WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 21:56:33

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So we're right at the end of Series 2 of Voyager.

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This is the 2nd last episode before we go into basics part one. and

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I remembered watching this episode originally, but what I was

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surprised by watching it this time was how great I thought it

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was.

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I'm going to take a stab and say that and you know the scene, and

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I'm not going to say what the scene is.

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Voyager may have peaked in this episode and it's all downhill from

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here.

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With the occasional sort of, you know, memorable action romp.

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I love this at the time.

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I remember watching this at the time and, you know, we've talked

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about series 2 of Voyager before.

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How it's one of my favourites.

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We've been going back and we've done a couple now, haven't we?

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We done alliances.

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Yeah, we've done this.

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I can't remember what else we've done from two.

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We have done another one as well. they've all been great.

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State of Fox.

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Oh, that was from one, wasn't it?

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But yeah, early voyager. early boys, yeah.

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There's so much potential here.

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Yeah.

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And we're just on the verge of exploiting it in this episode.

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And then we don't.

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And then we don't. no It's like I sent you in a message.

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Watcher does like flirting with magnificence and then completely

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ignoring it afterwards.

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It's a huge disappointment.

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And I think, like, we have done a number of romances on Star Trek

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the Next Generation.

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And frankly, all of the men in those were just absolute fucking

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creeps.

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So Ronan, Odan and Raal most recently seen being oiled up by

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Deanna in the Price.

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They're all awful.

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Like, they're so creepy and they're so gross.

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And like Jerry Taylor, who writes this, was involved in at least

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some of those, wasn't she?

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Oh, she's written a number of terrible tread romances.

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But this gets it absolutely right.

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And Chakotay is so charming and so perfect for this.

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And the romance really lands until the point where they should

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kiss and don't, and then there's a very weird scene where the

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relationship is clearly over, but we don't know why, possibly

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because it's the end of the episode.

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And there's no consequences.

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The sad truth is, you know, I fear that Chakotay may have peaked

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in this episode as well.

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Unfortunately, Robert Belshard is going to be in 5 more seasons of

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Star Trek after this, giving a slightly relaxed performance.

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Yeah, he's so gentle with her.

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That's what I really liked.

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And he wants her to come to the conclusion that they may not get

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off the planet, but he won't force her, which is what those other

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kids would have done in those other episodes.

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Exactly.

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He doesn't force her to do it.

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He gently waits and he gently suggests we might be here for a long

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time and makes life extremely comfortable for her whilst she comes

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to that conclusion herself.

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It's like I said to you.

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This episode never once convinced me that Jane and Shikotay are

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going to have a log cabin like Calamity Jane and Katie out of the

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woods for the rest of their lives.

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All the episode had to do was convince us that Shameway believe

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that, so they could have that conversation at the end of the

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episode, which is the really important moment.

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Yeah, I thought I remember Chakotay being quite a compelling

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character, which is why as we've done these Voyager episodes.

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I'm going, well, it's my memory that I have full C.

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What's going on?

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No, it's for the 1st couple of years where he's got a bit of

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edge.

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That scene I said to you about where he punches the marquee man

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down and says, oh, you want to do things the marquee way. fine.

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Well, do it.

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And here with the with how he treats Janeway in this episode.

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This is the interesting Chakotay that I remember.

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What a shame that they just didn't invest in his character after

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this.

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I think the other thing that's extraordinary is just what an

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incredibly great performance Kate gives.

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Like just she's doing something in every scene with every line

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every reaction.

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There are just some incredible moments.

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She's not, like she's not the method, is she?

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She's like a more sort of traditional actor who is letting you

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know what the character feels in a sort of communicative way

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rather than by imitating it.

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And she does such a good job.

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She's so, so tremendous.

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I think a time point out bit.

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Well, the bit the bit at the end, you like the bit at the end

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where she's planting the seedlings and then he comes along and she

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just throws her head back and laughs in the most relaxed.

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I'm going to love my life here away.

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Just as the com cystal comes in and goes, oh, it's Chevoc here, you

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know, we're going to be in you up to the ship now, you know.

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It's just perfect.

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But, you know, can I do the line?

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Because every time I think about this episode, only one line comes

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to my head.

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And that is, what's that?

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building.

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What could you be building?

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And why can't you tell me?

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Oh, she's great.

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But just seeing her not literally with her hair down, but seeing

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her relax throughout this episode.

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That's the joy of it.

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And it is like a, it's a very different performance to that sort

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of stick up that butt that she does on the bridge.

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And I know sort of in later seasons, she does learn to sort of be

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a bit more gentle within her authority.

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I think initially they wanted her to be, didn't they, very

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masculine and hard-assed because for good sakes, we've got a woman

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in command of the ship, you know, yeah, yeah.

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We can't let her be too feminine.

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You got those people, all those people in the suits at the back of

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the set saying, you know, sort your ear out, love.

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Come on. yeah But seeing her, this, ah, just that one with life.

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Yes, just enjoy it.

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And you're right, the way Mulgroup plays all of it is extremely

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watchable.

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Yeah, she's great.

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She's absolutely superb.

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And so there's also the B plot on board the ship.

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And the funny thing about that is that it hits a couple of the

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beats that the Galileo 7 hit last time where you have Tuvok having

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to make command decisions.

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And in one...

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We said we did this a lot, didn't we?

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Yeah, yeah.

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So in one scene, the worst, Robert gets cross at him for not

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caring about the fact that Janeway and Chakotay were being left

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behind.

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And there's also that little needling bit from Kes in a scene that

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the 2 of them have together.

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I like that scene, though, because he will listen to that.

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Yeah.

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I think it's a mistake because, you know, I think they've decided

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that because Tuvok is a Vulcan, not half Vulcan like Spock, but

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just a Vulcan.

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So he is less emotional and doesn't have that emotional conflict

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that Spock has.

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But that's not really as interesting as where we end up landing

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with the Vulcans, which is they have strong emotions and have

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learned the importance of controlling them.

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So it's not that Tuvok can't feel the loss of his friend, which is

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almost what we get here.

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It's that he does feel it and maybe more deeply than everyone else

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on board the ship, but he's learned to control it because he has

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to.

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And that's a more interesting story than he's just a kind of robot

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and he doesn't care as much as everyone else, which is what the

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script does.

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The other beat that it hits is Janeway accusing him in the final

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scene of having an emotional reaction, which is exactly what Kirk

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does with Spock at the end of Galileo 7.

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I mean, a lot of that, where you just said there about him sort of

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digging with all this under the surface, it's very subtle, and I

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think you probably have to look for it a bit.

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Yeah, I think that he's very good in this because of course he

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is.

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Yeah, he's given something to do.

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He must have been absolutely delighted.

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What annoyed me about that subplot was Harry Kim. who essentially

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attempts to incite a rebellion on Voyager because he can't get his

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own way because he won't leave Mother behind.

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And again, I think that's part of the problem.

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You know, people complain about the Roddenbury rule that we

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shouldn't have regular characters in conflict with one another, and

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they say that that doesn't make for drama, but this sort of

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conflict between the characters doesn't make for drama either.

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Well, no, we know Star Trek well enough.

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We know the formula.

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We know Jane Wen's going to be back at the end of the episode and

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we know Harry Kim isn't going to be in the brig.

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And that's a problem.

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If you're playing out these scenes and you know the conclusion to

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all of this.

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But it's not just that.

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It's just that those interactions where they're sort of being

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grumpy and petulant and stuff aren't fun to watch.

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And if they're people that we like and people who've laughed a lot

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together and stuff and they're sad and they're trying to support

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one another or they're trying to get on with their work and not

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managing it or whatever, that's more interesting than just Bilanas

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bitchy to that ensign for no reason.

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And, you know, Harry's sucking his thumb and being insubordinate.

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He always feels like his bottom lips just protruding just a little

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bit, don't he, Harry Kim?

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Like he's a bit sulky.

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Yeah.

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Can I give you a glimpse into what you might have seen had Kenneth

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Biller had his way with this episode?

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Oh, okay.

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Okay, so we've got him quoting here on memory alpha.

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I had a hand in resolutions in the sense that I wanted to do a

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story about Janeway and Chakotay stranded on the planet.

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But I wanted to do a more sci-fi twist on it.

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I can see you rolling your eyes already where they get stranded

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and Voyager literally left for a time eddy to get home.

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When they come back, Chakotay and Jane might have aged 40 years

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and have a family.

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Oh, we've done that, haven't we?

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Jerry Taylor felt it was too reminiscent of the inner light.

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Oh, okay.

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What about children of time?

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No, we hadn't had that yet?

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I don't think.

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Oh okay.

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Right.

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Maybe around about this time, actually.

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Yeah.

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Voyager 2, DS 95. yeah.

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I mean, that's an interesting idea.

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Yeah, but not a very interesting one.

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Well, no, because instead of ageing makeup.

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Definitely.

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And it would have been terrible.

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The good thing is, is you love hang time, and this is essentially

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the 2 of them just hanging out. waiting for Janeway to decide to

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fuck him, you know?

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Yeah, it's wonderful.

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Do you want to hear what Robert Belcheron has to say about this?

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Yeah, okay.

231
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Of course you do.

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So he has to say, it's a Star Trek romance, he says, which means

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we touch hands and it's supposed to be thrilling.

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I think he's a bit pissed, you know, that he doesn't get to, you

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know, have it off with Kate Mulgrew.

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Yeah.

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Well, I'm a bit pissed that didn't happen because, I mean, it's a

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romance.

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All of the beats and there's a big hole at the end of it where

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they don't kiss.

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I mean, I think they do kiss.

242
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We cut away from the scene.

243
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No, no, no, no, but that's not how you do it.

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Like we weren't going to see them kissing necessarily.

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We weren't going to see them having sex, but we were at least

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going to know that the writers and everyone concerned means us to

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understand that that's what's happening.

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But instead, we get the very definite kind of feeling that they go

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oh, shit, this is the romance. don't think we want to deal with

250
00:11:53.399 --> 00:11:54.299
this properly.

251
00:11:54.360 --> 00:11:57.000
Let's not have that scene after all.

252
00:11:57.059 --> 00:11:58.919
So frustrating.

253
00:11:58.980 --> 00:12:00.120
It's really bad.

254
00:12:00.179 --> 00:12:06.840
So he was initially quite critical of this, but later on, sort of

255
00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:09.840
years later, he said it pushed the emotional boundaries of what

256
00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:10.379
the show could do.

257
00:12:10.440 --> 00:12:13.500
I think it turned out to be a very good story.

258
00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:16.740
He doesn't think that it cements the relationship in a romantic

259
00:12:16.740 --> 00:12:17.399
way.

260
00:12:17.460 --> 00:12:21.179
He just thinks it's a very strong friendship that's solidified

261
00:12:21.179 --> 00:12:21.480
here.

262
00:12:21.539 --> 00:12:23.399
I don't think that's what they're doing.

263
00:12:23.460 --> 00:12:24.360
No.

264
00:12:24.419 --> 00:12:29.340
And we've complained, remember, that we then go on to have a

265
00:12:29.340 --> 00:12:33.779
couple of season finales where Chakoto just says fuck you and is

266
00:12:33.779 --> 00:12:36.659
massively insubordinate and doesn't kind of give a shit.

267
00:12:36.779 --> 00:12:43.259
And even after that line in Scorpion, You know, where she says to

268
00:12:43.259 --> 00:12:47.460
him, 3 years ago, I didn't even know your name and now I can't

269
00:12:47.460 --> 00:12:48.779
imagine a day without you.

270
00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:50.639
You know, like that.

271
00:12:50.700 --> 00:12:55.559
Like, that was so sort of fantastic and spectacular and such a, and

272
00:12:55.559 --> 00:12:58.679
just, you know, just another brilliant mulgrew delivered line.

273
00:12:59.580 --> 00:13:03.000
But it would carry even more weight, you know, they were having a

274
00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:03.899
romantic relationship.

275
00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:05.700
And why can't we do that?

276
00:13:05.820 --> 00:13:07.080
Like, why?

277
00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:07.919
can't they do that?

278
00:13:08.039 --> 00:13:09.720
They won't let Picard have one.

279
00:13:09.779 --> 00:13:11.700
They won't, again, DFI's the outlier.

280
00:13:11.759 --> 00:13:13.980
Cisco is the only one who's allowed to have a long-term

281
00:13:13.980 --> 00:13:15.299
relationship, a mature one.

282
00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:18.299
And other characters have relationships that last and stuff like

283
00:13:18.299 --> 00:13:18.779
that.

284
00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:19.620
Like they do it.

285
00:13:19.679 --> 00:13:23.519
No, instead we give Janeway Fairhaven, don't we?

286
00:13:23.580 --> 00:13:26.820
And the opportunity to personalise her own dildo.

287
00:13:26.879 --> 00:13:29.100
Yeah, yeah, yeah. and delete his wife.

288
00:13:29.159 --> 00:13:30.360
Delete the wife.

289
00:13:30.419 --> 00:13:32.700
Yeah. like that scene.

290
00:13:32.759 --> 00:13:36.360
Jerry Taylor says, you know, this show is going to make a lot of

291
00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:37.080
people happy.

292
00:13:37.139 --> 00:13:40.799
At least according to the mail, I get, because basically it traps

293
00:13:40.799 --> 00:13:43.679
Commander Shakotay and Captain Jane, we're together on a desert

294
00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:44.460
island planet.

295
00:13:44.519 --> 00:13:47.159
So the portion of the audience were gagging for this.

296
00:13:47.220 --> 00:13:48.120
Yeah.

297
00:13:48.419 --> 00:13:50.700
That's another reason to keep it going.

298
00:13:51.059 --> 00:13:56.519
I think it works as an episode because it does that sort of

299
00:13:56.519 --> 00:13:57.179
stuff.

300
00:13:57.240 --> 00:13:59.159
It gives Kate the chance to act.

301
00:13:59.220 --> 00:14:01.019
It's sort of solid.

302
00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:05.100
She imbues some of the cheesy dialogue with some real kind of

303
00:14:05.100 --> 00:14:05.639
warmth.

304
00:14:05.700 --> 00:14:07.559
It's it's terrific.

305
00:14:07.620 --> 00:14:09.419
She's so happy doing it.

306
00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:13.440
The scenes where she has to have one-sided dialogue scenes with

307
00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:13.919
the monkey.

308
00:14:13.980 --> 00:14:16.980
I mean, I said, oh, you are game, Kate, you are game.

309
00:14:17.039 --> 00:14:18.779
I like the monkey as well.

310
00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:22.200
Before we go in, can I give the last word to Kate Mulgrew

311
00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:22.679
herself?

312
00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:25.980
Yes. about this episode because we all want to know what she's got

313
00:14:25.980 --> 00:14:27.059
to say about this romance.

314
00:14:27.899 --> 00:14:32.100
The audience is very faithful to these ideas and concepts.

315
00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:35.159
My God, you just know when I'm reading out something by K-Mol grew

316
00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:35.460
don't you?

317
00:14:35.580 --> 00:14:36.960
Yeah, she's smart isn't she?

318
00:14:37.019 --> 00:14:38.039
She's so clever.

319
00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:42.659
If they see a match taking place or revolving and they see it

320
00:14:42.659 --> 00:14:47.220
actually enhanced via a wonderful episode like resolutions, then I

321
00:14:47.220 --> 00:14:50.100
think they're quite disconcerted when it's just left.

322
00:14:50.279 --> 00:14:52.799
And I am equally so.

323
00:14:52.860 --> 00:14:57.960
Yeah, she's she's pretty appalled that they didn't follow this

324
00:14:57.960 --> 00:14:58.139
up.

325
00:14:58.200 --> 00:14:59.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

326
00:14:59.580 --> 00:15:01.379
I think it's a it's a shame.

327
00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:04.919
However, I don't think our lingering impression that this episode

328
00:15:04.919 --> 00:15:06.720
should be that it's a failure.

