WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 22:12:08

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, we are back for our second muse based episode in the last few

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months.

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So towards the end of last year, we did Voyager series six, episode

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22, which was called Muse.

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And I have to confess that during the kind of editing process, I

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couldn't remember what it was called, Muse, or the Muse, and that

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changed a few times, and I finally got it ironed out and got the

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right time.

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Yeah.

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And that was episode 87.

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I'm untitled Star Trek Project.

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Now, this is episode 96, and we're doing an episode called The

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Muse, which is Star Trek Deep Space 9 series 4, episode 21, and I

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gather that this is not well regarded.

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Is that right?

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Not by anybody, I don't think.

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It sort of lingers down the bottom of DS9 poles when they're

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talking about their overall series.

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It's certainly at the bottom of any series 4 poll.

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And reading memory alpha.

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I don't think the production team have many kind of things to say

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about this either.

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There's a very amusing anecdote there about how most script

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meetings tend to be sort of 3 days long for an episode.

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And this had such a trouble gestation. 6 days it took for them to

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beat this script into shape.

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The longest in DS9's entire run.

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But yet, it's not the worst episode of Deep Space 9 that we've

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done.

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What do you think is?

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Oh, I'm dramatically thinking about this persona.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Because this had a lovely clock in it.

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It did have a lovely clock in it.

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This is 2 plots that are pretty thin. and they're so thin actually

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that they find a bit over which one they're going to make the A

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plot and which one they're going to make the B plot.

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So originally this was an episode about Loaxana and Odo, which was

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called playing house.

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She was going to turn up pregnant and it was going to be his

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baby.

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That was the original idea.

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I mean, I'm glad they didn't go with that. kind of terrible.

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Because what?

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Because he melted in her lap or something in the lift the previous

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year.

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Let's not go there.

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Yuck.

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And then it becomes the muse after the other plot.

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So we will call the Muse plot, the A plot, and the Luaksan and Odo

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plot, the B plot.

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And I actually thought, though they were thin, they weren't

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offensive, and they weren't kind of tedious.

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They're both sort of reasonably short.

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It a 45 minute episode, you know, each one clocks in at a bit over

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20 minutes.

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I went into this expecting for it to live up to its poor

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reputation and for this to be really, like, home got just

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destroyed bad.

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And I came out of here thinking, oh, I was quite entertained for

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that 45 minutes.

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And that's all right.

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Star Trek is okay if it does say, you know, because there's plenty

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of episodes where we don't come out. 45, we're just thinking

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that.

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Like I thought this was better than last week's faces, for

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instance, you know, which is a high concept Voyager episode, which

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I imagine everyone involved is sort of reasonably proud of.

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Here, I think this one's lifted by just an amazing guest

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performance.

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Like, incredible.

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Yeah, gee she's great.

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So this is Meg Foster is Anaya.

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And I said last week, I think in last week's episode that she was

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Cagney and Cagney and Lacey, but what I didn't know is that Cagney

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and Lacey was a mid-season replacement that only ran for 6

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episodes in its 1st season and she only played Cagney in those 6

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episodes before she was let go for being too aggressive and

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potentially lesbian.

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So, yeah, I know.

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Yeah, going for that reason. that's right.

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That's what I should have kept her on.

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Well, I mean, yes.

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So she was like, go, she is 47, I think, when this episode airs

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and she is absolutely sexy as hell.

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Holy crap. sexuality, doesn't she?

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She really does.

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In fact, Rede H.

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Chivaria says, Meg Foster was perfection, and I receive a bear

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says she's so seductive and interesting.

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You know, you can fall inside those eyes.

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So they were clearly all on the set, a little bit bewitched by Meg

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Foster while she was shooting this.

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There's always a problem, I think, when the writers introduce a

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character who's a writer, right?

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in their TV show because they start to kind of show their ass a

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bit when that happens.

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And so this is an episode where a very, very beautiful woman

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seduces the writer and gives him neck massages and all of that

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sort of stuff while he's writing and fawns over him and says how

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wonderful he is and ensures that they achieve sort of

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immortality.

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So it is a little bit of a writerly wank fantasy.

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It's like my TV treatment, which is about a Latin teacher who

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solves crimes and occasionally overthrows capitalism.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Like it is absolutely a thing.

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And Jake is always a little bit like that.

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He's a writer and we get to discuss rightly concerns on the show

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and because all of the people writing it a writer is that becomes

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a sort of thing.

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But I thought this was great.

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I don't lean into that as much as I probably could, do they?

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This is the sort of stuff they lie to, you know, some bewitching

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woman comes along and can sense his astonishing writing talent and

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start stroking him seductively.

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As you say, the writers are there writing this stuff going.

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Oh, yeah.

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This should happen in real life.

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Yeah.

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Does anyone have a big Foster's number?

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she is terrific in this.

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But I do think the other plot as well.

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I'm not the biggest fan of Luaxana Troy.

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I think those episodes can be hit and miss.

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We've done one before, and it was definitely a miss.

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That was a very bad episode, but she's not normally that bad.

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I mean, that was an extremely poor episode.

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That was manhunt from series 2 of Star Trek the Next Generation

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when the writer strikes on and they're just trying to fill time

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until the closing credits can happen.

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What's great about it, though, is she she bowls into TNG and

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brings a bit of fucking life to the show, you know?

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And she ain't interested in protocol and having to stick up her

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arse and all of this.

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So naturally they all sort of hate her a bit because she's she's

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enjoying her life and they're not.

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She comes on to DS9 and they can't really do the same sort of

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thing because everyone is a bit more relaxed on this show.

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So instead they pair her up with Odo.

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So they do the forsaken in series one, which starts out as a

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Luaxana Troy pursues Odo episode, and you're thinking, oh, well, we

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know how this is going to go.

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And then they wind up stuck in a lift together.

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And ultimately becomes something very moving where Odo, for the

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1st time in the entire series, opens up to somebody.

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And she basically, she says to him, you know, I really like you

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how you are, and no one's ever said that to him before.

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So suddenly there's a link between the 2 of them.

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Unfortunately, they then start to undo all that good work in

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series 3 where they bring her on back onto the station and she's

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got a sex virus.

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Obviously every show's got to do a sex virus episode.

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It's given in Star Trek.

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It's like Sarek, isn't it?

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Like, but it's... a voracious appetite for Odo extends to the

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entire crew and suddenly you've got Jake Sisco coming onto Kira

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and Dax and Cisco are fucking and all this crazy stuff's going

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on.

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And they sort of lose the way of the Odo Luaxana relationship.

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But I think they address that here.

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And I think that part of this episode where it's just 2 adults

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that have forged mature friendship together.

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Leaning on each other.

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I thought that worked really, really well here.

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I'm not sure the writing because it's a very sitcom episode in the

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terms of he has to get married to her and all this crazy stuff

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that's going on.

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But I believe the performances.

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I believe they sell the friendship in the performances.

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I don't think any of this is convincing, but I believe the

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relationship.

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See, I think that the director doesn't quite know what to do here

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and I think... himself.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Well, probably talk about it going in, but I think that what

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happens is we start by expecting what we got in the forsaken or

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say, in cost of living, you know, cost of living in Star Trek, the

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Next Generation has her kind of trying to escape her husband who

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is, you know, controlling and wants to.

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She does fall down this rabbit hole quite a bit, doesn't she?

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Yeah.

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So it's the same sort of thing.

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And so we're expecting a sitcom and we get, that's how Odo is

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playing it initially, is that he thinks that she's going to come

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onto him.

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And, and that kind of is interesting when it then gives way to

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their kind of relationship.

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But I think what that B plot really wants is we should be

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interpreting what's going on that way.

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It's a sitcom, it's like Santa Troy, you know, wacky things happen

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and there's sort of comedy.

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But what we then discover is that the reason that Odo is trying to

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avoid her is that he's in love with her, and then at the wedding

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when he declares how important she is to him.

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He's telling the truth because he really, really is in love with

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her.

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And he means all of that stuff.

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I know there's the inference in the writing, but it's really there

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in the performance.

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It's how Renee plays that scene.

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And I actually had forgotten that she can't read him, and that's

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one of the things because what I thought would have been perfect

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is, of course, if she had realised that he was telling the truth

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but the more tragic thing is that she doesn't know that.

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And so when she goes back to Beta Zed, He's heartbroken because

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his true love has gone.

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And I think they don't kind of want to properly commit to that

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possibly because they see Kira and Odo getting together later.

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Just coming up the track now.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Whereas I think that this works really well.

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We think that it's a sitcom.

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We misinterpret Odo's behaviour, then we discover why he's really

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behaving like this, and it's actually really sort of

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heartbreaking.

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And it's agreeable, but I don't think it's quite as good as it

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could have been if it had properly committed to that.

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Certainly not to like the heights of the best of Odo, Kira, that

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we can before and after, yeah.

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I do really like I love the honesty between the 2 of them though.

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And I like how, because Star Trek usually does, isn't this blunt.

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I like it when he she goes into his quarters and she's fallen

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asleep in his lap and he just goes, there's nothing wrong with

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your replicator, is there?

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And she goes, no.

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And at the end, I like the fact that she comes in and she goes

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look, you're not in love with me, so I'm going home.

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And it's just so to the point.

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And Star Trek doesn't do this.

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It's quite refreshing.

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I think they discover in half a life. in Star Trek the Next

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Generation, how good Majel is.

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And when you don't just give her sort of auntie maime stuff to do

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when you give her proper serious things to do, she actually really

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rises to it.

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And the Forsaken, I think, is amazing for that reason.

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Remember she takes the wig off.

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Like it's like she takes...

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Yeah, yeah.

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She takes that mask off.

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She says it's my hair.

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She goes, sometimes we all have to wear masks, so don't.

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Yeah.

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I so gorgeous.

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It's it's so moving.

250
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And she's terrific in this.

251
00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:26.279
And this is her last on-screen appearance in Star Trek.

252
00:12:26.340 --> 00:12:29.879
Oh, I don't, I wonder if they wanted us to do more, but I don't

253
00:12:29.879 --> 00:12:33.480
think she was very happy with how DS9 was progressing and the wolf

254
00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:36.600
footing was going, and she was quite vocal about Gene wouldn't

255
00:12:36.600 --> 00:12:37.860
have been happy about it.

256
00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:41.279
So I think maybe it was her decision not to do it, which is a

257
00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:43.980
shame because I think she, there was probably another. they could

258
00:12:43.980 --> 00:12:44.759
have developed this further.

259
00:12:44.820 --> 00:12:46.799
Yeah, but I thought that was good.

260
00:12:46.860 --> 00:12:49.799
Like, I didn't think it was a good ending and I thought it was a

261
00:12:49.799 --> 00:12:52.440
kind of unsatisfactory ending in some ways.

262
00:12:52.500 --> 00:12:53.879
It leaves something unresolved.

263
00:12:53.940 --> 00:12:57.059
It's a bit like life rather than just sort of tying everything up

264
00:12:57.059 --> 00:12:58.320
in a neat little bow.

265
00:12:58.379 --> 00:13:01.740
And certainly her performance in this episode is really good as

266
00:13:01.740 --> 00:13:01.980
well.

267
00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:06.240
Well, that's that concludes our very positive reading on the

268
00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:06.600
muse.

269
00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:08.519
We'll see you next week, actually.

270
00:13:09.240 --> 00:13:13.740
Look, it's no a night in Sick Bay, but it is pretty good.

271
00:13:15.179 --> 00:13:17.580
One last thing before we go in.

272
00:13:17.639 --> 00:13:22.620
I would like you to please keep an eye out for John Paul Loner, who

273
00:13:22.620 --> 00:13:26.039
won a walk-on role for designing the winning makeup for Alien of

274
00:13:26.039 --> 00:13:26.759
the week this week.

275
00:13:26.879 --> 00:13:30.360
I'm going to describe what he looks like because he's only in the

276
00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:32.340
1st scene, right, coming out.

277
00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:33.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

278
00:13:33.419 --> 00:13:35.340
He's got a sort of a head like an arse.

279
00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:38.460
So he's designing them, you know, the scan of sort of Ferengi

280
00:13:38.460 --> 00:13:38.820
head.

281
00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:42.179
We used to say bum headed alien, a BHA.

282
00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:42.779
Like.

283
00:13:43.139 --> 00:13:48.240
The bum part is blue. sort of wrapped around it is sort of like a

284
00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:52.200
weird sort of skull shape and a bit that sort of comes around his

285
00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:52.799
nose as well.

286
00:13:52.860 --> 00:13:53.580
Okay.

287
00:13:53.639 --> 00:13:55.620
Anyway, keep an eye out for him, all right?

288
00:13:55.679 --> 00:13:58.019
Because he's spent some time designing this makeup that is now

289
00:13:58.019 --> 00:13:59.039
having to wear on set.

290
00:13:59.279 --> 00:14:03.779
Also bafflingly, this is nominated for an Emmy for costuming.

291
00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:08.580
I was watching this going, yeah, Muse, I would, I would understand

292
00:14:08.580 --> 00:14:09.600
the Muse.

293
00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:10.379
The Muse.

294
00:14:10.379 --> 00:14:13.440
Did they get the wrong episode?

295
00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:17.519
I think Muse won an Emmy, didn't it, for costume as well?

296
00:14:17.580 --> 00:14:20.639
I think it got a nomination for costume, yeah.

297
00:14:20.700 --> 00:14:21.240
I think so.

298
00:14:21.299 --> 00:14:21.899
Yeah.

299
00:14:21.960 --> 00:14:25.200
Wait till you see what this fella's wearing in the alien makeup.

300
00:14:25.379 --> 00:14:27.179
See white.

301
00:14:27.240 --> 00:14:28.919
Okay, let's do it.

302
00:14:28.980 --> 00:14:29.340
Come on.

303
00:14:29.399 --> 00:14:30.840
Let us do it.

304
00:14:30.899 --> 00:14:31.679
I'll count us in.

305
00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:38.940
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

306
00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:43.980
I thought this was an amazingly quick opening.

307
00:14:44.039 --> 00:14:46.620
It's very strange, isn't it, not having a captain's log or

308
00:14:46.620 --> 00:14:47.220
anything like that.

309
00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:48.779
And it's not anywhere along.

310
00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:51.299
Why a few designs that forego the captain's log, though?

311
00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:53.580
Because I think a lot of disk 9 is day in the life on the

312
00:14:53.580 --> 00:14:53.879
station.

313
00:14:53.940 --> 00:14:55.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

314
00:14:55.740 --> 00:15:03.480
So we have Jake, and Sirik Lofton is 17 at this point. cute as a

315
00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:04.259
bum, isn't he?

316
00:15:04.259 --> 00:15:04.620
It's cute.

317
00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:06.360
There is no, that's a bowling.

318
00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:07.559
No, that's a bowling with a wig.

319
00:15:08.039 --> 00:15:11.159
Yeah, there's Cliff bowl board?

320
00:15:11.220 --> 00:15:11.820
I wanna know that.

321
00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:13.320
Is Cliff Bowl board?

322
00:15:13.379 --> 00:15:14.100
Bald?

323
00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:16.559
I'm not sure Why'd you ask?

324
00:15:16.620 --> 00:15:19.500
Well, just the Bolians were sort of famously bald.

325
00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:22.080
There he is.

326
00:15:22.139 --> 00:15:22.740
Oh, there he is.

327
00:15:22.740 --> 00:15:23.700
Next to Meg Foster.

328
00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:25.200
Oh, he only had a very brief shot.

329
00:15:25.259 --> 00:15:27.000
He wasn't much of an actor. had to cut away.

330
00:15:27.059 --> 00:15:28.620
Look at her eyes.

331
00:15:28.679 --> 00:15:30.059
I know.

332
00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:32.039
I think the forehead's a bit of a shame.

333
00:15:32.039 --> 00:15:35.759
And I, you know, kind of kept thinking, why did we have to stick a

334
00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:37.320
fucking latex for it on it?

