Hey, Joe. Hi.
So, we are right at the end of Deep Space 9 this week.
We're in the final 10 episode run that Vic Fontaine was singing
about with Ben Sisco just a few episodes earlier.
So this is the changing face of evil, and I want to say it's like
episode 20 or something of series 7.
The whole sort of last 10 episodes was advertised as the final
chapter.
Big Space and I, the final chapter.
Um, yeah, and change phase.
I think it is the 20th, yeah.
Yeah.
And what do you think?
Oh, what do I think?
Come on.
People at home want to know.
I think that they played season 7. brilliantly.
I do think there are some weaknesses in the 1st half of season
seven.
You've got stuff like Prodigal Daughter, the Emperor's new cloak
that weird one where the genetic mutant comes along and Bashir
tries to seduce her, despite the fact that he's her doctor and
she's his patient.
But it does also have, you know, we did image in the sand and
shout out some symbols, take me out to the hollow suite, had a
being better bang.
But it is essentially sort of marking time because they know that
they're going to do this whopping gray arc at the end of the
series.
And what's been interesting is I watched this, adored it, of
course I did.
Then I went back and watched the 3 episodes that led up to this
and now I'm watching the episodes that follow on from this.
Because this is terrific stuff, I think.
I think back in the day, I was convinced this was like hard
science fiction, you know, like very serious Star Trek, you know
on a war footing and due to many conversations with you.
Now I'm aware this is just an enormous soap opera.
And I just have a huge taste for soap opera.
I thought it was just magnificent and it was precisely because it
was soap opera.
And I think we did an episode of Discovery a while back, right?
And it was part of the Mirror Universe arc, which is about 5
episodes long, and it was like the worst episode of the Mirror
Universe.
Yeah, yeah, not bad.
No, no, but just everyone's plot is inched along just sort of
slightly and nothing very big happens and so it ends up being sort
of fairly disposable.
Here, it's the opposite, where you have several really kind of
massive events. happen.
Like pretty seriously massive events.
But the plots just sort of keep being inched along and stuff.
And I have a theory about what happens, right?
Or why this happens.
And I think what it is.
They've got a lot of threads that they want to close.
They've got a lot of characters that they want to do the right
thing by.
But because contractually they're kind of obliged to have everyone
in every episode, they can't do the Ducart Kai-win episode, they
can't do the DeMar episode.
So what they have to do instead is just serialise all of them all
the way through. so that everyone gets a go all the time.
You know, the doctor is bizarrely on board the Defiant for this
big battle, for instance, for no other reason, except that he has
a plot that needs to keep going.
I mean he often is.
It's worth remembering every time they go off in the defiant, he's
there.
Just in case there's a casualty, you know. right.
That's Okawa's sisters back at the station, you know, looking
after it.
Okay.
The infirmary.
But the soap opera thing is so much fun.
I mean, it's so enjoyable.
Well, can I give you a quote from Ira Stephen Bear?
There's something to say about this as well.
Okay.
He says he was a big fan of how this episode mixes the larger war
stories with the trivial domestic stories.
So he says, we like the idea of showing the domestic life.
In the midst of all the pressures that Cisco is under.
He still has issues at home.
He's still a human being.
Cassidy still burns his peppers and that hurts.
Life is hard.
You should not have your peppers burnt under any circumstances.
No, you mean something else.
But that subplot is great.
The Cassidy Ben subplot, it builds upon something that we've
already seen before, and then the other subplot, which is like
Miles and Julian, and war.
Something going on there, right?
Yeah, and Wharf and Esri as well.
Like, that's really great.
It's not massive.
You know, it doesn't take up a lot of time, but it's really
enjoyable and it's what we want.
Like, I don't think we want just endless space battles and war and
seriousness and stuff because that's not what the show has been
for 7 years.
The show has been about these characters that we really like, that
we know well, that work well in various sort of groupings and
stuff.
And we want to see stuff happening to them, not just stuff
happening.
And so I think it's terrific.
What's astonishing is how much ground they cover in these 10
episodes.
And I did sort of read an interview where they said they really
wanted to do it over a season, but that was just never going to
happen.
I think for them to get 10 episodes.
At this point is a miracle.
But like, you know, so far in this 10 episode arc.
You've had the whole Ezri goes looking for wharf and they've had a
bit of a fling and then decided for a series of fabulous sitcom
moments where he, you know, points out she's the biggest slut of
Deep Space 9. that they're not going to be in a relationship and
they're actually going to be friends.
You've had Kai Wynn coming to the station to officiate Cisco's
wedding because perhaps he thought she wasn't available.
Um, and um, you know, being surgically ordered in fabulous soap
opera fashion and seducing her.
And that's done over a couple of episodes.
And then in the same breath, you've got Demar sick of Weyune
constantly niggling out here and realising he's actually a 2nd
class citizen on his own planet and they're being totally
manipulated and used as cannon fodder, giving up the booze.
That's a very important moment in a couple of episodes before this
where he throws the canara, the mirror, and decides to turn a
corner.
That's bubbling along.
Cisco got married to Cassidy in the last couple of episodes.
That's bubbling a lot.
And you're right, all of these plots are inching along.
None of it feels rushed, I don't think.
No.
And the best part of all is all of it is being buoyed by just this
phenomenal cast that they've assembled.
So the acting is amazing in these 10 episodes.
So it means if it's when you hit with, you know, the change of
face of evil, it sort of plays like day in the life of all these
people for about 30 minutes, with things sort of inching along and
a bit of suspense and things like that.
But then in the last 10 minutes, it's like, we're going to destroy
the defiant winds finally going over to the dark side for good and
demand defecting from the Dominion.
And because we understand the characters, because we're so
invested in the characters.
It's their reactions to those events that gives you the chills in
those moments that really makes those moments impact.
Yeah, yeah.
I think that that's, you know, why it ends in a surprising place, I
think, for an episode that has an attack on Earth, for an episode
that has the destruction of the defiant.
It actually ends in a different place from what you expect, and I
think that's a good choice.
I have to say though, that I don't think that this version of the
show would have worked for much longer than this.
I think it is a thing that you can do in the lead up to the end
but I think you still do for Star Trek need to tune in for a
particular thing to happen.
So the kind of serialisation that, say, discovery does, which is
each episode coheres around an idea, and it's the same people then
experiencing the next step on.
They're all linked, but they are single individual episodes.
Certainly that's how Discovery Series 3 and 4 worked at least.
That's not what we have here.
That's the sort of serialisation.
I think that's introduced by enterprise in series 3 and four, for
instance.
I think it's worth remembering with this. you know, we're building
up to the end of the series.
So they can afford to be as bold as they want exactly.
And, you know, this is exactly the same point in DS9 that Genesis
was in the next generation.
And they are like chalk and cheese in terms of substance and
content.
Now, I'm not going to say which one's better.
