WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 21:59:28

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, we are heading back to Voyager this week, and we're, I, is it

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like episode 22 or something of series... precisely episode 22 of

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series six.

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That's it.

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I was looking at it earlier, and it's called Muse, not the Muse.

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I had a little moment of anxiety about that, but that's a deep

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space 9 episode with Jake, isn't it?

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Oh, with the writer that's sucking all the creative juices out of

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his brain.

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Jake.

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That's right.

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Yeah.

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This episode, I think, was really delightful.

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Like I had a lot of fun.

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I think there's a central guest performance, which is great, the

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main guest character is just terribly sweet.

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Your suite is more sexy.

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Awful, it was sexy as hell.

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Yeah, both, I think.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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But he's sort of adorable.

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He's sort of puppy-ish.

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Also, I think it's doing the same sort of thing that Dharmok is

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doing.

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And I'm not saying this is anywhere near as good as Darmok, but

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it's placing Star Trek in a literary tradition and in this case

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it's ancient Greek drama.

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You know a little something about that, don't you?

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I do a little bit.

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I think that the interesting thing about Voyager is, of course

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that it's a story about homecoming, and for the ancient Greeks

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there were 2 great poems, there's the Iliad, which is a series of

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events that happened in the last year of the Trojan War.

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And then there's the Odyssey, which is the big homecoming where

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Odysseus spends 10 years trying to get home after that war is

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finished and he's on a boat and he undergoes all sorts of

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adventures and stuff.

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And this is not the last time that that way of understanding

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Voyager will crop up because I think workforce is that in series

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7?

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Yeah.

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I think that 2 parter is very much based on the idea of the lotus

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eaters and stuff like that.

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And so here we have a culture that understands Voyager's journey

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but understands it as a journey home by sea and is playing it

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out.

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And what we get by having this played out in the theatrical

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tradition that's, you know, 25000 years old and is very familiar, I

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think, we get to look at what Star Trek does and what it's for.

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And I think it's done very well.

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In an episode that's otherwise, you know, recently run of the mill

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but definitely agreeable.

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As I was watching scenes that we typically see on Voyager, play on

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the stage.

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I have to say, I was enjoying them far more in this version than I

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was in the usual.

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And then when I sent you a message because at the beginning of act

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2, we then chipped back to Voyager and I was like, wow, this is a

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far less fun version of what I was watching on the stage.

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Yeah.

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It's not as well lit.

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It's certainly not as melodramatic, you know?

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It costumes are not as good.

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There's a real immediacy about seeing it on the stage, you know?

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Yeah.

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In fact, what the episode does, which I think is just delightful

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is a fairly boring opening scene where Bilana and Harry are on

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board the Delta Flyer and they're in trouble and they're going to

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crash. can just see it for real.

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You can absolutely see how it would work, but it's being played

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out on this stage by this group of back.

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She's got a mask up and she goes, no, Harry.

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I won't leave you to die.

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You know, in reality, it would be Roxanne Dawson going, come on

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Harry, we're going to get out of this.

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No, I like I actually reckon that that dialogue would have

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absolutely been what we would have had to put up with in the

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actual Voyager episode.

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And so that stuff is kind of fun.

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But then I think we land in a place which is about what Star

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Trek's for.

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And, you know, in ancient Greece, I can think of a few examples of

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comedies in particular, that are making political points that are

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making contemporary political points and even points about war and

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peace.

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There's a play by Aristophanes called Peace.

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And so here we have this play about Voyager being used to stop a

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war and by doing that, we restate what Star Trek is for, that Star

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Trek isn't for romance.

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It isn't for cheap tropes.

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It has a deeper purpose, and it often doesn't get there, but it's

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the thing that I love about Star Trek, and that's the idea.

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Space it strong enough in this episode, though.

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Yeah, I think it, I really think it is because I think that Callis

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who is our poet, absolutely is determined to put a stop to a war

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through drama.

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He wants to create a play that stops a war.

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And the play that he creates is a Voyager episode, but it's a

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Voyager episode where 2 enemies, the Queen of the Borg and Janeway

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have a speech.

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They just speech at each other about how useless fighting is and

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then they kind of make up.

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And then we have the sort of hilarious ending as well.

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And that's being done in front of someone who's contemplating

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going to war and decides not to.

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And that's kind of what Star Trek is for, I think.

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Is Kelly's Jean Robinbury then?

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No, because he's pretty and not sleazy, I think.

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But within this analogy of creating something that is supposed to

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have an impact.

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Kind of, but I also think that, you know, that it's reasonable for

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all of the creative people who work together on Star Trek on

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riding Star Trek.

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You know, Roddenbury's one person, but dozens and 100s of people

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have worked on Star Trek throughout the years.

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And so I don't think careless is Roddenbury as such, but it is, he

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grasps what Star Trek can do after a few sort of comedy false

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starts as well.

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What I took away from this as well is this is another episode of

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Voyager, which is offering an alternative take on Voyager

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characters, which we do maybe once a year on Voyager.

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It happens in that wonderful episode Living Witness, where they're

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all seen as evil do-gooders going around the galaxy.

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We get an alternative timeline in Year of Hell.

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We get one in time and timeless as well and things like that.

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Every time Voyager does this, you know, we see a peak of how these

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might be, because I'll tell you what, the twist reveal that 79 is

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in fact, the queen of the Borg, Arthur was fabulous.

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Pretty great.

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It is really good.

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You know, why is all these alternative versions more exciting than

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the show we watch week in week out?

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Like, what's happening here?

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Why are you constantly allowing us to look at a version of Voyager

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that is more engaging to experience?

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Yeah.

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Well, even within this episode, I think the scenes on board

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Voyager are generally boring and disposable.

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So dull.

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And some of them seem to be there just to ensure that like Ethan

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Phillips gets his paycheque this week.

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I can't see what most of those are for except to just get our

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leads some screen time.

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How can we possibly get a joke out of this?

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I know, Chevac falls asleep on the bridge.

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I did actually think that was a bit funny.

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Oh, great, you did.

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The worst thing was right, is we were seeing, you know, these

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wonderful scenes playing out on the stage.

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And then we cut straight to Voyager and it's Robert Duncan McNeil

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going, I can't believe we're giving up the search captain.

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I was like, oh, God.

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Yeah, he can't even just remind me.

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It reminds me bad.

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This is the shit we normally have to put up with on this show, you

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know?

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, but all the stuff down on the planet and all of the stuff

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with Balana, because of course Roxanne is really great and

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reliably great, is really good.

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Like I said to you last week, they finally remembered.

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They have a secret weapon in the cast, which is not Sam Dawson, who

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they've effectively ignored for 2 years while 7 of lines, you know

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had the limelight on her, and she got Barge of the Dead at the

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beginning of the season and news at the end of the season.

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And I know we had some issues with lineage in series 7, but they

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it wasn't Roxanne Dawson's fault.

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No, not at all. acquitted herself brilliantly.

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And it's it's them remembering.

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Oh, yeah, remember that sort of cast of women that we had?

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there's a 3rd one in there as well. she's pretty great.

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And her relationship with, is it Kelly?

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Kelly?

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Kellis, yeah.

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Kellis.

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Oh, Kelly was from the siege of AR 548, wasn't he?

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It's a K name.

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It's a space name.

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It's really sweet.

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I was properly invested in that relationship.

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Yeah.

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So I just wanted to say one thing before we go in.

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But Kelly Waymeyer, who plays Kellis's girlfriend. was great as

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well.

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Yeah, so we've actually talked about her on the entitled Star Trek

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project before, because she is in the episode, the Enterprise

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episode Strange New World, where she plays Cutler, and she looks

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like she's going to be a semi-regular, and she goes down to the

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planet as part of the away team, and she's quite good.

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She gets a scene on board the ship looking out the windows at the

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new planet that they're going to explore.

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Is she the one that's trying to impress Tapol?

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Yes, that's right.

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That's right.

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But that actress died very soon afterwards, so died terribly young

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and so the character never went beyond the one episode.

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And I just sort of thought, you know, she's really great in this

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and I thought it was worth mentioning.

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I thought the fact that she has to play sort of the jealous, the

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jealous non-girlfriend, isn't it?

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She's got this, in her ed, she's got a relationship with the poet

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but I don't think it's actually happening.

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The 2nd Belana Torres turns up.

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She, you know, she exits stage left with a harumph, but I did love

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the scene where she came and found Torres.

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And she was like, I was expecting to find a love nest.

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And she goes, what a nest it is.

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She, she, she didn't, she had no more than about 10 or 15 lines, I

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think, but she acquitted herself really well.

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Yeah, yeah, I agree.

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All right.

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What do you think?

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Should we go in?

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Yes, I mean, we're talking positively about Voyager after talking

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positively about Enterprise.

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We on a railway.

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Yeah, I know. crazy.

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All right, I'll count it in.

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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

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Here we go.

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Yeah, so this is absolutely the opening scene that we would have

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had in a normal episode.

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So this speech from the chorus, so we have a chorus of 3 actors, is

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delivering Captain Janeway's voiceover over the kind of model shot

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of the Delta Flyer going through space.

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In search of dilithium.

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So one of the things that I actually quite like too, is something

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that's more of a feature of Epic, more of a feature of the Iliad

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and the Odyssey, which is that all of the characters have very

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formulaic names, like ways of describing them.

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So he's young, Harry Kim, and she is headstrong Balana Taurus, and

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sometimes she's half Klingon, half human Balana Taurus.

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Look at her mask.

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So this is Kelly Waymire playing Belana, is it, in this scene?

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That's right.

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And the mask has the forehead ridges that that she has later when

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we see a 7 mask, it will have her implant.

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You know, the masks are really great. is extraordinary.

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We are just on the stock colony set number 52 here.

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But I do think it's extremely well lit this.

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It's very pleasing on the eye, all of these scenes.

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I agree.

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And it does...

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I think it gets an Emmy nomination for costumes and you can kind

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of see why all of them are really great.

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Those aliens, you know, they look very like the aliens from

248
00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:56.820
warlord with those weird sort of nose ridges.

249
00:12:56.940 --> 00:13:00.179
I think we might be reusing old makeups here.

250
00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:04.259
I wonder whether it might have been better to just do without

251
00:13:04.259 --> 00:13:04.620
that.

252
00:13:04.679 --> 00:13:08.759
I know it's a Star Trek thing and we have to have it, but I think

253
00:13:08.759 --> 00:13:09.779
it is a bit of a shame.

254
00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:13.019
It's not too intrusive, but, you know, like whatever.

255
00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:16.679
I want to see more of these Voyager Eternals, Nathan.

256
00:13:16.740 --> 00:13:17.580
Yeah.

257
00:13:17.639 --> 00:13:22.320
So he's a bit of a Voyager fan and we know that we, it's one week

258
00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:23.279
till the next episode.

259
00:13:23.340 --> 00:13:27.299
Like he says, no, there's going to be a new episode in one week.

260
00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:29.100
You don't get 2 weeks or 3 weeks.

261
00:13:29.820 --> 00:13:32.039
The story will continue.

262
00:13:32.159 --> 00:13:35.879
It would have been more savage if it'd have gone, oh, this is all

263
00:13:35.879 --> 00:13:36.960
a bit boring, isn't it?

264
00:13:37.019 --> 00:13:38.279
Can't you spice it up a bit?

265
00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:42.000
This techno bubble is interminable.

266
00:13:42.419 --> 00:13:46.500
And that thing too, where he says, have you noticed how thin I

267
00:13:46.500 --> 00:13:50.639
perform, my performers are getting, and then gets, because there

268
00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:56.580
is a thing about money, like having to create this stuff for

269
00:13:56.580 --> 00:13:57.179
money?

270
00:13:57.240 --> 00:14:01.919
Um, and there's a great line from careless a bit later on.

271
00:14:01.980 --> 00:14:06.480
And then, of course, we have the war and the war is being, uh, see

272
00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:07.080
look, look.

273
00:14:07.139 --> 00:14:08.700
See, they're gonna fuck.

274
00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:11.580
And she, he says, no, no, I have to go and write my play, and then

275
00:14:11.580 --> 00:14:14.580
he sneaks off to where B'Elana is in the Delta flyer.

276
00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:16.379
So I don't think that it is.

277
00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:19.080
She's just his pretend girlfriend.

278
00:14:19.139 --> 00:14:21.659
I think that she has a right to be jealous, I think.

279
00:14:21.720 --> 00:14:25.259
But the thing, not Eileen just too earlier, that they didn't do in

280
00:14:25.259 --> 00:14:30.960
this, and that was to have a romance between Torres and Kellis

281
00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:31.919
which they could have done.

282
00:14:31.980 --> 00:14:33.360
Yeah, that would have been.

