WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 23:13:07

1
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Hey, Joe. Hi.

2
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So this is a bit exciting because I actually discovered watching this last night that this episode of Deep Space Nine, which is series 6, episode two, Rocks and Shoals, is probably a top 10 episode.

3
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It's really, really extraordinarily good.

4
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And I think it's probably better than 2 that we've already done in the Pale Moonlight and Sige of AR 558.

5
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I think it's really, really good.

6
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I think I'm going to agree with you.

7
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I do think rocks and shoals is spoken about in the same breath as those 2 episodes.

8
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So it's not like a shocking statement to put them on par with it or even higher.

9
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Yeah.

10
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I wrote a message to you saying, I think this is so good.

11
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It's top 10 90s trek.

12
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Yeah.

13
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Well, maybe Trek.

14
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Do you know what I mean?

15
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Like, it really blim it.

16
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It's really properly good, I think.

17
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It has the limitations that 90s track has, but it's just well written and well acted and thoughtful and interesting.

18
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I just think it's clever. and it has a magnificent guest star or maybe even 2 magnificent guest stars, but like Phil Morris as the head Jem Hadar is amazing and turns out to have like an incredible Star Trek pedigree.

19
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Yeah.

20
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He's a tiny child in an army helmet in mirri.

21
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He's a hot young cadet in Star Trek.

22
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He is hot Klingon bodyguard guy from looking for Palmark in all the wrong places.

23
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We'll just point out because I do bring my mother into this every now and again, she was hypnotised by his arse in that episode.

24
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Yeah, no, so we'll keep an eye out for that this time.

25
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And he's the, um, the astronaut in one small step in Voyager.

26
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So he's been in a lot of Star Trek and he's so good in this.

27
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Like, he really properly sells it.

28
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And then you've got Christopher Shea's Kievan, the Vorta, who is also magnificent.

29
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Slimy bugger.

30
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Yeah, I want to talk about him quite a lot.

31
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And as you said to me, in the thread.

32
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Thank goodness he gets his very ignoble ending in the magnificent Ferengi.

33
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That's right.

34
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He gets... brilliant rifter.

35
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But like, I just think on every level you could kind of critique this.

36
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I think for 90s trek, this is visually very interesting. they go outside and more on that later because they go outside somewhere and then they add special effects to make it look even more ambitious than it is because that ocean isn't there.

37
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That's all that's all digitally added.

38
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I think it uses all the regulars really well.

39
00:03:18.479 --> 00:03:23.639
We've talked about 90s banter before and I think they get that bang on here.

40
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The humour is just right.

41
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The lines are great.

42
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Ron Moore.

43
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And he can turn a phrase, you know?

44
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He's probably the one writer in 90s trek that can.

45
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So thank God.

46
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He's writing as much DS9 as he is.

47
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I think the dilemma that they put Cisco in. is really interesting and has quite a shocking conclusion.

48
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The Kira plot, which appears very quiet, has the most shocking moment of the entire episode for me when I 1st watched it, my stomach turned.

49
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I mean, it's just, it's, it's really good drama.

50
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We laugh and say, well, Star Trek isn't great drama.

51
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I think this might be one of those times when it is a genuinely good bit of drama.

52
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Yeah, I mean, I have one or 2 reservations and I think there's one scene that I don't like very much, but I think it's incredibly good.

53
00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:18.839
And, like, it's clever in a way that 90s Shrek often isn't.

54
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I was really, really impressed.

55
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And the other thing too, right, is that it manages to be an individual episode with 2 plots that are both about something that both have a beginning, a middle, and an end, even though it's part of this kind of 6 episode arc, which in itself is a great idea as well.

56
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If we lose the station at the end of series 5, retaking it at the end of episode 2 of series 6 is super boring.

57
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And so making them earn it, giving them sort of 6 episodes in which they are yet to retake the station and there's a new status quo is really interesting.

58
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Would it surprise you to learn that the studio did want them to retake the station at Ira Bank?

59
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Oh, I'm not.

60
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Duck his heels in and went, no, that's too easy.

61
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We don't want this to be easy.

62
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It's like you said, uh, with basics, um, part one, is it's that cliffhanger where the premise of the show is threatened.

63
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And that's exactly what happens with a call to ask.

64
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But with Voyager, of course, in basics part two, we do get shit back and we're back on our way to a TOS, you know, flashback episode in next week.

65
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Whereas, can I say about these 6 episodes, for me, I love the last 10 episodes of DS9, I do think they are great, but they are a little bit flabby in places and the melodrama is on another level.

66
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I know we love it.

67
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But it is crazy over the top at times.

68
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And I can see why some people win.

69
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What the hell is this?

70
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Kiss me, Julian, you know.

71
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These 6 episodes.

72
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I think, and there's quite a bold statement to make.

73
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I think this is my favourite section of Star Trek, from a time to stand, to Sacrifice of Angels, I think they do really interesting stuff.

74
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They take the characters to some very dark places.

75
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They throw in some amazing set.

76
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They've learned.

77
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They've had 5 years of storytelling.

78
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They've made a ton of mistakes.

79
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They've learnt what works on this show, and they've decided to take it up to the next level.

80
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They do that in Way of the Warrior, and then they do it again at the end of series 5.

81
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And with these 6 episodes, all the potential that was there locked away in emissary is bearing fruit and it's terrific television.

82
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I remember when it went out, people were responding to it amazingly.

83
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I think Paramount were thinking about closing down the show at the end of 6 and there was no guarantee of 7.

84
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And I think this went out and it can't have hurt their decision too, because there was such a positive reaction to all of this, especially like when it came to sacrifice of angels when people were going, oh, it's just all going to be very disappointing.

85
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And then we were getting space battles on a level that we had never seen before.

86
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I just think this is incredible stuff and it's the best part of my favourite Star Trek show.

87
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So I cannot wait to start talking about it.

88
00:07:11.579 --> 00:07:12.959
Oh, brilliant.

89
00:07:13.019 --> 00:07:14.519
All right, well, what do you think?

90
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Should we start?

91
00:07:15.060 --> 00:07:16.860
You have some things.

92
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Oh, I do.

93
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Yes, I do.

94
00:07:19.019 --> 00:07:24.839
Well, it's just about one of the regular complaints that you have about 90s Strek is the...

95
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Yeah, you have a fucking go outside. artificial exteriors as exemplified by the churchyard in subrosa.

96
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Can you think of any others?

97
00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:41.220
Yeah, just all of those terrible, terrible planet sets in like next time.

98
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Yes, he always wanted to masterpiece society.

99
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What is it?

100
00:07:46.680 --> 00:07:48.660
I say, how could we lose all of this?

101
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Yep, stock colony set one, like all of that.

102
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So here they decide to go outside and do some shooting.

103
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And I don't think they could have done this episode without it.

104
00:08:00.420 --> 00:08:01.740
I don't know how they would have done.

105
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Well, actually, no, seizure Bay off 55A's all inside, isn't it?

106
00:08:04.860 --> 00:08:05.639
Yeah, yeah.

107
00:08:05.699 --> 00:08:06.060
Yeah.

108
00:08:06.120 --> 00:08:07.500
I think it suffers from it a bit.

109
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Although it does mean that we can have night shoots, which we could never have afforded if we'd actually been outside.

110
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Things can happen at night.

111
00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:18.959
By all accounts, it was torturous to film.

112
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These episodes.

113
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But apparently they kept that they were going out on the shortest days of the year as well, sunlight wise.

114
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So they have to keep wrapping up about a 3rd 3rd of the way through the day because they just didn't have any light to shoot in.

115
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Um, Oh my god, it was so hot, says Aaron Eisenberg.

116
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I understand it was 108 degrees.

117
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Oh, Gary Hussle. 120 degrees at the bottom of the pit conveys Laura Richards.

118
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My whole crew was fainting, Jonathan West reports.

119
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It was just blistering, baking hot, and the makeup was melting on camera.

120
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Ron Moore groans.

121
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In other words, it was a typical Deep Space 9 location shoot.

122
00:09:06.360 --> 00:09:07.980
Who is it?

123
00:09:08.039 --> 00:09:13.019
It's Phil Morris and the people who are dressed as Jem Hadar, although presumably.

124
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Yeah, his eye is blood red in one of these things. his lip is coming off as well.

125
00:09:18.179 --> 00:09:21.480
And obviously Nog.

126
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In fact, I was super surprised to see Nog swimming to shore in that fucking latex bed, you know, doing quite a good job.

127
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Well, weighing them down.

128
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Get our Aaron out of the water.

129
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So I love the physicality of that because you don't normally see that sort of thing in 90s.

130
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Just someone coming out of really water, you know?

131
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Yep, absolutely.

132
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I don't know, that's a crazy thing to say about television when we see that sort of thing all the time, but no, I don't think it, you know, like because a lot of these things are shot in the studio and because shooting in the studio is cheaper. putting someone in a situation where they're going up or down, like verticality where they get wet, where there's wind, like all of those sorts of things just create a level of realism that you don't normally get easily in the studio.

133
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It's almost just the vistas here.

134
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Yeah, the space.

135
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It's almost like a glimpse of another type of Star Trek they could have made in the 90s if they did have a bigger budget and they were going on location every week.

136
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It couldn't be as good as this every week.

137
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Yeah.

138
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I do have one other quote, and it is from our fabulous water character, Kivan, Christopher Sheer, who says, I read the script and I just loved it.

139
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It was a dynamite role and so well written.

140
00:10:39.779 --> 00:10:42.059
It reminded me of Shakespeare in many ways.

141
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A lot of actors on the show are classically trained and the writers give you so much to work with.

142
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You can tell he's responding to the script.

143
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Yeah, he probably didn't say that about the magnificent Ferengi.

144
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No.

145
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I love the beerware.

146
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They're all clouded about the place and he just goes, I hate Ferengi.

147
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He's so wonderfully camp, isn't he?

148
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He's terrific.

149
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He goes, well, what's it wrong?

150
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Because what's going to happen?

151
00:11:09.659 --> 00:11:13.860
And he goes, well, the Jemhadar probably got to storm the station and you're all going to be dead.

152
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It's such a great episode.

153
00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:19.320
But, I mean, it's 2 very different tones.

154
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The bit in this where he says to them, either way, they're coming.

155
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Oh, that's such a great moment.

156
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So good.

157
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We'll talk about that as it comes because I think he's incredible and just the relationship that is created between the Vorta and the Jem'Hadar is so interesting and sort of, yeah, just interesting.

158
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They find things to do with it that are really great.

159
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Well, I think we should...

160
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I mean, for me, this is the apotheosis, so let's go.

161
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Yeah, yeah.

162
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I agree.

163
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All right.

164
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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

165
00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:06.120
And we start in a moment of immediate jeopardy.

166
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We're on the Jemhadar ship from a time to stand, which has been damaged.

167
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I don't know if you remember the cliffhanger, but it's Bashir with his new genetically enhanced mind, telling them precisely how long it's going to take to limp home.

168
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It's about 16 years.

169
00:12:18.779 --> 00:12:23.940
I do remember that because Voyager was out and about at this point, wasn't it?

170
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Yeah.

171
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So it's a 5th of the time.

172
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So this is one of the things where I think this banter kind of works, but would have been much better if you were allowed to say fuck on network television in the United States, in the 1990s, because it would have been much funnier to have, you know, rough working class Irishmen, um, actually saying, you know, these fucking thrusters and these fucking things. reroute the damn jar, amazing.

173
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Shut your fucking maradine.

174
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That's right.

175
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Like that would have been great.

176
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And then and then Nog tries to say fucking and get shut down.

177
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That would have been much funny.

178
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Just a quick moment for the viewscreen through the eye implants.

179
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That's a really interesting visual that they don't normally do.

180
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So they don't have screens on board.

181
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The gem had our ship.

182
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And I think the people, like humans can't wear them for long, which is why Garak's along. that right?

183
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Yeah, that's right.

184
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He gets less headaches than this.

185
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You know what, right?

186
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Oh, rocks.

187
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Rocks, there we go.

188
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Rock's coming out of a thing.

189
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Excellent, Gemadar. that makes that work is that the, basically the entire ceiling just fell on top of her, which is in slow motion.

190
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So part of the problem here too is that now we used to action sequences where the cameras are participant.

191
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And so here, it's a little bit handheld, but not very much.

