Hey, Joe. Hi.
So, we are in Voyager series two, which we actually quite like, and
we're doing an episode that comes immediately after an episode
we've already done.
This is the episode that comes after alliances, which we had some
good things to say about.
I really enjoyed it.
Yeah.
And this is threshold.
Famously the Nadir of Star Trek Voyager.
I wanted going into this, whether we would watch this and, you
know, come away with a new reading of it.
No, we won't.
It's shit.
It's so bad.
And I think it's bad.
Yeah, I think it's bad not for the reasons that most people think
it's bad. and not for the reason that Brannan Braga thinks it's
not very good.
I think the problem with it is it's really boring.
It's not about anything and it's actively unpleasant to watch.
It's the last part that sentence that really got me.
This was gross for no reason whatsoever.
I've not even, not even Genesis, which is trying to be a horror
movie.
So I understand why it's trying to be very gross.
This was like actively...
What did you say last week?
Repellent to watch it.
Yeah, yeah.
It's just a bad hour of TV.
And it doesn't really do anything to justify what it's doing.
It doesn't make any sense.
It doesn't seem to go anywhere.
And it, it attempts to, in a, in like 2 scenes where he talks to
Jane Williams.
I have to break the warp 10 barrier, I have to make my mark on
history, and then they try and tie that into some daddy issues
that he has that he's trying to impress his father.
And none of it goes anywhere.
And we don't do all of any of this down the line.
So it's not setting anything up.
No, and in fact, it just makes that worse.
Having Robert Duncan McNeil in those prosthetics whining about his
daddy issues is just gross.
I don't want to see that.
It's terrible.
That might be the worst scenes in Star Trek ever, those things.
I think there are some pretty astoundingly bad scenes even before
it goes to hell and starts covering the worst Robert in sort of
latex.
Um, and we'll talk about them as we go through, but there are
whole scenes that just don't do anything or go anywhere.
There's scene after scene after scene of just technobabble and
those are scenes that don't have characters who want anything or
who are trying to discuss anything beyond just the kind of made-up
technology that they're talking about.
You know what I mean?
My eyes just drop off the seat.
Whenever Tenababble was mentioned.
So those 1st the 1st thought, 15 minutes, I was barely paying
attention.
But I actually don't mind the technobabble in scenes that are
otherwise about something, you know, to make it look like these
are experts in some kind of 24th century technology.
We have some technical terms that we don't understand and that's
fine, provided we understand what's happening and who's doing what
and who wants, what, and what the issues are that are at stake, but
there are whole scenes here that are just about the technobabble
and I think they're terrible.
And I just think that we are right about Robert Duncan McNeil.
He is the worst Robert.
And, you know, this was given to him partly in order to kind of
redress the balance.
There wasn't enough focus on him according to the people who were
making the show.
But maybe their instincts were correct, I think.
Basically, every time we go to the Robert Duncan McNeil, well, we
end up with something like this or Alice, you know, high points of
the Star Trek franchise.
Can we talk for a 2nd about lower decks, please?
Something much more fun.
Because I watched an episode called Two Vics yesterday, which I
thought was a very funny celebration of Star Trek Voyager's most
incompetent moments.
And that's what makes me sad about that episode, is the only way
we can possibly celebrate Voyager is to pull out the most absurd
and that's what the most terrible moments that they did and pull
them into a comedy episode, which work brilliantly for lower decks
because it is taking a piss out of all of that.
You've got Chaotica and Michael Sullivan from Fairhaven and the
lizards from Threshold, you know all trying to take over the
ship.
Macro viruses.
Yeah, and the sad thing about it is I think people look back at
Voyager and they don't think about, I don't know, a nuanced
performance from Kate Mullgrew or Jerry Ryan a 7 of nine.
They think about these absurd, terrible episodes that stand out
one, because of their frequency and 2, just because they're so
fucking stupid.
And this is how we remember Voyager.
This is how we celebrate it.
Stuff like this.
We celebrate it also by referencing fear and by referencing... a
popular episode.
We are we are fans of that episode.
That is considered a low point of Voyager by a lot.
Yeah, that's baffling. microphone in it, like, show up.
So, but I think that it's celebrating Voyager doing weird high
concept stuff.
And I think, for instance, what's the episode with the macrovirus
called, is it called macrovirus?
Is it called?
macrocosomy?
Dreadful. macrocosm.
And it is a dreadful episode.
Did high concept episodes that were very good as well?
Yeah, which could have been celebrated.
We could have said, oh, yeah, look at all those are made blink of
an eye, you know, that we did.
Yeah, yeah. you're saying?
Stuff like that, you know.
Living Witness.
No, no, no.
We go to threshold macrocosm and Fairhaven.
Because that show was a bit shit and let's tell everybody that, but
have a bit of fun with it.
It's kind of, when Lower Decks celebrated DS9, it went to the
station, it brought in some of its best characters.
It had fun with them.
There was a little bit of politicking going on.
You know, it was celebrating the best of it.
I just think it's kind of sad that the episodes like threshold.
This is kind of what we remember about this show.
Yeah.
I mean, let's talk about what prodigy does, which is a lot more
loving, I think.
You know, like, I think, I think the lower decks people love
Voyager, because Star Trek is ridiculous and has always been
ridiculous, and I don't think the ridiculous things in this are
the problem, I think the boring things are the problem and the
unpleasant things are the problem.
And I liked Genesis.
I thought it was really funny.
There was that sort of cute line hanging a lantern on the fact
that everyone had been turned into an animal and, you know, you
have Deanna clearing her schedule so that Barclay can, you know
offload to her next week.
All of that's funny in making fun of the premise in the way that
Lower Deck stars.
This, though, is really boring and really unpleasant, and its lead
character is an asshole, and I just can't think why I would want
to watch it.
And like having them turn into lizards or salamanders or whatever
at the end is a dumb idea, but that's not the problem.
That's affecting what people remember about this, though, isn't
it?
Because when they did that fabulous animated series animation of
threshold.
Of course they chose this episode to do it on.
Don't you remember that when Tom Paris goes, like when Tom Paris
turns up on the Seritos for the 1st time, Mariner's 1st thing is
is he still a salamander?
Never forgot.
Paul Brader Braga.
He's like, well, people just forget that episode.
Yes.
Yeah, he does say that, too.
What's the quote?
I had an off day.
Yeah, you did, you did.
But like, how could you possibly make an episode where someone
turns into a lizard?
Boring.
Like that's almost inconceivable.
Yeah, I mean, think about identity crisis, for instance, where
you've got Geordie turning into a sort of luminescent alien and
stuff.
It's creepy and it's doing a sort of interesting procedural.
There's some nice visuals.
Like, I'm sure that if I went back and watched it now, you know, if
we rolled it, I would kind of decide it was actually really rather
boring.
But I have fond memories of it and I don't think it's dumb in the
way that I think this is just dumb.
I remember Laval Burton, he's got all that sort of weird makeup on
his face, that sort of front axial projection with all the blue
veins and that, it's properly scary.
Not like that weird prosthetics they put Robert Duncan McNeil in
in this with all the skin flaking off.
