Cold Front
Star Trek: Enterprise
Series 1, Episode 11
Stardate: Unknown (2151)
First broadcast on Wednesday 28 November 2001
Episode 202: Cold Front
Recorded on Tuesday 29 September 2026 · Download Episode 202: Cold Front (71.9 MB)
Transcript
Hey, Joe. Hi.
So, we're back aboard the very, very first Enterprise.
It's Star Trek Enterprise season one, episode 11.
It 1st aired in November 2001 and is directed by the worst Robert himself, Robert Duncan McNeil.
It's called Cold Front, and its working title was Untitled Soulaban episode.
No.
Plus to know that we weren't with a similar sort of imagination sort of rise of this episode.
Exactly right.
Exactly right.
They should have gone with untitled sort of bad episodes.
About as much information as we get within the episode.
But I'd like to say, you know, season one, it's always a dangerous place to be in any Star Trek season, except maybe Discovery.
I'd like to say choppy Waters, but no, I'd probably say very still Waters indeed.
Yeah. really boring, isn't it?
I kind of was watching this and giving you my usual commentary as I was going through in a series of messages on the chat.
And when I got to the end, I was just like, I have seen that episode many, many times in other Star Trek shows, but with so much more dynamism than they managed here.
And I just don't understand how this production team that have been making Star Trek for how long now?
A decade?
Yeah, a lot of, how they seem to have unlearned lessons.
And things that were quite, you know, exciting in episodes like Voyages, Prey, and DS9's, the adversary, are somehow extremely boring here in Enterprise Series one.
What's happening?
I don't know.
I don't know.
I mean, it's the same thing that we said about Strange New World, which is the 1st enterprise episode that we ever did, where it's kind of gone back to basics and it's decided that Star Trek Nemesis was too cerebral and then have to do something. have to do something stupider for the slow withered members of the audience.
And that's who they're pitching it at.
And so this is a thing where a big event sort of happens, you know, we get guests on board the ship and in a sense that's reasonably agreeable, but just not particularly interesting.
And boring, Nathan. none of them have got a personality.
The only one who's got a personality in any of those scenes is Dr. Flux, who's having a great time with them.
He's terrific.
And that's a thing that's sort of slightly something.
Um, but then there's this sort of conflict where we get Daniels, who is like yeoman Daniels or something.
He serves Archery's breakfast or something.
And Silic, whose name we hear for the 1st time in this episode, but he was the Sullivan who fought with Archer in the pilot in Broken Bow.
And so this is the 1st time that that plot gets picked up in the actual show.
Oh, so we haven't touched the temporal Cold War between then and now.
Okay, so this kind of was a big deal.
Yes.
Why didn't they make it a big deal then?
I don't know.
I think they decided they weren't going to do big deals that they were just going to do very boring and straightforward episodes.
And so this ends up being an episode that doesn't have a really interesting hook that isn't really about anything, that in theory could be interesting.
It has a superb guest character who's labouring under a whole heap of Michael Westmore latex.
Did you mean guest actor or guest character?
Because he's not an interesting character.
I mean a guest actor.
It's John Fleck.
Silic.
We 1st saw him in Star Trek in the mind's eye, where he was a really brilliantly kind of villainous Romulan, who, you know, like he's got a whole leg.
Yeah, well, he is a Cardassian overseer in the homecoming.
Oh, the one who gets beaten up by Kira.
Yes, yes.
He is a weird looking alien in the search part one.
Oh, wasn't he in Alice?
And he is Abaddon, who sells...
The best thing about it, wasn't it?
Oh, hey, I've got some spare parts for you, Voyager.
Yeah, he was very tad, wasn't he?
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, and he does play.
I remember he's terrific in inter armour in DS9. as the Romula.
He's co-fal.
Yeah, yeah, that's a great turn.
And he's in a couple of episodes of The Orval as well. including in the most recent season as the Krill Ambassador.
He's a theatre gay.
He has had a massive career.
He's really, really good.
I think he's really great, but he is really wasted here.
He's in maybe 8 episodes of Enterprise.
So he's a sort of recurring villain.
But he's in a plot, this temporal Cold War plot, which the show keeps coming back to for various reasons, but which really, really doesn't do anything here.
They don't want to knuckle down and tell you what it's about.
I said to you in the chat.
I feel like this is like X-Files mythology where they want to sort of suggest something epic is going on and we're sort of heading in some crazy dramatic direction, but they don't actually want to give you any details whatsoever.
So in this episode, which is about, or the sort of peripherally about the temporal Cold War, we have no idea what the stakes of that war is.
We'd only really even know who's fighting that war.
So we have no interest in that.
And then you've got Daniels and Silly Silic.
What a stupid name.
It ends with a K. It's a space name.
Silic, who clearly have some kind of past.
And yet, there's no relationship between the 2 of them.
There's no there's no chemistry between the 2 of them.
So there's nothing to interest you there.
And so they're telling you all this stuff's really important whilst never displaying that anything is worth investing in.
Yeah, so at this point, I don't think they know what it is.
What's kind of going on.
And you can see that, you know, eventually it turns into stormfront, parts one and two.
It ends up being the sphere builders and the Zindi and all of that.
But there's no way they have that in mind at this point.
And they're clearly setting it up as a kind of interesting thing.
It occurred to me that each Star Trek series gets to create its own villains, doesn't it?
Like TOS has the Klingons and the Romulans, TNG introduces the Borg, it reintroduces the Romulans, discovery, brings the Klingons back, but then has all sorts of other things happening.
Dominion in DS9?
The Dominion in DS9, the Cardassians in DS9, the Kazon in Voyager, or the Vedians, or, you know, the, in fact, Voyager took a stab at quite a few.
What were the big warriors called?
The herogen.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And like that's an interesting thing that's absolutely a thing that you can do and that's what they're trying to do here because they've said it in the past and they do have Vulcans and Andorians and Klingons and stuff, but they want their own unique thing and because they're going back in time and this is a crucial part of history from our point of view since we've spent so many seasons in the 24th century.
So they have the temporal Cold War, and I don't know what they're trying to say because they're not super political, but it just ends up being boring and kind of nothing, I think.
All of those things you just mentioned, though, right?
Like the Borg, that was such an interesting concept when they came in, this sort of hive mind that will assimilate you into it.
Really scary, a great hook.
The Dominion, it comes in with a 3 tier hierarchy where there's power struggles where you've got different guest actors that keep coming back that all have relationships.
So it's packed full of salt.
What is here with the Sula bomb?
I mean, they can turn invisible or sort of chameleonic, plus they can travel in time.
But there's no personality.
There's no entertainment with them, you know, apart from those tricks.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Are they also doing things like they can go flat or they can sort of, you know, bend their arms or whatever.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They can do all that sort of special effect stuff.
Fango.
I thought you said John Flex a good actor.
If he can't lift this stuff, then the Ryan is the problem.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And so this is a sort of a bit of a boring nothing episode.
