WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 23:24:21

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, we are back for our second muse based episode in the last few months.

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So towards the end of last year, we did Voyager series six, episode 22, which was called Muse.

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And I have to confess that during the kind of editing process, I couldn't remember what it was called, Muse, or the Muse, and that changed a few times, and I finally got it ironed out and got the right time.

5
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Yeah.

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And that was episode 87.

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I'm untitled Star Trek Project.

8
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Now, this is episode 96, and we're doing an episode called The Muse, which is Star Trek Deep Space 9 series 4, episode 21, and I gather that this is not well regarded.

9
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Is that right?

10
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Not by anybody, I don't think.

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It sort of lingers down the bottom of DS9 poles when they're talking about their overall series.

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It's certainly at the bottom of any series 4 poll.

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And reading memory alpha.

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I don't think the production team have many kind of things to say about this either.

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There's a very amusing anecdote there about how most script meetings tend to be sort of 3 days long for an episode.

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And this had such a trouble gestation. 6 days it took for them to beat this script into shape.

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The longest in DS9's entire run.

18
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But yet, it's not the worst episode of Deep Space 9 that we've done.

19
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What do you think is?

20
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Oh, I'm dramatically thinking about this persona.

21
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

22
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Yeah.

23
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Because this had a lovely clock in it.

24
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It did have a lovely clock in it.

25
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This is 2 plots that are pretty thin. and they're so thin actually that they find a bit over which one they're going to make the A plot and which one they're going to make the B plot.

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So originally this was an episode about Loaxana and Odo, which was called playing house.

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She was going to turn up pregnant and it was going to be his baby.

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That was the original idea.

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I mean, I'm glad they didn't go with that. kind of terrible.

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Because what?

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Because he melted in her lap or something in the lift the previous year.

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Let's not go there.

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Yuck.

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And then it becomes the muse after the other plot.

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So we will call the Muse plot, the A plot, and the Luaksan and Odo plot, the B plot.

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And I actually thought, though they were thin, they weren't offensive, and they weren't kind of tedious.

37
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They're both sort of reasonably short.

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It a 45 minute episode, you know, each one clocks in at a bit over 20 minutes.

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I went into this expecting for it to live up to its poor reputation and for this to be really, like, home got just destroyed bad.

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And I came out of here thinking, oh, I was quite entertained for that 45 minutes.

41
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And that's all right.

42
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Star Trek is okay if it does say, you know, because there's plenty of episodes where we don't come out. 45, we're just thinking that.

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Like I thought this was better than last week's faces, for instance, you know, which is a high concept Voyager episode, which I imagine everyone involved is sort of reasonably proud of.

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Here, I think this one's lifted by just an amazing guest performance.

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Like, incredible.

46
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Yeah, gee she's great.

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So this is Meg Foster is Anaya.

48
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And I said last week, I think in last week's episode that she was Cagney and Cagney and Lacey, but what I didn't know is that Cagney and Lacey was a mid-season replacement that only ran for 6 episodes in its 1st season and she only played Cagney in those 6 episodes before she was let go for being too aggressive and potentially lesbian.

49
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So, yeah, I know.

50
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Yeah, going for that reason. that's right.

51
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That's what I should have kept her on.

52
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Well, I mean, yes.

53
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So she was like, go, she is 47, I think, when this episode airs and she is absolutely sexy as hell.

54
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Holy crap. sexuality, doesn't she?

55
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She really does.

56
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In fact, Rede H.

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Chivaria says, Meg Foster was perfection, and I receive a bear says she's so seductive and interesting.

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You know, you can fall inside those eyes.

59
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So they were clearly all on the set, a little bit bewitched by Meg Foster while she was shooting this.

60
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There's always a problem, I think, when the writers introduce a character who's a writer, right?

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in their TV show because they start to kind of show their ass a bit when that happens.

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And so this is an episode where a very, very beautiful woman seduces the writer and gives him neck massages and all of that sort of stuff while he's writing and fawns over him and says how wonderful he is and ensures that they achieve sort of immortality.

63
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So it is a little bit of a writerly wank fantasy.

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It's like my TV treatment, which is about a Latin teacher who solves crimes and occasionally overthrows capitalism.

65
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Do you know what I mean?

66
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Like it is absolutely a thing.

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And Jake is always a little bit like that.

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He's a writer and we get to discuss rightly concerns on the show and because all of the people writing it a writer is that becomes a sort of thing.

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But I thought this was great.

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I don't lean into that as much as I probably could, do they?

71
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This is the sort of stuff they lie to, you know, some bewitching woman comes along and can sense his astonishing writing talent and start stroking him seductively.

72
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As you say, the writers are there writing this stuff going.

73
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Oh, yeah.

74
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This should happen in real life.

75
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Yeah.

76
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Does anyone have a big Foster's number?

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she is terrific in this.

78
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But I do think the other plot as well.

79
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I'm not the biggest fan of Luaxana Troy.

80
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I think those episodes can be hit and miss.

81
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We've done one before, and it was definitely a miss.

82
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That was a very bad episode, but she's not normally that bad.

83
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I mean, that was an extremely poor episode.

84
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That was manhunt from series 2 of Star Trek the Next Generation when the writer strikes on and they're just trying to fill time until the closing credits can happen.

85
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What's great about it, though, is she she bowls into TNG and brings a bit of fucking life to the show, you know?

86
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And she ain't interested in protocol and having to stick up her arse and all of this.

87
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So naturally they all sort of hate her a bit because she's she's enjoying her life and they're not.

88
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She comes on to DS9 and they can't really do the same sort of thing because everyone is a bit more relaxed on this show.

89
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So instead they pair her up with Odo.

90
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So they do the forsaken in series one, which starts out as a Luaxana Troy pursues Odo episode, and you're thinking, oh, well, we know how this is going to go.

91
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And then they wind up stuck in a lift together.

92
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And ultimately becomes something very moving where Odo, for the 1st time in the entire series, opens up to somebody.

93
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And she basically, she says to him, you know, I really like you how you are, and no one's ever said that to him before.

94
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So suddenly there's a link between the 2 of them.

95
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Unfortunately, they then start to undo all that good work in series 3 where they bring her on back onto the station and she's got a sex virus.

96
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Obviously every show's got to do a sex virus episode.

97
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It's given in Star Trek.

98
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It's like Sarek, isn't it?

99
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Like, but it's... a voracious appetite for Odo extends to the entire crew and suddenly you've got Jake Sisco coming onto Kira and Dax and Cisco are fucking and all this crazy stuff's going on.

100
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And they sort of lose the way of the Odo Luaxana relationship.

101
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But I think they address that here.

102
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And I think that part of this episode where it's just 2 adults that have forged mature friendship together.

103
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Leaning on each other.

104
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I thought that worked really, really well here.

105
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I'm not sure the writing because it's a very sitcom episode in the terms of he has to get married to her and all this crazy stuff that's going on.

106
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But I believe the performances.

107
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I believe they sell the friendship in the performances.

108
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I don't think any of this is convincing, but I believe the relationship.

109
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See, I think that the director doesn't quite know what to do here and I think... himself.

110
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Yeah.

111
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Yeah.

112
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Well, probably talk about it going in, but I think that what happens is we start by expecting what we got in the forsaken or, say, in cost of living, you know, cost of living in Star Trek, the Next Generation has her kind of trying to escape her husband who is, you know, controlling and wants to.

113
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She does fall down this rabbit hole quite a bit, doesn't she?

114
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Yeah.

115
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So it's the same sort of thing.

116
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And so we're expecting a sitcom and we get, that's how Odo is playing it initially, is that he thinks that she's going to come onto him.

117
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And, and that kind of is interesting when it then gives way to their kind of relationship.

118
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But I think what that B plot really wants is we should be interpreting what's going on that way.

119
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It's a sitcom, it's like Santa Troy, you know, wacky things happen and there's sort of comedy.

120
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But what we then discover is that the reason that Odo is trying to avoid her is that he's in love with her, and then at the wedding, when he declares how important she is to him.

121
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He's telling the truth because he really, really is in love with her.

122
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And he means all of that stuff.

123
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I know there's the inference in the writing, but it's really there in the performance.

124
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It's how Renee plays that scene.

125
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And I actually had forgotten that she can't read him, and that's one of the things because what I thought would have been perfect is, of course, if she had realised that he was telling the truth, but the more tragic thing is that she doesn't know that.

126
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And so when she goes back to Beta Zed, He's heartbroken because his true love has gone.

127
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And I think they don't kind of want to properly commit to that possibly because they see Kira and Odo getting together later.

128
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Just coming up the track now.

129
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Yeah, yeah.

130
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Whereas I think that this works really well.

131
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We think that it's a sitcom.

132
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We misinterpret Odo's behaviour, then we discover why he's really behaving like this, and it's actually really sort of heartbreaking.

133
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And it's agreeable, but I don't think it's quite as good as it could have been if it had properly committed to that.

134
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Certainly not to like the heights of the best of Odo, Kira, that we can before and after, yeah.

135
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I do really like I love the honesty between the 2 of them though.

136
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And I like how, because Star Trek usually does, isn't this blunt.

137
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I like it when he she goes into his quarters and she's fallen asleep in his lap and he just goes, there's nothing wrong with your replicator, is there?

138
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And she goes, no.

139
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And at the end, I like the fact that she comes in and she goes, look, you're not in love with me, so I'm going home.

140
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And it's just so to the point.

141
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And Star Trek doesn't do this.

142
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It's quite refreshing.

143
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I think they discover in half a life. in Star Trek the Next Generation, how good Majel is.

144
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And when you don't just give her sort of auntie maime stuff to do, when you give her proper serious things to do, she actually really rises to it.

145
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And the Forsaken, I think, is amazing for that reason.

146
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Remember she takes the wig off.

147
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Like it's like she takes...

148
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Yeah, yeah.

149
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She takes that mask off.

150
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She says it's my hair.

151
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She goes, sometimes we all have to wear masks, so don't.

152
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Yeah.

153
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I so gorgeous.

154
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It's it's so moving.

155
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And she's terrific in this.

156
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And this is her last on-screen appearance in Star Trek.

157
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Oh, I don't, I wonder if they wanted us to do more, but I don't think she was very happy with how DS9 was progressing and the wolf footing was going, and she was quite vocal about Gene wouldn't have been happy about it.

158
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So I think maybe it was her decision not to do it, which is a shame because I think she, there was probably another. they could have developed this further.

159
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Yeah, but I thought that was good.

160
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Like, I didn't think it was a good ending and I thought it was a kind of unsatisfactory ending in some ways.

161
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It leaves something unresolved.

162
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It's a bit like life rather than just sort of tying everything up in a neat little bow.

163
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And certainly her performance in this episode is really good as well.

164
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Well, that's that concludes our very positive reading on the muse.

165
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We'll see you next week, actually.

166
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Look, it's no a night in Sick Bay, but it is pretty good.

167
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One last thing before we go in.

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I would like you to please keep an eye out for John Paul Loner, who won a walk-on role for designing the winning makeup for Alien of the week this week.

169
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I'm going to describe what he looks like because he's only in the 1st scene, right, coming out.

170
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

171
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He's got a sort of a head like an arse.

172
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So he's designing them, you know, the scan of sort of Ferengi head.

173
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We used to say bum headed alien, a BHA.

174
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Like.

175
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The bum part is blue. sort of wrapped around it is sort of like a weird sort of skull shape and a bit that sort of comes around his nose as well.

176
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Okay.

177
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Anyway, keep an eye out for him, all right?

178
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Because he's spent some time designing this makeup that is now having to wear on set.

179
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Also bafflingly, this is nominated for an Emmy for costuming.

180
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I was watching this going, yeah, Muse, I would, I would understand the Muse.

181
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The Muse.

182
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Did they get the wrong episode?

183
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I think Muse won an Emmy, didn't it, for costume as well?

184
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I think it got a nomination for costume, yeah.

185
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I think so.

186
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Yeah.

187
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Wait till you see what this fella's wearing in the alien makeup.

188
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See white.

189
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Okay, let's do it.

190
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Come on.

191
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Let us do it.

192
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I'll count us in.

193
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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

194
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I thought this was an amazingly quick opening.

195
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It's very strange, isn't it, not having a captain's log or anything like that.

196
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And it's not anywhere along.

197
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Why a few designs that forego the captain's log, though?

198
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Because I think a lot of disk 9 is day in the life on the station.

199
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

200
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So we have Jake, and Sirik Lofton is 17 at this point. cute as a bum, isn't he?

201
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It's cute.

202
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There is no, that's a bowling.

203
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No, that's a bowling with a wig.

204
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Yeah, there's Cliff bowl board?

205
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I wanna know that.

206
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Is Cliff Bowl board?

207
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Bald?

208
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I'm not sure Why'd you ask?

209
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Well, just the Bolians were sort of famously bald.

210
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There he is.

211
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Oh, there he is.

212
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Next to Meg Foster.

213
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Oh, he only had a very brief shot.

214
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He wasn't much of an actor. had to cut away.

215
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Look at her eyes.

216
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I know.

217
00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:32.039
I think the forehead's a bit of a shame.

218
00:15:32.039 --> 00:15:37.320
And I, you know, kind of kept thinking, why did we have to stick a fucking latex for it on it?

219
00:15:37.379 --> 00:15:38.820
Can't she just be an alien without that?

220
00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:44.879
I mean, she's still absolutely stunning and incredibly sexy all the way through.

