The Survivors

Hey, Joe. Hi. So, we are back at what is very nearly the beginning of my experience of Star Trek, the franchise. We're doing early Star Trek, The Next Generation, and it's series 3, episode three, The Survivors, which goes out on the 9th of October, 1989. And so, we had a rough year one, a pretty dreadful year too affected by the rider strike, and this is where Star Trek finally pulls it together and becomes the thing that we remember it being. Right here. I think. I think this episode is where the gear goes up or how do you describe it? The ceiling raises. You know? Or the floor goes up. I can't remember what best 4 you use now. But yes, I think this is the point where Star Trek Next Generation goes from being a rather embarrassing copy on the original series to actually trying to find some kind of an identity for itself. I do think that evolution and ensigns of command, which are the 1st 2 episodes of series 3, are more like this than they are like series 2 or series one. Problem with those 2 is, though. I think evolution is completely shipbound. So it's doing the sort of included a lot in series 2 and the instance of command features the colony set, which obviously would go on to guest star in many an episode to come. But it does feel like a bit of a cheapie. I feel, I think the biggest indication is that we've gone outside for the 1st time. Yes. Well, we used to, we did it once in series two. And you and Picard rode a horse, but actually we're on location and it suddenly feels like production levels. And interestingly, what comes with that writing and directing levels are all taking a little shift in the right direction. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is written by a guy called Michael Wagner, who does a sort of stint of 5 episodes or so at the beginning of series 3, but ultimately, I think isn't kind of a fit for the show. And then... He's involved as sort of co-executive producer in the 1st 5 or so. I think this is the only one that he gets a sort of onscreen writing credit for, but I'm not entirely sure. And it's directed by Les Landau, who has been sort of 1st assistant director for a couple of years and just goes on to have a massive Star Trek career. One of those entries in memory alpha where you just have to keep scrolling that he's done so many episodes. yeah. I think he does an enterprise. Like he lasts for quite a long time on the show. And it's just kind of competently done. And I tell you what, just going out on a lawn, like they go to a house in Malibu or something, like that's all they do. There's a lawn and a house exterior. It's so refreshing house. It's so good Like I kind of understand why they don't do it very often because, you know, do we want to do endless quarries? How do we make outside look like a space thing? Like all of that's clearly a problem and it's a problem the original show had as well. But this show is really reluctant to go outside in a way that the original show wasn't always. And gosh, it makes a difference. It's just one scene or or 2 scenes. In order for this episode to work, you have to go outside, I think to show the contrast between that sort of blasted heath of a planet and the lush, they couldn't pull it off as an indoor phone I don't think. And actually there's a scene in the middle of the episode where they're clearly shooting it at dusk and there's this sort of golden haze to everything. It just looks so visually interesting compared to the boring indoors outdoors that they normally do. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, like these days, they do use the studio sets still don't they, for planet exteriors that actually happened last week. But of course, they're much better at creating visually striking planetary surfaces in the studio, just because they've got the effects wall and stuff. But even so, going outside, you get vistas and horizons and skies and all sorts of things and the cameras freer to do stuff than it is normally. And so it makes a real difference, I think, here. So insane, though, right, with it, like, step back from it for a 2nd about how unusual it is for Star Trek to be shot on location. Like every other show on television ever shoots on location all the time. Yeah. But I mean, the difficulty is that they're trying to be the 24th century. And so they're pretty limited in the kinds of locations that they work, that sort of thing. you know, to plantation, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But it really, it really works. This has only 2 sort of major guest stars as well. Excellent, I think. I think they are both excellent. They're playing botanists in their 80s, but they're actually much younger than that. And that was the most shocking thing in the memory alpha article which is that Anne Haney, who plays Rashawn Uxbridge, is 55 years old. when we're shooting this, which is the same age that I am recording this. Imperceptible. Oh my god. Oh my god. So they're both really great. Oh, she is especially good. Oh, she's, you really have to feel for her. And you really have to feel her on that bit at the end on the enterprise. When Picard goes up to her, says, you know what? You're not real. Yeah, but she also like makes it clear why Kevin fell in love with her as well. And all of that is just sort of tremendously good. And so what we have is what I like about Star Trek, which is it's just a procedural. There's a mystery to be solved. There's no real attempt at world building here at all. None of the races like the Dowd. I said that I thought they got mentioned at the end of Discovery series 4, but I might be wrong about that. And then the Husnock, who get mentioned there the other alien racer get mentioned. They never get mentioned again either. So we're not world building. We're not creating, you know, a galaxy for this to take place. It's all right. We can't go to worlds that have their own history that we actually just start by one time and then never mention again. Otherwise, we're going to be juggling 500 empires by the end of the series, you know? Well, that's right. And in fact, it would be nice if that happened a little bit more often. And that's what I think this is. Before the spinoffs happen. When you've just had 2 Star Trek shows, the original series including the animated series, I guess, and then this, where the premise is, the enterprise goes to a place and a space thing happens and they solve it and then they go away. There's no real need for world building. And what both shows do is some world building as they have, you know, recurring guest stars and shows have sequels to other shows and stuff, particularly in Next Jan. It starts to build the map doesn't it? Exactly. And then stick in tent pegs of certain empires that we're going to go back to, but the rest are all one shot wonders. And then because Deep Space 9 in particular, Voyager less so because they carve out a space on that map that Star Trek the Next Generation has drawn, they very much happened in a sort of pre existing environment and they populate an area. You know, they are doing world building. And that's great. You know, that's what makes Deep Space 9 possible. steals the map doesn't it? Right, we're having that, and we're going to rub all that out and we're going to add some more detail. Exactly. And particularly since space 9 continues running after the parent show has finished, and because they move Voyager out of Deep Space 9's way, so it's allowed to do all of that sort of politics and stuff, and it does exactly take over the map that Star Trek the Next Generation draws. But here, the other story that I thought of was Dharmok, where there is a space mystery, and the Tamarians never come up again until lower decks, where they come up as a gag, you know? And there's something about that that I like. This is the Star Trek that I wanted to watch when I was sitting down to watch Star Trek in the very late 1980s and early 1990s, I think. I can see why I love this. I think this is the point where I fell in love with the next generation. And I said to you on our chat bread, I felt watching this this morning, that sort of 1st time Frisson that I felt the 1st time I watched this, and I think it's because it's such a simple, but vivid premise, and I don't think they've really, the only other time, no, that hadn't come yet. Best of both worlds was the other time where I really, you know when they go down onto the planet and there's huge craters there the whole colony. