WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 21:52:30

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So we're back in Discovery, the first series of the new Kurtzman

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Star Trek Heyday, and it's been a while since we've done it, and

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every time we do it, it reminds me actually how much I like kind

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of hanging out with these people, but it's so different from just

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about anything else we ever do.

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I'm in a disadvantageous position that the last few times we've

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come back to this show, I'm reminded why this is probably my least

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favourite Star Trek series.

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Of all, of all.

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Oh, maybe not the animated series.

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I'm not sure that even deserves the title series, though. you know

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skits maybe.

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Yeah, I mean, look, I think, I think this is, you know, clearly

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better than a lot of 90s trek, and the reason that it's better is

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that it's weird in a way that 90 straight doesn't attempt to be.

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And it's visually weird and interesting and sort of unsettling in

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all sorts of ways.

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Destructing, I think, was the word you use on our Fred.

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And sometimes I don't think it needs to be as distracting as it

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is.

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Oh yeah, I think it's trying to disconcert you.

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And certainly in series one where Discovery is kind of a hostile

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place as far as Michael's concerned and certainly not her home in

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any sense, the direction goes out of its way to kind of be

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unsettling.

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And I still think you get that a little bit in Discovery's

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corridors.

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And then there's the big sort of wheeling the camera around upside

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down for no reason when we go on board the section 39 ship, as if

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to say discovery. on Strange New Worlds.

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They don't they don't do that Australia Worlds.

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No.

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And that's the thing.

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Like, strangely, worlds reins it back in again.

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And Strangely Worlds is odd, but it's not as complex and the

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characters are more straightforward and the storytelling is more

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straightforward.

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For me, it is more fun to watch.

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Oh, it is.

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I think that if this is a fault, I think it's a little bit too

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rightly and a little bit too sombre.

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And there are fun moments and funny lines, but there's a kind of

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level of self-seriousness that I don't always kind of buy. you

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talking about this episode or this TV show?

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This season more than anything else?

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I think.

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This is my least favourite season of Discovery.

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And I think it's because we discover that some Sanequa is a very

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good actor and an incredibly strong lead.

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And we do something that we haven't emphasised in previous Star

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Trek shows, which is we make it about how she feels about things

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and we give her things to feel about.

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So she's got this backstory and she's got sort of dead parents who

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then get upgraded to missing and she's got this relationship with

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this with Spock and she's got this childhood of kind of exile and

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anxiety and, you know, being teased for being human and stuff like

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that.

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So she's got this rich story that she has things to feel about.

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And they just, I think, in series 2, lean into that too much.

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And so there's a lot of talking and a lot of her looking soulful

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and stuff like that. exemplified in this episode, which suffers

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from incredibly dull, very long dialogue scenes, where she's

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acting her heart out, but I was just so disengaged by the tone of

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it.

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Like you and I, we've already talked about the soap opera in Star

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Trek.

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But that sort of grandiose melodramatic, so popular.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. of the latter-day DS9.

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This isn't that.

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I mean, this is sort of playing it for real.

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Yeah, and that's just not very interesting to watch.

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And come the end of this season, all of this introspection and

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overdone sentiment is taken to the nth degree, the penultimate

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episode of this season is one of the most agonising episodes of

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Star Trek.

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As every character says goodbye for about 15 minutes and the

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strings are in and everyone's crying and I'm like, just get on

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with it.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Well, I'm at the point then where I'm kind of going, they better

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not really be going into the future because I'm going to be really

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annoyed.

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Part of the way...

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Well, part of the reason that I, like, I think the 2 seasons where

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they're in the future are much better and have a clearer focus and

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a better idea of what the show is going to be about.

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And series one, I think, is clearly about something and series 2

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is this weird kind of transitional period where we're slightly

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apologising for series one because some people didn't really get

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it.

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And we didn't know it at the time, but this is another backdoor

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pilot for another show.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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That's right.

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Just a 2nd in a row.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So I don't think this sort of fully works, but I really like, so

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there's some plot.

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There's sort of two, there's sort of one big soap opera subplot

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which is about the death of Hugh and his return to life and how

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that affects his relationship with Paul.

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And I think that's really good.

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And Ash is obviously involved in that because it was Voke that

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killed Hugh towards the end of series one in what was a massive

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dumb mistake, a huge misstep for the show to take.

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I will say that the sequence in this, which we will talk about

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later, where, um, Oh God, Colba and Ash.

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Yeah, Ash.

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Yeah.

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Pock?

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whatever his name is.

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Yeah, yeah, that is.

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The fight sequence.

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You've got 2 of the hottest men on this show going at each other

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in the mess up.

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Suddenly my interest peaked, you know?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And the reaction around that. like I think all of that's really

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good.

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And I think the great thing about it too is that it's been soundly

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mocked since then by lower decks, because that show kills shacks

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off in the season one finale and then brings him back a few

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episodes later and makes the whole thing about how bridge crew

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died. never know the time and come back.

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And someone's coming up with these absurd Star Trek plots to try

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guess the way that he came back, you know?

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And it's an official secret.

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Yeah, but I mean, they earn it.

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They solidly punish themselves for being so stupid as to kill him

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off.

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And here we are just over halfway through the season and it's

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still happening.

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It's still an ongoing plot.

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You remember when we pulled this one out of the randomiser?

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And I went, 0 yeah, this is the one where they go to Talos 7 and

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it's the original.

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And you said, yeah, it's got that previously on Star Trek Bit.

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And I think what this promises at the beginning is a really sort

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of nostalgic look back at the cage.

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And I think that entire plot here, that's what fails miserably.

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It's not camp and silly and fun like the cage was.

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So it's not sort of getting the tone right.

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It takes away a lot of the artifice, and I know you're going to

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come at me saying that TVs change these days, but they did do that

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in Strange New Worlds when they did a TOS pastige.

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So they can do it.

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And instead we're on location and the aliens have all been, they've

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got sort of heads looking slightly less embarrassing than they did

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in the 60s.

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Yeah, but I think that's a deliberate thing.

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I think that they're definitely trying to do that.

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And that's one of this show's missions.

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But it does feel like they're a little embarrassed about it.

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No, but I don't think they are because they absolutely put that

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stuff on screen.

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And what they say is that Anson Mount is the same character who

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was played by whoever the hell, way back in the cage, and they

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even do that by, you know, kind of cutting to him looking like or

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in the same kind of stance as the other guy was.

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And I think that this is saying, you know, this is what this show

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looks like with modern production values.

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And there were bafflingly dim critics who were saying, well, all

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the technology here looks newer than it did in the 1960s.

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And that's inconsistent.

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It's a uh, discontinuity with the uh, with the original show.

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And this show is saying, yes, it is.

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That's absolutely this.

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We are telling the same story about some of the same people, but

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we're doing it on, you know, a modern TV budget and now Strange

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New Worlds does the same thing. absolutely the same thing.

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And it does the usual sort of, oh, we were in space stock and we

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redecorated, so all the rooms are 5 times as big as they're going

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to be, you know, 10 years time or whatever.

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It's as thin as possible.

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And of course we're doing that because the job of this show is to

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look weird and spectacular.

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But when DS9 went back into TOS and Tribulation, obviously they're

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putting the characters within that episode, so it looks camping

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60s and wonderful.

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And when Strange New Wells did it, I thought they did that as

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well.

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This feels like the anomaly of those 3 lookbacks at TOS.

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But do you remember that at the end of this season we actually go

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back on board the Enterprise and we see number one and stuff like

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that?

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We go back on board the Enterprise, and the fun of that is seeing

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how on the new budget, they're going to create something that

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looks wild and spectacular and consistent with the look of this

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show while still evoking the original sets from the 1960s.

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And I think most people thought that they did a good job of that.

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Well, I'm certainly not talking about the production style now.

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I don't think this invoked the cage at all.

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Yeah, and I really, I realise that.

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I think at this point, they're still a little tentative to have as

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much fun as they should be with going back and doing the cage.

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They're still like, right, no, we need to be polished science

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fiction. serious drama and all of this.

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And you know, you and I have discussed this in the past.

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That's not what Star Trek is.

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That's right.

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That's right And it doesn't work. it is quite boring.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Like, I think I think the longest scene is the one where we get

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Michael's flashback, you know, the memory that she's paying the

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Talosians with and it's a sort of long story.

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But it's told in an interesting way visually, and both Ethan Peck

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and Sanequa Martin Green do a great job of acting it.

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But yes, like you, I would prefer my Star Trek a little bit less

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po-faced than this.

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They were great and they were doing everything that was awesome.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I was, I kept waiting for the moment and it, you know, usually

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happens whenever Star Trek goes into soap opera where they deflate

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it.

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No, no, where I should be humiliated by this.

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Tom Paris going, you know, Bilana, talk to me.

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I was like, so ridiculous like that.

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And it just never happened.

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So I felt as if I was genuinely watching somebody's therapy

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session and that is an entertainment to me.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I think that, I mean, I think there are properly funny lines here

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um, and, you know, there's fun to be had and it looks great and

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the action is sort of fun and all of that.

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Where the where the fun was, was in the fabulous gay storyline.

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Because I thought that that had moments where it was heading into

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sort of daytime soap opera.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Stop talking.

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It looks to me like you know who I am.

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Yeah, we're doing all this stuff.

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I'm talking about.

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I think those 2 actors together are brilliant. have to play

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chemistry.

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And actually, we've seen you and I on Star Trek. have seen later

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episodes where they're just the highlight of the show when they're

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together sometimes.

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So that works.

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And you said to me in the thread, like, this is very busy.

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Yes.

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And I said, yeah, but for once, that's not a bad thing because

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this had all been set on Talos 7.

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Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

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It would have been in terminal to watch.

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Yeah.

248
00:12:30.299 --> 00:12:30.720
Yeah.

249
00:12:30.779 --> 00:12:33.240
And I think, you know, that's the thing that's happening here

250
00:12:33.240 --> 00:12:33.659
too.

251
00:12:33.720 --> 00:12:38.759
That Star Trek discovery is serialised and has been since the 1st

252
00:12:38.759 --> 00:12:40.440
series and will continue to be.

253
00:12:40.500 --> 00:12:44.460
Each series tells a different story.

254
00:12:44.519 --> 00:12:48.480
And like the Talos thing is obviously what's trying to tie it

255
00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:48.899
together.

256
00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:54.059
And I guess it's what the title, you know, what...

257
00:12:54.299 --> 00:12:56.220
Well, I don't know where the title comes from.

258
00:12:56.279 --> 00:12:58.799
Is it is it that plot or is it the Hugh plot?

259
00:12:58.860 --> 00:13:01.440
But in any case, there's something about memory happening, but I

260
00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:03.659
don't think it ties it up enough.

261
00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:07.740
And I certainly think that in later series, they do a better job.

262
00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:10.620
If they were going to do this in series five.

263
00:13:10.679 --> 00:13:12.899
I think they go to town now.

264
00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:14.399
Now we've had lower decks.

265
00:13:14.460 --> 00:13:15.480
Now we've had Strange New Worlds.

266
00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:16.200
Okay.

267
00:13:16.259 --> 00:13:17.759
Let's loosen up.

268
00:13:17.820 --> 00:13:19.500
Let's have some jokes in there, you know?

269
00:13:19.559 --> 00:13:22.440
I'm pretty sure that that's what's going to happen when they come

270
00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:23.220
back next year.

271
00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:27.120
I think that this is their finale and I think they're going to

272
00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:28.080
have some fun.

273
00:13:28.139 --> 00:13:34.200
I think that they, they're clearly aware right from episode one of

274
00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:38.220
series 3 that they haven't been quite fun enough and they do their

275
00:13:38.220 --> 00:13:41.639
best to, you know, increase the fun quotient, I think.

276
00:13:41.700 --> 00:13:44.639
But also, as well, that's the season they're going out on.

277
00:13:44.700 --> 00:13:47.460
And I think they've earned it because they brought back this

278
00:13:47.460 --> 00:13:51.779
iteration on Star Trek and allowed us to have all the other stuff

279
00:13:51.779 --> 00:13:52.500
that we love.

280
00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:54.480
And I'm not saying this is all bad because there's a lot of

281
00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:57.779
discovery I like as well, but I think they deserve that sort of

282
00:13:57.779 --> 00:14:02.220
celebratory last season of just going out and having a party, you

283
00:14:02.220 --> 00:14:02.460
know?

284
00:14:02.519 --> 00:14:03.419
Yeah.

285
00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:06.360
I think particularly a show that was affected by COVID and a show

286
00:14:06.360 --> 00:14:09.600
that was affected by weird production stuff in the 1st season and

287
00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:12.539
a show that kind of struggled to find its feet and stuff.

288
00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:15.179
It's a good cast and there are some great characters and things

289
00:14:15.179 --> 00:14:17.460
and I would like them to have fun on the way out too.

290
00:14:17.580 --> 00:14:19.860
What discoveries become, isn't it?

291
00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:21.299
It's become the anti-DS 9.

292
00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:23.159
I know we find a lot of parallels with them.

293
00:14:23.220 --> 00:14:27.240
But DS9 started off as sort of regular trek and then found its

294
00:14:27.240 --> 00:14:28.679
voice and then did its own thing.

295
00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:31.379
Discovery started as its own thing.

296
00:14:31.379 --> 00:14:35.580
You know, found its own voice and then said, actually, no, we

297
00:14:35.580 --> 00:14:37.980
should be a little bit more like Star Trek, you know.

298
00:14:38.039 --> 00:14:38.639
Yeah, yeah.

299
00:14:38.700 --> 00:14:43.320
I think Strangely World's existence might take the pressure off

300
00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:47.820
discovery to be that and it can be more deep space 90.

301
00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:52.200
It can just be the weird serialised show over on the side, I

302
00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:52.379
think.

303
00:14:52.500 --> 00:14:55.379
I'm just hoping the cast of Discovery art watching Strange New

304
00:14:55.379 --> 00:14:57.539
Worlds and going, well, look at all the fun they're having over

305
00:14:57.539 --> 00:14:58.440
there. right.

306
00:14:58.500 --> 00:15:01.019
They're doing a musical episode, for God's sake.

307
00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:01.919
Exactly.

308
00:15:02.039 --> 00:15:03.299
Well, that's it.

309
00:15:03.419 --> 00:15:07.440
You could never imagine the Elysian Kingdom or those old

310
00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:10.320
scientists or subspace rhapsody happening on this show.

311
00:15:10.379 --> 00:15:11.220
It's too serious.

312
00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:13.679
And I think that's a that's a flaw.

313
00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:17.879
Well, I'm sold to go and watch this.

314
00:15:17.940 --> 00:15:18.179
Are you?

315
00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:20.279
Yeah, I'm gonna have fun, I'm sure.

316
00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:22.679
I'm going to have fun with you.

317
00:15:22.740 --> 00:15:23.639
Okay.

318
00:15:24.419 --> 00:15:27.720
All right, I'll count as him then in that case.

319
00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:33.480
Five, four, three, two, one.

320
00:15:33.960 --> 00:15:35.879
And we're off.

321
00:15:35.940 --> 00:15:40.200
So, like, I think this thing, this previously on Star Trek, where

322
00:15:40.200 --> 00:15:44.940
they recapping the cage and they're using, like, absolutely the

323
00:15:44.940 --> 00:15:46.980
original print, do you know what I mean?

324
00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:49.320
They're not using the updated special effects or anything.

325
00:15:49.379 --> 00:15:50.759
There's heaps of film grain.

326
00:15:50.820 --> 00:15:52.620
Everything looks super rough.

327
00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:57.000
I think that part of what, and look, look at what Talos, um, 4

328
00:15:57.000 --> 00:15:57.539
looks like.

329
00:15:57.539 --> 00:15:59.279
And there are the plants.

330
00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:01.440
The blue plants, they'll be back.

331
00:16:01.500 --> 00:16:03.899
And I think part of what this show is doing.

332
00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:04.860
There's Melissa Joel.

333
00:16:04.919 --> 00:16:06.779
Melissa George there, I see.

334
00:16:07.740 --> 00:16:09.840
Fresh from neighbours.

335
00:16:09.899 --> 00:16:11.279
That's right.

336
00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:14.820
Oh, look, the original Tulosians are the best.

337
00:16:14.820 --> 00:16:16.440
They are so funny, aren't they?

338
00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:19.080
Yes.

339
00:16:19.139 --> 00:16:21.659
So, so, and this thing too.

340
00:16:21.720 --> 00:16:26.639
One of the things is that we're getting a real Gary 7 performance

341
00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:28.860
here from the actor who's playing Pike.

342
00:16:28.919 --> 00:16:31.500
There's no humour and no lightness at all.

343
00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:36.299
And there's our pike, who is also trying to look very serious

344
00:16:36.299 --> 00:16:39.360
there, but is actually a lot more fun.

