The Nagus

Hey, Joe. Hi. So tonight we are back aboard Deep Space 9 and it's the 1st year and the 10th or 11th episode, depending on how you count these things, it's the Nagus. It was a potential that this could have been really truly shit because it's a series one episode of DS9, you know, the batting average ain't great. However, we have somehow managed to set upon one of the 5 decent episodes of the 1st series and I thought this was an absolute delight. Yeah, I thought this was really terrific fun. So the other ones, when we were talking just now off mic. The other ones were, I said, duet, progress. Yep. Yep. In the hands of the prophets, you said. And this one. Yeah, pretty much they're like the big here. She's maybe Vortex as well, the Odo one. Yeah, vortex is pretty good. Otherwise, we've got a lot of sub sort of TNG episodes move along home. Well, what's the one where all of their, um, well, dramatis personae. Oh God, yes. Remember that? Yeah. Yeah, very well. Sadly. But I think this is really, really very good. And it's not obvious. Like if you were watching emissary, I don't think you would have predicted that we would start to have episodes, you know, on Star Trek, the Next Generation, you'll have a Geordie episode or a data episode or something like that. And so maybe we could guess that everyone in the opening credits would get their own episode. There'd be an episode called Dax, for instance, that was about Dax. And here we have our big quark episode. And it actually sort of experiments with something that is going to be a mainstay of the show, which is Quark and his kind of gang of various Ferengi that we meet over the years, including Wallace Sean, Zach. No, this is basically a test that you're right for sort of subgenre or Ferengi episodes that we're going to get. Which, you know, I'll be honest, I'll divisive. Some people absolutely love them and other people just can't bear them. And I get that, you know, like, really, when you're looking at Star Trek, you're not going for sort of cartoon characters bumbling about, you know, talking about proper, and but it... Yeah, maybe you are. And it's best it's really sharp. Really clever comedy and it's worst. profit and lace. You know? Yeah. But I mean, we had the 2 sort of House of Quark episodes, you know that one and the sequel that we've both done. And those aren't Ferengi heavy in particular. They're quark heavy. Well, you got once later on like Little Green Man and the magnificent Ferengi. I think they're just sublime of those episodes. There are sort of ones which fall in the middle. There's one in series 3 called Profit. No, Google, I can't remember what it's called. is a profit and loss, isn't it? No, that's not that swallow. the one where the negus makes contact with the wormhole aliens and he comes to DS9 and he's been turned like really good and benevolent and they're trying to figure out what's going on. And that one is a bit here and miss. And there's some one set on Ferenginar as well where it just feels like an episode of The Simpsons, you know? Right. I mean, this one, this is a little bit different from those in that they've only given the A plot to the Ferengi, and then there's a really strong B plot, which I think is beautiful, like just, like very affecting. Very well judged with a really very gentle, but very effective payoff. And so with the time split between those plots, it just feels like hanging around on the station for 45 minutes having fun. And like I think that's superb. I'm absolutely here for that. Because this is an absolutely a phrase that you have coin. You have a habit of doing this on podcasts, you know, of coining phrases, which then other people starts to nick. And Hang Time is a great description to point at DS9, because I think you could probably look at about half the episodes of DS9 and just title them Hang Time on the station. That's basically what they are. But I think the characters have to be well, the characters have to be very strong in order for that to be effective. And the setting has to be interesting as well. And I think, yeah, it's not the scores in both of those categories. I would like to talk to you about Wallace Shaun. Yeah. I've only, do you know what? I've only seen him in a couple of things that I know he's had a huge career and he started, you were mentioning a few bits you'd seen him in. Oh, well, obviously he's in Princess Bride, you know, which is terribly important and quotable. But I've mentioned before that my husband watched young Sheldon and I would wander in the room and sort of sit down for a bit and he was sort of bingeing it over a period of time. And Wallishawn's in that. And he combines being a funny sitcom character with being kind of genuine and likeable and sort of sweet. And here he gets to be a bit naughtier than that. Oh, so, so kinky. It's one of those old man, you know? He really is. But it's one of those things where you think, holy crap, you know it's like we've got Louise Fletcher Academy Award winner, Louise Fletcher, as a semi-regular character. We got Wallace Sean here as a semi-regular character. And as they go along, they total up more and more and more until you've got this enormous cast. Okay, so Sean was brought in for this role. And interestingly, Armond Shimmerman was a little bit concerned because he thought like Sean might take it 2 over the top. I mean I don't think he was entirely wrong. A little bit over the top. But David Livingston, who is responsible for the story here, not the telly player, that's Ira Stephen Bear. And he directed this episode as well, David says in my fabulous book from the latest charity shop hole, Captain's Logs, Sean was brilliant. It was Rick's idea to offer the parts of Wally Shaun, and I complimented him at the end of the show. I said to Wally, you are a totally fearless actor, you went for it and you didn't hold anything back. When he did his 1st scene, he didn't even know what a Ferengi was. I kept saying more, more, bigger, bigger. Let me tell you when it's too big. I never told him to put back after he got the initial thing down he sat on a stewart quarks, which was the 1st scene we shot, and the moment he opened his mouth, the whole stage lit up and the cast was cracking up. The car still quotes lines from the show with his inflection. Whenever someone makes a mistake on set, we'll say, and you failed miserably. It was a comedy and having him and Almond together was a treat for me. I mean, it paid off, didn't it? It was a risky cast and it paid off because he's back again and again. Yes, yeah, I know. It's fantastic. And, you know, he has his own kind of storylines and things. I think, you know, and it all starts here. I don't think this is where it ends up going. I think this is a little bit thinner than we normally get. I think it's a bit darker as well in places. Yeah, I think so too. And he's given a bit more of a nuanced performance of what he lands on, ultimately, which just to come in and just belt out fantastic one liars. Yeah. Lines like, was it boys? Together, we're going to retake an empire. I'll die in the attempt, you know? Such great. It's so funny. watch him in action. I think we should. So I'm going to count this in. Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off. I mean, this basically had to work, didn't it? Otherwise, we never would have had 40 episodes again after this. No, that's right. You know, presumably we would have had Quark episodes. So here, this makeup is clearly cast off nog or something, like he looks really familiar. Um, but he's Eric Trump, isn't he? He's like, uh, Zach's large adult son. He casts a very long shadow, Nathan. It's all that stuff about my father. You know, Eric Trump's always saying that. My father invented beetroot. Yes, I do too. He's got all these excited news. I'm going to take you to the live game. Look at this business. This is a little kid. He's like, he's playing 14. I don't know how old he is. He's tiny. Like he ends up being much taller than Avery. And like there's a little bit of business where he puts his shoe on the wrong foot and then gets exasperated and then puts it on the right foot because he's in such a hurry. And, you know, he knows his father's coming. And I think he's so, he just sells it. He's so good. You know, child actors don't have to be good. And I don't want to criticise his career post-DS night, but I haven't seen him do an awful lot, which is a shame, you know because the best of his episodes, the visitor, all the back to the show. He's giving like astonishingly good performances. But I really buy him here. You know, like I, I, he's really selling. something about this character. These early Jake and Knox subplots that I just adore. It really feels like hang time on the station. It's before we've gone sort of galactic politics and we're just hanging with the catholic and all of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I think too, the other thing is that this is a very kind of standard sitcom plot, which is, you know, the father dealing with his son growing up and becoming a teenager and becoming independent and being worried about how that will turn out. Look at the pecking order here. So Quark is yelling at ROM, and ROM is, ROM has given back some lost money to some Darbo girl or something, or some woman, and then, oh, here's the 1st rule of acquisition. Is this our first, you have the rules. You never give it back. I think it is. It certainly ain't the last. And I'll tell you now, that's another thing they merchandised eventually. Yeah, there's a book. Yeah. So, and now, and now Rom, who is a bit darker than we, he lands on I think. You know, he's the loveable. Oh, the whole 1st season in series 7. Yeah, he's a tweaking in series two. Yeah. Yeah, make him more kind of goofy. But here we get now he is bullying. No. about being at school. But there's something sort of slightly horrible about this bit. Do you know what I mean? It's still delivered in that wrong way and it's still sort of slightly comedic, but the idea is he doesn't want him going to school. What the hell is that? What do they say in that fucking shop? I know, but I thought that was a lovely shot going up because you yeah, it's just nothing about the episode, is it? They're selling freeze dried dinosaurs in that shop on the promenade over there. I love this line. Do you know what? There's a couple of times when they do this with Cork ending a filthy joke. and this time it's, your brother? I thought it was your wife and there's one in series 4 where he goes, and he said, that's not my antenna. But we actually heard Morn laugh there. Yes, like mourn actually laughs. You hear him? Right? Okay. And what's he called? He's a... Lemarian. Yeah, that's it. And they never talk on Discovery. We have them on Discovery but they never talk. That may be years. But you could only imagine Wallace Sean's face when he was presenting this. Well, he's kind of funny looking. Like he is a comedy character actor. He is sort of funny looking, but this is really grotesque. Nathan, he don't know nothing like that. That is that is true. And you know what? He's got the most astonishing ear hair coming up. Later on, he gets a brush and he just starts like grooming it. Like he's really sexy, you know? It's so great. So he's here to experience Quark's pawn collection. Well, that sort of a side issue, isn't it? He does have a real reason for being here. Oh, yeah, yeah, but essentially we're starting off with porn. Is that right? This is a running threat in Quarks throughout all the people. Fuck on the holodeck. And, you know... I'm just going to say, I'm not going to say uses the hollow suite holodeck forum. I think it's more salacious than TNG would ever be. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's sort of an acceptance of debauchery in quarks that you would never get intent forward. Isn't there something in lower decks about how disgusting it is to clean out the holiday. I'm the one who wants to clean the walls when they're done. Yeah. Oh my God. Who would want that job? I mean, I've got, you know, like, oh, maybe I shouldn't go here but you know, in those gay saunas, you know, someone's got to do that job. Yeah, that's, I guess that's true. Someone's role this very second. They probably have a hose. They probably hose things down. Nathan, are so stately. So boring, aren't they? Do you know what? I could use this as like, you know, sort of meditative exercise to fall asleep to. these titles. I don't think that was the effect they were going for, you know? No, I think the music is really good. Like, I think is it the best 90s trek theme? It's it's apart from Faith of the Heart, obviously. You are bad, man. It's nice. I prefer it when it's jazzed up and I know you prefer it here. Yeah, well, I mean, it has to be jazzed up because the show changes, but when it's a lonely outpost on the distant fringes of the galaxy. This is actually quite nice, I think. Actually, it does express that, doesn't it? Did you ever see the original designs, some of the original designs of the DS9 when it was going to be a Starfleet base? Oh my god, that looks so boring. It's just like, you know, your stock Starfleet based. Then they took upon Yeah, we make it Cardassian, we set it in Bajor, and they did it as a complete circle. So the pylon's all touched and they were like, this ain't working. This ain't working. And eventually someone went, well, let's just take the top off and the bottom off. they were like, there you go. They wanted something that when you saw it, you knew immediately that Steve Space 9 and no