And the takeaway I was eating when I was watching that.
And I put the food to one side and I was no longer hungry.
Yeah.
I mean, I just think this has absolutely nothing going for it.
It's super miserable.
It's just not fun or enjoyable and it's visually incredibly
boring.
And if you compare this to Lonely Among Us, or where no one has
gone before, where something strange and spacey is happening, and
series one of Star Trek, the Next Generation, which doesn't have
the budget or the skill of this, actually puts weird stuff on
screen.
The weirdest thing is that scene where Janeway wakes up in the
shuttle and and like weird prosthetic Tom Paris is flying the
shuttle and there's swirly things in the window and we get that
for about 3 seconds.
Everything else is as boring looking or unpleasant looking as
possible.
I said to you before, the Braga said he wanted to bring sort of
some X-Files creepiness and grotesqueness to Star Trek.
And like, so he wrote the phage, he brought in the Vedians.
And so that sort of was his angle with this show that we can make
it a bit twilight is only a bit strange, you know?
I feel like this is that just taken to such an extreme for no
purpose, but to be weird and grotesque and strange, that it just
misses it by a mile, doesn't it?
Yeah, yeah.
And look, that's a reasonable, that's a reasonable aesthetic goal
is to be weird and strange, but, you know, the phase is a more
successful episode than this.
And it's a bit yuppier looking.
Nothing's taken away from us.
It's still pretty stupid.
Before we go in, can we can we just aside a little bit of blame
here?
I've got a few quotes from our famous favourite memory alpha
page.
Brandon Braga himself has things to say about threshold.
Yeah, he says.
I wrote the episode or at least the teleplay, so he's not taking
any responsibility for the ideas.
No.
And it had some good intentions behind it.
It had a good premise about breaking the warped 10 barrier.
I don't know where this whole de evolving into a lizard thing came
from.
I think I was trying to make a statement about evolution, not
necessarily being evolving towards higher organisms, that
evolution may also be devolution.
Well, I didn't get that at all from the episode, did you?
No.
So what he says is that there was a speech about that which was
cut from the episode and it was, I think, justifiably cut because
it's just another fucking technobabble speech in an episode that's
full of it.
But he's appalled, isn't it?
He says that, no, that he says that that ruined it.
He says that ruined.
That is what ruined this episode.
No.
And his point about devolution doesn't make any sense because
evolution doesn't work like this in any way.
Do you know what I mean?
Well, we evolve because of our surroundings.
Exactly.
In our DNA that we just happen to turn into lizards later on.
That's right.
There's variation and the environment acts upon it in such a way
that certain variations are more successful than others.
And so the environment carves creatures into new shapes.
You know, it's not just your DNA will eventually turn into a
lizard or your program so that, you know, a few generations down
the track, you'll all be lizards.
Like, that just makes sense.
The doctor has that line, doesn't he?
He actually says, oh, well, this is obviously something that
humans are going to evolve into down the line.
Okay, how does that even work?
You know, he was sitting in Sick Bay.
I'm glad I won't be around.
But there's very definitely, you know, this is magic DNA.
And because in Star Trek, your DNA is your essence and your
identity, and so it works along magical lines, and so someone
turns into a different thing and then you recover their DNA and
they're normal again, and none of that makes any sense or it all
works at all.
And that's fine.
I don't care.
Like, it's magic, it's all fine.
But if he thinks he's making a point about evolution, then what
might get, like, then it matters.
Yeah, he's made up a thing that he thinks is evolution and he's
going to make a point about it.
It's just like, well, why are we here?
What are you talking?
You remember those people I was talking about last week, the Star
Trek fans that go to McDonald's dressed up as clay masks?
I don't want them to watch this episode and think this is how DNA
works. you know?
No, but I mean, the other thing is, if he's saying that we don't
inevitably get better, then why is Star Trek the venue for making
that point?
Because the whole point of Star Trek is that we can get better
that we can aspire to something.
I just I don't get it.
I believe that they are, in fact, morally enlightened lizards.
Yeah maybe that's it.
They're super chill.
Well that makes sense.
I just got a couple more quotes.
I come from Robert Duncan McNeil. just love.
When I 1st read the script, I couldn't believe they were going to
shoot it.
Which is, um, it basically says it all, really, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah.
After, you know, the dust had settled on threshold and people have
declared it, the worst bit of Star Trek since Spock's brain.
It was sort of being spoken, you know, in those sort of terms.
Jerry Taylor remarks.
We're taking a lot of flack for that.
There's been a real lashing out.
I recognise that people who are on the internet and who write as
letters are a tiny portion of our audience, but when it is as
overwhelming as it was in this episode, you begin to take notice.
Wow.
I think this is vastly worse than Spock's brain.
And I think it's worse than shades of gray.
Shades of Grey is bad for all sorts of reasons, but I think this
is a less enjoyable 45 minutes of television.
I've got I've got one last quote, but I've got to save it for the
end of the episode.
And once we've watched it, I also want to ask you, is this the
worst episode that we have watched so far?
But let's watch it 1st and find out.
Okay, all right.
I'm ready?
Well, I'll count it in then in that case.
Oh my god.
This is my 2nd time today watching this.
Can I just say?
Bless you.
We'll just say what we always say to each other, at least we're
enduring it together.
That's true.
All right, here goes.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.
Oh, we're already off to a bad start. is the worst, Robert.
Yeah, he's the worst Robert.
So I think that the structure here is not bad.
So we have a scene to lead us into the credits where we see a test
fail and we're not kind of given the hint that it's on the
holodeck, but it turns out that it's on the holodeck.
And so, um, so we know what we're trying to do just from McNeil's
dialogue and we get to see the test fail.
Then we get a very boring scene where they make a breakthrough, a
really inept piece of TV, which comes in after the opening
credits.
And then you get...
Yeah, then we get the passing test.
And so I think this economically sets it up.
It does a reasonable job.
I mean, Brack has been right in Star Trek for some time now.
He can structure an episode.
Yeah.
I don't necessarily mean it's going to be a good episode, but you
know.
The nuts and bolts of it are efficient.
Yeah, and he does great high concept episodes. you know, things
like timescape and stuff, like just weird stuff.
The Anna Troy is the birthday cake. remember that one?
Fantasms.
Yes, fantastic.
Right.
Yeah, well, he but he writes fabulous forager episodes as well.
Yeah, yeah.
But he is a problem, isn't he?
And we've said that before.
Well, I always feel like he's a bit like the Chris Carter. of the
Star Trek universe, you know, it's like Miss Muffet.
When he was good, he was very, very good, and when he was bad, he
was awful.
You know, Chris Carter has that problem in the X-Files and Brennan
Brum, that's that problem.
Is it Braga or Braga?
It's Braga, I think.
Okay.
I've been saying it, right?
All this time.
I there was someone at who I worked with who had the same last
name.
The bit where they revealed Voyager in 2 Vics, in the lower decks
episode, right?
Yeah, great.
And the camera was swimming, and the music started playing.
I was like, god that's gorgeous.
Again, it's animation's so good.
It just looks like live action model work.
Yeah, yeah.
It's really good, isn't it?
