Hey, Joe. Hi.
So, we are back in the realms of Kurtzman Trek, and given the huge
event that was Star Trek Picard series 3, just a few weeks ago, it
turns out we're doing the episode of Picard that comes in just
before that, the final episode of series 2, which everyone has
forgotten.
It was broadcast about a year ago, maybe just slightly more than
that, and it's called Farewell.
Do you remember when you were pushing the button about 500 times
last week?
And every time we got Picard, you were going, no, it's not series
3.
We were desperate to talk about that.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I'm really keen to do series 3 and we obviously will go
there and we've talked a little bit about it on the podcast
because it's hard to avoid.
But this actually is farewell because it is goodbye to a version
of Picard that doesn't come back this year, that what we get this
year is completely different.
Even to the point where, you know, you don't have the titles, you
don't have the opening music.
It's a completely different show.
So, Terry, I don't know how to say his name.
I think?
Yeah.
Yeah, so he is a producer on this version of the show.
He doesn't sort of come in and take over in series 3 or anything
like that.
But it is very much his thing series three.
And I think he did a magnificent job.
He did exactly what we wanted, perhaps, as fans, and I think what
the original cast of Star Trek, The Next Generation, wanted to do
too.
The fact that they all came back for it quite happily.
But I think it is worth remembering that you don't get Patrick
Stewart back for that, you know, originally.
And what brings him back, I think, is the chance to star in a
different kind of Star Trek show and a show that has ambitions to
say something.
I think it was important to Stuart that the show have some
political purpose.
And I think both of those 1st 2 series do that.
I'm less convinced about Picard Serious 3 than you are, and that's
why I want to talk about it, because I think it started with an
awful lot of promise, and essentially became a massive blank job
to TNG by the end of the series.
That's not really what I was there for.
Well, I think that that's what everyone else was there for.
And I think that that's actually what it promised.
And I think I remember the moment where the Enterprise D appears.
And it turns out that they're going to save the day in the
Enterprise D together.
And I thought, holy shit.
How did I not realise that that was where we were going to go all
along?
Well, I don't think that's where we were going all along.
I think in that last series, they said, right, well, here's our
opportunity to really delve into nostalgia.
But if that's where they were going, why did they do series one
and series 2 of Picardo in a completely different direction?
Interestingly, watching this.
You know, the trade-off is you lose fantastic characters like
Agnes and Rios, who I think by the end of their 1st series, this
ensemble came together in a pretty spectacular way.
And those 1st couple of episodes of series 2.
I was so on board with Picard at that point.
I didn't watch all the two.
So I'm guessing I was less convinced as it went along.
And instead you, you know, you kick out those characters and bring
back Dr. Bev and Counsellor Troy.
I mean, come on, you think that's an upgrade?
Well, yeah, in a way, because I think this is the last chance to
get that.
And I think because these guys had a pretty crummy run in the
films.
This felt to me like a proper Star Trek, the Next Generation film
where we'd had time to miss them like we did with the original
crew.
So where it was a real reunion.
It wasn't just, you know, next week at the office, we're shooting
Star Trek generations and no time has passed.
So we've had sort of a proper time to miss them, proper time to
kind of appreciate them.
And rather than it just being Burman producing the films of the
show that he had produced, it's a whole new group of producers
with a completely different aesthetic, uh, with, you know
different types of dialogue, with different types of TV writing
and serialisation.
And so it's great seeing all of those people in that context.
So I really liked series three.
I think it was an achievement.
But I can only imagine the actors who were playing these roles in
Picard felt a bit like the actors who played roles for 4 years in
Enterprise when TNG came along in the last episode and went
actually, we're what this is all about.
Oh, you know, overall, was what I think is those characters, this
ensemble, had massive potential.
I don't think it was entirely realised, but the potential was
definitely there.
So I think, like, I suspect that the reason that we get rid of
Rios and Agnes, and I think we get rid of Agnes last week, actually
in last week's episode. was going to ask about that.
Yeah.
Yeah, my memory of it's not very strong, but I think that last
week she's off to the Delta Quadrant.
So we get rid of Rios and her at the end of this series because
we're anticipating doing Picard series 3 with all of the next
generation cast, perhaps.
So, you know, they kind of reach the natural end.
Rios, I think, has a good ending in this episode.
Well, that character could sparehead a Star Trek show.
He is so good.
He is so charismatic and such an interesting character as well.
Yeah, no, we were imagining Star Trek Rios sort of carrying on.
Frequently. contractual obligation shower scene.
Yeah, yeah, as well.
So, like, he was really great.
We did keep Raffi and we did keep 7 and I think that they were
both spectacular and they were well served in series three.
So I was really glad about that.
And there were attempts to do other things, like I think they were
going to bring Soji perhaps back, but they never ended up being
able to do it.
You know, I thought it was a shame that Eleanor kind of vanishes
after barely being in this season.
You know, he gets to be alive at the end. when you said, oh, well
Noel came back.
I was like, who?
I don't think he didn't make too much of an impact on me.
Little Bromulant Truth Ninja.
He was adorable.
He was so cute in series one.
You know what's shocking about this episode. is kind of how muted
it is.
Now, I don't know what, I did quite like this.
And I thought, sort of, soon to seeing it worked fairly well, but
when it was over, I was like, well, like a, this is technically a
series finale or the card as it was originally envisioned.
It was so quiet and a little bit underwhelming.
Well, I mean, series 3 of Picard was careful to kind of end the
plot to end the kind of conflict and things quite early in that
final episode, and about half of the final episode was kind of
devoted to us doing stuff with the characters and seeing where
they went.
So I guess this does that as well.
I think the problem with this. is there's a big mystery setup
which is that something is about to happen over the next few days
that will be the inflection point between the future that brings
us Star Trek and the future that brings us the confederation.
And I don't think that that's strongly emphasised.
And maybe it's made clear to us in part 9 exactly what that's
going to be, but I doubt it.
And so here it's very muted.
Well, I said to you, I was watching the previously on Picard, thick
figuring, you know what?
It's the season finale. going to catch me up with the whole
season.
Actually, it gave me a couple of clips from the last few episodes
and didn't explain really what was going on.
So I was like, okay, I went into this going, okay, I get the fact
that if that rocket doesn't go up, that, you know, then that is
going to bring that other timeline to be for what, for some reason
I just couldn't figure it out.
And it isn't detailed within the episode.
Well, I think it is, I think it is eventually made clear in the
episode and I think the show has something to say, but I do think
it's a bit undercooked.
And I think that, you know, this season story is a story that kind
of peters out a little bit and needed a little bit more of a
bang.
Another thing that surprised me was where I chipped out of the
season, which was sort of episode 4 or five. and then where this
starts, there's not like between that and that, there's not a
great deal of plot.
So what happened in those 5 episodes?
Yeah, I think he missed a lot of sort of fun stuff with the Borg
Queen and Agnes.
There is sort of terrible inside Picard's head episode, which is
best forgotten.
Is it a bit sexy?
No, no, no, no.
It's kind of like, you know, like a, you know, how they do one of
these episodes where we're in the character's head and everyone
play, you know, they do it on Deep Space 9 every couple of seasons
where in Julian's head with a lady who... with terrible old age
latex.
Yeah, exactly.
So there's that sort of stuff.
And there's more stuff about talent, uh, who is the spiritual kind
of um, successor to Gary 7 from, I don't even remember what that's
called.
Is it called Assignment Earth?
More on her departure later.
Okay?
Yes.
Yeah, I thought that was very strange. very old.
Yeah.
But, um, you know, like I think it worked really well.
