WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 21:58:35

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So this is, I think, the second time that we've done a two-part

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series finale series opener.

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So we've done, uh, we did Scorpion and Scorpion part two, which is

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2 years ago.

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Is that right?

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That's right And now we're 2 years on, and we're doing equinox and

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equinox part two.

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And I think perhaps the troubling thing about that was that I had

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virtually no memory of this and it seemed familiar when I watched

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it.

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I did sort of start to remember things, but this is not one that I

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think made much of a lasting impression on me.

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See, I did remember this one.

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I remember when I reviewed this for my website, and I really like

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the sort of moral areas that the episode goes into, and it does go

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to show how your opinion can change over time, because I've got a

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hell of a lot of issues with this episode now that I never did

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back in the day.

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What's interesting is scorpion and equinox both promise to shake

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up Voyager in some way.

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One with this threat that's worse than the Borg, and the other

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with this 2nd ship, which looks like it's going to be towing

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alongside Voyager for the rest of the run.

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What happens is they flirt with the idea for 2 episodes, both of

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them, then we just go back on our merry way of TNG knockoffs after

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that.

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It's a problem with this show.

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Yeah, like, I think that they're really intentionally doing this

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right?

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I think that that's coming from the studio or whatever from the

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network or from, you know, the producers that they just want to

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continue doing Star Trek the Next Generation.

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And Star Trek, the Next Generation, discovered that these big 2

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parters were hugely effective, like best of both worlds and best

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of both worlds, part 2 is incredible. you know, and no one

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expected it at the time and this is a thing that we got.

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And we're still doing it now 7 years later.

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And TV sort of has moved on a bit.

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I think that if you are only watching Star Trek, you would think

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that this was kind of normal behaviour.

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But we've got a big thing that happens.

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And I think everyone by now must have suspected that it was all

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just going to be resolved at the end of episode 2 and we would

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never speak of it again.

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And that is, of course, what happens.

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I just, I don't understand why they would bring in those crew

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members have that scene at the end of Equinox 2.

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Right, you're staying on the ship now, but we're going to be

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watching you, all right?

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And then we never mention those people ever again.

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They are just lost in the crew compliment.

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Maybe they have one scene.

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I don't know.

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But they have no significant impact on Voyager. at all.

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So what is the point?

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Yeah, and I mean, that's kind of a thing, isn't it?

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Like, that's what Voyager's doing.

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And so when you're doing that, you have 2 ways that you could go.

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You could just make sure that nothing happens that kind of shakes

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the status quo up too much because we all know that's a cheat.

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Or you can just go, no, you know, that's boring.

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We are going to do some big things.

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We're going to have a sort of giant game changing thing, and then

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part 2 will be, well, how do we get back to the status quo from

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here?

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But that's actually also kind of boring.

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And it doesn't make any sense.

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Yeah, it's a look at what the show could be for a couple of

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episodes before pulling back and saying, no, we're not going to be

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that brave.

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It's weird.

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It's weird to sort of wave the flag of potential, every sort of, I

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don't know, half season and then just go back to doing, you call

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it TNG, but it's TNG light, really, isn't it?

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Yeah.

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But I think the problem here is that 2 years ago, we had Chakotay

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contradicting Janeway's orders and having a sort of big conflict

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with her, and I think we felt that he was in the wrong, whether

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the show did or not is not entirely clear.

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I don't think it was brave enough to even... sort of explore it

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were they?

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They were just, he was this side of it.

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She was that side of it.

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And then it was just happily resolved at the end.

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Yeah, and then this time, of course, they have a conflict in

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episode 2 as well.

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And it's a much more serious conflict, I think.

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And, you know, like it's resolved in the most half-assed way

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possible.

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And we just sort of go back and it's never mentioned again.

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And you can't keep doing that, I think.

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Well, we'll have some quotes from Ron Moore in episode 2 because

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he's got a lot to say about that episode in particular as to why

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he chipped off Voyager because he just couldn't work in a writer's

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room where there were no character consequences or where nothing

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meant anything.

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That's just not the sort of TV he wanted to write.

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But I said to you off, Mike, this 2 pastors, well, and I don't

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think it's without merit, and I really quite like episode one.

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But it takes a very odd approach of the writing suggesting that

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Jane Weigh is 100% right in episode one and 100% wrong in episode

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two.

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And it's a very bizarre shift, and my issue with equinox now is I

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don't think she's right in episode one, and I don't think she's

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right in episode two.

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So I think both approaches don't work for me.

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Because I feel that she she comes across as somebody...

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You know, like when you've been floating through the Delta

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Quadrant on a walking armchair and living in the life of Riley, as

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she has, to come down as hard as she does on somebody that says

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you know, my crew was starving for 16 days and we were in a

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situation of extreme peril.

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No, no.

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And so we decided to murder a whole bunch of people.

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No, I don't think I'm completely on random size in that argument.

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No, no, no.

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And what annoys me is she doesn't even, she doesn't even

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acknowledge what he's saying at all.

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There's no there's no discussion.

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She just cuts him down and says, no, you're wrong.

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No, no.

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But I think he's very clearly wrong.

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And I actually am not entirely certain that when Janeway starts

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losing it, that she's necessarily doing the wrong thing.

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Uh, and I kind of, well, because we'll get there, I think, but

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ransom is not someone who's done some desperate things.

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He hasn't sort of boarded an Illyrianship and stolen their warp

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core.

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He's deliberately vivisected and intends to murder a large number

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of people.

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And I think that that's fairly clearly, however hungry you are. the

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wrong thing to do.

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You know, I had a nice steak last night and I wasn't in any danger

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whatsoever.

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No, no, no, no.

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And the way the, I mean, the way this show works.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Like, yes, you know, morality around eating meat and stuff is very

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complicated and the cow probably had plans for its day and all of

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that sort of thing.

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But here, I think, I think they're very clearly in the wrong.

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And I think we're given a situation where they're as bad as they

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could possibly be because they deliberately institute a program of

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experimenting on these aliens and then they intend to kill like

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dozens of them in order to use them as fuel and get home.

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So I think that that's sort of super clearly wrong.

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And I think that she has.

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What does she say about me then?

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Because I don't know.

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Well, no, I think I think that, you know, murdering people in

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order to get home.

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Like, you know, I wonder, I just put myself in their petition.

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And I'm like, how what would I do?

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And I think I would probably do the same thing.

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No, I mean, I think I think that the situation, that what's, I

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think that what's, what's the problem here is that that is such an

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extraordinarily, um, clearly evil thing to do, that how they all

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come to agree to it, you know, and there's a bit of talk about it

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in episode one when we hear his backstory and how many of his crew

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are dead and all of that sort of thing.

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So like whatever.

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But I think Janeway's reaction to him is fair enough.

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And I think too, that there's a lot to be said for just turning

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off the force fields and letting the creepy alien things just deal

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with them in their own way.

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I mean, we were supposed to let the Edo execute Wesley when he

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sort of, you know, fell into the flower bed and stuff.

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He committed a crime according to their laws.

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You know, we eventually decide to get him out of it because of

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course we do.

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But there is that thing, isn't there right from wolf in the fold

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that they've committed a crime and we don't have jurisdiction here

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but the people they committed the crime against do.

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And so I don't think it's wrong necessarily for her to do what she

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does to Rickworthy in episode two.

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I don't think she's necessarily.

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Yeah, I hate it too.

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And I think there's reasons for it, but I think that they do their

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best because at that point, remember, 3 Voyager crew members have

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been killed as a result of their behaviour.

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And that's the thing.

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I'm not saying, yeah.

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I'm not suggesting that they are in the right.

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I'm just suggesting that they're put in an impossible situation

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and they made a bad call that I would probably make myself.

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And I think the point where the call is wrong is where Voyager

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comes along and there is an option now to say, right, we did this

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wrong thing, but we've got your facilities now.

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We can get home in a safe way.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And then they, no, and then what they decide to do instead is no

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we're not, we're not going to take their help.

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We're going to continue to hurt these creatures and we're going to

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get home.

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And that's the point where I think they...

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It's not just that too.

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It's that Voyager ends up in what I think is one of the best

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things about part one.

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Voyager ends up in exactly the same situation that Equinox was.

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What do they do?

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They start pulling out their guns.

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Yeah, yeah, no, no, of course they do.

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They're under attack.

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That's fair enough.

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But remember, that's not how it started.

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They're under attack because they've been vivisecting and

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murdering people.

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I think my issue with fighting back.

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Slimers is that they are kind of portrayed as animals as well.

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They're not they don't come across as a sentient life form with

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intelligence or anything like that.

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In the back of my head, I'm like, well, he's just, like, we murder

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a load of pigs.

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He's just killed a load of slimer creatures and to get home and

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what's wrong with that.

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We're doing the same thing.

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No, no, no.

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Yeah, and that is different.

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But I think that they do communicate, don't they?

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and they are intentional and stuff.

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And I think, again, that's kind of interesting too.

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Maybe they should have been humanoids.

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Maybe they should have been like a race of people.

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That would have made it far more explicit.

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But there's something a little bit interesting about the ambiguity

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posed by how different they are from us, and maybe they're so

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different that it's impossible for the equinox crew to kind of

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include them in their, you know, moral community because they're

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just too weird looking, and that's how they manage to behave like

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this towards them.

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But you know as well.

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There have been situations in Voyages run where Janeway has made

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some pretty dodgy calls, you know.

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She, technically, murdered tubics.

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I know that's the one we all go to, but she committed murder and

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probably should be condemned for the fact.

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I don't understand how she can get on a moral high horse as much

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as she does when she has made so many questionable decisions in

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the last 5 years.

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But it's not that.

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And what it should be, what it should be is, she was presented

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with that choice in Caretaker, where she had to choose between

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getting her crew home and allowing the Cazon to kill all the

245
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Ocampa, or protecting the Ocampa, who they didn't know, you know

246
00:13:11.700 --> 00:13:16.379
they had nothing to do with them and strand themselves in the

247
00:13:16.379 --> 00:13:17.460
Delta Quadrant.

248
00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:21.899
And that's a decision that should have been visibly weighing on

249
00:13:21.899 --> 00:13:23.879
Jane Way and doesn't really.

250
00:13:23.940 --> 00:13:25.500
I mean, we get it in night.

251
00:13:25.559 --> 00:13:29.759
We get it in the finale, but it's not something that comes up all

252
00:13:29.759 --> 00:13:32.220
that often, I think, or anywhere near often enough.

253
00:13:32.279 --> 00:13:34.679
And it doesn't come up here either.

254
00:13:34.740 --> 00:13:38.399
That's the thing because the writers aren't doing any of the work

255
00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:43.379
about letting us know why the people are behaving the way they are

256
00:13:43.379 --> 00:13:47.820
and all they're interested in is the action that takes place as a

257
00:13:47.820 --> 00:13:48.179
result.

258
00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:52.080
And so I think that you get something that fills its sort of hour

259
00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:56.399
and a half and is entertaining and has incident and things happen

260
00:13:56.399 --> 00:14:00.419
and it's exciting and and all of that and there's some feels in

261
00:14:00.419 --> 00:14:01.200
there as well.

262
00:14:01.259 --> 00:14:03.720
But it's a bit empty though, I think.

263
00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:08.700
Everything feels so black and white all the time.

264
00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:12.600
It doesn't feel like there's any sort of muddy areas that we're

265
00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:13.019
exploring.

266
00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:16.500
And that's just not satisfying to watch.

267
00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:20.039
Yeah, but the deliberate choices these guys are going to commit

268
00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:21.600
mass murder in order to get home.

269
00:14:21.659 --> 00:14:25.080
So there's no moral debate about whether they've done the right

270
00:14:25.080 --> 00:14:25.740
thing or not.

271
00:14:25.799 --> 00:14:28.919
They've very clearly done the wrong thing and, you know, all of

272
00:14:28.919 --> 00:14:29.100
that.

273
00:14:29.159 --> 00:14:33.779
But what we don't get is any of the debate that you and I are

274
00:14:33.779 --> 00:14:35.879
having about this, no one really.

275
00:14:35.940 --> 00:14:38.820
You know, we're doing the writer's work.

276
00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:41.759
None of the writers are interested in examining the situation in

277
00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:42.419
any way at all.

278
00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:45.000
And how does Janeway react?

279
00:14:45.059 --> 00:14:49.320
She just reacts in a way that gets Kate to do some acting and

280
00:14:49.320 --> 00:14:51.000
that's really it.

281
00:14:51.059 --> 00:14:53.159
So extreme though, isn't it?

282
00:14:53.580 --> 00:14:55.080
I love it.

283
00:14:55.500 --> 00:14:59.159
But the trouble is, we'll put it out when we get there.

284
00:14:59.220 --> 00:15:01.679
She ain't convinced at all by this royal.

285
00:15:01.740 --> 00:15:02.399
Yeah, I know.

286
00:15:02.460 --> 00:15:05.940
And she's saying the lines, but she's not saying them all with any

287
00:15:05.940 --> 00:15:06.539
kind.

288
00:15:06.600 --> 00:15:09.480
She's going, yeah, hell break, you know?

289
00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:12.179
I actually really like that scene.

290
00:15:12.299 --> 00:15:16.019
And I like how sort of wet and pathetic Chakotay is in that too.

291
00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:18.539
Um, you know, for goodness sake.

292
00:15:18.600 --> 00:15:23.039
So we're goodness to a conclusion so we can skip in.

293
00:15:23.460 --> 00:15:28.559
The trouble is, is, I don't think anybody is convinced by this.

294
00:15:28.620 --> 00:15:33.179
I've got some quotes here from memory alpha, and you've got Joe

295
00:15:33.179 --> 00:15:36.600
Manosky, our favourite, you know, masks playing and things like

296
00:15:36.600 --> 00:15:36.779
that.

297
00:15:36.779 --> 00:15:39.360
Quote, saying we were all really exhausted.

298
00:15:39.419 --> 00:15:41.700
We didn't know what in the world we were going to do for the last

299
00:15:41.700 --> 00:15:42.179
episode.

300
00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:44.220
Branner and Rick Berman worked out.

301
00:15:44.279 --> 00:15:45.059
Some of the episode.

302
00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:49.259
We probably had a week to go before prep, but before Brandon came

303
00:15:49.259 --> 00:15:50.700
up with the idea that was workable.

304
00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:53.460
I just had no hope for it at all.

305
00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:56.519
It had the feeling of elements stitched together without a driving

306
00:15:56.519 --> 00:16:01.379
point of view, which we'll talk about. hazard and clunky structure

307
00:16:01.379 --> 00:16:02.460
and story.

308
00:16:02.639 --> 00:16:05.460
So the writer wasn't at all convinced.

309
00:16:05.580 --> 00:16:09.600
Then you got John Savage in here. and he saw, he goes, I saw

310
00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:12.120
wonderful possibilities and moments like in the relationship with

311
00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:16.080
Janeway, a man and a woman and also as captains and as people.

312
00:16:16.139 --> 00:16:19.860
I just felt like I might have unfortunately overcomplicated myself

313
00:16:19.860 --> 00:16:22.440
and had to be pulled straight by Kate.

314
00:16:22.500 --> 00:16:23.580
I didn't have to be.

315
00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:27.179
She was generous and it was a good experience, but we both had a

316
00:16:27.179 --> 00:16:28.019
lot of stuff going on.

317
00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:30.419
So there was stuff going on between the actors as well.

318
00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:33.899
And then there's quotes in now, I won't read them all, but from

319
00:16:33.899 --> 00:16:36.600
David Livingston saying everybody was at the end of their tether

320
00:16:36.600 --> 00:16:40.080
recording this, you know, like it was a punishing shoot where they

321
00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:45.000
were having to do new sets, fill it with dry eyes, all right at

322
00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:47.220
the end of the year where everyone's ready to go, you know, on the

323
00:16:47.220 --> 00:16:49.980
holiday break or whatever they do at the end of the season.

324
00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:54.059
So I feel like maybe some of that hits the screen.

325
00:16:54.120 --> 00:16:55.379
Yeah.

326
00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:59.100
Well, we're about to watch a part one that doesn't have a part 2

327
00:16:59.100 --> 00:17:01.500
written when it's finished, does it?

328
00:17:01.559 --> 00:17:04.200
Like, they haven't written part one, part two.

329
00:17:04.259 --> 00:17:05.700
They don't know where it's going to go.

330
00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:11.220
They were very lucky in best of both worlds because I reckon part

331
00:17:11.220 --> 00:17:14.519
2 of that is only barely acceptable.

332
00:17:14.579 --> 00:17:17.700
And they've, yeah, yeah.

333
00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:22.619
I think they paint themselves into such a corner that part 2 is a

334
00:17:22.619 --> 00:17:24.960
lot of standing around waiting for the situation to resolve

335
00:17:24.960 --> 00:17:25.500
itself.

336
00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:26.940
I can't wait to do that one with you.

337
00:17:27.299 --> 00:17:29.759
Maybe it's better than I remember.

338
00:17:29.819 --> 00:17:33.960
But there's absolutely no guarantee that you can pull a rabbit out

339
00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:38.400
of a hat for part 2 if you haven't set anything up in part one.

340
00:17:38.460 --> 00:17:40.079
And I think that's a problem.

341
00:17:40.140 --> 00:17:43.980
It's not a bad part one At least we've part one of Econox.

342
00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:45.660
Like I said to you off mic.

343
00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:48.779
There's all this stuff going on behind the scenes that the voyage

344
00:17:48.779 --> 00:17:51.119
crew don't know about, the Equinox crew are waiting to make them

345
00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:53.039
move and then they do at the end.

346
00:17:53.099 --> 00:17:55.079
And so there's a bit of free sort of like, oh, where's this

347
00:17:55.079 --> 00:17:55.380
going?

348
00:17:55.500 --> 00:17:58.440
And then as soon as I started episode two, right?

349
00:17:58.500 --> 00:17:59.759
And he's on the run.

350
00:17:59.819 --> 00:18:02.099
He's got 7 and 9 and all this is going on.

351
00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:05.160
Janeway's gone on a mad psychotic hunt after him.

352
00:18:05.220 --> 00:18:07.980
And I'm just like, oh, he's going to sacrifice himself at the end

353
00:18:07.980 --> 00:18:10.380
and that's going to be the end of this show.

354
00:18:10.440 --> 00:18:11.759
Like, that's how this is going to end.

355
00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:15.119
Because now he's being portrayed as a slightly nicer bloke, you

356
00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:15.359
know?

357
00:18:15.420 --> 00:18:18.420
he's going to make the right call at the end of the story.

358
00:18:19.259 --> 00:18:21.359
Well, should we go and watch it?

359
00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:25.740
I don't think it's terrible.

360
00:18:25.799 --> 00:18:29.039
I just think it is a huge missed opportunity.

361
00:18:29.099 --> 00:18:34.380
And it's a huge missed opportunity in a characteristically voyager

362
00:18:34.380 --> 00:18:36.240
way, I think, is the thing.

363
00:18:36.299 --> 00:18:39.119
Oh, sorry, I thought we were talking about the series, not this 2

364
00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:39.480
par.

365
00:18:40.259 --> 00:18:43.200
Voyager, a huge missed opportunity.

366
00:18:43.259 --> 00:18:46.619
Except when lower decks is taking the piss out of it.

367
00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:47.819
Yeah, yeah.

368
00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:49.500
Okay.

369
00:18:49.559 --> 00:18:51.119
I'm going to count it in.

370
00:18:51.180 --> 00:18:57.119
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

371
00:18:57.539 --> 00:19:01.319
You know, David Liverson is one of the best directions they have

372
00:19:01.319 --> 00:19:01.619
you know.

373
00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:05.039
So he does give this a bit of gumption, this pre-total sequence.

374
00:19:05.700 --> 00:19:11.339
I don't think this is a very good scene for some reason, and I'm

375
00:19:11.339 --> 00:19:12.180
not quite sure why.

376
00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:14.700
And I think, look at all the rocks.

377
00:19:15.180 --> 00:19:17.640
There are lots of rocks on the floor.

378
00:19:17.700 --> 00:19:19.619
It's a decent set.

379
00:19:19.740 --> 00:19:21.539
It's not a bad set, is it?

380
00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:24.299
I thought it was just a decent...

381
00:19:24.299 --> 00:19:25.019
Don't you complain?

382
00:19:25.079 --> 00:19:26.519
He's doing overhead shooting look.

383
00:19:26.579 --> 00:19:28.799
He's got the camera right above the actors. yeah, yeah.

384
00:19:28.859 --> 00:19:31.319
No, no, I think it looks quite good.

385
00:19:31.380 --> 00:19:33.240
I think that set looks sort of pretty great.

386
00:19:33.299 --> 00:19:39.539
I like, why does Deep Space 9 have shitty phaser rifles and

387
00:19:39.539 --> 00:19:41.039
Voyager has really great ones.

388
00:19:41.099 --> 00:19:41.700
Look at those.

389
00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:43.980
Well, this is just the spirit of mine is ending.

390
00:19:44.039 --> 00:19:46.380
This came out at the same time as what you leave behind, remember?

391
00:19:46.440 --> 00:19:47.640
Yeah, yeah, no I know.

392
00:19:47.700 --> 00:19:48.119
I know.

393
00:19:48.180 --> 00:19:51.180
But Voyages had these better phaser rifles all along and Deep

394
00:19:51.180 --> 00:19:54.599
Space Niners had the Balsa wood ones for some reason.

395
00:19:55.140 --> 00:19:57.059
Oh, that effect?

396
00:19:57.119 --> 00:19:59.640
Look, that guy got killed and dehydrated.

397
00:19:59.700 --> 00:20:02.640
I mean, it does look a bit like Voyager outside, doesn't it?

398
00:20:02.700 --> 00:20:03.359
In the dark.

399
00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:04.559
It does a bit.

400
00:20:04.619 --> 00:20:05.279
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

401
00:20:05.339 --> 00:20:06.960
But it's a different shape.

402
00:20:07.019 --> 00:20:08.099
Can I tell you something really funny?

403
00:20:08.819 --> 00:20:12.000
Bragger said to the special effects team.

404
00:20:12.059 --> 00:20:16.380
I want the scariest aliens we've ever seen in Star Trek.

405
00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:18.779
So the idea was that they were supposed to be presented as

406
00:20:18.779 --> 00:20:19.380
monsters.

407
00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:22.259
That's why the twist hits halfway through the episode.

408
00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:24.059
No, they were actually the victims all along.

409
00:20:24.119 --> 00:20:27.480
And that's what we got, those bloody CGI slimers.

410
00:20:27.539 --> 00:20:29.279
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

411
00:20:29.339 --> 00:20:33.299
Yeah. somebody's imagination did not stretch very far.

412
00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:37.740
Well, I mean, they were trying, and this is 2 years after they

413
00:20:37.740 --> 00:20:41.880
attempted the 8472, which again don't really work, do they?

414
00:20:41.940 --> 00:20:44.220
But it's a, it's an attempt.

415
00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:48.299
And I miss the days, you know, when a pre-tight, sorry, a title

416
00:20:48.299 --> 00:20:52.559
sequence can be Voyager, just lazily, gracefully going through a

417
00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:53.640
cloud of light like that.

418
00:20:54.240 --> 00:21:01.140
Well, I think that the Strange New World's titles do this.

419
00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:02.819
Only it's not as leisurely.

420
00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:05.160
It a bit more kind of propulsive and stuff.

421
00:21:05.220 --> 00:21:08.279
I think we've come to the conclusion that the Kersman title

422
00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:12.359
sequences are superior to the noise one. in every single way.

423
00:21:12.420 --> 00:21:13.019
Yeah.

424
00:21:13.079 --> 00:21:15.599
I still think the best one's prodigy, though, you know.

425
00:21:15.660 --> 00:21:17.339
Yeah, prodigy's great.

426
00:21:17.460 --> 00:21:19.920
I really like discovery.

427
00:21:19.980 --> 00:21:20.880
It's so strange.

428
00:21:20.940 --> 00:21:22.859
It's so different from all of the others.

429
00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:24.779
But I do remember 1st seeing this.

430
00:21:24.839 --> 00:21:26.579
I 1st watched this, right?

431
00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:27.660
Caretaker.

432
00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:30.839
Someone bought the cassette in and we had like a premiere at the

433
00:21:30.839 --> 00:21:31.019
school.

434
00:21:31.380 --> 00:21:35.099
So we were all in the classroom and I remember watching this title

435
00:21:35.099 --> 00:21:37.980
sequence and going, well, TV has never looked better than this.

436
00:21:38.220 --> 00:21:40.740
At the time, it was quite impressive.

437
00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:41.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

438
00:21:41.940 --> 00:21:44.700
Look, did you see how its Nacelles went up just before it went to

439
00:21:44.700 --> 00:21:45.839
warp amazing.

440
00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:48.779
You're the bit where the camera goes through the rings of the

441
00:21:48.779 --> 00:21:50.160
planet and there's all the rocks.

442
00:21:50.220 --> 00:21:51.299
Yeah, yeah, yeah. pretty great.

443
00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:52.500
That is pretty great.

444
00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:54.539
Here we go.

445
00:21:54.599 --> 00:21:55.740
We're in Astrometrics.

446
00:21:55.799 --> 00:22:00.240
Yes, having another PowerPoint presentation by 7 of nine.

447
00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:03.960
At least there's a bit of footage in the middle, you know, like

448
00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:05.039
normally it's just a graphic.

449
00:22:05.099 --> 00:22:07.920
Yeah, it's, it's really funny, isn't it?

450
00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:13.259
It's because they've got such a tiny screen on the bridge and say

451
00:22:13.259 --> 00:22:15.480
they have to go to Astrometrics or anything interesting.

452
00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:19.140
So we have a few people here.

453
00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:25.559
So John Savage is played, is playing Captain Ransom, and we have

454
00:22:25.559 --> 00:22:31.799
Rick Worthy, who we have talked about before, because he's the

455
00:22:31.799 --> 00:22:39.720
Zindi arboreal, uh, in series 3, uh, an ape.

456
00:22:39.779 --> 00:22:41.460
But he's really good.

457
00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:46.079
He's done a few Star Trek, I think, over the years and he's got a

458
00:22:46.079 --> 00:22:46.619
great voice.

459
00:22:46.680 --> 00:22:49.859
Like, I think his introduction is really pretty good.

460
00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:52.440
Where do I know George Savage from?

461
00:22:52.500 --> 00:22:54.059
I don't know.

462
00:22:54.119 --> 00:22:54.900
I don't know.

463
00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:58.500
Everyone talks about him in the quotes for on memory alpha and

464
00:22:58.500 --> 00:22:59.460
stuff like he's a big deal.

465
00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:00.900
And so he clearly is.

466
00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:03.480
I think he's a bit miscast, actually.

467
00:23:03.539 --> 00:23:06.960
Um, because like, did you hear that quote?

468
00:23:07.019 --> 00:23:07.799
I think he does as well.

469
00:23:07.859 --> 00:23:12.599
Yeah, don't you think, like, this is a science ship?

470
00:23:12.660 --> 00:23:16.259
And I just think he reads his too military, like he's like a

471
00:23:16.259 --> 00:23:18.119
xenobiologist or something.

472
00:23:18.180 --> 00:23:21.180
And why isn't he a little bit more of a nerd?

473
00:23:21.240 --> 00:23:22.859
And imagine if he'd been younger.

474
00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:29.460
Imagine if he'd been just a bit less forceful, like, and then you

475
00:23:29.460 --> 00:23:34.740
kind of get that he's behaving in this terrible way out of fear, or

476
00:23:34.740 --> 00:23:39.299
you get the kind of idea, like, it's more shocking, I think, when

477
00:23:39.299 --> 00:23:41.279
you discover that he's murdering you.

478
00:23:41.339 --> 00:23:42.839
Just making him a bit likeable.

479
00:23:42.900 --> 00:23:45.299
He's not very like what I want to see.

480
00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:48.599
So if we've got to like him and then found out he's been murdering

481
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:51.359
these aliens and that might be a bit more confronting.