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's something you can so easily wrap your head around. But it's such a great mystery of like, why the hell is this square of grass and this house, this completely destroyed planet? And I think if it's not like the most sophisticated bit of writing we've ever seen, I think it does unpick the mystery at a good pace with some surprises and some good twists. So I can see why I was totally beguiled by this. I think sort of somewhere inside of me when I was, how old would I have been when this came out? What year did this come out? 89. So I would have been 9 years old when I watched this. Yeah, probably 10. I hope we got a little bit later. I actually felt, my God, this is really good, whereas I would have been watching the next generation and going, it's all right, you know. My appreciation for it was on the rise. Yeah. Well, what do you think? Should we go in? Yeah, why not? It's so lovely to be able to say lovely things about 90 Star Trek after we've been a bit mean lately as well. Yeah, I agree. This is the Star Trek we fell for. This is this is the romance. This is. Yeah, that's exactly right. All right, here goes. Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off. Oh, establishing shot via surprise. The same shot. You totally didn't do a bottle shot every week. Yeah, pretty much. Oh, I mean, immediately, do you not feel comforted off to a colony planet, you know? Because I was walking around the bridge going, hmm. I wonder what we're going to find here, number one. It's very staid. Like, I understand the the complaint that original Trek fans had about next generation, that it was very wordy and not very action oriented, and there is a whole heap of just sort of standing around. But this is what I tuned into, these people doing their jobs. Now, here is Deanna in this outfit for the 1st time. Oh, for the very 1st time. What, that blue outfit? Oh, I like it when Captain Jellicoe comes on and it goes, uh counsellor, I prefer a bit more formality in my British career members. Get a Starfleet uniform on. I think that the camera does spend a lot of time looking at her breasts. That could have been me. I'm not sure. I'm not sure whether it was a camera or me. I'm not sure what I was saying about you. I think Dr. Everly looks great though in her uniform and her hair nice and short. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. Although in a minute, right? She goes down, um, there's a there's a number of wonderful tracking shots going down corridors in this sort of low angle ones and Dr. Beverly is going down there and Games McFadden could not be more robotic delivering this expiratory dialogue to Patrick Stewart. Well, we said it a 1000000 times, hadn't we? Yeah, when she's given real things to say, she says in a realistic way. And when she's given Star Trek exposition... Weird robot stuff to say. Suddenly the ring data. Yep. Wesley as well. Yeah, yeah. So, and they're getting to sit up now because it's series three. I don't know when they made that change. It's nice to see. Uniforms. It's a lot nicer than the old ones. Have you noticed? Yep, yep. A bit more relaxed. Although, I don't know what that is on Picard's right breast there. It's like his fags, is it? Like he's got a bag of fags. I've got to get through this chute somehow. It's like a radio mic or something. I don't quite know what that is. It's an alarmingly protruding nipple. Yeah, maybe. But that's a great visual, isn't it? Like, that's a really, really good visual. It's a really striking thing. in realms on another way. The only thing that's left. Well, I think in a minute. the fabulous matte painting they do. And then it scans across to the location work. All right, it maybe it's not as sophisticated as it would be now obviously, but it's arresting. It's an arresting image. Yeah, I remember being like, I can't tell. I'm not sure whether I'm watching the old effects or the new effects. But this seems sort of sympathetic with whatever we had originally. It's funny. The dialogue does say that the house is directly in the middle of the square, but clearly that's not what we actually see. I think that sourcer section is a bit top heavy. Well, it doesn't have to land or anything. It would fall over if it lands. I was just hoping to never design a plane like that, would they? just sort of go straight over. It doesn't need to be aerodynamic because it's in space. And as you keep reminding me, it's not in fact real. There aren't a 1000 people, you know. In fact, it's probably too aerodynamic, to be honest. You know what I mean? All those smooth curves and stuff like that. It doesn't need to be that aerodynamic. It could look like a cyber truck and it would still go through space. It'd be fine. Here we go now. The title sequence is still going on. Are those top sequences of Kurtzman Trek this long? Yeah, yeah, yeah, because they've got about 32 executive producers to list. They fill the screen with pretty images, you know? Yeah, we're well destructed nowadays. Well, this is just a remount of the 60s Star Trek titles, isn't it? It's just the spaceship keeps coming at you over and over again. Now, is this map shot in a minute? Is it enhanced? Have they done something new to it for the... I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, no, I don't know. Oh, this is typical Troy. She goes, I'll sense there's something wrong here. It's something's not quite right. No, sorry, I can't give you anything more than that. She goes. And she's empathic, but she can apparently detect people from like 100s of kilometres away as well. Like, she said earlier, I know, it should be, I should be able to feel them by now. There's no one on the planet I should be able to sense that. That's all sort of shift given what the script needs her to do from week to week. You know, sometimes it's when they beam in. Other times it's when they're on the planet. So we need to establish that she has the powers here. Yeah, that just looks like a map painting, doesn't it? painting. I appreciate it. Yeah. No, no, I agree. And there's something like there's a little bit where they sort of beam them in that just amazing. The camera's moving as they transport. You can actually see if you look close to which, but it's the real grass. They're outside. There are trees and grass. You can see the act is visibly relaxing, you know? My God, fresh air. Yeah, yeah. Oh, just the lighting and everything. It's so nice seeing them in the sun. It's just terrific. And what's about to happen now? I think it's really absolutely superb. Like, it's really broad. But it puts them definitely in that location. You know, they're not just standing around as usual. You know how rarely this sort of managers to do action. But this, he walks over to knock on the door, which also fantastic. And then the trap gets noticed. And then that, which is so great. smacks into that pole. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And now he's hanging upside down for the rest of the scene and he's absolutely not bothered. Like, he's not even remotely put out. And, you know, like he doesn't, you know, not even his voice changes. It's wonderful. I just want you to look at the trees swaying in the background there, right? Just focus on that for a 2nd and how natural it is today is. Now, next time we go into stock forest set number 58. Watch the trees in the background there as they sort of wiggle them about a bit. Actually, look out the window like later on when we're inside the house. Why didn't we look out the window? too badly done, though. No, but it, yeah. But I think having seen the real outside helps to sell that, I think. We're so easily pleased Having seen the real outside. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think maybe and smoked quite a lot. It may have become the longest running joke on UTSP, you know. So we're establishing now there was this great spaceship that blotted out the sky, came along and destroyed everywhere, but they've got no clue why they have survived. And one of the things that this show can't do because it doesn't want to be about that is that it can't illustrate how traumatised they are. So she's actually really kind of, you know, charming and happy. Have some tea. You know, she seems kind of unaffected by it. And I think that there's a good in story reason for that. And it may be one of the things that they could have lampshaded. Like why is Rashon not more upset than she choosing to remember her as delightful where she ever was. So it doesn't in story, it makes sense. But from our point of view, in this scene, we're like, okay. No, but the characters don't notice that that's weird. And I think, you know, one of the things that this show doesn't do is that it doesn't actually do the thing where we see the stuff affecting the characters. And that's a problem. Do you know what I mean? We don't actually see any of this stuff that happens affecting any of the characters emotionally. We do get Troy. Do you know what I mean? But no one else is affected by it. And I think that that's the difference. That's the missing beast here. I think this is a wonderful mystery, but and all of our characters are just their jobs and no one's affected emotionally by what happens here. And that's not true of Dharmok, for instance, you know, the show can still be liked, this can still be a procedural, but have more character stuff. What about this interior? Because they're scared. I really like this interior. It feels like it's going way off, doesn't it, in another direction? It means there's some depth to the set as well. It's not just a 4 wall set. Exactly. It's not the tiny corner of the set that they're shooting in. It's a decent size sand. And so they do go to the effort of building that window with plants outside. So it does feel like the inside of that house. Although you were mean about the window in the masterpiece society I have to say. Yeah, but no. Yeah, that's because they were putting dreadful special effects in the window. Yeah, now look at this. Look at this. The music box is beautiful. And I think it was the Deanna Troy side of this episode that really got me when I 1st because I think she plays the pain of hearing that music really, really well. I actually think it's a little bit much. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, well, I'm going to play this music box music for you for the next 10 years and see how hysterical you get. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I like the bit where she goes. It's it's real. That's right. I think it's fun. Do you know what I mean? But I think it is a bit much. I mean, look, props are giving us how to do, all right? Let's give him that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I really like how they're foregrounding that in this scene. And it's them dancing later on. We will see them actually dancing. It does kind of make sure that we know as the audience that they're causing it somehow. It's for a reason, isn't it? Obviously, he doesn't want her to read him to realise, yeah. Yeah, he's alone on the planet and she's fake. I did notice a ceiling in that set as well there for a second. I know we're pointing out all of these sort of production things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We don't see that very often either in 90s direct. No. There it is. Yeah, look behind them there. So the one thing in this scene that I thought was really good which is the only thing that we do to kind of emphasise the loss that Rashon feels is where Rashon says, oh, we have lovely tea here on Rana, it grows wild all over the forests and then over the veals or whatever, and then she realises what she said because it doesn't anymore. And I thought that was really good and it wasn't dwelt on, you know, like it was like a nice little moment, I thought. Oh, look at this. They're all around the observation lounge table. Yeah, all trying to fix together the mystery of this. Yeah, yeah. But then we saw a cup to Troy every now and again looking a bit discomfited. I've got to say, uh, my other half did come in at this and stayed with me for 5 minutes, watched quite a few counsellor troy scenes and left the room laughing his head off. Yes. I think I get that. I do get that. One of the interesting things about this. Watch, watch, Jonathan. Like, Jonathan, like, delivers dialogue that is directed at Picard like here. He doesn't properly turn and look at Picard and deliver the dialogue. concerned about her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yes, I don't know why they can't survive for longer, though. Like they don't like a colony. Like, why don't they have replicators? I don't know what's happening here. like whatever. Okay. And then he goes, what is it? No, we don't want your replicators and shit. I love it. She goes. No, we do. Shut up. Yes. She's so wonderful. She's absolutely someone that I would be in love with for 50 years. She's brilliant in this, but I think she's even better in the season one, DS9 episode back to where she plays the judge at Dax's trial and has the line. I intend to be here until supper, not senility. Look at this. That's a nice trick, yeah. It's really good, isn't it? It's very good. I think I think in 3 they said, come on, we can do better than this. Let's up our game. Well, and also we've got this set. Look at how long that corridor is. You know, I wish Michael sold this better. This, like, I love Michael in this. I love when he goes up to Kevin Uxbridge and says you had a lot of gall, you know, menacing us with a phase that didn't work and he goes, I admire gall. And like he smiles and stuff like they're starting to work out. I start to realise there's comics. comedy potential. Later on, he goes, nice tea. Yeah, he's drinking. No, doesn't he say your big house? Nice tea. Oh, here she goes. Please make it stop. Oh, yeah, yeah. She's just a little bit too pathetic, I think, is the problem. Oh, you heard that tune though? That tune is pretty rough. That's it. I'm like, how should you know? Just keep up appearances, she brushes her hair very quickly before Picard walks in. I like Picant going in to see that she's okay too, rather than Beverly, you know. I think that's one of the biggest strengths in this show, though is that that sort of familial relationship that everybody has and how everybody is concerned for each other. We said before. Yeah, but it's No, go on. Yeah. No, it's not discovery. Do you know what I mean? They don't all love one another in the way that Discovery, the crew of Discovery do, but it is, you know, it is collegial and professional, but they do like one another and they work well together. Look he's so charming in this scene. I love the way he tries to offhand, he