Through the Lens of Time

[00:21]

Hey, Joe. Hi.

So, we are back for the third time in Star Trek Strange New World Series 3.

We've done episode one, hegemony, and episode 9 terrarium.

We've done McGorn episodes, and now we are back for episode five, which is through the lens of time.

Now I've done some homework this time.

And it was watching the entire series.

That was a year ago, admittedly.

But I have watched the whole series and on top of that.

I did watch about 20 minutes of what are little girls made of, which is obviously slightly relevant to at least one of the characters in series 3 of Strangely Worlds.

And I can report back that it is not very interesting.

Okay.

How about you just made suddenly makes sense.

[01:23]

Well, I did no homework at all for this.

I simply watched the hour of television that was presented in front of me.

And I'm displeased to say that the 2 Gord episodes that we did were vastly superior to this.

It's kind of funny because this has, this thing about the new series where there are only 10 part stories means that there's basically no room for business as usual stories, I think.

And what we don't get, for instance, are stories like TNG's power play, which has some things in common, I think, with this, in the sense that, you know, it's a big space prison full of disembodied alien entities, but then it all kind of goes to hell. to get rid of that in power play. and just letting Marina camp it up for half an hour.

Why didn't they do that here?

So, yeah, this is probably the closest that we get to business as usual, and even it's not business as usual, because, of course, it's setting up, you know, a whole thing with Marie and all sorts of stuff.

[02:34]

So it looks like business as usual from the point of view of episode five, but it becomes a kind of tent pole for series three.

But series 3, apart from that, is full of things.

I tried to roll one last time, kind of unsuccessfully, but it's got the Trelane episode, Wedding Bell Blues.

It's got a space adventure hour.

I was just looking at the steels on Amazon Prime and I was going, why weren't we doing any of these?

I mean, the one before this, it looks amazingly good.

Incredible.

Space Adventure Hour is their Holodeck episode, which is absolutely brilliant.

The Salada, who ate its tail, is like a Kirk, incredible Kirk kind of Star Trek episode.

What is Starfleet is where pretty little Beto Ortegas, Erica's little brother who's in this, finally produces his documentary about Starfleet, and we get to see that.

4.5 Vulcans, which we saw the, which we saw the trailer of where 4 of them get injected with Vulcan DNA and become Vulcans.

[03:34]

Terrarium, which we've seen, and then the finale, new life and new civilisation.

So in a way, this is the closest that we get to just a kind of business's usual episode.

This felt to me very like a very dreary Star Trek, the next generation episode.

Because I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what I saw in this episode when I watched it, yeah?

divorced of the relationship drama that's going on throughout season three.

I saw everybody beam down to a very boring looking quarry, and then walk into a very boring looking and very underlit prison, right?

Stand in there for 40 minutes talking about the prison and then walk out of the prison, back into the quarry and then beam back on.

That was basically the events are played out.

And then alongside that, I had a 2nd plot about a very sweet young man who's absolutely desperate to go down on the mission on a planet.

Yeah, you tell me, he's been there since the beginning of the season.

He's, um, Nurse Chapel's replacement while she's away at Space University or whatever she's doing, um, who, I just knew the 1st 2nd he opened his mouth, he was dead by the end of this episode because, so, so there was no suspense of any kind in that story.

[04:53]

I was just waiting for the moment where someone pulled a gun out.

I mean, who it was surprised me.

But that was bad.

And so, and even that storyline, I have seen far better alien possession storylines in Star Trek, far better acted, far better written, and certainly far better directed.

Did you see Keiko in that episode of PS9?

She was fucking amazing.

So I had 2 storylines side by side, one which is just a very boring space problem down on the planet and another which was a very predictable position plot.

And I was like, when is this ever going to take off this story?

So I had a different experience watching it in context because I really, really liked Gamble.

I thought he was adorable.

Who's Gamble, the nurse, who is taken over by the fair star?

You know, I'm bad with the names.

So he had been in it for sort of 4 episodes and it's that thing which Star Trek Discovery and Stranger Worlds both do is like they have these sort of guest characters who come in for a bit and they're sort of join the regular cast and then they kind of leave or whatever.

[06:06]

And there's 2 of them here.

Well, I mean, there's Marie, isn't there?

But there's also Beto and then there's Gamble.

And it makes the show seem a bit bigger and it gives everything the sort of scale that the films have because things happen to them week to week that actually change the status quo, that there are relationships among the characters that are kind of going on and that are interesting.

And so enough of that is going on to give the thing a shape and to make it feel like this group of people are going on adventures together and they know each other and stuff.

Whereas, you know, original Star Trek, you tune in every week for an episode that is completely divorced from anything that went before or after, and it all is happening to the same 7 people all the time.

And so I really like Gamble because I love that thing.

That's one of the reasons why I like early Voyager.

I think early Voyager does that as well.

You know Star Trek, right?

Like the 2nd this wreck shirt says he wants to go down on a planet and he can't wait.

He is dead.

He's dead.

[07:06]

Except that he was a semi-regular character.

So this is hem up mark two, right?

Well, he died too.

Yeah, yeah, he did.

But I didn't know that this was Hammerbark too, until at this point, right?

So I just thought he was the lovely kid.

And then this horrible thing happens and I think that's really actually very horrible.

And then I spent the rest of the episode going, please, please, they have to, this is awful.

They have to, you know, they we can't have this.

You know, and that awful scene where Joseph tells him that his brain is dead.

And it's just like, oh, no, no, no, no, this can't be happening.

This can't be happening.

So I had a really strong, I had a really strong viscerally negative reaction to that plot, which is what I fell for it, essentially.

And then when I watched it again in preparation for this, I thought, oh, shit, it's really obvious that he's about to die, isn't it?

Like, you're right.

I said, I bet Joe realises that he's going to die the 2nd that this episode starts.

He probably advanced to get for coming.

I can't wait to get down on that planet.

Thank you so much for the opportunity.

I was like, oh, God, dead.

[08:07]

I completely fell for it the 1st time.

And so there's that.

There's the other thing too, for me, where all that early staff, you know, where about 11 minutes in before we get to the opening credits at all, and all of that stuff is introducing all of these characters and all of the ongoing plots, the Marie plot, the Spock, Christine, Roger Corby plot, which was sort of important in episode two, the Beto plot, all of those things are kind of going on.

We're getting a little bit of kind of a love interest for Ahura in Beto.

All of that stuff is like we are hanging out on the ship for a little while and seeing what everyone's up to before everything gets going and I do kind of like that.

And then I'm just flawed by the visuals of it all.

This is not extremely, yeah, yeah.

I think the front of the temple looks amazing.

I think it's a beautifully interesting design.

I do think that that interior room is less interesting, but this wall.

I could just see the wall everywhere they were.

But at least the wall is doing things in the background to liven up what would have been just a fairly bad, you know, like if this had been, do you remember the underground temple that Hoshi and Trip went...

[09:24]

Well, it was just a sort of piece of jabalai in the middle of stock case set, wasn't it?

And so that was essentially what I was thinking of.

When I saw that, I thought, that's not really quite as good as what we got in through the lens of time.

So, like all of that was sort of, I thought that stuff was interesting.

And frankly, there's an opening scene between Roger and Christine in a corridor outside of Sick Bay, where I thought, the corridor set here, I think makes this scene better than anything that I ever saw in Star Trek the Next Generation. really, the corridor.

I mean, that's not different for me.

That's not always here, let's be honest.

Okay, so many things to say about what you just said there.

Where do I start?

You didn't need to worry about waiting 11 minutes for the story to start because the story never gets going in this.

I mean, have you ever seen the X-Files episode redux?

It's the Star series 5, right?

And Moldron Scully basically just go around a load of boring, dark rooms with torches, spouting off exposition.

[10:27]

I was getting huge reduct vibes in the middle, 30 minutes of this episode as these characters that I am so used to being written with charisma and wit, even in dire situations.

We've watched dramatic episodes of Strange New Worlds where these characters are funny and vital and really enjoyable to watch.

I was getting nothing in those scenes at all.

Everyone's talking in a very flat, calm way.

Everyone's talking about the space problem.

It was so dull.

I was just like, when is this going to start moving.

I didn't recognise this.

This was like TNG for me. like a bad TNG episode.

I just didn't recognise this as the Strange New World that usually feels so effervescent.

It was just weird.

And as for the other plot, you're not going to like me for saying this, I didn't think it was nasty enough.

I thought, I thought when he went back to the ship, and then they put those sort of weird um, melon bean style glasses on him, that's a niche reference for you.

[11:38]

And he's trying to give a performance with those space specs on.

And it was really tough for him to do that.

So then they take them off and then I just don't think the makeup was up to the job because it just looks like someone's put a load of sort of bruising makeup on his eyes.

Oh, I just felt like it should have been...