192
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And so all of this seems a bit static.

193
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And it seems a bit cruel to have the most exciting scene go even slower because it's a special effect shot.

194
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Oh there you go.

195
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The camera shook there.

196
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I love the drama of a slow motion.

197
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Gerda falling on somebody.

198
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But I'm kind of post Battlestar Galactica, you know, expecting the camera to whip around, trying to find people and stuff.

199
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Safe on 90s trek.

200
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This is quite a dynamic opening.

201
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And the fact that we are just coming straight in after the last episode.

202
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And that shot is so magnificent, isn't it?

203
00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:19.259
Great.

204
00:14:19.379 --> 00:14:22.200
Well, no, it's Garrett going, hold on.

205
00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:27.179
He's the only one that can see they're about to impact a planet.

206
00:14:27.240 --> 00:14:29.940
It looks really good though, doesn't it?

207
00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:33.899
The planet surface and the ship just sort of spiralling down.

208
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It's really well done.

209
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What impresses me there is there's energy in the writing as well.

210
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We're going back and forth to all the characters.

211
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They're all moving about the set, you know, and then there's the explosions and then the ship's going to crash.

212
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There's a lot happening.

213
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Yeah, yeah.

214
00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:50.399
And that stuff is funny.

215
00:14:50.460 --> 00:14:56.759
Like the, you know, grumpy miles and sort of, um, and...

216
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I fucking love knocking this episode.

217
00:14:59.700 --> 00:15:01.620
Yeah, yeah, I do too.

218
00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:02.279
He's really good.

219
00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:07.679
So, Nathan, you can either stand beside me or in front of me, but I won't turn your mind back on you again.

220
00:15:08.519 --> 00:15:09.179
That's so good.

221
00:15:09.240 --> 00:15:11.759
Having him and Gary together. for you yet.

222
00:15:12.059 --> 00:15:15.840
And I like how Deep Space 9 does that.

223
00:15:15.899 --> 00:15:17.820
I didn't have to mention that.

224
00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:25.559
So I don't know what episode we're referring to. towards the end of series 5, where Garrett turns into a psychopath and tries to give him.

225
00:15:25.620 --> 00:15:26.399
Yeah.

226
00:15:26.460 --> 00:15:28.320
Yeah, and so we need to address it.

227
00:15:28.379 --> 00:15:38.340
Like they say that we need to address it, but they address it in a scene that's funny and that doesn't spend a lot of time giving us details. know, I think it's pretty well done.

228
00:15:38.399 --> 00:15:40.860
Well, so we've read their scenes.

229
00:15:40.919 --> 00:15:43.740
Nog is like technically the superior office size.

230
00:15:43.980 --> 00:15:50.100
But in no way, the bit where Nog tries to give his serial number and Garrett just goes, shut up, shut up.

231
00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:51.480
So good.

232
00:15:51.539 --> 00:15:52.559
So good.

233
00:15:52.620 --> 00:16:00.419
There is one Garak line, which is coming up and you'll know what it is because it's literally the only thing he could possibly have said.

234
00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:04.799
And as I was watching it, even though I haven't seen this episode in 10 years.

235
00:16:04.860 --> 00:16:08.340
He delivered the line at the same time as I delivered it.

236
00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:18.059
I thought it was so funny, I will tell you, but it's the absolute perfect Garak line and it's just beautifully, beautifully performed by Andrew Robinson.

237
00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:19.500
Look at this shot.

238
00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:20.519
That's not real.

239
00:16:20.580 --> 00:16:21.779
Is that that's manadin?

240
00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:22.379
not there.

241
00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:24.120
And you cannot...

242
00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:25.679
No, you can now that you've told me.

243
00:16:25.799 --> 00:16:28.019
I don't think that's bad at all.

244
00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:38.460
No, no, no, but, but, um, subordinate JemHadar has his face kind of like ride up against the bit where they've done the cutout.

245
00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:42.360
So here is poor Phil Morris's mask falling apart.

246
00:16:42.419 --> 00:16:44.580
Look at this top lip. falling off.

247
00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:45.600
Oh, yeah.

248
00:16:45.600 --> 00:17:01.019
The fact that he managed to deliver this nuanced performance through this melting latex. is extraordinary, you know. when this opened and they were in the sunshine.

249
00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:03.899
I was like, oh, Nathan's going to have such a hard on watching this.

250
00:17:06.059 --> 00:17:08.759
Do you know, I love the chess bits.

251
00:17:08.819 --> 00:17:10.319
They didn't have to do that.

252
00:17:10.380 --> 00:17:12.359
The costume could just be cut off at the neck.

253
00:17:12.420 --> 00:17:22.559
Well, in fact, Phil Morris's costume's cut off of the neck, but the other one, the exposition Jem'Hadar is has got, you know, like a plunging neckline.

254
00:17:22.619 --> 00:17:34.440
I, again, I like how the exposition is done here and how we introduce the idea that the vorta doesn't give a shit about them and is actually bad at making decisions and has got them stuck here.

255
00:17:34.500 --> 00:17:40.559
Yeah, this poor old Aaron doing dog paddle in this fucking latex.

256
00:17:40.619 --> 00:17:44.039
And then you get a shot in his back with the whole thing not falling over.

257
00:17:44.099 --> 00:17:48.000
Like, look at that shot of Garak with the sun behind him as well.

258
00:17:48.059 --> 00:17:52.200
We're just getting all all sorts of stuff we don't normally see in Star Trek.

259
00:17:52.259 --> 00:17:52.980
Yeah, that's exciting.

260
00:17:53.400 --> 00:17:57.480
It feels like they're in real jeopardy. the shit has hit the fan.

261
00:17:57.539 --> 00:18:03.599
I love this where the camera goes over the ridge for them pulling the things out of the water.

262
00:18:03.660 --> 00:18:05.640
Yeah, they've got a lot of shit with them.

263
00:18:05.700 --> 00:18:07.980
I did think, why are we packing all this crap?

264
00:18:08.039 --> 00:18:10.799
Like, what is it?

265
00:18:10.859 --> 00:18:12.480
It's all O'Brien's spare pants.

266
00:18:12.539 --> 00:18:13.079
That's why.

267
00:18:13.140 --> 00:18:18.599
No, I reckon it's like O'Brien's stereo or is whiskey or something.

268
00:18:18.660 --> 00:18:23.700
And then, so this is Jadzir on location for the only time.

269
00:18:23.759 --> 00:18:24.720
Is that right?

270
00:18:24.839 --> 00:18:25.740
So...

271
00:18:25.740 --> 00:18:27.059
That's not Terry Farrell.

272
00:18:27.119 --> 00:18:30.000
Okay, Terry Farrell has a condition.

273
00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:31.019
Look the shot?

274
00:18:31.079 --> 00:18:31.619
The shot?

275
00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:34.799
The one where the ship actually sinks into the sea.

276
00:18:34.859 --> 00:18:37.559
Oh, that's great, isn't it?

277
00:18:37.619 --> 00:18:39.720
Well, the sea's not there and the ship's not there.

278
00:18:39.779 --> 00:18:41.519
And they've just added to that location.

279
00:18:41.579 --> 00:18:42.240
Brilliant.

280
00:18:42.299 --> 00:18:45.660
I remember it really vividly from all this time ago.

281
00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:46.740
This is brilliant too.

282
00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:53.819
You know how I said in AR558, part of the fun, part of the problem with it was there was no gallows humour.

283
00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:59.279
There was no kind of, there was no, nothing that had developed as a joke.

284
00:18:59.339 --> 00:19:05.279
And this thing here, the Tomay pants line isn't the thing that I like the most. reaction.

285
00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:06.779
I'm in real...

286
00:19:06.839 --> 00:19:08.940
I guess I'm really in trouble now, eh?

287
00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:13.019
I just love seeing Avery Brooks laughing his head off.

288
00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:14.579
His laugh is infectious.

289
00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:19.740
And then we cut back to the just the very last moment of the ship going under the water.

290
00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:20.220
Okay.

291
00:19:20.279 --> 00:19:23.880
So this story plays out in 6 scenes, I think.

292
00:19:23.940 --> 00:19:30.059
So this is scene one and scene 5 parallels it completely.

293
00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:32.759
So she gets the same shot, isn't it?

294
00:19:32.819 --> 00:19:34.200
Her looking in the mirror, her going to her.

295
00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:36.119
So looking in the mirror, she's smiling.

296
00:19:36.180 --> 00:19:37.920
Look at she's smiling.

297
00:19:37.980 --> 00:19:39.660
She's getting into work.

298
00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:41.759
She says, hey, Clem to that guy.

299
00:19:41.819 --> 00:19:42.779
Do you know what I mean?

300
00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:44.279
Like I climb or whatever.

301
00:19:44.339 --> 00:19:44.940
I don't know.

302
00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:47.160
Clem the Gemitar.

303
00:19:47.220 --> 00:19:49.440
Yeah. whatever, you know, like...

304
00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:51.420
Oh, no, it's it's it's Mavic.

305
00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:52.259
It's a space name.

306
00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:53.339
Yeah, yeah.

307
00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:57.720
Mavic space name who gives her the coffee at, um, you know, an ops.

308
00:19:57.779 --> 00:20:02.160
And so she's completely gone native.

309
00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:04.500
And this is Deep Space 9, right?

310
00:20:04.559 --> 00:20:06.420
So this is the show now.

311
00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:11.880
You know, all of our guys have been thrown off Deep Space 9 and they're off doing an adventure somewhere else.

312
00:20:11.940 --> 00:20:12.779
She's the only one left.

313
00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:15.720
Her and Odo doing deep space name, there's Mayveck.

314
00:20:15.779 --> 00:20:25.019
And, like, she, she, she does, like, she raises her eyebrows when she gets in the lift and greets them as if they're just her work colleagues.

315
00:20:25.019 --> 00:20:31.019
And, you know, this has just become her day-to-day now. working with the Kardashians and the Jemadar.

316
00:20:31.079 --> 00:20:39.420
And that's what's so skilful about this is hearing her wake up to an alarm, seeing her get ready, seeing her go go to ops.

317
00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:41.940
Like that means that that's what she's doing every day.

318
00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:43.559
And I think that's well done.

319
00:20:43.619 --> 00:20:45.779
And it doesn't need any dialogue about that.

320
00:20:46.259 --> 00:20:51.660
No, and in fact, it doesn't feel the need to explain to us, does it?

321
00:20:51.720 --> 00:20:55.980
We just get the 2 mirrored scenes and we're left to figure it out for ourselves.

322
00:20:56.039 --> 00:20:57.359
I feel like Rick Bermer's left the bit.

323
00:20:57.420 --> 00:20:58.319
Remember we watched Remember Me?

324
00:20:58.740 --> 00:21:10.140
Because scene 6 is us explaining the whole thing, which is the scene that I don't like very much because I was feeling a bit good about them crediting me with some intelligence.

325
00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:17.160
I think I think what we needed was for her to say, I'm going to start the resistance against that to kick into the next episode.

326
00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:23.400
Star Trek scene where she says, I'm going to start the resistance.

327
00:21:23.460 --> 00:21:24.539
Do you know what I mean?

328
00:21:24.599 --> 00:21:28.380
There's no subtext, there's no kind of room for interpretation.

329
00:21:28.440 --> 00:21:31.680
Just to very quickly go back to Terry Farrell.

330
00:21:31.740 --> 00:21:34.740
She's got a condition where she can't be out in sunlight too long.

331
00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:36.839
It really affects her skin.

332
00:21:36.900 --> 00:21:41.400
So she had to be written out of this episode and put into the cave scenes.

333
00:21:41.460 --> 00:21:48.240
So Neely, who's the female who gets all the dialogue on location, I think that was supposed to be that.

334
00:21:48.299 --> 00:21:49.019
Yeah.

335
00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:51.900
So we have 2 red shirts here, don't we?

336
00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:56.160
We've got Neely and Gordon and...

337
00:21:56.220 --> 00:21:57.720
Gordon is cute.

338
00:21:57.779 --> 00:22:01.380
And we're gonna, we're gonna cut back.

339
00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:06.180
So we're in cave set one here and elsewhere.

340
00:22:06.180 --> 00:22:14.579
No, elsewhere in cave set one or like when they move these guys out. where all our federation guys are.

