WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 23:13:02

1
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Hey, Joe. Hi.

2
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So we're back in Discovery, the first series of the new Kurtzman, Star Trek Heyday, and it's been a while since we've done it, and every time we do it, it reminds me actually how much I like kind of hanging out with these people, but it's so different from just about anything else we ever do.

3
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I'm in a disadvantageous position that the last few times we've come back to this show, I'm reminded why this is probably my least favourite Star Trek series.

4
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Of all, of all.

5
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Oh, maybe not the animated series.

6
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I'm not sure that even deserves the title series, though. you know, skits maybe.

7
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Yeah, I mean, look, I think, I think this is, you know, clearly better than a lot of 90s trek, and the reason that it's better is that it's weird in a way that 90 straight doesn't attempt to be.

8
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And it's visually weird and interesting and sort of unsettling in all sorts of ways.

9
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Destructing, I think, was the word you use on our Fred.

10
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And sometimes I don't think it needs to be as distracting as it is.

11
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Oh yeah, I think it's trying to disconcert you.

12
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And certainly in series one where Discovery is kind of a hostile place as far as Michael's concerned and certainly not her home in any sense, the direction goes out of its way to kind of be unsettling.

13
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And I still think you get that a little bit in Discovery's corridors.

14
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And then there's the big sort of wheeling the camera around upside down for no reason when we go on board the section 39 ship, as if to say discovery. on Strange New Worlds.

15
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They don't they don't do that Australia Worlds.

16
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No.

17
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And that's the thing.

18
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Like, strangely, worlds reins it back in again.

19
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And Strangely Worlds is odd, but it's not as complex and the characters are more straightforward and the storytelling is more straightforward.

20
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For me, it is more fun to watch.

21
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Oh, it is.

22
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I think that if this is a fault, I think it's a little bit too rightly and a little bit too sombre.

23
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And there are fun moments and funny lines, but there's a kind of level of self-seriousness that I don't always kind of buy. you talking about this episode or this TV show?

24
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This season more than anything else?

25
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I think.

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This is my least favourite season of Discovery.

27
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And I think it's because we discover that some Sanequa is a very good actor and an incredibly strong lead.

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And we do something that we haven't emphasised in previous Star Trek shows, which is we make it about how she feels about things and we give her things to feel about.

29
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So she's got this backstory and she's got sort of dead parents who then get upgraded to missing and she's got this relationship with this with Spock and she's got this childhood of kind of exile and anxiety and, you know, being teased for being human and stuff like that.

30
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So she's got this rich story that she has things to feel about.

31
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And they just, I think, in series 2, lean into that too much.

32
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And so there's a lot of talking and a lot of her looking soulful and stuff like that. exemplified in this episode, which suffers from incredibly dull, very long dialogue scenes, where she's acting her heart out, but I was just so disengaged by the tone of it.

33
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Like you and I, we've already talked about the soap opera in Star Trek.

34
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But that sort of grandiose melodramatic, so popular.

35
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. of the latter-day DS9.

36
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This isn't that.

37
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I mean, this is sort of playing it for real.

38
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Yeah, and that's just not very interesting to watch.

39
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And come the end of this season, all of this introspection and overdone sentiment is taken to the nth degree, the penultimate episode of this season is one of the most agonising episodes of Star Trek.

40
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As every character says goodbye for about 15 minutes and the strings are in and everyone's crying and I'm like, just get on with it.

41
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

42
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Well, I'm at the point then where I'm kind of going, they better not really be going into the future because I'm going to be really annoyed.

43
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Part of the way...

44
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Well, part of the reason that I, like, I think the 2 seasons where they're in the future are much better and have a clearer focus and a better idea of what the show is going to be about.

45
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And series one, I think, is clearly about something and series 2 is this weird kind of transitional period where we're slightly apologising for series one because some people didn't really get it.

46
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And we didn't know it at the time, but this is another backdoor pilot for another show.

47
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

48
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That's right.

49
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Just a 2nd in a row.

50
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Yeah, yeah.

51
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So I don't think this sort of fully works, but I really like, so there's some plot.

52
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There's sort of two, there's sort of one big soap opera subplot which is about the death of Hugh and his return to life and how that affects his relationship with Paul.

53
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And I think that's really good.

54
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And Ash is obviously involved in that because it was Voke that killed Hugh towards the end of series one in what was a massive, dumb mistake, a huge misstep for the show to take.

55
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I will say that the sequence in this, which we will talk about later, where, um, Oh God, Colba and Ash.

56
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Yeah, Ash.

57
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Yeah.

58
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Pock?

59
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whatever his name is.

60
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Yeah, yeah, that is.

61
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The fight sequence.

62
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You've got 2 of the hottest men on this show going at each other in the mess up.

63
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Suddenly my interest peaked, you know?

64
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

65
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Yeah, yeah.

66
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And the reaction around that. like I think all of that's really good.

67
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And I think the great thing about it too is that it's been soundly mocked since then by lower decks, because that show kills shacks off in the season one finale and then brings him back a few episodes later and makes the whole thing about how bridge crew died. never know the time and come back.

68
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And someone's coming up with these absurd Star Trek plots to try, guess the way that he came back, you know?

69
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And it's an official secret.

70
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Yeah, but I mean, they earn it.

71
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They solidly punish themselves for being so stupid as to kill him off.

72
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And here we are just over halfway through the season and it's still happening.

73
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It's still an ongoing plot.

74
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You remember when we pulled this one out of the randomiser?

75
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And I went, 0 yeah, this is the one where they go to Talos 7 and it's the original.

76
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And you said, yeah, it's got that previously on Star Trek Bit.

77
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And I think what this promises at the beginning is a really sort of nostalgic look back at the cage.

78
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And I think that entire plot here, that's what fails miserably.

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It's not camp and silly and fun like the cage was.

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So it's not sort of getting the tone right.

81
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It takes away a lot of the artifice, and I know you're going to come at me saying that TVs change these days, but they did do that in Strange New Worlds when they did a TOS pastige.

82
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So they can do it.

83
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And instead we're on location and the aliens have all been, they've got sort of heads looking slightly less embarrassing than they did in the 60s.

84
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Yeah, but I think that's a deliberate thing.

85
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I think that they're definitely trying to do that.

86
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And that's one of this show's missions.

87
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But it does feel like they're a little embarrassed about it.

88
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No, but I don't think they are because they absolutely put that stuff on screen.

89
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And what they say is that Anson Mount is the same character who was played by whoever the hell, way back in the cage, and they even do that by, you know, kind of cutting to him looking like or in the same kind of stance as the other guy was.

90
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And I think that this is saying, you know, this is what this show looks like with modern production values.

91
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And there were bafflingly dim critics who were saying, well, all the technology here looks newer than it did in the 1960s.

92
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And that's inconsistent.

93
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It's a uh, discontinuity with the uh, with the original show.

94
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And this show is saying, yes, it is.

95
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That's absolutely this.

96
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We are telling the same story about some of the same people, but we're doing it on, you know, a modern TV budget and now Strange New Worlds does the same thing. absolutely the same thing.

97
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And it does the usual sort of, oh, we were in space stock and we redecorated, so all the rooms are 5 times as big as they're going to be, you know, 10 years time or whatever.

98
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It's as thin as possible.

99
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And of course we're doing that because the job of this show is to look weird and spectacular.

100
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But when DS9 went back into TOS and Tribulation, obviously they're putting the characters within that episode, so it looks camping 60s and wonderful.

101
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And when Strange New Wells did it, I thought they did that as well.

102
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This feels like the anomaly of those 3 lookbacks at TOS.

103
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But do you remember that at the end of this season we actually go back on board the Enterprise and we see number one and stuff like that?

104
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We go back on board the Enterprise, and the fun of that is seeing how on the new budget, they're going to create something that looks wild and spectacular and consistent with the look of this show while still evoking the original sets from the 1960s.

105
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And I think most people thought that they did a good job of that.

106
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Well, I'm certainly not talking about the production style now.

107
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I don't think this invoked the cage at all.

108
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Yeah, and I really, I realise that.

109
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I think at this point, they're still a little tentative to have as much fun as they should be with going back and doing the cage.

110
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They're still like, right, no, we need to be polished science fiction. serious drama and all of this.

111
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And you know, you and I have discussed this in the past.

112
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That's not what Star Trek is.

113
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That's right.

114
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That's right And it doesn't work. it is quite boring.

115
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

116
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Like, I think I think the longest scene is the one where we get Michael's flashback, you know, the memory that she's paying the Talosians with and it's a sort of long story.

117
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But it's told in an interesting way visually, and both Ethan Peck and Sanequa Martin Green do a great job of acting it.

118
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But yes, like you, I would prefer my Star Trek a little bit less po-faced than this.

119
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They were great and they were doing everything that was awesome.

120
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Yeah, yeah.

121
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I was, I kept waiting for the moment and it, you know, usually happens whenever Star Trek goes into soap opera where they deflate it.

122
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No, no, where I should be humiliated by this.

123
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Tom Paris going, you know, Bilana, talk to me.

124
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I was like, so ridiculous like that.

125
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And it just never happened.

126
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So I felt as if I was genuinely watching somebody's therapy session and that is an entertainment to me.

127
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Yeah, yeah.

128
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I think that, I mean, I think there are properly funny lines here, um, and, you know, there's fun to be had and it looks great and the action is sort of fun and all of that.

129
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Where the where the fun was, was in the fabulous gay storyline.

130
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Because I thought that that had moments where it was heading into sort of daytime soap opera.

131
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

132
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Stop talking.

133
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It looks to me like you know who I am.

134
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Yeah, we're doing all this stuff.

135
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I'm talking about.

136
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I think those 2 actors together are brilliant. have to play chemistry.

137
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And actually, we've seen you and I on Star Trek. have seen later episodes where they're just the highlight of the show when they're together sometimes.

138
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So that works.

139
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And you said to me in the thread, like, this is very busy.

140
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Yes.

141
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And I said, yeah, but for once, that's not a bad thing because this had all been set on Talos 7.

142
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Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

143
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It would have been in terminal to watch.

144
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Yeah.

145
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Yeah.

146
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And I think, you know, that's the thing that's happening here too.

147
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That Star Trek discovery is serialised and has been since the 1st series and will continue to be.

148
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Each series tells a different story.

149
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And like the Talos thing is obviously what's trying to tie it together.

150
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And I guess it's what the title, you know, what...

151
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Well, I don't know where the title comes from.

152
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Is it is it that plot or is it the Hugh plot?

153
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But in any case, there's something about memory happening, but I don't think it ties it up enough.

154
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And I certainly think that in later series, they do a better job.

155
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If they were going to do this in series five.

156
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I think they go to town now.

157
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Now we've had lower decks.

158
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Now we've had Strange New Worlds.

159
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Okay.

160
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Let's loosen up.

161
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Let's have some jokes in there, you know?

162
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I'm pretty sure that that's what's going to happen when they come back next year.

163
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I think that this is their finale and I think they're going to have some fun.

164
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I think that they, they're clearly aware right from episode one of series 3 that they haven't been quite fun enough and they do their best to, you know, increase the fun quotient, I think.

165
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But also, as well, that's the season they're going out on.

166
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And I think they've earned it because they brought back this iteration on Star Trek and allowed us to have all the other stuff that we love.

167
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And I'm not saying this is all bad because there's a lot of discovery I like as well, but I think they deserve that sort of celebratory last season of just going out and having a party, you know?

168
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Yeah.

169
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I think particularly a show that was affected by COVID and a show that was affected by weird production stuff in the 1st season and a show that kind of struggled to find its feet and stuff.

170
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It's a good cast and there are some great characters and things and I would like them to have fun on the way out too.

171
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What discoveries become, isn't it?

172
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It's become the anti-DS 9.

173
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I know we find a lot of parallels with them.

174
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But DS9 started off as sort of regular trek and then found its voice and then did its own thing.

175
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Discovery started as its own thing.

176
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You know, found its own voice and then said, actually, no, we should be a little bit more like Star Trek, you know.

177
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Yeah, yeah.

178
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I think Strangely World's existence might take the pressure off discovery to be that and it can be more deep space 90.

179
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It can just be the weird serialised show over on the side, I think.

180
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I'm just hoping the cast of Discovery art watching Strange New Worlds and going, well, look at all the fun they're having over there. right.

181
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They're doing a musical episode, for God's sake.

182
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Exactly.

183
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Well, that's it.

184
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You could never imagine the Elysian Kingdom or those old scientists or subspace rhapsody happening on this show.

185
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It's too serious.

186
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And I think that's a that's a flaw.

187
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Well, I'm sold to go and watch this.

188
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Are you?

189
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Yeah, I'm gonna have fun, I'm sure.

190
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I'm going to have fun with you.

191
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Okay.

192
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All right, I'll count as him then in that case.

193
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Five, four, three, two, one.

194
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And we're off.

195
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So, like, I think this thing, this previously on Star Trek, where they recapping the cage and they're using, like, absolutely the original print, do you know what I mean?

196
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They're not using the updated special effects or anything.

197
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There's heaps of film grain.

198
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Everything looks super rough.

199
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I think that part of what, and look, look at what Talos, um, 4 looks like.

200
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And there are the plants.

201
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The blue plants, they'll be back.

202
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And I think part of what this show is doing.

203
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There's Melissa Joel.

204
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Melissa George there, I see.

205
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Fresh from neighbours.

206
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That's right.

207
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Oh, look, the original Tulosians are the best.

208
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They are so funny, aren't they?

209
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Yes.

210
00:16:19.139 --> 00:16:21.659
So, so, and this thing too.

211
00:16:21.720 --> 00:16:28.860
One of the things is that we're getting a real Gary 7 performance here from the actor who's playing Pike.