other show. And I think they succeeded at that. Well, I mean, that's what they did with the original enterprise. All right. So I'm a school teacher and I am going to say that O'Brien is really shit at this. And it's not a very convincing schoolroom in the future. I do like the thread of this, though, that they run through the 1st couple of seasons. It's nicer when it's Keiko and it's brilliantly done in the hands of the prophets where Kai Winn walks in. So you're committing splashism talk. Yeah. Yeah, so. And there is something here too, where like... There's something about how racist towards Ferengi's human beings are... is a problem. Yeah, we get it from Cisco. And one of the things I think that informs Cisco's reaction to Jake at the end is that he said no humans and Ferengis tend not to get on. Do you know what I mean? And this is Starfleet, we should be trying to get on. And so he's a little bit bashed, I think. Yeah, yeah. There was a very anti-Ferengi feeling in TNG because they were supposed to be the villains when they 1st came in. Yeah, they realised... Yeah, fucking ridiculous. We can't go with it. in rompers with the sort of big ears and stuff and they kind of went actually. But do you know, they address it. What you just said at that point about Starfleet being racist about throwing if they dress it in the Jem'Hadar at the end of season 2 and court gets this massive speech where he says, you don't like Ferengis and, you know, you're happy to tell us and yet you're in this amazing tolerant federation of planet. It's a great thing. really good. Lots of motor. remember the bit in Wear of the Warrior? It's so bubbly and cloy, just like the Federation. He is critical of the Federation a lot, and I think with good reason. But here, here, Jake is friends with Nog, he's not reaching out or anything like that. They genuinely like each other and they hang out together. And that's better than Cisco has managed and the Federation is managed with the Ferengi generally. And so look how little he is. That's not the most compassionate or tolerant of men. No, I wouldn't pick him to be a supply teacher. in a million years. Yeah, it's his wife's nepotism. Oh, look at that drink there. What's that? Yeah, silken sunrise, I think. What is it about the guest characters on Night's Trek having these enormous book Silent? Uh, like... So this is like Mr. Harm only for the Nagus. But why is someone called Tiny Ron? They hard do. No later on in the episode where he can't walk and he's got his arm around him and he's having to stoop really low. It's such funny visual. Yeah, so Quark's scared, isn't he? The Nagus has realised his incredible success having a bar so close to the wormhole that he's going to come in and nab it off him. Yeah, yeah. But his plaids are bigger than that. And sillier. Much sillier. I'm sure involved. Here we go. There he is. So this is our 1st proper look at him, isn't it? He 1st line is him going, good program. Yeah, yeah. My father needs a ramp. See, the my father, every my father line, I'm imagining Eric Trump saying it. Because he is also useless, isn't he? Like he is a fucking idiot. What's his name? Cracks. Cracks. He's an idiot. going to be the naked anymore. He's like, I'm not as greedy as I used to be. Yes, you are. More so. I love that line. I love that I'm not as greedy as I used to be. I think that's so funny. I've been listening to your criticisms of the judgery lift. So they're trying to repair it for you around. You're fixing it. Brilliant. I don't know. Like they have holodecks. Why don't they have like a giant, you know, they all go onto the holiday and they're in a classroom full of other children who are in a classroom. I know, it just seems... You know, Cup series 7. They kind of a baron of that left a bit, and they just beam into ops, which is kind of what they should be doing, really. Well, it's hard to tell what's cheaper and what isn't. The lift is not great though. But yeah, look, his, his, um, he's O'Brien being racist about Nog. Separate him from your son. Yeah, wanting to separate, you know, the whole point of the federation is supposed to be a mixture of cultures that are learning from each other. Yeah. And and like the reason that Cisco doesn't do it isn't because of that isn't because we should be making cross-cultural connections. It's because he knows that in a face off, he'd lose because Jake is a teenage boy. You know, they want to, you know, like they, Brian's going, oh, I doubt that. You know, really? Your daughter's quite young. But you know what's really interesting? is in series 6 when Nog is a commissioned officer. There's a scene between Nog and O'Brien where he goes, no, you're going to have to start calling me sir. Like that's how much log is developed in this series. Oh, did you notice when Tiny Ron was eating the the worms, whatever they're called? He's eating the only one that's a different colour because that's Marzipan or something like that. Okay, the rest of them are real worms. Yeah. They set up the Venetian blinds for the Godfather scene in front of the window. Yeah, yeah. This is a lovely thought. Well, that's what that is too. Giant lazy Susan he's got going on. Yeah, it's at multi-level. Yeah, see, the other thing is, if this had been a Federation station, it's not just that we wouldn't have had Quark necessarily or whatever. Oh my god, he... That's awesome. But the visuals would have been much more boring. That's, you know, look at what Voyager looks like or even the enterprise, you know, those corridors are terribly boring. And like, you know, I complain about the lack of reflective surfaces here, but each kind of close-up has little interesting details in the background for kind of no reason. which is something we just couldn't have had. And like round windows and all of that sort of stuff. I would never have happened. PS9's got sort of like more practical lighting in the set than any other 90s shows, isn't it? Absolutely. Yeah. If they want to, they can light it in really interesting ways. Sometimes they don't. Yeah. No. Yeah, that's right. But here I think it looks really good. There's a line in a minute that makes me crack up every single time because it was like when I 1st watched it, I was like, oh, I wish my mum would say this to me where he goes, and go to your room and no studying. That's great. isn't it? Oh, 0 dear. Oh, say, look. See, Zach doesn't love his large adult son. He's so disapproving of him. He's given this toothpick now. We literally see him picking worms out of his teeth. Yeah. It's really great, isn't it? Instantly getting into it. Don't we have a, don't they have a grinder? Like, at some point, there's a grinder thing that Frankie has to sharpen their teeth. Because Warf, uh, when Not goes off to Starfleet Academy, he sells all of