And then it commits all the sins that that enterprise commits like having Hoshi and Travis B completely sidelined.
They get more lines than they normally do.
There's banter, which doesn't come off.
Oh, I will talk about the banter as we go through this.
It's dismal.
It's pretty bad.
It is pretty bad.
I just think this is like Robert Duncan memorial.
He did direct a couple of really good Voyager episodes.
He directed Unity, which I think we've done, which was really nicely directed.
I mean, it was a good script.
You remember the one with all the Borg and Chakotay on the planet?
With some creepy moments, the bit where the Borg leaps up or, you know, on the sick baby and things like that.
So he can do it.
I just can't imagine a more half-assed execution of this episode.
I mean, 2 of the 3 ad breaks are people going, my God, let's go to his quarters, just walking out of room.
And I'm like, well, I can't wait to come back and see what's going to happen when we get back.
It's so plotting.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
It's really something.
I just can't wait to watch this thing you know.
No, I'm very excited.
I am very excited.
It took me a couple of goes to get more than 10 minutes in, I have to say, but I did.
I did watch it all today.
I did watch it all today.
Was it interruptions or just life is too sure.
It was just I found something else to do, you know.
Cut your toenails, things like that. go to bed.
Maybe I just go to bed and watch this tomorrow.
I'd rather be unconscious than watch this episode of Enterprise.
Pretty much.
Oh boy, oh boy.
I mean, you know, as ever, right?
I mean, please take the hugest compliment here, that whenever I watch these episodes of Star Trek, I just know the lie at the end of the tunnel is I get to laugh with you for 40 minutes about it.
And that will be fine.
If I wasn't doing this podcast, I wouldn't finish half these episodes, all right?
No, no.
To see what we do, friend listeners.
We can.
It's our craft.
So you don't have to.
Absolutely.
Unless you want to, in which case you're mad.
Well, on that note, I think we should go in.
Go away.
Go away.
All right.
I will count us in.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we are off.
Okay.
So Star Trek, the Next Generation had a rule that we don't have scenes that don't have our characters in them, that someone from our regulars has to be in it.
Right?
What, an actual?
Yeah, yeah, writing rule.
It was an actual writing rule.
And they do break it occasionally and obviously, you know, deep space 9 breaks it all the time and it is something that we don't tend to do sort of going forward.
But this is the reason why they have that.
Because this scene is fucking incomprehensible.
And if you are paying attention to broken bow and you might not have been.
That's absolutely.
I mean, who the hell even knows?
This is what, episode 13, 12?
11 so that was 10 weeks ago. to remember that with no previously on to remind us.
No, no.
And so we, you know, he's failed.
He's getting a big needle stuck in his eye.
There's a guy in a sort of space shower who we hear can't appear later on, you know, Daniels explains to us that he only manifests in the shower.
So that's where he's broadcasting from, I think.
Um, and he is called humanoid figure, I think, is his name.
Is that the sort of time lord in the shadows that we see?
Yeah, oh, okay.
It all talks like that.
Oh yes, go and do your mission.
And he's giving the Solaban genetic engineering technology, which is why it's a Cold War.
So they're fighting because they're just sort of squashy nobodies, but the shower guy is, is, you know, giving him genetic upgrades or something.
It's all a thing.
I realise on my listen through too.
I've got faith of the heart this time around.
There is a lyric in era.
I object to a lot, actually.
That is no one's going to bend or break me because that sounds really fun.
I don't understand why they're getting to that.
I always listen to the song.
It's the only titles I listen to every time.
No, I sing it.
Okay, so...
Hoshi and traffic's going to say.
It starts promisingly, doesn't it, with both of them?
And they're having a chat, but again, they...
I mean, what is that?
What is that?
That's not a real movie.
Why can't we do an actual reference to some real pop culture?
They should have said like the room, couldn't they?
That terrible Tommy Waso movie.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We watched the we watched the musical of Les Miserables.
And one of them isn't a fan of musicals and goes, 50,000 movies in the database.
That's what they chose.
I mean, can't you just go to your quarters and watch whatever movie you want?
You can, but this is the 1st mention of movie night, and it does become a thing, and you remember that great discovery episode, which ends with movie night in one of the shuttle bays as well.
So it is a thing that goes on, like that kind of thing. that become things.
But I don't remember these things at all.
So movie night does become a thing.
They do talk about it on the show, and it is not bad.
They don't have a holodeck, you know, it does what Voyages kind of, um, you know, saudrines or whatever does.
It gives them a culture.
Did you see that peculiar salt seller that you picked up?
It looks like an enormous needle with a ball on the bottom.
I actually thought that that was surprisingly middle class for Archer, who?
I mean, like archer.
Archer is very middle class, he plays water polo.
He's not, you know, for all his attempts at blokiness.
I could not believe how poor, God, I've forgotten his name.
Well, who plays Archer?
Scott Bacula was asked to play this scene where he's sort of going...
Oh, and where are you going?
And can we come with you?
And I'm like, who did his diplomacy classes at the Federation Academy?
It's really bad. isn't it?
Everyone's sort of behaving like children that have never been to our permission before.
It's actually a shame because this is the sort of thing that that, you know, I kind of say that Voyager never gets the chance to do very much.
Remember the Ronald D. Moore episode where everyone's on board and they're bringing things and we're having a cultural thing.
And I just thought, that's awesome.
Why aren't we doing that?
And this is this.
This is why we here.
This is what Star Trek's about.
And I really liked it as an idea, but the execution, he just looks like an idiot.
Like, he just looks like a, you know, and he's not being an asshole, which is his usual, which is quite nice.
Yeah, it makes it...
I don't think this is a better alternative because I was just watching this scene going, you're really bad at your job.
Like, I'm not a captain in Starfleet and I think I could conduct this introduction a lot better than you are.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, no, it is very strange.
We did see Daniel's 1st scene, and he is called Matt Winston, and did you know?
I found this out.
This is on the memory alpha page, he is the son of Stan Winston, who is the visual effects guy who did all of these things like Terminator and aliens and like all of those visual effects.
He was a massive, fabulous robots crushing the skulls.
He's really, really amazing.
Like, a huge...
Could they have pulled him on Enterprise then?
They need your help.
So here's the other thing here.
Why are these all men?
Why are these all men?
So they're called gentlemen?
They're called men in dialogue.
These are all men who are coming, at least they're not all white.
I mean, there's 2 black guys as well.
How can you tell they're all covered in sort of orange latex?
I know, but they, you know, they're white guys covered in orange latex, but there are a couple of black guys there, but everyone's a man.
And in fact, the only women in the cast are in the regular cast, you know, at Toshi who gets a scene and poor old Jolene.
It is that thing that you said about stripping back all the progressiveness, isn't it?
Yeah, it's really there in series one.
Yeah, I think they get better at it.
They bring women in, you know, like, yeah, things to improve, but this is definitely a Star Trek being aimed at a particular demographic.
Yeah, yeah.
