having the conversation. Look, do you know why people are acting strangely? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and so I hadn't really properly realised it until last time but the thing is that he thinks that it's being taken from his head, doesn't he? He thinks that the reason, because he's special, he, he, um, it's being done for him, but he thinks it's being done by him in some way. Yeah. And then it's when he realises it's his daughter. when the whole episode shifts gear, isn't it? Yeah, that's right. That's right. And it's doing it's doing that thing that we've done a lot in Star Trek. But it always really works. That was the episode with Riker, you remember, Future Imperfect and that's all about that lonely little alien on the planet or Sarjenka in series 2 with data. pen pals. Yeah, and sort of the anomaly that they're in is an equivalent of that, isn't it? It's a lonely lost being that wants company. The way they explain it is really interesting too. So he's be, you know, um, the doctor is asking Hammer where a godlike alien entity comes from. And maybe this is the 1st one that we discover in Star Trek. Do you know what I mean? Like maybe this is our 1st god-like alien entity. And Hammer suggests that the universe produces them spontaneously and that's how they come. And that explains all the others. And that's exactly right. And he uses a term which I think was called Boltzmann's brain. And I looked it up. It's actually a real thing. where cosmologists used to suggest that if their, and I may misunderstand this, because I read it very briefly, is that their models of how the universe works, if they're sufficiently complicated, then they allow this sort of thing to happen spontaneously. You know, if you think, well, this universe can just invent itself then why kind of brain just, you know, find itself here. And it's a thought experiment is very 19th century for cosmologists and I don't quite know that I've understood it perfectly. But yes. So it's as if we're creating a theory for where all these alien entities come from in Star Trek. If you like it, you won't be disappointed if you watch the run through chronology because you will see plenty of them. That's right. Because what was Lonely among Us? Wasn't there a... That was a lonely electric cloud. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Picard beams off the ship so he can fucking nebula. We could probably find one a season in every show. Oh, you can. Yeah. Every anomaly. Well, um, there was a couple of Voyager as well. I think the episode blissed in series five. Lonely Cloud. Okay. Oh, look, he blows his gum. He's loving it. He's using science. But when he was 1st introduced, you remember those scenes with Ahura early in the season and he was so serious, wasn't he? And very rude as well. And she earned his respect and he started to sort of warm up there. Oh, no, the 2 of them have a really, like, and in fact, that's the most heartbreaking reaction, I think, to him is death in episode 9 is her reaction, because they have been so close, and because he encourages her to find a place to belong after the loss of her family and things, like, that's a proper good relationship that they have. I still can't quite get over that scene of those baby gaunts coming out of that fella, you know. Oh my god. So good. That's insane. That alien looked great though, Mr. Watts's face. The realisation of that. I mean, I think I think, like I said this was the cheapie, but they're basically saying, well, we need a lot of money for this. We're on a nice planet. you know, we've got CGI Gaunts, prosthetics all sorts going on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But just because this is cheap. I don't mean it ain't good. No, no, I think it's really fun. And this to me, this feels more like Star Trek than anything else this year because, like I said, all these different elements have been done elsewhere, you know? Yeah. But it's just, it's kind of almost done to perfection here. Well, it's kind of like, you remember enterprise, like originally kind of duck tells very simple story. It's like here they go on an away mission and someone's racist and nothing happens. And, you know, like we're boiling it down. But this does that as well. I think this is saying, this is saying what Star Trek is now in the way that Enterprise is as well, but it's doing a good job of it. I like enterprise series as well. I think. You see pike then. It goes, I think I probably best serve you from the safety of the castle. Yeah, and he does. And he's already run, you've ever seen. Yeah, yeah. Before the king says, yes, all right. He's already running. I got slightly distracted by that hot guy, one of Mitchell's little Yeah, that the shaved hair. I don't think it would work with any other captain, that role. I just don't I couldn't see any other captain playing that. And his Una. It's so it's such a weird choice as well, isn't it? It is, but I believe the eyeliner budget went through the roof for this one, you know? Because she's so straight laced, isn't she? And serious. What's great is the doctor and the engineer are having so much fun at this point. That's why they just looked at each other like... There you go. Well, no, now they're together. So what are you saying about there being a lack of queerness in Strange New World? Yeah, well that's right. No, no, exactly. There is queerness in Stranger Worlds. And, of course, we had... It was gone on all the time in original Trek. Just off from where the camera was. Yeah, that's right. Oh, here's that set. Here's the engineer. So some of it's the wall. Some of it's the special effects wall, I think. See, I can see the wall now. But I think my brain allows me to be tricked. