Absolute Candor

Hey, Joe. Hi. So we're back on a series that we haven't done since January, I think. It's Star Trek Picard, and it's Sancho Picard series one, episode 4 Absolute Candour. I don't know who any of the writers are, so I can't even remember their name, but it is directed by our Jonathan Frakes. This, to me, is going to be a little bit like coming on a podcast and talking about chapter 4 of a novel. The transitionary chapter between chapter 3 and chapter 5, which are 3 and 5 are fantastic chapters, right? And four, it's got its moments, but you know, it's sort of doing the business of getting us to five. Yeah, yeah. It strikes me that this is, this is four, and it sees the introduction of a new character in Elnor, and then in the very last minute or so, the introduction of yet another new character in 7, and we start the episode with Gerati and Rios having, I think, their 1st conversation together. So I think Gerati has just joined at the end of episode 3 perhaps. And so we're taking quite a while to assemble the crew. And in the meantime, some nonsense is going on on a Borg cube and who knows what's happening there. I mean, those scenes on the ball cube. I think they were the worst of the season because they were interminably long and threaded through about 5 episodes and you got maybe like a one or 2 scenes per episode. And it's just the sort of thing that back in the 90s and I'm going to make a few comparisons back in the 90s, somewhat positively unusually. They would have just all been shoved in one episode and we would have just done it and got it over and done with. It does make coming back to these a bit confusing when you watch them out of context because you're like, well, I have no idea what happened on the Borg cube before this. I don't know where this is going. All I know is this is a single scene of apparently relevance, but of no relevance at all to the episode I'm watching. It's all very confusing. And I think that that was probably my experience of watching series one. I think I remember some things clicking into place, and in particular, there's a scene, a few episodes on from here where we see that Agnes has been exposed to a thing called the admonition by Commodore O, which explains. Oh, was that where she murders somebody? Well, she she will, I think, next week. Doesn't she matter? Does she murder someone? No. No, it's the scene at the very beginning of an episode where she sees a vision that some Romulans have seen, including the mad woman in this week's episode, and that's a vision of Soji calling upon the scary tentacle things from space at the final, sort of at the end of episode 10 that are going to come and destroy all organic life. And so it is made clear what's going on. There's a very simple kind of structure to the series, which is Picard has to chase and save Data's daughter from some Romulans who hate synths. And I think that's made sort of clear very early on. We know it's the Tal Shiar. He explains that to Elanor in this episode. And I think we do eventually get there, but I don't know. I think they're still kind of feeling their way, and I don't think that they successfully structure the season very well. And so while I think it all comes out fine in the end and it tells a coherent story, I think there are points in the season where you're kind of going, I'm really not sure what's going on here. It's a very novel way of telling a Star Trek season by turning it into a novel, but it isn't a novel. So, and in a novel, when you're reading a passage. Now you've got the time. You have to have the time to sort of explain imagery and how people are feeling in a TV show. You kind of have to go from moment to moment. So you have these individual moments in episodes, but there isn't really the time to explain what it's all about. And you're right, it does all sort of come together in the last two. For example, what you said there about assembling the regulars and we had a bit of chat before doing this about, you know, you have 2 or 3 episodes, maybe 4, where each episode introduces a new regular, right? And that's an interesting approach to doing it. As long as sort of those introductory stories are interesting in their own right, more on that later. But looking at the series as an overview now, and we can because it's over. Yeah, we don't get a lot of time with these characters. Yeah. We get 2 seasons with them. So I don't want to waste precious time doing a whole episode setting them up and bringing them in. I just want them in so I can have 2 seasons with this fantastic group because the thing that Picard gets right, and I didn't really see it at the time, and I really appreciate it now, is it developed a new ensemble for a new type of Star Trek show, and those characters are fucking great. They're well cast. They're well written and they have brilliant chemistry together. And I do think it was a mistake. I get why we went and did TNG in the last season. It's the last hurrah for that crew and all of that. But a part of me is annoyed because I think they did bring together something really great and it had legs and those characters could have gone on and had 2 or 3 more seasons together telling great, great stories. So sort of doing these stately introductions to all of these characters. I think that works if we're then going to go on and have 5 or 6 seasons with them and explore those characters really well. But we don't. And so it kind of feels like a bit of a waste of time. And that's how I felt watching this episode was there's good stuff on the screen. It's well filmed. It's mostly well written. It's certainly well performed, but fuck me, get on with it. I want to start having fun with these characters. So, I think that this is trying to do, like, this is trying to structure itself the way that Game of Thrones stars. isn't it? And the way that other prestige TV does. And so it's not what we're used to at all, but it is absolutely not unusual for a prestige for a prestige TV show to have some kind of subplot going on somewhere whose significance only becomes apparent later and that has, you know, the various characters in the different subplots crashing into one another and stuff. So that seems like a normal way of structuring it. It's not where we land, I think, eventually with discovery, for instance, or with Picard series 3, which I think does a better job discovery eventually, and Picard series 3 of serialisation of giving you something to watch, if you're just tuning in for a week. I think this very nearly does that because I think the Eleanor story is important because it tells us something about Picard that we didn't know and that maybe Picard didn't know either. And I think that's interesting because what this series does, and I think one of the reasons that they get Patrick Stewart back, is that it comments on the politics of the time. This is broadcast in 2020 and we've just had the 1st Trump presidency. We've had Brexit and we have these governments that are turning inward and becoming hostile to international obligations. And Star Trek the Next Generation was so much about coalition building about, you know, helping refugees, all of that sort of stuff. So the Romulan supernova incident thing is set up in nemesis, isn't it? That's where we sort of 1st hear about it. And so they follow up with that. And what happens is this massive disaster that we saw happening in children of Mars, and suddenly we turn inwards, and suddenly we are no longer generous enough to help other people in need. And all of that's really interesting. And I think, as I said, I think that's how they get Stuart back. And we learned about this in Children of Mars and we learned about it in the interview in episode one of Picard, which appears at the beginning of the previously on thing. But what we don't know yet and what Picard doesn't really know yet is that he let Starfleet's refusal to help stop him from helping and stop him from keeping his promises. And he's confronted with that in a proper way, 1st by Elanor, and then by those Romulans at the bar. And he, he, he apologises and admits that he was as much in the wrong as the Federation was. And I thought that was good. That was a story that was worth telling. particularly given how important that is to the rest of the thing. Like, this isn't a story about the Borg, Picard series one, it's not a story about the Borg at all. It is a story about the Romulans. And so I thought that was