WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 22:09:03

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, we're back on Deep Space 9 after a fairly long break, and we

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find ourselves back in series 7, as usual, and it's series 7

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episode 6.

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Treachery, Faith, and the Great River.

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Something keeps drawing us to season 7, doesn't it?

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And away from series one. you know, where all the duds are.

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Well, I really enjoyed this, and so this is the 3rd episode that

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sees Nog going on a kind of bartering sort of mission.

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So, and we've done one of them.

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So in progress in series one.

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We have the no J consortum buying stem bolts and stuff.

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I know that was a bit of fluff, but we love it.

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I love it.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I think it's really great.

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And then in the cards, I think, is perhaps the iteration of this

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idea that is the most interesting and works the best.

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No, I keep saying this, but we have technically done that one as

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well.

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We have, kind of.

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For a podcast that no longer or never did exist in the 1st place.

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That's right.

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It's sort of episode 0 or episode -one of untitled Star Trek

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project.

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We will definitely come back to it, I think.

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This, though, I think is really fun and agreeable.

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And in a season, that's kind of about the war and has a lot of

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things to wrap up.

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I'm always grateful that they ignored all of those fans who

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complained and just gave us hang time on the station with everyone

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doing fun things.

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And I thought that that plot worked incredibly well and was really

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agreeable and funny and likeable.

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Well, we almost catch up with everybody in that subplot in this

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don't we?

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We see Kira, we see Esri, and we see Martok and Worf. everyone

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gets a moment in there.

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But the whole time, O'Brien's pulling his hair out more and more

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as Nog does his outrageous swaps in order to get this stabiliser

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is it?

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I can't remember now.

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Some bit of technology that he needs for the defiant.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And all of that's fun and pep's one of the best parts of that

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subplot is how much fun column is as a Brian in that plot.

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And how eventually ends up being sort of carried away with the

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idea of the great river as well.

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He sort of adopts it as well.

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And I really like that too.

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It's like a hitherto unsuspected bit of harangue law that is just

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delightful.

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They make it up every year, don't they?

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And you know, Ira bear sitting there, you know, as they're sort of

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go through these scripts going, that's another version of the

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rules of acquisition, we can bring out this year.

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He's got the dollar signs in his eyes.

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So, so the other plot is the, is the more weighty, the more arc

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sort of ready plot, and it does actually push the arc along a

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little bit.

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I think there's a revelation at the end of the episode that is a

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proper revelation and does sort of push things on.

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I talk to this season and it's vital to Picard series 3 that we've

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just watched as well.

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Yeah, we didn't know it would have such an impact 20 odd years in

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the future.

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Yeah, there we go.

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Some twists are meant to last, aren't they?

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Yeah.

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And I thought that was really good. and again, you know, like

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sending Odo off always works quite well.

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And so here we have Odo and Wayoon in a really sort of surprising

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episode that changes even kind of the backstory a little bit

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because we learned that the Wayoon, who was on the station, uh

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during the that sort of occupation at the beginning of what, series

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6, uh, is now dead, and did I do the line?

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Oh yeah, go on.

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His death in a transporter accident is highly suspicious.

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And that's really fun.

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Like, that's a funny thing to do.

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And so now we have a new Wayoon who's with Damar, and we didn't

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really know that he was new when we 1st saw that.

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And we have this 7th wave in the 7th wave in the Sylvester McCoy

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of Waones, who shares faith with the other Waoon, but it expresses

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itself in a really different way.

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And so, like, there's a sense in which the 2 subplots are really

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not...

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Yeah.

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But they are tenuously linked, but they are properly linked with

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the idea of faith.

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And I think that makes a nice change, and it does kind of beef up

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the B plot a little bit more too, because it becomes about

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something interesting and something that's happening in the A

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plot.

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What did you think of the A-plot?

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What impressed me so much when I 1st watched this was I was

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utterly convinced this whole thing was a ruse all the way

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through.

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No matter no matter how good Jeffrey Coomb's performance was as

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the nice way in.

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I was convinced they were trying to get some tactical data because

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that's DS9's thing. is that it comes in with a big sort of

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political sting at the end and you're like, oh, that's what this

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was all about.

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And so the scene at the end where he commits suicide.

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Obviously we'll get there. in order to save Odo's life.

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It's so moving.

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Because that's the point where I'm like, okay, no, this has been

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for real the whole time.

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I want to watch this episode again and see this other reading on

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it now as well.

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And just beyond that, to Jeffrey Coombs in one episode.

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One is amazing. 2 is out of this world.

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I think he's brilliant.

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The performances as a whole in that, Renee Oberjonois and Casey

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Biggs as well.

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Casey Biggs, who just continues to impress me, the more I see him

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in these last season.

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He's really good.

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And they're just the very subtle things they're doing as well.

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Like him drinking the canal so much and stuff like that, which

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comes in really important later.

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They're seeding a lot in these 1st sort of 5 or 6 episodes of

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series 7.

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You don't really realise they're doing it.

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It's not until later when it all comes to fruition.

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I think it's great.

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My one issue with it, I did say I had one big complaint was that

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essentially, all the dramatic incident is told via exposition.

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So we learn an awful lot in this episode and all the juicy stuff

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like, you know, the disease hitting the great link or she walks in

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at one and we do see it.

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Yeah, we sort of be hitting a scabby face and all, sorry, to

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anybody who's something.

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But, But it does feel like we're talking about a lot of instant

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and Wayoon's death.

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All this stuff that's happened off screen.

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So it feels like we're cutting to after the drama and just talking

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about all of the consequences.

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But these are actors that can handle this sort of expository

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dialogue really really well.

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And at the same time it's telling a strong character story.

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So it gets away with it.

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But it is unlike DS9 to sort of cut from the drama and just talk

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about the consequences.

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Yeah, I mean, because this isn't an episode so much about the

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disease.

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It's just introducing whatever that disease is.

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And we'll learn and see more of that later.

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So it's just on the periphery of this episode.

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Whereas this episode is in some way about Odo becoming okay with

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the way that Wayun worships him, I guess.

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So it's so sweet, that bit at the end, where he says it gives him

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his blessing. plays it so well.

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It's really good.

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I'm finding more and more as I go through DS9 that these quiet

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revelations are far more affecting than the big, you know, dramatic

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moments that they try to sell all the time.

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So, you know, you've got, I don't know, sacrifice danger, which

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you've got all the fireworks going on and things like that.

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The Klingons are coming in and all of this is supposed to really

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make us feel something.

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But actually, it's, you can't cradling his child at the end in a

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very quiet moment as she dies in his arms.

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Those are the bits that really get to me.

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And I think this is a great example of it.

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There's another one in what you leave behind, you know, with the

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war coming to an end and Odo in the female shapeshifter just

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having a quick moment together.

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Oh, there are those sort of smaller moments that are just so well

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acted.

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I think that's DS9 Street.

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I think that's where they do their best work.

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Although I do like some big dumb spectacle, and there is a little

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bit of spectacle here unusually for an episode like this, and

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we'll get to that as well.

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Well, because it sort of becomes a cat mouse chase, doesn't it?

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Yeah, and I think that's done really well, like well realised.

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But then even within that, it's still reacting, that's the best.

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I love the bit where Wayoon, the, you know, the evil Wayoon

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decides, well, you know, well, we will bump off Odo.

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And it starts off by saying, you know, we can't kill a

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changeling.

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I forbid it.

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And then he's like, we can't let them know who's on that ship.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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He's so good.

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I mean, what a gift Jeffrey Codes was for this show.

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What a gift.

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Well, in fact, it's the faith of that Wayoon of Wayoon 6 that's

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perhaps more interesting than the faith of Wayoon 7.

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I think.

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And we'll talk about that as we go.

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What do you think?

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Should we go in?

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Let's definitely go in.

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Yes.

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All right.

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I'll count us in.

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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

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All right, so this scene is terrible.

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I love this. is the dirtiest opening to any episode of Star Trek.

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She's going a little lower.

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Oh, lower.

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It's, but I'm just getting, and that, like that terrible special

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effect of, of his, um, shapeshifter hand.

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And, you know, just a few weeks ago, we learned that in fact

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shapeshifters, changelings look like raw chicken meat.

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And so that was all I could think of when she's being massaged by

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him.

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And I'm also thinking that that special effect is there to cover

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the fact that Renee Obishonoir has old manhands at this point

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which we see.

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The special effect is the preferable option.

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What I do like about this scene is it is 2 characters in a mature

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relationship having like essential moment, which is something that

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we kind of asked for.

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And I'll buy the relationship.

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I guess, though, that I think it doesn't quite work because it's

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not about what the episode is about.

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And so this scene should be establishing how Odo feels about the

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way that the Vorter worship the changelings.

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And because he doesn't suspect there's a changeling or because

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they've set the plot up that way, you know, he looks like he's

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going to meet a Cardassian.

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We don't get the starting point here, which we probably should at

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the beginning.

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Well, it is sort of doing that DS line thing of leading you to

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think it's going to be one sort type of episode.

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A lot of them do this.

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A lot of the big hitters start with a quiet moment.

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It's like, oh, okay, I'm going to go off and investigate this

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thing.

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And then it turns out by the end of the pre-tartle sequence, we're

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in completely different territory.

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Yeah.

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Look at the state of the promenade.

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Why is the promenade in this state?

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we know?

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Well, he said the environmental systems have gone down or

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something like that.

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So, I don't know, maybe it's filled with fog or something.

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Who knows?

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But it does look like a terrible mess, doesn't it?

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It's not something from last week. that, uh, no, okay.

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Right.

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Of course, quartz appalled because he can't make any money because

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no one can get to the bar.

249
00:12:19.259 --> 00:12:22.080
I love this bit with Cisco.

250
00:12:22.200 --> 00:12:25.740
He's so succinct with threatening him, isn't he?

251
00:12:25.799 --> 00:12:27.779
You will do this by the time I get back.

252
00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:28.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

253
00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:31.440
And he goes, I'll try.

254
00:12:31.500 --> 00:12:34.440
And then Cisco sort of goes, hmm, and then walks off.

255
00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:40.559
I do like how he sells the fact that he was 10 kilos heavier on

256
00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:43.679
the Bridge of the Defiant, which I just thought was really great.

257
00:12:43.740 --> 00:12:45.179
It's like, it's making me fat.

258
00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:46.440
Can you fix it, please?

259
00:12:47.639 --> 00:12:51.659
He's so beautiful, Avery Brooks, isn't he?

260
00:12:51.720 --> 00:12:52.679
I wonder.

261
00:12:52.679 --> 00:12:55.740
Petty Johnson Gerald was excited every time she did the shot with

262
00:12:55.740 --> 00:12:55.860
him.

263
00:12:55.919 --> 00:12:57.600
Yeah, he's looking great, isn't he?

264
00:12:57.779 --> 00:13:01.679
So so, oh, okay.

265
00:13:01.740 --> 00:13:07.559
So we've already got Nog listening in on that conversation and now

266
00:13:07.559 --> 00:13:11.340
he's coming to fix the problem and it's so great.

267
00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:13.200
It's really, really terrifically funny.

268
00:13:13.259 --> 00:13:17.820
This is the tipping point because he gives, he gives Nog his

269
00:13:17.820 --> 00:13:19.080
authorisation code.

270
00:13:19.139 --> 00:13:22.679
So now Nog has got carte blanche to do what everyone wants.

271
00:13:22.740 --> 00:13:24.419
So the entire episode.

272
00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:25.019
Yep.

273
00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:28.500
The entire episode people are coming up to O'Brien just incredibly

274
00:13:28.500 --> 00:13:31.919
pissed off with him because it's something that Mark has done.

275
00:13:32.580 --> 00:13:36.240
The best spirit I will get there is the whole bit around the

276
00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:36.659
desk.

277
00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:38.100
I just love that so much.

278
00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:39.240
It's so fun.

279
00:13:39.299 --> 00:13:42.480
But the blood wine thing is pretty great as well. and sort of

280
00:13:42.480 --> 00:13:43.500
beautifully resolved.

281
00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:49.559
In in the cards, the glorious thing about it was the way that all

282
00:13:49.559 --> 00:13:54.179
of the trades that Jake and Nog had to do made everyone happier

283
00:13:54.179 --> 00:13:57.659
and it's like the night before the war begins, or we're expecting

284
00:13:57.659 --> 00:14:02.279
the occupation at any and we just get a little moment, a little

285
00:14:02.279 --> 00:14:04.860
reprieve, which I just think is beautiful.

286
00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:09.179
Here, you know, what we have are these sort of comedy moments

287
00:14:09.179 --> 00:14:11.580
where everyone's angry and then they're appeased and everything

288
00:14:11.580 --> 00:14:13.620
ends up being better than they expected.

289
00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:17.340
And again, it's a kind of supernatural thing.

290
00:14:17.399 --> 00:14:20.700
And in the cards, it was that cellular entertainment machine that

291
00:14:20.700 --> 00:14:23.519
was making that happen here.

292
00:14:23.580 --> 00:14:24.419
It's the great river.

293
00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:29.100
Oh, just at a moment to say just how effortlessly charming Aaron

294
00:14:29.100 --> 00:14:30.059
Eisenberg is.

295
00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:31.259
Oh, so good.

296
00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:33.539
Like, he's so watchable.

297
00:14:33.659 --> 00:14:36.240
And I really think that's underrated with actors.

298
00:14:36.299 --> 00:14:38.100
People could say, oh, they're nuanced.

299
00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:41.519
They're incredible actors, but he's just so effortlessly

300
00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:42.000
watchable.

301
00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:44.639
Yeah, he's really good, isn't he?

302
00:14:44.700 --> 00:14:47.580
Oh, look at this. moody lighting.

303
00:14:47.639 --> 00:14:49.379
We're down in stock case set number 68.

304
00:14:49.559 --> 00:14:51.059
Yeah, it's number one.

305
00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:57.779
So, Gul Rasol is actually dead, but we didn't really care anyway

306
00:14:57.779 --> 00:14:58.259
did we?

