Hey, Joe. Hi.
So, we are in pretty grim territory right now in the Delta
Quadrant.
We are just after the middle of season six.
This is the only Star Trek game in town you told us at the end of
last week's episode.
And how do we think things are going?
You and I have a bit of a fan, you know, in Tom Selinski.
He's doing these marvellous trek a day tweets and blog.
He's up to this point, isn't he, poor bastard?
He's about where we are now, yeah.
And bless him.
His 5 star reviews are a thing of the past. you know.
Well, yeah.
Okay, so here's what's happening in series six, season six.
Sorry, I would say serious. is that we kickstart season 6 with a 4
episode run, which is about as strong as Voyage has ever been.
Ron Moore's on board and he's like, right, let's go.
We're going to do some serious storytelling, you know, amazing
characterisation.
He does one episode and says, I, doing this shit anymore.
He's in the writer's room and he's going, well, why is Jay Wade
behaving like a psychotic?
What's the reason?
And they're like, well, it's just good telly.
Okay.
Oh my god.
I'm going to go and write Battlestar Galactica.
See you later.
Yeah.
Thank God he didn't stick around.
We may never have got that.
But then it does mean that Braga is still in charge.
Right.
And what happens as a result after those 4 episodes is we're in
absolute concept of the week episodes right through to the end of
the season.
And it veers between being genuinely very good, stuff like Blink
of an eye and Pathfinder.
And I think the Muse is another really strong episode.
And memorial and things like that. and just the worst Star Trek we
have ever seen.
And that's stuff like Alice featuring Tom Paris's very own version
of Christine.
Yes.
Virtuoso, where we go down to the planet of the small people who
are obsessed with the doctor singing, spirit folk where Janeway
creates an electronic dildo to have sex with.
I quite like that bit.
And Harry kisses a cow.
Don't forget that.
And, you know, love it or hate it.
Self would have 9 fights the rock.
That could be the point where Voyager sort of sold out
completely.
No, that's glamorous.
I'm up for that That's superb.
Get the rock in, you know, before he's famous. somewhere in the
midst of all of this.
We have collective.
Yeah.
And this is on the back of many, many Borg episodes of Star Trek
Voyager, where they have been neutered to the point of
insignificance.
Where we're bringing in a bunch of little kitty winks for the
series.
Yeah.
So, like, I don't think that this has to be a bad episode.
But I have to say...
Yeah.
I had to say it kind of is.
And I think part of the problem is like, you know, we go on board
the Borg cube and it's just somewhere we've been so many times
before.
And remember how I said, when we did Scorpion, I actually thought
that the Borg cube, even then, even though it was the 1st time
that Voyager had done it, that it was kind of a boring, it was
like a sort of boring environment.
It's something that had been done and it had been sort of recently
done in a film.
It was done incredibly well in Qhu, where they had babies in
drawers, which I think, woo, more of that later.
So I don't think this had to be terrible, but I don't know why
it's quite so boring.
And I think partly is there's no atmosphere, there's no pace
there's no tension.
It's just a lot of people standing around and, you know, even the
action sequences, you know, Voyager always does this thing where
they're sort of shouting and dramatic light on the bridge and
stuff and we're having a fight for some reason or whatever
boring.
Yeah, yeah, they can normally do that Well, but this is so
stately.
It's not stately.
It just plodding in the way it's directed.
I think.
I watched this on the 1st 10 minutes.
I remember messaging you going.
Do you know what?
This isn't awful.
It's not great, yeah.
But I'm intrigued to see how this is going to pan out.
This is before the kids arrive.
I'm like, you know, the shit's being driven in a strange way.
You know, the Borg are behaving in an unusual way.
What could possibly be the cause of all this?
Then the kids arrived, and then we're in sort of very lame, very
lame moral dilemma territory.
Because it's not even played out like a moral dilemma, weirdly
enough.
No, well it doesn't go anywhere.
There is something that looks like... are long past, aren't they?
Well, no, it's the days of I boil, isn't it?
Yeah.
And again, it doesn't tend to go anywhere.
There is a sort of very dramatic scene where Janeway looks like
she's going to do something and then she just doesn't and nothing
really happens.
And like a whole heap of things happen, but they're completely
weightless and they don't have any consequences.
And then we kill off the bad guy because obviously that has to
happen and we take the kids on board.
And I'm just not sure what they thought they were doing with the
kids.
I figured they were giving 7 or 9 a family on Voyager.
Like, that's what it appears to be at the end, where she goes into
the room, says good night, turns the light out.
I'm like, okay, they're going to sort of play this out and I'll
give them the credit that they allow for consequences.
Yeah.
Which is a very unvoyagery sort of thing to do.
Yeah, I mean, the other thing is that they kind of want to gesture
at being a generational ship, you know, that was always the idea
but we know they're going to get 7 seasons, and so there isn't
really time for it to be a generational ship.
And they have the Naomi Wildman thing where Ensign Wildman gives
birth and then, you know, a couple of months later, the child's 10
you know, like Alexander or whatever, and that just seems
ridiculous.
Like that's daytime soap opera kind of territory.
And then we get some kids on board some other way.
And like, I think, you know, just basically having echeb at the
end of all this is not a bad thing, you know, I don't think that's
a terrible thing.
I think they've kind of fudged the consequences because 2 or 3
episodes later, they jettison 3 of the children and go, well, we
just come to passing your planet.
So there you go, off you go.
And then they keep Egypt.
But then they do a stunning episode where each of is almost
written out, featuring one of the best rug pools forger ever
managed to do within an episode.
And then sort of each app's role in the last episode then is to be
like the Wesley Crusher of the ship, isn't it?
Right.
Sort of the, the, the kid who's learning all the rules of the
Federation and, you know, has a few moments where he is a bit of a
rebel with Q's son and, you know, it's all that stuff going on.
I'll tell you the problem with this, is it's execution.
More than anything, and it's a massive problem with Voyager in
series 6, because I'll tell you what, there are some other fun
premises around this time.
There's an episode coming up called Live Fast and Prosper, which
has the astonishing premise of 3 people posing as Janeway, Chevok
and I think it's Milix.
And going around pulling comms on people, saying we're going to
save your planet if you give us, I don't know, a $1000000 or
whatever it is.