good. And I thought that this planet Vashti, the Romulan resettlement centre on Vashti, looks amazing. You know, it's a really good and convincing setting. And I also thought that Eleanor character worked really well. And the woman, the woman who plays Zani, the Romulan sincerity nun she's amazing. Like, she's astoundingly great. And so I'm glad we got to meet her too. So many things to say about what you just said there. And obviously, we will go into the episode in a second. I found it all very worthy. I found all of that stuff very worthy, you know, but worthy does not mean particularly entertaining or exciting or fun. I was going nodding my head going, Yes, yes, I see what they're doing here. This is very competently done television. But at no point was I going, my God, I can't wait to see the next scene. What the hell's coming next, you know? And I do need a bit of that. I do, especially when the 1st half of the episode is everyone on spaceships, just standing around talking. So it just feels like nothing, there's no incident in this. Well, there's a few there's there's a few shots fired before the end of the episode. Thank God. But the other thing, yeah, you've made a comparison with Game of Thrones there, yeah. absolutely prestige TV, hugely popular until that dismal last season. But it's also really slow. Very slow indeed. And, you know, like, yeah, I think 90s trek did things too quickly. They would, you know, we said it. in a session. They did this huge political upheaval in a 45 minutes with 3 characters. back to the status quo. Yeah, exactly. this is the other end of that. We do this over 10 episodes. 10 hours, you know. So there's a lot of like going from A to B and talking about how important all this stuff is. And that's not particularly exciting. When we get there in the end, in the last 2 episodes, and there's enormous flowers in space and huge space battles and all of the Android planets, it's absolutely incredible, but getting there is a bit of a chore. But one real positive I want to say about series one, and again I'm making an unpleasant comparison to season 3 of Picard, is I think they took far more risk series as well. It's so easy to come in and go, right, we're going to bring the next generation crew together and 7 of 9 and the founders from Deep Space 9 and we're going to shove them on the Enterprise bridge and then add them fight a ball cube at the end. That is possibly the laziest summation I can think of. And it is great because it ticks all of our fan boxes and nostalgias and all of this. But it's why I sit there watching that season going, well, really this is where we were heading, is it? Whereas in one, they had sort of picking up that rock again and showing uglier sides of the Federation, I find all that stuff really interesting. They're doing really interesting things visual. I remember watching that 1st episode and you know the fight that happens in that sort of concrete area and all of that and it's a bit more visceral and nasty as well. A bit like Discover Discovery series one as well. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, to have that admiral swearing at Picard. and all this, and it's all a bit nasty and weird and not at all Star Trek the Next Generation. That's why I'm a bit pissed that we end up in Star Trek, the next generation at the end. Because they're trying something new. And actually, do you know what? There's faltering 1st steps, but I think, I'd really think they could have got somewhere truly impressive with that approach if they'd have just let it run, and I know Straits old and he didn't want to keep going. And all of this, but fuck me, I can see the potential here. I really can. I think there's a lot to be said for the idea that we've got Patrick Stewart willing to do some more Star Trek. We'll just do however much he likes, we'll pretty much do whatever he wants. And I do think that that final season is great because, of course it has all of those familiar elements in it, but it's not really very much like Star Trek and Next Generation at all, you know apart from those familiar characters. So taking those familiar characters, adding a few decades to them and getting them to act in a show that's quite different in tone. I think is... to actual characters rather than caricatures, yeah. Yeah. What a bold move. I know I know. Like, so I'm sorry, I kind of came out of this episode a bit disappointed. But I was reminded of the things that pissed me off when I 1st watched Picard Series one that I now think were opportunities rather than just trying to annoy fans of Star Trek the Next Generation. There's something here. I don't think they're there, but there's absolutely something here. Yeah. Okay. I will count as in. I trust you will um, you will be talking with absolute candour in this episode. as always. Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off. Previously on. Yes. Beautiful chateau. Yeah, the thing about this too is I always think it's cheaper to do a ship because you have standing sets. You don't really have to create a new world or these sort of environments every week. And eventually that's where Picard goes. This is, you know, this is basically on La Serena and a planet. But, you know, we complain that it does take a long time to get the crew together, but gosh, we go to a lot more varied and interesting places in those 4 episodes than we would have in 4 episodes of Star Trek, the Next Generation. Although, to be fair, no, they did just set up the crew and encounter a far point, and then we went to 4 separate planets just with the crew established in that. Yeah. Boring planets. Yes, exactly. where they were patronised and then left, you know in a worse place than when they became. But, yeah. That's a generation for you. Good grief. so much has occurred so far. We're going from place to place here to all these characters. Yeah, so we will see that woman. So the woman who menaces Soji with a gun is called Ramdar, and she does feature in this episode. Look at this shot of the sort of Romulan relocation. I know. Ridiculously expensive. Yeah, yeah, it looks great, doesn't it? And just this, that doing that sort of washed out look, though. Whenever TV goes to like Mexico. It's that sort of yellow. Everything's yellow. I mean, we're in California, but yes, everything is very yellow. Not like California of the 90s. So is it? No, it does convince. And look, why do they call him sister boy? And then he says, bite me. So this is this is little Elanor. Oh, and Picard's arrived. And I was kind of going, why is he called Sister Boy? and it's because, of course, he's a little boy who lives with the sisters, you know, like he, he, a boy shouldn't be living with the uh, Kawat Milan, and he kind of... He's a sensitive boy, you know, because he's been brought up with all these fabulous women. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, I did promise I was going to say someone you weren't going to like in this. Oh okay. Do you want me to get it over and done with? Yeah, go on. I find that character very boring indeed. Oh, he's so pretty though. No, he's pretty. Yeah, but there's just, there's not a lot of personality there. I'll say that In fact, they end up playing for laughs in later episodes. Like, he's mostly a comedy character. He's great when they do play him for laughs. That's much better, but not really here. As I say, it's very worthy. So, so I, I don't know why they've got a kid with an American accent playing him when Evan is Australian. I grew up in Melbourne. And one of the things that we never get as Australians, except for Farscape, which is a show that I've never heard of and will never watch at me if you like, but I'm never, ever going to watch it. You never see Australians on science fiction shows. And so having an Australian regular and having this kid who just sounds like a surfy, like just the way he talks. He sounds like a surfy boy, but he looks like an elf, you know. I can't believe you just said, at me if you won. Not everybody. Get at him now. All right. No, no. And I do see what they're doing. And I do think it's an interesting approach. So that sort of character. I, it just doesn't sing with me, you know, like, I, I think it's a good performance. But I just think he's a bit doll. The other thing too, that I think it does is that it introduces because it's been some years since we've regularly seen Picard on telly, and so there's enough time for there to be someone