345
00:16:39.419 --> 00:16:42.360
We'll say, though, the original. very pretty, isn't he?

346
00:16:42.419 --> 00:16:43.559
He's got his eyes pop.

347
00:16:43.620 --> 00:16:47.519
He's got very blue eyes, but I've always found him just a massive

348
00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:49.080
charisma vacuum.

349
00:16:49.139 --> 00:16:51.720
I'm not sure we saw enough of it, you know.

350
00:16:51.779 --> 00:16:55.500
We need him in a spot's brain or something like that to truly...

351
00:16:55.500 --> 00:17:02.399
It is the camera going around because we're in section 31.

352
00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:06.779
And I think they're trying to do a 3D nus of space.

353
00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:08.519
So that camera, turn on a washroom.

354
00:17:08.579 --> 00:17:11.460
I was like, yeah, you don't have got to tell me what TV show I'm

355
00:17:11.460 --> 00:17:11.640
watching.

356
00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:12.240
I know.

357
00:17:12.299 --> 00:17:16.319
So, now look, look, Emperor George, no, she's not emperor, is

358
00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:16.500
she?

359
00:17:16.619 --> 00:17:18.779
No, she, Well, yeah.

360
00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:20.819
She'll always be Emperor Giorgio to me.

361
00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:23.759
She turns up at the beginning of the end to remind us of discovery

362
00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:25.079
can, in fact. can be fun.

363
00:17:25.140 --> 00:17:27.420
But look at these these admirals here.

364
00:17:27.480 --> 00:17:31.079
So there's one from each of the founding races of the Federation

365
00:17:31.079 --> 00:17:34.079
and I think this is one of the best live action Tellerites we've

366
00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:34.380
seen.

367
00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:36.539
You'll see him over the site.

368
00:17:36.599 --> 00:17:37.680
He's got a line of dialogue.

369
00:17:37.740 --> 00:17:38.519
I think he looks really good.

370
00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:42.900
You know, is this the only trick that's using lens flare as well?

371
00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:44.220
Discovery.

372
00:17:44.279 --> 00:17:47.039
There, look at, look at the look, look, look, look at the Tellerie

373
00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:47.279
guy.

374
00:17:47.339 --> 00:17:48.359
He looks like a war honk.

375
00:17:48.420 --> 00:17:48.839
He's awesome.

376
00:17:48.900 --> 00:17:49.799
Oh, terrible.

377
00:17:49.859 --> 00:17:53.579
You could say, you did say nobody could get the teller rights

378
00:17:53.579 --> 00:17:53.759
right.

379
00:17:53.819 --> 00:17:55.619
Well, this is as close as they get.

380
00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:58.079
I think apart from Pog, who I think looks fantastic.

381
00:17:58.140 --> 00:17:59.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

382
00:17:59.940 --> 00:18:00.960
Yeah, look at that guy.

383
00:18:01.019 --> 00:18:02.579
He looks like an angry old white guy.

384
00:18:02.700 --> 00:18:03.480
Only he's a hog.

385
00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:04.319
It's awesome.

386
00:18:04.380 --> 00:18:07.500
I wasn't really paying attention to what was going on in these

387
00:18:07.500 --> 00:18:09.299
scenes because I was just trying to get to Talos.

388
00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:10.740
So what's happening here?

389
00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:12.720
I don't know.

390
00:18:12.779 --> 00:18:19.680
So, so Leland is bugging the ship. and we're supposed to think

391
00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:24.900
it's Tyler, who is also working for section 31, I think, but in

392
00:18:24.900 --> 00:18:28.559
fact, it's Arium, the robot lady on the bridge, who's part of the

393
00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:29.819
scenery on the bridge.

394
00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:33.839
Um, and there is a thing.

395
00:18:33.900 --> 00:18:38.279
So what this season does, is the same thing as what Picard series

396
00:18:38.279 --> 00:18:43.140
one does, where it imagines an AI related apocalypse.

397
00:18:43.140 --> 00:18:47.460
And you remember the Romulan women who have the vision of that

398
00:18:47.460 --> 00:18:52.079
apocalypse and they go mad and Commodore O is one of them and she

399
00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:54.059
passes that vision onto Agnes.

400
00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:54.960
Yeah.

401
00:18:55.019 --> 00:18:56.279
So this...

402
00:18:56.279 --> 00:18:57.960
Oh yeah, that sequence is extraordinary.

403
00:18:58.019 --> 00:19:03.599
So we'll see that thing, a different AI apocalypse, obviously

404
00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:04.980
because it's a different century.

405
00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:09.599
But we will see a future that they have to avert.

406
00:19:09.660 --> 00:19:16.259
And so the Red Angel spoiler is Michael's mother in a time

407
00:19:16.259 --> 00:19:19.799
travelling suit, because of course it is, that's how we can get

408
00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:20.819
Sanequa to cry.

409
00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:24.119
And it's not just off camera.

410
00:19:24.180 --> 00:19:25.259
That's right.

411
00:19:25.259 --> 00:19:26.099
That's right.

412
00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:27.539
But she does it so well.

413
00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:34.380
And we've got to avert this terrifying future that's caused by AI

414
00:19:34.380 --> 00:19:36.839
not the Borg, but just AI.

415
00:19:36.900 --> 00:19:42.240
I mean, that sounds like a fairly interesting premise for a Star

416
00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:42.900
Trek season.

417
00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:47.099
Yeah, and you remember that we have the the sphere.

418
00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:49.380
Turn the bloody cameras straight.

419
00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:51.660
What are they all on a walk like this?

420
00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:54.599
Because it's trying to make it seem like space.

421
00:19:54.660 --> 00:19:55.740
Okay.

422
00:19:55.799 --> 00:19:56.819
I think.

423
00:19:56.880 --> 00:19:58.559
Just making me want to go like this.

424
00:19:58.619 --> 00:20:00.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

425
00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:04.680
Look, you can always watch Voyager if you want some dull...

426
00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:06.119
That's where I'll take a snake.

427
00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:09.900
Bige sets over lift.

428
00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:14.819
Can I just say, now look at the yellow lighting on discovery is

429
00:20:14.819 --> 00:20:18.480
beautiful, and it's a very different look from the sort of slight

430
00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:23.279
blue that we get on enterprise, you know, in Strangely Worlds.

431
00:20:23.339 --> 00:20:24.059
I think it looks beautiful.

432
00:20:24.119 --> 00:20:27.359
It's like the sun shines through the windows. is also beautiful.

433
00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:30.599
Although I can't get used to this sort of dark in his hair.

434
00:20:30.660 --> 00:20:33.299
I know he's a bit younger here than he was in Strange New Wales.

435
00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:35.700
Well, Jimmy, a couple of years. gorgeous.

436
00:20:35.819 --> 00:20:37.799
No, to the giant hair he's got.

437
00:20:37.859 --> 00:20:41.400
I'm loving ashes, long hair.

438
00:20:41.460 --> 00:20:43.440
It looks...

439
00:20:43.500 --> 00:20:44.579
Yeah, yeah.

440
00:20:44.700 --> 00:20:46.619
And he's so tall.

441
00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:48.119
That's part of the fun.

442
00:20:48.180 --> 00:20:49.319
He's so much taller than Michael.

443
00:20:49.380 --> 00:20:50.819
So now Michael...

444
00:20:50.819 --> 00:20:53.759
So many hot blokes in this, you know, we'll have to...

445
00:20:53.819 --> 00:20:55.619
He's Ethan Peck, who's...

446
00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:57.539
And he's got a bit of scruff as well, isn't he?

447
00:20:57.599 --> 00:20:58.500
Yeah, looks good.

448
00:20:58.619 --> 00:21:01.980
Although Michael says something rude about the beard, which I

449
00:21:01.980 --> 00:21:02.640
think is pretty great.

450
00:21:02.700 --> 00:21:06.960
The other thing that I really like, and an unsung hero of this

451
00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:10.259
show is the woman who plays the computer.

452
00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:12.779
I love the computer on Discovery.

453
00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:15.180
Like, I just think she's got a great voice.

454
00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:17.579
You know, it's just a thing.

455
00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:21.180
I'm convinced now, the other song Hero of Discovery, and she

456
00:21:21.180 --> 00:21:23.279
barely features in this, so it might be another issue.

457
00:21:23.339 --> 00:21:24.240
I forgot with this.

458
00:21:24.299 --> 00:21:24.900
It's Tilly.

459
00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:25.140
Yeah.

460
00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:26.099
Yeah, she's pretty great.

461
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:29.339
She just comes along to punch her all this seriousness and go, no

462
00:21:29.339 --> 00:21:29.640
no, no.

463
00:21:29.700 --> 00:21:30.839
We're going to have a laugh, you know?

464
00:21:30.900 --> 00:21:34.559
And because she's a normal person and someone who we haven't seen

465
00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:35.579
in Star Trek before.

466
00:21:35.640 --> 00:21:39.539
It's the very definite thing where we're not doing space people on

467
00:21:39.539 --> 00:21:40.019
this show.

468
00:21:40.140 --> 00:21:43.500
And I think they do do space people a bit and but they certainly

469
00:21:43.500 --> 00:21:44.099
do it less.

470
00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:47.460
Well, it's more the sort of representatives of the federation

471
00:21:47.460 --> 00:21:47.880
isn't it?

472
00:21:47.940 --> 00:21:49.140
They're the space people.

473
00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:50.160
Yeah.

474
00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:52.920
Can I just say, what you just said about Sonnequa there?

475
00:21:52.980 --> 00:21:56.039
I am very mean about her and I do think she always gives a good

476
00:21:56.039 --> 00:21:56.519
performance.

477
00:21:56.579 --> 00:21:59.519
I just don't always think she's given the best writing.

478
00:21:59.579 --> 00:22:02.819
But when we watched series 3 episode...

479
00:22:02.940 --> 00:22:03.839
Look how beautiful she is.

480
00:22:03.900 --> 00:22:08.099
And she got to be drunk and just have the best time ever.

481
00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:09.539
Yeah, or whatever it was.

482
00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:11.400
I was like, gee, I want more of this.

483
00:22:11.460 --> 00:22:14.339
And she does loosen up in the future, doesn't she?

484
00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:16.740
And it is a better approach.

485
00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:20.220
Yeah, they give her less, like they're less mean to her.

486
00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:22.980
Like there's not terrible things happening to her all the time

487
00:22:22.980 --> 00:22:26.880
which is how the show starts and then continues this season. what's

488
00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:30.000
wrong with me today. a bit horny, but they also give a smoking hot

489
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:33.720
boyfriend and they, well, that just helps. works like the

490
00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:34.200
clappers.

491
00:22:34.259 --> 00:22:39.480
So I think for the 1st time I understand these titles, Ryan

492
00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:43.500
because remember that one of the things that this episode is doing

493
00:22:43.500 --> 00:22:50.339
is recreating the aliens and some locations, and they show us as a

494
00:22:50.339 --> 00:22:54.539
baseline what it looked like. you know, in a lot of detail what it

495
00:22:54.539 --> 00:22:56.039
looked like in 1966.

496
00:22:56.339 --> 00:23:00.059
And now they're going to show us that done now.

497
00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:05.819
And one of the things that this show had to do was to redesign the

498
00:23:05.819 --> 00:23:06.900
world of Star Trek.

499
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:08.400
What does Star Trek look like now?

500
00:23:08.460 --> 00:23:10.440
We had a definite look in the 90s.

501
00:23:10.500 --> 00:23:12.180
We had a different look in the 60s.

502
00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:13.680
Now we have to have a different look.

503
00:23:13.799 --> 00:23:17.519
And of course, you know, then Strangely Worlds. an altogether

504
00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:20.940
different look and Picard will have a different look, but we're

505
00:23:20.940 --> 00:23:23.460
designing a new look for what Star Trek is.

506
00:23:23.519 --> 00:23:26.099
And so that's why you have blueprints in the opening titles.

507
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:29.519
Playing that, though, I think when this goes off the air, then

508
00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:30.420
what have we got left?

509
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:34.200
Strange New Worlds and I know Prodigy is getting out another

510
00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:36.119
season, but that's it for now, I think.

511
00:23:36.180 --> 00:23:37.920
Yeah. and lower deck.

512
00:23:37.980 --> 00:23:40.440
So we're going to have a show that's very 90s focus.

513
00:23:40.500 --> 00:23:43.500
We can have a show that's very 60s focussed, but with a new sort

514
00:23:43.500 --> 00:23:44.880
of polish to it.

515
00:23:44.940 --> 00:23:47.339
I think we need another show to forge ahead.

516
00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:48.900
Yeah.

517
00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:49.619
Yeah.

518
00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:52.740
Like people talk about Star Trek legacy, you know, as if we're

519
00:23:52.740 --> 00:23:56.640
going to have the Enterprise G or whatever it is with Raffi and 7

520
00:23:56.700 --> 00:23:57.720
and I would love that.

521
00:23:57.779 --> 00:23:59.099
I'm sure that would find that.

522
00:23:59.700 --> 00:24:00.599
Enterprise D now.

523
00:24:00.660 --> 00:24:01.740
We can just have those back.

524
00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:05.279
I'd love to see something in the future.

525
00:24:05.339 --> 00:24:09.599
Maybe the Starfleet Academy thing is Tilly in the future because

526
00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:13.140
she leaves the show to join Starfleet Academy towards the end of

527
00:24:13.140 --> 00:24:15.720
series four, I think.

528
00:24:15.779 --> 00:24:18.900
Probably not going to spend this, spend this entire episode

529
00:24:18.900 --> 00:24:19.859
sweating.

530
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:22.140
But Wilson, is it Wilson Cruz?

531
00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:23.279
Wilson Cruise, yeah.

532
00:24:23.339 --> 00:24:26.339
Oh, that is so cool.

533
00:24:26.339 --> 00:24:29.700
I believe this pair as a couple as well.

534
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:33.180
You know, and I think that really had to work because it's the 1st

535
00:24:33.180 --> 00:24:34.140
time we've done this.

536
00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:35.339
Yeah, yeah.

537
00:24:35.460 --> 00:24:40.680
Yeah, see how how the directions, something about the way the

538
00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:44.339
cameras move around the corridors and stuff is a bit off putting

539
00:24:44.339 --> 00:24:45.960
and I think deliberately so.

540
00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:48.240
Annoyingly so.

541
00:24:48.299 --> 00:24:50.039
Yeah, no, I like it.

542
00:24:50.099 --> 00:24:52.079
I always have this argument, won't we?

543
00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:52.740
Lens flair.

544
00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:55.619
No, I've gone off Lensflare as well.

545
00:24:55.680 --> 00:24:58.019
I felt like I've seen a bit too much of it now.

546
00:24:58.079 --> 00:25:01.859
And I've noticed TV's kind of stopped doing it to the extent that

547
00:25:01.859 --> 00:25:02.160
it was.

548
00:25:02.220 --> 00:25:03.180
Yeah.

549
00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:07.140
Yeah, but I mean, I like the camera being a bit handheld and, you

550
00:25:07.140 --> 00:25:09.240
know, giving us a definite point of view.

551
00:25:09.299 --> 00:25:10.500
See, that's quite good, isn't it?

552
00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:13.680
I'm not going to say this isn't incredible looking because it

553
00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:14.400
clearly is.

554
00:25:14.460 --> 00:25:18.539
And this is probably the most expensive Star Trek show of the

555
00:25:18.539 --> 00:25:19.440
Kurtzman era.

556
00:25:19.500 --> 00:25:21.359
Yeah, look at that. budget.

557
00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:24.539
Oh no, I think the sets in...

558
00:25:24.599 --> 00:25:28.380
I think I think probably Strangely Worlds is...

559
00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:34.019
You know, this is now 4 or 5 years old, 4 years old.

560
00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:36.299
It's robot. character.

561
00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:37.559
Oh, it's Soroan.

562
00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:38.700
All is right.

563
00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:39.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

564
00:25:39.660 --> 00:25:40.259
Yeah.

565
00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:45.299
And we just discovered that in the 23rd century, we are still

566
00:25:45.299 --> 00:25:49.200
using SQL as a database query language from that dialogue from

567
00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:53.579
Arium there, which is terrifying, reassuring and kind of

568
00:25:53.579 --> 00:25:54.539
terrifying at the same time.

569
00:25:54.599 --> 00:25:57.960
For me, who doesn't move along with technology is very

570
00:25:57.960 --> 00:25:58.619
reassuring.

571
00:25:58.740 --> 00:26:00.299
There's Tilly.

572
00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:01.319
There's Tilly.

573
00:26:01.380 --> 00:26:04.559
She pops her head out of the console.

