WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 21:44:13

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, we are now back in Star Trek Voyager, and we're in a period of

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Star Trek Voyager that I think both of us generally like, which is

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kind of the 1st 2 seasons, both of us generally like, nobody else

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does.

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No, that's true.

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And certainly the people who take over.

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I think most people think that Star Trek Voyager didn't start

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until season four.

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Okay.

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When Jerry Ryan joined, but I think most people sort of think of

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this sort of Kazon Cesca period as best forgotten.

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Whereas I think this is the sort of the rare times when Voyager

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actually glimpses at achieving its potential.

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Yeah.

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So this is season two, episode 14, and its alliances, and we've

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already done the episode that sort of outs Cesca, as a Cardassian

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and that introduces March Colour.

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Uh, I don't think so.

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I don't think colour comes along till season two.

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She beams off the ship at the end of the episode, doesn't she?

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Oh, no, is that the one where she goes?

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I don't like bullies and I don't like you.

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Oh, okay, maybe it wasn't.

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Yeah.

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Did you know right?

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He was supposed to be written out in this episode.

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Originally, this assassination attempt at the end.

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It was very...

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And it was going to be like, of course, going to be the big sort

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of dramatic twist at the end.

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And he went to Jerry Taylor and said, look, now you've written

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this.

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I'm just dead on the floor.

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He goes, Carmen, you had me twitching in agony or something like

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that, you know, like I want a big scene to go out on.

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I've given you, you know, a season and a half for me.

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And she went, don't worry, we like you so much.

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We've rewritten it.

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You're staying in the show.

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So he was doing something right that they were noticing.

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And so this is kind of leading up to a sort of half season that is

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going to prepare us for basics, which is the series 2 Cliffhanger

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which is pretty good.

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I think.

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It's what you say, it's the, I think it's the only time Voyager

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does what you said to me before, and that is, it's a threat to the

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premise of the show, is that they're all booted off Voyager, and

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how can you Voyager without Voyager?

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It's a great cliffhanger.

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Yeah, it is really good, I think.

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And perhaps the resolution is not too bad either.

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You know, and it's Voyager's 1st cliffhanger because they kind of

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did whatever the hell it was.

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They did at the end of series one last time, the 37s.

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Hopefully convinced as well that Marfa Hackett's Cesca is the best

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villain, that Voyager ever had, that way she sort of purrs like a

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soap opera villain.

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Hello, Chacone, you know, every time she comes.

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I mean, there's nothing subtle about her at all.

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The one where she pops up with the baby, you know, the pregnant

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stomach.

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I'm having your baby chickle day.

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And they tried.

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I think they did try with the ball queen in later seasons to have

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like a big villain, but because she's sort of so cold.

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It's nowhere near as fun.

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No.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, see, this was kind of fun.

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This was a version of Voyager that had more than 7 people on board

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the ship and that seemed to be happening in a sort of world where

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there were other people that they knew and stuff.

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And I guess most people have a problem in that that sort of

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stretches plausibility.

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And I think there is one moment here where I kind of tend to agree

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with them.

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But it's kind of fun to have a series of episodes leading up to a

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sort of big giant cliffhanger.

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The episodes in themselves are pretty great.

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This is a this is good.

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I think this is flawed.

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I think there are some pretty serious problems with it.

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But it's so enjoyable, I think.

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I think the pilot, caretaker.

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I promised 2 things.

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It promised 2 crews and some tension between those 2 crews.

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And we got them for a couple of episodes.

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And then somewhere in the middle of season one, they just forgot

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about it and everyone was getting on happy as Larry until this

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point.

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And we remember it again for a single episode and then that's it.

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We're all Federation all the way because Jayway makes a fabulous

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speech at the end to remind us why the rules of the Federation are

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the best allies we can have, you know?

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Or something.

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But the other thing it promised was this sort of overarching story

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with the Kazon, which we only touched upon.

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We had state of flux.

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There's the one with Aaron Eisenberg Carr.

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There's manoeuvres and then there's this initiations.

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Yeah.

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Initiations?

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sort of a season and a half .

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That's only 4 episodes, you know.

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And I said to you off, Mike, if this was DS9, the events that take

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place in alliances would be spread across like half a season.

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And we would see this playing out in a much more interesting way.

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What you've got is sort of a condensed development of that plot

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within this episode and then we can forget all about it for a

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couple of episodes and, you know, do some more TNG knockoffs.

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We've got threshold next week.

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That's right.

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We missed it just by one.

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What's interesting, what is that Jerry Taylor did the teleplay for

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this?

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Yeah.

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And I think that it's a story by Michael Piller, but teleplate by

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Jerry Taylor, and this is exactly what she didn't want for the

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show.

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She didn't want arcs, she didn't want secondary characters.

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She wanted, you know, standalone episodes, just like TNG, sort of

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fun romps, which is what we got when she took over in series

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three.

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I think it's so interesting that one of the better examples of an

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ongoing narrative episode is written by Jerry Taylor, and it's

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good.

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Yeah.

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I think it's such a shame that I love the fact that there was a

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strong female voice. in the Voyager writing stuff.

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Yeah.

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I don't think it's a shame.

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I don't really agree with a lot of the decisions that she made.

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Yeah.

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Well, what do you think?

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Should we go in?

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Let's see what she's got to offer.

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Yeah.

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All right.

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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

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So this is a bit of a cheat, isn't it?

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This is what you were talking about, I think.

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So we start with the ship being attacked by the Kazon and

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apparently it's been going on for a long time.

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Uh, and obviously it started after um, prototype or whatever

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happened last week and it's been going on for a bit.

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So this is a new kind of premise in a way.

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This is them being hammered by the Kazon, kind of more or less all

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the time.

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Janeway's got her crisis. is in such disarray, things I've got

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that they are in trouble.

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But do you remember I told you, the 1st half on series 2, they, the

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writers all looked at each other and said, this isn't working.

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Like, we need to up our game here.

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And from manoeuvres onwards, they did try and inject more action

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and yeah, a bit more urgency into the story.

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And this is a good example of that, opening an episode with an

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exciting wig and all around the ship. everyone's sort of in crisis

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mode.

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Yeah, it's not bad.

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I mean, you know, like it's it's reasonably good, I think.

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A lot of people shouting, lots of low light, you know, the camera

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juttering, all of that.

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Oh, some...

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Plenty of dry ice spitting out of every single console. that's

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right Oh no.

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Don't give Tom Parrot's prices lines.

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I'll wait.

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Chivalk, we've sustained massive damage.

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That's his line for the episode.

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There we go.

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That's Tuvok.

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In fact, TikTok does get a scene in this, which is super weird.

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Oh my god. brilliant Star Trek metaphor scenes, isn't it?

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Oh my god.

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She should have just Vulcan Orchid.

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Wait till we get there.

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It's so bad It's so bad.

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Do you notice they're doing a bit of handheld camera work as

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well?

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Yeah, yeah.

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To give it a bit of drama.

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Oh, dear.

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So one of the marquee crew members has been is now dead.

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Yeah, would you say that we've been across to Belana?

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We just went, shoot straight across the thing.

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Whipan, there's B'lana.

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She actually does a reasonable reaction.

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Um, I think to that.

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So, so here's the argument now.

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Okay, so this guy's dead.

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I actually quite like, you know, her reaction and all of that sort

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of thing.

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And, and we get the idea that there's more than one person on the

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ship, which we did with state of flux as well, where, you know

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they had friends that Cesca and Chakotay had been friends with

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other members of the crew and stuff.

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Although, you know, Kruber and Bandera, who saved Chakotay's life

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has never been seen before or, you know, is his absolute best

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friend of the marquis we've never seen before.

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Yeah.

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I can't even notice her hair is immaculate now.

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She, she, she let him in.

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She's like, hang on.

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I'm just doing my hair.

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I think early Chakotay, they made some effort to make him quite

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interesting.

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Like I'm not talking about the Native American stuff.

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I'm talking about him sort of straddling between the Federation

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and the Marquis.

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There's one great scene in learning curve where you've got a

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couple of marquee crew members bitching about the way Janeway's

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running the ship and he goes, well, you want to do it the way the

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marquee do it.

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He's like, yeah, and he just punches him straight in the face.

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He says, that's how we used to do it.

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But once they abandon this whole sort of tension thing between the

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2 crews, Chicoto is very boring after that.

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Yes, yeah.

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Yeah, he checks out, I think.

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I think, don't you think?

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Robert checks out and isn't being given any interesting material

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and we've all realised long ago that casting him as a Native

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American is a problem and we probably shouldn't bring it up all

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that often because it's a bit embarrassing.

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Can we talk about Jane Way, please?

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Because I think this is a problematic episode for one of our

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favourite captains who, as I said to you, comes across as both

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very stubborn and extremely naive.

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Yeah, which is a hell of a fate to pull off.

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I think she also comes across as incredibly racist and we'll get

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there.

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I want to hear your reading on this.

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Is it because she takes, you know, she makes friends with the

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supremacists.

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Yeah, essentially.

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So she's terrible.

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So what's so what kind of happens here is apparently Starfleet

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doesn't allow them to have alliances with warp capable

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civilisations or something.

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They're not allowed to make alliances and that's Starfleet rules.

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And I don't know why that Starfleet rules and where that comes

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from.

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Well, that's the whole point of the Federation, isn't it?

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is to...

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Yeah, I mean...

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Exactly.

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I mean, you think, because this happens so often now, we're sort

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of into our full Star Trek series.

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I mean, and there's a many an episode where a ship's been flung

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off into space or a space station's been sent off to another

253
00:11:31.919 --> 00:11:35.279
quadrant or whatever, that there would be a caveat in the prime

254
00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:37.980
predirective by this point that says, look, if you're in a region

255
00:11:37.980 --> 00:11:40.500
of space and you're on your own, you can make some friends.

256
00:11:40.860 --> 00:11:43.740
But it just seems, it seems ridiculous.

257
00:11:43.799 --> 00:11:49.620
It's not, so it's a version of Starfleet that we need to have for

258
00:11:49.620 --> 00:11:52.799
this episode to be about something.

259
00:11:52.860 --> 00:11:56.159
And then we learn a valuable lesson that we can't make alliances

260
00:11:56.159 --> 00:11:56.879
with people.

261
00:11:56.879 --> 00:11:58.860
And like that's crap.

262
00:11:58.919 --> 00:11:59.759
What is that?

263
00:11:59.820 --> 00:12:03.120
One is exactly the sort of thing that she was saying to Seska in

264
00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:04.200
state of flux, isn't it?

265
00:12:04.259 --> 00:12:07.019
is that no, we're not allowing ourselves with these people.

266
00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:11.820
But it is a weird stubbornness because calm series 7 in the void

267
00:12:11.820 --> 00:12:12.840
that we talked about.

268
00:12:12.899 --> 00:12:13.620
Yeah.

269
00:12:13.679 --> 00:12:17.639
She's like, well, look, we're trapped in this region of space, you

270
00:12:17.639 --> 00:12:21.299
know, away from the Delta Quadron. start making alliances with

271
00:12:21.299 --> 00:12:21.480
people.

272
00:12:21.539 --> 00:12:22.620
Yeah, yeah.

273
00:12:22.679 --> 00:12:24.240
I thought, are you taking the piss?

274
00:12:24.299 --> 00:12:28.860
Because the void is just a microcosm of Voyager.

275
00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:30.539
It's like Voyager within Voyager.

276
00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:33.720
In a single episode. showing what they should have done with the

277
00:12:33.720 --> 00:12:34.799
entire episode. right.

278
00:12:34.860 --> 00:12:36.960
And so it makes no sense.

279
00:12:37.019 --> 00:12:40.080
The whole thing that she's saying, we can't make alliances with

280
00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:42.179
people because what?

281
00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:44.759
There's a rule about it, which has never been mentioned before.

282
00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:52.200
Oh, can I just say that this fucking story, the crewman's funeral

283
00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:56.159
is such tedious Star Trek crap.

284
00:12:56.220 --> 00:12:58.379
I thought you love these backstories for one.

285
00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:03.179
Yeah, yeah, good story, Robert.

286
00:13:04.860 --> 00:13:08.039
He was my friend from that moment time.

287
00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:11.940
And he kept on fighting the good fight, Nathan.

288
00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:13.799
It's so cheesy.

289
00:13:13.860 --> 00:13:16.919
Look at the way Jane Wayne's looking at him with such a, oh, what

290
00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:17.940
a fascinating story.

291
00:13:20.820 --> 00:13:26.039
A bit of a reaction from Roxanne, who is, after all, very good.

