WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 21:44:39

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, we are right at the end of Deep Space 9 this week.

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We're in the final 10 episode run that Vic Fontaine was singing

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about with Ben Sisco just a few episodes earlier.

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So this is the changing face of evil, and I want to say it's like

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episode 20 or something of series 7.

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The whole sort of last 10 episodes was advertised as the final

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chapter.

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Big Space and I, the final chapter.

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Um, yeah, and change phase.

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I think it is the 20th, yeah.

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Yeah.

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And what do you think?

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Oh, what do I think?

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Come on.

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People at home want to know.

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I think that they played season 7. brilliantly.

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I do think there are some weaknesses in the 1st half of season

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seven.

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You've got stuff like Prodigal Daughter, the Emperor's new cloak

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that weird one where the genetic mutant comes along and Bashir

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tries to seduce her, despite the fact that he's her doctor and

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she's his patient.

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But it does also have, you know, we did image in the sand and

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shout out some symbols, take me out to the hollow suite, had a

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being better bang.

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But it is essentially sort of marking time because they know that

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they're going to do this whopping gray arc at the end of the

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series.

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And what's been interesting is I watched this, adored it, of

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course I did.

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Then I went back and watched the 3 episodes that led up to this

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and now I'm watching the episodes that follow on from this.

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Because this is terrific stuff, I think.

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I think back in the day, I was convinced this was like hard

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science fiction, you know, like very serious Star Trek, you know

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on a war footing and due to many conversations with you.

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Now I'm aware this is just an enormous soap opera.

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And I just have a huge taste for soap opera.

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I thought it was just magnificent and it was precisely because it

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was soap opera.

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And I think we did an episode of Discovery a while back, right?

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And it was part of the Mirror Universe arc, which is about 5

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episodes long, and it was like the worst episode of the Mirror

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Universe.

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Yeah, yeah, not bad.

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No, no, but just everyone's plot is inched along just sort of

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slightly and nothing very big happens and so it ends up being sort

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of fairly disposable.

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Here, it's the opposite, where you have several really kind of

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massive events. happen.

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Like pretty seriously massive events.

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But the plots just sort of keep being inched along and stuff.

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And I have a theory about what happens, right?

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Or why this happens.

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And I think what it is.

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They've got a lot of threads that they want to close.

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They've got a lot of characters that they want to do the right

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thing by.

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But because contractually they're kind of obliged to have everyone

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in every episode, they can't do the Ducart Kai-win episode, they

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can't do the DeMar episode.

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So what they have to do instead is just serialise all of them all

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the way through. so that everyone gets a go all the time.

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You know, the doctor is bizarrely on board the Defiant for this

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big battle, for instance, for no other reason, except that he has

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a plot that needs to keep going.

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I mean he often is.

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It's worth remembering every time they go off in the defiant, he's

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there.

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Just in case there's a casualty, you know. right.

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That's Okawa's sisters back at the station, you know, looking

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after it.

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Okay.

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The infirmary.

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But the soap opera thing is so much fun.

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I mean, it's so enjoyable.

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Well, can I give you a quote from Ira Stephen Bear?

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There's something to say about this as well.

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Okay.

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He says he was a big fan of how this episode mixes the larger war

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stories with the trivial domestic stories.

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So he says, we like the idea of showing the domestic life.

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In the midst of all the pressures that Cisco is under.

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He still has issues at home.

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He's still a human being.

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Cassidy still burns his peppers and that hurts.

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Life is hard.

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You should not have your peppers burnt under any circumstances.

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No, you mean something else.

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But that subplot is great.

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The Cassidy Ben subplot, it builds upon something that we've

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already seen before, and then the other subplot, which is like

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Miles and Julian, and war.

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Something going on there, right?

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Yeah, and Wharf and Esri as well.

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Like, that's really great.

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It's not massive.

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You know, it doesn't take up a lot of time, but it's really

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enjoyable and it's what we want.

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Like, I don't think we want just endless space battles and war and

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seriousness and stuff because that's not what the show has been

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for 7 years.

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The show has been about these characters that we really like, that

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we know well, that work well in various sort of groupings and

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stuff.

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And we want to see stuff happening to them, not just stuff

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happening.

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And so I think it's terrific.

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What's astonishing is how much ground they cover in these 10

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episodes.

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And I did sort of read an interview where they said they really

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wanted to do it over a season, but that was just never going to

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happen.

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I think for them to get 10 episodes.

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At this point is a miracle.

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But like, you know, so far in this 10 episode arc.

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You've had the whole Ezri goes looking for wharf and they've had a

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bit of a fling and then decided for a series of fabulous sitcom

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moments where he, you know, points out she's the biggest slut of

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Deep Space 9. that they're not going to be in a relationship and

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they're actually going to be friends.

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You've had Kai Wynn coming to the station to officiate Cisco's

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wedding because perhaps he thought she wasn't available.

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Um, and um, you know, being surgically ordered in fabulous soap

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opera fashion and seducing her.

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And that's done over a couple of episodes.

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And then in the same breath, you've got Demar sick of Weyune

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constantly niggling out here and realising he's actually a 2nd

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class citizen on his own planet and they're being totally

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manipulated and used as cannon fodder, giving up the booze.

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That's a very important moment in a couple of episodes before this

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where he throws the canara, the mirror, and decides to turn a

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corner.

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That's bubbling along.

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Cisco got married to Cassidy in the last couple of episodes.

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That's bubbling a lot.

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And you're right, all of these plots are inching along.

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None of it feels rushed, I don't think.

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No.

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And the best part of all is all of it is being buoyed by just this

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phenomenal cast that they've assembled.

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So the acting is amazing in these 10 episodes.

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So it means if it's when you hit with, you know, the change of

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face of evil, it sort of plays like day in the life of all these

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people for about 30 minutes, with things sort of inching along and

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a bit of suspense and things like that.

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But then in the last 10 minutes, it's like, we're going to destroy

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the defiant winds finally going over to the dark side for good and

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demand defecting from the Dominion.

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And because we understand the characters, because we're so

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invested in the characters.

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It's their reactions to those events that gives you the chills in

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those moments that really makes those moments impact.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I think that that's, you know, why it ends in a surprising place, I

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think, for an episode that has an attack on Earth, for an episode

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that has the destruction of the defiant.

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It actually ends in a different place from what you expect, and I

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think that's a good choice.

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I have to say though, that I don't think that this version of the

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show would have worked for much longer than this.

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I think it is a thing that you can do in the lead up to the end

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but I think you still do for Star Trek need to tune in for a

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particular thing to happen.

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So the kind of serialisation that, say, discovery does, which is

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each episode coheres around an idea, and it's the same people then

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experiencing the next step on.

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They're all linked, but they are single individual episodes.

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Certainly that's how Discovery Series 3 and 4 worked at least.

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That's not what we have here.

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That's the sort of serialisation.

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I think that's introduced by enterprise in series 3 and four, for

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instance.

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I think it's worth remembering with this. you know, we're building

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up to the end of the series.

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So they can afford to be as bold as they want exactly.

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And, you know, this is exactly the same point in DS9 that Genesis

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was in the next generation.

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And they are like chalk and cheese in terms of substance and

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content.

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Now, I'm not going to say which one's better.

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Oh, you know which one, I think it's better, but this is where

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Star Trek's come along since, you know, season 7 of the next

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generation.

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Actually, I don't know if you watched the what they left behind

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DS9 documentary.

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No, but I should.

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I really should.

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It's it's got some great trivia in there.

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But they get all the writers together for one day.

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They've all got busy lives now.

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You know, Ron Moore went off and did Battle Cycle out to get RS

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Stephen Beers done a ton of shows.

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Like they're all really, you know, they're doing work.

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And they all come together in the old writer's room where they

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wrote DS9 on the whiteboard that they use.

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It's still there and they pitch season eight, episode one.

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And you can see how they were sort, like, we've said before, how

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they're literally making it up and going, oh, my God, wouldn't it

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be cool with, oh, and do you remember when we did that?

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So let's lead that to this.

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And so you actually get an insight into how they were creating

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this at the time.

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They don't just do the same thing.

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You're right.

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Like, this would have come to a conclusion here.

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And I think if there was a serious eight.

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They weren't obvious to keep going doing the same thing.

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They would have gone off in another direction and done something

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really exciting.

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Yeah.

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Because this is the one Star Trek maybe apart from the big change

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between Discovery series 2 and series 3 that fundamentally changes

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its premise.

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But unlike Discovery, it does it over and over again.

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Nearly every season the premise changes.

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And I think that's amazingly interesting.

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And so it's the one that's allowed to do a big soap opera in the

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lead up to the end of it because it is going to create a whole new

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status quo for the end.

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When you've got Louise Fletcher, saying these soap opera lines and

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Mark Alamo and people, and then our visitor going, you know, that's

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what happens when you share your toys.

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So cute.

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Oh, that's glorious.

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And Penny Johnson.

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So great.

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So superb.

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I just wanted to say to you, Nathan.

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I'm going to go speak to your boss and say, please don't turn my

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husband on any more dangerous missions.

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Just as that hits as well.

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Oh, it's great.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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She's really good Yeah, and you know, what a savviest moves they

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did in the last season.

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They've highlighted the regulars for 6 years previous to this.

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They chose to pit select several of the secondary cars.

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Cassidy gets a ton of material in seven.

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DeMar does, Wayoon does, Kai Wynn and Ducat.

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You know, they've sort of cherry picked, one of our best secondary

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characters, and let's just give them some great material.

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Yeah, no, I think they've done a really, really good job and this

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is a really fun hour of TV, I reckon.

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Whatever you and me talk about a Star Trek soap, it's just the

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best thing ever.

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So that's going to have some fun.

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All right.

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Okay.

252
00:11:56.879 --> 00:11:58.379
Well, I will count us in.

253
00:11:58.500 --> 00:12:06.179
Let's go 5, 4, 3, 2, one, and we're off.

254
00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:11.039
Really, not a typical Star Trek episode because we're picking up

255
00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:13.500
without a previously on.

256
00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:13.860
Yeah.

257
00:12:13.860 --> 00:12:16.200
They're arriving back on the station because they've been away for

258
00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:16.740
3 episodes.

259
00:12:16.799 --> 00:12:21.480
This is very much a previously on because they're all explaining

260
00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:25.799
things to each other. you know, this is sort of classic exposition

261
00:12:25.799 --> 00:12:26.159
scene.

262
00:12:26.220 --> 00:12:28.740
They manage to crack a joke about Morn.

263
00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:29.340
You know?

264
00:12:30.179 --> 00:12:31.259
Yeah.

265
00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:35.460
I do feel like the banter, the dialogue in this episode. they kind

266
00:12:35.460 --> 00:12:36.960
of they're getting there.

267
00:12:37.019 --> 00:12:38.159
If they're not completely there.

268
00:12:38.220 --> 00:12:40.740
No, they're very fun.

269
00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:44.399
And Ezrie, doesn't Ezrie just feel like she just fits in now?

270
00:12:44.460 --> 00:12:45.659
Yeah, yeah.

271
00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:47.399
She's so cute.

272
00:12:47.460 --> 00:12:48.360
She's adorable.

273
00:12:48.419 --> 00:12:50.279
I said this before, but I think she is adorable.

274
00:12:50.340 --> 00:12:54.720
And I love how he, you know, isn't cross.

275
00:12:54.779 --> 00:12:59.159
He calls her old man immediately rather than rousing on her for

276
00:12:59.159 --> 00:13:02.700
sort of leaving without permission sort of thing.

277
00:13:02.759 --> 00:13:09.000
It's, it's, again, I found that this actually helped me get into

278
00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:12.000
sort of position to find out where they were.

279
00:13:12.059 --> 00:13:13.200
This actually worked.

280
00:13:13.259 --> 00:13:16.139
It did the job because I hadn't watched the previous episode for a

281
00:13:16.139 --> 00:13:16.379
while.

282
00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:17.519
This got me in there.

283
00:13:17.580 --> 00:13:20.039
I think it does quite a good job and it's reasonably entertaining

284
00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:20.460
you know.

285
00:13:21.059 --> 00:13:23.460
Well, they've gone down this route because all the other episodes

286
00:13:23.460 --> 00:13:27.840
of these 10 have a previously on, which tells you exactly where

287
00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:28.320
they've been.

288
00:13:28.379 --> 00:13:31.139
So just for one episode, they've decided to have this scene at the

289
00:13:31.139 --> 00:13:31.379
beginning.

290
00:13:31.679 --> 00:13:35.039
Oh, look, here's Bashir, given her moon eyes.

291
00:13:35.100 --> 00:13:36.419
Yeah, so...

292
00:13:36.419 --> 00:13:37.679
Oh, for a plot number one.

293
00:13:37.740 --> 00:13:41.039
Well, I actually really like this.

294
00:13:41.100 --> 00:13:44.279
So Wharf is having to be a grown-up now.

295
00:13:44.340 --> 00:13:46.500
You know, Jed Z is gone.

296
00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:49.980
Here Nazri have had a thing, but I've decided it doesn't work.

297
00:13:50.039 --> 00:13:55.200
And so he is a confidant, isn't he?

298
00:13:55.259 --> 00:13:56.340
Her confidante.

299
00:13:56.879 --> 00:13:58.799
I'm discussing...

300
00:13:58.860 --> 00:14:00.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

301
00:14:00.059 --> 00:14:03.299
And I think that works really well for Worf, too, because he gets

302
00:14:03.299 --> 00:14:06.480
to be sort of slightly snarky and stuff.

303
00:14:06.539 --> 00:14:07.320
He's really fun.

304
00:14:07.379 --> 00:14:08.940
He plays with toys.

305
00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:11.039
Yeah, yeah. over and over again.

306
00:14:11.100 --> 00:14:14.279
Well, you've got to remember is, Do you know how the, do you

307
00:14:14.279 --> 00:14:17.279
remember how the, the Ezri Bashir, you know, the fact that she's

308
00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:20.759
got feelings for him was revealed. is the most soap opera thing

309
00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:21.419
they ever did.

310
00:14:21.480 --> 00:14:25.440
So she's been tortured by the Breen energy weapons, yeah?

311
00:14:25.500 --> 00:14:30.000
So she's in a sort of day state on the bed and she's going, oh, no

312
00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:30.600
no.

313
00:14:30.659 --> 00:14:32.519
Kiss me, Julian.

314
00:14:32.580 --> 00:14:34.919
It's an exposition coma.

315
00:14:35.399 --> 00:14:39.779
And they're the close-up on wharf, looking absolutely horrified

316
00:14:39.779 --> 00:14:40.860
because I just had sex.

317
00:14:40.919 --> 00:14:43.320
Oh my god, it's so funny.

