Blaze of Glory

Hey, Joe. Hi. What on earth are we watching today? Today, Nathan, we are watching a season 5 episode of Deep Space 9 called Blaze of Glory. And it's a standalone episode that I don't need any background to understand. Is that right? Absolutely. This is, this is, you know, you know, peak 90s trek syndicated can be viewed out of order and it doesn't make any impact whatsoever on your viewing experience. So this actually is the final episode of a very important secondary character on Deep Space 9. Um, and that's Michael Eddington, who has been in the show since the beginning of series 3. Three, yeah. He was introducing the search as like Starfleet security coming in. And I think the idea was to create a bit of tension with Odo. But actually I didn't really go anywhere. Like, I don't think there was ever the intention initially to have Eddington be the head of the marquee, you know. No. But what happened was he was introduced. He kept turning up in like random episodes, as you know, the security guy. And then they had the episode at the end of the season, the adversary, where, you know, the changeling infiltrator was on the ship, and everybody was like, he's really shifted. What's going on with Eddington? And suddenly everybody was asking questions about this character like, what's his deal? And then I think, like, you said before, they kind of make it up as they go along, but they kind of listen to fan opinion as well and they're going, okay, let's do something with this character. And then in series four, so they wait nearly 2 seasons to drop that he is, you know, this terrorist leader. And then they run with it. They run with it in full the cause where they hit with like the double whammy twist of Eddington is the Marquis leader and Casty Yates is supplying goods to the Marquis, all in one episode. It's fantastic. He has a wonderful seat at the end with Cisco, where he condemns the Federation and calls them worse than the Borg. It's such a great scene. And Cisco's nostrils are flaring like you wouldn't believe. Did you watch for the uniform? I didn't, I didn't get the chance to watch it, but as always, I did read Michael's memory alpha entry. I get the impression that when they introduce him what they're trying to do. Like, there's already a character there to provide conflict with Odo, and that's Quark. And it's because Quark breaks rules. He's on the sort of wrong side. And so you've got Eddington coming at Odo from the other end because he's a real stickler for the rules. And that's clearly how they were trying to kind of position him. But I think he ends up being a better foil for Cisco. And I think that they respond well to their scenes together, which is why this episode is essentially just a 2 hander. Don't you think? So what you have, ultimately, is this trilogy of marquee episodes that finishes off the marquee storyline, essentially, for the cause, which exposes Eddington, for the uniform, which is where Cisco hunts him down and then Blaze of Glory, which then polishes Michael Eddington off. I think for the uniform is by far the strongest of the three. I think it's an absolute classic and it's potentially Avery Brooks's best performance at Cisco because he gets to be like blazingly terrifyingly angry. And he turns himself into like the villain of the piece because he knows that Eddington wants to play the hero. So he starts going around bombing planets and things. So Eddington comes out and he's like, I'm going to bomb that marquee planet unless you, and so Eddington can ride out as the hero and be like, oh, sacrifice myself, you know, it's amazingly good. And then and then there's this episode which kind of rounds it off allows them to kind of discuss the whole marquee storyline and then does something pretty shocking at the end. We'll get back. Maybe. I certainly think a load of corpses lying around a corridor. That is actually quite shocking. But what's interesting is, obviously, this storyline was not set up to be a central part of DS9. The whole part of the marquee storyline was set up for Voyager initially. So it was the 3 shows, they said we're going to have a linked storyline in NextGen's last season in DS9's 2nd season and in Voyager's 1st season. We're going to have this, you know, they're all doing marquee storylines. And what happened was Voyager had this brilliant premise of the the 2 crews, the marquee crew, and the Starfleet crew, and there's ripe for tension. And I think they do about 2 episodes where they, you know, pug front a few punches and things like that. And Cesca's being a bit, well, Cesca's great. Let's be actually awesome. And then they just sort of ignore it, don't they? It's just like, oh, well, we're all one big happy family now. Well, in a sense, it was actually always kind of not going to work I think, on Voyager, because they're no longer in that context. And so in a sense, it doesn't matter. There's no real kind of thing to being a member of the Maquee anymore because they're 70,000 light years away from the Maquee. Yes, but it's kind of... It is kind of like those characters' identity and they do still call themselves like they call themselves Starfleet officers, but I don't think Alana Torres and Chakotay and all of that ever, kind of disassociate themselves like that. And imagine if they'd have had Voyager and a marquee ship going alongside each other. I imagine that storyline and that would have been so interesting. Well, I mean, just the fact that they put them in Starfleet uniforms by the end of, you know, was an episode one or like very quickly they're in the pyjamas and clearly that's an aesthetic, an aesthetic decision rather than an actual kind of plot thing. And so I think they are throwing it away sort of straight away. So, Star Trek, the Next Generation does this for both of the spinoffs, right? So series 5 sets up the Cardassians as a threat, like in, is the wounded series five? No, series four. Not even me three, I think. No, it's four. That's four, I think. And that's kind of the 1st Cardassian thing. But then they get beefed up in series 5 with things like, oh, and in series 6, I guess, in chain of commands. Yeah. Yeah. And the Bajorans get introduced with Rowe in... Five, yeah. Yeah. And then series 7 has those 2 pivotal stories, journeys end, and preemptive strike, which is the 2nd last episode just before all good things. Which you, so to me in a message earlier, is pretty kind of lazily directed by Patrick Stewart. And I think it is. I don't think he's a great director, but it is a nicely written story. We've had sting in the tail and which works because Patrick Stewart gets to be properly angry at the end, you know, that Rose betrayed him. I guess what's interesting about them a key, and it is a thing where even Star Trek, the Next Generation, which is fairly straightforwardly cheerleading for the Federation as an institution, the Makia introduced, and in the story where they're introduced, we get what, the DMZ between Cardassia and the Federation setup. And the Federation... She's like Jean-Luc. you will bring down these terrorists And the Federation's very clearly on the wrong side, and it's interesting that it's that it's a sort of colonialist thing, that Picard is given the task of dispossessing some Native Americans from their planet so that the Cardassians can have it because they've traded that planet away as part of the negotiations. And Picard is even invited to remember like an ancestor of his who was involved in dispossession. And if... all of that kind of nature. Yeah, you'd be awkward. Whenever they go into... Chakotay. Hello? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think it's super interesting that the federation, which is America, is kind of a settler society, like America, like Australia, you know, like a place where the land was forcibly taken from indigenous people so that it could be colonised. And so positioning the Federation as that, and therefore putting them in the wrong morally. What you have with a McKee is an organisation that good people that people of good conscience, that people we like are supporting. And so we start with Ensign Rowe. We have a regular on Deep Space 9 who is in a similar position where she was fighting against the Cardassians to retain her homeland. We have Thomas Riker, which again is like, this is a decision that Riker could have easily made. Cal Hudson in the Marquise Cisco's busy, mate. You know, because what it is. We're in that position then where they're moving. you know, there were Federation colonies behind that DMC that have now been given up. So it's Federation versus Federation. And that's not been done before really. That's a really interesting position No, and to have something standing outside the Federation, I think they throw it away a little bit here a little bit, but I'll get to why I think that's happening. But it is something that people, we respect can support, and it is something where the federation's in the wrong. And this is something that we've talked about. The difference between Berman Trek, once it kind of really hits its stride, and Kurtzman Trek, where Kurtzman Trek wants to present the Federation as an ideal to aspire to in a fairly uncomplicated way. And, you know, you can see why because of, you know, the rise of the alt rights and Trump and all of that sort of thing. Whereas 90s trek wants to critique America, like wants to use the federation to critique liberalism, I think. I don't think so much is 90s trek. Because I don't think Voyager or TNG really does a great deal at that. I think it's DS9. DS9 DS9 is the show that actively criticises the Federation a lot. And I love it. Yeah. It criticises it from the left as well. So the Federation is sort of liberalism, isn't it? In a way. and it does sort of stand up against tyranny and it's about equality and utopian socialism and stuff. But this is a critique that comes from the left. And I think that's super interesting. I think Kurtzmantrek is doing the right thing with the Federation now, given the current political context. But I think kind of poking that utopia and looking under the rock and seeing what's under there. It was so interesting at the time, you know. And so much worth doing. So much more involving than TNG and presenting it all as, you know we're wonderful and we have our ideals and we don't have money and you know, oh, so boring, again. DS9 takes all those cadets, puts them on a ship and then blows the shit out of them, you know. Is your ideals? Yeah. The Dominion knocked them out. I do want to say though, and I know I praise DS9 a lot. But I think this is, you know, another example of where it's getting it right. It took hold of this idea and it kind of shakes it until interesting things fall out, you know, whereas all the other shows didn't. No. And I think the serialised thing, which actually makes this show a little bit difficult to dip into. But given that it's a spinoff of a, you know, science fiction property that basically nerds are watching and people are invested in. We watch this the way that people watch a soap opera, I think. And so it allows itself to do this, and I think that that makes everything a little bit more layered and a little bit more interesting. It's not just space problem of the week. And this is one of a handful of episodes, I think, too, where there's a central relationship between a regular and a guest star. And I'm thinking things like duet and progress and maybe voyages counterpoint. Oh, that's fantastic. It's really good, isn't it? And this, I think, really works because we've been playing the long game with the Eddington character, we're invested in him and the actor and Avery Brooks are really good together, I think. Yeah, no, I agree. And I think the really interesting thing about Eddington. And obviously, we'll go into this in the 2nd when we jump into the episode is Ira Bear says in an interview, you know, this is the guy in overall creative control. He's not sure where he stands with Eddington. Like, and you know, when he talks to fans, some people love him. Some people hate him. Like, there's a real ambiguity about this character. No one can quite pin him down as to whether he worked, whether he didn't, whether he was good, whether he was bad. I think that means he kind of worked because I think that's what they're going for. Shades are gray. You know, and everyone, everyone is coming out in his character very, very different. And I've got a very, like, my unique take on him. which I'll go into as we watch it. But I rather like that, you know, that you can't, I don't like Dukat, where you can just go, well, he's evil, you know, or Garrett. Oh, he's good, really, you know, he's got a bit of a dodgy side to him. With Eddington. I don't really know whether he's a good guy or a bad guy really. I think he sees himself as a good guy, but he behaves like a bad guy. It's super interesting. Yeah. All right. you think we should go in? We better hats. Yes, we better have. All right. I'm going to count us in. Here goes. Five, four, three, two, one. And we're off. I am going to say this again, Nathan, you know, that every time we talk about DS9 year. We always got lots to say. Is it a show with some substance, you know? Uh, so here we start with the absolutely adorable but completely disposable B plot. I don't care if it's disposable. You know what? I remember reading a review at the time, right? where people were going, enough of Nog already because it was about 8 B plots. Do you know that he went off to Starfleet? Starfleeter Academy in series four. So when they got him back. They just wanted to do loads of him. So they did the Jake and Nog movie episode, Nog goes off to Npok Nog episode, in the cards, like there's loads of Noggle. Oh my god, he's so adorable. Yeah, yeah, he's really great. And I think this is really fun. And it is a very, very standard sitcom plot, I think. Oh, yeah. There's nothing deep going on here, is there? They try and very tenuously link it in with the main plot. Yeah, with a last line. Well, I think they're trying. I think they're trying. I don't know if it's success. But do you know why this is here? It's not about knock. This B plot was specifically added to remind people that Martok was part of this show. Because when he was brought back in in purgatory shadow and buying photos lie, that's the last time we saw him. And then they say he was established on the station. And then we've had about 5 or 6 episodes. And we haven't seen him. No, and they were like, right, we need to remind people of this character's here. So that's why this is here. Right. And this is the real Martok. Yes. Yeah. So the Martok that we meet in series 4 is a changeling, and this is the real one because he has one eye missing. Yeah, we've mentioned we've mentioned 2 big, well, three. Casta Yates, Michael Weddington, and Martog. This was absolutely a show that lent into the fact that it was serialised and they could do these good twists for these characters. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's the sort of TV we're getting now. That's the sort of thing that happened in Discovery series one in every single episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, this is, this is such like, he's virtually the wacky neighbour or something. You know, he's an Urkel. where he goes. He goes, no, you've got to stand up to him. And then the 2nd he comes in, he goes, right, that does it. And then sister goes, no, sit down. And shoves it back down in the chair again. Well, this is a really great TV moment because we only have this set, so the other 2 characters have to leave, whereas in real life they would go into another room and have this conversation. It's like no one says, we're in the middle of dinner. Can you go into another room and talk about this? It's that exposition dialogue we were talking about before. Now the Kardashians have their new Dominion allies. They've wiped out the market. Thank you very much for that. We have been paying attention, Paul. Thank you. You may as well just look straight out the camera. Yeah, I noticed that as well. Michael, we sent the missiles. Yeah, why didn't they pronounce it missiles? It's very, very upsetting. Do you know what's I found super interesting about the whole like fake missile thing is that Cisco is desperate to prevent a war which obviously we now know hits in just a few episodes time. Yeah, but this was a point where they're just still, they're still trying to push it back, you know. And I think the show is basically hinting that this is inevitable at this point, that this conflict is going to boil over. I think that's really kind of interesting, but I do like this. And so I have watched of, I have watched all of Deep Space 9, but some of it was a very long time ago. And so I do sometimes have the experience of wondering, I didn't, I didn't pick the twist when I was watching it this time. I didn't remember that the missiles spoiler alert are a faint. They're not real. And it does change the character of the episode. And if you think about it, right? What if the missiles were real, then what happens in the episode? They go to the planet and they disarm the missiles and then we all go home. If this was a voyage... If this was void, that would be the point. Yeah, no, that is the small dread noise. She literally goes into the missile and deactivate it. Exactly. Yep. So boring. It's as deep as that. Yeah. Oh, do you know, I have to say, I love the character of Martoc. And I'm not the biggest fan of the Klingons. at all with discovery. I find them a bit, you know, some of the episodes are very good like redemption and things like that, but some, like rightful air Sons of Mogue. I just find the culture a bit macho and a bit dull. Whereas Martoc, right? JG Herzler, choose the scenery with such gusto. Yeah, he's really good. Do you remember the whole sequence in strange bedfellows where he's like, I had this fabulous tag once, you know, and my wife didn't want him. So she left the door open and I, you know, and he's basically talking to Cisco about the fact that he's got married and he goes what is it? You may win the battle, but you'll never win the war. He's amazing. He's such a great character. There is a really, really annoying Klingon scene, which I will comment on when it arrives in this, yeah. Jesus Christ. Is it when they're in the bar? and they're just they're rowdy. Yes. So terrible. you get here, not going, does it? That's funny. No, that is that's a properly funny scene. And it is structured like a sitcom B plot, which I'm here for because the rest of it is a bit bleak. See, to me before, about how they led into the comedy of syrup noftum being a giant, and Aaron Eisenberg being tiny. But with J.J. Herzer, it's even funnier. when those 2 are standing next to each other. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, where they put the cameras easily. Especially where they're telling. Yeah, where, you know, he's trying to be authoritative. He's tiny. Oh, Aaron eyes, man. I tell you what, that character, what a journey he went on across this show. And I'll say it again. I think Nog had some of the best development of any character in Star Trek from beginning to end. And he's just really very good. Like he's fun to watch and giving him a fluffy plot like that is absolutely not a waste of our time. Like we were talking about things that were being introduced in TNG that then were picked up and improved and given some depth by DS9, The Ferengi, you know? Yeah, yeah. You wouldn't you wouldn't watch the last outpost and imagine you'd have a character like not going on that journey, would you? No, absolutely. Here we go. It's the obligatory O'Brien and Dax scene. They got to be in one scene to fulfil their contract. She'll be in the final scene, though. Oh, God. God, this light is so terrible. It's like a libistian mastodon. You can hear it in the forest, but you can't see it. It's so so bad. It's such just standard Star Trek dialogue. It is. But she is, but she is beautiful though. I don't care She is. She's fantastic Oh, look at, that's, I like the way that's back lit, you know, that prison. Yeah, yeah. That's a model that they've used any number of times before. I think in Star Trek, the next generation. Do you know the set is the Voyager Brick? you know that? Just lit and shot from a different angle. I have a problem with this. So, in, this is, he just sits here. That's like his in solitary confinement. He's in prison. Why why is he in solitary confinement? Well, because he's a dangerous terrorist criminal. Well, just like he's a political prisoner. I just think it's a problem. What should they be doing with him? Well, he could go to New Zealand and, you know, I don't know, hang out with the Hobbits or something, you know, like Tom Paris. Maybe Cisco's trying to punish him, you know, drive... But I think that this is something written by Americans and just Americans imagine putting people in prison and this is supposed to be a futuristic socialist utopia. And I don't know why you put a political prisoner in solitary confinement like that. I just think it's a problem. It just annoys me. He says later, doesn't he? He says later that if, because obviously he knows that this message means they've got to the safe house. that if, you know, if you hadn't forced me to come, I would have volunteered. I mean, we wouldn't have believed the plot at all if he'd done that. So it had to go this way, didn't it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I did believe the plot, to be honest. Yeah. So at the end of series 4 of Discovery, there's a character who has committed crimes and we hear what that character's fate is, and I was happy with that, I'm not going to spoil it for you. I don't really