212
00:16:28.919 --> 00:16:31.500
There's no humour and no lightness at all.

213
00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:39.360
And there's our pike, who is also trying to look very serious there, but is actually a lot more fun.

214
00:16:39.419 --> 00:16:42.360
We'll say, though, the original. very pretty, isn't he?

215
00:16:42.419 --> 00:16:43.559
He's got his eyes pop.

216
00:16:43.620 --> 00:16:49.080
He's got very blue eyes, but I've always found him just a massive charisma vacuum.

217
00:16:49.139 --> 00:16:51.720
I'm not sure we saw enough of it, you know.

218
00:16:51.779 --> 00:16:55.500
We need him in a spot's brain or something like that to truly...

219
00:16:55.500 --> 00:17:02.399
It is the camera going around because we're in section 31.

220
00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:06.779
And I think they're trying to do a 3D nus of space.

221
00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:08.519
So that camera, turn on a washroom.

222
00:17:08.579 --> 00:17:11.640
I was like, yeah, you don't have got to tell me what TV show I'm watching.

223
00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:12.240
I know.

224
00:17:12.299 --> 00:17:16.500
So, now look, look, Emperor George, no, she's not emperor, is she?

225
00:17:16.619 --> 00:17:18.779
No, she, Well, yeah.

226
00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:20.819
She'll always be Emperor Giorgio to me.

227
00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:25.079
She turns up at the beginning of the end to remind us of discovery can, in fact. can be fun.

228
00:17:25.140 --> 00:17:27.420
But look at these these admirals here.

229
00:17:27.480 --> 00:17:34.380
So there's one from each of the founding races of the Federation, and I think this is one of the best live action Tellerites we've seen.

230
00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:36.539
You'll see him over the site.

231
00:17:36.599 --> 00:17:37.680
He's got a line of dialogue.

232
00:17:37.740 --> 00:17:38.519
I think he looks really good.

233
00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:42.900
You know, is this the only trick that's using lens flare as well?

234
00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:44.220
Discovery.

235
00:17:44.279 --> 00:17:47.279
There, look at, look at the look, look, look, look at the Tellerie guy.

236
00:17:47.339 --> 00:17:48.359
He looks like a war honk.

237
00:17:48.420 --> 00:17:48.839
He's awesome.

238
00:17:48.900 --> 00:17:49.799
Oh, terrible.

239
00:17:49.859 --> 00:17:53.759
You could say, you did say nobody could get the teller rights, right.

240
00:17:53.819 --> 00:17:55.619
Well, this is as close as they get.

241
00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:58.079
I think apart from Pog, who I think looks fantastic.

242
00:17:58.140 --> 00:17:59.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

243
00:17:59.940 --> 00:18:00.960
Yeah, look at that guy.

244
00:18:01.019 --> 00:18:02.579
He looks like an angry old white guy.

245
00:18:02.700 --> 00:18:03.480
Only he's a hog.

246
00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:04.319
It's awesome.

247
00:18:04.380 --> 00:18:09.299
I wasn't really paying attention to what was going on in these scenes because I was just trying to get to Talos.

248
00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:10.740
So what's happening here?

249
00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:12.720
I don't know.

250
00:18:12.779 --> 00:18:29.819
So, so Leland is bugging the ship. and we're supposed to think it's Tyler, who is also working for section 31, I think, but in fact, it's Arium, the robot lady on the bridge, who's part of the scenery on the bridge.

251
00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:33.839
Um, and there is a thing.

252
00:18:33.900 --> 00:18:43.140
So what this season does, is the same thing as what Picard series one does, where it imagines an AI related apocalypse.

253
00:18:43.140 --> 00:18:54.059
And you remember the Romulan women who have the vision of that apocalypse and they go mad and Commodore O is one of them and she passes that vision onto Agnes.

254
00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:54.960
Yeah.

255
00:18:55.019 --> 00:18:56.279
So this...

256
00:18:56.279 --> 00:18:57.960
Oh yeah, that sequence is extraordinary.

257
00:18:58.019 --> 00:19:04.980
So we'll see that thing, a different AI apocalypse, obviously, because it's a different century.

258
00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:09.599
But we will see a future that they have to avert.

259
00:19:09.660 --> 00:19:20.819
And so the Red Angel spoiler is Michael's mother in a time travelling suit, because of course it is, that's how we can get Sanequa to cry.

260
00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:24.119
And it's not just off camera.

261
00:19:24.180 --> 00:19:25.259
That's right.

262
00:19:25.259 --> 00:19:26.099
That's right.

263
00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:27.539
But she does it so well.

264
00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:36.839
And we've got to avert this terrifying future that's caused by AI, not the Borg, but just AI.

265
00:19:36.900 --> 00:19:42.900
I mean, that sounds like a fairly interesting premise for a Star Trek season.

266
00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:47.099
Yeah, and you remember that we have the the sphere.

267
00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:49.380
Turn the bloody cameras straight.

268
00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:51.660
What are they all on a walk like this?

269
00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:54.599
Because it's trying to make it seem like space.

270
00:19:54.660 --> 00:19:55.740
Okay.

271
00:19:55.799 --> 00:19:56.819
I think.

272
00:19:56.880 --> 00:19:58.559
Just making me want to go like this.

273
00:19:58.619 --> 00:20:00.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

274
00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:04.680
Look, you can always watch Voyager if you want some dull...

275
00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:06.119
That's where I'll take a snake.

276
00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:09.900
Bige sets over lift.

277
00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:23.279
Can I just say, now look at the yellow lighting on discovery is beautiful, and it's a very different look from the sort of slight blue that we get on enterprise, you know, in Strangely Worlds.

278
00:20:23.339 --> 00:20:24.059
I think it looks beautiful.

279
00:20:24.119 --> 00:20:27.359
It's like the sun shines through the windows. is also beautiful.

280
00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:30.599
Although I can't get used to this sort of dark in his hair.

281
00:20:30.660 --> 00:20:33.299
I know he's a bit younger here than he was in Strange New Wales.

282
00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:35.700
Well, Jimmy, a couple of years. gorgeous.

283
00:20:35.819 --> 00:20:37.799
No, to the giant hair he's got.

284
00:20:37.859 --> 00:20:41.400
I'm loving ashes, long hair.

285
00:20:41.460 --> 00:20:43.440
It looks...

286
00:20:43.500 --> 00:20:44.579
Yeah, yeah.

287
00:20:44.700 --> 00:20:46.619
And he's so tall.

288
00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:48.119
That's part of the fun.

289
00:20:48.180 --> 00:20:49.319
He's so much taller than Michael.

290
00:20:49.380 --> 00:20:50.819
So now Michael...

291
00:20:50.819 --> 00:20:53.759
So many hot blokes in this, you know, we'll have to...

292
00:20:53.819 --> 00:20:55.619
He's Ethan Peck, who's...

293
00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:57.539
And he's got a bit of scruff as well, isn't he?

294
00:20:57.599 --> 00:20:58.500
Yeah, looks good.

295
00:20:58.619 --> 00:21:02.640
Although Michael says something rude about the beard, which I think is pretty great.

296
00:21:02.700 --> 00:21:10.259
The other thing that I really like, and an unsung hero of this show is the woman who plays the computer.

297
00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:12.779
I love the computer on Discovery.

298
00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:15.180
Like, I just think she's got a great voice.

299
00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:17.579
You know, it's just a thing.

300
00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:23.279
I'm convinced now, the other song Hero of Discovery, and she barely features in this, so it might be another issue.

301
00:21:23.339 --> 00:21:24.240
I forgot with this.

302
00:21:24.299 --> 00:21:24.900
It's Tilly.

303
00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:25.140
Yeah.

304
00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:26.099
Yeah, she's pretty great.

305
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:29.640
She just comes along to punch her all this seriousness and go, no, no, no.

306
00:21:29.700 --> 00:21:30.839
We're going to have a laugh, you know?

307
00:21:30.900 --> 00:21:35.579
And because she's a normal person and someone who we haven't seen in Star Trek before.

308
00:21:35.640 --> 00:21:40.019
It's the very definite thing where we're not doing space people on this show.

309
00:21:40.140 --> 00:21:44.099
And I think they do do space people a bit and but they certainly do it less.

310
00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:47.880
Well, it's more the sort of representatives of the federation, isn't it?

311
00:21:47.940 --> 00:21:49.140
They're the space people.

312
00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:50.160
Yeah.

313
00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:52.920
Can I just say, what you just said about Sonnequa there?

314
00:21:52.980 --> 00:21:56.519
I am very mean about her and I do think she always gives a good performance.

315
00:21:56.579 --> 00:21:59.519
I just don't always think she's given the best writing.

316
00:21:59.579 --> 00:22:02.819
But when we watched series 3 episode...

317
00:22:02.940 --> 00:22:03.839
Look how beautiful she is.

318
00:22:03.900 --> 00:22:08.099
And she got to be drunk and just have the best time ever.

319
00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:09.539
Yeah, or whatever it was.

320
00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:11.400
I was like, gee, I want more of this.

321
00:22:11.460 --> 00:22:14.339
And she does loosen up in the future, doesn't she?

322
00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:16.740
And it is a better approach.

323
00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:20.220
Yeah, they give her less, like they're less mean to her.

324
00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:34.200
Like there's not terrible things happening to her all the time, which is how the show starts and then continues this season. what's wrong with me today. a bit horny, but they also give a smoking hot boyfriend and they, well, that just helps. works like the clappers.

325
00:22:34.259 --> 00:22:56.039
So I think for the 1st time I understand these titles, Ryan, because remember that one of the things that this episode is doing is recreating the aliens and some locations, and they show us as a baseline what it looked like. you know, in a lot of detail what it looked like in 1966.

326
00:22:56.339 --> 00:23:00.059
And now they're going to show us that done now.

327
00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:06.900
And one of the things that this show had to do was to redesign the world of Star Trek.

328
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:08.400
What does Star Trek look like now?

329
00:23:08.460 --> 00:23:10.440
We had a definite look in the 90s.

330
00:23:10.500 --> 00:23:12.180
We had a different look in the 60s.

331
00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:13.680
Now we have to have a different look.

332
00:23:13.799 --> 00:23:23.460
And of course, you know, then Strangely Worlds. an altogether different look and Picard will have a different look, but we're designing a new look for what Star Trek is.

333
00:23:23.519 --> 00:23:26.099
And so that's why you have blueprints in the opening titles.

334
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:30.420
Playing that, though, I think when this goes off the air, then what have we got left?

335
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:36.119
Strange New Worlds and I know Prodigy is getting out another season, but that's it for now, I think.

336
00:23:36.180 --> 00:23:37.920
Yeah. and lower deck.

337
00:23:37.980 --> 00:23:40.440
So we're going to have a show that's very 90s focus.

338
00:23:40.500 --> 00:23:44.880
We can have a show that's very 60s focussed, but with a new sort of polish to it.

339
00:23:44.940 --> 00:23:47.339
I think we need another show to forge ahead.

340
00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:48.900
Yeah.

341
00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:49.619
Yeah.

342
00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:57.720
Like people talk about Star Trek legacy, you know, as if we're going to have the Enterprise G or whatever it is with Raffi and 7. and I would love that.

343
00:23:57.779 --> 00:23:59.099
I'm sure that would find that.

344
00:23:59.700 --> 00:24:00.599
Enterprise D now.

345
00:24:00.660 --> 00:24:01.740
We can just have those back.

346
00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:05.279
I'd love to see something in the future.

347
00:24:05.339 --> 00:24:15.720
Maybe the Starfleet Academy thing is Tilly in the future because she leaves the show to join Starfleet Academy towards the end of series four, I think.

348
00:24:15.779 --> 00:24:19.859
Probably not going to spend this, spend this entire episode sweating.

349
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:22.140
But Wilson, is it Wilson Cruz?

350
00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:23.279
Wilson Cruise, yeah.

351
00:24:23.339 --> 00:24:26.339
Oh, that is so cool.

352
00:24:26.339 --> 00:24:29.700
I believe this pair as a couple as well.

353
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:34.140
You know, and I think that really had to work because it's the 1st time we've done this.

354
00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:35.339
Yeah, yeah.

355
00:24:35.460 --> 00:24:45.960
Yeah, see how how the directions, something about the way the cameras move around the corridors and stuff is a bit off putting, and I think deliberately so.

356
00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:48.240
Annoyingly so.

357
00:24:48.299 --> 00:24:50.039
Yeah, no, I like it.

358
00:24:50.099 --> 00:24:52.079
I always have this argument, won't we?

359
00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:52.740
Lens flair.

360
00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:55.619
No, I've gone off Lensflare as well.

361
00:24:55.680 --> 00:24:58.019
I felt like I've seen a bit too much of it now.

362
00:24:58.079 --> 00:25:02.160
And I've noticed TV's kind of stopped doing it to the extent that it was.

363
00:25:02.220 --> 00:25:03.180
Yeah.

364
00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:09.240
Yeah, but I mean, I like the camera being a bit handheld and, you know, giving us a definite point of view.

365
00:25:09.299 --> 00:25:10.500
See, that's quite good, isn't it?

366
00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:14.400
I'm not going to say this isn't incredible looking because it clearly is.

367
00:25:14.460 --> 00:25:19.440
And this is probably the most expensive Star Trek show of the Kurtzman era.

368
00:25:19.500 --> 00:25:21.359
Yeah, look at that. budget.

369
00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:24.539
Oh no, I think the sets in...

370
00:25:24.599 --> 00:25:28.380
I think I think probably Strangely Worlds is...

371
00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:34.019
You know, this is now 4 or 5 years old, 4 years old.

372
00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:36.299
It's robot. character.

373
00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:37.559
Oh, it's Soroan.