It's so boring.
It's so lead leadenly directed and weakly plossed.
And I just think there is a... a relaxed feeling amongst the
Voyager production crew at the moment that they know they're the
only trick on the air and they can sort of churn it out for the
next 2 years because they know Enterprise is coming as well.
Okay.
And it really isn't good enough.
Because some of this stuff is good.
But I think some of it could have been extremely good if the
people behind the scenes were, I don't know, given a bit of
energy.
It's sad.
It's really sad.
And it's sad because this was always just time to shine.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's out from under the kind of.
Well, I mean, it was always sort of a bigger deal, I guess, than
Deep Space 9, you know, like it had launched this new network, all
of that sort of thing.
And it was the sort of Star Trek thing while Deep Space 9 was off
doing its own thing over here.
But, I don't know.
What's odd is 44 and 5 is where I think Voyages at is best, where
the storytelling is pretty strong and where the execution is at
its best as well.
And then it just feels like 6 stars in a really strong place.
And then everyone just sort of gives up the rest of the rum.
Sorry, folks.
So this one is directed by someone who doesn't come back. you know
and there's nearly no information about it on memory alpha, so we
don't know why that person doesn't come back, but perhaps it's
because even, even for that production crew, this was just not
very well done or not good enough.
It's legend, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I'm excited.
Should we go?
As ever, you know, I'll say this every time we approach a
particularly dreary episode of Star Trek. the fact that you're as
miserable as I am watching it makes it all the more tolerable.
That's exactly right.
Okay.
All right, I'm going to count it in.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.
You know, as if to make it even worse, you know, we open with the
sequence featuring...
The worst rubber and the other terrible Robert, who's recently
outed as a complete homophobe, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Too bad Roberts.
The 2 worst Roberts, Harry and Neelix.
And Neelix, I think, is doing the best job here, but this is some
really, really shitty Voyager banter.
And like it's so bad.
And like you kind of want Neelix to be playing them, don't you?
Because Neelix is smart and he survived and he was always a little
bit more dodgy than he led on like early on in the show.
You know, like he was a little bit more of a sort of, you know
shadowy, not shadowy figure, but a bit of a con man, a little bit
you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And a past and stuff like that.
No, no, no.
And because he's played by Ethan Phillips, who can't help being
lovely and cuddly sort of thing.
And so, but none of that lands, like none of that, like all of
this is so boring.
No one's funny.
No one's saying anything interesting.
Well, you open Q-Hoo with a poker game among some great characters
and then you have sequences on a Borg ship featuring children.
We've done all this before.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And, you know, I know you think Harry Kim is pretty, but...
He's not a great actor, though, Nathan.
No, but he, I think he's better, I'd sooner watch him than the
worst Robert.
Like this line and I had a full house.
That's supposed to be a funny line.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, and Neelix has gone, oh, I've got a flush.
Does that beat, you know, DuPair or whatever?
And all of this is, like, who gives a shit, honestly.
This is so boring.
Back about, you know, Bunter, we were had a change of face of evil
you know, that's what happens when you share your toys.
You know what, really fun stuff?
That's how you do it.
Well, also, like there was a, like, you know, some understanding
that the poker games in Star Trek, the Next Generation were, like
had something to do with the character.
They had a point every time they did it.
There was a point.
And it was usually geared into the plot of the episode.
Yeah, that's right in the episode, you know?
Yeah, and sometimes it's a little bit obvious or whatever.
Like, it's not always the most sort of subtle or clever thing
because it's Star Trek, the next generation.
But this was nothing.
This was wasting time.
But the joy of those scenes as well in the next generation was
that it was downtime for all those characters. where they all got
to be a little bit relaxed in a way they never are on the bridge
you know?
Whereas this bunch practically slouch around on the bridge.
There's no difference.
Well, they're doing that miserable band that they do, which is
just absolutely butt clinchingly terrible.
It's so bad.
Like, it's like the writers have never met people before.
Like, how do people interact?
I don't know.
You know.
And it's like because they're from the future and they've all got
a salary.
Yeah that's because they're... people.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And if they've just been normal.
If they've just been like the people on discovery or on strange
new worlds, you know, that we just don't do the space people thing
anymore in Star Trek and I'm so relieved because it's so
terrible.
What's the most obvious thing they could do at the end of that pre
title sequence?
Oh, our ball cubes come along. okay?
Well, we haven't done that 15 times this season already.
So has one been this season?
Well, we seen a cube?
No one, the episode.
Oh no, that's season four.
Is that season?
Oh, okay.
Okay.
So that's a while back.
Yeah, so what's happening here?
Oh, yeah, so this, like this is super boring.
And like no one reacts to the fact.
So Harry's, there's an explosion down there, like Shields, like
the camera is super static and really boring.
There's no handheld, there's no nothing.
Doesn't Harry Kim end up stuck in that Jeffrey Street for about
half an hour?
Most of the episode.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
For ages. to show how essential he is to the story.
Well, he goes unconscious and then no one seems to notice.
Like, he goes unconscious and they kind of dismiss it.
Yeah, see, this is fun, isn't it?
Look at that.
It is a bit of a cartoon though.
No, I'm going to say something not kind, but I'm going to try and
find an excuse for Robert Belgium.
And that is because he's doing this secret, but he's done this a
100 times already.
Yeah.
Oh, fire photons, you know, evasive actions.
How many exciting ways can you play that?
So, Harry, Harry, we go, Harry, Harry, and then we forget about
him and continue with what we're doing, like, no one, do you know
what I mean?
Like that's nothing, no consequences.
Now we're about to be...
I know this is an episode of origination.
They know he's going to be all right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so, and again, like we're about to be, I'm like that shot
though, going inside the queue there.
It doesn't look it does look epic, I think.
Yeah, it looks a bit cartoony though, doesn't it?
Now, look, this is a dream sequence. objected to in Scorpion when
the camera was heading around the ball cube.
No, you see, at least that that's starting to look like 1st
contact, that thing where we do have handheld and we do have a
fish eye lens and a little bit of distortion.
And it turns out, no, in fact, we're in a much more boringly
directed version of the Borg cube, the Neelix's dream was
depicting.
