WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 23:05:14

1
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Hey, Joe. Hi.

2
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So, we are back on Deep Space 9, and this is a big deal, I think.

3
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It's like a massive major arc 2 parter right in the middle of your favourite season of Star Trek, which is season 5 of Deep Space Nine.

4
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Yeah, I do, I think there is an argument to be made with D Space 9 with every successive season, it got better and better.

5
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But my personal favourite season is series 5 because I think this is the point where they absolutely ace fantastic standalone episodes and fantastic arc episodes. 6 and 7.

6
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It's so arc-based that the standalone sort of fall to the wayside a little bit, whereas they get the balance just right here.

7
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Yeah, I mean, I'm kind of like those things, like the beginning of 6 has like 6 parts or something, 6 or 7 weeks where we're not on the station.

8
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Dominion's in charge of it.

9
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And I think different things happen every week.

10
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Like, I think they get a good balance between serialised and and they do the incredible thing of changing the status quo of the show, which is something that, you know, neither of the 2 previous Star Trek series would ever have considered.

11
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I have to say that I really did enjoy this.

12
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And it's not normally what I look for in Star Trek, but it was really terrifically enjoyable.

13
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And I thought maybe part 2 was stronger than part one.

14
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I thought that this time round as well, and I've always gone the other way, thinking in pagetry shadow was the better of the two.

15
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I think this is really well paced in that it's a lot of setup in part one.

16
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And then it's just a bit relentless in part two, isn't it?

17
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Yeah.

18
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

19
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And it's it's just sort of properly fun.

20
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And there was a couple of lines of dialogue throughout the thing that had me laughing out loud.

21
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Like they do funny jokes in Deep Space Night, but 90 Star Trek doesn't normally do clever dialogue, I think, and there were some really, really clever lines that I had to pay watching these.

22
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Yeah, yeah.

23
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Well, my favourite being, excuse me, gentlemen.

24
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Could you point me in the direction of the wormhole?

25
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That wasn't even my favourite.

26
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I think Cisco has a really terrific line.

27
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I you know, I just think the whole thing is pretty well judged and just terribly entertaining.

28
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And I do remember what it felt like at the time.

29
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You know, that 1st big 2 part of it had Tain in it that introduced him, like, and that being a massive deal.

30
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And then this following it up as well.

31
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Like I just kind of remember what that felt like at the time.

32
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What this is doing.

33
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This 2 part, and a lot of DS9 sort of big hissing episodes do is it's paying off stuff from the past while setting up stuff for the future.

34
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So the whole show's in flux in this two-parter.

35
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And I really like that.

36
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Yeah, you're right.

37
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We're paying off tane.

38
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We're dealing with the wharf Garak relationship, which has been very fracturous to this point, but can't remain so because basically Garak's about to join the crew and we can't have wolves sitting there scowling in the corner of the room. you know every 5 minutes.

39
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And then this is essentially a massive prelude for a call to arms where like Cisco's going, you know, we've pushed back war for today and we're kind of thinking, well, you know, we've seen TNG.

40
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They're never going to go to war.

41
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Like, they always suggest that we're just on the brink of it, and then, of course, that's exactly where we go at the end of the season.

42
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Yeah, it is pretty incredible.

43
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And I think you're right about Deep Space 9 getting better season by season and it is that sort of weird idea that is promised by series one that it's an outpost in a distant corner of the galaxy that's not at all important.

44
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And that's kind of the story that the opening titles are telling as well.

45
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Like it's deserted and distant.

46
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But look what they've done with. that.

47
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Look what they've done with that because in the 2nd episode, Gowron goes, 5 years ago, nobody ever heard of Big Space 9.

48
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Now all our hopes rest here.

49
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Yeah.

50
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Yeah.

51
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Well, I mean, that's the great thing about it is that they kind of go, actually, let's do a thing that Star Trek never did, which is change the status quo of the quadrant, I guess we're calling it now, during the run of it, and actually make the show very largely about that.

52
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And that's really fun and interesting because you can do things that would have been ruled out in previous Star Trek, I think.

53
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And so here we have, you know, the beginning of a massive invasion, and the consequences of that is something that we're going to live with for ages.

54
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The last comparable thing we did, I think, was Scorpion part one where it looked like some huge change was going to take place in the premise of the show.

55
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And then it lasted a couple of episodes and we went back to sort of the same old nonsense every week.

56
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So this is pretty fun, I think.

57
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The one thing, obviously, we're talking about the big sweeping changes in the series and all the politics that are going on.

58
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The one thing we haven't mentioned is the characters.

59
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And if you will, I have a small prepared statement here, I did this the last time we did a big Dominion 2 parter, just to talk about why I thought the Dominion War was so good, but I really want to focus on because I think I remember reading a review of part one in Purgatory Shadow, where someone compared it unfavourably to Babylon 5, saying, oh, this is just like a Babylon 5, 2 parter, but, you know, just loads of character stuff, and not as exciting..

60
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Whereas I think the characters are absolute, the biggest strength of DS9.

61
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That's my biggest in is my biggest draw. the reason why I keep watching.

62
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So if I, if I may, go on.

63
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This does go on a bit.

64
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So, yeah, you want to cut me off.

65
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It's fine.

66
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So what I've put here is it's the characters that make Dig Space 9 shine. relationships that add richness, personality and personal stakes to all the politicking.

67
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Having a stationary setting means we have a series with consequences, but also relationships with form, evolve, surprise, and delight.

68
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There are funny warm, deep friendships.

69
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There are love stories that are mature and fractuous and even tragic, ultimately.

70
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And there's long-standing adversaries built on years of hate.

71
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There's families everywhere.

72
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You've got the O'Briens, you've got Cisco, you've got Cork, Rom, and Nog, but you've also got the family that's built during the show on the station.

73
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This is a show all about wastes and strays from all corners of the alpha quadrant ending up in a remote outpost together and learning to live with each other's differences.

74
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And it's how those characters learn to support each other while staying true to who they are, that make this the best and most dysfunctional family in the Star Trek universe.

75
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And then I just very quickly knocked off some pairings.

76
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Okay, so just think about these pairings as I knock them off very quickly.

77
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O'Brien and Bashir, Bashir and Garak, Garak and Odo, Odo and Quark, Quark and Kira, Kira and Dax, Dax and Worf, Worf and Cisco, Cisco and Jake, Jake and Nog, Nog and Rom, Rom and Lisa, like all of those relationships bear massive fruit.

78
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And then you've got like a wealth of secondary characters as well that are just brilliant no matter who they're paired with.

79
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Thai win, Ducart, Weiune, Demar, Gowron, Martoc, Vic Fontaine, Garak.

80
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Like, it's the characters that absolutely define this show.

81
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And I feel like they brought in the absolute best talent.

82
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They can find these sort of brilliant theatrical actors that can bring these characters alive, just a bit above naturalism with a lot of personality.

83
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And this is why I tune in.

84
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I just love the characters on this show and I think this two-parter exemplifies why the characters are so good.

85
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Yeah, you see that trend starting with Pillar in Star Trek, the Next Generation, where it's kind of, if it's not about our characters, it's not a thing, and they have a rule where someone whose name appears in the opening titles has to be in literally every scene of Star Trek, the Next Generation, pretty much.

86
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Here, though, what they kind of do is they're able to lean into that even more because it stops being a procedural.

87
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It's not a show about space problems at all.

88
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It is a show about this place where these people live and it's much, much more like a soap opera.

89
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I think, than any other Star Trek.

90
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And that is in no way a criticism because I think soap operas are pretty great.

91
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And certainly a soap opera that has a lot of money and a lot of thought and good writers and stuff can be a very good piece of television.

92
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So here there's all kinds of preposterous soap opera conceits, like, you know.

93
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Yeah, yeah, someone's been replaced by their look-alike on the station.

94
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I mean you could...

95
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That is literally step from Dallas, hasn't it?

96
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That's exactly it.

97
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Someone, it turns out is someone's secret father.

98
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Someone had a daughter who he was hiding and now is, you know, being looked after by his mortal enemy and stuff.

99
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The villain of the show's daughter is trying to have it off with his worst enemy.

100
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

101
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All of that stuff is just classic soap and we care about it because we really like those characters and the stakes are kind of, you know, important and they get involved in sort of fabulous space things which attracts us as well.

102
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So I think we get the best of both worlds.

103
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But you know, like the, the, I promise you, we'll go in in a 2nd because we've got 2 hours to talk about, but the massive strength of that.

104
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And I think some people were saying this as a weakness, is that because it's not a procedure, everybody, because it is a soap opera, it means then you get episodes like bar association, which is Rome, like, cool, having a union against Quark, and it really, it's a really dramatic and funny episode, or you get something like, um, It's only a paper moon, which is a Vic Fontaine and Nog, which is one of the most touching episodes of Star Trek, or something like looking for a palmark in all the wrong places where everyone's just trying to fuck each other that week, you know. and comedy and shoes.

105
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I think those episodes are fantastic and they're unique.

106
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Yeah, yeah.

107
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Look, I mean, sometimes a Star Trek will kind of go off concept a bit to do something like that.

108
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I mean, think about lower decks or data's day in Star Trek, the Next Generation.

109
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Night in Sick Bay.

110
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And I always appreciate those because I think it's actually quite nice to have an episode that isn't just about solving a space problem where we do something different.

111
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And here it's an entire show made of those things.

112
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And I think too, the other thing is the difference between this and Babylon 5 is that the writers here are discovering things about their characters and deciding to take them in different directions.

113
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And so, for instance, this wasn't part of a master plan that included a big war with the Klingons in series 4.

114
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It's just that they got wharf in and then had to do something with him and so decided to do that before the war.

115
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And then that gets taken at the end of the season and the beginning of this season and actually becomes, it turns out, part of the Dominion war, kind of in retrospect.

116
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And so we get all of this stuff where they're discovering things about the characters and learning what the actors are good at and writing to that.

117
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And I think that that's what we get, for instance, in Battlestar Galactica.

118
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And just in the best kind of television, I think, because televisions are weird, collaborative medium.

119
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It's vulnerable to things that are happening outside the world of the show.

120
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Love that, don't you?

121
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Yes, absolutely.

122
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When the real world hits the show and forces them to be creative in another direction.

123
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That's right.

124
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Terry's not coming back next year. you know.

125
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And so they have to do something about it.

126
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And they're doing that all the time on this show and I think it's really, really great.

127
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It shows in the way the show develops and that's what's interesting about it.

128
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They don't just start with a premise and churn out adventures in this particular setting.

129
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They do something quite different.

130
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And I think that that's what makes the show so special.

131
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And what's astonishing is when you then look back after series 7, most of this improvisation looks deliberate.

132
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Occasionally, it's a little bit awkward, but as a body of work, it looks like a story that was pre-planner.

133
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We know they're just making this shit up.

134
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

135
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Like, you can't, or it sort of turns up being in charge of whatever passes for Cardassia, you know, during this part of the show, and you can see the gears.

136
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Do you know what I mean?

137
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You can see kind of behind the scenes what's going on.

138
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But all of that's fun and that's also part of how a soap opera works too, I think.

139
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He's just had a, like, a whole season where he's defected from Cardassia and he's just going round in a Klingon ship.

140
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You know, I'm saying, I'm going to bring down the marquee and all on my own.

141
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And you're like, okay, they're done. sure what to do with him at this point.

142
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And then they've gone right.

143
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Actually, he's going to make secret negotiations with the Dominion, and then he's going to usurp the throne and be the head of Cardassia again, you know.

144
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And we're...

145
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We love him.

146
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So we love it when he does that.

147
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

148
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We probably should watch this thing, you know.

149
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I think we should let's go in.

150
00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:02.460
So I will count us in.

151
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Five, four, three, two, one and we're off.

152
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In memory of Derek golf.

153
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Yeah, I didn't look that up.

154
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I don't know who that is, I'm afraid.

155
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I think it was somebody on the production team.

156
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Read, but I didn't quite see who it was.

157
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Ah, so now Odo is rearranging his quarters because for a period, he's been a solid.

158
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That was his punishment at the end of series four, but now he's, you remember that fabulous scene where it becomes the bird on the promenade.

159
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The little baby changeling, gave him his regenerative powers back.

160
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It was a totally cod explanation, but it was a nice moment.

161
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So now he doesn't need a bed anymore, basically.

162
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Yeah, yeah.

163
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And he's got that jungle gym that he kind of wraps himself around in and stuff like that.

164
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Yes, and this is kind of a funny scene because in fact, what this episode does is it just checks in with all of the characters and it's like it's kind of nice.

165
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Look at this.

166
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This is purely about their relationship.

167
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So we spend a little bit of time.

168
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Odo's kind of embarrassed because he was going to be humanoid, which meant he was going to have to like have sex with people or something.

169
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Do you know what I mean?

170
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Or would have to have a sort of normal relationship rather than a sort of squishy gelatinous relationship?

171
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And so it's just about that, but it also gives these 2 a chance to act opposite one another.

172
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But even this, like they improvise this completely, this relationship because, but they never let you forget it.

173
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So here he's a bit embarrassing.

174
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She's going, you know, give women a chance.

175
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You might enjoy it.

176
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You know, keep reading the book and he's really embarrassed because he's in love with her.

177
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We know that at this point And then Children of Time hits and she finds out about that, then call her arms hits and she says, look, let's put this all aside and just focus on the war.

178
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And then his way hits and, well, shit hits the fan then.

179
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And I think too, we are going to get just a little bit of stuff about the recent pregnancy.

180
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And that was a conversation that I thought was really genuinely funny.

181
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So again, we're just checking in on this sort of recent preposterous soap opera development.

182
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You know, the thing that they came up with to deal with.

183
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The fact that Nana was actually pregnant.

184
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I was just shocked that they made a far joke.

185
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It's probably gas.

186
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But I just think I think it's really fun.

187
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I think that it's super adorable.

188
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It's probably gas.

189
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Well, and a lot of people said that was that damaged her character a bit, having her moving in with the O'Briens and have the baby. loved all that stuff.

190
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Yeah, so we talked about that because we did look in with Palmark in all the wrong places and that happens kind of in the middle of that.

191
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Um, but doesn't she, oh, O'Brien will come in and that's when that part of the conversation happens, which I just think is adorably clever.

192
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Like, he had a way.

193
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So this is New Zealand.

194
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This is the 3rd ZR that we've had, and this is the one we'll stay with for 6 episodes.

195
00:17:07.859 --> 00:17:10.319
Can I tell you something really funny about that, though?

196
00:17:10.380 --> 00:17:11.819
This is Melanie Smith, right?

197
00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:15.059
was like, okay, so this is like the 3rd cigar we've had.

198
00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:22.019
He goes, it goes, and I really wish I'd stuck to my guns because I kept saying to them, well, look, let's just recast her in every episode.

199
00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:28.380
Just to remind people of the artifice that we're making a TV show and no one would go with it.

200
00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:29.700
No, we found a good actress now.

201
00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:37.440
We're going with it Yes, I think maybe that would have been taking it a bit far, although I am broadly supportive of the principle.

202
00:17:37.500 --> 00:17:41.640
I think she's kind of, I don't really remember the other two.

203
00:17:41.700 --> 00:17:50.759
I think it's the 1st one is in the episode where she turns up in and then there's a, yeah, and there's a 2nd one who does like maybe 2 episodes, 2 or three.

204
00:17:50.819 --> 00:17:57.599
It was the one where that establishes her relationship with Garrett because she's off to the Kardashian Saunders in the Holla Suites and Garrett's.

205
00:17:57.660 --> 00:18:01.799
She invites him along and he thinks that she's going to kill him because she's going to cut storm.

206
00:18:01.859 --> 00:18:09.779
And in fact, no, she just wants a friend and then you get a scene where Kira comes along, shuts him against the wall and says, if you hurt her, I'll kill you, all right?

207
00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:24.180
And so they decide that I think they're probably working even at this point, aren't they working towards having her die in the opening episodes of series 6?

208
00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:31.140
And so they're giving us more of her and trying to make her more likeable so that that lands when it eventually happens.

209
00:18:31.380 --> 00:18:37.980
Like, it's sad, but we were never going to have Garak having a gay relationship on this show.

210
00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:41.519
Like and he's totally coded as gay when he's introduced.

211
00:18:41.579 --> 00:18:43.019
He's campus hell.

212
00:18:43.079 --> 00:18:53.819
He's coming onto Bashir, you know, and I still think he plays it that way, and I do like his relationship with Zel, because he's a little bit awkward and tentative about it, and there's an age gap as well.

213
00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:55.500
Like the whole thing is a bit awkward.

214
00:18:55.559 --> 00:18:57.180
But there is a connection there.

215
00:18:57.240 --> 00:18:58.980
Yeah, yeah.

216
00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:06.180
I have to say that I really like the fact that Julian isn't fooled by any of Garak's crap.

217
00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:10.859
So Garak has said, you know, the message that we received.

218
00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:23.880
So all of the Romulans, like heaps of Romulans and Cardassians go into the, uh, into the Gamma Quadrant in probable cause, is that?

219
00:19:23.940 --> 00:19:25.559
Improbable causing the dire's cost.

220
00:19:25.619 --> 00:19:27.960
Yeah. a big fleet goes off to the Dominion planet.

221
00:19:28.019 --> 00:19:32.460
They try and bomb the planet and in fact, one of the Romulans on the ship is a founder.

222
00:19:32.519 --> 00:19:41.039
They set the whole thing up, the Gemma Dark come along, surround them, and blast the fleet to ship, and Tain's among them, is that right?

223
00:19:41.099 --> 00:19:42.420
Yeah, so we think he's dead.

224
00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:43.200
Yeah.

225
00:19:43.259 --> 00:19:49.740
And so this is a message in Cardassian, which is actually from Tain, but when Garak receives it.

226
00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:58.859
He lies, but because Julian knows him so well, you know, he's waiting for him in the runabout that he's trying to steal, which I think again is pretty good.

227
00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:12.000
And again, all of these scenes, we've had what, we've had 3 scenes now and they've all just been about the relationships between the characters, just checking in on everyone, but we have kind of progressed the plot as well.

228
00:20:12.059 --> 00:20:13.619
The plot is moving, yeah.

229
00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:14.940
I like the way Garak says.

230
00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:20.579
And if Captain Cisco wants any more help. deciphering anymore, Cardassian laundry lists, let him know I'm available.

231
00:20:21.059 --> 00:20:23.700
It's just like not for a 2nd.

232
00:20:23.819 --> 00:20:25.500
Do you believe that he's been telling the truth?

233
00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:31.859
You know, it should have been a big clue, actually, that Bashir was a changeloom because he's not usually this savvy, is he?

234
00:20:32.039 --> 00:20:33.660
That's right.

235
00:20:33.720 --> 00:20:37.440
Well, he's not a changing at the moment as far as we know.

236
00:20:37.500 --> 00:20:40.079
And so how telegraphed was that?

237
00:20:40.140 --> 00:20:40.740
Do we know?

238
00:20:40.980 --> 00:20:42.839
No, no, no.

239
00:20:42.900 --> 00:20:58.079
So the 1st we know of it is when he's revealed in this episode, but it's obviously taken place for, so Bashir's been a changing for at least 4 episodes because Rapture, which was 4 episodes. was when they changed the uniforms and he's wearing the old uniform.

240
00:20:58.140 --> 00:21:00.359
And I thought that was really great.

241
00:21:00.420 --> 00:21:04.259
So we do get a reference to the recent stuff with a Borg.

242
00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:06.839
So we get a reference to 1st contact.

243
00:21:06.900 --> 00:21:11.339
So that's clearly been recently, and we've switched over the uniform.

244
00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:17.880
So this is now the 3rd Starfleet uniform or maybe the 4th since the beginning of Star Trek, the next generation.

245
00:21:17.940 --> 00:21:20.039
They do change uniforms an awful lot.

246
00:21:20.099 --> 00:21:21.539
I do prefer these uniforms, though.

247
00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:25.440
I just feel they look a bit more military, but to go into the war, you know?

248
00:21:25.500 --> 00:21:32.220
Yeah, I mean, I think they I think that they look pretty good and I kind of like, yeah, yeah.

249
00:21:32.279 --> 00:21:34.799
Although the Voyager ones are perfectly good too, I think.

250
00:21:35.460 --> 00:21:37.619
Yeah, yeah.

251
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:40.200
So this is Garak telling you the truth now.

252
00:21:40.259 --> 00:21:41.519
I know it.

253
00:21:41.579 --> 00:21:42.720
I have to go and find him.

254
00:21:42.779 --> 00:21:47.819
And I think maybe maybe because it's Bashir, he will open up or he thinks it's Bashir.

255
00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:48.839
Yeah.

256
00:21:48.900 --> 00:21:49.619
Yeah.

257
00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:51.480
And so that's a big surprise next season.

258
00:21:51.539 --> 00:21:57.299
I think it's a really good one and I do think that using the uniform to kind of indicate it is very clever.

259
00:21:57.359 --> 00:21:59.039
And I was wondering when they changed uniforms.

260
00:21:59.099 --> 00:22:01.259
So they change in the middle of the season, like not.

261
00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:03.779
Yeah, you can almost see the writers having a light bulb moment.

262
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:09.779
Like, okay, see, we'll make for sure a change, saying, oh, my God, we've changed the uniform, so we can indicate this has been a long time.

263
00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:11.339
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

264
00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:26.579
And I think, like what they must do is they must decide to make Deep Space 9 used the 1st contact uniforms and leave Voyager not in those uniforms to kind of differentiate them to give them a different look, which I think works quite well.

265
00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:30.420
Oh, Nathan, I love that bit as well, where you go, all right, well, then, let's go.

266
00:22:30.420 --> 00:22:32.099
To Captain Cisco.

267
00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:34.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

268
00:22:34.140 --> 00:22:37.619
But I think he gets a great line here.

269
00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:43.619
Cisco doesn't actually seem to get that much to do in this to parter.