482
00:23:51.420 --> 00:23:52.740
Why is Neelix on the bridge?

483
00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:55.799
He's got lines in this scene?

484
00:23:55.859 --> 00:23:56.940
said on the bridge?

485
00:23:57.000 --> 00:23:58.799
It's the only risk.

486
00:23:58.859 --> 00:24:02.039
Do you know, one thing I did I've become very aware of as this

487
00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:07.619
episode played out was the very TNG style plotting of it, you know

488
00:24:07.619 --> 00:24:11.579
that they present a bit of drama at the beginning.

489
00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:13.680
They meet the ship, they go over to the ship.

490
00:24:13.740 --> 00:24:17.279
They come on, we have a bit of shitty Voyager banter.

491
00:24:17.339 --> 00:24:21.839
Then we get a hint that something's wrong, we do a bit of

492
00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:24.660
investigation, they figure out that they know that something's

493
00:24:24.660 --> 00:24:27.000
wrong, they make their move, the end.

494
00:24:27.059 --> 00:24:30.539
I'm just like, you can literally plot this episode out from about

495
00:24:30.539 --> 00:24:32.579
15 minutes in as to where it's going to go.

496
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:33.480
Yeah, yeah.

497
00:24:33.539 --> 00:24:36.180
We've seen it before, you know.

498
00:24:36.420 --> 00:24:37.859
Yeah.

499
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:43.079
And this is something that, like, he's going to go on and redo

500
00:24:43.079 --> 00:24:48.059
this, isn't he, in Pegasus on Battlestar Galactica.

501
00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:54.480
And there he has the ability to do it because the situation is so

502
00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:55.200
much more desperate.

503
00:24:55.319 --> 00:24:56.700
Oh, yeah, he...

504
00:24:56.700 --> 00:24:57.779
Get it as well, isn't it?

505
00:24:57.839 --> 00:24:58.619
Absolutely.

506
00:24:58.680 --> 00:25:00.779
Yeah, so, well, you've got Michelle Forbes.

507
00:25:00.839 --> 00:25:05.039
I thought the engineering set was pretty shitty and cheap, but.

508
00:25:05.099 --> 00:25:07.799
I just, for me, I just love it when they turn the lights down and

509
00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:09.240
pump in a bit of dry ice.

510
00:25:09.299 --> 00:25:11.700
You know, we give us a little bit of it.

511
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:15.539
I know, it's the basic atmosphere, but it's an effort at least.

512
00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:17.160
I guess so.

513
00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:20.940
You know, what are those weird sort of curly whirly things hanging

514
00:25:20.940 --> 00:25:21.480
from the ceiling?

515
00:25:21.539 --> 00:25:22.380
You see that?

516
00:25:22.500 --> 00:25:23.700
Yeah, no, I did.

517
00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:25.859
Look at that terrible, desiccated gorse.

518
00:25:25.920 --> 00:25:27.180
Yeah, yeah.

519
00:25:27.240 --> 00:25:28.079
See that's pretty good.

520
00:25:28.140 --> 00:25:29.220
That is pretty great.

521
00:25:29.400 --> 00:25:31.140
Oh my.

522
00:25:31.259 --> 00:25:34.500
We haven't mentioned, you know, we've got all these Roberts on the

523
00:25:34.500 --> 00:25:34.680
screen.

524
00:25:35.160 --> 00:25:37.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

525
00:25:37.980 --> 00:25:39.900
All the Roberts are engaged in this.

526
00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:43.500
Oh well, not all of them are engaged in this away mission.

527
00:25:43.559 --> 00:25:46.740
And so this is our 1st hint that something's wrong, isn't it?

528
00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:52.380
There's some weird uh, modification being made to the, the

529
00:25:52.380 --> 00:25:54.660
propulsion system, to the warp core.

530
00:25:56.279 --> 00:26:00.599
Oh, I love, is this the, no, this is the woman underneath the boat

531
00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:01.799
kid, isn't it?

532
00:26:01.859 --> 00:26:02.400
Yeah, yeah.

533
00:26:02.460 --> 00:26:04.920
There's a brilliant jump square that really got me.

534
00:26:04.980 --> 00:26:07.380
I was watching it in the dark where the man comes out with the

535
00:26:07.380 --> 00:26:09.599
phraser screaming his head off, firing the phaser.

536
00:26:09.660 --> 00:26:10.859
I was like, that was a good moment.

537
00:26:11.099 --> 00:26:15.599
So, again, I liked Mala for a while.

538
00:26:15.660 --> 00:26:18.660
So this is this characters called Marla Gilmour.

539
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:20.700
I think she's like an ensign, isn't she?

540
00:26:20.759 --> 00:26:21.720
Ensign Gilmore.

541
00:26:21.779 --> 00:26:27.839
Um, And I kind of like, because she's the one who, when they're

542
00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:28.920
kind of sprung.

543
00:26:28.980 --> 00:26:32.279
She kind of says, oh, look, I'm kind of glad you are here.

544
00:26:32.700 --> 00:26:35.039
In a way to stop us.

545
00:26:35.099 --> 00:26:37.500
Well, she's one of the few that makes it as well, isn't she?

546
00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:39.000
She joins the Voyager crew at the end.

547
00:26:39.119 --> 00:26:41.039
Yeah, but he's never seen again.

548
00:26:41.160 --> 00:26:43.680
Her and the Borg baby are...

549
00:26:43.680 --> 00:26:46.380
They put her in sort of, you know, waste reclamation or something

550
00:26:46.380 --> 00:26:47.759
like that for the rest of the trip.

551
00:26:47.880 --> 00:26:50.279
She's shovelling shit.

552
00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:53.160
Oh, no, no, come on.

553
00:26:53.220 --> 00:26:54.539
That's wicked What?

554
00:26:54.539 --> 00:26:58.559
That's why that's why Mariner and Boiler end up doing on the

555
00:26:58.559 --> 00:26:59.220
Serenos.

556
00:26:59.339 --> 00:27:01.500
You did something very wrong.

557
00:27:01.619 --> 00:27:03.960
You're cleaning on all the cum off the walls, all right?

558
00:27:04.019 --> 00:27:05.400
the rest of the journey.

559
00:27:05.460 --> 00:27:08.339
And so here's Rick Worthy.

560
00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:13.140
And so Rick Worthy is, so his character's called Noah.

561
00:27:13.380 --> 00:27:16.799
I think he has the most beautiful voice.

562
00:27:16.859 --> 00:27:19.200
Like, I thought this scene.

563
00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:25.380
Like just just, you know, the silhouette of his face just lit just

564
00:27:25.380 --> 00:27:30.119
very slightly in the darkness and the sound of his voice and the

565
00:27:30.119 --> 00:27:31.619
calmness of his delivery.

566
00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:33.660
I thought he was really good here.

567
00:27:33.779 --> 00:27:37.559
The performance is good, but the character is just nothing, is

568
00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:37.859
he?

569
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:39.599
There's nothing to hang on to.

570
00:27:39.660 --> 00:27:40.319
No.

571
00:27:40.380 --> 00:27:42.480
Look, I mean, basically, who do you have?

572
00:27:42.539 --> 00:27:43.920
You've got 3 people on?

573
00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:44.519
4 people.

574
00:27:44.579 --> 00:27:51.839
So you've got Max, uh, um, Marla, Noah and Captain Ransom or Rudy

575
00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:52.859
to his crew.

576
00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:56.160
Um, and you've got time.

577
00:27:56.220 --> 00:27:56.640
There you go.

578
00:27:56.700 --> 00:27:57.720
There's your job scare.

579
00:27:57.779 --> 00:27:59.220
Take cover.

580
00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:00.660
This guy's called Thompson.

581
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:03.779
He's...

582
00:28:03.779 --> 00:28:04.619
Oh, bless him.

583
00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:08.400
He's got he's got Captain Decker hair.

584
00:28:08.460 --> 00:28:12.839
He's been completely traumatised by the death of the crew.

585
00:28:12.900 --> 00:28:16.859
But with those 4 characters, right, you've got 4 reasonably good

586
00:28:16.859 --> 00:28:17.880
actors there, yeah.

587
00:28:17.940 --> 00:28:19.140
Yeah, yeah.

588
00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:21.960
So do you remember when Farscape had the 2 ships going side by

589
00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:25.079
side and you cut between the 2 for like half a season?

590
00:28:25.140 --> 00:28:25.740
I've never heard of it.

591
00:28:25.799 --> 00:28:26.640
Oh, okay.

592
00:28:26.700 --> 00:28:29.460
Well, it's a wonderful science fiction show made in Australia.

593
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:31.680
You know, you may have heard of Australia.land, I think.

594
00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:35.099
And they did this.

595
00:28:35.220 --> 00:28:38.099
Another ship came along and then the 2 ships travelled side by

596
00:28:38.099 --> 00:28:40.799
side for half the season and you did half the episodes on one ship

597
00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:42.779
and half in the other and split the regulars into two.

598
00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:46.440
Now, I know Star Trek was never, it was never good.

599
00:28:46.500 --> 00:28:49.019
No, just for story reasons and for character reasons, just

600
00:28:49.019 --> 00:28:49.980
different mixes of characters.

601
00:28:50.039 --> 00:28:52.319
Almost certainly for budgetary reasons.

602
00:28:52.380 --> 00:28:57.900
Anyway, um, Star Trek was never going to do that.

603
00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:04.019
But, like, we did DS9 recently, and they had 6 episodes after the

604
00:29:04.019 --> 00:29:07.319
change in the status quo, where they played about with the ideas

605
00:29:07.319 --> 00:29:08.759
they could have done something like that.

606
00:29:09.480 --> 00:29:13.019
Yeah, and Battlestar Galactica does it, doesn't it?

607
00:29:13.079 --> 00:29:17.640
Well, Pegasus travels with Battlestar Galactica for a long time

608
00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:21.240
you know, and Michelle Forbes is in a few episodes and we discover

609
00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:22.980
the crew have been doing evil things.

610
00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:27.359
And then we get the Pegasus travelling with Galactica for like

611
00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:29.759
half a season, I think, for quite a while.

612
00:29:29.819 --> 00:29:32.700
Give these 4 characters, I don't know, 6 episodes.

613
00:29:32.759 --> 00:29:34.140
Give them some time.

614
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:35.819
Give them some good carrots work.

615
00:29:36.359 --> 00:29:38.160
But they could have.

616
00:29:38.220 --> 00:29:39.660
Yeah.

617
00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:41.099
So what do they do?

618
00:29:41.160 --> 00:29:46.140
So the, the thing that, you know, look, the place that Voyager

619
00:29:46.140 --> 00:29:50.519
goes wrong is somewhere at the suits level, isn't it?

620
00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:55.859
Because with Star Trek the Next Generation, it has basically no

621
00:29:55.859 --> 00:29:57.599
premise, doesn't it?

622
00:29:57.660 --> 00:30:00.599
It's like we're on the Federation flagship and we're taking

623
00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:02.819
delegates to Pacifica or whatever.

624
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:06.119
And it was okay because it was the 1st iteration and they were

625
00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:08.880
just telling stories and we were grateful for the story.

626
00:30:09.420 --> 00:30:11.160
Yeah, exactly.

627
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:17.400
Now, Deep Space 9 and Voyager differentiate themselves from that

628
00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:21.900
by having a stronger premise, like a more particular premise.

629
00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:25.019
And we've talked before about how much fun Voyager is when it used

630
00:30:25.019 --> 00:30:28.319
to lean into that premise in series.

631
00:30:28.380 --> 00:30:32.880
It never leaned into it to quite the degree that Ron Moore would

632
00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:34.079
have liked them to do.

633
00:30:34.140 --> 00:30:35.880
But they do do it.

634
00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:44.400
But, but, but the suits are still saying no, no serialisation, no

635
00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:47.339
changes in the status quo, you can't do a year of hell.

636
00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:51.359
Everything has to be back to the status quo ante at the end of

637
00:30:51.359 --> 00:30:52.319
each episode.

638
00:30:52.380 --> 00:30:57.059
Ron Moore paints a picture of that writer's room that nobody is

639
00:30:57.059 --> 00:30:58.619
convinced about what they're doing.

640
00:30:58.680 --> 00:31:00.779
Everybody's depressed right in this thing because they've all got

641
00:31:00.779 --> 00:31:04.319
ideas and they're being straightjacketed at every corner.

642
00:31:04.380 --> 00:31:05.519
And you know what?

643
00:31:05.579 --> 00:31:08.579
I bought a book, which was all about the 1st 2 years of Voyager.

644
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:10.799
Conception, bringing it to the screen and all this.

645
00:31:10.859 --> 00:31:14.880
And you keep getting, one, there's photographs of these sort of

646
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:16.619
men in suits, in sunglasses.

647
00:31:16.680 --> 00:31:19.380
It's like the fucking X-Files with the government coming in.

648
00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:23.880
All on the set. all the time, just scrutinising everything.

649
00:31:23.940 --> 00:31:26.279
And I think it's the death of creativity.

650
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:28.079
Yeah.

651
00:31:28.140 --> 00:31:28.799
Yeah.

652
00:31:28.920 --> 00:31:31.319
Yeah, you have to have a little bit.

653
00:31:31.380 --> 00:31:36.000
So, I mean, deep space 9 gets away with it by being overlooked.

654
00:31:36.119 --> 00:31:38.640
Yeah, so no one's looking in that direction.

655
00:31:38.700 --> 00:31:40.980
So they say, right, we're just going to do it, you know?

656
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:45.359
Don't tell anyone, but we're doing a serialisation, all right?

657
00:31:45.420 --> 00:31:46.500
Yeah.

658
00:31:46.619 --> 00:31:50.700
But what's astonishing about Voyager then is that through the

659
00:31:50.700 --> 00:31:54.839
sheer grit and talent of the actors and some of the direct, things

660
00:31:54.839 --> 00:31:57.900
like that, that the television, that the episodes are as competent

661
00:31:57.900 --> 00:31:59.339
and as enjoyable as they are.

662
00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:03.960
And I think too, there is still something to be said for the sort

663
00:32:03.960 --> 00:32:06.779
of serialised procedural version of Star Trek.

664
00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:07.859
Oh Jesus Christ.

665
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:09.839
This is the scene I warned you about.

666
00:32:09.900 --> 00:32:13.380
Belana Torres is meeting up with her old flame Max.

667
00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:14.819
Tom Paris is jealous.

668
00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:18.180
He calls her BLT because her favourite dinner was bacon lettuce

669
00:32:18.180 --> 00:32:19.259
and tomato sandwich.

670
00:32:19.259 --> 00:32:23.819
And of course, her name is... initials, but that is also a type of

671
00:32:23.819 --> 00:32:26.039
sandwich, a BLT.

672
00:32:26.099 --> 00:32:28.859
And but what's wrong with us?

673
00:32:28.920 --> 00:32:33.299
Like, we need not only to have it explained to us that their

674
00:32:33.299 --> 00:32:38.160
B'Lanas initials, we also have to have it explained to us, what a

675
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:42.539
BLT is when it's a type of sandwich that you can just buy.

676
00:32:42.599 --> 00:32:44.880
Like, why are we doing that?

677
00:32:44.940 --> 00:32:47.220
And think about the jumper, Nathan.

678
00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:50.160
Oh, you still got my jumper from back in the end.

679
00:32:50.220 --> 00:32:55.019
And then to top it all off. you get Harry Kim's line, which you

680
00:32:55.019 --> 00:32:55.799
can't even deliver.

681
00:32:55.859 --> 00:32:59.519
You cannot even deliver the terrible...

682
00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:01.740
With any kind of shitty...

683
00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:03.900
But somewhat another actor would try.

684
00:33:03.960 --> 00:33:05.700
But he goes, no, no.

685
00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:07.259
Try with what?

686
00:33:08.099 --> 00:33:09.720
You can't make bricks without straw.

687
00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:10.980
It's dreadful.

688
00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:12.420
It's so bad.

689
00:33:12.539 --> 00:33:14.460
Like, just absurd.

690
00:33:14.519 --> 00:33:17.039
And so we're wasting time with this.

691
00:33:17.099 --> 00:33:18.180
It's so weird.

692
00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:19.440
I just don't buy any of that.

693
00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:22.259
Friendships or their romantic relationship.

694
00:33:22.259 --> 00:33:25.500
Always sounds so grumpy.

695
00:33:25.559 --> 00:33:27.000
Yeah.

696
00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:32.640
But, and like Max, like, is that humanising Max, what's

697
00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:32.819
happening?

698
00:33:32.819 --> 00:33:36.240
Because he's going to become the big bad by episode 2 for some

699
00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:36.599
reason.

700
00:33:36.660 --> 00:33:38.339
No, November.

701
00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:40.019
It's the line at the end of this episode.

702
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:42.480
He's doing the maneuver that I showed him.

703
00:33:42.539 --> 00:33:43.440
Do you remember?

704
00:33:45.059 --> 00:33:46.799
Oh, that's right.

705
00:33:46.859 --> 00:33:51.900
And she, but she, she gets, like, he says that about her, doesn't

706
00:33:51.900 --> 00:33:52.079
he?

707
00:33:52.140 --> 00:33:56.640
He says, odd, because it's when they're trying to beam the field

708
00:33:56.640 --> 00:33:59.400
generator or whatever the hell off the ship.

709
00:33:59.460 --> 00:34:02.519
You know what I'd find more convincing is if he came on the shit

710
00:34:02.519 --> 00:34:02.940
right?

711
00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:05.579
Yeah, beyond Tom Paris's back, they just fucked, you know?

712
00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:08.340
And I'd be like, okay, I believe in the relationship here.

713
00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:09.360
She's like, come on.

714
00:34:09.420 --> 00:34:11.880
I've always really fancied let's go in the turbo lift.

715
00:34:11.940 --> 00:34:15.000
Yeah, except I think that that's a waste.

716
00:34:15.059 --> 00:34:17.219
Like, this is something, isn't it?

717
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:21.000
Like she's scared to go on the turbo lift.

718
00:34:21.059 --> 00:34:24.179
There's something, but you know what's annoying is there is no

719
00:34:24.179 --> 00:34:28.500
other point in voyages run where you hear electricity zipping

720
00:34:28.500 --> 00:34:30.300
around the turbo lift, right?

721
00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:34.199
At no other point, except for this point, where we need the sound

722
00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:35.880
effect that sounds just like the slimers.

723
00:34:35.940 --> 00:34:38.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

724
00:34:38.519 --> 00:34:39.719
Yeah.

725
00:34:39.780 --> 00:34:42.480
So, I mean, that, I don't know.

726
00:34:42.539 --> 00:34:45.960
And she's sort of saying she's scared of the turbo lift, and then

727
00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:50.099
later on, when they send her to crawl through a thing, they just

728
00:34:50.099 --> 00:34:53.219
say, oh, you'll have to keep your claustrophobia in check and she

729
00:34:53.219 --> 00:34:54.539
goes, oh yeah, all right, I'll do that.

730
00:34:54.599 --> 00:34:55.679
She's like what?

731
00:34:55.739 --> 00:34:59.519
You know, like, like, it's so...

732
00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:02.579
And it's a tiny face, whereas that turbo lift was quite big, you

733
00:35:02.579 --> 00:35:02.820
know?

734
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:06.059
Yeah, it's really, really in there, isn't it?

735
00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:08.940
Where was you remember when we made a thing of that in By

736
00:35:08.940 --> 00:35:12.539
Inferno's Light when Garak and Marcel and Wolf go?

737
00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:14.639
It takes a brave man to face his fears, you know.

738
00:35:15.780 --> 00:35:17.820
Yeah, but he's scared.

739
00:35:17.880 --> 00:35:20.579
You know, they don't switch off the claustrophobic.

740
00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:21.840
Switching, isn't he?

741
00:35:21.900 --> 00:35:23.820
He's talking to him to do it for plot reasons.

742
00:35:24.119 --> 00:35:27.480
They're just not working on the same level, though, are they?

743
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:28.559
In terms of characterisation?

744
00:35:28.619 --> 00:35:29.219
No.

745
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:30.179
No.

746
00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:33.000
Oh, dear.

747
00:35:33.059 --> 00:35:34.860
I knew we were going to have fun talking about this, you know.

748
00:35:34.920 --> 00:35:36.900
I knew it was gonna be...

749
00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:43.199
And so, so all of this stuff, like now that I'm watching it again

750
00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:48.059
where they're looking really shifty, and it's 2 men looking really

751
00:35:48.059 --> 00:35:54.000
shifty, while, you know, the, I mean, you know, naturally Tim Russ

752
00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:55.079
doesn't have any lines.

753
00:35:55.139 --> 00:35:58.679
So it's 2 women, um, you know, talking about it and they're

754
00:35:58.679 --> 00:36:00.360
looking shifty and they're talking about how to deal with the

755
00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:01.199
slimes and stuff.

756
00:36:01.260 --> 00:36:04.559
Whereas these guys are clearly looking guilty because they know

757
00:36:04.559 --> 00:36:06.179
what it is they're talking about.

758
00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:10.380
Oh, and because Savage is ransom savage.

759
00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:13.739
Ransom is lying here too, isn't he?

760
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:18.179
Yeah, it's... heartheartedly trying to cover his tracks at this

761
00:36:18.179 --> 00:36:18.360
point.

762
00:36:18.420 --> 00:36:19.139
Yeah.

763
00:36:19.139 --> 00:36:23.099
No, he's trying to get them from going into the research lab.

764
00:36:23.159 --> 00:36:25.679
So he says it's full of thermionic radiation.

765
00:36:25.739 --> 00:36:29.099
Oh, I do like it when they blast the shit out of a set like this.

766
00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:30.480
Look all that debris everywhere.

767
00:36:30.539 --> 00:36:30.900
Yeah.

768
00:36:30.900 --> 00:36:34.800
I actually like those the consoles that they're standing out there

769
00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:36.059
sort of big and hefty.

770
00:36:36.119 --> 00:36:38.159
I think that's quite a decent bridge set.

771
00:36:38.219 --> 00:36:40.199
And I quote a line that I just heard.

772
00:36:40.380 --> 00:36:41.579
I know it's going to annoy you a lot.

773
00:36:41.639 --> 00:36:42.539
Yeah.

774
00:36:42.599 --> 00:36:47.159
He goes, so how are we going to catch these fits, these fish, and

775
00:36:47.159 --> 00:36:49.500
she goes, we're going to have to build a net.

776
00:36:49.619 --> 00:36:51.300
I'm like, oh, gosh, really?

777
00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:57.719
They did say they were exhausted, the writers, remember.

778
00:36:58.679 --> 00:37:00.719
Yeah, yeah.

779
00:37:00.780 --> 00:37:04.380
So here we get the thing where we're comparing notes on what's

780
00:37:04.380 --> 00:37:07.320
happening and...

781
00:37:07.380 --> 00:37:09.539
It should have been a lot more fun than it was, though, right?

782
00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:12.420
She goes, well, you know, she should have said, oh, I came up

783
00:37:12.420 --> 00:37:15.420
against a VR version of fear, you know, that was Michael McKeon.

784
00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:16.920
Yeah, played by Michael McKean.

785
00:37:16.980 --> 00:37:17.159
Yeah.

786
00:37:17.219 --> 00:37:21.420
No, so he has 39 crew die in the 1st week.

787
00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:28.260
So half of his crew are dead at the, at, you know, and not, not

788
00:37:28.260 --> 00:37:31.980
like, you know, the medical officer on Voyager dies or whatever

789
00:37:31.980 --> 00:37:35.820
the 2nd in command, but like half of his crew are killed by

790
00:37:35.820 --> 00:37:37.079
hostile aliens.

791
00:37:37.139 --> 00:37:39.000
Uh, and...

792
00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:41.519
I don't know.

793
00:37:41.579 --> 00:37:44.340
I just don't think the debate they end up having.

794
00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:47.639
They've had such different experiences in it. regardless of what

795
00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:48.119
he's done.

796
00:37:48.179 --> 00:37:50.519
They have had completely different experiences in the Dow

797
00:37:50.519 --> 00:37:51.059
Quadron.

798
00:37:51.119 --> 00:37:54.360
So, she can't really condemn him.

799
00:37:54.420 --> 00:37:56.039
I don't think.

800
00:37:56.219 --> 00:37:56.760
Oh, she can.

801
00:37:56.820 --> 00:37:58.079
It's it's a mess.

802
00:37:58.139 --> 00:37:58.739
I don't like it.

803
00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:01.320
You know, it doesn't matter where you're sitting.

804
00:38:01.380 --> 00:38:03.300
It's a bunch of cows.

805
00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:06.179
But it isn't, is it?

806
00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:07.079
Like, that's the thing.

807
00:38:07.139 --> 00:38:08.400
And that's a discovery.

808
00:38:08.699 --> 00:38:11.880
They're not just, it's not that they're monsters attacking us

809
00:38:11.880 --> 00:38:13.079
because they're monsters.

810
00:38:13.139 --> 00:38:16.679
They are attacking us because we've been killing them, you know?

811
00:38:16.739 --> 00:38:19.619
Do you think about the lesser species when you sink your teeth

812
00:38:19.619 --> 00:38:20.519
into a lamb chop?

813
00:38:20.639 --> 00:38:22.139
No, sometimes.

814
00:38:22.199 --> 00:38:25.739
Like, I think that there's, look, I think that there's really

815
00:38:25.739 --> 00:38:31.260
really strong moral arguments for vegetarianism, and I think that

816
00:38:31.260 --> 00:38:38.820
as human beings, we kill 10s of 1000000000s of animals a year to

817
00:38:38.820 --> 00:38:40.860
feed ourselves, and we don't believe that.

818
00:38:40.920 --> 00:38:42.059
I just taste so good.

819
00:38:42.119 --> 00:38:43.619
Yeah that's right.

820
00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:45.059
They're made of meat.

821
00:38:46.199 --> 00:38:50.039
Now, look, this sign's very important, you know, this sign.

822
00:38:50.099 --> 00:38:51.599
He's picking up the equinox side.

823
00:38:51.659 --> 00:38:55.079
And in the 2nd episode, we have a very similar scene, don't we

824
00:38:55.079 --> 00:38:56.159
between JY and Chakotay?

825
00:38:56.219 --> 00:38:59.280
A bad scene between Janeway and Jakota.

826
00:38:59.340 --> 00:39:00.000
We'll get it.

827
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:03.539
This is where we 1st get them actually talking.

828
00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:06.480
So this is when we 1st find out what the deal is.

829
00:39:06.599 --> 00:39:09.119
This is the stuff I love, all this sort of clandestine

830
00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:11.340
conversations, you know, we're going to make our move soon

831
00:39:11.340 --> 00:39:11.699
Nathan.

832
00:39:11.820 --> 00:39:12.179
All right.

833
00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:14.639
The podcast audience won't suspect a thing.

834
00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:19.440
But I actually, I like this episode for this reason.

835
00:39:19.500 --> 00:39:20.639
You know, we get together.

836
00:39:20.699 --> 00:39:21.719
There's a new ship.

837
00:39:21.780 --> 00:39:22.559
The ship looks really great.

838
00:39:22.980 --> 00:39:26.400
We discover some new things about the Delta Quadrant.

839
00:39:26.460 --> 00:39:27.840
We're meeting new people.

840
00:39:27.900 --> 00:39:29.579
We're getting to know them, all of that.

841
00:39:29.639 --> 00:39:31.139
I think that's all quite fun.

842
00:39:31.380 --> 00:39:34.800
And I like this as well.

843
00:39:34.860 --> 00:39:36.780
Like, I kind of like this.

844
00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:41.880
I just wish that the villains weren't such boring white men. don't

845
00:39:41.880 --> 00:39:42.059
know.

846
00:39:43.260 --> 00:39:45.960
This guy is pretty good too, Max.

847
00:39:46.019 --> 00:39:49.980
He's got a kind of thing about him, don't you think?

848
00:39:50.039 --> 00:39:51.539
In a sort of white bread way.

849
00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:52.380
He's kind of cute.