They've used CGI to make them holes.

I'm closer to the screen now, so I'll have a good look.

I think they're very convincingly holes, and I couldn't bear, like, I just thought that was horrible.

Like, I just, I found that unpleasant.

Jeremy, I've got no I've got no emotional connection to this character.

This is the 1st time I've ever seen him.

Yeah, yeah.

That's the pain, right?

somebody is going to tune into this that hasn't seen the whole season.

So, like, there is a danger.

Like, you do kind of have to do a bit of that, you know.

Not now. on streaming.

Well, maybe that's the problem with their approach then.

Why their numbers are so terrible.

No, no, I mean, I don't know that their numbers are terrible, but it is the streaming approach is that you aren't expecting people to tune in for an episode because people are bought in or they are.

That's how people watch TV now. that's why TV's made it the way it is.

[12:42]

We've jumped into Cosman episodes like this before where I've had to catch up with where the characters are in certain moments.

Yeah.

And there's a weird, awkwardness between Nurse Chapel and La Arn in this episode because La Arn spending time.

And that's not enjoyable to watch at all. said that the episode resolves it.

That's what the episode is in part about is, you know, they're in that eccentric space in the temple.

And of course, it's all resolved in that fantastic moment, I think, where they stand together and she holds her hand.

Still didn't make the opening scenes of this episode fun to watch.

I was just like, why have we even gone here?

What's happening?

And what, the result of it, the result of it is, I don't like Nurse Chappel.

And I didn't like her in the singing episode where she was being a cunt, Spock.

And I don't like her here where she's going, oh, you're spending an awful lot of time with Spock.

No, you made your choices, love.

All right?

You made your choices.

I think what's happening in that scene is that she's actually a bit relieved that Spock is with Lamar.

[13:44]

Because she's worried.

Oh, that was how I read it because she's worried that Spock, again, I think maybe in context is clearer. that she was worried that Spock would misbehave because of his jealousy towards Roger, which, of course, was the subject of episode two.

The Trelean thing, which isn't sort of properly resolved. sort of amicable and stuff.

And one of the things that I really liked, was Laan in that scene kind of going, we're all grown-ups just go and talk to him.

Do you know what I mean?

Which is something that people should say on television to each other far more often, I think.

But it wasn't a resolution in terms of it felt like, I don't know, I didn't feel anything.

I was just like, okay, fine.

They resolved this weird awkwardness between them.

But it was, it didn't feel like, I don't know, strangely, else is better at this.

It is better at making me feel something.

It's better at making me feel fun.

It is better at presenting great visuals on the screen.

I don't know.

It just all felt a bit flat.

Okay.

[14:45]

Little bit similar to what happened, though, the last discovery that we watched as well.

And I do think that you need to control for the fact that you haven't seen the surrounding episodes, I think.

Well, that's the premise of this podcast, though, isn't it?

Is that we're going in watching single episodes. that we normally have.

We normally have.

I don't have a bloody time to watch a whole season just in order to make one episode make sense.

No, that's fair enough.

I mean, I felt more for twisted than this.

At least I felt anger about that, about how truly it all.

I just sort of walked through the hour of this going, at some point this is going to take off and it kind of didn't.

I think the high concept ones are easier to watch in isolation. what we have turned...

I just had that on, floating through it in a princess dress.

I would have been all over it.

I started singing a song about all systems working and that would have been great.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I think what we've done is the 2 seasons I know little about, we somehow managed to roll.

[15:47]

I think you're responsible both times as well.

The very sort of TRAD Star Trek episodes that they do.

It was the Discovery one in 5 and it was this episode in Strange New Worlds.

And I think I've sort of come to the conclusion.

I don't really want discovery or strange new worlds to do boring trad TNG episodes.

I want them to just go wild and unique and imaginative and do their own thing.

Yeah.

There will be a puppet episode coming up.

Oh, why didn't we roll that one?

Well, it's not up yet.

Maybe I'm being too mean.

I think the only thing I really just can't bear is being bored.

Make me hate it and make me love it.

Just don't bore me, you know?

And we've had episodes, haven't we?

We've had plenty of TOS episodes where we've just been so bored all the way through.

And you're right in a 10 episode season.

I don't even know if there's a place for an episode like this really anymore.

I feel like every episode should be impressing in one way or another.

[16:50]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It is a little bit kind of standard.

I mean, to me, I thought there's a kind of weird Indiana Jonesness to, you know, these sort of weird temply kind of ancient spaces and stuff, which Star Trek doesn't do all that often.

There could have been a bit of energy though, right?

Make that into Anna Jones.

Make them swinging in on vines and things.

Yeah, there's not any action or anything.

Do you remember that sequence?

We watched in discovery.

I can't remember what episode it was now.

It was a season opener, and it was Burnham and book, and they was flying around on a spaceship on this insane planet.

It went on for about 10 minutes.

Do you remember?

And there was glowing trees and creatures coming after them and also?

That's what I'm used to.

God, it was.

That's amazing it was.

Yeah, yeah.

Brilliant.

I was like, well, I mean, it does look more impressive than TNG, but aside from that, this could be TNG, you know?

Well, everyone's prettier though.

There is that.

That is a definite bonus.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's why I didn't like him putting the glasses on because he was very pretty.

[17:53]

The fella, though.

Yeah.

Sorry, sad.

All right, okay.

You should go in.

I'm sorry.

I really want to like Kurtzman trick.

Well, stop choosing these duds for me, all right?

All right.

Next time I'll keep rolling until we get space adventure hour.

Whatever the one is where they were already dressed up like gangsters.

Can we watch that one next, please?

episodes.

That's bloody amazing.

To be fair, I mean, those gone episodes this year, we're just out of this world.

Remember when there was all inside the larder in episode one?

And then, of course, the lovely gaunt lady in the last one saying, affirmative.

Oh, good.

Negative.

I know there's great stuff here.

So maybe one always just falls to the wayside a bit.

Maybe that's it.

Maybe that's it.

All right.

I will count in. 543, two, one, and we are off.

I dent.

[18:53]

Hi, Jen.

Okay, cool.

Excellent.

Oh, so there are 26 episodes of Kurtzman Trek left.

That makes me sad.

I want them to make something sad.

There's no Doctor Who and there's no Star Trek being made. made at the moment.

That hasn't happened since the 60s.

Well, they used to alternate.

I mean, it's very, it's a thing.

So I did watch Roger Corby in what were little girls made of?

What are little girls made of?

Oh, I said that already, and it's terrible.

It is really just not very good.

What it about?

He's a robot.

So it's many years later and Christine hasn't seen him for years and he's underground on a planet, he's gone missing and he's terribly famous and then the guy who, um, the very tall.

Oh, no, this is I'll tell you what, I love ortakers his hair for this season.

[19:54]

They're all shaved up sides.

Exactly in it.

She said, well, it's always shaved up the sides, but it's a bit flatter, I think.

Yeah, it looks great.

Oh, here he is.

What's the man's name?

Just so I get it right.

Gamble.

Gamble.

Gamble.

Oh, he took a gamble.

Gam boy Nest, didn't he?

Oh, he's so cute.

God, he's gorgeous.

Jesus Christ.

I was getting Vinder vibes from the Doctor Who flux season, you know?

The fabulous dreadlocks cut the eyes.

Jacob Anderson.

Yeah.

I wouldn't have objected to him being in this iPad.

Oh, I love Mabenga.

Yeah.

And see, that was it as well.

You know, like he, well, there's a line here where, where he says, you know, it's no secret.

I was fond of the boy or whatever.

And like, but that's not just, you know, that's something that we have seen over these few episodes.

And so, like I said before, this is the hammer thing.

You know, like they make us think he's a new semi-regular and then they have a big episode where they kill him off.

And obviously his death, like Hemmer's death is like unbelievable and I still haven't recovered from it.

[20:57]

Whereas this one's kind of unpleasant.

And of course, the actor will be back for the finale.

It might have been the trouble for me, and I'll take a good look when I get there.

Like, I think the actor that plays my Bengas, understatedness, it is a massive strength to his performance.

But when you need a big emotional moment to hear, yeah, it worked in that one with the little girl, the, was that the Serene Squall?

No what was it called?

No, no.

You know, the one with the one that was his kid.

That was there because that was a father-daughter scene.

Whereas here, it was so understated at the end, I was like, does he care?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I do like his like his very low level thing.

So, yeah, it's this corridor.

Look at this corridor.

Can you believe that?

What a lovely corridor.

That's the nicest thing I'll say.

It's beautiful.

It's so shiny.

Shiny surfaces.

All those things I like about Star Trek are here. right.

It's just man Irish.

Yes, but not in the, not in um, weirdly not in original trek.

[22:02]

Well, obviously... about how, you know, accents can drift when you move away from your homeland, you know?

So maybe that's what happened with him.