329
00:15:06.779 --> 00:15:08.399
The episode is a success, isn't it?

330
00:15:08.519 --> 00:15:11.399
But it's just where they went next that doesn't work.

331
00:15:11.460 --> 00:15:12.419
I think so.

332
00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:15.840
I think they just kind of bottle out at the end in a sort of

333
00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:18.659
really weird and upsettingly disappointing way.

334
00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:22.259
I'm only emphasising that because we've done a handful of wager

335
00:15:22.259 --> 00:15:24.000
episodes recently where we've been really mean.

336
00:15:24.899 --> 00:15:27.360
No, I enjoyed this a great deal.

337
00:15:27.419 --> 00:15:30.179
I watched it twice in preparation.

338
00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:31.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

339
00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:34.259
You said that to me in one episode and I've taken it on as like a

340
00:15:34.259 --> 00:15:34.980
life goal now.

341
00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:35.879
It's nice to be nice.

342
00:15:35.940 --> 00:15:38.039
Well, let's do it, should we?

343
00:15:38.039 --> 00:15:39.059
I think we should.

344
00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:40.620
I will count us in.

345
00:15:40.799 --> 00:15:45.779
Five, four, three, two, one.

346
00:15:46.379 --> 00:15:48.240
And we're off.

347
00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:51.120
And I believe we're outside.

348
00:15:51.179 --> 00:15:54.000
Yeah, so...

349
00:15:54.059 --> 00:16:00.120
No, some of this stuff is outside and some of it's indoors, but

350
00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:03.899
the indoor outside sets are pretty good.

351
00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:09.899
And there is some talk on memory alpha of them doing a night shoot

352
00:16:09.899 --> 00:16:10.440
as well.

353
00:16:10.980 --> 00:16:12.899
Oh, okay.

354
00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:14.220
Well, let's keep an eye out for that.

355
00:16:14.279 --> 00:16:18.179
Well, the best thing about the the inside forests that they do is

356
00:16:18.179 --> 00:16:19.379
there's a lot of overhang.

357
00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:21.659
So we can't see the backgrounds of any of the sets.

358
00:16:21.779 --> 00:16:24.299
Yeah, yeah, we don't see the sky and stuff.

359
00:16:24.360 --> 00:16:26.700
But I think that's that's really good.

360
00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:30.779
And I do like this sort of big vista as well that we get to see.

361
00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:31.620
Like that's pretty awesome.

362
00:16:32.700 --> 00:16:38.639
So what's occurred here is Janeway and Chakotay have been stung by

363
00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:42.059
a pair of insects that for some reason means they can no longer

364
00:16:42.059 --> 00:16:43.799
travel through space.

365
00:16:43.860 --> 00:16:44.340
Is that right?

366
00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:47.399
It means they can't leave this environment.

367
00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:49.559
They can't leave this planet.

368
00:16:49.620 --> 00:16:54.179
Is there any, and now, is there... analogous to anything on this

369
00:16:54.179 --> 00:16:54.419
planet?

370
00:16:54.480 --> 00:16:55.740
I don't care.

371
00:16:55.799 --> 00:16:56.519
Like whatever.

372
00:16:56.580 --> 00:16:59.159
It's they're staying here for space reasons.

373
00:16:59.220 --> 00:17:00.899
It's pretty thin.

374
00:17:01.379 --> 00:17:05.099
And there's clearly a medical cure for it available.

375
00:17:05.160 --> 00:17:06.660
So the doctor, do you know what I mean?

376
00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:07.740
Like, whatever, I don't know.

377
00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:11.519
So they've effectively could have just said sort of ideas now.

378
00:17:11.579 --> 00:17:12.599
Oh, you got the cure for this.

379
00:17:12.660 --> 00:17:13.980
Yeah, great. quick, come up again.

380
00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:16.140
You know, like, we're not leaving without you.

381
00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:18.180
But then we would have no fun at all.

382
00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:19.440
No.

383
00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:20.519
No.

384
00:17:20.519 --> 00:17:25.740
And like, there's a good reason not to, uh, not to kind of consult

385
00:17:25.740 --> 00:17:26.700
the Videans.

386
00:17:26.759 --> 00:17:30.779
And I think that's another thing that's well done here because we

387
00:17:30.779 --> 00:17:34.380
refer, so there are 5 episodes with Vedians.

388
00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:40.140
This is the last time they're in it, and we actually talk about

389
00:17:40.140 --> 00:17:46.019
those interactions with the Videans, and in the conversation with

390
00:17:46.019 --> 00:17:50.039
Harry and the doctor, we refer to a bunch of them.

391
00:17:50.099 --> 00:17:52.920
We get a character from a previous for DN episode back.

392
00:17:52.980 --> 00:17:54.420
Consequences.

393
00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:58.259
Yeah, consequences and continuity.

394
00:17:58.319 --> 00:17:59.279
Exactly.

395
00:17:59.339 --> 00:18:00.299
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

396
00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:03.000
And we talked before about how in a way it doesn't make any

397
00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:03.299
sense.

398
00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:06.000
Like how are they going home and still continuing to encounter

399
00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:06.779
these people.

400
00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:10.619
But I think it's more important that it seems to take place, you

401
00:18:10.619 --> 00:18:13.859
know, that things happen to a group of people and we remember them

402
00:18:13.859 --> 00:18:14.880
and they do as well.

403
00:18:14.940 --> 00:18:19.740
Well, the good thing about the Videans as well is a genuinely good

404
00:18:19.740 --> 00:18:20.220
idea.

405
00:18:20.279 --> 00:18:22.859
They're sort of goouish to look at.

406
00:18:22.980 --> 00:18:26.640
The 1st couple of episodes are where Brandan Bragger said that he

407
00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:31.440
wanted to do like the X-Files in space with Star Trek Voyager.

408
00:18:31.500 --> 00:18:33.779
And I think that might be the closest he got, you know, when he

409
00:18:33.779 --> 00:18:38.519
did the Hannibal Lecter face of Dirst, being put over the Vidian

410
00:18:38.519 --> 00:18:41.339
face or Neelix losing his lungs and things like that.

411
00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:45.420
It was for all, it's ridiculous, but it's kind of horrible as well

412
00:18:45.420 --> 00:18:45.599
you know?

413
00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:49.859
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. nasty B movie sort of crazy sort of way.

414
00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:53.279
Yeah, they're like sort of weird Frankenstein's monsters sort of

415
00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:54.900
thing that sort of construct themselves.

416
00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:59.220
And they're a bit like the Borg only creepy organic zombie Borg

417
00:18:59.220 --> 00:18:59.519
you know.

418
00:18:59.579 --> 00:19:02.220
You know, and it all leads up to deadlock where you have them

419
00:19:02.220 --> 00:19:03.779
storm onto Voyager.

420
00:19:03.779 --> 00:19:06.299
Yeah, shooting everyone down and going, right, we're going to take

421
00:19:06.299 --> 00:19:09.180
his lungs, you know, it's all, it's, that's really great stuff.

422
00:19:09.240 --> 00:19:10.500
So of course you don't want to leave them behind.

423
00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:12.359
Yeah, yeah.

424
00:19:12.420 --> 00:19:13.680
If it's a good idea.

425
00:19:13.740 --> 00:19:15.000
But we stop all of this.

426
00:19:15.059 --> 00:19:19.079
I mean, I think I think you could pretty much this and basics.

427
00:19:19.140 --> 00:19:20.700
This is where it all stops.

428
00:19:20.759 --> 00:19:21.599
Yeah.

429
00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:26.339
Having aliens that we keep coming back to, having characters that

430
00:19:26.339 --> 00:19:28.019
have relationships and progress.

431
00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:33.480
We, we flirt a bit with Jane Wayne 7 and that, that becomes a

432
00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:34.319
massive focus.

433
00:19:34.380 --> 00:19:36.660
But I think that becomes the excuse then.

434
00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:38.220
Like that works really well.

435
00:19:38.279 --> 00:19:39.960
We haven't got a bother with the others, you know?

436
00:19:40.019 --> 00:19:40.920
Yeah.

437
00:19:40.980 --> 00:19:41.940
Yeah.

438
00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:46.799
I mean, you know, Deep Space 9 is on the other end with sort of a

439
00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:49.619
massive semi-regular cast and stuff and this is gesturing at

440
00:19:49.619 --> 00:19:49.799
that.

441
00:19:49.859 --> 00:19:55.019
I mean, we've got Hogan in this episode and we have another crew

442
00:19:55.019 --> 00:19:58.140
member who's in 2 vics and in this episode.

443
00:19:58.200 --> 00:20:02.220
So, you know, there's that sort of little bit of continuity.

444
00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:04.980
But see this, I think, so this is the B plot here.

445
00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:11.759
So the A plot gets introduced before the, um, you know, and we're

446
00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:14.759
on the, we're on the planet, listening to the doctor.

447
00:20:14.819 --> 00:20:17.519
I mean, we do go up to the thing, he's not just a voice in that

448
00:20:17.519 --> 00:20:18.000
scene.

449
00:20:18.059 --> 00:20:19.079
We get to see him on the ship.

450
00:20:19.140 --> 00:20:21.539
Now we're on the ship and we're seeing how everyone's reacting.

451
00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:24.119
Neelix is lying is the worst.

452
00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:28.859
I'm going to tell you now, people, morale will suffer, not having

453
00:20:28.859 --> 00:20:30.180
the captain and 1st officer on.

454
00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:31.380
Fuck me.

455
00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:32.759
No shit, Sherlock.

456
00:20:32.819 --> 00:20:36.720
But what's really weird is Kiss says the doctor has been doing

457
00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:40.920
some drastic research. drastic research.

458
00:20:41.819 --> 00:20:45.240
You remember that conversation we had about the slimers and

459
00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:45.839
equinox?

460
00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:49.440
He's been torturing those bugs, I tell you.

461
00:20:49.500 --> 00:20:51.240
Getting very drastic.

462
00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:56.880
I love 90s trek dialogue.

463
00:20:57.000 --> 00:20:57.660
I really do.

464
00:20:59.339 --> 00:21:03.180
I was just like, oh, wait, just giving Neelix a lion.

465
00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:05.400
They've just thrown in this very obvious line.

466
00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:07.920
Well, yeah. there is a little bit of that.

467
00:21:07.980 --> 00:21:09.839
We do we do get some of that.

468
00:21:09.900 --> 00:21:13.079
I mean, we've already had some of that between Janeway and

469
00:21:13.079 --> 00:21:17.099
Chakotay where Chakotay explains to Janeway what she must surely

470
00:21:17.099 --> 00:21:18.900
know about the Videans.

471
00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:20.819
Like, it's... all the time they do that.

472
00:21:20.940 --> 00:21:22.619
We talked about that before.

473
00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:28.259
And so here is Mr. Boma, this week's Mr. Boma played by the worst

474
00:21:28.259 --> 00:21:32.640
Robert, um, complaining that the Vulcan doesn't have any feelings

475
00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:36.420
or emotions, uh, just like in Galileo 7.

476
00:21:36.539 --> 00:21:39.900
You know, you said Bobo, then you know exactly where my mind was.

477
00:21:39.900 --> 00:21:40.980
You've got a bit excited.

478
00:21:40.980 --> 00:21:44.099
I'm like, why is he like one of those aliens from series 4?

479
00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:47.640
Oh, Harry.

480
00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:49.859
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

481
00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:53.400
The true douchebag of the Star Trek, yeah.

482
00:21:53.880 --> 00:21:58.200
And again, you know, like he could be feeling bereft rather than

483
00:21:58.200 --> 00:21:59.579
just pissy about it.

484
00:21:59.700 --> 00:22:05.039
Like if he was if we were being really properly interesting, um

485
00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:07.799
you know, he could almost write him off.

486
00:22:07.859 --> 00:22:10.559
And then you get an episode like Timeless and you're like, oh

487
00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:10.799
dear.

488
00:22:10.859 --> 00:22:14.700
So we just haven't been bothering with him then. that's right.

489
00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:17.099
Oh, the killing game.

490
00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:19.200
Why does you've said this to me?

491
00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:21.660
Why does all this equipment look so lightweight?

492
00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:23.700
It looks like it doesn't weigh anything, does it?

493
00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:24.720
Yeah, yeah.

494
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:27.599
Well, they had to transport it in trucks out to the location

495
00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:29.039
plastic.

496
00:22:30.180 --> 00:22:34.319
Oh, now this is something that Jerry Taylor does brilliantly with

497
00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:35.039
Janeway.

498
00:22:35.099 --> 00:22:36.240
A love of science.

499
00:22:36.299 --> 00:22:38.819
Yeah, yeah, I love that.

500
00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:42.420
And how Kate Mulgrew plays it because whenever she's an interview

501
00:22:42.420 --> 00:22:44.880
she always talks about loving the fact that she was playing a

502
00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:45.779
passionate scientist.

503
00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:48.180
She really delivers that to the screen.

504
00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:53.279
But look at her.

505
00:22:53.339 --> 00:22:57.539
And look how they're already bonding in this really nice way.

506
00:22:57.660 --> 00:23:05.640
And in a way, the crude, like when Tuvok like contacts them, that's

507
00:23:05.640 --> 00:23:08.220
kind of interrupting and spoiling their fun slightly.

508
00:23:08.940 --> 00:23:11.519
Well, they do it again at the end of the episode.

509
00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:13.500
Well, yeah, yeah, very much at the end.

510
00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:14.759
You know, very dramatic way.

511
00:23:14.819 --> 00:23:16.980
They were about to go, are they off again?

512
00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:20.759
Well, I'd have been tempted to just go, let's just pretend we

513
00:23:20.759 --> 00:23:21.240
didn't hear that.

514
00:23:21.299 --> 00:23:23.220
Yeah, just one more time.

515
00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:24.539
Sorry.

516
00:23:24.839 --> 00:23:27.240
Nathan, I can't hear you.

517
00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:31.980
Oh, at least maybe you should call me Catherine.

518
00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:34.380
Then his reaction.

519
00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:37.740
Like, he's, he's so charming.

520
00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:39.180
He's like the perfect man in this.

521
00:23:39.599 --> 00:23:42.359
See, this scene is not fun to watch.

522
00:23:42.420 --> 00:23:44.700
Like, why is she being horrible?

523
00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:48.779
Why can't she have some sympathy about poor old Lieutenant Swinn

524
00:23:48.779 --> 00:23:49.920
or whatever her name is?

525
00:23:49.980 --> 00:23:53.220
You know, like, this is mean, like, that's not fun.

526
00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:54.059
That's not interesting.

527
00:23:54.180 --> 00:23:56.640
They do this a lot, you know.

528
00:23:56.700 --> 00:23:59.640
I remember a couple of scenes in DS9 where, you know, something

529
00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:03.779
the one where Kira finds out about a mother and Dukat, and she

530
00:24:03.779 --> 00:24:06.299
goes straight to Ops and takes it out on a couple of people

531
00:24:06.299 --> 00:24:07.440
gossiping, you know?

532
00:24:07.500 --> 00:24:08.099
you know?

533
00:24:08.099 --> 00:24:09.180
Yeah.

534
00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:11.880
But I just don't think that's fun, you know, like if they're hurt

535
00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:14.579
if they're feeling bad, show us that. you know, like why are they

536
00:24:14.579 --> 00:24:15.480
just being pretty?

537
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:16.259
some empathy.

538
00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:18.420
You are in an authoritative role on this ship.

539
00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:23.279
And there's supposed to be, we're about to get a speed, aren't

540
00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:23.400
we?

541
00:24:23.460 --> 00:24:27.299
Are we about to get a speech where the thing I remember most is

542
00:24:27.299 --> 00:24:28.680
from that.

543
00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:33.119
The thing the thing I remember most is the bitching at one another

544
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:39.240
you know, like, I really love as well as that scene is taking

545
00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:40.799
place, the camera pulls up.

546
00:24:40.859 --> 00:24:44.279
It's a really lovely moment of direction.