283
00:14:33.419 --> 00:14:36.779
But the episode itself rules that out says that's a dumb idea.

284
00:14:36.840 --> 00:14:40.799
I love this too, because I had seen this before and I had really

285
00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:44.220
strong memories of it, but I didn't quite know how it worked.

286
00:14:44.279 --> 00:14:51.179
And so how is after she's written, sorry, after he's written that

287
00:14:51.179 --> 00:14:54.840
scene, how come she doesn't know who he is?

288
00:14:54.899 --> 00:14:58.080
It's a very strange thing and the episode sells it.

289
00:14:58.139 --> 00:15:02.820
Um, because he's been listening to the, you know, he's he's heard

290
00:15:02.820 --> 00:15:05.700
all of the recordings and stuff of their interactions and that

291
00:15:05.700 --> 00:15:06.539
works really well.

292
00:15:06.600 --> 00:15:10.740
But I think that's a really strong lead into the opening credits

293
00:15:10.740 --> 00:15:12.720
the kind of that self-conflict.

294
00:15:12.779 --> 00:15:14.340
He's got her tied up.

295
00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:17.279
What sort of episode is this going to be?

296
00:15:17.340 --> 00:15:20.340
And I think it misleads us a little bit.

297
00:15:20.580 --> 00:15:23.279
Oh, your face lit up, used to that.

298
00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:24.059
That's a word for that.

299
00:15:25.860 --> 00:15:29.580
I almost could have done with knock, I'm at Voyager, at all in

300
00:15:29.580 --> 00:15:29.700
this.

301
00:15:30.179 --> 00:15:33.360
Yep, set it down on a planet amongst these people.

302
00:15:33.419 --> 00:15:37.799
I was very impressed by there, by that tilted angle shot as he

303
00:15:37.799 --> 00:15:41.580
came into the shuttlecraft to suggest that the whole thing's on a

304
00:15:41.580 --> 00:15:42.899
on a, on the walk.

305
00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:46.259
But I mean, the great thing about it too is like that set is full

306
00:15:46.259 --> 00:15:46.980
of candles.

307
00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:51.419
Like it's beautiful. doesn't it look more atmospheric than usual.

308
00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:55.139
It's very, like, so it's properly, properly crashed and...

309
00:15:55.139 --> 00:15:57.419
We've said this a couple of times recently where they've had

310
00:15:57.419 --> 00:15:58.320
candles in sets.

311
00:15:58.379 --> 00:15:58.919
Yeah.

312
00:15:58.919 --> 00:16:01.919
And we're like, why don't we, why are we always doing this?

313
00:16:01.980 --> 00:16:04.620
Yeah, why don't we light the shuttles with candles normally?

314
00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:07.320
Then it's the same thing you say about when they've got practical

315
00:16:07.320 --> 00:16:08.519
lightning coming in through the windows.

316
00:16:08.580 --> 00:16:09.059
Yeah.

317
00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:10.679
It's like, that's so effective.

318
00:16:10.740 --> 00:16:12.240
Why don't we do that every week?

319
00:16:12.299 --> 00:16:14.399
Yeah, well, I think that looked great.

320
00:16:14.460 --> 00:16:17.460
But it also, it sells the passage of time.

321
00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:19.740
You know, she's been there for a while.

322
00:16:19.799 --> 00:16:22.259
He's been coming there and bringing candles.

323
00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:27.840
You know, like he has clearly been in and out of the place for a

324
00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:28.200
while.

325
00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:31.379
And so that's why it's a little bit surprising that she doesn't

326
00:16:31.379 --> 00:16:34.919
know who he is, that Bellana's sort of shocked to see him.

327
00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:39.960
He's there listening to all the logs going, how on earth can I

328
00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:41.519
turn all of this into a play?

329
00:16:41.580 --> 00:16:44.700
But I mean, you know, like the Voyager Riders do it every week.

330
00:16:45.179 --> 00:16:46.799
Just about.

331
00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:50.820
I don't know if you recall, we did the Borg children episode from

332
00:16:50.820 --> 00:16:51.299
this episode.

333
00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:52.799
Sometimes they fail miserably.

334
00:16:53.700 --> 00:16:58.919
So, like this guy is called Joseph Will.

335
00:16:58.980 --> 00:17:02.460
I think he is absolutely stunning.

336
00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:05.700
Like, he's a good looking man.

337
00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:09.240
He's a pretty young man, but he's very sweet.

338
00:17:09.299 --> 00:17:10.740
Like, he's really sweet.

339
00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:14.460
I could have really taken my eyes off him for out the entire

340
00:17:14.460 --> 00:17:14.940
episode.

341
00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:21.299
He says, uh, he's interviewed um, as saying that these were like

342
00:17:21.299 --> 00:17:24.779
this was an unusually long days shooting.

343
00:17:24.839 --> 00:17:27.779
So they were doing sort of 15, 16 nowadays, which he wasn't used

344
00:17:27.779 --> 00:17:29.640
to it at that point in his career.

345
00:17:29.700 --> 00:17:32.400
I don't think any other show was working like Star Trek at this

346
00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:36.180
point where you basically work 24 hours a day and working

347
00:17:36.180 --> 00:17:40.140
alongside Roxanne Dawson, who was very charitable and very kind to

348
00:17:40.140 --> 00:17:40.380
him.

349
00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:43.980
And basically she made the entire experience of shooting this

350
00:17:43.980 --> 00:17:44.579
episode tolerable.

351
00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:46.859
Because they had so much time together.

352
00:17:46.920 --> 00:17:47.819
Yeah, yeah.

353
00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:51.660
But look, you know, look, we've talked about one episode

354
00:17:51.660 --> 00:17:54.599
relationships between people before and how they could bomb

355
00:17:54.599 --> 00:17:55.680
spectacularly.

356
00:17:55.740 --> 00:17:57.599
This is how you do it.

357
00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:00.599
This is really good, isn't it?

358
00:18:00.660 --> 00:18:01.559
This is so great.

359
00:18:01.619 --> 00:18:06.900
So he's been, he's been bleeding her because she's had a fever, and

360
00:18:06.900 --> 00:18:08.819
so that's why she has cuts on her arm.

361
00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:12.240
So it all looked a little bit worse than it actually turns out to

362
00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:12.599
be.

363
00:18:12.660 --> 00:18:19.259
And now, of course, she gets to show him her powers is an eternal

364
00:18:19.259 --> 00:18:20.519
which is really great.

365
00:18:22.140 --> 00:18:27.480
I like the, I like how they sort of don't trust each other

366
00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:28.619
initially.

367
00:18:28.619 --> 00:18:32.759
And he obviously wants something from her.

368
00:18:32.819 --> 00:18:35.579
Yeah, I sent you the line, didn't I?

369
00:18:35.640 --> 00:18:37.980
Where she goes, oh, I'm going to have to sing for my supper, aren't

370
00:18:37.980 --> 00:18:38.160
I?

371
00:18:38.220 --> 00:18:40.200
And he goes, well, don't we all?

372
00:18:40.259 --> 00:18:42.359
I thought that was the line that was really...

373
00:18:42.359 --> 00:18:45.480
There's a bit of back and forth between the 2 of them where I was

374
00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:49.200
like, they're not just like, okay, fine, you're injured in this

375
00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:49.920
shuttlecraft.

376
00:18:49.980 --> 00:18:50.700
Let's be mates.

377
00:18:50.759 --> 00:18:53.819
It takes a little while to ease into them being comfortable with

378
00:18:53.819 --> 00:18:54.119
each other.

379
00:18:54.180 --> 00:18:56.880
I mean, the thing that's brilliant about the thing for our supper

380
00:18:56.880 --> 00:18:59.880
line is that it's being written by someone who has to do that as

381
00:18:59.880 --> 00:19:06.720
well, that everyone in, you know, in a creative field has to sing

382
00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:07.619
for their supper.

383
00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:10.799
Do you know what I was getting strong vibes from him?

384
00:19:10.859 --> 00:19:12.960
It was fines from Shakespeare in love.

385
00:19:13.019 --> 00:19:18.180
That same sort of that same sort of doe-eyed creative who's being

386
00:19:18.180 --> 00:19:20.579
inspired in unusual directions.

387
00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:21.720
I was getting that from him.

388
00:19:21.779 --> 00:19:23.700
One of the things that I like it.

389
00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:26.759
Uh, you know, I started talking a little bit about the stereotype

390
00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:29.460
to adjectives that get used to describe the characters.

391
00:19:29.460 --> 00:19:33.480
I do think that repeated thing about Shining Voyage are far from

392
00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:36.539
home... from the gleaming cities of Earth.

393
00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:38.099
Like, I think that's lovely.

394
00:19:38.220 --> 00:19:41.519
Like, I don't think it's like great poetry or anything like that

395
00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:44.220
but there's something very sweet about that.

396
00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:49.140
And then they turn it at the end, in a way that I think is really

397
00:19:49.140 --> 00:19:52.859
clever and what the episode's about.

398
00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:54.960
You will never reach the gleaming city.

399
00:19:55.019 --> 00:19:56.519
No, say 7 of nine.

400
00:19:56.579 --> 00:20:03.839
No, the very last scene, the very last line that Keller says, I

401
00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:04.799
think is really beautiful.

402
00:20:04.859 --> 00:20:06.900
I do love the poll.

403
00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:09.539
The away...

404
00:20:09.539 --> 00:20:10.500
That's the name of the play.

405
00:20:13.619 --> 00:20:14.759
What are you talking about?

406
00:20:14.819 --> 00:20:16.680
That's the subtitle for most episodes.

407
00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:24.539
I love how quickly he agrees as well.

408
00:20:24.599 --> 00:20:28.440
Like he says why he's tied her up, that he needs to make sure she

409
00:20:28.440 --> 00:20:31.259
doesn't go away because she's an eternal and he needs more

410
00:20:31.259 --> 00:20:33.839
information from her.

411
00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:39.599
And he, it's, it's very quick, isn't it?

412
00:20:39.660 --> 00:20:42.059
Like, he does it quite soon, and he doesn't do it in response to

413
00:20:42.059 --> 00:20:42.900
any sort of threat.

414
00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:45.960
He kind of does it because he realises it's a bit of a deep move

415
00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:47.519
you know, to tie her up.

416
00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:50.940
I know the confidence in this before.

417
00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:51.960
Yeah, yeah.

418
00:20:52.019 --> 00:20:56.279
There's just no sort of TV actor of the week coming into a show

419
00:20:56.279 --> 00:20:58.440
with regulars about him at all.

420
00:20:58.500 --> 00:20:59.940
This is my show this week.

421
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:01.859
This is my planet, you know?

422
00:21:01.859 --> 00:21:05.039
This, look at this.

423
00:21:05.099 --> 00:21:08.279
And he just does it immediately. cut me free and I'll tell you.

424
00:21:08.339 --> 00:21:08.880
Okay?

425
00:21:08.940 --> 00:21:15.000
You know, like, yes, yes, yeah. and and you won't leave me and she

426
00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:16.319
doesn't give him any reassurance.

427
00:21:16.380 --> 00:21:18.779
She just says cut me free and he does it anyway.

428
00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:19.799
I think that's really nice.

429
00:21:19.859 --> 00:21:24.299
That interaction is not at all what you would necessarily expect.

430
00:21:26.099 --> 00:21:30.000
Lest we not forget that this is one of the oldest tropes in the

431
00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:32.759
book, the crash shuttlecraft on the planet.

432
00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:34.140
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

433
00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:38.819
He's a little bit scared of her there as well. backed away a bit

434
00:21:38.819 --> 00:21:39.059
you know?

435
00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:44.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but not not enough that he doesn't come back and

436
00:21:44.460 --> 00:21:45.180
doesn't try.

437
00:21:45.299 --> 00:21:46.859
I mean, it's Roxanne Dawson.

438
00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:49.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

439
00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:49.559
Yeah.

440
00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:51.660
Oh, here we go.

441
00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:52.799
We're in a forest glade.

442
00:21:52.859 --> 00:21:54.420
That's where the shuttlecrafts land.

443
00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:56.460
It's not at all a painted backdrop.

444
00:21:56.519 --> 00:21:59.279
Well, I think that painted backdrop looks pretty great.

445
00:21:59.339 --> 00:22:03.720
And again, we have pretty good lighting in through the windows as

446
00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:07.200
well, and you can see the trees through the windows.

447
00:22:07.259 --> 00:22:08.759
It's got a bit of perspective.

448
00:22:08.819 --> 00:22:09.359
Exactly right.

