The First Duty

Hey, Joe. Hi. So last time we recorded, we did season five, episode six of Deep Space 9... And the time before that, we did season five, episode 6 of Voyager. Now, I want you to tell me what you think season 5 episode 6 of Star Trek that Next Generation was. Oh, crikey. Silicon Avatar, something like that. Oh, it's not Dharmok, is it? Nope. We've done it already. The masterpiece society? that was series 5. Nope. No. Was it good? Is it the game? It's the game. It's a great slot. I tell you. That is the choice slot. The reason I mention it is, it's the 1st time that we bring Wesley back to the show, and it's brilliant. It's so much fun. It gives Wesley another chance to save the day. It's terrifically memorable and enjoyable. He's really fun and relaxed in it. He's having a lovely time at Starfleet Academy. And it's really everything that we hoped would happen when we kind of left him behind in final mission. Tonight's episode, though, is season five, episode 19. So and a whole half season after that. And it's the 1st duty. And I think it's an extraordinarily brave and interesting thing for them to do, um, to bring him back, but he's embroiled in something really terrible, that has proper, proper consequences for him, and that it's no longer that much fun to see him back. Like it's awkward and difficult and strange. And while the game is wonderful. I think that the 1st duty is absolute top tier Star Trek, because it not only does that character staff, but it deals with a really really important kind of theme in a way that seems ridiculously quixotic now from the point of view of 2026. which I think makes it all the more important. Watching it this time, for the 1st time in ages, I just found it so resonant with so many different things. I think the fact that we'd seen season one of Starfleet Academy itself, in that time, just made it resonate in all sorts of ways and made it seem more interesting and more important. So I was absolutely delighted. This is an episode that I knew really well, but watching it again just made me really, really appreciate how great it is. I'm kind of pleased that we had several appearances from Will Wheaton in Kurtzman Trek because I don't really like where we go from here with Wesley. We only see him once more in Journey's end in season 7, where he's suddenly a Starfleet dropout and an angry man looking for a cause. And at the end of that, it reaches a lovely conclusion where the traveller comes in and says, no, you know, you can be better than this. Let's go off and we'll have adventures. And it's really nice when we catch up with them. We did prodigy recently and he was just fantastic in it. Yeah, it's really interesting to see when the Starfleet dream goes horribly wrong in this episode and it cements Ron Moore. It is run more than rises, isn't it? It cements him as the bravest writer and the one that's willing to take hold of the Roddenberry vision for Star Trek and actually turn it on its head and say maybe we haven't conquered everything in the future and we can make mistakes and there are consequences and we can let people down. And you know me. That's my kind of Star Trek. You know, I don't want an anti-drama show where everyone gets on lovely and just solve space problems. I want to examine people and see what happens when things don't go right. I also really like the fact that we're on earth because we just don't do it very much. Do we? There's the one after best of both worlds. What's that called? Family. Family. There's the two-parter in DS9, Home Fright, and Paradise Lost. There's this. Beyond that, in 90s trek. There's home, I think, in Enterprise. Enterprise, and then there's a fake version of it all in Voyager obviously, because we can only do. We're far away from home there. But it's not a lot, is it? Oh, and a couple of the movies as well. We sort of fly over the Golden Gate Bridge. And I always love that. It's one of the things that I loved about the movies is that, like I understand why we're on a spaceship because you have standing sets and it's sort of fairly cheap to realise and stuff and going to earth is more expensive and it requires you to go outside and it requires you to sort of find locations that look futury and stuff like that. Um, but, uh, but I kind of want to know what earth is like basically our water filtration plant, mostly. Or a lovely Creole restaurant, you know, in New Orleans, which is much nicer to look at. Also, as well, there is a bizarre pattern on memory alpha. You'd think Rick Burman would learn his lesson, but he never did. And also I'm reading the behind the scenes and he's like, no, I don't want to do this. I don't want to make a space crusher, a flawed human being. That's not how we do things here on Star Trek. He's a space genius. He saves the day every week, you know? He's off to the academy to have a bright future ahead of him. And then, of course, the episode is written and made. And it comes out. The reception is fantastic. And then Burman's there going, oh, yes, well, a lovely episode that was. And what a brave thing that we did and it turned out really well. You see how many times Berman didn't want to take risks in 90s trek. And how many times afterwards, he sort of got his tail between his legs going, well, I'm glad we tried that. Frankly, it is a relief to me that he had so little impact on Duke Space 9 because that show would not have taken any fucking risks had a bit like Voyager, had had he been in charge of it. So yeah, it's boldness, isn't it? It's really bad. I'm just, and just like we've done courtroom dramas already. We already did the fabulous drumhead, Gene Simmons, you know brought down better men than you, Picard, you know. It's like a TNG staple at this point. But at no point did I feel as if they were going over old grounds and just how the investigation unfolds in this and how clear that they are complicitly lying at court. You're just waiting for the penny to drop for everybody. Because I think as an audience, you know. Well, I mean, they're behaving sort of clandestinely, whenever no one's in the room, you know, oh my god, they're going to find out so we know, we know there's something to learn. But these court case dramas usually are kind of functional and they are familiarly structured. But this, I just, I, the 1st time I watched it, I couldn't figure out how this was going to end and I couldn't understand like the consequences because we have never done this before once Wesley is exposed and tells the truth. Like, what the fuck does that mean? What does that mean? We don't know. And that's exciting, right? Especially the next generation. You just know you can guess the ending half the time, whereas this time, yeah. It was it was great. I thought it was really interesting. Why do you think then that this is so relevant today? So for me, this is about privilege and about honesty and about sticking together. So the choice that Wesley has to make is to be loyal to his friends on the team or to tell the truth. And we live in a public sphere where lying is just routine and people do it all the time and there are no consequences and people with privilege, people in positions of power constantly lie to us about things all the time. And that's normal, no one calls it out, and those people continue to be successful as leaders or whatever. And the people who lie to us are the people who are privileged like Nova Squadron, the people that everyone looks up to. They're the kids in the school that everyone admires. They're the kids in the school. You know, Boothby says they're like gods, you know, that everyone looks up to them. Everyone is in awe of them. And so the choice that has to be made is between honesty that's going to cost them and defending our group, our in group, our privileged group. And Ron Moore, I think, had wanted Wesley to side with his friends. See, this is actually co-written with Ron Moore and Naran Shankar who does 9 episodes of TNG. He's currently showrunner of the expanse or has until recently been showrunner of the expanse. He's the man that the planet Narendra 3 from yesterday's Enterprise is named after. Of course, a lot of damage there, Naren. So he and Moore disagreed and to spend a lot of time discussing what should Wesley decide to do? And Wesley decides to take the fall and decides to betray his friends, to take them down too. But the alternative is to support them, let them get away with it and let them become the sort of person