547
00:24:44.339 --> 00:24:46.079
It's Alexander Singer that directs this.

548
00:24:46.140 --> 00:24:49.019
And if you look at the episodes he does, There's some other better

549
00:24:49.019 --> 00:24:49.619
looking ones.

550
00:24:49.740 --> 00:24:52.500
It's also sort of a bit subtle.

551
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:55.980
I noticed the be, we'll talk about it when we get there, but he

552
00:24:55.980 --> 00:25:00.180
he's careful at, you know, deciding who is in frame at any one

553
00:25:00.180 --> 00:25:01.500
sort of particular point.

554
00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:04.500
But that thing where we have the 2 of them looking up into the air

555
00:25:04.500 --> 00:25:06.900
and delivering that speech is wonderful.

556
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:09.180
Look at this dress.

557
00:25:09.240 --> 00:25:10.619
Janeway is wearing a lovely dress.

558
00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:14.279
And she's put watch her hair throughout the episode.

559
00:25:14.339 --> 00:25:15.779
It gets more and more relaxed.

560
00:25:15.900 --> 00:25:19.259
So now she's got her hair sort of down but tied up in a plait.

561
00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:20.880
I love that look.

562
00:25:20.940 --> 00:25:22.980
That's my favourite beer for JJ.

563
00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:25.380
And even Jakotay's not wearing stupid space clothes.

564
00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:26.759
He's just got like a...

565
00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:28.500
A waistcoat.

566
00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:32.339
His is a little bit more stupid space clothes, but she's wearing

567
00:25:32.339 --> 00:25:34.980
something that's really mid-20th century, isn't it?

568
00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:36.359
It's beautiful.

569
00:25:36.420 --> 00:25:38.220
Why can't you tell me?

570
00:25:41.339 --> 00:25:44.160
Do you know when she leaves into him laughing?

571
00:25:44.220 --> 00:25:48.240
Yes, and that's when we get to Dr. Janeway and her reaction.

572
00:25:48.299 --> 00:25:50.400
She should be like, will you fuck off?

573
00:25:50.759 --> 00:25:52.680
We're having a moment.

574
00:25:52.740 --> 00:25:53.339
Look at that.

575
00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:54.779
How are you faring?

576
00:25:54.779 --> 00:25:59.339
And she looks him into the, like she looks right into his eyes and

577
00:25:59.339 --> 00:26:00.480
says we're doing quite well.

578
00:26:00.539 --> 00:26:02.279
Like, it's really good.

579
00:26:02.339 --> 00:26:03.839
Without the dialogue.

580
00:26:03.900 --> 00:26:05.940
It looks like they're about to kiss there.

581
00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:08.279
It's really interesting.

582
00:26:08.339 --> 00:26:10.380
Like there's possibilities already opening.

583
00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:12.779
But look how beautifully she's lit.

584
00:26:12.900 --> 00:26:17.880
Look at him in the background looking at her dozing on her and not

585
00:26:17.880 --> 00:26:18.660
saying anything.

586
00:26:19.019 --> 00:26:21.660
He's so into her, isn't he?

587
00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:22.500
Yeah, yeah.

588
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:24.299
But from from caretaker.

589
00:26:24.359 --> 00:26:25.259
I've been seeing that look.

590
00:26:25.319 --> 00:26:28.440
And then we're up on this ship with these boring assholes.

591
00:26:28.500 --> 00:26:30.119
Let's get back. that's right.

592
00:26:30.180 --> 00:26:32.279
Back down to the planet, please.

593
00:26:32.339 --> 00:26:34.019
We want to get back to the fucking, come on.

594
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:37.019
Who cares about these people?

595
00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:39.240
Although I wouldn't mind looking at Hogan a bit because he's got

596
00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:40.619
beautiful eyes, but just seeing.

597
00:26:40.740 --> 00:26:41.339
Ah, okay.

598
00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:42.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

599
00:26:42.059 --> 00:26:43.200
Wait until you see them.

600
00:26:43.259 --> 00:26:44.099
Shockingly blue.

601
00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:45.900
What is it?

602
00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:47.039
They're drastically blue.

603
00:26:47.099 --> 00:26:49.980
Drastic. drastic research.

604
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:54.299
Look at her.

605
00:26:54.359 --> 00:26:55.440
Look at it.

606
00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:55.980
There we go.

607
00:26:56.039 --> 00:26:58.200
The camera's slowly going up.

608
00:26:58.319 --> 00:26:59.700
And I think we're still on location here.

609
00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:03.960
So I think act one is location and then act 2 is studio.

610
00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:06.119
Oh, no, hang on. hang on.

611
00:27:06.180 --> 00:27:07.440
Is that a location?

612
00:27:07.500 --> 00:27:08.400
No, that's a studio.

613
00:27:08.940 --> 00:27:10.799
Yeah, maybe you're right.

614
00:27:10.859 --> 00:27:11.700
Yeah, yeah, the rock.

615
00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:13.559
That's a polystone rock.

616
00:27:13.619 --> 00:27:18.599
But she, like, you just watch her face all the time.

617
00:27:18.660 --> 00:27:20.220
Look at her in the bath.

618
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:24.000
It's wonderful, isn't it?

619
00:27:24.059 --> 00:27:27.779
I just wish that she hadn't referenced the bath in her personal

620
00:27:27.779 --> 00:27:28.500
log.

621
00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:32.099
Like, it's a little bit too obvious.

622
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:34.440
We do always come back to this bath because, you know, do you

623
00:27:34.440 --> 00:27:36.420
never remember the scene earlier in the season, which is in the

624
00:27:36.420 --> 00:27:38.700
bath and then Q zap's in there with her?

625
00:27:38.759 --> 00:27:39.960
Okay.

626
00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:43.440
But look, look at this.

627
00:27:43.500 --> 00:27:47.160
I love her just talking to him while she's naked in the bath.

628
00:27:47.220 --> 00:27:50.160
Using her hands and a very...

629
00:27:50.220 --> 00:27:51.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

630
00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:52.440
So expressive.

631
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:57.119
Ma, we've got such a hard on for Kate Mulgrew, don't we?

632
00:27:57.180 --> 00:27:58.259
Wonderful.

633
00:27:58.259 --> 00:27:59.039
This?

634
00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:02.220
Oh, and look, we just nearly got we got a little bit of upper tint

635
00:28:02.220 --> 00:28:02.400
there.

636
00:28:02.519 --> 00:28:06.000
Oh, but I think it's more seductive the way she sort of pulls her

637
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:07.500
leg out at the beginning of the thing.

638
00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:08.160
Oh, yeah, yeah.

639
00:28:08.279 --> 00:28:11.700
But so she's in a towel in this scene and they're having the scene

640
00:28:11.700 --> 00:28:13.619
together and they're doing really well.

641
00:28:13.680 --> 00:28:15.180
She's calling for him.

642
00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:19.200
Do you know what, you know, and then she's immediately...

643
00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:22.680
But you watch...

644
00:28:22.740 --> 00:28:24.900
You you watch.

645
00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:28.319
There's a moment where she realises that she's in a towel and

646
00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:32.099
she's talking to Chakotay and it's not in the dialogue or anything

647
00:28:32.099 --> 00:28:34.920
but there's a little reaction where she goes, oh shit, I'm here in

648
00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:37.019
a towel in this scene with Chakotay.

649
00:28:37.079 --> 00:28:37.980
It's really interesting.

650
00:28:38.039 --> 00:28:42.059
Because she constantly tells a story in conventions about this

651
00:28:42.059 --> 00:28:46.200
episode and about, she goes, I'm sorry, rabbits, but there was a

652
00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:49.500
monkey on the planet. far more obsessed with than your body.

653
00:28:51.480 --> 00:28:54.299
But you watch her, you watch her.

654
00:28:54.420 --> 00:28:55.140
You watch it.

655
00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:56.160
It's coming, it's coming.

656
00:28:56.220 --> 00:28:57.839
No, she sort of clutched the tail then.

657
00:28:57.900 --> 00:28:58.859
A bit embarrassed.

658
00:28:58.920 --> 00:28:59.519
No, no, no.

659
00:28:59.579 --> 00:29:02.099
She's, I don't think she's, he's given her a good look.

660
00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:02.759
Look at that.

661
00:29:02.819 --> 00:29:03.839
Look.

662
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:06.119
Then she sort of goes, oh my god, I'm wearing a towel.

663
00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:06.539
It's me.

664
00:29:06.599 --> 00:29:10.140
Yes, and then and then look at her reaction.

665
00:29:10.619 --> 00:29:16.440
But you know, it's so interesting is that, yeah, interesting in a

666
00:29:16.440 --> 00:29:20.759
way this show normally isn't as well. is that he never would have

667
00:29:20.759 --> 00:29:22.140
gone out there unless she was in danger.

668
00:29:22.200 --> 00:29:23.579
He is the perfect gentleman.

669
00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:24.839
Oh, yeah, yeah.

670
00:29:24.900 --> 00:29:26.099
And they were just having that chat.

671
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:27.119
It was really delightful.

672
00:29:27.180 --> 00:29:29.759
Like, they would, he was in the way they were doing his painting.

673
00:29:29.819 --> 00:29:33.059
He was never going to say to her, I'm really happy being here with

674
00:29:33.059 --> 00:29:34.140
you.

675
00:29:34.140 --> 00:29:36.180
And, you know, I want a romance with you.

676
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:38.759
He waits for her to come out of her bed and go, we've got to

677
00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:39.119
address this.

678
00:29:39.180 --> 00:29:43.019
He never, ever forces himself on her if you will forgive the

679
00:29:43.019 --> 00:29:43.319
expression.

680
00:29:43.380 --> 00:29:48.299
In fact, this is as close as it gets because if the subtext is

681
00:29:48.299 --> 00:29:53.339
making a life for ourselves is having a relationship.

682
00:29:53.400 --> 00:29:57.599
But maybe it's not because, but there is something like he does

683
00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:02.160
say twice, I think, you need to start thinking about the

684
00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:04.859
possibility that this might not end.

685
00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:10.200
Um, Yeah, I think about the possibility.

686
00:30:10.259 --> 00:30:12.240
Oh, come on, Catherine.

687
00:30:12.299 --> 00:30:14.700
You know, like, let's just, we're going to be stuck in forever.

688
00:30:14.759 --> 00:30:15.180
That's right.

689
00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:18.839
Well, I remember both Odan and Raal and all of those people...

690
00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:20.160
You're coming with me.

691
00:30:20.220 --> 00:30:20.759
Yeah, that's right.

692
00:30:20.819 --> 00:30:22.380
Can they quit their jobs now?

693
00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:23.220
Would that be all right?

694
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:26.819
You know, like, look how beautiful she is in that shot.

695
00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:29.279
I think he looks very pretty in this.

696
00:30:29.339 --> 00:30:30.180
I do too.

697
00:30:30.299 --> 00:30:32.279
And you see, that's the other thing too.

698
00:30:32.339 --> 00:30:34.980
And I think the thing with Chakotay, the thing that Chakotay

699
00:30:34.980 --> 00:30:43.079
promised was that we would have a quiet, more thoughtful, like

700
00:30:43.079 --> 00:30:44.099
you've had Riker.

701
00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:44.819
Do you know what I mean?

702
00:30:44.940 --> 00:30:45.839
Like he's the bloke.

703
00:30:45.900 --> 00:30:47.220
He's an all-American guy.

704
00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:49.200
Well, then we had Kira, so we went in the other direction.

705
00:30:49.319 --> 00:30:53.099
Yeah, and now we have a man who's a little bit more quiet, who

706
00:30:53.099 --> 00:30:58.019
works as a romantic lead because he's in touch with his feelings

707
00:30:58.019 --> 00:30:59.460
and he's wise.

708
00:30:59.460 --> 00:31:02.819
And some of it's a sort of cheesy and slightly embarrassing Native

709
00:31:02.819 --> 00:31:03.539
American thing.

710
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:05.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

711
00:31:05.160 --> 00:31:08.640
Trouble is, is he's quiet later on is because I don't give him

712
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:09.119
anything to do.

713
00:31:09.180 --> 00:31:12.960
No that's right. because she's being subtle and thoughtful and

714
00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:13.740
gentle.

715
00:31:13.799 --> 00:31:15.299
Just because he doesn't have any lines.

716
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:18.299
We cheered in one episode, we did.

717
00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:19.859
We cheered when he got a line.

718
00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:20.819
I went, oh, wow.

719
00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:22.140
Robert Belcher.

720
00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:24.240
But it meant the same thing with Tuvark.

721
00:31:24.299 --> 00:31:27.240
I mean, he's really, really good.

722
00:31:27.299 --> 00:31:31.740
And you see, the other beat that the other Galileo 7 beat that we

723
00:31:31.740 --> 00:31:37.019
hit here is once Suvok decides that he's going to do what they

724
00:31:37.019 --> 00:31:37.500
want.

725
00:31:37.980 --> 00:31:40.920
He's absolutely all in.

726
00:31:40.980 --> 00:31:44.940
And the 1st thing he says is this is my decision and none of you

727
00:31:44.940 --> 00:31:46.140
are going to get in trouble for it.

728
00:31:46.200 --> 00:31:48.000
And I think all of that stuff.

729
00:31:48.059 --> 00:31:51.299
You know, the way that Spock puts himself in danger by going out

730
00:31:51.299 --> 00:31:52.740
to bury what's his face.

731
00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:55.440
You know, it's the same thing.

732
00:31:55.500 --> 00:31:56.460
We're doing it again.

733
00:31:56.519 --> 00:31:59.400
It's exactly the same sort of thinking.

734
00:31:59.460 --> 00:32:01.559
Yeah, do you remember when he went down on the planet in prime

735
00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:04.799
factors to steal the technology against the prime director?

736
00:32:04.859 --> 00:32:08.160
Because Janeway, he didn't want her to have to do it.

737
00:32:08.220 --> 00:32:09.180
Yeah.

738
00:32:09.180 --> 00:32:09.660
You know.

739
00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:12.420
He is very much accountable for his own actions.

740
00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:13.380
Yeah.

741
00:32:13.619 --> 00:32:15.420
But yes, you're right.

742
00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:17.519
Harry just can't do anger.

743
00:32:17.579 --> 00:32:19.440
And like, why can't he be upset?

744
00:32:19.500 --> 00:32:20.940
Why can't they make him be upset?

745
00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:21.839
He's a kid.

746
00:32:21.900 --> 00:32:24.000
You know, he looked up to Janeway.

747
00:32:24.059 --> 00:32:28.259
There was a real kind of, you know, like his mum is not there.

748
00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:31.859
Like all of that stuff is there and could potentially be

749
00:32:31.859 --> 00:32:32.279
interesting.

750
00:32:32.339 --> 00:32:34.380
They set up interesting relationships.

751
00:32:34.440 --> 00:32:37.019
Very telling, you know, that when we finally catch up with Harry

752
00:32:37.019 --> 00:32:39.599
Kim's mother in series four.

753
00:32:39.660 --> 00:32:42.839
Um, and she goes, why aren't you?

754
00:32:42.900 --> 00:32:43.859
why are you still an ensign?

755
00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:45.960
Right. get Captain Janeway on the phone.

756
00:32:46.019 --> 00:32:47.039
I'm going to talk to her now.

757
00:32:47.099 --> 00:32:51.059
And you're like, when we all knew it. you know, we knew you had a

758
00:32:51.059 --> 00:32:52.019
daughter hearing, mother.

759
00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:55.920
No wonder he, you know, was so under Jayway's for all.

760
00:32:57.359 --> 00:33:00.240
This is tantamount to mutiny, you know.

761
00:33:00.299 --> 00:33:03.539
Yeah, no, it is literally weird. watching Equinox all over again.

762
00:33:03.599 --> 00:33:05.039
Yeah.

763
00:33:05.099 --> 00:33:05.819
Yeah, yeah.

764
00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:07.559
And I don't know.

