WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 22:02:14

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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We're back this week and we are watching an episode of Star Trek

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Voyager.

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It's the 2nd episode that we've done.

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And you have been watching a lot of Voyager lately, haven't you?

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I have, yes.

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And I've reached an epiphany about Voyager that I wish to share

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with everybody.

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Oh, excellent.

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Okay.

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So recently life's hit a little bit. okay?

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as it tends to do from time to time.

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And I had a day where I wanted to drag my duvet at the sofa and

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not leave.

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I was there from 7 in the morning till 11 at night.

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I know they're sad, but and I just needed to lose myself in

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something for a day that just wasn't my own life.

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And for some bizarre reason, you know, additional self-harm, I

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chose Voyager.

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And I want to say, like, I think this is a good show to kind of

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switch off from your life. too.

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And I watched Caretaker and I was suddenly I was on the other side

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of the galaxy with this great cast of characters and I was having

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wonderful fun.

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I was having so much fun.

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I started live tweeting, images from that episode, and I've

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continued.

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I'm at Gitrell at the moment.

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I'm nearly at the end of season one and that's in less than a

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week.

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Right.

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And I'm live tweeting as I go, taking pictures of the best and the

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worst of season one of Warrior.

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And trust me, we veer in both directions in series one.

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But there is some really good stuff there as well.

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Anyone that thinks Early Voyager is terrible needs to go back and

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watch that because there are state of flux, prime factors

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caretaker, phage.

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There's some really good stuff in there.

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But I don't, I don't want to say it's undemanding.

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Because it does tackle some, you know, some intelligent stuff.

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But I think there's something to be said for a show that

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entertains like this, starts competently, consistently.

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And a show that just sort of takes you away from your own care.

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And I've used Voyager for that this week.

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I wouldn't use DS9 for that and I prefer DS9.

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But DF9 is sort of more hard-hitting and a bit more depressing

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than Voyager, you know?

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It's just a good show to lose yourself in.

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And I think you and I, we had some nice but also disparaging

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things to say about Voyager in lineage when we were talking about

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the show, especially me.

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And I want to retract a little bit of that because I've connected

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with this show this week on a way that I haven't for quite some

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time.

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And I just wanted to share that.

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The thing about Voyager is that that's kind of what it's aiming

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for.

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And I think Deep Space 9 is on a trajectory that leads from sort

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of Star Trek, the next generation to Battlestar Galactica, where

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you get more serialised storytelling and a big cast of characters

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who are all kind of well drawn.

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We know how they react.

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And Star Trek was never originally that.

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It was a group of people who were good at various things solving

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space problems.

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And I think Voyager is aiming at that.

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And it does have more serialisation the next gen.

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It's got a more specific premise, the next generation as well.

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And I think that generally it does what it's aiming to reasonably

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well.

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And I think that I have often, the description you've given it

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there.

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I have said that in a critical way.

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And the thing that changed this week is I needed it to be that.

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Yeah.

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And it turned out to be a positive thing.

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You know, so it's not the most ambitious Star Trek.

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Um, you know, and we're going to talk about that in this week's

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episode as to how, you know, things probably could have been done

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a little better.

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But it is fun to watch.

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And sometimes you just need fun to watch.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Look, I mean, we wouldn't be here if we didn't like shows about

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crews of people solving space problems, you know, that's Star Trek

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right?

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And it has occasionally deviated from that and it's gone beyond

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that, but that's the basic idea.

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And I think Voyager is very close to that basic idea.

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Well, I mean, look at it.

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Discovery.

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We talked about this in the Discovery episode where it kicked off

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rejecting that completely.

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But slowly but surely.

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Yeah.

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It's fallen back into the Star Trek pattern for better or for

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worse.

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Yeah.

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And in some ways, for better, I think, you know, in some ways, I

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think it's, because I did last series one.

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But it's not quite a lot of series 3, but you know.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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We're quite lucky because we are discussing a Dr. Heavy episode

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this week.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And we're a president and treasurer of the Robert Picardo fan

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club.

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That's right.

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I'm the janitor.

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You're both the treasurer and the president.

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That's how it works.

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I think he's one of the best actors ever to be in a Star Trek

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crew.

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He's not just the best person on Voyager, probably.

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He is one of the best people ever.

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And we have 2 of him this week, which is pretty great.

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You remember when I said to you, I thought that the cast of

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Voyager is stronger than the cast of TNG.

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Like, if you're going to take a batting average across, yeah

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Picardo raises that average, by about points, you know?

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I think Picardo, Ryan, and Mulgrew.

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Raser average to like an insane degree, you know.

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Yeah, and I, you know, like I think Tim Ross is a great actor.

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I actually think Ethan Phillips is very good at what he's called

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upon to do.

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So sweet that you think that, you know. honestly. really is.

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Well, there were qualifiers there.

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So I do think that that's true.

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And I also think that Star Trek, the Next Generation suffers from

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being the 1st time we try and do Star Trek in a sort of 80s, 90s

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TV environment and we don't know really what we're doing.

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And, you know, eventually I end up having an enormous amount of

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nostalgic affection for those characters.

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But I do think that they do sort of slightly better job at

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assembling a cast once they've already had a go at it once.

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Yeah, and, you know, they kind of definitely lean into like

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massive diversity, don't they, in DS9 and Voyager as well, which I

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really like.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And what I really love about the Voyager cars.

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Sorry, guys, I promise we're all going to...

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We will go to Saul at some point.

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Um, is obviously it's the 1st thing our captain, but there are a

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lot of women in this cast.

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Yeah.

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And they're all really competent characters, you know, this ain't

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your TOS women at a console holding their ears, you know?

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Well, I mean, but even in Star Trek, the next generation, they

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give the women doctor and counsellor, you know, caring profession

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roles.

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I think in DS 9.

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Don't get me wrong.

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Dax, Jazzy Adax, and Kieran and Reese are both.

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I think they're probably 2 of the strongest female characters we

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ever had. they're very masculine, aren't they?

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Like, they're not very feminine at times.

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Well, you know, Dax is kind of sexually aggressive, but in an

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absolutely feminine way.

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And I...

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Yeah, yeah.

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And I do think that that Kira's kind of like her aggression and

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stuff is muted by the fact that she's little and elfin and you

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know, pretty.

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Well, I love the fact every time they try and softener every

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time.

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None of his some fights against it.

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And, you know, and so she's like, no, I'm having a new look next

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year.

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I'm not having that spray on look anymore, you know, with the

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shampooed hair that she had in serious form.

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She cuts all her air off in Sirius 5.

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She goes, well, I have none of that nonsense.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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All right.

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Shall we go for it?

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I think we should.

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Okay, I am going to just get onto the 1st frame.

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I'm paused on the 1st frame of the video and I am going to count

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us in.

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So here goes five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

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We are off.

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Okay, so we get a start date here, which is nice.

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I always need to know when the stardate is and we don't get

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ready.

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You normally drop those at the beginning of the episode.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yep.

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Nope.

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And it's on the website in case you want to know.

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We got to start, we got a star date in Discovery the other day and

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it's massive, huge numbers.

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Oh, yeah, but we went into the future then, don't we?

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Oh, no, here we go.

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The 1st signs of Belana Torres and Tom Paris, and their imminent

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romance, because that's this season, you know, that's hits this

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season.

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So it does strike me as the 1st time.

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I have a problem with the way that Voyager does this and it is

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that they're really shit at talking about romantic relationships

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dialogue is appalling.

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Awful, just awful.

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All that Delaney sister stuff and like it's just kind of creepy

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and like no adults talk like this about their relationship. these

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horrendous metaphors, like, oh, you know, I was at the layby and

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you flew by me at warp speed and stuff like that.

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It's just like... in real life.

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Although she does have a line here where she goes, Freddie Bristol

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is a child.

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I do like that I just like the lime reading.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I mean, look, she's a, she is very good and I don't know if we

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said that last time.

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We certainly definitely should have.

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Yeah, yeah.

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She is good.

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He's less good.

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But this sort of business where he's kind of asking why she

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doesn't seem to bang.

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Like it's just yucky.

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It's a workplace.

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Don't do that.

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What are you doing, you know?

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business, Tom Paris.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Pervert.

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I watched Caretaker this week.

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And in one of his 1st scenes, he's chatting up the baiters, or it

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has taken him to Voyager.

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I'm like, he's a menace.

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Yeah, he's a creep.

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And, but I mean, even at the time, even at a sort of pre-me too

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era, there's just something pathetic and kind of sophomoric about

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the, about the, that dialogue whenever they're talking about sex

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or romantic relationships.

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I mean, I think most dialogues.

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Unfortunately, they're about to be knocked unconscious in a

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painful way, which I think they probably deserve after this

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conversation. by these strange insectoid aliens who I'm fairly

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excited. have a massive impact on Voyager after this episode.

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So that's something that we'll talk about because this episode is

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named after them.

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It's called the swarm. warm.

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Yeah.

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Sounds enticing, don't you think?

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It does.

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It does.

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I've got a feeling there's not even going to be a B-pot this

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week.

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It's just going to be all about the swarm.

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Yeah.

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And they're opening attack on Voyager after with the 4 season arc

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that follows as they head through swarm space.

255
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Well, we were talking, we're doing the opening credits at the

256
00:12:01.139 --> 00:12:01.320
moment.

257
00:12:01.379 --> 00:12:04.860
We were talking about the Videans just before we started

258
00:12:04.860 --> 00:12:05.820
recording.

259
00:12:05.879 --> 00:12:09.659
So DS are the best race Voyager ever created.

260
00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:10.679
Utterly chilling.

261
00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:17.340
And Fage introduces them and makes them a sort of like a very, very

262
00:12:17.340 --> 00:12:19.740
intermittent kind of feature of...

263
00:12:20.580 --> 00:12:22.080
It doesn't make any sense, does it?

264
00:12:22.139 --> 00:12:24.000
I never understand this about Voyager.

265
00:12:24.059 --> 00:12:28.019
Well, because the Vedigen's feature through series one and series

266
00:12:28.019 --> 00:12:28.500
two.

267
00:12:28.559 --> 00:12:30.539
And they must have covered a lot of ground in that time.

268
00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:34.259
Surely they, they, they head out of Vidian space in that time.

269
00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:38.759
Well, I mean, to be fair to Voyager, it does introduce things like

270
00:12:38.759 --> 00:12:43.379
the Hirogen and the 8472 and the Vidians and various other things

271
00:12:43.379 --> 00:12:44.279
the Melon.

272
00:12:44.340 --> 00:12:48.419
And they appear and then they go away after a season because we

273
00:12:48.419 --> 00:12:49.259
move out of their space.

274
00:12:49.379 --> 00:12:51.899
So I think that actually works.

275
00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:53.940
Until series 6 and 7 here.

276
00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:56.340
And then though some of those characters turn up again and you're

277
00:12:56.340 --> 00:12:58.320
like, well, you were pushed.

278
00:12:58.379 --> 00:13:00.960
You were pushed 40,000 light years by kids in the gift.

279
00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:02.039
There's a wormhole.

280
00:13:02.700 --> 00:13:04.259
You know what?

281
00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:06.659
very quickly, must tell you about the mail on, right?

282
00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:09.419
Because I was watching an interview with Kate Mongrew the other

283
00:13:09.419 --> 00:13:13.919
day and the cast of Voyager and she's going, do you remember those

284
00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:14.519
aliens?

285
00:13:14.580 --> 00:13:16.860
Those aliens that look like massive turds.

286
00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:19.559
She was like, and they all just fall about him.

287
00:13:19.620 --> 00:13:21.179
She's like, they were testing us.

288
00:13:21.240 --> 00:13:25.679
They were testing our acting ability to act alongside these men

289
00:13:25.679 --> 00:13:27.539
that looked like big poos.

290
00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:29.460
I was like, oh, Kate Margaret.

291
00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:30.419
I can't love you more.

292
00:13:31.080 --> 00:13:34.200
All right, so these are things.

293
00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:34.919
It's a plot.

294
00:13:34.980 --> 00:13:35.820
It's really great.

295
00:13:35.879 --> 00:13:37.080
So this?

296
00:13:37.080 --> 00:13:39.000
Are you sure this is the A-plot?

297
00:13:39.059 --> 00:13:40.320
I think this is the A-plot.

298
00:13:40.379 --> 00:13:43.679
I think we're both A plots this week. about a similar amount of

299
00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:43.860
time.