Yeah, there's a real love for Voyager in that show, even where
they're taking the piss and I love it too.
You know, that's one of the great things about prodigy is how it
foregrounds Kate and Voyager and puts the medium Robert in it and
all of that.
I'm there for it.
The thing that has surprised me most about Voyager doing it for
Untartled Star Trek project is not the big event episodes.
It's not the shitty episodes.
It's the quiet episodes, like resolutions and muse. where that are
completely forgotten.
No one remembers them and they're quietly very good.
Yeah.
And I think there's more of that. actually.
We'll discover more of that as we go along.
Yeah.
Well, just remember, I say that the cast is great.
You know, the worst thing that Voyager does is it gets a fantastic
cast and completely wastes them.
But they can be fantastic.
I thought it's exemplified mostly with Tim Ross of anybody.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, you know, like Robert Beltran was never going to be
particularly great.
No matter what they get.
No, I mean he can be good when he's bothering.
I mean, so this scene here, I think, is really boring.
There's nearly nothing that isn't technobabble.
I didn't write any of this bit.
It just put insert...
And it tries to be a functional scene by having Neelix come along
and immediately kind of get dismissed and then he's the one who
comes up with the idea.
And that's kind of that's it.
That's that's the scene.
Everything else is just technobabble.
I don't know if you recall, but in resolutions and muse and this.
So the last 3 vorder episodes we watched.
Basically, the only scene Neelix had was I'm going to pour you
some coffee and try and help you with the problem you've got this
week.
Yeah.
They really waste him.
So why is the woman have to go and get their cookies as well at
the table?
Like, she's the one.
She's the chief engineer.
She's going off to get the cookies.
And then he solves the problem while she's gone and then she comes
back.
And like I maintain that that Ethan Phillips is great, you know
like, and I think he's great in this in a character that is not
very interesting or likeable in all sorts of ways. i.e. is in 2
directions.
I think sometimes you can be unexpectedly, like if a quite a
mature performance.
It's really surprising.
And sometimes it's just very juvenile.
The writing is so juvenile.
Yeah, it's just irritating, you know?
Like nobody could play and not be irritating.
But he's got sort of solid sitcom instincts, I reckon.
There's a very good reason.
We're not talking about any of this dialogue in this stuff.
No, because it's super boring.
And so it does tell us what warp 10 is and therefore what's at
stake.
And obviously it tells us, you know, if we achieve this, we could
get home with a push of a button.
So we are tying it into the Voyager premise.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And but all I can think about is Kazinski and where no one has
gone before.
And do you remember where they end up in that weird galaxy of
life?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, seeing people do ballet in the cargo bay and weird shit
going on.
Yeah.
But just the beautiful, you know, but this show doesn't bother to
do any of that.
Well, it's centring it all on Paris, isn't it?
Yeah, but so you get a messenger speech from Paris.
So he comes back and says, I experienced everything everywhere all
at once, but we don't get to see anything like that because we
just stay with the ship because that's cheaper.
I blew all the money on the latex.
That's why.
I couldn't afford to do that.
I can't believe this is directed by Alexander Singer, you know
because I don't think there's one inventive shot in this.
And he's generally a very reliable director.
We've done a couple by Alex Anderson where we've praised the
direction.
I think maybe he read the script and went, oh, let's just get it
done.
Yeah, I think that's it.
There's a very sort of definite sense of, for fuck's sake.
That was weird.
You said to sit along with their life.
Exactly the same time.
Tom Paris said that's it at the end.
Yeah.
It's really boring isn't it?
have no idea what they just said.
Now, that's a funny line.
Yeah, yeah, that's pretty great.
Basically, that's exactly what I was feeling.
Yeah And that little bit of business as well, where he walks past
and takes the cookie, you know, and she's sort of standing there
going, what the hell's going on?
Like, that's a little tiny bit of comic business, which is kind of
hard.
Yeah, well, I could do with a bit more of that in forgery, you
know?
Yeah, yeah.
Well, just remember when Janeway says goodbye to them all in
resolutions and says the thing I remember most of all is the
laughter.
And you kind of think, really, I hate the laughter.
You're all so unfunny.
I don't know.
We did love that bit of Muse when Harriet B'lana were back
together again, don't we?
They were laughing the res off.
Yeah.
Okay, I can't believe this fabulous actress has got a terrible
episode.
She was pulling 16 hour days to shoot this.
Oh my god.
There are some really good moments, some shitty weird lines that
she absolutely lands.
And I think at the end where they're all a little bit shell
shocked by how ludicrously high concept it's been.
There is like she's she's actually pretty good.
Did you watch Chakotay said that?
To be honest, it's almost frightening that we might break the war
10 barrier.
Up until now it's only been a frightening.
That's a very strange.
It's not as bad as drastic research, I have to say.
They've got a gift for hyperbole.
Before district writers, don't they?
But look how exciting Kate is.
Far out, she's great.
I could just watch her do anything.
Whenever they lean into her passion for science.
Yeah, yeah, it's wonderful, isn't it?
And Caitlin... nice up, yeah.
It's wonderful.
I thought you might.
And if, like, fuck, for Christ's sake.
Like if he was any good.
And if you got that sense, again, it's this wasted opportunity, you
know, you've got this relationship between Tuvok and Kate, you've
got this relationship between him, he's like someone that she's
brought on board and, you know, rescued from prison, all of that
sort of thing, and you just get nothing.
Now this is an actively ugly scene, I think.
Because he's such a massive prick in it, you know.
It's weird as well, because they're just about to do this.
Tom Paris arc, aren't they?
Where he's supposedly going Rome.
And it's all a trick to uncover Michael Jonas, which is quite
clear. done.
Um, But apart from that, they never, ever go back.
You know, you said that about her taking him from the penal colony
and caretaker. and that sort of redemption art.
It's just like he took puts on the uniform and laser, upstanding
Starfleet officer from that point on.
I mean, they gesture at that here.
Like there is some attempt in one of the scenes that like just
that terrible scene where Mutant Paris and Janeway talk.
They talk about, you know, how all of the, you know, high opinion
everyone has of him is a lie and blah, blah, blah.
Like, and but just all of that's so whiny and weird and ugly.
It just all comes across as ego, though, doesn't it?
Yeah, this, no, that's exactly what it is.
Well, that's why it comes across like that because it's all ego.
This is my flight.
I'm a massive asshole.
It all scoffs, doesn't he?
2%?
Oh, I'll take my chance.
Ah, 2%.
Yeah, yeah. off.
My father used to tell me I was...
Oh, God, you're an adult.
Who gives a shit what your father thought?
Grow up.
My teacher's so boring, kids.
They all used to say Tom Paris is going to do something special
when he grows up.
Oh, so pathetic.
It's so bad.
And all of that dialogue.
There's like acts 3 and 4 are just that. him whining self
pityingly.
It's so unattractive. personal redemption, as you just said to
him.
You can trust Jane Way to get to the heart, the matter.
Yeah, it's a terrible scene.
You're right.
Are we supposed to like him here?
I think we're supposed to...
But he's horrible.
And that's the thing.