574
00:26:04.619 --> 00:26:10.019
I mean, you know, it actually took you to point out just how good

575
00:26:10.019 --> 00:26:12.900
Saru was because I think I had written him off in series one.

576
00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:15.180
And then you said, no, keep an eye on that character.

577
00:26:15.180 --> 00:26:17.339
And by 2 and three.

578
00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:21.779
He's just the best character in this show. depths that he manages

579
00:26:21.779 --> 00:26:22.799
to give after that.

580
00:26:22.859 --> 00:26:26.819
It's Renee Aubergonoir levels of... under latex.

581
00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:32.880
And so it's Doug Jones, who is obviously the lead gentleman in

582
00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:34.380
Buffy's hush.

583
00:26:34.500 --> 00:26:36.599
We ever see his face.

584
00:26:36.660 --> 00:26:39.240
Well, no, we did see his face, didn't we, in that episode?

585
00:26:39.299 --> 00:26:40.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah. yep, yep.

586
00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:43.920
He's also the fish in face in shape of water.

587
00:26:43.980 --> 00:26:47.940
Nathan, I don't want to be this person, but that is not Talos 7.

588
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:49.859
No, no, no, it is.

589
00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:50.519
Of course it is.

590
00:26:50.579 --> 00:26:53.039
It's 10 or 7, but created in 2018.

591
00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:55.559
It's not what we're doing, Dog 2 again.

592
00:26:55.619 --> 00:26:56.339
We in a quarry.

593
00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:58.140
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

594
00:26:58.200 --> 00:27:01.259
But we've got a green sky and we've got a fisheye lens.

595
00:27:01.319 --> 00:27:06.839
You know, like, look at how big that shuttle looks as well.

596
00:27:06.900 --> 00:27:10.140
And the fantastic physical switches and stuff like that.

597
00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:15.359
Like there's a real feel of, like it feels real in a way that 90s

598
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:17.400
Shrek and certainly 60s Shrek never did.

599
00:27:17.460 --> 00:27:19.980
But it's also incredibly graded as well.

600
00:27:20.039 --> 00:27:21.779
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

601
00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:23.279
So it's a bit dull to look at.

602
00:27:23.339 --> 00:27:24.720
You know what they should have done?

603
00:27:24.779 --> 00:27:27.180
You know that set that they erect at conventions?

604
00:27:27.240 --> 00:27:30.059
They kept one of the early TNG planet sets.

605
00:27:30.119 --> 00:27:31.799
They should have just dragged that out.

606
00:27:32.099 --> 00:27:36.359
Yeah, that's right But it looks big and with the fish eye lens, it

607
00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:36.779
looks amazing.

608
00:27:36.839 --> 00:27:37.859
That's...

609
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:40.019
Yeah, sure, it's incredible going around.

610
00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:40.680
It looks amazing.

611
00:27:40.740 --> 00:27:42.779
Look how pretty she is.

612
00:27:42.839 --> 00:27:43.680
Holy crap.

613
00:27:43.740 --> 00:27:44.700
I am the problem.

614
00:27:44.759 --> 00:27:46.319
I am that person you were talking about earlier.

615
00:27:46.380 --> 00:27:48.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

616
00:27:48.059 --> 00:27:49.019
Needs to look more crap.

617
00:27:50.940 --> 00:27:52.680
Yes, please.

618
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:58.140
But look, and it's those same plants making the same singing noise

619
00:27:58.140 --> 00:28:03.660
delighting her brother in original, in original trek and now

620
00:28:03.660 --> 00:28:05.519
delighting her and just that.

621
00:28:05.579 --> 00:28:06.900
Look, it snaps closed.

622
00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:08.339
That's so lovely.

623
00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:12.359
I do need to bring this up whilst I remember, but this was the

624
00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:16.619
only episode that Jammer gave 4 stars to in the entire run of

625
00:28:16.619 --> 00:28:17.519
Discovery today.

626
00:28:17.579 --> 00:28:19.079
No, it's not very far.

627
00:28:19.140 --> 00:28:21.359
It's incredibly serious and not fun.

628
00:28:21.420 --> 00:28:23.220
I think you might be right about him, you know.

629
00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:24.960
But look at what Melissa Jaws.

630
00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:28.799
So this is Melissa George from Neighbours.

631
00:28:28.859 --> 00:28:34.259
And I think what's the character who the actor who plays Christine

632
00:28:34.259 --> 00:28:36.539
Chappel is Jess?

633
00:28:36.660 --> 00:28:38.099
Something?

634
00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:38.579
Bush?

635
00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:39.779
I can't remember.

636
00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:41.460
But she's from home and away.

637
00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:44.759
So we have, this is Australian soap stars again.

638
00:28:44.819 --> 00:28:48.539
And so Melissa George was a bit of a sort of household face in

639
00:28:48.539 --> 00:28:51.599
Australia and she probably won a silver Logie, who knows?

640
00:28:51.660 --> 00:28:54.900
But she's still at her IMDb page, you know.

641
00:28:54.960 --> 00:28:56.039
She did a lot of work.

642
00:28:56.099 --> 00:28:58.440
Yeah, she skipped over to America.

643
00:28:58.500 --> 00:29:01.019
So she's she's a face, you know, the people.

644
00:29:01.079 --> 00:29:01.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

645
00:29:01.559 --> 00:29:02.880
But I love the dress.

646
00:29:02.940 --> 00:29:03.779
Do you know what I mean?

647
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:05.279
The dress is very 60s.

648
00:29:05.339 --> 00:29:09.000
She's wearing a very short, but it's a sort of slightly science

649
00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:13.799
fiction-y updated version of the dress, but I think it...

650
00:29:13.859 --> 00:29:15.900
You know, my usual unfair comparisons.

651
00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:16.740
I'm gonna do one now.

652
00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:19.559
You remember that fabulous woman who played the pirate in Strange

653
00:29:19.559 --> 00:29:20.099
New Worlds?

654
00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:23.700
got to give that dreadful backstory and then saying, ah, I fold

655
00:29:23.700 --> 00:29:24.119
you all.

656
00:29:24.180 --> 00:29:26.579
Um, the fun she had.

657
00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:29.940
Poor Melissa George is stuck delivering exposition and looking

658
00:29:29.940 --> 00:29:32.460
very serious throughout being...

659
00:29:32.460 --> 00:29:34.319
It's a bit thankless.

660
00:29:34.380 --> 00:29:36.240
Yeah, yeah.

661
00:29:36.900 --> 00:29:40.500
At least you're not arguing. were you arguing?

662
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:44.099
Like, I always just sort of try and imagine what it would be like

663
00:29:44.099 --> 00:29:48.240
to, like, suddenly be on a sound stage with Mr. Spock.

664
00:29:48.299 --> 00:29:49.380
Do you know what I mean?

665
00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:51.539
I just got to think, wait, Mr. Spock is here.

666
00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:52.859
I'm doing a thing and he's there.

667
00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:56.400
I bet she was like Terry Farrell and trials and tribulations, you

668
00:29:56.400 --> 00:29:56.579
know?

669
00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:58.200
But it's James Kirk.

670
00:29:59.220 --> 00:30:02.160
Gosh, he's looking good too, isn't he?

671
00:30:02.220 --> 00:30:03.000
Holy crap.

672
00:30:03.059 --> 00:30:05.220
It is very blue, isn't it?

673
00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:06.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

674
00:30:06.539 --> 00:30:11.220
No, and they do do that, and they try, like, because they're not

675
00:30:11.220 --> 00:30:14.579
going to use sets for planets, and they haven't developed that big

676
00:30:14.579 --> 00:30:18.299
special effects wall yet. that they use to create planets with

677
00:30:18.299 --> 00:30:20.819
varying degrees of success on strange new worlds.

678
00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:25.920
Uh, you know, they use colour grading to try and make the the

679
00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:27.299
planet seem alien.

680
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:30.720
And, you know, I think that green sky is really effective.

681
00:30:30.779 --> 00:30:34.079
You know, they'll later go to places like Iceland and stuff and

682
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:35.220
shoot there.

683
00:30:35.279 --> 00:30:36.480
Oh, beginning of three.

684
00:30:36.539 --> 00:30:37.740
Yeah, stomach.

685
00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:38.220
Yeah, yeah.

686
00:30:38.279 --> 00:30:40.019
Yeah, it looks great. absolutely stunning.

687
00:30:41.460 --> 00:30:48.359
At the end of this episode, when Michael and Spock are together

688
00:30:48.359 --> 00:30:53.819
and they're replaying as adults, the scenes they had as kids.

689
00:30:53.819 --> 00:30:56.220
So what's the problem?

690
00:30:56.279 --> 00:31:00.539
Michael said to Spock, you know, you're half human and that's a

691
00:31:00.539 --> 00:31:00.839
problem.

692
00:31:00.900 --> 00:31:04.019
No, you're a weird little half breed and I don't like you.

693
00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:08.700
Like, and so we have a Spock that idolised Michael because Michael

694
00:31:08.700 --> 00:31:14.940
was older than her and made being humans seem fun to him, like

695
00:31:14.940 --> 00:31:16.259
seem not a bad thing.

696
00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:22.500
And so she solidly rejects him in such a way as to stop him

697
00:31:22.500 --> 00:31:23.400
feeling that way.

698
00:31:23.460 --> 00:31:27.539
Because we've seen Vulcan logic separatists write from series one

699
00:31:27.539 --> 00:31:28.259
of this show.

700
00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:34.559
And I think that's a sort of interesting idea because logic in the

701
00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:38.339
60s seems to be like the right way of going about thinking about

702
00:31:38.339 --> 00:31:38.880
things.

703
00:31:38.940 --> 00:31:39.960
Do you know what I mean?

704
00:31:40.019 --> 00:31:42.960
That logic leads you to the correct answers and stuff like that.

705
00:31:43.019 --> 00:31:46.859
And the argument against Spock is always that he doesn't use his

706
00:31:46.859 --> 00:31:49.559
guard or he doesn't trust his emotion and things like that.

707
00:31:49.619 --> 00:31:55.740
But, you know, we see now that logic leads people to all sorts of

708
00:31:55.740 --> 00:31:58.319
truly horrifying things as well.

709
00:31:58.380 --> 00:32:03.119
And, you know, people, like the sort of neck beards on Twitter who

710
00:32:03.119 --> 00:32:06.359
are expressing alt right opinions, who like to think of themselves

711
00:32:06.359 --> 00:32:08.039
as supremely logical.

712
00:32:08.099 --> 00:32:12.839
You know, like you can be logical and just a fucking asshole as

713
00:32:12.839 --> 00:32:16.200
well and come to fucking asshole conclusions.

714
00:32:16.259 --> 00:32:18.420
And so I like that.

715
00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:23.400
And I don't think it's the same violation of the Vulcans that, you

716
00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:24.599
know, enterprise is.

717
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:29.099
I don't, I don't like the scenes because I, I, I think they're

718
00:32:29.099 --> 00:32:33.359
dreary, but I like how it explains why he led into the logic and

719
00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:35.400
how he is, how he is in TOS.

720
00:32:35.460 --> 00:32:38.460
I thought, and that's something they can responsibly do with

721
00:32:38.460 --> 00:32:42.660
Discovery. is take a look at the past and, you know, later on, we

722
00:32:42.660 --> 00:32:45.119
just take a look at the past and generally sort of have a little

723
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:46.380
chore, you know.

724
00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:48.599
Yeah, can you believe they used to do that back then, you know?

725
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:49.740
It's a bit like that.

726
00:32:49.799 --> 00:32:52.680
But I mean, see, this is doing another thing too, where they have

727
00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:56.279
a woman playing one of those aliens, like the middle aliens played

728
00:32:56.279 --> 00:32:56.819
by a woman.

729
00:32:56.880 --> 00:33:00.900
And the original alien, the main hero alien in the cage is

730
00:33:00.900 --> 00:33:05.819
actually played by a woman in makeup and with a man's voice.

731
00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:09.599
She looks like my nanny 4, that woman, the original waggon again.

732
00:33:09.660 --> 00:33:10.200
Yeah.

733
00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:13.799
I wish did I tell you that before. whenever she came on in the

734
00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:14.160
credits.

735
00:33:14.220 --> 00:33:15.420
I used to go with Nanny Ford.

736
00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:18.960
And so there is how she looks, you know, in the cage at the end

737
00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:23.519
where we see what she's really like. is actually slightly less

738
00:33:23.519 --> 00:33:25.019
horrific than it was in the cage.

739
00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:27.960
Yeah, well, because she's all sort of bent over and weirdly

740
00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:28.799
misshapen.

741
00:33:28.859 --> 00:33:30.240
It just a close-up of her face.

742
00:33:30.299 --> 00:33:32.819
So, Melissa George, you know, we can't make them look for George.

743
00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:33.720
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

744
00:33:33.779 --> 00:33:35.460
But I mean, the other woman was very pretty as well.

745
00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:39.240
See, but I'm not sure, but then they've got big heads, but if

746
00:33:39.240 --> 00:33:41.940
you'd have told me those were the aliens from Talos 7, I'm not

747
00:33:41.940 --> 00:33:42.660
sure I'd buy it.

748
00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:45.119
Because they're just they're just not embarrassing enough.

749
00:33:45.180 --> 00:33:48.720
No, do you know what I like about them is that they're slightly

750
00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:54.119
translucent, that that, like when you see them in profile, the

751
00:33:54.119 --> 00:33:58.259
light, the ambient light shines through their noses a bit.

752
00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:00.900
So they're a little bit translucent and I think that that's

753
00:34:00.900 --> 00:34:01.259
interesting.

754
00:34:01.259 --> 00:34:03.839
And like human skin is sort of translucent and stuff like that.

755
00:34:03.900 --> 00:34:07.259
You know, like I like it.

756
00:34:07.319 --> 00:34:09.059
I think it looks interesting.

757
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:13.619
And you get the moving veins thing as well.

758
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:16.860
What I was waiting for in this episode and what they could pull

759
00:34:16.860 --> 00:34:21.659
off really well is the, um, you know, the square of grass, the

760
00:34:21.659 --> 00:34:22.619
picnic scene.

761
00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:25.019
They could do that now, amazingly.

762
00:34:25.079 --> 00:34:26.280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

763
00:34:26.340 --> 00:34:30.539
These haircuts, they give Burnham a spot back in the day, are a

764
00:34:30.539 --> 00:34:31.679
crime against nature.

765
00:34:31.739 --> 00:34:36.000
So when we 1st see Michael, she's got that hair card.

766
00:34:36.059 --> 00:34:37.860
No, no, when we 1st see her.

767
00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:43.920
When we when we see her in flashback joining Discovery 7 years

768
00:34:43.920 --> 00:34:45.719
before the opening episode.

769
00:34:45.780 --> 00:34:47.579
Yeah, isn't that great?

770
00:34:47.639 --> 00:34:48.659
That's so good.

771
00:34:49.019 --> 00:34:51.239
It looks like that Tardegrade from series one.

772
00:34:51.300 --> 00:34:52.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

773
00:34:52.559 --> 00:34:56.280
But I think eating Michael Burnham, which I think I love.

774
00:34:56.340 --> 00:34:57.360
Baby Spark.

775
00:34:57.420 --> 00:34:58.739
Tiny baby Spock.

776
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:02.400
Can I ask you a question about Michael Burnham?

777
00:35:02.460 --> 00:35:03.179
Yeah.

778
00:35:03.239 --> 00:35:04.860
Why do people like her?

779
00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:06.119
Because I hear this a lot.

780
00:35:06.179 --> 00:35:08.280
People really object to this character.

781
00:35:08.340 --> 00:35:11.159
Yeah, I think a huge amount of it.

782
00:35:11.219 --> 00:35:15.360
It's the same that is behind people disliking Ray and Jodie

783
00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:16.500
Whitaker as the doctor.

784
00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:19.920
I think that the show came back.

785
00:35:19.980 --> 00:35:24.000
The 1st scene has a scene that passes the Bechdell test. and has

786
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:28.079
no white people in it and people are angry at a show that centres

787
00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:30.179
a black woman, like, frankly.

788
00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:32.940
I think that that's a huge reason for it.

789
00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:38.340
So you're saying a fair portion of this audience that like this

790
00:35:38.340 --> 00:35:41.639
show that's all about tolerance are intolerant.

791
00:35:41.699 --> 00:35:42.360
Oh, yeah.

792
00:35:42.420 --> 00:35:43.139
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

793
00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:43.800
Yeah.

794
00:35:43.860 --> 00:35:45.300
And you see it all the time online.

795
00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:47.039
But all of them are like that.

796
00:35:47.099 --> 00:35:51.119
You know, like how are Star Wars fans all, all, all right when the

797
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:54.119
the Empire, the fucking Nazis, do you know what I mean?