449
00:22:09.420 --> 00:22:12.539
It doesn't look at all like the Delta Flyer set does normally, and

450
00:22:12.539 --> 00:22:15.779
partly because it does seem to be on an angle, but also because

451
00:22:15.779 --> 00:22:17.279
the lighting is different.

452
00:22:17.339 --> 00:22:20.220
And look, turn the fucking lights down here.

453
00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:23.400
Oh, he said we have to support each other.

454
00:22:23.460 --> 00:22:25.019
We poets.

455
00:22:25.140 --> 00:22:28.500
And then she says, I'm an engineer. of that is so nice.

456
00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:36.299
I fix things from the looks of it, it looks like you're not doing

457
00:22:36.299 --> 00:22:36.839
so well.

458
00:22:36.900 --> 00:22:39.960
And then she says, are you a poet or a critic?

459
00:22:40.019 --> 00:22:42.539
It's, that's, that's cute.

460
00:22:42.599 --> 00:22:44.940
Can I ask you a question?

461
00:22:44.940 --> 00:22:47.640
Because this relationship is absolutely delightful to watch.

462
00:22:48.059 --> 00:22:51.779
So why are the relationships between the Voyager crew?

463
00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:53.039
Not this delightful to watch.

464
00:22:53.099 --> 00:22:59.819
Well, I think part of the that bantry stuff is just colour and

465
00:22:59.819 --> 00:23:02.460
passing the time and isn't doing anything.

466
00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:04.259
So none of that dialogue is doing anything.

467
00:23:04.319 --> 00:23:08.700
And there's a little bit too much date rape, you know, not date

468
00:23:08.700 --> 00:23:13.140
rape, but like the delaying stuff just makes me cringe every time

469
00:23:13.140 --> 00:23:14.519
I hear it. so gross.

470
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:17.819
No, I don't think they haven't forgotten about the Delaney sisters

471
00:23:17.819 --> 00:23:18.299
come over.

472
00:23:18.359 --> 00:23:19.200
No, they're going to mention here.

473
00:23:19.259 --> 00:23:20.640
They get a mention in this episode.

474
00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:25.920
She goes, the caretaker, an eternal.

475
00:23:25.980 --> 00:23:27.900
Yeah But it is an eternal.

476
00:23:27.960 --> 00:23:32.099
Like even from that point of view, the caretaker's an eternal.

477
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:35.819
And she starts to find a way of speaking to him about her

478
00:23:35.819 --> 00:23:37.859
adventures that he can understand.

479
00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:40.200
Are you in love with Tom Paris?

480
00:23:40.740 --> 00:23:43.079
She shuts it down immediately.

481
00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:48.539
In fact, the more they talk about the caretaker, the episode.

482
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:50.700
I think, yeah, actually, that would make a brilliant stage play

483
00:23:50.700 --> 00:23:51.960
you know, some big ideas there.

484
00:23:52.019 --> 00:23:52.559
Yeah.

485
00:23:53.579 --> 00:23:55.440
Oh, where are we?

486
00:23:55.500 --> 00:23:56.400
Are we going into the back?

487
00:23:56.460 --> 00:23:57.839
Are we going into the back with candles?

488
00:23:57.900 --> 00:23:59.819
It's so...

489
00:23:59.880 --> 00:24:00.359
Yeah.

490
00:24:01.079 --> 00:24:04.619
Whoever knew, just turning the fucking lights down could make

491
00:24:04.619 --> 00:24:05.640
these sets atmospheric.

492
00:24:05.700 --> 00:24:06.420
Yes, exactly.

493
00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:10.319
And even this stuff is quite good.

494
00:24:10.380 --> 00:24:13.799
Like, I love the details of how she's trying to go to go about

495
00:24:13.799 --> 00:24:15.420
fixing it and stuff.

496
00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:21.539
She has definitely got that that Lee Arburton engineer ability.

497
00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:22.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

498
00:24:22.619 --> 00:24:26.700
Just make look play with the technology and saying those dreadful

499
00:24:26.700 --> 00:24:27.059
lines.

500
00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:30.900
Oh, so she's trying to get him to get some dilithium, which was

501
00:24:30.900 --> 00:24:31.799
why we were here.

502
00:24:31.859 --> 00:24:34.799
And it's called, what's it called?

503
00:24:34.859 --> 00:24:35.460
Something.

504
00:24:36.420 --> 00:24:39.059
Oh, something tears.

505
00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:40.680
I can't remember.

506
00:24:40.740 --> 00:24:44.819
But, uh, I just missed that bit of dialogue, but uh, he knows

507
00:24:44.819 --> 00:24:46.079
about dilithium.

508
00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:51.539
And again, here too, where she doesn't kind of take any shit and

509
00:24:51.539 --> 00:24:56.700
just says, you're going to go and get the dilithium for me, you

510
00:24:56.700 --> 00:24:59.400
know, whether you want to or not.

511
00:24:59.460 --> 00:25:02.339
And he's reluctant, but she doesn't sort of take any of it.

512
00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:04.500
But all of this stuff.

513
00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:09.240
This conversation is super important, exposition, without really

514
00:25:09.240 --> 00:25:10.319
sounding like it.

515
00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:16.200
He thinks that if the fella captures B'Elana, then he'll utilise

516
00:25:16.200 --> 00:25:17.400
her to fight.

517
00:25:17.460 --> 00:25:20.279
So now we find out about... exactly the reverse of what he's

518
00:25:20.279 --> 00:25:21.000
trying to do with the play.

519
00:25:21.059 --> 00:25:21.900
Yeah, that's right.

520
00:25:21.960 --> 00:25:23.039
We'll find out about wars.

521
00:25:23.099 --> 00:25:28.619
We find out about what the autarch or the, you know, that guy, the

522
00:25:28.619 --> 00:25:31.619
patron, we find out about him as well.

523
00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:34.380
And it's done fairly economically in a scene that's not boring.

524
00:25:34.380 --> 00:25:36.539
And the scene's not boring because you've got 2 really good

525
00:25:36.539 --> 00:25:37.079
actors.

526
00:25:37.140 --> 00:25:40.200
All of whom are doing things with the dialogue.

527
00:25:40.259 --> 00:25:43.380
Look at his reaction. lest we not forget.

528
00:25:43.500 --> 00:25:44.940
Why am I saying lest we not forget?

529
00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:46.559
Is it because we're in a theatric?

530
00:25:46.680 --> 00:25:51.599
That we have heard many a backstory and exposition in Star Trek.

531
00:25:51.660 --> 00:25:53.099
Yeah, that's been hell.

532
00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:54.000
Look at this too.

533
00:25:54.059 --> 00:25:54.599
It's raining?

534
00:25:54.660 --> 00:25:55.500
It raining outside?

535
00:25:55.559 --> 00:25:57.420
I love the lighting here.

536
00:25:57.480 --> 00:25:59.460
Yeah, there's also the pattern on her face.

537
00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:01.079
Yeah, because the water's coming.

538
00:26:01.140 --> 00:26:02.700
He's wet, yeah.

539
00:26:02.759 --> 00:26:06.299
So I didn't think he could possibly look any sexy, but here we

540
00:26:06.299 --> 00:26:06.480
are.

541
00:26:09.539 --> 00:26:10.980
Look at her.

542
00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:12.299
Look how excited she is.

543
00:26:12.359 --> 00:26:12.960
It's beautiful.

544
00:26:13.019 --> 00:26:14.880
I mean, she is so terrific.

545
00:26:14.940 --> 00:26:15.660
How...

546
00:26:15.660 --> 00:26:20.700
The worst thing about Voyager is the incredible cast that they

547
00:26:20.700 --> 00:26:23.579
assemble and then waste, you know, it's so bad.

548
00:26:25.859 --> 00:26:27.839
Or you couldn't be.

549
00:26:27.900 --> 00:26:30.779
I mean, and, you know, they do spotlight a couple of them a lot

550
00:26:30.779 --> 00:26:32.400
but...

551
00:26:32.460 --> 00:26:35.400
Oh, here we go. with the worst Robert and the best, Robert.

552
00:26:35.460 --> 00:26:41.099
And we are in a terrible scene that clearly exists just because

553
00:26:41.099 --> 00:26:45.059
everyone contractually has to appear in every episode.

554
00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:46.859
This scene is super boring.

555
00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:49.920
The media rubber is present as well.

556
00:26:49.980 --> 00:26:51.359
Yeah, yeah, but he just gets a single line.

557
00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:53.700
Yeah, it's really boring.

558
00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:55.440
You talk about wasting characters.

559
00:26:55.500 --> 00:26:56.940
Kate Mul bruising the scene.

560
00:26:57.000 --> 00:26:58.380
How could you not give us a fabric?

561
00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:01.799
But look, the worst Robert can't even stand convincingly.

562
00:27:01.859 --> 00:27:02.700
Look at him there.

563
00:27:02.759 --> 00:27:08.640
Like, it's like, it's just standing, Bob, just learn how to do it

564
00:27:08.700 --> 00:27:09.660
so bad.

565
00:27:09.720 --> 00:27:11.400
After all that amazing lighting.

566
00:27:11.460 --> 00:27:13.920
We're adding the Delta Flyer, a minute. back on those boring

567
00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:14.519
voyages.

568
00:27:14.579 --> 00:27:17.279
You know, they've always done the, you know, the colony set, like

569
00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:21.539
the lighting, you know, that sunny lighting they've been able to

570
00:27:21.539 --> 00:27:25.259
do since kind of late next gen, I think is pretty good.

571
00:27:25.319 --> 00:27:26.519
Oh my god.

572
00:27:26.579 --> 00:27:30.420
They're doing the sequence between 7 and Harry Kim in revulsion in

573
00:27:30.420 --> 00:27:31.019
series 4.

574
00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:34.680
And he's going, get closer to him, all right?

575
00:27:34.740 --> 00:27:35.819
Get closer to him.

576
00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:40.140
So this is what I really like as well, because this is a

577
00:27:40.140 --> 00:27:43.859
commentary on the kind of characters that we have. on Voyager.

578
00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:48.420
So on next gen and original trek.

579
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:53.519
There were one or 2 aliens among the regular cast, but basically

580
00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:54.720
most people are human.

581
00:27:54.839 --> 00:27:58.500
Here, Voyager has gone quite a long way away from that.

582
00:27:58.559 --> 00:28:01.980
And we have quite a few alien characters.

583
00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:06.480
And so we get this scene here about how the actor, so about how

584
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:14.039
Kelly Waymeyer's character can't really understand how 7 of 9

585
00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:18.299
behaves and so can't convey that convincingly.

586
00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:23.160
And then you actually get that the boy, the younger man as well

587
00:28:23.160 --> 00:28:26.220
who complains about having to play Tuvok?

588
00:28:26.279 --> 00:28:28.319
That's the better scene of the two.

589
00:28:28.380 --> 00:28:30.900
Yeah, where he's going, who doesn't have emotions?

590
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:32.279
That doesn't make any sense.

591
00:28:32.339 --> 00:28:33.960
They're all going to think I'm a terrible actor.

592
00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:35.819
Because they're not cheap anyway.

593
00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:37.140
It's really good, isn't it?

594
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:38.759
And but what it does.

595
00:28:38.819 --> 00:28:42.420
Is it actually finds the truth of those?

596
00:28:42.420 --> 00:28:48.420
Because all of those dumb space things are just an analogy for

597
00:28:48.420 --> 00:28:49.980
people that we know.

598
00:28:50.039 --> 00:28:54.059
And, you know, she's able to explain the Borg in terms of just

599
00:28:54.059 --> 00:28:59.279
people in in ships, you know, she's able to explain me easily

600
00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:00.420
comprehensible ways.

601
00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:05.460
And I think what they say about Tuvok is incredible and we'll get

602
00:29:05.460 --> 00:29:05.640
there.

603
00:29:05.759 --> 00:29:11.279
But as well, I think it's also a comment on just how good Jerry

604
00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:14.519
Ryan and Tim Russ are, because they're saddled with these

605
00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:18.779
emotionless characters, and they toy with my emotions.

606
00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:23.160
This show at his best is those 2 characters that they really get

607
00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:23.640
under my skin.

608
00:29:23.940 --> 00:29:28.920
What they managed to do with a lack of emotion is extraordinary.

609
00:29:28.980 --> 00:29:31.079
So I like this too.

610
00:29:31.140 --> 00:29:36.539
Like, she thought that it was solved if he got her the dilithium.

611
00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:37.980
That hasn't worked.

612
00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:39.539
Now we have to do the next thing.

613
00:29:39.599 --> 00:29:43.319
And the next thing is a pretty remarkably complicated thing.

614
00:29:43.380 --> 00:29:49.500
It's like bronze of a particular alloy with gold on one side.

615
00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:52.799
Um, I can't get hold of Goldie says.