I think that the Voyager writing stuff think he's likeable. but I
think he's a massive egotist and a prick.
Like, he comes off as just an absolute asshole in this scene.
More often than not, as you explore the Tom Bellano relationship
yeah.
And I vividly remember this when I watched the series through as a
whole.
It's always about him just putting her to one side and saying, oh
my latest thing, you know, the TV, the cartoons, the shuttle, Alice
whatever, and her just going, oh, will you please look at me?
throughout the entire...
I think at any point they make him likeable.
But this really exemplifies the flaws with this character.
And I do think that that redemption thing of, you know, him being
a criminal, her taking him along, they really could have lent into
that and made that a really interesting arc.
But there is no arc.
No, no.
Oh, here we go.
So this is the 3rd time we've done this now in the episode.
Yeah.
So we've had unsuccessful test, which was quite short, to be fair
that we had the successful test, which was on the screen.
So it wasn't, we weren't there directly.
We were watching it on the screen.
And now we have it here.
But again, and one of the things that the, leads them to introduce
the Delta Flyer is that that set is boring and flying the ship
involves sitting and pressing touchscreen buttons.
So you never get a real sense of flying anything and it's, it's
like this.
Like the camera's not shaking.
He's bouncing up and down.
Why is the camera not shaking?
I saw going on a bit.
Yeah, the lights are going in and off.
Someone's offscreen to flicking the lights on and off, like the
light switch and like the singer's keeping the camera steady on
him.
Why is that?
But one thing that works in this scene is you cut to Michael Jonas
looking evil at his console.
I'm going to contact the caseon about this. and let them know
about walked in.
That's, that is the, you know, it's the only time Voyager does
this and it's rum.
It's how many sort of running plot lines going on.
And it certainly doesn't redeem threshold, but it's a, it's an
enticing moment, shall we say, of about 5 seconds.
But so we, we stay with the crew because they're all in standing
sets and they're all just standing around talking and so that's
cheap to shoot. you know, and then he comes back.
We don't stay with him and we just let him tell us how marvellous
it is and we don't get to see it.
Like, look, oh, look, see, that is as weird as we get.
It appears in a slightly weird way in the in the, you know, the
shot, the model shot.
Did they not mention?
I swear there was a mention of stellar cartography in this.
Yeah, there was.
And we don't actually get to see it until series 5 when they've
got the budget to make the set, you know?
Yeah, but that's not that's Astramatrics, remember?
Oh, yeah, photography.
Do we ever see Stella cartography then?
In Star Trek, the Next Generation.
It's the big giant set in generation. generations.
Yeah.
So there's one of those on this ship.
We just never see it.
See, I love this.
I actually really love that, where...
Wake up, Latana, wake him up, and he just shouts to wake up, we
turn it, and then Janeway's reaction is really great, and the
doctor is really great.
Like, that's dumb, but that's more enjoyable than just about
anything else that happens in this episode.
Picardo is basically the one person who's trying to put their
comedy into this, isn't he?
He has a couple of lines.
I think he has a really good moment as well, and I don't know if
it was his choice or not, but I thought it was really great.
But yes, I think he is pretty good.
But again, they make him boring in this because he's just talking
about, you know, cell membranes and blah, blah, blah, you know
it's all just grab.
I meant to tell you, I do think there is a single worst piece of
direction ever in Star Trek in there.
Oh, certainly, so far on this run, I can't wait to get to that
point.
Oh, okay.
Excellent.
It's so fucking limp. it's untrue I was everywhere, captain, and I
mean...
Everywhere, show.
It's not a radio play.
Go on, show us.
Far out.
No, I don't think one of this episode has going for it.
It wouldn't have cost a fortune.
No, no, no.
I know, just like what they do with Cisco in that white set or
something like that.
Anything. anything.
Yeah.
Yeah, because Instead, it ends up being boring and ugly.
Yeah?
And this whole thing, sorry, I know you were going to say it don't
really matter, but this whole thing about being everywhere, all at
once.
Well, I, that seems to make sense to me because, like, if it's a
limit.
Do you know what I mean?
part of the problem is that it's the round number 10.
Do you know what I mean?
And they've also done sort of fun references to Warp 13 and stuff
in the future.
Like, I think all good things, you know, the, um, you know, Beverly
ship travels, the pasta travels at Warp 13 because of that, the
future.
But the idea that 10 is the limit.
Like a real limit, the way that the speed of light is a limit.
What's the nature about that as well?
wasn't force of nature about breaking the warp 10 barrier.
No, no, it's about the way that subspace is being degraded by
travelling through it.
And they've got a limit of warp 5 at the end of that, yeah. at the
beginning of this.
Yeah, yeah, just a few episodes. just forgot about it.
I, there was a, I think there was a good Picardo line as well, but
I hope we missed it, and I can't remember what it was, but there
was another one in that scene.
I cannot believe how boring this is to look at.
There's just no inventiveness in the shooting of this.
No, they're all just standing around talking techno babble like
that. lots of shots of planets and stuff.
How much?
You know what they could have done?
They could have just to suggest, you know, he's everywhere at
once.
Just cut to very quick shots of old episodes on different planets
and some news reports of the past and things like that, you know
just very quickly for like 30 seconds.
Yeah, anything, just weird space looking, you know, swirly things
would have done it.
Nathan, it could change the very nature of our existence.
Look at her.
There would be nothing beyond our reach.
And look at her little bit of data and stuff.
She's so good.
She's a bit of a god complex now, isn't she?
Yeah.
But I mean, that is the interesting thing about it.
And if it was going to be about that, that would have been
interesting, but obviously it's not.
It's going to be about him whining self-pityingly in Sick Bay for
ages and ages.
I don't think there's any great surprise that Neelix's coffee has
a detrimental effect on Tom Paris's health.
Yeah, he's allergic to the water.
Yeah.
See, B'lana likes Neelix.
I love B'lana.
She's so great.
Look at that.
Why did they forget about her for 3 seasons?
I know.
It's crazy, isn't it?
She's so good.
You know, right?
Just very quickly back to 2 weeks again.
The ending with all that cheese coming out of all the consoles.
I mean, it's another shit episode.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They're making fun.
It was very funny. much funnier than this.
Oh my god, this is not funny.
This is not fun.
Oh, this Tetla babble.
Like, like, the techno babble was bad enough for me.
Then you get the daddy issue stuff and I'm like, please, can we go
back to the techno babble.
Then we get the then we get him turning into a lizard and puke out
his tongue and I'm like, please, can we go back to the daddy
issues?
Well, at least at least when it's a lizard is not delivering
dialogue, though.
Like, that's there's that, you know?
Do you think that?
Do I think he's a good actor then?
I don't know. given him a lot to do.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, they must think he's a good actor. cast him.
I think because the 1st duty went down so well.
Yeah.
It has a lot to ask for.
He does a great scene in the 1st year.
I no, no, no.
He is pretty good in that one.
So what happened?
I don't know.
It might be the writing.
I think the 1st duty is an extraordinarily well-written episode of
Star Trek.
Ramore, isn't it?
Yeah.
Well, one thing that Voyager didn't have only for one episode at
least.