374
00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:38.700
All is right.

375
00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:39.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

376
00:25:39.660 --> 00:25:40.259
Yeah.

377
00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:54.539
And we just discovered that in the 23rd century, we are still using SQL as a database query language from that dialogue from Arium there, which is terrifying, reassuring and kind of terrifying at the same time.

378
00:25:54.599 --> 00:25:58.619
For me, who doesn't move along with technology is very reassuring.

379
00:25:58.740 --> 00:26:00.299
There's Tilly.

380
00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:01.319
There's Tilly.

381
00:26:01.380 --> 00:26:04.559
She pops her head out of the console.

382
00:26:04.619 --> 00:26:12.900
I mean, you know, it actually took you to point out just how good Saru was because I think I had written him off in series one.

383
00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:15.180
And then you said, no, keep an eye on that character.

384
00:26:15.180 --> 00:26:17.339
And by 2 and three.

385
00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:22.799
He's just the best character in this show. depths that he manages to give after that.

386
00:26:22.859 --> 00:26:26.819
It's Renee Aubergonoir levels of... under latex.

387
00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:34.380
And so it's Doug Jones, who is obviously the lead gentleman in Buffy's hush.

388
00:26:34.500 --> 00:26:36.599
We ever see his face.

389
00:26:36.660 --> 00:26:39.240
Well, no, we did see his face, didn't we, in that episode?

390
00:26:39.299 --> 00:26:40.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah. yep, yep.

391
00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:43.920
He's also the fish in face in shape of water.

392
00:26:43.980 --> 00:26:47.940
Nathan, I don't want to be this person, but that is not Talos 7.

393
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:49.859
No, no, no, it is.

394
00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:50.519
Of course it is.

395
00:26:50.579 --> 00:26:53.039
It's 10 or 7, but created in 2018.

396
00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:55.559
It's not what we're doing, Dog 2 again.

397
00:26:55.619 --> 00:26:56.339
We in a quarry.

398
00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:58.140
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

399
00:26:58.200 --> 00:27:01.259
But we've got a green sky and we've got a fisheye lens.

400
00:27:01.319 --> 00:27:06.839
You know, like, look at how big that shuttle looks as well.

401
00:27:06.900 --> 00:27:10.140
And the fantastic physical switches and stuff like that.

402
00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:17.400
Like there's a real feel of, like it feels real in a way that 90s Shrek and certainly 60s Shrek never did.

403
00:27:17.460 --> 00:27:19.980
But it's also incredibly graded as well.

404
00:27:20.039 --> 00:27:21.779
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

405
00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:23.279
So it's a bit dull to look at.

406
00:27:23.339 --> 00:27:24.720
You know what they should have done?

407
00:27:24.779 --> 00:27:27.180
You know that set that they erect at conventions?

408
00:27:27.240 --> 00:27:30.059
They kept one of the early TNG planet sets.

409
00:27:30.119 --> 00:27:31.799
They should have just dragged that out.

410
00:27:32.099 --> 00:27:36.779
Yeah, that's right But it looks big and with the fish eye lens, it looks amazing.

411
00:27:36.839 --> 00:27:37.859
That's...

412
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:40.019
Yeah, sure, it's incredible going around.

413
00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:40.680
It looks amazing.

414
00:27:40.740 --> 00:27:42.779
Look how pretty she is.

415
00:27:42.839 --> 00:27:43.680
Holy crap.

416
00:27:43.740 --> 00:27:44.700
I am the problem.

417
00:27:44.759 --> 00:27:46.319
I am that person you were talking about earlier.

418
00:27:46.380 --> 00:27:48.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

419
00:27:48.059 --> 00:27:49.019
Needs to look more crap.

420
00:27:50.940 --> 00:27:52.680
Yes, please.

421
00:27:52.799 --> 00:28:05.519
But look, and it's those same plants making the same singing noise, delighting her brother in original, in original trek and now delighting her and just that.

422
00:28:05.579 --> 00:28:06.900
Look, it snaps closed.

423
00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:08.339
That's so lovely.

424
00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:17.519
I do need to bring this up whilst I remember, but this was the only episode that Jammer gave 4 stars to in the entire run of Discovery today.

425
00:28:17.579 --> 00:28:19.079
No, it's not very far.

426
00:28:19.140 --> 00:28:21.359
It's incredibly serious and not fun.

427
00:28:21.420 --> 00:28:23.220
I think you might be right about him, you know.

428
00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:24.960
But look at what Melissa Jaws.

429
00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:28.799
So this is Melissa George from Neighbours.

430
00:28:28.859 --> 00:28:36.539
And I think what's the character who the actor who plays Christine Chappel is Jess?

431
00:28:36.660 --> 00:28:38.099
Something?

432
00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:38.579
Bush?

433
00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:39.779
I can't remember.

434
00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:41.460
But she's from home and away.

435
00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:44.759
So we have, this is Australian soap stars again.

436
00:28:44.819 --> 00:28:51.599
And so Melissa George was a bit of a sort of household face in Australia and she probably won a silver Logie, who knows?

437
00:28:51.660 --> 00:28:54.900
But she's still at her IMDb page, you know.

438
00:28:54.960 --> 00:28:56.039
She did a lot of work.

439
00:28:56.099 --> 00:28:58.440
Yeah, she skipped over to America.

440
00:28:58.500 --> 00:29:01.019
So she's she's a face, you know, the people.

441
00:29:01.079 --> 00:29:01.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

442
00:29:01.559 --> 00:29:02.880
But I love the dress.

443
00:29:02.940 --> 00:29:03.779
Do you know what I mean?

444
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:05.279
The dress is very 60s.

445
00:29:05.339 --> 00:29:13.799
She's wearing a very short, but it's a sort of slightly science fiction-y updated version of the dress, but I think it...

446
00:29:13.859 --> 00:29:15.900
You know, my usual unfair comparisons.

447
00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:16.740
I'm gonna do one now.

448
00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:20.099
You remember that fabulous woman who played the pirate in Strange New Worlds?

449
00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:24.119
got to give that dreadful backstory and then saying, ah, I fold you all.

450
00:29:24.180 --> 00:29:26.579
Um, the fun she had.

451
00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:32.460
Poor Melissa George is stuck delivering exposition and looking very serious throughout being...

452
00:29:32.460 --> 00:29:34.319
It's a bit thankless.

453
00:29:34.380 --> 00:29:36.240
Yeah, yeah.

454
00:29:36.900 --> 00:29:40.500
At least you're not arguing. were you arguing?

455
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:48.240
Like, I always just sort of try and imagine what it would be like to, like, suddenly be on a sound stage with Mr. Spock.

456
00:29:48.299 --> 00:29:49.380
Do you know what I mean?

457
00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:51.539
I just got to think, wait, Mr. Spock is here.

458
00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:52.859
I'm doing a thing and he's there.

459
00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:56.579
I bet she was like Terry Farrell and trials and tribulations, you know?

460
00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:58.200
But it's James Kirk.

461
00:29:59.220 --> 00:30:02.160
Gosh, he's looking good too, isn't he?

462
00:30:02.220 --> 00:30:03.000
Holy crap.

463
00:30:03.059 --> 00:30:05.220
It is very blue, isn't it?

464
00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:06.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

465
00:30:06.539 --> 00:30:20.819
No, and they do do that, and they try, like, because they're not going to use sets for planets, and they haven't developed that big special effects wall yet. that they use to create planets with varying degrees of success on strange new worlds.

466
00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:27.299
Uh, you know, they use colour grading to try and make the the planet seem alien.

467
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:30.720
And, you know, I think that green sky is really effective.

468
00:30:30.779 --> 00:30:35.220
You know, they'll later go to places like Iceland and stuff and shoot there.

469
00:30:35.279 --> 00:30:36.480
Oh, beginning of three.

470
00:30:36.539 --> 00:30:37.740
Yeah, stomach.

471
00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:38.220
Yeah, yeah.

472
00:30:38.279 --> 00:30:40.019
Yeah, it looks great. absolutely stunning.

473
00:30:41.460 --> 00:30:53.819
At the end of this episode, when Michael and Spock are together and they're replaying as adults, the scenes they had as kids.

474
00:30:53.819 --> 00:30:56.220
So what's the problem?

475
00:30:56.279 --> 00:31:00.839
Michael said to Spock, you know, you're half human and that's a problem.

476
00:31:00.900 --> 00:31:04.019
No, you're a weird little half breed and I don't like you.

477
00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:16.259
Like, and so we have a Spock that idolised Michael because Michael was older than her and made being humans seem fun to him, like seem not a bad thing.

478
00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:23.400
And so she solidly rejects him in such a way as to stop him feeling that way.

479
00:31:23.460 --> 00:31:28.259
Because we've seen Vulcan logic separatists write from series one of this show.

480
00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:38.880
And I think that's a sort of interesting idea because logic in the 60s seems to be like the right way of going about thinking about things.

481
00:31:38.940 --> 00:31:39.960
Do you know what I mean?

482
00:31:40.019 --> 00:31:42.960
That logic leads you to the correct answers and stuff like that.

483
00:31:43.019 --> 00:31:49.559
And the argument against Spock is always that he doesn't use his guard or he doesn't trust his emotion and things like that.

484
00:31:49.619 --> 00:31:58.319
But, you know, we see now that logic leads people to all sorts of truly horrifying things as well.

485
00:31:58.380 --> 00:32:08.039
And, you know, people, like the sort of neck beards on Twitter who are expressing alt right opinions, who like to think of themselves as supremely logical.

486
00:32:08.099 --> 00:32:16.200
You know, like you can be logical and just a fucking asshole as well and come to fucking asshole conclusions.

487
00:32:16.259 --> 00:32:18.420
And so I like that.

488
00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:24.599
And I don't think it's the same violation of the Vulcans that, you know, enterprise is.

489
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:35.400
I don't, I don't like the scenes because I, I, I think they're dreary, but I like how it explains why he led into the logic and how he is, how he is in TOS.

490
00:32:35.460 --> 00:32:46.380
I thought, and that's something they can responsibly do with Discovery. is take a look at the past and, you know, later on, we just take a look at the past and generally sort of have a little chore, you know.

491
00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:48.599
Yeah, can you believe they used to do that back then, you know?

492
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:49.740
It's a bit like that.

493
00:32:49.799 --> 00:32:56.819
But I mean, see, this is doing another thing too, where they have a woman playing one of those aliens, like the middle aliens played by a woman.

494
00:32:56.880 --> 00:33:05.819
And the original alien, the main hero alien in the cage is actually played by a woman in makeup and with a man's voice.

495
00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:09.599
She looks like my nanny 4, that woman, the original waggon again.

496
00:33:09.660 --> 00:33:10.200
Yeah.

497
00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:14.160
I wish did I tell you that before. whenever she came on in the credits.

498
00:33:14.220 --> 00:33:15.420
I used to go with Nanny Ford.

499
00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:25.019
And so there is how she looks, you know, in the cage at the end where we see what she's really like. is actually slightly less horrific than it was in the cage.

500
00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:28.799
Yeah, well, because she's all sort of bent over and weirdly misshapen.

501
00:33:28.859 --> 00:33:30.240
It just a close-up of her face.

502
00:33:30.299 --> 00:33:32.819
So, Melissa George, you know, we can't make them look for George.

503
00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:33.720
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

504
00:33:33.779 --> 00:33:35.460
But I mean, the other woman was very pretty as well.

505
00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:42.660
See, but I'm not sure, but then they've got big heads, but if you'd have told me those were the aliens from Talos 7, I'm not sure I'd buy it.

506
00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:45.119
Because they're just they're just not embarrassing enough.

507
00:33:45.180 --> 00:33:58.259
No, do you know what I like about them is that they're slightly translucent, that that, like when you see them in profile, the light, the ambient light shines through their noses a bit.

508
00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:01.259
So they're a little bit translucent and I think that that's interesting.

509
00:34:01.259 --> 00:34:03.839
And like human skin is sort of translucent and stuff like that.

510
00:34:03.900 --> 00:34:07.259
You know, like I like it.

511
00:34:07.319 --> 00:34:09.059
I think it looks interesting.

512
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:13.619
And you get the moving veins thing as well.

513
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:22.619
What I was waiting for in this episode and what they could pull off really well is the, um, you know, the square of grass, the picnic scene.

514
00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:25.019
They could do that now, amazingly.

515
00:34:25.079 --> 00:34:26.280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

516
00:34:26.340 --> 00:34:31.679
These haircuts, they give Burnham a spot back in the day, are a crime against nature.

517
00:34:31.739 --> 00:34:36.000
So when we 1st see Michael, she's got that hair card.

518
00:34:36.059 --> 00:34:37.860
No, no, when we 1st see her.

519
00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:45.719
When we when we see her in flashback joining Discovery 7 years before the opening episode.

520
00:34:45.780 --> 00:34:47.579
Yeah, isn't that great?

521
00:34:47.639 --> 00:34:48.659
That's so good.

522
00:34:49.019 --> 00:34:51.239
It looks like that Tardegrade from series one.

523
00:34:51.300 --> 00:34:52.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

524
00:34:52.559 --> 00:34:56.280
But I think eating Michael Burnham, which I think I love.

525
00:34:56.340 --> 00:34:57.360
Baby Spark.

526
00:34:57.420 --> 00:34:58.739
Tiny baby Spock.

527
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:02.400
Can I ask you a question about Michael Burnham?

528
00:35:02.460 --> 00:35:03.179
Yeah.

529
00:35:03.239 --> 00:35:04.860
Why do people like her?

530
00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:06.119
Because I hear this a lot.

531
00:35:06.179 --> 00:35:08.280
People really object to this character.

