Hey, Joe. Hi.
So, we are at the very end of Star Trek, the Next Generation, it's
the end of series 7, and we are mere weeks away from all good
things, and we are watching Genesis, 4 episodes from the end, isn't
it?
It's pretty close.
So it's episode 19, and of course, the end is a two-parter.
So we're very, very close to the end of 7 years.
And we've spoken about series 7 of Star Trek, the next generation
show, aren't we?
So I think that what's happened is that we've decided instead of
discovering that data has a long lost auntie or something this
week.
We are going to just go all out sort of balls to the wall, be
movie schlock.
And that is something that Star Trek has in its DNA.
And I think, you know, one of the, or at least sort of encoded in
some of its introns probably.
But if you watch sort of a random episode of Star Trek, the Next
Generation, you aren't probably going to get sophisticated science
fiction or even tense, interesting science fiction like the Corba
might maneuver or spectra of the gun or stuff that we've done.
And very frequently, you'll just get sort of B movie stuff.
And that's our kind of dark secret.
There's a lot of B movie DNA in Star Trek, and we kind of backport
all the politics and the utopian socialism and stuff to it.
And so here, it's proper B movie, Star Trek, and it's not very
popular, I think.
Not with me anyway, given the 200 messages I'll send you whilst I
was watching this episode.
I personally think that the next generation has given up at this
point at attempting to give us anything.
There's even reasonable television at this point.
I mean, I said to you.
I said, they're stupid and then there's this.
And the trouble is, is I know, I know you say that they're trying
to be stupid, right?
But I can't tell the difference between the next generation trying
to be stupid and just really fucking stupid.
So what I think is what I think is happening here is Star Trek the
Next Generation and original Star Trek are the only shows that can
do this because they're super light on premise.
They're just Star Trek.
And so the backdrop to Star Trek for the next generation is the
24th century, and all the characters are just their jobs.
And so turning them all into monsters for a week, while it's
stupid, doesn't ruin the characters.
And we can see that because they're still functional 30 years
later in Picard Series 3.
How the hell did I not have serious trauma after this episode?
But that's the point, though, isn't it?
Because Geordie didn't have massive trauma the week after identity
crisis.
And the week after Pulaski got turned into an old lady and then
got better at the end of the episode, she didn't have trauma after
that.
And Picard had a bit of light trauma after becoming a Borg and
then not being a Borg.
And Deanna didn't have any trauma also about becoming an old lady
and then dying and then getting better.
And we come to a point where we don't believe these characters are
in any danger whatsoever.
And I think that's why we had a reaction with the next spinoff.
That's why we have the reaction that we did.
Let's set them in a single location and have fucking
consequences.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that's more interesting than this bollocks, but the same, but
but, except that in a way, Star Trek actually functions as an
anthology show, because it's unbelievable that this stuff happens
to people on a weekly basis or like every fortnight, and it's the
thing that lower decks makes fun of, isn't it?
You know, like it's hard work to be on the Titan or the Enterprise
because every week you're sucked into a parallel universe or
you're travelling back in time to meet God or something really
ludicrous is happening.
And that's what lower decks is making fun of.
It's making fun of trying to treat what is essentially an
anthology series, as if it's serious drama about a group of people
who live in the 24th century.
This would have made a brilliant lower decks episode.
What you need is when Barclay pops up is for Maronets to go, oh my
god, it's a great big spider thing.
Yeah, yeah.
And in fact, you've got Picard and Data walking around like it's a
serious bit of drama.
But I don't think they are walking around like it's a serious
drama at all.
You can see Patrick Stewart thinking, my career.
Well, I'll never work again.
You see, I actually think this plays very differently with normies
than it does with fans because I think that this is memorable high
concept schlock and that people find it fun.
And the people who are put off by it, other people who think that
these are functional characters, the people who think that this is
a kind of serious science fiction drama about issues and
continuity and stuff, whereas what Brannan Braga, is doing is just
saying, let's do some B movie schlock and everyone will really
remember it.
And it's...
Probably so, is that we've had sub-Rosa in this season.
We've had masks in this season.
Yeah, we've had phantasms in this season.
And we're going to have, you know, emergence with the magical
brick in the holodeck this season.
And it's just too much. parallel enough.
They're not doing enough preemptive strikes or lower decks or
things like that.
They are literally just going, all right, well let's just have
some fun with these characters for a week and get this season out
of the way and then we can make them. do something else.
I think that's a fair criticism.
And because it's either this or it's Data's mother turns up from
the past.
You know, they're the 2 things that they've got going for them in
series 7.
But like my big issue with this.
I just don't think I've seen some B movies in my time.
I just don't think this is a very good B movie.
It's really quite boring.
They just wander around the ship, find each monster.
And then it ends.
There's no narrative to this at all.
And I feel the performances of the, well, God, every time you ask
an ensemble in Star Trek, to start acting out a character, you're
in trouble.
And you've got some pretty dodgy, you've got Barclay doing some
weird twitchy spider thing, but I just couldn't watch.
And Reich, I forget in his lines or not.
And Troy, desperate for a glass of water.
I mean, all these people are acting bizarrely out of character and
no one's going.
Do you think something's going on here?
You know, like...
We've been doing this for 7 years, you know?
Yeah, but everyone's too busy turning into a fish themselves.
Do you know what I mean?
To notice anyone else turning into a lemur or whatever.
Real joy I could get out of this was what weird thing are we going
to see next?
and it's few and far between.
You had a couple of good shock moments, the occasional good makeup
job.
But other than that, it's just walking around the Dark Enterprise
the end.
And that's just not fun to watch.
Yeah, I like the people compare this to threshold.
And I think threshold is genuinely a slog and genuinely a bad
piece of television and it's incompetently done.
And it's partly...
But it's worth it, you know, for that animated serious Voyager, a
thing they did with the lizards.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That was amazing.
No, but the, I mean, the thing, the thing about it, though, is
that it centres the worst, Robert.
It tries to make a point about his relationship with his father
which is just kind of grotesque, given the context.
Whereas this is just, we're going to do a big monster film.
And I think it's well directed by Gates McFadden.
I think it's actually...
Yeah, no, I think I think that there's some...
She gets her shop moments, right?
There's too much moments where you could literally jump out of
your seat.
Yep, I think there's 2 goods very scary.
I think she does decent atmosphere as well.
Like they turn the lights down, at least.
Yeah, well, there you go.
That's better than 80% of Star Trek.
Sorry, can I return us to a point I made in a previous episode.
I believe it was power play.
Yeah.
I'm not sure Star Trek, the Next Generation, is actually any
good.
Or I certainly don't think it is the all conquering classic of
repute.
We've done quite a lot of these now, and I know there's some good
stuff in there.
I know there is.
I don't think it's aged particularly well.
It's just that it was huge at the time.
And it was the thing that normal people watched.
I remember going to like gay bars in the 1990s and people were
watching Star Trek, the next generation on the big screen at the
bar.
You know, this was huge in a way that no other Star Trek really
has been apart from the original.
And even the stuff that we love, things like Deep Space 9 and
Voyager, things like Strange New Worlds, don't have a fraction of
the audience that Star Trek the Next Generation had.
But it's much...