270
00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:51.839
He's in a bit, but, you know, it's mostly happening with the other characters and a lot of it's happening off the station, particularly in part two.

271
00:22:51.900 --> 00:22:57.299
That would bother me, but in the next 2.5 years, Cisco gets a shit ton to do.

272
00:22:57.359 --> 00:22:58.740
Oh, yeah, yeah.

273
00:22:58.799 --> 00:22:59.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

274
00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:08.039
No, I'm not worried. does make the show different from other Star Treks, but he gets a really clever line at the end of this scene, which I thought was really great.

275
00:23:08.099 --> 00:23:09.779
I love all of this.

276
00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:14.400
Garak, it talks such bullshit. you know, this is a mission of mercy.

277
00:23:14.460 --> 00:23:17.819
All those people that we lost to the dominionship.

278
00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:19.680
There could be survivors out there, captain.

279
00:23:19.740 --> 00:23:20.880
You know, you owe it to them.

280
00:23:20.940 --> 00:23:27.299
But he doesn't expect to be believed, I think, and he isn't really.

281
00:23:27.660 --> 00:23:29.220
So...

282
00:23:30.299 --> 00:23:33.779
The best the best bullshit he gives is when he tries to convince Wolf.

283
00:23:33.779 --> 00:23:35.700
He wants to join Starfleet Academy.

284
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:40.200
I think that's a good scene and we'll talk about it when we get there. that's really particularly good.

285
00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:45.059
So who goes with him?

286
00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:46.440
Wolf?

287
00:23:46.500 --> 00:23:47.579
Ah, here we go.

288
00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:53.039
And so that's this again is just checking in with characters, isn't it?

289
00:23:53.099 --> 00:24:00.539
Well, it is, and it's about time too, because they 1st got it on and looking for a palmark in all the wrong places.

290
00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:06.660
Then we had, unfortunately, let he, who is without sin...

291
00:24:06.660 --> 00:24:12.420
A couple of episodes, which was terrible, and it really did a bit of damage to the sort of credibility of Dax and Wharf.

292
00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:17.759
And now here, they're like, okay, well, you need to give this just a scene or a bit of focus.

293
00:24:17.819 --> 00:24:21.660
And I like this because she's doing what I'll do in my other Ralph.

294
00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:22.500
She ribbing at him.

295
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:24.539
You know, she's annoying him in every way possible.

296
00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:26.940
And then at the end of the scene, there's a bit of passion.

297
00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:27.779
She just snogs him.

298
00:24:27.839 --> 00:24:31.680
I like the threat to his collection as well.

299
00:24:31.740 --> 00:24:34.740
And this is something else.

300
00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:40.980
You know, he has a very carefully curated collection of media that he really likes.

301
00:24:41.099 --> 00:24:43.500
And she says, I'm going to borrow it.

302
00:24:43.500 --> 00:24:45.000
And who knows?

303
00:24:45.059 --> 00:24:47.400
You know, I could look...

304
00:24:47.460 --> 00:24:48.960
You have a tendency to like, whatever.

305
00:24:50.099 --> 00:24:57.779
And it's kind of like her low level kind of way of manipulating him to come back.

306
00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:00.420
And I like that.

307
00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:09.900
And one of the things that happens here too is that a lot of these scenes have corresponding scenes in part 2 that pay off.

308
00:25:09.960 --> 00:25:11.700
And so this gets paid off.

309
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:13.019
It doesn't get forgotten.

310
00:25:13.079 --> 00:25:23.460
I also like, as well, I said in my little speech at the beginning of the episode, that I like the fact that they're allowed to be their own cult, like people respect each other's cultures.

311
00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:26.279
And she says to him at the end of the day, saying, have a glorious death or not.

312
00:25:26.339 --> 00:25:26.940
It's up to you.

313
00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:31.799
But she's respecting the fact that he's a Klingon and he's going off into a dangerous situation.

314
00:25:31.859 --> 00:25:32.460
I like that.

315
00:25:32.819 --> 00:25:34.619
She's so good.

316
00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:35.700
Holy crap.

317
00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:37.559
I don't know if you recall in TNG.

318
00:25:37.619 --> 00:25:44.400
They spent most of TNG telling Wolf, you know, you need to stop thinking like a Klingon and, you know, start behaving like a human being.

319
00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:45.839
Well, he's not a human being.

320
00:25:45.900 --> 00:25:46.559
No.

321
00:25:46.619 --> 00:25:56.640
Well, and and he doesn't get that because we're not doing a procedural and he doesn't have to be there to say that um, say things that are wrong all the time.

322
00:25:56.700 --> 00:25:58.140
He doesn't have to be wrong all the time.

323
00:25:58.200 --> 00:26:04.559
Do you know this is the only episode of Deep Space 9 to be directed by a woman?

324
00:26:04.680 --> 00:26:05.940
Wow.

325
00:26:06.059 --> 00:26:07.740
Gabrielle Beaumont.

326
00:26:07.799 --> 00:26:10.140
Yeah, she did a couple of TNGs and she did this.

327
00:26:10.200 --> 00:26:15.240
She did, I think she might have done Voyager as well, one on some Voyager.

328
00:26:15.299 --> 00:26:16.200
Did she?

329
00:26:16.259 --> 00:26:17.160
She might have done.

330
00:26:17.220 --> 00:26:18.480
She did a handful.

331
00:26:18.539 --> 00:26:19.140
She didn't do many.

332
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:19.920
Yeah.

333
00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:23.700
But apparently the castle, they really responded well to her.

334
00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:27.480
They should have had a room for more because I think she's she's got a good hand with the actors in this.

335
00:26:27.539 --> 00:26:31.019
Well, and this is absolutely just an actor's piece.

336
00:26:31.079 --> 00:26:33.660
There's been no action so far, has there?

337
00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:34.680
We are just talking.

338
00:26:34.740 --> 00:26:40.859
And we haven't even had any kind of opticals, like no special effects at all yet.

339
00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:43.799
And they are scarce throughout this two-parter.

340
00:26:43.859 --> 00:26:45.900
I didn't really mind. everyone is.

341
00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:47.880
Like again, I know all that's coming.

342
00:26:47.940 --> 00:26:51.420
We're going to have some spectacle at the end of the season and certainly in the next 2 years.

343
00:26:51.539 --> 00:26:58.200
Oh, and we get a big, a big special effect shot is the climax of the 1st episode.

344
00:26:58.259 --> 00:26:59.759
I love that.

345
00:26:59.880 --> 00:27:00.660
Yeah, so much.

346
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:01.259
Yeah, yeah.

347
00:27:01.319 --> 00:27:02.400
Yeah, it's pretty cool.

348
00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:03.599
Tell you about when I 1st watched that.

349
00:27:03.660 --> 00:27:06.420
Yeah, and there's plenty of stuff going on in the 2nd part.

350
00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:10.920
Like, I think there are more sort of establishing shots and stuff like that. certainly a lot of fights.

351
00:27:10.980 --> 00:27:11.880
Yeah.

352
00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:12.539
Yeah.

353
00:27:12.599 --> 00:27:19.799
I was thinking about that because, you know, we were just doing Star Trek, the original series and we're talking about how like a fistfighters.

354
00:27:19.859 --> 00:27:21.539
Here we go. bit of action.

355
00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:22.319
Oh, yes.

356
00:27:22.500 --> 00:27:24.119
Now look.

357
00:27:24.180 --> 00:27:28.259
You know and I know that this show is gold.

358
00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:31.319
If you've got Dukat and Garak in the same scene.

359
00:27:31.380 --> 00:27:32.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

360
00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:42.539
I like it when so Garak's literally been thrown almost off the edge of Quark's bar there onto the double table and he gets up and he goes, you know what?

361
00:27:42.599 --> 00:27:44.099
I think that actually helped my back.

362
00:27:46.619 --> 00:27:56.099
So this is so Garak, again, we're checking in with Garak because his character is about to change quite substantially.

363
00:27:56.160 --> 00:28:04.140
And so you said that, because they do refer to his bird of prey and I had had to think, well, why he has a bird of prey.

364
00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:10.200
So they refer to that in dialogue and then here, you know, he's clearly been on the station and stuff like that.

365
00:28:10.259 --> 00:28:17.640
He's not that adversarial character who kind of checks in on the TV, which he's going to go back to being.

366
00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:22.980
And I think the scene with him and Kira is really great as well.

367
00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:37.799
I mean, they're always good, but I mean, I think I think some of the things between Dukat and Kira during the occupation arc at the beginning of 6 are probably the best stuff they ever had because he's in a position of power over her there and they just sizzle those themes.

368
00:28:37.859 --> 00:28:41.220
Here, it's about as far away from that as possible.

369
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:42.539
She doesn't even acknowledge him.

370
00:28:42.599 --> 00:28:43.319
Yeah.

371
00:28:43.380 --> 00:28:43.859
Yeah.

372
00:28:43.859 --> 00:28:45.180
How about this?

373
00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:57.299
The thing that occurs to me is that in discovery, of course, the president of the Federation is like she's human mostly, but she has some Bajoran and some Cardassian.

374
00:28:57.359 --> 00:29:03.660
And so there's a sort of like Ziel's makeup isn't a 1000000 miles away from her makeup.

375
00:29:03.660 --> 00:29:06.720
And it is a sort of striking visual, isn't it?

376
00:29:06.779 --> 00:29:13.920
Just because, you know, just because of...

377
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:15.660
Yeah, as well. yeah, yeah, yeah.

378
00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:16.380
Yeah.

379
00:29:16.440 --> 00:29:17.819
Oh, God.

380
00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:21.359
The way it might be like that, I assume that's a joke.

381
00:29:21.420 --> 00:29:23.160
And that he says we will see.

382
00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:31.799
And the way he delivers the line, like there's no way of telling if it's a joke or not, because that's how Worf talks.

383
00:29:31.859 --> 00:29:33.180
It's really clever.

384
00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:34.740
It's really well judged.

385
00:29:34.799 --> 00:29:36.539
At the 1st sight of deception.

386
00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:37.319
I will kill them.

387
00:29:37.380 --> 00:29:38.160
I will kill him.

388
00:29:38.220 --> 00:29:40.440
I will bring somebody back intact.

389
00:29:40.500 --> 00:29:42.420
It's really good.

390
00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:45.000
The 2 of them, they're just perfectly written for.

391
00:29:45.059 --> 00:29:46.920
And then this...

392
00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:50.279
Oh, I think the dialogue in this scene is blissful.

393
00:29:50.339 --> 00:29:59.099
I actually think that it does make, just for the sake of the joke, just so that it lands, it makes Wolf a bit too stupid.

394
00:29:59.160 --> 00:30:01.259
Well, wharf's always stupid.

395
00:30:01.319 --> 00:30:07.920
I know, but it's fairly clear to us, I think, that he's just tormenting wharf.

396
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:13.440
And Worf buys it a little bit too easily, I think.

397
00:30:13.500 --> 00:30:16.380
I think they should have allowed him to be more sceptical.

398
00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:18.960
But it is really funny.

399
00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:27.119
And of course, the reason this scene is here is because of where these characters end up at the end of episode two, which I think is so good.

400
00:30:27.240 --> 00:30:34.740
I don't know if you remember in series, the series 4 finale, Broken Link. When they're at the Changeling Planet.

401
00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:39.359
Remember Odo's sort of turning into gloops and they go back to the change in planet?

402
00:30:39.420 --> 00:30:52.380
And Garak, in revenge for Tain, so it's tied into this again, tries to take control of the defiance torpedoes to nuke the planet and wharf catches him and they have a massive fight.

403
00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:57.299
It ends with Wharf going, you fight well for a tailor.

404
00:30:57.720 --> 00:31:04.980
It's a great scene, but it really shows that there is this sort of fiery hatred between these 2 characters.

405
00:31:05.039 --> 00:31:07.319
And they needed to address that here.

406
00:31:07.380 --> 00:31:17.160
So I think this is really good at establishing it and like you say, after they've both proven their worth to each other in the 2nd episode, then we acknowledge that actually things are different now.

407
00:31:17.220 --> 00:31:40.259
Yeah, I mean, I think we enjoy watching Garak, but if you are going to make him irregular and basically treat him like one of the team, I think that we need to see that he's good in terms that we understand, you know, that he's a good person, you know, I think we've occasionally seen that even of Quark, you know, that he is in lots of ways, a much better person than he would like to admit.

408
00:31:41.220 --> 00:31:50.519
What's wonderful about this scene between Dakart and Kira, apart from the performances, which are great, is obviously he knows he's about to sell them out to the Dominions.

409
00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:54.119
And he knows that threatening her has consequences.

410
00:31:54.180 --> 00:31:55.920
She has no clue.

411
00:31:55.980 --> 00:31:56.400
No idea.

412
00:31:56.460 --> 00:31:57.900
Yeah, yeah.

413
00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:00.839
And in fact, she's absolutely dismissive.

414
00:32:00.900 --> 00:32:09.660
There's a wonderful reaction here when he starts threatening and she is just absolutely indifferent to it.

415
00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:13.859
Like, you know, I think and she plays it really well.

416
00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:15.480
She plays it really, really well.

417
00:32:15.539 --> 00:32:16.920
These 2 are always great.

418
00:32:16.980 --> 00:32:25.019
Well, it's the line, he goes, when he goes, there was a time when Bajorans took Cardassian threats very seriously, and she just goes, yeah, not anymore.

419
00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:27.299
Yeah, yeah, it's really good. isn't it?

420
00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:28.559
It's really good.

421
00:32:28.619 --> 00:32:32.039
But I think this team works even better after seeing the 2nd episode.

422
00:32:32.279 --> 00:32:35.880
And I think it's credible as well.

423
00:32:35.940 --> 00:32:59.099
Like, I think that, like, you're having an argument about whether Ziel is allowed to have this relationship with Garak, and I want to hear, I think, that Kira thinks it's a bad idea, but, you know, she's not going to intervene because, yeah, as a young woman and, you know, that's not how you bring someone up or how you look after a young adult.

424
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:07.019
And what was interesting was when Descartes basically gave the out to Kira to look after on the station.

425
00:33:07.079 --> 00:33:13.380
He even says it's it's great because now I've got a link to you because it's always had this thing for Kira.

426
00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:18.960
It's always sort of bubbling under this sort of, um, uh, want he has for her.

427
00:33:19.019 --> 00:33:22.500
And now this is like the ultimate betrayal that...

428
00:33:22.500 --> 00:33:23.819
It's worst enemy.

429
00:33:23.880 --> 00:33:27.779
No, her line, if that's a threat, I'm not impressed.

430
00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:30.240
Like it's really good.

431
00:33:30.299 --> 00:33:32.099
It's really good.

432
00:33:32.339 --> 00:33:36.839
And you know, like Kira's, Kira's not in this an enormous amount.

433
00:33:36.900 --> 00:33:39.119
Like she, but I think when she is in.

434
00:33:39.180 --> 00:33:44.759
Like, I love the bit at the end of the episode where she's like saying, well, what about the Celestial Temple?

435
00:33:44.819 --> 00:33:47.759
Yeah, you know, like this is what you want to destroy.

436
00:33:47.819 --> 00:33:51.480
And my favourite bit was where she took the chair in episode two.

437
00:33:51.539 --> 00:33:57.599
She took the Defiant and I'm thinking, well, we've come a long way from to turn about intruder, haven't we?

438
00:33:57.660 --> 00:33:59.339
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

439
00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:11.519
And can I say, none of this time I was been watching some convention anecdotes recently and none of visitors on stage there going, every time I got to take the chair, you know, I felt so powerful and in control.

440
00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:17.280
And she goes, and there was Renee, obviously, while next to me going, na, you know this is not real, right?

441
00:34:17.340 --> 00:34:19.679
You're not really in command of a spaceship.

442
00:34:19.860 --> 00:34:22.800
Let me have my moment, Renee, okay?

443
00:34:22.860 --> 00:34:31.440
It just reminds me of all that stuff about Jerry Ryan in Picard series 3 saying how much she likes sitting in the chair and because it was a spinny chair.

444
00:34:31.500 --> 00:34:34.679
It was a swivel chair and she just loved the civil chair.

445
00:34:34.739 --> 00:34:35.940
Like, just adorable.

446
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:38.159
Oh, do you know, this is very funny.

447
00:34:38.219 --> 00:34:39.599
They go through this nebula, right?

448
00:34:39.659 --> 00:34:41.820
a stock nebula that they used in vortex.

449
00:34:41.880 --> 00:34:42.840
It's exactly the same one.

450
00:34:42.900 --> 00:34:44.280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

451
00:34:44.340 --> 00:34:48.360
And it looks a bit like the Mutara nebula from...

452
00:34:48.420 --> 00:34:49.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

453
00:34:50.099 --> 00:34:55.739
Yes, I think I've seen Borg navigating their way around that. you're right.

454
00:34:55.800 --> 00:34:56.940
It's in best of both worlds.

455
00:34:57.000 --> 00:34:57.239
Yeah.

456
00:34:57.300 --> 00:34:58.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

457
00:34:58.559 --> 00:34:59.039
That's right.

458
00:34:59.099 --> 00:35:02.219
Maybe part 2 when they're kind of trying to run out the clock.

459
00:35:03.239 --> 00:35:08.699
He's using every bit of wordplay at his disposal. keep going, isn't it?

460
00:35:09.420 --> 00:35:14.219
But I love, I love it as they go in and all those ships start emerging.

461
00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:23.940
And it reminded me a bit of Scorpion when we said, you know, my God, there's 50 there was like 15 ball cubes or something in the Scorpion and you see about 20 ships emerge.

462
00:35:24.059 --> 00:35:25.980
I like that too.

463
00:35:26.039 --> 00:35:31.380
There's a little level of honesty here where Worf does say I'm being played.

464
00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:36.179
You're using this word, you know, you don't really care about it or know what it means.

465
00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:38.400
And he says, yeah, but you do.

466
00:35:38.460 --> 00:35:39.420
It works on you.

467
00:35:39.480 --> 00:35:42.780
And he kind of acknowledges yes, you know, it does.

468
00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:44.460
And so they both want the same thing.

469
00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:47.400
And so they both, you know, go in and do that.

470
00:35:47.579 --> 00:35:49.800
It's not a great lot as well.

471
00:35:49.860 --> 00:35:51.480
Garrett just going steady as she?

472
00:35:51.539 --> 00:35:52.679
Oh my god.

473
00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:56.880
I mean, there's about 30 ships there.

474
00:35:56.940 --> 00:35:58.019
I don't know how many.

475
00:35:58.019 --> 00:35:58.679
Oh, at least.

476
00:35:58.739 --> 00:36:03.179
And so there are 2 types of Gemini ships, aren't there?

477
00:36:03.239 --> 00:36:06.119
They're the little ones that look like cockroaches, which I think are really great.

478
00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:08.699
And then these big...

479
00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:09.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

480
00:36:09.780 --> 00:36:11.099
Yeah. they look really good.

481
00:36:11.159 --> 00:36:12.599
Oh my god, action.

482
00:36:12.659 --> 00:36:13.860
Jesus Christ.

483
00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:17.400
Yep, we're getting some action. people are firing things That's right.

484
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:19.019
I love the battle cruises.

485
00:36:19.079 --> 00:36:22.500
They look like sort of weird snails or something.

486
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:23.760
They're really odd looking.

487
00:36:23.820 --> 00:36:27.239
And you know, there is that pathetic, pathetic little runabout.

488
00:36:27.300 --> 00:36:29.039
So you know they're not going to last long here.

489
00:36:29.099 --> 00:36:30.239
Yeah, yeah.

490
00:36:30.300 --> 00:36:37.019
The funniest line in buying photos live was when Cisco went, launch the runabouts, as they're going to war.

491
00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:40.440
What the hell are they going to do?

492
00:36:40.500 --> 00:36:40.739
You know?

493
00:36:42.300 --> 00:36:43.860
So bad.

494
00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:50.039
Oh, I love this bit where they beam on though. and literally the audience gets smacked in the face by a gem.

495
00:36:50.099 --> 00:36:55.320
It's a it's a surprisingly stylish bit of direction there.

496
00:36:55.739 --> 00:36:58.980
There's such, yeah, good.

497
00:36:59.099 --> 00:37:02.039
Smack straight into the car.

498
00:37:02.340 --> 00:37:06.659
Whenever he's in danger, do you remember where the Warrior, where it's like, well, let me guess.

499
00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:10.139
You're either lost or desperately searching for a good tailor.

500
00:37:10.199 --> 00:37:11.760
So this scene here, right?

501
00:37:11.820 --> 00:37:23.519
So Kirioshi already recognises me, he says Kira, and Terry, who is the science officer, says that's not possible, and like explains it and all of that sort of thing.

502
00:37:23.579 --> 00:37:24.960
And so she's arguing against it.

503
00:37:25.019 --> 00:37:26.519
Terry doesn't believe it.

504
00:37:26.579 --> 00:37:27.480
Dax doesn't believe it.

505
00:37:27.539 --> 00:37:31.619
And then she walks in and says it to stupid Miles O'Brien.

506
00:37:31.679 --> 00:37:33.300
He recognises me.

507
00:37:33.360 --> 00:37:34.500
It's just like, oh, great.

508
00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:36.840
You know, this thing is so good.

509
00:37:36.900 --> 00:37:38.400
He believes it immediately.

510
00:37:38.460 --> 00:37:40.320
I just think it's absolutely adorable.

511
00:37:40.380 --> 00:37:47.039
It's a funny line and a, you know, like a clever joke, I think. something so important happens here.

512
00:37:47.099 --> 00:37:50.699
I think this is this is where DS9 turns a gear in this scene.

513
00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:58.380
You go from characters just bantering to them, suddenly saying, flee imminent, and that's when the show changes.

514
00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:01.320
That's when the Dominion is here and we're going to war, basically.

515
00:38:01.380 --> 00:38:10.199
But I mean, compare this to the sort of just butt clenchingly embarrassing banter that you get on Voyager, like just regularly.