Oh, maybe that's it.

But when you become a robot, maybe.

Maybe it's the robot thing.

Maybe it's the robot.

He didn't have an Irish voice modulator.

That filter was on.

Put the English filter on quick.

Although Christine does recognise his voice immediately over the over the communicator in original track.

Nathan, I have to tell you this, but I've sort of just been wiggling my mouse over the screen, yeah, and you get a picture of IMDb pictures for all the actors, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jess Bush.

I mean, in that picture, she looks like sex on legs.

Have you got, she's an alien, you know?

She's Australian.

Honestly, Christina, some episodes of home and away.

Christina Chong's in a beautiful red dress on earth.

It's not the one. the beautiful red dress from the Elysian kingdom, though.

Well, no, no.

[23:03]

She's not got a tiara and a bloody magic wand. a cavoodle.

You see, I actually quite like this because these are 2 women. and unfortunately, it fails the Bechdale test because we basically talk about Spock. and so absolutely signally fails the Bechdale test.

They must ace that quite a bit on this show.

There are so many women on this show.

Yes, they do.

But this isn't one of those scenes.

But I did think that that was agreeable and I do like her saying, well, to God's take on talk to him like a journal.

He's how Jess is playing chapel.

I was just like, what are you thinking in this moment?

Yeah, yeah. because I think she's relieved.

I think that she's actually happy that Spark's getting his end away because she feels less bad, obviously about dumping him.

And also, you know, they did have that big thing in episode two, which is also pretty great.

You know what it is right, right?

Not just his infectious enthusiasm that puts a target on this kid's back.

They've sort of squeezed him into this very tight uniform where he looks just like a little kid going to school on the 1st light.

[24:08]

Everything about him just screams, you are dead.

I know, I know.

I can't believe I fell for it.

It was literally, I've watched it twice in the lead up to this.

And like the 1st time I watched it was just like, yep, that was how I felt about it last time.

Oh, see that hug as well.

Oh my god.

He goes and then he goes, oh, he's almost crying out.

Oh, dead, dead.

Yeah, yeah.

But this time I thought, 0 my god, he's so dead.

How did that happen?

I don't remember feeling like that.

I think my mango should have gone. are you sure?

Like anyone who tends to go this enthusiastically down to the planet.

Yeah, it does tend to die.

Look at this tracking shot down the corridor, look.

Unfortunately, I can't look at the corridor because the man's walking down it and he's so pretty.

Oh, now, say no, we're having a bit of awkwardness now here between Spock and Nurse Chapel.

Yes, we are.

We are.

We may have had a romance once, but you decided to go to Space University, so that's that over.

[25:09]

No, no, she went off with Roger Corby to do archeology, space archeology.

That's why they're together. what they were singing about in subspace Rhapsody.

That's right.

That's right.

So this is all the way back to there.

No, because we had 3 months over the interseason break.

Oh, see.

All right.

Oh, whatever, in-store explanation.

Yeah, 3 months between, it's 3 months. gamble's been there for 3 months when we 1st meet him and so everyone knows him and that's in episode two.

So, obviously, hedgeman, he finishes the hedgeman story, then episode 2 is the wedding episode.

It's when Celia Gooden Jr.'s hair suddenly gets Bauer.

It gets better.

And she meets Beto and starts flirting with him as well.

I just think is terribly cute.

It's funny, you know, Nathan, when they have these free month gaps between season, nothing happens on the enterprise in those free months, because everyone's exactly where we left them.

Do you know what?

The one time that that doesn't happen in Star Trek, the Next Generation is one of my favourite moments in Star Trek, the next generation, at the beginning of season two, in the child, where we go, everything's changed.

[26:13]

Oh, he's Pulaski.

Here's the thing.

And you kind of think, wow.

And now we've got big new sets and like it just all feels a bit bigger and a bit more like a film.

Well, generally speaking, the 2 part then does just lead into the next episode, doesn't it?

They needed the free month gap to explain the hair.

Well, yeah, they didn't because they just put a stupid wig on her for...

Enormous head that she had.

Only Dax's hair has ever covers high up the head.

So there's another ongoing plot too, which is that Pelia wants to be in Beddo's documentary.

Yeah, that was the best gag of the whole thing, man.

So, I do want to know, again for the Cameron?

He goes, yeah, no, I'm right.

Which I just thought was great.

But she does it here too.

Yeah, look, there we see that like we see the cameras eye view and she's going, oh, you know, if you want to see anything in engineering and stuff.

So yeah, like, uh, that's adorable.

[27:13]

When we actually see the documentary, she's not in it at all.

She's not even in a frame of it.

And no one comments on it.

And it's clearly a deliberate gap.

Does she do it?

Does she say anything?

No, no, because she's not in it. the documentary, the document, the episode is the documentary.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, it doesn't have any credit. anything like that.

Did it take you for the whole season then?

Well, it does and other stuff, but it talks about the thing.

But it talks about his feeling about what Starfleeties and the change and stuff.

See, I, so, so, um, we...

Oh, now look at that.

That could be the planet Xarius, couldn't it?

Well, I think it looks like the planet from, what was it called?

Um, if memory serves or something, the season 2 Discovery episode. butterflies going around the place.

But it was essentially a big quarry.

Do you know what it looks like?

[28:13]

I've just watched the Doctor Who story, The Mutants.

It looks very like a quarry from that.

But what it does that those don't do is just because it's widescreen and because, you know, we've got a huger area that we have clear.

Do you know what I mean?

Like it just seems bigger.

Like it seems bigger than the quarries did in original trek or in Doctor Who, just the scale of the location.

It's very gray, though, like those.

It is very great.

I think that alien looks great.

Well, he's quite gray as well.

It's all very gray.

Charles.

No, he's blue, really.

I'm not seeing a lot of, even their clothes are matts.

Like nobody's got any colour on the screen at all.

I was thinking too, that like there is a sort of weird thing about how they, when they go down, they put them in sort of space outfits that hide how technicolour their their costumes are, and they've done that right since series one.

Why would you do that?

That's a mistake.

We love their technicolic cost.

Just one of the things we love about 60s straight, right?

[29:15]

Is it?

Everybody's...

That's right what's the word we use?

It pops.

The colours pop.

Yeah.

Oh, he's so pretty.

Who's this boy?

Beto. yeah.

That's Ortegas's brother.

Okay.

Well, the looks are in the family then, aren't they?

Yeah, good genius.

We made at the wedding.

We made at the wedding.

Nathan.

You can't be joking about it.

Was she hiding all of that hair underneath that cap?

If that's the case, they did a really good job.

They did a pretty good job.

You got a lot of hair.

So much air.

I love that shot of the Enterprise up in the air too.

And then I think this, like the temple...

Cylons are set.

You're right.

This is just like power play.

It's 3 themes doing a light.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Absolutely.

What was that?

That was the pattern enhances, though, wasn't it?

Pat and hot.

Yeah, just the things they stab in the ground.

Yeah.

Because they're constantly trying to get them inside them in 10 forward, aren't they?

[30:16]

Yeah, he's the opening credits.

That man's body language there, the guy that dies.

I mean, he couldn't look more green, could he?

He sort of holding himself like a doll.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, this is my favourite bit of the whole episode.

Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun.

Oh, stunning.

I got a little bit misty when I 1st saw it because I just thought it was so beautiful.

Who's Babs?

Oh, that's uh, that's sort of anger.

Ah, okay.

I think, um, you know what?

I'm sort of re-categorizing my favourites in this now.

I think Pellia is my all-time favourite now.

Just because she's so funny.

Like in this utterly funless episode, she's the one person that gave me 2 gags.

I was very happy about that.

Well, we've had one already and then we have the one at the end.

Is there another one?

Did she do another one?

[31:17]

We'll keep an eye out for it.

Okay.

Oh, look at these stunning landscapes.

Why didn't we go to any of these places this week?

It always looks slightly more interesting than the actual episode.

I mean, what's this?

The volcano planets.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ice glaciers.

Oh boy.

And they change it every year.

Indeed.

They do change it every year.

Wow, look at that. inside that globe.

Yes, they start.

That's the sabe that Bob April's in.

We've seen it.

It has been in that middle.

Would you fancy a holiday with me to Starbase one?

I would love to go to Starbase one.

We'll go and get those flying moon boots that he had in Star Trek 5 and walk climb those mountains, right?

sing around the fireplace. wonderful.

That's right Okay, right.

Is this story going to start now?

Not really.

Is this really does look very, very, very, very much like if memory serves. such a beautiful shot.

[32:20]

See, that's beautiful, but again, I just want to, they're using a filter here, aren't they?

It is...

I don't know how they're doing it, actually.

I don't know how they're doing it.

Like, it looks... look at the uniforms.

The uniforms look darker than they do up on the ship when they're really bright.