341
00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:16.980
So we're all in caves, which is all a little bit teedy.

342
00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:20.759
Kivan is lying on the same rock as Jazia Daxley.

343
00:22:20.819 --> 00:22:22.079
Yeah, that's true.

344
00:22:22.140 --> 00:22:24.420
I do love this sort of physical...

345
00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:25.319
Who's got his shirt off?

346
00:22:25.380 --> 00:22:26.400
Who's got his shirt off there?

347
00:22:26.460 --> 00:22:27.240
Is that Julian?

348
00:22:27.299 --> 00:22:28.680
Look at that.

349
00:22:28.740 --> 00:22:29.640
Oh, yeah.

350
00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:30.599
Yeah, I think it's Julian.

351
00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:33.000
He got his shirt off and has his...

352
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:34.319
Step into the light, Julian.

353
00:22:34.380 --> 00:22:35.940
Yeah, woo hoo.

354
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:36.960
I can barely see you.

355
00:22:37.019 --> 00:22:37.740
Look at him.

356
00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:43.140
Again, though, I do like, do you like, I like the smoking clothes on the rock that's been phased.

357
00:22:43.259 --> 00:22:45.240
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

358
00:22:45.299 --> 00:22:46.920
It's detail, you know?

359
00:22:46.980 --> 00:22:47.339
Yeah.

360
00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:56.579
I really like these new outfits as well because they have lots of layers and stuff and because they can be worn in sort of various dishevelled ways.

361
00:22:56.640 --> 00:23:04.920
And so, you know, when they're out in the dirt and they've been in these, you know, outfits for a while, they look a bit the worse for wear.

362
00:23:04.980 --> 00:23:09.599
They're not like the Voyager ones, which are just pure black and then, you know, yeah, here we go.

363
00:23:09.660 --> 00:23:10.440
It's so weird.

364
00:23:10.500 --> 00:23:13.500
It looks like Julia's just wearing an everyday t-shirt there, doesn't it?

365
00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:15.059
Yeah, it's scrubs, isn't it?

366
00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:17.640
He's like wearing his medical scrubs or something.

367
00:23:17.700 --> 00:23:20.279
Nathan, I loved all this about the hotel gift shop.

368
00:23:20.700 --> 00:23:22.799
I want to make a complaint.

369
00:23:22.859 --> 00:23:24.839
This bed's as hard as a rock.

370
00:23:24.900 --> 00:23:26.039
You know?

371
00:23:27.180 --> 00:23:32.220
No, I just want you to imagine this as written by the Voyager writers, now, okay?

372
00:23:32.279 --> 00:23:33.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

373
00:23:33.539 --> 00:23:38.880
Yeah, like it's not hugely hilarious, but it's sort of sweet and it's them keeping their spirits up.

374
00:23:38.940 --> 00:23:39.720
Yeah, exactly.

375
00:23:39.779 --> 00:23:41.460
Oh, here we go.

376
00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:42.480
Nor can Garak.

377
00:23:42.539 --> 00:23:43.859
Yeah.

378
00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:49.200
The 2 most latex people in the cast, having to spend all of this time outside.

379
00:23:49.259 --> 00:23:52.619
That's okay, man, you know, I'll have experience this myself.

380
00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:56.519
He goes, you're deliberately standing in behind me and I want to know why.

381
00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:03.359
Oh, do you know, Aaron Eisenberg.

382
00:24:03.420 --> 00:24:04.619
What a loss, man.

383
00:24:04.740 --> 00:24:06.119
He's such a charming actor.

384
00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:07.619
Yeah.

385
00:24:07.740 --> 00:24:18.420
And who would have ever suspected when Nog raided that place on the promenade in episode one that we'd ever... no lines in episode one, does he?

386
00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:21.960
I think it just goes, hurry up, come on, or something like that.

387
00:24:22.140 --> 00:24:23.039
Yeah, yeah, possibly.

388
00:24:23.099 --> 00:24:23.400
Yeah.

389
00:24:23.460 --> 00:24:28.140
But he's just a fully fledged character now, and we've gone on that whole journey with him.

390
00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:33.000
Plus had all those brilliant comedy subplots along the way.

391
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:34.799
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

392
00:24:34.859 --> 00:24:35.880
All the stuff with Jay.

393
00:24:35.940 --> 00:24:39.900
You cannot ask that woman to chew up and spit out your food so you can eat it, you know?

394
00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:41.579
So it's this, what is it?

395
00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:42.660
I'm not sure, but.

396
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:45.299
And then he looks around and says, now I'm sure.

397
00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:51.359
And it was just absolutely the line that I knew that he would say and that we would go out.

398
00:24:51.420 --> 00:24:52.859
I just think it's so funny.

399
00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:57.539
No, for that 1st class, 0 number C, X, 9, 3, 7.

400
00:24:58.920 --> 00:25:00.720
It's so good.

401
00:25:00.779 --> 00:25:07.140
And then, of course, Garak tries to do his spiel about some dreadful lie as stone they are.

402
00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:07.740
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

403
00:25:07.740 --> 00:25:10.019
And then keeping us right through it with the badge.

404
00:25:10.140 --> 00:25:17.160
But and then he says, I just sort of hoped you weren't going to mention that because I'm not even going to attempt to make up a story to justify that.

405
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:21.000
And Keeva's always thinking, isn't he?

406
00:25:21.059 --> 00:25:23.160
How am I going to get out of this?

407
00:25:23.220 --> 00:25:25.920
He's so great, isn't he?

408
00:25:25.980 --> 00:25:27.480
Because he's physically weak.

409
00:25:27.539 --> 00:25:30.299
He's pathetic, you know, because he's been injured.

410
00:25:30.359 --> 00:25:45.660
He's just lying there. and he's pale and cowardly and you know, all of that stuff and he's surrounded by these man, you know, whom he's in charge of, but he's absolutely not fit physically to be in charge of them.

411
00:25:45.720 --> 00:25:48.119
I think it's a good choice. you know.

412
00:25:51.180 --> 00:25:53.700
Don't be too hard on it, young man.

413
00:25:53.759 --> 00:25:55.559
It's just saved your life.

414
00:25:55.619 --> 00:26:11.400
Like, is there a doctor in your unit and you see Garak trying to decide what to do, and then he says yes, almost without kind of moving his lips to form the word because he's so tentative about it, and it turns out it was the right call.

415
00:26:11.460 --> 00:26:12.539
It's really brilliant.

416
00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:15.299
Again, just a terrific performance.

417
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:22.799
I know the line, he gets later where he goes, I'm sure you've got one of your Starfleet engineers that can turn rocks into replicators.

418
00:26:25.859 --> 00:26:30.119
There's almost a little bit of lower decks taking a piss going on there, you know.

419
00:26:30.180 --> 00:26:30.720
Yeah.

420
00:26:30.779 --> 00:26:33.900
But look, look, there's some...

421
00:26:34.619 --> 00:26:34.980
Yeah.

422
00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:43.200
So Phil Morris is now here interacting with the vorta, and someone's fixed his makeup, so he's he's a little...

423
00:26:43.259 --> 00:26:46.440
Yeah, they were fans, you know, all over them.

424
00:26:46.500 --> 00:26:46.980
Yeah, exactly.

425
00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:52.680
I think it was a really savvy bit of design to sew the tube with the drug going into them all the time.

426
00:26:52.740 --> 00:26:54.359
You never forget it, yeah.

427
00:26:54.420 --> 00:26:55.740
Yeah, yeah.

428
00:26:55.799 --> 00:26:57.119
Oh, my words.

429
00:26:57.180 --> 00:26:58.319
What is this scene all about?

430
00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:02.099
Jake Cisco reporting from Starfleet news.

431
00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:05.519
No, because it's the challenge.

432
00:27:05.579 --> 00:27:08.700
He's the one who challenges her.

433
00:27:08.759 --> 00:27:15.059
And so we see her pushing back against what are really reasonable questions.

434
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:19.259
And the great thing is at the end of it, Jake goes, wrong question, Jake.

435
00:27:19.319 --> 00:27:29.579
And you kind of go, no, no, no, those were all the right questions, and her reaction to it tells you something about how she's, doesn't what I think about what she's doing.

436
00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:31.440
That's right, except it.

437
00:27:31.500 --> 00:27:33.299
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

438
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:49.859
So the things are 400 water are going to land on Bajor to help, which is obviously, you know, just the start, a group of facilitators, which she seems to buy. facilitators, yeah.

439
00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:58.440
Look how how Jake, how Syric has turned into a handsome young man over the last few years from being that tiny little boy.

440
00:27:59.460 --> 00:28:01.500
Oh, I always forget.

441
00:28:01.559 --> 00:28:02.579
Nana, Nana?

442
00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:03.059
No, no.

443
00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:05.339
No, no, let's say no, no.

444
00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:07.559
Just how she plays all of these scenes.

445
00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:08.339
Yeah.

446
00:28:08.339 --> 00:28:11.099
Like she was out of the action a bit last year, pregnant.

447
00:28:11.160 --> 00:28:14.880
So now she's like, I'm back, baby, and I'm taking this show again, you know?

448
00:28:14.940 --> 00:28:15.960
Yeah.

449
00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:23.759
Yeah, so and so we get this both from both of them, which is that we can't do anything about this.

450
00:28:23.819 --> 00:28:27.839
The Dominion are too strong and we are not in any position to do anything.

451
00:28:27.900 --> 00:28:29.759
So we just have to go along with them.

452
00:28:29.819 --> 00:28:40.500
And then that reaction, her reaction to the fact that there's a demonstration, you know, a Vedex giving a demonstration, her immediate reaction is so not her.

453
00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:44.220
And you can tell how this story is going to go, I think.

454
00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:53.640
I think, you know, again, I've seen this before, and I remember the death, but I may not have known which episode it's in.

455
00:28:53.700 --> 00:28:58.019
And I definitely remember, you know, the ship sinking and staff.

456
00:28:58.079 --> 00:29:08.099
But the moment that I, I heard her, because the next scene is her with Vetty Gasim, isn't it, talking about the demonstration and she's trying to persuade her not to do it.

457
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:15.000
And I knew that she was going to kill herself, you know, I love how that was going to go.

458
00:29:15.059 --> 00:29:16.440
Oh, to the point.

459
00:29:16.500 --> 00:29:17.279
Yeah.

460
00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:20.819
The Dominion is evil and evil must be a poem.

461
00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:27.240
Yeah, and she's got complex reasons why she shouldn't oppose them and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

462
00:29:27.299 --> 00:29:31.079
But it turns out that, yes, is right, you know, about evil.

463
00:29:31.140 --> 00:29:38.880
Well, I mean, I think the entire station-based plot for out those 6 episodes is always riveting to watch.

464
00:29:38.940 --> 00:29:42.839
They do such, they don't waste the opportunity of having the Dominion on the station.

465
00:29:42.900 --> 00:29:44.339
And you have that.

466
00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:45.539
Is that the 1st we've seen of it?

467
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:46.920
Like, it doesn't happen.

468
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:47.279
No.

469
00:29:47.339 --> 00:29:48.779
So they don't do it in episode one.

470
00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:50.460
No, they do.

471
00:29:50.519 --> 00:29:50.819
They do.

472
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:51.900
No, they do in episode one.

473
00:29:51.960 --> 00:30:00.180
You've got that brilliant scene in episode one where Ducat says to Kira, I could make things very comfortable for you here, Kira.

474
00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:04.559
And she goes, you could start by doing something about your breath. your breath.

475
00:30:05.339 --> 00:30:14.339
It's also got that amazing scene where Quark says, you know, can you hear the deaths of people on the promenade like you did during the year?

476
00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:17.519
He goes, this as occupations go, this isn't so bad.

477
00:30:17.579 --> 00:30:18.779
Yeah, yeah.

478
00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:22.799
So they really sort of lean into it and do interesting things with it.

479
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:34.380
Yeah, look at look at Ivery with his kind of that red thing down, you know, like they, they, he looks as hot as he did.

480
00:30:34.440 --> 00:30:35.819
What was that show we did before this?

481
00:30:35.940 --> 00:30:38.880
that began with a B, the police show.

482
00:30:38.940 --> 00:30:40.319
Booker?

483
00:30:40.380 --> 00:30:41.220
Brooker, something like that.