532
00:35:08.340 --> 00:35:11.159
Yeah, I think a huge amount of it.

533
00:35:11.219 --> 00:35:16.500
It's the same that is behind people disliking Ray and Jodie Whitaker as the doctor.

534
00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:19.920
I think that the show came back.

535
00:35:19.980 --> 00:35:30.179
The 1st scene has a scene that passes the Bechdell test. and has no white people in it and people are angry at a show that centres a black woman, like, frankly.

536
00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:32.940
I think that that's a huge reason for it.

537
00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:41.639
So you're saying a fair portion of this audience that like this show that's all about tolerance are intolerant.

538
00:35:41.699 --> 00:35:42.360
Oh, yeah.

539
00:35:42.420 --> 00:35:43.139
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

540
00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:43.800
Yeah.

541
00:35:43.860 --> 00:35:45.300
And you see it all the time online.

542
00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:47.039
But all of them are like that.

543
00:35:47.099 --> 00:35:54.119
You know, like how are Star Wars fans all, all, all right when the, the Empire, the fucking Nazis, do you know what I mean?

544
00:35:54.239 --> 00:36:01.980
Like, these are people who are bad at criticism and like space things and aliens and stuff and white people.

545
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:03.360
And so they're angry about that.

546
00:36:03.420 --> 00:36:16.380
I think, though, that I think that they, that, that the weepy Burnham of series 2 is a bit of a problem and that they don't let her have enough fun.

547
00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:21.000
And because terrible things are happening to her all the time, that's a problem.

548
00:36:21.179 --> 00:36:30.300
And I also don't think that people liked the the version of the show that doesn't have the bridge crew as the main characters that that was off putting.

549
00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:33.960
So, you know, it's always the captain that gets top billing.

550
00:36:34.019 --> 00:36:39.539
We're talking over the destruction of all sentient life in the galaxy, by the way. say that was an extraordinary...

551
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:41.519
Yeah, actually impressive.

552
00:36:41.579 --> 00:36:48.179
A bit where it was like a flower spitting out pollen where the things got all the ships come out of the other ship.

553
00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:49.199
That was amazing.

554
00:36:49.260 --> 00:36:51.900
And that's the sort of thing Discovery can do.

555
00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:55.079
No one else. and they look like nothing that we've ever seen on Star Trek before.

556
00:36:55.139 --> 00:36:56.820
They don't look like Borg or anything like that.

557
00:36:56.880 --> 00:36:59.820
They look like sort of little weird lamprey flower things.

558
00:36:59.880 --> 00:37:02.760
I remember in that true episode that we did that.

559
00:37:02.820 --> 00:37:10.619
Forget me not, where we panned across a planet, and it was just a location shop, and they've enhanced it with dancing flowers and insects and all that.

560
00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:13.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

561
00:37:13.260 --> 00:37:15.840
Going back to what you were saying about having a woman in the lead role.

562
00:37:15.900 --> 00:37:17.579
It's the same with Janeway as well.

563
00:37:17.639 --> 00:37:23.519
And it's definitely the same with Jodie Whisker's doctor, is they always have to be incredible because there is an audience there.

564
00:37:23.579 --> 00:37:25.559
The 2nd they falter, like she does in this season.

565
00:37:25.619 --> 00:37:26.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

566
00:37:26.699 --> 00:37:30.360
They're there and they leap on it and say, well, see, we told you, this wasn't going to work.

567
00:37:30.420 --> 00:37:31.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

568
00:37:31.559 --> 00:37:38.159
And it's also like there's a sort of group of fans who, when a character is presented as being supremely confident.

569
00:37:38.219 --> 00:37:41.400
If that's a man, like confident and competent.

570
00:37:41.460 --> 00:37:43.019
If that's a man, that's fine.

571
00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:52.019
So Luke Skywalker, you know, didn't know that he had the force, but suddenly he's, you know, destroying space station single-handedly at the end of the film.

572
00:37:52.139 --> 00:38:05.699
When Ray does the same thing in Force Awakens, they say that's unrealistic and she's a Mary Sue and all of those sorts of just crappy poor excuses for criticism, I think.

573
00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:08.099
We've still got a long way to go, haven't we?

574
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:09.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

575
00:38:09.900 --> 00:38:17.519
What I do like, though, is the inverse of that is I love how the men are shown to feel in this show.

576
00:38:17.579 --> 00:38:24.059
So this sequence here is a great example of that between Culbert and I forget his name, Stamets.

577
00:38:24.119 --> 00:38:24.539
Yeah.

578
00:38:25.019 --> 00:38:31.380
Yeah, this would almost be unthinkable at any point in Star Trek before this.

579
00:38:31.440 --> 00:38:33.000
Oh yeah, yeah.

580
00:38:33.059 --> 00:38:33.599
Yeah.

581
00:38:33.659 --> 00:38:35.940
And and like...

582
00:38:35.940 --> 00:38:40.860
Like Paul, like this is like nothing anyone's ever experienced.

583
00:38:40.920 --> 00:38:41.639
Do you know what I mean?

584
00:38:41.699 --> 00:38:44.760
Maybe it's happened to people where they thought someone was dead and they come back.

585
00:38:44.820 --> 00:38:46.500
Like maybe that's a thing that happens.

586
00:38:46.559 --> 00:38:49.980
It doesn't sound very plausible, but it must happen sometimes.

587
00:38:50.039 --> 00:38:52.800
But this, do you know what I mean?

588
00:38:52.860 --> 00:39:04.260
Like he thinks that this huge loss, this worst thing that ever happened to him has stopped, but it hasn't, you know, that they're not together, like.

589
00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:09.179
Oh, but that line he has about, why are you so angry with me?

590
00:39:09.239 --> 00:39:10.199
Yeah, yeah.

591
00:39:10.260 --> 00:39:11.400
That's a good question.

592
00:39:11.460 --> 00:39:14.039
That's a good question, but he doesn't know either.

593
00:39:14.099 --> 00:39:15.179
Like, he doesn't know either.

594
00:39:15.300 --> 00:39:20.579
And it doesn't even get better after he confronts Tyler, does it?

595
00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:24.300
No, and I think that's why they play out. while.

596
00:39:24.360 --> 00:39:24.719
Yeah.

597
00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:25.139
Yeah.

598
00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:26.400
You are right.

599
00:39:26.460 --> 00:39:26.940
The lighting.

600
00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:27.659
Look at the light in here.

601
00:39:27.719 --> 00:39:29.280
It's beautiful, isn't it?

602
00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:30.719
Yeah.

603
00:39:30.780 --> 00:39:34.199
A few times they bother to do that in 90s trek.

604
00:39:34.260 --> 00:39:35.460
It's it's great.

605
00:39:35.579 --> 00:39:39.119
It's so annoying that they didn't go, you know, that really works.

606
00:39:39.179 --> 00:39:52.199
Well, when they do it, when they do it in generations and we see 10 forward lit by the light of a star outside and you just think, wow, that looks incredible. everyone was confused as to why we weren't on the Enterprise anymore.

607
00:39:52.380 --> 00:39:54.420
Where's this sweat?

608
00:39:54.599 --> 00:39:57.000
With a light coming in the windows.

609
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:01.739
Do you think...

610
00:40:01.739 --> 00:40:12.300
If this is kind of a love letter to the cage, is there a problem that there's all this other stuff going on that we're sort of pulled away from it all the time?

611
00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:15.900
No, because I think there's probably not enough there.

612
00:40:16.019 --> 00:40:22.380
I just think, you know, there's a lot of balls in the air, just like there were the previous year.

613
00:40:22.440 --> 00:40:29.219
I mean, part of the fun of the previous year, I thought, was the mystery of who Volk was or who Ash was.

614
00:40:29.340 --> 00:40:30.179
Do you know what I mean?

615
00:40:30.239 --> 00:40:36.059
And they even created a fake IMDb profile for Vogue. and stuff.

616
00:40:36.119 --> 00:40:37.980
And, you know...

617
00:40:38.099 --> 00:40:39.420
They knew how to treat their audience.

618
00:40:40.199 --> 00:40:41.340
Who's law car?

619
00:40:41.340 --> 00:40:52.619
And all of that stuff, which was not the sort of thing that we'd ever had like big plot twists in Star Trek before, like maybe Cesca. you know, in Voyager, but otherwise we hadn't had it.

620
00:40:52.679 --> 00:40:53.460
DS9?

621
00:40:53.460 --> 00:40:56.400
Yeah, but we had long-term mysteries in the same way.

622
00:40:56.460 --> 00:41:01.199
It was just like this character that we'd seen in the background a bit now we discover they're evil.

623
00:41:01.260 --> 00:41:03.960
Like this was a little bit more central to the show.

624
00:41:04.019 --> 00:41:11.820
The local one was great because we kept having scenes of him in a dark room, sort of looking dancing after he'd been, you know, the good captain in there.

625
00:41:11.880 --> 00:41:13.860
What is going on with this guy?

626
00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:25.500
Well, like, Discovery's quite a horrible place, I think, in that 1st season where they're torturing the Tartar grade, and, you know, everyone's horrible to Michael, like, and Paul's a prick and all that.

627
00:41:25.559 --> 00:41:28.920
You almost put your finger on why I wasn't keen.

628
00:41:29.039 --> 00:41:33.119
I'm so used to these ensemble show as well, everyone's pallid.

629
00:41:33.179 --> 00:41:37.619
Everything's nice and everyone loves one and all. you know, there was no dreadful banter.

630
00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:38.639
Everyone's talking about people.

631
00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:41.820
Well, like Strange New Worlds is like that.

632
00:41:41.880 --> 00:41:45.360
It's a lovely cast of people who we love and like hanging out with.

633
00:41:45.420 --> 00:41:47.219
And this show develops into that.

634
00:41:47.579 --> 00:41:48.960
Yeah.

635
00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:51.539
I can remember the beard, the moment.

636
00:41:54.599 --> 00:41:55.500
There you go.

637
00:41:55.559 --> 00:41:57.599
I mean, look at this cave set.

638
00:41:57.659 --> 00:42:02.880
This is like starkly lit and, you know, dramatically lit.

639
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:04.019
But you're right.

640
00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:05.519
It's all very sombre, isn't it?

641
00:42:05.579 --> 00:42:06.480
Yeah, yeah.

642
00:42:06.539 --> 00:42:07.320
Yeah, yeah.

643
00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:10.860
I thought we were going to be.

644
00:42:10.920 --> 00:42:18.960
I thought we were going to be having fun with the aliens and they were going to be putting visions in their heads and, you know, sending them on picnics, that kind of thing.

645
00:42:19.679 --> 00:42:23.880
We did get to see baby Michael Chase by a monster. was pretty cool.

646
00:42:24.900 --> 00:42:29.159
So we're getting the angel thing.

647
00:42:29.219 --> 00:42:46.079
Apparently in a latest Star Trek episode or an earlier Star Trek episode, uh, Spock says he's never mind mind melded with a human before, but clearly he does that here with Michael's mother through the um, Blue Angel, the Red Angel suit.

648
00:42:46.139 --> 00:42:48.420
But even then he says he doesn't get that much from her.

649
00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:49.260
I think.

650
00:42:49.380 --> 00:43:00.659
Well, one thing that sticks with me from this whole red angel thing is that very sort of foreboding image of the suit with the red light behind it.

651
00:43:00.719 --> 00:43:06.900
But I don't remember anything beyond that apart from a load of weepy scenes between Michael and her mum and...

652
00:43:06.900 --> 00:43:07.380
Yeah, yeah.

653
00:43:07.380 --> 00:43:10.079
Well, that sort of just skipped out of my head.

654
00:43:10.199 --> 00:43:23.400
And there's a very much more low-key reunion in series three, remember, when Michael meets her mother again and she's become one of the Romulan sincerity nuns.

655
00:43:23.579 --> 00:43:33.360
And, uh, you know, we're sort of on Navarre and stuff and we don't have all of that crap, like it's all a little bit less kind of overwrought.

656
00:43:34.139 --> 00:43:38.340
Melissa George has the most incredible lips, doesn't she?

657
00:43:38.400 --> 00:43:39.300
Yeah, doesn't she?

658
00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:39.900
She's stunning.

659
00:43:39.960 --> 00:43:41.280
She was born to pow.

660
00:43:41.400 --> 00:43:42.300
Yeah.

661
00:43:42.360 --> 00:43:42.960
Yeah.

662
00:43:43.079 --> 00:43:46.019
No, she's a good version of Vina, I think.

663
00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:49.920
So what's happening here?

664
00:43:49.980 --> 00:43:53.099
Spock is in an asylum, by all accounts.

665
00:43:53.159 --> 00:43:54.960
It looks a bit like that, bit in DS9.

666
00:43:55.139 --> 00:43:57.179
Remember when Cisco was writing all over the walls?

667
00:43:57.239 --> 00:44:07.139
Yeah, so we've actually seen video of this that ends with spot killing the 3 people who come in and that's faked, I think, by section 31.

668
00:44:07.380 --> 00:44:15.179
And so the whole 1st half of this season is where's Spock when Spock going to join us and that's one of the sort of ongoing things.

669
00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:16.199
Spock's gone missing.

670
00:44:16.260 --> 00:44:17.519
Look at the hot guy on the ride.

671
00:44:17.579 --> 00:44:20.579
The unfortunate thing about bringing him in though.

672
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:28.440
I remember watching this and preferring being with Spock and Pike than I did with the Discovery crew because they were so well done.

673
00:44:28.500 --> 00:44:29.280
Both of them.

674
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:31.980
What a surprise they've had their own...

675
00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:32.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

676
00:44:32.639 --> 00:44:33.659
Well, Una as well.

677
00:44:33.719 --> 00:44:40.739
Do you remember there's a scene where Una's on discovery, where number one's on discovery, eating a burger and stuff and she's just as cool as anything.

