WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 22:11:28

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So we're back in Star Trek Voyager, and we're in season one, which

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we kind of like, although I think we've only done one season one

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before, and we've done a couple of season 2s, but this is quite

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early.

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This is episode 14, it's not early in the season because it's a

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really short season, isn't it?

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It only goes to like 15 or 16.

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Truncated season, isn't it?

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4 season one episodes, including the 37s and Twisted, were pushed

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over to start off series 2 in such an incredible way.

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Not. dear, dear.

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So this is called faces, and I said last time that when we were

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younger, we called it B'lana split. should have gone with that

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we're really funny You know what, right?

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There is a memory alpha page that goes on the length of a Bible

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for faces, and no one once makes that obvious joke, a lot of

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split.

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I was waiting for it, thinking someone's going to say it. nobody

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does.

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Which kind of suggests that there's very little wit going on in

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the Voyager office at this point.

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Yeah, look, I didn't mind this, but I do think it's a very kind of

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mid-episode.

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We've been talking about whether we do too many crappy ones or too

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many good ones and maybe what we don't do enough of is these just

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terribly mid-range ones.

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So I think this has a reasonable kind of conceit.

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It's fairly obvious, you know, you've got a half human, half

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Klingon.

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We've never really had that before, apart from special emissary

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Kayla.

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And so we get to split her in a science fiction way into a human

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and a Klingon, and then the 2 of them interact with each other and

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we learn more about B'Alana's character.

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And all of that is kind of a bit obvious, and they don't do

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anything super surprising with it.

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And in fact, I think what they end up doing is probably slightly

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bad, and I'll talk about why I think that later.

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But apart from that, you know, it's reasonably agreeable and it's

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early Voyager, that's kind of fun.

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It's leaning into what Brandon Bragger said you wanted to bring

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into Voyager, which is sort of horror and weirdness.

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I think the X-Files was mentioned at one point.

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That's the sort of thing they're trying to do.

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And there are a few moments in this that could be that, you know

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wouldn't be unusual to see in like a monster of the week, X-Mile

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episode.

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I think this has one stunningly good moment in it.

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I loved it in the day and I love it now and everything else in

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this episode is very mediocre, maybe just a bit under mediocre.

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The plotting is so in a time when Voyager shouldn't have

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functional plotting yet.

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Like they shouldn't have figured out how to be functional.

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This really is, you know, investigate to find the people take us

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through every single step to find them.

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It's it's like what TNG 56 and 7 did when they were a bit

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desperate.

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You know what I mean?

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It's like, following a trail of breadcrumbs, finding them, turning

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themselves into the indigenous population, going down a lame mass

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phase of fight, you know, into the stock caves number 56 to hide

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away from the Vidians, the 2 characters meeting, learning

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something about each other, and then the episode comes to an end.

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Like it's so functional, this.

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I remember it being a bit bolder. and a bit more exciting.

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So maybe I was just my critical faculty. just weren't functioning

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as a child.

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I think that this is done better in 2nd chances in TNG.

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And I think...

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Yeah, because what you have there is Riker is split by a weird

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transporter accident and you have the Riker who decided to end his

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relationship with Diana, is our Riker.

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And then the Riker who never did that, is the other Riker, which

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is why it's called 2nd chances.

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And so we get to see the same man reflect on how the decision has

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changed him and that sort of thing.

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And I think that's unusual for Star Trek, the Next Generation, but

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it's quite late in the run.

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And it's just got a character up within the episode itself.

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Yeah, that's leaning into the backstory of Troy and Roy and all of

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this.

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That's really interesting.

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Whereas, you know, the central premise here is is Blada Torres is

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at battle.

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She's at war with herself, you know, half Klingon, half human.

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But, and they say this in memory alpha.

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They couldn't draw a line under that because they wanted to

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continue to explore it.

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So what happens is they separate the pair of them and then they

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come back together again and she's as confused as she was at the

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beginning of the episode, basically.

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So there's there's no point to this.

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In fact, one of the interesting things is that it covers a lot of

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the same ground as lineage, which is a much later episode, which

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was... at this point in series 7 episode.

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Yeah, so it was our 3rd episode.

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And it also has B'Elana worried about her Klingon heritage and we

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illustrate that because there's a science fiction way that she can

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affect how her baby looks.

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Um, and so we get some of this stuff and the father leaving and

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all of that.

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That story contradicts this story, but I think it does a much

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better job of telling that story.

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Well, it sort of, it does give Bilana a conclusion to draw, you

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know?

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And At the end of that episode, do you feel like she, there's the

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the epiphany has been reached, you know?

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She's learned something about herself here.

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She's learned what that she should be half human, half Klingon.

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No, I think she's learned that she needs to be half Klingon, that

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part of what she values about herself is her half Klingon half.

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But the way we go about that is to show both sides separated to

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such extremes.

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The human B'lana is such a wimp.

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And the Klingon Balana is such a, you know, bold, confident

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warrior.

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And I just don't believe that the separation is that 50-50?

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It's, it, it lacks any sort of subtlety, this.

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No, but I think I think some of it is done rather well, and I'll

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point out those bits as we get to them, because I think there are

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little moments, little moments in that plot that are surprising

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and that do have something to say.

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I'd like to make a comparison like you, because you went that 2nd

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chance is, I want to take us forward to Chuvix, which is doing the

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opposite of this, instead of splitting 2 people apart.

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It's mushing 2 people together.

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It's very voyage at this, isn't it?

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This weird science.

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But within that, it becomes about the fact that those 2 characters

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are conjoined, who that person is, the relationships with the crew

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and then the very difficult decision at the end.

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It's a really dramatic, unforgettable episode.

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Nobody forgets Jubix.

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So much so that an episode Lower Decks is named after it way in

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the future.

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I don't believe there's an episode of lower decks called faces, you

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know?

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No.

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No one remembers this for a reason.

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Yeah, I think that's I think that's probably fair.

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It is a sort of obvious one to do.

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And so it's not surprising to see it in series one and it turns

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out they mostly make obvious choices about it.

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And Roxanne Dawson does say, and she goes on to say, Miniac, this

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is one of her favourites to do because it was an acting challenge

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to play 2 different parts.

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I question some of the choices that she made, though.

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And I wonder if a firmer director shouldn't have said, do you know

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what?

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This is a bit black and white.

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Let's mix this up a bit.

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And she even says herself, there's a quote on memory out of her

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saying a few years later, when I understood the character of

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B'Elana, because they've done, you know, a ton of episodes by that

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point, she would have played the whole thing completely

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differently.

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Yeah.

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So it's a curiosity for sure.

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And we'll get to the one scene.

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I think you know which one it is.

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It's one of the best horror moments ever in 90s trek, but I do

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think everything's basically leading up to that and away from it.

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And and sort of everything else around of it.

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It is as by numbers as 90s trek gets.

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Well, let's go and enjoy it, shall we?

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Exciting, isn't it?

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All right.

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By numbers nine, East Trek is what we're here for.

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Exactly.

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I'll have to admit to you, lovely listeners, that it's so boring

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this episode, that Nathan, every week we do the Zoom call, and he

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puts a screenshot up behind him of the episode.

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And, you know, we did an Enterprise one where it was a fabulous

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Corassant style cityscape, and, you know, we've done ones of DS9

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with ice asteroids floating in space.

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For faces.

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Nathan has regaled me with a picture of some very beige carpet.

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Why is that, Nathan?

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So it's the carpet on the floor of the lab.

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Because this episode has no ambition to be visually interesting

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beyond perhaps that striking moment that you mentioned before

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there's nearly no scenes that don't have just actors in them

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talking.

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And so it was impossible to kind of find anything.

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So I grabbed a sort of half a 2nd of the floor of the laboratory

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and here we are.

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Often, you summed up the episode rather well with that.

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I think I have.

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Although maybe use something else for the website.

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All right, I'll count us in.

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I'm ready.

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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

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I remember what I was going to ask you, actually.

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Does Lieutenant Durst appear before this?

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Yes, he's in Cafixis last week.

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Oh, another memorable episode.

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Shakotay spirit flying around the ship, invading everybody.

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So this is a very, very short teaser.

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And so we just get to hear this Vedian who we don't actually see

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and then we see this Klingon woman and then we're told it's B'lana

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and it is a really striking look.

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Don't you think the makeup looks really good?

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Well, only because we're used to seeing it so soft.

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It was a normal, yeah, on character.

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It wouldn't be too shocking.

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I do want to contradict something you just said a minute ago

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though.

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There is one thing I did think was rather impressive in this, and

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I thought there was some good dramatic lighting in faces.

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And as we go through, I'm going to point out at the moments

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because there's so little visual interest elsewhere because the

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sets are really boring.

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Really, really.

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Whoever's on the light in duty this week has realised this.

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Sorry, he tries to pick people out in the silhouette and even that

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that teaser there where you had sort of green and dark jet.

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It's trying to make you look a bit more interesting than it

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otherwise would have because otherwise it would just be a slow pan

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over a character, which is very boring.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, so this is Rick Colby, by the way, who directed it and he's

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the one who did, um, all good things.

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He's stalwart of the...

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I think he did CJR 558 as well.

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He's done some popular episodes.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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And you know, right?

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Like, you know, we've said before, this is a bit like a sausage

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factory. churning these things now.

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Why, absolutely.

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You can only have a certain amount of ambition because you're

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doing these 16 hour days.

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You've got 3 days to shoot the bloody thing.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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It is crazy.

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Sometimes you do just have to point and shoot.

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I did notice, however, that the teaser did obey Nathan Bottomley

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Star Trek teaser rule number one, though.

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It is what the episode is about.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Except in a sense, though, it's not quite because, I guess, I

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guess it's how B'Elana sees herself in a way.

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Do you know what I mean?

247
00:12:33.659 --> 00:12:37.860
Like, she's surrounded by human beings, by people from Earth, and

248
00:12:37.860 --> 00:12:40.559
she is a Klingon.

249
00:12:40.620 --> 00:12:44.100
And so what it looks like is, B'alana's been turned into a

250
00:12:44.100 --> 00:12:44.519
Klingon.

251
00:12:44.580 --> 00:12:47.220
This is the episode where she's been turned into a Klingon.

252
00:12:47.279 --> 00:12:50.820
And we're not disabused of that for quite some while.

253
00:12:50.879 --> 00:12:52.740
We have done this, haven't we?

254
00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:55.860
Obviously, we've had Kira as a Cardassian in 2nd scan with that.

255
00:12:55.860 --> 00:12:58.320
Troy as a Romulan in face of the enemy.

256
00:12:58.379 --> 00:13:01.019
So it's not like, what is this baffling?

257
00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:03.600
This weird cut straight back to Voyager again.

258
00:13:03.659 --> 00:13:05.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

259
00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:08.940
And I've seen where Neelix makes plumique soup for tuba.

260
00:13:09.059 --> 00:13:10.080
Play meek soup.

261
00:13:10.139 --> 00:13:13.679
Playmake soup is the thing that, you know, Spock throws against

262
00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:18.659
the wall when Christine Chappel serves it to him in a muck time.

263
00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:22.440
So it is classic...

264
00:13:22.500 --> 00:13:25.440
But we've just had a teaser where Bilala Torres has been turned

265
00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:26.159
into a Klingon.

266
00:13:26.220 --> 00:13:27.960
Why am I now watching Chewbok eat soup?

267
00:13:28.019 --> 00:13:29.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

268
00:13:29.700 --> 00:13:30.299
Yeah.

269
00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:34.379
This is a kind of pointless scene and I guess it is just character

270
00:13:34.379 --> 00:13:35.100
staff.

271
00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:37.559
I do like these 2 together.

272
00:13:37.620 --> 00:13:38.519
Don't get me wrong.

273
00:13:38.580 --> 00:13:39.299
Chewbok and me.

274
00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:42.600
I mean, there are moments where Neelix can be incredibly annoying

275
00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:44.759
and he's verging on annoying here.

276
00:13:45.299 --> 00:13:49.200
Yeah, I'm not sure how this scene ends as well.

277
00:13:49.259 --> 00:13:51.240
The scene ends in a very, very odd way.

278
00:13:51.299 --> 00:13:53.519
And picking up the soup and drinking it.

279
00:13:53.580 --> 00:13:58.379
And yeah, but it's kind of as if it is if they think they've just

280
00:13:58.379 --> 00:14:00.840
delivered us a punchline, but they haven't, you know?

281
00:14:00.899 --> 00:14:04.139
No, for that is a common problem with Voyager, you know.

282
00:14:04.139 --> 00:14:06.779
They linger on the joke, which isn't funny at all.

283
00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:07.500
That's right.

284
00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:08.519
But there isn't a joke.

285
00:14:08.700 --> 00:14:09.659
And...

286
00:14:09.659 --> 00:14:10.919
Yeah.

287
00:14:10.980 --> 00:14:12.240
Shame.

288
00:14:12.360 --> 00:14:14.039
But the chemistry's good.

289
00:14:14.279 --> 00:14:15.960
So, yeah.

290
00:14:16.019 --> 00:14:18.899
I mean, you know, like we're learning who these people are, I

291
00:14:18.899 --> 00:14:20.759
guess, at this point in the run.

292
00:14:20.820 --> 00:14:25.559
So he sits down and eats it with, not, well, yeah, drinks it.

293
00:14:25.559 --> 00:14:26.399
He picks up a whole bowl.

294
00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:27.960
But what does he say?

295
00:14:28.019 --> 00:14:30.000
He says, is it?

296
00:14:30.059 --> 00:14:31.679
Oh, it's pecan or something like that?

297
00:14:31.740 --> 00:14:34.320
Oh, there's no place to my place like home.

298
00:14:34.379 --> 00:14:35.159
That's not funny.

299
00:14:35.220 --> 00:14:36.299
Like, that makes no sense.

300
00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:37.559
Like, what's that?

301
00:14:37.620 --> 00:14:40.679
I don't even get it about perfectly tailored carpet there on the

302
00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:40.919
bridge.

303
00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:41.700
Yes.

304
00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:42.419
Yeah, yeah.

305
00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:44.700
We were talking about the carpet on the Enterprise Bridge and the

306
00:14:44.700 --> 00:14:46.559
way Discovery doesn't have carpet anymore.