335
00:15:37.379 --> 00:15:38.820
Can't she just be an alien without that?

336
00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:44.279
I mean, she's still absolutely stunning and incredibly sexy all

337
00:15:44.279 --> 00:15:44.879
the way through.

338
00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:49.259
I said this to you the other day and I'm going to say it to you

339
00:15:49.259 --> 00:15:49.500
again.

340
00:15:49.559 --> 00:15:53.519
We spend a fair bit of time on the promenade in this episode and I

341
00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:54.360
just love that set.

342
00:15:54.419 --> 00:15:56.820
I love that set and how they fill it full of funky aliens.

343
00:15:56.879 --> 00:15:57.899
Yeah, yeah.

344
00:15:57.960 --> 00:15:59.460
Never quite know what you're going to see next.

345
00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:03.179
Uh-oh, here's mislikes Anna Troy, and she is pregnant.

346
00:16:03.299 --> 00:16:05.519
Yeah, yeah.

347
00:16:05.940 --> 00:16:08.639
Oh, now you're right.

348
00:16:08.700 --> 00:16:12.179
This absolutely feels like DS not in the sitcom, you know, oh, oh

349
00:16:12.179 --> 00:16:13.259
no, I'm pregnant.

350
00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:15.840
Cue the music.

351
00:16:15.899 --> 00:16:18.120
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely it is.

352
00:16:18.659 --> 00:16:23.279
Now, has that obeyed Nathan Bottomley, pre-title sequence rule

353
00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:23.580
number one?

354
00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:29.159
Well, it has introduced both plots, and we've gone just from one

355
00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:29.940
plot to another.

356
00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:31.500
It's a fairly short sequence.

357
00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:36.000
So we establish that he's a writer and we get that eye contact.

358
00:16:36.059 --> 00:16:38.820
Like he's looking at her trying to theorise about who she is.

359
00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:42.419
Remember, he's making characters up for his writing and they make

360
00:16:42.419 --> 00:16:46.139
eye contact like she sees him and he looks away.

361
00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:47.039
And so that's a thing.

362
00:16:47.100 --> 00:16:50.220
And then, of course, we get the big, I'm pregnant reveal, which

363
00:16:50.220 --> 00:16:51.120
never gets explained.

364
00:16:51.179 --> 00:16:54.600
She does say it's a miracle, which I think is rather delightful.

365
00:16:54.659 --> 00:16:57.299
You see the beginning of that title sequence there.

366
00:16:57.360 --> 00:17:00.240
You know, I always forget because DS9 is usually a thriving hub of

367
00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:03.299
activity, just sort of how lonely out in space they are.

368
00:17:03.299 --> 00:17:06.420
At the beginning of the Tarticans, we sort of start on stars and

369
00:17:06.420 --> 00:17:09.180
then come around and DS9 is like far in the distance.

370
00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:09.539
Yeah.

371
00:17:09.539 --> 00:17:12.000
You forget, don't they, that they're out, they're out on the

372
00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:13.019
frontier on their own.

373
00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:17.160
Well, I mean, that was what the, that was what it was telling

374
00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:18.539
earlier, wasn't it?

375
00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:20.700
It's not eventually what the show goes with.

376
00:17:20.759 --> 00:17:23.759
But that's the original...

377
00:17:23.819 --> 00:17:26.279
I think it's a shame that they didn't leave it by Bajor, though

378
00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:29.279
because I just like having, every time they do it, we go back to

379
00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:31.980
the occupation and things like that and the planet's there, it's

380
00:17:31.980 --> 00:17:33.420
just more visual. looks really good.

381
00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:36.539
Well, you get the sun, the light from the sun coming through the

382
00:17:36.539 --> 00:17:37.079
windows and stuff.

383
00:17:37.259 --> 00:17:40.440
I think it's cheaper. not to do that.

384
00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:45.059
I think you could be right. think that's why they do it.

385
00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:48.119
Oh, okay, right.

386
00:17:48.180 --> 00:17:51.059
Yeah, it is a very tall tile sequence, though, isn't it?

387
00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:53.160
Let's be honest.

388
00:17:53.220 --> 00:17:55.019
I'll do certainly not. skip it.

389
00:17:55.079 --> 00:17:55.980
Prodigy.

390
00:17:56.819 --> 00:18:00.480
Even when they've upped the tempo, you know, season 4 onwards

391
00:18:01.019 --> 00:18:03.420
marginally, not a lot.

392
00:18:04.259 --> 00:18:07.740
There's more little things, and there's a bit of a bass going

393
00:18:07.740 --> 00:18:08.160
behind it.

394
00:18:08.220 --> 00:18:10.920
Yeah, it's a miracle. miracle.

395
00:18:10.980 --> 00:18:12.960
I never thought I could have another baby.

396
00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:15.900
After the last one, you should have stopped there.

397
00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:18.599
Oh, no, come on, then, Siana, she's fantastic.

398
00:18:19.380 --> 00:18:23.640
Are the other guest star who deserves a mention too is Michael and

399
00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:24.180
Sarah?

400
00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:25.920
What else has he done?

401
00:18:25.980 --> 00:18:28.140
So he is Kang.

402
00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:31.259
And so of course he is.

403
00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:32.460
Yeah, yeah.

404
00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:37.500
And so he was incredibly attractive, again, in his 40s.

405
00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:39.119
He's 73 or something here.

406
00:18:39.180 --> 00:18:41.700
This is his last Star Trek 2.

407
00:18:41.880 --> 00:18:43.980
Um, and he's been Kang.

408
00:18:44.039 --> 00:18:45.720
He is dead at this point, isn't he, Kang?

409
00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:46.920
in Deep Sea.

410
00:18:46.980 --> 00:18:48.480
Yeah, yeah, he died in blood oath.

411
00:18:48.539 --> 00:18:51.960
Yeah, so there's 2 episodes with him in it.

412
00:18:52.140 --> 00:18:57.660
Oh, so this, he's a day of the dove in, he's finished off, both

413
00:18:57.660 --> 00:19:00.539
Michael and Sarah and Major L. Barrett.

414
00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:00.900
Yeah.

415
00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:03.420
They thought, this is as bad as this is going to get.

416
00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:05.099
I'm not going to get a worse episode than this.

417
00:19:05.160 --> 00:19:06.299
I'm not doing any more.

418
00:19:07.019 --> 00:19:12.119
Oh, I hate these these alien civilisations with bizarre rules.

419
00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:18.180
Please don't tell me there is there is a race on the earth where

420
00:19:18.180 --> 00:19:22.019
men bring up the boys and ladies bring up the girls.

421
00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:24.720
No, but I mean, that's not super dumb.

422
00:19:24.779 --> 00:19:25.740
Like, I think that's okay.

423
00:19:25.799 --> 00:19:30.660
I think the the most delightfully hilarious thing about the

424
00:19:30.660 --> 00:19:36.539
civilisation is where you have to stand up as the bridegroom and

425
00:19:36.539 --> 00:19:39.059
explain why you want.

426
00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:39.960
Do you know what I mean?

427
00:19:40.019 --> 00:19:44.460
Like, it's a custom exactly designed to make that plot work.

428
00:19:44.579 --> 00:19:47.519
But it gives us quite a good scene, I think.

429
00:19:47.579 --> 00:19:50.700
Oh, it's a great scene because you've got all the crews standing

430
00:19:50.700 --> 00:19:51.660
around baffled.

431
00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:55.019
This is the 1st I've heard that Odo's getting married and then he

432
00:19:55.019 --> 00:19:57.779
does his 1st declaration and we'll get there, but he just sort of

433
00:19:57.779 --> 00:19:59.940
goes, Oh, marry me, Luaxana.

434
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:02.940
Like it just hasn't, there's no effort in it whatsoever.

435
00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:07.019
I love how she calls him a dear sweet man.

436
00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:09.660
It's kind of funny, isn't it?

437
00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:10.920
Because he's pushing her away.

438
00:20:10.980 --> 00:20:15.420
And I think that we read that as him not wanting to get into a

439
00:20:15.420 --> 00:20:17.339
sitcom plot with her.

440
00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:18.119
Yeah.

441
00:20:18.180 --> 00:20:19.440
Every time I see you.

442
00:20:19.500 --> 00:20:21.359
I end up in one of these...

443
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:22.980
Some ludicrous shit complot happens.

444
00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:28.079
But then I like the idea that the reason he's doing, he's pushing

445
00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:31.079
her away is because he's in love with her and it's kind of painful

446
00:20:31.079 --> 00:20:32.220
to not acknowledge that.

447
00:20:32.279 --> 00:20:36.240
The scenes that I figured that would be painful to watch again

448
00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:40.079
because I remember them from before, are the ones where he lets

449
00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:43.140
her into his quarters and loves her being there.

450
00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:44.940
And I really love those scenes this time.

451
00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:46.680
They were really good, weren't they?

452
00:20:46.740 --> 00:20:49.619
That game I was telling you about where he shapes you into

453
00:20:49.619 --> 00:20:51.480
something and she's got to try and find him.

454
00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:53.579
I mean, that's what we play, right?

455
00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:56.039
He's Meg Foster.

456
00:20:56.099 --> 00:20:59.880
And look, like she barely opens her mouth.

457
00:20:59.940 --> 00:21:03.059
She's so, I mean, the high forehead is all a little bit

458
00:21:03.059 --> 00:21:06.240
unfortunate because she's a Star Trek alien or whatever, but it's

459
00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:07.319
also stately.

460
00:21:07.380 --> 00:21:10.440
Like she's really kind of glamorous.

461
00:21:10.500 --> 00:21:13.140
But look, she's like the voice.

462
00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:15.960
She overcomes the makeup, doesn't she?

463
00:21:16.019 --> 00:21:18.839
The trouble with the makeup as well is, and then now to give him

464
00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:19.559
these massive wigs.

465
00:21:19.619 --> 00:21:22.019
Yeah, you know, it's a compensate.

466
00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:25.440
But her deportment, how she carries herself.

467
00:21:25.500 --> 00:21:27.359
The smile.

468
00:21:27.420 --> 00:21:29.460
But look, she barely opens her mouth.

469
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:32.099
There's something, something there.

470
00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:36.119
And like we get a bit of acknowledgement from the set that they're

471
00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:42.599
you know, that he might be, because he's 17, you know, he's tall

472
00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:47.400
and and stuff and handsome, he's a young man, but he hasn't had

473
00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:48.539
sex at this point, has he?

474
00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:49.019
No.

475
00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:52.740
Uh, he's had girlfriends, but no, he's a girlfriend's male, maybe

476
00:21:52.740 --> 00:21:57.240
but, but, but she's a much older woman, like she's 30 years older

477
00:21:57.240 --> 00:22:04.079
than him and she brings him into her sexy kind of, you know, uh

478
00:22:04.859 --> 00:22:09.779
Sorry, I'm doing, I'm watching the depth perception in this scene

479
00:22:09.779 --> 00:22:12.599
here, because you can see the promenade behind and the extras

480
00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:13.319
going about their business.

481
00:22:13.380 --> 00:22:14.099
Yeah.

482
00:22:14.099 --> 00:22:16.980
And that alien that we saw at the beginning. was walked past 3

483
00:22:16.980 --> 00:22:17.519
times already.

484
00:22:17.579 --> 00:22:19.140
He's just going back and forth.

485
00:22:19.799 --> 00:22:24.119
What I like about this is this is about the promenade.

486
00:22:24.180 --> 00:22:27.059
This is a conversation about what you were talking about because

487
00:22:27.059 --> 00:22:31.319
she's talking about the Cardassian architect who has this

488
00:22:31.319 --> 00:22:33.599
influence on Cardassian style.

489
00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:37.440
And that conversation, which sounds a little bit crap, is actually

490
00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:38.400
quite interesting.

491
00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:42.900
And it introduces the idea that she's going to kill that she kills

492
00:22:42.900 --> 00:22:44.460
the person she inspires.

493
00:22:44.579 --> 00:22:47.640
Yeah, because... get a point.

494
00:22:47.700 --> 00:22:49.140
Yeah, it's pretty good.

495
00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:54.480
I do like the idea, the idea that, you know, what's better to live

496
00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:57.960
a long, unfulfilled life or a short life where you make an impact

497
00:22:57.960 --> 00:22:59.279
on the universe.

498
00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:02.819
I think most of us would choose a shorter life, actually.

499
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:06.720
Well, but the funny thing is, of course, that it is like writing

500
00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:08.940
is pouring your heart and soul into something.

501
00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:09.900
Do you know what I mean?

502
00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:10.980
It's a very hard job.

503
00:23:11.099 --> 00:23:13.680
And you kind of think, yeah, like there are paramedics and coal

504
00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:16.920
miners and stuff and you can just fuck off, you know, like, you're

505
00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:19.799
writing this. why writing seems so heroic here.

506
00:23:19.859 --> 00:23:26.099
Um, I mean, you know, um, wondering what I know, I would, would

507
00:23:26.099 --> 00:23:29.880
say to you and me, Joe and Nathan, such insightful, critical

508
00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:30.539
analysis.

509
00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:36.480
Oh, dear.

510
00:23:36.539 --> 00:23:39.299
I mean, she couldn't possibly make our podcasting better, Nathan.

511
00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:39.900
She couldn't do it.

512
00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:42.420
No, no, no, wouldn't be possible.

513
00:23:44.519 --> 00:23:46.559
She has techniques.

514
00:23:46.619 --> 00:23:50.400
Like, there's also, I've watched a sort of mid-nineties telly

515
00:23:50.400 --> 00:23:52.799
lately, because I'm doing a abovey podcast as well.

516
00:23:52.859 --> 00:23:57.359
And there are some really awkward episodes where older characters

517
00:23:57.359 --> 00:24:00.960
are coming on to younger characters or supposedly younger

518
00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:01.380
characters.

519
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:03.900
I didn't get that sense at all here.

520
00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:07.259
I didn't get the sense that she was looking to have sex with him

521
00:24:07.259 --> 00:24:08.400
or anything like that, you know.

522
00:24:08.460 --> 00:24:11.220
She was just after his creative juices.

523
00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:13.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

524
00:24:13.140 --> 00:24:15.420
But it is kind of impossible to read.

525
00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:19.440
Like she's, you know, smelling his hair and stuff like that. you

526
00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:19.799
know what I mean?

527
00:24:19.859 --> 00:24:21.180
Like, it is really central.

528
00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:22.440
Did you find it icky?

529
00:24:22.500 --> 00:24:25.799
I didn't know, no, because I just thought she was sexy as hell and

530
00:24:25.799 --> 00:24:29.819
was kind of thinking, you know, and he was into it, like he didn't

531
00:24:29.819 --> 00:24:31.200
seem to be...

532
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:34.200
I do wonder how this was played, though, you know, if it had been

533
00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:34.680
I don't know.

534
00:24:34.740 --> 00:24:40.619
A 17 year old Naomi, Naomi Wildman and an older man stroking her

535
00:24:40.619 --> 00:24:41.279
hair, you know.

536
00:24:41.339 --> 00:24:41.940
Yeah.

537
00:24:41.940 --> 00:24:42.599
Yeah.

538
00:24:42.660 --> 00:24:44.819
This is a beautiful scene too.

539
00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:46.500
Okay, this is great.

540
00:24:47.220 --> 00:24:52.019
I know, but it's him as dad, and I just love seeing him as dad.

541
00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:54.960
Like, and there's a couple of scenes, but that makes him even

542
00:24:54.960 --> 00:24:56.160
hotter, Nathan, if I want it.

543
00:24:56.220 --> 00:24:57.779
Oh, I agree.

544
00:24:57.839 --> 00:24:58.980
But they're beautiful.

545
00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:03.119
Like, it is that thing about how demonstrative they are and how

546
00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:05.880
physically, do you know what I mean?

547
00:25:05.940 --> 00:25:07.440
How physically demonstrative they are.

