WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 23:24:55

1
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Hey, Joe. Hi.

2
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So, we are back after weeks and weeks of Nighty Star Trek.

3
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We're back nearly in the present day, just about exactly 2 years ago.

4
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This episode airs for the 1st time after a 6 week break.

5
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It's the 1st episode of the 2nd half of Discovery Series 4 and it's called All In. coming straight after the end of the 1st half of the season of season four, which we've also done an episode of Commentary on.

6
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That's right.

7
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That was but to connect.

8
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We are avoiding the very beginning and the very end of season four.

9
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The end, which I want to reach, because you reliably inform me, is fantastic.

10
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Yeah it is pretty good.

11
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Can I say something immediately arresting to you?

12
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Oh, go on.

13
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I think for the 1st time since starting, I'm tired of Star Trek Project, I am in complete accord with Jammer.

14
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Now, to be fair, Gemma gave this one star less than he gave Bem.

15
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I know that is your gauge.

16
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Refuse QED, really.

17
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He gives us 2 of four, which means he's sort of middling.

18
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And I think that's a fair marking for this because I did think this was a perfectly amiable hour of television. but compared to the highs I've seen of Discovery elsewhere.

19
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It isn't doing anything too revolutionary.

20
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I think what its role is.

21
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I think what it does is, but to connect ends with that kind of catastrophic break between Michael and book, because they're on opposite sides of a important pressing political question, which is, you know, we have this DMA, this big thing that's hoovering up planets and has already destroyed books, homeworld, do we try and make 1st contact with it or do we send a bomb through the DMA and try and warm them off.

22
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And she, she is absolutely committed to the ideals of the Federation, because she's Michael and this is the show, but books, decision is also completely understandable, given what he's been going through all season.

23
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But the thing is that we had that decision made and we saw that decision being made when he left.

24
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And so we never saw him make that decision.

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We knew that he was going to, we thought he was going to probably go off with Taka and do what the Federation and its allies had decided not to do.

26
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But we never saw it happen.

27
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And so at the time, the thing that got me excited about the prospect of this episode, it's an episode that takes the 2 of them, we thought we weren't going to see them, and it takes the 2 of them and it puts them on opposite sides for poker table.

28
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And so we see them actually going through this, we see their relationship and how it works, and we get to see that being made in a much more character context than a political context.

29
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And so I kind of like that.

30
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This is the central relationship of the show.

31
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It's pretty important, I think.

32
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And I think that, you know, the idea that we were, we just weren't going to see book again, and Michael and book weren't ever going to be able to talk about what had happened until the finale or even later than that.

33
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I didn't think that was satisfactory.

34
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So I was kind of glad of that.

35
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And I think this is a gentle run-up to the 2nd half of the season.

36
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I thought that was hilarious, how, you know, the cliffhanger to the last episode was, oh, going, oh, shit, as he's gone off, you know, we're never going to see him.

37
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It's a good cliffhanger.

38
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And then we spend 10 minutes at the start of this with them all going, right, you've got to go and find them.

39
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You got to stop him.

40
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And then the next team, she's found him.

41
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Okay, okay.

42
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That's right.

43
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She is the most competent woman in all of Starfleet.

44
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I telling you.

45
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She gets himself.

46
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And to be fair, Booker knows that she's going to find him.

47
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He absolutely knows that she knows where he is, he just thinks that Starfleet's going to stop her from doing it.

48
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But this is not about the search for Booker.

49
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This is about putting them together and getting the decision made again.

50
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And so at the end of the episode.

51
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The decision is definitely made.

52
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It's the same decision that we made 1st time, but we got to see it happen in a more interpersonal kind of context.

53
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What it is, though, is the cliffhanger did make you think that it was about going after Booker and it wasn't.

54
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It made a big deal out of him going and then she just finds him.

55
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And I don't know, it just felt a bit underwhelming.

56
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And I get what you're saying.

57
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It's not the cliffhanger is about his decision to go his separate ways from her and make his own choice.

58
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It just felt weird, those 2 things things in succession like that.

59
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You've just told me everything this episode does well.

60
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What I think it does less well is it takes far too long to get to the point.

61
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So the, yeah, we have that great moment around the poker table and it is a great moment, but that's about the 40 minute mark of this episode.

62
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And the rest of the time we're kind of marking time going to sort of the seedier locations of the galaxy.

63
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And I quite like that.

64
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But then that leads into my other problem is this kind of lacks the sparkle and the energy that I was expecting from that kind of location, which is like this casino in this, well, in in the middle of a hologramaphic dragon's mouth or something.

65
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The entrance to it is spectacular and then everything else is sort of a lot of drab dark rooms with everyone sitting around sort of throwing chips on the table.

66
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Yeah.

67
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Well, but you see, I think that the objection here is like saying it takes too long for image and the sand and shadows and symbols to do anything, that that 1st 45 minutes of that 2 parter is just us hanging around rehashing the character stuff that's happened in the lead up to it and in the series 6 Cliffhanger.

68
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And I think where you're more invested in the characters, you would find those scenes more interesting in themselves.

69
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The image in the sand is taking 3 character plots and playing the one after another.

70
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So it feels like it's got to be, it's exactly what but to connect it last time. when you had the computer plot, you had the stammets and culba plot and you had the...

71
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And so it felt like it goes by by a lick and you're learning a lot about the characters and in there, you add extraordinary scenes like that therapy scene for culba.

72
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. absolutely amazing.

73
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And, you know, as good as that scene around the poker table is here.

74
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It isn't a patch on the writing that was there in the previous episode.

75
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My other big issue with this is this is the 2nd episode this season now where I'm not seeing this crew working together in succession and I think they've really got something with the discovery crew at this and the glimpses I get.

76
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There's a sweet moment with Saru and Burnham near the beginning.

77
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There's a great scene between Culber and Stamet, somewhere in the middle.

78
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And then at the end, when they all come together, and, you know, it's like, here's the solve.

79
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The scam bit of knowledge I found in this episode to go towards the arc plot.

80
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Let's go, but they're all working together really, really well.

81
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And I just, I would like, and I'm reliably formed by you again, that there is more of that in the 2nd half of the season, which I'm pleased because it took them a long time for this crew to properly gel and reap rewards like this.

82
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So keeping them apart as much as they are, it seems a bit old.

83
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Well, I mean, remember, like everyone gets something to do in but to connect.

84
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Where's Tilly?

85
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So she's left at this point.

86
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What?

87
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They've taken up Tilly and Georgia.

88
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No wonder it's so bloody serious.

89
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Yeah, so Tilly was back, I think, she will be back. but she's not a regular and she leaves early in series four in an episode that we actually rolled.

90
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It's a very kind of standard sort of Star Trek story, which I think is really well done.

91
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It's a little bit like Galileo 7 only not crap.

92
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And she leaves at the end of that to join Starfleet Academy and sort of teach there.

93
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And obviously Shorjo is off making preparations for her long-awaited return in the section 31 film.

94
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But everyone's in that finale.

95
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And so this one has to concentrate on the central relationship of book and and Michael, and that's not, you know, the only thing there.

96
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I mean, they're not going to be together until the finale.

97
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So we are going to see them again and it will just be the crew.

98
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I do buy the relationship.

99
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I do think it's mature.

100
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I certainly think it's sexy because the 2 of them are absolutely gorgeous.

101
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Oh, beautiful.

102
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And they do have good chemistry.

103
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I said to you off my before we started that I've not really seen it apart from the beginning of season 3 and you tell me the start of season four.

104
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I don't really say I'm having a lot of fun together.

105
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So I don't know if it's an enjoyable relationship to watch.

106
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I believe it.

107
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Well, again, we destroyed his planet early in this season and so...

108
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It's got a creeping a lot of fun.

109
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

110
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

111
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There is a lovely episode in the 1st half of the season, which is all about Michael's concern for his grief and that realises that in a really kind of interesting science fiction way that's not dumb, which is kind of nice.

112
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Do you buy that if you're not invested in this relationship, you know, and some people might not be, that this episode would be a bit of a chore.

113
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

114
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Because the relationship is all character stuff.

115
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Like this episode is our go slow episode where we do character stuff.

116
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I think there's some comedy in there, particularly with the character of Hasmazaro, who I think is pretty successful.

117
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He was all right.

118
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Well, the best character, I thought, was the woman whose name I never remember, sits on the bridge normally, who gets up in the ring and starts kicking the shit out of people and I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

119
00:10:16.259 --> 00:10:17.399
So that's Joanne.

120
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No, I couldn't.

121
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She been in it since the 1st, you know, since she 1st got on Discovery.

122
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That's another big strength of discovery.

123
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See, I can't say nice things, is that these characters in series one but got a line and a shot in most episodes.

124
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Who's the other one with the one with the red hair?

125
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wonderful.

126
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Oh, Kayla, dead man.

127
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Oh, fabulous.

128
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Yeah, because they're good friends, aren't they, these two?

129
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

130
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And how in the late seasons, especially in 3 and four, they're suddenly being given a lot more to do in a lot more opportun- It almost like, right, you stuck around, and for that one shot, and sooner as one, we're going to reward you with some material. given a lot more to do, to be fair.

131
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They are given something to do, which is kind of nice, given that they started their job as basically scenery, I think, with their original role.

132
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. thought she was good.

133
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And I thought her conversation with Taka was good.

134
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I think you've done to me what I often do to you on entire Star Trek.

135
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And that is, you gave me unrealistic expectations going into this.

136
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I was expecting like a high energy, crazy quirky location.

137
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And what I actually got was a gentle character tale.

138
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Um, so maybe maybe I'm the problem.

139
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Maybe, you know, maybe my expectations are the problem here.

140
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But it wasn't unenjoyable.

141
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Yeah, the other thing too, is that we've done a series one episode in a series 2 episode of Discovery that we're a bit crap, because whenever you do discovery, it is part of an ongoing story, each season tells an ongoing story.

142
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And so we did a series one episode that was set in the mirror universe that was like the dullest episode of the season. boring.

143
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Which should have been great.

144
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Well, but because they have the sort of daytime soap opera structure of just moving everyone's plot on a little bit.

145
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And the thing that this series, I think, gets right, that series 4 gets right is that it does that and that's what the Hugh and Paul scene is for, I think, in this episode.

146
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It's what DS9 was doing in those last 10, isn't it?

147
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It is inching everything along.

148
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Whilst it's doing that, some episodes are going to have big moments like Butter Connected.

149
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Another episodes are, are going to be, I'd be quieter and sort of a less, less assuming than that.

150
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But this is an episode with a focus.

151
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Do you know what I mean?

152
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It is about the tour of the meeting at this casino and us discovering something a little bit more about the 10 C.

153
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And so the thing that this series does is while it does have ongoing plots and stuff, it still manages to give each episode a distinct arc and that's not something that the discoveries we've watched have always managed to do.

154
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So you know, you told me there's sort of this huge fracture in Star Trek fandom with discovery, and some people embraced it, but quite a few people have just sort of pushed away from it.

155
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I can imagine them watching this and going, what the hell is this?

156
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Fun with a casino and all these character scenes.

157
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And then at the end, when they're all together talking about the DMA, they're like, oh, thank God, you know.

158
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We're back into Star Trek again.

159
00:13:21.779 --> 00:13:35.340
Well, you see, I think I think when Discovery came on, I was ready for something really very new and was absolutely on board with all of the kind of changes they'd made because we'd had...

160
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Well, it's, at this point, it's, you know, things have got messy and it's been retooled halfway and all of that sort of thing.

161
00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:50.100
But I don't watch it all that often because, you know, I'm watching one Star Trek a week for this.

162
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And coming back to it, I always just sort of feel, yeah, I like this world and I like these people.

163
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And it was that scene that you mentioned with Saru and Michael and just how much this crew loves each other, I think, is really something.

164
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And so I was sort of, I was happy to be back.

165
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I mean, I will say to no, Star Trek fans, just before we press play. you know, this is an episode where they're chasing dilithium, which features poker and has an enormous space anomaly as the you know, the big threat of the season.

166
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So this is probably the most TNG is season of discoveries you're ever going to get.

167
00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:26.159
Or should we watch it?

168
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Yeah, I think we should.

169
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Alright.

170
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That's the thing about when I'm a bit unimpressed by it.

171
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Then I know I'll get to talk to you about it, so I'm going to have a much better experience of it, you know, the 2nd time.

172
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All right.

173
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I'll count it in.

174
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Five, four, three, two, one.

175
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And we're off.

176
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Oh, is this before or after the, you know, the great logo?

177
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It's before we get the logo.

178
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So look at book ship, how disassembles in space for literally no reason, except it's really cool.

179
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The difference between that and a matter of time is...

180
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I mean, look at this anomaly compared to a Mac.

181
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I know.

182
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Suddenly we're in a period where they can light things.

183
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Yeah, yeah.

184
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And they can, they sort of, you know, they, the techno babble can be illustrated with diagrams for our benefit.

185
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Not like the diagram that showed that the drilling sites and the volcanic eruptions happen at the same place.

186
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Could you love it as well?

187
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We'll get there.

188
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They get straight to a bloody point at the end where they're talking about the Techna babble and there's a few lines of Tech.

189
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And then she goes, oh, great, it's just like mining equipment.

190
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I was like, thank you.

191
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Yeah, there we go.

192
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We'll get down to my level.

193
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Thank you.

194
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We got a little shot of Gray and Adira, and they're gone, of course.

195
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They're not in it either.

196
00:15:48.179 --> 00:15:51.539
Why are they excised all the best characters?

197
00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:52.559
No, I think people leave.

198
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Do you know what I mean?

199
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And that's one of the things that happens with this show is it more than any other version of Star Trek has a really fluid cast.

200
00:15:59.159 --> 00:16:02.159
Do you think that's another objection people have?

201
00:16:02.220 --> 00:16:05.639
Like, you know, those people that like the one crew.

202
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But it was never realistic.

203
00:16:08.340 --> 00:16:09.539
Like, that was part of the problem.

204
00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:13.379
He's like, we're all just going to sit here, we will all be doing the same jobs for 7 years.