307
00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:04.500
No, I do love how this is lit, though. sort of harsh sort of angry

308
00:15:04.500 --> 00:15:05.759
lighting in this cave.

309
00:15:06.120 --> 00:15:10.139
Which we complain a lot about the flat lighting in 90s trick.

310
00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:11.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

311
00:15:11.580 --> 00:15:13.440
I think, you know, like this is pretty good.

312
00:15:13.500 --> 00:15:14.279
This is pretty good.

313
00:15:14.580 --> 00:15:18.840
Well, he sort of steps into the light and his eyes, his blue eyes

314
00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:20.639
where you pop in this light.

315
00:15:20.700 --> 00:15:21.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

316
00:15:21.899 --> 00:15:22.679
It's very striking.

317
00:15:22.740 --> 00:15:25.500
Although you can see the flaky makeup as usual.

318
00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:31.919
I did spend quite a bit of this episode feeling sorry for Renee

319
00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:32.519
actually.

320
00:15:32.580 --> 00:15:39.120
And there's a moment where he, there's a really touching moment

321
00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:42.960
the big moment of the episode, where he has to convey something

322
00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:47.220
but he can't do it with his face because he's got the fucking slab

323
00:15:47.220 --> 00:15:48.600
of latex on it.

324
00:15:48.659 --> 00:15:52.379
Well, the fact that he manages to convey so much emotion for that

325
00:15:52.379 --> 00:15:52.679
mask.

326
00:15:52.740 --> 00:15:54.539
It's extraordinary, isn't it?

327
00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:56.519
But it does seem like a bit of a thing.

328
00:15:56.580 --> 00:15:59.279
It was like we thought it was bad that Lever Burton's eyes were

329
00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:00.659
covered. for 7 years.

330
00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:04.740
I think he does it whip his body as well, Renee.

331
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:08.519
He just carries himself in ways that really are quite affecting.

332
00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:12.299
I'll try and remember to point out that bit of acting, which I

333
00:16:12.299 --> 00:16:15.960
thought was really good, that he does, you know, without having a

334
00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:17.039
facial expression.

335
00:16:17.100 --> 00:16:20.879
He's like, how do I do a reaction without using my facial

336
00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:21.299
features?

337
00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:24.600
It's pretty extraordinary.

338
00:16:24.659 --> 00:16:26.700
I wasn't convinced at all.

339
00:16:26.820 --> 00:16:28.559
This whole, you know, do with me what you will.

340
00:16:28.620 --> 00:16:31.379
I could place myself entirely in your hands.

341
00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:33.120
I'm defecting to the Federation.

342
00:16:33.179 --> 00:16:36.120
I was sitting here watching this the 1st time I go, no way

343
00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:36.899
whatever.

344
00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:42.120
And even Odo says, you know, you're defecting, like you can barely

345
00:16:42.120 --> 00:16:43.019
believe what he's hearing.

346
00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:47.039
It becomes more credible when we know that there's another way in

347
00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:49.980
back home, like still back on Cardassia.

348
00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:53.580
But at this point, it is a pretty shocking opening, isn't it?

349
00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:54.179
I guess.

350
00:16:54.240 --> 00:16:57.840
The fact that I would have had to have edited that scene together

351
00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:02.159
with Jeffrey Coombs playing both parts against 2 different

352
00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:02.639
actors.

353
00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:04.019
I love it.

354
00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:05.519
So good.

355
00:17:05.579 --> 00:17:09.779
Oh, I mean, the fact that that was improvised move, bringing

356
00:17:09.779 --> 00:17:13.200
Coombs back and making the water clones.

357
00:17:13.259 --> 00:17:17.099
The fact that they took something that they just decided to do

358
00:17:17.099 --> 00:17:21.359
because they wanted the actor back and then made incredible like

359
00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:22.559
creative choices around it.

360
00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:25.740
Yeah, yeah, it becomes part of the law and it is really just

361
00:17:25.740 --> 00:17:29.700
because we were fucking idiots to kill off Jeffrey last time.

362
00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:31.019
Let's get him back.

363
00:17:31.079 --> 00:17:34.140
You go back and watch it in that episode to the death.

364
00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:35.460
He is amazing in that.

365
00:17:35.579 --> 00:17:39.660
Like us making, while making it, I would have said, no, no, change

366
00:17:39.660 --> 00:17:40.200
the ending.

367
00:17:40.259 --> 00:17:41.460
We don't work anymore.

368
00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:44.579
Actually, I'm believed they did because all of these jokes around

369
00:17:44.579 --> 00:17:48.119
you know, the various clones, the bit later in the season where he

370
00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:50.759
gets his neck snapped by wolves in the cell.

371
00:17:50.759 --> 00:17:52.440
Oh, yeah.

372
00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:54.480
Damar just laughs his head off at it. is great.

373
00:17:54.779 --> 00:17:58.200
Well, don't they destroy the clone things?

374
00:17:58.200 --> 00:18:00.119
Like they destroy the...

375
00:18:00.180 --> 00:18:02.519
Oh, that's why he picked that target.

376
00:18:02.579 --> 00:18:03.720
Yeah, yeah.

377
00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:06.539
So here we get the I'm not a founder.

378
00:18:06.599 --> 00:18:09.900
So I guess that's our starting point, isn't it?

379
00:18:09.960 --> 00:18:11.220
I'm not a founder.

380
00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:11.819
Yeah.

381
00:18:11.880 --> 00:18:15.420
I do like how the episode does top and tail with Odo and Kira

382
00:18:15.420 --> 00:18:15.599
though.

383
00:18:15.660 --> 00:18:16.859
I do like that.

384
00:18:16.920 --> 00:18:18.839
It does give it sort of nice symmetry.

385
00:18:18.900 --> 00:18:19.380
Yeah.

386
00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:23.880
Oh, I know, just reminds us, like, I think you're right.

387
00:18:23.940 --> 00:18:27.059
The fact that the characters are in relationships with one another

388
00:18:27.059 --> 00:18:28.559
is actually pretty good, I think.

389
00:18:29.400 --> 00:18:33.359
You can do better than that, he says. you?

390
00:18:35.940 --> 00:18:40.500
Yeah, it just it all just felt a bit flimsy and then you're

391
00:18:40.500 --> 00:18:40.740
right.

392
00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:46.079
As we go to the runabout, as we learn about why he's left, as

393
00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:49.920
their relationship deepens, you start, it's like 2nd skin, you

394
00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:51.299
know, when you're presented with something.

395
00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:54.599
That's so obviously, and then throughout the episode, you're

396
00:18:54.599 --> 00:18:56.940
slowly sort of coming around to, oh, is this?

397
00:18:57.000 --> 00:18:57.599
Yeah, yeah.

398
00:18:57.660 --> 00:18:58.680
Really happening?

399
00:18:58.740 --> 00:19:05.279
Because this is very much the old, you know, um, uh, Weyun defects

400
00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:08.400
to the uh, Federation episode.

401
00:19:08.460 --> 00:19:09.240
Do you know what I mean?

402
00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:11.099
Like, that's the elevator pitch for it.

403
00:19:11.160 --> 00:19:14.579
And you kind of think, yes, well, we have to go back to the status

404
00:19:14.579 --> 00:19:16.980
quo anti at the end of this.

405
00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:18.119
So how is this going to work?

406
00:19:18.180 --> 00:19:22.380
What's a shame is, is I would have loved to have seen a way in

407
00:19:22.380 --> 00:19:26.460
with the Federation, and a way in, way in versus way in, in the

408
00:19:26.460 --> 00:19:26.759
war.

409
00:19:26.819 --> 00:19:28.740
Yeah, that's 10 episode...

410
00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:30.359
We could have put Jeff in every scene.

411
00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:34.619
And even here where he says, there's a kept yourself white

412
00:19:34.619 --> 00:19:38.700
facility in sector 507. you know, you can attack that or whatever

413
00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:39.779
given them vital.

414
00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:43.440
Even that I was like, well, they've planted that. to convince him

415
00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:46.319
you know, again, that's the sort of thing that DS9 does all the

416
00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:46.619
time.

417
00:19:46.680 --> 00:19:48.900
So he's sort of playing with our expectations.

418
00:19:49.380 --> 00:19:52.920
So the one thing that I discovered, which I thought was really

419
00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:55.740
great, and it's absolutely down to memory, Alfred.

420
00:19:55.799 --> 00:19:59.099
It never occurred to me, although of course it should, is that

421
00:19:59.099 --> 00:20:03.180
we're on the runabout Rio Grande, which obviously means Great

422
00:20:03.180 --> 00:20:03.720
River.

423
00:20:03.779 --> 00:20:08.519
And so we have a great river in the A plot and the B plot, which I

424
00:20:08.519 --> 00:20:09.779
just think is very cute.

425
00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:14.819
You know, I think that they do a decent job of tying these plots

426
00:20:14.819 --> 00:20:19.200
together thematically, even though the B plot is just agreeable

427
00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:20.099
filler, I think.

428
00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:23.579
I love that promenade say, you know.

429
00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:25.380
I know it's been an obvious thing to say.

430
00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:29.099
It's just so nice to have somewhere so roomy and a bit, what am I

431
00:20:29.099 --> 00:20:31.200
going to say, exotic, but just a bit different from what you

432
00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:32.400
normally see in Star Trek.

433
00:20:32.460 --> 00:20:33.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

434
00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:36.960
Just different colours and sort of weird elements, weird design

435
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:38.460
elements thrown together and stuff.

436
00:20:38.519 --> 00:20:40.799
I think it's a really, really great.

437
00:20:40.859 --> 00:20:46.740
I saw corridors in next gen and in Voyager. very boring in

438
00:20:46.740 --> 00:20:47.880
comparison, you know?

439
00:20:48.180 --> 00:20:51.240
And they fill it full of it and they don't at the moment because

440
00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:52.019
they do it repairs.

441
00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:53.640
Normally I just fill it full of extras.

442
00:20:53.700 --> 00:20:54.480
So it feels busy.

443
00:20:54.539 --> 00:20:56.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

444
00:20:56.460 --> 00:20:57.720
Oh, here we go.

445
00:20:57.779 --> 00:20:58.500
It started.

446
00:21:00.420 --> 00:21:05.880
So he's traded 2 things already. and then it goes, yeah, well

447
00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:08.279
that's the rumour that they want it. he goes, you've done all this

448
00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:09.180
based on a rumour?

449
00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:14.940
Rule of acquisition 168, whisper your way to success.

450
00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:17.880
I love how he says words to live by.

451
00:21:17.940 --> 00:21:19.319
That's okay.

452
00:21:19.380 --> 00:21:21.960
This is where he gives him his authorisation code.

453
00:21:22.019 --> 00:21:24.960
He thinks it's going to be nice and easy at this point.

454
00:21:25.019 --> 00:21:25.740
Yeah.

455
00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:26.700
Yeah, yeah.

456
00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:30.720
And we, I think that we know that it's going to turn out fine.

457
00:21:30.779 --> 00:21:32.279
Don't you think?

458
00:21:32.339 --> 00:21:35.279
Oh, it's so long the tone of this.

459
00:21:35.339 --> 00:21:36.599
Yeah, there's no way, yeah.

460
00:21:36.660 --> 00:21:37.920
No, no, no.

461
00:21:37.980 --> 00:21:40.740
But I think, you know, like he, we know that he's going to get in

462
00:21:40.740 --> 00:21:43.740
trouble and that it's, it's all going to turn out fine.

463
00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:46.440
But putting the desk on the line is really funny.

464
00:21:46.500 --> 00:21:48.779
Like that's a really funny twist.

465
00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:51.119
Well, it's carer's reaction.

466
00:21:51.180 --> 00:21:52.500
We'll get to it.

467
00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:55.200
And the replacement's even worse.

468
00:21:55.259 --> 00:21:58.680
Have you noticed how these, how these runabouts used to be the

469
00:21:58.680 --> 00:21:59.640
size of a cupboard?

470
00:21:59.700 --> 00:22:02.279
Now they're the size of a reasonable sized hotel room.

471
00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:04.079
Yeah, yeah, they're pretty big.

472
00:22:04.140 --> 00:22:05.099
They are pretty big.

473
00:22:05.160 --> 00:22:08.039
And yet, the exterior hasn't changed at all.

474
00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:13.980
Is this a is this a cheapy then?

475
00:22:14.039 --> 00:22:15.299
If we're all in the runabout?

476
00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:16.200
Is this a cheapy?

477
00:22:16.259 --> 00:22:18.420
I suppose there's a fair bit of CGI in this?

478
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:19.799
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

479
00:22:19.859 --> 00:22:23.460
I mean, it's, you know, they're all cheapies from our point of

480
00:22:23.460 --> 00:22:25.440
view now in the distant future, I think.

481
00:22:25.500 --> 00:22:31.259
So there's Zarafil of the other Wayoon, and here's Tamar.

482
00:22:31.500 --> 00:22:34.079
This whole sequence is great.

483
00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:39.720
And it's just the scene between 4 actors on a screen, but it's so

484
00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:40.019
funny.

485
00:22:40.259 --> 00:22:46.440
So Jeffrey Coombes says that this is his favourite episode and

486
00:22:46.440 --> 00:22:51.059
that he did his best to try and make them different.

487
00:22:51.180 --> 00:22:54.480
I think he's...

488
00:22:54.539 --> 00:22:54.900
Yeah.

489
00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:56.819
Yeah, I think he does.

490
00:22:56.880 --> 00:22:59.519
I feel like the way you know Kardashian is sort of more the way

491
00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:00.539
you and we're used to.

492
00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:01.619
Yes.

493
00:23:01.619 --> 00:23:06.059
It seems a bit devious, you know, and overcomplicated.

494
00:23:06.119 --> 00:23:08.880
Whereas the other one, he feels very gentle, doesn't he?

495
00:23:08.940 --> 00:23:10.440
And he just feels like a nice guy.

496
00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:12.539
Yeah, yeah.