I thought there were some really good bits.
I certainly thought that the bit with Rios and Teresa and Rios and
Ricardo and stuff and all of that introduction in the medical
centre and the fact that, you know, Ice is the villain and all of
that kind of thing.
Like I thought that stuff immediately after assimilation.
I think we watched it, didn't we?
We watched an episode called Assimilation together for untitled
Star Trek Project.
And what happened immediately after that, I thought, was really
really good.
So I think there's some great stuff in this season.
And this is a kind of interesting, but you're right, a sort of
muted finale to the whole enterprise, I think.
Because I went in and 1st of all, I spent the 1st 10 minutes going
okay, where is every character?
What's going on, you know?
And we are completely in this period of television now, whereas if
you don't watch it all, you sometimes you don't catch up.
You know?
And I was a bit irritating.
And then they're all sort of doing fun things trying to stop this
rocket from not going up.
So I was like, okay, this feels like I'm getting heavy Star Trek 4
vibes here. contemporary times. everyone's sort of working
together to stop this catastrophe from happening.
And I was really involved.
And then you're right, the whole 2nd half.
It was a lot of quiet character moments.
Yeah.
Look, kind of worked because the, I think the characters are
formed now and a lot of them are saying goodbye and that's really
sad.
Yeah, quiet.
For a season finale in modern day television. extremely quiet.
Yeah.
Watch it, don't you think?
I think we should.
I will count us in then. 543, two, one, and we're off.
Like, what was the reaction to this season?
Do you know?
Um, I have never really met anyone who's sort of wholeheartedly
into Star Trek, Picard, have to say, in a way that...
I was, like, I liked both seasons.
I think series 2 is better than one.
I love the politics of both series. like their attempts to be
political.
I like the fact that it's not a spaceship-based show necessarily
which I think is interesting.
It's funny, you know.
I think the thing I like about it now, those 1st few years, is it
dares to be different.
Yeah.
And it's a bit darker as well.
It's sort of Star Trek with an age.
We're still allowed to say fuck on this version of Star Trek, but
we aren't understood.
Every now and again.
Yeah, that's right.
Well, Picard says it in series three.
Who the hell is Renee Picard?
This is another thing I was trying to figure out.
So she's the astronaut on board the Europa mission.
So she is obviously an ancestor of Pecans or someone related to
the car.
We've never heard about before.
Well, he's got lots of ancestors we've never heard about.
That's okay.
So she is the one who's sort of making this decision.
And so here is Agnes as the Borg queen explaining what's at
stake.
She has come to yet another song.
This is Adam Song, um, who is a sort of tech billionaire and has
convinced him that if he, if he stops the Europa launch or stops
Renee getting on the Europa launch, then it'll be his technology
that's used to mitigate the problems of climate change.
Right?
And so all of those hexagonal shields that we saw in the
atmosphere in the Confederation episode that was keeping people
alive, even though climate change, that was all originally his
technology.
And so there's a statue of him. in the future.
And so that's why he agrees.
So the Agnes Borg Queen comes and explains that's the situation.
Because what's going to happen is she's going to find a compound
on Europa that is important.
Right.
I promise I won't do this too much.
But why is not Laris?
Who is this person?
Yes, and now, okay, so...
I'm like, is this Laris, what's going on?
No, it's not Lara.
So this character's called Talon.
And she is a supervisor.
And there's an episode called The Watch It.
We actually think that Guynan is the watcher, probably in 2022 or
2024, I think this is set.
But it turns out it's her.
And she is exactly like Gary 7 in, I want to say a Simon Earth.
Do you remember that weird thing?
The guy with the cat.
Yeah.
And so that's why, for instance, the transporter effect, her
transporter effect is, and I think we're about to see it.
It's those clouds in the doorway, that's from that episode.
So again, it's one of these things where Kurt's a nice touch.
Yes, I think so too. slightly silly.
That, I don't think it's ever exploded.
You know what it is?
They know, but she's going to be written out in three.
Well, we need to give her a part.
We need to give her something to do before we get rid of her.
All of Brady.
We have all of Brady and she's fantastic.
And she always has terrific chemistry with Patrick Stewart.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
A bit annoyed, you know, in series, season three.
A lot of things annoyed me, didn't they?
But that annoyed me where he was like, 0 yeah, we're having this
relationship now.
And then Dr. Bev comes along with his son and he's like, Laris
who?
Well, yeah, and again, I think that that's something that they
should perhaps have had more time for in the final episode is
reuniting them, given that this episode, that this series is so
much about getting that relationship going.
Isn't this beautiful?
Like, and the music, Jeff Russell's music.
This is possibly my, the 2nd version of this score is my favourite
title music.
Or, uh, yeah, for Kurtzman Tray.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
No, I mean, I still love the discovery theme with all of the
cellos and stuff, but this is so spectacular.
It's got sort of all the beauty of the series one, isn't it?
But it's got a bit of a pulse as well.
Yeah, they use, they do use quite a bit of Star Trek, the Next
Generation music in this, like the theme, and there's hints of the
1st contact music as well, which is what they eventually go with
for Star Trek, Picard 3. sort of looking back on Star Trek Picard
now it's over.
And I think sort of in 10 years time, it's going to feel like this
very strange anomaly, isn't it?
of like 2 seasons of attempting something new and then a massive
love in or basically TNG series 8.
Well, no, maybe a film, like a film sequel to Star Trek, the Next
Generation, I think.
Yeah, there's some of our films, you know.
Yeah, but it's not anything like, um, it's not anything like a TV
series, is it?
Because it's...
It doesn't usually when you say it's like Kursman Trek imagining
what the TNG cars would be like if they genuinely were
characters.
Yeah, yeah.
If they had a good film.
First contact.
That's a whole thing to suggest. is pretty good.
Yeah, it's fun.
It is fun.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I thought I was going to see that fabulous ball queen in
this.
Yes, no, she has already.
So there's an episode called Two of One, which is where her and
Agnes go off kind of together and they're sort of the same person
or they're sort of combined.
Um, and it has a musical number in it, which Agnes sings in a
beautiful red dress.
I had a lot of that's pretty awesome.
See, this is the opening titles to Star Trek series one and 2 to
Next Generation series one and 2 as we fly past past the planets
of the solar system.
That's absolutely recreating that.
Well, but with decent special effects.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But boy, that, that, um, shit down along the, I keep saying rocket
rocket, is it?
Well, I think the shuttle, isn't it?
Shuttle.
There we go.
I'm so 9050s.
And I did think, um, you know, I do think Brett Sparker can be a
bit overused in these things in multiple roles.
I thought he was rather good in this, you know, as they.
Yeah, yeah.
It's such a prick to that poorly unlikeable.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's fantastic.
And I do love that that Corey, who is sort of Soji, she was Soji
in series one.
I do really like how that scene where she deletes all his shit.
I think that's pretty awesome where she gets her revenge in the
library.
Oh, I did like this.
This here where they're talking about Agnes.
And he goes, of course, I don't trust her.
She's Borg and then she goes, well, actually, is she more your
friend?
Yeah.
And then that gets picked up at the end.
Remember, she says that she's come back because she needs a friend
you know.
So help me get my head around this because Obviously, at the
beginning of the series, the Borg appears on the ship.
That was always Agnes as a result of them going back in time and
doing all of this.
Yeah, which is why she just keeps her hat on.
So that she doesn't spoil surprise.
That might have muted the season. there, wouldn't it?
That's right.
This is where we're headed.
But it's because the Borg are sending a message and the message is
Edith Piaf singing nausea and regretory. and that's what gets
Picard to...