292
00:13:26.580 --> 00:13:28.440
Yeah, yeah.

293
00:13:28.500 --> 00:13:31.679
I've got a quote here, you know, from Simon Billick, who plays

294
00:13:31.679 --> 00:13:34.799
Crewman Hogan, the man with the incredible eyes.

295
00:13:34.860 --> 00:13:37.139
Yeah, doesn't he have incredible eyes?

296
00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:38.399
Is he a bait, is it?

297
00:13:38.460 --> 00:13:39.179
don't know.

298
00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:41.220
It's that same sort of black eyes, isn't it?

299
00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:42.720
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, debates sense.

300
00:13:42.779 --> 00:13:45.899
He says everybody there made me feel extremely comfortable

301
00:13:45.899 --> 00:13:46.679
including the director.

302
00:13:46.740 --> 00:13:50.220
My 1st day ended up going so well that I almost didn't get any

303
00:13:50.220 --> 00:13:52.860
sleep that night because I wanted so badly to go back the next day

304
00:13:52.860 --> 00:13:55.559
and do my scene, my 1st scene with Kate Mulgrew.

305
00:13:55.620 --> 00:13:58.620
She gave me a bit of advice while I was doing my scene with her.

306
00:13:58.679 --> 00:14:01.860
I was a little worried because it was so confrontational, but Kate

307
00:14:01.860 --> 00:14:04.139
sort of hinted that what I was doing was okay.

308
00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:07.500
She put her hand on my shoulder and said, I want you to go for it

309
00:14:07.500 --> 00:14:07.799
again.

310
00:14:07.860 --> 00:14:09.419
But further.

311
00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:12.299
And that's why we get the scene that we get here, the where he's

312
00:14:12.299 --> 00:14:12.840
really angry.

313
00:14:13.620 --> 00:14:17.100
I'm wondering if Margaret was a bit of a presence, you know, people

314
00:14:17.100 --> 00:14:18.960
didn't want to, you know, go out.

315
00:14:19.019 --> 00:14:20.519
We were scared of her.

316
00:14:20.580 --> 00:14:27.600
So this introduces both Hogan and Jonas, and I don't know that

317
00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:29.159
we've had Jonas's name yet.

318
00:14:29.820 --> 00:14:31.139
Yeah.

319
00:14:31.259 --> 00:14:34.980
And the whole sort of Jonas subplot where he's contacting Seska in

320
00:14:34.980 --> 00:14:35.700
the case.

321
00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:39.179
Later, to be unearthed by an Elix is fabulous.

322
00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:42.059
Breakfast with Neelix TV show.

323
00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:43.919
Jesus Christ.

324
00:14:43.980 --> 00:14:45.240
What were I thinking?

325
00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:52.860
But this, like, I think that there has to be a better reason for

326
00:14:52.860 --> 00:14:55.259
not giving the case on what they want.

327
00:14:55.320 --> 00:15:02.340
And so she has good grounds not to trust the Kazon.

328
00:15:02.460 --> 00:15:06.539
You know, um, they're terrible for all sorts of reasons, you know

329
00:15:06.539 --> 00:15:10.919
they were going to kill the, the, a calm par, but that was the

330
00:15:10.919 --> 00:15:12.720
whole sort of purpose of the 1st episode.

331
00:15:12.779 --> 00:15:13.860
She's black and blue.

332
00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:15.120
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

333
00:15:15.179 --> 00:15:18.120
They've you know, they've stolen their technology before and tried

334
00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:18.659
to use it.

335
00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:20.159
So all of this.

336
00:15:20.220 --> 00:15:22.440
So why isn't it just they?

337
00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:26.039
It's not Starfleet says we can't have alliances.

338
00:15:26.100 --> 00:15:30.899
It's, it's her judgement, her personal judgement that the case

339
00:15:30.899 --> 00:15:32.460
will not be trusted.

340
00:15:32.519 --> 00:15:36.120
And that's reasonable given what's happened, I think.

341
00:15:36.179 --> 00:15:40.980
Can I ask you, look, why, why can't they have a democracy on the

342
00:15:40.980 --> 00:15:41.220
ship?

343
00:15:41.340 --> 00:15:45.659
I mean, nobody ever planned for this ship of people to be cut off

344
00:15:45.659 --> 00:15:46.320
from.

345
00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:50.100
So why can't there be a vote on whether to do things or not?

346
00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:53.820
Because I don't think the rules of the Federation work in the

347
00:15:53.820 --> 00:15:54.779
Delta Quadrant.

348
00:15:55.259 --> 00:15:58.740
But it depends on what the rules of the Federation are.

349
00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:01.860
If the rules are, you aren't allowed to make alliances with anyone

350
00:16:01.860 --> 00:16:05.279
at all and you just have to kind of make your own way through, then

351
00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:06.419
that's nonsense.

352
00:16:06.419 --> 00:16:07.980
Like, that's just ridiculous.

353
00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:10.799
You specify in one episode, you're not allowed to shift the

354
00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:12.779
balance of power or something like that.

355
00:16:12.840 --> 00:16:13.740
That's the line.

356
00:16:14.220 --> 00:16:18.299
But by being there, they are shifting the balance of power in the

357
00:16:18.299 --> 00:16:19.139
Delta Quadrant.

358
00:16:19.139 --> 00:16:20.700
Like, that's going to happen no matter what.

359
00:16:20.820 --> 00:16:24.659
But and the sharing technology thing is a sort of reasonable thing

360
00:16:24.659 --> 00:16:27.779
that's a thing that you can imagine them doing, oh, and now this

361
00:16:27.779 --> 00:16:28.019
right?

362
00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:34.019
So we have a backstory where Team Ross, where Tuvok is her old

363
00:16:34.019 --> 00:16:37.019
friend, and he's the most singular member.

364
00:16:37.139 --> 00:16:39.539
One of the best relationships in the show, I think, when they

365
00:16:39.539 --> 00:16:40.139
remember it.

366
00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:41.519
Yeah, yeah.

367
00:16:41.580 --> 00:16:43.019
So he, they're trying to do it.

368
00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:47.879
But like, why are they explaining to one another how often Janeway

369
00:16:47.879 --> 00:16:49.980
has come into 2 Fox quarters?

370
00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:51.539
What sort of conversation is that?

371
00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:52.740
And what like what?

372
00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:55.500
It's the worst kind of science fiction dialogue when 2 people

373
00:16:55.500 --> 00:16:57.179
explain something that they already know.

374
00:16:57.240 --> 00:16:58.740
It's so themselves.

375
00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:02.220
I mean, obviously, it's got our sakes, isn't it?

376
00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:05.880
But this is our particular problem in 90s straight. that DS9 thing

377
00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:07.799
of catching us up with the arc plots, you know.

378
00:17:07.859 --> 00:17:10.680
They are our greatest allies, you know?

379
00:17:11.220 --> 00:17:16.259
But it's also just a lack of faith in the audience. they can't

380
00:17:16.259 --> 00:17:21.180
think of lines that will sell that relationship without just

381
00:17:21.180 --> 00:17:26.460
saying out loud in words, what the relationship is, and they don't

382
00:17:26.460 --> 00:17:29.819
think we would understand any line like that if they were able to

383
00:17:29.819 --> 00:17:30.779
come up with it, I think.

384
00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:31.740
Well, as well.

385
00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:36.180
Is that of just tackling the problem that they have in front of

386
00:17:36.180 --> 00:17:36.359
them?

387
00:17:36.359 --> 00:17:40.619
He makes this shitty fucking metaphor about a plan where we're

388
00:17:40.619 --> 00:17:44.220
supposed to think, oh, that's such a clever way of explaining why

389
00:17:44.220 --> 00:17:45.299
you should make alliances.

390
00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:46.500
And they do this.

391
00:17:46.500 --> 00:17:48.599
And season 2, it is particularly bad.

392
00:17:48.660 --> 00:17:52.079
I don't think there's an episode goes by where someone hasn't got

393
00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:54.299
a problem and someone doesn't come in and go, you know, I once had

394
00:17:54.299 --> 00:17:57.240
a spaceship, you know, we funded on this other bit of technology

395
00:17:57.240 --> 00:17:58.859
and it really works out well.

396
00:17:58.980 --> 00:18:01.859
Fucking Mullerbok in the tree, isn't it?

397
00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:02.940
Like, it's that.

398
00:18:02.940 --> 00:18:03.720
But that was funny.

399
00:18:03.779 --> 00:18:07.680
Yeah, because they make fun of it, but it is a terrible, like, it

400
00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:08.220
was terrible.

401
00:18:08.819 --> 00:18:11.160
You just need mother box to come along.

402
00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:13.079
You're like, why are you telling a story about your orchids?

403
00:18:13.140 --> 00:18:15.000
Yeah, yeah, tell us that be awkward.

404
00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:18.299
Instead it's so serious.

405
00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:20.819
She goes, what a great point you made there, you know.

406
00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:24.960
And then there's another thing here too.

407
00:18:25.019 --> 00:18:26.819
That is kind of interesting, I think.

408
00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:29.279
And I did read a little bit about this because I was trying to

409
00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:33.000
work out what they were thinking when the Kazon come along because

410
00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:37.019
I think that there's something that's very clearly hinted at in

411
00:18:37.019 --> 00:18:37.980
this episode.

412
00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:42.000
But before the tribe, on the scene, what were they trying to do?

413
00:18:42.059 --> 00:18:45.180
And I think they wanted them to be like New York gangs.

414
00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:46.920
You know, yeah.

415
00:18:46.980 --> 00:18:49.140
Well, they were trying...

416
00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:51.660
I think they just came across a subpar Klingons, didn't they?

417
00:18:51.660 --> 00:18:52.140
ultimately.

418
00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:53.400
And especially because of their look.

419
00:18:53.460 --> 00:18:55.019
Yeah, the look.

420
00:18:55.079 --> 00:18:56.819
I don't know why what they were thinking.

421
00:18:56.880 --> 00:18:59.880
I mean, there's a fairly limited range of things of what, you know

422
00:18:59.880 --> 00:19:02.339
they can achieve with the makeup and whatever, but they just look

423
00:19:02.339 --> 00:19:04.200
like clons, like just far.

424
00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:07.140
You want to go for that sort of gang, gang thing.

425
00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:09.000
It's got to be a bit vicious, doesn't it?

426
00:19:09.059 --> 00:19:11.160
And a bit nasty. cool.

427
00:19:11.220 --> 00:19:16.500
So originally the plan was to cast young people as the Kazon

428
00:19:16.500 --> 00:19:21.779
because if you think about it, in some, you know, that that when

429
00:19:21.779 --> 00:19:26.880
people are younger, that's when they're, you know, doing violence

430
00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:29.759
and being difficult and all of that sort of thing.

431
00:19:29.819 --> 00:19:33.180
Like and having young people and making them somewhat vulnerable

432
00:19:33.180 --> 00:19:35.640
and stuff like that, that that might have been they can break out

433
00:19:35.640 --> 00:19:37.740
of their usual sort of casting, can they?

434
00:19:37.799 --> 00:19:39.720
So they bring in the fellow who plays marsh colour.

435
00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:40.740
And don't worry, it's great.

436
00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:42.779
But he's a bit camp, isn't he?

437
00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:44.099
And a bit theatrical.

438
00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:45.000
And that's why we love him.

439
00:19:45.059 --> 00:19:46.380
Yeah, exactly.

440
00:19:46.380 --> 00:19:47.940
He's not a gang lead, is he?

441
00:19:48.059 --> 00:19:48.720
No.

442
00:19:48.779 --> 00:19:51.599
And then when they do bring in a kid, it's Aaron Eisenberg.

443
00:19:51.660 --> 00:19:52.380
And again, he's good.

444
00:19:52.500 --> 00:19:56.099
Yeah, but that's also an episode about being a kid, you know, like

445
00:19:56.099 --> 00:19:57.660
if they had all been younger.

446
00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:00.480
If they'd been like sort of child soldiers or something like

447
00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:00.720
that.

448
00:20:00.839 --> 00:20:02.039
Yeah.

449
00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:06.180
But there's still something racialized about the conception.

450
00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:12.000
So Romulans and Klingons are, that's a Cold War thing, isn't it?

451
00:20:12.119 --> 00:20:13.500
Like in the 60s.

452
00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:17.039
We had the Klingons in Star Trek, the Next Generation.

453
00:20:17.099 --> 00:20:21.240
We had the Romulans, and that was a Cold War, kind of type of

454
00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:21.900
politics.