221
00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:49.500
I said this to you the other day and I'm going to say it to you again.

222
00:15:49.559 --> 00:15:54.360
We spend a fair bit of time on the promenade in this episode and I just love that set.

223
00:15:54.419 --> 00:15:56.820
I love that set and how they fill it full of funky aliens.

224
00:15:56.879 --> 00:15:57.899
Yeah, yeah.

225
00:15:57.960 --> 00:15:59.460
Never quite know what you're going to see next.

226
00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:03.179
Uh-oh, here's mislikes Anna Troy, and she is pregnant.

227
00:16:03.299 --> 00:16:05.519
Yeah, yeah.

228
00:16:05.940 --> 00:16:08.639
Oh, now you're right.

229
00:16:08.700 --> 00:16:13.259
This absolutely feels like DS not in the sitcom, you know, oh, oh, no, I'm pregnant.

230
00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:15.840
Cue the music.

231
00:16:15.899 --> 00:16:18.120
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely it is.

232
00:16:18.659 --> 00:16:23.580
Now, has that obeyed Nathan Bottomley, pre-title sequence rule number one?

233
00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:29.940
Well, it has introduced both plots, and we've gone just from one plot to another.

234
00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:31.500
It's a fairly short sequence.

235
00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:36.000
So we establish that he's a writer and we get that eye contact.

236
00:16:36.059 --> 00:16:38.820
Like he's looking at her trying to theorise about who she is.

237
00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:46.139
Remember, he's making characters up for his writing and they make eye contact like she sees him and he looks away.

238
00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:47.039
And so that's a thing.

239
00:16:47.100 --> 00:16:51.120
And then, of course, we get the big, I'm pregnant reveal, which never gets explained.

240
00:16:51.179 --> 00:16:54.600
She does say it's a miracle, which I think is rather delightful.

241
00:16:54.659 --> 00:16:57.299
You see the beginning of that title sequence there.

242
00:16:57.360 --> 00:17:03.299
You know, I always forget because DS9 is usually a thriving hub of activity, just sort of how lonely out in space they are.

243
00:17:03.299 --> 00:17:09.180
At the beginning of the Tarticans, we sort of start on stars and then come around and DS9 is like far in the distance.

244
00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:09.539
Yeah.

245
00:17:09.539 --> 00:17:13.019
You forget, don't they, that they're out, they're out on the frontier on their own.

246
00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:18.539
Well, I mean, that was what the, that was what it was telling earlier, wasn't it?

247
00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:20.700
It's not eventually what the show goes with.

248
00:17:20.759 --> 00:17:23.759
But that's the original...

249
00:17:23.819 --> 00:17:33.420
I think it's a shame that they didn't leave it by Bajor, though, because I just like having, every time they do it, we go back to the occupation and things like that and the planet's there, it's just more visual. looks really good.

250
00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:37.079
Well, you get the sun, the light from the sun coming through the windows and stuff.

251
00:17:37.259 --> 00:17:40.440
I think it's cheaper. not to do that.

252
00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:45.059
I think you could be right. think that's why they do it.

253
00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:48.119
Oh, okay, right.

254
00:17:48.180 --> 00:17:51.059
Yeah, it is a very tall tile sequence, though, isn't it?

255
00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:53.160
Let's be honest.

256
00:17:53.220 --> 00:17:55.019
I'll do certainly not. skip it.

257
00:17:55.079 --> 00:17:55.980
Prodigy.

258
00:17:56.819 --> 00:18:03.420
Even when they've upped the tempo, you know, season 4 onwards. marginally, not a lot.

259
00:18:04.259 --> 00:18:08.160
There's more little things, and there's a bit of a bass going behind it.

260
00:18:08.220 --> 00:18:10.920
Yeah, it's a miracle. miracle.

261
00:18:10.980 --> 00:18:12.960
I never thought I could have another baby.

262
00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:15.900
After the last one, you should have stopped there.

263
00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:18.599
Oh, no, come on, then, Siana, she's fantastic.

264
00:18:19.380 --> 00:18:24.180
Are the other guest star who deserves a mention too is Michael and Sarah?

265
00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:25.920
What else has he done?

266
00:18:25.980 --> 00:18:28.140
So he is Kang.

267
00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:31.259
And so of course he is.

268
00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:32.460
Yeah, yeah.

269
00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:37.500
And so he was incredibly attractive, again, in his 40s.

270
00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:39.119
He's 73 or something here.

271
00:18:39.180 --> 00:18:41.700
This is his last Star Trek 2.

272
00:18:41.880 --> 00:18:43.980
Um, and he's been Kang.

273
00:18:44.039 --> 00:18:45.720
He is dead at this point, isn't he, Kang?

274
00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:46.920
in Deep Sea.

275
00:18:46.980 --> 00:18:48.480
Yeah, yeah, he died in blood oath.

276
00:18:48.539 --> 00:18:51.960
Yeah, so there's 2 episodes with him in it.

277
00:18:52.140 --> 00:19:00.539
Oh, so this, he's a day of the dove in, he's finished off, both Michael and Sarah and Major L. Barrett.

278
00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:00.900
Yeah.

279
00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:03.420
They thought, this is as bad as this is going to get.

280
00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:05.099
I'm not going to get a worse episode than this.

281
00:19:05.160 --> 00:19:06.299
I'm not doing any more.

282
00:19:07.019 --> 00:19:12.119
Oh, I hate these these alien civilisations with bizarre rules.

283
00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:22.019
Please don't tell me there is there is a race on the earth where men bring up the boys and ladies bring up the girls.

284
00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:24.720
No, but I mean, that's not super dumb.

285
00:19:24.779 --> 00:19:25.740
Like, I think that's okay.

286
00:19:25.799 --> 00:19:39.059
I think the the most delightfully hilarious thing about the civilisation is where you have to stand up as the bridegroom and explain why you want.

287
00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:39.960
Do you know what I mean?

288
00:19:40.019 --> 00:19:44.460
Like, it's a custom exactly designed to make that plot work.

289
00:19:44.579 --> 00:19:47.519
But it gives us quite a good scene, I think.

290
00:19:47.579 --> 00:19:51.660
Oh, it's a great scene because you've got all the crews standing around baffled.

291
00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:59.940
This is the 1st I've heard that Odo's getting married and then he does his 1st declaration and we'll get there, but he just sort of goes, Oh, marry me, Luaxana.

292
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:02.940
Like it just hasn't, there's no effort in it whatsoever.

293
00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:07.019
I love how she calls him a dear sweet man.

294
00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:09.660
It's kind of funny, isn't it?

295
00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:10.920
Because he's pushing her away.

296
00:20:10.980 --> 00:20:17.339
And I think that we read that as him not wanting to get into a sitcom plot with her.

297
00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:18.119
Yeah.

298
00:20:18.180 --> 00:20:19.440
Every time I see you.

299
00:20:19.500 --> 00:20:21.359
I end up in one of these...

300
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:22.980
Some ludicrous shit complot happens.

301
00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:32.220
But then I like the idea that the reason he's doing, he's pushing her away is because he's in love with her and it's kind of painful to not acknowledge that.

302
00:20:32.279 --> 00:20:43.140
The scenes that I figured that would be painful to watch again, because I remember them from before, are the ones where he lets her into his quarters and loves her being there.

303
00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:44.940
And I really love those scenes this time.

304
00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:46.680
They were really good, weren't they?

305
00:20:46.740 --> 00:20:51.480
That game I was telling you about where he shapes you into something and she's got to try and find him.

306
00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:53.579
I mean, that's what we play, right?

307
00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:56.039
He's Meg Foster.

308
00:20:56.099 --> 00:20:59.880
And look, like she barely opens her mouth.

309
00:20:59.940 --> 00:21:07.319
She's so, I mean, the high forehead is all a little bit unfortunate because she's a Star Trek alien or whatever, but it's also stately.

310
00:21:07.380 --> 00:21:10.440
Like she's really kind of glamorous.

311
00:21:10.500 --> 00:21:13.140
But look, she's like the voice.

312
00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:15.960
She overcomes the makeup, doesn't she?

313
00:21:16.019 --> 00:21:19.559
The trouble with the makeup as well is, and then now to give him these massive wigs.

314
00:21:19.619 --> 00:21:22.019
Yeah, you know, it's a compensate.

315
00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:25.440
But her deportment, how she carries herself.

316
00:21:25.500 --> 00:21:27.359
The smile.

317
00:21:27.420 --> 00:21:29.460
But look, she barely opens her mouth.

318
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:32.099
There's something, something there.

319
00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:48.539
And like we get a bit of acknowledgement from the set that they're, you know, that he might be, because he's 17, you know, he's tall and and stuff and handsome, he's a young man, but he hasn't had sex at this point, has he?

320
00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:49.019
No.

321
00:21:49.079 --> 00:22:13.319
Uh, he's had girlfriends, but no, he's a girlfriend's male, maybe, but, but, but she's a much older woman, like she's 30 years older than him and she brings him into her sexy kind of, you know, uh, Sorry, I'm doing, I'm watching the depth perception in this scene here, because you can see the promenade behind and the extras going about their business.

322
00:22:13.380 --> 00:22:14.099
Yeah.

323
00:22:14.099 --> 00:22:17.519
And that alien that we saw at the beginning. was walked past 3 times already.

324
00:22:17.579 --> 00:22:19.140
He's just going back and forth.

325
00:22:19.799 --> 00:22:24.119
What I like about this is this is about the promenade.

326
00:22:24.180 --> 00:22:33.599
This is a conversation about what you were talking about because she's talking about the Cardassian architect who has this influence on Cardassian style.

327
00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:38.400
And that conversation, which sounds a little bit crap, is actually quite interesting.

328
00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:44.460
And it introduces the idea that she's going to kill that she kills the person she inspires.

329
00:22:44.579 --> 00:22:47.640
Yeah, because... get a point.

330
00:22:47.700 --> 00:22:49.140
Yeah, it's pretty good.

331
00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:59.279
I do like the idea, the idea that, you know, what's better to live a long, unfulfilled life or a short life where you make an impact on the universe.

332
00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:02.819
I think most of us would choose a shorter life, actually.

333
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:08.940
Well, but the funny thing is, of course, that it is like writing is pouring your heart and soul into something.

334
00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:09.900
Do you know what I mean?

335
00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:10.980
It's a very hard job.

336
00:23:11.099 --> 00:23:19.799
And you kind of think, yeah, like there are paramedics and coal miners and stuff and you can just fuck off, you know, like, you're writing this. why writing seems so heroic here.

337
00:23:19.859 --> 00:23:30.539
Um, I mean, you know, um, wondering what I know, I would, would say to you and me, Joe and Nathan, such insightful, critical analysis.

338
00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:36.480
Oh, dear.

339
00:23:36.539 --> 00:23:39.299
I mean, she couldn't possibly make our podcasting better, Nathan.

340
00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:39.900
She couldn't do it.

341
00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:42.420
No, no, no, wouldn't be possible.

342
00:23:44.519 --> 00:23:46.559
She has techniques.

343
00:23:46.619 --> 00:23:52.799
Like, there's also, I've watched a sort of mid-nineties telly lately, because I'm doing a abovey podcast as well.

344
00:23:52.859 --> 00:24:01.380
And there are some really awkward episodes where older characters are coming on to younger characters or supposedly younger characters.

345
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:03.900
I didn't get that sense at all here.

346
00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:08.400
I didn't get the sense that she was looking to have sex with him or anything like that, you know.

347
00:24:08.460 --> 00:24:11.220
She was just after his creative juices.

348
00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:13.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

349
00:24:13.140 --> 00:24:15.420
But it is kind of impossible to read.

350
00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:19.799
Like she's, you know, smelling his hair and stuff like that. you know what I mean?

351
00:24:19.859 --> 00:24:21.180
Like, it is really central.

352
00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:22.440
Did you find it icky?

353
00:24:22.500 --> 00:24:31.200
I didn't know, no, because I just thought she was sexy as hell and was kind of thinking, you know, and he was into it, like he didn't seem to be...

354
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:34.680
I do wonder how this was played, though, you know, if it had been, I don't know.

355
00:24:34.740 --> 00:24:41.279
A 17 year old Naomi, Naomi Wildman and an older man stroking her hair, you know.

356
00:24:41.339 --> 00:24:41.940
Yeah.

357
00:24:41.940 --> 00:24:42.599
Yeah.

358
00:24:42.660 --> 00:24:44.819
This is a beautiful scene too.

359
00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:46.500
Okay, this is great.

360
00:24:47.220 --> 00:24:52.019
I know, but it's him as dad, and I just love seeing him as dad.

361
00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:56.160
Like, and there's a couple of scenes, but that makes him even hotter, Nathan, if I want it.

362
00:24:56.220 --> 00:24:57.779
Oh, I agree.

363
00:24:57.839 --> 00:24:58.980
But they're beautiful.

364
00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:05.880
Like, it is that thing about how demonstrative they are and how physically, do you know what I mean?

365
00:25:05.940 --> 00:25:07.440
How physically demonstrative they are.

366
00:25:07.500 --> 00:25:08.400
He kisses him.

367
00:25:08.460 --> 00:25:18.000
He demands a hug before he leaves, you know, like it's just, look, something very right with the relationships on this show, didn't he?

368
00:25:18.059 --> 00:25:20.880
He just claps him on the cheeks and leaves.

369
00:25:20.940 --> 00:25:23.819
It's beautiful Oh, I don't think they've seen lands.