That was a great moment, wasn't it?
In the 1st episode.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that's pretty awesome.
Because he's French, you know, were pretty special.
Yeah.
I think episode 3 is really great as well.
Like, I love it when they turn up in the present day.
It's proper, you know, Star Trek 4.
I've only done that twice before.
I don't think anyone expected them to hang around in the present
day for like 6 or 7 episodes.
No, yeah.
But I'm glad they did.
I thought it was good.
Again, this is more like a film.
Do you know what I mean?
Like this is what this is a novel or an extended film.
Why does 7 of 9 have an enormous bloodstain on her show?
I can't remember.
Oh okay.
I think she's okay.
But the continuity is definitely earning his money.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. right.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
See, the other thing that's a set, you know, I think they've gone
to some fabulous songs. spicy building, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
But also, I mean, this is a set, but the exterior of the building
looks fantastic.
And I actually quite like this sort of crappy sequence with the
drones as well.
It's just about the only thing Rios gets to do this episode is fly
those drones.
And I did think, you know what?
Like, those drones go mad.
I looked like nomads.
So he attempts to kill Renee Picard with the sort of hand thing
the poison, doesn't he?
Yeah.
And then he sends the drones out.
And I thought, that's a pretty lame plan, you know, to take down
that shuttle.
With a drone.
It's not very climactive, though, is it?
No.
They should have planted a massive bomb or something, you know?
So her job, Talon's job, she's like Gary 7.
She's a supervisor, and we learn later that the travellers appoint
the supervisors.
So we, that's Will Wheaton's job is to give her a bit of back.
Wesley effectively sent Gary 7 into TOS.
Because, you know, time means nothing to them.
Exactly right.
Oh, I can't wait to talk about that, obviously.
So funny, isn't it?
Ah, poor old Rios.
See, these 2 are great together all the way through too, and the 2
of them in the present day.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But remember when, like, there's that fantastic scene where they
appear and then he plummets off that, like, in a comedy scene, then
he plummets off the balcony and is horribly injured and the whole
thing kind of gets sort of pulled up quite shockingly.
Are we, I don't want to ask this question, I'm going to, are we
not doing more Picard just because Patrick Stewart is a very old
man now?
And so, you know, like, he's like, I need to give TV a rest.
Like he had a lot to do in TNG series 3.
Yeah, sorry, TNG, Picard series, right?
Picard series, right?
I knackered by the end of that.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think so.
I think that he was in it for 3 series and you know, we were lucky
to have him.
And I think that whatever Kurtzman's plans had been for Star Trek
the 2nd that he hears that Patrick Stewart's willing to do some, he
just has to say, we'll just do that, you know, we have to do
that.
And that's a good instinct, I think.
Yeah, we just miss Brent Spinder's 1st attempt there to be an
obnoxious prat.
Yeah, yeah, he's really horrible.
It's fantastic, how horrible.
Poor woman does not know what she's done wrong, does she?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But yeah, it's really brutal.
Do we know much about this actress playing Renee Picard?
I don't really recognise her.
Uh, no, her name's Penelope Mitchell, but I don't know anything
about her.
So we've had to kind of keep her safe.
She's been worried about whether to do this and has been touch and
go whether she's going to do it.
And the big scene at the reception for those astronauts, you know
is to try and make sure that she's not diverted from doing this
because we know it's important, but at that time, we don't know
why.
Yeah, look, here he is being a massive prick again.
What a terrible...
I know, he's so great.
I never thought we'd make it.
Wow.
You are hopeless. she is going to say dumb things, to be fair.
It's a bit contrived, isn't it, to get him off?
Never mind.
Yeah.
But the thing is that he gets access to the astronauts, even
though they're in quarantine because he's a rich asshole who's
paid a lot of money towards this thing in order to stop it in
order to have the opportunity to stop it.
The twist in a minute where Talon is it, is posing as Renee, and
she's the one that gets poisoned instead of Renee, so she can go
up in the shuttle.
Well, I mean, this is my fault for not watching the rest of the
season because I'm like, oh, I didn't know she could do that.
That was that was more my shock rather than the fact that it
wasn't Renee.
Yeah, although I quite like how they just, you know, like it's
established that it's some kind of perceptual shield or hologram
or something like that, by the way, that like I don't think she's
shapeshifted into her or anything like that.
It was a good moment all the same.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
And I guess what they do here is they have a version of that
looked Tormay.
It's a book by...
Tracy Tormay.
Manheart of Fame.
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
I believe she also did the one at the hotel.
What's it called?
The Royale.
Yes, that's right.
All those TNG classets.
I think it's a he.
I think Tracy's a man's name bizarrely in that case.
Okay.
I feel like Kim Friedman.
I always think that's a woman and that's a man.
Okay, it's a man.
Yeah, yeah.
But you know what?
I've really got a tangible sense. of fun from this cast and all of
this going on in the 1st half of the episode.
I'm like, oh, you know, I was like, there's something here.
There's something really good here.
I'm not sure they've quite got it to how amazing it could be, but
there's definitely something in the air and we're just about to
close the book.
Well, I think too, like they kind of realise what they had in all
of Brady.
You know, she maybe she had a husband in that 1st in the 1st
season.
Like she was just, it was the 2 of them who looked after Picard in
the vineyard.
And look at that special effect.
It's so great.
It's like a real practical building with a fake hatch in the
roof.
Very thumbbirds, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. really fun, isn't it?
And look what I love.
All the drones going out across the beach there.
You'd never know you were watching Star Trek, would you?
So good.
So, futures, is it futures end?
What's the name of the one on the beach?
So that's, yeah, that's there, Star Trek 4, isn't it?
And I really like that as well.
I think that's really enjoyable.
Well, I mean, that has huge voyage home vibes as well to it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's a thing that works and they've only done it 3 times
now in 60 years or whatever, so that's okay.
And I like this too.
Because I don't remember this all that well, but I do remember
that, of course, she goes up.
And so when she storms out of here saying there's a crazy woman
who says she's my guardian angel from space, like I kind of knew
that this had to be talent.
Oh, see, I did it.
It's like we've made an agreement we've organised doing this.
I thought that that was pretty great.
So this is effectively the climax, isn't it?
is them stopping the drones.
Yeah, them stopping the drones and talons stopping, Adam.
Yeah.
It's kind of exciting.
I didn't think this one's terrible.
I thought I thought this had a good pace to it, you know.
And even though I couldn't, I couldn't figure out why, you know
stopping the launch was such a problem, it was still exciting.
Yeah.
Yes.
So, so here's what I think happens right?
I think there's a problem in that I don't think that we can really
really imagine a satisfying ending to this plot.
I can't, and clearly the writers of this show can't.
So the idea is that there's one big event that happens in 2024
that is the difference between spiralling into kind of fascism and
ecological disaster and the exciting socialist utopia of, you know
the federation.
Sliding doors moment, isn't it?
Yeah.
And so what is that going to be?
What is that decision?
And so when we learn that it's a dumb space thing, like she goes
to Europa, which is one of the moons of Jupiter, and discovers a
thing, a compound, and I just sort of think, oh, really?
Come on, you know, like, what are we to take away from that?
So how do we avoid the imminent sort of spiral into fascism that
appears to face us right now, even as we're sitting here?
But I do think the show sort of goes some way to answering it, but
I would I would have liked it to have perhaps put more effort into
that.
The thing is, the cards outfit.
The alternative timeline that we see is so extreme. isn't it?
It's fun.
I'm like, oh, how do we get from here to there?
That's, that's, you know, but here's what I think, right?