318
00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:44.820
Oh, God.

319
00:14:44.820 --> 00:14:47.700
And then he gets to those wonderful lines where he goes, you know

320
00:14:47.700 --> 00:14:50.340
considering how many men you have slept with.

321
00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:51.659
That is quite a statement.

322
00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:56.279
I think he's great when he's a bit of a bitch, you know, wolf.

323
00:14:56.340 --> 00:14:58.799
Yeah, yeah. they're just writing funny. you know?

324
00:14:58.860 --> 00:14:59.220
Yeah.

325
00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:01.799
Yeah, it's funny, isn't it?

326
00:15:01.860 --> 00:15:04.679
Because that character had a completely different role, the being

327
00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:08.279
wrong role on Star Trek, the Next Generation, as I've observed.

328
00:15:08.340 --> 00:15:12.480
But here he's just part of the ensemble and he gets to be funny.

329
00:15:12.539 --> 00:15:16.320
I don't know if you remember, but in 2 episodes time, is when

330
00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:20.220
Gowron comes along, takes away command from Martok and starts

331
00:15:20.220 --> 00:15:24.179
fucking up the war completely, sending out the...

332
00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:28.019
Yeah, and then Edgerie sits wharf down and says, do you know

333
00:15:28.019 --> 00:15:28.259
what?

334
00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:32.220
I think the going on Empire is on the verge of extinction and I

335
00:15:32.220 --> 00:15:33.659
think it deserves to die.

336
00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:35.159
It doesn't work here anymore.

337
00:15:35.220 --> 00:15:39.299
And, you know, to say that to Warf, who's initially horrified and

338
00:15:39.299 --> 00:15:41.639
then acknowledges that she's right and then goes and does

339
00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:44.039
something about it, even murders Garon in the moment.

340
00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:45.480
I think on way possible.

341
00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:50.039
But that relationship, it's really, it's wreaking like rewards

342
00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:50.399
now.

343
00:15:50.700 --> 00:15:55.259
So we heard about the attack.

344
00:15:55.320 --> 00:15:56.879
That was how we went into the credits.

345
00:15:56.940 --> 00:16:01.019
So we, that entire pre-credit sequence was just a conversation in

346
00:16:01.019 --> 00:16:04.080
one of the corridors, the space corridors.

347
00:16:04.139 --> 00:16:05.759
And then we hear about the attack on Earth.

348
00:16:05.820 --> 00:16:08.399
We come and we see the attack on Earth on their tiny screen.

349
00:16:08.460 --> 00:16:10.259
That's about...

350
00:16:10.259 --> 00:16:12.899
CGI is not fisticated enough. how much we need to see.

351
00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:14.460
We don't need any more than that.

352
00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:15.840
Look, it was okay.

353
00:16:15.899 --> 00:16:16.620
It's not bad.

354
00:16:16.679 --> 00:16:19.559
You've got like lots of people running around Starfleet

355
00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:20.519
headquarters in a panic.

356
00:16:21.419 --> 00:16:22.500
Yeah, yeah, it's not too bad.

357
00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:25.919
But it's made the point, isn't it, is that they basically made a

358
00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:29.279
massive, you know, the Earth's always considered like, you know

359
00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:31.080
the beacon of hope for the Federation.

360
00:16:31.860 --> 00:16:33.600
Yeah, yeah.

361
00:16:33.659 --> 00:16:34.440
Yeah.

362
00:16:34.500 --> 00:16:34.980
Yeah.

363
00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:37.679
And because it's sort of central, it's not on the outskirts.

364
00:16:37.740 --> 00:16:39.419
It's not on a border, you know.

365
00:16:39.480 --> 00:16:41.460
Um, yeah.

366
00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:42.059
Yeah.

367
00:16:42.179 --> 00:16:43.740
But you know what?

368
00:16:43.799 --> 00:16:45.539
I do have one complaint about this episode.

369
00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:48.000
And I always really like Avery Brooks.

370
00:16:48.059 --> 00:16:51.840
I thought he was very underplayed throughout this entire episode.

371
00:16:51.899 --> 00:16:55.379
He's doing that sort of soft menacing purr throughout.

372
00:16:57.179 --> 00:16:58.980
Oh, no.

373
00:16:58.980 --> 00:17:00.059
The brain.

374
00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:05.400
So I think at this point in the series, they've decided that they

375
00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:09.359
need the brain and the brain are good and are a good addition, but

376
00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:13.619
they don't want to add any new characters and possibly they don't

377
00:17:13.619 --> 00:17:15.299
want to pay any additional actors.

378
00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:19.259
And so the brain can just be people standing around in suits

379
00:17:19.259 --> 00:17:23.099
making that sort of weird electronic thing, which, you know

380
00:17:23.099 --> 00:17:24.599
they're weird and inscrutable.

381
00:17:24.660 --> 00:17:29.640
We never see their faces and stuff, but it is a budgetary issue as

382
00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:30.000
well.

383
00:17:30.059 --> 00:17:32.819
I love in a strange bedfellows.

384
00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:36.119
So that's too previous to this when, you know, that's exposed to

385
00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:36.960
breed dominionized.

386
00:17:37.019 --> 00:17:39.839
There's a scene that starts with the breeding game, blah, blah, you

387
00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:40.920
know, that weird burly noise.

388
00:17:40.980 --> 00:17:44.460
And then Wayun just cracks into laughter and goes, oh, what a

389
00:17:44.460 --> 00:17:44.940
funny joke.

390
00:17:45.900 --> 00:17:48.900
We don't even need to make up the jokes anymore.

391
00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:49.920
Yeah.

392
00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:52.920
No, but isn't that isn't that the joke?

393
00:17:52.980 --> 00:17:56.640
The joke is them playing with the fact that they're not riding

394
00:17:56.640 --> 00:17:59.400
lines for the brain and that even happens in this scene.

395
00:17:59.460 --> 00:18:05.279
The, the, um, they look a lot like, you know, at the beginning of

396
00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:10.680
Return of the Jedi when Leia turns up in Jabber's Palace, dress as

397
00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:13.559
a bounty hunter, and that's what they remind me of.

398
00:18:13.619 --> 00:18:15.240
That's the same sort of helmet, I think.

399
00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:16.799
Damar.

400
00:18:16.859 --> 00:18:18.480
Let's talk about...

401
00:18:18.539 --> 00:18:22.140
God, he's good in this scene and he's really good.

402
00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:26.640
Like, he was good before, but seeing him on the front foot and

403
00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:33.000
seeing him be, you know, be a bit less pathetic, watching him grow

404
00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:33.900
a pair.

405
00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:35.279
He's so great.

406
00:18:35.339 --> 00:18:36.960
He's really good.

407
00:18:37.019 --> 00:18:40.619
And the sort of the amount of time they gave him throughout these

408
00:18:40.619 --> 00:18:42.660
10 episodes to turn that corner.

409
00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:43.319
Oh, hang on.

410
00:18:43.380 --> 00:18:44.400
We'll come back to tomorrow.

411
00:18:45.539 --> 00:18:48.720
No one touches my peppers.

412
00:18:48.779 --> 00:18:49.319
Okay.

413
00:18:49.380 --> 00:18:51.660
I love the stove prop.

414
00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:54.359
Look at the prop. that they're using for the style.

415
00:18:54.420 --> 00:18:56.519
Well, it's like you said about Strange New World.

416
00:18:56.579 --> 00:19:00.000
They have scenes where the whole cruise in there and he's whipping

417
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:02.160
up an omelet and things like that, you know, that sort of nice

418
00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:07.079
sort of physical social encounter that you don't really have

419
00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:07.619
anywhere else.

420
00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:10.440
And I suppose you do with Neelix, don't you, in the mess hole?

421
00:19:10.500 --> 00:19:11.519
Yeah, yeah.

422
00:19:11.579 --> 00:19:12.059
Yeah.

423
00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:16.680
But like having the command crew, you know, come together. can

424
00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:17.160
actually cook.

425
00:19:17.220 --> 00:19:17.880
That's the difference.

426
00:19:17.940 --> 00:19:19.799
Yeah, hideous, you know.

427
00:19:19.859 --> 00:19:22.440
Leola root stew and things like that.

428
00:19:22.500 --> 00:19:26.819
Oh, I love, I, look, they're just so naturally intimate with each

429
00:19:26.819 --> 00:19:27.480
other as well.

430
00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:29.640
She is so good.

431
00:19:29.700 --> 00:19:34.259
I mean, I think the sad thing is, like, we don't get any Cisco

432
00:19:34.259 --> 00:19:38.759
this episode, and the relationship between Eddie Cisco, any Jake

433
00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:39.539
this episode.

434
00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:44.640
And the relationship between Ben and Jake does take a back seat, I

435
00:19:44.640 --> 00:19:49.980
think, to the relationship between Ben and Cassidy towards the end

436
00:19:49.980 --> 00:19:52.019
of the series, which I think is a bit of a shame.

437
00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:55.200
People were appalled, weren't they, when he says goodbye to

438
00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:57.960
Cassidy in the last episode and then not to Jake?

439
00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:01.079
But then that does leave you with that really sort of melancholic

440
00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:03.779
final scene where he's staring out at the wormhole.

441
00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:06.779
I thought that was a really, it's almost like, you know, it's not

442
00:20:06.779 --> 00:20:07.140
quite over.

443
00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:08.700
He'll be back.

444
00:20:08.759 --> 00:20:10.019
Yeah.

445
00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:14.880
Also, I like I like this character of Rassat a lot because that's

446
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:19.619
who Demar used to be. before he fell under Weighing's thumb.

447
00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:26.039
I was saying that Demar has a demand now. like he has his own

448
00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:26.700
demand.

449
00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:27.599
He's got so good.

450
00:20:27.660 --> 00:20:34.740
And, and I have to say too, that I, I actually think that we lose

451
00:20:34.740 --> 00:20:42.539
something in the change in um, Ducart's character and in the

452
00:20:42.539 --> 00:20:44.220
changing wind's character.

453
00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:49.319
But having demand now as the guy in charge of the Cardassians

454
00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:52.740
which kind of makes sense, he's so good.

455
00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:57.359
It's... and that's what's interesting about it.

456
00:20:57.420 --> 00:21:01.619
From the 2nd he took control or not, because he was way of

457
00:21:01.619 --> 00:21:02.160
hopeless.

458
00:21:02.220 --> 00:21:03.240
He was hopeless.

459
00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:05.220
Yeah, and they knew that and they exploited that.

460
00:21:05.220 --> 00:21:07.980
And suddenly 1000000s of Cardassians are dying because he's not

461
00:21:07.980 --> 00:21:11.279
strong enough to say, well, he is now, but he wasn't then to say

462
00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:13.200
you know, we're not going to, we're not going to use them like

463
00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:13.319
that.

464
00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:16.079
Rasot goes on to be so interesting.

465
00:21:16.140 --> 00:21:17.640
He's got 2 more episodes after this.

466
00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:20.880
Okay. before Damara is the one.

467
00:21:20.940 --> 00:21:25.680
So basically, Kira, in a very savvy move from the writers, has to

468
00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:31.079
join the Cardassian resistance and help them overthrow.

469
00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:34.680
It's the ultimate irony Yeah, the best plot thread of the entire

470
00:21:34.680 --> 00:21:35.160
last 10.

471
00:21:35.400 --> 00:21:38.640
Um, and DeMar, I was going to have to choose between either

472
00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:42.299
killing Kira or killing Rassart.

473
00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:45.839
So basically the new Cardassia or the old Cardassia.

474
00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:46.559
Yeah, yeah.

475
00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:49.859
And it's such a brilliant scene because you know, for a 2nd you

476
00:21:49.859 --> 00:21:51.299
don't quite know which way he's going to go.

477
00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:52.380
It's wonderful.

478
00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:57.359
The other thing too is that Casey Bigs is sort of handsome. isn't

479
00:21:57.359 --> 00:21:57.480
he?

480
00:21:57.539 --> 00:22:01.200
Like he's a good looking man, even under all the lizard makeup.

481
00:22:01.259 --> 00:22:03.660
He's got sort of subtle charisma as well.

482
00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:05.880
Yes, yeah, I think so too.

483
00:22:05.940 --> 00:22:10.799
So speaking about the under the lizard makeup, this scene is

484
00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:12.539
absolutely hilarious.

485
00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:17.460
So we have Soulbore and...

486
00:22:17.460 --> 00:22:21.180
She's cancelling all of her appointments. because she doesn't want

487
00:22:21.180 --> 00:22:24.480
to do anything with anyone and she's saying I'm going to do a lot

488
00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:25.619
of meditation and stuff.

489
00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:28.019
So just piss off and leave me alone.

490
00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:32.700
And then, and then, like, in a normal drama, that entrance there

491
00:22:32.700 --> 00:22:38.640
of gull, you can't would have been him wrapped in a towel kind of

492
00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:39.240
drink.

493
00:22:39.359 --> 00:22:44.400
Because he comes out and starts ordering breakfast from Soulbore

494
00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:49.019
and like clearly they've been fucking and, you know, and Soulbore

495
00:22:49.019 --> 00:22:51.180
goes, Ah, yes, I see.

496
00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:54.359
You know, like that's the conclusion that he comes to as well.

497
00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:55.859
No day for he goes.

498
00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:57.240
I see.

499
00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:02.759
He's so, he's literally, he spends his whole, this whole episode

500
00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:04.920
just appalled at everything that's going on.

501
00:23:06.119 --> 00:23:08.819
And so I do agree with you.

502
00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:12.900
I do think Win and Ducat are sort of more comic book villains now

503
00:23:12.900 --> 00:23:16.019
than the very multifaceted villains they were before.

504
00:23:16.079 --> 00:23:17.099
Yeah.

505
00:23:17.099 --> 00:23:19.319
But, and it's a big thing.

506
00:23:19.380 --> 00:23:24.420
What you get is massively funny, high camp scenes with 2 amazing

507
00:23:24.420 --> 00:23:24.900
acts.

508
00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:27.660
It's the slimiest romance you're ever going to see on television

509
00:23:27.660 --> 00:23:32.759
between Gold Ducat and Kai Wynn and I just love both actors.

510
00:23:32.819 --> 00:23:34.259
Yeah, yeah.

511
00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:36.779
Well, they just turn a line, can't let both of them.

512
00:23:36.839 --> 00:23:37.380
Yeah.

513
00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:40.920
But like the interesting thing about her character.