455
00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:26.039
And then the Cardassians and the Majorans come along and it's a

456
00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:29.220
little bit messier and a little bit more regional, and a little

457
00:20:29.220 --> 00:20:33.059
bit more like, you know, how political issues play out on the

458
00:20:33.059 --> 00:20:36.839
world stage now that it's not just 2 giant power blocks.

459
00:20:36.900 --> 00:20:40.259
It's, you know, conflicts that are much more local.

460
00:20:40.380 --> 00:20:48.119
Now, here, um, if you're going to do gangs, like criminal gangs

461
00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:50.940
there's something uncomfortably racialized about that.

462
00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:53.640
I think, isn't it?

463
00:20:53.700 --> 00:20:54.839
Or is it just me?

464
00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:56.099
Do I not know enough about?

465
00:20:56.220 --> 00:20:57.960
Star Trek is above that, though.

466
00:20:58.019 --> 00:21:01.500
No, I think inadvertently they would do that.

467
00:21:01.559 --> 00:21:07.440
But I think that they end up, what they end up doing here, by

468
00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:12.000
introducing the trade, is making it South Africa.

469
00:21:12.059 --> 00:21:15.240
Yeah, and it's kind of explicit as well, isn't it?

470
00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:16.319
Oh, why?

471
00:21:16.380 --> 00:21:18.960
Well, and that's it.

472
00:21:19.019 --> 00:21:22.019
And so even the white actors who play.

473
00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:28.140
So we're going to have a black guy playing a Kazon who is

474
00:21:28.140 --> 00:21:30.660
communicating with Jonas.

475
00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:32.279
Oh, look who's here.

476
00:21:32.339 --> 00:21:34.200
But even the white guy.

477
00:21:34.259 --> 00:21:35.640
Yeah, yeah.

478
00:21:36.359 --> 00:21:43.740
So even Anthony DeLongus here who plays colour. is wide, but he's

479
00:21:43.740 --> 00:21:47.759
you know, made uh, sort of copper coloured.

480
00:21:47.819 --> 00:21:49.980
Do you know what this reminds me of, right?

481
00:21:50.099 --> 00:21:51.720
Bodger never really does it?

482
00:21:51.779 --> 00:21:53.160
Because I don't have interest in villains.

483
00:21:53.220 --> 00:21:55.079
And except here.

484
00:21:55.140 --> 00:21:58.019
You remember those scenes between like Wayun and Damar, where one

485
00:21:58.019 --> 00:22:00.660
of them's talking on the screen and the other one's looking a bit

486
00:22:00.660 --> 00:22:02.460
shifty or sort of giving in the eye.

487
00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:04.799
I love this stuff.

488
00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:05.339
I love it.

489
00:22:05.400 --> 00:22:07.559
And we have a scene with the 2 of them.

490
00:22:07.619 --> 00:22:10.319
Ordinarily, you would have to have one of the Voyager regulars, but

491
00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:12.359
it's enough to have colour or Cesca.

492
00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:15.839
That Michael Pillar thing of giving us scenes from the villas

493
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:18.180
points of view. which makes it so much more interesting.

494
00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:20.460
So here's the dumb thing.

495
00:22:20.519 --> 00:22:24.359
So we 1st we 1st met colour a year ago.

496
00:22:24.420 --> 00:22:27.960
They've been travelling back to the alpha, the alpha quadrant for

497
00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:28.319
a year.

498
00:22:28.380 --> 00:22:30.180
Yeah, it's baffling, isn't it?

499
00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:33.000
Well, how have they not, we can meet in 20 hours?

500
00:22:34.740 --> 00:22:37.559
Have they been going around in circles?

501
00:22:37.619 --> 00:22:39.180
No, no.

502
00:22:39.180 --> 00:22:42.359
You have got to forget about that because the 2nd you put that

503
00:22:42.359 --> 00:22:42.960
thought in your head.

504
00:22:43.019 --> 00:22:44.579
Well, they've been travelling in that direction.

505
00:22:44.579 --> 00:22:47.460
Have they not left Kazon space yet?

506
00:22:47.579 --> 00:22:48.720
Like how slow are they going?

507
00:22:48.779 --> 00:22:52.799
Well, you see, I just thought, okay, so Kazon space is very big

508
00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:55.740
you know, like whatever it stretches light use and light use, but

509
00:22:55.740 --> 00:22:59.400
it's not just Kazon space, it's these individuals.

510
00:22:59.460 --> 00:23:01.559
We keep meeting them around the season.

511
00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:06.359
You want Harry Kim to just have throw away a line, okay?

512
00:23:06.420 --> 00:23:07.740
We're not getting very far, are we?

513
00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:08.880
That's right.

514
00:23:08.940 --> 00:23:15.000
So this Tersa, this guy is Tersa, and he is, oh, look, thank God

515
00:23:15.180 --> 00:23:18.660
Scotty's not here because he gets stabby in situations like this.

516
00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:21.420
I fucking love the beginning of this scene, right?

517
00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:24.900
Where they're trying to make it a bit exotic, and I bet, like, they

518
00:23:24.900 --> 00:23:28.019
so rarely do this on Voyager, where we go somewhere that just sort

519
00:23:28.019 --> 00:23:31.680
of feels like a bar with a sexy woman and a bizarre hat, which

520
00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:34.019
plays a musical instrument in the ceiling.

521
00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:39.119
So I think that if this was Discovery, there would be a boy there

522
00:23:39.119 --> 00:23:41.640
as well, and it would be much better for it.

523
00:23:41.700 --> 00:23:44.579
It is kind of a bit...

524
00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:45.599
It never feels lived in.

525
00:23:45.660 --> 00:23:49.440
And so I like it when we go to a location that actually feels like

526
00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:51.480
somewhere that's lived in.

527
00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:56.640
Also, this is a puzzle where he has to turn a dodeckahedron into

528
00:23:56.640 --> 00:24:02.940
an icosahedron or vice versa, and clearly no one who, uh, either

529
00:24:02.940 --> 00:24:08.160
no one who wrote the script or no one who made that thing, a thing

530
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:10.859
knew what either of those 2 things.

531
00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:13.319
I mean, I know why, though, Dekhedron is only because I've watched

532
00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:15.299
Doctor Who Meglos, but yeah, yeah, yeah.

533
00:24:15.660 --> 00:24:19.920
So icosahedron's got 20 sides and they're all triangles, but it's

534
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:20.460
another solid.

535
00:24:20.519 --> 00:24:23.160
I don't know what they're doing This is my favourite side of

536
00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:23.880
Neelix as well.

537
00:24:23.940 --> 00:24:25.980
I do like it when it's quite sweet on the ship.

538
00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:30.059
But when he's got a bit of outsider knowledge, you know, and they

539
00:24:30.059 --> 00:24:33.240
lean on that in the 1st 3 years, they get to a fair trade where

540
00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:36.240
he's finally, they've gone to the point, that's as far as he's

541
00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:36.420
gone.

542
00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:38.880
So he's got no knowledge from that point on and there's a whole

543
00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:40.980
episode about how he suddenly feel.

544
00:24:40.980 --> 00:24:44.160
And he makes a lot of dodgy moves to find out maps for what's

545
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:46.799
going on ahead, which is really interesting as well.

546
00:24:46.859 --> 00:24:49.019
But it's leading into that, though.

547
00:24:49.079 --> 00:24:52.019
I think the original conception of Neelix wasn't just some comedy

548
00:24:52.019 --> 00:24:56.519
buffoon morale officer. was supposed to be this sort of dodgy

549
00:24:56.519 --> 00:24:57.420
dealer, wasn't it?

550
00:24:57.660 --> 00:25:00.420
God, that dance is so bored.

551
00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:07.019
I think maybe she thought the camera weren't on her anymore.

552
00:25:07.380 --> 00:25:09.359
Oh, here we go.

553
00:25:09.420 --> 00:25:10.380
Marshcolor again.

554
00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:11.700
Wonderful.

555
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:13.200
I mean, what is that on his head?

556
00:25:13.259 --> 00:25:14.579
Oh, it's awful.

557
00:25:14.700 --> 00:25:16.380
It's sort of a bit gross, actually.

558
00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:17.940
Like it's all sort of...

559
00:25:17.940 --> 00:25:20.099
Is it supposed to be a week or a load of rocks?

560
00:25:20.220 --> 00:25:22.980
So, yeah, I don't know.

561
00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:26.160
It looks like sort of the hair's matted or something or their

562
00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:27.720
bones growing it or something.

563
00:25:27.779 --> 00:25:28.680
I don't know.

564
00:25:28.740 --> 00:25:31.319
Look, we've run out of rocks to put in the consoles.

565
00:25:31.380 --> 00:25:33.180
Can we just borrow something from your head?

566
00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:34.559
Oh, Jesus Christ.

567
00:25:34.619 --> 00:25:40.200
Can we just talk about the way Kurt dies because, you know, in the

568
00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:45.180
opening scene, he dies because his console blows up in his face?

569
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:49.319
It's like no one's heard of insulation.

570
00:25:49.380 --> 00:25:52.319
Like, it's the most dangerous thing on the ship.

571
00:25:52.380 --> 00:25:53.460
It's most of charges.

572
00:25:53.460 --> 00:25:54.960
That's right.

573
00:25:55.019 --> 00:25:56.579
It's so lame.

574
00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:59.759
It's like a cheap way of injuring people.

575
00:25:59.819 --> 00:26:00.779
Do you know what?

576
00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:01.019
right?

577
00:26:01.079 --> 00:26:01.619
Can I tell you?

578
00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:05.579
There's somebody on memory alpha that is going through all of

579
00:26:05.579 --> 00:26:10.200
Voyager and counting the crew compliment and then taking it down a

580
00:26:10.200 --> 00:26:12.839
notch, just like Battlestar Galactica every time somebody dies.

581
00:26:12.900 --> 00:26:13.859
So he dies.

582
00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:16.680
But by the time we get to endgame, I think there's only about 3

583
00:26:16.680 --> 00:26:18.960
people left because they've murdered so many people.

584
00:26:19.019 --> 00:26:22.980
Well, I think we said at the time in endgame, there was this sort

585
00:26:22.980 --> 00:26:26.160
of terrible thing how 24 people died in the original timeline

586
00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:29.819
before we got home in 20 years or whatever.

587
00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:32.400
And it's just like, but more than that, have died in the 7 years

588
00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:33.180
of Voyager.

589
00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:37.079
Like, it sounds like your track rate actually got rather better.

590
00:26:37.140 --> 00:26:38.640
Oh, your comment on that.

591
00:26:38.700 --> 00:26:39.839
I was like, get over it, Jane.

592
00:26:39.900 --> 00:26:40.259
People die.

593
00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:42.299
You haven't got to go back in time.

594
00:26:42.359 --> 00:26:44.220
Did you hear what Jacobo sent there?

595
00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:48.660
I found the idea of an alliance with you, distasteful colour.

596
00:26:48.779 --> 00:26:50.519
Get out of my sight.

597
00:26:50.579 --> 00:26:56.579
I also think it's me a little bit that we have the 1st female, we

598
00:26:56.579 --> 00:26:59.160
have the 1st female captain, and so the villains have to be

599
00:26:59.160 --> 00:26:59.759
sexist.

600
00:26:59.819 --> 00:27:01.380
Do you know what I mean?

601
00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:04.680
And that's when, and in fact, all of this, like the relationship

602
00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:09.059
between Cesca and colour is completely different behind closed

603
00:27:09.059 --> 00:27:13.740
doors, where she's very, very much in charge and utterly

604
00:27:13.740 --> 00:27:17.400
contemptuous of him, and he's rude and dismissive, isn't he?

605
00:27:17.460 --> 00:27:17.880
It's wonderful.

606
00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:21.779
I love how she partners to his ego whilst manipulating him to do

607
00:27:21.779 --> 00:27:25.500
exactly what she was. because he's a big, dumb, like, moron.

608
00:27:25.559 --> 00:27:28.019
Marva hatchet. doesn't she?

609
00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:29.519
Oh, here we are.

610
00:27:29.579 --> 00:27:32.460
Let's have a moment for stock cave set number 62.

611
00:27:32.579 --> 00:27:33.779
So number one.

612
00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:35.519
Yeah, there it is.

613
00:27:36.059 --> 00:27:39.900
And we've introduced. we're introducing Mabis.

614
00:27:40.019 --> 00:27:43.140
Now, he will...