850
00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:53.280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

851
00:39:53.340 --> 00:39:54.840
So here's Rick Worthy.

852
00:39:54.900 --> 00:39:56.820
And I think he's really great.

853
00:39:56.880 --> 00:39:59.820
I did try and find out as much about his personal life as I

854
00:39:59.820 --> 00:40:03.179
possibly could because I think he's a good looking man, and

855
00:40:03.179 --> 00:40:06.659
there's nothing...

856
00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:11.820
No, no, but I was kind of, you know, searching the internet for

857
00:40:11.820 --> 00:40:12.719
any information about him.

858
00:40:12.780 --> 00:40:15.059
If we were doing this now, private man.

859
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:17.760
If we were doing this story now, equinox, yeah.

860
00:40:17.940 --> 00:40:22.260
I think it would run like, I don't know, half a season and they

861
00:40:22.260 --> 00:40:25.019
would integrate with the crew and the shocks would come way

862
00:40:25.019 --> 00:40:25.380
later.

863
00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:26.400
Yeah.

864
00:40:26.460 --> 00:40:27.119
Yeah.

865
00:40:27.179 --> 00:40:27.539
Yeah.

866
00:40:27.599 --> 00:40:30.179
Because it's Star Trek Border, John, we got to get to the point.

867
00:40:30.179 --> 00:40:33.539
So we can get back to, you know, turning the crew evil or whatever

868
00:40:33.539 --> 00:40:34.380
we're going to do next week.

869
00:40:34.500 --> 00:40:40.199
Well, so I think, you know, given that we have these short seasons

870
00:40:40.199 --> 00:40:45.000
now, I think that that it, you know, the season becomes about

871
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:45.539
this.

872
00:40:45.599 --> 00:40:47.099
Do you know what I mean?

873
00:40:47.159 --> 00:40:51.239
Like this could propeller season, I think, of sort of 10

874
00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:51.539
episodes.

875
00:40:51.599 --> 00:40:53.519
It's like what they did in Discovery with...

876
00:40:53.579 --> 00:40:56.219
I mean, it's a different story, but it's they introduced a

877
00:40:56.219 --> 00:41:00.840
character that was one thing, Vox, Tyler, in Discovery, you know?

878
00:41:00.900 --> 00:41:05.039
And then they waited half a season before they dropped that he was

879
00:41:05.099 --> 00:41:09.239
the enemy and then did shocking and interesting things with it.

880
00:41:09.300 --> 00:41:10.320
Yeah.

881
00:41:10.380 --> 00:41:16.980
Whereas, whereas I think that if we want to do something that can

882
00:41:16.980 --> 00:41:22.619
just be watched on its own terms, and that, that isn't serialised

883
00:41:22.619 --> 00:41:25.920
and all of that, that the right approach is strangely worlds, and

884
00:41:25.920 --> 00:41:32.760
strangely worlds, isn't serialised, uh, at all, really, you know

885
00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:35.460
like from one episode to the other things can be very different

886
00:41:35.460 --> 00:41:42.360
indeed, but every previously on, is a montage of clips of the

887
00:41:42.360 --> 00:41:46.619
characters interacting with each other because the things that

888
00:41:46.619 --> 00:41:51.119
they do and say to one another have an effect and continue to

889
00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:52.679
matter from episode to episode.

890
00:41:52.739 --> 00:41:54.900
And that's what we're invested.

891
00:41:54.960 --> 00:41:56.519
Yes, exactly right.

892
00:41:56.579 --> 00:41:59.099
We're invested in them after what?

893
00:41:59.159 --> 00:42:00.300
How many episodes have we had?

894
00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:00.780
20?

895
00:42:01.019 --> 00:42:05.579
invest myself and these people who reset every single week and

896
00:42:05.579 --> 00:42:07.019
forget the lessons they learned right.

897
00:42:07.019 --> 00:42:08.579
Exactly.

898
00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:11.880
And they don't have to be referring all the time to what they do

899
00:42:11.880 --> 00:42:13.860
what they did last week.

900
00:42:13.920 --> 00:42:20.460
But it's absolutely indefensible that 2 years apart, we have this

901
00:42:20.460 --> 00:42:25.980
massive leadership crisis between Chakotay and Janeway.

902
00:42:26.039 --> 00:42:30.840
It's not, you know, we're not mentioning 8472 now because people

903
00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:35.039
might not have watched that and so we can't mention it and we, you

904
00:42:35.039 --> 00:42:37.739
know, like, and we never learn from this.

905
00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:40.679
We're doing a huge giant thing that's just swept under the rug at

906
00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:41.460
the end of the episode.

907
00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:45.900
They want to sort of flirt with making the captain commander

908
00:42:45.900 --> 00:42:47.039
relationship really interesting.

909
00:42:47.099 --> 00:42:49.079
I just can't follow through.

910
00:42:49.139 --> 00:42:54.179
But the DS1 approach was to have Cisco and Kira, so it's a man and

911
00:42:54.179 --> 00:42:54.719
a woman again.

912
00:42:54.900 --> 00:43:00.179
And she's his religious icon, you know, and that's, and so there's

913
00:43:00.179 --> 00:43:01.739
so many interesting things and they do.

914
00:43:01.800 --> 00:43:02.460
They explore it.

915
00:43:02.820 --> 00:43:04.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

916
00:43:05.039 --> 00:43:08.699
You know, I was just thinking there, you know, like, you know, the

917
00:43:08.699 --> 00:43:12.179
15th time that a wormhole turns up and Harry Kim gets really

918
00:43:12.179 --> 00:43:12.599
excited.

919
00:43:12.659 --> 00:43:16.380
Someone should just say, Harry, have you not learned from the last

920
00:43:16.380 --> 00:43:18.539
14 times a wormhole came along?

921
00:43:18.539 --> 00:43:21.119
And it went spectacularly badly.

922
00:43:21.659 --> 00:43:24.000
That's the frustration for me.

923
00:43:24.360 --> 00:43:25.860
Yeah.

924
00:43:25.920 --> 00:43:27.059
Yeah, yeah.

925
00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:30.059
I mean, he's so obviously evil in this scene as well.

926
00:43:30.119 --> 00:43:33.239
He's got his little pad there downloading from engineering.

927
00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:37.980
In fact, in the foreground of that shot earlier, it just is

928
00:43:37.980 --> 00:43:41.880
flashing download in progress in large red letters on the screen.

929
00:43:42.179 --> 00:43:45.900
What he should have said is when she goes, oh yeah, it's Tom

930
00:43:45.900 --> 00:43:46.500
Paris.

931
00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:49.019
He should have gone, oh, you're going out with him.

932
00:43:49.079 --> 00:43:49.860
Really?

933
00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:52.019
Like your standards of drops.

934
00:43:53.219 --> 00:43:57.119
So, and they're going to go out to dinner together or something

935
00:43:57.119 --> 00:43:57.599
tonight.

936
00:43:57.659 --> 00:43:58.320
Is that it?

937
00:43:58.380 --> 00:43:59.460
Like a blah, blah, blah.

938
00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:01.920
But like, I mean, it's just so shit as well.

939
00:44:01.980 --> 00:44:04.739
An old boyfriend just happens to be one of the few surviving

940
00:44:04.739 --> 00:44:06.300
members of the equinox crew.

941
00:44:06.300 --> 00:44:09.239
Just to inject a little bit of character in this, you know.

942
00:44:09.300 --> 00:44:12.840
But there's they've got that's the problem, isn't it?

943
00:44:12.900 --> 00:44:18.659
Like this is kind of using up time. that could have been devoted

944
00:44:18.659 --> 00:44:26.400
to examining what they had done, you know, and how they felt about

945
00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:27.179
what they were doing.

946
00:44:27.239 --> 00:44:30.119
We get a sense of that from Marla.

947
00:44:30.179 --> 00:44:35.820
We get a sense from Marla that she feels bad about what's

948
00:44:35.820 --> 00:44:36.599
happened.

949
00:44:36.659 --> 00:44:41.579
But then when everyone breaks out of Voyager and heads back to the

950
00:44:41.579 --> 00:44:42.300
equinox.

951
00:44:42.360 --> 00:44:44.400
She goes with them, but we don't know why.

952
00:44:44.460 --> 00:44:49.619
With no hint of like that she doesn't think it's the right thing

953
00:44:49.619 --> 00:44:49.980
to do.

954
00:44:50.039 --> 00:44:51.119
You know, she's like, right.

955
00:44:51.179 --> 00:44:52.739
I'm there, captain, I'll be behind you.

956
00:44:52.800 --> 00:44:53.219
Let's go.

957
00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:56.460
So do we understand that she was bunging it on earlier?

958
00:44:56.519 --> 00:44:58.920
Like she was saying all that for their benefit.

959
00:44:58.980 --> 00:45:02.039
But then that sounds just interpreting it. not there in the text.

960
00:45:02.099 --> 00:45:04.739
No, because no one's, no one's thinking about it.

961
00:45:04.860 --> 00:45:07.320
No one who's writing this is thinking about any of this.

962
00:45:07.380 --> 00:45:08.699
Straighting, isn't it?

963
00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:13.920
And so we have that holodeck thing, which is being introduced

964
00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:21.300
which will play a big part in part 2 and it's very bad, I think.

965
00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:24.719
I think the part it plays in part 2 is very, very bad because

966
00:45:24.719 --> 00:45:29.219
there's one interesting thing that happens in part two, which is

967
00:45:29.219 --> 00:45:33.480
that ransom starts to regret what he's done, but he doesn't do

968
00:45:33.480 --> 00:45:36.420
that for any reason as far as I can tell.

969
00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:39.360
I think it's just because he fancies 7 of nine, you know.

970
00:45:39.420 --> 00:45:43.320
In those very bizarre scenes where they're hanging out on virtual

971
00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:44.039
reality beach.

972
00:45:44.099 --> 00:45:46.500
It's ridiculous. very bad, I think.

973
00:45:46.559 --> 00:45:50.219
I can just see Ron Moore tearing his hair out going, why are we

974
00:45:50.219 --> 00:45:52.019
doing virtual reality with 7 or 9?

975
00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:53.519
Oh, because she'll look pretty.

976
00:45:53.579 --> 00:45:55.440
She'll look pretty on the beach, wouldn't she?

977
00:45:55.500 --> 00:45:56.639
They look great on the screen.

978
00:45:57.300 --> 00:45:58.619
Okay.

979
00:45:58.619 --> 00:45:59.880
Here's Naomi.

980
00:45:59.880 --> 00:46:01.320
Oh, Nathan, save me.

981
00:46:01.440 --> 00:46:02.880
Hello.

982
00:46:02.940 --> 00:46:05.340
I'm Ambassador Wildman. pleased to meet you.

983
00:46:05.639 --> 00:46:09.360
And I think that's kind of cute and it humanises her.

984
00:46:09.420 --> 00:46:10.800
Well, you would, wouldn't you?

985
00:46:10.860 --> 00:46:15.900
Except, so, like, I mean, you know, like, I'm quite happy she's a

986
00:46:15.900 --> 00:46:16.500
little girl.

987
00:46:16.559 --> 00:46:18.539
It's nice having a little girl on the Enterprise, whatever.

988
00:46:18.599 --> 00:46:20.639
But we have this conversation.

989
00:46:20.699 --> 00:46:25.800
She says something about how she felt when she was her age.

990
00:46:25.860 --> 00:46:30.119
No, or her nephew's the same age and you kind of go, the same

991
00:46:30.119 --> 00:46:30.420
age.

992
00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:31.139
Like, what?

993
00:46:31.199 --> 00:46:32.280
How old is she?

994
00:46:32.340 --> 00:46:34.079
She's 3 isn't she?

995
00:46:34.199 --> 00:46:36.059
Like, when is she born?

996
00:46:36.119 --> 00:46:39.599
We've been in the Delta Quadrant for 5 years, we say it in

997
00:46:39.599 --> 00:46:41.280
Thailand. of course.

998
00:46:41.340 --> 00:46:42.300
Yeah, that's terrible.

999
00:46:42.360 --> 00:46:44.159
I didn't even notice this episode.

1000
00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:48.119
Remember, Nathan, they weren't exhausted.

1001
00:46:48.179 --> 00:46:48.420
Okay?

1002
00:46:48.480 --> 00:46:49.619
Yeah, yeah.

1003
00:46:49.679 --> 00:46:50.280
No, no.

1004
00:46:50.340 --> 00:46:53.340
We pull the same shit with Alexander who grows up like a soap

1005
00:46:53.340 --> 00:46:56.340
opera character because babies are boring and you can't write

1006
00:46:56.340 --> 00:46:57.239
stories about them.

1007
00:46:57.239 --> 00:46:59.639
And, you know, that's why it's happening.

1008
00:46:59.699 --> 00:47:03.119
But like it grows like a decade, you know, in one year.

1009
00:47:04.380 --> 00:47:08.219
But I'll tell you what, thank God we got rid of fucking Brian

1010
00:47:08.219 --> 00:47:09.059
Bosnell.

1011
00:47:09.300 --> 00:47:11.340
Yes, by this.

1012
00:47:11.400 --> 00:47:11.639
Yes.

1013
00:47:11.699 --> 00:47:13.139
I'll say, here we go.

1014
00:47:13.199 --> 00:47:18.059
The equinox crew now, in their dark, dingy set, you know, scheming

1015
00:47:18.059 --> 00:47:18.840
amongst themselves.

1016
00:47:18.900 --> 00:47:19.800
I like all this.

1017
00:47:20.460 --> 00:47:23.099
We can't let Voyager stop us now.

1018
00:47:23.159 --> 00:47:29.460
And so no one here is saying, actually, the people on Voyager are

1019
00:47:29.460 --> 00:47:35.760
well fed and uh, you know, uh, not living the way that we've been

1020
00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:37.380
living for the past 5 years.

1021
00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:41.340
You know, they're still far from home, but they have each other.

1022
00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:45.960
Maybe we could stop murdering people.

1023
00:47:46.019 --> 00:47:48.780
Yeah, that's exactly what she should have happened.

1024
00:47:48.840 --> 00:47:52.619
And there's no, but no, no one, no one even brings it up as a

1025
00:47:52.619 --> 00:47:53.039
possibility.

1026
00:47:53.400 --> 00:47:56.340
You know, like no one even suggests it.

1027
00:47:56.400 --> 00:48:02.219
All they're doing is functional dialogue about power couplings and

1028
00:48:02.219 --> 00:48:02.579
shit.

1029
00:48:02.639 --> 00:48:05.280
And this is the stuff that Ron Moore was complaining about, wasn't

1030
00:48:05.280 --> 00:48:05.460
it?

1031
00:48:05.519 --> 00:48:10.019
We're going to stand around and explain the plans which we're

1032
00:48:10.019 --> 00:48:11.579
about to see happening.

1033
00:48:11.639 --> 00:48:15.539
Like, it's not like we're going to be mystified as to why they

1034
00:48:15.539 --> 00:48:18.300
behave in a certain way in a little while and we needed this scene

1035
00:48:18.300 --> 00:48:21.420
but they're happy to write that sort of dialogue.

1036
00:48:21.480 --> 00:48:24.840
It's the one point where they could so easily have made the right

1037
00:48:24.840 --> 00:48:26.940
call and choose not to.

1038
00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:27.300
Yeah.

1039
00:48:27.300 --> 00:48:27.539
Yeah.

1040
00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:30.960
Whereas they do they do at least paint the picture that when they

1041
00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:34.619
did the terrible thing in the past, they were in a corner, you

1042
00:48:34.619 --> 00:48:34.800
know?

1043
00:48:34.860 --> 00:48:36.119
So they made a decision.

1044
00:48:36.179 --> 00:48:38.760
It was the wrong decision, but they made that decision because

1045
00:48:38.760 --> 00:48:40.739
there was, they felt there was no other way.

1046
00:48:40.800 --> 00:48:43.380
Well, here they can just say, do you know what, Captain?

1047
00:48:43.440 --> 00:48:44.699
I did this terrible thing.

1048
00:48:44.820 --> 00:48:46.980
I want to join forces with your crew.

1049
00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:50.039
I want, I will go into a sale because I did a terrible thing

1050
00:48:50.039 --> 00:48:52.860
against the prime directive and my crew can integrate with yours

1051
00:48:52.860 --> 00:48:53.940
and let's all go.

1052
00:48:53.940 --> 00:48:54.659
Prime directive.

1053
00:48:54.719 --> 00:48:58.019
Like, whatever is something... about not murdering.

1054
00:48:58.079 --> 00:49:01.320
This is where he basically becomes a supervillain because he just

1055
00:49:01.320 --> 00:49:03.480
decides, no, no, no, we're going to get home.

1056
00:49:03.539 --> 00:49:05.880
We're going to leave them there and we're going to murder a load

1057
00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:07.019
of people just because we can.

1058
00:49:07.139 --> 00:49:12.000
And and like, but like no one is thinking about anything beyond

1059
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:15.480
the action that we want to have happen on screen.

1060
00:49:15.539 --> 00:49:19.019
And so no one's looking at the characters and going, what are you

1061
00:49:19.019 --> 00:49:21.179
thinking now, what do you want now?

1062
00:49:21.239 --> 00:49:23.820
What do you think of what ransom is saying?

1063
00:49:23.880 --> 00:49:26.699
None of that stuff is happening at all.

1064
00:49:26.760 --> 00:49:29.699
So you got to remember, Ron Moore's not involved at this point.

1065
00:49:29.760 --> 00:49:31.500
He doesn't come in until next series.

1066
00:49:31.559 --> 00:49:34.559
So he's probably flicking through this script and he's on his sick

1067
00:49:34.559 --> 00:49:35.519
whiskey bar now.

1068
00:49:36.780 --> 00:49:40.500
And he's got a load of notes that's longer than the script itself

1069
00:49:40.500 --> 00:49:42.780
going, why does that go?

1070
00:49:42.840 --> 00:49:44.579
Who's, I don't understand any of this.

1071
00:49:45.179 --> 00:49:49.920
So he has an idea of what to do with this.

1072
00:49:51.179 --> 00:49:53.280
Oh, here we go.

1073
00:49:53.340 --> 00:49:56.280
So we send the doctor in because he can cope with the thermionic

1074
00:49:56.280 --> 00:49:56.639
radiation.

1075
00:49:56.699 --> 00:49:58.079
Do you know what that works?

1076
00:49:58.079 --> 00:49:59.639
That makes the discovery now.

1077
00:49:59.699 --> 00:50:00.659
Yeah, yeah.

1078
00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:04.500
And I think the discoveries like it properly shocking as well.

1079
00:50:05.159 --> 00:50:09.840
I do think they shouldn't have been acting suspicious before this

1080
00:50:09.840 --> 00:50:11.940
point. to make this twist land.

1081
00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:14.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

1082
00:50:15.239 --> 00:50:16.980
They were tired.

1083
00:50:18.239 --> 00:50:21.300
The writers, the actors, the director.

1084
00:50:21.960 --> 00:50:25.260
But there is a sort of Star Trek, there's a sort of

1085
00:50:25.260 --> 00:50:28.199
straightforwardness, like the fact that they're not doing anything

1086
00:50:28.199 --> 00:50:30.119
too interesting with the script.

1087
00:50:30.119 --> 00:50:34.019
And you, you know, so it's just being revealed to us in the order

1088
00:50:34.019 --> 00:50:35.219
that it happens or whatever.

1089
00:50:35.280 --> 00:50:36.360
But you're right.

1090
00:50:36.420 --> 00:50:38.940
They hold off for a while.

1091
00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:45.179
I mean, how far into the episode, are we, with 30 minutes in?

1092
00:50:45.239 --> 00:50:48.780
So they hold off to about sort of 20, you know, about halfway

1093
00:50:48.780 --> 00:50:51.960
through the episode and then we have that conversation in the mess

1094
00:50:51.960 --> 00:50:55.320
hall where it becomes clear that they're bad guys.

1095
00:50:56.579 --> 00:51:00.599
But we've spoiled it by having that big dumb conversation where

1096
00:51:00.599 --> 00:51:04.500
they all stand around talking and it would have been better to

1097
00:51:04.500 --> 00:51:05.820
have just waited, wouldn't it?

1098
00:51:05.880 --> 00:51:06.599
That's exactly it.

1099
00:51:06.659 --> 00:51:11.039
We should have just waited. half an hour of them being, you know

1100
00:51:11.039 --> 00:51:14.400
like, oh, thank God we found you. and the captain being charming

1101
00:51:14.400 --> 00:51:17.039
as hell and having lovely scenes with Janeway and all of this.

1102
00:51:17.099 --> 00:51:19.320
But just with a few hints that something's gone wrong.

1103
00:51:19.380 --> 00:51:22.079
Maybe a bit of dialogue here or there when something doesn't make

1104
00:51:22.079 --> 00:51:24.719
sense. and you can have music going, I can discover.

1105
00:51:24.780 --> 00:51:27.480
I couldn't help you notice you said about, da, da, you know

1106
00:51:27.480 --> 00:51:28.199
something like that.

1107
00:51:28.260 --> 00:51:29.519
And then the twist is.

1108
00:51:29.579 --> 00:51:29.940
Yeah.

1109
00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:33.960
But also, I think the techno babble in this scene is fighting

1110
00:51:33.960 --> 00:51:35.099
against it as well.

1111
00:51:35.159 --> 00:51:39.539
The more he talks about nucleonic energy and and, you know, fucking

1112
00:51:39.539 --> 00:51:42.420
cellular base pairs and all of that sort of thing.

1113
00:51:42.480 --> 00:51:47.340
And the less we hear, they're murdering people in order to get

1114
00:51:47.340 --> 00:51:48.420
home quicker.

1115
00:51:48.480 --> 00:51:50.880
Like it's never put in those terms.

1116
00:51:50.940 --> 00:51:53.460
We're left to kind of deduce that.

1117
00:51:53.519 --> 00:51:55.739
James says, doesn't she?

1118
00:51:55.800 --> 00:51:58.860
Yeah, but the doctor...

1119
00:51:58.920 --> 00:52:01.980
We we need to discover that.

1120
00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:06.000
We need to discover that and it needs to be talked about in normal

1121
00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:06.840
human English.

1122
00:52:06.900 --> 00:52:11.639
And because there's some weird CGI creature terribly rendered in

1123
00:52:11.639 --> 00:52:12.000
that set.

1124
00:52:12.059 --> 00:52:15.000
It doesn't have the visceral impact it needs either.

1125
00:52:15.059 --> 00:52:18.360
Yeah, but I do think that that makes it a little bit more

1126
00:52:18.360 --> 00:52:19.260
interesting as well.

1127
00:52:19.320 --> 00:52:22.440
You know, like, well, it's a bit weird, yeah.

1128
00:52:22.500 --> 00:52:24.239
Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1129
00:52:24.300 --> 00:52:26.699
But I mean, the thing is, you know, we're Starfleet.

1130
00:52:26.760 --> 00:52:29.099
She's got a bit of silly party on her desk.

1131
00:52:29.159 --> 00:52:31.139
She's going...

1132
00:52:31.199 --> 00:52:31.920
This poor creature.

1133
00:52:34.260 --> 00:52:36.719
Oh, dear, oh.

1134
00:52:36.780 --> 00:52:38.579
Oh, do you know, I thought this was the bear of the two, you

1135
00:52:38.579 --> 00:52:38.760
know?

1136
00:52:40.739 --> 00:52:42.960
Oh no, I think it is.

1137
00:52:43.019 --> 00:52:47.340
And look, he says he admits, how many lines would it take, does he

1138
00:52:47.340 --> 00:52:48.059
say?

1139
00:52:48.119 --> 00:52:52.079
Because it's like 63 or 71 or something like it's a big number.

1140
00:52:52.139 --> 00:52:53.280
63.

1141
00:52:53.460 --> 00:52:53.760
There you go.

1142
00:52:53.880 --> 00:52:57.300
Can I ask you, would you want to see Jamo put in that situation?

1143
00:52:57.420 --> 00:52:59.880
Like the situation that Ransom was in?

1144
00:52:59.940 --> 00:53:00.179
No.

1145
00:53:00.239 --> 00:53:01.019
No.

1146
00:53:01.079 --> 00:53:01.679
Why?

1147
00:53:01.739 --> 00:53:02.400
No.

1148
00:53:02.519 --> 00:53:09.780
Um, because, uh, just because, uh, you know, like, I think killing

1149
00:53:09.780 --> 00:53:13.860
Senator Renak, who gives a shit, I've said that before, but, like

1150
00:53:13.860 --> 00:53:18.059
um, you know, torturing people...

1151
00:53:18.059 --> 00:53:20.159
The Gem Haddan at the end of the show.

1152
00:53:20.219 --> 00:53:24.420
Yeah, where they're forced to do it by the vorta.

1153
00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:26.579
Yeah, but I don't think this.

1154
00:53:26.639 --> 00:53:27.420
Do you know what I mean?

1155
00:53:27.480 --> 00:53:34.139
This is deliberately set up as, you know, maybe understandable, but

1156
00:53:34.139 --> 00:53:36.659
like, holy fuck, what are you doing?

1157
00:53:36.719 --> 00:53:43.199
Like, even this, we hadn't eaten in 16 days and like, so is then

1158
00:53:43.199 --> 00:53:45.179
is it okay to kill 63 people?

1159
00:53:45.179 --> 00:53:49.139
Like, like, it just seems, you know, it doesn't seem quite good

1160
00:53:49.139 --> 00:53:49.679
enough.

1161
00:53:49.739 --> 00:53:51.420
And why are we wasting our time with this?

1162
00:53:51.480 --> 00:53:53.579
Oh, look at the flashback.

1163
00:53:53.760 --> 00:53:55.139
Yeah.

1164
00:53:55.199 --> 00:53:56.340
Where do they how much?

1165
00:53:56.400 --> 00:53:56.820
How many?

1166
00:53:56.940 --> 00:53:59.340
I think it's probably a 7 or eight.

1167
00:53:59.400 --> 00:54:00.659
Yeah, we're around that part.

1168
00:54:00.780 --> 00:54:02.400
They still got big holes all over their faces.

1169
00:54:02.699 --> 00:54:07.440
I like the one who comes on board in the in the in the 2nd

1170
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:08.159
episode.

1171
00:54:08.219 --> 00:54:11.159
God bless them, because they're doing both the exposition that we

1172
00:54:11.159 --> 00:54:14.039
normally get. you know, the dreadful story and we're seeing it as

1173
00:54:14.039 --> 00:54:14.219
well.

1174
00:54:14.340 --> 00:54:18.360
Actually, a flashback is actually a little bit unusual, don't you

1175
00:54:18.360 --> 00:54:19.199
think, Voyager?

1176
00:54:19.260 --> 00:54:19.739
quite nice.

1177
00:54:19.800 --> 00:54:20.039
Yeah.

1178
00:54:20.099 --> 00:54:24.059
And it's not just a flashback of the one moment they made the back

1179
00:54:24.059 --> 00:54:25.800
or anything like that, where it sounds like a small narrative.

1180
00:54:25.920 --> 00:54:27.300
Yeah.

1181
00:54:27.360 --> 00:54:28.199
Yeah.

1182
00:54:28.199 --> 00:54:28.920
Look again.

1183
00:54:28.980 --> 00:54:30.539
Look at that creature with his hands together.

1184
00:54:30.599 --> 00:54:31.860
Yeah.

1185
00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:34.380
I don't think we need this.

1186
00:54:34.559 --> 00:54:36.239
Don't you think?

1187
00:54:36.300 --> 00:54:38.340
We don't, we do.

1188
00:54:38.400 --> 00:54:40.380
No, I don't think we need to.

1189
00:54:40.440 --> 00:54:43.619
No, normally they would just tell the story, the tell, you know, it

1190
00:54:43.619 --> 00:54:45.719
would just be dialogue, and that would be fine.

1191
00:54:46.019 --> 00:54:47.940
Yeah, no, no, no.

