WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 23:19:55

1
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Hey, Joe. Hi.

2
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So, we've come off a run of fairly mediocre episodes culminating, obviously, in threshold, and essentially there was really only one way for us to go, which was up.

3
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And we've had some success watching the original series.

4
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Wow, a better success.

5
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Quite a bit.

6
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I love some of them.

7
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Yeah, absolutely.

8
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But I somehow feel that we haven't gone up quite as far as I would have hoped.

9
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I'll put this in perspective for our audience.

10
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I believe this is the 1st episode of Untitled Star Trek project that you have ever watched and commentated on with alcohol.

11
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Ah, yes, yes.

12
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No, I've been driven to drink by this one.

13
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I'm drinking a small, a small amount of champagne just to take the edge off the recording here.

14
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That's what I'm here for.

15
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So it's whom gods destroy.

16
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It's from the Freddie Freiburger era of Star Trek.

17
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The most popular season of Star Trek ever.

18
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Yeah, well, you see, I have another podcast at the moment called Startling Barbara Bain, which is about Space 1999.

19
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It's still the best podcast name I've ever heard.

20
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Yep, no, thanks, James.

21
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It's really good.

22
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And it gets taken off Sylvia Anderson in the 2nd series.

23
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And it goes to Freddie Freiberger and he does basically the same thing to Space 1999 that he seems to be doing to Star Trek.

24
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And, you know, Plato's stepchildren.

25
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Yeah, I have a feeling that Plato's stepchildren is a lot like this as well.

26
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Like there's just sort of prolonged scenes of people being compelled to behave weirdly for no particular reason.

27
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And there's the way to eat it is as well.

28
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You know, the one with the dreadful hippies that come along.

29
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Just long dialogue scenes of people behaving in a particularly bizarre way and then it ends.

30
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Yeah, like there's a real sort of sense of waiting out the clock here.

31
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And part of the problem, I think, is too, that it's using something, which is the idea of criminal insanity as a sort of centrepiece of it.

32
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But criminal insanity is really literally something made up that villains can suffer from, you know, so that they have delusions of grandeur.

33
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And so this doesn't have anything profound to say about mental illness because it just sort of takes that as a kind of, I don't know, dressing or something, like it's not about mental illness.

34
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It's about a weird sort of, you know, narrative.

35
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Or he compares himself to Hitler.

36
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Yeah, you know, all Napoleon that we've known.

37
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Yeah, that's that's where we end up.

38
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Yeah, he's on a planet called Elba 2.

39
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So that sort of that thing where there's a mad person who thinks they're Julius Caesar or a mad person who thinks they're Napoleon.

40
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Like that's a sort of famous and particularly sort of mid-20th century TV thing, but it's not real.

41
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So what we have is a bunch of antagonists who just behave oddly and don't seem to have any sort of clear motives and who change their sort of mercurial, they change their attitude from moment to moment.

42
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Their motives change from scene to scene.

43
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I swear to God.

44
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Oh, even within scenes.

45
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And in a way, that's kind of fun.

46
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There is some fun to be had to.

47
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Yeah, I think so.

48
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Yeah.

49
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I mean, that is sort of...

50
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A couple of the reversals, a couple of the twists, yeah, the story are quite fun.

51
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But it's really long and really kind of thin and when it does actually talk about mental illness, it's such a sort of, you know, I don't know, it's like the ladybird book, you know, the big book of mental illness.

52
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. stupid.

53
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Like, it's so stupid.

54
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You're in trouble with men's wellness on TV because TV is sensational.

55
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So they've got a sensationalizer in some way.

56
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And then TV science fiction is way sensational.

57
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So they're going to way over sensationalising in this.

58
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And so there, that's where we end up.

59
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Mental illness equates wanting to take over the entire galaxy.

60
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Yeah, exactly.

61
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And and there's a problem with that.

62
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That's not a particularly progressive position to take.

63
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And one of the things that we have always done when we're telling stories is we've found groups of people who we can other, who we can cast as villains, and you know there have been gay villains, and sometimes we've enjoyed those.

64
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Um, but that's not good enough anymore.

65
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They've been black villains, they've been disabled villains.

66
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They've been disfigured villains, and they've been mentally ill villains.

67
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And it's something that I think we should be uncomfortable about.

68
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But, you know, it's a feature of 60s TV.

69
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I mean, we have women villains in the final episode of Star Trek the original series.

70
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Yeah.

71
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So, so, you know, the history of the show is not as progressive as we like to think it is and that's okay.

72
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Well, the inference seems to be on the whole that mental illness has been stamped out, isn't it, though, with their science and their enlightened attitudes, that these problems don't occur.

73
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But like when we return to this world, what we talked of might in statistical probabilities in DS9, it's a completely different kettler fish.

74
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They are trying to take over the universe.

75
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They're 4 people.

76
00:06:08.819 --> 00:06:28.560
They've had their sort of DNA mucks around with, and so that's affected their mental health, and you've got one who's a mute, one who's very childlike, one who's a bit like Xana Troy, a bit of a vamp, and one who is, you'd say psychotic, but he's just overly emotional, and sort of a bit unpredictable with it.

77
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And it's a lot more interesting than this, because it's a lot subtler than this, you know?

78
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But it's also about something.

79
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Like, they're trying to do something, and it's about Julian's relationship with them as someone who is also genetically altered, and it's about the Dominion War, and there's something going on, where here, there's just a lot of people standing in the room talking.

80
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You know straight away from this.

81
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You're on the back foot because they beam down and go, well, we've got this wonder drug that will cure all mental illness.

82
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So you just give it to them and they'll be all right.

83
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Okay.

84
00:07:03.300 --> 00:07:05.699
Well, that's not going to go right, is it?

85
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Like we've got 50 minutes to fill.

86
00:07:07.379 --> 00:07:12.779
But also, can you imagine we've developed this medicine that cures all physical illness?

87
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Like the whole thing is so stupid.

88
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Like it's such a, you know, it's written in crayon.

89
00:07:18.360 --> 00:07:20.459
Well, I think it probably was.

90
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I said to you that the idea of the asylum with the patients in charge, that's not a bad premise.

91
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That could be quite scary.

92
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If we weren't just, you know, having green women dancing around and a man camping it up in the middle of a set and everyone dressed up like they're from historical dramas and I don't know what is going on for half this episode.

93
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If it was if it was a genuinely scary, like American horror story series 2, I think it was.

94
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That was absolutely chilling.

95
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All set within an asylum and there was a point where the patients were in charge and terrible things were happening to people to the point where I was like, do I want to watch this anymore?

96
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This is a bit too nasty for me.

97
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But they were never going to do that here.

98
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So why approach this premise?

99
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if you're just going to sort of camp about with it and and not just not do anything scary with it.

100
00:08:09.420 --> 00:08:16.199
But I also think there are lapses in tone and things that I just didn't enjoy hearing or watching.

101
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Some of the things that Garth says, particularly to Martha, like how poorly she's treated by him and how little we care.

102
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Like, I don't know.

103
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I believe he called her, he called her a stupid cat. cow, I know.

104
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I've got to believe it.

105
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I had to message you in.

106
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I don't believe that.

107
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There's a line in 60s Street.

108
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I feel such an English...

109
00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:41.580
It does feel like a very English thing to say, doesn't it?

110
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Stupid cow, you know?

111
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

112
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It doesn't sound right in an American accent.

113
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No, no.

114
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Well, should we watch this thing?

115
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Well, we got 50 long minutes of it to get through.

116
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We do, we do.

117
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We don't want to run.

118
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I mean, I even went onto a memory alpha, and usually in the original series because they venerate that on memory alpha.

119
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It's packed full of quotes and there was only really data about this episode rather than any kind of opinion.

120
00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:10.259
I mean, I was desperate to know, what's the a fella's name who plays the the villain in this.

121
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His name is Steve Innard.

122
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I don't even know how to say that.

123
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Steve Inert, let's say.

124
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There's very little that's inert about him in the episode.

125
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I just wanted a quote from him to see what on earth he was going for in this episode.

126
00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:31.679
Because at some points, he's bordering on naturalistic.

127
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At other points, he's so far over the top, he's somewhere in a pantomime.

128
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From one scene to another, I just don't know.

129
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What are you getting out of this character?

130
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Or is it, he's just reading what's on the page?

131
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Whatever they're giving him and he's just playing it as is.

132
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Maybe.

133
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Which case I form the writer and because the writer's got no fruit line with this episode.

134
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No, that's it.

135
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They've given up.

136
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A bit.

137
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Yeah, I think so.

138
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And the fact that this is the sort of shit that happens more and more in series 3, I gather, is telling.

139
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And certainly I'm more familiar with series 2 of Space 1999 and I know that that's miserable.

140
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So, all right, what do you think?

141
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Let's do it, yeah.

142
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Yeah, I'll count us in.

143
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As long as you're prepared for me to start punching the floor like a completely mad man halfway through this episode, like Kirk does.

144
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I'm counting on it.

145
00:10:23.399 --> 00:10:24.840
All right, here goes.

146
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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

147
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You know, I've got to say, I did really like the teaser.

148
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So I liked the reversal with the teaser, them coming down offering the drug.

149
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You know, hello, Captain Kerr.

150
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Welcome to the Mental Asylum, and then her Marcel is already a bit Gaga saying, you know, don't trust him.

151
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It's not the, you know, the leader of the stain asylum and then him taking over.

152
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And I thought, okay.

153
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That is really going to be fun.

154
00:10:56.879 --> 00:10:59.940
But unfortunately, I think that's where the plot stops.

155
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Yeah, when the title music starts.

156
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We don't really get any proper question after that.

157
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No.

158
00:11:04.500 --> 00:11:06.120
No, that's part of the problem, isn't it?

159
00:11:06.179 --> 00:11:07.500
But I did think that that was pretty good.

160
00:11:07.559 --> 00:11:18.600
Now, Marta is played by Yvonne Craig, and we'll talk more about her later, but this guy is called Key Luke, and I'm not sure that I'm pronouncing that correctly.

161
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He has a long career.

162
00:11:22.379 --> 00:11:25.860
So he's an Asian-American actor.

163
00:11:25.919 --> 00:11:40.799
He was briefly considered for the part of Obi-Wan Kenobi and for Dr. Sung in brothers, and he is Mr. Wing in Gremlins, who they buy the Gremlins.

164
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Of course he is.

165
00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:42.299
You know what?

166
00:11:42.360 --> 00:11:45.179
There was, I mean, I figured I was being racist.

167
00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:48.240
I was like, I recognised his face face from somewhere.

168
00:11:48.299 --> 00:11:53.039
No, no, that's and so he's got like contacting gremlins, hasn't he?

169
00:11:53.100 --> 00:11:54.659
like weird sort of white eyes.

170
00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:55.320
Yeah, that's right.

171
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Yeah.

172
00:11:55.799 --> 00:12:03.480
But I think it's actually quite a good choice and a choice that another show might not make is just have him be a guy.

173
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Do you know what I mean?

174
00:12:04.860 --> 00:12:09.659
The way that it doesn't matter that Sulu's Japanese and he's on the bridge of the Enterprise.

175
00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:14.460
This guy's Chinese and he's just a guy who works in this asylum.

176
00:12:14.519 --> 00:12:23.639
And I, I thought that that was pretty good and I, I was a bit sorry not to see more of him because I think he's really good in this opening playing the 2 different parts as well.

177
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Did you hear that though?

178
00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:27.960
You could hear Captain Picard saying that.

179
00:12:28.019 --> 00:12:30.779
It's his, uh, was it Garf of Izar?

180
00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:35.940
His exploits were required reading when I was at Starfleet Academy, yeah?

181
00:12:36.059 --> 00:12:40.379
So here's a von Craig, and her makeup is not super successful.

182
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So there are a couple of times where they just shine a green light on her so that she looks more...

183
00:12:47.039 --> 00:12:48.419
No, on her.

184
00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:50.159
They're just shining a green light on her.

185
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Okay.

186
00:12:51.299 --> 00:13:00.120
Well, we need to talk about the Iran's, because we did talk about them the other week, didn't we, about how it wasn't until lower decks that they started to get a bit of a break.

187
00:13:00.179 --> 00:13:04.980
Yeah, so he or she's just someone to have sex with a woman to be mistreated.

188
00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:09.539
And in a sort of upsetting way, I think. wasn't it?

189
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Yeah, yeah.

190
00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:10.679
Yeah.

191
00:13:10.740 --> 00:13:12.960
I mean, I laughed about the exploding green woman.

192
00:13:13.019 --> 00:13:14.519
I know, it's so great.

193
00:13:14.580 --> 00:13:16.799
What the hell is that Adoran wearing?

194
00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:18.179
I know, it's awesome, isn't it?

195
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He a pimp.

196
00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:23.759
The way he's got, he's got that sort of, it's like a, it's like a pink dressing gown with a real fluffy collar.

197
00:13:23.879 --> 00:13:25.679
But it looks like he's wearing a feather boa.

198
00:13:25.740 --> 00:13:27.720
Yeah, what do you think of the Tellrite in this one?

199
00:13:28.379 --> 00:13:30.779
Well, just as shit is normal.

200
00:13:30.840 --> 00:13:32.460
No, I think it's different.

201
00:13:32.519 --> 00:13:43.259
It's quite a different makeup than the normal Tellrite that you get on enterprise or, you know, journey to Babel, which that, I reckon that was terrifying to children.

202
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I reckon him suspended in that cell, frighten the hell out of a whole generation of kids.

203
00:13:49.320 --> 00:13:52.799
And this was a point where I was like, oh, God, we're in trouble.

204
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When she, all these weirdos start going around now.

205
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I was like, oh, this is going to be our camp.

206
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It's going to be crap.

207
00:13:59.460 --> 00:14:00.480
It is going to be crap.

208
00:14:00.539 --> 00:14:04.139
What, did you see the special effects shot of the 2 governors?

209
00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:06.059
He went outside to sell an email, yeah.

210
00:14:06.120 --> 00:14:07.379
Yeah, there's 2 good ones.

211
00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:11.039
They do the same thing with Kirk later as well, which looks very good.

212
00:14:11.100 --> 00:14:15.000
But then I'm never sure of these episodes now, whether it's been in harm.

213
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No, no, no.

214
00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:17.519
They could do that in the 60s.

215
00:14:17.580 --> 00:14:19.860
They do it in bewitched really successfully.

216
00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:26.820
And once again, tell you that I do always get past the original Star Trek theme music.

217
00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:28.259
I just don't like it.

218
00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:28.980
That's immoral.