615
00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:50.579
He will be back in, I think it might be, um, Travis's only

616
00:27:50.579 --> 00:27:54.299
Enterprise episode, Fortunate Son.

617
00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:57.000
He comes back as Captain Keen, unfortunate son.

618
00:27:57.059 --> 00:27:59.220
Yeah, and he missed that by one episode, you know, recently.

619
00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:00.240
Yeah, yeah.

620
00:28:00.299 --> 00:28:04.200
And he's Al Car in Man of the People.

621
00:28:04.259 --> 00:28:06.000
No.

622
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:07.619
Oh my God.

623
00:28:07.619 --> 00:28:09.180
I see it.

624
00:28:09.240 --> 00:28:10.019
I see it.

625
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:11.519
He is, isn't he?

626
00:28:11.579 --> 00:28:12.660
No, our car.

627
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:13.859
Don't leave me.

628
00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:15.599
Do you remember the bit?

629
00:28:15.660 --> 00:28:17.640
Oh, aren't we talking about that episode?

630
00:28:17.700 --> 00:28:20.039
Troy goes into the transporter room with a knife.

631
00:28:20.099 --> 00:28:20.700
A knife.

632
00:28:20.759 --> 00:28:22.799
I won't let you leave me, Alcar.

633
00:28:22.859 --> 00:28:24.900
Then she attacked the car.

634
00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:28.140
Oh, alcohol.

635
00:28:28.200 --> 00:28:31.380
Oh, you just brought yourself another notch a lot. isn't that

636
00:28:31.380 --> 00:28:31.680
awesome?

637
00:28:31.740 --> 00:28:32.519
So great.

638
00:28:32.579 --> 00:28:34.559
He must have had so much fun with Marina.

639
00:28:34.619 --> 00:28:35.700
He's like, no sign me up.

640
00:28:35.759 --> 00:28:37.079
I want to do stuff again.

641
00:28:37.140 --> 00:28:41.039
I want to do this So, so what's happening here, right?

642
00:28:41.099 --> 00:28:46.859
So when we see the Kazon, they wear, you know, beads and stuff and

643
00:28:46.859 --> 00:28:51.900
they're tribes and and they're dark skinned and all of that.

644
00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:57.000
And then we get these white people here and they, you know, say we

645
00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:00.059
have a terrible colonial history and we were very cruel and all of

646
00:29:00.059 --> 00:29:00.599
that sort of thing.

647
00:29:00.660 --> 00:29:04.500
Yeah, so they do make, yeah, I'm glad they make that reference. you

648
00:29:04.500 --> 00:29:06.960
know, so it doesn't come completely out of left field at the end.

649
00:29:07.019 --> 00:29:10.200
They do say the trade were the greatest villains of the quadrant

650
00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:11.519
or something. at one point.

651
00:29:11.579 --> 00:29:15.420
Yeah, no, no, in fact, I think that that's what colour says.

652
00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:17.460
Colour says, so you're not aligning with us.

653
00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:19.980
You are allying with the greatest villains in the quadrant.

654
00:29:19.980 --> 00:29:21.240
And that's...

655
00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:23.099
It's the trade with the English now then.

656
00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:26.880
Well, I think it's I mean, this is clearly South Africa, isn't

657
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:27.059
it?

658
00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:32.759
Like they keep, uh, you know, there's homelands, that the, um, that

659
00:29:32.759 --> 00:29:37.500
they live in there out of sight of the trade, so they don't have

660
00:29:37.500 --> 00:29:42.000
to see the level of poverty and and misery that they live in, so

661
00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:45.660
that they're exploited and oppressed by the trade.

662
00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:49.380
They just find it so distasteful that, you know, because they seem

663
00:29:49.380 --> 00:29:52.619
a little bit cultured, that Jane wears immediately like, yeah, we

664
00:29:52.619 --> 00:29:53.700
can have alliance with these people.

665
00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:55.799
Not those wretched gangs.

666
00:29:55.859 --> 00:29:57.720
No, the white people.

667
00:29:57.779 --> 00:29:59.940
We're going the white people.

668
00:29:59.940 --> 00:30:00.960
I didn't want to say it.

669
00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:03.839
No, but that's clearly what's happening, isn't it?

670
00:30:03.900 --> 00:30:05.279
And no one notices it.

671
00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:12.720
So it's it's icky because her actual reason for not wanting

672
00:30:12.720 --> 00:30:16.680
alliances doesn't wash because there's no Starfleet rule about

673
00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:16.920
that.

674
00:30:16.980 --> 00:30:18.119
That makes no sense at all.

675
00:30:18.180 --> 00:30:22.200
They're making alliances all the time. in the Alpha Quadrant. what

676
00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:23.039
are we talking about?

677
00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:26.099
That's one of the things that we do.

678
00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:27.240
It's a federation.

679
00:30:27.299 --> 00:30:28.200
Do you know what I mean?

680
00:30:28.259 --> 00:30:31.740
Like a federation is a group of people who have joined together in

681
00:30:31.740 --> 00:30:32.519
the alliance.

682
00:30:32.579 --> 00:30:34.859
Federation in the Delta Quadrant, you know?

683
00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:37.440
A fleet of ships could have come through in and game.

684
00:30:37.500 --> 00:30:41.220
I brought all these fabulous races to join the federation, you

685
00:30:41.220 --> 00:30:41.519
know?

686
00:30:41.579 --> 00:30:44.519
So I think that there's a problem.

687
00:30:44.579 --> 00:30:49.559
We've said it before, that 90s trek and the further on it goes, the

688
00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:55.619
less happier it is about Star Trek, you know, the federation

689
00:30:55.619 --> 00:30:59.579
ideals and that sort of, you know, socialist utopia thing.

690
00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:02.940
We really challenge it in latter DS 9, don't we?

691
00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:06.839
And I think the whole thing of the Dominion is sort of a dark

692
00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:07.980
version of that, isn't it?

693
00:31:08.039 --> 00:31:08.700
Yeah.

694
00:31:08.759 --> 00:31:12.000
But I also think too, that what Deep Space 9 is doing is saying

695
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:15.240
all right, let's face it, the Federation is basically America.

696
00:31:15.299 --> 00:31:20.700
Now, let's puncture its pretensions to be a society based on

697
00:31:20.700 --> 00:31:22.019
equality and stuff like that.

698
00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:26.940
Even more critical than that. when you get through episodes like

699
00:31:26.940 --> 00:31:27.900
Valiant and things like that.

700
00:31:27.960 --> 00:31:31.380
That is making fun of where they show how they are brainwashed

701
00:31:31.380 --> 00:31:34.740
into doing extreme acts that's going to get them all killed.

702
00:31:34.859 --> 00:31:38.880
Yes, but that's kind of an interesting explanation, exploration.

703
00:31:38.940 --> 00:31:42.359
This just feels like digging her heels in to create some drama.

704
00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:46.019
It's what Romor said about Star Trek Voyage when it came on.

705
00:31:46.079 --> 00:31:48.660
I don't understand why these characters are behaving this way.

706
00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:50.640
And they're like, well, we need a bit of attention for that

707
00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:51.420
episode, you know.

708
00:31:51.480 --> 00:31:53.460
Look at this guy.

709
00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:55.920
Like, he's never watched a film before.

710
00:31:55.980 --> 00:32:00.059
So he doesn't realise that that's a hand grenade.

711
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:01.680
So he kicks it experimentally.

712
00:32:01.740 --> 00:32:06.240
It explodes and he falls over completely, otherwise visibly

713
00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:07.200
unharmed, though.

714
00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:10.019
I just don't like the way the case on odds.

715
00:32:10.019 --> 00:32:13.500
Oh, portrayed as being so stupid and the trade is being so small.

716
00:32:13.559 --> 00:32:14.880
Yeah, yeah.

717
00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:17.819
It's a, it's a bit uncomfortable.

718
00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:18.359
But do you know what?

719
00:32:18.420 --> 00:32:18.839
You know what?

720
00:32:18.900 --> 00:32:21.599
We've made quite a few criticisms about all of this.

721
00:32:21.660 --> 00:32:24.900
I do think it's great that these things are being thrown in the

722
00:32:24.900 --> 00:32:25.619
air and talked about.

723
00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:26.640
Yeah, yeah.

724
00:32:27.180 --> 00:32:27.480
Yeah.

725
00:32:27.539 --> 00:32:30.420
I just think there's a problem with what the episode's about.

726
00:32:30.539 --> 00:32:33.420
You know, the opening speech that she has about not making

727
00:32:33.420 --> 00:32:38.160
alliances and that smug closing speech, which is just so on the

728
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:41.039
nose and, you know, kind of objectionable.

729
00:32:41.099 --> 00:32:42.599
And it's her.

730
00:32:42.660 --> 00:32:45.539
I was right all along, by the way, even though I'm the one who

731
00:32:45.539 --> 00:32:50.220
decided to have an alliance with the racist white people.

732
00:32:50.579 --> 00:32:54.299
You just want her to leave the room before the closing credits and

733
00:32:54.299 --> 00:32:55.740
they all just look at each other going, what?

734
00:32:58.980 --> 00:33:01.319
Are you serious right now?

735
00:33:01.380 --> 00:33:04.680
Oh, so they're trying to do. we watched Scorpion and we had all of

736
00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:08.160
those ships on the screen and Harry Kit jumped from 3 to 15 or

737
00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:10.559
something like that. we could barely perceive it.

738
00:33:10.619 --> 00:33:12.000
They're trying it there with a Kazon.

739
00:33:12.059 --> 00:33:14.220
I'm not sure the ships are as intimidating.

740
00:33:14.339 --> 00:33:17.460
I have to say that I quite like the ships, though, and there is

741
00:33:17.460 --> 00:33:20.880
something about this era of Star Trek.

742
00:33:20.940 --> 00:33:24.720
You know, we talked the other day about how stunningly beautiful

743
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:26.519
the Romulan birds of prey are.

744
00:33:26.640 --> 00:33:29.640
And the Dominion ships we liked as well, didn't we?

745
00:33:29.700 --> 00:33:30.960
Yeah, yeah. bugs.

746
00:33:31.019 --> 00:33:35.759
And I think, you know, the Kazon ones work for the Kazon, I think

747
00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:39.059
you know, they're sandy coloured, like the desert where we 1st see

748
00:33:39.059 --> 00:33:43.079
the Kazon in, you know, they've got a beak, they look predatory

749
00:33:43.079 --> 00:33:44.400
like a vulture or something like that.

750
00:33:44.460 --> 00:33:45.359
I think they're okay.

751
00:33:45.420 --> 00:33:47.579
They look a bit shit straight on.

752
00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:48.779
Do you see what he said there?

753
00:33:48.839 --> 00:33:50.819
I wasn't even aware of the caison growing up.

754
00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:52.259
They lived in restricted areas.

755
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:53.460
Yeah, yeah.

756
00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:55.680
You see, it's like homelands, isn't it?

757
00:33:55.740 --> 00:33:58.380
I didn't know they lived in poverty and film.

758
00:33:58.440 --> 00:33:59.519
Yeah.

759
00:34:00.779 --> 00:34:05.220
The police, even the thing, even the thing that persecuted by the

760
00:34:05.220 --> 00:34:10.619
trade police, even acknowledging that the police are racist, you

761
00:34:10.619 --> 00:34:13.079
know, so they wouldn't get loose and kill us.

762
00:34:14.699 --> 00:34:20.219
So he's having lots of sort of colonialist guilt or pretending to

763
00:34:20.219 --> 00:34:24.719
because, of course, he is going to take the opportunity because

764
00:34:24.719 --> 00:34:26.099
it's his idea, isn't it?

765
00:34:26.159 --> 00:34:28.920
Janeway shouldn't have heard some of this, you know, and their

766
00:34:28.920 --> 00:34:32.219
history and just said, no, oh, we're not going to do this, you

767
00:34:32.219 --> 00:34:32.820
know, with you.

768
00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:36.539
Well, except that she has that in her history as well.

769
00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:40.139
You're our people.

770
00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:43.500
You're all kind of people. that's right joined my new Federation.

771
00:34:43.559 --> 00:34:48.119
We'll be the supremest song.

772
00:34:48.480 --> 00:34:52.860
We'll go around and civilise all the planets just like Picard did

773
00:34:52.860 --> 00:34:54.239
in Syria's model TNG.

774
00:34:55.920 --> 00:34:57.960
Oh dear.

775
00:34:58.019 --> 00:35:01.440
Oh, so the idea is now is they've all been scattered because the

776
00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:03.179
Kazon are a force to be reckoned with.