his possessions. So wharf buys it and goes, ooh, how much? And we see him have a go of it on his own teeth. Here we go. Yeah. Go to your room and no studying. I think Ira Bear, like Rumour, can turn a phrase. Like he can turn a comedy line and this has got some gems in it. Yeah, I think so too. I think there are some really funny bits. Like, um, when he dies, when the Nagus dies, they say it's a, like infection of the tympanic membrane or something, which is your eardrum, because they're prankies, they have big fucking ears and that's the thing. So a teardrop infections fatal. Can I tell you something about that? Because one of my exes was a Star Trek fan, and we watched it. It's not inf together. And every time I found him too boring, I fell into one of those trance, he was like, oh... Like, like the... It's such a low key effort, death. I love it. But it's an a colony episode, so you can kind of just go with it you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It has to be silly. We have to. I mean, they're not going to care anyway, but it has to be kind of sealed. Now cork's intrigued. He needs his services as a host for this fantastic conference that's going to occur. I think I think Kira says something racist now as well. Ah, okay. Yeah, no, it's like a silverware. silverware. Yeah. It's not great, is it? And Dax does as well. Like, there's a very strange scene with Dax, which I'm looking forward to commenting on, but I just... Well, I do love the fact as they go along. She immerses herself in Ferengi culture and then some, doesn't she? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because of course she does. I haven't quite nailed her yet. Can I just say the amount of ham that is served up in this conference scene? I think there's something like, I'm assuming it was quoted as saying that they were all wearing their makeup and no one knew who anyone was. They was at a point where no one was used to anyone's makeup. So everyone's, oh, poor Moore look, gonna go away. It's his bar. What's he going to do? is finished work. has to go. That's terrible. I mean, it's more the best long term, like visual gag. I just think he's great. He's really good. And they just don't forget him, right? He's in like the 2nd to last scene. In DS 9. Oh, this fella, look. He's the dangerous assassin Ferengi, you know? Oh, okay. Right. Well, he says to Cork later, doesn't it? You know, like, uh, I'll protect you. You're going to need it. Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh here we go. I do, don't you just love the fact, though, that they have, They haven't put the fault into making a massive plan for the Ferengi but just the fact that the wormhole exists. Like, right, something to exploit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's a very sort of easy thing. Later on, they have to come up with plans, but the wormholes just appeared, and so it's like, all right, the Ferengue here, obviously they're looking for new markets. This is the gamble. This is the beginning of the seating of the Dominion War because them going into the Gamma Quadrant in the 2nd season. They meet the Dominion, don't they? They get, so they meet the dozeye, the terrible makeup, those eye in this bizarre, bizarre sort of gay sex comedy episode. very strange. Do you remember that one where the woman is dressing up as a man? Paul thinks the man's coming on to him and has lots of gay panic. It ain't great. But in the negotiations, the Dominion is mentioned. But it's kind of ceded here for them to go there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, look, look how little Jake is. He's such a baby. isn't that funny? You know what's amazing as well is right up to the point of Aaron Eisenberg's Steph. They were the best of friends these two. And they started that podcast together, didn't they? The podcast rule. podcast, yeah, yeah. Which he's Aaron Eisenberg's wife is still a part of. Oh, okay. It's really lovely. Sometimes behind the scenes stuff makes me smile. Is it a child? Is he at this point? He's an adult. Yeah, he's just a short person. I think, yeah, and I think because, you know, he wasn't sort of a standard looking actor, he didn't get the sort of parts that he wanted to get. But boy, did he get some opportunities in this show? Yeah, he's really good. He really is great. I love the fact that they're so devious, the Perengi, that everywhere they've been now, their reputation is tarnished and they're so excited about the fact they can go somewhere and con a load of people where no one knows who they are. Is this the makeup that we end up with because Wallace Sean is having real difficulty looking out through the holes in that mass to be honest with you. I can't see too much difference between Wallace, Sean and Jennifer Leanne in last week's episodes, do you know? That was some latex, wasn't it? These shows are so weird. I mean, like look at this. It's an entire room full of people wearing this stupid outfit. It's so funny. Imagine if you... like, I want to watch that. switched off and it was just... Oh, listen, best of all, no one has ever heard the name? Preggy. A reputation. stainless. I think we see these teeth over and over again in the future. Like, I think they just, like, I'm sure that Brunt's teeth are in there somewhere, you know, like, um, yeah, we do really. I feel like these are all like classic theatrical actors. They are truly giving it some, aren't they? I didn't remember to look it up and I might do it afterwards because there are people that I kind of recognise as that guy's from American TV. So I think they're... They must love doing something quirky like this, you know, slap a bit of latex on and come out. That line. I'm just not as greedy as I used to be. No? I like it when he says... I'm old. The fire dims, you know? I wasn't be about his Quark's reaction when he says his name. Isn't he? It's, doesn't he? The new brand niggers. Here we go. He's milking the moment. And they're all appalled and then realised they've all got to suck up to him because this is really happening. throwing their chairs all over the place. Oh, I love it. This is ridiculous. It's making us laugh, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. It's good, ridiculous. Oh, he's delivering this side as well. When he goes, I'm sure you do a wonderful job. I just love his delivery. What a short. Yeah, yeah. He's terrific. The thing I know most from is Toy Story when he's that dinosaur. Oh, yes, of course. I remember being in the cinema going, that's the Grand Nagus. Ooh, Jase's got a thing about oatmeal, you know. He has oatmeal a lot. So awful. Awful, awful. It's something you can play with rather than eat if you have to do another take. There's one episode where he has a Coca-Cola, right, or a fizzy drink. Yeah, and he has