300
00:13:44.460 --> 00:13:48.659
Well, except that one of them works really well and the other

301
00:13:48.659 --> 00:13:49.860
one's super disposable.

302
00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:56.399
And I'll let you guess, it's, which is the one that works and...

303
00:13:56.399 --> 00:13:57.179
What do you mean clue?

304
00:13:57.299 --> 00:13:59.039
One of them is disposable.

305
00:13:59.100 --> 00:14:00.960
We're both not about next week.

306
00:14:01.019 --> 00:14:02.220
They're both.

307
00:14:02.279 --> 00:14:04.919
Well, no, I don't think that. we'll get to that because I have a

308
00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:06.600
different opinion about the ending from you, I think.

309
00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:13.139
So this was Picardo's idea, I think, the idea that the doctor

310
00:14:13.139 --> 00:14:16.799
should be interested in opera, because obviously he's a tanner and

311
00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:17.940
he can sing.

312
00:14:19.379 --> 00:14:21.779
And so he sort of brings it in.

313
00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:25.620
He would be aware, I think, that in previous Star Trek, we got, you

314
00:14:25.620 --> 00:14:28.200
know, Jonathan Frakes to play the trombone, because he can do

315
00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:28.440
that.

316
00:14:28.500 --> 00:14:32.879
And Harry Kim, of course, plays the clarinet and then when they

317
00:14:32.879 --> 00:14:35.639
decide to try and make him cool later on, the saxophone.

318
00:14:35.700 --> 00:14:38.759
And so, you know, the actors are bringing their own talents.

319
00:14:38.820 --> 00:14:42.419
And of course, the other... by Avery books in the best of Jets

320
00:14:42.419 --> 00:14:44.220
come in butter being butter bang.

321
00:14:44.279 --> 00:14:44.700
What a voice.

322
00:14:44.759 --> 00:14:45.299
Yeah.

323
00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:48.179
Well, he's got another beautiful tenor voice, I think, of a

324
00:14:48.179 --> 00:14:48.659
different kind.

325
00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:55.320
And I just love this sort of stuff because whenever they mention

326
00:14:55.320 --> 00:14:58.919
someone, like they mentioned famous Soprani, and so they mention

327
00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:03.179
like 2 who are real and then a space soprano from the planet

328
00:15:03.179 --> 00:15:05.460
Vulcan or something is the 3rd one.

329
00:15:06.419 --> 00:15:11.759
Well, I think I think Voyager and Holodecks, or Holo novels, or

330
00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:13.919
whatever they call them, is very hit or miss.

331
00:15:13.980 --> 00:15:14.759
Yeah.

332
00:15:14.759 --> 00:15:19.320
And, um, I don't really like the season long holodeck scenarios

333
00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:21.659
that they do because generally I think it's that dreadful beach

334
00:15:21.659 --> 00:15:26.940
scenario or dreary Lord Burley's manor house, that Gothic romance

335
00:15:26.940 --> 00:15:28.440
or Fairhaven.

336
00:15:28.500 --> 00:15:29.580
You know?

337
00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:34.440
But when they just like duck into like a single scene like this.

338
00:15:34.500 --> 00:15:35.580
This is really fun.

339
00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:39.779
And this is Robert Picardo and an opera diva having a bitch fight

340
00:15:39.779 --> 00:15:41.279
and what could be more glorious than that?

341
00:15:41.340 --> 00:15:44.340
And look how shitty she is with him.

342
00:15:44.399 --> 00:15:48.000
Like, she's absolutely contemptuous in a really, really hilarious

343
00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:48.659
way.

344
00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:50.340
She should have been a recurring character.

345
00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:51.779
She was...

346
00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:53.519
She's wonderful.

347
00:15:53.580 --> 00:16:01.320
Um, but, so this is Picardo can't remember the lyrics and he's a

348
00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:02.159
computer program.

349
00:16:02.220 --> 00:16:05.700
She's already complained that singing with him is like singing

350
00:16:05.700 --> 00:16:06.659
with a computer.

351
00:16:07.620 --> 00:16:14.460
And that's the basis of this plot, even though it's not a big deal

352
00:16:14.460 --> 00:16:15.960
in this scene.

353
00:16:16.019 --> 00:16:19.559
And, you know, the scene is fun just because of the interplay

354
00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:21.960
between these 2 sort of rather obnoxious characters.

355
00:16:22.019 --> 00:16:25.320
But I think it's a nice, it's a cute way of introducing the idea

356
00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:27.240
that he's starting to forget things.

357
00:16:27.299 --> 00:16:28.679
Yeah, yeah.

358
00:16:28.740 --> 00:16:30.240
Oh, I can't imagine a better way.

359
00:16:30.299 --> 00:16:31.559
It's really, really quite good.

360
00:16:31.620 --> 00:16:36.299
And Picardo would go on to have, like, he would sing more opera

361
00:16:36.299 --> 00:16:41.399
but there's a sequence in someone to watch over me where he and

362
00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:44.220
the 7 of 9 sing, You are my sunshine together.

363
00:16:44.279 --> 00:16:48.000
It is one of the most beautiful scenes in Star Trek.

364
00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:48.840
It is glorious.

365
00:16:48.899 --> 00:16:52.259
Because Jerry Ryan sings again, doesn't she?

366
00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:57.059
She sings in the Hirogen 2 parter in a way that I think is usually

367
00:16:57.059 --> 00:16:58.200
is like honey.

368
00:16:58.259 --> 00:16:59.879
It's gorgeous.

369
00:17:01.259 --> 00:17:05.099
And so here we're kind of introducing the relationship between

370
00:17:05.099 --> 00:17:09.720
Bellana and the doctor, which I think is really great and gets a

371
00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:11.039
bit of a go this episode.

372
00:17:11.099 --> 00:17:18.299
You know what's sad is when 7 joins in series 4, B'Elana's

373
00:17:18.299 --> 00:17:21.720
relationship with Janeway is neglected and it's really important

374
00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:25.380
in one to 3 and her relationship with the doctor is neglected in

375
00:17:25.380 --> 00:17:28.619
favour of 7 and Janeway and 7 and the doctor.

376
00:17:28.680 --> 00:17:34.559
And interestingly, in 5 6 and 7, when we're suffering from a bit

377
00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:37.799
of 7 fatigue, because there's been so many episodes about, they

378
00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:40.619
start playing about with it again with Balana and Janeway and

379
00:17:40.619 --> 00:17:41.460
Blana and the doctor.

380
00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:44.880
But yeah, so, but there's that middle period where it's completely

381
00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:46.799
forgotten about kind of a shame.

382
00:17:46.859 --> 00:17:49.680
Yeah, it is a shame because I think the 2 of them are really good

383
00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:52.859
together and we saw them together, of course, a great deal in

384
00:17:52.859 --> 00:17:53.579
lineage.

385
00:17:54.660 --> 00:17:57.420
And here I think they're really good.

386
00:17:57.480 --> 00:18:02.220
There's some really, really great stuff about the doctor's bedside

387
00:18:02.220 --> 00:18:04.440
manner, which is already an issue at this point.

388
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:07.079
It's an issue in episode one.

389
00:18:07.140 --> 00:18:08.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

390
00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:14.640
Do you know, actually, watching season one, I had forgotten how

391
00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:18.299
much of a journey he goes on just in that 1st season, he gets his

392
00:18:18.299 --> 00:18:23.400
1st away mission in heroes and demons, cares, he has that

393
00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:26.160
relationship with cares that starts building, and then she starts

394
00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:27.779
saying people need to be nicer to you.

395
00:18:29.160 --> 00:18:33.539
I've suggested that characters don't develop well on Voyager, but

396
00:18:33.539 --> 00:18:37.500
I've been shocked at how well he's developed in a very short space

397
00:18:37.500 --> 00:18:37.740
of time.

398
00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:42.359
And I think they just realised they had a very valuable actor in

399
00:18:42.359 --> 00:18:42.839
the cast.

400
00:18:42.900 --> 00:18:45.180
I had to give him something to do.

401
00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:46.319
That's right.

402
00:18:46.380 --> 00:18:48.839
No one was thinking that about Robert Beltran, were they?

403
00:18:48.900 --> 00:18:50.279
Oh, right, for things, really.

404
00:18:50.339 --> 00:18:52.380
Actually, you know, they give it up, but it was Lowe's series

405
00:18:52.380 --> 00:18:52.920
one.

406
00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:54.539
Agonising, I'm saying?

407
00:18:54.660 --> 00:18:56.220
He's a good actor.

408
00:18:56.880 --> 00:19:02.400
So this is the A-plot that the episode is named after, and this is

409
00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:03.839
quite tedious, I think.

410
00:19:03.900 --> 00:19:05.700
And it's well, they do this.

411
00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:07.740
They do this again in Scorpion.

412
00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:09.660
Is this like a dry rum?

413
00:19:09.660 --> 00:19:10.619
At the end of this season.

414
00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:13.319
It's like, oh, how do we get through this space?

415
00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:16.140
Because, you know, this is a dangerous region of space.

416
00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:19.920
But in Scorpion, it's genuinely tense and terrifying, whereas here

417
00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:22.079
it's just like, well, there's these bugs flying about, you know

418
00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:22.859
like...

419
00:19:22.859 --> 00:19:28.799
Look, I mean, I have to say that it seems to me that this might

420
00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:32.759
have been a dry run for something, that they might have considered

421
00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:37.140
having the swarm in it again, because it is very much like the

422
00:19:37.140 --> 00:19:39.900
introduction of the other alien species on Voyager.

423
00:19:39.960 --> 00:19:44.460
You know, I hate to contradict you, but we've talked about this

424
00:19:44.460 --> 00:19:44.940
haven't we?

425
00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:49.019
This is the point where Voyager cancelled serialisation.

426
00:19:49.079 --> 00:19:52.380
Series one and two, they had the Cesarat going.

427
00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:54.480
They had pseudor having a couple of appearances.

428
00:19:54.539 --> 00:19:58.380
They had like extra characters like Hogan and Carey and people

429
00:19:58.380 --> 00:20:03.180
like that that dipped in and out of episodes in Basics part two.

430
00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:08.160
They kill off all those extra characters, including Cesca and Suda

431
00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:14.880
and Hogan, who will be back in a later series in sort of dead body

432
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:15.299
form.

433
00:20:15.420 --> 00:20:18.119
Oh that's right. distant origin.

434
00:20:18.180 --> 00:20:19.259
That's a fabulous episode.

435
00:20:19.380 --> 00:20:24.299
But in series 3, it was a deliberate creative choice that we're

436
00:20:24.299 --> 00:20:26.759
not doing serialised, and they fired Michael Pillop.

437
00:20:26.819 --> 00:20:30.359
Michael Pillow left Voyager after basics part one or basic part

438
00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:30.599
two.

439
00:20:30.660 --> 00:20:32.579
And does he ever come back?

440
00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:33.779
Does him gone?

441
00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:35.039
That's him gone from Star Trek.

442
00:20:35.099 --> 00:20:35.400
Wow.

443
00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:39.660
But he wanted it to be serialised and they didn't want to do

444
00:20:39.660 --> 00:20:39.839
that.

445
00:20:39.900 --> 00:20:41.400
They absolutely didn't want to do that.

446
00:20:41.460 --> 00:20:42.240
So they got rid of him.

447
00:20:42.299 --> 00:20:43.500
They brought in Jerry Taylor.

448
00:20:43.500 --> 00:20:44.819
And she wants movie of the week.

449
00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:46.559
She wants TNG light.

450
00:20:46.619 --> 00:20:51.420
And Voyager can do TNG light because this is... well made and

451
00:20:51.420 --> 00:20:52.140
entertaining.

452
00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:53.700
Yeah, yeah.

453
00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:57.359
But I think the show was more interesting at the tail end of

454
00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:00.180
series 2, where it had those running plots.

455
00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:02.640
I mean Cesca, for God's sake.

456
00:21:02.700 --> 00:21:03.720
So great.

457
00:21:03.779 --> 00:21:04.799
Hello.

458
00:21:04.859 --> 00:21:06.240
Hello, Jakotay.

459
00:21:06.299 --> 00:21:08.940
Here's your here's your baby, Chakotay.

460
00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:11.279
Oh my gosh, she's right.

461
00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:16.980
Ah, do you know, I actually feel, I'm quite be honest with you

462
00:21:16.980 --> 00:21:17.339
want to.

463
00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:19.920
I think Kaz is a little underrated, you know.