No, no.
And like Star Trek has a dodgy 1st season, a dodgy 2nd season, and
then it peters out in season.
Yeah, that's right.
That's free of four, you know?
Exactly.
And so on the whole, if you kind of go to the randomiser and pick
a Star Trek episode, you've got an even chance of getting
something that's a dud, I think.
But this was so important and this created the world that the
other things come from.
And we're still celebrating this show in 2023 with...
Which is great, but I do think it is trading on a reputation
rather than a very good television show.
And I think if a lot of people go back and watch this, it's that
glow of nostalgia that engages them, not the fact that this is
really good television.
Yeah, but I think we've kind of told ourselves, this is great
television, but actually, I just, I think at least half of the
next generation is pretty goddamn dreary.
I'm not sure that I would call Star Trek great television.
But I think it's pretty fun and I have very fond memories of it.
I'm still on board with this one.
I think there are some funny scenes and funny performances in the
1st half.
I think there's some genuine creepiness in the 2nd half and I
think it has a massive joke at its own expense at the very end in
the final scene.
So I think, because there's a type of skin, you're asking the
audience to swallow a law to say, for one week, we've just de
evolved the crew, and then between scenes.
We've reevolved them all again and everyone's having a jolly
laugh.
No, in fact, there's a hilarious scene where data is speeding up
the, like, the cellular substitution or the, like, the ribosome
substitution or whatever the hell it is.
And like the things are going even faster and they're changing
Alyssa back even quicker.
It's preposterous.
But the thing is that it was aiming for that.
And there's always... when they did this better.
They did this better with raw schools, all right?
When they...
Rascals is hilarious and it's fun and it's engaging and it's
silly.
Yep.
Yeah, yeah.
This is not a lot.
No, I think that Rascals is better than this, but I don't think
that this is the disaster that everyone says it is.
And I don't think it was shooting for serious, plausible science
fiction and just missing an accident.
No, of course it wasn't.
One of my mates came at me, you know.
I'm talking about this.
I'm afraid and it's proven to be very divisive.
You know, one person loves it.
One person hates it.
One of them said, I think they genuinely thought they were making
a piece of drama.
I was like, well, if that is the case, then...
I mean, you know that they weren't.
You know that they weren't.
I mean, you know.
I mean, you know, I was always sort of on board.
I know, okay, a second.
I was almost on board with this. an amiable couple of scenes and
then everyone's signed tracks a bit weird and then they're dodgy
acting here.
But then that bit where Troy comes jumping out of that mouth.
The frog.
Paul Marina, so to say, going, I'm like, oh, Jesus Christ, the
laws.
I mean, I don't think at any point, any of these actors are asked
to do anything more ridiculous than this.
Yeah, yeah, sometimes they are.
Um, I think they're really, I think really the telling thing is
that I went to Jama, because I knew that he would just give it one
because of course he would.
He gave it half star, didn't he?
No, I think he gave it one.
I gave it a half star one. reviewed it on my side.
Well, that's madness.
But I, um, he actually says lots of good things about the
beginning of the episode, and it's kind of like he feels like he
has to give it one star because it's not proper serious Star Trek
which is very important to him.
And then the comments thread is full of people going, actually, I
really quite like this or this is a guilty pleasure or this is
kind of fun.
And I think that's what it's going for.
Please, me no end, you know, when I went on memory alpha, and I
was like, yeah, this appears on this media critiques top 10 list.
I need appears on this.
Star Trek ever.
No, no, no, no. of best.
Best episodes.
The best episodes of the next show. then it appears on this media
critics list of the what.
So this is like, you know, this is the divisive one, I think, of
this season.
You're either totally on board with this, you or...
Well, I'm not totally on board with it.
It's not Dharmok, right?
It's disposable.
I mean...
What is he trying to say?
No, it's absolutely not trying to say anything.
Any more than some bro.
Brush your DNA, all right.
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.
You know, it is like some rosa.
It is just absurd and grotesque and incredibly memorable and
they'll be...
No, stop, Rosa.
Beverly Crusher masturbate into a ghost.
I know, it's pretty great.
Oh, it's Brad and Broker as well, wouldn't it?
You know, it's just a piss this season isn't he?
Yeah, yeah.
He did Deanna Troy as the birthday cake.
Do you remember when Data's trying to cut over the noise?
Trying to sell you a peptide cake.
He's like, Ralph, ideas. just gonna have fun.
Yeah.
Yeah, no that's exactly it.
And I think there is some fun to be had.
All right.
I will count it in.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.
So here we are in a day in the life of Dr. Beverly Crusher.
So I really like this scene.
I think it's there's funny stuff.
We're doing the camera thing.
Riker's talking about trying to get it on with a new tactical
officer in the arboretum and then he rolls over and we see the
spines in his back immediately.
She starts picking them out.
A total hyperchondract.
The camera is roving around.
It's really good.
So this is games McFadden.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And and it's funny, it's enjoyable.
And Beverly's performance is really good.
Yeah, she should be directing herself every week.
Because it's not just, like, she's she's a little bit
exasperated.
She's given some funny stuff about Reg, you know, self-diagnosing
using WebMD and stuff.
Oh, look at this.
This ain't Dr. Boo.
This is good.
It's much more like Gates.
I love Barclay picking up the medical tricorder backwards and
scanning himself and then handing it to her.
But you know, every other time we go to Sick Bay, there's never
anyone in there.
No, it has to be a very busy day that we're dropping out.
Actually, no, they could have done a whole episode, couldn't
they?
Just like day as day.
Yeah, yeah, Bev's day.
Yeah.
No, I think she's good.
And I loved, so I think data comes in now with spot.
Is that happening?
And the way that she is with Jada.
But look at her put her arm around data and walk him in.
It's so warm.
It's got a lot of chemistry between the legs.
Yeah.
Yeah, haven't we?
Yeah.
Look, this was a good scene.
This was a good scene.
I think that's great.
This ain't nothing to do with the plot, is it?
Well, no, but this is this is where the thing happens.
This is where the thing happens.
My capillaries are shrinking.
Do you know he's only in 5 episodes of Star Trek the Next
Generation.
Yeah.
I think one about before HR.
I think he is in as many episodes of Voyager. as Voyager.
And yeah, he's a legacy character.
Like, you don't forget him.
No, he's great.
And it's Dwight Schultz, you know, like he is a proper TV actor.
He's a get, you know, and he's funny.
I think he performs.
He's very funny.
Do you remember when he started doing that weird sort of, uh, style
of acting in Voyager?
You know, It's very strange.
I don't know, he just, I think he slips in here because he's
supposed to be the one dysfunctional member of the crew, isn't
he?
Yeah, yeah.
And there's a, like the last joke is at his expense and at the
show's expense, I think.
So that's kind of cool.
So remember he's someone who was a genius and his brain spilled
out into the holodeck and it was a huge giant thing.
Yeah, I love that one.
We had all those beans all week is just okay.
That's right And yeah, that wonderful one where he was scared of
transport.
And you finally got to see the transporter from the POV of the
person experiencing.
Yeah, that was very strange.
Realm of fear, I think.
Oh, and this, I think, like, look, look, look at Beverly.
Look at that warmth.