205
00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:16.320
Strange New Worlds has managed to keep it up pretty well in 2 seasons.

206
00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:19.080
Well, it's only had 20 episodes.

207
00:16:20.220 --> 00:16:22.379
I hope it has 200.

208
00:16:22.740 --> 00:16:24.840
Yeah, I do too.

209
00:16:24.899 --> 00:16:25.799
Look at this.

210
00:16:25.860 --> 00:16:28.139
I love Federation HQ.

211
00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:30.059
You don't even know what you're looking at.

212
00:16:30.539 --> 00:16:31.740
It's amazing out the wall.

213
00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:33.840
What's that?

214
00:16:33.899 --> 00:16:35.159
Where he is now.

215
00:16:35.220 --> 00:16:36.419
Is that a set, or is that?

216
00:16:36.419 --> 00:16:37.139
That's a set.

217
00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:38.460
I don't think that's the ball.

218
00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:40.860
That's what a curves an effect, yeah.

219
00:16:40.919 --> 00:16:41.879
It's amazing.

220
00:16:41.940 --> 00:16:42.720
It's beautiful.

221
00:16:42.779 --> 00:16:46.139
And, you know, they they use the hell out of it.

222
00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:47.279
And they reuse it for other things.

223
00:16:47.399 --> 00:16:50.460
The thing that makes me sad is, right, it's very impressive.

224
00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:55.139
In 20 years time, we'll be looking at this going, just like we do with 90 Star Trek.

225
00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:55.740
Looks so cheap.

226
00:16:55.799 --> 00:17:02.159
Look how cheap this looks. back before we used our VR sets, you know, to be immersively in Star Trek.

227
00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:16.740
So, I actually like the scene and the reason I like I partly like the scene because they are standing in front of a table that has no legs, but like no fucking reason except that we're in the 30s.

228
00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:18.960
And tables float in the air now.

229
00:17:19.019 --> 00:17:24.059
It can't have little jets coming out underneath, little puffs of steam.

230
00:17:24.059 --> 00:17:25.680
No, no, that's not how it works.

231
00:17:25.740 --> 00:17:27.900
It just stays there.

232
00:17:27.960 --> 00:17:40.380
So, but I like that she actually gets to say what we were saying, which is like, you, you're a bit crap because it's your boyfriend who's gone off to kind of destroy, you know, your plans.

233
00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:42.180
How can you not have known about?

234
00:17:42.299 --> 00:17:44.400
And so they're both getting a dressing down here.

235
00:17:44.579 --> 00:17:51.119
The way she works it is, you know, I can understand how in a professional capacity that you may not understand, you know, that he was going to go off and do this.

236
00:17:51.180 --> 00:17:53.880
But you, you had a personal relationship.

237
00:17:53.940 --> 00:17:55.799
You were banging him, for God's sake.

238
00:17:55.859 --> 00:17:56.519
How did you not know?

239
00:17:56.759 --> 00:17:57.119
yeah, yeah.

240
00:17:57.299 --> 00:17:59.099
I love her.

241
00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:03.180
I call her the Admiral Nachev of the new iteration of Star Trek.

242
00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:08.700
She has a sort of peculiar space way of delivering her dialogue. sort of very, very earnestly.

243
00:18:08.940 --> 00:18:18.539
Yeah, we we saw her last time, obviously, in that very speechy, but to connect, where they're making their political case, and she's a very political animal.

244
00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:22.380
We've seen her on the bridge of discovery butting heads with Michael and stuff before.

245
00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:23.460
Race is she?

246
00:18:23.579 --> 00:18:31.200
Oh, so she actually tells us that she is part Cardassian and part Bajoran.

247
00:18:31.259 --> 00:18:32.220
Oh my word.

248
00:18:32.460 --> 00:18:33.839
Yeah.

249
00:18:33.900 --> 00:18:35.759
Things have no dolphin.

250
00:18:35.819 --> 00:18:37.259
Well, that's it.

251
00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:39.660
But that's why she's president of the Federation.

252
00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:40.980
That why the Federation's important.

253
00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:43.140
She kind of embodies the Federation in a way.

254
00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:46.079
And so you can see it in the makeup.

255
00:18:46.140 --> 00:18:47.279
Do you know what though, right?

256
00:18:47.339 --> 00:18:48.960
Don't come with me here.

257
00:18:49.019 --> 00:18:55.619
I do wonder if to start off this new half season, we should start running and not with a 5 minute dialogue scene.

258
00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:58.859
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe, maybe.

259
00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:00.660
But I mean, yeah, yeah.

260
00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:03.000
We had our exciting last time on.

261
00:19:03.059 --> 00:19:12.960
But I think now they do the, as well as the previously on, they'll do the, you know, last week, when this happens, yeah, yeah, yeah.

262
00:19:13.019 --> 00:19:14.519
So there are...

263
00:19:14.519 --> 00:19:15.480
That wasn't 5 minutes, though.

264
00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:18.420
More than a little touch of 90s trick going on there.

265
00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:22.440
But, you know, like, I like Star Trek, because I like people showing around in rooms.

266
00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:37.559
Yeah, so he's stolen a spore drive, and so the ship has a spore drive, and it's that weird programmable matter, and I discovered something about him because he's from Riser, of course, Taka.

267
00:19:37.619 --> 00:19:41.700
And it always makes me think of his flat here is without seeing riser.

268
00:19:41.819 --> 00:19:42.779
Do you know?

269
00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:44.400
See the cup thing on his forehead?

270
00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:47.460
Vanessa Williams.

271
00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:48.420
Oh, no, she did, yeah.

272
00:19:48.779 --> 00:19:51.960
You should have a hawk on on him as well, you know.

273
00:19:52.019 --> 00:19:54.420
You seek Jamahara.

274
00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:57.059
In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing Jamaha right between this pair.

275
00:19:57.180 --> 00:19:58.559
Yeah, yeah, with pork.

276
00:19:58.619 --> 00:19:58.980
Why not?

277
00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:06.480
So why, sorry, you're going to have to catch me up because it's been a while since we've won a bunch of chicken.

278
00:20:06.539 --> 00:20:07.440
Why is Taka pissed?

279
00:20:07.500 --> 00:20:08.819
Was his planet destroyed as well?

280
00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:10.440
We don't know.

281
00:20:10.500 --> 00:20:12.420
And what is it?

282
00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:12.660
Yeah.

283
00:20:12.660 --> 00:20:23.579
We will find out in the 2nd half of the season in a series of flashbacks, but we will also kind of find out because Joanne talks to him.

284
00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:27.420
Joanne Oa Shakun talks to him when they're in the casino.

285
00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:31.259
Do you remember he says, can you stand somewhere else you're boring me now?

286
00:20:31.319 --> 00:20:33.059
And that's because she's right.

287
00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:38.220
She guesses what his problem is, we don't know, but Joanne works it out this episode.

288
00:20:38.279 --> 00:20:42.000
You just love somebody like that on the Enterprise in Nani's Trek.

289
00:20:42.059 --> 00:20:43.380
Will you stand over there, please?

290
00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:47.880
You are boring me. yeah I do like that about discovery.

291
00:20:47.940 --> 00:20:50.640
You have these very curt, very blunt characters like this.

292
00:20:50.700 --> 00:20:52.259
Yeah, yeah.

293
00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:56.039
Well, and this, so he's obnoxious.

294
00:20:56.099 --> 00:20:56.700
Do you know what I mean?

295
00:20:56.759 --> 00:21:01.019
Because he's the smartest man in the room and he was, he was working for Asira, I think.

296
00:21:01.079 --> 00:21:07.319
So we did see him as far back as the end of series 3 when we watched the, you know, that episode.

297
00:21:07.380 --> 00:21:15.420
Um, And so all this conversation seems to be about the fact that we don't have any isolenium.

298
00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:16.200
Is that what we're using?

299
00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:17.519
I think that's Al McGuffin.

300
00:21:17.579 --> 00:21:20.700
It's a sort of subgenre of dilithium, you know?

301
00:21:20.759 --> 00:21:22.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

302
00:21:22.500 --> 00:21:22.799
Yeah.

303
00:21:22.859 --> 00:21:25.440
And it is going to run the bomb.

304
00:21:25.500 --> 00:21:27.420
So we have to get the isolenium.

305
00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:32.160
And so he's sexy Admiral Vance. here to tell Michael.

306
00:21:32.220 --> 00:21:33.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

307
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:38.279
And this is the thing that book doesn't predict. look at the lighting here.

308
00:21:38.339 --> 00:21:39.839
It's so good.

309
00:21:39.900 --> 00:21:41.759
It is great.

310
00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:43.259
But it is still a lot of talk.

311
00:21:43.619 --> 00:21:45.779
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

312
00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:46.259
Yeah, yeah.

313
00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:55.859
But I'm just, remember, this is a show that gave us a 15 minute sequence between Burnham and that fabulous green woman at the end of series 2, fighting, non-starfighting.

314
00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:57.180
They can do it.

315
00:21:57.240 --> 00:21:58.680
Yeah, they'll be action.

316
00:21:58.740 --> 00:22:01.079
There'll be action, but that's not what this episode, it's for.

317
00:22:01.140 --> 00:22:01.799
In this?

318
00:22:01.799 --> 00:22:03.240
There's not any action in this, is there?

319
00:22:03.299 --> 00:22:04.380
Not really.

320
00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:08.339
I mean, there's there's Joanna wailing on that hot guy.

321
00:22:08.460 --> 00:22:10.380
Oh yeah, that is a great scene.

322
00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:13.380
I love, I love, I don't know why.

323
00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:14.940
I don't know what this means.

324
00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:18.119
I just love in fiction watching women beat up, man.

325
00:22:18.180 --> 00:22:18.660
It's great.

326
00:22:19.019 --> 00:22:23.400
Well, in fact, that's one of the things that I think this show does really well.

327
00:22:23.460 --> 00:22:36.240
And one of the most shocking moments, I think, for me is in season one where they're in the turbo lift and they're on the person that she's with in the turbo lift, a man.

328
00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:47.519
I think is someone that she served under or was served with on the Shenzhou, but someone that she recognises a nose immediately, even though he's the mirror universe counterpart, and she has to kill him.

329
00:22:47.579 --> 00:22:49.740
She has to fight him to the death in the turbo lift.

330
00:22:49.740 --> 00:22:51.240
And it's really visceral.

331
00:22:51.299 --> 00:22:56.039
And just the fact that having a man fight a woman like that would be absolutely unthinkable.

332
00:22:56.099 --> 00:23:02.940
Even in 90s Star Trek, the only example I can think of is um, 7 hitting, hitting the rock.

333
00:23:03.299 --> 00:23:06.779
Um, no, Kira beats up loads of men.

334
00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:07.980
She beats up Tamar.

335
00:23:08.039 --> 00:23:12.359
She, she beats up um, uh, Rossot.

336
00:23:12.420 --> 00:23:14.519
Do you remember in the last 10 episodes?

337
00:23:14.579 --> 00:23:15.480
Oh, yeah, yeah.

338
00:23:15.539 --> 00:23:21.359
But it's never quite as visceral and bloody as this version.

339
00:23:21.420 --> 00:23:28.140
Just go the other way, though, as well, because my most shocking moment in series one is where that dreadful Tory from Battlestar Galactica got eaten.

340
00:23:28.200 --> 00:23:29.339
Do you remember?

341
00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:30.180
was so great.

342
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:32.099
I mean, she was a terrible character.

343
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:33.420
She deserved to be Ian.

344
00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:34.740
Yeah, she was awful.

345
00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:38.400
Everyone on discovery when we 1st arrived on discovery.

346
00:23:38.460 --> 00:23:40.079
Paul is an asshole.

347
00:23:40.140 --> 00:23:41.160
She's horrible.

348
00:23:41.220 --> 00:23:43.740
Like, locker is kind of a weirdo.

349
00:23:43.859 --> 00:23:49.500
It's, uh, it's a horrible place. can I make a point once again about the talkiness?

350
00:23:49.500 --> 00:23:53.819
I've got a point here, though, is that now I can't hear the dialogue, yeah?

351
00:23:53.880 --> 00:23:59.640
All I'm seeing visually is a lot of people standing around...

352
00:24:00.900 --> 00:24:02.519
Yeah, that is 90s trek.

353
00:24:02.579 --> 00:24:05.579
I mean, that is what we've been doing for the last few weeks.

354
00:24:05.640 --> 00:24:07.259
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

355
00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:07.920
Yeah.

356
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:08.460
Yeah.

357
00:24:08.519 --> 00:24:13.859
And actually, talking about, you know, the very violent moments in series one.

358
00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:20.640
I prefer this version of discovery before I want to caveat that, but it's sort of, it's lost that age, hasn't it?

359
00:24:20.700 --> 00:24:21.000
A little bit.

360
00:24:21.059 --> 00:24:21.779
I agree.

361
00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:22.500
Yeah.

362
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:23.400
Yeah.

363
00:24:23.460 --> 00:24:32.519
I liked, I, I was unhappy with some of the decisions that they walked back at the beginning of series 2 and they were the swearing.

364
00:24:32.579 --> 00:24:36.480
I like the swearing on Star Trek because it makes them seem less like space people.

365
00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:46.980
And I liked the gore a bit more because it was a little bit more visceral and moved away from the daytime TV thing. special occasions now, don't they?

366
00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:48.960
Like the end of last episode.

367
00:24:49.019 --> 00:24:51.900
There was one last fuck as well, I swear, in Picard.

368
00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:54.180
Oh, picant?

369
00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:54.599
Yeah.

370
00:24:54.660 --> 00:24:55.259
Do you remember?

371
00:24:55.319 --> 00:25:00.359
Yeah, yeah, they gave him to, he got the chance to say fuckers Picard once just before.

372
00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:04.019
Patrick was like, please, just let me do it one time.

373
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:05.700
Can I just?

374
00:25:06.839 --> 00:25:09.480
These titles and this music.

375
00:25:09.480 --> 00:25:10.859
Holy crap.

376
00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:14.339
And the closing music this week was really good as well.

377
00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:17.700
They do different versions of the theme.

378
00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:18.660
Here we go.