514
00:23:40.980 --> 00:23:44.220
Like we have Kia Parker in series one and then she goes away and

515
00:23:44.220 --> 00:23:48.000
Kai Wynn turns up and her 1st big thing is insisting that

516
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:54.960
creationism gets taught in the school, you know, um, uh, and I

517
00:23:54.960 --> 00:24:02.579
think that her kind of she's devious and manipulative and has this

518
00:24:02.579 --> 00:24:08.279
sort of um, surface kind of piety which you can't buy and which is

519
00:24:08.279 --> 00:24:11.579
also, which you can't really buy and which is really slappable

520
00:24:11.700 --> 00:24:11.940
well.

521
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:14.519
She's so low.

522
00:24:14.579 --> 00:24:15.900
I've heard her cool, you know?

523
00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:17.880
Yeah, but I think it's better than that.

524
00:24:17.940 --> 00:24:19.980
And I think she's so loathsome.

525
00:24:20.039 --> 00:24:23.880
Like she's, you really, really want her to get her comeuppance and

526
00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:24.539
she never does.

527
00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:26.400
She was great.

528
00:24:26.460 --> 00:24:28.680
She's always loathsome with a smile, you know?

529
00:24:28.740 --> 00:24:31.500
Yeah, yeah. sort of self-satisfied smile.

530
00:24:31.559 --> 00:24:33.299
Yeah, it's wonderful.

531
00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:35.640
It's a great religious leader.

532
00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:36.599
That's what they like.

533
00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:37.559
They're all like that.

534
00:24:37.619 --> 00:24:41.160
But you know, I will I'll make a defence of the 1st couple of

535
00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:44.700
episodes of this art, though, where she thinks she's been

536
00:24:44.700 --> 00:24:47.880
contacted by the prophets in Till Death to Us part.

537
00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:52.079
Then Dukart comes in and it's a massive manipulation by the power

538
00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:52.680
raves.

539
00:24:52.740 --> 00:24:55.859
Then she realises it's a power ride. appalled and she actually

540
00:24:55.859 --> 00:24:59.339
there's a sequence where she just begs to one of the orbs.

541
00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:03.240
Please talk to me, oh, renounce them, you know, and all of that.

542
00:25:03.299 --> 00:25:05.519
So it's not like it's something that happens very quickly.

543
00:25:05.579 --> 00:25:08.039
You do see the transition from.

544
00:25:08.099 --> 00:25:10.440
But I think it's at this point, change your face of evil.

545
00:25:10.500 --> 00:25:13.740
She's just evil now, you know, and that loses all the subtlety.

546
00:25:13.799 --> 00:25:18.660
Well, in fact, she's not quite evil yet, and it is because she

547
00:25:18.660 --> 00:25:21.900
doesn't know that this is Duquart.

548
00:25:21.960 --> 00:25:25.920
And, of course, she's going to stab softball.

549
00:25:27.240 --> 00:25:30.660
You recognise the face of your enemy.

550
00:25:32.700 --> 00:25:34.440
Oh, okay.

551
00:25:34.500 --> 00:25:36.359
So this Alamo toy.

552
00:25:36.420 --> 00:25:38.880
I mean, what was it about the Alamo in the last season and this

553
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:39.299
pair?

554
00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:41.819
Yeah, so what are they doing?

555
00:25:41.940 --> 00:25:45.539
So this is what they're doing to disguise the fact that they're

556
00:25:45.539 --> 00:25:48.660
kind of shagging like rabbits when everyone else is out of the

557
00:25:48.660 --> 00:25:48.839
room.

558
00:25:49.019 --> 00:25:52.920
It is kind of acknowledged in one of the episodes coming up where

559
00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:56.579
Bashir says, you know, I love Ezri, but I like you a bit more.

560
00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:00.539
So it's all I'm heading in that direction.

561
00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:03.480
And then Miles just goes, well, I love my wife, all right?

562
00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:04.740
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

563
00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:06.119
Straight panic.

564
00:26:06.539 --> 00:26:09.539
What I was thinking about this, I was like, this is just like

565
00:26:09.539 --> 00:26:11.940
people playing Warhammer and those sort of games, isn't it?

566
00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:12.480
in the shops.

567
00:26:12.539 --> 00:26:15.420
You know, there's something to take their mind off the fact that

568
00:26:15.420 --> 00:26:16.380
terrible things are going on.

569
00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:20.039
And it's a famous loss, isn't it?

570
00:26:20.099 --> 00:26:22.740
Like it's a famous catastrophic loss.

571
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:24.119
Remember the Alamo.

572
00:26:24.180 --> 00:26:30.180
And so I think that having them play with an Alamo thing, I mean

573
00:26:30.180 --> 00:26:32.940
we know that everything's going to be fine, but I do think that

574
00:26:32.940 --> 00:26:36.420
there's an edge to that being the thing that they're playing with

575
00:26:36.420 --> 00:26:37.500
at the moment.

576
00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:39.779
I like cork's nerves as well.

577
00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:43.740
Like, for once, he's just not the comedy character in the scene.

578
00:26:43.799 --> 00:26:45.839
He's like, I think we should build a moat around the station.

579
00:26:45.900 --> 00:26:48.359
Yeah, you know Yeah.

580
00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:51.000
He can't believe that they're just playing.

581
00:26:51.059 --> 00:26:54.180
Oh, this is even better with toys.

582
00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:54.839
He is a child.

583
00:26:55.799 --> 00:27:00.059
When it says later on, with little figures and she goes, it's a

584
00:27:00.059 --> 00:27:01.019
model, okay?

585
00:27:01.079 --> 00:27:05.400
But she deliberately misunderstands him and he says he calls her

586
00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:05.759
on it.

587
00:27:05.819 --> 00:27:07.799
You know, I was talking about Bashir and you know it.

588
00:27:07.859 --> 00:27:11.099
You know, like they're actually working really, really well

589
00:27:11.099 --> 00:27:15.420
together. he looks over the balcony, doesn't he?

590
00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:18.660
And he goes, you know, I could defend that four, you know, and she

591
00:27:18.660 --> 00:27:20.819
goes, well, look, if you want to go and play with them, off you go

592
00:27:20.819 --> 00:27:21.180
you know.

593
00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:24.180
All boys together.

594
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:28.740
And she is being a bit defensive.

595
00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:32.640
Like she is kind of a bit like she sees his point.

596
00:27:32.700 --> 00:27:34.019
It's cute.

597
00:27:34.079 --> 00:27:35.160
I think it is cute.

598
00:27:35.220 --> 00:27:38.940
Do you remember the sequence where Bashir, it actually finally get

599
00:27:38.940 --> 00:27:42.119
together when they're going up in the turbo lift together and then

600
00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:43.680
it comes up into ops.

601
00:27:43.740 --> 00:27:45.420
By the time they get there, they're snogging.

602
00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:48.660
And everyone can see, and Wolf goes, oh, God.

603
00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:51.539
And he presses the button to get the lift to go back down.

604
00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:56.279
It's complete a total soap operato.

605
00:27:56.880 --> 00:28:01.079
That's why we love it Yes, okay.

606
00:28:01.140 --> 00:28:03.359
So this is the beat where he says it's not defendable.

607
00:28:03.839 --> 00:28:08.400
I really want to, I would like to talk about how they visually

608
00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:12.539
differentiate the 3 locations in this as well because, okay, yeah.

609
00:28:12.599 --> 00:28:16.019
I think we've got a lot of different sets in play here, don't

610
00:28:16.019 --> 00:28:16.140
you?

611
00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:20.700
You've got the defiant, the station, Cardassia, Bajor, and I think

612
00:28:20.700 --> 00:28:24.420
they're doing more so than design, although design's involved.

613
00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:27.480
It's the lighting in all the different places and they're doing

614
00:28:27.480 --> 00:28:29.460
lots of establishing shots as well.

615
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:32.400
So you keep getting that shot of Bajor with the temples and the

616
00:28:32.400 --> 00:28:35.759
waterfalls, that all Willian shot of Cardassia.

617
00:28:35.819 --> 00:28:38.880
It feels like we're on a big stage now.

618
00:28:39.299 --> 00:28:45.779
This scene, like, um, Casey Biggs is so good in this scene with

619
00:28:45.779 --> 00:28:46.559
Wayoon.

620
00:28:46.619 --> 00:28:47.460
Look at him.

621
00:28:47.519 --> 00:28:49.980
He's like absolutely in control.

622
00:28:50.039 --> 00:28:53.819
He's holding back. you know, there's none of the sort of

623
00:28:53.819 --> 00:28:54.660
patheticness.

624
00:28:54.660 --> 00:28:59.099
And and Wayoon is actually a little bit on the back foot as well.

625
00:28:59.160 --> 00:29:02.519
And he's a total gossip as well about the brain, isn't he?

626
00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:07.740
I wondered whether this was actually doing a funny retcon of

627
00:29:07.740 --> 00:29:10.740
something about the brain because the brain do get mentioned in

628
00:29:10.740 --> 00:29:12.839
TNG, I think.

629
00:29:12.900 --> 00:29:17.640
And then that's just a name that they use, you know, for this.

630
00:29:17.700 --> 00:29:20.880
But I kind of like the idea they just wear the refrigeration suits

631
00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:21.599
for no reason.

632
00:29:21.660 --> 00:29:22.799
Like, why do they do that?

633
00:29:22.859 --> 00:29:26.700
Oh, I don't know if you noticed that they, throughout the episode

634
00:29:26.700 --> 00:29:29.819
it's an interesting directional choice, they often have a

635
00:29:29.819 --> 00:29:35.039
Cardassian behind Wayoon when he's in seats and they're setting up

636
00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:40.200
that last scene where the Cardassians have turned and he's got one

637
00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:43.140
bit and he gives him like a look like, 0 God, I've got to watch my

638
00:29:43.140 --> 00:29:43.980
back now, you know?

639
00:29:44.460 --> 00:29:46.079
Look at that.

640
00:29:46.140 --> 00:29:48.059
Look how good looking he is.

641
00:29:48.119 --> 00:29:51.420
Look, even despite the lizard maker. lips as well, isn't it?

642
00:29:51.480 --> 00:29:52.680
He's got nice lips.

643
00:29:52.740 --> 00:29:53.640
Yeah, yeah.

644
00:29:53.700 --> 00:29:57.900
You know, like talking about actors that can turn a line, Jeffrey

645
00:29:57.900 --> 00:29:58.440
Combs.

646
00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:04.019
There's something different about you today, DeMar.

647
00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:08.519
Is he the campus character in Star Trek?

648
00:30:08.519 --> 00:30:10.079
It's pretty great, isn't he?

649
00:30:10.140 --> 00:30:14.460
He is very canned. stepped out into the light once again.

650
00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:21.299
And the thing is that he is completely wrong. and Damar isn't

651
00:30:21.299 --> 00:30:28.259
really giving him anything or, you know, like he's, he's kind of

652
00:30:28.259 --> 00:30:32.279
and you know me so well because he's completely misanalyzed

653
00:30:32.279 --> 00:30:33.480
exactly what's going on.

654
00:30:33.539 --> 00:30:41.460
And then, uh, then, uh, um, why in says, oh, you know, um, isn't

655
00:30:41.460 --> 00:30:45.779
it nice when we, when we agree, you know, like he's completely...

656
00:30:45.900 --> 00:30:47.819
Yes, I like it so much better when we agree.

657
00:30:48.660 --> 00:30:52.680
I totally misread the entire sequence.

658
00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:55.140
It's a little tight smile from demand.

659
00:30:55.140 --> 00:30:56.099
Well, we haven't seen before.

660
00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:58.500
One big happy family, aren't we?

661
00:30:58.920 --> 00:31:01.200
So I think we know.

662
00:31:01.259 --> 00:31:02.460
We do know, don't we?

663
00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:04.980
Because we had the conversation with, what's his name, Resant or

664
00:31:04.980 --> 00:31:05.220
something.

665
00:31:05.279 --> 00:31:06.059
Yeah.

666
00:31:06.119 --> 00:31:07.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

667
00:31:07.619 --> 00:31:08.039
Yeah.

668
00:31:08.099 --> 00:31:13.559
So again, you know, she was teaching creationism and she was

669
00:31:13.559 --> 00:31:19.079
joining, you know, like doing treaties and and having barile

670
00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:21.180
killed, which is, you know, fair enough.

671
00:31:22.019 --> 00:31:24.900
But here it's magic books.

672
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:26.940
She has to find a magic book.

673
00:31:27.059 --> 00:31:31.319
And it's so like, no, it's a magic book that after you've murdered

674
00:31:31.319 --> 00:31:33.180
somebody and spilled our blood on it.

675
00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:34.200
The words appear.

676
00:31:34.259 --> 00:31:35.339
Yeah, then the words appear.

677
00:31:35.400 --> 00:31:37.680
And she even pretended to me. don't like that shit, right?

678
00:31:37.740 --> 00:31:38.640
No, I love it.

679
00:31:38.700 --> 00:31:39.359
It's wonderful.

680
00:31:39.420 --> 00:31:42.299
And it's so not science fiction at all.

681
00:31:42.359 --> 00:31:46.079
And all I can think about, like, I've never watched Days of our

682
00:31:46.079 --> 00:31:52.500
Lives, but my friend, my very close friend, Robert Watches, watches

683
00:31:52.500 --> 00:31:52.980
it all the time.

684
00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:57.539
And it's a soap, daytime soap opera, American daytime soap opera

685
00:31:57.539 --> 00:32:00.720
but like the lead is sometimes possessed by the devil and they go

686
00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:02.880
and they look for magic artefacts and stuff.

687
00:32:02.940 --> 00:32:06.660
It's not, like it's, it's, you know, supposed to be sort of an

688
00:32:06.660 --> 00:32:09.119
everyday thing, but there's supernatural stuff that happens in

689
00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:09.299
it.

690
00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:10.559
And that's what this is.

691
00:32:10.619 --> 00:32:12.779
Like this is a soap opera.

692
00:32:12.839 --> 00:32:15.720
And, you know, even the fact that outside the window, there's a

693
00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:19.559
painted backdrop, a pretty great painted backdrop, but still, you

694
00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:24.000
know, reminded me of Dante's Cove, you know, which is a gay soap

695
00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:25.319
opera, a really dreadful one.

696
00:32:25.380 --> 00:32:28.500
But it's a gay soap opera with like witchcraft leanings to it.

697
00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:32.220
Yes, it was very often spells and magical books and, you know, in

698
00:32:32.220 --> 00:32:33.900
between all the anal sex as well.

699
00:32:33.960 --> 00:32:37.440
Yeah, well, it was a great, a great watch, obviously.

700
00:32:38.339 --> 00:32:40.859
Well, it's the same period, isn't it?

701
00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:41.880
It's 90s, isn't it?

702
00:32:41.940 --> 00:32:42.960
Dante's Cove?