370
00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:26.579
So everyone's sitting around depressed.

371
00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:27.660
Really?

372
00:25:27.660 --> 00:25:29.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

373
00:25:29.579 --> 00:25:30.180
Yeah.

374
00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:31.440
Just nice too.

375
00:25:31.799 --> 00:25:34.079
They're ridiculous frocks.

376
00:25:34.140 --> 00:25:35.279
Yeah, that's right.

377
00:25:35.339 --> 00:25:39.420
They're ridiculous mediaeval princess frogs. and they're so miserable.

378
00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:42.180
Camelots.

379
00:25:42.180 --> 00:25:43.920
Love betrayed.

380
00:25:44.339 --> 00:26:01.799
I don't think this is well directed either because there's a thing here where Michael should deliver the line as if Worf genuinely believes that Odo is asking him to go for a walk, but he doesn't, and that would have been so much funnier.

381
00:26:01.859 --> 00:26:03.900
Like if he went, yeah, yeah, I'll go for a walk.

382
00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:06.240
It's like, no, it's acting like Sana.

383
00:26:06.299 --> 00:26:08.099
Like that would have been funnier.

384
00:26:08.220 --> 00:26:17.160
And I think the final line is on the nose where it's just a sort of sign going, I'm so depressed and it's kind of like, yeah, yeah, we've been watching this scene.

385
00:26:17.220 --> 00:26:20.640
I know Courtney's a line because he's on a contract or obligation.

386
00:26:20.700 --> 00:26:23.579
So we have the scene which establishes this.

387
00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:25.980
Then we have the bit that explains it.

388
00:26:25.980 --> 00:26:29.519
And then it's so fucking 90s trek, isn't it?

389
00:26:29.579 --> 00:26:30.599
Just trust us to get it.

390
00:26:30.660 --> 00:26:31.380
We get it.

391
00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:35.460
That was our big complaint about last week, wasn't it?

392
00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:41.339
It's just like everything was like telegraphed to us as if we hadn't ever seen TV before.

393
00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:45.960
And here in a way, I'm objecting to the fact that things aren't very clearly telegraphed.

394
00:26:46.019 --> 00:26:51.059
You know, we can't tell really what the B plot is happening and you have to reconstruct it.

395
00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:52.920
You said last week about the last lot.

396
00:26:52.980 --> 00:26:56.460
I can't remember what the last line Neelix had during that terrible scene where he dragged the scene.

397
00:26:56.519 --> 00:26:57.359
Oh, yeah, the non-joke.

398
00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:01.680
The same thing happened just there where that goes, oh, I'm so depressed.

399
00:27:01.740 --> 00:27:05.759
And it's just not funny and we knew that, you know, like, what's that?

400
00:27:06.299 --> 00:27:09.119
Like, they, it's a non-joke.

401
00:27:09.180 --> 00:27:12.359
That's a placeholder where a joke should go, but no.

402
00:27:12.359 --> 00:27:13.440
Somebody should do a book.

403
00:27:13.500 --> 00:27:15.900
The non-jokes of 90 Star Trek.

404
00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:16.619
Yeah.

405
00:27:16.619 --> 00:27:18.180
Volumes one to 10.

406
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:25.680
Speaking of writing, though, this is the only time that Majo Barrett gets a story credit on Star Trek.

407
00:27:25.740 --> 00:27:29.640
Yeah, I think she wanted to do the pregnancy storyline.

408
00:27:29.700 --> 00:27:30.480
Yeah.

409
00:27:30.539 --> 00:27:40.799
So it's her and Renee at Chavario, who get the, who get story and Renee gets some, um, uh, tailor play credit.

410
00:27:40.859 --> 00:27:46.440
They play along with this for a bit, that her replicator's broken and she wants some tea because she's a bit angry.

411
00:27:46.500 --> 00:27:48.839
You know it because we've seen TV TV before?

412
00:27:48.900 --> 00:27:50.759
Well, we've seen her do this before.

413
00:27:50.819 --> 00:27:51.720
Yes, of course.

414
00:27:51.779 --> 00:27:52.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

415
00:27:52.619 --> 00:27:54.660
But, like, it's so obvious.

416
00:27:54.660 --> 00:28:07.799
And he knows all, you know, and in a way that your applicator isn't really broken is almost unnecessary, but I like how old she is, though.

417
00:28:07.859 --> 00:28:08.279
I like this.

418
00:28:08.519 --> 00:28:09.000
She says, yeah.

419
00:28:09.059 --> 00:28:10.500
Yeah, that's all right.

420
00:28:10.500 --> 00:28:12.660
But I'm comfortable now, so I won't go.

421
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:19.799
But but also, it's that thing where she immediately understands what it's for.

422
00:28:20.039 --> 00:28:21.900
Do you know what I mean?

423
00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:23.640
Most people think it's a sculptor.

424
00:28:23.700 --> 00:28:25.920
She says, oh, it's viewed of shapeshift on, right?

425
00:28:25.980 --> 00:28:26.759
Isn't it?

426
00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:28.019
And he goes, well, yes.

427
00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:31.259
And of course she understands him and that's the point.

428
00:28:31.319 --> 00:28:36.839
I love this as well because she learned in the last episode about Odo having feelings for Kira.

429
00:28:36.900 --> 00:28:40.740
And she goes, you know, how is that all going?

430
00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:42.720
And she goes, I'm really, really sorry.

431
00:28:42.779 --> 00:28:45.180
And he goes, no, I'm really, I'm happy she's happy.

432
00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:46.980
There's just a maturity to this.

433
00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:48.119
Yeah, yeah.

434
00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:48.720
But I like.

435
00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:52.500
Yeah I agree.

436
00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:58.559
I suppose, you know, he ended up in her lap in one story, so she had to end up in his lap in another.

437
00:28:58.680 --> 00:28:58.920
Exactly.

438
00:28:58.980 --> 00:29:00.180
I do.

439
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:10.500
I loved his little line where he doesn't think there's much chance he'll end up pregnant and on the run. his body language when he touches her stomach and feels the baby kicking.

440
00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:12.599
It's like that...

441
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:13.799
He's never done that before.

442
00:29:13.859 --> 00:29:24.299
It's never occurred to him that that's a thing that happens with pregnant solids, and he's never touched a pregnant person's stomach before, and he's absolutely delighted by it.

443
00:29:24.420 --> 00:29:25.140
It's wonderful.

444
00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:33.539
It's the same childlike glee as when he has that bowl of glute given to him in series 5 that turns to be a change.

445
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:38.400
And every time he experiences something new with it, he does this, his face just lights up.

446
00:29:38.460 --> 00:29:40.079
It was wonderful, wasn't it?

447
00:29:40.140 --> 00:29:40.859
It's really good.

448
00:29:41.220 --> 00:29:43.859
Oh, yeah, look at this.

449
00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:44.279
Look at it.

450
00:29:44.339 --> 00:29:44.700
Look at it.

451
00:29:44.759 --> 00:29:46.799
She doesn't even give him a choice.

452
00:29:46.859 --> 00:29:47.400
Do you want to feel?

453
00:29:47.819 --> 00:29:49.200
Yes, he just does this.

454
00:29:49.259 --> 00:29:51.539
He just, he's so shocked.

455
00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:52.799
It's wonderful.

456
00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:55.140
Such a great choice.

457
00:29:55.319 --> 00:30:03.119
It's sort of doing the learning about humanity thing that they do with data, but because he's allowed to express emotions.

458
00:30:03.180 --> 00:30:05.160
Yeah, more involving.

459
00:30:05.579 --> 00:30:10.019
Oh, what she says, sometimes you can hear the thoughts of betasoid babies.

460
00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:11.039
That's a great line as well.

461
00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:14.400
Because babies are content.

462
00:30:14.460 --> 00:30:16.259
Like she has that quote.

463
00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:17.640
Who is it she's quoting?

464
00:30:17.700 --> 00:30:24.839
She says, like, we all spend all our lives lives longing for the contentment that we experienced in utero, you know?

465
00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:27.779
Like, yeah, here.

466
00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:29.220
Some of these money once said.

467
00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:31.740
It could be just terrible.

468
00:30:31.980 --> 00:30:33.960
There's a relax.

469
00:30:34.019 --> 00:30:35.579
I don't know, something about this works.

470
00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:37.140
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

471
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:38.880
Well I think this is so nice.

472
00:30:38.940 --> 00:30:40.680
I didn't have a mother.

473
00:30:40.740 --> 00:30:41.339
Yeah.

474
00:30:41.579 --> 00:30:43.740
Don't worry, it's all right.

475
00:30:43.799 --> 00:30:44.940
She goes, you'll find your peace.

476
00:30:46.980 --> 00:30:51.180
But, like, how is he feeling now?

477
00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:53.279
Like, is this him?

478
00:30:53.400 --> 00:30:57.059
Like, is he being drawn into the sitcom plot that he feared?

479
00:30:57.119 --> 00:30:58.440
He isn't really, is he?

480
00:30:58.500 --> 00:31:02.819
As usual, she's got more depth than he suspected.

481
00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:04.680
I do love it as well.

482
00:31:04.740 --> 00:31:08.160
I know you don't like the effect, but I like it when he turns into the blanket.

483
00:31:08.220 --> 00:31:10.559
Oh, I like a blanket over her.

484
00:31:10.619 --> 00:31:13.380
Yeah, he's got...

485
00:31:13.380 --> 00:31:14.519
It's typical DS9.

486
00:31:14.700 --> 00:31:16.079
It's about the people, isn't it?

487
00:31:16.140 --> 00:31:21.240
There's a ridiculous plot going on, but it's about the people and it's those moments that you take from this.

488
00:31:21.299 --> 00:31:25.619
Well, even the fact, right, that his room has no furniture.

489
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:31.680
Like his quarters make no accommodation for any people who might enter his life.

490
00:31:31.740 --> 00:31:32.640
Yeah.

491
00:31:32.700 --> 00:31:34.200
And so that's what he does.

492
00:31:34.259 --> 00:31:37.920
He puts the blanket over her doing his stupid gloopy effect.

493
00:31:37.980 --> 00:31:40.500
But that isn't going to stop her though, is it?

494
00:31:40.559 --> 00:31:42.000
She's still got to stay there regardless.

495
00:31:42.059 --> 00:31:43.980
But that's the point, isn't it?

496
00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:53.160
She barges her way into his perfectly ordered life that excludes everyone and just making his quarters demonstrate that, all right, now in these quarters.

497
00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:56.940
So how did he know where she was staying?

498
00:31:57.000 --> 00:32:00.539
That was the thing that irritated me at the end of the conversation.

499
00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:01.619
Come and see me in my quarters.

500
00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:02.940
And he goes, oh yeah, all right.

501
00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:04.259
And then she goes.

502
00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:08.339
Why don't you just say computer, where is Anaya staying on the station?

503
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:10.859
Well, do you think that's a thing, though?

504
00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:12.960
That doesn't happen in hotels.

505
00:32:13.019 --> 00:32:21.660
Now, look, we've got we've got candles in the set again, and every time they do this, I always think it's better lighting than the actual normal lighting that we get in us there.

506
00:32:21.720 --> 00:32:22.559
Yeah.

507
00:32:22.619 --> 00:32:25.380
But he's nervous. you know what I mean?

508
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:28.079
Because he thinks that sex is going to happen, perhaps.

509
00:32:28.140 --> 00:32:29.640
Do you know what I mean?

510
00:32:29.700 --> 00:32:38.759
Like, because she's older and she's pulling him into her sexy quarters, which are all blankets and There's a lot of drapes there, given how many naked flames were about.

511
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:40.980
That's it.

512
00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:42.420
Are they nylon?

513
00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:42.839
I hope not.

514
00:32:42.900 --> 00:32:44.339
That sounds potentially terrible.

515
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:48.240
It's not the only thing that's got to be on fire in this room, are there?

516
00:32:48.299 --> 00:32:52.440
I do like the fact that the book that he writes, it's Anselm, isn't it?

517
00:32:52.500 --> 00:32:56.039
And that's the book that he writes in Visitor.

518
00:32:56.099 --> 00:32:59.279
Yeah, that she says is one of her favourite books. yeah.

519
00:32:59.339 --> 00:33:00.000
Yeah.

520
00:33:00.059 --> 00:33:02.880
And it's a great book, like we already know, it's a great book.

521
00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:08.039
And so that's brilliant because we don't get the name of the book until the last shot.

522
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:11.160
The last shot is the cover page, isn't it?

523
00:33:11.160 --> 00:33:13.980
Of the thing where we see that the book was Anselm.

524
00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:18.119
And so we see that she did inspire him to create something that we know is great.

525
00:33:18.180 --> 00:33:21.539
And I know it's all a, you know, timeline or whatever.

526
00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:23.279
But we saw it on TV.

527
00:33:23.339 --> 00:33:26.039
So it like it matters, I think. and that's what it means.

528
00:33:26.099 --> 00:33:36.420
All of that stuff about, you know, you, you don't know how to start a book because you don't know, you know, how to bring it to life, but I bet you know what the 1st line is and all the life.

529
00:33:36.420 --> 00:33:40.380
Like, Renee Shapara is writing this and it obviously is experienced all this stuff.

530
00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:41.819
So it's it feels believable.

531
00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:43.200
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

532
00:33:43.259 --> 00:33:44.940
I've certainly, do you know what I mean?