You know, what's especially galling about that little sequence
there is, you know, Chakotay's there in Borg, Regalia turns around
and it's supposed to be like a bit of a shock.
It's not.
That's exactly where we end at the end of the season.
Oh, it's so shit too.
That final shot of them all looking.
You want to talk about... making it dog makeup.
There's no drama there at all.
Bulgrew sort of turns around.
Obviously, she's got a bull cap on and everything.
She turns around as if to say, I've done 5 hours and it's fucking
makeup for this light.
To be continued.
And the yellow is really bad.
What a bad idea. holy crap.
One thing that astonishes me, this is written by this teddy bear
is written by Michael Taylor, okay?
He did the 1st pass on in the Pale Moonlight, the visitor.point.
He wrote counterpoint.
Like he wrote some of the best of 90s Trek.
What happened?
Yeah, oh, look it.
What's but what's with B'lana's hair?
Is this her season 6 hair?
Is that what's happening here?
Oh, she's got one of those things that gives you volume and they
had a power surge on Voyage.
It's sort of very shaggy.
It's really bad. but I do think K-Moll cruise hair looks
astonishingly good.
No, I will always like her longer hair when it's tied back or when
she has a French curl or something like that.
I think that she just looks like a normal American lady that's
American lady hair and I just think it's super boring.
It's worth poisoning out as well.
Like, you and I did Scorpion and we did the Raven, and there was a
point in this show where they were giving Jerry Ryan consistently
excellent material to do.
They realised what a fantastic actress they'd had and they they
actually they delivered on the promise of that pandemic by giving
her good stuff to do.
We have passed that point now.
Well, in fact, look how boring and staid this is.
This is the thing I was talking about before, the standard low
lighting voyager, you know, we're attacking people kind of thing
and it happens all the time.
But it just is people standing around talking about a space
battle.
Like there's no space battle hafting here.
And there's no feeling of anything.
There's no pace that like the music is nothing.
Like the music is so nothing in this episode. made a point of that
didn't I?
Because I feel like you get towards the clothes.
I feel like the, the music is trying to be pacy, but it's so
quiet.
And it's so, so lazy.
You know what, Nathan?
There isn't even any rocks coming out of consoles.
A lot of things, Kate.
Like, here's Kate, at least, giving, you know, giving us some
muscular threats, which I just absolutely adore.
That's pretty great.
I think we've got to the point.
Going back to my point about 7 to nine.
I think that we got to the point where they know she's popular, so
they think if they give her screen time, no matter what they give
it to do, people are going to be invested.
Yeah, so like, why is Bilana, why is Bilana on the bridge?
No, well, because she ain't got much to do since Stefan's coming.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.
She's contractually obliged to be on the bridge this week because
otherwise she wouldn't be in it.
In fact, I'll tell you what, the tide is turning because Bilana
gets barge of the Dead and the Muse in series 6 and that's 2 of
the strongest episodes.
So it's almost like they remember after a couple of seasons.
Oh, yeah, we've got Roxanne Dawson here as well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
She's pretty good.
We'll give her sights.
So now everyone's born of 7 of nine.
And, you know, think about that for a second.
Seven of 9 in Picard.
How could we ever be bored of 7 of nine?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, look, one thing about this saying that I couldn't stop
looking at was those 3 people standing with their backs to us, at
the consoles, just, they're not even, they're not even reacting to
being in this space battle.
There's pork here.
They're just sort of standing around pressing buttons.
It's fine.
They're scenery, like whatever.
It looks very bored, saying it is console, but that's just too
rough.
Yeah, that's right.
Well, yeah, yeah.
Do you know what?
There was at one point where you had to give a tactical line
reading.
Okay.
And he delivered it in a very unusual way.
And I just thought maybe that's just Tim Russ going, I'm going to
have some fun.
I got one line in this.
Yeah, see, again, this should be scary and creepy, but it isn't
because it's just the same old corridors.
Everything's, you know, like there's no sort of particular close
ups and stuff.
That yellow light is fucking ugly as hell.
Awful.
Do you know, when we did this in a scorpion.
Because you remember that was a dead cube that they were going
around. yeah But it was almost in darkness.
There was a strobe light going off.
And there was at least a ball sort of reaching out at them and
stuff like that.
There was stuff in it.
Nothing.
So I think I've said on Untitled Star Trek Project at one point
that I liked it when the Borg used to keep babies in drawers.
Do you remember that you remember where they open the drawer and
there's a baby in there and they go, ooh, and then they close the
drawer again?
So now we have a baby that they've shoved in a drawer.
Yeah, like a literal baby that they've put in sort of Borg rompers
or whatever.
Okay.
Now, whose choice was it to make the children be naked?
And who put Mazotti in like, like, these pants?
Like, as if they were trying to kind of make, like, sex are up or
something?
and she's like a fucking 10 year old.
Like she's got one leg completely bare.
The boys?
Why are they half naked?
I don't know, because we've never seen ball this naked before.
Yeah, yeah.
But like it's because they're, you know, not out of their mat.
So the clothes is the last thing that comes in in the maturation
chamber.
Like, it's such a bad choice. in order for the sort of ill choices
that they made from season 6 of Voyager to season 4 of
Enterprise.
This may have been one of the most still judged.
Jesus Christ.
So I'm just going to try and find out.
I don't think I have anything positive to say about any of these
actors.
So I may avoid that topic because I spend far too much time
criticising children actors.
So I think the kids, like, I think it's cute that they have these
twin boys, like, but were they ever going to do anything, they
must have known when they cast them that they were basically
doing...
Did they do haunting of date?
No.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
So they they're being told that story, aren't they?
Are they?
That's at the end of the season.
They must have stuck around longer than I thought.
Oh, okay.
Okay, but they just weren't in it.
They would be off doing something.
But sorry to throw in a Doctor Who reference.
It's the twin dilemma effect, where they've insisted that they
have a pair of twins, whether they can act or not, and they
can't.
Yeah.
So, so it's a bit interminable.
And I said this to you off, Mike, there are a couple of sequences
where Jerry Ryan's given it a rule.
Then the camera swings round onto the kids, sort of standing there
looking like they need a bit of direction.
