Star Trek V: The Final Frontier

Hey, Joe. Hi. Hey, Todd. Hello. So we are here for our Christmas special, and we're here with friend of the podcast, longtime listener and fellow podcaster on Flight Through Entirety, Todd Bealby. How are you? I'm well, thank you for having me. I feel really honoured. Thank you for joining us. I've been looking forward to it for months and months now. Before you even go any further, can I ask Todd a question quickly before we stop about this terrible movie? Todd, what's your Star Trek experience? I have no idea. Like, you know, what's your favourites? What do you really hate? And you know, when did you come in? I came in to Star Trek the Next Generation. Remember me. Was the really the 1st one that got me hooked? So I know series 4 to 6 really well of Next Generation, but then when Deep Space 9 came along, I moved on to that, because this is the 1st one I came in with from the beginning, and I adore Deep Space 9, my favourite by far. Man of taste. I then went on to Voyager and was continually disappointed and I gave up the Hirogen Arc. When they resolved their big, they were on the holodeck and the Voyager crew were losing and then between our brakes, they resolved it and Janeway said, oh, we've come to a truce and I went are you kidding me? And so I think I soldiered onto the end of the season, then I didn't watch anything else up to the end of that show. I watched a few episodes of Enterprise. Enterprise. But I'd moved on by that time onto things like Buffy and Angel. Yeah, you still would have ditched it, Todd. even if you hadn't have moved on. You'd just watch those episodes and go, yeah, life is too short for this. I've never seen the original series properly. I've seen a couple of episodes. I've obviously seen most of the movies. And this one, the Final Frontier, was the 1st one that I saw at the cinema. I only saw search for Spock like 10 years ago and I hadn't even got through the motionless picture. I fallen asleep 4 times now. So I know I know the original crew from like the movies and that. So and culture. Of all the recent treks, I started with, obviously, with Discovery and I watched the 1st 3 and a bit seasons of that, and then I sort of just drifted away. So I haven't finished that. I've seen all of lower decks because that is fabulous. Of course you are. And just references everything that I really do know. And I really like Strange New Worlds, but I'm far behind. And I've seen the 1st season of Prodigy. Yeah, yeah. What about Picard? Oh, and I've seen all of the card, obviously. And, you know, the 3rd season of that I adore because it's like back to the TNG crew who were my 1st crew. And although they're not the crew that I love the most, they're still up there. You know, I just can't walk away from them and that. No, and they had that sort of big cultural space, I think, at the time. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Plus, you know, it's got other people in there that I really like like Jerry Ryan, who's by far in the doctor and Kate Mould grew the best things on Voyager, you know, so and Raffi and that hot guy, what's his Rios, right? So I like all of that in Picard. Who's the other girl that's in it? Oh, Alison Peele. Who I absolutely detest and everything she's ever done. So, I really struggle with her because, you know, you know how there's some actors that you just don't, Joel with? So when she was in, I was thinking, oh, but she's okay, but I don't love or like other people. I mean, she turned into the manifestation of all leisure. So that's all. So that's my Star Trek experience for you, Job. A rich pedigree. I've got to say, okay, you've done a lot of it. I absolutely adore listening to you guys with Deep Space 9 because it's my 1st love. I love listening to you with TNG because I know it pretty well and I adore you doing Voyager because you rip it to shreds when it needs to be ripped to shreds and you praise it when it needs to be praised. I mean, Nathan, I'm getting the impression here, you know, Todd's more of a me than a you. Yeah, I think he likes all the things that you like. Yeah, yeah. Todd, um, how do you feel like co-hosting uh, untitled style? No, no, no. Yeah, that's a redraw, the Albemart. I enjoy the fires. So we are doing our traditional Christmas film. This is the 4th time we've done a Star Trek film. and we are doing Star Trek 5, the final frontier. It was released on the 9th of June 1989 in the US. And that places it directly between up the long ladder and manhunt. Oh my goodness. Two seminal classics of TNG. We've done both of them on untitled Star Trek Project, and we did up the long ladder quite recently and kind of had fun, I think. Is that in terms of broadcast? Yeah, in terms of broadcast. So there's a freeway. Yeah. Because this was made, right, at the same time as TNG. They were making in the same studios, this movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, clearly the Enterprise D's corridors and staff are serving as the Enterprise A's corridors and there's some very long boring story on memory alpha about where the bridge of the Enterprise A comes from, but I can't remember it. And, and, you know, some of the Klingon staff, I think, sort of cross pollinates. Yes, this isn't anyone's favourite Star Trek movie, probably. But I have to say that I watched it this afternoon. I did not off a couple of times and I did have to rewind, but I don't think it's the war crime that it's been made out to be sort of generally by fandom. It's kind of bad, but it's not an atrocity. I remember this being really, really bad. And I watched this in 3 sittings over the last 2 days and I had a fucking blast with it. I mean, it is diabolical in many, many ways, certainly in terms of where all those 1000000s of pounds went on the screen. But God is fun and all the humour with the original crew is there and it's fucking crazy, right? It's so like TOS this. What if we go and find God in the middle of the universe? That has been cut from the same cloth as what if Abraham Lincoln came floating through space on a chair on the viewscreen, right? Yeah, yeah. The big green hand that grabs the Enterprise. What about that? You know, like it's that sort of thing. So it is very TOS and, you know, and fair enough. What I thought about it, though, was it just he's a little bit light on incident, but it was also a love letter to those 3 main characters who are so important, and I thought that was really nice. I did appreciate that Look, it's better than Nemesis. Yes. Anything's better than Nemesis. I would just be angry if we were watching that. But, I mean, I remember watching it originally at the cinema thinking, oh, this is what Star Trek's like, you know? We're going to find some entity. in space. And I didn't really think much of it at that time. Like, I just thought it was okay. And I think this is just a, well, I think it's okay. It's a series of incidents, set pieces that, you know, kind of want to take off, but often don't. And it's, you know, obviously Will Shatner's vanity project saying to Leonard Nemo, anything you can do. I can do better. I can do anything better than you. No, you can't. End of. Does Neemoy come back to do six? No, he's three, four. I think it's a plus mile. Yeah, he did two. didn't he? Two and six. Yeah. No wonder they're so great. Well, and that is an absolute return to form, I think, you know that's a really, really great film. And that I remember going to, because it's not a summer film. I mean, remember, this is a summer blockbuster in the United States. It's released in the middle of the year where summer happens in some parts of the world. And it's up against, um, is it Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade possibly. Definitely the Batman film, you know, the big 1st Tim Burton Batman film, which was a huge. Which one's not going to succeed? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And because this isn't that great. And probably looks a bit tired as well. I don't know. You've come off that incredible trilogy, that amazing trilogy. We did Star Trek 4 already, you know, like a couple of Christmases ago, and it's brilliant. It's a great film. But it connects with the general public. Whereas, you know, even as somebody's watched Star Trek and I'm watching this going, what? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So if I'm doing that, imagine what the general public's doing. Thing is, I just think, like, when it came out, it needed to land as a movie with the general public and it failed miserably. Yeah. And I was reading that there were some places where they didn't even send this abroad because it had done so badly in the US. I mean, it came to the UK and it only made like a 1000000 over here, so it didn't do spectacularly well over here. But now, all of these years later, yeah, this to me, it just feels like a dose of TOS being injected into my veins. Like you said there, Nathan, the focus on the 3 main characters that's TOS through and through, you know, ignoring all the all the rest of the regulars. Yep, they did that week in, week out, the batshit premise, the humour, all of it. So now I think this lands, I don't think it matters now. Is it enjoyable scene to scene? Yeah, I really enjoyed it, scene to scene, I think. Row, row, row your boat, Ahura, dancing naked on the sand dunes. I know this ship like the back of my hand, you know, what does guard need with a spaceship? I mean, I just had great fun with this. It is terrible. Like I haven't lost all my critical faculties, but I did have fun with it. It's that hang time thing, and the thing that it reminded me most of is a vastly better film, which is Star Trek beyond, where we get to spend some time with each character for a bit, and there's a lot of just kind of going from place to place, and there's a lot of time for just character interaction. And it's a film that has much more incident. It's visually stunning. Everyone's not in their 50s. Like it's a bit more lively and exciting. But what it does do, which neither of the other two, you know, more modern Star Trek films have done is just give us enough time with all of the regular characters, I think. Oh, I don't remember a single thing about Star Trek Beyond. I couldn't tell you one scene that is in that movie, whereas there are moments in this that are burn into my consciousness. If you just said Star Trek 5, I would think of Spock in those sort of levitation boots halfway up that mountain. And not because I've seen the film more than once, because I don't think I had. I think I had seen it once before this, maybe twice, you know, at the outside, but those things excerpted. Remember when the DVDs of Star Trek, the Next Generation came out and they had that big trailer and one of the hero moments in the trailer, which was covering all of Star Trek, the movies, the original, is Scotty hitting his head on the bulkhead, which I've now seen, 100s and 100s of times, you know, every time we put TNG on. You know, so if there's one thing for this movie, it's that moment you know? Try and fuel. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So like it's it's a film that's more important to me than Star Trek Beyond, which I think I've probably only seen twice, but I'm looking forward to doing Star Trek Beyond when it comes along. It's actually pretty good I forgot about all those more recent movies. We could have got one of them and I would have gone, what are these things? You might have got section 31, you know, that's in there as well. I'm the only person who likes section 31 and I will die to defend it. I still figure 2 our run would have been great fun, you know. I mean we did recently. We recently discovered, you know, that hegemony, which was a two part Strange New Worlds episode, rift a lot on the best of both worlds. And then by pure chance, we got the best of both worlds, like a month later to watch. And we decided that Hege enemy in so many ways was a superior bit of television, but no one's going to remember it at all. Whereas the best of both worlds, which is a vastly inferior stagey bit of television. nobody can forget. And I think that's the case with 5 and beyond, you know. I think you might be right. It's a moment in time Well, it might be our moment in time as well. Who knows what younger audiences are experiencing. I made me start singing Martin McCutcheon, all right? Jesus. All right. Well, I think we should go in because this is a very long film and nothing very much happens and we're going to have long stretches of just staring at each other over the Zoom call if we say everything that needs to be said now. pair of you. That will not be an issue, you know. Todd, before we go in. Can I ask you, how's your singing voice? Terrible. Oh, great. Well, if we get desperate, I'll start singing Row, row your boat and you know when to jump in, all right? You love that moment. I thought it was so tedious. I just said they're going, really? These middle-aged men singing this song, please. They're whale bastard. Why would you tell me that? Now I've got a way of encouraging a run out of it. Let's do this. like it. All right, okay. So I will count us in 5, 4, 3, 2, one, and we're off. Here we go. Okay, so we've got the fantastic Paramount logo happening. Yes, all right. I can't even remember. Does it come in with the music straight away? You're not, da, da, da, da, da, bum, bum. I can't remember. Oh, no, it's the next gen theme for this one, isn't it? I was really surprised by that. So that's the theme for Star Trek one, isn't it? Like, because is it or isn't it? It's whenever Jerry Goldsmith does a Star Trek movie, when James Horner does it, it's another one. So, look, we're on the planet Nimbus 2, and this is like Tatooine. It's like poundland tattooine, isn't it? Like, I'm going to make a suggestion, gentlemen, that you don't vacate on Nimba 3 anytime soon. It looks miserable, doesn't it? It does. And then this guy whose secret pain is that he's just got a really really shit dentist. I thought it was like Mr. Om from, isn't that, um, like Swana's Mossider? Oh, sorry. This guy's called John. What? But he's got he's got an apostrophe. It's J. Apostvi-O-N-N. So it's on, okay. They love punctuation in the 90s though, like Star Trek. I got the impression that, you know, Cybox riding a horse. Well, it had a sort of a very exotic sound to it. And I thought, okay, it's going to be some great CGI creature or something like