This version of Star Trek that we have now, um, we like, but the
alt-right hates because they hate diversity.
They hate, you know, gender representation.
It's too woke.
And so what we get to see is not the future if they prevail, but
it's the version of Star Trek that they would like.
This is what you wanted.
I was going to say, Nathan.
I'm the wokest man alive, you know, all for diversity.
Boy, boy, I love that alternative.
That was our action.
It was great.
Yeah, that's right.
It kind of was like sadist, wasn't it?
Yeah, yeah.
Where, where, they're just basically killing aliens and being sort
of like super evil and stuff.
God of gold to cut and that on the, on the mantlepiece.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Martoch.
I'm going to double a few more episodes there, if I'm honest.
It was pretty great.
I want that to be our prime timeline, you know.
No, but that's, I mean, that's the idea.
I think that that's those values embodied in Star Trek rather than
the woke values that Star Trek in fact embodies.
I love this too.
Gosh, let's give all of Brady a fantastic acting moment as well.
She's so good.
So brilliant.
I liked the bit when it was Renee and he said, look up.
Yeah, just before she turned.
I was I was so on board that that actually was, right?
Oh, she's dying.
She's not going to get to see space first, just to come up at the
very least.
Yeah, oh, that's nice too.
And, of course, it's one of the things that convinces him to
pursue the relationship with Laris later.
We're 19 minutes into this 48 minute episode.
That's the plot over and done with.
Well, yes, kind of.
So there's still some tidying up to do.
So here's an Adam song.
Yeah, yeah.
No, this is but this is Adam's song, you know, back in his place.
His daughter, his genetically engineered daughter has escaped him
after being basically kept prisoner, and she has discovered that
in fact, she's one of a long series of aborted experiments.
So experiments who grow up and then he has to kill them because
they fail.
And she escapes.
Did I see a folder that said Project Khan?
Yes.
Yeah.
So he is what leads to...
Who's this song?
Who's the song in Enterprise, Alton song or something?
There's a few different songs.
There's a different song in series one of Picard as well.
It's really nice.
Within this sort of...
Arax song. fresh sort of trek that they're trying to do, that
we're also, we're explaining where calm came from.
We're killing off the queue, technically.
We're explaining why Gary 7 can pop through his mirrors in TOS.
You know, we're we're having some fun with law as well.
I love this too.
Like there she is just completely wiping out all of his beloved
files.
Well, he had to have his downfall, didn't he?
Yeah, but at her hands, it had to be at her hands, I think.
So, like I'm not quite sure what happened here.
Like, it makes sense that his daughter looks like her looks like
Soji, because, of course, Soji's date is daughter, right?
So all of that makes sense.
But, and we do we see, do we see Soji in episode one?
I think we do.
I think episode one, there's Soji and Agnes, and they're meeting
the Deltons, like who are the incredibly hot people that Persis
Kambata plays in Star Trek, the motion picture, you know, the bald
woman.
The whole bald woman.
And so there's hot bald people, you know, and Agnes is being sort
of tragic and trashy and drunk and wondering about whether she's
ever going to, you know, meet anyone or whatever.
And Soji is there too.
So I think we see her very briefly in episode one.
But thereafter. nice.
It was a bit like Elmo, isn't it?
It is a character that, unfortunately, sort of had a fair role in
series one and then it's sort of incised from series two.
That's right.
Although the actor still gets a reasonable amount to do here in
these episodes.
And she's great as well.
Oh, hang on.
All conversation must go. because we're about to see the return.
Can I talk to you about this?
Because apparently all of the Kurtzman Treks were vying to get
Will Wheaton, right?
They all wanted to do Wesley Crusher, okay?
So I figured that this was going to be a big scene, you know, a
big moment because this Picard won out.
No, this is it's basically the spiritual successor to TNG.
So we're the one that are going to do Wesley Question.
Naturally.
Wheaton just walks on as if he's just walked wandered on the set
and said, well, can I do a scene, please?
He's not even bothering to ask. his own clothes.
Probably.
He hasn't even had a fucking shave.
No, that's right.
Well, that's what he looks like nowadays.
He has had his teeth dumb, though.
No, I never thought he was the best actor in the world in TNG, but
this was phoning it in and then some.
Well, but I think that he's a fairly genial person, like we see
him, we don't get to see this, but he does the Ready Room or
whatever it is, is at the Ready Room.
It's like the show where afterwards on the after show. for
Kurtzman Shrek, yes.
Yeah, yeah.
And like he's likeable.
I think there's something charming about him.
I just, I just couldn't believe how quiet a scene was.
Yeah.
And they just sort of go off together.
Yeah.
I think that's I don't know.
I was just expecting, and Kurtzman track is not afraid to shy away
from the big emotion.
Yeah.
And yeah, this was just like, well, Wesley wanders in, takes her
off, and they walk off.
Yeah, cleans up this plant thread, but it's nice to see him all
the same.
But it's the choice that's being presented to her is pretty
central to what Star Trek's about.
Do you know what I mean?
She gets to make the choice of a perfectly normal life.
It's like Achilles, you know, a long, normal life or a short life
with glory.
And the choice that she gets to make is either live a perfectly
normal life, which she's never had because she's just lived with
her father in that weird house.
Um, and... the choice to protect people and help people and, um
you know, boldly go, which is potentially dangerous.
And so that's obviously the choice that has to be made.
And I think too, we're interrogating why Picard makes that choice
as well this season is largely about that.
And I think the answer this season gives us is not very good
unfortunately, but yes, there is.
Just please, that Wesley Crushing's final moment in the track
franchise was not an excise scene from, what was it, 1st context?
Journeys end.
Oh, first.
I think, does it?
Interrection. up in he turns up in Nemesis.
There's a shot of him in nemesis at the wedding, I think.
Yeah, that would have been a very, I mean, this was, you know, a
little quiet, as I said, but it's not as quiet as that.
One shot at a party.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you know what?
I can imagine that that just had fanboys squeeing, you know, that
was...
Oh yeah.
I was pretty excited It's like a holy crap. didn't know this was
gonna happen.
And yeah, Jesus Christ, Nathan, Journey's end is such a tedious
episode.
I'm pleased that wasn't his last hour as well.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I'm quite surprised then that he didn't he didn't pop in for
series three.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
I think they got him out of the way. and in a single scene
though.
Yeah, that's right.
That's it he's dealt with.
Oh, here we go.
The hottest couple win Kurtzman Trick.
Seven and Raffi.
Adorable.
I actually really, really like this scene.
In fact, in fact, I was a little bit disappointed when coming back
from series 3, they didn't seem to be together, but I look at
that.
Here we go.
Oh, look at, look at Sam. not in that sort of thing, but that is
hot, you know.
Goodness.
But look at her smiling.
Look at her feeling it.
She's so good.
And it's still that character.
It's still our 7 from Voyager.
It's absolutely her years later.
It's so good.
It is, but it's a much more relaxed performance.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But that's, you know, like she's learned to use contractions.
You know, it's been 20 years or whatever.
She's, she's um, changed, but it's definitely the same character.
She can do the comedy look now, you know, which she just did to
Raffi just then.
I think she's terrific in this.
I do too.
And I really, in fact, you know what?
In the 1st couple of episodes of series three, I thought her
Picard and Riker in those 1st 2 episodes were brilliant together.
I'm going, oh, I'm seeing potential again.
So this, right, this does exactly what I think 90s trek does badly
all the time and this does it as well.
It shits me.
So, little baby Picard. we see, finds his mother hanging in the
conservatory because she has, um, some mental health issues and
ends up...