You know, Alyssa O'Gower is pregnant here.
Doesn't she lose the baby?
In, yeah, awfully in, um, all good things.
Yeah, that's...
So they travel back in time, that's awful.
But that's the other thing too, that they're doing here that they
should have been doing all along and that their idea that, you
know, this was just a show about these people and these people
were their jobs.
So we basically have the 7 main people and no one else ever does
or says anything.
In this, we get Barclay and Alyssa, and Alyssa gets some
development, we mention Andrew, who gets them mention in the
episode lower day.
I think we meet him, but he does.
We get lots of mentions.
No, no, she's the one who encourages Alyssa to go on the date with
him as well in another episode.
Yeah, that's right.
So that's a kind of running thing and there could have been more
of that.
And we get this weird kind of approach towards the Deanna wharf
relationship.
Don't get me started on that.
Like, I think that could have worked, but the fact is, yeah
because they're opposite to each other and that's kind of fun.
There's no chemistry there.
Ain't going to worry about chemistry.
Well, I think they do a good job of their scene together in this
but I also think that they would be funny because she would be
able to kind of mock him a little bit the way that Dax does.
I think that now you're talking chemistry.
Yeah, that's right.
There was so much chemistry and they weren't even going to write
that romance and they were like, no, look, we've got something.
Yeah, we have to do it.
Put it in, like you said about reacting to things.
Yeah, yeah.
But they're all doing it because it's series 7 and they don't have
to worry about any consequences of it and in this...
Imagine what we could have been in series 7.
If this was happening in 2 and 3 where they were building up this
incredible array of secondary characters.
Yeah, they're just not doing it, you know, Voyagers doesn't
successfully do it either.
You remember when Death Night ends and they have to have 10
episodes just to tick off every character. that's right.
Can I ask you then, is every other director, you know, who's not
gays move better than saying to Gates McFadden, look, you'll be a
bit too naturalistic, all right?
Can you be more robotic?
Yeah, I don't know what it is.
It's weird, isn't it?
I think that she relaxes as the show is ending.
And in fact, I read a great article today in which Frakes and
Stuart both talked about what it was like watching themselves do
the early episodes and how awkward and...
Yeah, yeah. especially Stuart.
Yeah.
But, you know, Frakes as well.
And Frank says that he felt awkward, you know, doing it and they
you know, they were wearing spandex and stuff.
I actually like what's happening here too, because what's
happening isn't in the script, maybe it is.
But both Picard and and Riker are massively bored by this and
they're doing it because Worf wants to show it off and they're
super bored.
Oh, sorry, we're not talking about the episode, are you?
You're talking about it.
No, no.
I mean, look at look at how Stewart's playing it and it's because
he's so bored with all of this nonsense that he goes off to chase
the torpedoes.
So he doesn't listen to wharf.
One excuse. for him to let, like, they don't usually ever let the
captain leave the ship.
He's just like, no, I'm off, right?
But it's actually quite well played because he just says, I'm the
captain.
I'm not needed for this.
I'm going.
I'm quite a good pilot myself, he says.
Like, I think that exchange actually sells it enough.
And just the fact that they're absolutely bored, rigid by this.
Yeah.
Even for your newly adapted phases, Mr. Wolf.
Oh, and then Data tries to give him a way out and goes, no, the
asteroid field is unusually denser.
So they can.
So you know what?
Actually, their banter is a bit better than it's not great, but it
is a bit better than the voyage band, so.
Wait, it's not actually banter because it is just kind of
dialogue.
It's functional dialogue, but because they're relaxed with each
other and because they've been doing it for ages.
I mean, look at Riker.
He's absolutely indicating with that smile, I know what you're
doing and that's fine.
Okay?
Like ordinarily I wouldn't let you go. establishing a day in the
life of Dr. Bev.
A day in the life of the bridge, you know, normal things
occurring.
Yeah.
And now everyone starts behaving in a very peculiar way.
No, because we have this other really sweet scene where Barclay is
given spot to look after.
Oh, I do like the reference that the spot has been mauling certain
members of the crew.
That's right.
There have been injuries and I think it's delightful that Barclay
is the one person, the, you know, the inept, the sort of socially
inept Mr. Barclay is good with spot, but the only one who is.
Do you think Bram has still got a bit of energy here in Israel?
come the Enterprise days.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I, I, spot, spot changes gender. doesn't he?
He changes sex.
He's a he.
I think sometimes. too much attention.
A she for, yeah, yeah, for.
Maybe Data didn't look and then discovered when she was pregnant
she was ashamed.
She was not hanging out with the characters.
This is what we like.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Not hanging out with them behaving like spider people and
amphibians, though.
Well, you've got to do a story eventually.
Do you know, like we've already determined this with DSL.
You can just hang around for an episode.
It's quite fun. you can't on Star Trek.
I love this.
And I remember my friend Kate when the question was, who's the
father saying, I don't know, but we suspect it was Commander
Riker.
It's come out with a dark beard, you know.
I like the fact that there are 13 male cats roaming about the
ship.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But we haven't seen him, McCargo Bay, where they're all just
hanging out together.
They all turn into iguanas.
Do you know, isn't it?
Famously, Brent Spiner hated the cat, didn't he?
Didn't he say when he came back, I goes, I just don't want to do
any more scenes with that bloody cat, all right?
I think it's because the cat got more attention than he did.
I like this scene as well because Worf is now starting to lose
it.
But I like the, I like the... can you, must you stand so close to
me, line?
and then Riker kind of, uh, okay.
And then he pulls himself back.
Like, I think that's actually quite fun.
See, this was the point where, where, you know, the, the cliche
officer should be like, hang on a minute.
He's very irritable.
Oh, this scene here, I really dislike this scene.
Oh no, I like this scene a lot.
Stuff in his face.
And then poor old Marina's having to guzzle down as many glasses
of water as possible because she's turning into a fish.
Yep, but what's funny about it is the way that they play it like
irritable, irritable married couple, like they're like a married
couple.
It's as if they've been together forever and they're just shitting
one another now.
It's just like, must you eat caviare at lunch and, you know, do
you have to do this and stuff?
Like, I just found the interrupt.
Well, it's not.
Oh, no, no.
It was it was in that weird mystery they do together.
Oh, no, that's where you find out they're married or something
like that.
Yeah, they do they do a murder mystery episode where they they
both work on it and get close in that.
I think that's very happen.
I think it might have been just before this.
But it is, they go at it through sort of stupid science fiction
things like this because they can't commit to it properly.
I just imagine switching on at this point and just kind of, no, I'm
out.
Yeah, see, I think that's part of the problem too.
And I think it is the science fiction fans fear that our show is
stupid and what will happen if mum comes in and sees us watching
it and goes, oh, God, this is awful, which is, I have a trauma
about from Arc of Infinity, like a terrible doctor episode.
That's fear that this show is stupid.
But I love how annoyed they are at each other. because it just and
it gives Marina the chance to be just annoying as well and
irritating.
Do you know what I mean?
It's like, She's not being a good girl for once. some genre of
people acting hideously out of character.
It never really lands for me.
I can't I can't think of many occasions.
Yeah, they're pretty good at playing the roles they play, but then
you ask them to do it all a bit heightened and, you know.