548
00:25:07.500 --> 00:25:08.400
He kisses him.

549
00:25:08.460 --> 00:25:13.319
He demands a hug before he leaves, you know, like it's just, look

550
00:25:13.319 --> 00:25:17.759
something very right with the relationships on this show, didn't

551
00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:18.000
he?

552
00:25:18.059 --> 00:25:20.880
He just claps him on the cheeks and leaves.

553
00:25:20.940 --> 00:25:23.819
It's beautiful Oh, I don't think they've seen lands.

554
00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:26.579
So everyone's sitting around depressed.

555
00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:27.660
Really?

556
00:25:27.660 --> 00:25:29.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

557
00:25:29.579 --> 00:25:30.180
Yeah.

558
00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:31.440
Just nice too.

559
00:25:31.799 --> 00:25:34.079
They're ridiculous frocks.

560
00:25:34.140 --> 00:25:35.279
Yeah, that's right.

561
00:25:35.339 --> 00:25:39.059
They're ridiculous mediaeval princess frogs. and they're so

562
00:25:39.059 --> 00:25:39.420
miserable.

563
00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:42.180
Camelots.

564
00:25:42.180 --> 00:25:43.920
Love betrayed.

565
00:25:44.339 --> 00:25:48.660
I don't think this is well directed either because there's a thing

566
00:25:48.660 --> 00:25:52.799
here where Michael should deliver the line as if Worf genuinely

567
00:25:52.799 --> 00:26:00.000
believes that Odo is asking him to go for a walk, but he doesn't

568
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:01.799
and that would have been so much funnier.

569
00:26:01.859 --> 00:26:03.900
Like if he went, yeah, yeah, I'll go for a walk.

570
00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:06.240
It's like, no, it's acting like Sana.

571
00:26:06.299 --> 00:26:08.099
Like that would have been funnier.

572
00:26:08.220 --> 00:26:12.240
And I think the final line is on the nose where it's just a sort

573
00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:15.059
of sign going, I'm so depressed and it's kind of like, yeah, yeah

574
00:26:15.059 --> 00:26:17.160
we've been watching this scene.

575
00:26:17.220 --> 00:26:20.039
I know Courtney's a line because he's on a contract or

576
00:26:20.039 --> 00:26:20.640
obligation.

577
00:26:20.700 --> 00:26:23.579
So we have the scene which establishes this.

578
00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:25.980
Then we have the bit that explains it.

579
00:26:25.980 --> 00:26:29.519
And then it's so fucking 90s trek, isn't it?

580
00:26:29.579 --> 00:26:30.599
Just trust us to get it.

581
00:26:30.660 --> 00:26:31.380
We get it.

582
00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:35.460
That was our big complaint about last week, wasn't it?

583
00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:38.579
It's just like everything was like telegraphed to us as if we

584
00:26:38.579 --> 00:26:41.339
hadn't ever seen TV before.

585
00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:44.700
And here in a way, I'm objecting to the fact that things aren't

586
00:26:44.700 --> 00:26:45.960
very clearly telegraphed.

587
00:26:46.019 --> 00:26:50.039
You know, we can't tell really what the B plot is happening and

588
00:26:50.039 --> 00:26:51.059
you have to reconstruct it.

589
00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:52.920
You said last week about the last lot.

590
00:26:52.980 --> 00:26:54.839
I can't remember what the last line Neelix had during that

591
00:26:54.839 --> 00:26:56.460
terrible scene where he dragged the scene.

592
00:26:56.519 --> 00:26:57.359
Oh, yeah, the non-joke.

593
00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:01.319
The same thing happened just there where that goes, oh, I'm so

594
00:27:01.319 --> 00:27:01.680
depressed.

595
00:27:01.740 --> 00:27:05.579
And it's just not funny and we knew that, you know, like, what's

596
00:27:05.579 --> 00:27:05.759
that?

597
00:27:06.299 --> 00:27:09.119
Like, they, it's a non-joke.

598
00:27:09.180 --> 00:27:12.359
That's a placeholder where a joke should go, but no.

599
00:27:12.359 --> 00:27:13.440
Somebody should do a book.

600
00:27:13.500 --> 00:27:15.900
The non-jokes of 90 Star Trek.

601
00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:16.619
Yeah.

602
00:27:16.619 --> 00:27:18.180
Volumes one to 10.

603
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:23.759
Speaking of writing, though, this is the only time that Majo

604
00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:25.680
Barrett gets a story credit on Star Trek.

605
00:27:25.740 --> 00:27:29.640
Yeah, I think she wanted to do the pregnancy storyline.

606
00:27:29.700 --> 00:27:30.480
Yeah.

607
00:27:30.539 --> 00:27:35.220
So it's her and Renee at Chavario, who get the, who get story and

608
00:27:35.220 --> 00:27:40.799
Renee gets some, um, uh, tailor play credit.

609
00:27:40.859 --> 00:27:44.099
They play along with this for a bit, that her replicator's broken

610
00:27:44.099 --> 00:27:46.440
and she wants some tea because she's a bit angry.

611
00:27:46.500 --> 00:27:48.839
You know it because we've seen TV TV before?

612
00:27:48.900 --> 00:27:50.759
Well, we've seen her do this before.

613
00:27:50.819 --> 00:27:51.720
Yes, of course.

614
00:27:51.779 --> 00:27:52.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

615
00:27:52.619 --> 00:27:54.660
But, like, it's so obvious.

616
00:27:54.660 --> 00:28:00.119
And he knows all, you know, and in a way that your applicator

617
00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:07.440
isn't really broken is almost unnecessary, but I like how old she

618
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:07.799
is, though.

619
00:28:07.859 --> 00:28:08.279
I like this.

620
00:28:08.519 --> 00:28:09.000
She says, yeah.

621
00:28:09.059 --> 00:28:10.500
Yeah, that's all right.

622
00:28:10.500 --> 00:28:12.660
But I'm comfortable now, so I won't go.

623
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:19.019
But but also, it's that thing where she immediately understands

624
00:28:19.019 --> 00:28:19.799
what it's for.

625
00:28:20.039 --> 00:28:21.900
Do you know what I mean?

626
00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:23.640
Most people think it's a sculptor.

627
00:28:23.700 --> 00:28:25.920
She says, oh, it's viewed of shapeshift on, right?

628
00:28:25.980 --> 00:28:26.759
Isn't it?

629
00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:28.019
And he goes, well, yes.

630
00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:31.259
And of course she understands him and that's the point.

631
00:28:31.319 --> 00:28:34.680
I love this as well because she learned in the last episode about

632
00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:36.839
Odo having feelings for Kira.

633
00:28:36.900 --> 00:28:40.740
And she goes, you know, how is that all going?

634
00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:42.720
And she goes, I'm really, really sorry.

635
00:28:42.779 --> 00:28:45.180
And he goes, no, I'm really, I'm happy she's happy.

636
00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:46.980
There's just a maturity to this.

637
00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:48.119
Yeah, yeah.

638
00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:48.720
But I like.

639
00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:52.500
Yeah I agree.

640
00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:56.880
I suppose, you know, he ended up in her lap in one story, so she

641
00:28:56.880 --> 00:28:58.559
had to end up in his lap in another.

642
00:28:58.680 --> 00:28:58.920
Exactly.

643
00:28:58.980 --> 00:29:00.180
I do.

644
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:03.000
I loved his little line where he doesn't think there's much chance

645
00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:08.339
he'll end up pregnant and on the run. his body language when he

646
00:29:08.339 --> 00:29:10.500
touches her stomach and feels the baby kicking.

647
00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:12.599
It's like that...

648
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:13.799
He's never done that before.

649
00:29:13.859 --> 00:29:17.099
It's never occurred to him that that's a thing that happens with

650
00:29:17.099 --> 00:29:21.059
pregnant solids, and he's never touched a pregnant person's

651
00:29:21.059 --> 00:29:24.299
stomach before, and he's absolutely delighted by it.

652
00:29:24.420 --> 00:29:25.140
It's wonderful.

653
00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:30.660
It's the same childlike glee as when he has that bowl of glute

654
00:29:30.660 --> 00:29:33.539
given to him in series 5 that turns to be a change.

655
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:37.259
And every time he experiences something new with it, he does this

656
00:29:37.259 --> 00:29:38.400
his face just lights up.

657
00:29:38.460 --> 00:29:40.079
It was wonderful, wasn't it?

658
00:29:40.140 --> 00:29:40.859
It's really good.

659
00:29:41.220 --> 00:29:43.859
Oh, yeah, look at this.

660
00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:44.279
Look at it.

661
00:29:44.339 --> 00:29:44.700
Look at it.

662
00:29:44.759 --> 00:29:46.799
She doesn't even give him a choice.

663
00:29:46.859 --> 00:29:47.400
Do you want to feel?

664
00:29:47.819 --> 00:29:49.200
Yes, he just does this.

665
00:29:49.259 --> 00:29:51.539
He just, he's so shocked.

666
00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:52.799
It's wonderful.

667
00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:55.140
Such a great choice.

668
00:29:55.319 --> 00:30:00.059
It's sort of doing the learning about humanity thing that they do

669
00:30:00.059 --> 00:30:03.119
with data, but because he's allowed to express emotions.

670
00:30:03.180 --> 00:30:05.160
Yeah, more involving.

671
00:30:05.579 --> 00:30:09.660
Oh, what she says, sometimes you can hear the thoughts of betasoid

672
00:30:09.660 --> 00:30:10.019
babies.

673
00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:11.039
That's a great line as well.

674
00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:14.400
Because babies are content.

675
00:30:14.460 --> 00:30:16.259
Like she has that quote.

676
00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:17.640
Who is it she's quoting?

677
00:30:17.700 --> 00:30:21.779
She says, like, we all spend all our lives lives longing for the

678
00:30:21.779 --> 00:30:24.839
contentment that we experienced in utero, you know?

679
00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:27.779
Like, yeah, here.

680
00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:29.220
Some of these money once said.

681
00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:31.740
It could be just terrible.

682
00:30:31.980 --> 00:30:33.960
There's a relax.

683
00:30:34.019 --> 00:30:35.579
I don't know, something about this works.

684
00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:37.140
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

685
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:38.880
Well I think this is so nice.

686
00:30:38.940 --> 00:30:40.680
I didn't have a mother.

687
00:30:40.740 --> 00:30:41.339
Yeah.

688
00:30:41.579 --> 00:30:43.740
Don't worry, it's all right.

689
00:30:43.799 --> 00:30:44.940
She goes, you'll find your peace.

690
00:30:46.980 --> 00:30:51.180
But, like, how is he feeling now?

691
00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:53.279
Like, is this him?

692
00:30:53.400 --> 00:30:57.059
Like, is he being drawn into the sitcom plot that he feared?

693
00:30:57.119 --> 00:30:58.440
He isn't really, is he?

694
00:30:58.500 --> 00:31:02.819
As usual, she's got more depth than he suspected.

695
00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:04.680
I do love it as well.

696
00:31:04.740 --> 00:31:07.559
I know you don't like the effect, but I like it when he turns into

697
00:31:07.559 --> 00:31:08.160
the blanket.

698
00:31:08.220 --> 00:31:10.559
Oh, I like a blanket over her.

699
00:31:10.619 --> 00:31:13.380
Yeah, he's got...

700
00:31:13.380 --> 00:31:14.519
It's typical DS9.

701
00:31:14.700 --> 00:31:16.079
It's about the people, isn't it?

702
00:31:16.140 --> 00:31:19.440
There's a ridiculous plot going on, but it's about the people and

703
00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:21.240
it's those moments that you take from this.

704
00:31:21.299 --> 00:31:25.619
Well, even the fact, right, that his room has no furniture.

705
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:30.779
Like his quarters make no accommodation for any people who might

706
00:31:30.779 --> 00:31:31.680
enter his life.

707
00:31:31.740 --> 00:31:32.640
Yeah.

708
00:31:32.700 --> 00:31:34.200
And so that's what he does.

709
00:31:34.259 --> 00:31:37.920
He puts the blanket over her doing his stupid gloopy effect.

710
00:31:37.980 --> 00:31:40.500
But that isn't going to stop her though, is it?

711
00:31:40.559 --> 00:31:42.000
She's still got to stay there regardless.

712
00:31:42.059 --> 00:31:43.980
But that's the point, isn't it?

713
00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:47.400
She barges her way into his perfectly ordered life that excludes

714
00:31:47.400 --> 00:31:51.779
everyone and just making his quarters demonstrate that, all right

715
00:31:51.779 --> 00:31:53.160
now in these quarters.

716
00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:56.940
So how did he know where she was staying?

717
00:31:57.000 --> 00:32:00.180
That was the thing that irritated me at the end of the

718
00:32:00.180 --> 00:32:00.539
conversation.

719
00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:01.619
Come and see me in my quarters.

720
00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:02.940
And he goes, oh yeah, all right.

721
00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:04.259
And then she goes.

722
00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:08.160
Why don't you just say computer, where is Anaya staying on the

723
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:08.339
station?

724
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:10.859
Well, do you think that's a thing, though?

725
00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:12.960
That doesn't happen in hotels.

726
00:32:13.019 --> 00:32:16.680
Now, look, we've got we've got candles in the set again, and every

727
00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:19.559
time they do this, I always think it's better lighting than the

728
00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:21.660
actual normal lighting that we get in us there.

729
00:32:21.720 --> 00:32:22.559
Yeah.

730
00:32:22.619 --> 00:32:25.380
But he's nervous. you know what I mean?

731
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:28.079
Because he thinks that sex is going to happen, perhaps.

732
00:32:28.140 --> 00:32:29.640
Do you know what I mean?

733
00:32:29.700 --> 00:32:33.059
Like, because she's older and she's pulling him into her sexy

734
00:32:33.059 --> 00:32:37.140
quarters, which are all blankets and There's a lot of drapes there

735
00:32:37.140 --> 00:32:38.759
given how many naked flames were about.

736
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:40.980
That's it.

737
00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:42.420
Are they nylon?

738
00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:42.839
I hope not.

739
00:32:42.900 --> 00:32:44.339
That sounds potentially terrible.

740
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:47.880
It's not the only thing that's got to be on fire in this room, are

741
00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:48.240
there?

742
00:32:48.299 --> 00:32:52.259
I do like the fact that the book that he writes, it's Anselm, isn't

743
00:32:52.259 --> 00:32:52.440
it?

744
00:32:52.500 --> 00:32:56.039
And that's the book that he writes in Visitor.

745
00:32:56.099 --> 00:32:59.279
Yeah, that she says is one of her favourite books. yeah.

746
00:32:59.339 --> 00:33:00.000
Yeah.

747
00:33:00.059 --> 00:33:02.880
And it's a great book, like we already know, it's a great book.

748
00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:06.779
And so that's brilliant because we don't get the name of the book

749
00:33:06.779 --> 00:33:08.039
until the last shot.

750
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:11.160
The last shot is the cover page, isn't it?

751
00:33:11.160 --> 00:33:13.980
Of the thing where we see that the book was Anselm.

752
00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:17.460
And so we see that she did inspire him to create something that we

753
00:33:17.460 --> 00:33:18.119
know is great.

754
00:33:18.180 --> 00:33:21.539
And I know it's all a, you know, timeline or whatever.

755
00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:23.279
But we saw it on TV.

756
00:33:23.339 --> 00:33:26.039
So it like it matters, I think. and that's what it means.

757
00:33:26.099 --> 00:33:29.579
All of that stuff about, you know, you, you don't know how to

758
00:33:29.579 --> 00:33:33.000
start a book because you don't know, you know, how to bring it to

759
00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:36.420
life, but I bet you know what the 1st line is and all the life.

760
00:33:36.420 --> 00:33:39.180
Like, Renee Shapara is writing this and it obviously is

761
00:33:39.180 --> 00:33:40.380
experienced all this stuff.

762
00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:41.819
So it's it feels believable.