798
00:35:54.239 --> 00:35:58.199
Like, these are people who are bad at criticism and like space

799
00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:01.980
things and aliens and stuff and white people.

800
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:03.360
And so they're angry about that.

801
00:36:03.420 --> 00:36:11.820
I think, though, that I think that they, that, that the weepy

802
00:36:11.820 --> 00:36:15.420
Burnham of series 2 is a bit of a problem and that they don't let

803
00:36:15.420 --> 00:36:16.380
her have enough fun.

804
00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:19.559
And because terrible things are happening to her all the time

805
00:36:19.559 --> 00:36:21.000
that's a problem.

806
00:36:21.179 --> 00:36:25.320
And I also don't think that people liked the the version of the

807
00:36:25.320 --> 00:36:29.280
show that doesn't have the bridge crew as the main characters that

808
00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:30.300
that was off putting.

809
00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:33.960
So, you know, it's always the captain that gets top billing.

810
00:36:34.019 --> 00:36:36.719
We're talking over the destruction of all sentient life in the

811
00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:39.539
galaxy, by the way. say that was an extraordinary...

812
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:41.519
Yeah, actually impressive.

813
00:36:41.579 --> 00:36:45.960
A bit where it was like a flower spitting out pollen where the

814
00:36:45.960 --> 00:36:48.179
things got all the ships come out of the other ship.

815
00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:49.199
That was amazing.

816
00:36:49.260 --> 00:36:51.900
And that's the sort of thing Discovery can do.

817
00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:54.360
No one else. and they look like nothing that we've ever seen on

818
00:36:54.360 --> 00:36:55.079
Star Trek before.

819
00:36:55.139 --> 00:36:56.820
They don't look like Borg or anything like that.

820
00:36:56.880 --> 00:36:59.820
They look like sort of little weird lamprey flower things.

821
00:36:59.880 --> 00:37:02.760
I remember in that true episode that we did that.

822
00:37:02.820 --> 00:37:06.119
Forget me not, where we panned across a planet, and it was just a

823
00:37:06.119 --> 00:37:09.420
location shop, and they've enhanced it with dancing flowers and

824
00:37:09.420 --> 00:37:10.619
insects and all that.

825
00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:13.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

826
00:37:13.260 --> 00:37:15.300
Going back to what you were saying about having a woman in the

827
00:37:15.300 --> 00:37:15.840
lead role.

828
00:37:15.900 --> 00:37:17.579
It's the same with Janeway as well.

829
00:37:17.639 --> 00:37:20.159
And it's definitely the same with Jodie Whisker's doctor, is they

830
00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:23.519
always have to be incredible because there is an audience there.

831
00:37:23.579 --> 00:37:25.559
The 2nd they falter, like she does in this season.

832
00:37:25.619 --> 00:37:26.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

833
00:37:26.699 --> 00:37:29.460
They're there and they leap on it and say, well, see, we told you

834
00:37:29.460 --> 00:37:30.360
this wasn't going to work.

835
00:37:30.420 --> 00:37:31.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

836
00:37:31.559 --> 00:37:35.639
And it's also like there's a sort of group of fans who, when a

837
00:37:35.639 --> 00:37:38.159
character is presented as being supremely confident.

838
00:37:38.219 --> 00:37:41.400
If that's a man, like confident and competent.

839
00:37:41.460 --> 00:37:43.019
If that's a man, that's fine.

840
00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:47.639
So Luke Skywalker, you know, didn't know that he had the force, but

841
00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:50.880
suddenly he's, you know, destroying space station single-handedly

842
00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:52.019
at the end of the film.

843
00:37:52.139 --> 00:37:56.880
When Ray does the same thing in Force Awakens, they say that's

844
00:37:56.880 --> 00:38:01.260
unrealistic and she's a Mary Sue and all of those sorts of just

845
00:38:01.260 --> 00:38:05.699
crappy poor excuses for criticism, I think.

846
00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:08.099
We've still got a long way to go, haven't we?

847
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:09.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

848
00:38:09.900 --> 00:38:13.619
What I do like, though, is the inverse of that is I love how the

849
00:38:13.619 --> 00:38:17.519
men are shown to feel in this show.

850
00:38:17.579 --> 00:38:22.139
So this sequence here is a great example of that between Culbert

851
00:38:22.139 --> 00:38:24.059
and I forget his name, Stamets.

852
00:38:24.119 --> 00:38:24.539
Yeah.

853
00:38:25.019 --> 00:38:31.019
Yeah, this would almost be unthinkable at any point in Star Trek

854
00:38:31.019 --> 00:38:31.380
before this.

855
00:38:31.440 --> 00:38:33.000
Oh yeah, yeah.

856
00:38:33.059 --> 00:38:33.599
Yeah.

857
00:38:33.659 --> 00:38:35.940
And and like...

858
00:38:35.940 --> 00:38:40.860
Like Paul, like this is like nothing anyone's ever experienced.

859
00:38:40.920 --> 00:38:41.639
Do you know what I mean?

860
00:38:41.699 --> 00:38:44.039
Maybe it's happened to people where they thought someone was dead

861
00:38:44.039 --> 00:38:44.760
and they come back.

862
00:38:44.820 --> 00:38:46.500
Like maybe that's a thing that happens.

863
00:38:46.559 --> 00:38:49.980
It doesn't sound very plausible, but it must happen sometimes.

864
00:38:50.039 --> 00:38:52.800
But this, do you know what I mean?

865
00:38:52.860 --> 00:38:56.400
Like he thinks that this huge loss, this worst thing that ever

866
00:38:56.400 --> 00:39:03.000
happened to him has stopped, but it hasn't, you know, that they're

867
00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:04.260
not together, like.

868
00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:09.179
Oh, but that line he has about, why are you so angry with me?

869
00:39:09.239 --> 00:39:10.199
Yeah, yeah.

870
00:39:10.260 --> 00:39:11.400
That's a good question.

871
00:39:11.460 --> 00:39:14.039
That's a good question, but he doesn't know either.

872
00:39:14.099 --> 00:39:15.179
Like, he doesn't know either.

873
00:39:15.300 --> 00:39:20.579
And it doesn't even get better after he confronts Tyler, does it?

874
00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:24.300
No, and I think that's why they play out. while.

875
00:39:24.360 --> 00:39:24.719
Yeah.

876
00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:25.139
Yeah.

877
00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:26.400
You are right.

878
00:39:26.460 --> 00:39:26.940
The lighting.

879
00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:27.659
Look at the light in here.

880
00:39:27.719 --> 00:39:29.280
It's beautiful, isn't it?

881
00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:30.719
Yeah.

882
00:39:30.780 --> 00:39:34.199
A few times they bother to do that in 90s trek.

883
00:39:34.260 --> 00:39:35.460
It's it's great.

884
00:39:35.579 --> 00:39:38.820
It's so annoying that they didn't go, you know, that really

885
00:39:38.820 --> 00:39:39.119
works.

886
00:39:39.179 --> 00:39:43.679
Well, when they do it, when they do it in generations and we see

887
00:39:43.679 --> 00:39:47.639
10 forward lit by the light of a star outside and you just think

888
00:39:47.639 --> 00:39:50.880
wow, that looks incredible. everyone was confused as to why we

889
00:39:50.880 --> 00:39:52.199
weren't on the Enterprise anymore.

890
00:39:52.380 --> 00:39:54.420
Where's this sweat?

891
00:39:54.599 --> 00:39:57.000
With a light coming in the windows.

892
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:01.739
Do you think...

893
00:40:01.739 --> 00:40:08.519
If this is kind of a love letter to the cage, is there a problem

894
00:40:08.519 --> 00:40:11.039
that there's all this other stuff going on that we're sort of

895
00:40:11.039 --> 00:40:12.300
pulled away from it all the time?

896
00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:15.900
No, because I think there's probably not enough there.

897
00:40:16.019 --> 00:40:21.059
I just think, you know, there's a lot of balls in the air, just

898
00:40:21.059 --> 00:40:22.380
like there were the previous year.

899
00:40:22.440 --> 00:40:25.920
I mean, part of the fun of the previous year, I thought, was the

900
00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:29.219
mystery of who Volk was or who Ash was.

901
00:40:29.340 --> 00:40:30.179
Do you know what I mean?

902
00:40:30.239 --> 00:40:36.059
And they even created a fake IMDb profile for Vogue. and stuff.

903
00:40:36.119 --> 00:40:37.980
And, you know...

904
00:40:38.099 --> 00:40:39.420
They knew how to treat their audience.

905
00:40:40.199 --> 00:40:41.340
Who's law car?

906
00:40:41.340 --> 00:40:44.219
And all of that stuff, which was not the sort of thing that we'd

907
00:40:44.219 --> 00:40:47.699
ever had like big plot twists in Star Trek before, like maybe

908
00:40:47.699 --> 00:40:52.619
Cesca. you know, in Voyager, but otherwise we hadn't had it.

909
00:40:52.679 --> 00:40:53.460
DS9?

910
00:40:53.460 --> 00:40:56.400
Yeah, but we had long-term mysteries in the same way.

911
00:40:56.460 --> 00:40:59.699
It was just like this character that we'd seen in the background a

912
00:40:59.699 --> 00:41:01.199
bit now we discover they're evil.

913
00:41:01.260 --> 00:41:03.960
Like this was a little bit more central to the show.

914
00:41:04.019 --> 00:41:07.440
The local one was great because we kept having scenes of him in a

915
00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:10.800
dark room, sort of looking dancing after he'd been, you know, the

916
00:41:10.800 --> 00:41:11.820
good captain in there.

917
00:41:11.880 --> 00:41:13.860
What is going on with this guy?

918
00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:17.639
Well, like, Discovery's quite a horrible place, I think, in that

919
00:41:17.639 --> 00:41:21.239
1st season where they're torturing the Tartar grade, and, you know

920
00:41:21.239 --> 00:41:25.260
everyone's horrible to Michael, like, and Paul's a prick and all

921
00:41:25.260 --> 00:41:25.500
that.

922
00:41:25.559 --> 00:41:28.920
You almost put your finger on why I wasn't keen.

923
00:41:29.039 --> 00:41:33.119
I'm so used to these ensemble show as well, everyone's pallid.

924
00:41:33.179 --> 00:41:36.360
Everything's nice and everyone loves one and all. you know, there

925
00:41:36.360 --> 00:41:37.619
was no dreadful banter.

926
00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:38.639
Everyone's talking about people.

927
00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:41.820
Well, like Strange New Worlds is like that.

928
00:41:41.880 --> 00:41:45.000
It's a lovely cast of people who we love and like hanging out

929
00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:45.360
with.

930
00:41:45.420 --> 00:41:47.219
And this show develops into that.

931
00:41:47.579 --> 00:41:48.960
Yeah.

932
00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:51.539
I can remember the beard, the moment.

933
00:41:54.599 --> 00:41:55.500
There you go.

934
00:41:55.559 --> 00:41:57.599
I mean, look at this cave set.

935
00:41:57.659 --> 00:42:02.880
This is like starkly lit and, you know, dramatically lit.

936
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:04.019
But you're right.

937
00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:05.519
It's all very sombre, isn't it?

938
00:42:05.579 --> 00:42:06.480
Yeah, yeah.

939
00:42:06.539 --> 00:42:07.320
Yeah, yeah.

940
00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:10.860
I thought we were going to be.

941
00:42:10.920 --> 00:42:13.500
I thought we were going to be having fun with the aliens and they

942
00:42:13.500 --> 00:42:16.260
were going to be putting visions in their heads and, you know

943
00:42:16.260 --> 00:42:18.960
sending them on picnics, that kind of thing.

944
00:42:19.679 --> 00:42:23.639
We did get to see baby Michael Chase by a monster. was pretty

945
00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:23.880
cool.

946
00:42:24.900 --> 00:42:29.159
So we're getting the angel thing.

947
00:42:29.219 --> 00:42:32.159
Apparently in a latest Star Trek episode or an earlier Star Trek

948
00:42:32.159 --> 00:42:37.320
episode, uh, Spock says he's never mind mind melded with a human

949
00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:41.460
before, but clearly he does that here with Michael's mother

950
00:42:41.460 --> 00:42:46.079
through the um, Blue Angel, the Red Angel suit.

951
00:42:46.139 --> 00:42:48.420
But even then he says he doesn't get that much from her.

952
00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:49.260
I think.

953
00:42:49.380 --> 00:42:53.340
Well, one thing that sticks with me from this whole red angel

954
00:42:53.340 --> 00:42:59.579
thing is that very sort of foreboding image of the suit with the

955
00:42:59.579 --> 00:43:00.659
red light behind it.

956
00:43:00.719 --> 00:43:04.139
But I don't remember anything beyond that apart from a load of

957
00:43:04.139 --> 00:43:06.900
weepy scenes between Michael and her mum and...

958
00:43:06.900 --> 00:43:07.380
Yeah, yeah.

959
00:43:07.380 --> 00:43:10.079
Well, that sort of just skipped out of my head.

960
00:43:10.199 --> 00:43:15.960
And there's a very much more low-key reunion in series three

961
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:20.340
remember, when Michael meets her mother again and she's become one

962
00:43:20.340 --> 00:43:23.400
of the Romulan sincerity nuns.

963
00:43:23.579 --> 00:43:29.940
And, uh, you know, we're sort of on Navarre and stuff and we don't

964
00:43:29.940 --> 00:43:32.639
have all of that crap, like it's all a little bit less kind of

965
00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:33.360
overwrought.

966
00:43:34.139 --> 00:43:38.340
Melissa George has the most incredible lips, doesn't she?

967
00:43:38.400 --> 00:43:39.300
Yeah, doesn't she?

968
00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:39.900
She's stunning.

969
00:43:39.960 --> 00:43:41.280
She was born to pow.

970
00:43:41.400 --> 00:43:42.300
Yeah.

971
00:43:42.360 --> 00:43:42.960
Yeah.

972
00:43:43.079 --> 00:43:46.019
No, she's a good version of Vina, I think.

973
00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:49.920
So what's happening here?

974
00:43:49.980 --> 00:43:53.099
Spock is in an asylum, by all accounts.

975
00:43:53.159 --> 00:43:54.960
It looks a bit like that, bit in DS9.

976
00:43:55.139 --> 00:43:57.179
Remember when Cisco was writing all over the walls?

977
00:43:57.239 --> 00:44:01.260
Yeah, so we've actually seen video of this that ends with spot

978
00:44:01.260 --> 00:44:06.179
killing the 3 people who come in and that's faked, I think, by

979
00:44:06.179 --> 00:44:07.139
section 31.

980
00:44:07.380 --> 00:44:11.699
And so the whole 1st half of this season is where's Spock when

981
00:44:11.699 --> 00:44:14.460
Spock going to join us and that's one of the sort of ongoing

982
00:44:14.460 --> 00:44:15.179
things.

983
00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:16.199
Spock's gone missing.

984
00:44:16.260 --> 00:44:17.519
Look at the hot guy on the ride.

985
00:44:17.579 --> 00:44:20.579
The unfortunate thing about bringing him in though.

986
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:25.260
I remember watching this and preferring being with Spock and Pike

987
00:44:25.260 --> 00:44:28.139
than I did with the Discovery crew because they were so well

988
00:44:28.139 --> 00:44:28.440
done.

989
00:44:28.500 --> 00:44:29.280
Both of them.

990
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:31.980
What a surprise they've had their own...

991
00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:32.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

992
00:44:32.639 --> 00:44:33.659
Well, Una as well.

993
00:44:33.719 --> 00:44:36.539
Do you remember there's a scene where Una's on discovery, where

994
00:44:36.539 --> 00:44:39.480
number one's on discovery, eating a burger and stuff and she's

995
00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:40.739
just as cool as anything.

996
00:44:40.860 --> 00:44:42.840
She was around, was she?

997
00:44:42.900 --> 00:44:43.739
I don't seem to remember.

998
00:44:43.739 --> 00:44:44.039
No.

999
00:44:44.039 --> 00:44:48.420
But one of the short tracks is Spock's 1st day on board the

1000
00:44:48.420 --> 00:44:52.380
Enterprise and her meeting Una, and that's really fun.

1001
00:44:52.440 --> 00:44:55.920
I've got to say just for handing us hotspock.

1002
00:44:55.980 --> 00:44:57.780
Discovery has singlehandedly.

1003
00:44:57.840 --> 00:45:00.659
Yeah, but it's earnest.

1004
00:45:00.659 --> 00:45:01.980
Hey, that's justified.

1005
00:45:02.039 --> 00:45:04.860
Well, you know, launching Strange New Worlds.

1006
00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:07.500
Like, I think Strangely Worlds is a much more fun version of Star

1007
00:45:07.500 --> 00:45:08.219
Trek than this.