703
00:32:43.019 --> 00:32:43.319
yeah.

704
00:32:43.380 --> 00:32:43.740
Yeah.

705
00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:47.579
I do like as well that throughout these scenes, Soulboy is

706
00:32:47.579 --> 00:32:50.759
constantly trying to claw her back, you know, someone's on her

707
00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:51.000
side.

708
00:32:51.059 --> 00:32:52.559
Yeah, yeah.

709
00:32:52.619 --> 00:32:55.140
The guy punches him in the face, the poor fella.

710
00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:56.160
That's so great.

711
00:32:56.220 --> 00:32:57.119
That's pretty good.

712
00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:02.460
And he sort of goes, yeah, wow, I haven't punched people in the

713
00:33:02.460 --> 00:33:03.119
face for a while.

714
00:33:03.180 --> 00:33:03.720
That was great.

715
00:33:03.779 --> 00:33:06.420
You know, he's got his fist, isn't he?

716
00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:10.079
He gets his hand and sort of like goes, yeah, that was that was

717
00:33:10.079 --> 00:33:10.319
good.

718
00:33:10.380 --> 00:33:11.640
That felt good. doing that.

719
00:33:11.700 --> 00:33:14.400
But then when he comes back in the room and she's asleep and he

720
00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:17.519
sort of gives her a look like a snake approaching it, cry.

721
00:33:17.579 --> 00:33:19.920
And then sort of goes, wake up, my love.

722
00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:23.160
It's so funny.

723
00:33:23.220 --> 00:33:26.880
The other thing that he's just absurd is that she doesn't

724
00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:29.579
recognise him, like, whoa, or anybody.

725
00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:32.279
He was walking around the station, you know, like that.

726
00:33:32.819 --> 00:33:34.019
No one recognises it.

727
00:33:34.140 --> 00:33:37.140
I think like a soap opera, when people are recast, you just have

728
00:33:37.140 --> 00:33:37.619
to go with it.

729
00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:39.240
Yeah, well that's it.

730
00:33:39.299 --> 00:33:42.960
But I mean, the fact is that, you know, everyone can just look

731
00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:45.839
like everyone else that's completely well established.

732
00:33:45.900 --> 00:33:49.440
We've seen it before, that we did 2nd skin, for God's sake.

733
00:33:49.500 --> 00:33:50.940
So we know that it's possible.

734
00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:54.779
Genesis, where people can be evolved into monsters and then be

735
00:33:54.779 --> 00:33:55.319
back to normal.

736
00:33:55.319 --> 00:33:56.160
And then be back next week.

737
00:33:56.160 --> 00:34:00.119
By the... the last that break. implausible, you know?

738
00:34:00.180 --> 00:34:04.980
But the fact, but again, it's very so proper-ish, isn't it?

739
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:10.019
that that can see that, you know, he has to be played, um, he has

740
00:34:10.019 --> 00:34:15.000
to be played, uh, by Mark Elamo because that's who plays, you

741
00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:15.420
can't.

742
00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:19.559
But, you know, for you recognise his voice, you know.

743
00:34:19.619 --> 00:34:23.159
There was a line earlier where I really wish they'd just added one

744
00:34:23.159 --> 00:34:25.679
extra bit to it, which goes, you know, I can't keep pretending

745
00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:28.320
these robes, you know, this office.

746
00:34:28.380 --> 00:34:31.440
And what I wanted that to say was this shitty backdrop behind me

747
00:34:31.739 --> 00:34:33.659
baiting.

748
00:34:33.719 --> 00:34:35.159
Oh it's terrible, isn't it?

749
00:34:35.219 --> 00:34:36.119
It is really bad.

750
00:34:36.179 --> 00:34:39.119
And the weird thing is the lighting's good because you're going

751
00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:41.579
throughout a single day in these sequences.

752
00:34:41.639 --> 00:34:45.059
So the sunlight starts creeping in and going down and that's

753
00:34:45.059 --> 00:34:45.659
really effective.

754
00:34:45.719 --> 00:34:46.920
But that backdrop.

755
00:34:46.980 --> 00:34:51.360
I mean, I have to say the paper on the book doesn't look like old

756
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:52.019
paper.

757
00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:54.900
It looks like butcher's paper that they've kind of distressed.

758
00:34:57.659 --> 00:34:59.820
Oh, dear.

759
00:34:59.820 --> 00:35:03.300
But I think the idea is, obviously, her office is in some glorious

760
00:35:03.300 --> 00:35:04.980
position in the mountains, isn't it?

761
00:35:05.039 --> 00:35:05.760
you know, high up.

762
00:35:05.820 --> 00:35:09.360
Yeah, I think it looks really good and I like the, I mean, I love

763
00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:11.099
the establishing shots of Bajor.

764
00:35:11.159 --> 00:35:12.300
I think they look really terrific.

765
00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:17.099
See, like, none of the plots are moving, really, are they at the

766
00:35:17.099 --> 00:35:17.219
moment?

767
00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:20.099
We're sort of getting a hint that they're going to. with every

768
00:35:20.099 --> 00:35:23.880
successive scene, but now we get another sitcom moment between

769
00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:25.380
Cisco and Cassidy Yates.

770
00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:29.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. like they're fighting.

771
00:35:29.699 --> 00:35:32.340
We go outside and don't actually hear, do we?

772
00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:33.300
He starts.

773
00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:36.900
Oh, it's so good this scene, isn't it?

774
00:35:37.019 --> 00:35:40.739
Because he's pulled this shit before and she didn't know last

775
00:35:40.739 --> 00:35:41.099
time.

776
00:35:41.159 --> 00:35:42.000
She didn't find out.

777
00:35:42.059 --> 00:35:43.679
We went off about it last time.

778
00:35:43.739 --> 00:35:44.820
Yeah, yeah.

779
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:45.659
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

780
00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:49.440
She goes, oh, my shifts have been rerouted somewhere.

781
00:35:49.500 --> 00:35:51.360
Sometimes he knows he's fancy that.

782
00:35:51.420 --> 00:35:52.139
Who, yeah.

783
00:35:52.860 --> 00:35:57.780
The thing is, I understand his motive, but the fact that he's

784
00:35:57.780 --> 00:36:01.019
taking control from and the choice is entirely wrong.

785
00:36:01.079 --> 00:36:03.119
And they've actually just calls him out on his bullshit, you

786
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:03.300
know?

787
00:36:03.360 --> 00:36:06.900
It's really good I mean, I think they did this in strange

788
00:36:06.900 --> 00:36:10.679
bedfallows as well, where, you know, what's his name?

789
00:36:10.739 --> 00:36:11.460
Wharf's mate.

790
00:36:11.519 --> 00:36:12.480
What's the Klingons name?

791
00:36:12.539 --> 00:36:13.260
Why can't I remember?

792
00:36:13.320 --> 00:36:14.760
Who, Martok?

793
00:36:14.820 --> 00:36:15.719
Martin, thank you.

794
00:36:15.780 --> 00:36:20.280
He has the same Cisco and he goes, you know, you may win the

795
00:36:20.280 --> 00:36:22.260
battle, but she will always win the war.

796
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:24.239
And he's like, nah, we're never going to fight.

797
00:36:24.300 --> 00:36:27.000
And then they have a secret where he's like, I really want you to

798
00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:30.360
officiate. christening, you know, can you do that for me?

799
00:36:30.420 --> 00:36:32.039
And she goes, no, I'm not going to stop.

800
00:36:32.099 --> 00:36:35.099
I believe in the profits just because we got married.

801
00:36:35.639 --> 00:36:40.440
I like that she knows her own mind and she's a strong character

802
00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:43.559
but she's not like a federation character or a military officer or

803
00:36:43.559 --> 00:36:44.219
anything like that.

804
00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:48.900
Well, of course, you know, Penny Johnson goes on to be on the

805
00:36:48.900 --> 00:36:50.940
Orville and is one of the best things about it.

806
00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:54.719
Like she's a really, really excellent actor, I think.

807
00:36:54.780 --> 00:36:58.739
I think we were, they wrote out Penny Johnson in series 4 because

808
00:36:58.739 --> 00:36:59.880
she had other work to do.

809
00:36:59.940 --> 00:37:00.840
She was always in work.

810
00:37:00.900 --> 00:37:02.880
But she came to them.

811
00:37:02.940 --> 00:37:05.400
Yeah, she because she was working for the marquee.

812
00:37:05.460 --> 00:37:07.440
But she came back to them and she goes, look, when you're going to

813
00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:08.760
write me back in, I love doing this.

814
00:37:08.820 --> 00:37:12.360
You give me a sexy lead, Avery Brooks, so I can touch his head all

815
00:37:12.360 --> 00:37:12.719
the time.

816
00:37:12.780 --> 00:37:14.159
You know, like, give me more...

817
00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:18.119
That's why she's always touching him, you know, because she loves

818
00:37:18.119 --> 00:37:18.420
it.

819
00:37:18.480 --> 00:37:20.340
Yeah, well, you would.

820
00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:21.239
Look at him.

821
00:37:21.719 --> 00:37:26.579
Nathan, why do you need to consult so many of these dark texts?

822
00:37:27.539 --> 00:37:29.340
magic books.

823
00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:31.559
My magic religious books.

824
00:37:31.619 --> 00:37:34.860
Every interview she ever came about playing Kai Wynn.

825
00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:37.559
She went, oh, my marvellous hat, my tea caddy.

826
00:37:37.619 --> 00:37:38.340
That was on my head.

827
00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:42.239
He goes, I'll say the lives as long as I'm wearing the hat.

828
00:37:43.800 --> 00:37:45.900
It's so good.

829
00:37:45.960 --> 00:37:47.099
It's great, isn't it?

830
00:37:47.159 --> 00:37:49.619
Because she doesn't wear a space outfit, even though she's in a

831
00:37:49.619 --> 00:37:50.639
science fiction show.

832
00:37:50.699 --> 00:37:54.599
Like she wears a sort of kind of religious leader outfit, I

833
00:37:54.599 --> 00:37:54.840
guess.

834
00:37:54.900 --> 00:37:57.960
At least she doesn't wear that weird Sydney Opera house thing that

835
00:37:57.960 --> 00:37:59.219
Kyo Parker wore.

836
00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:01.440
It was very strange.

837
00:38:01.500 --> 00:38:04.440
She, the thing about when and do kind of things like that.

838
00:38:04.500 --> 00:38:09.000
Even people I know that don't like DS9, they love those characters

839
00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:09.239
though.

840
00:38:09.300 --> 00:38:11.760
Those characters almost transcend the show.

841
00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:15.599
I love this.

842
00:38:15.659 --> 00:38:22.079
I love that he brings her flowers and that he fixes it where he

843
00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:22.800
fixes it.

844
00:38:22.860 --> 00:38:26.820
And then she says that, you know, good for you for being man

845
00:38:26.820 --> 00:38:29.699
enough to kind of apologise and recognise you were wrong.

846
00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:30.239
It's good.

847
00:38:31.139 --> 00:38:35.579
But yes, I think that's properly funny where he goes to the door

848
00:38:35.579 --> 00:38:38.579
and says, oh, that'll be Quark with the necklace in case the

849
00:38:38.579 --> 00:38:39.659
flowers didn't work.

850
00:38:39.719 --> 00:38:41.039
I thought that was very cute.

851
00:38:41.099 --> 00:38:45.900
Wait, this is as entrenched in the Dominion War as, say, like the

852
00:38:45.900 --> 00:38:47.760
siege of AR 558 was.

853
00:38:47.820 --> 00:38:52.739
Is this more palatable to you because of the soap elements?

854
00:38:52.739 --> 00:38:53.280
Because, yeah.

855
00:38:54.059 --> 00:38:54.840
Because it's fun.

856
00:38:54.900 --> 00:38:57.059
Because it still isn't very Star Trek, is it?

857
00:38:57.119 --> 00:38:58.380
None of that.

858
00:38:58.440 --> 00:38:59.280
No.

859
00:38:59.340 --> 00:39:00.719
There's no space problem.

860
00:39:00.780 --> 00:39:04.500
There's no technobabble. not Well, the thing that Star Trek

861
00:39:04.500 --> 00:39:09.719
doesn't, well, it sort of does, but modern Star Trek isn't quite

862
00:39:09.719 --> 00:39:14.219
so much about there's evil enemy aliens out to defeat us.

863
00:39:14.280 --> 00:39:15.179
Do you know what I mean?

864
00:39:15.239 --> 00:39:19.199
Like it's about building coalitions and stuff, a federation, you

865
00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:19.440
know.

866
00:39:19.500 --> 00:39:21.119
Um, I don't know.

867
00:39:21.599 --> 00:39:26.519
So decision they made in series 6, to have as many scenes behind

868
00:39:26.519 --> 00:39:28.920
the enemy lines as you do with our heroes.

869
00:39:29.699 --> 00:39:31.260
I'm such a savvy move.

870
00:39:31.320 --> 00:39:31.679
So good.

871
00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:32.340
Yeah.

872
00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:32.880
Yeah.

873
00:39:32.940 --> 00:39:35.699
So, so what I don't get.

874
00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:39.000
So we've just discovered that we might lose the Chintaka system

875
00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:42.780
which we saw them take in...

876
00:39:42.840 --> 00:39:43.559
Yep.

877
00:39:43.619 --> 00:39:46.380
Without those fatest weapons platforms.

878
00:39:46.440 --> 00:39:49.500
Yes, that came alive at the right moment and defeated the

879
00:39:49.500 --> 00:39:50.280
Federation fleet.

880
00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:51.900
Oh, no.

881
00:39:51.960 --> 00:39:53.760
They defeated them, didn't they?

882
00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:55.980
that's right Yeah, but they were taken back in the beginning of

883
00:39:55.980 --> 00:39:56.340
the next.

884
00:39:56.760 --> 00:39:58.500
Yeah, they take it back to the beginning of the season.

885
00:39:58.559 --> 00:40:02.460
That's the thing they do to honour Jadzia's memory. that right?

886
00:40:02.519 --> 00:40:05.099
No, that's when they destroyed the shipyard. that's how much this

887
00:40:05.099 --> 00:40:05.820
shows in blocks.

888
00:40:05.880 --> 00:40:07.320
There's all these battles and things going on.

889
00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:11.639
So this line, trouble in paradise, talking about the boys

890
00:40:11.639 --> 00:40:15.179
relationship, the relationship between miles and trouble in

891
00:40:15.179 --> 00:40:15.659
paradise.

892
00:40:15.719 --> 00:40:18.480
What's this They've started making the perfect love affairs.

893
00:40:18.539 --> 00:40:22.800
Do you not remember in Chimaera where Quark said to Odo, this is

894
00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:25.440
no time for a changeling pride demonstration on the promenade.