516
00:38:10.260 --> 00:38:19.079
That conversation between the 2 women and then the payoff when she speaks to Miles and he does like a comedy response.

517
00:38:19.139 --> 00:38:20.519
I think it's really good.

518
00:38:20.639 --> 00:38:22.559
They mostly do that really well.

519
00:38:22.619 --> 00:38:23.519
I can remember.

520
00:38:23.579 --> 00:38:24.059
Oh, yeah.

521
00:38:24.119 --> 00:38:30.539
Do you remember that time O'Brien and Bashira are fighting over that model and Kira just goes, well, that's what happens when you share your toys.

522
00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:33.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

523
00:38:33.539 --> 00:38:35.159
Oh, no.

524
00:38:35.219 --> 00:38:37.739
Let's just go saying and God help us all.

525
00:38:37.800 --> 00:38:38.760
Yes.

526
00:38:38.820 --> 00:38:39.480
Okay.

527
00:38:39.539 --> 00:38:41.820
And so this model shot, which is not a model shot.

528
00:38:41.880 --> 00:38:43.860
This CGI shot, we're going to see quite a lot.

529
00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:45.420
This is our prison.

530
00:38:45.480 --> 00:38:48.420
I do like it, though. a prison on an asteroid though.

531
00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:49.079
Yeah.

532
00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:49.559
Yeah, yeah.

533
00:38:49.619 --> 00:38:50.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

534
00:38:50.699 --> 00:38:53.760
And I think it looks like it's kind of boring.

535
00:38:53.820 --> 00:38:56.460
Like it's a it's a boring set because it's a prison.

536
00:38:56.519 --> 00:38:59.039
High ceilings though, and like weird angles.

537
00:38:59.099 --> 00:39:01.019
It feels faster. yeah you're right.

538
00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:03.119
And also, I really like the moonlight coming in as well.

539
00:39:03.179 --> 00:39:06.599
It means they can put a bit of dramatic lighting on people.

540
00:39:06.659 --> 00:39:07.380
Yeah.

541
00:39:07.380 --> 00:39:14.039
And it, you know, I really noticed an episode too, when that moonlight was hitting the gem Hadar, just how detailed those masks are.

542
00:39:14.099 --> 00:39:16.320
Yeah, yeah, they are pretty good, aren't they?

543
00:39:17.099 --> 00:39:20.699
I mean, there's a lot of latex in this city.

544
00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:23.460
There's a lot of latex in this show.

545
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:28.619
A lot of latex, yeah. that's right I think when DS9 ended, the latex business.

546
00:39:28.679 --> 00:39:29.940
So you were like, oh, what are we going to do?

547
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:31.019
Yeah, what are you going to do?

548
00:39:31.079 --> 00:39:34.380
I like this head Jemhadar as well.

549
00:39:34.440 --> 00:39:38.699
And the noble leader, Jemhadar, is a thing that they go with.

550
00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:41.219
And I think he's really good.

551
00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:42.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

552
00:39:42.780 --> 00:39:44.699
He's he's great in this.

553
00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:55.679
And in fact, it's that thing where Worf and that Jemhadar have something much more fundamentally in common than the Jemhadar has with the Vorta, who runs the prison.

554
00:39:56.099 --> 00:39:58.139
Yeah, I love that bit.

555
00:39:58.199 --> 00:40:01.679
We'll get there in episode two, where he says he yields.

556
00:40:01.739 --> 00:40:02.519
That's amazing.

557
00:40:02.579 --> 00:40:03.539
So brilliant.

558
00:40:03.599 --> 00:40:05.099
This is brilliant.

559
00:40:05.159 --> 00:40:06.360
This is pure, soap opera.

560
00:40:06.420 --> 00:40:08.159
It's like, you're staying for him, aren't you?

561
00:40:08.219 --> 00:40:09.360
That despicable tale.

562
00:40:09.420 --> 00:40:12.539
You don't want to leave, just stay careful, Taylor.

563
00:40:12.659 --> 00:40:13.619
And I was like, yes.

564
00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:17.159
I feel like I've switched onto neighbours with latex, you know?

565
00:40:17.639 --> 00:40:19.500
It's exactly it.

566
00:40:19.559 --> 00:40:21.239
This is all I want from television.

567
00:40:25.380 --> 00:40:26.940
But it is rooted.

568
00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:29.219
All that backstory is already there and has been explored.

569
00:40:29.340 --> 00:40:33.119
So it's not like they're just, it's not like Voyager where they're just saying words for that episode.

570
00:40:33.179 --> 00:40:34.679
No, that's right.

571
00:40:34.739 --> 00:40:35.340
That's it.

572
00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:38.400
Well, because it's ongoing because it is like a soap opera.

573
00:40:38.460 --> 00:41:00.539
And like it is that thing where we watch Star Trek, the way that people watch soap operas, you know, a soap opera, like Star Trek, a Star Trek episode in 2023 can refer to a Star Trek episode in the 60s and a lot of the, you know, viewers will get what it's talking about and soaps operate that way as well.

574
00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:05.400
You know, we know minutie about these people's lives.

575
00:41:05.460 --> 00:41:07.260
Yeah, look how tall the ceilings are.

576
00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:08.639
It is a good set.

577
00:41:08.699 --> 00:41:13.559
That show has been embedded into like public consciousness for such a long time.

578
00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:14.699
Yeah.

579
00:41:14.760 --> 00:41:15.480
Yeah.

580
00:41:16.260 --> 00:41:22.320
Yeah, for a 2nd I thought this might be Hertzler, JJ Hertzler, but it's not, is it?

581
00:41:22.380 --> 00:41:23.400
Because it's Martok.

582
00:41:23.460 --> 00:41:30.539
It's the 1st half of this, the 1st half of this episode, we've had like one character scene after another as the plot's been bubbling.

583
00:41:30.599 --> 00:41:33.539
Now you get a 3 sucker punch of twists.

584
00:41:33.599 --> 00:41:36.059
You get Tain is there.

585
00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:36.900
And we did?

586
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:43.800
You know, and we kind of suspected that because Garrick said that, but it's, you know, and he's on his last legs.

587
00:41:43.860 --> 00:41:53.099
And you've got Martok there, and nobody suspected that, that he would be coming back, and then you've got Bashir there, and they stagger these really well.

588
00:41:53.159 --> 00:41:54.059
Yeah.

589
00:41:54.059 --> 00:41:55.440
And they're good.

590
00:41:55.500 --> 00:41:58.559
Like, they are good soap opera reveals, but they're also really excellent.

591
00:41:58.559 --> 00:42:06.000
And the Martoc decision, like, it gets you, JJ Hartzer, nearly every week as a result.

592
00:42:06.059 --> 00:42:07.619
And so it's a great choice.

593
00:42:07.739 --> 00:42:18.960
And it means that Worf, who has been on the show less time than everyone else, now gets his ancillary character.

594
00:42:19.019 --> 00:42:31.199
You know, the way that Quark has Nog and ROM and the way that Julian has Garak and stuff like that now, he has Martoc and, you know, a Deep Space 9 character has to have that, I think.

595
00:42:31.260 --> 00:42:38.639
I always think of like, uh, this is like the Klingon alternative to Bashir and O'Brien, you know, they're like the best of us, aren't they?

596
00:42:38.699 --> 00:42:39.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

597
00:42:39.659 --> 00:42:42.420
But they might pull a knife on each other, you know.

598
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:45.179
If the situation warrants it.

599
00:42:45.239 --> 00:42:49.500
And so we recognise Martok, but we've never actually seen Martok.

600
00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:51.239
He's been in prison this whole time.

601
00:42:51.300 --> 00:42:55.500
Yeah, so he's been in prison since before Way of the Warrior.

602
00:42:55.559 --> 00:42:56.099
Yeah.

603
00:42:56.099 --> 00:42:57.960
And that Martok was a changeling.

604
00:42:58.019 --> 00:43:06.239
And then at the end of season four, they try and convince you that the Changians put an idea in Odo's head that Gauron is changing.

605
00:43:06.300 --> 00:43:13.139
So they go to assassinate Gauron in Apocalypse Rising, and then the big twist there is no, it was never Gauron.

606
00:43:13.199 --> 00:43:14.579
It was my talk.

607
00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:16.380
I mean, this is great plotting.

608
00:43:16.440 --> 00:43:18.179
And it all came up really well.

609
00:43:18.239 --> 00:43:24.300
But I do think like what we get out of this is not just this fabulous twist.

610
00:43:24.360 --> 00:43:26.340
It's also going on for the show.

611
00:43:26.400 --> 00:43:28.139
It's great. for Wharf too.

612
00:43:28.199 --> 00:43:28.980
Wonderful.

613
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:35.460
Do you remember that scene in Strange Bedfellows, where he tells Cisco, who's just married Cassidy, you know?

614
00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:37.139
I learned a long time ago.

615
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:41.159
I might win the out battle, but she will always win the war.

616
00:43:41.699 --> 00:43:43.800
He's so charming.

617
00:43:43.860 --> 00:43:46.260
And he does chew the scenery but brilliantly.

618
00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:52.260
Here is Taine, who is kind of American TV royalty like it.

619
00:43:52.320 --> 00:44:00.360
I'm kind of here thinking, 0 my god, they got this guy in all this latex for several episodes, which was sort of pretty great.

620
00:44:00.420 --> 00:44:02.460
And he is very good.

621
00:44:02.519 --> 00:44:06.900
Did we suspect that he was Garak's father?

622
00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:08.940
I think so.

623
00:44:08.940 --> 00:44:23.219
Because, um, in the 1st episode where he's introduced the wire, which is where Garak's chip in his head malfunctions, and we go to Cardassia, and it's Tane that gives Bashir the information to repair it.

624
00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:29.039
Then in the two-parter in series three, Tain says to Garak, I want you to come and be a part of this.

625
00:44:29.099 --> 00:44:32.579
So there's always been a big connection between the 2 of them.

626
00:44:32.639 --> 00:44:36.420
They just haven't explicitly said... that they're following. a ton.

627
00:44:36.480 --> 00:44:46.980
And but I think I remember people sort of theorising about it or guessing, and it's kind of sweet that they just went, oh, yeah, fuck it, let's give it to them.

628
00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:51.179
Let's, and it's only for the sake of this sort of one scene.

629
00:44:51.239 --> 00:44:53.639
And it is...

630
00:44:53.699 --> 00:45:04.440
It does make, it gives context to Garak's exile as well as to why he's on D Space 9 because in the two-parter, he goes, I never betrayed you, at least not.

631
00:45:04.500 --> 00:45:13.559
So something went down back in the day where Taine thought that Garrett betrayed him and that's why he's been exiled and why he can never go back to Cardassia because Taine's an important figure.

632
00:45:14.519 --> 00:45:16.679
Yeah, here we go.

633
00:45:16.739 --> 00:45:18.360
Here we just referred to 1st contact.

634
00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:24.539
Um, so we're in the wardroom and what's happening?

635
00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:31.920
Oh, so we're, we're discussing the dominion ships that are on their way and we're talking about our plan to close the wormhole at this point.

636
00:45:31.980 --> 00:45:32.639
Is that happening?

637
00:45:32.760 --> 00:45:39.059
Because that gets kind of thrown away in this episode, doesn't it?

638
00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:41.099
And in fact, they kind of hold it.

639
00:45:41.159 --> 00:45:48.659
Like, I think we do eventually close the wormhole, but the way that they talk in this episode, it's as if that's no longer a possibility.

640
00:45:48.719 --> 00:45:51.780
Like we can't even try to close the wormhole now.

641
00:45:51.780 --> 00:46:00.119
And that's obviously because, you know, they're going to end up letting heaps of dominion, you know, ships through going forward.

642
00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:11.159
This is the one I was telling you about where they mentioned Lenara can't, because she was trying to do. an artificial wormhole and rejoined and Jazius, essentially, Lenara was always better on theory than she was on practice.

643
00:46:11.400 --> 00:46:20.760
And if you watch Marco Lemo's performance in this scene, obviously, he knows, he's read the script for the two-parter, that Dukat is, so he's slouching.

644
00:46:20.820 --> 00:46:28.559
He's barely sort of connecting with the conversation they're having when when they say, oh, you know, what about Garricka Wharf?

645
00:46:28.559 --> 00:46:30.360
He just goes, casualties of war.

646
00:46:30.840 --> 00:46:32.280
Yeah.

647
00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:36.360
But it is good.

648
00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:39.719
It is good that Kira says her piece about the wormhole.

649
00:46:39.780 --> 00:46:40.679
Yeah, I think so too.

650
00:46:40.739 --> 00:46:45.420
This guy goes, well, look, it's either that or the Dominion come along and kill all your people, you know?

651
00:46:46.139 --> 00:46:48.659
Yeah, it's kind of funny, isn't it?

652
00:46:48.719 --> 00:46:55.800
Because, you know, space is so, you know, like they just go somewhere or they end up wherever they want to be.

653
00:46:55.860 --> 00:47:06.059
And so you don't get that sense really, you know, really get that sense that if the wormhole that we're talking like years and years before they could possibly get back.

654
00:47:06.059 --> 00:47:13.500
But that scene where they're sort of discussing tactics and big shifts, this becomes the norm in DS9 and galog.

655
00:47:13.559 --> 00:47:15.960
But this certainly wasn't the norm in 90s trek.

656
00:47:16.019 --> 00:47:17.280
No, not at all.

657
00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:18.000
Yeah.

658
00:47:18.059 --> 00:47:20.219
So it is like super refreshing.

659
00:47:20.280 --> 00:47:21.780
Yeah, I agree.

660
00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:26.340
Oh, I like the, yeah, Martoc, look, he's got respected Cardassians.

661
00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:27.840
They're clever people, you know?

662
00:47:27.900 --> 00:47:28.800
Yeah.

663
00:47:28.860 --> 00:47:35.639
And so, and so, and the eye thing, that's just this Martoc, and he's lost that in prison.

664
00:47:36.059 --> 00:47:43.440
So, yeah, and that's how we distinguish him from the one that we knew in series four.

665
00:47:43.500 --> 00:47:47.820
Now, I quite like that Romulan that was hanging around in the prison with them, you know.

666
00:47:47.880 --> 00:47:51.539
But she's a she's got a bit more personality than your average Romulan.

667
00:47:51.599 --> 00:47:54.300
That is so great, isn't it?

668
00:47:54.360 --> 00:48:00.360
That is such a great, you know, cliffhanger to go to the ad break.

669
00:48:00.420 --> 00:48:04.500
And it is astonishing that they didn't use that for the cliffhanger.

670
00:48:04.500 --> 00:48:07.019
And that's only because they had a better cliffhanger in the wings.

671
00:48:07.019 --> 00:48:07.619
Yeah, yeah.

672
00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:08.219
Yeah.

673
00:48:08.280 --> 00:48:10.139
Or a more sort of climactic one.

674
00:48:12.659 --> 00:48:16.739
I think Bashir looks great with a bit of scruff, you know, and a bit.

675
00:48:16.800 --> 00:48:19.380
Yeah, well I do too. he looks really handsome here.

676
00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:31.980
And the funny thing is that now Bashir back on the station will start doing the passenger level villain acting, which is so cheesy and so terrible.

677
00:48:32.039 --> 00:48:33.780
Nowhere near as bad as a passenger.

678
00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:35.519
But it is still kind of bad.

679
00:48:35.579 --> 00:48:37.440
He does that wonderful.

680
00:48:37.500 --> 00:48:40.800
Remember an alias when you had a whole season of fake Francie.

681
00:48:40.860 --> 00:48:43.800
And every time no one was looking at her, she was doing an evil smile.

682
00:48:43.860 --> 00:48:46.739
And then the 2nd they started looking at her, she's all normal again.

683
00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:48.239
Bashir starts doing this.

684
00:48:48.239 --> 00:48:49.199
That's what he's doing.

685
00:48:49.260 --> 00:48:52.679
He's in the turbo lift with the most evil smile imaginable.

686
00:48:52.739 --> 00:48:55.559
And then he goes, oh, I brought you some sandwiches.

687
00:48:56.639 --> 00:48:58.800
This thing is so funny.

688
00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:03.420
There he is.

689
00:49:03.480 --> 00:49:04.019
There he is.

690
00:49:05.159 --> 00:49:07.739
Oh, he's doing an evil smile.

691
00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:10.679
So bad.

692
00:49:10.679 --> 00:49:11.639
He is evil.

693
00:49:11.699 --> 00:49:14.219
Oh, and he's reading them evil sandwiches as well.

694
00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:15.119
There we go.

695
00:49:15.300 --> 00:49:18.599
This is something else that Star Trek does not do.

696
00:49:18.659 --> 00:49:26.400
It doesn't pull the rug like this over, you know, suggesting that this character that we've been hanging with for the last 4 or 5 episodes.

697
00:49:26.460 --> 00:49:27.360
It isn't that character.

698
00:49:27.480 --> 00:49:34.860
I mean, Voyager does it a bit early on, you know, because you've got the guy who's signalling the.

699
00:49:34.920 --> 00:49:35.880
Oh, Michael Jones.

700
00:49:35.880 --> 00:49:36.179
Yeah.

701
00:49:36.239 --> 00:49:40.079
Yeah, yeah. and you've got and then you've got Cesca and stuff like that.

702
00:49:40.139 --> 00:49:41.699
Cesca's the best one.

703
00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:43.380
Michael Jonas will know he's doing it.

704
00:49:43.440 --> 00:49:46.139
Whereas this is a this is a massive rug pull, isn't it?

705
00:49:46.199 --> 00:49:47.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

706
00:49:47.880 --> 00:49:53.519
Well, and I do love then that we get all these scenes in episode two, where she is in the background looking a bit menacing.

707
00:49:53.579 --> 00:49:58.440
And like, it adds another layer that we know that somebody there is up to no good.

708
00:49:58.500 --> 00:50:09.539
Well, it's kind of funny because there is also just a kind of ludicrous space plot, which they thwart, which is that we'll blow up Bajor's son and destroy everything.

709
00:50:09.599 --> 00:50:12.000
You know, which is absurd.

710
00:50:12.059 --> 00:50:19.559
Um, and, but it gives us a big climax and a big, like it gives us a victory at the end of the episode as well.

711
00:50:19.619 --> 00:50:28.260
But as well as sort of big climatic battles, the Dominion has also been known to do, I mean, maybe not something as silly as that.

712
00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:31.019
But like, you know, like the quickening plague and things like that.

713
00:50:31.079 --> 00:50:34.980
They've used subtler methods than sending out.

714
00:50:35.039 --> 00:50:38.880
And, you know, why use 500 ships when you can use one runabout and a bomb?

715
00:50:38.940 --> 00:50:39.960
Yeah.

716
00:50:40.019 --> 00:50:47.159
Yeah, but I mean, I think, you know, we end in a worse place than where we started, don't we?

717
00:50:47.219 --> 00:50:54.960
Because now the Dominions on this side, in the Gamma Quadrant, and it's a part of one of the major powers in the galaxy.

718
00:50:55.019 --> 00:51:04.380
And so, so having some ludicrous plot that they could easily thwart and feel good about at the end of episode 2 is a great plan and it works really well.

719
00:51:04.440 --> 00:51:19.199
The one thing that we're missing at this point, and it's only because Jeffrey Coombs isn't back yet, and he will be back in about 5 or 6 episodes time, is that we're not seeing any of this from the Dominion point of view, which is what we get a lot going ahead.

720
00:51:19.260 --> 00:51:21.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

721
00:51:21.480 --> 00:51:25.920
And I love I love all that stuff because it just means Jeffrey Coombe's being camp and wonderful.

722
00:51:25.980 --> 00:51:27.840
It's so great, isn't it?

723
00:51:27.840 --> 00:51:30.719
The Romulans, so predictably treacherous.

724
00:51:30.780 --> 00:51:32.579
It's so funny.

725
00:51:32.639 --> 00:51:33.840
Like those scenes.

726
00:51:33.900 --> 00:51:47.820
It's wonderful that they, I think I've said this before, that those scenes are so camp and so silly and so funny that without undermining the threat, like without making the Dominion ridiculous.

727
00:51:47.880 --> 00:51:49.440
I think it's really good.

728
00:51:49.500 --> 00:51:52.199
It's deftly done.

729
00:51:53.280 --> 00:52:01.980
So we are coming up to war finding out now that he's going to have to, you know, fight one Jem Hadar after another.

730
00:52:02.519 --> 00:52:04.199
In the prison.

731
00:52:04.260 --> 00:52:05.159
Yeah, yeah.

732
00:52:05.340 --> 00:52:09.239
And that's basically what he does for the entire 2nd episode.

733
00:52:09.300 --> 00:52:11.280
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

734
00:52:11.340 --> 00:52:14.639
And so that gives us some like action and stuff like that.

735
00:52:14.699 --> 00:52:18.360
Um, so what has happened?

736
00:52:18.420 --> 00:52:24.840
I can't remember what when Taine and like Taine doesn't want to speak to Garak or something like that?

737
00:52:24.840 --> 00:52:26.639
I know, because he thought Garak would come in.

738
00:52:26.639 --> 00:52:28.860
Charging the light brigade and saving it.

739
00:52:28.920 --> 00:52:29.460
Oh, okay.

740
00:52:29.519 --> 00:52:33.539
And so he's annoyed that he just got captured and he isn't doing anything.

741
00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:33.900
Yeah.

742
00:52:33.960 --> 00:52:41.760
And I know you and I talked, um, off Mike about Tame's death scene.

743
00:52:41.760 --> 00:52:46.199
And it, yeah, of course, they're always a bitch.

744
00:52:46.260 --> 00:52:51.960
But I do like, it's, I think what salvages it is what how Andy Robinson plays it.

745
00:52:52.019 --> 00:52:52.320
Yeah.

746
00:52:52.380 --> 00:52:53.340
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

747
00:52:53.400 --> 00:52:54.840
He refuses the riding.