497
00:23:12.599 --> 00:23:15.779
Like, I think that the interesting thing, though, is that they

498
00:23:15.779 --> 00:23:21.480
both share the same faith in the founders and the way that Damar

499
00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:27.059
is able to get him to kind of persuade him to go against that is

500
00:23:27.059 --> 00:23:27.599
interesting.

501
00:23:27.660 --> 00:23:33.000
And it does put Demari is on the, you know, like he's, he has the

502
00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:34.619
upper hand for some of this, I think.

503
00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:36.240
Did your ear is line then?

504
00:23:36.299 --> 00:23:41.579
Clones keeping track of them with a full-time job. 7 of them

505
00:23:41.579 --> 00:23:42.240
Casey.

506
00:23:42.299 --> 00:23:43.980
Just calm down, you can cope.

507
00:23:44.099 --> 00:23:47.700
Oh, listen to me. are you calling Odo your enemy?

508
00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:50.940
I was talking about the Federation, as you're very aware.

509
00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:55.019
I love it when the same actor is being bitchy with himself.

510
00:23:55.079 --> 00:23:56.519
Yes, yeah, yeah.

511
00:23:56.579 --> 00:23:58.259
Oh, here we go.

512
00:23:58.319 --> 00:23:59.759
The termination implant.

513
00:23:59.819 --> 00:24:01.740
So we've setting it up for the conclusion of the episode.

514
00:24:01.799 --> 00:24:02.819
Is that new?

515
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:04.740
We've never heard of that before.

516
00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:06.000
Okay, of course.

517
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:07.799
I mean, you could have just picked up a gun.

518
00:24:07.859 --> 00:24:08.640
But it's...

519
00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:10.619
I guess it might have been.

520
00:24:10.619 --> 00:24:12.059
If you're taking prisoner.

521
00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:13.859
Yeah, yep.

522
00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:19.259
I think, though, it also makes the gods awful.

523
00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:23.220
And there's that one moment, you know, where Odo tries to convince

524
00:24:23.220 --> 00:24:28.140
Weon that the founders are not gods.

525
00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:28.980
They're not good.

526
00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:32.759
They've just genetically engineered you to believe that they're

527
00:24:32.759 --> 00:24:33.180
gods.

528
00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:37.859
And the response to that is so perfect, which is, yes, that is

529
00:24:37.859 --> 00:24:40.319
exactly the sort of thing that God's would.

530
00:24:40.380 --> 00:24:43.079
Doesn't he say, why would you be a god if there's no one to serve

531
00:24:43.079 --> 00:24:43.259
you?

532
00:24:43.319 --> 00:24:44.759
Or something.

533
00:24:44.819 --> 00:24:45.359
That's the lie.

534
00:24:45.420 --> 00:24:48.599
And so, and there is cruelty in it, isn't there?

535
00:24:48.660 --> 00:24:52.920
Because he expects that activating it to be painless and it's

536
00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:53.819
not.

537
00:24:53.819 --> 00:24:57.059
And he's been told it's painless, but that's wrong.

538
00:24:57.119 --> 00:25:01.500
You know, so the cruelty of the founders as gods is pretty

539
00:25:01.500 --> 00:25:02.700
interesting here.

540
00:25:02.759 --> 00:25:06.180
And it's not centred in the episode, but it's just.

541
00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:07.380
It's an extra layer, isn't it?

542
00:25:07.500 --> 00:25:09.900
on top of what we've already seen with the Gemazar and their

543
00:25:09.900 --> 00:25:12.240
addiction to the Y, which is also very cruel.

544
00:25:12.299 --> 00:25:13.440
Yeah, yeah.

545
00:25:13.500 --> 00:25:16.380
And just things like the quickening where they've, you know

546
00:25:16.380 --> 00:25:18.539
blighted entire planets and things like that.

547
00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:20.039
Like, they're a credible threat.

548
00:25:20.099 --> 00:25:21.000
Yeah.

549
00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:22.859
If you do that to your own people.

550
00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:25.319
What the hell are you going to do for the enemy, you know?

551
00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:27.900
And that's what's interesting about it?

552
00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:32.220
Remember when we did sort of series 3 of enterprise and we had the

553
00:25:32.220 --> 00:25:36.599
sort of the Zindi who just sort of came in a variety of shapes and

554
00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:41.099
sizes and sort of how crap and unearned that was?

555
00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:44.400
Whereas this is done really properly, isn't it?

556
00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:45.960
And they sort of piece it together.

557
00:25:46.019 --> 00:25:48.720
Like they don't have a grand plan, I don't think.

558
00:25:48.779 --> 00:25:52.799
Like, I think that by this point we have the 4 to the Jemhadar and

559
00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:55.740
the founders and their relationships and all of that very clearly

560
00:25:55.740 --> 00:25:58.440
established, but they make it up as they go along, don't they?

561
00:25:58.500 --> 00:26:00.839
They ceded the Dominion in series 2.

562
00:26:01.019 --> 00:26:06.000
They came along at the end of series 2 and then in 3 and four, they

563
00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:09.599
did a series of character tales, like slower tales where they

564
00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:13.680
examined the power structure inside the Dominion and, you know

565
00:26:13.680 --> 00:26:17.160
each of the three, the, you know, the founders, the Vorta and the

566
00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:18.000
Gemadar.

567
00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:21.000
That meant when it came to the war stuff, when we were becoming

568
00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:24.779
more serialised, all that stuff had been established, and you can

569
00:26:24.779 --> 00:26:27.660
start doing interesting dramatic things like this with it, where

570
00:26:27.660 --> 00:26:28.619
you start surprising people.

571
00:26:28.680 --> 00:26:31.440
That's quite, you do, you need the time.

572
00:26:31.500 --> 00:26:35.039
You need the time to establish things in order for them to pay

573
00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:35.279
off.

574
00:26:35.339 --> 00:26:36.839
Enterprise had one season.

575
00:26:36.900 --> 00:26:39.779
That was it was ill defined as well.

576
00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:42.359
Like you probably could do it in 26 episodes.

577
00:26:42.420 --> 00:26:43.980
That's 26 hours of telly.

578
00:26:44.039 --> 00:26:44.579
Yeah.

579
00:26:44.579 --> 00:26:50.519
So, so is this the 1st that we've seen of Tamar drinking?

580
00:26:50.579 --> 00:26:52.019
No.

581
00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:55.680
Do you remember he had that woman on his arm in Shadows and

582
00:26:55.680 --> 00:26:56.160
Symbols?

583
00:26:56.220 --> 00:26:57.599
Oh, yeah.

584
00:26:57.599 --> 00:26:59.700
And he was drinking, one arm was the woman.

585
00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:00.720
One arm was the drink.

586
00:27:00.779 --> 00:27:01.500
That's right.

587
00:27:01.559 --> 00:27:02.099
That's right.

588
00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:05.640
That's where he went, what a what a charming woman.

589
00:27:06.180 --> 00:27:07.799
That's right.

590
00:27:07.859 --> 00:27:09.119
I might have to kill her.

591
00:27:09.299 --> 00:27:13.440
But you never, you always know tomorrow's out of his death, don't

592
00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:13.559
you?

593
00:27:13.619 --> 00:27:14.759
Like, you're never in any now.

594
00:27:14.819 --> 00:27:16.980
He's not here though, is he?

595
00:27:17.099 --> 00:27:22.740
Like, he actually, that's why he offers Wayuna drink, don't you

596
00:27:22.740 --> 00:27:23.039
think?

597
00:27:23.099 --> 00:27:27.779
Because he's in charge because Wayoon's embarrassed about the fact

598
00:27:27.779 --> 00:27:32.759
that it was a Wayoon who has defected and so he's on the back

599
00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:33.420
foot.

600
00:27:33.420 --> 00:27:39.420
And here we have a situation where DeMar can handle the situation

601
00:27:39.420 --> 00:27:42.839
because he doesn't give a shit about whether he kills Odo or not

602
00:27:42.839 --> 00:27:46.680
but Wayoon does and look at what's at stake.

603
00:27:46.740 --> 00:27:47.339
And look at them.

604
00:27:47.400 --> 00:27:48.180
Do you know what I mean?

605
00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:53.339
Like, it, like, he's absolutely in charge and, and, um, and, uh

606
00:27:53.339 --> 00:27:54.180
Wayoon isn't.

607
00:27:54.180 --> 00:27:57.480
Oh, Combs is totally stealing this scene.

608
00:27:57.539 --> 00:27:58.799
He's not even saying a word.

609
00:27:58.859 --> 00:28:00.299
He's just staring off camera.

610
00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:07.019
I do think Casey Biggs is great, but oh, he can do something with

611
00:28:07.019 --> 00:28:07.500
stillness.

612
00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:09.059
He's great.

613
00:28:09.119 --> 00:28:12.180
Look at him smiling here as he suggests this.

614
00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:13.619
Look at him smiling.

615
00:28:13.680 --> 00:28:14.400
It's wonderful.

616
00:28:14.460 --> 00:28:15.420
Look.

617
00:28:16.980 --> 00:28:22.380
Remember we said about reunion last week about how extraordinary

618
00:28:22.380 --> 00:28:25.380
it was to see things from the enemy's point of view.

619
00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:28.920
Well, we've got to a point in DS9 now, where there's an entire

620
00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:33.599
subplot running on Cardassia with the enemy.

621
00:28:33.660 --> 00:28:36.720
It makes the show so much more interesting as a result.

622
00:28:36.779 --> 00:28:40.799
And often it's camp like, and that's kind of a fun thing.

623
00:28:40.859 --> 00:28:42.119
We love that too.

624
00:28:42.180 --> 00:28:43.200
Usually camp.

625
00:28:43.259 --> 00:28:44.700
But I mean, this is great.

626
00:28:44.759 --> 00:28:48.119
It's actually fun to see Tamara on the look at him. absolutely

627
00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:49.259
winning this scene.

628
00:28:49.319 --> 00:28:49.859
It's awesome.

629
00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:51.900
Come on, I do love.

630
00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:58.019
I do love how Wyung doesn't even say yes, you know, destroyed a

631
00:28:58.019 --> 00:28:59.700
runabout, he just does it with a look.

632
00:28:59.819 --> 00:29:02.099
Yeah, yeah, but he also just walks off.

633
00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:07.440
He doesn't like, you know, um, look, uh, have another drink

634
00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:07.859
Casey.

635
00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:09.000
What is that?

636
00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:11.819
It's treacle, isn't it?

637
00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:12.960
No, no, no, no.

638
00:29:13.019 --> 00:29:19.740
The I think the glass is has a sort of is not glass. for reasons

639
00:29:19.740 --> 00:29:22.380
of...

640
00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:25.380
See you, Esrie.

641
00:29:25.500 --> 00:29:26.579
Just say, bye, Nicole.

642
00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:27.720
Thanks for your scene.

643
00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:29.160
The lift's working this week.

644
00:29:29.220 --> 00:29:30.599
Sort of.

645
00:29:30.660 --> 00:29:32.640
How weird does that set?

646
00:29:32.700 --> 00:29:35.099
How does weird does his office look without the desk in it?

647
00:29:35.160 --> 00:29:36.660
It's awesome, isn't it?

648
00:29:37.019 --> 00:29:39.180
So this is the 1st time.

649
00:29:40.019 --> 00:29:42.599
He only has to say one word.

650
00:29:42.660 --> 00:29:43.740
Nog.

651
00:29:45.299 --> 00:29:52.079
And, and, um, and it's, I love the idea that it's a guy at such a

652
00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:56.220
lower decks kind of conceit where there's this guy who wants to

653
00:29:56.220 --> 00:30:00.420
get his photograph behind everyone's desks and he's already got

654
00:30:00.420 --> 00:30:01.859
he's studied with all the best.

655
00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:03.960
Captain DeSoto, Captain Picard.

656
00:30:04.019 --> 00:30:07.799
I had to look up Captain DeSoto, but of course Captain DeSoto was

657
00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:13.319
the person who recommended Riker, like who Riker served under

658
00:30:13.319 --> 00:30:15.420
before the Enterprise.

659
00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:20.400
I think the direction in this subplot is really great because they

660
00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:21.839
keep doing comic cuts.

661
00:30:21.900 --> 00:30:25.319
So you went there, straight to not going, don't worry, chief.

662
00:30:25.380 --> 00:30:26.640
I'll get the desktop.

663
00:30:26.700 --> 00:30:30.420
So, we're trusted to sort of very quickly go into the next bit, and

664
00:30:30.420 --> 00:30:34.619
then later on, we cut straight to Martok going, where are my clays

665
00:30:34.619 --> 00:30:35.940
there's our blood, why?

666
00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:41.819
No, he doesn't have the stabiliser.

667
00:30:43.079 --> 00:30:46.740
But we don't need an induction modulator.

668
00:30:46.859 --> 00:30:50.579
I feel like they're taking a piss out the technobab war bit as

669
00:30:50.579 --> 00:30:50.940
well.

670
00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:55.019
They are a little bit, but remember self stealing stem bolts, which

671
00:30:55.019 --> 00:30:59.099
actually date all the way back from progress, and that was, like

672
00:30:59.099 --> 00:31:03.480
it was, uh, you know, Jake saying that we didn't need self

673
00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:06.299
stealing stem bolts, and indeed we don't actually know what they

674
00:31:06.299 --> 00:31:06.480
are.

675
00:31:06.539 --> 00:31:10.559
Watch Eisenberg's performance here, where he talks about the, you

676
00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:13.980
know, the great river and the material continuum and all that. sort

677
00:31:13.980 --> 00:31:14.579
of wistfully.

678
00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:18.599
No matter how much they put that federation dogma inside of him.

679
00:31:18.660 --> 00:31:20.339
He's still a Ferengi, isn't he?

680
00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:21.839
He still believes in this stuff.

681
00:31:21.900 --> 00:31:26.460
But it's also that thing too, which I think is wonderful where at

682
00:31:26.460 --> 00:31:31.740
the very beginning, he, the 1st thing that he asks, uh, O'Brien is

683
00:31:31.740 --> 00:31:35.519
what's his 1st name, you know, who's his wife, what does he want?