616
00:29:52.859 --> 00:29:54.779
Well, she goes, you're going into debt then, aren't you?

617
00:29:54.839 --> 00:29:55.859
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

618
00:29:55.920 --> 00:29:57.059
Like, she doesn't take any shit.

619
00:29:57.119 --> 00:30:01.799
So again, this is another scene that I think is a complete waste.

620
00:30:01.859 --> 00:30:04.680
Like, what, the Neelix 2 volt one.

621
00:30:04.740 --> 00:30:05.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

622
00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:08.759
I agree.

623
00:30:08.819 --> 00:30:09.900
It's kind of pointless.

624
00:30:09.960 --> 00:30:12.539
It's just showing that they're still looking for them.

625
00:30:12.599 --> 00:30:12.900
That it.

626
00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:15.960
But I do like the chemistry between these 2 action.

627
00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:16.859
Oh, no, I do too.

628
00:30:16.920 --> 00:30:17.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

629
00:30:17.700 --> 00:30:20.880
And I think, you know, again, because people hate Neelix, they

630
00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:25.380
really, really underestimate Ethan Phillips, who is brilliant.

631
00:30:25.380 --> 00:30:27.900
And Tim Ross is great too.

632
00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:32.039
In the late seasons, they've veered away from that sort of sitcom

633
00:30:32.039 --> 00:30:35.039
conflict that they had in the early seasons.

634
00:30:35.339 --> 00:30:39.960
Nedix was just pushing too much to a point where now they just

635
00:30:39.960 --> 00:30:42.180
have a mutual respect for each other and it's all quite

636
00:30:42.180 --> 00:30:44.400
underplayed. and that's really nice to watch.

637
00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:48.119
You see, I think the problem here is that they leave something on

638
00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:51.779
the table, and they're nearly there, but they don't quite get it

639
00:30:51.779 --> 00:30:56.220
because why is 2 Vox staying up all night?

640
00:30:56.640 --> 00:30:59.400
We've been up for sleeping for days.

641
00:30:59.460 --> 00:31:03.539
Why is he not sleeping for days because... not logical, Nathan.

642
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:04.319
Yeah.

643
00:31:04.380 --> 00:31:08.400
And and we get so we get this scene.

644
00:31:08.460 --> 00:31:14.400
Is this the scene where he's, there's Tuvok.

645
00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:15.779
Yeah, we're doing the same thing.

646
00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:20.880
Yeah, here's Tuvok now, thinking about Harry Kim being missing and

647
00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:25.500
showing no emotion, and we get, and we complained about this.

648
00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:31.079
I complained about this in, um, uh, resolutions?

649
00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:35.339
Yeah, in resolutions. where they're depicting Tuvokas having no

650
00:31:35.339 --> 00:31:39.660
emotions. depicting him as having no emotions, and he even says

651
00:31:39.660 --> 00:31:41.220
yeah, no, I can't fail, you know.

652
00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:43.920
And Kess says, think about the people who really feel this more

653
00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:45.180
strongly than you do.

654
00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:52.380
And like that boy can't believe, just can't believe that, that no

655
00:31:52.380 --> 00:31:54.059
one would have emotions in this thing.

656
00:31:55.019 --> 00:31:58.559
And he says, Kelly...

657
00:31:58.559 --> 00:32:03.359
I realise for me, if you're... breaking silently and in more pain

658
00:32:03.359 --> 00:32:05.519
than the rest of us can possibly understand.

659
00:32:05.579 --> 00:32:11.640
And that scene that we just saw with Ethan and Tim Ross could have

660
00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:13.559
done a better job of conveying that.

661
00:32:13.619 --> 00:32:17.160
Well, but the fact that one scene follows the other, you think

662
00:32:17.160 --> 00:32:18.180
that they would be doing this.

663
00:32:18.180 --> 00:32:22.079
In the script, it's clearly the intention of the script, but no

664
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:23.400
one quite gets there.

665
00:32:23.460 --> 00:32:30.539
Um, and, and, later on, when Tuvok discovers that they've been

666
00:32:30.539 --> 00:32:35.400
found, we don't quite get the emphasis on his emotional reaction

667
00:32:35.400 --> 00:32:36.599
to that on him.

668
00:32:36.660 --> 00:32:37.559
Oh, he's asleep.

669
00:32:37.619 --> 00:32:39.059
No, no, no, no, no.

670
00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:42.900
No, there is a scene here, but I mean, the reason he's asleep is

671
00:32:42.900 --> 00:32:45.839
because he cares about them and because, you know, Harry is a

672
00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:49.259
young man, just like the Tuvok that we saw down on the planet

673
00:32:49.259 --> 00:32:50.819
being acted was.

674
00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:53.819
And so I think that it leaves stuff on the table.

675
00:32:53.880 --> 00:32:57.900
The sad truth of it is the very poetic way he just described

676
00:32:57.900 --> 00:32:58.799
Tuvok.

677
00:32:58.859 --> 00:33:02.400
Yeah, is what we should be doing every time the show goes there

678
00:33:02.400 --> 00:33:04.079
and we very rarely do.

679
00:33:04.140 --> 00:33:06.000
Well, they'd forgotten it.

680
00:33:06.059 --> 00:33:09.180
They just didn't seem to know that that's what Vulcans were like

681
00:33:09.180 --> 00:33:13.619
in resolution and it wrecked that part of the story.

682
00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:16.559
Like it, it, you know, it wasted Tim Ross.

683
00:33:16.619 --> 00:33:17.039
It was bad.

684
00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:21.000
I felt like with the original series and Nemoy, that he was always

685
00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:23.940
sort of working on that level, the way he just described just that

686
00:33:23.940 --> 00:33:24.480
Kenneth.

687
00:33:24.539 --> 00:33:29.039
So this is careless now explaining his ambition for the play, and

688
00:33:29.039 --> 00:33:32.700
he thinks that the right sort of play could be written in such a

689
00:33:32.700 --> 00:33:34.079
way to stop a war.

690
00:33:34.140 --> 00:33:37.259
And she, she doesn't believe it.

691
00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:38.279
She says that, you know.

692
00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:40.259
It's not such a romantic idea, is it?

693
00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:42.539
I'm sure there is some Preston with that.

694
00:33:42.599 --> 00:33:45.000
Yeah, well, they've certainly been plays that have commented on

695
00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:48.480
wars and certainly throughout the history of literature.

696
00:33:48.539 --> 00:33:54.599
There have been plenty of of, of, you know, novels and plays and

697
00:33:54.599 --> 00:33:58.200
works of art that have talked about the horrors of war and have

698
00:33:58.200 --> 00:33:59.640
reminded us about them.

699
00:33:59.700 --> 00:34:03.839
Transmitting an idea of the right idea hits the right person

700
00:34:03.900 --> 00:34:05.279
making differences.

701
00:34:05.339 --> 00:34:09.719
But that's the moment where this very definitely becomes this is

702
00:34:09.719 --> 00:34:11.099
about Star Trek.

703
00:34:11.159 --> 00:34:16.260
So careless is creating a voyage or episode in order to stop a war

704
00:34:16.260 --> 00:34:24.119
in order to express the idea that, um, negotiation and cooperation

705
00:34:24.119 --> 00:34:27.059
and reaching out are possibilities.

706
00:34:28.679 --> 00:34:32.340
Sorry, I was very distracted by this palty face there.

707
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:34.619
It just saw B'lana.

708
00:34:34.679 --> 00:34:36.059
Yeah, poor Kelly.

709
00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:37.739
She's not happy at all.

710
00:34:38.579 --> 00:34:42.420
Yeah, and she's right, because, like, they were clearly, they do

711
00:34:42.420 --> 00:34:45.300
clearly have a relationship and he's been ignoring her because

712
00:34:45.300 --> 00:34:50.099
he's so obsessed with B'lana, and she assumes that it's a sexual

713
00:34:50.099 --> 00:34:54.239
relationship, but she is, of course, just his muse, you know

714
00:34:54.300 --> 00:34:58.139
firing his creative juices, not his sexual ones.

715
00:34:58.199 --> 00:34:58.920
Yeah, yeah.

716
00:34:58.980 --> 00:34:59.519
Yeah.

717
00:34:59.579 --> 00:35:01.800
And so I love this too.

718
00:35:01.860 --> 00:35:05.159
So where's the mistaken identity, the discovery, the reversals.

719
00:35:05.219 --> 00:35:06.300
Oh, yeah.

720
00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:12.059
So Aristotle, in the poetics, you know, invents a way of

721
00:35:12.059 --> 00:35:16.380
criticising, of being critical, not of saying they're bad, but of

722
00:35:16.380 --> 00:35:20.699
a critiquing works of literature and identifying tropes like those

723
00:35:20.699 --> 00:35:21.239
right?

724
00:35:21.300 --> 00:35:24.420
And so that's a Greek idea.

725
00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:30.960
And what I like a lot is this old man comes in and says, yes, the

726
00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:31.980
tropes, right?

727
00:35:32.039 --> 00:35:38.159
But that's lazy, you're lazily kind of, um, relying on those

728
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:40.679
tropes when what we want is the truth of the story.

729
00:35:40.739 --> 00:35:45.360
The story has to be about people and not just about plot twists

730
00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:46.139
essentially.

731
00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:51.960
How the fuck can they have the nerve in a Voyager episode to

732
00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:54.840
suggest that relying on tropes is lazy.

733
00:35:54.900 --> 00:35:55.739
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

734
00:35:55.739 --> 00:35:59.340
That's what this, that's this shows bloody raison, that's what

735
00:35:59.340 --> 00:35:59.579
they do.

736
00:35:59.639 --> 00:36:02.820
Well, I think this show, I think this episode does critique itself

737
00:36:02.820 --> 00:36:03.900
a bit too.

738
00:36:03.960 --> 00:36:06.960
Like, I do think it is critiquing itself.

739
00:36:07.019 --> 00:36:09.000
I was, I wrote you, no.

740
00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:10.559
I said, I was waiting for a reversal though.

741
00:36:10.619 --> 00:36:12.780
When they brought that up, I was waiting for a big character

742
00:36:12.780 --> 00:36:16.559
reversal, a big shock, and I suppose that happens within the play

743
00:36:16.559 --> 00:36:18.119
but it doesn't really happen within the episode.

744
00:36:18.179 --> 00:36:22.800
Well, I like, oh, so this is Chakotay and Janeway.

745
00:36:25.980 --> 00:36:30.599
And the camera just moves away just before acting, you know, like

746
00:36:30.599 --> 00:36:32.760
play the tour.

747
00:36:32.820 --> 00:36:33.179
There you go.

748
00:36:33.239 --> 00:36:34.320
There's that kiss you want to.

749
00:36:34.320 --> 00:36:35.699
That I want to.

750
00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:39.840
Exactly And this episode actually critiques that and says, you

751
00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:43.500
know, that's not really what we do on Star Trek necessarily, that's

752
00:36:43.500 --> 00:36:45.000
not what Star Trek's about.

753
00:36:45.059 --> 00:36:47.519
Precisely what we were critiquing here.

754
00:36:47.579 --> 00:36:48.179
Yeah, yeah.

755
00:36:48.179 --> 00:36:49.739
And then and then...

756
00:36:49.739 --> 00:36:52.139
And then we cut to a scene between Jane Wench.

757
00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:53.280
So they keep doing this, aren't they?

758
00:36:53.340 --> 00:36:55.260
What's on the stage and what's happening on Voyager.

759
00:36:55.320 --> 00:36:57.719
But what's happening on what's the gorge is boring.

760
00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:00.719
It's so much more boring than what's going on.

761
00:37:03.239 --> 00:37:07.079
Could we not have Kelly's just come on board the writing team for

762
00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:07.440
a bit?

763
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:11.639
There is one thing that I like a lot about this scene though

764
00:37:11.639 --> 00:37:12.599
is...

765
00:37:13.679 --> 00:37:19.380
He says, like, he says that they would have ejected 10 days ago

766
00:37:19.380 --> 00:37:24.780
and that Harry wouldn't have survived 10 days in an escape pod, and

767
00:37:24.780 --> 00:37:28.739
then you just get that look on Kate's face, that look of distress

768
00:37:28.739 --> 00:37:30.300
just for a moment.

769
00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:34.199
And she doesn't even tell him to keep searching or anything like

770
00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:34.500
that.

771
00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:38.639
She just says, like they might have both made it, and she just

772
00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:39.780
says, good night, Commander.

773
00:37:39.840 --> 00:37:42.719
It's absolutely clear what she wants him to do.

774
00:37:42.780 --> 00:37:44.280
And I thought that was pretty good.