484
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:41.880
Oh okay.

485
00:30:41.940 --> 00:30:45.720
But I've seen steals of him with a gun looking as hot as that, you know.

486
00:30:45.779 --> 00:30:47.940
Finally, they're letting him do what he can do.

487
00:30:48.839 --> 00:30:51.000
And then this, okay.

488
00:30:51.059 --> 00:30:57.420
Okay, so I complained too, in Battle of, in Battle of, what is it, C.

489
00:30:57.420 --> 00:30:58.019
Gervade?

490
00:30:58.559 --> 00:31:28.859
558 558 Yeah, that, that, the, the, the, the, the firefights were really weightless, like, um, and those, I, I still maintain that those federation rifles look shit, because they look like they don't weigh anything, and so they, they don't really land, but there's a practical explosion every time one of those federation weapons hits the ground, and I think that that sells it a little bit better.

491
00:31:28.920 --> 00:31:35.400
It's a bit less of a kind of crappy video game because it has effects on the real environment that they're in.

492
00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:38.519
I mean, I maintain the AR 558.

493
00:31:38.700 --> 00:31:41.099
That's all at the end of that is one of my favourites.

494
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:43.200
I think they do that brilliantly within the studio.

495
00:31:43.259 --> 00:31:48.180
But here you've got the space and you can just genuinely blow the crap out of this war.

496
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:51.359
So there's lots of physical effects and debris flying.

497
00:31:51.420 --> 00:31:54.240
And there's lots of places to hide as well, you know?

498
00:31:54.299 --> 00:32:04.140
But I also think the fact that the Jemhadara people in this makes it more interesting.

499
00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:05.279
Oh, definitely.

500
00:32:05.279 --> 00:32:08.039
Yeah, because they're not people in AR 558.

501
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:10.619
Well, I do think that's a... deliberate from them.

502
00:32:10.680 --> 00:32:14.880
Yeah, we're just seeing our side of the lines and happy no suffering.

503
00:32:14.940 --> 00:32:23.099
I think it's a slightly cowardly choice though, because they never feel like shooting these people is wrong.

504
00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:25.200
They never, yeah, we just have to shoot them.

505
00:32:25.259 --> 00:32:28.559
DS9 does so well as well, which is show both sides.

506
00:32:28.680 --> 00:32:31.740
That's what they did in those last 2 years, which show the enemy side as well.

507
00:32:31.799 --> 00:32:46.859
I love this scene too. where the 3rd stands up to Keevan and refuses to allow Keevan to punish the man who lost his shit and started firing because he was withdrawing from white.

508
00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:50.819
And he just stands up to it, says, no, I will deal with them.

509
00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:52.799
You don't discipline the man.

510
00:32:52.859 --> 00:33:00.420
And, and it's, that's the same attitude, that that is the order of things, attitude that sees him obeying Keevan.

511
00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:09.420
You know, he, if he obeys Kivan, then this rule applies as well, the order of things, you know, indoctrination to the...

512
00:33:10.380 --> 00:33:17.759
Because real proper violence, I think, is done to the Jem Hadar in the way that they're created, don't you think?

513
00:33:17.819 --> 00:33:19.559
And that's part of the thing.

514
00:33:19.619 --> 00:33:27.660
Like the drug addicted soldiers in Vietnam and stuff like that, American soldiers who are addicted to drugs so that they keep performing.

515
00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:32.940
You know, the thing, they kind of do it in that 2nd episode of Battlestar Galactica where everyone's on speed, you know?

516
00:33:34.259 --> 00:33:37.440
And this scene too.

517
00:33:37.500 --> 00:33:41.400
Now, so this is scene three, isn't it, of the Kira plot?

518
00:33:41.460 --> 00:33:48.000
And she's just sitting there upright, completely upright, you know, just Look at her.

519
00:33:48.059 --> 00:33:48.960
Look at how she's doing.

520
00:33:49.019 --> 00:33:54.359
I think she thinks that she's going to get through to Yasm and Yasm's just gone all over from her body language.

521
00:33:54.420 --> 00:33:55.680
Yep, yep.

522
00:33:55.740 --> 00:33:57.599
I'm not going to achieve anything.

523
00:33:57.720 --> 00:33:59.220
Here again, she's fine.

524
00:33:59.279 --> 00:34:01.619
Oh, you just don't understand to use it.

525
00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:03.539
And she's like, no, you don't understand.

526
00:34:03.599 --> 00:34:04.500
Yeah, yeah.

527
00:34:04.920 --> 00:34:11.280
And it just that it takes such an act of violence to get through to her.

528
00:34:11.340 --> 00:34:14.639
Oh, it's unbelievable.

529
00:34:14.699 --> 00:34:15.960
It's good, isn't it?

530
00:34:16.019 --> 00:34:25.980
I also think too, I like the way that the Vedex provide a moral justification for resistance.

531
00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:30.119
You know, Louise Fletcher is sort of curiously absent from this bit.

532
00:34:30.179 --> 00:34:32.219
But we have a Vedic.

533
00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:51.480
And because she, she's old and the reason she's old is we want her to have lived through the Dominion kind of thing and and she has had the role of inspiring the Bajorans to resist the Cardassians, presumably during the occupation, Vedec, you just don't understand.

534
00:34:51.539 --> 00:34:53.519
It's so good.

535
00:34:53.579 --> 00:34:55.619
Yeah, yeah, I don't.

536
00:34:55.679 --> 00:34:59.219
You remember I said earlier about them learning from...

537
00:34:59.219 --> 00:35:04.019
But this, maybe tomorrow we will both understand that's when I knew she would kill herself.

538
00:35:04.739 --> 00:35:07.380
I never thought that was going to happen.

539
00:35:07.380 --> 00:35:08.579
Yeah.

540
00:35:08.639 --> 00:35:15.659
I didn't I didn't think Star Trek was brave enough to show someone hanging themselves, even though we don't explicitly see it.

541
00:35:15.719 --> 00:35:17.280
With Kira.

542
00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:25.320
With, uh, so they've spent maybe 3 years at the beginning of the show with her pushing against collaboration.

543
00:35:25.380 --> 00:35:32.340
There are whole episodes where there are collaborators in them where she's sort of angry and and so we know her position.

544
00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:34.559
And then what they do in the latter half of the shows.

545
00:35:34.619 --> 00:35:36.239
They keep pushing her into positions.

546
00:35:36.300 --> 00:35:44.219
So they do it here with the Dominion on the station and they do it in the last 10 episodes where she has to go off and help the Cardassians defeat the Dominion.

547
00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:52.860
Well, even progress puts her in the position of, you know, like taking poor old Mullerbok off his farm or whatever.

548
00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:58.320
You know, that puts her in the position of an authority figure who has to do these things.

549
00:35:58.380 --> 00:36:04.380
See, only time I'm going to do this comparison, but they just don't have that complexity in TNG with the characters.

550
00:36:04.440 --> 00:36:05.219
Oh, no.

551
00:36:05.219 --> 00:36:07.500
It's just not any of that substance there.

552
00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:08.340
No.

553
00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:10.199
Because they're just their jobs, you know.

554
00:36:10.260 --> 00:36:12.539
So how did this slip through the cracks then?

555
00:36:12.599 --> 00:36:14.039
Yeah, yeah.

556
00:36:14.340 --> 00:36:16.199
I'm glad it did.

557
00:36:16.260 --> 00:36:19.019
See, I love this scene as well.

558
00:36:19.079 --> 00:36:29.039
There's that, the great thing with, why should I substitute, you know, give you 2 high ranking princes, in exchange, you just know, you shouldn't.

559
00:36:29.099 --> 00:36:32.159
He says you're a terrible negotiator, which is so good.

560
00:36:32.219 --> 00:36:34.500
I wasn't sent to negotiate.

561
00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:36.179
I was only sent to deliver the instructor.

562
00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:38.039
Well, I want to speak to someone who can negotiate then.

563
00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:38.639
Yeah.

564
00:36:38.699 --> 00:36:41.219
It's so good, is it?

565
00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:44.400
The relationship that he builds, the Cisco builds with the third.

566
00:36:44.460 --> 00:36:45.960
That's really great as well.

567
00:36:46.019 --> 00:36:50.340
Because I think there is, there's far more respect there than there is between him and Keyvan.

568
00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:52.199
Do we see it elsewhere?

569
00:36:52.260 --> 00:36:53.820
I mean, I think we see...

570
00:36:53.820 --> 00:36:57.960
So there's a young Jem'Hadar comes on the station.

571
00:36:58.019 --> 00:36:59.820
What about the 1st Jem Hadar?

572
00:36:59.880 --> 00:37:03.300
We say Vorta and a Jem'Hadar?

573
00:37:03.539 --> 00:37:10.860
No, what's the one, what's the one where we try and create a substitute for white or something like that?

574
00:37:10.920 --> 00:37:14.280
Oh, that's Bashir and O'Brien on the planet?

575
00:37:14.340 --> 00:37:15.539
Yeah, she had a crotic oath.

576
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:15.960
Right.

577
00:37:16.019 --> 00:37:20.099
So we've seen, yeah, we've definitely seen sympathetic Jem'adar before.

578
00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:22.980
And the kid, the Odo's trying to raise...

579
00:37:23.039 --> 00:37:25.679
But we've we've never seen sympathetic vorta.

580
00:37:25.739 --> 00:37:30.840
You know, they're always sort of comedy villains, like camp comedy villains, I think.

581
00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:34.380
And this, what's this story he's telling?

582
00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:38.579
So he's telling about a previous episode where the Jemadar killed the Vorta.

583
00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:48.719
Oh, that was the one with the Iconian Gateway, that fabulous episode where they basically the Dominion blows up a pylon on DS9.

584
00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:50.880
So then the fire goes after them.

585
00:37:50.940 --> 00:37:55.679
They've been they've been trying to get scientific equipment so they can find the Iconian gateway.

586
00:37:55.739 --> 00:37:57.659
So they're going hot pursuit.

587
00:37:57.719 --> 00:38:01.619
It's a rogue Jemhadar section that they're going after.

588
00:38:01.619 --> 00:38:05.340
And what is the 1st episode where Jeffrey Coombes is back.

589
00:38:05.340 --> 00:38:10.260
Well, no, the 1st episode of Jeffrey Coombes is eating with the Jemadar.

590
00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:13.679
He develops a good relationship and at the end, he kills Wyun.

591
00:38:13.739 --> 00:38:15.599
That's that's the...

592
00:38:15.659 --> 00:38:17.159
So he's talking about Wayoon.

593
00:38:17.219 --> 00:38:17.579
Yeah.

594
00:38:17.639 --> 00:38:19.019
How's the water here?

595
00:38:19.380 --> 00:38:21.119
7 or something.

596
00:38:21.179 --> 00:38:26.280
That's got some amazing battle scenes with those knives slicing through people's faces.

597
00:38:26.340 --> 00:38:27.059
Wow.

598
00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:30.179
But so, so again.

599
00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:44.039
So this violence has been done to the Jemhadar and the Jemhadar honourable man, and because they're honest and they can be trusted, I think, isn't it?

600
00:38:44.099 --> 00:38:48.480
Like, it, it, it, they could be trusted. within the structure of what they're...

601
00:38:48.539 --> 00:38:49.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah. right.

602
00:38:49.500 --> 00:39:02.460
So here, because like Cisco agrees to go and see Kivan, because he's been assured by the 3rd that he'll be allowed to leave, that he and Julian will be allowed to leave.

603
00:39:02.579 --> 00:39:13.980
I think too, there's this kind of soldier's thing as well because we understand, you know, what a soldier is and that there's some honour in being a soldier or something.

604
00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:17.219
But I do just think there's an honesty and plain dealing and stuff.

605
00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:44.280
And so, so the Jem'Hadar have been, have been harmed by being created by being addicted to a drug by being genetically, you know, kind of engineered to obey the vorta, to regard the vorta as gods or the founders as gods, like, um, and, and the vorta hate them in return, the vorta just are completely um, contemptuous of them.

606
00:39:44.340 --> 00:39:47.880
And it's wonderful when they're all working together and they go, hey, J.

607
00:39:47.940 --> 00:39:49.199
Blake 7 effect, isn't it?

608
00:39:49.260 --> 00:39:51.360
You know, you can have great catty dialogue.