goes, well, we all have that melody that won't go away, Council Troy. No, don't worry. Yeah, and what's good here too, is that she doesn't, like, this isn't a thing about her just bullshitting them and lying. Like that's how she thinks she's going to play it when Picard comes in. Do you know what I mean? She's combing her hair. She's decided she's just gonna, you know, and then he comes and expresses sympathy and she just tells him the truth. This is intolerable. I can't. The only thing, like there's the 2 plots going on, isn't it? There's this. her hearing the music and then there's the mystery on the planet. Obviously, the 2 of them are... We kind of know that, but we don't know that yet. Well, we do because the music in the music in the... But the problem with these scenes is it's just the same thing over and over again. We cut back to Troy. She hears the music. She's in a lot of pain. And there's no development of that plot. She's just, it's just, whereas the other plot. is constantly changing, there's a little cat and mouth with the ship, you know the mystery's deepening. We get answers, all that happens with the Council of Troy players. We get to the end and he comes along and goes, well, the music's gone. I'm with, you know, as a B plot, it's a bit redundant. But I do like, I do like Dr. Beverly trying to find different ways to make a, effectively, at one point she goes, I'm going to put her in a coma. It's the only way we should... That's right. So it's come back. Now, why has it come back now? Um, it's come back in order to get, oh, yeah, see this, see, this doesn't sort of fully land, I reckon, because he stakes his reputation on the, on the ship not being there and he's right. And it should be, I don't know. Part of the other problem with this is this doesn't work because Picard plays his card so close to his chest. And because he won't reveal what he thinks is happening until the very end because that spoils it as a mystery for the audience. He truly knows until very near the end. No. But, like, he's got a hunch that they're being pushed away obviously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he should be suspicious already, I think, or should have said something like the, the fact that he's not angry at, um, you know he's not particularly annoyed at wharf who has staked his reputation on the ship not being there anymore. And now here the ship is. You know, he's scanned really thoroughly. He makes some remark about how thoroughly he's scanned. You know, Picard should be noticing that that's odd. Do you know what I mean? Like, rather than just letting him be embarrassed and stuff. What I did like was as these encounters with the ship increased Picard's sort of reaction to the danger in the verted commas got more relaxed and his line delivery, he was like, wow, yes, you know, Racer Shields, Mr. Mr. Riker. Yeah, yeah. You know, he's playing it in a very knowing way. Say something. You would say something. I suppose they're trying to hold back the twist as late as possible. Of course they are. Yeah, yeah. In order to make the mystery work and that's fine, but it just doesn't quite work. There's Geordie. 2nd cameo. But I love the way that he delivers that kind of, that, it's like we're cutting to Geordie somewhere else in the studio, you know what I mean? And now across to our engineering expert, Jordy La Forge. and we cut to him and we get his little thing and then we cut away and I love that. It's so telly. It's so televisual. you know, you don't do it in a movie. It's absolutely a television move, I think. You've got the director time yet, right? Three seconds. That's contract or obligation. I love his lips. Yeah, I know I keep going on about them, but... Yeah, he's a handsome man. Yes, and then... Well, another thing I did notice, you know, was during the sequences with the spaceship, they're doing that sort of dun, dun dun, dun, dun, dun, music, which, you know, we said it's a bit bland, but back in the day when I 1st listened to this, I used to love all that sort of battle music. Yeah, look at this. This has been shot at the end of the day, isn't it? Look at look at the sun. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. It's really golden, golden hour. It's beautiful. And it, you know, it's, it is an idyllic little setting, isn't it? I'd love a garden. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, he's clinging onto a vision of what they had. I think it's really well done. Yeah, yeah. But I love her. Do you know what I mean? Like it... Well, we like lucky women. Don't worry. Yeah, no, but I've never turned anyone away from this house and I'm not going to start now. And you kind of think, yes, good for you. That's why he loves you. Please. Oh, do anything. Yeah, yeah come on. Oh, come on. Just handle it a little bit more, you know, bravely. The camera moving and all of that, like the way that that scene was directed, you know, like to emphasise, and even this, where she's kind of not properly in frame. You know, like she's not addressing the camera, she's sort of turned away from it and stuff. Like all of that stuff is really pretty good. Um, It's nice to hear. Yeah, as well, what it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they've decided not to use the sick basset because that's a bit more boring and boring how much slap she's got on her face there. Yeah, I know. It's a very light, light lipstick. And this is sort of Beverly's heavy blusher period. Look at her cheek. Yes, yeah. I like pawn today in Sick Bay. I better put a big horse back on. I mean, by the time you get to DS9, it calms down a lot, right? Kira and Max. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. that's true Oh, I love this. I did like this backstory about how, you know, she met him. And within 2 hours, she proposed to him. She close to him. Yes, I laughed out loud, actually, at the surprise there. I thought it was lovely. I thought it was so great. Sorry, look out that window. That's not bad. As TNG goes, that's not what. That is. Maybe that is. What is that? Let me just look. got some depth to it, isn't it? I don't know. It can't be. They can't have shot indoors, surely. Oh, there you go. He went, he went, nice house. Nice tea. Oh, yeah. Yeah, because that window does look like the window on the outside and I don't know, I can't even tell anymore. How about that? I'm so used to them never going outside. They only had a single day, believe, though. One quote on memory acid, they had one day outside in Malibu. So there's no way they shot the whole thing in a day. No, no. Yeah. Yeah. That is pretty good. whatever's going on there. No, notice there's no wind at all. So it is pretty good though. Look at how, isn't it? Like manhunt, yeah, was what, 3 episodes, 4 episodes from the end of series two. This is only 3 episodes into series three. And look at how visibly relaxed Patrick Stewart is. Yeah, yeah, in comparison. Yeah. I think I think between 2 and three, he actually went, this is going to run. I'm going to put some effort into this now. That's right. If this wasn't defeated by the rider strike, and if it was still renewed after series one, I think I'm stuck here for the next, you know, the next 5 years or whatever. It's just so different about his voice as well. in one and two. He's doing this sort of clipped very in his voice. And now it's just, it is just a... Well, you know, who watches the watches comes after this and his performance in that is... Incredibly good. And another great story where they go outside a lot as well, which really benefits from it. All of this stuff is so interesting, isn't it? That's the other thing too. Like he is actually speaking to Kevin. He's thinking aloud. You know something about you