Hey, Joe. Hi.
So, we are very early on in Star Trek Enterprise this week, and in
fact...
Dangerous Waters.
Yeah, yeah, we are one episode after Strange New World, which is
the 1st episode of Enterprise we ever did. did we find that a
absolute...
And now I remember.
In fact, that was the point where I was like, no one's going to
listen to this anymore because we are slagging off star.
I mean, honestly, we did not have one good word to say during that
episode.
Not one.
Just you saying one of my favourites.
That was it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But this, I think, is actually quite a bit better.
And I imagine this is one that people hate and rightly so in all
sorts of ways, but I have to say that I thought it was sort of
reasonably amiable and sort of inoffensive.
I, you know, well, mildly offensive a little bit later on, but it
certainly begins amiable, which is actually your word.
I don't think it ever gets offensive to the levels that we've been
offended by enterprise before.
Oh, no, I was expecting much worse.
Yeah.
I still think that's fame praise.
I think a lot of people consider this to be one of, if not the
worst episode of the season, and I don't think that's the case at
all.
I struggled with this, didn't I?
Because I watched it and I said, gee, that was quite fun.
And then about an hour later, I messaged you and I said, I cannot
remember a thing about that episode.
I don't know what I'm going to.
So I had to watch it again today, sort of about an hour ago, just
to remind myself of, and I think there are definitely things to
say about this and about how they are forming this show.
Yeah.
But insubstantial is what I would say about this.
Like, I'm not sure what point it's trying to make.
I don't think it's making a point.
I think it is just, it does just have no ambitions beyond being a
Star Trek episode and it manages that.
I think that baffles me the most is that Bourbon and Bragger have
been churning out Star Trek for over a decade at this point, yeah?
Yep.
And everything from, you know, terrible to absolute classics. and
they've both been involved with both.
Yeah, yeah.
So they should have a really good grasp on how to make Star Trek
at this point.
So why in this 1st season does it feel like this is 2 people that
have just come together and decided to make Star Trek that I've
never touched it before and they're making one stupid mistake
after another?
What, why is that?
I think it's because they think that Star Trek is too nerdy and
that it doesn't have the ability to appeal to a mass audience.
And so they're trying to make it less, you know, just less like
you have to have read lots of memory alpha pages to understand
what's going on.
So they bring it into a new setting, you know, like the 24th
century is kind of a bit overplayed at this point.
So we're bringing it down.
We're having much, much less kind of backstory, and we're making
the story simpler.
But I think the whole thing is kind of undermined by the fact that
they try not to write space people from the 24th century and they
fail.
Do you know what I mean?
Like these are not like chilled, relaxed people.
Although with some exceptions, I think, in the cast, but generally
speaking, they're still Star Trek people.
And I think that it gives them license to forget everything that
we've seen for the last 14 years.
And so here, for instance, we're supposed to get tremendously
excited by the holodeck because our characters have... can they?
No.
But we 1st saw one 14 years ago and we've seen any number of
holodeck episodes and we've made jokes about it.
If there were memes back then we would have made them.
And so it flops.
You know, it's just like last week when we had the away mission.
It's kind of like, well, this is our 478th away mission in Star
Trek so far because it's there 1st doesn't make it exciting to
us.
I mean, did they think just because they're making a new Star Trek
show that there was going to be a whole new audience watching it?
Because the pattern was, TNG was enormously popular, had great
numbers.
They started dwindling with DS9.
They dwindled even further with Voyager.
And now here we are in Enterprise in the death bros of our viewing
audience.
Yeah.
But they must have known that it was Star Trek fans that were
going to watch this.
Star Trek fans that had seen the last 15 years.
Yeah, but I think that they wanted to get a broader audience in
and I think they fail.
And I think they fail surprisingly in a way that, for instance
strange new worlds succeeds.
You know, Stranger Worlds is trying to be a new Star Trek show.
And because, like, its stories are sort of reasonably simple and
Star Trek-y.
You know, they've been sort of fairly straightforward.
I was thinking about episode two, which I think is called Children
of the Comet, that beautiful overall one.
Astonishing.
Yeah, but the thing that Strange New Worlds got so right.
The Enterprise got so wrong.
And I don't think it's the car's fault is that these characters
are just so boring.
You know, that's right.
I think that's it.
How they react to things.
It just isn't exciting to watch in a way that like I talked about
the characters in DS9 a couple of weeks back.
They were so vivid and the personalities were so big and all the
different combinations.
It just, the characters are absolutely the strongest thing there.
They're the weakest thing here.
So you have weak characters and you're doing the same old going
through the motions with the plots.
What is there to grab hold of?
And that thing you were saying about sort of pushing away from
Star Trek a bit and giving it a bit more human interest, yeah.
That only works.
If those human characters are really vivid and interesting.
I don't know if you were in the Stargate universe. you remember
that?
So that's what happened when they when they took hold of this camp
ridiculous sci-fi fantasy show?
put it somewhere out in the universe and just made it about human
beings and suddenly it lost all of its campness and its silliness
and it's fun and it was boring as hell to watch and it killed off
the franchise.
Well, guess what?
They've done the same thing here with Star Trek and it killed off
the franchise.
Yeah, but in spite of that, there are, in this episode, I think, 2
characters who come off well, and that's because of the actor's
performances, and I think it's, Jen Archer came off very well when
he started floating around naked in the shower, you know?
It's the one time I've been really happy to see it.
But I think Tripp is as charming as hell, and I think that this
mostly plays to his strengths.
You know, like I think he's generally sweet.
There's some scenes towards the end where he's a bit obnoxious.
And of course, the doctor.
Trip is the best character, I think, in this show, potentially.
And I still think he is worse than the worst character in DS 9.
It's less interesting.
Strange New Worlds.
Yeah.
If you put him in DS9 or in Strange New Worlds, he'd be the most
boring character in it, you know?
Yeah.
Well, I think that that's the other thing too.
I think that there is a pushback against the diversity.
Yeah, you still do Star Trek here.
Yeah. and I I think that's I think it's hard to...
It's very interesting to know that Anthony Montgomery, who is one
of the main cast.
He just gets nothing to do in those 4 years.
They ignore the character completely.
And he's clearly an actor.
He's got some chops, you know, when they do give him something to
do, he's pretty good.
And yet instead they just go. the trio again, isn't it?
It's Archipol and Tripp.
Yeah.
And so and Hoshi as well.
You know, like, and the...
She usually gets one... throw her a bone and give her one episode
in here, you know.
But, you know, like this is the 1st 90 Star Trek to be helmed by a
wide American male, you know, that's the 1st time it's happened.
And I think that that's what they're trying to do here.
And I think that's a problem as well.
Like, I think, you know, and also just the kind of weird racism
that they're doing.
You know, there was kind of racism against Spock, wasn't there, in
the original series and they're trying to bring it back. very
unpleasant.
Yeah.
People talk about the McCoy spot relationship.
But it is tinged with a level of sort of awkwardness as well.
Yeah.
But here I think Tapole's horrible.
Like, I think Tapol's awful, this episode.