763
00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:43.200
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

764
00:33:43.259 --> 00:33:44.940
I've certainly, do you know what I mean?

765
00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:48.000
Even horrible J.K. Rowling said that she knew that like the last

766
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:52.980
chapter of the Harry Potter series, ages before, you know, she

767
00:33:52.980 --> 00:33:53.519
finished it.

768
00:33:53.579 --> 00:33:57.660
So this, there's something so sensual about that pile of paper.

769
00:33:57.720 --> 00:34:02.279
And for someone who's never worked on paper before, he has the

770
00:34:02.279 --> 00:34:08.039
most beautiful handwriting and like a painter. brushed canvas

771
00:34:08.039 --> 00:34:08.280
right?

772
00:34:08.340 --> 00:34:09.840
It's beautiful, isn't it?

773
00:34:09.900 --> 00:34:13.019
It's called Vistoral, right?

774
00:34:13.019 --> 00:34:13.500
Right.

775
00:34:13.559 --> 00:34:17.280
Yeah, yeah, but it's visceral writing because the paper is sexy.

776
00:34:17.340 --> 00:34:18.539
The pan is sexy.

777
00:34:18.599 --> 00:34:22.559
You know, he's on that stupid, horrible pad trying to write

778
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:23.400
anything.

779
00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:24.900
Do you know what I mean?

780
00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:26.460
It's much worse than an iPad.

781
00:34:26.519 --> 00:34:27.420
It's super gross.

782
00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:30.840
But um, and now he gets to write on paper.

783
00:34:30.900 --> 00:34:34.199
And I actually thought, you know, often it's someone who prepares

784
00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:34.739
the prop.

785
00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:35.940
Like you look at that shot, right?

786
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:40.440
And you sort of think, look at that beautiful handwriting, and I'm

787
00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:42.239
not sure that's a syrup loft.

788
00:34:42.300 --> 00:34:43.440
Is, is it?

789
00:34:43.559 --> 00:34:49.920
is because the camera moves from his hands up his arm twice in the

790
00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:52.860
episode and we see that he's the one actually doing that riding.

791
00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:56.280
And he's 17. what year is this?

792
00:34:56.340 --> 00:34:59.460
Like, and he has that stunning handwriting.

793
00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:00.840
7, 97?

794
00:35:00.900 --> 00:35:02.400
Yeah, that sounds right.

795
00:35:02.519 --> 00:35:05.639
He's 10 years younger than me A bit more than that.

796
00:35:05.699 --> 00:35:07.139
A bit less than that.

797
00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:11.280
I've got to say props to the to the foley artist as well because

798
00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:14.340
this is going to sound crazy, but they're actually the scratching

799
00:35:14.340 --> 00:35:16.440
of the end on the paper.

800
00:35:16.500 --> 00:35:18.420
It's really accentuated here as well.

801
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:20.880
Yeah, and it's real, isn't it?

802
00:35:20.940 --> 00:35:23.760
But this, this is so sexy.

803
00:35:23.820 --> 00:35:27.539
What's going on about the Frost?

804
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:28.320
Yeah, all of that.

805
00:35:28.380 --> 00:35:31.380
But except, except, I don't know.

806
00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:35.760
Like, I actually found all of that, because then she talks about

807
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:37.079
chakras and stuff like that.

808
00:35:37.139 --> 00:35:40.139
So she talks about the temples and she talks.

809
00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:41.699
Yeah, she talks about your shop.

810
00:35:41.699 --> 00:35:43.800
Oh, Nathan, I fucking love a head massage.

811
00:35:43.860 --> 00:35:44.940
Oh, yeah.

812
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:45.539
Well, that's it.

813
00:35:45.659 --> 00:35:48.239
She can creep him up bedroom any day.

814
00:35:48.300 --> 00:35:52.920
Yeah, to stimulate them and they can make you feel restful or

815
00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:54.300
energise.

816
00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:55.860
Like, and all of this stuff.

817
00:35:55.860 --> 00:35:58.739
And what he's writing to is about that experience.

818
00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:01.079
So comforting he could have succumbed.

819
00:36:01.139 --> 00:36:01.980
Do you know what I mean?

820
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:03.659
I felt it...

821
00:36:03.719 --> 00:36:06.599
Do you know, it's the pace of his writing is improved.

822
00:36:06.659 --> 00:36:08.699
It feels like it's flowing out of him.

823
00:36:09.659 --> 00:36:10.860
Look at that shot.

824
00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:13.139
It's like if she's about to lick his ear.

825
00:36:13.380 --> 00:36:15.059
Flow.

826
00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:16.440
Oh my god.

827
00:36:16.500 --> 00:36:17.639
It's so sexy.

828
00:36:17.699 --> 00:36:20.760
Is she the best space vampire that we've had then?

829
00:36:20.820 --> 00:36:24.659
Oh, she's, yeah, so I think, are we going to see that?

830
00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:28.199
Look, they're his riding and there we move up his arm and it's

831
00:36:28.199 --> 00:36:32.760
definitely him riding beautifully for someone who has never used

832
00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:33.420
paper before.

833
00:36:35.579 --> 00:36:40.739
It does feel like genuinely quite essential as well, doesn't it?

834
00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:41.280
Yeah, isn't it?

835
00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:43.860
But remember, you know, how many times we watched 90s trek

836
00:36:43.860 --> 00:36:45.780
episodes and we've gone, ugh, you know.

837
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:47.159
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

838
00:36:47.219 --> 00:36:50.760
So when, so she's like sniffing his hair.

839
00:36:50.820 --> 00:36:51.659
Do you know what I mean?

840
00:36:51.719 --> 00:36:55.260
Like, it's like she's, she's not sort of holding her hands over

841
00:36:55.260 --> 00:36:58.860
his head and, you know, putting beams into his hair or whatever.

842
00:36:58.860 --> 00:37:04.199
Like, it's, it's, um, she's wafting his scent into her nostrils.

843
00:37:04.260 --> 00:37:08.400
This is exactly the game I would play if I had a changelim, mate.

844
00:37:08.460 --> 00:37:10.920
Go on, turn into something and I'll try and find you.

845
00:37:11.039 --> 00:37:13.260
The change is an equivalent of hide and seek, you know?

846
00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:18.000
But I love where she goes over and says, because that is a thing

847
00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:21.719
with a really interesting texture that would be really challenging

848
00:37:21.719 --> 00:37:24.840
to replicate, and she thought it was him.

849
00:37:24.900 --> 00:37:26.519
And I thought it was him too.

850
00:37:26.579 --> 00:37:29.400
And then she goes, oh my god, you can do surfaces.

851
00:37:29.460 --> 00:37:30.360
I didn't know that.

852
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:35.159
And there's that level of interest in a knowledge about his shape

853
00:37:35.159 --> 00:37:38.039
shifting that we don't get from anyone else.

854
00:37:38.099 --> 00:37:39.719
I didn't know you wanted to.

855
00:37:39.780 --> 00:37:40.380
You do the surfaces?

856
00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:42.719
Well, now you do. really good, isn't it?

857
00:37:43.559 --> 00:37:45.780
It's really annoying.

858
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:46.920
Yeah.

859
00:37:46.980 --> 00:37:50.280
I can't imagine why I found these scenes so bad before.

860
00:37:50.340 --> 00:37:51.960
No, they're charming.

861
00:37:52.019 --> 00:37:52.440
Are they?

862
00:37:52.500 --> 00:37:53.159
Look how exciting.

863
00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:57.659
You saw a toxic uniform in a very playful way, hasn't it?

864
00:37:57.719 --> 00:37:59.159
He's having a great time.

865
00:37:59.219 --> 00:38:01.199
Yeah, and there we go.

866
00:38:01.260 --> 00:38:04.019
The husband, the horrible husband has arrived and it's Michael and

867
00:38:04.019 --> 00:38:04.440
Sam.

868
00:38:04.500 --> 00:38:06.780
And watch how he goes straight to business.

869
00:38:06.840 --> 00:38:07.739
He straightens up.

870
00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:08.760
Yeah, yeah.

871
00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:13.679
The more I watch, Renee, I can never say his surname.

872
00:38:13.739 --> 00:38:15.539
Oh, yeah.

873
00:38:15.599 --> 00:38:20.639
The more impressed I am with how how much work he does when he

874
00:38:20.639 --> 00:38:22.260
can't actually, you can't see his face.

875
00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:25.139
He just uses his body in such an expressive way.

876
00:38:25.260 --> 00:38:28.739
Yeah, I didn't make the link between this fellow and Kang, you

877
00:38:28.739 --> 00:38:28.920
know.

878
00:38:28.980 --> 00:38:29.579
Kang.

879
00:38:29.639 --> 00:38:35.400
I think that in Day of the Dove, he's really attractive, like he's

880
00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:39.840
you know, he's in his 40s, but he's a really attractive man and

881
00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:44.280
you know, here he's 73 or something like he's sort of reasonably

882
00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:45.840
old and he's very good.

883
00:38:45.900 --> 00:38:47.099
He's got a lovely voice.

884
00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:50.280
It does, but it's a very whole false character, isn't it?

885
00:38:50.340 --> 00:38:54.539
He's here to just do one function and that's just to drag her away

886
00:38:54.539 --> 00:38:56.099
and then be convinced.

887
00:38:56.820 --> 00:39:01.199
All that sort of nuance we've talked about between Odo and Luxana

888
00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:02.460
none of that's here with this character.

889
00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:03.300
No, no, no.

890
00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:07.440
But I do like that he gets to, like, he believes it.

891
00:39:07.500 --> 00:39:10.500
Like, he's the one who believes it and then leaves.

892
00:39:10.500 --> 00:39:12.539
And he doesn't like anything, does it?

893
00:39:12.599 --> 00:39:13.980
He just, he just goes.

894
00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:18.059
No, but there's a beautiful scene with him and Luxana later where

895
00:39:18.059 --> 00:39:22.860
you know, there's not nothing to their relationship and he says

896
00:39:22.860 --> 00:39:27.300
you know, bring my son up, but speak well of me to him and she

897
00:39:27.300 --> 00:39:29.460
nods and says, yes, of course I will.

898
00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:32.820
You know, like I just thought that was, again, just a sort of

899
00:39:32.820 --> 00:39:34.559
level of grown-upness to the whole thing.

900
00:39:34.619 --> 00:39:38.099
But this is a sort of shitty law that you have to create.

901
00:39:38.159 --> 00:39:41.940
It's the mother's husband that has the rights over the child

902
00:39:41.940 --> 00:39:43.739
rather than the child's father.

903
00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:46.139
That makes it no sense.

904
00:39:46.199 --> 00:39:46.800
No.

905
00:39:46.860 --> 00:39:50.159
But all of that is just all kind of weird bullshit, isn't it?

906
00:39:50.219 --> 00:39:53.340
Because it's amazing. into the wedding situation, isn't it?

907
00:39:53.400 --> 00:39:53.699
Yeah.

908
00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:56.880
But I mean, that's a thing that we've done before.

909
00:39:56.940 --> 00:40:00.360
But so we talked about cost of living, and of course, cost of

910
00:40:00.360 --> 00:40:01.199
living is resolved.

911
00:40:01.260 --> 00:40:06.300
We, um, we defeat the horrible husband to be in cost of living

912
00:40:06.300 --> 00:40:10.739
because, like, Sana turns up naked at her wedding, because it's a

913
00:40:10.739 --> 00:40:14.820
betazoid wedding and there was some throwaway line in series one

914
00:40:14.820 --> 00:40:17.519
about how betazoids are naked when they get married.

915
00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:22.619
Yeah, that's right.

916
00:40:23.099 --> 00:40:25.619
And does she say to Picard?

917
00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:28.199
Oh, by the way, the person who gives me away has to be naked as

918
00:40:28.199 --> 00:40:28.380
well.

919
00:40:28.440 --> 00:40:29.519
He's like what?

920
00:40:30.179 --> 00:40:33.719
What I loved about this scene as well is in so many of these

921
00:40:33.719 --> 00:40:35.099
Loaxana Troy episodes.

922
00:40:35.159 --> 00:40:36.840
She's the one driving everything.

923
00:40:36.900 --> 00:40:39.599
She's the one saying, oh, you've got to do this ridiculous thing.

924
00:40:39.659 --> 00:40:41.460
And what was really nice was here.

925
00:40:41.519 --> 00:40:43.739
It's Odo saying, look, I'll come up with this insane plan.

926
00:40:43.800 --> 00:40:46.019
She's going...

927
00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:47.639
Are we really gonna try and do this?

928
00:40:47.699 --> 00:40:51.360
And she's so much more likeable when she's not the one that's

929
00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:51.960
pushing everything.

930
00:40:52.679 --> 00:40:58.559
But the thing is that she doesn't know that he loves her and he

931
00:40:58.559 --> 00:41:03.960
knows that he does and so he knows he can pull it off. don't you

932
00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:04.079
think?

933
00:41:04.139 --> 00:41:07.079
I don't think he knows until that wedding scene.

934
00:41:07.139 --> 00:41:09.300
I think he realises that he's saying it.

935
00:41:09.360 --> 00:41:12.000
Maybe, yeah, yeah, maybe, maybe.

936
00:41:12.059 --> 00:41:14.099
I think that's how he plays it.

937
00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:17.820
It's like he sort of pauses and then delivers that amazing...

938
00:41:17.820 --> 00:41:19.380
And then start saying this thing.

939
00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:24.360
But I think I think that we've seen in their inter- Yeah, so maybe

940
00:41:24.360 --> 00:41:27.119
he's realising partly from the way they're interacting in the way

941
00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:29.280
that she's talking about his shapeshifting in this episode.

942
00:41:29.340 --> 00:41:34.019
Now, can I ask Nathan what your standard Star Trek fan, you know

943
00:41:34.019 --> 00:41:36.659
expecting space anomalies and problems is going to think of all

944
00:41:36.659 --> 00:41:36.840
this?

945
00:41:36.900 --> 00:41:39.360
Well, I think that that's why it's hated.

946
00:41:39.420 --> 00:41:43.019
And in fact, there is a bit of, you know, Star Trek shit.

947
00:41:43.079 --> 00:41:47.820
You know, in the 3 quarter mark, which I...

948
00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:49.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

949
00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:54.179
Some weird blob goes flying into space, just to keep them happy.

950
00:41:54.239 --> 00:41:55.800
That's exactly right.

951
00:41:55.860 --> 00:41:56.820
It's not very successful.

952
00:41:57.000 --> 00:41:59.340
I love that too.

953
00:41:59.400 --> 00:42:03.780
I love that she's concerned about the nosebleed and he's brushing

954
00:42:03.780 --> 00:42:07.019
it off because he wants to get back to riding and having his hair

955
00:42:07.019 --> 00:42:09.300
stroked by sexy Meg Foster.

956
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:11.039
Look at that smile.

957
00:42:11.159 --> 00:42:12.119
Holy crap.

958
00:42:12.179 --> 00:42:14.880
This is the 2nd episode of G Space 9.

959
00:42:14.940 --> 00:42:17.519
We've watched, you know, where we've seen blood spilt on a page.

960
00:42:18.119 --> 00:42:20.760
Oh, do you remember the 1st one?

961
00:42:20.820 --> 00:42:21.659
monster Ojin.

962
00:42:25.079 --> 00:42:26.460
Right.

963
00:42:26.460 --> 00:42:30.239
Now here everyone's been roped into this stupid sitcom scene.

964
00:42:30.300 --> 00:42:31.440
I can't believe it.

965
00:42:31.500 --> 00:42:35.699
Poor old Mike Lansara has typically pronouncing Luxana and

966
00:42:35.699 --> 00:42:37.260
actually gets it wrong when he says it.

967
00:42:37.260 --> 00:42:38.579
Oh, don't wear it, though, Nathan.

968
00:42:38.699 --> 00:42:39.300
Yes.

