WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 21:40:53

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, we are back on Deep Space 9, and this is a big deal, I think.

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It's like a massive major arc 2 parter right in the middle of your

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favourite season of Star Trek, which is season 5 of Deep Space

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Nine.

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Yeah, I do, I think there is an argument to be made with D Space 9

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with every successive season, it got better and better.

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But my personal favourite season is series 5 because I think this

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is the point where they absolutely ace fantastic standalone

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episodes and fantastic arc episodes. 6 and 7.

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It's so arc-based that the standalone sort of fall to the wayside

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a little bit, whereas they get the balance just right here.

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Yeah, I mean, I'm kind of like those things, like the beginning of

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6 has like 6 parts or something, 6 or 7 weeks where we're not on

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the station.

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Dominion's in charge of it.

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And I think different things happen every week.

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Like, I think they get a good balance between serialised and and

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they do the incredible thing of changing the status quo of the

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show, which is something that, you know, neither of the 2 previous

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Star Trek series would ever have considered.

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I have to say that I really did enjoy this.

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And it's not normally what I look for in Star Trek, but it was

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really terrifically enjoyable.

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And I thought maybe part 2 was stronger than part one.

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I thought that this time round as well, and I've always gone the

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other way, thinking in pagetry shadow was the better of the two.

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I think this is really well paced in that it's a lot of setup in

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part one.

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And then it's just a bit relentless in part two, isn't it?

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And it's it's just sort of properly fun.

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And there was a couple of lines of dialogue throughout the thing

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that had me laughing out loud.

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Like they do funny jokes in Deep Space Night, but 90 Star Trek

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doesn't normally do clever dialogue, I think, and there were some

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really, really clever lines that I had to pay watching these.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Well, my favourite being, excuse me, gentlemen.

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Could you point me in the direction of the wormhole?

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That wasn't even my favourite.

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I think Cisco has a really terrific line.

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I you know, I just think the whole thing is pretty well judged and

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just terribly entertaining.

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And I do remember what it felt like at the time.

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You know, that 1st big 2 part of it had Tain in it that introduced

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him, like, and that being a massive deal.

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And then this following it up as well.

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Like I just kind of remember what that felt like at the time.

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What this is doing.

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This 2 part, and a lot of DS9 sort of big hissing episodes do is

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it's paying off stuff from the past while setting up stuff for the

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future.

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So the whole show's in flux in this two-parter.

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And I really like that.

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Yeah, you're right.

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We're paying off tane.

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We're dealing with the wharf Garak relationship, which has been

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very fracturous to this point, but can't remain so because

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basically Garak's about to join the crew and we can't have wolves

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sitting there scowling in the corner of the room. you know every 5

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minutes.

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And then this is essentially a massive prelude for a call to arms

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where like Cisco's going, you know, we've pushed back war for

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today and we're kind of thinking, well, you know, we've seen TNG.

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They're never going to go to war.

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Like, they always suggest that we're just on the brink of it, and

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then, of course, that's exactly where we go at the end of the

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season.

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Yeah, it is pretty incredible.

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And I think you're right about Deep Space 9 getting better season

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by season and it is that sort of weird idea that is promised by

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series one that it's an outpost in a distant corner of the galaxy

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that's not at all important.

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And that's kind of the story that the opening titles are telling

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as well.

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Like it's deserted and distant.

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But look what they've done with. that.

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Look what they've done with that because in the 2nd episode, Gowron

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goes, 5 years ago, nobody ever heard of Big Space 9.

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Now all our hopes rest here.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Well, I mean, that's the great thing about it is that they kind of

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go, actually, let's do a thing that Star Trek never did, which is

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change the status quo of the quadrant, I guess we're calling it

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now, during the run of it, and actually make the show very largely

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about that.

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And that's really fun and interesting because you can do things

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that would have been ruled out in previous Star Trek, I think.

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And so here we have, you know, the beginning of a massive invasion

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and the consequences of that is something that we're going to live

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with for ages.

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The last comparable thing we did, I think, was Scorpion part one

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where it looked like some huge change was going to take place in

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the premise of the show.

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And then it lasted a couple of episodes and we went back to sort

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of the same old nonsense every week.

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So this is pretty fun, I think.

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The one thing, obviously, we're talking about the big sweeping

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changes in the series and all the politics that are going on.

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The one thing we haven't mentioned is the characters.

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And if you will, I have a small prepared statement here, I did

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this the last time we did a big Dominion 2 parter, just to talk

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about why I thought the Dominion War was so good, but I really

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want to focus on because I think I remember reading a review of

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part one in Purgatory Shadow, where someone compared it

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unfavourably to Babylon 5, saying, oh, this is just like a Babylon

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5, 2 parter, but, you know, just loads of character stuff, and not

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as exciting..

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Whereas I think the characters are absolute, the biggest strength

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of DS9.

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That's my biggest in is my biggest draw. the reason why I keep

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watching.

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So if I, if I may, go on.

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This does go on a bit.

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So, yeah, you want to cut me off.

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It's fine.

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So what I've put here is it's the characters that make Dig Space 9

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shine. relationships that add richness, personality and personal

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stakes to all the politicking.

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Having a stationary setting means we have a series with

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consequences, but also relationships with form, evolve, surprise

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and delight.

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There are funny warm, deep friendships.

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There are love stories that are mature and fractuous and even

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tragic, ultimately.

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And there's long-standing adversaries built on years of hate.

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There's families everywhere.

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You've got the O'Briens, you've got Cisco, you've got Cork, Rom

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and Nog, but you've also got the family that's built during the

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show on the station.

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This is a show all about wastes and strays from all corners of the

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alpha quadrant ending up in a remote outpost together and learning

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to live with each other's differences.

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And it's how those characters learn to support each other while

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staying true to who they are, that make this the best and most

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dysfunctional family in the Star Trek universe.

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And then I just very quickly knocked off some pairings.

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Okay, so just think about these pairings as I knock them off very

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quickly.

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O'Brien and Bashir, Bashir and Garak, Garak and Odo, Odo and Quark

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Quark and Kira, Kira and Dax, Dax and Worf, Worf and Cisco, Cisco

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and Jake, Jake and Nog, Nog and Rom, Rom and Lisa, like all of

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those relationships bear massive fruit.

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And then you've got like a wealth of secondary characters as well

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that are just brilliant no matter who they're paired with.

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Thai win, Ducart, Weiune, Demar, Gowron, Martoc, Vic Fontaine

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Garak.

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Like, it's the characters that absolutely define this show.

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And I feel like they brought in the absolute best talent.

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They can find these sort of brilliant theatrical actors that can

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bring these characters alive, just a bit above naturalism with a

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lot of personality.

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And this is why I tune in.

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I just love the characters on this show and I think this two

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parter exemplifies why the characters are so good.

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Yeah, you see that trend starting with Pillar in Star Trek, the

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Next Generation, where it's kind of, if it's not about our

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characters, it's not a thing, and they have a rule where someone

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whose name appears in the opening titles has to be in literally

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every scene of Star Trek, the Next Generation, pretty much.

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Here, though, what they kind of do is they're able to lean into

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that even more because it stops being a procedural.

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It's not a show about space problems at all.

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It is a show about this place where these people live and it's

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much, much more like a soap opera.

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I think, than any other Star Trek.

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And that is in no way a criticism because I think soap operas are

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pretty great.

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And certainly a soap opera that has a lot of money and a lot of

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thought and good writers and stuff can be a very good piece of

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television.

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So here there's all kinds of preposterous soap opera conceits, like

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you know.

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Yeah, yeah, someone's been replaced by their look-alike on the

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station.

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I mean you could...

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That is literally step from Dallas, hasn't it?

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That's exactly it.

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Someone, it turns out is someone's secret father.

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Someone had a daughter who he was hiding and now is, you know

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being looked after by his mortal enemy and stuff.

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The villain of the show's daughter is trying to have it off with

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his worst enemy.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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All of that stuff is just classic soap and we care about it

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because we really like those characters and the stakes are kind of

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you know, important and they get involved in sort of fabulous

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space things which attracts us as well.

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So I think we get the best of both worlds.

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But you know, like the, the, I promise you, we'll go in in a 2nd

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because we've got 2 hours to talk about, but the massive strength

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of that.

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And I think some people were saying this as a weakness, is that

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because it's not a procedure, everybody, because it is a soap

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opera, it means then you get episodes like bar association, which

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is Rome, like, cool, having a union against Quark, and it really

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it's a really dramatic and funny episode, or you get something

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like, um, It's only a paper moon, which is a Vic Fontaine and Nog

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which is one of the most touching episodes of Star Trek, or

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something like looking for a palmark in all the wrong places where

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everyone's just trying to fuck each other that week, you know. and

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comedy and shoes.

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I think those episodes are fantastic and they're unique.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Look, I mean, sometimes a Star Trek will kind of go off concept a

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bit to do something like that.

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I mean, think about lower decks or data's day in Star Trek, the

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Next Generation.

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Night in Sick Bay.

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And I always appreciate those because I think it's actually quite

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nice to have an episode that isn't just about solving a space

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problem where we do something different.

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And here it's an entire show made of those things.

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And I think too, the other thing is the difference between this

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and Babylon 5 is that the writers here are discovering things

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about their characters and deciding to take them in different

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directions.

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And so, for instance, this wasn't part of a master plan that

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included a big war with the Klingons in series 4.

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It's just that they got wharf in and then had to do something with

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him and so decided to do that before the war.

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And then that gets taken at the end of the season and the

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beginning of this season and actually becomes, it turns out, part

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of the Dominion war, kind of in retrospect.

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And so we get all of this stuff where they're discovering things

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about the characters and learning what the actors are good at and

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writing to that.

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And I think that that's what we get, for instance, in Battlestar

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Galactica.

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And just in the best kind of television, I think, because

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televisions are weird, collaborative medium.

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It's vulnerable to things that are happening outside the world of

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the show.

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Love that, don't you?

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Yes, absolutely.

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When the real world hits the show and forces them to be creative

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in another direction.

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That's right.

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Terry's not coming back next year. you know.

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And so they have to do something about it.

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And they're doing that all the time on this show and I think it's

245
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really, really great.

246
00:12:39.059 --> 00:12:42.419
It shows in the way the show develops and that's what's

247
00:12:42.419 --> 00:12:43.139
interesting about it.

248
00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:47.220
They don't just start with a premise and churn out adventures in

249
00:12:47.220 --> 00:12:49.139
this particular setting.

250
00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:51.419
They do something quite different.

251
00:12:51.419 --> 00:12:54.539
And I think that that's what makes the show so special.

252
00:12:54.600 --> 00:12:59.639
And what's astonishing is when you then look back after series 7

253
00:12:59.639 --> 00:13:01.679
most of this improvisation looks deliberate.

254
00:13:01.740 --> 00:13:05.279
Occasionally, it's a little bit awkward, but as a body of work, it

255
00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:07.080
looks like a story that was pre-planner.

256
00:13:07.139 --> 00:13:08.399
We know they're just making this shit up.

257
00:13:08.460 --> 00:13:09.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

258
00:13:09.899 --> 00:13:13.259
Like, you can't, or it sort of turns up being in charge of

259
00:13:13.259 --> 00:13:17.759
whatever passes for Cardassia, you know, during this part of the

260
00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:20.519
show, and you can see the gears.

261
00:13:20.580 --> 00:13:21.360
Do you know what I mean?

262
00:13:21.419 --> 00:13:24.480
You can see kind of behind the scenes what's going on.

263
00:13:24.539 --> 00:13:28.019
But all of that's fun and that's also part of how a soap opera

264
00:13:28.019 --> 00:13:28.919
works too, I think.

265
00:13:28.980 --> 00:13:32.759
He's just had a, like, a whole season where he's defected from

266
00:13:32.759 --> 00:13:35.940
Cardassia and he's just going round in a Klingon ship.

267
00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:39.539
You know, I'm saying, I'm going to bring down the marquee and all

268
00:13:39.539 --> 00:13:40.019
on my own.

269
00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:43.379
And you're like, okay, they're done. sure what to do with him at

270
00:13:43.379 --> 00:13:43.679
this point.

271
00:13:43.740 --> 00:13:44.759
And then they've gone right.

272
00:13:44.820 --> 00:13:47.759
Actually, he's going to make secret negotiations with the Dominion

273
00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:50.279
and then he's going to usurp the throne and be the head of

274
00:13:50.279 --> 00:13:51.419
Cardassia again, you know.

275
00:13:51.480 --> 00:13:52.799
And we're...

276
00:13:52.860 --> 00:13:53.639
We love him.

277
00:13:53.700 --> 00:13:54.779
So we love it when he does that.

278
00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:56.279
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

279
00:13:56.460 --> 00:13:58.980
We probably should watch this thing, you know.

280
00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:00.539
I think we should let's go in.

281
00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:02.460
So I will count us in.

282
00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:09.120
Five, four, three, two, one and we're off.

283
00:14:12.179 --> 00:14:13.740
In memory of Derek golf.

284
00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:15.120
Yeah, I didn't look that up.

285
00:14:15.179 --> 00:14:16.679
I don't know who that is, I'm afraid.

286
00:14:16.740 --> 00:14:18.539
I think it was somebody on the production team.

287
00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:21.000
Read, but I didn't quite see who it was.

288
00:14:21.059 --> 00:14:27.899
Ah, so now Odo is rearranging his quarters because for a period

289
00:14:27.899 --> 00:14:28.919
he's been a solid.

290
00:14:28.980 --> 00:14:33.419
That was his punishment at the end of series four, but now he's

291
00:14:33.419 --> 00:14:35.580
you remember that fabulous scene where it becomes the bird on the

292
00:14:35.580 --> 00:14:36.179
promenade.

293
00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:39.600
The little baby changeling, gave him his regenerative powers

294
00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:40.379
back.

295
00:14:40.500 --> 00:14:43.740
It was a totally cod explanation, but it was a nice moment.

296
00:14:43.799 --> 00:14:46.259
So now he doesn't need a bed anymore, basically.

297
00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:47.879
Yeah, yeah.

298
00:14:47.940 --> 00:14:52.200
And he's got that jungle gym that he kind of wraps himself around

299
00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:53.399
in and stuff like that.

300
00:14:53.639 --> 00:14:58.620
Yes, and this is kind of a funny scene because in fact, what this

301
00:14:58.620 --> 00:15:04.500
episode does is it just checks in with all of the characters and

302
00:15:04.500 --> 00:15:07.860
it's like it's kind of nice.

303
00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:08.519
Look at this.

304
00:15:08.580 --> 00:15:11.460
This is purely about their relationship.

305
00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:14.460
So we spend a little bit of time.

306
00:15:14.519 --> 00:15:17.580
Odo's kind of embarrassed because he was going to be humanoid

307
00:15:17.580 --> 00:15:20.279
which meant he was going to have to like have sex with people or

308
00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:20.759
something.

309
00:15:20.820 --> 00:15:21.720
Do you know what I mean?

310
00:15:21.779 --> 00:15:25.019
Or would have to have a sort of normal relationship rather than a

311
00:15:25.019 --> 00:15:27.240
sort of squishy gelatinous relationship?

312
00:15:27.299 --> 00:15:32.220
And so it's just about that, but it also gives these 2 a chance to

313
00:15:32.220 --> 00:15:33.480
act opposite one another.

314
00:15:33.539 --> 00:15:36.539
But even this, like they improvise this completely, this

315
00:15:36.539 --> 00:15:39.240
relationship because, but they never let you forget it.

316
00:15:39.299 --> 00:15:40.919
So here he's a bit embarrassing.

317
00:15:40.919 --> 00:15:42.299
She's going, you know, give women a chance.

318
00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:43.080
You might enjoy it.

319
00:15:43.139 --> 00:15:45.539
You know, keep reading the book and he's really embarrassed

320
00:15:45.539 --> 00:15:46.500
because he's in love with her.

321
00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:50.940
We know that at this point And then Children of Time hits and she

322
00:15:50.940 --> 00:15:54.899
finds out about that, then call her arms hits and she says, look

323
00:15:54.899 --> 00:15:57.240
let's put this all aside and just focus on the war.

324
00:15:57.240 --> 00:16:01.919
And then his way hits and, well, shit hits the fan then.

325
00:16:01.980 --> 00:16:07.980
And I think too, we are going to get just a little bit of stuff

326
00:16:07.980 --> 00:16:09.779
about the recent pregnancy.

327
00:16:09.840 --> 00:16:13.379
And that was a conversation that I thought was really genuinely

328
00:16:13.379 --> 00:16:13.799
funny.

329
00:16:13.860 --> 00:16:16.740
So again, we're just checking in on this sort of recent

330
00:16:16.740 --> 00:16:19.379
preposterous soap opera development.

331
00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:22.080
You know, the thing that they came up with to deal with.

332
00:16:22.139 --> 00:16:24.000
The fact that Nana was actually pregnant.

333
00:16:24.059 --> 00:16:26.519
I was just shocked that they made a far joke.

334
00:16:26.580 --> 00:16:28.080
It's probably gas.

335
00:16:29.700 --> 00:16:33.899
But I just think I think it's really fun.

336
00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:35.759
I think that it's super adorable.

337
00:16:35.820 --> 00:16:36.840
It's probably gas.

338
00:16:36.899 --> 00:16:40.019
Well, and a lot of people said that was that damaged her character

339
00:16:40.019 --> 00:16:42.480
a bit, having her moving in with the O'Briens and have the baby

340
00:16:42.539 --> 00:16:43.440
loved all that stuff.

341
00:16:43.500 --> 00:16:46.740
Yeah, so we talked about that because we did look in with Palmark

342
00:16:46.740 --> 00:16:50.220
in all the wrong places and that happens kind of in the middle of

343
00:16:50.220 --> 00:16:50.460
that.

344
00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:56.340
Um, but doesn't she, oh, O'Brien will come in and that's when that

345
00:16:56.340 --> 00:16:59.340
part of the conversation happens, which I just think is adorably

346
00:16:59.340 --> 00:16:59.759
clever.

347
00:16:59.820 --> 00:17:01.679
Like, he had a way.

348
00:17:01.740 --> 00:17:03.179
So this is New Zealand.

349
00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:06.119
This is the 3rd ZR that we've had, and this is the one we'll stay

350
00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:07.799
with for 6 episodes.

351
00:17:07.859 --> 00:17:10.319
Can I tell you something really funny about that, though?

352
00:17:10.380 --> 00:17:11.819
This is Melanie Smith, right?

353
00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:15.059
was like, okay, so this is like the 3rd cigar we've had.

354
00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:19.440
He goes, it goes, and I really wish I'd stuck to my guns because I

355
00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:21.660
kept saying to them, well, look, let's just recast her in every

356
00:17:21.660 --> 00:17:22.019
episode.

357
00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:26.460
Just to remind people of the artifice that we're making a TV show

358
00:17:26.460 --> 00:17:28.380
and no one would go with it.

359
00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:29.700
No, we found a good actress now.

360
00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:33.240
We're going with it Yes, I think maybe that would have been taking

361
00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:37.440
it a bit far, although I am broadly supportive of the principle.

362
00:17:37.500 --> 00:17:41.640
I think she's kind of, I don't really remember the other two.

363
00:17:41.700 --> 00:17:45.299
I think it's the 1st one is in the episode where she turns up in

364
00:17:45.299 --> 00:17:48.480
and then there's a, yeah, and there's a 2nd one who does like

365
00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:50.759
maybe 2 episodes, 2 or three.

366
00:17:50.819 --> 00:17:52.920
It was the one where that establishes her relationship with

367
00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:56.519
Garrett because she's off to the Kardashian Saunders in the Holla

368
00:17:56.519 --> 00:17:57.599
Suites and Garrett's.

369
00:17:57.660 --> 00:18:00.180
She invites him along and he thinks that she's going to kill him

370
00:18:00.180 --> 00:18:01.799
because she's going to cut storm.

371
00:18:01.859 --> 00:18:05.279
And in fact, no, she just wants a friend and then you get a scene

372
00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:08.039
where Kira comes along, shuts him against the wall and says, if

373
00:18:08.039 --> 00:18:09.779
you hurt her, I'll kill you, all right?

374
00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:17.279
And so they decide that I think they're probably working even at

375
00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:21.180
this point, aren't they working towards having her die in the

376
00:18:21.180 --> 00:18:24.180
opening episodes of series 6?

377
00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:28.079
And so they're giving us more of her and trying to make her more

378
00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:31.140
likeable so that that lands when it eventually happens.

379
00:18:31.380 --> 00:18:36.660
Like, it's sad, but we were never going to have Garak having a gay

380
00:18:36.660 --> 00:18:37.980
relationship on this show.

381
00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:41.519
Like and he's totally coded as gay when he's introduced.

382
00:18:41.579 --> 00:18:43.019
He's campus hell.