that. No, no, no, no, it was just a horse. See, I actually quite like the direction here of this guy of him riding in. But it would have been much better if it had been, you know somebody from the actual enterprise or something. I don't even know who he is. Yeah. I think, I mean, this guy, though. Like, I guess this is our villain. We're meeting our villain. And I actually think the villain in this. So this is Cybok. I think he's really, really good. And the actress. He's really impressed. He's he's not overplaying at all. And he's not playing it as a bad guy. He doesn't think he's a villain and so he never does villainous things. And in fact, I think this moment here with this poor, horrible ugly toothless guy. Um, like he's genuinely he's genuinely warm and kind of and empathetic. Like, you know, he says, what, you know, he says, this is all I have. All I have is this shitty field full of holes. And like Cybok just looks at him. and like holds him and like he's not doing a magic space telepathy thing or anything. Do you know what I mean? He doesn't put his hands on his face or anything like that. He just holds him and his pain goes away or his pain is reckoned with. Has a secret pain, he says, well, chaps, what would your secret pain be that Cyblock would draw out? Um, and still pretty upset about that, the ending of the most recent Doctor Who episode. Not the Billy Piper thing. I think that's awesome. Where on the rest of us. Go to the dentist. I mean look at his teeth. But look how warm. But like look how genuinely warm he is. Yeah, I agree with you then. Like, but it's sort of like I'm going, well, this is really hooking me, that is so warm and nice. You know what I'm saying? I think what's meant to hook us, isn't it? The laughing Vulcan, like the way he pulls back his thing. We see the Vulcan is, Johan says, oh, you're a Vulcan, just in case people have not heard of a Vulcan before, and then he laughs. Oh, and then because it's emotion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. because it's a Vulcan laughing. And remember that little girl in disaster, and it's the song, the laughing Vulcan and his dog. She wants to sing instead of Pharaoh Jacquan. You might think that this is the most unengaging style to a Star Trek movie, Todd, but I sat and watched a champagne bottle glacially head towards the Enterprise for about 7.5 minutes when we did one of these. You know. can get worse than this. Isn't that generation? Do we know? Do you know where this is? Where is filmed? No. It's filmed on the planet Shakari. What's it called? Shakari. Yeah. Yeah. I was reading the the, the time that they had to shoot this movie was so brief that, you know, they, you know, setups for a movie would normally take hours and hours, a lot of the camera setups they had minutes. So, you know, let's let's not be too mean. Hey. Well, I thought that was quite nicely shot. Yeah, yeah, I think it's quite nicely shot. And now we do go into the Star Trek, the Next Generation. Yeah, yeah, weirdly, which we're hearing. It did pull me out. I'm just, it's so synonymous. We're ticket G as well. It's like, okay. Well, I mean, that was the exciting thing about TNG was that it had the original Star Trek TV show music. But when the ooh kicks in, instead of that, we have the theme though. That was beautiful. You know, yeah, I've been practising. Then you would kick in with the movie theme and because, you know a lot of the visuals and stuff and a lot of the things that are only in the films are in Star Trek, the Next Generation as well. Imagine if it had gone from Cyblock laughing too. It's been a long time. Get it from there. We'd be like, oh, good grief. I mean, this isn't the most riveting of title sequences, right? It's just a load of stars. Yeah. Yeah. What the hell? David Warner? Our beloved David Warner. Oh, David, bless him. Is there a single franchise he hasn't touched? No, I don't think there is. He's been in everything. And he was, of course, the devil in time bandits, which is an absolutely stunning role. We think this is an alien planet. I just think it's a stunning shot. It's beautiful, isn't it? Yeah, I agree. I mean, I saw all of the filming around this park. Well, I mean, it goes on a bit too long when he's climbing that mountain. And well, when his stunt double is climbing the mountain, let's be fair. So this is a long sequence, but again, it's the opening credits you know, and this is a more interesting thing than spaceships flying through space or champagne bottles flying through space. And this is supposed to be watched. William Shatner's rear? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, it is sack. The stunt doubles rare is pretty delicious, actually. That's how we know it's not Kirk. So this is El Capitan, and I know about this because, you know, the Mac operating system is always named after something in California. And so it was Yosemite and then the following year it was El Capitan after this mountain. And of course, it's that Spanish for the captain. So he's climbing the captain's mountain and he's the captain. It's a thing. Do you remember in Enterprise series 4 after the big 2 parter? and there's a whole sequence like this with Archer. They do return to this, a couple of types of climbing mountains. Is it is it Yosemite? Like he goes up there with his... But he goes with, friend who is the captain of the other, um, you know, warp 5 vessel. Isn't it? It's like their version of home. Is it home? It called home. Is it called home? Yeah, yeah, it's their version of family, isn't it? I could be being very, very stupid, which is a distinct possibility, but how is he climbing that without ropes and anything? Is it the boots he's wearing? Yeah, but it's called free climbing. It is a thing that people do. What was that? There was a film fairly recently. crazy people. Yeah. But I've been here and I've seen people climbing up there like that. Okay. You've been to Yosemite. Oh, okay, wow. Okay. So what's interesting is you can tell that this is still a stunt double because this is a convincing mountain. It's an actual mountain. And then the moment that Shatner appears. It's Jabalite, something fibreglass, like a giant... It feels just like TOS. All right? Yeah, see, look, look at the mountain. It's a different colour. It's clearly just been manufactured by the guy. I mean, and then we then we have this backdrop. I mean, it looks it looks pretty great, but yes, that is very shiny and fibreglass, isn't it? I wasn't looking at the mouth. when Spock, just sock, it starts rising off. so funny. It's so ridiculous. I think that's adorable. In fact, so these are the 3 important people and these are these are the characters who the film is about. It's about their relationship. We start here. We end here. And they're irritating each other in the way that they've irritated each other throughout all of the previous Star Trek TV shows and films. What does he say? You call this relaxing. I'm a nervous wreck. No, that's right. And why is he a nervous wreck? Because he loves Jim and because Jim's being a fucking idiot climbing this mountain. But like not only is this like just to show off some money, but it's setting up that terrible gag in the middle of the movie, isn't it, where you've got the space boots and they're going down the turbo lift. It's so much fun though. But I like this. I enjoyed this at the time and I love all this banter and the fact that he's bobbing up and down or just it's adorably ridiculous. And I think it's well directed. Yeah, yeah. It beyond a massive crime. Is that how they're doing? Are they just... up and down. I'm going to have some banter as I'm like free climbing up here and I'm not going to fall. Here we go. Not quite the contrary, gravity is most definitely on my mind. I mean, it's so cute. It's so adorably spocked to have a technological way of solving this problem and to be just kind of slightly smug and irritating and and then, you know, you've got McCoy downstairs with his blood pressure spiking because, you know, he's worried for the health of both of them. I just think it's perfect. You know, it like... Concentration is vital. You must be one with the rock. No, it's not well. It's special effects now when he goes falling down. It's so funny. But that's a real guy falling with a... And now, now that... Oh, dear, look at this is Superman... Yes. Like that is so cheap. I love all this at the end. Of course he catches him just an inch from the floor, doesn't he? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. All these practical bits. Oh, good. But when you cut to that, the terrible Jabalite mountain. Oh, and that's cute too, having him running upside down. I think that's very cute. Okay. Meanwhile, back on Ninus 3. This cheap Paradise City, I mean, look at it. It's just a load of boxes, isn't it? Well, it is, again, it's Timu Moss Iceley, isn't it? Like, and this... There's no... There's no music. Wait for it. are we dancing to? But what is that enormous pussy doing dancing there on the... Just wait a second. So she's, I think she's occasion, like, to Anna, like, Dr. Tana isn't she? But this is so cheap compared to Star Wars. I know. Yeah, yeah. It's terribly cheap. It's cheap almost compared to contemporary Star Trek. Oh here we go. And here we go. You could almost count the way... episode. Three breasts. She's got 3 breasts. Why? Do you think Dr. Tana has 3 breasts? I don't know. How intriguing. Not a game changer for me, you know. Okay. Meanwhile, this gorgeous woman here, who everyone hates, apparently I don't quite know why. She's not very Romulan. We've already seen Romulans in the neutral zone at this point haven't we? I just went, this is a Romulan? Yeah, yeah. She's more of an American lady, Romulan. And they don't want to put the ears on it so she gets to wear things over ears. And certainly. They are thankless paths, though, aren't they? Yeah, yeah, well, again, you think, like, David Warner is in the opening credits. And you think he's going to do something and he does very little. I don't like her very much. I think she's pretty average. She's pretty though. But yes. Yes, she's basically an American lady. They're coming for dental work. I need it, tell us, they need it. He's getting revenge on his dentist I think. Look at this entire gang of 12 bandits. Storm the gates of the city. Oh, yeah. Okay, so this chord is, of course, familiar to people who watch Star Trek, the Next Generation, because he's Kempeck, um, in Star Trek, the Next Generation. So the original Klingon Chancellor. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he dies and is succeeded by Gauron. So it's the same actor. And there's another noteable TNG guest star in the cast here too but more of that later. So what happened? Did ILM were doing the Indigana Jones movie, weren't they? Were they doing Batman as well? No, I don't think so. But I also look at that gate. Look at that. Look how well defended that thing is. They just walk in? push it gently over. So there was something in the memory alpha thing. that suggested that they thought they might be being ripped off by ILM. You know, at this point, ILM had done all of that shooting for like, all of those brilliant, like, you know, Star Trek and Next Generation doesn't have enough money to shoot new ship visuals every week. And so it just reuses them over and over again. But they're good shots. They're clean, they look really good. Do you remember that probe? Yeah, the probe go, wob, wob, wob, in Star Trek 4? That one of those shots were amazing. And we're back on form next time. Like Star Trek 6 has great visuals, but these are shit. Like these look like TV. They just look like cheap, cheap 80s crap. And like we've had Star Wars, you said. about the bar and all of that. I think you could get away with it in a TNG episode because that's what the bars kind of look like. But we're watching a movie. Why don't they have music as well? Like, why is she dancing, that woman on the bar dancing to like literally nothing at all? I mean, she's got 3 breasts. She doesn't need music. No, I guess not. Brief. She is on Nimbus 3. That's all I'm saying. One breast for each nimbus. Who made that decision? Was that Shatner? Yeah, no, no. Three tits. Give her 3 breasts. But, I mean, the cat people thing, you know, obviously they originally come from the animated series. Okay, this shot is okay. Yeah, yeah, but it's a reuse. Isn't this all recycles? Yeah, yeah, it's a cycle. Yeah, yeah. It's from the end of four, isn't it? Yeah, when they when they see the enterprise for the 1st time. Oh, yes. So I have to say that I don't hate this subplot because it does give them something to do. And so the idea that for some reason we have a new ship, but it doesn't work properly. I hope that doesn't happen all the time. I quite like it I do too. It's fun. you know, like I think it's. Do you see those 2 extras with their feet up on the consoles? Yeah, bastards. What the hell? Oh here we go. Yeah, yeah. So now these 2 are, what's happening? I know. And she's brought crisps. She's brought her hair as well. She's got the vodka going on, hasn't she? I know, I know. But look, it is, they're just giving, don't eat the crisps, Jimmy for God's sake. So a little note on everyone's age. He is 12 years older than her. I'm sure she's 56. She's 56. Duan and Kelly at 69 when this comes down or 68, 69. Can I be horrible and say that I think DeForest really looks his age? He looks really old. Whereas I think Jimmy looks okay. Generally. Michelle looks gorgeous though. She always looks gorgeous. She does. But all that fake gray in the hair, like they're trying to age her up a bit. Yeah. She owns it, though. Yeah, so she's 56. George and Walter are 52. Uh, and um, Chatner and Nemoy are 58. And of course, this is like Star Trek is 1969. This is 1989. This is 20 years since they were, you know, all in the TV show. Fair enough. They're trying to do, you know, they're trying to do all the character comedy that you had in four, right? that was so effective in four. All of the stuff with them lost in the woods is a bit like, you know, nuclear wessels and all of that nonsense. We had him for. And it was much better written there. But it is these actors. So Nathan, you and me talk about hangtime at all the time. I'm just happy to be with these characters. having a lark. And this is so stupid. Like he's blowing in the communicator to make it seem like it's a blizzard and look at George's