464
00:21:19.980 --> 00:21:23.400
Do you know, I was thinking that as well, and I was going to ask

465
00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:27.299
you, this little interchange here, where the doctor complains

466
00:21:27.299 --> 00:21:31.980
about how all the sopranos are obnoxious and arrogant and

467
00:21:31.980 --> 00:21:32.819
dismissing.

468
00:21:34.019 --> 00:21:35.940
He's so great.

469
00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:41.460
And so she gets a really, really good role here, and I think she

470
00:21:41.460 --> 00:21:42.180
does it really well.

471
00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:45.119
She's the youngest member of the crew because she's what, 4 or

472
00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:47.279
something. sort of super weird.

473
00:21:47.339 --> 00:21:54.240
But so she gets to be in the position of his daughter.

474
00:21:54.299 --> 00:21:59.160
Like, she's basically the nurse, she's his assistant, and he's

475
00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:03.119
been training her, and I think that's a more successful and

476
00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:06.119
interesting relationship than the one between her and Neelix, which

477
00:22:06.119 --> 00:22:06.960
I think is obnoxious.

478
00:22:07.019 --> 00:22:08.579
That is horrendous.

479
00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:11.519
In fact, they split up between episodes.

480
00:22:11.579 --> 00:22:13.740
They don't even have the scene where they split up.

481
00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:17.220
She's just like, no, I've had enough now, you know.

482
00:22:17.279 --> 00:22:21.420
Um, I'm not going to say that I think Jennifer at the end is a

483
00:22:21.420 --> 00:22:23.519
terrible actress because I think she's good.

484
00:22:23.579 --> 00:22:24.599
I don't think she's great.

485
00:22:24.660 --> 00:22:28.619
I think she's good, but I think some actors will wait another one

486
00:22:28.619 --> 00:22:32.160
is when they're in the proximity of fantastic actors.

487
00:22:32.220 --> 00:22:33.420
They raise their game.

488
00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:34.200
Yeah.

489
00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:35.940
It's the Matthew Waterhouse effect.

490
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:40.619
But she, because she's sort of little and elephant, but she has

491
00:22:40.619 --> 00:22:47.160
that deep voice, I think, I think, and she does sort of concern

492
00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:48.119
very well.

493
00:22:48.180 --> 00:22:55.380
And so here, so this plot is a space plot where the doctor's

494
00:22:55.380 --> 00:22:56.460
computer program goes wrong.

495
00:22:56.519 --> 00:23:04.559
But it's done, obviously, as sort of, um, a sort of analogy to

496
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:05.579
dementia.

497
00:23:06.059 --> 00:23:12.119
And that thing where you end up having to parent your own parents

498
00:23:12.119 --> 00:23:16.799
like your parents reach a certain age and they're sick or whatever

499
00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:18.119
or they're confused.

500
00:23:18.119 --> 00:23:22.799
And then you find yourself having to look after them.

501
00:23:22.859 --> 00:23:24.480
And in that scene that we've just had.

502
00:23:24.539 --> 00:23:30.599
Because we get the doctor, sort of degenerates during this, during

503
00:23:30.599 --> 00:23:31.559
this episode.

504
00:23:31.619 --> 00:23:38.400
And what we've just seen is him trying to cover up that his memory

505
00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:41.099
is not working properly, trying to hide it.

506
00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:44.880
And then you've got her trying to help him out without

507
00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:46.259
embarrassing him.

508
00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:48.299
And all of that stuff.

509
00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:51.180
There's a real proper realism to that.

510
00:23:51.240 --> 00:23:53.400
And we talked about this before.

511
00:23:53.460 --> 00:23:58.680
It's TV realism, but, you know, I think that's why this lands.

512
00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:03.420
Yeah, well, and I think you've got the previous 2 seasons of their

513
00:24:03.420 --> 00:24:08.039
developing relationship backing this up and giving it some like

514
00:24:08.039 --> 00:24:09.480
you know, emotional wallop.

515
00:24:09.539 --> 00:24:13.920
But what I love about her in this is when she gets angry.

516
00:24:13.980 --> 00:24:17.700
And when, you know, when she comes at Zimmerman later in the

517
00:24:17.700 --> 00:24:20.700
episode and she's like, no, you're going to sort this out, I care

518
00:24:20.700 --> 00:24:21.240
about him.

519
00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:24.299
And they're all talking about him like, oh, we're just going to

520
00:24:24.299 --> 00:24:25.559
delete his subroutines.

521
00:24:25.619 --> 00:24:29.819
She's like, no, he's a person, like, like, who's had experiences.

522
00:24:29.819 --> 00:24:33.240
And she's the one, she's the one that's fought for that for those

523
00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:36.119
2 years. you know, he's got rights, he's a person.

524
00:24:36.180 --> 00:24:37.920
Treat him well, you know.

525
00:24:37.980 --> 00:24:42.000
And in return, I watched a lovely episode the other day where she

526
00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:45.119
says, oh, I want to study anatomy and he's like, well, it gives

527
00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:48.119
her these pads and he's like, well, it's very complicated and he

528
00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:50.640
doesn't look at all sure that she's going to, and she comes back

529
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:52.500
the next day and says, well, I've read all those.

530
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:53.339
What else you got?

531
00:24:53.460 --> 00:24:54.180
You know?

532
00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:59.160
And but that paternal thing of him looking at her. and being like

533
00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:00.059
a proud father.

534
00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:01.500
It's gorgeous.

535
00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:03.539
And I think with cares.

536
00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:09.180
When they lean into the accompan thing, it's a bit Star Trek and

537
00:25:09.180 --> 00:25:13.259
tedious and, you know, I'm psychic and I've got mental powers and

538
00:25:13.259 --> 00:25:16.980
all this, when they do the relationship with her and the doctor

539
00:25:16.980 --> 00:25:18.539
she really sings as a character.

540
00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:19.380
Yeah.

541
00:25:19.380 --> 00:25:20.279
Yeah.

542
00:25:20.339 --> 00:25:24.779
Yeah, I always think those high concept characters end up being a

543
00:25:24.779 --> 00:25:28.799
bit of a mistake and I'm happy when they just turn into people.

544
00:25:28.859 --> 00:25:31.440
Do you know who's the exception to the rule there?

545
00:25:31.500 --> 00:25:32.819
Who?

546
00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:35.039
I think Odo might be the exception to the rule.

547
00:25:35.099 --> 00:25:36.059
Yeah, maybe.

548
00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:36.720
Yeah, yeah.

549
00:25:36.779 --> 00:25:39.720
But then you've got an actor of such calibre there.

550
00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:44.759
Oh, see, look, this is she is his daughter at this point.

551
00:25:44.819 --> 00:25:49.319
And it's worth saying that the doctor's 1st reaction to this

552
00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:53.519
problem is that he should be initialised and have his memory wiped

553
00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:57.420
and she she's the one who tells him no.

554
00:25:57.480 --> 00:26:01.079
And this is a thing that we've litigated on Star Trek before.

555
00:26:01.140 --> 00:26:05.160
So series 2 of Star Trek and the Next Generation has Measure of a

556
00:26:05.160 --> 00:26:11.460
Man, where data is confirmed to be a human being rather than the

557
00:26:11.460 --> 00:26:14.940
property of Starfleet, despite not being a real person, despite

558
00:26:14.940 --> 00:26:16.380
being something constructed.

559
00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:18.839
The doctor is just a computer program.

560
00:26:18.900 --> 00:26:22.259
We don't really relitigated in quite the same way, although

561
00:26:22.259 --> 00:26:28.259
towards the end of the show's run, being a hologram becomes, you

562
00:26:28.259 --> 00:26:31.079
know, they become oppressed, don't they?

563
00:26:31.140 --> 00:26:32.099
There are a lot of.

564
00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:34.500
It becomes a rights issue, doesn't it?

565
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:35.700
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

566
00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:36.000
Yeah.

567
00:26:36.059 --> 00:26:39.299
Like gay rights or kind of racial equality or whatever.

568
00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:41.339
So it's uses analogy for that.

569
00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:45.539
What changes is his status within this environment.

570
00:26:45.660 --> 00:26:48.539
So it's less about how holograms are treated as a whole.

571
00:26:48.660 --> 00:26:51.119
They respect him by the end of the series.

572
00:26:51.180 --> 00:26:55.079
He's captaining the ship in series 6 and seven, you know?

573
00:26:55.140 --> 00:26:56.400
The ECH.

574
00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:58.619
That's right.

575
00:26:58.680 --> 00:26:59.460
I remember that.

576
00:26:59.519 --> 00:27:01.140
Oh, and this.

577
00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:05.880
So this is really great as well, because the doctor, the doctor

578
00:27:05.880 --> 00:27:08.279
invading her personal space.

579
00:27:09.539 --> 00:27:14.279
But he's distressed in a way that he isn't normally too.

580
00:27:14.339 --> 00:27:18.960
Like, um, and he complains about her her bedside manner.

581
00:27:19.619 --> 00:27:23.039
His comic timing is sublime, isn't it?

582
00:27:23.099 --> 00:27:25.200
Like and he's funny with a look.

583
00:27:25.259 --> 00:27:28.799
Not all actors can be funny with a look, you know.

584
00:27:28.859 --> 00:27:34.440
But despite playing this for comedy, he is also clearly visibly

585
00:27:34.440 --> 00:27:38.640
kind of upset and a bit distressed.

586
00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:42.240
You know what this could have been, because this is a dementia, and

587
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:46.740
this could have been very part and in extreme port taste.

588
00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:50.700
And I think you needed to hand it to one of the better actors on

589
00:27:50.700 --> 00:27:52.859
this show for it to land.

590
00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:58.140
And it, there's a scene later on, which you and I discussed before

591
00:27:58.140 --> 00:28:01.980
where he says, um, in a very childlike way, this is a sick man.

592
00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:03.779
This is where sick men come.

593
00:28:03.900 --> 00:28:06.359
And that could have been played, like, I can imagine, like, I

594
00:28:06.359 --> 00:28:08.400
don't know, Robert Duncan, it was saying those lines.

595
00:28:08.460 --> 00:28:12.720
And he plays it with an innocence that is heartbreaking.

596
00:28:12.779 --> 00:28:14.039
Like, yeah.

597
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:15.839
I'm pleased.

598
00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:16.619
I'm pleased.

599
00:28:16.619 --> 00:28:17.640
Picardo's playing this.

600
00:28:17.700 --> 00:28:21.420
I think Jennifer Lien also sells that scene. will definitely get

601
00:28:21.420 --> 00:28:21.839
to that.

602
00:28:21.900 --> 00:28:27.240
So now we're, uh, McKinley's very generic. yeah.

603
00:28:27.299 --> 00:28:32.279
It's generic beige next generation era set.

604
00:28:32.400 --> 00:28:35.759
Look at all those buttons all over the walls and all the console

605
00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:37.619
honestly, what do they all do?

606
00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:38.819
I know.

607
00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:41.039
You just need a laptop, for God's sake.

608
00:28:41.099 --> 00:28:42.059
It does seem unnecessary.

609
00:28:42.119 --> 00:28:43.319
Imagine having to walk over there.

610
00:28:43.380 --> 00:28:45.720
Oh, you interact with Microsoft Word.

611
00:28:45.779 --> 00:28:48.960
When I was a child, this was the most sophisticated technology I

612
00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:50.400
could ever imagine in the world, you know.

613
00:28:50.460 --> 00:28:51.480
Yeah.

614
00:28:51.539 --> 00:28:52.680
Yeah.

615
00:28:52.740 --> 00:28:59.220
Oh, and look, there is another Robert Picardo just, um, like he

616
00:28:59.220 --> 00:29:00.299
rolls into shot.

617
00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:02.700
I've got to up his chair back.

618
00:29:02.759 --> 00:29:03.720
A question for you.

619
00:29:03.779 --> 00:29:06.420
What's the only thing that's better than Robert Picardo being in

620
00:29:06.420 --> 00:29:06.779
the scene?

621
00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:08.700
Oh, yeah, 2 or three.

622
00:29:08.819 --> 00:29:09.599
Did we have that?

623
00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:14.460
No, no, we get 2 Rob Micardos and 2 Alexander Siddigs in Dr

624
00:29:14.460 --> 00:29:16.740
Bashiro Zoom, which is hilarious.