219
00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:43.259
Oddly, during these opening credits, Spock is shot, and we don't see it in the teaser, and we go back to the action and he's being dragged out of the room after being shot.

220
00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:44.820
Ah.

221
00:14:44.820 --> 00:14:46.919
Which seems odd.

222
00:14:46.980 --> 00:14:48.899
I don't know why they're quite doing that, but there we go.

223
00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:51.299
There's not enough stock in this, is there?

224
00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:54.059
wanting him to come back every time they took him away.

225
00:14:54.120 --> 00:14:56.580
He is pretty great whenever he's in it, though.

226
00:14:56.639 --> 00:14:59.100
He is one of the highlights of the episode.

227
00:14:59.220 --> 00:15:03.840
It enlivens every time, even if it's just touching a false field or raising an eyebrow.

228
00:15:03.899 --> 00:15:04.740
He's pretty great.

229
00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:05.759
He's pretty great.

230
00:15:05.820 --> 00:15:06.240
Oh, God.

231
00:15:06.299 --> 00:15:08.159
Hey, look, look, they could just drag him off.

232
00:15:08.220 --> 00:15:10.679
He's been shot while we were watching those pretty pictures.

233
00:15:10.740 --> 00:15:14.279
I don't know what happened was going on, you know, while we were watching the movie.

234
00:15:14.340 --> 00:15:15.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

235
00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:16.500
Now, you know about the rest.

236
00:15:16.500 --> 00:15:18.120
I like to buy Herb Wallenstein.

237
00:15:18.179 --> 00:15:19.500
You got a lot to ask for, Herb.

238
00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:19.860
Okay.

239
00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:21.720
Rain your actors in.

240
00:15:21.779 --> 00:15:28.620
So, so Yvonne Craig is Batgirl in Batman.

241
00:15:29.220 --> 00:15:32.340
Ishape, my God, you've done some research on this.

242
00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:43.200
Yeah, well, no, kind of, I kind of knew her name, and I think probably Richard, my friend who's a big fan of vintage TV, might have mentioned her as well.

243
00:15:43.259 --> 00:15:46.259
And I had seen a Batman with her in it.

244
00:15:46.379 --> 00:15:57.179
Um, And she is a dancer, which is one of the reasons why she's cast, but I think this is a pretty thankless part and kind of an embarrassing part.

245
00:15:57.240 --> 00:15:59.700
Yeah, I think that's terrifying, don't you?

246
00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:02.340
If you're a little kid watching that and the guy's peeing.

247
00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:03.240
Well, the guy suspended.

248
00:16:03.299 --> 00:16:03.480
Yeah.

249
00:16:03.539 --> 00:16:04.919
Yeah, yeah. great. don't know how.

250
00:16:04.980 --> 00:16:07.379
But we need a bit more of that in this.

251
00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:08.820
Yeah, you know?

252
00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:10.200
Well, I don't know.

253
00:16:10.200 --> 00:16:16.740
Setting up a room with a throne and yeah, the most scary part of the whole episode is when she blows up out on the planet.

254
00:16:16.860 --> 00:16:17.759
Yeah.

255
00:16:17.820 --> 00:16:20.220
Yeah, but again, I'm trying to work out.

256
00:16:20.279 --> 00:16:22.259
We'll get there, but who that is...

257
00:16:22.259 --> 00:16:23.039
No, it's worth remembering.

258
00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:25.320
When we rolled this episode on the randomiser.

259
00:16:25.379 --> 00:16:27.299
That was the one thing you remember about this.

260
00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:28.080
Yeah.

261
00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:29.639
So something lodged in your brain there.

262
00:16:29.700 --> 00:16:31.559
Yeah, exploiting green woman.

263
00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:34.139
Unforgettable.

264
00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:39.360
Now, you and I have discussed off mic about William Shatner.

265
00:16:39.419 --> 00:16:43.620
Oh, I think he's giving us a little bit of welly.

266
00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:47.519
Not enough, but you think he's zoned out now, don't you?

267
00:16:47.580 --> 00:16:53.279
Well, I, no, no, no, there are bits here that I think he's genuinely funny and he plays really well.

268
00:16:53.340 --> 00:17:09.059
And I think particularly those things around Marta because, um, you know, he, you know, one of the things that shoots me about this. is, of course, the man when he's mad and a megalomaniac.

269
00:17:09.059 --> 00:17:13.920
He wants power, but the woman is obviously just someone who wants a lot of sex.

270
00:17:13.980 --> 00:17:15.240
She wants Captain Kirk.

271
00:17:15.299 --> 00:17:15.900
Yeah, yeah.

272
00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:16.559
Yeah, yeah.

273
00:17:16.619 --> 00:17:18.900
Shat, I read that and was like, yeah, this is a good script.

274
00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:29.940
And then... like Shatner going off here with her and being like doing the sort of genial thing that Garth has been doing, I think, is actually pretty good.

275
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:44.940
But in a minute it's going to go to hell, I think. ask why in this episode and this episode only Captain Kirk has decided to have, you know, a secret code word before he's beamed up back onto the ship.

276
00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:47.460
Because it's never happened before and it never happens again.

277
00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:49.740
But it just so happens to be vital to this plot.

278
00:17:49.799 --> 00:17:52.079
Yeah, it's stupid, isn't it?

279
00:17:52.140 --> 00:18:01.740
And I think probably a line of dialogue would have been okay, but I think a line of dialogue before we hear it would have ruined it.

280
00:18:01.859 --> 00:18:04.619
Like, I do actually think that that's quite interesting.

281
00:18:04.740 --> 00:18:05.880
Do you know what I mean?

282
00:18:05.940 --> 00:18:13.380
Like, it's not a bad thing, and it gives Garth something that he needs to get in order to get control of the ship.

283
00:18:13.500 --> 00:18:21.359
So I don't think that's bad, but I don't know why no one upstairs on the ship has anything explained to them about why they've chosen to do that this time.

284
00:18:21.420 --> 00:18:23.339
Like, do they fear something?

285
00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:24.539
Is there a special?

286
00:18:24.599 --> 00:18:26.579
You could, like you say, you've secure it in a long place.

287
00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:27.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

288
00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:32.099
These people are, you know, known criminals in case anything goes wrong.

289
00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:37.619
I want you to know this is me in case they use a voice coder or something like that, you know, to pick up.

290
00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:46.559
But, but, it would be better to learn that after we see this after we see Queen Queen to Queen's Civil 3 for the 1st time.

291
00:18:46.619 --> 00:18:54.900
Um, you know, that this, we should be finding out at the same time as Garf does that they've done this, I think.

292
00:18:54.960 --> 00:19:06.900
It is a peculiar thing in season 3 of the original series that they do ask William Shatner to go deliver the most operatic insanity that you've ever seen.

293
00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:08.640
I mean, he's doing it right now.

294
00:19:08.700 --> 00:19:10.680
He's tearing up the set.

295
00:19:10.740 --> 00:19:16.500
He's throwing the extras about, and in a minute he gets on his knees and starts pounding the floor like a toddler.

296
00:19:16.559 --> 00:19:18.180
Steve doesn't do any of that.

297
00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:19.559
Now watch this.

298
00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:23.339
Watch this, all right. goes down to the floor, right?

299
00:19:23.400 --> 00:19:24.839
and start smashing the floor.

300
00:19:24.900 --> 00:19:33.539
Then he changes and then the ring falls off his finger and rolls across the floor, right?

301
00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:36.900
So the ring that we later see just comes off and he just leaves it.

302
00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:43.319
Then he gets up, he makes an attempt to put the jacket back on, but he fails.

303
00:19:43.380 --> 00:19:43.920
What?

304
00:19:43.980 --> 00:19:47.339
He's trying to find the sleeve, but he can't manage it.

305
00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:55.200
And so for half of the time, for the rest of the episode, he just doesn't have his arm in that sleeve.

306
00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:57.779
Oh, I didn't even notice that.

307
00:19:57.839 --> 00:19:58.500
Yeah, yeah.

308
00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:00.299
I actually thought for a 2nd maybe I'm wrong.

309
00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:02.519
Maybe it doesn't have a sleeve, but it does.

310
00:20:02.579 --> 00:20:04.319
You see it flopping around the back of a thing.

311
00:20:04.380 --> 00:20:04.740
Wow.

312
00:20:04.740 --> 00:20:07.619
It's a continuity announcer was like, no, it's happening.

313
00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:11.400
It's like, oh, we couldn't have done it while we're here.

314
00:20:11.460 --> 00:20:13.019
Does he wear the ring again?

315
00:20:13.079 --> 00:20:13.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

316
00:20:13.980 --> 00:20:14.880
You see the ring in the shot.

317
00:20:14.940 --> 00:20:16.559
Yeah, yeah, he picks it up.

318
00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:25.019
So, so this stuff on board the Enterprise is astoundingly boring and pointless.

319
00:20:25.079 --> 00:20:27.539
Which knows the last time we did a TOS.

320
00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:31.619
Do you remember when we kept going back to the ship, the one where spot was down on the planet?

321
00:20:31.740 --> 00:20:33.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

322
00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:36.539
And like they just don't know what to do with it.

323
00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:41.160
Like in Star Trek, the Next Generation, there would be... do you remember the arsenal of freedom?

324
00:20:41.220 --> 00:20:43.019
Like, it's a terrible...

325
00:20:43.079 --> 00:20:46.500
Unfortunately, I do, of series I do, with John Lovett's in it.

326
00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:52.140
But the things that are attacking them down on the planet are also attacking the ship up top.

327
00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:53.460
So there's 2 things to do.

328
00:20:53.579 --> 00:20:55.920
But here they don't have that.

329
00:20:55.980 --> 00:21:01.619
I can't get over this Telleride because he just looks like a pig-nosed guy and not like a Telleride.

330
00:21:01.619 --> 00:21:05.099
And he just reminds me of Pog from Prodigy.

331
00:21:05.160 --> 00:21:08.279
He looks much more like Pog than any other teller I'd ever has.

332
00:21:08.339 --> 00:21:15.720
I feel like in the 90s shows, the ensemble, the chemistry between the ensemble is so much stronger.

333
00:21:15.779 --> 00:21:27.240
It's so much more sort of flat structure in terms of a show that when you do go back to the ship for little subplots like this, you know, always searching for them or whatever, they can always dip in with like cute moments.

334
00:21:27.299 --> 00:21:38.039
But I feel like so much of TOS is surrounded by Kirk McCoy and Spock. that when they're not around, the rest of the characters don't really know how to react without them.

335
00:21:38.099 --> 00:21:41.819
So they just they just wind up sort of functionally doing their jobs.

336
00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:42.720
Yeah, that's it.

337
00:21:42.779 --> 00:21:44.819
All they're doing is providing information to us.

338
00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:48.359
There's no no one wants to do anything different from anyone else.

339
00:21:48.420 --> 00:21:49.680
There's no conflict.

340
00:21:49.740 --> 00:21:55.380
Do you remember, um, The Corbamite maneuver where that lieutenant loses his shit.

341
00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:56.579
Is it the lieutenant?

342
00:21:56.640 --> 00:22:04.980
Yeah, you know, and this, it's about something, like something happens on the ship, but they can't think of a 2nd thing to happen.

343
00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:09.119
And this is a pretty thin thing that they've thought of to happen down here on the planet.

344
00:22:09.240 --> 00:22:11.160
You can't ask us to think of 2 plots.

345
00:22:11.220 --> 00:22:13.920
Good grief. can barely think of half a plot for this one.

346
00:22:14.339 --> 00:22:18.839
But very quickly, going back to William Shatner losing his shit.

347
00:22:19.859 --> 00:22:28.440
There was that very bizarre sequence in the one with the, you know, the kids. what's that called with the evil kids coming onto the ship.

348
00:22:28.619 --> 00:22:30.180
Do you remember?

349
00:22:30.180 --> 00:22:34.200
It's like the 2nd or 3rd episode of the season and they're sort of altering people's minds.

350
00:22:34.259 --> 00:22:35.700
They look into the camera and all to be.

351
00:22:35.700 --> 00:22:36.119
Okay.

352
00:22:36.180 --> 00:22:45.779
Kurt goes into the, um, The lift shaft and he's like, my God, I'm so scared and he starts like pounding the...

353
00:22:45.779 --> 00:22:48.059
And then in the last episode...

354
00:22:48.059 --> 00:22:48.720
Like, what's this?

355
00:22:48.779 --> 00:22:49.440
What are we watching?

356
00:22:49.500 --> 00:22:50.819
What do we...

357
00:22:50.819 --> 00:22:53.160
It's doing weird...

358
00:22:53.220 --> 00:22:57.660
It's the Andorian doing a wheelbarrow with the fucking Tellerite.

359
00:22:57.720 --> 00:22:59.940
It's the least entertaining thing I can imagine.

360
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:04.319
They're all roaring as if it's really fun. spread looks quite nice.

361
00:23:04.380 --> 00:23:08.400
Yeah, the spread does look nice You've got like nice looking cakes there, covered in fruits.

362
00:23:08.460 --> 00:23:16.799
And then at the end of the season, do you remember when the woman captain goes inside Kirk's head and then he starts going bizarre and mad in that.

363
00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:18.299
It's almost like that's it.

364
00:23:18.359 --> 00:23:21.420
After full setting this year, we can't think of anything else to do.

365
00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:24.059
Let shit, man.

366
00:23:24.119 --> 00:23:24.839
Shit now.

367
00:23:24.900 --> 00:23:25.980
Oh, no.

368
00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:27.420
Let's Shatner hit the fan.

369
00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:34.319
It's very odd. very bad But everyone else on the planet is really weird looking.

370
00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:36.240
Yeah, yeah, you stupid cow.

371
00:23:36.420 --> 00:23:38.640
He says you're repulsive.

372
00:23:38.700 --> 00:23:39.480
I know.

373
00:23:39.539 --> 00:23:41.039
That stuff is not nice.

374
00:23:41.099 --> 00:23:42.539
Like, I just don't enjoy that.

375
00:23:42.599 --> 00:23:43.619
I don't think it's great.

376
00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:51.960
I love the one character thing that I love about her is that she wrote that sonnet by Shakespeare and she just says, yes, I know he wrote it years ago.

377
00:23:52.019 --> 00:23:52.799
I wrote it this morning.

378
00:23:52.859 --> 00:23:56.640
And then she quotes another thing, like Longfellow or something, and she claims to have written that.

379
00:23:56.700 --> 00:23:57.119
I love that.

380
00:23:57.180 --> 00:23:58.559
That's my favourite character.