People that like boring telly.
That's right.
That's exactly it.
I mean this guy's sort of trying his best.
This is, um, pra Mantu.
John F's name.
You can't miss him.
I mean, they all have unfortunate latex heads, don't they?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Bones sticking out and bumps everywhere.
Embarrassing, really.
It makes me feel nostalgic for the outrageous O'Connor where Westmore had the week off.
But why can't we like, this was Kurtzman Trek, right?
These aliens would be really fun and they would have fun rituals and we'd be doing comedy.
Do you know what I mean?
Everyone would have personality.
I couldn't tell you who one of these characters are.
You know, I actually, I mean, I kind of like this as an idea, like, and they are doing religion, but it is, it's very strange the way they do it.
And I think it's interesting.
So you've got Dr. Flux who knows about Hinduism, but then he says he's been and seen mass celebrated at St.
Peter's Square.
And you kind of think, are we still doing that in the 22nd century?
I'm sure Rottenbury would approve.
No, you see, I don't think he would.
We have a mention of Devali, don't we?
In Data's Day, in Star Trek, the Next Generation, our 1st sort of mention of a non-Christian religion in Star Trek, like a human religion.
Um, And so there is stuff about religion here.
And, you know, like Archer makes the dumbest, he's just saying it now.
He's asked what religion he is.
Does he have a religion and he can't say because this is American network television.
No, I don't when he clearly doesn't.
And so he says, oh, I just try and keep no mind.
I mean, that's as ambiguous as what he was asked to recommend great literature.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm sure you're shelf over there.
That's right.
He just has no personality at all, does he?
Apart from being an asshole.
Yeah.
So this scene here, we have Malcolm Hoshi and Travis on board the bridge, and we're talking about our special guests.
Malcolm's going to go, apparently there are only 3 people on the bridge for some reason.
I don't quite know why that is, but Malcolm's going to go off and mend something, and he's called both of them ensigns, just to make it clear that there's a mediocre white man in charge in this scene.
So he's...
Trust nothing, is it?
He goes and then he's back within 30 seconds just to tell him to get out the chair.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so Hoshi says, why don't you go in the chair?
And he sort of smiles, but he's playing it like a child.
I did like that to him going, no, I'm fine here.
I'm fine here.
It's when he fits in the chair and goes, whoa, can I fire the phases or something like that?
Oh, come on.
God, you're not in the chair.
Jesus.
You'd be perfect for series 3 actually. when we go around terrorising everybody.
But it is that thing where Reid comes back and puts him in his place.
You know, just makes it very clear who or what sort of person is in charge on this ship.
They see the optics of how this looks.
Even then.
Why?
I don't know.
I just don't know.
It looks really bad, doesn't it?
What does he say?
He comes in and says, permission to take my station.
My station.
My...
Yeah, yeah.
Get back in your subordinates.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And now look at him look at the way he's playing it as well.
Like, and he's really abashed and sort of embarrassed and stuff.
It's yucky saying.
Like, it's not funny.
It's sort of unpleasant.
Going back to what you were saying about um, the religious aspect, you know, going to see this nebula of what it all means and all of that.
Yeah, fine.
I object to the fact that it's really very tediously portrayed, right?
There's nothing really interesting going on there.
But like, that's not tied into the main plot at all.
No.
It's just a complete side note.
It's so weird.
Like, and nowadays, you would have thematic cohesion in an episode.
Now it's just like killing time. exactly right This is just using up running time.
It's just background against, you know, for this thing to happen against.
So this is going on.
You know, they let people on board.
That's potentially interesting.
I mean, is it is it just, what was it the other day?
There was an episode of Star Trek, the Next Generation within a really, really boring B plot with a garbage scale that they had to eat into the sun?
Right, yes.
I can't even remember.
And I can't remember what the A-plot was.
But like we were complaining about it.
And I was saying, oh, you know, there's something about seeing people do their jobs on a starship that's interesting in itself.
But that had the excuse of being reasonably early on in sort of 90s treks existence.
This is now season, you know, I don't know.
Well, 22.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
This is season 22.
That's not enough.
You know, that's not enough anymore.
Did you see that dismal CGI ham then, the wedding?
John Flex.
Cartoony.
John Flex cartoon hand. in.
Yeah.
So just all of their instincts, I think, in series one, were it kind of was doomed failure, I think.
Yeah. to strip back the Star Trek from Star Trek. to strip back the progressiveness of Star Trek.
It's just so bizarre.
Some things that they do, like, the fact that they go back and go, Andorians, um, you know, Tellerites and Vulcans, and that they take that episode of original Trek, and that they make those important in a way that they then become important to, um, to Kurtzman Trek. you know, that picture of how the federation is created and stuff.
Like, I think that's interesting.
They go back and they, they look at bits of Star Trek law that had been neglected by, by 90s strike up till that and that gives it a distinctive feel.
Like going back to sort of, you know, things that they haven't done since the original series.
Like they, they, they do make some interesting decisions, I think.
But it's the execution. especially in series one.
Like you go and watch some latter-day voyages and DS9s.
And all right, yeah, some of it plots, but some of it's really exciting.
Sacrifice of angels, go and watch that.
I mean, we objected to a lot in fury, but there's a action set pieces happening.
Bulkheads flying everywhere, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
Why is this so plotting?
It's really boring, isn't it?
I mean, you've got poor old trip running around trying to make it interesting.
Like, what were they doing?
They were showing him the MRI thing.
Like it's just super boring, isn't it?
Oh, now we're about to have the incredible twist that Daniels, the fella, you know, the slave that brought the breakfast at the start of the episode. we just met.
Oh, I wondered if he'd been in it before.
No.
Oh, God.
Even Michael Jonas was in a few episodes.
Tesco was in a few episodes. that's exactly right They are really are unlearning lessons.
How that is delivered, that twist.
It's extraordinarily mundane.
Like, it's not it's not even like, oh, my God, a member of our crew.
You know, he doesn't know who he appears to be.
Do you remember when Eddington was revealed, you know?
and that amazing standoff with Cisco.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's it's so boring.
It's so low key.
I can't get over it.
So, so what's happened is that John Fleck, that Silic, has stuck his cartoon hand into the warp core and cut a thing, which actually saved the ship and prevented the ship from exploding.
And we don't know why.
Is it because the enterprise is vital in the temporal war in the future or somebody on board?
Because we have literally no idea.
We have no idea why anyone does the thing that they do.
We have no reason to believe Daniels and not Silic.
There's no stakes.
They all explain things to us, but we've got no way of knowing how to feel about it.
Excurities.
It is like an X-Files mythology episode, isn't it?
Except it doesn't have the budget, the style, or the wit of the X-Files.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Where the X-Files would have had a hook would have had something interesting or some interesting image.
You know, what has this got?
And we are just in the standing sets this week, aren't we?
In, forgive me, some very cramped standing sets later on in the episodes.
We'll get there.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, so somebody got in here and disconnected it from the primary feed.