care that much. But it's a much more sort of sensible kind of punishment and we're kind of happy with it. But this sort of punitive American approach to... It's just leaning into a cliche, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like this sort of bitter, you know, I don't think they should go to New Zealand. beautiful landscape and no, suffer on your own. We're not even going to give you any books. Yeah, no, you see, I just think it's that's a bit crazy. But they do, he says, doesn't he? I lied here and I'm getting the reports of all the people that were dying and that's like, that's terrible, isn't he? Yeah. Yes, I do love that. Sorry, go on. I was going to say, I do love the fact that this is like the 1st time, I think, the Dominion came through the wormhole in purgatory shadow, which was a few episodes back. And suddenly, you know, we're learning that the marquee, that we're genuinely, you know, making an impact on the Cardassians and had them on the run, they're completely wiped out. So this makes the dominion. you know, a palpable threat in the Alpha Quadrant. And I really like that, you know, before we have the war with the Dominion. They're already making big ships in the Apple Quadrant. Yeah, yeah. And like in a way, the Makia, kind of a bit disposable, like we can do without them. And so when we want to emphasise the Dominion as a threat, we have them help, the Cardassians wipe them out. But then they make something of it. You've got Eddington sort of hanging around. He still survived. Uh, you know, the the last episode he was in. What are we going to do with him? And maybe the episode title is a giveaway. Blades of Glory. I wonder if he survives. I don't know what you mean about these literal episode titles. Wrong star for them, death or no. I wonder if Kira's mum really was fucking Dukat. So so he doesn't do the sort of Valjean Javert thing that he did in his last appearance. I love that so much. Do you remember? And he's like, I'll give you what you want. It's supposed to be metadramatic. Have you read that book? Yeah, yeah. You know, like the show, you know, these shows are in some senses melodrama as well. And so these sort of macho posturing that Eddington does, is being directed at a version of Cisco that Cisco kind of, you know, faked in the last episode that they were in together. And I don't think I'd realise that quite because I just thought why is he talking about Cisco like this? Cisco's nothing at all like this? You know, but it is a sort of fake version in his head. He genuinely did bomb one of those planets. He gave it enough time to get away, but he did vomit. you know, but he wasn't just painting himself as the villain. He actually was portraying that villain. So this scene, now we're in another scene in the infirmary contractual obligation, number two. Except that I think this scene is important as part of the lead up to the war. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. No, I would have loved to have seen more running through the promenade naked. Naked, yeah. Screaming, we're all... No, maybe not. Maybe not. Yeah. I don't know, though. I reckon he's probably, I reckon Mullen's fairly well endowed, you know? I think he's got a lot of BDE. Yeah. But yeah, basically, yeah, they're talking, she says, doesn't she? Oh, it's probably to tell us that the 1st wave of Gemadara coming. Actually, that's in 2 episodes time. In a way joking about it, you know? Yeah, yeah. But it's a joke. I think I mean, this is so funny. And Quark, when he's aggrieved, is hilarious and so they lean into that, don't they? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's always being hit, you know? Like, he's like... Where they go, mourn, of all people. Who would have thought he would have snapped and then calls line is, why are you looking at me? Then I might have idly suggested that we'll all be dead. Oh, a shimmer could sound. Oh, man, it's like the Robert Ricardo of this show. We can see how I line. No, but that hilarious line. So from Odo, so that's when he ran onto the promenade saying we're all doomed. And he's delivering it again, like the great sitcom veteran that he is. It's so good And this is, I mean, this is how you do a contractual obligation scene. isn't it? Yeah, yeah. But also it builds up the war. So the war doesn't just come out of nowhere in a few episodes time. One of the things I adore about season 5 is that they are always building up to that climax, like in every single episode. It's like it's like all the little bits of the puzzle come together in call to arms. Now, I was initially a bit shitted by that reveal as we go out to the ad break. So you've got Cisco contacting Kira saying what he's doing and then it turns around and then we've got Eddington in the background. And I thought that they were punting on actually writing and performing the scene where some kind of important persuasion happens. I just thought, oh, okay, so we're not going to see how he gets sort of press ganged in there. But given that this is a 2 hander that spends a lot of time with these 2 characters just talking. I think that, you know, they just wanted to cut to the chase. Now, this business here with the food is so shit. So, so he gets the food. Uh, um, Michael can't eat it properly because he's handcuffed and he complains that it's not real food. It's replicated. And, like, each of them have a bite and then they put the food away and go. Oh, you mean the actual business of eating the food? But I do like the fact that he's talking about the fact that he invited him to dinner. He's digging him all the time about how he ingratiated himself with him at the station. And you had no idea I was playing you the whole time. So here's my theory about Eddington, okay? This is what I think about him. I think he is a truly pathetic little man who just wants to be this mythic heroic figure, you know? I think he's uncharismatic. And I think Kenneth Marshall basically plays him that way. I don't think it's a terrible performance. I think he knows how to play it. And, you know, and he wants, he ingratiates himself onto the station, into a position where suddenly he's revealed to be this huge figure in the quadrant. Yeah, even though he's been on the station, like mending APS conduits and clearing people off the promenade for... Suddenly, he's like the arch rival of one of the most important people. you know, he's he's got him, he's important. He's being noticed and it all goes horribly wrong and the entire Marquis are massacred because he's so bloody. He's talking about growing tomatoes. Like, he must have grown them in like just the couple of months between, you know, for the uniform in this episode or whatever. Like, it doesn't work. It is what Deep Space 9 does, which is that every kind of big geopolitical entity is represented by one or at most 2 people in the semi-regular cars. Oh, no, no. interesting. Exactly right. And so it's kind of like, oh, the McKee we just talked about. You know, because we just get told they get massacred off screen and it, you know, doesn't have an impact. Well, it doesn't have an impact unless there's someone in the cast to feel it. Blake 7, you know, we don't want to see it. But, um, uh, so we promote Michael Edington. what are we