So the aliens are called the macroons, and I just think that it's such a perfect TOS era alien name, don't you think?

got an apostrophe.

It's got apostrophe.

Oh, my God, I burst into song at any minute than the crew.

Oh, they taste lovely or made out of old.

I hate macaroons.

You're joking.

Oh, I had a macaron taro on my wedding.

They're the shittiest biscuit.

It's a digestive.

Oh no, I quite like a digestive, actually.

What am I thinking?

A rich team.

They're very boring.

Oh my god.

Okay.

Look, don't you think that the doorway looks very like the Pandorica from series 5 of Dr. Who?

Yeah, it does a bit, doesn't it?

[33:22]

So I can see what you're saying there that they're going for this sort of Indiana Jones going to explore somewhere.

And there's something vaguely, there's something vaguely kind of Japanese about it with that black wood and all of that sort of thing and everything being very geometrical, you know, inside.

I do think that there's something strange.

Like, you ordinarily would just go for big, you know, crappy wooden stone blocks.

Yeah?

And this doesn't do that.

And there is something, like, I think, because, you know, last week, it was a holodeck episode.

And again, you kind of think, well, we've had a lot of holodeck episodes.

Why are we doing another holiday episode?

And then you kind of think, well, no, let's see what this production crew does with a holodeck episode.

Let's look at what a holodeck episode looks like when it's made in 2025.

When the distance on the dust sails on Strange New Worlds.

It's not episodes like this that anyone is going to remember.

No, no, I don't think it's a big high concept once for people to go, do you remember when they did gangsters?

But I still think that it's like, well, what does what does PowerPlay look like made in 2025?

[34:27]

Do you know what I mean?

And I think that's worth doing.

I think it looks good.

Oh, no, it looks good, but it's...

This is far duller than power player.

We thought that was a bit dull.

Oh, no, I think PowerPie is much worse than I remember.

Oh, it's...

Yeah, you've got meringue.

Get down on the floor.

That's true, but that's not perhaps quite enough, I think.

Actually, it's just I said to you, I just think this is about 15 minutes too long.

I don't think there's enough story to feel 55 minutes here. exemplified by the fact that we had 11 minutes of character work at the start.

Yeah, yeah, but I think that's a...

Even then, the mystery down, it just wasn't moving at any kind of, it was glacial.

These scenes when they're inside now, and they reach conclusions 40 minutes in, that TNG episode would reach 20 minutes in.

Oh, no, no, but the conclusion that this is a prison needs to come late in the episode because that's the big discovery.

[35:28]

If it was 40 minutes.

Yeah, but yeah, yeah.

But yeah, no, but it's, it's, so it needs to come late because that's the big reveal.

We're revealing the big villains for the finale. you know what I mean?

And possibly further on.

But you see what I mean here?

They've gone in from that gray quarry now into a very dark space with no colour in it.

There's just nothing to impress my eyes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it is a bit constrained, but wait until they turn the wall on, though.

There's pretty things.

I want to talk to you about that because why is it?

Yeah, you say you can always see the wall.

Whereas for me, sometimes I can't, and sometimes I can, and here I could, and but sometimes in Strange New Wales, I'm totally convinced that they're on an Indian planet.

I think that your immunity wears off at a particular and then that's it.

You can never see it again.

Although I still, I still can't always tell where the, um, I still can't tell where the um, engineering room ends and the, and the wall begins.

[36:28]

Look at this.

Oh, I forgot his name again.

Will you help me?

Gamble.

Gamble.

For God's sakes, that's such a memorable name.

Why am I forgetting that?

Did you see him when he saw the corpse?

sort of bug eyes.

Oh my god, a body.

Yeah, yeah.

You are dead, mate.

All right.

Do you know what?

Celia Gooding Jr.

Isn't she absolutely beautiful?

She's stunning.

Oh, great.

I just think she's a junior fan.

Should not worry about these boring CGI effects. just linger on all the women all the time because they're so pretty.

Or Ethan.

Never mind, Ethan.

Celia Gooden.

Or pretty little Chris, so whatever his name is.

What's his name?

Chris.

So I started following him on Instagram.

He just did his 1st Doctor Who.

He just did his 1st Star Trek convention.

Oh, that's great.

Oh, I hope he's adorable.

Exception.

I forgot a feeding, the Star Trek fans, you know, these things are much nicer than the Doctor Who fans are at these things.

[37:31]

That's possible.

Yeah, that is possible.

They're sort of raised high as real celebrities, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And like he's done what, 5 episodes of Star Trek.

Do you know what I mean?

Like, but that's a lot.

That's half a season.

He's in half the episodes of season three.

This guy, this guy's makeup looks so good. a sort of logic puzzle that looks a bit like his face once, you know?

It's sort of porcelain or something.

Do you know what I mean?

Like a sort of deco.

They've certainly got the legs.

It's fair, haven't they?

in Kurzman Train.

Yeah, yeah.

They just went for like horrible black lenses back in the day or those awful ones they put Brent in in serious quantity engines.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Terrible.

But I think this that looks really strange and really inventive.

They've just not done the putting bridges on an American lady kind of approach.

The DNG introduced.

But because this isn't really a horror, right?

They're not doing a horror here.

They're doing, it's like a puzzle box.

It's a science puzzle box with a bit of atmosphere.

So why are there any jokes?

[38:31]

Why isn't this funny?

It would make it so much more enjoyable.

Yeah, yeah, we didn't have funny in that scene, did we at all?

No, at each other so seriously, and no one's serious in strange new worlds until they have to be.

Oh here we go.

Careful.

Careful now.

I did like Laan earlier.

Oh my goodness.

Oh, that's it.

It exploded in his face.

So is he already dead now then?

And the thing's taken over him.

I think so, yeah.

Oh okay.

Oh my word.

See, that's horrible. running down his face.

But the empty sockets.

Like the sockets are empty.

That's why they put the glasses on him, isn't it?

I thought, we can't be having this.

Well, because they have to, they have to do CG.

Like they have to put the holes in his head using computer things.

You know what I mean?

It isn't just makeup.

Those glasses, I mean, who designed those camp glasses?

[39:33]

very funny.

Because it, it, they actually work because it's that 60s kind of sensibility that Stranger Worlds has in its design. 70s, it's Oscar Mellenby, remember, from Blake 7?

I think he's Roger, isn't he?

Roger's worse.

Yeah, somehow.

It's another Roger because we have a Roger here.

And so and so what happens here?

So it's not opened up.

It is still sort of fairly dull.

Oh no, there's the wall in the background.

There's the ball.

I can't really see it.

It's very dark.

It's barely on. turned it down.

Turn it down.

See what I mean by those redox vibes, you know, just lots of sort of torchlights, picking outfits and boxes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So yeah, we've got to leave, though.

I mean, something bad has already happened, and so we just have to go.

And then we have a talk about that for a while.

Actually, the one nice thing about having the gamble there is gone now, so unfortunately it's no longer relevant.

Well, so at least he was showing some excitement for all this.

Some enthusiasm, everybody else just looked so bored. is doing their job.

[40:36]

And so, which can be boring, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh no, trust me.

So Najal has recognised the big statue in the next room. and has said for the 1st time the name of the alien threat, which is the Vesda, is that?

Yeah, it's the Vesta.

Oh, that was a crazy.

There.

Now, because there's no people against it.

That just looked like it was going off into the distance.

Now, look at them next to it.

It looks so close.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, it's like Pandora's box, isn't it there, right?

really is.

And so there's a, yeah, ugh, to see this, this is so upsetting.

Now, do you know what I was thinking of?

I was comparing this to, um, do you remember in uh, Waters of Mars, the Doctor Who story, where the woman gets possessed by the water and then she's in the sort of sick bay and goes, you know, we should have so much water.

[41:36]

And I was thinking, I could have done with a bit of that.

He's very underplaying all of this in a minute.

Yeah, my favourite bit, though.

He does a really proper, like, I'm possessed moment for the 1st time, which is just being done just for the camera, where he kind of, he does this sort of, he still has the glasses on, but he sort of just turns.

It's just like, just in case you're not sure that I'm evil.

Equality possessed tactics.

A propane could have turned that well. so good.

I do I really do like the red blood against the white.

Yeah, yeah.

I sent you a message and I said it's just like Avery in the image of the sand when he's in white overalls.

It just makes it feel more in your gut, doesn't it?

Oh, what's happening to him.

Yeah.

Yeah, no, I thought it was really nasty and it reminded me how gore...

I thought.

Pike comes in and goes, well, how's he doing?

Oh, well, I think, yeah, things aren't going to turn out well for him.

He goes, well, you know, bad things happen to people.

And then he walks off.

[42:37]

No, no.

But that's not what he's doing.

He's asking Mbenga how he is, how are you holding up?

Are you okay?

And he goes, it was my fault it was my fault.