When do we learn?
by suicide during the run of the thing.
And he, the way he gets into there is, he finds that skeleton key
in behind that brick.
And that, you know, that kind of shatters his life when he sees
his mother who he loves and tries to protect and stuff and she's
hanging and he does it because he finds that key.
And so there we have Picard putting the key back where it was
because he's accepting that that's, you know, the future and
that's, do you know what I mean?
Because this is the house in 2024, He'll see the thing again in
the 24th century and blah, blah, blah, right?
And so then we have John DeLancey explaining that to us.
In case you haven't been paying attention. happened 30 seconds
ago.
In case you are not open to subtext in television, here he is
explaining.
A little bit cleaner, though.
Do you remember Times Arrow when Data's head's found in that
cave?
And at the end, Patrick Stewart is lumbered with a bit where he
goes, right, can you pay off Mrs. Carmichael's bill?
Can you move that head about 40 centimetres to the left?
And can you da da da?
Right, all the plots tied up?
Let's go.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That is a big crap.
Now I think this is really great.
And I think what's great about it is that these are 2 old men.
One of them is facing his mortality in the show, and that's Q, who
is going to die, and we just told that and it doesn't matter.
Do you know what I mean?
Like whatever, who cares?
But, you know, Patrick Stewart is old.
John DeLancey is old.
This is not about the characters, Nathan.
No, these 2 actors.
And the 2 of them have been together.
They've known each other for so long, you know, from the very 30
years.
Yeah.
And, and, and I just think, you know, this episode ends with the
Borg becoming part of the Federation and that's always what should
happen.
Our enemies should become our friends.
Our enemies should be people that we end up making connections
with and finding common ground with.
And this, they're doing it with Q. You know, Q was a trickster and
a goblin who did terrible things who caused, you know, people to
die in Qhu, people, members of the, of the crew.
You know, who caused proper harm, who, but who had this thing for
Picard.
And, and what I, what I like is that when they explain it, there's
no sort of space reasons, it's not, you know, even gods have their
favourites.
That's a great line.
It's a better explanation.
And look, look how gentle and beautiful John Delancey's face has
got over the years.
You know, there's something really terribly sweet about how both
of them are playing this.
And I don't know, oh, God.
I'm not going to compare anything, everything.
I'm favourably to the next series.
There was a poignancy to this, though.
I did not find in Series 3.
I think it's the fact that they both look so old, you know?
But yeah, I was not watching the characters in this scene.
I was watching the actors and their relationship that's developed
over 30 years and as payoff for the hard work that they've done.
I've seen to remember Patrick Stewart saying that John DeLarsi got
a round of applause after this scene.
Look at you touching his face.
Look at the way he touches his face.
I've got one last surprise. store.
If you didn't think you were getting back to the future.
Well, off we go.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, because he started all this nonsense.
I mean, this is a cute episode.
Why was he so angry?
Was he angry because he's dying in that 2nd action?
He slapped the car around the face, didn't he?
Yeah, but also it turns out, you know, like he wanted him to, you
know, he, this is him taking him back to his past to learn that
his past was okay in a way and to get him to make a better
decision about the future.
So he's pulling the same trick that he pulled in tapestry, isn't
he?
You know, like tapestry was all about him getting to accept what
he had been like as a young man and that actually perhaps he
hadn't been, you know, quite so worthless as he thought he was.
And so he gives him that back.
And um, and he doesn't even... of how far we've come then, that
tapestry was a single episode and now we'll play out over an
entire season.
Yeah, I mean, tapestry is a beautiful, incredible high concept
episode.
It's really terrific, one of the highlights of the show, I think.
I do love real staying here and choosing.
Do you know what?
I want a normal life.
I want to be with these people.
I've absolutely fallen ahead over here. really nice.
Again, it's so quiet all modern day television.
And I quite like that.
I'm like, okay, you know, it hasn't got to be bangs and whistles
and people sacrificing themselves and, you know, tears everywhere
and.
Well, I mean, part of the thing was that you felt when you came
back in episode one to find that he was the captain of the
Stargazer and that he was wearing a Starfleet uniform and stuff.
You kind of felt that you'd lost something, that that wasn't
really quite Rios. shitty ship and he was chomping on his cigar
and chatting to 5 versions of himself with different accents.
It was amazing.
Well, that was hard. super hard.
That scene where Raffi goes into the holodeck with all of the 5
Rioses.
The thing I said to you in a message and I was watching it, the
thing that irritated me about this was, I just wish he had just
had a normal life.
Instead, we go to the future and, you know, they've done these
incredible things that have changed the shape of humanity forever
and I'm like, okay.
Of course, but because I think that that's where they turn the
space solution where Renee finds a new compound on Europa to an
actual human solution to the problem.
And the solutions to the problem are these two.
Okay, so Teresa and Chris, raising Ricardo and then Ricardo
growing up up and using the compound that Renee discovers to solve
the climate crisis.
And so the world is fixed by people doing things like what Rios
and Teresa end up doing, that they end up spending their lives
working for the betterment of other people and raising a son who
will do the same thing.
And so I like that a lot.
Oh, this hard.
Look at the look on John Delancey's face.
I just, it just irritates me, you can't his reaction.
You cannot just be an ordinary person.
No, no, but that's, but, but that's, you know, it's aspirational.
Do you know what I mean?
They've got to be extraordinary.
Being extraordinary. giving your life, spending your life in the
service of other people. like that's exactly the choice that that
Core just got given.
It's the choice that Picard made when he took Starfleet as a
career.
That's what the show is about, is deciding to do that.
I think that's great.
Oh, I hope that... that picture.
So here we are now, back in the future, and we're having to tie up
everything that we left in episode one.
Yeah, which we can hardly remember because it was sort of 10 weeks
ago.
So we're on the Stargazer, which again is a bit less memorable.
It's actually funny watching this after seeing Picard series 3 and
looking at how well lit everything is and how colourful everyone's
uniforms are after the really kind of...
It really felt like we were back in TNG territory in Picard series
free, didn't it?
Yeah, no, except the way the way that everything was dramatically
underlit, you know, which is completely the opposite of the end.
The lights came on the bridge of the Enterprise B. I was like, oh
here we go.
It was flat studio lighting again.
We're back.
It is actually better than that.
It did seem like that, but it was better lighting than his Agnes
of course.
Of course, it was...
Yep, the carpet.
That line about the car. such a strange shot of her hair when the
helmet comes off, isn't it?
from sort of... sort of straight on like that.
It's very undramatic.
Yeah, yeah.
Given, you know, it's sort of the linchpin of the episode.
So Raffi's back, and then Agnes, who was on board the ship before
is now the Borg queen, so they were both on board originally.
Yeah, strange makeup as well.
Yeah, yeah, it is, isn't it?
Like, like the earlier makeup for the Boar Queen, that was
amazing.
Yeah, but that, that, that Borg queen, that woman, that wonderful
incredible woman, like she was superb, I think.
I think she absolutely gives, um, what's her face, a run for her
money?
don't think we ever sort of figured this is where Agnes was
heading after series one of...
Yeah, yeah.
And I think, you know, that the character is a little bit derailed
because, you know, she kills her boyfriend.
She kills.
That episode that we watch.
Remember, she vomited 3 times in the one episode.
She was forced to swallow that pill, do you remember, by the
section 31 woman.
She was treated horribly.
And yet the actress is so likeable.
Yeah, she really is.
She's sort of super charming.
But here she was a little bit drifty and loser-ish in the opening
scene and didn't have friends.
And so there's a sort of building towards this where it's the
event casual, casualty rate's going to kill everyone.