1008
00:45:08.340 --> 00:45:11.820
And this is trying to be more sort of serious and complicated

1009
00:45:11.820 --> 00:45:14.099
which, you know, is worth a try.

1010
00:45:14.159 --> 00:45:16.019
And I'd like to see it try again.

1011
00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:18.900
I mean, they try it with Picard, I think, with varying degrees of

1012
00:45:18.900 --> 00:45:19.559
success as well.

1013
00:45:19.739 --> 00:45:22.619
Um, Yeah.

1014
00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:24.059
Yeah, it's weird, isn't it?

1015
00:45:24.119 --> 00:45:29.400
Because I think Picard and Discovery are the 2 most interesting

1016
00:45:29.400 --> 00:45:33.420
the most substantial of the new Kurtzman shows and they're my 2

1017
00:45:33.420 --> 00:45:34.199
least favourites.

1018
00:45:34.260 --> 00:45:34.860
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1019
00:45:34.860 --> 00:45:37.739
So maybe I just like Star Trek 3 be a big disposable.

1020
00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:38.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1021
00:45:38.820 --> 00:45:42.480
Though I think I think that having a suite of shows that all is

1022
00:45:42.480 --> 00:45:45.300
trying to do different things in a way that we did in the 90s

1023
00:45:45.300 --> 00:45:48.480
where everything, you know, D Space 9 is its own thing and does

1024
00:45:48.480 --> 00:45:51.300
different things, but they all, they're all of a look and they're

1025
00:45:51.300 --> 00:45:54.719
all set in the same time period and all of that sort of thing.

1026
00:45:54.780 --> 00:45:57.960
Like having a suite of shows that's all vastly different is more

1027
00:45:57.960 --> 00:45:58.619
interesting, I think.

1028
00:45:58.679 --> 00:46:02.639
Fast coming to the conclusion, talking with you, that DS9 is

1029
00:46:02.639 --> 00:46:06.719
actually the biggest comic or cartoon starship we ever got.

1030
00:46:06.840 --> 00:46:09.360
Yeah, you know, the top characters.

1031
00:46:09.420 --> 00:46:10.860
Yeah, yeah.

1032
00:46:10.920 --> 00:46:12.119
Well, it's a sitcom.

1033
00:46:12.179 --> 00:46:15.239
Those are sitcom characters that behave in sort of predictable

1034
00:46:15.239 --> 00:46:18.239
ways that are fun to watch for that reason and because you can

1035
00:46:18.239 --> 00:46:19.920
violate expectations with them as well.

1036
00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:25.380
Whereas you couldn't do that with a character on, you know, and

1037
00:46:25.380 --> 00:46:27.599
you know, Star Trek, the Next Generation, because they're all just

1038
00:46:27.599 --> 00:46:28.199
their jobs.

1039
00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:31.860
I didn't realise this was the turbo lift this scene.

1040
00:46:31.980 --> 00:46:33.360
It's like, what room's he in?

1041
00:46:33.420 --> 00:46:37.800
Talk with this old base. sort of long form season storytelling is

1042
00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:41.880
if you're not on board with that season story, you're in a lot of

1043
00:46:41.880 --> 00:46:42.119
trouble.

1044
00:46:42.360 --> 00:46:46.199
Yeah, although different episodes can be more successful than

1045
00:46:46.199 --> 00:46:46.679
others.

1046
00:46:46.739 --> 00:46:50.099
Part of the problem with our show is that we're doing random

1047
00:46:50.099 --> 00:46:55.199
episodes and this is not something that this version of Star Trek

1048
00:46:55.199 --> 00:46:56.940
works particularly well with...

1049
00:46:56.940 --> 00:47:01.739
USTP is almost entirely perfect with 90s trek, isn't it?

1050
00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:03.179
standalone episode.

1051
00:47:03.179 --> 00:47:04.320
No consequences.

1052
00:47:04.380 --> 00:47:06.119
It doesn't matter what order you watch it in.

1053
00:47:06.300 --> 00:47:09.719
They're all standalone and they're basically either good or bad.

1054
00:47:09.780 --> 00:47:12.119
Whereas I'm fine with these Kurtzman episodes.

1055
00:47:12.179 --> 00:47:12.539
Yeah.

1056
00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:17.159
There's not really... out and out classics and there's not really

1057
00:47:17.159 --> 00:47:18.539
out and out duds.

1058
00:47:18.599 --> 00:47:21.659
There's good and bad in all the extra...

1059
00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:23.820
Except strange new worlds.

1060
00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:25.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1061
00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:27.300
Oh, now this, right.

1062
00:47:27.360 --> 00:47:31.320
What I think is really interesting here. is like they just

1063
00:47:31.320 --> 00:47:32.400
decide.

1064
00:47:32.460 --> 00:47:36.659
So, Saru says this has to be allowed to play out.

1065
00:47:36.780 --> 00:47:41.039
And you kind of think, no, no, how is that being permitted?

1066
00:47:41.099 --> 00:47:42.119
How are we not stopping it?

1067
00:47:42.179 --> 00:47:46.739
And like, I think it's, I actually think it's okay.

1068
00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:49.019
I think, you know, yes, let them do this.

1069
00:47:49.079 --> 00:47:51.179
What possible rules can there be about this?

1070
00:47:51.239 --> 00:47:55.380
You know, and we know that Ash is a good man and doesn't want to

1071
00:47:55.380 --> 00:47:57.059
hurt Hugh.

1072
00:47:57.059 --> 00:48:01.380
And we know, you know, like, like, look, they're holding one

1073
00:48:01.380 --> 00:48:04.920
another and they rest against one another when they're tired.

1074
00:48:04.980 --> 00:48:08.579
You know, like it's, and it doesn't work.

1075
00:48:08.639 --> 00:48:09.480
That's the thing.

1076
00:48:09.539 --> 00:48:11.280
He finds that it doesn't satisfy him.

1077
00:48:11.400 --> 00:48:13.980
It doesn't help to have beaten, look at that.

1078
00:48:14.039 --> 00:48:14.639
Look at that.

1079
00:48:14.699 --> 00:48:18.300
They're supporting one another. holding one another up.

1080
00:48:18.360 --> 00:48:21.300
And this, I don't even know who I am anymore.

1081
00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:24.900
And he replies, who do you think you're talking to?

1082
00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:25.980
It's me.

1083
00:48:26.039 --> 00:48:27.000
I was vogue.

1084
00:48:27.059 --> 00:48:28.559
You know, I don't know who I am either.

1085
00:48:28.619 --> 00:48:32.880
It's, you know, and I, I, oh, look, doesn't he look beautiful with

1086
00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:33.719
his hair?

1087
00:48:33.780 --> 00:48:36.119
I did want to join you in that conversation there, but I was just

1088
00:48:36.119 --> 00:48:37.619
mesmerised by the pair of them.

1089
00:48:37.739 --> 00:48:41.760
What it actually reminded me of was the scene I told you about in

1090
00:48:41.760 --> 00:48:44.460
Voyager, where Chakotay slugs someone in the mess hole.

1091
00:48:44.519 --> 00:48:45.420
Yeah.

1092
00:48:45.420 --> 00:48:49.139
And it's just in no way as effective as that because Voyager

1093
00:48:49.139 --> 00:48:51.420
rejected that sort of conflict, didn't it?

1094
00:48:51.480 --> 00:48:52.980
Look at this scene.

1095
00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:56.639
You allowed the fight to proceed.

1096
00:48:56.639 --> 00:48:59.159
And he says, yes, you know, we needed the catharsis.

1097
00:48:59.159 --> 00:49:03.420
And then and then Pike says it's not by the book.

1098
00:49:03.420 --> 00:49:07.559
And then he goes, oh, the Starfleet manual offers no regulatory

1099
00:49:07.559 --> 00:49:11.039
guidelines for interactions between humans with Klingons grafted

1100
00:49:11.039 --> 00:49:13.860
onto their bones. you know, like this is an absurd situation and

1101
00:49:13.860 --> 00:49:16.380
I'm not going to be by the book and he's being silly.

1102
00:49:16.440 --> 00:49:19.019
Like the way he delivers the line is hilarious.

1103
00:49:19.079 --> 00:49:23.280
I'm sorry, all I could notice was the fact that the camera was

1104
00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:24.960
spinning for no reason.

1105
00:49:25.019 --> 00:49:27.900
It was just turning for no reason.

1106
00:49:27.960 --> 00:49:30.179
I don't know why.

1107
00:49:30.179 --> 00:49:33.360
I feel as if it's trying to tell me that something is occurring in

1108
00:49:33.360 --> 00:49:35.760
the story when the camera is moving like that, but it's not.

1109
00:49:35.820 --> 00:49:36.840
They're just in the lift.

1110
00:49:37.440 --> 00:49:40.019
I think it tries too hard sometimes.

1111
00:49:40.079 --> 00:49:41.099
It's visual interest.

1112
00:49:41.159 --> 00:49:43.800
No, no, no, I think I think visual distraction.

1113
00:49:44.639 --> 00:49:50.280
But we're reacting against a show that was very, very boringly

1114
00:49:50.280 --> 00:49:55.260
directed on the whole or a whole suite of shows that were boringly

1115
00:49:55.260 --> 00:49:55.619
directed.

1116
00:49:56.159 --> 00:50:00.659
And, you know, we're also doing this in the context of the film.

1117
00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:04.440
So I think it'd be interesting for us to do like a modern Star

1118
00:50:04.440 --> 00:50:07.199
Trek film, one of the, you know, film.

1119
00:50:07.260 --> 00:50:09.960
But I think they've learned from this as well, because it's

1120
00:50:09.960 --> 00:50:13.079
strangely wells is not directed like this at all.

1121
00:50:13.139 --> 00:50:15.360
They do visually interesting things.

1122
00:50:15.420 --> 00:50:18.480
They don't do all this weird camera work for no reason

1123
00:50:18.480 --> 00:50:19.139
whatsoever.

1124
00:50:19.199 --> 00:50:20.699
So they're learning.

1125
00:50:20.760 --> 00:50:22.320
Doesn't Frekes do it?

1126
00:50:22.380 --> 00:50:23.460
I'm sure Frank still does it.

1127
00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:25.619
I'll put one on.

1128
00:50:25.679 --> 00:50:27.059
Any excuse to watch that show.

1129
00:50:27.420 --> 00:50:30.659
It's got to be chosen soon on the random line.

1130
00:50:30.719 --> 00:50:36.719
I don't care how few episodes we've got to watch Oh yeah, so we

1131
00:50:36.719 --> 00:50:38.940
needed this scene between Pike and Vina, didn't we?

1132
00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:40.500
the big love story from the cage.

1133
00:50:40.559 --> 00:50:41.880
Yeah, yeah.

1134
00:50:41.940 --> 00:50:46.320
Yeah, and I can't really quite remember because I know, so she

1135
00:50:46.320 --> 00:50:49.920
ends up with a fake pike at the end of the cage.

1136
00:50:49.980 --> 00:50:50.880
Is that right?

1137
00:50:51.239 --> 00:50:55.320
And then we cut it together a bit differently for the menagerie

1138
00:50:55.320 --> 00:50:56.400
part two.

1139
00:50:56.400 --> 00:51:01.739
And so she's being led off by the real pike, but it's the same

1140
00:51:01.739 --> 00:51:05.880
shot from the cage and it's, no, yeah, because the real pike's

1141
00:51:05.880 --> 00:51:06.599
then been restored.

1142
00:51:06.659 --> 00:51:09.900
And the thing is, they can give us sort of all this romantic

1143
00:51:09.900 --> 00:51:13.320
lighting and frame them in silhouette on all of this and make it

1144
00:51:13.320 --> 00:51:16.079
look like they were, but it's nowhere near as hot as that previous

1145
00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:17.039
scene in the mess hole.

1146
00:51:17.099 --> 00:51:17.820
No, that's true.

1147
00:51:17.880 --> 00:51:21.059
But that bit where they 2 came away from each other, I was like

1148
00:51:21.059 --> 00:51:23.699
they're going to fuck any man any 2nd now.

1149
00:51:24.119 --> 00:51:31.980
So, what I also like, and it's something that they, that's the

1150
00:51:31.980 --> 00:51:35.880
right decision, that they, they could so easily have got wrong

1151
00:51:35.880 --> 00:51:44.159
which is finding a way to get out of this not to happen.

1152
00:51:44.280 --> 00:51:47.699
Like, so what's going to happen to Pikes, that he'll be killed in

1153
00:51:47.699 --> 00:51:52.320
a horrible accident and reduce to this sort of utterly terrifying

1154
00:51:52.320 --> 00:51:57.179
existence from which is essentially...

1155
00:51:57.239 --> 00:51:57.840
Yeah, yeah.

1156
00:51:57.900 --> 00:51:59.519
So but it, yes.

1157
00:51:59.579 --> 00:52:02.760
In fact, what Strange New Worlds doesn't try and get out of it.

1158
00:52:02.820 --> 00:52:04.139
That's what I think is happening.

1159
00:52:04.199 --> 00:52:06.840
The reason that we're doing this is the one thing we know about

1160
00:52:06.840 --> 00:52:09.659
pike is what happens to him in the menagerie.

1161
00:52:09.719 --> 00:52:12.960
You know, the cage wasn't originally part of the show's run, and I

1162
00:52:12.960 --> 00:52:16.380
don't think anyone just saw it as a show until much, much later.

1163
00:52:16.500 --> 00:52:17.219
Yeah.

1164
00:52:17.219 --> 00:52:22.559
And so the one thing we know about Pike is he ends up in that

1165
00:52:22.559 --> 00:52:23.039
chair.

1166
00:52:23.099 --> 00:52:28.739
Yeah. and just and Una even says, you know, time might not be

1167
00:52:28.739 --> 00:52:29.159
fixed.

1168
00:52:29.219 --> 00:52:33.119
You don't know how this is going to end, and the final episode of

1169
00:52:33.119 --> 00:52:35.820
series one of Strange New Worlds absolutely says there's no way

1170
00:52:35.820 --> 00:52:37.019
out of this for Pike.

1171
00:52:37.079 --> 00:52:42.000
And you know, that there is something comforting and safe about

1172
00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:45.360
watching that show kind of knowing where those characters are all

1173
00:52:45.360 --> 00:52:45.900
going to end up.

1174
00:52:45.960 --> 00:52:47.159
I can't explain it.

1175
00:52:47.219 --> 00:52:48.059
It is.

1176
00:52:48.179 --> 00:52:51.119
Like they can put them in danger, things like, well, we kind of

1177
00:52:51.119 --> 00:52:54.000
know Spock's going to go on to be on the Enterprise, Sojahura.

1178
00:52:54.059 --> 00:52:57.119
So number one, I quite like that.

1179
00:52:57.179 --> 00:52:59.579
You'd think that would be the death of a series, wouldn't you?

1180
00:52:59.639 --> 00:53:03.780
Well, in fact, one of the fun things about those old scientists

1181
00:53:03.780 --> 00:53:11.099
was that at that point, Spock and Christina in a relationship.

1182
00:53:11.460 --> 00:53:16.320
And of course it can't go anywhere because we know what Spock ends

1183
00:53:16.320 --> 00:53:19.079
up being like and what ends up happening to him.

1184
00:53:19.139 --> 00:53:21.780
But that had not really occurred to me because they'd been

1185
00:53:21.780 --> 00:53:23.940
invested in it in the context of the show.

1186
00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:28.199
And so you have a Star Trek fan in Boheemler coming along to point

1187
00:53:28.199 --> 00:53:31.139
out that the relationship doesn't go anywhere because of course it

1188
00:53:31.139 --> 00:53:31.559
can't.

1189
00:53:31.679 --> 00:53:33.780
It's the best episode ever.

1190
00:53:33.840 --> 00:53:37.500
But it means they get to have fun with that continuity as well, to

1191
00:53:37.500 --> 00:53:39.059
suggest, you know, are they going to change this?

1192
00:53:39.119 --> 00:53:43.199
Because we know that in a mock time, you know, he's fighting over

1193
00:53:43.199 --> 00:53:44.400
that woman on the planet.

1194
00:53:44.940 --> 00:53:49.679
But also as well, I just think there's a great feeling of we're

1195
00:53:49.679 --> 00:53:51.900
going to go on a hell of an adventure before we get to that

1196
00:53:51.900 --> 00:53:52.199
point.

1197
00:53:52.260 --> 00:53:53.760
Let's go on a rise, you know?

1198
00:53:53.820 --> 00:53:54.780
that's that's fun.

1199
00:53:54.900 --> 00:53:55.920
I think so too.

1200
00:53:56.099 --> 00:54:01.019
I mean, I like how kind of difficult the difficult relationship

1201
00:54:01.019 --> 00:54:04.199
this show has with continuity just generally in these 1st 2

1202
00:54:04.199 --> 00:54:04.860
seasons.