Yeah.
Yeah, it was just very well written.
And so Nick Lacano's character was really super, like
charismatic.
And, you know, Duncan, like, the worst Robert was able to kind of
make that happen.
Well, like, is this stuff being made, you know, it's also being
factory made?
26 episodes a year.
They're churning it out.
To a point where, you know, somebody, a good writer like Brana
Braga gets a synopsis like this with that he's got to turn into a
teleplay where he can't just go, look, let's not make this.
I'll I'll think something up.
I'm not going to write this.
But we don't have time to do that and he can't necessarily come
up.
You know, you see him once he's run out of ideas.
You're like, well, this, like this acting that we're getting from
Robert here.
Can I do it?
Because I always do it when he does it.
He just goes, no.
You can't say no.
It's so bad. and look, he's just more and more technobabble.
It's so boring. processing oxygen. can only hope.
Oh, yeah.
Oh yeah.
Oh, these isolation feels...
Do you know what, right?
I told you last week.
One side of this, you've got alliances.
The other side of this, you've got meld and death wish.
Like there's 3 of the best episodes of Voyager.
How is this nestled in the middle?
I know, and we like series two.
I mean, that's the thing we like series 2 of Voyager on the...
I do think the 1st half of 2 really struggles and I'm wondering if
this is pitched around that time.
Right.
You know, to the point where the production team did say, we've
got to pull up our socks and do something more excited than this.
Right, right.
I mean, this is the cardinal scene of it, isn't it?
It's boring.
So he's dying.
Do we go to an ad break with him dying and then he just gets
better?
Like, like, because nothing is happening at the moment, except
they're all standing around talking.
We have to invent a reason to go to the ad break that is just made
up.
Well, I think they're underestimating their audience if they think
we're going to get any suspense in the idea of Tom Paris dying.
Yeah, that's true.
That's true.
That would be a course of celebration.
Oh, poor Jennifer Lee.
Oh, look at him.
He looks ghastly.
Yeah, it does.
We've barely begun.
Yeah, I know.
I actually really like, so there's a thing that where he says kiss
me.
Like he does this sort of thing imagining his funeral and how
they'll be all beautiful women there crying and just think, fuck
dream on.
A latex factor for this.
Like, it's like, it's gross.
But he says kiss me and the doctor goes, I can't remember.
It's kind of like, I don't know.
I don't feel that way about you.
He doesn't say that, but he does say, he does kind of rebuff it.
And then when he dies, she goes over and kisses him on the cheek
and like I thought that was nice.
Looking like that.
I know, but that was actually what was kind of nice about it.
She's just sweet, you know?
Well, you've got to remember, in the 1st half of the season, we've
had this whole Neelix, Tom Paris, Kez triangle going on to the
point.
Do you remember where they were throwing spaghetti dinners at each
other and then going down on the planet and birthing Muppet babies
or something?
Oh my god.
Is that parturition?
Yeah, terrible.
You got to remember the puppet babies in this.
Twisted is Twisted is in the 1st half series 2 as well.
I mean, there was some tricky times.
Yeah, for sure.
This was however, the trickiest of times.
This is so boring.
Like, this is him talking about his childhood bedroom and how he
would go then to masturbate and read comics and like, oh, yeah.
Picardo's reaction to hearing about him losing his virginity and
he does this. note that in your medical file.
And you know, like, that's not a super funny line, but he's
great.
That, you know, he can make that stuff work.
And this.
Oh god, pepperoni, fuck off.
This is so boring and bad.
But I think it's appeared into a certain type of Americanness
isn't it?
Pepperoni pizza, losing your virginity, having a truck, you know
all that sort of stuff.
I think this pepperoni pizza and losing my virginity.
That's those are both good things.
I'm not American.
Like, I don't understand what's, but like, I just don't want to
hear the worst, Robert, banging on and on about it for whole
scenes.
I didn't want to say the word jock, but I think like that's the
idea.
I think that's the idea.
Yeah, but he's not because he's made by Robert Duncan McNeil.
If it was beefy, you know, it might work.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Until my dad that I did it.
He said...
Oh, far out.
It's so bad.
Just die. come on And do you remember?
Drew, actually, do you remember when you finally sees his dad?
Yeah, exactly.
It's that inoffensive old Admiral.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it's a lovely moment. really touching.
But there's no hint of the the the tension that they're going for
yeah.
Like, it's just the most generic thing imaginable.
Do you know what I mean?
He disappointed his father.
Like, that is so dull.
Who cares, you know?
No, so we're not going to revive him.
Thank God.
Nathan his cell membranes have degraded.
Yeah, yeah.
It's like when, yeah, that's bad, because they keep your, the
stuff in the sound.
Remove the acid chloride gas from the, oh, fuck, this dialogue.
All of it.
It's so boring.
And this, here's the bit that I like that I, that Picardo does
which I think is really good, because he's doing a good job.
Look at this.
He goes to put his hand on her.
Shoulder and then decides not to.
And it's kind of like all, you know, there's that he, you know
when he shouts in, in um, Paris's ear to wake him up and Janeway
reacts.
It's kind of like, yeah, that's right.
He's a bit of an asshole, but he's just a computer program.
You know, there is that problem about the doctors, bedside manner
and that was just a little moment of humanity, which I thought was
really good.
Like, I hope it was in the script, but if it wasn't, it was a
great, you know, that was Picardo doing a really good thing.
And I think she's...
The benefit of having an ensemble cast that we're in week in, week
out because we did another episode recently.
I can't remember which one it was, where it was pretty dreamable.
We cut to Janeway, getting news that we're never going to see
Harry Kim again or something like that.
And it was a really lovely moment where she sort of looks off
screen, sort of loggingly that she'll never see it again.
Well, that was in news, remember?
We're coming up to it now.
Okay.
I think it's this thing.
No, it's not quite yet.
No, sorry, not going to shut up.
This is where Tom Paris is dead alive, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah.
Which, uh, why?
Why did his body die and then come to life again?
Because we needed some jeopardy.
We needed something to happen.
These scenes couldn't just be people talking.
I thought it was a relief that the episode was over when he died.
Yeah, no, look, he's still alive.
Oh my god.
And so what happened to his he pulls his hair out?
Oh, this is where it just all starts to get icky and horrid.
Yeah, so we're doing the fly.
That's been neatly cut off.
We can see that.
Like what's happening there?
He hasn't pulled any hair out.
That's neatly cut off someone.
And he just doesn't have the chops to do any of this.
No, and so the fly is when.
Is it the 80s?
It's like Gina Davis and Jeff Goldblum, and it's directed by Star
Trek's very own David Cronenberg.
Unforgettably grotesque, isn't it?
Yeah, fantastic.
This is a sort of PG version of this.
Where we do it for a scene.
And it we just keep cutting to him in various stages, don't we?
So there's no transformation at any point.
No, we don't get to see anything like that.
We're in a sinister way.
The weird thing is right.
Every time we cut to him, I swear they did all of these shots in a
day for all the episodes.
Because it's always this angle with the pad, just there in front
of the camera.
And it's always the same case on...