And stays on them for about 10 seconds.
Like, come on, we'll get a reaction shot out of them eventually
and it's just never forthcoming.
It's very...
You know, they say never...
They never work with kids and animals.
There's a reason for that.
Yeah, look, I mean, I don't think, like, the children aren't
really required to do much, and it is just the 1st an e-cheb that
uh, sort of interesting.
The kid who plays.
Actually, one thing that I did like was this weird thing that they
do with Icheb's voice.
Oh, the sort of distorted...
Yeah, like just moments of distortion and stuff when he's saying
sort of vows and things.
And it goes unremarked for a little bit and then we have to
mention it.
And I kind of liked it.
Like, I thought it was sort of interesting.
But in a story...
Yeah.
In a series which has taken a ball character and over several
seasons allowed her to become a human being again.
In a series that has done all of these weird things with the Borg
now to just bring in a bunch of kids.
It's like, will the Borg ever be scary again?
And we can't, they, they, they almost make it in Picard.
I not sure they're entirely successful.
Because they make them the ultimate good guys on the university.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's very hard.
It just feels, you know what I said to you before, I was sort of
detailing the path of how badly they were done over time.
I just think this is another step in that direction of neutering
them completely.
Yeah.
Is it that you can only do them a couple of times that there
aren't that many things you can do with the Borg?
That can't be right.
I don't think so.
I think you can overuse them and that's the problem.
So they're trying to find interesting things to do with them and
not much of its landing.
No, but I mean, I mean, part of the problem is that the kids just
look stupid.
Like it's the costumes just look ridiculous.
And, and they can't do the bald cat thing with the kids, like they
do it a bit with the elder, like the older boys, but they don't do
it with young boys and they don't do it, you know, with Marley.
Like she's just got her hair.
Like, I don't know.
Like the Borg stopped being horrifying.
Don't they?
And they're not even that kind of physically gross.
Because remember, one of the things I think that that 1st contact
does with the Borg is that it makes them into zombies, like, and
and so they're more cadaverous.
Remember, they're just kind of white skinned, like pale white in
their 1st experience.
Wow, that would be kind of horrific here.
Because the concept that these are children that have been torn
from their homes and turned into these, you know, emotionless
automatons, it's a scarier idea.
So why is none of this scary?
Yeah, and they don't even touch on it.
They don't want to touch on it and maybe just having the children
thing.
Like, they've done it by having seven, you know, assimilated when
she's a little girl.
Yes, that was terrifying.
That scene where she's in the shuttlecraft and they take the
parents and then she's under the console and they come for her.
The implication of what is going to happen to her is far scarier
than anything you've seen. anything.
Yeah.
And so now we're doing so they caught a virus, a spaceborne virus
which we can now reactivate.
And remember what the virus was.
Like, the great thing about I Borg.
That's what it's called, isn't it?
That then gets fucked up by descent is that they intend to infect
hue with a three-dimensional image that has a weird flaw in it
that is going to cause some computational problem.
And like that's visually in, like I don't even know what that
means.
It's visually interesting and it's like the diagram that Geordie
shows and then just how he describes it.
That's super interesting.
And then it turns out what they infect you with is individuality.
And that's going to go back and change the Borg.
And that's super interesting as well.
The drama in that episode is how everybody reacts to using that.
Some people are appalled, but they would be thinking about doing
it.
You know, and then you've got the consequences of best of both
world in there as well, that seems hard and human.
See, between Picard and Gynan as well.
What about?
Honestly. and it is high drama in terms of the, of the, highest
quality.
And then there's this, which has got the same idea because they do
have a sequence where they, where J-Wo's holding the baby later
and more on that baby later.
Yeah, yeah.
And they're talking and she's got like the poison in one hand and
the baby in the other.
She looks like she's going to go full Ahab, you know, and then she
kind of goes, ah, yeah, no, maybe we won't use that like in the
next scene or something.
It's just like, dramatised.
Is it at all?
No, no.
Yeah.
So Harry's awake.
Looking pretty.
He's just very decorously, like a couple of little burns, but
otherwise, thankfully, on Mars.
He's got to stay looking for a see because he hit that top 100 of
sexiest men.
Yeah, wow.
But I can't ever have him looking too, too.
Pretty man.
It's the only reason he's still in the fucking show.
That's right.
They just take it out on him by never promoting him.
Please, please, can they just put it in a line somewhere in Kurt's
control that he's still an ensign?
You know that he's a captain, though, in the final episode, which
never happened.
The beats of the episode that never happened.
I say, I'll pretend that never happened then.
Yeah.
I can.
Yeah.
So I want to make a proposal negotiating with the ball.
We've done all this in Scorpion, like...
The only thing that's different is a bunch of kids, which makes it
you know, completely less interesting.
And so the deflector array.
Like they take, they, they're supposed to give them the deflector
array, because that's what happens in 1st contact where the Borg
use the deflector array, and we have those scenes on the deflector
array, which are so cool, uh, but which we couldn't afford for
this.
It makes me really sad because the last Borg episode we watched
War Scorpion.
And I just think they were handled so brilliantly in that.
Oh, I'm not sure in the space of 2.5 seasons.
We've got from there to here.
To this.
Well, and it is literally because Scorpion saw a spiking ratings.
This is popular.
Keep doing it.
Keep milking the Borg.
Ooh, Nathan.
Yeah.
Look, look at this.
This actor here playing, you know, the villain of the piece.
The first.
He's particularly bad, isn't he?
Well, yeah, like I think he's okay.
He's very babyfaced, which is actually kind of what we're going
for.
And they do sort of ugly him up a little bit more.
Like he is looking a little bit more cadaverous and a bit more
borgish. you know, with things in his head and all of that and the
mottled skin, you know.
No, he's just shoved Kate Mulgar up against the set there.
Yeah, yeah.
As we've discussed on other episodes, you know, she's got quite a
temper.
When they said car, you imagine what she said to him.
You do that to me again.
I just like the idea that she was this fabulous diva on the set
you know, horrible to everyone.
I know she wasn't.
I like to pretend she was.
I think I think this is long past the point as well, where she has
beef with Jerry Ryan, because that's fitted into the show and it
did help to make the show popping.