1203
00:54:04.920 --> 00:54:07.199
What were those things just lying in there then?

1204
00:54:07.260 --> 00:54:08.639
They're cleaning up.

1205
00:54:08.699 --> 00:54:10.800
They're cleaning up the mass up brawl.

1206
00:54:10.860 --> 00:54:13.619
Did you see me staring at the screen like an old man?

1207
00:54:15.780 --> 00:54:19.380
I'm just too old to watch Discovery, I think.

1208
00:54:19.380 --> 00:54:21.059
Do you remember the dots as well?

1209
00:54:21.119 --> 00:54:22.559
The little the little dots?

1210
00:54:22.619 --> 00:54:23.699
Yeah.

1211
00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:24.659
Yeah.

1212
00:54:24.719 --> 00:54:29.699
In that, yeah, that late series 3 episode we watched for USTP.

1213
00:54:29.760 --> 00:54:34.500
What's great about this is entirely rejecting, you know, our

1214
00:54:34.500 --> 00:54:35.880
standard TNG.

1215
00:54:35.940 --> 00:54:39.539
Dr. Crusher has repaired everyone with her usual skill because

1216
00:54:39.539 --> 00:54:41.280
there is an episode where Troy is killed.

1217
00:54:41.340 --> 00:54:45.119
And then they go, look, we've got 11 minutes of her being dead and

1218
00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:47.639
then I have to bring her back and then she's in the next scene.

1219
00:54:47.699 --> 00:54:49.980
She goes, oh, so I sleep on something like that.

1220
00:54:50.039 --> 00:54:51.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah. right.

1221
00:54:51.300 --> 00:54:55.019
Which is what Genesis is making fun of in that final saying.

1222
00:54:58.679 --> 00:55:01.619
Mark me, that's it, that long shot.

1223
00:55:01.679 --> 00:55:03.599
That's set with the polished floor and the lighting.

1224
00:55:03.659 --> 00:55:04.739
It's beautiful isn't it?

1225
00:55:04.800 --> 00:55:06.840
Look, reflective surfaces.

1226
00:55:07.139 --> 00:55:09.539
Wow, you do love them.

1227
00:55:11.460 --> 00:55:13.440
Yeah, and you're right.

1228
00:55:13.500 --> 00:55:16.800
I think there is a portion of the audience I just cannot handle

1229
00:55:16.800 --> 00:55:20.519
that this bridge crew, these extraneous characters, and some of

1230
00:55:20.519 --> 00:55:22.679
them do, like, Detma, is it?

1231
00:55:22.739 --> 00:55:25.500
She does get some stuff to do later on down the line.

1232
00:55:25.559 --> 00:55:26.820
And OWO does as well.

1233
00:55:26.880 --> 00:55:29.940
In fact, one of the things that Pike does is he has a scene where

1234
00:55:29.940 --> 00:55:33.780
he makes all of these people, like Bryson Reese and Dettman and

1235
00:55:33.780 --> 00:55:37.559
Oho all say their names so that the viewers at home have some hope

1236
00:55:37.559 --> 00:55:38.639
of knowing who they are.

1237
00:55:38.699 --> 00:55:42.840
Whereas really they're just scenery in series one and very pretty

1238
00:55:42.840 --> 00:55:43.679
scenery too.

1239
00:55:43.739 --> 00:55:46.679
I can't remember what episode you said it on, but when you were

1240
00:55:46.679 --> 00:55:48.900
talking about the spinoffs of TNG.

1241
00:55:48.960 --> 00:55:52.380
Oh, let's do a space station, but essentially all the same roles.

1242
00:55:52.440 --> 00:55:55.320
Then let's do another spaceship, just in the last week.

1243
00:55:55.380 --> 00:55:58.500
And then let's do another spaceship, but just in the past, with

1244
00:55:58.500 --> 00:56:01.619
all the same roles, the doctor, the commander, da da.

1245
00:56:01.679 --> 00:56:04.199
This is the 1st time we've broken out of that mould.

1246
00:56:04.260 --> 00:56:04.559
Yeah.

1247
00:56:04.619 --> 00:56:05.880
And I really liked that.

1248
00:56:05.940 --> 00:56:07.260
Like, I was really here for it.

1249
00:56:07.320 --> 00:56:11.820
And, um, you know, I liked... understand why people got programmed

1250
00:56:11.820 --> 00:56:14.880
that that is Star Trek, sort of pushing against this and going

1251
00:56:14.880 --> 00:56:16.260
yeah, but what is this?

1252
00:56:16.320 --> 00:56:19.019
No one's wiped their old tapes.

1253
00:56:19.079 --> 00:56:22.079
You know, you can just go and watch the same old thing if that's

1254
00:56:22.079 --> 00:56:23.159
what you really want.

1255
00:56:23.219 --> 00:56:26.219
What I want Star Trek to do is something that I haven't seen

1256
00:56:26.219 --> 00:56:26.940
before.

1257
00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:29.579
Except when you watch Strange New World.

1258
00:56:29.639 --> 00:56:31.619
So that we're happy for them to do TOS.

1259
00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:33.239
Well, yeah, but they do it so well.

1260
00:56:34.619 --> 00:56:38.099
Well, it means we can have our cake and eat it, can't we?

1261
00:56:38.159 --> 00:56:39.000
Yeah, exactly.

1262
00:56:39.059 --> 00:56:41.400
These shows forging ahead, doing something bold.

1263
00:56:41.460 --> 00:56:43.079
We've got strange new worlds.

1264
00:56:43.139 --> 00:56:44.639
See that woman there?

1265
00:56:44.699 --> 00:56:46.019
Who's a bar?

1266
00:56:46.079 --> 00:56:46.380
Barzan?

1267
00:56:46.440 --> 00:56:47.460
Hmm?

1268
00:56:47.460 --> 00:56:49.199
That she's a barzan?

1269
00:56:49.260 --> 00:56:50.099
Where?

1270
00:56:50.159 --> 00:56:51.119
I've missed her.

1271
00:56:51.179 --> 00:56:51.420
Sorry.

1272
00:56:51.480 --> 00:56:53.099
There she is in the ride of that shot.

1273
00:56:53.219 --> 00:56:54.119
Just have a look.

1274
00:56:54.179 --> 00:56:55.139
She's in this scene.

1275
00:56:55.199 --> 00:56:58.860
She's got long hair, sort of slightly dark skin.

1276
00:56:58.980 --> 00:57:03.300
The character's name is Narn.

1277
00:57:03.360 --> 00:57:05.639
It's the woman that he just passed the thing to.

1278
00:57:05.699 --> 00:57:08.760
And she's got those things there and she's one of the aliens who

1279
00:57:08.760 --> 00:57:09.420
are in the price.

1280
00:57:10.139 --> 00:57:15.239
Ah, I do question, whether you know me at all, you know, when you

1281
00:57:15.239 --> 00:57:19.380
ask me, notice one of the aliens when Pike and Tyler are on

1282
00:57:19.380 --> 00:57:19.920
camera.

1283
00:57:19.980 --> 00:57:20.400
That's true.

1284
00:57:20.460 --> 00:57:22.380
Oh, plus Saru. very tall.

1285
00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:23.519
And this caught guy at the back.

1286
00:57:23.579 --> 00:57:25.260
I don't know who that is, but he's very pretty.

1287
00:57:25.320 --> 00:57:26.340
Bryce, the black guy.

1288
00:57:26.880 --> 00:57:30.239
I feel like Saru's the odd man out really, isn't he?

1289
00:57:30.300 --> 00:57:32.940
He's the only sort of person in this show that...

1290
00:57:32.940 --> 00:57:36.599
He's the only straight white guy, but he may not be...

1291
00:57:36.659 --> 00:57:38.519
Well, no, we don't know, do we?

1292
00:57:39.840 --> 00:57:43.079
Well, we've got a straight white guy, it's the captain.

1293
00:57:43.139 --> 00:57:45.300
That is such a striking look, that robot.

1294
00:57:45.420 --> 00:57:46.739
Yeah, yeah.

1295
00:57:47.519 --> 00:57:49.920
And look, it's her.

1296
00:57:50.039 --> 00:57:51.420
It's not Tyler at all.

1297
00:57:51.480 --> 00:57:51.900
See?

1298
00:57:54.960 --> 00:57:56.340
Where are we now?

1299
00:57:56.400 --> 00:57:57.300
Back on Talos.

1300
00:57:57.360 --> 00:57:58.559
Is it Channel 7?

1301
00:57:58.619 --> 00:58:00.300
Tell us four.

1302
00:58:00.360 --> 00:58:01.139
Whoops.

1303
00:58:01.739 --> 00:58:05.219
We lost our audience in the 1st 5 minutes.

1304
00:58:05.219 --> 00:58:08.039
It's like, what do these people know about Star Trek?

1305
00:58:08.460 --> 00:58:10.440
Nothing until?

1306
00:58:11.579 --> 00:58:14.940
Well, it'd be awfully dull if we agreed all the time as well

1307
00:58:14.940 --> 00:58:15.300
wouldn't it?

1308
00:58:15.360 --> 00:58:16.739
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1309
00:58:16.800 --> 00:58:17.519
Yeah, yeah.

1310
00:58:17.579 --> 00:58:18.599
I think so.

1311
00:58:19.500 --> 00:58:23.159
It's a Sanequa, Melissa George Pout off here.

1312
00:58:23.219 --> 00:58:24.719
Yeah, isn't it?

1313
00:58:24.780 --> 00:58:29.940
So, so we are going to see this scene, and I think, sorry, sorry

1314
00:58:29.940 --> 00:58:31.739
to interrupt, but Ethan Peck's getting in on it as well.

1315
00:58:31.800 --> 00:58:32.519
I know.

1316
00:58:32.519 --> 00:58:34.440
My money is on here.

1317
00:58:34.500 --> 00:58:35.519
Sorry, you were saying.

1318
00:58:35.820 --> 00:58:42.659
Well, so we are going to see this backstory, and I think that the

1319
00:58:42.659 --> 00:58:47.880
backstory scene is a little bit obvious and a little bit rightly.

1320
00:58:47.940 --> 00:58:50.159
Like, I think it's the sort of thing that you would have

1321
00:58:50.159 --> 00:58:50.760
imagined.

1322
00:58:50.820 --> 00:58:52.860
So part of the backstory here.

1323
00:58:52.920 --> 00:58:57.960
Remember, is that the school that Michael, the learning centre

1324
00:58:57.960 --> 00:59:04.739
that Michael attended as a child was bombed by, was it by logic

1325
00:59:04.739 --> 00:59:05.460
separatists?

1326
00:59:05.519 --> 00:59:10.320
And so, so, and you know, we see a scene where Sarek, uh, you know

1327
00:59:10.320 --> 00:59:14.400
is is going to be, you know, killed by logic separatists and stuff

1328
00:59:14.400 --> 00:59:14.820
like that.

1329
00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:19.440
So they're just kind of white Vulcan supremacists, aren't they?

1330
00:59:19.500 --> 00:59:21.300
Um, this kid.

1331
00:59:21.420 --> 00:59:24.599
Why they've got this little cherubic, cute kid?

1332
00:59:24.659 --> 00:59:26.400
It's too little.

1333
00:59:26.460 --> 00:59:27.780
He's too little.

1334
00:59:27.840 --> 00:59:29.639
He's not serious enough to be spogged.

1335
00:59:29.699 --> 00:59:32.880
He's got Alexander back all over him.

1336
00:59:32.940 --> 00:59:37.440
But I think what the good thing that they do is just swapping the

1337
00:59:37.440 --> 00:59:39.179
adult act is in.

1338
00:59:40.079 --> 00:59:41.760
Yeah, you know.

1339
00:59:41.820 --> 00:59:46.139
Yeah, I think that and that's a bit more interesting, I think

1340
00:59:46.139 --> 00:59:49.800
because they're obviously better actors and it makes it weird.

1341
00:59:49.860 --> 00:59:51.179
You know, like because.

1342
00:59:51.300 --> 00:59:54.119
It's just like one of those scenes, though, on any modern drama

1343
00:59:54.119 --> 00:59:56.579
where they have 2 people in a therapy room and say shout at each

1344
00:59:56.579 --> 00:59:57.000
other.

1345
00:59:57.059 --> 00:59:57.360
Go on.

1346
00:59:57.420 --> 00:59:59.400
Get your feelings out.

1347
01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:02.940
They're doing it for space reasons, though.

1348
01:00:03.000 --> 01:00:06.719
I like, you'll always be cold and distant like a moon somewhere.

1349
01:00:06.780 --> 01:00:09.539
I think it's a very rightly line.

1350
01:00:09.719 --> 01:00:13.800
But there's, I like like a moon somewhere for some reason.

1351
01:00:13.860 --> 01:00:15.000
It's such a strange thing.

1352
01:00:15.059 --> 01:00:18.239
And I think there might be a callback to it later because

1353
01:00:18.239 --> 01:00:21.480
obviously she's got to say goodbye to him at the end of this

1354
01:00:21.480 --> 01:00:21.840
series.

1355
01:00:22.079 --> 01:00:27.059
Rusty old Joe Ford is trying very hard as well to see who's

1356
01:00:27.059 --> 01:00:28.679
talking through the lens flare as well.

1357
01:00:28.739 --> 01:00:30.000
So I'm having a bit of trouble there.

1358
01:00:30.059 --> 01:00:34.860
Yeah, I like how they give adult Michael the line, you weird

1359
01:00:34.860 --> 01:00:40.139
little half breed, and then you see adult Spock reacting to it by

1360
01:00:40.139 --> 01:00:40.619
crying.

1361
01:00:40.679 --> 01:00:42.239
You know, I think that's much better.

1362
01:00:42.300 --> 01:00:43.380
I think that's true.

1363
01:00:43.440 --> 01:00:43.920
That is right.

1364
01:00:43.980 --> 01:00:48.300
I was pretty shocked by this sort of intolerance, but you and me

1365
01:00:48.300 --> 01:00:49.739
have done a ton of 90s training.

1366
01:00:49.800 --> 01:00:52.559
We sound so much racism in there from the characters as we've gone

1367
01:00:52.559 --> 01:00:52.800
along.

1368
01:00:53.519 --> 01:00:56.820
It's not a shock, you know, like people behave this way.

1369
01:00:56.880 --> 01:00:58.199
No.

1370
01:00:58.260 --> 01:00:59.159
Yeah.

1371
01:00:59.159 --> 01:01:00.840
Roddenbury would be appalled though.

1372
01:01:00.900 --> 01:01:03.659
I mean, just 2 people having an argument would be appalled.

1373
01:01:03.719 --> 01:01:05.639
Well, yeah, and I think that's a shame.

1374
01:01:05.699 --> 01:01:09.480
But, I mean, in original Star Trek, there's plenty of racism

1375
01:01:09.480 --> 01:01:11.280
directed against Spark.

1376
01:01:11.340 --> 01:01:12.480
Oh, loads.

1377
01:01:12.539 --> 01:01:12.840
Yeah.

1378
01:01:12.900 --> 01:01:15.780
And by McCoy very frequently too.

1379
01:01:15.840 --> 01:01:21.000
And could I just, like, I've mentioned how hot he is, but can't

1380
01:01:21.000 --> 01:01:23.519
for Peck to take on this role?

1381
01:01:23.639 --> 01:01:28.440
And so win everybody over because I've not heard a bad word about

1382
01:01:28.440 --> 01:01:29.280
his performance.

1383
01:01:29.340 --> 01:01:31.139
Like bravo.

1384
01:01:31.199 --> 01:01:36.239
Yeah, I think Zachary Quinto did a pretty good job in the films.

1385
01:01:36.300 --> 01:01:39.179
That picture us all the other day of the 2 of them together.

1386
01:01:39.300 --> 01:01:42.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah. great.

1387
01:01:44.159 --> 01:01:47.699
I was like, yeah, if you put Nemo in there as well, they've all

1388
01:01:47.699 --> 01:01:49.079
got a certain look in the eye.

1389
01:01:49.800 --> 01:01:50.340
Yeah.

1390
01:01:50.400 --> 01:01:56.519
But I think that like they give Peck fun, cute things to do, which

1391
01:01:56.519 --> 01:01:57.539
is kind of nice.

1392
01:01:57.599 --> 01:02:01.800
And having him have this emotional crisis sort of early on, you

1393
01:02:01.800 --> 01:02:05.099
know, over Christine in particular, I think is really great.

1394
01:02:05.219 --> 01:02:07.440
Do you hear what Spock said just then?

1395
01:02:07.500 --> 01:02:09.119
That should have been the bye word for this season.