533
00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:53.519
Even horrible J.K. Rowling said that she knew that like the last chapter of the Harry Potter series, ages before, you know, she finished it.

534
00:33:53.579 --> 00:33:57.660
So this, there's something so sensual about that pile of paper.

535
00:33:57.720 --> 00:34:08.280
And for someone who's never worked on paper before, he has the most beautiful handwriting and like a painter. brushed canvas, right?

536
00:34:08.340 --> 00:34:09.840
It's beautiful, isn't it?

537
00:34:09.900 --> 00:34:13.019
It's called Vistoral, right?

538
00:34:13.019 --> 00:34:13.500
Right.

539
00:34:13.559 --> 00:34:17.280
Yeah, yeah, but it's visceral writing because the paper is sexy.

540
00:34:17.340 --> 00:34:18.539
The pan is sexy.

541
00:34:18.599 --> 00:34:23.400
You know, he's on that stupid, horrible pad trying to write anything.

542
00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:24.900
Do you know what I mean?

543
00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:26.460
It's much worse than an iPad.

544
00:34:26.519 --> 00:34:27.420
It's super gross.

545
00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:30.840
But um, and now he gets to write on paper.

546
00:34:30.900 --> 00:34:34.739
And I actually thought, you know, often it's someone who prepares the prop.

547
00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:35.940
Like you look at that shot, right?

548
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:42.239
And you sort of think, look at that beautiful handwriting, and I'm not sure that's a syrup loft.

549
00:34:42.300 --> 00:34:43.440
Is, is it?

550
00:34:43.559 --> 00:34:52.860
is because the camera moves from his hands up his arm twice in the episode and we see that he's the one actually doing that riding.

551
00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:56.280
And he's 17. what year is this?

552
00:34:56.340 --> 00:34:59.460
Like, and he has that stunning handwriting.

553
00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:00.840
7, 97?

554
00:35:00.900 --> 00:35:02.400
Yeah, that sounds right.

555
00:35:02.519 --> 00:35:05.639
He's 10 years younger than me A bit more than that.

556
00:35:05.699 --> 00:35:07.139
A bit less than that.

557
00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:16.440
I've got to say props to the to the foley artist as well because this is going to sound crazy, but they're actually the scratching of the end on the paper.

558
00:35:16.500 --> 00:35:18.420
It's really accentuated here as well.

559
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:20.880
Yeah, and it's real, isn't it?

560
00:35:20.940 --> 00:35:23.760
But this, this is so sexy.

561
00:35:23.820 --> 00:35:27.539
What's going on about the Frost?

562
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:28.320
Yeah, all of that.

563
00:35:28.380 --> 00:35:31.380
But except, except, I don't know.

564
00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:37.079
Like, I actually found all of that, because then she talks about chakras and stuff like that.

565
00:35:37.139 --> 00:35:40.139
So she talks about the temples and she talks.

566
00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:41.699
Yeah, she talks about your shop.

567
00:35:41.699 --> 00:35:43.800
Oh, Nathan, I fucking love a head massage.

568
00:35:43.860 --> 00:35:44.940
Oh, yeah.

569
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:45.539
Well, that's it.

570
00:35:45.659 --> 00:35:48.239
She can creep him up bedroom any day.

571
00:35:48.300 --> 00:35:54.300
Yeah, to stimulate them and they can make you feel restful or energise.

572
00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:55.860
Like, and all of this stuff.

573
00:35:55.860 --> 00:35:58.739
And what he's writing to is about that experience.

574
00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:01.079
So comforting he could have succumbed.

575
00:36:01.139 --> 00:36:01.980
Do you know what I mean?

576
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:03.659
I felt it...

577
00:36:03.719 --> 00:36:06.599
Do you know, it's the pace of his writing is improved.

578
00:36:06.659 --> 00:36:08.699
It feels like it's flowing out of him.

579
00:36:09.659 --> 00:36:10.860
Look at that shot.

580
00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:13.139
It's like if she's about to lick his ear.

581
00:36:13.380 --> 00:36:15.059
Flow.

582
00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:16.440
Oh my god.

583
00:36:16.500 --> 00:36:17.639
It's so sexy.

584
00:36:17.699 --> 00:36:20.760
Is she the best space vampire that we've had then?

585
00:36:20.820 --> 00:36:24.659
Oh, she's, yeah, so I think, are we going to see that?

586
00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:33.420
Look, they're his riding and there we move up his arm and it's definitely him riding beautifully for someone who has never used paper before.

587
00:36:35.579 --> 00:36:40.739
It does feel like genuinely quite essential as well, doesn't it?

588
00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:41.280
Yeah, isn't it?

589
00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:45.780
But remember, you know, how many times we watched 90s trek episodes and we've gone, ugh, you know.

590
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:47.159
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

591
00:36:47.219 --> 00:36:50.760
So when, so she's like sniffing his hair.

592
00:36:50.820 --> 00:36:51.659
Do you know what I mean?

593
00:36:51.719 --> 00:36:58.860
Like, it's like she's, she's not sort of holding her hands over his head and, you know, putting beams into his hair or whatever.

594
00:36:58.860 --> 00:37:04.199
Like, it's, it's, um, she's wafting his scent into her nostrils.

595
00:37:04.260 --> 00:37:08.400
This is exactly the game I would play if I had a changelim, mate.

596
00:37:08.460 --> 00:37:10.920
Go on, turn into something and I'll try and find you.

597
00:37:11.039 --> 00:37:13.260
The change is an equivalent of hide and seek, you know?

598
00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:24.840
But I love where she goes over and says, because that is a thing with a really interesting texture that would be really challenging to replicate, and she thought it was him.

599
00:37:24.900 --> 00:37:26.519
And I thought it was him too.

600
00:37:26.579 --> 00:37:29.400
And then she goes, oh my god, you can do surfaces.

601
00:37:29.460 --> 00:37:30.360
I didn't know that.

602
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:38.039
And there's that level of interest in a knowledge about his shape shifting that we don't get from anyone else.

603
00:37:38.099 --> 00:37:39.719
I didn't know you wanted to.

604
00:37:39.780 --> 00:37:40.380
You do the surfaces?

605
00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:42.719
Well, now you do. really good, isn't it?

606
00:37:43.559 --> 00:37:45.780
It's really annoying.

607
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:46.920
Yeah.

608
00:37:46.980 --> 00:37:50.280
I can't imagine why I found these scenes so bad before.

609
00:37:50.340 --> 00:37:51.960
No, they're charming.

610
00:37:52.019 --> 00:37:52.440
Are they?

611
00:37:52.500 --> 00:37:53.159
Look how exciting.

612
00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:57.659
You saw a toxic uniform in a very playful way, hasn't it?

613
00:37:57.719 --> 00:37:59.159
He's having a great time.

614
00:37:59.219 --> 00:38:01.199
Yeah, and there we go.

615
00:38:01.260 --> 00:38:04.440
The husband, the horrible husband has arrived and it's Michael and Sam.

616
00:38:04.500 --> 00:38:06.780
And watch how he goes straight to business.

617
00:38:06.840 --> 00:38:07.739
He straightens up.

618
00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:08.760
Yeah, yeah.

619
00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:13.679
The more I watch, Renee, I can never say his surname.

620
00:38:13.739 --> 00:38:15.539
Oh, yeah.

621
00:38:15.599 --> 00:38:22.260
The more impressed I am with how how much work he does when he can't actually, you can't see his face.

622
00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:25.139
He just uses his body in such an expressive way.

623
00:38:25.260 --> 00:38:28.920
Yeah, I didn't make the link between this fellow and Kang, you know.

624
00:38:28.980 --> 00:38:29.579
Kang.

625
00:38:29.639 --> 00:38:45.840
I think that in Day of the Dove, he's really attractive, like he's, you know, he's in his 40s, but he's a really attractive man and, you know, here he's 73 or something like he's sort of reasonably old and he's very good.

626
00:38:45.900 --> 00:38:47.099
He's got a lovely voice.

627
00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:50.280
It does, but it's a very whole false character, isn't it?

628
00:38:50.340 --> 00:38:56.099
He's here to just do one function and that's just to drag her away and then be convinced.

629
00:38:56.820 --> 00:39:02.460
All that sort of nuance we've talked about between Odo and Luxana, none of that's here with this character.

630
00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:03.300
No, no, no.

631
00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:07.440
But I do like that he gets to, like, he believes it.

632
00:39:07.500 --> 00:39:10.500
Like, he's the one who believes it and then leaves.

633
00:39:10.500 --> 00:39:12.539
And he doesn't like anything, does it?

634
00:39:12.599 --> 00:39:13.980
He just, he just goes.

635
00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:29.460
No, but there's a beautiful scene with him and Luxana later where, you know, there's not nothing to their relationship and he says, you know, bring my son up, but speak well of me to him and she nods and says, yes, of course I will.

636
00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:34.559
You know, like I just thought that was, again, just a sort of level of grown-upness to the whole thing.

637
00:39:34.619 --> 00:39:38.099
But this is a sort of shitty law that you have to create.

638
00:39:38.159 --> 00:39:43.739
It's the mother's husband that has the rights over the child rather than the child's father.

639
00:39:43.800 --> 00:39:46.139
That makes it no sense.

640
00:39:46.199 --> 00:39:46.800
No.

641
00:39:46.860 --> 00:39:50.159
But all of that is just all kind of weird bullshit, isn't it?

642
00:39:50.219 --> 00:39:53.340
Because it's amazing. into the wedding situation, isn't it?

643
00:39:53.400 --> 00:39:53.699
Yeah.

644
00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:56.880
But I mean, that's a thing that we've done before.

645
00:39:56.940 --> 00:40:01.199
But so we talked about cost of living, and of course, cost of living is resolved.

646
00:40:01.260 --> 00:40:17.519
We, um, we defeat the horrible husband to be in cost of living because, like, Sana turns up naked at her wedding, because it's a betazoid wedding and there was some throwaway line in series one about how betazoids are naked when they get married.

647
00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:22.619
Yeah, that's right.

648
00:40:23.099 --> 00:40:25.619
And does she say to Picard?

649
00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:28.380
Oh, by the way, the person who gives me away has to be naked as well.

650
00:40:28.440 --> 00:40:29.519
He's like what?

651
00:40:30.179 --> 00:40:35.099
What I loved about this scene as well is in so many of these Loaxana Troy episodes.

652
00:40:35.159 --> 00:40:36.840
She's the one driving everything.

653
00:40:36.900 --> 00:40:39.599
She's the one saying, oh, you've got to do this ridiculous thing.

654
00:40:39.659 --> 00:40:41.460
And what was really nice was here.

655
00:40:41.519 --> 00:40:43.739
It's Odo saying, look, I'll come up with this insane plan.

656
00:40:43.800 --> 00:40:46.019
She's going...

657
00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:47.639
Are we really gonna try and do this?

658
00:40:47.699 --> 00:40:51.960
And she's so much more likeable when she's not the one that's pushing everything.

659
00:40:52.679 --> 00:41:04.079
But the thing is that she doesn't know that he loves her and he knows that he does and so he knows he can pull it off. don't you think?

660
00:41:04.139 --> 00:41:07.079
I don't think he knows until that wedding scene.

661
00:41:07.139 --> 00:41:09.300
I think he realises that he's saying it.

662
00:41:09.360 --> 00:41:12.000
Maybe, yeah, yeah, maybe, maybe.

663
00:41:12.059 --> 00:41:14.099
I think that's how he plays it.

664
00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:17.820
It's like he sort of pauses and then delivers that amazing...

665
00:41:17.820 --> 00:41:19.380
And then start saying this thing.

666
00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:29.280
But I think I think that we've seen in their inter- Yeah, so maybe he's realising partly from the way they're interacting in the way that she's talking about his shapeshifting in this episode.

667
00:41:29.340 --> 00:41:36.840
Now, can I ask Nathan what your standard Star Trek fan, you know, expecting space anomalies and problems is going to think of all this?

668
00:41:36.900 --> 00:41:39.360
Well, I think that that's why it's hated.

669
00:41:39.420 --> 00:41:43.019
And in fact, there is a bit of, you know, Star Trek shit.

670
00:41:43.079 --> 00:41:47.820
You know, in the 3 quarter mark, which I...

671
00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:49.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

672
00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:54.179
Some weird blob goes flying into space, just to keep them happy.

673
00:41:54.239 --> 00:41:55.800
That's exactly right.

674
00:41:55.860 --> 00:41:56.820
It's not very successful.

675
00:41:57.000 --> 00:41:59.340
I love that too.

676
00:41:59.400 --> 00:42:09.300
I love that she's concerned about the nosebleed and he's brushing it off because he wants to get back to riding and having his hair stroked by sexy Meg Foster.

677
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:11.039
Look at that smile.

678
00:42:11.159 --> 00:42:12.119
Holy crap.

679
00:42:12.179 --> 00:42:14.880
This is the 2nd episode of G Space 9.

680
00:42:14.940 --> 00:42:17.519
We've watched, you know, where we've seen blood spilt on a page.

681
00:42:18.119 --> 00:42:20.760
Oh, do you remember the 1st one?

682
00:42:20.820 --> 00:42:21.659
monster Ojin.

683
00:42:25.079 --> 00:42:26.460
Right.

684
00:42:26.460 --> 00:42:30.239
Now here everyone's been roped into this stupid sitcom scene.

685
00:42:30.300 --> 00:42:31.440
I can't believe it.