1192
00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:52.440
I mean, I just don't think it, we, like, if the, even the dialogue

1193
00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:55.380
is going to be so long, we definitely in the flashback, that's too

1194
00:54:55.380 --> 00:54:57.780
boring, but we don't need a long speed.

1195
00:54:57.840 --> 00:55:01.679
No, because do you remember Decker in the Doomsday machine?

1196
00:55:01.800 --> 00:55:04.980
Well, we didn't see any of it and he just told us the story, but

1197
00:55:04.980 --> 00:55:06.840
the camera just straight into speech.

1198
00:55:06.900 --> 00:55:08.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1199
00:55:09.599 --> 00:55:14.400
Yeah, and like this, it's easy to cling to principles when you're

1200
00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:15.960
you know, when your bulkheads are intact.

1201
00:55:16.019 --> 00:55:20.219
And it's just like, well, but we're not just talking about the

1202
00:55:20.219 --> 00:55:23.039
prime directive or wearing our uniforms neatly.

1203
00:55:23.099 --> 00:55:25.559
We're talking about murdering 63 people.

1204
00:55:25.619 --> 00:55:27.000
You know, like...

1205
00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:31.980
Like, I think she's going to sharp during this seater.

1206
00:55:32.099 --> 00:55:34.440
Because you know we're awful.

1207
00:55:36.179 --> 00:55:39.000
I would like to see Janeway in that position.

1208
00:55:39.059 --> 00:55:41.460
I think maybe I could judge him then.

1209
00:55:41.579 --> 00:55:43.920
No, no, no, no.

1210
00:55:43.980 --> 00:55:47.099
Because I think just wouldn't dare to do that.

1211
00:55:47.099 --> 00:55:52.079
It wouldn't dare to her in a morally compromising situation like

1212
00:55:52.079 --> 00:55:52.380
that.

1213
00:55:52.440 --> 00:55:56.880
And I think that what they've done is too bad.

1214
00:55:58.199 --> 00:56:00.659
I think what they've done is too bad.

1215
00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:03.960
I wonder if it's the execution for me then.

1216
00:56:04.019 --> 00:56:06.420
Because it doesn't seem that bad to me.

1217
00:56:06.480 --> 00:56:07.260
What they've done.

1218
00:56:08.219 --> 00:56:12.360
So I think it's the execution because I don't want to keep going

1219
00:56:12.360 --> 00:56:13.440
like labouring the point.

1220
00:56:13.500 --> 00:56:17.340
It's just that those inoffensive little creatures like lambs in

1221
00:56:17.340 --> 00:56:20.400
the field, you know, like it just doesn't, it doesn't seem like

1222
00:56:20.400 --> 00:56:21.719
such a big deal, yeah.

1223
00:56:22.559 --> 00:56:26.400
If it was the Beaumar, you know, that they were collecting up.

1224
00:56:28.199 --> 00:56:31.320
I think Matt, what is it, he says again?

1225
00:56:31.380 --> 00:56:34.079
I get translators malfunctioning.

1226
00:56:34.139 --> 00:56:36.239
You know, and then he murdered a lot of them to get home.

1227
00:56:36.300 --> 00:56:36.840
Maybe.

1228
00:56:36.900 --> 00:56:37.860
Yeah, that'd be all right.

1229
00:56:37.920 --> 00:56:38.880
I think that'd be okay.

1230
00:56:38.940 --> 00:56:42.659
But one of the things about Star Trek is that you discover that

1231
00:56:42.659 --> 00:56:47.099
these strange creatures are more than you thought they were.

1232
00:56:47.159 --> 00:56:50.400
You know, all the way back to the devil in the dark where the

1233
00:56:50.400 --> 00:56:52.199
monster just ends up being a mother.

1234
00:56:52.260 --> 00:56:58.019
You know, Star Trek has always been about discovering, like

1235
00:56:58.019 --> 00:57:04.800
including more and more people into our moral community, into the

1236
00:57:04.800 --> 00:57:10.920
group of people that we are bound to treat well, and just because

1237
00:57:10.920 --> 00:57:15.480
these are weird looking CGI creatures, that doesn't mean that

1238
00:57:15.480 --> 00:57:17.219
killing them isn't murder.

1239
00:57:17.280 --> 00:57:19.500
If they were animals, yeah, sure.

1240
00:57:19.559 --> 00:57:23.639
But if, and maybe does it sell enough that they're sent in?

1241
00:57:23.699 --> 00:57:24.239
I don't know.

1242
00:57:24.300 --> 00:57:26.820
I was just taking it that they were people because that's what the

1243
00:57:26.820 --> 00:57:31.260
script seemed to be and what Janeway seemed to be saying.

1244
00:57:31.320 --> 00:57:37.800
I just, I, I just wonder if, if anybody in the position of kill or

1245
00:57:37.800 --> 00:57:38.340
be killed.

1246
00:57:38.400 --> 00:57:40.380
That you would just make that call.

1247
00:57:40.440 --> 00:57:45.360
Oh, yeah, but I think, I think when it comes to like kill or, you

1248
00:57:45.360 --> 00:57:48.960
know, vivisect a whole bunch of people and then develop a plan and

1249
00:57:48.960 --> 00:57:51.059
then put them in the thing, do you know what I mean?

1250
00:57:51.119 --> 00:57:53.460
By the time you're putting things into chambers to kill them.

1251
00:57:53.519 --> 00:57:56.099
I think it's not quite self-defence at that point.

1252
00:57:56.159 --> 00:57:59.639
I didn't show you the seller while you were here then, you know?

1253
00:57:59.820 --> 00:58:03.480
But it's also like, oh, this.

1254
00:58:03.539 --> 00:58:04.440
Sorry to interrupt you.

1255
00:58:04.500 --> 00:58:06.960
We're doing the evil doctor again.

1256
00:58:08.460 --> 00:58:11.579
And it's an episode.

1257
00:58:11.639 --> 00:58:15.840
I love how easily evil doctor fools our doctor.

1258
00:58:15.900 --> 00:58:17.519
Taps his arm, like this.

1259
00:58:17.579 --> 00:58:19.260
Look, look, look, no, no.

1260
00:58:19.320 --> 00:58:21.599
He just hits him with he just hits him with his pad.

1261
00:58:21.659 --> 00:58:22.139
Watch.

1262
00:58:22.199 --> 00:58:22.619
Whee.

1263
00:58:22.679 --> 00:58:23.639
Oh, there it goes.

1264
00:58:27.119 --> 00:58:31.619
And it's a chance for Robert Picardo to chew the scenery, but we

1265
00:58:31.619 --> 00:58:32.400
have seen it all before.

1266
00:58:32.760 --> 00:58:35.400
I think it's really shit.

1267
00:58:35.460 --> 00:58:42.059
And I think we've seen it all before in descent part two, where

1268
00:58:42.059 --> 00:58:46.739
you know, you have data torturing Geordie in exactly the same

1269
00:58:46.739 --> 00:58:47.039
way.

1270
00:58:47.099 --> 00:58:49.139
Yes, I think icky, isn't it?

1271
00:58:49.199 --> 00:58:49.920
What he does to say?

1272
00:58:49.980 --> 00:58:50.280
Yeah.

1273
00:58:50.340 --> 00:58:52.139
It's yeah, it's not fun.

1274
00:58:52.199 --> 00:58:54.840
And how that's hand waved at the end as well.

1275
00:58:54.900 --> 00:58:55.980
They have a scene at the end.

1276
00:58:56.039 --> 00:59:00.539
It's just like, oh, well, I think their scene is super off putting

1277
00:59:00.539 --> 00:59:06.000
and weird, but it's a lot better than the really shitty scene with

1278
00:59:06.000 --> 00:59:08.460
Janeway and Chakotay at the end.

1279
00:59:08.519 --> 00:59:16.559
I think I think the problem here is that You have people making

1280
00:59:16.559 --> 00:59:17.880
moral choices.

1281
00:59:18.300 --> 00:59:23.639
You know, is it all right for Janeway to torture Rick Worthy?

1282
00:59:23.699 --> 00:59:27.480
Is it okay to kill a bunch of people because you want to get

1283
00:59:27.480 --> 00:59:27.780
home?

1284
00:59:27.840 --> 00:59:32.519
And then the doctor who becomes evil for just space reasons

1285
00:59:32.519 --> 00:59:38.940
because ransom says Siri make the doctor evil and he just becomes

1286
00:59:38.940 --> 00:59:39.360
evil.

1287
00:59:39.420 --> 00:59:44.579
And so that just undermines everything, you know, like ethical

1288
00:59:44.579 --> 00:59:45.840
subroutines.

1289
00:59:45.960 --> 00:59:49.139
You know, like, and it's not even hard.

1290
00:59:49.199 --> 00:59:52.380
You don't even have to do something difficult to get the doctor to

1291
00:59:52.380 --> 00:59:56.519
like, why would you even have like a security issue?

1292
00:59:56.880 --> 01:00:00.480
Like, that would that would mean there is a there is a situation

1293
01:00:00.480 --> 01:00:02.940
where they're not needed because they need to be turned off.

1294
01:00:03.179 --> 01:00:04.559
Yeah.

1295
01:00:04.619 --> 01:00:07.619
It's just like, no, sorry, we don't those don't turn off.

1296
01:00:09.119 --> 01:00:11.099
They don't exist.

1297
01:00:11.159 --> 01:00:15.000
He just has epics built into his program, you know?

1298
01:00:18.119 --> 01:00:20.940
But what, you know, you never know, you know.

1299
01:00:21.000 --> 01:00:23.880
Maybe somebody just turned off Ransom's ethical subroutines.

1300
01:00:23.940 --> 01:00:25.920
I believe his name might have been Joe Manosky.

1301
01:00:27.659 --> 01:00:29.219
There we go.

1302
01:00:29.280 --> 01:00:33.119
Oh, I liked all of this, so now...

1303
01:00:33.179 --> 01:00:33.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1304
01:00:33.900 --> 01:00:35.039
This is fun action, isn't it?

1305
01:00:35.099 --> 01:00:39.300
I think it's really good And that's what they're going for.

1306
01:00:39.360 --> 01:00:43.980
Like, I think that the things that we like about this, um, these 2

1307
01:00:43.980 --> 01:00:46.380
parter, and there's plenty of them despite all the moaning that

1308
01:00:46.380 --> 01:00:46.800
we're doing.

1309
01:00:47.340 --> 01:00:50.940
The things that we like are the things that they want us to like

1310
01:00:50.940 --> 01:00:52.860
they're the things that they're kind of foreground.

1311
01:00:52.980 --> 01:00:54.780
That's sort of linear plotting I was winging about.

1312
01:00:54.840 --> 01:00:56.099
That sort of linear plotting.

1313
01:00:56.159 --> 01:00:57.840
We love that in Star Trek, don't we?

1314
01:00:57.900 --> 01:01:01.800
We like a little mystery unfolding before us, even though we know

1315
01:01:01.800 --> 01:01:02.579
kind of where it's going.

1316
01:01:02.760 --> 01:01:05.280
You know, they've got to learn though, right?

1317
01:01:05.340 --> 01:01:07.019
Because do you remember the Vardoir?

1318
01:01:08.880 --> 01:01:12.599
And they came along and they're like, we're innocent victims, you

1319
01:01:12.599 --> 01:01:15.420
know, and they were like, oh, well, don't worry. come on the ship

1320
01:01:15.480 --> 01:01:16.079
you be all right.

1321
01:01:16.139 --> 01:01:18.780
And then it turns out they're evil and we're doing this.

1322
01:01:18.840 --> 01:01:22.380
Do you remember the ones we watched?

1323
01:01:22.440 --> 01:01:24.719
Are the Vadweir in season six?

1324
01:01:24.719 --> 01:01:25.679
Oh, they are?

1325
01:01:25.739 --> 01:01:26.099
right.

1326
01:01:26.159 --> 01:01:26.340
Sorry.

1327
01:01:26.400 --> 01:01:26.820
Yeah.

1328
01:01:26.880 --> 01:01:28.139
So they should haven't happened yet.

1329
01:01:28.199 --> 01:01:29.219
They should have remembered this then.

1330
01:01:30.960 --> 01:01:34.739
When the good crew equinox came along and said, you know, we're

1331
01:01:34.739 --> 01:01:38.639
all victims and, well, do you remember in alliances when you had

1332
01:01:38.639 --> 01:01:39.119
who was it?

1333
01:01:39.179 --> 01:01:40.619
The Cazon's enemy?

1334
01:01:41.699 --> 01:01:43.500
Oh, the train.

1335
01:01:43.559 --> 01:01:44.219
The train.

1336
01:01:44.280 --> 01:01:46.860
I don't remember nothing, do they, of this show?

1337
01:01:50.159 --> 01:01:53.940
Yeah, and like having the 2 ships fight one another, all of that

1338
01:01:53.940 --> 01:01:55.739
sort of super interesting.

1339
01:01:55.800 --> 01:01:57.659
Yeah, this is very boring, isn't it?

1340
01:01:57.780 --> 01:02:00.659
He's using one of my tri-quadratic algorithms.

1341
01:02:01.380 --> 01:02:03.780
Is that euphemism?

1342
01:02:03.840 --> 01:02:05.099
I don't know.

1343
01:02:05.159 --> 01:02:06.480
It's impossible to say.

1344
01:02:06.840 --> 01:02:09.780
This is not very urgent though, is it?

1345
01:02:09.840 --> 01:02:10.440
No.

1346
01:02:11.639 --> 01:02:13.559
She was a failing.

1347
01:02:13.619 --> 01:02:14.579
You've got less than a minute.

1348
01:02:14.639 --> 01:02:15.300
Open a channel.

1349
01:02:15.360 --> 01:02:17.820
So we got out the bit where Janeway spits at him, you know, like

1350
01:02:17.820 --> 01:02:21.179
get back here and ransom, or I'll hunt you across the entire

1351
01:02:21.179 --> 01:02:21.960
galaxy.

1352
01:02:21.960 --> 01:02:23.280
And she does.

1353
01:02:23.340 --> 01:02:24.119
Yeah, yeah.

1354
01:02:24.179 --> 01:02:27.659
And I think, you know, like, I think she's right too, because what

1355
01:02:27.659 --> 01:02:31.320
we're going to get, Oh, Jesus Christ, he just called her BLT.

1356
01:02:31.440 --> 01:02:34.199
Oh, there was a few roles there. happy to see the rocks.

1357
01:02:34.260 --> 01:02:34.619
Yeah, yeah.

1358
01:02:34.619 --> 01:02:40.440
The end of this episode is like the final scene of this episode is

1359
01:02:40.440 --> 01:02:46.320
just a redoing the 1st scene of the episode, but it's happening to

1360
01:02:46.320 --> 01:02:47.099
Voyager.

1361
01:02:47.159 --> 01:02:49.860
And I think that's that's the best thing about it.

1362
01:02:49.920 --> 01:02:54.960
And it's part of the reason why that 1st scene is actually a bit

1363
01:02:54.960 --> 01:02:58.079
nothing because it's people that we don't know about and we don't

1364
01:02:58.079 --> 01:02:58.980
even know where they are.

1365
01:02:59.039 --> 01:03:02.699
And like we don't even know that they're in the Delta Quadrant, do

1366
01:03:02.699 --> 01:03:02.880
we?

1367
01:03:02.940 --> 01:03:03.900
How can we tell?

1368
01:03:03.960 --> 01:03:08.280
The problem with it is. is one, I think the execution is not great

1369
01:03:08.280 --> 01:03:10.440
because the slime of monsters just look shit.

1370
01:03:10.559 --> 01:03:14.460
But the other problem is, is I knew that the next episode was

1371
01:03:14.460 --> 01:03:17.400
going to start and there was just going to be some technobabble

1372
01:03:17.400 --> 01:03:19.500
reason as to why those monsters weren't there anymore or they were

1373
01:03:19.500 --> 01:03:20.760
just going to shoot them.

1374
01:03:20.820 --> 01:03:22.980
So it wasn't like best of both worlds where we were like, how the

1375
01:03:22.980 --> 01:03:24.119
hell are we going to get out of this?

1376
01:03:24.179 --> 01:03:28.199
It was just, well, you know, let's get to the next episode because

1377
01:03:28.199 --> 01:03:30.719
this danger isn't going to last very long.

1378
01:03:30.780 --> 01:03:32.219
Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.

1379
01:03:32.280 --> 01:03:32.699
Sure.

1380
01:03:32.760 --> 01:03:35.219
But the function of a cliffhanger is to get you excited for the

1381
01:03:35.219 --> 01:03:35.940
next one, isn't it?

1382
01:03:36.420 --> 01:03:42.000
Yeah, but I think, I mean, I think that what's interesting is, and

1383
01:03:42.000 --> 01:03:47.880
it's the thing I think that, um, Ronald Moore picks up on is now

1384
01:03:47.880 --> 01:03:51.599
we're putting Janeway in exactly the position that Ransom was in.

1385
01:03:52.199 --> 01:03:53.639
Right?

1386
01:03:53.699 --> 01:03:57.059
So, like, literally, we see there it is.

1387
01:03:57.119 --> 01:04:02.760
In fact, we see a reenactment of the 1st scene, but happening on

1388
01:04:02.760 --> 01:04:04.440
Voyager in the 2nd scene.

1389
01:04:04.500 --> 01:04:08.400
And so now they're in the same situation, right?

1390
01:04:08.460 --> 01:04:13.679
And so what Moore wants to do is he wants to explore Janeway

1391
01:04:13.679 --> 01:04:16.980
losing her shit and losing her way morally.

1392
01:04:17.039 --> 01:04:24.599
And he wants ransom to kind of, uh, you know, like improve to kind

1393
01:04:24.599 --> 01:04:27.900
of see the error of his ways, uh, you know, because he's

1394
01:04:27.900 --> 01:04:29.880
interacting with the doctor in seven.

1395
01:04:30.179 --> 01:04:35.099
But no one else likes that idea, apparently. and it's certainly

1396
01:04:35.099 --> 01:04:36.119
not what we get.

1397
01:04:36.179 --> 01:04:39.599
And we don't get an examination of any of this.

1398
01:04:40.079 --> 01:04:42.480
And that's the centre of it.

1399
01:04:42.539 --> 01:04:49.980
I mean, if the big villain, the big series ending villain is us.

1400
01:04:50.039 --> 01:04:53.099
You know, that's what you should be doing.

1401
01:04:53.219 --> 01:04:56.280
You shouldn't just be doing the same shit as if this was the mail

1402
01:04:55.619 --> 01:04:56.820
on or whatever.

1403
01:04:56.880 --> 01:04:58.139
Do you know what I mean?

1404
01:04:58.199 --> 01:05:03.360
Like, if it's us, then, then it masses in a, in a way, and it has

1405
01:05:03.360 --> 01:05:05.639
to be a thing that we ourselves could have done.

1406
01:05:05.699 --> 01:05:10.500
And so making the crime so bad.

1407
01:05:10.559 --> 01:05:13.800
So obviously wrong is a mistake.

1408
01:05:13.800 --> 01:05:17.340
Um, because it should have been greyer.

1409
01:05:17.400 --> 01:05:21.059
And, and that's what the title offers.

1410
01:05:21.119 --> 01:05:23.219
Like, that's what the title suggests, isn't it?

1411
01:05:23.280 --> 01:05:24.119
equinox.

1412
01:05:24.179 --> 01:05:28.500
It's the day of the year where day and night are equal length

1413
01:05:28.500 --> 01:05:28.860
right?

1414
01:05:28.920 --> 01:05:30.659
It's half good, half bad.

1415
01:05:30.719 --> 01:05:32.280
And we don't get that.

1416
01:05:32.340 --> 01:05:36.539
No one can do anything sort of interesting or nuanced or anything

1417
01:05:36.539 --> 01:05:38.760
but they do decent action sequences.

1418
01:05:38.820 --> 01:05:41.159
Yeah, and 7 of 9 on a beach.

1419
01:05:41.219 --> 01:05:45.119
Do you know, do you remember Homefront and Paradise Lost from

1420
01:05:45.119 --> 01:05:47.639
series 4 of DS9?

1421
01:05:47.699 --> 01:05:51.119
And initially we're supposed to think the Dominion are evading

1422
01:05:51.119 --> 01:05:51.480
Earth?

1423
01:05:51.539 --> 01:05:52.260
they go there.

1424
01:05:52.320 --> 01:05:56.159
And then the big twist and that is, no, it was us all along in

1425
01:05:56.159 --> 01:06:00.780
that the admiral is so paranoid about the Dominion, that he's

1426
01:06:00.780 --> 01:06:04.320
staging things, so they can raise a military force and go out

1427
01:06:04.320 --> 01:06:04.980
after him.

1428
01:06:05.039 --> 01:06:10.260
So it is doing the same sort of thing, but it has protracted

1429
01:06:10.260 --> 01:06:14.519
dialogue scenes between Cisco and the admiral, where we understand

1430
01:06:14.519 --> 01:06:18.719
why he is so paranoid, why he's doing what he's doing.

1431
01:06:18.780 --> 01:06:21.119
It doesn't condemn him either like this does.

1432
01:06:21.960 --> 01:06:25.619
It's just playing in a different park, isn't it?

1433
01:06:26.519 --> 01:06:30.780
Well, look, we should probably watch episode two, you know, even

1434
01:06:30.780 --> 01:06:32.400
though I think we're going to complain a lot.

1435
01:06:32.579 --> 01:06:36.780
Yeah, I think episode 2 is worse and we complained a lot about

1436
01:06:36.780 --> 01:06:39.900
episode one, but I think a lot of our complaints were about

1437
01:06:39.900 --> 01:06:41.340
episode two, actually.

1438
01:06:41.400 --> 01:06:44.639
Like, this is a procedural thing.

1439
01:06:44.699 --> 01:06:46.139
I like hang time.

1440
01:06:46.199 --> 01:06:48.599
You know, we spend a lot of time just getting to know these new

1441
01:06:48.599 --> 01:06:50.940
people who've come on board, which I think is kind of

1442
01:06:50.940 --> 01:06:52.079
interesting.

1443
01:06:52.139 --> 01:06:54.599
There's an away mission, there's a bit of a mystery.

1444
01:06:54.659 --> 01:06:58.559
I actually kind of liked the discovery that something had gone

1445
01:06:58.559 --> 01:07:00.719
wrong, even though it wasn't all that well done.

1446
01:07:00.780 --> 01:07:05.460
But I don't think this episode, like, is a satisfying conclusion.

1447
01:07:05.519 --> 01:07:07.559
And that's often the case, isn't it?

1448
01:07:07.619 --> 01:07:08.699
Two parters?

1449
01:07:08.760 --> 01:07:13.320
So I have been in touch with Ron Moore to ask for some information

1450
01:07:13.320 --> 01:07:18.480
about the writing of Equinox, and he's got a one or 2 things to

1451
01:07:18.480 --> 01:07:18.780
say.

1452
01:07:18.840 --> 01:07:23.579
What I would suggest people do is go out, write Ron Moore, series

1453
01:07:23.579 --> 01:07:27.420
6 Voyager departure into Google, like I did, and there is a very

1454
01:07:27.420 --> 01:07:31.559
long, very detailed interview where he talks about the issues

1455
01:07:31.559 --> 01:07:35.099
behind the scenes of Voyager at the time.

1456
01:07:35.159 --> 01:07:39.059
But I want to focus just on what he says about, is it equinox or

1457
01:07:39.059 --> 01:07:39.659
equinox?

1458
01:07:39.719 --> 01:07:43.320
Both, either one, whichever way you want to say it.

1459
01:07:43.380 --> 01:07:44.159
Okay.

1460
01:07:46.139 --> 01:07:50.699
We sat down on approach equinox 2 and tried to find what the show

1461
01:07:50.699 --> 01:07:51.119
was about.

1462
01:07:51.179 --> 01:07:55.019
What was the point of meeting this ship and this crew and this

1463
01:07:55.019 --> 01:07:56.579
captain and what did it mean?

1464
01:07:56.699 --> 01:07:59.820
We finally landed on the idea that the 2 captains were going in

1465
01:07:59.820 --> 01:08:00.719
opposite directions.

1466
01:08:00.780 --> 01:08:04.320
Janeway was going to really feel the same kind of pressures and

1467
01:08:04.320 --> 01:08:07.980
stretches that ransom fell and watch how it could turn a good by

1468
01:08:07.980 --> 01:08:09.960
the book captain into what he had become.

1469
01:08:10.019 --> 01:08:13.199
At the same time, his interaction with the doctor in the 7 of 9

1470
01:08:13.199 --> 01:08:15.119
would rekindle his humanity.

1471
01:08:15.179 --> 01:08:18.899
It was this nice double track approach, but it just got lost in

1472
01:08:18.899 --> 01:08:19.680
the translation.

1473
01:08:19.739 --> 01:08:21.359
It has no coherence.

1474
01:08:21.420 --> 01:08:23.279
You're not really sure what's going on.

1475
01:08:23.340 --> 01:08:25.619
You've got some potentially good scenes.

1476
01:08:25.680 --> 01:08:28.439
The scenes between Janeway and Chakotay, had some real fire to

1477
01:08:28.439 --> 01:08:28.680
them.

1478
01:08:28.800 --> 01:08:31.199
And you kind of felt like she's going off the deep end a bit.

1479
01:08:31.260 --> 01:08:34.500
Then she released them with duty and there's this crisis of

1480
01:08:34.500 --> 01:08:37.680
command between the 2 of them, but at the end of the episode, it's

1481
01:08:37.680 --> 01:08:40.380
just shrug and smile and move off to the next episode.

1482
01:08:40.439 --> 01:08:42.300
I just hit the ceiling.

1483
01:08:42.359 --> 01:08:44.520
I remember writing in the margins.

1484
01:08:44.579 --> 01:08:46.800
This is a total betrayal of the audience.

1485
01:08:46.859 --> 01:08:47.939
This is wrong.

1486
01:08:48.060 --> 01:08:49.680
You can't end the show like this.

1487
01:08:49.739 --> 01:08:51.779
If you're going to do all this other stuff.

1488
01:08:51.840 --> 01:08:54.180
You can't end the show like this because it's not fair.

1489
01:08:54.300 --> 01:08:57.180
It's not true, and it just wouldn't happen.

1490
01:08:57.239 --> 01:08:59.460
But that's what the show is.

1491
01:08:59.579 --> 01:09:01.859
It became about action sequence is.

1492
01:09:01.920 --> 01:09:05.100
Brannan was very proud that the show was more action oriented than

1493
01:09:05.100 --> 01:09:08.760
the others, that is faster, stylistically a little more daring

1494
01:09:08.760 --> 01:09:10.199
than the other Star Trek shows.

1495
01:09:10.260 --> 01:09:11.220
That's great.

1496
01:09:11.340 --> 01:09:14.100
I give him a lot of credit for changing the look and feel of the

1497
01:09:14.100 --> 01:09:14.460
show.

1498
01:09:14.520 --> 01:09:17.819
But it has to be about something at some level.

1499
01:09:17.880 --> 01:09:20.939
The things that Janeway does in Equinox don't work because it's

1500
01:09:20.939 --> 01:09:21.720
not about anything.

1501
01:09:21.779 --> 01:09:24.119
She's not really grappling with her inner demons.

1502
01:09:24.180 --> 01:09:27.060
She's not truly under the gun and suffering to the point where you

1503
01:09:27.060 --> 01:09:28.800
can understand the decisions she's made.

1504
01:09:28.859 --> 01:09:31.560
She just gets kind of cranky and bitchy.

1505
01:09:31.619 --> 01:09:32.880
She's having a bad day.

1506
01:09:32.939 --> 01:09:36.239
These things keep popping around on the bridge and we keep cutting

1507
01:09:36.239 --> 01:09:40.260
to shots of people grabbing phaser rifles and shooting and hitting

1508
01:09:40.260 --> 01:09:42.239
the red alert sign over and over again.

1509
01:09:42.300 --> 01:09:44.340
It doesn't signify anything.