And I think somewhere along the line, Mulgrew got over herself and
Jeremy Ryan started dating Brennan Bragger.
It was a producer.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. that's right.
So she couldn't be mean to her anymore.
It was never his looks.
It was always his role and the shield that he offered.
Actually, it's quite a pretty guy, right, right?
Oh, so what is happening here?
Like they're just standing around describing the Borg to each
other.
As you know, Bob, the Borg are very predictable.
Oh, no, it's so boring.
We could save Harry.
I'll have to say, Kate Malkra's acting ability to look concerned
for Garrett Wag is astonishing.
No, he's doing good here.
There he is.
Look, saying lines, looking pretty.
That's what you're paying for.
I'm doing a lot of comparing it, but I do just want to show sort
of how the show's gone downhill.
Remember when we watched the killing game and he was all bloody
and sweated up and he was in the guts of the ship and he was...
Yeah, yeah, yeah. explosions.
Yeah, so there's no physicality to this, is there?
You know, there's no, like there are no explosions on the bridge.
You know, there's a few lights going off and stuff, but there's no
urgency.
There's no physicality.
There's nothing.
Sorry. lots going off.
That's the best we can do folks.
Someone on the light switch.
Nathan, I'm going to say it again, though.
It's because enterprise is coming and they know it and they know
they've just got to ride out the next 2 years.
Right.
This doesn't have to be a success anymore.
It's got the channel up and running.
It's had its moment in the sun.
They can just literally dash off some of the shows.
Yeah.
It's almost accidental that they achieve as many good episodes as
they do in those last couple of years.
And there ain't, you know, in terms of classics.
I'd say there's 2 or 3 in terms of very good, 10 maybe, and the
rest of you are middling to very poor.
Yeah, okay.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I watched one because I couldn't remember it and because
he, you know, it's the Nazi, you know, plays the drone.
Is it one or drone?
Are you forget a drone?
Yeah, drone.
Maybe I'm thinking of drone.
What's one then?
One is the one...
That's her on her own.
It's a walking around the ship all your own.
It's basically Jerry Ryan just acting in empty sets.
Solid gold, as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah.
You've got none of the boring extraneous regular surrounder.
That's it.
Only the best Roberts involved.
Jake May gets a scene at the beginning and the end.
And in fact, when she sits down at the beginning of the episode
she don't want to be around anybody and at the end of the episode
she sits down with her friends. sits down with them and eats or
something.
So she's got a point down.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, okay.
But like...
So are we supposed to think we're going to go on the same journey
with all these kids that we did with 7 of nine?
because they've all got individuality, haven't they?
Yeah, because they haven't been properly matured or something they
haven't been fully assimilated.
And in fact, there is some interesting, there's a sort of
intriguing thing that that she says that 7 says about how her
experiences are Borg and the striving towards perfection or
whatever, that there's something that she's taken from that, that
like it's a source of strength for her.
Like, and and, um, the kids don't have that, you know, because
they've never properly been part of a collective.
Yeah, here's the Voyager crew, ready for them to join.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, I don't know.
It just seems like a dumb idea because you've already done seven.
You don't want to put 7 in a maternal role because one of the
things that's interesting thing about her is that she's not just
someone's mum, you know, or someone's girlfriend, like so many
women on television.
Um, And that she's got this sort of strong, interesting primary
relationship with another woman on the show.
You know, the, you know, not a sexual relationship.
I mean these two, you know, acting together, you know, they're 2
of the best performance, performers on the show, they can kind of
nearly make everything work. don't know.
There was a time in series 4 and 5 where scenes between these 2
sizzled.
Like, you didn't know if they were going to snuck each other
whether she was going to throw 7 of 9 out of an airlock, like, they
were tense and it crackled.
This is so boring.
Yeah, yeah.
But this is the scene where she says something interesting.
This is the scene that I was talking about.
So she talks about what happens in Dark Frontier and the Raven
because we see 2 versions of those, don't we?
And then she has the experience in the maturation chamber or
whatever, and then she finds it as, like, it's a source of, of
strength now, that her what she got from the Borg is something
that she depends on.
And like, I think that's a bit of a recon.
It's like not a very clever speech because we've never seen any
sign of it.
And it doesn't, it doesn't explain anything that we've seen about
her, but it is odd.
It is them going back and thinking about, you know, how is she
going to be different from these kids?
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah, I don't know.
I'm not sure, I'm not sure what's about that, because I was sort
of looking at the dialogue there as that played out, and I was
like, there's nothing here we haven't actually seen already.
Why are we talking about this again?
Yeah.
And I know it's because it leans into the issue of the week, this
week, but I don't know.
I just feel like I just feel like we're on a merry-go-round, you
know, we're going round and round with this thing.
And the more we go around, the less interesting it gets.
Yeah, yeah.
Certainly, you know, I don't think, you know, like technically, oh
here we are in what's it called?
not stalocostometry, astromatrics, where the big PowerPoint
presentations happen.
Oh, look, he's using the playing cards to mark his room.
Oh, I'm like, what?
What's that?
It's being used literally.
But but what even is it?
Like, who does that?
And why are we saying what cancer?
What?
Like, this is not, like, that makes no sense.
Like, it just makes no sense.
And like, I actually like the scene where Mazzotti, you know, has
been collecting the cards behind him and she holds up the queen
and says, I like her.
I think that's good.
That's a little good moment, you know, but, like, to get there, we
have to go through this stupid thing where Harry, like, is just
sticking cards in the wall.
Like, what?
What's happening?
A head of a line.
They just gave tube out there as well.
You know, he goes, all cubes may have a sense of menace, and, but
they're not haunted houses or they're not haunted.
I'm like, yeah, but these scenes don't have a sense of menace.
That's the problem.
They don't.
They absolutely don't have a sense of menace.
Yeah, and I know you mentioned it.
It's this yellow light they use everywhere.
It means the whole thing is just overlit, you know?
Yeah.
You can see a bit too much that it's a tiny set rather than a vast
space.
And that the kids' outfits are just ridiculous.
Like the kids look stupid.
Like, and that's the, that's probably another sort of offbeat
reference there.
It's the most inappropriate costuming since Torch was cyberwoman.