1396
01:02:09.179 --> 01:02:14.519
Do not attempt to psychoanalyse me. better people than you have

1397
01:02:14.519 --> 01:02:15.300
tried and failed.

1398
01:02:16.980 --> 01:02:19.980
Someone should have said that in the penultimate episode.

1399
01:02:20.039 --> 01:02:24.960
I think he gets a really funny line later on, which I really

1400
01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:28.800
really liked, and it's a cheesy line, but I did laugh out loud at

1401
01:02:28.800 --> 01:02:29.039
it.

1402
01:02:29.099 --> 01:02:32.699
And he, you know, like, I think there's a reason why in the 2

1403
01:02:32.699 --> 01:02:37.800
seasons so far of Strange New Worlds have given him a role in a

1404
01:02:37.800 --> 01:02:42.840
sort of ludicrous Vulcan sex comedy, because I think he's funny.

1405
01:02:42.900 --> 01:02:43.619
You know?

1406
01:02:43.860 --> 01:02:47.400
Yeah, but they do have to, they do sort of have to contrive

1407
01:02:47.400 --> 01:02:52.139
situations where you can really loosen up and peck and just have

1408
01:02:52.139 --> 01:02:52.440
fun.

1409
01:02:52.500 --> 01:02:55.980
Yeah, well, like in Elysium Kingdom, for instance, which is pretty

1410
01:02:55.980 --> 01:02:56.460
cool.

1411
01:02:56.519 --> 01:02:59.699
But I just always feel with Peck, like with Nemoy, there's just

1412
01:02:59.699 --> 01:03:01.440
always this sort of glint in the eye.

1413
01:03:01.500 --> 01:03:05.940
There's no inlook that the character is enjoying himself and

1414
01:03:05.940 --> 01:03:07.380
having fun in the adventures.

1415
01:03:08.699 --> 01:03:13.260
So Leland's obviously he'll be killed at the end by control, but

1416
01:03:13.260 --> 01:03:14.219
he's pretty great.

1417
01:03:14.280 --> 01:03:20.039
Um, and he's our sort of antagonist in section 31, which they've

1418
01:03:20.039 --> 01:03:21.360
brought back for this year.

1419
01:03:21.659 --> 01:03:27.360
I'll just say, the fact that they, they even chose to represent

1420
01:03:27.360 --> 01:03:32.400
the terrible black tunics that they had in DS9 for the section 31

1421
01:03:32.400 --> 01:03:33.360
characters.

1422
01:03:33.420 --> 01:03:34.860
I mean, that's detail, that is.

1423
01:03:35.159 --> 01:03:35.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1424
01:03:35.820 --> 01:03:42.059
I think see the gold, you know, the badge, the insignia badge, and

1425
01:03:42.059 --> 01:03:46.260
I think section 31 have a black one, like a shiny black one, which

1426
01:03:46.260 --> 01:03:46.860
is pretty great.

1427
01:03:47.880 --> 01:03:49.920
Oh, Tilly.

1428
01:03:49.980 --> 01:03:51.179
See, every time she appears.

1429
01:03:51.239 --> 01:03:52.199
Oh, smile.

1430
01:03:52.260 --> 01:03:53.880
Yeah, yeah, she's great.

1431
01:03:53.940 --> 01:03:54.659
More of her.

1432
01:03:54.840 --> 01:03:58.139
Oh, that bit Nathan, that bit where her and Stammet sing the David

1433
01:03:58.139 --> 01:03:59.639
Bowie song in Sick Bay.

1434
01:03:59.699 --> 01:04:01.260
Oh man.

1435
01:04:01.320 --> 01:04:04.679
Oh, look, this all this fucking lens flare.

1436
01:04:04.739 --> 01:04:07.139
Well, no, because look at me.

1437
01:04:07.199 --> 01:04:08.280
I feel like I'm at a disco.

1438
01:04:08.340 --> 01:04:09.480
Oh, I do sound like an old man.

1439
01:04:09.539 --> 01:04:10.500
Yeah, yeah.

1440
01:04:10.559 --> 01:04:14.039
But the point of it is to create a sense of unreality around this

1441
01:04:14.039 --> 01:04:18.840
scene, because he's remembering her and it's his memory of her

1442
01:04:18.840 --> 01:04:23.519
that reassures her, you know, that reassures him that the right

1443
01:04:23.519 --> 01:04:27.719
thing to do is, you know, that the Talotians will sort this.

1444
01:04:27.780 --> 01:04:31.920
The Tolosians will let Michael and Spot go.

1445
01:04:31.980 --> 01:04:35.219
Like they won't let them go with Leila. create a sense of

1446
01:04:35.219 --> 01:04:35.760
unreality.

1447
01:04:35.820 --> 01:04:37.260
Start tilting the cameras again then.

1448
01:04:37.380 --> 01:04:40.980
Well, I couldn't tell the cameras and did lens flair for that

1449
01:04:40.980 --> 01:04:41.280
scene.

1450
01:04:41.579 --> 01:04:44.099
Look, it's beautiful, sad.

1451
01:04:44.159 --> 01:04:45.480
Yeah.

1452
01:04:46.559 --> 01:04:49.079
And that set's pretty impressive too.

1453
01:04:49.139 --> 01:04:51.119
Oh, that guy's got no sleeves.

1454
01:04:51.179 --> 01:04:51.840
Whoa.

1455
01:04:52.139 --> 01:04:54.179
Yeah, it is.

1456
01:04:54.239 --> 01:04:56.760
Section 31 is evil, so of course they're in black.

1457
01:04:56.880 --> 01:04:57.900
Yep. yep.

1458
01:04:57.960 --> 01:05:01.260
And they've got a big pit in the middle of their ship where people

1459
01:05:01.260 --> 01:05:01.860
go in.

1460
01:05:02.039 --> 01:05:04.559
A bit like DS no, isn't it?

1461
01:05:04.619 --> 01:05:05.460
They had a pit an ops.

1462
01:05:05.519 --> 01:05:08.099
Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1463
01:05:08.159 --> 01:05:13.260
Oh, there was all evil in that as well, I've always, so...

1464
01:05:13.260 --> 01:05:14.099
I like their ship.

1465
01:05:15.059 --> 01:05:17.039
Certain characters.

1466
01:05:17.099 --> 01:05:18.539
Just make you smile, didn't they?

1467
01:05:18.599 --> 01:05:19.320
Yeah, yeah.

1468
01:05:19.380 --> 01:05:20.940
This is cousin Michelle.

1469
01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:21.780
She's making...

1470
01:05:21.840 --> 01:05:24.539
It's because they sort of guarantee a good time.

1471
01:05:24.599 --> 01:05:25.440
Yeah, yeah.

1472
01:05:25.440 --> 01:05:27.719
It's like when Garak or Dukat or something like that.

1473
01:05:27.719 --> 01:05:30.420
Yeah, it's like Cesca in Voyager, you know?

1474
01:05:30.480 --> 01:05:31.199
Yep.

1475
01:05:31.260 --> 01:05:34.320
If your show's there, do you remember that dinner scene in that

1476
01:05:34.320 --> 01:05:37.679
episode we watched, everyone else is talking about having fun and

1477
01:05:37.679 --> 01:05:38.340
she's just...

1478
01:05:38.340 --> 01:05:41.460
We're eating all those loading up with seafood.

1479
01:05:41.940 --> 01:05:45.239
She's sparing it all up having a great time.

1480
01:05:45.360 --> 01:05:50.099
So this, where the 2, like, they're clearly simulacra, and we know

1481
01:05:50.099 --> 01:05:52.320
that already, because we know the shuttle's coming up to the

1482
01:05:52.320 --> 01:05:54.300
enterprise, so at this point we know they're not real.

1483
01:05:54.360 --> 01:05:59.099
Say goodbye, Spock, and he turns and goes goodbye, Spock, and then

1484
01:05:59.099 --> 01:05:59.639
they vanish.

1485
01:05:59.699 --> 01:06:02.219
Like it's such a cheesy old joke, but I think it's really cute.

1486
01:06:02.280 --> 01:06:06.960
But and I think that's probably the most fun moment in that plot.

1487
01:06:07.019 --> 01:06:08.280
Yeah, yeah.

1488
01:06:08.340 --> 01:06:10.860
Yeah, also, that's like the most beard.

1489
01:06:10.920 --> 01:06:13.139
I mean, the one fun moment.

1490
01:06:13.199 --> 01:06:16.199
No, no, she gets to say something, she gets to be snarky about his

1491
01:06:16.199 --> 01:06:16.559
beard.

1492
01:06:16.619 --> 01:06:21.719
Like, he's her younger brother. is very serious.

1493
01:06:21.780 --> 01:06:22.860
It is very serious.

1494
01:06:23.280 --> 01:06:26.519
I mean, I mean, look at this player, Pike and Spock.

1495
01:06:26.579 --> 01:06:28.019
No one that I gave a new show.

1496
01:06:28.079 --> 01:06:29.039
I know exactly right.

1497
01:06:29.940 --> 01:06:34.619
I do realise I do spend a great deal of UTSP admiring the men of

1498
01:06:34.619 --> 01:06:35.460
Star Trek.

1499
01:06:35.519 --> 01:06:36.480
Yeah, well, yeah.

1500
01:06:36.539 --> 01:06:37.619
Look at them.

1501
01:06:37.679 --> 01:06:38.340
Why wouldn't you?

1502
01:06:38.400 --> 01:06:39.480
No, exactly.

1503
01:06:39.599 --> 01:06:43.559
Oh, Burnham just did the eyebrow race.

1504
01:06:43.679 --> 01:06:46.199
Yes, that's what I think is really funny.

1505
01:06:46.260 --> 01:06:47.579
I think that's really awesome.

1506
01:06:47.639 --> 01:06:51.360
So he says the thing, and then she turns and does the Vulcan

1507
01:06:51.360 --> 01:06:54.119
eyebrow rays, which I just thought was great, and there we get

1508
01:06:54.119 --> 01:06:56.400
welcome to Discovery, which I think is pretty awesome too.

1509
01:06:56.519 --> 01:06:58.500
Oh my god, the best line.

1510
01:06:58.559 --> 01:06:59.340
She's just saying...

1511
01:06:59.340 --> 01:07:02.280
Yeah, yeah, she wipes out. their stupid planes.

1512
01:07:04.559 --> 01:07:07.380
Oh, see, we're laughing again.

1513
01:07:07.440 --> 01:07:08.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1514
01:07:08.579 --> 01:07:10.260
Why wasn't it more fun than this?

1515
01:07:10.320 --> 01:07:10.860
It can?

1516
01:07:10.920 --> 01:07:12.659
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1517
01:07:12.719 --> 01:07:14.280
I think they are serious.

1518
01:07:14.340 --> 01:07:15.420
That should have been the story.

1519
01:07:15.480 --> 01:07:17.099
She blew up the planet at the end.

1520
01:07:18.480 --> 01:07:20.639
Look at him walking off.

1521
01:07:20.699 --> 01:07:22.079
It's Michelle yo.

1522
01:07:22.139 --> 01:07:23.099
Great.

1523
01:07:23.159 --> 01:07:25.559
Oh, stop making movies.

1524
01:07:25.619 --> 01:07:26.820
Come back to Star Trek.

1525
01:07:30.420 --> 01:07:32.820
Jesus, what the hell is that thing?

1526
01:07:32.880 --> 01:07:33.599
Beyond Spork.

1527
01:07:33.659 --> 01:07:37.679
Yeah, I'm not quite sure what that guy is.

1528
01:07:37.739 --> 01:07:40.739
I think he gets a credit.

1529
01:07:40.860 --> 01:07:43.019
Is he...

1530
01:07:43.440 --> 01:07:44.639
Yeah, no, I'm not sure.

1531
01:07:44.639 --> 01:07:45.480
He's something.

1532
01:07:45.539 --> 01:07:46.440
I don't know.

1533
01:07:46.500 --> 01:07:47.340
That is incredible.

1534
01:07:47.400 --> 01:07:48.719
He needs a close up.

1535
01:07:49.199 --> 01:07:52.920
Well, it's not Linus or the other guy.

1536
01:07:52.980 --> 01:07:57.119
Like there's 2 kind of big weird aliens, but that strange alien is

1537
01:07:57.119 --> 01:07:58.559
a thing.

1538
01:07:58.619 --> 01:07:59.760
I can't remember what he is.

1539
01:08:00.360 --> 01:08:02.639
You know what I'd love?

1540
01:08:02.699 --> 01:08:06.659
I'd love for that to be a knowing line about the lens flare.

1541
01:08:06.719 --> 01:08:09.780
Look at uh, race.

1542
01:08:12.840 --> 01:08:15.300
Reese is standing next to Tilly, looking very pretty.

1543
01:08:15.659 --> 01:08:18.659
And Bryce is standing next to Garrium.

1544
01:08:18.720 --> 01:08:20.939
We're tilt in the camera again as we go in.

1545
01:08:21.000 --> 01:08:24.539
So the other thing that someone said to me the other day was every

1546
01:08:24.539 --> 01:08:26.220
week on Star Trek Discovery.

1547
01:08:26.279 --> 01:08:28.859
Every week on Star Trek Strange New World.

1548
01:08:28.920 --> 01:08:32.039
The captain says, we're going to disobey orders or Una says, we're

1549
01:08:32.039 --> 01:08:34.500
going to disobey orders. take the ship off and you don't have to

1550
01:08:34.500 --> 01:08:35.699
do this if you don't want to.

1551
01:08:35.760 --> 01:08:39.000
And I think it happens twice in series 2 and we've just done it

1552
01:08:39.000 --> 01:08:39.840
here as well.

1553
01:08:40.380 --> 01:08:42.359
It's just like, yeah, we're just going to take the ship, like

1554
01:08:42.359 --> 01:08:42.779
whatever.

1555
01:08:42.840 --> 01:08:45.659
And that seems to happen all the time, which I think, you know

1556
01:08:45.659 --> 01:08:46.500
that's kind of fun.

1557
01:08:46.560 --> 01:08:48.359
It's better than just going on the missions.

1558
01:08:48.420 --> 01:08:49.800
There's Melissa George's credit.

1559
01:08:49.920 --> 01:08:55.199
Now, we found a few bits to admire about that and we found

1560
01:08:55.199 --> 01:08:57.720
smacking that we liked and certainly we enjoyed the production.

1561
01:08:58.079 --> 01:09:01.619
I would call that a failure, though, in the...

1562
01:09:01.619 --> 01:09:06.659
It doesn't deliver much entertainment for its runtime.

1563
01:09:06.720 --> 01:09:11.100
Well, I think that it's too serious and I think that that's why

1564
01:09:11.100 --> 01:09:15.600
series 2 is, for me, the weakest series.

1565
01:09:15.659 --> 01:09:19.260
Series one is also very serious, but it does have light moments as

1566
01:09:19.260 --> 01:09:19.500
well.

1567
01:09:19.560 --> 01:09:21.779
But I don't know.

1568
01:09:21.840 --> 01:09:25.739
It did make me think maybe I should watch season 2 all the way

1569
01:09:25.739 --> 01:09:27.479
through. 14 episodes.

1570
01:09:27.539 --> 01:09:28.199
It's quite long.

1571
01:09:28.260 --> 01:09:32.699
But I have only seen it through once at the time, and I've gone

1572
01:09:32.699 --> 01:09:35.520
back and seen this one, obviously, because, you know, it's the

1573
01:09:35.520 --> 01:09:36.600
Talos 41.

1574
01:09:36.960 --> 01:09:41.819
But it would be fun to experience this in context, I think.

1575
01:09:41.880 --> 01:09:45.359
I feel like this should be the standout episode of series two.

1576
01:09:45.420 --> 01:09:49.319
This is like the big dig into the past and it should be sort of

1577
01:09:49.319 --> 01:09:53.460
the most trek episode of series 2 because we are going back to

1578
01:09:53.460 --> 01:09:54.600
where it all began.

1579
01:09:54.659 --> 01:09:55.800
Yeah, yeah.

1580
01:09:55.859 --> 01:09:57.779
Why are we going back here otherwise?

1581
01:09:57.840 --> 01:09:59.880
I guess it's, I don't know.

1582
01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:01.199
Why are we going back?

1583
01:10:01.560 --> 01:10:04.380
I guess because they can cure Spock?

1584
01:10:04.439 --> 01:10:04.920
Is that it?

1585
01:10:04.979 --> 01:10:07.800
Because it's in the back. fun thing to do.

1586
01:10:07.859 --> 01:10:08.699
Yeah.

1587
01:10:08.760 --> 01:10:10.500
But instead it's an overwrought thing.

1588
01:10:10.560 --> 01:10:13.560
You know, it becomes all about their childhood feelings about each

1589
01:10:13.560 --> 01:10:13.859
other.