625
00:29:16.859 --> 00:29:21.660
And they do this. this works well enough that they repeat this in

626
00:29:21.660 --> 00:29:25.079
series 6 and have a whole episode where it's the doctor in

627
00:29:25.079 --> 00:29:25.980
Zimmerman together.

628
00:29:26.220 --> 00:29:31.859
So towards the end, and they do kind of regain the idea that they

629
00:29:31.859 --> 00:29:35.099
should do some serialisation because we obviously have this

630
00:29:35.099 --> 00:29:39.960
ongoing thing with their ability to communicate with Earth.

631
00:29:40.079 --> 00:29:42.240
And yeah, yeah, yeah.

632
00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:44.819
I mean, I feel like they're kind of lent into that a lot more than

633
00:29:44.819 --> 00:29:45.180
they do.

634
00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:48.660
But whenever they do, it has that kind of emotional resonance, that

635
00:29:48.660 --> 00:29:50.099
Voyager lacks a lot of the time.

636
00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:50.940
Yeah.

637
00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:53.160
And it's got Diana as well, and she's fantastic.

638
00:29:53.220 --> 00:29:54.720
Oh, Jesus.

639
00:29:54.779 --> 00:29:55.319
Oh.

640
00:29:55.380 --> 00:29:57.299
He put his hand on his shoulder there.

641
00:29:57.359 --> 00:29:58.440
That's quite well done.

642
00:29:58.500 --> 00:30:01.500
Do you remember in Renaissance man in series 7?

643
00:30:01.559 --> 00:30:05.759
They do the ultimate Robert Picardo thing where the whole thing is

644
00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:07.920
about copies of Robert Picardo all over the ship.

645
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:10.799
And then as I say, he walks into the holodeck and there's

646
00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:12.900
literally like 1000s of Robert Picardo.

647
00:30:14.220 --> 00:30:18.900
It's the best voyager ever was, a 1000 Robert Kicardos.

648
00:30:20.099 --> 00:30:21.660
Very funny.

649
00:30:21.779 --> 00:30:26.759
And he really, really differentiates Zimmerman, because Zimmerman

650
00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:28.799
is more obnoxious than the doctor.

651
00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:33.539
And in this situation, because Zimmerman's got the sort of, you

652
00:30:33.539 --> 00:30:38.460
know, crappy, actually I quite like that linen lab coat or

653
00:30:38.460 --> 00:30:41.400
whatever he's wearing over his uniform, but he just looks crumpled

654
00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:43.380
and his hair's a mess and stuff like that.

655
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:47.160
And so the doctor suddenly becomes the good version of this

656
00:30:47.220 --> 00:30:51.779
terrifying is how she plays against the 2 of them as well.

657
00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:54.599
Like, there's clearly 2 very different relationships going on.

658
00:30:54.660 --> 00:30:57.059
But what I really like as well is Zimmerman.

659
00:30:57.119 --> 00:31:01.380
He's only in about 3 scenes in this story, 3 or 4 scenes.

660
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:05.220
He goes on a little journey as well, wherein in the end, like, you

661
00:31:05.220 --> 00:31:09.599
know, here, you would never foresee him sacrificing himself to, so

662
00:31:09.599 --> 00:31:10.619
the doctor can survive.

663
00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:13.259
But by the end, it's very plausible how it's played out.

664
00:31:13.319 --> 00:31:14.579
Yeah.

665
00:31:14.700 --> 00:31:18.299
So shout out to 2 things.

666
00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:24.359
We've talked before about, I'm a doctor, not an ex, which is

667
00:31:24.359 --> 00:31:27.119
really Picardo's thing more than McCoy.

668
00:31:27.180 --> 00:31:30.480
So McCoy would say, you know, I'm a doctor, not a magician, but

669
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:36.839
one of the comedy, you know, one of the comedy bits that the

670
00:31:36.839 --> 00:31:39.539
doctor does is I'm a doctor, not an ex, and there's a whole

671
00:31:39.539 --> 00:31:40.380
variety of things.

672
00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:41.700
Here we get 2 of them.

673
00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:46.019
I think Zimmerman says of the doctor, he's a doctor, not a tenor.

674
00:31:46.019 --> 00:31:53.220
And Zimmerman says of himself, I'm a diagnostic tool, not an

675
00:31:53.220 --> 00:31:55.500
engineer, which I think is also pretty great.

676
00:31:55.619 --> 00:31:58.740
Okay, well, I'm going to say, to the boring B plot.

677
00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:00.059
Massively controversial.

678
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:05.819
I think the doctor, Robert Picardo's doctor, is probably the best

679
00:32:05.819 --> 00:32:09.359
doctor in of all of Star Trek, all the franchise.

680
00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:11.940
And the best actor as well.

681
00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:12.779
Tahana?

682
00:32:12.839 --> 00:32:13.980
Who's that?

683
00:32:14.039 --> 00:32:16.740
The cat, doctor on left.

684
00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:19.200
That's not good as Picardo.

685
00:32:19.259 --> 00:32:21.960
Even De Forrest Kelly isn't as good as Picardo.

686
00:32:22.019 --> 00:32:22.500
Pretty great.

687
00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:24.359
Do you know what?

688
00:32:24.420 --> 00:32:27.839
I'm actually realising now watching this alongside you, just how

689
00:32:27.839 --> 00:32:29.460
dull these scenes are in comparison.

690
00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:31.200
Yeah, there's nothing to them.

691
00:32:31.259 --> 00:32:34.980
And basically, what that plot's got to recommend is special effect

692
00:32:34.980 --> 00:32:36.599
sequences at the end, isn't it?

693
00:32:36.660 --> 00:32:38.819
The CGI swarm attacking the ship.

694
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:42.059
But I mean, this is all just techno babble.

695
00:32:42.119 --> 00:32:42.900
Like, what are we doing?

696
00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:44.579
We're just talking space things here.

697
00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:46.440
There's no proper resolution.

698
00:32:46.500 --> 00:32:50.579
They press the right buttons and get through the space thing.

699
00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:55.200
Like, you know, I said this was, this was like a take one of this

700
00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:57.119
idea in Scorpion.

701
00:32:57.180 --> 00:33:00.119
The drama is there's no techno-babble.

702
00:33:00.180 --> 00:33:02.759
The drama comes from the fact that Janeway is saying we should do

703
00:33:02.759 --> 00:33:06.299
this and Jakotay is saying that we shouldn't and they have a

704
00:33:06.299 --> 00:33:09.180
massive blowout and it's amazingly good.

705
00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:10.740
It's like the tension is terrific.

706
00:33:11.160 --> 00:33:13.380
Yeah, there's none of this.

707
00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:16.140
Oh, well, you know, we'll push the warp factor too, blah, blah

708
00:33:16.140 --> 00:33:22.019
blah, blah, you know, like, this comes with the territory, but

709
00:33:22.019 --> 00:33:24.180
this is not, this is not why I watched Archer, though.

710
00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:27.119
I know I know people that have tech manuals and things like that

711
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:29.700
and there is that element of fandom here.

712
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:32.519
And trust me, they get, you know, bang for their buck with Next

713
00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:33.599
Generation Voyager.

714
00:33:34.380 --> 00:33:38.880
But I mean, think about we did the Corba Mite maneuver, which is

715
00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:42.000
kind of in a sense the 1st regular episode of Star Trek ever

716
00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:42.359
made.

717
00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:46.079
And that is them being threatened by space objects and all sitting

718
00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:51.839
on the bridge, but the drama doesn't come at all from Technobabble

719
00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:53.700
because they haven't really properly invented that yet.

720
00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:58.859
It is all about, you know, the kind of standoff and about the sort

721
00:33:58.859 --> 00:34:01.980
of mounting tension among the bridge cruise.

722
00:34:02.039 --> 00:34:03.180
Mysterious object.

723
00:34:03.240 --> 00:34:04.980
You just want to say that line again, don't you?

724
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:05.880
That's what you brought.

725
00:34:05.940 --> 00:34:07.740
And now that's Tranya.

726
00:34:07.799 --> 00:34:08.099
Sorry.

727
00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:14.820
But, but, you know, we're in the same situation here.

728
00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:17.280
We're facing an enemy that we don't properly understand.

729
00:34:17.340 --> 00:34:19.320
They're super alien.

730
00:34:19.380 --> 00:34:22.139
We've got to get through their space, but they're a threat.

731
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:23.519
How do we deal with them?

732
00:34:23.579 --> 00:34:26.099
And it seems that we deal with them by sitting around pressing

733
00:34:26.099 --> 00:34:27.780
buttons and talking about.

734
00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:28.500
Don't they?

735
00:34:28.619 --> 00:34:31.739
We've played it out in TNG so many times where it's like, oh, it's

736
00:34:31.739 --> 00:34:34.739
an unloaned alien language and yet somehow they managed to

737
00:34:34.739 --> 00:34:35.460
decipher it.

738
00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:39.239
They get a few lines of like, I don't know, suck the power and

739
00:34:39.239 --> 00:34:39.659
attack.

740
00:34:40.380 --> 00:34:41.460
They're coming after us.

741
00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:44.219
There's an action sequence where they all land on Voyager.

742
00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:45.780
They sour the milk the end.

743
00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:48.780
It's like, it's just, it's so disposable, isn't it?

744
00:34:48.840 --> 00:34:49.860
Yeah, exactly.

745
00:34:49.980 --> 00:34:52.019
There's really nothing to her.

746
00:34:52.139 --> 00:34:59.579
Um, You're supposed to be off during your off hours.

747
00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:02.880
Well, they do they do this a couple of times as well, you know

748
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:06.420
like, um, so we meet holographic characters throughout Voyages Run

749
00:35:06.420 --> 00:35:09.179
and there's a comparison made with the experiences that the

750
00:35:09.179 --> 00:35:12.119
doctors had and the lack of it.

751
00:35:12.179 --> 00:35:14.280
So there's the guy in a message in a bottle.

752
00:35:14.340 --> 00:35:15.360
What's his name?

753
00:35:15.420 --> 00:35:17.460
Is it Robert Dick?

754
00:35:17.519 --> 00:35:18.480
is a comedian.

755
00:35:18.539 --> 00:35:20.820
It's the one where they're on...

756
00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:21.179
That it.

757
00:35:21.239 --> 00:35:23.039
They're on their Romulan ship.

758
00:35:23.099 --> 00:35:25.440
And they have the same scene as here where he says, you know, oh

759
00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:26.039
you've had sex.

760
00:35:26.099 --> 00:35:28.380
You know, you've experienced romance.

761
00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:30.420
And you realise how far he's come.

762
00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:31.619
Yeah.

763
00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:32.400
Yeah.

764
00:35:32.460 --> 00:35:33.900
Yeah, here it is.

765
00:35:33.960 --> 00:35:35.400
He was a program to be a tenor.

766
00:35:35.460 --> 00:35:36.659
He was programmed to be a physician.

767
00:35:39.719 --> 00:35:42.179
And nothing about cares as well in this season, right?

768
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:43.980
is they let her grow up in this season.

769
00:35:44.039 --> 00:35:47.519
So she dumps Neelix.

770
00:35:47.639 --> 00:35:51.599
They let her, her hair goes, like she grows her hair and it goes

771
00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:51.840
down.

772
00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:53.940
She looks like a woman rather than a child.

773
00:35:53.940 --> 00:35:58.320
I would have been so interested to see where she would have gone

774
00:35:58.320 --> 00:36:00.719
in four, five, 6 and seven.

775
00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:05.039
And like there's no reason why they had to write her out to bring

776
00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:06.059
Jerry Ryan in.

777
00:36:06.119 --> 00:36:07.860
They could have just had more women, you know?

778
00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:08.760
Yeah, yeah.

779
00:36:08.820 --> 00:36:12.539
I mean, they added a regular character to the cast of Deep Space

780
00:36:12.539 --> 00:36:12.960
9.

781
00:36:13.019 --> 00:36:15.780
Like they expanded the cast when Worf arrived.

782
00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:17.340
He doesn't replace anyone.

783
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:21.239
Well, look at by the end, the secondary cast is bloated beyond, you

784
00:36:21.239 --> 00:36:22.920
know, like this cast is enormous.

785
00:36:23.340 --> 00:36:29.099
I have a suspicion that the reason that Kes grows her hair out is

786
00:36:29.099 --> 00:36:32.699
to save the makeup artist's time with the ears.

787
00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:34.139
Okay.

788
00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:39.300
I mean, that does, yeah, that makes sense, but it does, it feels

789
00:36:39.300 --> 00:36:40.920
like a progression of her character, though.

