Star Trek: First Contact

Hey, Joe. Hi. And hey, Fraser. Hey, Nathan. So today, we are watching the 8th Star Trek film. It's Star Trek 1st contact, and it was released in 1996 in November here in Australia, and just a little bit later in December in the UK, which means it's a Christmas movie. Oh, fantastic. Yeah, yeah. So let's let's just start by saying what we think of it. I think that one of my jobs here is to have unusual opinions about a night in Sick Bay, which is, of course, excellent and Genesis and so on. How do you feel about this film, Fraser? Um, it's a tricky one this. I can never figure out, is it simply the best of the next generation films or is it the best of the films full stop? Oh, that's a high bar, Fraser. This and the Wrath of Korn are just up there at the top. On certain days, it'll be Rathicorn on certain days, it'll be be 1st contact. I don't think I can work this highly enough, to be honest. It's absolutely fantastic. Yeah, I think I'm in a similar position. I think this might be the best Star Trek film. It is without a doubt, the best Star Trek, the Next Generation film. but it is entirely possible it's the best one or up. And I think that's sort of slightly boring. I feel that I'm coming at this with the midest possible opinion. Well, don't worry, I'm here to contradict both of you. I mean, I disagree with both of you, unfortunately. I do think this is a high bar next generation film, but overall that's a low bar. Because the other 3 are dismal in many ways. So this is the fact this stands out like a sore thumb just by being good is not high praise. I don't think it's as good as the best of the TOS movies. And I think there is one massive problem with this movie that I just can't get over. Is it Neelix? No, I'd rather I like it even for turning up in this. Yeah, without all that hideous latex slapped all over his face for once. I think that Paul, is this Ron Moore and Brannan Braga writing this? Um, no, it's it's Rick Berman, Branen Braga. Okay, maybe that's the problem then, because I don't think the pair of them can get out of the episodic TV mindset. And this, to me, feels like an extremely expensive, incredibly well executed, 2 part next generation episode, full of the colony planets, full of lots of scenes walking around the spaceship, full of the Borg, all these things that we normally get in our Star Trek, the next generation episodes, and it's great. I don't remember, it's really fun, but don't feel like a movie to me at all. Not in the way that 6 feels like a movie that we're spanning the universe, not like the way 5 felt like a movie where we're going somewhere batshit crazy with God. Not like 4 felt like a movie to me where we went back in time. And this, to me, it feels like an incredibly good Star Trek, the Next Generation episode. And I think that's a problem. Yeah, I mean, there are things about the Star Trek original series films like the amount of time that's passed since the show was on and just generally the bigger scale, the willingness to change the status quo that those films do. And the way that they kind of move off format as well, you know they lose the enterprise and all of that sort of thing. This is, I think, as you say, very, very much like an episode of Star Trek, the Next Generation, but I think, I think the stakes are higher, and I think it just looks so amazing. Yeah, I mean, there's £40000000 in it. It's a Star Trek the Next Generation episode with £40000000 spent on it. You know, like, of course, it looks amazing. But it doesn't really have much ambition beyond going back in time and doing your standard Star Trek episode and running around the ship firing a Borg like your standard Star Trek episode. And that's not a bad thing because we like standard Star Trek episodes. it is a movie. It is a movie. I remember seeing this at the pictures. I remember back in December of 1986 going to see this. It was the 2nd Star Trek film I managed to see at the cinema, the 1st billion generations. And it was a fantastic film. I went to see it twice. I don't often go and see films twice, but I made a point of I have to go back and see this again. It felt very much like a new start for the franchise as it were. You had the show, the show ended, you got to fill them out of it. The generation's very much is a Star Trek episode, but with a bigger budget, and this felt completely fresh and new and exciting new uniforms, new ship, there was a bigger sense of scale to it. There was a different sort of soundtrack to it. The structure of it is very much a film. I'm going to completely disagree that this feels like a two-parter because it has no flab in it whatsoever. From the very 1st scene we are in it to the action. The plot kicks off and it doesn't stop going. You go straight through, you go back in time, you go to planet Earth, and then you have your Airplot and your B plot is very filmic, and I'm still waiting for you to tell me anything this film has done that's completely original and ambitious in creative terms. It's it's not. So here's what I think. Here's what I think, is that it takes a big hole in the Star Trek law, and it's an important moment in Earth's history that we've never been asked to wonder or speculate about. We know nothing at all about it. And so even though the B plot, and let's call it the B plot, even though it actually gets the title of the film. The B plot on earth was Zefraim Cochrane and Geordie and Riker and all of that sort of thing, where it's made clear that Watts at stake is the very existence of Star Trek itself. And so it has a bigger scale in Star Trek, the Next Generation because in a sense, what happens if we don't win is there's no Star Trek. And the thing that I always say about Birmingham Braga is that they showed no real apparent interest in the politics of Star Trek. But here, the politics of Star Trek are right in the centre. And what's at risk is that fantastic socialist utopia where there's no money, no poverty, no disease, no war. In 50 years time, that's going to happen. Um, and there's that moment at the end where, where Picard says to Lily, I'm really excited for you. I envy you because of what you're about to go through and what you're about to experience. And so like what you're about to experience is enterprise, so it's not that great. But essentially, that's what I think gives it a bigger scale than a normal Star Trek episode. It's not the, you know, the future of the federation that's at risk. It's the federation and its ideas themselves. And I think that's huge and it's not at all what I expect from those two. I said to you in the chat that one of my issues with this movie was that I did really like this movie. I want to make that clear. I just think it would be very boring of the 3 of us city of 2 hours saying this movie is amazing. It's Christmas. I'm going to be the Christmas Grinch, Star Trek Christmas Grinch. One of my issues is I'm washing it now and I'm not watching it when it came out, because when it came out, it blew my mind especially visually. Now I'm watching it. I've seen the 1st contact plot done about 15 other times in various Star Trek episodes. I've also seen DS9 do, you know, creatively ambitious things that far supersede this movie and I've seen Kurtzman Trek do things that far supersede that. So this all feels a little Pat now compared to how it would have done then. And that is kind of a problem when you come back to things, right? You can't really put yourself back into the mindset of when you were, when did this come out? 95? What was I, 15? 96. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 16 years old. And so, and, and, and, you know what? I'm going to be positive. So I'm going to shove in my last issue now. It's just the Borg. I'm so bored of the Borg, and that's not a 1996 problem. That is a 2024 problem. in that Voyager just ekes the Bork to death and then they came back again in Kurtzman trick and that was a bit tedious. And I'm just so bored of them now. Like, what, there's, there really is nothing particularly exciting about the ball beyond best of both worlds. And after that, in terms of imagination, it just deflates like a balloon, you know, we can't really do much else with them. The thing that works with the Bork here is obviously they've just got the money to blow up the shit spectacularly and have amazing action sequences with them and they are very, very, very cool. But I'm a bit Borg fatigued. So I did watch this going, well, that was fun, but it was the Borg. I think the interesting thing that they do with the Bork here, Joe is the queen. They're bringing the queen. Yeah, but they've done the queen load since. That's another 2020. Oh my word. back in time. Come on, let's go back in time. watching this now with you. Let's go through that Chroniton tunnel, follow the sphere. back in time and let's just enjoy something new. This is another thing, you know, the, we had the Borg in next generation. We come in DS9 before we had them in Voyager really as well. We got a sort of fresh injection into the Borg, taken away from just, you know, faceless sort of cybermen, give them a bit of character, and funnel that couch into one specific character, this sort of paradox as you were of the collective hive mind being one individual. And that really works. You can see why Voyager wanted to do more with this character, why they wanted to bring her back Italy, though. Badly. Yeah, but we're not talking for you, Joe, we're talking for his contact. It's really good. It's great. Yay. That's good. I have some reservations about the poor queen and I can just about forgive her because the Borg queen that we saw in Picard series 2 was so fantastic. Like absolutely brilliant. I liked the Borg when they couldn't be understood or reasoned with. And you lose something. What do you gain as Alice Krieg? And she's awesome, and those scenes with her and data, and those scenes with her bicard are just tremendous. Like I can see why they did it, but you do lose something, you know, where the Borg is just that collective voice that you hear earlier. And remember when they would appear on the, on the viewscreen in in best of both worlds and things, where all you would see is just the ship, because there's no one talking to you because everyone's talking to you. You know, they're implacable and incomprehensible, whereas you've got sort of sexy Alice Krieg, who's sort of a bit moist and has brought her breasts with her, and, you know, like, that's all great. Like, I'm absolutely on board with that, but it's, it's a little bit less interesting, I think, than the original conception. Very confusing, you know, because I've been listening to quite a few big finishes lately with Alice Krieg in them. She's one of their staple actors now. So here in the Ball Queen and Tom Baker, because she does sort of the same voice, some of her roles. My god, it's like clash off the clash of the series, you know, it's very confusing. Well, I think we should probably go in. I mean, I have been a bit a bit rude at the start of this episode but I do want to say it's a really good movie. It's super fun to watch and most of the issues are mine rather than the movie's problems. Yeah. I mean, I have to say that I agree with you about the scale thing. Like, that isn't something that had occurred to me. And, you know, when we talk about Enterprise Series 4 and how we like it because it changes the status quo, and that's a thing that the Star Trek films do. you know, Kirk's getting older and and things change, is an admiral. and then, you know, this is just a couple of years after Star Trek, the next generation ended. And so it's still the status quo, even though he blew up the ship last time, you know, he's the ship back in a thrilling new form. But given that that's not what they wanted to do, and given that that, you know, they're just coming back only a few years after the show finished, I think this is a pretty astoundingly great piece of work, and it vastly surpasses most of what they did when they were writing for the show. It's like the voyage home of Next Generation, isn't it? I think it's the TNG movie that anyone can watch. Yeah. I'll talk a little bit about that because I do think that that's one of the things that is the movie's job. And I think that Star Trek generation failed terribly at the job of being for normal people to go to the cinema and watch, whereas this absolutely nailed it. Fraser, Fraser is a problem, you know, because we've done the voyage home and 1st contact back to back last year and this year where he hadn't got many good movies left. Oh, we've got loads of good movies left. We're just talking about. I'm going to shout out now letting you talk because you're going to be much nicer than me. All right. Well, in that case, I think we'll go in. So I will count us in. Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off. This opening credits thing is very boring, isn't it? Oh. I thought it was to. The problem you've got is you listen to it without the sound because, I mean, I put this on to check the subtitles before we recorded and I didn't turn it off because you get the little Paramount mountain and you get the do-do-do. You get the, and then you get the best soundtrack out of an entire Star Trek film kicking in. It's one theme. Well, take your word for it. I can't hear it right now. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. The problem we can't hear. We should all probably just turn the volume up and shut up for 2 minutes. That, this, this theme, I absolutely do. I stand and do my dishes, listen to this music. I'll walk the dog and I'll listen to this music because I just absolutely adore it. I think that, you know, credits we don't get credits anymore. Do it in films, we don't get opening credits. We just go straight in. I just love it. The, the, the, the names just appear in, out of the fog, as it were, backing off and then, you know, we'll eventually go into Picard's eye, which is a bit grimmer. But yeah, I love it. I mean, in generations, they did that bottle flying through space you remember? Which is slowly. And then eventually smashed into the spaceship. So there was a bit of visual invention. This is just a load of names. Oh, but what means? It is literally only the names. And look, I think the music is really great, and I can see why they went for it in Picard series 3, although I was a little bit sorry, to lose the original, the original soundtrack, but I mean this is better than the Star Trek, the Next Generation theme, and maybe this is the music that we remember them by. It could have been much worse than the next generation. It's terrible. But, but this is just the names out of focus coming into focus and they'll be in front of the next name that's out of focus. I bet he's completely open at the end of... undiscovered... No, no. No, that's wonderful. I love that. It's wonderful. Isn't that signing off though, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. terrific. great. But I think the problem is that normally you do a spa, you know like you do a uh, um, a starfield, don't you? You go through a starfield, and we, you know, we kind of did a joke where we didn't know whether it was a massive, you know whether it was Viga, and it turns out it was a bottle of Dom Perignon, you know, and that was kind of a visual gag, and I thought that worked kind of well. But what do you do here? You can't, you want to open up in the most intimate way possible on Picard's eye. So you've got nothing. Do you know what I mean? And so we get this shot of his eye. And this incredible opening, Sean. So good. Oh, look, God, I forgot who wore the old uniform, just for a 2nd yeah. Yeah, well. Attention to detail. Well done, Jonathan Frakes. There's your skill, Joe. Look at that. It's visual scale. It's not creative scale. That's what I'm saying. And I think it's really brilliant too, the way that the, the, the his iris and pupil keep being repeated as we go through these various circulular elements as well. You know, as it pulls back. We get more and more circles and stuff, even though it's this sort of Borg thing. Nathan, compare this to those scenes we had going around the ball Cuban Scorpion. Do you remember those ones? I mean, it's so confusing to see next generation lit this well isn't it? Have you, have you thought about what the, what the Borg looked like in Q Haku, where they're just kind of like punchy people in onesies with a, like, you know, like with a few tubes? those ones. They're a bit like the 1st side men, aren't they? You know, sort of cobbled together. See, that's what's happening here too. They're being reimagined and they're using a lot of the designed elements from alien, aliens in particular, I think. Oh, this. is so good. Wow. Um, Yeah, yeah, and that's a new thing that they're doing because they weren't like zombies. Like they weren't like mottled necrotic dead bodies or anything. They were just guys with white makeup. Don't you tell me, Fraser Gregory, they say, like a next generation episode. Look, there's stock admiral number 5 just beaming into the dance squad. I'm just sitting thinking, I wish I had a ready room at work. I could have a napping. Oh, man. Why is he napping? you've got a bridge. I'm off for a nana. He's become like Cassandra now, hasn't he? I know the Borg. Theirs were 1st bit of starship porn on there. Yeah, that is cool. And it's a gorgeous movie. They also say a stunning ship. $40 million. It's a lot of money. It might be a good looking movie. Wow. Look at that nebula as well. Now the little ships are back in the in the observation lounge will come back to yours. In fact, the observation now looks smaller than it did in the old next generation episodes. It's funny, but the bridge is substantially smaller, and we've spoken before about how stupid the Star Trek the Next Generation bridge is because it's got all that space for the cameras to kind of move around. How Darwin looks like in long shot. They don't have to do those shots from the front now trying to get everybody into shot, you know? Although we do know a bit of that. Oh, there's so much handheld in this, though. Oh it's fabulous. Yeah. So one thing that's true is that one thing that you don't realise as you're watching it is that Starfleet Commander completely right about keeping him away because he's a nutcase and he behaves like an absolute, you know, it's only thanks to Lily, who kind of talks him down from being Captain Ahab. And so it turns out they were right to keep him away. This is beautiful. In his defence, he does save the entire rest of the fleet once he gets there. Yeah, that's true. in his favour, you know, in the debriefing afterwards. Yeah, so yeah, you disappeared your order, but you did save the planet Earth. We'll just bust you down to Lieutenant Commander, whatever. You know, when the Enterprise just sort of zoomed into shot there for a second. I'm a bit embarrassed to admit that this morning when I was watching this, I said to my Mark, oh, what shit's that? And then I realised that was the enterprise. I thought there was a fleet coming along and the ball were engaging straight away. I'm so used to that enormous saucer, you know, on the Enterprise D Yeah. Yeah. It's a beautiful ship, though. The sovereign class enterprise E, it really is amazing. Yeah, I mean, that old one was a bizarre design, wasn't it? Top heavy. With the tiny little legs, you know. Well, it's always a little bit. Yeah, it was very top heavy, wasn't it? Like it was the big, big. Like some of those shots from below where it looked very bizarre. It's, they don't surprise deeds, like someone got the enterprise and stood on it. Squish. Can I say something hugely positive about this movie? Go on. I think all of the interactions between the Enterprise crew, all of the banter, all of it works like gangbusters, the chokes land the chemistry is there, like, it's like after, they've got generations out of their system now, all that all, Picard, you know, angsty getting news about his family died, all that bullshit's out of the way. Now we're going to have an adventure and they're all up for it. But they don't lose the angsty bits. There's still so much character for Picard to explore with Picard and to explore with data. I mean, obviously the probably the biggest flaw with this film is that because you were concentrating on 2 characters, the others get a little bit of a shorter shrift, so, you know, poor Beverly poor DNA. I don't think that's a problem, Frank. They have their own idea of strength. They have their moments in the really enjoyable moments, but, you know, obviously for reasons they have to be sideline a little bit. I felt so sorry for Beverly. She's in like, you know, she gets one major scene and she's upstaged by Robert Picardo. Yeah, that's normal, trying to avoid. I think I think that because this has to do the job of being a Star Trek film that other people can watch that's centring on the 2 breakout character, like the breakout character and the central character is the right choice. And in fact, by having a tiny guest cast, they actually do give the crew quite a lot to do. And that might feed into Joe's feeling that it feels like an extended Star Trek episode because there are so few guest actors you know, there's not lots of admirals and things. There's not lots of proud scenes. There's not, well, there's in the holodeck, but it is just focussing on our characters, which is kind of why we're here. I mean, that is a massive strength of the movie because I think James Cromwell and please say the name for me before I say it. Arfrey Woodard. you very much. They're both exceptionally good and but like a really good Next Generation 2 barter. They will bring in a great actor to play a really vivid role. It'd often be James Cromwell actually. It does mean we get less Dr. Beverly as a result, though. The most impressive thing about the new enterprise is how quick it travels. It does travel at the speed of plot. and gets from the... Why did they stop doing fireworks on models? I mean, look at them. No, they're mad. There he is. Yeah, he comes. Yeah. It's off. And I'm a bit of a show. The Defiant. I love that little sting of the Klingon theme into the music as well. Yes. So the guy in the front, that's actually Adam Scott, who is Trevor in the Good Place. He's the demon in the good place. Is he? And he's the lead in severance on Apple TV. And of course, obviously this is nearly 20 years ago, so he's much younger and prezier than he is now. Trevor was great, though. I know, just terrific. He's really good. I must say that in a minute when this Borg ship blows, it is the best explosion in Star Trek of all time. You'll be pleased to hear the admiral just got killed by the way. Is that stock admiral number five? That's right. I mean, the admiral come Nemesis is Janeway, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but I mean, they got the money so they can do bull sort of war action here, can't they? And not a rock inside it. So we'll talk about the rocks later. Um, So, one of the, one of the things that I think is incredibly good here is that the plot is understandable by a normal person it's, we have to make sure that this rocket launches, and we get to that point how quickly, like maybe 15 minutes in, everything is set up, and the, the, your speed of plot remarked before, Fraser it's just incredibly quick. We have this introductory thing. We meet wharf, we're off to the battle, we've pursue the Borg sphere, down the thing, we discover what's at stake, and now we're ready to go. It's really quick. I mean, we're 12 minutes in and I think a lot of the butcher's been spent already. There's your two. You're right. But I will say, though, I did notice then, once we go back in time that the pace just crawls for about 20 minutes and it's not until the Borg starts. So that's an odd way to pay some movie. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. Nothing happens for 20 minutes and then the action starts again. I was like, it's, it's, it's getting you in. It gets, like I said, the plot starts from that very 1st scene. Picard wakes up and the plot is instantly kicked off. We get to this point, we're 15 minutes in, you get to plant earth and then you build a bit of suspense, you have the chance to kind of go, okay, that's, That's the start then. We'll just cool with jets a little bit because we can't keep this pace going indefinitely. We ran out of money. We've just blown it all up. We'll just slow it down a bit. We'll build a bit of suspense and then we will start building it up and we'll take it forward from there. 40000000 Fraser. They've got 4000000 to spend. But we want to spend time with the characters talking. We don't want all to wall to wall explosions. would be a problem. I want to see the scene on the ball ship. you know, when they know the ship's going to blow and they're like, 0 my god, we need a plan B, quick, send the sphere out. They make that decision very quickly, don't they? But, you know, they're good improvisers. Essentially, this is dieholding space. It turns into diehard in space. And even diehard has moments where John McLean has to stop and talk to O. No, but Fraser, I mean, I have to say, they did do Die Hard in space as a next generation episode in Starship Mine. They reference here, I think, at the end in the final scene. anyone wants to do die hard since. It looks more impressive here. That's just Picard going around in a tank top. which is pretty great. I mean, he goes, he's been working out, isn't he? Because he takes all of his gear off in this. Yep, yeah. Yeah, see all of this stuff, you know, the temporal wake, all of that sort of stupid techno babble, which has just needed to make the plot happen, needed to kind of answer our questions. It's perfect, you know? And so there's the mission statement at 13 minutes and 49 seconds you know, we've got to go back and repair the damage that they've caused. It's perfect. I'll tell you what is perfect. You know, in, um, what's the movie Galaxy Quest, where Sigourney Weaver's character goes, look, I've got one thing to do on this show. All right? I say the exposition bits and I'm gonna do it. So Beverly Crusher just came in there a minute ago and went, oh we've got a patient here that needs to see you, captain. I was like, she's literally the Sigourney weepy character in this movie, isn't she? Bless her. She gets to go down to the, like she goes down 1st, doesn't she? It's her and Picard and they end up back on board the ship eventually, but so she gets a bit of a go. This is the most expensive stock colony set we've ever seen. It's clearly on location, isn't it? They've built all these buildings on location and I think it works really well. It's like a small village in Montana and... It looks like a small village in Montana. It does. It's 2063. Is that right? It doesn't look like they've just went out the studios in California to the hills. I do promise. last time. It is the last time I'm going to say this, but $40000000 guys. It better fucking not look like I've just gone out in somewhere in Montana. $40000000 in 1996. is not a huge budget. You know what I mean? It's more than your standard Star Trek... But it's on, it's on screen, like that money is all on screen. They do a really good job with it. They've got James Cromwell in, of course, it's on the screen. Didn't they only have something like 4 Borg costumes? Oh really? Yeah, yeah. CGI'd all the rest. Yeah, yeah. The senior company later where it's like, the door goes up and you just see the laser. That's all CGI. All the rest is just the same 4 or 5 or 6 costumes re, you know repurposed. So obviously, you know, you just move a bit of, you know, techno around your your wetsuit and, you know, you just make them look different, but they are just, you know, compared with generations where they were dressing, um, Jonathan Frakes in, maybe books as um, DS9 uniform, and obviously, you know, that he comes up to his now you are talking, Fraser Gregory. You know, it's a lot it's a lot more professional in that respect. Can we just imagine, let's take what Fraser just said there for a 2nd and imagine Avery Brooks at the end of this film with his gear off, fighting the Hawk in all tunnels. I mean, it would automatically be the best Star Trek we're walking over. Well, I'm thinking about everybody's naked. Come on now. What's more important? I've got to say, though, you know, you know when they do have all those balls on the ship later? Yeah, all those 100s of balls. I mean, I think that was my favourite part of the whole movie. Those middle sections where they were just doing running around the corridors and killing loads of people, like a standard Star Trek episode, but done really, really well. See, my favourite bit. I think is down on the planet where they're helping get the Phoenix launched. I really like that. Of course it is. I know why. I know why. We're gonna have words about that scene, all right? Fraser, can I ask you, please? Oh, for all of these Next Generation, because I don't get to talk to you about Next Generation, ever. Who's your favourites? Um. Ah. That's tricky. I mean. They've all got something going for them, haven't they, really? Well, most of them. Dr. Bev? I wouldn't say she was my favourite. I think I've always liked Geordie, to be honest, because I am a Geordie and we don't have to. But, you know, I mean, I like techno babble. I know you don't like, like it, but you know, it just, I think what the, sort of the next generation onwards really got right was the technobabble and how, although it is just all, you know, fluff and bobbins. It doesn't actually sound fluff and bobbins. It actually sounds like it could actually be, you know, 200 years from now actually true. you know, when you're talking about things like chroniton particles and waves and temporal fields and whatnot. It sounds, it isn't, but it sounds legit. So, you know, data, Geordie characters, I get to do that. Boy, I want to talk about it. wharf. Of course, it's wharf. There's double-hour bastard going around, slashing everyone with knives and whatnot, and then pops up on DS9 to give that a little bit of a even more of a lift than it already had. Nathan, I was just thinking, maybe we should bring in Fraser freelance, as a techno-babble trials later. We do these episodes. We don't have a clue what they're talking about. Just send us the script on, explain what it is. I mean, the great thing is, of course, that you've got LeVar doing most of the techno Babylon, he's fucking brilliant at it. Wow, he's beautiful as well. Yes, be honest. Those lips. So he's Alfred Woodard, who is fresh from her guest appearance in Star Trek lower decks last week. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What, the actress? Or just... No playing Lily. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, come on. I love that shower. Does she have a machine gun? She doesn't have a machine gun. No, she doesn't have a machine gun. She is pretty great. There are quite a lot of guest actors and I'm not going to spoil it for you, but there are quite a lot of guest actors. Was that a last episode? The 2nd last episode. Oh, they're going for it, are they? They are going through it. Yeah. Yeah. And she was wonderful in it. Like it was terrific to see her back. Oh, look, here's Beverly Crusher now. She's medical babble. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I've got to say her hair's never looked better. Look at him. looks fabulous. looks great. It does look great. And here, again, we think that Beverly is good when she knows what she's saying when the when the actor knows what the scene is about. And so she's terrible with technobabble, but she's really good with this stuff. And I loved her. Yes, I'll keep her unconscious. I know about the prime directive. It'll be fine, you know. Sure talk, John. do my job. Go on. That's why that bit where she says to the medical hologram, you know. Make something up. Just distract them. Do it, Jan. Actually, she's convincing in that bit. It's wonderful. All of that bowling in the background. They've got so much money. They could afford to make up a bone ear. I'm not sure. can't remember I think it's about 30000000 in the translation. You could do with an extra 10, I think. Yeah. This is great though. I mean, is that it? Is the rocket a set? It's incredible. they build a rocket? I mean, this is 1996 when we're... We are not at the point of CJ and everything. This is, you know, CJ is starting. It's coming. is amazing. In fact, when you look at the rocket from above, it looks like a Star Trek prop, it has that sort of matte sheen thing, you remember the stupid rocket in Star Trek generations that McDowell's firing at Viridian for? Oh, it looks so cheap. It looks like the walls of, it looks like a panel on Deep Space 9. Do you know what I mean? It's that not this. Like this scene where it looks, it looks shiny. There's a reflective surface there. But otherwise it looks a bit crap. But this, I think, is where Braga and Berman get the idea for what the look of enterprise is going to be because... Enterprise is a sequel to this. It's not a prequel to Star Trek, any of the other Star Trek we've had. It's a sequel to this. It's set just, you know, decades afterwards or, you know, 90, 80 years afterwards. Look at Marina. 4 of that. I never thought of that. Actually, the success of this movie could be wild. It was quite a catalyst of Enterprise. Yeah. Isn't Marina just killing it? She's so good. I mean she's relaxed. It's refreshing It's wonderful. She's so great in this film. Like everything that they give her to do, she's just excellent. And this is where they actually just realised that we could just have her play Marina rather than whatever the hell she's doing in sort of early Star Trek, the next generation, and she'll be genius. It's kind of like, you know, she's the Counsellor, which is a bridge officer. It's just a spare basic. You can get it to go and do a few other bits and bobs that, you know, a bit of security work, a bit of... I mean, no one needs counselling, but maybe they do it a bit. We'll come to that. But yeah, just go look for people. I'll just come around, come for the crack. on nuclear submarines and things like that that the counsellor sits there next to the person in charge of firing all the weapons and that. No, but that's a very deliberate choice that's trying to differentiate Star Trek, the next generation from Star Trek, the original series. Do you know what I mean? is making it more modern and more concerned for the officer's feelings and welfare and well-being and stuff. Like that's a, I, that's a deliberate and surprising choice. women in those roles. Yes, that is bad. I mean, it would have been more interesting if it had been a blow. Of course. Yeah, well, Dr. Miglimo in load X, obviously, who's a bird. Original series, you've just got bull and stone, they want a man up, another drink or something. Have some whiskey. Can I just say extra points for Aiger here who does that fabulous you know, the cameras coming towards her, she turns and sees it and screams. She's awesome. That's so well done. Do you know what? That's where they spent the money. They can afford actual actors for those roles rather than the extras we normally seal those stores. You know, people are getting the episodes. Oh, yeah, ai. Where are we running around now? Are we still on the enterprise? I have no clue where we are right now. So what's happened so far is obviously they've blown up the Borg. Borg of all destroyed. Um, the, trying to figure out how to fix 1st contact and make sure our 1st contact still takes place. But shock cover, the book are not blown up. The book are now invading the Enterprise, and Picard is just great. I mean, just that. The Borg were invading the Enterprise is great. Like one of the things that they do, which I think is genius, is that they, so the ball go on deck 16 and they've cut off deck 16 which is where Sick Bay is in this new enterprise, and everything's hotter and more humid there because that's what things are like on a ball cube. And the only reason that things are like that on a ball cube is so that everyone sweats when they're in those scenes. And because, you know, it's a studio set. Like the Enterprise is a studio set, everything's beautifully temperature controlled, you know, like no one breaks a sweat. And so all of the action seems a little bit less visceral. Here, everyone is sweaty, and because the Borg is well glisten because it's like alien. You know, the everything's covered in swarfiga, you know, aliens you know, they're all slimy, and the Borg are slimy, and the people fighting them are slimy, and Alice Cree is incredibly slimy. And so there's something more visceral about the Borg, and they're more like xenomorphs in alien, I think. Or on the slime and the sex later. Yeah. Yeah. Although I've got to say, I do wonder if there's a less smart reading on why it's so hot, and that is because, you know, Picard is not Kirk. So Picard won't just walk around the Enterprise with his kit off. So they sort of need to find a creative reason as to why at the end of this story. Patrick Stewart. flashing his tits. I'm absolutely certain that the reason that they're doing it though, is that reason is in order to, um, in order to have everyone sweating. Oh my god, it's Nursagawa. Yes. With her, she's got a proper movie hair this week. Like she's got bigger hair than she's ever had before. Okay, here's the EMH program. Oh, you've got to love this bit. I mean, for all that we're saying, you know, this is Star Trek that, um, they're not we can go and enjoy the pictures, you know when this happens as a fan, yes, there's a little Easter regular sitting, you're absolutely. Well, this, the defiant, Ethan Phillips turning up later, there's lots of little nods. This shot, right, where we've got SteadyCam, he's talking to the camera. We don't see the Borg come in. He's backing back, and he hits the wall, and shocks himself, and then does that tiny smile, like the most irreceptible smile, and then goes out, like, it's an absolute mastercard. It's so funny. It's so much funnier than anything Gates would have been able to do. Yes. He gets the Boones line as well, doesn't he? I'm a doctor not a doorstop, so it's just... It's just so fantastic when you know when you're going... He is priceless, isn't it, Robert Picardo? Best of it. You could add him to any Star Trek movie and that movie is a little classier as a result. Well, we've added him to prodigy and to Starfleet Academy. Happy days. But well, I think, you know, you were saying there about the steady cam and all of that, and given the actor some time, because he's only getting a quick moment, but he gets his moment, I remember that getting a hell of a laugh in the cinema. Probably the biggest laugh beyond the ball line. That's Jonathan Frakes as an actor's director, knowing he needs to give that actor his moment. Yeah. And it's, there is a lot of laughs in this. For all that, it's, you know, we're talking about building tension you know, it's we'll have some really, you know, powerful character moments with Picard later on in the little ships. You know, there's a lot of like tension between data and the queen but there's a lot of laughs as well. It's the full package for me, you know. It's so well judged, doesn't it? Compared to generations and all that shit with data's emotion ship which was so bad. So awful. Not funny at all. Dreadful. It made him into a prick. Oh, now he's Marina's absolute best scene. And watch Jonathan's reaction when he realises she's drunk because he really is enjoying himself. Like he thinks it's hilarious. It's wonderful. It's so great. Can I just say, though, like, like, now, I'm not going to shit all over this thing because I do think it's very funny. However, this was the point halfway through this scene where Marina Service is doing her drunk acting where Mark got up and said, I'm out. I went upstairs to have a shower. I said what? He went, that is the worst drunk acting I've ever seen. I walked off. I base my behaviour when drunk on this scene. I when I get drunk. your behaviour usually on this scene. What are you talking about? But I like Marina, that's how I, that's what I'm like when I'm drunk. Frasier, are you like Marina when you're drunk? Look at Jonathan. It's so crazy. The whiskey, like the whiskey is shit again, you know, like all of that stuff is tricky out of jars because of course they are. And it's like it's really terrible. It's when she holds off. She nearly falls off her chair saying, don't turn the music off. Frasier, are you a marina when you're drunk? I'm very much a James Cornwell. Yeah, I can believe it, actually. Oh, there's no time to argue about time. We don't have the time. Well, she's Diana Troy. She moves her hair like with a little bit of dignity, even though she's like massively drunk. But she was in. She was in man of the people. They could only get her to behave like this for space reasons in the actual show. Now they just get appissed, you know, it's really fun. Every now and again, they gave her a line. Like then, and the price when she went, oh, I wouldn't want to miss the wormhole. It should have been like this. If she'd have been like this all the way through, it would have been gold. Just Frank cells and it's wonderful. The way she tries to carry herself with deportment, but can't quite start. It's like me when I try and be a professional. This is what I look like, yeah. It's not just me. It's freaks as well with this, the pair of the modest bouncing off each other. He is, you know, perfectly playing the straight man here. You know what's great? What is great is Marina and Jonathan Frakes, right? I have had 7 years. They're a relationship as friends, which means in these movies It's one of the best things about all 4 of the Next Generation movies is the Riker Troy stuff. It just is so great. And then you jump over the Kertzman trek and the rewards of their friendship on the screen in that relationship. It's astonishingly good. I have to see that beat there where she falls unconscious. in Rika just at the same time, it's so the comedy timing is so perfect between the service. It's so well directed by the man that's actually stolen in it. Yeah. So the music here? Fraser? Oh, yes. The music in this scene is incredibly good. I can't remember it because I want to do a little hum. I don't think so, but it's very distinctive. A carpet. Now, that's the other thing that I notice is that even though, even though the galaxy class ship has been destroyed last, this is funny too. Um, um, has been destroyed last film, uh, there is a lot of carpet still, and so the red carpet there, and quite close up, it's just that disgusting industrial carpet that is on all of the Starfleet ships in the north. Did you miss the line? Did you not miss the line at the start? We built the new Enterprise, $40000000 and carpet. You did remember to install carpet, right? Because they make a joke about it in Picard series 3, remember? Like they laugh at the fact that there's carpet all over the ship. This is now, we're in my favourite part of the movie now, now because we're doing Borg attacks enterprise. No, we're doing die hard. Joe, this is where they fix the emotion chip. So where he says I'm feeling anxious and Picard says, I think you should turn your emotion chip off and then he does. cheap in a head tilt. Like, and there's a sound effect. Like, I think that's hilarious. Like they make it slightly stupid. And then they use the emotion chip to up the stakes in the scene with the Borg queen to make him scared and he tones it down a bit. You know, he's not doing the sort of obnoxious shit that he was doing in the last film. And him scared with the ball queen is actually really good. And there's one line that I think he delivers, it's really laugh out loud funny as well. Is it the multiple techniques? No, no, it's the one where he says I'm not scared, you know, or something like that. And he's like, he's absolutely breaking it. It's really good. Oh, POV shot slurk. Oh, no, we'll go house the 1st proper look at the Borg, no. The makeup is great, isn't it? Oh, you are right. They are glistening. Yeah, they're like the aliens. Like, remember how the alien looks at the very end of Alien. You know, it's a bloke in a suit. They look like that. They shouldn't have done the shop from behind. I know. still got padded arses. Look. Yeah, no, they looked good. It's the makeup as well. It's sort of that mottling of the skin, you know, it's it's all just sort of like, you know, that will slap a bit of gray face paint onion in the series and all going to add texture. we're going to add detail. We're going to have more than just human book as well. There's like Klingon bork, isn't there? See, I think I think that the original white makeup was designed to kind of deracialize them, like to remove their identities. Do you know what I mean? Like everyone is is this sort of like porcelain white colour. And so everyone's identity's been removed. But now they've decided it's because they're zombies. Do you know what I mean? So it's more... The greer pollar. Yeah, necrotic. Exactly. Actually, you are right. It is die hard with zombies, isn't it? I mean, that's a great pitch. Who wouldn't want to watch that movie? But you're right, Fraser. Like they've just got the time to get all the details with the makeup, just perfect. You know, as a production, you can't fault it. It's really good. It's a great look for Wolf as well, cutting his hair back, you know. You remember how big his hair gore come series 7 of the next generation? It was ridiculous. He had a buffon body end. It was a proper page boy, wasn't it? Did you say page boy car? Yeah, it is. It's a bomb. It was, it was. He had a type back by the end of next generation, though, didn't he? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think his DS9 looks the best. Oh it's basically this, isn't it? With the gray uniform and the short hair. It just looks cool. I love as well how it's like a brand new ship and Picard tries to pull the handle on the door and it snaps off. Does somebody try and activate the self-destruct sequence in this? Yes. Yes. Yeah, when they get a new ship, that's usually the 1st name. They do do it. And there's even a line of dialogue saying, you know, we barely knew this ship. And like, part of the problem is I think you know that they're not going to destroy this ship after doing it last. last time. And I'm not quite sure why they did it last time. I think it was just a restart. You know what, just to say, well, yeah, they wanted a new set. Oh, no, that was our favourite part of the movie. Don't take that bit. Where Troy's there, sort of crashing the ship. It was amazing. Shuddering. Oh, they did at least they didn't say women drivers, eh? No, that's true. So, and this too, like the tubules, the injection tubules, which have now been added, which I think are really great. In production tones, one thing I do want to say, though, is obviously, this is expensive. I've said it a few times. As we go on, even in Voyager, they learn how to do that special effect on a TV budget. In Kurtzman Trek, now, you had scenes of the Ball Queen in series 2 of Picard, like crawling around with her non-body snake part trailing around behind, like production came on so much that we can do movie special effects in television, like so quickly after this. Yeah, it's there is a trade-off though, isn't there? Because, you know, you get 22 episodes in a next generation series you get 8 of Picard. So, yeah, that that's a trade-off basically is. I'd rather have more time with them, Fraser, and a few shitty episodes. Yeah, I'd rather have, you know, you know, like, you know, DS9, you get a really solid standing set that's got 2 levels. Um, you know, lots of areas for you to go into and use that more than just CGI and, but, you know, it's the way television's made. It's HD, so you've got to, you've got to have everything spot on. When you mentioned TS9, then I instantly relaxed. Thank you. Now, can we please talk about these things with data and the ball queen? Because I think some of them are very good, but I just don't like the kink. I really don't want to think about paying. getting turned on that's a huge problem. So because I think that she's sexy as hell. Like, even though, like, and that's the thing. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And because part of the thing, because sex, like lust and disgust uh, very close to one another. Do you know what I mean? No, in my bedroom, they're not. But, but and so I really like the fact that she's hovering on the border of that. you know what I mean? She's a scary monster. She's got the big head, like a like a xenomorph alien, but she's really sexy, she's got the sexy voice, she's properly seductive. She, it's a really, really good. She also... mottled gray. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. weird alien tubes coming out of her heads. That's, yeah, that's just you being racist, I think, is... Against ball. Happily in this particular occasion. Fraser, does the sport queen turn you on? I can't believe I'm asking you this question, but here we are position, isn't it? You know, you have a very sexual character in a very revealing costume, figure hugging, low cut, um, but quite obviously some sort of half dead lizard thing, um, it's, it's really interesting um, the way that the, the goal was interesting. interesting. Is that yes or no? It's... It's a yesando. Yes, yes, yes. I think it's a yes, absolutely. She's sexy as hell. Yeah, because you have that sort of, you know, that reaction to the female figure, but then you have the sort of more conscious reaction to the fact that she is a corpse and above all else, she's the villain of the piece as well. So you should be singing boo his boo, but you know, actually going oh, ding dong. I never once considered until this conversation that the ball queen is in any way sexy. But she's playing it like that. And it's Alice Crazy. And she's saying these lines. But isn't she? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, I shall bow to your... your taste in these particular occasion. I know what you both came for Christmas now. Just a big tub of KY. That's right. Deaf makeup, you know? So this is great, isn't it? This is because they just tell him what's going to happen. Because all of that, that thing where, you know, he explained the mission to, um, to Cochrane, and he goes, hot damn, you're heroic which I just think is absolutely right. So great. Isn't it wonderful though? He's a bit of a dick as well. Like he's a good bloke. but he's a dick. But this, like, we've never heard this story before. We didn't know when 1st contact was. We knew when the Federation gets founded. We didn't even know who 1st contact was with. Do you remember when that ship opens and you go, yes, of course it had to be the Falcons. Obviously, it was the Vulcans, but we didn't know. And so that's a big part of the law. You know, Star Trek, the Next Generation, filled in the law, all that stuff about the 21st century and the 3rd world war and all of that sort of stuff that gets mentioned in, in, um, encounter at Farpoint and stuff. So, you know, and it sets a particular date, which is not what we have in original track. And that's a big hole in the timeline, and they fill it in, but it's the most important hole. And there's a way in which it, you know, Earth becomes, um, uh, you know, this socialist paradise for space reasons. You know, they realise that they're not alone in the universe. It's not a question of, you know, material, social progress. It's not, you know, our politics get improved. We learn to love one another. We learn to care about one another, all of that sort of thing. But still, do you know what I mean? The reason that earth becomes the paradise that it becomes is because we realise how small we are, that we're all sharing the same planet. I think it's great. I think it's really good. stops it from being too, you know, I can't bear this twee optimism. What stops it from being too twee is he's a prick. And that's wonderful. really love that. And the other thing that stops it is that Picard is a prick. And like, Picard, it shows Lily around. And, you know, these things are amazing, aren't they? Prosthetics? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or the eye thing and all of that. Like, it's really horrible. The arm with the hand missing. Really? Yeah. It's doing what you can't do on the series and really lean into the sort of the body. Yeah. Yes, there's only a couple of lights, yeah, the rest are OCG'd in. Right, so have you seen Genesis lately? They did to quite good body horror in that one, you know? They thought was very impressed. impressed They turned Ridge Barkley into a spider. and Troy into an amphibian. So good. They should have kept her that way. Oh, sorry. We've got Lieutenant Hawk here. who just gets a few lines and there was some talk, I think, in the lead up to it because people were starting to be critical about how little queer representation there was in Star Trek. Uh, and clearly, you know, it was not something that, um, uh Berman and Braga were interested in at all, but there was some talk that Hawk was going to be gay, but they had no way of knowing how to write that or. Who's the actually? I know him. I don't know his name's Neil McDonald. Yeah, he's in, um, Captain America. He's in the 1st Captain America film. He's the big guy with the touch. That's the one of the home commanders. He has the look of a Captain America character, doesn't he? He popped up as the villain in one of the series of arrow. So he's... He had some work. Yeah, he's got quite quite a hefty IMDb. Look at him. Of course he's had some work. He's really pretty, isn't he? And that's why we kind of thought he's gay because he has that kind of look. This is great, isn't it? These though, but this is just the scene from who watches the watchers. Yes. Showing the planet from all this. So we're still doing stuff we did in the episodes. Yeah, yeah. That will be more a problem in the next film. They can't get out of that mindset. just can't quite do it. And it's a bigger problem in an insurrection, I think, which is absolutely a two-part next generation episode. And then Nemesis again is a sort of really bad series 7, two-part next generation episode. Let me ask you this then. If this is the film for the not we, if this is the relaunch of the franchise to say we're going to continue doing these movies, but you know, we can't just rely on the fans, we need to kind of reboot, relaunch, reintroduce a new next generation, as it were, of people to this film franchise. Does it not make sense then to be kind of going back over some of your more successful beats from the series and say, well, we'll do it again, but we're going to do it again? Maybe in the 1st one. No, the 1st one's a failure. The 1st one's a failure and this is a redo. We just missed Lily's Incredible. It's my 1st ray gun line, which I think is absolutely superb. But like this, I mean, obviously the scale of this is bigger and it's more important because the other thing, if it's relaunching the show for the not way for just normal people, we have the backstory about what happened to Earth when 1st contact happened explained both to Lily and to Cochrane by different people in the cast at the same time. So the premise is being explained, and it's the premise that's at stake. You know, even, and it does the other thing too, I think, which is it points out how kind of slightly weird in 24th century our characters are by contrasting them with characters closer to our time. And, you know, that's why Star Trek 4 is so brilliant. You know, that's why Picard series 2 is so brilliant. It's the right thing to do as well. That is an absurdly good visual. Incredibly good. Coming in with her little worm tail coming out of her body. It's a spot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To answer your question, Fraser, is yes, they, I do think it is an absolute deliberate move that they are looking at the successes of Next Generation and saying, let's do a bit of that. But I don't know, like, it is a movie, Go to Earth. literally tear people out of their homes, have them being turned into Borg. Just do it in a different way to walking around the spaceship with Borks because we do that all the time. Yeah. We don't actually do that all the time, though, at this point, do we? Well, we do it in Voyager. You know, that's the future. that's right They're hardly in it in next year. I mean, do you remember that terrible yellow lighting in Voyager? when they did that ball? Collective. Remember that? It was just so bad. Lighting is not expensive. Could they not have looked at this movie? That's right. Just get green gels instead of the yellow ones. They cost the same. It's it gets the point in Voyager. doesn't know where it's going like, oh, what ship should this new Borg ship? Well, we're not done yet. We've done the Borg pyramid? Yeah, we'll go with that. Oh, did they do a pyramid? I remember that one. I think we're up to door deckahedron now. Well, well... By the time we've got to endgame, Fraser. They did the Borg cities. You remember that massive city? The city of the Borg? Whatever. Crazy. I'm sorry. I don't know how you people can consider that sexy. It's his own face that you see when she breathes on his skin and he just does this. Wow. You know, like he's going to have to change his pants. Like it's, it's a real proper thing. If the line between disgust and being turned on is very thin yeah. That's you and me on this call. I'm disgusted and you're turned on. I think a lot of it's Alice Krieg as well because she is vamping this up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. killing it. She's so good. And it's not what, you know, what they do in Picard series too. Like that. Look at the lips. Like, look at that shot with that, like, that is, then his reaction. And like Star Trek is so sexless. Like, it's so like, you know, when it's not horny, raspberry. It's not a fair option. You know, watching a corpse come onto a robot is not the better option. Well, she's not dead. It's consensual. She's got an enormous brain, like those aliens in the 1st episode of the original Trek. Yeah, smart is sexy. covered in veins. No, she's got that big head, I think, because that's what the aliens have in alien, you know, like they have that big elongated head, and I think that heaps of the design features are from that. Like when we go into the corridors and the corridors are covered in in tubes and stuff like that, that's like when we go into the thing in aliens, remember, and the colonies is like that as well. I think it's, we underestimate how important aliens is for the design cues here. I'm going to say is, whilst I was eating my breakfast this morning watching Borg Android foreplay was not on the menu, all right? You've just missed the lane. Such a prude. You've just missed your lane. Lily's just, you know, laid it on a play for you. How much did this cost? How much did this cost? $40 million. It is old though, right? Because when they turn the lights down, it all looks a bit cheaper they did it in the next generation. Oh, but more atmospheric and I'd go. She's so great, though. She's so engaging. Yeah. She, it's, it's so clever to, to, to have this character in here is the sort of audience identification figure, again, if you are new to this, to have someone that does need everything explaining someone that is reacting in all these ways and, and it's, it's the companion to Picard's doctor, basically. Yeah. Well, and she does the job of being his moral centre as well. Like, he's going around here explaining that the people of his time are morally superior to the people of the 21st century and he's wrong about that or at least in himself, you know, like, and she's... He's clearly dead at this point then, isn't he? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, like, it's just Picard being a nutcase here. And, you know, everyone else thinks that we should be leaving, even wharf, you know. But you know what else she is? Such a savvy move, like you said, Fraser, because this is the ultimate film for a not we to watch, right? And that is the not we character in the film that Picard can explain all this bullshit to throughout the entire movie. It's a really clever move and she's just a great actress. When she gets angry. Now that's hot. That is really hot. Yeah, that seems incredible, I think. Star Trek usually blows scenes like that. He's Ethan, bless him. Oh, God. He's like, thank God, I can breathe. He's not credited, actually, in the film. It's a nice one. I love this doing the Dixon Hill thing. That's another little kiss in the past, isn't it? But it's just a nice aesthetic as well. It's so incongruous when the ball come in. It's a nice little nod again, isn't it? Oh, the hollow suite. We just have a quick little scene in the hollow, so we just... But think about how they fucked up the hollow suite in generations where suddenly at 78 years later and we're on a sailing boat and everyone's in these sort of, you know, like historical costumes and stuff like that. And my father tried to watch it because, you know, he knew that I was into it and he thought, oh, generations, I'll watch that. That's the thing Nathan likes. And it was just like, what the fuck is even happening here? You know, because, because how are you to read that in a room? Do you know what I mean? Like we sit and we go, oh, it's the holodeck on a movie budget. That's amazing, but it's absolutely incomprehensible to anyone who's watched. You know, when Fingabob got pushed off the plank. Who was it? Dr. Beverly? Dr. Bively? Yep, yeah. That was that was how early Mark walked out of that film. No, I'm out. Sorry, that's not funny. Like, I think that's kind of terrible. And here we see him program the thing he explains to Lily what's going on. We understand, you know, what this is. We see them walk into the holodeck. And so you can do it because it's another thing. It's a Star Trek the Next Generation film. It should have the holodeck. They should go deeper though, right? I know they're doing Dixon Hill, but they should have gone, my God we're in the royale from series 2. No, it's not a lower decks episode. Lily gets to hit the guy. That's pretty awesome. It's great, isn't it? With the Borg slowly advancing through the thing. Tommy Gum. Oh my word. So is that that's why he goes into the holodeck, isn't it? Because he can generate a holographic machine gun and the borg of adapting to the space. Yeah, they've adapted to everyone's space guns. I mean, I think they went into the holodeck just so they could have the ball crashing a pier at pie. No, yeah, yeah. Is that as well? It's an except-y sport. This is great, isn't it? Like, he's got his hands in the chest cavity and instead of pulling stuff around, like, he's mental and look at her looking at him. Like, what we were doing, we're setting it up with seed and, you know, Picard's PTSD, basically. Yeah, yeah. know how the effect it's had on them. Did you see in his chest there? There was a cut and there were sort of marrowbone jelly and all sorts in there. Patrick Coach, use a stunt hand. I'm not putting my hand in there I love that too, when he says this was Ensign Lynch. And she just looks at him and says, tough luck, huh? Like, it's so good. She's so good. She's sort of a realist, isn't she? No, no, like she is commenting on his weird behaviour around that around his absolutely failure to respond in any way to that death you know? Oh, he's fucked off. Yes, this is so good. Another little kiss. Like, that's fine because this character could be anyone, but why shouldn't it be that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you a fan of Barbie Fraser? Oh, you've got to love Bargley, haven't you? I mean, Dwight Schultz, he's he was a legend going into Next Generation and yeah, he's... He's fantastic. Yeah. Although, I've got to say, like the Borg, Barclay is something due to overexposure, that Voyager did in fact ruin, unfortunately. I actually like having Barkley and Marina at the end of... a good episode, Parfinder, and then they did it again, and then they did it again, and then they did it in the last episode and by that point, he's just a parody of himself. I think this is really great. Like this whole thing too. Look at, look at the leather, finally smiling at him and things. One thing we didn't talk about is how beautiful, like we've decided that we're not going to do the, the, um, visor anymore. And like we don't get Lavar's beautiful dark eyes, but we get his face back and he just, you know, he looks great. Like, I think that's a great look. It does make you wonder why we did that for 7 years when he has that face. I know, I know. Baffling. It's a good representation, I think, you know, to have a character with a disability, uh, be in the future and, you know, to not just kind of airbusher because I think that does kind of happen a little bit in this and it happens a little bit. Obviously, it happens a lot more coming up in insurrection. They were going to do it, weren't they? DS 9. They were going to have, you know, the Melora character, the Daphne Ashburn character that flies about the place and can't walk. They were gonna, and then they realised they didn't have the budget to have her flying around every episode. So they went, all right, well, we won't do that. So I spoke to that as a low budget way of doing a disability, isn't it, by putting the visor on? And obviously now what you do is you have a blind actor, um, like we did. But the eyes are like one of the greatest weapons. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, and he is a beautiful man. I mean, he still absolutely nails that performance for 7 years without us being able to see his eyes. This is so funny. The way this scene ends, which I just think is absolutely brilliant. which is... I've got to take a leak. Yeah, no, so he goes, he disappears and he's going to leg it. And then, and then, um, Riker's forced to stun him and drop him on the ground, and then he just turns to Jordan and says, you told him about the stats. And of course... We have done. the episode of Lower decks. Remember? Series three, episode one grounded, where we actually come back to this location and we see the statue. So we have actually seen the statue in Lardex and the amusement park. I did say that they got the banter right there, but having to explain the leak joke. Yeah, that is, that's your next generation humour there. That is a bit much. But again, it is that thing that this show does, which is, that this film does is making reminding us that the 24th century characters are a little bit stiff and weird. Yeah. I've just noticed something there. They go on the bridge and at least just sits down in his chair straight away, straight in the captain's chair. Have you seen her? Of course she's in charge. This is a nice chair. This is the best one, aren't you? is her bitch in this movie. Let's not forget that. It's not what you do. It'd be the 1st chair I'd go for, the one in the middle. So we're setting up this stun sequence and again, in 7 years of Star Trek, the Next Generation, does anyone put a spacesuit on? No, I don't think so. But then, of course, after this, they've got the suits. So they start doing it. We saw it in Npop Noor, didn't we? They were using those seats. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it always does it quite a bit as well. There's one with the Species 8472 where they're in on the outside of Voyager doing sort of this scene, but low budget. Yeah. Yeah, but remember the 1st episode of Discovery, this, where Geordie sees a figure, you can barely see that it's Cromwell except that he then raises the hip flask to his lips and drinks. That's how we know it's him. I mean, they look great, and this is a pretty great action sequence, it is sort of slow and stuff, and, and like the idea of giving warf the nausea about, about being in space is pretty great too. Like that's a typical, uh, sort of undermining wharf by making him the sort of slightly pathetic one, which is just awesome. In the high budget episode's favour, I think this is the point where I think this feels like a movie, because walking on the outside of the salsa is not something we can do in your Star Trek episode. You couldn't do this scene. No. I only would know how much money they had to spend on this film. We're just a fine. But you look into it, please. They might say on Wikipedia. Look at that. Look at them walking upside down. Now, you're normally complaining about Frakes having the camera upside down. But the whole conversation, remember, is about how disorienting this is. And when Wharf's told to look at the hull, then we get a shot which is their point of view as they walk along the hull. So I think that's pretty good. Excuse me, there is a difference between a scripted scene where they are supposed to be upside down and just a scene of exposition where Jonathan Frakes decides in Kurtzman Trek to put the camera upside down for no reason. There is no upside down in space, gentlemen. That's the threat. that's a good point. It's all relativist. Oh, no, we're going back to this kinky Android sex again. Yeah, yeah. It's an important part of the story. the sort of the last temptation of data. I think too, it's probably this scene which has his funniest line like his best line of the film, I think. I think my problem is I don't really like later in the movies. I think he's lost his innocence from the TV show and he's just a bit knowing, a bit sarky. They're doing weird things with him that just don't feel right to me. He is Pinocchio in the series. He's so good. The X-com episode we watched. He was just so cute. He's like a child. He's not a child anymore. He's like, doing sex with a lady. It's very old. It's very old. And I don't think that's where Brent said his best ivory. certainly wasn't in generations. No, he's terrible in generations. That was absolutely misconceived, and you can see them walking back. But I think he's good here, where he is actually kind of confronting her, you know, and showing some emotion without kind of doing his usual law overacting, you know, like normally it's like he's indistinguishable from law when that sort of stuff happens. Trouble is, you know, this is the one time Voyager gets it better. The servant of 9 against the ball queen. It's just something else, you know? 2 women going up against each other. Battle Baulks. Yeah, yeah. What about Agnes Girati with, you know, stuff I stole from Sheeto Stole from the Borg queen.text. Do you know what I never thought? This is a zombie movie, Fraser. Now all I can see is a zombie movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There you go. There, your sexy zombie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Someone passed me the KY. Oh, Christ. Why is it's, I mean, it's, it's this character beat, isn't it? It's what they're doing with data ads trying to explore this side of them and, you know, this, you know, is he co-uptible? Is he? Can he be tempted? Can he be, you know, I mean, obviously he's programmed, doesn't he? But, you know, can that be co-upted? We did do that in descent part one and 2 though, you know? Part two, which was terrible. Like it was done very badly. And here we're not forced to, like, we suspect that he's gone over to her side at some point, but and then, you know, it's deflected when those 3 quantum torpedoes miss the Phoenix. Remember that? And then you realise, oh, he's just deliberately blown that because he's been on our side all along. So it's this scene here where he's super nervous about her advancing on him about to have sex. And when she says, uh, like, how long has it been, uh, like, I fully functional, which he says, embarrassed. And then, like, that, which is just line from the naked now, isn't it? Like that's just dialogue from the naked now. How long has it been since you've used them? And when he does the usual trick of saying the duration down to the nearest second? The thing that normally he's told to shut up about, that's so perfect because it just makes it seem like he's been gagging for it for like 8 years or whatever, he knows down to the 2nd. That is so unpleasant. I can see her skull being pulled back by the wires. I mean, please. You and Kira snogging Odo the other day with his burn victim face. Yeah, I didn't say it was hot. I said the rubber latest ripped off. That was not hot. The neposis. That was horrible. quite the most horrific thing in the whole movie. So good. Yeah, I think this is great, isn't it? He is very slow. And again, it's all told without dialogue, which is a refreshing change. Here we go. And I do like, you're cutting back from the ship to the location like that's something you wouldn't really do too much in, you know I mean, like, the way we go from location to shipboard scenes, it feels like it's got scale. Yeah. Yeah, and you wonder, you know, like it makes it, like you could say that it makes it all a bit less oppressive or something like that, you know, like it makes the Borg stuff a little bit less claustrophobic because now we're outdoors. But I think that's a good thing. Do you know what I mean? Like, this isn't a horror film. This is an alien. It is still Star Trek. This is so great. Good fall there from whoever that was. Wait, the huzzy sweeper... What was that, Frozen? He's like a sweet bro and always like, oh, no one got time for this. It's so good. You told him about the statue. So great. Such a good line. It was a handy puddle there just to make it more dramatic as well. I mean, they've built this enormous source of set. got to use it. Yeah, yeah. That's good. That would all be done on the wall now, wouldn't it? Oh no, because they're walking on it, you know, like they might do the... I mean, some of that stuff's mattered in. Do you know what I mean? Like the floor is built, though. I do miss like, you know, now things have gone CGI. I do miss when money started coming in later in the night and they were doing big sets in movies and things like this. Now they just do a lot of CGI. Whereas there is a scale to a physical, a physical set that I really like. Well, I think that's what we've got here. Like I think they're putting, you know, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, this is very Star Trek, the next generation, isn't it? It's like we're turning things and we're pressing buttons and we're turning panels around and all of that. I think we move some isolinear chips from one slot to another and stuff. They weren't doing that, Star Trek 6, you know. They were on amazing hoff ice planets, you know? Oh, we were watching now. Yeah, I know. I mean, there's not much going on. It's not, but there's a tension behind it because it is quite slow and, you know, you, we know what's happening. The 3 of them have got to turn the panels on for the, blast the, um deflect audition to space. So there's that just tension around, you know, or they're going to do it before the Borg, get them and then obviously... I'm sure your music's doing a lot of the work, Fraser, as well. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure. I mean, did you say the way that Borg got shot and then flew across the saucer set in a way that he could only be on a wire. Oh, there's a lot of fabulous wirework all the way through this scene. No, but now now it would be CGI in a way that he didn't look like he was on a wire. No, the lesson wire stuff coming. Like both Hawk and when I think Picard leaps over the leaps over the dish as well. There's a series of like hot Borg men now advancing on them as well. Can I say? Yeah. But these are like handsome young man. you look at them? Like it's a whole thing. I don't know why quite what's going on there, but we've mottled flesh. Yeah, yeah, it's makeup. Look, he's pretty, look, that guy's pretty. Look, he's looking at him really like, what the hell are you doing? I have never been more disturbed doing one of these commentaries. What would you do with a book? I don't know. See, I don't know. See, look that guy's like, whee. There goes. It's like the moon base all over again. What would you do with it? What would you do with the Borg? I suppose it depends what touchment it comes with. that's exactly right. Are you thinking about Red Wolf, Fraser? He's brought his knife. Oh, he's cut the guy's hand off. Ooh, ow, that really was quite nice. Oh, yeah. Space suit now. Oh, blood. Oh, that's very Star Trek 6, isn't it? The CGI blood. Yeah, you're G blood. Better than Star Trek. Yeah. I mean, look at this shitty technology they're building. It's so next generation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But also the low resolution graphics on the screen and everything. Like it's, they're not a retina display or anything, is it? It's still 96 you know. Yeah, yeah. There's your Clinon Borg. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, poor Hulk's gonna go. off he goes. Oh, no. Hang on. Is he turned into a Borg? can't remember. Oh, yes. Or is it just thrown off the ship? No, I don't think yet, sure enough. I think he gets he gets tubuled by someone. I've only watched this this morning. am I asking questions? There's a lot going on, that's all. Does someone set the self-destruct at some point, EB? Sorry, Fraser, you know, man, I don't really pay attention. It's fine. It's not just the entire last 3rd of the film or anything, I guess. To be fair, it's silent, self-destruct, so we don't have the lady. We don't have Magell telling us how many minutes we have left to live. outrageous. After all these kisses to the past. They didn't bring him, Mitchell. No, I mean, but Chelsea, isn't it, isn't she? is the computer. Look at him gracefully going across that set there flying away. Gutty, scurvy wires. You can imagine I'll just fucking... I played Hamlet at the Queen Vic, you know? That's it. I think I missed a trick, you know? I missed a trick. You could have done this set as a roy in Hollywood, couldn't it, in a paramount backlot? And just you get a Kirby wire and fly across, pretend you're being attacked by a ball walk. Yeah. I worry about how he holds that, why he doesn't go put his hand in upright. rather than upside down and then turn it. That seems wrong to me. You know what? You're right. This is long, isn't it? This is quite long, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Oh, there we go. And we remember what's at stake? Like they're sending a message to tell the Borg to come and get Earth now. He's missing a trick visually, I think, as well, because we are shooting just on this set. We're not doing a pullback shot of them on the Enterprise. You know what I mean? seeing it as a whole. Whereas I think you could do a bit more of that. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Does it look hotter? Now he's a Borg. That wonderful thing where he turns, he turns the helmet and then his face. So you see him turn towards Picard, then turn his face to show that he's bulk. But there he is. Of course, a pump show in space is nothing to that man, just tired. No, he just severed them around your leg. hand and they ties it on. You've got to have us lying round. pretty good. No wonder you love Wolf so much, Fraser. He's just so cool. And I think we'll get one of the simultaneously one of the best and one of the worst lanes in the film coming up any minute. Oh, yeah. Wharf's about to deliver it. Can you deliver it for us, please? He's being an action hero. Here he goes. Assimilate this. Oh, terrible. It's so good. Just cracking a jewel. I'm asking you both a question. I should know about this movie. I'm a bit curious because obviously compared to a normal next generation episode, this is looks absolutely incredible. Compared to other science fiction movies in 1996. I don't know what was coming out at the time. Is this really amazing? Well, what Star Wars episode one is 3 years after this? Um, and obviously it looks amazing. much more money than much more money and much more computer generated stuff as well, like too much computer generated. I just want to know if sort of science fiction fans, not Star Trek fans would have had the patience for that sequence, even though there was some cool stuff going on. Maybe. I think so. Yeah, it was slow, but I think it's probably slow about our standards more than anything else. Poor old Corcoran. I mean, it's slow, but curse, but standards, you know, the action's furious over there. I can't figure out what's going on. Stargate. Stargate was 94. It was 2 years before this. It looks better than Stargate, doesn't it? I mean, Stargate's not that effective. I mean, the Stargate itself is. But once you get through the Stargate, it's more just like ancient aliens. Yeah, yeah. And the complete opposite of this, of course. That's a movie that spawned a TV show. This is a TV show that spawned a movie. Yeah. Yeah. I think the regular audience will be more on board with this stuff when the shuttle's going up and the rock music starts playing and all of that sort of stuff, you know? It's more fun. Can I just say that rock music is so shit. And like there's... They have not licensed anything. Do you know what I mean? Like, what is it? Like, and the dooby, dooby, dooby, dooby-doo music at the very end. Like, I see why you have rock music because again, it is part of that sort of pointing up the difference between people now contemporary people and 24th century people. You know, we had Picard listening to Berlioz earlier in his room. And so that's one of the things that these films do. And there's always that sort of fish out of water thing, you know the more that, um, that Cromwell's making people dance and drink tequila and stuff like that, the more kind of upset or sort of put out everyone else is. But gee whiz, they don't choose any good music, do they? Don't be a good man, just be a man and let history make the judgements. That's good advice. Although I have to say, you're both great men. I love the episode of South Park, that takes the piss out of that. Oh what is it? It's, yeah, it's, it's something like, um, the... It's like the devil and Jesus getting organise a boxing fight or something. You know, they're going to have like a boxing match to decide who gets the earth and Jesus is bottling it, basically, so one of the one of the little kids stand up, Eric, or someone, you know, gives does that line, you know, and say, does it in fun and he's like who said that? You did. You know, and he goes off and say, did he really say that? He's like, no, of course not, with Star Trek. I mean, like take the Mickey out of this film wonderfully in Deep Space 9, in the scene coming up in a minute, because Quark, has enough of the Frankie society changing and goes, the line must be drawn here. This bar, don't matter. Oh, this bit, yeah. Worf and Picard. This is stunningly good. It's really good, isn't it? It's actually the sort of scene you wouldn't have had. No, next year. It's not too often anyway. This is where you're not. This is not what you'll get on television. This is proper movie level. you know character work. Except I think that Picard comes across as maybe more petty than he should. Do you know what I mean? Like it, like, yeah, like his character is degenerating and, you know, we see him being nasty to wharf and stuff like that. But it seems just a little bit too petty, I think. I mean, it's wonderful seeing the 2 of them go at it together, you know. I think, I think the whole scene's really well played because you've got sort of like dynamics with the crew, the crew that's left on the ship is, you know, Wharf and Beverly and Wharf's prepared to stand up when Beverly's like, nope, the captain's made his mind up, once the captain's made his mind up, and so it takes this character of Liddy to go in there and say, bullshit. Oh, wonderful. Wonderful. We needed someone like her on the Enterprise, the whole series. That, you know, and again, it's kind of like the benefit of having this, not just for the audience, but for the plot itself that you'd have someone that is, you know, goes in, doesn't realise that's the captain's chair or anything. There's no pump or circumstance whatsoever. It's just like this man is gone batshit. He's gone too far. He has crossed the lane, so I am now going to do something about it. And in she goes and tears them in your arse, and it's just fantastic. Imagine her in those early TNG episodes. symbiosis, for example. She could just walk into his ready room and go, you're going to do what? Leave that entire planet of drug withdrawing people. Bullshit, Jean-Luc. You know? You would have been great. Well, we do fix that in lower decks, remember? We fix it in discovery with Giorjo. She often points out that... But this is really good. And what I really like is that the, it's the Moby Dick reference which I think is really, really good. Um, yeah, see what she says bullshit too? She says he says in my century we don't do revenge and she just goes, you know, bullshit. I've seen you. You know, I saw what was happening. I've watched the Raff of Khan, all right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, what? You kill him? Yeah, it's really good. She's so good. It's so great. She doesn't give him an inch, does she? She doesn't flinch or anything. He comes right for her. And you think she's up against Patrick Stewart. And I mean, this sort of scene shows you what an absolute feigned Patrick Stewart was to get onto this shore to get to the point where we're in this film and we've got them doing some proper theatrical work now. He is absolutely going for it, but she is toe to toe with them. She's absolutely good. She's so how he goes. They would have ever imagined he would have been able to do this after those 1st 2 seasons of TNG. Thank God he stuck around. You know, Fraser, he didn't unpack his suitcase for 2 years before he was coming back to India. saying that. So the thing I like about the Moby Dick reference is, remember he she says sort of, you know, Captain Ahab, she calls him Captain Ahab, and he goes, what? And she says, oh, you don't have books in the future, which I think is actually a great thing to say to Picard. And then when it hits, like when it actually hits, he quotes from Moby Dick, because of course he's Picard and he's read it, and it's a beautifully well chosen, um, quote, about the rage that Ahab feels as he's attacking the, the, you know, the whale, exactly the rage that he was showing with the, with the submachine gun in in the holodeck. You know, it's so well done. And then, and then she, she admits that she's never read Roman Moby Dick because no one has, which I just think is wonderful. It's so good. I like the violence of the smashing of the glass as well, because that's what we would never do. They wouldn't destroy the set in next generation. And we broke the little ship like we broke the Enterprise D. Yeah. See you around, Ahab. It's that lane where it's, um, you know, I will make them pay for what they've done to me, basically. over yourself, Jean-Luc. And yeah, he comes with his... His chest had been a cannon, he would have shot his heart upon it. You know, that's exactly what we saw in the holodeck and he's realised. Yeah, I'd never read it. like Of course. And then he smiles, like, that's great. That's... Why didn't they keep her around for the next 2 movies? She's so good. But he wouldn't, she wouldn't have done it. But what I think is great is normally this is the sort of scene that Star Trek just fucks up, you know, like, because the actors aren't up to it, the dialogue is usually, you know, too leaden and too lacking in subtext. You know these are the scenes that just tend to not work very well. But this does. This is really good, I think. give you an example. That's an example in DS9, where I can't say the, what is it, inter armour? How do you say it, Nathan? They get it wrong. Sealant Legos, I think. I know, but CDIG just trips up on the how to say that. And then he just goes, in times of war, the laws fall silent or something. It's so terrible. It's the sort of scene that you don't get in blockbuster films, you know, vague sci-fi, blockbuster films. You just don't get them. And it's the sort of thing now. This is the sort of scene where if they put that in like a Star Wars film, you know, the fanboys were absolutely shitbricks about it. You know, we're not just fighting people, like same as, you know it's, you know, it's, we are so, I think we're so lucky to have this film with that particular scene in it that we can have something that is so entertaining, but goes on in so hard in such good character work and is performed so well by these actors. Almost the inverse of my complaint, you know, where I was saying this doesn't feel like a movie. That's Star Trek impinging on the movie now in a really positive way, you know? Just to point out to you now, Jule, what's happening is they've set the self-destruct. Oh, thank you. I don't know what. I did make a few cups of tea, so I'm wondering, I did have a lot of time. So I may have left the room at this point. left the room. the ball scene that I have just eulogised so much. You were out having a brew, you top. Possibly, yeah. There was no balls on the screen, you know? Here we go. So much for the enterprisey. Sorry, we can't blow it up. We've just built the fucking sense. End of the day, there's still plenty letters left in the alphabet. I love that line as well. love that line. There's something about the future of the franchise, you know. Yes, we've had the Enterprise G now, I think. Why was the enterprise? Don't apologise. Oh, I love this as well. It's just apologising. Yeah, yeah, Picard. I regret some of the things I said and he just goes, some. Some. It's a proper manager's apology, isn't it? This is the same writers that Rowe Enterprise series one. How is the dialogue so on point here and so terrible there. I don't understand. Yeah, I would like to think so because there's a golf. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Standing alone, they all get this moment, don't they, when they think they're going to lose the ship. No, but some of them where he remembers data, doesn't he? It's the scene where he remembers data, like he hears. He has data's voice. Because no daughter? No, so daughter, data is no fully shocked up with the ball. G, g, g, g, g. I'd forgotten that character existed. He would have come in Andy, whilst the Borg were attacking. If only someone got them to lock out the Enterprise computers or something like that, that would have been a really nifty plot device. Do you know what? We did have that wonderful scene with Marina Drunk, but she has not been in this movie now for about an hour. She was just in a bin. She had a... Literally there, but she's not been in it before that for about an hour. That's not right. Give the women something to do. Doesn't she look fabulous? Although, mind you, in insurrection, when they're going on about their boobs firm enough. Maybe we shouldn't be having them in the movie. They're going to dialogue like that. Oh my god, look. true TNG now. Rock for Schleit. Come on. Never move. Oh, but look at that. Look at that effect shot. Yeah, that is pretty great. That's pretty good. You know, that's very phallic, isn't it? It is. That's like you 2 looking at the ball queen. Sorry. Lavar's going, I thought we were done with this shit. We're doing a movie. But it's we might be saying about like, you know, Phantom Menace is coming up in a couple of years. You know, you look at this where they are actually in a set being rocked. You know, so New York, yeah. We can tell what's happening, but it looks realistic. You compare with Attack of the Clones, you know, that bit at the end where the 3 of them are on that. Oh, yeah. dinosaur thing after the thing and you know, it looks terrible. There is really something to be said about, you know, these physical sets and these physical effects. Did you see that special effects shot, then, are that opening up? I just had faith of the heart going through my head. Yes, exactly. God be. I mean, that's that's where they get it from, isn't it? Like that's where they get it. All of these physical buttons, all of these lights, all of these switches and stuff. Then when they tried to do it to the Delta Flyer, they kind of went, these panels are boring and we're just going to put switches in the Delta Flyer for no reason. It always looked really dumb and tokenistic. But they've decided, you know, that, that's what they want to go for when they do their next, their next show. So... I mean, let's not forget as well. Enterprise took the 1st contact scene and did that wonderful reversal of it. In the alternative universe episode where Zeko got from murdered. The Vulcans. Oh, it was glorious and we didn't get to say Enterprise was glorious very often. They do the music and everything. really good. They just do that scene. It's so good. You're right. This has inspired a lot, hasn't it? Like, because really, we haven't done Bork action like this before. But after this, we do it all the time. And you've got all the sets that they've built all the props, all of the new Borg costumes and stuff. So when Voyager does the book, they don't look as kind of low effort as they do in Star Trek the Next Generation. I don't think they're literally going, right, let's do this movie and we can have loads of stuff built for our TV shows. Oh, almost certainly they are. Wow. Yeah, I suppose that makes sense. They're the production team. You know, they know that they can drop a lot of money here and then have more ties it over, you know, the next, however many series of Voyager. That's why it just feels like an episode though. It's the production team. Maybe it should not have been the production team, Ryan. Yeah. That is part of the problem. It was always going to, and that's not the problem in original track. Do you know what I mean? Where the production team... Nicholas Meyer comes in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I think Moya does 2 and 6, right? doesn't he? Yes. Which are both brilliant. And four. and four. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, Picard and the ball queen now, yeah? Yeah. So, and we had that scene earlier, the sort of highest scene where they said, well, we've got to go into the thing and we've got to break one of the coolant tubes. Um, and it, we see the thing with a little emblem on it. So it's actually pointed out to us. So we actually are not surprised by the way this is resolved that is all properly set up earlier. It's Chekhov's coolant. It is... But at least it's been set up, you know? Oh, here she is. Look, your gunky sex fixer. Does she start coming on to Picard? Maybe I'll switched off at this point. I can't handle it. So, like, the Borg queen in Picard series 2 is not as oily as this. Um, and she isn't sexy. Like, she doesn't... She's funny about that. She's very funny. She's awesome. She's good. Oh, what a loss that actress was. She was so great. She's one role. Although, you know what? I will say something for Susanna Thompson, who's a bit more vacant than both of them in the role, but when she's going up against Kate Mulgrew and Jerry Ryan, those scenes are wonderful. So, I mean, she had been in it. She, you know, guessed it on plenty of Star Trek at that point. She's on episodes. Yeah, yeah. She is in a few episodes of the... She's the love interest in rejoined. We've Dax. Oh, okay. I didn't know that. Okay. Now that is a sex. Because she's in frame of mind and she's in a few things like she's done it before. Yeah, so this, where we kind of wreck Connie, where he's aware of her. He recognises her and that his job was to be her consort, and I do kind of like the twist, where it's like he's going to be a drone. He'll make an excellent drone. I think data says just to, uh, um, you know, throw him off the sand so he doesn't realise that, uh, so she doesn't realise that he's about to betray her. It's one of the unfortunate things about innovation though, isn't it? It's like, how have we never heard of this character before? The ball queen. You just think until 3 dimensional, you jewel, that's your problem. No, no, no, but like it's a good innovation and they, they, they're doing new things and that's good, but there is that lingering like ah, the best of both worlds, you know, she wasn't involved there. No, but he's kind of, he says that he's sort of aware of her. Like he recognises her. and sort of senses that she was behind things. I mean, the idea is that they're an ant colony. you know, they're you social, you know, that they're not, they're a hive, that's the term that we use. And so she's the queen, like that kind of makes sense. You know, as soon as you say a queen, then it makes perfect sense with, let you say, that hive mind of the Borg, that there would be one single person above and beyond all these drones. Is it answer is it bees? Both. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, the Borg, the queen of an ant colony of the queen of a b colony doesn't order everyone around. You know, isn't the organising principle or anything like that. And it, and it, so it, it does just work. And obviously they found that it was impossible to do this without giving the Borg an actor to be the Borg. Do you know what I mean? We need a voice. Exactly. Exactly. You do need that, don't you? Because otherwise it's just, you know, the Borg is just drones. There's nothing to really for anyone to play off. And, you know, so we've talked about the A plot and the B plot, but we do this. There's a C plot of data in the queen, you know, which adds more dimension, it fleshes it out. It gives it a bit more richness than, you know, if we didn't have this boar queen. I think it could possibly be quite flattened steel. We say that the D-plot then is Picard and Alfred Woodhouse character, because that is a running threat. Well, that's kind of the B plot, I think, isn't it, essentially what's happening on the ship? Like, you've got, you've got what, what's Riker and Geordie doing with thing, what's Picard and Alfred Woodard doing and what is Data and the Queen doing. So it's essentially 3 plots, I think. I do think they try to address the ensemble thing in the next film though. So obviously the next film is far less in scope. It's down on that planet and they do give all the regulars more to do in that film. There's more sort of character humour and more stuff. Because in it, like, you know, Beverly and Troy haven't done anything. At least they get to talk about their boobs next time. So there's that. That is true. What are their boobs firm enough? Because they're getting younger or something because of the planet remember? The, I mean, this, the problem is that Star Trek, the Next Generation is a TV show and it's not a film and, you know, like what happens is that everyone, there's a Beverly episode and then there's a Troy episode and then there's a, you know, and that's how they managed to do that. When you've got 7 main characters, you know, you end up concentrating on the, on basically Picard and data, don't you? And that's what happens in all. Oh, that's how it goes. I mean, we've had, you know, Picard and Data in generations. We get Picard and data in this one now. It's there's a lot of Picard in. The next one, not as much deal, but it's very Picard, heavy men. No, no, no. Dennis, again, it's recording, it's data. So it's, it's, it's the obvious choice because, you know, data is the more compelling character, Picard is obviously the captain. It's the obvious choice to focus on those too, but you do feel you kind of miss something by not having a film that focusses more perhaps on Riker or... You know, I mean, they're in there. There's elements in there, but if the focus, if you had like a real sort of ranker focussed one. If they made the move to have a whole movie just based on Troy and Dr. Beverly, the respects I would have for them to give them 40000000 for Troy and Beverly. But, I mean, I remember at the time feeling a little bit sad that I would never have, you know, 26 episodes of this stupid show every year and everyone would get a go that all we're going to get. We'll get these, you know, great visuals and stuff like that and some character things. Like this is still a talky Star Trek film, but there's just not time for all of the people to get a proper role. You know? worry about it. There's still DS9 on at the point. Well, you know, Voyagers on at the same time. Like there's plenty of... Enterprise is coming. Yeah, yeah. War, yes. absolutely absolutely. Look at all this look. Picard Buff hanging there with his muscles bulging, the war course exploded. I love I love this bit coming up. You know, you've got the... You know, the Queen's melting, the, um, the bald or, disco themselves to death. You've got Picard, who's, who's, Picard's got full Bruce Willis now, if we didn't know it was die hard with zombies in space, we do now because, because in his vest, he's grimy, he's sweaty, he's dirty, and there's a lovely shot coming up, which kind of like pans up his leg and he puts his feet down and his boots are absolutely immaculate. His trousers are absolutely imaginate. Yes. There is not a speck on them and it just goes up to them. And he's in charge. Of course it fruits to clean. It's just... it's just brilliant. Do you know, he does look hot in that tank top. It's pretty amazing. Hanging there, and you could see his sinews. I was like, Patrick, honestly. Yeah, yeah, we go. There it is. Those boots would pass. The energy of the warp core sort of dusted over them and gave them a shot. Yeah, just a little bit of that coolant. You could cover it with a line. I do think that making him walk through and over the dead bodies of the Borg is a choice. Do you know what I mean? Because he was sort of dismissive. Like, and just he's looking at the dead bodies and stuff. Like, there's no dialogue about it, but I think that that was the right thing to do. You know, not have it dissolve them and there's no one there. I know there's no time to do it. You know, when all that coolant was coming out, yeah. Or from the warp core. I just wish somebody could have drawn a smiley face in it at one point. Now that is alien. Look at that exoskeleton, absolutely. Or is it Terminator? Terminator? Yeah, it's terminator, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, there she goes. Not so sexy now, is she, boys? Oh, no. Paul, every time they did this, you know, they tried to show it in circuitry, but obviously it's an extra layer on Brent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It looks really bad, doesn't it? Because they have to do the thing where they have to put an extra layer on top of the other layer. It looks like it's inside his head rather than just on top of it. But yes, his head is absolutely enormous. Boss, it still looks great. Wow, yes. No, it does look okay. Yeah. It always looked a bit silly, I think. Should I what? I swear those are the bore cubicles that are on Voyager. They've noticed that as well. Yes, they are. No, no, of course they are. Yeah. Pilferers honestly. I know. They just put them in a in a big warehouse and then drag them out you know? absolutely. How many hours in the gym do you imagine Patrick did before this movie? Quite a few. I wonder how old he is. I wonder how old he is. Here, let me help you up, Data. I can flex once more on camera. Bit of sweat, look. Oh, man, Patrick, you've never looked more enticing. But now here is the real point of the story. And and we made it a thing, didn't we? So April the 5th is now 1st contact day. Um, you know, Star Wars nerds have May the 4th, uh, but we have April the 5th, and April the 5th, 2063 for a film that comes out in 1996. It's just beyond the lifespan of like kids who are watching it isn't it? You know, like in which case, Patrick Stewart is 56 years old. at this point. Yeah, he's my age. At this point. I mean, he's not as hot as you, but he's pretty hot. I don't know. You know? I'd love to see you in a tank top climb in front of those Jeffreys tubes. Better sweat all over you. Oh yes. Yeah, well, that, that, I walk upstairs. I know the feeling. This is so beautifully filmed. I think they just got every shot and the music here is perfect. The reaction shot. is just perfect. It's the thing too, isn't it? It like, yes, it always was the Falcons. Of course it was the Falcons. That's brilliant. And that's why, of course, we get the Falcons as the villains in early... Oh, I had to... Yeah, yeah. There's so many casual racism going on. Thank God. Although Manikoto is the producer that did the reversal of this scene. Yeah, it's a bastard. Yeah, that's that was one thing that I just really, really liked. And I, like, look at that where they hold hands. They've barely been in it together. We barely seen them and they just quickly hold each other's hands and then he goes forward. I think it's terrific. I'm like, what the shaping can as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's brilliant, isn't it? It's such a, again, you know, it ties into this concept we're talking about. They're not weak as, you know, we can all do a Vulcan solute, but you know, the, yeah, does anyone that can, he tries, he's like, nah that I'm in a handshake instead. been practising. Can you guys do it? Yeah, that's how great people normally. What's Doctor Who day then? November the 21st? Yeah, I guess. That's much more warm, though. I mean, 1st contact day, like again, it's putting it into history you know, like it's the one big gap in the timeline. It's a genius one to make the centrepiece of this film, I think. It's the only Next Generation film that gives us a vital moment like this. You know what I mean? There's nothing in generation. I mean, I suppose in... You think about the people of Veridian 4, Joe. You do. I'm not sure I do. I don't give a shit. In nemesis, they do they do inform some of Kursman Trek, don't they, with the Romulans Senate and all that. It's always boring. Like, who cares? This is important. This is absolutely a pin in Star Trek law. See, this, I envy you the world you're going to, and he just says I envy you. Like this is