777
00:35:03.239 --> 00:35:06.780
Yeah, because the case kind of risen up, overthrown them and now

778
00:35:06.780 --> 00:35:08.639
persecuting them.

779
00:35:08.639 --> 00:35:12.059
I do really like them giving the case on a sympathetic backstory

780
00:35:12.059 --> 00:35:14.400
though. after sort of gina training as the villains.

781
00:35:14.460 --> 00:35:17.639
I think that's a good move Yeah, it makes them more...

782
00:35:17.699 --> 00:35:20.099
I think they even must have said in that writer's room.

783
00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:21.539
The case on was so boring.

784
00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:22.619
We haven't done nothing with them.

785
00:35:22.679 --> 00:35:25.320
Well, yeah, and pillars there going, you know what?

786
00:35:25.380 --> 00:35:26.639
We're gonna make them the victims.

787
00:35:26.699 --> 00:35:28.019
That'll be interesting.

788
00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:31.920
Yeah, I think that's, I think that is really interesting and it

789
00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:35.760
does say something, you know, like I think it's, it's a thing

790
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:37.800
that's worth doing as well.

791
00:35:37.860 --> 00:35:42.780
You know, these people are, you know, violent and aggressive and

792
00:35:42.780 --> 00:35:43.019
stuff.

793
00:35:43.079 --> 00:35:43.800
Why is that?

794
00:35:43.860 --> 00:35:47.280
Well, they've learned that being violent and aggressive is how you

795
00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:51.300
survive because of the oppression that they've undergone and

796
00:35:51.300 --> 00:35:54.480
they're, you know, within their rights to harass and.

797
00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:55.980
What's the solution here then, Nathan?

798
00:35:56.099 --> 00:35:59.340
She had just gone off and just let them get on with her own little

799
00:35:59.340 --> 00:35:59.940
squabbles.

800
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:04.320
Yeah, well, I mean, I don't think she needs to solve anything in

801
00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:05.940
the quadrant for the show to work.

802
00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:07.800
You know, she does just need to get home.

803
00:36:08.579 --> 00:36:10.559
So here we go.

804
00:36:10.619 --> 00:36:14.039
Gosh, Jonas is wearing a lot of makeup, isn't he?

805
00:36:14.099 --> 00:36:16.440
Yeah. you seeing that?

806
00:36:16.500 --> 00:36:18.179
seen a couple of scenes back with Hogan.

807
00:36:18.300 --> 00:36:20.760
He was doing some serious eye acting with Bilama.

808
00:36:20.820 --> 00:36:21.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

809
00:36:21.539 --> 00:36:23.579
It's a very intense look.

810
00:36:23.639 --> 00:36:24.360
No, he is good.

811
00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:27.179
The thing is, is I'm going to say this.

812
00:36:27.239 --> 00:36:30.539
These are secondary characters on Voyager, and they are

813
00:36:30.539 --> 00:36:31.559
functional.

814
00:36:31.619 --> 00:36:37.019
They're okay, you know, but like, I think they are worse, you know

815
00:36:37.019 --> 00:36:42.059
than, than the, the least successful secondary characters on DS9.

816
00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:45.719
Yeah, but it's such a relief having secondary characters at all, I

817
00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:45.960
think.

818
00:36:46.019 --> 00:36:47.639
You know, we said...

819
00:36:47.639 --> 00:36:49.440
Take anything, any scraps you'll give us.

820
00:36:49.500 --> 00:36:52.380
Well, we said that when we were watching Genesis.

821
00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:56.400
You know, it was so nice to see Barclay and Alyssa, uh, to, you

822
00:36:56.400 --> 00:36:59.400
know, as if they'd been there all along.

823
00:36:59.400 --> 00:37:03.239
I loved it when they brought Brad Dorrifin as a serial killer.

824
00:37:03.300 --> 00:37:05.280
And he had a couple of... consulting serial killer.

825
00:37:05.340 --> 00:37:06.719
Yeah, that was a bit interesting.

826
00:37:06.780 --> 00:37:07.559
That was pillar again.

827
00:37:07.619 --> 00:37:08.159
He wrote that one.

828
00:37:08.219 --> 00:37:08.579
Yeah.

829
00:37:08.579 --> 00:37:10.980
Consistent, basic.

830
00:37:11.039 --> 00:37:13.980
Yeah, he's the one, him and the doctor, they helped retake the

831
00:37:13.980 --> 00:37:14.219
shit.

832
00:37:14.280 --> 00:37:15.659
They take the ship back, don't they?

833
00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:16.500
Yeah, yeah.

834
00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:20.159
And I thought, God, he's going to be a hero now, you know, but you

835
00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:20.940
will need to watch out.

836
00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:23.760
He might pull out a knife at any moment and she kills him off.

837
00:37:23.820 --> 00:37:24.960
She goes, no, we want him gone.

838
00:37:25.019 --> 00:37:28.079
Mind you, they weren't going to keep Brad Doroth forever.

839
00:37:28.139 --> 00:37:29.280
I mean, he gets what?

840
00:37:29.340 --> 00:37:30.119
No, no, that's right.

841
00:37:30.179 --> 00:37:30.780
Yeah, exactly.

842
00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:33.179
Oh, here we go.

843
00:37:33.239 --> 00:37:33.719
Now, look.

844
00:37:33.780 --> 00:37:34.800
This might be a luxury.

845
00:37:34.860 --> 00:37:35.579
I simply don't have.

846
00:37:35.639 --> 00:37:37.980
We're going to have to make an alliance with these wide

847
00:37:37.980 --> 00:37:38.460
supremacists.

848
00:37:38.519 --> 00:37:38.820
White people.

849
00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:39.360
Let's go.

850
00:37:39.420 --> 00:37:40.199
That's right.

851
00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:43.739
Well, you changed the tune, Janeway?

852
00:37:43.980 --> 00:37:47.820
Ah, the tribe, they enjoy a good meal.

853
00:37:47.880 --> 00:37:52.440
There's a nice things about the brandy. and so we're going to have

854
00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:53.219
an alliance with them.

855
00:37:53.219 --> 00:37:54.360
Interesting smelly gangs.

856
00:37:54.420 --> 00:38:01.199
That's right I don't think our problem with the case on is that

857
00:38:01.199 --> 00:38:02.940
they're, you know, a bunch of bully boys.

858
00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:04.139
I don't think she likes colour.

859
00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:06.840
No, yeah, no, he's horrible.

860
00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:11.400
Oh, look, here we go. little boy, you know.

861
00:38:11.460 --> 00:38:12.840
She strokes his hair.

862
00:38:12.900 --> 00:38:15.239
They're good people after all, yeah.

863
00:38:15.539 --> 00:38:17.519
They have children.

864
00:38:17.579 --> 00:38:19.619
You couldn't be evil and have children.

865
00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:27.420
That awful Kazon boy we dealt with, it was wielding knives all the

866
00:38:27.420 --> 00:38:27.900
time.

867
00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:33.599
That's right There was, to be fair, a black woman in the

868
00:38:33.599 --> 00:38:39.059
background, who was trade, but I did think that they were very

869
00:38:39.059 --> 00:38:41.820
white on the whole, the extras and stuff.

870
00:38:41.880 --> 00:38:44.400
I mean, we only have one speaking trade, don't we?

871
00:38:44.460 --> 00:38:44.940
This guy?

872
00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:51.300
I think as a whole, the Kazon are all black and the tray barrel

873
00:38:51.300 --> 00:38:51.780
white.

874
00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:56.519
Well, no, but like we said, the Anthony DeLongus is wide, but they

875
00:38:56.519 --> 00:39:01.679
paint him orange and the same with Aaron Eisenberg, you know, the

876
00:39:01.739 --> 00:39:03.300
sort of tribal look, isn't it?

877
00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:04.320
Yeah, it is.

878
00:39:04.380 --> 00:39:07.500
It's a tribal look and they belong to tribes that have names, the

879
00:39:07.500 --> 00:39:09.300
Nistrom and the Ogla and all of that.

880
00:39:09.900 --> 00:39:11.280
Yeah.

881
00:39:11.340 --> 00:39:14.340
I do wonder, though, I would have liked to have seen a little bit

882
00:39:14.340 --> 00:39:17.940
of this, maybe not with the trade, but like an alliance where

883
00:39:17.940 --> 00:39:22.139
there's a few ships going along with Voyager and then taking some

884
00:39:22.139 --> 00:39:24.059
stories taken, and I know they would never do it.

885
00:39:24.179 --> 00:39:26.219
And it's a shame, you know?

886
00:39:26.280 --> 00:39:30.000
But they can do it because then, you know, when they boot them all

887
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:33.719
off DS9, we have 6 episodes where they're away in other locations

888
00:39:33.719 --> 00:39:34.079
you know?

889
00:39:34.199 --> 00:39:41.340
Yeah, but this is, you know, launching UPN, isn't it?

890
00:39:41.400 --> 00:39:43.739
Like this is their big flagship show.

891
00:39:43.739 --> 00:39:48.539
It's on a different network from...

892
00:39:48.599 --> 00:39:50.639
We've got our own Star Trek, the next generation.

893
00:39:50.699 --> 00:39:54.300
Come and watch us. yeah Yeah, well I think that's it. think that's

894
00:39:54.300 --> 00:39:54.900
absolutely it.

895
00:39:54.960 --> 00:39:57.420
And look at her just...

896
00:39:57.480 --> 00:39:58.440
Look at his face.

897
00:39:58.500 --> 00:39:59.579
He's pissed, isn't he?

898
00:40:00.599 --> 00:40:04.500
We could have got that colour if you'd have behaved yourself.

899
00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:06.480
That's it.

900
00:40:06.599 --> 00:40:08.400
She's so great.

901
00:40:13.079 --> 00:40:16.079
I'm mixing her on boys, you know, you know.

902
00:40:16.139 --> 00:40:18.119
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

903
00:40:18.239 --> 00:40:18.780
Yeah.

904
00:40:18.840 --> 00:40:19.440
Yeah.

905
00:40:19.500 --> 00:40:21.599
But she's really, really great.

906
00:40:21.659 --> 00:40:24.780
When they bring her back, they bring her back for 2 episodes, don't

907
00:40:24.780 --> 00:40:24.960
they?

908
00:40:25.019 --> 00:40:28.739
There's worst case scenario in series 3 and then they're shattered

909
00:40:28.739 --> 00:40:33.179
in series 7 and every time she comes back, you're like, oh, you

910
00:40:33.179 --> 00:40:34.800
should have done the whole run, love. you know?

911
00:40:34.860 --> 00:40:36.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

912
00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:38.280
Imagine Cesca and seven.

913
00:40:38.340 --> 00:40:40.199
I mean it would have been amazing.

914
00:40:43.260 --> 00:40:46.920
When the Federation Carl, could you risk being the only march who

915
00:40:46.920 --> 00:40:47.579
doesn't attend?

916
00:40:49.139 --> 00:40:53.099
She's basically like our Weyune for this show, isn't she?

917
00:40:53.159 --> 00:40:55.260
A sort of devious politician.

918
00:40:55.559 --> 00:40:57.719
Yeah, yeah.

919
00:40:57.780 --> 00:41:00.420
Yeah, I think it's just a great shame.

920
00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:05.340
It's a brilliant choice to have those 2 do our 1st big 2 part.

921
00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:07.800
Cliffhanger episode.

922
00:41:07.860 --> 00:41:13.260
They absolutely earn it and it's a really great episode because

923
00:41:13.260 --> 00:41:16.199
you know, they're already stranded and now they're even more

924
00:41:16.199 --> 00:41:16.980
stranded.

925
00:41:17.039 --> 00:41:18.840
Oh, shit, this is so great.

926
00:41:18.900 --> 00:41:20.219
Look at the look on his face.

927
00:41:20.280 --> 00:41:23.579
And she's pandering to his ego saying, you know, you're going to

928
00:41:23.579 --> 00:41:27.239
take over the entire quadrant and he's almost getting a raging

929
00:41:27.239 --> 00:41:31.199
boner. hampering to his ego.

930
00:41:31.260 --> 00:41:32.639
Oh, it's glorious.

931
00:41:32.699 --> 00:41:35.400
I can't believe people don't like this stuff.

932
00:41:35.460 --> 00:41:37.260
This is one of the best...

933
00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:38.579
It's really fun.

934
00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:40.500
That's that's the stuff.

935
00:41:40.619 --> 00:41:41.820
And it's great.

936
00:41:41.880 --> 00:41:43.440
I think it is a savvy move.