686
00:42:31.500 --> 00:42:37.260
Poor old Mike Lansara has typically pronouncing Luxana and actually gets it wrong when he says it.

687
00:42:37.260 --> 00:42:38.579
Oh, don't wear it, though, Nathan.

688
00:42:38.699 --> 00:42:39.300
Yes.

689
00:42:39.300 --> 00:42:40.739
So this is like...

690
00:42:40.739 --> 00:42:42.420
He's had a costumes that won the awards.

691
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:43.440
Yeah, yeah.

692
00:42:43.500 --> 00:42:46.860
It's seersucker or fucking corduroy or something?

693
00:42:46.920 --> 00:42:47.760
What's going on?

694
00:42:47.820 --> 00:42:49.559
Like, what's the next?

695
00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:51.840
That is blue corduroy, yes.

696
00:42:51.900 --> 00:42:56.460
Yeah, and then and then she's wearing the same thing as if it's like leisure wear.

697
00:42:56.519 --> 00:42:57.599
Like, it looks so bad.

698
00:42:57.719 --> 00:43:00.719
And it's really restricted around the neck.

699
00:43:00.780 --> 00:43:01.980
I mean, who would want to wear that?

700
00:43:02.039 --> 00:43:03.119
Yeah, dreadful.

701
00:43:03.179 --> 00:43:07.559
And then she's wearing that sort of stupid veil that goes halfway up her face in the wrong way.

702
00:43:07.619 --> 00:43:09.179
Like it's really bad.

703
00:43:09.239 --> 00:43:11.219
I do like the light, though.

704
00:43:11.460 --> 00:43:13.920
Yeah, the light is, the light is good.

705
00:43:13.980 --> 00:43:16.199
I'm not sure that falls under costuming, though.

706
00:43:16.260 --> 00:43:16.980
That's probably props.

707
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:18.059
No, that it's a prop.

708
00:43:18.119 --> 00:43:21.119
Yeah, like the veil is really terrible.

709
00:43:21.179 --> 00:43:25.380
I love this ceremony, though, where you elevate the woman and then say fabulous things about her.

710
00:43:25.440 --> 00:43:33.059
But remember, it's a really patriarchal society and he actually does say, you know, you are my most important possession or something like that.

711
00:43:33.119 --> 00:43:35.039
Like it is that.

712
00:43:35.159 --> 00:43:36.659
Like, the Tavnians.

713
00:43:36.780 --> 00:43:41.639
The problem with the Tavians is they're super sexist and restrictive. my worldly possessions.

714
00:43:41.699 --> 00:43:45.300
His delivery though here where he's just so off the cuff.

715
00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:46.980
Oh, marry me.

716
00:43:47.039 --> 00:43:48.000
Yeah, yeah.

717
00:43:48.059 --> 00:43:51.360
Am I the only one who's less convinced about this ceremony?

718
00:43:51.420 --> 00:43:52.500
He goes, Michael.

719
00:43:52.559 --> 00:43:53.280
Yeah, yeah, you're right.

720
00:43:53.340 --> 00:43:53.760
You're right.

721
00:43:53.820 --> 00:43:57.659
Because of course, he can't be thinking I can pull this off because he doesn't even attempt it, does he?

722
00:43:57.719 --> 00:44:01.739
He just says some dumb thing and it's only when my clansara says...

723
00:44:01.800 --> 00:44:02.760
Yeah, yeah.

724
00:44:02.820 --> 00:44:03.900
Yeah.

725
00:44:03.960 --> 00:44:06.059
Oh, that's, yeah, see, this is it.

726
00:44:06.179 --> 00:44:08.159
He goes, the Waxano is not just any woman.

727
00:44:08.219 --> 00:44:09.059
Not to me.

728
00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:12.000
Yeah, and then we get it.

729
00:44:12.059 --> 00:44:16.500
And what I love is how he says when she came into my life.

730
00:44:16.559 --> 00:44:24.719
I had no idea the impact she would have on me because for the 1st time ever somebody saw me for who I am and wasn't afraid.

731
00:44:24.719 --> 00:44:25.260
Yeah.

732
00:44:25.260 --> 00:44:26.280
Oh, that's lovely.

733
00:44:26.340 --> 00:44:28.619
It is really good, isn't it?

734
00:44:28.679 --> 00:44:30.179
And she is lovely.

735
00:44:30.239 --> 00:44:32.340
Like we've seen her on screen with him.

736
00:44:32.460 --> 00:44:34.920
She calls him my dear sweet man.

737
00:44:34.980 --> 00:44:42.059
She's really kind of physically affectionate without, you know, without being overbearing.

738
00:44:42.179 --> 00:44:44.219
This is a beautiful speech.

739
00:44:44.280 --> 00:44:50.340
It turns out, you know, she just had to come where all the other rejects of the galaxy are DS9 to thrive.

740
00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:52.139
Yeah, yeah.

741
00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:52.860
Yeah.

742
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:54.960
And look at her.

743
00:44:55.019 --> 00:44:56.820
Like, look at her reaction.

744
00:44:56.880 --> 00:45:00.059
Now she's just silently reacting in the background.

745
00:45:00.300 --> 00:45:04.019
Like, so I saw how different I was and she didn't recoil.

746
00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:05.280
She wanted to see more.

747
00:45:05.340 --> 00:45:09.179
And I don't think she realises any of that.

748
00:45:09.239 --> 00:45:10.019
Do you?

749
00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:12.659
Like, is she... like she's a shot as well.

750
00:45:12.719 --> 00:45:13.980
You're seeing her rap?

751
00:45:14.039 --> 00:45:14.519
Yeah, yeah.

752
00:45:14.579 --> 00:45:16.079
So we're seeing her reaction in the background.

753
00:45:16.679 --> 00:45:21.360
And even afterwards, she goes, I can't believe we got away with that.

754
00:45:21.420 --> 00:45:22.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

755
00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:25.320
I almost believed your speech myself.

756
00:45:25.380 --> 00:45:28.440
Yes, I know, I know.

757
00:45:28.500 --> 00:45:31.440
But do you think they don't, is it me?

758
00:45:31.500 --> 00:45:33.539
They don't properly land it, I think.

759
00:45:33.599 --> 00:45:35.159
No, yeah, there's...

760
00:45:35.159 --> 00:45:38.159
Well, the whole situation is absurd.

761
00:45:38.219 --> 00:45:38.699
Well.

762
00:45:38.760 --> 00:45:39.360
Well, that's okay.

763
00:45:39.420 --> 00:45:40.619
But do you know what I mean?

764
00:45:40.679 --> 00:45:43.500
The whole situation just exists so that we can have this speech.

765
00:45:43.559 --> 00:45:44.820
Yeah.

766
00:45:44.880 --> 00:45:48.239
But it does mean something and it is backed up by previous episodes.

767
00:45:48.300 --> 00:45:49.860
So I think it lands in that respect.

768
00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:55.380
It's just not as, it doesn't sort of touch you as much as it probably should.

769
00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:56.340
It doesn't break your heart.

770
00:45:56.400 --> 00:45:57.360
No.

771
00:45:57.360 --> 00:45:59.820
And it should break your heart when she leaves, shouldn't it?

772
00:45:59.880 --> 00:46:00.840
And it doesn't.

773
00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:01.800
Yeah, yeah.

774
00:46:01.860 --> 00:46:04.920
I did like the fact we cut to Kira.

775
00:46:04.980 --> 00:46:07.079
Everyone else is sort of looking on a Mara.

776
00:46:07.139 --> 00:46:10.019
Kira looks down at her feet to go.

777
00:46:10.139 --> 00:46:11.519
Not sure about this, you know.

778
00:46:12.239 --> 00:46:13.800
Yeah.

779
00:46:13.860 --> 00:46:15.300
And look.

780
00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:19.739
And that's Michael and Sarah realising that it's actually, yep, you won.

781
00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:21.000
It is true.

782
00:46:21.059 --> 00:46:24.360
Michael Ansara realising my Star Trek dream is over.

783
00:46:24.420 --> 00:46:25.679
Yeah, yeah.

784
00:46:26.280 --> 00:46:30.420
But as well, like David Livingston.

785
00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:35.820
David Livingston directed that astonishing Klingon wedding and you are cordially invited.

786
00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:39.719
And that shows you when he's invested, he can really deliver it.

787
00:46:39.780 --> 00:46:41.820
Whereas this just feels very point and shoot.

788
00:46:41.880 --> 00:46:44.159
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

789
00:46:44.219 --> 00:46:52.019
It's not landing, but I don't think he properly knows what's important or no one really is kind of trying to pull a story out of this script.

790
00:46:53.519 --> 00:46:59.280
I saw this is the end of this story now, whereas the other one's about halfway through, isn't it?

791
00:46:59.340 --> 00:47:04.260
We've still got the whole 5 minutes of, my God, there's an alien on the on the station.

792
00:47:04.320 --> 00:47:05.280
We need to find them.

793
00:47:05.340 --> 00:47:07.320
That's the boring bit.

794
00:47:07.380 --> 00:47:12.780
And so what they've done is they've beefed up the Muse plot because they think this one isn't working.

795
00:47:12.840 --> 00:47:18.300
Whereas I think this one could easily have worked and could easily have been the A plot. don't you think?

796
00:47:18.360 --> 00:47:20.340
Because it's about Odo getting his arm broken.

797
00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:21.780
I wishing this is the A-law.

798
00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:25.559
I feel like the Jake plot is just the...

799
00:47:25.679 --> 00:47:31.320
But it's the one that it's the one that they give the climax to, and it's the one that they give the title to.

800
00:47:31.380 --> 00:47:33.480
And that was their decision.

801
00:47:33.539 --> 00:47:39.059
This was going to be called one playing house and then it isn't called that.

802
00:47:39.119 --> 00:47:40.619
Oh, look.

803
00:47:40.739 --> 00:47:42.179
Yeah, see.

804
00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:43.500
Is there a double meaning?

805
00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:44.940
Is she Odo's Muse?

806
00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:47.460
No, I don't think that quite works.

807
00:47:47.519 --> 00:47:48.840
But yeah, yeah.

808
00:47:48.900 --> 00:47:50.760
That I really...

809
00:47:50.820 --> 00:47:53.579
If you wanted to marry me, we should tell them the truth.

810
00:47:54.300 --> 00:47:57.960
But the way she throws her arms around him, just so natural.

811
00:47:57.960 --> 00:48:00.900
But that should break his heart to hear that.

812
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:04.019
The camera needs to linger a bit, doesn't it?

813
00:48:04.079 --> 00:48:04.920
We need a reaction shot.

814
00:48:04.980 --> 00:48:08.099
That should break his heart, I think.

815
00:48:08.159 --> 00:48:11.400
She is really getting off on Jake's juices now.

816
00:48:11.460 --> 00:48:11.880
Look at that.

817
00:48:11.940 --> 00:48:13.260
Look, I know.

818
00:48:13.320 --> 00:48:15.960
But look, it's just like, look at that.

819
00:48:16.019 --> 00:48:17.519
It's like they're postcoital.

820
00:48:17.579 --> 00:48:21.119
Compared to, you know, Troy oiling that man's chest.

821
00:48:21.179 --> 00:48:23.519
This is positively coil, isn't it?

822
00:48:23.579 --> 00:48:25.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

823
00:48:25.260 --> 00:48:30.360
And so she doesn't like, he's really into it, isn't it?

824
00:48:30.420 --> 00:48:32.820
He wants her to go on and she's making him stop.

825
00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:43.079
Just like, even though we had the sort of evil leer before, you know, the end of the scene, where he's not worried about the nosebleed, but she is a bit.

826
00:48:43.139 --> 00:48:44.340
Yeah.

827
00:48:44.400 --> 00:48:50.219
I do think he's more interested in the, you know, the astonishing book that he's creating, though, than her.

828
00:48:50.280 --> 00:48:51.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

829
00:48:51.300 --> 00:48:51.960
No, no, absolutely.

830
00:48:52.019 --> 00:48:54.539
But, of course, it's all being done in this sort of sexy way.

831
00:48:54.900 --> 00:48:56.280
Yeah.

832
00:48:56.340 --> 00:48:59.699
By all accounts, she had a fabulous time doing the episode as well.

833
00:48:59.760 --> 00:49:00.780
She really enjoyed it.

834
00:49:00.900 --> 00:49:04.260
She says she loved meeting, even though she doesn't have a scene with her.

835
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:06.059
She loved meeting Major Barrett as well.

836
00:49:06.119 --> 00:49:07.199
Oh, okay, wow.

837
00:49:07.260 --> 00:49:10.920
Yeah, they could have been shooting in, you know, different months.

838
00:49:10.980 --> 00:49:14.760
I think, I think he does a great job too.

839
00:49:14.820 --> 00:49:18.599
He looks terrible when he goes into the reprimat.

840
00:49:18.659 --> 00:49:21.119
Look how tired he looks and it's not just makeup.

841
00:49:21.179 --> 00:49:28.800
He's just he's really selling it. saddest things about DS9 is in the last 2 series, they do forget Jake a bit.

842
00:49:28.860 --> 00:49:30.119
They give him a few bits to do.

843
00:49:30.179 --> 00:49:37.679
But in sort of three, four, five, They've really given him great episodes and some good acting chances.

844
00:49:37.739 --> 00:49:39.239
I don't think this is a great episode.

845
00:49:39.300 --> 00:49:41.760
Don't get me wrong, but look at this.

846
00:49:41.820 --> 00:49:42.780
I think he sells this.

