Course: Oblivion

Hey, Joe. Hi. So, we are doing what I think is perhaps the worst episode of Voyagers run. But it's a, well, it's pretty close to that. It's called Cause Oblivion. Which sounds great, right? Sounds wonderful. Yeah, it's the same course that we're all eventually on, I think. But it's season five, episode 18. It's sort of a loose sequel to Demon the previous year, and it is by the co-creator of Star Trek Discovery, Brian Fuller. An auspicious beginning. Yeah, he's learned his lesson since then, I think. And I really, really properly hate this. What do you think I hate is a strong word. No, no, I mean, accurate. Yeah, 0 yeah. I've been saying too, haven't I? I'm sorry, apathetic about this. I just have no feeling about it whatsoever. I watched the entire 45 minutes and then wondered why I had. That's how I left the episode going. Well, what was that all about? What impact does that have on anything? And I know Voyager never has any impact on anything ever. And there are no consequences in this show, but this is taking that to an extreme. Yeah, and like, I guess partly I'm embarrassed for the actors. Bless them. Because of the makeup and the scenes at the very end, and particularly Kate's makeup, which is really bad, but also Garrett and Jerry have to suffer some pretty horrific makeup as well. I think that's awful. I was confused because there were scenes where Kate Mulgrew was attempting to do a moat with, you know, great alacrity. Unfortunately, they've glued her mouth shut with this makeup. That's crazy. started talking out the side of her mouth, so I could not barely understand what she was trying to say. And they don't do it to any of the other actors. They have quite a different makeup job on. It's super embarrassing. It's Janeway's eye. It looks so awful. And so that's embarrassing. Like, I just think that's a career low. You know, like you have to think, she's saying, why the fuck am I even doing this job at this point? And so that's embarrassing. I think you did talk about this. one of those fabulous convention interviews, you know, where she is remarkably candid. Now, now the adventure's over and she can be honest and say things like if Brennan Bragger had more balls, we would have done something more interesting on Voyager and stuff like that. And she did say there was one where she had all this makeup slapped on. And it's her usual line of like, you know, they were testing my acting ability to its absolute fullest. I think this is one of the few times where she can't do it. No, yeah. No, it's dreadful. absolutely dreadful. But the other thing is, too, like, from one point of view, these characters aren't real and they're not the characters that we see on TV every week. Now, I don't find that view particularly persuasive because they're all played by the same actors and they do their shtick. In fact, the very 1st scene is absolutely dedicated to showing us that these people are the characters that we know. And so what we have is an episode where all of them catch a horrible disease and then slowly fail and die. And I kind of think, well, that wasn't fun. So what was the point of that? Like, I just don't want to watch that. That's literally no fun at all. That's absolutely fucking miserable. And I just sort of think, how am I to be entertained by this? But you remember as I was watching this last night? I'm sending you a series of questions about this going, well, all these people would duplicate it on the demon planet and none of them know how they're suddenly this much closer to Earth than the other boy, all of these questions about the premiere. I wasn't even watching the episode. I was just going, how? Why? What? Yeah. So Demon is not a highly regarded episode, but I did watch it as kind of research and I didn't think it was terrible. I thought it was was quite stupid, but the idea was very star trekky. looks more interesting than this one. Yeah, yeah. And what happens at the end is like super weird. So it's this sort of, um, they call it the silver blood in both episodes and it's, it's like mercury. It's a liquid. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that exists in a sort of armour style pool on this planet. No, I've been great. A great silver armus coming out. Yeah, that's right. So what happens is for the 1st time they encounter sentient life forms and because they can duplicate life forms, they become sentient and start to experience sentience and they experience what the world is like around them, that their planet is beautiful. They experience all of these things, and just weirdly and generously, and in a way that doesn't make a great deal of sense but whatever. Everyone on the crew decides to allow the silver blood to replicate them. It's the last shot they're all on the planet. It's they're all standing on the planet surface. Why did you go to leave? So how did we get from there to here? So we don't. And that's so that's a cheat because because the duplicate Harry and the duplicate Tom in that episode are definitely not Harry and Tom and don't think they're Harry and Tom. They have their memories, but they do know that they're from the planet and they know that they're the silver blast. And they're sort of suggested in the middle of demon, they're sort of like evil doppelgangers. I know they're not, but they're sort of... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like that's a sort of very Star Trek idea and it is very weird and it's not completely pulled off and it's a bit crap and like whatever. The sort of B movie fun. Yeah, we like that stuff. Yeah, yeah. And it's Star Treky fun because it is, you know, like there's something symbolic about them, you know, allowing this new life form to be created, encountering a life form, they've inadvertently created, and giving it, um, giving it of themselves so that they can experience one another's lives and stuff. And they're not, they're creating duplicates that sort of look like them. But what they're really giving them is the ability to think and feel and so on. And that's not what we have here in Dima. What we have is instead, somehow the silver blood is created an entire ship, that they've forgotten that they're duplicates somehow, and they're heading off into space. And like, I think there's potential, potentially an interesting idea there. The ship is made from the silver blood. And so it does say... No, in this episode. And so, so when I say it's a loose sequel to demon, it's completely inconsistent with anything that we see in demon. Because it's got to make just drive it. It was only last year, for God's sake. Yeah, I know. So, in fact, it depends on what this episode is for. And I think there's a sense in which there's a mystery here. And I was trying to think as I watched it, given that you, watching it now, we know what the premise is, right? And we've seen it before. We know what the reveal is. But at what point does a naive viewer make the decision that this isn't the crew? And is that a thing? Is part of what the episode's doing is getting you to work out what's happening here, in which case they cheat, in which case it's not a fair play mystery, because they change the premise of demon. You could never have guessed it was demon because it's nothing like what was... know the exact point. I know the point. It's that close-up on that dismal carpet that you've got behind you right there. Because our Captain Janeway would never fail to hoover her carpet. No, that's true. Oh, that's so terrible sure. It's so awful. The carpet. Thank God we don't have carpet anymore. I just want to sneeze just even looking at it. Like it's full of mites and just... The drama of the slow motion rights. Oh my god. So I think that I think what's happening here is that they're sort of gesturing towards talking about identity and there's a kind of sense in which this is going for sort of existentialism. I know that sounds fancy for something that is so shit. The gesture is so minimal. They've got nothing to say about any of that. And all they do is they use those ideas to