No Win Scenario

Hey, Joe. Hi. So we're back this week with the fourth episode of season 3 of Star Trek Picard, which actually screened, I think, in March last year. So I came and stayed with you, we recorded justice together in person, our 1st episode in person. And then as I was leaving England. The night before I left was when Picard series 3 debuted, and then I watched it the whole time I was away. So I was sort of travelling around the place, but making sure I was still able to watch Star Trek Picard. Were you watching it at the same time or did you do your usual thing of saying, oh, it's new Star Trek? I don't want to say it. I actually, I watched the 1st 3 episodes, I think. No, no, no, I'm lying that series too. No, no, no. I watched this all later. I binged the whole season in one go later and was very impressed overall. I think this half of the season is the better half of the season for me. This sort of protracted chase that's going on in this nebula in the 1st half of series 3. But I can't believe we just missed out on watching a genuinely good episode of Star Trek together by one day. That's so great. We had to watch justice instead. I just think this whole season is really great. And I was on board for both series one and series 2 of Picard, as you know, but I do think that series 3 was the right move given that we weren't going to have Patrick Stewart to do another season after this. And if you think about it, this gets released 28 years and 8 months after all good things. So very nearly 30 years after all good things. Whereas the undiscovered country, Star Trek 6 is just under 23 years after turnabout intruder. And so what's striking about this is it does the thing that I said that Star Trek, the Next Generation movies don't do, which is it gives us a chance to miss them. And so we're glad that they're all back and we get to see them again, we get that pleasure, that Star Trek, the motion picture pleasure that people had in 1978. We get to have that. And we just get to see them all being incredibly old. The sad truth is, had the next generation's run ended with nemesis. We were sort of glad to see him gone by that point because it really felt as if the air had all gone out of the balloon and nobody was doing their best work. And then I remember when Picard came on, I thought Picard was going to be this all the way through. I thought it was going to be a massive loving for the next generation. So when I watched that 1st episode and it was something very dark and twisted. They were beating this franchise into unusual shapes with admiral swearing and people dying all just odd things going on. I was like okay, so we're not doing that. I'm really pleased that we did have. I don't really need it because this was never my show, but I saw the collective response to this. And I think people needed this sort of last hurrah for the next generation crew. And what's really clear about this season is how it very slowly assembles all the pieces and doesn't give us our payoff until I think is at the end of episode 9 where they finally sit down at the bridge and we're exactly where we were all those years ago and everyone's getting all the nostalgic feels. I should have predicted that I never expected that they would be on the Enterprise D Bridge. And so when they're all together by about episode 7 or 8, I kind of think, all right, so this is them and this crew is going to save the galaxy, but then having them do that from the bridge if the Enterprise D lovingly recreated was pretty damn incredible, I think. I love all, I was still all the behind the scenes footage out of the signs saying, do not step on the carpet. And they want Hoover and that dreadful bridge carpet like mad just to make it all look pristine. What struck me about no win scenario was when we watched Nepenthe it wasn't The next generation. And we've made lots of comments about sort of how the characters have been deepened how the actors were giving chances to act rather than just, you know, obey a plot. When I watched this in isolation this morning, it really felt like a next generation episode. To me, you had scenes in engineering where hypo spanners were being passed to people. Beverly Crusher was staring off camera, looking a bit, you know doing her acting in inverted commas. There were sequences on a holiday. Like it really felt, and I know it's not the enterprise. We're on a Federation ship, which we haven't really done a lot of in Picard. It really felt like we're back in that universe again. And it's all sort of coherent back to where we were back to what people want. But the thing is here too, I think, what is great about this episode, this clearly ends a kind of 4 episode arc, and it starts at the very bleakest moment. So the cliffhanger to the previous episode is that the sheep is falling into a gravity well and they're all going to die and there's no way we can think of avoiding that. And then it ends in triumph. And the reason it ends in triumph is because the characters embrace being Star Trek and they're kind of rewarded for that by that incredible visual of those weird squid monsters that hark back to encounter at FarPoint. It just so, so tremendous. I was seeing the little sperm creatures from Elogium around Voyager. I get what you're saying. Mind you, like the previous episodes of this. Did the unthinkable. It drove a wedge between Picard and Riker in a brilliant scene. and Patrick Stewart and Jonathan Freyce refuse to hold back. It's like, we've never had any tension for the last 30 years playing these characters. Let's go through. And then when he orders Picard off the bridge, it really feels like a moment and almost like these characters can't come back from this. And then what we get here, and this leans into sort of my DS9 love of the 90s, is a series of protracted character scenes whilst this sort of 10 stuff's playing out. There are long character scenes in this. That are just really like exemplary written. They're beautiful dialogue, great characterisation. It's pushing all the characters along. Everybody's learning about each other. It's just a lovely fusion of everything. 90s trek did well. With the money of today. you know, and and the acting opportunities that those actors are getting now. So I think this is probably my favourite episode of the season. Yeah, I think it is pretty great. And I also think too, that despite the fact that it is very similar in some senses to Star Trek, the Next Generation, I think that the quality of the relationships between the characters is so much better, that this is superior, I think, to even the best kind of episodes of Star Trek, the Next Generation. Cut above doesn't really do it justice, does it? Yeah, no, because all the things that are happening are happening in an interesting way. It's told interestingly in a way that 90s trek never is. It looks astonishing. It looks so great. I just think it's really, really good. I had some objections about the end of the season being back onto the Enterprise D, fighting the Borg, doing all those, like, I just felt it felt a little unambitious and a little, we're just going to play the same beats again, because this is what all the fans want. And it was sort of leaning into the past a bit too much. But they're doing that here as well because all the stuff they're talking about. Beverly's ex-husband Jack, the Battle of All 359, is doing all of that, but just in dialogue scenes. And I don't know why it just felt more effective. What was irritating about it was these conversations could have happened. Yes. In the 19s. Yeah. We've learned, you know, we've learned and we're doing it now and that's a good thing. I have to say that the ending is very fan pleasing, but it's so spectacular and so ambitious in the way that it looks visually and in what they're trying to thwart, you know, that something has kind of inhabited the federation at the very basic level, both technologically and through its personnel. And the scale of what's happening is so big and so huge, so much bigger and so much huger than they could possibly have done. And I think we would have been disappointed if the Borg hadn't been involved. And of course, we delighted that the changelings that the Dominion are involved as well. That's pretty great too. Again, it's a fusion of all those things that really worked in the 90s. He's doing, you know, what they do really well in lower decks cherry picking all the best, you know. but then doing it at its best as well. One other thing I want to say before we go in. Like in these 1st kind of episodes, I was like, what is the point of Jack Rusher? Like, in this sort of, um, can't be our sort of attitude, doesn't want to know his dad. And I was getting really annoyed, I think, when I 1st watched this in those middle scenes, where he started