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is a very strange relationship to have with a television production. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I was sort of doing it with a Mandalorian. I think by the time the Mandalorian got to series 2, it was like oh, I could see the wall. They have a circular wall. They call it the volume. No, no. And I mean, because we always knew that it was like they would key the background in. You and I have been trained on the CSO, you know, back in the 2nd season. Whereas that is actual genuinely happening in the camera, you know like the actors can see it. The camera picks it up, a little bit like back projection only just, you know, more effective and, you know, it's just terribly well done. I think it works really well. Yeah, so now, now we're kind of working out. Are we trying to work out why it's those 2 that are unaffected and we know that it's Emma because he is has psychic powers and we can we're going, oh, actually, the entity's reading it from you. That's what's him is saying here. The entity's reading it from you. And he hasn't quite worked it out yet, that obviously this version of the story with the 2 of them, with Una and Erica together, can't come from him because he rejected that version of the story in the early episode. Is that what she said at the beginning? I wanted them to get together. Yeah, no, that's not what happens. She wanted the huntress to come in and help Suraja to save the king. So I thought we were heading towards an ending of like, you know well, you're dying and we can't change the ending, you know. Actually, yes, we can. Yeah, and I think that is sort of there. But like I said, I think it is a little bit undercooked. I think that this would be a better episode if the fantasy plot and the and the main plot were more clearly linked together because there's another... The curse and trait, you've detailed this in a lot of other episodes. They do this very well. They're like the A and B. Not like 90s trait, where it's just 2 random things going on in one episode. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Keiko's bored and... We need to give her an arboretum. But the, I think the, like, because there's another point later on where the doctor, um, explains to Rukia that the king had to give up the mercury stone because the mercury stone had a soul, and so he had to let it go. And because that only turns up in that scene, do you know what I mean, we haven't had that anywhere else? It's not, it's not quite as good as it could be, I think. I wonder if things are cut. I don't know. It might be. I think, I think, yeah. Yeah. But I don't think it matters. think it's still really enjoyable but I do think it would have been better. I know there's one thing you really rate in Kurtzman Trek, and that is the music. And I think it's a little bit bombastic at times. And I know that it's a nice contrast to the wallpaper music, latter day TNG, 90s track, and DS Night of Voyager and all of that. I thought the music in this was extraordinary and it really sold the emotion. During this scene, some very delicate strings came in, but really memorable. Yeah, I thought the music was great in this. Hmm, yeah. It could have gone a bit crazy because, you know, it's a comedy episode and it could have done that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They could have been all blinky and telling us to learn it off. Yeah. There's music sort of, until this point it's sort of going into that heroic nature of the thing, you know, it's all... But now it comes right down. And yeah, it doesn't it doesn't step on the performance, which I really liked. Oh, look at him. He back. He's, you know. Isn't he good? He's so good at this. I think I said to you when we watched this was that he's so restrained throughout the entire episode and then the scene where he chooses to let her go in the quarters and then he really lets the emotional come out. And sometimes that restraint can then lead to a very powerful reaction to the audience. I really moved me. Yeah, yeah. I think he does a really good job and it's a strange one as well. Like, because it's a space thing that's happening. Like, but we still know how to think about it. We've laughed our heads off at scenes such as the Edo want to execute my son and come on, B'lana. Talk to me. That's