create an episode that's just deeply unpleasant and not fun to watch. I would have had more fun with this if the crew were gone. What the hell? We're not Janeway and her crew and just behaved appallingly because they all knew they was going to die, you know? I mean, it would be miserable to watch again, but it's better than just watching them sit around, slowly having more latax slapped on their faces and just slowly dying. There's no B movie. that the script of that wasn't binned straight away. Do you know, there was a premise mooted about this, though, which I think would have been just awful if they'd have gone for it. far more watchable than this. And that is that the demon replicants end up. They get home. They get back to earth and then they start melting. So we got this great celebration, celebration, we've made it home fireworks and all of this and that boring Admiral Paris is there and everybody, you know, we love Bridge Barclays waving the flag. And then, yeah, and then we slowly realise in the true dramatic sense of irony that, unfortunately, this is not the Voyager crew and it's a load of duty because that's awful. I mean, it is awful, but imagine how fun that would be to watch compared to this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But given that we never properly get to see them come home either you know, that would be a bit tragic too. We just get to see a crap version of it. Well, look, I mean, I've got plenty to say, but maybe it's best to say it while we're watching this wretched thing. What do think? Oh, I'll just throw in one quote then before we go. Oh, okay. It's from Kenneth Miller. Um, you know, writer of many great Voyager triumph. There was a discussion about whether it was too bleak at the end. I had written a version where they actually get that time capsule out and the real Voyager does come along. The duplicate ship is gone, but they find the capsule. So, because my biggest complaint about this is at the end, where Voyager comes along and goes, well, what's that debris over there? Oh, well, guess whatever, no. resume course, Mr. Jakotay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're like, okay, so this is having no emotional impact on anybody whatsoever. But actually, I mean, I don't know how you'd play that. I don't know how that last scene would go. It was like, oh, it appears it was us. You know? But at least they could be held accountable for the decision that they made, you know, in demon or something, just something. Yeah, but even that, I mean, they make a good decision in Demon, a weirdly generous and sort of improbable decision, which I thought was kind of weird and fun and Star Trek-y. Um, so they haven't done anything wrong. It could have been like, well, you know, we never knew that they would have created their own Voyager and gone off and all died in this horrible way. Yeah, that's stupid. Well, it's all stupid. Yeah, yeah. I mean, the episode's called course oblivion, right? And so having a memorial where they're not forgotten really sells short the actual title. So they have to be forgotten. Well, see, they've already done it this year in timeless where you had that alternative voyage and it crashed into the ice and then at the end, everything resets snowball, but of course it does because the older Harry manages to get the message out. Don't go to the ice planet, you're going to crash onto it. And then he sends the message, which the younger Harry listens to in the last scene and there's some emotional resonance to the whole thing. They could have done that here. They chose not to. Yeah. No, because that's not what the episode is saying. But what the episode is saying is quite ugly, I think. And what was he trying to say? If you're all going to die, just accept it and die horribly. No, I don't I don't think that's it, but I do think that there's something to be said for the idea that course oblivion is, in fact the course that we all find ourselves on all the time right now. Oh. Yeah. Startling revelation. No, it's not a startling revelation and they don't have anything interesting to say about it. printing out 20 years ago. realise this. We all were. I refuse to believe it review. I sorry. All right. I think we're going in. Randy, in the history of Star Trek, has the title of an episode promised so much and delivered so little. Yeah, well, coarse oblivion. Sounds great, doesn't it? All right, I'll count it in. If you have to. Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off. Oh, wedding. d, d, d, d, d, d, d. Now, look, you're going to be treated, Nathan, to your favourite thing on Voyager. The banter is Garrett Wang playing the... Garrett Wang playing the clarinet. You love the sort of witty line. The character beats. Voyager. Absolutely do. Look, we've started off with Neelix. Are you sure this isn't supposed to be cooked about the rice are they thrown? That's kind of funny. And I think that, you know, like, here's the good Robert giving you know, making a pretty crappy line land and we are getting, like this scene is all about them being themselves, isn't it? So is he a hologram, the doctor? Yes, yeah. So they've managed to create the ship which has managed to create holograms. Yeah, yeah. I kind of think he emulates the technology. Yeah, and he's a meta fails. And, like, that's Star Trek. It's stupid. fine. I think that would be okay if this kind of worked. You know, what's sad is this is actually better than the actual wedding of Tom Banana Torres. I don't see the wedding. Do we? I kind of like it they go off in that car, don't I? And drive. Yeah, they go off in the Delta Flyer at the end, we've just married on the, on the, on the back, at the, at the, um, end of drive. Um, and I like that, and I think it's because we've seen this. I really like how they react to 7 catching the bouquet. I think that's really funny. Like she catches it and says, what does it mean? And I think the doctor says, oh, I'm just not going to tell you you know, that's going to upset you. No, but this is about the pain sticks. Yeah, they're saving the pain sticks for the honeymoon, says Garrett Wang. Oh, yuck. Einstein. It's a joke, and don't deliver it like a joke. No, it's terrible. I think it's really terrible. I did message you throughout this episode and say Garawag is a terrible actor. Oh yeah. But you heard that. dramatically. The thing that you... are shockingly bad. But the thing said just there, which are the worst words that you can hear at a wedding, which is the couple have prepared their own vows, like... You recently went to a wedding. Was that the cakes? No, not really, no, I didn't have him, those vowels were fine. But, 0 my god. Oh, God. Oh, the ring. Oh, Harry goes, oh, the ring. Oh, crappy sitcom nonsense. Awful. But so they're not getting married and so does this tell us that this is not the real ship already? The fact that we open with them getting married. They're in a relationship, aren't they? And they have been since the beginning of series four. But at this point, there should be a key indicator that these are not the real Voyager crew that they're actually making genuine character development here for these people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. But to be fair, the Voyager, they do actually go through with it at the beginning of series 7. At the end, when basically they really don't have to deal with the consequences too much, as usual, on 90s straight. We just get a year. going on with B'lana's wig. Is that the other way that we know that it's not... Our crew. Bilana's doing something different with her hair on this floor. No, the way we know that it's not the Voyager crew is that even Kate Mulgrew can't salvage the episode. So clearly that's not our Kate Malpru there. But there is something about this version of the captain where like, you know, um, Kirk marries someone, doesn't he? Uh, like, we've seen captains marry people before. But there's something about this, you know, where they're creating this family because they're stranded and staff. Yeah, this, I