383
00:18:43.079 --> 00:18:47.099
He's coming onto Bashir, you know, and I still think he plays it

384
00:18:47.099 --> 00:18:50.279
that way, and I do like his relationship with Zel, because he's a

385
00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:53.519
little bit awkward and tentative about it, and there's an age gap

386
00:18:53.519 --> 00:18:53.819
as well.

387
00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:55.500
Like the whole thing is a bit awkward.

388
00:18:55.559 --> 00:18:57.180
But there is a connection there.

389
00:18:57.240 --> 00:18:58.980
Yeah, yeah.

390
00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:04.680
I have to say that I really like the fact that Julian isn't fooled

391
00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:06.180
by any of Garak's crap.

392
00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:10.859
So Garak has said, you know, the message that we received.

393
00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:16.920
So all of the Romulans, like heaps of Romulans and Cardassians go

394
00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:23.880
into the, uh, into the Gamma Quadrant in probable cause, is that?

395
00:19:23.940 --> 00:19:25.559
Improbable causing the dire's cost.

396
00:19:25.619 --> 00:19:27.960
Yeah. a big fleet goes off to the Dominion planet.

397
00:19:28.019 --> 00:19:31.559
They try and bomb the planet and in fact, one of the Romulans on

398
00:19:31.559 --> 00:19:32.460
the ship is a founder.

399
00:19:32.519 --> 00:19:35.700
They set the whole thing up, the Gemma Dark come along, surround

400
00:19:35.700 --> 00:19:40.859
them, and blast the fleet to ship, and Tain's among them, is that

401
00:19:40.859 --> 00:19:41.039
right?

402
00:19:41.099 --> 00:19:42.420
Yeah, so we think he's dead.

403
00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:43.200
Yeah.

404
00:19:43.259 --> 00:19:47.160
And so this is a message in Cardassian, which is actually from

405
00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:49.740
Tain, but when Garak receives it.

406
00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:53.940
He lies, but because Julian knows him so well, you know, he's

407
00:19:53.940 --> 00:19:57.599
waiting for him in the runabout that he's trying to steal, which I

408
00:19:57.599 --> 00:19:58.859
think again is pretty good.

409
00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:03.299
And again, all of these scenes, we've had what, we've had 3 scenes

410
00:20:03.299 --> 00:20:06.900
now and they've all just been about the relationships between the

411
00:20:06.900 --> 00:20:10.799
characters, just checking in on everyone, but we have kind of

412
00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:12.000
progressed the plot as well.

413
00:20:12.059 --> 00:20:13.619
The plot is moving, yeah.

414
00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:14.940
I like the way Garak says.

415
00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:18.119
And if Captain Cisco wants any more help. deciphering anymore

416
00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:20.579
Cardassian laundry lists, let him know I'm available.

417
00:20:21.059 --> 00:20:23.700
It's just like not for a 2nd.

418
00:20:23.819 --> 00:20:25.500
Do you believe that he's been telling the truth?

419
00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:29.220
You know, it should have been a big clue, actually, that Bashir

420
00:20:29.220 --> 00:20:31.859
was a changeloom because he's not usually this savvy, is he?

421
00:20:32.039 --> 00:20:33.660
That's right.

422
00:20:33.720 --> 00:20:37.440
Well, he's not a changing at the moment as far as we know.

423
00:20:37.500 --> 00:20:40.079
And so how telegraphed was that?

424
00:20:40.140 --> 00:20:40.740
Do we know?

425
00:20:40.980 --> 00:20:42.839
No, no, no.

426
00:20:42.900 --> 00:20:47.400
So the 1st we know of it is when he's revealed in this episode, but

427
00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:51.480
it's obviously taken place for, so Bashir's been a changing for at

428
00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:55.200
least 4 episodes because Rapture, which was 4 episodes. was when

429
00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:58.079
they changed the uniforms and he's wearing the old uniform.

430
00:20:58.140 --> 00:21:00.359
And I thought that was really great.

431
00:21:00.420 --> 00:21:04.259
So we do get a reference to the recent stuff with a Borg.

432
00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:06.839
So we get a reference to 1st contact.

433
00:21:06.900 --> 00:21:10.259
So that's clearly been recently, and we've switched over the

434
00:21:10.259 --> 00:21:11.339
uniform.

435
00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:15.599
So this is now the 3rd Starfleet uniform or maybe the 4th since

436
00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:17.880
the beginning of Star Trek, the next generation.

437
00:21:17.940 --> 00:21:20.039
They do change uniforms an awful lot.

438
00:21:20.099 --> 00:21:21.539
I do prefer these uniforms, though.

439
00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:24.960
I just feel they look a bit more military, but to go into the war

440
00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:25.440
you know?

441
00:21:25.500 --> 00:21:29.099
Yeah, I mean, I think they I think that they look pretty good and

442
00:21:29.099 --> 00:21:32.220
I kind of like, yeah, yeah.

443
00:21:32.279 --> 00:21:34.799
Although the Voyager ones are perfectly good too, I think.

444
00:21:35.460 --> 00:21:37.619
Yeah, yeah.

445
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:40.200
So this is Garak telling you the truth now.

446
00:21:40.259 --> 00:21:41.519
I know it.

447
00:21:41.579 --> 00:21:42.720
I have to go and find him.

448
00:21:42.779 --> 00:21:46.920
And I think maybe maybe because it's Bashir, he will open up or he

449
00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:47.819
thinks it's Bashir.

450
00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:48.839
Yeah.

451
00:21:48.900 --> 00:21:49.619
Yeah.

452
00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:51.480
And so that's a big surprise next season.

453
00:21:51.539 --> 00:21:54.059
I think it's a really good one and I do think that using the

454
00:21:54.059 --> 00:21:57.299
uniform to kind of indicate it is very clever.

455
00:21:57.359 --> 00:21:59.039
And I was wondering when they changed uniforms.

456
00:21:59.099 --> 00:22:01.259
So they change in the middle of the season, like not.

457
00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:03.779
Yeah, you can almost see the writers having a light bulb moment.

458
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:07.079
Like, okay, see, we'll make for sure a change, saying, oh, my God

459
00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:09.599
we've changed the uniform, so we can indicate this has been a long

460
00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:09.779
time.

461
00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:11.339
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

462
00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:14.640
And I think, like what they must do is they must decide to make

463
00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:21.779
Deep Space 9 used the 1st contact uniforms and leave Voyager not

464
00:22:21.779 --> 00:22:24.839
in those uniforms to kind of differentiate them to give them a

465
00:22:24.839 --> 00:22:26.579
different look, which I think works quite well.

466
00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:29.940
Oh, Nathan, I love that bit as well, where you go, all right, well

467
00:22:29.940 --> 00:22:30.420
then, let's go.

468
00:22:30.420 --> 00:22:32.099
To Captain Cisco.

469
00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:34.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

470
00:22:34.140 --> 00:22:37.619
But I think he gets a great line here.

471
00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:42.960
Cisco doesn't actually seem to get that much to do in this to

472
00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:43.619
parter.

473
00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:48.180
He's in a bit, but, you know, it's mostly happening with the other

474
00:22:48.180 --> 00:22:50.940
characters and a lot of it's happening off the station

475
00:22:50.940 --> 00:22:51.839
particularly in part two.

476
00:22:51.900 --> 00:22:56.759
That would bother me, but in the next 2.5 years, Cisco gets a shit

477
00:22:56.759 --> 00:22:57.299
ton to do.

478
00:22:57.359 --> 00:22:58.740
Oh, yeah, yeah.

479
00:22:58.799 --> 00:22:59.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

480
00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:03.000
No, I'm not worried. does make the show different from other Star

481
00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:06.839
Treks, but he gets a really clever line at the end of this scene

482
00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:08.039
which I thought was really great.

483
00:23:08.099 --> 00:23:09.779
I love all of this.

484
00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:13.980
Garak, it talks such bullshit. you know, this is a mission of

485
00:23:13.980 --> 00:23:14.400
mercy.

486
00:23:14.460 --> 00:23:17.819
All those people that we lost to the dominionship.

487
00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:19.680
There could be survivors out there, captain.

488
00:23:19.740 --> 00:23:20.880
You know, you owe it to them.

489
00:23:20.940 --> 00:23:26.640
But he doesn't expect to be believed, I think, and he isn't

490
00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:27.299
really.

491
00:23:27.660 --> 00:23:29.220
So...

492
00:23:30.299 --> 00:23:33.420
The best the best bullshit he gives is when he tries to convince

493
00:23:33.420 --> 00:23:33.779
Wolf.

494
00:23:33.779 --> 00:23:35.700
He wants to join Starfleet Academy.

495
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:38.220
I think that's a good scene and we'll talk about it when we get

496
00:23:38.220 --> 00:23:40.200
there. that's really particularly good.

497
00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:45.059
So who goes with him?

498
00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:46.440
Wolf?

499
00:23:46.500 --> 00:23:47.579
Ah, here we go.

500
00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:52.920
And so that's this again is just checking in with characters, isn't

501
00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:53.039
it?

502
00:23:53.099 --> 00:23:58.680
Well, it is, and it's about time too, because they 1st got it on

503
00:23:58.680 --> 00:24:00.539
and looking for a palmark in all the wrong places.

504
00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:06.660
Then we had, unfortunately, let he, who is without sin...

505
00:24:06.660 --> 00:24:09.420
A couple of episodes, which was terrible, and it really did a bit

506
00:24:09.420 --> 00:24:12.420
of damage to the sort of credibility of Dax and Wharf.

507
00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:16.500
And now here, they're like, okay, well, you need to give this just

508
00:24:16.500 --> 00:24:17.759
a scene or a bit of focus.

509
00:24:17.819 --> 00:24:21.299
And I like this because she's doing what I'll do in my other

510
00:24:21.299 --> 00:24:21.660
Ralph.

511
00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:22.500
She ribbing at him.

512
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:24.539
You know, she's annoying him in every way possible.

513
00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:26.940
And then at the end of the scene, there's a bit of passion.

514
00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:27.779
She just snogs him.

515
00:24:27.839 --> 00:24:31.680
I like the threat to his collection as well.

516
00:24:31.740 --> 00:24:34.740
And this is something else.

517
00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:39.900
You know, he has a very carefully curated collection of media that

518
00:24:39.900 --> 00:24:40.980
he really likes.

519
00:24:41.099 --> 00:24:43.500
And she says, I'm going to borrow it.

520
00:24:43.500 --> 00:24:45.000
And who knows?

521
00:24:45.059 --> 00:24:47.400
You know, I could look...

522
00:24:47.460 --> 00:24:48.960
You have a tendency to like, whatever.

523
00:24:50.099 --> 00:24:56.579
And it's kind of like her low level kind of way of manipulating

524
00:24:56.579 --> 00:24:57.779
him to come back.

525
00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:00.420
And I like that.

526
00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:04.799
And one of the things that happens here too is that a lot of these

527
00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:09.900
scenes have corresponding scenes in part 2 that pay off.

528
00:25:09.960 --> 00:25:11.700
And so this gets paid off.

529
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:13.019
It doesn't get forgotten.

530
00:25:13.079 --> 00:25:17.220
I also like, as well, I said in my little speech at the beginning

531
00:25:17.220 --> 00:25:20.339
of the episode, that I like the fact that they're allowed to be

532
00:25:20.339 --> 00:25:23.460
their own cult, like people respect each other's cultures.

533
00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:25.680
And she says to him at the end of the day, saying, have a glorious

534
00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:26.279
death or not.

535
00:25:26.339 --> 00:25:26.940
It's up to you.

536
00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:30.240
But she's respecting the fact that he's a Klingon and he's going

537
00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:31.799
off into a dangerous situation.

538
00:25:31.859 --> 00:25:32.460
I like that.

539
00:25:32.819 --> 00:25:34.619
She's so good.

540
00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:35.700
Holy crap.

541
00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:37.559
I don't know if you recall in TNG.

542
00:25:37.619 --> 00:25:40.859
They spent most of TNG telling Wolf, you know, you need to stop

543
00:25:40.859 --> 00:25:44.160
thinking like a Klingon and, you know, start behaving like a human

544
00:25:44.160 --> 00:25:44.400
being.

545
00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:45.839
Well, he's not a human being.

546
00:25:45.900 --> 00:25:46.559
No.

547
00:25:46.619 --> 00:25:50.400
Well, and and he doesn't get that because we're not doing a

548
00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:54.960
procedural and he doesn't have to be there to say that um, say

549
00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:56.640
things that are wrong all the time.

550
00:25:56.700 --> 00:25:58.140
He doesn't have to be wrong all the time.

551
00:25:58.200 --> 00:26:03.779
Do you know this is the only episode of Deep Space 9 to be

552
00:26:03.779 --> 00:26:04.559
directed by a woman?

553
00:26:04.680 --> 00:26:05.940
Wow.

554
00:26:06.059 --> 00:26:07.740
Gabrielle Beaumont.

555
00:26:07.799 --> 00:26:10.140
Yeah, she did a couple of TNGs and she did this.

556
00:26:10.200 --> 00:26:14.700
She did, I think she might have done Voyager as well, one on some

557
00:26:14.700 --> 00:26:15.240
Voyager.

558
00:26:15.299 --> 00:26:16.200
Did she?

559
00:26:16.259 --> 00:26:17.160
She might have done.

560
00:26:17.220 --> 00:26:18.480
She did a handful.

561
00:26:18.539 --> 00:26:19.140
She didn't do many.

562
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:19.920
Yeah.

563
00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:23.700
But apparently the castle, they really responded well to her.

564
00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:26.160
They should have had a room for more because I think she's she's

565
00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:27.480
got a good hand with the actors in this.

566
00:26:27.539 --> 00:26:31.019
Well, and this is absolutely just an actor's piece.

567
00:26:31.079 --> 00:26:33.660
There's been no action so far, has there?

568
00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:34.680
We are just talking.

569
00:26:34.740 --> 00:26:39.359
And we haven't even had any kind of opticals, like no special

570
00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:40.859
effects at all yet.

571
00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:43.799
And they are scarce throughout this two-parter.

572
00:26:43.859 --> 00:26:45.900
I didn't really mind. everyone is.

573
00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:47.880
Like again, I know all that's coming.

574
00:26:47.940 --> 00:26:50.339
We're going to have some spectacle at the end of the season and

575
00:26:50.339 --> 00:26:51.420
certainly in the next 2 years.

576
00:26:51.539 --> 00:26:57.299
Oh, and we get a big, a big special effect shot is the climax of

577
00:26:57.299 --> 00:26:58.200
the 1st episode.

578
00:26:58.259 --> 00:26:59.759
I love that.

579
00:26:59.880 --> 00:27:00.660
Yeah, so much.

580
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:01.259
Yeah, yeah.

581
00:27:01.319 --> 00:27:02.400
Yeah, it's pretty cool.

582
00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:03.599
Tell you about when I 1st watched that.

583
00:27:03.660 --> 00:27:06.420
Yeah, and there's plenty of stuff going on in the 2nd part.

584
00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:08.880
Like, I think there are more sort of establishing shots and stuff

585
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:10.920
like that. certainly a lot of fights.

586
00:27:10.980 --> 00:27:11.880
Yeah.

587
00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:12.539
Yeah.

588
00:27:12.599 --> 00:27:15.059
I was thinking about that because, you know, we were just doing

589
00:27:15.059 --> 00:27:19.019
Star Trek, the original series and we're talking about how like a

590
00:27:19.019 --> 00:27:19.799
fistfighters.

591
00:27:19.859 --> 00:27:21.539
Here we go. bit of action.

592
00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:22.319
Oh, yes.

593
00:27:22.500 --> 00:27:24.119
Now look.

594
00:27:24.180 --> 00:27:28.259
You know and I know that this show is gold.

595
00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:31.319
If you've got Dukat and Garak in the same scene.

596
00:27:31.380 --> 00:27:32.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

597
00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:38.160
I like it when so Garak's literally been thrown almost off the

598
00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:41.700
edge of Quark's bar there onto the double table and he gets up and

599
00:27:41.700 --> 00:27:42.539
he goes, you know what?

600
00:27:42.599 --> 00:27:44.099
I think that actually helped my back.

601
00:27:46.619 --> 00:27:52.680
So this is so Garak, again, we're checking in with Garak because

602
00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:56.099
his character is about to change quite substantially.

603
00:27:56.160 --> 00:27:59.940
And so you said that, because they do refer to his bird of prey

604
00:27:59.940 --> 00:28:04.140
and I had had to think, well, why he has a bird of prey.

605
00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:07.799
So they refer to that in dialogue and then here, you know, he's

606
00:28:07.799 --> 00:28:10.200
clearly been on the station and stuff like that.

607
00:28:10.259 --> 00:28:14.099
He's not that adversarial character who kind of checks in on the

608
00:28:14.099 --> 00:28:17.640
TV, which he's going to go back to being.

609
00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:22.980
And I think the scene with him and Kira is really great as well.

610
00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:27.839
I mean, they're always good, but I mean, I think I think some of

611
00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:30.539
the things between Dukat and Kira during the occupation arc at the

612
00:28:30.539 --> 00:28:33.720
beginning of 6 are probably the best stuff they ever had because

613
00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:37.319
he's in a position of power over her there and they just sizzle

614
00:28:37.319 --> 00:28:37.799
those themes.

615
00:28:37.859 --> 00:28:41.220
Here, it's about as far away from that as possible.

616
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:42.539
She doesn't even acknowledge him.

617
00:28:42.599 --> 00:28:43.319
Yeah.

618
00:28:43.380 --> 00:28:43.859
Yeah.

619
00:28:43.859 --> 00:28:45.180
How about this?

620
00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:48.299
The thing that occurs to me is that in discovery, of course, the

621
00:28:48.299 --> 00:28:53.940
president of the Federation is like she's human mostly, but she

622
00:28:53.940 --> 00:28:57.299
has some Bajoran and some Cardassian.

623
00:28:57.359 --> 00:29:02.160
And so there's a sort of like Ziel's makeup isn't a 1000000 miles

624
00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:03.660
away from her makeup.

625
00:29:03.660 --> 00:29:06.720
And it is a sort of striking visual, isn't it?

626
00:29:06.779 --> 00:29:13.920
Just because, you know, just because of...

627
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:15.660
Yeah, as well. yeah, yeah, yeah.

628
00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:16.380
Yeah.

629
00:29:16.440 --> 00:29:17.819
Oh, God.

630
00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:21.359
The way it might be like that, I assume that's a joke.

631
00:29:21.420 --> 00:29:23.160
And that he says we will see.

632
00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:27.420
And the way he delivers the line, like there's no way of telling

633
00:29:27.420 --> 00:29:31.799
if it's a joke or not, because that's how Worf talks.

634
00:29:31.859 --> 00:29:33.180
It's really clever.

635
00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:34.740
It's really well judged.

636
00:29:34.799 --> 00:29:36.539
At the 1st sight of deception.

637
00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:37.319
I will kill them.

638
00:29:37.380 --> 00:29:38.160
I will kill him.

639
00:29:38.220 --> 00:29:40.440
I will bring somebody back intact.

640
00:29:40.500 --> 00:29:42.420
It's really good.

641
00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:45.000
The 2 of them, they're just perfectly written for.

642
00:29:45.059 --> 00:29:46.920
And then this...

643
00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:50.279
Oh, I think the dialogue in this scene is blissful.

644
00:29:50.339 --> 00:29:55.619
I actually think that it does make, just for the sake of the joke

645
00:29:55.619 --> 00:29:59.099
just so that it lands, it makes Wolf a bit too stupid.

646
00:29:59.160 --> 00:30:01.259
Well, wharf's always stupid.

647
00:30:01.319 --> 00:30:05.400
I know, but it's fairly clear to us, I think, that he's just

648
00:30:05.400 --> 00:30:07.920
tormenting wharf.

649
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:13.440
And Worf buys it a little bit too easily, I think.

650
00:30:13.500 --> 00:30:16.380
I think they should have allowed him to be more sceptical.

651
00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:18.960
But it is really funny.

652
00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:23.339
And of course, the reason this scene is here is because of where

653
00:30:23.339 --> 00:30:26.460
these characters end up at the end of episode two, which I think

654
00:30:26.460 --> 00:30:27.119
is so good.

655
00:30:27.240 --> 00:30:31.859
I don't know if you remember in series, the series 4 finale, Broken

656
00:30:31.859 --> 00:30:34.740
Link. When they're at the Changeling Planet.

657
00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:38.579
Remember Odo's sort of turning into gloops and they go back to the

658
00:30:38.579 --> 00:30:39.359
change in planet?

659
00:30:39.420 --> 00:30:45.180
And Garak, in revenge for Tain, so it's tied into this again, tries

660
00:30:45.180 --> 00:30:49.619
to take control of the defiance torpedoes to nuke the planet and

661
00:30:49.619 --> 00:30:52.380
wharf catches him and they have a massive fight.

662
00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:57.299
It ends with Wharf going, you fight well for a tailor.