1510
01:09:44.460 --> 01:09:46.800
It's kind of emblematic of the show.

1511
01:09:46.859 --> 01:09:48.000
There's a lot of potential.

1512
01:09:48.060 --> 01:09:51.539
There's a lot of surface sizzle going on in a lot of the episodes

1513
01:09:51.539 --> 01:09:52.260
but to what end?

1514
01:09:52.319 --> 01:09:53.699
What are we trying to do?

1515
01:09:53.760 --> 01:09:57.119
What are we trying to touch in the audience?

1516
01:09:57.239 --> 01:09:58.140
What are we trying to say?

1517
01:09:58.199 --> 01:10:00.420
What things are we trying to explore?

1518
01:10:00.479 --> 01:10:02.520
What are we doing in this episode?

1519
01:10:03.000 --> 01:10:05.340
It's pretty damning, isn't it?

1520
01:10:05.399 --> 01:10:06.539
Yeah.

1521
01:10:06.600 --> 01:10:07.199
Yeah.

1522
01:10:07.260 --> 01:10:14.699
I think he's a bit unfair in some senses, but only because I've

1523
01:10:14.699 --> 01:10:20.340
read stuff into the episode and I think it's not there.

1524
01:10:20.399 --> 01:10:23.100
And I think that is the problem.

1525
01:10:23.159 --> 01:10:28.979
Like, I think you can make a good case why Janeway has sensible

1526
01:10:28.979 --> 01:10:33.600
reasons for doing what she's done and for going to the lengths

1527
01:10:33.600 --> 01:10:34.859
that she's gone.

1528
01:10:34.920 --> 01:10:38.579
And I think it does make a difference that these aren't the mail

1529
01:10:37.859 --> 01:10:43.260
on, uh, or the Vardoir or the Herogen or some monsters.

1530
01:10:43.319 --> 01:10:43.859
It makes a difference.

1531
01:10:43.920 --> 01:10:45.479
But they don't, do they?

1532
01:10:45.539 --> 01:10:47.100
In the episode, it sounds. don't.

1533
01:10:47.159 --> 01:10:49.140
She never gets to make her case.

1534
01:10:49.199 --> 01:10:51.600
Chakotay never gets to make his case.

1535
01:10:51.659 --> 01:10:57.899
She's just behaving in an ornery way. and he's being pathetic as

1536
01:10:57.899 --> 01:10:58.619
usual.

1537
01:10:58.680 --> 01:11:02.460
And so none of the moral stuff gets examined.

1538
01:11:02.520 --> 01:11:04.979
It's like the surface sheen of drama, isn't it?

1539
01:11:05.039 --> 01:11:07.380
We have no substance underneath whatsoever.

1540
01:11:07.439 --> 01:11:10.739
So it looks like a dramatic scene because you've got two.

1541
01:11:10.800 --> 01:11:12.420
Well, I've got to say 2 powerhouse actors.

1542
01:11:12.479 --> 01:11:13.680
Robert Belgian is in there as well.

1543
01:11:13.739 --> 01:11:16.500
Two actors going at it, hammer and tongs.

1544
01:11:16.560 --> 01:11:19.439
But it's just like, it's like you said, isn't it?

1545
01:11:19.500 --> 01:11:22.199
like a house about bricks, you know, built on straw. just nothing

1546
01:11:22.199 --> 01:11:22.439
there.

1547
01:11:22.560 --> 01:11:24.420
Yeah, yeah.

1548
01:11:24.479 --> 01:11:26.819
Yeah, it's a it's a shame.

1549
01:11:26.880 --> 01:11:28.199
Well, I'm excited.

1550
01:11:28.680 --> 01:11:33.659
Well, like we did say before, that I didn't hate watching this.

1551
01:11:33.720 --> 01:11:37.140
I didn't feel like I'd wasted an hour and a half and it's Star

1552
01:11:37.140 --> 01:11:42.239
Trek and I like Star Trek, but I guess it's a bit disappointing.

1553
01:11:42.300 --> 01:11:43.500
And it's funny.

1554
01:11:43.560 --> 01:11:48.659
Um, this week, although by the time this goes out, it will be last

1555
01:11:48.659 --> 01:11:49.619
week's episode.

1556
01:11:49.680 --> 01:11:54.119
But last week's episode of Lower Decks, did its big Voyager

1557
01:11:54.119 --> 01:11:58.079
episode the way it did its big Deep Space 9 episode last year.

1558
01:11:58.140 --> 01:12:02.520
And the thing that they remember most about Voyager is the crazy

1559
01:12:02.520 --> 01:12:06.539
ass, high concept, nonsense that they kept doing.

1560
01:12:06.600 --> 01:12:12.180
And that is a thing that's worth remembering Voyager 4.

1561
01:12:12.479 --> 01:12:16.260
You know, that's one of the things that we kind of like about it.

1562
01:12:16.319 --> 01:12:22.979
But what we don't remember it fondly for is how well drawn the

1563
01:12:22.979 --> 01:12:28.140
characters are and how urgent the moral delivers were or how

1564
01:12:28.140 --> 01:12:31.560
sparkling the repartee was on the bridge.

1565
01:12:31.619 --> 01:12:35.279
I think sort of more than any other example that I can think of.

1566
01:12:35.340 --> 01:12:40.920
Equinox is emblematic of Voyager itself in that it just has a reek

1567
01:12:40.920 --> 01:12:42.600
of unfulfilled potential.

1568
01:12:42.659 --> 01:12:46.739
And that's why, so like, you're right, from scene to scene, it is

1569
01:12:46.739 --> 01:12:47.520
perfectly watchable.

1570
01:12:47.579 --> 01:12:48.479
It's competently made.

1571
01:12:48.600 --> 01:12:52.199
It's well acted, you know, like I don't have any objections about

1572
01:12:52.199 --> 01:12:55.500
how it's being executed beyond our usual lack of shiny services

1573
01:12:55.500 --> 01:12:57.060
and cameras that don't move.

1574
01:12:57.119 --> 01:13:01.020
But it just always feels like it could be more.

1575
01:13:01.020 --> 01:13:04.140
This story does, the series does.

1576
01:13:04.199 --> 01:13:08.340
And yeah, I don't really like watching a TV show where I'm always

1577
01:13:08.340 --> 01:13:11.220
feeling like I'm not getting what I should be getting.

1578
01:13:11.279 --> 01:13:13.079
Yeah, that's fair enough.

1579
01:13:13.140 --> 01:13:14.760
Well, I count us in then.

1580
01:13:16.439 --> 01:13:19.020
Are we Star Trek fans really?

1581
01:13:20.159 --> 01:13:22.260
No, we are, we are.

1582
01:13:22.319 --> 01:13:23.819
We whinge because we care.

1583
01:13:23.880 --> 01:13:26.880
There'll be lovely shots of shiny ships shooting at each other in

1584
01:13:26.880 --> 01:13:27.060
this.

1585
01:13:27.119 --> 01:13:27.899
You know, we'll be happy.

1586
01:13:27.960 --> 01:13:29.220
Yeah, yeah, yeah. awesome.

1587
01:13:29.340 --> 01:13:31.079
Okay, here goes.

1588
01:13:31.140 --> 01:13:36.960
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

1589
01:13:37.020 --> 01:13:41.159
Please, God, choose topic we love next time is you've got a button

1590
01:13:41.159 --> 01:13:41.640
next time.

1591
01:13:44.760 --> 01:13:45.539
Here we go.

1592
01:13:45.659 --> 01:13:49.079
Major Al Barrett leads us into a reprise of episode one.

1593
01:13:49.140 --> 01:13:52.199
Yeah, she's she's the narrator.

1594
01:13:54.060 --> 01:13:57.239
See, it looks sort of super dramatic, doesn't it?

1595
01:13:57.300 --> 01:13:59.819
Oh, we can't communicate with them.

1596
01:13:59.880 --> 01:14:01.920
That is kind of what it is, though, isn't it?

1597
01:14:01.979 --> 01:14:03.720
We just sort of like trailer fuel, isn't it?

1598
01:14:03.779 --> 01:14:06.840
All these sort of scenes that you could just pluck out and say

1599
01:14:06.840 --> 01:14:07.739
right, this is going to be great.

1600
01:14:08.039 --> 01:14:13.439
But, you know, like, I think people who complain, you know, that

1601
01:14:13.439 --> 01:14:17.340
action or spectacle are meretricious.

1602
01:14:17.399 --> 01:14:18.479
I think that's ridiculous.

1603
01:14:18.539 --> 01:14:19.140
It's TV.

1604
01:14:19.199 --> 01:14:20.159
It's got to be spectacle.

1605
01:14:20.220 --> 01:14:23.880
That's one thing. and it's not the only thing because you've done

1606
01:14:23.880 --> 01:14:25.140
many things for me in my life.

1607
01:14:25.199 --> 01:14:29.640
If there's one thing you have taught me about examining television

1608
01:14:29.640 --> 01:14:31.739
is the vision part of television.

1609
01:14:31.800 --> 01:14:37.140
Yeah, and I've truly come to, to kick away from that, how well it

1610
01:14:37.140 --> 01:14:39.720
should just be, you know, a painted cloth backdrop.

1611
01:14:39.720 --> 01:14:43.920
A couple of actors declaiming in front of it.

1612
01:14:44.159 --> 01:14:49.319
Now I can sort of relax when I massively pretty set pieces are

1613
01:14:49.319 --> 01:14:49.920
going on around me.

1614
01:14:49.979 --> 01:14:52.199
Yeah, thank you for that. great.

1615
01:14:52.260 --> 01:14:54.600
Yeah, and Brague is right.

1616
01:14:54.659 --> 01:14:57.000
You know, like the action thing with this, trouble with the action

1617
01:14:57.000 --> 01:15:00.960
sequences on Voyager is that they all look roughly the same, which

1618
01:15:00.960 --> 01:15:02.220
is a problem.

1619
01:15:02.279 --> 01:15:02.699
Yeah.

1620
01:15:02.760 --> 01:15:04.020
Yeah.

1621
01:15:04.140 --> 01:15:09.060
It was when we got that sort of massive fleet of ships in

1622
01:15:09.060 --> 01:15:12.720
sacrifice of angels, you know, that 1st time with going at each

1623
01:15:12.720 --> 01:15:13.020
other.

1624
01:15:13.079 --> 01:15:15.239
We just never seen anything like it, had we?

1625
01:15:15.300 --> 01:15:16.079
We were like, whoa.

1626
01:15:16.140 --> 01:15:17.399
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1627
01:15:17.399 --> 01:15:19.859
Nowadays, you watch it and go, well, it's a bit pedestrian

1628
01:15:19.920 --> 01:15:20.100
actually.

1629
01:15:20.159 --> 01:15:21.840
Those ships are flying through very slowly.

1630
01:15:22.439 --> 01:15:24.779
Now, yeah, that's right.

1631
01:15:24.840 --> 01:15:30.659
Now, do you think I'm, I'm, I'm sort of bad cliche guy, but look

1632
01:15:30.659 --> 01:15:34.020
Chakotay's been hit by one of the things and he's got a scar on

1633
01:15:34.020 --> 01:15:35.100
his face.

1634
01:15:35.159 --> 01:15:38.460
And then naturally, because it's Voyager, we have time to go and

1635
01:15:38.460 --> 01:15:41.279
fix it in the next scene so we don't have to keep putting the

1636
01:15:41.279 --> 01:15:43.500
latex on him from episode to episode.

1637
01:15:43.560 --> 01:15:46.140
Why don't we give Jane a face?

1638
01:15:46.199 --> 01:15:47.880
with his usual skill.

1639
01:15:47.939 --> 01:15:48.420
Yeah.

1640
01:15:48.479 --> 01:15:50.819
That's what's happening right now in the transition between the

1641
01:15:50.819 --> 01:15:51.180
scenes.

1642
01:15:51.239 --> 01:15:52.140
No, no.

1643
01:15:52.199 --> 01:15:54.600
But why don't we give why don't we give Janeway that scar?

1644
01:15:54.659 --> 01:15:56.100
She had one.

1645
01:15:56.100 --> 01:15:56.579
She had one.

1646
01:15:56.640 --> 01:15:58.500
Just a little off, but it's gone.

1647
01:15:58.619 --> 01:16:00.060
No, she gets attacked.

1648
01:16:00.119 --> 01:16:01.979
So it's gone.

1649
01:16:02.039 --> 01:16:03.600
We don't give her the scar.

1650
01:16:03.659 --> 01:16:06.779
You know, like, and that's cheesy.

1651
01:16:06.840 --> 01:16:07.619
Do you know what I mean?

1652
01:16:07.680 --> 01:16:09.659
It's like, I have his leg or whatever.

1653
01:16:09.720 --> 01:16:14.220
It's, you know, I...

1654
01:16:14.220 --> 01:16:18.600
I think that something personal happens here.

1655
01:16:18.659 --> 01:16:23.699
The reason why I think that it's okay for Janeway to torture Rick

1656
01:16:23.699 --> 01:16:26.279
Worthy is that.

1657
01:16:27.000 --> 01:16:30.000
She made a choice.

1658
01:16:31.199 --> 01:16:40.680
And that choice cost was costly, you know, that she made a costly

1659
01:16:40.680 --> 01:16:45.359
choice for the sake of people that she'd never met and had no

1660
01:16:45.359 --> 01:16:48.060
particular interest in.

1661
01:16:48.060 --> 01:16:50.760
And they're making the opposite choice.

1662
01:16:50.819 --> 01:16:55.500
They're actually actually choosing to ride home. that they don't

1663
01:16:55.500 --> 01:16:55.859
know.

1664
01:16:55.920 --> 01:16:57.600
They're not, this, that's right.

1665
01:16:57.659 --> 01:16:58.380
That's it.

1666
01:16:58.439 --> 01:17:03.539
So she makes and and you know, we get that in in the final episode

1667
01:17:03.539 --> 01:17:05.939
in whatever it's called, endgame.

1668
01:17:06.000 --> 01:17:07.979
I think is explained in that, though.

1669
01:17:08.039 --> 01:17:10.979
They actually do refer back to Caretaker, don't they?

1670
01:17:11.039 --> 01:17:12.720
Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1671
01:17:12.779 --> 01:17:14.760
They don't hear, though, do they?

1672
01:17:14.880 --> 01:17:16.439
No, no.

1673
01:17:16.500 --> 01:17:18.359
But as an audience went back to it.

1674
01:17:18.420 --> 01:17:21.300
You shouldn't be expected to create the content.

1675
01:17:21.300 --> 01:17:22.140
Exactly.

1676
01:17:22.140 --> 01:17:24.000
I hate ways behaving the way she is.

1677
01:17:24.060 --> 01:17:28.800
Well, in a well-made drama, that would be part of the fun would be

1678
01:17:28.800 --> 01:17:32.340
kind of going, oh, yes, of course she's reacting like that because

1679
01:17:32.340 --> 01:17:34.680
of this, but they're not doing that either.

1680
01:17:34.739 --> 01:17:37.439
I'm just having to kind of head canon her weird behaviour, I

1681
01:17:37.439 --> 01:17:37.619
think.

1682
01:17:37.680 --> 01:17:38.399
Yes, don't you?

1683
01:17:38.460 --> 01:17:39.659
Even in a well-made drama.

1684
01:17:39.779 --> 01:17:41.340
They would give you some kind of dialogue.

1685
01:17:41.460 --> 01:17:42.840
Well, that makes the link.

1686
01:17:43.619 --> 01:17:49.560
And also, too, that so they're left in the same situation.

1687
01:17:49.619 --> 01:17:55.079
So he has not only determined to kill 63 things in order to get

1688
01:17:55.079 --> 01:17:55.380
home.

1689
01:17:55.439 --> 01:18:00.119
He's also decided to leave Voyager in the situation that he found

1690
01:18:00.119 --> 01:18:00.779
himself in.

1691
01:18:00.899 --> 01:18:07.140
So sorry. over the top shot of Jayway marching through the ship

1692
01:18:07.140 --> 01:18:09.779
with a massive fucking gun.

1693
01:18:09.840 --> 01:18:10.140
Yep.

1694
01:18:13.199 --> 01:18:16.079
Their subtlety, Nathan has left the building.

1695
01:18:16.199 --> 01:18:20.640
And that, why is like Neelix is just walking past the dead body

1696
01:18:20.640 --> 01:18:20.939
there?

1697
01:18:21.000 --> 01:18:23.340
They've got it on the floor, that's odd.

1698
01:18:23.399 --> 01:18:25.020
Or is that cool?

1699
01:18:25.020 --> 01:18:27.239
Because they're shooting them as they emerged. you know what I

1700
01:18:27.239 --> 01:18:27.420
mean?

1701
01:18:27.479 --> 01:18:28.739
Like that, I kind of like these.

1702
01:18:28.800 --> 01:18:29.880
Are they allowed to do that?

1703
01:18:30.119 --> 01:18:32.699
Yeah, well, they're attacking them.

1704
01:18:32.760 --> 01:18:36.000
I mean, they are attacking them, mind you, because they've been

1705
01:18:36.000 --> 01:18:36.840
being attacked.

1706
01:18:36.899 --> 01:18:38.340
Do you know what I mean?

1707
01:18:38.399 --> 01:18:41.039
But, like, shooting them in self-defence doesn't seem quite the

1708
01:18:41.039 --> 01:18:42.600
same as...

1709
01:18:42.600 --> 01:18:44.159
People aware you're in its home, you know?

1710
01:18:44.520 --> 01:18:45.899
Yeah.

1711
01:18:45.960 --> 01:18:47.460
Oh, look at this.

1712
01:18:47.460 --> 01:18:49.380
We're out of bed, so there's people lying on the floor.

1713
01:18:49.500 --> 01:18:52.140
I know because they've got this tiny fucking set.

1714
01:18:53.520 --> 01:18:58.739
No, so where he goes, presses the button, but he goes, please take

1715
01:18:58.739 --> 01:19:00.840
state the nature of the, Oh yeah, don't bother.

1716
01:19:02.399 --> 01:19:04.859
There's people all over the floor.

1717
01:19:08.340 --> 01:19:10.439
Oh, bless.

1718
01:19:10.439 --> 01:19:12.600
So do we, does Chakotay keep the scar?

1719
01:19:12.659 --> 01:19:13.859
I can't remember.

1720
01:19:13.920 --> 01:19:16.739
No, no, no. they get rid of it.

1721
01:19:16.800 --> 01:19:17.640
Yeah.

1722
01:19:17.699 --> 01:19:20.699
Because, you know, Robert Belcher is so pretty.

1723
01:19:20.760 --> 01:19:21.899
We wouldn't want him looking like that.

1724
01:19:21.960 --> 01:19:24.119
Well, I suppose.

1725
01:19:24.300 --> 01:19:27.359
I think he did have a certain something in those early couple of

1726
01:19:27.359 --> 01:19:27.600
years.

1727
01:19:27.659 --> 01:19:30.659
And then he had a bit of gray in his head, didn't he, for a little

1728
01:19:30.659 --> 01:19:30.840
while?

1729
01:19:30.899 --> 01:19:33.359
A little bit of gray and it, like, shorter hair.

1730
01:19:33.420 --> 01:19:36.060
Now he just sort of combs it back like any...

1731
01:19:36.060 --> 01:19:37.380
It's discovered just for men.

1732
01:19:37.439 --> 01:19:38.939
Sorry, it looks very unconvincing.

1733
01:19:39.000 --> 01:19:42.000
Oh, so here we are on this fabulous beach.

1734
01:19:42.300 --> 01:19:45.479
So here we go outside.

1735
01:19:45.539 --> 01:19:48.119
Well, we are, but we're not really, are we?

1736
01:19:48.300 --> 01:19:52.439
Well, we are because we are going to take Jerry out there.

1737
01:19:52.500 --> 01:19:55.199
I thought it might be just stock footage or something like that

1738
01:19:55.199 --> 01:19:58.260
but we actually take Jerry to that location and...

1739
01:19:58.319 --> 01:19:58.979
But you know what?

1740
01:19:59.039 --> 01:20:02.579
He's saying about how the doctor and 7 are supposed to teach him

1741
01:20:02.579 --> 01:20:04.739
to be a good human being and all again and how none of that

1742
01:20:04.739 --> 01:20:06.420
happens because it doesn't happen at all.

1743
01:20:06.479 --> 01:20:07.979
No, it doesn't happen.

1744
01:20:08.039 --> 01:20:11.819
It just comes across that he's perving on 7 and 9 in his sort of

1745
01:20:11.819 --> 01:20:13.859
porn virtual reality thing.

1746
01:20:13.920 --> 01:20:14.699
It's very old.

1747
01:20:14.880 --> 01:20:18.659
No, he literally changes his mind for no reason.

1748
01:20:18.779 --> 01:20:20.340
Like, I can't see.

1749
01:20:20.340 --> 01:20:22.199
No, no, there is a reason.

1750
01:20:22.319 --> 01:20:23.100
There is a reason.

1751
01:20:23.159 --> 01:20:24.300
The episode has to.

1752
01:20:24.300 --> 01:20:25.680
Season seven.

1753
01:20:25.739 --> 01:20:26.220
Yeah.

1754
01:20:26.279 --> 01:20:30.000
No, he sees 7 in the virtual reality, which is a thing that's not

1755
01:20:30.000 --> 01:20:33.960
supposed to have because it's only got landscapes and no people

1756
01:20:33.960 --> 01:20:39.779
and 7 has a conversation with him, but I don't know what that's

1757
01:20:39.779 --> 01:20:42.539
meant to mean or represent in real life.

1758
01:20:42.960 --> 01:20:44.760
Do you know what I mean?

1759
01:20:44.819 --> 01:20:50.100
Is it like I'm feeling bad about killing her in order to get the

1760
01:20:50.100 --> 01:20:50.520
codes?

1761
01:20:51.420 --> 01:20:53.819
You know how they should have ended this?

1762
01:20:53.880 --> 01:20:57.659
Do you remember that episode about Star Galactica when Gator and

1763
01:20:57.659 --> 01:20:57.840
that?

1764
01:20:57.840 --> 01:21:01.619
take over Galactica, you know, they stage a coup and at the end

1765
01:21:01.619 --> 01:21:03.899
they surround them and shoot them all in the head.

1766
01:21:04.020 --> 01:21:05.340
They should have ended in all this.

1767
01:21:05.399 --> 01:21:07.920
Janeway could have come in with that big gun and shot them all.

1768
01:21:07.979 --> 01:21:09.539
They execute them, don't they?

1769
01:21:09.600 --> 01:21:11.819
they execute them as a death penalty.

1770
01:21:11.880 --> 01:21:13.319
It's Gator and someone else.

1771
01:21:13.380 --> 01:21:14.220
I can't remember who else.

1772
01:21:14.279 --> 01:21:16.020
I didn't get wrong.

1773
01:21:16.079 --> 01:21:18.899
They would never do that in Star Trek, but you know, again, I can

1774
01:21:18.899 --> 01:21:20.279
tell you what's the more interesting show.

1775
01:21:20.640 --> 01:21:24.539
Yeah, yeah, but not because they wouldn't shoot people in the head

1776
01:21:24.539 --> 01:21:27.000
because there are plenty of interesting shows that don't have that

1777
01:21:27.000 --> 01:21:27.420
happen.

1778
01:21:27.479 --> 01:21:31.680
Um, I just think, yeah.

1779
01:21:31.739 --> 01:21:33.899
And that's super interesting because there are people we've been

1780
01:21:33.899 --> 01:21:38.460
with for years and we can understand why they mutiny and all of

1781
01:21:38.460 --> 01:21:38.640
that.

1782
01:21:38.699 --> 01:21:42.300
And remember that what Battlestar Galactica does is it does these

1783
01:21:42.300 --> 01:21:45.840
local storylines that last for sort of 3 or 4 episodes, the mutiny

1784
01:21:45.840 --> 01:21:49.500
is a thing that happens over a period of time, just like Pegasus

1785
01:21:49.500 --> 01:21:51.659
is a thing that happens over a period of time.

1786
01:21:51.720 --> 01:21:53.279
Not available to this show.

1787
01:21:53.340 --> 01:21:55.920
One of the things that Moore talks about in his interview is how

1788
01:21:55.920 --> 01:22:00.600
the Voyager premise is inherent for serialisation because they are

1789
01:22:00.600 --> 01:22:01.979
going on a journey.

1790
01:22:02.100 --> 01:22:05.880
So the fact that they don't do what you just described there about

1791
01:22:05.880 --> 01:22:08.520
Battle Star Galactica is baffling.

1792
01:22:08.579 --> 01:22:10.260
Why do that process at all?

1793
01:22:10.439 --> 01:22:11.819
Yeah.

1794
01:22:11.880 --> 01:22:17.579
Well, I suspect why they do that premise is so to get away from

1795
01:22:17.579 --> 01:22:18.659
the DS9.

1796
01:22:18.840 --> 01:22:25.079
Yeah, I think it's so that Deep Space 9 and the films are not

1797
01:22:25.079 --> 01:22:29.460
affected by any of the continuity that happens in vice versa.

1798
01:22:29.520 --> 01:22:31.439
It's a flawed reason then, isn't it?

1799
01:22:31.500 --> 01:22:34.800
Because it opens up possibilities that they're not willing to

1800
01:22:34.800 --> 01:22:35.100
take.

1801
01:22:35.220 --> 01:22:36.659
No.

1802
01:22:36.720 --> 01:22:41.819
And like that's unfair because initially they do, they do have an

1803
01:22:41.819 --> 01:22:42.960
ongoing plot.

1804
01:22:42.960 --> 01:22:45.960
And like plenty of people don't like it and whatever and they're

1805
01:22:45.960 --> 01:22:48.300
happy when it's over and we're just doing sort of standalones

1806
01:22:48.300 --> 01:22:49.140
again.

1807
01:22:49.199 --> 01:22:52.500
But like I guess, I don't know.

1808
01:22:52.560 --> 01:22:57.420
The sad truth there is, is when they did drop the case on and went

1809
01:22:57.420 --> 01:22:58.380
into standalones.

1810
01:22:58.439 --> 01:23:01.800
It's sort of, we're approaching series 4 where Jerry Ryan came in

1811
01:23:01.800 --> 01:23:03.899
and suddenly they're getting the productions, right?

1812
01:23:03.960 --> 01:23:07.680
So they're doing these big, juicy sort of standout episodes and

1813
01:23:07.680 --> 01:23:09.779
things like this where people are going, oh, Voyagers just got

1814
01:23:09.779 --> 01:23:12.359
really good because it's dropped all that Ks on nonsense.

1815
01:23:12.420 --> 01:23:15.539
But actually, it's just naturally a show getting better as it goes

1816
01:23:15.539 --> 01:23:16.439
along as well.

1817
01:23:16.500 --> 01:23:17.159
It's a shame.

1818
01:23:17.579 --> 01:23:19.260
I think so too.

1819
01:23:19.319 --> 01:23:23.100
And I think I think it's telling as well that there are only 7

1820
01:23:23.100 --> 01:23:24.239
people on this ship.

1821
01:23:24.479 --> 01:23:27.539
Like, and that wasn't always true.

1822
01:23:28.560 --> 01:23:31.260
You know, there's no.

1823
01:23:31.319 --> 01:23:34.140
There's no sort of semi-regulars or anything.

1824
01:23:34.199 --> 01:23:38.640
Yeah, which is, again, a shame because they started doing that

1825
01:23:38.640 --> 01:23:39.119
didn't they?

1826
01:23:39.180 --> 01:23:42.779
And then Jerry Taylor was like, no, we're going to murder them all

1827
01:23:42.779 --> 01:23:43.260
in one episode.

1828
01:23:43.380 --> 01:23:48.180
Yeah, except for the one that we bring back later and then... so

1829
01:23:48.180 --> 01:23:49.199
terrible, isn't it?

1830
01:23:49.260 --> 01:23:50.760
Well, it's period.

1831
01:23:50.819 --> 01:23:52.140
They're doing the best they can.