his peppermint bread and he puts the bread in the Coke and it makes it fruffle over the place. Cisco looks appropriately appalled. So this, like, I really like this scene, like, I don't know. Um, what, the fact that he's explaining why he's frustrated and Cisco's empathising. Cisco is not really empathising, is he? He's kind of says sometimes this just doesn't work. Yeah, usually that they don't, but it's the thing. It's the... I can't remember whether we already knew. Did we already know that Nog can't read? No. And so he hasn't done his homework and O'Brien thinks that that's because he's naughty. And then he does the class clown thing of saying that a Vulcan stole it because they have no ethics. funny. And then I thought here it was spoiling it slightly. It was spoiling the reveal at the end by saying that Nog can't read. He can't even read. But I don't think it does that. I think if you've not seen this, because I really, really, really remember this episode and particularly this B plot really well. So I don't think it does spoil it. And so it also places it as, it's not just I want to hang out with my disreputable friend. It's like my friend is being denied opportunities and, and I like him and, you know, like there's already the hint there to us that he's a good boy. Like, he's a good boy, and that's the scary thing. That's the key of the best reveals, though, isn't it, is where the hints are there. But actually, I didn't enjoy the docs. I figured they'd be off. He says, you know, looking at anti-grad things. One point in this, they're looking at Vulcan's arse who's walking past. I mean, I've never felt like, I've like, that's real characters there, you know, they're watching someone walk past and admiring them. And it's so gorgeous, ending. And Cisco, it's, it's, it's, he doesn't say anything. He's just there in the shadows, admiring his son, you know? Yeah. And that's the thing. The parenthood thing, isn't it? Because like you bring kids up, but you don't, you can't make them turn out good. You know, you do what you can. But kids are kids. They're separate people. And that fear, you know, like he's, you've got O'Brien saying he's hanging around with the naughty boy in the school. You know, you should put a stop to that. And he says, I trust him. You know, I trust him and it turns out he's right to trust him. I did like, though, that he didn't, in that scene, basically say, I don't want you to see him. He says sometimes this doesn't work out. Because he could have exploited that moment, you know? No. Yeah, yeah. Oh, do you know what? I really liked, you're going to laugh at me now, because when I talk about 90s track execution, I realised how this was, because it's kind of, it's very dark, this room, and they're in silhouette a little bit, and the camera moves in around because Zec has to be right in front of the camera to make that joke about him falling into the trance work. And it's great. That's him doing it there. And he's just been he's just been thinking about porn, hasn't he? Or like where he's going to go to get his end away in his retirement or something. And now he's dead. Oh, dear God. So bloody stupid. I love it. I liked how economic. The storytelling was here as well. We go straight to the funeral. Like, yeah, yeah, look, that American thing where you have a giant photo. And he's like... so dignified, doesn't he? He just looks like he's got the shits with everyone. I think he's really cross. Some of the friendly culture, I'm like, ooh, that's, you know, a little dodgy, you know, the sexism and all that. But some of it, especially the vacuum performer. The freeze drive. I think that... Yeah, it's really good. What is it? It's my piece of Zack. I know, don't you says deadpan. How touching. Well, don't they want to do an autopsy on him and then they discover that that's him there in the little piles of plastic things. Oh, hang on. Who is that then? If the negative is still alive, who are they selling? Oh, just, you know, some guy, some guy. Oh, don't walk. Here we go. Magic is about to happen. Oh, exactly. overcome with grief, are we? Oh goodness. That's sceptre, you know. sceptre does the rounds a bit. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's it's a prop that stays with us for the next 7 years, isn't it? When Zach visits the station in series two. Cisco actually does kiss it. No, he's good with he's good with relations with other cultures. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, he's all over Kai Wen and she's horrible. Yeah, that my father thing, it's so Eric Trump, every time he talks about my father. I just, that's all I can hear. And Harry's totally emasculated at the end where he's like, yeah yeah, yeah. I was going to see his power. I promise. Terrible son. It's like talking to a clang arm. Oh, these two. Do you know what? Do you remember when you see casual clothes? No, no, no, but I love them hanging at this corner, which they do for 3 seasons. Yeah. And what's so funny is once he goes off to Starfleet, they walk away and then they just look at the empty corner. It's really sweet. And then later on, Odo says to Jake, well, I was never chasing you away. I was chasing Nog away, you know? Yeah, well there you go. Oh, look. Oh, bless. Is that so weird? It's like a night, there's an innocence to this, isn't there? It really is. Usually associate with DS9. No, but I don't know. Like Deep Face sign does valorize friendship and particularly friendship between man, I think. And I, you know, that's nice. And that little thing, like when you're a kid, like your friends like there's your parents, obviously, but your friends and your best friends, like, that's so important. You know, you don't have partners, you don't have anything like that. Maybe you have a girlfriend or whatever. But like that relationship, I just think, is so sweet. So many different types of friendships as well, aren't they? Like, odour of quork. That is absolutely a friend. Yeah, yeah. I'll never acknowledge it, but that episode where Odo smashes up his quarters. Look at this drone. So the drone has ears, like a Ferengi. goes past the window. I swear to God, you can see the string. I reckon that's CG. matted that in. I don't think anything on a string is going to move that quick. This thing through the window panel that's been destroyed. This is the only scene. The only concession to a Star Trek episode, isn't it? Where they talk a bit of technobabble. Yeah, yeah, yeah. he's got his he's got his tricorder out, doesn't he? going back to friendships very quickly. Obviously you've got O'Brien and Bashir, you've got Cisco and Dax you know, and all of these friendships, I can list tons. They all pay off in the latest seasons in lots of different ways. I mean, I love the fact that in the end, but she says to