663
00:30:57.720 --> 00:31:02.160
It's a great scene, but it really shows that there is this sort of

664
00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:04.980
fiery hatred between these 2 characters.

665
00:31:05.039 --> 00:31:07.319
And they needed to address that here.

666
00:31:07.380 --> 00:31:10.140
So I think this is really good at establishing it and like you say

667
00:31:10.140 --> 00:31:13.680
after they've both proven their worth to each other in the 2nd

668
00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:16.859
episode, then we acknowledge that actually things are different

669
00:31:16.859 --> 00:31:17.160
now.

670
00:31:17.220 --> 00:31:20.759
Yeah, I mean, I think we enjoy watching Garak, but if you are

671
00:31:20.759 --> 00:31:23.460
going to make him irregular and basically treat him like one of

672
00:31:23.460 --> 00:31:27.900
the team, I think that we need to see that he's good in terms that

673
00:31:27.900 --> 00:31:32.099
we understand, you know, that he's a good person, you know, I

674
00:31:32.099 --> 00:31:36.119
think we've occasionally seen that even of Quark, you know, that

675
00:31:36.119 --> 00:31:39.839
he is in lots of ways, a much better person than he would like to

676
00:31:39.839 --> 00:31:40.259
admit.

677
00:31:41.220 --> 00:31:44.759
What's wonderful about this scene between Dakart and Kira, apart

678
00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:48.779
from the performances, which are great, is obviously he knows he's

679
00:31:48.779 --> 00:31:50.519
about to sell them out to the Dominions.

680
00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:54.119
And he knows that threatening her has consequences.

681
00:31:54.180 --> 00:31:55.920
She has no clue.

682
00:31:55.980 --> 00:31:56.400
No idea.

683
00:31:56.460 --> 00:31:57.900
Yeah, yeah.

684
00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:00.839
And in fact, she's absolutely dismissive.

685
00:32:00.900 --> 00:32:06.420
There's a wonderful reaction here when he starts threatening and

686
00:32:06.420 --> 00:32:09.660
she is just absolutely indifferent to it.

687
00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:13.859
Like, you know, I think and she plays it really well.

688
00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:15.480
She plays it really, really well.

689
00:32:15.539 --> 00:32:16.920
These 2 are always great.

690
00:32:16.980 --> 00:32:19.920
Well, it's the line, he goes, when he goes, there was a time when

691
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:24.359
Bajorans took Cardassian threats very seriously, and she just goes

692
00:32:24.359 --> 00:32:25.019
yeah, not anymore.

693
00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:27.299
Yeah, yeah, it's really good. isn't it?

694
00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:28.559
It's really good.

695
00:32:28.619 --> 00:32:31.740
But I think this team works even better after seeing the 2nd

696
00:32:31.740 --> 00:32:32.039
episode.

697
00:32:32.279 --> 00:32:35.880
And I think it's credible as well.

698
00:32:35.940 --> 00:32:39.720
Like, I think that, like, you're having an argument about whether

699
00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:44.700
Ziel is allowed to have this relationship with Garak, and I want

700
00:32:44.700 --> 00:32:50.579
to hear, I think, that Kira thinks it's a bad idea, but, you know

701
00:32:50.579 --> 00:32:53.519
she's not going to intervene because, yeah, as a young woman and

702
00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:57.420
you know, that's not how you bring someone up or how you look

703
00:32:57.420 --> 00:32:59.099
after a young adult.

704
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:04.500
And what was interesting was when Descartes basically gave the out

705
00:33:04.500 --> 00:33:07.019
to Kira to look after on the station.

706
00:33:07.079 --> 00:33:11.339
He even says it's it's great because now I've got a link to you

707
00:33:11.339 --> 00:33:13.380
because it's always had this thing for Kira.

708
00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:18.420
It's always sort of bubbling under this sort of, um, uh, want he

709
00:33:18.420 --> 00:33:18.960
has for her.

710
00:33:19.019 --> 00:33:22.500
And now this is like the ultimate betrayal that...

711
00:33:22.500 --> 00:33:23.819
It's worst enemy.

712
00:33:23.880 --> 00:33:27.779
No, her line, if that's a threat, I'm not impressed.

713
00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:30.240
Like it's really good.

714
00:33:30.299 --> 00:33:32.099
It's really good.

715
00:33:32.339 --> 00:33:36.839
And you know, like Kira's, Kira's not in this an enormous amount.

716
00:33:36.900 --> 00:33:39.119
Like she, but I think when she is in.

717
00:33:39.180 --> 00:33:42.839
Like, I love the bit at the end of the episode where she's like

718
00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:44.759
saying, well, what about the Celestial Temple?

719
00:33:44.819 --> 00:33:47.759
Yeah, you know, like this is what you want to destroy.

720
00:33:47.819 --> 00:33:51.480
And my favourite bit was where she took the chair in episode two.

721
00:33:51.539 --> 00:33:55.440
She took the Defiant and I'm thinking, well, we've come a long way

722
00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:57.599
from to turn about intruder, haven't we?

723
00:33:57.660 --> 00:33:59.339
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

724
00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:03.059
And can I say, none of this time I was been watching some

725
00:34:03.059 --> 00:34:06.119
convention anecdotes recently and none of visitors on stage there

726
00:34:06.119 --> 00:34:10.019
going, every time I got to take the chair, you know, I felt so

727
00:34:10.019 --> 00:34:11.519
powerful and in control.

728
00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:14.460
And she goes, and there was Renee, obviously, while next to me

729
00:34:14.460 --> 00:34:17.280
going, na, you know this is not real, right?

730
00:34:17.340 --> 00:34:19.679
You're not really in command of a spaceship.

731
00:34:19.860 --> 00:34:22.800
Let me have my moment, Renee, okay?

732
00:34:22.860 --> 00:34:26.639
It just reminds me of all that stuff about Jerry Ryan in Picard

733
00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:29.460
series 3 saying how much she likes sitting in the chair and

734
00:34:29.460 --> 00:34:31.440
because it was a spinny chair.

735
00:34:31.500 --> 00:34:34.679
It was a swivel chair and she just loved the civil chair.

736
00:34:34.739 --> 00:34:35.940
Like, just adorable.

737
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:38.159
Oh, do you know, this is very funny.

738
00:34:38.219 --> 00:34:39.599
They go through this nebula, right?

739
00:34:39.659 --> 00:34:41.820
a stock nebula that they used in vortex.

740
00:34:41.880 --> 00:34:42.840
It's exactly the same one.

741
00:34:42.900 --> 00:34:44.280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

742
00:34:44.340 --> 00:34:48.360
And it looks a bit like the Mutara nebula from...

743
00:34:48.420 --> 00:34:49.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

744
00:34:50.099 --> 00:34:55.079
Yes, I think I've seen Borg navigating their way around that

745
00:34:55.139 --> 00:34:55.739
you're right.

746
00:34:55.800 --> 00:34:56.940
It's in best of both worlds.

747
00:34:57.000 --> 00:34:57.239
Yeah.

748
00:34:57.300 --> 00:34:58.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

749
00:34:58.559 --> 00:34:59.039
That's right.

750
00:34:59.099 --> 00:35:02.219
Maybe part 2 when they're kind of trying to run out the clock.

751
00:35:03.239 --> 00:35:08.579
He's using every bit of wordplay at his disposal. keep going, isn't

752
00:35:08.579 --> 00:35:08.699
it?

753
00:35:09.420 --> 00:35:13.679
But I love, I love it as they go in and all those ships start

754
00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:14.219
emerging.

755
00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:18.300
And it reminded me a bit of Scorpion when we said, you know, my

756
00:35:18.300 --> 00:35:21.239
God, there's 50 there was like 15 ball cubes or something in the

757
00:35:21.239 --> 00:35:23.940
Scorpion and you see about 20 ships emerge.

758
00:35:24.059 --> 00:35:25.980
I like that too.

759
00:35:26.039 --> 00:35:30.360
There's a little level of honesty here where Worf does say I'm

760
00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:31.380
being played.

761
00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:35.219
You're using this word, you know, you don't really care about it

762
00:35:35.219 --> 00:35:36.179
or know what it means.

763
00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:38.400
And he says, yeah, but you do.

764
00:35:38.460 --> 00:35:39.420
It works on you.

765
00:35:39.480 --> 00:35:42.780
And he kind of acknowledges yes, you know, it does.

766
00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:44.460
And so they both want the same thing.

767
00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:47.400
And so they both, you know, go in and do that.

768
00:35:47.579 --> 00:35:49.800
It's not a great lot as well.

769
00:35:49.860 --> 00:35:51.480
Garrett just going steady as she?

770
00:35:51.539 --> 00:35:52.679
Oh my god.

771
00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:56.880
I mean, there's about 30 ships there.

772
00:35:56.940 --> 00:35:58.019
I don't know how many.

773
00:35:58.019 --> 00:35:58.679
Oh, at least.

774
00:35:58.739 --> 00:36:03.179
And so there are 2 types of Gemini ships, aren't there?

775
00:36:03.239 --> 00:36:05.579
They're the little ones that look like cockroaches, which I think

776
00:36:05.579 --> 00:36:06.119
are really great.

777
00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:08.699
And then these big...

778
00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:09.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

779
00:36:09.780 --> 00:36:11.099
Yeah. they look really good.

780
00:36:11.159 --> 00:36:12.599
Oh my god, action.

781
00:36:12.659 --> 00:36:13.860
Jesus Christ.

782
00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:17.099
Yep, we're getting some action. people are firing things That's

783
00:36:17.099 --> 00:36:17.400
right.

784
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:19.019
I love the battle cruises.

785
00:36:19.079 --> 00:36:22.500
They look like sort of weird snails or something.

786
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:23.760
They're really odd looking.

787
00:36:23.820 --> 00:36:27.239
And you know, there is that pathetic, pathetic little runabout.

788
00:36:27.300 --> 00:36:29.039
So you know they're not going to last long here.

789
00:36:29.099 --> 00:36:30.239
Yeah, yeah.

790
00:36:30.300 --> 00:36:34.500
The funniest line in buying photos live was when Cisco went, launch

791
00:36:34.500 --> 00:36:37.019
the runabouts, as they're going to war.

792
00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:40.440
What the hell are they going to do?

793
00:36:40.500 --> 00:36:40.739
You know?

794
00:36:42.300 --> 00:36:43.860
So bad.

795
00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:47.519
Oh, I love this bit where they beam on though. and literally the

796
00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:50.039
audience gets smacked in the face by a gem.

797
00:36:50.099 --> 00:36:55.320
It's a it's a surprisingly stylish bit of direction there.

798
00:36:55.739 --> 00:36:58.980
There's such, yeah, good.

799
00:36:59.099 --> 00:37:02.039
Smack straight into the car.

800
00:37:02.340 --> 00:37:05.519
Whenever he's in danger, do you remember where the Warrior, where

801
00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:06.659
it's like, well, let me guess.

802
00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:10.139
You're either lost or desperately searching for a good tailor.

803
00:37:10.199 --> 00:37:11.760
So this scene here, right?

804
00:37:11.820 --> 00:37:17.760
So Kirioshi already recognises me, he says Kira, and Terry, who is

805
00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:22.019
the science officer, says that's not possible, and like explains

806
00:37:22.019 --> 00:37:23.519
it and all of that sort of thing.

807
00:37:23.579 --> 00:37:24.960
And so she's arguing against it.

808
00:37:25.019 --> 00:37:26.519
Terry doesn't believe it.

809
00:37:26.579 --> 00:37:27.480
Dax doesn't believe it.

810
00:37:27.539 --> 00:37:31.619
And then she walks in and says it to stupid Miles O'Brien.

811
00:37:31.679 --> 00:37:33.300
He recognises me.

812
00:37:33.360 --> 00:37:34.500
It's just like, oh, great.

813
00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:36.840
You know, this thing is so good.

814
00:37:36.900 --> 00:37:38.400
He believes it immediately.

815
00:37:38.460 --> 00:37:40.320
I just think it's absolutely adorable.

816
00:37:40.380 --> 00:37:44.699
It's a funny line and a, you know, like a clever joke, I think

817
00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:47.039
something so important happens here.

818
00:37:47.099 --> 00:37:50.699
I think this is this is where DS9 turns a gear in this scene.

819
00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:54.900
You go from characters just bantering to them, suddenly saying

820
00:37:54.900 --> 00:37:58.380
flee imminent, and that's when the show changes.

821
00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:01.139
That's when the Dominion is here and we're going to war

822
00:38:01.139 --> 00:38:01.320
basically.

823
00:38:01.380 --> 00:38:05.579
But I mean, compare this to the sort of just butt clenchingly

824
00:38:05.579 --> 00:38:10.199
embarrassing banter that you get on Voyager, like just regularly.

825
00:38:10.260 --> 00:38:15.719
That conversation between the 2 women and then the payoff when she

826
00:38:15.719 --> 00:38:19.079
speaks to Miles and he does like a comedy response.

827
00:38:19.139 --> 00:38:20.519
I think it's really good.

828
00:38:20.639 --> 00:38:22.559
They mostly do that really well.

829
00:38:22.619 --> 00:38:23.519
I can remember.

830
00:38:23.579 --> 00:38:24.059
Oh, yeah.

831
00:38:24.119 --> 00:38:26.699
Do you remember that time O'Brien and Bashira are fighting over

832
00:38:26.699 --> 00:38:29.639
that model and Kira just goes, well, that's what happens when you

833
00:38:29.639 --> 00:38:30.539
share your toys.

834
00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:33.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

835
00:38:33.539 --> 00:38:35.159
Oh, no.

836
00:38:35.219 --> 00:38:37.739
Let's just go saying and God help us all.

837
00:38:37.800 --> 00:38:38.760
Yes.

838
00:38:38.820 --> 00:38:39.480
Okay.

839
00:38:39.539 --> 00:38:41.820
And so this model shot, which is not a model shot.

840
00:38:41.880 --> 00:38:43.860
This CGI shot, we're going to see quite a lot.

841
00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:45.420
This is our prison.

842
00:38:45.480 --> 00:38:48.420
I do like it, though. a prison on an asteroid though.

843
00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:49.079
Yeah.

844
00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:49.559
Yeah, yeah.

845
00:38:49.619 --> 00:38:50.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

846
00:38:50.699 --> 00:38:53.760
And I think it looks like it's kind of boring.

847
00:38:53.820 --> 00:38:56.460
Like it's a it's a boring set because it's a prison.

848
00:38:56.519 --> 00:38:59.039
High ceilings though, and like weird angles.

849
00:38:59.099 --> 00:39:01.019
It feels faster. yeah you're right.

850
00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:03.119
And also, I really like the moonlight coming in as well.

851
00:39:03.179 --> 00:39:06.599
It means they can put a bit of dramatic lighting on people.

852
00:39:06.659 --> 00:39:07.380
Yeah.

853
00:39:07.380 --> 00:39:10.380
And it, you know, I really noticed an episode too, when that

854
00:39:10.380 --> 00:39:13.679
moonlight was hitting the gem Hadar, just how detailed those masks

855
00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:14.039
are.

856
00:39:14.099 --> 00:39:16.320
Yeah, yeah, they are pretty good, aren't they?

857
00:39:17.099 --> 00:39:20.699
I mean, there's a lot of latex in this city.

858
00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:23.460
There's a lot of latex in this show.

859
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:27.780
A lot of latex, yeah. that's right I think when DS9 ended, the

860
00:39:27.780 --> 00:39:28.619
latex business.

861
00:39:28.679 --> 00:39:29.940
So you were like, oh, what are we going to do?

862
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:31.019
Yeah, what are you going to do?

863
00:39:31.079 --> 00:39:34.380
I like this head Jemhadar as well.

864
00:39:34.440 --> 00:39:38.699
And the noble leader, Jemhadar, is a thing that they go with.

865
00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:41.219
And I think he's really good.

866
00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:42.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

867
00:39:42.780 --> 00:39:44.699
He's he's great in this.

868
00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:48.719
And in fact, it's that thing where Worf and that Jemhadar have

869
00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:53.639
something much more fundamentally in common than the Jemhadar has

870
00:39:53.639 --> 00:39:55.679
with the Vorta, who runs the prison.

871
00:39:56.099 --> 00:39:58.139
Yeah, I love that bit.

872
00:39:58.199 --> 00:40:01.679
We'll get there in episode two, where he says he yields.

873
00:40:01.739 --> 00:40:02.519
That's amazing.

874
00:40:02.579 --> 00:40:03.539
So brilliant.

875
00:40:03.599 --> 00:40:05.099
This is brilliant.

876
00:40:05.159 --> 00:40:06.360
This is pure, soap opera.

877
00:40:06.420 --> 00:40:08.159
It's like, you're staying for him, aren't you?

878
00:40:08.219 --> 00:40:09.360
That despicable tale.

879
00:40:09.420 --> 00:40:12.539
You don't want to leave, just stay careful, Taylor.

880
00:40:12.659 --> 00:40:13.619
And I was like, yes.

881
00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:17.159
I feel like I've switched onto neighbours with latex, you know?

882
00:40:17.639 --> 00:40:19.500
It's exactly it.

883
00:40:19.559 --> 00:40:21.239
This is all I want from television.

884
00:40:25.380 --> 00:40:26.940
But it is rooted.

885
00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:29.219
All that backstory is already there and has been explored.

886
00:40:29.340 --> 00:40:32.099
So it's not like they're just, it's not like Voyager where they're

887
00:40:32.099 --> 00:40:33.119
just saying words for that episode.

888
00:40:33.179 --> 00:40:34.679
No, that's right.

889
00:40:34.739 --> 00:40:35.340
That's it.

890
00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:38.400
Well, because it's ongoing because it is like a soap opera.

891
00:40:38.460 --> 00:40:43.199
And like it is that thing where we watch Star Trek, the way that

892
00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:47.880
people watch soap operas, you know, a soap opera, like Star Trek, a

893
00:40:47.880 --> 00:40:52.320
Star Trek episode in 2023 can refer to a Star Trek episode in the

894
00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:57.780
60s and a lot of the, you know, viewers will get what it's talking

895
00:40:57.780 --> 00:41:00.539
about and soaps operate that way as well.

896
00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:05.400
You know, we know minutie about these people's lives.

897
00:41:05.460 --> 00:41:07.260
Yeah, look how tall the ceilings are.

898
00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:08.639
It is a good set.

899
00:41:08.699 --> 00:41:12.900
That show has been embedded into like public consciousness for

900
00:41:12.900 --> 00:41:13.559
such a long time.

901
00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:14.699
Yeah.

902
00:41:14.760 --> 00:41:15.480
Yeah.

903
00:41:16.260 --> 00:41:21.239
Yeah, for a 2nd I thought this might be Hertzler, JJ Hertzler, but

904
00:41:21.239 --> 00:41:22.320
it's not, is it?

905
00:41:22.380 --> 00:41:23.400
Because it's Martok.

906
00:41:23.460 --> 00:41:27.239
It's the 1st half of this, the 1st half of this episode, we've had

907
00:41:27.239 --> 00:41:30.119
like one character scene after another as the plot's been

908
00:41:30.119 --> 00:41:30.539
bubbling.

909
00:41:30.599 --> 00:41:33.539
Now you get a 3 sucker punch of twists.

910
00:41:33.599 --> 00:41:36.059
You get Tain is there.

911
00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:36.900
And we did?

912
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:40.860
You know, and we kind of suspected that because Garrick said that

913
00:41:40.860 --> 00:41:43.800
but it's, you know, and he's on his last legs.

914
00:41:43.860 --> 00:41:48.599
And you've got Martok there, and nobody suspected that, that he

915
00:41:48.599 --> 00:41:51.239
would be coming back, and then you've got Bashir there, and they

916
00:41:51.239 --> 00:41:53.099
stagger these really well.

917
00:41:53.159 --> 00:41:54.059
Yeah.

918
00:41:54.059 --> 00:41:55.440
And they're good.

919
00:41:55.500 --> 00:41:57.840
Like, they are good soap opera reveals, but they're also really

920
00:41:57.840 --> 00:41:58.559
excellent.

921
00:41:58.559 --> 00:42:03.659
And the Martoc decision, like, it gets you, JJ Hartzer, nearly

922
00:42:03.659 --> 00:42:06.000
every week as a result.

923
00:42:06.059 --> 00:42:07.619
And so it's a great choice.

924
00:42:07.739 --> 00:42:14.219
And it means that Worf, who has been on the show less time than

925
00:42:14.219 --> 00:42:18.960
everyone else, now gets his ancillary character.

926
00:42:19.019 --> 00:42:22.860
You know, the way that Quark has Nog and ROM and the way that

927
00:42:22.860 --> 00:42:28.500
Julian has Garak and stuff like that now, he has Martoc and, you

928
00:42:28.500 --> 00:42:31.199
know, a Deep Space 9 character has to have that, I think.