609
00:39:51.420 --> 00:39:54.239
Do you remember I said to you there was a Star Trek podcast?

610
00:39:54.300 --> 00:39:59.579
Oh, hang on very quickly. this shot here of them walking across the water.

611
00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:03.179
Talk about what you don't normally see in Shrek.

612
00:40:03.239 --> 00:40:04.019
That a lovely show.

613
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:04.500
Yeah.

614
00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:06.000
It's very stylish.

615
00:40:06.059 --> 00:40:11.219
There's a Star Trek podcast where it's 2 veterans talking about Star and I told you, I think, before.

616
00:40:11.280 --> 00:40:16.500
It's only a paper moon is one of their favourite episodes because it deals with PTSD, something they've dealt with.

617
00:40:16.559 --> 00:40:21.599
And I remember them talking about rocks and shoals and I remember them talking about having to obey orders.

618
00:40:21.659 --> 00:40:25.860
I think this works on other levels if you have been in the tree.

619
00:40:26.219 --> 00:40:29.639
Yeah, because, I mean, that is an issue.

620
00:40:29.699 --> 00:40:31.739
Oh, he's saying four, I guess.

621
00:40:32.280 --> 00:40:34.619
Slow motion hanging.

622
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:38.159
Yeah, but it's it's done off camera.

623
00:40:38.219 --> 00:40:39.780
Like it's done tastefully, I think.

624
00:40:39.960 --> 00:40:44.820
I think I think Nenal's visitor's reaction is enough for me.

625
00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:46.500
Well, that's what properly sells it.

626
00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:46.800
Yeah.

627
00:40:46.860 --> 00:40:49.079
Again, it's slow motion, isn't it?

628
00:40:49.260 --> 00:40:50.760
Is it?

629
00:40:50.820 --> 00:40:52.800
Yeah, the hanging is.

630
00:40:52.860 --> 00:40:54.179
And then her coming forward.

631
00:40:54.239 --> 00:40:55.079
Watch.

632
00:40:55.139 --> 00:40:57.900
Yeah, we see the close-up.

633
00:40:57.960 --> 00:40:59.099
Look at her at the close-up.

634
00:40:59.159 --> 00:40:59.820
Yeah.

635
00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:04.500
I mean, I do think the hat folding is quite funny.

636
00:41:04.559 --> 00:41:07.079
Yeah, no, no, no, but I think the hat is good.

637
00:41:07.139 --> 00:41:07.860
Do you know what I mean?

638
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:19.800
Like I think the hat falling is actually quite a good thing because it reminds us of her role, you know, that she is in the right morally, that it's her job to support her people in opposing their oppressors.

639
00:41:19.860 --> 00:41:20.460
I think it's good.

640
00:41:20.519 --> 00:41:30.059
The trouble with Nanavista is that she's such a good actress when she's forced to play, you know, torturous moments, that they keep doing terrible things to her as a result.

641
00:41:30.119 --> 00:41:35.039
Yeah, it's same thing that happens to Michael. sadly.

642
00:41:35.099 --> 00:41:36.420
Oh, Brian as well, you know?

643
00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:38.880
They used to make a joke of it.

644
00:41:38.940 --> 00:41:41.880
Ira Bay goes, what's our torture O'Brien episode for this year?

645
00:41:41.940 --> 00:41:42.840
For the year.

646
00:41:42.900 --> 00:41:43.199
Yeah.

647
00:41:44.820 --> 00:41:48.659
Oh, look, all the Gemma, I want to see what the inside is.

648
00:41:48.659 --> 00:41:50.340
I love this line.

649
00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:51.900
And the Vorton knows it.

650
00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:52.980
It's so interesting.

651
00:41:53.039 --> 00:41:54.840
Like, it seems to be true.

652
00:41:54.900 --> 00:41:56.280
He's not just making a joke.

653
00:41:56.340 --> 00:42:00.000
They've never seen what the inside of a vorta looks like before.

654
00:42:00.059 --> 00:42:02.579
And I tend to believe him.

655
00:42:02.639 --> 00:42:03.960
It's it's interesting.

656
00:42:04.019 --> 00:42:06.000
Like, they don't do anything with it or develop it.

657
00:42:06.119 --> 00:42:09.599
It's just a bit of colour, but it's really good, isn't it?

658
00:42:09.719 --> 00:42:13.559
Now watch visitor's performance as we play out these scenes again.

659
00:42:13.619 --> 00:42:14.280
Yep.

660
00:42:14.280 --> 00:42:16.739
She just looks haunted.

661
00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:17.639
Yeah.

662
00:42:17.699 --> 00:42:21.420
And the bit where it's on her, the camera's sort of going around.

663
00:42:21.480 --> 00:42:26.460
She's looking around ops and she's suddenly aware, she's surrounded by Cardassians and Jemadar.

664
00:42:26.519 --> 00:42:28.079
I've been here too.

665
00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:29.099
Do you know what I mean?

666
00:42:29.159 --> 00:42:33.719
She's not engaging with the other people in the lift like she was before, and she looks tired.

667
00:42:33.780 --> 00:42:37.199
She still thinks Mayvag for the coffee because, you know, she's nice.

668
00:42:37.260 --> 00:42:37.800
She's nice.

669
00:42:37.860 --> 00:42:38.760
Yeah.

670
00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:41.579
I love how this is sharp.

671
00:42:41.699 --> 00:42:44.699
Yeah, slowly going around her.

672
00:42:44.760 --> 00:42:45.900
She's taken in.

673
00:42:45.960 --> 00:42:47.039
Oh my fucking god.

674
00:42:47.099 --> 00:42:49.199
I'm surrounded by Cardassians.

675
00:42:49.260 --> 00:42:57.659
And the interesting thing too that works really well is that she's pale and red and they're all gray.

676
00:42:57.719 --> 00:43:07.679
Both the gemhadar and the Kardassians and the set, which is Kardassian, all have the same colour palette and she's red, you know, like she sticks out.

677
00:43:07.739 --> 00:43:09.780
She's white and red.

678
00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:10.800
It's good.

679
00:43:10.860 --> 00:43:11.820
I think it's very good.

680
00:43:12.659 --> 00:43:14.579
How was the show?

681
00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:15.480
Informative.

682
00:43:15.539 --> 00:43:16.739
Yeah.

683
00:43:19.260 --> 00:43:30.000
That's so great I really love the theatre of The Vorcer just playing the Jemadar as well.

684
00:43:30.059 --> 00:43:35.760
So he's trying to convince for a couple of scenes that, you know, 0 yeah, they're going to get us all out of here.

685
00:43:35.820 --> 00:43:36.780
We're going to be all right.

686
00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:40.199
And he was literally walking them to their deaths.

687
00:43:40.260 --> 00:43:43.320
He is irredeemable, isn't he, this character?

688
00:43:43.380 --> 00:43:44.639
Oh no, he's awful.

689
00:43:44.699 --> 00:44:02.460
And one of the things is that, you know, I think that this is a worst thing that Cisco's forced to do in the war is kill these people.

690
00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:06.659
You know, he's forced to kill all these people.

691
00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:15.420
I think that's worse than killing Senator Renak and that asshole with the, you know, um, data chip thing.

692
00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:16.440
Do you know what I mean?

693
00:44:16.500 --> 00:44:18.539
They're going to this well, though, don't they?

694
00:44:18.599 --> 00:44:27.719
Yeah, but I think that this is worse because they're just sort of like one of them's an asshole and one of them's another asshole and like who cares?

695
00:44:27.780 --> 00:44:34.980
But these are good people, you know, who aren't to blame for the situation that they find themselves in.

696
00:44:34.980 --> 00:44:44.280
And they have been honest and honourable and he has to kill them to save this guy.

697
00:44:44.340 --> 00:44:55.380
You know, um, and, and like, in fact, the best thing about that final scene is the looks on the faces of all of the people who are about to shoot them all.

698
00:44:55.800 --> 00:45:00.000
I have got a great quote about that scene, but I'll say that.

699
00:45:00.059 --> 00:45:02.159
Garak, even Garak looks amazing.

700
00:45:02.219 --> 00:45:03.420
It's just so well done.

701
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:06.960
I like how he described and then, you know, once the whites run out.

702
00:45:07.019 --> 00:45:10.139
They'll turn into senseless, violent animals.

703
00:45:10.199 --> 00:45:11.519
And we've seen that.

704
00:45:11.579 --> 00:45:16.019
Do you remember that scene in the beginning of 3 when they attack and they're just screaming and killing.

705
00:45:16.139 --> 00:45:17.699
But whose fault is that?

706
00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:18.539
Do you know what I mean?

707
00:45:18.599 --> 00:45:19.800
That's not their fault.

708
00:45:19.860 --> 00:45:24.780
Like they've been engineered. and addicted, so they'll behave like that.

709
00:45:24.840 --> 00:45:29.940
Bad truth is, is the vorta is the more valuable prisoner of war as well.

710
00:45:30.059 --> 00:45:37.260
Yeah, but I kind of thought, you know, if someone had just bumped him with a rifle and he'd fallen off a cliff. you know what I mean?

711
00:45:37.320 --> 00:45:39.300
No, the ending it gets is perfect.

712
00:45:39.360 --> 00:45:41.039
Yeah, that's true.

713
00:45:41.099 --> 00:45:45.000
But, but, he's literally just walking into the wall.

714
00:45:45.059 --> 00:45:47.159
No, it's weekend at Bernie's.

715
00:45:47.219 --> 00:45:47.639
That's it.

716
00:45:47.699 --> 00:45:48.659
It's literally that.

717
00:45:48.840 --> 00:46:06.780
But it's that thing where they're forced to take this person on board and rescue him, you know, even though he's utterly worthless, like just an appalling, appalling person who's responsible for the deaths of 10 people and uses them in order to get it to happen.

718
00:46:06.840 --> 00:46:11.159
Do you think that was always planned to give him that dreadful ending?

719
00:46:11.219 --> 00:46:12.059
No.

720
00:46:12.119 --> 00:46:13.320
Oh, cro kid.

721
00:46:13.380 --> 00:46:15.239
I think they went, oh, God.

722
00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:17.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

723
00:46:17.519 --> 00:46:20.219
No, I just reckon, oh God, is Chris available?

724
00:46:20.280 --> 00:46:20.940
That would be great.

725
00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:24.059
Let's get him to do it because he's so good.

726
00:46:24.119 --> 00:46:27.480
Jeffrey Coombs is looking over his shoulder going, what's going on here?

727
00:46:27.539 --> 00:46:35.760
Yeah, so you said that you thought this was the best Vorta performance apart from Coombs.

728
00:46:36.420 --> 00:46:40.619
But Coombs does a lot more things and stuff.

729
00:46:40.679 --> 00:46:49.679
I think that this, like, he is so loathsome, Keyvan, like so fabulously loathsome and a bit aristocratic as well.

730
00:46:49.739 --> 00:46:55.440
You know what he walks through the dead bodies and sort of is vaguely interested in looking at them?

731
00:46:55.500 --> 00:46:57.960
You know, he's so repellent.

732
00:46:58.019 --> 00:46:59.579
He's really, really good.

733
00:46:59.639 --> 00:47:00.780
He does such a great job.

734
00:47:00.840 --> 00:47:05.760
That's why his last line is so great because you just want someone to shoot him.

735
00:47:05.820 --> 00:47:07.320
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

736
00:47:07.380 --> 00:47:08.579
Just by accident, you know?

737
00:47:08.639 --> 00:47:13.500
I really, I know they do this a lot in Shrek, sort of weighing up the moral dilemma.

738
00:47:13.559 --> 00:47:18.000
I just think the dialogue here is great because you've got so many opposing viewpoints.

739
00:47:18.059 --> 00:47:20.340
Someone's saying, oh, yeah, we just shoot them down.

740
00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:28.679
Someone's saying, well, we've got rules in war, Garak saying, no, no, no, you've got rules in war and they may winning the war a lot harder to achieve.

741
00:47:28.739 --> 00:47:37.559
But I just like, I like, um, doesn't CSCO just say, um, excuse me, you know, it's not a democracy.

742
00:47:37.619 --> 00:47:40.139
We're doing what I'm saying we're going to do.

743
00:47:40.199 --> 00:47:41.099
Do you know what I mean?