790
00:36:40.980 --> 00:36:42.599
It does feel like she's growing up.

791
00:36:42.659 --> 00:36:46.260
I mean, she starts having like other romances this season and her

792
00:36:46.260 --> 00:36:47.940
powers are being explored more.

793
00:36:48.059 --> 00:36:50.460
And then in series four, the 2nd episode, the gift.

794
00:36:50.519 --> 00:36:51.300
The gift.

795
00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:55.440
It's it's one of the most female centred episodes of Star Trek

796
00:36:55.440 --> 00:37:00.840
ever because the A plot is Janeway and 7 and the B plot is Janeway

797
00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:02.039
and Kez.

798
00:37:02.099 --> 00:37:04.380
And it's just brilliant.

799
00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:05.760
It's really, really good.

800
00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:08.280
And I'm like, oh, this is what the show could have been like, you

801
00:37:08.280 --> 00:37:09.239
know, from this point on.

802
00:37:09.300 --> 00:37:09.900
All these women.

803
00:37:10.139 --> 00:37:13.260
We don't, we don't need to, we don't need to worry about Harry Kim

804
00:37:13.260 --> 00:37:14.579
and Tom Harris.

805
00:37:14.639 --> 00:37:15.840
Chakotay?

806
00:37:15.900 --> 00:37:16.860
Neelix?

807
00:37:16.920 --> 00:37:18.000
Sorry, not Neelix.

808
00:37:18.780 --> 00:37:20.579
Oh, dear.

809
00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:22.139
Yeah, it is a thing, isn't it?

810
00:37:22.199 --> 00:37:26.460
I mean, I think Harry's really pretty but he doesn't go anywhere.

811
00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:30.960
I think, you know, I don't like Robert Duncan McNeil very much.

812
00:37:31.019 --> 00:37:33.239
It's basically the doctor, isn't it?

813
00:37:33.300 --> 00:37:36.119
It's the dog so who's the interesting male character in this.

814
00:37:36.179 --> 00:37:38.219
And the women.

815
00:37:38.699 --> 00:37:42.119
I mean, I think Tim Ross's Tuvok is really pretty great.

816
00:37:42.599 --> 00:37:45.179
He said in that Voyager reunion.

817
00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:47.820
He said, um, what did I do in that episode?

818
00:37:47.880 --> 00:37:51.780
Was I at the tactical console saying they're coming towards us and

819
00:37:51.780 --> 00:37:52.619
fire torpedoes?

820
00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:53.760
I did that a lot.

821
00:37:53.880 --> 00:37:55.920
Yeah, he really did.

822
00:37:56.039 --> 00:37:57.719
It was a big waste, wasn't it?

823
00:37:57.780 --> 00:37:58.619
Holy shit.

824
00:37:58.679 --> 00:37:59.280
Look at this.

825
00:38:01.260 --> 00:38:03.659
What is up with that?

826
00:38:03.659 --> 00:38:04.079
Okay.

827
00:38:04.139 --> 00:38:07.139
This is something I noticed in series one and it's very apparent

828
00:38:07.139 --> 00:38:10.559
on the screen right now. is they're taking a bloody piss, aren't

829
00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:11.639
they, with some of these aliens?

830
00:38:11.699 --> 00:38:13.260
Concepts.

831
00:38:13.320 --> 00:38:18.119
This guy is got, I mean, how would you describe his face, Nathan?

832
00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:23.219
Well, he looks like a sort of, I don't know, like, I guess he's

833
00:38:23.219 --> 00:38:27.539
sort of a bit Klingon skull thing, but he's also kind of like

834
00:38:27.539 --> 00:38:30.900
leader of a bikey gang, perhaps as well.

835
00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:33.480
Massive hair that looks like it's been crimped.

836
00:38:33.539 --> 00:38:34.860
Yes, yeah.

837
00:38:34.920 --> 00:38:36.420
It's really shit.

838
00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:38.340
I don't know what's going on here.

839
00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:39.599
So he's...

840
00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:42.360
You know, when Kate Mulgrew said, well, they try to test us as

841
00:38:42.360 --> 00:38:42.900
actors.

842
00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:44.159
This is one of those things.

843
00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:45.659
That's right.

844
00:38:45.719 --> 00:38:51.119
Look at look at Kate desperately trying to retain composure while

845
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:54.360
acting opposite this giant lump of latex.

846
00:38:54.420 --> 00:38:55.679
It's so terrible.

847
00:38:55.739 --> 00:38:57.900
And it's a messenger speech.

848
00:38:57.960 --> 00:39:01.079
I mean, you know, we don't get to see their ship get destroyed or

849
00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:01.739
anything like that.

850
00:39:01.800 --> 00:39:05.579
It's just him saying, oh, and, you know, they killed us all and

851
00:39:05.579 --> 00:39:08.519
this is trying to do the stakes, but it's doing it in such a kind

852
00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:10.260
of half arse and in that way.

853
00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:12.599
People's looking at the other actors in the screen because, you

854
00:39:12.599 --> 00:39:14.880
know, she's going to go if she keeps looking at that alien.

855
00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:18.780
It's funny too, this, right?

856
00:39:18.840 --> 00:39:23.099
Because you've got this undercooked alien plot and you've got

857
00:39:23.099 --> 00:39:29.219
quite a well-developed and, you know, reasonable, uh, BB plot. yeah

858
00:39:29.219 --> 00:39:29.519
yeah.

859
00:39:29.579 --> 00:39:31.679
And they intersect here.

860
00:39:31.739 --> 00:39:35.579
And I found myself wondering what the hell they thought the swarm

861
00:39:35.579 --> 00:39:41.340
thing was for, because I think they devote too much time to it

862
00:39:41.340 --> 00:39:41.820
perhaps.

863
00:39:41.940 --> 00:39:43.619
Oh, I can tell you it was four.

864
00:39:43.679 --> 00:39:45.719
I can absolutely tell you. do you think it's for?

865
00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:46.440
special effects?

866
00:39:46.500 --> 00:39:49.380
No, it's to fill to fill time of this episode, you know?

867
00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:53.400
Whereas imagine it, it was just the A-plot in this and we explored

868
00:39:53.400 --> 00:39:53.940
that a bit more.

869
00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:58.739
Well, I mean, the thing is that we need the doctor to have to do

870
00:39:58.739 --> 00:40:03.300
medical things during the course of the episode so that we can see

871
00:40:03.300 --> 00:40:06.599
how his dementia is affecting his ability to work, right?

872
00:40:06.659 --> 00:40:08.159
So he needs for doing that.

873
00:40:08.219 --> 00:40:10.980
He could be doing just sort of boring things because, you know

874
00:40:10.980 --> 00:40:14.460
someone comes in with a headache or or, you know, something.

875
00:40:14.579 --> 00:40:19.739
But instead, we give, we have to give him high stake stuff.

876
00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:22.320
And this is this scene here that we were talking about before

877
00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:25.139
where the doctor's doing his sort of pack-led thing.

878
00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:28.260
You know, it is really heartbreaking.

879
00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:31.739
It's the, you know, this this is where sick people come.

880
00:40:31.860 --> 00:40:35.039
Shall I use it on the sick man and he doesn't realise that the man

881
00:40:35.039 --> 00:40:35.639
is dead.

882
00:40:35.699 --> 00:40:44.039
Um, and, like, like, there's a sort of comedy to it, finding the

883
00:40:44.039 --> 00:40:44.579
instrument.

884
00:40:44.639 --> 00:40:46.619
Yeah, but necessary action.

885
00:40:46.679 --> 00:40:47.460
No.

886
00:40:47.519 --> 00:40:49.320
Guess his reaction.

887
00:40:49.380 --> 00:40:52.260
Like, in a way, it's funny. you know, this is where sick people

888
00:40:52.260 --> 00:40:52.619
come.

889
00:40:52.679 --> 00:40:54.960
It's kind of funny seeing the doctor like that.

890
00:40:55.320 --> 00:41:00.960
And he's sort of trying to wring laughs from it in a way, but it's

891
00:41:00.960 --> 00:41:02.760
it's uncomfortable as well.

892
00:41:02.820 --> 00:41:05.880
And Cass is really properly selling how terrible it is.

893
00:41:05.940 --> 00:41:08.039
And you see we are back in the other plot.

894
00:41:08.159 --> 00:41:12.239
Yeah, but this is the 1st point where this plot is, I wouldn't, I'm

895
00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:13.019
going to say interesting.

896
00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:14.340
That's overselling it.

897
00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:17.579
But like we've had a visual now of one of the little swarm ships

898
00:41:17.579 --> 00:41:21.539
and it's about to get, it's, you know, visually interesting, if

899
00:41:21.539 --> 00:41:23.880
not interesting bull stop.

900
00:41:23.940 --> 00:41:29.400
Yeah, I mean, so like the concept is that they're like insects and

901
00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:32.880
so they look like kind of cockroaches and they all land on the

902
00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:39.179
ship and they're like, they're like a, they're like bees in a

903
00:41:39.179 --> 00:41:40.380
way.

904
00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:45.300
Speech is someone whose husband's a beekeeper.

905
00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:49.260
You know how they say like people came into the office and pitched

906
00:41:49.260 --> 00:41:50.880
ideas and that's how these things go.

907
00:41:50.940 --> 00:41:51.719
You'd sell an idea.

908
00:41:51.780 --> 00:41:55.380
What about, you know, Voyager versus the insect swarm.

909
00:41:55.440 --> 00:41:57.960
You know, they probably were like, yes, we can absolutely do

910
00:41:57.960 --> 00:42:00.780
something like, we can have 20 minutes of techno babble and then a

911
00:42:00.780 --> 00:42:01.920
swarm at the end, you know.

912
00:42:01.980 --> 00:42:07.139
But, I mean, so they are xenophobic.

913
00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:10.679
They will attack you if you enter their space, so they present an

914
00:42:10.679 --> 00:42:12.059
obstacle to Voyager.

915
00:42:12.239 --> 00:42:15.119
They are incomprehensible.

916
00:42:15.179 --> 00:42:16.500
They're like insects.

917
00:42:16.559 --> 00:42:18.420
There's a potential for them to be scary.

918
00:42:18.480 --> 00:42:19.800
But there's no voice.

919
00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:22.679
So you can't really engage with them.

920
00:42:22.739 --> 00:42:24.780
Like, even in the Corp might maneuver.

921
00:42:24.840 --> 00:42:29.820
There was that great threatening voice that came in, you know, and

922
00:42:29.820 --> 00:42:31.559
so you could have some...

923
00:42:31.559 --> 00:42:33.000
Yeah, like the Borg?

924
00:42:33.059 --> 00:42:35.820
Yeah, you had Locutus or the Four Queen.

925
00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:37.679
This is just that voice.

926
00:42:37.739 --> 00:42:40.320
Remember, the voice comes in and says we shall add our

927
00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:42.059
technological distinctiveness to your own.

928
00:42:42.119 --> 00:42:44.460
Whereas they're doing a little guesswork here, aren't they?

929
00:42:44.519 --> 00:42:48.300
And it's like, well, this kind of this ambiguous insect species.

930
00:42:48.539 --> 00:42:51.539
What's engaging about that?

931
00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:54.059
Were they just a shitty version of the Borg?

932
00:42:54.119 --> 00:42:58.500
I mean, because the Borg come in a colony and they have a group

933
00:42:58.500 --> 00:42:59.579
intelligence?

934
00:42:59.639 --> 00:43:02.340
And when you hear them speak, they sound like a lot of people

935
00:43:02.340 --> 00:43:03.420
speaking at once.

936
00:43:03.480 --> 00:43:08.340
So maybe this is trying to feel a hole that hasn't that's already

937
00:43:08.340 --> 00:43:12.179
been filled by an alien species that's much more interesting.

938
00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:17.039
I was going to make a metaphor then, but I was trying to...

939
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:18.420
That's for my other problem.

940
00:43:18.420 --> 00:43:19.079
Try to avoid that.

941
00:43:19.139 --> 00:43:21.059
This sequence here.

942
00:43:21.119 --> 00:43:24.599
Okay, this is really good because he gets really angry with her.

943
00:43:24.659 --> 00:43:29.760
Now, mine Nan had dementia and I, you know, I saw that anger quite

944
00:43:29.760 --> 00:43:34.199
a lot and it's not really pushed in a very uncomfortable way

945
00:43:34.199 --> 00:43:36.539
because we're not here for that. you know, this that's not what

946
00:43:36.539 --> 00:43:37.679
Star Trek's trying to do.