929
00:42:31.260 --> 00:42:35.099
I always think of like, uh, this is like the Klingon alternative

930
00:42:35.099 --> 00:42:38.219
to Bashir and O'Brien, you know, they're like the best of us

931
00:42:38.219 --> 00:42:38.639
aren't they?

932
00:42:38.699 --> 00:42:39.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

933
00:42:39.659 --> 00:42:42.420
But they might pull a knife on each other, you know.

934
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:45.179
If the situation warrants it.

935
00:42:45.239 --> 00:42:49.500
And so we recognise Martok, but we've never actually seen Martok.

936
00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:51.239
He's been in prison this whole time.

937
00:42:51.300 --> 00:42:55.500
Yeah, so he's been in prison since before Way of the Warrior.

938
00:42:55.559 --> 00:42:56.099
Yeah.

939
00:42:56.099 --> 00:42:57.960
And that Martok was a changeling.

940
00:42:58.019 --> 00:43:01.800
And then at the end of season four, they try and convince you that

941
00:43:01.800 --> 00:43:06.239
the Changians put an idea in Odo's head that Gauron is changing.

942
00:43:06.300 --> 00:43:10.860
So they go to assassinate Gauron in Apocalypse Rising, and then

943
00:43:10.860 --> 00:43:13.139
the big twist there is no, it was never Gauron.

944
00:43:13.199 --> 00:43:14.579
It was my talk.

945
00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:16.380
I mean, this is great plotting.

946
00:43:16.440 --> 00:43:18.179
And it all came up really well.

947
00:43:18.239 --> 00:43:23.340
But I do think like what we get out of this is not just this

948
00:43:23.340 --> 00:43:24.300
fabulous twist.

949
00:43:24.360 --> 00:43:26.340
It's also going on for the show.

950
00:43:26.400 --> 00:43:28.139
It's great. for Wharf too.

951
00:43:28.199 --> 00:43:28.980
Wonderful.

952
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:32.579
Do you remember that scene in Strange Bedfellows, where he tells

953
00:43:32.579 --> 00:43:35.460
Cisco, who's just married Cassidy, you know?

954
00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:37.139
I learned a long time ago.

955
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:41.159
I might win the out battle, but she will always win the war.

956
00:43:41.699 --> 00:43:43.800
He's so charming.

957
00:43:43.860 --> 00:43:46.260
And he does chew the scenery but brilliantly.

958
00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:52.260
Here is Taine, who is kind of American TV royalty like it.

959
00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:56.519
I'm kind of here thinking, 0 my god, they got this guy in all this

960
00:43:56.519 --> 00:44:00.360
latex for several episodes, which was sort of pretty great.

961
00:44:00.420 --> 00:44:02.460
And he is very good.

962
00:44:02.519 --> 00:44:06.900
Did we suspect that he was Garak's father?

963
00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:08.940
I think so.

964
00:44:08.940 --> 00:44:14.340
Because, um, in the 1st episode where he's introduced the wire

965
00:44:14.340 --> 00:44:18.719
which is where Garak's chip in his head malfunctions, and we go to

966
00:44:18.719 --> 00:44:22.079
Cardassia, and it's Tane that gives Bashir the information to

967
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:23.219
repair it.

968
00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:27.780
Then in the two-parter in series three, Tain says to Garak, I want

969
00:44:27.780 --> 00:44:29.039
you to come and be a part of this.

970
00:44:29.099 --> 00:44:32.579
So there's always been a big connection between the 2 of them.

971
00:44:32.639 --> 00:44:36.300
They just haven't explicitly said... that they're following. a

972
00:44:36.300 --> 00:44:36.420
ton.

973
00:44:36.480 --> 00:44:42.059
And but I think I remember people sort of theorising about it or

974
00:44:42.059 --> 00:44:45.719
guessing, and it's kind of sweet that they just went, oh, yeah

975
00:44:45.719 --> 00:44:46.980
fuck it, let's give it to them.

976
00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:51.179
Let's, and it's only for the sake of this sort of one scene.

977
00:44:51.239 --> 00:44:53.639
And it is...

978
00:44:53.699 --> 00:44:57.900
It does make, it gives context to Garak's exile as well as to why

979
00:44:57.900 --> 00:45:02.579
he's on D Space 9 because in the two-parter, he goes, I never

980
00:45:02.579 --> 00:45:04.440
betrayed you, at least not.

981
00:45:04.500 --> 00:45:08.099
So something went down back in the day where Taine thought that

982
00:45:08.099 --> 00:45:10.619
Garrett betrayed him and that's why he's been exiled and why he

983
00:45:10.619 --> 00:45:13.199
can never go back to Cardassia because Taine's an important

984
00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:13.559
figure.

985
00:45:14.519 --> 00:45:16.679
Yeah, here we go.

986
00:45:16.739 --> 00:45:18.360
Here we just referred to 1st contact.

987
00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:24.539
Um, so we're in the wardroom and what's happening?

988
00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:28.139
Oh, so we're, we're discussing the dominion ships that are on

989
00:45:28.139 --> 00:45:31.380
their way and we're talking about our plan to close the wormhole

990
00:45:31.380 --> 00:45:31.920
at this point.

991
00:45:31.980 --> 00:45:32.639
Is that happening?

992
00:45:32.760 --> 00:45:38.880
Because that gets kind of thrown away in this episode, doesn't

993
00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:39.059
it?

994
00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:41.099
And in fact, they kind of hold it.

995
00:45:41.159 --> 00:45:44.219
Like, I think we do eventually close the wormhole, but the way

996
00:45:44.219 --> 00:45:47.940
that they talk in this episode, it's as if that's no longer a

997
00:45:47.940 --> 00:45:48.659
possibility.

998
00:45:48.719 --> 00:45:51.780
Like we can't even try to close the wormhole now.

999
00:45:51.780 --> 00:45:55.679
And that's obviously because, you know, they're going to end up

1000
00:45:55.679 --> 00:46:00.119
letting heaps of dominion, you know, ships through going forward.

1001
00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:02.280
This is the one I was telling you about where they mentioned

1002
00:46:02.280 --> 00:46:05.579
Lenara can't, because she was trying to do. an artificial wormhole

1003
00:46:05.579 --> 00:46:09.539
and rejoined and Jazius, essentially, Lenara was always better on

1004
00:46:09.539 --> 00:46:11.159
theory than she was on practice.

1005
00:46:11.400 --> 00:46:15.599
And if you watch Marco Lemo's performance in this scene, obviously

1006
00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:19.679
he knows, he's read the script for the two-parter, that Dukat is

1007
00:46:19.679 --> 00:46:20.760
so he's slouching.

1008
00:46:20.820 --> 00:46:24.960
He's barely sort of connecting with the conversation they're

1009
00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:28.139
having when when they say, oh, you know, what about Garricka

1010
00:46:28.139 --> 00:46:28.559
Wharf?

1011
00:46:28.559 --> 00:46:30.360
He just goes, casualties of war.

1012
00:46:30.840 --> 00:46:32.280
Yeah.

1013
00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:36.360
But it is good.

1014
00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:39.719
It is good that Kira says her piece about the wormhole.

1015
00:46:39.780 --> 00:46:40.679
Yeah, I think so too.

1016
00:46:40.739 --> 00:46:43.739
This guy goes, well, look, it's either that or the Dominion come

1017
00:46:43.739 --> 00:46:45.420
along and kill all your people, you know?

1018
00:46:46.139 --> 00:46:48.659
Yeah, it's kind of funny, isn't it?

1019
00:46:48.719 --> 00:46:53.460
Because, you know, space is so, you know, like they just go

1020
00:46:53.460 --> 00:46:55.800
somewhere or they end up wherever they want to be.

1021
00:46:55.860 --> 00:47:00.960
And so you don't get that sense really, you know, really get that

1022
00:47:00.960 --> 00:47:04.199
sense that if the wormhole that we're talking like years and years

1023
00:47:04.199 --> 00:47:06.059
before they could possibly get back.

1024
00:47:06.059 --> 00:47:10.619
But that scene where they're sort of discussing tactics and big

1025
00:47:10.619 --> 00:47:13.500
shifts, this becomes the norm in DS9 and galog.

1026
00:47:13.559 --> 00:47:15.960
But this certainly wasn't the norm in 90s trek.

1027
00:47:16.019 --> 00:47:17.280
No, not at all.

1028
00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:18.000
Yeah.

1029
00:47:18.059 --> 00:47:20.219
So it is like super refreshing.

1030
00:47:20.280 --> 00:47:21.780
Yeah, I agree.

1031
00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:25.500
Oh, I like the, yeah, Martoc, look, he's got respected

1032
00:47:25.500 --> 00:47:26.340
Cardassians.

1033
00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:27.840
They're clever people, you know?

1034
00:47:27.900 --> 00:47:28.800
Yeah.

1035
00:47:28.860 --> 00:47:34.380
And so, and so, and the eye thing, that's just this Martoc, and

1036
00:47:34.380 --> 00:47:35.639
he's lost that in prison.

1037
00:47:36.059 --> 00:47:42.059
So, yeah, and that's how we distinguish him from the one that we

1038
00:47:42.059 --> 00:47:43.440
knew in series four.

1039
00:47:43.500 --> 00:47:46.920
Now, I quite like that Romulan that was hanging around in the

1040
00:47:46.920 --> 00:47:47.820
prison with them, you know.

1041
00:47:47.880 --> 00:47:50.820
But she's a she's got a bit more personality than your average

1042
00:47:50.820 --> 00:47:51.539
Romulan.

1043
00:47:51.599 --> 00:47:54.300
That is so great, isn't it?

1044
00:47:54.360 --> 00:48:00.059
That is such a great, you know, cliffhanger to go to the ad

1045
00:48:00.059 --> 00:48:00.360
break.

1046
00:48:00.420 --> 00:48:03.480
And it is astonishing that they didn't use that for the

1047
00:48:03.480 --> 00:48:04.500
cliffhanger.

1048
00:48:04.500 --> 00:48:06.719
And that's only because they had a better cliffhanger in the

1049
00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:07.019
wings.

1050
00:48:07.019 --> 00:48:07.619
Yeah, yeah.

1051
00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:08.219
Yeah.

1052
00:48:08.280 --> 00:48:10.139
Or a more sort of climactic one.

1053
00:48:12.659 --> 00:48:16.260
I think Bashir looks great with a bit of scruff, you know, and a

1054
00:48:16.260 --> 00:48:16.739
bit.

1055
00:48:16.800 --> 00:48:19.380
Yeah, well I do too. he looks really handsome here.

1056
00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:23.340
And the funny thing is that now Bashir back on the station will

1057
00:48:23.340 --> 00:48:30.780
start doing the passenger level villain acting, which is so cheesy

1058
00:48:30.780 --> 00:48:31.980
and so terrible.

1059
00:48:32.039 --> 00:48:33.780
Nowhere near as bad as a passenger.

1060
00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:35.519
But it is still kind of bad.

1061
00:48:35.579 --> 00:48:37.440
He does that wonderful.

1062
00:48:37.500 --> 00:48:40.800
Remember an alias when you had a whole season of fake Francie.

1063
00:48:40.860 --> 00:48:43.440
And every time no one was looking at her, she was doing an evil

1064
00:48:43.440 --> 00:48:43.800
smile.

1065
00:48:43.860 --> 00:48:46.380
And then the 2nd they started looking at her, she's all normal

1066
00:48:46.380 --> 00:48:46.739
again.

1067
00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:48.239
Bashir starts doing this.

1068
00:48:48.239 --> 00:48:49.199
That's what he's doing.

1069
00:48:49.260 --> 00:48:52.679
He's in the turbo lift with the most evil smile imaginable.

1070
00:48:52.739 --> 00:48:55.559
And then he goes, oh, I brought you some sandwiches.

1071
00:48:56.639 --> 00:48:58.800
This thing is so funny.

1072
00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:03.420
There he is.

1073
00:49:03.480 --> 00:49:04.019
There he is.

1074
00:49:05.159 --> 00:49:07.739
Oh, he's doing an evil smile.

1075
00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:10.679
So bad.

1076
00:49:10.679 --> 00:49:11.639
He is evil.

1077
00:49:11.699 --> 00:49:14.219
Oh, and he's reading them evil sandwiches as well.

1078
00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:15.119
There we go.

1079
00:49:15.300 --> 00:49:18.599
This is something else that Star Trek does not do.

1080
00:49:18.659 --> 00:49:22.800
It doesn't pull the rug like this over, you know, suggesting that

1081
00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:25.920
this character that we've been hanging with for the last 4 or 5

1082
00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:26.400
episodes.

1083
00:49:26.460 --> 00:49:27.360
It isn't that character.

1084
00:49:27.480 --> 00:49:31.860
I mean, Voyager does it a bit early on, you know, because you've

1085
00:49:31.860 --> 00:49:34.860
got the guy who's signalling the.

1086
00:49:34.920 --> 00:49:35.880
Oh, Michael Jones.

1087
00:49:35.880 --> 00:49:36.179
Yeah.

1088
00:49:36.239 --> 00:49:39.659
Yeah, yeah. and you've got and then you've got Cesca and stuff

1089
00:49:39.659 --> 00:49:40.079
like that.

1090
00:49:40.139 --> 00:49:41.699
Cesca's the best one.

1091
00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:43.380
Michael Jonas will know he's doing it.

1092
00:49:43.440 --> 00:49:46.139
Whereas this is a this is a massive rug pull, isn't it?

1093
00:49:46.199 --> 00:49:47.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1094
00:49:47.880 --> 00:49:50.519
Well, and I do love then that we get all these scenes in episode

1095
00:49:50.519 --> 00:49:53.519
two, where she is in the background looking a bit menacing.

1096
00:49:53.579 --> 00:49:57.300
And like, it adds another layer that we know that somebody there

1097
00:49:57.300 --> 00:49:58.440
is up to no good.

1098
00:49:58.500 --> 00:50:02.460
Well, it's kind of funny because there is also just a kind of

1099
00:50:02.460 --> 00:50:07.500
ludicrous space plot, which they thwart, which is that we'll blow

1100
00:50:07.500 --> 00:50:09.539
up Bajor's son and destroy everything.

1101
00:50:09.599 --> 00:50:12.000
You know, which is absurd.

1102
00:50:12.059 --> 00:50:17.820
Um, and, but it gives us a big climax and a big, like it gives us

1103
00:50:17.820 --> 00:50:19.559
a victory at the end of the episode as well.

1104
00:50:19.619 --> 00:50:24.420
But as well as sort of big climatic battles, the Dominion has also

1105
00:50:24.420 --> 00:50:28.260
been known to do, I mean, maybe not something as silly as that.

1106
00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:30.840
But like, you know, like the quickening plague and things like

1107
00:50:30.840 --> 00:50:31.019
that.

1108
00:50:31.079 --> 00:50:34.980
They've used subtler methods than sending out.

1109
00:50:35.039 --> 00:50:38.519
And, you know, why use 500 ships when you can use one runabout and

1110
00:50:38.519 --> 00:50:38.880
a bomb?

1111
00:50:38.940 --> 00:50:39.960
Yeah.

1112
00:50:40.019 --> 00:50:45.239
Yeah, but I mean, I think, you know, we end in a worse place than

1113
00:50:45.239 --> 00:50:47.159
where we started, don't we?

1114
00:50:47.219 --> 00:50:51.059
Because now the Dominions on this side, in the Gamma Quadrant, and

1115
00:50:51.059 --> 00:50:54.960
it's a part of one of the major powers in the galaxy.

1116
00:50:55.019 --> 00:51:00.119
And so, so having some ludicrous plot that they could easily

1117
00:51:00.119 --> 00:51:02.940
thwart and feel good about at the end of episode 2 is a great plan

1118
00:51:02.940 --> 00:51:04.380
and it works really well.

1119
00:51:04.440 --> 00:51:08.400
The one thing that we're missing at this point, and it's only

1120
00:51:08.400 --> 00:51:11.039
because Jeffrey Coombs isn't back yet, and he will be back in

1121
00:51:11.039 --> 00:51:15.480
about 5 or 6 episodes time, is that we're not seeing any of this

1122
00:51:15.480 --> 00:51:18.840
from the Dominion point of view, which is what we get a lot going

1123
00:51:18.840 --> 00:51:19.199
ahead.

1124
00:51:19.260 --> 00:51:21.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1125
00:51:21.480 --> 00:51:24.719
And I love I love all that stuff because it just means Jeffrey

1126
00:51:24.719 --> 00:51:25.920
Coombe's being camp and wonderful.

1127
00:51:25.980 --> 00:51:27.840
It's so great, isn't it?

1128
00:51:27.840 --> 00:51:30.719
The Romulans, so predictably treacherous.

1129
00:51:30.780 --> 00:51:32.579
It's so funny.

1130
00:51:32.639 --> 00:51:33.840
Like those scenes.

1131
00:51:33.900 --> 00:51:37.440
It's wonderful that they, I think I've said this before, that

1132
00:51:37.440 --> 00:51:42.539
those scenes are so camp and so silly and so funny that without

1133
00:51:42.539 --> 00:51:47.219
undermining the threat, like without making the Dominion

1134
00:51:47.219 --> 00:51:47.820
ridiculous.

1135
00:51:47.880 --> 00:51:49.440
I think it's really good.

1136
00:51:49.500 --> 00:51:52.199
It's deftly done.

1137
00:51:53.280 --> 00:51:58.800
So we are coming up to war finding out now that he's going to have

1138
00:51:58.800 --> 00:52:01.980
to, you know, fight one Jem Hadar after another.

1139
00:52:02.519 --> 00:52:04.199
In the prison.

1140
00:52:04.260 --> 00:52:05.159
Yeah, yeah.

1141
00:52:05.340 --> 00:52:09.239
And that's basically what he does for the entire 2nd episode.

1142
00:52:09.300 --> 00:52:11.280
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1143
00:52:11.340 --> 00:52:14.639
And so that gives us some like action and stuff like that.

1144
00:52:14.699 --> 00:52:18.360
Um, so what has happened?

1145
00:52:18.420 --> 00:52:23.219
I can't remember what when Taine and like Taine doesn't want to

1146
00:52:23.219 --> 00:52:24.840
speak to Garak or something like that?

1147
00:52:24.840 --> 00:52:26.639
I know, because he thought Garak would come in.

1148
00:52:26.639 --> 00:52:28.860
Charging the light brigade and saving it.

1149
00:52:28.920 --> 00:52:29.460
Oh, okay.

1150
00:52:29.519 --> 00:52:33.239
And so he's annoyed that he just got captured and he isn't doing

1151
00:52:33.239 --> 00:52:33.539
anything.

1152
00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:33.900
Yeah.

1153
00:52:33.960 --> 00:52:41.219
And I know you and I talked, um, off Mike about Tame's death

1154
00:52:41.219 --> 00:52:41.760
scene.

1155
00:52:41.760 --> 00:52:46.199
And it, yeah, of course, they're always a bitch.

1156
00:52:46.260 --> 00:52:50.820
But I do like, it's, I think what salvages it is what how Andy

1157
00:52:50.820 --> 00:52:51.960
Robinson plays it.

1158
00:52:52.019 --> 00:52:52.320
Yeah.

1159
00:52:52.380 --> 00:52:53.340
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1160
00:52:53.400 --> 00:52:54.840
He refuses the riding.

1161
00:52:54.900 --> 00:53:00.059
He refuses it to be utterly schmaltzy. when he goes, Garrett, come

1162
00:53:00.059 --> 00:53:00.300
here.

1163
00:53:00.360 --> 00:53:02.340
And Garrett just goes, I'm listening.

1164
00:53:05.340 --> 00:53:09.599
But I do like the fact as well that Tane, he does throw him a bone

1165
00:53:09.599 --> 00:53:11.579
but it's a pretty small bone, you know.

1166
00:53:11.639 --> 00:53:12.420
Yeah, yeah.

1167
00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:13.139
Well, it's funny.

1168
00:53:13.199 --> 00:53:14.940
It's like it was the only day.

1169
00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:16.199
Yes, that was the day.

1170
00:53:16.260 --> 00:53:17.159
It was the early day.

1171
00:53:17.219 --> 00:53:24.420
I love the I also like too, that he gets to say it in the presence

1172
00:53:24.420 --> 00:53:25.679
of Julian.

1173
00:53:25.739 --> 00:53:29.880
Like, and I think that that's super important because in a way it

1174
00:53:29.880 --> 00:53:35.639
doesn't really happen, if it just happens to Garak, and Tame

1175
00:53:35.639 --> 00:53:36.300
dies.

1176
00:53:36.360 --> 00:53:38.159
He doesn't survive the conversation.

1177
00:53:38.219 --> 00:53:43.679
And so I think that that is really pretty good.

1178
00:53:43.739 --> 00:53:47.099
And I do think that he plays it pretty well.

1179
00:53:47.159 --> 00:53:52.079
Like he doesn't get sentimental and he's kind of impatient more

1180
00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:53.280
than anything else.