And anyone who hasn't heard of that, use Star Trek fans, go and
Google it.
Yeah, Google it or don't.
As inappropriate as this.
No, she's of age, so it's less inappropriate, I guess.
Yeah.
Now, in a second, the baby is coming back.
So the baby's sick and it's it's a dolly.
It's clearly a dolly because the head sort of shifts about quite
alarmingly and it does remind me of the wonderful tale that Marco
Lame Motels when he had the baby in covenant and the circuits went
crazy and it started spasming and he was trying to act the scene
out with the baby going through.
And I think it has a little wobble when Janeway holds it later
isn't it?
It's really bad and hideous.
Not as bad as that CGI though, aren't you?
Oh my god.
And so here it is.
The animatronic baby.
Surely there's someone on the production crew that was willing to
loan them their newborn or someone on the production crew who had
actually seen a baby before and would be able to say, actually
that doesn't look very much like a baby.
I mean, top boy, she sells it.
Oh, poor Marley.
Look at Marlene, girl, trying to...
Oh, it's so miserable, a poor kid.
And the other 2 coming behind her.
The twins looking astonished, but without any astonishment as
well.
No, the one, they're looking concerned or and maybe, or maybe it's
wind.
The baby.
And so the baby literally disappears.
So we never mentioned the baby again.
It never appears in another episode.
It doesn't stop moving.
It's not...
And not Elaine as well.
They had to redub the whole scene because the servos were
literally like...
We're making it a grinding noise.
But the baby disappears.
Just completely disappears is never mentioned again.
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, no, never once.
And and like Braga says, oh, we it left in an offscreen scene.
And it's just like, well, like this is a TV show.
There are no offscreen scenes.
You just didn't, they didn't leave.
It's still there.
Just never mentioned again.
Wow, maybe it comes back for revenge or something.
Yeah, see, I think these, the kid meets Harry and goes, you left
these.
I like her.
I think that's really...
I don't know whether that's meant to be menacing or what, but it's
kind of sweet, I think.
I like her.
She looks like 7 of nine.
Offer, you've got more taste for this cloying children's stuff
than I do.
You know, like, but like I think she's doing okay.
Like, you know, I can women be okay. in detail, watching Once Upon
a Time, featuring Neelix and Naomi Wildman and their fairy tale
adventures in the Holodeck.
Oh, Trebus and Flodder.
Right.
And, you know, all those scenes of Alexander in TNG season six.
Oh yeah, but there's that great episode, isn't there?
What's the one?
Well, cost of living.
That's the one that I feel was on a time is trying to do.
Yeah, yeah, oh, I definitely think that's what's happening for
sure.
And of course, the most cloying of all, Molly O'Brien.
And in my room.
Rump off, Phil, Kim. that's so cute.
She's so adorable.
With that tiny voice.
It's so funny.
It's so wonderful Now, look, watch the baby now. honestly.
The head, the head sort of jarringly.
Oh, no, it's awful.
It's gross.
It's not quite as bad as that dog.
Do you remember that dog they added a night in sick bass?
and you're in the balls. a dog.
With a hole in its head.
You know, did you did you see that?
Actually, it feels appropriate to mention this as well.
That thing that was posted on Twitter this week about someone
talking about 90s trek, saying, you know, Star Trek nowadays has a
cinematic look about it, and it's not the sort of wobbly treked
Star Trek of old.
And I think they're not talking about the original series.
No, I don't think they are.
They're talking about the us.
Well, I'm watching it now, and I can tell you, there's a little
bit of rusty in what they're saying.
No, no, absolutely.
I've been saying that for ages.
This looks boring.
And I like that, though.
I like that.
Like that weird thing where he's kind of got foil on his neck or
something or there's foil under his skin, you know, like they've
done something.
But again... scorpion.
Yes, and it's really weightless because it never really goes
anywhere, but I think visually that looks interesting.
That's more interesting than just giving him sort of Borg things
all over him.
That's something new and different.
Like, I, you know, I'm going to mention...
But yes, quickly because DSI was doing entirely original things in
this last couple of years.
And they are just churning out the same bollocks that we've seen
over and over again, and I just don't think it's good enough.
Yeah.
And but what I also wanted to say was I just came down hard on 90s
visually, but actually, some of Last Day Voyager, stuff like that
Frontier, killing game, things like that.
They could put the money on the screen as well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and even if it was, you know, like it's always going to be
period CGI, it always is, you know, I reckon there are things on
Strange New World, where it's kind of like, I'm going to let that
pass, but essentially that's a kind of very clearly obvious
special effect or that's not that great or like whatever.
That's Star Trek.
I think that was...
Remember me last week and were those wonderful sequences of gates
flying through the air towards that vortex.
And even today, that looks pretty good, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I agree.
Okay, what's happening now?
Look, the camera is literally just in the corner of this. just...
Yeah, yeah, it's just standing there looking at the fact that this
boy has no pants on.
I wonder if they got the rushes in them just for like, what's she
doing?
Yeah, she's just this is so boring.
Look at that shot.
They're all just standing around.
That is how 80s Doctor Who was sure.
Very theatrically with everybody in the shot in a line.
One big shot with like, you know, how or everyone in it standing
around.
It looks so cheesy and so shit. like 50 science fiction?
If it's a...
An older director, just using older... don't know.
Yeah, I don't know.
Don't know.
Or maybe she thinks sci-fi is looks crap and stagey.
Like you and I, we have talked a lot about direction in 90s Street
but we have mentioned that it can be very good at times as well.
So this isn't the norm. this bad.
No, I think this is much worse than like that was the thing that
struck me more than anything else last night.
I've obviously seen this before, but this is me seeing it for the
1st time in ages.
And look at that.
That's really cartoony, the CGI too.
Can I ask you then, because I'm boring.
It looks boring.
You might have been at the pub with your friend Peter yesterday
mentioning that he really likes this episode.
Did he say why?
No, I don't know.
I don't know.
He says, I can't remember, but he had some good things to say
about it.
But I was just struck by how how plotting it is.
It's boring, I think.
I might ask him, you know, when this comes out.
Maybe it gives me.
Yeah, yeah.
We demand and explain yourself. why you like this?
Oh, there's an over the shoulder shot there.