Except that except that I actually like when Marina gets the
chance to be naughty, like she does in The Loss, like she does in
Man of the People, and like she does here.
Now, this is a massively shit blow effort scene.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
She's like kind of dismissive and impatient and stuff.
Yeah, this scene is just...
I got to say, I don't.
Oh, that's so great shit about that.
Oh yeah, Wolf tearing up his horse.
We had this, didn't we?
There's no one episode where he tear up the bar.
Remember?
Yeah, yeah, but this is pathetic though.
Look at that, look at it.
Like it's like, Michael, just run around.
All of those.
Acting classes back at college were worth it, you know. tear up
the bed.
And look what's the bed made of?
Like, what's happening there?
She's pre-rib.
And it's like, oh, just get as much of it as you can grab in one
hand, Michael.
He's a wild animal because his hair is falling about all over the
place.
Actually, his hair looks great, I have to say, but that's a super
low effort scene.
Oh, and we go into a commercial break.
Dwight Schultz doing his spider acting now.
So he's saying all of his lines in a very fast or speedy, twitchy
sort of way.
But it just comes across as bad acting to me.
No, no, it's Dwight being fabulous because Dwight's really good.
And I love, I actually love Riker being dumb.
Like, I just think it's super hilarious, and it's partly because
everyone on Star Trek is so competent and so defined by their
competence.
Having him say lines that are sort of, are the sort of thing that
Captain Shaw might say in Picard series 3 is funny, like early.
He kind of goes, you know, what about that security thing?
Well, you do that?
You know, like the kind of, he just can't keep track of anything.
Yeah.
Now, I think they're setting something up and I think that what
might happen is that they run out of time or money and they end up
cutting in from the final episode.
Well, I did read on memory Alpha.
They said, if this happened before Christmas. they had the
Christmas break to prepare all the makeup.
They never would have got this done.
Right, right.
Like it probably would have been tossed in the bin and, you know
god damn Christmas.
Yeah, see, I didn't quite like this too, because again, it's the 2
of them fighting like a married couple.
Yeah, in public and they're clearly, clearly there is something
wrong with the 2 of them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it's Star Trek.
See, I like live with it where he says, you know, you cannot keep
saying it's Star Trek, like that's an excuse.
It is an excuse.
This is this is very television-y. can be good.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it so often isn't.
And this is...
Choked on my drink.
Why are we doing this podcast then?
Because we love it.
I think I think Reg, the thing that Reg is doing with his hands is
already making us think of a spider because he's got these fingers
that are going everywhere, like spider legs.
I think that's what's happening here.
The worst bit is in the conference room where he's doing all that
weird leaning.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What is going on?
Then you've mentioned the rehearsals for this episode.
You've got Riker being really baffled and kind of slow moving and
stuff, which I just think is really funny.
You imagine gates there, just off camera.
Give me a bit more.
Dwight.
Come on.
Yeah, no, look at him trying to feed him something.
I know.
The whole on the left.
It gets his old chess holiday.
I thought that was quite a good scene because the camera just sort
of suddenly glides past him and his chest is smoking and exposed.
Yeah.
Yeah, so do we go to a break here with Riker being a moron?
Like you can't remember anything or can't speak?
No, here we go.
We've got Troy in the bowl.
In her clothes.
Why is she taking her clothes off?
Well, because it's weird because it started, you know, she's...
This scene here, Wolf comes in and is very rapey and starts biting
her in the bath.
I thought this was very old.
Yeah, yeah.
Isn't this a bit weird?
Just looks at him and goes for another glass of water.
And he bites her.
Yeah, that's maybe that was such a great plan.
Yeah.
Oh, no, now, look, we're coming up to one of the 2 great shop
moments of the episode. where Walscott is poisoned sacks.
Although I think Dr. Bev is a bit stupid.
She goes, 0 my God, what's that?
It looks like poison sacks and it goes right in front of his
face.
You deserve it, Dr. Bear.
What sort of a doctor are you?
So Dr. Salara is still on board, which I think is pretty great.
There she is, name checked in series seven.
No, we don't see her after.
No, that is, don't you?
Susie Paxson.
Yeah, yeah.
So we never see her again after the schizoid man in series 2 that
she keeps getting mentioned.
That's right out, Dr. bed, so she can direct the episode.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, it's a little bit.
Do you remember Riker's 1st episode is the offspring, the 1st one
he directs?
The 1st one that freaks directs, and he's really in it.
He picks him up over the comedy scene.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He's like, I'll not have anything to do with that.
Yeah.
But like whilst this is superbly timed, I thought, like when he
suddenly hisses and then she's screaming, you never actually see
the effect, they can't be asked to do a makeup job.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
But I think that would have been too horrific.
But I do think earlier about low effort, I think, still stands.
There's that.
It would have been money, but it's also, like, it's, you know, they
they, they don't show us much of, oh my god.
You see the software?
She's going, oh, oh.
She's not going, oh, oh.
She's screaming at me.
I read just say screaming.
My subtitles say screaming.
Nathan, come on now.
She actually said to him, go on, open your mouth.
But now we get Alissa saying that she's going to need major
reconstructive surgery, which we do during the last commercial
break of the episode so that she can be fine to deliver the final
line.
We do a lot of that, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
But we do a lot of that in Star Trek, to be fair.
Oh, this is agonising.
All of these dreadful acting.
Oh my word.
Barclays, like, he's literally twitching around the room like a
spider.
Pretty rough acting there.
I think but I think Dwight Schultz is actually trying to hold it
together.
She's like, I'm going to be the one person in this scene.
Yeah, yeah, and then she walks off like a gorilla.
Like, look at what she does with her hands on the conference table
room.
But I actually really like Riker being baffled because he's now an
idiot. you know I think that's kind of fun.
Yeah, very odd.
Is it?
Jordan just gets written out of this.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think that they just ran out of time or makeup or latex or
something.
Nathan, I did write a message to you making a good point. you know
this is a ship full of children.
What's happening to them right now?
Well, they're not in this episode.
They're all paying into horrible beasts.
I would love to have seen that in this episode.
So that's the thing.
Because this is, do you know what I mean?
This is a monster movie and so it's ignoring the children in the
way that so many episodes that don't want to deal with the
children, don't deal with them. for the rest of their lives.
There's always a...
Yeah, it was always a stupid idea and that, do you know what I
mean?
I actually had the door open and you saw some of those threshold
lizards just walking by.
It could be the kids, you know?
I like the fact that he banked some of this.
And then when he was stuck for an episode of Voyager. like, oh, you
remember that episode Genesis R did?
You know, I could do something like that again.
Yeah, but it's so, it's so much less, it's so much more of a
slot.
Really interesting because he was involved in macrocosm in Voyager
series 3.
That's when you've got those dreadful CGI box going around the
ship and Janeway's going to all sort of Ripley in a tank top.
But it has them coming back to the ship at the beginning of the
story and then later on you flashback.
Whereas this is doing it the other way around, isn't it?
It's showing you everything.
And now we're going to see the aftermath.
Yeah.
So we get a break, don't we?
But what I think is really good here is something that the show
rarely does, which is this thing.
Look at the enterprise, like going around and around.