O'Brien you know, oh, you know, I love people, but I love you more O'Brien. He's basically saying he's in love with him. Yeah, yeah. Oh, so wait a sec. What are you doing here? Why is he in the thing? No, no, it's because, um, Oh, because he got nearly blowed up. Oh, wrong popping up, look. It's grand Nigga's Quark, actually. And I think, um, until the twist is revealed. We're supposed to think because he's so downtrodden that Rob would never have the cojones. Try and kill Quark. And do you know what? rewatching it because I remembered the B plot really well, but not the A plot as well. And so watching it, when it's reveal that ROM is part of the plot. Initially, I thought that he was kind of going along with him, you know, hoping to save his brother or whatever. Do you know what I mean? like that it wasn't real. And then I thought, oh, this is maybe season one, Rom, and this isn't where Rome actually ends up being eventually. And I guess that's what's happened. But I love the way that Quack reacts to it. And I think it's a classic sitcom moment. I like the bit where Ron presses his nose up to the airlock. Rams. Nice name for a bar, don't you think? But the payoff to all of that is quark's reaction in the last scene. I didn't think you had that nuts. I'm going to get you a drink. exactly it. So it reminds me of the sitcom, right, where you've got a couple and the mother of one of them's coming over to stay. And for various reasons, they have to concoct this elaborate lie about some important thing and the live, the whole episode is about the maintaining the lie. And then the lie gets busted and the mother finds out about it. And then she says, oh, well, you know, I'm just touched that you thought it was worth going to all that trouble just for me and that it gets for forgiven. And that's what I thought this was. It's like, yes, you tried to kill me and all of that, but I'm I just, you know, I'm touched by how you went to so much trouble. Just to get rid of me. What I took from that was that Ira Bear is always going to write quark and rom as Ferengi's and that's how Ferengi's would react. Oh, you tried to kill me. to take my bar. I am so proud of you. But I think it is just absolute classic sitcom reaction, you know like a standard sitcom reaction. This is a Godfather scene now. Yeah. And yet now you call me Nagos. as he strokes his strange mole like creature. Oh, look. So do you know, so as a joke, they cut in the Godfather theme, when the rushes came in and they presented it to Ira Sleeping Bear, and he's like, no, are we really doing this? broadcast if they were... Has he got a puppet there? Yeah, he's striking a puppet. It's a vole. Oh, that's the vault. what Voles are about. It's a Cardassian bowl because you see a dreadful one later on in series three. Look at it, God. Look at it. It's so shit. That's wonderful. Star Trek should have more puppets. I'm always here for puppets in the Star Trek. Absolutely. Do puppets. And so Cardassian involves are constantly chewing through the wires and stuff on this station, aren't they? Like they're a thing. They're rats, right? There's one where Corp comes running into Ops and runs up to O'Brien holding it, goes, it ran right across a double table. Oh my god. The whole sort of comic pace of this scene, race, like, now you call me Nagus. No, da, da. I'll split it with you 50-50. Well, I hope they've got a taste for sin for hole, then. Apparently, all you need to do to succeed as a grand nag is just hand out all these choice assignments for people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just, well, you know, the guy comes up with the idea and you just say, I'll have 50% of that. Thanks. Yes, you can do it. Sounds like a good deal to me. You see that lowering you out there for the name. I empathise with him a lot. He went, oh this benevolence wearies me. Honestly, that's how I live my life. So yeah, this is it. The reveal. This is it. Eric Trump is coming up with a new plan, which is to kill Quark. Oh, so yes. Yeah, so it was them. It was them. They did the locator, the locator bomb. And he, it is, like, it really is Rom's going to kill his brother. And obviously, season 7 Rom would never do that. And so they retooled the character at some point. Did you notice there was a moment there between 2 actors because Max Grodensheik is milking how long he's going to take to say all those lines. And the other guy, it's kind of going, it's using his hands. Come on, come on, come on. Here I go, my dear brother, you know. And then he pats him on the back as if to say, well done, you got it out. Well done. So this is the scene with Dax where Dax is being kind of racist and kind of. Maybe not. Series one, thanks, remember. They retooled her in 2 as well. Yeah, yeah. She, I actually think she's, uh, like it's a little bit weird. I guess if she's an old guy. Um, you know, having a sort of conservative approach to parenting. But later on we find out out he was a bit of a rake or at least, um Yeah. Yeah, the... I think initially the concept of Dax was that she was going to be the old man in the young man's body. And they realised this wasn't working. So that's why they turned her into a good time girl in series 2. Well, yeah, someone who's sort of so old that she kind of doesn't give a shit, you know, like in it and has, you know, a fair amount of chill and wisdom. I love how she, like, did she just tell, she told Ben to go and get her to go and get his son so that she could end up. Yeah, that's right. She turned really into the... and ended up eating my dinner. Yeah. Oh, here we go. Here we go. This is the scene. Oh, it's so good. And do you know like, do you remember when they were trying to teach? Uhura. And, I mean, it could have been that. It could have been agonising. It's really good, isn't it? Like, what a sweet kid. And like he, oh. And I think the payoff with their last scene where he just calls him over, kisses him and says, you know, you're a good kid. I love how taxile they are. Look at them. And I'm so glad he doesn't interrupt. It would have been so dreadful if he'd interrupted them that look. Look at Avery. And it's kind of like, wow, I was a bit of a prick. I said I trusted him. I really, really properly should have trusted him. And, you know, he's good. What a good boy. You realise what they've done here as well, isn't it? They've reverse what we normally get. normally will get a very touching or dramatic A-plot and a funny B-plot. Yeah. Here, we've got a, you know, massively funny A plot and a really sweet B plot. But I do think in series one, 2, and 3 of DS9, I want to say half the time, the B plots are better than the A plots. There's some cracking ones. The one where Nok wants to join Starfleet Academy. That's a B plot and it's phenomenally good. Yeah, like think