Yes.
Whoa.
But like we're not going to see the the viewscreen because that'll
cost us money.
Look, look, right to the corner of the set there, in that sort of
alcove.
No, what's happening?
Is there a guy there?
to the side of the bridge.
There's an alcove where someone's sitting in it pressing buttons.
Because we, that's how often shoot on at the regulars where
they're sitting.
We don't often see that, man.
He must feel a little bit underrepresented.
Oh dear.
Oh, that was so shit.
They're wobbling.
They're wobbling acting now, the camera's wobbling.
Oh, overloading the shield matrix.
Oh, not the shield matrix.
Look, the girl seems very upset about the shield matrix.
Tim Ross just went, the shield fluctuations are dropping.
Oh, he's dying inside.
Boosting the confinement beam.
He really deserves an award for this.
This is so it's so miserable.
Poor old Tim.
Holy shit.
Even Janeway got in on it, then amplify the shield pulse.
I bet Bilana was like, I do the techna babble.
All right.
Oh, dear idea.
So we're just, so this, we're all just standing around.
We're all just standing around.
Oh my god, like, say someone, yes, lower the shield.
I reckon there hasn't been a line for about 3 minutes.
It hasn't been about the shields.
It's so boring.
So we're kind of acknowledging that the lack of drama is in both
the direction and the script.
Oh, this is really bad too.
Like, what's the kid doing?
So this is the...
To try and draw a positive out of this.
I do think that Manu, how do you say his surname?
I don't know.
Interiorami?
I don't know.
But actually, he does go on to deliver... some good performances
in series 7 and his relationship with 7.
It does carry some emotional weight because in imperfection, which
is the 2nd episode of series 7. and they're doing another, Oh, 7
and 9 is going to die.
And then it's like, oh, no, wait, each Eb's going to die.
And she says to him, stop it, you're hurting me. 1st is dead.
In a way that...
The 1st is dead. actually gives some weight to their
relationship.
So I remember that does come out of this.
Yeah.
It wasn't.
I don't.
Yeah, I don't think he's bad.
And in fact, I remember thinking that it's a shame because the 1st
character is their big kind of antagonist and it would have been
good to have a strong actor as the first.
I kept, you know, obviously we keep Icheb and he's a better
performer, but it, you know, it did seem a shame that he wasn't
given something more interesting to do and that the kid is not
that great.
And like, what is this?
There's a whole thing about abandonment here.
You know, the kids never properly feel or understand that they're
abandoned and in a way, what Ryan's character, what the 1st wants
is for his parents to come back and start looking after him
again.
Do you know what I mean?
Like there's something that they could make of this?
These people have lost their parents.
And now they've been abandoned by the Borg, but it all doesn't
mean anything to them and they're not even aware of it.
Like there's something that you could do here.
There's just not analogous to anything.
No, no.
But I've never been surgically ordered to be a Borg and then a
band...
No, no, no.
But that's okay.
That doesn't have to be that, but like you get the kids to play it
and they're tough and stuff, but what's really happening is
they're scared because they suspect they've been abandoned.
And that's something that you could play and that you could
understand as an audience member and it's right there, but they
don't do it, you know.
Well, I believe you see the kids again when they think Egypt's
going, and now you've reminded me, they're in those very cute
scenes in the haunting of deck 12 where Neelix is telling them
that a story around the plasma fire, whatever it is.
Yeah, about whatever's going on that week.
And then they're abandoned.
I did just notice then they did drop in a line where she said
we've contacted the ships of their races.
Yes, and we've had no responses yet.
So that's their get out clause.
Should they turn up?
Yeah, yeah, or if they decide never to do them again.
Oh, thank God, they're in close. will never mention them.
Yes, yes, they've been put in terrible, terrible 90s trek
casuals.
Been back to the gap and bought in a job load of pretty clothes.
Is Egypt wearing a wig?
Or is his hair grown back?
I mean, I hate to say this, but after all those miserable scenes
on the ball cube.
I'm so pleased we're back in the cargo bay, I've just seen some of
those gray containers.
I like the head taken ones.
Do you know, those costumes truly do accentuate Jerry Ryan's
breasts, don't they?
I mean, that is...
They're functioning as intended, I think.
Do you know what?
This was my favourite scene in the whole episode.
The way she plays this for quite warmly.
Off you go to bed now, can you?
You know?
But I'm glad that that's not what they decide to do with her
because I think that's a little bit kind of...
We can't have the fucking Brady Bunch on Voyager.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, no, that'd be great.
But these are not the Brady Bunch.
I mean, you think they would alert their lesson.
All those scenes of Naomi Wildman going up to aliens going, you
know, I am the ambassador of Voyager.
Hello?
And I was like, oh, my God.
We're going to do that.
Jerry's doing a little bit of acting there as the thing closes.
Like, there's, she's, it's like, you know, the end of Scorpion
part 2, where it's just a shot of, is it part 2, where it's just a
shot of her, and it's kind of like, what the fuck happens now?
Or is that the end of part?
Yeah.
Yeah, it's the end of part two.
And it's just kind of like, well, now what happens?
Holy shit.
And for a 2nd she's there and she feels a little moment of
apprehension about whether she can be a parent or not, and
obviously it's not going to pay off because the show doesn't do
that sort of thing.
Nathan, I'm happy to report that this, the next episode did start
immediately.
It is spirit folk.
Spirit folk, and it is Tom Paris in an out of control automobile
on the Paramount batlog going around like toad of total going, poop
poop.
It's really different.
Oh my god.
I have to turn it off quickly.
I'll say the season 6 of Star Trek Borger was not Trek's finest
hour.
No, clearly not.
And this was, yeah, yeah.
I think this fails in all sorts of ways.
And it just fails because it's not really about anything.
It's about getting some children on Voyager and is that a good
idea anyway?
You know, like I don't know.
Does this go down as the most boring episode we've done yet, or is
that still dramatis persona?
No, I actually think Manhunt is the most boring episode because
it's just got nothing going for it.
Like it's just nothing's happening.
It's incredibly boring.
I think that this could have been something with a better director
and just a little bit more thought, like just a little bit more
effort to make anything land.