969
00:42:39.300 --> 00:42:40.739
So this is like...

970
00:42:40.739 --> 00:42:42.420
He's had a costumes that won the awards.

971
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:43.440
Yeah, yeah.

972
00:42:43.500 --> 00:42:46.860
It's seersucker or fucking corduroy or something?

973
00:42:46.920 --> 00:42:47.760
What's going on?

974
00:42:47.820 --> 00:42:49.559
Like, what's the next?

975
00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:51.840
That is blue corduroy, yes.

976
00:42:51.900 --> 00:42:55.199
Yeah, and then and then she's wearing the same thing as if it's

977
00:42:55.199 --> 00:42:56.460
like leisure wear.

978
00:42:56.519 --> 00:42:57.599
Like, it looks so bad.

979
00:42:57.719 --> 00:43:00.719
And it's really restricted around the neck.

980
00:43:00.780 --> 00:43:01.980
I mean, who would want to wear that?

981
00:43:02.039 --> 00:43:03.119
Yeah, dreadful.

982
00:43:03.179 --> 00:43:06.059
And then she's wearing that sort of stupid veil that goes halfway

983
00:43:06.059 --> 00:43:07.559
up her face in the wrong way.

984
00:43:07.619 --> 00:43:09.179
Like it's really bad.

985
00:43:09.239 --> 00:43:11.219
I do like the light, though.

986
00:43:11.460 --> 00:43:13.920
Yeah, the light is, the light is good.

987
00:43:13.980 --> 00:43:16.199
I'm not sure that falls under costuming, though.

988
00:43:16.260 --> 00:43:16.980
That's probably props.

989
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:18.059
No, that it's a prop.

990
00:43:18.119 --> 00:43:21.119
Yeah, like the veil is really terrible.

991
00:43:21.179 --> 00:43:23.940
I love this ceremony, though, where you elevate the woman and then

992
00:43:23.940 --> 00:43:25.380
say fabulous things about her.

993
00:43:25.440 --> 00:43:29.219
But remember, it's a really patriarchal society and he actually

994
00:43:29.219 --> 00:43:32.400
does say, you know, you are my most important possession or

995
00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:33.059
something like that.

996
00:43:33.119 --> 00:43:35.039
Like it is that.

997
00:43:35.159 --> 00:43:36.659
Like, the Tavnians.

998
00:43:36.780 --> 00:43:39.059
The problem with the Tavians is they're super sexist and

999
00:43:39.059 --> 00:43:41.639
restrictive. my worldly possessions.

1000
00:43:41.699 --> 00:43:45.300
His delivery though here where he's just so off the cuff.

1001
00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:46.980
Oh, marry me.

1002
00:43:47.039 --> 00:43:48.000
Yeah, yeah.

1003
00:43:48.059 --> 00:43:51.360
Am I the only one who's less convinced about this ceremony?

1004
00:43:51.420 --> 00:43:52.500
He goes, Michael.

1005
00:43:52.559 --> 00:43:53.280
Yeah, yeah, you're right.

1006
00:43:53.340 --> 00:43:53.760
You're right.

1007
00:43:53.820 --> 00:43:55.860
Because of course, he can't be thinking I can pull this off

1008
00:43:55.860 --> 00:43:57.659
because he doesn't even attempt it, does he?

1009
00:43:57.719 --> 00:44:00.480
He just says some dumb thing and it's only when my clansara

1010
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:01.739
says...

1011
00:44:01.800 --> 00:44:02.760
Yeah, yeah.

1012
00:44:02.820 --> 00:44:03.900
Yeah.

1013
00:44:03.960 --> 00:44:06.059
Oh, that's, yeah, see, this is it.

1014
00:44:06.179 --> 00:44:08.159
He goes, the Waxano is not just any woman.

1015
00:44:08.219 --> 00:44:09.059
Not to me.

1016
00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:12.000
Yeah, and then we get it.

1017
00:44:12.059 --> 00:44:16.500
And what I love is how he says when she came into my life.

1018
00:44:16.559 --> 00:44:20.340
I had no idea the impact she would have on me because for the 1st

1019
00:44:20.340 --> 00:44:24.719
time ever somebody saw me for who I am and wasn't afraid.

1020
00:44:24.719 --> 00:44:25.260
Yeah.

1021
00:44:25.260 --> 00:44:26.280
Oh, that's lovely.

1022
00:44:26.340 --> 00:44:28.619
It is really good, isn't it?

1023
00:44:28.679 --> 00:44:30.179
And she is lovely.

1024
00:44:30.239 --> 00:44:32.340
Like we've seen her on screen with him.

1025
00:44:32.460 --> 00:44:34.920
She calls him my dear sweet man.

1026
00:44:34.980 --> 00:44:39.000
She's really kind of physically affectionate without, you know

1027
00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:42.059
without being overbearing.

1028
00:44:42.179 --> 00:44:44.219
This is a beautiful speech.

1029
00:44:44.280 --> 00:44:47.460
It turns out, you know, she just had to come where all the other

1030
00:44:47.460 --> 00:44:50.340
rejects of the galaxy are DS9 to thrive.

1031
00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:52.139
Yeah, yeah.

1032
00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:52.860
Yeah.

1033
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:54.960
And look at her.

1034
00:44:55.019 --> 00:44:56.820
Like, look at her reaction.

1035
00:44:56.880 --> 00:45:00.059
Now she's just silently reacting in the background.

1036
00:45:00.300 --> 00:45:04.019
Like, so I saw how different I was and she didn't recoil.

1037
00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:05.280
She wanted to see more.

1038
00:45:05.340 --> 00:45:09.179
And I don't think she realises any of that.

1039
00:45:09.239 --> 00:45:10.019
Do you?

1040
00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:12.659
Like, is she... like she's a shot as well.

1041
00:45:12.719 --> 00:45:13.980
You're seeing her rap?

1042
00:45:14.039 --> 00:45:14.519
Yeah, yeah.

1043
00:45:14.579 --> 00:45:16.079
So we're seeing her reaction in the background.

1044
00:45:16.679 --> 00:45:20.579
And even afterwards, she goes, I can't believe we got away with

1045
00:45:20.579 --> 00:45:21.360
that.

1046
00:45:21.420 --> 00:45:22.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1047
00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:25.320
I almost believed your speech myself.

1048
00:45:25.380 --> 00:45:28.440
Yes, I know, I know.

1049
00:45:28.500 --> 00:45:31.440
But do you think they don't, is it me?

1050
00:45:31.500 --> 00:45:33.539
They don't properly land it, I think.

1051
00:45:33.599 --> 00:45:35.159
No, yeah, there's...

1052
00:45:35.159 --> 00:45:38.159
Well, the whole situation is absurd.

1053
00:45:38.219 --> 00:45:38.699
Well.

1054
00:45:38.760 --> 00:45:39.360
Well, that's okay.

1055
00:45:39.420 --> 00:45:40.619
But do you know what I mean?

1056
00:45:40.679 --> 00:45:43.500
The whole situation just exists so that we can have this speech.

1057
00:45:43.559 --> 00:45:44.820
Yeah.

1058
00:45:44.880 --> 00:45:47.699
But it does mean something and it is backed up by previous

1059
00:45:47.699 --> 00:45:48.239
episodes.

1060
00:45:48.300 --> 00:45:49.860
So I think it lands in that respect.

1061
00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:54.360
It's just not as, it doesn't sort of touch you as much as it

1062
00:45:54.360 --> 00:45:55.380
probably should.

1063
00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:56.340
It doesn't break your heart.

1064
00:45:56.400 --> 00:45:57.360
No.

1065
00:45:57.360 --> 00:45:59.820
And it should break your heart when she leaves, shouldn't it?

1066
00:45:59.880 --> 00:46:00.840
And it doesn't.

1067
00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:01.800
Yeah, yeah.

1068
00:46:01.860 --> 00:46:04.920
I did like the fact we cut to Kira.

1069
00:46:04.980 --> 00:46:07.079
Everyone else is sort of looking on a Mara.

1070
00:46:07.139 --> 00:46:10.019
Kira looks down at her feet to go.

1071
00:46:10.139 --> 00:46:11.519
Not sure about this, you know.

1072
00:46:12.239 --> 00:46:13.800
Yeah.

1073
00:46:13.860 --> 00:46:15.300
And look.

1074
00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:19.199
And that's Michael and Sarah realising that it's actually, yep, you

1075
00:46:19.199 --> 00:46:19.739
won.

1076
00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:21.000
It is true.

1077
00:46:21.059 --> 00:46:24.360
Michael Ansara realising my Star Trek dream is over.

1078
00:46:24.420 --> 00:46:25.679
Yeah, yeah.

1079
00:46:26.280 --> 00:46:30.420
But as well, like David Livingston.

1080
00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:34.679
David Livingston directed that astonishing Klingon wedding and you

1081
00:46:34.679 --> 00:46:35.820
are cordially invited.

1082
00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:39.719
And that shows you when he's invested, he can really deliver it.

1083
00:46:39.780 --> 00:46:41.820
Whereas this just feels very point and shoot.

1084
00:46:41.880 --> 00:46:44.159
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1085
00:46:44.219 --> 00:46:47.639
It's not landing, but I don't think he properly knows what's

1086
00:46:47.639 --> 00:46:51.119
important or no one really is kind of trying to pull a story out

1087
00:46:51.119 --> 00:46:52.019
of this script.

1088
00:46:53.519 --> 00:46:58.139
I saw this is the end of this story now, whereas the other one's

1089
00:46:58.139 --> 00:46:59.280
about halfway through, isn't it?

1090
00:46:59.340 --> 00:47:03.179
We've still got the whole 5 minutes of, my God, there's an alien

1091
00:47:03.179 --> 00:47:04.260
on the on the station.

1092
00:47:04.320 --> 00:47:05.280
We need to find them.

1093
00:47:05.340 --> 00:47:07.320
That's the boring bit.

1094
00:47:07.380 --> 00:47:10.920
And so what they've done is they've beefed up the Muse plot

1095
00:47:10.920 --> 00:47:12.780
because they think this one isn't working.

1096
00:47:12.840 --> 00:47:16.260
Whereas I think this one could easily have worked and could easily

1097
00:47:16.260 --> 00:47:18.300
have been the A plot. don't you think?

1098
00:47:18.360 --> 00:47:20.340
Because it's about Odo getting his arm broken.

1099
00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:21.780
I wishing this is the A-law.

1100
00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:25.559
I feel like the Jake plot is just the...

1101
00:47:25.679 --> 00:47:28.500
But it's the one that it's the one that they give the climax to

1102
00:47:28.500 --> 00:47:31.320
and it's the one that they give the title to.

1103
00:47:31.380 --> 00:47:33.480
And that was their decision.

1104
00:47:33.539 --> 00:47:38.519
This was going to be called one playing house and then it isn't

1105
00:47:38.519 --> 00:47:39.059
called that.

1106
00:47:39.119 --> 00:47:40.619
Oh, look.

1107
00:47:40.739 --> 00:47:42.179
Yeah, see.

1108
00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:43.500
Is there a double meaning?

1109
00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:44.940
Is she Odo's Muse?

1110
00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:47.460
No, I don't think that quite works.

1111
00:47:47.519 --> 00:47:48.840
But yeah, yeah.

1112
00:47:48.900 --> 00:47:50.760
That I really...

1113
00:47:50.820 --> 00:47:53.579
If you wanted to marry me, we should tell them the truth.

1114
00:47:54.300 --> 00:47:57.960
But the way she throws her arms around him, just so natural.

1115
00:47:57.960 --> 00:48:00.900
But that should break his heart to hear that.

1116
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:04.019
The camera needs to linger a bit, doesn't it?

1117
00:48:04.079 --> 00:48:04.920
We need a reaction shot.

1118
00:48:04.980 --> 00:48:08.099
That should break his heart, I think.

1119
00:48:08.159 --> 00:48:11.400
She is really getting off on Jake's juices now.

1120
00:48:11.460 --> 00:48:11.880
Look at that.

1121
00:48:11.940 --> 00:48:13.260
Look, I know.

1122
00:48:13.320 --> 00:48:15.960
But look, it's just like, look at that.

1123
00:48:16.019 --> 00:48:17.519
It's like they're postcoital.

1124
00:48:17.579 --> 00:48:21.119
Compared to, you know, Troy oiling that man's chest.

1125
00:48:21.179 --> 00:48:23.519
This is positively coil, isn't it?

1126
00:48:23.579 --> 00:48:25.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1127
00:48:25.260 --> 00:48:30.360
And so she doesn't like, he's really into it, isn't it?

1128
00:48:30.420 --> 00:48:32.820
He wants her to go on and she's making him stop.

1129
00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:36.659
Just like, even though we had the sort of evil leer before, you

1130
00:48:36.659 --> 00:48:40.559
know, the end of the scene, where he's not worried about the

1131
00:48:40.559 --> 00:48:43.079
nosebleed, but she is a bit.

1132
00:48:43.139 --> 00:48:44.340
Yeah.

1133
00:48:44.400 --> 00:48:48.480
I do think he's more interested in the, you know, the astonishing

1134
00:48:48.480 --> 00:48:50.219
book that he's creating, though, than her.

1135
00:48:50.280 --> 00:48:51.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1136
00:48:51.300 --> 00:48:51.960
No, no, absolutely.

1137
00:48:52.019 --> 00:48:54.539
But, of course, it's all being done in this sort of sexy way.

1138
00:48:54.900 --> 00:48:56.280
Yeah.

1139
00:48:56.340 --> 00:48:59.460
By all accounts, she had a fabulous time doing the episode as

1140
00:48:59.460 --> 00:48:59.699
well.

1141
00:48:59.760 --> 00:49:00.780
She really enjoyed it.

1142
00:49:00.900 --> 00:49:03.840
She says she loved meeting, even though she doesn't have a scene

1143
00:49:03.840 --> 00:49:04.260
with her.

1144
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:06.059
She loved meeting Major Barrett as well.

1145
00:49:06.119 --> 00:49:07.199
Oh, okay, wow.

1146
00:49:07.260 --> 00:49:10.500
Yeah, they could have been shooting in, you know, different

1147
00:49:10.500 --> 00:49:10.920
months.

1148
00:49:10.980 --> 00:49:14.760
I think, I think he does a great job too.

1149
00:49:14.820 --> 00:49:18.599
He looks terrible when he goes into the reprimat.

1150
00:49:18.659 --> 00:49:21.119
Look how tired he looks and it's not just makeup.

1151
00:49:21.179 --> 00:49:25.320
He's just he's really selling it. saddest things about DS9 is in

1152
00:49:25.320 --> 00:49:28.800
the last 2 series, they do forget Jake a bit.

1153
00:49:28.860 --> 00:49:30.119
They give him a few bits to do.

1154
00:49:30.179 --> 00:49:34.920
But in sort of three, four, five, They've really given him great

1155
00:49:34.920 --> 00:49:37.679
episodes and some good acting chances.

1156
00:49:37.739 --> 00:49:39.239
I don't think this is a great episode.

1157
00:49:39.300 --> 00:49:41.760
Don't get me wrong, but look at this.

1158
00:49:41.820 --> 00:49:42.780
I think he sells this.

1159
00:49:42.840 --> 00:49:44.880
Like, I just felt really bad for him.

1160
00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:47.699
So here we are.

1161
00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:49.380
So this is where we normally start the episode.

1162
00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:50.639
Well, Jake's been knocked out.

1163
00:49:50.699 --> 00:49:52.380
Now it's just like terrible.

1164
00:49:52.380 --> 00:49:53.219
She is investigating.

1165
00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:54.539
That's right.

1166
00:49:54.599 --> 00:49:59.159
There's some sort of subsonic particles that have been extracted.

1167
00:49:59.159 --> 00:50:02.340
Eurotransmitter productions off the scale, blah, blah.

1168
00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:05.400
This is where Star Trek fans all sit up and go, what, what?