I like her.
She had wonderful, great one line about sticking his fingers in
where they don't belong or something.
I did like that live.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You fucking...
Do you remember when we selected Enterprise?
That was my choice on the Random Myers.
I said, I wanted to talk about when the cast assembled with
Brandon Braga to basically execute him with words, which they did
with some alacrity, I have to say.
I very quickly just wanted to talk about the cast members and what
they had to say because everyone sort of agree this 1st season was
an absolute turkey.
Who shall I start with?
Okay, so Anthony Montgomery, yeah.
Who doesn't ever say, he seems like the most amiable guy out of
all of them basically just says what I got out of this show was
being around these actors.
But he couldn't talk about his character or the plots or anything
because there was nothing there for him.
And I thought actually that was a bit of a miss because it would
have been interesting for him to say, well, why didn't you give me
anything to do?
Dominic Keating, who, weirdly enough, is even more annoying than
the character he plays, Malcolm Reed.
Keeps interrupting everybody throughout the thing. he's that sort
of accident wants to be the centre of attention all the time or
starts taking over the interview.
I got the feeling this was the biggest job that he'd ever had and
would ever have.
Scott Bacula is very thoughtful about the whole thing and he does
take brag of the task quite a few times and he's the one that says
categorically, our 1st season was a failure.
We lost our audience then.
Wow, wow.
But he then says, look, halfway through the 2nd season, I knew we
were starting to do good work and then in 3 and four, he goes
whatever you think.
Because, um, John Billingsley comes in and says, you know, the
politics of season 3 were appalling.
And Scott Bacular turns around and says, yeah, but I do think we
made some good telly, regardless.
We made some exciting TV.
They keep trying to throw the spotlight on Jolene Blaylock.
I am not going to say Baylock.
Jolian Blaylock.
And she's really shy.
Like, she's really reluctant to sort of talk and she talks, she
kind of admits very shyly that she's been to a few conventions and
didn't enjoy it very much.
So I think she's the sort of actor, the opposite of Dominic Gating
doesn't like the spotlight in her face.
And Brandon Brockov says to her, you know, did you enjoy what we
wrote for you?
We really wanted to challenge you.
And she's very, positive about the whole experience.
Right.
What really shocked me was she's, I think she's one of the most
able actors of the bunch.
But she just sort of sits there with her, adds to her mouth, like
really meek.
And but the most interesting is Conor Trinier.
And he says, you gave me wonderful opportunities throughout this
show.
And you can see Anthony Montgomery looking at Conor Tornillo, as
he's going, the fantastic opportunities you gave me throughout
this show.
What's the difference between us, do you think?
He's probably wondering.
Yeah, nobody says that.
But it's really interesting.
They all kind of come away with a lot of regret.
And like someone says, you know, we didn't make it to a 100.
We nearly made it to 100 episodes.
We're the only series during that period that didn't do 7
seasons.
We're the only series that ended with a TNG episode instead of an
Enterprise episode and everyone's got something to say about
that.
It's really sad because I think ultimately, yeah, the show is a
blob.
And they're kind of scratching through the debris to find nice
things to say.
But it's a really interesting interview, and certainly Brandon
Braggart is there, like, you know, like the Hangman has got his
noose, or they're all putting gums at him. shoot him any minute
you know.
And he's just full of apologies for everybody.
And it's very, very clear that from the start, there was massive
studio problems. they were involving themselves on every level of
the show.
So what we got on the screen, it might say written by Brandon
Bragger and Rick Berman, but there were decisions being made about
the look of the show, the ideas in the show, like they didn't even
want to do a prequel.
But that was the studio's idea, you know?
They had to do the temporal Cold War because they wouldn't have
them just telling human interest stories.
No, no, there's got to be something big, big, exciting science
fiction idea in there.
And they were like, we didn't know what we would do with it.
We just threw it in there because that's what they wanted.
Yeah.
So the sad thing is about enterprise is that nobody's very
impressed with it.
Not even the people making it.
Yeah, but I would be lying if I denied having any fun watching
it.
Do you know what I mean?
Like sometimes I find it exasperating.
There are times that really irritates me.
And there's times that I'm kind of bored and it's not one that I
willingly put on.
I mean, I mostly only watch it because of untitled Star Trek
project.
But I wasn't bored this afternoon when I watched it.
I had fun, you know, like it's still Star Trek, but it's a shame
it's not good Star Trek.
I think, I think the thing is, I, whenever we roll enterprise, and
all the time it's me choosing it, I sort of go in thinking, okay
this is going to be the, this is going to be the time where I'm
turning into an enterprise fan, you know?
And I'm finally, you know, years after the event going to watch
the run through.
And it's just, I don't think it's ever going to happen, you know?
No.
That's a really sad way to start this episode.
And I'm sure one day we're going to find an enterprise episode
that we both agree is absolutely, you know, is probably
brilliant.
I don't think we've done one yet really.
We've done one that sort of touched on being very good. but still
made you very angry.
Yeah, co-jenitor.
Terrible. very angry.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, I think we should go in.
What do you reckon?
I think I've turned everybody off enough.
Yeah, let's go.
All right, I'll count us in.
Five, four, three, two, one.
And we're off.
This was the best... as far as I'm concerned.
So again, so we don't have Sonic showers, do we?
Oh look at him.
Look, that reminds me so much of that Star Trek 6, you know, when
the blood goes flying.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So they've got the money to do this.
Like, the shower is sort of intensely impractical on a spaceship
but like whatever.
But I kind of like that because it puts him in a space and so much
of this show is just us standing around in studios.
And so to have someone who's physically wet, I know that sounds
dumb, but that's actually a thing, you know, that's mildly
entertaining.
Studios at that, Nathan.
And I've got to say, I think Scott falls out.
That must have hurt the bottom of his arse so badly.
I think he's been working out, you know.
Well, he's like, you know, anyone who looked like him who took
their shirt off in an American TV program, these days would be
shot dead immediately, but I think he looks great.
Like, I think he looks great.
You forget Captain Kirk, you know, walking through the corridors
with his belly out.
Certainly, certainly he's trimmer than Captain Kirk.
I think he looks really good.
I think it's a great shame.
I think, you know, Bacula has every right to be irritated because
you take an actor as charming as Bacula and make him play an
arsehole for so long.
And when she's nice.
It's actually fun to watch him.
Yeah, you know.
I mean, beyond that, oh, there's a few bits in this.
There's a bit where he orders trip to bed.
I quite like that bit.
But, you know, it's slim pickings.
He's nice to the dog this time.
You know how we said he had no proper relationship with the dog. in
a night in Sick Bay, you know, like he just thought the dog was
something he could whinge about.
I've just remembered something else from the interview.
If someone brought up the song.
Did anybody like the song?
I like the song.
John Billingsley, it's one...
He goes, well, you know, it's very plain.
He goes, he goes, I did like the bit, though, really.
They jumped in at the end going, I've got, I've got, when the
chorus jumps in.
And I was like, that's exactly what I saw on, I'm sorry.