678
00:44:40.860 --> 00:44:42.840
She was around, was she?

679
00:44:42.900 --> 00:44:43.739
I don't seem to remember.

680
00:44:43.739 --> 00:44:44.039
No.

681
00:44:44.039 --> 00:44:52.380
But one of the short tracks is Spock's 1st day on board the Enterprise and her meeting Una, and that's really fun.

682
00:44:52.440 --> 00:44:55.920
I've got to say just for handing us hotspock.

683
00:44:55.980 --> 00:44:57.780
Discovery has singlehandedly.

684
00:44:57.840 --> 00:45:00.659
Yeah, but it's earnest.

685
00:45:00.659 --> 00:45:01.980
Hey, that's justified.

686
00:45:02.039 --> 00:45:04.860
Well, you know, launching Strange New Worlds.

687
00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:08.219
Like, I think Strangely Worlds is a much more fun version of Star Trek than this.

688
00:45:08.340 --> 00:45:14.099
And this is trying to be more sort of serious and complicated, which, you know, is worth a try.

689
00:45:14.159 --> 00:45:16.019
And I'd like to see it try again.

690
00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:19.559
I mean, they try it with Picard, I think, with varying degrees of success as well.

691
00:45:19.739 --> 00:45:22.619
Um, Yeah.

692
00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:24.059
Yeah, it's weird, isn't it?

693
00:45:24.119 --> 00:45:34.199
Because I think Picard and Discovery are the 2 most interesting, the most substantial of the new Kurtzman shows and they're my 2 least favourites.

694
00:45:34.260 --> 00:45:34.860
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

695
00:45:34.860 --> 00:45:37.739
So maybe I just like Star Trek 3 be a big disposable.

696
00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:38.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

697
00:45:38.820 --> 00:45:54.719
Though I think I think that having a suite of shows that all is trying to do different things in a way that we did in the 90s where everything, you know, D Space 9 is its own thing and does different things, but they all, they're all of a look and they're all set in the same time period and all of that sort of thing.

698
00:45:54.780 --> 00:45:58.619
Like having a suite of shows that's all vastly different is more interesting, I think.

699
00:45:58.679 --> 00:46:06.719
Fast coming to the conclusion, talking with you, that DS9 is actually the biggest comic or cartoon starship we ever got.

700
00:46:06.840 --> 00:46:09.360
Yeah, you know, the top characters.

701
00:46:09.420 --> 00:46:10.860
Yeah, yeah.

702
00:46:10.920 --> 00:46:12.119
Well, it's a sitcom.

703
00:46:12.179 --> 00:46:19.920
Those are sitcom characters that behave in sort of predictable ways that are fun to watch for that reason and because you can violate expectations with them as well.

704
00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:28.199
Whereas you couldn't do that with a character on, you know, and, you know, Star Trek, the Next Generation, because they're all just their jobs.

705
00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:31.860
I didn't realise this was the turbo lift this scene.

706
00:46:31.980 --> 00:46:33.360
It's like, what room's he in?

707
00:46:33.420 --> 00:46:42.119
Talk with this old base. sort of long form season storytelling is if you're not on board with that season story, you're in a lot of trouble.

708
00:46:42.360 --> 00:46:46.679
Yeah, although different episodes can be more successful than others.

709
00:46:46.739 --> 00:46:56.940
Part of the problem with our show is that we're doing random episodes and this is not something that this version of Star Trek works particularly well with...

710
00:46:56.940 --> 00:47:01.739
USTP is almost entirely perfect with 90s trek, isn't it?

711
00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:03.179
standalone episode.

712
00:47:03.179 --> 00:47:04.320
No consequences.

713
00:47:04.380 --> 00:47:06.119
It doesn't matter what order you watch it in.

714
00:47:06.300 --> 00:47:09.719
They're all standalone and they're basically either good or bad.

715
00:47:09.780 --> 00:47:12.119
Whereas I'm fine with these Kurtzman episodes.

716
00:47:12.179 --> 00:47:12.539
Yeah.

717
00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:18.539
There's not really... out and out classics and there's not really out and out duds.

718
00:47:18.599 --> 00:47:21.659
There's good and bad in all the extra...

719
00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:23.820
Except strange new worlds.

720
00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:25.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

721
00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:27.300
Oh, now this, right.

722
00:47:27.360 --> 00:47:32.400
What I think is really interesting here. is like they just decide.

723
00:47:32.460 --> 00:47:36.659
So, Saru says this has to be allowed to play out.

724
00:47:36.780 --> 00:47:41.039
And you kind of think, no, no, how is that being permitted?

725
00:47:41.099 --> 00:47:42.119
How are we not stopping it?

726
00:47:42.179 --> 00:47:46.739
And like, I think it's, I actually think it's okay.

727
00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:49.019
I think, you know, yes, let them do this.

728
00:47:49.079 --> 00:47:51.179
What possible rules can there be about this?

729
00:47:51.239 --> 00:47:57.059
You know, and we know that Ash is a good man and doesn't want to hurt Hugh.

730
00:47:57.059 --> 00:48:04.920
And we know, you know, like, like, look, they're holding one another and they rest against one another when they're tired.

731
00:48:04.980 --> 00:48:08.579
You know, like it's, and it doesn't work.

732
00:48:08.639 --> 00:48:09.480
That's the thing.

733
00:48:09.539 --> 00:48:11.280
He finds that it doesn't satisfy him.

734
00:48:11.400 --> 00:48:13.980
It doesn't help to have beaten, look at that.

735
00:48:14.039 --> 00:48:14.639
Look at that.

736
00:48:14.699 --> 00:48:18.300
They're supporting one another. holding one another up.

737
00:48:18.360 --> 00:48:21.300
And this, I don't even know who I am anymore.

738
00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:24.900
And he replies, who do you think you're talking to?

739
00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:25.980
It's me.

740
00:48:26.039 --> 00:48:27.000
I was vogue.

741
00:48:27.059 --> 00:48:28.559
You know, I don't know who I am either.

742
00:48:28.619 --> 00:48:33.719
It's, you know, and I, I, oh, look, doesn't he look beautiful with his hair?

743
00:48:33.780 --> 00:48:37.619
I did want to join you in that conversation there, but I was just mesmerised by the pair of them.

744
00:48:37.739 --> 00:48:44.460
What it actually reminded me of was the scene I told you about in Voyager, where Chakotay slugs someone in the mess hole.

745
00:48:44.519 --> 00:48:45.420
Yeah.

746
00:48:45.420 --> 00:48:51.420
And it's just in no way as effective as that because Voyager rejected that sort of conflict, didn't it?

747
00:48:51.480 --> 00:48:52.980
Look at this scene.

748
00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:56.639
You allowed the fight to proceed.

749
00:48:56.639 --> 00:48:59.159
And he says, yes, you know, we needed the catharsis.

750
00:48:59.159 --> 00:49:03.420
And then and then Pike says it's not by the book.

751
00:49:03.420 --> 00:49:16.380
And then he goes, oh, the Starfleet manual offers no regulatory guidelines for interactions between humans with Klingons grafted onto their bones. you know, like this is an absurd situation and I'm not going to be by the book and he's being silly.

752
00:49:16.440 --> 00:49:19.019
Like the way he delivers the line is hilarious.

753
00:49:19.079 --> 00:49:24.960
I'm sorry, all I could notice was the fact that the camera was spinning for no reason.

754
00:49:25.019 --> 00:49:27.900
It was just turning for no reason.

755
00:49:27.960 --> 00:49:30.179
I don't know why.

756
00:49:30.179 --> 00:49:35.760
I feel as if it's trying to tell me that something is occurring in the story when the camera is moving like that, but it's not.

757
00:49:35.820 --> 00:49:36.840
They're just in the lift.

758
00:49:37.440 --> 00:49:40.019
I think it tries too hard sometimes.

759
00:49:40.079 --> 00:49:41.099
It's visual interest.

760
00:49:41.159 --> 00:49:43.800
No, no, no, I think I think visual distraction.

761
00:49:44.639 --> 00:49:55.619
But we're reacting against a show that was very, very boringly directed on the whole or a whole suite of shows that were boringly directed.

762
00:49:56.159 --> 00:50:00.659
And, you know, we're also doing this in the context of the film.

763
00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:07.199
So I think it'd be interesting for us to do like a modern Star Trek film, one of the, you know, film.

764
00:50:07.260 --> 00:50:13.079
But I think they've learned from this as well, because it's strangely wells is not directed like this at all.

765
00:50:13.139 --> 00:50:15.360
They do visually interesting things.

766
00:50:15.420 --> 00:50:19.139
They don't do all this weird camera work for no reason whatsoever.

767
00:50:19.199 --> 00:50:20.699
So they're learning.

768
00:50:20.760 --> 00:50:22.320
Doesn't Frekes do it?

769
00:50:22.380 --> 00:50:23.460
I'm sure Frank still does it.

770
00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:25.619
I'll put one on.

771
00:50:25.679 --> 00:50:27.059
Any excuse to watch that show.

772
00:50:27.420 --> 00:50:30.659
It's got to be chosen soon on the random line.

773
00:50:30.719 --> 00:50:38.940
I don't care how few episodes we've got to watch Oh yeah, so we needed this scene between Pike and Vina, didn't we?

774
00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:40.500
the big love story from the cage.

775
00:50:40.559 --> 00:50:41.880
Yeah, yeah.

776
00:50:41.940 --> 00:50:49.920
Yeah, and I can't really quite remember because I know, so she ends up with a fake pike at the end of the cage.

777
00:50:49.980 --> 00:50:50.880
Is that right?

778
00:50:51.239 --> 00:50:56.400
And then we cut it together a bit differently for the menagerie part two.

779
00:50:56.400 --> 00:51:06.599
And so she's being led off by the real pike, but it's the same shot from the cage and it's, no, yeah, because the real pike's then been restored.

780
00:51:06.659 --> 00:51:17.039
And the thing is, they can give us sort of all this romantic lighting and frame them in silhouette on all of this and make it look like they were, but it's nowhere near as hot as that previous scene in the mess hole.

781
00:51:17.099 --> 00:51:17.820
No, that's true.

782
00:51:17.880 --> 00:51:23.699
But that bit where they 2 came away from each other, I was like, they're going to fuck any man any 2nd now.

783
00:51:24.119 --> 00:51:44.159
So, what I also like, and it's something that they, that's the right decision, that they, they could so easily have got wrong, which is finding a way to get out of this not to happen.

784
00:51:44.280 --> 00:51:57.179
Like, so what's going to happen to Pikes, that he'll be killed in a horrible accident and reduce to this sort of utterly terrifying existence from which is essentially...

785
00:51:57.239 --> 00:51:57.840
Yeah, yeah.

786
00:51:57.900 --> 00:51:59.519
So but it, yes.

787
00:51:59.579 --> 00:52:02.760
In fact, what Strange New Worlds doesn't try and get out of it.

788
00:52:02.820 --> 00:52:04.139
That's what I think is happening.

789
00:52:04.199 --> 00:52:09.659
The reason that we're doing this is the one thing we know about pike is what happens to him in the menagerie.

790
00:52:09.719 --> 00:52:16.380
You know, the cage wasn't originally part of the show's run, and I don't think anyone just saw it as a show until much, much later.

791
00:52:16.500 --> 00:52:17.219
Yeah.

792
00:52:17.219 --> 00:52:23.039
And so the one thing we know about Pike is he ends up in that chair.

793
00:52:23.099 --> 00:52:29.159
Yeah. and just and Una even says, you know, time might not be fixed.

794
00:52:29.219 --> 00:52:37.019
You don't know how this is going to end, and the final episode of series one of Strange New Worlds absolutely says there's no way out of this for Pike.

795
00:52:37.079 --> 00:52:45.900
And you know, that there is something comforting and safe about watching that show kind of knowing where those characters are all going to end up.

796
00:52:45.960 --> 00:52:47.159
I can't explain it.

797
00:52:47.219 --> 00:52:48.059
It is.

798
00:52:48.179 --> 00:52:54.000
Like they can put them in danger, things like, well, we kind of know Spock's going to go on to be on the Enterprise, Sojahura.

799
00:52:54.059 --> 00:52:57.119
So number one, I quite like that.

800
00:52:57.179 --> 00:52:59.579
You'd think that would be the death of a series, wouldn't you?

801
00:52:59.639 --> 00:53:11.099
Well, in fact, one of the fun things about those old scientists was that at that point, Spock and Christina in a relationship.

802
00:53:11.460 --> 00:53:19.079
And of course it can't go anywhere because we know what Spock ends up being like and what ends up happening to him.

803
00:53:19.139 --> 00:53:23.940
But that had not really occurred to me because they'd been invested in it in the context of the show.

804
00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:31.559
And so you have a Star Trek fan in Boheemler coming along to point out that the relationship doesn't go anywhere because of course it can't.

805
00:53:31.679 --> 00:53:33.780
It's the best episode ever.

806
00:53:33.840 --> 00:53:39.059
But it means they get to have fun with that continuity as well, to suggest, you know, are they going to change this?

807
00:53:39.119 --> 00:53:44.400
Because we know that in a mock time, you know, he's fighting over that woman on the planet.

808
00:53:44.940 --> 00:53:52.199
But also as well, I just think there's a great feeling of we're going to go on a hell of an adventure before we get to that point.

809
00:53:52.260 --> 00:53:53.760
Let's go on a rise, you know?

810
00:53:53.820 --> 00:53:54.780
that's that's fun.

811
00:53:54.900 --> 00:53:55.920
I think so too.

812
00:53:56.099 --> 00:54:04.860
I mean, I like how kind of difficult the difficult relationship this show has with continuity just generally in these 1st 2 seasons.