748
00:52:54.900 --> 00:53:00.300
He refuses it to be utterly schmaltzy. when he goes, Garrett, come here.

749
00:53:00.360 --> 00:53:02.340
And Garrett just goes, I'm listening.

750
00:53:05.340 --> 00:53:11.579
But I do like the fact as well that Tane, he does throw him a bone, but it's a pretty small bone, you know.

751
00:53:11.639 --> 00:53:12.420
Yeah, yeah.

752
00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:13.139
Well, it's funny.

753
00:53:13.199 --> 00:53:14.940
It's like it was the only day.

754
00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:16.199
Yes, that was the day.

755
00:53:16.260 --> 00:53:17.159
It was the early day.

756
00:53:17.219 --> 00:53:25.679
I love the I also like too, that he gets to say it in the presence of Julian.

757
00:53:25.739 --> 00:53:36.300
Like, and I think that that's super important because in a way it doesn't really happen, if it just happens to Garak, and Tame dies.

758
00:53:36.360 --> 00:53:38.159
He doesn't survive the conversation.

759
00:53:38.219 --> 00:53:43.679
And so I think that that is really pretty good.

760
00:53:43.739 --> 00:53:47.099
And I do think that he plays it pretty well.

761
00:53:47.159 --> 00:53:53.280
Like he doesn't get sentimental and he's kind of impatient more than anything else.

762
00:53:53.340 --> 00:53:57.360
It's just like, come on, you're going to die, just this once.

763
00:53:57.420 --> 00:53:58.860
Can we just admit it?

764
00:53:58.920 --> 00:54:01.019
You know, um.

765
00:54:01.079 --> 00:54:05.820
Well, I mean, I mean, I, you know, I have a fairly fractious relationship with my dad.

766
00:54:05.880 --> 00:54:09.480
I imagine this is what the death says bed scene would be like, you know, right?

767
00:54:09.539 --> 00:54:13.139
You just tell me how you feel about it before you pop your blogs, you know?

768
00:54:13.199 --> 00:54:14.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

769
00:54:14.820 --> 00:54:19.440
Sometimes men just can't talk to each other in a way that they probably should.

770
00:54:19.559 --> 00:54:20.579
Yeah.

771
00:54:20.639 --> 00:54:22.440
I like, don't die here.

772
00:54:22.500 --> 00:54:25.260
I like, don't die here, escape, live, you know.

773
00:54:26.099 --> 00:54:30.239
I think all of that stuff is, that's pretty great.

774
00:54:30.360 --> 00:54:36.780
I like Bashir's reaction when he says a father to his son because he's like the audience going, what?

775
00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:39.239
Oh, yeah.

776
00:54:39.300 --> 00:54:40.019
Well, that's it.

777
00:54:40.079 --> 00:54:41.579
And I think that's why he has to be here.

778
00:54:41.639 --> 00:54:42.599
It's a clever choice.

779
00:54:43.199 --> 00:54:51.480
I like the fact that Garak allows himself like a moment of just a moment of emotion and then he gets up, takes a breath and goes, right, let's get out of here.

780
00:54:51.539 --> 00:55:00.900
But it is one of those hilarious cheesy Star Trek backstory things that we make fun of, you know, that that Kurtzman Trek makes fun of.

781
00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:06.539
It's like he kept falling off his riding hound and blah, you know, like, Jesus Christ.

782
00:55:07.500 --> 00:55:13.079
It's somewhat tempered by the fact that he says, I should have killed your mother before you were born.

783
00:55:13.139 --> 00:55:13.739
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

784
00:55:13.800 --> 00:55:15.719
No, he's a truly terrible person, which is pretty great.

785
00:55:15.780 --> 00:55:18.480
Well, we find out later on, don't we?

786
00:55:18.539 --> 00:55:23.039
The Tame, the reason why Gareth's got claustrophobia is Tame used to lock him up in a cupboard.

787
00:55:23.099 --> 00:55:24.360
Right, yeah.

788
00:55:24.420 --> 00:55:25.619
Teach him a lesson.

789
00:55:25.679 --> 00:55:28.980
I mean, it sounds like a, he's not, you know, we need something.

790
00:55:29.039 --> 00:55:30.059
He's a terrible person.

791
00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:31.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

792
00:55:31.260 --> 00:55:33.000
Well, she's kind of a terrible person as well.

793
00:55:35.760 --> 00:55:37.739
Yes, here we go.

794
00:55:38.039 --> 00:55:41.159
You know, you know, this is just to remind us.

795
00:55:41.219 --> 00:55:42.300
This is still not his trek.

796
00:55:42.360 --> 00:55:43.920
It's still 90 Star Trek.

797
00:55:44.639 --> 00:55:48.179
I love how Cardassians have riding hounds, though.

798
00:55:48.239 --> 00:55:50.699
I think that's a great, that's a great choice.

799
00:55:50.760 --> 00:55:54.539
So they've got big giant dogs on Cardassia that you can ride around.

800
00:55:54.599 --> 00:56:00.659
The wonderful thing about Garrett getting up and saying, right, let's go. is it's almost like going, right, that plot's done with.

801
00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:02.579
Let's get this one done with as well now.

802
00:56:02.639 --> 00:56:05.219
Yeah, I think it's, I think it's good.

803
00:56:05.280 --> 00:56:10.920
I do think that, like, this episode works even if Tain's not here.

804
00:56:10.980 --> 00:56:12.360
Do you know what I mean?

805
00:56:12.420 --> 00:56:14.880
He's only here for the purpose of this scene.

806
00:56:14.940 --> 00:56:17.280
He's not really that crucial to the plot.

807
00:56:17.340 --> 00:56:21.960
He could easily have motivated and they've just not been here, you know, or...

808
00:56:22.019 --> 00:56:23.159
Kardassian, you know?

809
00:56:23.219 --> 00:56:24.840
Gold Messet or something.

810
00:56:24.900 --> 00:56:28.079
It could have been the one in the prison sending out the Cardassian signals.

811
00:56:28.139 --> 00:56:33.840
Yeah, or he just, you know, like if, you know, is it Dooley, Paul Dooley, is that his day?

812
00:56:33.840 --> 00:56:34.860
Oh, that would have been available.

813
00:56:34.920 --> 00:56:37.739
Imagine that. sending out the signals.

814
00:56:38.340 --> 00:56:45.059
He's going through the whole, you know, the whole rigmarole of, you know, getting them there and everything and it turns out they're ex-lovers.

815
00:56:45.119 --> 00:56:46.619
Oh, God.

816
00:56:46.679 --> 00:56:48.960
Oh, Gull of Eck.

817
00:56:49.019 --> 00:56:50.880
Remember him from the voyage, I think.

818
00:56:50.940 --> 00:56:52.739
I'm thinking of Gullivic, you know.

819
00:56:53.400 --> 00:56:56.880
He's the only Cardassian, know, that's vaguely handsome.

820
00:56:56.940 --> 00:57:01.079
Yeah, well, isn't Gulma set, isn't that Mark Alimo as well?

821
00:57:01.139 --> 00:57:02.280
Is that who he is?

822
00:57:02.340 --> 00:57:04.800
Oh, when he was wearing the S&M game?

823
00:57:04.860 --> 00:57:05.159
Yeah.

824
00:57:05.219 --> 00:57:06.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

825
00:57:06.659 --> 00:57:08.760
The sort of Beaumont coat hangers.

826
00:57:08.820 --> 00:57:09.780
Yes, exactly.

827
00:57:09.900 --> 00:57:15.480
And the trouble is now is we're only dealing with all of our established races in this episode.

828
00:57:15.539 --> 00:57:17.699
So unfortunately, the Beau Moscow is out.

829
00:57:17.760 --> 00:57:18.900
Yeah, yeah.

830
00:57:18.960 --> 00:57:22.739
I have to say that there is Chekhov's brain as well.

831
00:57:24.659 --> 00:57:32.940
Like I was just spending, because it's been a while since I've seen this, but I was spending the entire kind of last episode and half going.

832
00:57:33.000 --> 00:57:38.099
So when does the Breen just pull a gun and kill someone and of course we're not disappointed.

833
00:57:38.340 --> 00:57:44.400
Which I think that's what I think makes a bit of a mockery of when people said when the Broom was pulled in in series 7.

834
00:57:44.460 --> 00:57:45.659
Well, where they come from?

835
00:57:45.719 --> 00:57:47.880
And actually, they're in return to grace in series four.

836
00:57:47.940 --> 00:57:48.420
They in this.

837
00:57:48.480 --> 00:57:49.800
They make a couple of appearances.

838
00:57:49.860 --> 00:57:51.420
Oh, here we go.

839
00:57:51.480 --> 00:57:54.719
They're shooting the beams into the wormhole. into the wormhole.

840
00:57:54.780 --> 00:57:55.619
The thing explodes.

841
00:57:55.679 --> 00:57:57.900
Gosh, that guy doesn't seem very disturbed.

842
00:57:57.960 --> 00:57:59.039
I guess it's an engineer.

843
00:57:59.159 --> 00:57:59.699
That looks great.

844
00:57:59.820 --> 00:58:01.500
There you go.

845
00:58:01.559 --> 00:58:03.059
There's some special effects for me.

846
00:58:03.119 --> 00:58:04.679
Oh, no.

847
00:58:04.739 --> 00:58:07.079
Someone sabotaged the emitter array.

848
00:58:07.139 --> 00:58:07.860
Yep.

849
00:58:07.920 --> 00:58:09.300
Who could that have been, do you think?

850
00:58:09.360 --> 00:58:11.400
And do you know what I love at the end of this?

851
00:58:11.460 --> 00:58:12.840
They did the best of both worlds things.

852
00:58:12.900 --> 00:58:15.059
That big dramatic sting of music at the end.

853
00:58:15.179 --> 00:58:17.159
Yeah, here we go.

854
00:58:17.219 --> 00:58:18.539
Here we go.

855
00:58:18.599 --> 00:58:21.360
This is our big, that's a great shot, isn't it?

856
00:58:21.420 --> 00:58:24.119
Well, because then it just feels like that's it.

857
00:58:24.179 --> 00:58:25.500
Things are changed forever.

858
00:58:25.559 --> 00:58:26.760
Yeah.

859
00:58:26.820 --> 00:58:32.280
Yeah, no, it's a big proper thing and it's the sort of thing they're not just going to walk back.

860
00:58:32.340 --> 00:58:36.119
It's like something big is happening.

861
00:58:36.179 --> 00:58:38.639
We know how this show works now.

862
00:58:38.760 --> 00:58:42.659
And so it's not going to be okay in like next week's episode.

863
00:58:42.719 --> 00:58:49.739
And it's one of the few times as well that they say to the orchestra, right, come on, we want a big dramatic sting.

864
00:58:49.800 --> 00:58:50.940
It's like, do it done.

865
00:58:51.000 --> 00:58:52.980
Dun, dun, dun, dun.

866
00:58:53.039 --> 00:58:54.119
You know what I mean?

867
00:58:54.179 --> 00:58:58.679
I mean, it's still fairly terrible music this week and I still get...

868
00:58:58.739 --> 00:59:16.199
I must have told you there was a, we got a Nintendo Wii, and there was a Star Trek game with it, and I'm pretty sure that all of the music for it was procedurally generated, like it was just written by a computer, and at 90 Star Trek music, like it just captured it absolutely perfectly.

869
00:59:16.800 --> 00:59:25.019
And I still kind of think that even with that big sting, it was still pretty wallpapery, the music.

870
00:59:25.079 --> 00:59:28.019
And nowhere near as good as what we got in Scorpion.

871
00:59:29.519 --> 00:59:31.079
So great.

872
00:59:32.219 --> 00:59:35.639
I still think that's a fabulous cliffhanger, though.

873
00:59:35.760 --> 00:59:40.380
Because when I 1st saw this, this was when, this is how old I am.

874
00:59:40.500 --> 00:59:47.460
This is when the VHSs were coming out with 2 stories, 2 episodes per VHS.

875
00:59:47.519 --> 00:59:48.780
I remember this very well.

876
00:59:48.840 --> 00:59:50.280
And I got this one.

877
00:59:50.340 --> 00:59:55.679
It was for the uniform, amazing Cisco episode, melodramatic as hell.

878
00:59:55.739 --> 00:59:57.420
And then in Purgatory Shadow.

879
00:59:57.480 --> 00:59:59.519
I was like, great, big arc episode.

880
00:59:59.579 --> 01:00:00.900
And then it ended with that.

881
01:00:00.960 --> 01:00:02.880
All those shit's pouring out of a wormhole.

882
01:00:02.940 --> 01:00:07.260
I looked at my mother and I went, Have I got away a month to see the end of this?

883
01:00:08.280 --> 01:00:13.260
I was there at W8 Smith's the day that that next video came out.

884
01:00:13.500 --> 01:00:19.380
I pulled a sickie, I seemed to remember, and I was there at 9 o'clock to grab the VHS so I could get home and we could watch it together.

885
01:00:19.500 --> 01:00:20.579
Brilliant.

886
01:00:21.599 --> 01:00:23.760
All right, so what do you think?

887
01:00:23.820 --> 01:00:24.960
start again?

888
01:00:25.019 --> 01:00:26.460
After that, Cliffhanger.

889
01:00:26.519 --> 01:00:27.300
I am ready to go.

890
01:00:27.420 --> 01:00:30.659
Okay, yeah, we won't make you wait a month this time.

891
01:00:30.719 --> 01:00:32.519
All right, I'm going to count you in.

892
01:00:32.579 --> 01:00:38.400
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

893
01:00:39.360 --> 01:00:51.179
I'll just say something for the, um, the hideously melodramatic titles of this 2 parter in Purgatory Shadow and buy Inferno's Light.

894
01:00:51.239 --> 01:00:53.699
Yeah, it's really full on, isn't it?

895
01:00:53.760 --> 01:00:57.960
Because it really doesn't have anything to do with anything that's actually going on.

896
01:00:59.340 --> 01:01:03.539
The only shadows in that 1st episode are in that Dominion prison.

897
01:01:03.659 --> 01:01:04.860
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

898
01:01:04.920 --> 01:01:09.420
Oh, and the usual ones are on the station as well, because there's quite nice lighting here.

899
01:01:12.480 --> 01:01:13.079
Yes.

900
01:01:13.139 --> 01:01:16.260
So we have to catch up with everybody now, don't we?

901
01:01:16.320 --> 01:01:17.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

902
01:01:17.820 --> 01:01:33.119
So we did have, um, we did have, uh, um, Ducart kind of warning us that something is going to happen big at the end as well, the things are going to change on Cardassia thing that he gives to.

903
01:01:33.179 --> 01:01:33.480
Yeah.

904
01:01:33.539 --> 01:01:35.519
I do like his line as well.

905
01:01:35.579 --> 01:01:37.320
I don't have time to explain, all right?

906
01:01:37.380 --> 01:01:37.980
You're going.

907
01:01:38.039 --> 01:01:44.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. that's pretty good I'm not allowed to drop this twist until episode two.

908
01:01:44.639 --> 01:01:49.500
That set could have been so much more boring than it is.

909
01:01:49.559 --> 01:01:50.699
It really is good.

910
01:01:50.760 --> 01:01:54.539
The set where the ring is. you know, where the fights take place.

911
01:01:54.599 --> 01:01:57.780
And, you know, they mat in those windows and stuff above it.

912
01:01:57.780 --> 01:01:59.699
And they do give it a sense of scale.

913
01:01:59.760 --> 01:02:05.579
It is, like, it seems like it's weirdly in the corner of a room, but I think it looks really good.

914
01:02:05.639 --> 01:02:07.139
It could have been...

915
01:02:07.199 --> 01:02:12.420
I like the sort of upturned jam jars that they've got with lights in them going all around the circle, you know?

916
01:02:12.539 --> 01:02:13.320
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

917
01:02:13.380 --> 01:02:14.340
I think it looks really good.

918
01:02:14.400 --> 01:02:19.800
And that thing too, like you hit the, you hit the thing to say that you want to keep going.

919
01:02:19.860 --> 01:02:26.039
That's really good because it makes Wharf's decision much more palpable each time.

920
01:02:26.099 --> 01:02:28.260
It's not just that he's struggling to get up.

921
01:02:28.320 --> 01:02:30.420
It's like he's getting the shit beaten out of him.

922
01:02:30.480 --> 01:02:34.920
Then he presses the button to indicate that he wants to keep going, whether he can do it or not.

923
01:02:34.980 --> 01:02:36.960
It's very clever, I think.

924
01:02:37.019 --> 01:02:41.340
And may I say, he's been through some shit, but he shows some insurance in this episode.

925
01:02:42.000 --> 01:02:45.719
May I regale you with a quote from Robert Hewitt Wolves?

926
01:02:45.780 --> 01:02:46.440
Yes, please.

927
01:02:46.500 --> 01:02:49.500
I have something to say about the twist, which is about to hear.

928
01:02:49.559 --> 01:02:56.340
And that is the Dominion ships have come pouring through the wormhole and they're about to head off to Cardassia with Goldjakar.

929
01:02:56.400 --> 01:02:57.599
Yeah, yeah.

930
01:02:57.659 --> 01:03:07.079
And uh, Robert Hewitt Wolf says that this was based on a depiction of the economically depressed, uh, sorry, I'll start that again.

931
01:03:07.139 --> 01:03:14.159
He based an depiction of an economically depressed Cardassia on the brink of cultural collapse on the Weimar?

932
01:03:14.579 --> 01:03:15.059
Weimar.

933
01:03:15.119 --> 01:03:16.199
Thank you.

934
01:03:16.260 --> 01:03:18.719
The government of Germany between the 2 world wars.

935
01:03:18.780 --> 01:03:34.920
The Dominion's takeover of the Kardashian Union was likewise inspired by the Angelus, where the Austrian National Socialist Party, after gaining control of that country's government invited Nazi Germany to send in their military forces and effectively absorbed the country.

936
01:03:34.980 --> 01:03:37.980
Yeah, you might remember that from the sound of music.

937
01:03:38.039 --> 01:03:40.920
So, seriously.

938
01:03:40.980 --> 01:03:42.659
It does get a mention.

939
01:03:42.719 --> 01:03:48.539
So, you know, that's the thing about the politics here too.

940
01:03:48.599 --> 01:03:52.619
Like we had very sort of Cold War politics, didn't we, in original Star Trek?

941
01:03:52.679 --> 01:03:57.420
Here they kind of cherry pick around things that are happening in the middle of the 20th century.

942
01:03:57.480 --> 01:04:03.300
And, you know, Cardassia and Bajor could be any number of different kind of things.

943
01:04:03.360 --> 01:04:09.119
And I think that's really interesting and it does give it a kind of texture and a little bit of sort of reality.

944
01:04:09.179 --> 01:04:11.099
It's why it touches home for a lot of viewers.

945
01:04:11.159 --> 01:04:19.260
You know, I know there are Star Trek fans that have suffered in conflicts that have found some of the subjects they probe into quite moving.

946
01:04:19.619 --> 01:04:21.000
Yeah.

947
01:04:21.119 --> 01:04:39.719
So what I think is great, what I think is really good is we just had an incredible cliffhanger, which is that visual cliffhanger, and then we find out what it means, and we go into the opening credits, like, this is a much bigger deal than just a whole bunch of ships have appeared.

948
01:04:40.019 --> 01:04:43.619
What I was expecting was a, you know, a big battle now.

949
01:04:43.679 --> 01:04:47.820
Yeah, yeah, you know, station versus ships that we got in Way of the Warrior.

950
01:04:47.880 --> 01:04:50.820
And I think when I was younger, I was a little bit disappointed.

951
01:04:50.820 --> 01:05:02.519
As an adult, I think this is far more, especially when you've got your cart delivering the information and saying lines like, you and me on the same side, major, it never felt quite right, did it?

952
01:05:04.199 --> 01:05:11.340
I think too, one of the great things he said, we'll see this at the end of the episode because Cisco will get to speak to him.

953
01:05:11.400 --> 01:05:27.840
And because Cisco knows him, it does add a little bit of a thing because Cisco has sort of personal contempt for him and isn't afraid to express that even though he's, you know, a high-ranking member of the Cardassian government all of a sudden.

954
01:05:27.840 --> 01:05:36.059
Ira Bear is quoted, heroes saying, Dukat is a self-deluded, opportunistic, egomaniacal sadist.

955
01:05:36.119 --> 01:05:39.300
In other words, he is the Richard Nixon of Deep Space Mind.

956
01:05:39.360 --> 01:05:40.800
He'll...

957
01:05:40.860 --> 01:05:55.260
He will do whatever it takes to come out on top. including selling out his own people because the decision he makes now is what wipes out 100s of 1000000s of Cardassians in the last episode.

958
01:05:55.320 --> 01:05:56.159
Yeah.

959
01:05:56.219 --> 01:05:57.300
What is it?

960
01:05:57.360 --> 01:06:03.719
Damar says, the dominion of invaded Kardashia without firing a single shot.

961
01:06:03.719 --> 01:06:06.539
Because I just start using them as cannon fodder.

962
01:06:06.599 --> 01:06:07.440
Yeah.

963
01:06:07.500 --> 01:06:19.739
Yeah, and in fact, that's what I think is a makes him turning into sort of crazed par wraith, you know, like science fiction guy, a little bit disappointing at the end.

964
01:06:19.800 --> 01:06:24.480
It's a little bit too crap for someone who's been a lot more interesting, I think, than that.

965
01:06:24.539 --> 01:06:27.900
There's the brain sitting there in the foreground of the shot.

966
01:06:27.960 --> 01:06:31.619
Chekhov's brain, just waiting to kill someone at some point.

967
01:06:32.039 --> 01:06:34.199
Sassy Romulan.

968
01:06:34.260 --> 01:06:35.579
She gets that line later, doesn't she?

969
01:06:35.639 --> 01:06:37.440
Where she goes, my people have a saying.