Yeah, yeah.
No, well, it's it's a very, very middle of the road, like I said
before, I think dad core kind of choice.
I think of now, whenever I hear it, you say dad call, you know.
We're having play meat soup.
Are we having plum meat soup?
She had plum meat soup for breakfast. right.
So I think she's fairly racist in this scene, though.
Yeah, I think she's obnoxious in this scene.
And in fact, one of the, one of the ways that people are racist is
by expressing disgust for the other culture's food.
And if you think about the history of, you know, English people
calling French people frogs because they sometimes eat frogs, do
you know what I mean?
Like, we do that all the time with other cultures and we say their
food stinks and that's how we race a story.
I do not object to classic way of doing it.
But I don't like the taste of them, but I just don't like the fact
that they get so little meat. on our frogs.
Yeah, it's a lot of effort.
But you know, I think I think throughout the 1st season, their
plan is to thaw her out, you know, she doesn't want to go in the
1st episode and come the last episode she's choosing to stay and
they do take her on that path in the 1st season.
Yeah, bloody how everyone's horrible at the beginning.
Yeah, well that's right.
It's just not fun to watch.
And she is super obnoxious here.
I actually have to say that I am starting to like this set.
I love this set.
We said before, we like the fact that they sort of practically
climb all over it.
You know, there's a lot to do.
So there's a lot of what sort of ways they can shoot it as well.
Yeah, well, because remember the warp core was horizontal in
original track and these horizontally and strategy worlds, and
then they had those vertical ones, which are great, because that
was unusual and stuff.
But having this long sort of space and like here where they get
out fire extinguishes, like it gives it a real...
Did you notice that?
So it's got a line.
So he walks across the bridge as if he's doing something important
than a trip site.
No, no, no, we need you to go back that way and go and sort that
thing out, yeah.
The extras on, especially 90s trek, you know, they have a bit of a
problem.
Not doing anything convincingly.
And so I think this is sort of vaguely interesting, isn't it?
So they're they're awake and it's causing these malfunctions.
And I did like where the sort of black tar comes into into Tapol's
drink.
You know, she's ordered carbonated water for breakfast and she
gets black tongue.
But we did that in the triple episode, you know?
We've been doing this for decades and decades.
We've been doing cloak ships for decades.
Like, this is your child?
You want to do something fresh and original.
Bloody do it, you know?
Yeah, but that's the problem.
What they're doing instead is they've created what they think is a
place where the same tide old things will be fresh and original.
It turns out they're not because it's new to them because it's the
1st time.
Do you know what I mean?
They're only just learning to use the...
That is genuinely what Bragger and Berman Thor.
I think that is what they thought.
They should never have been running a show.
No, that's just because it's the 1st time we've done this, that
the audience will forget that we've done this 100 times.
We've done it for 14 years already.
That's right. isn't it?
Yeah.
But I'm pretty sure that that's what was in their hands.
Well, then, like Bragger says, you know, come season three.
We knew we literally knew we'd shot the franchise in the leg and
it was dying.
They basically said season 3 was going to be their last season.
So that's why he said, right, fine.
Fuck the studio.
We're going to do a season-long arc because it's the sort of thing
we wanted to do right from season one.
And we're going to do it whether you want us to do it or not
because you're going to kill us off anyway.
And I know you don't like season three.
No, it is ambitious. in a way that this is not ambitious.
No, that's true, but that's the other thing too.
They're so uncomfortable making Star Trek and, you know, some of
the choices that we've already discussed.
Uh, you know, the lack of diversity, all of that sort of thing.
They're so uncomfortable about the values of Star Trek that when
they kind of do their final fuck you season in series three, they
just throw them out the window.
Like, and they don't critique them, they don't examine them.
They don't, you know, they're not saying something about what they
are and unwittingly is saying America is right after 911 to do
whatever the fuck it wants on the world stage because it's angry.
And I think that's irresponsible.
He says that almost word for word is exactly what they were doing
in series three.
That's what Billingsley said.
No, that's what Braga says.
That's what Braga says.
Yeah, yeah, fuck that.
You know, that's outrageous.
And that's not why we watch Star Trek.
What's interesting is this is why we watch Star Trek.
It's Connor Trinier in a single.
No, it's Dr. Flock.
Oh, did I say Tripp was the best character?
I think Flux is the only character that could jump into one of the
other shows and actually, he would be great.
He's really good Yeah.
And it's it's not just the conception of the character.
It's Billingsley.
What's wonderful in that interview is Billingsley is so relaxed.
You know, he's just done work, you know, job after job and he
doesn't need this.
He chose to do this for a couple of years, you know.
And he's got a lot to say, but he he's talking like you
unfortunately, saying that a night in sick bay and episodes like
smaller sort of dramas where they're having a bit of fun.
The characters are hanging out together are sort of the Star Trek
that he wanted to tell.
And boys, he got something to say about series 3 as well.
Yeah, yeah, with similar things, I would think.
I think you are exactly on the same line as you two.
Yeah, I think that's right.
So this actually manages to be that, though.
This is a smaller story that doesn't really go anywhere, but like
it doesn't really have anything to say, but because Tripp is
mostly like fairly genial, it's actually quite nice.
And I do think I get a real sense of this being episode five.
It's maybe the 4th episode, I think, maybe in production.
Like it's very early on.
And so we're just getting these details of the ship and how it
works.
And although we've seen starships ever since the 1960s, there's
enough sort of difference and, you know, just the physicality of
it, you know, a shower, you know, clambering over the warp this
detail.
Why?
I get what they went for the gray because it's supposed to be sort
of, you know, a sort of, like a sub, yeah, like a submarine.
But it is a very boring colour to look at.
Yeah, and it's Matte as well.
Do you know what I mean?
It doesn't look like painted metal.
It doesn't really look like a Sab.
They don't really...
No, it is sort of painted in boring colours, but they use
interesting coloured lights all over the place. shapes as well
weird shapes.
So, we're on board the...
The space name ship.
Yep.
The Zerrillian Shot with an X. So you know, you know.
Yep, you know, they are in space. an X and a Y.
And this is a proper attempt to be weird.
This is the bare, the episode awful, actually.
In its direction worked rather well. you know who directed this?
No, it's Michael who has been directing Star Trek throughout the
90s and some of the best ever episodes as well.
He did change the face of evil and tacking into the wind in the
final DS9 rum.
He's, um, I think he did one of the killing game.
I think he did the killing game part one. you know?
Like, they usually give him the big sort of epic stories to do.
Um, not so here.
I like the line.
I like the line, I prefer air.
I can't see.
That's pretty good.
The way he goes in and it's all in sort of slow motion.
I thought I thought it's like going through water, isn't it?
And that was done extremely well.
Look, good boy, good Porthos look. like he likes Porthos.
He makes him give a thing.
He likes the guy.
No, he's got dogs, right?
It doesn't make him a likeable character.
No, no, but that was kind of cute.
That was a cute Porthos moment, I think.
So again, I think this is sort of weird.
You know, like, there's this display with lights.
I know it's basic.