reaction. as well. I just very much don't breathe on me, Walter, please. But I like, um, Michelle's reaction to like, oh, the boys. Come on. They nicked that in DS9. Do you remember? Ezri Ducks is pretending there's a static storm. So that's why she can't go back to the station and Cisco's like cut it out, old man. I'm not buying it at all. Oh, beans around the campfire. Are you campers? either of you? I have camped and I don't hate it. And even last year, about a year ago I was on a school camp, which was quite fun. My husband loves camping. Oh, does he? And so I have been forced to go camping. And I have to say, for 2 or 3 days, I'm actually okay, as long as I've got a mattress in there, like a blind mattress in that, I don't hate it. But if it was raining in that, then I would absolutely detest it. So I can do it in short bursts. I had a miserable experience, you know, a gay pride in a muddy field with 8 men in a very wet tent and I never did it again. Oh, it was terrible. That just sounds like you're bragging now. Like, oh, sorry. That's camping more. So it wasn't like what we're seeing now. No, there was no bourbon. No singing. I think this is very. I mean, this is very sweet. And again, you know, like D is still doing the Vulcan racism that he's that we love him for. Now he's our elderly uncle who's racist against Falcans. I think if you are really fans of classic series, you would really appreciate this, whereas I don't quite connect with it as much, and I just think, why am I seeing these 3 middle-aged men or elderly men? Elderly men around discussing this, I'm getting a bit like I appreciate it, but at times I kind of think, oh, come on. That is right. Because, I mean, I think before we started this podcast later, none of this really would have connected me with me. But now we've seen so much of them in TOS. Yeah. I mean, they're the they're the centre of TOS in a huge way. I understand all that. And I get all the Kirk Spock stuff. I'm less with McCoy than the other two. So he's just terrible racist, Todd. Well, I've been hearing you say this many times. But when he's so grumpy all the time, I just get a bit tired. Yeah, yeah. I mean, again, because he's emotional and Spock's logical, you know, they're kind of opposites. But I think this is actually really odd and strange. And, like, it's not very good writing, but it is paid off at the end, which I think is really good, where he says, I'll die alone. And the reason that he thinks he'll die alone is not because he hates himself or he thinks fate is going to be terrible to him. It's because he has 2 loving friends who are always with him and who will always look out for him. And never in his wildish dreams, Nathan, did he dream it would be on that bridge in generations? Theridian... Well, Picard's there, I think. And Olivia Hack is not far away. Malcolm McDowell is about somewhere, isn't he? Yeah, that's true. So I don't get this joke. So it's a marshmelon. I don't know why he thinks it's a marshmallow and, um, um, Bones goes along with it for some reason. So we're toasting marshmallons. It's not a funny joke. No, it's not. I don't know what it is. It's so bad. It could be written by the Voyager riots. Well, I like what you've just said. But yes, like, I mean, I think some of the humour in this just doesn't... They want it to be funny, but it just doesn't land. But, you know, if we look at where we're up to so far in it, like you know, we've had character moments with all parts of the crew and these guys are hanging out, like, it's not a bad thing. And part of the thing is too, because I think Star Trek is primarily a TV series or a series of TV series. We're about to go row row. This is tedious. So I think it's a very mid, like it's a very boring choice. Like it's a song that small children seeing and stuff. But I just think the way they sing it here and they hardly get through it and they can't get, you know, Spock isn't into it. And then at the end, when he starts playing it, He's got that, you know, the falcon heart. And he starts playing it and I just thought, oh, this is adorable. And this is, this becomes about their relationship. It's these 3 old men sitting around a fire drinking bourbon and singing, teaching Spock to sing. Okay. Okay, I take your point, Nathan. We could depart, Captain, racist, sing this song, dude. Yeah, yeah. because I did mention that. Yeah, yeah. It could have been much worse. Oh, really? Listen to that, you green blooded Vulcan. He's such a racist. But it's the fact that they're just still annoying each other in the same way. you know, like 20 years later is what's adorable about it. It is adorable, but we are 23 minutes into this movie now, and that's the other thing. hasn't turned up, no. So I'm laughing. I liked him before he died or whatever. It's much less irritating. It's so great. I love them needling each other when they're like calling each other gym and captain and gym and stuff, which is all just sort of hilarious nonsense. And then the, you know, good night, good night, captain, good night, sport. Good night, doctor. You know, like all of that is... Yeah, yeah, yeah, apparently. Where's Janeway and Chakotay? I'm not sure. This is actually, look, they're going to sleep, for God's sake. We're in a movie. I mean what's happening? Well, that's what I'm saying. Like, it's a TV show and during the... Sorry, Nathan. Look at that model shot or that probe. I mean, you can actually see them moving it one inch at a time. Va. Isn't it? Like it's a Voyager probe. It's the other Voyager probe. The 1st one caused the 1st film. That must be Voyager 2 causing this 5th film. This Klingon, he looks a bit like me, aged 16, you know, that's all what I trust a bit like. He's quite he's quite fit. Apparently they found him playing ping-pong on a beach. Not for his acting prowess, then. Oh, yeah. Yeah, but for his physique and then they obviously he had to audition and screen test and he got the wrong. He's 25. Oh really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he's younger than everyone. Since they've built that enormous periscope that he's got there. I mean, us camp as well, isn't it? Why don't they use that in all future Klingon episodes? It's such a great prop to have. Oh, look at these effects. It's so bad. Like that's just miserable. she's very proud of that. So this woman, the character is called Vixis. Vixis, you say? Vixis. And she is played by a woman called Spice Williams, who is a stunt performer and stunt arranger. And she's spice, Nathan. Spice Williams. But she is also in the Deep Space 9 series one, episode Dax, where she plays a claystron officer who tries to abduct Jadzia. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's a great sequence actually. Yeah, because she's a large woman. Do you know what I mean? Like a large intimidating woman. We get powerful. I think do we get George pretending to admire her muscles? Oh, no, it's just like the Encounters of the Third Kind. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is a bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, even the way that they realised a shuttle, like where you don't bring the shuttle modelled here. We just shine a big lie behind the shell. There must have been a problem here, right? These are such tight shots. You can't really see what they're trying to show you. Right? They don't see the shuttles. Do they not have the shuttle? Have they just gone? No, they don't have the shot. I don't think they're on location either, I think. and go. But are they in the studio? At night? Yeah, and they don't have time to erect the tree, the tops of the tree, so everything's really sharply dark. Is that right? Yeah, yeah, I think so. I like the fact that, you know, um, Vixa, Spice, you know, the fact that there's following the old Trek tradition that you don't know whether the actor is the character or not, because they very often have, there's more bizarre names than the characters, don't they, in Star Trek? I think this was hilarious that they're in a shuttle looking at the enterprise for like, you know, a couple of minutes here, and yet they spend in the 1st movie half an hour, just circling slowly around the shuttle, admiring it. Yeah. Remember the scene in lower decks where they do that, where they're approaching the Cerritos, and everyone's just looking in awe at the, at how beautiful it is outside the shutter window while the hero lower decks music plays. wonderful style. It's funnier when they're going around DS 9. go around a few more times. Come on. I mean, to be fair, that is a great point, I said this is slow, but it's in no way as slow as the motion picture. But again here with the whole landing of the shuttle and that. I think I actually like this sequence. again, it's a practical prop. Like, when you had Shatna falling down to the bottom of the mountain, right at the end, it was practical and it actually looks it's, I think it's well directed and it looks good. I mean, look at this. You know, the actor's in that big giant Galileo thing that's landing that it's beautifully designed. It's a big update on the ones that we had 20 years ago in the show. I have got 30000000 though. I mean, I would expect special effects like that. But this does make it feel like a movie. Do you know what I mean? Like you've got much bigger studio. Like that's a big studio space with those big prop shuttles in it. You know, it's pretty good, I think. The thing that really stands out, used TNG too, yeah? is the lighting, just the lighting in these movies. is just so superior to anything they're doing on TV at this point. Well, TNG's lighting in season one and 2 is pretty, is better than it ends up being, they go with that very, you know, very big key light on everything where there's no shadows or black in the frame ever, you know? We're learning, Tom, but they... I do love this Yeah, I think the door stuff. I think it's just. I love the fact that, you know, the ship isn't all operational. Now, this woman, does she get any lines at all? She says a bun head. That is that Shatner's daughter. Oh wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's Shatner's daughter handing Shatner his uniform. She actually writes the book. I was telling you about. So it is Shatner's account, but as told by her. There's wonderful stories in that book of the 1st screening of the film before they did all the reshoes and everyone just going, oh what have we done? Terrible. But they did change a lot and they were very happy. Apparently he eventually he learned to love his own movie Shatner. So at least he had a good time. So this is Rear Admiral Bob on the screen. and Rear Admiral Bob is played by Harv Bennett, the producer. And this is his last Star Trek film because it goes so badly that someone else gets the producer's job for six. But he's been here since two. So he was the producer on that incredible trilogy of Star Trek films. I was reading that he didn't want to do this. Um, and that his relationship with Numoya deteriorated in four and he was really unsure about doing this and then he did it and yeah he regretted it. bless him. I have to say this, then I think that William Shatner actually looks pretty fit here, like, you know, I'm comparing him to the rest of the cast, um, well, he's the same age as Nemoy and I think Nemoy looks older. He does. And the 2 younger ones don't look necessarily younger than him. Yeah, especially Chekhov. And I'm sorry, this is not a great close-up on McCoy. McCoy looks quite odd. No, you actually, that was well timed, you saying that. That was a wacking great close up on De Forrest. Well, he's 70, you know? He was like, he's 70. So we're just getting the mission now. and we're 30 minutes into the movie. And the mission isn't even the thing. Do you know what I mean? Like the mission's not the actual interesting thing. The thing is that we've got a guy who is searching for God. And when do we learn about that? You know, like an hour in, it's so leisurely. And yes, it's hang time, but, but it is also really boring. It means there's just not much easy. Did you see that close-up of the Klingon ship there? So they weren't moving the camera. They were moving the model. Are you sure? Well, it looks like it. Yeah, I know, but it looks sometimes that's how they do it. You know, they're not moving the enterprise model most of the time. Because if you were moving the camera, you'd go along the body right? Whereas it was just, it was spinning. The shit was just spinning. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, see, he's good looking, this Klingon, isn't he? That, and like a cartoon, like the, what the hell is that? That's terrible. It looked a bit like the animated series, didn't it? Didn't at the start of that. You could just see the ship sort of zoom across in a way. This is wonderful, isn't it? He's about to do a captain's log, but the captain's log. doesn't work and a thing buoys off it and he has to close it and he doesn't get to do his captain's log. Again, we've had some nice little comedy moments and moments with you know, everybody, but you need some tension and pace. And then intercut with that and we're not getting it. It's just too leisurely. That's what 6 gets so right, isn't it? Is there's that whole plot going on on the ship whilst they're doing comedy moments and the blood hanging in the air and who's the traitor and all of that's going on whilst we're having fun. But I mean, it starts with the moon exploding. you know, and it starts and it's very clearly going to be about Chernobyl and the fall of the Soviet Empire and stuff. So it's about something. We know it's about something straight away. We don't know what this film's about. yet. I will say, though, the 2nd they beam down and we're having an adventure on the planet and they're trying to rescue all the people and Ahura's doing her naked and all of that stuff and them getting in there in the action. I was like, yeah, okay, this has started moving now. We've arrived. Yeah. But again, that's just a big set piece, though, isn't it? We'll get to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, wow. I mean, this stuff, I think, it seems very kind of ripped from the headlines. We've had hostages and stuff like that, I guess. I don't know. But isn't it always the way that, you know, somebody has to recognise the villain and not really say anything about it? I mean, obviously it's going to be Spock here. Yeah. Yeah. But look how, look how old Spock looks compared to Shatner. It is the choice between fat and old that we're all eventually faced with, I think. You either look like Nathan. You can sort of smooth out the wrinkles. I mean, look at the light effect I've got today, look. You can smooth out the wrinkles with a good lighting designer. Maybe they just weren't earning their money. So where are we now? So this, I wondered that. I kind of went, what is this room? Is this the captain's ready room? Is it the lounge? Why have we got this big wheel? I think it's the lounge and I think the original plan was for it to be in the same place that 10 forward is on the Enterprise. on the Enterprise D. And there was even some talk about getting the um, like amending the model. So it had that big window on the front, but it doesn't. And so this is the lounge, so it is sort of like 10 forward, I guess, but not a bar. I think it's a nice space. That's a very ostentatious bit of decoration though, that wheel. But the whole thing with all the wood is like an old sailing ship. Yeah, yeah. And it has to bold to go where no one has gone before on a plaque on it. Sorry to be niche, but were you getting Doctor Who Enlightenment vibes? Oh, maybe. Styles there. Yeah, yeah, certainly. So this is some valuable exposition about cybok. Animal passion. Of course, it's his half brother. It couldn't just be another Vulcan could it? No, that's right. But it's like, you never tell me you heard a brother before. And then it's kind of like, and he's thinking to himself, yeah. And I'm not allowed to tell you about my sister either. Um, yeah. Yeah, he's got a lot of hidden siblings, that one. I'm just looking at the lighting on the faces and very favourable for William there. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's right. giving himself some excellent hero lighting. I'm going to be horrible. He knows where the camera is on me, will you? Can I be a bit horrible about, yeah, go on, the bell bottoms? Oh, you don't like the? No. No, I don't. So Picard adopts the bell bottoms in series five. Remember his special Picard velour outfit or whatever it is, suede his suede jacket, which has the power bottoms. What episode is that in? In, like, quite a few episodes of series five. He's got the special his own special uniform. I mean, they're naval, so it's a thing. So, Jimmy's only been in one scene so far with the main cast when they arrived on to the Enterprise and the Dock, and now he's just doing all of his scenes by himself. Yeah, he steals the movie, right? The bit where he gets knocked out. I bet I got the biggest laugh in the theatre. undoubtedly, I would think so. Chekhov has said nothing for agents. I mean, look at the scale here. The shuttle, the planet and the moon. It's just all the wrong sky. It's really bad. Now we're doing aliens. I mean, because this, you know, like... Well, a drop ship, but we've turned it into, you know, it doesn't look like the Galileo from Galileo 7. It looks like a drop sheep. I mean, that, genuine, the shuttle coming in. Oh, they look at that. Oh, that's terrible. What is this? Is this out of some sort of video game from 1984? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it also, I think it also really kind of does look like the animated series. you know, in all sorts of ways. The shuttle coming in looked like Harry Howell sort of stopped motion animation. I mean, it just looks terrible. I do like this stuff with Captain Jakov. Yeah. Anything with the actors, I'm kind of all right. And again, we're cutting to the actual physical prop landing. That looks good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. Does look good. Again, though, I think they're moving the prop rather than the camera. Yeah, yeah, I think they are. I think, I mean, I think that prop has to end up on Star Trek the Next Generation at some point, surely. That shuttle, surely. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think you see the shuttle in TNG until, you know, the one you hate with the 2 Captain Picard in season two. E squared or something? Yeah, that one. Yeah, something like that. Is it E squared? I can't remember How many minutes are we into this movie? Oh let's have a look. We haven't had a single bit of action, yeah? Well, 38 minutes. And there's been no deadly danger. No, no, we're just, now we're getting ready. Oh, this... Well, no, the danger here is like, you know, will Cybox survive this attack on Paradise City? Why would we care about that? So they've got to steal some of the horses and the horses have been dressed in the great Star Trek tradition. They are dressed up with they give it little horse. Here we go. That moon behind her is bloody enormous, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. It's down near the horizon. Is she naked? So what's she using it? Is it sort of like bird feathers? Is that what she's got? I don't know. I thought they were big palm trees. She is so alluring to the locals. I mean, just the locals told. It's hilarious. Like she's 56. She looks great. I mean, and I've been, I've seen a 56 year old. take a look at those lotals, all right? They look terrible. Is she trying to outdo like Tina Turner from Beyond the Thunder? Oh, possibly, but... It's a very odd dance she's doing. It's a bit like the Tarantella, isn't it? what she's doing. I mean, good honour. Hello, boys. It is a moment. I've always wanted to play to captive audience. good for you Well someone did, I did read someone say that, oh, I think I might have been on Jamma's review site and I was reading the comment thread on this, and someone said that they had heard Michelle at a convention say how much she loved doing that. scene. So go for a go. I'm sure she did. Oh, she got something to do, Nathan. Another thing we noticed about TOS is she doesn't do a lot. No, she just answers the phones, really. Imagine if, saying, I don't know, Gates McFanon got to do that in a TNG movie. I'd watch that. Are they just got to walk in? Like, no one seems to be fighting here. No, because they're pretending to be the lookouts that they've just tied up or whatever the fuck happens then after... Have you noticed? They've given the horse's horns look. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I'm saying. They've got little horns on them like the dog does. Remember the bad dog in that episode of TOS? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The one on our logo. Yeah, that guy. He's gonna, it's like a dog dressed in a in an outfit to look like an alien. Oh, here we go. Some action. Someone's got a bazooka. An explosion? Bloating lights. Yep. Oh, wow. that was George. That was George. And so again, this is really good. This is great because he's not a villain. This is, things are going wrong. He wasn't expecting this at all. He doesn't want people to be harmed or die. He wants the ship, doesn't he? Yeah, but to go and get God. He doesn't want to hurt anyone and he doesn't... How was he going to take the shit without any action? Can I just say that when William did that action bit to knock that guy out, it didn't actually look like he connected with him at all? Because we're watching this, obviously, without the sound. Again, Todd, that's very like the original series, that is. Yeah. Okay, so, you know, with something's happening. We've got this action sequence, which is all fine. Oh, now... He's doing the falcon nerve pinch on the horse. Oh watch out. Here's a big gun. Jesus Christ. Look at the size of that thing. Yeah, Gatling gun. Like, what's happening? Now we're shooting people with machine guns. That's no good. Don't do that. The casino light's gone. Wait for it. Wait for it. Oh, this is. Oh, who's going to attack you in here? I just couldn't. Just waiting for it. I'm just waiting for me. Oh, and wait for it. A few spins around and then I know what I'm going to do. Oh, okay. This is longer than I can. reminds me, you know, of Dr. Tana and Shaq's having it. Yeah, that's right. Except, except we've got you. We've got you, and now I'm going to throw you on the pool table which is a pool, and she said, she doesn't get up. Yeah, there you go. Have you tried to see if she's okay? Have you tried giving a cat a bath? Okay, yeah, you can be dramatic. They don't want to go near it. Oh my goodness. David Warner's like, yes, I'm back in the movie. From one scene. I fear that that cat attacking Captain Kirk may be the highlight of the film, you know, it's all downhill from here. That was our one burst of energy, I think, that the film has. If you look at that fellow there, do you see the fellow with the terrible latex all over him holding the gun? It doesn't even look like Matt Smith in time of the doctor. I thought you were going to say Neelix. Yeah, I was going to say nearly. I would never be that cruel, Todd. No, no, this is a Neelix friendly podcast. Yeah, we like we like Ethan. He's very sweet. John is looking very happy for someone with those teeth, isn't he? He's going to get some dental work soon. Like Starfleet dental work. Because they have socialised medicine in the Federation. Oh no. Do you think he got extra money for looking that bad? Oh, he must have... Yeah, yeah, yeah. latex eyebrow ridge as well. Like he's got he's got, you know, latex on his face. I don't know if you're going to go back and look at the mask at the back. The guy holding the gun. That's terrible. But it's out of focus, fortunately. It's almost the entire cast of the movie in this show. Yeah, yeah, except for Chekhov. Have you noticed how sort of Warner's got that sort of Backstreet Boys haircut as well? The chaos. So when you're tacky, bonarious. Oh my goodness. He does. I really like Cybok. I just think he's so good. Like I like him so much. I think it's a great character. You know, it's not Nero or Khan or F. Murray Abraham with, you know, stretched latex all over his face. He's just a very nice man and a religious man who wants people to feel better, you know. I like that as well, especially all the bits on the ship where in any other movie, it would all be played melodramatically, but all the stuff, you know, where he's making McCoy see his pass and stuff like that. You just genuinely believe he wants to help them. And when he's interacting with our other characters, like they're nice. They like him, you know, they trust him. But I didn't quite get like, like when he does his little mind thing with them and they reveal their secret and they become nice and they come around to his ways. I didn't quite get that up to this point when I was watching it as to, so the ambassadors have come on board because they've revealed their darker secrets and then he's going to do the same to the to Rihura and them. And so I actually quite like how that's sort of revealed. Like sometimes you will piece it together before, what's going on but I kind of worked it out, was a bit stupid, didn't quite work it out, and I quite liked that. I really like the twist that they, you know, that when they meet the ambassadors, the ambassadors are on his side and that it's not Stockholm syndrome or whatever. It is that he's genuinely been nice to them and help them feel better about themselves. And, you know, I don't know. But don't you think it's some manipulation as well? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And if this is negative about religion, and I think it is given that, you know, later on, Chatter is going to be hunted through the sand dunes by God. So it is saying something negative about religion and, you know, he is a religious figure. So there is something manipulative. And remember, you know, there's things like confession where you tell a priest, the things that are weighing on your heart and stuff. You know, so there's there's that sort of, there is a kind of negative feel to it. But just that's not how this guy plays it. He just plays him as just a nice guy. That's lovely. I just got distracted by the Klingons chest thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is still supposed to be a piece of entertainment. right? And in a movie where there's already a lack of accident, action, a lack of fast narrative. And then you have a lack of a fun villain. He's a good villain, but he's not a fun villain, then I don't know maybe maybe Christopher Plummer. No, right, Avoc. And let's slip the dogs of war, you know. I mean, there's a reason why these actors are in these movies. Yeah. I just got reminded of Amanda Plummer, of course, because it's a father-daughter pair of Star Trek movie villains. It's tremendous song. on in Star Trek two. you know there's some great villains in these movies. No, I really like him too. Like, I think he's a nice guy and he's got good intentions generally, but it's sort of like, at this point in the movie, we need to up the ante and really go to something that's going to really be dangerous. What is really going on? And then I think I think it's a bit of a fizzle. Well, yeah, and I think they're trying to, like, we're in peril at the moment, not because of cybog, but because of, is it Clar? Like he's the worst, the worst Klingon name. Captain Claw with 2 A's. Old 2 A's is here. He does get a great moment later, though, where he makes his son apologise. Ice choice. Oh, like at that point. But I think they're supposed to be the over the top villains aren't they? It's the young Klingon. Yeah, it doesn't really impact in the way it probably should. Do you remember when you had Lurther and Bator in generations? I mean, we were so happy when they turned up. I wish they had escaped in an escape pod to come back years later. They were great. They were awesome. That is a wonderful story, isn't it? Where Robert O'Reilly, Gowron, and they said to him, well, we're in the movie and you're not, and he's like, oh, you're in the movie, are you? Well, see you later then. See you again. Yeah, and he's still working like he's in like the 3rd last episode of DS9, isn't he? Something like that, yeah. Yeah, so this, like his action sequence, again, this, I don't know what, why am I bored? I just don't feel the tension here. Like, oh, we've got to have the tractor bean, but oh, this is my 1st gem. Oh, another humourous thing from Zulu. I mean, nobody's facial expressions is really suggesting panic or anxiety, is he? David Warner, who looks very worried. George is doing some mugging. He kind of doing comedy eye expressions. I was going to say that. Look at this. 30 million. The cartoon. Get ready. I reckon we do on next gen. I reckon 1000000 went on the periscope and it was well spent on the periscope, the periscope's boss. It's, here we go. Oh yeah, look at that. Reused? I don't know. I don't know. Now you better get. No, No, I think it's bad. Okay, yeah. This sort of submarine red lighting is a lot kinder on everybody's face, you know. Oh, this is so bad. But again, because that's that's practical and that's much better. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. The close-up practical stuff. And because we saw it done properly. The reason that we got to see it done properly before is we get to see George fuck it up later on in the film when they don't use the tractor beans. I mean, can I ask, do they have those nets? Did you see the nets in the cargo bay? Are they there just in case they crash? Yeah, yeah, yeah. into the cargo base? Yes. That's got to happen sometimes, you know, like, I don't know. And look at the things on the floor. That's pretty cool too. Oh, the Galileo's all, but... Everybody inside is dead. is knocked out. Okay. I can't remember. Why does that happen? Is it so that, I don't know, so that the tables turn, so that they get guns or something? I can't even remember now. I watched this this afternoon. This is one of the bits where I had to... Oh, where they wrestle for the gun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think we can wrestle for the gun. I did have to rewind this bit because I had stopped paying attention. Here we go. I was just going to get them first. Oh, the tension. Second attention. My gosh. We're about halfway through. So there had to be something. guess so. We still don't know about gold, though, do we? We still don't know where we're going. And we have on Star Trek five. Take off. That's what I want you to do just in this holding pattern. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, the thing is, I wouldn't lose those childing moments at the start, but really, you should get to the point quicker than 45 minutes in or wherever we are now. very strong. 50 minutes in. He's very strong doing this. Falcans are... But, you know, I would care more if he was a villain, you know? Whereas he's actually quite nice and he's doing this if you don't quite believe that he's going to do much damage to Kirk, you know? Like, do you remember Star Trek too? Do you remember how quickly Star Trek 2 got to the point? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And taking over Chekhov and literally admitting it's a revenge, you know, it's a revenge story. It was so quick to the point. You know what? I think that William's gone and watched the next generation at this and realised this is what Star Trek Friends want. So that's what I'm going to bring to... Well, it's season two. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Before they don't even have any royals on that point. No. Yes. But I'm not sure I like Shatniko going kill him too. Kill him with a big gun. I mean, like, why can you not hit him until he falls over? peace that he didn't do it, isn't he? And what's happened to the doctor's arm? Like, oh, he like the crash in the crash? But does he keep doing that all the way through? can't remember. I just thought it was for that sequence. So do we ever mention Cybop again? Oh, no, we do, don't we? In, um, which Kursman Trek is inch New World? in Strange New World? So Tupring is working in some kind of penal facility for Vulcans and that's established. And I think at the end of one of the episodes, probably in season one, we discover that, oh, it's in the serene squall, we've done it. Do you remember the serene squall? Yeah. that pirate is trying to get her partner out of Tapring's facility and it turns out her partner's Cybogg. Young Cyborg. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We just see him in silhouette. See, here's giving a moment alone. Don't be afraid, and then they're going to fall under his spell. Yeah, yeah. I know he's finding out like, you know, good stuff, but I still think it's mind control. Oh, yeah, no, it is. It's not played as mind controlled. Do you know what I mean? It's not played as a mad thing. played a different way. It's not played as totally evil. But they've been brought around to his way of thinking through what he's done. So it is mind manipulation. Yeah. But, but it's presented as something kind. So I never realised this. in the brig, right? And that's the toilet. Isn't it? He's about to sit on the toilet, so he's kidding me. No, no, because it says not used while in space, dog. Oh, no. And then he pulls it out of the mall and he sits on it. It's some of that human. toilet humour. Oh your brother. Your brother, brother. Well, because the brother thing's important too. Again, this gets resolved in the very final scene, where where Shatner says, I lost a brother once. you know, but then I got him back. God, those outfits are ugly, aren't they? Yeah, they really are. They look like army surplus. Yeah, that's the toilet. I think I used to have one for cadets at school. Yeah, yeah. really looks like that. Oh dear. Oh, we really doing this. You and Cybok have the same father, but different mothers? Yeah, yeah. That's how it happened. Why did you know this before? We need it for the plot. that's right And while I'm here, I have a sister. Let me tell you about Michael Burton. She'll be very important later on in the franchise. She'll be responsible for everything. And yeah, so why don't you throw him in the brig? Well, he's already here. Like that's the thing. Oh, here we go. How do we get out of here? I really like that too. And in fact, I really like that scene. Again, this is just the 3 of them, again, locked in a room together. This has been their last 20 years has essentially been this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is what this is about more than anything else. Look at George. Like he just... I'm sorry, sometimes his facial expressions just don't work. He seems very happy. I don't dislike him, but he's interesting. He was really unhappy that they made his character gay in the Kelvin universe. Yeah, and I mean, I kind of get it because, you know, as an actor there, he must have had the fear that if it was generally known that he was gay, that would restrict what he could be cast as. You know, like nowadays, you can cast Jonathan Bailey as a straight man and everyone in the Dandy cinema will laugh when he... Not convinced, but yeah. No, no one did. But I think if you're a gay actor playing a character that's straight. You want to think that you've done a convincing job that nobody would really know. But I mean, because, you know, it never really came up. No, it was just neutral. Yeah, yeah. Oh, he does call, doesn't he call a fair maiden at one point? But the end of the movie, you know, they're both interested in the Klingon woman. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. Oh dear. So he is straight. But, I mean, I think we should be so happy that I just put in a gay character in Star Trek, for God's sake. I know. I mean, I do like all of this, but I just wish there was more actual... danger and a real reason why we need to escape, like because there's an urgency because something is going to really bad happen and we still don't... But there's no pace to any of this. We're just in a room nattering. And and so there's a line later on where God tells them, oh, you must have had a very difficult journey to get here. And all I could think was, no, not really. They just sort of drove up here. Can I ask a question? He's announcing his intention to the rest of the ship. How many, like, I mean, I know it's just been out of space, dog but how many other people are there on this ship? Is nobody actually going to try and mount sort of an attempt on the bridge or something? Like we're all just walking around the corridor. I think they all like him. Oh, did you see him in the corridor? They're all just going, yo, I haven't thought about those questions. No. How interesting. God, that sounds great. Maybe we could meet him. Oh, let's go, who is this fucker, for God's sake? The carpet's very T&G, isn't it? We lose the carpet, Todd, don't we, in Kursman Shrek? It's such a shame. They do make fun of the carpet. We got it back in TNG. No, so TNG, Picard series 3, didn't we? Yeah. Well, that's the thing that that's the thing that Picard says that he misses the most about the Enterprise D. It's the 1st thing he mentions when he goes on the bridge, the carpet. It was a very funny bit of trivia, wasn't it? when they had to hoover that bloody bridge set before they all went on it and nobody is allowed on this set until we shoo, all right? Wow. So, Shakari, um, which is apparently because they wanted Sean Connery to play Cybok, um, but he was busy uh, doing Indiana Jones. So the planet is called Sean Connery. I think it would have been a more knowing performance, don't you? With Connery in this, it would have been more winky winky to the audience. I think. Yeah. I mean, I like the way this guy plays and I think he's really good is good. But you have to think that Connery would lift it though, don't you? He's not a movie villain, is he? He's just, yeah, he's good. I don't know if he's got like presence for a movie. But Joe, as you said, like this is much more of a TV episode. A distended TV episode. It's still a season three. We're in the Fred Freiburger season 3 of TOS. I was thinking, I was trying to think, Brennan Bragger and Joe Manosky or something like that. Day Voyager, yeah. Choppy waters, Todd. Oh, now this... Stand back. And they don't. Oh, for goodness sake, when have you working out? It's so damn. The story is grown. But this is well done, Scotty. Like, you have got, you know, some urgency. Don't you recognise a jail break when you see one? Oh, look, look, Sulu is mesmerised. Yes. I mesmerised. Here we go. Here's our moment coming up quite soon. Now, why are they so... It's a movie, I guess, and that has to fit the cast. Some other cast are a bit bigger than that. I think he's where the money went, isn't it? This corridor. This giant Jeffreys tube. Well, these people are all fucking 70. They're not crawling along on their hands and knees in a Jeffries tube. No, of course. You're amazing. This is so well tied. This is great comedy. But just the way it collapses. That is fantastic. Now we're on the Enterprise team. We're watching GNG. What's going on? This reminds me of Charlie and the chocolate factory or the Doctor Who, that classic planet of the Daleks. Yes. When they're going up the shoulder shaft. Oh, this whole sequence is just delirious. I had so much fun watching this. And again, where at climax is the 3 of them all holding on to one another? Like those 3 men are all holding each other in order to grow up and down the shaft. so far. I'll get him to Sick Bay. I think from the 2nd that Scotty releases them from the room, it suddenly picks up again now, and it's a lot of very fun moments. Now, we have a massive problem here. It's a huge continuity problem, so I'm very, very upset and I'm writing to my MP as we speak. On a normal ship, deck one is the top deck and the and the decks are lower. Yeah. Oh, we're going up. But we're going up and the numbers are also going up. Also, it seems like the ship has like 70 decks or something which is absolutely... Where did we come from? I don't know who cares? He's been wearing those boots for the whole film. He's wearing them for an hour. But he's gone and got them. And then... Oh, maybe he went and got them. And then he's gone. But do you see what I mean? I'm bored. Yeah, yeah. It's getting those 3 men holding each other. It's making just so visible, that weird independent relationship. It's adorable. It's perfect. There we go. Yeah, I do like it. Like, it's nice. And it's like, that's a lovely shot looking down at them coming down. I mean... Fire the rockets. Again, some nice direction there. 52. Oh, wow. Deck 64. Watch out. Oh, come on. Back 77. Oh, the decks aren't all in the right order, Todd. Can I just say? Like, we've just, that's the pinnacle of the movie. Yeah, I forget the most action you gave again. You are right. There is very Planet of the Daleks, isn't it, going up and down that shoe? Yeah, yeah. Wow. Well, we're back in 10 forward. You know when they went zooming up, you could really see that they were attached to that wall. No expenses paid. Spared. But like, I said, to you, no, from Disneyland, a message. Like, Star Trek should be silly. Yeah, I agree. Absolutely it should. You've got to have those comic moments. That's what makes any science fiction, you know? That's what makes, sorry, to go off track, Doctor Who. Yeah, exactly. And it makes it real. But I mean, this isn't the expanse or foundation or something like that. You know, it's not a serious. It's not science fiction, science fiction. It's got to be silly and it's got a long history of being sick. But there are times, Nathan, like early enterprise, late TNG where it does forget sometimes and it becomes very worthy and tictatorial. Oh, they're going to the barrier. Okay. So in the 2nd pilot where no man has gone before, we go to the galactic barrier and that galactic barrier surrounds the entire galaxy and you can't go through it. Never mentioned again until now. If you're a TOS fan, you would know this. You would know this because it's in the 2nd episode. And in Discovery series 4, there's actually an episode called The Galactic Barrier, because they've decided it's real, and they have difficulty going outside the galactic barrier in that. They just mentioned the great barrier there. This is the Great Barrier, which surrounds the Galactic Centre. Sorry, Queensland. I'm sorry I'm sorry. So there's barriers in the middle and on the outside of the galaxy like one of those everlasting gobstoppers, you know, you suck away a bit and then there's another layer, another fucking barrier. He doesn't look happy. Yeah, I think I think probably the doctors said no to the teeth. No to the teeth. Oh, now you just have to learn. A bit in a minute, right? Where he seduces, I'm making that sound more exciting than it is. McCoy. He didn't want to do it, did he? De Forrest didn't want to do that scene. And Shatner said to him, that is some of the best acting you're going to get to do in a Star Trek movie in ages. Do the bloody scene. Why didn't he want to do it? I have no idea, but he, it was in that book. He had great objections to that scene and they did have to be convinced. Oh, here we go. Seduction. There was a madman. Oh my goodness, he's put me in touch with my feelings in a way that I've always wanted to express. So much I want to tell you, Scotty. You see that? Like, this stuff is actually quite fun. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. In a way. I mean, pairing them up works. It gives them both something to do at least. You can haggle single full. You can certainly handle Wahura, surely. Yeah. Yeah. So, so this scene, I, like, I think this scene is good, I guess. And again, it's showing us what he's doing because you're right, it is just mind control. He's taking the ship over by making them all like him and want to do what he says. Um, and I guess that's as insidious as just, you know, using a brain control beam or something. But here we get to actually experience it. We've seen it happen to other people, but now we get to see subjectively what it's like for McCoy to experience it. Can I just say at this, I think at this point in the movie, I'm actually enjoying this more than when I was watching it alone. That often happens. It's off on the way, you know, with the really bad stuff. But there's lots to recommend this. Like lots of nice little bits. I think I agree with. Tot's take on Cyblock in that is manipulation, but I think it isn't presented that way. And I think because he's not presented in a villainous way, like he would be in a TNG episode or something like that, it would be far more explicit in the direction and things like that. And in the performance, there's some ambiguity there. Yeah. I mean, there's an anti-religious message, I guess, in a way. Do you know what I mean? But it's not a not, you know, he's not using a mind control ray to get people to obey him. He is being kind to them. This is well done, isn't it? He's really well done, but again, there's no oomph. We should this should be dynamic, this movie. Yeah, with this, is he the only one seeing this? Like, is this what he does to everybody else? Like they just see this, but for some reason, we're just seeing his version of it compared to everybody else's that we don't get to see. But does Jim or Spock see this? or they just see him going? Well, I think somehow, yes, they do because they comment on it, I think. Let's have a look. But I think that they, you know, it doesn't fully make sense, I think. But why does he have this ability rather than other Vulcans because he's let his emotions in? Yeah, something like that. Again, it's not clear though, is it? Because I don't think there's ever a shot or from their point of view where you just see McCoy and his dad isn't in the shot. No. But I think, I mean, it is interesting to direct it this way because, like, I mean, if you was, I don't know, if you were in Heaven forbid a Voyager episode, you'd see some sort of shimmery thing and you'd be going into the dream or whatever. Whereas here you just walk into it. It's very theatrical, really, isn't it? Like, there's an artifice to it. Of course, this man is only 8 years older than DeForest Kelly. When he only looks 2 years old. They've mastered the old age makeup at this point. They could have given him another 15 layers, could they? He's looking pretty wrong. And I like this too, because this is like 1989, and I don't think a sister dying was un, well, even now it's still controversial isn't it? Like he is he's euthanising his father. Yeah, I think this would have been a bit of a thing. Yeah, yeah. And so I think it's brave and progressive in a way. You know, the last film we were talking about, the whales. Can I just say like, De Forrest Kelly's acting in this sequence is very, very good. Terrific. And it shows what a good actor actually is. And most of the time he's just as grumpy, you know, whatever. But in this moment, you can see what he is capable of. Well, there's a moment in a 2nd where him and Cyblock are start grappling with each other and they're talking about the assisted suicide and it gets mildly hysterical. Nathan, you and me, I've done some episodes recently with, you know, Robert Duncan McNeil in moments of... But it just goes to show you when a good actor's doing it. You know, it's very different. And but look how Cybocket intervenes here. And he says it's okay. You know, like you did the right thing. He's felt bad because there's a cure. There's a cure comes later. But Cybok is, and like Cybok is holding him and stuff, you know like it's, would get so much more out of this, if Cybok did it to a number of different people, like to Jim and to Spock and to somebody else. You could learn so much, couldn't you? But then if it then went somewhere, like this is hurting people in the long term or doing something to them, you know, negative, like really negative, not a positive, right? Now, see, look, they're watching. They're watching this happen. So they definitely see it. They're watching this between... They're not seeing the old man on the bed. Yeah, you're right. right. But he is at least talking to them. you know, with with Johan. It was just, you know, he gives him a hug and takes his pain away. Here we have some dialogue where he explains why he did, he did okay. See, I hide no pain. Like, I would just, yeah, let's do it. So we do do it to him. And what I think is interesting is that, and it plays into the theme. The reason it does work on McCoy, right? McCoy has, he's been, he's been given the shit. Right? Now we get to see Spock. And Spock says to Cybock, yeah, but I'm not that. I'm not the foundling, like the lost boy, the, the, I can't remember the dialogue exactly. Yeah, I know. It's not Jane Wyman. all good scenes, right? Yeah, these are not movie scenes. These are episode scenes. There's just a few people in a room. Where's the spectacle to this? But I think, so what this is, though, is the reason that this doesn't work on Spock is because Spock isn't an outsider anymore like he was as a child. He doesn't feel the sting of Sarik's rejection. because he has McCoy and Kirk. Do you know what I mean? And so it doesn't work on him because he doesn't feel like he's a reject. This is his father rejecting him for being too human, that doesn't sting for Spock anymore because he's got sequence where they were flying up and down in the shaft a minute ago. And then McCoy doesn't go with Cybok either, even though he's been helped by Cybok because there's something more important than that. And it's that relationship between the 3 of them. And so, you know, like, I think it does get somewhere. It's probably the most interesting thing in the movie, yeah, these sequences. Yeah. I just don't think they belong in a movie. And I think watching them now with you, I'm seeing them. And that's good, but I just think that, okay, this is great, but could it have been housed in something else around it to make it really impactful as a crux for the main part of the movie or the you know, solving the problem or whatever? like that would have been brilliant. Yeah, I think, because I think too, what ends up happening is that we just go with them to the bridge and it doesn't solve the problem. This doesn't solve the problem. After this, we all just wander off to the bridge and just stand there while he does what he was going to do anyway. Do you know what I mean? This isn't them deciding to fight back or anything like that. It's not them deciding that what cybot can give us is nothing compared to what we give each other, which is what we discover, but that doesn't end up pushing the plot along. It just needs to be linked into the denouement or whatever, and it could actually be far more impactful and just help this movie along. Yeah, I agree. No one stitched it all together, did they? No one thought of a through line with all of this. What you said at the start told about this just being a series of sort of unconnected bits and pieces. it's true Look at the galactic barrier through the through the window. That looks pretty great. Sorry, the Great Barrier. The Great Barrier? The Great Barrier. There is a huge distinction between the two. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I cannot go with it. Yeah, see, like, I like that. And then then McCoy also realises like he's had happened to him exactly what happened to Ahura, but he doesn't go with Cybok either. Because he's got something better. Plus, they're the big 3 so they can resist. Yeah, yeah, well, that's right. They're the main characters. You'll never make it through the Great Barrier. Well, I hate to tell you, but it's going to be pretty easy. Yeah, that's right. It's so it's such a nothing. They must have just cut stuff out. Yeah, I think they must have. I think it was a really shitty special show. No, no, no, it was butchered in the editing room. He does have the look of a villain's sidebalk, doesn't he? You've got a great look. He does. I think the original runtime was much longer and they needed to cut it to this one hour 45. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I mean that's long enough. Yeah, oh yeah. Oh, wait. Yeah, look at that. Look how terrible that is. really looks like the animated series doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, no. Oh my god. The edge of the Great Barrier, the centre of the universe. No ship can survive this. Maybe they're going to spend all the money on how they realise God at the end of the movie. Oh wait. Now that looks like the opening of the never ending story. It looks like, you know, you put the oil on the on ink and oil, a new marble paper in primary school. I'd rather imagine that's what it is, actually. Yeah, he probably is. Doctor Who and the Daleks. Yes, yeah. The movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where they just pour paint into a mixer or something. Oh wait, wait, we're getting there. What do you imagine the special effects people did with the rest of the money? I don't know, drank it. So snorted it. It was the 80s. They stuck it up their nose. This is very never ending story. Look at this. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so we're now through The Great Barrier. So that was nothing. That was like 20 seconds, 30 seconds, and that's it. Shit, there's been no second. No one no, threw themselves across the set or anything. See, I think that needed to be a tough thing to do. Yes, that's the other thing. There's no obstacles. Jeopardy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. no obstacles. It's so linear. like literally nothing happens. He takes over the thing. The enterprise comes. He takes over the enterprise. He goes to Shakaree, he meets God, and then it all goes. We went through this barrier. Why couldn't it be like generations and they go through to, where do they go to there with Olivia Hack? They go to... The Nexus? That's pretty lousy as well. at least there's some damage. But I was actually thinking that maybe those, um, those weird sequences, those were doing the same job, that terrible nexus, that terrible nexus vision so bad. Trouble is, they're all there going, my God, it's incredible amazing, sort of looking out the screen. But if the special effects don't actually reflect that. No. Well, you can't even see it. Do you know what I mean? They're all talking about it, but the camera's in front of it, like between us and the viewscreen or whatever. They're all seeing something slightly different. like Eden whatever. Okay. How many reaction shots can you get? We've only got 15 seconds of special effects. David Warner looks like a vicar. Look at that outfit. And that Romulan woman looks like she's going to some party, like Oscar's party. Yeah, she does, does she? But not for this movie. Well, she's a model as well. The actress. She's an actress and a model. She's got multiple talent. She does, Nathan. Well, she hasn't shown much. sort of bizarre commentary on this is how easy it is to find gold. Yeah, no, they do say that. They do say... why is it so easy? They're the 1st people to ever try, apparently. Because the galactic, the, damn it, the great barrier is so scary. Oh, and now God's a busy man. Let's go. That's a good Lord. Yeah. I actually think too, that what does God want with a starship? And everyone thinks that's a really cheesy hokey line. It's the moment where he realised that this can't be God. If it's God, why does he want my starship? Do you know what? It reminds me in the back of my memory of a Space 199 episode. Isn't there a fake god on a planet in that? Oh, that's a bunch of them. That's nearly every episode in series one. But I'm just saying it's 1976, is it? Are we doing this again? We've just had a load of reaction shots of them going through the Great Barrier. Now we've got a load of reaction shots with them going onto the planet. this pink planet. They just don't want to move this thing on, did I? No, no. We're looking. Uh-oh. No, I don't know control. Oh, they're God. He's taking control of Jesus, take the wheel. Yeah. But do we have a phone? I can't remember. Even though I watched this last week. Did we actually find out what the god entity was? Well, I think... No. It's been Spanish, but it's always been trapped there by something. Yeah, yeah. because it can't get out. No that's right. Thus, it must be evil. It's open to interpretation. Look at this. That looks terrible. That's... It's like V the mini system. Purple. Don't you insult feed a miniseries? Oh, no, no, no. I absolutely love V. Everything to do with it, but sometimes the shuttles landing to look a bit hokey. But look how warm this thing is. Like, that is Shatner who hasn't had his brain melted by Cybogg. Nice shot. Hasn't had his brain mounted by Cybok agreeing to not take weapons with him. Now we're on the Copernicus, is it? Yep, yep. Because we could be, he could have shot God. imagine that. Cybox has had a haircut. That... Mr. Mott. He was working on this... On the way to... His hair was enormous before. God sakes. No, Johan. Chahan gave him a haircut. Maybe this was one of the re shoes. Yeah. does actually make him look a bit younger, doesn't it? It does. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Bills not happy about that. No. Somebody, and we're just looking at some rocks. Oh, look rock. And these guys are looking at things too. But they all, and then we've placed our what, our, our ham quarter? What's taking that shot? Exactly. Is this where we show arena? Is this there? No. I think this is just where they were for Paradise Village or whatever it was called. What was it called? Paradise City. the same desert, doesn't it? It does. Oh, God, we're going into it and it's not going to be stock cave set, is it? in Paramount. Yes. We will go. We will go to a paint. Well that's true. Yeah. Hopefully with some movie licing, though. We're picking our way very, very slowly around this mountain, for God's sake. Joe, it felt less slow when I was watching it by myself. I don't know why it feels so slow. You weren't having to think of things to say. It's like, oh, my God, my phone a bit as well. All these people are still standing here. Where are the crisps? There's Melanie. There's Melanie. Still looking at the thing. John, dad, to come back. There's Johan. Jehan and Melanie are dating. Days of reaction shots. Did they shoot? The William Hartnell title. Now we're going very slowly to wolf this screen for some reason. But wait for it. Oh, my God. Klingons are coming on there. Stunning animation. Nobody's looking at that. No, no one ship inside a box. We're so mesmerised. Oh, okay, we're going downhill, so we just tilted the camera. Yes, I think you might be right. I think you might be right. And we've got a pink filter. Everything's pink. Which is fine. It's something, isn't it? It's space thing. It's a joke now. Where we going? Where the hell is gold? Is he here? Yeah. I thought God was everywhere. Now, God's about to appear. God is about to appear. But apparently, wasn't he supposed to originally have been the Klingon chancellor and then they bumped him up to God? Yes. So the guy who plays God is George Murdoch, who played Admiral Hanson in Best of Both Worlds. And you can see that now that I've told you that, you will be able to see that. in a much more rewarding role. Remember, he was talking to Picard about Shelby and then he was in the Battle of Police. Is he the one that he's on the ship that Writer was supposed to be the captain of? No, no, no, the Melbourne. No, he, um, but he does, he does FaceTime them from the Battle of Will 359 and gets killed. I do love those little communication. Yeah, they're awesome, aren't they? Do you remember that Anson Mount Christopher Pike talks about the flip thing? Like when they see that, yeah, the flip thing. That's the best thing. That's the best beer. When Boimless doesn't flip. Oh, here we go. It's all about to happen. Okay, so we are going to move into the set for this part. Bloody cave already. Yeah, yeah. So it's going to be dark so that we can go away from this expensive location into the Paramount studios and here we go. Oh, what the hell was going on here with these great things coming out of the floor? I know, thrusting out of the floor. So, the Jodie Witterkatardist. Sorry there we go. No, wow, no. not too dissimilar. Oh, dear. Oh, that's all wobbling a bit, aren't they, as they come out? So it is, it does end up looking like a ribcage, and it looks like they're sort of trapped in this cage, and then later on apparently they were all going to turn into rock monsters and attack people. Have you seen the roster? No, no, no, it was supposed to be an army, but they only built one and then decided, no, this isn't working. Let's not do it. So these hands. Do you know what I mean? And that that's weird. Like, that's the sort of thing that you want, I think, in Star Trek. If you're going to meet God, it's going to be weird and strange. You know, if they all turn into rock monsters and we're after him that would actually add to the actual... Yeah. Yeah. And have a few more of them down there that actually have to escape them and deal with them. But again, what has to happen is that the gym has to be left alone because we had that earlier line about how I'm going to die alone. And of course, what happens is his friends who love him, uh, you know, making sure that he gets rescued, which is what always happens. We're not supposed to believe Nathan, he was going to die at the hands of some ghastly Jabelite rock monster, are we? Well, no. But don't we have god firing beams at him or something like later appearing? Look, it's all part of the story. Thanks, William. I mean, I will say, for 15 minutes of just watching people react to nothing. Those things coming out of the ground. Word genuinely dynamic. No, he's God. He's George Murdoch. See, that looks great. And there's a beam. Everything. looks expensive. I wouldn't go that far. No, it doesn't look expensive. It looks incredibly cheap. More reactions. War reaction. Jesus Christ. We're just changing the light every time. You need to react. It's a great special effect, react. My God. one voice Many faces. Shazam. What the heck? Klingon. It's gods of all kinds, and now there's George Murdoch, who is our sort of god with a big beard and stuff. Well, I'm disappointed. I don't know about you boys, but I'm a bit disappointed if that's good. If that's gone? Yeah, yeah. You know what, come out. If it's Doctor Who to be wrestle on. Imagine if he popped out now. This is the goo of Rosalond. More exciting. It might liven it up, yeah. Yeah, this, the journey you undertook to reach me could not have been an easy one. It was very... fucking easy. We just stood around for 15 minutes. You just fine me. The first. Yeah. And so clearly the barrier is there to keep him in, right? Because he's some evil entity that's been deliberately imprisoned here in the centre of the galaxy, and the barrier has been put around to keep him in. He's... Like the lion from... The wizardly lion. He said, how did you breach the barrier? Well, we just came through it. Very slowly. But this, I would like to ask a question. Why do you want to shut? Yeah, why is God need a starship? I like that. God, need with a starship. Yeah perfect. But he's repeating it. And this is the moment where he realises it's obviously not God. I'm asking a question. Yeah. I mean, even why did you write this script? Even D thinks it's God at this point, doesn't he? Because you say you don't ask the Almighty for his ID, you know? But I think you should. I do. It's very important. I seek proof. You don't ask the Almighty for his ID. It's such a good point. Here's the proof. And then that's beams out of his eyes. Oh, and everybody can see it still. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That camera's doing a great job. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a drone Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Why is Gart angry? Well, God's always kind of angry though, isn't he? I mean, that's kind of the thing. But again, is this critiquing religion? I mean, you have a God who is depicted as smiting people and punishing people and, you know, God, but he's... Is it? No, it's clearly not God. But that was what we were looking for. And then we find this, and we discover that this isn't God. It looks like God, but it's not God. And D now realises it too, you know. I doubt any god who inflicts pain for his own pleasure. I mean, I don't, but you do you, McCoy. But Cybok doesn't either. Now, Cybok knows that it's not God. And I love. I absolutely love the resolution where Cybot goes in there and asks God, like what his pain is, because God is wanting to harm people. against God there. is such a bad effect. That is the Ferengi on the screen in the last Alpha is bad. That is. But I mean, you know, the shot of the god's eye view shot of Cybok is pretty great, I think. And then when Cybog becomes God here, I think that's pretty awesome too. And so he goes in and his face is himself. It looks unusual. Yeah. Yeah, and you want that. I think you want that in Star Trek. And again, his performance as God is so different. to his performance as Cyborg. Oh yeah, he's a good actor. Yeah. Yeah, now he looks demonic, but yeah, doesn't he? Again, though, is this big enough? I mean, I know we're meeting God. That's a big ending. It still doesn't. I mean, this could be a TNG episode. as presented. I think it would be a fairly uneventful TNG episode actually as well. Like, I don't think there's quite enough here to sustain because if you've got another 25 episodes to go, you can do more character staff. Is that your one line return to action? Like an uneventful team. You wanting a whole season where they, they're trying, they're looking for God and the ship's captured and then, no, I think this could get this out of the way in 40 minutes and then do a funny tag at the end and, yeah, you know, say shut up data and then get on to another adventure. But that, I love this, where he goes to hold God and asks God to share his pain. Why is God torturing people? Why does God want to harm everyone? You know, it's because he, like everyone, has a secret pain and Cybok wants to, that's what how Cybok saves us from him. I think it's really good. Yeah, no, I do think that's good. Rottenberry was pissed, wasn't he? Because this basically was a story he wanted to tell. 10 years before this, and by all accounts, Shatner was with him when he recounted the plot that he wanted to tell. And Shatner even admitted, like, yeah, maybe some of it seeped down into one. I can't share that. Oh of course. Oh, did you watch those polystyrene boulders fall then? Well, I think we're gonna, there's a rock monster's going to appear. This is where the rock monster would have... I didn't see it. No, no, no, but we just... We're just going with the smoke and that, like, you know, there's something coming from the... underneath. Meanwhile. And so there was going to be a longer sequence because obviously we separate them because the transporter isn't working. And Jim has them beam up and now he's on his own. And because we've already said at the beginning of the episode he's going to die on his own, do you know what I mean? Like that's what we're meant to think of except that we've all been driven insensible by, you know, 45 minutes of intervening reaction shots and so we've probably forgotten. But there was going to be a longer sequence where God was pursuing Kirk on the surface of the planet, but the special effects were so lamentably bad that they just had to cut it all. I mean, I think a bit of action with rock monsters might help. The climax of this. Yeah, did you see the photo? No, no, no, they're terrible. If they could have done it. I mean, it might have given it a bit of punch at the end. Yeah. Partial power. Yep. can only take 2 of you. That, even that McCoy's saying now just a damn minute was so perfect. Like, so great. Meanwhile, we can't be back because the Klingons have arrived. And you notice how all those elements from the Enterprise D's transporter room are there? Yeah, definitely is D, isn't it? Yeah. We're slightly better lighting. We're slightly with movie lighting, right? Yeah. Are they doing the Klingon music over there? I can't remember. I can't remember. Just the climax of this plot where he makes his son apologise. It's just heaven. It's not his son though, is it? It's his... I thought it was his son. No, no, it's he calls him you're his superior officer or something. I can't I can't remember. No, I didn't think he was a son. No, I don't think it's his son. It's his office. He just treats some... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well that's it because he's a kid. Do you know what I mean? Like he's a he's a kid. It's just a look on Kirk's face when he says, I apologise. Yeah, it's great, isn't it? It's really good. And in fact, I kind of like this because all of this stuff happens like, like, Spock goes over and speaks to Cord or Kempeck or whatever his name is Cord, Cord, the drunk Klingon. Card cord, what the hell? And then arranges all of this, but we don't get to see it. Yeah? We get up to this point and then it cuts... Yeah, now we cut away. so we don't see what's planned. It's terrible. That ship looks like it's been slowly. So, now it's hell. It was a lovely pink planet before, but now it's hell because God's evil. So it was Lakersia. Are you sure this wasn't where the rock monsters were in it? This looks like an ideal, occasionally. God pursuing him. God. Kirk versus God. Yeah, God doesn't stand a chance. Oh, shit, that's responsible for this movie. That looks terrible. That doesn't... That's a bad shot. I mean, it's a good... like it's a... There goes God. Shoot God. Oh, see you later, God. It's been fun. Well, sort of. And now it's training it on Kirk, who is expecting to die. And I actually kind of like, too, that they're not too bad where he beams out. That's a bit better. That is okay. Although it's a much cheaper. They have a much cheaper teleport on the Kleon ship. Do they? Well, it's cheaper looking. They haven't spent quite so much money on it because they just borrowed the one from the enterprise D, obviously, which gets used every week. There really is a staggering lack of action in this movie, isn't there? Compared to all the other Star Trek movies. It's amazing. Like 1st contact we did last time, Nathan, was basically one hour and a half long action set piece. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Junior officer. something to say. I apologise. Sorry, dad. Yeah, look at her. But it does resolve the, you know, the anger about the Klingons which is still there, remember, at the beginning of the next film um, because, um, you know, if they're the way that they kill his son. But in some way, the Klingons help solve the problem, which is nice, and our new gunner, and of course, our new gunner was Spock who's here to kill God. It would have been Sulu. But it has to be Spock. Of course it does. Because, of course, it has to be Spock. I love this so much. I wish they'd hugged anyway. But the line is so great. not in front of the Klingon. That's wonderful. Yeah, see, I thought I was going to die. That's lovely. You were never alone. That was lovely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And look at them staring into each other's eyes. This is the real love story, isn't it? the original story. You can throw as many women at him as you want. No. Well that's it. There's that thing at the beginning where they say we didn't have family. Oh my god, it's so terrible. It looks so cheap. I don't know why, but the special effects when I watched our says on my big telly didn't look anywhere near as bad as they do when I'm up close to them here on this water. We nip. That was well timed. Wait for it. young guys are coming in. Hang on, we're going to get some payoff to... Oh, this found love. He's found love with that hot Romulan. Oh here they go. Yeah, yeah. Oh, please. George. George. You're not fooling anyone. wonderful muscles. Yeah, she's got big arms, doesn't she? She's awesome. Look at her. I bet a trivia just jumped up on my screen there that Kneg only did 8 days of this movie. He only shot 8 days of this movie. Wow, it was only in about 5 scenes, let's be honest. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's more than Gates McFadden does in some opinion. that's true. Getting upstaged by the best role. How did you notice that, sold? Yeah. She does get short change. Yeah, she does. It's not fair. Well, no, then she starts acting and then, you know, yeah. No, she gets her boobs get to firm up in one of the films. Look, she does get season 3 of Picard. Yeah, that's true. She's awesome. She does look magnificent in season three of Picard, doesn't she? She's amazing. This, I've lost a brother and then I got him back. Which I think is really very sweet. I think that's great We're spending a bit of time with his lost brother, aren't we? And Stranger New Wells at the moment. Yes, but so yes, he's forgotten about George, can I... Can I say that Leonard Nemoy actually looks better there? Like his makeup is so much better than earlier in the film. Yeah. And he still looks so old. But look at them. Look how warm they are and now back. Oh, sorry, Tom. When he started, like, I punched the air when he started playing row, row, row, your boat. And it was wonderful. Yeah. I question it and questioning everything. I mean, I'm glad we got 6 and this wasn't how they went out in the movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, look, look, it's a nice moment. But that's right. If this is, you know, the final thing, and it isn't, um, it's just those three. And it's the last time, I think, maybe we get that dealt with in you know, to such a degree, because... 6 is a functional film where things happen. And, you know, like, whereas here, basically all we have is this this trio. And then it becomes a bar. we take away from this, then I think it's deserves nearly. Yeah, yeah. Yes, there we go. We pull back and that's our film. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily. Life is but a dream. Well, somehow that seemed even slower watching it this time. It was amazing. No, it's because we had to talk all the way through it. We had to keep going. It's a lot easier when there's a plot. It's a net. Yes. things to comment on. Captain Klar. Captain Claw. Hot... John, there he is. See, John. Oh, Cubans. Oh, Harvey Bennett, you were correct. Yeah, Melanie Shatner.. Yep, yep. Nope, I do my research. and it took a lot of people to make this. You know, how you watch the credits of some films, and they say special effects, and they list all the different people that have worked on it. I don't think there's going to be very long lists. Yeah. They're now going under an alien. Look, I think I've come away from that with a new appreciation for the cock. That's for the Spock. I'm going to cut that. No, keep it in. Coy dynamic. Yeah, yeah. And for all the little character bits with them. But it just, the story just doesn't... You just want more from it. You want more action, you want more jeopardy. those nice moments with them exploring their pain or whatever should have been brought into this movie and dealt with God, like that should have come to something with that. And it just, it's just too laboured. Yeah, yeah. And I think just like the twist. Oh, guess what? It's not God, he's evil. Do you know what I mean? Like that's like... Well, of course it's going to not be God. But let's have some challenges to get there and then bit more than like 5 seconds of conversation to work that out. Yeah, I think you're right. Before I watched it this week. I hadn't seen it for such a long time and I really did come away from watching it on my own. Like, wow, that was a string of really lovely moments, but now actually talking about this for 2 hours as a movie, as a movie, it just pans, doesn't it? There's no spectacle. There's no pace. There's no set pieces to make you go, wow, there's $30000000 on the screen, you know? There's a lot of set pieces like going up the lift shaft. You who are doing her dance. Like, there's, there is, and there's a lot of nice stuff, but I think once it gets to God or the barrier bit, it just begins to like, all that lovely stuff up to that point is lovely stuff. But then it just doesn't come together at that and that you feel let down. Yeah, I mean, my experience was also that why hasn't this film started yet? Like I'm an hour in and I don't know where we're going. And when you think of the really, really strong hooks that things like one and 4 and 2 and like even three, like they're very, very clearly going to be about something. There's someone who once said that a film, if you're in a film then you're about to experience the worst day of your life. Do you know what I mean? Because a film is about a big giant world changing event. One of the reasons for that people don't rate insurrection is that it's like a, you know, late TNG TV is like the worst day of your life. But this, just nothing very much happens here. Just there's not enough incident and we don't know what this is about. You know, it's the film about the one where they find God. You know, you know, how I say the cold open, the end of the cold open is where you find out what an episode's about. Here the cold open is Johan and Cybok. And that sort of tells us something, but we don't know what any of that means. And so it's not a sufficient hawk. No, it needs to be somebody trying to get through the Great Barrier and failing to get through there and Cybuck was something witnessing this or something like that. Just to say that's our hook in and that's where we're going. where we're going. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's in no way the best movie that we've covered on this podcast because I think that is four, which has energy and charm and humour running through it and it's just an amazing watch. I don't think it's the worst we've done though. I think generations is the worst movie than this. I mean, it's a better movie in terms of spectacle, but I mean, even the character moment is bombing generations, you know, and you've got data doing that dreadful humour throughout, which is irritating as hell. There's a bit on the boat at the start, which we cringed our way through. Like, at least this does have the charm of the original cast and funny moments. I agree with you. I think that that's the strength of it. Funny moments, charm of the original cast and a likeable villain. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I guess that's right. I mean, in all sorts of technical ways, generations is a vastly better film than this. But it is a bit charmless, isn't it? And it's, you know, I complained about the people of Veridian for the invisible people of Veridian 4, who I've never met and I don't care about at all. And that's the entire thing. You know, complain about Olivia Hack. I mean, comparing patrols, we watched generations and that dismal moment where they murder Picard's family for no reason whatsoever. Whereas here, the moment where you see McCoy assists the suicide of his dad. That was really moving. Yeah. Yeah, no, I really disliked that in generation. They just get rid of his family in one swoop. Yeah, just to make Patrick Stewart cry for five minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It just seems unpleasant and it makes watching family a bit less pleasant, I think. But I just like that in movies where they obviously are in family and they survive things there. But, you know, whether you're the little girl in aliens and then she's killed off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, that's the thing that I really dislike. They survive a movie and then the sequel kills them off. Yeah, yeah. So are we, are we learning then that if the even numbered movies are pretty, and the odd number of movies are pretty terrible? There are still degrees of terrible. Yeah, and this is in no way than the deer of the Star Trek movies. I mean, I couldn't say that just for the bit with Ahura naked. Well, I mean, I mean, if you're going with odd numbers, you know search for Spock is not there. It's definitely better than this. Oh, yeah. And then what generations is is seven. So, you know, that's, well, not the best. And then you've got insurrection, which you obviously don't like. Well, 1st contact that insurrection, remember? But in odd number movies. The odd number movies. But insurrection, I quite like I don't dislike it. I quite like most of it except for when they climb up the mountain and the resolution, which I think falls to pieces. But then the one that breaks, it breaks the rule is, of course nemesis. which is the worst thing ever. so bad. I don't think this movie is even as I think this is a better watch than one. I mean, I gave up on one, 2 thirds of the way through because just nothing happened. I know it's visually spectacular, but in terms of narrative, This is a faster movie than that. And I've never seen all of one. I've fallen asleep full time. I mean, I don't mind one. And in context, I went and saw it at the cinema, but it was the 1st Star Trek I ever saw, so I didn't see it with the right context. But I can understand the instinct. After these guys have been away, their show gets cancelled prematurely. They've been away for a really long time. It's not like generations where it's just we move straight from shooting all good things into shooting generations. Like we've been given the chance to miss all these people. And then seeing them back on the big screen with a big budget with something that looks incredibly impressive with a scale and all of that sort of thing. Like, it's amazing in context, I think. But it is a misfire and they obviously decide to... No, that's true. It's a very serious, mate. Are they looking for God in that one as well? A bit. I think that there's a deliberate kind of attempt to echo that. What with, you know, Voyager 2 with Klar, Captain Clarb, destroying Voyager 2, I think it is very much kind of doing a nod at the motionless picture, for sure. Well, I think it's a pretty ridiculous, idiotic, slow paced movie but I can't say I didn't have fun with it. I think that's fair. All right, it's the end of the episode and it is time for us to work out where we're going next. Todd is here with us, sitting next to me in front of the computer and we have the randomiser open in front of us. Todd, can you tell me what series we're going to be watching next time and why? We're going with Deep Space Nine. Is that sucking up to Joe? Oh, that's you.. Because it is my favourite Star Trek series. Yeah, I was tempted to give you Voyager or Enterprise because I didn't get movie I wanted, but I thought, no, I really want something whenever this goes out, hopefully to start end the year or start the new year off. Unless we get a bad episode, which... I'll be laughing my head off. We can roll again. Well, it's only if it's really season one. Okay, only Nathan is perverse enough to choose Enterprise on a regular basis, you know? No, I couldn't do that to you. I just couldn't. I'll have to do it next. All right. Fingers crossed for a banger. Do I push this button? Yep. Okay. Read it out. It's your random Star Trek Deep Season 9 episode is The Reckoning season six, episode 21. Is that terrible? What's the reckoning? It's the one where, you know, where Jake and Kira on the promenade? Oh, right versus... Prophet. Profit, yeah. Infiring beams in each other? Boring series of beams coming out of each other. That was the worst episode ever. Okay, do it again. Okay, I'll go with that. Oh, come on, Todd. You only get to do it once. I keep rolling. I know I've got to keep... I think it has to be this. What? What? It's the way of the weird. It's the way of the home. Finally, we're watching a movie. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Well, you know what? It was meant to be. I think it was. My favourite series. And although I didn't get to do my favourite movie, this is one of my favourite episodes of ever. That's so great. Well, that is pretty good. You're either last or desperately searching for a good tailor. Oh my god, I love it so much. Oh, brilliant, well done. And you get to watch double episode then. Yeah, it's cool. Awesome. You've been listening to Entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford Nathan Bottomley and special guest star Todd Bealby. We're online at untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts. Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Sisrin and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb. This episode was recorded on the 15th of December 2025 and released on the 19th of December. We'll see you next time for Star Trek Deep Space 9, The Way of the Warrior. I think there's more action in Way of the Warrior than there is in Star Trek 5, you know. Do you know, you and I have watched Way of the Warrior together once before, and I think that I concluded that there was actually far less action. There's action sequences that I've done extremely well and they'd really use their budget. But also, please compare and contrast to what else was coming out in the 90s from Star Trek. There's plenty of action. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. That is true. It's also that wonderful period where they were still using models before they go all CGI on DS9. So they've still got the model spaceships in, but it's a lot of it's enhanced with CGIFX. So it's really, it's that sort of midway ground. And, you know, this is like the opening episode of this season Voyager would have had its opening episode of season two. Ah yes, okay. Which would have been what? Terrible. Yeah, terrible because it peters out. Remember, there's a whole bunch of episodes had they hold over from season one and so season one doesn't even end properly. Like it makes no sense. But to me, this is where the show was building too. Yeah. It's just so witty, isn't it? I find this hand-to-hand come back, really quite distasteful. I suppose you prefer the simplicity of an interrogation chamber. You have to admit, it's much more civilised. It's so gross. Enjoy, gentlemen. Thank you so much. What a gift. Thank you, what a gift. Well done. Thank you. That feels like Christmas to me now. Thanks, Todd. Yeah, that was really good. I'm really happy about that. I can't believe that came up because like I was... Oh, boy.