where hysteria gets you. When it's subtle, it can be really moving. Oh, speaking of subtle, here's Anson Mount begging. He goes, how could I serve you? So great. Oh no, sorry. What do you want from me? But he doesn't, that's really whiny voice. When she goes, I want you to obey me. And he's like, oh, well, I can do that. Oh, look at that shark. Look at that shot where he bends down out of shot and she's standing there looking triumphant. Because she's got all that sort of fabulous stuff on her nails. She plays about with her hands like an evil villainess. So good. All right. So, yeah, poor old lady Audrey doesn't get to do very much. What she doing here? She's just doing some witch stuff in the background that we don't know what it is. And like, Jesus Christ, you think Gemma will be all over this shit. Hanging around just sort of having a lark is what 90s tracks did for about half its half its seasons, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think that he's conscious that we only get 10 episodes and why aren't we doing serious business in all of them? And I think that we shouldn't be doing serious business in all of them that that's not what Star Trek ever was. Yeah. Not everything is late Deep Space 9. And like Deep Space 9 is good. Deep Space 9 had take me out to the hollow suite and batter being out of bang. Exactly. Of course it did. And the magnificent Ferengi... Yeah, yeah, yeah. had a laugh as well. Yeah, but I think he's saying we're having a few laughs in a 26 episode season. We have 3 episodes that are funny. He doesn't want 3 episodes that are funny in 10 episode season, and I think that it's super important that in this 1st season, they stake out the area. You know? I know, but you know what? My preference is probably to the locks now, because I remember, you know, when I go back and watch the X-Files, season 6 was basically a 25 episode season and about 15 of them are comedies and that's my favourite year. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, once that discovers it can do comedy, it just absolutely flies. Yeah, so good. Right. The whole cast here now. Everyone be fair. But Hammer is using his science to resolve this... Fucking hilarious. I was going, ooh, guy, ooh, guy. Abracadabra. He does have a great outfit. Oh yeah, he does have a very good outfit. We get some great Andorian antenna action later too. Which I can never get enough of because their antennas were so shitty in the 1960s. And he's got proper enterprise style, Andorian, and tennis, doesn't he? I don't know. All I wanted to see is the outtakes from this scene, right? dressed up like this. Right, folks, let's go for lunch. She's so great. Oh my god, seniors. in. Are we fucking being paid to do this, really? Have this much fun. This is absurd. I'll tell you what, though, yeah, look at him. Look at him being fierce now. You absolutely buy that too. The cob officer. What's her name again? I keep forgetting. Oh, Erica Ortega. Do you know what? Do you see her social media? She markets this show brilliantly. Oh, yeah. I think she's wonderful. I think she's really, really great. She's clearly, it's a bit like, oh, that tragic, uh, the ball queen from series 2, uh, Star Trek Picard. What was her name? I can't remember, but obviously she died of cancer. She was all over social media. She was clearly having the best time in the world. And she's like, I want to tell everybody how good this is. And it's the same with her in this. Yeah, she's wonderful. I think she's really great. Emma's doing some great wizard shit here. You sort of prostrate in with his hands, you know? Ah, brocadabra. You saw the gesture that he did to the doctor? back off a 2nd I'm doing wizard acting. And it's the best use of a communicator. forever. It just pulls it out and then stabs his finger in. presses the button. Oh it's joyful. And that smile. I don't think you see him smile like that very much in that season if he does that big. Once again, the magic of science prevails. Oh it's terrific. Oh, okay, I'm not going to, I'm not going to be, going to say this very quickly. I'm not going to shit on discovery. But it ain't never as fun as this. No. for me. Oh, it's charming. I don't know. There's just something about this. It's a bit magic. Yeah, yeah, I think so too. I think this, you know, they had a, I think their original intention with discovery is to do new Star Trek, like do Star Trek but they didn't do Star Trek. They went a long way, you know, by serialising it and so on. It's not enough like Star Trek, I think. It's a little bit too tied to its premise. Whereas this is just Star Trek, isn't it? But I admire them because they've done their own thing. They absolutely, you know, set their store to say, right, this is what we're going to do. But yeah, this is this just this gives me the feels, you know? No, especially this scene especially does. It sounds like a terrible thing to say, but I think this is a better redo of Star Trek than Star Trek than Next Generation ever was. Like, this is like easily a lot better than that. There is more development of these characters in this season than you add in 7 fucking years of TNG. But it's also the production values as well. You know, like... Remember, it's been 30 years, you know. Oh, no, no, I know, but other shows went outside. you know what I mean? You're never going to let that drop, are you? You know what? When I push the button next, there's going to be only episodes where they go outside. 