307
00:14:46.620 --> 00:14:47.759
We don't have carpet anymore.

308
00:14:47.820 --> 00:14:51.600
I like to think, since I've seen those pictures of Picard series 3

309
00:14:51.600 --> 00:14:54.600
with the signs up saying, do not walk on the carpet.

310
00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:57.840
You know, when they did the Enterprise bridge again.

311
00:14:57.899 --> 00:15:00.840
That there was always signs like that for every episode.

312
00:15:00.899 --> 00:15:03.960
You know, don't walk on a buddy. just moving it, right?

313
00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:07.860
Oh, it's season one Janeway here.

314
00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:12.960
I quite like it. not my favourite Janeway hair, but I do quite

315
00:15:12.960 --> 00:15:13.379
like it.

316
00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:15.240
What is old is?

317
00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:17.039
She only delivers technobabble in this.

318
00:15:17.100 --> 00:15:19.080
She really doesn't count to moment in any of it.

319
00:15:19.139 --> 00:15:20.340
Boring, isn't it?

320
00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:25.679
Like we're talking about how the how the cave corridors have been

321
00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:26.639
shifting around.

322
00:15:26.700 --> 00:15:28.379
Like, so what?

323
00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:29.580
You know...

324
00:15:29.639 --> 00:15:32.220
That the best way of describing it, you know, cave corridors

325
00:15:32.220 --> 00:15:35.820
because essentially, it is basically 2 corridors that they just

326
00:15:35.820 --> 00:15:38.519
shift about to make it look as if we've got a labyrinth.

327
00:15:38.700 --> 00:15:41.879
Oh, now we're doing the breadcrumbs conversation.

328
00:15:41.940 --> 00:15:43.860
I'll message you again. nine.

329
00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:44.460
Yeah, yeah.

330
00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:47.759
I was like, so they've made a metaphor to cut to the chase.

331
00:15:47.820 --> 00:15:48.899
It's breadcrumbs.

332
00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:50.220
We're going to go and find them great.

333
00:15:50.279 --> 00:15:54.779
But then they will have to explain the metaphor with the techno

334
00:15:54.779 --> 00:15:55.259
babble.

335
00:15:55.320 --> 00:15:57.299
So the scene takes 3 times as long.

336
00:15:57.360 --> 00:15:58.200
It's really weird.

337
00:15:58.919 --> 00:16:02.100
Yeah, it's it is a bit crap, isn't it?

338
00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:04.320
90s Strek does that quite a lot though, doesn't it?

339
00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:10.620
I mean, like in a sense, that's the procedural stuff and I kind of

340
00:16:10.620 --> 00:16:13.019
like it and I kind of get the appeal of it.

341
00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:15.899
But no one in that scene wants anything.

342
00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:19.500
I mean, they, uh, like, have they received a message?

343
00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:21.539
They've received a message and they're missing or something?

344
00:16:21.659 --> 00:16:22.500
Oh, look.

345
00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:27.659
So this is the Vedians, and we've never, we've never done of a D

346
00:16:27.659 --> 00:16:31.139
an episode, uh, on untitled Star Trek project.

347
00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:33.000
Now there's only been one before this.

348
00:16:33.059 --> 00:16:36.840
The one where Neelix had his vocal calls taken out.

349
00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:42.179
Yes, and we did do resolutions which does have that...

350
00:16:42.179 --> 00:16:43.139
Oh, Dr. Pol in it.

351
00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:43.500
Yeah.

352
00:16:43.620 --> 00:16:44.340
Yeah, yeah.

353
00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:47.879
And which references all of these previous episodes, including

354
00:16:47.879 --> 00:16:48.419
this one, actually.

355
00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:49.500
I think it does.

356
00:16:49.620 --> 00:16:51.000
I really like the Vegas.

357
00:16:51.059 --> 00:16:55.080
I think they're the best of series one and two.

358
00:16:55.139 --> 00:16:59.039
They're the best race that they made up because it's both horrific

359
00:16:59.039 --> 00:16:59.879
and tragic.

360
00:16:59.940 --> 00:17:02.700
And I think that's a good line to sort of straddle, you know?

361
00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:06.960
Because they've sort of got posh accents and, you know, they

362
00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:10.140
belong to the Vidian sodality, which, you know, that's a Poncy

363
00:17:10.140 --> 00:17:10.500
word.

364
00:17:10.500 --> 00:17:14.460
And, and, but they're disgusting and they're aware that they're

365
00:17:14.460 --> 00:17:17.160
physically revolting, you know, that that's the thing.

366
00:17:17.220 --> 00:17:18.720
They're sort of cursed.

367
00:17:18.779 --> 00:17:23.339
And so this is actually the actor who plays Ensign Durst

368
00:17:23.339 --> 00:17:24.720
Lieutenant Durst.

369
00:17:24.779 --> 00:17:25.200
Yeah.

370
00:17:25.259 --> 00:17:26.819
And so this is that actor.

371
00:17:26.940 --> 00:17:29.339
That's a clever savvy move, isn't it?

372
00:17:29.400 --> 00:17:29.819
Yeah.

373
00:17:29.880 --> 00:17:30.660
Well, yeah, yeah.

374
00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:33.779
So they get so they get him to play him for, you know, there's an

375
00:17:33.779 --> 00:17:36.839
obvious reason later on play the 2 characters are played by the

376
00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:37.319
same actor.

377
00:17:37.380 --> 00:17:44.099
He was in Homeworld and he was the little guy who kept records for

378
00:17:44.099 --> 00:17:48.660
the entire kind of community and he wanders onto the Enterprise

379
00:17:48.660 --> 00:17:52.799
off the holodeck onto the Enterprise and ends up killing himself.

380
00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:57.779
Um, and it's actually, you know, maybe the most interesting thing

381
00:17:57.779 --> 00:17:58.680
about that episode.

382
00:17:58.740 --> 00:18:02.400
And then, of course, he's in the cards, he's Geiger, who develops

383
00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:05.160
the sale entertainment machine in the cards.

384
00:18:05.220 --> 00:18:07.440
Can I ask you a question, yeah?

385
00:18:07.500 --> 00:18:08.400
Are you bored?

386
00:18:08.460 --> 00:18:09.180
Yes.

387
00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:12.000
Unfortunate episode I am, yeah.

388
00:18:12.059 --> 00:18:13.019
Yeah.

389
00:18:13.079 --> 00:18:18.599
So what we do need to talk about, though, is Roxanne's choices

390
00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:18.839
here?

391
00:18:18.900 --> 00:18:24.240
I don't know why she's saying every line like this.

392
00:18:24.299 --> 00:18:26.700
It's a strange bizarre choice.

393
00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:30.000
She does cut it out at some point.

394
00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:30.900
Yeah, she does.

395
00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:31.799
Yeah.

396
00:18:31.859 --> 00:18:36.480
She cuts it out in time for her to actually not have it hamper her

397
00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:38.460
in the most important scenes.

398
00:18:38.519 --> 00:18:40.440
I wonder if she'd shot some bits, Nathan, and naked.

399
00:18:40.500 --> 00:18:41.160
No, don't do that.

400
00:18:41.220 --> 00:18:43.140
Yeah, maybe that's it.

401
00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:45.660
Like, she thinks that Klingons are space people.

402
00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:49.440
Like maybe she's not really into Star Trek and she doesn't really

403
00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:52.380
know anything very much about it and she's only just started doing

404
00:18:52.380 --> 00:18:52.920
it.

405
00:18:52.980 --> 00:18:55.200
And, you know, she hasn't gone back and watched a whole heap of

406
00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:57.480
crappy Star Trek because that wouldn't have helped anyway.

407
00:18:57.539 --> 00:19:01.140
I mean, what, she looks a bit like Lurser or Bator here.

408
00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:04.079
The trouble is there isn't a Klingon in Voyager, is there?

409
00:19:04.140 --> 00:19:05.039
Apart from her.

410
00:19:05.099 --> 00:19:07.200
So what's her reference point?

411
00:19:07.259 --> 00:19:09.000
She's got to make it out.

412
00:19:09.059 --> 00:19:10.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

413
00:19:10.500 --> 00:19:13.559
And she's not aware of what Michael Dawn is doing or whatever and

414
00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:15.539
so she does this strange thing.

415
00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:20.099
And it is the sort of strange overanunciating thing that Kleons do

416
00:19:20.099 --> 00:19:22.259
and she's got the teeth and all of that sort of thing, which is a

417
00:19:22.259 --> 00:19:22.680
bit of a problem.

418
00:19:22.740 --> 00:19:23.940
Lighting watch.

419
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:27.299
So I do like that grid in the ceiling and the light coming through

420
00:19:27.299 --> 00:19:30.000
that's throwing all the light across it because otherwise that

421
00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:33.480
would be the most boring set you've ever seen in your life

422
00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:34.079
otherwise.

423
00:19:34.619 --> 00:19:39.240
I do think the fella does differentiate between Zulan and Durst

424
00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:42.180
really well because the 1st time I watched this, I had no clue. was

425
00:19:42.180 --> 00:19:42.960
the same actor.

426
00:19:43.019 --> 00:19:47.940
Well, he's on a sort of under a hole. bunch of latex, though, you

427
00:19:47.940 --> 00:19:48.539
would never have known.

428
00:19:48.599 --> 00:19:51.720
That's another compliment I want to throw on this episode.

429
00:19:51.779 --> 00:19:53.640
I do think that the DM makeup.

430
00:19:53.700 --> 00:19:55.259
It is horrible.

431
00:19:55.319 --> 00:19:56.940
But that's a good thing.

432
00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:02.339
I mean, you can see sort of by protruding and graphs that have

433
00:20:02.339 --> 00:20:05.160
been put on in different places and it is a bit nasty.

434
00:20:05.339 --> 00:20:07.920
It is sort of PG horror though, isn't it?

435
00:20:07.980 --> 00:20:08.640
Do you know what I mean?

436
00:20:08.700 --> 00:20:09.900
Like it's not too...

437
00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:11.279
I kind of think it has to be, though, doesn't it?

438
00:20:11.339 --> 00:20:13.980
I don't know what time stop this was going out at.

439
00:20:14.039 --> 00:20:16.859
But I know the VHS is coming out.

440
00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:19.319
They were all PGs with the occasional 15.

441
00:20:19.619 --> 00:20:21.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

442
00:20:21.539 --> 00:20:21.839
Yeah.

443
00:20:21.900 --> 00:20:22.440
Yeah.

444
00:20:22.500 --> 00:20:25.859
But it is, you know, like we're going to do horror, but we're not

445
00:20:25.859 --> 00:20:26.700
going to do it very much.

446
00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:27.960
Do you know what I mean?

447
00:20:28.019 --> 00:20:29.099
is kind of the idea.

448
00:20:29.160 --> 00:20:30.539
Oh, here we go.

449
00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:33.359
Here's another talaxian, a skinny talaxian.

450
00:20:33.420 --> 00:20:36.539
He pops up twice again, actually, the actor.

451
00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:40.019
I think it's in fair trade and then later Neelix's last episode

452
00:20:40.019 --> 00:20:40.680
Homewood.

453
00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:43.619
Oh, I forget what that was called now.

454
00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:44.640
Right the end.

455
00:20:44.700 --> 00:20:45.599
Homecoming?

456
00:20:45.660 --> 00:20:46.619
No.

457
00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:47.819
No, that's DS 9.

458
00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:49.980
We've got a lot of homes.

459
00:20:50.039 --> 00:20:52.019
There's a lot of episodes, all right?

460
00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:52.859
coming home.

461
00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:54.240
Discovery.

462
00:20:54.299 --> 00:20:56.460
But like all of this stuff.

463
00:20:56.519 --> 00:21:00.480
Like we said, all the stuff on the, on Voyager, them following the

464
00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:02.579
train of breadcrumbs, I think we probably had that conversation

465
00:21:02.579 --> 00:21:03.960
before on TNG.

466
00:21:04.019 --> 00:21:07.559
We've certainly had this, being thrown in the sale and finding, you

467
00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:10.259
know, another race from the quadrant about, they've done that

468
00:21:10.259 --> 00:21:11.099
intinge.

469
00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:11.940
There's just nothing.

470
00:21:12.299 --> 00:21:15.900
No, there's just nothing to this, is there?

471
00:21:16.259 --> 00:21:20.039
Aside from the sort of the ickiness, the occasional wickiness.

472
00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:23.819
The Vidines are a good idea, and I guess they're kind of like the

473
00:21:23.819 --> 00:21:24.839
Borg, aren't they?

474
00:21:24.900 --> 00:21:28.500
They kind of take over alien races, carve them up and use them as

475
00:21:28.500 --> 00:21:30.299
parts.

476
00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:34.559
And so, I mean, you've got what is that 1st episode with Neelix's

477
00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:34.859
lungs?

478
00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:35.700
It's preposterous.

479
00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:38.220
Well, I can't even remember what it's called, the phage, I guess.

480
00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:39.119
Yeah, phage.

481
00:21:39.180 --> 00:21:39.720
Yeah, that's it.

482
00:21:39.779 --> 00:21:43.559
And that is Branham Braga, and that was him sitting in his stall

483
00:21:43.559 --> 00:21:45.900
with Voyager and saying, this is the sort of stuff I want to

484
00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:46.200
tell.

485
00:21:46.259 --> 00:21:47.460
Oh, here we go now.

486
00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:48.900
Stock cave number 89.

487
00:21:49.140 --> 00:21:50.759
One, number one.

488
00:21:50.819 --> 00:21:52.619
They've got 56 before.

489
00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:55.500
I do like it when they put in a bit of water as well, you know

490
00:21:55.500 --> 00:21:55.920
just to.

491
00:21:56.640 --> 00:21:58.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

492
00:21:58.680 --> 00:22:02.700
Gar Wang was bitching and whinging on memory alpha about how all

493
00:22:02.700 --> 00:22:06.539
he had to do in this episode was deliver Tecla Babble completely.

494
00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:08.940
That's what he did for 7 years on watch.

495
00:22:09.299 --> 00:22:13.319
Except where he gets to be cute in the killing game and that's

496
00:22:13.319 --> 00:22:13.619
about it.

497
00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:16.920
Oh, that was lovely when it was all roughed up.