like Raffi, who he has a very, very close relationship with. There's some personality, Nathan. This is 14 years before the rest of the episode. This is set 14 years. And Rafi is contacting him and overcomes to tell him about the attack on Mars at the end of the episode. That attack on Mars. I think, was such a genius move. I think it's doing the same thing that Discovery is doing in three with all of the ships blowing up that I live in like that. But it's less, I think, it's a bit much in 33 of discovery of every single spaceship blowing up and all that loss of life. This is a terrorist attack, which is beautifully executed when we see it as well. Very scary, actually, that short trips. And then it has all of these consequences for the show as a result. I think it was just a really savvy move. There's a great, I think one of the later episodes opens with us seeing the synths carrying out the attack on Mars, which is super interesting. See, I love this too, where we're intercutting between him play sword fighting with Elnor and reading the story. And there's one moment where Elanor says, what's parrying? And he says, I'll show you tomorrow. And, you know, by the end of the episode, he's, you know, the best swordsman that you could possibly imagine and stuff. I think all of that's kind of adorable. He's giving the phone call. Refreshing. Yeah, here is for a bit you see him having fun. Not anymore. because he just found out about the terror attack. But you don't really have a lot of fun in this season. So he's much more chilled out when they head back into time in series two, you know? or when he's got his gang back together in series 3. So this, like, he looks like an Englishman, doesn't he, going to sort of, you know, yeah, going to, and I love that too. Where he doesn't stop, stand, you know, stand there and wait to be beamed up. He just walks off and he's beamed up as he walks off and our last shot is of of Elanor seeing him for the last time. Like he doesn't see him for another 14 years. Him in that suit, I was just imagining, you know, some tedious Englishman turning up in India back in the day, you know, right? I'm here to civilise you all, you know. Yeah, it's what James Bond would wear in NASA, you know, like, you know, it's very stately music, this. I feel as if they're going for the DS9 effect, but I love all the imagery, though. visual titles. But again, this is what prestige TV is doing in title sequences isn't it? Like, well, I prefer the sort of the Strange New Worlds, but, yeah dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. You know, a bit more exciting. But I mean, it's gorgeous. gorgeous, yeah. And I did miss it in series 3 where they just went for the 1st contact music, you know, because of course they did. I feel the listeners of Untitled Star Trek Project should prepare themselves because I am just going to spend the next 40 minutes now pointing out every single hot man that's on the screen because the ratio of hot men in this episode is very much in my favour. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Certainly more hot men in this episode than in 7 years of Star Trek, the Next Generation. What, just love? Oh, really, wasn't it? Yeah, it's basically the far. Oh, no, no, when this is the moment where we get the Star Trek, the Next Generation music. I think the music is beautiful in this episode too. I do like how they put the director's name at the end of the credits now as well. You know, it used to be just subtly put in at the bottom of the screen in the 90s, wasn't it? Oh, here's Rios. Now, he is the hottest character in all 60 years of Star Trek barnum. He's really hot. I mean, jeez, Louise, he's beautiful. Nathan, right? When I went out to Columbia for those 3 months, yeah. I had a bit of an affair with a Colombian model and take away the scruff around his face and they do look quite alike, actually, you know, it could be wild, so attracted to him. Oh, I was a good free months. No, he's super handsome and there are a lot of him on board the ship. Remember later on there's a scene where Raffi is talking to all of the Rioz holograms and it's kind of like sweetheart. Why are you talking? You're in holodeck. We've already established the night is what these holodecks are for. Get to it. Oh, I love this. What's this actress's name? Uh, Alison Peele. She is so great. She turned up in M. Night Schmalians. I can never say his surname. Yes, in his latest trap, which was a terrible film, but she had the best scene in it where the serial killer goes home and she's the wife of the serial killer and she knows he's a serial killer and there's a tense domestic moment. She acted it to the hill. She's a real talent. Yeah, she's great. She's really good. In fact, she's so convincing that a bit later on in this season where she's tortured by the Vulcan lady. It's very unpleasant to watch. She's a Romulan. Oh, God. I don't have the shoulder pants anymore. Actually, everyone thinks she's a Vulcan, isn't it? Commodore. Oh. Like everyone thinks she's a Vulcan. She's in disguise as a Vulcan. The trouble is all the makeup's too good now, you know? It's like, it's too subtle for me. Well, in fact, there's a massive problem because it's high definition, everyone has to be properly made up. You can't just do shitty makeup on the background artists. Oh, and sorry, I'm going to make another unfair comparison with series three. I fucking love this spaceship of Rios's. It's such a different look, right? It's like a bloody warehouse. It's wonderful. It's a huge warehouse with all these fabulous screens flying in the air that you touch. Oh, it's wonderful. When they go back to the carpet. like, what are you doing? So yeah, so this is, of course, um, Santiago Cabrera playing Mr Hospitality, hologram. Um, and all of them have, like, a lot of them have names, like the the emergency tactical holograms called Emmett, you know, emergency tactical. And I think the Scottish one who is the engineering one's called Ian. But this one is just called Mr. Hospitality. He doesn't get in lame. the more scruff you give him. The hotter he gets. But has he got any English accent? He's got an English accent, I think. He actually does a good hospitality one. All the accents, doesn't he? Yeah, except he deliberately has a terrible Scottish accent. And look, I hate that fucking hospitality program. It's such a great line. I like it. The second he walks in, he's like, oh, balls, I'm out. He's gone. Oh, and Rafi's great as well. And the unspoken. Well, we do explore it a bit, but the respect that Raffi and Picard have for each other. is so well played. I really like this scene. There's this thing where she says, you know, I don't, why are we going here? This is your guilt trip? Like, why are we going here? And he just says to her, I may never pass this way again. And it's not just because he's old because he already knows he has the Iromotic syndrome, although they don't call it that. Um, uh, you know, there's been a conversation with his doctor early on. So he has the deadly disease that he is dying from all good things. Ah, yeah. Ah, yes, I knew I'd heard it before somewhere. Yeah, they don't use that. They don't say that. Aerodic syndrome. Trust you to remember it. But... But, and notice too, that she talks about them putting up a big statue of him, because they all think that everyone thinks he's a great guy, and that's the thing that gets weak, that he learns here, that he failed them. He chose to fail them. And I think that's really interesting, you know, yeah. See, look, these 4 together in this room. Yeah, it's really fun ensemble. What a great ensemble characters. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know. All well-defined people, all giving great subtle performances. Next generation who now? I've forgotten what it's like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, it works too, because Raffi has been here for as long as, you know, for as long as Riker was originally, you know. What I what I dislike, though, is that they just do horrible things to these characters sometimes. And I know you have to do that sometimes for dramatic purposes, but poor Raffi, man. She has more breakdowns and turns to alcohol. I don't like any of that. And like I said, Alison Pill's character being tortured horribly like, I don't like any of that. And I just think you could do all of it, but just dial it back a bit, you know? them enjoy their lives. She vomits 3 times. It's just the ficard episodes that we've already done. I mean, they take poor little Twinkie Echeb from Star Trek Voyager right? and put a drill through his eyeball. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now they make 7 do that. Like they make 7 kill him. And of course, Hugh is going to be killed later too. There are ways of torturing characters without bursting eyeballs you know, like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think this is them all feeling their way in. How far can we go? What can we do? And I think they realise because when you get to three, there isn't anything as nasty as bursting eyeballs and, you know, people vomit in left, right, and centre and things like that. Even discovery tones stuff down. Like series one is quite violent and bloody in discovery and it never goes and, you know, Strangely Worlds does put its characters through like emotional traumas. But it is quite light. You know, if we're going to have a character's chest being burst open, but go on. It's going to be some guest blue alien. Look at, look at, look at, look at her reaction. Like, this is so good. This cells that the 2 of them have known each other for such a long time. And when he says, I may never pass this way again. She's trying to dissuade him from going to Vashti and going to Free Cloud instead and look at... He's reluctant to admit it to her and he says it and he raises his eyebrows and shakes his head and look at her look like like it's really properly good. Like, that's a great moment in this episode. Look at her reaction. Well, it's doing that thing we talk about a lot. Then you get Alison Peele undermine it with a stupid comment about brilliant. You need her there more than ever. If we're going to be this serious all the time. We need a character that's going to burst that bubble every now and again. But that was a really properly well acting scene. I really liked it It's that thing we talk about all the time about allowing actors to... explore their emotions without putting the words in their mouths. was really good. And that's one thing that just TV has got better at doing, trusting the actors. So look at what Jonathan Frakes has decided to do. He's superimposed Ramda's face over Soji's face and Ramda is talking about the destroyer and Soji looks up when she says the word destroyer because we're going to discover that she's the destroyer. That's who is being talked about. And that, um, that whole thing comes from the admonition. Um, you know, there's a prophecy, but it's a proper prophecy. It actually a message that's been put out for synth to respond to. But it tells such a terrible story about what happens to organic life that anyone who sees it goes mad. And so all of that stuff, that prophecy and stuff, that all coheres and is pointing to something, even though it's incomprehensible. right now. You just got that camera sort of gently span around Patrick Stewart there, you know, allowing us to sort of see his features and all of that. You know, Jonathan, you you had the right idea right from the start. Yeah. What did you up the pace? Quite so much. Another thing I think Picard did really, really well was it cherry picked moments from Next Generation. So Maddox in a measure from a man. Soji is a take on Lal from the offspring. It just took these very memorable moments that people still remember and incorporated him into this 1st series. So it does feel like a successor to the next generation whilst not figuring like the next generation. I thought that was really clever. So that reaction is pretty good, isn't it? Like he says, well, why don't you just say it's me and Raffi says yes, we tried that immediately and it didn't work because no one's impressed. And he kind of looks, oh, that's surprising. I thought I was a great guy. Just you wait until the last episode where they're in the ship in the middle of a space battle and they're doing comedy routines left, right, the centre. It's absolutely amazing. And I really like the fact that Rios is the captain. He's in the middle there. You know what I mean? Like, we're not doing the next generation. We're not doing bullshit hierarchy that we had before. Oh, this is where it all gets a bit worthy for me now, down on the planet. Yeah, see, but I like that. You know, like I like Star Trek doing politics and it's sort of proper politics, I think, you know. This is why I don't watch politics, though, you know, I find that all very worthy as well. Um, I do like, I do like all the atmospherics that, uh, Jonathan Brakes and stuff. He's got like creatures flying about the screen and things like that, you know? And he loves a bit of lens flare. It does. But like I buy this place. This seems real. And this, like, what's happening here? Like no backdrop or something? The way that the light is blown out makes it look like it's outside, but I don't think it is. I think it's just in the studio. Just shows you where our focus is, really. You're looking at the gorgeous setting and I'm looking at the piss of bread and that lovely meat that's being cooked. that does look good. It looks lovely. Look at how beautiful she is. And because she's absolutely candid. She says you got old Picard and he says you didn't. I don't know who did the close captions on this, but they keep saying absolute candle and Admiral Card rather than... I love this look. They put her in this costume, so they haven't got to put any makeup on her. Joe, just got to do her eyebrows up a little bit. They're learning, you know. They've spent a lot of money on this show, but they've still got to save somewhere. And here he is. And of course, the 1st thing he does is drop something or has an accident and says, sorry. Do you know what I mean? Because he will be a silly character, but this moment, you know and I, yeah. Okay, so he's, here is Ramda from last week. Soji is a great character as well, I think. Unwell. She another one that stitched, isn't she? Yeah, no, she plays someone different. She appears in episode one of series 2 where her and Gerati get drunk and they get hit on by Deltons by hot Deltons. The same alien as I Leah from Star Trek, the Motion Picture. Um, And then she plays another character. She plays the daughter of one of the songs, remember? Vaguely. Yeah. Like, I think we've made like one or 2 from that series, you know. Yeah. Oh, look at this hot man as well. Who is this now? Yeah, so this is Harry Tredaway. He's a twin. There's Luke Treadaway, who's also an actor who is identical to him, so there's 2 of them. Is this the series with Celia Emery's son in it? No, the scenery and my son is in um, um, prodigy. Oh, yeah, zero. Zero. He's zero. I get them all confused. But it's funny, Harry Tradaway and his sister are so ridiculously posh. Like, they're not just English, you've always terribly posh English people. They're learning the lessons from Hollywood, you know. They're the most British people you've possibly ever heard in television and evil. I mean, she, the woman. She is great. She's having a wonderful time playing those lines. But, Farmulation, these scenes are a bit dull. Yeah. So I, so what's happening here will lead up to a pretty great moment where she discovers that she's only 18 months old or something like that and that all of her memories are fake. And he's needling her here because he says that there's no record of her on a ship that she definitely remembers being on. And that's why they have this fight. But I did like the moment where he says, are you Tal Shiara and he says, no, because of course he is. And she says, if you were Talshiar, would you say no? And he says yes. Um, so, you know, so he's definitely tell Shiha, she's tell Shiha. Sorry to, yeah, come in with a bizarre detail. But is that the blue drink from in the pale moonlight he was drinking there? Is it a Romulan Romulan ale? Romney, ale, blue. Yeah. Apparently, pecant, biola, cats. I mean, I know all of these ball sets are amazing. There's a scene in the 1st episode where the camera flies into the ball ship, right? and shows all the layers and it's just the most incredible visual. I think maybe they built the set, so they were like, well, we're going to have a lot of scenes on here then. We spent the money. You have to have Borg, like at Star Trek, the Next Generation, and that's the one thing that they contribute to the Star Trek universe more than anything else, you know, as far as just aesthetics and visuals and stuff, are concerned. I think if Picard hadn't had the Borg in it in that 1st season then we would have wondered where they were. But instead it is just a backdrop for a story about Romulans. Yeah, I don't know. I'm kind of done with a ball. I'm so bored of the Borg now. Next Gen and Voyager and the movies and now this. I'm just like... I want to see what the Borg look like in 2020. It's like, what do they look like on television now if you do them now? I think that's absolutely a thing that I want to see. All the same, but the makeup's a bit better. Well, yeah, I don't know. I think they certainly, there's nothing revolutionary done creatively with the Borg in Picard. That justifies them being here. I don't think. And that's fine. You know, they're ticking boxes, nostalgia, blah, blah, blah. I get what they're doing You needed the Borg in endgame. You know, like you couldn't have done it without the Borg, I think. But like, I don't know, in this season, like that, that dreadful 90s trek planet they go to with all the androids later on, you know, they can do new stuff. It's just wonderful. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, this is quite hot, actually, look. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, they're both very attractive, aren't they? This is him planting the thing. Oh, you know, like you... That is the best thing about Kurtz and Trey, right? So there's so many hot men and women on the screen. That's it No matter how boring the episode is. There's always something to watch. There's something to look at. Yeah. And so he's deliberately trying to undermine her memories of herself. Um, and I think we do find out what happened on the Shinor, and I think that the people in the Shinor that RAM, that, you know, the question that Harry, that, that, uh, Soji's investigating is that they saw the admonition and went mad, I think. I think also to you in the chart, didn't I? There's a lot of context in this episode. It's giving us a lot of information about the overall story without any incident whatsoever. There is no actual plot occurring at all. No, I think I think Ray Mating, I think the remaining, um, it's not very long either. You know, like often these episodes are 60 minutes long, I think. It's quite short. But like, like, the next week's one, Stardust City Rack. That's got a plot to it, you know? and crazy shit going down. It's a lot of fun. It is pretty amazing. With another brilliant female villain in it, who's badly over the top. I thought it was Marina, so it is when I 1st watched it. I love this. So this guy is called Carcantar. I can't remember how they say it. Karkentar. Karkentar. He's the guy with the Romulan bird of prey, the ancient Romulan bird of prey. And I think, no, the Klingon bird of prey from original Star Trek. So we get to see that, which I think is pretty cool. So here we go. So he's going to ask little Elnor to join him. But Elnor's annoyed. He hasn't even said hello. Yeah, good for him. Yeah, you're rude. Look, you know me from the past. Come see me and talk to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We can have a sword fight like we did in the past. I know. He was such a thrilling, you know, he was so excited to see Picard. Do you think he's been thinking about him ever since, you know? that one day. He even says, did you miss me? You know, like, they're having a conversation about, about the mission or whatever and he just stops and says, did you miss me? like in the middle of it? Do you think Picard's thought about him much in the intervening years? He says that he does. I mean, he's had a lot of time. you know, picking those grapes for some time, hasn't he? A lot of times to think. Yeah. I don't know. I've loved to get you a bottle of that, Chateau Picard. It'd be pretty great. I'll pop into the future. I'll try and get at you for Christmas. All right. Is there something in the present? don't know. It canonically... I've got a mega budget. It's either that or the threshold, Tom Paris figure. All right? Okay. You choose. Yeah, now, look, I'm absolutely certain you will be able to give all of this stuff that's on the screen right now, all of these conversations, very, very smart readings. But I was just sort of going, yeah, come on, come on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There is a lot of talking, isn't there? It is very talky. Yeah, especially when they can do action so well now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's a funny thing, isn't it? Because there's always this thing because, you know, we loved original, like we loved Star Trek the Next Generation. We loved classic Doctor Who. And the, you know, the classic description of classic Doctor Who is people standing talking urgently in corridors and Star Trek The Next Generation is incredibly talky, isn't it? Like just everyone's talking. But the difference is, though. Yeah. Why, that's better for me. And more interesting to watch. is the performances are frequently terrible. So it's just absurdly entertaining to watch news. very theatrical you know. I brought down better men than you, Picard. all that sort of stuff you know. Whereas this is, everyone's sort of muted and quiet and naturalistic. And do you know what? That's my normal life and it's really boring my normal life. I also think this is a beautiful set in which this happens with sort of stunning lighting and stuff and it's nicely directed but not flashily directed. There you go. Did I miss you? Did you miss me? Of course I did. And then go back with your story. Nathan, I'm going to say something, nah, you're not going to be happy with me, all right? What's that? Well, you know, you sent me a picture of this beautiful man earlier on his Instagram page playing Elanor, yeah? Have they wired him up a bit in that makeup? No, they haven't watched it yet. I swear to God he looked darker in those Instagram pictures. No, no. They wouldn't do that. They like they just wouldn't do that. It's outrageous, frankly, that they took that. I mean, the picture you sent me. I mean, I banked it. Yeah. I mean, he is. I think he's still beautiful there. He's very pretty. They could have done it a bit more subtler, I think, and kept his you know, he had curly hair in real life. So he has curly hair in series 2 and it looks stupid. Like, I really like this long sort of mega like, yeah, you know like, I'm not doing Lords of the Rings again. sorry. If I'm only doing a couple of episodes, I'm going to have my normal hair. thank you very much It's still long, but yeah, no he's got so I kind of like that, though. like the very, very long black straight hair. I think it looks really good. It's really striking and it's not a very Star Trek. look like it's not a very normal Romulan look. I think I can explain, actually. I think I can probably explain my issue with all of these scenes down on the planet, you know. If we did an episode of Untiled Star Trek Project, we were talking in a very worthy way to each other, you know, and anyway, this is some of the detail television. Yes, isn't it absolutely gripping to watch, yeah. Now, I imagine that would be absolutely tedious for the people listening. Instead, we're somewhere up in the atmosphere, you know, having a great time. So, I, one thing that I don't think this sells is why he comes back. Um, What, Picard? No, no, no, why Elnor comes back. So Elanor says you abandoned me 14 years ago. And remember that he's a sad, lonely young man who lives among these nuns, you know, these women, and he's never found a place. That sounds incredible. They never stopped criticising him, though. Okay. But like, couldn't he just say to him, look, Elena, look, I know and I'm really sorry. But I had a bit of bad news. I had to go and sort out some rather important things that were occurring 14 years, though, and that's the point. That's what he learns here. and he learns it, he learns it kind of from this guy's reaction. So this guy, um, who has a space name, his name is. Tangum Adri or something. But Evan Park. He's a very, very striking looking man who gives an incredible performance. He gives this amazing speech about being a senator. Look how hot he looks. And prosthetic actually helps. Like he's really in so many hot man here. And, you know, normal looking man. Um, But he gives a great speech. I think he's really impressive. You just know, this was 90s true. This would be stock colony set number 52, wouldn't they? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's no way we'd be outside for this scene. It's amazing isn't it? Oh, there we go. Tim Andrev. I mean, look, he's given a wonderful performance. give him a name like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bless him. But he's really good. And this is where Picard learns. Like Picard thinks he can take down the no Romulan sign. How dare you? Why are you behaving like this, and he can just sit down and expect to be served, and it's only once this guy speaks to him that he realises that he's betrayed them, that he's let them down. And like the guy, what he says is really good. Like what the senator guy says is really good. And it's almost like, you know, He's on the back foot because his people were emiserated and had suffered this terrible calamity and it's kind of like we were pathetic and we were begging you for help and stuff and we lost faith in ourselves. You know, it wasn't just that you didn't help. It was that we were at your mercy and you... How far we've come. Do you remember the next generation series one? where the mere mention of the word Romulan brought fear to everybody's face. It's it's good and I think making Picard. That's the thing. At the beginning of series one, he has to have quit Starfleet right? Because we don't want to tell a story of him being an admiral at a desk. And see, this, you gave up. This is where he learns that, this is where he learns that he's done the wrong thing. But so giving him, like he's given up, he's quit Starfleet because Starfleet has done the wrong thing. Yeah, this guy is so good. He's really good. Well, he sort of learns it while surrounded by terrifying looking men that look like they're about to kick the shit out of him. I think the shot of the sign that says Romulans only was really potent as well. Yeah, yeah. I mean, this is why you get Patrick Stewart back, though, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Get angry like this and... What's the use of the word promise? So we have, you know, like he promises he'll come back and doesn't. He promises he'll help. He says, I promise you that's not what happened. And the guy just says, you promise. you promise, you know. And we had Zani saying, you know, a promise is a prison. I love these two. I love it where he starts fighting. And then he just throws the sword to the ground and says, I'm not doing this. I'm not going to do it. But... He's Elanor. That wee. He did a thing. That, that is fun. I was about to say, when are they going to start having fun? No one's having fun on this show. And I know they're talking about proper things. Jesus Christ to live. Of course, the other famous Romulan sincerity nun is Michael Burnham's mother, who joins the Kawat Milart in the future, 900 years in the future. We'll get to her. And there's an episode called Choose to Live. And so the Kuat Milada are introduced here, but they will come back to discovery. and they become a thing, you know. Whenever I think of Michael Burnham's mother, I just see floods of tears. Oh my god. Yeah. We were very overwrought. Do you know what I mean though? Like, there isn't a lot of fun in any of this, is there? No, no. In this season as well. I think they get there in the last two But, you know, like Nepenthe was beautiful, but very serious. You know, the opening 2 are very serious. I can see why people are sort of watching us going, okay, this is great Delhi, but like, why is Star Trek not fun anymore? And discovery is a bit serious too, at this point, although discovery does cilia, doesn't it? They've really learned to relax, though, don't they? Obviously, lower decks comes along. Strange new wells. I think I think it's fun above everything else in Strangely Wells. Yeah, and that's why people took to it more than this and Discovery. That sort of thing like, like your way into to, to characters should be humour a lot of the time. Like, that's why. Well, I think Alison works really well. Well, that's why she was my favourite. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then Elnor will eventually be there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then that's why I really love the scenes between Rios and that lovely lady has a romance with in series 2 because they're so fun together. That's really fun, isn't it? And 7 of 9 and Raffi, you know, going around in the car. That's really fun. They do learn to relax. Again, they have to sort of get there, you know? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And because I think because there's nothing bad in the production or nothing bad in the performance, there's nothing silly to laugh at. Yeah. when it is all very serious and I won't say worthy again. What's another nice word for word? Yeah, no, seriously. But, you know. I mean, Rafi, um, um, uh, Gerardi was used in that scene there where we learned that the reason that um, Elanor agreed uh, to, you know, become his, um, Cullen Kakai is how you say it in Romulan. I ask, I think he's Robertson's sister here. Yeah, their brother and sister. Why are you fucking? No. I mean, it looks like they are right now. No, but she keeps making fun of him for fucking the robot girl. you know, like the robot girl. Um, and I love how she leaves. Like she leaves at the end and she kind of goes, uh, you've got a week to, could have break her and find out where she comes from or it's back to our usual pain and violence, you know, like. But I remember the 1st time I watched this series. and I felt a chemistry between these 2 and I knew they were proper sister and I was like, ooh, that's both hot and uncomfortable at the same time no, no. I think it's supposed to be transgressive in a way. Do you know what I mean? They're sort of seedy English aristocrats with no proper boundaries that they're from Romulus. I mean, if they got it on, I don't know if I'd objected too much. Now, I can't remember if we've seen Narissa, I think, maybe with Commodore O or something at this point. Like I can't remember where we've seen her before. It's Narissa, this very evil lady here, yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it. So it's Narek and Narissa. She might be more MVP of this episode because she comes in and is so evil. Yeah, it's fabulous. She's having a great time. Whereas, you know, he's tortured and all of this. He angst ridden, this character. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, look at this. This is quite hot, you know. She starts strangling him. I think she wants to fucking, you know. No, but she's trying to, like, she's getting him to admit that Soji is the destroyer and so she has to be killed. None of this sort of having a relationship with her, none of this running down Borg cube corridors in your socks, having fun, you've got to be killing her or, you know, getting her to tell you where she comes from. Oh, sorry. She just straggled him right. The camera, Jonathan Franks knows exactly what he's doing. He's in the front of the screen panting and she's smiling right close to him. There is absolute. There is absolute incest violence kicking out. And he says, oh, I've planted a seed, you know, which is that seed of doubt about whether she was on the Ellison or whatever. And she says, I'll give you and your seed another week. It's a sort of thing. Oh, hurray. Spaceship spaceship. Woo-hoo. Did you see the way the camera pulled back there then? You got them all, it was like a next generation shot, but really good on the bridge. It's great, isn't it? And I love these, like, you know, you've got the the drone shell thing over the planet. You've got the spaceships just going in all directions. You got these incredible holographic kind of displays. Like it looks so amazing. Oh, oh, let's get let's get Emmett. I love how Emmett only speaks Spanish. So each of the holograms has a different accent. Look at his hair in disarray like that. He looks like a bloody tramp, but he's still hot. No, he's probably tattered and stuff. Look how he's got heaps of these tattoos that really... got sort of a Jason Momoa look about him, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that hair is gorgeous. Yeah, she's hard. He could be in the Timothay advert because he's worth it. Look at Elmore in the background. Absolutely. He knows he's on Star Trek. He's sort of wobbling about the place. but still looking cool. Raffi's there grabbing hold of the console like Sulu. Oh, here we go. Finally they're having fun. Look, that spaceship doesn't look great. Oh great. Look, did you see it