744
00:47:41.159 --> 00:47:44.699
And it's down to, when it comes to a choice between us and them, there isn't a choice.

745
00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:45.780
Yeah, that's right.

746
00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:46.500
That's it.

747
00:47:47.340 --> 00:47:50.579
Oh, here's your, here's your, here's your one troubling scene.

748
00:47:50.639 --> 00:47:50.940
Come on.

749
00:47:51.000 --> 00:47:53.760
You've been far too positive throughout this episode.

750
00:47:53.820 --> 00:48:00.360
Look, I think that, like, you know, it wasn't subtle.

751
00:48:00.420 --> 00:48:15.179
The rest of it wasn't particularly subtle, but it's so rare for Star Trek to give us an insight into what the character is feeling without just having them come out and say, this is how I'm feeling.

752
00:48:15.420 --> 00:48:19.260
You know, Star Trek doesn't really do subtext.

753
00:48:19.320 --> 00:48:21.119
And so here we just get a long scene.

754
00:48:21.179 --> 00:48:26.460
It's like where she just says how she's feeling and then he says how he's feeling.

755
00:48:26.519 --> 00:48:31.860
He comes his eye over the script and go, look, you can have all those scenes, but again, you've got to tell everyone what it's all about.

756
00:48:31.920 --> 00:48:32.699
Yeah.

757
00:48:32.699 --> 00:48:34.800
Yeah, I think it's a shame.

758
00:48:34.860 --> 00:48:35.880
I do think it's a shame.

759
00:48:35.940 --> 00:48:40.980
I think, you know, they think maybe we hear just for the spaceships and the stupid latex heads.

760
00:48:41.099 --> 00:48:42.900
I do like the line.

761
00:48:42.900 --> 00:48:44.280
I'm a collab race, Rodo, though.

762
00:48:44.340 --> 00:48:45.480
Yeah, yeah.

763
00:48:45.539 --> 00:48:46.139
Yeah.

764
00:48:46.199 --> 00:48:47.340
To have her say that.

765
00:48:47.400 --> 00:48:51.119
I mean, we did have a similar moment in Image of the Sand at the beginning of seven.

766
00:48:51.179 --> 00:48:51.659
Remember?

767
00:48:51.719 --> 00:48:52.800
Odo exposition.

768
00:48:52.860 --> 00:48:57.360
We were doing all this in this exact spot on the problem. right. right.

769
00:48:57.599 --> 00:49:00.119
Oh, I was very handy for that.

770
00:49:00.179 --> 00:49:02.880
But all of this, we've been here.

771
00:49:02.940 --> 00:49:04.139
Do you know what I mean?

772
00:49:04.199 --> 00:49:14.099
We've been here and it was done better before and I just think they should have had the confidence in the audience to just let it rest, I think.

773
00:49:14.159 --> 00:49:22.260
Because you remember when Odo cheats on Kira with the female Shape Shifter in a couple of episodes time, that fabulous plot in behind the lines?

774
00:49:22.320 --> 00:49:23.159
Yeah.

775
00:49:23.159 --> 00:49:29.639
And then the pair of them makeup or what, they don't even bother to show us. gone into a cupboard and everything's all right again.

776
00:49:29.699 --> 00:49:33.059
They trust us to, you know, we don't need 5 hours dialogue.

777
00:49:33.119 --> 00:49:33.840
No.

778
00:49:33.900 --> 00:49:43.739
And here I think there would have been a way of indicating that she intended to do something from now on without herself, like that.

779
00:49:43.800 --> 00:49:45.960
Look in a mirror and be nauseated by what I see.

780
00:49:46.019 --> 00:49:46.980
Like we saw that.

781
00:49:47.039 --> 00:49:48.119
Don't tell us that.

782
00:49:48.179 --> 00:49:48.900
We saw it.

783
00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:50.519
I just think it's a shame.

784
00:49:50.579 --> 00:49:57.360
She maybe could have just gone back to her quarters and did something in silence again that indicated the fire starts now.

785
00:49:57.420 --> 00:49:58.320
Exactly.

786
00:49:58.380 --> 00:49:59.219
Yeah.

787
00:49:59.280 --> 00:50:01.559
But when it does, it's amazing.

788
00:50:01.679 --> 00:50:02.639
Yeah.

789
00:50:02.699 --> 00:50:18.179
Do you not remember when it's her, Rom, and they're all sitting in quarks, and they've taken a pad that the vort has written up saying, oh, God, if we can't get any more white, we're just going to have to murder all the Jem'adar, and they've left it outside the head Jem'adar's quarters.

790
00:50:18.179 --> 00:50:22.500
And then he comes into quarks and a massive bar fight erupts.

791
00:50:22.559 --> 00:50:23.039
It's great.

792
00:50:24.119 --> 00:50:26.159
Here comes the ending.

793
00:50:26.219 --> 00:50:27.719
Yeah.

794
00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:29.340
Yeah.

795
00:50:29.460 --> 00:50:30.599
So good.

796
00:50:30.659 --> 00:50:33.119
I mean, and this is one thing I will say about doing this one.

797
00:50:33.179 --> 00:50:33.719
They do.

798
00:50:33.900 --> 00:50:36.360
They put a lot of people on the screen.

799
00:50:36.480 --> 00:50:39.900
So in Ops, there was a lot of Cardassians and Gemini.

800
00:50:39.960 --> 00:50:41.519
I don't know if they've done it later.

801
00:50:41.579 --> 00:50:42.360
A lot of work.

802
00:50:42.420 --> 00:50:42.719
Yeah.

803
00:50:42.780 --> 00:50:45.000
So maybe that's where they put some of their money.

804
00:50:45.059 --> 00:50:46.440
Oh yeah, for sure.

805
00:50:46.559 --> 00:50:48.539
That's great as well.

806
00:50:48.599 --> 00:50:50.579
The way it swung around, that whole quarry.

807
00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:52.139
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

808
00:50:52.199 --> 00:50:53.280
We don't cut to them.

809
00:50:53.340 --> 00:50:56.159
They're in the same place because they were in the same shot.

810
00:50:56.219 --> 00:51:01.500
We just move the camera around to them. a view of how they are... in the advance.

811
00:51:01.500 --> 00:51:02.400
Yeah, how they are in space.

812
00:51:02.460 --> 00:51:03.000
Exactly.

813
00:51:03.059 --> 00:51:03.900
Yeah.

814
00:51:03.960 --> 00:51:08.460
I think that's well done But it's also them together on the battlefield.

815
00:51:08.519 --> 00:51:13.199
Like the 2 sides are here together, so they get to be in the same shot because they won't otherwise.

816
00:51:13.260 --> 00:51:14.820
And I like this a lot.

817
00:51:14.880 --> 00:51:30.239
Like, I just like that that Cisco knows that he can walk down and speak to the 3rd and he will be fine because they are honourable men.

818
00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:37.320
I mean, it ducks it a little bit because this now puts the choice that they die in the 3rd hands.

819
00:51:37.320 --> 00:51:44.880
Because he basically says to him, let's band together and go and stop him and the 3rd goes... not what I've been told to do.

820
00:51:44.940 --> 00:51:47.159
Well, yeah, but yeah, yeah.

821
00:51:47.219 --> 00:51:48.300
Yeah.

822
00:51:48.360 --> 00:52:02.400
But the reason that that's not available to him, though, isn't because some sort of coherent ideology has been explained to him and he's adhered to it and now he's going to do the right thing.

823
00:52:02.460 --> 00:52:04.500
Like Kira, right?

824
00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:16.079
Kira has been persuaded by the Vedec to fight back against the dominion because she's she cares about her people and she's convinced that they're evil.

825
00:52:16.139 --> 00:52:23.699
Why does the 3rd behave this way because he's been addicted and genetically engineered to do it?

826
00:52:23.820 --> 00:52:25.320
He's been brainwashed.

827
00:52:25.380 --> 00:52:27.480
He's a soldier and he has to do what he's told.

828
00:52:27.539 --> 00:52:31.500
And so he has no agency, you know.

829
00:52:31.559 --> 00:52:39.780
And so, so he has to be given the opportunity to, for an alternative, I think.

830
00:52:39.840 --> 00:52:40.800
I think we need to see that.

831
00:52:40.860 --> 00:52:51.300
And that this, uh, indoctrinate, whatever you want to call it, this adherence to the structure of command and the abeyance of the orders is so strong.

832
00:52:51.360 --> 00:52:54.599
He will just walk his men to the deaths. to the deaths.

833
00:52:54.659 --> 00:52:56.039
That's shocking, isn't it?

834
00:52:56.099 --> 00:52:59.340
And I do think a bit of that has probably happened in the world.

835
00:52:59.400 --> 00:53:07.920
Well, yeah, no, I think that I think I think that that's an image of what gets done to soldiers, I think, you know.

836
00:53:09.239 --> 00:53:15.840
And, and, but, but it's not all fighters.

837
00:53:15.900 --> 00:53:16.679
Do you know what I mean?

838
00:53:16.739 --> 00:53:31.199
Like, like, Kira's going to fight now, but not because, not for the same reason that the 3rd is going to allow himself and his men to die. you know, so good.

839
00:53:31.260 --> 00:53:35.760
Just that he's been broken to accept this. get it slow motion, I think.

840
00:53:35.820 --> 00:53:39.539
He turns around just before he sends his men in and you just see his mind.

841
00:53:39.599 --> 00:53:43.139
And I think it's the shot of the most honourable man in the story.

842
00:53:43.199 --> 00:53:45.300
You know, it's just Catherine really well.

843
00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:47.699
Yeah, why do we read him as honourable?

844
00:53:47.760 --> 00:53:49.860
Why do we read him as honourable?

845
00:53:49.920 --> 00:53:52.079
You know, strange, isn't it?

846
00:53:52.139 --> 00:53:52.860
Yeah.

847
00:53:52.920 --> 00:53:55.739
Yeah, and I think that...

848
00:53:55.800 --> 00:53:58.320
You could read him as just being stupid. fucking idiot.

849
00:53:58.380 --> 00:53:58.980
That's right.

850
00:53:59.039 --> 00:53:59.760
You don't.

851
00:53:59.820 --> 00:54:02.099
Maybe that's the integrity of the performance.

852
00:54:02.159 --> 00:54:06.360
It's that too, but I think that there's just an honesty.

853
00:54:07.260 --> 00:54:12.360
I like the fact that O'Brien is there as well because he's a war veteran, isn't he?

854
00:54:12.420 --> 00:54:13.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

855
00:54:13.559 --> 00:54:16.980
And Garak's literally behind that rock with a look on his face going.

856
00:54:17.039 --> 00:54:17.699
I'm ready.

857
00:54:18.960 --> 00:54:21.000
That's so good.

858
00:54:21.059 --> 00:54:26.039
I actually thought it was a shame that they kill pretty gay boy there.

859
00:54:26.099 --> 00:54:26.699
What's his name?

860
00:54:26.760 --> 00:54:27.179
Gordon.

861
00:54:27.239 --> 00:54:28.860
I guess they wanted a loss.

862
00:54:28.860 --> 00:54:32.159
I had to kill someone. slow motion shot of them all dying.

863
00:54:32.280 --> 00:54:33.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

864
00:54:36.659 --> 00:54:39.539
That's that's just not your typical Star Trek.

865
00:54:39.599 --> 00:54:41.400
No, that is pretty great.

866
00:54:42.059 --> 00:54:45.239
Um, Nog looks absolutely disgusted.

867
00:54:45.300 --> 00:54:46.679
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

868
00:54:46.739 --> 00:54:49.559
That's nice to react the silent reaction shots.

869
00:54:49.619 --> 00:54:50.760
That's good drama, I think.

870
00:54:50.820 --> 00:54:52.559
Yeah, it's a thing that they had to do.

871
00:54:52.619 --> 00:55:01.920
Again, yes, rather than having a big conversation about how they felt about having to kill them, we just get, we trust the actors and the visuals to tell us and that happens so rarely.

872
00:55:01.980 --> 00:55:04.920
I'm wondering if Neely survived because that was supposed to be Dax.

873
00:55:04.980 --> 00:55:06.000
They just...

874
00:55:06.059 --> 00:55:17.940
I think there had originally been a plan to bury the Jem'Hadar and and Taberry Gordon as well, and we were going to see that.