That's this week's guest star.
Yeah.
So I suppose the one thing, the one thing that connects the 2 plots is that John Fleck was hiding amongst them.
It's providing a little crowd to sort of, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's right.
That's how he gets on board.
Yeah.
But that's it.
That's it.
That's it.
At the end, I thought, my God.
Like someone, this religious crowd, they're going to find a way to solve this thing or something like that.
Yeah, they're just standing there.
No, looking at the...
It never comes together.
I got a lovely nebula.
But it's like they've just completely forgotten how to make television sort of in any way.
Like, it's it's insane.
Like why do the plots not have anything to do with one another?
You know that green man, that sort of fellow who's on the screen there?
God, man, I just want to pick at those bits on his face to see if the flaps come off.
Yeah, it's not good, is it?
I mean, it's okay.
I don't know.
It's another lizard man.
Who was that?
Fabulous woman going down the corridor then.
Did you say she was on a mission?
I don't know what she was up to. has a great wig.
And so now we have, um, uh, uh, Daniel's revealing who he is.
I think it also is an issue that the actor playing Daniel.
Do you have a name?
Yeah, so Matt Winston.
Matt Winston is underplaying everything so much.
Yeah, yeah.
It's like going, well, you know, I'm in a temporal code war.
This is what's happening.
And you know, I think there might be a Sulaban on the ship somewhere. you know, do you want to go find him?
We could.
Yeah, it's all right.
So, I mean, we saw a season 3 episode with him in a, do you remember?
And I just remember that there's like a thing where he brings Archer into the 31st century or the 29th century or something like that, brings him forward in time and shows him what happens if the sphere builders aren't stopped or if the Zindi aren't stopped or whatever.
Was there a war out the window?
that what we saw?
Yeah, yeah.
There was a giant window and we saw like modern spaceships all attacking one another and stuff.
And it was something.
Do you know what I mean?
And he was explaining what the stakes were, and it was something that was clearly very obvious.
Okay?
The sphere builders were going to take over, not just the Delphic expanse, but all of the galaxy or whatever on WaiPad, all the rest of life.
Here, who knows?
Do you know what I mean?
Like who knows what's at stake or what's going on?
I just don't know how we've gone from guest, like regular guest actors like Mark Alamo and Jeffrey Coombs to this guy.
I mean, he's given nothing in this scene.
But I mean, he's okay in other scenes.
Like he, you know, he's he's a thing.
I cannot remember.
I mean, yeah, I remember that scene because there was a big battle.
I don't remember that scene because Daniels is doing something particularly staggering in it.
I mean, the start of this scene when he came in and he's going, oh God, my roommate is so messy.
Let me tidy up.
I like, why are you tidying up?
You're about to tell him all about the temporal fucking cold war.
Now this gets on.
I think this gets some points.
I mean, it's very lawnmower, man, but I points for it.
It is very, it is very lawnmower, man.
But I'm also thinking of those diagrams that Kurtwood Smith looks at in the year of hell.
Do you remember that?
Is it the year of hell?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, those time diagrams with all of those different, you know, timelines and things and that's what we're seeing here.
This is us convincing.
This is how we know that he really is from the 31st century or whatever, because he has this special effect.
And this special effect looks great and it looks like the sort of thing that we haven't been able to do or haven't chosen to do in Star Trek before.
I mean, it's the sort of thing we see, you know, ad nauseam these days.
This is the console these days.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. as well.
I think this is a great visual metaphor for the temporal Cold War.
A load of obscure swirly lines and things just flying about, the kind of mean, absolutely nothing.
Yeah, yeah.
At least it's visually interesting.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, I'm always complaining about 90s trek being boring looking.
Do you know what I mean?
That's a pretty great looking scene.
I mean I appreciate that they've got the effects in front of them and behind them.
So they're trying to give it depth as well.
Yeah.
But it doesn't mean anything.
No.
But it is pretty and that's something.
That is a legitimate goal for the show to happen.
That is the lowest based TV you should go for, though.
At least it's pretty.
Yeah, yeah. at least it's visual. at least they've remembered that we don't want to watch people in Navy cover all standing in front of dark gray walls for 45 minutes or maybe we do.
I hate to tell you this, but that was your 32nd treat, visually, for this episode.
You're now stuck in the gray sets for the rest of it.
We spent all the money on those 30 seconds.
There is one other good special effect.
Or one...
Are you talking about the nebula?
You know, the nebula is super boring we've seen.
Do you know what?
It is like Strange New Worlds because, you know, like how you say, we're going down on a planet.
Why God, you know, that's not...
We've done that.
Yes, but it ain't the 1st time we've done that as viewers.
Get on with it.
Well, in this, it's like, oh, my God, a nebula and everyone's all looking in absolute.
Yes, voyager past a nebula every week. get it.
Did they expect the sort of standard Star Trek viewers to just not watch this?
I don't know.
I think that they were very definitely trying to get new people in by doing something new.
Um but what the new thing that they do is make it boringer than it was before.
I mean, there are ways of reintroducing old ideas, but doing them in a really fascinating way.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, you know, like the thing is that the episodes that people remember are not this, you know, they're not this, they're the weird high concept ones.
We get a mention of unexpected where Tripp talks about being in a holodeck, uh, um, in unexpected.
Do you remember where he said he thought he was on a boat in the sea?
And so, you know, there is this sort of thing.
This show, that's the one thing that we get earlier on is that they've been travelling now for 5 months.
They've been travelling, you know, away from Earth.
This is all one continuity.
We can remember things that happen to us in previous episodes, which is kind of cool, I think.
Um, Uh, I don't know.
I don't know.
But that's a more memorable episode than this, because it's high concept.
Like Cosmetrek came in, right?
And I had the job of reintroducing to a whole new generation because Star Trek had been off for some time.
Yeah, all the core concepts of Star Trek and it did it with massive visual interest with, I mean, quiet, controversial storytelling choices and all of that.
He didn't just present the same things we've seen before again, but more boring.
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Dumber so that they wouldn't put people off.
I 1st Star Trek's very complicated.
They watch Strange New Worlds.
Actually, it's quite stupid, you know?
I think I could watch this with my dinner, you know.
Good God.
What's happening now?
I've totally lost Yeah, I've kind of lost track as well, but we know about Daniel's Hoshi's getting a line, which is kind of nice, and I think we saw a glimpse of Travis. although I don't think he gets another line.
Oh, doesn't Cholo?
I look just pissed off throughout this whole episode.
Well, throughout this whole season.
Don't forget, this is still when she's adding you fucking idiot to the end of every line that shouted.
There's no point where the camera's on her in this episode that I don't think she's thinking, what a load of cumps.
She's got like the resting bit.
Look at her, they look.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
She's like, do you know how boring this is?
All of this.
Wake me up when we get to series 4.
So this is the other thing too.
We discover in this episode that the Vulcans don't believe in time travel.
Is that right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Does that contradict previously established continuity?