I don't know what the hell this is.
This is...
There's a nice swipply thing in space.
Yeah, that's right.
Swirly thing alert. territory now.
Just with a ton of ships going against it, you know?
So the thing that I don't understand, right, is that in Picard
series 3, Riker says in an episode that the Borg haven't contacted
us for over 10 years, but there isn't 10 years between this and
Picard series 3.
So, and they must have known, like they wrote that line knowing
that the Borg had been in the series too.
So I don't know what's going on there.
I meant to look it up on memory alpha.
Are they part of the Federation series?
Well, see, I don't understand that.
And I thought that that was a really good thing because like I
said, you know, we've had one Borg become part of the Federation.
We've had the Klingons become our allies.
Having the Borg work with us as well, is, you know, the sort of
humane thing.
You know, when we were talking about Scorpion, and I was talking
about the slow sort of degeneration of the Borg as a threat.
Well, this is the ultimate now. joining the Federation.
We're here to help.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They're now the good guys.
Yeah, but that's good.
But then they're back to being evil like immediately afterwards
next season because of course they have to be the villains in
Picard series 3.
Because effectively we're just doing the best of both worlds
again.
Yeah.
Well, not quite.
I mean, it isn't quite the best of both worlds, but like the Borg
is the big villain, that Star Trek, the Next Generation creates.
Not entirely sure what's going on here.
We've got a load of sort of ships in formation, a massive shield
and the wibbly thing in space.
I'm not sure what's going on, but it looks epic.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think that's the, I think that's the point.
And then here...
Did you hear what she just said?
The shield needs to be recalibrated.
We're definitely back in TNG territory.
Yeah.
Oh, sweetie.
Who's this man then?
So he's a stranger.
He's adorable and he's a Romulan truth ninja.
So that's all you need to know.
I think he's so cute He's so sweet.
I just, I don't think he's very memorable though.
Well, I, see, I liked, I've, he, I think it's a high point for me
in Star Trek, Picard series one.
And the reason is that you've got this character, this sort of
elfin Romulan Truth Ninja, who they just play for comedy.
Do you know what I mean?
They play it for comedy.
And I just think, but sort of sincerity ninja.
He, like, it's just played for laughs and he does it so well.
Like he's always baffled and everyone's kind of making fun of
him.
And the bit where Raffi hugs him after Picard dies in that final
episode is just so heartbreaking.
He's so, because he's just a kid.
He's this sort of vulnerable kid.
It's very sweet.
I'm glad they didn't kill him off.
The hell is going on here?
I don't know.
Where are we?
There's Andorians there.
There's an Andorian watching the thing.
Do they not trust us to sort of keep watching unless there is some
sort of escalated for it?
Yeah, I don't know.
Look, you know, it looks pretty great.
I'm happy that they're doing it, but I'm not quite sure what's
going on.
Maybe I was more sure when I 1st watched it and the rest of the
series was a more recent memory.
Oh, there you go.
We've done it.
Yeah, we saved the day.
That was the idea of mister.
So what's happening now?
I thought Wesley Crusher was going to pop back again, you know, and
be like, right, I'm going to sub this for you.
Well, we don't need the travellers.
We've got the Borg, we've got Agnes, and we've got this bizarre
thing.
So, like this is the, like, is it the same year as, I think it
might be last year.
So it's 2022.
Is it the same year that Star Trek Discovery has a big, you know
universe ending giant anomaly roaming around the quadrant
destroying planets?
I think that seems to be what we're doing in 2022.
Very strange.
You know, I just haven't had a flashback there, typical series one
finale, which I actually think it was really strong.
I like that last episode.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. big space battle with the huge flowers in
space.
With a giant devil tentacles, like it's hell opening up. weird as
fuck.
And you had wonderful scenes with card and data, saying goodbye.
It was sort of genuinely red.
Oh, no, wait, here's Gynan.
I'm back in the room.
Yeah, yeah.
So what I think is really funny is this is a bar that he's been
going to.
Uh, you know, that...
You never know, it's the picture of Rios on the wall.
I've never noticed the picture of Rios and Teresa on the wall
which is pretty great.
You've always been more clever than you clever than an observer.
It's brilliant.
There he is.
Oh, just, we should have seen the closet.
Signing and Picard together gives me all the fans.
And you know what?
The fact that this came about from him going on a chat show and
saying to her, look, I'm inviting you off because series two.
Of course.
You've got the writers going, oh, Jesus Christ.
We've got right now.
Surely you've got the writers going, holy shit, that's fantastic.
Let's do whatever we can.
And they do get someone else to play her in the past, obviously.
But so adorably.
The medical movement that they create is called the Mariposas, the
butterfly, and they've been using butterfly, you know, from the
short story, the sound of thunder, where someone treads on a
butterfly in the past and changes the present.
And so, you know, the way they say, you know, don't accidentally
change the present while you're in the past is, you know, don't
tread on any butterflies.
And so the medical movement is called the butterflies, which I
think is kind of adorable.
The line I did like was they were such good people.
I really like that.
Yeah.
Well, that's it.
And that's what that's what defeats the fascism, isn't it?
They're good people.
And I'm assuming I've watched it, but I'm assuming we've seen that
relationship build throughout the season between...
It's so good.
But you saw it in the episode that we did when we did
assimilation.
It was so funny.
She was so great.
His last breath was into a cigar.
Oh yeah, that's so cheesy.
Okay, this is all sort of like exposition plot tying up here, isn't
it?
I've been showing up, just hearing it all.
At least we get to see little Eleanor back.
Look at him.
He' so cute.
Yeah, I'm not sure who that is.
Sorry.
This is nice, though. is all nice.
Yeah, yeah.
And we did get to see the bar again in series 3 even if it was the
holodeck, although I think it was also in the final episode.
Oh, it's where they go to play cards.
Is that the bar where you have that fabulous showdown between
Riker and Picard and what's his name?
Sean?
And Shaw.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it's also the bar where the final scene happens where they're
all playing poker together and they're playing poker properly, not
in a sort of 90s TV way, but in a chilly, chilled, relaxed way.
I think that was the best episode of that last year, you know.
That was so well written episode. it was just them hanging
around.
Yeah, yeah.
Well that was the great thing about that whole season.
Like, I was expecting it to keep moving, but it's just them on the
Titan for episode after episode, you know, doing the sort of Star
Trek 2 thing with the evil ship.
Oh, an amazing team. rat air wharf.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, we're not getting really free.
No, we'll do it.
Yeah, series two.
So we're back to fix up our horrible mistake that we made in
episode one of not pursuing a relationship with Laris, and he is
going to pursue a relationship with Laris, which will get
referenced, so all of Brady will be back for one more scene.
So weird.
And then she's just forgotten. about it.
You know, I think the Writers of Series 3. were like, right.
I know we did this at the end of series two.
We kind of acknowledge they're in a relationship and the ball go
good now, but we don't want to do that anymore.
So let's just run.
Yeah, I think that's exactly it.
And again, that tag scene.
Do you know what I mean?
The tag scene happens at the end.
Oh, the cue scene.
Yeah, and it's kind of like, yes, we killed Q and it was all very
sad.
And just Brenda series 2 completely moved.
Kind of.
I did I did actually think that at the time it was kind of like
we're not being sufficiently respect for Lucieres too, but you can
absolutely understand.
Fad boys weren't in a right old tears.
They don't usually like these sort of inconsistencies.
No, no.
And like, I have to say that I found myself irritated by early
series 2, Picard, the fact that Picard and Guine and Meat for the
1st time in 2024 and they don't seem to know each other, even
though Times Arrow indicates that they'd actually met, you know
over a 100 years earlier.