895
00:40:25.500 --> 00:40:26.940
We're at war to people, okay?

896
00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:30.480
Wow, it's as close as they ever get.

897
00:40:30.539 --> 00:40:34.320
Now we get to actually have it happen. a mild flirtation rather

898
00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:34.980
than yeah.

899
00:40:35.039 --> 00:40:37.139
Certainly the more we get later.

900
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:41.519
So again, this is banter, which would be just toe curlingly

901
00:40:41.519 --> 00:40:46.199
embarrassing on board Voyager, but it's actually quite good here

902
00:40:46.199 --> 00:40:49.139
because I think it's better written for a start.

903
00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:55.500
And it proceeds from the characters who are more defined, you know

904
00:40:55.500 --> 00:40:57.780
and better active.

905
00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:02.760
But also, I like, I like how they're going from getting the shit

906
00:41:02.760 --> 00:41:08.519
the shit ready for war. to having a conversation about Bashir and

907
00:41:08.519 --> 00:41:10.619
O'Brien, and they keep coming back and forth.

908
00:41:10.679 --> 00:41:14.039
So everyone's doing something to do with the plot or to do with

909
00:41:14.039 --> 00:41:17.579
the ship and they're all given an opinion about this, you know

910
00:41:17.579 --> 00:41:18.780
totally irrelevant.

911
00:41:18.900 --> 00:41:19.619
Which is also a plot.

912
00:41:19.679 --> 00:41:20.460
No, it's not.

913
00:41:20.519 --> 00:41:23.639
We had a, we had a scene about it earlier on in Quarks. you know

914
00:41:23.639 --> 00:41:24.960
it's one of the some plots.

915
00:41:25.019 --> 00:41:26.820
I guess the best odds.

916
00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:28.199
I love that one about the toys.

917
00:41:28.260 --> 00:41:29.880
Like, she's the most fun of all.

918
00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:32.400
I mean, now she's loosened up in 7 years.

919
00:41:32.460 --> 00:41:33.780
Yeah.

920
00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:37.199
So I want to ask you something because I can't remember.

921
00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:46.739
How long does the Defiance stay exploded for next week?

922
00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:49.079
No, it's 3 episodes time.

923
00:41:49.139 --> 00:41:50.400
Right okay.

924
00:41:50.460 --> 00:41:51.539
Just 3 episodes.

925
00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:54.420
And it forces, because we haven't got the define anymore.

926
00:41:54.480 --> 00:42:00.119
It forces us onto the Kira Cardassian resistance plot, which is

927
00:42:00.119 --> 00:42:01.320
actually really, really interesting.

928
00:42:01.380 --> 00:42:05.579
But yeah, it's such a shame, you know, that they felt the, I get

929
00:42:05.579 --> 00:42:08.519
they wanted, well they wanted to reuse footage from previous

930
00:42:08.519 --> 00:42:09.840
battles in the finale.

931
00:42:09.900 --> 00:42:11.280
That's probably why they brought it back.

932
00:42:11.340 --> 00:42:13.320
And it's kind of cute when they do.

933
00:42:13.380 --> 00:42:19.739
Well, punch a soul bar. takes the books back. good for him I do

934
00:42:19.739 --> 00:42:22.500
like this lighting in this scene, this sort of golden lighting.

935
00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:24.599
I think Beijo is probably a very beautiful planet.

936
00:42:24.719 --> 00:42:26.340
It's very yellow.

937
00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:27.539
Yeah.

938
00:42:27.900 --> 00:42:31.440
Somebody to look out the window and go, oh, isn't it gorgeous?

939
00:42:31.500 --> 00:42:32.639
We're never going to see it, you know.

940
00:42:33.360 --> 00:42:35.099
There he is.

941
00:42:35.099 --> 00:42:36.900
Exercising his fist.

942
00:42:36.900 --> 00:42:38.039
Now he comes in.

943
00:42:38.039 --> 00:42:39.480
Watch him asleep.

944
00:42:39.539 --> 00:42:42.599
Watch him as he approaches her now and goes...

945
00:42:42.599 --> 00:42:44.219
Like a snake.

946
00:42:44.280 --> 00:42:49.199
Yeah, there's just one weird moment there. weird moment where he

947
00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:50.579
bares his teeth for a second.

948
00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:52.500
It's very odd.

949
00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:53.400
It's a great choice.

950
00:42:53.519 --> 00:42:57.000
And that sort of subtle purring, you know?

951
00:42:57.059 --> 00:42:58.980
There's work to be done, my love.

952
00:43:00.719 --> 00:43:03.360
Oh, please don't have sex apparently.

953
00:43:03.360 --> 00:43:03.960
I can't watch it.

954
00:43:04.019 --> 00:43:05.340
No, well I did it.

955
00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:08.460
They did it before the episode began fortunately.

956
00:43:08.519 --> 00:43:10.079
Until Death Deal's part.

957
00:43:10.139 --> 00:43:12.659
She's in her 90 and he just grabs hold of her in the room.

958
00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:14.519
And thank God, we cut to an ad break.

959
00:43:15.659 --> 00:43:18.840
I've never been more grateful for a fade out.

960
00:43:19.739 --> 00:43:21.239
Yeah.

961
00:43:21.300 --> 00:43:23.219
Yeah, we don't need to see any of that.

962
00:43:23.340 --> 00:43:28.019
It's the same way that we're spared Miles and Keiko having sex as

963
00:43:28.019 --> 00:43:28.619
well, I think.

964
00:43:28.739 --> 00:43:30.599
So very tasteful.

965
00:43:30.659 --> 00:43:35.579
Renee Echivaria says on the memory alpha.

966
00:43:35.639 --> 00:43:39.000
This episode was a deliberate culmination of the 1st 4 episodes.

967
00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:43.500
They wanted to leave, you know, and then start sort of the next

968
00:43:43.500 --> 00:43:47.280
chapter off the final chapter when it rains.

969
00:43:47.340 --> 00:43:52.980
So what we have now is 3 sort of definitive conclusions to the

970
00:43:52.980 --> 00:43:57.780
Kaiwin, Dukat, the Chintaka system, and Damar, and his

971
00:43:57.780 --> 00:43:58.679
revolution.

972
00:43:58.739 --> 00:44:03.000
But then with lots of opportunities to go on and explore, you know

973
00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:04.260
the developments here as well.

974
00:44:04.559 --> 00:44:10.199
So the thing is that this, which is a scene where we're watching

975
00:44:10.199 --> 00:44:16.679
Demar and Resot talking about what their plans are, we never see

976
00:44:16.679 --> 00:44:23.639
the thing, obviously, because they can't afford to do it, but We

977
00:44:23.639 --> 00:44:28.860
do actually, though, get to see a proper space battle action

978
00:44:28.860 --> 00:44:31.320
sequence, which is pretty good.

979
00:44:31.440 --> 00:44:33.000
Yeah, really good.

980
00:44:33.059 --> 00:44:36.059
I think the final shot of the defiant coming into view and then

981
00:44:36.059 --> 00:44:36.900
being torn apart.

982
00:44:37.019 --> 00:44:38.280
Torn to peace pieces.

983
00:44:38.340 --> 00:44:39.179
It's really good.

984
00:44:39.239 --> 00:44:42.840
There's something I don't feel it myself, but there is something.

985
00:44:42.900 --> 00:44:46.139
Star Trek fans that pour over technical manuals or things like

986
00:44:46.139 --> 00:44:46.380
that.

987
00:44:46.440 --> 00:44:49.800
They have an affinity with these starships and it is something

988
00:44:49.800 --> 00:44:54.000
akin to loss of a character when you lose, you know, a famous

989
00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:54.780
starship.

990
00:44:54.840 --> 00:44:58.320
I think it's probably how people felt in search for Spock, you

991
00:44:58.320 --> 00:44:59.159
know, when they...

992
00:44:59.280 --> 00:44:59.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

993
00:44:59.820 --> 00:45:01.139
Oh no, that was a huge deal.

994
00:45:01.199 --> 00:45:02.099
Don't you think?

995
00:45:02.159 --> 00:45:04.320
Because they'd never brought the Enterprise back before.

996
00:45:04.380 --> 00:45:09.719
Like, you know, we we used to being up to the Enterprise G or H or

997
00:45:09.719 --> 00:45:11.639
whatever by now, but...

998
00:45:11.639 --> 00:45:14.280
Well, they're doing in this episode for one. saying, don't get

999
00:45:14.280 --> 00:45:17.280
comfortable, folks, because the breed have attacked Earth and

1000
00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:20.400
we've lost the stars before we go, you know, our warship.

1001
00:45:20.460 --> 00:45:22.860
Yeah. which will be back in 3 weeks.

1002
00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:27.059
And sort of the suggestion right up until the finale is actually

1003
00:45:27.059 --> 00:45:28.559
the Dominion could win this.

1004
00:45:28.619 --> 00:45:29.699
Yeah.

1005
00:45:29.760 --> 00:45:33.360
Well, we know that they won't, though, but they have to take it as

1006
00:45:33.360 --> 00:45:36.840
close. you know, about there being the next iteration of Star Trek

1007
00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:38.159
called Star Trek Dominion.

1008
00:45:38.219 --> 00:45:39.960
Set on Dominion Occupied Earth.

1009
00:45:40.019 --> 00:45:42.300
That would be good. do that.

1010
00:45:42.360 --> 00:45:44.639
No, they probably could pull it off either.

1011
00:45:45.239 --> 00:45:49.800
What sort of impressed me and frightened me a little bit about

1012
00:45:49.800 --> 00:45:55.019
this sequence was just how adept. they were at war at this point

1013
00:45:55.019 --> 00:45:55.920
you know?

1014
00:45:55.980 --> 00:45:57.480
Cisco, so casual about it.

1015
00:45:57.599 --> 00:46:03.960
Look how great when those ships, like the Gemitar ships get, again

1016
00:46:03.960 --> 00:46:08.820
they get torn apart as well and you see sort of struts and stuff

1017
00:46:08.820 --> 00:46:09.300
like that.

1018
00:46:09.360 --> 00:46:11.519
You you see the inside of them.

1019
00:46:11.579 --> 00:46:12.780
They're really detailed.

1020
00:46:12.840 --> 00:46:13.980
It's properly good.

1021
00:46:14.039 --> 00:46:14.579
Yeah, defined.

1022
00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:15.960
Let's say it's torpedoes like that.

1023
00:46:16.139 --> 00:46:18.659
It gets me a little bit hot, you know.

1024
00:46:18.719 --> 00:46:20.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1025
00:46:20.519 --> 00:46:23.280
But this is great as well, aren't they?

1026
00:46:23.340 --> 00:46:27.179
What you have is every single character starts explaining how

1027
00:46:27.179 --> 00:46:29.699
every element of the ship is shutting down.

1028
00:46:29.760 --> 00:46:31.920
Stop working very quickly, you know?

1029
00:46:31.980 --> 00:46:35.219
And in the same time you got, obviously, consoles exploding.

1030
00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:36.960
The bastards console exploded.

1031
00:46:37.019 --> 00:46:39.480
He fell over very slowly to the ground.

1032
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:41.519
In true melodramatic fashion.

1033
00:46:41.579 --> 00:46:45.239
Kira explodes in slow motion as she falls to the floor.

1034
00:46:45.539 --> 00:46:50.400
But, like, why does Julian have a have a station on the previous

1035
00:46:50.400 --> 00:46:51.420
cheese?

1036
00:46:52.559 --> 00:46:54.059
Just in case lines to deliver.

1037
00:46:54.119 --> 00:46:58.260
I love that too, where the torpedo just grazes the top of the

1038
00:46:58.260 --> 00:46:58.920
defiant.

1039
00:46:58.980 --> 00:47:02.099
Like you actually get to see the sort of damage it does.

1040
00:47:02.159 --> 00:47:02.760
It's really good.

1041
00:47:02.820 --> 00:47:04.320
That's a great battle.

1042
00:47:04.380 --> 00:47:07.139
These sets, they blow the shit out of these sets, don't they?

1043
00:47:09.179 --> 00:47:10.980
They're slightly different.

1044
00:47:11.039 --> 00:47:12.599
They're slightly different.

1045
00:47:12.659 --> 00:47:14.519
They change the carpet because they mention it.

1046
00:47:14.579 --> 00:47:16.500
Yes, that's right.

1047
00:47:16.559 --> 00:47:17.579
The carpet.

1048
00:47:17.639 --> 00:47:22.500
And I did, I did like the bit as, well, he says, abandoned ship

1049
00:47:22.500 --> 00:47:25.079
and everyone looks at him like, for real?

1050
00:47:25.139 --> 00:47:26.880
Yeah, there he is.

1051
00:47:26.940 --> 00:47:29.820
He's doing it now Yep, that's him doing it now.

1052
00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:32.099
What I really liked was when he just turned around to look at the

1053
00:47:32.099 --> 00:47:35.280
bridge last time before he went on, as if he was saying goodbye to

1054
00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:36.119
an old friend, you know?

1055
00:47:36.239 --> 00:47:37.260
Yeah.

1056
00:47:37.380 --> 00:47:40.079
I mean, that's a sort of standard Star Trek thing, isn't it?

1057
00:47:40.139 --> 00:47:40.980
At this point.

1058
00:47:41.039 --> 00:47:47.099
And in a way, this, like, the defiant is cheating a little bit, I

1059
00:47:47.099 --> 00:47:50.579
always thought, it's kind of like, well, you know, yes, it's set

1060
00:47:50.579 --> 00:47:54.900
on a station, but we kind of also want, you know, the runabouts

1061
00:47:54.900 --> 00:47:55.320
are shit.

1062
00:47:55.380 --> 00:47:57.780
And it's so cool, Nathan.

1063
00:47:57.840 --> 00:47:59.159
Yeah, it's cool.

1064
00:47:59.219 --> 00:47:59.940
Yeah, yeah.

1065
00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:00.719
It is pretty good.

1066
00:48:00.780 --> 00:48:02.219
Yeah, did you see the state of it there?

1067
00:48:02.280 --> 00:48:03.599
Oh, this shot now.

1068
00:48:03.659 --> 00:48:05.699
So the escape pods come out.

1069
00:48:05.820 --> 00:48:08.760
We follow the escape pod to the battle where there's a ton of

1070
00:48:08.760 --> 00:48:10.079
ships.

1071
00:48:10.139 --> 00:48:14.340
Like that warbird all blown up and there's the defiant drifts into

1072
00:48:14.340 --> 00:48:17.880
Sean before getting hit and just exploding.

1073
00:48:17.940 --> 00:48:18.840
That's it.