498
00:22:16.980 --> 00:22:17.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

499
00:22:17.940 --> 00:22:18.599
Carp.

500
00:22:18.779 --> 00:22:24.359
So again, like I guess this is supposed to be fun, but it is

501
00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:25.619
incredibly boring.

502
00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:27.420
It is just eating up time, isn't it?

503
00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:28.619
It is.

504
00:22:28.680 --> 00:22:33.240
I feel, um, beyond uh, our Hannibal lect moment that's coming.

505
00:22:33.299 --> 00:22:38.339
The best of this episode was when we learn about Zulan, where we

506
00:22:38.339 --> 00:22:40.740
learn about the Vidians being a beautiful race.

507
00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:45.240
Um, that sort of leaning into the tragedy of him.

508
00:22:45.299 --> 00:22:49.380
At one point, he goes to touch her face and he's desperate to have

509
00:22:49.380 --> 00:22:51.779
sort of contact with somebody, but because he's so hideous, he

510
00:22:51.779 --> 00:22:53.160
knows that's going to happen.

511
00:22:53.220 --> 00:22:54.960
Yeah, I light on that.

512
00:22:55.019 --> 00:22:56.099
Yeah.

513
00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:58.680
Well, that's about 5 minutes of the episode.

514
00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:05.039
Oh, the forceful, ragged breathing, so it's the subtitles.

515
00:23:06.420 --> 00:23:08.940
That could be anything, couldn't it?

516
00:23:10.619 --> 00:23:13.319
She is still going to be doing this thing.

517
00:23:13.380 --> 00:23:14.880
Oh, does she speak in this one though?

518
00:23:14.940 --> 00:23:15.779
Yeah.

519
00:23:15.900 --> 00:23:18.839
Yeah, even the eye is hard to look at.

520
00:23:18.900 --> 00:23:20.940
Like, it's not just the face, but the fact that he's got that

521
00:23:20.940 --> 00:23:25.859
cloudy contact lens on his left eye is sort of a bit off putting, I

522
00:23:25.859 --> 00:23:25.980
think.

523
00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:31.019
And what I like is, is the fact that um, 2 podians come in later

524
00:23:31.019 --> 00:23:34.680
on, don't they, to select victims and things like this.

525
00:23:34.740 --> 00:23:38.460
And so you're kind of shown, there's 2 sides to this race.

526
00:23:38.519 --> 00:23:39.119
There's him.

527
00:23:39.180 --> 00:23:42.960
He's a sort of thoughtful scientist that wants this to improve.

528
00:23:43.019 --> 00:23:47.880
And then you've got the sort of the functionaries that they don't

529
00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:50.220
mind being the villains, you know, and they don't they don't

530
00:23:50.220 --> 00:23:50.759
mind...

531
00:23:50.819 --> 00:23:54.180
Well, hacking people up for organs.

532
00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:54.960
Yeah, yeah.

533
00:23:55.019 --> 00:23:57.599
And we do, and there's a couple of episodes, like, you know, like

534
00:23:57.599 --> 00:24:01.019
deadlock, where they're scouring through the decks of void

535
00:24:01.019 --> 00:24:03.299
knocking people out and go, right.

536
00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:04.799
This one's got great lungs.

537
00:24:04.859 --> 00:24:05.220
Great.

538
00:24:08.700 --> 00:24:10.619
Yeah, I see what you mean about the lighting.

539
00:24:10.680 --> 00:24:13.079
They are at least trying to do something about the lighting, but

540
00:24:13.079 --> 00:24:14.160
it is super boring.

541
00:24:14.220 --> 00:24:16.380
He's underlit here as well.

542
00:24:16.440 --> 00:24:19.079
So his makeup looks a bit more shock than it could be.

543
00:24:19.140 --> 00:24:21.720
Yeah, it's the sets that are the problem.

544
00:24:21.779 --> 00:24:25.559
They can't get out of this sort of just the standard bits that

545
00:24:25.559 --> 00:24:28.619
they assemble like a flat action every week.

546
00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:29.819
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

547
00:24:30.900 --> 00:24:35.519
But they don't, there's no attempt to make this wondrous or

548
00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:36.539
visually interesting.

549
00:24:36.599 --> 00:24:38.460
You know, it's ugly.

550
00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:40.200
Um, you know what else is interesting?

551
00:24:40.200 --> 00:24:43.920
This weird way where she starts talking about the voracious sexual

552
00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:45.299
appetite of Klingons.

553
00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:46.079
Yeah.

554
00:24:46.079 --> 00:24:48.660
It's just a big, isn't it?

555
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:49.319
It is.

556
00:24:49.319 --> 00:24:52.200
It's having a little Roddenbury moment.

557
00:24:52.259 --> 00:24:55.619
Bill has a great quote on memory alpha where I said there was

558
00:24:55.619 --> 00:24:57.779
nothing good on memory alpha and I've quoted it about 5 times

559
00:24:57.779 --> 00:24:58.200
already.

560
00:24:58.259 --> 00:24:58.559
Sorry.

561
00:24:58.619 --> 00:25:01.200
But he does have a good quote where he said that he basically was

562
00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:06.539
writing Sulan as a villain, yeah, as a sort of manga type, doing

563
00:25:06.539 --> 00:25:07.980
experiments on Balana.

564
00:25:08.039 --> 00:25:13.559
And they said, no, no, no. you know, give him dip, give him

565
00:25:13.559 --> 00:25:17.759
subtleties, make him somebody who's tragic rather than just bad.

566
00:25:17.819 --> 00:25:21.420
And he said, and apparently that advice stretches way back to

567
00:25:21.420 --> 00:25:25.380
Roddenbury was you shouldn't make these disfigured people, the

568
00:25:25.380 --> 00:25:26.099
villains, yeah.

569
00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:28.019
Just make them more interesting than that.

570
00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:30.960
And so he said the whole episode turned on a dime then and it

571
00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:33.359
became sort of a character tale for him.

572
00:25:33.420 --> 00:25:38.640
So the bit where, and we'll get there, where he puts the face of

573
00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:45.480
durst on top of his horrible graft in an attempt to woo B'lana

574
00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:45.900
song.

575
00:25:46.019 --> 00:25:48.119
Yeah, it's pathetic, isn't it?

576
00:25:48.180 --> 00:25:49.680
It's really good. pathetic.

577
00:25:49.740 --> 00:25:53.940
It's horrific and it's really quite, quite sad as well.

578
00:25:54.240 --> 00:25:59.759
So this is so surprising seeing Roxanne out of makeup and of

579
00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:01.079
course she's stunningly beautiful.

580
00:26:01.140 --> 00:26:04.440
I mean, she's still beautiful with that stupid forehead on.

581
00:26:04.500 --> 00:26:09.299
Um, but, and she plays it really quite differently.

582
00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:11.160
Like, she looks quite different.

583
00:26:11.220 --> 00:26:17.279
And, Remember how, when we did lineage, I said that there were

584
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:22.140
problems with the Balana character because she's kind of like, um

585
00:26:22.140 --> 00:26:23.759
hot-blooded Hispanic lady.

586
00:26:23.819 --> 00:26:24.660
Do you know what I mean?

587
00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:25.740
Hot-blooded Martina?

588
00:26:26.339 --> 00:26:27.599
Hispanic Latino women, no.

589
00:26:27.660 --> 00:26:28.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

590
00:26:28.619 --> 00:26:32.220
But it is a little bit of a cliche and they make her a Klingon to

591
00:26:32.220 --> 00:26:33.119
be hot-blooded.

592
00:26:33.180 --> 00:26:33.779
Do you know what I mean?

593
00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:36.180
Like, this is the better option?

594
00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:42.779
No, no, no, but, but, um, you know, lineage has her father is

595
00:26:42.779 --> 00:26:48.000
obviously, um, where the Torres name comes from, and, you know, her

596
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:56.039
mother's a Klingon, and, and here, like, I like this because she

597
00:26:56.039 --> 00:26:58.980
finds herself, and she's surprised.

598
00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:02.759
They did something to me that made me a coward and she doesn't

599
00:27:02.759 --> 00:27:04.380
know what it is.

600
00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:05.039
Do you know what I mean?

601
00:27:05.099 --> 00:27:09.359
They made me a coward and it doesn't even occur to her. that it's

602
00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:12.839
because she's not a Klingon anymore and that this is how humans

603
00:27:12.839 --> 00:27:17.640
feel all the time and that she benefits from being a Klingon

604
00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:21.180
because she's not a coward because she's strong and brave.

605
00:27:21.240 --> 00:27:24.960
And that's the story that she has to learn this episode, but she

606
00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:26.099
doesn't even realise it.

607
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:27.539
And I thought that that was good.

608
00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:31.740
This is the story that we will actually see and it is

609
00:27:31.740 --> 00:27:32.759
obviously...

610
00:27:32.819 --> 00:27:35.279
And in another parallel to lineage.

611
00:27:35.339 --> 00:27:39.000
Tom Paris jumps in with a comparison of his own.

612
00:27:39.059 --> 00:27:40.500
What an idiot.

613
00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:42.539
So this is this is himself...

614
00:27:42.539 --> 00:27:44.339
Oh, you used to make me get a shitty haircut.

615
00:27:44.400 --> 00:27:45.359
Haircut.

616
00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:49.500
And it's just like, yes, yeah, white people have problems too

617
00:27:49.500 --> 00:27:49.980
Tom.

618
00:27:50.039 --> 00:27:52.799
But this is this is different.

619
00:27:52.859 --> 00:27:53.640
Right.

620
00:27:53.700 --> 00:27:54.839
It's so bad.

621
00:27:54.900 --> 00:27:57.660
It's so absolutely...

622
00:27:57.660 --> 00:28:01.259
Trouble is, it's the fact that the writers didn't pick that up and

623
00:28:01.259 --> 00:28:06.839
go, you cannot compare like racism to kids bullying somebody

624
00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:09.240
because they've got a shitty...

625
00:28:09.299 --> 00:28:10.380
Yeah, do it.

626
00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:11.819
I know.

627
00:28:11.880 --> 00:28:17.579
And it just, it's not intended to make, uh, Tom seem like an

628
00:28:17.579 --> 00:28:19.500
asshole, but it does, but it does.

629
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:23.579
No, he does, because he does a similar comparison in lineage.

630
00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:27.119
And she says to him in that, no, that's not the same.

631
00:28:27.180 --> 00:28:29.640
And she needed to say it here as well.

632
00:28:29.700 --> 00:28:31.259
Yeah, yeah.

633
00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:35.099
It is an interesting thread, and it is one we come to time and

634
00:28:35.099 --> 00:28:35.460
again.

635
00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:38.640
When you come back to it and barge the dead, where she confronts

636
00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:41.640
her Klingon mother that shed a terrible relationship with, it

637
00:28:41.640 --> 00:28:46.079
comes back in extreme risk, where she suddenly posts the marquee

638
00:28:46.079 --> 00:28:46.859
being destroyed.

639
00:28:46.920 --> 00:28:50.940
She's suddenly doing these deaf divying extreme risks on the

640
00:28:50.940 --> 00:28:52.619
hollow suite and things like this.

641
00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:55.380
So it's something that's sort of weaved into her character when

642
00:28:55.380 --> 00:28:58.079
they remember she exists in Voyages Run.

643
00:28:58.140 --> 00:28:59.819
Um, yeah.

644
00:28:59.819 --> 00:29:02.880
But, you know, you compare it to something like, I don't know

645
00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:03.900
Kieran or Fave.

646
00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:07.740
It isn't dealt with anywhere near as much as much depth.

647
00:29:07.859 --> 00:29:11.519
I actually found that moment a little bit striking too. where Tom

648
00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:13.200
says you finally got what you wanted.

649
00:29:13.259 --> 00:29:14.220
You're just human.

650
00:29:14.279 --> 00:29:17.880
And she closed her eyes, closes her eyes, and a tear runs down her

651
00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:18.779
cheek.

652
00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:21.240
And I just thought, yeah, okay, I'll give you that.

653
00:29:21.299 --> 00:29:23.039
You know, that's that's something.

654
00:29:23.099 --> 00:29:27.839
But what conclusion can this episode possibly come to?

655
00:29:27.900 --> 00:29:30.480
We know they're going to come back together again.

656
00:29:30.539 --> 00:29:35.279
We know that they're going to have opposing like viewpoints and we

657
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:36.660
know they're going to end up working together.

658
00:29:37.079 --> 00:29:39.119
In terms of plotting.

659
00:29:39.180 --> 00:29:41.160
It's entirely predictable.

660
00:29:41.220 --> 00:29:41.640
Yeah.

661
00:29:41.700 --> 00:29:42.180
Yeah.

662
00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:48.240
Well, except that, um, she's killed, except that Klingon B'lana is

663
00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:54.240
is killed, um, like that, I think that is a surprise, but then we

664
00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:58.980
you know, she needs her DNA, you know, and so we, you know, they're

665
00:29:58.980 --> 00:30:02.940
not reconstituted by being sort of beamed together, the, you know

666
00:30:02.940 --> 00:30:06.779
ones killed, and then, and, and, and so here's the problem, I

667
00:30:06.779 --> 00:30:14.519
think, with the episode is that we, read B'lana, Human B'lana as

668
00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:21.359
the real B'lana, and Klingon B'lana is the part of herself that

669
00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:22.559
she feels weird about.

670
00:30:22.619 --> 00:30:27.779
And part of the reason for that is that we mostly hear, Human

671
00:30:27.779 --> 00:30:30.059
Balana talk about how she's feeling to the other human

672
00:30:30.059 --> 00:30:30.779
characters.

673
00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:33.900
And she's the one wearing the uniform.

674
00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:36.839
And she's the one that's alive at the end of the episode.

675
00:30:36.960 --> 00:30:38.339
And she's the one that's alive at the end.

676
00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:46.259
And so it's not as interesting as it could be because how does, how

677
00:30:46.259 --> 00:30:49.140
does this banana, the Klingon banana?

678
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:51.599
That is a much more interesting story to say.

679
00:30:51.660 --> 00:30:52.319
Benefit.

680
00:30:52.380 --> 00:30:52.859
Yes.

681
00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:56.099
What if we thought she was the real Balana?