1181
00:53:53.340 --> 00:53:57.360
It's just like, come on, you're going to die, just this once.

1182
00:53:57.420 --> 00:53:58.860
Can we just admit it?

1183
00:53:58.920 --> 00:54:01.019
You know, um.

1184
00:54:01.079 --> 00:54:04.619
Well, I mean, I mean, I, you know, I have a fairly fractious

1185
00:54:04.619 --> 00:54:05.820
relationship with my dad.

1186
00:54:05.880 --> 00:54:09.059
I imagine this is what the death says bed scene would be like, you

1187
00:54:09.059 --> 00:54:09.480
know, right?

1188
00:54:09.539 --> 00:54:12.960
You just tell me how you feel about it before you pop your blogs

1189
00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:13.139
you know?

1190
00:54:13.199 --> 00:54:14.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1191
00:54:14.820 --> 00:54:18.840
Sometimes men just can't talk to each other in a way that they

1192
00:54:18.840 --> 00:54:19.440
probably should.

1193
00:54:19.559 --> 00:54:20.579
Yeah.

1194
00:54:20.639 --> 00:54:22.440
I like, don't die here.

1195
00:54:22.500 --> 00:54:25.260
I like, don't die here, escape, live, you know.

1196
00:54:26.099 --> 00:54:30.239
I think all of that stuff is, that's pretty great.

1197
00:54:30.360 --> 00:54:34.800
I like Bashir's reaction when he says a father to his son because

1198
00:54:34.800 --> 00:54:36.780
he's like the audience going, what?

1199
00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:39.239
Oh, yeah.

1200
00:54:39.300 --> 00:54:40.019
Well, that's it.

1201
00:54:40.079 --> 00:54:41.579
And I think that's why he has to be here.

1202
00:54:41.639 --> 00:54:42.599
It's a clever choice.

1203
00:54:43.199 --> 00:54:47.519
I like the fact that Garak allows himself like a moment of just a

1204
00:54:47.519 --> 00:54:50.280
moment of emotion and then he gets up, takes a breath and goes

1205
00:54:50.280 --> 00:54:51.480
right, let's get out of here.

1206
00:54:51.539 --> 00:54:56.579
But it is one of those hilarious cheesy Star Trek backstory things

1207
00:54:56.579 --> 00:55:00.659
that we make fun of, you know, that that Kurtzman Trek makes fun

1208
00:55:00.659 --> 00:55:00.900
of.

1209
00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:05.280
It's like he kept falling off his riding hound and blah, you know

1210
00:55:05.280 --> 00:55:06.539
like, Jesus Christ.

1211
00:55:07.500 --> 00:55:11.519
It's somewhat tempered by the fact that he says, I should have

1212
00:55:11.519 --> 00:55:13.079
killed your mother before you were born.

1213
00:55:13.139 --> 00:55:13.739
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1214
00:55:13.800 --> 00:55:15.719
No, he's a truly terrible person, which is pretty great.

1215
00:55:15.780 --> 00:55:18.480
Well, we find out later on, don't we?

1216
00:55:18.539 --> 00:55:22.079
The Tame, the reason why Gareth's got claustrophobia is Tame used

1217
00:55:22.079 --> 00:55:23.039
to lock him up in a cupboard.

1218
00:55:23.099 --> 00:55:24.360
Right, yeah.

1219
00:55:24.420 --> 00:55:25.619
Teach him a lesson.

1220
00:55:25.679 --> 00:55:28.980
I mean, it sounds like a, he's not, you know, we need something.

1221
00:55:29.039 --> 00:55:30.059
He's a terrible person.

1222
00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:31.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1223
00:55:31.260 --> 00:55:33.000
Well, she's kind of a terrible person as well.

1224
00:55:35.760 --> 00:55:37.739
Yes, here we go.

1225
00:55:38.039 --> 00:55:41.159
You know, you know, this is just to remind us.

1226
00:55:41.219 --> 00:55:42.300
This is still not his trek.

1227
00:55:42.360 --> 00:55:43.920
It's still 90 Star Trek.

1228
00:55:44.639 --> 00:55:48.179
I love how Cardassians have riding hounds, though.

1229
00:55:48.239 --> 00:55:50.699
I think that's a great, that's a great choice.

1230
00:55:50.760 --> 00:55:54.179
So they've got big giant dogs on Cardassia that you can ride

1231
00:55:54.179 --> 00:55:54.539
around.

1232
00:55:54.599 --> 00:55:58.079
The wonderful thing about Garrett getting up and saying, right

1233
00:55:58.079 --> 00:56:00.420
let's go. is it's almost like going, right, that plot's done

1234
00:56:00.420 --> 00:56:00.659
with.

1235
00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:02.579
Let's get this one done with as well now.

1236
00:56:02.639 --> 00:56:05.219
Yeah, I think it's, I think it's good.

1237
00:56:05.280 --> 00:56:10.500
I do think that, like, this episode works even if Tain's not

1238
00:56:10.500 --> 00:56:10.920
here.

1239
00:56:10.980 --> 00:56:12.360
Do you know what I mean?

1240
00:56:12.420 --> 00:56:14.880
He's only here for the purpose of this scene.

1241
00:56:14.940 --> 00:56:17.280
He's not really that crucial to the plot.

1242
00:56:17.340 --> 00:56:20.579
He could easily have motivated and they've just not been here, you

1243
00:56:20.579 --> 00:56:21.960
know, or...

1244
00:56:22.019 --> 00:56:23.159
Kardassian, you know?

1245
00:56:23.219 --> 00:56:24.840
Gold Messet or something.

1246
00:56:24.900 --> 00:56:26.940
It could have been the one in the prison sending out the

1247
00:56:26.940 --> 00:56:28.079
Cardassian signals.

1248
00:56:28.139 --> 00:56:32.639
Yeah, or he just, you know, like if, you know, is it Dooley, Paul

1249
00:56:32.639 --> 00:56:33.840
Dooley, is that his day?

1250
00:56:33.840 --> 00:56:34.860
Oh, that would have been available.

1251
00:56:34.920 --> 00:56:37.739
Imagine that. sending out the signals.

1252
00:56:38.340 --> 00:56:42.420
He's going through the whole, you know, the whole rigmarole of, you

1253
00:56:42.420 --> 00:56:44.460
know, getting them there and everything and it turns out they're

1254
00:56:44.460 --> 00:56:45.059
ex-lovers.

1255
00:56:45.119 --> 00:56:46.619
Oh, God.

1256
00:56:46.679 --> 00:56:48.960
Oh, Gull of Eck.

1257
00:56:49.019 --> 00:56:50.880
Remember him from the voyage, I think.

1258
00:56:50.940 --> 00:56:52.739
I'm thinking of Gullivic, you know.

1259
00:56:53.400 --> 00:56:56.880
He's the only Cardassian, know, that's vaguely handsome.

1260
00:56:56.940 --> 00:57:01.079
Yeah, well, isn't Gulma set, isn't that Mark Alimo as well?

1261
00:57:01.139 --> 00:57:02.280
Is that who he is?

1262
00:57:02.340 --> 00:57:04.800
Oh, when he was wearing the S&M game?

1263
00:57:04.860 --> 00:57:05.159
Yeah.

1264
00:57:05.219 --> 00:57:06.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1265
00:57:06.659 --> 00:57:08.760
The sort of Beaumont coat hangers.

1266
00:57:08.820 --> 00:57:09.780
Yes, exactly.

1267
00:57:09.900 --> 00:57:13.739
And the trouble is now is we're only dealing with all of our

1268
00:57:13.739 --> 00:57:15.480
established races in this episode.

1269
00:57:15.539 --> 00:57:17.699
So unfortunately, the Beau Moscow is out.

1270
00:57:17.760 --> 00:57:18.900
Yeah, yeah.

1271
00:57:18.960 --> 00:57:22.739
I have to say that there is Chekhov's brain as well.

1272
00:57:24.659 --> 00:57:28.679
Like I was just spending, because it's been a while since I've

1273
00:57:28.679 --> 00:57:32.400
seen this, but I was spending the entire kind of last episode and

1274
00:57:32.400 --> 00:57:32.940
half going.

1275
00:57:33.000 --> 00:57:36.960
So when does the Breen just pull a gun and kill someone and of

1276
00:57:36.960 --> 00:57:38.099
course we're not disappointed.

1277
00:57:38.340 --> 00:57:42.059
Which I think that's what I think makes a bit of a mockery of when

1278
00:57:42.059 --> 00:57:44.400
people said when the Broom was pulled in in series 7.

1279
00:57:44.460 --> 00:57:45.659
Well, where they come from?

1280
00:57:45.719 --> 00:57:47.880
And actually, they're in return to grace in series four.

1281
00:57:47.940 --> 00:57:48.420
They in this.

1282
00:57:48.480 --> 00:57:49.800
They make a couple of appearances.

1283
00:57:49.860 --> 00:57:51.420
Oh, here we go.

1284
00:57:51.480 --> 00:57:54.719
They're shooting the beams into the wormhole. into the wormhole.

1285
00:57:54.780 --> 00:57:55.619
The thing explodes.

1286
00:57:55.679 --> 00:57:57.900
Gosh, that guy doesn't seem very disturbed.

1287
00:57:57.960 --> 00:57:59.039
I guess it's an engineer.

1288
00:57:59.159 --> 00:57:59.699
That looks great.

1289
00:57:59.820 --> 00:58:01.500
There you go.

1290
00:58:01.559 --> 00:58:03.059
There's some special effects for me.

1291
00:58:03.119 --> 00:58:04.679
Oh, no.

1292
00:58:04.739 --> 00:58:07.079
Someone sabotaged the emitter array.

1293
00:58:07.139 --> 00:58:07.860
Yep.

1294
00:58:07.920 --> 00:58:09.300
Who could that have been, do you think?

1295
00:58:09.360 --> 00:58:11.400
And do you know what I love at the end of this?

1296
00:58:11.460 --> 00:58:12.840
They did the best of both worlds things.

1297
00:58:12.900 --> 00:58:15.059
That big dramatic sting of music at the end.

1298
00:58:15.179 --> 00:58:17.159
Yeah, here we go.

1299
00:58:17.219 --> 00:58:18.539
Here we go.

1300
00:58:18.599 --> 00:58:21.360
This is our big, that's a great shot, isn't it?

1301
00:58:21.420 --> 00:58:24.119
Well, because then it just feels like that's it.

1302
00:58:24.179 --> 00:58:25.500
Things are changed forever.

1303
00:58:25.559 --> 00:58:26.760
Yeah.

1304
00:58:26.820 --> 00:58:30.780
Yeah, no, it's a big proper thing and it's the sort of thing

1305
00:58:30.780 --> 00:58:32.280
they're not just going to walk back.

1306
00:58:32.340 --> 00:58:36.119
It's like something big is happening.

1307
00:58:36.179 --> 00:58:38.639
We know how this show works now.

1308
00:58:38.760 --> 00:58:42.659
And so it's not going to be okay in like next week's episode.

1309
00:58:42.719 --> 00:58:47.400
And it's one of the few times as well that they say to the

1310
00:58:47.400 --> 00:58:49.739
orchestra, right, come on, we want a big dramatic sting.

1311
00:58:49.800 --> 00:58:50.940
It's like, do it done.

1312
00:58:51.000 --> 00:58:52.980
Dun, dun, dun, dun.

1313
00:58:53.039 --> 00:58:54.119
You know what I mean?

1314
00:58:54.179 --> 00:58:57.900
I mean, it's still fairly terrible music this week and I still

1315
00:58:57.900 --> 00:58:58.679
get...

1316
00:58:58.739 --> 00:59:03.239
I must have told you there was a, we got a Nintendo Wii, and there

1317
00:59:03.239 --> 00:59:06.179
was a Star Trek game with it, and I'm pretty sure that all of the

1318
00:59:06.179 --> 00:59:09.840
music for it was procedurally generated, like it was just written

1319
00:59:09.840 --> 00:59:14.460
by a computer, and at 90 Star Trek music, like it just captured it

1320
00:59:14.460 --> 00:59:16.199
absolutely perfectly.

1321
00:59:16.800 --> 00:59:22.500
And I still kind of think that even with that big sting, it was

1322
00:59:22.500 --> 00:59:25.019
still pretty wallpapery, the music.

1323
00:59:25.079 --> 00:59:28.019
And nowhere near as good as what we got in Scorpion.

1324
00:59:29.519 --> 00:59:31.079
So great.

1325
00:59:32.219 --> 00:59:35.639
I still think that's a fabulous cliffhanger, though.

1326
00:59:35.760 --> 00:59:40.380
Because when I 1st saw this, this was when, this is how old I am.

1327
00:59:40.500 --> 00:59:46.619
This is when the VHSs were coming out with 2 stories, 2 episodes

1328
00:59:46.619 --> 00:59:47.460
per VHS.

1329
00:59:47.519 --> 00:59:48.780
I remember this very well.

1330
00:59:48.840 --> 00:59:50.280
And I got this one.

1331
00:59:50.340 --> 00:59:55.320
It was for the uniform, amazing Cisco episode, melodramatic as

1332
00:59:55.320 --> 00:59:55.679
hell.

1333
00:59:55.739 --> 00:59:57.420
And then in Purgatory Shadow.

1334
00:59:57.480 --> 00:59:59.519
I was like, great, big arc episode.

1335
00:59:59.579 --> 01:00:00.900
And then it ended with that.

1336
01:00:00.960 --> 01:00:02.880
All those shit's pouring out of a wormhole.

1337
01:00:02.940 --> 01:00:06.599
I looked at my mother and I went, Have I got away a month to see

1338
01:00:06.599 --> 01:00:07.260
the end of this?

1339
01:00:08.280 --> 01:00:13.260
I was there at W8 Smith's the day that that next video came out.

1340
01:00:13.500 --> 01:00:16.380
I pulled a sickie, I seemed to remember, and I was there at 9

1341
01:00:16.380 --> 01:00:19.199
o'clock to grab the VHS so I could get home and we could watch it

1342
01:00:19.199 --> 01:00:19.380
together.

1343
01:00:19.500 --> 01:00:20.579
Brilliant.

1344
01:00:21.599 --> 01:00:23.760
All right, so what do you think?

1345
01:00:23.820 --> 01:00:24.960
start again?

1346
01:00:25.019 --> 01:00:26.460
After that, Cliffhanger.

1347
01:00:26.519 --> 01:00:27.300
I am ready to go.

1348
01:00:27.420 --> 01:00:30.659
Okay, yeah, we won't make you wait a month this time.

1349
01:00:30.719 --> 01:00:32.519
All right, I'm going to count you in.

1350
01:00:32.579 --> 01:00:38.400
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

1351
01:00:39.360 --> 01:00:45.239
I'll just say something for the, um, the hideously melodramatic

1352
01:00:45.239 --> 01:00:50.760
titles of this 2 parter in Purgatory Shadow and buy Inferno's

1353
01:00:50.760 --> 01:00:51.179
Light.

1354
01:00:51.239 --> 01:00:53.699
Yeah, it's really full on, isn't it?

1355
01:00:53.760 --> 01:00:57.119
Because it really doesn't have anything to do with anything that's

1356
01:00:57.119 --> 01:00:57.960
actually going on.

1357
01:00:59.340 --> 01:01:03.539
The only shadows in that 1st episode are in that Dominion prison.

1358
01:01:03.659 --> 01:01:04.860
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1359
01:01:04.920 --> 01:01:08.099
Oh, and the usual ones are on the station as well, because there's

1360
01:01:08.099 --> 01:01:09.420
quite nice lighting here.

1361
01:01:12.480 --> 01:01:13.079
Yes.

1362
01:01:13.139 --> 01:01:16.260
So we have to catch up with everybody now, don't we?

1363
01:01:16.320 --> 01:01:17.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1364
01:01:17.820 --> 01:01:26.880
So we did have, um, we did have, uh, um, Ducart kind of warning us

1365
01:01:26.880 --> 01:01:29.940
that something is going to happen big at the end as well, the

1366
01:01:29.940 --> 01:01:33.119
things are going to change on Cardassia thing that he gives to.

1367
01:01:33.179 --> 01:01:33.480
Yeah.

1368
01:01:33.539 --> 01:01:35.519
I do like his line as well.

1369
01:01:35.579 --> 01:01:37.320
I don't have time to explain, all right?

1370
01:01:37.380 --> 01:01:37.980
You're going.

1371
01:01:38.039 --> 01:01:42.780
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. that's pretty good I'm not allowed to drop

1372
01:01:42.780 --> 01:01:44.099
this twist until episode two.

1373
01:01:44.639 --> 01:01:49.500
That set could have been so much more boring than it is.

1374
01:01:49.559 --> 01:01:50.699
It really is good.

1375
01:01:50.760 --> 01:01:54.539
The set where the ring is. you know, where the fights take place.

1376
01:01:54.599 --> 01:01:57.780
And, you know, they mat in those windows and stuff above it.

1377
01:01:57.780 --> 01:01:59.699
And they do give it a sense of scale.

1378
01:01:59.760 --> 01:02:03.360
It is, like, it seems like it's weirdly in the corner of a room

1379
01:02:03.360 --> 01:02:05.579
but I think it looks really good.

1380
01:02:05.639 --> 01:02:07.139
It could have been...

1381
01:02:07.199 --> 01:02:10.380
I like the sort of upturned jam jars that they've got with lights

1382
01:02:10.380 --> 01:02:12.420
in them going all around the circle, you know?

1383
01:02:12.539 --> 01:02:13.320
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1384
01:02:13.380 --> 01:02:14.340
I think it looks really good.

1385
01:02:14.400 --> 01:02:18.420
And that thing too, like you hit the, you hit the thing to say

1386
01:02:18.420 --> 01:02:19.800
that you want to keep going.

1387
01:02:19.860 --> 01:02:24.840
That's really good because it makes Wharf's decision much more

1388
01:02:24.840 --> 01:02:26.039
palpable each time.

1389
01:02:26.099 --> 01:02:28.260
It's not just that he's struggling to get up.

1390
01:02:28.320 --> 01:02:30.420
It's like he's getting the shit beaten out of him.

1391
01:02:30.480 --> 01:02:33.420
Then he presses the button to indicate that he wants to keep going

1392
01:02:33.420 --> 01:02:34.920
whether he can do it or not.

1393
01:02:34.980 --> 01:02:36.960
It's very clever, I think.

1394
01:02:37.019 --> 01:02:39.960
And may I say, he's been through some shit, but he shows some

1395
01:02:39.960 --> 01:02:41.340
insurance in this episode.

1396
01:02:42.000 --> 01:02:45.719
May I regale you with a quote from Robert Hewitt Wolves?

1397
01:02:45.780 --> 01:02:46.440
Yes, please.

1398
01:02:46.500 --> 01:02:49.500
I have something to say about the twist, which is about to hear.

1399
01:02:49.559 --> 01:02:52.260
And that is the Dominion ships have come pouring through the

1400
01:02:52.260 --> 01:02:55.440
wormhole and they're about to head off to Cardassia with

1401
01:02:55.440 --> 01:02:56.340
Goldjakar.

1402
01:02:56.400 --> 01:02:57.599
Yeah, yeah.

1403
01:02:57.659 --> 01:03:02.699
And uh, Robert Hewitt Wolf says that this was based on a depiction

1404
01:03:02.699 --> 01:03:07.079
of the economically depressed, uh, sorry, I'll start that again.

1405
01:03:07.139 --> 01:03:10.679
He based an depiction of an economically depressed Cardassia on

1406
01:03:10.679 --> 01:03:14.159
the brink of cultural collapse on the Weimar?

1407
01:03:14.579 --> 01:03:15.059
Weimar.

1408
01:03:15.119 --> 01:03:16.199
Thank you.

1409
01:03:16.260 --> 01:03:18.719
The government of Germany between the 2 world wars.

1410
01:03:18.780 --> 01:03:22.019
The Dominion's takeover of the Kardashian Union was likewise

1411
01:03:22.019 --> 01:03:26.519
inspired by the Angelus, where the Austrian National Socialist

1412
01:03:26.519 --> 01:03:30.179
Party, after gaining control of that country's government invited

1413
01:03:30.179 --> 01:03:34.019
Nazi Germany to send in their military forces and effectively

1414
01:03:34.019 --> 01:03:34.920
absorbed the country.

1415
01:03:34.980 --> 01:03:37.980
Yeah, you might remember that from the sound of music.

1416
01:03:38.039 --> 01:03:40.920
So, seriously.

1417
01:03:40.980 --> 01:03:42.659
It does get a mention.

1418
01:03:42.719 --> 01:03:48.539
So, you know, that's the thing about the politics here too.

1419
01:03:48.599 --> 01:03:51.719
Like we had very sort of Cold War politics, didn't we, in original

1420
01:03:51.719 --> 01:03:52.619
Star Trek?

1421
01:03:52.679 --> 01:03:56.099
Here they kind of cherry pick around things that are happening in

1422
01:03:56.099 --> 01:03:57.420
the middle of the 20th century.