765
00:33:07.619 --> 00:33:09.599
I mean, look at home as always.

766
00:33:09.660 --> 00:33:11.640
Sorry to disrupt you, but okay, he's not.

767
00:33:11.640 --> 00:33:12.900
Okay, because this is a boring scene.

768
00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:13.859
Yeah, yeah.

769
00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:15.480
Is he a beta Zed?

770
00:33:15.539 --> 00:33:20.880
It's all that sort of... lens that they gave to Marina Service.

771
00:33:20.940 --> 00:33:22.619
I think I think it is just his eyes.

772
00:33:22.619 --> 00:33:26.099
On a complete side note, you know, I will be meeting Marina Circus

773
00:33:26.099 --> 00:33:28.079
next month at LLC.

774
00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:29.640
Oh, really?

775
00:33:29.700 --> 00:33:30.660
That's right.

776
00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:34.019
I'm going to ask her to do a welcome to Untitled Star Trek intro

777
00:33:34.019 --> 00:33:34.380
for us.

778
00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:35.759
Oh, brilliant.

779
00:33:35.819 --> 00:33:36.119
Do that.

780
00:33:36.180 --> 00:33:37.920
She'll be going.

781
00:33:37.980 --> 00:33:40.680
I'm glad that Neelix Neelix has brought vegetables to the table

782
00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:43.140
for this conspiracy scene.

783
00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:45.359
It's getting really into it too.

784
00:33:45.420 --> 00:33:49.200
His 2 character piece is one Easter morale offside, he's had a

785
00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:50.160
line about that too.

786
00:33:50.220 --> 00:33:51.539
He's the cook.

787
00:33:51.539 --> 00:33:52.799
He's got 2 vegetables in his hands.

788
00:33:52.859 --> 00:33:53.400
There you go.

789
00:33:53.460 --> 00:33:57.900
He was giving it some proper Ethan Phillips kind of excitement

790
00:33:57.900 --> 00:33:59.279
sitcom acting there though.

791
00:33:59.339 --> 00:34:02.460
I would have had more respect for Harry Kim.

792
00:34:02.519 --> 00:34:06.539
If he'd have broken down here and said, I just can't imagine this

793
00:34:06.539 --> 00:34:07.440
voyage without...

794
00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:09.719
Oh, it would have been much more interesting.

795
00:34:09.780 --> 00:34:11.039
So much more interesting.

796
00:34:11.099 --> 00:34:13.860
Oh, I do like how tube up set is lit.

797
00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:14.699
It's bedroom.

798
00:34:14.760 --> 00:34:15.119
Yeah.

799
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:17.340
And very dark with that purple light.

800
00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:17.699
Yeah.

801
00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:20.760
They use that extremely well meld, you know, where you're sitting

802
00:34:20.760 --> 00:34:21.360
there in the dark.

803
00:34:21.420 --> 00:34:23.400
Try not to be a serial killer.

804
00:34:23.460 --> 00:34:24.719
Oh, okay.

805
00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:30.000
Now that's when he does some serious acting.

806
00:34:30.059 --> 00:34:31.380
Wait till we get to that one.

807
00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:36.900
So this, I mean, this is them talking about the recent events of

808
00:34:36.900 --> 00:34:40.500
series 2, you know, like, and...

809
00:34:41.400 --> 00:34:46.860
And it works, you know, like they do have these bargaining chips.

810
00:34:46.920 --> 00:34:49.260
We had the, what's that episode called?

811
00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:50.280
B'lana Split.

812
00:34:50.340 --> 00:34:51.539
Faces?

813
00:34:54.059 --> 00:35:00.659
Like we had that and we mentioned that here, you know, um, uh, and

814
00:35:00.659 --> 00:35:03.780
we, I can't remember what the other thing is, uh, but we have some

815
00:35:03.780 --> 00:35:05.280
hold on the Videans.

816
00:35:05.340 --> 00:35:06.000
Oh, you know.

817
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:07.920
She's the 1st one, I think.

818
00:35:07.980 --> 00:35:10.679
Yeah, that's their 1st episode, isn't it?

819
00:35:10.739 --> 00:35:11.099
Yeah.

820
00:35:11.159 --> 00:35:11.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

821
00:35:11.820 --> 00:35:15.000
But I think, you know, you would be hard pressed to find a single

822
00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:19.380
episode in series 3 that refers to a previous episode in series

823
00:35:19.380 --> 00:35:19.860
three.

824
00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:21.780
They just went standalone.

825
00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:22.980
They just went moving the other week.

826
00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:23.880
And you know what?

827
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:26.639
It's hitting me, someone from work, some of them don't, but it's

828
00:35:26.639 --> 00:35:28.260
has none of the substance of this.

829
00:35:28.500 --> 00:35:32.460
But you can already see the right setting in here, can't you?

830
00:35:32.519 --> 00:35:36.599
Where they have a really good romance subplot that's working very

831
00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:41.880
well and they sabotage it because they don't want to have any big

832
00:35:41.880 --> 00:35:43.019
consequences.

833
00:35:43.079 --> 00:35:45.420
And there's always this question with Voyager.

834
00:35:45.480 --> 00:35:49.019
Do you want them to do the big thing knowing that they're going to

835
00:35:49.019 --> 00:35:51.480
walk it back and it's not going to mean anything at the end of the

836
00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:51.719
episode?

837
00:35:51.780 --> 00:35:55.139
Yes, because at least we've got something. at least we get.

838
00:35:55.199 --> 00:35:55.860
Yes, exactly right.

839
00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:58.619
Or do we just do boring things that aren't going to have any

840
00:35:58.619 --> 00:36:01.260
effect on any characters so we can just wandering potentially for

841
00:36:01.260 --> 00:36:02.460
the entire years?

842
00:36:02.519 --> 00:36:04.019
We have nothing to talk about at all.

843
00:36:04.559 --> 00:36:08.639
Those moments where there's glimmers of hope, we can cling on to

844
00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:08.880
them.

845
00:36:08.940 --> 00:36:10.199
Yeah.

846
00:36:10.260 --> 00:36:11.039
Yeah.

847
00:36:11.219 --> 00:36:13.019
Yeah, boring.

848
00:36:13.079 --> 00:36:13.980
Let's get back to the planet.

849
00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:14.340
Come on.

850
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:17.519
Yeah, let's get this boring, boring B plot.

851
00:36:17.579 --> 00:36:19.800
So he's doing headboards for their beds.

852
00:36:19.860 --> 00:36:20.699
Oh man.

853
00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:23.519
You know, it does remind me of my mark a bit, you know.

854
00:36:23.579 --> 00:36:26.340
It's all sort of suggest things that irritate me about the house.

855
00:36:26.340 --> 00:36:29.519
And then you'll find over the next couple of days they've been

856
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:30.480
magically fixed. yeah.

857
00:36:30.539 --> 00:36:31.800
Yeah, wow.

858
00:36:32.099 --> 00:36:34.800
That's what you know, you've got...

859
00:36:34.860 --> 00:36:36.059
Look, he's noticed.

860
00:36:36.119 --> 00:36:37.019
Oh my god.

861
00:36:37.019 --> 00:36:38.460
He's and look at her dress.

862
00:36:38.519 --> 00:36:42.360
He's looking more and more like Miss Katie from Calamity Jamie in

863
00:36:42.360 --> 00:36:43.380
every single scene.

864
00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:45.659
That's a beautiful dress.

865
00:36:45.780 --> 00:36:48.900
I just love that they don't give her space clothes.

866
00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:50.639
Yeah, do you know what?

867
00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:54.179
Obviously, she has to wear a Starfleet uniform.

868
00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:56.699
It is a very masculine uniform, isn't it?

869
00:36:56.760 --> 00:36:58.500
It's a body suit, effectively.

870
00:36:58.559 --> 00:37:01.920
Well, it's not, though, because it you get to see the shape of her

871
00:37:01.920 --> 00:37:02.219
body.

872
00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:04.079
You know, she's not like wearing herself.

873
00:37:04.139 --> 00:37:06.420
She looks so much more beautiful in a dress.

874
00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:08.880
I don't want to be sexist, but she does.

875
00:37:08.940 --> 00:37:11.340
No, no, the dress is beautiful.

876
00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:14.099
Like she, I just think it's such a great choice.

877
00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:19.380
They could have, you know, made her wear a Spangly Leotard, like

878
00:37:19.380 --> 00:37:23.039
like Beverly and Deanna in the price.

879
00:37:23.099 --> 00:37:26.519
And it's nice to see now that Chakotay is just wearing a sort of

880
00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:30.360
array of shirts where he can have the button open so low that all

881
00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:31.260
of his chest is showing.

882
00:37:31.320 --> 00:37:32.820
Yeah, yeah.

883
00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:33.420
Look.

884
00:37:33.539 --> 00:37:35.699
I'm all man, Janeway.

885
00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:38.940
Yeah, I'm not sure about that belt, though.

886
00:37:40.800 --> 00:37:44.460
It does accentuate his time, Melissa, doesn't it?

887
00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:47.460
And he doesn't have that much of a time.

888
00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:50.400
I mean, he's such a, he's a beefy, isn't he?

889
00:37:50.940 --> 00:37:53.940
The definition of beef, I would say.

890
00:37:54.300 --> 00:37:57.840
Oh, dear, this is very studio set this.

891
00:37:57.900 --> 00:37:58.559
Oh, it's all right.

892
00:37:58.679 --> 00:38:00.539
No, no, no, but we can't see the backdrop.

893
00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:02.099
So I'm all right with it.

894
00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:03.599
Oh, no.

895
00:38:03.659 --> 00:38:06.179
Actually, this is the one bit of direction I thought was very lame

896
00:38:06.179 --> 00:38:10.380
when you get the, well, the sky back will drop you've got on the

897
00:38:10.380 --> 00:38:11.099
Zoom call right now.

898
00:38:11.880 --> 00:38:15.239
Emerging through the studio trees, you know?

899
00:38:16.380 --> 00:38:18.719
That's very Star Trek.

900
00:38:18.780 --> 00:38:22.619
And she has to, I mean, it would be a struggle for any actor to

901
00:38:22.619 --> 00:38:25.739
talk to a monkey and go, what's happening to the sky?

902
00:38:25.800 --> 00:38:29.880
You know, like, that's not happening. we already there?

903
00:38:29.940 --> 00:38:31.559
Oh, I thought that was this beer.

904
00:38:31.619 --> 00:38:33.000
Yeah, the monkey comes along that.

905
00:38:33.059 --> 00:38:36.360
The monkey comes along while she's checking out the storm.

906
00:38:36.420 --> 00:38:37.559
Yeah.

907
00:38:37.679 --> 00:38:41.280
But it's just, it's just that that's the point at which she says

908
00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:44.639
uh, oh yeah, we're about halfway through.

909
00:38:44.699 --> 00:38:46.380
I do like this though as well.

910
00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:50.099
She's still seeking out new lives and new civilisations, even on

911
00:38:50.099 --> 00:38:50.940
this planet.

912
00:38:51.719 --> 00:38:57.840
Oh my god, the funniest story was Michael Pillar is like, no, we're

913
00:38:57.840 --> 00:38:59.940
not having a monkey in star.

914
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:01.679
That's nowhere near exotic enough.

915
00:39:01.739 --> 00:39:04.079
And then someone on the production crew showed him a picture of

916
00:39:04.079 --> 00:39:06.659
this and he went, oh, it works for me. book it.

917
00:39:07.019 --> 00:39:11.039
That's why instead of having someone in a suit, which might have

918
00:39:11.039 --> 00:39:14.219
been the alternative, and we saw how that worked in the Galileo

919
00:39:14.219 --> 00:39:14.579
7.

920
00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:16.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

921
00:39:16.260 --> 00:39:17.699
Or the Gumato.

922
00:39:18.599 --> 00:39:21.119
No, I mean, I think that's perfect.

923
00:39:21.179 --> 00:39:22.980
That's cute, having an actual apple.

924
00:39:23.099 --> 00:39:24.960
Can you imagine if you're a bit of man in a monkey suit?

925
00:39:25.139 --> 00:39:27.360
No, you couldn't have done it.

926
00:39:27.420 --> 00:39:29.699
If you're suggesting I get out of here.

927
00:39:29.820 --> 00:39:30.599
I agree.

928
00:39:30.659 --> 00:39:33.239
I mean this is hard stuff to deliver to yourself.

929
00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:39.780
But watch how now this is literally like a Mills and Boone book

930
00:39:39.780 --> 00:39:40.079
now.

931
00:39:40.139 --> 00:39:43.800
He comes through going, Catherine, through the storm.

932
00:39:43.860 --> 00:39:44.340
Oh, yeah.

933
00:39:44.340 --> 00:39:46.260
That's right.

934
00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:52.380
It's like some dreadful old woman reading a book, you know, getting

935
00:39:52.380 --> 00:39:54.900
all excited about the man coming to save the woman.

936
00:39:54.960 --> 00:39:57.179
But I mean, I love this.

937
00:39:57.239 --> 00:40:01.320
I mean, this, like, I like a romance, even a heterosexual romance

938
00:40:01.320 --> 00:40:05.099
and this, I think, is working as a romance properly.

939
00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:12.360
Like he's got his arm around her, like he really is kind of the

940
00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:13.380
perfect man, I think.

941
00:40:13.500 --> 00:40:15.599
He's not pushing it.

942
00:40:15.659 --> 00:40:18.780
The astonishing thing is, you said his works as a romance, right?

943
00:40:18.840 --> 00:40:19.079
Yeah.

944
00:40:19.139 --> 00:40:22.380
What are the 2 reasons that romance in Star Trek usually don't

945
00:40:22.380 --> 00:40:22.559
work?

946
00:40:22.619 --> 00:40:25.559
The writing and the performance. and they're both right and

947
00:40:25.559 --> 00:40:27.239
they're getting both right here.

948
00:40:27.300 --> 00:40:29.219
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

949
00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:29.699
Yeah.

950
00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:31.199
I think so.

951
00:40:31.260 --> 00:40:34.920
But also, like the writing in the sense of the men are always just

952
00:40:34.920 --> 00:40:35.820
fucking horrible.

953
00:40:35.880 --> 00:40:39.300
And we haven't had one of the romances in Star Trek, the Next

954
00:40:39.300 --> 00:40:42.960
Generation, where it's a male regular with a female guest star.

955
00:40:43.019 --> 00:40:44.519
It's always been the other way around.

956
00:40:44.579 --> 00:40:46.920
Do you remember when they tried it with Cisco?

957
00:40:46.920 --> 00:40:50.699
Just for a 2nd where Gastier says, she's thinking of moving on the

958
00:40:50.699 --> 00:40:53.039
station and he goes, oh, it's a big step.

959
00:40:53.099 --> 00:40:56.099
And she goes, oh, what's that supposed to mean?

960
00:40:56.159 --> 00:41:00.420
She goes, she goes, you're afraid of commitment, you are.

961
00:41:00.539 --> 00:41:03.300
She totally calls him out straight away.

962
00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:05.820
And then they put pay to that very quickly.

963
00:41:05.880 --> 00:41:10.619
So can we talk about how kind of shit this scene is?

964
00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:16.139
But she comes into the door.

965
00:41:16.199 --> 00:41:18.599
She comes in and says, oh, hi, Tuvok.

966
00:41:18.659 --> 00:41:20.579
I just wanted to talk to you about my father.

967
00:41:20.639 --> 00:41:21.900
You go, really?

968
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:24.719
I'm running the ship, woman.

969
00:41:24.780 --> 00:41:25.139
Come on.

970
00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:26.699
That's it.

971
00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:29.340
Why are we having a conversation about your father?

972
00:41:29.579 --> 00:41:31.019
Why don't you wait for one of those subtets?

973
00:41:31.079 --> 00:41:35.340
When I'm in Neelix's restaurant playing my game, that would be the

974
00:41:35.340 --> 00:41:36.059
perfect one.

975
00:41:36.659 --> 00:41:38.340
Calto.