that is okay with having Josh's father think that Josh was responsible for it, making them bad people, you know, who hurt other people. That would have felt like a betrayal of Wesley's character. Like, yeah, Wesley, as always, been a bit arrogant and a, but he's a good person. That's always been at the forefront of his character. I just don't think Moore could have pulled that off as a character's choice. It would have had to have been a different show. It would have had to have changed in certain ways. But I think that the interesting thing is, yes, you have privilege. Yes, you have friends, but it's not okay to lie or let them lie in order to maintain their privileged position. And it's not okay to let them hurt other people in the process. And just the idea that honesty, that just telling the truth is an absolute important core value seems so ridiculously naive, even quixotic in 2026. I just found that speech. Because if you look at the speech, the big pivotal speech between Picard and Wesley, in the ready room, where Wesley even tries to appeal to the captain just as his mentor and the captain shuts it down. No, we're not friends with not being friends here. I am not going to allow our relationship. He even brings up the relationship. He says, you know, who is this child? And then I discovered who you were and I learned what a great person you were and how you were born to be this, and I don't care because it's more important to me that you grow up being an honest trustworthy man and I'm not going to let my regard for you or my relationship with you. trick me into letting you off. And that is electric. And that's what's going on all the way through because if you start reading it in that way, you watch all of the times that the crew of the Enterprise actually are tempted to do that. you know Beverly, most of all, she loves Wesley. He can't be doing anything wrong. She'll do anything to defend him, but you get it from Data and Geordie as well. No, son doesn't have a floor. How could you suggest such a thing? That's right. So all of that stuff. It's the trick that Valiant does by giving those kids all of that rhetoric about how we're the best crew ever. and we're hugely important and it's the crew and we're a user and we can do it isn't it? And he basically there's there's buy into their myth so much. They think they can do anything and they all die. That's right. But I mean, here I think it's a little bit more, what they're risking is their soul. Do you know what I mean? What they're risking is do they become the people that let Josh's father think that Josh was to blame for this? And it's so important, you know, like it's such an important message. And I just thought that was, that was a, and like it's very obvious that that's the main theme and that's what it's about. But just watch the interplay between the enterprise characters and how tempted they are to behave like that all the time, and how that rhetoric about us being the best crew ever, and, and you know us being family and stuff like that, can be used to encourage you to do something immoral. It can also get you killed, as we discover in Valiant. But what it can encourage you to do is kind of, yeah, lose your soul. I mean, Valiant is such a different episode to this. Like, it's much more propulsive. There's far more action in it. you know what I mean? As a piece of television, it's probably a better piece of work. But that is focussing in on Jake and Nog. And you've got Nog who's been entirely indoctrinated into the Starfleet ideal and you've got Jake who's rejected that completely and can see those kids for exactly what they are and the mistakes that they're about to make. And so it is doing completely different things. I mean, the conclusion that that reaches that if you tell people they are the best of the best, then, unfortunately, the mockers come off and you make very, very bad choices because you think nothing can bring you down. That is such a rejection of the Roddenberry ideal. That's what I love about that episode. It's about as dark as you can get, pushing against that sort of, no we're the best of the best and we go and solve space problems. It takes it to its sort of grimmest conclusion. I mean, this does that to some degree because the sort of rhetoric that you hear from the Nova Squadron is the sort of rhetoric that you hear from the Enterprise crew in, particularly in earlier episodes of Star Trek. Well, especially in season one. Do you remember? They were flying away from sort of drug adult planets going, oh well, we've done our bit. leave them to it. But these uphold Starfleet principles and federation principles and places honesty at the centre of them. A lie, Nathan. We lied and we thought we'd get away with it. Oh, yeah. Such a singer of a line. Well, I just can't get over that line, you know, whether it's scientific truth or personal truth. You know, that the incredible... officer is the truth. And Stuart is so great in that. I think Stuart, you know, is often overrated by Americans who just hear his RSE accent and think that everything he does is super great. Sometimes he's a bit embarrassing, sometimes is super awkward. But when he's given a scene like that, he's absolutely superb. I've come to a conclusion. Bloody yeah, we've discussed the entire episode before we've got in. I've come to the conclusion that people, and I used to say it as well, that Will Wheaton raises his game every time that he's in a scene with Patrick Stewart. I'm wondering now, you know, if Patrick Stewart raises his game every time he's in a scene with Will Wheaton, as you go back and look, that episode, I think it's, it's the Maritan snare where they're in the shuttle when he's going off to the, and he's taking Wesley's worth. The scenes in that are incredible. Final mission. The scenes in that are amazingly good. and the scenes between them here as well. It's not enough. That's the trouble is like, I wish there had been more time and more material for these 2 together. But here, yeah, you're right. It is electrifying to watch. Well, and again, it's because we haven't been here before where in new territory. And that's really exciting. Yeah, yeah, I agree. It's not the sort of place TNG went enough, if you ask me. And I'm sure there was a space problem next week. I'm barely certain after all of this controversial characterisation. It's cost of living. Mr. Wolf, please get the butt off with me. The higher the fewer. It is great. It's great. All right, let's watch this thing, babe. Okay, all right. I will count us in. Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off. I think, so I think this is super awkward this scene, but it introduces some things that are super important, I think, to the episode. So that's one of them. in space at the moment. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But we've got a log entry. But, um, this stuff where the, where Riker and, um, where Riker and Picard are reminiscing about their academy days, um, of course introduces. Deanna's grinning like an insane gargoyle for some reason. Well, I think the reason is that they've given her no lines in this scene. But the camera's on her anyway. Why if they're giving her no lines, it makes no sense. Didn't she go to the academy? What's going on? She should have just said, oh, you was a naughty boy or something like that, should she? But she gets no lines at all. But, but what is great, of course, is this introduces the idea, and it's a clever conceit that, um, he's now going to play Boothby and Boothby was him, you know, to his Wesley, that makes no sense at all. But there's something circular about this. So we get to see a potential future for Wesley, where he still becomes captain of the Enterprise because of course, he did the right thing. And even though it cost him something, he was successful afterwards and could live with himself. It seeds the idea that even the most stalwart bug up the butt Starfleet captains could make mistakes when he was a younger man which is what this is all about. Yeah. Now, here is Admiral Brand, who is pretty great, although she's pretty fucking terrible on the phone. She's been actually smoked 20 a year, isn't she? Good great voice. 