684
00:31:35.579 --> 00:31:37.980
you know because he still thinks like that.

685
00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:41.339
And this is a strength that he brings.

686
00:31:41.400 --> 00:31:46.740
You know, being a Ferengi, is not a is isn't a liability here.

687
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:50.039
It's helping him help O'Brien do his job better.

688
00:31:50.099 --> 00:31:54.180
I love how this is explained, all these 1000000s of worlds, filled

689
00:31:54.180 --> 00:31:57.359
with too much of one thing and not enough of another, and there's

690
00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:02.579
like a mighty river flowing through it, fabulous, from have to

691
00:32:02.579 --> 00:32:04.380
want to have again.

692
00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:06.180
It's really good, isn't it?

693
00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:11.579
And he even talks about navigating the river with grace as well.

694
00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:12.480
It's wonderful.

695
00:32:13.500 --> 00:32:16.799
And the river will provide, you know.

696
00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:23.279
But it's also, it's also, like, you know, when the Frank, you were

697
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:25.920
introduced and they were capitalists and they were evil and we

698
00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:29.700
felt, you know, superior to them because we're from our socialist

699
00:32:29.700 --> 00:32:36.059
techno utopia where money's been banished, here, being a Ferengi

700
00:32:36.059 --> 00:32:38.759
is a good thing and there's something lyrical and wonderful about

701
00:32:38.759 --> 00:32:39.900
the Great River, I think.

702
00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:44.700
How far have we moved on from basically insulting and controlling

703
00:32:44.700 --> 00:32:46.380
the Ferengi and TNG?

704
00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:47.700
Yeah, yeah.

705
00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:51.299
No, here it's that thing where we've joined the Federation and the

706
00:32:51.299 --> 00:32:55.019
Federation benefit from having a Ferengi member.

707
00:32:55.079 --> 00:32:57.599
You take DSI out of the equation.

708
00:32:57.720 --> 00:33:01.500
I think the Ferengi would be considered just a massive, terrible

709
00:33:01.500 --> 00:33:01.740
joke.

710
00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:03.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

711
00:33:03.599 --> 00:33:06.119
Oh, well, they were the big band for series one, weren't they?

712
00:33:06.180 --> 00:33:08.279
And then it turned out they were terrifying.

713
00:33:08.940 --> 00:33:13.440
Armond Shimmerman took on 7 years in latex just to make up his

714
00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:15.779
performance. exactly.

715
00:33:19.019 --> 00:33:21.359
Oh, this is where he goes.

716
00:33:21.420 --> 00:33:22.380
He's really good.

717
00:33:22.380 --> 00:33:25.079
Look at what your people have done for us, Odo.

718
00:33:26.160 --> 00:33:30.480
It's it's quietly very powerful dialogue.

719
00:33:30.539 --> 00:33:31.680
Yeah.

720
00:33:31.740 --> 00:33:32.460
Yeah.

721
00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:36.119
Yeah, and they have something in common, don't they?

722
00:33:36.180 --> 00:33:39.059
They have a sort of weird relationship with the rest of the

723
00:33:39.059 --> 00:33:39.720
founders.

724
00:33:39.779 --> 00:33:41.160
I love these too.

725
00:33:41.220 --> 00:33:44.220
It's very sweet where you ask him, do you think they'll make you

726
00:33:44.220 --> 00:33:44.940
do the debriefing?

727
00:33:45.059 --> 00:33:46.079
Because he's scared?

728
00:33:46.140 --> 00:33:47.160
Yes, possibly.

729
00:33:47.220 --> 00:33:50.279
He says, possibly, you know, like he doesn't automatically say

730
00:33:50.279 --> 00:33:50.700
no.

731
00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:53.819
Oh, here we go.

732
00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:55.019
Here comes the gem at all.

733
00:33:55.079 --> 00:33:56.759
I do think we need a bit of action at this point, though.

734
00:33:56.819 --> 00:33:57.720
It has all been talked.

735
00:33:58.200 --> 00:33:59.579
Yeah.

736
00:33:59.640 --> 00:34:00.960
And I do quite like as well.

737
00:34:01.019 --> 00:34:04.200
No, no, isn't as sophisticated as the CGI we get now.

738
00:34:04.259 --> 00:34:04.859
Of course it isn't.

739
00:34:04.920 --> 00:34:08.760
It's 20 years ago, but there's sort of the way the ships are

740
00:34:08.760 --> 00:34:09.059
moving.

741
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:10.619
Thank you.

742
00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:11.760
I feel old.

743
00:34:11.820 --> 00:34:13.920
The way the ships are moving.

744
00:34:13.980 --> 00:34:18.840
It's so much more dynamic than it was, you know, sort of 5 or 6

745
00:34:18.840 --> 00:34:19.320
years ago.

746
00:34:19.380 --> 00:34:26.219
So the thing that it made me think of was, was the Pegasus, which

747
00:34:26.219 --> 00:34:31.559
I actually think it does pretty well with those scenes inside the

748
00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:36.119
asteroid belt, but here we're in like a Kuiper belt, which is

749
00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:37.920
where Pluto is.

750
00:34:37.980 --> 00:34:42.420
Pluto's been sort of downgraded to be a sort of big Kuyper belt

751
00:34:42.420 --> 00:34:42.840
object.

752
00:34:42.900 --> 00:34:48.239
And so this is what's at the kind of perimeter of the solar

753
00:34:48.239 --> 00:34:48.780
system.

754
00:34:48.780 --> 00:34:53.639
And I think it makes for a really interesting visual because it is

755
00:34:53.639 --> 00:34:57.900
different from the sort of fast moving rocks that we're used to

756
00:34:57.900 --> 00:35:00.539
seeing in an asteroid belt in this show.

757
00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:02.280
I really like this.

758
00:35:02.340 --> 00:35:05.579
The sort of the environmental conditions means it affects the

759
00:35:05.579 --> 00:35:07.079
inside of the runabout as well.

760
00:35:07.139 --> 00:35:08.400
So they are in real danger.

761
00:35:08.460 --> 00:35:12.960
Oh, I love this because this was the point where I'm 1st watching

762
00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:16.619
where Wei Yin helps I don't destroy the Jem'adar shoot, I'm going

763
00:35:16.619 --> 00:35:18.000
okay, why would he do that?

764
00:35:18.059 --> 00:35:19.139
Right.

765
00:35:19.139 --> 00:35:20.699
If this is all a trick.

766
00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:21.719
Yeah.

767
00:35:22.559 --> 00:35:27.420
So I, yeah, my, my, my belief in where this episode was going was

768
00:35:27.420 --> 00:35:27.900
crumbling.

769
00:35:28.260 --> 00:35:33.059
I think probably once the other way in arrives, do you know what I

770
00:35:33.059 --> 00:35:33.239
mean?

771
00:35:33.300 --> 00:35:36.480
Unless he's a pre-recording or something, because you're not going

772
00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:40.079
to leave the episode with 2 Wayons running around.

773
00:35:40.139 --> 00:35:41.760
Oh, here's that bit.

774
00:35:41.820 --> 00:35:45.239
Has it ever occurred to you that they've built, you know, the fact

775
00:35:45.239 --> 00:35:47.880
that you think they're gods into your genetic character?

776
00:35:47.940 --> 00:35:48.599
Well, of course.

777
00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:50.039
Yes, of course, of course they did that.

778
00:35:53.099 --> 00:35:55.559
How else do you expect gods to behave?

779
00:35:55.619 --> 00:35:56.340
Exactly.

780
00:35:57.480 --> 00:35:59.699
Oh, here's Rome.

781
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:03.300
I just love these characters, though, but I could just hang with

782
00:36:03.300 --> 00:36:03.960
these characters.

783
00:36:04.019 --> 00:36:10.139
So, and now Rom is wearing a Bajoran uniform, and so he's just

784
00:36:10.139 --> 00:36:11.219
when does this happen?

785
00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:12.480
He gets...

786
00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:14.039
Series 5, the assignment.

787
00:36:14.099 --> 00:36:18.599
Okay. is where O'Brien uses him terribly in that when Keiko's

788
00:36:18.599 --> 00:36:22.019
taken over by the Parl Rafe, and he uses ROM as a scapegoat, and

789
00:36:22.019 --> 00:36:25.320
then at the end, he promotes him for basically doing what he's

790
00:36:25.320 --> 00:36:25.440
told.

791
00:36:25.500 --> 00:36:25.739
Yeah.

792
00:36:25.800 --> 00:36:28.079
So he's our new Eddington, do you think?

793
00:36:28.139 --> 00:36:31.440
He's someone that O'Brien bosses around.

794
00:36:34.860 --> 00:36:36.599
Here we go.

795
00:36:36.659 --> 00:36:37.860
It's another one of those cuts.

796
00:36:37.980 --> 00:36:39.119
At least we've not gone.

797
00:36:39.179 --> 00:36:40.679
There'll be nothing else going missing.

798
00:36:40.739 --> 00:36:42.480
Where are my cases?

799
00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:43.500
I've got Ryan.

800
00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:48.659
I mean, it's total sitcom, isn't it?

801
00:36:48.719 --> 00:36:50.159
Yeah, yeah.

802
00:36:50.219 --> 00:36:53.699
And it's partly just to get wharf involved as well, I think, in

803
00:36:53.699 --> 00:36:56.460
the episode for contractual reasons he needs something to do.

804
00:36:56.519 --> 00:36:58.440
But that's...

805
00:36:58.440 --> 00:37:00.360
Sorry to interrupt.

806
00:37:00.420 --> 00:37:04.500
That bloody screen on the wall. that shows, you know, with all the

807
00:37:04.500 --> 00:37:05.340
different ships.

808
00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:08.699
They get so much out of that because there's clearly cost them a

809
00:37:08.699 --> 00:37:10.260
lot of money by the end of the season.

810
00:37:10.380 --> 00:37:12.659
They see that that screen a lot.

811
00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:16.500
Oh, here she comes.

812
00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:17.400
Here she comes.

813
00:37:17.460 --> 00:37:18.900
Salomi gens.

814
00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:19.739
Yeah.

815
00:37:19.739 --> 00:37:24.119
I think by the end of this season. does match Amanda Plummer for

816
00:37:24.119 --> 00:37:26.760
being total badass evil founder.

817
00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:28.440
She is pretty great.

818
00:37:28.500 --> 00:37:29.579
She is pretty great.

819
00:37:29.639 --> 00:37:31.139
Oh yeah, look at that.

820
00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:37.199
So we get to see that before we hear where you're in 6's

821
00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:39.719
description. of what the founders are like.

822
00:37:39.780 --> 00:37:41.639
We sort of need it, are we?

823
00:37:41.699 --> 00:37:43.860
You need a demonstration and then the context.

824
00:37:43.980 --> 00:37:46.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

825
00:37:46.500 --> 00:37:49.500
And she's not even aware of it and she makes it go away.

826
00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:50.699
I think that's really interesting.

827
00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:57.179
The twist I love is how they fed that into previous episodes of DS

828
00:37:57.179 --> 00:37:57.420
9.

829
00:37:57.480 --> 00:38:01.860
So when Odo went to Earth in season 4 and went to Starfleet

830
00:38:01.860 --> 00:38:04.860
Medical, that's when they infected him with the virus.

831
00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:07.440
And that's what we discover towards the end.

832
00:38:07.500 --> 00:38:11.699
So Bishir's doing tests on Odo because he wants to, I don't know

833
00:38:11.699 --> 00:38:16.440
create organs that can automatically feel and shape inside

834
00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:16.800
people.

835
00:38:16.860 --> 00:38:20.519
So it takes a bit of Odo away, then learns about the virus and

836
00:38:20.519 --> 00:38:24.780
then does dig in into Odo's records as to when this changed and it

837
00:38:24.780 --> 00:38:25.320
was then.

838
00:38:25.380 --> 00:38:27.179
It's really well done.

839
00:38:27.239 --> 00:38:30.000
And then suddenly then Odo is condemning the Federation saying

840
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:32.699
it's funny, you know, you're accused the founders of doing these

841
00:38:32.699 --> 00:38:35.219
terrible things, but when the chips are down, what you've done.

842
00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:36.599
Yeah, it's really good.

843
00:38:36.659 --> 00:38:40.739
And it gives a good reason for Amanda Plummer to be as pissed as

844
00:38:40.739 --> 00:38:41.639
she is in Picard as well.

845
00:38:41.699 --> 00:38:43.920
Yeah, in fact, that's quite good, isn't it?

846
00:38:43.980 --> 00:38:46.619
Look, he's eating a pizza with chopsticks.

847
00:38:46.679 --> 00:38:51.300
There we go Well, he does it so playful.

848
00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:55.260
Yeah, all right, I'm done with that food.

849
00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:58.739
It's been sitting there cold for hours.

850
00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:00.300
Yeah, that's right.

851
00:39:01.500 --> 00:39:04.380
I love his snap, his feeling.

852
00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:10.260
Oh, this is great as well, where we learn the backstory of the

853
00:39:10.260 --> 00:39:15.300
water as these sort of simple forest dwelling creatures that that

854
00:39:15.300 --> 00:39:18.420
would have been very inoffensive, but then along came the founders

855
00:39:18.420 --> 00:39:22.980
and they genetically re-engineered them into like war criminals.

856
00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:28.260
But there's also a kind of, I mean, for both the Jemmedar and the

857
00:39:28.260 --> 00:39:29.340
Vorta.

858
00:39:29.400 --> 00:39:32.460
There's a kind of violence done to them, like a sort of

859
00:39:32.460 --> 00:39:37.500
existential violence, like that making them exist like this is

860
00:39:37.500 --> 00:39:38.280
what they've done.

861
00:39:38.340 --> 00:39:43.440
And so you've got the Jemadar who live for 9 years or 7 years and

862
00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:47.340
are addicted to this drug and have to obey the founders.

863
00:39:47.400 --> 00:39:50.579
And then you've got the vorta who can't taste anything.