381
00:23:58.619 --> 00:24:02.640
There was something with more depth going on there. and then I realised, no, that's just her being weird.

382
00:24:02.700 --> 00:24:04.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

383
00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:07.740
And so now we've got the green light on her again while she dances.

384
00:24:08.279 --> 00:24:10.380
This goes on forever.

385
00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:11.460
Yeah, yeah.

386
00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:18.180
I started looking, you know, like, you can tell I'm gay because I'm not enchanted by a green naked woman on the screen doing, you know, gyrating.

387
00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:19.500
I'm looking at my watch gown.

388
00:24:19.559 --> 00:24:21.359
She hasn't started dancing yet.

389
00:24:21.420 --> 00:24:23.460
She's doing Shakespeare first, which is pretty great.

390
00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:26.220
You think this is sort of sexy, though, when she starts dancing.

391
00:24:26.339 --> 00:24:27.420
Oh, yeah, yeah.

392
00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:27.720
No.

393
00:24:27.779 --> 00:24:31.380
And I think that that's the same reason that we had the belly dancer in Wolf in the Fold.

394
00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:36.119
Like, I think we have sexy lady dancing because it's reasonably cheap to do.

395
00:24:36.180 --> 00:24:37.680
It's like the fist fights.

396
00:24:37.740 --> 00:24:41.759
It's very unfortunate that in long shot, the light is not on her.

397
00:24:41.819 --> 00:24:45.299
So she just looks a completely different colour when we're in long shot.

398
00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:47.160
Yeah, now it's on her again.

399
00:24:47.220 --> 00:24:49.619
Yeah, I may kill you with my bare hands.

400
00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:50.700
Like, that's not fun.

401
00:24:50.759 --> 00:24:51.240
What's that?

402
00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:53.940
And then the way he changes here, actually.

403
00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:55.259
Actually, she's a superb dancer.

404
00:24:55.319 --> 00:24:56.339
No, where'd you die?

405
00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:57.660
like, I'll pay that.

406
00:24:57.720 --> 00:24:58.319
Do you know what I mean?

407
00:24:58.380 --> 00:25:04.140
That sort of mercurial thing where he goes from threatening to kill her to saying how lovely she is and will you dance for our guess?

408
00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:07.200
These ugly people extras.

409
00:25:07.259 --> 00:25:08.880
Oh, if that was not a request.

410
00:25:09.180 --> 00:25:11.700
So she is just his plaything, isn't it?

411
00:25:11.819 --> 00:25:12.180
Yeah.

412
00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:17.279
And but Shatner reacting to her dancing is actually pretty great.

413
00:25:18.119 --> 00:25:21.299
We'll get there, but yeah, what the fuck is this?

414
00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:22.380
It just goes on forever.

415
00:25:22.500 --> 00:25:25.319
So you know that...

416
00:25:25.319 --> 00:25:27.240
Part of the audience is supposed to be appealing to me.

417
00:25:27.240 --> 00:25:28.500
No.

418
00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:30.599
Yes, yeah, this marvellous, isn't she, Captain?

419
00:25:30.660 --> 00:25:31.859
He goes, yeah, yeah, incredible.

420
00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:33.240
You know, like that's pretty good.

421
00:25:33.299 --> 00:25:36.240
And this, what is this?

422
00:25:36.299 --> 00:25:44.039
So Spock goes, I found it rather nostalgic because children in Vulcan nursery schools do this sexy dance, apparently.

423
00:25:44.099 --> 00:25:45.359
They don't do it as well.

424
00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:47.400
They're not as coordinated.

425
00:25:47.460 --> 00:25:50.700
Yeah, but Vulcan children do sexy dancing in nursery school.

426
00:25:50.759 --> 00:25:52.019
It's really...

427
00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:54.119
Have we seen that in Strange New Worlds?

428
00:25:54.180 --> 00:26:00.960
No, I'm sure there must have been a scene with Michael in one of the education pods doing a sexy dance. in discovery.

429
00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:04.799
I say something very dodgy about Vulcan society.

430
00:26:04.859 --> 00:26:08.039
There are scrunchy dressed children doing sexy dollses.

431
00:26:08.099 --> 00:26:08.460
Yeah.

432
00:26:08.519 --> 00:26:10.140
Like it's kind of strange.

433
00:26:10.140 --> 00:26:16.259
It's a funny thing for Spock to say, but it's not a line that's been very well thought through, I think, is the problem.

434
00:26:16.380 --> 00:26:20.160
You know, this wasn't shown on the BBC till the 1990s?

435
00:26:20.279 --> 00:26:21.480
Why?

436
00:26:21.539 --> 00:26:32.039
I had originally heard it was because of the sexy dads, but that seems unlikely, but I think it is, um, just how unpleasant it is was the problem.

437
00:26:32.099 --> 00:26:34.740
And it wouldn't have been banned in like...

438
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:35.400
Is it unpleasant?

439
00:26:35.460 --> 00:26:39.180
I know she's treated terribly, but women are generally treated terribly in a...

440
00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:39.779
In Star Trek.

441
00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:40.619
Yeah, that's true.

442
00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:49.559
But, you know, there's the stabby thing and then there's blowing her up and there's all the verbal threats and stuff like that and there's the toy.

443
00:26:49.619 --> 00:26:50.279
So is this edgy?

444
00:26:50.339 --> 00:26:52.019
I've missed the point.

445
00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:53.160
Is this Andrew?

446
00:26:53.220 --> 00:26:54.059
don't think it's edgy.

447
00:26:54.119 --> 00:27:03.180
I think it was an odd decision because, you know, you've got to think that Americans have got to be more puritanic a lot about what goes on TV than the Brits are, but here we are.

448
00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:09.059
Why are all of these characters dressed up like they've come from historical reenactments?

449
00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:16.559
So, do you know where you've seen um, where you've seen Garth's outfit before?

450
00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:21.000
Oh, have we seen it already doing untitled Star Trek project?

451
00:27:21.059 --> 00:27:22.859
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

452
00:27:23.700 --> 00:27:32.339
So it was in the last episode we did in Galileo 7, Commissioner Ferris, is wearing the same outfit.

453
00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:33.539
Oh, wow.

454
00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:34.200
Yeah.

455
00:27:34.259 --> 00:27:40.980
Not the, not the, you know, the fur coat, obviously, but what's underneath it is just Commissioner Ferris's outfit.

456
00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:43.920
And I think it is used in another episode for someone else as well.

457
00:27:44.039 --> 00:27:46.259
Now you've pointed it out.

458
00:27:46.259 --> 00:27:49.140
All I can see is, oh, I'm not inside his sleep.

459
00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:51.000
All I can see is that.

460
00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:53.519
Oh, bless him.

461
00:27:53.579 --> 00:27:57.720
And so we nearly have a political discussion happening here, right?

462
00:27:57.779 --> 00:27:58.559
Nearly.

463
00:27:58.559 --> 00:27:59.400
Nearly.

464
00:27:59.460 --> 00:28:04.259
And there is that moment where, and I've seen it.

465
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:17.400
Do you remember there used to be like a long, I think the long video trailer when Star Trek The Next Generation was being released and they showed stuff from all of the films and from this show and from Star Trek The Next Generation?

466
00:28:17.460 --> 00:28:30.359
And the captain says, it's a dream that sent us among the stars, blah, blah, blah, and made me and Spock Brothers, and like I was very familiar with that because it was on that trailer on the videos back in the 90s or whatever.

467
00:28:30.420 --> 00:28:32.220
But like there's that.

468
00:28:32.279 --> 00:28:33.240
Do you know what I mean?

469
00:28:33.299 --> 00:28:40.920
And he seems to be fascist and he calls, like he just used the phrase decadent weakness to describe the federation's morality.

470
00:28:40.980 --> 00:28:42.119
I don't know.

471
00:28:42.180 --> 00:28:44.460
Well, he says what, he allowed all this planet.

472
00:28:44.519 --> 00:28:46.980
They they cured, you know, they made him better.

473
00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:48.900
He offered them the galaxy.

474
00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:50.220
They rejected him.

475
00:28:50.279 --> 00:28:52.859
So that signed all their death swat.

476
00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:53.339
I mean what?

477
00:28:53.400 --> 00:28:55.319
Yeah, no, so he went mad.

478
00:28:55.680 --> 00:28:58.680
And later on we'll discover he's not. for that.

479
00:28:58.740 --> 00:29:01.440
No, that was as a result of him going mad.

480
00:29:01.859 --> 00:29:03.420
Right.

481
00:29:03.420 --> 00:29:04.259
Yeah, yeah.

482
00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:06.359
I'm not sure it justifies anything.

483
00:29:06.359 --> 00:29:07.079
No, no.

484
00:29:07.140 --> 00:29:09.720
No, because it's just like, what does mad mean?

485
00:29:09.779 --> 00:29:15.180
A line I love is Spock going, yeah, how could you, a Starfleet captain?

486
00:29:15.180 --> 00:29:18.299
Thinking that your crew would do that.

487
00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:19.740
See, there's the ring.

488
00:29:19.799 --> 00:29:22.680
There's the ring that fell off his that fell off his...

489
00:29:22.740 --> 00:29:25.079
There really is the inference, isn't it?

490
00:29:25.140 --> 00:29:30.839
That the start, if you are in command of a starship, then you are the best of the best, you know, beyond corruption.

491
00:29:30.900 --> 00:29:36.839
Well, by the time we get to the 90s, it's almost a given that if you're in command of a starship and you're not Captain Picard.

492
00:29:36.900 --> 00:29:38.880
You're not the police, psycho.

493
00:29:38.940 --> 00:29:39.900
Well, yeah, yeah.

494
00:29:39.960 --> 00:29:41.519
Or if you're an admiral, you know.

495
00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:43.619
A dream that became reality and spread among the stars.

496
00:29:43.680 --> 00:29:46.079
You know, a dream that made me and Spock Brothers.

497
00:29:46.140 --> 00:29:54.299
And I love Spock's response to this because it's kind of unexpected because he's being asked a question about a metaphor and it's not directly true.

498
00:29:54.359 --> 00:29:56.400
And he says, no, I agree.

499
00:29:56.400 --> 00:29:57.660
It was about something though, wasn't it?

500
00:29:57.720 --> 00:30:02.220
This is about their relationship. this is sort of the one point in the episode that means something.

501
00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:03.420
Yeah, yeah.

502
00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:05.400
I like it, yeah, it goes here.

503
00:30:05.460 --> 00:30:09.960
Captain Kirk does, you know, talk very romantically, but yes, in essence, I agree.

504
00:30:10.019 --> 00:30:10.859
I agree, I like it.

505
00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:11.880
I think that's really good.

506
00:30:13.079 --> 00:30:16.440
Yeah, so there are sort of little crumbs, aren't there?

507
00:30:16.500 --> 00:30:17.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

508
00:30:17.460 --> 00:30:23.579
And mostly they're Shatner and Nemoy's performance, I think, but the rest of it is just sort of super boring, I think.

509
00:30:23.640 --> 00:30:26.519
Like this, please forgive me where exactly is your fleet?

510
00:30:26.579 --> 00:30:29.700
You know, like he just sort of asks the logical question.

511
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:35.940
And so he assumes then, well, he's going to get control of the enterprise and then all the other ships are going to follow him.

512
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:37.319
Yes, because he's mad.

513
00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:39.059
And that's part of the problem.

514
00:30:39.119 --> 00:30:40.200
Do you know what I mean?

515
00:30:40.259 --> 00:30:47.099
Like he just does random ass things because he's mad and because nothing that he does makes any sense.

516
00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:48.839
Nothing here really matters, you know?

517
00:30:48.900 --> 00:30:52.680
and it's the show isn't focussed enough on them trying to escape.

518
00:30:52.859 --> 00:30:54.720
Do you know what I mean?

519
00:30:54.839 --> 00:30:59.759
It's mostly focussed on these people doing things to them until they finally escape.

520
00:30:59.819 --> 00:31:04.440
I know we're usually very critical about backstories as to why things have happened.

521
00:31:04.500 --> 00:31:11.099
But, you know, like just something as to why he's gone mad, you know, and some motive as to why he wants to take over.

522
00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:13.319
Otherwise, it is just random stuff.

523
00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:21.359
Yeah, but that's it, but that's that's what they think mental illness is, what criminal insanity is, is this?

524
00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:24.240
You're mercurial, you behave irrationally.

525
00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:29.640
But wasn't Khan supposed to be mad in the earliest seasons?

526
00:31:29.700 --> 00:31:32.640
But he wants something, doesn't he?

527
00:31:32.700 --> 00:31:39.180
Like he's a person with a background who wants something and he's, you know, all of those Star Trek villains.

528
00:31:39.299 --> 00:31:44.160
Like this is kind of like a precursor to the Star Trek villains that we get in the movies, isn't it?

529
00:31:44.220 --> 00:31:45.839
Do you know what I mean?

530
00:31:45.900 --> 00:31:48.960
Like they're mad and they want to kill Kirk or whatever.

531
00:31:49.019 --> 00:31:56.940
They just usually bring in a really good character actor that delivers a, you know, a grounded performance.

532
00:31:57.000 --> 00:32:00.180
But they're not doing weird ass shit because they're mad.

533
00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:00.900
Do you know what I mean?

534
00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:02.160
Like they're doing something.

535
00:32:02.220 --> 00:32:12.119
They have a plan, they're behaving rationally, and there's some conflict, like some conflict of values happening.

536
00:32:12.180 --> 00:32:13.920
I mean, we sort of almost get...

537
00:32:13.980 --> 00:32:22.559
Within that, even with the sort of the randomness of how they're behaving, things like, it could have been scary, where you just can't predict how they're going to behave.

538
00:32:22.619 --> 00:32:25.859
But it just, see, I always feel so laboured.

539
00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:27.000
Yeah, yeah.

540
00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:28.500
A bit obvious in retrospect.

541
00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:29.640
Yeah, yeah.

542
00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:38.460
I mean, like I said, there's some, you know, like you said, I guess there are some nice reversals and the odd thing happens that's reasonably interesting.

543
00:32:38.519 --> 00:32:48.000
I thought the best part of the episode was when Spock comes in to save Kirk when she's on the bed and she pulls out the knife.

544
00:32:48.059 --> 00:32:50.940
And then they go to the transporter room and then...

545
00:32:50.940 --> 00:32:52.019
Neither one of them, I'm sure.

546
00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:55.140
Yeah, we're not sure who out of the 2 of them.