And it's a really, really good way of indicating that it's just
abandoned or has completely lost control, the fact that it's
drifting.
And then something's wrong, Mr. Data. you sure so?
to look at the ship.
Yeah.
But I think it's a good way of selling. that because, you know
also all too often.
It's just a two-dimensional space with all the ships at the same
level and all kind of facing in the same direction.
And there is that great bit of dialogue, like match attitude and
rotation.
And so that's all they have to do.
They change the reframe of reference, so it's the same as the
enterprises and so the enterprise isn't rolling anymore.
I thought that that was actually pretty good and like a little
science fiction moment there.
Not that practical shuttle, you know, they have in the bay.
Yeah, yeah.
Mind you, they were doing that as far back as TOS, wasn't it?
We saw that in one of those.
Yeah, like Galileo 7.
Remember where they had the, yeah.
And now all of a sudden, Patrick Stewart's got to start behaving
in a very sort of sheepish manner, hasn't he?
He's suddenly very nervous of everything.
I actually like, so he's scared of everything, but he's still
super brave and does the brave thing.
I'm sure it is not willing to go to the length of Dwight Schultz
and everyone else.
So he's sort of still pitching it in a relatively sort of
unembarrassing way.
But there are some funny lines here, you know, like things that
read a serious just are so absurd because data is saying them, you
know, in this complete deadpan way.
So all of that thing about, you know, where he says what's my
transformation, he says a lemur or some kind of, you know, like
and he's doing it just absolutely straight face despite the fact
that it's so ridiculous.
We have walked about a darkened enterprise, a fair amount in the
last years, you know.
Yeah.
But, you know, we talked about like when does this era of Star
Trek do a monster movie.
Like when does it have a monster attacking people, like ever.
We've had it in strange new worlds.
We've had it in discovery.
But... serial killer count?
No, no, it doesn't.
So it's just, yeah, just like a big monster.
Like the guy in the least dangerous game, you know, the guy who's
hunting Boimler in the least dangerous game.
Like we've never had them humped by a monster around.
She's strangely well, was so good. chilling.
It was so in a way that this just is...
Well, this can't, this can't commit to that.
But it's 90s Star Trek.
It's never going to be visually that interesting.
It's never going to be as gory.
It's, you know, it's just never going to commit to it.
Yeah, it is a shame.
This does go as far as it probably can, I think.
Well, I think just in the makeup.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, I think the spider makeup is pretty goulish, but...
And I'm pretty glad everybody else.
Troy just going hilarious. you're on it.
Yeah, Troy is ridiculous. coming up for this bit now.
So she's got condensation all over a door.
So we know that it's a bit warm in there.
Yeah.
Marina says, I feel for her in this scene where she's having to
gasp at the air with these gills flapping.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's pretty the makeup is actually pretty incredible.
You think?
Yeah, yeah.
Like, it's pretty good for Star Trek makeup.
Yeah, yeah.
But then she's doing this sort of gasping frog thing.
And it is, but it is also that because they're not really
characters and because this is sort of bizarre.
And again, remember what I said about the show, in essence being
an anthology show, that essentially what we have is this week
Marinas are dressed as a frog.
You know, it's just like, there she is.
You think that's good makeup?
I think that looks like a couple of flaps put on her neck.
What's the, what are the, what some dragon's teeth?
What are those monsters called?
Bombardwir.
Yeah, actually there are.
There's a V, all right?
a space name.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's some...
Because I think they could have had another great shock moment
there.
She could have come bursting out of that water and get the life
out of them.
Whereas if they just sort of pull her out.
And then she sort of looks at the ceiling being a frog.
Be a frog trainer. imagine if it's like a frog. really pump that
room full of dry ice.
So it was really steamy and it just comes out of this mist, you
know.
I I laughed out loud when the tricorder comes into shot.
So you've got Patrick there.
You've got Marina being a frog and then you've got Dana shoving a
tricorder into the shop.
Only on Star Trek.
Because honestly, if I was confronted with that situation, I'd
probably laugh my head off.
Yeah, yeah.
But I mean, you know, like he's turned into a frog, you know?
It's ridiculous.
Oh yeah, look at this fella.
Yeah, yeah.
Both of them are dead.
Both are pretty ones.
Look at the console.
It's been smashed above, right?
Oh, no, wait, it's only the pretty one on the left.
Yeah, see, I think that's about as far as they go here.
He's got like these slash marks right across his chest.
Yeah, it's a little bit like Rachel Garrett and the big shard of
the big knife in her head.
I'm not sure why he's doing that sort of boss-eyed acting though.
Oh, at least he's pretty.
He was quite pretty, wasn't he?
At least it wasn't Ensign Gates.
No, she's great.
We love her.
And the security woman who's in this one as well.
Look what they've done to the chairs here.
He's been whipping up the chairs.
It's astonishing how most atmosphere you can get out of this set
you know, when they turn the lights off.
Yeah, all you need to do is turn the lights off and move the
camera around. yesterday's Enterprise all of a sudden.
So I'm, when he says, I'm picking up... a 1011 life forms.
Does that include the 12 male cats?
Oh, I imagine so, yeah.
Yeah.
So it's a bit less than a 1000 people on board at this point.
Oh, there you go.
He's accounted for all the families there.
They've all gone to the arboretum.
They all hanging out in Keiko's little play area.
Yeah, yeah, but they're all a bit like Council of Troy.
Monkeys or something.
He said they were all aquatic, didn't they?
Oh, okay.
I told you this, they'll turn into those salamanders.
Start fucking.
What's happening here?
This is where we see Riker, is it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Which again is one of the high points of Johnny's career as an
actor. very similar to his season one acting, isn't it?
Alpha male.
Well, I mean, climbing all over the chairs.
He does do a bit of that in season one.
Oh that's quite good.
Look at that.
So good, you know, they turn the entire enterprise, you know, the
original enterprise, crew into monkeys in one episode as well.
No, they don't.
Yeah, they never forgot about it.
Yeah, series three.
They all get turned into primates, yeah.
Oh my god.
He never forgets an idea, you know.
Oh my god, Patrick Stewart's face when he jumps on.
Oh my god.
Oh, that is that Frank's yet is.
It is.
Yeah, they just can't quite stage action at this point.
No.
It's like a long shot.
It's a long shot.
I mean jumping over the desk.
That's reasonably good for 90 Star Trek.
That's the singer.
Captain, I believe the crew is de- evolving.
This is so fucking stupid.
So there is an explanation given and it is, it makes no sense
right?
So, there...
Yeah, no, like it's just absolute gobbledy-goo, and there is some
real sort of science involved.
Like introns are kind of like regions of a gene that aren't
expressed that don't seem to code anything.
How do you know that?
Oh, I looked it up on Wikipedia beforehand.
And so they were kind of...
I just wrote the script and then just put insert medical babble
here.
No, I actually suspect that he is reacting to something that would
he would have heard about DNA, that not all of our genes are
expressed and that some things, some things in our genome date
from earlier or something.
But, you know, and there was always that sort of weird idea that
people sort of moved through various transitional evolutionary
stages as part of embryology and stuff.
But so there is a thing here, but of course, what's said is makes
no sense, but nothing that is ever said about DNA in Star Trek
ever makes any sense at all.