But... a young woman in this as well.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, that's, I mean, that's, that's all right.
But, but it was pointed out that because the Confederation
happened, uh, that meant Times arrow never happened, so they
hadn't actually met.
This is a great shot pulling away. series ended here.
I don't think that would have been a terrible place to end it.
He's happy.
He's decided to be in love.
Yeah, you know.
Yeah, I think that's right.
And then there's the galaxy and a shooting star off we go.
That was a very nice finale for Picard, I thought.
Yeah, I think so too.
And I think that what they do when they come back is a different
show in all sorts of ways, but I think if you've got them, we're
not going to have those people forever.
I get it.
I do get it Yeah, you know, once you have the opportunity to bring
them all back, do it.
It's and it's...
No, I'm going to wait till we do three.
Can you see that credit there?
Lullaby number 2 by J.
Chataway.
Was it?
Yeah, yeah.
Like in the closing credits.
How about that?
He's still doing his wallpaper music, even in curse track.
No, he is the one.
He's the one whose music is the least wallpapery in 90s trek, I
think.
Oh, God, COVID-19 logistics.
A whole different world.
Look all these names.
I dread to think how much this cost to make, you know.
Yeah, yeah, but you know, that's all right.
I'm glad they're spending money on it.
They could spend money on much worse things.
Hey, kid.
Oh, well that was good.
Yeah, I thought that was fun.
It was it was good.
I don't know, it wasn't great.
No, I think we've sort of talked about, you know, not stopping and
starting and just how quiet the whole thing was.
But like I said, scene to scene, it seemed to work.
I was watching it.
It's only when I thought about it afterwards, I was like, yeah, as
a series finale, which effectively is what this is.
Yes, it's it's like a whisper.
Yeah.
I just have to think that they knew what they were going to do the
final year and so they wanted to give this version of the show an
ending a time to breathe sort of thing.
And so we basically lose Agnes early on, like in the previous
episode, then we lose Rios, you know.
No, like I think that's fun.
I thought that that series was pretty good.
You do realise something.
Now Picard is over and it's what, a total of 30 episodes?
Is that right?
So it's going to be probably the shortest run of all the...
Star Trek.
Yeah.
So, like, in terms of the percentage that we've done of the
overall series.
We've done a fair amount, so far.
I think we've still done more strange new worlds than as of today
in sort of a few weeks time, that'll be different, but we have
done 30% of all strange new worlds episodes.
Don't you think the 2nd that comes back on?
I'm not going to choose that series to push the button.
Oh, it's so exciting.
I'm really, really excited.
And particularly excited about the upcoming crossover as well
which is melting a lot of fanboy brains too.
Gosh, so much.
I want to see if they play the characters in that same sort of
heightened cartoony way.
Or if they bring it right down, you know, to Strange New Worlds
level, sort of naturally. doubt it. doubt it.
Look at what Strachue Worlds is capable of last year.
We, you know, there's 3 solid fantastic comedy episodes that work
really well, even though Star Trek comedy tends to be kind of
terrible with the exception of Deep Space 9.
So I, you know, I think it's going to be great.
I think it's going to be superb.
Before we out this episode and choose the next.
Because this is the finale of season two, how do you think it
fares as a whole?
Is this one of Star Trek's better seasons?
No, like, I guess Star Trek comes back with Discovery.
Is Picard the 1st spinoff that weekend?
It's like the Deep Space 9 of...
Yeah, it's the only live action spinoff and it does do something
quite different.
It's not spaceship.
It's not a spaceship-based show.
It's said in the world of the Federation.
It does basically one year of that and then one year of Star Trek
a voyage home.
I think you're right.
What you said before is we'll look back on this and this will be a
strange piece of television.
But like, I think there's too much to do, so...
Like, I don't think you can dismiss Star Trek Picard.
I think the 1st series is bold.
The 2nd series, from what I've seen of it is very fun and the 3rd
series is essentially what everyone wanted all along.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I think it's darker and stranger than what everyone wanted
all along, but I do think it is pretty great that 3rd series.
What's fascinating. is the only reason this exists is because
Patrick Stewart was interested in doing it.
And I think it's the only occasion of an actor basically having
the chops to be able to have a whole series created just because
he said, you know what?
I quite fancy doing this again.
But the story that he tells is that he wasn't immediately on board
and had to be convinced.
Okay.
And when they said what they wanted to do.
He wanted to do something a bit more political.
So there's that thing in series one where Earth has become
isolationist and Picard is in conflict with Starfleet because he
thinks we should be helping Romulan refugees, but after space 9
11.
They've decided that they don't want to do that anymore.
So that's political and that's interesting.
And I think that that's what brings him back.
And then, of course, series 2 is more political.
Had he said no?
Yeah, that wouldn't have happened.
Yeah, yeah.
And then we wouldn't have had Rios and we wouldn't have had Agnes
and we wouldn't have had Raffi and 7 of 9 wouldn't have had this
glorious reinvention.
We wouldn't have had Captain Shaw.
Oh, he's amazing.
I do think this is a very flawed series as a whole. and not
entirely what I want from Star Trek.
But for all those innovations, I'm really pleased it exists.
Yeah, I think it's fun to watch.
It's Star Trek.
It's fun to watch.
There's spaceships and shit.
That what I'm here for.
And it has something positive to say as well, which I think is
pretty good and not what Star Trek always does. 7 of 9 in the
captain's chair.
What more do you need?
All right, it's the end of the episode and it is, as always, time
for us to work out what we're going to watch next.
It's Joe's turn on the randomiser.
So Joe, tell us what we're going to be watching.
Been a long road, getting from there to here.
I can't wait.
We're going to recovering Star Trek Enterprise.
And it's purely for the reason that I have gleamed an enormous
amount of trivia about Enterprise this week.
Ooh, there is a fantastic video on YouTube and I suggest everyone
goes out there and watches it, where in 2014, They brought
together the entire enterprise cast and Branan Bragger, and it was
their chance to ask him what the fuck he was thinking.
What happened?
Why were we cancelled?
And it's over an hour long and they address everything that we've
talked about before and Brana gives context.
He explains where the studio got involved, like Scott Bakula, who
is quite, he's surprisingly positive about like the latter half of
the run, and he goes, and I do think a lot of people consider the
latter half hour run to be quite good.
He goes, but our 1st year, there was just so many problems. he
goes, and Brannan, what the hell happened with that finale?
And they talk about that quite a bit.
It's the best interview I've seen.
Like, I've watched a lot of convention panels and things like that
but that's just a lot of actors vamping up and playing in the
audience and all of this.
This is serious critique about the show from the people making the
show.
Wow.
So let's see what we're going to watch.
Okay, awesome.
All right.
Off you go.
Okay, so your random Star Trek Enterprise episode is Daedalus
season four, episode 10.
I think that might be okay.
It's like a series 41.
So it is part of that ongoing serialised plot that they have in
series 4, but it is a one-off episode about transporter technology
but it's also about the family and it's about, you know, it's got
various soap plots going on, including with Tapol and stuff.
Look at my face.
I'm convinced.
Come on, I'm going to roll it again.
Although I would really, I mean, I mean, now I've said that about
2 halves of the show.
I'm not sure which half I want to talk about more.
The travelling half or the good half.
I didn't make it very far into series four, but one of the things
that I did like about it was the serialised approach to
storytelling.
It wasn't just that there were these 3 part stories or four-part
stories.
It was actually an ongoing plot that had one big thing happening
in it that would change every few episodes.