Oh, you know which one, I think it's better, but this is where
Star Trek's come along since, you know, season 7 of the next
generation.
Actually, I don't know if you watched the what they left behind
DS9 documentary.
No, but I should.
I really should.
It's it's got some great trivia in there.
But they get all the writers together for one day.
They've all got busy lives now.
You know, Ron Moore went off and did Battle Cycle out to get RS
Stephen Beers done a ton of shows.
Like they're all really, you know, they're doing work.
And they all come together in the old writer's room where they
wrote DS9 on the whiteboard that they use.
It's still there and they pitch season eight, episode one.
And you can see how they were sort, like, we've said before, how
they're literally making it up and going, oh, my God, wouldn't it
be cool with, oh, and do you remember when we did that?
So let's lead that to this.
And so you actually get an insight into how they were creating
this at the time.
They don't just do the same thing.
You're right.
Like, this would have come to a conclusion here.
And I think if there was a serious eight.
They weren't obvious to keep going doing the same thing.
They would have gone off in another direction and done something
really exciting.
Yeah.
Because this is the one Star Trek maybe apart from the big change
between Discovery series 2 and series 3 that fundamentally changes
its premise.
But unlike Discovery, it does it over and over again.
Nearly every season the premise changes.
And I think that's amazingly interesting.
And so it's the one that's allowed to do a big soap opera in the
lead up to the end of it because it is going to create a whole new
status quo for the end.
When you've got Louise Fletcher, saying these soap opera lines and
Mark Alamo and people, and then our visitor going, you know, that's
what happens when you share your toys.
So cute.
Oh, that's glorious.
And Penny Johnson.
So great.
So superb.
I just wanted to say to you, Nathan.
I'm going to go speak to your boss and say, please don't turn my
husband on any more dangerous missions.
Just as that hits as well.
Oh, it's great.
Yeah.
She's really good Yeah, and you know, what a savviest moves they
did in the last season.
They've highlighted the regulars for 6 years previous to this.
They chose to pit select several of the secondary cars.
Cassidy gets a ton of material in seven.
DeMar does, Wayoon does, Kai Wynn and Ducat.
You know, they've sort of cherry picked, one of our best secondary
characters, and let's just give them some great material.
Yeah, no, I think they've done a really, really good job and this
is a really fun hour of TV, I reckon.
Whatever you and me talk about a Star Trek soap, it's just the
best thing ever.
So that's going to have some fun.
All right.
Okay.
Well, I will count us in.
Let's go 5, 4, 3, 2, one, and we're off.
Really, not a typical Star Trek episode because we're picking up
without a previously on.
Yeah.
They're arriving back on the station because they've been away for
3 episodes.
This is very much a previously on because they're all explaining
things to each other. you know, this is sort of classic exposition
scene.
They manage to crack a joke about Morn.
You know?
Yeah.
I do feel like the banter, the dialogue in this episode. they kind
of they're getting there.
If they're not completely there.
No, they're very fun.
And Ezrie, doesn't Ezrie just feel like she just fits in now?
Yeah, yeah.
She's so cute.
She's adorable.
I said this before, but I think she is adorable.
And I love how he, you know, isn't cross.
He calls her old man immediately rather than rousing on her for
sort of leaving without permission sort of thing.
It's, it's, again, I found that this actually helped me get into
sort of position to find out where they were.
This actually worked.
It did the job because I hadn't watched the previous episode for a
while.
This got me in there.
I think it does quite a good job and it's reasonably entertaining
you know.
Well, they've gone down this route because all the other episodes
of these 10 have a previously on, which tells you exactly where
they've been.
So just for one episode, they've decided to have this scene at the
beginning.
Oh, look, here's Bashir, given her moon eyes.
Yeah, so...
Oh, for a plot number one.
Well, I actually really like this.
So Wharf is having to be a grown-up now.
You know, Jed Z is gone.
Here Nazri have had a thing, but I've decided it doesn't work.
And so he is a confidant, isn't he?
Her confidante.
I'm discussing...
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I think that works really well for Worf, too, because he gets
to be sort of slightly snarky and stuff.
He's really fun.
He plays with toys.
Yeah, yeah. over and over again.
Well, you've got to remember is, Do you know how the, do you
remember how the, the Ezri Bashir, you know, the fact that she's
got feelings for him was revealed. is the most soap opera thing
they ever did.
So she's been tortured by the Breen energy weapons, yeah?
So she's in a sort of day state on the bed and she's going, oh, no
no.
Kiss me, Julian.
It's an exposition coma.
And they're the close-up on wharf, looking absolutely horrified
because I just had sex.
Oh my god, it's so funny.
Oh, God.
And then he gets to those wonderful lines where he goes, you know
considering how many men you have slept with.
That is quite a statement.
I think he's great when he's a bit of a bitch, you know, wolf.
Yeah, yeah. they're just writing funny. you know?
Yeah.
Yeah, it's funny, isn't it?
Because that character had a completely different role, the being
wrong role on Star Trek, the Next Generation, as I've observed.
But here he's just part of the ensemble and he gets to be funny.
I don't know if you remember, but in 2 episodes time, is when
Gowron comes along, takes away command from Martok and starts
fucking up the war completely, sending out the...
Yeah, and then Edgerie sits wharf down and says, do you know
what?
I think the going on Empire is on the verge of extinction and I
think it deserves to die.
It doesn't work here anymore.
And, you know, to say that to Warf, who's initially horrified and
then acknowledges that she's right and then goes and does
something about it, even murders Garon in the moment.
I think on way possible.
But that relationship, it's really, it's wreaking like rewards
now.
So we heard about the attack.
That was how we went into the credits.
So we, that entire pre-credit sequence was just a conversation in
one of the corridors, the space corridors.
And then we hear about the attack on Earth.
We come and we see the attack on Earth on their tiny screen.
That's about...
CGI is not fisticated enough. how much we need to see.
We don't need any more than that.
Look, it was okay.
It's not bad.
You've got like lots of people running around Starfleet
headquarters in a panic.
Yeah, yeah, it's not too bad.
But it's made the point, isn't it, is that they basically made a
massive, you know, the Earth's always considered like, you know
the beacon of hope for the Federation.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And because it's sort of central, it's not on the outskirts.
It's not on a border, you know.
Um, yeah.
Yeah.
But you know what?
I do have one complaint about this episode.
And I always really like Avery Brooks.
I thought he was very underplayed throughout this entire episode.
He's doing that sort of soft menacing purr throughout.
Oh, no.
The brain.
So I think at this point in the series, they've decided that they
need the brain and the brain are good and are a good addition, but
they don't want to add any new characters and possibly they don't
want to pay any additional actors.
And so the brain can just be people standing around in suits
making that sort of weird electronic thing, which, you know
they're weird and inscrutable.
We never see their faces and stuff, but it is a budgetary issue as
well.
I love in a strange bedfellows.