sort of turning as it flows? Yeah, ships can do that. You wait till you see what the Enterprise deacon do in series 3 all right? I never knew it could move as amazingly as that, but there we are. Yeah, look at it. doesn't it look good? I mean, I think whoever was right in this episode was very, it was a sound idea to put in this action sequence at the end. Well, it's and it's introducing another 2nd character for the episode, isn't it? Seven, who needs a little bit less introduction, but undoubtedly we'll start episode 5 with them standing around talking to her and finding out what she's been up to. We literally start episode 5 of the drill going into HM's eye. Oh, no. Yes, okay, because it's her backstory. absolutely chilling. And all of this stuff where beam him in. The pilot is here, you know, oh, look, look at this shield around the planet as well. When ships go incredible, they're doomed. yeah it looks great. It's knife. I'm ready to fire. Yeah, look at this. And this is so funny. So good. Voyager literally colliding with the next generation. Yeah, yeah. But she's so good in this. Did we know she was coming in this? Was it all part of the publicity or was it a surprise? I can't remember. And of course, you know, like Evan is in the opening credits of this episode, but not of previous episodes, and this show, like discovery, doesn't have just 7 people who are in the opening credits of every episode. They just put the people who are in it in the opening credits important people. And so I don't think that we knew that she was in it because I think she gets a special guest star, Jerry Ryan, credit up front. Um, Uh, but I don't know that we realise that she's going to be a regular for the next, you know, 2.5 seasons. You know what this reminds me of? It reminds me of a common complaint I have about modern day serialised television, is that you come away from the episode right? Because the last couple of minutes were amazing and there's a big twist at the end, 7 of 9 has just turned up. My God. you want to see the next one. Yeah, but you're convinced that the whole episode was absolutely incredible because the lasting impression of it is the last moment and many a Game of Thrones episode rested on that. It's a load of people standing around doing boring things for 40 minutes and then someone dies horribly at the end of the episode you're like, oh, my God, I can't wait till what, that was amazing me because, you know. It's an amazing magic trick, if I want it. It does seem to fall. It was a terrific end. But it was a bit of a plot of an episode. So it's just, it is the, it's the wanting to spend time in that world. And particularly, you kind of feel when Star Trek, the Next Generation is over. And when Enterprise goes back to the mid 22nd century, and then Discovery comes along and it's set in the 23rd century, and, you know, the last that we've seen of the 24th century was Star Trek Nemesis, you know, we never got to see what happened. We never visited that time again. And so spending time there with some people that we know and just even seeing what the technology is like, seeing what the places are like. Like, I think all of that, there's a pleasure in that. And so, you know, that was certainly more fast moving than any given episode of Star Trek the next generation, even though there was a lot of standing around. I think you're right that it's more low key, that the standing around is more low key, less theatrical, and more naturally stick and so it's a bit less compelling to people who, like us, grew up on 90s track. But I still enjoyed that. And it did make me think I should go back and revisit series one at some point. I'll explain it with a polygraph then. I think sort of the 1st half of the episode where we're hanging out with our new regulars, sort of, you know, there was mild spikes on the polygraph, then our flatline somewhere in the middle of the episode. And, uh, yeah, sort of that was to about the last 5 minutes. Then suddenly there was huge activity on the polygraph and then suddenly I'm off the scale when 7 of 9 appeared at the end, you know? Yeah, like I said at the start of the episode, I don't want to write this off because I think this reminds me of all of the what I thought were bad creative moves that I now think are sound creative moves. But this is episode 4 of your 1st season. And, you know, it's sort of following the pattern of most 1st seasons of all Star Trek shows in that it's taking its time to find its way and there are some bumps along the way. And it was okay, but there are much, much better episodes of series one, not the card. And this actually gives me the I really want to explore them. I can't wait till we do it because I think we'll have some pleasant things to say. Alright, it's the end of the episode, and it's time for us to work out where we're going next, and given that it's Christmas coming up. That's traditionally a time for good cheer and eggnog and a Star Trek movie. And so that's what we're going to be picking this week. A potentially terrible Star Trek movie. not in our favour. On average, they're mostly terrible. Actually, I wonder if that's true. Anyway, it doesn't matter. I am going to pick one now. I'm going to press the randomiser and let's see where we're going. This is the most exciting pick of the year. Enjoy this moment, all right? No, you've got a manic gleam in your eye. It's actually Star Trek 2009. Is that the 1st one? Yeah. It's kind of interesting. That's an entirely new thing to discuss. It is. It's a whole new version of Star Trek that we have. Only 3 noises we've got to do that era of Star Trek. Hmm. Hmm. I'm going to lead this to you because I know really nothing about that era. So I'm going to be a bit in the dark. I mean, it is kind of interesting. It is kind of interesting, but it's not, it's not a film that I have as much affection for as I do for the previous films. I think it's got a lot going for it. I reckon you should do, push it again, right? And we'll try and air towards one to 9 only because that's where our love is, right? Yeah, yeah, for good and for bad. Even though this would have been a really interesting choice. Yeah, yeah. It'll come up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 10 years or so? Exactly. All right, let's try it again. Star Trek into Darkness. Oh, for God's sake. Push it again. Yeah that's terrible. Oh, I think it's this. Go on. Go on. It's from 1996 Star Trek 1st contact. Oh, yes. The best Beverly Crusher scene of all time. Oh, Beverly. Poor Beverly. Well, we did do the lower deck, Shepherd. Yeah, yeah, yeah. absolutely. Well, I mean, it's the one they got right, right? The one they got right. I think it is. It is the one Star Trek, the Next Generation film that they got right. Alfie Woodard. I just remembered. Amazing in it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think could be good. All right, I think we do it for sure. Boy, oh, boy. And no further. The line must be drawn here. No more pushes of the randomiser. That's right You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley. We're online at untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts. Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb. This episode was recorded on the 10th of December 2024 and released on the 13th of December. We'll see you next time for Star Trek, 1st contact. I think for once, I had a sound point to me, though, about how competently made this is, and that can sometimes be a bit dull. Yeah, that's right. There's nothing to laugh at. There's nothing ridiculous. Nothing inadvertently ridiculous. I feel like the next thing we should do is a really sort of terrible episode of 90s track. Actually, we don't have a lot of success of finding those because we tend to enjoy them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. That is true. But 1st contact would be great, do they? Yeah, 1st contact would be great. I think like... Yeah, yeah, I think after that, maybe original track or something. Oh, yeah. But a really terrible one. I need, so they've done 8 or 9 episodes now of series 5 of Flow of Decks. It like ends in a week or so. And I've only seen the 1st two. um so I need to properly do that. But I'm not doing anything except editing podcasts. I'm sort of doing a lot of reading for podcasts. I'm doing a lot of listening because Microsoft comes in waves we've finished big. He sometimes, when he's got loads of 2 or 2 to do, he's like, oh yeah, we