379
00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:23.339
Here's another scene, we're standing around, but it is illustrated.

380
00:25:23.400 --> 00:25:24.660
It is, yes.

381
00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:28.079
And it is our crew.

382
00:25:28.140 --> 00:25:31.140
It's Stamitz, Saru, and Burnham, who I really like at this point.

383
00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:35.400
It did take me a long time to come around, but I do really like it.

384
00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:36.480
Oh, Stamitz was horrible.

385
00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:38.220
No, no, no, no.

386
00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:39.779
Oh, I love it.

387
00:25:39.779 --> 00:25:41.279
I always love Savage, in fact.

388
00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:43.559
The more of a prick is, the more I like it.

389
00:25:44.279 --> 00:25:55.380
But there's a scene coming up where, you know, the 2 of them where Michael and Saru are just together and he says, you know, make sure you're okay.

390
00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:56.880
He goes above everything.

391
00:25:56.940 --> 00:25:57.720
Yes.

392
00:25:57.720 --> 00:25:58.799
Be careful.

393
00:25:59.099 --> 00:26:00.420
Yeah.

394
00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:01.559
He's so good.

395
00:26:01.559 --> 00:26:03.660
He should have stayed as captain.

396
00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:06.839
I think he's the best captain in Star Trek history.

397
00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:07.980
Because he's not...

398
00:26:07.980 --> 00:26:08.880
He didn't have long, did he?

399
00:26:08.940 --> 00:26:12.420
No, he only had that year instead of acting captain.

400
00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:17.160
And obviously, if Michael's the main character, you kind of have to make her the captain, I guess.

401
00:26:17.220 --> 00:26:23.400
I think we've hit on something there, you know, because that's another thing that's sort of been fluidic about this show is who's in charge.

402
00:26:23.460 --> 00:26:38.220
I think that might be one of the central issues with that corner of such a fantom that don't like this, is that they're so, they're so built around the 90s trek model of that's our crew and it should be Stanley episodes and all that.

403
00:26:38.279 --> 00:26:40.380
And just don't obey none of those rules at all.

404
00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:49.019
Even compared to even compared to the other Kurtzman shows, though, which generally stick to the main characters.

405
00:26:49.079 --> 00:26:51.420
This is something completely different.

406
00:26:51.720 --> 00:26:59.759
Well, characters move in and out of the show all the time and and...

407
00:26:59.880 --> 00:27:00.180
Yeah.

408
00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:02.579
Well, when it started, well, it's the one that's experimental.

409
00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:04.019
It's the one that's trying something.

410
00:27:04.019 --> 00:27:05.640
DS9 encouragement, isn't it?

411
00:27:05.700 --> 00:27:06.779
Yeah, yeah.

412
00:27:07.019 --> 00:27:11.759
Strange New Worlds is brilliant and often better than this.

413
00:27:11.819 --> 00:27:15.180
But it's not more, it's not...

414
00:27:15.180 --> 00:27:18.000
It's ambitious. experimental well.

415
00:27:18.180 --> 00:27:22.500
It's done the crossover and it did the musical and it's doing the gone.

416
00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:24.240
It does things that are surprising.

417
00:27:24.299 --> 00:27:27.119
But those are things that he's good.

418
00:27:27.180 --> 00:27:29.640
I mean, in terms of Star Trek, this is the most ambitious.

419
00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:30.240
Yeah.

420
00:27:30.299 --> 00:27:32.220
Or maybe the most unusual.

421
00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:34.380
Yeah, yeah.

422
00:27:34.440 --> 00:27:45.420
But because it's kind of making its mistakes in, you know, like in public in all sorts of ways. some experience of that myself, you know.

423
00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:48.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

424
00:27:48.180 --> 00:27:51.720
So I'm looking forward to seeing what they finally bed down to.

425
00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:53.819
If it's what you're saying.

426
00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:56.220
We can see it's a long heist.

427
00:27:56.279 --> 00:27:58.500
You know, that would be amazing. they're going to be awesome.

428
00:27:58.559 --> 00:28:01.079
We've basically just got to have fun because it's the last year.

429
00:28:01.140 --> 00:28:01.680
This is great.

430
00:28:01.740 --> 00:28:02.700
Yeah, this is wonderful.

431
00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:03.900
It's so good.

432
00:28:04.019 --> 00:28:05.759
And look how good, isn't it?

433
00:28:05.819 --> 00:28:07.259
Yeah, yeah.

434
00:28:07.319 --> 00:28:10.019
Like, under that latex as well.

435
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:11.279
And look what they've done.

436
00:28:11.339 --> 00:28:15.240
The latex is much more expressive than the 90s latex.

437
00:28:15.299 --> 00:28:23.880
It gives him more scope to move his facial features than, say, Renee ever God.

438
00:28:23.940 --> 00:28:25.619
And he really uses it.

439
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:26.759
I think he's really good.

440
00:28:26.819 --> 00:28:33.180
I got very confused here because I'm currently watching neighbours as well, where one of the main characters is called Haz.

441
00:28:33.299 --> 00:28:42.000
So I thought Maz Canata, who runs the bar in The Force Awakens, was who I thought of, but has Mazaro here.

442
00:28:42.059 --> 00:28:44.460
It's called a karma barge.

443
00:28:44.519 --> 00:28:49.740
And I think the 2nd time we hear that, someone goes, oh, like karma barge, really?

444
00:28:49.799 --> 00:28:50.400
Like what?

445
00:28:50.460 --> 00:29:00.779
And listen to the way that has speaks all the way through this episode, it's magic. talks are so funny. those wrinkly looking Ferengis.

446
00:29:00.839 --> 00:29:02.940
What the hell are they done to the design?

447
00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:03.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

448
00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:07.740
Do you know, do you remember when we watched alliances in a series 2 Voyager?

449
00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:09.119
And they went to that bar.

450
00:29:09.240 --> 00:29:10.980
It was lit just like this.

451
00:29:11.099 --> 00:29:12.299
What sort of yellow lighting?

452
00:29:12.359 --> 00:29:12.779
Yeah.

453
00:29:12.779 --> 00:29:13.920
Yeah.

454
00:29:13.980 --> 00:29:17.579
It is very kind of standard, isn't it?

455
00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:18.960
It's obviously a bigger set.

456
00:29:19.019 --> 00:29:23.279
And I do, I like the, the, the, the, WWE fighter.

457
00:29:23.339 --> 00:29:24.180
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

458
00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:26.460
But yeah, I don't know.

459
00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:29.460
It could be a bit more exotic, I think, than it is.

460
00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:31.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

461
00:29:31.500 --> 00:29:34.500
It's it is a bit standard, I think.

462
00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:36.839
It's a bit starter-sy, right?

463
00:29:36.900 --> 00:29:38.640
This man in his latex.

464
00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:45.839
So yeah, this is like, this is, and I love that where he just opens his arms and the things appear.

465
00:29:45.900 --> 00:29:50.460
Like you can do magic now because it's the 32nd century and I love all of that.

466
00:29:50.519 --> 00:29:57.480
And I think this, like, this makeup has to stand up to high definition and pretty serious close-ups and stuff.

467
00:29:57.480 --> 00:29:59.339
And they're only using it the once.

468
00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:00.779
I think it is.

469
00:30:00.900 --> 00:30:02.220
There's been a lot of latex though.

470
00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:04.079
Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah.

471
00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:06.299
He looks a bit like the fella from in the pale moonlight.

472
00:30:06.359 --> 00:30:11.160
He looks a bit like a prey and mantis's head. the way it sort of goes out like that. don't know.

473
00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:24.059
Again, that weird thing where they say his filters were taken, book, books excuse for Taka's behaviour is that his filters were taken by cognition pirates, and you kind of go, what the fuck is that?

474
00:30:24.119 --> 00:30:26.220
That just sounds incredibly weird and awesome.

475
00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:28.920
Cognition pirates.

476
00:30:28.980 --> 00:30:32.039
Yeah, I know what a cognition pirate.

477
00:30:32.099 --> 00:30:34.799
That's a story now, I think, you know.

478
00:30:34.859 --> 00:30:46.740
Yeah, yeah, yeah. it's pretty great I like the fact that he says to book, you know, I'll give you what you want, but it's got to cost you a lot more than that.

479
00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:51.240
And then Michael comes along and he goes, I'll give you what you want, but it's going to cost you.

480
00:30:51.299 --> 00:30:54.119
You know he's literally every single person, isn't he?

481
00:30:54.180 --> 00:30:55.140
Yeah.

482
00:30:55.859 --> 00:31:03.420
And so now we have the old score to settle, which, um, so, oh, that's...

483
00:31:03.420 --> 00:31:04.019
This as well.

484
00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:05.880
That is so 90s straight.

485
00:31:05.940 --> 00:31:08.579
That's so TNG going into a bar and going, oh, yeah.

486
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:12.900
I've heard last time I've said it with you. yeah this guy might not.

487
00:31:13.019 --> 00:31:19.980
And so what it was, and it actually matters because it reminds us of what he's doing here.

488
00:31:20.039 --> 00:31:34.799
So, you remember we saw him and he had transworms in his, in his ship, way back at the beginning of series one and he was rescuing these sort of ugly worms and then bringing them to his planet Quajon to live in a sanctuary.

489
00:31:34.859 --> 00:31:41.579
And this guy was dealing those worms and and Booker beat the shit out of him and stole them, stole them back.

490
00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:43.079
And that's what the thing is.

491
00:31:43.140 --> 00:31:49.920
And remember that, that he was trying to save them when we 1st see him, he's saving animals in a sanctuary.

492
00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:52.079
And now, what does he want to do?

493
00:31:52.140 --> 00:31:54.900
He wants to prevent the DMA from killing any more people.

494
00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:56.160
Do you know what I mean?

495
00:31:56.220 --> 00:31:57.900
It's the same kind of thing.

496
00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:04.619
So it's a, see this jab a Brussel fly, and I'll scoot some green bread, and you can't say, wait, what?

497
00:32:04.740 --> 00:32:06.839
You know, like everything that he says.

498
00:32:06.900 --> 00:32:11.640
He says something about his, like, a Cardassian who's missing the cake or something.

499
00:32:11.700 --> 00:32:12.720
Like it's like, what?

500
00:32:12.839 --> 00:32:16.380
Those special effects shot of them go through this vortex.

501
00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:19.680
It looks like it's jumped straight out of the motion picture, doesn't it?

502
00:32:19.740 --> 00:32:21.720
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

503
00:32:21.779 --> 00:32:24.240
But it, it's so, but it looks like a, look.

504
00:32:24.299 --> 00:32:26.160
I mean how much more animated it is.

505
00:32:26.220 --> 00:32:31.440
Yeah, than those gentle things that go past the window in Star Trek, the Next Generation.

506
00:32:31.500 --> 00:32:33.480
Well, and we'd be bumping around a bit, wouldn't they?

507
00:32:33.539 --> 00:32:34.440
They be shaking the set.

508
00:32:34.500 --> 00:32:36.960
Yeah, that set is so stunning.

509
00:32:37.019 --> 00:32:40.140
Like, that's the great thing that midway through.

510
00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:42.119
They decide, screw it.

511
00:32:42.299 --> 00:32:47.519
We going to make the federation look completely different now and they really sell it.

512
00:32:47.579 --> 00:32:48.660
I mean, it looks so good.

513
00:32:48.779 --> 00:32:52.980
I like the why that, you know, all the sort of federation sets.

514
00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:57.660
It's a sort of clinical white, which then they light, interestingly.

515
00:32:58.380 --> 00:33:01.619
Because I think things got a bit, a bit dark words.

516
00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:03.240
Remember how gray they got in Enterprise.

517
00:33:03.299 --> 00:33:05.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

518
00:33:05.160 --> 00:33:09.900
But even the lighting's quite dim on the bridge of discovery as well.

519
00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:11.640
This shuttle going across the water.

520
00:33:11.700 --> 00:33:13.140
And you've got the...

521
00:33:13.140 --> 00:33:13.799
It doesn't look great.

522
00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:15.779
Dragging in the distance or whatever.

523
00:33:15.779 --> 00:33:17.279
Jumping out of that.

524
00:33:17.339 --> 00:33:19.140
I just thought, oh, that's the same monster.

525
00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:21.000
I'd forgotten there's a same monster, miss.

526
00:33:21.059 --> 00:33:21.420
What is it?

527
00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:23.519
I think that could be a murker, you know.

528
00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:27.960
And then the shuttle goes straight down the hologrammatic mouth.

529
00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:29.039
In its mouth.

530
00:33:30.420 --> 00:33:35.339
And you know, like, I'm being critical about how this looks.

531
00:33:35.400 --> 00:33:38.700
That is the most visually interesting thing, I think, in the whole episode.

532
00:33:38.819 --> 00:33:40.079
Yeah, it looks great.

533
00:33:40.200 --> 00:33:41.400
So good.

534
00:33:41.460 --> 00:33:53.039
But remember, she goes karma barge. you know, why is it so stupid, but we already kind of know that because we've heard Maz talk and just how sort of strange and weird he is.

535
00:33:53.099 --> 00:33:58.140
I think it's really funny how they put in sort of your stock Star Trek aliens into this casino.

536
00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:03.240
You have got an Andorian in there and a Ferengi, but they can't be asked to make up everybody.

537
00:34:03.299 --> 00:34:04.619
So some people are wearing cloaks.

538
00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:06.900
Some people have caught things over their mouth.

539
00:34:06.960 --> 00:34:07.920
They can't afford it.

540
00:34:08.039 --> 00:34:08.579
Yeah, that's right.

541
00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:09.059
That's right.

542
00:34:09.480 --> 00:34:12.420
We need to save some money for the rest of the season.

543
00:34:12.780 --> 00:34:16.199
I love how he greets her.

544
00:34:16.260 --> 00:34:18.059
So her nickname is right hook.

545
00:34:18.119 --> 00:34:22.920
He's glowworm, she's right hook. she does get to punch someone in the face later, which is pretty great.

546
00:34:22.980 --> 00:34:25.380
And when she's around the poker table.

547
00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:27.360
It's as fun as she has ever been.