going to do with him? Oh, he'll be our McKee guy. And like that's a reasonable thing for them to do. But I think what's happening here is that Eddington is doing to Cisco what Cisco did to Eddington in their last episode together. And so he's playing the nihilist. He's playing, you know, he doesn't really care. He's, you know, he's going to kill Cisco, all of that sort of stuff. And then the big twist is that he's saving people that this whole mission is about, saving, you know, his wife and some other people. And so I like that. Which allows him to be properly human and likeable as well. Yeah. But I still think he's a bit crap, you know? And I think that's deliberate, you know? Yeah. This is what happens when our old man. You know, thinks he's somebody important and wants to be somebody important. A lot of people end up dying. Yeah. Yeah. But I do want to say, I think that Avery Brooks and Kenneth Marshall have terrific chemistry. I think they attack this dialogue with real zeal because this could be very boring, but it's kind of pace dialogue, you know? Yeah, yeah. I mean, the whole thing is absolutely dependent on their performances and it is just put these 2 guys in a set and have them shout at one another for 20 minutes. And it's just marvellous. When people get under Cisco's skin. I think that's some of the best scenes, you know. And he's genuinely like he knows how to get under his skin, doesn't he? He's saying all the right things. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But this, you know, like, I'm happy to destroy all of the alpha quadrant, whatever it's revenge. I don't care. And all of it is just made up because we find out that the missiles aren't real. He says that, is that what you want? To be the man who brought about the worst war in federation history. And what I wanted him to say was, well, yeah, actually. Then they'll remember me. I'm not the little man anymore, you know. And then once... But actually, what he is? an ordinary bloke, isn't he? Yeah, but he's looking shifty here. Hmm, what could be going on? Oh, we go, back to the station. That means we're going to get some knock action. The B plot? Time for the B plot. We're going to Cork's bar now. But you know what? I love the fuck is this? Come on. They do it all the time. It's so stupid. The North comes from... The North can throw darts into each other's chest. I mean, they're pure they're pure comedy, aren't they? They're pure comedy. Well, yeah, yeah, which is why Discovery had to fix them. Do you know what I love about Quarks bar, right? As a setting is it's always got a bit of life about it. You know? Yeah, yeah, well they they have... Jesus Christ, now they're doing it in the background. They're like, dumb. Can't you cut away from us? We don't want to do this anymore. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like smashing latex. It's... Sarah Lofton is very handsome, I have to say, is matured into a very handsome man. Now that he's grown up. He's very, very good looking. He's very handsome there, you know. Mind you off, he's Avery Brooks, he's incredibly handsome. Oh my, no, Nogg's falling over. That camera angle there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But again, it's the absolute, it's the sitcom beats, you know, like he goes to stand up to Martoc as Cisco has advised him and then fucks it up spectacularly. Fabulous CGI flames in the Badlands. Yeah. But this is basically the 1st time they've been able to realise this with any kind of integrity before this. I mean, if you've seen before this is terrible. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think it looks okay. And I mean, that's the Badlands are important to the launching a Voyager, aren't they? That's where Voyager disappears from. But this scene changes the dynamic, doesn't it? Because this is Cisco now goading him to see if he genuinely has a death wish or not. And I like that. And it just goes over and makes the coffee. It goes, well, we can dive in, you know? That's great. Yeah, it's actually 2 hand as well. I have to say, like, there are a number of these in DS9's run, and you really do get to know these characters. You really do get to care about them. But you do say, you know, a lot of 90s trek is talk, but when the talk is as strong as this, I feel, I think that's a problem. Yeah, I think that we could have had a bit more action. And certainly when we get down to the planet and we have action, it is a bit shit. Although there are some really good moments. There are some pretty great moments which we'll point out. There's one fabulous bit where he's trying to figure out in the fog who to shoot from behind the barrel. I love that bit. Yeah, yeah, that is pretty funny. You're thinking he might just go for Cisco anyway, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And if he gets a funny line as well in response, we'll get there. I love the captain being just so insouciant, though. He's so great. He is so chill. in a minute, where after he's been bashed around in the Jeffrey's tube and he comes back in and Eddington has a line and he goes, hmm. Avery Brooke has never been camper and it's... Oh, dude. Sometimes, you know, when he's saying this Star Trek techno babble. I can see in his head, it's like, what's happened to my career? I think when they give him like good, juicy drama, he just, he really tears into it. But when they give him Star Trek dialogue, it's like, oh, God. Am I going to say this, Alan Moraine, really? Yes, poor old Eddington dissipating the warp signature. Oh, yeah, he goes, very fancy. Oh, dear. I was aware, you know, of the music in this episode. I was listening to music and yes, you're right. It was a bit more papery. Yeah, it was pretty boring. All right. Okay. And there, I mean, there is some sort of bullshit macho cliche dialogue, including the I'm going to kill you just before the ad break, where, you know, like, hmm. I find it weird is how they pace this because then they go into the break and then they just have a dialogue scene. Well, they're going straight into him trying to, you know, stop the Gemmedar from finding them. They just have a chat. I was like, huh? And then it's like, oh, talking of something you forgot, you thought we'd lost, you know, it's like, oh, you've just remembered that they're here, have you? Okay. Do you think this whole scene is just about, um, reminding us that reminding us that Eddington's Canadian? Yes. I don't know what the fuck is going on. Like this goes literally nowhere and just we can't go from the ad break. Like a loonie ever being mentioned before. Shut up. what's happening I really, really like the design of the Gemhadar ships. Yeah, they're cockroaches. They're the bugs, aren't they? Yeah. when they come on masse, that looks great. They're like the swarm, only not terrible. We haven't had the DS9 equivalent of the boat Mart, yeah, have we? No, well, they get that out of the way in series one, I think. Two, two, Series two. Oh really? We'll never do that again. Co-angerhead. So stupid. The Cardassians stopped wearing them and the Beaumont picked them up in a secondhand sale or at a charity shop or something. But this isn't just like, obviously, this might feel like it's just delaying us, getting to the planet, and, but actually, it is bringing the Jem'Hadar into the story at this point. Yeah, because that's important later on because we don't expect them to be there and to have massacred. everybody. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, this is all sort of fairly standard. You know, he has to repair something. They've got this fractious relationship. He has to kind of be vulnerable, you know, his life kind of depends on Eddington keeping the ship working properly and trusting Eddington with this plan. It's very stock Star Trek, all of this, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. I think I think it kind of is. It does allow Avery Brooks to get really angry and go, get us to that large site, which always gives me a lot of blood every time. Yeah, well absolutely. This, the business with these fucking wires. What's he got? They've been playing about with these lit up wires now. PNG season one. It's so dangerous. I've got to do the impulse flow regulator. He opens a panel and then just unplug some wise and plugs them into something else. Excuse me, they spot... I thought this was the most sophisticated technology you could get right? Just getting plugging it in. Do you know what? Do you know what's the most hilarious example of this? Do you remember one little ship where they were shrunk down to the size of an inch? Oh really? And O'Brien and Bashir have to beam into a thing and literally do this, but with massive ones, they have to pick up these massive wires and plug them in. At least them aware that the plugging wires into things is ridiculous. Oh, I do like this. Look at this. Yeah, yeah. That's pretty great. We could afford a 32nd... They do a wonderful in series 7 where they figured out how to do CGI inexpensively. They do a wonderful sequence where they set fire to a sun and a massive wave comes out and destroys a whole shipyard. Cool. very cool. Well, I thought that was pretty great. That was pretty great. Oh here we go. Oh, look, there was a tiny bit of handheld camera work there, did you notice? Only for a second. Ah, I love sister. Do you know what? The more we're revisiting DS9, the more I'm appreciating Avery Brooks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think he gets a bit of a bad rap. But I think it's unjustified a little bit. Yeah, no, I think it's unjustified. he's superb. Oh, this is great. This is hilarious because they absolutely are in Jake and Nog's spot on the promenade trying to bait him, aren't they? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, but also this sitcom dialogue about Jake bringing someone home and, you know, if I put the note on the door, that means I'm you know, boning someone so don't come in. It's hilariously cute. They are marvellous together, aren't they, Jake? Oh, they are. And it's a relationship that has so much depth because we've watched them grow up, you know? Yeah, yeah. When they were just both little kids, particularly strip loft and minuscule. With a girl on that double date and Nog says to his girl, oh, can you chew my food, please? I love that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they both end up in a holding cell. It's brilliant I used to love their hijinks in series one to three you know. I have to say that one of the things I don't like about this plot though, is like, it just makes Deep Chase 9 seem like, what, you can't even stand around talking. Like, you're like, what is it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't go. you can't make noise in a bar, you can't stand around talking and we've got, you know, the cop, nog enforcing these dumb rules. It's so shit. Look how this just, literally, the plot has ended here with him just going, you know, you're a very brave, a very stupid Ferengue. And then in the next 2nd he's like, ah,ha. courage comes in all sizes and that's it. That's the end of the problem. But I like it in a way, and it's a little bit like what happens in House of Quark in minuscule. He doesn't, he doesn't do the, you know, physically threatening, uh Martoc, because he can't. And so what he does is a comedy Ferengi line, which Martok appreciates. And so he deals with the situation in a way that's consistent with his character. And, you know, it's funny and silly and self-deprecating. It's good. It's great. It just shows you how disposable the whole plot was. Yeah, in 2 lines, it's over, you know? Yeah. And it follows the beats that you expect it to follow. But it, like, I think that it breaks this up in a way. I think the episode would be poorer without it because it's fun. Yeah, for sure. Oh, at least be too serious. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know, so when they beam down now to this planet, which apparently, you know, they pumped full of smoke and mist and the actors had a very unpleasant time because it was all getting in their eyes all the time. You keep referring to stock cave set number 59 or whatever. There's only one of those stock cave sets. It's always stock cave set number one. It's the same fucking cave. every single time. That's very true. Excuse me. It's a very low effort planet. So this is where you know that this is exactly the same set. Now, I know this because I've done a bit of research, but it's exactly the same set as Children of Time, which was the last episode where they went down to a planet and it was a colony on the planet of the Defiance cruise descendants. Yes. Fabulous episode. Fantastic. In fact, this episode is in the disadvantageous position of coming after that, which is so strong. But you know it's the same set redressed because they've got the same well that they had in the Children of Time episode. They also had a well in that one too. Ah, but I do like the Jemhadar backlit and it's all misty. They are a great silhouette. Yeah, they really do and they're really sort of... It's a bit of firefighting going. It's a bit more dynamic than what we had in descent. No, that is true. And don't you know what they're going? Rather than just a standard Federation line. Beam thing. I like the fact that he's got a machine gun, basically. It is a machine and the fact that it has an anti-coagulant in it. So if you get shot, you cannot staunch the bleeding. I like that Oh, okay, I didn't know that. That's pretty cool Yeah, yeah, because that's when... I'll be the one holding the pipe That's so funny. That is so funny. Too Gematar with a pipe. That's brilliant plan. Yeah, I think it's really good. I think it's properly good. And I think this is well shot as well because you can't quite see who is who. So we are kind kind of see. No, I don't, no. because because the Jemadar is so much bigger than Avery. Oh, he's a big man. because the silhouette is really obvious. No, but it needs to be. We need to be able to read what's happening. We're not sure which way Eddington's going to go anyway because of their relationships. Well, I think that we do. I mean, there's a, but there's a moment's thought where I'm like hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I don't think I don't think so. But there is that sort of comedy line at the end where Eddington just says I was going to shoot whoever was left standing because I knew that the gem Hadar would beat the shit out of you, which isn't quite what he