1169
00:50:05.460 --> 00:50:07.199
Star Trek thing suddenly happening.

1170
00:50:07.260 --> 00:50:09.300
Thank God that sitcom's over.

1171
00:50:09.360 --> 00:50:13.260
Just goes in the Jeffreys tube with his gun in a minute, you know

1172
00:50:13.260 --> 00:50:14.340
like it's all going on.

1173
00:50:14.519 --> 00:50:17.400
At the moment, the moment where I really lost my shit with the

1174
00:50:17.400 --> 00:50:20.400
episode was where Kira says, oh, we can't beam you out.

1175
00:50:20.460 --> 00:50:23.400
There's too much radiation there and I just thought, oh, fuck, of

1176
00:50:23.400 --> 00:50:24.360
course there is.

1177
00:50:24.960 --> 00:50:29.820
No, the bit where I realised how lacklustre this all wars was when

1178
00:50:29.820 --> 00:50:33.300
he goes, get away from it, my son, and she goes, oh, but I'm

1179
00:50:33.300 --> 00:50:36.239
inspiring him, and he just sort of points and shoots the gun in

1180
00:50:36.239 --> 00:50:37.920
the lamest way you've ever seen.

1181
00:50:37.980 --> 00:50:38.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1182
00:50:38.639 --> 00:50:40.619
It's really no one's kind of giving a shit.

1183
00:50:40.679 --> 00:50:44.039
Although Nurse what's her face is definitely...

1184
00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:45.420
It looks amazing in that.

1185
00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:46.019
Did you see?

1186
00:50:46.079 --> 00:50:52.559
Yeah, I thought so, too. what this is with sexy women in this in

1187
00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:52.980
this episode.

1188
00:50:53.460 --> 00:50:56.039
DS9 is getting us on the turn.

1189
00:50:56.219 --> 00:50:58.320
Oh, look at it now.

1190
00:50:58.440 --> 00:51:02.400
Look, she appears in the sick bay. sort of, what is she, just sort

1191
00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:03.599
of brush aside the morning?

1192
00:51:03.659 --> 00:51:04.260
Yeah, yeah.

1193
00:51:04.260 --> 00:51:06.840
Do you know, Nathan, I could be mad.

1194
00:51:06.900 --> 00:51:09.719
I think that woman, that was Patricia Tallman, you know, who

1195
00:51:09.719 --> 00:51:11.159
played a regular on Babylon 5.

1196
00:51:11.400 --> 00:51:12.420
Oh no, it was.

1197
00:51:12.539 --> 00:51:13.500
Oh, it was.

1198
00:51:13.559 --> 00:51:14.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1199
00:51:14.760 --> 00:51:17.519
Well, she's slubbing it, but she's assistant in DS 9.

1200
00:51:17.579 --> 00:51:20.639
So I think she does a couple of episodes only.

1201
00:51:20.940 --> 00:51:25.679
I think Paramount paid better than...

1202
00:51:26.880 --> 00:51:29.579
Oh, here's O'Brien saying now.

1203
00:51:29.579 --> 00:51:30.719
Sion energy.

1204
00:51:30.719 --> 00:51:34.860
Jesus Christ, we've got him waving a tricorder around.

1205
00:51:34.920 --> 00:51:38.519
Like, this is like, this is the opposite of sexy, isn't it?

1206
00:51:38.579 --> 00:51:42.539
Like, we've had all these sexy season now, it's stopped being

1207
00:51:42.539 --> 00:51:42.900
sexy.

1208
00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:46.320
I feel like I was a fucking voyager again. one of those scenes

1209
00:51:46.320 --> 00:51:47.280
where I had last week, you know?

1210
00:51:47.340 --> 00:51:48.780
That's right.

1211
00:51:48.840 --> 00:51:52.199
And this is where this is where the actors are uncomfortable as

1212
00:51:52.199 --> 00:51:54.360
well on this show because they're used to doing lots of character

1213
00:51:54.360 --> 00:51:54.719
stuff.

1214
00:51:54.780 --> 00:51:57.599
You suddenly start giving them shit tons of technababble and they

1215
00:51:57.599 --> 00:51:58.800
all just sound...

1216
00:51:58.860 --> 00:52:00.719
Like now we're in a fucking Jeffreys tube.

1217
00:52:01.019 --> 00:52:03.000
Oh, here we go.

1218
00:52:03.059 --> 00:52:04.679
Like she's smelling his hair.

1219
00:52:04.739 --> 00:52:06.179
Oh, Jake.

1220
00:52:06.239 --> 00:52:08.519
Give me your psionic energy.

1221
00:52:08.760 --> 00:52:10.679
And I like it enough.

1222
00:52:10.739 --> 00:52:13.739
She puts them into a, she puts the energy into her breast. doesn't

1223
00:52:13.739 --> 00:52:13.920
she?

1224
00:52:13.980 --> 00:52:15.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1225
00:52:19.019 --> 00:52:21.900
So, yeah, it is pretty amazing.

1226
00:52:22.260 --> 00:52:25.019
We both went quiet then.

1227
00:52:25.079 --> 00:52:27.960
There was literally nothing to say. leg, no.

1228
00:52:28.260 --> 00:52:33.420
So, I can't remember whether we said this on the recording or

1229
00:52:33.420 --> 00:52:38.219
before the recording, but this will do the Star Trek trick of

1230
00:52:38.219 --> 00:52:40.739
mentioning 2 real people in a fake person.

1231
00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:44.880
And so this is a little bit like the wolf in the fold.

1232
00:52:44.940 --> 00:52:48.599
Remember the wolf in the fold that that sort of creature that was

1233
00:52:48.599 --> 00:52:51.960
Jack the Ripper and various other murderers on earth?

1234
00:52:52.019 --> 00:52:54.659
She was amused throughout Earth's history.

1235
00:52:54.719 --> 00:52:59.579
And so we mentioned Catullus, who's a 1st century Roman poet, who

1236
00:52:59.579 --> 00:53:03.780
died, we think, you know, the story goes that he died at about the

1237
00:53:03.780 --> 00:53:06.900
age of 30. you read any?

1238
00:53:06.960 --> 00:53:08.340
Oh yeah, it's great.

1239
00:53:08.400 --> 00:53:09.960
We read it all the time at school.

1240
00:53:10.019 --> 00:53:13.920
He's, you know, he's and he writes love poetry and really sexy

1241
00:53:13.980 --> 00:53:14.760
love poetry.

1242
00:53:14.820 --> 00:53:22.679
And, um, Keats, who died of tuberculosis at the age of 25 and then

1243
00:53:22.679 --> 00:53:26.940
we get um, Phineas Tarbold from the Canopius Planet.

1244
00:53:29.039 --> 00:53:31.320
Prittius Tarbold.

1245
00:53:31.380 --> 00:53:37.619
Yeah, who Gary Mitchell quotes 2 lines from a sonnet of his called

1246
00:53:37.619 --> 00:53:41.820
the Nightingale Woman, and it was written in 1996.

1247
00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:48.059
So he was from the distant future of 1996 on another planet, and

1248
00:53:48.059 --> 00:53:50.099
he wrote a sonnet and she was inspiring him.

1249
00:53:50.159 --> 00:53:52.619
I do know the fact that she gets away, though.

1250
00:53:52.679 --> 00:53:54.059
You know, she sort of zaps off.

1251
00:53:54.119 --> 00:53:55.139
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1252
00:53:55.139 --> 00:53:56.639
It would have been terrible to kill her.

1253
00:53:56.760 --> 00:53:57.420
Yeah, yeah.

1254
00:53:57.480 --> 00:53:59.340
I wonder where she's gone now, you know?

1255
00:53:59.400 --> 00:54:02.219
Who is some architect or some artist.

1256
00:54:02.280 --> 00:54:03.420
Look how beautiful she is.

1257
00:54:03.480 --> 00:54:06.300
Yeah, it's not what I am that matters. what I do.

1258
00:54:06.360 --> 00:54:09.599
And...

1259
00:54:09.599 --> 00:54:11.280
I unlocked that potential.

1260
00:54:12.840 --> 00:54:14.760
Oh, Avery.

1261
00:54:14.820 --> 00:54:18.119
Avery just seems a bit lost in this scene though. what am I

1262
00:54:18.119 --> 00:54:18.300
doing?

1263
00:54:18.360 --> 00:54:20.579
How did my career come to this?

1264
00:54:20.639 --> 00:54:24.480
Yeah, there's a sort of crapness to this, but her performance is

1265
00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:27.420
so magnificent and what she's saying is pretty great.

1266
00:54:27.539 --> 00:54:31.440
And what she does, you know, is a kind of terrible thing, but, you

1267
00:54:31.440 --> 00:54:34.500
know, if it's true, we all benefit from the poetry of Keats and

1268
00:54:34.500 --> 00:54:35.579
Catalus.

1269
00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:37.920
It's the opposite of my usual...

1270
00:54:37.920 --> 00:54:39.480
Phineas Tarbolt.

1271
00:54:39.539 --> 00:54:42.659
My usual complaint is, you know, you have a great episode let down

1272
00:54:42.659 --> 00:54:45.780
by dreadful murder she wrote extra in one of the main parts.

1273
00:54:45.840 --> 00:54:49.199
This is a kind of substandard episode with a great guest character

1274
00:54:49.199 --> 00:54:50.219
actor in it.

1275
00:54:50.340 --> 00:54:54.239
Yeah, well, 2 great guest character actors, I think, as well.

1276
00:54:54.300 --> 00:54:58.500
Even the special effect when he shoots so lacklustre, we just

1277
00:54:58.500 --> 00:54:59.460
can't be bothered.

1278
00:54:59.519 --> 00:55:00.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1279
00:55:00.539 --> 00:55:01.199
That's season one.

1280
00:55:01.199 --> 00:55:04.679
Just a standard shot of something coming out of the station now.

1281
00:55:04.739 --> 00:55:05.460
Yep.

1282
00:55:05.519 --> 00:55:06.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1283
00:55:06.599 --> 00:55:07.199
Snapping off.

1284
00:55:07.260 --> 00:55:09.539
And that's enough.

1285
00:55:09.539 --> 00:55:10.440
Happiness costume.

1286
00:55:10.500 --> 00:55:12.599
I'm starting to see where that Emmy came from, yeah.

1287
00:55:12.659 --> 00:55:15.179
Yeah, yeah, I think it. yeah, yeah.

1288
00:55:15.239 --> 00:55:17.460
I think it actually might be Majell's gone.

1289
00:55:17.519 --> 00:55:19.079
Gels costumes.

1290
00:55:19.739 --> 00:55:24.840
Like early, early Miguel in Star Trek, she wears very sort of sexy

1291
00:55:24.840 --> 00:55:25.980
costumes.

1292
00:55:25.980 --> 00:55:27.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1293
00:55:27.119 --> 00:55:29.880
A really accentuator figure and show off her breast.

1294
00:55:29.940 --> 00:55:33.780
In this episode, it's all been really frumpy gown.

1295
00:55:33.840 --> 00:55:34.559
Well, she's pregnant.

1296
00:55:34.619 --> 00:55:35.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1297
00:55:35.880 --> 00:55:37.320
But we still have day collartage.

1298
00:55:37.380 --> 00:55:38.940
We still get a bit of...

1299
00:55:38.940 --> 00:55:39.480
It looks beautiful.

1300
00:55:39.539 --> 00:55:40.199
Don't get me wrong.

1301
00:55:40.260 --> 00:55:40.980
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1302
00:55:41.039 --> 00:55:41.639
She's fabulous.

1303
00:55:41.699 --> 00:55:43.860
Oh, I love that.

1304
00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:45.119
She cuts through the crap.

1305
00:55:45.179 --> 00:55:47.880
He starts saying all these reasons as to why she should say and

1306
00:55:47.880 --> 00:55:49.559
she goes, yeah, I'll miss you too, Odo.

1307
00:55:50.219 --> 00:55:52.980
But it's not just that, is it?

1308
00:55:53.039 --> 00:55:54.420
It's not just that.

1309
00:55:54.480 --> 00:55:56.280
She's got it wrong.

1310
00:55:58.079 --> 00:56:01.500
I don't think this lad's at all like that, though.

1311
00:56:01.619 --> 00:56:05.820
What you want is company, someone to take care of, and it's like

1312
00:56:05.820 --> 00:56:06.719
no, that's not it.

1313
00:56:06.840 --> 00:56:10.920
My reading of this was she actually can read him and she knows

1314
00:56:10.920 --> 00:56:13.679
that he loves Kira and not her.

1315
00:56:13.739 --> 00:56:17.519
Whereas you're saying your reading of this is he is in love with

1316
00:56:17.519 --> 00:56:18.900
her and she's not getting it.

1317
00:56:18.960 --> 00:56:21.659
Well, she doesn't, she can't read him, can she?

1318
00:56:21.719 --> 00:56:23.579
We know that from previously.

1319
00:56:23.639 --> 00:56:26.099
The fact that the 2 of us watch this same scene and how 2

1320
00:56:26.099 --> 00:56:28.980
completely different readings suggest that the director wasn't

1321
00:56:28.980 --> 00:56:29.579
really clear.

1322
00:56:29.639 --> 00:56:30.360
No one's worked it out.

1323
00:56:30.420 --> 00:56:31.860
And I think it works well.

1324
00:56:31.920 --> 00:56:34.199
Like as a dramatic episode.

1325
00:56:34.260 --> 00:56:38.639
Maybe less so in the where we're going to take Odo kind of thing

1326
00:56:38.639 --> 00:56:43.199
because we're obviously going to put Odo and Kira together.

1327
00:56:43.260 --> 00:56:49.980
But having his heartbroken here because he can't tell her.

1328
00:56:50.039 --> 00:56:54.599
He can let her in in some ways and she's perfect for that, but he

1329
00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:56.219
can't tell her that he loves her.

1330
00:56:56.219 --> 00:56:59.940
And because she has just not a load of latex, Nathan.

1331
00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:02.519
Yeah, that doesn't work all that does it?

1332
00:57:02.579 --> 00:57:03.480
That's not super tender.

1333
00:57:03.539 --> 00:57:04.440
Oh, she called him husband.

1334
00:57:04.500 --> 00:57:05.579
And he called her white.

1335
00:57:05.579 --> 00:57:06.780
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1336
00:57:06.840 --> 00:57:09.780
You could just see the Star Trek fans going, what?

1337
00:57:09.900 --> 00:57:11.460
What is this?

1338
00:57:11.519 --> 00:57:15.239
But I mean, I do think it doesn't properly land, and that's the

1339
00:57:15.239 --> 00:57:16.199
problem, isn't it?

1340
00:57:16.260 --> 00:57:19.260
It's a shame because it could have been a really great episode

1341
00:57:19.260 --> 00:57:23.340
about Odo getting his heart broken, but it is...

1342
00:57:23.340 --> 00:57:25.800
You know, I started acknowledging we are Star Trek fans.

1343
00:57:25.860 --> 00:57:28.019
We've done nearly 100 episodes of this podcast now.

1344
00:57:28.079 --> 00:57:31.619
I keep talking about them like we're not a part of them.

1345
00:57:31.679 --> 00:57:35.460
No, we are them, but I think we like different things maybe.

1346
00:57:35.519 --> 00:57:39.599
Like, I appreciate a good bit of technobabble and a good bit of

1347
00:57:39.599 --> 00:57:42.119
action on the station and everyone getting their phases and

1348
00:57:42.119 --> 00:57:42.960
tricorders out.

1349
00:57:43.019 --> 00:57:43.380
That's great.

1350
00:57:43.440 --> 00:57:46.559
Here, I thought it was just super lame and was padding out the

1351
00:57:46.559 --> 00:57:47.699
plot.

1352
00:57:47.760 --> 00:57:51.840
He's reading an and celebrity goes, I, I, especially like...

1353
00:57:51.900 --> 00:57:52.440
Like the dad.