775
00:37:44.340 --> 00:37:47.340
And there's a little, another just, you know, she's always doing

776
00:37:47.340 --> 00:37:48.420
something, isn't she?

777
00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:49.199
Gosh, she's good.

778
00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:51.360
Just always good.

779
00:37:51.420 --> 00:37:53.219
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

780
00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:55.619
I can't even contemplate having to tell his mother.

781
00:37:55.679 --> 00:37:57.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

782
00:38:00.420 --> 00:38:01.139
What's this?

783
00:38:01.199 --> 00:38:03.960
You didn't make him a lieutenant and you killed him.

784
00:38:05.039 --> 00:38:11.639
So this is a kind of a bit of a trope, which is that we go to, we

785
00:38:11.639 --> 00:38:15.119
go on the stage and we haven't had time to write an ending and so

786
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:18.119
the ending that we get just kind of happens.

787
00:38:18.179 --> 00:38:19.199
Look at the lighting.

788
00:38:19.260 --> 00:38:20.460
Look at that lighting.

789
00:38:20.519 --> 00:38:22.260
So good. isn't it?

790
00:38:22.980 --> 00:38:25.860
And so, you know, I said you did not.

791
00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:28.440
I remembered the lighting before I rewatched the episode.

792
00:38:29.579 --> 00:38:32.699
Tom Paris kissing 7 of nine.

793
00:38:32.760 --> 00:38:40.320
And so his original idea is that if he depicts a lot of love in

794
00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:45.780
the episode that will, you know, you can't, like love is the

795
00:38:45.780 --> 00:38:46.619
opposite of war.

796
00:38:46.679 --> 00:38:50.159
So we depict lots of love and lots of kissing, Harry kissing the

797
00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:51.239
Delaney sisters.

798
00:38:51.300 --> 00:38:54.780
Tom Paris, kissing 7 of nine, you know, all of that.

799
00:38:54.840 --> 00:38:58.380
And then look at this, look at this, look at his explanation.

800
00:38:58.440 --> 00:39:02.940
He says, this used to be a temple, and that table on the stage was

801
00:39:02.940 --> 00:39:06.539
an altar stone, and then we stopped using it that way.

802
00:39:06.599 --> 00:39:11.400
We stocked human sacrifice and we did plays and we don't know why

803
00:39:11.400 --> 00:39:13.199
but something must have happened to cause that.

804
00:39:13.260 --> 00:39:18.059
And he takes that as a sign that that there's a purpose to what

805
00:39:18.059 --> 00:39:19.260
the plays are doing.

806
00:39:19.380 --> 00:39:20.880
Do you know what I mean?

807
00:39:20.940 --> 00:39:24.000
The plays have represent some kind of moral progress or

808
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:24.360
something.

809
00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:27.059
Moral progress.

810
00:39:27.119 --> 00:39:27.360
Yeah.

811
00:39:27.420 --> 00:39:28.679
It's worth remembering.

812
00:39:28.739 --> 00:39:29.880
There has been a couple of kisses.

813
00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:32.639
In Star Trek as well.

814
00:39:32.699 --> 00:39:37.079
So the interracial kiss between Kirk and Ahura, the same-sex kiss

815
00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:41.760
between Dax and Lenara, which kicked up a storm at the time, but

816
00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:44.820
were attempting to normalise those things as well.

817
00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:50.219
You know, like, I think, like, he's, she's also saying, because

818
00:39:50.219 --> 00:39:53.219
you know, Star Trek doesn't normally do romance.

819
00:39:53.280 --> 00:39:56.039
That's not true because we've done lots and lots of romances, but

820
00:39:56.039 --> 00:39:57.480
that's not what it's about.

821
00:39:57.539 --> 00:40:01.980
Yeah, they're always terrible, except for resolution, which is

822
00:40:01.980 --> 00:40:04.079
terrible as well, but for different reasons.

823
00:40:04.139 --> 00:40:08.699
Um, so it's a thing that other shows do that Star Trek doesn't.

824
00:40:08.760 --> 00:40:12.179
You know, it's not the main purpose of Star Trek, and so what is

825
00:40:12.179 --> 00:40:15.420
the main purpose of Star Trek, other shows and other plays have

826
00:40:15.420 --> 00:40:16.139
love in them.

827
00:40:16.199 --> 00:40:17.400
So what's this for?

828
00:40:17.460 --> 00:40:22.079
And so now she's continuing to explain her world to him.

829
00:40:22.139 --> 00:40:23.460
It's great.

830
00:40:23.519 --> 00:40:24.900
There's stuff about the Borg, isn't it?

831
00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:29.880
The Borga incomprehensible to Lena, to his girlfriend.

832
00:40:29.940 --> 00:40:37.559
She's explaining it in terms of, of, you know, in terms that he

833
00:40:37.559 --> 00:40:38.519
can understand.

834
00:40:39.900 --> 00:40:41.340
Yes.

835
00:40:41.880 --> 00:40:45.059
I've just taken a look at who wrote this episode.

836
00:40:45.119 --> 00:40:45.900
Who is it?

837
00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:47.219
Go on, take a take a pump.

838
00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:48.780
Is it Manoski?

839
00:40:48.840 --> 00:40:50.400
It's Manosky.

840
00:40:50.460 --> 00:40:51.179
Yeah, yeah.

841
00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:51.780
Yeah.

842
00:40:51.840 --> 00:40:53.460
He goes one or 2 ways.

843
00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:56.880
Weird science, and it usually bombs, or he tries to do something a

844
00:40:56.880 --> 00:40:57.539
bit more formal.

845
00:40:57.599 --> 00:40:59.099
He wrote The Thor as well.

846
00:40:59.219 --> 00:41:00.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

847
00:41:00.059 --> 00:41:00.719
Voyager, yeah.

848
00:41:00.780 --> 00:41:04.679
So these sort of left field episodes, you know, as normally is, it

849
00:41:04.679 --> 00:41:05.699
normally is Menosky.

850
00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:09.239
And it's directed by Mike Vajar, who we last saw on the changing

851
00:41:09.239 --> 00:41:09.719
face of evil.

852
00:41:09.780 --> 00:41:13.260
And we were as similarly impressed with his direction and lighting

853
00:41:13.260 --> 00:41:14.039
and all of that there too.

854
00:41:14.940 --> 00:41:19.739
Yeah, so see, like that's his plan and I think that's beautiful.

855
00:41:19.800 --> 00:41:21.599
That is actually really something.

856
00:41:21.659 --> 00:41:23.219
And look at her smile.

857
00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:24.539
Look at Roxanne Smile.

858
00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:25.199
God, she's beautiful.

859
00:41:25.260 --> 00:41:27.960
And she smells so rare.

860
00:41:28.019 --> 00:41:31.739
She cares enough that she wants to stay at the end and see this

861
00:41:31.739 --> 00:41:32.639
through as well.

862
00:41:32.699 --> 00:41:33.780
Yeah, yeah.

863
00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:36.239
It says a lot about her as a character.

864
00:41:37.139 --> 00:41:39.119
But she can't.

865
00:41:39.179 --> 00:41:40.980
You know, I still need an ending. wonderful.

866
00:41:41.400 --> 00:41:44.340
And I like his cute summit.

867
00:41:44.639 --> 00:41:45.480
I like his cute throat.

868
00:41:45.539 --> 00:41:48.239
Oh well, you know, she dies on the way back to her home planet.

869
00:41:49.619 --> 00:41:51.719
You wouldn't dare.

870
00:41:51.780 --> 00:41:53.760
Look, like the relationship.

871
00:41:53.820 --> 00:41:58.920
Like that on the page, that could be her being angry, but it's

872
00:41:58.920 --> 00:41:59.760
absolutely not.

873
00:41:59.820 --> 00:42:01.980
Like, their relationship is really...

874
00:42:01.980 --> 00:42:04.679
I think that's it...

875
00:42:04.739 --> 00:42:05.099
Yeah, yeah.

876
00:42:06.420 --> 00:42:07.739
Even after she's gone, you know?

877
00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:11.099
Is this the bit where Harry Kim turns up now?

878
00:42:11.159 --> 00:42:12.719
What does Kelly tell her?

879
00:42:12.780 --> 00:42:13.980
I was like, oh, no.

880
00:42:14.039 --> 00:42:15.480
Oh, yeah, oh, I love that.

881
00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:16.260
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

882
00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:18.599
I was expecting to find a love nest.

883
00:42:18.840 --> 00:42:22.739
And so she threatens and I really quite...

884
00:42:22.739 --> 00:42:23.760
I thought she was going to try and kill her.

885
00:42:24.059 --> 00:42:27.360
So she just says don't turn up.

886
00:42:27.420 --> 00:42:33.719
Does, doesn't she, and she says, I'll out you to the autarch, if

887
00:42:33.719 --> 00:42:34.139
you turn up.

888
00:42:34.199 --> 00:42:37.260
And what's even better is she makes good on that promise.

889
00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:40.980
Yeah, yeah, in a moment where I sort of sat back and went, oh, God

890
00:42:40.980 --> 00:42:41.940
what is going to happen here?

891
00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:45.900
And the way that old guy comes in and goes, you know, she's

892
00:42:45.900 --> 00:42:48.000
declared Blano Torres.

893
00:42:48.119 --> 00:42:52.980
It's so great. makes the audience part of the play.

894
00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:53.519
Yes.

895
00:42:53.579 --> 00:42:57.960
So we go like it comes on another level and the play actually

896
00:42:57.960 --> 00:43:00.119
starts being about the room that we're in.

897
00:43:00.539 --> 00:43:02.880
And that is a thing that happens in Greek comedy. you know, like

898
00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:06.300
they have lines that are directed at the audience and make fun of

899
00:43:06.300 --> 00:43:07.800
the like location they're in.

900
00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:09.179
Like that's a thing that they do.

901
00:43:09.239 --> 00:43:10.860
Here's Harry.

902
00:43:10.920 --> 00:43:12.420
And here's our reversal.

903
00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:16.860
It's just like resolutions when Voyager came along at the end.

904
00:43:16.920 --> 00:43:20.039
The 2nd line is, oh, no, someone's come to take us away from all

905
00:43:20.039 --> 00:43:20.400
the fun.

906
00:43:20.460 --> 00:43:22.739
But I actually quite like this.

907
00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:24.960
I actually think he comes in and...

908
00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:27.900
But the way they sort of hug each other and they both...

909
00:43:27.900 --> 00:43:31.320
Because Roxanne is so excited to see him.

910
00:43:31.380 --> 00:43:33.119
She completely sells it.

911
00:43:33.179 --> 00:43:35.940
This is the reversal, isn't this the reversal?

912
00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:37.800
She has no plan at this point.

913
00:43:37.860 --> 00:43:39.840
She has no way of getting home.

914
00:43:39.900 --> 00:43:42.000
Everything she's trying to fail.

915
00:43:42.179 --> 00:43:45.239
But it's not a reversal in the episode's favour.

916
00:43:45.300 --> 00:43:47.760
Oh, no, but there you go.

917
00:43:47.820 --> 00:43:50.159
She even says that this is the ending of the episode I was looking

918
00:43:50.159 --> 00:43:50.579
for.

919
00:43:50.639 --> 00:43:52.079
That's the ending I was looking for.

920
00:43:52.139 --> 00:43:52.860
Yeah.

921
00:43:52.920 --> 00:43:55.079
So that's the ending of her episode.

922
00:43:55.139 --> 00:43:55.800
I like this.

923
00:43:56.099 --> 00:43:58.380
Now we haven't got a worry about her getting off the planet.

924
00:43:58.440 --> 00:44:00.599
That's why so we can focus on this.

925
00:44:00.659 --> 00:44:01.260
Yeah.

926
00:44:01.320 --> 00:44:02.579
I love that show.

927
00:44:02.639 --> 00:44:03.900
It's good, isn't it?

928
00:44:04.500 --> 00:44:05.519
Yeah, I do.

929
00:44:05.579 --> 00:44:12.360
I think... like, yes, I think it sells the sort of place that

930
00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:15.360
we're in and it's it's a pretty shock.

931
00:44:15.420 --> 00:44:17.579
You know, like it's not perfect, but it's pretty good.

932
00:44:18.480 --> 00:44:23.880
I'll take that over some of the less sophisticated CGI landscapes

933
00:44:23.880 --> 00:44:25.440
we had in early Enterprise.

934
00:44:25.500 --> 00:44:29.039
Yeah, this is, I think this is like a lot of real world elements

935
00:44:29.039 --> 00:44:32.699
that are assembled by a computer and stuff like that, I think.

936
00:44:32.760 --> 00:44:33.659
Batman there.

937
00:44:33.719 --> 00:44:34.500
That actor.

938
00:44:34.500 --> 00:44:35.760
And the old guy.