No, because it's 2151 or whatever.
So they don't at this time believe in time travel, but later on they will discover it's real, like all of the rest of us.
But here, the Falcon Science director, doesn't believe in time travel, and so she doesn't believe that Daniel's sister in the future.
Was they not looking about when the ball could travel back in time to sort of 1st contact and go, oh my god, look at that technology that none of us recognise from the future?
Yeah, they didn't notice that.
Enormous bubble in the sky. you see it?
No, they didn't say it.
They were looking out another window.
Oh, boy, 0 boy.
Okay, what's happening, Nathan?
I'm lost.
Oh, no.
So now Archer's looking for John Flack and he's talking to Flocks and that's really it.
That's it.
Oh, so like, now, this was the bits where I was thinking of the adversary.
You remember when they were looking for the changeling and everyone's sweating and they're all down the tubes and the music's gearing up because Jay's in the hot seat and they're all pointing guns at each other because it could be anyone.
What the hell is this?
Yeah, I don't even know.
See in that crowd over there?
Oh, I don't know.
Camera lingers on crowd for a second. stand around.
Oh, how many were left on the other place?
Oh, 6 of them.
Oh, it could be part of that crowd.
Oh my God.
Oh my goodness.
So, and now and now we have Daniel's taking control and all of the backstory that we didn't hear him give in previous episodes that he wasn't in.
We getting that now.
Like we've had all of these dull episodes between then and now.
I mean, he could have just had a scene in each one, couldn't he, to prepare for this?
Yeah, but again, I think that they don't want to do that.
I think that they very definitely want to pair this back and not have those running things because they know about them.
They've done them in the last... series 3, didn't they?
When they when fully off-based.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, no, because because clearly this wasn't working.
So they just went in the extreme other direction.
And that didn't quite work either, but it was better.
And then in four, I think that's when they kind of got the balance right.
And brought in Manicoto, who's got an idea, you know.
Yeah, exactly right.
Burman and Braga do not have an idea at this stage.
No, no, no.
And fair enough, right?
They have dumb 11 odd seasons or whatever.
11?
Sorry, that's too low.
They've done a lot of seasons of this.
And they've gone through every kind of arc based and idea of the week that you can.
I just don't understand why a new team didn't come in and yeah, I think that's the problem.
They're just exhausted, you know, and they have what they think is an idea, but it ends up being not a very interesting idea.
Yeah, and we know there was a lot of studio interference.
You know, they wanted that 1st series to be all on earth.
I know that would have been kind of shit, but it's not what we got, right?
So they're not able to present what they wanted to.
Oh, God, this bit was a dog.
The only way he knows that Sulaaban is in his quarters. because the dog is woofing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, so I got a bit distracted watching this because all of my dogs lost their shit at the side of another dog on the television, particularly.
Particularly.
Coco really likes cheese.
I just didn't think that was the sort of staple of a dog's diet.
No, Calvin sometimes feeds Cocoa cheese and Cocoa, like I think, will come running if he thinks he can smell cheese.
I mean, even that, the way he emerged from the wall.
It was so boring.
Yeah.
And so he calls him John.
I don't know if he does that in Broken Bow.
No one calls him John.
Like, everyone calls it Jonas.
I was so distracted by it.
I was like, is that supposed to be a threat, the way they're, you know, jammed?
You know, but he just goes, you know what, John?
Like, what do we do?
Well, it's like I was watching the fucking wounds or something.
Good night, John.
So weird.
And because we know Flick can be camp because he was fabulously camping as Aberdom in Alice.
I mean, he was wearing furs and everything.
He was so funny.
I don't know why we've forgotten this.
The cab villains are really fun to watch.
He can't ham this up, can he?
He can't ham it up.
I think he's really menacing in the mind's eye.
Like I think he's really properly menacing in that.
He's really good.
No, but you know, look, look at these lines.
I was sent to prevent it.
You know, you can really have fun with these lines if he wanted to.
You know, imagine Jeffrey Coombs saying these lines.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He should really have been.
But again, I just don't think they want that.
And it's a...
We've strip back the women.
We're straight back the games.
It needs to be less gay.
We've taken out the intelligence.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It needs to be something that everyone can enjoy and buy everyone.
We mostly mean dumb people.
No, for me.
Yes.
I mean, I don't even think dumb people would be challenged by this, you know.
No, no, no, I guess not.
Oh, well, there you go.
There was a little shot of the...
Nebula out the window there?
Yeah, that's kind of cool.
That looks okay.
Like, what's happening here?
There's no tension. don't know.
No. and there's no relationship.
So why do we care?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then she mentions Daniels and he doesn't properly react.
Do you know what I mean?
Is that her accidentally giving away that there's someone on board who knows what's going on, who's advising them?
I mean, that was the worst fall by a dog ball I've ever seen.
It's excellent.
That's...
And then that's all gone so...
That's licking his face.
That's how that's how tedious this is.
Can someone send in the dog because that stunt was terrible.
That's it.
So they had to tie a pork chop around his neck so that the dog would play with him.
I can't help but notice that the um, the people of colour in this scene are all wearing different clothes, so we're doing sort of um, sort of fashion segregation here, but also, they don't have a mind.
They don't have a fucking line, any of them.
No, there's just one guy.
There may be 2 guys who have, but this guy, this talking guy who's called Prom and Toose, which for God's sake.
There's an Asian guy, though, as well, isn't there, in the makeup I just saw. okay We'll give them that.
Yeah, I just was like, I don't understand.
What has this got to do with the exciting Sullaban Hunt watching this Nebra.
Yeah, they're all standing looking out the window and saying space language to each other.
Oh, God.
They were going, do you know what?
We'll do that again in a night and sick, baby, but we'll have archer do it.
All right?
Do you remember the end of that?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Wasn't he having to hit himself or something?
I can't remember.
He had to do the apology dance, didn't he, or something?
I can't...
I mean, watching him humiliate himself was great film.
It was pretty good.
Yeah, yeah.
It's a great episode.
The special effect isn't there yet, of him sort of emerging from things.
Because I swear when I watched, what's the one where they run through the walls on TNG?
Uh, the next thing?
Yeah, that's great.
And this really sort of tightly directed.
So they go, boom, boom, boom, boom, through each word, you know?
We're talking over Daniel's exploding.
He'll be back.
Don't worry.
It's a temple, Cold War.
It's in the title.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I foresee your time.
I'm going to go, Cassandra now.
I foresee a time.
At the end of a season where Archer and Daniels will be standing on a blasted landscape that means absolutely nothing.
At the end of season one.
Excellent.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't think that ever does end up being anything does it?
Do you remember?
It was like a nuclear holocaust on a planet, but I don't know why.
I got no idea what that is. don't think I've ever seen that finale.
Is it a two-parter?
I can't even remember.
It is a problem, you know, that I don't really retain a lot of enterprise.
Well, I still haven't watched it all.
It's the one that I haven't watched all of.