90s trek. might be pressing for a while. I knew you were going to say that. Oh, this is all his performance here where he says goodbye to her. Yeah, yeah. Oh my god. And his performance when she comes back as an older version straight away. And he plays it, like, the character just, he can't comprehend... Like losing all of that time with her and her being back. It's really beautifully done. He's he's really good. And this is like, I guess every parent eventually has to let their child go. You know, there's someone put it so beautifully in something I read this week or last week that there's the last time that you picked that child up. Like at one point you pick the child up, you put the child down and you never, ever pick them up again. You know, there's that parenthood is about eventually about letting go. And maybe that's what makes this real or something? I don't know, because it is a very sort of science fiction-y thing. You know, she has to go off with a space thing and he has to be happy to let it happen. But it's also as well, the whole idea of her, she did get to go out there, have an amazing life, experience these wonderful things. Yeah. He actually was going to die, you know? But it's not only that, that she starts, she's in the pattern buffer. Like she's in the most constrained space possible. She only ever experiences anything in that little room where her father's reading to her. And then, remember she says at the beginning of the thing, will you take me to your quarters? And that's how he knows where to find her once she's, you know once he knows that she is the source of this story. He knows that he can find her in his quarters. And then eventually, you know, he says, I'll show you the whole ship, but in fact, Deborah comes along and chose her the whole universe. And you know, all the characters in Star Trek, you know, this is the fate. I think perhaps that I would want to have, going out there exploring all your fantasies with your best mate. Yes, please. Yeah. It is um, it's, yeah, it's sort of strange. I think... So maybe maybe if the 2 plots aren't tied together as well as they could be. Maybe if it's not making its point as strong as it could. The emotional moments. Yeah, exactly as they should. And you know me, that's more important to me than plot logic. Oh yeah, I don't care about plot logic so much. And thinking I'm thinking story logic a little bit. You know, that every part of the story needs to be working together in some way. And I think what sells it is just this magnificent performance. He is so good. And he's not our character, even though he's usually not very emotional and he's very emotional here, but it's still a sort of it's so, so sweet. He's very restrained, I think, is the thing. You know, like... I've said cheese before, isn't it? But that sometimes that is more powerful. Yeah. Yeah, but look at the just the way he's looking at her face, you know, like he's touching her arms, he's touching her face. He's looking at every part of her face as if to kind of memorise it because he's decided to allow her to go. And like a fairy tale. It has such a happy ending. And it wouldn't work without that, you know, like we, you know Like he's making a big decision to allow, he allows her to make the decision for a start. He doesn't make the decision for her. Um, And it turns out right. She had to come back and say that was the right decision. If you're a savvy person or even if you're not like me, when you said at the beginning of the episode, you know, the king had to sacrifice. Well, then I think you might know where this is going. Yeah, yeah. And if you do, it still lands. Yeah, yeah. It tickles. Oh, there's more. Yeah, that's a, that is just a little bit cheesy, I think. This does remind me at the end of the doctor episode Voyager Dam you know, where Kylie Minogue becomes pixie dust and goes off on her adventures. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that is slightly cheesy. I have to say that she's okay. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's relying on him. She's a child actor. She doesn't ruin the scene. I hate to tell you this, but Star Trek can't be incredibly cheesy you know. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But like his reaction to her disappearance is so good. Like, it's so good. Like, he doesn't, he can't even bring himself to move forward to he tries to take a step but can't. And then giving him that little gift of coming back and saying he made the right choice, you know. Otherwise, he'd just been wondering, well, that's right. That's right. It wouldn't have been a good ending for us either, I think. And it means, you know, you and I always say, well, you know, they go through these terrible things and then next week they're fine again. Well, this means he can kind of close the book on this and move on. In fact, one of the things that I think works really well too, is that she makes him promise to be happy, right? And is this death? Like she goes away with Deborah who has stopped, who is an like an idea or an incorporeal entity and she goes where Deborah went, you know, is this... I never gave it that reading, but I could imagine if you were that way inclined, you absolutely could give it that way. But it's a possibility, isn't it? Like it's a way of thinking about. But yes. Because she tells him to be happy because they lost her mother, you know, like, and he's now alone. She said to him, create your own stories. Is she the same thing? Well, I mean, a Star Trek series. Of course I will. Promise you'll be happy. Promise, you know, promise you'll be happy. And look at him. Yeah, what a beautiful man. And, you know, like, you just wouldn't be watching an original Star Trek, a person of colour, a man crying like that. Yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean? Some people would say we haven't come on. We have come on. I think I think what's really great is this is so nothing. But the special effects was reflected in his eyes, you know, he's got very deep, dark eyes, obviously, but in that scene, as he was saying goodbye and weeping, his eyes were reflecting the gold of the special effect somehow. Maybe that's the biggest difference between Kursman Trek. I don't think they came before, if they just have the ability now to sort of capture the magic visually in a way that they never did before. Well, yeah, I mean, I think that I think that original Star Trek looks weird and 90 Star Trek doesn't. But you know, that's sort of the sort of, you've mentioned it in other Cuzman episodes. sort of the beauty of the universe, you know, in a way that's sort of a bit overpowering and emotional. I don't think they ever had the ability to do that before. But I think there's a rejection of that as a as a goal, as an aesthetic goal by 90s trek, and I think it's a big mistake. Yeah, we're all winning conference rooms, aren't we? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Enterprise episode where everything was so gray. Do you remember? What was it, stigma? Yeah. Well, I mean, that's why I think that this version. Like, I love 90s trek, and it's been part of my life for 30 years or whatever. Um, I can't do the maths more than that. Um, but, But I think this is a superior iteration of Star Trek. And I think it is partly because it's determined to be beautiful and weird looking and it can be. Yeah, that was good. That was lovely. And the way they put mark, the episode with 2 scenes with the doctor and number one as well. Yep. Yep. Yeah. And there's no grandstanding at the end of that as well. Like it just ends very calmly. Like to see a bit more of her in series two, actually, to get a bit more prominence. Have you seen the final episode of series 2 of Lower Decks? I think so. Probably not. Anyway, I'm not going to spoil it because you need to watch episode 10, obviously, of this. Isn't that the one where the captain's banged up? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, she gets arrested. seen that one. Okay. Well, wait until you watch episode 10 of this. Okay. And I think episodes, is it six? No, this is, I think it's episode seven. The lift us where suffering doesn't reach. I've got the number wrong, but those 2 are both very good, I think. I think the fact that they are daring to do a strange new world's lower decks crossover. Possibly the balmiest and best premise for an episode of Star Trek. So good. How are they doing? I don't know. It's gonna be, it's gonna be... I think it's going to be in Strangely World, and I think it'll be Boheemler and Mariner. And I think because they look like they're characters more than Tandy and Rutherford do. I mean, we know Rutherford from, uh, um, we know him from the Good Place, his Pillboy. He's um, and he's in um, uh, crazy ex-girlfriend as well. So I think it'll be those two. And Tawney Newsom, I think, has a writing role in Kurtzman Train? And I'm not sure what series it is, but she's someone else. She's someone else who on social media is absolutely, hugely into being involved in Star Trek and is really enthusiastic about it. I want them to totally animate the Strange New Worlds crew as well. Please, just for a little bit. I mean, you know those, you know, those TAS versions of all the later age. Recently, someone's done a strange new worlds, TAS. Oh, have they? It's just as glorious as all the others. I mean, the best one is still the Voyager one with the lizards. Yeah, yeah, yeah. so great. Nathan, I thought that was exceptionally good. Yeah, I did too. that was really great. This is the Star Trek series that we've actually covered most of because we've done 30% of the episode. at this point. What's