947
00:43:37.860 --> 00:43:42.239
But I'm glad they added that because they had the sort of the

948
00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:42.900
confusion.

949
00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:43.860
Then they had the innocence.

950
00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:47.400
Now they've got the anger and it is the sort of the various stages

951
00:43:47.400 --> 00:43:49.199
of dementia that they're covering.

952
00:43:49.260 --> 00:43:51.059
It's very... this one here.

953
00:43:51.119 --> 00:43:57.119
Also, he remembers his, like the 1st time he's activated very well

954
00:43:57.119 --> 00:43:59.579
but can't remember anything since that.

955
00:43:59.639 --> 00:44:03.539
And that dementia thing where your old memories stay, but you have

956
00:44:03.539 --> 00:44:05.820
difficulty remembering recent thing.

957
00:44:05.880 --> 00:44:10.380
We gave my nan a doll and she remembered my mum being born, whereas

958
00:44:10.380 --> 00:44:13.019
she couldn't remember anything from like the last year, you know

959
00:44:13.019 --> 00:44:15.000
so that's absolutely a thing.

960
00:44:15.300 --> 00:44:19.199
So I don't, I mean, this episode doesn't have anything to say

961
00:44:19.199 --> 00:44:22.380
about dementia, you know, dementia is bad or dementia is

962
00:44:22.380 --> 00:44:22.800
upsetting.

963
00:44:22.860 --> 00:44:23.400
Well, yeah.

964
00:44:23.460 --> 00:44:27.360
But can you say it, you know, what can they say?

965
00:44:27.360 --> 00:44:29.039
It's horrendous, you know?

966
00:44:29.099 --> 00:44:29.820
Yeah.

967
00:44:29.880 --> 00:44:34.440
And there's a reset button and inevitably there he is. irritates

968
00:44:34.440 --> 00:44:35.099
me no end.

969
00:44:35.159 --> 00:44:38.280
Well, I like it better than you do, I think.

970
00:44:38.699 --> 00:44:40.739
But...

971
00:44:40.739 --> 00:44:43.800
But it does humanise it.

972
00:44:43.860 --> 00:44:47.579
The other one is just space things happening to space people and

973
00:44:47.579 --> 00:44:49.199
they press buttons to fix the problem.

974
00:44:49.260 --> 00:44:55.800
Whereas this is about seeing characters that we know interact in a

975
00:44:55.800 --> 00:44:58.260
different way and being pushed into a different situation

976
00:44:58.320 --> 00:45:01.079
literally the 2 sides of Star Trek, isn't it?

977
00:45:01.139 --> 00:45:04.079
It is the 2 versions of Star Trek.

978
00:45:04.139 --> 00:45:07.320
The version I don't like, which is all the techna babble, and the

979
00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:09.119
version I love, which is the character drama.

980
00:45:09.179 --> 00:45:10.019
Yeah.

981
00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:13.619
So we just had the visual going into the ad break of the swarm and

982
00:45:13.619 --> 00:45:16.920
here we are out of the ad break with the swarm on the screen.

983
00:45:16.980 --> 00:45:18.360
There's some nifty effects.

984
00:45:18.420 --> 00:45:19.800
Yeah, agree. great.

985
00:45:19.860 --> 00:45:21.000
Yeah.

986
00:45:21.059 --> 00:45:24.960
But I don't I don't know if the 15 minutes of boredom is a

987
00:45:24.960 --> 00:45:28.019
sacrifice I'm willing to make just for some good special effects.

988
00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:29.400
Yeah.

989
00:45:29.460 --> 00:45:33.480
And I think so, for instance, discovery does a very good job, I

990
00:45:33.480 --> 00:45:37.380
think, of looking spectacular and having incredible special

991
00:45:37.380 --> 00:45:39.960
effects.

992
00:45:40.019 --> 00:45:43.800
Yeah, without being about the special effects, which is clearly

993
00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:44.460
what's happening.

994
00:45:44.579 --> 00:45:48.539
Yeah, essentially this is an excuse to do a, you know, a visually

995
00:45:48.539 --> 00:45:50.280
exciting set piece, isn't it?

996
00:45:50.340 --> 00:45:52.619
And look at TV's visual.

997
00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:56.159
I think, you know, being visually exciting, doing visual things

998
00:45:56.159 --> 00:45:59.699
that are interesting is something that Voyager managers, as they

999
00:45:59.699 --> 00:46:03.179
get better at the technology over the 7 years of the show's run

1000
00:46:03.179 --> 00:46:06.239
they're eventually able to produce things that look really quite

1001
00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:07.559
amazing.

1002
00:46:07.619 --> 00:46:10.320
And that's what TV is for as well.

1003
00:46:10.380 --> 00:46:14.400
Here, though, I think this is the point where the 2 plots mesh

1004
00:46:14.400 --> 00:46:18.119
well, and it's not until this point, because they're in a

1005
00:46:18.119 --> 00:46:21.960
situation of peril on Voyager, Kez has to try and find the

1006
00:46:21.960 --> 00:46:24.119
solution to the doctor problem on her own.

1007
00:46:24.179 --> 00:46:27.300
Because they're basically saying, look, we can't afford, we can't

1008
00:46:27.300 --> 00:46:29.820
afford to give you Bilana, you know, you're going to have to, you

1009
00:46:29.820 --> 00:46:30.539
know, sorry.

1010
00:46:30.599 --> 00:46:33.900
And so now she's desperate, she's angry, she's reacting.

1011
00:46:34.380 --> 00:46:37.380
I actually think that's slightly shit.

1012
00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:39.059
Like, they're about to lose that.

1013
00:46:39.059 --> 00:46:40.440
They're about to lose their doctor.

1014
00:46:40.500 --> 00:46:44.400
It's kind of like B'Elana needs to be in engineering, pressing

1015
00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:46.320
buttons because no one else can do it.

1016
00:46:46.380 --> 00:46:48.360
You know, but...

1017
00:46:48.360 --> 00:46:50.159
But it does mean that Kes has to step up.

1018
00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:54.719
And it reinforces, you know, how much she cares about him.

1019
00:46:54.900 --> 00:46:56.280
Yeah.

1020
00:46:56.340 --> 00:46:58.679
And also, she's angry.

1021
00:46:58.739 --> 00:46:59.460
She's...

1022
00:46:59.519 --> 00:47:01.500
Do you remember that one where she's evil, warlord?

1023
00:47:01.559 --> 00:47:07.860
And she's like this mad, like psychotic, bisexual, murderess.

1024
00:47:08.699 --> 00:47:11.159
Oh, you could have been like this all the time.

1025
00:47:11.219 --> 00:47:12.059
That would have been amazing.

1026
00:47:12.119 --> 00:47:15.900
She could have been like Giorgio. the Giorgio of Voyager, you

1027
00:47:15.900 --> 00:47:16.079
know?

1028
00:47:17.639 --> 00:47:22.980
And so they come up with a techno babble solution to the problem

1029
00:47:22.980 --> 00:47:27.300
but it's one that is comprehensible enough.

1030
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:29.579
For a four-year-old.

1031
00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:31.019
We're gonna sour the milk.

1032
00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:32.760
But no, no, no.

1033
00:47:32.820 --> 00:47:35.519
I mean for I mean for this proper plot where they're going to take

1034
00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:40.860
Zimmerman's holographic matrix and give it to the doctor.

1035
00:47:40.920 --> 00:47:43.500
And it means we won't see Zimmerman again, but we've got a

1036
00:47:43.500 --> 00:47:46.619
functioning hologram here and we'll use bits of it to fix the

1037
00:47:46.619 --> 00:47:49.380
other hologram, is easily comprehensible.

1038
00:47:49.440 --> 00:47:52.619
But it does make you wonder why they didn't think of this the 1st

1039
00:47:52.619 --> 00:47:54.840
time they walked in. like, Bilana didn't go, well, we got 2

1040
00:47:54.840 --> 00:47:55.440
holograms here.

1041
00:47:55.500 --> 00:47:56.760
Why don't we just, you know.

1042
00:47:57.659 --> 00:48:00.300
Didn't they even know?

1043
00:48:00.360 --> 00:48:04.139
Did they know that, because he just rolls out.

1044
00:48:04.199 --> 00:48:06.780
He just rolls out from behind a console.

1045
00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:08.400
I don't know whether they ever knew.

1046
00:48:08.519 --> 00:48:10.559
I don't mind a simplistic solution.

1047
00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:11.940
As long as it makes sense.

1048
00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:15.539
And I think both the swarm plot and the doctor plot have simple

1049
00:48:15.539 --> 00:48:19.320
solutions, but they both are comprehensible and, you know, they're

1050
00:48:19.320 --> 00:48:19.619
satisfying.

1051
00:48:19.679 --> 00:48:20.639
Oh, look at that.

1052
00:48:20.699 --> 00:48:22.380
Oh, look, that's a great shot, isn't it?

1053
00:48:22.440 --> 00:48:23.400
Yeah.

1054
00:48:23.460 --> 00:48:26.340
That's all they were thinking about, you know, when they were

1055
00:48:26.340 --> 00:48:29.820
writing this, we're going to, we're going to fill the screen full

1056
00:48:29.820 --> 00:48:31.079
of CGI in six.

1057
00:48:31.139 --> 00:48:32.039
Yeah.

1058
00:48:32.099 --> 00:48:32.579
Yeah.

1059
00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:38.159
You know, and I just think I'm really sick to death on this scene

1060
00:48:38.159 --> 00:48:38.699
already.

1061
00:48:41.159 --> 00:48:43.320
It's so boring.

1062
00:48:43.380 --> 00:48:44.880
It is so boring. again.

1063
00:48:45.179 --> 00:48:51.539
It feels obscene as well because you've got actresses like Roxanne

1064
00:48:51.539 --> 00:48:54.960
Dawson and Kate Mulgrew and there's just saying this dreadful

1065
00:48:54.960 --> 00:48:55.739
Techno Babble.

1066
00:48:55.800 --> 00:48:58.500
How can you waste these actresses, you know?

1067
00:48:59.400 --> 00:49:03.300
Chakotay's being boring in his chair, but that's 10 what he tends

1068
00:49:03.300 --> 00:49:03.900
to do, you know.

1069
00:49:03.960 --> 00:49:05.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1070
00:49:05.820 --> 00:49:08.219
He's had his most interesting episode now.

1071
00:49:08.280 --> 00:49:11.400
That's resolution in the last season when him and Janeway started

1072
00:49:11.400 --> 00:49:12.239
banging on the planet.

1073
00:49:12.360 --> 00:49:15.300
So now it's all downhill from him from here on.

1074
00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:17.820
That's the last time he gets anything to do.

1075
00:49:18.900 --> 00:49:21.539
I'm surprising he made the move, you know.

1076
00:49:21.599 --> 00:49:23.099
He makes the move, not her.

1077
00:49:23.219 --> 00:49:25.920
Wow, she's Kate Mulgrew though.

1078
00:49:25.980 --> 00:49:26.519
I know.

1079
00:49:26.579 --> 00:49:27.420
Anyone would.

1080
00:49:27.480 --> 00:49:28.980
Yeah, that's right.

1081
00:49:29.639 --> 00:49:34.260
Do you know, they are very adept at this split screen stuff at

1082
00:49:34.260 --> 00:49:34.619
this point.

1083
00:49:34.679 --> 00:49:36.780
I can't see the joins here.

1084
00:49:36.840 --> 00:49:37.139
Can you?

1085
00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:38.460
No, no, no, no.

1086
00:49:38.519 --> 00:49:39.900
I don't think they're doing it like that.

1087
00:49:39.960 --> 00:49:41.519
Like it's not quite a split.

1088
00:49:41.579 --> 00:49:43.739
It's not like in bewitched, you know, where you would see a sort

1089
00:49:43.739 --> 00:49:45.000
of line down the middle of the thing.

1090
00:49:45.059 --> 00:49:49.440
Do you remember in 2nd chance as they play with that by blocking

1091
00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:52.320
the scene so the 2 Rikers are on the opposite side of the screen.

1092
00:49:52.380 --> 00:49:55.440
So you think it's traditional split screen and then one of them

1093
00:49:55.440 --> 00:49:58.079
walks out of the shot in front of the other one and you kind of go

1094
00:49:58.079 --> 00:49:59.280
0 shit, they can do that now.