I know it's basic, but 90s Star Trek so rarely attempts to make
the aliens seem weird.
And here, like this is a boring sound.
Look at that.
Look at the cheap plastic tubing everywhere.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, as usual, it's as cheap as anything.
But the aliens look, like, again, Vajar is going on really close
on Trinier's face.
And the dialogue is moving very gently.
Look at this.
Like, look at the when we're looking at what's his face, his name
is Tranal with a random... has a genuinely disorienting effect
this sequence.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And like they've got big giant eyes like they're coked off their
brains, so that adds kind of the idea, you know, big pupils, like
giant pupils like they're really off their face on something.
They seem to be wearing bin bags, though, as you know.
I mean, the ladies is so tight, it reminds me of 7 of 9 when she
was unveiled in her uniform in season four, Voyager.
Yeah, see, look at that.
I quite like that with the person running their hand over that
weird concept. slug creatures going past the window.
Yeah, now we're just walking past walking past a tank full of
eels.
Do you know what I love about that reason and there's no
dialogue?
Yeah, that's right.
We brought the eels with us. know, it's a thing.
We're going to do this amazing specialist.
Well, not amazing.
This is reasonable, especially the next shot, and we're not going
to explain it at all.
Yeah.
Yeah, so this does look really cheap.
But it is an attempt to be weird and to make the alien weird.
Yeah, untitled Star Trek project, we like weird.
Star Trek can deal with it.
It makes a, it really makes a change.
And I quite like how he's losing his shit here.
But they keep telling him, go and lie down and you'll feel
better.
We've done this a lot of times.
We're good with guests, like, and he's just like, no, no, I'm
going to keep going.
And it takes Archer to order him to go to bed before he finally
listens.
Yeah, I'm not quite sure that what that is, is that just sort of
matcho bullshit and you don't pay attention to what the
instructions are?
Yeah, the week when you were talking about... map, how amazing the
Romulan ship design is.
Not Romulans. sorry, the was it Romulan?
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the Warbur.
Yeah, not so here though, eh?
I actually don't mind that little weird looking ship, that little
slightly yellow, sort of slightly molten looking ship.
I mean, they've done so many at this.
So many alien ships.
How do you do something original now?
But like the way he's playing it, he's playing it like he's sort
of drug fucked as well, like I'm, you know, that 60s Star Trek in
a way.
And I think they will use more sort of 60s style stuff.
Like when he comes to and everything's is acclimated.
By the time we get to season four, you know, we're basically in
60s trek by that point.
Yeah, yeah.
It doesn't always look like 60s trek, though.
I think.
Yeah, here we go.
I was just telling himself.
Yeah.
Yeah, just just to not be a dick, you know, not be a, yeah.
And it's a rare moment of archer not being a, you know, stubborn
half wit and.
Where exactly, do you think these lizards scale on the bow mask
scale?
I think they look okay, actually.
I don't think they're too bad.
Um, you know, they're, I don't know.
They're lizard people. they pull it off.
It's totally something you can say in a Star Trek pop.
Yeah, they're lizard people, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
She's quite sexy.
Like I kind of buy the relationship that they have, you know, sexy
lizard lady.
I think that's all right.
The same sort of makeup they use when they burn people's faces
though, as well, you know?
Well, yeah.
It's good to know that the latex industry is still in work
though.
Now DS9 is.
Exactly.
Yeah, they're still managing to do something.
Yeah, and he wakes up and suddenly the director has calmed down a
bit.
She's still very oily.
There's that red thing.
See the red thing that he's sleeping in, which again seems like a
very 1960s. but it's cheap but it is like a very 1960s design.
It sort of feels like, you remember the sets in the Thor?
It sort of feels a bit like that, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
But that's also very 60s I think.
It's also very studio bound as well.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, we'll get...
The thing that confused me most about this episode is I figured
that the, the, the premise when they started was trip gets
pregnant, yeah?
Well, that doesn't occur till halfway through the episode.
The 1st half of the episode is like 1st contact, yeah?
The 2nd half of the episode is tripping.
And it's actually quite agreeable.
I think that maybe they're just a run with this.
All right, it would not be one that we remember still.
But I think you then avoid all that sort of hideous pregnancy
sitcom nonsense we get in the 2nd half of the episode.
But you see, I think this is quite sexy, isn't it?
Enterprise when they start feeding the crew. with the cheese in
that other episode.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm starting to figure out what your parents are doing this.
He's kind of getting into it and he has this sort of cute thing.
Yeah, it's kind of nice.
It's just like the physical touch of this species of aliens is
kind of pleasurable.
As you say at the end of the scene, I think I'm still a little bit
thirsty.
Yeah, yeah, it's just like, oh, I've been very dehydrated.
I'm gonna need to be fed a lot more of those water things.
This is it.
A man needs a lot of fluids when he's under the weather.
So he's really getting into it.
And look, like he's really enjoying the kind of centralness of and
she's touching his lips and stuff and he's sort of finding her hot
and she's a lizard lady.
I think that's awesome.
This sort of geniality would have been brilliant.
Was it if it was in Broken Bow in the 1st episode?
You needed some of this, you know?
Yeah, yeah.
He's so charming.
Oh, here we go on the bridge centre.
This boring...
It's very dull, isn't it?
Yeah, it is boring. don't know.
I'm trying to make a comparison with another one, but it's...
I mean, Voyager's gray, isn't it?
I don't know.
I mean, they were right to move away from the design language that
they had in in next gen and Voyager.
You know, they, I think it was time for a freshen up, but it's
still the same non-reflective surfaces.
It's just the problem.
But then look at those starships they designed in, oh, no, I said
in a different time period.
Sorry, I was about to say the Starships they designed in Picard
Series 3, which just, they looked very 90s trek, but sort of
updated.
But they're literally differently.
Yeah, that's the problem.
It's these flat, boring lines.
It was when the Enterprise came back in the last couple of
episodes and it was that boring hotel lighting again.
I'm like, oh, yes, they got it back again.
But I think they actually managed to make the lighting a bit
better.
Like without completely violating the whole idea.
A bit of effort here. switching the lights on and off.
There's different coloured gels at work.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, here we are in the holodeck.
Do you know what?
There's a shop down the road for me, right?
It sells gift wrapping that looks just like the inside of that.
Yeah.
That's so 60s trend. don't you think it's really 60s?
Well, there's a set, isn't it, with a big wall without that exact
effect?
So here's the problem, right?
This is the problem.
So we have this thing, which you're really standing in a room, but
the technology is so superb that you think you're outside and you
can't tell the difference between being in the room and being
outside.
And do you know what would have been a absolutely fantastic way of
selling that?
It would have been going outside and shooting this scene where
they're in the fucking holodeck, whereas what it looks like is a
room that's made up to look roughly like it's outside.
You know, like it, they have gotten better at doing this sort of
thing.
Why is it so short?
Why is it so bad?
They went to a lake.
What if they went to a lake?
I mean Jesus Christ.
Where are they, California?
There must be a lake in California.
Yeah.