has to be different for you to have survived this. I like I like the randomness of him saying the colour of your eyes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I also like this stuff too about pacifism. So he says I'm someone of special conscience and Picard says that's your protected ride. So legally you can't be forced to fight in the Federation is what we're learning, which seems reasonable, that the Federation respects people who are conscientiously are unable to agree to fight. Um, And it, and something happens, like that's interesting. That's super interesting, I think. Um, and we don't quite know why yet. I like the fact that Picard says to her, what about you, Rashawn? Because until that point, we're only worrying about his reaction to the conflicts. And it's almost pointing the finger saying he's the only character here, how he feels, what he thinks about fighting is what's important. But actually, shifting the focus on the obstacle, though. Yeah, he is the obstacle though, and she seems to be kind of willing to allow him to be, but yes, yeah, I think it does foreshadow what we discover about her. I don't think when I 1st watched this, I don't think at one point I didn't think she was, I thought she wasn't real. I absolutely thought she was a real person and that the 2 of them were keeping some big secret. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, this does cheat a bit as well. Like, this isn't this isn't a fair play mystery in the sense that you could have worked this out. There was enough here for you to work it out. And part of the thing is that because Star Trek can help itself to omnipotent alien entities. Do you know what I mean? Anything could be real. Like, literally anything could have happened. And so that's that is what we get here. So it's not quite a mystery in the sort of proper sense of the word where you play along at home. When we watch Remember Me, where all the pieces were there for you to be able to figure out what was going on to Dr. Beverly and that. I think maybe they got better at telling these sort of stories. Yeah, that's right. There's that moment, isn't there? if you're paying attention and if you remember it, you actually notice that she goes into the warp bubble. But the direction was complicit with the mystery as well and remember me. Yes, that's right. That's right. Whereas here they're sort of learning how to do it. They're doing a good stab. Oh yeah, look, I agree. I agree. So, um, Jama gave these 4 stars out of four. What do they give who watches the watchers? Oh, I didn't check actually. I didn't look. But see, because, and I think this is it, we've sort of said this before, Jammer likes this kind of Star Trek. It likes a procedural Star Trek. And this is very well done procedural. It's not perfect. It's not there yet. Do you know what I mean? It's not there yet, but it's really good. It's just well done. It does Star Trek the Next Generation things and it does them well because it's so much better than what we've had already. I think that's why I give this a huge pass. Because this is the point where they're saying what we've done isn't good enough. No, but it's amazing because I do think that the previous 2 episodes are, that's also evident, even though there's problems with, um, you know, the guy, the main, the main guest guy in, um evolution. No instance of command, the main guest guy in Ensigns of Command is dubbed the entire way through. Really? And you can absolutely tell. They didn't like his voice and they couldn't reshoot or recast and so they got someone else to do his dialogue. Fabulous bloke from scrubs. You know, that really obnoxious doctor from scrubs and evolution. But the bit where I realised they'd learned to chill out a bit was the bit where the nanites were all over the ship and Picard goes you know, raised the shields and suddenly a brass band starts going, da, da, da, da, da, and the camera goes right in his face and he's like, what is going on? Well, that's this one too. Do you know what I mean? Like this is much more serious, I think. But this is camp. Do you know what I mean? Like there's a the sound of a music box is going through her head. That's... I do like how they're playing it for real. I know. I mean, I think maybe that's why I liked it because it's so discordant. It's such a weird thing, isn't it? The music box. Yeah, yeah, yeah. torturing her. But because it's played for real, I think that's why I was so invested in all of this. Now you're right. It is, it is a bit camp. He is sharing something with Beverly here, though. Like, he definitely suspects Kevin and Rashon, and he thinks that they might be behind the spaceship arriving. I like the cuts are Commander Riker every single time because he says it about 4 times in this. Then take us back to Rana and Raka's like, oh, God's sake. Back and forth, back and forth. We're on our bus service, you know. Well, you know, the last time, and he goes, wait an hour, and then take us back. Is that just to give Deanna Troy a bit of respite? You know, as they get further away from the planet? Here's what I complained didn't happen. Forget your era, wharf. There's no way that you could have prevented it. So he doesn't, he doesn't explain. Do you know what I mean? He doesn't tell anyone. Um, but... Um, actually, he's, he said there. I think it thinks it's runners off the good. So yeah, he does know. Yeah, doesn't he? Yeah, he knows, but he's not properly explaining it's protecting it responds to their wishes. He said indirectly or directly. I'm not sure So he's not sure if it's being done. So he is being more, he is being more upfront with them than I thought, but there does come a point in the episode where he just seems to be perversely kind of not giving them information. where they're dancing around the house. No, no, I mean, it's terrible dancing. But then he says, oh, do you have a reason to celebrate? You thought we were gold, you know? Suddenly he's playing a few psychological games with them. Oh, he has a dig at them later for dancing as well. Like there's some line where he says he sneeringly refers to it again. This is the 2nd time you've shown surprise at my appearance. I mean, if there was ever going to be an actor, I would trust with a better pretence like this, is Patrick Stewart. To keep the line a double meaning, you know? Yeah, he's good. He's probably good. Well, I think he, I think, like I said earlier, he's realising that actually this could be good television, if he puts his heart and soul into it, because I really don't think he was with those 1st 2 years. No, this is a bit of a stupid line, isn't it? Like he just says, oh, well, the ship will just stay here for the rest of your lives. Do you know what I mean? It's just like, oh, okay, so you're gonna stay here for years, are you? Is that the plan? You know, Rashon's only 55? Like, you know, they could be here for a while. Um, But, yeah. It's just not 55... Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's Kevin. I like her reaction to all this though, where she's really sort of perturbed. Was she, like, neither of them likes seeing the other one upset which I think is really good. Like he says, I don't like seeing my wife frightened and she keeps saying to him, stop hurting my husband, you know, like he, and I guess that kind of works, doesn't it? It, like, if at this point we think it's both of them. We think it's both of them, don't we? Yeah, like, your twist is that it's not. That's the twist now. And like you said, I don't think at any point you would know that you could figure out that he was the only person there that she isn't real. So maybe we needed a few more hints, but given how TNG generally hints towards the Twist. What about this question? What about this question? If she was in danger, would you kill to save her life and he says no, I would. wouldn't. And so that's when Picard concludes because she said that she doesn't share his pacifism, you know, but she decided to stay and not fight because he didn't want her to or because she was, you know, she wanted to be with him or something. That's a lie. He is representing her character, as she was. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the lie the lie is, of course, that she did go off and fight and get killed. And he's not lying. He wouldn't kill to prevent her death. He didn't. Did he? He just lost his shit for a moment after she died. Watch out an entire species. 500000000 people. It happens when you get angry. Yeah, I know. We've all had days like that Is he my imagination or is that bridge set a bit darker than usual? I think they do change the way that it's lit in series 3. And I think that we end up with much, much more even key lighting. Like, I think it's actually not an improvement. I do think that the direction is generally better in series 3, but the lighting is much less interesting. For some reason. We still got Ron Jones in there, like, sort of music, still doing good things. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And he's scoring a big spaceship coming up towards the, uh, coming up towards the viewscreen. He's having fun. A spaceship looks terrible, mate, doesn't it? It looks like a better Lego. I actually think that what we're watching is the new version. Yeah. Well, I just think they had far, far fewer shots available to them that they could actually achieve. And so this shot from behind and stuff like that, that's not there I think, in the original. I could be wrong. He gets a chance now to play these things in a fun way. just went there will be no interference from house, Mr. Data. As this ship is blasting the planet. But I think that he should be telling them at this point, don't you? Maybe you did offscreen. Or you think you should be doing it for our benefit? No, no, no, not for our benefit. That's the thing. That's where this doesn't quite work where the artifice actually isn't quite properly worked. But his delivery in a 2nd though, where he goes. Is there any reason for us to stay, number one? And Riker goes, well, no, the Uxbridges are destroyed, the ship's destroyed. Well, he goes, well, let's go then, shall we? Yeah, that's it. So he's suddenly behaving weirdly. Do you know what I mean? And that's weird because he is bathing weirdly because he doesn't say, look, I think it's just going to make us think that they're dead so that we leave. Do you know what I mean? That's what you would really do, isn't it? There's no reason for him to conceal this. I just like how it's played, though. I like how it's acted. Oh, yeah, yeah. It does mean he's bit more relaxed. Poor Wesley, like the high definition doesn't do him any favours does. Well, data either, I'm honest. That makeup. No, but Wesley has a lot of acne happening there. Oh my god, did you see that crash zoom onto Riker's face? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I look straight to the camera and goes, what's going on? The 2nd shot like that that's led to an ad break, this episode. Like that happened earlier. God, for Frank's like, yes. I'm getting all the closing shots. Now he's here saying, actually, that's all pretty dumb. Why don't you actually tell us something? Please just tell us, yeah, explain to your favourite, Richard. No, number one. I'm having too much fun here. playing hide and seek with the Uxbridges. So this is him trying to kind of justify it. Well, he says he doesn't... Yeah, but it's kind of like you can say that. Like he could say, actually, I'm not entirely certain that this is what's going on, but, you know, he could have explained this earlier. I've got to be honestly, because the idea that the 2 of them are keeping our big secret, that's really interesting, because just the whole setup of the house on the planet, that's so interesting. Like, I didn't really mind. I didn't as this episode was playing out. The plot itself was interesting. It kept me focussed enough, but I didn't care that there were some of these sort of inconsistencies going on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and that's where we learn that he thinks that it's just one survivor. Just what are the answers, you know? I'm like what is going on? Look, it's back. And what I like is when the answers come, it does make sense and it is satisfying. You know, and it's emotionally satisfying as well as the plot. Yeah, I agree. I agree. It's worth remembering, you know, we did have a lot of sort of climaxes in season one and 2 where it was just like, well, you all were a load of drug dealers and now you're going to have to deal with it. Come on, let's go, threat. But I mean here, you know, look at his boots. Look at Kevin's boots. Look at his pants. Jesus Christ. Suddenly they're in this. But one of them looks relaxed. They're all meant to buggery as well. No, I just don't think this is a set anyone feels naturalistic in it. I think Patrick Stewart plays this brilliantly, though, when he goes up to Rishon. Yeah, yeah. And it like. Like she vanishes. She doesn't come back. Do you know what I mean? Like he just dismisses her. And what do we think? Is he going back to the planet? Does he go back to the planet and live with her at the end? I don't know. Um, Yeah, see, this is hurting my husband. She's so she's so good. She's so terrific. So this is the this is the accusing scene, isn't it? We get them together and we accuse them of a crime, you know, at the end of the mystery. He's just doing a big... The Poiro reveal, isn't it? Yes, he's doing the big Poirot. We've only got 2 suspects and only one of them is real. Yeah, that's right. Yes, provided you with the only doubt that it was them. It literally takes a step by step through the plot. This is what happened. This is why I've done these things. This is what you were doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fortunately, the fella playing Kevin. He's got the chops to sell like the huge things that he's talking about in a minute about so angry when she died that he wiped out an entire species because, you know, as an actor. That's not the easiest thing in the world to sell. No, and see this, he never killed anyone, she says. Yeah, yeah. So this is where we learn that she died and where she learns as well, this version of Rashon or does he dismiss her so that she doesn't hear her? I mean, him walking away from her is quite cruel, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. He knows what's coming. The only thing I didn't like was we don't get a reaction from her. She just looks at Picard and then she just vanishes. I feel like they could have sold that moment more. I think that for her to not be real, you have to not see the reaction. Do you know what I mean? Like, if if she reacted... But she has been until this point in the episode. I know, I know, I know, I know, I know. But like having her react to the discovery that she's not real does things that we don't want to have to look into, I think. Um, And, you know, she, he's got to have lost her. He can't just have created one and everything's fine. There's still got to be a real loss there. And I like the fact that he's benevolent. He wants to go to Troy. He wants to take the music from her mind. You know, he is a good man. Yeah, yeah. And that's why that's why he's someone of special conscience, I think, because he's aware of how powerful he is and what he could do. That's why he never fights. Do you know what I mean? Because he knows that he, it's that, someone says something about it before, what is it? You know, he is, he has just killed 500000000 people, but when he comes out to confront the people invading his front garden, he does it with a phaser that doesn't work, you know, and he could that was never a thing, he could just have killed them if he wanted to, but he comes out threatening them with a phaser that that doesn't work because he is a man of special conscience because he's aware of what he's capable of, do you think? I think that works. Yeah for sure. And I even buy, it's a bit melodramatic, but I buy the fact he got so angry that he literally just lashed out in a way that only he can, with devastating consequences and as a result, you know, he is a much gentler now. Did you say that fish tank that Gianna Troy had in the wall there as they... When I was a kid, I used to think that was the height of cool. The enterprises, I've got fish tanks in the walls. Yeah, that is pretty great. That is for yours. There it is beyond Picard now, look. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. away. Sorry to come back to the set again. No, no, no. Well, we were hugely impressed by the set at the time. The cuts of Beverly Crusher there to show that she's paying attention to his story. that's right Oh bless him. Yeah, look, he's got a sort of inbuilt sadness in his face already hasn't he? Yeah, I just think his age as well. He's not in his 80s either. He's 67 at this point, but he's he looks hangdog. You know, like he looks like someone who's suffered loss. He strikes me as being that person that we talk about often in, on top, that turns up in every procedural going. always delivers a good performance like this, you know, he made a career out of doing the rounds, but delivering the goods. But this is the worst thing, isn't it? Like, it's not just that he killed them all. It's that he did it after Rashon had died. You know, like he's powerful. He could have stopped it, but he didn't. And then he did it anyway in a moment of losing control. And that's so bad. Like that's so awful. Well, it's awful thing to live with. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, it would have been bad enough if he'd killed them to save her. But that didn't even work. He didn't even do that. He just killed them as a response. And he had restrained himself. You know, he'd restrained himself for so long and then just failed. I like how he says, I wish I could have died with her. But yeah, you're right. He had 2 other options, doesn't he? He could have gone to fight and died with him. We wouldn't because he was omnipotent. No, but he could have wiped them out. You'd have saved them. Yeah, by wiping them out. Yeah, it was the worst choice all round. Yeah. But then shouldn't shouldn't he be condemned then for what he's done? Because I thought... a tragedy though, isn't it? It's not really an accusation. Well, this is more than normal Star Trek acting, isn't it? Like it's really something. Yeah, yeah. Like he's done something. Well, they can't punish him. How can they punish him? Do you know what I mean? He's omnipotent. nothing they can do. What are they going to do? Lock him up. They can't do anything. And also because he... as now to live with this forever. Do you know what I mean? Like, what are we going to do to him that's worse than that? In fact, even Gauge McFadden. She's close to tears when the camera goes back. yeah, yeah. You're going to think I'm mad. The last time I saw properly sort of restrained acting in a climax like this in somebody's quarters, was that episode of Strange New Worlds we watched? you know with the doctor and his daughter at the end. I mean, the accent was a bit better there, but... Besides, it's not hysterical though, is it? It's not over the top. No, no. Well, because he's a, because he's an old man as well. Do you know what I mean? Because he's an older man, he's not going to express his emotions. He is going to be a bit more restrained. You know, I think he's really good. I think that's bullshit, though. He goes, what? Well, unfortunately, we can't convict you because we've got no rules to actually apply to this. He's committed genify. Of course you have rules. Well, but he's not under their jurisdiction. You see, you know, he's not a citizen of the Federation, like, what is he? You could wipe us out at any minute. Don't worry, you're free to go. That, you know, like what can they do? We can't do anything. I think maybe that's a bit of weak writing rather than anything else, but I don't think that conclusion is so bad. God, compared to some, it's great. I mean, I don't think I quite need it because you have Picard and then you have Kevin both explain the entire plot to us and why everything was going on. We didn't need it twice, but just the emotion in what he was saying and the sort of the epic nature of what he's selling of what's happened. I think that it works on all those levels. I do like the final speech too, like that final captain's log is pretty good too. And then this skips into who watches the watches, which is one of the best TNG episodes ever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I really... And then, you know, you look at three. Look at a list of the episodes of season three. There is one banger after another with the occasional dud, which there's going to be in 26 episodes. Sure, sure. But this is kind of where they've nailed it, isn't it? And this is not what we would get now. You know, like Strange New Worlds is obviously the closest in Kurtzman Trek to this. And Stranger Worlds has much, much greater reliance on the characters and as much more about what they're like as people and much less about their just jobs or whatever. But this is still good. This is still properly enjoyable. That episode was 75% plot, 25% character. Whereas nowadays, we probably reverse that frustration it was wouldn't we? You'd have a good plot, but we'd be feeling stuff for the characters all the way through. Yeah, it's the plot would affect the characters emotionally, and that's not what happens much here. You do get a bit of sort of quivering restraint there from Beverly in the final scene when she hears about the genocide. You know, we get Picard sort of being a bit sad and stuff. But no one's really properly affected, whereas that's what they would do now and what they've learned to do, I think. But I think in the sort of the journey of Star Trek, that 60 year journey, there's absolutely a space for these plot heavy mystery episodes in the middle, especially when they're this vivid and this interesting. Yeah, it doesn't pull off everything perfectly. But I think it's a bloody good episode of Star Trek all the same. Yeah All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to decide what we're going to be watching next week. It's my turn with the Randomiser. and I want to give a show a chance to redeem itself. A few weeks ago, we watched Course Oblivion, which was really truly, truly dreadful, and we did try and sort of cleanse our palates by watching Strange New Worlds. But, you know, that's running away from the problem in a way. And I want to find an episode of Voyager that is going to make me happy and impressive. pressing that button until you kind of keep pressing until I get a good one. Oh, make a brew. Uncle in. Do you know, I like this one and no one else does. It's season three, episode 22, real life. Oh, God. It's so much better than course oblivion. I will not say nice things about that episode. It's very much like it's very TV. Like, it's a very TV episode. I think, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The Brady Bunch. gone wrong. Yeah. I do like the bit where Pelada Torres goes, I'm sorry, doctor, but you're not going to learn anything from these lollipops here. And