682
00:30:56.160 --> 00:31:01.740
If we spent as much time making her have thoughts, like making her

683
00:31:01.740 --> 00:31:03.960
learn why she benefits from being human?

684
00:31:04.019 --> 00:31:05.579
Do you know what I mean?

685
00:31:05.640 --> 00:31:08.400
Like, oh, I think I think I think that would be more interesting

686
00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:09.299
to watch as well.

687
00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:13.500
The the Klingon realising that she needs the human rather than the

688
00:31:13.500 --> 00:31:15.059
human realising that she needs the Klingon.

689
00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:19.680
But I think they've accidentally fallen into that the same way

690
00:31:19.680 --> 00:31:22.980
that the Paris hair cut line happens.

691
00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:24.779
Do you know what I mean?

692
00:31:24.839 --> 00:31:27.180
Because and it's a problem with Voyager.

693
00:31:27.240 --> 00:31:29.039
We've got...

694
00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:30.539
I think it's TNG and Voyage.

695
00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:37.380
TG as well. the human 1st alien second, but it's also that white

696
00:31:37.380 --> 00:31:44.039
person and human are so closely identifying, I think, which is

697
00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:48.059
less of a problem on Deep Space 9 and much less of a problem on

698
00:31:48.059 --> 00:31:48.900
discovery.

699
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:54.779
But, you know, the human and white person are pretty similar

700
00:31:54.779 --> 00:31:55.380
here.

701
00:31:55.500 --> 00:31:57.359
And so this is her.

702
00:31:57.420 --> 00:32:00.839
She's a mixed marriage, but she's got a fiery temper.

703
00:32:00.900 --> 00:32:01.920
Do you know what I mean?

704
00:32:01.980 --> 00:32:06.180
And she looks at that part of herself and, and, you know, being

705
00:32:06.180 --> 00:32:09.240
brought up by that mother after her father leaves and all of that

706
00:32:09.240 --> 00:32:09.779
sort of stuff.

707
00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:10.559
Do you know what I mean?

708
00:32:10.619 --> 00:32:12.599
And so there's a bit of a problem, I think.

709
00:32:13.259 --> 00:32:16.619
Yeah, the emphasis, the emphasis is all wrong.

710
00:32:16.740 --> 00:32:19.259
I think that would have been really interesting to watch.

711
00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:25.319
Watching it all from the Klingons point of view and realising the

712
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:26.519
strengths of being a human.

713
00:32:26.579 --> 00:32:28.319
And that leads into Star Trek as well, doesn't it?

714
00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:29.819
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

715
00:32:29.880 --> 00:32:31.980
Look at his grotesque hands.

716
00:32:32.339 --> 00:32:35.460
Listen, it's out of touch, I think.

717
00:32:35.519 --> 00:32:36.420
You know what I mean?

718
00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:38.099
That's good it is.

719
00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:43.680
So the idea is the reason why they got these massive puffy heads

720
00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:47.279
is what they've grafted race after race on top.

721
00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:50.160
Try and keep this horrible...

722
00:32:50.220 --> 00:32:52.440
I don't think we ever learn too much about the disease itself

723
00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:54.480
where it came from.

724
00:32:54.599 --> 00:32:59.940
The phase comes from a word that means eating, like an ancient

725
00:32:59.940 --> 00:33:02.099
like the ancient Greek word for eat. one of them.

726
00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:08.819
And so, um, you know, you know, the X-Files episode War of the

727
00:33:08.819 --> 00:33:11.279
Copper Phages, which is more of the shit eaters.

728
00:33:11.400 --> 00:33:14.339
Yeah, classic. which is about cockroaches.

729
00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:15.960
Her name is Bambi.

730
00:33:16.980 --> 00:33:18.660
So good.

731
00:33:18.720 --> 00:33:19.859
One of the best.

732
00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:20.819
One of the best.

733
00:33:20.940 --> 00:33:22.380
Why are we watching nine?

734
00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:23.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

735
00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:25.920
Oh, dear.

736
00:33:25.980 --> 00:33:29.039
You keep cutting back to Scully washing her dog, don't you?

737
00:33:30.660 --> 00:33:33.180
See, that's a nice bit of light in there.

738
00:33:33.240 --> 00:33:33.720
Did you see that?

739
00:33:33.779 --> 00:33:36.299
Yeah, yeah, behind the guards.

740
00:33:36.359 --> 00:33:37.200
Yeah.

741
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:39.900
Well, they've got to do it because those sets are so dull.

742
00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:41.099
Yeah.

743
00:33:41.220 --> 00:33:43.319
They feel big though.

744
00:33:43.380 --> 00:33:44.819
They do feel big, those fairs.

745
00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:46.740
Yeah, they do a bit.

746
00:33:46.799 --> 00:33:52.200
I mean, are we, are we being made to be grateful that, that

747
00:33:52.200 --> 00:33:56.039
B'Elana's, uh, half Cleon, because she's kind of boring as a

748
00:33:56.039 --> 00:33:56.279
human?

749
00:33:56.880 --> 00:33:59.279
Okay, we're taking dust.

750
00:33:59.339 --> 00:34:03.240
I did, well, I kind of draw that conclusion myself that actually

751
00:34:03.240 --> 00:34:05.819
she's a bit weedy and dull as a human being.

752
00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:08.340
Well, I mean, she kind of has to be and she's overplaying it a

753
00:34:08.340 --> 00:34:09.059
little bit, I think.

754
00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:10.980
I think she's too scared.

755
00:34:11.280 --> 00:34:15.900
Like, I refuse to believe all of the chucks bar comes from the

756
00:34:15.900 --> 00:34:16.559
Klingon hole.

757
00:34:16.619 --> 00:34:18.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

758
00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:23.460
But I think that she's, you know, it's very basic, isn't it?

759
00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:26.039
I think part of the problem is that she has to be a lot different

760
00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:31.619
from our Balana, if the Klingon is a lot different from our...

761
00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:33.539
They need to get to the point, don't they?

762
00:34:33.599 --> 00:34:34.260
So yeah.

763
00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:34.619
Yeah.

764
00:34:34.619 --> 00:34:36.059
Yeah.

765
00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:40.260
And I don't think a lot of people watch 90s trek for subtlety, do

766
00:34:40.260 --> 00:34:40.500
they?

767
00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:41.099
They watch him.

768
00:34:41.159 --> 00:34:43.260
The, you know, the craziest friend.

769
00:34:43.860 --> 00:34:46.199
She's doing really well though, isn't she?

770
00:34:46.260 --> 00:34:49.079
Like, I love that where she can't say anything.

771
00:34:49.139 --> 00:34:53.280
Like, for once, we're not relying on fucking dialogue or her

772
00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:54.780
saying how she feels.

773
00:34:54.840 --> 00:34:57.719
We're just letting Roxanne do it, and of course she can do it.

774
00:34:57.780 --> 00:34:59.639
I think that's good.

775
00:34:59.699 --> 00:35:02.280
Like there's just little moments here and there, which I think are

776
00:35:02.280 --> 00:35:03.599
better than the rest of it.

777
00:35:03.659 --> 00:35:07.380
As Nathan just said, Durst has been dragged out of the cell.

778
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:11.219
I don't think in my wildest nightmares would I have dreamed what's

779
00:35:11.219 --> 00:35:12.059
coming up next.

780
00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:13.800
I just didn't think they go there.

781
00:35:14.099 --> 00:35:16.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

782
00:35:16.619 --> 00:35:17.340
Yeah.

783
00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:22.199
Cleverly, they come back to an incredibly dull scene on the Bridge

784
00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:25.559
of Voyager, whilst they talk a load of tech level, to almost lull

785
00:35:25.559 --> 00:35:27.539
us into this full sense of security.

786
00:35:27.539 --> 00:35:31.559
And then we cut back to B'Elana in a 2nd and he's in the

787
00:35:31.559 --> 00:35:35.340
background, sort of blurred out and he's like, a blanner, hello.

788
00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:39.239
I've come to see you and the music in this scene.

789
00:35:39.300 --> 00:35:40.800
They go full on horror music.

790
00:35:40.860 --> 00:35:44.340
It's like, There he comes.

791
00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:46.920
Look, tilted angle.

792
00:35:46.980 --> 00:35:49.380
It's really quite well done, isn't it?

793
00:35:49.500 --> 00:35:51.119
And obviously just what they've done.

794
00:35:51.179 --> 00:35:54.719
This is why they've got Durst and dumb Zulan to be played by the

795
00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:55.079
same person.

796
00:35:56.400 --> 00:36:01.079
And you could see where they've torn his face off or the edge of

797
00:36:01.079 --> 00:36:02.460
his face.

798
00:36:02.519 --> 00:36:05.460
And there's horrible, bloody, bloody bits everywhere.

799
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:06.599
I mean, it's nice.

800
00:36:06.659 --> 00:36:08.099
It doesn't fit properly.

801
00:36:08.099 --> 00:36:10.320
And it is his own face, most of it.

802
00:36:10.380 --> 00:36:11.159
Do you know what I mean?

803
00:36:11.219 --> 00:36:12.840
There's obviously a layer of latex there.

804
00:36:12.900 --> 00:36:16.679
The sad thing about this incredible moment is she shoved him

805
00:36:16.679 --> 00:36:19.679
against the wall and there you can see it is just a big rubber

806
00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:20.460
mask, you know?

807
00:36:20.519 --> 00:36:21.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

808
00:36:21.780 --> 00:36:22.619
But never mind.

809
00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:25.079
It's a good moment and we haven't said there's many good moments

810
00:36:25.079 --> 00:36:25.860
so far, sorry.

811
00:36:25.980 --> 00:36:27.300
No, that is pretty good.

812
00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:31.679
I always thought, you know, like with Hannibal Lecter, you know

813
00:36:31.679 --> 00:36:35.519
that he was very civilised and, you know, he was well educated and

814
00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:39.300
listened to classical music and and all of those sorts of things

815
00:36:39.300 --> 00:36:43.679
had very refined taste, but that he would kind of tear someone's

816
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:46.559
face off and wear it and stuff, and I thought, oh, that's really

817
00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:47.159
disgusting.

818
00:36:47.219 --> 00:36:48.300
That must be kind of awful.

819
00:36:48.360 --> 00:36:50.940
Like it's the thing he's talking about in this scene.

820
00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:54.420
It's a series of microfishes, says Harry Kim.

821
00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:57.420
Well, how big's the microfisher, says Janeway?

822
00:36:57.480 --> 00:37:00.239
Well, it's the size of one micron, said Harry.

823
00:37:00.300 --> 00:37:02.400
I'm like, what's the word micro?

824
00:37:02.460 --> 00:37:04.440
What are you talking about, people?

825
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:06.239
Yeah, yeah.

826
00:37:06.300 --> 00:37:09.179
See, this is super boring and I don't know why they think this is

827
00:37:09.179 --> 00:37:09.960
at all interesting.

828
00:37:10.019 --> 00:37:15.000
I mean, It means that they don't have to come up with a real

829
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:17.340
reason they can't get in and rescue them.

830
00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:21.420
And instead we just have these endless scenes where they just talk

831
00:37:21.420 --> 00:37:23.699
about why it's difficult to rescue them.

832
00:37:23.940 --> 00:37:27.960
It's a good ride. just come to the chase and have them on the

833
00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:31.199
planet, you know, where the drama is, rather than all this buildup

834
00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:31.860
to the drama.

835
00:37:31.980 --> 00:37:35.400
Or I have a real visible thing, but we can't do anything real and

836
00:37:35.400 --> 00:37:35.760
visible.

837
00:37:35.820 --> 00:37:38.340
We have to have microfishes because it doesn't cost any money to

838
00:37:38.340 --> 00:37:39.960
realise a microfisher.

839
00:37:40.019 --> 00:37:45.239
I think this exemplifies just how linear and tedious this all is.

840
00:37:45.300 --> 00:37:48.840
Oh, how on earth are we going to get, you know, onto the planet

841
00:37:48.840 --> 00:37:50.579
and get past the Vedians.

842
00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:52.800
Paul's Chakotay.

843
00:37:52.860 --> 00:37:55.019
I've got an idea, captain.

844
00:37:55.079 --> 00:37:56.039
Or...

845
00:37:56.039 --> 00:37:57.840
We'll put the media...

846
00:37:57.900 --> 00:37:59.940
He's done up because of it, dig it.

847
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:01.199
It's just so laboured.

848
00:38:01.260 --> 00:38:03.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

849
00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:06.420
I do like the moment where he says, oh, I've just had my face

850
00:38:06.420 --> 00:38:09.599
grafted on. you don't recognise me and that the guy goes, oh

851
00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:09.960
yeah.

852
00:38:10.019 --> 00:38:12.599
And then you kind of think, wow, actually, that must be a super

853
00:38:12.599 --> 00:38:13.679
weird kind of way to live.

854
00:38:13.739 --> 00:38:17.820
Also, when you see that makeup in the very dreary Voyager lighting

855
00:38:17.880 --> 00:38:19.559
It does sort of expose it.

856
00:38:19.619 --> 00:38:22.980
It's nowhere near as good as they make it look on the planet with

857
00:38:22.980 --> 00:38:24.360
a more dramatic lighting.

858
00:38:24.420 --> 00:38:25.980
Oh, God.

859
00:38:26.039 --> 00:38:28.019
Look, I swear all these tunnels.

860
00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:31.320
They use all, they always use the same sort of car and rocks each

861
00:38:31.320 --> 00:38:31.860
time.

862
00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:33.780
It's the same set.

863
00:38:33.840 --> 00:38:35.699
It's really just the same set.

864
00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:37.320
They move a few lights in and stuff.

865
00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:40.679
There's a lot of planets with sort of caves like this, isn't

866
00:38:40.679 --> 00:38:40.860
there?

867
00:38:40.920 --> 00:38:42.840
Well, they're cheap, aren't they?

868
00:38:42.900 --> 00:38:43.860
You don't have to do a sky.

869
00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:45.539
Ah, of course.

870
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:48.539
You've seen them try and do a sky in the studio, haven't you?

871
00:38:48.719 --> 00:38:50.579
Yeah, terrible.

872
00:38:50.639 --> 00:38:53.219
Oh, that's a taxi and cane good slur with the water.