And so it sounds magical.
If you're going to do this, if you're going to do a B movie
schlocky, we're turning into monster story. absurd science.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
Just have the line.
They've been de-evolved.
It's enough.
Yeah, yeah.
I know... the science in inverted comments to back it up.
But, you know, yeah.
But I mean, they're always going to do that.
When Star Trek talks about DNA, they talk about whatever it is
that's essential to making us who we are, it's like our essence
and if your essence changes, then you change into an animal or an
alien or a...
Don't show that.
I'm quite going for that here though, are they?
No.
Well I think that's what it is.
I think, you know, it's just all magic words at this point.
See, I love.
I love Picard's reaction.
He likes Stewart's reaction.
You've been infected too.
And he goes, ah, okay.
And what am I going to change into?
And then just having data deliver this in the in this sort of
deadpan way.
And it's like, what am I going to turn into?
I believe, sir, you will evolve into an earlier form of primate.
Possibly a lemur or a pig, pig, pig, pig, pig.
It's such a great chance of words.
And then the clothes up of his face.
Oh, so this has left to be all together for it.
It's so funny.
Like, that is absolutely brilliant.
And then he kind of creates a joke well before I start swinging
through the corridors.
And when he's in the lift and wharf's attacking immediately in the
turbo lift, he uses his mama said abilities to climb up the walls
and up the roof of the thing.
Like, it's so absurd.
It's so ridiculous.
And he just, he's just decided this is just going to sell.
My issue is because it's all being played so straight and it is
being played straight.
Rascals was played for laughs, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think I might have had more fun with this if it was just camped
up a bit.
I think that's possibly true, but I do think that it's the right
choice for Spiner and Stuart to play it straight.
Oh, the little keys.
So the one thing that irritated me about this episode is those
kittens have been without feeding for 12 hours and they don't feed
them.
Like replicate some fucking milk, you monsters, and then go and do
the thing.
Sports collar.
German's review was, there's no reason, there seems to be no
reason why he turns, she turns into a lizard except that they had
a lizard around that the collar would fit and you kind of go, well
yes.
No, I'll tell you what, that's my best laugh for the whole episode
is wearing this pink collar.
Yeah, yeah, that's tremendous, isn't it?
Oh, because you know what it is, right?
It is.
We've done 7 years of this now.
They know they can get away with anything.
They know we love these characters.
They'll just do anything and no, we'll take it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I think too.
No, and I think that just going big, like if they had kind of kind
of backpedalled it a bit or been a bit half-hearted, then, um, it
wouldn't have worked.
Well, the one thing that I think is the problem is that this
version of Star Trek is never really properly funny.
Like very memorable, funny lines.
There's, you know, I am not a man.
I'm the goddess of empathy.
That was very funny. was pretty good.
And the cellular peptide cake, obviously.
But, um, But so they can't actually make it as funny as it needs
to be.
And you have someone as funny as Dwight Schultz in that scene. and
Frank's can be funny as well.
Like Franks can be properly funny.
That scene could have been punched up a bit and made more funny.
And I think I think Frakes does a pretty good job with his...
I can't remember things and I'm not sure what's going on lines.
Like, I think that that's pretty good.
And I did get a couple of laughs out of that.
Well, the weird thing is, isn't as funny as it could be.
I think, so, this masks and sub-roser.
They're like the 3 recognised duds of this year, yeah.
And they're all insane.
But they're all played for real.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
This is actually occurring and no one was going, well, this is
absurd.
I think the least memorable one of those is masks, but I do think
that it's telling that there is a whole episode of lower decks
that starts with another mask related incident and Captain Freeman
going through the corridors of the ship with her mask.
That's great.
Okay, so Barclay jumping up as the spider.
Yeah, a genuinely good shock.
Yeah.
And the camera don't hold on him for too long either.
I thought you can't really get a sense of what he looks like.
Yeah, yeah.
Then he goes.
And I think that that's good.
Like, I would have not liked to have seen much more of that.
See, unlike Deanna Troy's quarters, I would have gone far crazier
with these spider webs everywhere, all around engineering, you
know?
have them having to claw their way through them.
Through them.
Yeah.
But no, this is the problem.
I think this is half the problem with what we said before about
having to churn out 26 episodes.
They got a certain amount of time to do it, you know?
right.
Nowadays, could you imagine this nowadays if they were doing it?
Well, I think this is one of the episodes that we would have
decided not to make if we had a budget of 10 episodes.
I think we could probably do without the D evolution one.
I would respect them more if they had.
But I can't imagine this being made in any other version of Star
Trek.
Do you know what I mean?
They, well, they, no, they may not even a more half-hearted
attempt to do this in Voyager when they had them all turn into
creatures in series four.
There was an episode where they were being experimented on and
things and they were turning, one of them had spots, one of them
had scales, and it was all, it was all played as just sort of like
another day in the office episode.
It was very weird.
At least at least they made a bit of a party of this one.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So they've gone, how about we do genesis and cross it with
schisms?
Is that what's happening there or?
But without any of the atmosphere of either.
Either on... is quite creepy, you know?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
It's weird.
Nicky aliens.
Yeah, yeah, they're good.
Not sure that impression was good, but yeah, you get the idea.
Yeah.
Oh, no.
No, I think we talked about this on the thread, but I think wharf
is the worst monster of all.
Oh, I think he's because I think he just looks a bit like a big
rock.
Yeah, but what it looks like is, you know, that forehead, like
he's got a Klingon forehead pretty much unlike any other Klingon
that we ever see in the show, but it's kind of like you can
imagine he's like a primitive form of Klingon that had a giant
exoskeleton.
So it does kind of look like him.
And I think Michael does some great vocalisations as that sort of
scary monster.
I think he kind of sells it.
He's not required to do that much acting.
It's mostly the costume.
Um, I quite like the, like, Picard here.
Like, he is doing some weird guy acting.
But, um...
I love Data's line.
It's like, well, you know, like it would just be easier for him to
go off and consume one of the people walking through the
corridors.
Do you see it?
I think that's Troy's hands.
That's supposed to be underneath that blanket there.
Marina's not there today, so she's under a fag.
It's yeah, that's right.
It's a body dog.
You don't need me today, Gatesy, do you?
No, I'm not getting that makeup again.
You made me look fucking stupid, all right?
I didn't go through Rada for this.
I would love to hear them talking about doing this.
I commentary of this episode would be the best thing ever.
Well, aside from ours, of course.
Yeah, yeah.
But there you go.
See, we don't even get, Oh, no, there she is.
Look, she's there.
She's on set.
Really, gangsy?
Really?
I haven't even got any lines.
Oh bless that.
Oh, look, those gills are...
Yeah.
Yeah, I think there's this is a bit of a problem with this
episodic television, you know.
We've got 7 minutes left and everyone's still a monster at this
point.
So we've got to do some pretty quick wrap up on this.
And they absolutely hang a hat on how stupid that is, I think, in
that final line.
And it's a thing that they do all the time.
You know, like man of the people. like whatever that, what's the
old person, one in series 2, where Pulaski becomes old on the USS
percane, unnatural selection.
That it.