just, I think the dialogue here is actually pretty funny. I do like this, but I don't like that. 7 catches it. What? No, no, I like I like the jokes around K 7 catching the bouquet because her being fish out of water is always fun. I don't like the slow-mo in a second, which... And it's Tim Ross who says you may not want to know, which I think is just awesome. Okay, now this is dreadful. I wish for like slow motion should be used very judiciously. and this, what's it... It just reminds me that this is all very artificial, that suddenly we're watching these vowels and this sequence in slow-mo. It's really trying to point out something, isn't it? But what is it that they're doomed? That they're doomed. This is a real... I don't know. It's much entirely clear. There's slow motion and timeless as well. The beginning, there's a huge celebration. We've got this fabulous new warp core that can take us all these miles across space. And that's like a moment of triumph. absolutely telling you why it's in slow mode, whereas here it's unsettling. So that's what it's doing. It's being unsettling. I think. And then, of course, we get the scene where it goes down into the Jeffreys tube, the rice they're throwing goes through the floor. And we do lots of wibbly wobbly stuff. stuff. The Demon Planet has done a perfect job of recapturing the Voyager title sequence here as well, for this Voyager. Yeah. Yeah. Beat for beat. So, in a sense, these are the Voyager characters, aren't they? They believe themselves to be. Oh, now I know what you're talking about, but these are your voyages. analogy. Yeah, they have they have the memory of the Voyager characters until 10 months ago. In what sense is it not there? Like in one sense, are they not real? Because they're not the characters I've been following all this time. Well, they are versions of you. You saw it. They did all their usual shtick at the wedding. They even say in the episode, you didn't exist more than a year ago. But that's not true. Do you know what I mean? In a sense, that's not true. And it doesn't matter what they are. And this is a thing, right? that that we have undergone that same sort of, like as people, you know, where we thought we were the centre of the universe. We thought that we were specially created by God. We thought that we were designed and that our lives had a particular purpose and all of that sort of stuff. And existentialism is, no, none of that's actually real, and you have to find your purpose. There's none that sort of imposed on you from the outside. And we are different from what we thought we were. That's not true, people. We're doing it right. We found our purpose. To mock Star Trek relentlessly. Exactly. So, so, so something has changed. They discover something about themselves. They don't, they aren't who they think they are, right, but they are still in a sense those people. And so one of the objections that I have to this episode is that it's just watching our regular crew members all die of the plague and then the ship exploding and that's not fun to watch. And it, and they're even more our regular crew than the premise of the show because it is just, uh, the medium Robert and Kate playing these characters, which is exactly what they do every week. This is a real difference between you and me, isn't it? Because these hologram enterprise characters and these weird demon planet Voyager crew, I just have no interest in them at all. Yeah, but, you know, they are our characters. Not to me they're not. They are to you, but they're not to me. They are just inferior duplicates covered in latex. No, you see, the inferior duplicates every week. They're just Kate and Jason and the worst Robert. Did you see who directed this episode? So this is Anderson Williams. who was Potsey in Happy Days. Obviously. That's a great bit of trivia. It's like, and he was great in happy days. He was really good. And he does, it's only a paper movie. He does brilliantly, may I say? And statistical probabilities. He directed demon? Okay. He actually directed Demon. He did real life, which is a much better episode than I think people give it credit for. The gift. Oh, it's great, yeah. Yeah. I think that's all of them. He doesn't do a huge number of them, but he does. The gift is how you genuinely do Voyager character drama. You know? One, you just focus on the women because they're the best in Voyager. Yes. Two, you know, it's about the real crew. Sorry. And three, it has actual fucking consequences. Kez leaves and 7 joins. Yeah. So so here, I think, what's super interesting. And I like this is that they've developed a way to get home and they expect to get home in 2 years. And I think at this point we know that it's not them. There's enough to adding up. That could have been the payoff for this, is that they managed to send the information to the other ship and then they've got a way of getting home in 2 years. What have we got? Series 5, series 7. There you go. Yeah, yeah, but I I think that kind of wrecks the show a bit in a way. It would be something. Yeah, but that's what series breaking about it, isn't it? That's how you know it's not real. It is, firstly, the wedding because we never do those sorts of changes of the status quo on Voyager, and we certainly don't do them so thoroughgoingly just in the teaser. You know, you would never just deal with their wedding in the teaser and when it happens. Yeah, for Dax's wedding's right at the end and it's a big affair you know? Yeah, yeah. And then here they're about to get home. And like I, I like this idea. And what works for me, I think, is that's the reason that they're coming apart because they think they're human and they think their ship is real. They have run the modelling and their enhanced warp drive won't harm the ship. But it will harm whatever this is, and that's why they die. You know what's very old is when, you know, obviously, because of this, things start melting a bit. Yeah. It takes ages for people to melt and the food starts melting and all sorts starts melting and then Bilardatorius only starts melting. And it's like, oh, well what's wrong with her? We're going to do all these tests. And no one makes the link, you know, that the whole thing is basically, you know, one of those, what do you call them, those real-time Jesus Christ, you know, when you watch flowers wilting? It's basically that happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. In real time. Like, yeah. Yeah, so, like, she's spotting it now. And it, and so in a sense, they're doing a better job of a voyage a better job being the Voyager crew than the normal crew. Oh, damning. Are they? Like, Tom and Belana have married, managed to get married. They seem to have solved the strategy in the Delta Quadrant problem. You know what, right? Lana's doing something different with her hair. When the shit hits the fan with the normal Voyager crew, yeah. and it's they're on the verge of dying, you've got Janeway on the bridge like in year of hell, going, going to hell, I'm crushing the ship, or in the fabulous deadlock, where she goes, gentlemen welcome to the bridge and then blows up the ship. It is. She just sits down in her chair, melts and dies, you know? Yeah, it's so. They don't do everything there. than the normal voyager. No, but at this point they are doing a better job of being the crew. And so, but then this sort of horrible thing happens and they all discover they're going to die. And spoiler alert, we are all going to die. That's a thing that's going to happen. And there's no escaping that. And eventually people die enough forgotten. Sorry, everyone, all right? Yeah, yeah. You guys, you'll be fine. as much as you can, all right? Yeah, yeah. So, so, I mean, that's the thing that this is saying, but why is that fun to watch? I'm trying to forget about that. You know, like... Oh, you obviously, you can't tell stories about dying. But not it's such a boring and bleak way as this. Yeah, well, that's it. And then everybody died and no one remembered who they were and it's as if they'd never