sitting in the bar and he's not really engaging with his dad, even though the car's really trying. And then that last scene in the restaurant. So there's a series of scenes in this episode where Picard's talking to a load of cadets about his great battles and, you know teamwork and all these things that make the Federation what it is. Oh, mock, yeah, that was there too. And then we find out at the end of the episode, Jack Rusher was there the whole time and he asks, Picard, what about family? You never had a family. And Picard, in a moment, you know, play into the crowd, goes Starfleet's the only family I ever needed, you know, and then sits looks very satisfied with himself and starts eating his haddock. Yeah, and Jack Rusher is appalled. And just with that, it absolutely sells everything you've seen to that point. They're really thinking about these people. And of course, Picard is remembering that at the time when we see it. And he looks across at Jack realising that that was Jack, that said that, that it was Jack all the time 5 years ago at the age of 18. And he looks up, like Picard in the flashback looks up and sees that Jack is gone and Picard in the present day realises that. And that's so well told, the fact that because we have sort of flashbacks, I think, at the beginning of quite a few of the episodes of Picard. But the way that the flashback is threaded through this episode and the way that it has different meanings at different points of the episode and it informs the episode that we're seeing at the different points that it's at. It's just very, very well told, I think. You know, mine's always characters. So that punch at the end. I mean, that justified it entirely, but also, also this is a massive sort of treatise on your crew. What's it? Picard says your crew allows you to be able to do the things that you can't do on your own. I thought that's what those flashbacks were all about. Yeah, they had this 2nd meaning at the end. It was just brilliantly written. Yeah, yeah. Really, very good. Oh, wait, can I say one last thing with them before we go? It's been a while since we've talked about Star Trek. I know, I know. And that is the joy I had when Gakes McFadden was wandering around sort of looking slightly hypnotised, looking at her pad every time this weird, what is it that's happening? There's like a build-up attractions, energy waves. Well, that's my point here. There's a buildup of all of these energy waves or something. It just sounds like Star Trek Technobabble. And then she manages to tie it into a biological event that's going on, hence justifying her existence. And I punched the air going, oh, my God, Gates McFallen has a recent... exactly right. It's not wizarding anymore. It's Dr. Crusher now, that has their role. It was pretty good. We'll talk about it as it happens, but often those countdowns actually kind of linked to the previous scene's dialogue in all sorts of weird ways. I think it's just terribly thoughtfully done. This was 90s trek. She would have just like, for no reason whatsoever. She's got no experience with energy She's on the bridge. Just have a pad and go, 0 my god, I've just noticed a pattern in this and it would be absolutely tedious. It was brilliantly done here, I thought. Yeah. All right, I think we should go in. What do you reckon? lovely to be so, so pleasant about modern day Star Trek. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's really great. All right, here goes. Five, four, three, two, one. And we're off. You know that title, no win scenario? Is that in relation to the could be could be Ashimaru? I don't know. That is what you think of, isn't it, when you 1st see it? It's used in dialogue by one of the cadets. So there's a pretty male cadet and a pretty female cadet, and the female cadet uses the phrase, no win scenario, to talk about that story, because the other flashback is, of course, the story to the story about the other Jack Crusher and Picard. And that plays into both stories, I think. But you were very into that. very pleased during that scene when Picard dropped an F-bomb. Yes, yeah. Yeah, I'll bet you fuck for the 1st time. What are they doing? So I think it works really well because it's a real proper admission of how he felt about that. It's a story that he's romanticising when he's telling it to the cadets and maybe at some point romanticising it when he's telling it to Jack. And then he, there's a little moment of honesty where he says actually it was 10 fucking gruelling hours. And I thought that was really good. You know how you often have a bit of a hard on for these starship designs in Star Trek. Yeah, I love the Titan. Did you, well, no, no. I was going to talk about the the change thing ship. Which, if you look at it closely, actually has panelling very like the Jem'adar ships, it looks like how they would be envisaged years later. Yeah, yeah, it is pretty great. This thing too, the portal device, which gets thrown away in this episode, and it's obviously used for a fantastic special effect shot in the 1st episode that terrorist attack that it's used for on some kind of Starfleet facility. But here, it's they shoot themselves. So they shoot themselves, the portal appears in front of them and then the same torpedoes come behind them and crash into them. It's so good. It's so visually interesting. You know exactly how it works. Also, I just think calling it the Shrike is such a great name for a ship. You see that there in the flashback. He goes, sit out, Admiral. Yeah, it's not working. You've just killed us all. And then you just see the Titan dead in the water. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, even the previously on Next Generation, sorry, previously on Star Trek Picard, you know, that's more propulsive and interesting than it has been in the past. And they're using that next generation font as well, aren't they? Yeah, yeah. Oh, they use the music over and over again. Yeah. I do like this 10 forward bar, you know, this very nice. Yeah. Yeah, I do too. It's really nice. It's a lot nicer than our normal 10 forward in the 90s. Well, that's a that is a beautiful set, I think, but yes. Well, it's just look how it's lit, you know, with all the external lighting sources. It's much more atmospheric. Yeah, I agree. We are also 30 years later. So yeah, like it should be. So this, this is so adorable. So he's encountered the herogen. This is like the sort of thing that the lower deckers would do. You know, they'd be fangirling about Captain Picard and meeting the Hirogen and all that sort of thing. That's precisely what's happening. I think this is actual dialogue from a convention that Kate Mulgul has been on. What was it like when you met the Hirogen? He is pretty, that boy, isn't he? Little, um, cadet wants his face. Patrick Stewart. I've, I don't, I don't say I've been a little unkind about him in Star Trek. Like, the age is so clear in his voice now. So he can't be quite as commanding as he used to be back in the day, I don't think. I think this is great. That thing where he says I'm not much of a storyteller. It's so deliberately a laugh line because he never... He's a man of the theatre. That's right. He's constantly doing it. And this is beautiful too. Even here, when it's introduced. It's obviously introduced for this. So he's saying you'll never be without hope, then we cut to him immediately having lost hope or lit red, you know, him 5 years later as the ship's about to be destroyed. And you sort of think, well, okay, that's why we have that and it's going to be about, you know, the contrast, but it keeps having a different effect each time it starts up again, that flashback. This is a beautiful shot. This bit here where it's falling, and then suddenly smack the asteroid. It's kind of like, how is it avoiding all those asteroids, you think, and then immediately it hits one. So good. But they they don't even, I don't think they try and make him like a powerful authority figure like they used to. In fact, in the 1st couple of seasons, it really felt as if they were pushing against that a lot, like making him a bit useless. And whilst his cruise assembling around him now, it's more like he's sort of the wise man now, isn't it? of the show. He's got all the knowledge, all the experience and they all love him. So they'll do anything for him. Exactly. I do think, you know, there's that moment where he seits in the captain's chair this episode and says engage with all wonderful warmth. And, you know, it's, it is pretty great. Does he say you've got more experience with this than me, Riker? wonderful. But, you know, the line's blurred between actor and character because everything I just said there, the wise man, and they love him so they'll do anything for him. That's Patrick Stewart as well. That's the