976
00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:43.019
But I like the fact that they have an established, almost like a

977
00:41:43.019 --> 00:41:44.639
parental child relationship.

978
00:41:44.699 --> 00:41:48.599
And she is kind of exploiting that to get her point across.

979
00:41:49.260 --> 00:41:55.500
Not in any sort of insidious way, but like, She's like, you know

980
00:41:55.500 --> 00:41:57.840
you need to understand, this is the effect it's having on people.

981
00:41:57.900 --> 00:42:00.000
I'm not sure we'll be able to come back from this.

982
00:42:00.780 --> 00:42:06.659
But, I mean, I'm just never convinced by any of this, and I think

983
00:42:06.659 --> 00:42:14.099
it's partly that Tuvok doesn't sell his position very strongly, you

984
00:42:14.099 --> 00:42:16.860
know, like, and they're all going, oh, we're we human beings with

985
00:42:16.860 --> 00:42:19.079
real feelings and stuff and...

986
00:42:19.079 --> 00:42:21.000
It just feels like he's sticking his heels in.

987
00:42:21.059 --> 00:42:21.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

988
00:42:22.199 --> 00:42:22.739
Yeah.

989
00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:26.940
Like, and look, they've shoved Neelix to the front in case there's

990
00:42:26.940 --> 00:42:27.239
any trouble.

991
00:42:27.300 --> 00:42:29.340
Why is he covering his stomach?

992
00:42:29.400 --> 00:42:30.119
Like that.

993
00:42:30.179 --> 00:42:31.320
Why is he standing like that?

994
00:42:31.980 --> 00:42:35.280
I'm not sure what my tailor's done this week, but I'm going to

995
00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:36.059
hold my hands here.

996
00:42:36.780 --> 00:42:39.119
Oh dear, oh dear.

997
00:42:39.179 --> 00:42:40.500
How many people are on the bridge?

998
00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:41.519
Let's have a look.

999
00:42:41.579 --> 00:42:44.280
Yeah, there's quite a few extras in some of these scenes.

1000
00:42:44.340 --> 00:42:45.780
There are a lot of people...

1001
00:42:45.780 --> 00:42:48.000
Black lady there in the middle.

1002
00:42:48.059 --> 00:42:49.800
She's in quite a few Voyager episodes.

1003
00:42:49.860 --> 00:42:53.340
I seem to remember her face propping up in a lot of gorgeous.

1004
00:42:53.400 --> 00:42:53.639
Yeah.

1005
00:42:53.699 --> 00:42:55.139
So I think they were sort of cool.

1006
00:42:55.199 --> 00:42:56.099
I mean it was a good idea.

1007
00:42:56.159 --> 00:42:58.199
Call on the same act as one given work too.

1008
00:42:58.260 --> 00:43:00.599
It's supposed to be the same people on the ship.

1009
00:43:02.219 --> 00:43:04.079
Yeah, yeah.

1010
00:43:04.199 --> 00:43:07.019
There's an Asian woman right at the back of the set.

1011
00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:09.179
I'm not sure what she's doing.

1012
00:43:09.239 --> 00:43:10.079
Did you see her there?

1013
00:43:10.199 --> 00:43:12.119
She was sort of leaning against the console.

1014
00:43:12.179 --> 00:43:14.280
Well, she might have some buttons to press back there.

1015
00:43:14.340 --> 00:43:16.019
She's pressing them now.

1016
00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:16.500
Well done.

1017
00:43:19.559 --> 00:43:22.860
And now that they're now that they're actually doing the action

1018
00:43:22.860 --> 00:43:25.079
now that this part of the plot, which I thought didn't really

1019
00:43:25.079 --> 00:43:30.119
quite work is over, then I think that the scenes on the ship are

1020
00:43:30.119 --> 00:43:30.840
actually pretty good.

1021
00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:32.280
Don't you?

1022
00:43:32.340 --> 00:43:36.000
Like, I think that they managed to do a bit of Voyager action and

1023
00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:37.260
stuff in a sort of...

1024
00:43:37.260 --> 00:43:40.739
Yeah, I think she was... as a very competent captain in those

1025
00:43:40.739 --> 00:43:41.699
bits.

1026
00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:43.860
In fact, I was getting Saru vibes from him.

1027
00:43:44.039 --> 00:43:46.739
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

1028
00:43:46.800 --> 00:43:48.960
Oh, Janeway's appalled.

1029
00:43:49.019 --> 00:43:51.059
All of her scientific equipment's being smashed.

1030
00:43:51.119 --> 00:43:54.719
We had to get to a position where she couldn't experiment anymore

1031
00:43:54.719 --> 00:43:55.199
though, didn't we?

1032
00:43:55.260 --> 00:43:55.619
Yeah.

1033
00:43:55.679 --> 00:43:58.320
But he was holding her.

1034
00:43:58.380 --> 00:43:59.219
Do you know what I mean?

1035
00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:00.900
without being a creep again.

1036
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:05.280
They were together under the table and it, you know, trying to

1037
00:44:05.280 --> 00:44:07.980
write out the storm together and he had his arms around her, but

1038
00:44:07.980 --> 00:44:10.079
in an absolutely non-greepy way.

1039
00:44:10.139 --> 00:44:12.840
You should notice that camera sweep over the cabin there and then

1040
00:44:12.840 --> 00:44:14.280
fall round to the door.

1041
00:44:14.519 --> 00:44:18.300
I know I point these things out in on these strokes when this

1042
00:44:18.300 --> 00:44:19.679
direction is a bit more interesting.

1043
00:44:19.739 --> 00:44:21.179
Oh I love this.

1044
00:44:21.239 --> 00:44:23.039
Oh, she's so sad.

1045
00:44:23.099 --> 00:44:24.420
She's really sad, isn't she?

1046
00:44:25.860 --> 00:44:28.260
None of it's salvageable.

1047
00:44:28.739 --> 00:44:31.980
And she sort of breaks her voice a little bit.

1048
00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:33.420
Yes, I know, it's wonderful.

1049
00:44:33.480 --> 00:44:37.260
Which is normally sort of so steadfast, I'm sure.

1050
00:44:37.500 --> 00:44:39.420
But look at this.

1051
00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:39.840
Look.

1052
00:44:42.960 --> 00:44:44.760
And look, just a moment.

1053
00:44:44.820 --> 00:44:47.820
There's a little moment where her forehead crinkles and there's

1054
00:44:47.820 --> 00:44:49.559
sort of there's sadness there.

1055
00:44:49.619 --> 00:44:51.599
Like she's not being bitchy.

1056
00:44:51.659 --> 00:44:53.159
She's being. do you know what I mean?

1057
00:44:53.219 --> 00:44:55.800
It's not like, oh, I guess that's one way of not, do you know what

1058
00:44:55.800 --> 00:44:55.980
I mean?

1059
00:44:56.039 --> 00:44:57.900
It's like, she's really properly saying.

1060
00:44:57.960 --> 00:45:04.559
She thinks she's so good as we are exploring Voyager. on Star Trek

1061
00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:04.920
Project.

1062
00:45:04.980 --> 00:45:08.519
She is the best thing about this show.

1063
00:45:08.579 --> 00:45:11.579
I think Jerry Ryan's a 2nd and she's quite close.

1064
00:45:11.639 --> 00:45:12.780
Ryan's very good.

1065
00:45:12.840 --> 00:45:17.039
But I think Mulgrew's there for the 7 years and, you know, despite

1066
00:45:17.039 --> 00:45:18.900
some very inconsistent writing.

1067
00:45:18.960 --> 00:45:21.360
I mean, we did Xbox a couple of weeks ago where she didn't know

1068
00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:21.960
what she was doing.

1069
00:45:22.380 --> 00:45:24.900
She still managed to deliver it though.

1070
00:45:25.019 --> 00:45:26.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1071
00:45:26.880 --> 00:45:28.980
No, she's fabulously interesting to watch.

1072
00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:29.760
She's really good.

1073
00:45:29.820 --> 00:45:33.719
To show that she's a woman, she's got sort of all the scabby

1074
00:45:33.719 --> 00:45:34.380
makeup on.

1075
00:45:34.440 --> 00:45:36.000
But she's got a little bit of hair at the back.

1076
00:45:38.579 --> 00:45:41.159
A touch of femininity about her.

1077
00:45:41.219 --> 00:45:43.559
No, she's a she's a hot Videan.

1078
00:45:43.619 --> 00:45:44.699
Oh, is she?

1079
00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:46.019
Yeah, yeah.

1080
00:45:46.079 --> 00:45:47.340
That's as hard as I care.

1081
00:45:47.400 --> 00:45:49.619
I'll do pretty well there, then, wouldn't I?

1082
00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:50.820
That's it.

1083
00:45:51.059 --> 00:45:53.400
We'd have our pick of the man.

1084
00:45:56.579 --> 00:46:00.539
No, they'll be, oh, there's up for our hearts and minds.

1085
00:46:03.599 --> 00:46:05.519
Oh, this was a day.

1086
00:46:06.480 --> 00:46:08.280
That's it right.

1087
00:46:08.340 --> 00:46:09.239
So she's getting in now.

1088
00:46:09.300 --> 00:46:10.199
She getting her hands doing it.

1089
00:46:10.260 --> 00:46:11.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

1090
00:46:11.699 --> 00:46:14.039
She's got to see her being physical because in a minute she needs

1091
00:46:14.039 --> 00:46:14.699
a massage.

1092
00:46:14.760 --> 00:46:20.219
And the other thing which I think is like super hilarious is that

1093
00:46:20.219 --> 00:46:21.179
what is it?

1094
00:46:21.300 --> 00:46:26.159
Chakotay's parents made him build a log cabin because they thought

1095
00:46:26.159 --> 00:46:29.039
that he should learn how to do log cabins.

1096
00:46:29.099 --> 00:46:32.519
And her parents said that she should do gardening because they

1097
00:46:32.519 --> 00:46:34.320
thought she should be able to do gardening.

1098
00:46:34.440 --> 00:46:37.320
And you kind of go, whose parents behave like that?

1099
00:46:37.380 --> 00:46:38.880
What's happening?

1100
00:46:38.940 --> 00:46:41.519
But the line where she says I was always a child of the 24th

1101
00:46:41.519 --> 00:46:41.880
century.

1102
00:46:41.940 --> 00:46:44.940
I love the camping trip.

1103
00:46:45.900 --> 00:46:47.820
His background is nature, isn't it?

1104
00:46:47.880 --> 00:46:49.860
So that contrast is lovely.

1105
00:46:49.920 --> 00:46:52.079
But look at his reaction.

1106
00:46:52.139 --> 00:46:53.639
Look at his reaction.

1107
00:46:53.639 --> 00:46:54.900
And look at her.

1108
00:46:55.019 --> 00:46:55.920
She's stricken.

1109
00:46:55.980 --> 00:46:58.860
Like when he says, this is the 1st time you've said anything

1110
00:46:58.860 --> 00:47:00.539
positive about living here.

1111
00:47:00.539 --> 00:47:04.019
And the look on her face where she goes, oh my god, have I been

1112
00:47:04.019 --> 00:47:04.500
like that?

1113
00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:05.579
Do you know what I mean?

1114
00:47:05.639 --> 00:47:08.219
Like it's, it's not in the script. so thoughtful.

1115
00:47:08.280 --> 00:47:09.960
She's it's pretty...

1116
00:47:10.079 --> 00:47:13.800
From this point on, she just behaves as if they are going to stay

1117
00:47:13.800 --> 00:47:14.219
here.

1118
00:47:14.280 --> 00:47:16.860
So she's relaxed into the environment.

1119
00:47:16.920 --> 00:47:17.940
Yeah, yeah.

1120
00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:21.119
And she's not sold on the relationship either.

1121
00:47:21.179 --> 00:47:22.079
Do you know what I mean?

1122
00:47:22.139 --> 00:47:23.400
Like, like...

1123
00:47:23.400 --> 00:47:24.719
I love it. wishing that happens.

1124
00:47:24.780 --> 00:47:28.860
Slumped over the desk going, oh, my nuts have gotten nuts.

1125
00:47:29.699 --> 00:47:31.199
And she's laughing, though?

1126
00:47:31.260 --> 00:47:33.239
Like she's laughing at herself.

1127
00:47:33.300 --> 00:47:35.400
You know, it does show you, actually, how this can work, because

1128
00:47:35.400 --> 00:47:38.159
do you remember when we saw this previously in Looking for Pamak

1129
00:47:38.159 --> 00:47:39.840
and all the wrong praises when...

1130
00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:40.380
Look at her look.

1131
00:47:40.380 --> 00:47:43.199
O'Brien was giving Kira a massage.

1132
00:47:43.260 --> 00:47:43.739
Do remember that?

1133
00:47:43.800 --> 00:47:47.219
Yeah, yeah, yeah And we went and we just went, ooh, ooh.

1134
00:47:47.280 --> 00:47:48.059
Where was this time?

1135
00:47:48.119 --> 00:47:49.199
It's working.

1136
00:47:49.199 --> 00:47:51.119
It works as a sexy massage.

1137
00:47:52.019 --> 00:47:54.960
Have you ever had that moment in your life, you know?

1138
00:47:55.019 --> 00:47:59.219
I did my one of my friend's husbands gave me a massage.

1139
00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:00.960
This is going back 15 years or so now.

1140
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:05.699
And we had a moment and we never spoke about it ever.

1141
00:48:07.619 --> 00:48:09.960
He was massaging me.

1142
00:48:10.019 --> 00:48:10.860
I was really enjoying it.

1143
00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:13.199
He paused and then that was that.

1144
00:48:13.260 --> 00:48:14.639
I was like, okay, yeah, the stuff.

1145
00:48:14.699 --> 00:48:19.260
Look at how he grabs her hair and just moves it out of the way. in

1146
00:48:19.260 --> 00:48:21.960
that tender way and her reaction to it as well.

1147
00:48:22.019 --> 00:48:23.760
I think that's beautiful.

1148
00:48:23.820 --> 00:48:27.119
As far as 90s, Trek goes, this is sex. basically.

1149
00:48:27.239 --> 00:48:29.880
No, because I don't think they have sex yet.

1150
00:48:29.940 --> 00:48:32.579
I think there's a very clear point in the episode where they're

1151
00:48:32.579 --> 00:48:33.300
supposed to have sex.

1152
00:48:33.360 --> 00:48:37.199
I think that this is Chakotay, his one faux pas in this

1153
00:48:37.199 --> 00:48:37.980
relationship.

1154
00:48:38.099 --> 00:48:39.059
What about his mother?

1155
00:48:39.059 --> 00:48:42.960
Talking about his mother while he's massaging it. just like, please

1156
00:48:42.960 --> 00:48:44.820
you know, where did that end up?

1157
00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:46.440
I know, I know.

1158
00:48:46.500 --> 00:48:50.219
But look at that. loving it, look.

1159
00:48:50.280 --> 00:48:51.420
Yeah, yeah.

1160
00:48:51.480 --> 00:48:54.900
But look at her like she realises as well.

1161
00:48:56.699 --> 00:49:02.940
I actually really like when how she says, like the, I've got to go

1162
00:49:02.940 --> 00:49:03.300
to bed.

1163
00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:08.340
Like in the awkwardness of this, and then I'm going to bed now, and

1164
00:49:08.340 --> 00:49:09.539
then she pulls the sort of face.

1165
00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:10.199
Do you know what I mean?

1166
00:49:10.260 --> 00:49:12.659
She pulled that sort of slight funny face because this is really

1167
00:49:12.659 --> 00:49:14.579
awkward and I'm acknowledging it as well.

1168
00:49:14.639 --> 00:49:19.320
Like, she's thinking and the smile, the little grateful smile.

1169
00:49:19.380 --> 00:49:20.760
It's really good.

1170
00:49:20.820 --> 00:49:25.739
And it could be icky and it could be awkward. to watch, but it's

1171
00:49:25.739 --> 00:49:29.880
not because they're they're so awkwardness as well.