1590
01:10:13.920 --> 01:10:17.760
The biggest problem with this is I think it just comes maybe 2

1591
01:10:17.760 --> 01:10:18.779
seasons, too early.

1592
01:10:18.840 --> 01:10:20.579
Yeah, maybe.

1593
01:10:20.640 --> 01:10:24.180
I think if they were going to do this in five, you know.

1594
01:10:24.239 --> 01:10:25.020
Yeah.

1595
01:10:25.079 --> 01:10:27.300
Well, then it would have been fun, then it would have been more

1596
01:10:27.300 --> 01:10:27.539
fun.

1597
01:10:27.600 --> 01:10:29.640
But I don't think fun is what they're trying to do here.

1598
01:10:29.699 --> 01:10:31.739
I think they're trying to tell a big epic story.

1599
01:10:31.800 --> 01:10:34.439
And I think they kind of manage that, but I do think that means

1600
01:10:34.439 --> 01:10:37.020
that it's a bit leaden from time to time because everything has

1601
01:10:37.020 --> 01:10:40.199
this sort of massive weight and everyone has to feel big things

1602
01:10:40.199 --> 01:10:45.239
about everything and they don't leaven it with humour often enough

1603
01:10:45.239 --> 01:10:45.779
I think.

1604
01:10:45.840 --> 01:10:49.140
And like, you know, I'm not going to labour the point too much, but

1605
01:10:49.140 --> 01:10:54.300
I do feel the DS9 episode and the Strange New World episode, it

1606
01:10:54.300 --> 01:10:58.199
was a massive loving for original Star Trek, you know, and you

1607
01:10:58.199 --> 01:11:00.720
felt and you went along for the ride and you had a great time.

1608
01:11:00.779 --> 01:11:05.640
I do think there is a little bit of, we are a bit embarrassed, but

1609
01:11:05.640 --> 01:11:07.560
we're going to do this because it was Star Trek.

1610
01:11:07.619 --> 01:11:09.659
So we're just going to make it look great.

1611
01:11:09.720 --> 01:11:10.319
Absolutely not.

1612
01:11:10.380 --> 01:11:12.779
I think that because they didn't have to do it.

1613
01:11:12.840 --> 01:11:15.060
They could have gone to a planet of their own invention.

1614
01:11:15.119 --> 01:11:19.079
They didn't need to do this, but they deliberately choose to end

1615
01:11:19.079 --> 01:11:23.760
series one with the enterprise arriving and they choose to make

1616
01:11:23.760 --> 01:11:28.319
the captain Christopher Pike, and they choose to explore his

1617
01:11:28.319 --> 01:11:30.239
backstory all throughout the year.

1618
01:11:30.300 --> 01:11:33.300
And I think they do that because they love Star Trek.

1619
01:11:33.359 --> 01:11:39.180
But I think they show us the original episode at the beginning to

1620
01:11:39.180 --> 01:11:44.220
say, we're going to do this for you, but with modern production

1621
01:11:44.220 --> 01:11:47.520
sensibilities, and we're going to make it look as spectacular and

1622
01:11:47.520 --> 01:11:48.659
weird as we can.

1623
01:11:48.720 --> 01:11:51.720
And I think there are bits of it that are spectacular and weird

1624
01:11:51.720 --> 01:11:54.479
but there's a fair bit of standing around in a fairly darkened

1625
01:11:54.479 --> 01:11:58.500
room and sort of talking about stuff and that's a bit

1626
01:11:58.500 --> 01:11:59.520
disappointing, I think.

1627
01:11:59.579 --> 01:12:02.640
I just think maybe they shouldn't have done this.

1628
01:12:02.699 --> 01:12:05.819
And I certainly don't think they should have put that at the

1629
01:12:05.819 --> 01:12:09.659
beginning of the episode because what I've got here is 30 seconds

1630
01:12:09.659 --> 01:12:14.220
of material that I think is really colourful and fun and and then

1631
01:12:14.220 --> 01:12:19.800
a boring 50 minutes afterwards, that isn't celebrating what it was

1632
01:12:19.800 --> 01:12:20.880
advertising at the beginning.

1633
01:12:20.939 --> 01:12:27.720
I think the cage is actually comparably boring, probably. 60s soak

1634
01:12:27.720 --> 01:12:29.340
so it looks...

1635
01:12:29.399 --> 01:12:31.560
So it looks sort of super colourful and stuff like that.

1636
01:12:31.619 --> 01:12:33.779
But I do think that this is a love letter to it.

1637
01:12:33.840 --> 01:12:38.220
And I do think that making pike so like doing such a good job with

1638
01:12:38.220 --> 01:12:39.960
pike that we get strange new worlds.

1639
01:12:40.020 --> 01:12:43.680
You know, they do pike, they do number one, and they do Spock, and

1640
01:12:43.680 --> 01:12:47.699
they do all 3 of them so well that everyone's clamouring to have

1641
01:12:47.699 --> 01:12:50.220
them back, and they go, yes, actually that would be a good idea.

1642
01:12:50.279 --> 01:12:51.359
Let's do a show of that.

1643
01:12:51.420 --> 01:12:54.180
And doing the whole pike thing.

1644
01:12:54.239 --> 01:12:59.279
Remember what they do in this series is they give Pike the

1645
01:12:59.279 --> 01:13:03.239
opportunity to see his death and it's not his death, but his

1646
01:13:03.239 --> 01:13:08.340
accident and its consequences, and then they let him freely choose

1647
01:13:08.340 --> 01:13:09.180
that.

1648
01:13:09.239 --> 01:13:10.920
Do you remember that?

1649
01:13:10.979 --> 01:13:13.020
That's coming later in the series.

1650
01:13:13.079 --> 01:13:15.960
And so they really want to do Pike and they want to do him

1651
01:13:15.960 --> 01:13:16.500
properly.

1652
01:13:16.560 --> 01:13:20.699
And so to do him properly, you have to do, tell us four, I think

1653
01:13:20.699 --> 01:13:23.100
because that's the only place we've seen him before.

1654
01:13:23.159 --> 01:13:26.340
Well, in fact, Christ, they got all this introspection over and

1655
01:13:26.340 --> 01:13:29.279
done with, so then he can go on strangely wells and have some fun

1656
01:13:29.279 --> 01:13:30.359
and have some fun.

1657
01:13:30.420 --> 01:13:30.960
Exactly right.

1658
01:13:31.020 --> 01:13:33.539
Although, you know, like it does start, doesn't it?

1659
01:13:33.600 --> 01:13:37.800
It does start with him lying in bed with that horrific beard, much

1660
01:13:37.800 --> 01:13:41.279
much worse than Spock's beard, feeling bad because he's going to

1661
01:13:41.279 --> 01:13:45.600
be killed, you know, at some and then he decides actually, no, it's

1662
01:13:45.600 --> 01:13:48.060
what I do in the meantime that matters.

1663
01:13:48.180 --> 01:13:51.119
You know, that's kind of good, but that we do start from that

1664
01:13:51.119 --> 01:13:54.060
place and we do have flashbacks to that episode.

1665
01:13:54.119 --> 01:13:59.340
Um, you know, well, don't worry, because uh, Krusty, you know

1666
01:13:59.340 --> 01:14:02.939
grumpy Joe Ford is going to be really happy because I know where

1667
01:14:02.939 --> 01:14:07.380
we're going next and it's going to be a weld of static cameras and

1668
01:14:07.380 --> 01:14:10.079
flat overhead lighting.

1669
01:14:11.699 --> 01:14:15.119
And predictably dull storytelling.

1670
01:14:15.180 --> 01:14:17.220
So I'll be happy next week.

1671
01:14:17.279 --> 01:14:18.779
I can hardly wait.

1672
01:14:25.920 --> 01:14:30.239
All right, it's the end of our episode, and it is time, as Joe

1673
01:14:30.239 --> 01:14:35.640
threatened, to go back to the 90s for some solid old-fashioned

1674
01:14:35.640 --> 01:14:40.500
entertainment in the Rick Berman Star Trek universe.

1675
01:14:40.560 --> 01:14:44.640
So, Joe, tell us which of the series we're going to be choosing

1676
01:14:44.640 --> 01:14:45.479
from this week.

1677
01:14:45.600 --> 01:14:49.979
Well, I promise, you know, predictable storytelling, static camera

1678
01:14:49.979 --> 01:14:52.020
work, flat overhead licing.

1679
01:14:52.079 --> 01:14:56.159
So naturally we're heading to Star Trek, the Next Generation, Deep

1680
01:14:56.159 --> 01:14:57.539
Space Iron, and Voyager.

1681
01:14:57.600 --> 01:14:58.500
Excellent.

1682
01:14:58.560 --> 01:14:59.039
The three.

1683
01:14:59.039 --> 01:14:59.579
The three.

1684
01:14:59.640 --> 01:15:00.060
Yeah.

1685
01:15:00.060 --> 01:15:00.359
Yeah.

1686
01:15:00.420 --> 01:15:00.779
Yep.

1687
01:15:00.840 --> 01:15:01.859
The 3 main ones.

1688
01:15:01.920 --> 01:15:03.119
Let's see.

1689
01:15:03.180 --> 01:15:04.140
We never know.

1690
01:15:04.199 --> 01:15:07.680
We might find the one, you know, Looks good.

1691
01:15:09.239 --> 01:15:11.399
Oh, no, no.

1692
01:15:11.460 --> 01:15:16.439
Okay, your random Star Trek Voyager episode is season six, episode

1693
01:15:16.439 --> 01:15:19.199
25, the haunting of deck 12.

1694
01:15:19.680 --> 01:15:20.460
Oh my god.

1695
01:15:20.699 --> 01:15:24.359
That is the one where Nicolix is telling the story to the little

1696
01:15:24.359 --> 01:15:26.100
kittywigs that we just made in collective.

1697
01:15:26.159 --> 01:15:27.539
Yeah, yeah.

1698
01:15:27.600 --> 01:15:28.920
We have just done season six.

1699
01:15:28.979 --> 01:15:29.819
All right.

1700
01:15:29.880 --> 01:15:32.460
Okay. the masterpiece society.

1701
01:15:32.520 --> 01:15:34.020
Yeah, not doing that.

1702
01:15:34.619 --> 01:15:36.960
Oh, I always do.

1703
01:15:37.020 --> 01:15:39.119
I always bring this one up and then we never do it.

1704
01:15:39.180 --> 01:15:40.439
Okay, what is it?

1705
01:15:40.500 --> 01:15:44.220
Well, random Star Trek D Space 9 episode is season six, episode

1706
01:15:44.220 --> 01:15:46.500
two, Rocks and Shoals.

1707
01:15:46.560 --> 01:15:48.420
I swear we've been to past this twice already.

1708
01:15:48.479 --> 01:15:49.920
Why don't we do it?

1709
01:15:50.279 --> 01:15:52.260
I mean, it's great.

1710
01:15:52.380 --> 01:15:54.119
And actually, do you know what?

1711
01:15:54.239 --> 01:15:56.640
It's just as serious as what we've just watched.

1712
01:15:56.699 --> 01:15:58.439
So it's a good chance to it.

1713
01:15:58.500 --> 01:16:00.779
Yeah, I thought you might want DS9.

1714
01:16:01.020 --> 01:16:03.300
Wrong starker than death or not, you know?

1715
01:16:04.560 --> 01:16:08.340
where we're all having overwrought conversations about ourselves

1716
01:16:08.340 --> 01:16:09.180
and stuff.

1717
01:16:09.239 --> 01:16:12.539
And I'm going to let you into a little secret that's going to get

1718
01:16:12.539 --> 01:16:13.560
you very excited.

1719
01:16:13.619 --> 01:16:14.640
Oh, what's that?

1720
01:16:14.699 --> 01:16:16.439
They go outside.

1721
01:16:16.500 --> 01:16:18.600
Yes, I remember that.

1722
01:16:19.500 --> 01:16:22.800
I remember I said to you about how they always complained.

1723
01:16:22.859 --> 01:16:25.439
Apparently that was the hottest shoot. they've ever had.

1724
01:16:25.680 --> 01:16:28.319
Andrew Robinson was melting.

1725
01:16:28.380 --> 01:16:29.460
Oh, no.

1726
01:16:29.520 --> 01:16:30.420
That's right.

1727
01:16:30.479 --> 01:16:33.239
All those Jem'adar as well, poor bastards.

1728
01:16:33.359 --> 01:16:38.579
And this is us skipping from the last 10 to the other big arc

1729
01:16:38.579 --> 01:16:40.680
which is the 6 episodes at the beginning of six.

1730
01:16:40.739 --> 01:16:41.579
Yeah.

1731
01:16:41.640 --> 01:16:43.439
No, I think that's good.

1732
01:16:43.500 --> 01:16:46.680
Like, they do a good job of, you know, like getting us back to the

1733
01:16:46.680 --> 01:16:48.720
status quo, but making us work for it.

1734
01:16:48.779 --> 01:16:52.140
And I seem to remember those 6 episodes being pretty great.

1735
01:16:52.920 --> 01:16:55.020
Please, I hope so.

1736
01:16:55.439 --> 01:16:59.640
I always promise we're going to love things and then, well, I said

1737
01:16:59.640 --> 01:17:00.899
we were going to love this one, didn't I?

1738
01:17:01.020 --> 01:17:02.399
Well, I liked it.

1739
01:17:02.460 --> 01:17:03.359
I liked it.

1740
01:17:04.079 --> 01:17:06.420
I like talking about it with you.

1741
01:17:06.479 --> 01:17:08.100
Okay, rocks and shoals.

1742
01:17:08.159 --> 01:17:08.760
Let's do it.

1743
01:17:08.819 --> 01:17:19.739
Brilliant. lets do it You've been listening to untitled Star Trek

1744
01:17:19.739 --> 01:17:23.039
Project with Joe Port and Nathan Bottomley, where online at

1745
01:17:23.039 --> 01:17:25.979
untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find subscription

1746
01:17:25.979 --> 01:17:28.500
links and links to our social media accounts.

1747
01:17:28.619 --> 01:17:32.819
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran and the theme was composed

1748
01:17:32.819 --> 01:17:34.260
by Cameron Lamb.

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01:17:34.319 --> 01:17:38.279
This episode was recorded on the 5th of September 2023 and

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01:17:38.279 --> 01:17:39.960
released on the 8th of September.

1751
01:17:40.020 --> 01:17:44.220
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Deep Space 9, Rocks and

1752
01:17:44.220 --> 01:17:44.819
Shoals.

1753
01:18:05.939 --> 01:18:07.739
That sounded more like an old man.

1754
01:18:08.220 --> 01:18:10.020
Cameras movie.

1755
01:18:10.079 --> 01:18:11.460
I'm going.

1756
01:18:11.460 --> 01:18:13.439
I'm looking at the screen.

1757
01:18:13.500 --> 01:18:14.340
What are those things?

1758
01:18:14.399 --> 01:18:17.819
Why did they go to the quarry instead of just doing a terrible set

1759
01:18:17.819 --> 01:18:18.659
in the studio?

1760
01:18:19.020 --> 01:18:21.359
Oh, star by my point.

1761
01:18:23.399 --> 01:18:25.439
Shit, an alert.

1762
01:18:25.560 --> 01:18:28.079
Because that's the other thing too.

1763
01:18:28.140 --> 01:18:29.880
Yeah, remember that first...

1764
01:18:29.939 --> 01:18:32.460
Oh, let's just go straight through then, if you've got to go.

1765
01:18:32.520 --> 01:18:35.520
Oh my god, I just brought up untold Star Trek project. and

1766
01:18:35.520 --> 01:18:36.300
assignment Earth.

1767
01:18:36.359 --> 01:18:36.840
That was so fun.

1768
01:18:36.899 --> 01:18:38.760
What happened to those days?

1769
01:18:38.819 --> 01:18:40.319
Yeah, great.

1770
01:18:40.500 --> 01:18:42.359
Everyone hates it.

1771
01:18:42.420 --> 01:18:44.880
It's like a night in Sick Bay.

1772
01:18:44.939 --> 01:18:46.739
Okay, here we go.

1773
01:18:46.800 --> 01:18:47.640
Oh my god.

1774
01:18:47.699 --> 01:18:51.300
The struggle is right, is we do have to do a lot of 90s right

1775
01:18:51.300 --> 01:18:53.819
because there's so much of it. so fucking much of it.

1776
01:18:53.880 --> 01:18:54.899
Yeah.

1777
01:18:54.960 --> 01:18:57.840
Okay, most of my free favourites.

1778
01:18:57.899 --> 01:19:00.119
Okay, all right. whenever you're ready.

1779
01:19:01.020 --> 01:19:03.539
All right, it's the end of our episode.