reason why they all came back because they didn't have to do this. Oh yeah, also like the bridge crew of the Titan. So you've got this really pretty young Bajoran man, Lieutenant Mura, and you've got Tavine. Remember her? The Vulcan. I can't notice the doctor, Nathan, the trill doctor. Oh, the trill doctor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She gets a lot of close-ups during sort of tense moments and I thought the actress was great. Yeah, she doesn't really say anything very much, but she has a name. But I think that, you know, Taveen is so great. And then this other one, she's Esma or something, the communications officer, like all of them are so-called, and Sydney is so beautiful and so perfect. Like it's, you know, it's like having... Yeah, yeah. So it's like having Damara Sulu in Star Trek generations because you, you know, um, because he wouldn't do it. And so you've got Sydney there. And of course, Sydney was one of the names, there's 2 daughters. He has 2 daughters, Sidney and Alandra, which are the 2 names that he gives in all good things, and Alandra will turn up later, and is played by Lovin's daughter, like later in the season, which is just so tremendous. you know, at the end of the episode where she gets to play evil, was great. Yeah. That's well done too. And this, like, this is something of a reconciliation and and something happens here, right? Because, because we get the usual sort of substory, the backstory about Thad being buried, like he tells the story about burying his son, and it, and he equates the space that they're in, the nothingness of the space that they're in. He equates that with the, with the darkness inside inside the grave, you know, as the, as the, uh, as the coffin is, is kind of lowered out of sight. And so he, he, he equates those two. And then by the end of the episode, this becomes a place where things are giving birth. You know, it's... And he calls Deanna, doesn't he? And he says, I've had a moment here. And I've realised there's there's amazing things out there in the universe. It's awakens something inside of me again. It's really, and that's the sort of that, when we're talking about character work that didn't happen in the 90s. They just weren't thinking on that level. No. And in fact, I remember when it started because we had loved Nepenthe so much. And I think we, I mean, we had definitely recorded our Nepenthe episode before I saw episode one of series 3 of Picard. And like hearing that they had broken up and that he had left Kestra and Deanna, I just thought, oh, is everyone going to be having a bad time? You know, Raffi's taking drugs and blah, blah, blah. And I just sort of thought, this is so fucking miserable. But it's so that we get out of that. And that solved, I think, by the end of episode four. And the other thing that I think is good too. We have a B plot, which is Rafi, what Rafi's doing. She's not in this episode. So she gets it. Yeah. Yeah, she is. She gets an open credit, but they abandon that B plot just to make this more relentless so that we don't get time away from this plot. And I think it's a really good idea. Well, it feels more sort of claustrophobic as a result, isn't it? Where trapped on the ship is going down where without hope. Yeah, it's great. I was just watching just because I can't hear the dialogue. I was just watching the acting there between Patrick Stewart and Jonathan Bryant. You can just feel the weight. of the years between the 2 actors and between the 2 characters. And did you know his sort of Jonathan Brace is a bit slumped. His shoulders are a bit sagged, you know? Like, like the, it's really coming down on him now. Oh, 7 of knives, fabulous. So her subplot is her going around hunting down the changeling. So she gets to do all that, all that sort of who can be trusted stuff. it's wonderful. She is so good. I mean, for goodness sake, of course you get her back. And so it ends up being perfect to have her as one of the next generation crew basically by the end. How she slots in is so effortless this season. Like, she, like, if you hadn't have told me otherwise, I would have sworn she was a part of the next gen crew. Yeah, back in the 90s. Yeah. Well, I mean, she was one of the best actors of the, I mean they've got, you know, Kate Mulgrew back and they've got her back and, you know, oh, there we go. I mean, we have talked about 7 of 9 in Voyager and the injection of life. She brought to it when she came along. But we've also talked about how even that got a bit tired in the last couple of years. They just weren't given her the opportunities they were when she 1st came into it. I mean, she ever had some of the stuff she got here. She's so good in this, isn't she? Well she's relaxed. She was never relaxed on boys because Kate Mullen was there with a knife behind her back, you know? But also it's a character development thing. Like she can't come back and be the same as she was. Any more than like when data comes back, he's not quite the same as he was either. Because it's 28 years or whatever, not 28 years because he's in the films until Nemesis. But this. What about this? This whole conversation between Riker and her gets into cut with what she does after that conversation, and the whole thing is told out of order, but it doesn't matter, and this episode frequently does that, where dialogue in one scene informs, we've already cut to the next scene, and it informs that scene, and we hear it over it. Here, we had Beverly say the word 7 as well, but she's actually counting down. She's not calling Seven's name and that was a sort of weird thing. Later on, she picks up the word 5 from someone else's dialogue, you know? I know what it means to me about, okay, it's been fun, because I actually think she does some stunning work, yeah, like some gray character work. But I was just so lucky to see her holding a pad looking a bit lost. But do you notice that we've almost immediately in this in this episode, we get one of those things that lights up the, like it's it's like even before we go into the credits. We get one of those things hits the ship and the whole bridge lights up and happens straight away. And so the way that they solve the episode is already there right from the very 1st scene of the episode. I just got to figure out the puzzle. Yeah, yeah. And of course, Beverly Crusher's there to do it. Yeah. What else has Jack Crusher been in? I have seen him in other things. Was he in Downton Abbey? Oh, I don't know. I never watched Downton Abbey. I swear he's in a period drama of some kind of another. Yes, Downton Abbey series two. The wartime season. So this is, I mean, this guy is absolutely incredible. We saw him on Enterprise. Remember, playing a Vulcan. Uh, and he is like, so there's a Todd Stashwick playing Captain Liam Shaw, and he is such a great character, like such a brilliant character. Well, he's sort of arrogant sort of point of annoying, but you just can't hate him. where he's an asshole. Like, he isn't, and in this scene, he is absolutely brilliant. Do you know what I mean? Like he, he absolutely helps her, helps her out and knows what he's talking about. He's useful. He's captain for a reason. That's a trick, though, isn't it? He's an asshole that's more often than not right. So in those early episodes where he's being really horrible to Picard and now and severed and other people, and he swears there's a conspiracy going on between them, and there is. There he is, you know? He's he's often he's the anti-warf. He's always right. That's right. But it's kind of fun having someone, because part of the problem with Star Trek the Next Generation is everyone has such a great big stick up their arse and no one talks normally. They all talk like space people. Not anymore, Nathan. We are not in this. sticks up and retires. But, but I mean, Todd, Todd Stashwick's characters, even more kind of informal. He ends that big conversation where he gives seven, all of that useful information. Oh, this is him recording that message to Deanna. The only parallel I can think of is Jellicoe in TNG, a character that was that honest to the point of pure arrogance. And I quite like Jellicoe as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But you just didn't really have that. You didn't have those sort of very confronting dialogue scenes. in that straight like you do here. And the bit in a 2nd, well, is sort of in the middle of the episode where he comes in, it talks about 459. That's the strongest part of the episode, I think. Possibly the strongest part of the season. It adds so much weight to something that we saw 25 years ago. Yeah. And it is, you know, tragic sob story, the sort of thing that we've constantly made fun of, the thing that they made fun of last year, where without what I was watching. But it's done