See, another motion. the most offensive old age makeup we've ever
seen, but it's pretty bad.
It's pretty bad.
It is pretty good.
It's Diana Moldar, so often.
She's already old.
Ever since she got pushed down that lift shaft.
Oh my god. in love with her I saw it happen.
Oh, Jesus Christ.
Yeah, so he's being brave.
We're going to go around with this magical piper spray now and
we're going to re-evolve everybody.
Yeah. all the time we're back from the ad break.
Everything's going to be all right.
Everything's gonna be fine.
So he's just luring.
He's just luring warf away with her pheromones.
I mean, how the facts?
How the fuck is there no after effects?
And no physical after effects on anybody.
No, because like I said, Star Trek gets an anthology show and this
always happens.
Someone turns into an alien and then they're back at work next
week.
It's the thing.
That lower deck makes fun of it for. for everything.
This is Star Trek.
That's right.
Well, but that's what Star Trek does. all the time.
Not just this week.
I'm going to make a caveat for discovery, which has consequences.
Oh, yeah.
They're the only two. you know everyone else.
I think that they would, I think that they would shy away from
some of this stuff.
This is not the sort of thing that they would do even on Strangely
Worlds, which does do high concept stuff.
Well, DSI did a horror story, but it was a serial killer story.
It was Garak as a serial killer, killing a load of red shirts, you
know.
So it was still sort of within the realms of plausibility.
It was a psychological horror more than anything.
Yeah.
Um, why did I like some of this?
Picard running around the turbolifts and wharf trying to break
in.
This was this was a bit tense.
Yeah.
But watch him watch him sort of climb the walls.
I think they do a good job with Wharf too, like keeping him in the
dark, so we don't get to see that costume too much.
It's only when he's unconscious in the Jeffries tube that we get
really any side of it and his face down.
But it looks like he has mandibles or something.
There's something really weird going on the front of his face.
I generally do make these turbo lists seem quite terrifying at
times. you know.
There's one way Picard walks out and it's just a starscape and
there's another one where the ceiling's coming in on him.
He's doing his pygmy marmoset climbing up to the roof.
All those years at Royal Shakespeare were not wasted, Patrick.
Oh, poor, not so coward, the monkey.
Yeah, that's not a great look for her, is it?
I wonder if it is actually her.
Oh, Jesus Christ, I can feel more IQ going down with her for
seconds.
And they weren't much there to start off with.
That's awesome.
Yeah, that's not enough gloop, is there in Star Trek?
No, but that was pretty good.
That was a pretty good moment of gloop there.
Again, though, it wasn't quiet.
It didn't make me jump the way the other 2 bits did.
No, I think we had some opportunities, gate, so we didn't take
them.
Yeah.
But look, there's also a computer animation on the screen that
shows her DNA being kind of rewritten back to normal and he just
says, speed it up and then it speeds up.
The outbreak's coming.
That's great too.
That is kind of like when Michael is is loping down the corridor
on all 4s towards him.
That is very like a shot from Alien. trouble with his makeup is it
looks like he's just got a helmet on and you know why that is?
Because I think she's just got a helmet on.
Isn't Nurse Agawa, like Patty is so beautiful.
Like in, you know, in that bed where she's looking, like she's not
on and stuff, she's a great round, you know, instead of just being
past me to hyperspray.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, she's in lower decks.
They do give her a thing to do, which is pretty great.
So good.
I can't believe that is in the same season as this.
Yeah. is really good, isn't it?
It looks definitely swinging. at this point Yeah.
But it is, it's doing a thing that we've never done before.
There we go.
The duck...
Here's our, here is our, um, our... all the crew back to normal.
Yeah, that's right.
He's the captain's log, and the problems are all solved, and we're
back to normal with the same camera movements in Sik Bay.
The same group of people.
She's doing her, but doctor, there's just one thing I don't
understand.
And I adore this.
I love his reaction to being told that the disease is named after
him.
Uh, you know, like we normally name the 1st person who gets the
disease.
That's what we call the disease.
And so it's like, we're going to call it Barclay's Protomorphosis
Syndrome.
And he goes, oh, I like the sound of that, which I just think is
adorable.
Look, we're back to where we were when we started, when it was
good.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, but look, and again, Gates has had massive reconstructed
reconstructive surgery in the brake.
It's the whole thing.
I don't know what they're doing You know, the next episode is
Journeys In. the one where Wesley Cruscher goes off with the
travellers.
We're doing that whole Native American thing. as a robot going, oh
my Wesley.
Where's it going?
So I love this too, where she says I better clear my calendar for
the next few weeks and pulls her kind of, oh my God, I'm going to
have to spend a lot of time dealing with Barclay, whereas everyone
else is just going to go back to normal next week.
I'll clear my schedule. involved.
Yeah, that's right.
Because I'll have to deal with Barclay, who is the only one who
weirdly can't cope with being turned into an animal and then
turned back.
A reasonable reaction to this.
Yeah, that's right.
It is very odd kind of, it's hanging a hat on the fact that
normally if you're turned into an alien in Star Trek, you are back
to normal and fine to go back to work by the end of the episode
which is clearly what's happened here.
I do think there is a certain amount of everything's back to
normal that you can take in Star Trek.
And then I think it goes a bit too far.
And you're like, I just, I just do not believe in you people at
all.
No, but the trouble with that is then it doesn't allow you to
really go properly high concept.
So think about frame of mind, right?
Like, Riker has the shit scan out of him and he's sort of
tormented and it's a hugely weird psychological thing.
It's very unsettling and very creepy and and he does some pretty
good acting and, you know, it's a it's a great high concept
episode and that he's fine the week after that.
And I think that we just have to be fine with that.
That's what I think I mean by it's an anthology series because the
show isn't equipped to explore that and doesn't want to
essentially.
I mean, I was trying to think, okay, so, you know, my comparison
is always DS9.
Yep.
What kind of concepts did they do?
Children of Time, where they met their descendants?
They pulled that off with without, and they do deal with the
consequences of that.
What's the one with O'Brien serving last sentence?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. and they never talk about that again.
No, we never mention it again.
And like, you know, Kira gets changed into a crystal in there.
I love that one.
Yeah, but do you know what I mean?
Like all Star Trek.
You've got to remember, that's not Kira, right?
That a changeling.
Okay.
It's a twist.
They're trying to make Odo confesses love, you know, for Kira
right. by putting her in a dangerous situation.
Okay, fair.
What about one little ship?
Actually, yeah, you would be, you would have some consequences
there.
Oh no, they do deal with that.
They shrink them down. make them big again and then have a scene
where Odo's and Cork are going, you sure you've gone back to the
right size?
You've seen a few inches, should you work?
It's really funny.
But you know, like I said, this is not a show that is doing a
level of realism at all.
Just wish somebody had laughed about it.
Yeah, I think that that's probably the biggest flaw, that in fact
it doesn't take it far enough.
And because this show can't actually do funny very well and only
rarely does, there are scenes that are a bit boring or a little
bit that are a bit embarrassing at times in it, that could have
been more entertaining.
Oh, mate, the contrast again, you know, talking about people
laughing because in one little ship.
I don't know if you remember, in the 1st scene, Cisco goes to
Kira.