like the problem is that the death of the little girl is just too overwrought and just a little bit too much, I think. Um, but otherwise, I don't think it's as bad. thinks. No, the bit that's over raw is the rebellious teenage kid that is playing on maze and they're in their bedroom playing Klingon rock. Oh, please press it again, please. I think we've rolled this before. Season six, episode 12 blink of an eye. Oh. I mean, it's a very sort of worthy Star Trek episode. But it's super interesting. They take that premise, don't they? Voyager, being in space at the early stages of this planet with early man, and they build an entire religion about it as we go through the various stages, and because Voyagers going very fast through the history of the planet and the planet's playing out at normal speed. I think that one could be worth doing. Do you remember the Orville did a version of it as well? Was it better? It was probably pretty funny. Well, I mean but it is quite a serious one. If you want to sort of have fun with Voyager, there's a lot more funner episodes than that. I'm super tempted. Let's see what happens if I press again. Projections. Series two, episode three. It's a bit crap. Oh, here we go. I think it's this. Okay. Whatever, 6 episode three. Barge of the Dead. Oh, an absolute banger. Yeah, this is Ronald D. Moore, isn't it? This is when he was involved. He didn't write... He did survival instinct, but I think he's responsible for the story and forgiven them just a bloody good Klingon episode, you know, with all the myth offs that he's built up over time. Brilliant Roxanne Dawson episode, striking imagery in this as well. Yeah, yeah, weird looking stuff. Yeah, yeah, I remember. Yeah, this is definitely worth doing. Okay, awesome. Let's do that then. Who's been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley. We're online at Untitled Star Trek Project.com where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts. Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb. This episode was recorded on the 16th of April 2024 and released on the 3rd of May. We'll see you next time for Star Trek Voyager, Barge of the Dead. What do you think? It's not controversial enough or shitty enough for us to go on about it. No, no, no, no. Do you know what? It was more of a struggle than the last couple of weeks, because it's just very good. To say things. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because it isn't doing particularly complex things with any of the regulars. No. You can't really talk about there. But it's just, it is just fun. It is what I've sat down to. Even, you know, shitty things. Like the 1st thing that my sister ever saw, like I was going on about subject, the next generation, and She watched Booby Trap, for God's sake. Do you know what I mean? No, no, what's the, is, is it booby trap? Is it booby trap, the one with the space slug that they... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was booby trapped. I said, oh, really? Okay. But it's still like, I wouldn't happily watch Booby Trap. It is crappy. Do you know what I mean? But it's, it's just, it's that raising the floor thing, you know like... Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know, because I've been listening through. It's called the Ron Jones Project on YouTube, and it's got all of this... Roger... Roger... Because I was listening to it to work out what we would do for the music to on Star Trek project before we got Cameron to do a thing. No, that was that was good. And I'm pleased because we haven't, if we have been to season three, have we? Uh, I don't know. Oh, yes, of course, yeah. Oh, yeah, that's probably all right. Yeah, I think so. But, you know, we've been talking ages. Every time we come to team gym, we talk about, you know, the tire turning in season 3 and actually, we've watched an episode, which has proven that impact. Otherwise, we'd be. Oh, we did the price. Oh that was fun. That was fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, see, that's sort of like a lower lesser episode. Yeah, but even that's not terrible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I think. this is a fun version of the show. Council of Troy at the beginning. Oh, heaven forbid I miss the wormhole. She's got like, does she have messages from her mother on the... Get me a chocolate Sunday now. Oh, God. You see, that's it. It's just like, what I want to watch. glorious. Troy goes evil episodes. I want to watch those. Yeah, that one especially. No, or the lot. Face of evil. Face of evil, face of the enemy. No, the loss is, she's such a cow in that. I love her in facing the enemy because I have no idea what I'm going through. You know what it's like to lose something you've never had. She's such a bitch. It's so good. Maybe she just he just doesn't want to hear you complaining all the time of you whining all the time. I know I am. So good. That woman, she looks so crushed. So funny. I know, but what's a shame? Do you remember her? They dial back on it. They dial back on it because then the woman comes back to her in a later counselling session in that episode and goes, no, you were absolutely right, Deanna. I wanted her to come back and say, what? You're a horrible person. Yeah, you suck. I always really mean to you. Don't be so pathetic. I mean, I do think at the beginning of this episode, all my warning bells were going off when Troy went, you know, there's something strange. Nope, I can't give you more than that. That's what I forgot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did think that it was kind of weird that she was going to, she could detect stuff from the spaceship a long distance away. Well, I think it's your choice, you know. It is my choice and I'm trying to work out what the hell I'm going to do. Because we've done some of everything lately, haven't we? Yeah, we've done a bit of cursman. We have a couple of TOSs. We did an animated series. These are the voyages, profit motive, counterclock incidents, skin of evil, obsession, tracking, tracking into the wind, trouble with Edward, matter of time. It always feels not. He's heavy, but they're so fucking much of it. That's why. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was the last voyage we did course oblivion that's coming out this Friday? Oh, Christ. I can't wait to hear that back. Oh my god. I'll probably edit it tomorrow, actually. Actually, when you start going in the middle. You know, yeah, it's called course oblivion. We know we're all going to die and it's going to be miserable. Why am I watching this? My wife, you reminding me of this? No, have you heard it back at all yet? Uh, no, just no. All I've done is I've I've processed the audio. I've recorded the credits and I've put it all into a thing. I've got... I was at work howling. The store was shut and I was just doing some like dressing of an aisle and it's just you and me going, oh. Oh, look. Oh, we're just nitching, just screaming in horror. The pressure. At one point, I'll just do a cake vulgar and go, you know, when she's in the chair. about to expire, just going, oh, God, how much of the pizza is there left to go? I can't believe people thought that was anyway acceptable. tragic. It's tragic because they all catch a disease and then die. It's like what's tragic about that? That's horrible. A good episode. It's not about Star Trek project, though. That's the one good thing that's come out of goals and living. We got a 3 episode out of it. Oh my god. Yes, there's a one way you can know this is the fake voyager because our Captain Janeway would never have carpet like that, but that rice goes. Yeah, that's it. That's it. She would have hovered. All right. All right, it's the end of the episode.