1074
00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:21.539
Yeah, it's really good, isn't it?

1075
00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:23.340
Trust way Captain Cisco.

1076
00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:26.400
I believe he was quite fond of that ship.

1077
00:48:26.460 --> 00:48:28.079
It's so good.

1078
00:48:28.739 --> 00:48:32.760
The only pair I was like, really, was when she goes, you know, no

1079
00:48:32.760 --> 00:48:33.960
let the escape pots go.

1080
00:48:34.019 --> 00:48:36.059
They're full of frightened demoralised troops.

1081
00:48:36.119 --> 00:48:38.760
I reckon she's sold it.

1082
00:48:38.820 --> 00:48:41.880
It's such bullshit and they didn't need to say anything.

1083
00:48:41.940 --> 00:48:46.139
And I actually think that that works as a character beat because

1084
00:48:46.139 --> 00:48:50.699
like her, she wants the Federation demoralised.

1085
00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:54.900
I didn't, you know, it's obviously we're not going to blow up the

1086
00:48:54.900 --> 00:48:57.659
things, but we didn't have to mention it.

1087
00:48:57.719 --> 00:49:00.840
We could have just glossed over it and just assumed that once

1088
00:49:00.840 --> 00:49:02.579
you're in the escape pods you escape.

1089
00:49:03.960 --> 00:49:08.460
Come the finale, she has become the best villain of the show and

1090
00:49:08.460 --> 00:49:11.760
she gets lines like, I want the Kardassians exterminated.

1091
00:49:11.820 --> 00:49:14.280
All of them, the entire population.

1092
00:49:14.340 --> 00:49:16.920
You know, she's a mad destiny.

1093
00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:19.380
She's she's holding on too long.

1094
00:49:19.440 --> 00:49:21.719
Like it's been, is that her thing?

1095
00:49:21.780 --> 00:49:22.559
Why is she all?

1096
00:49:23.159 --> 00:49:24.599
why is her face all peeling off?

1097
00:49:24.659 --> 00:49:26.340
So that's a big plot in the final.

1098
00:49:26.400 --> 00:49:26.940
No, no, no.

1099
00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:27.840
That's section 31.

1100
00:49:28.019 --> 00:49:30.480
When Odo...

1101
00:49:30.599 --> 00:49:31.260
Yeah.

1102
00:49:31.320 --> 00:49:38.039
When Odo went to the Earth in season four, they infected him

1103
00:49:38.039 --> 00:49:40.619
section 31, So this all sort of reconed.

1104
00:49:40.679 --> 00:49:46.079
And then he linked with her at the end of season 4 when they took

1105
00:49:46.079 --> 00:49:46.920
his hours away.

1106
00:49:46.920 --> 00:49:51.719
It's been a slow burn since then and it started coming out.

1107
00:49:51.780 --> 00:49:57.900
And Amanda Plummer comes back to take revenge on like for that.

1108
00:49:57.960 --> 00:50:01.800
And there's a wonderful sequence in the 2nd to last episode where

1109
00:50:01.800 --> 00:50:06.420
Odo says, you know, it's funny how the Federation will condemn the

1110
00:50:06.420 --> 00:50:09.420
Dominion for doing all these terrible things and what they've

1111
00:50:09.420 --> 00:50:09.539
done.

1112
00:50:09.599 --> 00:50:11.039
They've tried to commit genocide.

1113
00:50:11.099 --> 00:50:12.000
Yeah.

1114
00:50:12.059 --> 00:50:13.739
It's, you know.

1115
00:50:13.800 --> 00:50:15.239
It's really interesting stuff happening.

1116
00:50:15.300 --> 00:50:16.619
Yeah.

1117
00:50:16.679 --> 00:50:17.280
Yeah.

1118
00:50:17.340 --> 00:50:20.760
And it's like you said, they're looking at the old plots and going

1119
00:50:20.760 --> 00:50:22.559
well, you know, how can we add layers to this?

1120
00:50:22.619 --> 00:50:24.179
You know, we had him go to earth.

1121
00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:25.079
Let's do something with that.

1122
00:50:25.139 --> 00:50:26.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah. right.

1123
00:50:26.639 --> 00:50:28.139
It's just so clever.

1124
00:50:28.199 --> 00:50:32.159
And it's exactly what Ron Moore does in Battlestar Galactica as

1125
00:50:32.159 --> 00:50:36.420
well, because we got to hear that creative process as...

1126
00:50:36.480 --> 00:50:38.760
This might be my favourite scene in the whole episode.

1127
00:50:39.420 --> 00:50:42.300
He lied to you. used you.

1128
00:50:42.420 --> 00:50:43.920
It can't be.

1129
00:50:45.300 --> 00:50:47.820
It's so cheesy.

1130
00:50:47.820 --> 00:50:49.619
Look at him.

1131
00:50:49.679 --> 00:50:50.699
Look at him.

1132
00:50:50.760 --> 00:50:53.219
Kywin, it's Ducant.

1133
00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:54.480
Haven't you been watching the show?

1134
00:50:55.500 --> 00:50:59.760
He doesn't understand the love of the par rapes.

1135
00:51:00.239 --> 00:51:05.039
So I really, I like this too.

1136
00:51:05.099 --> 00:51:11.099
So he's pretending to be someone that actually Ducart had killed

1137
00:51:11.099 --> 00:51:15.000
like he was a Bajoran prisoner, and Ducart was responsible for his

1138
00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:17.099
death, and then he comes back.

1139
00:51:17.099 --> 00:51:18.659
Do you know how he was?

1140
00:51:18.719 --> 00:51:20.400
Yeah, by telling that story.

1141
00:51:20.460 --> 00:51:22.320
Yeah, the...

1142
00:51:23.219 --> 00:51:26.639
No, there was a 100 people that she saved from being executed by

1143
00:51:26.639 --> 00:51:30.059
sleeping with a Cardassian and he's pretending to be that person.

1144
00:51:30.179 --> 00:51:31.559
Right, right.

1145
00:51:32.340 --> 00:51:34.320
And I love that.

1146
00:51:34.380 --> 00:51:37.079
He dies right in front of the camera, doesn't he?

1147
00:51:37.139 --> 00:51:38.519
really good, isn't it?

1148
00:51:41.820 --> 00:51:44.820
And I love that too.

1149
00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:48.239
This could just be, like, this is the bit where she's on the knife

1150
00:51:48.239 --> 00:51:48.719
edge.

1151
00:51:48.780 --> 00:51:50.099
She still feels guilt.

1152
00:51:50.219 --> 00:51:53.880
She still thinks that she's been manipulated into doing something

1153
00:51:53.880 --> 00:51:59.099
really bad and this is the end for her and he manages to bring it

1154
00:51:59.099 --> 00:51:59.460
round.

1155
00:51:59.519 --> 00:52:00.420
It's really good.

1156
00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:02.400
Oh, it's the book, isn't it?

1157
00:52:02.460 --> 00:52:07.320
Yeah, the blood going on the boat. so cheesy.

1158
00:52:07.380 --> 00:52:08.940
It's absurd, isn't it?

1159
00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:10.260
It's wonderful.

1160
00:52:10.320 --> 00:52:11.820
The magic book.

1161
00:52:11.880 --> 00:52:15.239
It's like reveals the power they're offering you.

1162
00:52:15.840 --> 00:52:18.119
And do you remember where this goes?

1163
00:52:18.119 --> 00:52:21.360
Where, you know, she's the only one that's allowed to read that

1164
00:52:21.360 --> 00:52:21.659
book.

1165
00:52:21.719 --> 00:52:23.280
She's the only one that's got access to it.

1166
00:52:23.340 --> 00:52:26.820
Dukat tries to read it in the next episode and the bolt comes out

1167
00:52:26.820 --> 00:52:27.900
of the book and blinds him.

1168
00:52:27.900 --> 00:52:31.380
And then she sends him out on the streets as a blind beggar.

1169
00:52:31.380 --> 00:52:34.619
I'm sure the Bajorans will elicit sympathy.

1170
00:52:34.679 --> 00:52:35.280
Be kind.

1171
00:52:35.340 --> 00:52:36.000
Yeah, yeah.

1172
00:52:36.059 --> 00:52:38.820
You know, it's not subtle, but it is fun.

1173
00:52:39.960 --> 00:52:42.780
She's really selling it too.

1174
00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:44.699
Is she great?

1175
00:52:44.760 --> 00:52:46.679
She's so, look, both of them.

1176
00:52:46.739 --> 00:52:48.599
They're absolutely killing it.

1177
00:52:48.659 --> 00:52:49.380
It's so fun.

1178
00:52:49.440 --> 00:52:51.659
It's when she goes, what about soulborn?

1179
00:52:51.719 --> 00:52:53.400
He's like, I'll take care of the body.

1180
00:52:53.460 --> 00:52:56.460
And then she's just so gently not.

1181
00:52:56.519 --> 00:52:57.179
She nods.

1182
00:52:57.300 --> 00:52:58.679
It's terrific, isn't it?

1183
00:52:58.739 --> 00:52:59.820
That's really good.

1184
00:52:59.880 --> 00:53:04.079
And then her 1st scene in the next episode is her going, it's so

1185
00:53:04.079 --> 00:53:06.059
unlike Sobor to go missing like this.

1186
00:53:06.119 --> 00:53:07.260
Please.

1187
00:53:07.559 --> 00:53:10.380
All the resources into finding him.

1188
00:53:11.880 --> 00:53:13.800
She's such a bitch.

1189
00:53:13.860 --> 00:53:17.400
Now, he's Barry Jesus Christ, he's terrible.

1190
00:53:17.460 --> 00:53:18.539
You know what?

1191
00:53:18.599 --> 00:53:20.519
They get a joke out of him in the next one.

1192
00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:25.320
They're doing the Klingon ceremony and Cisco goes, you know, oh

1193
00:53:25.320 --> 00:53:26.460
they're all cutting their hands.

1194
00:53:26.519 --> 00:53:28.800
And Barry Jenner goes, oh, you're joking.

1195
00:53:28.860 --> 00:53:30.960
And then they go...

1196
00:53:31.079 --> 00:53:32.760
I love this.

1197
00:53:34.260 --> 00:53:37.320
And it's because he's not Ducart.

1198
00:53:37.380 --> 00:53:38.940
There's something a little bit awkward about the speech.

1199
00:53:39.059 --> 00:53:40.440
Yeah, yeah.

1200
00:53:40.500 --> 00:53:41.519
But he's good.

1201
00:53:41.579 --> 00:53:42.960
He's got a great voice as well.

1202
00:53:43.019 --> 00:53:47.159
I think, so this is where we end, isn't it?

1203
00:53:47.219 --> 00:53:49.920
We end on this speech and the reaction to this speech.

1204
00:53:49.980 --> 00:53:52.679
We begin with the destruction of Earth.

1205
00:53:52.739 --> 00:53:53.579
She's so beautiful.

1206
00:53:53.639 --> 00:53:54.960
Look at her. gorgeous.

1207
00:53:55.019 --> 00:53:57.179
That's all she's thinking of.

1208
00:53:57.239 --> 00:53:58.079
You want to know what she's thinking of?

1209
00:53:58.139 --> 00:54:00.059
Actually, you find out what she's thinking in the next couple

1210
00:54:00.059 --> 00:54:00.300
weeks.

1211
00:54:00.719 --> 00:54:04.920
This is going to be one hell of a gorgeous close-up is what she's

1212
00:54:04.920 --> 00:54:05.460
thinking.

1213
00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:09.840
Sounds Renee, though, as the camera lingers on his body.

1214
00:54:09.900 --> 00:54:11.039
Yep.

1215
00:54:11.280 --> 00:54:16.980
Yeah, so this is where it ends because, of course, the big thing

1216
00:54:16.980 --> 00:54:22.739
is in DeepSace 9, despite all of the character stuff, which was

1217
00:54:22.739 --> 00:54:27.179
great, just as important is the shifting kind of status quo of the

1218
00:54:27.179 --> 00:54:32.579
Alpha Quadrant, which is the Sandbox, the Deep Space 9 uniquely

1219
00:54:32.579 --> 00:54:33.420
gets to play in.

1220
00:54:33.480 --> 00:54:34.139
It's so good.

1221
00:54:34.199 --> 00:54:36.239
Big thing in the 1st couple of episodes.

1222
00:54:36.300 --> 00:54:40.739
Sorry, 1st couple of seasons was that the Bajorans were occupied

1223
00:54:40.800 --> 00:54:43.440
they're now not and we're dealing with that.

1224
00:54:43.500 --> 00:54:45.239
And now we've come full circle.

1225
00:54:45.239 --> 00:54:49.079
And we've watched the Kardashians go from, you know, meteoric

1226
00:54:49.079 --> 00:54:52.380
success in the quadrant and now down really low again and now

1227
00:54:52.380 --> 00:54:53.579
they're fighting for their free days.

1228
00:54:53.639 --> 00:54:54.300
Great stuff.

1229
00:54:54.360 --> 00:54:59.639
And and demand nails to the very end of that speech.

1230
00:54:59.699 --> 00:55:03.719
And Casey, like Casey Biggs is almost tearing up.

1231
00:55:03.780 --> 00:55:06.840
It's such, you know, just proper oratory.

1232
00:55:06.900 --> 00:55:08.039
He really sells it.

1233
00:55:08.099 --> 00:55:11.639
It's a great thing to...

1234
00:55:11.699 --> 00:55:12.300
Soon.

1235
00:55:12.360 --> 00:55:14.159
That's all he's thinking of.

1236
00:55:14.579 --> 00:55:17.159
I could be the last Weyune.

1237
00:55:17.219 --> 00:55:18.840
That's why you picked that target.

1238
00:55:18.900 --> 00:55:21.719
Does he not like me or something?

1239
00:55:23.460 --> 00:55:25.619
I said to you.

1240
00:55:25.679 --> 00:55:28.500
It's like they've had it off together once and to Mars now

1241
00:55:28.500 --> 00:55:31.260
determined to bring him down because Wayne's cast him aside.

1242
00:55:31.500 --> 00:55:33.659
I thought we were friends.

1243
00:55:34.440 --> 00:55:39.000
And this very subtle shot of way you're looking at the Kardashian

1244
00:55:39.000 --> 00:55:45.179
over his shoulder. makes me die. better watch my back.

1245
00:55:45.239 --> 00:55:47.219
It's great, isn't it?

1246
00:55:49.320 --> 00:55:53.880
I know, I love how we end as well with one of those very dramatics

1247
00:55:53.880 --> 00:55:57.179
and you know, Legga Demar could be the key to saving the alpha

1248
00:55:57.179 --> 00:55:57.780
quadrants.