won't listen today. And then when he ain't, he's like, right, we've got to listen to loads of big fins over, we're doing dark, dark Empire for that. And um... Yeah, and and we're doing a lot of films at the moment as well. That tin drummer. Have you seen that? Very... I mean, beautifully made in, I think it's the 70s. Yeah, I remember it being a thing, even when I was a little boy who decided that he'd had enough of the adults around him and he wasn't going to grow up anymore and he's got his little tin drum and he's got a voice where he screams really loud and breaks glass right? There's one great bit where he's in the church and he's had enough of the church. So he starts screaming his head off with all the winds and stuff matching. Just to liven things up a bit. And then, because it's in Germany and the Nazi movements gain traction. And so he's got a lot of, but it's just so weird. I just didn't understand what point it was trying to make apart from. Here's the viewpoint of this quite scary little child. As Nazism took hold and... And you saw wicked last night? Oh, I loved her out. It's so good I was I was really and colour me. being an idiot because I said to him. Oh, fuck sake, 2.5 hours. I said, the fucking play's only an hour and a half . Yeah, and the thing was too, I was exhausted. I had like 5 hours sleep. I'd had all day at work. It was Friday night. It was starting at 9 or something and I was going, what the fuck? Why have I ever agreed to do this? And I was just entranced. was so good. The last 10 minutes. It's the 1st time in ages I've had like goosies. The whole defying gravity sequence. I just, and the woman next to me was in tears. She was literally in tears. It's so good. I, and I thought, like, what's the name of the actress playing alphabet? Just so, so great. Oh, um, ridiculous. incredible. But for me, the MVP we are was Ariana Grande. Because I just, I just thought, like, she had a harder role to play because she was such an obnoxious narcist. And I just loved every 2nd of her. All of those little comedy quirks she was doing. It's really brilliant, isn't it? Because just the way... I mean, I just think that, you know, it's it's the Doctor Who thing, right? that the villain isn't a bad guy, because the villain at least thinks there's something wrong with the status quo. Did you see Doctor Horrible sing-along blog with Neil Patrick Arrons? It's really good. Nathan Fillion and Neil Patrick Harris. And it's the thing, the villains, the villains are opposed to the status quo. And, you know, she's growing in like alphabet is in a situation where Oz is being like kind of overtaken by creeping fascism and she's a villain in that context. You know, like awful kids, that shez as well. And that brilliant sequence in the middle. I couldn't believe how well it was done where she's doing the weird dance. And then Glenda decides to do the weird dance as well because she's coming then Bowen Wang and those... Everybody else. Oh, this is in now, is it? Even though they were being patronising shits about it just moments earlier. Ah, no, so so good. Yeah, so good. I didn't even realise that was the fella from Time Heist. had no idea. Mark told me afterwards and I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. from time ice. Well, he's done... He's the main guy. He was channelling his inner Rupert Emory, didn't you think? I think he literally was. Well, he came in, that character, he came in apparently and just said, all right, canonically this character is A English and B bisexual and fuck it. Oh, great. Because he's very gay. He has sex with Phoebe Waller Bridges, his character in Phoebe Wallerbridge's character has sex in series 2 of Broadchurch. It's like he's in Broadchurch. That's where I 1st saw him and he's adorable in that. Like, I think he's a little reporter or something. Um, and, and I think Phoebe Wallerbridge is like part of... I just remember being good in time highs, but not that, not that memorable. It was just a... And he's got a little puppy fat in timeized, and now he's like shredded as fuck because he appeared shirtless in Bridgerton for a whole season and stuff. So he's ridiculously ripped and sort of terribly hot and stuff. They just gave every creative choice in that movie. perfectly. Like, I just was like, this is, I can't find a flaw in this. It's the perfect length. The perfect actor. It's wonderful. So, Calvin and I went down to Melbourne to see it because I I think we may have seen it twice. It didn't come to Sydney originally. Sydney's theatres aren't as good as Melbourne's, and so sometimes we don't get things, and so every so often we'd fly down to Melbourne. It's like a less than an hour flight. And Melbourne's nice, like it's some cooler than Sydney. It's a little bit more, like everyone's better dressed. It's just kind of nice. It's where Cameron. I would never go there then. Oh, terribly. Yeah, I dress terribly too. That's fine. So they look at you. You're not from around here, are you? It's really nice. And so we went down there and went and saw it. And I have no memory of it. It made no impression at all the musical. I just didn't... Yeah, I saw her in London. I really loved it. And then sort of, I, there's 3 songs. I love. So I added them to a music playlist. So they come around all the time and that's, what is this feeling popular and defying gravity? So I know those songs inside out and back to front. Yeah, because they always turn up. And I was just like, okay, I said to them on the way. I said, if they ruin those 3 songs. Oh, and they just were great. And did you hear about Ariana Grande? They said to her, we want to do a modern punky version of popular? And she said, no. She goes, don't you dare? I will not do this movie if you do that because I've wanted to play Glinda my entire life and it's those songs that I love and it's those songs that everybody loves and they were going to do this sort of like really hip version of popular and she just said no. Well, in fact, because remember the, you know, the original actor who plays Glinda... Yeah, yeah. No, no, no. No, the original one who played Glinda in the Wizard of Oz. like in the movie, the Wizard of Oz. Um, you know, has that sort of um, vibrato, you know, like horrible uh, soprano vibrato that is so weird sounding and she does it. occasionally does it and certainly kind of, um, like, uh you know, refers to it. I think it's so great because that's the other thing too, isn't it? She is playing just the ridiculously privileged white woman. Oh, well. Like, like, it's so, it's so terrific. Like, and the race thing works incredibly well as well. Having alphabet played by just a black woman. Like it just works so well. Oh, God, I knew I was going to love her, but she comes down in her bubble at the beginning. And then she's like, yeah, well, I've got all this work to do and she makes the bubble walk in and they're like, hey, didn't you weren't you friends with her once? She's like, sorry I can't hear you through the bubble. Hang on. I'll just pop it again. I was like, oh, yeah, this is I've got it. I've got it right. That's great too, isn't it? That musical that starts off with nobody mourns the wicked. And, you know, like, it's ding dong the witch is dead. like the most memorable song from the original film, and they kind of go, no we're doing this differently, but with the same sentiment. Please in the 2nd one, though. Can they just put it in that? I love from Wizard of Oz. You know, when she's peddling on the bike? The evil da da da da da da I think there's gonna be more... I think there's going to be more Wizard of Oz in the 2nd film. Calvin bought me the book as well, and I never ended up reading it and now I kind of want to, because all of that talking animal stuff is obviously not in the musical because how do you do that on stage? Mark's got like a big Finnish version that they did, the audiobook. Um, and it's good cast as well of Wizard of Oz. Um, Yeah, I don't know why. They did some random, very random things early on. But yeah, he said we'll watch that. Listen to that even. Well, I've read the book, The Wizard of Ours, a few times, and it is super weird. Like, it's fucking weird that with L. Frank Bourne, was it... Absolute crackpot. Um, yeah. Um, yes, very most crap. not crazy. Yeah, no, but this was sort of crazy in a particular American turn of the century kind of way. Um, all about health and special underclothes and things like just a fucking weirdo.