1832
01:23:52.199 --> 01:23:53.520
I think it's an attempt.

1833
01:23:55.079 --> 01:23:57.180
They were sort of proud of it.

1834
01:23:57.239 --> 01:23:58.260
I thought that shot was okay.

1835
01:23:58.319 --> 01:23:59.340
You know what?

1836
01:23:59.399 --> 01:24:01.979
In the end, in my head there, I was doing more parallels between

1837
01:24:01.979 --> 01:24:04.079
Voyager and Battlestar Galactica.

1838
01:24:04.140 --> 01:24:07.079
You could have a scene where Harry Kim has finally had enough of

1839
01:24:07.079 --> 01:24:11.340
his interminable journey home, goes into his locker, pulls out a

1840
01:24:11.340 --> 01:24:12.899
pistol and shoots himself in the head.

1841
01:24:13.560 --> 01:24:14.699
Yeah, yeah.

1842
01:24:14.760 --> 01:24:17.039
No, that wouldn't happen, would it?

1843
01:24:17.100 --> 01:24:18.479
Yeah, yeah.

1844
01:24:18.539 --> 01:24:19.260
Shame.

1845
01:24:20.819 --> 01:24:24.300
No, I mean, Battlestar Galactic is a completely different thing

1846
01:24:24.300 --> 01:24:27.060
and I think it's a great show, but I think it's not a great show

1847
01:24:27.060 --> 01:24:31.199
specifically because it's not Star Trek and it does things that

1848
01:24:31.199 --> 01:24:32.699
Star Trek can't do.

1849
01:24:32.760 --> 01:24:36.659
I think it's a great show because it's well written.

1850
01:24:36.659 --> 01:24:39.479
And yeah, and all those things that TV probably should be doing

1851
01:24:39.479 --> 01:24:40.439
all the time.

1852
01:24:40.500 --> 01:24:41.159
Yeah, yeah.

1853
01:24:41.220 --> 01:24:42.899
Did you hear what she said there?

1854
01:24:42.960 --> 01:24:46.920
We should be hunting down ransom, nuts, debating adverbs

1855
01:24:46.920 --> 01:24:47.579
Chakotay.

1856
01:24:48.119 --> 01:24:48.659
Yeah.

1857
01:24:48.720 --> 01:24:50.880
What was the adverbs thing?

1858
01:24:50.939 --> 01:24:53.760
Oh, because they're trying to communicate with the, I like the

1859
01:24:53.760 --> 01:24:57.119
adverbs line, actually, because they're trying to work out a way

1860
01:24:57.119 --> 01:25:00.180
of communicating with the, with the slimers.

1861
01:25:00.779 --> 01:25:05.640
She goes, we run into the Melon, the Hirogen, we've had our share

1862
01:25:05.640 --> 01:25:06.420
of bad guys.

1863
01:25:06.479 --> 01:25:08.460
We never lost our principles, Chakotay.

1864
01:25:08.520 --> 01:25:10.920
But she's saying the wrong thing.

1865
01:25:10.979 --> 01:25:14.100
She's saying the wrong thing because she's the one who should be

1866
01:25:14.100 --> 01:25:20.039
saying, no, the mail on, the Hirogen, the Borg.

1867
01:25:20.100 --> 01:25:22.619
They're bad guys, but this is different.

1868
01:25:22.680 --> 01:25:26.819
He's us and he's murdering his way through the quadrant.

1869
01:25:26.880 --> 01:25:31.859
You know, he's left us in with, you know, to clean up his shit.

1870
01:25:31.920 --> 01:25:36.539
He's killed 3 crew members at a point in the show when only like

1871
01:25:36.539 --> 01:25:38.460
20 something had died by that point.

1872
01:25:38.520 --> 01:25:39.779
Do you know what I mean?

1873
01:25:39.840 --> 01:25:42.539
Like, he's responsible for the deaths of these crew members, and

1874
01:25:42.539 --> 01:25:46.680
he's a person, and we're part of the same organisation, and I'm

1875
01:25:46.680 --> 01:25:47.699
going to put a stop to it.

1876
01:25:47.760 --> 01:25:49.500
You know, he's got to be punished.

1877
01:25:49.560 --> 01:25:50.699
He can't get away with it.

1878
01:25:52.380 --> 01:25:57.180
Instead, she's she's just saying, well, you know, we've met these

1879
01:25:57.180 --> 01:26:00.420
people. and we never went there, you know?

1880
01:26:00.420 --> 01:26:01.859
Yeah, yeah.

1881
01:26:01.920 --> 01:26:03.420
So it's less focus on here.

1882
01:26:03.479 --> 01:26:05.039
It's all about them.

1883
01:26:05.100 --> 01:26:10.500
It's very strange Do you remember, I'm going to keep doing this.

1884
01:26:10.560 --> 01:26:15.060
Do you remember the Cisco Eddington, you know, the episode where

1885
01:26:15.060 --> 01:26:16.560
he's trying to hunt him down, right?

1886
01:26:16.619 --> 01:26:19.560
I mean, they're never going to top that because it's so operatic

1887
01:26:19.560 --> 01:26:21.479
in a way that only DS9 can be.

1888
01:26:21.539 --> 01:26:24.539
You know, he absolutely adores Les Miserables.

1889
01:26:24.600 --> 01:26:27.720
He gets to say at the end, you know, Javert, I'll give you what

1890
01:26:27.720 --> 01:26:28.140
you want.

1891
01:26:28.199 --> 01:26:32.159
Me, you know, and all of this very over the top stuff that we

1892
01:26:32.159 --> 01:26:32.399
love.

1893
01:26:32.460 --> 01:26:36.239
But it does examine the characters. in the episode.

1894
01:26:36.300 --> 01:26:40.140
And a lot of people say to Cisco, you're getting obsessed and you

1895
01:26:40.140 --> 01:26:41.100
need to step away from this.

1896
01:26:42.000 --> 01:26:43.380
Yeah.

1897
01:26:44.279 --> 01:26:46.380
Oh, this is creepy.

1898
01:26:46.800 --> 01:26:51.239
Well, I just think it's boring, and it is because we've done it

1899
01:26:51.239 --> 01:26:55.560
before, and him singing and stuff, and like we switched his

1900
01:26:55.560 --> 01:26:57.000
ethical subroutines off.

1901
01:26:57.060 --> 01:26:58.319
It's so crap.

1902
01:26:58.380 --> 01:27:00.479
Like, what is that?

1903
01:27:00.539 --> 01:27:03.239
And then how do we feel about that at the end?

1904
01:27:03.300 --> 01:27:04.739
Do you know what I mean?

1905
01:27:04.800 --> 01:27:08.279
Like, do they need to reconcile because he tried to murder her or

1906
01:27:08.279 --> 01:27:12.600
is it he's ethical subroutines were switched off?

1907
01:27:12.659 --> 01:27:14.640
It's kind of like, what is this even like?

1908
01:27:14.699 --> 01:27:15.840
How do I feel about this?

1909
01:27:15.899 --> 01:27:17.579
Why is he doing a bad thing?

1910
01:27:17.640 --> 01:27:18.359
as well.

1911
01:27:18.420 --> 01:27:19.619
Why is he removing our memories?

1912
01:27:19.739 --> 01:27:22.920
So I actually think it's really good.

1913
01:27:22.979 --> 01:27:31.560
So she has encoded the things in engineering, so he can't use his

1914
01:27:31.560 --> 01:27:34.079
murder box to get home.

1915
01:27:34.140 --> 01:27:35.399
Oh okay.

1916
01:27:35.520 --> 01:27:36.899
Okay.

1917
01:27:36.899 --> 01:27:41.159
And and I actually thought it was pretty awesome when she said

1918
01:27:41.159 --> 01:27:42.000
no.

1919
01:27:42.060 --> 01:27:44.399
And he said, well, I'll kill you.

1920
01:27:44.460 --> 01:27:45.960
He said, well, yep, go ahead.

1921
01:27:46.020 --> 01:27:48.239
Like I really, I thought she was great.

1922
01:27:48.300 --> 01:27:52.500
And this, where she says, you keep saying you had no choice.

1923
01:27:52.560 --> 01:27:56.159
You know, you murder things and say, oh, I have no choice.

1924
01:27:56.279 --> 01:27:59.699
You know, like, I think that's, that's approaching being a

1925
01:27:59.699 --> 01:28:01.439
conversation about ethics, isn't it?

1926
01:28:01.560 --> 01:28:04.020
And about the way we justify what we've done.

1927
01:28:04.079 --> 01:28:06.239
And she's kind of saying I'm not going to help you.

1928
01:28:06.300 --> 01:28:07.800
I'm giving you the choice.

1929
01:28:07.859 --> 01:28:10.199
You can kill it. surface again, though, because he's not coming

1930
01:28:10.199 --> 01:28:11.039
back with an argument.

1931
01:28:11.100 --> 01:28:13.619
It's not a debate between 2 people.

1932
01:28:13.619 --> 01:28:14.939
She's just condemning you.

1933
01:28:15.060 --> 01:28:18.600
Yeah, at least it's a conversation about ethics, you know.

1934
01:28:18.659 --> 01:28:23.159
But I do think all this sort of focus on 7 because God forbid we

1935
01:28:23.159 --> 01:28:24.420
don't focus on her every week.

1936
01:28:24.420 --> 01:28:28.199
Because there's, you know, Pete, the 5 people watching might turn

1937
01:28:28.199 --> 01:28:28.500
off.

1938
01:28:28.560 --> 01:28:32.520
It does take away from the Janeway ransom things.

1939
01:28:32.579 --> 01:28:33.960
So they don't get any time together.

1940
01:28:34.020 --> 01:28:35.699
He has all of his time with seven.

1941
01:28:35.819 --> 01:28:38.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1942
01:28:38.579 --> 01:28:43.319
What you could have had was a protracted dialogue scene with seven

1943
01:28:43.319 --> 01:28:46.800
with, sorry, with Janeway and Shakotay and Ransom at some point in

1944
01:28:46.800 --> 01:28:49.979
this episode where everyone gets to state their case and

1945
01:28:49.979 --> 01:28:52.680
everyone's given a reason why they're doing what they're doing.

1946
01:28:52.739 --> 01:28:54.300
Star Trek too.

1947
01:28:54.359 --> 01:28:58.079
The whole pursuit, they could be talking to one another.

1948
01:28:58.199 --> 01:29:01.260
While they, you know, there's no reason why they can't talk to one

1949
01:29:01.260 --> 01:29:04.079
another now because they're on different ships and they can hand

1950
01:29:04.079 --> 01:29:07.199
wave the fact that they can't detect one another who cares, but

1951
01:29:07.199 --> 01:29:08.520
let's have them talk to each other.

1952
01:29:08.579 --> 01:29:09.899
Do you know what the problem is?

1953
01:29:09.960 --> 01:29:12.720
It's the opposite of what we normally say about 90s trek.

1954
01:29:12.779 --> 01:29:14.640
There's not enough talk and there's too much action.

1955
01:29:14.699 --> 01:29:16.199
You know?

1956
01:29:16.260 --> 01:29:18.000
Yeah, yeah.

1957
01:29:18.060 --> 01:29:20.699
Stop being dynamic and start talking.

1958
01:29:20.760 --> 01:29:24.659
Well, but I mean, they are talking, but whenever they're talking

1959
01:29:24.659 --> 01:29:25.920
they're talking about the wrong things.

1960
01:29:26.699 --> 01:29:30.960
They're talking about Max and B'Elana's relationship and shit

1961
01:29:30.960 --> 01:29:35.159
about cat and mouse in the thingy nebula, being chased by the

1962
01:29:35.159 --> 01:29:36.060
Klingons.

1963
01:29:36.119 --> 01:29:36.899
Oh, crock.

1964
01:29:36.960 --> 01:29:40.260
No, this isn't one of these backstory scenes. isn't it?

1965
01:29:44.399 --> 01:29:46.380
Oh, bless her.

1966
01:29:46.439 --> 01:29:48.899
And yet all of these exchanges.

1967
01:29:49.319 --> 01:29:53.579
You could put in a trailer and people will go, things are far

1968
01:29:53.579 --> 01:29:56.579
enough on Voyager this week, you know, look at Janeway and

1969
01:29:56.579 --> 01:29:57.720
Chakotay round with each other.

1970
01:29:58.500 --> 01:30:01.560
I really like that little ship.

1971
01:30:02.340 --> 01:30:04.020
Don't you think?

1972
01:30:04.079 --> 01:30:04.979
I think it looks really cool.

1973
01:30:05.579 --> 01:30:07.319
I don't know why.

1974
01:30:07.380 --> 01:30:09.659
I think you've got a bit of a thing about ship designs.

1975
01:30:09.720 --> 01:30:12.720
It's been a few times on Star Trek project where you'd liked...

1976
01:30:12.779 --> 01:30:15.600
It's a bit pointer and a bit more angular.

1977
01:30:15.659 --> 01:30:16.500
Do you know what I mean?

1978
01:30:16.560 --> 01:30:17.939
Like it's little...

1979
01:30:18.060 --> 01:30:18.600
I like it.

1980
01:30:18.659 --> 01:30:19.680
I think it looks cool.

1981
01:30:19.739 --> 01:30:20.760
There's a lot of detail.

1982
01:30:20.819 --> 01:30:23.460
I wonder if they said, look, we've made it to series six.

1983
01:30:23.520 --> 01:30:25.140
We're going to have a beach shoot, all right?

1984
01:30:25.199 --> 01:30:28.020
But we're only taking ransom and seven.

1985
01:30:28.079 --> 01:30:28.680
Sorry.

1986
01:30:28.920 --> 01:30:32.399
Oh, yeah, we do take. we do take him, don't we?

1987
01:30:32.460 --> 01:30:33.960
But he only appears in the last scene.

1988
01:30:34.020 --> 01:30:37.199
I actually kind of like that once he's decided to die.

1989
01:30:37.319 --> 01:30:41.699
He, Then we see him on the beach.

1990
01:30:41.760 --> 01:30:45.720
This can't be doing the relationship between K Mulgrew and Jerry

1991
01:30:45.720 --> 01:30:46.680
Ryan any favours.

1992
01:30:46.739 --> 01:30:49.079
We're doing it as a favour for Jerry for saving the show.

1993
01:30:49.140 --> 01:30:50.939
She can go off.

1994
01:30:51.000 --> 01:30:51.779
So you can go to the beach.

1995
01:30:51.840 --> 01:30:54.359
No, wait, we are...

1996
01:30:54.479 --> 01:30:56.039
Rick Worthy's getting a go.

1997
01:30:56.100 --> 01:30:58.680
So Harry Kim's now pissed off that it's not him.

1998
01:30:58.859 --> 01:31:01.800
How comes all these guest characters get to go outside?

1999
01:31:01.859 --> 01:31:03.060
Oh, no, no.

2000
01:31:03.119 --> 01:31:05.100
Our guys are here too because they've got to capture them.

2001
01:31:06.180 --> 01:31:10.680
And this dialogue, again, what a fucking waste of time this

2002
01:31:10.680 --> 01:31:11.520
dialogue is.

2003
01:31:11.579 --> 01:31:14.039
Oh, this place looks like somewhere in Southern California.

2004
01:31:14.100 --> 01:31:17.039
There used to be squirrels and you kind of think, fuck, what are

2005
01:31:17.039 --> 01:31:17.340
you doing?

2006
01:31:17.399 --> 01:31:19.079
Are you pointing it out?

2007
01:31:19.140 --> 01:31:20.760
Yeah.

2008
01:31:21.539 --> 01:31:23.880
But it's so boring.

2009
01:31:23.939 --> 01:31:27.239
Now he's away from the sort of terrible light in a Voyager and

2010
01:31:27.239 --> 01:31:28.140
he's out in the sunshine.

2011
01:31:28.199 --> 01:31:29.880
Rick Worthy is very pretty, isn't he?

2012
01:31:29.939 --> 01:31:31.739
Oh, yeah, no, he's a pretty man.

2013
01:31:31.800 --> 01:31:33.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

2014
01:31:33.420 --> 01:31:35.520
Okay, so they're captured now.

2015
01:31:35.579 --> 01:31:37.199
Torture scene imminent, folks.

2016
01:31:37.260 --> 01:31:38.340
Content warning.

2017
01:31:38.640 --> 01:31:43.739
So, I think, I think that you're right that there's, you know, like

2018
01:31:43.739 --> 01:31:46.380
we'll talk to the black guy is a bit of a problem.

2019
01:31:46.439 --> 01:31:50.220
And I would have much liked Janeway to have tortured Marlowe

2020
01:31:50.220 --> 01:31:51.840
because fuck that woman.

2021
01:31:51.899 --> 01:31:53.699
Yeah, yeah, but do you know what I mean?

2022
01:31:53.760 --> 01:31:57.359
She's like the sort of, she's got a little bit of liberal guilt

2023
01:31:57.359 --> 01:32:00.720
about murdering 63 people in order to get home.

2024
01:32:01.319 --> 01:32:05.939
But she could have properly sort of gone, you know, you preyed on

2025
01:32:05.939 --> 01:32:07.260
our sympathies, martyr.

2026
01:32:07.319 --> 01:32:09.300
You deserve their sin.

2027
01:32:09.659 --> 01:32:13.020
It will, because that was the problem, wasn't it?

2028
01:32:13.140 --> 01:32:18.720
The thing about her feeling bad about it, but it was all a ploy.

2029
01:32:18.779 --> 01:32:20.399
You know, I don't know.

2030
01:32:20.460 --> 01:32:22.739
Are we supposed to ever think she was gonna go through with it?

2031
01:32:22.859 --> 01:32:24.600
If he didn't?

2032
01:32:24.720 --> 01:32:25.619
I didn't know.

2033
01:32:25.680 --> 01:32:29.159
Like, I didn't know, because I couldn't remember the individual

2034
01:32:29.159 --> 01:32:29.819
beats here.

2035
01:32:29.880 --> 01:32:32.760
There were bits that I remembered, but I should have gone the

2036
01:32:32.760 --> 01:32:35.159
whole thing once. had him sucked out into space.

2037
01:32:38.579 --> 01:32:41.760
They're not think Chakotay can say you're going too far, but just

2038
01:32:41.760 --> 01:32:42.899
taking a bit of the air out of the room.

2039
01:32:42.960 --> 01:32:44.039
We do that every other week.

2040
01:32:44.100 --> 01:32:45.479
No, no, that's not what they were doing.

2041
01:32:45.539 --> 01:32:46.319
That's what they were doing.

2042
01:32:46.380 --> 01:32:48.479
Oh, no, the aliens coming in, isn't he?

2043
01:32:48.539 --> 01:32:48.779
Yeah.

2044
01:32:48.840 --> 01:32:49.800
Yeah, yeah.

2045
01:32:49.859 --> 01:32:55.439
And like, in a sense, as I said before, it would be consistent

2046
01:32:55.439 --> 01:33:00.720
with sort of Starfleet protocols to just say, we're going to hand

2047
01:33:00.720 --> 01:33:04.500
you over to these aliens because we don't have jurisdiction here

2048
01:33:04.500 --> 01:33:07.020
and we're going to let them do what they want to do.

2049
01:33:07.020 --> 01:33:11.159
And like, having her rationalise it.

2050
01:33:11.220 --> 01:33:15.420
What if she was rationalising it in that way while seeming kind of

2051
01:33:15.420 --> 01:33:16.739
crazy and out of control?

2052
01:33:16.800 --> 01:33:20.159
Like that would have been interesting. you know, something

2053
01:33:20.159 --> 01:33:22.619
something other than this, would have been interesting.

2054
01:33:22.680 --> 01:33:23.760
But you, um...

2055
01:33:23.760 --> 01:33:26.399
You like her performance in that scene.

2056
01:33:26.399 --> 01:33:27.779
And I'll say it again.

2057
01:33:27.840 --> 01:33:30.720
I just don't buy it and I don't think Kate Mulgrew buys it

2058
01:33:30.720 --> 01:33:30.960
either.

2059
01:33:32.100 --> 01:33:37.739
Yeah, I mean, I love her being tough and muscular and scary and

2060
01:33:37.739 --> 01:33:38.100
stuff.

2061
01:33:38.159 --> 01:33:38.880
I think she's pretty great.

2062
01:33:39.600 --> 01:33:44.819
But yes, like, I don't think that she knows why she's doing it.

2063
01:33:44.880 --> 01:33:48.000
She just always sounds so confident with her dialogue and in that

2064
01:33:48.000 --> 01:33:52.500
sequence, she just sounds a little limb, like, oh, do you think?

2065
01:33:52.560 --> 01:33:53.279
Yeah.

2066
01:33:53.340 --> 01:33:55.260
Hell, hell, talk.

2067
01:33:57.720 --> 01:33:59.579
Well, we'll see.

2068
01:33:59.640 --> 01:34:02.579
Well, we won't hear it, but we'll certainly see our body.

2069
01:34:02.640 --> 01:34:02.880
Yeah.

2070
01:34:02.880 --> 01:34:03.239
Yeah.

2071
01:34:03.300 --> 01:34:08.340
I mean, I'll say as usual, watching these, um, you know, less good

2072
01:34:08.340 --> 01:34:11.220
episodes of Star Trek are made immediately better by talking about

2073
01:34:11.220 --> 01:34:11.819
them with you.

2074
01:34:11.880 --> 01:34:16.199
So, thank you.

2075
01:34:16.319 --> 01:34:19.619
Oh, that's my pleasure.

2076
01:34:20.279 --> 01:34:27.180
So it's really crap how easily fooled they are as well.

2077
01:34:27.239 --> 01:34:30.239
Like they just, why are they following them down into the

2078
01:34:30.239 --> 01:34:30.779
atmosphere?

2079
01:34:30.840 --> 01:34:31.739
I don't quite get it.

2080
01:34:31.800 --> 01:34:32.699
It's exciting.

2081
01:34:32.760 --> 01:34:34.739
That's why it's a nice and exciting.

2082
01:34:34.800 --> 01:34:36.659
Janeways out of control.

2083
01:34:36.840 --> 01:34:39.539
You know, they can put in the trailer now.

2084
01:34:39.600 --> 01:34:42.479
We've got a beach, we've got an action sequence on location.

2085
01:34:42.539 --> 01:34:46.140
We're going into the atmosphere of a planet and just pissed on the

2086
01:34:46.140 --> 01:34:46.319
floor.

2087
01:34:46.500 --> 01:34:48.479
What more do you need?

2088
01:34:51.539 --> 01:34:54.420
I mean, later in this season, you know, the only thing they need

2089
01:34:54.420 --> 01:34:58.439
in the trailer for the episode is the rock is gonna fight 7 of

2090
01:34:58.439 --> 01:34:58.800
nine.

2091
01:34:59.579 --> 01:35:01.979
Did you ever see a trailer for that one?

2092
01:35:02.039 --> 01:35:04.859
They did it like a proper WWE.

2093
01:35:06.720 --> 01:35:09.539
In one corner, we've got 7 of nine.

2094
01:35:09.600 --> 01:35:11.579
Anyhow, we've got the wrong.

2095
01:35:11.640 --> 01:35:16.560
I've seen them interacting on Twitter, which was pretty funny.

2096
01:35:16.680 --> 01:35:19.439
Well, they still think about it very fondly, don't they?

2097
01:35:19.500 --> 01:35:20.640
Yeah, yeah.

2098
01:35:20.699 --> 01:35:23.819
And he was showing her respect because she did beat him, you know

2099
01:35:23.819 --> 01:35:25.140
like it was...

2100
01:35:25.140 --> 01:35:26.640
I do think this is very nicely shot.

2101
01:35:26.699 --> 01:35:28.680
The camera sort of follows her around.

2102
01:35:28.739 --> 01:35:30.840
He's always in the foreground looking a bit.

2103
01:35:30.899 --> 01:35:32.939
It's a well directed scene.

2104
01:35:34.079 --> 01:35:36.420
But I like this too.

2105
01:35:36.479 --> 01:35:37.800
She does...

2106
01:35:37.800 --> 01:35:39.539
No, this is awesome.

2107
01:35:39.600 --> 01:35:41.880
She comes in a bit as if she's going to kiss him.

2108
01:35:43.079 --> 01:35:46.859
I'm gonna let your little friends pay you.

2109
01:35:46.859 --> 01:35:47.399
So good.

2110
01:35:47.460 --> 01:35:50.640
Some people would call it poetic justice.

2111
01:35:50.699 --> 01:35:53.460
Poetic justice, or just justice.

2112
01:35:53.520 --> 01:35:55.020
You know.

2113
01:35:56.819 --> 01:35:59.279
But Chikoto's so limp.

2114
01:35:59.340 --> 01:36:00.539
Look at him standing there.

2115
01:36:00.600 --> 01:36:02.100
I mean, he's kind of going along with it.

2116
01:36:02.159 --> 01:36:05.819
I kind of like the, there's no plan as far as I know, and like

2117
01:36:05.819 --> 01:36:07.739
that scene does 2 things.

2118
01:36:07.800 --> 01:36:10.619
It kind of like I'm not quite sure what the hell she's doing, but

2119
01:36:10.619 --> 01:36:13.979
it's also, I haven't decided to come in and rescue you either.

2120
01:36:14.039 --> 01:36:15.840
No, I think this is good.

2121
01:36:15.899 --> 01:36:17.760
I like how she underplays it.

2122
01:36:17.819 --> 01:36:20.640
That's absolutely what she should be doing.

2123
01:36:20.699 --> 01:36:23.100
And I kind of like, what are you going to do, hit me.

2124
01:36:23.159 --> 01:36:26.159
It's just like, no, no, I'm just gonna put the shields down and

2125
01:36:26.159 --> 01:36:29.159
let the people that you've been torturing and killing come in and

2126
01:36:29.159 --> 01:36:30.539
deal with you how they want.

2127
01:36:30.600 --> 01:36:36.000
You know, I think that, you know, If this was the right thing to

2128
01:36:36.000 --> 01:36:39.300
do, it would be so much more interesting than she's out of

2129
01:36:39.300 --> 01:36:39.720
control.

2130
01:36:39.779 --> 01:36:41.460
Oh, is Rick tearing up?

2131
01:36:41.460 --> 01:36:42.119
He is a bit.

2132
01:36:42.300 --> 01:36:42.840
I don't know why.

2133
01:36:42.899 --> 01:36:45.720
I just find when when Cisco goes psychotic like this.

2134
01:36:45.779 --> 01:36:48.300
I'll just believe it more, but that's just because he's generally

2135
01:36:48.300 --> 01:36:50.220
psychotic most weeks.

2136
01:36:50.760 --> 01:36:55.199
Well, I think she, I think she's smaller than him.

2137
01:36:55.260 --> 01:36:58.979
Like in this conversation, he's bigger than her in every shot

2138
01:36:58.979 --> 01:36:59.880
right?

2139
01:37:00.000 --> 01:37:03.060
And then there's another scene later on where she's at the back of

2140
01:37:03.060 --> 01:37:09.180
the room not talking to anyone and I just wish she had owned this

2141
01:37:09.239 --> 01:37:09.840
you know what I mean?

2142
01:37:09.899 --> 01:37:14.159
Whether like they kind of, you know, like he pulls a gun and then

2143
01:37:14.159 --> 01:37:18.000
sort of wanders off and I just think he's a bit pathetic, you

2144
01:37:18.000 --> 01:37:18.300
know.

2145
01:37:19.140 --> 01:37:23.640
This is not the same woman, you know, who came along dressed as

2146
01:37:23.640 --> 01:37:28.079
queen of the spider people and owned the entire set.

2147
01:37:29.100 --> 01:37:32.939
Yeah, again, she's just standing there pissed off because he's

2148
01:37:32.939 --> 01:37:34.380
spoiled her fun.

2149
01:37:34.859 --> 01:37:38.460
And she just sort of looks at him and walks away, doesn't she?

2150
01:37:38.579 --> 01:37:39.600
Yeah, excuse me.