970
01:06:37.559 --> 01:06:39.239
Never turn your back on a breed.

971
01:06:42.179 --> 01:06:45.960
Now, I am slightly claustrophobic myself.

972
01:06:46.019 --> 01:06:48.539
I can't really do berry contained spaces.

973
01:06:48.599 --> 01:06:51.480
And so I empathise with Garrett completely.

974
01:06:51.539 --> 01:06:59.940
Now, Andy Robinson is quoted as saying they genuinely shoved him in a very tight space, so there was no acting involved in these scenes whatsoever.

975
01:07:00.059 --> 01:07:03.960
Well, in fact, I really like the physicality too.

976
01:07:04.019 --> 01:07:10.860
Like the fact that we see quite often that you've got that thing that you pry the small panel off with.

977
01:07:10.920 --> 01:07:17.460
You reach in there and then you bring out the big panel and there's a whole, like we know what's required.

978
01:07:17.519 --> 01:07:23.760
We know how this is sort of set up and we kind of know what the stakes are if he's discovered.

979
01:07:23.880 --> 01:07:27.539
But I just think it's all just very well established, how this all works.

980
01:07:27.960 --> 01:07:31.079
Do you know how this was originally conceived?

981
01:07:31.139 --> 01:07:34.679
This was conceived as they wanted to do the Great Escape.

982
01:07:34.739 --> 01:07:38.940
So they wanted characters in prison trying to get out.

983
01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:47.099
And originally it was a Michael Eddington story until our bear turned around and he went, I don't think anybody is convinced that Michael Eddington is a good guy.

984
01:07:47.159 --> 01:07:48.900
So I'm not sure we can do it.

985
01:07:48.960 --> 01:07:50.519
And so they went down this room.

986
01:07:50.579 --> 01:07:55.139
And you're right, there is that kind of 2 pronged attempt to escape from this.

987
01:07:55.199 --> 01:07:57.360
It is a very physical show this.

988
01:07:57.420 --> 01:07:59.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

989
01:07:59.159 --> 01:08:00.659
Yeah, you see that shot?

990
01:08:00.719 --> 01:08:10.920
like the establishing shot with that crowd of people, the crowd of, um, of, Jem'Hadar hanging around there and other prisoners and stuff.

991
01:08:10.980 --> 01:08:12.300
I love this world, isn't it?

992
01:08:12.360 --> 01:08:15.420
All the Cardassians looking at each other like, what is he saying?

993
01:08:15.480 --> 01:08:18.060
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's time for you to go home.

994
01:08:18.359 --> 01:08:23.399
He says, I hope you enjoy your time as Dominion citizens or something like that.

995
01:08:23.520 --> 01:08:26.579
Congratulations on your new status, he says.

996
01:08:26.699 --> 01:08:33.659
There you go That Jemhadar's makeup, not Jemhadar, the vort is makeup is really shit.

997
01:08:33.899 --> 01:08:36.180
It's so bad.

998
01:08:36.239 --> 01:08:41.880
And you know, whilst I will always prefer to see Jeffrey Coons because he's brilliant.

999
01:08:41.939 --> 01:08:43.979
I think this guy does pretty well.

1000
01:08:44.039 --> 01:08:46.140
He's still very camp and a bit silly, isn't he?

1001
01:08:46.199 --> 01:08:48.720
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but he does look super weird.

1002
01:08:48.779 --> 01:08:52.680
I think I'm not sure the makeup is really working for some reason.

1003
01:08:52.800 --> 01:08:56.640
I do like it's everyone except and these scenes too.

1004
01:08:56.699 --> 01:08:59.579
So these scenes where he's on the big screen.

1005
01:08:59.640 --> 01:09:01.500
And look at that city.

1006
01:09:01.560 --> 01:09:04.739
Like, don't you think, like, it looks like a European city?

1007
01:09:04.800 --> 01:09:11.399
There's a river running through the middle of it and a big old bridge and then we've got this.

1008
01:09:11.939 --> 01:09:21.779
We've got those sort of stupid spike things, you know, heading into the sky, which kind of, I don't know, they're reminiscent of the pylons on Deep Space 9.

1009
01:09:21.840 --> 01:09:22.380
Is that it?

1010
01:09:22.680 --> 01:09:25.380
Oh, it's Cardassian architecture?

1011
01:09:25.439 --> 01:09:25.979
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1012
01:09:26.039 --> 01:09:26.760
I just love.

1013
01:09:26.819 --> 01:09:28.619
I just love how this is working on so many levels.

1014
01:09:28.739 --> 01:09:29.760
That camera pulled back there.

1015
01:09:29.819 --> 01:09:31.500
I was giving this speech, right?

1016
01:09:31.560 --> 01:09:35.520
And you've got Kira giving him death eyes because of all their history.

1017
01:09:35.579 --> 01:09:38.819
You got Cisco like, I should have killed him all those times.

1018
01:09:38.819 --> 01:09:42.960
And then you've got the Bashir changeling, just giving his evil smile in the background.

1019
01:09:43.020 --> 01:09:45.779
I'm like, there's a lot going on here, isn't it?

1020
01:09:45.840 --> 01:09:46.800
Yeah, yeah.

1021
01:09:48.239 --> 01:09:49.560
Yeah.

1022
01:09:49.560 --> 01:10:06.779
Well, I just think I think the decision to have the Dominion come into the alpha quadrant and initially take a political approach and try and absorb just like the Federation, absorb in all of the great powers was such a savvy move.

1023
01:10:06.840 --> 01:10:13.439
Well, I think, you know, the word dominion, you know, and federation, they're both just sort of abstract English nouns.

1024
01:10:13.500 --> 01:10:22.560
Federation is like a group of people who have joined together with a treaty, a dominion is something that's ruled by someone.

1025
01:10:22.619 --> 01:10:25.380
Dominion sounds a bit more sinister, does it?

1026
01:10:25.500 --> 01:10:26.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1027
01:10:26.399 --> 01:10:27.239
I think it's really good.

1028
01:10:27.300 --> 01:10:28.739
But you know what it does?

1029
01:10:28.859 --> 01:10:41.699
It leads to those scenes with Kai Winn, in the cars, where they're trying to convince the Bajorans to come in, you know, and you've got to win and win and Weyune squaring up to each other.

1030
01:10:41.760 --> 01:10:44.880
Oh, look at Julian looking sinister.

1031
01:10:45.539 --> 01:10:48.420
Time for another round of blood screenings.

1032
01:10:48.479 --> 01:10:53.640
He does look super handsome in prison, doesn't he, where he's roughed up a bit and he's got a little bit of a bit.

1033
01:10:53.699 --> 01:10:57.119
I mean, I think sort of latter-day Bashir is very funny.

1034
01:10:57.180 --> 01:11:01.739
Yeah, yeah, no, he is. sort of youthful sort of way.

1035
01:11:01.800 --> 01:11:03.239
Lovely olive skin he's got.

1036
01:11:03.300 --> 01:11:05.939
Oh, I do like the fact that he's the one that says as well.

1037
01:11:06.300 --> 01:11:07.920
Well, look, we've got to change the infiltrator.

1038
01:11:07.979 --> 01:11:08.399
I agree.

1039
01:11:08.460 --> 01:11:09.659
About to around the tests.

1040
01:11:10.020 --> 01:11:11.939
Yeah, and what does he do?

1041
01:11:12.000 --> 01:11:14.520
He just sort of fakes a test or fucks it up or something like that.

1042
01:11:14.579 --> 01:11:17.039
Do we find out that they can pass the test?

1043
01:11:17.159 --> 01:11:20.939
They can absorb some blood and pass the test?

1044
01:11:21.000 --> 01:11:31.319
Ever since Joseph Sisco cut himself off on that knife in the kitchen when they're trying to force him to do the test and he goes, look, they're only one test that's smart man and can't think his way around.

1045
01:11:31.380 --> 01:11:35.460
I think we've acknowledged, yeah, they can...

1046
01:11:35.520 --> 01:11:35.880
Yeah.

1047
01:11:35.880 --> 01:11:36.300
Yeah.

1048
01:11:36.359 --> 01:11:41.159
And we know that they can now in latter day Star Trek, I think.

1049
01:11:41.220 --> 01:11:43.920
I love his I love this.

1050
01:11:43.979 --> 01:11:52.380
It's like, um, you know, this would have been a perfect kind of torture chamber with the occasional electric shocks and things.

1051
01:11:52.439 --> 01:11:54.060
It's pretty good.

1052
01:11:54.960 --> 01:11:57.420
Random electric shucks.

1053
01:11:57.479 --> 01:12:03.359
And he's playing funny initially, and then it only becomes clear how serious he is.

1054
01:12:03.420 --> 01:12:05.159
And I'm not sure that I buy.

1055
01:12:05.220 --> 01:12:11.039
There's a very, very long conversation he has with himself, which is sort of cheesy and not particularly realistic.

1056
01:12:11.100 --> 01:12:12.840
No, that's right.

1057
01:12:12.899 --> 01:12:14.460
Only on TV.

1058
01:12:14.520 --> 01:12:16.560
Usually in soap operas, in fact.

1059
01:12:16.619 --> 01:12:17.340
Yeah, yeah.

1060
01:12:17.399 --> 01:12:18.000
Yeah.

1061
01:12:18.060 --> 01:12:19.560
And I mean, it does what it does.

1062
01:12:19.619 --> 01:12:24.960
It's like, you know, here's what he's thinking and it does it sort of fairly efficiently, which is why they resort to it, I think.

1063
01:12:25.020 --> 01:12:29.220
And it gives Andrew Robinson some acting opportunities as well.

1064
01:12:29.880 --> 01:12:40.439
I think I just, I do want to point out the plot inconsistency of the Jem'Hadar leaving the runabout, in orbit, outside the facility.

1065
01:12:40.439 --> 01:12:42.180
Yeah, they should.

1066
01:12:42.180 --> 01:12:44.039
And they enabled it, all to escape.

1067
01:12:44.100 --> 01:12:45.180
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1068
01:12:45.239 --> 01:12:56.520
And the way that DS9 gloriously brings that up next season where they accuse Julian Bashira being a Dominion spy because, oh, really?

1069
01:12:56.579 --> 01:13:00.300
They just happened to leave that runabout in orbit outside the...

1070
01:13:00.300 --> 01:13:03.300
They've looked over and have gone, oh, I can't believe we did that.

1071
01:13:03.359 --> 01:13:04.319
We got to bring that up again.

1072
01:13:04.380 --> 01:13:05.520
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1073
01:13:05.579 --> 01:13:12.539
Well, that's the thing. that's the thing that they do They're responding to what they do. and they're watching it the way that, you know, fans watch it.

1074
01:13:12.600 --> 01:13:14.399
It's how Russell approached Doctor Who.

1075
01:13:14.460 --> 01:13:22.560
You know, like he saw things in the show that he didn't necessarily realise he was putting in there and then responded to it.

1076
01:13:22.619 --> 01:13:27.539
And that's what, you know, Ronald D. Moore in particular, but clearly Ira Bear, too.

1077
01:13:27.600 --> 01:13:29.880
That's how they, you know, write.

1078
01:13:29.939 --> 01:13:31.079
That's how they make TV.

1079
01:13:31.140 --> 01:13:31.979
It's so good.

1080
01:13:32.039 --> 01:13:32.939
So good.

1081
01:13:33.239 --> 01:13:35.279
I really love.

1082
01:13:35.279 --> 01:13:37.199
Oh, hang on a minute.

1083
01:13:37.260 --> 01:13:40.800
Sorry, I was about to say what I really love, but I'm so entranced by the lighting.

1084
01:13:40.859 --> 01:13:45.600
I don't usually get to say complimentary things about how dramatically lit these things are.

1085
01:13:45.659 --> 01:13:48.180
Deep say signs usually not too bad.

1086
01:13:48.239 --> 01:13:51.180
And this, I think, you know, they bring it down, don't they?

1087
01:13:51.239 --> 01:13:55.439
It's not so much the flat sort of hotel lighting. exactly.

1088
01:13:56.039 --> 01:13:56.460
Voyager.

1089
01:13:56.520 --> 01:14:02.220
But those sort of decorative, whatever the fuck they are, you know, the diagonal pipes.

1090
01:14:02.279 --> 01:14:03.779
Like they look really good.

1091
01:14:03.840 --> 01:14:06.000
They make the shot really interesting.

1092
01:14:06.119 --> 01:14:07.380
Is this Beaumont as well?

1093
01:14:07.560 --> 01:14:10.439
No, this is someone else?

1094
01:14:10.500 --> 01:14:12.840
Lando, I think this is...

1095
01:14:12.899 --> 01:14:24.180
It's still, like, I think the directors that they had, the established directors that were doing the quieter episodes, responded really well later on when they were actually given some exciting stuff to shoot.

1096
01:14:24.239 --> 01:14:25.859
I want to talk about Wolf.

1097
01:14:26.100 --> 01:14:26.880
Okay?

1098
01:14:26.939 --> 01:14:37.500
Because I think Wolf came onto DS9 and it, whilst he got some good stuff in series four, I never forget him, you know, smoking away on that cigar in Arman Bashir and things like that.

1099
01:14:37.560 --> 01:14:40.619
Um, I think it did take him a little while to settle.

1100
01:14:40.680 --> 01:14:44.819
I think come series 5 after Let He, who is without sin.

1101
01:14:44.880 --> 01:14:52.859
They've really learned how to write him for this show now, a bit more complex with relationships with people.

1102
01:14:52.920 --> 01:14:57.300
And I just think he comes across, like you said, he's often written as the character that's wrong.

1103
01:14:57.359 --> 01:14:59.100
And that is still often the case.

1104
01:14:59.159 --> 01:14:59.819
Yeah.

1105
01:14:59.880 --> 01:15:05.699
I just think that he's written for so much better here than he was. back in his TNG days.

1106
01:15:05.760 --> 01:15:07.079
Yeah, yeah.

1107
01:15:07.140 --> 01:15:21.300
Well, because it's a different show, you know, it's a different type of show, and it's a show where fundamentally as we saw, you know, last time people are their jobs and there's not, there's often not a lot more to it than that.

1108
01:15:21.359 --> 01:15:24.779
And so here he gets scope to do much more interesting things, I think.

1109
01:15:25.079 --> 01:15:29.520
I think maybe maybe in DS 9 people are their jobs and their relationships.

1110
01:15:29.640 --> 01:15:31.800
Well, I think their relationship's more than that.

1111
01:15:31.859 --> 01:15:33.239
I think the jobs are less important.

1112
01:15:33.300 --> 01:15:36.300
I mean, still, it's Constable Odo made a major Kira.

1113
01:15:36.359 --> 01:15:40.739
You know, like they have names that are their jobs, but still, you know.

1114
01:15:40.979 --> 01:15:52.619
I just, I love the fact that he, I think he would continue to fight anyway, because that's his, that's his thing, you know, and he's a man of well and he, he would never turn away from a fight.

1115
01:15:52.739 --> 01:16:02.579
But the fact that he allows himself to be beaten to essentially a bloody pulp by the end of the episode to give Garak time to get them onto the runabout.

1116
01:16:02.640 --> 01:16:05.340
I just think he comes across so well in this.

1117
01:16:05.340 --> 01:16:06.659
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1118
01:16:06.720 --> 01:16:07.859
And he looks great at the end.

1119
01:16:07.920 --> 01:16:15.420
There is that moment where the 2 of them again paying off the scene from episode one.

1120
01:16:15.479 --> 01:16:18.060
Just look at each other and say, well done.

1121
01:16:18.119 --> 01:16:21.359
And it's like it's there's, it's a no bullshit thing.

1122
01:16:21.420 --> 01:16:23.520
Like it feels really real.

1123
01:16:23.579 --> 01:16:28.500
I thought it was a really a really well-done scene in a very kind of minor way.

1124
01:16:28.560 --> 01:16:32.220
Like there wasn't, you know, it's not flashy or anything, but it just does the job.

1125
01:16:32.279 --> 01:16:33.119
I think it was really good.

1126
01:16:33.479 --> 01:16:35.939
I did notice in this scene.

1127
01:16:36.779 --> 01:16:39.960
No, I think this is interesting, isn't it?

1128
01:16:40.020 --> 01:16:42.239
Because she hates Ducant.

1129
01:16:42.300 --> 01:16:43.859
But Zial doesn't.

1130
01:16:43.920 --> 01:16:49.800
Um, And like this scene, I'm not quite sure what's happening.

1131
01:16:49.859 --> 01:16:51.479
I think it's really good.

1132
01:16:51.539 --> 01:16:55.199
Like, she just gets to make a moral claim.

1133
01:16:55.260 --> 01:17:03.899
And I think that claim is right, you know, you can't judge people by what they think or say, but only what they do.

1134
01:17:03.960 --> 01:17:08.340
Um, And like her response is really good.

1135
01:17:08.399 --> 01:17:10.079
Like she doesn't quite know what to think of it.

1136
01:17:10.140 --> 01:17:12.659
Like she goes a bit wide-eyed and stuff, you know.

1137
01:17:12.720 --> 01:17:15.779
I like it when she says, you think my father's evil?

1138
01:17:15.840 --> 01:17:16.859
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1139
01:17:16.920 --> 01:17:18.779
You know, and Kira's close to her.

1140
01:17:18.840 --> 01:17:20.520
So she knows she's got to play this sensitively.

1141
01:17:20.579 --> 01:17:21.840
She can't lie.

1142
01:17:21.840 --> 01:17:39.359
Brilliantly, in sons and daughters, in the ark, in seriously, when, uh, Siao comes back to the station, and Kira and Dukat are both looking after it, and she started to play them as like parents, and then, and that whole relationship is so interesting.

1143
01:17:39.420 --> 01:17:45.659
And then Kira suddenly looks herself in the mirror when Dekout's given her gifts going, what the hell am I doing?

1144
01:17:45.720 --> 01:17:46.739
She actually says it out loud.

1145
01:17:46.800 --> 01:17:48.479
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

1146
01:17:48.539 --> 01:17:49.140
I remember that.

1147
01:17:49.920 --> 01:17:53.939
Oh, here's oh, yes, Robert O'Reilly.

1148
01:17:53.939 --> 01:17:55.920
He's bad.

1149
01:17:55.979 --> 01:18:01.020
He's so good Essentially, he is only here.

1150
01:18:01.079 --> 01:18:07.920
One to tie up the Klingon plot in a very anticlimactic speech of just going, all right, well, Dominion's a bigger threat than us.

1151
01:18:07.979 --> 01:18:09.060
So that's it.

1152
01:18:09.180 --> 01:18:21.600
But I mean, it was kind of because it was revealed that, um, the, you know, that the changelings were behind the war.

1153
01:18:21.779 --> 01:18:23.399
Wasn't it?

1154
01:18:23.520 --> 01:18:24.479
Yeah, yeah.

1155
01:18:24.539 --> 01:18:25.439
The clue one more.

1156
01:18:25.500 --> 01:18:25.979
Yeah, absolutely.

1157
01:18:26.039 --> 01:18:26.699
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1158
01:18:26.760 --> 01:18:29.699
Martox whispering in Garon's ear the whole time.

1159
01:18:29.760 --> 01:18:30.420
Yeah, yeah.

1160
01:18:30.420 --> 01:18:39.479
And then Garon's the one over, what I loved about that was, remember when I watched it and I'm going, Jesus, Garon's over the top in Way of the Warrior in a brilliant way, don't get me wrong, in a very watchable way.

1161
01:18:39.539 --> 01:18:43.380
And then when they revealed it was a changer, I'm like, okay, that's why he's out of character.

1162
01:18:43.439 --> 01:18:45.779
Then then when they revealed he wasn't a changing.

1163
01:18:45.840 --> 01:18:48.720
Well, he's just a terrible he's a terrible ham then, isn't he?

1164
01:18:51.840 --> 01:18:53.220
I love Gowron.

1165
01:18:53.279 --> 01:18:55.079
Yeah, he's great. isn't he?

1166
01:18:55.199 --> 01:18:57.960
Just remember him being introduced.

1167
01:18:58.020 --> 01:19:06.300
You know, and he was sort of so weird and leering, and you had the choice between Durant, who we knew, was responsible for Worf's this commendation.

1168
01:19:06.359 --> 01:19:11.159
And then we had Garon, who just looked like this at her weird boggle eyes. skullhead guy.

1169
01:19:11.220 --> 01:19:14.640
And it's kind of like, God, what if he becomes leader of the Klingon Empire?

1170
01:19:14.699 --> 01:19:15.420
It's so good.

1171
01:19:15.479 --> 01:19:22.920
If you're going to do that whole figurehead of an entire planet, then give them some personality, you know?

1172
01:19:22.979 --> 01:19:23.939
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1173
01:19:24.000 --> 01:19:27.899
No, he ends up being great in next gen as well as here.

1174
01:19:28.140 --> 01:19:30.000
Oh, I love all this.

1175
01:19:30.060 --> 01:19:32.340
Look, but she is doing something sinister in the runabout.

1176
01:19:32.399 --> 01:19:33.300
Yeah.

1177
01:19:33.300 --> 01:19:39.779
Whilst all this mad sort of galactic politicking is going on, he's behind the scenes doing his little machinations.

1178
01:19:39.840 --> 01:19:49.560
So this is introducing his absurd plot, and that was just that quiet wordless scene, which isn't explained, but reminds us to be suspicious of him.

1179
01:19:49.619 --> 01:19:55.680
You know what, Bill, I love, though, is where he's knocked out all the ensigns on the runabout and he's doing the woman's voice.

1180
01:19:55.800 --> 01:19:56.939
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1181
01:19:57.000 --> 01:19:57.539
It's great.

1182
01:19:57.600 --> 01:19:59.039
It's super weird.

1183
01:19:59.100 --> 01:20:01.020
Like, it's properly weird.

1184
01:20:01.079 --> 01:20:03.300
And, of course, he killed them all.