864
00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:54.900
There just seems to be a sort of petty kind of cruelty to that.

865
00:39:55.619 --> 00:39:58.619
Did you did you hear Odo's line then?

866
00:39:58.679 --> 00:39:59.820
He was basically you and me.

867
00:39:59.880 --> 00:40:03.719
Uh, where you goes, well, have you not heard the backstory about

868
00:40:03.719 --> 00:40:04.320
the water?

869
00:40:04.380 --> 00:40:06.179
Oh, no, goes.

870
00:40:06.239 --> 00:40:09.059
No, but I imagine you're going to tell me all about it.

871
00:40:11.460 --> 00:40:14.219
Oh, that's you and me on every night.

872
00:40:18.300 --> 00:40:22.440
And I do like the fact as well that the reason why the founders

873
00:40:22.440 --> 00:40:26.940
are as paranoid and suspicious as they are is because they were

874
00:40:26.940 --> 00:40:27.480
mistreated.

875
00:40:27.539 --> 00:40:30.780
So it's fear, basically.

876
00:40:30.840 --> 00:40:31.500
Yeah.

877
00:40:31.559 --> 00:40:32.940
It's not they're just evil.

878
00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:37.619
Well, I also like this too, because this is something that Wayoon

879
00:40:37.619 --> 00:40:40.199
is able to give Odo.

880
00:40:40.260 --> 00:40:46.199
You know, Odo knows so little at this point, and Wayoon is telling

881
00:40:46.199 --> 00:40:52.139
you know, telling the story of one of his ancestors, I guess. you

882
00:40:52.139 --> 00:40:55.260
know, and so he's learning more about what the founders are.

883
00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:57.900
Like he's gaining something from this.

884
00:40:59.219 --> 00:41:01.559
It's all just adding, isn't it?

885
00:41:01.619 --> 00:41:04.619
It's adding to the characters, it's adding to the mythos. adding

886
00:41:04.619 --> 00:41:05.400
to the backstory.

887
00:41:05.820 --> 00:41:07.559
And what about that?

888
00:41:07.619 --> 00:41:12.119
This is what you can do with running storylines and consequences

889
00:41:12.119 --> 00:41:12.719
in a show.

890
00:41:12.780 --> 00:41:14.940
Well, also because they're sort of clever.

891
00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:19.019
Like, I don't think they plan for a 2nd when Odo went to Starfleet

892
00:41:19.019 --> 00:41:20.219
headquarters to get checked out.

893
00:41:20.280 --> 00:41:22.559
No, they didn't plan.

894
00:41:22.619 --> 00:41:27.059
You know, they decided, oh, wait, how about, you know, back then

895
00:41:27.059 --> 00:41:27.719
maybe...

896
00:41:27.719 --> 00:41:29.460
You can see Ron Moore, Ira Bear.

897
00:41:29.460 --> 00:41:35.460
Renee, that bit where Bashir's runabout was inexplicably left

898
00:41:35.460 --> 00:41:36.659
outside the asteroid.

899
00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:38.519
Let's make that up what point?

900
00:41:38.579 --> 00:41:38.820
Yeah.

901
00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:43.559
But they are clever enough writers to do that, to pick out details

902
00:41:43.619 --> 00:41:44.760
and to do something with them.

903
00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:49.920
So um, Odo infects them.

904
00:41:49.980 --> 00:41:55.980
Yes, so when Odo, um, morphed with the female shapeshifter at the

905
00:41:55.980 --> 00:41:56.820
end of series 4.

906
00:41:57.119 --> 00:41:59.639
So in the middle of series 4 is when it happened when he went to

907
00:41:59.639 --> 00:42:03.059
the Earth, and at the end of series 4, do you remember when Odo

908
00:42:03.059 --> 00:42:07.619
starts melting and they go back to he merges with her there and

909
00:42:07.619 --> 00:42:08.760
that's where he passed it on?

910
00:42:08.820 --> 00:42:11.460
And it's a slow release, obviously, because it didn't hit them

911
00:42:11.460 --> 00:42:12.599
until series 7.

912
00:42:12.659 --> 00:42:17.519
Yeah, it's a slow release poison, just to sort of wipe them out.

913
00:42:17.579 --> 00:42:17.820
Yeah.

914
00:42:17.880 --> 00:42:19.440
But what about him?

915
00:42:19.500 --> 00:42:20.400
Why doesn't he have it?

916
00:42:20.460 --> 00:42:22.920
Well, he starts to now, doesn't he?

917
00:42:22.980 --> 00:42:23.579
Oh, okay.

918
00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:28.380
So by tacking into the wind, he's, yeah, at the end of that, he's

919
00:42:28.380 --> 00:42:29.820
a horrible scabby miss.

920
00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:31.079
Oh, okay, all right.

921
00:42:31.139 --> 00:42:34.260
And that's why we have the episode in the last 10 episodes where

922
00:42:34.260 --> 00:42:38.940
Bashir and O'Brien go into Sloan's mind from Section 31 because it

923
00:42:38.940 --> 00:42:40.380
was Section 31 that did it.

924
00:42:40.500 --> 00:42:41.099
Oh, okay.

925
00:42:41.159 --> 00:42:45.539
To get the cure, which then Odo has to use for leverage with the

926
00:42:45.539 --> 00:42:47.760
female Shapeshifter in the last episode. very neat.

927
00:42:47.820 --> 00:42:48.539
Ah, there we go.

928
00:42:48.599 --> 00:42:51.539
So this is actually bringing the whole thing to an end.

929
00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:53.820
This is making it be a thing.

930
00:42:53.880 --> 00:42:59.340
But doing it in a way that it is sort of exploiting what's been.

931
00:42:59.400 --> 00:43:00.840
I just think that's really clever.

932
00:43:00.900 --> 00:43:06.059
But I think that that makes that's what makes this episode and

933
00:43:06.059 --> 00:43:07.019
this plot work.

934
00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:09.780
Isn't it that it introduces such a big thing?

935
00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:13.139
And this is the sort of thing that Star Trek the Next Generation

936
00:43:13.139 --> 00:43:15.900
did last week, isn't it, in reunion?

937
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:17.940
But this is just sort of par for the course.

938
00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:20.940
This is another day at the Office of Deep Space 9 that does this

939
00:43:20.940 --> 00:43:24.119
sort of stuff all the time and it really works. well, isn't it?

940
00:43:24.179 --> 00:43:30.059
So we've got Odo possibly he's going to be the last of his kind.

941
00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:34.260
There, that's what I was talking about there.

942
00:43:34.320 --> 00:43:38.460
The way he sort of just started collapsing towards the console, as

943
00:43:38.460 --> 00:43:40.260
he's learning that his people are dying.

944
00:43:40.380 --> 00:43:42.300
He can't do it with his face.

945
00:43:42.360 --> 00:43:45.059
He can do it with his eyes and he can do it with his body, but he

946
00:43:45.059 --> 00:43:46.800
just looks crumpled and beaten.

947
00:43:46.860 --> 00:43:51.059
It's a good actor that basically you take away their tools and

948
00:43:51.059 --> 00:43:52.320
they still convey the emotion.

949
00:43:52.860 --> 00:43:56.340
And he's a sort of slightly dumb idea though, isn't it?

950
00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:01.199
Well, I just love him being a shapeshifter anyway.

951
00:44:01.260 --> 00:44:03.300
And the fact that he's different is why he's had all these great

952
00:44:03.300 --> 00:44:03.900
storylines.

953
00:44:03.960 --> 00:44:04.619
Of course.

954
00:44:04.679 --> 00:44:05.579
Yeah, yeah.

955
00:44:05.639 --> 00:44:06.179
Yeah.

956
00:44:06.179 --> 00:44:08.099
Oh, I love these Jemadar ships.

957
00:44:08.159 --> 00:44:09.480
It's like a swarm of insects.

958
00:44:10.139 --> 00:44:12.539
That looks great there with the sun.

959
00:44:12.780 --> 00:44:16.980
Like the way that those those objects are sort of lit from

960
00:44:16.980 --> 00:44:17.460
behind.

961
00:44:17.579 --> 00:44:20.639
And you know, even though it's a tiny...

962
00:44:20.760 --> 00:44:23.699
It is a tiny bit sort of cartoony because that's where CGI was at

963
00:44:23.699 --> 00:44:24.000
this point.

964
00:44:24.059 --> 00:44:30.000
I think it's quite ambitious for the time. to do a sort of ice, ice

965
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:30.780
skate like this.

966
00:44:31.139 --> 00:44:33.480
Yeah, I think it looks really good.

967
00:44:33.539 --> 00:44:34.619
I think it looks great.

968
00:44:34.679 --> 00:44:39.900
We make fun of the, you know, the CG on Enterprise.

969
00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:42.360
I mean, that looks that looks great as it goes.

970
00:44:42.420 --> 00:44:44.940
I like how 2 of the rocks bounce off the runabout as well.

971
00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:48.480
Well, it's really low gravity, you know, it's pretty great.

972
00:44:48.599 --> 00:44:49.800
So awesome.

973
00:44:49.860 --> 00:44:54.960
I think you can get away with, you know, ice fragments in a way

974
00:44:54.960 --> 00:44:56.519
you can't with buildings and people.

975
00:44:56.579 --> 00:44:59.699
So when we watch those enterprise episodes, that it was, you know

976
00:44:59.699 --> 00:45:02.340
the outline of a person walking.

977
00:45:02.340 --> 00:45:04.079
Yeah, those cars are terrible.

978
00:45:04.139 --> 00:45:07.559
You can have an indistinct ice fragment.

979
00:45:07.619 --> 00:45:08.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

980
00:45:08.699 --> 00:45:11.159
Only a guard could think of such a thing.

981
00:45:11.219 --> 00:45:13.800
Is it a painting outside the window?

982
00:45:13.860 --> 00:45:15.000
No, it's keyed in.

983
00:45:15.059 --> 00:45:16.260
It's so camp.

984
00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:16.800
I love him.

985
00:45:17.639 --> 00:45:20.219
We become the ice.

986
00:45:22.500 --> 00:45:25.800
Oh, this is my favourite scene in the whole thing.

987
00:45:29.280 --> 00:45:31.380
It's so great.

988
00:45:31.619 --> 00:45:33.539
Scare his reaction.

989
00:45:33.539 --> 00:45:36.119
When she comes in and just goes, get it out of here.

990
00:45:37.559 --> 00:45:41.579
This is Julian's only scene as well, isn't it?

991
00:45:41.639 --> 00:45:43.139
Like, this is his proper saying.

992
00:45:43.199 --> 00:45:44.880
He's such a bitch. listen to him.

993
00:45:44.940 --> 00:45:47.820
Julian, I need help, not sarcism.

994
00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:56.699
He knows he's in he's in dire shit when the captain gets back.

995
00:45:56.699 --> 00:45:57.659
So what's this?

996
00:45:57.719 --> 00:46:00.119
Maybe Noggs decided to make a run for it.

997
00:46:00.179 --> 00:46:01.079
Why is he saying that?

998
00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:03.599
Oh, he's gonna paint it.

999
00:46:03.659 --> 00:46:04.800
That what a dick.

1000
00:46:06.599 --> 00:46:11.219
Now everyone's piling in the roof.

1001
00:46:11.280 --> 00:46:12.599
They do that look.

1002
00:46:12.659 --> 00:46:13.980
Everyone looks around at him.

1003
00:46:14.400 --> 00:46:18.900
I know Mars Hawk does exactly what Cisco did earlier, a thinly

1004
00:46:18.900 --> 00:46:20.219
veiled threat.

1005
00:46:20.280 --> 00:46:21.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1006
00:46:21.300 --> 00:46:23.219
You better get my wine back all right.

1007
00:46:26.280 --> 00:46:27.599
Did you see then?

1008
00:46:27.659 --> 00:46:31.079
It's a weird point to make, but as the door opened and Kira walked

1009
00:46:31.079 --> 00:46:31.320
in.

1010
00:46:31.380 --> 00:46:35.099
You could see the whole of ops behind her and there was loads of

1011
00:46:35.099 --> 00:46:35.760
people working.

1012
00:46:35.820 --> 00:46:37.559
Like they didn't have to do that.

1013
00:46:37.619 --> 00:46:41.039
No, no, we wouldn't have even thought twice about it.

1014
00:46:41.099 --> 00:46:43.559
They are pretty generous with the extras on this show.

1015
00:46:43.619 --> 00:46:47.340
Yeah, it feels like a, like a workplace, isn't it?

1016
00:46:47.400 --> 00:46:48.179
It does feel real.

1017
00:46:48.239 --> 00:46:53.340
Oh, now look at Wayne has a thermal blanket and his faith now, I

1018
00:46:53.340 --> 00:46:53.579
guess.

1019
00:46:56.820 --> 00:46:58.380
Oh, bless him.

1020
00:46:59.280 --> 00:47:01.679
So what's he what's he doing?

1021
00:47:01.739 --> 00:47:02.760
Oh, he can't breathe.

1022
00:47:03.719 --> 00:47:07.619
I was also cold, but just sort of hugging himself.

1023
00:47:07.679 --> 00:47:10.559
Would does does he suffer from cold?

1024
00:47:10.619 --> 00:47:11.340
I don't even know.

1025
00:47:11.400 --> 00:47:12.539
Did we...

1026
00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:13.019
Yeah, he does.

1027
00:47:13.079 --> 00:47:15.480
Do you remember that episode where, Oh, no, he was a human being

1028
00:47:15.480 --> 00:47:19.260
at that point when him and... were going up that mountain.

1029
00:47:19.380 --> 00:47:20.940
Right, right, right.

1030
00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:24.179
So he does remember what it's like to be cold and airless.

1031
00:47:24.239 --> 00:47:27.179
D, I love these ice fragments exploding like this.

1032
00:47:27.300 --> 00:47:29.159
It looks great, doesn't it?

1033
00:47:29.219 --> 00:47:31.739
It's really good We're definitely...