And he says, no, no, you need to go.

Do you know what I mean?

you're not responsible for this.

You can't protect everyone.

Well, if that is what happened there.

There's got a great deal of empathy happening for the kids.

No, that seems to be about my bingo.

There's not really a lot happening about the kid.

But Benga's just hurting.

The kids had his eyes burnt out.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I bet Joseph's dealing with that.

He's not in the opening credits either, to be fair.

Okay, so it's fair game.

They should have done the Joss Whedon fiction.

I mean, the credits just for this episode.

Well, the hammer thing, let's say.

Did they do that, did they?

With Emma.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bruce Horax.

Well, it's just in one episode.

No, no, no.

Oh, for all of them.

Okay.

No, no, Joss put Amber Benson's name.

Just in her deaf episode.

[43:38]

Yes, bastard.

Okay, so what are we talking seriously about now?

So we're talking about the door and getting through the door.

Yeah, I see what you mean.

Riveting stuff. talking about the door, isn't it?

This is reminding me a bit of twisted, but with some visual ambition.

I did make that point.

Actually, I did say that like Twisted, this has eccentric spaces.

Yeah, but look, look at the difference, though.

Yeah, yeah, it is a little bit better than twisted, is it?

Because I mean, it was just that thing where we're walking around the sets that we see every week, but we're surprised by where we end up.

It was so bad.

But in Twisted, we at least had, you know, um, B'lana and Harry screaming out Tetla babble at each other, trying to create some sense of, this bunch, they're all just...

Yeah, they're doing it very gently.

Maybe we'll go through the door at some point.

Well, you go over to that console there and press a few buds, right?

You stand there, right?

Okay, you go through that beam of light.

[44:40]

I mean, come on, this is plodding.

But what ends up happening, and again, it's super obvious in retrospect, and I don't know how I saw it the 1st time, is that they're all in the same room, and they're all in the same room because there's some quantum thing happening, and, you know, it's different realities that cause them to be immortal or whatever.

And there is a pretty great scene of technobabble later on where both Christine and Laan say, yeah, I have no idea what that means.

I don't know either.

But it does put them in the same space in different kind of, you know, they're not able to see one another.

But it divides up the people who need to be...

That always works well, doesn't it?

from each other.

We separate.

But they don't.

They're all still in the same room for the rest of the time.

But, and they, remember they look around and they're not there.

Do you know what I mean?

They walk through and it's just like, where did where did the others go?

You know, they all went in together, but Beto and Uhura didn't come through with them.

So they weren't splitting up.

I do like the wolves look like they're breathing at the moment.

[45:40]

That's quite nice.

It reminded me of that enterprise one we watched, you know, where you just saw things moving in the background of scenes all the time.

Yeah.

What about this statue?

Um.

Well, yes, I wouldn't have it at home, but no, but it's very, like, I think it's very weird.

It has these sort of strange feminine, do you know what I mean?

Like, it's like, it's almost like it's a female nude, but it's weird.

There.

Sorry, I'm so obsessed with the war at the moment.

So there was a shot of them.

They were quite small on the screen.

It was a wide shot with the distance going back.

Now that was convincing.

Then it cut to a mid-shot close to them against the wall and that looked fake.

So I think it's where you position them within the frame.

But I also think that it's helped by the fact that the, because the world's computer generated and the, and the camera movements are involved in it, there were some tracking shots where things looked like they were moving in the distance behind Spock and Roger in that scene, which I think looks great.

[46:48]

This one where we're sort of pulling back from the 2 women and the background is sort of following the tracking shot.

All of that stuff, I think, works.

I think that works really well.

And it does make, it does give visual interest to a scene that would otherwise be just set in a broom.

It does fascinate me, though.

It does fascinate me talking about that technology because it is utterly dependent, seem to seem on the choices that they make. whether my brain can just go with it and say, yes, that's or no, they're in a studio against a bit of glass.

I remember because the volume is much bigger, the one that Industrial Light and Magic had that they did the Mandalorian for.

And like initially, I thought that's all shot on location.

I can't believe it. so incredible.

And now when I look at it, I go, how did I fall for that for a second?

I suppose when it's new.

I mean, go back and watch Jurassic Park now.

At the time, we were like, oh, my God.

I think it's still kind of, I think it's still sort of hold up.

[47:50]

I learned the other day, Nathan, that they were going to do stop star animation for Jurassic Park. and they did some tests.

Imagine.

Ray Harry House and dinosaurs.

Oh my god.

Oh here we go.

So he's still in no specs at the moment.

He looks funny.

I'm sorry.

I know that's not the effect, but it is a bit camp.

He sits up and then he just turns his head towards Ubenga and that's it.

That's his. evil.

He should have turned straight to the camera.

Did you see that?

All right.

I am evil.

I mean, I don't think it's a bad performance.

I think it's really hard to deliver that wearing those glasses.

Yeah, yeah.

And the glasses are there literally for budgetary reasons, right?

Because the effect of the eye sockets is...

They didn't have a budget on Strange New Worlds.

Yeah, yeah, they do.

Oh, yeah, it doesn't...

No, no, you can always tell.

[48:50]

Star Trek always.

I mean, it's, we, we weren't so painfully aware of it in the 90s as we are now.

How?

But how will we not say that?

Well, our critical faculties of the 19th.

Good gold.

But I think you can see where they're saving money in these shows even now. like even in the movies.

What I like is it doesn't really stop them.

Like, they have such visual imagination in Cursman Trek.

And even when a scene, there's very often we'll watch a scene where you don't need the additional quirky things that are flying in and stuff, the dots on that, but they'll do it anyway, just because it looks great.

So a little rare reference to Christina's background?

Because she's reading Chinese?

Okay, does that not get mentioned a lot then?

No, I don't think so.

She gets mentioned as a, you know, descendative, like the Noonian Singh family, the Noonian song or whatever family.

[49:50]

Oh, Nathan, the beholder is in constant flux.

Is he the hero or not?

I just couldn't be less interested in this.

Look at how Christina makes fun of this.

So there's a couple of times.

Yeah.

She goes, great.

What does that mean?

No, I don't know.

Not a clown.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

So we have a little bit...

No, I belly laugh, though, is it?

No, no, but it is undercutting and making them seem more normal. than TNG people spouting technobabble.

And that's technobabble that we have to hear because that's, you know, that's important to the thing, the recipe.

You know what this needs?

It needs a bit of action.

It needs a bit of running around.

It needs some danger.

I just don't feel like I feel like I'm watching them.

I don't know, do a Chinese puzzle box for 30 minutes.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Well, and and the thing is that there has been danger.

There's been a jar and there's been, um, uh, gamble, obviously, but nothing seems very urgent.

[50:52]

And, you know, again, Najal was definitely going to die as well, maybe even more so. got Spock in one of the 2 pairings here and he's generally quite serious.

You've got like on in the other 2 pairs, even when she's with you.

She's quite serious in these very dark rooms where nothing's moving very fast.

I mean, there's something about putting these 2 together just given the way that they've been relating to each other all season.

But it doesn't really go anywhere.

And what ends up happening is, of course, the crucial moment where Christine says, no, I'm not going to do what you say, Roger, I have to trust Spock.

And there's that, the conversation that they have earlier about whether to leave or not, where she is having a little bit, there's some frisson about their relationship happening there as well, which he calls back to.

So there is sort of stuff, there is sort of interpersonal stuff going on, but they don't make a big deal of it. there's no scene about it, but it is there in the story, giving it a little bit more texture, I think.

[51:57]

I do like Spock saying, I'm not having gamble wearing all the great vices in this episode.

Yeah, I'm going to find my own one.

This fair one.

Yeah.

Oh my word.

What was that monster there that just leapt out happening?

So that is, that's a great jump scare too.

That's a much of it, didn't you?

No, no.

We have seen it slightly.

I think we've seen that weird mouth theme before.

And we will see it again this episode in association with Marie. and but that's the Vesda in the in its little prison.

Nathan, you know your sort of strange kink that we've discovered on TikTok, you know, of walking female corpses covered in KY, things like that.

I think I've developed a taste for androgynous looking people, you know, in Kurtzman Trek.

I think Ortegus looks absolutely gorgeous now with only.

Yeah, she is great.

And I think the fella, her brother is quite androgynous looking as well. really pretty, isn't he?

[53:00]

And what in discovery?

What was her name?

Beautiful.

Yeah.

Yeah, that is a cute little boyish haircut that she's got going there, isn't it?

Oh, she is.

No, this is I, this is her being serious.

Yeah, so too serious, yeah.

No, she undercuts it with the word hee-jeebies.

I don't have the scientific feeling for it, but it gives you the heebie-jeebies.

Which I did smile at, but I think I probably could have been made to laugh in this scene.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. a pretty low-key kind of joke.

It's a hair.