about where that goes. Oh, I feel so sorry for wrong here. He says, you have so much and I have so little. It says that's how it should be. Yeah, yeah, that's right. We're capitalists. Fuck off. I'm not having any... That's what happened. what's so interesting with their relationship is ultimately that power dynamic completely changes. And Rob ends up with everything at the end of the series. He's up in naked. We end up with the moon and his Nagus and everything. Yeah. Oh, there's a dreadful CGI effect in the minute of Odo slooping down into... Oh, he's the glass. I love, though, that discovery. I think that is really kind of hilarious. There are 5 glasses, you know, like when he realises that they've kind of fallen for it. How did, how did they not know that one of the classes was, was, uh Odo? And this is all classic comedy now, because we know he's off to be executed. He's saying, I'm going to take one of the girls with me. They're going, you know, your sheer presence will be enough, you know. It's funny. It's you know, it's not particularly original, but it's funny. No, no, no, but I mean, it is, it's Star Trek, though. When I did a comedy. Can you see why people wouldn't like this, though? Like why people that just don't enjoy fun wouldn't like this. Yeah, yeah, people who hate fun. Where's the space anomalies? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Look. Oh yeah, that is pretty terrible, isn't it? Well, what are you doing? Well, this is you. They used him quite a bit as a shapeshifter in those early years. Yeah, yeah. It was always the sort of thing, the sort of high concept thing where they would eventually go actually Renee's fine. We'll just get him to be Renee and we don't need to do all of that stuff. Yeah, I mean, sometimes they put goo on his face and things like that. It's a bit extreme. Yeah, yuck. Please don't. Yeah, yeah, this is more in an airlock here. Are you sure there's not reflective circus in this window? Well, sort of. Yeah. Yeah, there you go. Look, there's lights reflecting off that. Oh, there you go. Perspect there. Perfect. I love how David Libson is shooting from their POVs. That's lovely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now look. They threaten this all the way through DS9, being shoved out of an air log. We worry all the time. So it's nice to actually see it happening. Yeah, yeah. Do you think this is transparent aluminium? Oh, transparent aluminum. aluminum. Hello, computer. How do you know he didn't invent the thing? Look at him pushing his nose up against. That's so great because you can imagine the makeup person saying don't touch the nose to anything. You know, you'll ruin it, but obviously that was fine. That worked well. Didn't leave you. But you never read the story when Kieran Odo snogged in his way at the end. And his whole mouth came away. Now the visitor said it was the least sexy kiss you'd ever had. Oh, yeah. She had this eggy smelling latex stuck on her face. Dear, dear. Just goes to show. They went for it though, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is a great reveal as well, I thought. It would have been a waste had they got rid of him. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it, yeah. I mean, it has to work like this. In retrospect, it absolutely has to work like this. And they would have found some way of bringing him back otherwise because he's so great, but they weren't stupid enough to kill him off in the 1st place, I think. He failed miserably. What's a shame is the kind of the last 2 episodes that he's in is Profit and Lace and the Emperor's New Cloak, and those aren't really great episodes. No, I don't think. You got the intendant literally sitting on his lap saying, have a seat, big boy. You know, I can see. Yeah, incorrect. Although he does turn up in the 2nd to last episode, you know, when he offers the Nagus ship to Rome. It's a wonderful scene with the static where he's swearing his head off, but the static's bleeping or all of his sweats. Oh here we go. And then yes, yes. was running smoothly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just you are a shitzan, you are a crappy Ferengi. It's exactly like Donald Trump and Eric. Eric will never get that hug from his father, but he so longs for. I really want to like the Lakers. I don't want think he's Donald Trump. Although, I will say, I know this is a comedy episode so we can let it pass. That is a really shit explanation as to why that they just died inadverted complications. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, again, it's sitcom logic, isn't it? Like, it's just silly. And, you know, usually we wouldn't accept a hand wave. We'd be like, well, this is pretty terrible, but it's a funny episode. But I mean, that reason, you know, I died to lie low to see what a shitty son you are and guess what I was proved right? You're terrible. And, ooh, do we have we have a good son, a good father and son in the B plot. Yeah. Oh, no. Oh, yeah, yeah. Stretching up in there, stretching it, you know. It's just a coincidence, I think. Such treachery deserves a reward. Yes, that's it. That's it. It's like, oh, I can't believe you went to all this trouble for me. I'm going to make you assistant manager of policy and clientele. What the hell does that mean? Yeah, I don't know. I just made it up. He made it up. Yep. And Quark never stops treating Ron badly. Like that's something that never changes. That is their dynamic. No, he doesn't learn and he doesn't learn and get better. There's the Klingon babe. See, look, they have ethics or maybe they're... I think she's a Vulcan, isn't she? Sorry. I dont know why I said Klingon. Yeah, do you know, I think those jumping jar sticks are probably delicious, you know? It's like maple syrup. made from the sap of a tree. Okay. This holy crap. So here's another thing too. And it's this, like... Just how tactile, like how Avery's touching his head and kisses his forehead and is now touching his shoulders and stuff. I believe their father and son. I do too. I think it's beautiful. You know, did you see into the Spider-Verse? I did, yeah, I really thought it was broken. Do you remember Miles Morales and his father had that really really kind of warm physical relationship and stuff? And some of it ended up being about kind of like black fatherhood and stuff like that. And this, you know, you've got a show. It's really rare to have a black lead in a show. He's got a son and the way that it depicts their relationship, it's so well judged, it's something that the show gets absolutely right. Right from the beginning. Oh, yeah, right from the very 1st episode. But when interviewed post DS9, Avery Brooks fed, I gained a son from this show, he is my son, you know, and, you know, get me wrong, Avery Brooks is a bit gaga