873
00:38:53.280 --> 00:38:53.880
Yep.

874
00:38:53.940 --> 00:38:54.539
Of course.

875
00:38:55.619 --> 00:39:01.019
So now we're sort of logging out the episode until the 2 bananas

876
00:39:01.019 --> 00:39:01.800
me, aren't we?

877
00:39:01.860 --> 00:39:02.940
Yeah, essentially.

878
00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:05.400
So we'll hang out in the caves for 10 minutes.

879
00:39:06.599 --> 00:39:11.400
Yeah, so yeah, we just, we're just basically marking time until

880
00:39:11.400 --> 00:39:12.239
that happens.

881
00:39:12.300 --> 00:39:14.400
And then I think the episode kicks off.

882
00:39:14.460 --> 00:39:15.300
I don't know why.

883
00:39:16.619 --> 00:39:20.039
That's 5 minutes before the ending, unfortunately.

884
00:39:20.099 --> 00:39:20.880
Yeah, yeah.

885
00:39:20.940 --> 00:39:22.739
Why don't we get more of that?

886
00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:26.699
We, like, we've got 16 minutes left and the 2 of them haven't

887
00:39:26.699 --> 00:39:26.880
met.

888
00:39:26.940 --> 00:39:28.380
Is it too expensive?

889
00:39:28.500 --> 00:39:29.579
I don't think it is.

890
00:39:29.820 --> 00:39:35.880
Like, I know you say about Star Trek. the regulars sort of being

891
00:39:35.880 --> 00:39:39.840
shown as competent professionals and we're doing a bit of that in

892
00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:40.739
this episode, right?

893
00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:44.760
I think the problem is, is TNG set the formula for that of having

894
00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:47.519
these long scenes where you sit around the table and figure it all

895
00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:47.760
out.

896
00:39:47.820 --> 00:39:52.559
But, sort of come mid TNG, those characters were so well formed.

897
00:39:52.619 --> 00:39:55.800
They could do those scenes with a ton of character, you know?

898
00:39:55.860 --> 00:39:58.500
Yeah, we liked hanging around with them and someone would make

899
00:39:58.500 --> 00:40:01.800
some dreadful analogy to something else and, you know, and they'd

900
00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:03.960
have a joke and there'd be something going on there.

901
00:40:04.019 --> 00:40:08.880
This is just competent people being competent where their

902
00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:10.980
personalities haven't really been defined yet.

903
00:40:10.980 --> 00:40:14.460
But it's also kind of boring.

904
00:40:14.579 --> 00:40:16.500
Do you remember, do you remember Darmok?

905
00:40:16.559 --> 00:40:19.139
And I mean, you know, like you're comparing it to one of the best

906
00:40:19.139 --> 00:40:21.420
episodes of Star Trek ever?

907
00:40:21.480 --> 00:40:25.619
But that scene with data and Deanna, and I observed at the time

908
00:40:25.619 --> 00:40:29.880
that there's no character stuff going on there at all beyond them

909
00:40:29.880 --> 00:40:31.019
doing a job together.

910
00:40:31.079 --> 00:40:32.940
But they were trying to dissect language.

911
00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:34.260
And that was really interesting.

912
00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:36.960
Yeah, yeah. and it was fun and there was a joke in it.

913
00:40:37.019 --> 00:40:39.239
And we understood what was happening.

914
00:40:39.300 --> 00:40:40.860
Whereas...

915
00:40:40.860 --> 00:40:42.119
Because we understand language.

916
00:40:42.179 --> 00:40:43.980
We don't understand micron particles.

917
00:40:44.039 --> 00:40:47.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah. all of that's so boring.

918
00:40:47.219 --> 00:40:50.639
And it, like, that's the thing.

919
00:40:50.699 --> 00:40:56.159
You know, we had the corridors moving around and that's clearly

920
00:40:56.159 --> 00:40:59.820
the exciting B plot is the corridors move it around and moving

921
00:40:59.820 --> 00:41:03.960
around and making it hard for us to see hard for us to get in

922
00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:05.280
there and rescue them.

923
00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:06.179
That's super boring.

924
00:41:06.300 --> 00:41:09.059
But like, instead of talking about it.

925
00:41:09.119 --> 00:41:12.239
Go down and have sequences where the corridors are moving around

926
00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:14.639
and make it disorienting and interesting.

927
00:41:14.699 --> 00:41:16.199
Yeah, yeah.

928
00:41:16.199 --> 00:41:19.980
Like twisted. riveting stuff.

929
00:41:20.039 --> 00:41:22.440
Actually, you know, when we get around to Twisted, there's some

930
00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:24.719
there's some nice character stuff in there, you know.

931
00:41:24.780 --> 00:41:27.360
I think it's probably more enjoyable to watch than this.

932
00:41:28.079 --> 00:41:29.760
Yeah, yeah.

933
00:41:29.820 --> 00:41:34.440
Well, I guess, like, I think that we, look.

934
00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:37.860
The interesting thing is B'Elana, isn't it?

935
00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:40.679
That's the only interesting thing happening here, Belana and the

936
00:41:40.679 --> 00:41:41.940
Videan guy, right?

937
00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:46.440
I think I think the Vazian guy, I think what's absent is making

938
00:41:46.440 --> 00:41:48.300
the 2 B'alanas interesting.

939
00:41:48.360 --> 00:41:51.420
Well, we haven't even had the meat yet.

940
00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:52.019
Where are we?

941
00:41:52.079 --> 00:41:53.760
14 minutes to go.

942
00:41:53.820 --> 00:41:55.619
I just don't think there's enough there.

943
00:41:56.219 --> 00:42:01.860
It's the sort of thing that DS9 would have probably done really

944
00:42:01.860 --> 00:42:06.059
well, this leaning into the characters and telling us something

945
00:42:06.059 --> 00:42:06.719
about them.

946
00:42:06.780 --> 00:42:08.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

947
00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:08.940
Yeah.

948
00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:11.579
Having something interesting to say, but there's nothing there

949
00:42:11.579 --> 00:42:16.320
beyond her parrot, you know, her paragraph length character

950
00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:18.059
concept.

951
00:42:18.059 --> 00:42:19.679
Do you know what I mean?

952
00:42:19.739 --> 00:42:23.639
They've invented the family backstory for this, I guess.

953
00:42:23.699 --> 00:42:27.659
I wonder if we read that paragraph, if that's word for word, what

954
00:42:27.659 --> 00:42:29.219
she said earlier, what she says.

955
00:42:29.280 --> 00:42:30.480
Yeah, yeah.

956
00:42:30.539 --> 00:42:33.300
You know, we've got the Voyager Bible somewhere, I think.

957
00:42:33.420 --> 00:42:35.340
Oh, I've got it down to that one.

958
00:42:35.400 --> 00:42:38.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 475 pages of it.

959
00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:42.960
She's got weird hair, doesn't she?

960
00:42:43.019 --> 00:42:45.900
She's got her normal banana hair, which you wouldn't normally

961
00:42:45.900 --> 00:42:46.139
have.

962
00:42:46.199 --> 00:42:50.159
I don't know why I want this banana, this human banana to be

963
00:42:50.159 --> 00:42:51.179
totally kick-ass.

964
00:42:51.239 --> 00:42:55.019
I know they can't make her kickass, but oh, she's just so

965
00:42:55.019 --> 00:42:55.619
ineffective.

966
00:42:55.679 --> 00:42:57.780
No, so she's smart.

967
00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:00.360
And I think that what that's what they've done, isn't it?

968
00:43:00.420 --> 00:43:02.519
The brains are on the human side.

969
00:43:02.579 --> 00:43:04.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

970
00:43:04.440 --> 00:43:06.659
And all the engineering is on the Klingon side.

971
00:43:06.719 --> 00:43:07.920
Yeah, yeah. and violence.

972
00:43:07.980 --> 00:43:09.059
Well, maybe that's something on fire.

973
00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:10.619
That's too simple.

974
00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:12.599
No, no, no, no.

975
00:43:12.659 --> 00:43:14.940
But I mean, if it's going to be an examination of her character

976
00:43:14.940 --> 00:43:18.059
and you're just making the 2 parts of her character as obviously

977
00:43:18.059 --> 00:43:20.519
obvious as you can, that's what you're doing.

978
00:43:20.579 --> 00:43:21.420
Do you know what I mean?

979
00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:24.360
You're finding a science fiction way of kind of making those

980
00:43:24.360 --> 00:43:27.420
characters real and having them interact with one another.

981
00:43:27.480 --> 00:43:29.460
I'll give her her due, though.

982
00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:31.800
I think her body language with the 2 characters.

983
00:43:31.860 --> 00:43:34.559
Like visually there, I could see, I know I can see they're in

984
00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:34.920
different clothes.

985
00:43:35.039 --> 00:43:38.760
But I could tell because the Klingons cold in herself, sort of

986
00:43:38.760 --> 00:43:43.199
loud and proud, and Balanas, the human, is sort of curled into

987
00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:43.619
herself.

988
00:43:43.679 --> 00:43:45.360
She's doing that really, really well.

989
00:43:45.719 --> 00:43:47.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

990
00:43:47.579 --> 00:43:49.019
I think these scenes are not bad.

991
00:43:49.079 --> 00:43:50.639
I think they seem to not bad.

992
00:43:50.699 --> 00:43:55.920
But, but, I do think that because of her performance at the

993
00:43:55.920 --> 00:43:58.260
beginning of the episode and because she's wearing so much makeup

994
00:43:58.260 --> 00:44:01.199
she's hard to empathise with and because we're never invited to

995
00:44:01.199 --> 00:44:02.820
worry about what she's thinking.

996
00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:06.480
That bit of direction summed up, not extract perfectly.

997
00:44:06.539 --> 00:44:11.099
The camera was completely stationary, and we waited for 10 minutes

998
00:44:11.219 --> 00:44:16.739
10 seconds while she walked the entire length of the 2nd. close.

999
00:44:16.739 --> 00:44:17.699
Yeah.

1000
00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:18.539
Oh, bless.

1001
00:44:19.380 --> 00:44:22.199
Oh, no, now we're back in the caves again.

1002
00:44:22.260 --> 00:44:23.579
Yes, exactly.

1003
00:44:23.639 --> 00:44:25.139
They're cheap.

1004
00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:28.380
Did you say that they were on the planet Avery before?

1005
00:44:28.380 --> 00:44:31.199
It made me wonder whether the DS9 whether the Defiant had just

1006
00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:33.000
been to visit the planet Kate.

1007
00:44:34.800 --> 00:44:38.340
You know what's really funny about memory alpha, right?

1008
00:44:38.400 --> 00:44:40.380
Is that all the creatives?

1009
00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:42.059
So not the actors, but the writers.

1010
00:44:42.119 --> 00:44:45.300
They're all, they're all talking about this episode and

1011
00:44:45.300 --> 00:44:49.860
everybody's going to extreme lengths to explain why the premise of

1012
00:44:49.860 --> 00:44:50.820
this isn't hokey.

1013
00:44:50.880 --> 00:44:52.619
They keep using the word hokey.

1014
00:44:52.679 --> 00:44:55.139
It could have been hokier, but...

1015
00:44:55.199 --> 00:44:56.219
No, no, it's hokey as hell.

1016
00:44:56.280 --> 00:44:59.099
I love, I did love her line, her line.

1017
00:44:59.159 --> 00:45:01.800
I'm sorry, I couldn't replicate you as souffle.

1018
00:45:01.860 --> 00:45:03.480
I thought was pretty great.

1019
00:45:03.539 --> 00:45:04.860
Here, have this rat.

1020
00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:07.260
And she does eat the rat, to be fair.

1021
00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:07.980
Do you know what I mean?

1022
00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:11.099
But she still doesn't know why she's so weak.

1023
00:45:11.159 --> 00:45:12.059
Okay?

1024
00:45:12.119 --> 00:45:15.179
She still doesn't know why she's so weak. she hasn't twigged what

1025
00:45:15.179 --> 00:45:16.199
sort of episode this is.

1026
00:45:19.980 --> 00:45:22.619
Yeah, so here we go.

1027
00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:26.219
So, so, I was waiting for something here.

1028
00:45:26.280 --> 00:45:30.179
I was waiting for something big for them to learn about each other

1029
00:45:30.179 --> 00:45:31.440
beyond we need each other.

1030
00:45:31.500 --> 00:45:36.179
Yeah, it's the most obvious thing possible and it's exactly where

1031
00:45:36.179 --> 00:45:37.980
it's always going to go.

1032
00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:39.420
And it...

1033
00:45:39.420 --> 00:45:45.360
And I do think that focussing on the human balana is a mistake

1034
00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:47.039
because that's less interesting.

1035
00:45:47.940 --> 00:45:51.659
That's the way you respond to every situation, is it?

1036
00:45:51.719 --> 00:45:53.519
This is why I'm always getting in trouble.

1037
00:45:53.579 --> 00:45:54.599
Yeah, yeah.

1038
00:45:54.659 --> 00:45:56.099
So she's angry at me.

1039
00:45:56.159 --> 00:46:00.360
I'm all human and no Klingon, and I respond in ways like that, you

1040
00:46:00.360 --> 00:46:00.599
know?

1041
00:46:01.619 --> 00:46:08.219
Yeah, so what does what does Klingon Balana get from all this?

1042
00:46:08.340 --> 00:46:11.340
Well, we're never going to learn. she learn anything?

1043
00:46:11.400 --> 00:46:12.900
No, no, no.

1044
00:46:12.960 --> 00:46:14.039
We not going to think that.

1045
00:46:14.099 --> 00:46:17.039
And you know, like, well, we were doing Treasure and Faith in the

1046
00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:17.400
Great River.

1047
00:46:17.460 --> 00:46:20.280
We were talking about just how many scenes we were seeing from the

1048
00:46:20.280 --> 00:46:21.480
other side's point of view.

1049
00:46:21.539 --> 00:46:24.239
We're just not doing that here, are we?

1050
00:46:24.300 --> 00:46:24.960
Oh, look at that.

1051
00:46:25.019 --> 00:46:28.199
Did you say, do you realise that we're both fighting with

1052
00:46:28.199 --> 00:46:28.800
ourselves?