547
00:32:55.200 --> 00:33:02.160
I was absolutely certain it was Kirk and that whole scene was playing out in the room to convince Spock coming into the room.

548
00:33:02.220 --> 00:33:02.940
So I was like, okay.

549
00:33:03.960 --> 00:33:08.400
Yeah, they could never have done that because they would never have a scene without one of the regulars in it.

550
00:33:08.460 --> 00:33:09.660
They would just never have a scene.

551
00:33:09.720 --> 00:33:10.559
Do you know what I mean?

552
00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:11.400
Like they...

553
00:33:11.460 --> 00:33:13.200
But for a 2nd I was like, oh, what's going on?

554
00:33:13.259 --> 00:33:14.579
You know, just for a second.

555
00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:33.299
So this prop here appeared in a season one episode called Dagger of the Mind, which was also set in a prison, and it's where someone had this sort of scary treatment that you would be strapped to and it would cause you pain, but it wouldn't have any sort of physical effect.

556
00:33:33.359 --> 00:33:41.400
And I think in memory, Alpha said that Nemoy complained that this was too much like that episode.

557
00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:45.299
Oh, I hope it was more exciting than that.

558
00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:46.380
Well, I don't know.

559
00:33:46.440 --> 00:33:51.839
In fact, I got these 2 mixed up, so I don't know that I've seen Dagger of the Mind.

560
00:33:51.900 --> 00:33:52.859
I knew I'd seen this.

561
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:55.140
I thought this was probably Dagger of the Mind.

562
00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:57.299
But obviously it isn't.

563
00:33:57.359 --> 00:34:01.980
Um, but, um, you know, I gather, I'm off the mind is better.

564
00:34:02.759 --> 00:34:04.980
It cannot be much worse.

565
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:14.699
No, I, I, I would go as far as to say that the costume department are doing this episode of Dis Service.

566
00:34:14.760 --> 00:34:17.159
There's just those ridiculous costumes.

567
00:34:17.219 --> 00:34:20.639
You cannot take any of these characters seriously because of how they're dressed.

568
00:34:20.699 --> 00:34:22.739
No, but I don't think you're supposed to.

569
00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:24.599
Like, I think it's supposed to be over the top.

570
00:34:24.659 --> 00:34:30.599
This is supposed to be camp, and this is a B movie, I think, is the is the thing. the tone we're going for.

571
00:34:30.659 --> 00:34:34.079
I mean, looking, they've got odd looking extras in.

572
00:34:34.139 --> 00:34:35.039
Do you know what I mean?

573
00:34:35.099 --> 00:34:37.739
Like all of the mute extras look odd.

574
00:34:38.159 --> 00:34:46.380
So is Freiburger so sort of unimpressed with his audience that he's like, well, just throw in a sexy dance?

575
00:34:46.440 --> 00:34:48.420
Yeah, put in some camp costumes.

576
00:34:48.480 --> 00:34:50.820
They'll be amused for 50 minutes.

577
00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:52.800
He's really basic.

578
00:34:52.860 --> 00:34:57.599
That's so sad, given where we've been, given some of the things we've seen in those earlier seasons.

579
00:34:57.659 --> 00:35:01.260
Trump with triples and um...

580
00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:04.619
No, what's the one with the Doomsday machine, you know?

581
00:35:04.679 --> 00:35:06.360
Jeez, that was good telly.

582
00:35:06.420 --> 00:35:07.260
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

583
00:35:07.320 --> 00:35:08.639
What the hell is this?

584
00:35:08.699 --> 00:35:10.079
This is just ridiculous.

585
00:35:10.139 --> 00:35:18.719
But and the weird thing is, it's almost like they get it right by mistake in season 3 because you occasionally get the Enterprise incident or the Western.

586
00:35:18.780 --> 00:35:23.280
Yeah, or the one where Spock has a romance just before the series ends.

587
00:35:23.340 --> 00:35:28.800
Some of the episodes are great, but it's almost inadvertently rather than by design.

588
00:35:28.860 --> 00:35:31.739
Yeah, I mean, this, who wants to watch this?

589
00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:32.820
What are we getting from this?

590
00:35:33.599 --> 00:35:35.699
I don't quite understand.

591
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:37.619
So this device causes pain.

592
00:35:37.619 --> 00:35:39.539
There's no physical effects.

593
00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:40.260
Yeah.

594
00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:41.280
Okay.

595
00:35:41.340 --> 00:35:43.440
I'm not sure that actually works.

596
00:35:43.500 --> 00:35:45.780
Well, no, it's imaginable.

597
00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:46.860
I mean, you can imagine it.

598
00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:52.800
It depends on how you define pain, I guess, but, you know, yeah, you can imagine something of Shatner.

599
00:35:53.340 --> 00:35:54.300
Oh, look at him.

600
00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:56.880
He's like doing in pain acting.

601
00:35:56.940 --> 00:35:58.139
But why is that fun?

602
00:35:58.199 --> 00:35:59.400
And it seems to be prolonged.

603
00:36:00.119 --> 00:36:04.380
So, Marta, I just don't get no, she's mad.

604
00:36:04.440 --> 00:36:06.059
She's mad.

605
00:36:06.119 --> 00:36:09.840
And there are scenes, like there is a scene that attempts to humanise her.

606
00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:22.739
And part of it's, you know, like she's sexually voracious and stuff, um, and that sort of upsetting, but occasionally she seems intelligent and she's thinking and stuff and then she whips out the knife, you know, and tries to stab him.

607
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:27.360
Is she is she loyal to Garth or does she want to go?

608
00:36:27.420 --> 00:36:29.219
No, she says she is.

609
00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:31.860
So that's why she tries to kill him with a knife.

610
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:34.199
No, she does that because she's mad.

611
00:36:35.400 --> 00:36:37.800
Just keep saying that to me, all right?

612
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:40.440
Every time I try and figure out a motivation.

613
00:36:40.500 --> 00:36:41.159
No, that's it.

614
00:36:41.219 --> 00:36:41.760
That's the problem.

615
00:36:41.820 --> 00:36:43.079
You know, none of these are people.

616
00:36:43.139 --> 00:36:59.820
And so, and so, like, I think that her being killed is really bad, and I think it's unpleasant to watch, and I think it's they're telling on themselves by thinking that people are going to enjoy that.

617
00:36:59.880 --> 00:37:01.380
Do you know what I mean?

618
00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:12.840
Like on some level, and because it's a scantily clad woman with no agency who's being manhandled and we're seeing her, you know, hold out her arms, pleading and suffering and stuff.

619
00:37:12.900 --> 00:37:15.960
Like that's yucky and unpleasant.

620
00:37:16.019 --> 00:37:19.559
And like, the death itself is kind of comic.

621
00:37:19.559 --> 00:37:21.000
Oh, that's even worse.

622
00:37:21.179 --> 00:37:30.599
But she's so not a character that you have any empathy with because she doesn't do anything that that undermines it.

623
00:37:30.659 --> 00:37:33.360
And that's fortunate because it's horrible, you know?

624
00:37:33.420 --> 00:37:38.639
It's worth mentioning it is an actress playing this this thankless bloody role, you know?

625
00:37:38.699 --> 00:37:40.500
It's miserable, doesn't it?

626
00:37:40.559 --> 00:37:42.960
Is this the best they could hope for in the 60s?

627
00:37:43.019 --> 00:37:43.739
Well, I don't know.

628
00:37:43.800 --> 00:37:44.820
I don't think so.

629
00:37:44.940 --> 00:37:48.420
You remember that fabulous woman in Assignment Earth in the office?

630
00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:50.219
No, we loved her.

631
00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:51.000
She had great fun.

632
00:37:51.059 --> 00:37:51.599
Yeah.

633
00:37:51.659 --> 00:37:54.900
She did wine a bit, but she had a lot. she was awesome.

634
00:37:55.139 --> 00:37:57.179
But she was, you know, here we go.

635
00:37:57.239 --> 00:38:01.440
I suppose we could call this the 2nd interracial kiss on Star 2nd week.

636
00:38:01.500 --> 00:38:05.039
Well, this is the 1st one because I think Plato's stepchildren comes next, doesn't it?

637
00:38:05.099 --> 00:38:06.239
I'm not sure I could be wrong.

638
00:38:06.300 --> 00:38:07.019
Oh, does it?

639
00:38:07.019 --> 00:38:07.800
Yeah, yeah.

640
00:38:07.860 --> 00:38:08.880
So it could be the 1st one.

641
00:38:08.940 --> 00:38:09.900
It's a green one.

642
00:38:10.019 --> 00:38:13.440
I mean, I suppose if Alien is... a different race.

643
00:38:13.500 --> 00:38:15.239
It's a different colour, isn't it?

644
00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:19.920
race, and they do use different skin colours to differentiate races. you know, they're...

645
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:21.300
Maybe this was sort of the testing ground.

646
00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:39.719
Well, I think they're thinking, no, but I think they do think of, you know, when they think about different races, when that means, you know, people of different ethnic backgrounds or whatever, on earth, and they're conceptualising aliens the same way, like that's a thing.

647
00:38:40.260 --> 00:38:43.739
You know, can I very, very quickly talk about Roddenberry?

648
00:38:43.800 --> 00:38:44.159
Yeah.

649
00:38:44.219 --> 00:38:48.840
Because he's obviously left, well, they've sort of kicked him off the series at this point, haven't they?

650
00:38:48.900 --> 00:38:53.099
And that's why Freiburger's come in and he's in overall creative control.

651
00:38:53.159 --> 00:39:18.480
And one of the things I gleaned from the centre seat was that, anything after TOS, Roddenbury came in with tons of ideas, most of them were terrible and they weren't able to use them in the 80s and the 90s and they weren't able to use them in the movies and they effectively just gave him a little office at Paramount and say, right, well, you look over the script and give us your notes, but effectively they weren't going to listen to him.

652
00:39:18.539 --> 00:39:19.019
Yeah.

653
00:39:19.019 --> 00:39:28.679
So I'm wondering if TOS is the one point where when Roddenbury was in creative control and it was all working because the 1st 2 series where he was in charge effectively in charge.

654
00:39:28.739 --> 00:39:31.199
I know the other gene, Gene Coon did a lot of work.

655
00:39:31.260 --> 00:39:31.920
Yeah, yeah.

656
00:39:31.980 --> 00:39:34.679
It really worked like Gangbusters.

657
00:39:34.739 --> 00:39:37.739
But there it has the problem.

658
00:39:37.800 --> 00:39:42.900
It has a very roddenberry problem with women, which seems to be persisting here, don't you think?

659
00:39:43.739 --> 00:39:48.659
And certainly persists in the 1st couple of series of the next generation.

660
00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:49.380
Yeah, yeah.

661
00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:53.400
Just that weird, weird, ookie sex thing that he has going.

662
00:39:53.460 --> 00:39:59.880
You know, we talk about late 90s trek being really sexist or really kind of sophomoric and its handling of sex.

663
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:08.400
Whereas Rod and Bree's instinct is to be incredibly fucking creepy when it comes to sex. think I'd rather have sex less than this.

664
00:40:08.460 --> 00:40:09.300
No.

665
00:40:09.539 --> 00:40:12.599
I mean, it's the 2 extremes, isn't it?

666
00:40:12.659 --> 00:40:13.079
Yeah.

667
00:40:13.139 --> 00:40:17.400
All we want is somewhere in the middle, where it's normalised and just, you know, fun to watch.

668
00:40:17.460 --> 00:40:18.539
But look at this.

669
00:40:18.599 --> 00:40:21.780
This is just an enterprise corridor, said redressed, isn't it?

670
00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:23.460
And with different colour gels.

671
00:40:23.519 --> 00:40:26.760
I actually figured a lot of this was enterprise, actually dressed.

672
00:40:26.820 --> 00:40:28.260
Yeah, yeah, definitely.

673
00:40:29.400 --> 00:40:31.559
Different coloured gels.

674
00:40:31.619 --> 00:40:34.019
That's the only way we differentiate, yeah.

675
00:40:34.079 --> 00:40:36.000
With the screen.

676
00:40:36.059 --> 00:40:37.800
Oh, dude.

677
00:40:37.800 --> 00:40:39.539
Is this the big breakout they're trying to get away?

678
00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:42.119
Yeah, and I have to say that this did fool me.

679
00:40:42.179 --> 00:40:48.300
I didn't realise that Spock was, oh, in fact, no, that's not true.

680
00:40:48.360 --> 00:40:56.099
And I tell you how I knew, I knew that it was just about fucking time something happened in the episode.

681
00:40:56.880 --> 00:41:03.119
And I think, I think I, um, I genuinely wasn't sure which one of them it was.

682
00:41:03.179 --> 00:41:11.099
Yeah, no, but at this point, at this point, it's only now when he refuses to give the code...

683
00:41:11.159 --> 00:41:13.619
And straight away, you will, you'll immediately think it's Kirk, don't you?

684
00:41:13.619 --> 00:41:14.519
Because he's not giving the code.

685
00:41:14.579 --> 00:41:22.079
But because we were with Kirk all the way through that scene and Spock came to rescue him, it had to be Spock.

686
00:41:22.139 --> 00:41:26.519
So that's why I was like, my God, are they being that clever that they were playing out that scene?

687
00:41:26.579 --> 00:41:28.139
I was like, no, they weren't.

688
00:41:28.199 --> 00:41:29.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

689
00:41:29.039 --> 00:41:35.039
But you remember I said, you know, there was no like nothing was happening.

690
00:41:35.099 --> 00:41:39.300
There was just a whole bunch of things, but no actual incidents happening.

691
00:41:39.360 --> 00:41:46.500
And so at this point, I thought, Because I think I sent I sent them something to you using terms from Muse.

692
00:41:46.559 --> 00:41:52.440
Remember the old man in Mews where they list or even the pretty young person?

693
00:41:52.500 --> 00:41:58.139
No, no, where he talks about the mistaken identity, the sudden reversal, all of that sort of thing.

694
00:41:58.199 --> 00:41:59.340
Where are those?

695
00:41:59.400 --> 00:42:01.860
Kellen would have put a mistaken identity in here.

696
00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:05.699
And then I just thought, ah, yes, this is about the time something should happen.

697
00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:07.079
It's definitely it.

698
00:42:07.139 --> 00:42:09.360
Helen wouldn't have gone anywhere near this.

699
00:42:09.420 --> 00:42:10.019
No, no, no.

700
00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:14.639
He was... he was... those sort of phase out and then golf's there.

701
00:42:14.699 --> 00:42:15.840
They are well done, I think.