Yeah, like there's that, look, that that painted sky is probably 3
or 4 feet away from them at this point.
Like that's it's pathetic. think.
Connor Trenier looks so handsome there, though, with the wind
ruffling his hair. so hot.
But yeah, I see what you're saying.
It's supposed to be, you know, defying the fact that it's
artificial, but it looks so artificial.
Yeah, that's right.
How is he convinced by any of this?
Yeah.
Remember the 1st time we saw the holiday in Star Trek the Next
Generation?
They did location shooting.
Exactly.
They did.
They can't get so excited.
I even saw automobiles working.
No, no, but what about, well, I mean, that's a backlot thing.
But in, in, in, in...
Yeah, they're outdoors.
See, this is so sexy.
Look, he's having he's smiling.
He's sort of just, it's just cute.
There's something terribly sweet about it.
I've not seen sexier Star Trek, if I'm honest, but they do have
some, it's sweet.
We say it's sweet.
Yeah, it's sexy for Star Trek, I think.
I don't think this is...
Except that she has that funny line, like what are the rules?
and he says, well, the rules are, no, she says, yeah, the rules
are, it doesn't work unless it is for hands involved, so he puts
his other hand in.
I think that's sort of huge.
Is this what makes him pregnant then, putting his hands in his
crystals?
Yeah.
A strange way of procreating, you know?
Yeah, but I mean, they also like the touch is pleasurable and they
can hear each other's thoughts.
Yeah, look, it takes more hands to work.
Look, and he's smiles.
Like, they're really hitting it off.
Tell you my problem with this scene.
What's that?
They just can't leave the fucking holodeck alone, can they?
Yeah.
So it's another cliche in an episode that's full of cliches in
this bold new direction that Star Trek's taking.
And to give Reed the line later where he goes, you know, imagine
if we had one of these on the ship and what we could do with it.
Oh, I could not believe it.
Yeah, it's so bad.
Doesn't someone, doesn't, isn't the sort of thing, imagine what we
could do with it?
And then Trinier says, I don't think you can make people.
So clearly they were both thinking we could use it to fuck.
Don't you think?
Like, like, well, yeah, isn't they?
You can rely on, DS9, to just be doing sex gags left, right, the
centre of the holiday, you know?
It's not this sort of chased one-liners.
Don't you remember Mariner has to clean out the whole deck?
In lower days.
You know what people do in there?
Just don't go in there with, you know, one of those purple lights
all right?
You're having a lot of trouble.
So we, so we just had that a very cute thing where he, he said, oh
you find me attractive to her and she replied, you really like it
when people find you attractive and then he sort of blushes and
he's sort of very cute about it.
You know, I think they hit it off.
And that is quite a fun exchange, but like I said to you, off Mike
Wild Ralph, who is very aware of all the cliches of Star Trek, what
is this human thing you call love, walked in at exactly that point
where she went, you find me attractive.
I went, oh, God.
I just walked out the room again.
He said that to her.
He said that he said that she found him attractive.
I think it would have been better if he had been forced to admit
that he was attracted to her too.
I know I know it's quite amiable.
I know it's quite sweet.
But even that, an alien and a human.
But she's like a lizard. like a white guy.
I know I don't know.
It just isn't a hint of originality, is there?
Yeah, no, but it is that sort of thing where, um, where he can go
over and meet these aliens and they can sort of hit it off in this
sort of way and that they have a little bit of chemistry and
stuff.
I think that's kind of cute.
I can imagine people switching on to this show that they're sort
of advertising as this fresh new Star Trek, watching the 1st
couple of strange new worlds with this and just going, oh, no
thank you.
This is the same old shit.
Just worse.
I'm gonna turn it off.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I think the holiday thing, like that's ridiculous, but I am
convinced that they think that because our characters are
encountering a holiday for the 1st time, then somehow that's more
interesting.
Do you know why I'm angry?
I'm angry because I sat there and watched Brandon Bragger, you
know, with his head in his hands and I don't think this is his
fault.
This isn't the, this isn't what they want.
They didn't want the 1st season on a starship.
They didn't want all the usual cliches, but they were told they
had to do it.
So effectively, the studio shot themselves in the head.
Well, they would say that for a start, wouldn't they?
Like, if it had been successful, I just, I don't want anything
about it.
I had to go there to face them and have that conversation and
apologise.
Because he's got the studio to blame.
And like, I have to say that if that 1st season of enterprise had
just been them building the ship, that that would have been well
beyond what they were able to do because all they can do is
produce episodic Star Trek.
And so it would have been shit.
Like they've never...
I just think it would have been terrible.
Star Trek.
We've not seen them do anything else.
So maybe maybe they could have.
I don't know.
Yeah, but I mean, like even series 3 is still a starship goes
somewhere and a thing happens and they resolve it and then they go
on to the next thing.
But like, here we go.
I'm like, I'm going to drop this in a second.
Unlike DS9, where I had a Paul of writers, I just went, fuck the
studio.
Let's just make the show we want to make and let's make it really
really good.
This was so tied up in bureaucracy and ill choices and people
leaning on the show in the wrong ways.
I don't know if they ever had a chance.
No, but I think that there was some fundamental mistakes that
Birmingham Braga made.
I might have Burma and Braga's fingerprints all over it and
whatever they say about studio interference.
It doesn't exonerate them for making a bit of a bad show.
I think it's largely their fault.
I suppose we'll never know, will we?
No, but I think all of that stuff about dumbing it down. you know
having characters that are not threateningly intelligent, you
know?
Do you remember that scene where I'll try to book and a ball in
his hands at the same time?
Yeah, yeah.
Just to keep it relatable to the American man.
Or, you know, when Andreas Katsulis asks him what play of
Sophocles would be good to read next and he kind of goes, I think
you could work that out for yourself.
I just think. yeah you're pathetic.
I don't know if you saw that impressive size.
I'm kind of Trinier's bulge in his underwear then.
I did.
I was actually looking at it.
There it is.
Yeah, there it is.
You can see it.
Excuse me, I'm just gonna...
I'm hiring up as Dr. Fox's medical assistant.
Okay?
Well, you can see why the lizard lady got so excited.
So, so here's another...
I know.
I can't think about the dialogue anymore. blushing a little bit.
He is so handsome.
Suddenly, it's showing very relatable, you know?
Yeah, yeah.
It's but it's not it's not just that he's attractive.
Like, he's a little bit kind of white bred.
You know, he's a little bit more clean cut than I normally like.
I think he's terribly attractive, but I think he's charming as
hell.
Like, I just think he's absolutely as charming as hell.
What really works about his character is he is.
I think it racist to start off with. you know he's got all these
preconceptions.
And actually, as we go through the series, a lot of them are
confronted and he comes out a better person as a result.
Well, even in this episode, he says, this is why I joined
Starfleet.
I went over there.
I met these aliens.
I had a really interesting time.
I learned from them.
I did a thing I helped out.
I came back.
This is why I joined or the service or whatever it is, not
Starfleet.
But do you know what I mean?
Like, this is a very Star Trek premise and it was, it was executed
in a very Star Trek way.