548
00:34:27.420 --> 00:34:36.239
I like her when she pull her away from Starfleet a bit and all that sort of seriousness and just let her be a person doing things her own way.

549
00:34:36.300 --> 00:34:37.320
She's great fun.

550
00:34:37.380 --> 00:34:42.119
It was the curse of series 2 when they discovered that she could really act and really sell emotion.

551
00:34:42.179 --> 00:34:53.579
They just decided, oh, now it's my mother and now it's this, and, you know, I believe there was a rewrite on one episode, but hang on, you haven't put in the scene where C Club stares off camera.

552
00:34:53.639 --> 00:34:54.059
Come on now.

553
00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:55.860
There you go.

554
00:34:55.920 --> 00:34:58.260
I've missed you like a Cardassian Mrs. Cake.

555
00:34:58.320 --> 00:34:59.280
What is that?

556
00:34:59.340 --> 00:35:03.119
I don't know, but apparently Cardassians like cake.

557
00:35:03.179 --> 00:35:04.260
It's Canon.

558
00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:05.519
In the future, maybe.

559
00:35:06.719 --> 00:35:10.679
Give a man a tour back and you're warm in the desert, he says.

560
00:35:10.739 --> 00:35:14.760
Like just all of these sayings are so ridiculous.

561
00:35:14.820 --> 00:35:16.320
So fantastic.

562
00:35:16.380 --> 00:35:18.599
He is he is a fun character.

563
00:35:18.659 --> 00:35:21.239
But these scenes are sort of a lot of nothing, aren't they?

564
00:35:22.380 --> 00:35:24.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

565
00:35:24.300 --> 00:35:28.320
Like we're getting to we are still getting to the place where we need to get it, aren't we?

566
00:35:28.380 --> 00:35:31.500
And he, he's a, yeah.

567
00:35:31.559 --> 00:35:35.099
Yeah, it's very cool watching her, you know, beating that guy up in the ring.

568
00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:39.900
But again, that's we're just sort of slowly moving this on to where we...

569
00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:42.780
That's a very odd sequence.

570
00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:47.460
Like it's an action sequence and there's... fights are cheap.

571
00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:51.000
Fist fights are cheap to realise as far as action goes.

572
00:35:51.059 --> 00:35:53.219
And so maybe we're doing it for that reason.

573
00:35:53.340 --> 00:35:56.099
I might have sat down in the writer's room and gone. a lot of talk here.

574
00:35:56.159 --> 00:35:57.900
We need some action Yeah, yeah.

575
00:35:57.960 --> 00:35:58.559
What are we going to do?

576
00:35:58.619 --> 00:35:59.460
Well, she's there.

577
00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:00.960
Why don't we just have a...

578
00:36:01.019 --> 00:36:04.260
Do we know Joanna something to do?

579
00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:04.980
Yeah, exactly.

580
00:36:08.099 --> 00:36:09.719
I don't know what they're talking about here.

581
00:36:09.780 --> 00:36:13.079
I can't remember, but Oo has, there was something.

582
00:36:13.380 --> 00:36:16.980
I like the very relaxed chemistry between those 2 actresses.

583
00:36:17.039 --> 00:36:17.940
Yeah.

584
00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:20.880
Well, I just like the very relaxed chemistry between all the crew now.

585
00:36:21.239 --> 00:36:23.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

586
00:36:23.579 --> 00:36:29.460
It's a thing that we never had before except on Deep Space 9 and now it's the new normal.

587
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:30.360
Look what they do, really.

588
00:36:30.420 --> 00:36:37.679
They doing all the things they don't do in 90s trek. some dry ice pumping around the set. and they've got windows with light coming in, you know?

589
00:36:37.739 --> 00:36:38.460
Yep, yep.

590
00:36:38.519 --> 00:36:39.599
Yep.

591
00:36:39.900 --> 00:36:45.300
And it, and so that, is that a Zindia insectoid?

592
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:48.900
You could probably give it that reading.

593
00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:52.320
I don't think they look like that, but in the future, maybe.

594
00:36:52.500 --> 00:36:55.260
Oh, they had much bigger eyes, didn't they?

595
00:36:55.320 --> 00:36:56.940
They had like big fly eyes.

596
00:36:57.000 --> 00:37:03.719
This isn't sort of the most canteen-ish Star Trek scene we've ever seen because I think they have done better.

597
00:37:03.780 --> 00:37:06.960
But it's enough. there's enough here Yeah, yeah, yeah.

598
00:37:07.019 --> 00:37:07.559
Yeah, yeah.

599
00:37:07.619 --> 00:37:10.619
So here, look, so here we actually made.

600
00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:13.440
And we get the scene that we never thought we would get to have.

601
00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:17.760
And this, you know, like we just...

602
00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:20.039
How did you find me?

603
00:37:20.099 --> 00:37:22.019
Like, you're kidding me, right?

604
00:37:22.139 --> 00:37:25.139
Like you're really asking that?

605
00:37:25.199 --> 00:37:31.440
And I ask you a question about how attractive people are in Kersman Trick.

606
00:37:31.500 --> 00:37:36.719
Oh, because is it that they are more attractive than the people that are in 90s trek?

607
00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:43.139
Or, as in this scene, is it that they just like them in such a spectacular way that they look even more beautiful?

608
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:45.659
Oh, both, I think.

609
00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:46.980
Look how he's lit there.

610
00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:48.599
Yeah, yeah.

611
00:37:48.659 --> 00:37:50.159
It's just beautiful.

612
00:37:50.340 --> 00:37:52.440
Just, yeah, yeah.

613
00:37:52.500 --> 00:38:01.019
I think, like, I think it has become more important in the last 30 years for people on TV to be pretty.

614
00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:02.039
Don't you think?

615
00:38:02.099 --> 00:38:03.659
It's kind of a shame, isn't it?

616
00:38:03.719 --> 00:38:06.059
It's a shame because I feel like we were...

617
00:38:06.059 --> 00:38:08.699
But we recall a bit if they're not attractive people all the time.

618
00:38:08.940 --> 00:38:11.579
When I'm on tell, when I'm watching telly.

619
00:38:11.639 --> 00:38:13.139
There are people with talent.

620
00:38:13.199 --> 00:38:14.219
There are run of tracks here.

621
00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:19.739
Don't wash Downton Abbey then. in a lot of trouble, yeah.

622
00:38:19.800 --> 00:38:28.199
No, but I'm super happy to see that everyone on Star Trek is very attractive now and that's a good thing and gosh, David Ajala is so pretty.

623
00:38:28.260 --> 00:38:30.840
And I'm not throwing shade when I say this.

624
00:38:30.900 --> 00:38:35.340
That's why I really liked Tilly, who I don't think is unattractive.

625
00:38:35.460 --> 00:38:39.659
But she's not a supermodel and she is overweight.

626
00:38:39.719 --> 00:38:41.820
And I think that's really refreshing to say.

627
00:38:41.880 --> 00:38:43.320
No, I agree.

628
00:38:43.380 --> 00:38:45.599
She's still kick arse and beautiful, you know.

629
00:38:45.659 --> 00:38:47.340
And she was normal.

630
00:38:47.400 --> 00:38:49.800
She was like a normal, real person that you might know.

631
00:38:49.860 --> 00:38:56.639
That seems, remember, in the Harry Mudd episode where she's at the party and she's got the boobs and she's like, come on, everybody.

632
00:38:56.699 --> 00:38:59.039
She likes soldiers now.

633
00:38:59.099 --> 00:39:01.500
We always get illusions to that.

634
00:39:01.619 --> 00:39:03.659
Picard was a rebel when as a kid.

635
00:39:03.719 --> 00:39:07.380
Cisco and Curzon, but we never actually see it in 90s.

636
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:07.679
No.

637
00:39:07.739 --> 00:39:09.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

638
00:39:09.179 --> 00:39:09.539
Yeah.

639
00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:14.039
So, so she's not been able to persuade him.

640
00:39:14.340 --> 00:39:18.000
And now she's trying to, I'm a Banta tree either way.

641
00:39:18.119 --> 00:39:18.719
What exactly?

642
00:39:18.719 --> 00:39:26.820
The thing is that because of the way the conversation goes, you understand exactly what he says.

643
00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:28.019
You know what I mean?

644
00:39:28.079 --> 00:39:32.039
Like, there's nothing you're never there really going, oh, like, what does that mean?

645
00:39:32.099 --> 00:39:34.920
It's not in context, absolutely.

646
00:39:34.980 --> 00:39:36.119
I don't know what they're called.

647
00:39:36.179 --> 00:39:38.639
Tamarian, Darmokian from Lower Decks.

648
00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:40.739
Talks only in metaphor.

649
00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:42.900
Yeah, that's hilarious.

650
00:39:43.500 --> 00:39:46.139
So look at this hot guy.

651
00:39:46.199 --> 00:39:47.519
Now, he's not a wrestler.

652
00:39:47.579 --> 00:39:54.780
The guy who's credited, he's actually not credited, but he's called beefy guy, the bodyguard who...

653
00:39:54.840 --> 00:39:57.599
Yeah, beefy guy is the bodyguard.

654
00:39:57.659 --> 00:39:58.320
It's robot.

655
00:39:58.320 --> 00:39:59.519
That comes into that.

656
00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:00.360
This is great fun.

657
00:40:00.420 --> 00:40:00.960
It's a dot.

658
00:40:01.019 --> 00:40:01.500
Yeah.

659
00:40:02.639 --> 00:40:05.099
He's just trying to polish the place.

660
00:40:05.400 --> 00:40:09.900
But do you notice that go back to your dock or whatever?

661
00:40:09.960 --> 00:40:11.699
Like it's a room bar?

662
00:40:12.599 --> 00:40:18.719
I've got to say, you know, like the last episode, this was probably my favourite scene in the episode.

663
00:40:18.780 --> 00:40:21.360
I'm really invested in this pair of characters.

664
00:40:22.019 --> 00:40:28.079
I think, I think, you know, it's sort of where, wherever your investment is, that's where your heart is in the episode.

665
00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:30.000
Yeah.

666
00:40:30.059 --> 00:40:32.039
Well, I the thing that I really like.

667
00:40:32.099 --> 00:40:47.760
So this is, again, just retelling us what happened last, like, 6 weeks ago with COVID, but this thing where he says, I'm responsible for the psychological and emotional health of everyone on board this ship, and Paul goes, you've got to be kidding.

668
00:40:47.820 --> 00:40:49.559
Like, is that, is that?

669
00:40:49.980 --> 00:40:51.659
Is that what you think?

670
00:40:51.719 --> 00:40:55.739
That's what I say to her, Rory Dax, you know, when she takes the job as counsellor.

671
00:40:55.800 --> 00:40:57.960
Cisco goes, I want you to take a good look around this room.

672
00:40:58.019 --> 00:41:01.739
You've just agreed to take on the psychological problems of everyone.

673
00:41:01.860 --> 00:41:06.420
That's right It's a point worth making.

674
00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:11.159
But I mean, this scene doesn't really have anything to do with the rest of the episode, does it?

675
00:41:11.219 --> 00:41:13.860
It is just here to give huge...

676
00:41:13.860 --> 00:41:18.840
I love about the characters, though, is this just isn't stressed as a gay relationship.

677
00:41:18.900 --> 00:41:24.539
It is a normal relationship that just happens to be between 2 men going for all those things.

678
00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:27.059
And even today in television.

679
00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:31.860
I think they still stress. the word gay, you know?

680
00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:35.099
And it's just the way it's normalised here in Star Trek.

681
00:41:35.159 --> 00:41:37.559
Again, I think it's another reason why people have issues with this show.

682
00:41:37.619 --> 00:41:38.820
Yeah.

683
00:41:38.820 --> 00:41:46.920
Well, and like we just said, Gray and Adira get mentioned, Gray is back on trill, you know, um, Is Adira around?

684
00:41:46.980 --> 00:41:47.820
I can't even remember.

685
00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:51.840
But this, I love this, let's be terrified together.

686
00:41:51.900 --> 00:41:52.800
Yeah that's great.

687
00:41:52.920 --> 00:42:01.860
And now we're going off to the holiday deck to go for a walk in a flower meadow and like...

688
00:42:01.860 --> 00:42:03.659
This basically is TNG now, isn't it?

689
00:42:03.719 --> 00:42:05.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

690
00:42:08.820 --> 00:42:12.179
And look, I just...

691
00:42:12.179 --> 00:42:14.820
In fact, remember how we...

692
00:42:14.820 --> 00:42:17.639
We always make the Discovery DS9 parallels.

693
00:42:17.699 --> 00:42:20.880
Yeah, like the 2 black sheep of their iterations of Star Trek.

694
00:42:20.940 --> 00:42:21.480
Yeah, yeah.

695
00:42:21.780 --> 00:42:23.880
Cold War is the wayon of discovery.

696
00:42:23.940 --> 00:42:25.619
Oh, no, we've killed him off.

697
00:42:25.679 --> 00:42:28.380
That was a terrible mistake. him back.

698
00:42:28.440 --> 00:42:33.599
And now the dot, now that these bastards have gone, now the dot can get on with his vacuuming.

699
00:42:33.659 --> 00:42:34.260
There's more on.

700
00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:35.760
Is that Mark Shepherd?

701
00:42:35.820 --> 00:42:36.599
Mark Anna Shepard.

702
00:42:36.659 --> 00:42:38.639
No, I don't know.

703
00:42:39.420 --> 00:42:45.780
We have had one of his races well in series 3 episode one, I think.

704
00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:48.360
Oh, no, isn't there a load of them in an action sequence?

705
00:42:48.420 --> 00:42:50.340
Yeah, yeah, I think so.

706
00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:53.880
I like the idea that there's always a mourn propping up a bar.

707
00:42:53.940 --> 00:42:55.079
Yeah.

708
00:42:55.139 --> 00:43:05.699
But like Joanne and Michael just together touching heads and stuff, you know, there's there is just real love in this crew, which I think is so great.

709
00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:14.639
I'm going to make an unfavourable comparison to Voyager, though, now, I'm afraid, because it looks so much more interesting than can't see.