So that's too previous to this when, you know, that's exposed to
breed dominionized.
There's a scene that starts with the breeding game, blah, blah, you
know, that weird burly noise.
And then Wayun just cracks into laughter and goes, oh, what a
funny joke.
We don't even need to make up the jokes anymore.
Yeah.
No, but isn't that isn't that the joke?
The joke is them playing with the fact that they're not riding
lines for the brain and that even happens in this scene.
The, the, um, they look a lot like, you know, at the beginning of
Return of the Jedi when Leia turns up in Jabber's Palace, dress as
a bounty hunter, and that's what they remind me of.
That's the same sort of helmet, I think.
Damar.
Let's talk about...
God, he's good in this scene and he's really good.
Like, he was good before, but seeing him on the front foot and
seeing him be, you know, be a bit less pathetic, watching him grow
a pair.
He's so great.
He's really good.
And the sort of the amount of time they gave him throughout these
10 episodes to turn that corner.
Oh, hang on.
We'll come back to tomorrow.
No one touches my peppers.
Okay.
I love the stove prop.
Look at the prop. that they're using for the style.
Well, it's like you said about Strange New World.
They have scenes where the whole cruise in there and he's whipping
up an omelet and things like that, you know, that sort of nice
sort of physical social encounter that you don't really have
anywhere else.
And I suppose you do with Neelix, don't you, in the mess hole?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
But like having the command crew, you know, come together. can
actually cook.
That's the difference.
Yeah, hideous, you know.
Leola root stew and things like that.
Oh, I love, I, look, they're just so naturally intimate with each
other as well.
She is so good.
I mean, I think the sad thing is, like, we don't get any Cisco
this episode, and the relationship between Eddie Cisco, any Jake
this episode.
And the relationship between Ben and Jake does take a back seat, I
think, to the relationship between Ben and Cassidy towards the end
of the series, which I think is a bit of a shame.
People were appalled, weren't they, when he says goodbye to
Cassidy in the last episode and then not to Jake?
But then that does leave you with that really sort of melancholic
final scene where he's staring out at the wormhole.
I thought that was a really, it's almost like, you know, it's not
quite over.
He'll be back.
Yeah.
Also, I like I like this character of Rassat a lot because that's
who Demar used to be. before he fell under Weighing's thumb.
I was saying that Demar has a demand now. like he has his own
demand.
He's got so good.
And, and I have to say too, that I, I actually think that we lose
something in the change in um, Ducart's character and in the
changing wind's character.
But having demand now as the guy in charge of the Cardassians
which kind of makes sense, he's so good.
It's... and that's what's interesting about it.
From the 2nd he took control or not, because he was way of
hopeless.
He was hopeless.
Yeah, and they knew that and they exploited that.
And suddenly 1000000s of Cardassians are dying because he's not
strong enough to say, well, he is now, but he wasn't then to say
you know, we're not going to, we're not going to use them like
that.
Rasot goes on to be so interesting.
He's got 2 more episodes after this.
Okay. before Damara is the one.
So basically, Kira, in a very savvy move from the writers, has to
join the Cardassian resistance and help them overthrow.
It's the ultimate irony Yeah, the best plot thread of the entire
last 10.
Um, and DeMar, I was going to have to choose between either
killing Kira or killing Rassart.
So basically the new Cardassia or the old Cardassia.
Yeah, yeah.
And it's such a brilliant scene because you know, for a 2nd you
don't quite know which way he's going to go.
It's wonderful.
The other thing too is that Casey Bigs is sort of handsome. isn't
he?
Like he's a good looking man, even under all the lizard makeup.
He's got sort of subtle charisma as well.
Yes, yeah, I think so too.
So speaking about the under the lizard makeup, this scene is
absolutely hilarious.
So we have Soulbore and...
She's cancelling all of her appointments. because she doesn't want
to do anything with anyone and she's saying I'm going to do a lot
of meditation and stuff.
So just piss off and leave me alone.
And then, and then, like, in a normal drama, that entrance there
of gull, you can't would have been him wrapped in a towel kind of
drink.
Because he comes out and starts ordering breakfast from Soulbore
and like clearly they've been fucking and, you know, and Soulbore
goes, Ah, yes, I see.
You know, like that's the conclusion that he comes to as well.
No day for he goes.
I see.
He's so, he's literally, he spends his whole, this whole episode
just appalled at everything that's going on.
And so I do agree with you.
I do think Win and Ducat are sort of more comic book villains now
than the very multifaceted villains they were before.
Yeah.
But, and it's a big thing.
What you get is massively funny, high camp scenes with 2 amazing
acts.
It's the slimiest romance you're ever going to see on television
between Gold Ducat and Kai Wynn and I just love both actors.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, they just turn a line, can't let both of them.
Yeah.
But like the interesting thing about her character.
Like we have Kia Parker in series one and then she goes away and
Kai Wynn turns up and her 1st big thing is insisting that
creationism gets taught in the school, you know, um, uh, and I
think that her kind of she's devious and manipulative and has this
sort of um, surface kind of piety which you can't buy and which is
also, which you can't really buy and which is really slappable
well.
She's so low.
I've heard her cool, you know?
Yeah, but I think it's better than that.
And I think she's so loathsome.
Like she's, you really, really want her to get her comeuppance and
she never does.
She was great.
She's always loathsome with a smile, you know?
Yeah, yeah. sort of self-satisfied smile.
Yeah, it's wonderful.
It's a great religious leader.
That's what they like.
They're all like that.
But you know, I will I'll make a defence of the 1st couple of
episodes of this art, though, where she thinks she's been
contacted by the prophets in Till Death to Us part.
Then Dukart comes in and it's a massive manipulation by the power
raves.
Then she realises it's a power ride. appalled and she actually
there's a sequence where she just begs to one of the orbs.
Please talk to me, oh, renounce them, you know, and all of that.
So it's not like it's something that happens very quickly.
You do see the transition from.
But I think it's at this point, change your face of evil.
She's just evil now, you know, and that loses all the subtlety.
Well, in fact, she's not quite evil yet, and it is because she
doesn't know that this is Duquart.
And, of course, she's going to stab softball.
You recognise the face of your enemy.
Oh, okay.
So this Alamo toy.
I mean, what was it about the Alamo in the last season and this
pair?
Yeah, so what are they doing?
So this is what they're doing to disguise the fact that they're
kind of shagging like rabbits when everyone else is out of the
room.
It is kind of acknowledged in one of the episodes coming up where
Bashir says, you know, I love Ezri, but I like you a bit more.
So it's all I'm heading in that direction.
And then Miles just goes, well, I love my wife, all right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Straight panic.
What I was thinking about this, I was like, this is just like
people playing Warhammer and those sort of games, isn't it?
in the shops.
You know, there's something to take their mind off the fact that
terrible things are going on.
And it's a famous loss, isn't it?