1053
00:46:28.860 --> 00:46:30.780
Just go, wow.

1054
00:46:30.840 --> 00:46:33.000
B'lana must have watched TV before.

1055
00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:40.800
The other one should have said, that's literally the situation.

1056
00:46:40.860 --> 00:46:42.900
Yes, well done for pointing that out.

1057
00:46:42.960 --> 00:46:43.619
That's right.

1058
00:46:43.679 --> 00:46:44.820
She said, that's ridiculous.

1059
00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:46.440
That's not what's happening.

1060
00:46:46.739 --> 00:46:50.219
They should have gone the whole way and just said, oh, you know

1061
00:46:50.219 --> 00:46:53.400
inevitably, we were always going to end up here or something like

1062
00:46:53.400 --> 00:46:53.639
that.

1063
00:46:54.179 --> 00:46:55.380
Yeah, yeah.

1064
00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:56.039
Yeah.

1065
00:46:56.099 --> 00:46:58.619
And again, you know, like...

1066
00:46:58.619 --> 00:47:04.619
Like, Belana's right that she's going to get herself killed, that

1067
00:47:04.619 --> 00:47:11.699
the one thing that Belana gives the Klingon Belana is some control

1068
00:47:11.699 --> 00:47:12.960
over her temper.

1069
00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:16.920
And when the Klingon Belana, I mean, doesn't what does she do?

1070
00:47:16.980 --> 00:47:20.519
She throws herself in front of like in front of someone's weapon

1071
00:47:20.519 --> 00:47:23.820
to save the other B'alana, doesn't she save the other B'alana's

1072
00:47:23.820 --> 00:47:24.000
life?

1073
00:47:24.059 --> 00:47:28.619
And the other banana says, I'm happy to die now because you suck

1074
00:47:28.619 --> 00:47:32.519
you know, it was an honourable death and you were behaving

1075
00:47:32.519 --> 00:47:33.179
bravely.

1076
00:47:33.239 --> 00:47:35.639
I don't think she was behaving bravely, actually, if you watch the

1077
00:47:35.639 --> 00:47:35.820
scene.

1078
00:47:36.780 --> 00:47:40.079
Tell yourself whatever you need to when you're dying, you know?

1079
00:47:40.139 --> 00:47:41.280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1080
00:47:41.340 --> 00:47:42.780
I think she was pressing the buttons.

1081
00:47:47.460 --> 00:47:50.880
At this point, I was just waiting for the episode to end.

1082
00:47:50.940 --> 00:47:51.780
I've got to be honest.

1083
00:47:51.960 --> 00:47:55.980
I was like, okay, come on guys, merge back together now.

1084
00:47:56.039 --> 00:48:00.179
Yeah, it could have, see, look, there we go.

1085
00:48:00.239 --> 00:48:02.639
Again, it's so obvious.

1086
00:48:02.699 --> 00:48:03.420
Yes.

1087
00:48:03.480 --> 00:48:07.440
Yes, it's that's where we were always going to go.

1088
00:48:08.219 --> 00:48:10.920
It is, it's rough, isn't it?

1089
00:48:12.119 --> 00:48:17.280
Well, I think you and me, we get more frustrated when something

1090
00:48:17.280 --> 00:48:19.260
could have been so much more.

1091
00:48:19.320 --> 00:48:22.199
We've had a lot of episodes where they're terrible and they just

1092
00:48:22.199 --> 00:48:23.400
couldn't have been salvaged.

1093
00:48:23.460 --> 00:48:25.739
But actually, I think they could have done something with this.

1094
00:48:26.039 --> 00:48:27.840
Yeah, I know.

1095
00:48:27.900 --> 00:48:31.320
I think you've got B'lana and B'lana are both really interesting

1096
00:48:31.320 --> 00:48:33.840
but it's just so obvious.

1097
00:48:33.900 --> 00:48:38.940
It's, it's like, you know, like I made that crack about B'Elana

1098
00:48:38.940 --> 00:48:42.480
having watched TV before, but it's like it's TV for people who

1099
00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:45.659
don't watch television or don't understand it.

1100
00:48:45.719 --> 00:48:48.840
You know, it's so kind of basic.

1101
00:48:48.900 --> 00:48:53.519
Now this bit here where Chakotay comes in and is hideous for DM

1102
00:48:53.519 --> 00:48:55.920
makeup and says, oh, Tom Paris is me.

1103
00:48:55.980 --> 00:48:58.980
And you can see the sort of simbering tension between them for a

1104
00:48:58.980 --> 00:48:59.219
2nd.

1105
00:48:59.280 --> 00:49:03.360
I'm like, yeah, this is the season one of Voyager, I like. they

1106
00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:05.039
were doing something a bit more interesting than this.

1107
00:49:05.099 --> 00:49:06.059
Yeah.

1108
00:49:06.119 --> 00:49:08.460
This could be a TNG episode, couldn't it?

1109
00:49:09.119 --> 00:49:14.280
Uh, well, I mean, kind of, but like I said, the 2nd chances as the

1110
00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:18.599
nearest high concept episode, it also, the other thing it doesn't

1111
00:49:18.599 --> 00:49:22.679
do is kill off the other Rai car, which is the obvious thing to do

1112
00:49:22.679 --> 00:49:24.360
to get to the status quo.

1113
00:49:24.539 --> 00:49:28.380
And so we have a spare Riker around for Deep Space 9 to borrow

1114
00:49:28.380 --> 00:49:28.739
later.

1115
00:49:28.800 --> 00:49:30.420
Oh, well, fabulous.

1116
00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:33.900
Why do they, you know, he's saying there.

1117
00:49:33.960 --> 00:49:36.539
Look, look, you don't recognise me because my face has just been

1118
00:49:36.539 --> 00:49:40.199
grafted, but they wouldn't all have that amount of graphs.

1119
00:49:40.260 --> 00:49:41.579
Like all their heads are the same size.

1120
00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:43.980
Yeah, yeah.

1121
00:49:43.980 --> 00:49:47.880
Oh, man, you'd have some that would...

1122
00:49:47.940 --> 00:49:48.300
Exactly.

1123
00:49:49.019 --> 00:49:52.800
They do look different from each other, and one of the guards is

1124
00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:55.860
uglier looking than the other one, like one of them has sort of

1125
00:49:55.860 --> 00:49:57.539
pointy hair. marginally.

1126
00:49:57.599 --> 00:49:59.760
Yeah, yeah, Eddie is very marginal.

1127
00:49:59.820 --> 00:50:01.679
They look roughly the same.

1128
00:50:01.739 --> 00:50:05.639
I've got to say, you know, the green screen here, having the 2 of

1129
00:50:05.639 --> 00:50:07.679
them in the same shop. actually pretty good.

1130
00:50:07.739 --> 00:50:11.159
It's better, in fact, than when we had the 2 Jways in the same

1131
00:50:11.159 --> 00:50:12.179
shot in endgame.

1132
00:50:12.840 --> 00:50:15.000
Proving that voyage.

1133
00:50:15.059 --> 00:50:17.039
I forgot how to do special effects as time went on.

1134
00:50:17.099 --> 00:50:21.840
Well, in fact, there is one shot that I think is spectacularly

1135
00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:23.699
good with the 2 of them.

1136
00:50:23.820 --> 00:50:27.179
No, no, it's not where she's carrying her, is it?

1137
00:50:27.239 --> 00:50:29.940
No, no, no, no, because that was just another action.

1138
00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:33.360
Look, we're doing these shooting scenes where one person shoots

1139
00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:36.000
then one person hires behind a console and then one person

1140
00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:36.539
shoots.

1141
00:50:36.599 --> 00:50:39.780
Ah, yeah, but I mean, there's some stakes here because this is

1142
00:50:39.780 --> 00:50:45.900
salon, you know, like, and Culan is a terrible person, but he's

1143
00:50:45.900 --> 00:50:49.019
trying to do his best to save people.

1144
00:50:49.079 --> 00:50:51.360
His makeup is really ghastly, isn't it?

1145
00:50:51.420 --> 00:50:51.900
I love her.

1146
00:50:52.019 --> 00:50:53.579
Yeah, yeah, it's good, isn't it?

1147
00:50:53.639 --> 00:50:57.659
But I think that's a fault in the last episode is that after she's

1148
00:50:57.659 --> 00:51:00.960
frozen against the wall, we don't see him again. about 10 minutes

1149
00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:04.800
and he's by far the most engaging character in this.

1150
00:51:04.860 --> 00:51:06.599
Yeah, yeah.

1151
00:51:06.659 --> 00:51:09.900
It's sort of, it's like, no, we've got to have time for the 2

1152
00:51:09.900 --> 00:51:13.500
bananas to have a chat now, but as we've already covered, that's

1153
00:51:13.500 --> 00:51:15.360
very dull. super boring.

1154
00:51:15.420 --> 00:51:17.699
And it shouldn't be. absolutely shouldn't be.

1155
00:51:18.480 --> 00:51:22.920
I'd actually rather, I'm sure it won't be that interesting, but I

1156
00:51:22.920 --> 00:51:25.860
would rather have found out sort of what's going on behind the

1157
00:51:25.860 --> 00:51:27.059
scenes with the videos.

1158
00:51:27.119 --> 00:51:28.559
There we go.

1159
00:51:28.619 --> 00:51:31.260
Oh, he does get a fabulous close-up, though.

1160
00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:33.239
After a shoot, yeah.

1161
00:51:33.300 --> 00:51:40.260
Watch out the camera sort of lazily goes in on him. handheld

1162
00:51:40.260 --> 00:51:41.460
camera. terrible thing.

1163
00:51:41.519 --> 00:51:46.019
But it's also, it's also he's kind of doomed his people because

1164
00:51:46.019 --> 00:51:50.699
she showed some immunity to the phase and he killed her.

1165
00:51:50.760 --> 00:51:53.159
Imagine he killed that face, then she beamed out.

1166
00:51:53.219 --> 00:51:55.380
He grafted another one afterwards to get rid of it.

1167
00:51:55.440 --> 00:51:58.619
Every time he looked in the mirror, he could look at what could

1168
00:51:58.619 --> 00:52:00.840
have been with Alana. twat he'd been.

1169
00:52:00.900 --> 00:52:02.099
Yeah, that's right.

1170
00:52:02.159 --> 00:52:06.000
No, this, I think there's a scene here where we see both of their

1171
00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:06.480
faces.

1172
00:52:06.539 --> 00:52:07.559
They're holding hands.

1173
00:52:07.619 --> 00:52:09.360
Is it coming or has it happened already?

1174
00:52:09.420 --> 00:52:11.400
They're holding hands.

1175
00:52:11.460 --> 00:52:14.760
She's lying on the transporter pad, you know, like I think that's

1176
00:52:14.760 --> 00:52:15.300
really well done.

1177
00:52:15.840 --> 00:52:18.239
And then she lets her hand go.

1178
00:52:18.300 --> 00:52:19.260
Yeah, it was just earlier.

1179
00:52:19.320 --> 00:52:21.360
So I think that's the best special effect.

1180
00:52:21.420 --> 00:52:25.199
I mean, they do it in 2nd chances where the 2 Rikers are standing

1181
00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:28.679
on opposite sides of the screen and then one walks off in front of

1182
00:52:28.679 --> 00:52:31.920
the other one and you just sort of think, ah, that's smooth.

1183
00:52:32.340 --> 00:52:34.800
These doctors, they're incredible.

1184
00:52:34.860 --> 00:52:37.920
I'll reintegrate the DNA into your genetic material.

1185
00:52:37.980 --> 00:52:38.639
Oh, they can do anything.

1186
00:52:38.699 --> 00:52:39.239
Yeah.

1187
00:52:39.300 --> 00:52:41.820
Yeah, with their with their usual skill.

1188
00:52:41.880 --> 00:52:45.840
So we know really at the beginning where we have this shock visual

1189
00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:47.039
of her as a Klingon.

1190
00:52:47.099 --> 00:52:48.780
Well, by the end of the episode everything's going to be all

1191
00:52:48.780 --> 00:52:48.960
right.

1192
00:52:49.019 --> 00:52:50.579
The doctor can do anything.

1193
00:52:51.119 --> 00:52:57.960
Yeah, but remember, we know that because, I mean, you know, doesn't

1194
00:52:57.960 --> 00:53:02.099
Kirk get surgically altered to look like a Romulan or doesn't he

1195
00:53:02.099 --> 00:53:04.500
just put the pointy ears on or something or a Vulcan or something

1196
00:53:04.500 --> 00:53:05.039
at some point?

1197
00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:09.840
I'm surprised anyone trusts anybody because, like, literally

1198
00:53:09.840 --> 00:53:12.179
anyone on that crew could be another species and we'd never know

1199
00:53:12.179 --> 00:53:12.539
about it.

1200
00:53:12.599 --> 00:53:13.199
That's right.

1201
00:53:13.260 --> 00:53:14.039
Cesca.

1202
00:53:14.099 --> 00:53:15.719
And of course, of course.

1203
00:53:15.780 --> 00:53:22.619
Once, I mean, once we've seen Deanna do it in face of the enemy.

1204
00:53:22.679 --> 00:53:25.559
Oh, compare this to state of flux.

1205
00:53:25.679 --> 00:53:28.800
Which was just so good, wasn't it?

1206
00:53:28.860 --> 00:53:30.900
It was so interesting. and original.

1207
00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:32.699
You know, it was doing interesting things.

1208
00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:37.500
Well, like this scene here is really for people who don't

1209
00:53:37.500 --> 00:53:38.579
understand television.

1210
00:53:38.639 --> 00:53:39.840
Do you know what I mean?

1211
00:53:39.900 --> 00:53:45.539
Like it is like, let me just explain how, you know, all of what's

1212
00:53:45.539 --> 00:53:48.420
been going on for the past 45 minutes in case you've been

1213
00:53:48.420 --> 00:53:52.679
unconscious or reading it more. a distinct possibility.

1214
00:53:52.800 --> 00:53:54.360
Yeah that's right.

1215
00:53:54.840 --> 00:53:58.980
And look, Roxanne's doing some proper acting, which is kind of

1216
00:53:58.980 --> 00:53:59.219
nice.

1217
00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:00.300
Yeah.