847
00:49:42.840 --> 00:49:44.880
Like, I just felt really bad for him.

848
00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:47.699
So here we are.

849
00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:49.380
So this is where we normally start the episode.

850
00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:50.639
Well, Jake's been knocked out.

851
00:49:50.699 --> 00:49:52.380
Now it's just like terrible.

852
00:49:52.380 --> 00:49:53.219
She is investigating.

853
00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:54.539
That's right.

854
00:49:54.599 --> 00:49:59.159
There's some sort of subsonic particles that have been extracted.

855
00:49:59.159 --> 00:50:02.340
Eurotransmitter productions off the scale, blah, blah.

856
00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:05.400
This is where Star Trek fans all sit up and go, what, what?

857
00:50:05.460 --> 00:50:07.199
Star Trek thing suddenly happening.

858
00:50:07.260 --> 00:50:09.300
Thank God that sitcom's over.

859
00:50:09.360 --> 00:50:14.340
Just goes in the Jeffreys tube with his gun in a minute, you know, like it's all going on.

860
00:50:14.519 --> 00:50:20.400
At the moment, the moment where I really lost my shit with the episode was where Kira says, oh, we can't beam you out.

861
00:50:20.460 --> 00:50:24.360
There's too much radiation there and I just thought, oh, fuck, of course there is.

862
00:50:24.960 --> 00:50:37.920
No, the bit where I realised how lacklustre this all wars was when he goes, get away from it, my son, and she goes, oh, but I'm inspiring him, and he just sort of points and shoots the gun in the lamest way you've ever seen.

863
00:50:37.980 --> 00:50:38.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

864
00:50:38.639 --> 00:50:40.619
It's really no one's kind of giving a shit.

865
00:50:40.679 --> 00:50:44.039
Although Nurse what's her face is definitely...

866
00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:45.420
It looks amazing in that.

867
00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:46.019
Did you see?

868
00:50:46.079 --> 00:50:52.980
Yeah, I thought so, too. what this is with sexy women in this in this episode.

869
00:50:53.460 --> 00:50:56.039
DS9 is getting us on the turn.

870
00:50:56.219 --> 00:50:58.320
Oh, look at it now.

871
00:50:58.440 --> 00:51:03.599
Look, she appears in the sick bay. sort of, what is she, just sort of brush aside the morning?

872
00:51:03.659 --> 00:51:04.260
Yeah, yeah.

873
00:51:04.260 --> 00:51:06.840
Do you know, Nathan, I could be mad.

874
00:51:06.900 --> 00:51:11.159
I think that woman, that was Patricia Tallman, you know, who played a regular on Babylon 5.

875
00:51:11.400 --> 00:51:12.420
Oh no, it was.

876
00:51:12.539 --> 00:51:13.500
Oh, it was.

877
00:51:13.559 --> 00:51:14.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

878
00:51:14.760 --> 00:51:17.519
Well, she's slubbing it, but she's assistant in DS 9.

879
00:51:17.579 --> 00:51:20.639
So I think she does a couple of episodes only.

880
00:51:20.940 --> 00:51:25.679
I think Paramount paid better than...

881
00:51:26.880 --> 00:51:29.579
Oh, here's O'Brien saying now.

882
00:51:29.579 --> 00:51:30.719
Sion energy.

883
00:51:30.719 --> 00:51:34.860
Jesus Christ, we've got him waving a tricorder around.

884
00:51:34.920 --> 00:51:38.519
Like, this is like, this is the opposite of sexy, isn't it?

885
00:51:38.579 --> 00:51:42.900
Like, we've had all these sexy season now, it's stopped being sexy.

886
00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:47.280
I feel like I was a fucking voyager again. one of those scenes where I had last week, you know?

887
00:51:47.340 --> 00:51:48.780
That's right.

888
00:51:48.840 --> 00:51:54.719
And this is where this is where the actors are uncomfortable as well on this show because they're used to doing lots of character stuff.

889
00:51:54.780 --> 00:51:58.800
You suddenly start giving them shit tons of technababble and they all just sound...

890
00:51:58.860 --> 00:52:00.719
Like now we're in a fucking Jeffreys tube.

891
00:52:01.019 --> 00:52:03.000
Oh, here we go.

892
00:52:03.059 --> 00:52:04.679
Like she's smelling his hair.

893
00:52:04.739 --> 00:52:06.179
Oh, Jake.

894
00:52:06.239 --> 00:52:08.519
Give me your psionic energy.

895
00:52:08.760 --> 00:52:10.679
And I like it enough.

896
00:52:10.739 --> 00:52:13.920
She puts them into a, she puts the energy into her breast. doesn't she?

897
00:52:13.980 --> 00:52:15.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

898
00:52:19.019 --> 00:52:21.900
So, yeah, it is pretty amazing.

899
00:52:22.260 --> 00:52:25.019
We both went quiet then.

900
00:52:25.079 --> 00:52:27.960
There was literally nothing to say. leg, no.

901
00:52:28.260 --> 00:52:40.739
So, I can't remember whether we said this on the recording or before the recording, but this will do the Star Trek trick of mentioning 2 real people in a fake person.

902
00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:44.880
And so this is a little bit like the wolf in the fold.

903
00:52:44.940 --> 00:52:51.960
Remember the wolf in the fold that that sort of creature that was Jack the Ripper and various other murderers on earth?

904
00:52:52.019 --> 00:52:54.659
She was amused throughout Earth's history.

905
00:52:54.719 --> 00:53:06.900
And so we mentioned Catullus, who's a 1st century Roman poet, who died, we think, you know, the story goes that he died at about the age of 30. you read any?

906
00:53:06.960 --> 00:53:08.340
Oh yeah, it's great.

907
00:53:08.400 --> 00:53:09.960
We read it all the time at school.

908
00:53:10.019 --> 00:53:14.760
He's, you know, he's and he writes love poetry and really sexy. love poetry.

909
00:53:14.820 --> 00:53:26.940
And, um, Keats, who died of tuberculosis at the age of 25 and then we get um, Phineas Tarbold from the Canopius Planet.

910
00:53:29.039 --> 00:53:31.320
Prittius Tarbold.

911
00:53:31.380 --> 00:53:41.820
Yeah, who Gary Mitchell quotes 2 lines from a sonnet of his called the Nightingale Woman, and it was written in 1996.

912
00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:50.099
So he was from the distant future of 1996 on another planet, and he wrote a sonnet and she was inspiring him.

913
00:53:50.159 --> 00:53:52.619
I do know the fact that she gets away, though.

914
00:53:52.679 --> 00:53:54.059
You know, she sort of zaps off.

915
00:53:54.119 --> 00:53:55.139
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

916
00:53:55.139 --> 00:53:56.639
It would have been terrible to kill her.

917
00:53:56.760 --> 00:53:57.420
Yeah, yeah.

918
00:53:57.480 --> 00:53:59.340
I wonder where she's gone now, you know?

919
00:53:59.400 --> 00:54:02.219
Who is some architect or some artist.

920
00:54:02.280 --> 00:54:03.420
Look how beautiful she is.

921
00:54:03.480 --> 00:54:06.300
Yeah, it's not what I am that matters. what I do.

922
00:54:06.360 --> 00:54:09.599
And...

923
00:54:09.599 --> 00:54:11.280
I unlocked that potential.

924
00:54:12.840 --> 00:54:14.760
Oh, Avery.

925
00:54:14.820 --> 00:54:18.300
Avery just seems a bit lost in this scene though. what am I doing?

926
00:54:18.360 --> 00:54:20.579
How did my career come to this?

927
00:54:20.639 --> 00:54:27.420
Yeah, there's a sort of crapness to this, but her performance is so magnificent and what she's saying is pretty great.

928
00:54:27.539 --> 00:54:35.579
And what she does, you know, is a kind of terrible thing, but, you know, if it's true, we all benefit from the poetry of Keats and Catalus.

929
00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:37.920
It's the opposite of my usual...

930
00:54:37.920 --> 00:54:39.480
Phineas Tarbolt.

931
00:54:39.539 --> 00:54:45.780
My usual complaint is, you know, you have a great episode let down by dreadful murder she wrote extra in one of the main parts.

932
00:54:45.840 --> 00:54:50.219
This is a kind of substandard episode with a great guest character actor in it.

933
00:54:50.340 --> 00:54:54.239
Yeah, well, 2 great guest character actors, I think, as well.

934
00:54:54.300 --> 00:54:59.460
Even the special effect when he shoots so lacklustre, we just can't be bothered.

935
00:54:59.519 --> 00:55:00.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

936
00:55:00.539 --> 00:55:01.199
That's season one.

937
00:55:01.199 --> 00:55:04.679
Just a standard shot of something coming out of the station now.

938
00:55:04.739 --> 00:55:05.460
Yep.

939
00:55:05.519 --> 00:55:06.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

940
00:55:06.599 --> 00:55:07.199
Snapping off.

941
00:55:07.260 --> 00:55:09.539
And that's enough.

942
00:55:09.539 --> 00:55:10.440
Happiness costume.

943
00:55:10.500 --> 00:55:12.599
I'm starting to see where that Emmy came from, yeah.

944
00:55:12.659 --> 00:55:15.179
Yeah, yeah, I think it. yeah, yeah.

945
00:55:15.239 --> 00:55:17.460
I think it actually might be Majell's gone.

946
00:55:17.519 --> 00:55:19.079
Gels costumes.

947
00:55:19.739 --> 00:55:25.980
Like early, early Miguel in Star Trek, she wears very sort of sexy costumes.

948
00:55:25.980 --> 00:55:27.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

949
00:55:27.119 --> 00:55:29.880
A really accentuator figure and show off her breast.

950
00:55:29.940 --> 00:55:33.780
In this episode, it's all been really frumpy gown.

951
00:55:33.840 --> 00:55:34.559
Well, she's pregnant.

952
00:55:34.619 --> 00:55:35.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

953
00:55:35.880 --> 00:55:37.320
But we still have day collartage.

954
00:55:37.380 --> 00:55:38.940
We still get a bit of...

955
00:55:38.940 --> 00:55:39.480
It looks beautiful.

956
00:55:39.539 --> 00:55:40.199
Don't get me wrong.

957
00:55:40.260 --> 00:55:40.980
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

958
00:55:41.039 --> 00:55:41.639
She's fabulous.

959
00:55:41.699 --> 00:55:43.860
Oh, I love that.

960
00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:45.119
She cuts through the crap.

961
00:55:45.179 --> 00:55:49.559
He starts saying all these reasons as to why she should say and she goes, yeah, I'll miss you too, Odo.

962
00:55:50.219 --> 00:55:52.980
But it's not just that, is it?

963
00:55:53.039 --> 00:55:54.420
It's not just that.

964
00:55:54.480 --> 00:55:56.280
She's got it wrong.

965
00:55:58.079 --> 00:56:01.500
I don't think this lad's at all like that, though.

966
00:56:01.619 --> 00:56:06.719
What you want is company, someone to take care of, and it's like, no, that's not it.

967
00:56:06.840 --> 00:56:13.679
My reading of this was she actually can read him and she knows that he loves Kira and not her.

968
00:56:13.739 --> 00:56:18.900
Whereas you're saying your reading of this is he is in love with her and she's not getting it.

969
00:56:18.960 --> 00:56:21.659
Well, she doesn't, she can't read him, can she?

970
00:56:21.719 --> 00:56:23.579
We know that from previously.

971
00:56:23.639 --> 00:56:29.579
The fact that the 2 of us watch this same scene and how 2 completely different readings suggest that the director wasn't really clear.

972
00:56:29.639 --> 00:56:30.360
No one's worked it out.

973
00:56:30.420 --> 00:56:31.860
And I think it works well.

974
00:56:31.920 --> 00:56:34.199
Like as a dramatic episode.

975
00:56:34.260 --> 00:56:43.199
Maybe less so in the where we're going to take Odo kind of thing because we're obviously going to put Odo and Kira together.

976
00:56:43.260 --> 00:56:49.980
But having his heartbroken here because he can't tell her.

977
00:56:50.039 --> 00:56:56.219
He can let her in in some ways and she's perfect for that, but he can't tell her that he loves her.

978
00:56:56.219 --> 00:56:59.940
And because she has just not a load of latex, Nathan.

979
00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:02.519
Yeah, that doesn't work all that does it?

980
00:57:02.579 --> 00:57:03.480
That's not super tender.

981
00:57:03.539 --> 00:57:04.440
Oh, she called him husband.

982
00:57:04.500 --> 00:57:05.579
And he called her white.

983
00:57:05.579 --> 00:57:06.780
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

984
00:57:06.840 --> 00:57:09.780
You could just see the Star Trek fans going, what?

985
00:57:09.900 --> 00:57:11.460
What is this?

986
00:57:11.519 --> 00:57:16.199
But I mean, I do think it doesn't properly land, and that's the problem, isn't it?

987
00:57:16.260 --> 00:57:23.340
It's a shame because it could have been a really great episode about Odo getting his heart broken, but it is...

988
00:57:23.340 --> 00:57:25.800
You know, I started acknowledging we are Star Trek fans.

989
00:57:25.860 --> 00:57:28.019
We've done nearly 100 episodes of this podcast now.

990
00:57:28.079 --> 00:57:31.619
I keep talking about them like we're not a part of them.

991
00:57:31.679 --> 00:57:35.460
No, we are them, but I think we like different things maybe.