Like it's a famous catastrophic loss.
Remember the Alamo.
And so I think that having them play with an Alamo thing, I mean
we know that everything's going to be fine, but I do think that
there's an edge to that being the thing that they're playing with
at the moment.
I like cork's nerves as well.
Like, for once, he's just not the comedy character in the scene.
He's like, I think we should build a moat around the station.
Yeah, you know Yeah.
He can't believe that they're just playing.
Oh, this is even better with toys.
He is a child.
When it says later on, with little figures and she goes, it's a
model, okay?
But she deliberately misunderstands him and he says he calls her
on it.
You know, I was talking about Bashir and you know it.
You know, like they're actually working really, really well
together. he looks over the balcony, doesn't he?
And he goes, you know, I could defend that four, you know, and she
goes, well, look, if you want to go and play with them, off you go
you know.
All boys together.
And she is being a bit defensive.
Like she is kind of a bit like she sees his point.
It's cute.
I think it is cute.
Do you remember the sequence where Bashir, it actually finally get
together when they're going up in the turbo lift together and then
it comes up into ops.
By the time they get there, they're snogging.
And everyone can see, and Wolf goes, oh, God.
And he presses the button to get the lift to go back down.
It's complete a total soap operato.
That's why we love it Yes, okay.
So this is the beat where he says it's not defendable.
I really want to, I would like to talk about how they visually
differentiate the 3 locations in this as well because, okay, yeah.
I think we've got a lot of different sets in play here, don't
you?
You've got the defiant, the station, Cardassia, Bajor, and I think
they're doing more so than design, although design's involved.
It's the lighting in all the different places and they're doing
lots of establishing shots as well.
So you keep getting that shot of Bajor with the temples and the
waterfalls, that all Willian shot of Cardassia.
It feels like we're on a big stage now.
This scene, like, um, Casey Biggs is so good in this scene with
Wayoon.
Look at him.
He's like absolutely in control.
He's holding back. you know, there's none of the sort of
patheticness.
And and Wayoon is actually a little bit on the back foot as well.
And he's a total gossip as well about the brain, isn't he?
I wondered whether this was actually doing a funny retcon of
something about the brain because the brain do get mentioned in
TNG, I think.
And then that's just a name that they use, you know, for this.
But I kind of like the idea they just wear the refrigeration suits
for no reason.
Like, why do they do that?
Oh, I don't know if you noticed that they, throughout the episode
it's an interesting directional choice, they often have a
Cardassian behind Wayoon when he's in seats and they're setting up
that last scene where the Cardassians have turned and he's got one
bit and he gives him like a look like, 0 God, I've got to watch my
back now, you know?
Look at that.
Look how good looking he is.
Look, even despite the lizard maker. lips as well, isn't it?
He's got nice lips.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, like talking about actors that can turn a line, Jeffrey
Combs.
There's something different about you today, DeMar.
Is he the campus character in Star Trek?
It's pretty great, isn't he?
He is very canned. stepped out into the light once again.
And the thing is that he is completely wrong. and Damar isn't
really giving him anything or, you know, like he's, he's kind of
and you know me so well because he's completely misanalyzed
exactly what's going on.
And then, uh, then, uh, um, why in says, oh, you know, um, isn't
it nice when we, when we agree, you know, like he's completely...
Yes, I like it so much better when we agree.
I totally misread the entire sequence.
It's a little tight smile from demand.
Well, we haven't seen before.
One big happy family, aren't we?
So I think we know.
We do know, don't we?
Because we had the conversation with, what's his name, Resant or
something.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So again, you know, she was teaching creationism and she was
joining, you know, like doing treaties and and having barile
killed, which is, you know, fair enough.
But here it's magic books.
She has to find a magic book.
And it's so like, no, it's a magic book that after you've murdered
somebody and spilled our blood on it.
The words appear.
Yeah, then the words appear.
And she even pretended to me. don't like that shit, right?
No, I love it.
It's wonderful.
And it's so not science fiction at all.
And all I can think about, like, I've never watched Days of our
Lives, but my friend, my very close friend, Robert Watches, watches
it all the time.
And it's a soap, daytime soap opera, American daytime soap opera
but like the lead is sometimes possessed by the devil and they go
and they look for magic artefacts and stuff.
It's not, like it's, it's, you know, supposed to be sort of an
everyday thing, but there's supernatural stuff that happens in
it.
And that's what this is.
Like this is a soap opera.
And, you know, even the fact that outside the window, there's a
painted backdrop, a pretty great painted backdrop, but still, you
know, reminded me of Dante's Cove, you know, which is a gay soap
opera, a really dreadful one.
But it's a gay soap opera with like witchcraft leanings to it.
Yes, it was very often spells and magical books and, you know, in
between all the anal sex as well.
Yeah, well, it was a great, a great watch, obviously.
Well, it's the same period, isn't it?
It's 90s, isn't it?
Dante's Cove?
yeah.
Yeah.
I do like as well that throughout these scenes, Soulboy is
constantly trying to claw her back, you know, someone's on her
side.
Yeah, yeah.
The guy punches him in the face, the poor fella.
That's so great.
That's pretty good.
And he sort of goes, yeah, wow, I haven't punched people in the
face for a while.
That was great.
You know, he's got his fist, isn't he?
He gets his hand and sort of like goes, yeah, that was that was
good.
That felt good. doing that.
But then when he comes back in the room and she's asleep and he
sort of gives her a look like a snake approaching it, cry.
And then sort of goes, wake up, my love.
It's so funny.
The other thing that he's just absurd is that she doesn't
recognise him, like, whoa, or anybody.
He was walking around the station, you know, like that.
No one recognises it.
I think like a soap opera, when people are recast, you just have
to go with it.
Yeah, well that's it.
But I mean, the fact is that, you know, everyone can just look
like everyone else that's completely well established.
We've seen it before, that we did 2nd skin, for God's sake.
So we know that it's possible.
Genesis, where people can be evolved into monsters and then be
back to normal.
And then be back next week.
By the... the last that break. implausible, you know?
But the fact, but again, it's very so proper-ish, isn't it?
that that can see that, you know, he has to be played, um, he has
to be played, uh, by Mark Elamo because that's who plays, you
can't.
But, you know, for you recognise his voice, you know.
There was a line earlier where I really wish they'd just added one
extra bit to it, which goes, you know, I can't keep pretending
these robes, you know, this office.
And what I wanted that to say was this shitty backdrop behind me
baiting.
Oh it's terrible, isn't it?
It is really bad.
And the weird thing is the lighting's good because you're going
throughout a single day in these sequences.
So the sunlight starts creeping in and going down and that's
really effective.
But that backdrop.
I mean, I have to say the paper on the book doesn't look like old
paper.
It looks like butcher's paper that they've kind of distressed.
Oh, dear.
But I think the idea is, obviously, her office is in some glorious
position in the mountains, isn't it?
you know, high up.