937
00:41:43.500 --> 00:41:47.760
I have, you know, your 1st shit show with a female captain and a

938
00:41:47.760 --> 00:41:48.659
great female villain.

939
00:41:48.719 --> 00:41:49.500
Female villain.

940
00:41:49.559 --> 00:41:49.800
You know?

941
00:41:49.860 --> 00:41:50.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

942
00:41:50.579 --> 00:41:50.880
I agree.

943
00:41:50.940 --> 00:41:51.719
Yeah.

944
00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:53.880
Attackrit.

945
00:41:53.940 --> 00:41:54.960
Who are the tackrit?

946
00:41:55.019 --> 00:41:59.219
Oh, so this is a thing that happened during that last scene.

947
00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:02.219
Neelix was back on the planet Sobras or whatever for some reason

948
00:42:02.219 --> 00:42:06.539
and he discovered that there's now a plot to kill everyone at the

949
00:42:06.539 --> 00:42:08.820
conference and they decide.

950
00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:12.659
And this is so, like, I actually kind of emotional racist decision

951
00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:14.880
they make, it's got to be the case on, they think, don't they?

952
00:42:14.940 --> 00:42:15.719
going to be one of the last.

953
00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:16.559
Well, they just assume.

954
00:42:16.619 --> 00:42:21.360
Well, I mean, just, you know, there's a bunch of there's one trade

955
00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:23.099
and 9 K's on it.

956
00:42:23.159 --> 00:42:25.800
Never occurs to them that it'll be the trade because yes, you're

957
00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:26.820
right, they're white people.

958
00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:30.900
But there's also like just less of them, I think.

959
00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:37.679
But I love the moment at the conference where, um, where Mabis

960
00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:41.039
goes, uh, actually, should we just step out for a quick thing, we

961
00:42:41.039 --> 00:42:42.119
need to talk about something.

962
00:42:42.179 --> 00:42:43.800
Come on, let's go, quick.

963
00:42:43.860 --> 00:42:45.659
Oh, come on. isn't it?

964
00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:45.840
Yeah.

965
00:42:45.960 --> 00:42:48.239
Captain, I need to talk to you now.

966
00:42:48.300 --> 00:42:52.860
But we get a shot of Tuvok realising what's going on before he

967
00:42:52.860 --> 00:42:56.940
gets too kind of blatant about it, which I thought was... done

968
00:42:56.940 --> 00:42:57.840
would have said, you know what?

969
00:42:57.900 --> 00:43:00.780
If they're going to try and do an assassination attempt here.

970
00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:02.159
Let's have it on Voyager.

971
00:43:02.219 --> 00:43:03.900
Let's invite everybody here instead.

972
00:43:04.019 --> 00:43:06.179
I love this guy.

973
00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:09.719
This guy just had a whole speech about deciding to make the table

974
00:43:09.719 --> 00:43:10.679
triangular.

975
00:43:11.400 --> 00:43:16.559
May I say the person on backcloth juicy is doing a fine job of

976
00:43:16.559 --> 00:43:17.760
those mountains out the window.

977
00:43:17.820 --> 00:43:20.519
I actually think that looks really good, does it?

978
00:43:20.579 --> 00:43:20.760
Yeah.

979
00:43:20.820 --> 00:43:24.059
When the the bolt comes through the window later.

980
00:43:24.119 --> 00:43:25.739
There's a pane of glass that shatters.

981
00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:26.699
Yeah, yeah.

982
00:43:26.760 --> 00:43:27.300
Really?

983
00:43:27.300 --> 00:43:29.639
I like the special effect outside.

984
00:43:29.699 --> 00:43:32.519
But I think this is a tiny, tiny room.

985
00:43:34.199 --> 00:43:37.860
And I mentioned now, I mentioned it off my, but I want to mention

986
00:43:37.860 --> 00:43:38.159
it.

987
00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:38.699
I might now.

988
00:43:38.760 --> 00:43:42.780
Yeah, for some reason on Netflix and on Prime Video.

989
00:43:42.840 --> 00:43:43.739
They've taken it off now.

990
00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:47.699
They dubbed on, every time one of these margins turns up in this

991
00:43:47.699 --> 00:43:51.900
tiny room, this enormous applause, like there's a stadium full of

992
00:43:51.900 --> 00:43:56.820
people there, and, you know, like a da, da, da, da, da, fanfare

993
00:43:56.820 --> 00:43:58.920
every time someone walks in. large menace.

994
00:44:00.300 --> 00:44:03.780
These guys are so...

995
00:44:03.840 --> 00:44:05.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

996
00:44:05.579 --> 00:44:08.039
Surat, there's Surat.

997
00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:13.079
They were like, right, we need a list of space names.

998
00:44:13.139 --> 00:44:13.559
Come on.

999
00:44:13.619 --> 00:44:14.880
Yep, Lauren here.

1000
00:44:16.139 --> 00:44:18.360
Of the Oglamar.

1001
00:44:18.420 --> 00:44:19.920
That's Valek.

1002
00:44:19.980 --> 00:44:22.079
Wow, he's coming in his pyjamas.

1003
00:44:22.139 --> 00:44:23.639
Oh, the mystery.

1004
00:44:23.639 --> 00:44:26.519
Yeah, yeah.

1005
00:44:26.579 --> 00:44:28.380
And colour gets a friend.

1006
00:44:28.440 --> 00:44:30.000
He's a speaking part.

1007
00:44:30.059 --> 00:44:33.659
It's something that you have done, you know, perversely to me for

1008
00:44:33.659 --> 00:44:35.639
watching these 90s episodes now.

1009
00:44:35.699 --> 00:44:39.840
It's all I was thinking was if somebody who wasn't a Star Trek fan

1010
00:44:39.840 --> 00:44:43.559
put this on and saw all these absurd looking people skid around

1011
00:44:43.559 --> 00:44:46.019
the table talking to.

1012
00:44:46.380 --> 00:44:48.239
How is this?

1013
00:44:49.739 --> 00:44:52.739
There is so much latex in this scene.

1014
00:44:52.800 --> 00:44:53.820
There he is.

1015
00:44:53.940 --> 00:44:55.800
I have so many.

1016
00:44:55.860 --> 00:44:57.659
I mean, who was on week duty here?

1017
00:44:57.719 --> 00:45:03.960
So I think this is, I think this is Charles's own hair, as Mabis

1018
00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:07.619
he's gone gray in the last sort of 3 or 4 years.

1019
00:45:07.739 --> 00:45:11.579
Did you see how Carlos sat down there looking at everybody like he

1020
00:45:11.579 --> 00:45:13.739
was already like the queen of England, you know?

1021
00:45:13.739 --> 00:45:16.980
I love him. he's great.

1022
00:45:17.039 --> 00:45:20.880
No, I think I think that he thinks he's the star of the show.

1023
00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:24.480
He's like the Ducat of this show, isn't he?

1024
00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:26.579
I guess he is.

1025
00:45:26.699 --> 00:45:27.840
It's not quite as good.

1026
00:45:27.900 --> 00:45:30.000
Bargain basement, you can't.

1027
00:45:30.239 --> 00:45:33.659
Because I feel like it was a pound store.

1028
00:45:33.719 --> 00:45:35.159
Genuinely dangerous.

1029
00:45:35.219 --> 00:45:37.320
Pound shop through car.

1030
00:45:40.380 --> 00:45:44.099
It's nice to have somebody who's a little sly boots, you know, with

1031
00:45:44.099 --> 00:45:45.119
a massive ego.

1032
00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:47.639
Oh yeah, here we go.

1033
00:45:47.699 --> 00:45:48.780
No, he's off to get his drink.

1034
00:45:48.840 --> 00:45:50.340
No, I'm just getting a drink.

1035
00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:52.260
I'm pouring some green liquid.

1036
00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:55.320
I feel as if there could have been some serious tension in this

1037
00:45:55.320 --> 00:45:57.480
scene, but it's just all so obvious.

1038
00:45:57.780 --> 00:45:58.380
Yeah.

1039
00:46:00.300 --> 00:46:02.219
I love as well.

1040
00:46:02.280 --> 00:46:06.119
It's just where he goes, be miles on the tray bout now and just

1041
00:46:06.119 --> 00:46:07.559
leaves all the case on...

1042
00:46:07.619 --> 00:46:08.340
Leaves them all there.

1043
00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:09.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1044
00:46:09.599 --> 00:46:10.800
It's crazy, isn't it?

1045
00:46:10.860 --> 00:46:11.340
Why is that?

1046
00:46:11.460 --> 00:46:14.219
Well, I would have left the train guy there.

1047
00:46:14.280 --> 00:46:16.500
Why don't you just...

1048
00:46:16.500 --> 00:46:19.199
I mean, you're going on about not shifting the balance of power.

1049
00:46:19.260 --> 00:46:20.639
You've left them all there to be killed.

1050
00:46:20.699 --> 00:46:22.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1051
00:46:22.260 --> 00:46:22.559
Yeah.

1052
00:46:22.619 --> 00:46:24.059
Well, she told them to get down.

1053
00:46:24.119 --> 00:46:25.559
I mean, you know, they were sad.

1054
00:46:30.599 --> 00:46:34.079
I don't think we laugh as much ever, you know, when we watch 90s

1055
00:46:34.079 --> 00:46:34.500
trek.

1056
00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:35.639
No.

1057
00:46:35.699 --> 00:46:37.199
It's also absurd.

1058
00:46:38.699 --> 00:46:41.760
There's not enough soap in this stuff, have you noticed?

1059
00:46:41.820 --> 00:46:42.420
No.

1060
00:46:42.420 --> 00:46:44.039
You know, it's all a lot of plot.

1061
00:46:44.159 --> 00:46:49.139
Well, I think that the soap comes from the scenes with seska and

1062
00:46:49.139 --> 00:46:49.500
colour.

1063
00:46:49.559 --> 00:46:50.400
Yeah.

1064
00:46:50.460 --> 00:46:51.179
Yeah.

1065
00:46:51.239 --> 00:46:53.460
Later on when she's got the baby on the bridge.

1066
00:46:53.519 --> 00:46:57.780
That's brilliant Here's your son, Chakotay.

1067
00:46:59.400 --> 00:47:03.300
And so she's trying to make it broader too, isn't she?

1068
00:47:03.360 --> 00:47:07.500
But I really, really like, like, he's right.

1069
00:47:07.559 --> 00:47:08.880
Colour is right here.

1070
00:47:08.940 --> 00:47:12.599
We can't trust this proposal, a woman and a tribe.

1071
00:47:12.659 --> 00:47:17.820
I mean, he's being sexist because, uh, but he's right.

1072
00:47:17.880 --> 00:47:20.280
This sign here, you're allying yourself to the greatest villains.

1073
00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:21.960
This squadrant has ever known.

1074
00:47:22.019 --> 00:47:22.679
That's good.

1075
00:47:22.739 --> 00:47:23.579
That's a good line.

1076
00:47:23.639 --> 00:47:25.920
But are we supposed to be on his side here?

1077
00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:28.800
But no, I think we are.

1078
00:47:28.860 --> 00:47:30.719
I think absolutely he's right.

1079
00:47:30.780 --> 00:47:33.900
So the point of this episode is to make Janeway a massive

1080
00:47:33.900 --> 00:47:34.440
hypocrite.

1081
00:47:34.500 --> 00:47:35.639
Yeah, yeah.

1082
00:47:35.699 --> 00:47:42.480
And the moment that he finishes that line, Maber says, let's go

1083
00:47:42.480 --> 00:47:45.119
get up and leave the room for some reason.

1084
00:47:46.980 --> 00:47:51.360
No, so many Voyager episodes do not stick the landing in the

1085
00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:52.019
climax.

1086
00:47:52.079 --> 00:47:54.480
But this is a great moment when the ship comes down.

1087
00:47:54.539 --> 00:47:58.980
It's really good and I love the special effect. through the

1088
00:47:58.980 --> 00:47:59.219
window.

1089
00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:00.840
Yeah, so...

1090
00:48:01.440 --> 00:48:05.400
It feels like it's got a bit of a bit of scale to it, doesn't it?

1091
00:48:05.460 --> 00:48:06.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1092
00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:11.579
Well, and I think they almost sell this shitty interior with

1093
00:48:11.579 --> 00:48:13.260
that's a big crap.

1094
00:48:13.320 --> 00:48:16.559
There's no actual people in that shot because there's lots of

1095
00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:18.840
breaking glass and they don't want to injure the actors, I guess.