1354
00:57:52.500 --> 00:57:53.280
Yeah.

1355
00:57:53.340 --> 00:57:56.519
Although, and of course he does a typical, you know, his game.

1356
00:57:56.579 --> 00:57:57.539
Yeah, the characters are great.

1357
00:57:57.599 --> 00:57:59.880
The plot was engaging. spelling was terrible.

1358
00:57:59.940 --> 00:58:02.039
Yeah, I thought that was really funny.

1359
00:58:02.099 --> 00:58:03.300
That was adorable.

1360
00:58:04.199 --> 00:58:06.719
And this as well.

1361
00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:11.880
You know, whether he can take responsibility for it or not, you

1362
00:58:11.880 --> 00:58:16.139
know, because like the muse, you know, inspiration, like poetic or

1363
00:58:16.139 --> 00:58:20.159
artistic inspiration is so inexplicable that we had the muses to

1364
00:58:20.159 --> 00:58:20.880
explain them.

1365
00:58:20.880 --> 00:58:24.480
And there's a, there's a Socratic dialogue, an early Socratic

1366
00:58:24.480 --> 00:58:28.260
dialogue, which is also about where do writers get their

1367
00:58:28.260 --> 00:58:29.099
inspiration from.

1368
00:58:29.099 --> 00:58:32.400
And we decide that it's got to be divine in some way, because we

1369
00:58:32.400 --> 00:58:33.659
don't know where it comes from.

1370
00:58:33.719 --> 00:58:37.019
And so the muse is a representation of that idea.

1371
00:58:37.260 --> 00:58:42.300
But he's, you know, deciding that he's taking responsibility.

1372
00:58:42.360 --> 00:58:43.139
He wrote this.

1373
00:58:43.199 --> 00:58:47.280
You know, she, you know, inspired him, but they were his words.

1374
00:58:47.400 --> 00:58:50.159
Did you notice now we see his book?

1375
00:58:50.219 --> 00:58:53.099
This was a musical queue from the visitor.

1376
00:58:53.159 --> 00:58:54.840
It's directly from the visitor.

1377
00:58:54.900 --> 00:58:57.119
So they make the link twice over.

1378
00:58:57.179 --> 00:58:58.019
And signing his name.

1379
00:58:58.079 --> 00:58:59.400
He signs his name to it.

1380
00:58:59.400 --> 00:59:02.579
Which is exactly how it is on the front of the book in the Vista.

1381
00:59:02.639 --> 00:59:03.239
Yeah, right.

1382
00:59:03.239 --> 00:59:06.000
But a dreadful sort of hologram version of it.

1383
00:59:06.960 --> 00:59:10.619
But like, and they say something about they needed to follow that

1384
00:59:10.619 --> 00:59:10.920
up.

1385
00:59:10.980 --> 00:59:14.219
They'd never sort of gone anywhere with that after the visitor and

1386
00:59:14.219 --> 00:59:19.800
it's kind of nice to have the origin story of that book in a sort

1387
00:59:19.800 --> 00:59:23.219
of Star Trek science fiction plot that still acknowledges that

1388
00:59:23.219 --> 00:59:23.940
it's his work.

1389
00:59:24.179 --> 00:59:29.099
One of the things that I've realised doing this podcast is just

1390
00:59:29.099 --> 00:59:34.619
how much I love the soap aspects of 90 Streak, but DS9 in

1391
00:59:34.619 --> 00:59:37.019
particular because DS9 only is into it more than all of the

1392
00:59:37.019 --> 00:59:37.320
others.

1393
00:59:37.380 --> 00:59:43.920
And I think the reason why I differentiate you and me from Star

1394
00:59:43.920 --> 00:59:48.719
Trek fandom, is Star Trek fandom as a whole would prefer faces

1395
00:59:48.719 --> 00:59:51.059
which is Star Trek.

1396
00:59:51.059 --> 00:59:54.960
Hycedral, you know, with a bit of horror thrown in and weird

1397
00:59:54.960 --> 00:59:56.219
aliens and all of that.

1398
00:59:56.280 --> 01:00:02.460
I prefer Muse, which is not an entirely successful episode, but

1399
01:00:02.460 --> 01:00:07.500
it's full of art and lovely characters and scenes that mean

1400
01:00:07.500 --> 01:00:09.059
something, you know?

1401
01:00:09.119 --> 01:00:10.139
Yeah.

1402
01:00:10.199 --> 01:00:13.139
So I think I think we are a world apart.

1403
01:00:13.440 --> 01:00:16.500
Star Trek fandom normally is.

1404
01:00:16.559 --> 01:00:21.300
Yeah, I, yeah, I mean, but like, I have to say that, like, it's

1405
01:00:21.300 --> 01:00:24.119
still Star Trek and I still sort of appreciate spaceships and

1406
01:00:24.119 --> 01:00:28.139
space stations and all of that sort of thing, and I like a good

1407
01:00:28.139 --> 01:00:29.460
procedural as well.

1408
01:00:29.519 --> 01:00:35.880
But here the procedural elements were very clearly just inserted

1409
01:00:35.880 --> 01:00:37.019
to beef up.

1410
01:00:37.019 --> 01:00:39.300
What was a fairly linear plot?

1411
01:00:39.360 --> 01:00:40.679
Do you know what I mean?

1412
01:00:40.739 --> 01:00:44.340
To find a way of resolving it in a Star Trek way, which ends up

1413
01:00:44.340 --> 01:00:45.840
being a fairly uninteresting way.

1414
01:00:45.900 --> 01:00:51.539
Like, what's a better way where Jake realises and rejects it

1415
01:00:51.539 --> 01:00:53.519
himself, isn't it?

1416
01:00:53.579 --> 01:00:57.239
Like where he says no go away to her for some reason.

1417
01:00:57.300 --> 01:01:01.440
Well, I wouldn't object, had, had she stimulated the book.

1418
01:01:01.500 --> 01:01:04.320
And then they said goodbye and she went off.

1419
01:01:05.579 --> 01:01:08.579
We still have that scene at the end with him talking to Cisco, go

1420
01:01:08.579 --> 01:01:09.480
we don't need.

1421
01:01:09.539 --> 01:01:11.880
They just feel like they need some kind of drama.

1422
01:01:11.940 --> 01:01:13.440
But it's so empty.

1423
01:01:13.500 --> 01:01:16.679
Yeah, but don't you think that that's their attempt?

1424
01:01:16.739 --> 01:01:20.039
That's what they do to that to turn it into the A-plot?

1425
01:01:20.099 --> 01:01:23.159
Is they put all that boring shit in the end and give it some

1426
01:01:23.159 --> 01:01:26.460
action and stuff and kind of ruin it?

1427
01:01:26.519 --> 01:01:31.559
And because they're not confident with how the B plot's going and

1428
01:01:31.559 --> 01:01:34.559
they're right because the B plot doesn't quite work.

1429
01:01:34.619 --> 01:01:36.300
But it nearly works.

1430
01:01:36.360 --> 01:01:40.440
And again, I think probably the fact that it's a serialised TV

1431
01:01:40.440 --> 01:01:45.659
show where they don't want to take Odo in that direction.

1432
01:01:45.719 --> 01:01:51.659
And having him heartbroken, overlook Xana's departure after a

1433
01:01:51.659 --> 01:01:56.099
really public wedding, so everyone knows what he said.

1434
01:01:56.159 --> 01:01:57.539
Do you know what I mean?

1435
01:01:57.659 --> 01:02:01.559
That's something that they could have gone with, but instead

1436
01:02:01.559 --> 01:02:05.280
because they don't want to do that, they kind of play it all down

1437
01:02:05.280 --> 01:02:07.079
and don't properly commit to it.

1438
01:02:08.219 --> 01:02:10.380
No one ever mentions it again.

1439
01:02:10.440 --> 01:02:12.059
Didn't you get married last week?

1440
01:02:12.119 --> 01:02:12.900
Where's she going?

1441
01:02:12.960 --> 01:02:14.039
Yeah, that's right.

1442
01:02:14.099 --> 01:02:14.820
That's right.

1443
01:02:14.940 --> 01:02:16.679
Yeah, no one ever mentions it again.

1444
01:02:16.739 --> 01:02:20.460
And sure, like that happens all the time in Deep Space 9, even.

1445
01:02:20.519 --> 01:02:23.639
There are things that happen where they kind of go, actually, we're

1446
01:02:23.639 --> 01:02:24.780
not going to take that any further.

1447
01:02:24.840 --> 01:02:25.920
We'll just leave that there.

1448
01:02:25.980 --> 01:02:30.840
We've just had the episode 2 weeks ago where O'Brien tried to

1449
01:02:30.840 --> 01:02:36.780
commit suicide after living out a 50-year prison sentence and was

1450
01:02:36.780 --> 01:02:38.280
talked out of it and was so right.

1451
01:02:38.340 --> 01:02:40.860
You know, being counselling for the next couple of years, we never

1452
01:02:40.860 --> 01:02:41.820
hear about it again.

1453
01:02:41.880 --> 01:02:42.719
That's right.

1454
01:02:42.780 --> 01:02:43.139
That's right.

1455
01:02:43.199 --> 01:02:43.800
Yeah.

1456
01:02:43.860 --> 01:02:46.440
So there are some things that they just decide not to go with and

1457
01:02:46.440 --> 01:02:47.219
that's all fine.

1458
01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:50.099
But it is a little bit of a shame because I do think it, um, you

1459
01:02:50.099 --> 01:02:54.059
know, it just kind of wrecked that plot and I, I kind of like that

1460
01:02:54.059 --> 01:02:54.659
plot.

1461
01:02:54.719 --> 01:02:54.960
I think.

1462
01:02:55.019 --> 01:02:59.219
Just, I, one thing I want to say starter fans is, like sometimes

1463
01:02:59.219 --> 01:03:04.500
step away from what you expect Star Trek to be and just enjoy good

1464
01:03:04.500 --> 01:03:08.699
telly because on the terms of it being an amiable watch with good

1465
01:03:08.699 --> 01:03:10.800
actors delivering good work.

1466
01:03:10.860 --> 01:03:13.739
That's not the worst DS9 episode.

1467
01:03:13.800 --> 01:03:16.679
That's not the worst episode of series four.

1468
01:03:16.739 --> 01:03:18.539
It's a fun watch.

1469
01:03:18.599 --> 01:03:22.260
It's just not delivering anything that those people expect to

1470
01:03:22.260 --> 01:03:22.500
see.

1471
01:03:22.559 --> 01:03:26.460
You know, and it isn't quite as good as it probably should be.

1472
01:03:26.519 --> 01:03:28.500
No, I think that's true as well.

1473
01:03:28.559 --> 01:03:29.579
But it's fun.

1474
01:03:29.639 --> 01:03:31.739
I had fun with it Yeah, me too.

1475
01:03:36.360 --> 01:03:40.440
All right, it's the end of the episode and it is time for us to

1476
01:03:40.440 --> 01:03:43.500
work out what we're going to be watching next time.

1477
01:03:43.559 --> 01:03:48.719
It's my go on the randomiser, and I am going to choose the 3

1478
01:03:48.719 --> 01:03:55.139
series that we have done less than 10% of the episodes of.

1479
01:03:55.380 --> 01:03:57.539
I don't know what they are.

1480
01:03:57.599 --> 01:03:58.019
Tell me.

1481
01:03:58.079 --> 01:04:01.559
So they are Star Trek the animated series.

1482
01:04:01.619 --> 01:04:02.699
Oh great.

1483
01:04:03.420 --> 01:04:06.059
Star Trek, the next generation.

1484
01:04:06.119 --> 01:04:08.159
We haven't done 10%.

1485
01:04:08.280 --> 01:04:09.900
Oh, there's a lot of...

1486
01:04:09.960 --> 01:04:10.260
Yeah.

1487
01:04:10.320 --> 01:04:11.940
And Star Trek enterprise.

1488
01:04:12.239 --> 01:04:13.860
Okay.

1489
01:04:13.920 --> 01:04:16.260
Yeah, so this is a terrible mix.

1490
01:04:16.320 --> 01:04:18.360
I think there's a one in three, Charles.

1491
01:04:18.420 --> 01:04:20.340
We're going to get something truly abysmal then.

1492
01:04:20.460 --> 01:04:22.559
Yeah, oh, I think it'd be higher than that.

1493
01:04:23.699 --> 01:04:25.679
Go on, then, off you go.

1494
01:04:25.800 --> 01:04:26.340
Here goes.

1495
01:04:26.460 --> 01:04:29.099
Oh, now this is a two-parter.

1496
01:04:29.159 --> 01:04:30.780
We would have to watch both of them.

1497
01:04:30.900 --> 01:04:32.579
I've got the time, don't worry.

1498
01:04:32.639 --> 01:04:34.019
Part two.

1499
01:04:34.619 --> 01:04:39.059
Your random Star Trek, The Next Generation episode is birthright

1500
01:04:39.059 --> 01:04:40.079
part two.

1501
01:04:40.440 --> 01:04:44.699
Oh, wow, do you know that's the one that's set on DS 9, isn't it?

1502
01:04:44.760 --> 01:04:48.119
Yeah, yeah, but only episode one is set on DS9 and then all of

1503
01:04:48.119 --> 01:04:49.619
that goes away for episode two.

1504
01:04:49.679 --> 01:04:51.480
I believe only episode one is any good as well.

1505
01:04:51.539 --> 01:04:52.980
I seem to remember episode 2 then.

1506
01:04:53.039 --> 01:04:54.119
Very boring.

1507
01:04:54.239 --> 01:04:58.739
So it's like a Klingon colony that's isolated or something and

1508
01:04:58.739 --> 01:05:01.139
Wharf has to teach them true Klingon ways.

1509
01:05:01.199 --> 01:05:05.219
Data's having dreams about birds, boy, flying.

1510
01:05:05.280 --> 01:05:06.360
Well, that's in episode one.

1511
01:05:06.420 --> 01:05:09.480
And it's got that wonderful scene where Bashir comes on board the

1512
01:05:09.480 --> 01:05:15.360
Enterprise and he asks Data if his hair grows, which is so great.

1513
01:05:15.420 --> 01:05:19.500
It's so funny as well, because it's early Bashir when Sid was

1514
01:05:19.500 --> 01:05:21.300
doing like the dreadful British accent.

1515
01:05:21.360 --> 01:05:24.000
So he sort of walks in one scene and goes, data?

1516
01:05:24.059 --> 01:05:25.079
What's going on?

1517
01:05:25.559 --> 01:05:27.599
No, press it again.

1518
01:05:27.659 --> 01:05:28.860
I feel like I was All right.

1519
01:05:28.920 --> 01:05:29.460
Yeah, no.

1520
01:05:29.519 --> 01:05:36.539
All right, your random Star Trek Enterprise episode is season 3

1521
01:05:36.539 --> 01:05:39.900
episode 3, Extinction.

1522
01:05:39.960 --> 01:05:43.260
We've done one Zindi one, haven't we?

1523
01:05:43.320 --> 01:05:44.699
Because I'm sure that I've made fun of them.

1524
01:05:44.820 --> 01:05:45.719
Yeah.

1525
01:05:46.019 --> 01:05:49.440
You've made fun of them on episodes when we weren't covering it as

1526
01:05:49.440 --> 01:05:49.679
well.

1527
01:05:49.739 --> 01:05:50.519
Oh, that's right.

1528
01:05:50.579 --> 01:05:51.840
Nothing else to talk about.

1529
01:05:52.019 --> 01:05:59.880
Okay, this is Star Trek Enterprise season 2, episode 24, 1st

1530
01:05:59.880 --> 01:06:00.539
flight.

1531
01:06:01.199 --> 01:06:03.960
Oh, that's the one.

1532
01:06:04.079 --> 01:06:06.360
Well, we keep getting flashbacks.

1533
01:06:06.420 --> 01:06:09.420
It's Archer in the bar with a fella before they left Earth.