existed. And you just sort of think, well, maybe it would be better to talk about how you can create meaning for yourself. The meaning doesn't have to be absolute. It is a thing that people create for themselves. And so you can have an effect on the world, even though you're going to die and be. Exactly. So why when they discovered they're all going to die? Do they all just sort of stop and go, oh, well, we're all going to die. Instead of just doing something meaningful with the time they've got left. In fact, Janeway is the one who sort of says, why don't we go home to earth because who knows? Do you know what I mean? Like maybe we're what's left of the Voyager cruise. You know, bleeding into the scripts here. Yeah, yeah. And that's not a dumb idea. Like her idea of saying, well, you know, because I'm different from what I thought I was, my values and goals and ideals are stupid. Like why is that an automatic decision? Well, then someone, does somebody say then, oh, no, because if we go back to Earth, they'll lock us up as inferior copies. But actually, maybe that won't happen. The only place it would be awkward is after endgame when the other crew comes home and there's 2 of everybody hanging around. Yeah, although that might make a good telly movie afterwards with all these duplicants of everybody. Yeah, so here at this point, we know that they're all doomed to die. Well, we knew that when it was called course oblivion. I just think everyone would have more of a reaction to the fact that they're not who they thought they were, and there would be more pushback against that, you know? Is there everyone just going about their daily routines? Yeah. But in a way, as I said, they are who they thought they were. Because what makes you you? you know what I mean? Like what makes... At this point. Okay, even if we accept that, they are who they say they were. Now they're not living the lives that they otherwise would have which their other career, because they're not melting. So at this point, this is where the divergence happens and we can actually well fuck this shit. I'm not going to be an ensign on Voyager standing here with my pad repeating what the computer's saying. I'm actually going to go and have a bit of fun in the 10 hours I've got left to live. But we don't get any of that. Just Tom Paris. being a bit grumpy asshole. Why should we listen to the captain? Yeah, yeah. And that's like, that's not pleasant to watch either because he just comes across as an arsehole. It's like, yeah, sure, dude, your wife died, but like you just have to be horrible to everyone now. Like people who deal with loss in a gracious way. We admire those people and people who are just pricks about it. You're going to be following her shortly. So you may as well enjoy the time you got left. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, this is so, this is so funny because not only do you get another example of this sort of, you know, a lot of talk to me sort of acting that he does. He sort of goes, he can't even say no, Kenny. He goes, no, it's so bad. I was so very aware of the ill camera shot because Roxanne Dawson is very visibly breathing throughout the entire scene. Maybe I want to move the camera. Right, okay, because now you're giving this job to the worst Robert. Um, and so he has to do grief at the loss of his wife, and you just sort of think if it had been the other way round, and we're not fridging her because she's a woman and what matters is how a man feels about. Do you know what I mean? If he had died and she'd felt sad about that, that would have been a lot better because he's just, she's just a vastly better actor than he is. Even if it's just been Robert, the doctor, what's his name? Robert Picardo. Yeah, he's the doctor, so he should be here. Can't he just act this thing out with her? No one else can come in. She's infectious. Let me do the acting. Yeah, that's right. So this is just miserable to watch. And it's the same complaint that I made about threshold. Like threshold is stupid, but that doesn't rule it out. What rules are now is it's just fucking unpleasant. Like it's just... the ending with the babies and we love that. Yeah that's awesome. But the, like, this makeup, I've got to say, is already intolerably ugly, this makeup. And we haven't even started yet. No. Like laws coming out of their noses, but... It's so bad. I'd love to have, had a chat with the actors, done a, no, no Starburst interview with them on set when they were doing no sleep. Oh, and Kate. Like, Jesus Christ, I'm so embarrassed, okay? Visually, the worst is Jerry Ryan, the most beautiful woman on this planet. who they can make. Look, absolutely. Gary Wang is a very beautiful man and he looks awful. He just looks hideous. But the makeup they put on Jerry Ryan. that sort of off green. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Garrett's got that as well. And it's super shiny and stuff. It's like deeply unpleasant. I mean, it's supposed to be, right? But like, who thought that was a good idea? Who's doing this to these? I thought that would be an enjoyable watch. Yeah, that's right. That's right. So she's dead. Naked eye. I believe this is an appropriate moment to say to you that I did in fact, go looking for viewer reviews of course oblivion. And actually the consensus, because there's a couple of YouTube reviews of this episode, both highly positive about what a tragedy and drama this episode is. But in the comments, people go, oh, one of my favourites, you know brings me to tears every time. stunning makeup. That's what I was reading. No, it's so ugly and so unpleasant. And all of these horrible things happen to people for kind of no reason. And I think I was saying this to you before. All you need is a fucking typewriter to create this. Like, there's nothing ironic. They don't bring it on themselves. Do you know what I mean? Like there's no last minute thing. They all just catch a plague and then die. And you can think, well, like, that's not tragedy in any sort of sense that Aristotle would understand. It's just a bunch of fucking ugly things happen to happening to people that we kind of like that we're tuning in to watch every week. It's miserable. Did you see those clamps going up over Belada then? The director finally realised you could see her breathing. Get the clothes up, Twig. I do love this big screen on the set, you know, the big screen where we'd, so this, the demon planet is one of our more interesting missions according to the medium robin here. Starloin made me howl because it's still pretty mediocre, you know? And this is, as you know, Bob. Like, it is absolutely the medium Robert telling Tuvok exactly what happened even though. ironically, you know, one of not the 3 bobs in the show. Yeah, that's right. That's right. It's bomb actually saying, look at poor Roxanne. She looks a bit like a reptile doesn't she? It's dreadful. And so this is where they realise it. And actually, one of the things I think that you're meant to get too. is that they talk about a few recent adventures which are nothing at all like what we've had. Do you know what I mean? Like they mentioned these things that happened to them and that haven't happened in any episodes. And it's only when they go back to the demon planet thing that they're talking about a real episode. I believe if he injects her with a dichromite catalyst, she might start... Here we go. Oh, look at that. Like, why are you doing that? But you know what? You know, you were saying how people could sort of react to this sort of stuff in a more dramatic way than we get. You know, one person could if pseudo was still on the ship, he could be like, my God, get me that dichromic catalyst. I'm going to go around melting everybody, you know? Melting everyone. Even that would be more fun. Oh my god. The way tumulk delivers that line, Depham. We are all duplicates. And then you get obviously the sort of end of scene sting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. and you get the medium Robert looking kind of upset. I actually