2151
01:37:39.659 --> 01:37:42.180
You've spoiled my thumb.

2152
01:37:42.239 --> 01:37:45.539
Well, she doesn't push him out of the way or push him or anything

2153
01:37:45.539 --> 01:37:46.020
like that.

2154
01:37:46.079 --> 01:37:50.399
She just kind of sideways edges herself in between. this scene as

2155
01:37:50.399 --> 01:37:50.520
well.

2156
01:37:50.579 --> 01:37:51.600
Look at her.

2157
01:37:51.659 --> 01:37:53.100
Yeah, yeah, look at her.

2158
01:37:53.159 --> 01:37:54.420
She's standing there.

2159
01:37:54.479 --> 01:37:55.680
She's not standing upright.

2160
01:37:55.739 --> 01:37:56.939
She's leaning against the thing.

2161
01:37:57.239 --> 01:37:59.939
She's letting him do the talking.

2162
01:38:00.000 --> 01:38:02.159
She's smaller than everyone else in the frame.

2163
01:38:02.220 --> 01:38:03.359
She's out of focus.

2164
01:38:03.420 --> 01:38:06.119
You know, like, I don't understand what they're doing.

2165
01:38:06.180 --> 01:38:07.140
They're just signed up.

2166
01:38:07.199 --> 01:38:09.359
What she should do is, is what he did in rocks and struggles and

2167
01:38:09.359 --> 01:38:10.619
just go, this isn't a debate.

2168
01:38:10.680 --> 01:38:12.180
You know, we're going to do what I want.

2169
01:38:12.239 --> 01:38:13.199
We're going to go and get him.

2170
01:38:13.260 --> 01:38:17.399
Yeah, but we don't have that conversation, you know, like we don't

2171
01:38:17.399 --> 01:38:20.399
have the, yeah, and look, she backs down. doesn't she?

2172
01:38:20.460 --> 01:38:21.239
We're going to do it your way.

2173
01:38:22.500 --> 01:38:24.420
Oh, Janeway.

2174
01:38:24.539 --> 01:38:25.500
Janeway, you're weak.

2175
01:38:25.560 --> 01:38:26.340
I'm sorry.

2176
01:38:26.399 --> 01:38:28.199
Yeah, that's right.

2177
01:38:28.260 --> 01:38:30.300
I think that's a problem, isn't it?

2178
01:38:30.359 --> 01:38:32.159
Like, you almost killed that man.

2179
01:38:33.239 --> 01:38:36.060
And she wasn't intending to kill him.

2180
01:38:36.119 --> 01:38:38.159
She thought that it would work.

2181
01:38:38.220 --> 01:38:45.359
Like, she thought that when the thing came through, the thing, he

2182
01:38:45.359 --> 01:38:50.159
would have cried out and then, you know, like, she had to let it

2183
01:38:50.159 --> 01:38:53.699
sort of fly around him a bit, like, she sounds like she didn't

2184
01:38:53.699 --> 01:38:54.720
intend for it to kill him.

2185
01:38:54.840 --> 01:38:55.859
This is so shit.

2186
01:38:55.920 --> 01:38:59.039
They've gone from her saying we're going to do it your way to 5

2187
01:38:59.039 --> 01:38:59.699
lines later.

2188
01:38:59.760 --> 01:39:00.840
You're relieved of juicy.

2189
01:39:00.899 --> 01:39:02.220
Yeah, yeah.

2190
01:39:02.279 --> 01:39:03.359
What is this scene doing?

2191
01:39:03.420 --> 01:39:05.520
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2192
01:39:06.180 --> 01:39:09.420
He just went, I'm not going to let you cross the line again.

2193
01:39:09.479 --> 01:39:10.800
Well, you've left me no choice.

2194
01:39:10.859 --> 01:39:12.180
I'm sorry, I'm going to throw you in the bridge.

2195
01:39:13.859 --> 01:39:16.500
This is a drama, you know?

2196
01:39:17.340 --> 01:39:21.119
Well, in 15 minutes it'll all be okay again.

2197
01:39:21.180 --> 01:39:24.119
Now there's nobody to stop her now going over the edge.

2198
01:39:24.239 --> 01:39:28.319
No, because she she threatens to put someone else in the brig in a

2199
01:39:28.319 --> 01:39:28.500
minute.

2200
01:39:28.560 --> 01:39:31.619
I feel like Harry Kim should be looking at her and like, 0 my god

2201
01:39:31.619 --> 01:39:33.359
like, can I be relieved, Captain?

2202
01:39:33.659 --> 01:39:36.000
I'm bumping these up.

2203
01:39:36.060 --> 01:39:41.520
So their mouths, these sort of floppy rubber mouths.

2204
01:39:42.119 --> 01:39:45.659
I'm giving them an extra one on the bow mask.

2205
01:39:45.720 --> 01:39:47.279
Oh, that case, like a swear.

2206
01:39:47.340 --> 01:39:48.840
Yeah, yeah.

2207
01:39:48.899 --> 01:39:52.079
They're like, are they supposed to be like snails?

2208
01:39:53.039 --> 01:39:56.880
Possibly. bizarre orifice they've got for a mouth.

2209
01:39:56.939 --> 01:39:58.560
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2210
01:39:58.619 --> 01:40:01.739
It's only a line you say in a Star Trek commentary, isn't it?

2211
01:40:01.859 --> 01:40:03.779
No, it's super upsetting.

2212
01:40:03.840 --> 01:40:05.399
I like their little ship though.

2213
01:40:05.460 --> 01:40:07.319
I'm wondering like this machine.

2214
01:40:07.380 --> 01:40:10.260
I always thought it was the Melon she was talking about when she

2215
01:40:10.260 --> 01:40:11.760
said they were testing us, okay?

2216
01:40:11.819 --> 01:40:15.479
Making us act with these strange creatures that I, it might have

2217
01:40:15.479 --> 01:40:15.720
been them.

2218
01:40:15.779 --> 01:40:16.920
No, but I think it was those.

2219
01:40:16.920 --> 01:40:19.260
She's not even looking at him.

2220
01:40:19.319 --> 01:40:21.300
She's like, I'm not looking at that mask.

2221
01:40:22.859 --> 01:40:27.359
Remember the frog guy in counterpoint?

2222
01:40:27.420 --> 01:40:29.399
Oh, shit, yeah.

2223
01:40:29.460 --> 01:40:30.300
Jesus.

2224
01:40:30.359 --> 01:40:31.020
Do you remember the book?

2225
01:40:31.680 --> 01:40:34.619
Do you remember the blue guy?

2226
01:40:34.619 --> 01:40:38.520
In the pale moonlight, you know, the one who's doing the program.

2227
01:40:38.579 --> 01:40:39.239
Yeah, yeah.

2228
01:40:39.300 --> 01:40:43.380
Yeah, I think weird looking aliens can be really good, but that.

2229
01:40:43.439 --> 01:40:46.140
But you know, we always come back to the Beaumar.

2230
01:40:46.199 --> 01:40:48.600
Do you remember how much they weren't given a performance?

2231
01:40:48.659 --> 01:40:50.699
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2232
01:40:50.760 --> 01:40:53.640
Oh, no, they were just sort of intransigent aliens that we needed

2233
01:40:53.640 --> 01:40:58.500
for no reason, you know. which is another voyager kind of trope

2234
01:40:58.500 --> 01:40:58.979
isn't it?

2235
01:40:59.039 --> 01:40:59.939
Another staple.

2236
01:41:00.060 --> 01:41:03.539
I do think we don't see enough decorative cohangers, though, on

2237
01:41:03.539 --> 01:41:04.979
Star Trek, so I'll give him that.

2238
01:41:06.000 --> 01:41:07.439
I do.

2239
01:41:07.500 --> 01:41:10.979
I quite like the, you know, this light thing that he's holding and

2240
01:41:10.979 --> 01:41:13.260
it's the spirits that come along to guide you on your way.

2241
01:41:13.319 --> 01:41:16.920
Yeah, I like the spirits of good fortune as well.

2242
01:41:16.979 --> 01:41:18.180
It's kind of weird.

2243
01:41:18.300 --> 01:41:21.300
Well, because then it makes it appalling that they've been

2244
01:41:21.300 --> 01:41:22.500
captured and killed, doesn't it?

2245
01:41:22.619 --> 01:41:22.979
You know?

2246
01:41:23.039 --> 01:41:24.180
Spirits of good fortune.

2247
01:41:24.239 --> 01:41:26.100
Well, you didn't see your own good fortune, did you?

2248
01:41:27.479 --> 01:41:29.760
I yeah, that's right.

2249
01:41:29.819 --> 01:41:31.680
She's threatening to put Tuvok in the brig.

2250
01:41:31.739 --> 01:41:34.140
But again, is this wrong?

2251
01:41:34.199 --> 01:41:38.640
If she says, if you, you need to stop.

2252
01:41:38.699 --> 01:41:39.479
If everybody around you.

2253
01:41:40.680 --> 01:41:43.260
If everybody around you is saying to you, look, you're going too

2254
01:41:43.260 --> 01:41:45.180
far, please can we talk about this?

2255
01:41:45.300 --> 01:41:47.819
You don't just arrest everybody.

2256
01:41:47.939 --> 01:41:51.779
You go, okay, maybe this person who is my best friend of many

2257
01:41:51.779 --> 01:41:55.680
years, who sage counsel I've sought, maybe I listen to him and we

2258
01:41:55.680 --> 01:41:56.340
have a dialogue.

2259
01:41:56.399 --> 01:42:02.340
Or you say, I think that you're wrong and this is what we're going

2260
01:42:02.340 --> 01:42:05.159
to do, and I'm a captain and you'll just do it.

2261
01:42:05.220 --> 01:42:07.199
I don't have to threaten you with putting you in the bridge

2262
01:42:07.199 --> 01:42:09.960
because I'm a captain, you know.

2263
01:42:10.020 --> 01:42:14.760
And, and like if, if she's communicating with these things, saying

2264
01:42:14.760 --> 01:42:20.760
you need to stop attacking us because we, um, are going to deal

2265
01:42:20.939 --> 01:42:25.380
you know, we didn't do this to you and we're going to deal with

2266
01:42:25.380 --> 01:42:27.899
the people who did, I think that's okay.

2267
01:42:27.960 --> 01:42:32.399
I think it would even be okay to say, We're going to hand you over

2268
01:42:32.399 --> 01:42:36.060
to the, we're going to hand the people who did this over to you. is

2269
01:42:36.060 --> 01:42:40.140
not necessarily that bad a solution either.

2270
01:42:40.680 --> 01:42:42.479
That's curatum.

2271
01:42:42.539 --> 01:42:45.600
Just tie up the Econox crew, bring in the aliens and say, right

2272
01:42:45.600 --> 01:42:46.619
have your way.

2273
01:42:46.680 --> 01:42:48.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah, off you go.

2274
01:42:48.600 --> 01:42:49.979
We don't want to deal with those people.

2275
01:42:50.279 --> 01:42:54.420
Well, I mean, you know, Tuvok says we're going to imprison them

2276
01:42:54.420 --> 01:42:58.859
and clearly that's kind of the right call.

2277
01:42:58.920 --> 01:43:04.920
But, you know, like, it is that thing where maybe they have the

2278
01:43:04.920 --> 01:43:10.140
right to make that call themselves as green squirmy aliens.

2279
01:43:10.199 --> 01:43:11.159
What is this shit?

2280
01:43:11.159 --> 01:43:12.779
The doctor's saying so ransom.

2281
01:43:12.899 --> 01:43:15.659
Oh, you know, when this is over, I'll teach you my repertoire

2282
01:43:15.659 --> 01:43:16.260
about singing.

2283
01:43:16.319 --> 01:43:20.819
I was like, yeah, like why are you wasting time with this?

2284
01:43:20.880 --> 01:43:22.560
When there's so much not being said.

2285
01:43:22.920 --> 01:43:25.500
It's not creepy.

2286
01:43:25.560 --> 01:43:28.140
You know, it's not like the guy in, what's that one?

2287
01:43:28.199 --> 01:43:29.699
Is it revulsion?

2288
01:43:29.819 --> 01:43:31.800
Oh, the hologram?

2289
01:43:31.920 --> 01:43:33.239
Yeah.

2290
01:43:33.300 --> 01:43:35.399
Do you know a hologram?

2291
01:43:35.460 --> 01:43:38.880
I cannot wait until we get survival instinct, which is the 2nd

2292
01:43:38.880 --> 01:43:39.840
episode of this season.

2293
01:43:39.899 --> 01:43:40.500
The next one.

2294
01:43:40.500 --> 01:43:43.800
It's the only script that Ron Moore wrote, the teleplay that Ron

2295
01:43:43.800 --> 01:43:47.819
Moore wrote for Voyager, and it is entirely character focussed

2296
01:43:47.819 --> 01:43:49.739
with no action in it whatsoever.

2297
01:43:50.159 --> 01:43:55.020
And you'll get a glimpse into what he he was trying to do or he

2298
01:43:55.020 --> 01:43:55.560
would have done here.

2299
01:43:56.520 --> 01:43:58.319
And look at this.

2300
01:43:58.380 --> 01:43:59.039
Brilliant.

2301
01:43:59.100 --> 01:44:01.079
I mean, she looks stunning on that page.

2302
01:44:01.140 --> 01:44:03.300
She's beautiful, you know.

2303
01:44:04.319 --> 01:44:08.340
I think she might have the fullest lips of any actress I've ever

2304
01:44:08.340 --> 01:44:08.819
seen.

2305
01:44:09.000 --> 01:44:12.180
Well, LaVar Burton.

2306
01:44:12.359 --> 01:44:14.819
What actress I said, you know.

2307
01:44:14.880 --> 01:44:16.020
Oh okay, fair enough.

2308
01:44:16.199 --> 01:44:20.340
Imagine a kiss scene between Levar Burton and Jerry Ryan.

2309
01:44:20.399 --> 01:44:21.659
Oh, man, it would be fun.

2310
01:44:21.720 --> 01:44:23.520
Yeah, you could hear it in his way.

2311
01:44:23.579 --> 01:44:27.239
So, I, what...

2312
01:44:27.300 --> 01:44:34.560
So this is, this is why Ransom decides to cut, cut it out.

2313
01:44:34.619 --> 01:44:35.520
Isn't it?

2314
01:44:35.579 --> 01:44:36.060
Is it?

2315
01:44:36.119 --> 01:44:37.260
Why?

2316
01:44:37.319 --> 01:44:38.819
He's feeling guilty.

2317
01:44:38.819 --> 01:44:43.079
His guilt is manifesting itself as 7 of nine, and she just turned

2318
01:44:43.079 --> 01:44:44.340
into one of the weird aliens.

2319
01:44:44.460 --> 01:44:48.359
So he's now guilty about as well. now, oh, do you know that?

2320
01:44:48.420 --> 01:44:50.520
Maybe I did something wrong, you know?

2321
01:44:50.579 --> 01:44:51.779
Yeah, yeah.

2322
01:44:51.840 --> 01:44:54.720
I mean, we did have all these conversations in the last episode

2323
01:44:54.720 --> 01:44:57.840
about it, but I'm just coming to the realisation now that killing

2324
01:44:57.840 --> 01:45:02.760
those people, that was not a savvy move, morally speaking, but I

2325
01:45:02.760 --> 01:45:05.399
mean, he does have to cross a line here, doesn't he, where he

2326
01:45:05.399 --> 01:45:06.779
actually kills another human being?

2327
01:45:07.199 --> 01:45:09.600
Yeah, you know, yeah.

2328
01:45:09.659 --> 01:45:12.000
But they they they need this now, don't they?

2329
01:45:12.060 --> 01:45:15.420
in order for the riveting climax of him choosing to sacrifice

2330
01:45:15.420 --> 01:45:18.300
himself to make any sense because if he just did that without any

2331
01:45:18.300 --> 01:45:19.859
of this, we'd be going, well.

2332
01:45:20.100 --> 01:45:22.319
But I mean, no, but this doesn't make it make any sense.

2333
01:45:22.380 --> 01:45:25.319
That's the problem because none of that, like, what is happening

2334
01:45:25.319 --> 01:45:25.680
there?

2335
01:45:25.739 --> 01:45:28.979
We're having to kind of do your archeology to work it out.

2336
01:45:29.039 --> 01:45:31.020
I'll say at least it's open to interpretation.

2337
01:45:31.079 --> 01:45:32.880
There's a crumb.

2338
01:45:32.939 --> 01:45:35.279
There's a crumb there that you can take and try and make something

2339
01:45:35.279 --> 01:45:35.760
out of.

2340
01:45:35.819 --> 01:45:40.140
But essentially he's doing it for kind of narrative reasons, I

2341
01:45:40.140 --> 01:45:40.319
think.

2342
01:45:41.279 --> 01:45:45.899
Lower Dexto, a line like that, you know, like, we need to bring

2343
01:45:45.899 --> 01:45:47.520
this episode to an end, you know?

2344
01:45:47.520 --> 01:45:52.079
Someone's... doesn't quite go as 4th wall as that, actually.

2345
01:45:52.140 --> 01:45:53.939
Someone's got to sacrifice themselves.

2346
01:45:54.000 --> 01:45:54.779
Who's it going to be?

2347
01:45:56.939 --> 01:45:59.399
Yeah, now Martyr's just...

2348
01:45:59.520 --> 01:45:59.760
Yeah.

2349
01:45:59.819 --> 01:46:04.739
No, she, so she, she's on his side. isn't she?

2350
01:46:04.739 --> 01:46:08.760
Like, she's losing her will to murder at this point as well.

2351
01:46:08.819 --> 01:46:11.220
There is no through line with her character.

2352
01:46:11.279 --> 01:46:14.699
She does what the plot needs her to do. doesn't she?

2353
01:46:14.760 --> 01:46:17.939
And that's a shame because I don't think the actress is terrible.

2354
01:46:18.000 --> 01:46:20.340
No, no, but that's it.

2355
01:46:20.460 --> 01:46:24.779
You only have 4 characters on the on equinox and you aren't able

2356
01:46:24.779 --> 01:46:29.699
to make them distinct or give them viewpoints or anything, you

2357
01:46:29.699 --> 01:46:29.939
know?

2358
01:46:30.000 --> 01:46:35.039
I kind of feel like the people who possessed our crew on PowerPlay

2359
01:46:35.039 --> 01:46:40.859
were more skilfully drawn.

2360
01:46:40.920 --> 01:46:43.079
They were certainly more fun, weren't they?

2361
01:46:43.140 --> 01:46:44.159
They were.

2362
01:46:44.220 --> 01:46:46.020
Oh, Marina service.

2363
01:46:46.079 --> 01:46:47.760
Everyone get down on the floor.

2364
01:46:49.859 --> 01:46:53.640
Oh, why are we watching Marina has a gun?

2365
01:46:53.699 --> 01:46:55.560
Well, you were bored during that one.

2366
01:46:57.239 --> 01:46:58.979
But you know what?

2367
01:46:59.039 --> 01:47:02.220
You watch a lot more Star Trek and suddenly you start to re

2368
01:47:01.619 --> 01:47:03.300
evaluate the ones you've already done.

2369
01:47:03.359 --> 01:47:05.279
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2370
01:47:07.199 --> 01:47:09.180
Yeah, so what does he do?

2371
01:47:09.239 --> 01:47:10.380
He transports them.

2372
01:47:10.439 --> 01:47:14.340
He saves them by transporting them on Voyager, which was always

2373
01:47:14.340 --> 01:47:15.779
the oldest.

2374
01:47:15.840 --> 01:47:16.619
Did you see that?

2375
01:47:16.680 --> 01:47:17.460
The cell blow up there.

2376
01:47:17.579 --> 01:47:19.380
Yeah, that looks great, didn't they?

2377
01:47:19.439 --> 01:47:19.979
Very good.

2378
01:47:20.039 --> 01:47:21.420
See more trailer fuel?

2379
01:47:21.479 --> 01:47:22.979
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2380
01:47:23.039 --> 01:47:23.880
That's good though.

2381
01:47:23.939 --> 01:47:26.399
The ship's limping along now with a smokiness cell.

2382
01:47:26.520 --> 01:47:28.979
Yeah, the smoke isn't quite working.

2383
01:47:29.039 --> 01:47:29.939
It's bad.

2384
01:47:29.939 --> 01:47:30.899
They try.

2385
01:47:30.960 --> 01:47:34.140
That's such a telling sign that we're not keeping the equinox

2386
01:47:34.140 --> 01:47:34.500
isn't it?

2387
01:47:34.560 --> 01:47:36.000
They just destroyed the nacelle.

2388
01:47:36.119 --> 01:47:37.560
It's limping along.

2389
01:47:37.800 --> 01:47:41.399
Nathan, I wonder who could possibly sacrifice himself on the

2390
01:47:41.399 --> 01:47:41.640
ship.

2391
01:47:41.760 --> 01:47:45.300
Oh, yeah, no, no, but aren't we already planning we're on the

2392
01:47:45.300 --> 01:47:50.699
equinox and Ransom and Marla are planning to beam everyone aboard

2393
01:47:50.699 --> 01:47:51.239
Voyager?

2394
01:47:51.539 --> 01:47:53.399
Oh, I forgot.

2395
01:47:53.460 --> 01:47:54.720
Maybe I chipped out at this point.

2396
01:47:54.779 --> 01:47:58.140
I do like Federation ship against Federation ship, but they don't

2397
01:47:58.140 --> 01:47:58.739
do it too often.

2398
01:47:58.800 --> 01:48:01.020
Yeah, that's what would have been great about this.

2399
01:48:01.079 --> 01:48:04.140
You know, that's what was really, you know, the thing, I think.

2400
01:48:05.460 --> 01:48:08.039
So who is it that ends up staying?

2401
01:48:08.100 --> 01:48:09.659
It's Marta Rickworthy.

2402
01:48:10.199 --> 01:48:16.319
Um, maybe, I don't know, there's some guy who has an Italian name

2403
01:48:16.319 --> 01:48:19.079
who we've just seen in the background, because it looks like

2404
01:48:19.079 --> 01:48:22.619
there's only 4 people, but there's probably about 10 different

2405
01:48:22.619 --> 01:48:29.520
people that we see, and like it was a crew of 80 of whom 39 of

2406
01:48:29.520 --> 01:48:31.680
them are killed in the 1st week.

2407
01:48:31.739 --> 01:48:36.899
And I think we see 3 or 4 people killed in that opening scene on.

2408
01:48:36.960 --> 01:48:40.560
Can I make a case for just how badly plotted these seasons are

2409
01:48:40.560 --> 01:48:40.920
right?

2410
01:48:40.979 --> 01:48:42.539
Then later on in series 6.

2411
01:48:42.600 --> 01:48:46.319
There's an episode called Good Shepherd, which features Janeway

2412
01:48:46.319 --> 01:48:51.300
having to take 4 unruly crew members away in a shuttlecraft to

2413
01:48:51.300 --> 01:48:55.079
teach them to behave themselves and, you know, to be better people

2414
01:48:55.079 --> 01:48:55.920
on the ship.

2415
01:48:55.979 --> 01:48:59.579
Why the fuck couldn't it have been these 4 from the equinox?

2416
01:49:00.000 --> 01:49:02.220
I mean, it's right for it.

2417
01:49:02.279 --> 01:49:03.420
It's raw.

2418
01:49:03.539 --> 01:49:06.600
So why are they doing that when they did exactly the same premise

2419
01:49:06.600 --> 01:49:07.619
with Tuvok?

2420
01:49:08.640 --> 01:49:10.079
It's exactly...

2421
01:49:11.939 --> 01:49:14.579
Do you know what's even more galling?

2422
01:49:14.640 --> 01:49:18.300
is they all look a bit like the crew before this.

2423
01:49:18.300 --> 01:49:23.340
I'm like, are you people talking in this writer's room?

2424
01:49:23.699 --> 01:49:25.979
It's funny too, isn't it?

2425
01:49:26.039 --> 01:49:29.340
It's because we had the McKee who came from another ship that was

2426
01:49:29.340 --> 01:49:33.180
destroyed. and they weren't totally on board with us for a little

2427
01:49:33.180 --> 01:49:35.159
while and then they all immediately got over it.

2428
01:49:35.220 --> 01:49:39.060
And then we have another ship where new people come on board and

2429
01:49:39.060 --> 01:49:40.380
they were the evil ship.

2430
01:49:41.460 --> 01:49:45.119
And, you know, they're never seen or spoken of again.

2431
01:49:45.180 --> 01:49:49.560
Apparently, one of them gets mentioned twice or appears on screen

2432
01:49:49.560 --> 01:49:52.979
twice later, an equinox crew member.

2433
01:49:53.399 --> 01:49:55.319
Okay, sure it's not in one of the books.

2434
01:49:55.380 --> 01:49:56.819
Is he actually in the series?

2435
01:49:56.880 --> 01:49:58.560
Yeah, I think so.

2436
01:49:58.619 --> 01:50:01.079
I think that's what memory Alpha suggested.

2437
01:50:01.140 --> 01:50:04.380
But like, you know, if this was GS9, that character, those

2438
01:50:04.380 --> 01:50:07.140
characters would have running storylines after this, wouldn't

2439
01:50:07.140 --> 01:50:07.319
they?

2440
01:50:07.380 --> 01:50:08.100
Yeah.

2441
01:50:08.159 --> 01:50:08.819
Yeah.

2442
01:50:10.140 --> 01:50:11.880
So...

2443
01:50:11.880 --> 01:50:15.479
You remember what was just saying earlier about, you know, watching

2444
01:50:15.479 --> 01:50:18.960
a lot of Star Trek and then sort of comparing it, the stuff we've

2445
01:50:18.960 --> 01:50:19.380
already done.

2446
01:50:19.439 --> 01:50:22.260
Remember when we did darkling and the doctor went evil when he was

2447
01:50:22.260 --> 01:50:24.720
sort of that hunched Jekyll and Hyde Evil?

2448
01:50:24.779 --> 01:50:27.659
I'm coming to reevaluate that after watching the evil dogs are

2449
01:50:27.659 --> 01:50:29.159
here because he's a bit dull here, isn't he?

2450
01:50:29.699 --> 01:50:32.760
Yeah, oh, it's so perfunctory.

2451
01:50:32.819 --> 01:50:34.140
It's so shit.

2452
01:50:34.199 --> 01:50:38.520
And like, you know, I don't know, Darkling wasn't a great episode

2453
01:50:38.520 --> 01:50:43.319
but it had an attempt to sort of have an atmosphere and do some

2454
01:50:43.319 --> 01:50:43.739
different things.

2455
01:50:43.800 --> 01:50:47.039
It had that fabulous sequence on top of the ravine.

2456
01:50:47.159 --> 01:50:47.640
Remember?

2457
01:50:47.699 --> 01:50:48.720
What easy?

2458
01:50:49.319 --> 01:50:51.539
I'm going to throw you up.

2459
01:50:52.560 --> 01:50:53.520
He's dead.

2460
01:50:54.840 --> 01:50:57.659
Oh, there's only one life sign left.

2461
01:50:57.960 --> 01:51:00.479
Oh, see, now they talk.

2462
01:51:00.539 --> 01:51:01.979
Does she get on the phone with him now?

2463
01:51:02.039 --> 01:51:02.760
Yes.

2464
01:51:02.819 --> 01:51:05.399
I'd like you to just say, are they doing this all along?

2465
01:51:05.460 --> 01:51:08.220
Between this scene while they're talking, I'd like you to notice

2466
01:51:08.220 --> 01:51:11.340
all the rock chippings that are on the floor behind Janeway.

2467
01:51:11.399 --> 01:51:12.479
Voyager.

2468
01:51:12.539 --> 01:51:14.100
They're going to have to hoover their mind.

2469
01:51:15.060 --> 01:51:18.659
I just wish one person would ask a question about those rocks.

2470
01:51:18.720 --> 01:51:20.220
Why are they here?

2471
01:51:21.119 --> 01:51:24.180
But I like how she wants to get him back.