1034
00:47:31.739 --> 00:47:32.940
We're coming on, don't we?

1035
00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:34.619
We are coming on in the effect stakes.

1036
00:47:35.219 --> 00:47:39.539
And then the runabout literally zooms out of one of the

1037
00:47:39.539 --> 00:47:40.860
fragments.

1038
00:47:40.920 --> 00:47:42.719
Oh, it must be coming now.

1039
00:47:42.780 --> 00:47:44.099
It's so good.

1040
00:47:44.159 --> 00:47:44.579
Here we go.

1041
00:47:44.639 --> 00:47:46.739
Here we go.

1042
00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:47.760
Oh, awesome.

1043
00:47:47.820 --> 00:47:49.440
Straight past the camera.

1044
00:47:49.500 --> 00:47:50.579
Straight to the camera.

1045
00:47:50.760 --> 00:47:54.599
I think you remember when they did one little ship when the

1046
00:47:54.599 --> 00:47:56.760
runabout was miniatureized.

1047
00:47:56.820 --> 00:47:57.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1048
00:47:57.659 --> 00:47:58.860
Honey, I've shrunk the runabout.

1049
00:47:58.920 --> 00:48:01.559
Well, they did so many effect shots for the runabout there that

1050
00:48:01.559 --> 00:48:03.179
they had all of them to use again, you know?

1051
00:48:03.599 --> 00:48:05.880
It looks really good.

1052
00:48:05.940 --> 00:48:07.320
Come on. is great.

1053
00:48:08.039 --> 00:48:11.219
Oh, I did so rarely, though.

1054
00:48:11.280 --> 00:48:14.280
This little bit of flame in the runabout and he pulls up the

1055
00:48:14.280 --> 00:48:17.159
tiniest little fire extinguisher you've ever seen.

1056
00:48:18.119 --> 00:48:19.980
Why does he?

1057
00:48:20.340 --> 00:48:21.780
what's he doing?

1058
00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:24.300
I don't even understand why...

1059
00:48:24.360 --> 00:48:27.239
He knows now that they are actually going to blow them up, doesn't

1060
00:48:27.239 --> 00:48:27.420
he?

1061
00:48:27.480 --> 00:48:29.820
Yeah, only one thing he can do.

1062
00:48:29.880 --> 00:48:31.800
And that is...

1063
00:48:31.860 --> 00:48:34.380
Oh, you think he's, oh, that's why he says I leave only to serve

1064
00:48:34.380 --> 00:48:34.800
you.

1065
00:48:34.860 --> 00:48:37.260
It's not, I'll go and get the fire extinguisher.

1066
00:48:37.320 --> 00:48:39.059
I'm going to go and press my thing.

1067
00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:39.599
Yeah, totally.

1068
00:48:39.659 --> 00:48:40.260
He knows he's going to.

1069
00:48:40.320 --> 00:48:40.559
Wow.

1070
00:48:40.619 --> 00:48:43.019
So straight away afterwards, doesn't he?

1071
00:48:43.079 --> 00:48:44.280
He's like, call off the ships.

1072
00:48:44.340 --> 00:48:45.480
Yeah.

1073
00:48:45.539 --> 00:48:46.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

1074
00:48:48.179 --> 00:48:51.960
And, you know, this is a character we've we've only met in this

1075
00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:53.579
episode, technically.

1076
00:48:53.820 --> 00:48:58.320
And so for this to be as touching as it is, I think it's quite

1077
00:48:58.320 --> 00:48:59.340
quite a feat.

1078
00:48:59.460 --> 00:49:01.980
It's really good, isn't it?

1079
00:49:02.039 --> 00:49:04.679
I've saved your life and the dominions as well.

1080
00:49:04.739 --> 00:49:06.840
He still believes in the Dominion.

1081
00:49:06.900 --> 00:49:08.219
Yeah, of course he does.

1082
00:49:08.280 --> 00:49:10.679
I obey the founders in all things.

1083
00:49:10.739 --> 00:49:12.719
And I think that's the interesting thing too.

1084
00:49:12.780 --> 00:49:18.119
Because when it came to it, Like, he felt bad.

1085
00:49:18.179 --> 00:49:23.699
Wyun doesn't join in and you see Demar crowing over Wyun where he

1086
00:49:23.699 --> 00:49:27.360
gets Wyun to just kind of ignore the fact that they're gods and

1087
00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:29.579
just allow Odo to be killed.

1088
00:49:29.639 --> 00:49:34.320
And here, you know, like I believe this.

1089
00:49:34.380 --> 00:49:37.920
I sincerely regret any inconvenience we may have caused you.

1090
00:49:37.980 --> 00:49:39.900
Like, I actually believe that.

1091
00:49:39.960 --> 00:49:42.119
Please have a statement.

1092
00:49:42.119 --> 00:49:43.260
You would DS died in suicide.

1093
00:49:43.320 --> 00:49:45.960
The last episode we watch had a suicide in it. you remember?

1094
00:49:46.019 --> 00:49:47.340
which one was that?

1095
00:49:47.400 --> 00:49:49.199
She jumped off the promenade.

1096
00:49:49.260 --> 00:49:51.059
Oh, yes, was it that long ago?

1097
00:49:51.119 --> 00:49:52.199
Goodness me.

1098
00:49:52.380 --> 00:49:54.300
Oh, this.

1099
00:49:54.360 --> 00:49:55.619
Yeah, here we go.

1100
00:49:55.679 --> 00:49:56.280
Here we go.

1101
00:49:56.340 --> 00:49:57.059
Yeah, that.

1102
00:49:57.119 --> 00:49:58.320
I thought that that was cruel.

1103
00:49:58.440 --> 00:50:01.679
That thing too, where you activate your thing and then discover

1104
00:50:01.679 --> 00:50:03.840
actually, no, it's really brutally painful and you've just been

1105
00:50:03.840 --> 00:50:04.679
told that it's fine.

1106
00:50:04.739 --> 00:50:06.780
Tell me I haven't failed.

1107
00:50:06.840 --> 00:50:07.679
I've served you well.

1108
00:50:07.739 --> 00:50:09.179
Yes.

1109
00:50:09.179 --> 00:50:09.960
I was trying to say this.

1110
00:50:09.960 --> 00:50:13.380
You've got my gratitude, and then he just gives him it.

1111
00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:14.460
He gives him what he wants.

1112
00:50:14.519 --> 00:50:15.119
Yes.

1113
00:50:15.179 --> 00:50:16.500
Yeah.

1114
00:50:16.559 --> 00:50:17.519
Yeah.

1115
00:50:17.579 --> 00:50:22.260
And the look on Wayne's face as he lets out that last breath.

1116
00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:23.820
Now watch what Odo does here.

1117
00:50:23.880 --> 00:50:26.639
Watch what Odo does because all he can't really do anything.

1118
00:50:26.699 --> 00:50:30.840
He just kind of looks around because he doesn't quite know what to

1119
00:50:30.840 --> 00:50:31.139
do.

1120
00:50:31.260 --> 00:50:32.159
Like he looks over there.

1121
00:50:32.219 --> 00:50:35.400
He doesn't know what to do next. you know what I mean?

1122
00:50:35.460 --> 00:50:39.780
Like, it's like that's him, that's him emoting at the death of

1123
00:50:39.780 --> 00:50:41.639
this guy and really feeling it properly.

1124
00:50:41.699 --> 00:50:44.940
I do like how he goes to sort of touch him and then he can't quite

1125
00:50:44.940 --> 00:50:46.260
do it once he's dead.

1126
00:50:46.380 --> 00:50:46.860
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1127
00:50:46.920 --> 00:50:47.280
Yeah.

1128
00:50:47.340 --> 00:50:49.559
Oh no, back to the comedy now.

1129
00:50:49.619 --> 00:50:51.300
We're back. right.

1130
00:50:51.360 --> 00:50:52.920
I love this.

1131
00:50:52.980 --> 00:50:54.480
It's so adorable, of course.

1132
00:50:54.539 --> 00:50:56.880
And Noggs there.

1133
00:50:56.940 --> 00:50:58.440
There was never any problem.

1134
00:50:59.820 --> 00:51:01.980
Just wiping it clean.

1135
00:51:02.039 --> 00:51:05.639
I came in this morning and found Edson knock.

1136
00:51:08.039 --> 00:51:09.900
So funny.

1137
00:51:09.960 --> 00:51:12.059
So ridiculous.

1138
00:51:14.699 --> 00:51:19.380
Why does he always give truncated estimates of time?

1139
00:51:19.440 --> 00:51:21.840
He said, I could do it in 8 hours.

1140
00:51:21.900 --> 00:51:22.559
You've got two.

1141
00:51:22.619 --> 00:51:23.579
All right, I will.

1142
00:51:23.639 --> 00:51:23.880
Yeah.

1143
00:51:24.300 --> 00:51:29.579
Well, doesn't doesn't Scotty say in relics that he you have to

1144
00:51:29.579 --> 00:51:32.159
maintain your reputation as a miracle worker?

1145
00:51:32.219 --> 00:51:33.179
That's right, yeah.

1146
00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:35.460
Bloody.

1147
00:51:35.519 --> 00:51:37.079
Don't ever give them the correct time.

1148
00:51:41.099 --> 00:51:45.119
Never lost faith in the great material continuum.

1149
00:51:45.179 --> 00:51:46.739
The river will provide.

1150
00:51:46.800 --> 00:51:48.480
He says it.

1151
00:51:48.539 --> 00:51:50.039
He says that, doesn't he?

1152
00:51:50.639 --> 00:51:53.159
The war just got choppy again.

1153
00:51:54.239 --> 00:51:57.119
And he gets blood wine out of it.

1154
00:51:57.179 --> 00:51:58.980
The river is being generous.

1155
00:51:59.039 --> 00:52:02.579
You know, he had no blood wine, now he has blood wine because the

1156
00:52:02.579 --> 00:52:04.559
blood wine the river got hold of was even better.

1157
00:52:04.679 --> 00:52:06.480
I really like.

1158
00:52:06.539 --> 00:52:08.880
I think Michael Dawn can turn a comedy line.

1159
00:52:08.940 --> 00:52:11.579
I like it here where he jumps in and goes 2359.

1160
00:52:11.760 --> 00:52:12.780
A very good year.

1161
00:52:14.400 --> 00:52:18.119
It's like, I've only got 3 lines in this episode. make them

1162
00:52:18.119 --> 00:52:18.420
count.

1163
00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:18.780
All right?

1164
00:52:18.840 --> 00:52:19.679
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1165
00:52:21.360 --> 00:52:24.840
And now everyone knows about his cousin Gant.

1166
00:52:24.900 --> 00:52:27.059
You know, he's sending some things Gant's way.

1167
00:52:28.619 --> 00:52:30.780
Look at him going off.

1168
00:52:30.840 --> 00:52:33.059
He goes, how much does he want from him?

1169
00:52:33.119 --> 00:52:35.039
Yes, that's it.

1170
00:52:35.099 --> 00:52:38.400
He's completely on board with a great material continuum.

1171
00:52:38.460 --> 00:52:38.880
It's wonderful.

1172
00:52:38.940 --> 00:52:43.739
Now I do, I really like this last scene as well, because it is

1173
00:52:43.739 --> 00:52:48.360
drawing conclusion under the episode, whatever side wins in this

1174
00:52:48.360 --> 00:52:50.099
war, I'm going to lose.

1175
00:52:50.280 --> 00:52:55.260
But I also like too, and I was waiting for it to happen and I'm

1176
00:52:55.260 --> 00:52:59.159
glad it did, because Kira is religious as well.

1177
00:52:59.219 --> 00:53:03.059
And, you know, like it's all a little bit laboured and obvious and

1178
00:53:03.059 --> 00:53:05.940
stuff, but I'm glad that we went there.

1179
00:53:06.900 --> 00:53:10.260
I like, yeah, look, she's going to say it, I can't prove it, but

1180
00:53:10.260 --> 00:53:11.400
then I like that, yeah.

1181
00:53:11.460 --> 00:53:14.340
Yeah, I think all of that's just a little bit obvious.

1182
00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:17.400
But, but it's, it's good.

1183
00:53:17.460 --> 00:53:19.739
You know, this is the 2 of them explaining the plot to each other

1184
00:53:19.739 --> 00:53:21.059
at the end of the episode.

1185
00:53:22.260 --> 00:53:25.139
But yes, that...

1186
00:53:25.139 --> 00:53:28.860
Well, I like that news when it comes to the end of the war, we

1187
00:53:28.860 --> 00:53:32.760
actually managed to duck this because he manages to save these

1188
00:53:32.760 --> 00:53:35.880
people and the Federation remains intact.

1189
00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:37.019
Yeah.

1190
00:53:37.079 --> 00:53:37.619
Yeah.

1191
00:53:37.739 --> 00:53:40.320
But he's he's instrumental.

1192
00:53:40.380 --> 00:53:42.179
If he wasn't there, that wouldn't have happened.

1193
00:53:42.239 --> 00:53:46.380
That last attack on Cardassian would have taken place and the

1194
00:53:46.380 --> 00:53:48.300
casualties would have been appalling.

1195
00:53:48.360 --> 00:53:53.460
Yeah, but I think I think that their decision, you know, to make

1196
00:53:53.460 --> 00:53:58.380
him central to the resolution of the war is the right decision to

1197
00:53:58.380 --> 00:53:59.280
make, isn't it?

1198
00:53:59.340 --> 00:54:02.820
Because he's the founder, and again, that's never the intention

1199
00:54:02.820 --> 00:54:04.320
going in, is it?

1200
00:54:04.380 --> 00:54:07.860
Like they don't know who he is anymore than we do in series one?

1201
00:54:07.920 --> 00:54:10.739
And then they just decide to make him...

1202
00:54:10.800 --> 00:54:13.199
Oh my god, wouldn't it be great if...

1203
00:54:13.260 --> 00:54:14.039
What episode's that?

1204
00:54:14.099 --> 00:54:17.400
That's the beginning of series 3, isn't it?