1172
00:49:29.940 --> 00:49:30.659
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1173
00:49:30.719 --> 00:49:33.599
I mean, he refuses to make it awkward and she refuses to make it

1174
00:49:33.599 --> 00:49:34.019
awkward.

1175
00:49:34.079 --> 00:49:36.059
They both like, okay, we've had a moment.

1176
00:49:36.119 --> 00:49:37.079
I'm not going to be it.

1177
00:49:37.139 --> 00:49:38.159
It's going to be okay.

1178
00:49:38.219 --> 00:49:39.059
Yeah.

1179
00:49:39.480 --> 00:49:41.519
It's really good.

1180
00:49:41.579 --> 00:49:44.699
She's really properly thinking about how to perform this.

1181
00:49:44.760 --> 00:49:45.659
It's tremendous.

1182
00:49:45.719 --> 00:49:47.579
I love as well. like we don't cut to the morning.

1183
00:49:47.639 --> 00:49:50.400
She's clearly sat there in bed for maybe 10, 15 minutes and then

1184
00:49:50.400 --> 00:49:53.340
she gets up whilst he's still working on the same thing and says

1185
00:49:53.340 --> 00:49:54.480
look, we've got to talk about this.

1186
00:49:54.539 --> 00:49:55.860
Yeah, yeah.

1187
00:49:55.920 --> 00:50:00.179
Or sorry, we've got to define some parameters. to our relationship

1188
00:50:01.500 --> 00:50:03.179
look at that.

1189
00:50:03.239 --> 00:50:07.739
He looks over, she's in a semi-transparent cubicle. in the bed

1190
00:50:07.739 --> 00:50:09.239
bizarrely.

1191
00:50:09.300 --> 00:50:11.159
Then we can't back to the ship.

1192
00:50:11.219 --> 00:50:12.300
It really is.

1193
00:50:12.420 --> 00:50:13.139
The scene coming up.

1194
00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:15.719
It really is one of those things that sort of transcends the show

1195
00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:17.820
that it's from.

1196
00:50:17.880 --> 00:50:22.980
Because it's so atypical for the show. in that it's incredibly

1197
00:50:22.980 --> 00:50:23.280
good.

1198
00:50:24.659 --> 00:50:27.599
Very unusual for Voyager.

1199
00:50:27.659 --> 00:50:31.019
Oh, no, but here we are back on the bridge talking about

1200
00:50:31.019 --> 00:50:32.219
coordinates and things.

1201
00:50:32.280 --> 00:50:34.079
So, you know, but they...

1202
00:50:34.199 --> 00:50:38.579
The good thing about this, I think, is that Tuvok was right, you

1203
00:50:38.579 --> 00:50:43.320
know, and even there's that thing, let's spend the next so many

1204
00:50:43.320 --> 00:50:46.079
hours doing battle drills before they arrive.

1205
00:50:46.199 --> 00:50:50.159
Yeah, she comes back out and says, we've got to talk about this.

1206
00:50:50.219 --> 00:50:51.420
What are we going to do?

1207
00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:55.079
I'm not sure that nice, he's very flattering on her there.

1208
00:50:55.139 --> 00:50:57.179
No, and it's not as nice.

1209
00:50:57.179 --> 00:50:58.139
Very buttoned up, isn't it?

1210
00:50:58.199 --> 00:51:00.059
What sort of things they wear in the handmaid's tail.

1211
00:51:00.539 --> 00:51:07.199
It's funny that he's very sort of calculated and parameters and

1212
00:51:07.199 --> 00:51:08.639
she's a scientist.

1213
00:51:08.699 --> 00:51:11.639
We're going to define some parameters and he says, no, I'm going

1214
00:51:11.639 --> 00:51:12.360
to tell you a story.

1215
00:51:12.420 --> 00:51:16.739
And the story, like, I love the story.

1216
00:51:16.800 --> 00:51:19.739
She does deem to look very interested in the story.

1217
00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:23.880
But the great thing is, this is this is like a cheesy beat.

1218
00:51:23.940 --> 00:51:27.780
And of course, in retrospect, knowing that he's not in any way

1219
00:51:27.780 --> 00:51:32.039
Native American and no one involved is pretty much makes it a bit

1220
00:51:32.039 --> 00:51:32.699
awful.

1221
00:51:32.880 --> 00:51:39.059
But the way that he characterises himself, like the thing where he

1222
00:51:39.059 --> 00:51:46.980
says, I found peace by putting you 1st, by making my centring my

1223
00:51:46.980 --> 00:51:50.579
world around you and doing everything I can to support you.

1224
00:51:50.639 --> 00:51:52.320
And that's as sexy as hell.

1225
00:51:52.380 --> 00:51:54.420
He's absolutely the same, isn't he?

1226
00:51:54.480 --> 00:51:56.579
That I would rather be here than on that ship.

1227
00:51:57.000 --> 00:52:03.539
Either way, but he is also saying that you are someone who has

1228
00:52:03.539 --> 00:52:08.039
been so important to me and I've looked, and this, the woman

1229
00:52:08.039 --> 00:52:10.739
warrior was brave and beautiful and she was wise, but we're not

1230
00:52:10.739 --> 00:52:12.900
looking at Chakotay telling the story to Jane.

1231
00:52:12.960 --> 00:52:13.619
We're looking at her.

1232
00:52:13.739 --> 00:52:18.239
And so when he's talking about himself, Singer puts the camera on

1233
00:52:18.239 --> 00:52:19.739
Chakotay and when he's talking about her.

1234
00:52:19.860 --> 00:52:23.099
And you know, because...

1235
00:52:23.099 --> 00:52:25.559
Because Beltran knows it's a load of bullshit, he's saying, just

1236
00:52:25.559 --> 00:52:26.519
to express his feelings.

1237
00:52:26.579 --> 00:52:29.159
He actually can deliver it with some honesty.

1238
00:52:29.460 --> 00:52:34.739
The other thing, which I think is great though, is look at her

1239
00:52:34.739 --> 00:52:35.340
reaction.

1240
00:52:35.400 --> 00:52:36.659
Look at her.

1241
00:52:36.719 --> 00:52:39.900
She knows Star Trek does subtext so badly.

1242
00:52:39.960 --> 00:52:46.500
And she just laughs and smiles and is so stunningly beautiful in

1243
00:52:46.500 --> 00:52:47.039
that moment.

1244
00:52:47.099 --> 00:52:49.559
That's not really a story, is it?

1245
00:52:49.619 --> 00:52:53.519
That's not really an ancient legend, and she's so delighted.

1246
00:52:53.579 --> 00:52:57.539
It's beautiful and they have sex.

1247
00:52:59.340 --> 00:53:01.559
That's such a great line.

1248
00:53:01.619 --> 00:53:02.940
That's such a great line.

1249
00:53:03.000 --> 00:53:06.420
But that's the best we can do because this is Star Trek.

1250
00:53:06.480 --> 00:53:07.559
We just have them holding hands.

1251
00:53:07.679 --> 00:53:08.760
I don't know, though.

1252
00:53:08.820 --> 00:53:12.539
Sometimes I think implication is sexier than actually seeing it

1253
00:53:12.599 --> 00:53:13.260
sometimes.

1254
00:53:13.320 --> 00:53:15.360
No, but it's not even implied.

1255
00:53:15.420 --> 00:53:17.760
I think this is the cat being cowardly.

1256
00:53:17.820 --> 00:53:20.699
I don't think they're implying it just by holding hands.

1257
00:53:20.760 --> 00:53:22.320
And then they're relaxed.

1258
00:53:22.380 --> 00:53:24.719
They needed to do a proper job of that.

1259
00:53:24.719 --> 00:53:26.519
And that's...

1260
00:53:26.519 --> 00:53:29.880
Coming out of the mouth was far more sexy than how do I see that?

1261
00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:33.360
Oh, that's such a great moment.

1262
00:53:33.659 --> 00:53:37.619
I remember watching that for the 1st time and like sitting up in

1263
00:53:37.619 --> 00:53:38.099
my chair.

1264
00:53:38.159 --> 00:53:40.920
I teared up watching it even today.

1265
00:53:40.980 --> 00:53:43.019
You got to remember I knew it was coming.

1266
00:53:43.139 --> 00:53:45.239
I didn't have the rest of Voyager.

1267
00:53:45.300 --> 00:53:46.559
I didn't know where this show was going.

1268
00:53:46.619 --> 00:53:49.679
I thought they were going to have a romance between the captain

1269
00:53:49.679 --> 00:53:51.900
and the 1st officer because that's what this episode's employing.

1270
00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:52.980
Yeah.

1271
00:53:52.980 --> 00:53:55.679
So I was really...

1272
00:53:55.739 --> 00:53:56.820
That would have been great.

1273
00:53:56.880 --> 00:53:57.960
Yeah.

1274
00:53:58.019 --> 00:54:03.059
Yeah, well, we had Michael and and book in Discovery.

1275
00:54:03.119 --> 00:54:06.420
I mean, he, you know, oh, here we go.

1276
00:54:06.480 --> 00:54:07.019
What's her name?

1277
00:54:07.079 --> 00:54:07.619
And then, you know what?

1278
00:54:08.099 --> 00:54:11.340
there, been a lot of imagining if we did that that we've covered.

1279
00:54:11.400 --> 00:54:12.000
Yeah, yeah.

1280
00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:13.380
Star Trek project.

1281
00:54:13.440 --> 00:54:14.940
Oh here we go.

1282
00:54:15.059 --> 00:54:18.239
We need to have our standard sort of battle scene here.

1283
00:54:18.480 --> 00:54:23.159
But again, I think what makes the battle scene work really well is

1284
00:54:23.159 --> 00:54:29.219
Tuvok saying what we're going to do, and it's partly because we, we

1285
00:54:29.219 --> 00:54:33.960
sort of do see it, but it just makes him seem supremely competent

1286
00:54:33.960 --> 00:54:34.380
at this.

1287
00:54:34.440 --> 00:54:37.320
And I guess he's a tactical officer and that kind of works as

1288
00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:37.559
well.

1289
00:54:37.679 --> 00:54:41.219
But also, it means that Janeway was right to tell them not to

1290
00:54:41.219 --> 00:54:43.980
contact the Vadeans and Jeeva was right to because it was always

1291
00:54:43.980 --> 00:54:46.739
going to end up in conflict. exactly right Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1292
00:54:46.800 --> 00:54:47.280
Yeah.

1293
00:54:47.460 --> 00:54:49.380
Schmalis.

1294
00:54:49.440 --> 00:54:52.800
Yeah, that's the her uncle, remember?

1295
00:54:52.860 --> 00:54:55.860
Or something that she gives him that name in life signs or

1296
00:54:55.860 --> 00:54:56.039
something?

1297
00:54:56.099 --> 00:54:58.260
We're going to have one more scene.

1298
00:54:58.320 --> 00:55:03.000
Of this beautiful relationship between Janeway and Shakotay.

1299
00:55:03.059 --> 00:55:05.940
So please let's enjoy the moment because I don't think we're ever

1300
00:55:05.940 --> 00:55:07.199
going to have it again on this podcast.

1301
00:55:07.260 --> 00:55:08.639
No, no.

1302
00:55:10.440 --> 00:55:12.840
Let's celebrate the day.

1303
00:55:12.900 --> 00:55:16.500
And also, like, I was actually relieved that there wasn't some

1304
00:55:16.500 --> 00:55:19.739
bullshit reason why he wasn't going to do that, where he's going

1305
00:55:19.739 --> 00:55:22.260
to say, no, we can't possibly lower the shields, and it's just

1306
00:55:22.260 --> 00:55:25.139
like, no, that's why you came here for, for fuck's sake, lower the

1307
00:55:25.139 --> 00:55:25.500
shields.

1308
00:55:25.559 --> 00:55:26.280
And it's not.

1309
00:55:26.340 --> 00:55:27.599
He's super sensible.

1310
00:55:27.659 --> 00:55:31.079
He, you know, he gives a big speech about what's going to happen

1311
00:55:31.079 --> 00:55:34.320
and there's a lot of moving parts to it and all of that.

1312
00:55:34.380 --> 00:55:35.099
I think it's really good.

1313
00:55:35.159 --> 00:55:39.480
Do you remember I said to you earlier about Chakotay being like my

1314
00:55:39.480 --> 00:55:39.900
mark?

1315
00:55:39.960 --> 00:55:41.099
Now, this sounds like him.

1316
00:55:41.159 --> 00:55:41.639
Right.

1317
00:55:41.699 --> 00:55:44.099
Here is the series of events that will occur.

1318
00:55:46.019 --> 00:55:48.719
Some men just think that way, don't they?

1319
00:55:49.260 --> 00:55:52.019
Very linear, very consecutive.

1320
00:55:52.079 --> 00:55:57.119
Oh, we got an eye, sir, from Harry, which was a sincere eye, sir

1321
00:55:57.119 --> 00:56:00.719
rather than his pissy petular dice, sir, from before.

1322
00:56:00.840 --> 00:56:03.840
This is why he's still an ensign in series 7, you know.

1323
00:56:03.900 --> 00:56:05.639
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

1324
00:56:06.119 --> 00:56:11.940
God knows why uh, on Paris keeps getting promoted and demoted.

1325
00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:14.039
He knows what that keeps the worst of it.

1326
00:56:14.099 --> 00:56:15.599
Yeah, I can say.

1327
00:56:15.659 --> 00:56:17.940
But this is, like you said, this is great because we've

1328
00:56:17.940 --> 00:56:19.739
established a relationship with the Vidians.

1329
00:56:19.800 --> 00:56:25.320
It means that this climax of them getting the medicine.

1330
00:56:25.380 --> 00:56:30.360
It's not light. conclusions are usually pretty lame, you know?

1331
00:56:30.420 --> 00:56:32.219
Yeah, yeah, I think it works really well.

1332
00:56:32.280 --> 00:56:33.300
I think it works.

1333
00:56:33.780 --> 00:56:36.059
Set a course for the planet.

1334
00:56:36.119 --> 00:56:37.980
Warp four.

1335
00:56:37.980 --> 00:56:38.880
Whoop six.

1336
00:56:38.940 --> 00:56:39.239
Come on.

1337
00:56:39.300 --> 00:56:41.099
Jerry Taylor is scriptwriting this.

1338
00:56:41.159 --> 00:56:43.139
Why isn't she seeing how much this is working?

1339
00:56:43.199 --> 00:56:45.179
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1340
00:56:46.019 --> 00:56:49.139
I mean, I'll say one thing for Jerry Tango.

1341
00:56:49.199 --> 00:56:52.559
She knows how to write Janeway brilliantly.

1342
00:56:52.619 --> 00:56:56.940
Like, she devised the character pretty much, I think, about 80% of

1343
00:56:56.940 --> 00:56:57.420
the character.

1344
00:56:57.480 --> 00:56:59.460
So she knows J.W. inside out back to front.

1345
00:56:59.519 --> 00:57:02.579
The science thing, I think, is a genius thing.

1346
00:57:02.639 --> 00:57:05.760
By this point, she knows how to write mole group because she's

1347
00:57:05.760 --> 00:57:06.900
been playing the role for 2 years.

1348
00:57:06.960 --> 00:57:07.980
Yeah.

1349
00:57:08.039 --> 00:57:10.739
I mean, Jangway is now spread equal on the floor.

1350
00:57:10.800 --> 00:57:12.000
She's clearly had some fun.

1351
00:57:12.119 --> 00:57:17.159
But, but no, because they're not as physically easy with one

1352
00:57:17.159 --> 00:57:20.159
another as you would normally want them to be in a scene if you

1353
00:57:20.159 --> 00:57:21.780
wanted to establish that they had sex.

1354
00:57:21.840 --> 00:57:23.519
And I think that they're pulling back from it.

1355
00:57:24.179 --> 00:57:27.239
Well, they're trying to make maybe have their cake and eat it.