813
00:54:04.920 --> 00:54:07.199
What were those things just lying in there then?

814
00:54:07.260 --> 00:54:08.639
They're cleaning up.

815
00:54:08.699 --> 00:54:10.800
They're cleaning up the mass up brawl.

816
00:54:10.860 --> 00:54:13.619
Did you see me staring at the screen like an old man?

817
00:54:15.780 --> 00:54:19.380
I'm just too old to watch Discovery, I think.

818
00:54:19.380 --> 00:54:21.059
Do you remember the dots as well?

819
00:54:21.119 --> 00:54:22.559
The little the little dots?

820
00:54:22.619 --> 00:54:23.699
Yeah.

821
00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:24.659
Yeah.

822
00:54:24.719 --> 00:54:29.699
In that, yeah, that late series 3 episode we watched for USTP.

823
00:54:29.760 --> 00:54:35.880
What's great about this is entirely rejecting, you know, our standard TNG.

824
00:54:35.940 --> 00:54:41.280
Dr. Crusher has repaired everyone with her usual skill because there is an episode where Troy is killed.

825
00:54:41.340 --> 00:54:47.639
And then they go, look, we've got 11 minutes of her being dead and then I have to bring her back and then she's in the next scene.

826
00:54:47.699 --> 00:54:49.980
She goes, oh, so I sleep on something like that.

827
00:54:50.039 --> 00:54:51.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah. right.

828
00:54:51.300 --> 00:54:55.019
Which is what Genesis is making fun of in that final saying.

829
00:54:58.679 --> 00:55:01.619
Mark me, that's it, that long shot.

830
00:55:01.679 --> 00:55:03.599
That's set with the polished floor and the lighting.

831
00:55:03.659 --> 00:55:04.739
It's beautiful isn't it?

832
00:55:04.800 --> 00:55:06.840
Look, reflective surfaces.

833
00:55:07.139 --> 00:55:09.539
Wow, you do love them.

834
00:55:11.460 --> 00:55:13.440
Yeah, and you're right.

835
00:55:13.500 --> 00:55:22.679
I think there is a portion of the audience I just cannot handle that this bridge crew, these extraneous characters, and some of them do, like, Detma, is it?

836
00:55:22.739 --> 00:55:25.500
She does get some stuff to do later on down the line.

837
00:55:25.559 --> 00:55:26.820
And OWO does as well.

838
00:55:26.880 --> 00:55:38.639
In fact, one of the things that Pike does is he has a scene where he makes all of these people, like Bryson Reese and Dettman and Oho all say their names so that the viewers at home have some hope of knowing who they are.

839
00:55:38.699 --> 00:55:43.679
Whereas really they're just scenery in series one and very pretty scenery too.

840
00:55:43.739 --> 00:55:48.900
I can't remember what episode you said it on, but when you were talking about the spinoffs of TNG.

841
00:55:48.960 --> 00:55:52.380
Oh, let's do a space station, but essentially all the same roles.

842
00:55:52.440 --> 00:55:55.320
Then let's do another spaceship, just in the last week.

843
00:55:55.380 --> 00:56:01.619
And then let's do another spaceship, but just in the past, with all the same roles, the doctor, the commander, da da.

844
00:56:01.679 --> 00:56:04.199
This is the 1st time we've broken out of that mould.

845
00:56:04.260 --> 00:56:04.559
Yeah.

846
00:56:04.619 --> 00:56:05.880
And I really liked that.

847
00:56:05.940 --> 00:56:07.260
Like, I was really here for it.

848
00:56:07.320 --> 00:56:16.260
And, um, you know, I liked... understand why people got programmed that that is Star Trek, sort of pushing against this and going, yeah, but what is this?

849
00:56:16.320 --> 00:56:19.019
No one's wiped their old tapes.

850
00:56:19.079 --> 00:56:23.159
You know, you can just go and watch the same old thing if that's what you really want.

851
00:56:23.219 --> 00:56:26.940
What I want Star Trek to do is something that I haven't seen before.

852
00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:29.579
Except when you watch Strange New World.

853
00:56:29.639 --> 00:56:31.619
So that we're happy for them to do TOS.

854
00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:33.239
Well, yeah, but they do it so well.

855
00:56:34.619 --> 00:56:38.099
Well, it means we can have our cake and eat it, can't we?

856
00:56:38.159 --> 00:56:39.000
Yeah, exactly.

857
00:56:39.059 --> 00:56:41.400
These shows forging ahead, doing something bold.

858
00:56:41.460 --> 00:56:43.079
We've got strange new worlds.

859
00:56:43.139 --> 00:56:44.639
See that woman there?

860
00:56:44.699 --> 00:56:46.019
Who's a bar?

861
00:56:46.079 --> 00:56:46.380
Barzan?

862
00:56:46.440 --> 00:56:47.460
Hmm?

863
00:56:47.460 --> 00:56:49.199
That she's a barzan?

864
00:56:49.260 --> 00:56:50.099
Where?

865
00:56:50.159 --> 00:56:51.119
I've missed her.

866
00:56:51.179 --> 00:56:51.420
Sorry.

867
00:56:51.480 --> 00:56:53.099
There she is in the ride of that shot.

868
00:56:53.219 --> 00:56:54.119
Just have a look.

869
00:56:54.179 --> 00:56:55.139
She's in this scene.

870
00:56:55.199 --> 00:56:58.860
She's got long hair, sort of slightly dark skin.

871
00:56:58.980 --> 00:57:03.300
The character's name is Narn.

872
00:57:03.360 --> 00:57:05.639
It's the woman that he just passed the thing to.

873
00:57:05.699 --> 00:57:09.420
And she's got those things there and she's one of the aliens who are in the price.

874
00:57:10.139 --> 00:57:19.920
Ah, I do question, whether you know me at all, you know, when you ask me, notice one of the aliens when Pike and Tyler are on camera.

875
00:57:19.980 --> 00:57:20.400
That's true.

876
00:57:20.460 --> 00:57:22.380
Oh, plus Saru. very tall.

877
00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:23.519
And this caught guy at the back.

878
00:57:23.579 --> 00:57:25.260
I don't know who that is, but he's very pretty.

879
00:57:25.320 --> 00:57:26.340
Bryce, the black guy.

880
00:57:26.880 --> 00:57:30.239
I feel like Saru's the odd man out really, isn't he?

881
00:57:30.300 --> 00:57:32.940
He's the only sort of person in this show that...

882
00:57:32.940 --> 00:57:36.599
He's the only straight white guy, but he may not be...

883
00:57:36.659 --> 00:57:38.519
Well, no, we don't know, do we?

884
00:57:39.840 --> 00:57:43.079
Well, we've got a straight white guy, it's the captain.

885
00:57:43.139 --> 00:57:45.300
That is such a striking look, that robot.

886
00:57:45.420 --> 00:57:46.739
Yeah, yeah.

887
00:57:47.519 --> 00:57:49.920
And look, it's her.

888
00:57:50.039 --> 00:57:51.420
It's not Tyler at all.

889
00:57:51.480 --> 00:57:51.900
See?

890
00:57:54.960 --> 00:57:56.340
Where are we now?

891
00:57:56.400 --> 00:57:57.300
Back on Talos.

892
00:57:57.360 --> 00:57:58.559
Is it Channel 7?

893
00:57:58.619 --> 00:58:00.300
Tell us four.

894
00:58:00.360 --> 00:58:01.139
Whoops.

895
00:58:01.739 --> 00:58:05.219
We lost our audience in the 1st 5 minutes.

896
00:58:05.219 --> 00:58:08.039
It's like, what do these people know about Star Trek?

897
00:58:08.460 --> 00:58:10.440
Nothing until?

898
00:58:11.579 --> 00:58:15.300
Well, it'd be awfully dull if we agreed all the time as well, wouldn't it?

899
00:58:15.360 --> 00:58:16.739
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

900
00:58:16.800 --> 00:58:17.519
Yeah, yeah.

901
00:58:17.579 --> 00:58:18.599
I think so.

902
00:58:19.500 --> 00:58:23.159
It's a Sanequa, Melissa George Pout off here.

903
00:58:23.219 --> 00:58:24.719
Yeah, isn't it?

904
00:58:24.780 --> 00:58:31.739
So, so we are going to see this scene, and I think, sorry, sorry to interrupt, but Ethan Peck's getting in on it as well.

905
00:58:31.800 --> 00:58:32.519
I know.

906
00:58:32.519 --> 00:58:34.440
My money is on here.

907
00:58:34.500 --> 00:58:35.519
Sorry, you were saying.

908
00:58:35.820 --> 00:58:47.880
Well, so we are going to see this backstory, and I think that the backstory scene is a little bit obvious and a little bit rightly.

909
00:58:47.940 --> 00:58:50.760
Like, I think it's the sort of thing that you would have imagined.

910
00:58:50.820 --> 00:58:52.860
So part of the backstory here.

911
00:58:52.920 --> 00:59:05.460
Remember, is that the school that Michael, the learning centre that Michael attended as a child was bombed by, was it by logic separatists?

912
00:59:05.519 --> 00:59:14.820
And so, so, and you know, we see a scene where Sarek, uh, you know, is is going to be, you know, killed by logic separatists and stuff like that.

913
00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:19.440
So they're just kind of white Vulcan supremacists, aren't they?

914
00:59:19.500 --> 00:59:21.300
Um, this kid.

915
00:59:21.420 --> 00:59:24.599
Why they've got this little cherubic, cute kid?

916
00:59:24.659 --> 00:59:26.400
It's too little.

917
00:59:26.460 --> 00:59:27.780
He's too little.

918
00:59:27.840 --> 00:59:29.639
He's not serious enough to be spogged.

919
00:59:29.699 --> 00:59:32.880
He's got Alexander back all over him.

920
00:59:32.940 --> 00:59:39.179
But I think what the good thing that they do is just swapping the adult act is in.

921
00:59:40.079 --> 00:59:41.760
Yeah, you know.

922
00:59:41.820 --> 00:59:49.800
Yeah, I think that and that's a bit more interesting, I think, because they're obviously better actors and it makes it weird.

923
00:59:49.860 --> 00:59:51.179
You know, like because.

924
00:59:51.300 --> 00:59:57.000
It's just like one of those scenes, though, on any modern drama where they have 2 people in a therapy room and say shout at each other.

925
00:59:57.059 --> 00:59:57.360
Go on.

926
00:59:57.420 --> 00:59:59.400
Get your feelings out.

927
01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:02.940
They're doing it for space reasons, though.

928
01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:06.719
I like, you'll always be cold and distant like a moon somewhere.

929
01:00:06.780 --> 01:00:09.539
I think it's a very rightly line.

930
01:00:09.719 --> 01:00:13.800
But there's, I like like a moon somewhere for some reason.

931
01:00:13.860 --> 01:00:15.000
It's such a strange thing.

932
01:00:15.059 --> 01:00:21.840
And I think there might be a callback to it later because obviously she's got to say goodbye to him at the end of this series.

933
01:00:22.079 --> 01:00:28.679
Rusty old Joe Ford is trying very hard as well to see who's talking through the lens flare as well.

934
01:00:28.739 --> 01:00:30.000
So I'm having a bit of trouble there.

935
01:00:30.059 --> 01:00:40.619
Yeah, I like how they give adult Michael the line, you weird little half breed, and then you see adult Spock reacting to it by crying.

936
01:00:40.679 --> 01:00:42.239
You know, I think that's much better.

937
01:00:42.300 --> 01:00:43.380
I think that's true.

938
01:00:43.440 --> 01:00:43.920
That is right.

939
01:00:43.980 --> 01:00:49.739
I was pretty shocked by this sort of intolerance, but you and me have done a ton of 90s training.

940
01:00:49.800 --> 01:00:52.800
We sound so much racism in there from the characters as we've gone along.

941
01:00:53.519 --> 01:00:56.820
It's not a shock, you know, like people behave this way.

942
01:00:56.880 --> 01:00:58.199
No.

943
01:00:58.260 --> 01:00:59.159
Yeah.

944
01:00:59.159 --> 01:01:00.840
Roddenbury would be appalled though.

945
01:01:00.900 --> 01:01:03.659
I mean, just 2 people having an argument would be appalled.

946
01:01:03.719 --> 01:01:05.639
Well, yeah, and I think that's a shame.

947
01:01:05.699 --> 01:01:11.280
But, I mean, in original Star Trek, there's plenty of racism directed against Spark.

948
01:01:11.340 --> 01:01:12.480
Oh, loads.

949
01:01:12.539 --> 01:01:12.840
Yeah.

950
01:01:12.900 --> 01:01:15.780
And by McCoy very frequently too.

951
01:01:15.840 --> 01:01:23.519
And could I just, like, I've mentioned how hot he is, but can't, for Peck to take on this role?

952
01:01:23.639 --> 01:01:29.280
And so win everybody over because I've not heard a bad word about his performance.

953
01:01:29.340 --> 01:01:31.139
Like bravo.

954
01:01:31.199 --> 01:01:36.239
Yeah, I think Zachary Quinto did a pretty good job in the films.

955
01:01:36.300 --> 01:01:39.179
That picture us all the other day of the 2 of them together.

956
01:01:39.300 --> 01:01:42.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah. great.

957
01:01:44.159 --> 01:01:49.079
I was like, yeah, if you put Nemo in there as well, they've all got a certain look in the eye.

958
01:01:49.800 --> 01:01:50.340
Yeah.

959
01:01:50.400 --> 01:01:57.539
But I think that like they give Peck fun, cute things to do, which is kind of nice.

960
01:01:57.599 --> 01:02:05.099
And having him have this emotional crisis sort of early on, you know, over Christine in particular, I think is really great.