that? 2 episodes? Oh, no, three. So we may need to give it a bit of a rest later this year, June the 15th. June the 15th, we get a whole new series of it. I suppose we should have to wait too long. We should head back to somewhere that's got, you know, 900 episodes. But in terms of comedy in terms of tragedy. That really hit me. Like, I don't care about story logic, really. I care if I feel something when I'm watching a TV program and this really made me laugh and it really made me sad at the end and then sort of a bit hopeful too. So I think it, I think this scores. This is, this is one of the better episodes of, or one of the best episodes of series one, Australia. I think series one has just done a great job of being Star Trek and being really entertaining to watch and I think that's great. Like, I think the Gorn episode is probably a better episode of Star Trek, but that is doing very predictable things with horror cliches, whereas I just think this is a more enjoyable watch. You know? And, you know, jammer, Marvara, anyone else that might care to not be listening to this. Star Trek should be fun. It should be fun. Well, it's the end of our episode and it is time for us to work out what we're going to watch next. And so Joe is at Untitled Star Trek project.com slash randomiser. Tell us which series we're choosing from. I am going to tell you which series I'm choosing from. But 1st of all, I'm going to say, it's marvellous to be back, you know. We haven't talked about Star Trek for how long? Yeah, months. Two months? It's been a long time anyway. It's great to be back baby. Right. So I've chosen... We've just signed Kurtzman. And Kurtzman Trek has recently been celebrating 90s Trek in a very big way with Picard series 3. Talk about a deep dive. Oh, no, I was about to make some spoilers then. I better just shut up. So I have put every 90s trek into the randomiser, even enterprise. Even Enterprise, which did get a big shout out in Picard Series 3. So let's find out precisely what Star Trek Picard series 3 is celebrating. Okay, press the button then. Okay, your random Star Trek Voyager episode is season seven episode five, critical care. That's the one. That's the one with the doctor, isn't it? Um, and it's a very classic political one where they sort of set up a system that resembles what passes for a healthcare system in the United States. And it even predates people setting up GoFundMes in order to pay for their basic medical bills. But it's making a lot of those about Nathan at the moment. Yeah, 0 yeah. Yeah. Please fund me having a pizza tonight. Yeah. But, But I mean, a lot of people, that's how they fund their medical care because it's so bad in America. What do you think? No, no, I get it. I've already pressed it again, I'm afraid. Sorry. It was never going to be the 1st time. No. 1st episode back. But it's not going to be this episode either, because I just don't fancy watching it. What is it? It's Deep Space 9. Season three, episode six, the abandoned. Oh, I don't even know what that is. So that's Odo. It gets handed a Jim Haddar child by... Oh, it's a Gemini. Yeah, and he thinks that he can. Yeah, there is an episode later where he's handed a changeling child. Oh, okay. Never let it say they don't throw away a good idea. The Forsaken is the one with Odo and Luaxana Troy in the Turkey. So that's different from the abandoned. The abandoned, yeah. He thinks he's going to turn the Gemadar around. Okay. You know, by giving by being a good pair. By being nice to him. Yeah, okay. Spoiler, he doesn't. It doesn't work. Anyway, pressed it again. Oh, ooh, I see. I quite fancy doing this because I've seen someone write not pleasing things about this on social media recently and I love it. Your random Star Trek, Deep Space 9 episode is season one, episode 15, Progress. I love this episode. I love this one. absolutely one of my favourites. It's so good. 2nd best episode of the 1st season. You think duet is the best one? Yeah. So they're both here episodes. and guest star. What you and I were saying there about restrained emotion. This is such a quiet episode. It's so interesting, isn't it? It's really properly good. Nathan. this big, ugly tree. For God's sake. That's so Star Trek, isn't it? It's a classic 90s Star Trek obvious. It's the fact that she tells the story and he listens to it and then Cisco turns up and goes, he goes, oh, why don't you tell him the story about your tree? It's really good properly good. Do you know, and I know it's been a break. We did do a fair amount of DS9 just before we went off air, but that is a goodie. Yeah, no, let's do it. What if we never do that one? What if we never roll it again? Well, I guess you have a chance to wax lyrical about then our visitor as well. I love doing that. Progress. Here we count, Chris. Brilliant. You've been listening to Entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley, where online at Untitled Star Trek Project com, where you can find links to our Twitter, Mastodon, Facebook and YouTube channel. Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Sisrin, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb. This episode was recorded on the 22nd of April 2023 and released on the 28th of April. We'll see you next time for Star Trek Deep Space 9, Ogress. So, yeah, like, we take months off and literally everything happens in Star Trek and we've, like, missed all of it. So we had all of Series 3 of Picard. And we had the discovery announcement. Mm-hmm. And did I... And section 31 announcement. And section 31 announcement. and did I dream Star Trek Romulus? Or was that, was that real? I might have been an April Fools joke, you know? Yeah, might have been an April Fools show. They're muting this Star Trek legacy, aren't they? And what about Starfleet Academy? Was that an April fools joke as well? Yeah, I'm not sure anymore. Yeah, I don't know. We've got so many Star Trek shows coming out. We're Braveling Star Wars. Ross TV, we better hurry up, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Are we killing off? I mean, because we've had our last Picard. We're going to have our last season of Discovery next year. So there's holes in the... I said I was going to watch all series 4 discovery before we came back and I haven't. You said you were going to watch all of Enterprise. Series 4 of Enterprise, so that's good. I watched I watched up to the augments thing or is that the 1st thing? How does it start? I think I didn't see the final augment. I think you stopped watching halfway for episode 2 because you didn't get to the bit where the man was murdered horribly, did you? I think so, yeah, yeah, yeah. In the tube, in the tube and all the blood's coming out everywhere. Oh, I can't remember. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No I definitely saw that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That was another thing. It was that like, I'm going to kill one of you every 10 minutes until you agree to do the thing and then clearly Vatic watched that episode of Enterprise and do the same thing. Oh, she was good as well, yeah. I do think she was good. But to go on a bit. I was like, this, and in the end it was all about a bit about nothing. I was like, okay. So the incredible thing for me was that it took me like 5 or 6 episodes before I realised that she was a 2nd generation Star Trek villain, because of course her father played General Chang in the undiscovered country. And I think she's better than him, and he's pretty amazing, but I think she's probably the best one. I think she's better than Ricardo. Nobody will ever top salome gens for me. I want the Cardassians executed. But you remember that. population. You remember crisis point? Is it crisis point? The episode of, oh, I've gone all fuzzy. The episode of, why have I gone fuzzy? Okay. Uh, the episode of um, Lower Decks, where, uh, Boimer, like Mariner writes a film and then she's the villain. She's the she's the villain, she's got Tendee and Rutherford and stuff in her spaceship and things. So obviously, obviously, um, Obviously, uh, Mariner is is also the best Star Trek movie villain. But after that. After that, after that, it's Vatic. I think she was so great. She was so great. She was right. I just liked just how weird she was. Yeah. She had no intention of playing that role naturalistically in any way, shape. Well, it was very... Bushing against what everybody else is doing, you know? Yeah, yeah. So good. And like she smoked and she was kind of slimy and stuff. She was great. I was like, don't they? These founders, although she did look a bit like a founder. Yeah, I mean, that was part of the thing, wasn't it, that they couldn't be detected and stuff? Yeah. Yeah. That no, well, but even... No, I do think they do a cheap job better at that. I did a good job of celebrating all of 90s trek in one way or another. Yeah. Yeah, I just thought of just one character. I'd like just one character. That's one show. Do you know, I was super glad that they didn't kill anyone. Like, I just thought that's miserable and, you know, Star Wars. What are you talking about? They killed a lot of people. They didn't kill any of the main 7 though. You know, like they didn't kill... Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, yeah, no. Is that what I normally do? miserable. That would have been just, yeah, that's right. E-Cheb and Hugh. Or each other. Who else? That was terrible. Anson Rose. That was pretty great. And Shelby. I didn't like that. Yeah, I didn't like that. Let them have lives. Oh, well, they're made up. It's fine. And we did get to see her again and she was pretty great. That was actually a really, really good scene with her and him wasn't it, in the bar? Like you broke my heart. I just thought... I thought that whole episode was great until the end. And then I was just like, don't kill her. For God's sake, I know I'm glad they killed her. Yeah, yeah. That raises the stakes and it doesn't matter whether she dies or not because it's not like there was ever going to be anything with Row in it again, ever. You know, like she