1185
01:20:03.359 --> 01:20:04.380
He hasn't knocked them out.

1186
01:20:04.439 --> 01:20:09.479
He's killed all of them because otherwise it wouldn't be okay for us to blow up the ship, right?

1187
01:20:09.539 --> 01:20:11.399
So they're all dead.

1188
01:20:11.520 --> 01:20:12.539
Like, I think that's pretty great.

1189
01:20:12.600 --> 01:20:19.680
This might say something about me, you know, but I find Warf weirdly hot when he's having all these fights.

1190
01:20:19.739 --> 01:20:20.819
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1191
01:20:21.239 --> 01:20:23.159
When they're beating the shit out of him.

1192
01:20:23.220 --> 01:20:24.420
I find it very hot.

1193
01:20:24.479 --> 01:20:25.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1194
01:20:26.100 --> 01:20:27.899
What's that all about?

1195
01:20:29.579 --> 01:20:32.880
I love the ribs thing.

1196
01:20:32.939 --> 01:20:34.619
Like, I love Julian.

1197
01:20:34.680 --> 01:20:36.539
Like this song, the song.

1198
01:20:36.600 --> 01:20:38.460
This is really fun.

1199
01:20:38.520 --> 01:20:39.659
This thing.

1200
01:20:39.720 --> 01:20:40.979
It's like a cheesy thing.

1201
01:20:41.039 --> 01:20:42.659
You know, they all write songs of us.

1202
01:20:42.720 --> 01:20:44.460
So I think, does Martoc say that?

1203
01:20:44.460 --> 01:20:48.119
And it's kind of like, yes, you know, we'll sing a song about this.

1204
01:20:48.119 --> 01:20:58.020
And then you can be in the song and you'll be the brave doctor who, um, um, you know, patches him up and sends him back into battle.

1205
01:20:58.020 --> 01:21:09.659
And and Garrett goes, actually, um, I don't want to be the Cardassian, who kind of shat himself and didn't do anything in this song.

1206
01:21:09.720 --> 01:21:13.619
So I'll go back and like do the thing, which I think is really good.

1207
01:21:13.680 --> 01:21:16.439
So this is the monologue, which is where we are now.

1208
01:21:16.560 --> 01:21:17.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1209
01:21:17.699 --> 01:21:21.899
What I will say is, um, Ira Bear and Robert Hewitt Wolf.

1210
01:21:21.960 --> 01:21:29.880
Now, they've been writing together now for 3 years since season 3 and they're doing all the biggies, improbable cause, the dice cast, Way of the Warrior.

1211
01:21:29.939 --> 01:21:32.220
They're doing all the big sort of 2 parters.

1212
01:21:32.279 --> 01:21:38.460
And Ira Bear said, at this point, we were basically so in tune and we knew these characters so well.

1213
01:21:38.520 --> 01:21:40.800
We'd come in and we would bash out a whole act a day.

1214
01:21:40.859 --> 01:21:43.979
I think that's quite fast in television terms.

1215
01:21:44.039 --> 01:21:46.199
Do you want to hear something funny?

1216
01:21:46.260 --> 01:21:50.579
This was the 1st episode where Robert Hewitt Wolf.

1217
01:21:50.640 --> 01:21:58.079
Sorry, this was the 2nd episode where Robert Hewitt Wolf got his name first, and Ira Bear was second. because Ira Bear was the older experienced writer.

1218
01:21:58.140 --> 01:22:00.479
Robert Hewitt was quite a young man.

1219
01:22:00.539 --> 01:22:02.399
He was a young sort of whippersnapper.

1220
01:22:02.460 --> 01:22:04.800
And Arabia is like, you know, how dare you?

1221
01:22:04.859 --> 01:22:08.100
you know, like you, you young, you petuous youth, you know.

1222
01:22:08.159 --> 01:22:09.600
And then, of course, he did it.

1223
01:22:09.659 --> 01:22:13.619
He said, fine. will every other episode will put your name first.

1224
01:22:14.159 --> 01:22:16.140
And guess what happened?

1225
01:22:16.199 --> 01:22:17.039
What?

1226
01:22:17.039 --> 01:22:19.739
The 1st one was let he who is without sin.

1227
01:22:21.779 --> 01:22:26.399
See where that really, you go, that really backfired.

1228
01:22:26.399 --> 01:22:30.239
I'm hanging to see that again.

1229
01:22:30.300 --> 01:22:33.960
I might watch that again, because, I mean, it's got Vanessa Williams in it, for God's sake.

1230
01:22:34.020 --> 01:22:34.920
Like that's pretty amazing.

1231
01:22:34.979 --> 01:22:38.640
Oh, no, it is as bad as you...

1232
01:22:40.439 --> 01:22:45.420
Although, do you know, I'm so pleased with doing this after those 2 dreary episodes we watched before.

1233
01:22:45.479 --> 01:22:48.060
It's lovely to be infused like this.

1234
01:22:48.119 --> 01:22:49.619
Yeah, exactly, exactly.

1235
01:22:50.760 --> 01:22:56.520
Oh, I did like this, the way he's sort of like...

1236
01:22:56.520 --> 01:22:57.600
Oh, that shot, too.

1237
01:22:57.659 --> 01:23:00.300
Like that shot from above is very odd, isn't it?

1238
01:23:00.359 --> 01:23:02.279
Like, we don't go back to that shot.

1239
01:23:02.340 --> 01:23:04.380
That's, you know, something.

1240
01:23:04.380 --> 01:23:07.140
Like, I like him going in and kind of fishing him out.

1241
01:23:07.199 --> 01:23:25.500
Um, but the bit that I really, really like is when we get, um, like he says that he's going to go back in and Martok and Worf agree that that's an incredibly brave thing to do, that that's an impressively brave thing to do.

1242
01:23:25.560 --> 01:23:38.880
And it would have been easy for, you know, you could have just easy, just as easily said, um, you know, being scared of things like that as a massive, you know, is terrible cowardice and dishonourable and embarrassing.

1243
01:23:39.000 --> 01:23:40.140
But they don't do that.

1244
01:23:40.199 --> 01:23:47.279
You know, the writers choose to make him make them properly appreciate what courage is.

1245
01:23:47.340 --> 01:23:48.060
I think it's really good.

1246
01:23:48.359 --> 01:23:52.439
It's something we said before about wharf and DSI.

1247
01:23:52.500 --> 01:23:54.539
They can make him act like a twat.

1248
01:23:54.600 --> 01:23:55.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1249
01:23:55.439 --> 01:23:57.779
They can give him great moments.

1250
01:23:57.779 --> 01:24:03.000
Do you remember when he apologised to Orcan O'Brien and Bashir in Shadows and Cymbals?

1251
01:24:03.060 --> 01:24:04.020
Yeah, yeah.

1252
01:24:04.079 --> 01:24:05.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1253
01:24:05.340 --> 01:24:08.159
They're giving really, really great moments to go.

1254
01:24:08.159 --> 01:24:08.640
Find him.

1255
01:24:08.699 --> 01:24:11.279
Yeah, and we should be behind him sometimes.

1256
01:24:11.340 --> 01:24:12.479
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1257
01:24:12.539 --> 01:24:14.699
Let's check out that lift.

1258
01:24:14.760 --> 01:24:15.420
It's pretty good.

1259
01:24:18.539 --> 01:24:26.460
So is she wearing that outfit because she's come back to work after being pregnant?

1260
01:24:26.579 --> 01:24:28.500
She's still got her baby weight.

1261
01:24:28.560 --> 01:24:30.000
Yeah, this is only a couple episodes later.

1262
01:24:30.060 --> 01:24:30.960
Yeah, yeah.

1263
01:24:31.020 --> 01:24:32.100
I mean, I like it.

1264
01:24:32.159 --> 01:24:33.119
I think it looks really good.

1265
01:24:33.180 --> 01:24:35.399
She was so annoyed, you know.

1266
01:24:35.460 --> 01:24:36.899
She went, can you believe it?

1267
01:24:36.960 --> 01:24:39.899
You know, this baby, I couldn't get to be in the trible episode.

1268
01:24:42.539 --> 01:24:46.680
So every time there's a fun episode after this, she's like, you give me a good part.

1269
01:24:46.739 --> 01:24:48.600
That's why she's on that piano singing fever.

1270
01:24:48.659 --> 01:24:49.920
Right. wonderful.

1271
01:24:49.979 --> 01:24:50.819
That's so great.

1272
01:24:50.880 --> 01:24:52.079
So sexy.

1273
01:24:52.140 --> 01:24:53.340
Yeah, I know.

1274
01:24:53.399 --> 01:24:54.659
Such a great song too.

1275
01:24:54.720 --> 01:24:57.060
Oh, this is Cisco and Ducat.

1276
01:24:57.119 --> 01:24:58.079
This is always great.

1277
01:24:58.140 --> 01:24:59.760
I love this scene.

1278
01:25:01.020 --> 01:25:07.439
Is this a bit where he says, I'm going to give you the opportunity now, because you and I have had some encounters in the past.

1279
01:25:07.500 --> 01:25:09.659
So you get off that station before we come.

1280
01:25:09.720 --> 01:25:11.100
Yeah, yeah.

1281
01:25:11.159 --> 01:25:16.739
Well, I love the, I love the, he tells him off of just calling him Ducart and not using a title.

1282
01:25:16.800 --> 01:25:17.579
I'm head of the government.

1283
01:25:17.640 --> 01:25:18.960
He says I don't recognise the government.

1284
01:25:19.020 --> 01:25:19.800
It's so good.

1285
01:25:19.859 --> 01:25:28.859
It's so great And he's just not willing to play along at all or just take any of his shit, you know.

1286
01:25:29.100 --> 01:25:32.279
But is this is this all gloating?

1287
01:25:32.340 --> 01:25:37.979
Or is he genuinely trying to say get out of there because that device is going to go off?

1288
01:25:38.039 --> 01:25:39.119
No.

1289
01:25:39.239 --> 01:25:41.819
Oh, yeah, okay.

1290
01:25:41.880 --> 01:25:44.039
No, I don't think so.

1291
01:25:44.100 --> 01:25:45.359
Well, they have.

1292
01:25:45.420 --> 01:25:52.439
I mean, they have shared a lot of episodes before this where they have work together and developed a lot of friendship, but a record.

1293
01:25:52.500 --> 01:25:54.659
Does he even know about that?

1294
01:25:55.920 --> 01:25:57.840
Oh, that's a good point.

1295
01:25:57.899 --> 01:25:58.979
I don't know.

1296
01:25:59.039 --> 01:26:02.520
I, like it might, we might find out that he does, but he may not.

1297
01:26:02.579 --> 01:26:04.380
And it is kind of a bit trivial.

1298
01:26:04.439 --> 01:26:05.460
It never really goes anywhere.

1299
01:26:05.520 --> 01:26:10.500
It's not super important for anything other than just to be a climax to this episode.

1300
01:26:11.279 --> 01:26:13.439
Maybe he doesn't know.

1301
01:26:13.500 --> 01:26:16.979
Where he says everything that was Cardassian will be reclaiming.

1302
01:26:17.039 --> 01:26:18.960
Yeah, including...

1303
01:26:18.960 --> 01:26:21.000
I'm going to take the station from you and they do.

1304
01:26:21.060 --> 01:26:24.239
I'm going to wipe out the marquee and they do.

1305
01:26:24.300 --> 01:26:26.760
So all these promises he makes, he delivers.

1306
01:26:26.819 --> 01:26:31.619
I like I like Cisco's comeback, which is, oh, really, Cardassian?

1307
01:26:31.680 --> 01:26:35.819
I thought it was built by Bajoran slave labour, which is a particularly good line for him to deliver.

1308
01:26:35.880 --> 01:26:36.239
I think.

1309
01:26:36.300 --> 01:26:37.140
That's really great.

1310
01:26:37.800 --> 01:26:40.140
You're welcome to try.

1311
01:26:40.199 --> 01:26:41.760
And then he hangs up on him.

1312
01:26:41.819 --> 01:26:42.180
So good.

1313
01:26:42.239 --> 01:26:44.699
And then they pay off this scene, don't they?

1314
01:26:44.760 --> 01:26:45.359
in the last scene.

1315
01:26:45.840 --> 01:26:49.920
Where Dakart's like, ah, well, you saw through our little plan.

1316
01:26:49.979 --> 01:26:50.579
Did you?

1317
01:26:50.640 --> 01:26:51.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1318
01:26:51.899 --> 01:26:58.800
I made, but they do specifically say, you know, like wars come in and Cisco says, well, we'll see about tomorrow, you know?

1319
01:26:58.859 --> 01:26:59.520
Yeah, yeah.

1320
01:26:59.579 --> 01:27:12.960
Yeah, no, I think like and like they hold off for a little bit, but I think that that's really good, like just having the Dominion nearby, you know, as part of the the quadrant.

1321
01:27:12.960 --> 01:27:15.180
Because, I mean, that's the thing that this show creates, isn't it?

1322
01:27:15.239 --> 01:27:22.020
It's like a quadrant that has Klingons and Romulans and Breen and Cardassians and stuff and they're the major powers.

1323
01:27:22.079 --> 01:27:25.439
You know, you get a hint of that in TNG.

1324
01:27:25.500 --> 01:27:27.960
Can you see why this season impacted me so much?

1325
01:27:27.960 --> 01:27:31.920
Because this is where it was just all shifting in such an exciting way.

1326
01:27:31.979 --> 01:27:32.819
Yeah.

1327
01:27:32.819 --> 01:27:37.560
Yeah, well, I mean, you know, like discovery changes its premise all the time.

1328
01:27:37.619 --> 01:27:39.960
It's done that over and over again.

1329
01:27:40.020 --> 01:27:47.100
Um, and I think that it has a fair bit in common with Deep Space 9.

1330
01:27:47.159 --> 01:28:01.079
Like, I think, you know, Strangely Worlds is the Star Trek, the next generation discoveries approach to just telling an ongoing story, which changes and is from time to time a bit of a mess. like owes something to Deep Space 9, I think.

1331
01:28:02.159 --> 01:28:03.600
Yeah.

1332
01:28:03.659 --> 01:28:06.899
But like in the same breath of sort of all the shifts happening.

1333
01:28:06.960 --> 01:28:14.460
You were getting episodes like trials and tribulations, rapture for the uniform, children of time in the world.

1334
01:28:14.520 --> 01:28:15.899
There's such a lot going on.

1335
01:28:15.960 --> 01:28:17.880
Like they've got so many things going.

1336
01:28:17.939 --> 01:28:21.180
It's like for the uniform thing, it's like, 0 yeah, we've got Eddington.

1337
01:28:21.239 --> 01:28:23.760
We can do an Eddington episode amidst all of this.

1338
01:28:23.819 --> 01:28:24.479
It's pretty great.

1339
01:28:24.539 --> 01:28:26.100
Oh, you remember that one?

1340
01:28:26.220 --> 01:28:27.600
Rebecca.

1341
01:28:28.020 --> 01:28:30.180
He's not coming.

1342
01:28:30.180 --> 01:28:30.659
He's not coming.

1343
01:28:32.640 --> 01:28:34.739
We'll never forget.

1344
01:28:34.800 --> 01:28:37.739
So good. great.

1345
01:28:37.800 --> 01:28:40.680
He's Julian doing some low level.

1346
01:28:40.680 --> 01:28:44.039
Don't you know?

1347
01:28:44.039 --> 01:28:45.779
I love Brian's reaction at the end.

1348
01:28:45.779 --> 01:28:49.079
He goes, are you telling me I've been hanging out with a changeling for a month?

1349
01:28:49.800 --> 01:28:52.619
It's pretty great, isn't it?

1350
01:28:52.680 --> 01:29:00.420
He says that he knew or something or that, like, he was super annoying or, you know, less good at dance or something or something.

1351
01:29:00.479 --> 01:29:02.460
Oh, dear.

1352
01:29:02.520 --> 01:29:04.859
Yeah, see, he's doing his terrible evil acting.

1353
01:29:04.920 --> 01:29:05.699
It's so bad.

1354
01:29:05.760 --> 01:29:07.500
It's so bad.

1355
01:29:07.560 --> 01:29:10.560
It's just sort of like the emotions drained from the performance, you know?

1356
01:29:10.619 --> 01:29:12.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1357
01:29:12.180 --> 01:29:14.520
But it is, I just keep thinking of the passenger.

1358
01:29:14.699 --> 01:29:16.739
In contrast.

1359
01:29:16.800 --> 01:29:22.260
No, because in the passenger, who's doing that very English...

1360
01:29:22.319 --> 01:29:26.220
Not at all, gentlemen, I've been expecting you more.

1361
01:29:26.340 --> 01:29:27.899
Terrible.

1362
01:29:31.020 --> 01:29:40.380
But I think it does contrast well because I think Arbashire, our membership, is more naturalistic than ever.

1363
01:29:40.439 --> 01:29:43.739
And I really think he's gotten under the skin of the character at this point.

1364
01:29:43.800 --> 01:29:46.619
You go back to series one and he's a bit annoying, you know?

1365
01:29:46.680 --> 01:29:47.399
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1366
01:29:47.460 --> 01:29:47.939
Yeah, yeah.

1367
01:29:48.000 --> 01:29:48.300
Yeah.

1368
01:29:48.359 --> 01:29:50.159
I think they kind of retool him a little bit.

1369
01:29:50.159 --> 01:29:55.260
This is this is quartz contractual obligations soon, but I do love his lines.

1370
01:29:55.319 --> 01:29:56.220
Do you know what?

1371
01:29:56.279 --> 01:29:57.779
My business propositions are not great.

1372
01:29:57.840 --> 01:29:59.100
This is funny.

1373
01:29:59.159 --> 01:30:10.920
I think this is really funny and it's making fun of both the Jemhadar and the changelings because they're stupid science fiction people who don't drink, eat, or have sex.

1374
01:30:10.979 --> 01:30:14.460
And then, see, all's comeback is so great.

1375
01:30:14.520 --> 01:30:18.779
For all we know, the vorder of sex maniacs, we drink all the time.

1376
01:30:18.840 --> 01:30:25.199
I just thought that's such a funny line coming from ZR and it cheers quite up immediately.

1377
01:30:25.260 --> 01:30:26.819
It's really good.

1378
01:30:26.880 --> 01:30:34.859
Like, it serves to make fun of the science fiction premise of the show at the same time as African.

1379
01:30:34.859 --> 01:30:36.539
And it gives him he's good. as well.

1380
01:30:36.600 --> 01:30:37.680
Yeah, it's good.

1381
01:30:37.739 --> 01:30:39.060
Yeah, really great.

1382
01:30:39.300 --> 01:30:42.960
Actually, see how does get the odd moment like that, you know?

1383
01:30:43.079 --> 01:30:45.479
Yeah, well, it's super likeable.

1384
01:30:45.539 --> 01:30:49.319
It's like she's the one who cheers Quark up, which is great.

1385
01:30:49.380 --> 01:30:54.420
And again, you know, it's setting us up for some upsetting things at the beginning of the next season.

1386
01:30:54.720 --> 01:30:56.699
Oh, look here.

1387
01:30:56.760 --> 01:30:58.199
So the chinks are happening here.

1388
01:30:58.260 --> 01:31:00.300
The vorta's going, like, is he mad?

1389
01:31:00.359 --> 01:31:01.560
Doesn't he ever tire this?

1390
01:31:01.619 --> 01:31:02.100
Yeah, yeah.

1391
01:31:02.100 --> 01:31:05.399
Is looking at war with total admiration?

1392
01:31:05.460 --> 01:31:08.460
And he goes, no, I never tire of it.

1393
01:31:08.520 --> 01:31:09.060
Yep.

1394
01:31:09.119 --> 01:31:10.140
Yeah, yeah.

1395
01:31:10.199 --> 01:31:11.579
It's it's properly good.

1396
01:31:11.640 --> 01:31:16.859
No, here it's made clear that the 2 of them are alike and and...

1397
01:31:16.859 --> 01:31:18.300
Yes.

1398
01:31:18.359 --> 01:31:27.239
Like the 2 of them are the same and they share something that the vorta doesn't, that he's got more in common with warf than that he does with the vorta.

1399
01:31:27.420 --> 01:31:33.479
And I do, I think there was some genuine suspension as we keep cutting back to the cell and Garak.

1400
01:31:33.539 --> 01:31:39.239
The only thing that marred it for me was I thought the Gemadar were a bit thick at times.

1401
01:31:39.300 --> 01:31:40.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1402
01:31:40.979 --> 01:31:41.819
Yeah.

1403
01:31:41.880 --> 01:31:44.640
When he goes, sir, I have this tool.

1404
01:31:47.819 --> 01:31:50.460
You deserve to be killed, mate.

1405
01:31:50.520 --> 01:31:53.279
I kind of like this too.

1406
01:31:53.340 --> 01:31:55.380
So Tane built this, didn't he?

1407
01:31:55.439 --> 01:31:57.119
And he built it.

1408
01:31:57.539 --> 01:32:05.460
Like out of like the, like some completely unrelated system and turned it into a communicator, which I think is pretty great.

1409
01:32:05.460 --> 01:32:11.100
It does take a long time for him to rewire it, doesn't it?

1410
01:32:11.220 --> 01:32:14.939
Yeah, well, yeah, Cardassians are very convoluted, you know?

1411
01:32:15.000 --> 01:32:17.579
Oh no, I mean, they kind of sell it, I think, in the explanation.

1412
01:32:17.640 --> 01:32:21.119
And this is so, it's so clear what the stakes are.

1413
01:32:21.239 --> 01:32:22.560
It's obvious what's going on.

1414
01:32:22.619 --> 01:32:28.979
Like, it doesn't need a lot of stupid kind of exposition or anything like that.

1415
01:32:29.039 --> 01:32:31.319
We just understand this perfectly, I think.

1416
01:32:31.439 --> 01:32:34.260
Wow, you just got ploughed right in the face.