It's the same case on who we who was in alliances, I think, we saw
him in alliances.
Imagine if we just had Cesca pop up here for us.
Hello, Jonas.
She would have, she would have let up this episode.
I do like that though, that this is a running thing.
Let's do that.
Yeah, it's great.
But this is the pillar effect.
Yeah.
Yes.
So here we have a scene which I'm embarrassed, you know, that Kate
had to participate in.
Like, I just feel I'm cringing the entire time that Kate Mulgrew
is having to do this.
In a way, like I should be cringing that Robert Picardo is having
to do it as well.
Um, and he's doing a great job of, you know, selling this crap.
Um, but Janeway, like how do you even react to this?
And, you know, again, we get a messenger speech from the doctor
where he just says he's behaving oddly, you know, he's deranged at
times.
He knows who we are, but, you know, sometimes he says very odd
things and he warns her and all of that.
That's what's happening here And then it's just self-pitying
moaning that he's doing for ages and ages, which is just just
unpleasant to watch, and she's having to find a way to react to
it.
I don't know if you remember in Mailed, which is the next episode
I think.
We're doing exactly the same thing.
We turned deranged in that one, but there's a sequence in his
quarters where he's in the silhouette and Janeway is too scared to
come in because he's been shown to be violent and there's an
intensity to it and Russ plays it in a formidable way.
And it's just electrifying to watch.
It's the antithesis of this, you know?
Yeah, yeah.
Like, it's awful, like, it's really bright lighting as well.
Well, so you look...
Oh, it's just awful.
I think we really win an award for that.
Yeah, it's just so bad.
And, and doesn't, um, she says you've looked better, which I think
is a well-delivered line, and look at her looking concern.
But I mean, all of this moaning and character stuff, like it's so
bad. don't want to look at him right now.
No, it's, So there's something inflating the latex bag that his
head's in.
Do you know what I mean?
They're blowing air into it in order to make a...
I'm going to make a bit of an obscure reference.
But revelation of the Daleks, a 1980s Doctor Who story, did a
mutant with a pulsating head covered in organs, which was
genuinely grotesque and looked miles better than this on one 10th
of the budget.
Oh, the budget, Eve that.
They've just slapped more and more...
It's really unimaginative.
It is trying to look a bit like Brundlefly, I guess, but this, fuck
shut up.
Like, it, like, doesn't he have some kind of hypo spray that can
make him lie down and stop saying this dialogue?
Because this is unpleasant.
He's doing his sort of...
Why can't you just say it?
Nobody loves me.
I need to transform me.
Barry, you dead, captain, you know.
It's ugly.
It's better than in a minute when he's lying on the chair and he's
like, he's kind of doing his all of his dialogue like that.
Like, why don't you feel sorry for me?
Very old.
Yeah, it's awful.
Look at her trying.
Look at her trying to make it work.
Proof conclusive that sometimes even K mole grew.
No, no, because this is shit.
Oh, yeah.
Fuck off.
Like, can we flood the thing with something else?
They do that exact moment in meld, right?
Where the force builds up and Tuvoxgone Evil, and he lashes out of
the force field at Janeway.
It's amazing.
It's like he stabbed a knife at her or something.
It's really what that is just shit.
I'm sorry Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, he's the tongue thing.
Jesus Christ. thought this was a good idea.
I mean, this really is the flaw on a budget this.
We're just going to be bobbing out his tongue.
Yeah, yeah, but it's so they're looking for Jennifer having to
react to that as well.
Maybe this was the scene that he was talking about when he was
like, I can't believe they're going to shoot this.
They're going to shoot that.
It's so bad.
Is that the worst of the episode?
I think it might be Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
It's the self-pity and the just the sheer boringness of it.
It lifts a bit when the, the, you know, their salamander is
fucking on an unconvincing alien planet.
That's actually quite good by comparison.
Oh, is all anyone remembers?
This, like, oh, fucking shut him up.
Like, and now he's sitting on the ground in his pyjamas.
He doesn't, like, you know, he's coughed up his tongue, but
somehow he's managing to out of consonants that require it.
Like, it's really boring.
And he's sort of going blue.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like what's that?
What is that?
It's so awful If someone, a non-trek person walked into the room
and I was watching this, oh, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'll be like, yes, it's sophisticated science fiction.
Intelligence themes.
That's exactly it.
Oh, yuck.
Oh, he looks grim, doesn't he?
Mind you, you know when he sort of, it all goes a bit shiny in his
face.
And he's got that weird sort of beaky mouth.
No, he pretty much looks like this in series 7, I think.
They've ironed it all out in lower deck when they bring it back.
The chores of animation.
Like, what, what, what, what do we think the appeal of this here?
Do you know what I mean?
If we like Tom Paris as a character, this is unpleasant to watch.
We all know that it's not going to go anywhere, so why are they
making us watch this?
Like, what is it?
And it goes on for fucking ever.
It's indefensible.
It's so bad.
Oh, here's some techno babble. which is quite nice. makes a change
of bass.
No, that's not a better thing. sadly, it is a better thing.
For once, I look great.
Yeah, you're right.
Who is this supposed to appeal to?
Yeah, like, what are those scenes for?
They're not character stuff.
They're not entertaining.
They're, like, the wine is so basic.
No, the reset's gonna be...
I mean, even I, when I 1st watched this, didn't realise that they
were going to go quite this far to where the climax of this story
goes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because I remember I remember watching it going, well, how the
hell are they going to reset this?
Yeah, it's just like, the doctor has repaired it with his usual
skill.
Okay, exactly right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, but at least in Genesis, they make a joke out of that.
Like I said before, that's funny.
Oh my god.
Like, what's this?
Yeah, like that's... what?
I was going to say something really horrible then.
It's awful.
Where does it go on the Bo Mars scale?
I once looked in my toilet once and I saw something that looked
very like that, you know.
Yeah, no, it's unpleasant.
On the bow mask scale.
Oh no, it doesn't work.
You think it's crossing the threshold, the Boba threshold?
too disgusting.
Oh, look at her.
Oh, this is about our first techna babble.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But him breathing through that latex mask and opening and closing
his mouth and stuff.
Oh, this is it.
This is the moment of direction.
Okay, so watch.
And his escape is all done on a screen and all you see is the
engineering set and these 2 themes of the phaser.
I actually quite like that.
It's so terrible.
It's the lady, I feel like, look at it.
I don't have to look at Robert.
Like, it's kind of fun because it all happens.
The camera's just there.
We can't, we know that something's happening, but we can't see
it.
Everyone runs on beams.
Everyone's sort of right and it's like...
Oh, it's so cheap.
He's really cheap, isn't it?
We can't be bothered doing that scene at all.
There was a there was a Doctor Who story was where they managed to
do a revolution by just having 2 laser sound effects in the
distance and they went, oh, listen, that's the revolution.
That's the Voyager, equivalent of that.
Yeah, so cheap.
Oh, God.
And so he just shot our thing and now everything's not working
properly so he can escape and take Kate with him.
Power failures.
We can't track him.
No sensors. are so boring.
So we're doing the back of Kate's neck, which means that we know
that she's going to be attacked and she senses it, which I think
is pretty great.