1096
00:48:18.900 --> 00:48:21.780
Oh, I like the fact that when the torpedoes hit the ship, it sort

1097
00:48:21.780 --> 00:48:22.980
of bounces, you know?

1098
00:48:23.699 --> 00:48:25.920
It's really good, isn't it?

1099
00:48:25.980 --> 00:48:30.059
I think it's having ships in, like, because there's real elements

1100
00:48:30.059 --> 00:48:30.780
in that.

1101
00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:32.460
That's not just computer generated.

1102
00:48:32.519 --> 00:48:33.239
They've shot.

1103
00:48:33.360 --> 00:48:36.659
They've taken a camera outdoors, I think, and they've shot the sky

1104
00:48:36.659 --> 00:48:38.460
and the mountains in the background.

1105
00:48:38.460 --> 00:48:42.300
And then they've put the, you know, the ship and the building

1106
00:48:42.300 --> 00:48:43.500
which looks good.

1107
00:48:43.559 --> 00:48:45.480
Like the building's an interesting design.

1108
00:48:46.260 --> 00:48:46.980
I didn't like.

1109
00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:48.900
Jaywig is so mad with him here.

1110
00:48:48.960 --> 00:48:50.880
Get off my ship, though.

1111
00:48:50.940 --> 00:48:52.079
She did to colour before.

1112
00:48:52.139 --> 00:48:55.260
But like, he keeps basically saying, look, I told you who we were

1113
00:48:55.260 --> 00:48:58.559
you know, like, on the terrible things that we did.

1114
00:48:58.619 --> 00:49:00.300
And guess what?

1115
00:49:00.360 --> 00:49:02.699
We kept doing them, you silly, silly person.

1116
00:49:05.760 --> 00:49:08.579
But I think it would have been better.

1117
00:49:08.639 --> 00:49:09.179
I agree.

1118
00:49:09.239 --> 00:49:13.860
I think the fact that she, like I just kept going, he needs to be

1119
00:49:13.860 --> 00:49:15.420
more seriously punished than this.

1120
00:49:15.420 --> 00:49:22.440
And, you know, maybe that's just me being Captain Picard wanting

1121
00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:28.380
the Breckins to kind of lose their drug market or whatever.

1122
00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:33.719
Um, but it would have been more fun if she had rescued all of the

1123
00:49:33.719 --> 00:49:36.659
all of the Kazon and just left the tray behind.

1124
00:49:36.719 --> 00:49:38.340
Oh, wow.

1125
00:49:38.400 --> 00:49:41.280
I think that would have been a more interesting development.

1126
00:49:41.340 --> 00:49:42.960
We just had 2 scenes back to back.

1127
00:49:43.019 --> 00:49:45.480
One, where one person on one side of this argument called her a

1128
00:49:45.480 --> 00:49:48.900
hypocrite and one on the other side of the argument called her

1129
00:49:48.900 --> 00:49:49.619
naive.

1130
00:49:49.679 --> 00:49:52.739
So it's the point of this episode to undermine Jane Wade's

1131
00:49:52.739 --> 00:49:54.599
character. think so.

1132
00:49:54.659 --> 00:49:59.219
And now we get this shitty speech grafted on.

1133
00:49:59.280 --> 00:50:04.559
And so I think that this story is interesting, but I don't think

1134
00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:08.760
it is about what they desperately wanted to be about.

1135
00:50:08.940 --> 00:50:13.320
And so all of this grandstanding at the end and at the beginning

1136
00:50:13.320 --> 00:50:19.260
is undermined by the actual thing, which is she made an alliance

1137
00:50:19.260 --> 00:50:23.159
with some white people because she thought they were sort of

1138
00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:27.780
reasonably similar to her and she made a bad call.

1139
00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:29.880
She allied with the wrong people.

1140
00:50:29.940 --> 00:50:33.659
Rather than her doubling down here and saying, you know, the

1141
00:50:33.659 --> 00:50:36.840
values of the federation are the best principles and allies we can

1142
00:50:36.840 --> 00:50:40.320
have, what she should be saying is, I've really made a mistake.

1143
00:50:40.380 --> 00:50:42.360
Yeah, I got this wrong.

1144
00:50:42.420 --> 00:50:45.239
This appears to be a region of space that doesn't have many rules

1145
00:50:45.239 --> 00:50:45.840
and stuff.

1146
00:50:45.900 --> 00:50:48.179
So she's being sort of xenophobic as well.

1147
00:50:48.239 --> 00:50:51.539
It's kind of like we're not making alliances with people because

1148
00:50:51.539 --> 00:50:53.159
foreigners can't be trusted.

1149
00:50:53.219 --> 00:50:55.739
Is that what we're taking away from this as well?

1150
00:50:55.800 --> 00:51:01.019
But that is the, I mean, there is a thread of that running through

1151
00:51:01.019 --> 00:51:04.980
Voyager, which, you know, once we move it out of the alpha

1152
00:51:04.980 --> 00:51:09.239
quadrant and we're taking delegates to Pacifica and we're having

1153
00:51:09.239 --> 00:51:12.360
you know, like famous scientists on board and we're doing

1154
00:51:12.360 --> 00:51:15.659
diplomatic missions and stuff like that, and now we're just having

1155
00:51:15.659 --> 00:51:20.639
space adventures instead, then Voyager is going to be much more

1156
00:51:20.639 --> 00:51:24.599
about how aliens are our enemies because that's how the show's set

1157
00:51:24.599 --> 00:51:24.900
up.

1158
00:51:24.960 --> 00:51:29.880
Whereas Star Trek, the Next Generation is much more about building

1159
00:51:29.880 --> 00:51:34.199
coalitions and being part of a bigger group and stuff like that.

1160
00:51:34.260 --> 00:51:38.519
So, so, like that is a thread.

1161
00:51:38.579 --> 00:51:42.239
I think there is a sort of thread of kind of conservatism and

1162
00:51:42.239 --> 00:51:44.880
racism that runs through Voyager a bit, I think.

1163
00:51:44.940 --> 00:51:46.980
I guess a little bit troubling, isn't it?

1164
00:51:47.039 --> 00:51:51.659
And then I think that is, um, enhanced when we skip into

1165
00:51:51.659 --> 00:51:52.320
enterprise.

1166
00:51:52.380 --> 00:51:57.119
Yeah. in a very troubling way that put a lot of people off from

1167
00:51:57.119 --> 00:51:57.599
watching it.

1168
00:51:57.659 --> 00:52:00.179
I've got a quote from Jerry Taylor here about that last scene.

1169
00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:01.800
If you'd care to hear it.

1170
00:52:01.980 --> 00:52:04.500
And she goes, I like the dilemma that Janeway was put in.

1171
00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:05.880
I thought that was interesting.

1172
00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:09.059
I regret the final speech I put in her mouth because it comes

1173
00:52:09.059 --> 00:52:10.320
across as exactly that.

1174
00:52:10.380 --> 00:52:14.340
One of those preachy Picard like moments where she has to lecture

1175
00:52:14.340 --> 00:52:17.639
people about the importance of something, but it did seem like a

1176
00:52:17.639 --> 00:52:18.659
good idea at the time.

1177
00:52:18.840 --> 00:52:23.460
Yeah, it just comes across as defensive and petulant and her

1178
00:52:23.460 --> 00:52:28.380
refusing to learn the real lesson and it is just, uh, it's not

1179
00:52:28.380 --> 00:52:29.280
because of the character.

1180
00:52:29.340 --> 00:52:31.199
It's a problem with the writing, isn't it?

1181
00:52:31.260 --> 00:52:34.679
And they can do that as well because there are episodes where

1182
00:52:34.679 --> 00:52:40.380
Janeway sort of muses. especially the decision to keep them in the

1183
00:52:40.380 --> 00:52:41.159
Delta Quadrant.

1184
00:52:41.219 --> 00:52:45.239
So it's not like they're above Janeway questioning herself and the

1185
00:52:45.239 --> 00:52:46.860
poor, poor judgements that she makes.

1186
00:52:46.920 --> 00:52:49.559
I felt, I wonder if it's just because we've only got a single

1187
00:52:49.559 --> 00:52:52.440
scene and it's like, well, we've got to wrap this up and, you know

1188
00:52:52.440 --> 00:52:54.420
we don't want to deal with the case on for another half series.

1189
00:52:54.480 --> 00:52:56.280
So let's just let's just say, right.

1190
00:52:56.340 --> 00:52:57.300
Federation rules great.

1191
00:52:57.360 --> 00:52:59.099
And then moving to threshold.

1192
00:52:59.460 --> 00:53:02.940
Oh, God, which has now started.

1193
00:53:03.360 --> 00:53:06.960
Technically, we are doing a bit of fresh off now, Star Trek

1194
00:53:06.960 --> 00:53:09.420
Project, because I can't wait till we get to that one.

1195
00:53:09.480 --> 00:53:12.360
It's so unpleasant to watch, isn't it?

1196
00:53:12.420 --> 00:53:18.179
It's just like it's not just bad in all sorts of sort of bad ways

1197
00:53:18.179 --> 00:53:20.760
but it's actively just unpleasant to watch.

1198
00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:27.900
You and I, we've done latter Voyager episodes where they were good

1199
00:53:27.900 --> 00:53:33.360
standalone episodes, like, um, the Hirogen 2-parter, you know

1200
00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:36.300
Scorpion, where there were some, there were interesting things

1201
00:53:36.300 --> 00:53:39.179
going on, but they were sort of standalones.

1202
00:53:39.239 --> 00:53:40.139
This is.

1203
00:53:41.579 --> 00:53:45.840
It's flawed, but I think it's far more interesting that they're

1204
00:53:45.840 --> 00:53:48.420
doing something with the quadrant with the balance of power with

1205
00:53:48.420 --> 00:53:51.300
the characters they've established, bringing in secondary

1206
00:53:51.300 --> 00:53:53.820
characters that are going to run through the rest of the season in

1207
00:53:53.820 --> 00:53:54.420
interesting ways.

1208
00:53:54.480 --> 00:53:58.380
You know, somebody, again on Voyager, who's working against them.

1209
00:53:59.099 --> 00:54:01.679
It's an interesting time for the show.

1210
00:54:01.739 --> 00:54:04.440
I just wish they hadn't abandoned it completely.

1211
00:54:04.500 --> 00:54:08.219
I think they would have got better at doing it, the sort of the

1212
00:54:08.219 --> 00:54:09.059
further they went along.

1213
00:54:09.119 --> 00:54:12.179
Yeah, I think we said that about state of flux.

1214
00:54:12.239 --> 00:54:15.840
It seemed to be like just an early premise.

1215
00:54:15.960 --> 00:54:17.579
It seemed very voyagery.

1216
00:54:17.639 --> 00:54:19.079
And that was nice.

1217
00:54:19.139 --> 00:54:23.519
Like I liked that version of the show, the one that culminates, I

1218
00:54:23.519 --> 00:54:26.400
guess, in basics, is fun.

1219
00:54:26.400 --> 00:54:30.119
And in a way, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense as we've seen

1220
00:54:30.119 --> 00:54:36.059
but there is an attempt to just do more than Star Trek the Next

1221
00:54:36.059 --> 00:54:39.119
Generation with a different group of people in a different set of

1222
00:54:39.119 --> 00:54:39.900
sets, I think.

1223
00:54:46.739 --> 00:54:50.639
All right, it's the end of the episode and it is time for us to

1224
00:54:50.639 --> 00:54:54.840
work out what we're going to do next and it's Joe's turn.

1225
00:54:54.900 --> 00:54:57.420
So Joe, how are we choosing this week?

1226
00:54:57.539 --> 00:55:01.079
Wow, I'm going to be utterly predictable.

1227
00:55:01.139 --> 00:55:05.219
We're not leaving 90s trek and I'm not going to do all of them.

1228
00:55:05.280 --> 00:55:06.780
No, I just love it.

1229
00:55:06.840 --> 00:55:08.639
I want to do another DS9. so sorry.

1230
00:55:08.699 --> 00:55:09.179
Okay, cool.

1231
00:55:09.239 --> 00:55:12.780
Yeah, I don't think we've been there for a sort of 5 or 6 now.

1232
00:55:12.840 --> 00:55:14.880
We get a couple of Kurtzman's.

1233
00:55:14.940 --> 00:55:19.199
We've done a Voyager, our next gen, and an original series since

1234
00:55:19.199 --> 00:55:20.460
the last time we did this.

1235
00:55:20.519 --> 00:55:20.820
I think.

1236
00:55:20.880 --> 00:55:22.260
No, no, let's do that.