702
00:42:15.900 --> 00:42:20.639
Yeah, yeah. given that they can't do anything else, they may as well do that, I think.

703
00:42:20.699 --> 00:42:22.260
It's just quick.

704
00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:25.019
I like how quick he is. blinking, you're missing, you know?

705
00:42:25.079 --> 00:42:28.679
He moves a foot to the left or something each time, but that's fine.

706
00:42:28.739 --> 00:42:33.239
Shatner's like, for God's sakes, I almost got away. away from this dreary episode.

707
00:42:34.199 --> 00:42:36.719
How much longer have I got to wait?

708
00:42:36.780 --> 00:42:38.039
Oh, 18 minutes, okay.

709
00:42:38.099 --> 00:42:40.619
Oh my god, is there still 18 minutes to go?

710
00:42:40.980 --> 00:42:44.460
Yeah, we haven't had the death yet, no, Malta's horrible day.

711
00:42:44.519 --> 00:42:46.139
Well, that's quite near the end, I think.

712
00:42:46.199 --> 00:42:47.039
Is that coming now?

713
00:42:47.099 --> 00:42:49.920
The highlight of the episode for all the wrong reasons.

714
00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:50.940
Yeah, yeah.

715
00:42:51.780 --> 00:42:53.519
It's miserable.

716
00:42:53.579 --> 00:42:57.300
Did we miss the bit because there was a bit that I really liked.

717
00:42:57.360 --> 00:43:15.539
I think it was actually earlier on where it was just the one moment where I thought things were working and um, it's Spock just very gently calls him Captain Garth, and he replies, Lord Garth, and Spot just goes, like raises an eyebrow and goes, as you wish.

718
00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:17.219
And it's so...

719
00:43:17.219 --> 00:43:18.119
No, you've missed up there.

720
00:43:18.179 --> 00:43:19.320
He was properly good.

721
00:43:19.380 --> 00:43:26.219
Like, again, the only entertainment, I think, to be had a little Shatner moments and little Nemoy moments.

722
00:43:26.280 --> 00:43:29.880
I think Nemoy is mildly contemptuous of all of this.

723
00:43:29.940 --> 00:43:38.099
And we know this because I've read many an interview where he's mildly contemptuous, well, not mildly, about all of everything.

724
00:43:38.639 --> 00:43:43.320
Yeah, they were basically a bit embarrassed by what they were doing in this last season.

725
00:43:43.380 --> 00:43:45.000
For the most part.

726
00:43:45.059 --> 00:43:46.860
Yeah, because there's nothing to this one.

727
00:43:46.920 --> 00:43:47.639
What's this embarrass?

728
00:43:47.699 --> 00:43:56.280
So they do like a little set piece, and I'll say little with a small L. And then you just have Garth camping it up again, don't you?

729
00:43:56.340 --> 00:43:59.639
Doing his whole Lord, Gar, I'll take over the galaxy.

730
00:43:59.699 --> 00:44:01.260
But I mean, what's happening here?

731
00:44:01.320 --> 00:44:02.699
Okay, so what's happening in this scene?

732
00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:09.059
Shadner is talking to Garth about his role as a Starfleet.

733
00:44:09.599 --> 00:44:10.679
There are things that happen to him.

734
00:44:10.739 --> 00:44:17.880
No, he's talking about his role as a Starfleet commander, and he's trying to convince him not to be criminally insane.

735
00:44:18.239 --> 00:44:19.920
Isn't he?

736
00:44:19.980 --> 00:44:21.420
Because that's something you can do, you know?

737
00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:22.380
Yeah, you can do that.

738
00:44:22.440 --> 00:44:23.099
That makes sense.

739
00:44:23.159 --> 00:44:28.320
And so none of this scene goes anywhere or means anything because it's ridiculous.

740
00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:33.000
He did remind me of the master from Doctor Who a couple of times in this.

741
00:44:33.059 --> 00:44:40.139
He just said there, I will be master of the universe. which I think Roger Delgado's master said in the 70s a couple of times.

742
00:44:40.199 --> 00:44:43.500
Oh, I will say kneel before me while you're down there.

743
00:44:43.559 --> 00:44:47.760
Alexander, Caesar, Napoleon, Lee Kwan, Crotus.

744
00:44:47.760 --> 00:44:54.599
So, Lee Kwan isn't Lee Kwan Yu from Singapore. who is around at about this time.

745
00:44:54.599 --> 00:44:59.699
So he and he was a bit of a, you know, authoritarian.

746
00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:00.900
But it's not him.

747
00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:05.460
Memory alpha makes it very clear that it's Lee Kwan, the completely made up Chinese dictator.

748
00:45:06.300 --> 00:45:09.599
And look, we are going.

749
00:45:09.659 --> 00:45:14.099
We're going to a fucking commercial break on him being shot with a stun gun.

750
00:45:14.159 --> 00:45:15.539
We know he's not dead.

751
00:45:15.599 --> 00:45:19.679
There's no peril, but because nothing actually fucking happens in this episode.

752
00:45:19.739 --> 00:45:21.599
That's what we're reduced to.

753
00:45:21.659 --> 00:45:24.659
He fell to the floor there, like a wilting flower.

754
00:45:24.719 --> 00:45:27.239
I was like, he really has given up at this.

755
00:45:27.300 --> 00:45:31.440
No, it's one of those laser beams that makes you lower yourself gently to the ground.

756
00:45:31.500 --> 00:45:32.940
It's a thing.

757
00:45:33.719 --> 00:45:34.260
Yeah.

758
00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:37.139
I've always wanted to be shot by one of those. a science thing.

759
00:45:37.559 --> 00:45:40.260
Oh, there's whole sequence now.

760
00:45:40.320 --> 00:45:42.119
Oh, boring.

761
00:45:42.179 --> 00:45:47.340
It's basically the very few bits of furniture we've got who's assembled into a throne.

762
00:45:47.400 --> 00:45:48.719
So it's a chair on a table.

763
00:45:48.840 --> 00:45:52.380
Actually, and he's given a crown of forms to have on his head.

764
00:45:52.440 --> 00:45:55.619
It's, it's, um, tinfoil.

765
00:45:55.679 --> 00:45:58.800
I actually like the sixtishness of the chair.

766
00:45:58.860 --> 00:45:59.820
Look at the chair.

767
00:45:59.880 --> 00:46:00.539
It's pretty great.

768
00:46:00.599 --> 00:46:02.639
And Dorian costume.

769
00:46:02.699 --> 00:46:03.900
I just can't go.

770
00:46:03.960 --> 00:46:05.579
He's got checked out, what are they thinking?

771
00:46:05.639 --> 00:46:06.179
Awesome.

772
00:46:06.420 --> 00:46:08.400
How did that man?

773
00:46:08.460 --> 00:46:10.559
I mean, he must have done a few days work wearing that.

774
00:46:10.619 --> 00:46:13.019
How did he not say, can I just take this off please?

775
00:46:13.079 --> 00:46:18.900
But I like the bit where Garth suggests...

776
00:46:18.900 --> 00:46:19.860
No, go on.

777
00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:21.059
The what?

778
00:46:21.119 --> 00:46:22.920
I'll just see RuPaul wear something like that.

779
00:46:22.980 --> 00:46:24.599
It's so bad.

780
00:46:25.199 --> 00:46:33.059
Gar suggests that that Kirk could be a human sacrifice and he goes, no, I wouldn't enjoy that at all.

781
00:46:34.739 --> 00:46:36.840
Do you know what's the trouble is?

782
00:46:36.840 --> 00:46:38.519
You and me, yeah, we love camp.

783
00:46:38.579 --> 00:46:40.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

784
00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:41.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

785
00:46:41.099 --> 00:46:42.960
So this should be chiming with us.

786
00:46:43.019 --> 00:46:44.280
No, but it's too boring.

787
00:46:44.340 --> 00:46:45.539
Like nothing's kind of happening.

788
00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:48.300
And I love a good megalomania villain.

789
00:46:48.360 --> 00:46:54.840
Like, you know, like I said before, very earnestly that, you know, villains shouldn't, you know, we should be demonising the mentally ill.

790
00:46:54.900 --> 00:46:59.579
But, you know, like a camp grand moustache twelling villain is great, a really good thing.

791
00:46:59.639 --> 00:47:03.599
But this guy, like he's like, I don't know, what's happening?

792
00:47:03.659 --> 00:47:05.099
He's mad and I don't care.

793
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:09.719
Maybe if it, if it played by a woman, it would have been more fun. golf.

794
00:47:09.780 --> 00:47:10.559
Yeah, probably.

795
00:47:10.619 --> 00:47:11.880
Probably.

796
00:47:12.179 --> 00:47:18.539
Okay, so this is the thing because he's not just someone who's mad.

797
00:47:18.599 --> 00:47:28.320
He's someone who's mad who can change his form to look like anyone, which he...

798
00:47:29.400 --> 00:47:33.480
From the people of Antos 4 or whatever.

799
00:47:33.539 --> 00:47:36.000
The ones who signed their own death warrants.

800
00:47:36.059 --> 00:47:37.199
Those guys.

801
00:47:37.260 --> 00:47:48.780
And he's also been able to invent the most powerful explosion in the galaxy. explosive, the most powerful explosive in history.

802
00:47:48.840 --> 00:47:50.880
And there's just also a genius.

803
00:47:50.940 --> 00:47:51.539
Yep.

804
00:47:51.599 --> 00:47:55.500
There's a little grain of it in that necklace that he just gave martyr.

805
00:47:55.559 --> 00:47:57.719
But what's weird is, right?

806
00:47:57.780 --> 00:48:02.219
I know he's sort of mistreated Martyr throughout this, but right up until the point of her death.

807
00:48:02.340 --> 00:48:07.260
There's no indication that he wants to kill her or get rid of her.

808
00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:09.239
I'll kill you with my bare hands and stuff.

809
00:48:09.300 --> 00:48:11.099
He said all sorts of horrible things to her.

810
00:48:11.159 --> 00:48:12.900
No, no, but I didn't, I don't know.

811
00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:14.880
I just didn't see it coming.

812
00:48:14.940 --> 00:48:16.199
I don't think that was going to happen.

813
00:48:16.260 --> 00:48:16.739
No.

814
00:48:16.739 --> 00:48:17.159
Yeah.

815
00:48:17.639 --> 00:48:21.840
Like, you know, usually a lot of this stuff is signposted in Star Trek.

816
00:48:21.900 --> 00:48:23.340
Yeah, especially the original series.

817
00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:24.659
Oh, that bloody costume.

818
00:48:26.460 --> 00:48:29.280
Can you get me one for Christmas, please?

819
00:48:29.340 --> 00:48:31.199
And I'll wear it for an episode.

820
00:48:31.739 --> 00:48:34.679
I reckon you can get them on Amazon for sure.

821
00:48:34.860 --> 00:48:36.539
You can make it.

822
00:48:36.599 --> 00:48:37.980
It's just a feather bar.

823
00:48:38.460 --> 00:48:42.360
I think that the Tellerite costume must have been used before.

824
00:48:42.420 --> 00:48:47.460
There is a lot of apparent gaffer tape on it, I think.

825
00:48:47.519 --> 00:48:51.420
There is, but there's also a lot of hair on his fingers.

826
00:48:51.480 --> 00:48:52.920
Have you know his?

827
00:48:52.980 --> 00:48:55.739
No, yeah, no, the king's fingers there, though, really?

828
00:48:55.800 --> 00:48:57.059
Oh, yeah, he's got really hairy hands.

829
00:48:57.119 --> 00:48:59.460
Oh, he's got 3 fingers to tell the rights have 3 fingers.

830
00:48:59.519 --> 00:49:01.079
I guess they do now.

831
00:49:01.139 --> 00:49:02.159
They do in this one.

832
00:49:02.159 --> 00:49:03.780
Because they're...

833
00:49:03.900 --> 00:49:04.440
What we doing now?

834
00:49:04.500 --> 00:49:06.480
Oh, now he's got to watch her die out. are going to it?

835
00:49:06.539 --> 00:49:07.980
Now we're going to explore.

836
00:49:08.039 --> 00:49:11.219
I know we're quite near the end of the episode now, so relax, okay?

837
00:49:11.280 --> 00:49:12.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

838
00:49:12.239 --> 00:49:14.039
It's almost, almost.

839
00:49:14.099 --> 00:49:14.820
Wow.

840
00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:18.300
The most powerful one in history.

841
00:49:18.360 --> 00:49:23.940
If I was to drop this flask, the resulting explosion. drop it for fuck's sake, drop it.

842
00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:25.320
Aporizer planet.

843
00:49:25.380 --> 00:49:26.699
Yeah, whoa.

844
00:49:26.760 --> 00:49:29.099
You see, all of that's so stupid.

845
00:49:29.159 --> 00:49:36.900
It's just like, and he's got a big explosive thing, which we're only mentioning just now for the sake of exploding martar.

846
00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:39.539
I do like that planet surface, though.

847
00:49:39.599 --> 00:49:41.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

848
00:49:41.519 --> 00:49:44.699
I mean, it's just the usual rocks, but they've done a bit of atmosphere.

849
00:49:44.760 --> 00:49:46.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

850
00:49:46.079 --> 00:49:49.079
There's a bit of smoke and a bit of like the lighting's a bit dark.

851
00:49:49.139 --> 00:49:50.880
The smoke boring.

852
00:49:50.940 --> 00:49:52.679
Do you know what this reminded me of?

853
00:49:52.739 --> 00:49:54.360
This is a bit of a Doctor Who reference.

854
00:49:54.420 --> 00:50:01.199
It reminded me of Mind Warp when Perry Brown gets taken out to the Sea of Sorrows and chained to all...

855
00:50:01.260 --> 00:50:03.059
She's murdered at the end of that as well.

856
00:50:03.119 --> 00:50:03.780
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

857
00:50:04.199 --> 00:50:06.119
So things weren't improving in the 80s.

858
00:50:06.179 --> 00:50:06.780
No, that's right.

859
00:50:06.840 --> 00:50:09.659
Okay, that's 20 years later. you know this is 20 years earlier than that.

860
00:50:09.719 --> 00:50:11.940
And so this is just unpleasant.

861
00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:14.039
And what's supposed to be happening.

862
00:50:14.099 --> 00:50:16.920
Like plot wise, what's what's happening here.

863
00:50:16.980 --> 00:50:19.079
He's trying to make...

864
00:50:19.079 --> 00:50:20.099
I'm going to say it's you now.

865
00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:22.139
He's killing her because he's mad.