so well. I mean, it is just terribly well. sort of proof conclusive that you can actually do it. Yeah. Yeah, and we won't get some of it because it's the sound, like you get quite a lot of sound from the battle as he's talking, and he's also describing it in quite poetic terms. We'll get there. We'll get there. But it's just so interesting about that event in best of both worlds that was big at the time, you know, when we found when they go through the graveyard of ships. you know, it was powerful at the time, but then, you know, I think back to the beginning of emissary, where you actually see it played out from Cisco's point of view, and then here, all these scenes, just giving that more and more weight. You go back and watch that episode now, it's going to have all those layers added to it. I love we had the conversation about why the holodeck's still running in this sort of giant crisis. And it's because it has a separate... Well, of course. Yeah, of course. Because we established in Voyager that they run on a separate power system because we need to have Fairhaven and Dr. Chaotica. There was that brilliant moment in spirit folk where it was like Captain, are you sure? We will lose Fairhaven. She has a moment where it's like Fairhaven or the ship and she goes, do it. And so this conversation we've had already. The conversation about Picard's hair. And it's in a very bad episode called bloodlines in the series 7 and it's Jason Vigo, who thinks that he's, um, who's got massive 90s hair, um, much bigger than Jack Crusher's hair in this scene. Just look how handsome Jack Crusher is. I mean, honestly, it would be the 1st question I'd be, mind you look at you. Oh man, that's it. I think we're over it. Why aren't we over this in the 24th century? It's the 25th century, actually at this point? I think. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, and this. So this, why do we have a shot of him kind of twisting the the straw. And I think that watching this again, knowing how the episode ends. It becomes clear that he's acting. He's pushing Picard away because of that interaction that happened 5 years ago. And so he's breaking the straw at the moment just to show us that he's anxious about this, despite the fact that he's playing it nonchalant. It's very good. And I like the awkwardness of Patrick Stewart as well, who really wants to reach out to this kid. he didn't know he existed, did he? He knew nothing about Jack Brusher at all. So this is great. So this is all a dialogue, all exposition about who the changelings are in case you didn't know, and it's giving information to 7 about them. But it's also showing how competent he is as a commander. And then this, this speech here where he gives this massive out of character speech about how great 7 is and how she's a great leader and will make a great captain one day, which is something I totally would say if you were a change thing and not just a dick. You know, and that's so, it's so good. And that whole conversation happens. He refers to the changing as this arsehole. You know, like, and then she leaves the room. you know, with a definite plan about how to catch the change thing, which actually works, and he just says, whatever, as after the door's closed. Like, he's so... Yeah. Yeah. wonderful. And all this stuff about... too useful not to have around as he proves in the climax when he gets to the cell working. I love that when he gets to be the engineer again and he's like he's clearly loving it, isn't it? Is Odo, do you see Odo on the pad? Yeah, fabulous. Fabulous. Always. I'd just bring it in the changings as well. was great. What a lovely touch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we get backstory. It is referred to, like, specific things that happen during Deep Spaceline to Minion War are referred to, aren't they? To explain it. in the 1st couple of episodes. Yeah. And I think, you know, I always will rate Salome Gens as the best ever changing performers because, frankly, she's terrifying. But Amanda Plummer. I'll give her her props. Oh, she's incredibly good. We don't get that much about that. Talk about an activist going for it. She really goes for it. She's so good. She's tremendous. And I think she outdoes her father, who was also obviously a Star Trek villain as well. and one of the great Star Trek villains. I think she's incredible. Maybe the best Star Trek villain that we've had. unnervingly weird without ever going over the top. And she has that oily kind of feel to her, you know, like her hair's sort of oily. just a little bit. There's resigue. So good. I wanted that to be Odo's bucket. It does look a bit like Odo's bucket. It really does. But she sort of twitches, isn't she? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. she smokes as well. Like, that's sort of super weird. Yeah. I mean, look at her in that chair with that fabulous backlighting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the way her hair is oiled. Yeah, I mean, she's sort of sweaty. She seems sort of a bit clammy and sweaty in a sort of horrible way. And then this, this is the 1st time we see this as well. So this is us discovering that she's a changeling as well. So she cuts her hand off and it animates and, ugh, and the flesh and we could never do this in the 90s, but it looks like raw chicken meat. Yeah, isn't it? It's very unpleasant. I handle raw chicken meat on a regular basis. doesn't it? miserable. It looks like raw chicken meat. really good. I mean, I did think that some of the, when the people shape shift later in the episode, and it's still better than the 90s, but it was all right. That's fantastic. Yeah, amazing. I mean it looks like oil and water, doesn't it? It's not explained how it can float, but like whatever. And why it's the shape of a skull. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't think we ever find out either, do we? I mean, it is just she's being, she has changeling bosses and it's the change of the ball. Are they just pissed after being defeated at the end of the Dominion more? But she was experimented on in their effort to create the pathogen that that was designed to poison the, so it is explicitly that. And we see a scene of Amanda Plummer playing a scientist who's experimenting on, um, so just like Odo takes on, you know, what's his face's hair and basic look, um, Vatic takes on that, that scientist look as well. You know how we said this, you know, this cherry biting in some of the best of the 90s and doing it even better. I mean, this is, well, I think this one might be the 80s actually but it's the sequence in the Matara Nebula in Star Trek 2 done over what, 3 episodes or something? Yeah, yeah. Yep. Yep. And so here we go. We come back to this speech and now it's going to be about because there's stuff about belonging here too, isn't there? You know, um, it's about these raw young cats. That's so pretty. But, so initially it's talking about him and the, that guy in Dharmok becoming friends. Now we get the Jack Crusher story, which will then come up again later in this, in the conversation 5 years later. Yeah, yeah. I just love how how they are literally the example of what he's talking about later. you know, you are a crew, you will all find each other. You all look after each other. And you will all make your captain a better person. Oh, good grief. He's making me softish, you know. And then you see it happen. Yeah, well, when we come in in the present day and there's a group of people coming in to kind of look after one another and, you know, there's a Vulcan guy comforting this other guy and like, um so they're there to do the same thing. And then the other great role that they play is being the audience to um, to Captain Shaw's speech, where it's really kind of, you know, like it explains why he's an asshole, but he is definitely an asshole, nevertheless. Um, and he gets to say something at the end of that, which is pretty good. There's several ways he could have played that scene as well, where he talks about warfare, right? He could have been a lot angrier, a lot shoutier. But just the fact that he just keeps it down makes it very intense and he's just, he's, he's crying on cue, but out of the right. It's so great. So it's more powerful than actually seeing it for real in the best of both worlds. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's like a messenger speech. you know what I mean? You just give a good actor a thing like that. and they can make it out. in the doomsday machine, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you would think, you would think these long character scenes in the middle of this, you know, very exciting situation that we're in. It would just kill the pace, wouldn't you? But actually, because that's what this whole episode is about. It is a series of scenes like this. I don't know, it just doesn't chart. Do you know what I mean? They've got 4 hours where Rikah comes down and says, we think we'll be crushed in 4 hours. Do you want to speak to your son? Or else doesn't usually play out in real time. No, no, no. No. There's a really pretty Orion guy in Sick Bay that we only get glimpses of. Oh, this seems great. This is so good. There's a really pretty X-Borg whose hair was bouncing fabulously as she stormed along that corridor. Look at the arm. Look at the arm on the on the changeling guy. See, this is playing out. beat for beat, like scenes in DS9 is the adversary. Do you remember when they changed things on the defiant? and they're hunting them down through the corridors. It's like a duvet made out of chicken meat. There he is. Looks a bit like a halter, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, there's our trail, doctor. Yeah, I'm beginning to suspect that some of the Orion characters are made green in post-production. Um, because it's cheaper and easier. Just for the look of, there's some makeup on their faces. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Doctor Who did that once, remember? turning people green in post so that they didn't have to turn them green in the makeup chair. I love this line. I know my mother didn't hate you, but naming me after her 1st husband. I always thought that was very old. Well, I love how this is told. This is so well told. Picard undercutsap. Brilliant, doesn't he? By saying, well, I would have chosen that name as well. He was my best friend. Sorry, God. Well, because he's telling that story to the cadets, but now he's telling it more realistically. And why do you think Jack asks him that question? Is it because he was there overhearing him tell that story? Because he's the one who says what's the worst scrape you've ever been in? And he was in the background of that scene. So is he trying to elicit that? And this stuff where, where, you know, he says, oh, you were trying to get laid. And he says, yes, they were enthusiastic, they'd invited us. You know, like all of that stuff is really funny and human. I'll say an eight-year-old man saying those lines, though. I'm wondering if maybe because he was playing to the crowd, telling the story earlier, maybe he was playing to the crowd when he was talking about family. So if he gets a more realistic answer about this now, then maybe he wasn't actually telling the truth back then. Because by this point, has he already said that he doesn't want this and Picard says, no, no, I think it's because I want it. Do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, that was only this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do. And so he's telling this story, he is going to say, fuck, there we go. 10 fucking gruelling hours. Good for him. Um, and of course, all of that plays into the solution as well. You know, with firing docking thrusters where, um, uh, you know flying blind. We've got Jack Crusher actually calling out the coordinates of the asteroids and him, you know, avoiding it and the 2 of them actually re- reenact that scene together on the Bridge of the Titan later on in the episode. He is Todd. You know what this means don't you? Now we've had one decently told backstory. We're going to get 10 terrible ones as a result. Yeah, except that we don't. Look we get this. Oh, God. I just want to watch him act in this thing. He's so good. It's our masterclass in not doing too much. and having a massive impact. And Picard's reaction to it, I think, is very good too. Because remember that he doesn't he doesn't pull any shit on Ben when Ben Sisco confronts him about it. You look at Patrick Stewart. It's exactly the same face. Yeah. That sort of shame. this is a fair call. It's kind of like when when Jack tells him off and said the grease monkey line, which will come in later. When Jack tells him off, he just says, no, no, no, like I accept this, and then he sort of walks off. As if he doesn't deserve it. It's so cold as well, though. It's so cod. The idea that there were 50 people. There's a 10 man shuttle pod left. It's so shit. It should be terrible. And it's not. It's so powerful. It's really well done by him, but I also think the voice, like we get the sound of the battle as well. Just like not very loud or anything, but I think that that works. And I do think the dialogue is good, you know, as if space was on fire, they were all my Jack Crusher, all of that. The reaction shots are great as well because you cut to Jack, whose face is basically, why am I being told this? Because he doesn't know at this point that Picard was part of this. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he looks he just looks lost. Yeah. Yeah, it's a cry and shame, you know, that they only found him in three. I would love to have seen more of him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, uh, Lieutenant Shacks came back from the dead, uh so I just think we get uh, Liam Shaw back from the dead somehow and get him into Star Trek legacy. The other character, similar to this where I really felt as if they were onto something, was the lawker in series one of Discovery. And they cut that short as well. God damn it, you know. He was great. He was really good. In fact, I'd like to see them go head to head naked, preferably. I mean, sure, look at it. a beautiful man. He's and he looks better. He looks better now than he did in that Enterprise episode, I have to say. What's mad is he's effectively telling us stuff we already know. Stuff that we've seen the aftermoth of. something we've seen in emissary. But look at that shot of him looking and remembering that himself like making him remember it. Like it works. Oh, this line. Forget about all that weird shit on the Stargazer, the real Borga still out there. And one of the things that annoyed me was that I missed that line the 1st time through. And so I was wondering, so what about Picard season two? Everyone says we haven't heard from the Borg for 10 years, but didn't we hear from them last year in season 2? And so we just get a line of dialogue dismissing them as not the real Borg. They're the Agnes Borg. Oh, you love how he weaponizes old man. Where was your old man over there? Because that's a familial term and they're not familiar at all. Guys, great. It's such great dialogue And we don't say this about the next show. Look at that. He just gets up and says, I understand, and then and Shaw calls for the arch, doesn't he? Like, it's anyway, it's really very good. That's a great scene. It's not like a lynch scene of the season. I think it's great But this is funny. Like now he kind of realises that all of them are looking at him in horror. What an absolute fucking asshole he is. Wes, what's the line he says about, I couldn't believe I got chosen just, I'm just, uh, dipshit from Chicago. and so, and then Picard uses it later when he goes through his quarters. I'm so sorry. It must be the last person that, I must be the last person you want to see, even if you are a dip shit from Chicago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm coming in. So funny. Yeah, so funny. And the way that he breaks that whole thing. Oh, here we go. Here we go. He's Beverly coming to solve the problem It's building a building to a crescendo, Jean-Luc. Ringing matter, expelling energy. So we could be back in next gen now. Reconstituting the matter. Consuming the energy? That's reasonably straight. I like this dialogue because it is just it's turning matter into energy, but it's not doing it in the way we expect something else is going on. Like, it's reasonably simple and then she just does her, it's like contraction. I was so baffled in the early scenes where she was there, counted down. What is she doing? And how this ties into her job, her role in the next generation. is just inspired. It's great. And she's interested in metaphasic energy, as we know, from various things, not sub-rosa, but, oh, yeah, no, I was thinking of suspicions. Of course I was. Two absolute suspicions and maybe, oh, anyway, that... The sad truth is, Nathan, you know, or rather the happy truth is because we are doing these fabulously sustained long seasons, you know, one story, is we've got no place at all for subrosa and suspicions anymore. No, yeah, that's right. That's right. What, what a pity. But but what I do like is that it ends in a very sort of high camp high comedy Star Trek way. He just said, Bob's your uncle, funny, your eyes. That is your aunt. English people say that all the time. don't they? No, no, no. That is, I'm like, oh, hair fairy, fairly often at work, yeah. It's really good. We've got some very old sayings over it. And he also says space babies as well, literally. My God, they just referenced the counter of PowerPoint. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's wonderful, isn't it? And that is what it is. That's embracing Star Trek. And because this is the important scene. They have to win him over and how do they do it, they win him over by saying the thing that Picard himself has been saying to the cadets in the flashback, and Beverly just saying, why don't we do what we've just always done? Which is we just do the thing in order to get out of the problem? We don't just sit here. We be the crew of the enterprise and and, you know, get out of this problem. It's great. It's so good Remember, I said to you, there was so much visual shorthand of the next generation in this episode. Just being around this conference table with that computer bank on the wall there. I'm just immediately taken. It's the next chin. This is what we wanted though, right? This is what we wanted when Picard started. Yeah, but I am not sorry that they didn't go there straight away because I think we would have got one season and then we wouldn't have done anything else. And I... It was ambitious, I think. I don't think it was entirely successful, but it was ambitious. I think 2 is more successful than one. But neither of them are hugely successful. I like to quite a lot. I think 2 has interesting. I really like this to say. climax to one. I thought the last episode one was great. Yeah. Yeah, there's all sorts of good stuff in both. I would have been sorry to miss them. And they did give Deanna and Riker some important backstory that's played into 3 here. In a way, this is the more obvious approach, isn't there? But look at the reaction again. You know, like this this season has been, you know, given all the awards, all the accolades. Yeah. But I don't think I think when the... I don't think we would have got this. Well, that's the weird thing because I read the passage, the pertinent passages in Patrick Stewart's. Sorry, that's a lot of alliteration in his autobiography, where he explicitly states it was his choice not to do this. He didn't want the next gen crew in. He said he'd come back to Star Trek if he had his a new crew and they were doing something completely different. And then he says in the next paragraph, I was wrong. Of course I was. We tried it. We did some interesting things. We, you know, built a solid cast. But in the end of the day, this is kind of what it's all about. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Gosh, these shots look beautiful too, from the outside, don't they? They sort of, as if there's moisture on the land. Well, the Fiji now. All of CG in Kersman track is gorgeous. There's the scene where they're flying back up. away from the gravity well through the asteroid belt and it's lit in this sort of really weird, like as if it's being practically lit from in front of them. It just looks so real. It looks so good. So in the adversary, um, in the very tense climax after Cisco's set the self-destruct, there's a sequence with uh, 2 Odos, where they have to try and decide which one is the change of evil changing Odo, and that's exactly what we do here. We've got a big tense climax, and then we have, um, What's her name? Young La Forge. Sydney La Forge, come in. Is she who she says she is? is a wonderful scene. I love that shot. What is Liam Shaw thinking when she when he hears this speech from Riker? Because this is a good speech. And this is Riker saying the things that Picard said, you know, I'm only as good as the rest of you, if we hang together, I know that we'll get through this. Look at his reaction, seek the guard. I need your help, despite the fact that you're indeed. I get shit from Chicago. But look at it. Nice. Is this response? That's sort of cutting wit. That wasn't there in the night, is I? I love that. That's a great addition to this. Yeah, I agree. I agree. You see, I'll see his eyes light up when he starts talking Tetlerabble now. Yep, yep. And it's that thing about these kids that we'll play in later. Do you remember that it's the kids who have been affected by the plot and so there comes a time where all of the attractive young people on the ship turn against these old people that have been wandering around the ship, which is kind of a bit great. So good. I think they chose the actor who played Jack Rusher well as well because I really believe him and Gates McFadden together, just like I did with Will Wheaton and Gaze McFadden. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In fact, it's odd because Will Wheaton doesn't appear in this season, does he? No, I think we did get to say goodbye to him at the end of series 2 of Picard. It was very memorable. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Just turn up in your own clothes. Will, it's fine. So this is the moment where they realise they're vulnerable to a changeling coming along and trying to fuck them over and that's what they're talking about now. And so she, she, you know, hits the thing, goes Commander Hansen to Captain Riker, and then we don't hear that conversation. We cut to just after that conversation's happened. We never hear it, right? Um, and so we know that they've planned something or that they've got some deal happening. But, um, we don't know what it is. And I think that's cool. I think that's sort of again, clever. And there. Sorry to interrupt, that, that, that, who doesn't get a word, who got everyone out of that room, shut the door, and the camera lingers on it for a second. I don't know, it's freaks directing this one. It's someone who's very aware of the actors. Yeah, I don't know whether Frakes does direct any of this. I don't know who directed this actually. Actually, I doubt he directed this one because he's in it. Yeah. Remember the offspring when he just got tossed across Tim forward. Well, he comes in, does his comedy kind of thing and then rushes out again. I think he could direct himself. He's so good though. But I mean, I mean, look at... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But he also keeps up with this sort of direction and this sort of look where it's told a bit more complexly and where the camera moves around a little bit more. Sometimes too much. Maybe. But he's absolutely responsible for that. Yeah, he, he, it's, say, busy direction of Jonathan Gray. It's that moment where he and he says Ensign La Forge, you know like he would have in season one. It's so good. So great. Rikus where he should be on the bridge, you know? The cameras is where the view screen is. So we're looking at them in the right direction. Perfect. And but then he does it with this warmth, you know, good luck everyone. He's smiles, cage. It's absolutely the moment. directed by Jonathan Freight. Ah, really? Bless him. He does such an incredible job. Well, he's still doing incredible work because I'm not. I do think this is the best episode of the season. Bravo, Jonathan Brakes. Look at this. Look at all of those asteroids lit from below and just how it feels vertiginous. You know, it feels like they're moving up a long distance away from things. You know, space is so flat in the 90s, but they manage to make this, like the sense that they're sinking and then the sense they're rising up out of something. It's that weird sort of vertiginous camera work they learn from Battlestar Galactica where you go around the ship in all different angles. But that was also being lit up by lightning flashes, which gave it extra drama as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you have you have the asteroids to give it some scale, I think. So what that conversation was, we discover was her telling Riker. No, no, no. That conversation that we didn't hear was her telling Riker that don't send anyone. Don't send anyone to help us. What? I don't mean to laugh. They've still got the fibre optics. yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, no, it's absolutely great. He's holding his thing in his mouth. like wise. It's the same wise that boy, I'm like, I have not changed at all. That's right. In fact, it looks like those fibre optics in the naked now, but you start pulling out. Yeah, yeah. Do you remember Boimler covered in them in those old scientists? Sorry, you were trying to make a very serious point. No, I'm just saying that like now we discover what that conversation was. The conversation was don't send Sydney forged down here to help us out. And so they know already that she's a changeling and we don't know they know. Like, that's why... Which plays it with just enough edge, the actress, doesn't she? You kind of know, even though she's still in character. But she says all of the famous things that people know about Sidney La Forge, you know, it's like my father was Geordie La Forge. He's a Starfleet legend. You're going to want my help. You know, like the changeling has access to just the things that everyone knows about her. Yes, the nickname that she gave to 7 of nine. Yeah, yeah, which is, and we have heard her use that before. Yeah, they made sure they included it in the previously on. yeah that's a bit rough. Yeah. Like, it's in the previously on, is her calling her Commander 7. I never thought the technology of 90s trek could get me so excited. This is really funny. She says she always calls me Commander 7 out of respect. So she gets to make the point to him and he says, yeah, good call. It's always so fractured. They don't give each other anch, do they? No, no. And yet, look, they work together so brilliantly. really good. Yeah, because he's not saying that in the cell come to life. That's great, isn't it? Multiple instructions, dead ahead. Oh my word. Yeah, doesn't it look so good? And so we reenact that scene. So brilliant. I'm... Do you know what? I think I've got a thing for, you know, magical special effects and things. So this bit in a minute where all these creatures emerge and the chorus comes in and it's all very grand. It's really... I was quite moved. I've got the technology now to make it as magical as it as it needs to be. I mean, you think back to encounter a foul point, you had those 2 jellyfish hanging in space. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think these jellyfish look adorable and hilarious. And I think that they're meant to. Like, I think they are meant to be sort of a little bit ridiculous because it's sort of gone grim dark Star Trek, which Star Trek Picard has been, you know, a fair amount, being rescued by real Star Trek by... Which is great. They did the same thing in the end of series one with all those fabulous flowers in space. Do you remember? So good. It's lovely to have a touch of that. Touch of the magic. Yeah, exactly. Although it's a bit much when somebody says, you know, to seek out new life. I swear it's Beverly Crusher. It is Beverly, and then and then Riker undercuts it by saying we should boldly get the hell out of here, which is fine. No, what you should have said was, we get the fucking point back right? But that's it. I think I think any cynicism at that point would have been misplaced. This is just straightforwardly we love Star Trek and this is what Star Trek's about. and she's fangirling about Star Trek in that line. Even this, this situation where something old and biological is going on, but presents itself as a dangerous situation until they figure it out. Like that is like illosium that is like preemptive strike in series 7. No, Priest is right. The one with the magical brick on the holodeck. Where's the life form that's growing on the ship? Yeah, yeah, like Verdeform City, um, emergence. Yeah. That's it. So really, nothing in this episode. It's stuff we haven't seen before. It's just repackaged in such a confident way. But even FarPoint is that where we discover that there's, it's like 2 jellyfish, 2 space jellyfish in love, you know, like. The violins play us, the 2 tendrils come together, inspector. Ronby is so horny. I bet Ronda is watching that with a tear and it's like, oh, God. They're going to fuck. You're right, though. It is a lovely collision here. Yeah. The gun and the frock of Star Trek. Yeah, exactly. exactly right And we win by being Star Trek. I love how they all breathe out. Like they all breathe out because we've had the, uh, we've had the um, life support off just for the last few minutes. Couldn't they just have, could they have opened an airlock just once so we could see everyone bracing against the console? No, because I mean, so they, it was like they were 92% there and they just had to turn the thing off so that they could absolutely make sure they caught the wave and now they've caught the wave. They're just killing it. I love where Picard says, gun it to, um, to Ensel La Forge. So good. It just feels like distilled Star Trek. Yeah, absolutely. Isn't Tavine great? So she's she's Vulcan, but apparently she's got a Delton grandmother, which is why she has no hair. So she's the same race as Ailea from Star Trek, the motionless picture. But like beyond beyond the plot points that we've talked about things like that that reminds us of the past. There's Dominion from DS9, you've got 7 and 9 from Voyager. And then right at the heart of it is the TNG crew because they are 90s trek, really. As far as the public is concerned. Look at this. This is so good. She's giving such a great speech too. Open your jaws wide enough and eventually, yeah, they've they work into walk into the mouth of the beast and then he just flings that asteroid. So, you know that like she has no crew because we don't have to pay for her to have a crew. until a bit later. And so... She's good enough. But they hear they speak and I thought that they must have been the people from... Uh, I want to say schisms. Is it schisms? What's the one where they're being kidnapped in the night and? Oh, they're like weird insect or whatever? And they make that sort of clicking mouth noises and clicks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like these guys do. Sorry, can we just have a 2nd please? Again, the William Riker, who just threw an enormous rock out of Dominion ship. I thought that that was slightly spoiled by the fact that someone said you threw a rock at the ship. It was kind of like, yeah, we did see that. Okay, the special effects. Excuse me, you thought that was a bit much, but not to seek out new life. Oh, no, no, no, because like I said, you can't be cynical at this moment. This is the moment of magic. I feel as if... Disney's taking over Star Trek. They've got big googly eyes and they blink. They're adorable. They're so cute. Like, like you, this, this should always be a part of Star Trek. This the sort of the silly and the fun. But again, there's a great character moment where you get just a shot of Shaw, and you wonder whether some of that cynicism and some of that defensiveness is dropping away as he sees this, and you aren't told, but you're just invited to think about it for a second. It's so good. Look at that pretty Bajoran boy. Yeah, there's the shot of Shaw. And we even stop and look at him for a little moment, you know, and nothing is particularly said about what's going on in his head, but we're just invited to wonder. It's so good. So good. Half the winds in this episode has been the reaction shots. So I'm wondering if because we've got an access director there that's why this is as good as it is. maybe you're right. Oh, gosh, Sydney is so beautiful. Because you could do all the plot Bs, but if you don't get the character stuff right. It's going to be a failure. Oh my god, look at them. Look at those creatures. They're so great, aren't they? sort of half octopus, half daddy long legs. Yeah, yeah, they're sort of weird squids. They great. I think that, you know, that's just a perfect ending. absolutely brilliant. Now, here we go. so look at this. He's looking around and he has no one. They're all smiling at one another. Then he looks across at Picard. And then we go back to this thing where he's talking about what your crew do. It's so good, isn't it? Well, it's such an uplifting moment and then it really... Yeah, in a second, yeah. Well, the look that Picard gave him there was like, look, this is what you could have. Yeah, but then he remembers him. Like, Picard remembers him. This is Picard remembering, I think. And we're not told that, but when we come back, he looks so stricken, after we've seen this, there, he looks up and there there's Jack. It looks like he's looking at Jack. and now we have Jack looking back at him. Do you know what I mean? Like we're cutting between these 2 sequences. We've said this a lot about the editing in this, haven't we about? Yeah, yeah. sort of how precise it is. Well, because everything is told so much more straightforwardly in original trek, you would never have one scene intercutting with another scene that's happening afterwards or anything like that. And this staff where we're cutting between them. That's him realising. See? Yeah. The camera goes, his eyebrow just drops a little bit. We cut back. He sees that the guy, he sees that Jack's gone, and wonders about him, and there he is horrified that that's what he's done, that he actually drove Jack away inadvertently. What makes it is the sort of look of satisfaction on Picard's face in the past that he's impressed the crowd. You're like, oh, no. And this too, like this scene with Deanna, and I'm so glad it's not the only Deanna we get. She actually gets to be here in person. Um, but she's in tears for a lot of this. Like, she's super upset and super alert. Tears in picard. But yeah, yeah, yeah. with those, there's those beautiful moments in in the Penthe that we talked about. Um, but I like, I like this. And then later, when