1423
01:03:57.480 --> 01:04:01.619
And, you know, Cardassia and Bajor could be any number of

1424
01:04:01.619 --> 01:04:03.300
different kind of things.

1425
01:04:03.360 --> 01:04:06.239
And I think that's really interesting and it does give it a kind

1426
01:04:06.239 --> 01:04:09.119
of texture and a little bit of sort of reality.

1427
01:04:09.179 --> 01:04:11.099
It's why it touches home for a lot of viewers.

1428
01:04:11.159 --> 01:04:14.880
You know, I know there are Star Trek fans that have suffered in

1429
01:04:14.880 --> 01:04:18.300
conflicts that have found some of the subjects they probe into

1430
01:04:18.300 --> 01:04:19.260
quite moving.

1431
01:04:19.619 --> 01:04:21.000
Yeah.

1432
01:04:21.119 --> 01:04:25.739
So what I think is great, what I think is really good is we just

1433
01:04:25.739 --> 01:04:30.360
had an incredible cliffhanger, which is that visual cliffhanger

1434
01:04:30.360 --> 01:04:34.139
and then we find out what it means, and we go into the opening

1435
01:04:34.139 --> 01:04:38.099
credits, like, this is a much bigger deal than just a whole bunch

1436
01:04:38.099 --> 01:04:39.719
of ships have appeared.

1437
01:04:40.019 --> 01:04:43.619
What I was expecting was a, you know, a big battle now.

1438
01:04:43.679 --> 01:04:47.340
Yeah, yeah, you know, station versus ships that we got in Way of

1439
01:04:47.340 --> 01:04:47.820
the Warrior.

1440
01:04:47.880 --> 01:04:50.820
And I think when I was younger, I was a little bit disappointed.

1441
01:04:50.820 --> 01:04:54.000
As an adult, I think this is far more, especially when you've got

1442
01:04:54.000 --> 01:04:57.840
your cart delivering the information and saying lines like, you

1443
01:04:57.840 --> 01:05:02.280
and me on the same side, major, it never felt quite right, did

1444
01:05:02.280 --> 01:05:02.519
it?

1445
01:05:04.199 --> 01:05:07.980
I think too, one of the great things he said, we'll see this at

1446
01:05:07.980 --> 01:05:11.340
the end of the episode because Cisco will get to speak to him.

1447
01:05:11.400 --> 01:05:16.019
And because Cisco knows him, it does add a little bit of a thing

1448
01:05:16.019 --> 01:05:19.920
because Cisco has sort of personal contempt for him and isn't

1449
01:05:19.920 --> 01:05:24.119
afraid to express that even though he's, you know, a high-ranking

1450
01:05:24.119 --> 01:05:27.840
member of the Cardassian government all of a sudden.

1451
01:05:27.840 --> 01:05:33.000
Ira Bear is quoted, heroes saying, Dukat is a self-deluded

1452
01:05:33.000 --> 01:05:36.059
opportunistic, egomaniacal sadist.

1453
01:05:36.119 --> 01:05:39.300
In other words, he is the Richard Nixon of Deep Space Mind.

1454
01:05:39.360 --> 01:05:40.800
He'll...

1455
01:05:40.860 --> 01:05:46.079
He will do whatever it takes to come out on top. including selling

1456
01:05:46.079 --> 01:05:50.820
out his own people because the decision he makes now is what wipes

1457
01:05:50.820 --> 01:05:55.260
out 100s of 1000000s of Cardassians in the last episode.

1458
01:05:55.320 --> 01:05:56.159
Yeah.

1459
01:05:56.219 --> 01:05:57.300
What is it?

1460
01:05:57.360 --> 01:06:03.300
Damar says, the dominion of invaded Kardashia without firing a

1461
01:06:03.300 --> 01:06:03.719
single shot.

1462
01:06:03.719 --> 01:06:06.539
Because I just start using them as cannon fodder.

1463
01:06:06.599 --> 01:06:07.440
Yeah.

1464
01:06:07.500 --> 01:06:12.179
Yeah, and in fact, that's what I think is a makes him turning into

1465
01:06:12.179 --> 01:06:18.000
sort of crazed par wraith, you know, like science fiction guy, a

1466
01:06:18.000 --> 01:06:19.739
little bit disappointing at the end.

1467
01:06:19.800 --> 01:06:23.219
It's a little bit too crap for someone who's been a lot more

1468
01:06:23.219 --> 01:06:24.480
interesting, I think, than that.

1469
01:06:24.539 --> 01:06:27.900
There's the brain sitting there in the foreground of the shot.

1470
01:06:27.960 --> 01:06:31.619
Chekhov's brain, just waiting to kill someone at some point.

1471
01:06:32.039 --> 01:06:34.199
Sassy Romulan.

1472
01:06:34.260 --> 01:06:35.579
She gets that line later, doesn't she?

1473
01:06:35.639 --> 01:06:37.440
Where she goes, my people have a saying.

1474
01:06:37.559 --> 01:06:39.239
Never turn your back on a breed.

1475
01:06:42.179 --> 01:06:45.960
Now, I am slightly claustrophobic myself.

1476
01:06:46.019 --> 01:06:48.539
I can't really do berry contained spaces.

1477
01:06:48.599 --> 01:06:51.480
And so I empathise with Garrett completely.

1478
01:06:51.539 --> 01:06:54.900
Now, Andy Robinson is quoted as saying they genuinely shoved him

1479
01:06:54.900 --> 01:06:59.099
in a very tight space, so there was no acting involved in these

1480
01:06:59.099 --> 01:06:59.940
scenes whatsoever.

1481
01:07:00.059 --> 01:07:03.960
Well, in fact, I really like the physicality too.

1482
01:07:04.019 --> 01:07:08.579
Like the fact that we see quite often that you've got that thing

1483
01:07:08.579 --> 01:07:10.860
that you pry the small panel off with.

1484
01:07:10.920 --> 01:07:14.579
You reach in there and then you bring out the big panel and

1485
01:07:14.579 --> 01:07:17.460
there's a whole, like we know what's required.

1486
01:07:17.519 --> 01:07:22.079
We know how this is sort of set up and we kind of know what the

1487
01:07:22.079 --> 01:07:23.760
stakes are if he's discovered.

1488
01:07:23.880 --> 01:07:26.940
But I just think it's all just very well established, how this all

1489
01:07:26.940 --> 01:07:27.539
works.

1490
01:07:27.960 --> 01:07:31.079
Do you know how this was originally conceived?

1491
01:07:31.139 --> 01:07:34.679
This was conceived as they wanted to do the Great Escape.

1492
01:07:34.739 --> 01:07:38.940
So they wanted characters in prison trying to get out.

1493
01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:42.000
And originally it was a Michael Eddington story until our bear

1494
01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:45.539
turned around and he went, I don't think anybody is convinced that

1495
01:07:45.539 --> 01:07:47.099
Michael Eddington is a good guy.

1496
01:07:47.159 --> 01:07:48.900
So I'm not sure we can do it.

1497
01:07:48.960 --> 01:07:50.519
And so they went down this room.

1498
01:07:50.579 --> 01:07:54.539
And you're right, there is that kind of 2 pronged attempt to

1499
01:07:54.539 --> 01:07:55.139
escape from this.

1500
01:07:55.199 --> 01:07:57.360
It is a very physical show this.

1501
01:07:57.420 --> 01:07:59.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1502
01:07:59.159 --> 01:08:00.659
Yeah, you see that shot?

1503
01:08:00.719 --> 01:08:04.139
like the establishing shot with that crowd of people, the crowd of

1504
01:08:04.139 --> 01:08:10.559
um, of, Jem'Hadar hanging around there and other prisoners and

1505
01:08:10.559 --> 01:08:10.920
stuff.

1506
01:08:10.980 --> 01:08:12.300
I love this world, isn't it?

1507
01:08:12.360 --> 01:08:15.119
All the Cardassians looking at each other like, what is he

1508
01:08:15.119 --> 01:08:15.420
saying?

1509
01:08:15.480 --> 01:08:18.060
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's time for you to go home.

1510
01:08:18.359 --> 01:08:22.920
He says, I hope you enjoy your time as Dominion citizens or

1511
01:08:22.920 --> 01:08:23.399
something like that.

1512
01:08:23.520 --> 01:08:26.579
Congratulations on your new status, he says.

1513
01:08:26.699 --> 01:08:32.460
There you go That Jemhadar's makeup, not Jemhadar, the vort is

1514
01:08:32.460 --> 01:08:33.659
makeup is really shit.

1515
01:08:33.899 --> 01:08:36.180
It's so bad.

1516
01:08:36.239 --> 01:08:40.020
And you know, whilst I will always prefer to see Jeffrey Coons

1517
01:08:40.020 --> 01:08:41.880
because he's brilliant.

1518
01:08:41.939 --> 01:08:43.979
I think this guy does pretty well.

1519
01:08:44.039 --> 01:08:46.140
He's still very camp and a bit silly, isn't he?

1520
01:08:46.199 --> 01:08:48.720
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but he does look super weird.

1521
01:08:48.779 --> 01:08:52.319
I think I'm not sure the makeup is really working for some

1522
01:08:52.319 --> 01:08:52.680
reason.

1523
01:08:52.800 --> 01:08:56.640
I do like it's everyone except and these scenes too.

1524
01:08:56.699 --> 01:08:59.579
So these scenes where he's on the big screen.

1525
01:08:59.640 --> 01:09:01.500
And look at that city.

1526
01:09:01.560 --> 01:09:04.739
Like, don't you think, like, it looks like a European city?

1527
01:09:04.800 --> 01:09:07.619
There's a river running through the middle of it and a big old

1528
01:09:07.619 --> 01:09:11.399
bridge and then we've got this.

1529
01:09:11.939 --> 01:09:15.840
We've got those sort of stupid spike things, you know, heading

1530
01:09:15.840 --> 01:09:19.079
into the sky, which kind of, I don't know, they're reminiscent of

1531
01:09:19.079 --> 01:09:21.779
the pylons on Deep Space 9.

1532
01:09:21.840 --> 01:09:22.380
Is that it?

1533
01:09:22.680 --> 01:09:25.380
Oh, it's Cardassian architecture?

1534
01:09:25.439 --> 01:09:25.979
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1535
01:09:26.039 --> 01:09:26.760
I just love.

1536
01:09:26.819 --> 01:09:28.619
I just love how this is working on so many levels.

1537
01:09:28.739 --> 01:09:29.760
That camera pulled back there.

1538
01:09:29.819 --> 01:09:31.500
I was giving this speech, right?

1539
01:09:31.560 --> 01:09:35.220
And you've got Kira giving him death eyes because of all their

1540
01:09:35.220 --> 01:09:35.520
history.

1541
01:09:35.579 --> 01:09:38.819
You got Cisco like, I should have killed him all those times.

1542
01:09:38.819 --> 01:09:42.000
And then you've got the Bashir changeling, just giving his evil

1543
01:09:42.000 --> 01:09:42.960
smile in the background.

1544
01:09:43.020 --> 01:09:45.779
I'm like, there's a lot going on here, isn't it?

1545
01:09:45.840 --> 01:09:46.800
Yeah, yeah.

1546
01:09:48.239 --> 01:09:49.560
Yeah.

1547
01:09:49.560 --> 01:09:53.880
Well, I just think I think the decision to have the Dominion come

1548
01:09:53.880 --> 01:09:58.680
into the alpha quadrant and initially take a political approach

1549
01:09:58.680 --> 01:10:04.079
and try and absorb just like the Federation, absorb in all of the

1550
01:10:04.079 --> 01:10:06.779
great powers was such a savvy move.

1551
01:10:06.840 --> 01:10:10.260
Well, I think, you know, the word dominion, you know, and

1552
01:10:10.260 --> 01:10:13.439
federation, they're both just sort of abstract English nouns.

1553
01:10:13.500 --> 01:10:18.420
Federation is like a group of people who have joined together with

1554
01:10:18.420 --> 01:10:22.560
a treaty, a dominion is something that's ruled by someone.

1555
01:10:22.619 --> 01:10:25.380
Dominion sounds a bit more sinister, does it?

1556
01:10:25.500 --> 01:10:26.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1557
01:10:26.399 --> 01:10:27.239
I think it's really good.

1558
01:10:27.300 --> 01:10:28.739
But you know what it does?

1559
01:10:28.859 --> 01:10:35.399
It leads to those scenes with Kai Winn, in the cars, where they're

1560
01:10:35.399 --> 01:10:38.039
trying to convince the Bajorans to come in, you know, and you've

1561
01:10:38.039 --> 01:10:41.699
got to win and win and Weyune squaring up to each other.

1562
01:10:41.760 --> 01:10:44.880
Oh, look at Julian looking sinister.

1563
01:10:45.539 --> 01:10:48.420
Time for another round of blood screenings.

1564
01:10:48.479 --> 01:10:51.600
He does look super handsome in prison, doesn't he, where he's

1565
01:10:51.600 --> 01:10:53.640
roughed up a bit and he's got a little bit of a bit.

1566
01:10:53.699 --> 01:10:57.119
I mean, I think sort of latter-day Bashir is very funny.

1567
01:10:57.180 --> 01:11:01.739
Yeah, yeah, no, he is. sort of youthful sort of way.

1568
01:11:01.800 --> 01:11:03.239
Lovely olive skin he's got.

1569
01:11:03.300 --> 01:11:05.939
Oh, I do like the fact that he's the one that says as well.

1570
01:11:06.300 --> 01:11:07.920
Well, look, we've got to change the infiltrator.

1571
01:11:07.979 --> 01:11:08.399
I agree.

1572
01:11:08.460 --> 01:11:09.659
About to around the tests.

1573
01:11:10.020 --> 01:11:11.939
Yeah, and what does he do?

1574
01:11:12.000 --> 01:11:14.340
He just sort of fakes a test or fucks it up or something like

1575
01:11:14.340 --> 01:11:14.520
that.

1576
01:11:14.579 --> 01:11:17.039
Do we find out that they can pass the test?

1577
01:11:17.159 --> 01:11:20.939
They can absorb some blood and pass the test?

1578
01:11:21.000 --> 01:11:25.199
Ever since Joseph Sisco cut himself off on that knife in the

1579
01:11:25.199 --> 01:11:27.420
kitchen when they're trying to force him to do the test and he

1580
01:11:27.420 --> 01:11:30.720
goes, look, they're only one test that's smart man and can't think

1581
01:11:30.720 --> 01:11:31.319
his way around.

1582
01:11:31.380 --> 01:11:35.460
I think we've acknowledged, yeah, they can...

1583
01:11:35.520 --> 01:11:35.880
Yeah.

1584
01:11:35.880 --> 01:11:36.300
Yeah.

1585
01:11:36.359 --> 01:11:41.159
And we know that they can now in latter day Star Trek, I think.

1586
01:11:41.220 --> 01:11:43.920
I love his I love this.

1587
01:11:43.979 --> 01:11:47.939
It's like, um, you know, this would have been a perfect kind of

1588
01:11:47.939 --> 01:11:52.380
torture chamber with the occasional electric shocks and things.

1589
01:11:52.439 --> 01:11:54.060
It's pretty good.

1590
01:11:54.960 --> 01:11:57.420
Random electric shucks.

1591
01:11:57.479 --> 01:12:02.159
And he's playing funny initially, and then it only becomes clear

1592
01:12:02.159 --> 01:12:03.359
how serious he is.

1593
01:12:03.420 --> 01:12:05.159
And I'm not sure that I buy.

1594
01:12:05.220 --> 01:12:08.100
There's a very, very long conversation he has with himself, which

1595
01:12:08.100 --> 01:12:11.039
is sort of cheesy and not particularly realistic.

1596
01:12:11.100 --> 01:12:12.840
No, that's right.

1597
01:12:12.899 --> 01:12:14.460
Only on TV.

1598
01:12:14.520 --> 01:12:16.560
Usually in soap operas, in fact.

1599
01:12:16.619 --> 01:12:17.340
Yeah, yeah.

1600
01:12:17.399 --> 01:12:18.000
Yeah.

1601
01:12:18.060 --> 01:12:19.560
And I mean, it does what it does.

1602
01:12:19.619 --> 01:12:22.380
It's like, you know, here's what he's thinking and it does it sort

1603
01:12:22.380 --> 01:12:24.960
of fairly efficiently, which is why they resort to it, I think.

1604
01:12:25.020 --> 01:12:29.220
And it gives Andrew Robinson some acting opportunities as well.

1605
01:12:29.880 --> 01:12:34.739
I think I just, I do want to point out the plot inconsistency of

1606
01:12:34.739 --> 01:12:39.060
the Jem'Hadar leaving the runabout, in orbit, outside the

1607
01:12:39.060 --> 01:12:40.439
facility.

1608
01:12:40.439 --> 01:12:42.180
Yeah, they should.

1609
01:12:42.180 --> 01:12:44.039
And they enabled it, all to escape.

1610
01:12:44.100 --> 01:12:45.180
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1611
01:12:45.239 --> 01:12:51.659
And the way that DS9 gloriously brings that up next season where

1612
01:12:51.659 --> 01:12:56.220
they accuse Julian Bashira being a Dominion spy because, oh

1613
01:12:56.220 --> 01:12:56.520
really?

1614
01:12:56.579 --> 01:13:00.300
They just happened to leave that runabout in orbit outside the...

1615
01:13:00.300 --> 01:13:03.060
They've looked over and have gone, oh, I can't believe we did

1616
01:13:03.060 --> 01:13:03.300
that.

1617
01:13:03.359 --> 01:13:04.319
We got to bring that up again.

1618
01:13:04.380 --> 01:13:05.520
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1619
01:13:05.579 --> 01:13:07.800
Well, that's the thing. that's the thing that they do They're

1620
01:13:07.800 --> 01:13:10.680
responding to what they do. and they're watching it the way that

1621
01:13:10.680 --> 01:13:12.539
you know, fans watch it.

1622
01:13:12.600 --> 01:13:14.399
It's how Russell approached Doctor Who.

1623
01:13:14.460 --> 01:13:18.539
You know, like he saw things in the show that he didn't

1624
01:13:18.539 --> 01:13:22.319
necessarily realise he was putting in there and then responded to

1625
01:13:22.319 --> 01:13:22.560
it.

1626
01:13:22.619 --> 01:13:25.800
And that's what, you know, Ronald D. Moore in particular, but

1627
01:13:25.800 --> 01:13:27.539
clearly Ira Bear, too.

1628
01:13:27.600 --> 01:13:29.880
That's how they, you know, write.

1629
01:13:29.939 --> 01:13:31.079
That's how they make TV.

1630
01:13:31.140 --> 01:13:31.979
It's so good.

1631
01:13:32.039 --> 01:13:32.939
So good.

1632
01:13:33.239 --> 01:13:35.279
I really love.

1633
01:13:35.279 --> 01:13:37.199
Oh, hang on a minute.

1634
01:13:37.260 --> 01:13:40.319
Sorry, I was about to say what I really love, but I'm so entranced

1635
01:13:40.319 --> 01:13:40.800
by the lighting.

1636
01:13:40.859 --> 01:13:44.100
I don't usually get to say complimentary things about how

1637
01:13:44.100 --> 01:13:45.600
dramatically lit these things are.

1638
01:13:45.659 --> 01:13:48.180
Deep say signs usually not too bad.

1639
01:13:48.239 --> 01:13:51.180
And this, I think, you know, they bring it down, don't they?

1640
01:13:51.239 --> 01:13:55.439
It's not so much the flat sort of hotel lighting. exactly.

1641
01:13:56.039 --> 01:13:56.460
Voyager.

1642
01:13:56.520 --> 01:14:00.779
But those sort of decorative, whatever the fuck they are, you know

1643
01:14:00.779 --> 01:14:02.220
the diagonal pipes.

1644
01:14:02.279 --> 01:14:03.779
Like they look really good.

1645
01:14:03.840 --> 01:14:06.000
They make the shot really interesting.

1646
01:14:06.119 --> 01:14:07.380
Is this Beaumont as well?

1647
01:14:07.560 --> 01:14:10.439
No, this is someone else?

1648
01:14:10.500 --> 01:14:12.840
Lando, I think this is...

1649
01:14:12.899 --> 01:14:16.319
It's still, like, I think the directors that they had, the

1650
01:14:16.319 --> 01:14:19.079
established directors that were doing the quieter episodes

1651
01:14:19.079 --> 01:14:22.859
responded really well later on when they were actually given some

1652
01:14:22.859 --> 01:14:24.180
exciting stuff to shoot.

1653
01:14:24.239 --> 01:14:25.859
I want to talk about Wolf.

1654
01:14:26.100 --> 01:14:26.880
Okay?

1655
01:14:26.939 --> 01:14:31.079
Because I think Wolf came onto DS9 and it, whilst he got some good

1656
01:14:31.079 --> 01:14:34.500
stuff in series four, I never forget him, you know, smoking away

1657
01:14:34.500 --> 01:14:37.500
on that cigar in Arman Bashir and things like that.