1534
01:06:09.480 --> 01:06:10.800
Right.

1535
01:06:10.920 --> 01:06:14.579
Just before the end of that season.

1536
01:06:14.639 --> 01:06:20.039
It's not like 1159, is it, in Voyager, where you've got...

1537
01:06:20.039 --> 01:06:22.679
And Kate Mulgrew getting to act her socks off.

1538
01:06:22.739 --> 01:06:23.760
Yeah, okay.

1539
01:06:23.820 --> 01:06:24.119
No.

1540
01:06:24.480 --> 01:06:30.599
Okay, season five, episode 9 of Star Trek, the Next Generation, a

1541
01:06:30.599 --> 01:06:31.739
matter of time.

1542
01:06:31.860 --> 01:06:33.780
Oh, let's do that.

1543
01:06:33.840 --> 01:06:35.099
That's a fun one.

1544
01:06:35.159 --> 01:06:36.360
Matt Frewer, isn't it?

1545
01:06:36.420 --> 01:06:37.920
It's Matt Frewer. as a guest star.

1546
01:06:38.039 --> 01:06:38.820
Robin Williams?

1547
01:06:38.880 --> 01:06:39.239
you sure?

1548
01:06:39.300 --> 01:06:41.880
Yeah, I don't think he was available.

1549
01:06:41.940 --> 01:06:46.440
And so we got Matt Frewery in Mac's headroom to be the guy and

1550
01:06:46.440 --> 01:06:47.460
he's super annoying.

1551
01:06:47.519 --> 01:06:50.400
It's another one of those sort of great guest actor ones.

1552
01:06:50.519 --> 01:06:54.000
It isn't like, I'm not sure it's a great episode, but it has got

1553
01:06:54.000 --> 01:06:59.039
one of the best ever Picard lines where finally, they've bested

1554
01:06:59.039 --> 01:07:03.360
Matt Frewer, and he goes, and by the way, Mr. Rasmussen, welcome

1555
01:07:03.360 --> 01:07:07.380
to the 24th century. century, yeah.

1556
01:07:07.440 --> 01:07:12.059
Oh, I think that's a good mid-level film TNG episode.

1557
01:07:12.119 --> 01:07:13.079
Yeah, yeah.

1558
01:07:13.139 --> 01:07:13.559
Okay.

1559
01:07:13.619 --> 01:07:14.760
I think I could go for that.

1560
01:07:14.820 --> 01:07:18.960
I do remember it's got the worst ever designed aliens in it.

1561
01:07:19.019 --> 01:07:21.000
They might be our new Beau Mars.

1562
01:07:21.059 --> 01:07:22.199
Oh excellent.

1563
01:07:22.260 --> 01:07:24.599
Because obviously there's some, there's a, there's like a dreadful

1564
01:07:24.599 --> 01:07:26.340
catastrophe occurring, isn't there?

1565
01:07:26.460 --> 01:07:27.900
that Matt Frewer knows about.

1566
01:07:27.960 --> 01:07:32.340
Oh, should you get involved, Captain, or should you not?

1567
01:07:32.400 --> 01:07:33.840
He's super annoying.

1568
01:07:33.900 --> 01:07:37.260
That's right We keep coming back to these boring aliens going

1569
01:07:37.260 --> 01:07:38.340
Captain Picard.

1570
01:07:38.400 --> 01:07:41.099
Help us out, please. really bad.

1571
01:07:41.159 --> 01:07:41.880
Sounds awesome.

1572
01:07:41.940 --> 01:07:44.460
I think that's the 5th 90s trek on the trot.

1573
01:07:45.000 --> 01:07:47.039
We do have to get through them.

1574
01:07:54.480 --> 01:07:58.440
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1575
01:07:58.440 --> 01:07:59.519
and Nathan Bottomley.

1576
01:07:59.579 --> 01:08:03.000
We're online at untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find

1577
01:08:03.000 --> 01:08:06.000
subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1578
01:08:06.119 --> 01:08:10.019
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was

1579
01:08:10.019 --> 01:08:11.579
composed by Cameron Lamb.

1580
01:08:11.639 --> 01:08:15.900
This episode was recorded on the 30th of January 2024 and released

1581
01:08:15.900 --> 01:08:17.340
on the 2nd of February.

1582
01:08:17.399 --> 01:08:21.180
We'll see you next time for Star Trek the Next Generation, a

1583
01:08:21.180 --> 01:08:21.539
matter of time.

1584
01:08:40.619 --> 01:08:42.960
Yeah, I reckon that's all right.

1585
01:08:43.020 --> 01:08:43.560
I don't mind.

1586
01:08:43.619 --> 01:08:45.720
Oh, yeah, yeah.

1587
01:08:45.840 --> 01:08:48.180
I think we'll still be behind.

1588
01:08:48.600 --> 01:08:51.899
They were the 3 that are less than 10%.

1589
01:08:52.859 --> 01:08:56.340
So, yeah, the only 3 that are less.

1590
01:08:56.399 --> 01:09:00.539
Oh, probably kick us into Kurtzman next time because it's been a

1591
01:09:00.539 --> 01:09:00.779
while.

1592
01:09:00.840 --> 01:09:02.100
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1593
01:09:02.159 --> 01:09:02.460
Yeah.

1594
01:09:02.579 --> 01:09:02.880
Yeah.

1595
01:09:02.939 --> 01:09:08.100
We did our big Hertzman, didn't we, when we did, um, But that was

1596
01:09:08.100 --> 01:09:10.199
the 1st one this year that we came back.

1597
01:09:10.319 --> 01:09:13.800
I might just put in discovery actually, because I feel like we

1598
01:09:13.800 --> 01:09:15.359
haven't done discovery for a long, long time.

1599
01:09:15.420 --> 01:09:21.239
So we are 7 out of 55, 12.73% of discovery.

1600
01:09:21.300 --> 01:09:25.079
So there's only going to be 65 episodes of discovery overall.

1601
01:09:25.140 --> 01:09:26.279
Yeah.

1602
01:09:26.340 --> 01:09:26.819
Yeah.

1603
01:09:27.720 --> 01:09:30.359
Yeah, less than original track.

1604
01:09:30.420 --> 01:09:35.279
Yeah. 100 less than 3 of the 90 shows.

1605
01:09:35.340 --> 01:09:36.479
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1606
01:09:36.539 --> 01:09:41.279
But, you know, like it was, it was where they cut their teeth on

1607
01:09:41.279 --> 01:09:44.220
things and where they got to make all their mistakes and stuff.

1608
01:09:44.279 --> 01:09:47.760
We said about transit the other day, you know, without these

1609
01:09:47.760 --> 01:09:50.399
mistakes being made, we wouldn't be where we are today.

1610
01:09:50.460 --> 01:09:54.119
No discovery, we don't get strange new worlds, you know, we don't

1611
01:09:54.119 --> 01:09:54.899
get lower decks.

1612
01:09:54.960 --> 01:09:55.800
We don't get any of it.

1613
01:09:55.859 --> 01:09:56.760
We don't get that.

1614
01:09:56.819 --> 01:10:00.600
And like you pointing out many times, in many ways, it's the

1615
01:10:00.600 --> 01:10:01.800
boldest of all of those.

1616
01:10:01.859 --> 01:10:03.659
Yeah.

1617
01:10:03.720 --> 01:10:10.140
The most DS9 like version of Star Trek in the new series, I

1618
01:10:10.140 --> 01:10:10.319
think.

1619
01:10:13.380 --> 01:10:14.460
Anyway.

1620
01:10:14.460 --> 01:10:16.020
I forget which ones we done.

1621
01:10:16.920 --> 01:10:19.380
Of DS of Discovery.

1622
01:10:19.439 --> 01:10:20.279
Discovery.

1623
01:10:20.340 --> 01:10:22.859
We did we did the trio one.

1624
01:10:23.399 --> 01:10:27.000
Oh, we did at the end of season, didn't we?

1625
01:10:27.060 --> 01:10:27.960
end of season three.

1626
01:10:28.020 --> 01:10:29.640
We did with the green lady.

1627
01:10:29.640 --> 01:10:31.859
Yeah, we did.

1628
01:10:31.920 --> 01:10:33.779
No, was it that HSU part two?

1629
01:10:33.840 --> 01:10:35.699
Asire.

1630
01:10:35.760 --> 01:10:39.479
We did one episode in series four.

1631
01:10:39.479 --> 01:10:41.100
Magic to make the sanest man go mad.

1632
01:10:41.159 --> 01:10:44.100
We did the Time Loop episode with Rain Wilson.

1633
01:10:44.159 --> 01:10:47.699
Volving ambition, which was a boring one in the mirror universe

1634
01:10:47.699 --> 01:10:49.680
the most boring episode of series one.

1635
01:10:49.800 --> 01:10:54.539
If memory serves, also maybe the most boring episode of series two

1636
01:10:54.539 --> 01:10:58.680
um, Forget Me Not, which was just stunningly beautiful from series

1637
01:10:58.680 --> 01:10:59.100
three.

1638
01:10:59.159 --> 01:11:00.420
That's the one with some.

1639
01:11:01.920 --> 01:11:03.119
Yeah, that's the true one.

1640
01:11:03.180 --> 01:11:05.340
We do the climax of series 3 as well, didn't we?

1641
01:11:05.399 --> 01:11:08.819
We did that hope is you part two, which is episode 17 of series.

1642
01:11:08.880 --> 01:11:11.760
And then we did the one where book went off at the end in the

1643
01:11:11.760 --> 01:11:13.739
midseason break in series 4, do you remember?

1644
01:11:13.800 --> 01:11:14.279
We did that one.

1645
01:11:14.340 --> 01:11:16.020
Yeah, so that's but to connect.

1646
01:11:16.079 --> 01:11:17.819
So the examples, remember?

1647
01:11:17.880 --> 01:11:21.359
Remember that handsome guy?

1648
01:11:21.420 --> 01:11:22.079
The prisoners.

1649
01:11:22.140 --> 01:11:22.439
Yeah.

1650
01:11:22.500 --> 01:11:23.279
Yeah, yeah.

1651
01:11:23.340 --> 01:11:25.140
Which I've got quite a few then.

1652
01:11:25.199 --> 01:11:32.760
And but to connect, which is, the, where they're trying to decide

1653
01:11:32.760 --> 01:11:35.460
what to do about the, what do they call?

1654
01:11:35.520 --> 01:11:36.359
The 10 C.

1655
01:11:36.420 --> 01:11:37.199
Yeah.

1656
01:11:37.260 --> 01:11:40.260
I feel like there's a lot of good discovery we haven't done yet

1657
01:11:40.260 --> 01:11:42.300
then, because a lot of those are bit dumb.

1658
01:11:42.359 --> 01:11:46.739
Yeah, that 2nd half of series 4 is magic.

1659
01:11:46.800 --> 01:11:47.699
It's so great.

1660
01:11:47.760 --> 01:11:48.960
Fuck, it's good.

1661
01:11:49.020 --> 01:11:50.399
I just couldn't believe it.

1662
01:11:50.460 --> 01:11:51.180
Each episode.

1663
01:11:51.479 --> 01:11:53.220
Who said to me?

1664
01:11:53.279 --> 01:11:54.180
Oh, Colin Neal.

1665
01:11:54.239 --> 01:11:55.739
He didn't get on without at all.

1666
01:11:55.859 --> 01:11:57.899
The series 4.

1667
01:11:57.899 --> 01:11:59.579
Series 4 as a whole, yeah.

1668
01:11:59.640 --> 01:12:01.560
Yeah, no, I liked it a lot.

1669
01:12:01.619 --> 01:12:02.640
I think it's the best season.

1670
01:12:02.699 --> 01:12:09.479
I think your opinion is... the widely perceived opinion. was the

1671
01:12:09.479 --> 01:12:10.140
best season, yeah.

1672
01:12:10.199 --> 01:12:15.119
Yeah, it sort of lands, but that, like, it gets the serialisation

1673
01:12:15.119 --> 01:12:16.619
absolutely perfect.

1674
01:12:16.680 --> 01:12:21.600
Like each episode is about a thing and contributes to a big

1675
01:12:21.600 --> 01:12:27.180
science fiction plot where they actually do science fiction and

1676
01:12:27.180 --> 01:12:30.960
like, and it's about reaching out with some aliens that are

1677
01:12:30.960 --> 01:12:33.840
completely incommensurate with anything that we know or

1678
01:12:33.840 --> 01:12:34.619
understand.

1679
01:12:34.680 --> 01:12:38.460
So it's really, really proper Star Trek.

1680
01:12:38.520 --> 01:12:41.159
And, you know, it's that thing, the thing that they're trying to

1681
01:12:41.159 --> 01:12:45.960
decide in, but to connect is, do we send a bomb to the 10 C or do

1682
01:12:45.960 --> 01:12:49.260
we reach out after they've destroyed Books Planet?

1683
01:12:49.319 --> 01:12:50.279
Do you know what I mean?

1684
01:12:50.340 --> 01:12:53.100
and look like they're going to kill more.

1685
01:12:53.159 --> 01:12:56.220
I think as I still remember to have Sanequa staring off camera

1686
01:12:56.220 --> 01:12:58.380
every now and again, tears in the eyes.

1687
01:12:58.500 --> 01:13:02.460
Do you remember, but to connect, where he leaves the ship, where

1688
01:13:02.460 --> 01:13:06.300
book leaves discovery and his shit, and she's just there going

1689
01:13:06.300 --> 01:13:06.779
shit.

1690
01:13:06.840 --> 01:13:11.220
You know, we just, you know, we go out of a midseason break and it

1691
01:13:11.220 --> 01:13:12.239
was, that was great.

1692
01:13:12.300 --> 01:13:15.300
I'll be interesting to see with five.

1693
01:13:15.300 --> 01:13:20.279
I just feel like the one, the 2 that we did in, or the characters

1694
01:13:20.279 --> 01:13:21.600
were just there at that point.

1695
01:13:21.659 --> 01:13:24.899
They were just, they were formed, they were delivering.

1696
01:13:24.960 --> 01:13:27.180
The actors were all great together.

1697
01:13:27.239 --> 01:13:30.060
We were just, so it would be interesting to see with the last

1698
01:13:30.060 --> 01:13:30.420
season.

1699
01:13:30.479 --> 01:13:32.039
It'd be interesting to see how they end it.

1700
01:13:32.100 --> 01:13:35.100
I think it's a caper or a heist or something too.

1701
01:13:35.159 --> 01:13:37.319
Like it sounds like they're going to be a bit more fun.

1702
01:13:38.220 --> 01:13:41.819
Yeah, yeah, I think that would be that would be great

1703
01:13:41.880 --> 01:13:43.319
particularly.

1704
01:13:43.380 --> 01:13:45.840
And looking over their shoulder at Stranger Wells and going, oh

1705
01:13:45.840 --> 01:13:47.460
look at all the fun they're having over there.

1706
01:13:47.579 --> 01:13:50.640
They are having fun over there, and but we could do a big

1707
01:13:50.640 --> 01:13:53.159
serialised story, which we do every year.

1708
01:13:53.220 --> 01:13:57.899
Like that's what we do on Star Trek Discovery.

1709
01:13:57.960 --> 01:14:02.520
So we get to do a single big heist over 10 episodes, which I think

1710
01:14:02.520 --> 01:14:03.300
will be really fun.

1711
01:14:03.359 --> 01:14:04.920
Yeah, sounds great.

1712
01:14:04.979 --> 01:14:05.760
Yeah, yeah.

1713
01:14:05.819 --> 01:14:07.020
And that starts in April.

1714
01:14:07.140 --> 01:14:12.060
So, so we get that in April on Doctor Who in May.

1715
01:14:12.119 --> 01:14:13.560
Hmm?

1716
01:14:13.560 --> 01:14:14.640
Yeah.

1717
01:14:14.699 --> 01:14:15.840
Happy days.