939
00:44:35.820 --> 00:44:38.820
He is a semi-regular on Stargate SG1.

940
00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:41.039
Oh, I kept a straight in UC anyway.

941
00:44:41.099 --> 00:44:43.860
He's very, he's very camping SG one, would you?

942
00:44:46.920 --> 00:44:49.559
So are they just going to improvise the ending at this point?

943
00:44:49.619 --> 00:44:51.179
No, he has an ending.

944
00:44:51.239 --> 00:44:52.920
Like the guy...

945
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:53.880
It's just cobbled it together.

946
00:44:53.940 --> 00:44:54.659
Yeah, yeah.

947
00:44:54.719 --> 00:44:55.980
And it's not a good ending.

948
00:44:56.039 --> 00:44:58.440
And so when things get spoiled.

949
00:44:58.500 --> 00:45:00.539
I mean, B'lana gives him a good ending, I think.

950
00:45:02.159 --> 00:45:07.380
Nathan, Voyager doesn't work on these sort of layers normally, does

951
00:45:07.380 --> 00:45:07.679
it?

952
00:45:07.739 --> 00:45:08.579
No.

953
00:45:08.639 --> 00:45:11.039
No, it can.

954
00:45:11.099 --> 00:45:14.280
And there are some very, very good high concept episodes of

955
00:45:14.280 --> 00:45:14.940
Voyager.

956
00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:17.519
We haven't really rolled that many of them.

957
00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:22.500
Like you said to me, the when Kurtzman Trek had a chance to truly

958
00:45:22.500 --> 00:45:23.460
celebrate Voyager.

959
00:45:23.519 --> 00:45:27.360
That's what they celebrated. the mad high content episode, yeah.

960
00:45:27.420 --> 00:45:27.900
Yeah.

961
00:45:27.960 --> 00:45:31.500
No, but I think there are really properly genuinely good things

962
00:45:31.500 --> 00:45:34.440
like distant origin or living witness.

963
00:45:34.500 --> 00:45:38.820
But I do think there's a sophistication in the writing here that

964
00:45:38.820 --> 00:45:39.960
we don't normally see.

965
00:45:40.019 --> 00:45:43.440
And certainly we're not seeing in the tail end of season 6 where

966
00:45:43.440 --> 00:45:45.599
Unimatrix 0 is Archifhanger.

967
00:45:45.659 --> 00:45:50.159
It's heading here in just a few episodes after we get past Fury

968
00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:53.099
which is also awful. banger of the fees, but you should have

969
00:45:53.099 --> 00:45:56.400
treated 7 of 9 going, I am the queen of the ball.

970
00:45:56.460 --> 00:45:57.780
That would have been great.

971
00:45:58.380 --> 00:46:01.199
Gosh, there are some pretty young actors there.

972
00:46:01.260 --> 00:46:01.679
Look at that.

973
00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:07.079
You know what I love about these Greek tragedies on the stage is

974
00:46:07.079 --> 00:46:09.539
how, you know, when she's saying that about being queen of the

975
00:46:09.539 --> 00:46:09.780
ball.

976
00:46:09.840 --> 00:46:10.739
She ain't talking to no one.

977
00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:12.900
Just the audience. yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

978
00:46:12.960 --> 00:46:14.219
Yeah.

979
00:46:14.280 --> 00:46:15.599
Well, that's the thing.

980
00:46:15.659 --> 00:46:19.199
I mean, in like the sort of great tragedies, the sort of 5th

981
00:46:19.199 --> 00:46:23.400
century Greek tragedies, there's only ever 3 actors in any scene

982
00:46:23.400 --> 00:46:26.880
you never have anymore, and you might have a chorus leader who

983
00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:28.619
might speak to those actors as well.

984
00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:31.920
And there are long speeches.

985
00:46:31.980 --> 00:46:34.679
You know, everything's, it's not naturalistic dialogue.

986
00:46:34.739 --> 00:46:37.980
The speeches are long and their poetry and so on.

987
00:46:38.039 --> 00:46:38.460
You know?

988
00:46:38.519 --> 00:46:40.260
It's sort of a lost art.

989
00:46:40.320 --> 00:46:43.619
I can remember many a classic Doctor Who villain talking to

990
00:46:43.619 --> 00:46:46.380
themselves and declaring things evilly to camera.

991
00:46:46.920 --> 00:46:48.780
We don't do it anymore.

992
00:46:48.840 --> 00:46:52.440
I think Tim Russ sells that stupid comedy moment where he kind of

993
00:46:52.440 --> 00:46:54.840
suddenly wakes up and says, as you were.

994
00:46:54.900 --> 00:46:56.760
That's really sweet.

995
00:46:57.360 --> 00:47:00.179
True box of Chakotay. going to bed.

996
00:47:00.239 --> 00:47:01.139
Yeah, yeah.

997
00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:03.300
And yeah.

998
00:47:04.860 --> 00:47:08.880
It's all right, but you know, it's hardly high comedy.

999
00:47:08.940 --> 00:47:13.440
No, no, no, but it's, it's, you know, it's not very Tuvok, which

1000
00:47:13.440 --> 00:47:14.760
is what makes it fun.

1001
00:47:14.820 --> 00:47:19.199
But I also like the...

1002
00:47:19.199 --> 00:47:21.780
Well, no, I kind of like the fact that he gets to be on the bridge

1003
00:47:21.780 --> 00:47:22.860
when it gets discovered.

1004
00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:27.179
And again, I think this is the scene where we could have sold the

1005
00:47:27.179 --> 00:47:32.099
a man with a heart that's breaking silently, you know, who feels

1006
00:47:32.099 --> 00:47:34.440
more than any of the rest of us.

1007
00:47:34.500 --> 00:47:40.260
And it, We get a close-up, but that's really it.

1008
00:47:40.320 --> 00:47:44.699
And I think that that needed to, you know, now that we've heard

1009
00:47:44.699 --> 00:47:48.900
what he's like, we should have seen that on the screen, I think.

1010
00:47:48.960 --> 00:47:52.980
I'm not sure it's there in the Ryan, though, and I'm not sure it's

1011
00:47:52.980 --> 00:47:54.179
there in the performance.

1012
00:47:54.239 --> 00:47:58.139
Well, except I think that foregrounding him and having him stay up

1013
00:47:58.139 --> 00:48:04.980
all night and having him be visibly concerned about the 2 of them

1014
00:48:04.980 --> 00:48:05.460
missing.

1015
00:48:05.519 --> 00:48:06.840
Do you know what I mean?

1016
00:48:06.900 --> 00:48:09.840
I think that's a deliberate writing choice, but I just don't think

1017
00:48:09.840 --> 00:48:13.139
anyone's kind of picked up the opportunity they had. tortured

1018
00:48:13.139 --> 00:48:15.480
under the surface emotion.

1019
00:48:15.539 --> 00:48:19.079
Well, there's no there's no doubt that Russ could do that, but

1020
00:48:19.079 --> 00:48:20.880
he's not really called upon to do it.

1021
00:48:20.940 --> 00:48:22.440
Yeah, he's just tired.

1022
00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:23.760
Do you know what I mean?

1023
00:48:23.820 --> 00:48:24.659
That's not that interesting.

1024
00:48:24.719 --> 00:48:27.539
The denouement of the play now.

1025
00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:28.019
Here we go.

1026
00:48:28.079 --> 00:48:35.099
Yeah, so we've got Janeway and 7 of 9 and delightfully each of

1027
00:48:35.099 --> 00:48:41.159
them just comes to the audience and explains, you know, their

1028
00:48:41.159 --> 00:48:43.260
motivations and who they are.

1029
00:48:43.320 --> 00:48:46.260
And, uh, 7 of nine.

1030
00:48:46.320 --> 00:48:49.559
And you do always say that there's no subtext in Voyager. pretty

1031
00:48:49.559 --> 00:48:50.340
much what we get you.

1032
00:48:50.400 --> 00:48:52.320
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

1033
00:48:52.380 --> 00:48:56.099
No, but she's actually telling the audience, you know, don't let

1034
00:48:56.099 --> 00:48:56.460
on.

1035
00:48:56.519 --> 00:49:00.900
I'm really the queen of the, uh, you know, like I'm, I'm, uh, I

1036
00:49:00.900 --> 00:49:02.820
know about the queen of the Borg.

1037
00:49:02.880 --> 00:49:05.039
See, this is nice too.

1038
00:49:05.099 --> 00:49:06.780
Just like normal interaction.

1039
00:49:06.900 --> 00:49:09.179
Like, she's excited.

1040
00:49:09.239 --> 00:49:09.840
She selling it.

1041
00:49:09.900 --> 00:49:12.300
This pretty boy comes on board.

1042
00:49:12.360 --> 00:49:14.219
He's clearly not paid to say anything.

1043
00:49:14.880 --> 00:49:18.960
He like comes in, gives her a piece of paper and then leaves

1044
00:49:18.960 --> 00:49:21.719
because we haven't paid for another speaking part at this point.

1045
00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:25.199
Do you remember?

1046
00:49:25.260 --> 00:49:27.900
Do you remember in collective, you know, the ball children

1047
00:49:27.900 --> 00:49:28.559
episode?

1048
00:49:28.619 --> 00:49:28.920
Yeah.

1049
00:49:28.920 --> 00:49:32.519
Do you remember that flat yellow lighting and those weird camera?

1050
00:49:32.519 --> 00:49:34.320
and those long shots and things like that.

1051
00:49:34.380 --> 00:49:37.739
It truly is a case of which director is.

1052
00:49:37.800 --> 00:49:40.860
Yeah, yeah. in the episode together, I think.

1053
00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:45.539
Because I'm just, I'm really struck by the visuals in this.

1054
00:49:45.659 --> 00:49:46.019
Yep.

1055
00:49:46.019 --> 00:49:51.719
So, without the inspiration, Bilato Torres will perish.

1056
00:49:51.780 --> 00:49:52.920
And look at her reaction.

1057
00:49:52.980 --> 00:49:54.420
Look at her reaction.

1058
00:49:54.480 --> 00:49:57.780
I actually think he's threatening to kill off Belana Torres.

1059
00:49:57.840 --> 00:50:01.500
I I think that Harry Overplays the why does it matter?

1060
00:50:01.619 --> 00:50:02.340
Like, who cares?

1061
00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:03.179
Do you know what I mean?

1062
00:50:03.239 --> 00:50:05.519
Like, I just think he overplays that because that makes him seem

1063
00:50:05.519 --> 00:50:06.239
like a dick?

1064
00:50:06.300 --> 00:50:10.739
because she cares and she's Roxanne Dawson and she's awesome and

1065
00:50:10.739 --> 00:50:11.880
you know, how dare he?

1066
00:50:11.940 --> 00:50:13.980
I think that's a bit of a plane.

1067
00:50:14.039 --> 00:50:15.659
Have you ever inspired anybody?

1068
00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:16.500
Yeah.

1069
00:50:16.559 --> 00:50:17.699
Harry King.

1070
00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:19.860
Look at you're asking.

1071
00:50:22.920 --> 00:50:26.519
He needs me or he's going to be the one that dies on stage.

1072
00:50:26.639 --> 00:50:27.719
She really cares about him.

1073
00:50:27.780 --> 00:50:29.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1074
00:50:29.460 --> 00:50:29.880
Yeah.

1075
00:50:29.940 --> 00:50:32.039
Oh, tell the captain I'll be a little late.

1076
00:50:32.099 --> 00:50:33.179
It's just frozen the thing.

1077
00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:36.480
Well, she throws like her gun.

1078
00:50:36.539 --> 00:50:37.559
She does have gun.

1079
00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:39.960
God, Torres at her best.

1080
00:50:40.079 --> 00:50:40.559
She's great.

1081
00:50:40.619 --> 00:50:41.519
Yeah, yeah.

1082
00:50:41.579 --> 00:50:43.619
I think this is a bit of a shame.

1083
00:50:43.679 --> 00:50:44.460
I'll tell you why.

1084
00:50:44.519 --> 00:50:48.300
It's pretty minor, but look.

1085
00:50:48.360 --> 00:50:51.599
And so that older woman...

1086
00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:53.340
She's giving full-on cable.

1087
00:50:53.400 --> 00:50:54.059
She really is.

1088
00:50:54.599 --> 00:50:55.380
You don't believe that.

1089
00:50:55.559 --> 00:50:57.300
That's so great.

1090
00:50:57.360 --> 00:50:59.880
So she's Kathleen Garrett, I think.

1091
00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:02.639
You see the masks of the gods.

1092
00:51:02.699 --> 00:51:03.900
Yeah, yeah.

1093
00:51:04.800 --> 00:51:06.000
They're incredible.