Yeah, I think it looks really good and I like the, I mean, I love
the establishing shots of Bajor.
I think they look really terrific.
See, like, none of the plots are moving, really, are they at the
moment?
We're sort of getting a hint that they're going to. with every
successive scene, but now we get another sitcom moment between
Cisco and Cassidy Yates.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. like they're fighting.
We go outside and don't actually hear, do we?
He starts.
Oh, it's so good this scene, isn't it?
Because he's pulled this shit before and she didn't know last
time.
She didn't find out.
We went off about it last time.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
She goes, oh, my shifts have been rerouted somewhere.
Sometimes he knows he's fancy that.
Who, yeah.
The thing is, I understand his motive, but the fact that he's
taking control from and the choice is entirely wrong.
And they've actually just calls him out on his bullshit, you
know?
It's really good I mean, I think they did this in strange
bedfallows as well, where, you know, what's his name?
Wharf's mate.
What's the Klingons name?
Why can't I remember?
Who, Martok?
Martin, thank you.
He has the same Cisco and he goes, you know, you may win the
battle, but she will always win the war.
And he's like, nah, we're never going to fight.
And then they have a secret where he's like, I really want you to
officiate. christening, you know, can you do that for me?
And she goes, no, I'm not going to stop.
I believe in the profits just because we got married.
I like that she knows her own mind and she's a strong character
but she's not like a federation character or a military officer or
anything like that.
Well, of course, you know, Penny Johnson goes on to be on the
Orville and is one of the best things about it.
Like she's a really, really excellent actor, I think.
I think we were, they wrote out Penny Johnson in series 4 because
she had other work to do.
She was always in work.
But she came to them.
Yeah, she because she was working for the marquee.
But she came back to them and she goes, look, when you're going to
write me back in, I love doing this.
You give me a sexy lead, Avery Brooks, so I can touch his head all
the time.
You know, like, give me more...
That's why she's always touching him, you know, because she loves
it.
Yeah, well, you would.
Look at him.
Nathan, why do you need to consult so many of these dark texts?
magic books.
My magic religious books.
Every interview she ever came about playing Kai Wynn.
She went, oh, my marvellous hat, my tea caddy.
That was on my head.
He goes, I'll say the lives as long as I'm wearing the hat.
It's so good.
It's great, isn't it?
Because she doesn't wear a space outfit, even though she's in a
science fiction show.
Like she wears a sort of kind of religious leader outfit, I
guess.
At least she doesn't wear that weird Sydney Opera house thing that
Kyo Parker wore.
It was very strange.
She, the thing about when and do kind of things like that.
Even people I know that don't like DS9, they love those characters
though.
Those characters almost transcend the show.
I love this.
I love that he brings her flowers and that he fixes it where he
fixes it.
And then she says that, you know, good for you for being man
enough to kind of apologise and recognise you were wrong.
It's good.
But yes, I think that's properly funny where he goes to the door
and says, oh, that'll be Quark with the necklace in case the
flowers didn't work.
I thought that was very cute.
Wait, this is as entrenched in the Dominion War as, say, like the
siege of AR 558 was.
Is this more palatable to you because of the soap elements?
Because, yeah.
Because it's fun.
Because it still isn't very Star Trek, is it?
None of that.
No.
There's no space problem.
There's no technobabble. not Well, the thing that Star Trek
doesn't, well, it sort of does, but modern Star Trek isn't quite
so much about there's evil enemy aliens out to defeat us.
Do you know what I mean?
Like it's about building coalitions and stuff, a federation, you
know.
Um, I don't know.
So decision they made in series 6, to have as many scenes behind
the enemy lines as you do with our heroes.
I'm such a savvy move.
So good.
Yeah.
So, so what I don't get.
So we've just discovered that we might lose the Chintaka system
which we saw them take in...
Yep.
Without those fatest weapons platforms.
Yes, that came alive at the right moment and defeated the
Federation fleet.
Oh, no.
They defeated them, didn't they?
that's right Yeah, but they were taken back in the beginning of
the next.
Yeah, they take it back to the beginning of the season.
That's the thing they do to honour Jadzia's memory. that right?
No, that's when they destroyed the shipyard. that's how much this
shows in blocks.
There's all these battles and things going on.
So this line, trouble in paradise, talking about the boys
relationship, the relationship between miles and trouble in
paradise.
What's this They've started making the perfect love affairs.
Do you not remember in Chimaera where Quark said to Odo, this is
no time for a changeling pride demonstration on the promenade.
We're at war to people, okay?
Wow, it's as close as they ever get.
Now we get to actually have it happen. a mild flirtation rather
than yeah.
Certainly the more we get later.
So again, this is banter, which would be just toe curlingly
embarrassing on board Voyager, but it's actually quite good here
because I think it's better written for a start.
And it proceeds from the characters who are more defined, you know
and better active.
But also, I like, I like how they're going from getting the shit
the shit ready for war. to having a conversation about Bashir and
O'Brien, and they keep coming back and forth.
So everyone's doing something to do with the plot or to do with
the ship and they're all given an opinion about this, you know
totally irrelevant.
Which is also a plot.
No, it's not.
We had a, we had a scene about it earlier on in Quarks. you know
it's one of the some plots.
I guess the best odds.
I love that one about the toys.
Like, she's the most fun of all.
I mean, now she's loosened up in 7 years.
Yeah.
So I want to ask you something because I can't remember.
How long does the Defiance stay exploded for next week?
No, it's 3 episodes time.
Right okay.
Just 3 episodes.
And it forces, because we haven't got the define anymore.
It forces us onto the Kira Cardassian resistance plot, which is
actually really, really interesting.
But yeah, it's such a shame, you know, that they felt the, I get
they wanted, well they wanted to reuse footage from previous
battles in the finale.
That's probably why they brought it back.
And it's kind of cute when they do.
Well, punch a soul bar. takes the books back. good for him I do
like this lighting in this scene, this sort of golden lighting.
I think Beijo is probably a very beautiful planet.
It's very yellow.
Yeah.
Somebody to look out the window and go, oh, isn't it gorgeous?
We're never going to see it, you know.
There he is.
Exercising his fist.
Now he comes in.
Watch him asleep.
Watch him as he approaches her now and goes...
Like a snake.
Yeah, there's just one weird moment there. weird moment where he
bares his teeth for a second.
It's very odd.
It's a great choice.
And that sort of subtle purring, you know?
There's work to be done, my love.
Oh, please don't have sex apparently.
I can't watch it.
No, well I did it.
They did it before the episode began fortunately.
Until Death Deal's part.
She's in her 90 and he just grabs hold of her in the room.
And thank God, we cut to an ad break.
I've never been more grateful for a fade out.
Yeah.
Yeah, we don't need to see any of that.
It's the same way that we're spared Miles and Keiko having sex as
well, I think.
So very tasteful.