710
00:43:14.760 --> 00:43:17.280
Because they literally, they run up the walls.

711
00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:18.239
When did you last watch?

712
00:43:18.239 --> 00:43:22.739
They run up the walls and they've got crazy lighting going on in some car seat.

713
00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:24.900
This is just a box standard boxing ring.

714
00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:30.300
Yeah, I know, but it is beautifully shot, though, and beautifully lit. beautiful people, isn't it?

715
00:43:30.360 --> 00:43:34.320
And holy crap. shit out of him.

716
00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:39.300
He really thinks he's got the better of her as well, doesn't he?

717
00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:41.340
Look, he picks her up for his head.

718
00:43:41.400 --> 00:43:44.340
Yeah, yeah, no, she loses instantly.

719
00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:46.320
Like, he picks her up and then drops her.

720
00:43:46.619 --> 00:43:51.300
There's no rules, but if you land on the ground, and she's she's kind of okay.

721
00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:53.579
Like, she's up pretty quick, I think.

722
00:43:53.639 --> 00:43:56.340
They should have done what they did in Suncastle.

723
00:43:56.400 --> 00:43:57.300
You know, when they brought in the rock.

724
00:43:57.360 --> 00:44:01.679
They should have had a like a real sports announcer from now.

725
00:44:02.940 --> 00:44:05.460
So he's cur.

726
00:44:05.519 --> 00:44:07.079
He's not a boxer.

727
00:44:07.139 --> 00:44:09.599
He must be an underwear model or something.

728
00:44:09.659 --> 00:44:09.960
Look at him.

729
00:44:10.019 --> 00:44:11.280
I mean, for God's sake.

730
00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:13.199
Wow.

731
00:44:13.199 --> 00:44:17.639
They do have some insanely hot man in discovery.

732
00:44:17.699 --> 00:44:19.260
Look at him.

733
00:44:19.320 --> 00:44:21.059
Look at him smiling and laughing at him.

734
00:44:21.119 --> 00:44:27.179
I don't care about saying it because I know there's that demographic definitely listens to this podcast.

735
00:44:27.239 --> 00:44:28.679
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

736
00:44:28.739 --> 00:44:29.940
But look, look, there, there.

737
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:38.400
You've got some proper aliens there with sort of rubber heads and stuff, not just latex guys, but like proper Star Wars aliens, which we're finally starting to get.

738
00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:42.780
But we still haven't quite got to the point.

739
00:44:43.079 --> 00:44:45.179
No, no.

740
00:44:45.239 --> 00:44:46.980
Yeah, yeah.

741
00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:50.219
They keep focussing on that one that blinks.

742
00:44:50.639 --> 00:44:52.320
He blinks.

743
00:44:52.380 --> 00:44:53.099
Get him in shot.

744
00:44:53.099 --> 00:44:56.460
But isn't that because he's the changeling?

745
00:44:56.760 --> 00:44:59.639
Yeah, oh, that, no, sorry.

746
00:44:59.699 --> 00:45:02.039
Actually, that's the other moment, which I thought was visually great.

747
00:45:02.159 --> 00:45:05.159
Shriveler becomes a changeling is great.

748
00:45:05.219 --> 00:45:06.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

749
00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:24.719
So we said when we saw Amanda Plummer and the and the changeling in that episode in the worst no win scenario episode of Picard, that what they went for is that the, in their natural form, the change things are kind of raw chicken meat.

750
00:45:24.780 --> 00:45:27.000
But that's not what we do here, is it?

751
00:45:27.119 --> 00:45:30.480
What we do is they're kind of like particles that reform.

752
00:45:30.539 --> 00:45:34.199
Like it's a, it's a different effect, a different way of looking at them.

753
00:45:34.260 --> 00:45:39.239
But I liked that they were here because, you know, this is the 32nd century.

754
00:45:39.300 --> 00:45:41.460
It's so great, isn't it?

755
00:45:41.460 --> 00:45:45.119
They can take all these established races, but make up their own rules.

756
00:45:45.179 --> 00:45:47.159
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

757
00:45:47.219 --> 00:45:47.820
It's so fun.

758
00:45:47.880 --> 00:45:50.219
I'm going to make a comparison again.

759
00:45:50.280 --> 00:45:51.119
I know I do this a lot.

760
00:45:51.179 --> 00:45:55.320
Even when we watched Batterbag, Batterbag, and that camera was swooping about all over the place.

761
00:45:55.380 --> 00:45:58.199
And we were going, my God, some energy and excitement.

762
00:45:58.260 --> 00:45:58.860
Yeah.

763
00:45:58.860 --> 00:46:00.239
I saw I'm missing here.

764
00:46:00.300 --> 00:46:02.519
And that's unusual for discovery.

765
00:46:02.579 --> 00:46:06.300
You know, Jonathan Frakes usually has a drone zooming about the place.

766
00:46:06.360 --> 00:46:08.159
Where's the drone?

767
00:46:08.280 --> 00:46:11.699
This is this is not shot like 90s trek at all.

768
00:46:11.760 --> 00:46:15.719
Like, there's no shot here that you would have done on 90s track.

769
00:46:15.780 --> 00:46:16.679
Just look at how...

770
00:46:16.679 --> 00:46:19.260
But it doesn't...

771
00:46:20.400 --> 00:46:22.860
Yeah, maybe that's right.

772
00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:23.760
Maybe it takes a while.

773
00:46:23.820 --> 00:46:25.320
I'm afraid to direct this one.

774
00:46:25.920 --> 00:46:27.539
Yeah, yeah.

775
00:46:27.599 --> 00:46:28.199
Yeah, yeah.

776
00:46:28.260 --> 00:46:30.119
Yeah. some more Latinum.

777
00:46:30.179 --> 00:46:35.639
I think before we start in production, Jonathan break goes, wow, what is the latest technology we've got to shoot things.

778
00:46:35.699 --> 00:46:36.900
I'm using Yeah, yeah, yeah.

779
00:46:36.900 --> 00:46:38.820
Have you got more drones for me?

780
00:46:38.940 --> 00:46:40.079
If you're more drones for me.

781
00:46:40.139 --> 00:46:43.980
Someone should teach you to quit. someone should teach your friend some manners.

782
00:46:44.039 --> 00:46:45.179
That's great.

783
00:46:45.239 --> 00:46:46.739
And he's laughing.

784
00:46:47.039 --> 00:46:48.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

785
00:46:48.960 --> 00:46:52.260
Well, and being pretty and he's got an ugly, ugly manager.

786
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:53.219
So there you go.

787
00:46:53.280 --> 00:46:55.440
Um, there's that.

788
00:46:55.500 --> 00:46:58.199
Look at her, look how confident she is.

789
00:46:58.260 --> 00:46:59.219
So wonderful.

790
00:46:59.280 --> 00:47:03.719
She is something very hot about strong, confident women, isn't it?

791
00:47:03.780 --> 00:47:09.059
Yeah, yeah, and she's super sweaty, and now she's just going for his dick, and that's just kind of...

792
00:47:09.059 --> 00:47:21.420
How to emasculate a man in 2 seconds. the face, Joanne. just leave the face I'll nurse his wings as long as you don't know his face.

793
00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:25.019
Oh, she just kicked him.

794
00:47:25.079 --> 00:47:26.940
She kicked him right in the nose.

795
00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:29.400
Have you ever been kicked in the nose?

796
00:47:29.460 --> 00:47:30.360
It is agonising.

797
00:47:30.420 --> 00:47:31.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

798
00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:33.300
Yeah, punching the throat.

799
00:47:33.360 --> 00:47:33.900
There we go.

800
00:47:33.960 --> 00:47:35.820
And down he goes.

801
00:47:35.880 --> 00:47:39.599
On you, Joe. I'm going to throw in a top 2 reference here.

802
00:47:39.659 --> 00:47:42.239
Are you getting Zoe on the carcass vibes out of this?

803
00:47:43.619 --> 00:47:45.840
No, it's Joanne.

804
00:47:45.900 --> 00:47:46.679
Oh, wo.

805
00:47:46.739 --> 00:47:47.639
Oh, wow.

806
00:47:47.699 --> 00:47:48.900
Oh, wokus sagoon.

807
00:47:48.960 --> 00:47:49.679
I can't even say that.

808
00:47:49.739 --> 00:47:50.519
No.

809
00:47:50.579 --> 00:47:51.000
Oh, wow.

810
00:47:51.059 --> 00:47:53.400
It's what I should be showering.

811
00:47:53.460 --> 00:47:55.260
They're so gorgeous.

812
00:47:55.320 --> 00:47:56.280
That's wonderful.

813
00:47:56.579 --> 00:47:58.380
Yeah, that was fun.

814
00:47:58.440 --> 00:48:00.239
That's what this episode needed.

815
00:48:00.300 --> 00:48:01.380
I can see why it's there.

816
00:48:01.440 --> 00:48:06.659
Yeah, that's clearly why it's there because I was kind of wondering why does no character thing happen.

817
00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:07.920
This woman is wonderful.

818
00:48:07.980 --> 00:48:09.480
She's so deadpad, isn't she?

819
00:48:09.539 --> 00:48:14.039
And like she's got a giant tray of latinum and she says, do you want a bag because there's more?

820
00:48:14.880 --> 00:48:17.400
She's like, I've got 3 lines.

821
00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:18.539
I'm going to make him count.

822
00:48:18.599 --> 00:48:20.880
Yeah, yeah, she really does sell it.

823
00:48:20.940 --> 00:48:21.539
She's awesome.

824
00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:23.699
That, I want one of those knives.

825
00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:30.480
I don't really, because I don't want to stab anyone, but like the knife that just appears in your hand via, yeah, here we go.

826
00:48:30.599 --> 00:48:32.280
Right hook.

827
00:48:32.340 --> 00:48:33.719
Here we go.

828
00:48:33.780 --> 00:48:37.139
Right hook, Captain right hook of Starfleet.

829
00:48:37.739 --> 00:48:43.380
But they help one another, and now, so she, so he helps her.

830
00:48:43.440 --> 00:48:45.960
Now she's going to rush off and help him.

831
00:48:46.019 --> 00:48:54.300
So they're here competing to get the money for the isolenium, but they can't stop helping one another because they work so well together.

832
00:48:54.420 --> 00:48:56.460
The effects are changing now.

833
00:48:56.519 --> 00:48:59.099
It's basically like sand, isn't it, falling?

834
00:48:59.219 --> 00:48:59.940
It like sand.

835
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:00.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

836
00:49:00.900 --> 00:49:02.699
But look, she's got an Odo face.

837
00:49:02.760 --> 00:49:04.260
Look, look, look.

838
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:04.559
Yeah.

839
00:49:04.619 --> 00:49:05.519
Yeah.

840
00:49:06.059 --> 00:49:09.179
I like the fact that that's a bit throw away.

841
00:49:09.239 --> 00:49:11.820
That's not what this episode is about, but you do see it changing, isn't it?

842
00:49:11.880 --> 00:49:12.719
It's just a nice detail.

843
00:49:12.780 --> 00:49:14.159
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

844
00:49:14.219 --> 00:49:17.820
I mean, they did it better in Picard series 3, obviously.

845
00:49:17.880 --> 00:49:19.079
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

846
00:49:19.139 --> 00:49:20.159
Well, they probably...

847
00:49:20.159 --> 00:49:22.199
Happiness, Amanda Plummer.

848
00:49:22.260 --> 00:49:24.000
I know. good.

849
00:49:24.599 --> 00:49:27.059
Oh, isolenium.

850
00:49:27.179 --> 00:49:27.780
I know.

851
00:49:27.840 --> 00:49:29.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

852
00:49:29.880 --> 00:49:33.599
But it is a, you know, like it's a McGuffin.

853
00:49:33.659 --> 00:49:34.320
Do you know what I mean?

854
00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:38.639
And Jesus Christ, if I was criticising that, I would never watch Star Trek ever.

855
00:49:38.760 --> 00:49:40.980
Star Trek again, they're all...

856
00:49:41.039 --> 00:49:42.300
That's basically why they go.

857
00:49:43.739 --> 00:49:46.079
And so now we have.

858
00:49:46.079 --> 00:49:46.920
Did you see that line?

859
00:49:46.980 --> 00:49:50.519
He goes, yes, well, now that's done, you can get back to your relationship, whatnot.

860
00:49:50.760 --> 00:49:52.260
What not?

861
00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:53.219
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

862
00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:54.840
That's pretty great, isn't it?

863
00:49:56.159 --> 00:50:00.900
And so here is where it climaxes.

864
00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:08.760
And we, they still can't stop helping one another, even at this point when they're up against one another.

865
00:50:08.820 --> 00:50:09.420
They're in love.

866
00:50:09.420 --> 00:50:10.739
It's winner takes all.

867
00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:11.340
Yeah.

868
00:50:11.400 --> 00:50:18.300
But also not just that they're in love, but they work so well together on the, you know, it's the natural state.

869
00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:23.639
They just fall into this thing after years of experience or more than a year's experience.

870
00:50:23.699 --> 00:50:29.460
There's a good, strong, dragic idea to take this relationship that works like gangbusters and then put something...

871
00:50:29.460 --> 00:50:32.219
That's what you know, which they cannot reconcile about.

872
00:50:32.340 --> 00:50:33.360
Yeah, that's a good idea.

873
00:50:33.420 --> 00:50:34.320
It's a good strong idea.

874
00:50:34.500 --> 00:50:36.239
I'm not sure.

875
00:50:36.300 --> 00:50:40.619
I would have sacrificed an entire episode to get to this point, but it's a good idea.

876
00:50:40.679 --> 00:50:42.960
Well, I've been having fun.

877
00:50:43.019 --> 00:50:43.800
Do you know what I mean?

878
00:50:43.860 --> 00:50:44.760
It does look pretty.

879
00:50:44.820 --> 00:50:46.019
I'm sort of happy.

880
00:50:47.880 --> 00:50:53.099
These miserable bastards as well, they get no lines.

881
00:50:53.159 --> 00:50:57.239
We can't pay for them to talk and they're, what are they doing?

882
00:50:57.300 --> 00:51:03.480
They, um, they, they, they're members of the, uh...