I liked that.
And Bragger does say that Manikoto comes in in series 4 and
effectively gives us a show.
It should have been all along.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
But you'll be surprised how often their hands were tied when we
talk about it.
Okay, I'm going to press it again.
All right?
Your random Star Trek Enterprise episode is series 3, episode 10
similitude.
Now, I do know what that episode is.
So what's that?
They're in the Delphic expanse.
It is a standalone episode.
It's the one where there's a 2nd trip. that they have to grow for
some reason.
And it's a bit like Chubix and he ends up falling in love with
Tapal and it's it's all a bit rushy and now I'm going to press it
again.
Yeah, okay.
It's quite a popular episode, I think, that one.
Okay.
Your random Star Trek Enterprise episode is season four, episode
two, Stormfront part two.
Yeah, we'd have to watch Stormfront part one.
Okay, fair enough.
Season four, episode eight.
Awakening.
Oh, do you know that is?
No, not a clue.
I'm gonna press it one more time.
Yeah, I happen to know that this is a Vulcan one.
I happen to know that just for no particular reason that this is a
Vulcan one.
One of my least, you know, my most distasteful things about
enterprises, their treatment of the Vulcans.
How racist they are towards Vulcans and how racist their Vulcans
are.
Oh, my God, what's this?
No, this is the one we've got to do.
It's seasonal one.
Episode 5 unexpected.
It's the episode where Trip falls pregnant.
Oh, no.
Oh, come on.
This is enterprising.
We have to do it.
Failure mode.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
This will make people realise that a night in Sick Bay is better
not only than cogenitor, but than unexpected.
Is it your favourite episode we've done so far?
En surprise.
Yeah, it's up there.
I think it's pretty crazy. because you're insane.
Oh, wait.
They talk about...
Oh, good, okay. interview.
And his feelings will you say how great it is?
He goes, he goes, it was absurd, he goes, but I did like the fact
that, you know, the captain and the doctor got to hang out
together and have some fun together, you know.
And then back in it goes, I think the fans hated that episode. and
yeah, Billings he goes, what do the fans know?
Yes, there you go.
He's a man after my own heart.
Wow.
Let's see how Bragger and Rick Berman managed to write a man
pregnant.
Yeah, it's going to be awful. can't wait.
Oh, Joy.
Yeah, that's a good show.
Oh my god.
Is it going to be sort of super offensive to women as well?
Does he crave ice cream and shit?
like ice cream and pickles.
Does he eat ice cream and pickles because he's pregnant?
What did Gemma say about this one?
Oh, God.
He's the person who gave Wolf in the fold 3 out of 4 stars.
Oh, you never let that one go.
Oh my god.
He did give him the calls.
Oh, Mark.
Yeah, well, it's great, but Jesus Christ.
Wolf in the Folds barely a functional piece of television.
Here we go.
Right.
Damn.
They do talk about they talk about it in that interview as well.
He's like, we genuinely, we really wanted to say the 1st series
all on earth with this crew assembling over a year.
It's so boring though.
But the serialising thing that Koto does is basically that, isn't
it?
You know, they come back from that trip to the expanse and then we
get that episode, which is like family.
I can't remember what it's called.
Yeah, which is good.
Um, you know, and then they go out again and like interesting
things.
Like, I think I kind of liked that setup, that version of this.
This is all I need to say to you, is this line of this...
Not long after the trip, not long after trip returns to the
Enterprise, and the Zyrillians, with a big edge. head on their way
trip notices that he's growing nipples.
Oh, no.
Oh no.
Don't you find it makes your boobs firm up?
You get that line?
Frequently.
Jesus Christ.
Oh God.
Oh, amazing.
Yeah, that's just going to be fucking dreadful, isn't it?
One day, we'll find it, the Enterprise Classic, but...
We haven't yet.
No, no.
So Star Trek Legacy, right?
With Raffi and and 7.
Yeah. and little Jack Crusher as their special ops guy or whatever
their advisor.
And... and Elnor.
Well, has it been green there?
No, I'm just planning it in my head.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, it'd be great.
And how about this?
Something happens that resurrects sure from the dead just like
happens happened to shacks in lower decks, and no one knows why
but he's just back to life again.
Because he's so great.
I was so disappointed they killed him.
Obviously, they were going to, but holy shit, that was so superb
and that was such a great before.
You could have had real scenera as well, you know.
Just find their way for him to come back to the future.
Oh, come on. he's so good So pretty, isn't he?
He's so good.
But yeah, nope.
But I'm definitely on board for...
Well, that's a massive fan. campaign for legacies, isn't it?
I think it got enough of a response for them to have discussions.
Well, think about how, I mean, they must have been considering
strange new worlds.
Do you know what I mean?
With the cast that they assembled for series 2.
Yeah.
Um, I don't think you've seen all of that trailer, that strangely
world's trailer, because when you said, uh, are they going to play
a vegan cartoon, you did see the end of it where Picard goes, uh
leave log and prosper, Mr. Boimler, and Boimler goes, uh, you, like
live, uh, thing, like, he just can't, like, he gets, like
ridiculously tongue tied in response.
You have to watch it.
It's the end of the trailer.
Like, it's, like, tawny nuisance comes in, goes, surprise, here we
are.
And then at the end, it's livelong and prosper, Mr. Boemler, and
Boemler just absolutely flubs his line on the, like he can't even
speak because it's Spock.
Oh, I can't wait for that episode.
It's...
But you have to watch the trailer.
He's really funny.
Like, he absolutely sells it as boemire.
And I think they'll do a big.
How, like, don't bar into that season is that episode going to
be?
Do we know?
Who knows?
We don't know.
Hang on, let me see if I can see it now.
Yeah, slow.
Oh, it's so exciting.
It's like 2 weeks.
So great, that show.
I'll try and watch that finale before then.
Oh, here we go.
Yeah, you should.
Skip to the end, dear.
There's a cliffhanger.
You also live and...
Yeah, yeah, it's so great.
He just fucks it up completely.
It's so boiler.
It's just absolutely him.
His hair is even slightly purple.
Oh, the special effects look amazing.
Yeah, it doesn't look great.
And stuff in the present day on earth as well.
Or something?
So season 2 has 10 episodes.
Do you think there's going to be people crying out for more live
action lower decks though after this?
No, it really works well.
I've heard rumours that that episode's partly animated.
Oh, I hope so.
I hope so.
Oh, half and half.
I'll be all over that shit.
Great.
So if we saw, like, um, if we saw, like, maybe we see Rutherford
and Tandy at the beginning and then those 2 go over to the
Enterprise and their live action, but then we get to see the
animated version of the Enterprise crew at the end of the episode
because, of course.
Because, like, people are kind of going, oh, that's not Canon, but
then if it's in Strangely Wells and it's Canon, because...
I dare them to do it like TAS animation.
With the face like that.
Don't you remember?
Do you remember when, like, like, one of them is looking at a
picture of Spock and Kirk on their, on their pad in, in lower
decks, and it is just animated Spock and Kirk from the animated
series?
Like, it's not them.
And, like, looking like the character sort of thing.
It just them from the animated series.
I could watch that through again as well, you know?
Oh, it's great.
It's so good It's probably the best Kursman series.
Stranger Worlds is great.
Discovery is ambitious and looks incredible.
But just love it. in terms of just pure entertainment.
Yeah, yeah.
And it's great Star Trek as well.
It's proper.
The one with the search.
It's just so pretty.
That's so great, isn't it?
Mathematically perfect redemption.
It's so...
Genuinely do it in something completely original. and new, yeah.