we cut back and there's no dialogue. She's actually laughing and that she's loosened up around him and I think that's really beautiful. I don't mind seeing a little bit more of the kickoffs, Troy, though you know. I know, I know, she's a woman. I know she feels things. I know she's an empath, but she could be a bit kick-off occasionally. Yeah, yeah. That was always great. But I do like her, see, see, that, that's her reaction to his reaction to... You haven't said anything as lovely as that. He was talking about the squid, you know, the squidhead guys. You know, um, I'm sorry, and I'm going to fix him. My god, this stuff is so great. I mean, we didn't have relationship scenes in the 90s. Let alone resolutions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But also just that thing where that space goes from being black and empty and reminding him of his son's death to becoming a source of life and wonder and joy. And look, she's starting to, she will, will cut back, but she'll she'll, um, she'll be laughing and sort of much more chill. It reminds me of something you told me, which I thought were very cutting, but also extremely true. And that is, it's, what if the next generation crew? Just for one season were reimagined as actual characters. Yeah, yeah. They succeeded. Yeah, that's what they do here. And they do it with, like, I just think Marina is never better than Independent. like, you know what? This is the audience of today. They love mysteries like this red door, don't they? This is the thing that people leap on now. There's not the wonderful acting. It's like, no, what's behind the red door? But I mean, I think that's good. That's our cliffhanger. We've resolved this and everything's good. We're on a high again. Next week we have Ensign Rowe coming along. Oh, my God. Do you know what? Yeah, episode is superb. Really good. Yeah. I don't like the ending. the episode itself is great. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we'll talk about that another day. We're never going to see Row again, so killing her off is probably a good way of selling that she was telling the truth. I like, I almost want to, like, applause, Jonathan Frakes. for making that episode, which is effectively a bottle episode because we are entirely shipbound. Yep. So gripping. Yeah, yeah. I love this too, these closing credits. You know, we both loved the opening credits of Picard series one and two, and the music, and I missed that a bit here, and I can see why they didn't go with it. And they went with something much more Star Trek, the Next Generation. But I love seeing these terrific, you know, the displays and all of that over the closing credits. I hate to tell you this, but I'm watching on Prime. So the 2nd it cut to the credits, it's now gone to an advert on Amazon. Oh, that's upsetting. I'm watching the credits. So I can't see any of it. Yeah. They do look pretty great. Yeah, that's really good, isn't it? That was really something. I would say it's actually exceptional. I don't think there's a beat that doesn't work in this episode. I think there's a character that isn't firing on all cylinders. Visually, it's arresting. The dialogue is fantastic. They can even make a backstory sing. which, you know, many a Star Trek episode fails to do. And the acting is extraordinarily good. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know. And I think I think some of it comes with age. You're getting some great performances out of very old actors that have their trade the hard way. But, yeah, it's amazingly good. I'll be interesting for us to do a 2nd half of the season episode just to see if it's still sort of firing on all cylinders as it is here. But this is fantastic. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I think it's because they're being given better material and that this is not what Star Trek the Next Generation was, which was a procedural. This is absolutely something a bit more interesting than that. And that was what the films did for original Star Trek, was they were more inventive. They gave the characters things to care about that they didn't have before. But this, you know, I think, does that even better for this crew. And so although the films, with the exception of 1st contact, I guess, are a bit crummy for next generation, this makes up for it I think. Having them back for just 10 hours, you know, 28 years later is pretty great. I think uh, we've spoken about how it takes Star Trek shows a couple of seasons to get it right. Like you learn the lessons the hard way. You try things out, some things don't work. The actors mature into their roles, et cetera, et cetera. I think that they have learned from series one and 2 because they pace this season better. There's not those sort of laggy episodes in the middle of the season. Are there wasn't 2 or we were? Um, But it just feels like they've sat down and said, this is the last time these actors are going to play these characters, we need to give them something incredible to bow out with and they've really, it's there in the writing as well as everything else. So it's just, this is Trek at its height. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. All right, it's the end of the episode, and it is time for us to work out what we are going to watch next, and I think it's inevitable that after watching this episode of Star Trek Picard that we should go back and watch an episode of Star Trek, The Next Generation. Oh, good call. Good, cool. See if it can be a good one. That's so really terrible. It's going to be the complete opposite of everything you've just watched. That's exactly it. It's going to absolutely undermine all of them. Where we realise the thing that we're celebrating is in fact really terrible. All right? Here goes I'm pressing the button. Your random Star Trek, the Next Generation episode is allegiance don't even remember what that is. What's that? Is it the one where the thing comes in and photocopies Picard and then he ends up in the thing with the Bolian woman and the big guy who eats people and it's really terrible? You should press it again. I'm sure we could get something worse than that, you know. Well, you probably could. It's pretty crab. I think fake Picard is singing seed shanties, you know, in 10 forward. It should have been one where Patrick Stewart had a chance to have some fun and he has no fun at all, in it? No, that's terrible. All right, let's try another one. This is a good one. It's Ronald D. Moore. It's season four, episode 7 reunion. Oh, that's fantastic, that episode. Hmm. The ending is brilliant. Surprising. It's really good. I think we should do it. Maybe we should. Let's continue our celebration of Star Trek the next generation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We only roll again and get code of honour. So I think we should just cut it one day. We will have to do it one day. But I'm in a good mood and I'm feeling well disposed to the crew of the Enterprise D. So let's do reunion. It's got just the most phenomenal turn from Susie Paxson in it as well. Awesome. Okay. Let's do it. Okay. You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley, where online at Untitled Star Trek Project com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts. Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb. This episode was recorded on the 2nd of January 2024 and released on the 5th of January. We'll see you next time for Star Trek, the Next Generation reunion. Okay. That is a great episode. Yeah, it is really good. And that's kind of like when you sort of realise that that's kind of, because it's, it's series 4. So is it leading into the... Yeah, series four. Yeah, game redemption, yeah. to redemption. Oh, and it's got Baby Alexander too, doesn't it? Tiny little... And it's also got, I think, is that the 1st one with Gowron? Garon Anduras. They both in it. Oh, she's there to... Oh, fabulous. And yeah, it's kind of like duress is evil, but he's sort of normal looking and then you've got Gauron. He just looks absolutely, yeah, so bizarre and terrifying. You think it's got to be true, surely. It was definitely a choice, that performance, wasn't it? Troubles, he didn't realise he was going to come back a 50 tow iron machine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, no, he's awesome. I'm you know, he's really great. I think his best is way of the warrior. All those bits where he's like, you have sided against us in battle. So good. Do this, we do not forgive. We think, do we think he's changeling in that, at that point, we do what we don't? Uh, no, it's Martok, isn't it? Yeah, Marto. Yeah, yeah, we do find out later that it's not here. I'm whispering in his ear. Yeah. Call some more. I can't wait till we do that one. Yeah, that's going to be brilliant. be superb. All right.