And then I think this is all a bit stupid.
And I think part of the reason is this, right?
That they dismiss in a line, the possibility of destroying the
blast acist because it's in his pericardium or something.
So it's, it's, it's in a place where it can't be removed safely by
them.
Okay.
So there's no chance of aborting it because this is American
television and you know, we can't depict people having abortions
because we're absolute religious maniacs.
And, and then, Then there's this shame about being impregnated and
the Klingon laughs at him about being impregnated and he's kind of
embarrassed by it.
And there are women on the ship and women get impregnated and why
is that humiliating?
You get impregnated and that's humiliating because women get
impregnated?
Fuck that.
That I, that's dreadful.
I think that's dreadful.
And, you know, obviously there's all sorts of trans issues that
are just completely, we're completely unaware.
Or even thinking about, whatever.
They're not in thinking.
No, that's right.
This is a very, very cis heterosexual shock.
Oh, I don't even think a lot of that was in the ether back then
you know, not like it's discussed now.
No, no, no.
Of course people were.
But it wasn't in the public's consciousness like it has been in
the last sort of 5 years.
Sure.
That's true.
But I just kind of, that annoys me.
The thing that annoys me even more is it could have been worse.
Like, I think it's it's gently mocking, whereas it could have been
profit and lace, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, but it is that thing.
It's humiliating to be put in the position of a woman who gets
impregnated who gets pregnant.
That's humiliating for a man, even though, like, in straight
couples.
Do you know what I mean?
Like women get pregnant and that's not embarrassing or humiliating
but you, you know, because men are better than women or
something.
Like it's so...
I don't think I've ever seen the male pregnancy and it's happened
in a couple of shows I've watched.
It's never been done well.
No, because it is, isn't it funny?
Women are kind of a bit crap and he's a man being humiliated by
being put into that position.
And like he's worrying about.
They were obviously going to lean into the cliches, you know, so
suddenly he's irrational and emotional.
So his emotion.
Yeah, yeah.
And here he's worried about what happens if a little kid, you know
is in this...
Yeah, yeah.
Like, for goodness sake.
They should have made him carry it to town. you. worried about
that.
Like, what the fuck?
And why are they designing a handwriter like that?
At least we were...
We didn't have to watch the, you know, the birth sequence.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Although the end of this plot where she just goes, oh, yeah, we
can take it out. don't worry I was like, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah.
But what else are they going to do?
Like, they've got to be back.
He's got to be back on board next week.
Well, I was trying to figure a through line for this.
So like from the beginning of the episode to the end, what trip is
learning?
And what we are learning as an audience about this whole
audience.
No, I don't think we're learning anything.
No, no, I don't think that's wearing baggy clothes now.
Look.
It's got his maternity shirt.
Yeah, that's right.
And it's this tiny thing. like those are not very tight fitting
uniforms.
I think you could conceal that little bump.
Even these things, you often have these sequences where Archer
invites people over for dinner and they have, you know, nice
conversation around the table.
Ah, I prefer the DSR approach where you get some round and they're
all sort of making the dinner together, you know, and it's, it
feels so much...
The strange new worlds approach.
Yeah, well, that's but they did it in GS9 first.
And they do it brilliantly as well, where it feels like a family
whereas it just feels like a formal dinner, you know?
Yeah, yeah.
And like now he's like, I was just waiting for him to order ice
cream with pickles on it.
Do you know what I mean?
Like I just thought it was going to be just every cliche of every
sitcom pregnancy.
Like, I just don't know what the point of this is. you know, it
was bound to be offensive.
Um, and, oh, Jesus Christ, the nipples on his...
I mean, you did say to me, didn't you, when I said this, you
started quoting those lines from insurrection about boobs being
firmer.
I mean, that is sort of cute and funny.
But like, that or insurrection?
No, the, like the, like that could have been funny.
That's a weird Star Treky thing to happen.
That's not sort of, you know, but it doesn't work.
And because the whole tone of the thing is sort of horribly wrong
at this point.
Like, what is delivering the baby?
And he's got looks like a little... like he's just swallowed down
shit or something.
Like, that's so cool.
Women go through that all the time, mate.
All right.
Yeah, yeah.
And it would have actually been better.
It hints at it.
He's less distressed by it than he could have been.
This could have been worse.
But if this was just, oh, wow, whoops, this is a thing that can
happen with aliens and if no one is like, it's not funny that
they're losing their shit over it.
It's not funny that it's 3 men.
Well, I don't know.
I think I think it would have been more, I don't know.
Did you see that?
How's he going to be able to hide his bulge?
We weren't doing that earlier.
No, that's right.
Oh, and then we're talking, then we're doing the dialogue.
He's saying that as the guy comes in as the the servant, the
yeoman comes in to bring in their breadsticks or whatever.
I just say, because I have been very hard on surprise in this
episode.
It's one thing I really like about it. and it's not just because
I'm a gay man who fancies men.
But the way they objectify the men on this show in the way that
original series did with women.
I actually think that's quite nice.
Uh, but I don't think they do it.
Like, I don't think they have the men that pretty.
I don't know.
Conish is very pretty.
Connor Tranier is, yeah.
But certainly current Star Trek, Kurtzman Trek has prettier man.
That's very true.
There's not, didn't too bad, you know.
Cisco?
Come on, maybe.
Sorry, quick, get us back on track.
Anthony Montgomery is a very handsome man. there you go Yes, that's
true.
That's true.
Oh my God, it's a poles in your chair already, Kira, to wait 4
seasons.
Well, she's 2nd in command.
Okay, so this...
Now the Klingons come along to add a bit of false jeopardy and
none of that works, either.
I don't think.
No, they're just like the intransigent aliens of the week, but it
is also our 1st sort of proper encounter with the Klingons, isn't
it?
Or we've, it sounds like we've had a Klingon on the Earth, isn't
it, in the 1st episode?
Yes, they capture.
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
Klingon lands on Earth.
Yes, and there is a reference to that here.
I was wondering where it is.
I do think, again, this is going back to original trade.
There's primitive Klingon ship designs.
Yeah, great.
Yeah.
And that ship design is kind of used.
Like they have the bird of prey, but they also have this shaped
theme.
That actually not the close-up.
The nice CGI shot as well, I think.
Yeah, yeah, I don't think it was a cartoon, but yeah, it's quite
detailed.
Yeah.
But this sequence, like, you brought up earlier, where they start
laughing the Red Soft about the fact that he's pregnant.
It's so distasteful.
Yeah, it's great.
Are we supposed be laughing along with them?
Yeah, is it funny that he's been...
All these men are laughing at the fact that a man is pregnant?
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, you know, I just, I did just try and make a defence of Braga
and Burman, but I think, you know, there's also this.
Yeah, look, there's less of it than I expected, but there is still
enough of it to annoy the hell out of me, though.
Well, because sort of the pregnancy thing is sort of a 10 minutes
towards the end of the episode.
You do wonder, what's the point of that?
It's the title.
Like, it's more than 10 minutes.