a thing, this incredible thing that's about to happen on Earth. And remember, it's an earth where 600000000 people have died in the 3rd world war in the in the decades leading up to this, you know, like they nearly don't make it. Um, and then this happens. It's amazing. It's such a, that's great. That kiss as well. Because it's in no way romantic. It's just a kiss. It is, it's 100% romantic because, you know, it's, but it is, it is just what it's, what it's going to be, you know, because after everything they've been through, you know, you can see it in their eyes and then a little peck on the cheek. I mean, if that was, if that was Kirk, it would be full on power smooch. Yeah. But he's a bit older and and they've got the clubs in there with other people. In this contract, you know, in every film he's going to have one kiss, even if it's a peck on the cheek. Although he has that beautiful woman in insurrection, doesn't he? She's stunning, isn't she? She's gorgeous. I mean he's batting there. Yeah, yeah. Oh, look, there's a publicity shot. The next generation shot of everyone with the bridge. I actually love how we don't see them leave as well. We see the shot on the bridge. We see Lily look up and see them leave through the hole in the sky and then we cut to this ridiculous scene where he's giving them the terrible whiskey and trying to make them dance, which is just awesome. We've got a few plot holes, but we've got a few lanes to... Oh, that's right. We do go to wrap them up, is it? we wrap up. We'll get back. Oh, yeah, we'll just, we'll just replicate whatever, whatever we'll prove. We can do that with the warp engines there, magic. Yeah, yeah. If they would get back in, what, like whatever? What about the Vulcans, though? How come they're not going to spot us? Whoopsing, I would. We'll just park it behind you. We had that. Behind the moon. It's fine. No one will see us behind the moon. That's not how sensors work nowadays. So, you know, they're all shit, you know, so it's all crazy. taking his place in history. He's seen us through the most important moment ever, but he's still a prick. Oh, do you see the way he was dancing? That's how I look dancing. absolutely terrible. Oh, that was a chore. What a joy. And frankly, everyone's breathing a sigh of relief after generations, you know. Yeah. Coming out of the cinema going. Wow, I do it again and again. Although Fraser, I believe you're a fan of insurrection. I quite like it. You know, it's not a great film. It's, more than anything, it is, like you say, it's, it's a big, um next generation episode. you know, whereas this one doesn't feel like that, that, you know, insurrection really does. But, you know, it has some moments of charm in it. I like the sort of the concept. what you're saying, this is like a fundamental pin in the history of the federation. I think insurrection really does that job of, you know, saying well, actually what underpins the Federation is this idea of the prime direct, this idea that we are better and we don't just, um you know, throw a weight around or anything. We're not like Americans storming into Kubi it for oil or anything like that when, and it really, it kind of plays with those ideas. I hate to sound like a stuck record, you know, we have done a lot of concepts of insurrection with the marquee. They just can't get out of this mindset. And I think I do wonder if this is why the TNG movies just didn't have a hose. I think there is a different angle with insurrection than, you know, the Marquis or, um, played very sympathetically at times as you know, there's, there's, there's episodes where you kind of think, yeah, I can see where the market coming from, yeah. Yeah, Micah chooses the Niki. you know what I mean? He's us. Like he's one of us and he makes that choice, the choice that Rowe makes. Like people that we care about make the choice to do the marquee. It's not entirely clear that they're in the wrong. And I think that's that's good. Like, that's a good... Exactly, but, you know, you understand why. You know, you get a good, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Even, you know, the stuff in, what's the episode in series 7 with Wesley in it at the very end and the and the naval journey's end yeah. So all of that ambiguity about stuff. Like, I thought that was that was good. Like, the trouble with the inspiration is, they're still, they're still thinking in that framework that they are. They just can't get out of it. It's because it's the same people doing it and it's the same people who've been doing it for ages. And if you compare it to Kurtzman Trek, where you've got a wider range of creatives. You know, it's not just Alex Kurtzman doing everything. You know, there's different producers and different writers and different people involved in all of the different series. And so they don't all seem the same, but all of the 90s strike stuff just seems the same because it's all the same people doing it. And by just going, we're going straight to films because the other crew are too old to do them and we want to keep doing Star Trek films. That just means that we haven't had the chance to miss them and we don't get to see them being written by different creatives. And that's why I think Picard series 3 is so great because you've got completely new people, a completely new group of people creating a story and a universe for these people to live in. And I think that's why that's so successful. But it's kind of why I don't think Nemesis had a hope in hell. when it came out, is because you are right, Fraser. So they're doing Picard and Data again, and we've done that 3 times already. There's nothing new or interesting said about either character in that. We're bringing in, what, fake data and fake Picard in that to try and make it more interesting. It's the same bloody people writing it again, so they've got nothing new to say. But they bring it, they go, right, well, we'll try something new there. We'll bring in a new director who's never directed Star Trek before. And he hasn't got a fucking clue what Star Trek's about, how to do it. The whole thing is just a massively expensive flop, and it's really sad because for a long time, that was the next generation's legacy for a long time until Picard, well, maybe Picard 3 basically. However, at this point, things are looking bright because this film was a huge critical and financial success. It was, I think, the highest grossing trek film to this and they you know, they thought they were on for a winner. No wonder they kept going. Yeah, yeah. How much did it cost again? It costs 40000000, Fraser, and it made 142 million. It made 1000000 more than its budget. So they must have been sitting there and those offers rubbing their hands together going, right, get on the phone to Patrick. We're going to do another one, you know. Patrick, back in the gym. All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to work out where we're going next. First contact was my excellent choice for this year's Christmas movie, which can only mean that it's your turn to pick now, Joe. So what series are we choosing from? Well, I've got to go where I usually go, and that's to the 90s because, well, we've got our fucking tom still to do compared to everywhere else. And, you know, we may find ourselves in a next generation episode it might be nice to do some comparisons to the movie. Okay. Okay. So here we go. All 4 in, next generation, Deep Space and Iron, Voyager, and Enterprise. Excellent. Again, chances are this will be terrible, but let's go. It's terrible. Season one of Next Generation, season one, episode 10. Hide and Q. Surely you remember that one, Fraser. which one's that again? It's when Q gives all of his magical powers to Riker. To Acre. Yes. Yeah. Oh, man. I'm not quite up to that one on my we watch. I mean, we watch is stalled. Yeah, it's not a wood store before then. I'm gonna have to pick that up again. Oh, that would be interesting. Yeah, do that one No, it's too. I can do it on the 1st row. It's the one where Riker offers the Klingon woman. to war from the bridge and she starts crawling along the floor towards him. It's a horny Roddenberry one. Where where he turns Wesley into an old man who in no way looks like Will Wheaton now. This is an enormous bulky bloke who goes, but when he talks, he's still got Will Wheaton's voice. That's terrible. But Geordie says, oh, look, you got hard. Well done, Wes. like it's like creepy and totally weird. Yeah, but then he offers Geordie his sight back and oh, and he's going to make did. human, isn't he? I'll press the button again. Oh my god. Oh no. Somehow, we've got something even worse. Well, is it code of honour? We may have to do this, you know. We've mentioned it quite a few times in Untitled Star Trek Project and it's never come up on the randomiser before. You're random. Star Trek D Space 9 episode is season one, episode 10 again. move along home. Oh yes, no, we absolutely have to do that. Yeah, yeah, we're doing it. Oh, I love that one. Freeze, I do, I need to remind you what that one's about. No, that, that, it's like, that is literally the um, the 1st ever episode of Deep Space 9 I watched. Oh, you came back? Yeah, animated school. He had Sky, and I didn't at the time, so he videoed a bunch of DS names for us and, you know, put them all on a tape and, you know so I had a tape for like 3 or 4 taste lanes, and that was the very 1st one. So, yeah, absolutely do that. I mean, it's the one that most people considered to be the Nadir of Deep Space. I've watched that bear with us. I'm going to see what I wrote about it when I watched it. Oh, my DS name. All I'm going to say in the interim is A la Marine, count 2 4, A la Marine, then 3 more, et cetera, et cetera. I don't need to mention that we've we've done it on lower decks, do I? What, move along home? Yeah, what we've done that we've played that game. We've had people trapped in the game in Lower Decks. This is substantially worse. Obviously, because it's me, I have brought an essay about this. Oh, please, come on now. So one time we get to talk to you. Come on. Using the hashtag today is trek. Today's trek is DS9, series one, episode 10, move along home. which everyone thinks is shit. So obviously isn't. Is this DS9's biggest victim of a C fan wisdom? I think so. Sure, the episode pulls up no trees and can easily be considered mid-season filler, but fills the season very nicely, thank you. Where was the Enterprise with Flight Renew World and have some fun with a new alien race before buggering off? Yeah, we have the aliens fly through the wormhole to us. Before buggering off, DS name will work better when these new races stick, but this is the format of trick at this time. The central plot is perfectly fine with our main character stuck trying to find their way through the game. It's city of the Excelon level puzzle solvent, but hey, there's only half an hour and we should be able to play or move along at home. The final rug pull of. Yeah, it was just a game, you knackers, is a perfectly smart way of getting your characters out of power without the need for a dais. Not for the 1st time, the best funness we had around the main plot. Great to see pre-eddington prim and back. It would have been great for him to become assembly regular, but I suppose there's only so much of Odo shit you can take before you ask to be reassigned. Is he in this one? Priman. Priming, yes. Oh, he's such a prick. The man who threatens to resign every time you question his ability goes to shit without the command crew. This arrogance doesn't endear you to him. I much prefer the sardonic, take no shit, defender of justice order of the earlier episodes. They're still figuring him out. Stand out seeing his quarks break down over having to pick a player to lose. Quark is all scoundrel, liar, and a thief should be the comedy relief, but has a lot more depth than you expect at this stage. He's unexpectedly one of the show's MVPs. One of the reasons I enjoy this story is because it was the 1st DSD I saw tipped from Sky by Friend at school, it was enjoyable enough for me to watch more then and still is today. Wow. That's exciting. Receives fan wisdom. I'm going in with huge expectations now. A la Marie. You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford Nathan Bottomley, and special guest star, Fraser Gregory. We're online at untitledstar trekproject.com where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts. Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lam. This episode was recorded on the 17th of December 2024 and released on the 20th of December. We'll see you next time for Star Trek Deep Space 9. Move along home. I think that's it. Yeah, what is it there? Oh, who chose that one? Was it me? I think it was me. Me? No, I don't think it was. Okay, well then I should... Give me a sec, give me a sec, give me a sec, give me a sec. I can establish this for a fact. I've got the I hope I did come across as like I was enjoying that movie. No, you didn't. Not just shit. No, and there were things that needed to be said about it too. Like, you know. All right. Oh, my God. Is that us? Oh, that's what we talking about. Decides to do the weird dance as well. That's a fighting, though, because going for it. I don't know why so many time for good cheer and eggnog and a Star Trek movie. And so that's what we're going to be picking this potentially terrible stuff. Oh, I know, I know. On average, they're mostly terrible. I am going to speak one now. Yeah, so it's your turn. Oh, great. Okay. All right. We did. So what we did, we did absolute candid last week. Just trying to see where we are. So, We literally have, I, in episode nine. To Paul, Garak. Julian. And Harry Kim. Oh my god. Oh, Garo, I will be so happy. He's gone, it's used to go back to conventions. Parallel universes and there's heaps of Harry Kimbs. And they're all ensigns. Which is the thing. And Harry Kim does, like, Garrett does the most incredible cartoon character performance. Like it's definitely Harry, but he's absolutely leaning into being a cartoon character. It's wonderful. He's really good. He's so great. But yeah, yeah. Garak and Bashir are characters in it and it's a whole thing. Chosen my series is. Okay. All right, okay. Oh, you might have to help us here, Fraser, I think. Okay. So we might call on you if we don't know what it is or something. Anyway, feel free to just participate in the conversation, just have to just be... No, no, because I'm going to press the button a couple of times. So I'm going to ask phrase what he thinks of each episode as we hear. I'm going to get Wikipedia out so I can remain myself of which one it is. just remind us which one is because... I do lots of cutting. So obviously we can't edit when, yeah, when, when we're doing the film, but I cut the hell out of this, including all of this, where we go, I have no idea what the fuck that is. Let's look that up, you know, like all of that. I don't know if you've noticed. I sound so smart at the beginning and the end of every episode. For some reason, lose all my IQ in the middle or somewhere. We all do that. Okay. So the power of editing. All right, it's the end of the episode.