1237
00:55:22.320 --> 00:55:23.820
I think that'll be really fun. absolutely.

1238
00:55:23.940 --> 00:55:24.539
Okay.

1239
00:55:24.599 --> 00:55:26.340
Let me just get rid of all the others.

1240
00:55:26.940 --> 00:55:28.860
Okay.

1241
00:55:29.039 --> 00:55:30.599
So, Bosch.

1242
00:55:31.440 --> 00:55:34.559
Ooh, why?

1243
00:55:34.619 --> 00:55:37.440
So it's in the middle of a big arc.

1244
00:55:37.500 --> 00:55:38.699
Oh, okay.

1245
00:55:38.760 --> 00:55:43.679
Your random Star Trek D Space 9 episode is Rocks and Shoals. season

1246
00:55:43.679 --> 00:55:44.280
6.

1247
00:55:44.340 --> 00:55:45.780
Ooh, episode two.

1248
00:55:46.320 --> 00:55:48.300
Yeah, I remember that.

1249
00:55:48.360 --> 00:55:53.820
Now, we aren't doing all 6 of those in one episode.

1250
00:55:53.940 --> 00:55:59.280
But that does mean that that's a way in to kind of talk about that

1251
00:55:59.280 --> 00:56:00.840
six-part run.

1252
00:56:00.900 --> 00:56:02.460
And I remember rocks and shoals.

1253
00:56:02.519 --> 00:56:03.420
I think it's a good episode.

1254
00:56:03.480 --> 00:56:06.840
It is a really good episode, but I'll never do the 1st one, so I'm

1255
00:56:06.840 --> 00:56:07.559
not sorry.

1256
00:56:07.619 --> 00:56:08.699
Okay.

1257
00:56:08.760 --> 00:56:13.019
Your random Star Trek Deep Space 9 episode is season five, episode

1258
00:56:13.019 --> 00:56:13.739
five.

1259
00:56:13.800 --> 00:56:14.340
Oh, God.

1260
00:56:14.400 --> 00:56:15.719
The assignment.

1261
00:56:15.780 --> 00:56:17.699
Keiko O'Brien goes bad.

1262
00:56:19.260 --> 00:56:22.079
It's the 1st one with the power race.

1263
00:56:23.400 --> 00:56:25.739
He plays it brilliantly.

1264
00:56:25.800 --> 00:56:28.679
But it is how...

1265
00:56:28.800 --> 00:56:34.980
So this, we talked about it because in PowerPlay, Miles is um

1266
00:56:34.980 --> 00:56:40.739
Miles is threatening Molly and Keiko in 10 forward, and then in

1267
00:56:40.739 --> 00:56:43.739
the assignment, She's threatening Molly, isn't she?

1268
00:56:43.800 --> 00:56:45.300
And brushing her hair.

1269
00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:46.980
Yes, that hurts.

1270
00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:51.599
I do like that. don't know if I want to do that.

1271
00:56:51.719 --> 00:56:53.820
Oh, so can.

1272
00:56:53.880 --> 00:56:57.059
But it's not very typical, but it is pretty great.

1273
00:56:58.079 --> 00:57:00.300
You know, I'm going to press it again.

1274
00:57:00.360 --> 00:57:00.780
I'm sorry.

1275
00:57:00.840 --> 00:57:02.340
Do you know what?

1276
00:57:02.400 --> 00:57:06.239
I would really love to wax lyrical about Rosalind Chow as well.

1277
00:57:06.300 --> 00:57:07.260
We'll get to it.

1278
00:57:07.320 --> 00:57:09.659
Ooh, I would like to do this one.

1279
00:57:09.719 --> 00:57:11.039
Oh, okay, good.

1280
00:57:11.099 --> 00:57:11.400
Okay.

1281
00:57:11.519 --> 00:57:13.980
But it is season 7 again.

1282
00:57:14.039 --> 00:57:15.300
Yep, that's all right.

1283
00:57:15.360 --> 00:57:17.400
Okay, this isn't part of an even bigger arc.

1284
00:57:17.460 --> 00:57:18.539
Oh.

1285
00:57:18.599 --> 00:57:19.860
Oh, it's the end, is it?

1286
00:57:19.920 --> 00:57:21.119
Yeah, part of the last 10.

1287
00:57:21.119 --> 00:57:23.340
It would be the 1st time we've got into the end as well.

1288
00:57:23.400 --> 00:57:28.679
Star Trek D Space 9 episode is season seven, episode 20, the

1289
00:57:28.679 --> 00:57:30.059
changing face of evil.

1290
00:57:30.119 --> 00:57:33.179
I love that title.

1291
00:57:34.079 --> 00:57:36.480
It's our biggie as well.

1292
00:57:36.539 --> 00:57:38.280
There's loads of stuff going on in that.

1293
00:57:38.400 --> 00:57:39.059
Do you remember?

1294
00:57:39.179 --> 00:57:42.179
That's the one where the Defiance destroyed.

1295
00:57:42.239 --> 00:57:45.300
It's the one where wind stabs Sobor.

1296
00:57:45.360 --> 00:57:50.219
It's the one where Damar turns against the Dominion in that

1297
00:57:50.219 --> 00:57:51.599
fabulous speech at the end.

1298
00:57:51.599 --> 00:57:54.780
And it's also the one where Keiko cooks Cisco's peppers.

1299
00:57:54.840 --> 00:57:56.340
That sounds perfect.

1300
00:57:56.400 --> 00:57:59.039
I'm sold You had near the peppers.

1301
00:57:59.099 --> 00:58:02.340
I mean, I would I would love to go into one of these sort of big

1302
00:58:02.340 --> 00:58:04.980
arcs and this is sort of smack bang in the middle as well.

1303
00:58:05.039 --> 00:58:12.840
There's sort of 3 episodes before this. where all the plots sort

1304
00:58:12.840 --> 00:58:15.719
of rumble, and then this is the episode where...

1305
00:58:15.719 --> 00:58:16.800
This is where they come to a hit.

1306
00:58:16.860 --> 00:58:20.340
All of those plots are sort of, yeah, brought to a big sort of

1307
00:58:20.340 --> 00:58:20.820
twist.

1308
00:58:20.880 --> 00:58:24.000
And then that leads us into the 2nd half of the arc.

1309
00:58:24.059 --> 00:58:24.960
Right, brilliant.

1310
00:58:25.019 --> 00:58:26.039
All right, that sounds perfect.

1311
00:58:26.099 --> 00:58:27.300
There'll be a lot to say.

1312
00:58:27.360 --> 00:58:28.260
Maybe a lot to say.

1313
00:58:28.320 --> 00:58:28.800
Excellent.

1314
00:58:37.860 --> 00:58:41.039
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1315
00:58:41.039 --> 00:58:42.179
and Nathan Bottomley.

1316
00:58:42.239 --> 00:58:45.420
Well, online at untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find

1317
00:58:45.420 --> 00:58:49.019
links to our Twitter, mastered on Facebook and YouTube channel.

1318
00:58:49.079 --> 00:58:52.199
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was

1319
00:58:52.199 --> 00:58:53.760
composed by Cameron Lamb.

1320
00:58:53.820 --> 00:58:58.320
This episode was recorded on the 4th of July 2023 and released on

1321
00:58:58.320 --> 00:58:59.159
the 7th of July.

1322
00:58:59.219 --> 00:59:03.659
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Deep Space 9, the changing

1323
00:59:03.659 --> 00:59:04.619
face of evil.

1324
00:59:22.679 --> 00:59:24.599
Well, you have the last word at once.

1325
00:59:26.159 --> 00:59:27.780
Oh, you sure?

1326
00:59:27.780 --> 00:59:29.099
Oh, God, let me turn this last one.

1327
00:59:29.099 --> 00:59:30.119
Next way.

1328
00:59:30.179 --> 00:59:31.739
Oh, my God.

1329
00:59:31.739 --> 00:59:33.360
Coffs his tongue up and stuff.

1330
00:59:33.420 --> 00:59:34.440
It's so yucky.

1331
00:59:35.219 --> 00:59:37.079
Fucking hell.

1332
00:59:37.139 --> 00:59:37.980
Who wants to watch that?

1333
00:59:38.039 --> 00:59:42.119
And it's the worst, Robert, going on about, like, with, like, all

1334
00:59:42.119 --> 00:59:44.159
the later characters in the world.

1335
00:59:44.219 --> 00:59:46.739
We haven't done like a full on Paris episodes.

1336
00:59:46.800 --> 00:59:48.360
There's plenty of them.

1337
00:59:48.480 --> 00:59:51.840
That thing where he's moaning about, whether his father loves him

1338
00:59:51.840 --> 00:59:55.559
as well, like that's the other sort of emotional arc of that

1339
00:59:55.559 --> 00:59:58.320
episode, it's just like so grotesque.

1340
00:59:58.380 --> 01:00:00.360
Oh, bad.

1341
01:00:00.420 --> 01:00:01.440
What were you thinking?

1342
01:00:01.860 --> 01:00:04.079
No, but it's bad.

1343
01:00:04.139 --> 01:00:08.039
Like, I acknowledge that people think Genesis is bad and they're

1344
01:00:08.039 --> 01:00:13.739
sort of wrong, but they're not crazy, but this is really, like

1345
01:00:13.739 --> 01:00:17.940
threshold is properly bad in that just, ugh.

1346
01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:19.500
It's like coarse oblivion.

1347
01:00:19.559 --> 01:00:21.179
It's just like, fuck.

1348
01:00:21.239 --> 01:00:22.619
Why do I want to watch that?

1349
01:00:22.679 --> 01:00:24.599
Yeah, and demon.

1350
01:00:25.079 --> 01:00:26.940
Yeah, yeah.

1351
01:00:27.000 --> 01:00:32.280
He's in actually, uh, Tom Solinski's in sort of mid-season 5 now.

1352
01:00:32.699 --> 01:00:37.079
I think it's Goodwill, 7 of line coming in as depleted because

1353
01:00:37.079 --> 01:00:39.119
there are some absolute clangors.

1354
01:00:39.179 --> 01:00:43.800
I mean, I think that season 5 is generally quite strong, but yeah

1355
01:00:43.800 --> 01:00:46.920
the more he's going through it, he's going, yeah, was he just

1356
01:00:46.920 --> 01:00:48.059
doing nothing human?

1357
01:00:48.119 --> 01:00:49.500
Just tedious.

1358
01:00:50.880 --> 01:00:54.900
But then he didn't, he said counterpoint was nothing special.

1359
01:00:54.960 --> 01:00:56.219
I think that's right.

1360
01:00:56.280 --> 01:00:57.780
No, I think it's good.

1361
01:00:57.900 --> 01:00:58.980
It's probably well written.

1362
01:00:59.039 --> 01:01:00.480
Yeah, good performance.

1363
01:01:01.380 --> 01:01:02.940
All right.

1364
01:01:02.940 --> 01:01:04.320
Okay, I'll do the intro.

1365
01:01:04.980 --> 01:01:09.420
The guy who plays Jonas is called Raphael's barge.

1366
01:01:10.139 --> 01:01:11.699
Great.

1367
01:01:11.699 --> 01:01:12.719
I have a work he's done.

1368
01:01:12.780 --> 01:01:14.400
Should have kept him around.

1369
01:01:14.460 --> 01:01:15.300
How do you say it?

1370
01:01:15.840 --> 01:01:17.880
Dahmer and Greg.

1371
01:01:17.940 --> 01:01:19.619
Will and Grace charmed.

1372
01:01:20.099 --> 01:01:22.139
He's been in everything.

1373
01:01:22.199 --> 01:01:22.860
24.

1374
01:01:23.039 --> 01:01:24.300
Is that guy?

1375
01:01:24.360 --> 01:01:26.039
He isn't that guy.

1376
01:01:26.159 --> 01:01:27.119
He's good.

1377
01:01:27.420 --> 01:01:29.699
He's in Quantum Leap.

1378
01:01:30.480 --> 01:01:34.260
Um, Seaquest DSV.

1379
01:01:34.320 --> 01:01:34.980
Murder she wrote.

1380
01:01:35.099 --> 01:01:35.460
There you go.

1381
01:01:36.119 --> 01:01:38.519
Yeah, but they've all been in that.

1382
01:01:38.579 --> 01:01:40.559
Kate Mulgar has done free of those.

1383
01:01:43.079 --> 01:01:45.239
All right, let's go.

1384
01:01:45.599 --> 01:01:48.239
All right, it's the end of the episode.