1205
00:54:17.460 --> 00:54:18.659
search where they find them.

1206
00:54:18.780 --> 00:54:23.159
Oh, no, but isn't there, isn't there, um, that he goes into the

1207
00:54:23.159 --> 00:54:27.599
Gamma Quadrant by himself and there's a little girl and a man.

1208
00:54:27.960 --> 00:54:29.039
Oh, that series one.

1209
00:54:29.099 --> 00:54:31.199
Yeah, yeah. vortex.

1210
00:54:31.260 --> 00:54:35.579
Vortex, but that sort of lays the groundwork, doesn't it?

1211
00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:37.380
Yes, definitely.

1212
00:54:37.440 --> 00:54:38.280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1213
00:54:38.340 --> 00:54:41.099
And then, yeah, and then two, you get the Ferengi episode where

1214
00:54:41.099 --> 00:54:43.920
they just mentioned the Dominion, then there's a few mentions of

1215
00:54:43.920 --> 00:54:46.559
what the Dominion have done in the Gamma Quadrant, and then in the

1216
00:54:46.559 --> 00:54:49.679
search, they sort of put it all together. that makes it happen.

1217
00:54:49.739 --> 00:54:51.840
And that's the season 3 opener, is it?

1218
00:54:51.900 --> 00:54:53.400
Yes, yeah.

1219
00:54:53.460 --> 00:54:53.940
Yeah.

1220
00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:55.139
Very good it is too.

1221
00:54:55.199 --> 00:55:01.079
Look how much we talked about previous episodes of DS9 and how

1222
00:55:01.079 --> 00:55:02.880
many episodes to come in that.

1223
00:55:03.480 --> 00:55:07.980
Because this is basically a point between A and C, you know.

1224
00:55:08.039 --> 00:55:08.699
Yeah.

1225
00:55:08.880 --> 00:55:13.260
A very good episode in its own right, but we don't talk about any

1226
00:55:13.260 --> 00:55:15.300
other 90s show on this level.

1227
00:55:15.360 --> 00:55:17.940
None of them are working on this level.

1228
00:55:18.000 --> 00:55:19.679
I really like that.

1229
00:55:19.739 --> 00:55:21.840
There's so much substance to this.

1230
00:55:21.900 --> 00:55:24.539
You know, like, and sometimes you say, sometimes it's a bit

1231
00:55:24.539 --> 00:55:27.900
obvious, but there's there's so many sort of plates in the air

1232
00:55:27.900 --> 00:55:28.500
spinning.

1233
00:55:28.559 --> 00:55:31.559
And they just, they keep adding to it as well.

1234
00:55:31.679 --> 00:55:35.039
I just think it's at this point in DS9's run.

1235
00:55:35.099 --> 00:55:37.380
It's the best of 90s trek.

1236
00:55:37.440 --> 00:55:38.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1237
00:55:39.000 --> 00:55:39.719
I think so too.

1238
00:55:39.780 --> 00:55:43.260
And it is just the fact that they've decided to just go for it.

1239
00:55:43.380 --> 00:55:48.780
And, uh, I guess the only thing I'm disappointed by at the end is

1240
00:55:48.780 --> 00:55:50.880
the Ducart and Kai Winn thing.

1241
00:55:50.940 --> 00:55:55.860
Although when we did the changing face of evil, they were pretty

1242
00:55:55.860 --> 00:55:56.760
entertaining.

1243
00:55:56.820 --> 00:55:59.099
So maybe they did make the right decision there.

1244
00:55:59.159 --> 00:55:59.940
What is that?

1245
00:55:59.940 --> 00:56:01.860
What about Soulbore?

1246
00:56:01.920 --> 00:56:03.599
I'll take care of the body.

1247
00:56:04.440 --> 00:56:08.039
That was pretty fun, actually, but I think about it.

1248
00:56:08.099 --> 00:56:09.539
So maybe it does land.

1249
00:56:09.599 --> 00:56:10.800
Maybe they don't drop a plane.

1250
00:56:10.860 --> 00:56:12.539
You know, you're right.

1251
00:56:12.599 --> 00:56:15.119
Where there's so much nuance elsewhere.

1252
00:56:15.179 --> 00:56:16.559
It's so fucking obvious.

1253
00:56:16.619 --> 00:56:18.119
I mean, it's come.

1254
00:56:18.179 --> 00:56:18.960
So it's very funny.

1255
00:56:19.019 --> 00:56:21.659
She has that bit where she dies where she goes, you know, then

1256
00:56:21.659 --> 00:56:23.099
I'll stop you.

1257
00:56:23.159 --> 00:56:25.860
And she picks up the book to throw it in the flames and he just

1258
00:56:25.860 --> 00:56:29.400
goes, are you still here and kills them?

1259
00:56:29.400 --> 00:56:31.619
Brilliant moment.

1260
00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:36.239
But it's a very sort of 1970s camp horror.

1261
00:56:36.300 --> 00:56:39.599
It's ridiculous compared to everything else that's gone.

1262
00:56:39.659 --> 00:56:42.719
I mean, you follow that up with a scene with Garak talking about

1263
00:56:42.719 --> 00:56:46.619
the losses on Cardassia in the aftermath of the war, and tonally

1264
00:56:46.619 --> 00:56:48.480
it's a bit jarring.

1265
00:56:48.539 --> 00:56:52.079
I guess, but, you know, like Deep State Stone operates on all

1266
00:56:52.079 --> 00:56:55.440
sorts of tonal levels and stuff and like we saw there where we

1267
00:56:55.440 --> 00:57:00.960
were sort of cutting from the terrible death of Wave 6 and then

1268
00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:04.260
you know, we cut back to something preposterous happening on in

1269
00:57:04.260 --> 00:57:05.280
the B plot.

1270
00:57:05.400 --> 00:57:07.199
So I think that's probably okay.

1271
00:57:07.260 --> 00:57:11.579
But there is real fun to be had, isn't there watching them

1272
00:57:11.579 --> 00:57:16.559
discover what their show is about and find things to do with what

1273
00:57:16.559 --> 00:57:19.679
they've already set up and that's the real fun of it, I think.

1274
00:57:19.739 --> 00:57:22.260
Two last things I'd like to say.

1275
00:57:22.320 --> 00:57:27.300
One is, I think this is a very good episode of Deep Space 9.

1276
00:57:27.360 --> 00:57:30.960
I don't think it's one of the all-time highlights and it just goes

1277
00:57:30.960 --> 00:57:33.480
to show how high the batting average is at this point.

1278
00:57:33.539 --> 00:57:39.900
And two, this just goes to show what a loss to the acting industry

1279
00:57:39.900 --> 00:57:43.800
Renee Aubichonoir, and Aaron Eisenberg were, because they, I was

1280
00:57:43.800 --> 00:57:44.280
brilliant.

1281
00:57:44.340 --> 00:57:49.440
They were both savvy calls to hire those two. and they both are

1282
00:57:49.440 --> 00:57:54.539
under layers and layers of layers for 7 years.

1283
00:57:56.579 --> 00:58:00.480
I mean, by all accounts, uh, Renae tore off that mask in the last

1284
00:58:00.480 --> 00:58:03.780
episode and threw it at I remember.

1285
00:58:03.840 --> 00:58:04.679
I'm done.

1286
00:58:05.699 --> 00:58:07.980
He's got it up on his wall.

1287
00:58:08.039 --> 00:58:11.579
He's on his wall. hideous. torn off mask.

1288
00:58:11.639 --> 00:58:16.739
But despite enduring that indignity for 7 years or 2 of them, they

1289
00:58:16.739 --> 00:58:21.059
both took sort of one note characters in the pilot and did

1290
00:58:21.059 --> 00:58:22.500
incredible things with them.

1291
00:58:22.619 --> 00:58:27.300
So yeah, so bravo to Renee and Aaron, and that this episode

1292
00:58:27.300 --> 00:58:30.360
showcases both of them in a terrific way.

1293
00:58:30.420 --> 00:58:34.980
It's a thing that we kind of overlook that it's not just the

1294
00:58:34.980 --> 00:58:40.619
writers discovering new material or new things in what they've

1295
00:58:40.619 --> 00:58:45.480
already written and shot, but it's also discovering things that

1296
00:58:45.480 --> 00:58:49.679
actors are good at as well and giving them the opportunity to do

1297
00:58:49.679 --> 00:58:50.340
those things.

1298
00:58:50.400 --> 00:58:54.780
And that charm that Aaron Eisenberg has means that he works in

1299
00:58:54.780 --> 00:58:58.019
that B plot, even though Jake's not around.

1300
00:58:58.079 --> 00:59:03.300
And in fact, watching him and O'Brien together is really, really

1301
00:59:03.300 --> 00:59:04.559
enjoyable.

1302
00:59:04.559 --> 00:59:07.739
And then, of course, I think we knew going in that Renee was

1303
00:59:07.739 --> 00:59:12.059
incredible and he absolutely proves it again and again.

1304
00:59:12.119 --> 00:59:15.360
Then what they do is they turn it on his head and they surprise

1305
00:59:15.360 --> 00:59:15.900
you.

1306
00:59:15.960 --> 00:59:19.139
So then they make, I don't know, Renee, the umpire, and take me

1307
00:59:19.139 --> 00:59:21.300
out to the hola street. this mad comedy episode.

1308
00:59:21.360 --> 00:59:22.739
And it's hilarious.

1309
00:59:22.739 --> 00:59:24.599
And then they give Aaron Eisenberg.

1310
00:59:24.659 --> 00:59:27.659
It's only a paper moon where he has to break down at the end of

1311
00:59:27.659 --> 00:59:27.960
the episode.

1312
00:59:28.019 --> 00:59:30.659
And it's one of the most moving scenes you've ever seen.

1313
00:59:30.719 --> 00:59:34.260
They were they were incredibly lucky with the actors they they got

1314
00:59:34.260 --> 00:59:35.099
for DS9.

1315
00:59:35.280 --> 00:59:38.820
I think the material is always good, but the acting is always

1316
00:59:38.820 --> 00:59:39.179
great.

1317
00:59:39.239 --> 00:59:40.199
Yeah.

1318
00:59:46.380 --> 00:59:50.219
All right, it's time for us to pick what we're going to be

1319
00:59:50.219 --> 00:59:56.579
watching next time, and it's my turn on the randomiser, and I have

1320
00:59:56.579 --> 00:59:59.699
chosen the following series.

1321
01:00:00.239 --> 01:00:05.159
Star Trek, the original series, Star Trek, the Next Generation.

1322
01:00:05.280 --> 01:00:09.780
Star Trek Voyager, and Star Trek Enterprise.

1323
01:00:09.840 --> 01:00:12.840
Oh, there's a good chance we'll get a dog there.

1324
01:00:12.900 --> 01:00:14.099
A dud for sure.

1325
01:00:14.159 --> 01:00:15.059
All right.

1326
01:00:15.119 --> 01:00:17.460
So let's press the button and see.

1327
01:00:17.519 --> 01:00:20.579
I don't want people to start thinking we really like Star Trek, you

1328
01:00:20.579 --> 01:00:21.840
know, we've been so positive lately.

1329
01:00:21.900 --> 01:00:22.619
Yeah, I know.

1330
01:00:22.679 --> 01:00:23.940
We've been ridiculous.

1331
01:00:24.000 --> 01:00:28.079
So this is your random Star Trek Voyager episode.

1332
01:00:28.139 --> 01:00:30.780
It's an episode that features the best Robert.

1333
01:00:30.840 --> 01:00:34.800
It's Tinker Tanner, Dr. Spy.

1334
01:00:34.920 --> 01:00:36.420
Is it terrible?

1335
01:00:36.480 --> 01:00:37.019
right?

1336
01:00:37.619 --> 01:00:39.420
It's wonderful.

1337
01:00:39.480 --> 01:00:43.559
You know, that's got the bit at the beginning where he sings, um

1338
01:00:43.559 --> 01:00:45.000
Tuvok.

1339
01:00:45.059 --> 01:00:48.300
I understand you are a Vulcan man.

1340
01:00:48.360 --> 01:00:51.599
You have just gone without 47 years about.

1341
01:00:54.719 --> 01:00:56.699
It's far too good.

1342
01:00:56.760 --> 01:00:57.480
Press it again.

1343
01:00:57.539 --> 01:00:58.320
Such a good.

1344
01:00:58.380 --> 01:00:58.739
Okay.

1345
01:00:58.800 --> 01:00:59.340
All right.

1346
01:00:59.400 --> 01:01:02.039
Trouble is, we have got to get through these doubts, you know.

1347
01:01:02.099 --> 01:01:04.019
Yeah, I know. this is another one.

1348
01:01:04.079 --> 01:01:07.019
It's your random Star Trek Voyager episode is one.

1349
01:01:07.380 --> 01:01:09.840
Season 4 episode 25.

1350
01:01:10.500 --> 01:01:15.059
Tom Solensky gave that 5 stars, you know, that was the 1st one he

1351
01:01:15.059 --> 01:01:15.960
gave 5 stars to.

1352
01:01:16.019 --> 01:01:20.099
I watched it reasonably recently.

1353
01:01:20.159 --> 01:01:23.519
Certainly after we'd done the killing game, I think, because it's

1354
01:01:23.519 --> 01:01:27.900
the guy from the killing game, the real Nazi in the killing game

1355
01:01:27.900 --> 01:01:29.460
who's not a hirogen.

1356
01:01:29.519 --> 01:01:31.079
It's a bit of nothing, isn't it?

1357
01:01:31.139 --> 01:01:32.579
It is a bit nothing.

1358
01:01:32.639 --> 01:01:33.960
I'll puss it again.

1359
01:01:34.019 --> 01:01:34.380
Cool.

1360
01:01:34.440 --> 01:01:35.400
We could get worse than that.

1361
01:01:36.539 --> 01:01:38.699
I think it has be this one.

1362
01:01:38.760 --> 01:01:39.539
Is it terrible?

1363
01:01:39.659 --> 01:01:41.579
It's another Voyager.