2472
01:51:24.239 --> 01:51:26.100
She should be trying to get him back.

2473
01:51:26.159 --> 01:51:27.720
Don't you think?

2474
01:51:28.739 --> 01:51:31.079
That's not, that's it.

2475
01:51:31.140 --> 01:51:33.000
That's their dialogue scene in this episode.

2476
01:51:33.000 --> 01:51:34.859
It was about 20 seconds long.

2477
01:51:34.920 --> 01:51:36.300
Yeah, yeah.

2478
01:51:36.359 --> 01:51:37.920
And then a big explosion.

2479
01:51:39.239 --> 01:51:40.859
Crazy.

2480
01:51:40.920 --> 01:51:44.279
A bit of a shame. explosion happening on board, the thing.

2481
01:51:44.340 --> 01:51:48.180
Oh yeah, so, but I like, this is a touch, even though this is a

2482
01:51:48.180 --> 01:51:52.859
complete waste of time, the holodeck thing, where, like, I was a

2483
01:51:52.859 --> 01:51:56.880
bit surprised that the camera came across and we saw him, and

2484
01:51:56.880 --> 01:52:00.239
that's him, he, this is him, he's about to die here.

2485
01:52:00.300 --> 01:52:04.079
And of course, he's purified because he feels bad about all the

2486
01:52:04.079 --> 01:52:05.039
murder he did earlier.

2487
01:52:05.100 --> 01:52:08.039
Um, so it's okay.

2488
01:52:08.100 --> 01:52:08.880
Does he go to heaven?

2489
01:52:08.939 --> 01:52:09.779
Is he in heaven?

2490
01:52:09.840 --> 01:52:10.260
Look at that.

2491
01:52:10.319 --> 01:52:12.539
So it's okay.

2492
01:52:12.539 --> 01:52:15.000
Because he's in a pretty location wearing nice clothes.

2493
01:52:15.060 --> 01:52:16.079
He feels a bit bad about it.

2494
01:52:16.140 --> 01:52:17.460
Now he explodes.

2495
01:52:19.739 --> 01:52:24.180
Gosh, my, what a moral journey. explosion.

2496
01:52:24.659 --> 01:52:26.399
For no reason.

2497
01:52:27.239 --> 01:52:30.840
Can I very quickly just quote for the uniform again?

2498
01:52:31.140 --> 01:52:35.279
Because in the climaxic scene where they talk on the bridge.

2499
01:52:35.340 --> 01:52:38.819
You know, you've got like, you portrayed your uniform and you're

2500
01:52:38.819 --> 01:52:40.199
betraying yours right now.

2501
01:52:40.260 --> 01:52:42.960
The trouble is you can't, it's great dialogue.

2502
01:52:43.020 --> 01:52:45.600
What the hell was that between Janeway and Ransom?

2503
01:52:45.720 --> 01:52:47.460
Yeah, yeah.

2504
01:52:47.520 --> 01:52:50.100
Yeah, it was nothing because it wasn't about what they'd done.

2505
01:52:50.159 --> 01:52:51.600
You know, nothing happens.

2506
01:52:51.659 --> 01:52:54.840
She seems to have forgiven him on no evidence.

2507
01:52:54.899 --> 01:52:58.500
I do, like he said, things didn't quite work out how I hoped.

2508
01:52:58.560 --> 01:53:01.800
That was pretty cool understatement, but, you know, I don't know.

2509
01:53:01.920 --> 01:53:04.199
I think boys is a little bit too embarrassed, you know, to push

2510
01:53:04.199 --> 01:53:06.300
the melodrama bottom as far as it should go.

2511
01:53:06.359 --> 01:53:08.340
Yeah, yeah, I think so.

2512
01:53:08.399 --> 01:53:14.699
But they're not too embarrassed to do that bridge banter thing and

2513
01:53:14.699 --> 01:53:15.300
they should be.

2514
01:53:15.359 --> 01:53:17.279
You got that right, turkey platter.

2515
01:53:19.500 --> 01:53:25.260
So, so it's like, 7 goes, maybe you should have security protocols

2516
01:53:25.260 --> 01:53:30.359
so that people can't just say, hey, Siri, make the doctor evil, and

2517
01:53:30.359 --> 01:53:34.680
then he becomes evil, maybe we should have some things that

2518
01:53:34.680 --> 01:53:36.119
prevent that from working.

2519
01:53:36.180 --> 01:53:38.340
That's fair, please.

2520
01:53:38.640 --> 01:53:46.439
So these 2 are friends again, because the previous thing didn't

2521
01:53:46.439 --> 01:53:48.300
matter, it wasn't a moral decision at all.

2522
01:53:48.359 --> 01:53:51.420
The doctor didn't turn evil in any sense.

2523
01:53:51.479 --> 01:53:54.720
You know, he just, you know, like it's dumb.

2524
01:53:54.779 --> 01:53:57.060
It was evil for space reasons.

2525
01:53:57.119 --> 01:54:01.380
And in an episode that's about human evil, that's pathetic, I

2526
01:54:01.380 --> 01:54:01.680
think.

2527
01:54:01.739 --> 01:54:06.840
I just think all of those Dr. 7 scenes were perfunctory, that

2528
01:54:06.840 --> 01:54:11.039
climax was just, okay, we're back to normal. just ridiculous.

2529
01:54:11.100 --> 01:54:11.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2530
01:54:11.819 --> 01:54:15.180
Wasting time that could have been, yeah, more manually elsewhere.

2531
01:54:15.239 --> 01:54:16.560
Yeah.

2532
01:54:16.619 --> 01:54:17.760
Oh, I don't know.

2533
01:54:17.819 --> 01:54:19.739
They're quite cute, somebody's equinox crew, you know.

2534
01:54:19.800 --> 01:54:23.699
This one looks like a sort of rugby player of a second.

2535
01:54:23.760 --> 01:54:25.079
There's no settle, that's worthy.

2536
01:54:25.140 --> 01:54:26.460
Or do we see him again then?

2537
01:54:26.520 --> 01:54:27.180
Worthy.

2538
01:54:27.239 --> 01:54:27.600
No.

2539
01:54:27.659 --> 01:54:28.439
No, no.

2540
01:54:28.500 --> 01:54:31.199
He'll be back in Enterprise series 3 though.

2541
01:54:33.300 --> 01:54:36.239
Who does he play against Zindie number four?

2542
01:54:36.300 --> 01:54:38.579
Zindi Arboreal.

2543
01:54:38.640 --> 01:54:42.000
He's got a name. or something?

2544
01:54:42.060 --> 01:54:43.979
He lives in a tree.

2545
01:54:44.039 --> 01:54:45.899
He's a he's a monkey.

2546
01:54:45.960 --> 01:54:49.079
It's unfortunate.

2547
01:54:49.140 --> 01:54:53.579
He'll say, remember those exciting times of equinox when I had a

2548
01:54:53.579 --> 01:54:54.779
genuine character to play.

2549
01:54:55.439 --> 01:54:57.659
What is his name?

2550
01:54:57.720 --> 01:55:00.180
Yeah, this is so poor.

2551
01:55:00.239 --> 01:55:06.239
So this is them talking about getting together and neither of them

2552
01:55:06.239 --> 01:55:08.279
are making eye contact with each other.

2553
01:55:08.399 --> 01:55:10.500
Will I see you there?

2554
01:55:10.560 --> 01:55:12.600
They agree to make a salad together.

2555
01:55:12.659 --> 01:55:15.899
So that's something now they're making eye contact across the

2556
01:55:15.899 --> 01:55:16.260
bridge.

2557
01:55:16.319 --> 01:55:19.079
They bridge to make us.

2558
01:55:19.079 --> 01:55:20.159
Salad together.

2559
01:55:20.220 --> 01:55:20.880
They do.

2560
01:55:20.939 --> 01:55:22.260
That's subtext.

2561
01:55:22.319 --> 01:55:25.560
You know how I said that Star Trek never does subtext?

2562
01:55:25.619 --> 01:55:29.039
Sometimes they do shitty subs.

2563
01:55:29.100 --> 01:55:33.659
I'd rather I'd rather go into a cupboard like Odo and Kira did

2564
01:55:33.720 --> 01:55:35.340
just don't hear the dialogue at all.

2565
01:55:35.399 --> 01:55:37.800
They come out straightening their clothing.

2566
01:55:37.920 --> 01:55:41.039
Well, that's sort of how they were playing that, as if they

2567
01:55:41.039 --> 01:55:41.939
fucked.

2568
01:55:42.000 --> 01:55:44.699
And they were a bit awkward about it. they weren't looking at each

2569
01:55:44.699 --> 01:55:44.939
other.

2570
01:55:45.000 --> 01:55:46.020
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2571
01:55:46.560 --> 01:55:49.739
That happened in resolutions in series 2 might.

2572
01:55:50.279 --> 01:55:53.760
Back when there was a bit of potential with this relationship.

2573
01:55:53.819 --> 01:55:55.020
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2574
01:55:55.079 --> 01:55:57.779
When the medium Robert was still bothering.

2575
01:55:57.840 --> 01:55:59.340
Yeah, here's some more subtext.

2576
01:55:59.399 --> 01:56:01.439
Let's put this sign together.

2577
01:56:01.500 --> 01:56:02.340
Yes.

2578
01:56:02.399 --> 01:56:03.720
I know.

2579
01:56:03.779 --> 01:56:06.600
But that's the thing, that dedication plaque.

2580
01:56:06.659 --> 01:56:07.739
Like, that's a kind of thing.

2581
01:56:07.859 --> 01:56:09.840
That's a Star Trek thing.

2582
01:56:09.899 --> 01:56:13.020
I'm not sure if you can see just in the background of the set

2583
01:56:13.020 --> 01:56:13.560
there.

2584
01:56:13.619 --> 01:56:17.520
That's Rob Moore off to the office to hand in his notice. after

2585
01:56:17.520 --> 01:56:18.479
this scene's playing out.

2586
01:56:18.539 --> 01:56:19.020
Yeah.

2587
01:56:20.520 --> 01:56:25.020
Look, but look at the handsome extra who's looking really busy.

2588
01:56:25.079 --> 01:56:27.180
We can only see the back of his neck, but it's a handsome neck.

2589
01:56:27.239 --> 01:56:29.100
That's the part of the set.

2590
01:56:29.159 --> 01:56:29.880
I never notice, you know.

2591
01:56:29.939 --> 01:56:31.920
I was noticing more while we're doing it, is that sort of side

2592
01:56:31.920 --> 01:56:32.520
console?

2593
01:56:34.380 --> 01:56:34.859
There you go.

2594
01:56:34.920 --> 01:56:37.859
Janeway looks a bit worn about what's occurred this week.

2595
01:56:37.920 --> 01:56:44.520
Yeah, like, yeah, but we're putting the that plaque hasn't ever

2596
01:56:44.520 --> 01:56:50.819
fallen down before, except 2 years ago when I was unconscious and

2597
01:56:50.819 --> 01:56:54.600
you just decided you would do whatever the fuck you wanted, despite

2598
01:56:54.600 --> 01:56:58.380
what my commands were, but we're going to put the plaque back up

2599
01:56:58.380 --> 01:57:01.079
and maybe it'll stay up there for another 2 years.

2600
01:57:04.199 --> 01:57:05.640
It was so sad, right?

2601
01:57:05.699 --> 01:57:10.680
Is, is these, um, the 1st 4 episodes, so the 4 episodes that Rob

2602
01:57:10.680 --> 01:57:14.939
Moore had involvement with in series 6, you get survival in

2603
01:57:14.939 --> 01:57:18.180
Sticknecks, which is a great 7 episode, Barge of the Dead, which

2604
01:57:18.180 --> 01:57:22.859
is a fantastic Balanatores episode, and then Tinker Taylor, Dr. Spy

2605
01:57:22.859 --> 01:57:25.619
which is probably the best Voyager comedy they did, right?

2606
01:57:25.680 --> 01:57:28.079
I remember watching these going out one after another.

2607
01:57:28.140 --> 01:57:31.260
I wasn't too impressed with this and I was like, Jesus Christ, DS9

2608
01:57:31.260 --> 01:57:34.680
is off the air and Voyager is up in its game. what's going on?

2609
01:57:34.739 --> 01:57:38.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah. and then run more goes and the next episode you

2610
01:57:38.340 --> 01:57:39.060
get is Alice.

2611
01:57:41.880 --> 01:57:45.420
Oh shit, all the talents left the building.

2612
01:57:48.659 --> 01:57:51.000
That was a thing.

2613
01:57:51.000 --> 01:57:52.079
That happened.

2614
01:57:52.140 --> 01:57:58.260
No, that was it was a perfectly reasonable 2 hours of television.

2615
01:57:58.619 --> 01:58:04.500
Yeah. that failed to take the opportunities that were so obviously

2616
01:58:04.500 --> 01:58:05.100
there.

2617
01:58:05.220 --> 01:58:07.680
Yeah, it could have been so good.

2618
01:58:07.800 --> 01:58:11.399
It could really have been good, but at this point, they're much

2619
01:58:11.399 --> 01:58:15.720
more concerned with spectacle, which is good, but the dialogue is

2620
01:58:15.720 --> 01:58:19.260
just functional, and they can't examine a thing.

2621
01:58:19.319 --> 01:58:23.279
You know, it's not about anything, as Ron Moore said, I think.

2622
01:58:23.340 --> 01:58:27.239
Well, it's been our, of the, voyager episodes that we've done so

2623
01:58:27.239 --> 01:58:27.899
far.

2624
01:58:27.960 --> 01:58:29.279
What's been the highlights for you?

2625
01:58:29.340 --> 01:58:29.939
Counterpoint?

2626
01:58:30.000 --> 01:58:32.640
Yeah, I like counterpoint a lot.

2627
01:58:32.699 --> 01:58:37.020
I think it's just got a really good guest performance, and it just

2628
01:58:37.020 --> 01:58:39.899
does sort of fairly standard Star Trek things, but it's just, it

2629
01:58:39.899 --> 01:58:40.920
does them very well, I think.

2630
01:58:40.979 --> 01:58:42.779
We liked a lot of Scorpion.

2631
01:58:42.899 --> 01:58:46.140
We had some reservations, but we did we did enjoy Scorpion a lot.

2632
01:58:46.199 --> 01:58:47.159
Yeah.

2633
01:58:47.220 --> 01:58:50.159
The heerogen 2 party. you really liked, didn't you?

2634
01:58:50.220 --> 01:58:50.880
Killing games?

2635
01:58:50.939 --> 01:58:52.140
Yeah, I think that's really fun.

2636
01:58:52.199 --> 01:58:54.779
Again, sort of big scale action and stuff.

2637
01:58:54.840 --> 01:58:58.260
So is that where this show's at his best doing spectacle rather

2638
01:58:58.260 --> 01:58:58.920
than...

2639
01:58:58.920 --> 01:59:00.239
I think so.

2640
01:59:00.300 --> 01:59:03.180
I mean, I think sometimes they do things that are quiet and

2641
01:59:03.180 --> 01:59:07.199
interesting, but what they don't do is character staff.

2642
01:59:07.260 --> 01:59:11.880
And I think they only ever examine sort of issues that are really

2643
01:59:11.880 --> 01:59:14.039
basic superficial level.

2644
01:59:14.100 --> 01:59:18.119
Like when you look at something like workforce or critical care.

2645
01:59:18.239 --> 01:59:22.319
There's clearly a political message, but it's a really obvious

2646
01:59:22.319 --> 01:59:26.819
political message that's made in a very obvious way, and it's

2647
01:59:26.819 --> 01:59:29.520
almost like they're doing it because they feel that's the sort of

2648
01:59:29.520 --> 01:59:33.659
thing Star Trek should do rather than because they have strong

2649
01:59:33.659 --> 01:59:37.319
feelings about particular political issues, but I don't know, I

2650
01:59:37.319 --> 01:59:38.159
can't read their minds.

2651
01:59:38.220 --> 01:59:44.399
It's fun and high concept Voyager is fun and, you know, even when

2652
01:59:44.399 --> 01:59:46.020
it's crappy, there's things to laugh at.

2653
01:59:46.140 --> 01:59:51.300
Can I give the final word of this episode then to friend of this

2654
01:59:51.300 --> 01:59:57.420
podcast, Tom Solinski, who once again plug his trekker days.

2655
01:59:57.479 --> 02:00:01.260
Now, we're very often at crossroads with our opinions of episodes

2656
02:00:01.260 --> 02:00:05.340
but he managed to, in a tweet, he manages to really sort of

2657
02:00:05.340 --> 02:00:08.579
encompass a solid argument for an episode.

2658
02:00:08.640 --> 02:00:13.500
And when he was reviewing Endgame, He did give it 4.5 stars out of

2659
02:00:13.500 --> 02:00:17.579
five, but he said, which can always be relied upon never to

2660
02:00:17.579 --> 02:00:19.800
confront the human cost of its premise.

2661
02:00:19.859 --> 02:00:23.279
Provided you accept that, there's a lot of fun to be had here.

2662
02:00:23.340 --> 02:00:24.960
And I think that's perfect.

2663
02:00:25.079 --> 02:00:26.220
Yeah.

2664
02:00:26.279 --> 02:00:27.479
Yeah, I think so.

2665
02:00:33.539 --> 02:00:37.199
All right, it's the end of the episode and it is time for us to

2666
02:00:37.199 --> 02:00:42.300
decide what we're going to be watching next time.

2667
02:00:42.359 --> 02:00:50.100
It's my turn, and I have decided that we are going to do an

2668
02:00:50.100 --> 02:00:51.720
episode of the original series.

2669
02:00:51.779 --> 02:00:56.699
Oh, you can almost guarantee wherever way the quality swings, we're

2670
02:00:56.699 --> 02:00:57.659
going to have fun with this.

2671
02:00:57.720 --> 02:01:00.840
Now, part of the problem with this is always that there are

2672
02:01:00.840 --> 02:01:04.560
episodes that I don't know what they are necessarily, and there

2673
02:01:04.560 --> 02:01:08.939
are some that I almost certainly haven't seen, but let's see how

2674
02:01:08.939 --> 02:01:09.420
we go.

2675
02:01:09.720 --> 02:01:13.619
I'm going to pull up our reference site, jammer reviews.

2676
02:01:13.680 --> 02:01:17.399
So we'll know what the episode is all about.

2677
02:01:17.460 --> 02:01:19.500
Okay, I'm ready.

2678
02:01:19.560 --> 02:01:20.279
All right.

2679
02:01:20.340 --> 02:01:21.239
Here goes.

2680
02:01:21.359 --> 02:01:23.460
Yeah, no idea.

2681
02:01:23.520 --> 02:01:28.380
Your random Star Trek, the original series episode is patterns of

2682
02:01:28.380 --> 02:01:28.800
force.

2683
02:01:28.920 --> 02:01:31.859
Season 2, episode 21.

2684
02:01:32.100 --> 02:01:34.260
Okay, just one moment then, please.

2685
02:01:34.319 --> 02:01:39.899
Patsons of force, investigating the disappearance of a missing

2686
02:01:39.899 --> 02:01:44.039
Starfleet officer, an enterprise landing party beams down onto a

2687
02:01:44.039 --> 02:01:46.140
planet, modelled on Nazi Germany.

2688
02:01:46.199 --> 02:01:49.380
Oh, that sounds absolutely terrible.

2689
02:01:49.439 --> 02:01:51.420
I think we might have to do it, you know.

2690
02:01:51.479 --> 02:01:53.399
No, I've already pressed the button.

2691
02:01:55.199 --> 02:02:00.659
It's the changeling, which obviously we did in episode 32.

2692
02:02:01.859 --> 02:02:04.140
Was that the fabulous one?

2693
02:02:04.199 --> 02:02:06.180
Nomad robot that was going around on the street.

2694
02:02:06.239 --> 02:02:08.279
It was great, wouldn't it?

2695
02:02:08.340 --> 02:02:09.300
pretty good.

2696
02:02:09.359 --> 02:02:10.800
How about this one?

2697
02:02:10.859 --> 02:02:13.560
Uh, the Galileo 7?

2698
02:02:13.619 --> 02:02:16.020
Season one, episode 16?

2699
02:02:16.079 --> 02:02:20.100
During a shuttle mission, Spock's 1st command becomes a struggle

2700
02:02:20.100 --> 02:02:24.060
of logical decisions when the team becomes stranded on a desolate

2701
02:02:24.060 --> 02:02:27.119
planet, which does sound like every other episode, the original

2702
02:02:27.119 --> 02:02:30.840
series, but Jamma kindly gives it 3.5 stars out of four.

2703
02:02:30.960 --> 02:02:34.319
I think it's a pretty kind of well-known one.

2704
02:02:34.380 --> 02:02:37.800
It is a bit of a classic and the Galileo is the name of the

2705
02:02:37.800 --> 02:02:38.399
shuttle.

2706
02:02:38.460 --> 02:02:42.659
And so it has them on a shuttle landing on a planet and things

2707
02:02:42.659 --> 02:02:46.260
instead of just beaming down, which is a thing, but it is a sort

2708
02:02:46.260 --> 02:02:49.140
of Spock episode and a fairly early Spock episode.

2709
02:02:49.199 --> 02:02:49.619
What do you think?

2710
02:02:49.680 --> 02:02:53.279
I don't think we've done too much of season one, have we?

2711
02:02:53.340 --> 02:02:55.439
We've done mostly later, TOS.

2712
02:02:55.500 --> 02:02:56.939
Yeah, I think that sounds great.

2713
02:02:57.000 --> 02:02:59.819
And to have one that's sort of really focussing on Spock as well.

2714
02:02:59.939 --> 02:03:04.199
Give me a chance to compare to all the latest box performances

2715
02:03:04.199 --> 02:03:05.159
I've been watching recently.

2716
02:03:05.520 --> 02:03:07.199
That sounds wonderful.

2717
02:03:07.260 --> 02:03:08.220
Yeah.

2718
02:03:08.279 --> 02:03:11.159
No, I remember watching this when I was much younger and I haven't

2719
02:03:11.159 --> 02:03:12.239
seen it for decades.

2720
02:03:12.300 --> 02:03:14.159
I'll be interested to get back to it and see what I think.

2721
02:03:14.220 --> 02:03:17.340
And we're going down to a desolate planet, so let's see how they

2722
02:03:17.340 --> 02:03:17.939
realise that.

2723
02:03:18.000 --> 02:03:20.640
Yeah, it's in the studio and it'll be fun.

2724
02:03:22.500 --> 02:03:24.840
I'll be I'll be happy then.

2725
02:03:33.000 --> 02:03:37.140
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

2726
02:03:37.140 --> 02:03:41.220
and Nathan Bottomley, where online at untitled Star Trek Project

2727
02:03:40.260 --> 02:03:43.979
com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social

2728
02:03:43.979 --> 02:03:44.819
media accounts.

2729
02:03:44.880 --> 02:03:48.840
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was

2730
02:03:48.840 --> 02:03:50.579
composed by Cameron Lann.

2731
02:03:50.640 --> 02:03:54.840
This episode was recorded on the 26th of September 2023 and

2732
02:03:54.840 --> 02:03:56.699
released on the 29th of September.

2733
02:03:56.760 --> 02:04:00.840
We'll see you next time for Star Trek, the original series, the

2734
02:04:00.840 --> 02:04:02.159
Galileo 7.

2735
02:04:20.220 --> 02:04:21.600
Come on, inside.

2736
02:04:21.659 --> 02:04:22.619
Inside.

2737
02:04:22.680 --> 02:04:24.300
Come on, good boy.

2738
02:04:24.420 --> 02:04:25.260
Good boy.

2739
02:04:25.380 --> 02:04:27.359
Good boy.

2740
02:04:31.739 --> 02:04:33.779
Is it being a good boy?

2741
02:04:34.079 --> 02:04:35.460
Yeah.

2742
02:04:35.520 --> 02:04:37.439
He...

2743
02:04:38.399 --> 02:04:42.119
I don't know what was outside, but there was something that he

2744
02:04:42.119 --> 02:04:42.779
wanted to.

2745
02:04:44.340 --> 02:04:47.399
Chase around in the backyard.

2746
02:04:47.460 --> 02:04:50.220
So anyway, you realise something right.

2747
02:04:50.279 --> 02:04:53.880
There's a couple of little members of the Star Trek project

2748
02:04:53.880 --> 02:04:57.420
audience that just tune in for you ranting.

2749
02:04:57.479 --> 02:04:59.880
This will probably be their favourite episode, yeah.

2750
02:05:03.180 --> 02:05:07.560
Dave Freddy fucking loves it when you go off on one. and so does

2751
02:05:07.560 --> 02:05:08.279
Ross as well.

2752
02:05:13.859 --> 02:05:18.000
No, I do think it's a different sort of tone to anything else

2753
02:05:18.000 --> 02:05:19.920
we've done, which is good, I think.

2754
02:05:21.359 --> 02:05:22.739
Yeah.

2755
02:05:22.800 --> 02:05:25.380
Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah.

2756
02:05:25.439 --> 02:05:29.520
I know, I know we're being a bit, um, Critical.

2757
02:05:29.579 --> 02:05:32.039
But I don't think it doesn't deserve it.

2758
02:05:32.340 --> 02:05:35.159
No, like I think, yeah.

2759
02:05:35.220 --> 02:05:37.680
And if we're going to do the rum.

2760
02:05:38.699 --> 02:05:40.979
There's going to be episodes like this.

2761
02:05:41.220 --> 02:05:43.020
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2762
02:05:43.079 --> 02:05:44.039
I think that's okay, though.

2763
02:05:44.100 --> 02:05:46.500
It is fun. and I like getting a good rant on as well.

2764
02:05:46.560 --> 02:05:47.159
It's funny.

2765
02:05:48.239 --> 02:05:50.399
Which one of water?

2766
02:05:50.399 --> 02:05:51.479
I can hear it, right?

2767
02:05:51.539 --> 02:05:55.140
I can hear how stressed you while talking because your voice just

2768
02:05:55.140 --> 02:05:56.520
goes up and up.

2769
02:05:56.579 --> 02:06:00.180
And then...

2770
02:06:00.180 --> 02:06:02.760
I didn't make Peter Davidson's squeaky voice.

2771
02:06:03.960 --> 02:06:07.319
Oh, wait, I need the wrong more quote.

2772
02:06:07.380 --> 02:06:10.439
It's not going to be massively long, but just a little bit.

2773
02:06:10.500 --> 02:06:10.979
No, no, no.

2774
02:06:11.760 --> 02:06:13.680
You introduce it.

2775
02:06:16.739 --> 02:06:19.199
See, I mean, it's such interesting reading.

2776
02:06:19.260 --> 02:06:21.119
It's way longer than what I sent you as well.

2777
02:06:21.420 --> 02:06:23.520
Like the whole interview.

2778
02:06:23.579 --> 02:06:24.479
It's way, way longer.

2779
02:06:24.539 --> 02:06:25.800
Um.

2780
02:06:25.920 --> 02:06:28.859
The one in memory alpha I thought was really good.

2781
02:06:31.920 --> 02:06:33.119
Yeah, okay, that bit.

2782
02:06:36.899 --> 02:06:38.579
Alfie.

2783
02:06:39.239 --> 02:06:43.079
It'll probably be a couple of minutes, but you know, it'll give

2784
02:06:43.079 --> 02:06:44.100
you loads of talking points.

2785
02:06:44.579 --> 02:06:45.479
Yeah.

2786
02:06:45.539 --> 02:06:46.739
Okay, I'm ready.

2787
02:06:47.159 --> 02:06:49.199
Do you want to introduce it?

2788
02:06:49.859 --> 02:06:54.420
Oh no, you always do that bit. at least you say like, oh, okay.

2789
02:06:54.479 --> 02:06:58.800
Oh, those times are just going, like, this will be, of course, yeah

2790
02:06:58.800 --> 02:06:59.279
yeah, okay.

2791
02:07:00.539 --> 02:07:04.079
So I have been in touch with Ron Moore.