20 a year? I meant 28 days. Sorry. So she goes, she goes, there's been an accident and it's kind of like, so you know that you're about to go into the opening credits are. You don't lead with, he's fine. You're a friend of the Crush Boy, aren't you? Yes. Oh, that's been a terrible thing. There's been an accident. pauses dramatically. She teach Captain Archer how to do phone calls in Enterprise because that's exactly what he did with Yoshi's father the other time. I know. That was exactly what I thought. Are you telling me she's dead? Yes, yes, I am. No, it's more dramatic effect, though, right? Well, like, we're not actually being told what's happened, but yeah, you're right. Nathan, yeah, you know, if Sam happens to you, yeah, can you tell your loved ones, if they're going to ring me, just say he's dead all right? We did manage to retrieve some goo, which we thought you might want. Oh, please send it over. I'll put it next to mine. Untitled Star Trek Project plaque. The last living remains. Yeah, that's right. madness, isn't it? Well, so it is set in the scene, though, right? And it's obeying your rule for the pre-titled sequence. We've ceded the idea and we found out that something very serious has occurred at the academy. And so the other thing that this episode made me think about is the concern that the adults have for the children and the way that they know the children and the way that they're concerned about how they feel, and mostly that's done through Boothby, but it is also done through Admiral Brand. And I think there's one particular line, which I just think is beautiful and doesn't necessarily hit you on the head with it about how concerned she is about the kids. And we've had a whole season of that in Starfleet Academy as well. Oh, sorry. We just went straight on a shot of Beverly looking absolutely as robotic as she ever had. I don't think. I think that wig is out acting her in this. I can't take her seriously. At this point. She's behind a lot of consoles in this. Oh, possibly, possibly. But it's just the massiveness of that fucking wig, which is fighting her performance. No, not just the week. Did you see the Wolf earlier as well? Mr. Mop, man, you're not doing your job on the Xbox. Now, there's a moment here where I think Gates McFadden is great where she goes, I know that. I know that. you know, and she sort of falters and she comes across as like a human being, but all the scenes where she's with Wesley on earth and she's like, Wesley, we must go and tell them you know, how many times you've saved the ship. Oh, look, you said it. She's like a Stepford wife, isn't she? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, but I mean, she, one of the reasons why I think that we can't have a scene, like, there seems to be her arc ends and we don't see her meet him afterwards. Yeah, but I think the reason for that is, what would they say? We don't really want to watch that, do we? Beverly being crushed that her son murdered somebody? Yeah, yeah, that's right. No, no, that's sort of miserable. But she's also depicting that instinct to protect our friends, to protect the people that we love, that that's more important than the truth, so much so that she can't even believe the truth. Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, which would she have said to him, no, protect your career all right? It's okay. Well, in fact, she, she tell, like he tells her not to. He tells her, like, I'm protecting these people's career. Don't protect my career. Don't get involved. Don't intervene with Admiral Brand. It'll be bad for you and you'll feel bad if you find out what I've done. Do you know what I mean? So it's, again, he's instructing her not to do what he himself is currently in the middle of doing. Well, through motive, then. Is it is it too so we can deliver the truth to the fellow's dad or because he just doesn't want to look into his mother's eyes when he richly realises that her little boy isn't as perfect as she thought? But I also think that, I think, and the person that we haven't mentioned is Nick Lucano. Yes, I do want to talk about. So this is the worst, Robert. playing the character that he will come back and play again in lower decks. I know I know what you're going to say. I don't see a discernable difference in what he's doing here to Tom Paris. And I just don't think he's charismatic enough to sort of convince me that he would be able to silence all of those people. I think he talks the talk, though. I think the dialogue in that thing, yeah. Yeah. So, and I think it's helped by the performance of the young woman who plays Cito. She's terrific. She's really good, awful, that Bajoran makeup, that early Bajoran. I hate that. HD, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no sins. It's still fairly bad. But so that scene, there's 2 great scenes with him. I think the scene where Wesley 1st tries to stand up to in front of the other 2 in front of Gene and Cito is pretty great. And then there's a scene where Wesley goes pretty much straight from the scene with Picard into a scene with the worst Robert. And those 2 scenes are a backbone of the episode and they're both electric, I think. And I was very, I had the subtitles on right. I thought I'm not going to be distracted by the worst robots performers. And I was like, gosh, this is really properly manipulative what he's doing. really good dialogue, isn't it? I just don't know that he sells it. I would want to see like a really hot. I really charismatic sort of leader of men that they are all a bit beguiled by. Also, why get a 27 year old to play that role? Like, I just, he's too old. Why isn't he, Nick McClarno in Voyager? Oh, because I think Nick Lucano, like, I think he could have been. I don't know why. something happened that put Tom Paris in prison. It could have been that. Yeah, but he, but Nick isn't in prison at the end of this. He's just expelled. He's rebranded himself as Tom Paris, you know. Yeah, yeah. Like, I think he's very charming. I can see why they liked him. Do you know what I mean? Like, he's charming and he's sort of reasonably good looking and stuff. He's far too old for this, and it would have been more effective if it had been a charismatic 22 year old, you know. And certainly, like, playing against Wesley, look how much older he looks. Maybe, inappropriate. But, I mean, Wesley Crusher, he still makes my heart flutter. I'm sorry, I'm still 13 years old when I look at Wesley Crusher. He has the worst hair in this episode. Oh, that's the hair. I used to ask my hairdresser to give me with the bogeyman cover. Oh my god. it's terrible I wanted that hair so badly. Look at the undercut. Like when he turns around, the back, the back of it is so bad. Look at that. You remember I said to you in a message, this, like, I felt like this just could all be a bit tighter. Yeah. I'll give you an example and it isn't the writing. It isn't the narrative. It's the direction, I think. There was a moment there where the door opened and you can clearly see gates waiting for a queue to talk. So she's standing there like a robot until the door's fully open and then she sort of goes, where's like that? Go, gates, go. I think the worst thing about it is that they can't afford a sliding door in this set. It's like they have a door handle. But they put noise. They put a psst. noise when he used the fucking door handle, like it's electronic. This is obviously the same location as the justice planet. That is worth mentioning as well. The same water filter. But I do think it does, it has both the sort of earthy feel, you know, the nice, the water and the bushes and all. But it does feel futuristic, doesn't it? Like when I was 13, I was utterly convinced I was in the 24th century. Um, so this is Ray Walston as Booth be. Boothby's been mentioned a couple of times before, and of course he was known basically to the audience as Uncle Martin from my favourite Martian. So that's a sitcom that goes from 1963 to 1966. And he's an alien who lands on earth. He's an anthropologist or something. He lands on earth and ends up leaving with Bill Bixby from the Incredible Hulk. And he's hilarious and funny and quirky and stuff. He's a sort of grumpy uncle. And so he's kind of perfect for them. for the pipe then. Yeah, exactly. And so the other theme that I think, and I've said this before, is like, Boothby knows them, like knows him, you know, and Boothby remembers him. We had the throwaway gag in the game where Wesley says, oh, yeah he didn't remember you. But Boothby knows him very well and he's proud of what he did. And the great thing is, we need these conversations with Boothby because Boothby gives valuable exposition about what Nova Squadrons like and what the kids