Like that's, and then this. was knock her to the floor, though.
I don't think she could hear her head.
No, that's bullshit.
It's cold, but you, for God's sakes.
Yeah.
It annoys me that people on Star Trek who are writing Star Trek
don't know that localised means confined to a small area and not
locate.
It's not just a fancy word for locate.
Localise it.
Just crazy.
I don't think that's the biggest problem with the dog.
No, it probably is.
I'm honest.
Yeah, no that's fair.
It is, it is.
Yeah, terrible, but Oh, here we go.
That looks stupid.
Oh my god.
He does look like a massive turd.
So ridiculous.
A massive turn with a mouth.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
All right.
Go into hyperspace, like whatever.
Transform.
Yeah, but even then we only see the transition.
We don't see what they see No, I'll show you.
This is the this is the weird effect that they think conveys it.
You look, we're about to be in the shuttle.
Basically, fade to why?
Yeah, it's so boring.
It's so boring Well, there's sort of a bit of a swirly pattern on
Bulgrew's face, I think.
Eight years ago, we do a better job in Star Trek series one, which
is universally panned for being dreadful, but at least it still
knows that it's got to try and look interesting.
Oh no, he goes, quick, no, structural failure in 45 seconds. that
means they can't keep up with them.
No, because they can't go at warp thing, warp above warp 9 point
something.
And I know, I know you're saying like the lizard stuff is kind of
fun in a really, really stupid way.
It's dumb.
But it's like, that's it.
That's as weird as we can manage.
Like that's that's supposed to make us, we're supposed to be happy
with that.
Somebody must have looked at that synopsis. this part of the
episode and gone, why are we doing this?
Yeah.
Like, this has lost all reason and good taste.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it just manages to be in no way entertaining at all.
Like, no one read that script and thought, this is really boring.
And why is he saying boring?
Like, why is he telling us about his childhood bedroom?
Like, why are we hearing this?
And then this speech.
So we're sort of getting this talk about evolution.
We're going to learn something about evolution from this.
Just terrible.
I have said that a lot.
It's terrible.
No, I know.
Yeah. accelerated the natural human evolutionary process by
1000000s of years.
Like that makes no sense.
After something, in all DNA, know, what environmental changes are
going to happen.
You're going to possibly know that.
That's right.
And we know that.
I mean that's okay.
And, you know, like we, the only reason we have Genesis is because
some ludicrous DNA nonsense happens and that's all fine, but that
happens in an episode that has something going for it.
But it doesn't even need to be that.
It could just be, oh, this happens to be the mutation that happens
when you go to warp 10, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Just reputations in DNA, but what they think is that if you change
your DNA, you change your body, that doesn't happen. we go.
These are the most infamous scenes in Voyager now, the lizards.
You're right.
I thought they were toysed.
They're massive.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. people in them.
No, no, no, please don't tell me there's an actor in there.
I hope there is.
Are they big?
Surely they're big puppets.
Okay, maybe they're big puppets.
Are they big puppets with people?
When they shoot them, they sort of wobble about.
They go, and they just sort of fall to the ground.
The babies are adorable.
Yeah, they're cool.
Oh, one of the babies because they're... the sort of CGI for the
time.
I thought that's not terrible.
There's people in them.
I think there's people.
Look, look, he's walking on his hands.
He's adorable.
What did you do today, darling?
I made your dinner.
Tell me about your day.
How was work on the boys to say?
fun.
This is fun.
Again, super boring.
The most low effort alien planet we've ever seen.
We've got raided the production officer from some ferns and we put
some sand on the ground.
It's stock jungle set one.
It's so boring.
Which one is it?
The female, of course.
That's a funny line.
That is a funny line.
That's so adorable.
There they go.
They've had a bit of practice with that episode.
Oh, there's CG babies.
There you go.
Yeah, I know though.
So I think they look fun. was pretty good.
I like his line.
I don't know how I'm going to enter this into the log and then he
says, I look forward to reading it.
That's pretty great.
The chewbot line where he goes, which one's the captain?
Well, the female. of course.
That's quite funny.
Oh, my God. dear.
I don't think I've ever seen anything quite as stupid as that
though, on any other show.
Look at Kate. giving side eye to Tom who's clearly off camera.
I'm the direction.
Kate, we want you to, the beginning of the scene, and you've just
been reevolved, and you just need to convey all of that with a
look.
Off you go.
She manages it because she's Kate Mulgrew.
Oh, this line, which she goes, I never imagined having children.
But I certainly didn't imagine having them with you.
It's so well delivered.
It's so shit and she absolutely lands that stupid line.
It's wonderful.
This is why we need prestige actors as regulars in Star Trek
shows.
Oh, crap.
Gosh.
And then, like, so there was something in memory, Alfred, and I'm
not quite sure where, like, as if Robert Duncan McNeil had some
say in how this scene went as if some of the dialogue was his.
And this is a bad scene because, again, it's trying to salvage
something out of this just giant mess that hasn't managed to be
about anything.
And it brings us back to the daddy issue staff, you know.
So what happens now?
It goes in the log that he achieved it so that we don't explore
this anymore because you're going to turn into a lizard.
So is there a band now on research into warp 10.
Yeah, I think so.
But the thing that I like, which is really great, because she says
and I'm putting accommodation on your record, he says, why?
And I just wanted to say, because you were a pretty good lay, you
know?
And I also like her thing where she says, actually, what makes you
think you initiated it?
Yeah, okay.
That's a good line.
I feel that that's where Bragg is on firmer ground. where we can
have some fun with...
But I like it when it goes about, you know, turning into a lizard
having babies, and then Janeway goes, you've broken more than one
record today.
Oh, fuck me.
I look at you with such admiration.
Oh, yeah.
It's so bad.
Yeah, it's really super bad.
And then that terrible final line.
I just hope they're not theoretical impossibilities. and she goes
somehow, I think they won't be.
Just say fuck off.
I'll tell you how good Kate Mulgrew is, right?
She has, throughout these 7 years, she has all these scenes with
Robert Duncan McNeil and Garrett Wang, 2 dreadful actors, and she
manages to sell those relationships.
On her own for 7 years. getting nothing back at all from the other
actors.
Yeah, and increasingly getting nothing back from the medium, Robert
either, who kind of checks out at some point quite early on, I
think.
Mel to started, and we're in Sandrines.
Now, someone's about to be murdered in the warp coil.
Oh, that's fabulous episode.
Why the hell didn't we watch that?
Brad Dorov's in it?
Oh, it's terrific in it as well.
Regular character semi-regular.
Yeah, that's pretty amazing, isn't it?
Pretty good.
I did say to you, I was going to give you one more quote at the
end of that riveting episode of Star Trek Voyager. and it's back
to Brannan Braga again.
Who, after a few years of thinking about it, is now quoted in 2003
of saying, it's a terrible episode.
People are very unforgiving about that episode.
I've written well over a 100 episodes of Star Trek.
100 Yeah, yeah.
Amazing.
Did you see that what the average of good to bad is?
Yet it seems to be the only episode anyone brings up, you know?