Renee Echivaria says on the memory alpha.
This episode was a deliberate culmination of the 1st 4 episodes.
They wanted to leave, you know, and then start sort of the next
chapter off the final chapter when it rains.
So what we have now is 3 sort of definitive conclusions to the
Kaiwin, Dukat, the Chintaka system, and Damar, and his
revolution.
But then with lots of opportunities to go on and explore, you know
the developments here as well.
So the thing is that this, which is a scene where we're watching
Demar and Resot talking about what their plans are, we never see
the thing, obviously, because they can't afford to do it, but We
do actually, though, get to see a proper space battle action
sequence, which is pretty good.
Yeah, really good.
I think the final shot of the defiant coming into view and then
being torn apart.
Torn to peace pieces.
It's really good.
There's something I don't feel it myself, but there is something.
Star Trek fans that pour over technical manuals or things like
that.
They have an affinity with these starships and it is something
akin to loss of a character when you lose, you know, a famous
starship.
I think it's probably how people felt in search for Spock, you
know, when they...
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh no, that was a huge deal.
Don't you think?
Because they'd never brought the Enterprise back before.
Like, you know, we we used to being up to the Enterprise G or H or
whatever by now, but...
Well, they're doing in this episode for one. saying, don't get
comfortable, folks, because the breed have attacked Earth and
we've lost the stars before we go, you know, our warship.
Yeah. which will be back in 3 weeks.
And sort of the suggestion right up until the finale is actually
the Dominion could win this.
Yeah.
Well, we know that they won't, though, but they have to take it as
close. you know, about there being the next iteration of Star Trek
called Star Trek Dominion.
Set on Dominion Occupied Earth.
That would be good. do that.
No, they probably could pull it off either.
What sort of impressed me and frightened me a little bit about
this sequence was just how adept. they were at war at this point
you know?
Cisco, so casual about it.
Look how great when those ships, like the Gemitar ships get, again
they get torn apart as well and you see sort of struts and stuff
like that.
You you see the inside of them.
They're really detailed.
It's properly good.
Yeah, defined.
Let's say it's torpedoes like that.
It gets me a little bit hot, you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But this is great as well, aren't they?
What you have is every single character starts explaining how
every element of the ship is shutting down.
Stop working very quickly, you know?
And in the same time you got, obviously, consoles exploding.
The bastards console exploded.
He fell over very slowly to the ground.
In true melodramatic fashion.
Kira explodes in slow motion as she falls to the floor.
But, like, why does Julian have a have a station on the previous
cheese?
Just in case lines to deliver.
I love that too, where the torpedo just grazes the top of the
defiant.
Like you actually get to see the sort of damage it does.
It's really good.
That's a great battle.
These sets, they blow the shit out of these sets, don't they?
They're slightly different.
They change the carpet because they mention it.
Yes, that's right.
The carpet.
And I did, I did like the bit as, well, he says, abandoned ship
and everyone looks at him like, for real?
Yeah, there he is.
He's doing it now Yep, that's him doing it now.
What I really liked was when he just turned around to look at the
bridge last time before he went on, as if he was saying goodbye to
an old friend, you know?
Yeah.
I mean, that's a sort of standard Star Trek thing, isn't it?
At this point.
And in a way, this, like, the defiant is cheating a little bit, I
always thought, it's kind of like, well, you know, yes, it's set
on a station, but we kind of also want, you know, the runabouts
are shit.
And it's so cool, Nathan.
Yeah, it's cool.
Yeah, yeah.
It is pretty good.
Yeah, did you see the state of it there?
Oh, this shot now.
So the escape pods come out.
We follow the escape pod to the battle where there's a ton of
ships.
Like that warbird all blown up and there's the defiant drifts into
Sean before getting hit and just exploding.
That's it.
Yeah, it's really good, isn't it?
Trust way Captain Cisco.
I believe he was quite fond of that ship.
It's so good.
The only pair I was like, really, was when she goes, you know, no
let the escape pots go.
They're full of frightened demoralised troops.
I reckon she's sold it.
It's such bullshit and they didn't need to say anything.
And I actually think that that works as a character beat because
like her, she wants the Federation demoralised.
I didn't, you know, it's obviously we're not going to blow up the
things, but we didn't have to mention it.
We could have just glossed over it and just assumed that once
you're in the escape pods you escape.
Come the finale, she has become the best villain of the show and
she gets lines like, I want the Kardassians exterminated.
All of them, the entire population.
You know, she's a mad destiny.
She's she's holding on too long.
Like it's been, is that her thing?
Why is she all?
why is her face all peeling off?
So that's a big plot in the final.
No, no, no.
That's section 31.
When Odo...
Yeah.
When Odo went to the Earth in season four, they infected him
section 31, So this all sort of reconed.
And then he linked with her at the end of season 4 when they took
his hours away.
It's been a slow burn since then and it started coming out.
And Amanda Plummer comes back to take revenge on like for that.
And there's a wonderful sequence in the 2nd to last episode where
Odo says, you know, it's funny how the Federation will condemn the
Dominion for doing all these terrible things and what they've
done.
They've tried to commit genocide.
Yeah.
It's, you know.
It's really interesting stuff happening.
Yeah.
And it's like you said, they're looking at the old plots and going
well, you know, how can we add layers to this?
You know, we had him go to earth.
Let's do something with that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. right.
It's just so clever.
And it's exactly what Ron Moore does in Battlestar Galactica as
well, because we got to hear that creative process as...
This might be my favourite scene in the whole episode.
He lied to you. used you.
It can't be.
It's so cheesy.
Look at him.
Kywin, it's Ducant.
Haven't you been watching the show?
He doesn't understand the love of the par rapes.
So I really, I like this too.
So he's pretending to be someone that actually Ducart had killed
like he was a Bajoran prisoner, and Ducart was responsible for his
death, and then he comes back.
Do you know how he was?
Yeah, by telling that story.
Yeah, the...
No, there was a 100 people that she saved from being executed by
sleeping with a Cardassian and he's pretending to be that person.
Right, right.
And I love that.
He dies right in front of the camera, doesn't he?
really good, isn't it?
And I love that too.
This could just be, like, this is the bit where she's on the knife
edge.
She still feels guilt.
She still thinks that she's been manipulated into doing something
really bad and this is the end for her and he manages to bring it
round.
It's really good.
Oh, it's the book, isn't it?
Yeah, the blood going on the boat. so cheesy.
It's absurd, isn't it?
It's wonderful.
The magic book.
It's like reveals the power they're offering you.
And do you remember where this goes?
Where, you know, she's the only one that's allowed to read that
book.
She's the only one that's got access to it.
Dukat tries to read it in the next episode and the bolt comes out
of the book and blinds him.
And then she sends him out on the streets as a blind beggar.
I'm sure the Bajorans will elicit sympathy.
Be kind.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, it's not subtle, but it is fun.