1417
01:32:34.319 --> 01:32:35.039
Yeah, yeah.

1418
01:32:36.840 --> 01:32:40.199
Well, that's one thing I do like about the Gemadai.

1419
01:32:40.260 --> 01:32:41.159
They are a bit vicious.

1420
01:32:41.220 --> 01:32:42.180
Yeah, yeah.

1421
01:32:42.239 --> 01:32:43.680
Well, they, you know?

1422
01:32:43.739 --> 01:32:48.000
Do you know, you remember they've got those weapons with the enormous blades?

1423
01:32:48.060 --> 01:32:54.359
I mean, there are scenes where you see them like slicing bases and stabbing people and...

1424
01:32:54.359 --> 01:32:56.039
Well, you know, very PG kind of way.

1425
01:32:56.100 --> 01:33:00.539
But it's nice to have...

1426
01:33:00.539 --> 01:33:05.520
You root, think of an alien racing TNG that was sort of viscerally...

1427
01:33:05.939 --> 01:33:06.359
Yeah, yeah.

1428
01:33:06.420 --> 01:33:08.220
I can't think of one.

1429
01:33:08.279 --> 01:33:13.380
Well, what about what about the Videans in Voyager?

1430
01:33:14.340 --> 01:33:16.079
You say that.

1431
01:33:16.140 --> 01:33:19.140
I do think that's a great idea, the particular harvesting organs.

1432
01:33:19.199 --> 01:33:19.979
Yeah, yeah.

1433
01:33:20.039 --> 01:33:22.260
They're a little bit like Borg, but...

1434
01:33:22.260 --> 01:33:24.119
Because they're portrayed as victims.

1435
01:33:24.180 --> 01:33:26.340
We don't quite get the horror element, right?

1436
01:33:26.399 --> 01:33:26.699
you know?

1437
01:33:26.760 --> 01:33:29.460
Yeah, no, it's kind of a bit too gross.

1438
01:33:29.579 --> 01:33:30.180
There we go.

1439
01:33:30.239 --> 01:33:31.920
Look, Kira's off to the defiance.

1440
01:33:31.979 --> 01:33:32.340
Take charge.

1441
01:33:32.460 --> 01:33:33.539
Yeah, woo hoo.

1442
01:33:33.600 --> 01:33:36.420
And deploy the runabouts, and here's the runabouts hero scene.

1443
01:33:36.899 --> 01:33:39.300
Deploy the runabouts.

1444
01:33:39.420 --> 01:33:40.319
I love it.

1445
01:33:40.380 --> 01:33:42.119
How many have we got?

1446
01:33:42.180 --> 01:33:42.659
We've got two.

1447
01:33:42.960 --> 01:33:45.960
Four, I think, mentioned in dialogue.

1448
01:33:46.020 --> 01:33:47.279
Okay.

1449
01:33:47.340 --> 01:33:50.760
I mean they do manage to assemble quite a fleet in the end, don't they?

1450
01:33:50.880 --> 01:33:53.760
The Yukon, the Rio Grande, the Volga.

1451
01:33:53.819 --> 01:33:57.539
Oh, maybe it's only 3 and now he's, yeah.

1452
01:33:57.600 --> 01:34:00.479
And so he has killed all of them.

1453
01:34:00.539 --> 01:34:02.340
We can't show blood or anything like that.

1454
01:34:02.399 --> 01:34:03.720
It just looks like they've passed out.

1455
01:34:03.779 --> 01:34:07.140
But I think they have to be dead so that we can blow up the ship.

1456
01:34:07.199 --> 01:34:08.579
Yeah.

1457
01:34:08.699 --> 01:34:09.300
Yeah, yeah.

1458
01:34:09.899 --> 01:34:11.880
I thought, you know what?

1459
01:34:11.939 --> 01:34:18.180
I don't care how tacky the idea is that they're gonna put a bomb into the sun.

1460
01:34:18.239 --> 01:34:19.739
Yeah, I didn't 1st watch this.

1461
01:34:19.800 --> 01:34:22.859
It was the most exciting idea. awesome.

1462
01:34:22.920 --> 01:34:27.000
No, no, I think it's really great. but I do think that it doesn't go...

1463
01:34:27.060 --> 01:34:28.079
Oh, far out.

1464
01:34:28.140 --> 01:34:38.100
Can I just say that when I saw the Romulan Warbirds uncloak, it just struck me how incredibly great those warbirds look.

1465
01:34:38.159 --> 01:34:44.279
And do you remember, like, they 1st appear at the end of series one of Star Trek, the Next Generation?

1466
01:34:44.399 --> 01:34:46.319
Oh, the Neutral Zion.

1467
01:34:46.380 --> 01:34:48.119
And they look magnificent.

1468
01:34:48.180 --> 01:34:49.380
They look so good.

1469
01:34:49.439 --> 01:34:59.340
And, uh, and, you know, the ship design in this show in all of the Star Trek has been just tremendous, like we were praising the JemHadar cockroach ships.

1470
01:34:59.399 --> 01:35:08.279
What's great is when you get to like sacrifice of angels, you've got all those different designs of ships and they're weaving in and out and there's laser beams everywhere.

1471
01:35:08.399 --> 01:35:16.739
Now we just missed a self-sealing, self-sealing stem bolt reference from Julian, who says...

1472
01:35:16.800 --> 01:35:17.399
Yeah, yeah.

1473
01:35:17.460 --> 01:35:21.000
So that that weird thing that he uses to open the panel.

1474
01:35:21.060 --> 01:35:24.479
He says, well, either it's a self-sealing, self-sealing stemble.

1475
01:35:24.539 --> 01:35:25.260
I can't even say it.

1476
01:35:25.319 --> 01:35:26.100
So good.

1477
01:35:26.159 --> 01:35:27.060
There we go.

1478
01:35:27.119 --> 01:35:31.979
I think that is one of the most absurd running jokes because they do mention them several times.

1479
01:35:32.039 --> 01:35:33.539
It's really fun, isn't it?

1480
01:35:33.600 --> 01:35:34.319
It's so good.

1481
01:35:34.380 --> 01:35:37.260
But it just makes me happy about that fun B plot.

1482
01:35:37.319 --> 01:35:41.279
Like it was progress, you know, way back in series one that adorable.

1483
01:35:41.340 --> 01:35:42.239
Stop defeat, Nathan.

1484
01:35:42.300 --> 01:35:45.119
They don't forget anything on the show, no. which is great.

1485
01:35:45.239 --> 01:35:46.380
Except Star Trek.

1486
01:35:46.439 --> 01:35:49.260
Except the things that they should forget about.

1487
01:35:49.319 --> 01:35:52.439
Yeah, they don't mention the Meridian planet again.

1488
01:35:52.560 --> 01:35:53.159
No, no.

1489
01:35:53.220 --> 01:35:54.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

1490
01:35:54.180 --> 01:35:57.300
Or, you know, Luaxander Troy is love the virus.

1491
01:35:57.359 --> 01:35:57.899
Yeah.

1492
01:35:58.800 --> 01:36:00.180
Yes.

1493
01:36:00.239 --> 01:36:04.560
And there is, there is, um, some energy to these fights.

1494
01:36:04.619 --> 01:36:06.359
I thought they were really well choreographed.

1495
01:36:06.420 --> 01:36:08.699
And I can't tell that there's a stunt double involved.

1496
01:36:08.760 --> 01:36:12.720
Yeah, well, they've all got big heaps of latex on them.

1497
01:36:12.779 --> 01:36:13.500
It's hard to tell.

1498
01:36:13.560 --> 01:36:14.640
It's not like the...

1499
01:36:14.640 --> 01:36:15.239
Well, you say that.

1500
01:36:15.300 --> 01:36:23.579
You say that, but you go and watch tacking into the wind where Gowron dies and it's very clear for most of that sequence, so it is not what works.

1501
01:36:23.640 --> 01:36:24.239
Right, okay.

1502
01:36:24.300 --> 01:36:25.500
It's the eyes.

1503
01:36:25.560 --> 01:36:26.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1504
01:36:26.819 --> 01:36:28.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah. fair enough.

1505
01:36:29.640 --> 01:36:32.159
So he's still in there, isn't he?

1506
01:36:32.220 --> 01:36:32.520
Yeah.

1507
01:36:32.579 --> 01:36:33.180
Yeah.

1508
01:36:33.180 --> 01:36:34.260
It's just dark.

1509
01:36:34.319 --> 01:36:35.579
Oh here we go.

1510
01:36:35.640 --> 01:36:48.060
Yeah, brain. there you go And then she, but then we get, Yes, the brain gets very quickly and I think she gets killed, doesn't she?

1511
01:36:48.119 --> 01:36:51.239
And then Bashir stabs a Jemadar in the neck.

1512
01:36:51.300 --> 01:36:53.279
The neck, that occurred to me is a thing too.

1513
01:36:53.340 --> 01:36:55.079
It's kind of like, woo hoo, okay.

1514
01:36:55.140 --> 01:36:58.199
I think that was the one that hate him in the face, you know.

1515
01:36:58.260 --> 01:36:59.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah, good.

1516
01:37:00.899 --> 01:37:02.880
Trying to work in here.

1517
01:37:03.359 --> 01:37:06.960
I know I know what you're saying about PG-13.

1518
01:37:07.140 --> 01:37:09.300
There isn't any blood or anything like that, but it is violent.

1519
01:37:09.359 --> 01:37:10.140
I do like all that.

1520
01:37:10.199 --> 01:37:10.859
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1521
01:37:10.920 --> 01:37:11.819
And there's a bit of blood.

1522
01:37:11.880 --> 01:37:15.960
Like we get a bit of blood on wharf space and this is really kind of full on.

1523
01:37:16.020 --> 01:37:21.779
And like, we have to assume that, oh, see this.

1524
01:37:21.840 --> 01:37:23.279
Do you know what I mean?

1525
01:37:23.340 --> 01:37:28.439
Like giving the character a way of indicating that he's not going to give up the fight.

1526
01:37:28.500 --> 01:37:35.039
And I really, I like the speech. like I really like that Jem'adar speech.

1527
01:37:35.159 --> 01:37:45.420
It's the, it's, it's, I can't beat him, all I can do is kill him, and that no longer holds my interest, and I think that's so good.

1528
01:37:46.680 --> 01:37:54.359
And, you know, they're these sort of weird ass clone, genetically engineered, whatever the hell they are.

1529
01:37:54.840 --> 01:38:01.680
But they're the only kind of moral people in the Dominion, despite all the viciousness.

1530
01:38:01.739 --> 01:38:04.800
They're the only ones who have some kind of ethos.

1531
01:38:04.859 --> 01:38:06.600
Every now again.

1532
01:38:06.659 --> 01:38:08.460
They bring in a Jem'Hadar character.

1533
01:38:08.520 --> 01:38:14.159
Do you remember the one in series 2 is trying to cure that one legion of Jemadar of addiction to the white?

1534
01:38:14.460 --> 01:38:24.539
And then in series 6 rocks and shoals, you've got the one who knows that if he sends his men into that canyon, that Cisco's going to kill them all and he does it anyway because that's what his program.

1535
01:38:24.600 --> 01:38:28.739
But every and again, they have a really interesting Gemadark. he's one of them.

1536
01:38:28.800 --> 01:38:29.279
Yeah.

1537
01:38:29.279 --> 01:38:31.800
Oh, the Romulan escaped.

1538
01:38:31.859 --> 01:38:34.199
I'm glad about that because she helped.

1539
01:38:34.260 --> 01:38:36.779
She can, I don't know, what she does.

1540
01:38:36.840 --> 01:38:37.680
She's.

1541
01:38:37.739 --> 01:38:41.699
And we retroactively pretend that that is Senator, Senator Cretac.

1542
01:38:41.760 --> 01:38:42.239
That would have been great.

1543
01:38:42.300 --> 01:38:43.260
I was just thinking about her.

1544
01:38:43.319 --> 01:38:46.020
She could be a little playmate for Senator Gretag.

1545
01:38:47.760 --> 01:38:49.920
She was gay, wouldn't she?

1546
01:38:49.979 --> 01:38:51.840
Well, clearly.

1547
01:38:51.899 --> 01:38:53.640
No, she was from the late...

1548
01:38:53.699 --> 01:38:55.380
So now we think, whoa, the plot's over, you know?

1549
01:38:55.439 --> 01:38:56.340
escaped from the prison?

1550
01:38:56.939 --> 01:38:59.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1551
01:38:59.399 --> 01:38:59.880
That's right.

1552
01:38:59.939 --> 01:39:04.380
And so this is this is the climax because we need a win.

1553
01:39:04.439 --> 01:39:10.319
I love this, though, because this is like, right, we want to do a space battle, but we can't afford it yet.

1554
01:39:10.380 --> 01:39:14.699
So sorry, it's like, well, we're getting signals from all over the place.

1555
01:39:15.300 --> 01:39:17.399
And there's nothing on the screen.

1556
01:39:17.760 --> 01:39:30.720
Yeah, I think too, that they're wise to kind of hold their fire on that, you know, like that that letting us anticipate that battle.

1557
01:39:30.779 --> 01:39:32.520
Like, let's not blow it instantly.

1558
01:39:32.579 --> 01:39:38.279
We've already seen heaps of Gemadar ships, you know, pouring into the quadrant through the wormhole.

1559
01:39:38.340 --> 01:39:41.340
We don't need to see them this week, I think.

1560
01:39:41.399 --> 01:39:44.939
Let's hold off on that. comes to it in a call to arms.

1561
01:39:45.000 --> 01:39:46.920
It's not a decent moment.

1562
01:39:46.979 --> 01:39:48.899
And then they do the same thing again.

1563
01:39:48.960 --> 01:39:53.699
They hold back from showing a battle throughout those whole 6 episodes and then in sacrifice of angels.

1564
01:39:53.760 --> 01:39:54.479
They just go to town.

1565
01:39:54.539 --> 01:39:56.340
Yeah, yeah, it's pretty, yeah.

1566
01:39:56.399 --> 01:39:57.300
That's pretty awesome.

1567
01:39:57.359 --> 01:40:00.840
There is something about enticing your audience and not giving them everything up from.

1568
01:40:00.899 --> 01:40:01.920
Yeah, I think so too.

1569
01:40:02.640 --> 01:40:10.439
Well, I remember some reviews at the time were people saying they really expected to see a battle here and they were a bit gussier.

1570
01:40:10.439 --> 01:40:11.279
They didn't get it.

1571
01:40:11.340 --> 01:40:12.600
No, I think it's better.

1572
01:40:12.659 --> 01:40:22.380
I think it is absolutely better to just have them hanging around in the quadrant, you know, like rather than on the other side of the wormhole, have the mercy among us.

1573
01:40:22.500 --> 01:40:27.060
Don't you love this bit in a 2nd where she's like, inside a solar system?

1574
01:40:27.119 --> 01:40:29.520
Well if we don't, there won't be a solar system left.

1575
01:40:29.579 --> 01:40:31.199
I like that too.

1576
01:40:31.260 --> 01:40:38.159
And it sort of establishes, so we can't do warp in the gravity well of a star, you know, we have to use impulse to get out.

1577
01:40:38.220 --> 01:40:40.140
That was always kind of the idea.

1578
01:40:40.140 --> 01:40:44.399
And so let's remind us of that and then how urgent it is and stuff.

1579
01:40:44.460 --> 01:40:49.500
And the modifications to the Yukon, yeah, so that was what we saw Julian doing.

1580
01:40:49.560 --> 01:40:53.699
That was the 1st thing that we actually saw Evil Julian doing.

1581
01:40:53.760 --> 01:40:54.600
Here we go.

1582
01:40:54.720 --> 01:41:03.239
And then you get this wonderful cartoony shot of the defiant, dashing into the sun, grabbing the runabout and then flinging it off the air.

1583
01:41:03.659 --> 01:41:05.220
So good.

1584
01:41:05.340 --> 01:41:06.539
It's so good.

1585
01:41:06.600 --> 01:41:14.939
I actually think, have they, like, these visuals are much more interesting.

1586
01:41:15.000 --> 01:41:15.899
They are cartoony.

1587
01:41:15.960 --> 01:41:17.039
Look how cartoony that is.

1588
01:41:17.100 --> 01:41:23.159
But these visuals are much, much more interesting, I think, than they have done in the past with computer stuff.

1589
01:41:23.220 --> 01:41:26.819
Gee whiz, that looks like, that's pretty great.

1590
01:41:26.880 --> 01:41:27.840
That is pretty great.

1591
01:41:27.899 --> 01:41:29.279
Yeah, you're right.

1592
01:41:29.340 --> 01:41:30.659
It is super cartoony though.

1593
01:41:30.840 --> 01:41:33.539
Yeah, maybe, yeah.

1594
01:41:33.600 --> 01:41:36.779
Let's be honest, it is a bit of a cartoon, that plot at this point.

1595
01:41:36.840 --> 01:41:37.319
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1596
01:41:37.380 --> 01:41:38.039
That's really fun.

1597
01:41:38.100 --> 01:41:45.000
And it is only, like, it only takes up a very little amount of time, but it absolutely has to be. yeah here we go.

1598
01:41:45.060 --> 01:41:47.520
It absolutely has to be there.

1599
01:41:47.579 --> 01:41:48.960
Otherwise, we don't get a win.

1600
01:41:49.020 --> 01:41:52.500
Okay, I did object to this one a little bit with Cisco going.

1601
01:41:52.560 --> 01:41:54.420
Yes, it was all an elaborate trap.

1602
01:41:54.479 --> 01:41:56.159
The signals were fake.

1603
01:41:56.220 --> 01:41:57.479
All right.

1604
01:41:58.380 --> 01:41:59.880
We've been fucking paying attention.

1605
01:41:59.939 --> 01:42:00.479
All right.

1606
01:42:00.539 --> 01:42:01.380
Thanks.

1607
01:42:02.760 --> 01:42:05.460
Without ever firing a shut.

1608
01:42:05.520 --> 01:42:06.659
Whoa.

1609
01:42:06.659 --> 01:42:11.460
Now, look, he gets away with it because he's Avery Brooks and he can say anything.

1610
01:42:12.119 --> 01:42:14.520
I'm again, we'll have to wait for another day is pretty cheesy too.

1611
01:42:14.640 --> 01:42:18.899
Oh, I like this little payoff, though, where she gives a little piss.

1612
01:42:18.960 --> 01:42:21.479
Yes, that is actually nice, isn't it?

1613
01:42:22.260 --> 01:42:28.079
I kind of wished it was, I mean, maybe it's a, uh, yeah.

1614
01:42:28.140 --> 01:42:29.640
It's never romantic, though.

1615
01:42:29.699 --> 01:42:30.720
They never have a relationship.

1616
01:42:30.779 --> 01:42:32.399
Yeah, no, I guess not.

1617
01:42:32.460 --> 01:42:36.600
But it is a little bit too like that, though, I think.

1618
01:42:36.659 --> 01:42:37.979
Well, it's very strange.

1619
01:42:38.100 --> 01:42:54.000
Instead of going down the Bashir Garak route, which is the obvious one, is they start going down the O'Brien Bashiro, in episode, in series 7, they're always hanging out together in their spare time and there's even a scene where Bashir says to O'Brien, look, I love mole.

1620
01:42:54.060 --> 01:42:54.479
No, sorry.

1621
01:42:54.539 --> 01:42:58.079
I love Ezri, but I like you a bit more.

1622
01:42:58.140 --> 01:43:01.079
I'm like, what's going on?

1623
01:43:04.439 --> 01:43:06.420
But you're right.

1624
01:43:06.479 --> 01:43:07.380
They're paying off everything here.

1625
01:43:07.439 --> 01:43:11.159
So you've got, Brian, making a joke that he's been hanging out with a changeling.

1626
01:43:11.220 --> 01:43:14.699
You've got Dax and Worf having a snog because they're back together again.

1627
01:43:14.939 --> 01:43:17.880
The mention of the opera collection as well.

1628
01:43:18.960 --> 01:43:21.960
Does he say, are they intact or something?

1629
01:43:22.020 --> 01:43:23.520
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1630
01:43:23.579 --> 01:43:23.939
All of that.

1631
01:43:24.000 --> 01:43:26.880
She says, oh, very nearly, I think, is her response.

1632
01:43:26.939 --> 01:43:34.079
And then here, we're giving Martok a job on the station so that he can be here from week to week, which is why we brought him back.

1633
01:43:34.319 --> 01:43:42.539
Well, remember that wonderful subplot we had in Blaze of Glory where he was causing, he was being a lout on the promenade and Norg had to try and arrest him.

1634
01:43:42.600 --> 01:43:43.739
Yeah, that's right.

1635
01:43:43.859 --> 01:43:47.579
Ira Bear actually does say, look, we love the character.

1636
01:43:47.640 --> 01:43:48.539
We love the actor.

1637
01:43:48.600 --> 01:43:50.760
We didn't know what we were going to do with him at this point.

1638
01:43:50.819 --> 01:43:51.720
No, we're just bringing back.

1639
01:43:51.779 --> 01:43:53.279
You see what happens, you know?

1640
01:43:53.340 --> 01:43:54.479
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

1641
01:43:54.539 --> 01:43:56.819
And it works a dream, doesn't it?

1642
01:43:56.880 --> 01:43:57.180
Yeah.

1643
01:43:57.239 --> 01:44:01.260
No, and that's the sort of clever thing that they absolutely get right.

1644
01:44:01.319 --> 01:44:02.100
Oh, here we go.

1645
01:44:02.699 --> 01:44:05.819
Well, Captain, I want to congratulate you.

1646
01:44:06.539 --> 01:44:09.000
You saw through our scheme.

1647
01:44:09.060 --> 01:44:15.239
So he must know about it by now and maybe he knew about it all along, but I don't think.

1648
01:44:15.300 --> 01:44:28.619
Yeah, yeah, I don't think that, um, yes, in fact, for the decision to let the, them explode the planet with the, explode the solar system with the, there.