992
00:57:35.519 --> 00:57:42.960
Like, I appreciate a good bit of technobabble and a good bit of action on the station and everyone getting their phases and tricorders out.

993
00:57:43.019 --> 00:57:43.380
That's great.

994
00:57:43.440 --> 00:57:47.699
Here, I thought it was just super lame and was padding out the plot.

995
00:57:47.760 --> 00:57:51.840
He's reading an and celebrity goes, I, I, especially like...

996
00:57:51.900 --> 00:57:52.440
Like the dad.

997
00:57:52.500 --> 00:57:53.280
Yeah.

998
00:57:53.340 --> 00:57:56.519
Although, and of course he does a typical, you know, his game.

999
00:57:56.579 --> 00:57:57.539
Yeah, the characters are great.

1000
00:57:57.599 --> 00:57:59.880
The plot was engaging. spelling was terrible.

1001
00:57:59.940 --> 00:58:02.039
Yeah, I thought that was really funny.

1002
00:58:02.099 --> 00:58:03.300
That was adorable.

1003
00:58:04.199 --> 00:58:06.719
And this as well.

1004
00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:20.880
You know, whether he can take responsibility for it or not, you know, because like the muse, you know, inspiration, like poetic or artistic inspiration is so inexplicable that we had the muses to explain them.

1005
00:58:20.880 --> 00:58:29.099
And there's a, there's a Socratic dialogue, an early Socratic dialogue, which is also about where do writers get their inspiration from.

1006
00:58:29.099 --> 00:58:33.659
And we decide that it's got to be divine in some way, because we don't know where it comes from.

1007
00:58:33.719 --> 00:58:37.019
And so the muse is a representation of that idea.

1008
00:58:37.260 --> 00:58:42.300
But he's, you know, deciding that he's taking responsibility.

1009
00:58:42.360 --> 00:58:43.139
He wrote this.

1010
00:58:43.199 --> 00:58:47.280
You know, she, you know, inspired him, but they were his words.

1011
00:58:47.400 --> 00:58:50.159
Did you notice now we see his book?

1012
00:58:50.219 --> 00:58:53.099
This was a musical queue from the visitor.

1013
00:58:53.159 --> 00:58:54.840
It's directly from the visitor.

1014
00:58:54.900 --> 00:58:57.119
So they make the link twice over.

1015
00:58:57.179 --> 00:58:58.019
And signing his name.

1016
00:58:58.079 --> 00:58:59.400
He signs his name to it.

1017
00:58:59.400 --> 00:59:02.579
Which is exactly how it is on the front of the book in the Vista.

1018
00:59:02.639 --> 00:59:03.239
Yeah, right.

1019
00:59:03.239 --> 00:59:06.000
But a dreadful sort of hologram version of it.

1020
00:59:06.960 --> 00:59:10.920
But like, and they say something about they needed to follow that up.

1021
00:59:10.980 --> 00:59:23.940
They'd never sort of gone anywhere with that after the visitor and it's kind of nice to have the origin story of that book in a sort of Star Trek science fiction plot that still acknowledges that it's his work.

1022
00:59:24.179 --> 00:59:37.320
One of the things that I've realised doing this podcast is just how much I love the soap aspects of 90 Streak, but DS9 in particular because DS9 only is into it more than all of the others.

1023
00:59:37.380 --> 00:59:51.059
And I think the reason why I differentiate you and me from Star Trek fandom, is Star Trek fandom as a whole would prefer faces, which is Star Trek.

1024
00:59:51.059 --> 00:59:56.219
Hycedral, you know, with a bit of horror thrown in and weird aliens and all of that.

1025
00:59:56.280 --> 01:00:09.059
I prefer Muse, which is not an entirely successful episode, but it's full of art and lovely characters and scenes that mean something, you know?

1026
01:00:09.119 --> 01:00:10.139
Yeah.

1027
01:00:10.199 --> 01:00:13.139
So I think I think we are a world apart.

1028
01:00:13.440 --> 01:00:16.500
Star Trek fandom normally is.

1029
01:00:16.559 --> 01:00:29.460
Yeah, I, yeah, I mean, but like, I have to say that, like, it's still Star Trek and I still sort of appreciate spaceships and space stations and all of that sort of thing, and I like a good procedural as well.

1030
01:00:29.519 --> 01:00:37.019
But here the procedural elements were very clearly just inserted to beef up.

1031
01:00:37.019 --> 01:00:39.300
What was a fairly linear plot?

1032
01:00:39.360 --> 01:00:40.679
Do you know what I mean?

1033
01:00:40.739 --> 01:00:45.840
To find a way of resolving it in a Star Trek way, which ends up being a fairly uninteresting way.

1034
01:00:45.900 --> 01:00:53.519
Like, what's a better way where Jake realises and rejects it himself, isn't it?

1035
01:00:53.579 --> 01:00:57.239
Like where he says no go away to her for some reason.

1036
01:00:57.300 --> 01:01:01.440
Well, I wouldn't object, had, had she stimulated the book.

1037
01:01:01.500 --> 01:01:04.320
And then they said goodbye and she went off.

1038
01:01:05.579 --> 01:01:09.480
We still have that scene at the end with him talking to Cisco, go, we don't need.

1039
01:01:09.539 --> 01:01:11.880
They just feel like they need some kind of drama.

1040
01:01:11.940 --> 01:01:13.440
But it's so empty.

1041
01:01:13.500 --> 01:01:16.679
Yeah, but don't you think that that's their attempt?

1042
01:01:16.739 --> 01:01:20.039
That's what they do to that to turn it into the A-plot?

1043
01:01:20.099 --> 01:01:26.460
Is they put all that boring shit in the end and give it some action and stuff and kind of ruin it?

1044
01:01:26.519 --> 01:01:34.559
And because they're not confident with how the B plot's going and they're right because the B plot doesn't quite work.

1045
01:01:34.619 --> 01:01:36.300
But it nearly works.

1046
01:01:36.360 --> 01:01:45.659
And again, I think probably the fact that it's a serialised TV show where they don't want to take Odo in that direction.

1047
01:01:45.719 --> 01:01:56.099
And having him heartbroken, overlook Xana's departure after a really public wedding, so everyone knows what he said.

1048
01:01:56.159 --> 01:01:57.539
Do you know what I mean?

1049
01:01:57.659 --> 01:02:07.079
That's something that they could have gone with, but instead, because they don't want to do that, they kind of play it all down and don't properly commit to it.

1050
01:02:08.219 --> 01:02:10.380
No one ever mentions it again.

1051
01:02:10.440 --> 01:02:12.059
Didn't you get married last week?

1052
01:02:12.119 --> 01:02:12.900
Where's she going?

1053
01:02:12.960 --> 01:02:14.039
Yeah, that's right.

1054
01:02:14.099 --> 01:02:14.820
That's right.

1055
01:02:14.940 --> 01:02:16.679
Yeah, no one ever mentions it again.

1056
01:02:16.739 --> 01:02:20.460
And sure, like that happens all the time in Deep Space 9, even.

1057
01:02:20.519 --> 01:02:24.780
There are things that happen where they kind of go, actually, we're not going to take that any further.

1058
01:02:24.840 --> 01:02:25.920
We'll just leave that there.

1059
01:02:25.980 --> 01:02:38.280
We've just had the episode 2 weeks ago where O'Brien tried to commit suicide after living out a 50-year prison sentence and was talked out of it and was so right.

1060
01:02:38.340 --> 01:02:41.820
You know, being counselling for the next couple of years, we never hear about it again.

1061
01:02:41.880 --> 01:02:42.719
That's right.

1062
01:02:42.780 --> 01:02:43.139
That's right.

1063
01:02:43.199 --> 01:02:43.800
Yeah.

1064
01:02:43.860 --> 01:02:47.219
So there are some things that they just decide not to go with and that's all fine.

1065
01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:54.659
But it is a little bit of a shame because I do think it, um, you know, it just kind of wrecked that plot and I, I kind of like that plot.

1066
01:02:54.719 --> 01:02:54.960
I think.

1067
01:02:55.019 --> 01:03:10.800
Just, I, one thing I want to say starter fans is, like sometimes step away from what you expect Star Trek to be and just enjoy good telly because on the terms of it being an amiable watch with good actors delivering good work.

1068
01:03:10.860 --> 01:03:13.739
That's not the worst DS9 episode.

1069
01:03:13.800 --> 01:03:16.679
That's not the worst episode of series four.

1070
01:03:16.739 --> 01:03:18.539
It's a fun watch.

1071
01:03:18.599 --> 01:03:22.500
It's just not delivering anything that those people expect to see.

1072
01:03:22.559 --> 01:03:26.460
You know, and it isn't quite as good as it probably should be.

1073
01:03:26.519 --> 01:03:28.500
No, I think that's true as well.

1074
01:03:28.559 --> 01:03:29.579
But it's fun.

1075
01:03:29.639 --> 01:03:31.739
I had fun with it Yeah, me too.

1076
01:03:36.360 --> 01:03:43.500
All right, it's the end of the episode and it is time for us to work out what we're going to be watching next time.

1077
01:03:43.559 --> 01:03:55.139
It's my go on the randomiser, and I am going to choose the 3 series that we have done less than 10% of the episodes of.

1078
01:03:55.380 --> 01:03:57.539
I don't know what they are.

1079
01:03:57.599 --> 01:03:58.019
Tell me.

1080
01:03:58.079 --> 01:04:01.559
So they are Star Trek the animated series.

1081
01:04:01.619 --> 01:04:02.699
Oh great.

1082
01:04:03.420 --> 01:04:06.059
Star Trek, the next generation.

1083
01:04:06.119 --> 01:04:08.159
We haven't done 10%.

1084
01:04:08.280 --> 01:04:09.900
Oh, there's a lot of...

1085
01:04:09.960 --> 01:04:10.260
Yeah.

1086
01:04:10.320 --> 01:04:11.940
And Star Trek enterprise.

1087
01:04:12.239 --> 01:04:13.860
Okay.

1088
01:04:13.920 --> 01:04:16.260
Yeah, so this is a terrible mix.

1089
01:04:16.320 --> 01:04:18.360
I think there's a one in three, Charles.

1090
01:04:18.420 --> 01:04:20.340
We're going to get something truly abysmal then.

1091
01:04:20.460 --> 01:04:22.559
Yeah, oh, I think it'd be higher than that.

1092
01:04:23.699 --> 01:04:25.679
Go on, then, off you go.

1093
01:04:25.800 --> 01:04:26.340
Here goes.

1094
01:04:26.460 --> 01:04:29.099
Oh, now this is a two-parter.

1095
01:04:29.159 --> 01:04:30.780
We would have to watch both of them.

1096
01:04:30.900 --> 01:04:32.579
I've got the time, don't worry.

1097
01:04:32.639 --> 01:04:34.019
Part two.

1098
01:04:34.619 --> 01:04:40.079
Your random Star Trek, The Next Generation episode is birthright part two.

1099
01:04:40.440 --> 01:04:44.699
Oh, wow, do you know that's the one that's set on DS 9, isn't it?

1100
01:04:44.760 --> 01:04:49.619
Yeah, yeah, but only episode one is set on DS9 and then all of that goes away for episode two.

1101
01:04:49.679 --> 01:04:51.480
I believe only episode one is any good as well.

1102
01:04:51.539 --> 01:04:52.980
I seem to remember episode 2 then.

1103
01:04:53.039 --> 01:04:54.119
Very boring.

1104
01:04:54.239 --> 01:05:01.139
So it's like a Klingon colony that's isolated or something and Wharf has to teach them true Klingon ways.

1105
01:05:01.199 --> 01:05:05.219
Data's having dreams about birds, boy, flying.

1106
01:05:05.280 --> 01:05:06.360
Well, that's in episode one.

1107
01:05:06.420 --> 01:05:15.360
And it's got that wonderful scene where Bashir comes on board the Enterprise and he asks Data if his hair grows, which is so great.

1108
01:05:15.420 --> 01:05:21.300
It's so funny as well, because it's early Bashir when Sid was doing like the dreadful British accent.

1109
01:05:21.360 --> 01:05:24.000
So he sort of walks in one scene and goes, data?

1110
01:05:24.059 --> 01:05:25.079
What's going on?

1111
01:05:25.559 --> 01:05:27.599
No, press it again.

1112
01:05:27.659 --> 01:05:28.860
I feel like I was All right.

1113
01:05:28.920 --> 01:05:29.460
Yeah, no.

1114
01:05:29.519 --> 01:05:39.900
All right, your random Star Trek Enterprise episode is season 3, episode 3, Extinction.

1115
01:05:39.960 --> 01:05:43.260
We've done one Zindi one, haven't we?

1116
01:05:43.320 --> 01:05:44.699
Because I'm sure that I've made fun of them.

1117
01:05:44.820 --> 01:05:45.719
Yeah.

1118
01:05:46.019 --> 01:05:49.679
You've made fun of them on episodes when we weren't covering it as well.

1119
01:05:49.739 --> 01:05:50.519
Oh, that's right.

1120
01:05:50.579 --> 01:05:51.840
Nothing else to talk about.

1121
01:05:52.019 --> 01:06:00.539
Okay, this is Star Trek Enterprise season 2, episode 24, 1st flight.

1122
01:06:01.199 --> 01:06:03.960
Oh, that's the one.

1123
01:06:04.079 --> 01:06:06.360
Well, we keep getting flashbacks.

1124
01:06:06.420 --> 01:06:09.420
It's Archer in the bar with a fella before they left Earth.