875
00:55:18.059 --> 00:55:22.199
Yeah, this thing where he just walks onto the battlefield sort of vaguely interested.

876
00:55:22.260 --> 00:55:23.340
Do you know what I mean?

877
00:55:23.400 --> 00:55:24.360
He sort of looking at the dead.

878
00:55:24.360 --> 00:55:25.260
I don't think he does.

879
00:55:25.440 --> 00:55:27.420
He looks even remotely interested in it.

880
00:55:27.480 --> 00:55:28.980
Yeah, that's what I mean.

881
00:55:29.039 --> 00:55:31.559
He's just sort of like, uh, like whatever, a thing is happening.

882
00:55:31.619 --> 00:55:33.000
And he's so pathetic.

883
00:55:33.059 --> 00:55:42.539
Like he's physically, he's not imposing, you know, he's pale. you know, like he's kind of pathetic.

884
00:55:43.559 --> 00:55:45.599
And he's still... have a line, didn't he?

885
00:55:45.659 --> 00:55:48.719
You wouldn't have had a chance, you know.

886
00:55:48.780 --> 00:55:49.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

887
00:55:49.679 --> 00:55:50.219
That's right.

888
00:55:50.280 --> 00:55:53.280
And you talk very big for someone who was just lying on a fucking rock.

889
00:55:53.340 --> 00:55:54.480
Do you know what I mean?

890
00:55:54.539 --> 00:55:56.699
Like, you would have sent a whole bunch of other people.

891
00:55:56.760 --> 00:55:59.519
It's like my big brother could beat you up.

892
00:55:59.579 --> 00:56:09.119
You know, like it's, and just that sort of loose way he's holding his body as well, you know, like a child or something, like he's just pathetic.

893
00:56:09.179 --> 00:56:12.300
I do like the closing shot on...

894
00:56:12.300 --> 00:56:13.320
Cisco's disgust.

895
00:56:13.380 --> 00:56:20.039
Who, I've got to say, I kept meant to say it for out, but there was too many interesting things to say, looks hot as hell for this entire episode.

896
00:56:20.159 --> 00:56:21.599
You're living sweaty.

897
00:56:23.340 --> 00:56:25.199
Wow, that was good.

898
00:56:25.320 --> 00:56:25.920
Yeah.

899
00:56:25.980 --> 00:56:27.300
It's really properly good.

900
00:56:27.360 --> 00:56:28.260
Amazingly good.

901
00:56:28.320 --> 00:56:31.320
Ridiculously good for 90s trek.

902
00:56:31.380 --> 00:56:31.920
Yeah.

903
00:56:31.980 --> 00:56:43.800
But also, I never really thought that the 2 plots had anything much in common, but, you know, there is a kind of why we fight thing there, isn't there?

904
00:56:43.980 --> 00:56:46.920
And that sort of interesting, I guess.

905
00:56:46.980 --> 00:56:50.219
I think the Jem'Hadara just interesting in themselves.

906
00:56:50.280 --> 00:56:50.820
They're so good.

907
00:56:50.880 --> 00:56:54.480
And they get a lot of mileage out of them as well. throughout the run.

908
00:56:54.539 --> 00:57:04.260
You know how we said before about having arcs and trying to have standalone episodes within those arcs.

909
00:57:04.320 --> 00:57:09.599
I think these 6 get it far better than the last 10.

910
00:57:09.840 --> 00:57:15.539
What you said about the last 10 was, we're inching the plots along, all these different plots.

911
00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:19.079
So we've got maybe 2 scenes with everybody in every episode.

912
00:57:19.139 --> 00:57:21.119
And like Tom Solinski, who we love.

913
00:57:21.179 --> 00:57:24.780
He had a lot of trouble with that because nothing was moving very fast.

914
00:57:24.960 --> 00:57:32.159
I love it because if you watch it as a 10, It's a badly epic. soap opera.

915
00:57:32.219 --> 00:57:34.019
Overwrought soap opera, yeah.

916
00:57:34.079 --> 00:57:35.460
Don't get me wrong.

917
00:57:35.519 --> 00:57:36.420
This goes madly.

918
00:57:36.480 --> 00:57:39.179
I mean, you see how I was deaf in the sacrifice of angels, you know.

919
00:57:39.239 --> 00:57:40.500
Please hear me.

920
00:57:40.559 --> 00:57:42.179
I love you, miaow.

921
00:57:43.380 --> 00:57:45.360
I don't forget that.

922
00:57:45.420 --> 00:57:55.440
But I do think each of these 6 episodes are very strong standalones and very strong segments of this arc.

923
00:57:55.500 --> 00:57:58.559
And if you read the DS9 companion, which I have.

924
00:57:59.039 --> 00:58:02.159
It was torture for them to get this right.

925
00:58:02.219 --> 00:58:03.840
It was countless meetings.

926
00:58:03.960 --> 00:58:07.079
They were all sending each other emails going, well, are you doing this bit?

927
00:58:07.139 --> 00:58:09.360
What bit am I continuing on?

928
00:58:09.420 --> 00:58:10.980
Because this just wasn't Star Trek.

929
00:58:11.039 --> 00:58:11.760
They've never done this before.

930
00:58:11.820 --> 00:58:13.739
Yeah. to the fact that they got it.

931
00:58:13.800 --> 00:58:15.840
This right on their 1st try.

932
00:58:15.900 --> 00:58:17.400
Bravo.

933
00:58:17.460 --> 00:58:33.300
Well, I mean, compare it to many, many years later, the if memory serves episode of Discovery, we watched, which I don't think just doesn't come anywhere near getting that sort of serialisation right.

934
00:58:33.719 --> 00:58:38.159
And I think that the discovery does eventually nail that kind of serialisation.

935
00:58:38.219 --> 00:58:42.480
I think that series 4 of discovery does a magnificent job of it.

936
00:58:42.539 --> 00:58:58.440
I like serialisation, but we've now done 2 discovery episodes that were kind of not very good when it came to serialisation that were just inching the plot along without being an overwrought soap opera to kind of take our minds off that.

937
00:58:58.500 --> 00:59:02.159
Here, I think they just got it exactly right.

938
00:59:02.219 --> 00:59:05.820
There's 2 plots, both of them have a beginning, middle, and an end.

939
00:59:05.880 --> 00:59:13.440
Both of them are worthwhile and well told with interesting things happening to the characters and reversals and all sorts of stuff.

940
00:59:13.500 --> 00:59:15.960
It was just really very good.

941
00:59:16.019 --> 00:59:19.199
They both like, obviously, at the end of a time stand.

942
00:59:19.260 --> 00:59:21.239
They were stranded on that Jem'adar ship.

943
00:59:21.300 --> 00:59:25.739
So now we know how they get to the space station in the 3rd episode.

944
00:59:25.800 --> 00:59:31.980
Now we know why the resistance starts in the next episode, you know, it's really, really great stuff.

945
00:59:32.099 --> 00:59:33.480
Before we out this episode.

946
00:59:33.539 --> 00:59:45.300
Can I just say one final thing about the director, Mike Vajar, who is the standout director of 90s trek.

947
00:59:45.420 --> 00:59:48.960
He directed the Change of Face of Evil that we watched recently.

948
00:59:49.019 --> 00:59:53.940
He also does what you leave behind, Tears of the Prophets, Sacrifice of Angels.

949
00:59:53.940 --> 01:00:00.420
Like, I think they realise very, very quickly that this guy could deliver a really good episode.

950
01:00:01.199 --> 01:00:06.780
This might be the best episode he's directed, I think, visually.

951
01:00:06.840 --> 01:00:13.500
I'm only saying it because we don't often get to credit the directors of 90s Star Trek.

952
01:00:13.559 --> 01:00:16.500
Usually we just go, well, we're pointing and shooting again, you know?

953
01:00:16.559 --> 01:00:18.119
other lights on.

954
01:00:18.179 --> 01:00:19.019
Let's go.

955
01:00:19.079 --> 01:00:20.880
I think he's the aberration.

956
01:00:20.940 --> 01:00:39.059
He's the one that's trying to push the show into being, and I know cinematic's an easy word to use, but he's trying to push the boundaries of what 90s trek can look like that shot of the German Hathar ship vanishing under the water with them all in the forefront coming out of the water is a good example of that.

957
01:00:39.119 --> 01:00:44.219
So huge thumbs up to Mike Bajar, I cannot wait till we do another one of his.

958
01:00:51.119 --> 01:00:57.900
All right, it's the end of the episode and it is time for us to work out what we're going to watch next time.

959
01:00:57.960 --> 01:01:10.679
Rocks and Shoals was the result of a bout of excellent taste by Joe. And so it's my turn to address the balance.

960
01:01:10.679 --> 01:01:19.920
And so to that end, I'm going to choose from 290s track series that have something in common. in that they're both terrible.

961
01:01:19.980 --> 01:01:22.619
No, in that they're both.

962
01:01:22.619 --> 01:01:28.440
They're both set on a starship called Enterprise.

963
01:01:28.500 --> 01:01:34.320
So it's going to be Star Trek the Next Generation or Enterprise.

964
01:01:34.380 --> 01:01:35.219
Okay.

965
01:01:35.280 --> 01:01:38.699
Can I say I took us to Remember Me as well?

966
01:01:38.760 --> 01:01:40.559
You took us to collective.

967
01:01:40.619 --> 01:01:44.159
So my hit rate recently has been pretty strong. been better.

968
01:01:44.219 --> 01:01:50.400
Yeah, no, I've been choosing the duds and it's hard to imagine that I'm not going to continue my run with this choice.

969
01:01:50.460 --> 01:01:51.539
Who changed to Simon Earth?

970
01:01:51.599 --> 01:01:52.380
Was that you or me?

971
01:01:52.440 --> 01:01:53.880
Oh, I don't know.

972
01:01:53.940 --> 01:01:55.320
I think that was me.

973
01:01:55.619 --> 01:01:57.960
Yeah, you've been doing really well.

974
01:01:58.440 --> 01:02:04.380
Meanwhile, I've got interface from series 7.

975
01:02:04.380 --> 01:02:08.760
It's normally in a series 7 episode of Star Trek, The Next Generation.

976
01:02:08.820 --> 01:02:16.380
They discover an unknown family member, but here Geordie loses a family member to kind of redress the balance.

977
01:02:16.440 --> 01:02:21.000
What is it about that randomiser and series 7 of the next generation?

978
01:02:21.179 --> 01:02:23.579
We've chosen interface before.

979
01:02:23.639 --> 01:02:25.139
I mean, we've got interface before.

980
01:02:25.199 --> 01:02:28.139
I'll eventually chosen it, but not today.

981
01:02:28.199 --> 01:02:28.920
No.

982
01:02:28.980 --> 01:02:30.659
Oh, okay.

983
01:02:30.719 --> 01:02:32.219
I don't know about this.

984
01:02:32.280 --> 01:02:39.780
This is from season 3 of Enterprise. which is still an area that I'm keen to explore.

985
01:02:39.840 --> 01:02:42.000
This one's called Chosen Realm.

986
01:02:42.059 --> 01:02:43.019
It's episode 12.

987
01:02:44.400 --> 01:02:46.739
I don't remember.

988
01:02:47.099 --> 01:02:48.480
A single thing about that episode.

989
01:02:48.539 --> 01:02:49.980
That's probably not a good sign.

990
01:02:50.039 --> 01:02:55.559
Why can't you get one of those fabulous ones from towards the end of the season where they're really good?

991
01:02:56.099 --> 01:02:58.019
I, you know what?

992
01:02:58.079 --> 01:03:06.360
I'm going to suggest you push the button again, only because we have recently done series 3 of enterprise.

993
01:03:06.420 --> 01:03:07.380
Okay, all right.

994
01:03:07.440 --> 01:03:08.400
I'll press the button again.

995
01:03:09.539 --> 01:03:14.219
Season 2 of Star Trek Enterprise, The Crossing.

996
01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:16.679
Help me out.

997
01:03:19.739 --> 01:03:20.940
We'll say about.

998
01:03:21.059 --> 01:03:29.460
So it's the enterprise gets taken over by non-corporeal entities who take the, it's, I'm bored already.

999
01:03:29.519 --> 01:03:30.420
I'm pressing the button.

1000
01:03:33.900 --> 01:03:37.079
You couldn't even get to the end of the sentence.