1218
00:54:00.300 --> 00:54:03.179
But it is spelling things out to a five-year-old.

1219
00:54:03.179 --> 00:54:05.340
I came to admire so many things about her.

1220
00:54:05.400 --> 00:54:07.860
You only knew her for 5 fucking minutes.

1221
00:54:07.920 --> 00:54:11.820
Yeah, but, you know, she did throw herself in front of the phase.

1222
00:54:11.820 --> 00:54:13.980
And she cooked you a rat, you know?

1223
00:54:14.039 --> 00:54:15.780
yeah that's right.

1224
00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:18.360
I admired cooking so much.

1225
00:54:21.179 --> 00:54:25.380
Oh, yeah, I'll have to spend the rest of my life fighting with

1226
00:54:25.380 --> 00:54:25.619
her.

1227
00:54:25.739 --> 00:54:28.199
Now, do you remember the conclusion we drew at the end of

1228
00:54:28.199 --> 00:54:29.340
treachery faith in the Great River?

1229
00:54:29.400 --> 00:54:31.739
Whoever's going to win, I'm going to lose.

1230
00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:34.800
You know, that's what the episode was about and we came to a

1231
00:54:34.800 --> 00:54:39.420
tragic conclusion that's going to go on and mean something.

1232
00:54:39.480 --> 00:54:40.559
What the fuck does this mean?

1233
00:54:40.619 --> 00:54:42.539
No, no, that's right.

1234
00:54:42.599 --> 00:54:46.320
She can be exactly the same next episode and we need never worry

1235
00:54:46.320 --> 00:54:47.400
about this having happened.

1236
00:54:47.460 --> 00:54:50.519
Well, she's actually saying is I'm exactly the same as where I was

1237
00:54:50.519 --> 00:54:51.599
at the beginning of this episode.

1238
00:54:51.659 --> 00:54:52.860
Yes, yeah, that's right.

1239
00:54:52.920 --> 00:54:55.440
So next episode, we need never speak of this again.

1240
00:54:55.500 --> 00:54:57.719
Essentially, is the idea.

1241
00:54:57.780 --> 00:54:58.980
Although she is acting.

1242
00:54:59.039 --> 00:55:00.420
Look at her touching her forehead there.

1243
00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:01.440
Yeah.

1244
00:55:01.500 --> 00:55:05.400
Nathan, I do remember this being a lot better than it actually now

1245
00:55:05.400 --> 00:55:06.059
to be.

1246
00:55:06.059 --> 00:55:07.500
Yeah, yeah.

1247
00:55:07.559 --> 00:55:11.280
I mean, the high concept thing is really fun and it is just a

1248
00:55:11.280 --> 00:55:13.320
typical Star Trek thing to do.

1249
00:55:13.380 --> 00:55:16.920
And it like, it's not completely worthless, but it was sort of

1250
00:55:16.920 --> 00:55:17.880
boring, I think.

1251
00:55:17.940 --> 00:55:22.739
I think because the B plot on Voyager is almost entirely

1252
00:55:22.739 --> 00:55:23.340
worthless.

1253
00:55:24.059 --> 00:55:25.260
In fact, let's say worthless.

1254
00:55:25.980 --> 00:55:30.900
And because we're not learning enough about Balala Torres to make

1255
00:55:30.900 --> 00:55:32.400
the A-plot worthwhile.

1256
00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:35.340
All you've really got is what I said in the beginning of this

1257
00:55:35.340 --> 00:55:35.820
episode.

1258
00:55:35.880 --> 00:55:39.300
One terrific shot moment that you never really will forget.

1259
00:55:39.360 --> 00:55:42.719
And that's the thing I always remember when people say faces, is

1260
00:55:42.719 --> 00:55:44.219
the horrible X moment.

1261
00:55:44.280 --> 00:55:46.920
But beyond that, it's...

1262
00:55:46.920 --> 00:55:51.360
Yeah, it's, and it's not, it's not the weakest point of season one

1263
00:55:51.360 --> 00:55:53.519
but it's definitely down there, I think.

1264
00:55:53.579 --> 00:55:54.780
Yeah, yeah.

1265
00:55:54.840 --> 00:55:56.820
Yeah, it is disappointing, isn't it?

1266
00:55:56.880 --> 00:56:02.099
Particularly when you see it done. has already been done better by

1267
00:56:02.099 --> 00:56:02.519
this point.

1268
00:56:02.699 --> 00:56:07.500
What happens now is we follow this up with state of flux and

1269
00:56:07.500 --> 00:56:11.699
either needle and stuff like this. really interesting stuff, but

1270
00:56:11.699 --> 00:56:17.159
you've also got cathexis and all that dreadful, uh, the doctor on

1271
00:56:17.159 --> 00:56:19.980
the holodeck, you know, uh, what's that episode called?

1272
00:56:20.039 --> 00:56:21.659
You know, where he's in the car.

1273
00:56:21.719 --> 00:56:22.739
All heroes and demons.

1274
00:56:22.860 --> 00:56:26.940
Yeah, and it's all the, so you've got sort of Voyager forging its

1275
00:56:26.940 --> 00:56:33.539
own innovative path and knock off tea itchy episodes, rubbing

1276
00:56:33.539 --> 00:56:33.900
shoulders.

1277
00:56:33.960 --> 00:56:36.179
No, but don't worry, we get to a point where they're all knockoff

1278
00:56:36.179 --> 00:56:37.079
TNG episodes.

1279
00:56:37.139 --> 00:56:39.179
The originality don't last too long.

1280
00:56:39.239 --> 00:56:40.860
But there's a weird mix.

1281
00:56:41.039 --> 00:56:43.860
Yeah, it's it is odd, isn't it?

1282
00:56:43.920 --> 00:56:48.840
Because I think, I think we've said this before, that because

1283
00:56:48.840 --> 00:56:54.840
Voyager has to be different to TNG, it has to have more of a

1284
00:56:54.840 --> 00:56:58.559
premise than TNG does, like TNG virtually has no premise.

1285
00:56:58.619 --> 00:57:03.300
We're in a spaceship exploring strange new worlds, blah, blah, blah

1286
00:57:03.300 --> 00:57:03.840
blah, blah.

1287
00:57:03.900 --> 00:57:07.739
And so they've given this more of a premise, but they also just

1288
00:57:07.739 --> 00:57:09.239
want to do Star Trek.

1289
00:57:09.300 --> 00:57:13.380
So, I guess, you know, those 2 things will spend the rest of their

1290
00:57:13.380 --> 00:57:18.239
lives fighting one another, much like Balana and Klingon Belong.

1291
00:57:18.300 --> 00:57:19.019
Well done.

1292
00:57:19.079 --> 00:57:22.739
It's maybe rethink, you know, the plumic soup scene at the

1293
00:57:22.739 --> 00:57:25.860
beginning of the episode, which now actually might have been the

1294
00:57:25.860 --> 00:57:27.719
high point on the entire episode.

1295
00:57:27.719 --> 00:57:28.559
It wasn't too bad.

1296
00:57:28.619 --> 00:57:32.039
It was certainly the best scene to take place on board the ship.

1297
00:57:32.099 --> 00:57:33.179
Let's just say that.

1298
00:57:33.239 --> 00:57:35.519
And there's about 25 of those.

1299
00:57:44.579 --> 00:57:49.619
All right, it's the end of the episode, and we're about to find

1300
00:57:49.619 --> 00:57:52.199
out what it is we're going to be watching next.

1301
00:57:52.260 --> 00:57:57.900
It's your turn on the randomiser, Joe. So what series have you

1302
00:57:57.900 --> 00:57:58.199
chosen?

1303
00:57:58.320 --> 00:58:02.039
Well, with a dramatic turn somewhere completely different.

1304
00:58:02.099 --> 00:58:05.760
I've decided to stay at 90's track and put all 4 series in.

1305
00:58:05.880 --> 00:58:07.440
Oh, okay, excellent.

1306
00:58:07.559 --> 00:58:10.320
Simply because we just have so many of these bloody things to

1307
00:58:10.320 --> 00:58:10.739
get.

1308
00:58:11.760 --> 00:58:14.760
And I'm sure you'll take us somewhere else next week.

1309
00:58:14.820 --> 00:58:18.780
But there's something comfy blanket about watching I'm talking

1310
00:58:18.780 --> 00:58:19.800
about 90's trek.

1311
00:58:19.860 --> 00:58:23.099
So, okay, we go.

1312
00:58:23.880 --> 00:58:26.280
Your, oh, no.

1313
00:58:26.340 --> 00:58:30.360
Your random Star Trek Deek Space 9 episode is season six, episode

1314
00:58:30.360 --> 00:58:32.579
21, the reckoning.

1315
00:58:32.639 --> 00:58:34.440
Do you remember one?

1316
00:58:34.500 --> 00:58:35.579
Oh, I don't even know what that is.

1317
00:58:35.639 --> 00:58:40.019
The 1st one with a power raves where you get Kira and Jake on the

1318
00:58:40.019 --> 00:58:43.500
promenade with a pile reef inside each of them, having a

1319
00:58:43.500 --> 00:58:45.900
undramatic battle.

1320
00:58:47.099 --> 00:58:49.860
Although it does have a lot of Kai win in it.

1321
00:58:49.920 --> 00:58:51.539
But no, I'll press it again.

1322
00:58:51.599 --> 00:58:52.320
I'm not saying it, yeah.

1323
00:58:52.380 --> 00:58:52.619
Okay.

1324
00:58:52.619 --> 00:58:54.420
Yeah, no.

1325
00:58:54.599 --> 00:58:56.280
Even worse.

1326
00:58:56.340 --> 00:59:00.539
Your random Star Trek, the next generation episode is season two

1327
00:59:00.539 --> 00:59:01.380
episode 22.

1328
00:59:01.619 --> 00:59:03.179
Shades of Grey.

1329
00:59:03.239 --> 00:59:04.679
Oh wow.

1330
00:59:05.219 --> 00:59:09.960
That's probably the worst one in the entire franchise.

1331
00:59:10.079 --> 00:59:13.320
Is there a worse episode than Shades of Grey?

1332
00:59:13.380 --> 00:59:16.139
Just the whole not giving a shit?

1333
00:59:16.199 --> 00:59:20.880
Like not, like, something that they really should have said.

1334
00:59:20.940 --> 00:59:26.099
I know we're supposed to put something out this week, but here's

1335
00:59:26.099 --> 00:59:26.820
what we've come up with.

1336
00:59:26.940 --> 00:59:31.260
And to write out Dr. Pulaski in such a lame episode as well.

1337
00:59:31.320 --> 00:59:34.260
Oh, well, I don't think they even know she's not coming back by

1338
00:59:34.260 --> 00:59:35.099
that point.

1339
00:59:35.159 --> 00:59:35.519
Who cares?

1340
00:59:35.579 --> 00:59:36.059
Oh, possibly.

1341
00:59:36.059 --> 00:59:37.199
Holy shit.

1342
00:59:37.260 --> 00:59:39.059
Barely an episode of...

1343
00:59:39.059 --> 00:59:42.179
Barely a decision they ever made, bringing back...

1344
00:59:42.239 --> 00:59:44.159
Oh no.

1345
00:59:44.159 --> 00:59:45.960
Sorry.

1346
00:59:46.139 --> 00:59:47.579
Okay.

1347
00:59:47.639 --> 00:59:50.639
Oh my god, it's this came up last time.

1348
00:59:50.760 --> 00:59:54.719
Your random Star Trek Deep Space 9 episode is season one, episode

1349
00:59:54.719 --> 00:59:55.739
19 duet.

1350
00:59:55.800 --> 00:59:58.139
What is it about the randomiser me and you?

1351
00:59:58.139 --> 00:59:58.800
the time before.

1352
00:59:58.860 --> 00:59:59.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1353
00:59:59.820 --> 01:00:00.420
We're not doing it.

1354
01:00:00.480 --> 01:00:01.500
Sorry.

1355
01:00:01.500 --> 01:00:07.199
Okay, your random Star Trek Nest generation episode is season

1356
01:00:07.199 --> 01:00:07.739
one.

1357
01:00:07.980 --> 01:00:11.639
Episode 16, too short a season.

1358
01:00:11.699 --> 01:00:19.019
It's really terrible. what's that So it's the admiral who's ageing

1359
01:00:19.019 --> 01:00:19.559
backwards.

1360
01:00:19.679 --> 01:00:22.139
It's got terrible latex mask, isn't it?

1361
01:00:22.199 --> 01:00:23.940
a terrible latex makeup.

1362
01:00:24.059 --> 01:00:29.460
In fact, my 1st encounter with Star Trek, the Next Generation was

1363
01:00:29.460 --> 01:00:35.820
when series one was released for rental only at video rental

1364
01:00:35.820 --> 01:00:36.539
places.

1365
01:00:36.599 --> 01:00:41.280
You can ask your father or grandfather what they are. viewers at

1366
01:00:41.280 --> 01:00:42.780
home, listeners at home.

1367
01:00:42.840 --> 01:00:48.059
Um, and the only 2 episodes of season one that they never released

1368
01:00:48.059 --> 01:00:52.199
were home soil and too short a season.

1369
01:00:52.260 --> 01:00:53.159
Why was?

1370
01:00:53.219 --> 01:00:56.280
I'm assuming that they thought they were really shit.

1371
01:00:56.760 --> 01:00:58.619
Wow, was this?

1372
01:00:58.679 --> 01:01:00.300
Well, I press it again.

1373
01:01:00.360 --> 01:01:00.840
I'm so sorry.

1374
01:01:00.900 --> 01:01:01.440
Good.

1375
01:01:01.500 --> 01:01:02.039
You know.

1376
01:01:02.099 --> 01:01:03.900
Okay, you're round up.

1377
01:01:04.019 --> 01:01:06.000
Oh, this could be good because it's pretty terrible.

1378
01:01:06.059 --> 01:01:08.579
But I think it's sort of mid-range terrible.

1379
01:01:08.820 --> 01:01:10.440
Oh, okay.

1380
01:01:10.440 --> 01:01:14.519
Your random Star Trek D Space 9 episode is season four, episode

1381
01:01:14.519 --> 01:01:15.300
21.