Pike's hair looks terrible in this episode.

Yeah, yeah, it's just getting taller and taller every episode.

Yeah.

Oh my word.

Look, now, look, if you just squinted, you could be in Robert Picardo's sick bay there, couldn't you?

It's a beautiful set, isn't it?

That's new, I think, in this season or last season.

It's the science room set that they have.

Oh, look at the graphics with the dots going up and down the lines, like in Beverly Crushes, Sick Bay.

[54:01]

Oh, heaven.

There we go.

All I need now is those sort of coloured liquids that she's got in big vats.

Those are in original track.

The dots going up and down the line.

Do you remember that weird thing where people sort of put their feet on the walls and kick?

I want that.

See, now the ceiling's too high and it's hard to do it. but I want to see the banger. find a way.

The ceiling, one part of it comes down, you know?

Yeah.

Okay, so now we're talking about Rakia, the daughter, who we saw at the end of Elysian Kingdom.

This was a creepy scene, I thought.

But again, he's struggling with those glasses.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, you wonder whether the nastiness of what he says there would have been more effective had they just taken the glasses off him.

You know?

I mean, I probably wouldn't have burnt out his eyes.

I probably would have just let him use his eyes.

I bet that actor can properly, you know, give it some.

Yeah, but the burning out the eyes is so horrible though, and I think they really wanted to go properly horrible.

[55:02]

And so, of course, when he comes back.

Oh, this bit.

Now they come in and they're all talking this weird space.

Cali catcher.

Zakeba.

I was getting it.

I was getting Jake and Kira on the promenade vine.

So was I. No, this is a better fight though.

They just stand there throwing pixie dust at each other. beams at each other.

Yeah, this is an actual shit out of each other.

This was the one point where my pulse started racing a tiny bit.

Well, you know what I've said before.

Although this, I don't think this is a cheap.

This is not a cheap fight, is it?

It's pretty well choreographed.

Punches sort of face people being thrown over beds.

Oh, Pike, don't come in and ruin the farm.

Yuck.

That's it.

And he runs off.

I mean, I was also getting, do you remember, you know, his eyes like that, yeah?

all getting Musaka vibes from masks.

[56:02]

Wait till you see what he wears in episode 10.

Who?

Uh, that the boy, that the young lad.

What gamble?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. didn't he die in this?

He's the big band.

This is the villain origin story for the big villain for episode 10.

Oh, sorry, I didn't realise that.

Does he get a great cliffhanger then later in the season?

My God.

No, we don't see him again.

We don't see him again.

And so he's killed this guy, but we didn't get to see that. which is sort of boring.

And then there's this big dumb security guy.

Why don't you have a big dumb white security guy?

That's so boring.

Yes, see, look, I'm, they're not going in close enough to that makeup.

All I'm seeing is sort of mascara.

I think I think those shots and that one in particular is particularly bad, I think.

I don't know what they've done there.

Like they haven't done the full.

There's the full depth eye sockets thing.

[57:03]

You definitely see on the thing, but I think they're struggling to do it.

Yeah, the makeup on this show is something you can usually guarantee it's always going to be.

I'm a great stand-up.

I mean, look at Celia Goody Jr.

Her, her, um, eye shadow is on point in this scene.

It's the best.

It's the only bit of colour in the morning.

It is.

I don't think it goes with some of the tiles.

Does she throw that?

She goes, look, it's a very gray scene.

Put some green on me eyes.

That'll do Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, look at this.

What's the fellow's name?

Sorry.

Beto.

It's very pretty.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, he's really cute too in that his big episode.

It was just called what he's called. documentary.

Is it really funny?

I'd like to think so.

It's funny in places, despite the absent of Pelia.

No, that's funny. which is funny in itself.

It does, like it has, it's about what Starfleet is and what it's like to not, you know, it has a bit of a lower decks vibe to it.

[58:05]

You know, there's something going on that the main crew aren't properly aware of and stuff.

Look, look at them to the side of the wall there.

It looks great.

Then we go in on them against the wall.

It looks fake.

It's just so bizarre.

It's so bizarre.

No, I think it's a perceptual thing because again, it's out of focus and that's a thing that you can't do.

You know, with a CGI thing with a, like with a something computer generate, because it's an actual physical thing that's visible to the actors and to the cameras.

You can go out of focus on it.

But it's so great.

When they were in the corner of the screen there and the walls were moving over there to the left, that looked fantastic.

That looked like a movie.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We go, movie, TV, TV to each show.

It does look like TV, but it does look like expensive TV, I think.

Oh, absolutely.

Yes, well, like you said, all those reflective surfaces.

Well, see, I'm a sucker for that.

Do you know what I mean?

stand in front of them and do a Star Trek episode.

The symbols on the console are so Stargate, SG1.

[59:05]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, I think they Yeah, they're absolutely going for that, aren't they?

Like, they're definitely going for that.

I could just see Anubis coming through the portal, any minute.

And so it is 40 minutes in that we get them.

Oh, Christ, will something happen in this bloody plot?

Yeah.

What if it's a palace or a lab?

What if it's a prison?

What if it's a prison?

And that's what it is.

It's full of those people from PowerPlay.

But he's already out.

Look, he's already out on the Enterprise.

Yeah, that's true.

That is true.

That's an adhesive too now.

Yeah, it's okay.

Yeah, oh, actually, I do like this where he's talking without turning his head.

That is cheaper.

Well, he doesn't have to wear his eyes.

But there's something, well, it's just weird, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh there we go.

That's better, that makeup.

The burning around his the actual eyes is better there.

[1:00:08]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think I just think it's so horrible.

I get so horrible and it is also just that the screaming and stuff.

Yeah.

I think I might get you one of those statues, you know.

Yeah, they're quite nice.

Well, you usually have a collection of gubbins, don't you, that you don't want, but your partner does in your outside.

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, that's right.

He'll find a place for it.

He will.

Oh, right.

Stuck on dimensional planes, tabernacle.

So we do come back here too, in episode 10, by the way.

It is a thing.

Oh, really want to throw him back in the prison.

No, we do find out the origin, the secret origin.

I'm just not going to tell you of who that beholder statue is.

Oh, what, is it somebody we know?

Might be.

Oh, please tell me it's the camp ones from Arena, please.

What are they called again?

I think the Gorn or the Metro.

[1:01:10]

The Metron.

Hello, the Metron.

It was all like the Metron.

I get a little crush on the Metron from terrarium still, I thought he was kind of...

Good legs, really.

The one from Arena, I pretty good legs as well.

Yeah.

It was so gay.

So terrendous.

Oh, God, how much longer is this plot gonna go on for?

I think we're all together in the room and we're hugging.

Oh, no.

Okay.

So we've got to do the one last thing, which is the trust.

Don't listen to Roger.

Listen to Spock. and then I really like the bit where Lahn holds out her hand and let...

You know what I said you earlier about that story so not getting into gear?

because I don't think there's any suspense at any point, right?

So when they go in, there's 0 suspense, and then at the end they walk out and you see them both going in and going out with not much happening in between.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I guess they think that having the 2 casualties there is enough to make that a thing, except that they're basically there to do their character stuff and so everyone's safe.

[1:02:24]

I do wonder, you know, that that opening episode, which was sumptuous on the eyes, costs so much money that they had to recoup some costs along the way here.

I mean, that's possible.

Although I have to think that whatever they did to make the facade of the temple has got to have been quite expensive.

I mean, do you remember the gaunt larder and those pods with people in them, stretching right back, people bursting out covered in blood. it was just incredible.

All but about 5 of them were on the wall, obviously. stop spoiling the illusion, right?

I was convinced for once.

So was she just possessed by a par race or whatever they are. then we don't know.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

It was a very strange moment where she walked, just started walking out weird language.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, she actually says exactly the same dialogue that Najal had said earlier when he 1st recognised the statue and 1st started talking about La Vesda.

[1:03:30]

So she starts talking about it as well.

I have to give them huge points for M Apostrophe Croon, because we haven't seen one of those for a while, have we?

Awesome.

It's such, well, Nigal has an apostrophe as well, obviously.

Up there with the Beaumont for best use of...

Well, this is the Star Trek where 2 of the regulars have apostrophes as well.

Yep Who's the other one?

Mabanga.

Ah, of course, yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Couldn't they just bring the Beaumar back once in Calatman trick?

imagine that.

Imagine if this was a Beaumont prison and the man walked out and went, are you dealing with our prison?

I like the floor.

Like, there's something, you know how there's that gap under the floor and somehow, I guess that's the wall, is it?

Like the wall just extends below them where they are.

I like I like to pretend that in an episode with this little narrative drive to it.

[1:04:34]

We've talked a lot about floors, walls and river walls.

That's true See, that's enough for me. largely enough for me.

Yeah, I figured you were a man that wasn't easily pleased, but here we are.