think of him. But what we've added to it is giving him this relationship with Picard, where Picard was involved in a potentially career ending scandal, and Booth be persuaded him to stand up and do the right thing. And so I love that because it means that Wesley, even though he's brought low at the end of the episode, There's hope for his future. I love the fact that in, you know, this location, which is full of bright young cadets and admirals and all of this, the wisest and the most observant person is the gardener, and the gardener who everyone passes all the time and he makes the time to have relationships with people, and then you had that sort of role which is a choice role, right, to a great character actor like this. It's just magic. I think Stuart is great in this scene as well. There's that moment where he says, I hated you. I thought you were a mean-spirited, vicious old man, and he says, I was, and by the way, I'm the same age as you were now. And Stuart just lets us smile. He's got serious business to happen, but there's just the ghost of a smile on his face at that point. And it kind of anticipates. It helps us to understand how Wesley feels in that scene where Picard is being mean. is deliberately saying, I'm not taking into account our relationship at all. I'm calling you a cadet. You know, I'm calling you cadet. You're calling me, sir. We're not having any relationship. That's your problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah. really good. See, this is quite good. They was, did you notice they were shooting that scene at dusk as well? They had a lovely sort of light to it. A beautiful golden lion. Like, we don't go on location very often. Let's get the most out of this. I don't know. Maybe I'm just poisoned by so many dreadful performances as Tom Paris. I was just like, I was thinking, would I be convinced by this man? and I'm not sure I would. Well, I think partly because it is that cheesy, you know, I couldn't have asked for a better team dialogue that we sat through in season one of Star Trek, The Next Generation, and that has to be deliberate. Moore's watched that. He knows how that lands. Yeah, he watched a pawn, so do you wait till I get on that show? I'm gonna shake this up. Oh, who plays this Vulcan? This is a great performance. Everything he says. I know you're guilty and I will find out how. So he is Richard Fancy. And he played a Sky Spirit Alien in Tattoo. too. A Sky Spirit Alien, you say. Yes. So how they register on the Beaumont scale. pretty bad, pretty bad. But he was also a semi-regular on Seinfeld, and he played Elaine's boss, Mr. Litman, in Seinfeld, but it was very funny. I mean, maybe the worst Robert side. It's all superbly cast. Ed Launner as the dad. is it just breaks your heart when he says to Wesley, I'm really sorry, Josh let you down. I mean, come on. And that's super cheesy and maybe a little bit over egged, but you watch that scene. When it comes, I think it's beautifully written. It's just well done. I don't think it's overworked in the acting though. He really underplays it all. It could be, you know, the proper hysterical grieving father. No. Yeah, yeah. is beautifully underplayed, isn't it? You're in no doubt about how he's feeling. There's something about his body language, which is a bit broken and a bit disappointed in his son. You know, while he's breathing as well. so sad. And there is this thing, like, I, you sense it from brand. You know, like this, she's a formidable woman. And maybe I'm sort of Holly Hunter peeled by all of this, but I just think that I can sense in her some real concern for these kids. And the thing that she's worried about at the end isn't that she gets. she can't, she knows that they're lying at the end. She just knows they're lying and she says, but suspicion isn't proof and that's not enough, but I'm super disappointed in you. all in her delivery, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, I know what you're becoming. I know what you're becoming. And, and, like, it's, look at the look, the look on St. Elk's face there is so great. It's so good. It's every line that comes out of his mouth, you are guilty. I'm going to find out how. It's so great. I mean, her. The fact that they take Cito into lower decks. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's Ron Moore again, isn't it? Man, he's so good. He's so great. And so I think I said at the tag of our last episode that, of course, Cito and Nick and Wesley all meet Mariner, Mariner's friends with Cito and has a bit of a sort of crush on her. And her death really hits her badly. And so we get to see, we even see Josh. We actually meet Josh in that scene. I am always going to provide the balance, this bloody courtroom. I mean, it's the size of a cupboard, isn't it? You can only fit. 5 people in and it's literally a square. But it's the same, you know, it's the assembly room from before it's minuscule by modern standards, but it is actually quite big when you see it. Do you know what I mean? Like, and it's got a ceiling and stuff. It's a pretty impressive set. Oh, he's not shooting it well then. Because it looks tiny from here. The trouble is, is they're having to do a whole new location in this story, right? With, you know, the rooms that people sleep in. And this is the bit too, where they dump, where they dump Josh in it. And it's, it's... And the camera rarely strays from the dad, right? Looking like, oh, he's let you down. It's just terrible. And so, I mean, so they're prepared to lie in order to give themselves some kind of plausibility. So, you know, they make their story more plausible because they're admitting to doing something a bit wrong. And I really loves Wesley's reaction to this. And the scene that comes after where with Nick and the others, I think, is a really good scene. It's just, how could you possibly cool yourself, the best of the best, and look at yourself in the mirror after doing something like this? Yeah, yeah. I agree. And that's that's the right thing. Do you know what I mean? Like, that's the right thing because it's not only disloyal to your friend who died because you did a dumb thing because you're a stupid fucking teenager who does dumb things because that's what they do. You know, um, uh, uh, but it's being disloyal to your friends to let them be those people, those people who did that to their friend, you know. Wesley saw a faltering line over, he wasn't ready and we made him do it as well. That's just in the 2nd half of this episode, there's so many wonderful lines. It's really good. Also, as well, the body language of Cito. And what's the other girl's name? Jean. So Cito's got her hands in her lap and it's almost like she wants to tell the truth and lying like this. It's clearly having an effect on her, gene on the other hand, is sitting quite straight, confident. I just like seeing. Because we don't get a chance to sort of look at non-verbal acting in 90s straight very often. And yet they're all doing different things. There's a great scene, that next scene, I think Cito is really worth watching in the next scene. I think this is very good because again, look at Picard. He just says Wesley's one of our own. We have to defend him. That's the exact rhetoric that Nick is using. Do you know what I mean? This is the team. These are our people. We stick together. We do things for each other, and there's Picard exhibiting that behaviour himself. Here. So you have, we open this scene on Cito saying you shouldn't have done that, Nick. She's the one who says it. And by the end of the scene, she's okay with it, and it's because of Nick. This is a very on TNG style scene where you have something to discuss and there are lots of different opinions about it. Usually, we're pulling in the same direction on TNG. Yeah, but look, by the end of it, look, Cito, she doesn't say anything. Gene is okay with it before Cito is, but Cito is eventually okay with it. Look, she's starting to fall fast. Are you really going to do this to all of us? You're going to ruin all of our careers just so you feel better about yourself. Yeah, yeah. That scene is great. Because that's, you know, there's 2 scenes. One after the other, Picard browbeats him, then Lucano browbeats him. They both yell at him. They both make moral arguments. Do you know what I mean? Like, and they both do a great job because they're, you know, great dialogue written by Ronald D. Moore. Sorry, Nathan, but I think Macono's hair is even worse than Wesley's. What is that Tintin Quiffey's got going on there? It's just so nice look out the window at earth there. It's so refreshing to be somewhere different. It does look pretty good. It's that window that we see in tapestry as well, isn't it? Like the famous window that looks out onto a cityscape. Have you ever been in that situation, you know, where what you're saying and the evidence? Oh, completely odds. How the hell do you explain this? Maybe I lied. I don't know. Just don't volunteer any new information. That's it. now she's around. Yeah, yeah. But now she's now she's come around. She's actually come around during that the course of this scene. Well, I mean, there are a lot of terrible things I've done, you know, for the group over the years, haven't they? You know, a lot of very bad choices. Yeah. Yeah. But all of this stuff. And this is, again, it's the sort of familiar ratric from, you know, the captain of a high school team, which is why, again, I think it would have been better for Nick to have been played by someone younger, like a younger actor. Um, but all that we'll stick together. Nova Squadron. No one else can say that, that we're the best of the best. Oh, damn. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All of that season one, Star Trek, the next generation. It does expose the danger, though, of that, right? of pumping these kids full of so much arrogance. Yep. Yeah. And you're gonna get that point of view because Boothby's aware of it. Like Boothby is the one that tells Picard that gives Picard the idea that Nick is being has tried to persuade them to lie. I can't imagine in a 1000000 years that Roddenberry would have let this script through. It even had a choice. Yeah, yeah. So... Oh my god. So everything that they're talking about now is about Josh planning for the future. Like, whenever they discuss Josh, they talk about the things that Josh did in order to work towards his goal of passing in Starfleet Academy. All of the dialogue, which is just about Josh, this is Josh and stuff. But it's all about this future that won't ever happen. And I just found that incredibly moving. Even the way that Wesley picks up the sweater and says, our trip you know, like our ski trip. It was the ski trip and he drops his voice. Well, it's sort of like the jumper is like, that's Wesley being kind to Josh. And now he's not. I don't know. All of it is just make him feel as guilty as possible, isn't it? But also, I think it makes the loss of Josh more palpable. Like it makes it mean more because you've got this person who's experiencing it. It does make, you know, does give us someone to be guilty about. We can't see Josh. We do see the flag at half staff every time we see an establishing shot. We're reminded of it. you know all of that. But also as well. I mean, it's like a gift when you can pull this off. It's a character that we never me that feels so rounded, just from what he's saying there. And it's not the usual bullshit backstory dialogue. It's he was really struggling. You helped him. He tried really hard. He got a chooser. He becomes like a fully formed person that we never fucking me. His his loss because he's overcome that adversity. It's even greater. But that's right. And because everything is about everything that the father is talking about is about the things that Josh wanted to do in the future. Without it being really obviously that, without it being really kind of, you know, cheesy. Fuck Will Wheaton is good in this episode. This is the Will Wheaton that was in standby me, you know. This is the sort of material we could have had on a regular basis if they bothered. And after that speech, we cut to the flag at half staff and establishing shot with the flag at half staff. Then we cut back and we're looking straight into Wesley's face in an uncomfortable way. The look on that falcan's face. He showed me the evidence, right? So good. I mean, some of these special effects are a bit, you know, it's very Babylon 5 CG there on the screen, but... It's probably their 1st attempt to really do that, isn't it? But because they're doing it on a small screen, they can kind of get away with it. Is it been tarted up for the new version or is this the old effects? No, it looked pretty much like that, I think. I really like. One of the things that I really like too is the solar system. You know, the fact that we talk about Titan and Memus. Um, you know, and we see Saturn in the background. I think that's terrific. Well, because they just don't do much of this, do they? Like we head around the universe, but we don't really head to earth and space, like the space that we know, you know, I think it's great. Because they know they can't really pull it off, you know, where they've got that filtration plan, but that's what it's cheaper not to do nowadays. We're back to work all the time in Kurtzman, Shrek, because we can afford to do it. Yeah, fancy season on earth. Yeah, yeah. Oh, Wesley, you lying through your teeth now. No. Well, he's not volunteering any new information. I just think, I just think, uh, Edna, as the dad, I just can't take my eyes off him. He's so good, isn't he? And having him sit next to Beverly in that China as well. Well, she's just all sitting there like a robot like usual, but you know. Yeah. Of course he's innocent. And this, you know, like having Wesley described the Jaeger loop and even acted out for our benefit as the audience. It's really great. Now he's here because both Brand and Satelk know what's in the satellite image that we're about to see, and you have her, and he's saying, I want you to be absolutely certain about what you're saying now, I want you to be careful, and she's concerned because she thinks that he's about to perjure himself. That's a lot. such a great rug, Paul. Yeah, yeah. Although, surely, wouldn't they know about these satellites recording data around here? Oh, no, but I think that's genius. I think that's absolutely superb that it's just a straight satellite that happened to catch them for a moment, way off in the distance. It wouldn't work anywhere near as good if it wasn't Wesley on the stand when this bit of evidence. It's bolder, you know, if it was one of the offers, it's got to be Wesley. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, it has to be Wesley. No, absolutely, it has to be. explain this, Mr. Crusher. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Those tight close-ops on his face, like, and on his. Yeah, yeah, yeah. on both of them. I mean, look at the look, she just gave Cito. You can see that. Oh shit. No, it's terrific. It's terrific. And look, like, she's really concerned. Like her response here, she's not trying to get him. She doesn't want him to do this. She's, you know, so Telecom looks like he relishes catching them out, but she doesn't. He's really concerned that his camera went even closer on his face. He was not afraid of that, that bloody lens at all. Always Beverly now. Yeah, and surely, analysing the flight recorder. Don't worry, Wesley, we're going to get you out of this. Look as if you were lying. Oh my god. Unfortunately, that's very artificial dialogue. As we've said, whenever Gangs gets artificial dialogue. She does sound rather like an Android. What is great? She's saying the data must have been tampered with and Wesley goes Mom, come on. Like, what? You're right, that wig is massive. How much hair is she actually got under that? I don't know. I don't know. We still haven't seen her stomach. you noticed? I think this was the season. I love this. Don't try to protect me and it's really only this time that it occurs to me that he's dissuading her from doing what he is doing. You know, don't prioritise your relationship with me over the truth. He says, stay out of this, but the camera cuts away before Beverly as a sort of an acting reaction of like, oh, maybe he is hiding something, you know, like, yeah. We do get a shot of her face when he tells the truth. sort of hanging on the grass there. This is a great location work they've done for this. It really is, isn't it? Yeah. They really sell it, I think. And it's a futuristic looking building. good. And I think they choose the right shots. you know, where they put the Golden Gate Bridge in and the flags and everything. It's well done. Yeah. The 90s trek. So, Again, it's great. isn't it too? Because the other thing too. Like, I mean, if it's not for this episode, we don't get Starfleet Academy, do you think? And