883
00:51:03.539 --> 00:51:05.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

884
00:51:05.099 --> 00:51:05.940
Yeah, yeah.

885
00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:07.619
Oh, isolenium.

886
00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:09.960
How many times shall I say that word in this episode?

887
00:51:10.019 --> 00:51:12.539
Oh, yeah, well, it is the McGuffin.

888
00:51:15.599 --> 00:51:20.639
So it's the thing that powers the bomb, of course, and she only wants it so that he can't get it.

889
00:51:20.699 --> 00:51:22.559
Um, is the idea.

890
00:51:22.619 --> 00:51:24.239
Is there not much of it about then?

891
00:51:24.780 --> 00:51:26.219
Yeah.

892
00:51:26.280 --> 00:51:27.000
Yeah.

893
00:51:27.059 --> 00:51:30.900
And so this, Schaefer colony.

894
00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:33.239
And there's a really funny story.

895
00:51:33.300 --> 00:51:44.519
She tells the story of what happened in Schaefer Colony and she says, I knew a man on Schaefer Colony and he got involved in a poker game and he lost and he had to walk home in the emperor's new clothes.

896
00:51:44.579 --> 00:51:54.599
And that's the point at which we realised she's actually talking about book, having to walk home naked from a poker game, and she says, not that anyone was complaining.

897
00:51:56.340 --> 00:52:00.239
Now that's how you do those sort of dialogue scenes and stuff.

898
00:52:00.719 --> 00:52:05.880
Yeah, so it's, it's, you know, introduced here and then it's settled.

899
00:52:05.940 --> 00:52:09.780
So this scene here is the scene where she does the thing.

900
00:52:09.840 --> 00:52:14.340
This is where she wins because she knows that she can't beat Booker at poker.

901
00:52:14.400 --> 00:52:17.940
Like it's something stupid poker, is it?

902
00:52:18.000 --> 00:52:20.880
Leonard Poker or something like space poker.

903
00:52:21.300 --> 00:52:23.219
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

904
00:52:23.280 --> 00:52:26.039
So she can't win, but she can do this.

905
00:52:26.099 --> 00:52:30.539
And so she's put a thing, a technology that's already been established.

906
00:52:30.840 --> 00:52:36.480
She puts a little thing on the isolenium so that she can now track booker.

907
00:52:36.539 --> 00:52:44.460
So even though she doesn't leave with him, she does actually find him and make there be a way of finding him.

908
00:52:44.519 --> 00:52:53.579
She's doing the Penny Johnson thing from Banabang here at the poker table where she's just relaxing into this role and loving it.

909
00:52:53.639 --> 00:52:55.380
She's really funny.

910
00:52:55.440 --> 00:52:55.920
Really?

911
00:52:55.920 --> 00:52:56.280
Really?

912
00:52:56.280 --> 00:52:57.480
Really?

913
00:52:57.539 --> 00:52:59.219
Did you hear?

914
00:52:59.400 --> 00:53:01.019
Did you hear what has said a minute ago as well?

915
00:53:01.019 --> 00:53:01.679
It goes, oh, no.

916
00:53:01.739 --> 00:53:03.059
I've never been much for love.

917
00:53:03.119 --> 00:53:05.579
I do hope it works out between the 2 of you.

918
00:53:06.420 --> 00:53:11.699
I feel like that that sort of character, but they've lost now, haven't they?

919
00:53:11.760 --> 00:53:13.260
It's the Shaw show. the Tilly.

920
00:53:13.320 --> 00:53:15.360
It's the person that sort of cuts to the chase.

921
00:53:15.420 --> 00:53:16.679
Yeah.

922
00:53:16.739 --> 00:53:22.199
I think this is a good guess character to have involved. they're all back in series series 5, are they?

923
00:53:22.260 --> 00:53:28.019
I don't know whether Giorgio is, but I think Tilly is probably back, at least for some of her.

924
00:53:28.079 --> 00:53:29.099
At least, you know, turn up.

925
00:53:29.159 --> 00:53:29.400
Yeah.

926
00:53:30.059 --> 00:53:32.340
Look how much fun she's having.

927
00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:35.039
But I mean, it's the contrast, doesn't it?

928
00:53:35.099 --> 00:53:37.559
She's having a lot of fun and then it gets serious.

929
00:53:37.619 --> 00:53:39.239
Yeah, yeah.

930
00:53:39.300 --> 00:53:47.219
And it's it is partly a ploy because they are still kind of trying to ensure that those 2 don't get the isolenium, I guess.

931
00:53:47.280 --> 00:53:48.420
Yeah, this is it.

932
00:53:48.480 --> 00:53:51.719
Only to go home in the, in the, on the emperor's new clothes.

933
00:53:51.780 --> 00:53:53.280
Not that anyone was complaining.

934
00:53:53.340 --> 00:53:56.280
She looks right at him when she says it and he looks away.

935
00:53:56.340 --> 00:54:01.739
And it lands in a way that all those jokes we've been talking about in 90s trek didn't.

936
00:54:01.739 --> 00:54:04.260
Because they weren't even jokes, you know?

937
00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:05.639
An actual joke.

938
00:54:05.699 --> 00:54:07.440
It's not a non- joke, you know?

939
00:54:07.500 --> 00:54:10.260
But a camera doesn't sort of linger as well, you know?

940
00:54:10.320 --> 00:54:11.699
are you laughing?

941
00:54:13.199 --> 00:54:19.920
There's a woman sitting around the table with very heavy eye makeup who looks desperately bored by the whole thing.

942
00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:22.199
The man has very heavy iron, man.

943
00:54:22.260 --> 00:54:23.699
But he doesn't, I think is kind of hard.

944
00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:25.980
Look how it looks wryly amused by the whole thing.

945
00:54:26.039 --> 00:54:27.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

946
00:54:30.780 --> 00:54:31.920
Extra watching.

947
00:54:31.980 --> 00:54:32.820
It's always a lot of fun.

948
00:54:33.300 --> 00:54:36.059
Yeah, he's cute that extra though.

949
00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:36.719
Look at him.

950
00:54:36.780 --> 00:54:37.500
He's very pretty.

951
00:54:37.559 --> 00:54:40.920
This doesn't look like the most fun game in the world though, does it?

952
00:54:40.980 --> 00:54:43.019
Well, poker never does.

953
00:54:43.079 --> 00:54:44.579
I never understand it.

954
00:54:44.639 --> 00:54:48.360
No, I know to play poker, but...

955
00:54:48.360 --> 00:54:51.119
It's the fun is who you're playing with, not the game itself.

956
00:54:52.199 --> 00:54:55.019
Another callback to the Schaefer colony.

957
00:54:56.760 --> 00:54:59.039
Oh, now we're moving it up.

958
00:54:59.099 --> 00:55:00.300
We're dropping the odd frame.

959
00:55:00.360 --> 00:55:04.619
Oh, look, we're giving signals very obvious signals to each other.

960
00:55:04.619 --> 00:55:05.460
She yours.

961
00:55:05.519 --> 00:55:06.960
I love how she yours.

962
00:55:07.079 --> 00:55:09.300
But they know each other.

963
00:55:09.360 --> 00:55:10.440
Do you know what I mean?

964
00:55:10.500 --> 00:55:16.739
Like they can just read the signals they're sending each other so we don't even need to be told that they're going to send signals.

965
00:55:16.800 --> 00:55:18.960
We just see shots of them and their reactions.

966
00:55:19.019 --> 00:55:21.179
And did you notice the ending nails?

967
00:55:21.239 --> 00:55:22.320
to their eyes.

968
00:55:22.380 --> 00:55:23.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

969
00:55:23.880 --> 00:55:29.880
Well, it's a thing that Star Trek, 90 Star Trek is almost never brave enough to try and do.

970
00:55:29.940 --> 00:55:34.199
It never relies on us being able to work. to suck stuff out visually.

971
00:55:34.260 --> 00:55:36.360
Subtext and stuff like that.

972
00:55:36.420 --> 00:55:36.900
Yeah.

973
00:55:37.019 --> 00:55:39.719
So I think this conversation is really properly good.

974
00:55:39.780 --> 00:55:44.340
And so this is why Joanna's here, I think.

975
00:55:44.340 --> 00:55:55.139
And he's immediately contemptuous of because he's kind of contemptuous of everyone, but also she's been in a fist fight and she's just a lieutenant commander at Starfleet.

976
00:55:55.199 --> 00:55:55.980
Do you know what I mean?

977
00:55:56.039 --> 00:55:59.880
And so he asked her what, she thing.

978
00:55:59.940 --> 00:56:03.900
And she says she understands him.

979
00:56:03.960 --> 00:56:04.440
Yeah.

980
00:56:04.500 --> 00:56:08.280
And and she works out what it is.

981
00:56:08.280 --> 00:56:09.659
Because...

982
00:56:10.440 --> 00:56:23.099
Because what happens at the end of this episode is that we discover that something very terrible is about to happen, and it's not the terrible thing that Taka and book fear.

983
00:56:23.159 --> 00:56:28.739
It's the terrible thing that we are going to provoke this incredibly powerful group of people.

984
00:56:28.800 --> 00:56:35.579
And she knows that that's a risk and she's deduced that he's doing it because someone's died, right?

985
00:56:35.639 --> 00:56:44.760
Um, But it's not revenge, and it's not the same thing that book is doing, which is trying to prevent it from happening again.

986
00:56:44.820 --> 00:56:51.840
It's this, keeping a promise maybe to someone who died, and then he says, okay, go away, you're boring me.

987
00:56:51.900 --> 00:56:59.820
And we find out what it is later and I think it's surprisingly touching. and weird and beautiful.

988
00:56:59.880 --> 00:57:03.420
You can choose for something good to come out of this, she says.

989
00:57:03.539 --> 00:57:04.679
I lie.

990
00:57:04.739 --> 00:57:05.519
Yeah.

991
00:57:05.579 --> 00:57:07.559
But I like what he says.

992
00:57:07.619 --> 00:57:11.880
He says, my loss was so great that I don't get that choice.

993
00:57:11.940 --> 00:57:19.559
If you could feel the log of mine, even for a fleeting moment, you'd reconsider how much of a choice with regards to what comes out of it.

994
00:57:19.800 --> 00:57:26.280
Yeah, and I think that sort of, again, that kind of dialogue is never get it.

995
00:57:26.340 --> 00:57:28.139
It's very, very well.

996
00:57:29.099 --> 00:57:29.340
Yeah.

997
00:57:30.360 --> 00:57:40.980
I'm just so vanished. so used to discovery sort of painting its moments big and white melodramatic and this is all very subtle.

998
00:57:41.039 --> 00:57:43.320
Mm, yeah.

999
00:57:43.380 --> 00:57:44.699
But I think that's deliberate.

1000
00:57:44.760 --> 00:57:47.880
I think, you know, I like that approach.

1001
00:57:47.940 --> 00:57:49.739
So we get it done too much.

1002
00:57:49.800 --> 00:57:52.440
Maybe they're learning, they don't have to make a fuss all the time to make a point.

1003
00:57:52.500 --> 00:57:53.280
Yeah.

1004
00:57:53.579 --> 00:57:58.860
Yeah, we don't have to have Michael sort of staring into the camera with her eyes welling up.

1005
00:57:58.920 --> 00:58:04.199
This is the best moment in the episode, though, where she says to her, isn't she, about walking away?

1006
00:58:04.199 --> 00:58:05.460
And he's like, yeah.

1007
00:58:05.519 --> 00:58:07.440
I'm walking away.

1008
00:58:07.800 --> 00:58:15.960
Yeah, but this every bridge, every bridge including the bridge between RC asks and she...

1009
00:58:15.960 --> 00:58:18.420
What does she say?

1010
00:58:18.480 --> 00:58:19.980
Yes, they'll send me after you.

1011
00:58:20.039 --> 00:58:21.480
Yeah.

1012
00:58:21.539 --> 00:58:22.500
So this is it.

1013
00:58:22.559 --> 00:58:26.639
You know, like if you win now, you have the choice to win or not to win.

1014
00:58:26.699 --> 00:58:31.320
And he she knows that it's his choice because she can't win against him.

1015
00:58:31.380 --> 00:58:33.719
And so this is the choice.

1016
00:58:33.900 --> 00:58:37.559
And he looks her in the eye and makes the choice.

1017
00:58:37.619 --> 00:58:39.539
Well, she's giving him the choice.

1018
00:58:39.599 --> 00:58:40.440
It doesn't have to be like that.

1019
00:58:40.500 --> 00:58:41.039
Yeah.

1020
00:58:41.039 --> 00:58:42.960
No, we can end this.

1021
00:58:43.019 --> 00:58:44.460
Let's end this.

1022
00:58:44.460 --> 00:58:47.460
And he's, let's end this.

1023
00:58:47.519 --> 00:58:51.960
And she says, all right, let's end, he says, all right, let's end this.

1024
00:58:52.019 --> 00:58:53.760
But they mean the opposite thing.

1025
00:58:54.480 --> 00:58:58.500
I'll never say that to you about untitled Star Trek Project, you know.

1026
00:58:58.559 --> 00:59:03.420
I just how stricken she looks because that's it.

1027
00:59:03.480 --> 00:59:08.460
She she gives him the opportunity to remake that choice and he makes it.

1028
00:59:08.519 --> 00:59:11.099
And the dialogue is clever.

1029
00:59:11.159 --> 00:59:13.679
You know, like there's, it's smart.

1030
00:59:13.980 --> 00:59:15.719
Look at him.

1031
00:59:15.780 --> 00:59:16.860
He's so beautiful.

1032
00:59:17.099 --> 00:59:18.900
It's a good moment.

1033
00:59:19.019 --> 00:59:19.440
It is.

1034
00:59:19.559 --> 00:59:25.440
And she, like, she's not, she's not, she's giving it to him, isn't she?

1035
00:59:25.500 --> 00:59:26.820
She's letting him have it.

1036
00:59:27.420 --> 00:59:29.400
And I think because she has that backup.

1037
00:59:29.519 --> 00:59:34.199
But she's looking at him because she knows what he's going through as well.