I haven't watched all of TOS either, to be honest.
You hate me.
But come on, don't write it.
The TOSs that we've watched.
That being great. except for the terrible ones.
Even though Scotty is a murderer.
We remember that one.
That's right.
Oh my god.
The foggy streets.
Don't you remember?
Oh my god, that was so bad.
Oh, that dreadful episode where Uhura had to relearn her language.
Oh, embarrassing.
So dreadful.
I will never forget Spock's brain.
Whereas I can't imagine.
What's this called again?
I can't even remember the time.
Cold front.
It's a park.
It's a pun.
Because Cold Front is a weather thing, but it's also a front in the Cold War.
Thank you for explaining that. me.
Yeah, it's pretty good.
It's a pun.
Oh, I've seen that.
We'll always have Tom Paris.
I know, that's one of the best ones ever.
Do you think we could find him using the sensors?
Oh, is this the end of where they all just go out of a room?
It's so funny.
Wait for it.
Wait for it.
Go to engineering.
Two, three, four.
Oh, no, no.
They're going out, they're going out.
There is 2 though.
There is 2 into the ads.
They just leave a room.
I still think last time in outrageous O'Connor, which I'm remembering now with considerable fondness.
There is an ad break, which has them saying, well, fortunately, they don't have lasers, so they can't do us any harm.
And then that was it.
Actually, okay.
I'm glad you brought up the outrageous O'Connor.
Because like, that's a good comparison.
The guest actors in that, right?
absolutely shocking.
The kid that's trying to sort of grapple his dad on the viewscreen.
But we'll never forget them. will we?
Do you think you'll remember this religious bunch from this episode never again?
Well, because we had the other religious bunch.
Remember the other religious bunch?
took over the ship?
They were terrorists, weren't they?
Was someone a chair?
I can't remember that.
I think it's called...
I can't remember.
It's something about...
This whole episode is us just going.
I can't remember.
Something realm, favoured realm, fantastic realm, something.
The thing you guys need to know is Nathan has the brain size of a planet.
He has much memory space.
However, it doesn't have enough to keep Enterprise in there. no No.
All right.
Now, oh, look, here's John Fleck cartooning himself into the bulkhead there.
Tell Malcolm to meet me with his security team.
Yeah, okay.
This is really... something to give you a leg out.
Oh, I think we're heading towards the big fight though.
Oh, you think?
In this very, very confined space.
Well, it seems to be, isn't it?
Yeah.
I think this is a slightly longer episode than we normally get too, which is a shame.
They are.
It's really boring.
Oh, yeah, look. 37 minutes, so we've still got 7 minutes to go.
Yeah, yeah.
Just going forever.
Are you telling me they've got to wrap up all of this in 7 minutes?
Can they?
There's so much happening I don't know.
Come on, go through the bulkhead.
Go on I mean, at least if you're going to do this right, this is sort of the mid-season arc reminder.
Give us a crumb of something to go on with, right?
Or a promise of something.
Have a threat.
You know, like have something exciting happen.
So this is the thing where the stunt coordinator in the memory alpha article, the 1st thing that gets mentioned is background is the stunt coordinator complaining at how tiny this set is to fit, you know, these 2 guys and a cameraman, and to try and have some action happening in this dreadful set, which does seem to be made up out of milk.
Milk crazy.
It is, isn't it?
Yeah, milk crates.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Wowsers.
I mean, maybe we've spent all the money now.
We're sort of stuck. on John Flex's contact lenses.
I just watched this fire.
Bless him.
He grabs his leg.
He falls over.
Shake the camera.
Oh my goodness.
He drops on top of him.
And then he's gone.
That was it.
I know, there he is.
Oh, he must have gone invisible for a second.
They're grappling around now, throwing each other against the walls.
Are they going to kiss?
I don't know.
I think I just saw John Flex penis, though, imprint on that costume.
Yeah.
Just for a 2nd.
Just for us.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There we go.
Oh, look, here's Travis.
He's so pretty, isn't he?
He is pretty.
He's wasted here in this show.
I would have made him the star of this, you know.
I know she.
I mean, do you remember Evil Hoshi from the alternative universe?
I know, I know.
I would have had her gone bad in series one and been the villain of the show.
That would have been awesome.
All right.
Oh, what's happening now?
Are we going to shoot silly, are we?
You're going to kill me after I saved your life.
Captain Archer?
did he save his life?
don't know.
We don't know.
No.
At least you could say, you know, this ship will be vital in the climax of the temporal war and that...
Pin it down to anything.
Robert Duncan McNeil was trying to do some handheld camera work now.
Yeah, but it's glacial.
Bless him.
Yeah, but again, you know, when you're hunting someone through the corridors.
Now, I'm not a TV director, right?
I'm just an asshole who teaches Latin.
But if you're, if you're trying to, to give, like don't make the person small in the frame.
Do you know what I mean?
If you're supposed to be thinking about how they're feeling.
Why are they like not filling the frame?
Okay.
So this, this thing also makes no sense.
And I was reading commenters on German's reviews earlier who praised this sequence because the air all comes out and then it stops coming out and now there's nowhere.
But we're all okay.
Oh, it's leaving for some reason.
Oh, right now.
No, he's leap wee.
No, no, no, but now there's air.
Look.
No, no, there's no air.
There's no air.
It's all been blown out.
It's blown out, not sucked out, you remember?
Data says that.
Um, uh, and now it's filling up with air again.
Uh, and uh, I don't know what special Scott's doing.
Bless them.
Mr. Silic flying through the nebula.
That's like, you've got to pay that.
That is at least an attempt to do something that we haven't seen before.
It doesn't work.
It's shitty, but it's like I give them points for that, I think.
All right, it's something.
I'll give them that Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Also, and now we have a couple of minutes on that panel.
What the fuck was that all about then?
Oh, I don't know.
Who knows?
You know?
I reckon maybe at some point in the next 10 episodes, this maybe will be relevant at some point though.
Yeah, probably.
It will come up again, I think, almost certainly at some point.
Not a clue.
Oh yeah, no, as usual, because he can't be too smart.
We don't want someone like Picard who knows things.
We want someone who doesn't have a clue about things.
George W.
Bush is, after all, president of the United States at this point.
Oh, this.
Oh, is that right?
Wow.
Sounds about right.
That line did actually make me laugh is when he went, I don't know how to write this report.
I don't even know where to start.
And to Paul went, I'll help you, if you like.
I bet you will.
He's a fucking idiot who doesn't know anything.
That's right.
I mean, I think it's supposed to be comedy.
But they don't play it that way.
No, she is the one competent person on board the ship.
Oh, Travis can do things and Hoshi is a skilled linguist.
And Dr. Flux, of course.
And Dr. Fox is great at holding swingers parties.
She has the most incredible lips.
Did you see her lips then?
Yeah.
I know what you're thinking.
There's a lot of collagen, isn't there?
It's a bit of a thing.
Indeed, indeed.