No, no, I'm easily pleased by expensive looking television.

Oh, this man with the nice tasty beard.

Unfortunately, I think he may be dead soon.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, he's a very sort of boring white guy security guard, isn't he?

I guess he's a bit old or something. straight through the security field.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. strangles him.

Okay, so something's happening here. you go.

Yeah.

Did you think that they were going to somehow get the thing out of him then and he would survive at the end?

I think probably by now I thought that was not really likely, but I was certainly kind of, I was sort of going, oh, please, you know, like this can't, this is terrible.

This can't happen.

And because they immediately...

This is come from then, this sort of nasty streak.

Because Strangely Worlds, I mean, it has a few moments, but generally speaking, it's quite an optimistic show.

[1:05:36]

It is.

I think that they want to big the vezra up as being super evil and so they do it by having them kill someone that we really care about.

And they do that with a gone in series one with Hammer.

Shuttle to Kenfori, uh, which we did roll.

It's episode three, has these zombies attacking Mabanga and Pike, I think.

Is it Pike?

I can't remember who he goes down with now.

Probably not Pike actually.

And they're just exploding zombies.

Like, they just exploded as a show of strawberry jam.

Oh, did we watch that?

incredibly good.

I want to see Star Trek does the Walking Dead.

So glory. scared of zombies.

That's why we didn't do that.

I'm going to try and roll it next time.

You'll see.

Gangsters or zombies, anything but this.

But like, I suppose, if we're comparing, you're right, the hemmer version of this, killing off somebody we love that's been established for a few episodes, I mean, that was so moving.

[1:06:43]

It was because we were seeing it all through Celia's eyes.

She bright minded Celia's reaction.

This time I'm seeing it through my Benga's eyes and he looks a bit bored.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But also, you know, Celia's a much more demonstrative.

And like that episode, like there is the relationship built up between Benga and and, um, and gamble.

But I think the relationship between Hammer, who's really sort of grumpy and gruff, but he really...

And yeah, yeah, there's something super touching about that.

Hammer's replacement.

Yeah.

Yeah, oh, what a shame because I love them both.

Can't we just put them in at the same time?

Yeah.

Well, I think the intention was always to kill Hammer, and then they wrote him back into the, into the previous episode.

Couldn't have done the Buffy thing where they realised, oh, shit, we've actually created a character that we'd love and we don't want to get rid of.

Yeah, yeah.

It's so great having a blind character as well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. that's true.

[1:07:44]

Oh, yeah, look, look at that.

That literally looks like a shot from Doctor Who. 2 doors into a quarry.

It is literally that.

That's literally what it is.

So there's a physical prop on board.

They were able to bring a door down to the quarry so that we could shoot through.

So funny.

Oh, honestly, straight.

That's as cheap as you've got, strange new worlds, all right?

Okay, so now we're in this exciting scene where Pelia gets to do something like it.

Pelia shoots him in the back.

The only real suspense my idea was who is going to kill him.

I knew he was dead.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think by now I did too.

Kirk is Kirk with the moustache, isn't it?

My god, he's so pretty.

Yeah, that's Sam Kirk, of course, the brother.

Yeah.

Oh, no, but this guy's pretty as well.

Can't we find a way to, mind you. he's not got his eyes.

I mean, unless you're going to do Jordan La Forge again.

Yeah, yeah, they would have grown back.

I came through the room and he saw him wearing those specs and he went, oh, is this the Geordie La Forge origin story?

[1:08:49]

I went, no, it's like, no.

Much yuckier.

Oh, there we go.

I'm glad it was Pelia.

She's a woman of experience.

Oh, she's awesome.

She knows.

She's so great.

She's so good.

Oh, and the way that Scotty comes in.

I sort of grabs the thing.

Yeah, yeah, throws it up.

He has got that awkwardness down pat, that actor's playing school.

Like everything does is slightly comicable.

Oh my god, he's a comedian.

He's a comedian.

Well, he's crying.

The actor Martin.

He's really good. on Instagram.

Yeah, I think he's cute too.

They're a ridiculously hot cast.

I know.

That's it.

That's why we can't lose any love.

We can't lose these pretty people.

Well, we lost one.

You know, do you remember when we watched Voyager and like, you know, Jerry Ryan beams out of that car, doesn't she?

the absolute prettiest.

They're all Jerry Ryan's in this.

Yeah, yeah.

[1:09:49]

Oh, Garrett Wang standard pretty, aren't they?

Oh, when the hair falls over his face.

Yes.

Grief, yes.

Although, I was wondering, is Nurse Chapel and number one?

Are they both wearing wigs as well?

Nurse Chapel's got, no, number one's got massive hair in this episode.

Yeah, there's one scene where she has super, there's one episode.

It must be in series 2 where she has just the worst hair I've ever seen, and there was a production reason for it, and I can't remember. worse than Kira and emissary.

Oh, no, really. quite atrocious of war crime.

No, shockingly bad.

A war crime, say.

Yeah, yeah.

So yeah, this incredible speech from Hellia is so funny and it's like being delivered in a way.

It's so good.

And it's a proper speech that is then like it's under by the thing, like the heebie-jeebies thing.

But it's the camera thing, which is just a playback to the wonderful gag earlier where she was kind of looking straight in the camera and that obviously anticipates the game.

[1:10:50]

Malevolence.

The desire to malign to perform.

Well, no, you were sort of watching this guy.

This is way over the top. makes sense of it all.

Oh, right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Do you want me to do that again?

She is the best character in this.

I swear to you.

God.

She's so funny.

That actress was a gift to the cast.

Do you want one for the cat?

But look at Pike's reaction as well.

Pike gets to relax for once this episode.

Do you want one for the camera?

No.

Suit yourself.

No, yeah, but then we get a pike reaction, Sean.

Couldn't they have ended the episode there?

That would have been a wonderful way to go out.

So this, this is a great way to go out because obviously we have to establish that the Vesta still survived.

And so it does it by showing you the screen.

Notice that Dr. Mybang has learned from previous episodes of untitled Star Trek project.

[1:11:51]

You know what this is, don't you?

It's the end of, what's the episode where the Baulk signal's been sent out?

conspiracy.

It's the 80s.

There's that closing on the screen going because that Vesda got put in the patent buffer, so it's clearly escaped.

Joseph Obanger has learned from listening to previous episodes of Untitled Star Trek Project that calling the deceased's parents is really best done off camera.

That's right.

Well done, Mabenga.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Japanese, you know, we've had arch already, haven't we?

That's in the past.

Yeah.

So now I was just doing crash courses at university of how to how to phone parents and deliver the, you know, and not get to the point for 10 minutes.

Yeah, yeah.

We don't want to see him doing that.

Dana Gamble, which he was clearly saying for our benefit, because I think Gamble's parents know his name, probably.

At least when we watch those awkward moments, we do laugh.

Yeah, yeah, but nothing tense.

[1:12:54]

Which bit of fluid would you like from the bottom?

Yeah, that's right.

I've got some glasses, some plastic glasses that he quite liked near the air.

There's a bit of blood on it So you could do a DNA match and just know we're telling the truth.

Or the uniform, maybe?

That's covered in blood.

Yeah.

Well, I have to be really constituted and he'll be back.

I have to be honest with you.

I don't know if I've laughed less.

Strange New Worlds episode.

But as ever, watching alongside you, I've seen more worth than I did when I 1st watched it earlier.

I have to say I say slightly less.

Sorry, I'm so sorry.

It's just those...

Middle 30 minutes. in the middle.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, you're right.

But I mean, I'm just so used to spectacle and action.

I mean, that 2nd half of that Gord episode was non-stop action for 50 minutes, wasn't it?

Yeah.

Was that the one where you had, who was it, up in the Enterprise?

[1:13:55]

On the spaceship, sorry, that was completely falling apart?

and they were trying to get then spot was going in.

Was it Chapel?

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's right on board.

Marie's ship.

That's right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, amazing stuff.

I like to think maybe they sat round at sort of the offices and said, you know what, right?

Honestly, we've given those TNG fans nothing this year.

We've all done visual excitement and we've done action and we've done, you know, great high concepts and genuinely funny comedies and we know the TNG fans don't like that because TNG don't do it.

Let's give them one episode where they just go down on a planet, stand around for ages, talk about a space problem, and then leave.

And I think they achieve that adequately.

I think they do.

All right, it's the end of the episode, and it is time for us to work out where we're going next.

This one was my choice, and so you have the helm of the randomiser right now, Joe. Where are we going?

[1:15:02]

We're going right back to the beginning, although technically not because there are shows that come afterwards that are set before this, but the original series, if I may.

We haven't been there for a while, but I want to go back to the beginning and do something from season one. and now you've given me the opportunity to select as it last time, I only select season 3 and look where we ended up.

But season one, I think, is probably pretty great overall.