was done. You can always go back and watch Battlestar Galactica episodes. Oh, that's true, yeah. She's endorsing rape. She's really good in that too. She's terrifying in that. Gets that job on the strength of her performance in Star Trek, I think. She's so good. Yeah. And I think maybe I re-imagining in Picard might be on the strength of a performance in Boustard Galactica. Yeah, yeah. feeding each other there. It was good. It was probably good. We're going to have a big preamble, we better get going. I think this might be a long, it might be a long episode. Yeah, yeah. Okay. All right. Oh, well, I've got another thing to talk about as well, but I'll put that in just before we go into the episode, all right? All right, cool. In fact, no, you because my thing is so insignificant, yeah. You say about all of the, oh, no, hang on. We're doing the taggers, all the other stuff. Oh, okay, so I'll put it in the tag then. This is the show. Okay. Yeah, this is the tag. Well, right now. Yeah. Oh okay. Yeah we're doing the tag. That why we're talking. Well, this whole time. Well, since it's cold. I'm off guard. I didn't even realise. I could have said anything. pants on now when. I'll never do that Well, then may I add then. Yeah. The longest tag we've ever done. Oh, yeah. Well, we've been off. We've been off. People need to know why. I can't believe I didn't realise we've been, this has been part of the episode for the last sort of 10 minutes or so. Anything could be, the moment you press record, anything could be. That's true. And you've already done that a few times. I've done that to you. Suddenly I'm going to adopt my podcasting voice all of a sudden. Okay. And may I may I introduce you to, Yeah, I told you I occasionally peruse 2nd hour bookshops, you know, and this one. Oh, you sent me this photo? Every now and again, I find an absolute gem, which is Star Trek related, but never before has been anything so amazing as the Star Trek cookbook, as written by Ethan Phillips from Star Trek. Oh, my God. So when we when I was staying with you, we watched Toby Hadoke friend of your other podcast, Toby Hadoke, um, doing the Doctor Who cookbook, Gary Downey's terrible cookbook from the 1980s, and all of the food was just fucking horrendous, like absolutely disgusting. What do you think about, what do you think about Ethan? What joy of this is he's taken genuine recipes that have appeared throughout the Star Trek franchise from the original series all the way through to Voyager. I was trying to... The official cookbook from Star Trek's 1st chef. An exploration of Star Trek cuisine or the earthbound. So he's taken these, you know, things like, you know, frangi puffs and things like this that they eat in episodes. I just don't do any random page. Andorian tuba root. Is there... It gives them... Of course. Okay, gives them earth... ingredients. Sweet potatoes, butter, milk. Is there a Tronya? There is a Tronya drink. Yes, it is fruit juice. But the best thing ever is just like the Doctor Who cookbook, he has got contributors to Star Trek to their own recipes. So I present to you marina services, eggplant casserole. I thought she would just say, well, just put the football on and open some beers. Get the old machine in. Cut it in off. Twisted on a bit of oil. She sounds a bit like Jamie Oliver now, doesn't she? She serve. And that's your dinner, all right. And any of the any of the Roberts to any of the Roberts contribute the recipe? Pretty much every one, a couple of people from every iteration of Star Trek up to Voyager. I think an Enterprise, I think there's there's some, it's an absolute sure. Anyway, I thought every now and again I'll regale you or I'll just turn up eating something. Cook, the funniest. The funniest thing in the world is. Obviously, I bought this book. I was with Mark at the time. I sent him a message in a week saying, oh, I'm going to make dinner tonight. And then when he got in, he was like, oh, I thought we were having something from the Star Trek cookbook. Did he end up watching any more of series one? Did you make it all the way through? We've watched we've watched the 1st 10 episodes of series one. He's enjoying them way more than I am. It's still Star Trek. I mean, it's shitty, but you know, no one died, well, apart from Tashi Yar. And it's, you know, it's a shitty Star Trek season, but you know we love Star Trek. Hey, we can say with some certainty that this is the only time that justice has prompted somebody to do a rewatch of the next generation. That's funny. Holy shit. Right. Now we've been going 15 minutes. We've got to start the actual... Oh no, we have been going 11 minutes. All right, good. That's good, train. That's good length. It would have missed us, I'm sure. Yeah. They're just talking this, talking about this episode. Jesus, I wish you'd have told me this was the tag. You have thrown in more jokes. right. I would have done. Here goes. This is how I charismatic he normally is. Why am I out of focus? Is it the microphone? focussing on the microphone. Okay. Hey, Joe.