866
00:50:22.199 --> 00:50:23.219
Ah, there we go.

867
00:50:23.280 --> 00:50:24.960
But I mean, what about the writers?

868
00:50:25.019 --> 00:50:27.000
Like what are the writers think this scene is doing?

869
00:50:27.059 --> 00:50:29.039
You think this was written?

870
00:50:29.099 --> 00:50:30.900
Yeah. that's the problem.

871
00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:32.760
Like, what do they think this scene is for?

872
00:50:32.820 --> 00:50:36.420
Is it to show us what an evil guy Garth is?

873
00:50:36.480 --> 00:50:40.019
Like, we sort of got that.

874
00:50:40.079 --> 00:50:42.539
You know, it's not fun to watch her.

875
00:50:42.719 --> 00:50:44.579
That's awful.

876
00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:46.380
That shot was really awful.

877
00:50:46.619 --> 00:50:48.360
And there we go.

878
00:50:51.420 --> 00:50:55.800
I had a draft once and I went up, yeah, yeah.

879
00:50:55.860 --> 00:50:58.800
So a tuna Madras.

880
00:50:58.860 --> 00:50:59.760
Oh my god.

881
00:51:01.380 --> 00:51:05.820
Yeah, now now Kirk's really angry because he's killed someone.

882
00:51:05.940 --> 00:51:11.579
That explosion in her necklace was so vast that they could detect...

883
00:51:13.079 --> 00:51:15.539
Truly.

884
00:51:15.539 --> 00:51:16.380
Here they are.

885
00:51:16.440 --> 00:51:20.400
It's another fucking scene where they're just explaining why they can't do anything.

886
00:51:20.460 --> 00:51:22.980
That's all that happens in these scenes, yeah.

887
00:51:23.039 --> 00:51:24.360
Mr. McCoy doing anything.

888
00:51:24.420 --> 00:51:25.619
I can't do anything, does he?

889
00:51:26.579 --> 00:51:31.800
Deforest has given it is all with the stairs, but nothing is going on.

890
00:51:31.860 --> 00:51:33.239
Oh, God.

891
00:51:33.300 --> 00:51:40.019
I feel really so, because we've done a couple recently of TS's where porn show, Nichols has done absolutely nothing.

892
00:51:40.619 --> 00:51:42.480
Nothing at all.

893
00:51:42.539 --> 00:51:43.800
She's just sat at that console.

894
00:51:43.860 --> 00:51:45.900
No wonder she said I've had enough.

895
00:51:45.960 --> 00:51:46.920
I don't want to do this.

896
00:51:46.980 --> 00:51:51.300
Yeah, but at least everyone has nothing to do in these scenes. democratised it.

897
00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:52.800
That makes it all right.

898
00:51:52.860 --> 00:51:55.019
Yeah, no one has anything to do.

899
00:51:55.079 --> 00:51:56.699
Oh, wait, we're going to fire the fan.

900
00:51:56.760 --> 00:51:58.320
It's just you this week, alright?

901
00:51:58.440 --> 00:51:59.460
everybody.

902
00:51:59.579 --> 00:52:06.840
And we're going to fire the phases, but we're going to do it really cheaply using stock footage that is taken from a previous episode.

903
00:52:06.900 --> 00:52:08.760
Oh, is that what you're watching?

904
00:52:08.820 --> 00:52:13.739
No, I'm watching the new one, but I do happen to know that this is just reused footage.

905
00:52:13.800 --> 00:52:15.179
It did baffle the question.

906
00:52:15.239 --> 00:52:16.619
I was like, why didn't they do this earlier?

907
00:52:16.679 --> 00:52:19.380
They knew where the weak point was and they could get through the phases.

908
00:52:19.440 --> 00:52:21.360
Well, why didn't we do this half hour ago?

909
00:52:21.420 --> 00:52:22.260
Well, it doesn't matter.

910
00:52:22.320 --> 00:52:22.800
It doesn't work.

911
00:52:22.860 --> 00:52:24.780
I mean, the force field still holding?

912
00:52:24.840 --> 00:52:26.699
So literally that was all nothing.

913
00:52:26.760 --> 00:52:29.340
So that scene was literally just wasting time.

914
00:52:29.400 --> 00:52:31.619
I do that a lot in this notch.

915
00:52:31.679 --> 00:52:38.039
Remember that episode we were TNG we were watching where they were at war 5 and he goes, well, we, you know, we need to catch up with them now.

916
00:52:38.099 --> 00:52:38.940
Go to warp nine.

917
00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:42.119
And I said to you, well, why the fuck were they going to walk on in the 1st place?

918
00:52:42.179 --> 00:52:42.719
That's it.

919
00:52:42.780 --> 00:52:44.760
They were saving thing.

920
00:52:44.820 --> 00:52:45.599
Who knows?

921
00:52:48.659 --> 00:52:49.739
Saving gas.

922
00:52:49.980 --> 00:52:52.679
At this point, he needs to die, don't he?

923
00:52:52.739 --> 00:52:53.940
Oh, can I let you into a little secret?

924
00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:57.239
Both times I watched this episode, yeah.

925
00:52:57.300 --> 00:52:59.760
I had to turn it off before the end.

926
00:52:59.820 --> 00:53:01.920
So I don't know what happens in the last 5 minutes.

927
00:53:01.980 --> 00:53:02.699
Oh, really?

928
00:53:03.539 --> 00:53:07.679
So I'm quite excited to learn how golf is defeated.

929
00:53:07.739 --> 00:53:09.000
I've not seen him defeated yet.

930
00:53:09.059 --> 00:53:12.119
Oh, yeah, okay. you'll be super impressed.

931
00:53:12.179 --> 00:53:13.559
It's very clever.

932
00:53:13.619 --> 00:53:16.139
Oh, it's a bit where Spock touching before.

933
00:53:16.199 --> 00:53:17.099
Yeah, this, this.

934
00:53:18.239 --> 00:53:20.460
He looks so good.

935
00:53:20.460 --> 00:53:23.519
I refuse to believe he's been beyond that for that long and he hasn't touched it.

936
00:53:23.579 --> 00:53:27.480
No, but that's just Nemoy going, fucking hell. am I doing?

937
00:53:27.840 --> 00:53:34.380
Here comes the glitzy Andorian. pimp.

938
00:53:34.440 --> 00:53:35.340
They're both.

939
00:53:35.460 --> 00:53:39.000
I love the fact that he shows no sign of embarrassment wearing it either.

940
00:53:39.059 --> 00:53:40.440
Yeah, good.

941
00:53:40.500 --> 00:53:41.159
Yeah.

942
00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:44.219
Oh, do you know what?

943
00:53:44.280 --> 00:53:46.079
I'm a bit bored of all these sets now as well.

944
00:53:46.139 --> 00:53:48.300
You know, we've been up and down the same corridors a lot.

945
00:53:48.360 --> 00:53:50.460
Oh, go on, Spock.

946
00:53:50.519 --> 00:53:52.380
He knocked them both out, though, with one bridge.

947
00:53:52.440 --> 00:53:53.820
Yeah, woo hoo.

948
00:53:53.880 --> 00:53:56.400
Finally, this is coming to an end.

949
00:53:56.460 --> 00:53:57.239
Yay.

950
00:53:57.300 --> 00:53:58.380
Oh, he takes a gun.

951
00:53:58.440 --> 00:53:59.219
What else he do?

952
00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:00.119
Just walks off.

953
00:54:00.179 --> 00:54:03.360
He's so bored He doesn't even run.

954
00:54:04.260 --> 00:54:10.800
Meanwhile, back in this room, Garth is still prostrating to Captain Kirk and...

955
00:54:10.800 --> 00:54:20.820
The thing that this reminds us of, of course, is that scene in the undiscovered country, isn't it?

956
00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:29.880
Where David Bowie's girlfriend is a shapeshifting alien and it, oh, but that was amazing. is really good to remember.

957
00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:30.420
Nathan.

958
00:54:30.480 --> 00:54:31.679
I can't believe I kissed you.

959
00:54:31.739 --> 00:54:33.599
Yeah, it must have been a lifelong ambition.

960
00:54:35.340 --> 00:54:36.840
So good.

961
00:54:36.900 --> 00:54:39.659
But one exchange is more fun than this.

962
00:54:39.719 --> 00:54:43.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah. that whole Yeah, well, that's a brilliant film. so good Oh, this is fun.

963
00:54:44.039 --> 00:54:45.000
The 2 terms, yeah.

964
00:54:45.059 --> 00:54:46.559
I've not seen it from this point.

965
00:54:46.619 --> 00:54:47.699
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

966
00:54:47.760 --> 00:54:48.420
So this is pretty good.

967
00:54:48.480 --> 00:54:49.019
Okay.

968
00:54:49.019 --> 00:54:51.900
So now Spock's got to decide which Kirk is Kirk.

969
00:54:51.960 --> 00:54:52.800
Yeah, yeah.

970
00:54:52.860 --> 00:54:59.460
And of course, the obvious thing to do is you've got a phaser set to stun, so just stun both of them and then call up.

971
00:54:59.519 --> 00:55:00.719
I'll do.

972
00:55:00.719 --> 00:55:01.199
Yeah.

973
00:55:01.980 --> 00:55:05.159
There was 2 of you in front of me, I'd stun you both.

974
00:55:05.219 --> 00:55:06.360
Yep, yep.

975
00:55:06.420 --> 00:55:08.699
You'd both wake up in very uncompromising positions.

976
00:55:10.739 --> 00:55:13.320
Oh dear, here we go.

977
00:55:13.380 --> 00:55:18.719
And so we're doing the same thing with the Queen of Knights Rook 5 or whatever.

978
00:55:18.780 --> 00:55:21.000
He did a good eyebrow race there.

979
00:55:21.119 --> 00:55:21.539
Yep.

980
00:55:21.599 --> 00:55:23.699
I'm going for anything I can get now.

981
00:55:23.760 --> 00:55:25.559
I think that's what you have to do.

982
00:55:25.860 --> 00:55:27.599
Fascinating.

983
00:55:27.659 --> 00:55:28.380
Come on.

984
00:55:28.440 --> 00:55:29.460
Shoe and both.

985
00:55:30.179 --> 00:55:34.320
Yeah, so we're asking a question that only Spock would know.

986
00:55:34.380 --> 00:55:35.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

987
00:55:35.820 --> 00:55:39.719
We do this a couple of times in 90s track as well, you know, where you've got 2 of the same people.

988
00:55:39.780 --> 00:55:40.739
Yeah.

989
00:55:40.739 --> 00:55:41.159
Yeah.

990
00:55:41.699 --> 00:55:49.019
There's a scene in the adversary, which 2 Odos, uh, where it goes, anyone could have known that information.

991
00:55:49.079 --> 00:55:50.519
Well, that was exactly what we have here.

992
00:55:50.579 --> 00:55:53.099
The cockrain maneuver. everyone does that all the time.

993
00:55:53.159 --> 00:55:56.699
And so he just goes, oh, yeah, okay.

994
00:55:56.760 --> 00:55:58.199
Yeah.

995
00:55:58.260 --> 00:56:02.280
So, I just feel more relaxed that Nemoy's on the screen somehow.

996
00:56:02.340 --> 00:56:04.980
Yeah, yeah, and that he's in charge of the of the scene.

997
00:56:05.400 --> 00:56:09.659
So we do a sort of wisdom of Solomon thing, right?

998
00:56:09.719 --> 00:56:14.460
You know, the story about the the 2 women bring the baby to Solomon.

999
00:56:14.519 --> 00:56:15.179
Oh, here we go.

1000
00:56:15.239 --> 00:56:16.079
They're fighting each other.

1001
00:56:16.139 --> 00:56:17.639
Look at the terrible double.

1002
00:56:17.639 --> 00:56:19.920
Look at the stunt double. his visible face.

1003
00:56:19.980 --> 00:56:28.739
There is one great cup though, where we cut from the stump double falling to a close-up of Shatton to doing the same maneuver, which is pretty good.

1004
00:56:28.800 --> 00:56:30.480
There is nothing like that.

1005
00:56:30.539 --> 00:56:31.079
It's no.

1006
00:56:31.139 --> 00:56:37.860
And there's one thing where Shatner puts his hand over the stunt doubles face as he's fighting so that we can't see that it's him.

1007
00:56:37.920 --> 00:56:39.599
It's so bad.

1008
00:56:39.719 --> 00:56:41.099
It's so bad.

1009
00:56:41.159 --> 00:56:42.719
Oh my god.

1010
00:56:42.780 --> 00:56:46.980
I mean, they've done, they've done doubles in TOS way better than this in the NBA.

1011
00:56:47.039 --> 00:56:47.940
But they did worse ones.

1012
00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:54.119
Remember the tiny little guy with the high voice who became 6 foot tall when he was the stunt dubble in the wolf in the fold?

1013
00:56:55.260 --> 00:56:57.539
That was our favourite pole.

1014
00:56:57.599 --> 00:56:58.380
That was awesome.

1015
00:56:58.440 --> 00:57:02.340
Yeah, so now he just goes standing there the whole time watching this fire.

1016
00:57:02.400 --> 00:57:03.239
Yeah, yeah.

1017
00:57:03.300 --> 00:57:05.460
He's just going, yeah fuck it. shoot shoot him.

1018
00:57:05.519 --> 00:57:08.579
Yeah, and why didn't you do this at the start?

1019
00:57:08.639 --> 00:57:10.980
Oh, no, he has he shot the right one, though?

1020
00:57:11.039 --> 00:57:13.199
No, he shoots.

1021
00:57:13.320 --> 00:57:15.179
No, because the real Shatner.

1022
00:57:15.239 --> 00:57:16.199
Oh no, he just shoots one.

1023
00:57:16.260 --> 00:57:23.219
The real Shatner says you should shoot both of us for the sake of the Enterprise, and then he knows it's the real Shatner.

1024
00:57:23.280 --> 00:57:25.260
And then later on, the real Kirk.

1025
00:57:25.320 --> 00:57:36.059
And then later on the crap joke at the end is a conversation between the 2 of them where Kirk goes, how come it took you so long to work out, which of us was Garth?

1026
00:57:36.119 --> 00:57:44.820
And he said, he says, oh, I was just going to wait till the physical conflict was over and then shoot the winner because they use a Garth would win.

1027
00:57:45.360 --> 00:57:48.300
Because of your depleted condition, Captain.

1028
00:57:48.360 --> 00:57:50.400
That's actually a pretty good choice.