and, you know, he's a quirky man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. clearly that was his biggest takeaway from DS9. And actually for us, it's one of our biggest takeaways from DSI as well. I think it's beautiful. One of the best relationships in Star Trek. I really buy it and I just think it's lovely. And that, you know, like that, that was a very simple plot as well. And again, sort of operating in a sort of sitcom register, but just heartfelt and stuff. And I've held it together this time, but I did tear up a little bit watching both that scene where he discovers him teaching him to read and then he just leaves and then that scene there where he hugs him and doesn't tell him why. Like he hugs him, he gives him a kiss, you know, like he's super proud of him, but he doesn't actually say, oh, I was sneaking around trying to work out what terrible thing you were up to. And then I discovered, we've talked about, the character's on DS9 but that is one of the things it just scores really highly on, is we spend a lot of time with these characters in the same place. We follow their relationships developing and sort of really touching moments of realisation like that hit throughout the entire show. It's a huge strength of PS9 and it's a shame that the other 90s trek shows actually didn't lean into that a bit more. There's almost like a reset with the characters every week, you know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I think, I mean, DS9 is the thing that invents serialised trek the sort of thing that we get in discovery now and, you know discovery has a sort of shifting cast of additional characters, but obviously we haven't had that much time, given the number of episodes of discovery, they've been compared to Deep Space 9. But you can see that even though, uh, a Kurtzman Trek hasn't lent heavily on the iconography of Deep Space 9 so far, it does have respect for it. And I think it has learned some lessons about what Star Trek can and should be like from Deep Space 9. I think discovery is kind of hugely indebted to it for the way it's ended up. Do you know what I find interesting is you and I have done probably 6 or 7 DS9 episodes now. Yeah. 4 of them have been comedies. And none of them have lent into where the show went in the latter half of its run. like the political drama and the heavy arcs and things like that. Like, if people are just listening to this for their example of what DS9 is like, we are completely misrepresenting it sometimes. Yeah. So we haven't had, you know, things with Wayoon as a major character or the female shape shifter. We haven't had, you know, human... You can't win, yeah. Yeah, we've got some really, really good stuff to come. Look, we did in the pale moonlight, and I have to say that I, you know, like I see why everyone likes it, but it's not the thing that I think of when I think of what's great, Deep Space 9. And I think it's because I'm here for the hang time, basically, and I'm not completely sold on the sort of giant who's fighting who this week. I'm coming to to the conclusion that your favourite episodes of DS9 will always be hang time episodes with lots of funny, cute touching, sweet moments in them. All right, we've reached the end of the episode and it's time for us to work out what we're going to watch next time. And Joe, it's your turn to pick, I think. Yes, hello. I'm here with my finger poised on the button. As ever. Oh, no, as ever. Sorry. Like last time, I've selected a single series of Star Trek, and I feel as if we haven't watched William Shatner be beautiful and Hammy for a long time. So we're going to go back to the original series. We always have fun with it. Don't you think We do. We do. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely, we do. Oh, I had fun with that. I had fun with you with that. Okay. 54, 32, one. I'm not sure what this is. You're out of Star Trek, the original series episode is season two episode 17, a piece of the action. Oh, I think that, um, isn't it like 30s gangster planet? Oh. Oh, that one's really fun. Ah, that's a really good one. like an absolute classic. Well, you are allowed to pick the 1st one. Do you know what I was going to do this week? Go on. I was also going to pick the original series and I was just going to say, and we're going to pick the 3rd one that I roll, whatever it is. But we take a piece of the action. can pick it. I've already pressed it again, though. so sorry. I know, and it would have been fun, but actually, I want to do this one. I want to do this one because you've mentioned this title a couple of times recently and it ties into Strange New Wales a lot as well. It's season two, episode one, a mock time. Awesome. So it's Tapring and Stone and Spock and all of our old favourites. We were hanging out with a few weeks ago. Yeah. Come on. There'd be plenty to say about that one, wasn't there? Yeah. You do know that in an episode of Strange World, they quote, that musical cue. So we'll have that musical cue and everything. awesome. I let you into a secret. What's that? I've never seen a mock home. Oh, okay. Well, you will know the musical cue that I'm thinking of when you hear it because it is pretty fucking incredible. I mean, this is a popular episode, isn't it? This is a really popular original series episode. Yeah, yeah. That means that 2 weeks ago you didn't get my joke about Spock throwing Plough Meek soup at Christine. I mean, I average 5 out of 10. I'm getting your joke. So, you know, okay, fair enough. They're usually too smart for me, you know? No, this was just a reference. This was the lower decks riders would have thought it was too obvious. Well, let's watch it and then you can tell me the joke again. All right. Okay. All right, fantastic. Yep. We're heading to Vulcan then, is that right? Yeah, yeah. Let's do it It's gonna be exciting. You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley. We're online at Untitled Star Trek project.com where you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel. Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb. This episode was recorded on the 15th of August 2022 and released on the 26th of August. We'll see you next time for Star Trek, the original series, Amuck Time. Let me grab my phone quickly. I say that every time. I know I do. I know. That's just, you're telling me that to apologise for the fact that you're in your pants again. Oh, you can't hear me. You listen back to this, though. Huh? No, no, it's just the, it's roasting in here. I took as code for when I get up to get my phone, I'm just in my pants. Yeah, very often I am. Don't worry I did a whole one with a practical stranger. the other day and I had to keep doing this every time I got up. Well, don't bother you. Okay. All right, original series. Let me get it up.