1038
00:59:34.320 --> 00:59:38.099
Like, you know, this, he's not being selfish.

1039
00:59:38.159 --> 00:59:38.940
He's not.

1040
00:59:40.199 --> 00:59:54.420
You know, he suffered great loss and and we've had that conversation about what loss does to your ability to make a choice and then we get the scene of him making the choice and the loss that he experienced is so great.

1041
00:59:54.480 --> 00:59:55.679
You get a lot to do in three.

1042
00:59:55.739 --> 00:59:58.139
Are they are they redressing that here?

1043
00:59:58.199 --> 00:59:59.579
I'm giving him lots to it for.

1044
00:59:59.639 --> 01:00:01.619
I think he had a lot to do it.

1045
01:00:01.679 --> 01:00:08.400
Well, yeah, I mean, because he's in this sort of weird position where he's just kind of, you know, the captain's fuck who's kind of...

1046
01:00:08.400 --> 01:00:09.960
I don't really...

1047
01:00:10.019 --> 01:00:13.920
I don't remember him doing anything at the end of 3 in that last episode we watched.

1048
01:00:13.980 --> 01:00:14.460
No.

1049
01:00:14.460 --> 01:00:21.599
Well, I'm assuming I'm assuming you get something to do at the end of four, given this whole midseason beer. all about him.

1050
01:00:21.659 --> 01:00:22.440
Yeah.

1051
01:00:23.159 --> 01:00:25.860
She's so good too, isn't she?

1052
01:00:25.920 --> 01:00:31.619
And again, it's that American way of acting where you don't necessarily say exactly what you're thinking.

1053
01:00:31.679 --> 01:00:35.219
It's that thing where you invite someone to think about what you're thinking.

1054
01:00:35.280 --> 01:00:36.539
It's really good.

1055
01:00:36.599 --> 01:00:37.679
She's just tremendous.

1056
01:00:38.400 --> 01:00:47.039
I do wonder, though, you know, if, uh, if some of it is going to go over the head of some people watching it that I used to be in spoon fed watching television.

1057
01:00:47.940 --> 01:00:53.039
Yeah, but I think I think in the last 30 years we've got better at watching TV.

1058
01:00:53.099 --> 01:00:54.000
Do you know what I mean?

1059
01:00:54.059 --> 01:00:58.019
Like I think that, and that's why this can afford to be like this.

1060
01:00:58.079 --> 01:01:07.679
And I'm sure, of course, there is more subtle and cleverer television, this is Star Trek, but it's certainly more subtle and cleverer than it used to be.

1061
01:01:07.739 --> 01:01:09.780
And I'm glad about that.

1062
01:01:09.840 --> 01:01:18.780
I'm happy to go back and watch Star Trek from the 90s, but I'm glad there's a version of Star Trek now that is a little bit more rewarding, I think.

1063
01:01:19.739 --> 01:01:22.980
Oh, so the 10 C.

1064
01:01:23.400 --> 01:01:25.139
So amazing.

1065
01:01:25.679 --> 01:01:29.639
Yeah, I'll be I'll be interested to see how that all pans out.

1066
01:01:29.760 --> 01:01:35.039
Yeah, so this is great too, because the other thing is that Relax isn't dumb.

1067
01:01:35.099 --> 01:01:37.739
She knows, she deduces exactly what happens.

1068
01:01:37.980 --> 01:01:43.559
She knows, but what she doesn't realise is that Michael still won this one.

1069
01:01:44.579 --> 01:01:46.019
Yeah.

1070
01:01:46.079 --> 01:01:51.900
So she knows that Vance gave her permission to go and get book.

1071
01:01:51.960 --> 01:01:54.059
Like, she deduces all of that.

1072
01:01:54.119 --> 01:01:55.199
She doesn't need to...

1073
01:01:55.260 --> 01:01:56.639
Again, it's not spelled out, is it?

1074
01:01:56.760 --> 01:01:57.780
Yeah.

1075
01:01:57.840 --> 01:01:59.400
We know.

1076
01:01:59.460 --> 01:02:01.199
Well, she just sort of comes in.

1077
01:02:01.260 --> 01:02:01.860
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1078
01:02:01.920 --> 01:02:02.280
Yeah.

1079
01:02:02.519 --> 01:02:08.760
But this is being spelled out and now we're getting, and I think we knew, we must have known that she did something.

1080
01:02:09.659 --> 01:02:11.820
Didn't, don't you think?

1081
01:02:12.420 --> 01:02:15.239
That scene was so...

1082
01:02:15.659 --> 01:02:21.659
But so she says it's the trackers that we used to use to trace the dilithium shipments.

1083
01:02:21.719 --> 01:02:32.699
And so there's something that's already been introduced and look where she brings her hand up and ta-da. here's a galactic map of where he is right now. from one episode to the other.

1084
01:02:32.760 --> 01:02:33.780
Let's go.

1085
01:02:37.920 --> 01:02:43.380
I will say, though, I will say, because we've watched 3 from season 4 now.

1086
01:02:44.760 --> 01:02:55.019
I currently remain unconvinced that because 2 of the 3 we've watched have been all right and one was really, really good.

1087
01:02:55.079 --> 01:02:59.820
So I think I need to see more of how incredible this season can be.

1088
01:02:59.940 --> 01:03:03.900
Because the prison one was just felt like a place villa.

1089
01:03:03.960 --> 01:03:08.760
This feels like a getting from A to B. We've only got 13 episodes this year.

1090
01:03:08.940 --> 01:03:10.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1091
01:03:10.860 --> 01:03:12.420
This is what, episode eight?

1092
01:03:12.480 --> 01:03:15.300
I mean, we've got 5 more or something after these.

1093
01:03:15.360 --> 01:03:17.280
But each one is distinct.

1094
01:03:17.340 --> 01:03:18.960
None of them have been terrible.

1095
01:03:19.019 --> 01:03:24.000
Like they haven't been unwatchably bad, like that dreary Talos 5 episode we watched.

1096
01:03:24.059 --> 01:03:26.219
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1097
01:03:26.280 --> 01:03:30.360
So this, again, like I really like this too.

1098
01:03:30.420 --> 01:03:34.199
And partly it's because you've got relax there who doesn't understand what's going on.

1099
01:03:34.260 --> 01:03:37.739
And also it's just like this thing is massive.

1100
01:03:37.800 --> 01:03:40.980
This is a big field that we've noticed in that place.

1101
01:03:41.039 --> 01:03:43.619
Remember that she was also there to get the star charts.

1102
01:03:43.739 --> 01:03:47.760
So this is what she got from, uh, has the star charts.

1103
01:03:47.820 --> 01:03:53.159
And it's big enough to, it's a structure that's big enough to contain an entire star system.

1104
01:03:53.219 --> 01:03:56.579
So the scale of it is like nothing that's ever been mentioned before.

1105
01:03:56.639 --> 01:04:02.280
Do you think they bring it down to such a sort of mundane description because she's there to make it easy for her?

1106
01:04:02.400 --> 01:04:03.960
No, because we're watching.

1107
01:04:04.019 --> 01:04:07.199
Well, yeah, I know, but that gives them a reason to do it as well, though.

1108
01:04:07.260 --> 01:04:09.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1109
01:04:09.059 --> 01:04:11.699
Can she be around in every scene then, please?

1110
01:04:13.260 --> 01:04:32.639
But this, again, even if we don't get this, she works out, if something is missing where the DMA has turned up, and then both of them decide Bora night, and only then does Zora come in and say, yes, there's no Bora night at any of the sides, and that's where she says, yeah, yeah, like whatever.

1111
01:04:32.699 --> 01:04:37.739
And she decides that's where she learns that it's a, it's dredging.

1112
01:04:37.800 --> 01:04:38.940
It's mining equipment.

1113
01:04:39.000 --> 01:04:43.139
There is just enough tech bubble here, though, for me to be...

1114
01:04:43.199 --> 01:04:45.960
Yeah, yeah, but of course you want technobabble.

1115
01:04:46.019 --> 01:04:50.880
I think you want technobabble, but and this scene only exists to explain this point.

1116
01:04:50.940 --> 01:04:51.420
Exactly.

1117
01:04:51.420 --> 01:04:51.960
You know what I mean?

1118
01:04:52.019 --> 01:04:56.639
Unlike that dreadful scene we saw in Voyager where they were looking for who was it?

1119
01:04:56.699 --> 01:04:57.300
Who were they looking for?

1120
01:04:57.360 --> 01:04:58.920
Fate in faces, B'lana.

1121
01:04:58.980 --> 01:05:02.940
And it was just interminable amounts of techno bag were leading nowhere.

1122
01:05:03.179 --> 01:05:07.980
But this is them discovering a thing as we discovered.

1123
01:05:08.039 --> 01:05:11.219
It doesn't exist just to explain the plot to us. for them to find it out.

1124
01:05:11.280 --> 01:05:15.300
We watch them working out what's happening and the implication.

1125
01:05:15.360 --> 01:05:18.900
Anomally, she says it's mining equipment, yeah?

1126
01:05:18.960 --> 01:05:22.380
So what is churning up the universe for what purpose?

1127
01:05:22.860 --> 01:05:29.820
to get Boronite to maintain the energy needed to run that field.

1128
01:05:30.300 --> 01:05:33.000
That's what they said. for?

1129
01:05:33.420 --> 01:05:35.039
We don't know.

1130
01:05:35.099 --> 01:05:36.119
We don't know what's in it.

1131
01:05:36.360 --> 01:05:38.400
The answers are compelling.

1132
01:05:38.760 --> 01:05:40.500
Yeah, yeah.

1133
01:05:40.559 --> 01:05:42.960
Well, it's the tenator there, aren't they?

1134
01:05:43.019 --> 01:05:57.420
Um, but, but notice too that immediately the person who says that Booker, that Booker and Tarker need to be stopped is Relak, the president, because she's a politician, and so she immediately gets the political thing.

1135
01:05:57.480 --> 01:06:00.840
And so now what's happened is what book has done?

1136
01:06:00.900 --> 01:06:03.000
He's had the chance to remake that decision.

1137
01:06:03.059 --> 01:06:07.679
But we now know that that decision is a disastrously bad decision.

1138
01:06:08.039 --> 01:06:10.440
Because now effectively the bad guy.

1139
01:06:10.500 --> 01:06:11.639
Well, good reasons.

1140
01:06:11.760 --> 01:06:12.539
Oh, no.

1141
01:06:12.599 --> 01:06:20.760
No, no, he's not the bad guy, but he's doing something very wrong and he has to be stopped because he's poking something so powerful.

1142
01:06:20.820 --> 01:06:24.239
He's planning to poke some. do you know what I mean?

1143
01:06:24.300 --> 01:06:27.119
Like to, you know, strike out against something so powerful.

1144
01:06:27.179 --> 01:06:30.360
Oh, they just spell this all out to him, explain all this.

1145
01:06:30.599 --> 01:06:33.719
Well, I think they do try.

1146
01:06:33.780 --> 01:06:36.000
Um, but yes.

1147
01:06:36.059 --> 01:06:37.619
So we will find out.

1148
01:06:37.679 --> 01:06:43.800
So we have to, we know where he is now. and we know where the 10 CR.

1149
01:06:43.860 --> 01:06:45.059
Do you know what?

1150
01:06:45.119 --> 01:06:45.480
exciting.

1151
01:06:45.840 --> 01:07:02.099
What pleases me about all of this is that, you know, you and I did ask, we said we'd watch too many great episodes of Star Trek, too many terrible episodes of Star Trek, and we've had a mid-episode of Voyager faces, a mid-episode of DS9, the Muse.

1152
01:07:02.159 --> 01:07:07.559
And I would probably say, this is a fairly mid-episode of Discovery.

1153
01:07:07.619 --> 01:07:09.659
Yeah, I think it's better than either of those.

1154
01:07:09.719 --> 01:07:11.460
No, no, no, it's better than those.

1155
01:07:11.519 --> 01:07:13.559
But I think the bars higher.

1156
01:07:13.619 --> 01:07:14.760
So on Discovery's terms.

1157
01:07:14.820 --> 01:07:15.420
Well, that's right.

1158
01:07:15.420 --> 01:07:16.800
This is kind of meat.

1159
01:07:16.860 --> 01:07:21.480
Yeah, I'm hoping we do get something spectacular next time in either direction.

1160
01:07:21.599 --> 01:07:23.039
Who knows?

1161
01:07:23.099 --> 01:07:26.219
But, and I will say this again and again. was entertaining.

1162
01:07:26.699 --> 01:07:32.639
It just didn't set my world on fire in a way that I I was expecting it to.

1163
01:07:32.699 --> 01:07:35.340
Like I said, it's a gentle run-up.

1164
01:07:35.400 --> 01:07:40.440
We had a massive, massive, massive cliffhanger and a massive break happen.

1165
01:07:40.500 --> 01:07:51.059
And so this is like, like, you know, family or or something like that where we get the chance to just sit back and work out what all of that meant.

1166
01:07:51.179 --> 01:07:57.840
And then we push the plot on in that final scene, to the next thing, where the status quo changes.

1167
01:07:57.840 --> 01:08:11.639
And one of the things the rest of the episodes this season do, and there are 5 more, is each episode is a distinct step along the way to finding out what's going on and who the 10 C are.

1168
01:08:11.699 --> 01:08:36.479
And the episodes follow on from one another, but each one has a very distinct arc. and works on its own in the way that, you know, that one has an arc, something happens in that episode, and it's said in a particular place, and it's trying to do a particular thing, and it isn't one of those episodes where just everyone's subplot is inched long, 6 inches, and you can't really remember what it was about at the end of it.

1169
01:08:36.600 --> 01:08:38.939
We do at least now know what that episode was about.

1170
01:08:39.000 --> 01:08:55.199
What's odd about discovery is in today's television terms, 13 episodes is a long season, a lot of shows, you know, will do 6 episodes or 10, in Star Trek terms, given, you know, the wealth of Star Trek, there is.

1171
01:08:55.260 --> 01:08:57.060
It feels like a short season, doesn't it?