961
01:02:05.219 --> 01:02:07.440
Do you hear what Spock said just then?

962
01:02:07.500 --> 01:02:09.119
That should have been the bye word for this season.

963
01:02:09.179 --> 01:02:15.300
Do not attempt to psychoanalyse me. better people than you have tried and failed.

964
01:02:16.980 --> 01:02:19.980
Someone should have said that in the penultimate episode.

965
01:02:20.039 --> 01:02:29.039
I think he gets a really funny line later on, which I really, really liked, and it's a cheesy line, but I did laugh out loud at it.

966
01:02:29.099 --> 01:02:42.840
And he, you know, like, I think there's a reason why in the 2 seasons so far of Strange New Worlds have given him a role in a sort of ludicrous Vulcan sex comedy, because I think he's funny.

967
01:02:42.900 --> 01:02:43.619
You know?

968
01:02:43.860 --> 01:02:52.440
Yeah, but they do have to, they do sort of have to contrive situations where you can really loosen up and peck and just have fun.

969
01:02:52.500 --> 01:02:56.460
Yeah, well, like in Elysium Kingdom, for instance, which is pretty cool.

970
01:02:56.519 --> 01:03:01.440
But I just always feel with Peck, like with Nemoy, there's just always this sort of glint in the eye.

971
01:03:01.500 --> 01:03:07.380
There's no inlook that the character is enjoying himself and having fun in the adventures.

972
01:03:08.699 --> 01:03:14.219
So Leland's obviously he'll be killed at the end by control, but he's pretty great.

973
01:03:14.280 --> 01:03:21.360
Um, and he's our sort of antagonist in section 31, which they've brought back for this year.

974
01:03:21.659 --> 01:03:33.360
I'll just say, the fact that they, they even chose to represent the terrible black tunics that they had in DS9 for the section 31 characters.

975
01:03:33.420 --> 01:03:34.860
I mean, that's detail, that is.

976
01:03:35.159 --> 01:03:35.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

977
01:03:35.820 --> 01:03:46.860
I think see the gold, you know, the badge, the insignia badge, and I think section 31 have a black one, like a shiny black one, which is pretty great.

978
01:03:47.880 --> 01:03:49.920
Oh, Tilly.

979
01:03:49.980 --> 01:03:51.179
See, every time she appears.

980
01:03:51.239 --> 01:03:52.199
Oh, smile.

981
01:03:52.260 --> 01:03:53.880
Yeah, yeah, she's great.

982
01:03:53.940 --> 01:03:54.659
More of her.

983
01:03:54.840 --> 01:03:59.639
Oh, that bit Nathan, that bit where her and Stammet sing the David Bowie song in Sick Bay.

984
01:03:59.699 --> 01:04:01.260
Oh man.

985
01:04:01.320 --> 01:04:04.679
Oh, look, this all this fucking lens flare.

986
01:04:04.739 --> 01:04:07.139
Well, no, because look at me.

987
01:04:07.199 --> 01:04:08.280
I feel like I'm at a disco.

988
01:04:08.340 --> 01:04:09.480
Oh, I do sound like an old man.

989
01:04:09.539 --> 01:04:10.500
Yeah, yeah.

990
01:04:10.559 --> 01:04:27.719
But the point of it is to create a sense of unreality around this scene, because he's remembering her and it's his memory of her that reassures her, you know, that reassures him that the right thing to do is, you know, that the Talotians will sort this.

991
01:04:27.780 --> 01:04:31.920
The Tolosians will let Michael and Spot go.

992
01:04:31.980 --> 01:04:35.760
Like they won't let them go with Leila. create a sense of unreality.

993
01:04:35.820 --> 01:04:37.260
Start tilting the cameras again then.

994
01:04:37.380 --> 01:04:41.280
Well, I couldn't tell the cameras and did lens flair for that scene.

995
01:04:41.579 --> 01:04:44.099
Look, it's beautiful, sad.

996
01:04:44.159 --> 01:04:45.480
Yeah.

997
01:04:46.559 --> 01:04:49.079
And that set's pretty impressive too.

998
01:04:49.139 --> 01:04:51.119
Oh, that guy's got no sleeves.

999
01:04:51.179 --> 01:04:51.840
Whoa.

1000
01:04:52.139 --> 01:04:54.179
Yeah, it is.

1001
01:04:54.239 --> 01:04:56.760
Section 31 is evil, so of course they're in black.

1002
01:04:56.880 --> 01:04:57.900
Yep. yep.

1003
01:04:57.960 --> 01:05:01.860
And they've got a big pit in the middle of their ship where people go in.

1004
01:05:02.039 --> 01:05:04.559
A bit like DS no, isn't it?

1005
01:05:04.619 --> 01:05:05.460
They had a pit an ops.

1006
01:05:05.519 --> 01:05:08.099
Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1007
01:05:08.159 --> 01:05:13.260
Oh, there was all evil in that as well, I've always, so...

1008
01:05:13.260 --> 01:05:14.099
I like their ship.

1009
01:05:15.059 --> 01:05:17.039
Certain characters.

1010
01:05:17.099 --> 01:05:18.539
Just make you smile, didn't they?

1011
01:05:18.599 --> 01:05:19.320
Yeah, yeah.

1012
01:05:19.380 --> 01:05:20.940
This is cousin Michelle.

1013
01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:21.780
She's making...

1014
01:05:21.840 --> 01:05:24.539
It's because they sort of guarantee a good time.

1015
01:05:24.599 --> 01:05:25.440
Yeah, yeah.

1016
01:05:25.440 --> 01:05:27.719
It's like when Garak or Dukat or something like that.

1017
01:05:27.719 --> 01:05:30.420
Yeah, it's like Cesca in Voyager, you know?

1018
01:05:30.480 --> 01:05:31.199
Yep.

1019
01:05:31.260 --> 01:05:38.340
If your show's there, do you remember that dinner scene in that episode we watched, everyone else is talking about having fun and she's just...

1020
01:05:38.340 --> 01:05:41.460
We're eating all those loading up with seafood.

1021
01:05:41.940 --> 01:05:45.239
She's sparing it all up having a great time.

1022
01:05:45.360 --> 01:05:54.300
So this, where the 2, like, they're clearly simulacra, and we know that already, because we know the shuttle's coming up to the enterprise, so at this point we know they're not real.

1023
01:05:54.360 --> 01:05:59.639
Say goodbye, Spock, and he turns and goes goodbye, Spock, and then they vanish.

1024
01:05:59.699 --> 01:06:02.219
Like it's such a cheesy old joke, but I think it's really cute.

1025
01:06:02.280 --> 01:06:06.960
But and I think that's probably the most fun moment in that plot.

1026
01:06:07.019 --> 01:06:08.280
Yeah, yeah.

1027
01:06:08.340 --> 01:06:10.860
Yeah, also, that's like the most beard.

1028
01:06:10.920 --> 01:06:13.139
I mean, the one fun moment.

1029
01:06:13.199 --> 01:06:16.559
No, no, she gets to say something, she gets to be snarky about his beard.

1030
01:06:16.619 --> 01:06:21.719
Like, he's her younger brother. is very serious.

1031
01:06:21.780 --> 01:06:22.860
It is very serious.

1032
01:06:23.280 --> 01:06:26.519
I mean, I mean, look at this player, Pike and Spock.

1033
01:06:26.579 --> 01:06:28.019
No one that I gave a new show.

1034
01:06:28.079 --> 01:06:29.039
I know exactly right.

1035
01:06:29.940 --> 01:06:35.460
I do realise I do spend a great deal of UTSP admiring the men of Star Trek.

1036
01:06:35.519 --> 01:06:36.480
Yeah, well, yeah.

1037
01:06:36.539 --> 01:06:37.619
Look at them.

1038
01:06:37.679 --> 01:06:38.340
Why wouldn't you?

1039
01:06:38.400 --> 01:06:39.480
No, exactly.

1040
01:06:39.599 --> 01:06:43.559
Oh, Burnham just did the eyebrow race.

1041
01:06:43.679 --> 01:06:46.199
Yes, that's what I think is really funny.

1042
01:06:46.260 --> 01:06:47.579
I think that's really awesome.

1043
01:06:47.639 --> 01:06:56.400
So he says the thing, and then she turns and does the Vulcan eyebrow rays, which I just thought was great, and there we get welcome to Discovery, which I think is pretty awesome too.

1044
01:06:56.519 --> 01:06:58.500
Oh my god, the best line.

1045
01:06:58.559 --> 01:06:59.340
She's just saying...

1046
01:06:59.340 --> 01:07:02.280
Yeah, yeah, she wipes out. their stupid planes.

1047
01:07:04.559 --> 01:07:07.380
Oh, see, we're laughing again.

1048
01:07:07.440 --> 01:07:08.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1049
01:07:08.579 --> 01:07:10.260
Why wasn't it more fun than this?

1050
01:07:10.320 --> 01:07:10.860
It can?

1051
01:07:10.920 --> 01:07:12.659
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1052
01:07:12.719 --> 01:07:14.280
I think they are serious.

1053
01:07:14.340 --> 01:07:15.420
That should have been the story.

1054
01:07:15.480 --> 01:07:17.099
She blew up the planet at the end.

1055
01:07:18.480 --> 01:07:20.639
Look at him walking off.

1056
01:07:20.699 --> 01:07:22.079
It's Michelle yo.

1057
01:07:22.139 --> 01:07:23.099
Great.

1058
01:07:23.159 --> 01:07:25.559
Oh, stop making movies.

1059
01:07:25.619 --> 01:07:26.820
Come back to Star Trek.

1060
01:07:30.420 --> 01:07:32.820
Jesus, what the hell is that thing?

1061
01:07:32.880 --> 01:07:33.599
Beyond Spork.

1062
01:07:33.659 --> 01:07:37.679
Yeah, I'm not quite sure what that guy is.

1063
01:07:37.739 --> 01:07:40.739
I think he gets a credit.

1064
01:07:40.860 --> 01:07:43.019
Is he...

1065
01:07:43.440 --> 01:07:44.639
Yeah, no, I'm not sure.

1066
01:07:44.639 --> 01:07:45.480
He's something.

1067
01:07:45.539 --> 01:07:46.440
I don't know.

1068
01:07:46.500 --> 01:07:47.340
That is incredible.

1069
01:07:47.400 --> 01:07:48.719
He needs a close up.

1070
01:07:49.199 --> 01:07:52.920
Well, it's not Linus or the other guy.

1071
01:07:52.980 --> 01:07:58.559
Like there's 2 kind of big weird aliens, but that strange alien is a thing.

1072
01:07:58.619 --> 01:07:59.760
I can't remember what he is.

1073
01:08:00.360 --> 01:08:02.639
You know what I'd love?

1074
01:08:02.699 --> 01:08:06.659
I'd love for that to be a knowing line about the lens flare.

1075
01:08:06.719 --> 01:08:09.780
Look at uh, race.

1076
01:08:12.840 --> 01:08:15.300
Reese is standing next to Tilly, looking very pretty.

1077
01:08:15.659 --> 01:08:18.659
And Bryce is standing next to Garrium.

1078
01:08:18.720 --> 01:08:20.939
We're tilt in the camera again as we go in.

1079
01:08:21.000 --> 01:08:26.220
So the other thing that someone said to me the other day was every week on Star Trek Discovery.

1080
01:08:26.279 --> 01:08:28.859
Every week on Star Trek Strange New World.

1081
01:08:28.920 --> 01:08:35.699
The captain says, we're going to disobey orders or Una says, we're going to disobey orders. take the ship off and you don't have to do this if you don't want to.

1082
01:08:35.760 --> 01:08:39.840
And I think it happens twice in series 2 and we've just done it here as well.

1083
01:08:40.380 --> 01:08:42.779
It's just like, yeah, we're just going to take the ship, like whatever.

1084
01:08:42.840 --> 01:08:46.500
And that seems to happen all the time, which I think, you know, that's kind of fun.

1085
01:08:46.560 --> 01:08:48.359
It's better than just going on the missions.

1086
01:08:48.420 --> 01:08:49.800
There's Melissa George's credit.

1087
01:08:49.920 --> 01:08:57.720
Now, we found a few bits to admire about that and we found smacking that we liked and certainly we enjoyed the production.

1088
01:08:58.079 --> 01:09:01.619
I would call that a failure, though, in the...

1089
01:09:01.619 --> 01:09:06.659
It doesn't deliver much entertainment for its runtime.

1090
01:09:06.720 --> 01:09:15.600
Well, I think that it's too serious and I think that that's why series 2 is, for me, the weakest series.

1091
01:09:15.659 --> 01:09:19.500
Series one is also very serious, but it does have light moments as well.

1092
01:09:19.560 --> 01:09:21.779
But I don't know.

1093
01:09:21.840 --> 01:09:27.479
It did make me think maybe I should watch season 2 all the way through. 14 episodes.

1094
01:09:27.539 --> 01:09:28.199
It's quite long.

1095
01:09:28.260 --> 01:09:36.600
But I have only seen it through once at the time, and I've gone back and seen this one, obviously, because, you know, it's the Talos 41.

1096
01:09:36.960 --> 01:09:41.819
But it would be fun to experience this in context, I think.

1097
01:09:41.880 --> 01:09:45.359
I feel like this should be the standout episode of series two.

1098
01:09:45.420 --> 01:09:54.600
This is like the big dig into the past and it should be sort of the most trek episode of series 2 because we are going back to where it all began.

1099
01:09:54.659 --> 01:09:55.800
Yeah, yeah.

1100
01:09:55.859 --> 01:09:57.779
Why are we going back here otherwise?

1101
01:09:57.840 --> 01:09:59.880
I guess it's, I don't know.