1125
01:06:09.480 --> 01:06:10.800
Right.

1126
01:06:10.920 --> 01:06:14.579
Just before the end of that season.

1127
01:06:14.639 --> 01:06:20.039
It's not like 1159, is it, in Voyager, where you've got...

1128
01:06:20.039 --> 01:06:22.679
And Kate Mulgrew getting to act her socks off.

1129
01:06:22.739 --> 01:06:23.760
Yeah, okay.

1130
01:06:23.820 --> 01:06:24.119
No.

1131
01:06:24.480 --> 01:06:31.739
Okay, season five, episode 9 of Star Trek, the Next Generation, a matter of time.

1132
01:06:31.860 --> 01:06:33.780
Oh, let's do that.

1133
01:06:33.840 --> 01:06:35.099
That's a fun one.

1134
01:06:35.159 --> 01:06:36.360
Matt Frewer, isn't it?

1135
01:06:36.420 --> 01:06:37.920
It's Matt Frewer. as a guest star.

1136
01:06:38.039 --> 01:06:38.820
Robin Williams?

1137
01:06:38.880 --> 01:06:39.239
you sure?

1138
01:06:39.300 --> 01:06:41.880
Yeah, I don't think he was available.

1139
01:06:41.940 --> 01:06:47.460
And so we got Matt Frewery in Mac's headroom to be the guy and he's super annoying.

1140
01:06:47.519 --> 01:06:50.400
It's another one of those sort of great guest actor ones.

1141
01:06:50.519 --> 01:07:07.380
It isn't like, I'm not sure it's a great episode, but it has got one of the best ever Picard lines where finally, they've bested Matt Frewer, and he goes, and by the way, Mr. Rasmussen, welcome to the 24th century. century, yeah.

1142
01:07:07.440 --> 01:07:12.059
Oh, I think that's a good mid-level film TNG episode.

1143
01:07:12.119 --> 01:07:13.079
Yeah, yeah.

1144
01:07:13.139 --> 01:07:13.559
Okay.

1145
01:07:13.619 --> 01:07:14.760
I think I could go for that.

1146
01:07:14.820 --> 01:07:18.960
I do remember it's got the worst ever designed aliens in it.

1147
01:07:19.019 --> 01:07:21.000
They might be our new Beau Mars.

1148
01:07:21.059 --> 01:07:22.199
Oh excellent.

1149
01:07:22.260 --> 01:07:26.340
Because obviously there's some, there's a, there's like a dreadful catastrophe occurring, isn't there?

1150
01:07:26.460 --> 01:07:27.900
that Matt Frewer knows about.

1151
01:07:27.960 --> 01:07:32.340
Oh, should you get involved, Captain, or should you not?

1152
01:07:32.400 --> 01:07:33.840
He's super annoying.

1153
01:07:33.900 --> 01:07:38.340
That's right We keep coming back to these boring aliens going, Captain Picard.

1154
01:07:38.400 --> 01:07:41.099
Help us out, please. really bad.

1155
01:07:41.159 --> 01:07:41.880
Sounds awesome.

1156
01:07:41.940 --> 01:07:44.460
I think that's the 5th 90s trek on the trot.

1157
01:07:45.000 --> 01:07:47.039
We do have to get through them.

1158
01:07:54.480 --> 01:07:59.519
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley.

1159
01:07:59.579 --> 01:08:06.000
We're online at untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1160
01:08:06.119 --> 01:08:11.579
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

1161
01:08:11.639 --> 01:08:17.340
This episode was recorded on the 30th of January 2024 and released on the 2nd of February.

1162
01:08:17.399 --> 01:08:21.539
We'll see you next time for Star Trek the Next Generation, a matter of time.

1163
01:08:40.619 --> 01:08:42.960
Yeah, I reckon that's all right.

1164
01:08:43.020 --> 01:08:43.560
I don't mind.

1165
01:08:43.619 --> 01:08:45.720
Oh, yeah, yeah.

1166
01:08:45.840 --> 01:08:48.180
I think we'll still be behind.

1167
01:08:48.600 --> 01:08:51.899
They were the 3 that are less than 10%.

1168
01:08:52.859 --> 01:08:56.340
So, yeah, the only 3 that are less.

1169
01:08:56.399 --> 01:09:00.779
Oh, probably kick us into Kurtzman next time because it's been a while.

1170
01:09:00.840 --> 01:09:02.100
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1171
01:09:02.159 --> 01:09:02.460
Yeah.

1172
01:09:02.579 --> 01:09:02.880
Yeah.

1173
01:09:02.939 --> 01:09:10.199
We did our big Hertzman, didn't we, when we did, um, But that was the 1st one this year that we came back.

1174
01:09:10.319 --> 01:09:15.359
I might just put in discovery actually, because I feel like we haven't done discovery for a long, long time.

1175
01:09:15.420 --> 01:09:21.239
So we are 7 out of 55, 12.73% of discovery.

1176
01:09:21.300 --> 01:09:25.079
So there's only going to be 65 episodes of discovery overall.

1177
01:09:25.140 --> 01:09:26.279
Yeah.

1178
01:09:26.340 --> 01:09:26.819
Yeah.

1179
01:09:27.720 --> 01:09:30.359
Yeah, less than original track.

1180
01:09:30.420 --> 01:09:35.279
Yeah. 100 less than 3 of the 90 shows.

1181
01:09:35.340 --> 01:09:36.479
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1182
01:09:36.539 --> 01:09:44.220
But, you know, like it was, it was where they cut their teeth on things and where they got to make all their mistakes and stuff.

1183
01:09:44.279 --> 01:09:50.399
We said about transit the other day, you know, without these mistakes being made, we wouldn't be where we are today.

1184
01:09:50.460 --> 01:09:54.899
No discovery, we don't get strange new worlds, you know, we don't get lower decks.

1185
01:09:54.960 --> 01:09:55.800
We don't get any of it.

1186
01:09:55.859 --> 01:09:56.760
We don't get that.

1187
01:09:56.819 --> 01:10:01.800
And like you pointing out many times, in many ways, it's the boldest of all of those.

1188
01:10:01.859 --> 01:10:03.659
Yeah.

1189
01:10:03.720 --> 01:10:10.319
The most DS9 like version of Star Trek in the new series, I think.

1190
01:10:13.380 --> 01:10:14.460
Anyway.

1191
01:10:14.460 --> 01:10:16.020
I forget which ones we done.

1192
01:10:16.920 --> 01:10:19.380
Of DS of Discovery.

1193
01:10:19.439 --> 01:10:20.279
Discovery.

1194
01:10:20.340 --> 01:10:22.859
We did we did the trio one.

1195
01:10:23.399 --> 01:10:27.000
Oh, we did at the end of season, didn't we?

1196
01:10:27.060 --> 01:10:27.960
end of season three.

1197
01:10:28.020 --> 01:10:29.640
We did with the green lady.

1198
01:10:29.640 --> 01:10:31.859
Yeah, we did.

1199
01:10:31.920 --> 01:10:33.779
No, was it that HSU part two?

1200
01:10:33.840 --> 01:10:35.699
Asire.

1201
01:10:35.760 --> 01:10:39.479
We did one episode in series four.

1202
01:10:39.479 --> 01:10:41.100
Magic to make the sanest man go mad.

1203
01:10:41.159 --> 01:10:44.100
We did the Time Loop episode with Rain Wilson.

1204
01:10:44.159 --> 01:10:49.680
Volving ambition, which was a boring one in the mirror universe, the most boring episode of series one.

1205
01:10:49.800 --> 01:10:59.100
If memory serves, also maybe the most boring episode of series two, um, Forget Me Not, which was just stunningly beautiful from series three.

1206
01:10:59.159 --> 01:11:00.420
That's the one with some.

1207
01:11:01.920 --> 01:11:03.119
Yeah, that's the true one.

1208
01:11:03.180 --> 01:11:05.340
We do the climax of series 3 as well, didn't we?

1209
01:11:05.399 --> 01:11:08.819
We did that hope is you part two, which is episode 17 of series.

1210
01:11:08.880 --> 01:11:13.739
And then we did the one where book went off at the end in the midseason break in series 4, do you remember?

1211
01:11:13.800 --> 01:11:14.279
We did that one.

1212
01:11:14.340 --> 01:11:16.020
Yeah, so that's but to connect.

1213
01:11:16.079 --> 01:11:17.819
So the examples, remember?

1214
01:11:17.880 --> 01:11:21.359
Remember that handsome guy?

1215
01:11:21.420 --> 01:11:22.079
The prisoners.

1216
01:11:22.140 --> 01:11:22.439
Yeah.

1217
01:11:22.500 --> 01:11:23.279
Yeah, yeah.

1218
01:11:23.340 --> 01:11:25.140
Which I've got quite a few then.

1219
01:11:25.199 --> 01:11:35.460
And but to connect, which is, the, where they're trying to decide what to do about the, what do they call?

1220
01:11:35.520 --> 01:11:36.359
The 10 C.

1221
01:11:36.420 --> 01:11:37.199
Yeah.

1222
01:11:37.260 --> 01:11:42.300
I feel like there's a lot of good discovery we haven't done yet then, because a lot of those are bit dumb.

1223
01:11:42.359 --> 01:11:46.739
Yeah, that 2nd half of series 4 is magic.

1224
01:11:46.800 --> 01:11:47.699
It's so great.

1225
01:11:47.760 --> 01:11:48.960
Fuck, it's good.

1226
01:11:49.020 --> 01:11:50.399
I just couldn't believe it.

1227
01:11:50.460 --> 01:11:51.180
Each episode.

1228
01:11:51.479 --> 01:11:53.220
Who said to me?

1229
01:11:53.279 --> 01:11:54.180
Oh, Colin Neal.

1230
01:11:54.239 --> 01:11:55.739
He didn't get on without at all.

1231
01:11:55.859 --> 01:11:57.899
The series 4.

1232
01:11:57.899 --> 01:11:59.579
Series 4 as a whole, yeah.

1233
01:11:59.640 --> 01:12:01.560
Yeah, no, I liked it a lot.

1234
01:12:01.619 --> 01:12:02.640
I think it's the best season.

1235
01:12:02.699 --> 01:12:10.140
I think your opinion is... the widely perceived opinion. was the best season, yeah.

1236
01:12:10.199 --> 01:12:16.619
Yeah, it sort of lands, but that, like, it gets the serialisation absolutely perfect.

1237
01:12:16.680 --> 01:12:34.619
Like each episode is about a thing and contributes to a big science fiction plot where they actually do science fiction and like, and it's about reaching out with some aliens that are completely incommensurate with anything that we know or understand.

1238
01:12:34.680 --> 01:12:38.460
So it's really, really proper Star Trek.

1239
01:12:38.520 --> 01:12:49.260
And, you know, it's that thing, the thing that they're trying to decide in, but to connect is, do we send a bomb to the 10 C or do we reach out after they've destroyed Books Planet?

1240
01:12:49.319 --> 01:12:50.279
Do you know what I mean?

1241
01:12:50.340 --> 01:12:53.100
and look like they're going to kill more.

1242
01:12:53.159 --> 01:12:58.380
I think as I still remember to have Sanequa staring off camera every now and again, tears in the eyes.

1243
01:12:58.500 --> 01:13:06.779
Do you remember, but to connect, where he leaves the ship, where book leaves discovery and his shit, and she's just there going, shit.

1244
01:13:06.840 --> 01:13:12.239
You know, we just, you know, we go out of a midseason break and it was, that was great.

1245
01:13:12.300 --> 01:13:15.300
I'll be interesting to see with five.

1246
01:13:15.300 --> 01:13:21.600
I just feel like the one, the 2 that we did in, or the characters were just there at that point.

1247
01:13:21.659 --> 01:13:24.899
They were just, they were formed, they were delivering.

1248
01:13:24.960 --> 01:13:27.180
The actors were all great together.

1249
01:13:27.239 --> 01:13:30.420
We were just, so it would be interesting to see with the last season.

1250
01:13:30.479 --> 01:13:32.039
It'd be interesting to see how they end it.

1251
01:13:32.100 --> 01:13:35.100
I think it's a caper or a heist or something too.

1252
01:13:35.159 --> 01:13:37.319
Like it sounds like they're going to be a bit more fun.

1253
01:13:38.220 --> 01:13:43.319
Yeah, yeah, I think that would be that would be great. particularly.

1254
01:13:43.380 --> 01:13:47.460
And looking over their shoulder at Stranger Wells and going, oh, look at all the fun they're having over there.

1255
01:13:47.579 --> 01:13:53.159
They are having fun over there, and but we could do a big serialised story, which we do every year.

1256
01:13:53.220 --> 01:13:57.899
Like that's what we do on Star Trek Discovery.

1257
01:13:57.960 --> 01:14:03.300
So we get to do a single big heist over 10 episodes, which I think will be really fun.

1258
01:14:03.359 --> 01:14:04.920
Yeah, sounds great.

1259
01:14:04.979 --> 01:14:05.760
Yeah, yeah.

1260
01:14:05.819 --> 01:14:07.020
And that starts in April.

1261
01:14:07.140 --> 01:14:12.060
So, so we get that in April on Doctor Who in May.

1262
01:14:12.119 --> 01:14:13.560
Hmm?

1263
01:14:13.560 --> 01:14:14.640
Yeah.

1264
01:14:14.699 --> 01:14:15.840
Happy days.