1172
01:08:57.119 --> 01:08:59.579
Because we're so used to 26 episodes.

1173
01:08:59.640 --> 01:09:03.420
Well, was was season one like 17 episodes?

1174
01:09:03.479 --> 01:09:04.079
It was really good.

1175
01:09:04.680 --> 01:09:05.819
Season 5's 10, isn't it?

1176
01:09:05.880 --> 01:09:06.960
Yeah, yeah.

1177
01:09:07.020 --> 01:09:07.380
Yep.

1178
01:09:07.439 --> 01:09:09.899
We're getting shorter.

1179
01:09:09.899 --> 01:09:10.500
We go along.

1180
01:09:10.560 --> 01:09:11.340
Yeah.

1181
01:09:11.399 --> 01:09:15.119
Well, I think that seems to be the number of episodes they're doing for a season of everything now.

1182
01:09:15.180 --> 01:09:17.159
And I think that's that's not bad.

1183
01:09:17.220 --> 01:09:24.960
I think if the sacrifices that the money is spread and it looks as good as it does, because on the whole, discovery just looks stunning.

1184
01:09:25.079 --> 01:09:29.520
I think that's a worthy sacrifice to make to make every episode a piece of cinema.

1185
01:09:29.579 --> 01:09:44.520
Yeah, well, remember, when American TV was sort of churning out 26 episodes of everything a year, and then they would look across at British TV where seasons were like 6 episodes long or whatever, you know, that seemed ridiculous to the Americans.

1186
01:09:44.579 --> 01:09:51.539
But of course, the great thing is that 10 episodes lets you reject a lot of dud ideas.

1187
01:09:51.600 --> 01:09:58.380
And it also, I think, lets you structure a season a little, it's easier to structure a season.

1188
01:09:58.439 --> 01:10:01.859
I hate the term filler to describe episodes.

1189
01:10:01.920 --> 01:10:05.399
I think that no episode ever intends to be filler.

1190
01:10:05.460 --> 01:10:15.239
I think it just ends up being filler, especially when it comes to Kursman Shrek, where every single episode has elements, as we keep saying, that pushes things along, you know?

1191
01:10:15.300 --> 01:10:18.840
There's a character moment that's important to that character arc in the season.

1192
01:10:18.899 --> 01:10:23.460
There's a plot moment that's getting us from A to B. Nothing is completely worthless.

1193
01:10:23.520 --> 01:10:27.899
Not in a way that some standalone 90s strict episodes are.

1194
01:10:28.079 --> 01:10:28.680
But that's the thing.

1195
01:10:28.739 --> 01:10:31.020
They don't have the luxury of throwing stuff out.

1196
01:10:31.079 --> 01:10:33.180
They've got to generate all of these ideas.

1197
01:10:33.239 --> 01:10:36.180
They've got to basically put out an episode every 2 weeks.

1198
01:10:36.300 --> 01:10:40.140
It's, you know, punishing and difficult, I think.

1199
01:10:40.199 --> 01:10:42.840
But there is there is a downside to this approach.

1200
01:10:42.899 --> 01:10:49.560
Well, and that is like, say, Picard series 2, where it's basically telling one story, isn't it?

1201
01:10:49.619 --> 01:10:51.720
We're going back in time, we're doing all this thing.

1202
01:10:51.779 --> 01:11:02.579
And then you have 3 or 4 episodes on the bounce, which feel very similar, you know, and you're like, well, what was distinct about that in the same location with the same characters essentially doing the same thing?

1203
01:11:02.640 --> 01:11:03.840
You know?

1204
01:11:03.899 --> 01:11:10.739
And it does mean that there are highs in these seasons, but it's usually where the big events happen, you know?

1205
01:11:10.800 --> 01:11:12.060
Yeah, yeah.

1206
01:11:12.119 --> 01:11:18.840
I think Picard, like Picard gets it right, I think in series three.

1207
01:11:18.899 --> 01:11:29.460
And even though that's sort of in lots of ways less ambitious and less experimental than the other 2 seasons, it gets it right and it even tries it on hard mode.

1208
01:11:29.520 --> 01:11:37.199
It like gives us episode after episode after episode on the Titan, in the same situation, which we see resolved.

1209
01:11:37.199 --> 01:11:39.119
Racking up the tension.

1210
01:11:39.180 --> 01:11:39.779
Yeah, yeah.

1211
01:11:39.840 --> 01:11:41.640
And that's not the end of it.

1212
01:11:41.699 --> 01:11:51.779
Like, we are on the Titan for most of that season, and yet they kind of managed to make it work, and, and I think they just get good at it.

1213
01:11:51.840 --> 01:11:54.720
And I think that's what happens in discovery series 4 as well.

1214
01:11:54.779 --> 01:12:00.060
Like 90s track, it kind of is determined, your enjoyment.

1215
01:12:00.119 --> 01:12:05.640
This episode is focussing on this character, how invested am I in this particular character.

1216
01:12:05.699 --> 01:12:15.840
Because sometimes, you know, you can live and die on, whether you enjoy something, if it's someone you don't like, you know, or someone you're less interested in, then it's, you know, it's going to be a throwaway one for you.

1217
01:12:15.899 --> 01:12:17.819
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1218
01:12:17.880 --> 01:12:24.300
This wasn't throwaway, but I'm certainly not as invested as you are in Michael and book.

1219
01:12:24.359 --> 01:12:25.859
So those scenes were all right.

1220
01:12:25.920 --> 01:12:30.840
And then everything else around it is sort of leading up to and away from that moment.

1221
01:12:30.899 --> 01:12:32.460
Yeah, yeah.

1222
01:12:32.520 --> 01:12:33.539
It was good.

1223
01:12:33.600 --> 01:12:34.380
It wasn't right.

1224
01:12:34.439 --> 01:12:34.859
It was good.

1225
01:12:34.920 --> 01:12:36.720
I think that's fair.

1226
01:12:43.140 --> 01:12:48.779
All right, it's the end of the episode, and it is time for us to find out what we're going to be doing next time.

1227
01:12:48.779 --> 01:12:58.800
It's my turn on the randomiser after Joe's excellent choice last week, and I am going to tell you what we're going to do.

1228
01:12:58.859 --> 01:13:01.560
We've only done one of these before.

1229
01:13:01.619 --> 01:13:04.439
We're going to do a short trek.

1230
01:13:04.500 --> 01:13:11.819
So these are the 10 minute episodes of Star Trek that accompanied series one and two.

1231
01:13:11.880 --> 01:13:16.500
I can't even remember how many there are of them, but we'll see how we go.

1232
01:13:16.619 --> 01:13:20.760
There's a very weird wild variety of things.

1233
01:13:21.119 --> 01:13:34.859
Okay, so your random Star Trek Short Treks episode is Ask Not, and I think that's the episode where Una and Spock meet for the 1st time on the Enterprise in the Turbo.

1234
01:13:34.920 --> 01:13:36.300
Oh, strange new worlds.

1235
01:13:36.359 --> 01:13:42.300
It is, so it's from season 2 because we've got Spock and Una in Discovery Series 2.

1236
01:13:42.539 --> 01:13:44.579
But we're not going to do that one.

1237
01:13:44.640 --> 01:13:45.840
That's season two, episode three.

1238
01:13:46.380 --> 01:13:48.960
Season one, episode one is the 1st one.

1239
01:13:49.020 --> 01:13:49.859
It called Runaway.

1240
01:13:49.920 --> 01:13:56.520
It's a Tilly episode and it does actually play into series 2, but I'm not going to pick that one.

1241
01:13:56.579 --> 01:13:59.159
Are you going for a particular one then?

1242
01:13:59.220 --> 01:13:59.819
There's not many of these.

1243
01:14:00.000 --> 01:14:03.119
No, I'm tempted by this one.

1244
01:14:03.180 --> 01:14:06.779
The girl who made the stars season two, episode four.

1245
01:14:06.840 --> 01:14:09.060
Super temper, but I'm not going to do it.

1246
01:14:09.119 --> 01:14:11.159
Okay, this is one that I haven't seen.

1247
01:14:11.220 --> 01:14:12.239
How about this?

1248
01:14:12.300 --> 01:14:12.960
Why don't we do this?

1249
01:14:13.020 --> 01:14:18.659
There's one episode four, the escape artist, and it stars Rain Wilson as Harry Maud.

1250
01:14:18.720 --> 01:14:19.560
Okay.

1251
01:14:19.619 --> 01:14:21.600
What if I don't know.

1252
01:14:21.659 --> 01:14:23.460
Yeah, but it's about Harry Maud.

1253
01:14:23.520 --> 01:14:24.779
Should we do it or not?

1254
01:14:24.840 --> 01:14:28.079
Is that leading into that 1st discovery appearance of Harry Mount?

1255
01:14:28.140 --> 01:14:29.520
I think it's after...

1256
01:14:29.579 --> 01:14:30.600
Oh, I'm not sure.

1257
01:14:30.600 --> 01:14:34.319
Oh, after he goes off with... that would be great.

1258
01:14:34.380 --> 01:14:39.000
I don't know, but that would be great after he goes off with Mrs. Mudd.

1259
01:14:39.060 --> 01:14:41.100
The funniest episode.

1260
01:14:41.159 --> 01:14:41.520
Yeah.

1261
01:14:41.520 --> 01:14:43.380
Well, yes, Harry Martin.

1262
01:14:43.439 --> 01:14:44.520
I think we should do it.

1263
01:14:44.579 --> 01:14:46.739
No, I've pressed the button again.

1264
01:14:46.800 --> 01:14:48.359
Oh, there's only 10 years.

1265
01:14:48.359 --> 01:14:50.220
I know.

1266
01:14:50.279 --> 01:14:51.239
This is the one we're doing.

1267
01:14:51.359 --> 01:14:52.619
We're doing the trouble with Edward.

1268
01:14:52.680 --> 01:14:56.579
Season two, episode two, 1st broadcast on Wednesday, the ninth of October.

1269
01:14:56.640 --> 01:14:57.840
2019.

1270
01:14:58.020 --> 01:14:59.640
Yeah, I absolutely.

1271
01:14:59.640 --> 01:15:01.199
And it stars John Benjamin.

1272
01:15:01.199 --> 01:15:03.420
Very, very fun.

1273
01:15:03.420 --> 01:15:04.619
Bob's Burgers.

1274
01:15:04.680 --> 01:15:05.640
What do you reckon?

1275
01:15:05.699 --> 01:15:08.340
I think we just do. that's a brilliant idea.

1276
01:15:08.399 --> 01:15:10.619
Yeah, that's and it's hilarious as well.

1277
01:15:10.739 --> 01:15:12.180
It is pretty great.

1278
01:15:12.239 --> 01:15:13.020
It is pretty good.

1279
01:15:13.079 --> 01:15:13.920
All right, let's do it.

1280
01:15:22.979 --> 01:15:33.000
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley, where online at untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1281
01:15:33.060 --> 01:15:38.699
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lam.

1282
01:15:38.760 --> 01:15:44.039
This episode was recorded on the 13th of February 2024 and released on the 16th of February.

1283
01:15:44.100 --> 01:15:48.300
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Short Treks, The Trouble with Edward.

1284
01:16:06.420 --> 01:16:07.680
All right, what do you think?

1285
01:16:07.739 --> 01:16:09.359
We should... roll...

1286
01:16:09.359 --> 01:16:10.739
I need to run soon.

1287
01:16:10.800 --> 01:16:12.239
So yeah, let's let's roll.

1288
01:16:12.300 --> 01:16:13.560
It's known nearly 10.

1289
01:16:13.859 --> 01:16:14.460
What is it?

1290
01:16:14.520 --> 01:16:15.420
Nearly 10 o'clock.

1291
01:16:15.479 --> 01:16:18.840
I think they start at 10, but I'll get there about...

1292
01:16:24.960 --> 01:16:27.479
There's an episode coming up called the Galactic Barrier.

1293
01:16:27.600 --> 01:16:29.460
Well, of discovery.

1294
01:16:29.520 --> 01:16:37.020
And you're, yeah, no, just like it's 2 episodes from this one, because they have to go outside the galaxy.

1295
01:16:37.079 --> 01:16:44.279
And so there's the galactic barrier, which is in where no man has gone before.

1296
01:16:44.340 --> 01:16:45.300
There's a big energy.

1297
01:16:46.079 --> 01:16:52.500
Big energy thing around the galaxy, which is like super dumb and not real or anything like that.

1298
01:16:52.560 --> 01:16:56.159
Um, and it's, it's from the 2nd ever episode.

1299
01:16:56.159 --> 01:16:58.439
It's time, which, of course it is.

1300
01:16:58.500 --> 01:17:02.039
I know, they just take any old crap, try and make it work.

1301
01:17:02.100 --> 01:17:03.000
The galactic bar.

1302
01:17:03.060 --> 01:17:03.960
We got to work within that.

1303
01:17:04.859 --> 01:17:06.060
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1304
01:17:06.119 --> 01:17:11.520
They could have ignored it easily if they'd wanted to, but they absolutely didn't want to, and I love them for that.

1305
01:17:11.880 --> 01:17:14.520
Did you see the picture for a matter of time?

1306
01:17:15.180 --> 01:17:16.920
On the website?

1307
01:17:17.399 --> 01:17:19.380
I can't remember what it was.

1308
01:17:19.439 --> 01:17:22.319
Well, I did see it because I took the to the link.

1309
01:17:22.380 --> 01:17:23.819
Was it?

1310
01:17:23.819 --> 01:17:25.380
It was in the shuttle, wasn't it?

1311
01:17:25.439 --> 01:17:25.979
Yeah.

1312
01:17:26.039 --> 01:17:29.039
Yeah, yeah, the shuttle with the with the hologchromatic wallpaper.

1313
01:17:29.100 --> 01:17:30.840
They chose specially for you.

1314
01:17:34.260 --> 01:17:42.300
Okay, one condition is, I know you're choosing this time, but the one condition is, it's even really terrible, it's great, all right?

1315
01:17:42.359 --> 01:17:43.500
Okay.

1316
01:17:43.500 --> 01:17:45.060
We can somehow find something.