1102
01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:01.199
Why are we going back?

1103
01:10:01.560 --> 01:10:04.380
I guess because they can cure Spock?

1104
01:10:04.439 --> 01:10:04.920
Is that it?

1105
01:10:04.979 --> 01:10:07.800
Because it's in the back. fun thing to do.

1106
01:10:07.859 --> 01:10:08.699
Yeah.

1107
01:10:08.760 --> 01:10:10.500
But instead it's an overwrought thing.

1108
01:10:10.560 --> 01:10:13.859
You know, it becomes all about their childhood feelings about each other.

1109
01:10:13.920 --> 01:10:18.779
The biggest problem with this is I think it just comes maybe 2 seasons, too early.

1110
01:10:18.840 --> 01:10:20.579
Yeah, maybe.

1111
01:10:20.640 --> 01:10:24.180
I think if they were going to do this in five, you know.

1112
01:10:24.239 --> 01:10:25.020
Yeah.

1113
01:10:25.079 --> 01:10:27.539
Well, then it would have been fun, then it would have been more fun.

1114
01:10:27.600 --> 01:10:29.640
But I don't think fun is what they're trying to do here.

1115
01:10:29.699 --> 01:10:31.739
I think they're trying to tell a big epic story.

1116
01:10:31.800 --> 01:10:45.779
And I think they kind of manage that, but I do think that means that it's a bit leaden from time to time because everything has this sort of massive weight and everyone has to feel big things about everything and they don't leaven it with humour often enough, I think.

1117
01:10:45.840 --> 01:11:00.720
And like, you know, I'm not going to labour the point too much, but I do feel the DS9 episode and the Strange New World episode, it was a massive loving for original Star Trek, you know, and you felt and you went along for the ride and you had a great time.

1118
01:11:00.779 --> 01:11:07.560
I do think there is a little bit of, we are a bit embarrassed, but we're going to do this because it was Star Trek.

1119
01:11:07.619 --> 01:11:09.659
So we're just going to make it look great.

1120
01:11:09.720 --> 01:11:10.319
Absolutely not.

1121
01:11:10.380 --> 01:11:12.779
I think that because they didn't have to do it.

1122
01:11:12.840 --> 01:11:15.060
They could have gone to a planet of their own invention.

1123
01:11:15.119 --> 01:11:30.239
They didn't need to do this, but they deliberately choose to end series one with the enterprise arriving and they choose to make the captain Christopher Pike, and they choose to explore his backstory all throughout the year.

1124
01:11:30.300 --> 01:11:33.300
And I think they do that because they love Star Trek.

1125
01:11:33.359 --> 01:11:48.659
But I think they show us the original episode at the beginning to say, we're going to do this for you, but with modern production sensibilities, and we're going to make it look as spectacular and weird as we can.

1126
01:11:48.720 --> 01:11:59.520
And I think there are bits of it that are spectacular and weird, but there's a fair bit of standing around in a fairly darkened room and sort of talking about stuff and that's a bit disappointing, I think.

1127
01:11:59.579 --> 01:12:02.640
I just think maybe they shouldn't have done this.

1128
01:12:02.699 --> 01:12:20.880
And I certainly don't think they should have put that at the beginning of the episode because what I've got here is 30 seconds of material that I think is really colourful and fun and and then a boring 50 minutes afterwards, that isn't celebrating what it was advertising at the beginning.

1129
01:12:20.939 --> 01:12:29.340
I think the cage is actually comparably boring, probably. 60s soak, so it looks...

1130
01:12:29.399 --> 01:12:31.560
So it looks sort of super colourful and stuff like that.

1131
01:12:31.619 --> 01:12:33.779
But I do think that this is a love letter to it.

1132
01:12:33.840 --> 01:12:39.960
And I do think that making pike so like doing such a good job with pike that we get strange new worlds.

1133
01:12:40.020 --> 01:12:50.220
You know, they do pike, they do number one, and they do Spock, and they do all 3 of them so well that everyone's clamouring to have them back, and they go, yes, actually that would be a good idea.

1134
01:12:50.279 --> 01:12:51.359
Let's do a show of that.

1135
01:12:51.420 --> 01:12:54.180
And doing the whole pike thing.

1136
01:12:54.239 --> 01:13:09.180
Remember what they do in this series is they give Pike the opportunity to see his death and it's not his death, but his accident and its consequences, and then they let him freely choose that.

1137
01:13:09.239 --> 01:13:10.920
Do you remember that?

1138
01:13:10.979 --> 01:13:13.020
That's coming later in the series.

1139
01:13:13.079 --> 01:13:16.500
And so they really want to do Pike and they want to do him properly.

1140
01:13:16.560 --> 01:13:23.100
And so to do him properly, you have to do, tell us four, I think, because that's the only place we've seen him before.

1141
01:13:23.159 --> 01:13:30.359
Well, in fact, Christ, they got all this introspection over and done with, so then he can go on strangely wells and have some fun and have some fun.

1142
01:13:30.420 --> 01:13:30.960
Exactly right.

1143
01:13:31.020 --> 01:13:33.539
Although, you know, like it does start, doesn't it?

1144
01:13:33.600 --> 01:13:48.060
It does start with him lying in bed with that horrific beard, much, much worse than Spock's beard, feeling bad because he's going to be killed, you know, at some and then he decides actually, no, it's what I do in the meantime that matters.

1145
01:13:48.180 --> 01:13:54.060
You know, that's kind of good, but that we do start from that place and we do have flashbacks to that episode.

1146
01:13:54.119 --> 01:14:10.079
Um, you know, well, don't worry, because uh, Krusty, you know, grumpy Joe Ford is going to be really happy because I know where we're going next and it's going to be a weld of static cameras and flat overhead lighting.

1147
01:14:11.699 --> 01:14:15.119
And predictably dull storytelling.

1148
01:14:15.180 --> 01:14:17.220
So I'll be happy next week.

1149
01:14:17.279 --> 01:14:18.779
I can hardly wait.

1150
01:14:25.920 --> 01:14:40.500
All right, it's the end of our episode, and it is time, as Joe threatened, to go back to the 90s for some solid old-fashioned entertainment in the Rick Berman Star Trek universe.

1151
01:14:40.560 --> 01:14:45.479
So, Joe, tell us which of the series we're going to be choosing from this week.

1152
01:14:45.600 --> 01:14:52.020
Well, I promise, you know, predictable storytelling, static camera work, flat overhead licing.

1153
01:14:52.079 --> 01:14:57.539
So naturally we're heading to Star Trek, the Next Generation, Deep Space Iron, and Voyager.

1154
01:14:57.600 --> 01:14:58.500
Excellent.

1155
01:14:58.560 --> 01:14:59.039
The three.

1156
01:14:59.039 --> 01:14:59.579
The three.

1157
01:14:59.640 --> 01:15:00.060
Yeah.

1158
01:15:00.060 --> 01:15:00.359
Yeah.

1159
01:15:00.420 --> 01:15:00.779
Yep.

1160
01:15:00.840 --> 01:15:01.859
The 3 main ones.

1161
01:15:01.920 --> 01:15:03.119
Let's see.

1162
01:15:03.180 --> 01:15:04.140
We never know.

1163
01:15:04.199 --> 01:15:07.680
We might find the one, you know, Looks good.

1164
01:15:09.239 --> 01:15:11.399
Oh, no, no.

1165
01:15:11.460 --> 01:15:19.199
Okay, your random Star Trek Voyager episode is season six, episode 25, the haunting of deck 12.

1166
01:15:19.680 --> 01:15:20.460
Oh my god.

1167
01:15:20.699 --> 01:15:26.100
That is the one where Nicolix is telling the story to the little kittywigs that we just made in collective.

1168
01:15:26.159 --> 01:15:27.539
Yeah, yeah.

1169
01:15:27.600 --> 01:15:28.920
We have just done season six.

1170
01:15:28.979 --> 01:15:29.819
All right.

1171
01:15:29.880 --> 01:15:32.460
Okay. the masterpiece society.

1172
01:15:32.520 --> 01:15:34.020
Yeah, not doing that.

1173
01:15:34.619 --> 01:15:36.960
Oh, I always do.

1174
01:15:37.020 --> 01:15:39.119
I always bring this one up and then we never do it.

1175
01:15:39.180 --> 01:15:40.439
Okay, what is it?

1176
01:15:40.500 --> 01:15:46.500
Well, random Star Trek D Space 9 episode is season six, episode two, Rocks and Shoals.

1177
01:15:46.560 --> 01:15:48.420
I swear we've been to past this twice already.

1178
01:15:48.479 --> 01:15:49.920
Why don't we do it?

1179
01:15:50.279 --> 01:15:52.260
I mean, it's great.

1180
01:15:52.380 --> 01:15:54.119
And actually, do you know what?

1181
01:15:54.239 --> 01:15:56.640
It's just as serious as what we've just watched.

1182
01:15:56.699 --> 01:15:58.439
So it's a good chance to it.

1183
01:15:58.500 --> 01:16:00.779
Yeah, I thought you might want DS9.

1184
01:16:01.020 --> 01:16:03.300
Wrong starker than death or not, you know?

1185
01:16:04.560 --> 01:16:09.180
where we're all having overwrought conversations about ourselves and stuff.

1186
01:16:09.239 --> 01:16:13.560
And I'm going to let you into a little secret that's going to get you very excited.

1187
01:16:13.619 --> 01:16:14.640
Oh, what's that?

1188
01:16:14.699 --> 01:16:16.439
They go outside.

1189
01:16:16.500 --> 01:16:18.600
Yes, I remember that.

1190
01:16:19.500 --> 01:16:22.800
I remember I said to you about how they always complained.

1191
01:16:22.859 --> 01:16:25.439
Apparently that was the hottest shoot. they've ever had.

1192
01:16:25.680 --> 01:16:28.319
Andrew Robinson was melting.

1193
01:16:28.380 --> 01:16:29.460
Oh, no.

1194
01:16:29.520 --> 01:16:30.420
That's right.

1195
01:16:30.479 --> 01:16:33.239
All those Jem'adar as well, poor bastards.

1196
01:16:33.359 --> 01:16:40.680
And this is us skipping from the last 10 to the other big arc, which is the 6 episodes at the beginning of six.

1197
01:16:40.739 --> 01:16:41.579
Yeah.

1198
01:16:41.640 --> 01:16:43.439
No, I think that's good.

1199
01:16:43.500 --> 01:16:48.720
Like, they do a good job of, you know, like getting us back to the status quo, but making us work for it.

1200
01:16:48.779 --> 01:16:52.140
And I seem to remember those 6 episodes being pretty great.

1201
01:16:52.920 --> 01:16:55.020
Please, I hope so.

1202
01:16:55.439 --> 01:17:00.899
I always promise we're going to love things and then, well, I said we were going to love this one, didn't I?

1203
01:17:01.020 --> 01:17:02.399
Well, I liked it.

1204
01:17:02.460 --> 01:17:03.359
I liked it.

1205
01:17:04.079 --> 01:17:06.420
I like talking about it with you.

1206
01:17:06.479 --> 01:17:08.100
Okay, rocks and shoals.

1207
01:17:08.159 --> 01:17:08.760
Let's do it.

1208
01:17:08.819 --> 01:17:28.500
Brilliant. lets do it You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Port and Nathan Bottomley, where online at untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find subscription links and links to our social media accounts.

1209
01:17:28.619 --> 01:17:34.260
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

1210
01:17:34.319 --> 01:17:39.960
This episode was recorded on the 5th of September 2023 and released on the 8th of September.

1211
01:17:40.020 --> 01:17:44.819
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Deep Space 9, Rocks and Shoals.

1212
01:18:05.939 --> 01:18:07.739
That sounded more like an old man.

1213
01:18:08.220 --> 01:18:10.020
Cameras movie.

1214
01:18:10.079 --> 01:18:11.460
I'm going.

1215
01:18:11.460 --> 01:18:13.439
I'm looking at the screen.

1216
01:18:13.500 --> 01:18:14.340
What are those things?

1217
01:18:14.399 --> 01:18:18.659
Why did they go to the quarry instead of just doing a terrible set in the studio?

1218
01:18:19.020 --> 01:18:21.359
Oh, star by my point.

1219
01:18:23.399 --> 01:18:25.439
Shit, an alert.

1220
01:18:25.560 --> 01:18:28.079
Because that's the other thing too.

1221
01:18:28.140 --> 01:18:29.880
Yeah, remember that first...

1222
01:18:29.939 --> 01:18:32.460
Oh, let's just go straight through then, if you've got to go.

1223
01:18:32.520 --> 01:18:36.300
Oh my god, I just brought up untold Star Trek project. and assignment Earth.

1224
01:18:36.359 --> 01:18:36.840
That was so fun.

1225
01:18:36.899 --> 01:18:38.760
What happened to those days?

1226
01:18:38.819 --> 01:18:40.319
Yeah, great.

1227
01:18:40.500 --> 01:18:42.359
Everyone hates it.

1228
01:18:42.420 --> 01:18:44.880
It's like a night in Sick Bay.

1229
01:18:44.939 --> 01:18:46.739
Okay, here we go.

1230
01:18:46.800 --> 01:18:47.640
Oh my god.

1231
01:18:47.699 --> 01:18:53.819
The struggle is right, is we do have to do a lot of 90s right, because there's so much of it. so fucking much of it.

1232
01:18:53.880 --> 01:18:54.899
Yeah.

1233
01:18:54.960 --> 01:18:57.840
Okay, most of my free favourites.

1234
01:18:57.899 --> 01:19:00.119
Okay, all right. whenever you're ready.

1235
01:19:01.020 --> 01:19:03.539
All right, it's the end of our episode.