1095
00:49:59.340 --> 00:50:03.599
I watched a Sabrina, a teenage witch the other day, where there

1096
00:50:03.599 --> 00:50:06.119
was 2 of her, and the way they got around it was every time she

1097
00:50:06.119 --> 00:50:07.800
walked out of the room, the other one walked in.

1098
00:50:07.860 --> 00:50:10.199
Like a 2nd later, I thought, that's genius.

1099
00:50:10.260 --> 00:50:10.980
That is genius.

1100
00:50:12.840 --> 00:50:17.460
Ah, look, and Zimmerman's actually quite, he's a little bit more

1101
00:50:17.460 --> 00:50:22.260
like the doctor now at the end that he is sort of sacrificing

1102
00:50:22.260 --> 00:50:24.960
himself to save the doctor, and suddenly he's a little bit less

1103
00:50:24.960 --> 00:50:29.519
irascible and a little bit more the sort of sweet, charming man

1104
00:50:29.519 --> 00:50:30.840
you know, the doctor to be. do that.

1105
00:50:30.900 --> 00:50:33.659
He can introduce his character as a right fucking grump.

1106
00:50:33.719 --> 00:50:36.179
And then softening throughout the course.

1107
00:50:36.239 --> 00:50:39.360
Interestingly, when we come back to him in Lifeline in series 6

1108
00:50:39.360 --> 00:50:43.440
when he's an older man, he's the grumpiest the doctor's ever been

1109
00:50:43.619 --> 00:50:45.300
wonderful.

1110
00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:47.519
Yeah, well, that's great.

1111
00:50:47.579 --> 00:50:49.679
The camera's zooming about the bridge trying to make this as

1112
00:50:49.679 --> 00:50:51.539
dramatic as possible.

1113
00:50:51.900 --> 00:50:54.239
There's a lattice apparently.

1114
00:50:54.300 --> 00:50:56.340
Harry Kim is under lit.

1115
00:50:56.400 --> 00:50:58.260
So his face looks hugely dramatic.

1116
00:50:58.920 --> 00:51:00.599
But really.

1117
00:51:00.599 --> 00:51:02.219
It's all a bit tedious, isn't it?

1118
00:51:02.280 --> 00:51:06.659
There's every chance the interferometric pulse will blah, blah

1119
00:51:06.659 --> 00:51:07.559
blah, blah, blah.

1120
00:51:07.559 --> 00:51:09.059
I'm getting hard.

1121
00:51:09.119 --> 00:51:11.159
You're saying there's 10 about, honestly.

1122
00:51:11.219 --> 00:51:12.780
So bad.

1123
00:51:13.019 --> 00:51:15.239
It's so boring.

1124
00:51:15.300 --> 00:51:16.320
Here they are.

1125
00:51:16.380 --> 00:51:18.360
Oh, now there's some punching on the bridge.

1126
00:51:18.480 --> 00:51:22.500
I'm telling you, series 3 is full of these episodes, full of

1127
00:51:22.500 --> 00:51:26.159
technobabble, full of, you know, threat of the week.

1128
00:51:26.219 --> 00:51:28.079
Oh, Robbie.

1129
00:51:28.139 --> 00:51:29.039
Oh, there you go.

1130
00:51:29.099 --> 00:51:29.940
There you go.

1131
00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:31.380
Kate gets to shoot someone.

1132
00:51:31.440 --> 00:51:33.719
Robbie gets to crash tackle them.

1133
00:51:33.780 --> 00:51:37.500
Oh, look, even Chakotay, Chakotay.

1134
00:51:37.559 --> 00:51:39.300
He disintegrated one of them.

1135
00:51:39.300 --> 00:51:41.039
Or maybe he beamed back, actually.

1136
00:51:41.099 --> 00:51:42.000
Maybe that's what happened.

1137
00:51:42.119 --> 00:51:43.679
That's rubbish, isn't it?

1138
00:51:43.739 --> 00:51:44.880
They're cool sitting there.

1139
00:51:44.940 --> 00:51:46.320
The 2nd you shoot him, they vanish.

1140
00:51:46.380 --> 00:51:48.599
Yeah, they don't want corpses all over the place.

1141
00:51:48.659 --> 00:51:50.460
Look, they're all blowing up.

1142
00:51:50.519 --> 00:51:54.059
And they're all going, oh, no, Janeway's got her crisis here, the

1143
00:51:54.059 --> 00:51:54.960
bun has sort of come out.

1144
00:51:55.380 --> 00:52:01.199
No, you can gauge every dramatic situation on how much disarray

1145
00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:02.099
her hair is in.

1146
00:52:02.219 --> 00:52:04.320
The caretaker.

1147
00:52:04.380 --> 00:52:05.400
It's all over the place.

1148
00:52:06.960 --> 00:52:09.599
So it never happened to Avery.

1149
00:52:09.719 --> 00:52:13.679
She said, no, I can't say this because she said, no, I need to

1150
00:52:13.679 --> 00:52:15.659
watch more of these behind the scenes documentaries now, because

1151
00:52:15.659 --> 00:52:20.579
she's got some great information, that the suits, the Paramount

1152
00:52:20.579 --> 00:52:23.579
suits were watching her for the 1st 6 months.

1153
00:52:23.639 --> 00:52:26.760
They were all on the side of the set watching every move she made

1154
00:52:26.760 --> 00:52:28.019
for about 6 months, right?

1155
00:52:28.079 --> 00:52:30.719
And the thing they were most obsessed about was her hair.

1156
00:52:30.780 --> 00:52:31.980
Yeah.

1157
00:52:31.980 --> 00:52:33.599
Like, it's got to be tied back.

1158
00:52:33.659 --> 00:52:34.920
It's got to be more masculine.

1159
00:52:34.980 --> 00:52:37.980
She's too feminine and they would have makeup artists come in on

1160
00:52:37.980 --> 00:52:41.579
every scene and like touch up her hair and tie it back, you know?

1161
00:52:41.940 --> 00:52:43.619
Maddie.

1162
00:52:43.679 --> 00:52:47.519
Do you know, though, I think that that hair is the classic Janeway

1163
00:52:47.519 --> 00:52:48.059
hair?

1164
00:52:48.119 --> 00:52:50.940
And when it turns into a sort of fairly standard bob later on, I'm

1165
00:52:50.940 --> 00:52:51.719
slightly bored.

1166
00:52:51.780 --> 00:52:54.659
No, because she looks so, she looks really mumsy.

1167
00:52:54.719 --> 00:52:57.900
You know, I wanted I wanted to take it to her bosom when she's got

1168
00:52:57.900 --> 00:52:58.500
a haircut.

1169
00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:03.420
But she's got a Catherine Hepburn thing going with the hair up and

1170
00:53:03.420 --> 00:53:06.900
you know, like that's Catherine Janeway, isn't it?

1171
00:53:06.960 --> 00:53:07.800
She's virtually...

1172
00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:10.380
Only only 2 people have that voice, you know, and that's...

1173
00:53:10.380 --> 00:53:12.059
JJ Wayne and Catherine Hepburn.

1174
00:53:12.119 --> 00:53:13.079
Exactly.

1175
00:53:13.920 --> 00:53:19.079
And so the doctor is back, but his memory isn't back.

1176
00:53:19.139 --> 00:53:23.400
And we weren't sure whether that was going to happen or not.

1177
00:53:23.460 --> 00:53:26.880
And so it looks now like he's lost his memory.

1178
00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:31.619
You come on, you justify this because we never hear from this

1179
00:53:31.619 --> 00:53:31.860
again.

1180
00:53:31.920 --> 00:53:34.440
We never hear about Henry being lost.

1181
00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:36.960
Because it didn't get lost.

1182
00:53:37.019 --> 00:53:38.340
That came back.

1183
00:53:38.400 --> 00:53:39.059
It worked.

1184
00:53:39.119 --> 00:53:44.099
And so, but instead of just having a scene where everything's okay

1185
00:53:44.099 --> 00:53:48.360
and we're all back to normal, we do it with a call back to the

1186
00:53:48.360 --> 00:53:50.519
very, very funny scene at the beginning.

1187
00:53:50.579 --> 00:53:54.719
We see the doctor do the thing that makes him human.

1188
00:53:54.780 --> 00:53:59.699
The thing that, you know, more than anything else, has in this

1189
00:53:59.699 --> 00:54:03.239
episode typified him moving beyond the constraints of his

1190
00:54:03.239 --> 00:54:03.780
program.

1191
00:54:03.840 --> 00:54:07.199
And so that is the way of telling us that this worked.

1192
00:54:07.260 --> 00:54:09.780
And so the assumption is...

1193
00:54:09.780 --> 00:54:12.960
Just for them to give us something in the next episode that he

1194
00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:15.000
that this is, I don't know.

1195
00:54:15.059 --> 00:54:18.719
But it's a problem long term because nothing sticks.

1196
00:54:18.960 --> 00:54:20.639
Yeah, yeah.

1197
00:54:20.699 --> 00:54:22.920
But, but that's very clear.

1198
00:54:22.980 --> 00:54:26.340
It's a very clear way to indicate that his humanity is

1199
00:54:26.340 --> 00:54:30.900
ineradicable and we can do the space things to him to fix the giga

1200
00:54:30.900 --> 00:54:33.360
quads of memory corruption or whatever.

1201
00:54:33.719 --> 00:54:36.960
Do you remember, I keep talking about Scorpion.

1202
00:54:37.019 --> 00:54:37.619
All right.

1203
00:54:37.679 --> 00:54:40.679
At the end of Scorpion episode two. and Arthur ship's destroyed

1204
00:54:40.679 --> 00:54:44.699
and they've got Borg bits all graft onto...

1205
00:54:44.760 --> 00:54:45.840
No, in the gift.

1206
00:54:45.900 --> 00:54:48.000
It opens up.

1207
00:54:48.119 --> 00:54:50.400
I nearly fell off my bloody chair.

1208
00:54:50.460 --> 00:54:51.780
I was like, my God.

1209
00:54:51.840 --> 00:54:52.860
Consequences.

1210
00:54:52.920 --> 00:54:57.659
I secretly hoped they would keep those Borg things. amazing.

1211
00:54:57.719 --> 00:54:58.739
It would have been amazing.

1212
00:54:58.800 --> 00:55:03.179
And I just, like, that is my biggest issue with, I would like to

1213
00:55:03.179 --> 00:55:04.920
see more consequences.

1214
00:55:04.980 --> 00:55:08.519
And I know this is a knock on effect from TNG, isn't it?

1215
00:55:08.639 --> 00:55:09.360
Yeah.

1216
00:55:09.420 --> 00:55:12.480
Well, in fact, in fact, it's a knock-on effect from original Star

1217
00:55:12.480 --> 00:55:16.199
Trek, where Spock loses his memory and we see him in bed with

1218
00:55:16.199 --> 00:55:18.840
Ahura teaching him how to read or something at the end of the

1219
00:55:18.840 --> 00:55:20.940
episode and he's fine next time.

1220
00:55:21.719 --> 00:55:26.039
This one, where I think he just hasn't lost his memory, because

1221
00:55:26.039 --> 00:55:30.420
that's, you know, that's who he is and you can't just eradicate

1222
00:55:30.420 --> 00:55:30.659
that.

1223
00:55:30.719 --> 00:55:33.659
And he's a, you know, like whatever, he's a space character.

1224
00:55:33.719 --> 00:55:35.579
But I like that ending.

1225
00:55:35.639 --> 00:55:40.079
Rutherford loses his memory at the end of series one of lower

1226
00:55:40.079 --> 00:55:42.000
decks, and they deal with that very well.

1227
00:55:42.059 --> 00:55:43.260
Well, over time.

1228
00:55:43.260 --> 00:55:44.219
In series two.

1229
00:55:44.280 --> 00:55:46.320
Yeah, he doesn't get it back.

1230
00:55:46.380 --> 00:55:47.340
He loses his memory.

1231
00:55:47.400 --> 00:55:49.139
You see, it has potential.

1232
00:55:49.199 --> 00:55:53.099
I think the worst example of this, weirdly enough, is in one of

1233
00:55:53.099 --> 00:55:57.480
the best ever episodes of Star Trek, is hard time, DS9 is 4 season

1234
00:55:57.539 --> 00:56:01.079
the one where O'Brien has a 20-year prison sentence jammed into

1235
00:56:01.079 --> 00:56:06.179
his brain and goes suicidal and tries to hit Molly and terrible

1236
00:56:06.179 --> 00:56:06.780
things happen.