1649
01:44:28.739 --> 01:44:30.239
Do you know what I mean?

1650
01:44:30.300 --> 01:44:37.619
Like he, that's just a very clear statement that he must have known about it. you know, and he doesn't care because she's decided against him.

1651
01:44:37.739 --> 01:44:41.039
But initially, of course, he would want to get his daughter away from that.

1652
01:44:41.100 --> 01:44:41.880
So that makes that.

1653
01:44:41.939 --> 01:44:43.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1654
01:44:43.260 --> 01:44:47.039
But once she rejects him for Garak, you know, whatever, I think.

1655
01:44:47.520 --> 01:44:50.340
I mean, it takes her death, doesn't it?

1656
01:44:50.399 --> 01:44:52.739
until they're reconciled or not?

1657
01:44:53.520 --> 01:44:59.100
Not reconciled, but until he starts feeling bad about her again, until he starts feeling.

1658
01:44:59.159 --> 01:45:05.039
Actually, no, it's when she comes back to the station and he just goes, oh, well, you're my daughter, you know.

1659
01:45:05.100 --> 01:45:08.100
At this point, he's in a position of massive power.

1660
01:45:08.159 --> 01:45:10.439
You're going to force be a little bit magnanimous, you know?

1661
01:45:10.800 --> 01:45:12.779
Oh, I love that hour.

1662
01:45:12.840 --> 01:45:20.159
He goes, you know, you may have escaped defeat this day, but tomorrow, we will see about tomorrow.

1663
01:45:20.220 --> 01:45:21.000
Yeah.

1664
01:45:21.000 --> 01:45:28.739
I think that's like a pretty amazing thing as well for a mid-season 2 partner.

1665
01:45:28.800 --> 01:45:36.060
Like, I know that this show has big event to, you know, 2 parters in the middle of a season.

1666
01:45:36.119 --> 01:45:45.960
But something as big a deal as this, like that changes the premise and changes the, you know, the status quo.

1667
01:45:46.020 --> 01:45:48.420
Like I think that's pretty, that is pretty incredible.

1668
01:45:48.479 --> 01:46:00.060
And I think the great thing that gives them the chance to do is just to see, you know, check in on everyone and how they've been going after the last few episodes, you know, and what's been happening.

1669
01:46:00.119 --> 01:46:03.539
It's that soapy kind of instinct that they have.

1670
01:46:04.199 --> 01:46:18.300
Well, I really love about this is they've learned almost from TNG's mistakes because there was a couple of episodes of TNG that ended on cliffhangers like this. you know, um, do you remember the thing sending the signal out into space?

1671
01:46:18.359 --> 01:46:21.300
the parasites are trying to take over Starfleet.

1672
01:46:21.359 --> 01:46:24.420
And there was a promise that they would come and well, we never saw them again.

1673
01:46:24.479 --> 01:46:34.979
Or even at the end of the one, we watched the wounded, where Picard's basically saying, you know, we're on the brink of war with the Cardassians, you know, what's going to happen next and nothing came of that.

1674
01:46:35.039 --> 01:46:36.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1675
01:46:36.899 --> 01:46:40.500
I mean, yeah, were they self-consciously setting something up, they weren't.

1676
01:46:40.560 --> 01:46:46.380
It's just that someone saw that it was a hanging thread and thought, let's retool those we can make the Cardassians work.

1677
01:46:46.439 --> 01:46:47.399
Yeah.

1678
01:46:47.460 --> 01:46:51.060
But I do like a show that does promise and then delivers.

1679
01:46:51.119 --> 01:46:52.140
Delivers, you know?

1680
01:46:52.199 --> 01:46:52.560
Yeah.

1681
01:46:52.560 --> 01:46:55.199
And they didn't just deliver.

1682
01:46:55.260 --> 01:47:00.960
They delivered in a way where they singlehandedly changed how you can make Star Trek.

1683
01:47:01.020 --> 01:47:02.819
Yeah, absolutely.

1684
01:47:03.180 --> 01:47:12.060
And let's be honest, that's how they do it now. long form marks. you know, big galactic space battles.

1685
01:47:12.119 --> 01:47:12.720
Yeah.

1686
01:47:12.779 --> 01:47:19.260
Not in all of the shows, like not in all of the shows, but definitely in Discovery, which was, you know, the original flagship.

1687
01:47:19.319 --> 01:47:24.600
They brought back something that told long arc stories in a war context.

1688
01:47:24.659 --> 01:47:36.899
Like they might not explicitly reference Deep Space 9 as much as we might like, but they certainly learnt some lessons from it when they restarted the show.

1689
01:47:37.319 --> 01:47:54.960
The only other thing I want to say is, I think, for me, these 2 VHS tapes, for the uniform, in purgatory shadow, buying the photos lie, and Dr. Bashir, I presume, Back when I was watching it back then, I'm not sure about now.

1690
01:47:55.020 --> 01:47:58.260
That was my favourite 4 episode run in the entire run.

1691
01:47:58.319 --> 01:48:01.859
That's 4 golden episodes back to back.

1692
01:48:01.920 --> 01:48:05.159
They were really really knocking it out of the park at this point.

1693
01:48:11.579 --> 01:48:29.220
All right, it's the end of the episode and it is time for us to decide what we are going to watch next, and it's my go on the randomiser, and I am going to choose a Kurtzman Trek episode, and I have selected all of the series.

1694
01:48:29.399 --> 01:48:31.800
I think it's long past time.

1695
01:48:31.859 --> 01:48:33.779
We dip back into Kersman Trek.

1696
01:48:33.840 --> 01:48:38.399
And can I say after doing in Purgatory Shadow and buy Inferno's light?

1697
01:48:38.460 --> 01:48:42.600
Thank you very much for saying we should do this one after I pressed the button last time.

1698
01:48:42.659 --> 01:48:45.239
I have now been reminded why I like Star Trek again.

1699
01:48:45.539 --> 01:48:47.039
Let's go.

1700
01:48:47.100 --> 01:48:48.779
Let's see what we can do about that.

1701
01:48:48.840 --> 01:48:49.380
All right.

1702
01:48:49.439 --> 01:48:50.579
I'm gonna press the button.

1703
01:48:51.239 --> 01:48:53.640
Unification three.

1704
01:48:53.699 --> 01:49:01.739
So your random Star Trek discovery episode, this is season three, episode seven, and it's in the future.

1705
01:49:01.800 --> 01:49:10.920
We have Navarre instead of Vulcan, and we have the return of Michael's mother as well as a Romulan Truth nun.

1706
01:49:10.979 --> 01:49:12.420
Oh, no.

1707
01:49:12.420 --> 01:49:17.460
Plenty of opportunities for Michael Burnham to stare off camera but tears in her eyes.

1708
01:49:17.520 --> 01:49:30.720
In fact, it actually ends up being, I think, deliberately nowhere near as overwrought as it had been in series 2. there's one ludicrously hot Vulcan in it, but I am going to press the button again.

1709
01:49:30.779 --> 01:49:32.100
Oh, okay.

1710
01:49:32.159 --> 01:49:33.779
Although I do love that series free.

1711
01:49:33.840 --> 01:49:35.399
I can't wait till we get back to it.

1712
01:49:35.520 --> 01:49:38.699
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is it is pretty fun.

1713
01:49:38.760 --> 01:49:45.000
So this is Picard season 2, episode 4 Watcher.

1714
01:49:45.060 --> 01:49:46.560
I say again.

1715
01:49:46.619 --> 01:49:47.819
Yeah, okay.

1716
01:49:47.880 --> 01:49:56.100
Okay, so this is Star Trek Lower Decks, the least dangerous game, which we covered episode 60.

1717
01:49:56.279 --> 01:49:59.460
It's the most recent Kurtzman Trek episode we've done.

1718
01:49:59.520 --> 01:50:04.140
Basically, Nathan, if you were going to say any lower decks episode, I was going to say, yeah, we're doing it.

1719
01:50:04.199 --> 01:50:05.760
How about this then?

1720
01:50:05.819 --> 01:50:11.159
Your random Star Trek Lower Decks episode is Envoys, series one, episode two.

1721
01:50:11.220 --> 01:50:14.460
So the 2nd episode of Lower Decks.

1722
01:50:14.520 --> 01:50:15.000
Which one's that?

1723
01:50:15.060 --> 01:50:16.380
I can't remember.

1724
01:50:16.439 --> 01:50:18.420
I don't remember either.

1725
01:50:18.479 --> 01:50:19.680
I think we just do it.

1726
01:50:19.739 --> 01:50:20.640
What do you think?

1727
01:50:20.699 --> 01:50:21.239
They're all great.

1728
01:50:21.420 --> 01:50:25.380
You know, sometimes when we go in blind, we get wharf in the fold.

1729
01:50:25.500 --> 01:50:30.899
Other times we go in blind, we know we're going to get something at least that's possible television.

1730
01:50:30.960 --> 01:50:37.020
Yeah, although I have to say the last Kurtzman trick we did was a lower deck.

1731
01:50:37.140 --> 01:50:39.659
Oh, okay, press it again.

1732
01:50:39.720 --> 01:50:40.020
Okay.

1733
01:50:40.079 --> 01:50:43.260
Oh my god, this could be anything.

1734
01:50:43.319 --> 01:50:48.960
Your random Star Trek Lower Dex episode is terminal provocation season one, episode six.

1735
01:50:49.079 --> 01:50:50.220
I don't know what that is either.

1736
01:50:50.279 --> 01:50:51.359
I'm going to press it again.

1737
01:50:51.420 --> 01:50:51.779
Once again.

1738
01:50:52.500 --> 01:50:54.060
Ooh.

1739
01:50:54.119 --> 01:50:55.140
Okay.

1740
01:50:55.199 --> 01:50:58.920
Your random Star Trek Discovery episode is coming home.

1741
01:50:58.979 --> 01:51:01.680
Season four, episode 13.

1742
01:51:01.920 --> 01:51:06.600
So the final episode of season four.

1743
01:51:06.720 --> 01:51:09.899
Will this make me watching season 4 completely move?

1744
01:51:10.020 --> 01:51:11.699
Wow.

1745
01:51:11.760 --> 01:51:13.140
Have you watched it?

1746
01:51:13.199 --> 01:51:14.520
No, you didn't get round to watching it.

1747
01:51:14.579 --> 01:51:17.039
I certainly can't watch it all in a week.

1748
01:51:17.100 --> 01:51:18.119
No, okay.

1749
01:51:18.180 --> 01:51:19.319
Let's try again.

1750
01:51:19.739 --> 01:51:21.659
I'm so sorry.

1751
01:51:22.859 --> 01:51:29.340
Your random Star Trek Discovery episode is Terra Farma part two.

1752
01:51:29.399 --> 01:51:46.979
That would mean doing terra firma part one as well. which I think unusually for discovery is the previous episode, and it's terrafoma part one and part 2, and it's, you know, towards the end of series 3, which we did actually touch on at some point. one more time.

1753
01:51:47.880 --> 01:51:56.340
Okay, your random Star Trek Picard episode is, it's not from series 3.

1754
01:51:56.579 --> 01:52:00.479
It's season two, episode 10.

1755
01:52:00.960 --> 01:52:02.340
Farewell.

1756
01:52:02.399 --> 01:52:06.359
So it's the finale of series 2.

1757
01:52:06.779 --> 01:52:10.260
Let's do it Yeah, I think that's right.

1758
01:52:10.319 --> 01:52:11.819
I think it's the finale of series 2.

1759
01:52:11.939 --> 01:52:13.680
Anyway, we'll get us to talk about series 2.

1760
01:52:13.920 --> 01:52:16.979
So season two, episode 10, farewell.

1761
01:52:17.039 --> 01:52:25.800
Oh, I've only seen the 1st 2 or 3 episodes of season two, and I've heard mixed reviews of the season as a whole.

1762
01:52:25.859 --> 01:52:29.520
But I know some pretty big stuff happens in that last episode.

1763
01:52:29.579 --> 01:52:33.119
So I certainly think we'll have a lot of talking points.

1764
01:52:33.180 --> 01:52:35.039
Yeah, yeah. think we will.

1765
01:52:35.100 --> 01:52:38.760
Is this when we say goodbye to Rios and Agnes and all of that?

1766
01:52:38.819 --> 01:52:40.680
Oh, man, what were they thinking?

1767
01:52:41.100 --> 01:52:45.119
To bring back in Marina Surtis and Gates McFadden.

1768
01:52:45.180 --> 01:52:46.020
What were they doing?

1769
01:52:46.079 --> 01:52:46.979
No.

1770
01:52:46.979 --> 01:52:51.600
We all loved Picard series three.

1771
01:52:51.659 --> 01:52:55.319
It was a great television event and we will be covering it at some point.

1772
01:52:55.380 --> 01:52:59.399
But until then, it's season 2 episode 10.

1773
01:52:59.640 --> 01:53:00.479
Let's do it.

1774
01:53:07.920 --> 01:53:13.020
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley.

1775
01:53:13.079 --> 01:53:19.680
We're online at untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find links to our Twitter, mastered on Facebook and YouTube channel.

1776
01:53:19.739 --> 01:53:25.020
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lamb.

1777
01:53:25.140 --> 01:53:30.239
This episode was recorded on the 23rd of May 2023 and released on the 2nd of June.

1778
01:53:30.300 --> 01:53:33.359
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Picard.

1779
01:53:33.420 --> 01:53:34.020
Farewell.

1780
01:53:53.579 --> 01:53:55.079
Good choice.

1781
01:53:55.079 --> 01:53:55.979
Yeah, that's a good choice.

1782
01:53:59.039 --> 01:54:00.180
Well, because we did assimilation.

1783
01:54:00.239 --> 01:54:00.899
Do you remember that?

1784
01:54:00.899 --> 01:54:06.180
or whatever it was, the one the shit I stole from the Borg Queen dot text.

1785
01:54:06.239 --> 01:54:09.779
Which was good, but it was very much like a...

1786
01:54:09.779 --> 01:54:10.680
Just a bit of us.

1787
01:54:10.680 --> 01:54:12.960
A to B sort of episode.

1788
01:54:13.020 --> 01:54:14.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1789
01:54:14.399 --> 01:54:14.699
Yeah.

1790
01:54:15.420 --> 01:54:19.800
What we should do is season 2, episode two. one was amazing.

1791
01:54:19.859 --> 01:54:21.539
Yeah, wasn't it good?

1792
01:54:21.600 --> 01:54:22.680
So good.

1793
01:54:22.979 --> 01:54:26.340
I could have spent a bit more time in that eagle universe.

1794
01:54:26.460 --> 01:54:27.359
The Confederate.

1795
01:54:27.420 --> 01:54:33.060
Yeah, they're a little bit too much like the mirror universe, I think, but that's kind of the point.

1796
01:54:33.119 --> 01:54:49.920
The point, you know, the point of the mirror universe in, um, Discovery season one was that it's kind of fascist, you know, like America's kind of weird fascist tendencies kind of brought to the four, you know.

1797
01:54:49.979 --> 01:54:51.779
Sort of the Trump period.

1798
01:54:51.840 --> 01:54:53.939
Yeah, well, I think that's absolutely it.

1799
01:54:54.000 --> 01:55:08.520
We get, you know, um, what's his name, Lorke saying, make the galaxy great again, and, you know, they've got a power source that's going to sort of end all life everywhere, which is kind of what we're doing with fossil fuel and stuff.

1800
01:55:08.520 --> 01:55:10.319
Like it is, you know, it is that.

1801
01:55:10.380 --> 01:55:12.600
You do terrible things for that tardigrade.

1802
01:55:12.659 --> 01:55:13.800
No, no, no, that's fake news.

1803
01:55:13.859 --> 01:55:14.460
Yeah, yeah.

1804
01:55:14.460 --> 01:55:27.659
No, I, you know, like I genuinely think that's what, that's what's happening in series one and we start with, you know, like post 911 kind of war thing where we kind of start to abandon our principles.

1805
01:55:27.720 --> 01:55:37.560
Um, and then we just go into sort of weird arse, hallucinate, hallucinatory kind of mirror universe kind of staff with the Trump here, I think.

1806
01:55:37.619 --> 01:55:39.840
Michelle, yo being fabulous.

1807
01:55:39.899 --> 01:55:40.800
So good.

1808
01:55:40.859 --> 01:55:42.000
Cousin Michelle.

1809
01:55:42.479 --> 01:55:45.119
I'm strangely so much more...

1810
01:55:45.119 --> 01:55:47.279
I'm not think, I'm saying on.

1811
01:55:47.939 --> 01:55:51.600
This could be the tag. you're eating during the tag.

1812
01:55:51.659 --> 01:55:54.539
Sorry, this pear has lasted me the whole episode.

1813
01:55:54.600 --> 01:55:56.220
I've been sort of nibbling it for a while.

1814
01:55:56.279 --> 01:55:59.039
But very quietly, so it doesn't appear on the mic, you know?

1815
01:55:59.100 --> 01:55:59.579
Yeah, okay.

1816
01:55:59.640 --> 01:56:10.560
Um, So I'm going to say, oh, yeah, I'm much more on board with watching Kurtzman Trope these days and I think Strange New World turn the tide because we're Strange New World.

1817
01:56:10.680 --> 01:56:13.680
I got 3 Kurtzman Trek shows that I really like now.

1818
01:56:13.800 --> 01:56:17.460
Lower Decks, Prodigy and Strangely Wells.

1819
01:56:17.520 --> 01:56:22.260
And then I've got two, which I think are massively flawed, but interesting to talk about.

1820
01:56:22.859 --> 01:56:26.220
So I think series 3 of Picard was magnificent.

1821
01:56:26.279 --> 01:56:28.380
I thought it was absolutely everything it should have been.

1822
01:56:28.500 --> 01:56:33.180
It was like the film, the good film that that crew never got. you know.

1823
01:56:33.239 --> 01:56:33.899
So.

1824
01:56:34.260 --> 01:56:36.300
But it did play it safe.

1825
01:56:36.359 --> 01:56:38.279
Yeah, 0 yeah, yeah.

1826
01:56:38.340 --> 01:56:41.100
But they are allowed to after 2 seasons of not doing that.

1827
01:56:41.159 --> 01:56:48.539
It's just kind of like, oh, fuck it, we've got everyone and we will go to just the most absurd lengths to get them all back doing their thing.

1828
01:56:48.600 --> 01:56:51.239
You know, we'll have to go to...

1829
01:56:51.300 --> 01:56:52.560
On the bridge of the Enterprise?

1830
01:56:52.619 --> 01:56:53.279
Yeah, yeah.

1831
01:56:53.340 --> 01:56:53.760
All of that.

1832
01:56:53.819 --> 01:56:59.939
It's just like, okay, oh, fuck, they're doing the Enterprise D. That's so tremendous. like, yep, whatever. don't care.

1833
01:57:00.000 --> 01:57:02.039
Obviously, because it's all nostalgia.

1834
01:57:02.100 --> 01:57:08.399
But I was like, wow, so the big climax that we were leading to was precisely where we were in 1990 every week.

1835
01:57:09.119 --> 01:57:10.739
So good.

1836
01:57:11.279 --> 01:57:13.380
Which, you know what?

1837
01:57:13.439 --> 01:57:16.140
I think that says a lot about Next Generation and Picard.

1838
01:57:16.739 --> 01:57:22.680
It wasn't it wasn't going anywhere bold or experimental or new.

1839
01:57:22.739 --> 01:57:26.579
No, we are just going to lean into the past and do it very well.

1840
01:57:26.640 --> 01:57:30.479
I acknowledge, you know, in a way that was very satisfying for people.

1841
01:57:30.539 --> 01:57:39.720
Yeah, I mean, I think that 1st season tried to do things and failed in all sorts of ways that were kind of interesting.

1842
01:57:39.779 --> 01:58:01.020
I think the 2nd season has a real proper through line and the most brilliant thing about it is having ice, the villains, like having, you know, like the American state is the villain and you get all this sort of racism against Rios and stuff is pretty amazingly interesting, you know, so hot.

1843
01:58:01.079 --> 01:58:04.260
That's really why I wanted to watch it.

1844
01:58:04.319 --> 01:58:08.220
I mean, I could never fully get on board with series 3, just because they wrote out.

1845
01:58:08.220 --> 01:58:09.479
Because he was incredibly hot, man.

1846
01:58:10.739 --> 01:58:13.199
But then I loved Agnes as well. she was a great character.

1847
01:58:13.260 --> 01:58:14.819
So good, so brilliant.

1848
01:58:14.819 --> 01:58:15.600
I'm not like Rafi.

1849
01:58:15.659 --> 01:58:18.359
In fact, I think they assembled a really good cast of characters.

1850
01:58:18.420 --> 01:58:19.380
Yeah, yeah.

1851
01:58:19.439 --> 01:58:23.399
I'm glad that we got Raffi and 7 at the end, though, of Picard.

1852
01:58:23.460 --> 01:58:24.119
That was pretty good.

1853
01:58:24.180 --> 01:58:26.939
They're pretty awesome Yeah.

1854
01:58:27.000 --> 01:58:28.619
All right.

1855
01:58:29.039 --> 01:58:30.840
947.

1856
01:58:31.020 --> 01:58:32.340
Okay.

1857
01:58:32.399 --> 01:58:33.840
I should probably go to bed.

1858
01:58:33.899 --> 01:58:35.100
You should have a nap.

1859
01:58:35.279 --> 01:58:36.899
That was fun.

1860
01:58:36.960 --> 01:58:37.800
That was fun.

1861
01:58:37.859 --> 01:58:39.239
Oh, very fun.

1862
01:58:39.479 --> 01:58:40.199
I enjoyed that.

1863
01:58:40.260 --> 01:58:40.619
Yeah.

1864
01:58:40.680 --> 01:58:44.880
I kind of knew I would, because this is my passion, but, yeah.

1865
01:58:44.939 --> 01:58:48.119
Well, send me the thing and I will...