So there's a good chance we may get something good.

So last night, just to warn you, I did watch, as I said before, what our little girls made of, which is series one, and it was very boring.

Oh, okay.

Well, I mean, there's always that danger with TOS, isn't there?

There is.

Much like the episode we just watched.

They usually about 10 minutes too long, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

All right.

Sure, don't we?

I think you should.

Okey-dokey.

Oh, no.

[1:16:03]

No, because you won't believe me that I click this.

So we're not doing it.

I'm going to go onto another one.

Tell me what you do.

It's season one, episode 28, city on the edge of forever.

But I know, but we can't do all the best episode.

We can't do all the best.

We'll be tough.

I bought the shit at the end.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Come on.

All right, I'll press it again.

Oh.

Oh, dear.

What did you say that episode was called?

What are little girls made of?

Oh, press it again.

You did get it.

Turns out, he's a robot. episode 19.

Tomorrow is yesterday.

What the hell was that about?

Okay, the enterprise is held back in time to the 1960s where they become the centre of a US Air Force Pilots UFO investigation.

Oh, the 1960s again.

Let's come home.

Let's do it.

We had a sort of a visually sort of quite dark and drab episode this week.

Let's go back to the 60s.

It's going to be...

Is that the one where they're wearing gangster costumes?

No, that's called a piece of the action and that's on another planet.

[1:17:07]

How many times did I go to the 60s or 60s style planets?

I don't know.

I don't know, but this is, um, I don't think we actually go to the 60s very much here.

I think we're mostly on the sets of the Enterprise, but I don't know it very well.

Oh, I don't want to do it then.

I'm going to press it again.

Is that all right?

Okay.

John gives it 4 stars.

Oh here we go.

Well, try this.

This sounds like a comedy to me.

It's season one, episode six.

We can be promised some terrific misogyny in this episode.

Muds, women.

Oh my god.

Okay.

So that is the 1st Harry Mart episode.

We've done one Harry Mart episode, which was obviously magic to make the sanest man go mad from Star Trek Discovery series one.

That might be the best discovery episode we've done, you know?

It is pretty great.

It is pretty great.

So this is the 1st of 2 mud episodes in the original series, Muds, Women, and IMud.

[1:18:10]

And I think there's one in the inevitably in the animated series as well.

Have they been studied in academic texts as sort of great emancipating episodes?

No, no, not at all.

I think there's robots in them as well.

We love robots.

And we do like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, but I think they're robot ladies, actually.

Oh, please, it's not like Austin Powers.

If they've got like machine gun jublies, can't handle it.

How do you feel about this?

I mean, trepidation because it could be incred- no, it will be incredibly safe. embarrassingly sexy.

I think we might get some fun out of the regulars if they're in a comedy.

Yeah.

If it's a comedy.

Let's see how we go.

I don't know it very well.

I am prepared.

I signed up for this when I agreed to do a Star Trek podcast.

There was inevitably going to cover time where we did Man's Women, and so I think we should do it.

[1:19:13]

Yeah, let's do it.

We've already, have we covered the most sexist episodes of all the other shows?

I think we may have touched upon someone.

We did Angel one.

We did too, Angel.

I would say Meridian was pretty success from DS9, you know?

Yep, yeah.

Anything else?

I mean, hope she doesn't get anything to do.

Enterprise is just sexist every week.

Basically, any of the episodes where either Deanna or Beverly fall in love with a guest star, who is gross. is fairly sexist.

That's right, because it's never really the emphasis on them, is it?

Usually the blokes.

Yeah, yeah.

Or Riker, you know, or Picard.

Okay, well, muds women.

I think it will be camp and colourful, so that's a good start, but I'll go in expecting troubling things.

You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley.

[1:20:14]

We're online at untitledstar trekproject.com where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

This episode was recorded on the 16th of June 2026 and released on the 19th of June.

We'll see you next time for Star Trek, the original series, Muds Women.

Oh, that was really mean.

I'm sorry.

No, I think you're right, though.

It is much more boring than I remember.

And I, I, I, like I just like hanging out with these people and I did like all of the character stuff at the beginning and end and like I was, you know, like I liked, you know, there's bits and pieces through there, but, but it is pretty lacking an incident.

[1:21:18]

We've done the two.

Now, the next discovery in Strange as Wells, we've got to do, I've got to be like really fun ones, you know?

Season finale or something. something like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, comedy.

We're a little ahead on the Strange Tree Worlds, but we won't be.

Because now we've done we've done three.

How many how many have we done?

Are you doing the thing?

I am.

I am.

And I'm selecting a season as well.

Ooh, let me go to the coverage page.

Oh, no, I should bring up Gemma.

Oh, now I'm getting angry.

I hope you didn't pick that up on the mic.

So, again, the episode.

I'm not rumbling.

So we've done 7 out of 7 out of 30 Strange 2 Worlds.

We did.

We did 4 in episode in season one.

We've done 2 in series one in series two.

No, 2 in series 2 because we did hedge many parts.

[1:22:22]

One or two.

Oh, I'm doing the picture, the the images gamble holding up the the thing before it just the 2nd before it explodes.

Oh, you couldn't you do one before?

I burnt out eyes.

No, I can't.

You don't want to look at that every time.

Yeah, that's right.

David Gillespie Pratt is obsessed with us at the moment.

When we did that new Avengers episode the other day.

Oh, God, I love doing that.

That's why I couldn't, I know he's Gambit, isn't he?

Oh, the new Avengers.

Okay, why can't you remember Gamble?

I just kept going.

She kept saying to me, I just can't get enough of a Starship project on the moment.

He goes, I'm going back.

He goes, oh, mostly I love the 90s trek ones the most because that's his Star Trek.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. he says he's been going right back to the misty dawns of where we started, you know, to choose.

He goes I Jimmy goes, I find the best on the worst episodes that I love or hey, to see if you guys agree with me.

And he said, it's the most he's ever enjoyed Twisted in his life, was listening to us talking about it.

[1:23:23]

So I think we're doing a service.

No, James just said, I just watched this episode of Enterprise, and it's directed by Roxanne, and she plays an evil computer that's trying to kill them all.

And he said, oh, and now it's a night in Sick Bay.

And I just said, that's the best.

Just wait till you see...

Well, I don't know.

He hasn't seen it.

He hadn't seen it yet.

He said, am I going mad or is Enterprise getting better?

and I think probably.

Oh, no, that middle of the season. that season is really terrible.

But I, I mean, I, that opening gag of Night in Sick Bay, where we slowly ban across them all oiling each other up in the decontamination...

It's the dog.

At the very end of it, they're doing the dog. that's so great.

Like absolutely making fun of themselves.

I know the joke was on him, but he was just unbearably awful in that, wasn't he, Archer?

[1:24:26]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

He was an arsehole. horrible.

No, I think that was, isn't that intentional?

was on him.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's not often now, is it?

Why do they do that?

I don't know why they think that.

Is there a captain that you dislike as much as Archer?

No.

Never.

I don't know why ever is sweaty.

I don't know if I ever dislike Cisco or Janeway ever.

There's things that they do that I don't agree with, but I don't think there's ever a point where I go, oh, you know, you're a cunt.

Like, I think Picard is sort of appealing generally.

Do you know what I mean?

Like he's, it's not, he's not fully there.

It takes a while.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But, but, and then aren't just awful.

Walker is fantastic. the best.

So good.

So she was great.

Michael's great.

Rios.

Rios, yeah, he's really good.

And obviously coke.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:25:27]

Mason.

Pike?

Pike's adorable.

Yeah, Pike's great.

Yeah, I like Pike for the same reason I like Cisco.

I think Avery is more intense, but they both have that congenial.

I'm going to make this feel like a family without stating that I'm making this feel like a family.

I love those scenes in his quarters where they're cooking.

You'll love that bit in equilibrium then.

The bit at the start week really, we invites everybody over for dinner and they've never all had like a proper cooked meal with real ingredients.

So he's getting everyone involved in the cooking.

And Odo's got the mixing bowl and he goes, no, Odo, you're doing it too fast.

Just flow with it.

So then you've got Renee going... with it.

It's so funny.

Oh, bless.

Which one's equilibrium?

It's not the best.

It's a Dax episode. you know, it's the one where we go to trill.

Is that one?

Oh okay.

Yeah, so that's the contractual obligation thing, but if you can do one, do it like that, you know.

[1:26:30]

It's really charming.

I was disappointed didn't get much to do this week.

Yeah, I did mean it though, but it was very pretty.

He looks really cute.

What's happening to me watching Star Trek?

I'm fancying all the women.

Ah, well.

All right, I've got it.

All right.

Do the thing.

I've got it and then I shall go and get myself some lunch.

I'm going to go and not do that.

I'm going to go to bed.

Right.

All right, it's the end of the episode.