like the way that Tuvok delivers it and I'm glad they gave that line to a good actor, you know. I'm glad Bob Picardo gets to say, behold, the primordial soup. By the way, we're all gonna die. Well, they should have just hang a lantern on it, though, and had one line go. You know, it's funny how we all forgot that we were from this planet. I do say it. They do say that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, they say it. She goes, I've got no memory of being a copy, blah, blah, blah. You got Janeway's memories. They were duplicated too. the real voyage left where you began to forget we were duplicates. And that's stupid. That's nothing like what demon says and it's cheating. So if this is a fair play mystery, if we're supposed to... No, no, it makes no sense. And the, and it, and it, it kind of retrospectively spoils demon which of course it doesn't because you can watch demon and enjoy it or hate it or whatever you like without this affecting it. It doesn't actually change demon in any way. But it's just a bit crappy, if the mystery matters, if we're supposed to work out what it is, then this is cheating because the demon wasn't like that. Did they decide on the planet, oh, you know what? Pull up some Voyager schematics, right? Let's make that out of the goo. Here we go. Yep. And then... purpose. Oh, well, we're just going to go off and boyish the stars like the other crew and then hopefully we won't run into them at any point. No, because they think they're real now at this point. They, so, so their experience, they were doing all of that. They must still have remembered, you know, that they are duplicates on this player. It has to be at some point after they've gone on the ship and they're off into space. Yeah, you can't push it too much because it falls to peace. Surely they didn't all forget at the same time. Like, people can't, what are you talking about? We're from a demon planet. Oh, you know, none of it makes anything. They're doing it to make they do whatever they need to do to make the episode work. Oh, no. Poor Kate. She's starting to get... She's getting the makeup. Do you think the makeup here is worse than threshold? I don't think anything's worse than threshold. Yeah, again, that's ugly as well, but at least it's only the worst Robert, who gets it. At least no one's puking up their tongues in this though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But here it's the entire crew. You know, it's ugly to look at and it's everywhere. That poor woman in the band. in the back. Yeah, she's only a day player. She got covered in latex. Yeah, I saw that. So Kate's right here. She's expressing my view on what's going on here, that her feelings are real. Like, why are her feelings not real? Why, why, so her subjective experience is, she remembers everything of her childhood, everything up until a year ago, 10 months ago, like she has exactly the same memories as our Kate, and then it diverges a bit, and then suddenly she discovers she's not real. And so her experiences, I've been a real, Catherine Janeway, I'm real, and now I discover that I'm just this goo thing. What do I do? Do know what I mean? The real Catherine Janeway is just made of meat. Like, do you know what I mean? It's not what you're made of. To take this line of reasoning to its conclusion then. So you like the voyage crew, right, on the whole? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? So then you like these people because you believe these are the Voyager Prue and you are watching these people slowly die throughout this episode. So why aren't you incredibly moved by all this? Because it's just stupid and like manipulative and it doesn't land like none of it's real. Like they all just die of a stupid space. real. None of what happens to them is real because they just die of a dumb space disease. Do you know what I mean? Like that's not tragedy. Like someone catches a disease and dies. That's sad, but it's not tragedy. And this is a TV show. It's not real life. Like you could get sad if lots of people caught in disease and died and they were real. But if all of the characters in your show called a disease and died, you'd be going, what the fuck happened in the writer's room? What's going on here? can't be very sad though. Because I don't know if you remember the quickening where they've got that terrible disease blighted planet and they're all dying. And Bashir gets very close to that lovely lady of Corya. And then she dies at the end of the episode. But of course, because he's been putting all the drugs, which he thinks is going to cure it, all goes into a uterus, the baby comes out cured, and it's not only satisfying, but it's emotionally resonant as well, it offers hope for the future. All the things this episode is refusing to. We're deliberately choosing not to do. I'm saying it's called course oblivion. It absolutely, like just mean spiritedly refuses to give them a win at all. those flowers and everything they try doesn't work. Are those flowers supposed to be wilting like that because the ship's dying? I don't know. It looks like, you know, I sometimes put out flowers and it's like that day's sort of sale by date on them and they're all a bit... It's what they look like. I think it's supposed to be a visual clue that the ship sort of melting. Maybe. I could be reading far too much into this. Well, but look how bad this scene is as well. So she's going to try and get them home. Like this, like I just... There's no tribe in any of the performances. Kate Mulgrew is usually vital and alive in her performance, you know? She just gives up in this. Because there's nothing real about the situation they're in. So imagine you discover that you're a goo person. What do you do with that? What do you do with that information? You know, what, is it, is it wrong? You're asking me that question? Yeah. If I discovered I was a goo person and not, in fact, the real Joe Ford, I'll probably go looking for the real Joe Ford. He's pretty hot, you know, we can have a lot of fun. Yeah, there's always that, isn't there? You could do that. But, um, but, like, what's the right thing to do? We having an argument here. He thinks we should go back to the Y planet, the demon class planet from last year's episode. She thinks we should continue on our mission. Who's right? I don't know. How do I even decide that? So what's, what's, you know? It's not analogous to anything in our life. That's true. Using Star Trek can do this quite well, can't they? We're sort of metaphor that we can buy into. But yeah. And like the nearest there is to a possible reading of this where it's kind of like we aren't who we thought we were, but we have these memories and ideas and thoughts and the things that Kate was saying before, and those things are real, you know, those things those things are real, those things matter, even if we aren't who we thought we were. And I think there's something there, but it doesn't go anywhere and we don't learn anything from it, and this is ugly. Look at this. And it just has no impact on our crew at all. That's such an oversight. They were right to have that argument in the writer's room about the ending. They made the wrong call. Well, I think thematically if they wanted to create a nasty, ugly episode, then this ending is the right call. That's what they were going for. I think they think this is high drama. They were. they were going, you know, they're so cruel to this crew. I don't think they're just trying to be deliberately cruel. I think we are supposed to feel for these people. That's that's the idea. And by the end of it, you know, the irony that they dole died before the other Voyager crew came along, the ultimate tragedy. Their deaths have no purpose. It's supposed to move us to tears. Yeah, no, that's stupid. And look at this. How can they not be the real Voyager crew, if they're meeting a group of intransigent aliens who want to get in their way for no reason. Like, that's classic voyage, and they kind of go, yes, that's right. We are the Voyager crew. This bullshit happens to them every week. I'll be saying, are we still doing this shit, really? where none of us are real. Well, I mean, no, but like here they're trying to go down to that planet because they think it's an environment that they can survive in more easily that it'll stop their degradation. And so this is... In the same breath that Tom Paris is, you know, token objections. Why should we listen to her? Yeah, take that to it saying, have a riot, have the Kruger, just make, just do this with some passion. Or just don't do this, I think, because all of it's so hardhearted isn't it? I've never seen people die so somnambulistically. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I don't think having a being fired, you know, where every, you know, like, why is Tom such a prick here? I think he always is. He's not actor. I think that's it. But is that is that what we want? It's supposed to be like the rebel, isn't he? Well, but he's supposed to be the character that we like, isn't he? Because he's kind of cool and he likes the 20th century and it all fails horribly his dream. Did he ever call, Nathan? No, no, but I think the writers think he probably is. I think he's like the closest to like a jock on the show, don't they? You know? It's a bit of swagger about him. Exactly, exactly. So, but why does he do that? Why does he react that way? Because B'lana's dead? Well, like every, you know, heaps of people are dying around here. He's the one being the prick about it. Like what, you know, like what? This could be the time for like the marquee mutiny, you know, I'm doing this. What is, but what's Tom proposing here, that we just kill all the people on board this ship so we can land? So does that mean we're doing that? Paris is an asshole all along. If this is exactly the same as the Voyager Cruise? Yeah. Yeah, if anything, if like anything bad happens to him. If his wife dies, it's like, all bets are often. I think we should just murder a bunch of people. Like, what's that? I think they're trying to justify him being demoted earlier on in the season in that ocean planet episode. Oh, that horrible makeup on her face. Even Robert Beltran. Oh, no. No, he's got terrible makeup too. I heard, though, that bit. over her eyes. Oh, it's dreadful. It's dreadful. Who thought this was good? Do you know what it looks like? You know, because like I saw somebody have a stroke at work once and their eyes sort of went lazy like that. It's really horrible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's look at our situation objectively here. Okay. Let's be objective about this crazy situation. So, I mean, also, here we go. We're talking about the marquee stuff now. He's saying, look, I've decided to do this because I thought we were the real crew. Now we're not. But I mean, that kind of makes... Yeah, I mean, it makes sense in that if they're going to stay alive, they have to do something different from what the Voyager crew would have to do, yeah, um, so they, the facts of the matter have changed the situation enough that what they need to do is something different. And Janeway needs to realise that. She doesn't need to, like, kill people or, you know, compromise her principles because they're her principles and they still matter even if she's a goo person, you know. But you know, like when when these sort of dramatic crux of the episode is, do we just keep doing what we've always been doing or do we turn around and go back to where we were a year ago? I feel as if we've gone up a blind alley with this episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because neither option is interesting when it's about these melting people. No, that's right. But, like, and home isn't earth, like, in what sense I know he's going to die. That's right. you know, Did you feel anything when he died? Because I didn't. No, because it's just another... I mean, I didn't feel anything when anyone died. No. And it's not because they're not real and because they're every bit as real as they are every week, it's the same actors doing the same shit, you know, like on the same sets. It's what we're used to seeing. It's just that all of this is so bullshit. These scenes now where she sits down in the chair in a minute, just sort of sort of relaxes into the chair and the terrible makeup and her voice is flat and I just feel like Kate Mulgra has given up. Yeah, they're not pulling this shit on. They're not making Tim Russ wear horrible goo makeup, are they? I just feel like she, by this point in this production schedule in this season, we're about 2 thirds through now, and she's got this grizzly makeup on her face. Kate Margaret has gone, oh, enough. I'll phone it in for the rest of the episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not even supposed to be me anyway. So... Well, and no one else, like no one else gets makeup. Like, they all get makeup that makes them look stupid. Right? But none of them gets makeup that actually obscures their features and makes it hard for them to, you know, like visibly express themselves. And these close-ups ugly and unpleasant, and she's got the thing over her eye. She can still, you know, do basically anything that she needs to do with her face. But later on, it's like this sort of hard carapace on a face that's covering her eye and one side of her mouth and she's trying you know, she's expected to act through it. Do you know what, Nathan? This writing team. Yeah, they've got one of the greatest weapons they could possibly have. They've got Kate Mongrew and they do this to her. Yeah, I know. Oh no, it's so embarrassing. I do love these shots of Voyager kind of melting. the Odo morphing effects. you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's it. green liquid. It's silver liquid. they're the same sort of thing So this scene is the scene that I remember. It's utterly fucking embarrassing. Look at all of them. at all of them. No, you've got Kate. You've got... Oh, Neelix. You've got pretty Garrett Wang and Pretty Jerry Ryan there. I mean, even Felix. He's already covered in spots and hair and ridges and now they put some... Like they're covering her eye. Like they're covering her right eye on one side of her mouth and expecting her to act and deliver dialogue. And look at that. Look at Jerry Ryan. Jesus Christ. What are they doing? What is that? Just active fit to each other. between takes. They better bring me soup for lunch because I can only drink for a straw. fucking bullshit. And look at Garrett. It's awful. It's awful. Garrett's reusing his makeup. Remember when he got infected by Species 8472. It looks a bit like that again. They've got the tubes up the nose again. They choose up the nose. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, no, now Neelix is the chief medical officer. Just when we thought fingers couldn't get any trouble now. That's right. Oh, no. Kate, she should have said, how do you expect me to talk with a flu in my mouth? That's right. What are we doing here? Who thinks this is a good idea? Why is this in any way watchable? Do you know, I fear if there's anyone in the audience that enjoys listening to us and rant and rave in a hysterical way? They will not be shortchanged in calls oblivion. Yeah, okay. So here we're doing another thing, right? We're doing our personal logs. We've all seen the inner light, and so we're deciding that we're gonna download, download our logs of the last 10 years of Voyager 10 months of Voyager episodes that never happened, and we're going to, you know, send them off into space. But just because the riders are being horrible, it doesn't work. And, you know, it's called course oblivion. So it was never going to work. They're not going to be remembered because that's the opposite of what oblivion means. Like I kind of get that. And I kind of get, you know, if we're making an existential point if we're expecting our legacy to last forever, then we're fooling ourselves and we can't act on that basis either, we have to make our decisions, you know, now for this life because that's what we've