It's like nearly half the episode.
Um, but yeah.
But of course, as well, we had to have a bit of action, didn't
we?
I shot fired and yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's like the, that's okay. like have action.
You remember all those sort of sitcom episodes of DSNI we watched
where there's none of that?
And it's just perfectly agreeable to watch.
But I bet if you went and watched every Enterprise episode, I bet
there is an action sequence in every single episode, whether it's
needed or not.
I'm not against action.
No.
But I have to say that anyone who complains about discoveries
Klingons or um, Star Trek beyond like the, um, other Star Trek
films, Klingons should have to watch this because it's like it's
now year 15 of these fucking Klingons and they're so played and
they're so tired and there's nothing alien or interesting about
them anymore because we've just done them to death.
You know, we have to do them now and they're just super boring.
Like they're just.
Well, you sort of have the Klingons turning up here and it is just
like this, these sort of random characters.
You had them turning up in Voyager in prophecy when they thought
Belana Torres's baby was the sacred prophet of the Klingons.
What are you doing with this?
The last time they were interesting was when we talked about it in
the Purpatory Shadow was when you had Wharf and Martog.
And it was about the relationship rather than the race, you know?
No, it's just this sort of boring crap, you know.
And like he says something about Stovacor as well, and I kind of
think, oh, come on, fuck off.
And I hate to say this, but this is now a cliche number, you know
what, five, 6 in this episode?
Yeah, yeah, there we go.
There's Stoker.
Oh, and there's Hoshi explaining that it means the afterlife.
Like, really, go away.
Well, it's nice that you got a life.
Yeah, that's true.
I don't think Andy Montgomery said a thing, yeah.
Apart from, you know, what for, sir?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, both of them have just said functional dialogue and that's
all.
He should have said exactly what Tim Ross said in that interview
you know, is that the one where I said, they're approaching us on
a course, captain.
I love that episode, you know?
So is, is it in Broken Bow Part 2 that um, Archer goes to the
Klingon home world?
Yeah, it is.
Yeah, to take that. spectacular CGI shot, as you saw earlier.
Right, brilliant.
Like, I don't, I don't want to piss anymore, but that is, hey
really terrible pilot.
Broken bow.
Is it?
Yeah.
I have seen it.
I think I think the levels of races have displayed in that would
really turn anybody off.
Unfortunately, show.
Yeah.
Oh, here we go now. thought that was a good idea.
I did find out he's pregnant.
Laughter and shoes.
Ah.
Like, this is the climax of the bloody story.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So, and it's the holography thing.
Like, so so human beings encounter the holodeck in 2151, and yet
Picard is super surprised by it in like 23, whatever.
And like, that doesn't matter. like whatever, but it doesn't
really make a great deal of sense and it's sort of super boring.
Like it actually makes a holodeck even more boring because it's a
thrilling news technological development in series one of Star
Trek, but it turns out that it's already existed for 100s of years
and like whatever, you know, we gave it to some Klingons so that
they could look at their house.
There's that stupid line where, um, what's his name?
Vorox says, oh, I can see my house from here.
Well, the shame is, um, do you remember we watched the masterpiece
society recently?
And we were sort of bemoaning the lack of chemistry between Troy
and what was his name?
Kevin Darren.
It was some...
Thank you.
I knew it was a very plain name.
Sorry to any hours listening.
But what you had here was 2 actors with genuine chemistry at the
beginning of the episode and we've abandoned that for this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Look, there's, like, it doesn't even look like he's pregnant.
Showing off his abs.
What's he being what's he being ashamed of?
It's so chaste, isn't it?
Yeah.
They should have given a massive stomach, yeah.
Yeah.
Like they're so timid about it.
It's supposed to be funny and it's supposed to be humiliating for
him and stuff, but like what?
Okay, I could just genuinely, what I want to do is have a peek
into the room of somebody, you know, new to enterprise back in the
day when this 1st came out watching this and seeing their reaction
to it.
What the hell is going on here?
And so there's a failure to be about anything. isn't there?
Like, they bring the Klingons back in.
And at this point, the show is mostly invested in just being Star
Trek.
Like it doesn't have anything.
I'm going to say something that you're really going to dislike.
At least, and I know this a 1000000 problems with this episode, at
least profit and lace, came to a conclusion where he says, I've
learned to be more empathetic.
I've learned this.
She says, well, you made a terrible son, but a wonderful
daughter.
Like, but they do try and tie it up.
There's no Apple.
Yeah, yeah.
But this isn't about anything.
And you know, of course, the profit and lace doesn't go anywhere
because he never actually genuinely shows anymore empathy or
anything afterwards.
False sequences in that episode.
Yeah.
That's Ira Bear, you know, what was going on there?
Yeah, dreadful.
We did let heal about it as well.
We had his moments, Captain's holiday.
Oh my god.
Look at this. in a amazing city in the far distance.
In the far distance, just predicted on the wall behind us.
I've seen backcloths in the 60s Doctor Who that look more
convincing than that shot.
No, like that is a nice CG shot with like with real practical
moments.
No, it's a it's a nicely designed shop, but they're just matted
into it.
Like, you know, like they're standing in front of a... renders the
shock.
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
No, no, it's a pretty design, but it's just a shitty shot.
And the whole point of it is let's show how realistic holography
is and it just looks like a cheap scene from a sort of crappy 90s
Star Trek show, you know?
You see that?
We have no interesting meeting you again, humans.
Yeah, you know.
The only thing worse than spending 3 hours in a decompression bay
is watching this episode twice in a day.
I did watch this episode twice.
This is the 3rd time I've done it a week.
The things I do for the podcast.
Oh my god.
And I quite like this too, where Archer is about to, like, he
thinks that he's very highly regarded in the Klingon Empire.
And Paul says, no, I was just bullshitting.
You know, I forgot to mention my favourite line in the whole
episode.
The one bit that made me laugh was when Tapol says to Tripp, and
she's still being a prick, but she goes, you should, um, oh, what
is it she says?
You should be careful where you stick your hands or something. you
put stick hands?
No, you said that before we pressed by.
And I said, because it's one of her lines that should end with the
words, you fucking idiot.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Off they go into the distance, having...
Not exciting adventures.
Nothing.
We've just mashed together a whole bunch of Star Treky things. from
the future of the program and we've managed to be less offensive
than you might have expected about trips pregnancy.
I'm sorry.
I love it when you deliver fake breaks.
We've managed to be less offensive than you feared we would be.
Yeah, that's right.
Well, there you go.
What an achievement.
But I genuinely think maybe the 1st 15 minutes of that or maybe
the 1st half of it is substantially better.
And then the whole thing just goes to hell because essentially
there's nowhere to go.
The pregnancy thing is just stupid and like, what are we going to
do with that?
And so it turns out we just bring Klingons in for some jeopardy
and like what?
I don't know.
I suggest the 1st 15 minutes were inoffensive.
And I think that's being kind.
Whereas the last half an hour was just a bit tedious.
But it did some things that I like, which was it showed us why
we're out here, you know, that this is why we're here and what our
mission is, and it showed Connor's character really enjoying
that.