1658
01:14:37.560 --> 01:14:40.619
Um, I think it did take him a little while to settle.

1659
01:14:40.680 --> 01:14:44.819
I think come series 5 after Let He, who is without sin.

1660
01:14:44.880 --> 01:14:49.260
They've really learned how to write him for this show now, a bit

1661
01:14:49.260 --> 01:14:52.859
more complex with relationships with people.

1662
01:14:52.920 --> 01:14:55.859
And I just think he comes across, like you said, he's often

1663
01:14:55.859 --> 01:14:57.300
written as the character that's wrong.

1664
01:14:57.359 --> 01:14:59.100
And that is still often the case.

1665
01:14:59.159 --> 01:14:59.819
Yeah.

1666
01:14:59.880 --> 01:15:03.779
I just think that he's written for so much better here than he was

1667
01:15:03.840 --> 01:15:05.699
back in his TNG days.

1668
01:15:05.760 --> 01:15:07.079
Yeah, yeah.

1669
01:15:07.140 --> 01:15:10.020
Well, because it's a different show, you know, it's a different

1670
01:15:10.020 --> 01:15:14.399
type of show, and it's a show where fundamentally as we saw, you

1671
01:15:14.399 --> 01:15:18.899
know, last time people are their jobs and there's not, there's

1672
01:15:18.899 --> 01:15:21.300
often not a lot more to it than that.

1673
01:15:21.359 --> 01:15:24.539
And so here he gets scope to do much more interesting things, I

1674
01:15:24.539 --> 01:15:24.779
think.

1675
01:15:25.079 --> 01:15:28.920
I think maybe maybe in DS 9 people are their jobs and their

1676
01:15:28.920 --> 01:15:29.520
relationships.

1677
01:15:29.640 --> 01:15:31.800
Well, I think their relationship's more than that.

1678
01:15:31.859 --> 01:15:33.239
I think the jobs are less important.

1679
01:15:33.300 --> 01:15:36.300
I mean, still, it's Constable Odo made a major Kira.

1680
01:15:36.359 --> 01:15:40.500
You know, like they have names that are their jobs, but still, you

1681
01:15:40.500 --> 01:15:40.739
know.

1682
01:15:40.979 --> 01:15:45.300
I just, I love the fact that he, I think he would continue to

1683
01:15:45.300 --> 01:15:49.199
fight anyway, because that's his, that's his thing, you know, and

1684
01:15:49.199 --> 01:15:52.619
he's a man of well and he, he would never turn away from a fight.

1685
01:15:52.739 --> 01:15:58.140
But the fact that he allows himself to be beaten to essentially a

1686
01:15:58.140 --> 01:16:01.500
bloody pulp by the end of the episode to give Garak time to get

1687
01:16:01.500 --> 01:16:02.579
them onto the runabout.

1688
01:16:02.640 --> 01:16:05.340
I just think he comes across so well in this.

1689
01:16:05.340 --> 01:16:06.659
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1690
01:16:06.720 --> 01:16:07.859
And he looks great at the end.

1691
01:16:07.920 --> 01:16:12.060
There is that moment where the 2 of them again paying off the

1692
01:16:12.060 --> 01:16:15.420
scene from episode one.

1693
01:16:15.479 --> 01:16:18.060
Just look at each other and say, well done.

1694
01:16:18.119 --> 01:16:21.359
And it's like it's there's, it's a no bullshit thing.

1695
01:16:21.420 --> 01:16:23.520
Like it feels really real.

1696
01:16:23.579 --> 01:16:27.300
I thought it was a really a really well-done scene in a very kind

1697
01:16:27.300 --> 01:16:28.500
of minor way.

1698
01:16:28.560 --> 01:16:31.380
Like there wasn't, you know, it's not flashy or anything, but it

1699
01:16:31.380 --> 01:16:32.220
just does the job.

1700
01:16:32.279 --> 01:16:33.119
I think it was really good.

1701
01:16:33.479 --> 01:16:35.939
I did notice in this scene.

1702
01:16:36.779 --> 01:16:39.960
No, I think this is interesting, isn't it?

1703
01:16:40.020 --> 01:16:42.239
Because she hates Ducant.

1704
01:16:42.300 --> 01:16:43.859
But Zial doesn't.

1705
01:16:43.920 --> 01:16:49.800
Um, And like this scene, I'm not quite sure what's happening.

1706
01:16:49.859 --> 01:16:51.479
I think it's really good.

1707
01:16:51.539 --> 01:16:55.199
Like, she just gets to make a moral claim.

1708
01:16:55.260 --> 01:17:00.479
And I think that claim is right, you know, you can't judge people

1709
01:17:00.479 --> 01:17:03.899
by what they think or say, but only what they do.

1710
01:17:03.960 --> 01:17:08.340
Um, And like her response is really good.

1711
01:17:08.399 --> 01:17:10.079
Like she doesn't quite know what to think of it.

1712
01:17:10.140 --> 01:17:12.659
Like she goes a bit wide-eyed and stuff, you know.

1713
01:17:12.720 --> 01:17:15.779
I like it when she says, you think my father's evil?

1714
01:17:15.840 --> 01:17:16.859
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1715
01:17:16.920 --> 01:17:18.779
You know, and Kira's close to her.

1716
01:17:18.840 --> 01:17:20.520
So she knows she's got to play this sensitively.

1717
01:17:20.579 --> 01:17:21.840
She can't lie.

1718
01:17:21.840 --> 01:17:26.880
Brilliantly, in sons and daughters, in the ark, in seriously, when

1719
01:17:26.880 --> 01:17:32.340
uh, Siao comes back to the station, and Kira and Dukat are both

1720
01:17:32.340 --> 01:17:36.600
looking after it, and she started to play them as like parents, and

1721
01:17:36.600 --> 01:17:39.359
then, and that whole relationship is so interesting.

1722
01:17:39.420 --> 01:17:42.359
And then Kira suddenly looks herself in the mirror when Dekout's

1723
01:17:42.359 --> 01:17:45.659
given her gifts going, what the hell am I doing?

1724
01:17:45.720 --> 01:17:46.739
She actually says it out loud.

1725
01:17:46.800 --> 01:17:48.479
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

1726
01:17:48.539 --> 01:17:49.140
I remember that.

1727
01:17:49.920 --> 01:17:53.939
Oh, here's oh, yes, Robert O'Reilly.

1728
01:17:53.939 --> 01:17:55.920
He's bad.

1729
01:17:55.979 --> 01:18:01.020
He's so good Essentially, he is only here.

1730
01:18:01.079 --> 01:18:05.039
One to tie up the Klingon plot in a very anticlimactic speech of

1731
01:18:05.039 --> 01:18:07.920
just going, all right, well, Dominion's a bigger threat than us.

1732
01:18:07.979 --> 01:18:09.060
So that's it.

1733
01:18:09.180 --> 01:18:17.939
But I mean, it was kind of because it was revealed that, um, the

1734
01:18:17.939 --> 01:18:21.600
you know, that the changelings were behind the war.

1735
01:18:21.779 --> 01:18:23.399
Wasn't it?

1736
01:18:23.520 --> 01:18:24.479
Yeah, yeah.

1737
01:18:24.539 --> 01:18:25.439
The clue one more.

1738
01:18:25.500 --> 01:18:25.979
Yeah, absolutely.

1739
01:18:26.039 --> 01:18:26.699
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1740
01:18:26.760 --> 01:18:29.699
Martox whispering in Garon's ear the whole time.

1741
01:18:29.760 --> 01:18:30.420
Yeah, yeah.

1742
01:18:30.420 --> 01:18:33.060
And then Garon's the one over, what I loved about that was

1743
01:18:33.060 --> 01:18:35.699
remember when I watched it and I'm going, Jesus, Garon's over the

1744
01:18:35.699 --> 01:18:38.460
top in Way of the Warrior in a brilliant way, don't get me wrong

1745
01:18:38.460 --> 01:18:39.479
in a very watchable way.

1746
01:18:39.539 --> 01:18:42.180
And then when they revealed it was a changer, I'm like, okay

1747
01:18:42.180 --> 01:18:43.380
that's why he's out of character.

1748
01:18:43.439 --> 01:18:45.779
Then then when they revealed he wasn't a changing.

1749
01:18:45.840 --> 01:18:48.720
Well, he's just a terrible he's a terrible ham then, isn't he?

1750
01:18:51.840 --> 01:18:53.220
I love Gowron.

1751
01:18:53.279 --> 01:18:55.079
Yeah, he's great. isn't he?

1752
01:18:55.199 --> 01:18:57.960
Just remember him being introduced.

1753
01:18:58.020 --> 01:19:01.199
You know, and he was sort of so weird and leering, and you had the

1754
01:19:01.199 --> 01:19:04.560
choice between Durant, who we knew, was responsible for Worf's

1755
01:19:04.560 --> 01:19:06.300
this commendation.

1756
01:19:06.359 --> 01:19:08.579
And then we had Garon, who just looked like this at her weird

1757
01:19:08.579 --> 01:19:11.159
boggle eyes. skullhead guy.

1758
01:19:11.220 --> 01:19:13.859
And it's kind of like, God, what if he becomes leader of the

1759
01:19:13.859 --> 01:19:14.640
Klingon Empire?

1760
01:19:14.699 --> 01:19:15.420
It's so good.

1761
01:19:15.479 --> 01:19:20.520
If you're going to do that whole figurehead of an entire planet

1762
01:19:20.520 --> 01:19:22.920
then give them some personality, you know?

1763
01:19:22.979 --> 01:19:23.939
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1764
01:19:24.000 --> 01:19:27.899
No, he ends up being great in next gen as well as here.

1765
01:19:28.140 --> 01:19:30.000
Oh, I love all this.

1766
01:19:30.060 --> 01:19:32.340
Look, but she is doing something sinister in the runabout.

1767
01:19:32.399 --> 01:19:33.300
Yeah.

1768
01:19:33.300 --> 01:19:37.380
Whilst all this mad sort of galactic politicking is going on, he's

1769
01:19:37.380 --> 01:19:39.779
behind the scenes doing his little machinations.

1770
01:19:39.840 --> 01:19:43.199
So this is introducing his absurd plot, and that was just that

1771
01:19:43.199 --> 01:19:48.060
quiet wordless scene, which isn't explained, but reminds us to be

1772
01:19:48.060 --> 01:19:49.560
suspicious of him.

1773
01:19:49.619 --> 01:19:52.859
You know what, Bill, I love, though, is where he's knocked out all

1774
01:19:52.859 --> 01:19:55.680
the ensigns on the runabout and he's doing the woman's voice.

1775
01:19:55.800 --> 01:19:56.939
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1776
01:19:57.000 --> 01:19:57.539
It's great.

1777
01:19:57.600 --> 01:19:59.039
It's super weird.

1778
01:19:59.100 --> 01:20:01.020
Like, it's properly weird.

1779
01:20:01.079 --> 01:20:03.300
And, of course, he killed them all.

1780
01:20:03.359 --> 01:20:04.380
He hasn't knocked them out.

1781
01:20:04.439 --> 01:20:08.100
He's killed all of them because otherwise it wouldn't be okay for

1782
01:20:08.100 --> 01:20:09.479
us to blow up the ship, right?

1783
01:20:09.539 --> 01:20:11.399
So they're all dead.

1784
01:20:11.520 --> 01:20:12.539
Like, I think that's pretty great.

1785
01:20:12.600 --> 01:20:17.159
This might say something about me, you know, but I find Warf

1786
01:20:17.159 --> 01:20:19.680
weirdly hot when he's having all these fights.

1787
01:20:19.739 --> 01:20:20.819
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1788
01:20:21.239 --> 01:20:23.159
When they're beating the shit out of him.

1789
01:20:23.220 --> 01:20:24.420
I find it very hot.

1790
01:20:24.479 --> 01:20:25.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1791
01:20:26.100 --> 01:20:27.899
What's that all about?

1792
01:20:29.579 --> 01:20:32.880
I love the ribs thing.

1793
01:20:32.939 --> 01:20:34.619
Like, I love Julian.

1794
01:20:34.680 --> 01:20:36.539
Like this song, the song.

1795
01:20:36.600 --> 01:20:38.460
This is really fun.

1796
01:20:38.520 --> 01:20:39.659
This thing.

1797
01:20:39.720 --> 01:20:40.979
It's like a cheesy thing.

1798
01:20:41.039 --> 01:20:42.659
You know, they all write songs of us.

1799
01:20:42.720 --> 01:20:44.460
So I think, does Martoc say that?

1800
01:20:44.460 --> 01:20:47.760
And it's kind of like, yes, you know, we'll sing a song about

1801
01:20:47.760 --> 01:20:48.119
this.

1802
01:20:48.119 --> 01:20:52.260
And then you can be in the song and you'll be the brave doctor who

1803
01:20:52.260 --> 01:20:58.020
um, um, you know, patches him up and sends him back into battle.

1804
01:20:58.020 --> 01:21:04.020
And and Garrett goes, actually, um, I don't want to be the

1805
01:21:04.020 --> 01:21:09.180
Cardassian, who kind of shat himself and didn't do anything in

1806
01:21:09.180 --> 01:21:09.659
this song.

1807
01:21:09.720 --> 01:21:13.380
So I'll go back and like do the thing, which I think is really

1808
01:21:13.380 --> 01:21:13.619
good.

1809
01:21:13.680 --> 01:21:16.439
So this is the monologue, which is where we are now.

1810
01:21:16.560 --> 01:21:17.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1811
01:21:17.699 --> 01:21:21.899
What I will say is, um, Ira Bear and Robert Hewitt Wolf.

1812
01:21:21.960 --> 01:21:25.319
Now, they've been writing together now for 3 years since season 3

1813
01:21:25.319 --> 01:21:29.100
and they're doing all the biggies, improbable cause, the dice cast

1814
01:21:29.100 --> 01:21:29.880
Way of the Warrior.

1815
01:21:29.939 --> 01:21:32.220
They're doing all the big sort of 2 parters.

1816
01:21:32.279 --> 01:21:37.020
And Ira Bear said, at this point, we were basically so in tune and

1817
01:21:37.020 --> 01:21:38.460
we knew these characters so well.

1818
01:21:38.520 --> 01:21:40.800
We'd come in and we would bash out a whole act a day.

1819
01:21:40.859 --> 01:21:43.979
I think that's quite fast in television terms.

1820
01:21:44.039 --> 01:21:46.199
Do you want to hear something funny?

1821
01:21:46.260 --> 01:21:50.579
This was the 1st episode where Robert Hewitt Wolf.

1822
01:21:50.640 --> 01:21:53.760
Sorry, this was the 2nd episode where Robert Hewitt Wolf got his

1823
01:21:53.760 --> 01:21:56.699
name first, and Ira Bear was second. because Ira Bear was the

1824
01:21:56.699 --> 01:21:58.079
older experienced writer.

1825
01:21:58.140 --> 01:22:00.479
Robert Hewitt was quite a young man.

1826
01:22:00.539 --> 01:22:02.399
He was a young sort of whippersnapper.

1827
01:22:02.460 --> 01:22:04.800
And Arabia is like, you know, how dare you?

1828
01:22:04.859 --> 01:22:08.100
you know, like you, you young, you petuous youth, you know.

1829
01:22:08.159 --> 01:22:09.600
And then, of course, he did it.

1830
01:22:09.659 --> 01:22:13.619
He said, fine. will every other episode will put your name first.

1831
01:22:14.159 --> 01:22:16.140
And guess what happened?

1832
01:22:16.199 --> 01:22:17.039
What?

1833
01:22:17.039 --> 01:22:19.739
The 1st one was let he who is without sin.

1834
01:22:21.779 --> 01:22:26.399
See where that really, you go, that really backfired.

1835
01:22:26.399 --> 01:22:30.239
I'm hanging to see that again.

1836
01:22:30.300 --> 01:22:32.340
I might watch that again, because, I mean, it's got Vanessa

1837
01:22:32.340 --> 01:22:33.960
Williams in it, for God's sake.

1838
01:22:34.020 --> 01:22:34.920
Like that's pretty amazing.

1839
01:22:34.979 --> 01:22:38.640
Oh, no, it is as bad as you...

1840
01:22:40.439 --> 01:22:43.800
Although, do you know, I'm so pleased with doing this after those

1841
01:22:43.800 --> 01:22:45.420
2 dreary episodes we watched before.

1842
01:22:45.479 --> 01:22:48.060
It's lovely to be infused like this.

1843
01:22:48.119 --> 01:22:49.619
Yeah, exactly, exactly.

1844
01:22:50.760 --> 01:22:56.520
Oh, I did like this, the way he's sort of like...

1845
01:22:56.520 --> 01:22:57.600
Oh, that shot, too.

1846
01:22:57.659 --> 01:23:00.300
Like that shot from above is very odd, isn't it?

1847
01:23:00.359 --> 01:23:02.279
Like, we don't go back to that shot.

1848
01:23:02.340 --> 01:23:04.380
That's, you know, something.

1849
01:23:04.380 --> 01:23:07.140
Like, I like him going in and kind of fishing him out.

1850
01:23:07.199 --> 01:23:14.340
Um, but the bit that I really, really like is when we get, um, like

1851
01:23:14.340 --> 01:23:18.359
he says that he's going to go back in and Martok and Worf agree

1852
01:23:18.359 --> 01:23:23.819
that that's an incredibly brave thing to do, that that's an

1853
01:23:23.819 --> 01:23:25.500
impressively brave thing to do.

1854
01:23:25.560 --> 01:23:28.979
And it would have been easy for, you know, you could have just

1855
01:23:28.979 --> 01:23:33.539
easy, just as easily said, um, you know, being scared of things

1856
01:23:33.539 --> 01:23:36.840
like that as a massive, you know, is terrible cowardice and

1857
01:23:36.840 --> 01:23:38.880
dishonourable and embarrassing.

1858
01:23:39.000 --> 01:23:40.140
But they don't do that.

1859
01:23:40.199 --> 01:23:45.359
You know, the writers choose to make him make them properly

1860
01:23:45.359 --> 01:23:47.279
appreciate what courage is.

1861
01:23:47.340 --> 01:23:48.060
I think it's really good.

1862
01:23:48.359 --> 01:23:52.439
It's something we said before about wharf and DSI.

1863
01:23:52.500 --> 01:23:54.539
They can make him act like a twat.

1864
01:23:54.600 --> 01:23:55.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1865
01:23:55.439 --> 01:23:57.779
They can give him great moments.

1866
01:23:57.779 --> 01:24:02.100
Do you remember when he apologised to Orcan O'Brien and Bashir in

1867
01:24:02.100 --> 01:24:03.000
Shadows and Cymbals?

1868
01:24:03.060 --> 01:24:04.020
Yeah, yeah.

1869
01:24:04.079 --> 01:24:05.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1870
01:24:05.340 --> 01:24:08.159
They're giving really, really great moments to go.

1871
01:24:08.159 --> 01:24:08.640
Find him.

1872
01:24:08.699 --> 01:24:11.279
Yeah, and we should be behind him sometimes.

1873
01:24:11.340 --> 01:24:12.479
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1874
01:24:12.539 --> 01:24:14.699
Let's check out that lift.

1875
01:24:14.760 --> 01:24:15.420
It's pretty good.

1876
01:24:18.539 --> 01:24:25.500
So is she wearing that outfit because she's come back to work

1877
01:24:25.500 --> 01:24:26.460
after being pregnant?

1878
01:24:26.579 --> 01:24:28.500
She's still got her baby weight.

1879
01:24:28.560 --> 01:24:30.000
Yeah, this is only a couple episodes later.

1880
01:24:30.060 --> 01:24:30.960
Yeah, yeah.

1881
01:24:31.020 --> 01:24:32.100
I mean, I like it.

1882
01:24:32.159 --> 01:24:33.119
I think it looks really good.

1883
01:24:33.180 --> 01:24:35.399
She was so annoyed, you know.

1884
01:24:35.460 --> 01:24:36.899
She went, can you believe it?

1885
01:24:36.960 --> 01:24:39.899
You know, this baby, I couldn't get to be in the trible episode.

1886
01:24:42.539 --> 01:24:46.079
So every time there's a fun episode after this, she's like, you

1887
01:24:46.079 --> 01:24:46.680
give me a good part.

1888
01:24:46.739 --> 01:24:48.600
That's why she's on that piano singing fever.

1889
01:24:48.659 --> 01:24:49.920
Right. wonderful.

1890
01:24:49.979 --> 01:24:50.819
That's so great.

1891
01:24:50.880 --> 01:24:52.079
So sexy.

1892
01:24:52.140 --> 01:24:53.340
Yeah, I know.

1893
01:24:53.399 --> 01:24:54.659
Such a great song too.