1356
00:57:27.300 --> 00:57:30.539
So those that want it, say yes, those that don't.

1357
00:57:30.599 --> 00:57:31.320
No, that's right.

1358
00:57:31.380 --> 00:57:33.780
But I think that they really needed to properly do it.

1359
00:57:34.380 --> 00:57:40.139
And that makes this that makes this much more heartbreaking

1360
00:57:40.139 --> 00:57:43.860
because all of the, like anything interesting about this, they

1361
00:57:43.860 --> 00:57:44.760
throw out the window.

1362
00:57:44.820 --> 00:57:49.800
If she has given away this relationship with this beautiful

1363
00:57:49.800 --> 00:57:54.179
considerate man, you know, who worships the ground she walks on

1364
00:57:54.179 --> 00:57:56.519
and is making her happy and relaxed.

1365
00:57:56.579 --> 00:57:57.960
Do you know what I mean?

1366
00:57:58.019 --> 00:58:01.679
There's a little bit of it, but, and, and it, but, it breaks down

1367
00:58:01.679 --> 00:58:04.860
because the show is back and they just now have to be their jobs

1368
00:58:04.860 --> 00:58:05.219
again.

1369
00:58:05.280 --> 00:58:07.739
But we don't even do that.

1370
00:58:07.800 --> 00:58:09.360
We don't do any of that.

1371
00:58:09.420 --> 00:58:12.480
I'd rather watch another 5 seasons of this or down on the planet.

1372
00:58:12.539 --> 00:58:13.559
Yeah, kind of would.

1373
00:58:13.619 --> 00:58:16.800
The bathtub, we couldn't fit the bathtub on the boat.

1374
00:58:16.860 --> 00:58:17.579
Look at them.

1375
00:58:17.639 --> 00:58:19.199
Do you hear that?

1376
00:58:19.260 --> 00:58:19.679
Oh no.

1377
00:58:19.739 --> 00:58:21.780
And then watch their body language.

1378
00:58:21.780 --> 00:58:22.619
Pretend we're out.

1379
00:58:22.739 --> 00:58:23.760
Yeah.

1380
00:58:26.820 --> 00:58:28.860
So what's that?

1381
00:58:30.719 --> 00:58:33.659
No, they're on the next planet along.

1382
00:58:33.719 --> 00:58:34.679
Go and check that one out.

1383
00:58:37.139 --> 00:58:42.599
Oh, and they they are sort of giving each other looks in this

1384
00:58:42.599 --> 00:58:43.320
scene as well.

1385
00:58:43.380 --> 00:58:44.219
Yeah, that's it.

1386
00:58:44.280 --> 00:58:46.559
She's going to look up at him in a minute, isn't she?

1387
00:58:47.519 --> 00:58:50.159
Yes, look at her.

1388
00:58:50.219 --> 00:58:51.719
And look at that reaction.

1389
00:58:51.780 --> 00:58:53.880
We can't match it.

1390
00:58:54.000 --> 00:58:58.559
We can't like that smile, this shot where she's looking at the

1391
00:58:58.559 --> 00:59:03.059
tomato she was just planting, and then look how bereft she looks.

1392
00:59:03.119 --> 00:59:05.519
Like how unhappy she is about leaving.

1393
00:59:05.579 --> 00:59:08.760
And she's looking at the tomato she was planning in the previous

1394
00:59:08.760 --> 00:59:09.300
scene.

1395
00:59:09.360 --> 00:59:11.760
That is unbelievable, you know.

1396
00:59:11.820 --> 00:59:15.420
That the worst enemy of this episode is Star Trek Voyager the

1397
00:59:15.420 --> 00:59:15.900
series.

1398
00:59:15.960 --> 00:59:16.800
Yeah, yeah.

1399
00:59:16.800 --> 00:59:18.780
Coming along to the spoiler relationship.

1400
00:59:19.380 --> 00:59:20.280
That's right.

1401
00:59:21.239 --> 00:59:23.039
Oh dear.

1402
00:59:23.099 --> 00:59:27.840
I love how she says feel free to use the house. to a monkey.

1403
00:59:29.159 --> 00:59:32.820
That monkey who's probably long, long gone now has been

1404
00:59:32.820 --> 00:59:34.019
immortalised in this episode.

1405
00:59:34.860 --> 00:59:39.059
He must have wondered what the hell was going on, actually, in his

1406
00:59:39.059 --> 00:59:39.420
studio.

1407
00:59:40.980 --> 00:59:45.659
So they just stand facing each other and they look and we can't do

1408
00:59:45.659 --> 00:59:47.519
anything because this is Voyager.

1409
00:59:47.579 --> 00:59:49.980
Now in fact, now they look awkward.

1410
00:59:50.699 --> 00:59:54.360
They'll treat sort of like hunched together with his arms

1411
00:59:54.360 --> 00:59:54.780
clasped.

1412
00:59:54.840 --> 00:59:59.579
Well, yeah, yeah. just sit down and there's no acknowledgement of

1413
00:59:59.579 --> 00:59:59.820
anything.

1414
00:59:59.880 --> 01:00:03.599
They sit down on the bridge and they just do an eye contact with

1415
01:00:03.599 --> 01:00:03.960
one another.

1416
01:00:04.260 --> 01:00:06.239
They don't make eye contact.

1417
01:00:06.239 --> 01:00:06.719
Fuck.

1418
01:00:06.780 --> 01:00:10.920
But no, but that should be heartbreaking.

1419
01:00:10.980 --> 01:00:11.940
Do you know what I mean?

1420
01:00:12.000 --> 01:00:13.739
That should break our hearts.

1421
01:00:13.800 --> 01:00:15.900
It's just annoying. weird.

1422
01:00:15.960 --> 01:00:17.579
Yeah, yeah.

1423
01:00:17.639 --> 01:00:21.239
Because they haven't had sex because we can't really feel what

1424
01:00:21.239 --> 01:00:24.119
they've lost because we won't acknowledge what they've lost.

1425
01:00:24.179 --> 01:00:27.360
And because they can't write a scene where we talk about it like

1426
01:00:27.360 --> 01:00:29.039
grown-ups or anything like that.

1427
01:00:29.099 --> 01:00:33.659
Like, look, she's weirdly not talking to him, like even not

1428
01:00:33.659 --> 01:00:34.320
looking at him.

1429
01:00:34.380 --> 01:00:36.840
Like and she normally doesn't, does she?

1430
01:00:36.900 --> 01:00:40.320
She's normally delivering her speeches to the screen and stuff.

1431
01:00:40.380 --> 01:00:42.360
She can be very wrong in the same direction.

1432
01:00:42.960 --> 01:00:44.340
Yes.

1433
01:00:44.340 --> 01:00:46.139
And then that's it, then it ends.

1434
01:00:46.199 --> 01:00:48.119
I'd have more respect for Jerry Tiger.

1435
01:00:48.179 --> 01:00:50.699
She had written that they give each other a sly look, you know

1436
01:00:50.699 --> 01:00:51.420
across the bridge.

1437
01:00:51.480 --> 01:00:52.320
Yeah, yeah.

1438
01:00:53.280 --> 01:00:56.400
What if they'd sneaked around for a few episodes?

1439
01:00:56.460 --> 01:01:01.079
Do you remember when Bashir and Ezri finally have it off in what

1440
01:01:01.079 --> 01:01:01.860
you leave behind?

1441
01:01:01.860 --> 01:01:04.380
And then they're in that battle and they look across the bridge

1442
01:01:04.380 --> 01:01:06.599
and we have a scene where they just look across the bridge at each

1443
01:01:06.599 --> 01:01:09.000
other like, I hope we get out of this alive because I want to have

1444
01:01:09.000 --> 01:01:09.719
sex with you.

1445
01:01:12.539 --> 01:01:15.300
Yeah, such a weird...

1446
01:01:15.900 --> 01:01:17.280
Yeah.

1447
01:01:17.340 --> 01:01:22.500
Like it fails in the usual voyage away by not wanting to commit to

1448
01:01:22.500 --> 01:01:27.000
anything that's implied by the episode and by being reluctant to

1449
01:01:27.000 --> 01:01:30.300
take interesting things further.

1450
01:01:30.360 --> 01:01:33.719
But what we get to be grateful for, I think, is maybe one of

1451
01:01:33.719 --> 01:01:35.820
Kate's best performances.

1452
01:01:35.940 --> 01:01:38.039
As an hour of Star Trek.

1453
01:01:38.099 --> 01:01:40.139
It's so enjoyable to watch.

1454
01:01:40.199 --> 01:01:45.780
But like, and we, we've discussed it, but DS9, try something, if

1455
01:01:45.780 --> 01:01:47.159
it doesn't work, it discards it.

1456
01:01:47.219 --> 01:01:49.079
If it does work, it builds on it.

1457
01:01:49.139 --> 01:01:50.400
Yes, exactly right.

1458
01:01:50.460 --> 01:01:52.500
Voyager tries something.

1459
01:01:52.559 --> 01:01:56.460
If it doesn't work, more often than not, they'll try it again

1460
01:01:56.460 --> 01:01:57.239
Fairhaven.

1461
01:01:58.260 --> 01:02:00.119
If it does work.

1462
01:02:00.179 --> 01:02:04.619
They go, well, we aren't doing that again. speak of this again.

1463
01:02:05.099 --> 01:02:07.920
It's so strange, isn't it?

1464
01:02:07.980 --> 01:02:09.659
I've never known a show work like this.

1465
01:02:10.079 --> 01:02:14.280
The other disappointing thing is like I think about the various

1466
01:02:14.280 --> 01:02:20.699
Star Trek romances in the 90s and they're all kind of terrible.

1467
01:02:21.239 --> 01:02:23.760
And this one wasn't.

1468
01:02:23.940 --> 01:02:25.380
You know, this one wasn't.

1469
01:02:25.500 --> 01:02:26.940
You know what?

1470
01:02:27.000 --> 01:02:32.159
I think my nearest comparison would be Odo and Kira in last day

1471
01:02:32.159 --> 01:02:35.039
DS9, where it's 2 characters that have known each other for a

1472
01:02:35.039 --> 01:02:38.280
while, where it's a relationship built on respect, where they

1473
01:02:38.280 --> 01:02:42.059
understand each other, where neither one of them forces who they

1474
01:02:42.059 --> 01:02:43.380
are on the other person.

1475
01:02:43.440 --> 01:02:44.039
Yeah.

1476
01:02:44.099 --> 01:02:46.019
And that works like gangbusters.

1477
01:02:46.079 --> 01:02:46.739
Sure.

1478
01:02:46.800 --> 01:02:50.340
But I meant like as an actual episode that's structured as a

1479
01:02:50.340 --> 01:02:55.019
romance, you know, where 2 characters are isolated, get to know

1480
01:02:55.019 --> 01:02:58.139
one another, have a relationship, and then the relationship ends

1481
01:02:58.139 --> 01:02:58.800
in some way.

1482
01:02:58.860 --> 01:03:01.679
What was the TNG one you brought up last time?

1483
01:03:01.739 --> 01:03:07.079
I think lessons might be not that works pretty well.

1484
01:03:07.139 --> 01:03:09.119
I think it rejoined works quite well as well.

1485
01:03:09.179 --> 01:03:10.920
Yeah, okay.

1486
01:03:10.920 --> 01:03:12.480
But they are exceptions to the rule.

1487
01:03:12.539 --> 01:03:16.019
I mean, there's 10 more that don't work in each show.

1488
01:03:16.079 --> 01:03:19.380
But I think what's disappointing about this one is it has 2

1489
01:03:19.380 --> 01:03:26.880
charismatic leads and it goes nowhere and then the whole Chakotay

1490
01:03:26.880 --> 01:03:29.519
kind of thing degenerates terribly, I think.

1491
01:03:29.579 --> 01:03:33.300
Um, you know, it's all just squandered.

1492
01:03:33.360 --> 01:03:36.659
It's usually, do you find him like trek romance?

1493
01:03:36.719 --> 01:03:38.099
We've done a fair few of them lately on this.

1494
01:03:38.880 --> 01:03:42.119
There's usually like an ick factor involved somewhere.

1495
01:03:42.179 --> 01:03:43.079
Yeah.

1496
01:03:43.139 --> 01:03:47.760
Whether that's how the man is treating the woman or, um, I don't

1497
01:03:47.760 --> 01:03:52.440
know, Troy turning into an old Harridan trying to attack.

1498
01:03:52.440 --> 01:03:53.340
Yeah, that's awesome.

1499
01:03:53.400 --> 01:03:57.539
Or like, I don't know, Bashir coming onto his patient in that

1500
01:03:57.539 --> 01:03:59.579
season 7 episode, which is very weird.

1501
01:03:59.639 --> 01:04:02.699
You know, there's always there's always like a level of like, ooh

1502
01:04:02.699 --> 01:04:04.380
this shouldn't be happening for one reason or another.

1503
01:04:04.440 --> 01:04:06.000
Throughout this episode.

1504
01:04:06.059 --> 01:04:07.920
We're like, no, no, this should be happening.

1505
01:04:07.980 --> 01:04:08.519
This works.

1506
01:04:08.639 --> 01:04:10.199
They've got great chemistry.

1507
01:04:10.260 --> 01:04:13.320
Now establish that they've got feelings for each other.

1508
01:04:13.380 --> 01:04:13.860
Let's go.

1509
01:04:13.980 --> 01:04:15.420
Yeah, yeah.

1510
01:04:15.480 --> 01:04:16.619
Let's do something interesting.

1511
01:04:16.679 --> 01:04:17.880
And that's the other thing too.

1512
01:04:17.940 --> 01:04:22.739
Like, the whole idea is this is a ship that's like a family, you

1513
01:04:22.739 --> 01:04:25.500
know, she says, as she's saying goodbye to them in that beautiful

1514
01:04:25.500 --> 01:04:25.920
speech.

1515
01:04:25.980 --> 01:04:27.780
They could be mum and dad.

1516
01:04:27.780 --> 01:04:30.659
Well, they could be, you know, like, why not?

1517
01:04:30.719 --> 01:04:34.079
Harry Kane would be so happy in our parents on the ship.

1518
01:04:34.139 --> 01:04:38.219
Because you have that relationship on Battlestar Galactica, that

1519
01:04:38.219 --> 01:04:40.860
primary relationship on Battlestar Galactica.

1520
01:04:40.920 --> 01:04:45.599
And that works really well, but that's a grown-up show that's

1521
01:04:45.599 --> 01:04:49.139
prepared to kind of pursue that sort of stuff and that's happy to

1522
01:04:49.139 --> 01:04:52.440
have 2 older characters who are in a relationship together and

1523
01:04:52.440 --> 01:04:55.320
just let that happen, you know, just shame.

1524
01:04:55.380 --> 01:04:58.199
Take it somewhere, you know, in the back of my head to a dreadful

1525
01:04:58.199 --> 01:05:01.679
sitcom of Voyager, where Jane Wedge goes, oh, mom and dad.

1526
01:05:01.739 --> 01:05:03.239
And Harry Kim is their little kid.

1527
01:05:03.300 --> 01:05:05.519
And he's like, come on, you've got to go to the bridge today.

1528
01:05:05.579 --> 01:05:06.360
Mom!

1529
01:05:07.260 --> 01:05:09.300
Yeah, I'd watch that.

1530
01:05:09.360 --> 01:05:12.599
It might have been more fun than Voyager we go, actually.

1531
01:05:14.639 --> 01:05:21.599
Very, very, very satisfying episode, very unsatisfying decision

1532
01:05:21.599 --> 01:05:23.400
post this episode.

1533
01:05:23.460 --> 01:05:24.599
Yeah.

1534
01:05:31.079 --> 01:05:34.920
All right, it's the end of the episode, and it is time for us to

1535
01:05:34.920 --> 01:05:40.260
decide what we're going to watch next, and I want to keep my run

1536
01:05:40.260 --> 01:05:47.280
of episodes of a certain level of quality, and for that reason

1537
01:05:47.280 --> 01:05:51.420
I've decided that this time, I'm going to choose an episode of

1538
01:05:51.420 --> 01:05:52.380
Enterprise.