1237
00:56:06.900 --> 00:56:12.599
And it's a fantastic showcase for Columini. brilliantly directed

1238
00:56:12.599 --> 00:56:12.960
as well.

1239
00:56:13.019 --> 00:56:17.340
But at the end, but she was like, you know, I can't take these

1240
00:56:17.340 --> 00:56:19.440
memories out of your head, you're going to have to learn to live

1241
00:56:19.440 --> 00:56:19.739
with them.

1242
00:56:19.860 --> 00:56:22.440
And then we never...

1243
00:56:22.500 --> 00:56:26.400
And then he's, I think he's in, you know, going down the rapids in

1244
00:56:26.400 --> 00:56:27.420
the next episode or something.

1245
00:56:27.420 --> 00:56:29.340
It's like nothing ever happens, you know?

1246
00:56:29.400 --> 00:56:34.739
You think like just some coolbacks that, but like, And it's

1247
00:56:34.739 --> 00:56:37.380
especially egregious for DS9 because DS9 will deal with

1248
00:56:37.380 --> 00:56:38.099
consequences.

1249
00:56:38.159 --> 00:56:41.639
Look at Kira and her sort of PTSD throughout series one and two

1250
00:56:41.639 --> 00:56:43.139
post the occupation.

1251
00:56:43.199 --> 00:56:44.340
You know it will deal with that.

1252
00:56:44.400 --> 00:56:47.400
Whereas you can kind of forgive him more with Voyager because

1253
00:56:47.400 --> 00:56:48.840
that's Voyager's theme.

1254
00:56:48.960 --> 00:56:54.719
Except, except I guess that in hard times, it's a dumb space thing

1255
00:56:54.719 --> 00:56:55.980
that happened to O'Brien.

1256
00:56:56.039 --> 00:56:56.940
It would be tedious.

1257
00:56:57.000 --> 00:57:01.260
Like if he'd been sort of, if he'd really been in prison for 20

1258
00:57:01.260 --> 00:57:04.260
years, we could have put up with his PTSD, but it's kind of like

1259
00:57:04.260 --> 00:57:07.500
we'd be there going, oh, for God's sake, it was 20 seconds and it

1260
00:57:07.500 --> 00:57:10.500
was all over by the opening credits, just man up, your fucking

1261
00:57:10.500 --> 00:57:11.400
baby and get over it.

1262
00:57:11.460 --> 00:57:13.079
What are you talking about?

1263
00:57:13.139 --> 00:57:15.780
You have just summed up Star Trek in a nutshell when you say

1264
00:57:15.780 --> 00:57:16.440
this.

1265
00:57:16.440 --> 00:57:18.179
It's just a dumb space thing.

1266
00:57:18.840 --> 00:57:24.900
That's every episode. that's right And we're doing a podcast about

1267
00:57:24.900 --> 00:57:25.079
it.

1268
00:57:29.039 --> 00:57:32.940
All right, so it's time for us to choose the next Star Trek

1269
00:57:32.940 --> 00:57:37.679
episode that we're going to watch, and so I am here at Untitled

1270
00:57:37.679 --> 00:57:40.380
Star Trek project.com slash randomiser.

1271
00:57:40.440 --> 00:57:46.500
And which series are we choosing from this time and why, Joe?

1272
00:57:46.559 --> 00:57:49.800
I'm tempted to say we're choosing the Drakes.

1273
00:57:50.159 --> 00:57:51.719
This is cruel.

1274
00:57:51.780 --> 00:57:55.920
What we haven't selected so far, which I think is fair because

1275
00:57:55.920 --> 00:57:59.519
we've started to dip like double dip into some shows now, haven't

1276
00:57:59.519 --> 00:57:59.699
we?

1277
00:57:59.760 --> 00:58:01.980
We've sadly neglected.

1278
00:58:02.039 --> 00:58:05.760
And there's a reason is there's not many episodes of these shows

1279
00:58:05.760 --> 00:58:09.900
which is why, you know, by sheer odds, they're not really going to

1280
00:58:09.900 --> 00:58:10.559
show up.

1281
00:58:10.679 --> 00:58:14.219
So we've got the animated series, which is what, one season?

1282
00:58:14.280 --> 00:58:16.619
Two, I think, but one of them's quite short.

1283
00:58:16.679 --> 00:58:18.000
They won't get rid of that.

1284
00:58:18.059 --> 00:58:23.940
Um, Picard, Prodigy, and short tricks, which I've never seen.

1285
00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:26.340
So I literally have no clue what that's all about.

1286
00:58:26.460 --> 00:58:29.579
I'm secretly hoping for a short trick, I have to say.

1287
00:58:29.639 --> 00:58:30.599
I really like them.

1288
00:58:30.659 --> 00:58:31.260
All right.

1289
00:58:31.320 --> 00:58:35.400
I'm hoping for an animated series after you think about BEM.

1290
00:58:35.460 --> 00:58:36.960
I want...

1291
00:58:37.739 --> 00:58:39.780
All right, okay.

1292
00:58:39.840 --> 00:58:43.980
So my finger is hovering over the button and we're off.

1293
00:58:43.980 --> 00:58:48.599
It is an episode of Star Trek, the animated series.

1294
00:58:48.659 --> 00:58:51.599
It is Mud's Passion.

1295
00:58:51.659 --> 00:58:54.360
So this is a secret.

1296
00:58:55.500 --> 00:58:59.460
It's going to be dreadfully sexist, isn't it?

1297
00:58:59.519 --> 00:59:00.960
Yeah, it's going to be hideous.

1298
00:59:01.019 --> 00:59:02.940
Do you want to do you want to roll again?

1299
00:59:03.000 --> 00:59:04.079
I don't know.

1300
00:59:04.139 --> 00:59:07.920
I'm almost tempted We've had we've had the horribly racist

1301
00:59:07.920 --> 00:59:08.880
enterprise episode.

1302
00:59:09.179 --> 00:59:12.360
The horrible sexist TOS one.

1303
00:59:12.420 --> 00:59:13.139
T-A-N.

1304
00:59:13.199 --> 00:59:18.179
To be fair to Enterprise, It was horribly sexist as well.

1305
00:59:18.239 --> 00:59:22.139
Okay, so let's try another one.

1306
00:59:22.199 --> 00:59:23.280
Yeah go on.

1307
00:59:23.340 --> 00:59:25.380
And then we can decide between a couple.

1308
00:59:25.440 --> 00:59:25.739
Come on.

1309
00:59:25.800 --> 00:59:29.039
Um, not sure about that principle, but all right.

1310
00:59:29.099 --> 00:59:32.219
So this is season one, episode three.

1311
00:59:32.280 --> 00:59:36.599
So it's actually the 1st regular episode of Star Trek Prodigy, and

1312
00:59:36.599 --> 00:59:38.159
it's called Starstruck.

1313
00:59:38.460 --> 00:59:42.000
Now, that's going to be weird because I've not seen any of them.

1314
00:59:42.119 --> 00:59:44.460
So to come in on the 3rd episode will be very strange.

1315
00:59:44.880 --> 00:59:51.840
So I think that the pilot, which is called Lost and Found, is

1316
00:59:51.840 --> 00:59:54.300
actually episodes one and two.

1317
00:59:54.360 --> 00:59:57.659
It's a double length episode, which means it's about 45 minutes.

1318
00:59:57.719 --> 01:00:03.480
And so that makes this the 1st regular episode, which is actually

1319
01:00:03.480 --> 01:00:05.940
quite an interesting place to come in.

1320
01:00:06.300 --> 01:00:11.280
Well, then lower decks will no longer be our most upstate episode

1321
01:00:11.280 --> 01:00:12.420
that we've watched, will it?

1322
01:00:12.480 --> 01:00:16.199
No, this was 1st broadcast on Thursday, the 4th of November.

1323
01:00:19.320 --> 01:00:21.239
Yeah, yeah.

1324
01:00:21.300 --> 01:00:22.739
This is about as up to date as we get.

1325
01:00:22.800 --> 01:00:25.019
I think we should go for that one.

1326
01:00:25.079 --> 01:00:26.099
Well, that's right.

1327
01:00:26.159 --> 01:00:26.880
Apology.

1328
01:00:26.940 --> 01:00:27.360
Hang on.

1329
01:00:27.420 --> 01:00:28.619
Can you do me a favour though?

1330
01:00:28.679 --> 01:00:29.880
What the hell is that about?

1331
01:00:29.940 --> 01:00:30.599
don't really know.

1332
01:00:30.659 --> 01:00:33.300
Oh, well, you'll find that out, I think.

1333
01:00:33.360 --> 01:00:36.840
I might actually rewatch the pilot, which is currently the only

1334
01:00:36.840 --> 01:00:39.780
thing that I've watched so far, and it is only 40 minutes.

1335
01:00:39.840 --> 01:00:41.460
Well, I watch that as well.

1336
01:00:41.519 --> 01:00:44.579
I feel like I need some context before I dip into episode three.

1337
01:00:44.639 --> 01:00:46.019
Is this the one with Janeway?

1338
01:00:46.079 --> 01:00:49.079
Yeah, yeah. like the gelatinous blob.

1339
01:00:49.139 --> 01:00:50.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1340
01:00:50.400 --> 01:00:54.480
And there's a Tellorite played by Jason Manzukas from The Good

1341
01:00:54.480 --> 01:00:54.840
Place.

1342
01:00:54.900 --> 01:00:56.579
He's Derek from The Good Place.

1343
01:00:57.659 --> 01:01:00.239
Good squarely at children.

1344
01:01:00.300 --> 01:01:00.960
Yeah.

1345
01:01:01.019 --> 01:01:06.059
But I think that it's, you know, probably teenage children, it's a

1346
01:01:06.059 --> 01:01:09.659
little bit like the Star Wars animations.

1347
01:01:09.719 --> 01:01:12.239
So it's 3D animated.

1348
01:01:12.300 --> 01:01:13.980
It's super weird.

1349
01:01:14.039 --> 01:01:16.260
It's visually, really interesting.

1350
01:01:16.380 --> 01:01:19.860
And I think it's going to be quite fun.

1351
01:01:19.980 --> 01:01:21.360
Okay.

1352
01:01:21.420 --> 01:01:24.780
So like if we were talking the Doctor Who universe, are we talking

1353
01:01:24.780 --> 01:01:26.519
the Sarah Jane Avengers or Doctor Who?

1354
01:01:26.639 --> 01:01:28.380
Doctor Who, I think.

1355
01:01:28.440 --> 01:01:31.739
I think it is, you know, it's a bit, it's a little bit dark, but

1356
01:01:31.739 --> 01:01:35.760
it is a lot more sort of fun and relaxed, and the main characters

1357
01:01:35.760 --> 01:01:37.500
are all kind of children.

1358
01:01:37.619 --> 01:01:38.219
So.

1359
01:01:38.400 --> 01:01:41.219
And it's CG animation, right?

1360
01:01:41.280 --> 01:01:41.940
Yeah, yeah.

1361
01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:43.199
3D CG animation.

1362
01:01:43.260 --> 01:01:44.760
And it's impressive looking, I think.

1363
01:01:44.820 --> 01:01:46.079
That's amazing.

1364
01:01:46.139 --> 01:01:46.739
Yeah.

1365
01:01:46.800 --> 01:01:47.340
Okay.

1366
01:01:47.400 --> 01:01:47.760
All right.

1367
01:01:47.820 --> 01:01:48.599
Let's do that then.

1368
01:01:48.659 --> 01:01:49.679
Brilliant.

1369
01:01:58.920 --> 01:02:03.539
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1370
01:02:03.539 --> 01:02:05.039
and Nathan Bottomley.

1371
01:02:05.099 --> 01:02:09.000
You can find us online at untitledstar trekproject.com where you

1372
01:02:09.000 --> 01:02:11.820
can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

1373
01:02:11.880 --> 01:02:16.380
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran and the themeless composed

1374
01:02:16.380 --> 01:02:17.340
by Cameron Lamb.

1375
01:02:17.400 --> 01:02:22.199
This episode was recorded on the 21st of December 2021 and

1376
01:02:22.199 --> 01:02:24.360
released on the 31st of December.

1377
01:02:24.420 --> 01:02:28.440
We'll see you next time for prodigies starstruck.