1249
00:55:59.880 --> 00:56:01.320
Okay.

1250
00:56:01.380 --> 00:56:04.559
And this is where we lead into the next thing.

1251
00:56:04.619 --> 00:56:09.719
So we've had a 2 tremendous losses and then we get hope at the

1252
00:56:09.719 --> 00:56:10.019
end.

1253
00:56:10.079 --> 00:56:14.820
So I think it works as an individual episode because it has a

1254
00:56:14.820 --> 00:56:19.800
shape and it brings important plots forward.

1255
00:56:19.860 --> 00:56:23.099
But I guess the episodes on either side of it are roughly similar

1256
00:56:23.099 --> 00:56:26.159
feeling as well because we are just... don't quite have the sort

1257
00:56:26.159 --> 00:56:27.780
of triple whammy here at the end.

1258
00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:30.300
You know, they are more sort of, they just sort of stop.

1259
00:56:30.420 --> 00:56:32.820
It's the story continuing and they just sort of stop.

1260
00:56:32.880 --> 00:56:34.920
This feels like a conclusion.

1261
00:56:35.099 --> 00:56:38.940
And then we pick up a whole bunch of new plots in the next one.

1262
00:56:39.000 --> 00:56:42.840
Kira going off, the section 31 plot, all of that, you know.

1263
00:56:42.900 --> 00:56:46.980
There's even time, you know, to turn Roman to the new Grand Nagus

1264
00:56:46.980 --> 00:56:47.880
in those last few episodes.

1265
00:56:47.940 --> 00:56:49.619
Yes, of course, that had to be done.

1266
00:56:50.639 --> 00:56:53.280
And knock into a lieutenant as well.

1267
00:56:53.340 --> 00:56:56.880
There's one person we didn't mention throughout the entire episode

1268
00:56:56.880 --> 00:57:00.000
and I would like to, because it's his last contribution to D-space

1269
00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:00.420
9.

1270
00:57:00.420 --> 00:57:02.159
And that's Jay Chataway.

1271
00:57:02.219 --> 00:57:05.519
And I thought he did really great music, especially during the

1272
00:57:05.519 --> 00:57:05.760
battle.

1273
00:57:05.820 --> 00:57:10.559
You know, he puts a bit of bombast into 90s trek where there

1274
00:57:10.559 --> 00:57:12.000
really is none whatsoever.

1275
00:57:12.179 --> 00:57:16.920
I just remember when he started appearing on Star Trek the Next

1276
00:57:16.920 --> 00:57:20.699
Generation and just how beautiful some of his scores were.

1277
00:57:20.760 --> 00:57:25.260
He's really properly good and we make a lot of fun of Star Trek

1278
00:57:25.260 --> 00:57:31.500
music and it is a bit crappy in the 90s. should we say some?

1279
00:57:31.559 --> 00:57:34.500
Well, yeah, you know, here's the ad break.

1280
00:57:34.559 --> 00:57:42.059
But Jay Chataway is, I think, maybe the best one, the best

1281
00:57:42.059 --> 00:57:42.900
composer they had.

1282
00:57:43.019 --> 00:57:44.579
So does he continue?

1283
00:57:44.639 --> 00:57:46.440
Will he be in Voyager and...

1284
00:57:46.619 --> 00:57:49.320
I think he, I think he does, Voyager.

1285
00:57:49.380 --> 00:57:49.679
Yeah.

1286
00:57:49.739 --> 00:57:51.659
But this was just his last DS 9.

1287
00:57:51.719 --> 00:57:55.260
And what's wonderful is his music for the Chintaka Battle sequence

1288
00:57:55.260 --> 00:57:57.900
on this is on the Star Trek D Space 9 album.

1289
00:57:57.900 --> 00:57:59.820
And I know you're going to be rushing out to buy that.

1290
00:57:59.880 --> 00:58:01.139
I've got it, of course.

1291
00:58:01.199 --> 00:58:03.000
At the end of the track.

1292
00:58:03.059 --> 00:58:05.400
It's the recording, the live recording.

1293
00:58:05.460 --> 00:58:08.940
He turns around to the orchestra and says, thank you very much

1294
00:58:09.000 --> 00:58:10.739
amazing work.

1295
00:58:10.800 --> 00:58:12.780
I've had so much fun working on this show.

1296
00:58:12.840 --> 00:58:13.440
Yeah.

1297
00:58:13.559 --> 00:58:14.460
Wow.

1298
00:58:14.519 --> 00:58:15.539
That's awesome.

1299
00:58:15.599 --> 00:58:16.559
It's a nice touch.

1300
00:58:16.739 --> 00:58:20.760
I mean I can't really find much to complain in that at all.

1301
00:58:20.820 --> 00:58:22.500
You know, it's good characters.

1302
00:58:22.559 --> 00:58:24.119
There's interesting things going on.

1303
00:58:24.179 --> 00:58:25.199
It's funny.

1304
00:58:25.260 --> 00:58:26.280
It's absurd.

1305
00:58:26.400 --> 00:58:28.440
It's everything we love.

1306
00:58:28.500 --> 00:58:30.480
It's absolutely perfect.

1307
00:58:30.539 --> 00:58:31.679
I think it is really great.

1308
00:58:31.739 --> 00:58:35.039
It's very un Star Trek like, but this is a different thing that we

1309
00:58:35.039 --> 00:58:39.719
discover Star Trek can be, like giant, weird political space

1310
00:58:39.719 --> 00:58:44.519
battle things intermixed with, you know, who is going to be Asry's

1311
00:58:44.519 --> 00:58:46.559
next boyfriend and stuff.

1312
00:58:46.619 --> 00:58:49.739
I think all of that stuff is exactly what I want from a show like

1313
00:58:49.739 --> 00:58:54.119
this and I think it was a pretty great episode.

1314
00:58:54.239 --> 00:58:57.059
What I think those 10 episodes do.

1315
00:58:57.119 --> 00:59:00.300
It's basically DS9 in a microcosm.

1316
00:59:00.360 --> 00:59:03.119
I said to you, I think the show gets better and better as it goes

1317
00:59:03.119 --> 00:59:03.420
along.

1318
00:59:03.480 --> 00:59:07.619
Those episodes keep building, you know, and you get a big hitter

1319
00:59:07.619 --> 00:59:09.059
here with change of face of evil.

1320
00:59:09.119 --> 00:59:12.059
You get an even bigger hitter with tacking into the wind.

1321
00:59:12.119 --> 00:59:14.219
I think that's probably the best of the last 10.

1322
00:59:14.579 --> 00:59:19.860
But then I do think the finale, perhaps Milus the par rave stuff

1323
00:59:19.860 --> 00:59:23.099
is a stonkingly good conclusion.

1324
00:59:23.159 --> 00:59:27.599
It's almost got an impossible task to try and wrap up all of these

1325
00:59:27.599 --> 00:59:29.519
plot threads, all of these characters.

1326
00:59:29.579 --> 00:59:33.000
And for the most part, it does succeed at doing that.

1327
00:59:42.059 --> 00:59:46.079
So, we've reached the end of the episode, and now it's time for us

1328
00:59:46.079 --> 00:59:51.119
to decide what we're going to watch next week, and it's my go on

1329
00:59:51.119 --> 00:59:55.500
the randomiser, and I've done a little bit of statistical work

1330
00:59:55.500 --> 01:00:01.260
during the day, and I've got the website bill process to calculate

1331
01:00:01.260 --> 01:00:06.239
the percentage of episodes that we have done.

1332
01:00:06.300 --> 01:00:07.139
It is.

1333
01:00:07.380 --> 01:00:09.719
Just divining a few numbers together.

1334
01:00:09.780 --> 01:00:10.380
It's all fine.

1335
01:00:10.440 --> 01:00:18.539
But it turns out that the most underserved series is the animated

1336
01:00:18.539 --> 01:00:21.480
series where we've done one out of 22 episodes.

1337
01:00:21.539 --> 01:00:22.980
The reason for that.

1338
01:00:23.099 --> 01:00:25.500
Yeah, there is a reason for that.

1339
01:00:25.559 --> 01:00:29.639
And then the one that we've done the most of is Strange New Worlds

1340
01:00:29.639 --> 01:00:33.420
because we've done 3 episodes of series one of that, which is a

1341
01:00:33.420 --> 01:00:36.719
series of 10, and we're currently halfway through series 2.

1342
01:00:36.840 --> 01:00:39.420
I was going to do Strange New Wells next week, you know.

1343
01:00:39.539 --> 01:00:41.760
I don't care what you say, the percentages.

1344
01:00:41.820 --> 01:00:42.659
I'm still going to do it.

1345
01:00:42.719 --> 01:00:45.780
But actually, now I've seen the numbers. think I'll rethink it.

1346
01:00:45.840 --> 01:00:48.300
Well, run out of Strangely Worlds.

1347
01:00:48.360 --> 01:00:49.679
That'd be the sad thing.

1348
01:00:49.739 --> 01:00:52.260
It's been really fun too.

1349
01:00:52.380 --> 01:00:56.820
So I'm on the randomiser and I've just got the animated series

1350
01:00:56.820 --> 01:00:58.440
selected.

1351
01:00:58.500 --> 01:01:03.780
Now, the problem is that neither of us knows anything about this.

1352
01:01:03.840 --> 01:01:06.719
The good thing is they're only about 20 minutes long.

1353
01:01:06.780 --> 01:01:08.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1354
01:01:08.519 --> 01:01:10.619
But we have to do it.

1355
01:01:10.679 --> 01:01:13.739
We have to do it sometime and we've clearly been avoiding it.

1356
01:01:13.800 --> 01:01:17.519
The last time we did it, well, the only time we did it, and it was

1357
01:01:17.519 --> 01:01:18.719
considered a really good one.

1358
01:01:18.780 --> 01:01:21.599
That was trap. appalling.

1359
01:01:22.199 --> 01:01:24.659
That lady had no nose.

1360
01:01:24.719 --> 01:01:25.980
Oh yeah.

1361
01:01:25.980 --> 01:01:28.320
Weird.

1362
01:01:28.380 --> 01:01:33.239
That weird group of aliens around that table. terrible in the game

1363
01:01:33.239 --> 01:01:34.139
Klingons.

1364
01:01:34.199 --> 01:01:36.840
You remember Spock running through the ship trying to find the

1365
01:01:36.840 --> 01:01:37.619
ejection hatch?

1366
01:01:37.739 --> 01:01:38.760
to put the bomb in.

1367
01:01:38.940 --> 01:01:43.980
That's right injection hatch. the ejection hatch.

1368
01:01:44.039 --> 01:01:44.820
All right.

1369
01:01:44.880 --> 01:01:46.199
So more of this stuff.

1370
01:01:46.260 --> 01:01:47.579
I'm going to press the button.

1371
01:01:47.579 --> 01:01:53.039
And your random Star Trek, the animated series episode is

1372
01:01:53.039 --> 01:01:54.420
Albatross.

1373
01:01:54.420 --> 01:01:56.340
Series two, episode four.

1374
01:01:56.400 --> 01:01:58.139
I have literally no idea what that is.

1375
01:01:58.260 --> 01:01:59.940
How do we decide?

1376
01:02:00.360 --> 01:02:02.219
I'll tell you what I'm gonna do.

1377
01:02:02.280 --> 01:02:06.780
I'm going to go on to Jammer's reviews and select the animated

1378
01:02:06.780 --> 01:02:10.500
series just so we've got a little summary of what the episode is

1379
01:02:10.500 --> 01:02:10.800
about.

1380
01:02:10.860 --> 01:02:12.179
So what was that called again?

1381
01:02:12.239 --> 01:02:14.099
Albatross.

1382
01:02:14.159 --> 01:02:16.380
And oh, that's right near the end.

1383
01:02:16.440 --> 01:02:17.039
Yep.

1384
01:02:17.099 --> 01:02:21.719
McCoy is arrested by an alien government and accused of causing a

1385
01:02:21.719 --> 01:02:25.260
deadly plague during a visit nearly 2 decades earlier.

1386
01:02:26.639 --> 01:02:28.800
Does he stab anyone?

1387
01:02:28.860 --> 01:02:32.099
I mean, jam has given it 2.5 stars out of four.

1388
01:02:32.159 --> 01:02:34.320
I don't have any...

1389
01:02:34.380 --> 01:02:36.900
It's worth it.

1390
01:02:36.960 --> 01:02:37.800
It could be anything.

1391
01:02:37.860 --> 01:02:39.599
Well, I'm gonna give it another go.

1392
01:02:39.659 --> 01:02:40.619
Yeah, why not?

1393
01:02:40.679 --> 01:02:40.980
Yeah.

1394
01:02:41.579 --> 01:02:43.320
Oh, okay.

1395
01:02:43.380 --> 01:02:48.059
I've heard of this one Series one, episode 15 The Eye of the

1396
01:02:48.059 --> 01:02:48.659
Beholder.

1397
01:02:49.199 --> 01:02:54.059
The Enterprise investigates the mysterious disappearance of a

1398
01:02:54.059 --> 01:02:56.340
science team on a mysterious world.

1399
01:02:57.539 --> 01:03:01.739
Is the word mysterious used twice in that summary?

1400
01:03:01.800 --> 01:03:03.659
No, I just used it once.

1401
01:03:03.719 --> 01:03:04.679
Oh, okay.

1402
01:03:04.739 --> 01:03:06.360
It's just once.

1403
01:03:06.420 --> 01:03:09.420
Okay. a bit disappointing.

1404
01:03:09.480 --> 01:03:12.000
Two stars by Gemma.

1405
01:03:12.059 --> 01:03:14.099
Again, it could be anything.

1406
01:03:14.159 --> 01:03:15.659
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1407
01:03:15.719 --> 01:03:18.599
Spock and the script go to great lengths to explain how advanced

1408
01:03:18.599 --> 01:03:20.460
and superintelligent these aliens are.

1409
01:03:20.519 --> 01:03:21.659
Pressing once more.

1410
01:03:21.719 --> 01:03:22.019
Come on.

1411
01:03:22.079 --> 01:03:25.559
That sounds like any random Star Trek episode that, doesn't it?

1412
01:03:25.619 --> 01:03:28.260
Okay, this is the one we're definitely doing.

1413
01:03:28.320 --> 01:03:30.659
So this is Bem.

1414
01:03:30.659 --> 01:03:33.840
And it's series 2, episode two.

1415
01:03:33.900 --> 01:03:40.199
And you remember that we had that episode of Lower Decks.

1416
01:03:40.260 --> 01:03:45.599
I excretus, where the alien came on. that could disembody

1417
01:03:45.599 --> 01:03:45.960
himself.

1418
01:03:46.019 --> 01:03:47.280
There was a lady.