1539
01:05:52.619 --> 01:05:56.820
Well, you also, the average has been below average.

1540
01:05:56.940 --> 01:05:58.739
So I think you're going to be happy.

1541
01:05:58.800 --> 01:05:59.400
Don't worry.

1542
01:05:59.460 --> 01:06:00.000
Okay.

1543
01:06:00.059 --> 01:06:00.599
All right.

1544
01:06:00.659 --> 01:06:01.860
Let's see how we go.

1545
01:06:01.920 --> 01:06:03.179
What if I get a classic?

1546
01:06:03.960 --> 01:06:05.880
Is there a classic?

1547
01:06:05.940 --> 01:06:13.800
I don't know So this is series 2, episode 19, Judgement.

1548
01:06:14.039 --> 01:06:17.400
Oh, that's Scott Buckular's favourite episode.

1549
01:06:17.460 --> 01:06:18.780
Oh really?

1550
01:06:18.840 --> 01:06:22.500
He pinpointed that one has his favourite episode. particularly the

1551
01:06:22.500 --> 01:06:23.880
speech he gives in the climax.

1552
01:06:23.940 --> 01:06:25.440
Is he an arsehole?

1553
01:06:25.500 --> 01:06:26.699
So I went and sort it out.

1554
01:06:26.820 --> 01:06:31.920
No, I think it's sort of, it's, you know, confirming the Star Trek

1555
01:06:31.920 --> 01:06:34.860
ideal to a court of Klingons.

1556
01:06:35.099 --> 01:06:39.780
I do remember it wasn't as great as he thought it was, but it was

1557
01:06:39.780 --> 01:06:41.519
probably above average.

1558
01:06:41.579 --> 01:06:43.860
Oh well, I'll pick another one then.

1559
01:06:46.920 --> 01:06:48.360
Kishara.

1560
01:06:48.420 --> 01:06:54.179
So I think that this is one that I want to do, and I'll tell you

1561
01:06:54.179 --> 01:06:54.599
why.

1562
01:06:54.659 --> 01:06:59.340
It's because series 4 is like super interesting and I started

1563
01:06:59.340 --> 01:07:02.280
watching it on the plane that one time and then didn't take it any

1564
01:07:02.280 --> 01:07:09.599
further and I got, you know, 5 or 6 episodes in and I liked the

1565
01:07:09.599 --> 01:07:14.280
way that the storytelling was like super serialised and there were

1566
01:07:14.280 --> 01:07:17.039
episodes kind of loosely connected and stuff, but all of the

1567
01:07:17.039 --> 01:07:20.880
episodes were sort of connected and one would lead on from another

1568
01:07:20.880 --> 01:07:21.480
and stuff.

1569
01:07:21.539 --> 01:07:24.360
I didn't think that it was just like, it's not like a classic

1570
01:07:24.360 --> 01:07:27.840
Doctor Who season where you have, you know, 6 stories told over

1571
01:07:27.840 --> 01:07:30.000
sort of 26 episodes or anything like that.

1572
01:07:30.059 --> 01:07:33.900
It still seemed like a 26 episode thing, but everything was a

1573
01:07:33.900 --> 01:07:38.099
little bit more serialised the way they did the previous year for

1574
01:07:38.099 --> 01:07:39.420
series 3.

1575
01:07:39.719 --> 01:07:43.199
But I think this is more fun serialised in a way.

1576
01:07:43.260 --> 01:07:48.840
And I think it sort of opens the world up a little bit this

1577
01:07:48.840 --> 01:07:49.260
season.

1578
01:07:49.320 --> 01:07:50.639
So I'd like to give it a go.

1579
01:07:50.699 --> 01:07:54.780
Every time I've dipped my toes into season four.

1580
01:07:54.840 --> 01:07:57.599
I've been quite impressed and I don't want to shit all over

1581
01:07:57.599 --> 01:08:00.300
Branenbragger and Rick Bourbon, although we do that a lot.

1582
01:08:00.360 --> 01:08:01.260
Yeah, yeah.

1583
01:08:01.260 --> 01:08:06.059
But I think the show is on a more sophisticated footing once they

1584
01:08:06.059 --> 01:08:08.639
are no longer sort of steering the ship.

1585
01:08:09.000 --> 01:08:14.940
And Manikoto has come in and he's kind of got a very sure idea of

1586
01:08:14.940 --> 01:08:16.260
what he wants to do with it.

1587
01:08:16.680 --> 01:08:21.600
I think he was hoping it was going to go to a series 5 and he was

1588
01:08:21.600 --> 01:08:23.220
definitely moving the show in a direction.

1589
01:08:23.340 --> 01:08:27.720
And finally, they're bloody embracing the past in a way that they

1590
01:08:27.720 --> 01:08:29.340
should have done from series one.

1591
01:08:29.340 --> 01:08:32.340
And what have made people sort of tune in and pay attention.

1592
01:08:32.399 --> 01:08:33.659
Yeah, let's do it.

1593
01:08:33.720 --> 01:08:36.899
And I'm going to watch all three, even though we're going to be

1594
01:08:36.899 --> 01:08:40.260
doing the conclusion of a...

1595
01:08:40.319 --> 01:08:44.640
I do think it would be very old without any context at all talking

1596
01:08:44.640 --> 01:08:46.619
about the conclusion to a story.

1597
01:08:46.680 --> 01:08:51.600
It's just that like there is now so much Star Trek out there that

1598
01:08:51.600 --> 01:08:54.659
is sort of serialised by the season.

1599
01:08:54.720 --> 01:08:58.619
So, you know, every time we do a Picard episode or a discovery

1600
01:08:58.619 --> 01:09:01.920
episode we're going to be in a sort of fairly similar situation.

1601
01:09:01.979 --> 01:09:04.500
So it's something that we might have to learn to live with.

1602
01:09:04.560 --> 01:09:05.579
But I think I agree with you.

1603
01:09:05.640 --> 01:09:07.560
I haven't seen this trilogy at all.

1604
01:09:07.619 --> 01:09:12.180
And I'm intrigued because the 1st part, which is called The Forge

1605
01:09:12.180 --> 01:09:17.100
apparently has the Vulcan embassy being bombed. so that'd be fun.

1606
01:09:17.159 --> 01:09:18.479
Yeah, yeah.

1607
01:09:18.539 --> 01:09:19.079
Yeah.

1608
01:09:19.140 --> 01:09:20.399
Yeah, why not?

1609
01:09:20.460 --> 01:09:22.140
Colour me intrigued.

1610
01:09:22.199 --> 01:09:22.920
Yeah.

1611
01:09:22.979 --> 01:09:23.460
Okay.

1612
01:09:23.520 --> 01:09:24.359
I think that'll be fun.

1613
01:09:24.420 --> 01:09:24.899
Let's do that.

1614
01:09:33.960 --> 01:09:37.020
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek project with Joe Ford

1615
01:09:37.020 --> 01:09:41.039
and Nathan Bottomley, where online at untitled Star Trek project

1616
01:09:40.140 --> 01:09:43.619
com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social

1617
01:09:43.619 --> 01:09:44.579
media accounts.

1618
01:09:44.640 --> 01:09:48.720
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Sisrin and the theme was composed

1619
01:09:48.720 --> 01:09:50.039
by Cameron Lahn.

1620
01:09:50.100 --> 01:09:54.420
This episode was recorded on the 17th of October 2023 and released

1621
01:09:54.420 --> 01:09:55.739
on the 20th of October.

1622
01:09:55.800 --> 01:10:00.180
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Enterprise here, Shara.

1623
01:10:16.560 --> 01:10:18.960
Oh, well, I'll pick another one, then.

1624
01:10:22.079 --> 01:10:23.579
Kishara.

1625
01:10:23.579 --> 01:10:25.560
So, season four, episode nine.

1626
01:10:25.680 --> 01:10:28.739
I don't think we've done an episode.

1627
01:10:28.800 --> 01:10:31.739
I don't think we've done a series 4 episode.

1628
01:10:31.800 --> 01:10:33.239
It's in a trilogy though.

1629
01:10:33.300 --> 01:10:34.380
They're all in trilogy.

1630
01:10:34.439 --> 01:10:37.979
I know, I know, but our rule is if it's a two-parter, we do both

1631
01:10:37.979 --> 01:10:41.220
parts, but if it's a trilogy, we just do the one part.

1632
01:10:41.340 --> 01:10:43.260
Which trilogy is that?

1633
01:10:43.319 --> 01:10:46.020
Like watching like, I don't know, watching like the middle or the

1634
01:10:46.020 --> 01:10:47.520
end of a trilogy is just weird.

1635
01:10:49.739 --> 01:10:52.979
The trouble with series nine.

1636
01:10:53.100 --> 01:10:59.220
Sorry, the trouble with series 4 of Enterprise is, and I haven't

1637
01:10:59.220 --> 01:11:03.600
watched it all the way through, that it is serialised all the way

1638
01:11:03.600 --> 01:11:08.399
that kind of each episode does follow on from the previous episode

1639
01:11:08.399 --> 01:11:10.319
even across the trilogies.

1640
01:11:10.380 --> 01:11:13.260
And so even though there are trilogies happening, it's still kind

1641
01:11:13.260 --> 01:11:16.979
of a continuous story, which is what impressed me, I think, when I

1642
01:11:16.979 --> 01:11:18.000
started watching it.

1643
01:11:18.060 --> 01:11:20.880
So is Kishara part of the Klingon trilogy?

1644
01:11:20.939 --> 01:11:22.920
I'm just going to find that out right now.

1645
01:11:22.979 --> 01:11:28.020
Give me a second. genre.

1646
01:11:31.079 --> 01:11:32.880
K-I-R apostrophe.

1647
01:11:33.000 --> 01:11:38.579
S-H-A-R-A. As the Enterprise travels to Andoria to warn Shran of a

1648
01:11:38.579 --> 01:11:41.939
possible surprise attack, Archer and to Paul must bring a historic

1649
01:11:41.939 --> 01:11:47.039
obelisk to the Vulcan High Command as proof of the Cyranite's true

1650
01:11:47.039 --> 01:11:48.539
intentions.

1651
01:11:48.600 --> 01:11:50.100
So it's the.

1652
01:11:51.420 --> 01:11:56.100
I think it's the 2nd Yeah, the 2nd of a trilogy.

1653
01:11:56.340 --> 01:11:58.260
It's the middle one.

1654
01:11:58.319 --> 01:11:59.579
What of what trilogy, though?

1655
01:11:59.640 --> 01:12:02.159
I think it's like the Vulcan one in that season.

1656
01:12:02.279 --> 01:12:04.319
Is there a Vulcan trilogy that season?

1657
01:12:04.380 --> 01:12:09.359
I think, Shara, the Awakening, Serenites, Vulcan High Command.

1658
01:12:09.479 --> 01:12:09.659
Yeah.

1659
01:12:10.380 --> 01:12:13.199
Well, look, maybe it's a 2-parter.

1660
01:12:13.260 --> 01:12:13.800
I'm not sure.

1661
01:12:13.859 --> 01:12:14.819
It might be a two-parter.

1662
01:12:14.880 --> 01:12:15.720
You know what?

1663
01:12:15.779 --> 01:12:16.619
It sounds complicated.

1664
01:12:16.680 --> 01:12:17.520
Press it again.

1665
01:12:18.180 --> 01:12:21.720
Well, it just means that we won't ever get to do series.

1666
01:12:21.840 --> 01:12:23.819
We have done seriously, but we're going to get to do this before.

1667
01:12:23.880 --> 01:12:24.600
Tara Prime.

1668
01:12:24.659 --> 01:12:25.859
Oh yeah, that's true.

1669
01:12:25.920 --> 01:12:26.699
That is true.

1670
01:12:26.760 --> 01:12:28.020
Let's just check.

1671
01:12:28.079 --> 01:12:28.979
If it's a two-parted.

1672
01:12:29.039 --> 01:12:32.399
Like, I don't, because whenever we do discovery, it's going to be

1673
01:12:32.399 --> 01:12:36.960
one part of a 13 parter, we can't watch all of them. so desperate

1674
01:12:36.960 --> 01:12:39.840
for you to choose something like thoroughly below average.

1675
01:12:39.899 --> 01:12:41.039
Below average.

1676
01:12:41.100 --> 01:12:41.880
Let me have a look.

1677
01:12:46.500 --> 01:12:48.420
Oh my god.

1678
01:12:58.739 --> 01:13:04.260
So I think this is the, I think this is the climax of a 3 parter

1679
01:13:04.319 --> 01:13:11.699
which seems to start with the forge, which is the Vulcan embassy

1680
01:13:11.699 --> 01:13:16.859
on Earth gets bombed, then continues with awakening and then seems

1681
01:13:16.859 --> 01:13:17.939
to end with Kashara.

1682
01:13:18.000 --> 01:13:20.819
And then the next episode is called Dedalus.

1683
01:13:20.880 --> 01:13:25.079
Because Borderline, Borderland, Cold Station 12 and the Augment is

1684
01:13:25.079 --> 01:13:26.939
the organisation. trilogy.

1685
01:13:27.000 --> 01:13:28.859
So this is the, yeah, the end of this three.

1686
01:13:29.399 --> 01:13:35.279
I kind of, I mean, I wouldn't mind doing a proper series for

1687
01:13:35.279 --> 01:13:40.920
Enterprise episode because what we did do was kind of like the

1688
01:13:40.920 --> 01:13:42.539
finale, wasn't it?

1689
01:13:42.659 --> 01:13:45.479
Like it was demons and Terra Prime, which is essentially the

1690
01:13:45.479 --> 01:13:50.460
finale of Enterprise before we go into the big finale of 90s trek

1691
01:13:50.460 --> 01:13:53.279
with that terrible episode that everyone hates.

1692
01:13:53.520 --> 01:13:56.159
Oh, yeah, I might watch the three.

1693
01:13:56.220 --> 01:13:58.140
I might try and find time to watch the three.

1694
01:13:58.140 --> 01:14:01.140
Because I don't really remember much about it and I think it'd be

1695
01:14:01.140 --> 01:14:03.180
weird just to talk about the conclusion.

1696
01:14:03.239 --> 01:14:04.260
Talk about one part.

1697
01:14:04.380 --> 01:14:07.859
I haven't seen it, like I haven't seen it before.

1698
01:14:07.920 --> 01:14:11.939
I definitely haven't seen any of them or is it too hard?

1699
01:14:12.000 --> 01:14:13.260
What do you think?

1700
01:14:13.319 --> 01:14:16.560
It's just, I don't want to, well, between now and next Tuesday, I

1701
01:14:16.560 --> 01:14:18.479
can definitely find 3 hours.

1702
01:14:18.779 --> 01:14:21.300
Yeah, I wonder if I can though.

1703
01:14:21.359 --> 01:14:22.619
I'm just letting me have a look.

1704
01:14:22.680 --> 01:14:24.060
What am I recording this weekend?

1705
01:14:25.680 --> 01:14:28.680
No, I'm not recording this weekend.

1706
01:14:29.460 --> 01:14:31.560
I reckon I can too.

1707
01:14:32.760 --> 01:14:34.439
What do you say?

1708
01:14:34.979 --> 01:14:35.399
lets do that.

1709
01:14:35.460 --> 01:14:35.699
Yeah.

1710
01:14:35.819 --> 01:14:41.279
Well, so I'm not quite sure what of all that I keep. get rid of.

1711
01:14:41.340 --> 01:14:42.420
Just let me say...

1712
01:14:42.420 --> 01:14:44.340
Imagine I've just... we just selected it.

1713
01:14:44.520 --> 01:14:46.500
And then go from here.

1714
01:14:46.859 --> 01:14:51.840
So I think that this is one that I want to do.