You know, there's that revelation that the 1st has deliberately
not allowed e-cheb's voice modulator or whatever it is to be
fixed.
Like he's aware that it could be fixed, but he's not doing it.
And he's said to E-Cheb.
When the collective come back for us they'll fix your voice then.
So he's manipulating him.
You know, but that, then nothing ever gets said of it again, it
doesn't have any weight, it doesn't change Echeb's attitude to the
first.
You know, like nothing lands.
So it's a bunch of things that happen, but they don't happen to
anyone.
They're not afraid to turn Janeway into a one-dimensional
psychotic this season.
It happened a few times already.
But what I should have done was just like, had a, on the sly
injected those kids with the toxin and then said, right, we'll
send them back to the Borg.
They're beyond redemption, you know?
See, there is, again, that's that thing where she's got the poison
in one hand and the baby in the other hand and she's looking like
a maniac and then nothing happens.
Would not be boring.
But like, you know, I'm like, I'll bring up tubics again because
it's an ending that people still debate and disagree on now.
But, you know, nobody forgets.
No one's going to remember this.
No.
Yeah.
Including us.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, next week, we'll have no idea what we were talking about, I
think.
What's the episode that we covered this week?
I don't know.
It had Borg children with no pants on.
All right, it's the end of the episode and it is time for us to
work out what on earth we're going to be watching next.
I chose I chose Voyager last week, uh, which turned out okay.
And now it's your turn to pick Joe. So what series are we choosing
from?
It means you are entirely responsible for the Yawn Fest we just
watched.
I'll try and do better.
Exactly if I can.
Well, look, I feel as if we've done a lot of 90s trek lately, so I
can't believe I'm saying this, but I've taken all of the 90s trek
out of the randomiser and we're left with the original series
animated series and Kurtzman trek.
Okay.
And to be fair, we've done a nice broad spectrum of quality as
well.
Because we did Change of Face of Evil, that we loved, remember me
that we loved, but then also collective.
The episode of Enterprise from series 3, Proving Grounds.
Proving ground.
Okay.
No, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I thought it was okay.
There was stuff to talk about anyway.
So let's see where we get with everybody else.
Okay, your random Star Trek, the original series episode is season
two, episode seven.
Cats Paw.
I've heard of that, but I'm not quite sure what it is. don't have
a clue what that's about.
No, it's the 1st episode with Chekhov.
And it has magical people.
Our castle and magical people.
I think I've seen this and I think it's probably garbage.
But I could be wrong.
It could be absolutely suburb.
Let's press it again. although that does magical people.
That does sound great.
With your random Star Trek Lower Decks episode is season three
episode four.
Room for growth.
We've actually rolled this before and I quite like it.
And it has 2 plots.
There's one where the lower deckers are trying to get an upgrade
to the room that they, you know, an upgrade to their quarters
because they live in that corridor and stuff and they're competing
with Delta Shift or something to try and get this new room in the
room lottery when they learn that it's available.
It's the one where a masks type incident has just happened on
board. on the Cerritos.
See, that's smart enough to have the Apple off screen.
No, it doesn't happen offscreen, you do see it.
And then so the engineering crew have to go to a sort of rest cure
in a spa and they kind of refuse to rest and the captain gets more
and more tense.
It is pretty funny.
I have watched it recently and I do like it quite a lot, but
uh...
I would like to do that, but I have just pressed the button one
more time.
Okay, good.
Yep.
And it's landed on something quite interesting.
Oh, what?
All right.
Because it's a back door pilot for something else, I think.
Oh, a random star.
The original series episode is season two, episode 26, Assignment
Earth.
Yeah.
I love that.
I've never watched. seen that episode.
I have seen it.
And obviously it gets referenced in series 2 of Picard.
Mm. as a thing.
I think we should.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's the original series, even when it's Scotty on murdering a
load of people.
Stabbing people.
Yeah.
We have fun, whatever it is.
Yeah.
What you think?
Yep, I say do it.
You've been listening to Entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley.
We're online at Untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find
subscription links and links to our social media accounts.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Siserran, and the theme was
composed by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 22nd of August 2023, and released
on the 25th of August.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek, the original series
Assignment Earth.
Okay, assignment Earth, here we come.
All right, brilliant.
Ah...
I really fancy...
We rolled that before, actually.
We've rolled room for growth before, but we've got something
against it.
Well, except it, let me just tell you that at the moment, we are
well overrepresented in Lartex, we have done 4 out of 24
episodes.
So that's 16.67% compared to original series where we've done
10%.
Oh, okay.
That's fair then.
Yeah.
And we have overall done 9.51%.
So...
Nearly at 10%.
We're nearly a 10% overall.
Underrepresented, uh, enterprise, Voyager, would you believe?
And because there's a lot of Voyager, you know, and we've done
some of it and the films, which we should do at some point.
Well, Christmas is coming, you know.
We did one a year. special special special.
Well, it takes us a special.
If it takes us, you know, a year and a half to 10%, what a year is
about, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I guess so.
That's kind fair enough.
Yeah, prodigy actually is 15.79% because we've done 3 hours of
19.
I know, but I think we just choose it, like, who knows what comes
along next?
I will be choosing Strange New Worlds fairly soon.
Yeah, that's 15%.
That's still slightly below lower date.
Where's DF 4 in that?
18 out of 173.
Marvel, I think.
No, but we've done 14 next gen and 13 Voyager. you know, they're
comparable runs.
You know what I mean?
So, yeah. anyway, that's kind of a fun thing.
I wasn't gonna, we can't let that make us decide.
Do you know what I mean?
That's just more information.
It doesn't matter, you know.
It's so weird.
The more the more we're doing, boy, the more I realise, you know, a
lot of people just say, oh, it's just a lot of the same.
There are specific periods of the show.
The 1st so the pill of 2 years.
Yeah.
Where they're trying to do something DS9 and lie, then the Jerry
Taylor season where it's all...
Then the Brannenbraga, Berman, 4 and 5, where they're trying to
jazz it up a bit and make it a bit more exciting.
And then the last 2 years, which are...
It's kind of like they're just churning the shit out, waiting out
the clock.
Yeah, it's a bit depressing, isn't it?
We can't do them all.
Yeah, yeah.