this is the only time. I mean, we have Starfleet Academy and Prodigy a little bit, but basing a show on Starfleet Academy, I think, doesn't happen without this episode. I don't think we get lower decks without the episode lower decks either. That opportunity. I saw a look at. absolutely. Yeah for sure. I think that they're both true. So that makes some 2 of the most important episodes of the next generation then. Yeah, yeah, yeah. and Ms and Cetos in both of them. Cadet Cito, as in both of them. Oh, fuck. Whenever we do that, lower decks, man, they're saying where Picard's angry with her, it is an astonishing scene. Heartbreaking. It's so hard Um, so, yes. See, what's happening there? That's absolutely important, and he needs to hear this before he can come to the conclusion about the Culvert Starburst in the next scene. Yeah? He needs to hear from Boothby that they would follow him off a cliff. Yeah, that they would follow... Like it's a bad thing over, is he? No, but he does put it that way. And so I think that Booth be as wise enough to suspect what's happened. It's just so great, though, that it's Picard making the realisation rather than some dreadful fucking techno babble, they could have pulled out of their asses to show that they were lying. And in fact, this, I actually think the techno babble here, which is all stuff about how you fly one of these little ships, you know like the interlock and all of that sort of stuff. It all sounds plausible. It sounds like you would describe how a car works and just them thinking aloud, like data and Geordie thinking aloud, like no one gives, no one does better techno Apple than LaVar. I think this is a pretty good techno Apple scene. Definitely here. Does she get a line in this scene? No, I don't think so. But you see what I'm saying about how, you know, she's there at the start and then she's there with Wesley and then she's in the courtroom and then she's in his room and now she's here during the investigation and then she just vanishes. Then she disappears from the episode. She does see, we see her seeing him tell the truth. Right? We do, can't tell me, actually. I'm watching her, actually, in there and see if she sells it. And there it is. ignite the plasma where he just suddenly looks up and realises and he underplays it as well, but he suddenly looks up, then we go to the ad break with that revelation. another actor who's not afraid of an extreme close-up. Oh my god, that's what they were trying to do. And this is the best scene in the episode. Absolutely. absolutely killer scene. And again, you watch the register. Like whenever we talk about the relationship between the 2 of us and whenever we go military and say we're not doing that now, we're talking about the truth. It's so good. I mean, basically, I could cut for all of the dialogue and, you know, Picard's basically just saying, oh, fucking no, you are lying. You tell the truth or we are through. Basically that's what he's saying in this scene. But he's saying why it's important to tell the truth. That's the thing because he knows that he's not telling the truth because of his relationship with Nick. He's talking about what's at stake. Like, even that moment where, like, you invited to imagine that an accident where 5 cadets died, and we've already seen the affair very low key way on Starfleet Academy, you know, the effect that Josh's death has had, we have, we remember it every time we go outside. All 5 of them. Just the arrogance of thinking, you know, yeah, but we're the ones that can do it. We're the ones that can pull it off. With the kids. Oh, they're fucking idiots, aren't they? But that is kids. Like, that's absolutely understandable that kids would do that. You are right then having a 27-year-old, it rather blunts the fact that these are. I mean, they get in child actors in valiant, but yeah, yeah, yeah. As a writer, I can probably... That's a result. But the impact is more because they are clearly, you know, 18, 19 year olds. Yeah, yeah. No, Robert's too old for this. You choose not to answer, but you've given an answer to the inquiry. I've always said, you know, when Avery's angry. It's terrifying, but when Patrick's angry. It's... You can't tower over him like Avery, he does. Listen to him. I said it, the accident occurred during the loop, and it did. Don't you fucking try... But it's a live emission is still in a lot is still a lie. You know, yes, you told the truth, but he didn't tell the truth. He said, I have no idea. You know, I don't know, you know, yes, we were still in a diamond slot formation, you know. It's no small order, you know, to hold your own against Patrick Stewart in a scene on this. Like, you know, like, look, yeah, maybe you say he's overrated. He is a Shakespearean actor. He's a good actor, you know. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think Wheaton is there, beat for beat. But look at him saying, this is the relationship that I have with you. You knew every control. I know how good you are. I know how important you are. I don't care because you have to tell the truth. Our relationship, I'm not I'm not going to do what you're doing to Nick. I'm not going to protect you. I will go in and tell the truth if you don't. And that's what you should do. You know, and it's so good. It's so well done. Do you not remember how many of these lunatic admirals we've met over the years? This is the 1st step to that, all right, by making this joint. Well, yes, exactly. Exactly. Thinking that you're above the fucking law. I'm gonna make this simple for you, Mr. Crusher. Oh boy. It's so good. It's so great. And look at his eyes wide and he just goes, captain. like as if he's just going to, talk to you normally because I know you and he just says, no. Fuck off. Get out. You know, like, you're not going to talk to me like we're friends or like I have a relationship with you. You are just going to tell the truth. And that's all. And it's so, like you said, the structure is so dramatic because you've had the scene, well, there's another one now where he's really pushing on him, do it for your friends, you know, we're all going down with you. You've had the scene where he confronts the dad and the dad thinks that his son's done terrible things. So the stakes in both directions are there. So whatever decision he makes, somebody loses out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's really good, isn't it? And the fact that this is just a series of 2 handers. Like, there's just, this is all people in rooms talking because that's all we can do. It can be done though, right? Be great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so this, again, is him being browbeaten for not living up to sort of moral standards, but they're different moral standards. He wants to call Captain Picard a liar. Well, I mean, he doesn't really. They would have got away with it, wouldn't they? They were about to get it. So he stands up as the bell is still echoing. So she rings the bell to end the inquiry. We can still hear the bell and he stands up and says, I want to add to my testimony. So that demonstrates that they would have got away with it. how dramatically we demonstrate. The reactions between all the kids when he gets up. Just the, the, again, nonverbal Cito, and they're all just looking at each other like, oh, God, what is going to happen now? It's just terrific But again, what he does for them is he does them a favour. You know, he does them a favour. She's Cito wasn't going to be okay with it. You know, and Cito pays for what she did. And, you know, that gives her the strength to stand up to Picard in lower decks and say, I did the wrong thing, and I paid for it and I'm not going to be made to kind of constantly relive it or relive it. So shitty what he says. It's such a, like, it's a pitch perfect writing for a bully. You did this. You're deciding that. Who the hell are you to make these decisions for us? Picard told you some story about duty and honour, you know, some story, and that's enough for you to turn your back on your friends. But it's like, like a story about duty and honour. He reminded you that it's honourable to tell the truth that it's your duty to tell the truth in this... Wow, in this circumstance. I got you on this team. gave you a chance. You owe me. Yep. Yeah. So he's super manipulative. Like he's really, and I think he plays it really well. I think he plays obnoxious and unlikeable well if he's discovered that. Extremely