1094
00:51:06.059 --> 00:51:06.960
Yep, yeah.

1095
00:51:07.019 --> 00:51:08.760
So I like these masks.

1096
00:51:08.820 --> 00:51:12.059
The actual masks are full face in, do you know what I mean?

1097
00:51:12.119 --> 00:51:16.199
But having them on sticks so that we can see the actors' faces, I

1098
00:51:16.199 --> 00:51:17.099
think, is the right choice.

1099
00:51:17.219 --> 00:51:20.639
It's that moulded on mould group because it really looks like it.

1100
00:51:20.760 --> 00:51:23.699
I don't know, but like the masks are really good.

1101
00:51:23.760 --> 00:51:28.320
And it's a little bit because, you know, the mask makers haven't

1102
00:51:28.320 --> 00:51:30.000
seen those characters.

1103
00:51:30.059 --> 00:51:31.260
Do you know what I mean?

1104
00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:33.719
They can only have sort of had them described.

1105
00:51:33.780 --> 00:51:35.699
And so it's for our benefit, I think.

1106
00:51:35.820 --> 00:51:39.059
So great, as well, because all this tension in this last scene now

1107
00:51:39.059 --> 00:51:40.320
where she exposes time.

1108
00:51:40.380 --> 00:51:42.119
This has all been set out by the episode.

1109
00:51:42.179 --> 00:51:43.559
None of it comes out of left field.

1110
00:51:43.619 --> 00:51:45.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1111
00:51:45.659 --> 00:51:49.800
She comes in, I knew you'd come, or you needed an ending.

1112
00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:52.440
Well, I told you not to come, she runs out on the stage.

1113
00:51:52.500 --> 00:51:54.780
Really, really great, isn't it?

1114
00:51:54.840 --> 00:51:58.079
We got, I remember, many a Star Trek episode.

1115
00:51:58.079 --> 00:51:58.800
That had a terrible ending.

1116
00:51:58.860 --> 00:52:02.760
But and he goes, he goes, I'm going to disappear on a phone, and

1117
00:52:02.760 --> 00:52:06.239
he stepped in and says, no, no, we can't afford to make her

1118
00:52:06.239 --> 00:52:09.059
visibly disappear, so it's going to happen far away on a snow

1119
00:52:09.059 --> 00:52:10.019
covered peak.

1120
00:52:10.079 --> 00:52:11.219
And she goes, no, no, no.

1121
00:52:12.059 --> 00:52:14.579
Like, he's an old hand.

1122
00:52:14.639 --> 00:52:18.300
He's absolutely aware of how to deal with this.

1123
00:52:18.360 --> 00:52:20.519
He knows what we can achieve on the stage.

1124
00:52:20.579 --> 00:52:22.260
All of that sort of thing is really fun.

1125
00:52:22.320 --> 00:52:23.579
Yes.

1126
00:52:23.579 --> 00:52:28.920
The lead actress in a fit of jealousy has branded her rival on

1127
00:52:28.920 --> 00:52:29.340
Eternal.

1128
00:52:29.400 --> 00:52:33.179
And the stupid Ortak is so impressed that he's in the play.

1129
00:52:33.239 --> 00:52:34.920
Do you know what I mean?

1130
00:52:34.980 --> 00:52:37.079
And he thinks that this is playing all along.

1131
00:52:37.139 --> 00:52:39.239
Oh, look, you had me going.

1132
00:52:40.860 --> 00:52:43.380
I almost believe you.

1133
00:52:43.380 --> 00:52:46.199
Oh, it's great.

1134
00:52:46.260 --> 00:52:48.960
All you got to do is pamper someone's ego a little.

1135
00:52:49.019 --> 00:52:49.380
Yeah, yeah.

1136
00:52:49.440 --> 00:52:52.079
But also it's just like that 4th wall thing.

1137
00:52:52.139 --> 00:52:55.260
They're suddenly breaking the 4th wall and involving the audience

1138
00:52:55.260 --> 00:52:56.099
in the drama.

1139
00:52:56.159 --> 00:52:57.960
He thinks he's very clever too.

1140
00:52:58.019 --> 00:53:01.380
And the fact that her goodbye is here, their goodbye is here on

1141
00:53:01.380 --> 00:53:01.739
the stage.

1142
00:53:01.800 --> 00:53:03.000
Voyager needs me.

1143
00:53:03.059 --> 00:53:03.719
Please stay.

1144
00:53:03.780 --> 00:53:07.199
Yes, you have all you need right here.

1145
00:53:07.199 --> 00:53:09.960
And she, look, isn't that beautiful?

1146
00:53:10.619 --> 00:53:12.480
There's your mask.

1147
00:53:12.539 --> 00:53:13.739
I've given you your inspiration.

1148
00:53:13.800 --> 00:53:14.219
I'm off.

1149
00:53:14.280 --> 00:53:16.079
Oh, look at him.

1150
00:53:16.139 --> 00:53:17.039
Look at him.

1151
00:53:17.099 --> 00:53:19.500
And it wasn't a sexual relationship in any way.

1152
00:53:19.559 --> 00:53:20.880
It's just...

1153
00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:24.480
When he says in a minute about how the Adventures of Belano Torres

1154
00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:25.320
will continue.

1155
00:53:25.380 --> 00:53:28.139
No, it went on right in those plays for the rest of his life.

1156
00:53:28.199 --> 00:53:32.340
And so I think the shame is that the stupid Voyager, um

1157
00:53:32.340 --> 00:53:38.519
transporter effect doesn't go up and she says one to ascend to the

1158
00:53:38.519 --> 00:53:43.739
heavens and then we get that dumb effect, you know, um, uh, which

1159
00:53:43.739 --> 00:53:44.639
is a bit of a shame.

1160
00:53:44.699 --> 00:53:48.000
Whereas the next generation one visibly looks like it's going up

1161
00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:49.260
when they're beaming them up.

1162
00:53:49.320 --> 00:53:51.659
All talking at the stage, what, there's special effects on this

1163
00:53:51.659 --> 00:53:51.960
one.

1164
00:53:52.559 --> 00:53:53.519
Yeah, well that's exactly it.

1165
00:53:53.579 --> 00:53:55.739
He's absolutely wowed by the special affairs.

1166
00:53:55.860 --> 00:53:57.059
It's all done with mirrors.

1167
00:53:57.119 --> 00:53:57.719
I think, you know?

1168
00:53:57.960 --> 00:53:59.639
And this.

1169
00:53:59.699 --> 00:54:03.900
So he just actually just gives him speed. passionate and the

1170
00:54:03.900 --> 00:54:05.400
gleaming cities of earth.

1171
00:54:05.880 --> 00:54:07.980
Where peace reigns.

1172
00:54:08.039 --> 00:54:10.500
Yeah, and hatred has her home.

1173
00:54:10.559 --> 00:54:11.460
Yeah.

1174
00:54:11.519 --> 00:54:13.019
Isn't that good?

1175
00:54:13.079 --> 00:54:14.880
A great final line.

1176
00:54:14.940 --> 00:54:19.019
You know, and it's like a great final scene, I think, as well.

1177
00:54:19.079 --> 00:54:20.820
Like the whole scene is great.

1178
00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:23.519
But I love the gleaming cities of earth.

1179
00:54:23.579 --> 00:54:31.260
Like that, more than Voyager normally does, makes me remember why

1180
00:54:31.260 --> 00:54:33.599
they're, you know, what they're here for.

1181
00:54:33.659 --> 00:54:39.059
They want to go home, and we so rarely hear about home, except in

1182
00:54:39.059 --> 00:54:40.739
the most abstract way.

1183
00:54:40.800 --> 00:54:44.340
Yeah, and the glee of the cities of earth.

1184
00:54:44.400 --> 00:54:46.079
Like the gleaming cities of earth.

1185
00:54:46.139 --> 00:54:47.400
Like, that's that's nice.

1186
00:54:47.460 --> 00:54:48.539
I think that's beautiful.

1187
00:54:48.599 --> 00:54:49.860
And then...

1188
00:54:49.860 --> 00:54:52.440
Remember when Voyager came in through those fireworks?

1189
00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:57.059
Yeah, we don't get it. so bad, that shitty shot of San Francisco

1190
00:54:57.059 --> 00:54:57.900
at the very end.

1191
00:54:57.960 --> 00:55:03.840
But, but also, you know, that Star Trek presents a world where

1192
00:55:03.840 --> 00:55:05.760
peace reigns and hatred has no home.

1193
00:55:05.820 --> 00:55:07.619
And of course it doesn't always do that.

1194
00:55:07.679 --> 00:55:10.679
And Voyager in particular doesn't like to do that very much.

1195
00:55:10.739 --> 00:55:13.380
And that's what I like about this.

1196
00:55:13.500 --> 00:55:18.179
This is Voyager, embracing what Star Trek is for in a way that it

1197
00:55:18.179 --> 00:55:19.019
so rarely does.

1198
00:55:19.199 --> 00:55:24.719
I like to think that she gave him all of the crew logs for future

1199
00:55:24.719 --> 00:55:25.800
inspiration.

1200
00:55:25.800 --> 00:55:29.699
And, you know, he started doing more plays, you know, Voyager and

1201
00:55:29.699 --> 00:55:31.260
the threshold mutation.

1202
00:55:31.320 --> 00:55:35.519
Yeah, yeah, the twisted corridors of death or something like

1203
00:55:35.519 --> 00:55:35.699
that.

1204
00:55:36.780 --> 00:55:39.780
Think of the plays he could have done with that.

1205
00:55:39.840 --> 00:55:43.260
I hate to say it, but Netflix has now jumped to the next episode.

1206
00:55:43.320 --> 00:55:46.500
I'm going to read you the one line synopsis here.

1207
00:55:46.559 --> 00:55:50.579
Hes returns to Voyager, angry, aged, and more powerful than ever.

1208
00:55:50.639 --> 00:55:53.760
She tears through the ship and then travels back in time to alter

1209
00:55:53.760 --> 00:55:54.239
her history.

1210
00:55:54.300 --> 00:55:57.300
So we're back on normal Voyager territory there.

1211
00:55:57.360 --> 00:55:59.039
Yeah, yeah, just the usual crap.

1212
00:55:59.159 --> 00:56:02.579
Just to prove that this sophisticated episode was just a one-off.

1213
00:56:02.940 --> 00:56:05.940
But it is something that Voyager can do.

1214
00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:09.360
And I thought it was really fun and agreeable, and that it

1215
00:56:09.360 --> 00:56:12.659
attempted to be about something and mostly succeeded.

1216
00:56:12.960 --> 00:56:18.179
Yeah, smart, but with a brilliant guest star in there as well, a

1217
00:56:18.179 --> 00:56:22.679
really sort of amiable relationship between the 2 of them, better

1218
00:56:22.679 --> 00:56:24.960
than usual execution as well.

1219
00:56:25.019 --> 00:56:31.019
And just the sort of smarts that I typically don't see in

1220
00:56:31.019 --> 00:56:31.980
Voyager.

1221
00:56:32.039 --> 00:56:32.460
Yeah.

1222
00:56:32.460 --> 00:56:35.159
So this is this is way above average.

1223
00:56:35.219 --> 00:56:36.239
Yeah, absolutely.

1224
00:56:36.300 --> 00:56:39.840
Of all the voyages we've done, sort of probably in the top 3 so

1225
00:56:39.840 --> 00:56:40.079
far.

1226
00:56:40.139 --> 00:56:41.519
Yeah, I think that's probably true.

1227
00:56:48.059 --> 00:56:51.840
All right, it's the end of the episode and it's time for us to

1228
00:56:51.840 --> 00:56:54.000
choose what we're going to be doing next time.

1229
00:56:54.059 --> 00:56:58.559
Muse was your excellent choice last week, Joe. Thank you.

1230
00:56:58.559 --> 00:57:00.599
We're on a roll now.

1231
00:57:00.659 --> 00:57:02.039
Keeping our role.

1232
00:57:02.099 --> 00:57:06.840
And so in order to ensure that we stay on a roll.

1233
00:57:06.900 --> 00:57:10.019
I'm going to pick the series of Star Trek with the highest hit

1234
00:57:10.019 --> 00:57:13.019
rate and that is Star Trek Lower Decks.

1235
00:57:13.079 --> 00:57:15.239
I kind of argue with that.

1236
00:57:15.420 --> 00:57:17.820
I've not seen a bad episode yet.

1237
00:57:17.880 --> 00:57:19.019
So much fun.

1238
00:57:19.079 --> 00:57:19.920
All right.

1239
00:57:19.980 --> 00:57:23.099
So Star Trek, lower decks, and I'm going to press the button.