got. But, like, it just seems so mean spiritual. So depressing. So depressing. I wonder if this is why the deep memorial in the next season and the entire episode about this huge obelisk that remembers the society, you know. strangely enough, it's very moving and engaging to watch. Yes, this bullshit. Yeah, no, let's shake the camera now a bit as well. In fact, no, when they shake the camera, the sort of the makeup is less visible. So keep going. I mean, this has still got 7 minutes to go. Oh, yeah, it's really bad. Should we sing or something? No, we're just having a scene of techno babble. only everyone's ugly. which is normally what we have. fucking Did you see the, the um, God, it's what they're called. The closed captions there. It said tired sigh. I mean, it could be close captioning me right now. All right, now Janeway's dead, which seems like an odd choice, but okay. This should move. surely. Yeah, no, but the whole thing is just, it's just like, oh, well, at least Kate doesn't have to get made up for the next 10 days. Even the Vedians that they're worst looked as ghastly as Neelix does right there. Or Garrett, look at him. Oh, Jerry. Jesus Christ. It's so it's so bad. She looks like a monkey. Like it's awful. I remember when we did Genesis, you know, and everyone was turning into creatures. But that was fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Orphors and Neanderthal and Reg Barker as a spider. Yeah, I mean, I'm starting to see that episode in a new light, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just look how just bleak this is. And like he's this special effect. Naughty let's give a shot of people dying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Star Trek, you know? Yeah. This bold optimistic year of the future. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, the what happens in the future is everyone dies horribly and then is forgotten. and that's true. But, like, why are we watching an episode about? There are ways of examining that, of rejecting that idea and examining that, and it's what DSI did on a regular occasion in its later years. This is not that. No. This is just giving up. Yeah, yeah. You know, well, matches are not, are they? They're still sort of trying with all this techno. They're still doing stuff. Well, they're still trying to send off this thing. That's the one thing that's happening. I think somebody should have committed suicide just to make it even ghastlier. Jerry Ryan should have gone. I can't face looking on this for the rest of my life. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for the rest of this episode. I can't do sit in the makeup chair. I'm not getting up at 4 o'clock in the morning to be made up to look like this for another day. Oh, funnily enough, they didn't do this to her on Picol, did they? No. No. They just let her look as sexy as she possibly can. Oh, no, the launch mechanism's demolecularized. Oh, no. I hear that's bad news. Well, I think it means that there are no molecules in it anymore. And it's something that catastrophic existence. Mission locks... history gone. They don't have a backup. Like, I just don't, like, they don't have a backup. And they just put them in the thing. and they were just going to fire it off into space. They didn't have a backup. They deleted them all. It should be panic, you know, like, it should be, it should make you feel something in the performance. But they're so fucking lacklustre. Yeah, yeah. Oh, God. No, we're trying to hail Voyager. The subspace transceivers malfunctioning now. Yeah, yeah. Because just everything and his puppy has died as well. And like, it's just everything terrible is happening. I just, I do wonder as well about the decision of leaving Garrett Wang to do the sort of emotional climax of the episode. Oh, no, maybe they watched timeless earlier in the season, of course. Well, it worked. They thought he can do it. He can do it. bring things to the table. No, basically, but who's talking about? No one can bring this. Kate Mulgrew couldn't do it. Yeah, that's right. If this is above Kate Mulgrew's acting great. Garat Wang doesn't have a hope. Sorry, Gary. don't ever listen to untitled Star Trek expression. But he is so pretty and they've ruined that as well. They've taken away as one redeeming feature as an accent. That's right. The one thing that kept him on the show. All right. So what are we doing? We're ejecting the warp core. Oh, no, it doesn't work. I suppose this reasons. At this point, we're still thinking, we've still got a glimmer of hope, but actually, boy, we'll see somebody. I remember them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, the ship's shaking his head apart. Sparks flying. can't see any rocks. No, none of the, none of the console seem to be explo-. Oh, there we go. why it's not Voyager, you see? No rocks. Yeah, yeah. But I think we cut away from it before we see anything catastrophic happen. I mean, apart from this, this is pretty catastrophic. 7's dead. But not even a witty line like Janeway had every time she blew up the ship. No. Yeah. You know? Hello, everybody. welcome to the bridge. So great. So just hang on for 5 seconds, 5 minutes, Garrett, you can do it. Now we come back to the real ship. Oh, yeah. Here we go. And everyone's looking normal. Oh, except for the... Indistinguishable from the fake one. Oh, no, wait. looks a lot nicer. That's right. And so, and so this, right, which I think is, again, another bleak thing where she enters into the log. So not only, like when we see them on the on the screen, that's nothing, it's just liquid, do you know what I mean? Like it's just completely gone apart. Like it's, it's just sort of fallen into liquid. and then we get... Residual, juridim... Well, we had that. We had that before. At least everybody looks pretty again, though. Yeah, see that's that's good. And they never, they never fucked up Tim Ross. In fact, I don't think they've ever looked to hear me. They do in this scene, all of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. that's right Make a note in the ship's record. We received a distress call at 900 hours and that's it. That's all that survives of that ship is that entry in the log. The ship was destroyed. She says, that's it. unknown. Yeah. And so we could have called this episode cause unknown. I like how she's delivering this because, do you know what I mean? She's getting to act like she's thinking about it, like what's you look at how she's thinking. It's, it's Kate doing the thing where it's just like, I don't know what happened here and she's properly wondering about it and she's selling that she's wondering about it. But that's amazing that they get. How much she can perform when they remove the adhesive from her mouth, isn't it? right. It's amazing. You know what, right? I got to tell you, because the next episode has now begun on Netflix, and it's the fight featuring Robert Belcher and screaming hysterically because he's having all these visions of the boxing ring and Boothby. And, of course, oblivion is the middle course of the trilogy of terror, the disease, course oblivion, and the fight. and the five. And boys only does it twice. There's a 3 episode run which we've already talked about in series three. Ironically enough, also features a Harry Kim episode in there as well. Right. In fact, both of them, there's a fake heritage for Harry Kim. In both of those episodes, and they're both appalling. Yeah, that just doesn't have a pulse to it at all. I mean, I know they don't have pulses, but like, no, it's awful. Like, it is just awful. And it's in no way enjoyable. It's bleak and it just unnecessarily miserable. It's mean spirited, and it's in no way entertaining. But what is the most egregious thing about this is we know all the people involved in this episode have done great work elsewhere. Fuller went on to create Star Trek Discovery, whatever you think about that, it was a huge success. And some Williams directed it's only a paper moon, which was one of the best character dramas in 90s trek. These actors have done Sterling work elsewhere. So how did all these people come together to create this nothing else? Awful. Just dreadful. Well, look. As ever, you know, I said this a lot, but my most enjoyable experience of watching Course Oblivion has been, of course, with you ranting hysterically at my size. Alright, it's the end of the episode, and it's time for us to work out where we're going next. I sometimes go to the stats to see which series we've done too much of so that we don't use it up. You know, I don't want to find myself at the end of Untitled Star Trek project sometime in 2040 or something, with no more episodes of Deep Space 9 left to watch. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we try and we try and keep things even. But because that was such a deeply, deeply unpleasant experience I'm going to choose something that we've actually watched a bit more of than any other show. Strange new world to choose an episode. Strange new world. Oh, my God. He's going to drop another 10 episodes sometime recently soon. It's in production at the moment. I have to watch something good. was absolutely fucking miserable. This is the one time I can say with absolute confidence that what we're about to watch will be better than what we've just watched. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, we could do an enterprise episode and that would be true. We could do an animated series episode. All right. So we're going in. I'm going to press the button. Your random Star Trek Strange New Worlds episode is all those who wander, season one, episode nine. So this is the 2nd last episode of series one. It's a 10 episode season, and it is one of the gone episodes. So it's a brilliantly atmospheric, if not entirely original premise, done just incredibly. It's about originality. When the horror is done this. Well, Star Trek is pretty lame at horror. This was terrifying. It's really good. And one of the very few episodes of Star Trek that you and I have watched together in person. Yeah, that's true. We have watched that one together. And it's really terrifically enjoyable. I think it's great. So I think we just go with that one immediately. What do you reckon? Oh, glorious. Let's do it. Yeah, awesome. You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley, where online at untitledstar trekproject.com where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts. Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb. This episode was recorded on the 2nd of April 2024 and released on the 19th of April. We'll see you next time for Star Trek Strange New Worlds, all those who wander. Oh, great. Jesus Christ. And he seemed like that as Hammer dying. Do you know what I mean? Like Hammer? who's been in it for like how many episodes? 5 episodes or 6 episodes. and that death land. Oh, I think I said this when we did skin of evil. That death is more affecting than Yars, death in skin of evil. And it's certainly... Tears of the profits comes up soon. And we're going to do all the deaths, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not that many of them. And, and, you know, like, and all of those deaths, all 400 and something deaths or whatever, how many people are on Voyage 150? I don't remember. Yeah, something like that, yeah. 170, something like that, yeah. Yeah, but all of those people dying like, you know, who cares because it was just so dumb. Yeah, yeah, that's going to be good. I love Voyager. And those Voyager. I love, um, Strangely World. Even dramatis persona, you know, are cared more about than this episode. I just don't know if I've ever watched an episode in this entire run we've done so far. We're off kids so little about what's going on on the screen. Yeah, no, because it's so stupid and so mean spirited and it doesn't arise from anything. It's got nothing to do with any of the characters. We don't learn anything. There's more mean-spirited episode of Star Trek, unless. It probably is. There probably is a DSN eyes run, surely. Yeah, like 90s strike doesn't do very good with, uh, you know, like the Star Trek. Well, there's one that's very mean spirited, but it's brilliant, I think. Valiant. Oh, yeah, yeah. It takes all those idealistic, you know, Star Trek characters and murders them all horribly. Well, like I kind of like that because they're creeks. Well, yeah, they are. They are usual. There are usual sort of, it's series one, uh, TNG, you know? If you go out and civilise the galaxy. The finest crew, the finest crew. Red squad. Red squad. But it's the, um, like I thought, no, the Battle to the Strong was pretty mean-spirited, because it's like Nog, who is a nice person not Nog, because it's Jake, who's a nice person. Can't cope in their shitty version of Mash that they create for the episode. I love it. I love it. I love our bleak kids and I love it how he acts it. Sarah often. Yeah, great. Yeah, he's good, but I just sort of think, well, there's nothing wrong with actually bottling out of that. Do you know what I mean? Is the visitor quite well? No, you've got to kill yourself in all of... It's kind of weird because it doesn't go anywhere. I mean, the Ben remembers it. The tone is lovely. like it's it's melancholic rather than depressing. Because it is, like, we do die. dies, but he dies. He gets the chance to talk to this young woman who admires his work. He's given happiness to, you know, people who've read the thing would be me knocking on your door. You are Nathan Bottomley, the podcaster, aren't you? For Christ sake. But like, but that's beautiful. Like, that's beautiful. Like it's got Jake loving his father, which is also sad and beautiful and a thing. Oh, gorgeous, yeah. Well, and it just looks beautiful. Yeah, got a lovely garden outside and the sunlight coming in through the windows and the music's gorgeous. There's just none of that here at all, isn't there? Well, no, but what do you get, like, you get the worst, Robert kind of going, no, B'Elana, like, it's awful. Like, that's awful. Well, the cheesy thing. You know, we've barely scratched the surface with dreadful rubber dump McMill acting, you know. There's so many episodes that he gets, it's run, and we've only done one or two, I swear. Oh, yeah. We've done the worst. Yes, which is. Well, I don't know, you think the worst. I think Alice might be worst. It's been a while since I've seen Alice. I suppose it is an evil car that haunts him. That's quite fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's actually, it was supposed to be this sort of really sexy sports car, you know, in human form, which you can't act at all. God, I'm right. If this does go in on the tag, right? Any of this. And I feel like it should because we're sort of talking about Star Trek here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I would like to point out to anyone this thing. We do actually like Star Trek. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, part of the reason, like, that's what I said. These are characters that we like that we tune in and watch and we've got complaints to make about, you know, some of the acting and stuff like that. But broadly, we have fun hanging out with these people. And very quickly was horrible. That was just horrible. I don't want to watch that. Quickly recommend then. to the audience to hang around at the end to hear you and me doing our untitled Star Trek project banter. Go and listen to the doomsday machine. Dharmok. um I mean, tacking into the wind, which we did recently. Oh, actually, you were a little bit mean about that a couple of times. I'm trying to think of something you fully endorsed. Oh, but take me out to the hola suite. Yeah, yeah, yeah. counterpoints. Yep. Um, and then what was that, fabulous true episode of Discovery. Do you remember? Oh, yeah, to connect. But to connect from discovery. I mean, anything from Strange New Worlds that we covered. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pretty much anything from lower decks. A night in Sick Bay. Yeah, all right. We were doing so well until then. It's so much fun. It's great.