1001
01:03:38.219 --> 01:03:40.619
I just rolled a really good one.

1002
01:03:40.679 --> 01:03:53.099
And it's an episode that was heavily referenced in the 1st episode of the latest series of Lower Decks, which screened last week.

1003
01:03:53.159 --> 01:03:55.619
It's the price.

1004
01:03:55.619 --> 01:03:58.139
Is that the one I watched last time?

1005
01:03:58.199 --> 01:03:59.340
Yeah.

1006
01:03:59.400 --> 01:04:02.159
And I thought we were going to do the Deanna Troy Romance episode.

1007
01:04:02.219 --> 01:04:02.760
Yeah.

1008
01:04:02.820 --> 01:04:04.320
Oh, that's great.

1009
01:04:04.380 --> 01:04:06.239
Well, I had great fun with it.

1010
01:04:06.300 --> 01:04:07.559
You all love it.

1011
01:04:07.619 --> 01:04:13.260
Marina, I remember it well. gets a ditch all a good girl act and just have a load of sex.

1012
01:04:13.320 --> 01:04:19.260
But you know what they did in the 1st episode of the latest series of lower decks.

1013
01:04:19.320 --> 01:04:25.079
They recreated the scene where Beverly and Deanna are in leotards.

1014
01:04:25.139 --> 01:04:31.260
Only it's shacks and ransom and they're doing the same exercises and everything.

1015
01:04:31.679 --> 01:04:33.960
And it was a scene.

1016
01:04:34.019 --> 01:04:43.920
It was a scene that worked actually just functionally as a scene of lower decks, even if you didn't know about the reference to the price, but it was just delightful if you did not.

1017
01:04:43.980 --> 01:04:50.219
I think it's a really good, solid episode of Star Trek, the next generation from season three.

1018
01:04:50.280 --> 01:04:50.940
I think it'll be great.

1019
01:04:51.000 --> 01:04:55.739
You know where the cameras are in those shots of Gates and Marina.

1020
01:04:55.800 --> 01:04:58.739
So you can see in the mirror and see their asses.

1021
01:04:58.800 --> 01:05:04.679
In the animation, they've even done it, so you can see shaxies and the other one's arse in the middle.

1022
01:05:04.739 --> 01:05:07.139
I'm like, that is an attention to detail.

1023
01:05:07.260 --> 01:05:07.920
I admire.

1024
01:05:07.980 --> 01:05:09.960
It's really pretty great isn't it?

1025
01:05:10.019 --> 01:05:17.820
You know, and the price has got just the most ridiculously horrendous romance music in it, so we'll have fun with that.

1026
01:05:17.880 --> 01:05:23.280
That's got the Barsan wormhole, which is going off to being Star Trek Voyager.

1027
01:05:23.340 --> 01:05:26.820
So a dreadful performance from someone in loads of makeup.

1028
01:05:26.880 --> 01:05:29.099
I mean it's just 90s gold.

1029
01:05:29.219 --> 01:05:40.199
It's really good and it actually is like it's a story that contributes a fair amount to the premise of Deep Space 9 as well.

1030
01:05:40.260 --> 01:05:44.340
So I think it's important and it's kind of fun and I think we should watch it.

1031
01:05:44.400 --> 01:05:52.679
It also has the best ever Troy line in scene one where Captain Picard comes over the speaker and goes, Counsellor, try.

1032
01:05:52.739 --> 01:05:55.559
You need to get to the 10 forward immediately.

1033
01:05:55.619 --> 01:06:03.599
You don't want to miss the opening of the wormhole and then she just makes sure he's gone and then she goes, No, I wouldn't want to miss the opening of the wormhole, would I?

1034
01:06:04.980 --> 01:06:07.079
You've grown in it.

1035
01:06:07.139 --> 01:06:09.119
It's not a thought against nature is great.

1036
01:06:09.179 --> 01:06:09.840
Let's do it.

1037
01:06:09.900 --> 01:06:11.760
Okay, awesome. brilliant.

1038
01:06:20.880 --> 01:06:32.159
I'm listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley, where online at Untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1039
01:06:32.219 --> 01:06:37.800
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lam.

1040
01:06:37.860 --> 01:06:43.380
This episode was recorded on the 12th of September 2023 and released on the 15th of September.

1041
01:06:43.440 --> 01:06:46.739
We'll see you next time for Star Trek the Next Generation.

1042
01:06:46.800 --> 01:06:47.940
Nice.

1043
01:07:03.659 --> 01:07:05.880
Doesn't it have the scene?

1044
01:07:05.940 --> 01:07:24.539
We're in 10 forward, and one of the Ferengi goes up to the bar, and there's a woman at the bar, and the Ferengi just holds his hands out like a foot apart to just sort of to indicate how well endowed he is, and she shakes her head and gets up and walks off in the background.

1045
01:07:25.199 --> 01:07:30.119
It's also got that horrible scene where she's oiling his chest.

1046
01:07:30.179 --> 01:07:34.739
Oh, and it's trying to be really sexy and it's so gross.

1047
01:07:34.800 --> 01:07:35.760
I was just talking.

1048
01:07:36.300 --> 01:07:38.039
Oh, gee, weird.

1049
01:07:38.039 --> 01:07:40.079
I mean, that shade just cannot do sexy.

1050
01:07:40.139 --> 01:07:42.000
Yeah, for sure.

1051
01:07:42.059 --> 01:07:46.139
It's actually pretty great the way that Star Trek can do sexy now.

1052
01:07:46.199 --> 01:07:46.980
I think.

1053
01:07:48.659 --> 01:07:50.880
They're all very attractive.

1054
01:07:52.019 --> 01:07:53.460
Did he ever do sexy in the 90s?

1055
01:07:53.519 --> 01:07:55.800
No, no it was always embarrassing.

1056
01:07:55.860 --> 01:08:02.280
It was either Horny Roddenbury sort of sexy from series one and 2 of Star Trek, which was just weird.

1057
01:08:02.340 --> 01:08:08.579
Like it was kind of leave your keys in that bowl near the near the door kind of weird.

1058
01:08:08.639 --> 01:08:10.260
And...

1059
01:08:10.260 --> 01:08:12.840
That's for Sharon, Sarah's one of their...

1060
01:08:12.900 --> 01:08:14.219
No, I don't think so.

1061
01:08:14.280 --> 01:08:15.539
Like, I think he's sort of trying.

1062
01:08:15.599 --> 01:08:19.319
I think there's something there, but he's just a little bit too kind of creepy.

1063
01:08:19.380 --> 01:08:31.680
And then, and then it's just like that embarrassing, like I just, you know, the worst Robert, trying to seduce the Delaney sisters in a sort of gross sophomoric kind of way.

1064
01:08:31.739 --> 01:08:33.180
It's just yuck. hate it.

1065
01:08:33.239 --> 01:08:39.539
I feel like they're almost ageing towards something with DS9, but it all gets a bit too mature.

1066
01:08:39.600 --> 01:08:44.520
So Cisco and Penny Johnson, that is it's a city couple.

1067
01:08:44.579 --> 01:08:48.300
They're very sexy, but they're sort of quite a mature relationship.

1068
01:08:48.359 --> 01:08:49.199
So...

1069
01:08:50.159 --> 01:08:51.180
So how old?

1070
01:08:51.239 --> 01:09:01.680
Like, I'd be super interested to compare like how old Sanequa and the guy who plays book are compared to Penny and Avery.

1071
01:09:01.739 --> 01:09:03.300
Do you know what I mean?

1072
01:09:03.420 --> 01:09:12.539
Because you read Penny and Avery as adults because we encountered them when we were much younger than them, but I'm older than Sydney.

1073
01:09:12.600 --> 01:09:14.279
It turns out they're exactly the same age.

1074
01:09:14.340 --> 01:09:16.079
Yeah, they're probably the same age.

1075
01:09:16.140 --> 01:09:20.640
It's just how old I was when I encountered them because I read them as sexy young people, you know.

1076
01:09:20.699 --> 01:09:23.579
You see them kiss, but you don't see anything more than that.

1077
01:09:23.640 --> 01:09:25.560
But I just, I like all the intimacy.

1078
01:09:25.619 --> 01:09:34.380
There's a bit where Cassidy gets out of the bed and Cisco grabs her cushion and smells it and then throws his cushion away and puts it down.

1079
01:09:34.439 --> 01:09:38.939
It's like, it's not sexy, but I like, I like...

1080
01:09:38.939 --> 01:09:39.720
Instead of comfortable.

1081
01:09:39.779 --> 01:09:40.800
Yeah, yeah.

1082
01:09:40.800 --> 01:09:45.779
I suppose there is that one bit where Worf and Dax finally, she jumps his bones.

1083
01:09:45.840 --> 01:09:47.399
She just gets on top of him, doesn't she?

1084
01:09:49.020 --> 01:09:50.520
So good.

1085
01:09:50.579 --> 01:09:53.939
Nah, I don't think there is a moment really, is there?

1086
01:09:54.000 --> 01:09:54.960
They're trying.

1087
01:09:55.020 --> 01:09:56.159
Yeah.

1088
01:09:56.699 --> 01:09:59.520
As for Tom Paris and B'Elana.

1089
01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:02.039
No one wants to see that.

1090
01:10:02.100 --> 01:10:03.659
No, or hear it.

1091
01:10:03.720 --> 01:10:06.000
Everyone on deck 17 can hear it.

1092
01:10:06.119 --> 01:10:09.359
When you get to 7 of 9 and Raffi is hot as hell.

1093
01:10:09.600 --> 01:10:12.180
Get your hands in my hair, Raffi.

1094
01:10:12.239 --> 01:10:16.560
They're older, they're older, you know, like they're older ladies. makes it even sixier.

1095
01:10:16.619 --> 01:10:17.340
Awesome.

1096
01:10:17.399 --> 01:10:24.180
Sorry, I realise this has now become the sex tag at the end of this very mature episode of Deep Space Nine.

1097
01:10:24.239 --> 01:10:26.460
Speaking of which, Phil Morris, can I say?

1098
01:10:27.779 --> 01:10:28.859
Pretty.

1099
01:10:28.920 --> 01:10:30.779
Oh, smoking.

1100
01:10:30.840 --> 01:10:32.100
Hmm.

1101
01:10:32.100 --> 01:10:32.939
Yeah.

1102
01:10:33.000 --> 01:10:40.260
Yeah, it almost makes me want to watch Star Trek 3, but I'm sure there'll only be in one scene and I'll just generally be disappointed.

1103
01:10:40.319 --> 01:10:41.520
I'm fast.

1104
01:10:41.520 --> 01:10:42.539
Is that a good conclusion?

1105
01:10:42.600 --> 01:10:43.739
It's not free.

1106
01:10:44.039 --> 01:10:48.239
I think it's a bit embarrassing, but it's it's got some great set pieces.

1107
01:10:48.300 --> 01:10:49.020
Star Trek.

1108
01:10:49.079 --> 01:10:51.840
It's got Christopher Christopher Lloyd in it, for goodness sakes.

1109
01:10:51.960 --> 01:10:52.439
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1110
01:10:52.500 --> 01:10:54.060
That's about sac Christopher Lee.

1111
01:10:54.119 --> 01:10:54.420
Sorry.

1112
01:10:54.840 --> 01:10:57.119
One last thing about sex.

1113
01:10:57.180 --> 01:11:04.140
I'm fast coming to the conclusion that for me, the sexiest person in all of Star Trek is Afred Brooks.

1114
01:11:04.199 --> 01:11:07.140
There's just something about he's got he's got a something about him.

1115
01:11:07.199 --> 01:11:08.399
Yeah, he does.

1116
01:11:08.460 --> 01:11:11.640
He does. presence and a fabulous bald head and a goatee.

1117
01:11:11.699 --> 01:11:12.600
Yeah, yeah.

1118
01:11:12.659 --> 01:11:13.199
Yep.

1119
01:11:13.260 --> 01:11:14.520
No, love all of that.

1120
01:11:14.579 --> 01:11:16.140
Well, you would.

1121
01:11:20.640 --> 01:11:22.979
All now podcasting buddies.

1122
01:11:23.100 --> 01:11:25.859
Yeah, I'm coming to that conclusion.

1123
01:11:26.699 --> 01:11:29.279
There's definitely a type there.