well, especially when he's in a relationship, my word. Oh, there you go. Now he's, and I know, I know ultimately when it's all exposed, I know Locano does do what Boofy says. He does go down for the team. He does take the blame. He does say that. But like, unfortunately, after the event, yeah. Your true character is before the event before somebody else takes the choice out of your hands. And, and it makes, it reinforces that thing that you said before where someone's going to lose and it matters that Nick loses, that Nick at least does the right thing by his friends once he's in that situation and says it was really basically me, and then he walks away. Three different ways he tried in that scene, Nathan. Three ways. First of all, it was like, who the hell are you? Like trying to make him feel very small with an egg. The 2nd thing is, I did deal this for you. you owe me And then the 3rd thing he tries is, well, fine, if you want to take the blame for this, you do it. and let us get away scot free. every direction of that conversation. He was come. Yeah, yeah, yeah, awful. just awful. And this, like, look, she's not angry. She's not angry. She's not... to be this sort of mumsy type actress, didn't it? They could look very concerned about them all the time. Well, again, that's what we get with Holly Hunter in Starfleet Academy. Do you know what I mean? Who's a kooky old lady who really cares about these kids. There's a, there's a character who dies, like a, a student from the war college dies in Starfleet Academy. a whole episode about how that affects the kids. And having her watch them go through it, you know, like it's amazing. And I think she's great and much more understated, much less, you know, we've got much less time to get to know her. But I think she really sells her. Look at the Vulcan there. He looks absolutely appalled that he couldn't get a guilty conviction out of any of them. He's still looking at them like, you know what, right? I'll be watching a lot of you now But look, they look like Cito looks really stricken. Like she looks really upset. Yeah, there we go. Well done, Wesley. And that's a great reaction from Picard there. He's not relieved either. Do you know what I mean? Like, he's not particularly believable. The camera's stating on the dad. whilst Wesley's telling the truth. Yep. Yeah, I know. really good, isn't it? It's just really good. Oh, there's Beverly. And the kids, Gene. Like, Gene's not angry at him, you know, and Cito's really stricken. Like it's all just terribly well done. And like he tells the dad. He says, we thought we could do it. We were wrong. Yeah. And Josh died, you know. I do like the fact that he spells out he wasn't ready and we made him. We made him do that. Because it wasn't a huge kindness down that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because that's what it's all about. That was the important thing. It's personal truth, you know, it's it's not just setting the record straight. It's not letting Josh's dad thing that think that Josh did something that caused that nearly killed all of her. Ultimately, Nathan. I think thus more important than just telling the truth, you know? No, but because you're right, finally telling the truth is important. though. Do you know what I mean? That's why telling the truth is important. Um, I think, you know, I mean, do you remember? We're in Home Front of Paradise Lost. It's the red squad, isn't it? They're the new Nova Squadron, the best of the best. Noggs desperately trying to get in there. He's going to Cisco and he's like, are you sure you really want to? you know? Do you not remember what happened before? And they're the ones doing the terrorist acts on behalf of the, you know, mad admiral of the week. Yes, yeah. So, again, I think probably ending on Nick, just saying, no, I have nothing to add, which is him, he's not, but he, of course he does have something to add, we're just getting it narrated to us by Picard now. Would it have been better when we heard it if we've heard it from his lips rather than afterwards? So I wondered whether it would have been better to have Wesley get up and say, I have something to add to my testimony. And then we fade out, but I think absolutely no, we needed to see him. Look at those busts they put into the set. I had to suggest we're in the ornamental gardens. I'm sorry, to interrupt you. But they were fast vanishing. But yeah, proper consequences. He feels guilty. He feels bad. and he says, yes, you should feel bad. I think that's great. You're going to have a difficult time and you deserve it. Everybody will know what you did. Yeah, yeah. You've gone for being the ones that everybody looks up to to the ones that everyone sort of points at now in the gardens. I love this relationship between Picard and Wesley. Trust Romor to take something that was so cack-handed in season one and to deliver this sort of dramatic worth out of the relationship. Bravo, sir. Even when he gives Boothby's line to him as well. You knew what you had to do. I just gave you a push so that you would do it, which is what Boothby says to Picard. And so, you know, the 2 of them go off. They're similar in the same way as they've had the same experience. Um, and so it does leave us. It doesn't close things off eventually, they decide to close it off in Journey's end, but it doesn't close off him having a successful career. I do also love that last special effects shop where it sort of zooms out, but the way that Picard and Wesley just sort of walk in opposite directions is so staged. Yeah. It's still not this trek, right? Yeah, for all of the plaudits. We rained upon it in the last hour. It is still 90s television. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's pretty great 90s television, actually. I think this is a really strong example of what you call the imperial phage of TNG. And this was the sort of work that they were delivering. I'd say every other episode in 4345. I'm a bit more dodgy on six, but I certainly think in those middle seasons. Yeah. You can see why at this point it was like storming the ratings Charles, can't you? Yeah, it's properly accessible. It's really good. That was so terrific and it really had something proper to say. I just thought it was great. And I liked it much better this time than I ever have before, I think. I think the only way for us to go with TNG in the future is, you know, down somewhere terrible. I don't think we're going to do. Yeah. We've already done, man. All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to work out where we're going next. This was my choice. And so you have the helm of the Randomiser this time. Where are we going? I mean, we're on a three-way streak. Oh, we're not next track at the moment. with timeless trials and tribulations on the 1st duty. Oh boy, well, my finger's on the pulse. I'm going to press the button. I've put in everything by the way. I haven't done this for a while. You know, I've been sort of indulging in choosing the seasons. Now you've given me the option. But I figure it's time, you know, to sort of have a good old look like that. Oh, well, the 1st one that comes up is one we've already done. It's Space 9 is the Muse. much derided, but we enjoyed it. I thought it was pretty good. Yeah, your random Star Trek original series episode is season two episode three, the changeling. What's that about? I think we've done that one, haven't we? Oh, we covered this on. What's that about? Oh, episode 32. It was quite a while ago. Oh, yeah, it's not nomad, is it? Yeah, yeah. Oh, he had a wonderful string, didn't he? Okay. Your Star Trek? No, I'm not doing this shit. Oh, good golly. No, you'll say yes, but I'm just gonna press it again. Your random Star Trek Next Generation episode is season seven episode 18, Eye of the Beholder. Do you remember this one? It's when Marina does one of her sort of Jessica Fletcher murder mysteries and she's just started dating Worf. Oh, okay. She gets lots of sort of a bit of suspicions like voiceovers she gets. Okay. Yeah, was when the ensign left the observation lounge at 1585, you know, it's very bad. How is it possible that I can't remember that at all? I thought I knew TNG off my heart? I do remember that. It's an episode. I've got no memory of that all. Your random thick space, no one episode is season three, episode 23, family business. Now that's um, that's the one where Court goes home for the 1st time, uh, and we 1st meet Moogie in the 1st actress that plays her and the only time, because she hated the makeup so much. She has to be naked in that. She has to take off, so I had to slap latex all over her back, her arms, everything. The poor cow. Let's keep going now. Oh, another one we've already done. Your random Star Trek, next generation episode is season five episode 9, a matter of time. Oh, yeah. Which we thought was all right, but not as good as we remembered it being. No, that's fair. Ooh, it is a two-parter though. Okay. Your random Deep Space 9 episode is season one, episodes one and two. Episary. You will discard your weapons and take us to sector 001. How do you feel about two-parter, though? I don't mind. I'm happy to do a two-parter. Why not? I mean, we've done a lot of 7 so we can sort of, through the comparisons of where everyone started off. Yeah, yeah. Sort of where Terry was all at sea and then I had the crazy sort of mum hair. didn't she? Yeah, yeah, terrible American lady hair, didn't she? in that episode. really bad. We can see what a 90 Star Trek episode looks like when it has $18 million thrown at it. Yeah. Well, mostly thrown out of the sets, really. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's up to you. I'm happy to keep pressing. I think we should do it. Why don't we do it? I think that would be fun. How many of these pilots have we done now? So we have done no 90s Star Trek pilots. Encounter at Farpoint? No, caretaker, no. Oh, broken bow, thank God we haven't done that one. We haven't done the TOS one either, have we? Yeah. We haven't done it. Well, it's not really, like, it doesn't really quite count. We did the Stranger Worlds pilot, and we did the Starfleet Academy pilot. A little bit cheaper, special home there. We have done the Picard one, have we? Nope, we haven't done the lower decks one. discovery one. time with your pilot, then. We've done plenty of finale. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay. No, that's perfect. Let's do that. Okay. Well, as usual, DS9, I'm sure I will have plenty to say. Yeah, yeah, let's do it. W wonderful. Yep. Can't wait. You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley, where online at untitled Star Trek Project com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts. Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lam. This episode was recorded on the 21st of April 2026 and released on the 24th of April. We'll see you next time for Star Trek Deep Space 9, Emissry. Okay, I'm recording. I'm going to try and do some something fancy with the sound as well, because my Adobe Audition will go away when I leave school and I'm trying to come up with a freeway of treating the sound. It's a bit cleaner. That... Yes, go, E, right? I only have I only have minor issues with this. I do think it's good. I do have a the Dr. Beverly stuff is very old. I think that I think she can't hold it, but I've got a reason. I've got a theory about what's going on there because I think this is a really like even more timely episode than it ever was. And I think like what Ronald D. Moore wanted to do is wrong. And I think that this is a really, really strong and important episode. I don't know what he wanted to do. Oh, I'll tell you what. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, it resonates a little bit now after Starfleet Academy and there's things in it that I'm noticing this time that I had never thought of before, which I think is a really interesting minor theme to it, but I just think the overwhelming theme, which is so interesting, which is touched on again by more in, is it called Valiant? Yeah. I prefer Valiant, but I will explain why I do. Yeah, but I think that this does a, this is doing something different from valiant, but it is exploring something in the same area sort of thing. I mean, this one. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's, uh, and and I think there's some just terribly good things in it. Like just things that are. Yeah, the dark is amazing, I think. The scenes for the dad are great. And just how, well, no, yeah, we'll talk about it. But I think he's terrific. I think the Boothby thing is a brilliant idea, like just what they do with booth beers, excellent. Well, it's unusual for them to set something up and then actually see it, you know, deliver these dreadful exposition backstories and actually meet someone. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he's been mentioned a couple of times, I think. It's not just... It's the one where they go off in the shuttlecraft together. No, there's another one as well. I think in series two. Is he mentioning that one? Because Picard's talking about the academy a lot. Yeah, he talks about the Norsicans. He talks about the Nausicans. Oh, yeah, they follow... You follow us that up as well, doesn't he? It's like there will be fucking consequences on this thing. We'll find a thing that's cool and then develop it. Like, it's great. It's really good. Oh, and if you're, um, if you're looking for a tag for this episode, what I've seen this week about, um, you know, the new CEO of Paramount, suggesting that we go back to the great days of Jonathan Archer and Enterprise, have you seen? No. I, I, they're moving in a series with Bacula in it, back of Archer and like, let go back to the glory days of loads of white men out in space. Good grief. Get rid of all of this. Holy shit, though. Like, no one, they're kind of going, oh, go woke, go broke. But all of kind of Hollywood entertainment is woke and like the right wing stuff is weird, niche Christian crap that no one wants to watch that has Kevin Sorbo in it. Like no one's going to watch a Star Trek like that. People were watching Academy, but no one's going to watch. What were the numbers like? Did they come out? Yeah, it wasn't as good as they said and it was enough for them. And I'm not I'm not entirely convinced that that it was because it was too left wing that it got canned, although I think Gina Yasher thinks it was. It felt as if they've just been systematically shown it down. Maybe it's money. Yeah, well, that's it, and because the streaming's kind of gone to hell. I mean, Doctor Who was kind of victim to it as well. So, I don't know. I don't know. There had been talk about an archer series called United, which was going to be about the, um, you know, and he was moving it. I don't think it ever got to any sort of stage or it's one of those sort of fan speculations. It's like, you know, Star Trek legacy of Star Trek that much that we're looking back to the heady days of enterprise. But I mean, that was the problem. Do you know what I mean? Like, you can understand once they get Picard. Once they get Patrick Stewart and they can think, oh, we can get 5 seasons out of this. Let's just do that. That's incredible. We've got Patrick Stewart and he's wanting to play Picard. Let's whatever, whatever our plans were, put them on hold. lets do that. And it like turned out he could only do 3 seasons. Um, uh, everything else that people want to fanwank about Star Trek legacy and Star Trek year one is all just let's do the Star Trek that we've already done. And the thing about, and even Stranger Worlds, you know, because that fan thing... It was a safe band, wouldn't it? Yeah, and they had a great cast and stuff like that was all kind of working really well. But it is a bit safe. And so something like Starfleet Academy or something like prodigy where they're doing something super new and super weird and neither of them kind of end up landing is a big, like it's a huge shame, I think. Maybe it all sort of vanish for a little while. Again, like it does, you know, we have these fits and spurs with Star Trek and with Doctor Who. And then it'll come back with the new discovery. you know, someone going, oh my god, let's try this. totally out there version. Yeah, which might be a complete distance away from what Kurtzman Trek has been. And maybe that's a good thing, you know? there's a lot of it, right? It's not like we're short-changed on Kurtzman trick. There a lot of runtime there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so we'll see. I mean, it'd be nice if, you know, it wasn't ending, but... It's just sad that when you look at the runtime compared to 90s trek, you know, it's like one tenth. That's right. It's just so much to me. Jesus Christ. At least a 3rd of it was good. Yeah, that's right. That's right. including these. Okay, come on, let's do this. Let's do this. us do the thing. Hey, Joe. Hi.