Brannan Braga who wrote threshold out of 100 and some episodes.
You've got to have some stinkers.
Unfortunately, that was a royal steaming stinker.
Oh, good for him for at least admitting it.
Not trying to blame anyone else, although there is a lot of blame
to go around.
There is just a tiny bit of trivia that is worth mentioning here
as well.
Despite its lack of popularity, this episode of Star Trek Voyager
was one of the only few episodes commemorated by Playmates toys
with the launch of an episode-specific Voyager action figure
release.
In this case, the release was an action figure of the episode's
hyper-evolved Tom Paris, complete with a phaser and his 3 mutant
offspring.
Wow.
What if there'd been a Paris and a Janeway and you could have
rubbed them against one another and stuff?
I don't know, I know what you're getting for Christmas.
All right, it's the end of the episode and it is time for us to
discover what we're going to be doing next week.
Threshold was your choice.
The only way is up.
Yeah, and we're not ever doing Voyager again.
That's it.
I've just declared that unilaterally.
We've had far, far too much Voyager.
Hardly enough, I feel as if that was what happened when people
watched this on the original rub.
I'm never watching this show again.
Do you know what?
Can I just say one last scene?
Yeah, and I realise this is completely off topic given this is the
moment we choose.
This was the 3rd highest rated episode of series two.
That's upsetting.
No wonder no one came back.
A lot of people were exposed to it. right.
All right.
So we're going to choose an episode of Star Trek, the original
series as a...
Oh, yes.
And that's all we have. on the Randomiser, which is, of course, at
untitled Star Trek project.com slash randomiser.
I'm going to have to bring up a website because every time we do
this, I'm going to let people know they're behind scenes now.
Every time we do this, we'd be doing original series episodes.
We're like, we've got no idea, well, that's good.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, that is a thing.
All right.
So, I'm pressing the button and it is your random Star Trek, the
original series episode, is season two, episode 19, a Private
Little War.
Right, Little War.
I'm going to read you the synopsis, okay?
Okay.
Private little war.
When the Klingons are on the aggressing side of a primitive
culture with firearms, Kirk takes it upon himself to arm the other
side in the effort to level the playing field.
I think that I have watched that reasonably recently, it is
terrible, but it is the episode that the Megato are from.
It sounds like it could be quite interesting.
It's not good, like it isn't good.
And so if we want to do something good, we should do it.
I mean, you know, the Megato we've seen, we did that episode of
Lower Decks that featured them.
Let's try something good.
We've done too many 1st roles recently. think so.
I think that's absolutely.
We've been sticking to the premise of this podcast far too long.
A little bit too hard.
Okay.
Your random Star Trek, the original series episode is, it's like
the next one or the one really nearby.
The Gamesters of Triskelion, season two, episodes 16.
Okay, so Jama gives this one star.
So it's probably going to be really good, which would be great.
Um, Kirk, Ahura, and Chekhov are kidnapped to the planet
Triskellion, and forced to engage in arena games to the amusement
of 3 powerful aliens who bet on the outcomes of the fights.
I mean, it sounds ghastly.
Yeah, it does sound pretty terrible.
Roll it again.
I'm going to roll again.
So Jammer gave threshold some score, and then he went back and
revised it down to 0 stars.
Okay.
He says that he admits it in his review that he originally gave it
maybe a very generous half a star or one star.
And then fall down to that.
What the hell was I thinking?
Yeah, yeah.
All right, here goes.
Season three, episode 14, whom gods destroy.
While delivering medicine to a pedal colony for the insane, Kirk
and Spock are taken prisoner by a megalomaniac bent on unleashing
his wrath upon the universe.
That sounds fun.
Yeah, back in the day, we joked about a Star Trek episode, which I
have watched, and I think it's this one.
I'm pretty sure it's this one that had an exploding green woman in
it.
And obviously, obviously that's an Orion.
So it's an Orion girl called Martyr, and she explodes in this
episode, and that was a thing that we thought was sort of super
hilarious.
Um, so that's... in one particularly cruel scene, Marta is blown
up.
It sounds amazing.
He also says most of the episode is hopelessly cooly and
overplayed, so I really want to watch it now.
Yeah, I think it could be pretty good.
It could be fun.
It could also be ghastly.
We haven't really dipped our toast too much into season 3 and it's
the Freiburger year, isn't it?
would be interesting to discover a bit more about that.
All right, let's do that. whom gods destroy.
Let's do it.
Oh, it's ghastly, isn't it?
Yeah.
Oh, no, that was miserable.
I reckon I reckon we go out on the Christmas.
Oh okay. you think?
Yeah, that's a good place to it.
Oh, Jesus Christ.
So bad.
I chose... chose that one.
No, technically you chose that one because I would have skipped
it.
And you said, no, we had to do it.
We've got to do it.
Yeah, how can we not do it?
Oh, God, it looks like you're being eaten by that lizard then.
It looked like you were being eaten by that lizard.
You literally went, right, in its mouth.
So stupid.
So the peak charm. show me that I'm gonna use and I'm gonna
sometimes I cheat slightly by just improving the lighting if it's
a bit rough.
Sending it on there on the chat.
Yeah, I've just got to find it.
So.
Where is it?
It's really dark.
So you can't see anything, but I can fix that.
The little puppity guy.
They little puppets, they say it all.
The best part of the episode.
Yeah.
Oh my god, I can't believe I can't believe there's a toy of that.
I wonder how much that sales for.
Look, I won't do it quite as bad as this, but I'm going to export
that and show you parish threshold toy.
I want to see if anyone's selling it.
Oh yeah.
Oh really?
Quite a say.
Look at that.
Oh, show me, show me, show me, show me, show me, show me.
Wait a sec.
It's on the screen.
Oh no, I thought it'd be the lizard.
Why can't it be the little?
I would love a little.
Where are the little babies?
Wait.
It's in the in the chat, but you can barely see them, but I've got
a better picture.
Oh, it's only £57. it could be worth it Here you go.
This is...
Oh no, that's so good.
Oh, there's a YouTube video. 2 minutes unboxing. embarrassed
mutating in French.
Oh, no.
Oh no, that's awesome.
Oh, how wonderful.
I love Star Trek fans.
Wow.
All right, it's my go.
It's nearly 10.
I should, um.
I would just like to hang on.
That's what comes with it.
You get 3 of those.
Oh, no, that's so shit.
I actually do just look like turds, don't I?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ugh.
I'll be a fun listen, though, you know?
So it's here.
Nathan.
Oh yeah, here you go.
I'll send you this.
I'm not it's not going to be as extreme as this.
But that is clearer.
Oh, that's yeah, that's the last bit.
Oh, it's a lot clearer, isn't it?
Look at the 2 the 2 adults either side. as well.
Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna, um, like I'll bring it down so it's not
quite so obviously done as that, but I sometimes do that.
Well, if we've got a podcast on this show.
Yeah, it's so bad, isn't it?
All right, it's my guy.
Just so we get to the thing.
It's so stupid.
It's so boring and yucky.
It's a yucky. and have something good next week.
We should always try and keep the balance, you know?
Okay, let's do it.
You know where you're going?
Yeah.