But, you know, there was a consequence of this.
Archer has got a big bruise on his head.
Yes, there you go.
So we all learned something about something today.
This ending made me die, the where they've locked the door to Daniel's quarters, you know, they come up with terrible secret scenario that we don't know about.
And then the sort of scary piano started coming in.
And then we get the door, we go in on the door.
What's behind the door?
Who can say?
Do we ever go in there again?
Like, that's, yeah, like, how have they not created, like, he's dead.
Like, I don't know.
Like, why are we not intrigued by all of this?
That's your bread crumb, Nathan.
It is there might, possibly, in the future, be something behind that boring gray door that is relevant to nothing we've learnt about in this episode.
No, we haven't learned anything.
We haven't.
Well, I mean, you know what?
I'm so pleased we did that episode, though, because we have now notched another tick off series one Enterprise.
So we're down to how many now?
I'm not sure how many there are in a season at this point.
But let's say there's 24, which is a guess.
Still 20 to go. have got 20 to go.
God, you're here with me. by God.
So boring, isn't it?
Oh my goodness.
Possibly the least tangible arc episode we have ever comfort.
Yeah, it's really not very good.
And they do like, let's be fair, they get better at this and they get better at next year.
As soon as next year, I think season 2 is probably better than season one and then season 3 is much more interesting than either of those.
They even get better at the action next year because um, even though it is another Borg episode.
But I just remember, there are like POV shots where the cameras swooping down corridors and things and it's like it's like someone has said to them, well, you just inject something into this, please.
Yeah.
So I think it lifts every year. certainly in terms of production because some of the ones we've done for season four.
The productions were great.
That 2 part Mirror Universe episode.
I mean, the Folian Web, you know, the fabulously comical gone.
You know, there was lots of crazy, great imagery going on.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, that was super exciting and super, you know, trying to be visually interesting as well. and trying to be very Star Treky too.
This is even more than TNG embarrassed about being Star Trek.
It took Star Trek off the title card and it's trying to be something else, but it's still too Star Trek, and it's all of the worst, least interesting things about Star Trek altogether.
Plus some racism of a kind that we haven't had since the 60s, well, apart from occasionally in the 90s, I guess, as well.
But, you know, it's all just all a little bit unedifying, really.
It's all the beats of Star Trek that we've watched ad nauseam for the past couple of decades, you know, from the 60s through to the 90s, presented to us for the very 1st time via this crew in a watered down and very stupid version.
Yeah, yeah.
All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to work out where we're going next.
It was an enterprise episode this time, which means that it's your turn to have a go at the randomiser.
What series are you choosing?
Take a guess. 90s track.
Everything.
Almost bang on, actually.
I have kept absolutely...
I mean, I always keep us in no extract, don't I?
Generally speaking.
So 90s track, but not enterprise.
Exactly.
That predictable.
God damn it.
Yes, it's the next generation.
Dick Space Island Voyager.
My happy place.
Excellent.
My happy place.
Me too.
No?
Okay.
See what the hell we get.
Oh, not this, though.
Your random Star Trek Voyager episode is season three, episode 12, macrocosm.
Oh.
You know, that's the one where those CGI bugs that Port Kate Mulcher is pretending to grapple with that do come back in the lower decks episode 2 Vix.
Is that right?
Yeah.
There's macroviruses in there?
They forget nothing. they?
I swear there's a scourer who goes through the episodes going, oh, this is terrible.
Can we do Netflix?
I'm going to press it again.
Oh, we've done it.
We've done it recently.
Final mission.
Season four, episode 9 of the next generation.
Oh, fuck.
No we can't do this.
I said the other time, we can't keep doing the bangers of these face line.
We've got to do some of the shit.
It's one of my all-time favourites as well.
Season five, episode 22, children of time.
God, I love that episode, but we could do it.
We have watched some dance.
I mean, my finger's on the button.
I haven't pressed it.
It's up to you.
No, it's up to you.
I'm happy to press it again But if you fans, because it is great.
But it's not, it's not typical.
Do you know what I mean?
It's not the art thing.
It is a high concept one that it does very well, right?
It could be TNG, right?
We are... or Enterprise.
Remember that enterprise episode where they meet the other enterprise and it's all their descendants or whatever.
So it is a thing that they have done.
It is a Star Trek thing more than a Deep Space 9 thing.
So it's not like we're kind of eating up the great arc episodes here if we do it.
We still quite a lot.
We haven't touched that 6 episode arc in series 6 shit.
Oh, no, we did rocks and shoals.
We just done one, but we still got tons to go.
I am tempted.
And we do go outside.
Yeah, okay.
You know, we plant some fields at one and it's just, do you know what, do you know what it is about this episode?
It's just how intensely character focussed it is and how clever it is with taking the characters and then suggesting what they would become all those years later.
It's just so smart.
What do you think?
Yeah, let's do it.
Okay.
All right, fine.
Although I want to see what I would have got.
Oh okay.
Oh, that's quite good as well.
We could have done series 5, episode 2 of Voyager Drone, which is a good 7 of 9 episode.
Do you know, I really didn't like it the last time I saw it.
Oh why?
I can't remember.
Is it because the drone walks a bit like Crichton from Redwall?
Yeah, I think that might have been it.
Is it a it's a guy?
Is it the Nazi guy for Mum Stormprond or whatever?
Or no, from the Hirogan episode?
Is it that kind?
Yeah, it is someone who's done other ones.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
No, I thought it was a bit dumb.
Well, I mean, I'm going to have a good think as well, whilst we're away for a week and think about what our descendants, you and I would be like, if we crash land on the planet.
Okay?
Yeah, yep, yep.
They would be super irritating.
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley, where online and untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 29th of September 2026 and released on the 2nd of October.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Deep Space 9, Children of Time.
That was the first time in ages, Nathan.
There was so little happening there that I said in the middle of the episode, where are we?
I'm lost.
I think we did that a bunch of times.
Like, I think we did a bunch of times. so boring.
Three stars.
He gave the puppet 11 star and he gave that 3 stars.
He, like, it...
Do you think he was being kind to the new show and unkind to the show that's been going a while?
That's the only reason I can think of.
People liked, like, people liked this because it came back, it came back to the premise of the pilot.
And because Something's happening, do you know what I mean?
Like mostly nothing very much was happening.
But it wasn't like, it just wasn't competent drama in any way.
Like you said, there's no thematic unity to it.
It's not about anything.
Um, there's no way of adjudicating the rival claims of Silic and Daniels, so we don't know who to side with and who to root for.
Um, no one in the in the episode is particularly engaged with what's going on.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, no one reflects about it.
No one goes, 0 my god, there's this time thing, you know, what's that mean?
They don't want to overplay their hand?
Because they don't know what they're doing.
They don't know what part of a picture they're revealing. mapped out all of this, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Or something.
You know, like have some episodes going and then work out where you're doing so.
It's just like, oh, let's reveal that one of the crew members is one of them, and then there's, our silic will have silic.