1029
00:57:50.460 --> 00:57:51.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1030
00:57:51.539 --> 00:57:52.860
Yeah, that is really, very low.

1031
00:57:52.860 --> 00:57:53.880
Does they do the music, though, though?

1032
00:57:53.940 --> 00:57:55.679
I can't remember, probably.

1033
00:57:55.739 --> 00:58:09.300
But they're curing the Andorian of his mental illness and now they've cured Gar. and he's just sitting there and everything's fine and there are no consequences for anything.

1034
00:58:09.360 --> 00:58:11.159
And we don't mention that.

1035
00:58:11.219 --> 00:58:13.380
He's just got to go in that machine and he's fine now.

1036
00:58:13.440 --> 00:58:16.139
No, well, I don't think so, because the machine just causes you pain.

1037
00:58:16.199 --> 00:58:20.099
I think he's just relaxing in the machine after being given the injection of the medicine.

1038
00:58:20.159 --> 00:58:22.920
Have you seen he's got different coloured boots on?

1039
00:58:22.980 --> 00:58:24.420
He's got one green and one blue boot.

1040
00:58:24.539 --> 00:58:25.260
It will.

1041
00:58:25.260 --> 00:58:26.099
It was mad.

1042
00:58:26.159 --> 00:58:27.000
He was mad.

1043
00:58:27.059 --> 00:58:28.739
Yeah, true, man.

1044
00:58:28.800 --> 00:58:29.460
Yeah.

1045
00:58:29.460 --> 00:58:30.840
But he's not mad anymore.

1046
00:58:30.900 --> 00:58:31.440
He's cured.

1047
00:58:31.559 --> 00:58:33.900
He doesn't remember who Kirk is.

1048
00:58:33.960 --> 00:58:36.000
Oh, that's so terrible.

1049
00:58:36.059 --> 00:58:38.280
What's so boring, isn't it?

1050
00:58:38.639 --> 00:58:39.119
Yeah, yeah.

1051
00:58:39.179 --> 00:58:45.000
Like the ending of statistical probabilities is they're all still got their problems at the end.

1052
00:58:45.059 --> 00:58:45.719
Yeah, yep.

1053
00:58:45.780 --> 00:58:48.300
And they've like taken terrible. the community.

1054
00:58:48.360 --> 00:58:48.840
That's it.

1055
00:58:48.900 --> 00:58:50.460
You know, that's that's the nice thing about it.

1056
00:58:50.519 --> 00:58:52.500
Oh Jesus Christ.

1057
00:58:52.559 --> 00:58:53.940
Yep, so that's it.

1058
00:58:54.000 --> 00:58:54.539
He goes off.

1059
00:58:54.599 --> 00:58:56.039
Off, he goes.

1060
00:58:57.239 --> 00:59:03.420
I wondered why Captain Garth hadn't ever been mentioned in Lower Decks, but he doesn't seem to have been.

1061
00:59:03.480 --> 00:59:04.079
I did check.

1062
00:59:04.139 --> 00:59:06.840
I'm wondering why he hasn't appeared in those days.

1063
00:59:06.900 --> 00:59:07.980
He'd be perfect for it.

1064
00:59:08.880 --> 00:59:11.519
My God, he's lost his mind again.

1065
00:59:11.579 --> 00:59:13.079
We've got to get after Captain golf.

1066
00:59:13.199 --> 00:59:20.400
So apparently there was some discourse around Star Trek into Darkness and who the character John Harrison was going to be.

1067
00:59:20.460 --> 00:59:24.300
Like, you remember Bernadette Cumberbond.

1068
00:59:24.360 --> 00:59:25.619
What's his name?

1069
00:59:25.679 --> 00:59:27.840
Benedict Cumberbatch.

1070
00:59:28.320 --> 00:59:31.679
Bernard Cumberbond. whatever.

1071
00:59:31.800 --> 00:59:37.320
So he played John Harrison and people thought he had a secret identity and of course he ended up being kind.

1072
00:59:37.380 --> 00:59:42.239
No, please don't tell me that anyone thought he was going to be Captain Garth's mad.

1073
00:59:42.300 --> 00:59:44.340
Mad Captain Garth.

1074
00:59:44.400 --> 00:59:46.440
Wouldn't that be...

1075
00:59:46.440 --> 00:59:48.119
Talk about starting up and going.

1076
00:59:49.320 --> 00:59:50.159
Lord God.

1077
00:59:50.460 --> 00:59:52.619
I mean, awesome.

1078
00:59:52.679 --> 00:59:53.760
Come on.

1079
00:59:53.820 --> 00:59:55.019
Yeah, so here it is.

1080
00:59:55.079 --> 00:59:58.139
This is where he admits to how he was just going to wait.

1081
00:59:58.199 --> 00:59:59.099
He was just gonna wait.

1082
00:59:59.159 --> 01:00:02.880
And Shatner's really not very impressed.

1083
01:00:03.360 --> 01:00:06.119
Nemoy, look, handsome.

1084
01:00:06.179 --> 01:00:07.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1085
01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:08.219
Yep.

1086
01:00:08.280 --> 01:00:10.199
He's got such a dramatic profile.

1087
01:00:10.260 --> 01:00:11.400
I think he's very handsome man.

1088
01:00:11.460 --> 01:00:12.539
There we go.

1089
01:00:12.599 --> 01:00:15.300
We've done our crap joke and it's time to be...

1090
01:00:15.300 --> 01:00:18.059
We've got an eyebrow there and that's the end of it.

1091
01:00:18.119 --> 01:00:19.380
Which is by Fred Freiburger.

1092
01:00:19.440 --> 01:00:19.739
We know.

1093
01:00:20.519 --> 01:00:21.239
Yeah, we could tell.

1094
01:00:21.300 --> 01:00:21.840
Thanks, Fred.

1095
01:00:21.960 --> 01:00:24.480
What did you glean from that about mental illness, then, Nathan?

1096
01:00:24.539 --> 01:00:25.500
Nothing really.

1097
01:00:25.559 --> 01:00:25.860
No.

1098
01:00:25.920 --> 01:00:34.800
It can be cured with an intra Venus injection is what I've learned. makes you want to murder people spectacularly for no reason whatsoever.

1099
01:00:34.860 --> 01:00:37.199
Oh, it makes you wear very cam clothes.

1100
01:00:37.260 --> 01:00:39.659
Yeah, that's an upside, I think.

1101
01:00:39.900 --> 01:00:41.340
Yeah.

1102
01:00:41.400 --> 01:00:44.400
And it provokes the wheelbarrow dance.

1103
01:00:44.579 --> 01:00:48.059
Yeah, Jesus Christ, that was boring.

1104
01:00:48.119 --> 01:00:51.119
That was so amazingly boring, wasn't it?

1105
01:00:51.179 --> 01:00:52.079
Oh my god.

1106
01:00:52.139 --> 01:00:59.039
I'll tell you what, that wasn't much of a struggle to do a commentary on as wolf in the fold, if I want.

1107
01:00:59.099 --> 01:01:01.559
That interminable 15 minute scene in the middle.

1108
01:01:01.619 --> 01:01:03.539
We really struggled during that.

1109
01:01:03.599 --> 01:01:07.440
Yeah, I think the wolf in the fold because it goes from place to place.

1110
01:01:07.500 --> 01:01:09.840
It is a better episode than this.

1111
01:01:09.900 --> 01:01:11.219
It's still very bad.

1112
01:01:11.280 --> 01:01:14.039
It was way more atmospheric than this.

1113
01:01:14.099 --> 01:01:15.480
It was better directed and designed.

1114
01:01:15.539 --> 01:01:23.219
Yeah, and just more interesting because even though we did have that complete dead zone in the middle where nothing interesting is happening.

1115
01:01:23.280 --> 01:01:32.400
Yeah, just to prove that season 3 is going to forge ahead now with more issue-based drama, let that be your battlefield is the next episode.

1116
01:01:32.460 --> 01:01:38.039
Enterprising Council's 2 duochromatic and mutually belligerent aliens.

1117
01:01:38.099 --> 01:01:38.579
Do you remember?

1118
01:01:38.639 --> 01:01:46.079
Yes, I think it's just possible that it's an extremely subtle allegory for racism.

1119
01:01:46.139 --> 01:01:48.900
Extremely, yes.

1120
01:01:49.380 --> 01:01:52.139
Isn't he, isn't it Frank Gautian?

1121
01:01:52.199 --> 01:01:53.579
isn't it the Riddler is one of them?

1122
01:01:53.639 --> 01:01:55.079
It's a 2nd Batman person.

1123
01:01:55.139 --> 01:01:58.320
They're literally...

1124
01:01:58.320 --> 01:02:01.380
Freiburg was like, who's popular elsewhere?

1125
01:02:01.440 --> 01:02:03.119
What are people watching?

1126
01:02:03.179 --> 01:02:03.900
What's good?

1127
01:02:03.960 --> 01:02:05.519
Oh, madness.

1128
01:02:05.639 --> 01:02:12.539
Well, I have to say that, yeah, usually we head to the original series and we're delighted because we're going to have a lot of fun.

1129
01:02:12.599 --> 01:02:14.880
We didn't have a lot of fun with that, did we?

1130
01:02:14.940 --> 01:02:29.820
It's that thing with the original series, and I think I said it when we did Galileo 7 because it's also true of that, although that is a vastly better episode than this one, that sometimes it just seems astonishingly amateurish.

1131
01:02:29.880 --> 01:02:41.880
And this one with its sort of cartoon crayon depiction of mental illness, it just seemed, it's just like, do you people know nothing about anything at all?

1132
01:02:41.940 --> 01:02:43.380
Is that the issue here?

1133
01:02:43.440 --> 01:02:45.239
Well, you say cartoon.

1134
01:02:45.360 --> 01:02:49.860
Well, I think if the cartoon iteration on, I'm not talking about the anime series...

1135
01:02:49.860 --> 01:02:50.099
Yeah.

1136
01:02:50.099 --> 01:02:55.139
Did something on mental illness, it would have way more Thorn, Death Twitter, yes.

1137
01:02:55.199 --> 01:02:55.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1138
01:02:55.860 --> 01:02:56.099
Yeah.

1139
01:02:56.159 --> 01:03:02.460
And I think they would kind of realise that probably it might be too big a thing for them to deal with.

1140
01:03:02.519 --> 01:03:07.260
But, you know, like, I mean, this was just stupid, I think.

1141
01:03:07.320 --> 01:03:08.880
And it was exploitative.

1142
01:03:08.940 --> 01:03:13.800
I think that the Avon Craig thing was particularly unfortunate and kind of unpleasant to watch.

1143
01:03:14.039 --> 01:03:23.579
When Voyager did a rare sort of step into mental illness with Sudar, who was psychotic.

1144
01:03:24.360 --> 01:03:27.000
It was really well done.

1145
01:03:27.059 --> 01:03:34.440
I remember Chewvox trying to find a logical motive as to why he'll kill somebody and pseudo goes, I didn't like the way he looked at me.

1146
01:03:34.500 --> 01:03:37.079
And Chuvo was like, that's not enough.

1147
01:03:37.139 --> 01:03:40.500
That is not enough for a reason for you to want to murder something.

1148
01:03:40.559 --> 01:03:44.940
And they sort of go into how how you can be triggered in unexpected ways.

1149
01:03:45.000 --> 01:03:57.300
I think, though, that like Suda is just Hannibal Lecter a few years later, and it said, let's have our version of Hannibal Lecter and he's a Betazoid, and he can be on Voyager.

1150
01:03:57.360 --> 01:04:05.039
And what if we had to deal with someone that we couldn't ship them off to a penal colony or to Elba 2 and get them dealt with?

1151
01:04:05.099 --> 01:04:07.559
But it's more interesting than this.

1152
01:04:07.619 --> 01:04:08.760
Yeah, it's more interesting.

1153
01:04:08.820 --> 01:04:17.760
I mean, you know, like that sort of thing was very popular at the time and doesn't necessarily reflect what actual psychopaths are.

1154
01:04:17.820 --> 01:04:23.219
But somehow it seems less offensive than what we had here.

1155
01:04:23.280 --> 01:04:27.000
And it seemed a little bit more kind of grown up.

1156
01:04:27.059 --> 01:04:28.920
But again, it is just a trope.

1157
01:04:28.980 --> 01:04:39.480
Like the consulting psychopath that we have in Science of the Lambs was very effective and hugely important. soon it becomes, isn't it?

1158
01:04:39.539 --> 01:04:40.739
It's a bit of a trope, though.

1159
01:04:40.800 --> 01:04:43.139
Someone's behaving in a psychotic way.

1160
01:04:43.199 --> 01:04:44.579
Right, let's go and talk to Sudo.

1161
01:04:44.639 --> 01:04:45.059
Yeah, exactly.

1162
01:04:45.719 --> 01:04:47.099
Yeah.

1163
01:04:47.820 --> 01:04:49.679
The influence seems to be a 90s strike, isn't it?

1164
01:04:49.739 --> 01:04:57.659
If you're not an upstanding member of the Federation, you know, holding all the morals, that there is some mental health issues going on there, you know?

1165
01:04:57.719 --> 01:05:00.059
Yeah, because everybody's perfect in the future.

1166
01:05:00.119 --> 01:05:03.179
Well, no, but they've cured mental illness, so that can't be true.

1167
01:05:03.239 --> 01:05:04.019
We have a medicine.

1168
01:05:04.079 --> 01:05:05.579
It's an intravenous injection.

1169
01:05:05.639 --> 01:05:07.500
It starts working almost immediately.

1170
01:05:07.559 --> 01:05:09.659
I wonder what went wrong with Barclay then.

1171
01:05:17.039 --> 01:05:23.340
All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to work out what we're going to watch next.

1172
01:05:23.639 --> 01:05:28.199
I chose this one with my usual skill.

1173
01:05:28.260 --> 01:05:35.820
And so it's your turn, Joe, and I think we have something special coming up for Christmas, is that right?

1174
01:05:36.059 --> 01:05:37.619
We do.

1175
01:05:37.679 --> 01:05:40.380
Can you also de- evolve people with your usual skill?

1176
01:05:40.440 --> 01:05:41.280
I can, yeah.

1177
01:05:41.340 --> 01:05:44.039
Yeah, yeah, re evolve. is what I tend to do.

1178
01:05:44.460 --> 01:05:46.739
I've always, sorry, but yeah.

1179
01:05:46.800 --> 01:05:48.659
It's very exciting.

1180
01:05:48.719 --> 01:05:53.219
We are heading to a well that we have not drained too often.