says, but that's basically what he means. I know I know this is fairly, it's fairly drab in terms of colour right? But if they didn't pump in all the smoke and have it kind of all in shadow and things like this, it would be a really boring set. Whereas I think it's a bit more interesting for it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I agree. Down the whale with the Gemadar. There we go. This scene in a second. It does exemplify sort of how dark DS9 is willing to go at times where they find all the bodies of the marquee. And it's people that Eddington recognises as well. Yeah. Yeah. I was actually a bit surprised, like I was I was quite shocked by it. I don't think that's a bad thing always. I think sometimes you TV needs to hit you in the face, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I think I think it's pretty good. And what's interesting is, of course, the way they do it, where we find one person whom he recognises, and then we go a bit further and then there's an entire corridor of people. Doctor Who episode where there's a load of dummies. They've actually filled it full of people, you know. Well, or more convincing dummies, possibly. But I will say, like, even though even though it can kind of admire itself in cliche sometimes. DSI does, I think, have the ability to shock more than the other 90s shows. And it will push the horror a bit more, you know. Yeah, and it doesn't like it doesn't rub your nose in it. There's no sort of particular detail or anything like that. It's. But you know, it's the idea that these kind of idealists, they're all just like dead in a corridor, like they're not buried or anything, you know? They're not ejected into a pod into space or whatever they do in Star Trek. They're just like left out like litter. It's grizzly. And think about it too. Eddington will later say that he expected to find his wife among them. And we don't know this at the moment, but this is a rescue mission. So Eddington knew these people were here and he arrives and there's a whole heap of dead people and he doesn't know that. He doesn't know at this point whether all of the people that he came to rescue are dead and he's kind of surprised when he sees some of them alive. I did like that exchange there, where Edington is literally like, I failed them all. I think he knows he's a little man who tried to play big and got it a bit wrong. And then Cisco said that actually maybe we all failed them. Yes, we allowed this to happen. Yeah. And I think that it would have been interesting to follow that up because I do think the idea that the Makia are a valid moral choice, like belonging to the McKee is consistent. That shot. That's so great where he just machine guns all the invisible. And he goes, yeah, that's right. Thank goodness you remembered they can do that. I'm sorry, just reminds me of how fabulous the Jem'adar are, you know? They've got their invisibility. got their machine guns. Yeah, they've got a drug habit. Mitch with a drug habit. Yeah, yeah. And not like the bone bar, are they? And look, this is a lot of very grimy people from the McKee who desperately need a bar. Oh, she's very pretty. She's beautiful, isn't she? I love the fact that she's got the most sayable name in all of Star Trek because everyone just starts going, Rebecca. Rebecca. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, Rebecca, quick. And then when Eddington dies, he goes, honey. Rebecca. Such shit. But she is, she's good. She's properly good. I would absolutely go for a McKee led by Rebecca in upcoming episodes. Although there's a wonderful bit where we cut to the runabout and it pans across Cisco, to Rebecca, and she's given him the evil eye. You remember that? She has had a wash, I think, in between this scene and that one as well, but we'll just check on that when it happens. And this, I actually think Cisco comes off as a prick here. Well, Cisco comes off as a prick a lot. That's what I like. He's a bit flawed, Cisco. But the punching, the punching him in the face is, I guess he's doing it because he's so worried. Yeah, you know, like he keeps fooling him. Yeah, that smile. that is good news smack you in the face. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, naked he's so hot, honestly. He's really good. Whoa hoo. I'd let him hit me in the face. And so it's clearly about him being kind of terrified for the last day or 2 about the upcoming war. It's that thing that DS9 does a lot as well, where they really like fucking annoy each other. Yeah, and it's a bit like Odo and Quark, and it's a bit like, I don't know, Garak, and anyone who's in a scene with Garak, is they really irritate each other, but they kind of respect each other as well. you know? Well, I mean, because this is a rescue mission. This is exactly because they were never going to set off a giant missile thing to attack Cardassia, that it was just about rescuing a group of people. And so all of that macho act that Eddington was doing was all playing Cisco in exactly the same way as Cisco played him in the previous story. Which is kind of nice, isn't he? I think that's a nice reversal. And I realise the fact that they've gone from Cisco, like forcing him to help them to the 2 of them working together now. you know at the end of his life. they're working together and just for a very humane reason. Yeah, I think that's it. That's what's really properly Star Trek-y about that. It's not about defusing a bomb. It's about rescuing people. I have to say, though, that this Jesus Christ. Shooting behind the barrels. No, no, no, that's all fine. And then the kiss and then she goes and whatever. love all this. Make it as melodrama. It's like a war movie. It is really... but they've set up Eddington as this man who wants to be this incredible hero. And then it gets to be. Yeah. He gets the ending that he wanted. Jesus Christ, he's about to say, no, leave me. I'll only slow you down. He has been practising these cliches. his entire life. He's got them all on standpoint. I'd only slow you down. Get Rebecca to safety. yourself. And then he's what, does anyone know a good song? something catchy. Jesus Christ. Rebecca. Oh, he's not coming. Jesus Christ. I love it. But this is, come on, this is exactly how he wants to go in it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. In a blaze of glory. Yeah. And there's no way that these riders aren't aware that they're just trotting out these cliches at this point. It is absolutely just he gets the standard heroic death. There is something about these guns, you know, that make these sequences a bit more dino. the fact that every time the bolt hits it's like a big explosion. It's a practical explosion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, yeah, maybe. And they really, they probably shoot him about 5 times, don't they? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you've got to think there's all that anti-coagulant in there so you can have just bleeding to death now. Just bleeding. Yeah, straight away. Another corpse. Yep. But then to be honest, to the collection. I mean, he had to chip out of this. What else could they do with him after this? you know, I think I think I think they've used, you know, his worth now. Yeah, look, look. Rebecca's had a wash, Rebecca's and put some more makeup on. She's looking great. Bring in Ira Bear again at this point because he's always got interesting things to say and he basically insisted. that this plot was brought to an end. And do you know what he wanted to do? He wanted to murder all of them. He didn't want to edit them to somebody. He wanted them to come along and they would all be massacred and there was no way this plot could continue. But Rick Berman was like, no, there are marquee people. We need to just give a little bit of hope that there are pockets of resistance out there still. because if they come back to the alpha quadrant, which, you know, was never going to happen, but they can pick up that thread. And there's the there's the final scene of the B plot where it's just just like even just the slightest respect, you know, it is just cadet general and that's it and that's our victory at the end of that plot, which is great. And then this Jesus Christ. Now we have Dax explaining the significance of that incredibly cliche scene that we've all seen 1000000 times ago. This scene is here because it mirrors a scene at the end of for the uniform. And I think it's done a lot better for the uniform because she goes, you know, you didn't clear any of this for Starfleet, did you? And he's like, well, you know, and she goes, you liked a bit. So he goes, well, sometimes you just got to be a good villain and Dax goes, well, sometimes I like it when the bad guy wins. And it's a great ending to that episode. Whereas this is all a bit self-explanatory, you know. Yeah, I think so. But this, you know, I think this was forced upon them by Rick Berman, that they had to have this line about, Oh, maybe there's some of them out there somewhere, you know, biding their time. I don't think that's the wrong choice. I think having Eddington arrive and they're all dead would have just been so miserable and I just kind of think, let's, you know let's not do that. I think it's the right call. Once, I'll go with the Star Trek ideal and I will silence the cynic in me. No, and I think, you know, just because of the special position the marquis have that they're right in some ways and they stand as a critique of the federation. And so wiping them out is kind of invalidating their position. And it was, oh, you know, we'll wipe them a key out. They all fucking hippies or whatever and they're tomatoes and stuff. Like, I just, like, I think that's a bad call. But I do understand why they felt the need to, they've got a lot of running stories at this point. And that, you know, he's going, look, we cannot juggle everything. If we're going to, if we're going to do the Dominion war, we need to bring some, you know, we need to, yeah, get some of our cards in order. And also to create something that, To indicate that they're happy to shake up the kind of status quo in the alpha quadrant. And they've already done that in series 4 with the war with the Klingons. You know, we've got this war impending throughout series 5. And you have the Dominion come and immediately wipe out one of the major players in the quadrant. I think is the right move. It's like the comedy scene with Quark in this episode. It's all about making the war real. You know what's about to change, don't you? Is that as we go into series 6 and they bring in, you know, the new CGI company, we would actually see those kind of massive sweeping changes. We would see the battles and the, you know, the ships. It's all offscreen, which is all a bit strange and a bit cheap. Yeah, well, that's that's why. But it does cut to the emotional beats of it of seeing all the corpses and I think perhaps that's a bit more important than seeing a load of spaceships blowing up. I want to do say, I want to say about Blaze of Glory is that it is one of, I would say, I want to say it's one of the lesser episodes of season five, but it's not one of the strongest. For me, I think season 5 of DS9 is the strongest Star Trek season of all. And I think the hit rate in season 5 is extraordinarily good. It is on fire with its characterisations with its running plots and how it looks as well. There's a lot of really good productions in Sirius 5. The fact that this isn't one of the stronger episodes and yet it has some powerhouse acting, some really good dialogue, some great twists and turns. It's a reasonable action, and a funny B plot, and this isn't one of the better episodes of the season. I think that just goes to show how high the bar is at this point. All right, it's time for us to choose our next Star Trek episode. And so Joe is on Untitled Star Trek project.com slash randomiser as we speak. What series are we choosing from this week? It's the highlight of the week. Oh, actually, it's the highlight of the Fortnite because I only get to press it once every 2 weeks. Today, Nathan, I'm going to be selecting from the entire Star Trek franchise. Ooh. But as we have mentioned before, this does rather swing in the favour of 199... Yeah, that's right. All right, okay, I'm with you. How about you press the button? Here I go. Oh my god. Oh my god. It's sub-rosa. What is it? It is... Jesus Christ, it is... Okay, well, we're done. All right. We'll see you next week for some. Well, I think we have to do it. Oh, we have to do it. It could never come up again. What happens if it never comes up again? We have to do some roses. possibly say that and that's what it is. Of the entire franchise. I always guess that it's subrose. I could have snuck in and like tinkered with the JavaScript and made it be subrose. you do that? Is that possible? Yeah, of course I can. Yeah, I can do anything. But it is completely random. God, Planet of the Scottish people. Is it Irish? Scottish? No, Scottish, isn't it? It's Beverly Crusher. There's a ghost in this host. Yeah, we're going to do that shitty Scottish accent for the entire episode as well. It's a sequence where Beverly Crusher and Troy are in those incredible leotards talking about Beverly's erotic dreams. It's the most masculine feminine dialogue. in your life. Holy crap. It makes my boobs firm up just listening to it. The sequence where... Actually, you know what? By all accounts, the women, because this is a Brandon Bragger script, of course. The women on the production team were going after Brandon Bragger and saying, what an amazing script. You know, you've really, you've really got into the head of a woman there. As if all they want to do, you know, fuck a ghost. Yeah. amazing. And it does give us the one opportunity we're going to have in the run of TNG to see Gates McFame having an orgasm. Yep, onscreen orgasm for gates. Absolutely. And the car walks in. Yeah, that always happens. Your boss walks in just while you're out. It's embarrassing, isn't it? Yeah, terrible. Amazing. Well, I am. I am. If it's, do you watch Sub Rosa in the next week? Brilliant. Oh my god. You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley. You can find us online at untitledstar trekroject.com, where you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel. Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb. This episode was recorded on the 30th of March 2022 and released on the 8th of April. We'll see you next time for Star Trek, the Next Generation, Sub Rosa.