She's really selling it too.
Is she great?
She's so, look, both of them.
They're absolutely killing it.
It's so fun.
It's when she goes, what about soulborn?
He's like, I'll take care of the body.
And then she's just so gently not.
She nods.
It's terrific, isn't it?
That's really good.
And then her 1st scene in the next episode is her going, it's so
unlike Sobor to go missing like this.
Please.
All the resources into finding him.
She's such a bitch.
Now, he's Barry Jesus Christ, he's terrible.
You know what?
They get a joke out of him in the next one.
They're doing the Klingon ceremony and Cisco goes, you know, oh
they're all cutting their hands.
And Barry Jenner goes, oh, you're joking.
And then they go...
I love this.
And it's because he's not Ducart.
There's something a little bit awkward about the speech.
Yeah, yeah.
But he's good.
He's got a great voice as well.
I think, so this is where we end, isn't it?
We end on this speech and the reaction to this speech.
We begin with the destruction of Earth.
She's so beautiful.
Look at her. gorgeous.
That's all she's thinking of.
You want to know what she's thinking of?
Actually, you find out what she's thinking in the next couple
weeks.
This is going to be one hell of a gorgeous close-up is what she's
thinking.
Sounds Renee, though, as the camera lingers on his body.
Yep.
Yeah, so this is where it ends because, of course, the big thing
is in DeepSace 9, despite all of the character stuff, which was
great, just as important is the shifting kind of status quo of the
Alpha Quadrant, which is the Sandbox, the Deep Space 9 uniquely
gets to play in.
It's so good.
Big thing in the 1st couple of episodes.
Sorry, 1st couple of seasons was that the Bajorans were occupied
they're now not and we're dealing with that.
And now we've come full circle.
And we've watched the Kardashians go from, you know, meteoric
success in the quadrant and now down really low again and now
they're fighting for their free days.
Great stuff.
And and demand nails to the very end of that speech.
And Casey, like Casey Biggs is almost tearing up.
It's such, you know, just proper oratory.
He really sells it.
It's a great thing to...
Soon.
That's all he's thinking of.
I could be the last Weyune.
That's why you picked that target.
Does he not like me or something?
I said to you.
It's like they've had it off together once and to Mars now
determined to bring him down because Wayne's cast him aside.
I thought we were friends.
And this very subtle shot of way you're looking at the Kardashian
over his shoulder. makes me die. better watch my back.
It's great, isn't it?
I know, I love how we end as well with one of those very dramatics
and you know, Legga Demar could be the key to saving the alpha
quadrants.
Okay.
And this is where we lead into the next thing.
So we've had a 2 tremendous losses and then we get hope at the
end.
So I think it works as an individual episode because it has a
shape and it brings important plots forward.
But I guess the episodes on either side of it are roughly similar
feeling as well because we are just... don't quite have the sort
of triple whammy here at the end.
You know, they are more sort of, they just sort of stop.
It's the story continuing and they just sort of stop.
This feels like a conclusion.
And then we pick up a whole bunch of new plots in the next one.
Kira going off, the section 31 plot, all of that, you know.
There's even time, you know, to turn Roman to the new Grand Nagus
in those last few episodes.
Yes, of course, that had to be done.
And knock into a lieutenant as well.
There's one person we didn't mention throughout the entire episode
and I would like to, because it's his last contribution to D-space
9.
And that's Jay Chataway.
And I thought he did really great music, especially during the
battle.
You know, he puts a bit of bombast into 90s trek where there
really is none whatsoever.
I just remember when he started appearing on Star Trek the Next
Generation and just how beautiful some of his scores were.
He's really properly good and we make a lot of fun of Star Trek
music and it is a bit crappy in the 90s. should we say some?
Well, yeah, you know, here's the ad break.
But Jay Chataway is, I think, maybe the best one, the best
composer they had.
So does he continue?
Will he be in Voyager and...
I think he, I think he does, Voyager.
Yeah.
But this was just his last DS 9.
And what's wonderful is his music for the Chintaka Battle sequence
on this is on the Star Trek D Space 9 album.
And I know you're going to be rushing out to buy that.
I've got it, of course.
At the end of the track.
It's the recording, the live recording.
He turns around to the orchestra and says, thank you very much
amazing work.
I've had so much fun working on this show.
Yeah.
Wow.
That's awesome.
It's a nice touch.
I mean I can't really find much to complain in that at all.
You know, it's good characters.
There's interesting things going on.
It's funny.
It's absurd.
It's everything we love.
It's absolutely perfect.
I think it is really great.
It's very un Star Trek like, but this is a different thing that we
discover Star Trek can be, like giant, weird political space
battle things intermixed with, you know, who is going to be Asry's
next boyfriend and stuff.
I think all of that stuff is exactly what I want from a show like
this and I think it was a pretty great episode.
What I think those 10 episodes do.
It's basically DS9 in a microcosm.
I said to you, I think the show gets better and better as it goes
along.
Those episodes keep building, you know, and you get a big hitter
here with change of face of evil.
You get an even bigger hitter with tacking into the wind.
I think that's probably the best of the last 10.
But then I do think the finale, perhaps Milus the par rave stuff
is a stonkingly good conclusion.
It's almost got an impossible task to try and wrap up all of these
plot threads, all of these characters.
And for the most part, it does succeed at doing that.
So, we've reached the end of the episode, and now it's time for us
to decide what we're going to watch next week, and it's my go on
the randomiser, and I've done a little bit of statistical work
during the day, and I've got the website bill process to calculate
the percentage of episodes that we have done.
It is.
Just divining a few numbers together.
It's all fine.
But it turns out that the most underserved series is the animated
series where we've done one out of 22 episodes.
The reason for that.
Yeah, there is a reason for that.
And then the one that we've done the most of is Strange New Worlds
because we've done 3 episodes of series one of that, which is a
series of 10, and we're currently halfway through series 2.
I was going to do Strange New Wells next week, you know.
I don't care what you say, the percentages.
I'm still going to do it.
But actually, now I've seen the numbers. think I'll rethink it.
Well, run out of Strangely Worlds.
That'd be the sad thing.
It's been really fun too.
So I'm on the randomiser and I've just got the animated series
selected.
Now, the problem is that neither of us knows anything about this.
The good thing is they're only about 20 minutes long.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But we have to do it.
We have to do it sometime and we've clearly been avoiding it.
The last time we did it, well, the only time we did it, and it was
considered a really good one.
That was trap. appalling.
That lady had no nose.
Oh yeah.
Weird.
That weird group of aliens around that table. terrible in the game
Klingons.
You remember Spock running through the ship trying to find the
ejection hatch?
to put the bomb in.
That's right injection hatch. the ejection hatch.
All right.
So more of this stuff.
I'm going to press the button.
And your random Star Trek, the animated series episode is
Albatross.
Series two, episode four.