1382
01:01:15.539 --> 01:01:16.619
The Muse.

1383
01:01:16.679 --> 01:01:20.340
It's the one that no one likes in season 4 with Laxada Troy.

1384
01:01:20.400 --> 01:01:21.000
Oh, excellent.

1385
01:01:21.059 --> 01:01:27.119
So it means we've done Muse and the Muse at that point.

1386
01:01:27.179 --> 01:01:30.659
And it is, I mean, it is fairly ghastly.

1387
01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:33.300
Do you remember, it's called...

1388
01:01:33.300 --> 01:01:36.420
Jake's having his head strokes and all of his creative juices

1389
01:01:36.420 --> 01:01:38.400
sucked out by this alien.

1390
01:01:38.400 --> 01:01:43.860
And, um, Luas La Troy is getting married again to somebody that

1391
01:01:43.860 --> 01:01:44.880
she doesn't want to marry.

1392
01:01:44.940 --> 01:01:48.000
She's not been forced into it and Odo has to intervene.

1393
01:01:48.059 --> 01:01:50.519
Can you imagine the high jinx?

1394
01:01:50.579 --> 01:01:51.719
Are they trapped in a lift?

1395
01:01:51.780 --> 01:01:52.739
No, that's the 1st one.

1396
01:01:52.800 --> 01:01:53.880
That's really good.

1397
01:01:53.880 --> 01:01:55.079
So they've been trapped in the league.

1398
01:01:55.139 --> 01:01:58.440
This is the one where, you know, they've had 3 episodes together.

1399
01:01:58.500 --> 01:02:00.539
The 1st one where they met and he was trying to avoid her.

1400
01:02:00.599 --> 01:02:02.519
It was like some terrible sitcom episode.

1401
01:02:02.579 --> 01:02:06.179
The 2nd episode where she brought the love virus and everyone fell

1402
01:02:06.179 --> 01:02:06.659
in love.

1403
01:02:06.719 --> 01:02:08.099
So it's not a good sign.

1404
01:02:08.099 --> 01:02:12.300
If Lance turns up on DS9, This is the 3rd one where they've

1405
01:02:12.300 --> 01:02:14.039
absolutely besotted with each other now.

1406
01:02:14.099 --> 01:02:16.860
I don't know Axana and he plays...

1407
01:02:16.920 --> 01:02:20.219
I'm going to meld into something in my quarters and you have to

1408
01:02:20.219 --> 01:02:21.300
try and find me with her.

1409
01:02:21.360 --> 01:02:22.559
Oh dear.

1410
01:02:24.480 --> 01:02:27.719
It's like this changing the equivalent of hide and seek.

1411
01:02:27.840 --> 01:02:28.920
Right.

1412
01:02:28.980 --> 01:02:30.000
It just sounds awful.

1413
01:02:30.059 --> 01:02:31.679
Yeah, okay, I'm up for it.

1414
01:02:32.039 --> 01:02:36.059
We've done some awful DS9, but not always.

1415
01:02:36.119 --> 01:02:37.980
So I think we give it a go.

1416
01:02:38.039 --> 01:02:39.599
This is an accepted terrible episode.

1417
01:02:39.659 --> 01:02:42.300
So naturally, you're going to find things to enjoy.

1418
01:02:42.360 --> 01:02:43.619
Yeah, probably like it.

1419
01:02:43.679 --> 01:02:46.739
I wonder if it's as good as a night in Sick Bay.

1420
01:02:46.800 --> 01:02:48.599
There's a good possibility.

1421
01:02:48.659 --> 01:02:49.019
Yes.

1422
01:02:58.800 --> 01:03:02.099
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1423
01:03:02.099 --> 01:03:03.239
and Nathan Bottomley.

1424
01:03:03.300 --> 01:03:06.659
We're online at untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find

1425
01:03:06.659 --> 01:03:09.539
subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1426
01:03:09.659 --> 01:03:14.039
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran and the theme was composed

1427
01:03:14.039 --> 01:03:15.119
by Cameron Lamb.

1428
01:03:15.239 --> 01:03:19.860
This episode was recorded on the 23rd of January 2024 and released

1429
01:03:19.860 --> 01:03:21.659
on the 26th of January.

1430
01:03:21.719 --> 01:03:26.039
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Deep Space 9, the Muse.

1431
01:03:41.880 --> 01:03:44.219
Yeah, I said that.

1432
01:03:44.219 --> 01:03:45.360
Oh, is golf?

1433
01:03:45.420 --> 01:03:48.300
So if we've done Muse and the Muse, I think then we have to do

1434
01:03:48.300 --> 01:03:50.039
anomaly and anomaly.

1435
01:03:50.099 --> 01:03:53.519
The only 2 episodes of Star Trek that have the same name.

1436
01:03:53.519 --> 01:03:57.179
Isn't there homecoming the homecoming?

1437
01:03:57.539 --> 01:04:00.780
Oh, there's emissary and the emissary.

1438
01:04:00.840 --> 01:04:01.860
Like they've done that.

1439
01:04:01.920 --> 01:04:05.159
Muse and the Muse, but these ones are literally the same.

1440
01:04:05.219 --> 01:04:07.860
So it's anomaly which is a season three.

1441
01:04:07.920 --> 01:04:10.440
It might even be the one where they steal the warp cord.

1442
01:04:10.500 --> 01:04:12.119
Yeah, it's the one you ate, yeah.

1443
01:04:12.179 --> 01:04:16.199
Yeah, because it's a normally, because there's a space anomaly and

1444
01:04:16.199 --> 01:04:17.280
also because of their behaviour.

1445
01:04:17.340 --> 01:04:20.460
And then anomaly is the discovery one, isn't it?

1446
01:04:20.519 --> 01:04:24.239
Anomally, it's the discovery one where we discover the big...

1447
01:04:24.300 --> 01:04:25.440
And is that just an anomaly?

1448
01:04:25.500 --> 01:04:26.699
Yeah.

1449
01:04:26.760 --> 01:04:27.960
The DMA.

1450
01:04:28.019 --> 01:04:28.500
Yeah.

1451
01:04:28.559 --> 01:04:29.099
Yeah.

1452
01:04:29.159 --> 01:04:32.039
Yeah, the episode Austin, the series, I still haven't explored us

1453
01:04:32.039 --> 01:04:32.280
all.

1454
01:04:32.340 --> 01:04:36.719
Yeah, you should because that end of series 4, if we roll series 4

1455
01:04:36.719 --> 01:04:38.880
I'm going to just choose it because it's so good.

1456
01:04:39.239 --> 01:04:43.920
Well, take us away from 9 is next week, but we've done 4 on the

1457
01:04:43.920 --> 01:04:44.880
balance now, haven't we?

1458
01:04:44.940 --> 01:04:47.880
We did 2 TNGs of Voyager and a DS9.

1459
01:04:48.059 --> 01:04:49.320
No, hang on.

1460
01:04:49.380 --> 01:04:50.400
Wait.

1461
01:04:50.940 --> 01:04:52.920
We did reunion.

1462
01:04:53.039 --> 01:04:55.079
Treachery Play from the Great River.

1463
01:04:55.920 --> 01:04:57.780
Voyager.

1464
01:04:57.780 --> 01:04:59.340
Aces.

1465
01:04:59.400 --> 01:05:01.260
And then, yeah, do so tonight.

1466
01:05:01.320 --> 01:05:03.000
So we're actually still behind.

1467
01:05:03.059 --> 01:05:08.519
Like you say that we have to do lots of 90s track, but the one

1468
01:05:08.519 --> 01:05:16.079
series that we've done, so I think both Enterprise and TNG, we

1469
01:05:16.079 --> 01:05:20.400
have done less. than the percent.

1470
01:05:20.460 --> 01:05:21.179
Do you know what I mean?

1471
01:05:21.239 --> 01:05:22.559
Like there's a percent of ones we've done.

1472
01:05:22.619 --> 01:05:23.699
It's about 11%.

1473
01:05:23.760 --> 01:05:29.460
And we've done sort of 9 point something percent of TNG, for

1474
01:05:29.460 --> 01:05:29.760
instance.

1475
01:05:30.179 --> 01:05:32.940
Of a lot of episodes, I remember.

1476
01:05:33.059 --> 01:05:35.219
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1477
01:05:35.280 --> 01:05:35.699
Yeah, yeah.

1478
01:05:35.760 --> 01:05:39.599
But we've done less than, do you know what I mean, than if we were

1479
01:05:39.599 --> 01:05:41.159
to do the same amount of each one.

1480
01:05:41.219 --> 01:05:44.280
I just don't think there'll ever be another Star Trek show that

1481
01:05:44.280 --> 01:05:47.400
has as many episodes as TNG, DS9 and for that show.

1482
01:05:47.460 --> 01:05:48.599
There's no way.

1483
01:05:48.900 --> 01:05:52.980
They are the Behemoths of the Trek franchise.

1484
01:05:53.039 --> 01:05:56.280
Yeah, well, they're the sausage factories of the train franchise.

1485
01:05:56.340 --> 01:05:58.260
It's quite such a joy because...

1486
01:05:58.260 --> 01:06:03.300
The levels of quality are...

1487
01:06:03.300 --> 01:06:04.260
Manifest, yeah.

1488
01:06:05.039 --> 01:06:08.940
Although, um, I do look forward to the next time we go back to the

1489
01:06:08.940 --> 01:06:09.900
animated series again.

1490
01:06:09.960 --> 01:06:13.320
There's just not enough of them too, we can't do it too often

1491
01:06:13.320 --> 01:06:13.679
can't we?

1492
01:06:13.739 --> 01:06:14.639
Because there's not enough of it.

1493
01:06:14.699 --> 01:06:15.599
Well, we've done two.

1494
01:06:15.659 --> 01:06:17.460
We've done 2 of them, have we?

1495
01:06:17.519 --> 01:06:19.739
We've done BIM and we've done time trap.

1496
01:06:20.219 --> 01:06:22.440
I'm gonna run the stats.

1497
01:06:22.500 --> 01:06:24.059
I can hear their music.

1498
01:06:27.960 --> 01:06:30.000
It's so shit.

1499
01:06:30.420 --> 01:06:32.280
So low effort.

1500
01:06:32.340 --> 01:06:39.119
So animated series, we are 9.09%.

1501
01:06:39.179 --> 01:06:42.300
Overall we're 11.43%, right?

1502
01:06:42.360 --> 01:06:45.659
Discovery. we've done 12.73.

1503
01:06:45.840 --> 01:06:46.739
So we're ahead.

1504
01:06:46.800 --> 01:06:48.239
Deep space 9.

1505
01:06:48.360 --> 01:06:50.280
We're already ahead before next week.

1506
01:06:50.340 --> 01:06:56.159
Voyager, we're ahead not counting this week, so we're ahead, but

1507
01:06:56.159 --> 01:06:59.280
we are behind 9.09.

1508
01:06:59.460 --> 01:07:01.260
We're behind on TNG as well.

1509
01:07:01.440 --> 01:07:03.360
Oh, okay.

1510
01:07:03.420 --> 01:07:05.219
We're head on TOS.

1511
01:07:05.219 --> 01:07:06.840
Oh, we should go and have a prodigy.

1512
01:07:07.139 --> 01:07:09.360
We could do another prodigy.

1513
01:07:09.420 --> 01:07:10.980
We're well ahead, though, on prodigy.

1514
01:07:11.039 --> 01:07:14.639
We've done 3 out of 19 episodes, so that's 15%.

1515
01:07:14.699 --> 01:07:17.579
Oh, on Netflix now.

1516
01:07:17.699 --> 01:07:19.260
Yeah, yeah.

1517
01:07:19.320 --> 01:07:21.300
There's another season coming too, I think.

1518
01:07:21.360 --> 01:07:23.400
I think, in fact, we're supposed to watch.

1519
01:07:23.519 --> 01:07:28.320
Prodigy on Netflix in order to get the numbers up to be sure that

1520
01:07:28.320 --> 01:07:29.699
they make another season of it.

1521
01:07:29.760 --> 01:07:33.480
I mean, it works if it doesn't go anywhere, but it was so

1522
01:07:33.480 --> 01:07:34.079
charming.

1523
01:07:34.139 --> 01:07:35.219
It would be a shame.

1524
01:07:35.280 --> 01:07:36.360
It's really enjoyable.

1525
01:07:36.420 --> 01:07:37.500
Yeah.

1526
01:07:37.500 --> 01:07:41.639
More enjoys enjoyable than faces on the muse anyway.

1527
01:07:41.699 --> 01:07:44.340
Oh yeah, for sure. absolutely.

1528
01:07:44.400 --> 01:07:46.800
Well, I suppose that's still to be determined, but I can't imagine

1529
01:07:46.800 --> 01:07:49.440
it throwing any great revelations, I mean, in the next 7 days.

1530
01:07:49.559 --> 01:07:52.500
No, no, okay.

1531
01:07:52.559 --> 01:07:53.880
I like Oxana.

1532
01:07:53.940 --> 01:07:55.860
We have done a lot Xana episode there, haven't we?

1533
01:07:55.980 --> 01:07:58.139
Yeah, I think Manhunt.

1534
01:07:58.199 --> 01:07:59.820
It can't be as bad as a manhunt.

1535
01:07:59.880 --> 01:08:00.840
No, it's not.

1536
01:08:00.900 --> 01:08:02.460
Their chemistry is nice.

1537
01:08:02.519 --> 01:08:06.059
I'm sure more and and...

1538
01:08:06.119 --> 01:08:07.260
They're both older.

1539
01:08:07.320 --> 01:08:08.699
You know, yeah.

1540
01:08:08.760 --> 01:08:12.239
And I just like the fact that we've gotten over the whole, oh, this

1541
01:08:12.239 --> 01:08:13.619
old woman lusting after it.

1542
01:08:13.679 --> 01:08:16.260
That's just been kicked on the wayside now and they're just

1543
01:08:16.260 --> 01:08:16.800
mates.

1544
01:08:16.859 --> 01:08:22.020
And this is the one where he realises, oh, actually, maybe, if the

1545
01:08:22.020 --> 01:08:24.600
wind was in the right direction, I could have pursued something

1546
01:08:24.600 --> 01:08:25.140
with you.