1364
01:01:41.880 --> 01:01:44.039
No-ish.

1365
01:01:44.880 --> 01:01:49.739
So it's season one of Star Trek Voyager.

1366
01:01:49.800 --> 01:01:51.480
This could go either way.

1367
01:01:51.539 --> 01:01:53.460
Episode 14.

1368
01:01:53.460 --> 01:01:56.039
Faces.

1369
01:01:56.760 --> 01:01:59.099
It's B'lana Split.

1370
01:01:59.159 --> 01:02:01.260
It's a banana split.

1371
01:02:02.219 --> 01:02:03.900
Do you know what?

1372
01:02:03.960 --> 01:02:06.780
I love this when I 1st saw it, because I loved all the horror.

1373
01:02:06.840 --> 01:02:08.039
Yeah.

1374
01:02:08.099 --> 01:02:09.599
It's a pretty nasty episode.

1375
01:02:09.659 --> 01:02:11.280
But...

1376
01:02:11.340 --> 01:02:15.179
There's definitely there are some action choices in this episode.

1377
01:02:15.239 --> 01:02:17.280
Yeah I think we should do that.

1378
01:02:17.340 --> 01:02:18.539
Yeah, why not?

1379
01:02:18.599 --> 01:02:19.860
It's an early banana.

1380
01:02:19.920 --> 01:02:24.059
It's doing the sort of, you know, yeah, the reluctant Klingon.

1381
01:02:24.119 --> 01:02:25.800
We haven't done the Videans, yeah.

1382
01:02:25.860 --> 01:02:29.159
And it's one that we always had a nickname for.

1383
01:02:29.219 --> 01:02:31.739
So I think that we definitely.

1384
01:02:31.800 --> 01:02:35.699
I saw a time where Voyager was sort of half-heartedly attempting

1385
01:02:35.699 --> 01:02:37.980
to carve out an area of space for a little while.

1386
01:02:38.039 --> 01:02:41.159
You know, and this is one of those points, which is all right

1387
01:02:41.159 --> 01:02:41.400
nice.

1388
01:02:41.460 --> 01:02:44.039
We do like early voyager, quite a bit, actually.

1389
01:02:44.099 --> 01:02:45.000
I think we do.

1390
01:02:45.059 --> 01:02:46.739
Yeah, I think let's do it.

1391
01:02:46.800 --> 01:02:49.980
I mean, we've done a couple of ones, you know, but we've done

1392
01:02:49.980 --> 01:02:51.539
state of flux and this.

1393
01:02:51.599 --> 01:02:52.739
We've done all the best ones.

1394
01:02:52.800 --> 01:02:55.739
That means we're leaving all the dregs till the end.

1395
01:02:55.800 --> 01:02:57.179
That's all right.

1396
01:02:57.239 --> 01:02:57.840
That's all right.

1397
01:02:57.900 --> 01:02:59.699
All right.

1398
01:02:59.699 --> 01:03:01.199
There's no shortage of them.

1399
01:03:01.260 --> 01:03:03.179
Bring it on, banana split.

1400
01:03:13.019 --> 01:03:17.039
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1401
01:03:17.039 --> 01:03:18.239
and Nathan Bottomley.

1402
01:03:18.300 --> 01:03:21.659
We're online at untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find

1403
01:03:21.659 --> 01:03:24.300
subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1404
01:03:24.360 --> 01:03:28.440
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran and the theme was composed

1405
01:03:28.440 --> 01:03:29.639
by Cameron Lamb.

1406
01:03:29.699 --> 01:03:33.840
This episode was recorded on the 16th of January 2024 and released

1407
01:03:33.840 --> 01:03:35.099
on the 19th of January.

1408
01:03:35.159 --> 01:03:39.059
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Voyager, Faces.

1409
01:03:54.480 --> 01:03:55.980
Yeah.

1410
01:03:55.980 --> 01:03:56.639
Yeah.

1411
01:03:57.179 --> 01:03:59.880
Are they better than the cast of Voyager?

1412
01:03:59.940 --> 01:04:01.380
Voyager has...

1413
01:04:01.380 --> 01:04:04.139
As a whole.

1414
01:04:04.199 --> 01:04:04.800
Sure.

1415
01:04:04.860 --> 01:04:07.559
Sorry, are we still talking in the episode now?

1416
01:04:07.619 --> 01:04:08.340
No.

1417
01:04:08.400 --> 01:04:09.179
Okay.

1418
01:04:11.099 --> 01:04:15.599
No, because Voyager Voyager definitely has...

1419
01:04:15.659 --> 01:04:16.920
Yes.

1420
01:04:16.980 --> 01:04:21.300
And to prove they're not as good as the DS9, they are sort of

1421
01:04:21.300 --> 01:04:23.579
levels of competence with the robbers.

1422
01:04:23.639 --> 01:04:24.360
Yeah.

1423
01:04:24.420 --> 01:04:26.460
But I mean, you know, Picado is great.

1424
01:04:26.579 --> 01:04:27.420
Kate's great.

1425
01:04:27.480 --> 01:04:29.460
Ethan Phillips is great.

1426
01:04:29.519 --> 01:04:30.960
Oh, sure.

1427
01:04:30.960 --> 01:04:32.639
Roxanne Dawson is great.

1428
01:04:32.699 --> 01:04:34.739
You know, who else?

1429
01:04:34.800 --> 01:04:38.519
You couldn't survive 7 years with an entirely terrible cast.

1430
01:04:38.579 --> 01:04:40.199
I mean it just wouldn't have gone on, would it?

1431
01:04:40.260 --> 01:04:41.159
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1432
01:04:41.219 --> 01:04:44.519
What happened is we kept seeing glimmers of hope when it was a

1433
01:04:44.519 --> 01:04:46.860
Jayway episode or a 7 episode?

1434
01:04:46.980 --> 01:04:47.579
that's right.

1435
01:04:47.639 --> 01:04:51.659
A Torres episode, like, okay, well, we can endure Harry King.

1436
01:04:51.659 --> 01:04:52.500
Tom Paris.

1437
01:04:52.500 --> 01:04:56.880
Jakotay or Naomi Wildman episodes to get to the good ones.

1438
01:04:56.940 --> 01:04:58.199
Oh my god.

1439
01:04:58.260 --> 01:04:59.579
Naomi wild one.

1440
01:04:59.639 --> 01:05:02.280
Those children grow up so fast on the starships.

1441
01:05:02.340 --> 01:05:06.059
I think it might be like a space thing. relativity thing.

1442
01:05:06.119 --> 01:05:09.059
It's a good choice, though, isn't it?

1443
01:05:09.119 --> 01:05:11.940
Why would you have kids when they're in danger every week?

1444
01:05:12.059 --> 01:05:15.119
It never makes any sense having kids on the ship.

1445
01:05:15.179 --> 01:05:17.099
No, it was a dumb idea.

1446
01:05:17.159 --> 01:05:19.019
I don't know what the point was.

1447
01:05:19.079 --> 01:05:24.179
I thought they it would open up new plots, you know. why they make

1448
01:05:24.179 --> 01:05:25.679
a great point of it in deadlock.

1449
01:05:25.739 --> 01:05:28.380
Do you remember when Naomi Wildman is born?

1450
01:05:28.440 --> 01:05:34.320
Obviously, Voyager splits into 2 and in the other timeline, Naomi

1451
01:05:34.320 --> 01:05:38.639
Wildman exists, but just for about 10 minutes, Samantha Wildman

1452
01:05:38.639 --> 01:05:41.760
during a terrible action sequence, loses the baby.

1453
01:05:41.880 --> 01:05:43.019
Oh, okay.

1454
01:05:43.079 --> 01:05:47.039
She dies and I thought, my god, they're really showing how

1455
01:05:47.039 --> 01:05:49.980
dangerous it is. families living on this ship.

1456
01:05:50.039 --> 01:05:53.760
But then, of course, forgery is duplicated and yeah, yeah.

1457
01:05:53.820 --> 01:05:55.440
There's a live.

1458
01:05:56.039 --> 01:05:58.320
Well she gets taken over to the one that she was killed in.

1459
01:05:58.380 --> 01:05:59.880
So that's how they get around there.

1460
01:05:59.940 --> 01:06:02.099
It's a big reset, but it makes the point.

1461
01:06:02.159 --> 01:06:04.199
Yeah, that's a good one, that one.

1462
01:06:04.320 --> 01:06:09.900
The thing that I like about it is that you think the ship, you

1463
01:06:09.900 --> 01:06:12.900
think you know which ship is going to survive because it's the one

1464
01:06:12.900 --> 01:06:16.260
that isn't sort of just completely trashed, you know, and about to

1465
01:06:16.260 --> 01:06:19.800
be destroyed, and then it gets invaded by the Medians, doesn't

1466
01:06:19.800 --> 01:06:19.920
it?

1467
01:06:19.980 --> 01:06:20.579
Is that what happens?

1468
01:06:20.699 --> 01:06:25.139
And then, and everyone gets killed and so the crap, mind you, the

1469
01:06:25.139 --> 01:06:28.619
crappy ship is back to being spick and span the following week, but

1470
01:06:28.619 --> 01:06:30.780
it wouldn't be Voyager if it wasn't.

1471
01:06:30.840 --> 01:06:32.519
The thing I love about that.

1472
01:06:32.579 --> 01:06:34.440
I think it's the sort of thing you were talking about before, you

1473
01:06:34.440 --> 01:06:37.980
know, where they can't get the eyelines right with the screens.

1474
01:06:38.039 --> 01:06:41.400
Well, in that one, you've got 2 Kate Mulgrews, and they just can't

1475
01:06:41.400 --> 01:06:42.360
position them properly.

1476
01:06:42.420 --> 01:06:45.300
So they're apparently having a dialogue, but one of them is always

1477
01:06:45.300 --> 01:06:46.380
looking sort of off camera.

1478
01:06:46.440 --> 01:06:48.599
It's really bad.

1479
01:06:48.719 --> 01:06:53.099
And Jonathan Frakes nails it on his like 3rd outing or something.

1480
01:06:53.159 --> 01:06:56.820
Like it's, uh, Jonathan Franks nailed it on his 1st outing, the

1481
01:06:56.820 --> 01:06:57.300
offspring.

1482
01:06:57.360 --> 01:06:58.380
Yeah, so good.

1483
01:06:58.440 --> 01:07:00.420
But I meant the eyeliners thing.

1484
01:07:00.480 --> 01:07:04.199
You know, the moment where where Duras is looking at wharf walking

1485
01:07:04.199 --> 01:07:05.579
up the bridge.

1486
01:07:05.639 --> 01:07:08.639
Well, you remember I said he's an actor's direct say, you know, as

1487
01:07:08.639 --> 01:07:11.219
an actor, he has to look at another actor.

1488
01:07:11.280 --> 01:07:13.199
So maybe in the direction he's like, right, okay.

1489
01:07:13.260 --> 01:07:16.079
I'll make it like it's 2 actors looking at each other.

1490
01:07:16.139 --> 01:07:17.820
Oh, it's the thing. yeah that's right.

1491
01:07:17.880 --> 01:07:20.579
It's the thing that I pointed out where the reaction shot of

1492
01:07:20.579 --> 01:07:24.420
Michael Dawn, we get before we see what he's seeing, and you see

1493
01:07:24.420 --> 01:07:27.420
him looking at the transporter pad, and then you see him look down

1494
01:07:27.420 --> 01:07:32.039
at something short on the transporter pad, and then you can't, you

1495
01:07:32.039 --> 01:07:36.480
know, and it's like Riker letting Dawn tell that before we

1496
01:07:36.480 --> 01:07:38.099
actually see it, which I thought was pretty good.

1497
01:07:38.159 --> 01:07:42.059
And then that brilliant shot of them going down the corridor from

1498
01:07:42.059 --> 01:07:45.480
Alexander's point of view, where looming up at walls.

1499
01:07:46.199 --> 01:07:47.519
So much fun.

1500
01:07:47.579 --> 01:07:49.199
That's a great episode too.

1501
01:07:49.559 --> 01:07:52.139
Yeah, we've been too positive.

1502
01:07:52.199 --> 01:07:54.480
We should press the button and get something terrible.

1503
01:07:54.539 --> 01:07:57.119
I've kind of forgot that we have to press the button.

1504
01:07:57.239 --> 01:07:57.780
Where's my?

1505
01:07:57.840 --> 01:07:59.400
Oh, wait, I'll get my iPad.

1506
01:08:05.699 --> 01:08:08.219
That was just my iPad case.

1507
01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:11.699
I realise it is entirely your choice.

1508
01:08:11.760 --> 01:08:14.760
I do wonder if we should stick to the 90s, though, because we've

1509
01:08:14.760 --> 01:08:17.100
got so many 90s episodes to get through still.

1510
01:08:17.159 --> 01:08:18.239
Oh yeah, I know.

1511
01:08:19.319 --> 01:08:20.760
No.

1512
01:08:20.819 --> 01:08:21.720
Okay.

1513
01:08:22.979 --> 01:08:25.739
Probably done with else in my pocket.

1514
01:08:29.640 --> 01:08:37.800
I rewrote my bio on the, um, untitled Star Trek Project page.

1515
01:08:39.239 --> 01:08:45.659
To mention all of the additional podcasts. that I'm now doing

1516
01:08:45.659 --> 01:08:47.100
quite a list.

1517
01:08:50.220 --> 01:08:51.659
Okay.

1518
01:08:52.739 --> 01:08:54.840
It's so positive.

1519
01:08:54.899 --> 01:08:56.520
Let's hope it gets something really awful.

1520
01:08:57.300 --> 01:08:59.819
Series one, TNG.

1521
01:09:00.479 --> 01:09:03.840
Series 3, TOS. something like that.

1522
01:09:04.680 --> 01:09:06.119
Okay.

1523
01:09:06.479 --> 01:09:10.439
All right, it's time for us to pick what we're going to be

1524
01:09:10.439 --> 01:09:12.300
watching next time.