1181
01:05:53.280 --> 01:06:03.000
In fact, only once before where we spent almost 2.5 hours. destroying the reputation of Star Trek generations.

1182
01:06:03.059 --> 01:06:04.079
We're doing the movies.

1183
01:06:04.199 --> 01:06:05.880
Yeah, that's fun.

1184
01:06:05.940 --> 01:06:07.019
It's well past time.

1185
01:06:07.559 --> 01:06:10.199
Well, we kind of said once a year, didn't we?

1186
01:06:10.260 --> 01:06:11.099
Yeah, yeah.

1187
01:06:11.159 --> 01:06:15.179
I think it can be a thing like towards Christmas, it can be our sort of seasonal special.

1188
01:06:15.300 --> 01:06:17.039
We'll do one of the movies.

1189
01:06:17.099 --> 01:06:20.219
So this is our 2nd one.

1190
01:06:20.280 --> 01:06:21.000
Hot luck.

1191
01:06:21.059 --> 01:06:25.019
We know with Star Trek movies, you know, it's hit and miss all odd and even.

1192
01:06:25.079 --> 01:06:26.340
Yep.

1193
01:06:26.340 --> 01:06:28.260
Let's see what gets on the button.

1194
01:06:28.320 --> 01:06:29.639
All right, you ready for this?

1195
01:06:29.699 --> 01:06:30.000
Yep.

1196
01:06:30.059 --> 01:06:30.539
Okay.

1197
01:06:30.960 --> 01:06:36.780
Your random Star Trek film is good Star Trek generations.

1198
01:06:36.840 --> 01:06:38.880
Well, we have to do it again.

1199
01:06:38.940 --> 01:06:39.900
Nope, roll again.

1200
01:06:39.960 --> 01:06:41.159
What are the oats?

1201
01:06:41.219 --> 01:06:43.079
Can you work out the odds, please?

1202
01:06:43.139 --> 01:06:44.639
How many movies are there?

1203
01:06:44.699 --> 01:06:46.500
12, 13, I don't know.

1204
01:06:46.559 --> 01:06:49.920
Oh, oh, oh, you said you wanted a goodie.

1205
01:06:49.980 --> 01:06:51.000
Oh, what is it?

1206
01:06:51.000 --> 01:06:53.699
Star Trek's favourite Star Trek?

1207
01:06:53.760 --> 01:06:54.300
Star Trek two.

1208
01:06:54.360 --> 01:06:55.380
Star Trek four.

1209
01:06:55.500 --> 01:06:57.599
Star Trek 4, the Voyager.

1210
01:06:57.719 --> 01:06:58.800
I love Star Trek four.

1211
01:06:58.860 --> 01:07:01.559
Oh, my God, I love it so much.

1212
01:07:01.619 --> 01:07:02.760
I'm cute.

1213
01:07:02.820 --> 01:07:03.300
I'm cute.

1214
01:07:03.360 --> 01:07:05.760
He gave me a pill when I've got a new kidney.

1215
01:07:06.539 --> 01:07:08.340
I can't wait.

1216
01:07:08.400 --> 01:07:08.820
That's awesome.

1217
01:07:08.880 --> 01:07:10.500
That's one of my favourites too.

1218
01:07:10.559 --> 01:07:13.500
Cleoid, West Adels.

1219
01:07:14.760 --> 01:07:17.039
But where is Alameda?

1220
01:07:17.099 --> 01:07:18.300
It's so good.

1221
01:07:18.360 --> 01:07:19.920
Oh, man.

1222
01:07:19.920 --> 01:07:24.960
Yeah, and, well, we watched Star Trek Picant season two, which was just full of references to it.

1223
01:07:25.019 --> 01:07:30.300
And we've since, you know, we've also seen Futures End where we kind of do the same thing.

1224
01:07:30.360 --> 01:07:35.099
It's something that Star Trek goes back to every decade or so.

1225
01:07:35.159 --> 01:07:37.559
But this is the 1st time and it's magnificent, I think.

1226
01:07:37.619 --> 01:07:48.539
There is an entire episode of the centre seat about the voyage home. packed full of trivia and quotes from the actors, Nemoy, loads of people.

1227
01:07:48.599 --> 01:07:53.519
There's a, oh, I can't just sort of spoil one thing now, where lovely Dr. Gillian.

1228
01:07:53.579 --> 01:07:59.639
Captain Kirk's bow in this episode is literally quoted as saying, I said, cut.

1229
01:07:59.699 --> 01:08:03.840
Leonard, will you get William Shatner out of my life?

1230
01:08:04.380 --> 01:08:05.820
I'm not getting any shots.

1231
01:08:05.880 --> 01:08:06.960
Get him away from me.

1232
01:08:09.059 --> 01:08:10.920
And you know what?

1233
01:08:10.980 --> 01:08:14.219
It is, when were you randomised, Star Trek stories?

1234
01:08:14.280 --> 01:08:23.819
It is hit and miss as to what I say about whether I'm going to like it or not because sometimes we go back and it's dreadful and other times we go back and we're surprised.

1235
01:08:23.880 --> 01:08:28.979
I can guarantee that we will enjoy this film.

1236
01:08:29.039 --> 01:08:30.720
I'm pretty confident about that too.

1237
01:08:30.779 --> 01:08:31.739
It is pretty great.

1238
01:08:31.800 --> 01:08:33.300
All right.

1239
01:08:33.359 --> 01:08:34.140
Oh, wonderful.

1240
01:08:34.199 --> 01:08:38.159
And it'll be, it's the 1st time that that punk appeared in Star Trek as well, isn't it?

1241
01:08:38.220 --> 01:08:40.380
But not the last. not the last time.

1242
01:08:40.439 --> 01:08:40.739
Excellent.

1243
01:08:47.699 --> 01:08:52.800
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley.

1244
01:08:52.859 --> 01:08:59.220
We're online at untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1245
01:08:59.340 --> 01:09:04.619
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lann.

1246
01:09:04.739 --> 01:09:10.260
This episode was recorded on the 28th of November 2023 and released on the 1st of December.

1247
01:09:10.319 --> 01:09:14.939
We'll see you next time for Star Trek 4, The Voyage Home.

1248
01:09:33.000 --> 01:09:35.279
Ah, yeah, good choice.

1249
01:09:35.340 --> 01:09:35.819
Good choice.

1250
01:09:35.880 --> 01:09:36.840
Yeah, yeah, that's awesome.

1251
01:09:36.899 --> 01:09:39.479
I was hoping for start five.

1252
01:09:39.539 --> 01:09:40.260
Fuck's sake.

1253
01:09:40.560 --> 01:09:42.600
Oh well, we'll get it one day.

1254
01:09:42.659 --> 01:09:46.859
Well, there's nothing to talk about why it went wrong, William Shatner.

1255
01:09:48.840 --> 01:09:54.060
Also that thing, you know, because we get to talk about two, three, and four, don't we?

1256
01:09:54.119 --> 01:09:58.260
Like a bit in Star Trek 4 because it's a trilogy.

1257
01:09:58.500 --> 01:10:00.659
Yeah, it pays off loads.

1258
01:10:00.720 --> 01:10:01.260
Yeah.

1259
01:10:01.319 --> 01:10:02.279
It's really good.

1260
01:10:02.460 --> 01:10:04.380
Where are they at the beginning?

1261
01:10:04.439 --> 01:10:05.159
They're on...

1262
01:10:05.159 --> 01:10:11.819
They're on... been, is the Enterprise just, so two.

1263
01:10:12.420 --> 01:10:15.420
Oh, they're on the Klingon, the Klingon ship on Vulcan.

1264
01:10:15.539 --> 01:10:18.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah. the beginning, you know, how do you feel?

1265
01:10:18.359 --> 01:10:22.619
Yeah, because he's been re-bodied or whatever.

1266
01:10:22.800 --> 01:10:25.140
I do not understand the question.

1267
01:10:25.260 --> 01:10:26.699
Oh, I know so many questions.

1268
01:10:27.239 --> 01:10:30.840
And it's really fabulously 80s as well.

1269
01:10:30.899 --> 01:10:32.039
It's so period.

1270
01:10:32.100 --> 01:10:38.039
Like it just, it, you know, just fits in with all of the films of that era, all the films of my childhood.

1271
01:10:38.100 --> 01:10:38.880
So good.

1272
01:10:39.239 --> 01:10:41.579
He's talking to that man.

1273
01:10:43.199 --> 01:10:46.560
What about Scotty talking into the mouse as well?

1274
01:10:46.619 --> 01:10:50.100
And like, oh, hello, computer.

1275
01:10:50.579 --> 01:10:53.819
People didn't even know what a mouse was back then.

1276
01:10:53.880 --> 01:10:55.199
Like it's like 1984.

1277
01:10:55.380 --> 01:10:56.460
That's when the Mac comes out.

1278
01:10:56.520 --> 01:10:59.819
No one had used a mouse before then and at least at home.

1279
01:10:59.880 --> 01:11:00.779
It was so great.

1280
01:11:00.840 --> 01:11:01.560
So good.

1281
01:11:01.619 --> 01:11:06.359
I laughed a bit when they were all on the street and he's like, oh, blend in.

1282
01:11:06.420 --> 01:11:08.100
They just look more awkward.

1283
01:11:09.359 --> 01:11:11.460
They're such nerds.

1284
01:11:11.520 --> 01:11:13.199
Oh, it's so great.

1285
01:11:13.260 --> 01:11:15.779
And everyone gets a slice of the pie as well, which I really like.

1286
01:11:16.020 --> 01:11:17.399
Yeah.

1287
01:11:17.460 --> 01:11:20.939
It's almost like Nimwa's got no bill. not all going to be about you.

1288
01:11:21.239 --> 01:11:22.979
This once.

1289
01:11:23.279 --> 01:11:29.340
Oh, the whole bit in the hospital where they take her in.

1290
01:11:29.399 --> 01:11:31.800
Hasn't she got like a baseball up at top?

1291
01:11:32.279 --> 01:11:33.779
Remember?

1292
01:11:33.840 --> 01:11:34.439
No.

1293
01:11:34.439 --> 01:11:39.659
And then they bring Chekov out and they went, he?

1294
01:11:39.779 --> 01:11:41.159
You went in with a she.

1295
01:11:42.180 --> 01:11:43.859
That's great.

1296
01:11:43.920 --> 01:11:44.939
Name?

1297
01:11:45.000 --> 01:11:46.140
No, my name.

1298
01:11:46.260 --> 01:11:47.399
I do not know your name.

1299
01:11:48.779 --> 01:11:50.939
It's such a great movie.

1300
01:11:52.439 --> 01:11:54.479
It's the one, isn't it?

1301
01:11:54.539 --> 01:11:55.319
It is the one.

1302
01:11:55.380 --> 01:12:04.079
I think aside from 1st contact that really chimed with everybody, not just the Trek fans.

1303
01:12:04.140 --> 01:12:05.100
Yeah, yeah.

1304
01:12:05.159 --> 01:12:05.819
Yeah.

1305
01:12:05.880 --> 01:12:13.140
I mean, I think I think those Star Trek films were popular despite that weird false start.

1306
01:12:13.199 --> 01:12:17.640
Like, I think that weird false start, where they never go to that again.

1307
01:12:17.699 --> 01:12:18.659
Do you know what I mean?

1308
01:12:18.720 --> 01:12:19.979
They become action adventure.

1309
01:12:20.039 --> 01:12:23.460
They're not trying to be Kubrick the 2nd time through.

1310
01:12:23.520 --> 01:12:25.859
And so I remember them being fun.

1311
01:12:25.920 --> 01:12:27.779
I remember, like, I'm sure that I went.

1312
01:12:27.899 --> 01:12:35.760
I think I saw 6 in the cinema after I'd kind of started to get into Star Trek and I just took everyone.

1313
01:12:35.880 --> 01:12:43.439
Like, I just said, all right, like, to all my friends, we're going to walk down to the monthly plates and watch Star Trek, and they all did, and it was like boxing day or something.

1314
01:12:43.560 --> 01:12:47.039
Yeah, like I just, I remember it really well.

1315
01:12:47.100 --> 01:12:47.699
Six.

1316
01:12:47.819 --> 01:12:51.960
I remember watching generations in the cinema and going, well, what the fuck?

1317
01:12:52.020 --> 01:12:56.699
generations and my father saw generations and drunk for some reason.

1318
01:12:56.760 --> 01:12:58.020
I think I would be drunk.

1319
01:12:58.079 --> 01:12:58.739
It didn't help.

1320
01:12:58.800 --> 01:12:59.460
No.

1321
01:12:59.460 --> 01:13:10.500
Well, I remember my father saying he'd seen it and he says that and we're on the ship and then we're on a sailing ship for some reason and I don't know why and it's kind of like, yeah, you know, like who the hell is going to be able to understand this at all.

1322
01:13:10.560 --> 01:13:13.979
They just don't, that's so dumb, isn't it?

1323
01:13:14.039 --> 01:13:20.460
Like, we didn't even talk about how dumb that was at the time, but it's like, who are these people on the sailing ship now?

1324
01:13:20.520 --> 01:13:22.260
Do you know what I mean?

1325
01:13:22.319 --> 01:13:26.520
I mean, we truly brutalised that in our commentary.

1326
01:13:26.579 --> 01:13:31.140
You will try to find the goods that I just went to town on that one.

1327
01:13:31.199 --> 01:13:33.600
Oh, just people of Veridium 3.

1328
01:13:33.779 --> 01:13:35.279
Who gives a fuck about them?

1329
01:13:35.399 --> 01:13:36.359
Yeah, no.

1330
01:13:36.359 --> 01:13:37.380
Just goes to show.

1331
01:13:37.439 --> 01:13:38.460
Everyone else are off days.

1332
01:13:38.520 --> 01:13:40.920
Well, Bran Bragg will row it with him, didn't he?

1333
01:13:40.979 --> 01:13:42.840
Yeah, yeah, let's blame him.

1334
01:13:42.899 --> 01:13:44.340
He gets the blame for everything.

1335
01:13:44.399 --> 01:13:45.899
Right or a threshold.

1336
01:13:45.960 --> 01:13:46.380
Oh, sorry.

1337
01:13:46.380 --> 01:13:48.000
He did do 100 off scripts.

1338
01:13:48.060 --> 01:13:49.619
Yeah, we should never mention that.

1339
01:13:49.680 --> 01:13:50.220
It's not fair.

1340
01:13:51.000 --> 01:13:53.460
X what does it all day?

1341
01:13:54.060 --> 01:13:55.380
Yeah.