Major, are you laughing at our scientific experiment?
And she goes, look, just because we're reducing people down for
the size of coffee cups and then just falls into laughter
basically they're getting out of the way that the high concept is
absurd, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah. and then they do it.
They do a wacky high concept thing and that's superb.
So, you know, I don't like any sort of thing which says we need to
pull it back.
It needs to be more sensible.
You've got to let them do something sort of crazy and potentially
showbreaking.
Well, I think there are levels of stupid, you know?
And I think we have determined on this episode that your, how much
of it you can take is far more than making.
Yeah, I think so.
But I think I think it's because I'm regarding this show
differently and I think a show, like I think if Strange New Worlds
did that episode, I think I would think less of it.
I think it would do a better job of it for a start because it's
generally better made.
But this is a show that has consequences for the characters.
And so we see Laan go at the end of episode 9 and she's away, you
know, for a break.
We, you know, there are things that happen to the characters that
actually matter from episode to episode.
Well, they they do that horror episode, don't they?
But then they kill off the engineer in that episode.
You know, there's massive consequences for the show.
Yeah.
Whereas this, well, I mean, I mean, other some roses are saying
this is the dying days of Star Trek, the next generation, you
know.
And instead of going out with intellectual treats, you know
riveting drama, we're turning Troy into a fish.
Yeah.
But, you know, like the 2nd last episode, preemptive strike is
what everyone wants, and I don't think it's all that good.
You know, it's flatly directed as the trouble, I think that one.
Yeah.
And the same journey's end, you know, like Journey's end gives us
a...
Yeah, it's boring.
You like emergence and often that's tedious.
Yeah, I think, look, I think I like emergence as an idea and as a
high concept thing, you know, like I'm happy about that.
I do think in practice it's a bit boring.
But it is kind of weird in places in a good way, which is
something that Star Trek the Next Generation doesn't do anywhere
near enough.
What is baffling, though, is that TNG did get to a point where it
was consistently excellent.
Yeah, and it isn't doing that anymore.
No.
And that's strange.
I think it gets a heyday of about 3 years.
I think things start to go pear shaped in six, but 6 is still
pretty good. has quite a lot of good episodes.
Somewhat annoyingly.
Whenever we dive into those seasons.
We get episodes like the masterpiece society.
Yeah, that's right.
Oh, come on, we've had Dharmok.
We had yesterday's Enterprise on our 1st outing.
It's all good How many years have we done?
That's 2 of them.
Look, next time I'd get it and I choose next gen, I'm genuinely
going to keep pressing until something good happens.
I think I need convincing now.
I've gone past the point where I'm questioning whether this show
is good.
I actually need proof that the next generation is as good as
everybody remembers it being.
All right, it's the end of the episode and it is time for us to
choose what we're going to watch next time.
It's my turn on the Randomiser.
Could you just please make sure it is an episode with at least one
brain cell.
Thank you.
Okay.
I can't guarantee that because we are going to do Star Trek
Voyager.
If we get threshold.
Oh, the 1st God.
We have to do it.
We're gonna get it.
That's the rule.
I should add it as a rule if we have a roll threshold.
We have to pick it.
It was sub-roser for TNG.
Yeah.
And threshold for...
I kept saying so, bro.
I spoke brain for TOS.
We kind of. we've done that.
Done well with these shitty episodes, yeah.
Your random Star Trek Voyager episode is season seven, episode six
Inside Man.
No idea what that is.
We've done a couple of 7s though, haven't we?
Yeah, we have a bit.
Inside Man is the one where Deanna Troy and Barclay, Foyle, a
Ferengi plot, and Voyager barely appears.
But it's desperately unfunny.
I remember it being really sort of miserable voyager comedy.
I love those 2 though, I have to say, and that's Marina when she's
chilled a bit.
She's literally great.
And they they go outside.
They're filming on a beach.
Wow, that's pretty cool.
A beach in California.
Awesome.
All right, let's try again.
Star Trek Voyager, season four, episode four, Nemesis.
Ooh, it's a Jacose episode.
It's the one where is with all those kids that speak that weird
language, it's Joe Manosky.
Oh, okay, that's sort of trying to be Dharmok, but not...
But we've got a week's break ahead of us here.
No, people don't know this, but I don't want to wait a week to
watch a Chakotay episode.
Spin it.
We are still putting it out week by week, but we have a week's
break recording.
Okay, so let me try again.
End game.
Yeah, we've done that.
The gift, season four, episode two.
We could do the game.
We have just done Scorpion.
I know, but it is so good.
And what if we don't roll it again?
I'm going to roll again.
Oh my god, no, we're not doing this.
Unimatrix 0 part two.
Series 7, episode one.
We're just talking about that one.
Yeah, we've already done a two-part season finale.
Okay, season two, episode 19, life signs.
That's the one where the doctor and the video have a romance.
Ooh.
Oh, I don't think we can do this.
I really want to do it.
It's season six, episode 17 spirit folk.
Yes.
Let's do it.
Oh, no, wait, we can't.
No, we're just...
Star Trek for weeks.
Everyone hates Genesis.
It's got to be... competence.
Okay, all right.
One more.
This is one.
This is so embarrassing.
All right.
Alliances series two, episode 14.
Is that the one with the tribe?
Yeah.
I really like that episode.
I do too.
I think we should do that for sure.
I think it's sort of the most arc heavy Voyager ever got that
episode.
Yeah, yeah.
And it's a good arc and it's an interesting backstory for the
Kazon, which I really like. manipulating everything.
Yes, Marj.
Absolutely.
Let's do it.
That's brilliant.
And I guess there's a chance to contrast the Kazon from... from
Prodigy.
Yes, exactly.
Hey let's do it.
All right, you're on.
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley, where online at Untitled Star Trek Project
com, where you can find links to our Twitter, Mastodon, Facebook
and YouTube channel.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Sizeran, and the theme was
composed by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 20th of June 2023 and released on
the 30th of June.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Voyager Alliances.
What a miserable place to win.
At least we lost.
No, no, no, but I think...
Like, I don't have any rants with that one.
I've got a, from some things, but like, and I basically on board
with Braga just going, oh, fuck it, let's do the one where they
all turn into monsters.
I don't give a shit, like whatever.
I think I'd not have fun because the commentary was great fun.
You know?
Yeah, yeah.
I was just watching the thing going on.
Oh, God.
But I always suppose you could consider a success.
But I kind of always thought that it was a shame that gays didn't
get more credit for doing a pretty good job of a pretty
complicated episode on her 1st outing.
I think it's a shame she didn't direct earlier and do more.
Yeah, because I'd like to see what she could have done with like a
drama.
Because she never does any, again, does she?
Like LaVar Burton continues to direct.
Yeah, Frekes are still doing it.
Renee, Revision Wive, with Brooks.
Yeah, City Alpha Dale, Roxanne Dawson.
Yeah.
Tim Ruffs.
Tim Russ directs one of the best episodes of Voyager.
Oh, does he?
What one?
Yeah, he directs...
Yeah, the one with the doctor in the future.
Where they're all evil.
A living witness.
Yeah.
Far enough.
It's the only Tony Drex.
They get a black man to direct that one too. which is pretty good.