1419
01:03:47.340 --> 01:03:50.760
No, it was a lady and she had a detachable head and detachable

1420
01:03:50.760 --> 01:03:51.360
other beards.

1421
01:03:51.420 --> 01:03:56.219
And she was brought back, obviously, by the lower decks people who

1422
01:03:56.219 --> 01:03:59.400
like to make fun of our ridiculous Star Trek ears.

1423
01:03:59.400 --> 01:04:02.039
And I have actually seen this one.

1424
01:04:03.119 --> 01:04:05.039
No, it's terrible.

1425
01:04:05.579 --> 01:04:07.559
They're all terrible.

1426
01:04:07.619 --> 01:04:15.539
But I've watched this one as research when we did an eye excretus

1427
01:04:15.539 --> 01:04:17.280
so I have actually seen this.

1428
01:04:17.400 --> 01:04:19.079
Can I read you the summary of this one, right?

1429
01:04:19.139 --> 01:04:21.599
This literally could be any Star Trek episode.

1430
01:04:21.659 --> 01:04:22.800
Any Star Trek episode?

1431
01:04:22.860 --> 01:04:25.739
The Enterprise takes on an independent observer from an alien

1432
01:04:25.739 --> 01:04:29.280
world who insists on accompanying the landing party on a research

1433
01:04:29.280 --> 01:04:31.920
mission of a primitive alien civilisation.

1434
01:04:32.639 --> 01:04:34.079
Yep.

1435
01:04:34.139 --> 01:04:36.960
We've seen that in every iteration of Star Trek.

1436
01:04:37.019 --> 01:04:40.260
So now we're going to see a really bad iteration of it.

1437
01:04:40.320 --> 01:04:42.480
So it's bam.

1438
01:04:42.539 --> 01:04:46.559
I want to know if William Shatner's still literally phoning in his

1439
01:04:46.559 --> 01:04:47.880
performance as Captain Kirk.

1440
01:04:47.940 --> 01:04:50.219
I'm sure he is, from the green room of something else completely.

1441
01:04:50.280 --> 01:04:55.320
And those fantastic sort of off kilter angle close-ups that they

1442
01:04:55.320 --> 01:04:57.840
do, just so they don't have to animate anything else on the

1443
01:04:57.840 --> 01:04:58.019
screen.

1444
01:04:58.079 --> 01:04:59.159
Yeah.

1445
01:04:59.159 --> 01:04:59.760
Yeah.

1446
01:04:59.820 --> 01:05:01.019
All right.

1447
01:05:01.079 --> 01:05:02.579
I think we're ready to go. do you think?

1448
01:05:02.639 --> 01:05:04.380
Oh, it's going to be a giggle.

1449
01:05:11.039 --> 01:05:15.059
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1450
01:05:15.059 --> 01:05:16.199
and Nathan Bottomley.

1451
01:05:16.260 --> 01:05:19.679
We're online at untitled Star Trekproject.com, where you can find

1452
01:05:19.679 --> 01:05:22.679
links to our Twitter, Mastodon, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

1453
01:05:22.739 --> 01:05:26.400
Our podcast artworkers by Kayla Sizeran, and the theme was

1454
01:05:26.400 --> 01:05:28.139
composed by Cameron Lamb.

1455
01:05:28.199 --> 01:05:32.820
This episode was recorded on the 11th of July 2023 and released on

1456
01:05:32.820 --> 01:05:33.960
the 14th of July.

1457
01:05:34.019 --> 01:05:57.900
We'll see you next time for Star Trek, the animated series M. We

1458
01:05:57.900 --> 01:05:59.579
just laughed all the way through.

1459
01:05:59.639 --> 01:06:00.659
It's so much fun.

1460
01:06:00.719 --> 01:06:01.559
It's so good.

1461
01:06:01.619 --> 01:06:02.460
It's so good.

1462
01:06:02.579 --> 01:06:06.119
He listens to our DS9 episodes, you know, he absolutely loves

1463
01:06:06.119 --> 01:06:06.360
them.

1464
01:06:06.420 --> 01:06:07.139
You see?

1465
01:06:07.199 --> 01:06:08.699
The only Star Trek you really like.

1466
01:06:08.760 --> 01:06:09.900
You don't really like much of the rest.

1467
01:06:09.960 --> 01:06:13.679
But I think that, I mean, that was perfect.

1468
01:06:13.800 --> 01:06:17.820
I mean, you know, like, again, it's not a thing that other Star

1469
01:06:17.820 --> 01:06:18.599
Trek can do.

1470
01:06:18.659 --> 01:06:22.260
It's not anything that anyone attempts, but geez, it's fun.

1471
01:06:22.320 --> 01:06:23.519
And it is that sort of thing.

1472
01:06:23.519 --> 01:06:27.360
We have enough characters to do a proper full scale daytime soap

1473
01:06:27.360 --> 01:06:27.900
opera.

1474
01:06:27.900 --> 01:06:32.460
And that's how we can present like in that kind of mode in that

1475
01:06:32.460 --> 01:06:33.659
genre.

1476
01:06:33.719 --> 01:06:37.260
We're going to massively change the status quo, because we've got

1477
01:06:37.260 --> 01:06:40.199
this big thing that's happening that we have to bring to an end.

1478
01:06:40.199 --> 01:06:45.420
And either what we do is what's impossible, you know, we do a

1479
01:06:45.420 --> 01:06:49.860
Damar episode, we do a, a Kai-win episode, we do, you know, a

1480
01:06:49.860 --> 01:06:51.300
Gower on episode and so on.

1481
01:06:51.420 --> 01:06:52.440
They can't do that.

1482
01:06:52.500 --> 01:06:57.840
Um, because deep space 9 episodes happen one after the other, you

1483
01:06:57.840 --> 01:07:00.659
know, like they couldn't do different events from different points

1484
01:07:00.659 --> 01:07:01.079
of view.

1485
01:07:01.079 --> 01:07:05.760
And you have to have everyone being given a go, like all of the

1486
01:07:05.760 --> 01:07:06.539
main characters.

1487
01:07:06.599 --> 01:07:08.820
So I just think it has to be done. them all together.

1488
01:07:08.880 --> 01:07:12.239
It means structurally. so much more interesting to talk about.

1489
01:07:12.300 --> 01:07:16.320
Yeah, because it's, yeah, yeah, because it's like, but it's

1490
01:07:16.320 --> 01:07:19.739
exactly what like last night's home and away, dude, as well.

1491
01:07:19.800 --> 01:07:22.739
Like, that I was sat on the couch watching with Calvin, you know

1492
01:07:22.739 --> 01:07:26.280
that now we're going to do the band plot and now we're going to do

1493
01:07:26.280 --> 01:07:28.559
the kid plot and, you know, like all of that.

1494
01:07:28.860 --> 01:07:31.320
It's a soap bonus.

1495
01:07:31.380 --> 01:07:32.039
It's a soap.

1496
01:07:32.099 --> 01:07:33.599
Yeah, soaps are great though.

1497
01:07:33.719 --> 01:07:34.619
Good soap.

1498
01:07:34.679 --> 01:07:36.000
With really good actors.

1499
01:07:36.059 --> 01:07:37.860
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1500
01:07:37.920 --> 01:07:38.820
But that's the thing.

1501
01:07:38.880 --> 01:07:42.900
And it is Louise Lecher in a daytime soap popper up where she gets

1502
01:07:42.900 --> 01:07:43.559
to stab someone.

1503
01:07:43.619 --> 01:07:47.760
As you keep saying to me, Oscar winner, Louise Fletcher.

1504
01:07:47.820 --> 01:07:49.679
Yeah, yeah, yeah. holy shit.

1505
01:07:49.739 --> 01:07:53.159
Well, she, like, that thing about her being untouchable that I

1506
01:07:53.159 --> 01:07:55.500
said, like, that's what Nurse Ratchet is like.

1507
01:07:55.559 --> 01:07:56.219
Do you know what I mean?

1508
01:07:56.280 --> 01:07:59.039
Like Nurse Ratchet, like you hate her.

1509
01:07:59.099 --> 01:08:00.659
She's horrible.

1510
01:08:00.719 --> 01:08:05.940
She's really super evil and she's absolutely... can touch her.

1511
01:08:06.000 --> 01:08:09.000
And so this is the perfect character for the religious leader

1512
01:08:09.000 --> 01:08:14.820
because she still, you know, does the sort of superficial looking

1513
01:08:14.820 --> 01:08:20.340
caring and, you know, mild and, you know, she doesn't get angry

1514
01:08:20.340 --> 01:08:22.920
and public and any of those sorts of things.

1515
01:08:22.979 --> 01:08:26.760
You know, everything's very bland and she's very pious and stuff

1516
01:08:26.760 --> 01:08:30.600
but she's like super, super evil and you hate her and nothing bad

1517
01:08:30.600 --> 01:08:31.739
ever happens to her.

1518
01:08:31.859 --> 01:08:35.100
And, uh, so I'm moaning to you recently.

1519
01:08:35.159 --> 01:08:37.439
I was like, we've not done anything with Kai winning it yet.

1520
01:08:37.500 --> 01:08:40.079
She's so great whenever she appears.

1521
01:08:40.140 --> 01:08:42.720
See, I just assumed that we had because we did that in the cards

1522
01:08:42.720 --> 01:08:46.979
episode that, um, and it is, it's the four, you know.

1523
01:08:47.039 --> 01:08:50.159
It's Win, Dukart, Wei Yun, Garak.

1524
01:08:50.220 --> 01:08:51.960
I'm just guaranteed a good time.

1525
01:08:52.020 --> 01:08:53.939
Yeah, the episode is.

1526
01:08:54.000 --> 01:08:55.979
Yeah, they're all good, aren't they, Garrick, in that one?

1527
01:08:56.039 --> 01:08:58.979
Yeah, no, no, he gets loads coming up, though.

1528
01:08:59.039 --> 01:08:59.399
Okay.

1529
01:08:59.460 --> 01:08:59.880
Cool.

1530
01:08:59.939 --> 01:09:00.779
All right.

1531
01:09:00.840 --> 01:09:02.819
Okay, so I've got to...

1532
01:09:02.880 --> 01:09:04.079
I've got to go somewhere, have I?

1533
01:09:04.199 --> 01:09:06.119
No, go.

1534
01:09:06.239 --> 01:09:10.680
I've just sent you something in the Facebook chat.

1535
01:09:13.739 --> 01:09:17.880
Oh, wow, is this the percentage of episodes that we've done of the

1536
01:09:17.880 --> 01:09:18.899
respective shows?

1537
01:09:18.960 --> 01:09:20.699
Yeah, it's the most sense.

1538
01:09:20.760 --> 01:09:22.199
Strange new worlds.

1539
01:09:22.260 --> 01:09:23.159
20%.

1540
01:09:23.340 --> 01:09:28.020
That's only if we count this week's episode because this week, the

1541
01:09:28.020 --> 01:09:31.920
one that screened like screens on Thursday, which is the day

1542
01:09:31.920 --> 01:09:33.300
before we release this.

1543
01:09:33.359 --> 01:09:34.560
That makes it 15.

1544
01:09:34.859 --> 01:09:37.619
So we've done 20%. coming in as the tag, Nathan.

1545
01:09:37.680 --> 01:09:40.859
I would like to let everybody know that you could listen to us for

1546
01:09:40.859 --> 01:09:45.840
3 days, 12 hours, 37 minutes, and 6.623 seconds.

1547
01:09:45.899 --> 01:09:48.420
Not counting the episode you're listening to now.

1548
01:09:48.420 --> 01:09:50.460
Even more of us.

1549
01:09:51.420 --> 01:09:51.600
Yeah.

1550
01:09:51.659 --> 01:09:53.460
What's the 2nd nice?

1551
01:09:53.460 --> 01:09:54.239
Let's have a look here.

1552
01:09:54.300 --> 01:09:55.439
So the 2nd half...

1553
01:09:55.439 --> 01:09:56.640
I thought it would be DS 9.

1554
01:09:56.699 --> 01:09:57.899
It's not. lower decks.

1555
01:09:57.960 --> 01:09:59.220
Is it?

1556
01:09:59.220 --> 01:10:00.119
Yeah.

1557
01:10:00.180 --> 01:10:02.279
No, lower decks is the next one.

1558
01:10:02.340 --> 01:10:03.239
I think.

1559
01:10:03.239 --> 01:10:04.380
Where's Zardex coming?

1560
01:10:04.439 --> 01:10:06.479
Lodex is 16.67%.

1561
01:10:06.539 --> 01:10:10.319
Then it's prodigy, which is only, well, there's only one season of

1562
01:10:10.319 --> 01:10:10.560
that.

1563
01:10:10.619 --> 01:10:14.819
Yeah, 20 episodes, so 1912 parter.

1564
01:10:14.880 --> 01:10:16.560
So we've done 15%.

1565
01:10:16.619 --> 01:10:26.399
But the 2 lowest ones are the animated series at 4.55%, because

1566
01:10:26.399 --> 01:10:30.300
we've done one out of 22 episodes, and Star Trek, the Next

1567
01:10:30.300 --> 01:10:30.840
Generation.

1568
01:10:30.899 --> 01:10:35.579
So roughly, we're looking at 10% overall, I think, probably

1569
01:10:35.579 --> 01:10:36.539
roughly Star Trek.

1570
01:10:36.600 --> 01:10:38.819
I feel like we've talked about loads of TNG.

1571
01:10:38.880 --> 01:10:39.899
How unusual?

1572
01:10:39.960 --> 01:10:44.880
Yeah, we've only done 12, but we've done 18 Deep Space 9.

1573
01:10:44.939 --> 01:10:45.899
And of the 12.

1574
01:10:45.899 --> 01:10:46.920
This is really good.

1575
01:10:46.979 --> 01:10:48.239
Yeah, that's right.

1576
01:10:48.359 --> 01:10:49.500
That's right.

1577
01:10:49.560 --> 01:10:52.800
I can't keep having episodes where I'm saying everything is shit.

1578
01:10:52.859 --> 01:10:54.600
Every now and again, I've got to say...

1579
01:10:54.659 --> 01:10:57.060
Yeah, we're going to have like, why are we doing a Star Trek

1580
01:10:57.060 --> 01:10:57.300
thing?

1581
01:10:57.359 --> 01:11:01.619
So in order to solve the Star Trek is a really good problem, we're

1582
01:11:01.619 --> 01:11:03.000
going to do, I'll tell you.

1583
01:11:03.180 --> 01:11:10.260
So we've reached the end of the episode and now it's time for us

1584
01:11:10.260 --> 01:11:12.479
to decide what we're going to watch next week.