He going to be our kind of semi-regular villain, which is, you know, you can get John Fleck in to be a semi-regular villain. not a bad instinct.
Not at all.
But, but, you know, like it just...
Yeah, yeah, make it evil Romulan from the mind.
But also, like, do you remember what Ira Bear said about Odo, right?
He said, I always knew.
I always knew the 2nd I took over DS9 in the last episode, Odo was going back to his people?
I had no idea how we were getting there.
He said, but I knew that's where he was going to end up.
And that you should kind of have to have an endgame to look towards it.
You can't just get, and that's what was wrong with that X-Files mythology, is they kept building elements on top of elements on top.
And then it just fell over.
Well, but they also wound it up and then found themselves still going.
Do you know what I mean?
And then they had to do the super soldiers and all of that sort of thing.
I mean, they did actually wind all that stuff up.
Like, I, you know, I, like, I would, I don't want, I don't want it to be Babylon five.
Like, I don't want like a 5 season arc plotted in advance because that's not how good television gets made.
And like Deep Space 9 is successful at suggesting things and building on things and trying something and abandoning it if it doesn't work, but then keeping going with it.
Like you talked in this episode about, about the Dominion, how they introduce a Dominion and it's got 3 tiers.
That's not how it's introduced at all.
Those 3 tiers develop organically and that's what they end up going with.
And then they bring in great actors and they go, my God, we want more tombs, we want more, lame o.
Let's have these characters together.
Let's build relationships, then let's surprise with those relationships.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
Maybe if maybe if I'd seen all of Enterprise in order and I had a better idea of how the Cold War arc.
The temporal Cold War kind of plays out.
But I don't think I do, and I don't think they do either, do they?
Like they really don't know what they're doing.
It certainly wasn't memorable enough to lodge in my brain.
I mean, and you, like the Zindi thing, like the, you know, the Zindi, um, Like they rope that into the cold war, that becomes a temporal Cold War thing.
Or, you know, remember?
But does it does it feel like a integrated part that's always been there or just an awkward fusion of the 2 things?
But it actually doesn't...
I think that that probably lifts the temporal Cold War because it makes it a thing about a thing.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, it's like, they have, they're trying to stop earth from destroying their world in the future, which they've learned about from the shower guy or something.
Daniels.
Daniel Chhateau Guy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I think I think that that was back in the day, there was this thing called television without pity that used to do recaps, and I was just not going to watch it, surprise.
I didn't even know how I would do that at the time.
Um, you know, like it was on telly or something, I wasn't going to buy the VHS tapes, like I did for Voyager.
And so I was watching the recaps on television without pity, and I'm pretty sure they called that guy shower guy.
I mean you know who he is, right?
He's fucking head in from Arc of Infinity with his black pencil.
It's that.
Oh, that would be really creepy and mysterious, won't it?
So I'm going to find out who that guy is.
I'm looking for mum.
I don't know.
Put shower guy in it.
See what comes up.
Yeah, see what comes up.
We'll have an investigation. old front cold front.
Yes.
People can learn.
People can learn things.
I've got to do the... is called humanoid figure.
Humanoid figure.
Is that his name?
Shower guys, yeah.
Humanoid figure.
A mysterious individual.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
He gave them biometic garments and cloaking devices.
Oh, Captain Archer meets him.
In?
In the expanse, like early season three.
Oh, you've seen that recently.
Is it the 1st episode?
After I suffered a devastating attack, blah, blah, blah, which resulted in the death of 7000000 people from Florida, he ordered Silik to retrieve Captain Archer and deliver him to a temporal chamber.
That's his shower.
Then he provided Archer with intelligence that the Zindi were behind the attack.
Do you remember any of this?
Because I know you haven't watched this within the last couple of years.
I watched it.
Silly gets killed.
In in something.
We never find out.
He's called Future guy.
Humanoid figure, a.k.a. future guy.
I just did another clue where this was going, though.
They invented the character without deciding, oh, he plays.
He's in another, he's been in 4 Star Trek.
All right, all right.
I love this stuff.
So this is James Horan plays Shower Guy, and he was in he played, who did he play?
Wait a sec.
I pressed the wrong button.
Okay, he played Joe Brill in suspicions.
Okay.
So I think he's the murderer in in suspicion.
Oh, he was very boring.
Do you remember what she does?
She does her Angela Lansbury moment, doesn't it?
It was huge.
You was dead.
We have actually seen him in 2 episodes already.
Oh, come on.
He is Barnaby. the grumpy arsehole in descent part two, the grumpy Starfleet Guy on the Bridge of the Enterprise, who's crossed at Beverly for some reason.
Oh, he's quite tedious as well.
Yeah, yeah.
He plays insect skull head creature.
Is that his name?
No, he's called Towson, like Towson Cole in Fair Trade in a Voyager episode.
And we have seen him.
He's Ikatikar, which can only be a Jem'Hadar name, in in purgatory shadow and by Inferno's light.
Ah, probably his best role then.
If, um, if brief.
You know, I was just thinking there whilst you was doing your investigations.
That's, um, just like Neelix in that episode there. was fabulous.
Instigations.
Watch out.
Michael Jonas is behind you with a phaser.
And I was thinking like, you know, they've unlearned that as well, because do you remember when at the end of redemption, there's the mysterious Romulan shape in the shadows, we will, you know, we will find out and we will stop Jean-Luc Picard one day and we're like, who the fuck's that?
And, you know, in a truly dreadful soap operatic twist.
It's Tasha Yars, bastard child.
Oh yeah, awesome stuff.
A half Romulan child.
Like, they could have done something like that, you know?
But in fact, isn't she, like, it's not played by Denise, but it is voiced by Denise, that John Fleck in the mind's eye, isn't he talking to a mysterious Romulan figure, who, I don't know who it is.
How wonderful.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
She gets introduced because the mind's eye is just like very, very close to the, you know, the season finale, I think.
It's quite at the end of the. you're just like, yo, do you remember that when we when we had drama and actual suspense and mystery in the show?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Why did we do that again?
Oh, no.
No, let's try not having those things and see if that makes for a good Star Trek show.
And also as well.
The music, even though it has been toned down a lot, is still a bit too exciting for the average viewer.
So can we make it more vanilla than ever?
I mean, did you hear any music in this episode?
Oh, so I think I've said this before, but I had a game for the Wii U, which I played for maybe half an hour in total, which was Star Trek, and you had a ship and you went round from place to place.
And I think all of the music was like procedurally generated music.
But it just sounded like that.
It just sounded like every sting musical sting leading for an ad break, leading to an ad break, you know, his track. was the entire soundtrack of the thing.
And that's all I can think about today.
The music was really bad.
It was super boring.
I mean, we've managed to provide at least 10 minutes of extra material about the episode there.
Who knew there was so much?
That's it.
Because he was certainly running out of things to say while we were watching it.
Just in somewhere in the episode where I'm going, what the fuck's happening now?