1240
00:57:23.159 --> 00:57:26.579
So this is series one, episode nine.

1241
00:57:26.639 --> 00:57:28.980
It's crisis point.

1242
00:57:29.039 --> 00:57:35.039
So that is the episode where they have a film.

1243
00:57:35.099 --> 00:57:41.219
Do you remember the film where Mariner creates a film and she uses

1244
00:57:41.219 --> 00:57:45.239
it to kind of work out her problems with her mother?

1245
00:57:45.300 --> 00:57:48.059
It's really...

1246
00:57:48.119 --> 00:57:49.260
It's really pretty great.

1247
00:57:49.320 --> 00:57:52.500
And I think that's the episode where we actually find out, or it's

1248
00:57:52.500 --> 00:57:55.920
the episode after where we find out, or everyone else on the, in

1249
00:57:55.920 --> 00:58:00.059
the cast finds out that Mariner is Freeman's daughter, and it

1250
00:58:00.059 --> 00:58:02.940
makes fun of Star Trek movies and stuff.

1251
00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:05.880
Is this the one where Freeman comes in?

1252
00:58:05.880 --> 00:58:09.000
And there's just an extended sequence where they're basically

1253
00:58:09.000 --> 00:58:10.139
chasing...

1254
00:58:10.199 --> 00:58:13.320
And I just remember it being one incredible set piece after

1255
00:58:13.320 --> 00:58:13.619
another.

1256
00:58:13.739 --> 00:58:15.480
Oh, please let's do this one.

1257
00:58:15.539 --> 00:58:19.079
This is the one that sort of comes to mind when I think about

1258
00:58:19.079 --> 00:58:24.179
lower decks because it's the one that suggests that this isn't

1259
00:58:24.179 --> 00:58:28.079
just a bit of a laugh, but actually has rounded characters and

1260
00:58:28.079 --> 00:58:29.280
something to say about them.

1261
00:58:29.340 --> 00:58:32.820
Yeah, I really, really like it, and it has maybe the best joke

1262
00:58:32.820 --> 00:58:37.199
about, It has some great jokes about Star Trek movies, but in

1263
00:58:37.199 --> 00:58:41.039
particular, it has maybe the best joke about Star Trek movies that

1264
00:58:41.039 --> 00:58:42.239
anyone's ever made in it.

1265
00:58:42.300 --> 00:58:43.739
I really like it as well.

1266
00:58:43.800 --> 00:58:45.000
I think it's super fun.

1267
00:58:45.059 --> 00:58:50.400
But as well, that sort of relationship between child and mother

1268
00:58:50.400 --> 00:58:52.800
that sort of fractious relationship.

1269
00:58:52.860 --> 00:58:54.960
That's a relationship I have with my mother.

1270
00:58:55.019 --> 00:58:58.800
So as I was watching these series of spectacularly violent scenes

1271
00:58:58.800 --> 00:59:02.699
play out, I was going, oh, this is almost therapeutic watching

1272
00:59:02.699 --> 00:59:03.179
this.

1273
00:59:03.239 --> 00:59:07.980
It's really tapping into something very emotional and quite real.

1274
00:59:08.039 --> 00:59:12.119
And in what is considered to be, you know, the parody, cartoon

1275
00:59:12.119 --> 00:59:14.039
comedy, Star Trek show.

1276
00:59:14.099 --> 00:59:15.179
That's something pretty special.

1277
00:59:15.239 --> 00:59:20.400
I think the great thing about it is that it often does really very

1278
00:59:20.400 --> 00:59:26.639
very good Star Trek and the characters are all really great.

1279
00:59:26.699 --> 00:59:32.099
Like the 4 leads, the 4 leads, and also the bridge crew as well.

1280
00:59:32.159 --> 00:59:33.960
Like all of the characters are well drawn.

1281
00:59:34.019 --> 00:59:35.639
They're all really fun and funny.

1282
00:59:35.699 --> 00:59:36.659
They're super likeable.

1283
00:59:36.719 --> 00:59:37.739
They're great to hang out with.

1284
00:59:37.800 --> 00:59:40.019
I love Tandy and Rutherford.

1285
00:59:40.079 --> 00:59:43.860
I think this could be the only Star Trek show, you know, that if

1286
00:59:43.860 --> 00:59:47.099
imagine all the absurd plots were sort of pushed out of the window

1287
00:59:47.099 --> 00:59:49.019
and it was just hang time.

1288
00:59:49.079 --> 00:59:50.639
Just hang time.

1289
00:59:50.699 --> 00:59:52.980
It would still be great to watch because they're just so much fun

1290
00:59:52.980 --> 00:59:53.699
this for.

1291
00:59:53.760 --> 00:59:56.519
I could just watch them having extended dialogue scenes for 20

1292
00:59:56.519 --> 00:59:59.340
minutes and do a season of that. so fun.

1293
00:59:59.460 --> 01:00:01.199
All right, let's do that then.

1294
01:00:01.260 --> 01:00:02.039
Let's do it.

1295
01:00:02.099 --> 01:00:03.539
Yeah, amazing.

1296
01:00:10.559 --> 01:00:14.400
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1297
01:00:14.400 --> 01:00:15.539
and Nathan Bottomley.

1298
01:00:15.599 --> 01:00:19.199
We're online at Untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find

1299
01:00:19.199 --> 01:00:22.019
subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1300
01:00:22.079 --> 01:00:26.039
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceron, and the theme was

1301
01:00:26.039 --> 01:00:27.659
composed by Cameron Lamb.

1302
01:00:27.780 --> 01:00:32.219
This episode was recorded on the 31st of October 2023, and

1303
01:00:32.219 --> 01:00:33.539
released on the 3rd of November.

1304
01:00:33.599 --> 01:00:38.519
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Lower Decks, Crisis Point.

1305
01:00:54.780 --> 01:00:57.119
And what do you think the other two are?

1306
01:00:58.619 --> 01:01:00.480
Counterpoint.

1307
01:01:00.539 --> 01:01:02.039
Yeah, counterpoint's pretty great.

1308
01:01:02.219 --> 01:01:06.119
And oh, oh, oh, god damn it, what's it called?

1309
01:01:06.179 --> 01:01:06.900
The series one one.

1310
01:01:06.960 --> 01:01:07.920
The Sesca one.

1311
01:01:07.980 --> 01:01:09.659
State of Flux.

1312
01:01:09.719 --> 01:01:10.619
Yeah.

1313
01:01:10.679 --> 01:01:12.000
That's so fun.

1314
01:01:13.500 --> 01:01:16.320
And you're a fool to follow her.

1315
01:01:16.380 --> 01:01:18.179
That's so great.

1316
01:01:18.239 --> 01:01:19.440
I love all of that.

1317
01:01:19.500 --> 01:01:21.840
See, back in the day, they did melodrama.

1318
01:01:21.900 --> 01:01:22.440
Yeah, yeah.

1319
01:01:22.500 --> 01:01:25.380
Why haven't we got any good Voyager?

1320
01:01:25.440 --> 01:01:27.300
It must be really like super rare.

1321
01:01:27.360 --> 01:01:29.579
Why have we got anything like this?

1322
01:01:29.639 --> 01:01:32.940
I think this is probably the best episode of Voyager we've had.

1323
01:01:33.000 --> 01:01:34.980
Counterpoint is very good as well.

1324
01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:38.579
And again, you know, a great guest actor and stuff like that.

1325
01:01:38.639 --> 01:01:42.239
And it State of Flux does some of the things that Counterpoint

1326
01:01:42.239 --> 01:01:42.420
does.

1327
01:01:42.480 --> 01:01:48.420
You know, the kind of they pull a swifty on the bad guy and we

1328
01:01:48.420 --> 01:01:51.239
don't realise that we think that...

1329
01:01:51.300 --> 01:01:53.039
There's so much, Kate.

1330
01:01:53.099 --> 01:01:54.480
She's so great in it.

1331
01:01:54.539 --> 01:01:55.559
Yeah, yeah.

1332
01:01:55.619 --> 01:01:59.099
And it's giving Kate the relationship with the with the great

1333
01:01:59.099 --> 01:02:03.239
guest actor too, the works. direct defeat how you're going to be

1334
01:02:03.239 --> 01:02:06.119
when we get bride of Chaotica and we see her as queen of the

1335
01:02:06.119 --> 01:02:06.599
spider people.

1336
01:02:06.659 --> 01:02:10.559
Yeah, I actually don't really like that all that much, but okay.

1337
01:02:10.619 --> 01:02:12.659
Well, I heard before.

1338
01:02:12.719 --> 01:02:13.739
I know, she's fabulous.

1339
01:02:13.800 --> 01:02:14.219
She's great.

1340
01:02:14.280 --> 01:02:18.119
I'm not sure that Captain Proton is for me.

1341
01:02:18.179 --> 01:02:20.639
Lower the lightning shields.

1342
01:02:20.699 --> 01:02:22.199
So we did have...

1343
01:02:22.199 --> 01:02:24.059
My spider ships want to come through.

1344
01:02:24.119 --> 01:02:28.500
We did have Captain, we did have what's his face, doctor.

1345
01:02:28.860 --> 01:02:29.460
What's he called?

1346
01:02:29.519 --> 01:02:31.199
Is he Dr. Chaotica?

1347
01:02:31.679 --> 01:02:33.719
Mr. Chaotica?

1348
01:02:33.780 --> 01:02:34.380
Yeah.

1349
01:02:34.380 --> 01:02:35.940
Oh, just Just chaotica, are they?

1350
01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:36.360
Yeah.

1351
01:02:36.420 --> 01:02:38.340
So he is in that episode.

1352
01:02:38.400 --> 01:02:42.000
He's in 2 VX in this year's lower decks.

1353
01:02:42.900 --> 01:02:45.539
Yeah, and Michael Sullivan.

1354
01:02:45.599 --> 01:02:47.039
I need to watch that.

1355
01:02:47.099 --> 01:02:48.300
Oh, do you know what?

1356
01:02:48.360 --> 01:02:49.199
So it finishes.

1357
01:02:49.199 --> 01:02:51.960
I was going to choose lower decks.

1358
01:02:52.019 --> 01:02:54.360
I thought it was me this week and I was going to choose lower

1359
01:02:54.360 --> 01:02:55.199
decks for us to watch.

1360
01:02:55.260 --> 01:02:55.920
Well, I could do that.

1361
01:02:55.920 --> 01:02:56.820
But it's yours.

1362
01:02:56.880 --> 01:02:57.539
It's all yours.

1363
01:02:57.599 --> 01:02:59.639
We haven't done 90 straight for a while.

1364
01:02:59.699 --> 01:03:03.059
We haven't done Christmas for quite a while, actually.

1365
01:03:03.239 --> 01:03:05.219
Yeah, that's what I mean.

1366
01:03:05.280 --> 01:03:07.199
We did that one episode of Picard, didn't we?

1367
01:03:07.260 --> 01:03:09.119
The Picard series 2 finale.

1368
01:03:09.179 --> 01:03:13.559
No, we've done something more recently than that, surely.

1369
01:03:13.619 --> 01:03:15.000
Happy?

1370
01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:15.840
Let's see.

1371
01:03:15.900 --> 01:03:16.320
You sure?

1372
01:03:16.320 --> 01:03:17.460
It's on the homepage.

1373
01:03:17.519 --> 01:03:18.360
What's the last hand?

1374
01:03:18.420 --> 01:03:20.639
We've done TSE.

1375
01:03:20.639 --> 01:03:25.980
Resolutions, Galileo 7, Equinox, the Price, Rocks and Shoals.

1376
01:03:26.039 --> 01:03:29.400
If memory serves, we did that not very good episode of series 2.

1377
01:03:29.579 --> 01:03:31.679
Oh, no wonder I forgot.

1378
01:03:31.739 --> 01:03:32.280
Yeah, yeah.

1379
01:03:32.340 --> 01:03:35.699
Assignment Earth, Collective, remember me.

1380
01:03:35.760 --> 01:03:37.199
So we have done more.

1381
01:03:37.199 --> 01:03:38.880
Well, you could just put in the last stand.

1382
01:03:38.940 --> 01:03:41.639
You could just put in all of...

1383
01:03:41.699 --> 01:03:43.920
Oh, I was going to say, all of Kurtzman Trek and see what we get.

1384
01:03:46.980 --> 01:03:49.559
We haven't done a lower decks for a while.

1385
01:03:49.679 --> 01:03:51.539
It might be fun to do a series four.

1386
01:03:51.599 --> 01:03:55.199
They're all in there, except for, yeah.

1387
01:03:55.260 --> 01:03:56.340
Yeah, let's do that.

1388
01:03:56.400 --> 01:03:56.639
All right.