I have literally no idea what that is.
How do we decide?
I'll tell you what I'm gonna do.
I'm going to go on to Jammer's reviews and select the animated
series just so we've got a little summary of what the episode is
about.
So what was that called again?
Albatross.
And oh, that's right near the end.
Yep.
McCoy is arrested by an alien government and accused of causing a
deadly plague during a visit nearly 2 decades earlier.
Does he stab anyone?
I mean, jam has given it 2.5 stars out of four.
I don't have any...
It's worth it.
It could be anything.
Well, I'm gonna give it another go.
Yeah, why not?
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
I've heard of this one Series one, episode 15 The Eye of the
Beholder.
The Enterprise investigates the mysterious disappearance of a
science team on a mysterious world.
Is the word mysterious used twice in that summary?
No, I just used it once.
Oh, okay.
It's just once.
Okay. a bit disappointing.
Two stars by Gemma.
Again, it could be anything.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Spock and the script go to great lengths to explain how advanced
and superintelligent these aliens are.
Pressing once more.
Come on.
That sounds like any random Star Trek episode that, doesn't it?
Okay, this is the one we're definitely doing.
So this is Bem.
And it's series 2, episode two.
And you remember that we had that episode of Lower Decks.
I excretus, where the alien came on. that could disembody
himself.
There was a lady.
No, it was a lady and she had a detachable head and detachable
other beards.
And she was brought back, obviously, by the lower decks people who
like to make fun of our ridiculous Star Trek ears.
And I have actually seen this one.
No, it's terrible.
They're all terrible.
But I've watched this one as research when we did an eye excretus
so I have actually seen this.
Can I read you the summary of this one, right?
This literally could be any Star Trek episode.
Any Star Trek episode?
The Enterprise takes on an independent observer from an alien
world who insists on accompanying the landing party on a research
mission of a primitive alien civilisation.
Yep.
We've seen that in every iteration of Star Trek.
So now we're going to see a really bad iteration of it.
So it's bam.
I want to know if William Shatner's still literally phoning in his
performance as Captain Kirk.
I'm sure he is, from the green room of something else completely.
And those fantastic sort of off kilter angle close-ups that they
do, just so they don't have to animate anything else on the
screen.
Yeah.
All right.
I think we're ready to go. do you think?
Oh, it's going to be a giggle.
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley.
We're online at untitled Star Trekproject.com, where you can find
links to our Twitter, Mastodon, Facebook, and YouTube channel.
Our podcast artworkers by Kayla Sizeran, and the theme was
composed by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 11th of July 2023 and released on
the 14th of July.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek, the animated series M. We
just laughed all the way through.
It's so much fun.
It's so good.
He listens to our DS9 episodes, you know, he absolutely loves
them.
You see?
The only Star Trek you really like.
You don't really like much of the rest.
But I think that, I mean, that was perfect.
I mean, you know, like, again, it's not a thing that other Star
Trek can do.
It's not anything that anyone attempts, but geez, it's fun.
And it is that sort of thing.
We have enough characters to do a proper full scale daytime soap
opera.
And that's how we can present like in that kind of mode in that
genre.
We're going to massively change the status quo, because we've got
this big thing that's happening that we have to bring to an end.
And either what we do is what's impossible, you know, we do a
Damar episode, we do a, a Kai-win episode, we do, you know, a
Gower on episode and so on.
They can't do that.
Um, because deep space 9 episodes happen one after the other, you
know, like they couldn't do different events from different points
of view.
And you have to have everyone being given a go, like all of the
main characters.
So I just think it has to be done. them all together.
It means structurally. so much more interesting to talk about.
Yeah, because it's, yeah, yeah, because it's like, but it's
exactly what like last night's home and away, dude, as well.
Like, that I was sat on the couch watching with Calvin, you know
that now we're going to do the band plot and now we're going to do
the kid plot and, you know, like all of that.
It's a soap bonus.
It's a soap.
Yeah, soaps are great though.
Good soap.
With really good actors.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But that's the thing.
And it is Louise Lecher in a daytime soap popper up where she gets
to stab someone.
As you keep saying to me, Oscar winner, Louise Fletcher.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. holy shit.
Well, she, like, that thing about her being untouchable that I
said, like, that's what Nurse Ratchet is like.
Do you know what I mean?
Like Nurse Ratchet, like you hate her.
She's horrible.
She's really super evil and she's absolutely... can touch her.
And so this is the perfect character for the religious leader
because she still, you know, does the sort of superficial looking
caring and, you know, mild and, you know, she doesn't get angry
and public and any of those sorts of things.
You know, everything's very bland and she's very pious and stuff
but she's like super, super evil and you hate her and nothing bad
ever happens to her.
And, uh, so I'm moaning to you recently.
I was like, we've not done anything with Kai winning it yet.
She's so great whenever she appears.
See, I just assumed that we had because we did that in the cards
episode that, um, and it is, it's the four, you know.
It's Win, Dukart, Wei Yun, Garak.
I'm just guaranteed a good time.
Yeah, the episode is.
Yeah, they're all good, aren't they, Garrick, in that one?
Yeah, no, no, he gets loads coming up, though.
Okay.
Cool.
All right.
Okay, so I've got to...
I've got to go somewhere, have I?
No, go.
I've just sent you something in the Facebook chat.
Oh, wow, is this the percentage of episodes that we've done of the
respective shows?
Yeah, it's the most sense.
Strange new worlds.
20%.
That's only if we count this week's episode because this week, the
one that screened like screens on Thursday, which is the day
before we release this.
That makes it 15.
So we've done 20%. coming in as the tag, Nathan.
I would like to let everybody know that you could listen to us for
3 days, 12 hours, 37 minutes, and 6.623 seconds.
Not counting the episode you're listening to now.
Even more of us.
Yeah.
What's the 2nd nice?
Let's have a look here.
So the 2nd half...
I thought it would be DS 9.
It's not. lower decks.
Is it?
Yeah.
No, lower decks is the next one.
I think.
Where's Zardex coming?
Lodex is 16.67%.
Then it's prodigy, which is only, well, there's only one season of
that.
Yeah, 20 episodes, so 1912 parter.
So we've done 15%.
But the 2 lowest ones are the animated series at 4.55%, because
we've done one out of 22 episodes, and Star Trek, the Next
Generation.
So roughly, we're looking at 10% overall, I think, probably
roughly Star Trek.
I feel like we've talked about loads of TNG.
How unusual?
Yeah, we've only done 12, but we've done 18 Deep Space 9.
And of the 12.
This is really good.
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
I can't keep having episodes where I'm saying everything is shit.
Every now and again, I've got to say...
Yeah, we're going to have like, why are we doing a Star Trek
thing?
So in order to solve the Star Trek is a really good problem, we're
going to do, I'll tell you.
So we've reached the end of the episode and now it's time for us
to decide what we're going to watch next week.