For the 1st time as well.
Yeah, it had some really attempts at weird visuals.
There was chemistry between him and the guest actor, you know, I
thought that was good.
You're right about the facts that we're only just exploring these
sets for the 1st time.
Like, we're not watching this our order, but at this point in the
show's run.
If you're watching them in order, then we're like, okay, we want
to see the ship and we want to...
Yeah, yeah.
So there is that.
And I like that.
But I'm telling you now, we'll stop this recording and I won't
remember this in half an hour's time.
No, I think I'm faded to remember it.
I think I'll be thinking about this episode on my deathbed.
Can I ask you, we never do this sort of thing, and I know you
don't like doing this sort of thing.
But like, where does this one fall in the sort of enterprises that
we've done?
cogenitor, Strange New World, the two-parter Terra Prime.
Yeah, I mean, Terra Prime is a better.
You know, they've learned how to make enterprise at that point.
It's boring in some way.
But it's cough, but I thought it was, you know, substantially
better.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think it's competent.
Cogenitor's more interesting. things going for.
Cogenitor is a better hour of television that has a clear idea of
what it wants to do, but what it wants to do is absolutely fucked
and it's a, it's a disgrace.
I think it's, say, a night in Sick Bay is still the best
enterprise we've watched.
I think a night in Sick Bay is the best enterprise.
You are so contrary, I swear.
It's really fun.
They chase a bat.
Hoshi gets to do something. like there's all sorts of functions
light in it. and I know they acknowledge that a lot.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's an episode about what an asshole archery.
So I thought it was really good.
About time somebody said it.
Yeah, but I think cogenitor is good, but I think cogenitor is so
unstar treky and so gross.
Like the politics of it are so bad that I just can't like it.
It made me furious.
What's frustrating is we haven't had an out and out win, I don't
think. yeah.
No.
And I think there are a couple in there.
So I'm hoping we do at some point.
It would be real nice to just fully endorse this show.
It's like, you know what?
This is a good example.
Have they all been as good as this?
We might have had a winner on our ass.
Yeah.
Look, like, I don't know.
It was all right.
Like nobody died.
Stop it.
Half-heart compliments.
All right, it's the end of the episode, and it is time for us to
work out what we're going to watch next time, and it's my go on
the button, so I'm here at Untitled Star Trek Project.com slash
Randomiser, and I want you to ask me what we're doing.
Oh, Nathan, what are we going to be doing next week?
Which shows are we covering?
So I have done this before.
We are going to watch an animated episode of Star Trek.
Does that include prodigy?
So animated series.
Short Treks has 2 or 3 animated things, so I've included that.
Star Trek Lower Decks and Star Trek Prodigy.
Okay.
Yeah.
So it'll be one of those. whether it's good or not, who can say?
I mean, by a law of odds, we'll get an animated series episode
because there's more of those than the others put together.
Let's go.
We've only ever done one animated series one, and this is episode
69.
Star Trek project, I think.
I gave that free stars, you know.
Oh, God, but he gave Wolf in the fold 3 stars as well. right.
Okay, your random Star Trek prodigy episode is Dreamcatcher, which
is season one, episode four.
I have no idea what happened.
We've done 2 projects, we've done 2 of 10, haven't we?
Yeah, no, there's 20.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. they did the 2nd half of the season.
So they did a split 1st season of 10 episodes each.
And it comes to a conclusion and a really lovely conclusion
actually.
I'm looking forward to seeing what they do next, but it was pretty
good.
I haven't watched it through.
I probably should have, but I really liked what I saw or why I've
seen so far.
Well, I won't rule out prodigy, but it might be nice to do one
from the 2nd half of the season where things have shaken up a
bit.
Things change a little bit in that 2nd half and I think that'll be
interesting to talk about.
Okay, so press the button again.
Uh, time amuck, uh, which we've done?
We did Untitle Star Trek Project, episode 22.
I do love the fact that a randomiser tells you that as well.
Yes, yeah, I like to advertise our show.
So this one's called Preludes, and I think we'll do this.
This is season one, episode 16 of Prodigy.
So this is in the 2nd half of the 1st season in the in the split.
So things have moved on a little bit.
You'll get it.
You know, it's a kids' show.
It's not going to be hard to follow.
But I think it takes an interesting tack and we're nearing the
end.
So it ends in episode 20.
What are the odds of putting all of those in and getting 3
prodigies coming up?
back to back.
I'll show you.
I swear.
I don't know. you a liar.
I've collected them.
Yeah, it's just luck, you know. what are you going to do?
Or JavaScript, pseudo.
Oh, they got sub rose at once, you know?
The randomiser is eclectic.
Yeah, it loves us.
All right, so let's do that.
I mean, it's more Janeway, more hologram, hologrammatic Janeway.
Much more Jane...
I can't remember.
He isn't in it in person, but he might be in it in flashback or as
a hologram at some point, but he's not in any major way, I don't
think, but Janeway is...
Murth episode, you know, going into all of his backstory.
He's my favourite.
I love it.
He's so good.
That amazing bit, the pilot where they're trying to escape the
mining colony or wherever it was, and they had the ship's blowing
up, and, you know, they're in terrible danger, and Murph just
slides across the bridge.
It was so funny. so great.
So much.
Okay, well, I can't wait because we barely touch this.
So I think there's plenty to talk about.
Brilliant.
Excellent.
Let's do it You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project
with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley.
We're online at Untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find
links to our Twitter, Mastodon, Facebook and YouTube channel.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Sisserin, and the theme was
composed by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 5th of June 2023 and released on
the 16th of June.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek prodigy and news.
You know, the next episode, you know, it's all about Anthony
Montgomery's character.
It's the one episode he got in the four year rum.
Oh, okay.
Does he have a brother or something?
He's, what was he, a boomer?
I think it's a fella, a fella boomer comes along or something.
Yeah, okay.
It's very boring.
Yeah, okay, it's season one of Enterprise.
I don't remember.
Yeah.
Let's see.
All right.
Do you know what?
The more I think about it, the more the half-hearted compliments
you throw at terrible episodes.
I think they're the funniest moments of this podcast.
A bit in dramatic persona where you went, yeah, well, you wanted
to learn how to tell the time.
Sorry, made a...
He didn't know what time it was. and he really would quite like to
know.
Oh, dear, oh, dear.
Yeah, you are right.
It could have been a lot worse.
Yeah, I thought it was gonna be much more offensive than that.
Wait till you watch the wrong wet. goes through Pomphar.
He like wants to fuck everyone on the show.
But it's all filmed like a horror movie.
Like a sexually voracist woman is something to fear.
Oh, dear.
Okay.
What are we gonna do?
I should look at what we've done.
What did we do last week?
we did Picard. last week.
We did this now the week before, but a bit of a run of 90s.
Oh, no, we did TOS the week before, sorry.
Yeah, we have actually mixed it up a bit, aren't we, the last
couple?
I've got one.
All right, it's the end of the episode and it is time for us to
work out what we're going to watch next.