1894
01:24:54.720 --> 01:24:57.060
Oh, this is Cisco and Ducat.

1895
01:24:57.119 --> 01:24:58.079
This is always great.

1896
01:24:58.140 --> 01:24:59.760
I love this scene.

1897
01:25:01.020 --> 01:25:04.859
Is this a bit where he says, I'm going to give you the opportunity

1898
01:25:04.859 --> 01:25:07.439
now, because you and I have had some encounters in the past.

1899
01:25:07.500 --> 01:25:09.659
So you get off that station before we come.

1900
01:25:09.720 --> 01:25:11.100
Yeah, yeah.

1901
01:25:11.159 --> 01:25:14.579
Well, I love the, I love the, he tells him off of just calling him

1902
01:25:14.579 --> 01:25:16.739
Ducart and not using a title.

1903
01:25:16.800 --> 01:25:17.579
I'm head of the government.

1904
01:25:17.640 --> 01:25:18.960
He says I don't recognise the government.

1905
01:25:19.020 --> 01:25:19.800
It's so good.

1906
01:25:19.859 --> 01:25:26.760
It's so great And he's just not willing to play along at all or

1907
01:25:26.760 --> 01:25:28.859
just take any of his shit, you know.

1908
01:25:29.100 --> 01:25:32.279
But is this is this all gloating?

1909
01:25:32.340 --> 01:25:36.779
Or is he genuinely trying to say get out of there because that

1910
01:25:36.779 --> 01:25:37.979
device is going to go off?

1911
01:25:38.039 --> 01:25:39.119
No.

1912
01:25:39.239 --> 01:25:41.819
Oh, yeah, okay.

1913
01:25:41.880 --> 01:25:44.039
No, I don't think so.

1914
01:25:44.100 --> 01:25:45.359
Well, they have.

1915
01:25:45.420 --> 01:25:48.899
I mean, they have shared a lot of episodes before this where they

1916
01:25:48.899 --> 01:25:51.960
have work together and developed a lot of friendship, but a

1917
01:25:51.960 --> 01:25:52.439
record.

1918
01:25:52.500 --> 01:25:54.659
Does he even know about that?

1919
01:25:55.920 --> 01:25:57.840
Oh, that's a good point.

1920
01:25:57.899 --> 01:25:58.979
I don't know.

1921
01:25:59.039 --> 01:26:02.520
I, like it might, we might find out that he does, but he may not.

1922
01:26:02.579 --> 01:26:04.380
And it is kind of a bit trivial.

1923
01:26:04.439 --> 01:26:05.460
It never really goes anywhere.

1924
01:26:05.520 --> 01:26:09.180
It's not super important for anything other than just to be a

1925
01:26:09.180 --> 01:26:10.500
climax to this episode.

1926
01:26:11.279 --> 01:26:13.439
Maybe he doesn't know.

1927
01:26:13.500 --> 01:26:16.979
Where he says everything that was Cardassian will be reclaiming.

1928
01:26:17.039 --> 01:26:18.960
Yeah, including...

1929
01:26:18.960 --> 01:26:21.000
I'm going to take the station from you and they do.

1930
01:26:21.060 --> 01:26:24.239
I'm going to wipe out the marquee and they do.

1931
01:26:24.300 --> 01:26:26.760
So all these promises he makes, he delivers.

1932
01:26:26.819 --> 01:26:31.619
I like I like Cisco's comeback, which is, oh, really, Cardassian?

1933
01:26:31.680 --> 01:26:34.020
I thought it was built by Bajoran slave labour, which is a

1934
01:26:34.020 --> 01:26:35.819
particularly good line for him to deliver.

1935
01:26:35.880 --> 01:26:36.239
I think.

1936
01:26:36.300 --> 01:26:37.140
That's really great.

1937
01:26:37.800 --> 01:26:40.140
You're welcome to try.

1938
01:26:40.199 --> 01:26:41.760
And then he hangs up on him.

1939
01:26:41.819 --> 01:26:42.180
So good.

1940
01:26:42.239 --> 01:26:44.699
And then they pay off this scene, don't they?

1941
01:26:44.760 --> 01:26:45.359
in the last scene.

1942
01:26:45.840 --> 01:26:49.920
Where Dakart's like, ah, well, you saw through our little plan.

1943
01:26:49.979 --> 01:26:50.579
Did you?

1944
01:26:50.640 --> 01:26:51.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1945
01:26:51.899 --> 01:26:55.560
I made, but they do specifically say, you know, like wars come in

1946
01:26:55.560 --> 01:26:58.800
and Cisco says, well, we'll see about tomorrow, you know?

1947
01:26:58.859 --> 01:26:59.520
Yeah, yeah.

1948
01:26:59.579 --> 01:27:03.060
Yeah, no, I think like and like they hold off for a little bit, but

1949
01:27:03.060 --> 01:27:07.140
I think that that's really good, like just having the Dominion

1950
01:27:07.140 --> 01:27:12.960
nearby, you know, as part of the the quadrant.

1951
01:27:12.960 --> 01:27:15.000
Because, I mean, that's the thing that this show creates, isn't

1952
01:27:15.000 --> 01:27:15.180
it?

1953
01:27:15.239 --> 01:27:19.140
It's like a quadrant that has Klingons and Romulans and Breen and

1954
01:27:19.140 --> 01:27:22.020
Cardassians and stuff and they're the major powers.

1955
01:27:22.079 --> 01:27:25.439
You know, you get a hint of that in TNG.

1956
01:27:25.500 --> 01:27:27.960
Can you see why this season impacted me so much?

1957
01:27:27.960 --> 01:27:31.560
Because this is where it was just all shifting in such an exciting

1958
01:27:31.560 --> 01:27:31.920
way.

1959
01:27:31.979 --> 01:27:32.819
Yeah.

1960
01:27:32.819 --> 01:27:37.079
Yeah, well, I mean, you know, like discovery changes its premise

1961
01:27:37.079 --> 01:27:37.560
all the time.

1962
01:27:37.619 --> 01:27:39.960
It's done that over and over again.

1963
01:27:40.020 --> 01:27:46.619
Um, and I think that it has a fair bit in common with Deep Space

1964
01:27:46.619 --> 01:27:47.100
9.

1965
01:27:47.159 --> 01:27:50.939
Like, I think, you know, Strangely Worlds is the Star Trek, the

1966
01:27:50.939 --> 01:27:54.359
next generation discoveries approach to just telling an ongoing

1967
01:27:54.359 --> 01:27:59.340
story, which changes and is from time to time a bit of a mess. like

1968
01:27:59.340 --> 01:28:01.079
owes something to Deep Space 9, I think.

1969
01:28:02.159 --> 01:28:03.600
Yeah.

1970
01:28:03.659 --> 01:28:06.899
But like in the same breath of sort of all the shifts happening.

1971
01:28:06.960 --> 01:28:10.319
You were getting episodes like trials and tribulations, rapture

1972
01:28:10.319 --> 01:28:14.460
for the uniform, children of time in the world.

1973
01:28:14.520 --> 01:28:15.899
There's such a lot going on.

1974
01:28:15.960 --> 01:28:17.880
Like they've got so many things going.

1975
01:28:17.939 --> 01:28:20.760
It's like for the uniform thing, it's like, 0 yeah, we've got

1976
01:28:20.760 --> 01:28:21.180
Eddington.

1977
01:28:21.239 --> 01:28:23.760
We can do an Eddington episode amidst all of this.

1978
01:28:23.819 --> 01:28:24.479
It's pretty great.

1979
01:28:24.539 --> 01:28:26.100
Oh, you remember that one?

1980
01:28:26.220 --> 01:28:27.600
Rebecca.

1981
01:28:28.020 --> 01:28:30.180
He's not coming.

1982
01:28:30.180 --> 01:28:30.659
He's not coming.

1983
01:28:32.640 --> 01:28:34.739
We'll never forget.

1984
01:28:34.800 --> 01:28:37.739
So good. great.

1985
01:28:37.800 --> 01:28:40.680
He's Julian doing some low level.

1986
01:28:40.680 --> 01:28:44.039
Don't you know?

1987
01:28:44.039 --> 01:28:45.779
I love Brian's reaction at the end.

1988
01:28:45.779 --> 01:28:48.000
He goes, are you telling me I've been hanging out with a

1989
01:28:48.000 --> 01:28:49.079
changeling for a month?

1990
01:28:49.800 --> 01:28:52.619
It's pretty great, isn't it?

1991
01:28:52.680 --> 01:28:56.279
He says that he knew or something or that, like, he was super

1992
01:28:56.279 --> 01:29:00.060
annoying or, you know, less good at dance or something or

1993
01:29:00.060 --> 01:29:00.420
something.

1994
01:29:00.479 --> 01:29:02.460
Oh, dear.

1995
01:29:02.520 --> 01:29:04.859
Yeah, see, he's doing his terrible evil acting.

1996
01:29:04.920 --> 01:29:05.699
It's so bad.

1997
01:29:05.760 --> 01:29:07.500
It's so bad.

1998
01:29:07.560 --> 01:29:10.199
It's just sort of like the emotions drained from the performance

1999
01:29:10.199 --> 01:29:10.560
you know?

2000
01:29:10.619 --> 01:29:12.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2001
01:29:12.180 --> 01:29:14.520
But it is, I just keep thinking of the passenger.

2002
01:29:14.699 --> 01:29:16.739
In contrast.

2003
01:29:16.800 --> 01:29:22.260
No, because in the passenger, who's doing that very English...

2004
01:29:22.319 --> 01:29:26.220
Not at all, gentlemen, I've been expecting you more.

2005
01:29:26.340 --> 01:29:27.899
Terrible.

2006
01:29:31.020 --> 01:29:37.020
But I think it does contrast well because I think Arbashire, our

2007
01:29:37.020 --> 01:29:40.380
membership, is more naturalistic than ever.

2008
01:29:40.439 --> 01:29:43.319
And I really think he's gotten under the skin of the character at

2009
01:29:43.319 --> 01:29:43.739
this point.

2010
01:29:43.800 --> 01:29:46.619
You go back to series one and he's a bit annoying, you know?

2011
01:29:46.680 --> 01:29:47.399
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2012
01:29:47.460 --> 01:29:47.939
Yeah, yeah.

2013
01:29:48.000 --> 01:29:48.300
Yeah.

2014
01:29:48.359 --> 01:29:50.159
I think they kind of retool him a little bit.

2015
01:29:50.159 --> 01:29:54.539
This is this is quartz contractual obligations soon, but I do love

2016
01:29:54.539 --> 01:29:55.260
his lines.

2017
01:29:55.319 --> 01:29:56.220
Do you know what?

2018
01:29:56.279 --> 01:29:57.779
My business propositions are not great.

2019
01:29:57.840 --> 01:29:59.100
This is funny.

2020
01:29:59.159 --> 01:30:03.300
I think this is really funny and it's making fun of both the

2021
01:30:03.300 --> 01:30:06.779
Jemhadar and the changelings because they're stupid science

2022
01:30:06.779 --> 01:30:10.920
fiction people who don't drink, eat, or have sex.

2023
01:30:10.979 --> 01:30:14.460
And then, see, all's comeback is so great.

2024
01:30:14.520 --> 01:30:18.539
For all we know, the vorder of sex maniacs, we drink all the

2025
01:30:18.539 --> 01:30:18.779
time.

2026
01:30:18.840 --> 01:30:23.100
I just thought that's such a funny line coming from ZR and it

2027
01:30:23.100 --> 01:30:25.199
cheers quite up immediately.

2028
01:30:25.260 --> 01:30:26.819
It's really good.

2029
01:30:26.880 --> 01:30:31.560
Like, it serves to make fun of the science fiction premise of the

2030
01:30:31.560 --> 01:30:34.859
show at the same time as African.

2031
01:30:34.859 --> 01:30:36.539
And it gives him he's good. as well.

2032
01:30:36.600 --> 01:30:37.680
Yeah, it's good.

2033
01:30:37.739 --> 01:30:39.060
Yeah, really great.

2034
01:30:39.300 --> 01:30:42.960
Actually, see how does get the odd moment like that, you know?

2035
01:30:43.079 --> 01:30:45.479
Yeah, well, it's super likeable.

2036
01:30:45.539 --> 01:30:49.319
It's like she's the one who cheers Quark up, which is great.

2037
01:30:49.380 --> 01:30:53.159
And again, you know, it's setting us up for some upsetting things

2038
01:30:53.159 --> 01:30:54.420
at the beginning of the next season.

2039
01:30:54.720 --> 01:30:56.699
Oh, look here.

2040
01:30:56.760 --> 01:30:58.199
So the chinks are happening here.

2041
01:30:58.260 --> 01:31:00.300
The vorta's going, like, is he mad?

2042
01:31:00.359 --> 01:31:01.560
Doesn't he ever tire this?

2043
01:31:01.619 --> 01:31:02.100
Yeah, yeah.

2044
01:31:02.100 --> 01:31:05.399
Is looking at war with total admiration?

2045
01:31:05.460 --> 01:31:08.460
And he goes, no, I never tire of it.

2046
01:31:08.520 --> 01:31:09.060
Yep.

2047
01:31:09.119 --> 01:31:10.140
Yeah, yeah.

2048
01:31:10.199 --> 01:31:11.579
It's it's properly good.

2049
01:31:11.640 --> 01:31:16.859
No, here it's made clear that the 2 of them are alike and and...

2050
01:31:16.859 --> 01:31:18.300
Yes.

2051
01:31:18.359 --> 01:31:22.979
Like the 2 of them are the same and they share something that the

2052
01:31:22.979 --> 01:31:26.159
vorta doesn't, that he's got more in common with warf than that he

2053
01:31:26.159 --> 01:31:27.239
does with the vorta.

2054
01:31:27.420 --> 01:31:31.619
And I do, I think there was some genuine suspension as we keep

2055
01:31:31.619 --> 01:31:33.479
cutting back to the cell and Garak.

2056
01:31:33.539 --> 01:31:37.619
The only thing that marred it for me was I thought the Gemadar

2057
01:31:37.619 --> 01:31:39.239
were a bit thick at times.

2058
01:31:39.300 --> 01:31:40.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2059
01:31:40.979 --> 01:31:41.819
Yeah.

2060
01:31:41.880 --> 01:31:44.640
When he goes, sir, I have this tool.

2061
01:31:47.819 --> 01:31:50.460
You deserve to be killed, mate.

2062
01:31:50.520 --> 01:31:53.279
I kind of like this too.

2063
01:31:53.340 --> 01:31:55.380
So Tane built this, didn't he?

2064
01:31:55.439 --> 01:31:57.119
And he built it.

2065
01:31:57.539 --> 01:32:03.000
Like out of like the, like some completely unrelated system and

2066
01:32:03.000 --> 01:32:05.460
turned it into a communicator, which I think is pretty great.

2067
01:32:05.460 --> 01:32:11.100
It does take a long time for him to rewire it, doesn't it?

2068
01:32:11.220 --> 01:32:14.939
Yeah, well, yeah, Cardassians are very convoluted, you know?

2069
01:32:15.000 --> 01:32:17.579
Oh no, I mean, they kind of sell it, I think, in the explanation.

2070
01:32:17.640 --> 01:32:21.119
And this is so, it's so clear what the stakes are.

2071
01:32:21.239 --> 01:32:22.560
It's obvious what's going on.

2072
01:32:22.619 --> 01:32:28.199
Like, it doesn't need a lot of stupid kind of exposition or

2073
01:32:28.199 --> 01:32:28.979
anything like that.

2074
01:32:29.039 --> 01:32:31.319
We just understand this perfectly, I think.

2075
01:32:31.439 --> 01:32:34.260
Wow, you just got ploughed right in the face.

2076
01:32:34.319 --> 01:32:35.039
Yeah, yeah.

2077
01:32:36.840 --> 01:32:40.199
Well, that's one thing I do like about the Gemadai.

2078
01:32:40.260 --> 01:32:41.159
They are a bit vicious.

2079
01:32:41.220 --> 01:32:42.180
Yeah, yeah.

2080
01:32:42.239 --> 01:32:43.680
Well, they, you know?

2081
01:32:43.739 --> 01:32:46.739
Do you know, you remember they've got those weapons with the

2082
01:32:46.739 --> 01:32:48.000
enormous blades?

2083
01:32:48.060 --> 01:32:52.199
I mean, there are scenes where you see them like slicing bases and

2084
01:32:52.199 --> 01:32:54.359
stabbing people and...

2085
01:32:54.359 --> 01:32:56.039
Well, you know, very PG kind of way.

2086
01:32:56.100 --> 01:33:00.539
But it's nice to have...

2087
01:33:00.539 --> 01:33:04.619
You root, think of an alien racing TNG that was sort of

2088
01:33:04.619 --> 01:33:05.520
viscerally...

2089
01:33:05.939 --> 01:33:06.359
Yeah, yeah.

2090
01:33:06.420 --> 01:33:08.220
I can't think of one.

2091
01:33:08.279 --> 01:33:13.380
Well, what about what about the Videans in Voyager?

2092
01:33:14.340 --> 01:33:16.079
You say that.

2093
01:33:16.140 --> 01:33:19.140
I do think that's a great idea, the particular harvesting organs.

2094
01:33:19.199 --> 01:33:19.979
Yeah, yeah.

2095
01:33:20.039 --> 01:33:22.260
They're a little bit like Borg, but...

2096
01:33:22.260 --> 01:33:24.119
Because they're portrayed as victims.

2097
01:33:24.180 --> 01:33:26.340
We don't quite get the horror element, right?

2098
01:33:26.399 --> 01:33:26.699
you know?

2099
01:33:26.760 --> 01:33:29.460
Yeah, no, it's kind of a bit too gross.

2100
01:33:29.579 --> 01:33:30.180
There we go.

2101
01:33:30.239 --> 01:33:31.920
Look, Kira's off to the defiance.

2102
01:33:31.979 --> 01:33:32.340
Take charge.

2103
01:33:32.460 --> 01:33:33.539
Yeah, woo hoo.

2104
01:33:33.600 --> 01:33:36.420
And deploy the runabouts, and here's the runabouts hero scene.

2105
01:33:36.899 --> 01:33:39.300
Deploy the runabouts.

2106
01:33:39.420 --> 01:33:40.319
I love it.

2107
01:33:40.380 --> 01:33:42.119
How many have we got?

2108
01:33:42.180 --> 01:33:42.659
We've got two.

2109
01:33:42.960 --> 01:33:45.960
Four, I think, mentioned in dialogue.

2110
01:33:46.020 --> 01:33:47.279
Okay.

2111
01:33:47.340 --> 01:33:50.640
I mean they do manage to assemble quite a fleet in the end, don't

2112
01:33:50.640 --> 01:33:50.760
they?

2113
01:33:50.880 --> 01:33:53.760
The Yukon, the Rio Grande, the Volga.

2114
01:33:53.819 --> 01:33:57.539
Oh, maybe it's only 3 and now he's, yeah.

2115
01:33:57.600 --> 01:34:00.479
And so he has killed all of them.

2116
01:34:00.539 --> 01:34:02.340
We can't show blood or anything like that.

2117
01:34:02.399 --> 01:34:03.720
It just looks like they've passed out.

2118
01:34:03.779 --> 01:34:07.140
But I think they have to be dead so that we can blow up the ship.

2119
01:34:07.199 --> 01:34:08.579
Yeah.

2120
01:34:08.699 --> 01:34:09.300
Yeah, yeah.

2121
01:34:09.899 --> 01:34:11.880
I thought, you know what?

2122
01:34:11.939 --> 01:34:16.500
I don't care how tacky the idea is that they're gonna put a bomb

2123
01:34:16.500 --> 01:34:18.180
into the sun.

2124
01:34:18.239 --> 01:34:19.739
Yeah, I didn't 1st watch this.

2125
01:34:19.800 --> 01:34:22.859
It was the most exciting idea. awesome.

2126
01:34:22.920 --> 01:34:26.579
No, no, I think it's really great. but I do think that it doesn't

2127
01:34:26.579 --> 01:34:27.000
go...

2128
01:34:27.060 --> 01:34:28.079
Oh, far out.

2129
01:34:28.140 --> 01:34:33.840
Can I just say that when I saw the Romulan Warbirds uncloak, it

2130
01:34:33.840 --> 01:34:38.100
just struck me how incredibly great those warbirds look.

2131
01:34:38.159 --> 01:34:42.359
And do you remember, like, they 1st appear at the end of series

2132
01:34:42.359 --> 01:34:44.279
one of Star Trek, the Next Generation?

2133
01:34:44.399 --> 01:34:46.319
Oh, the Neutral Zion.

2134
01:34:46.380 --> 01:34:48.119
And they look magnificent.

2135
01:34:48.180 --> 01:34:49.380
They look so good.

2136
01:34:49.439 --> 01:34:54.300
And, uh, and, you know, the ship design in this show in all of the

2137
01:34:54.300 --> 01:34:57.479
Star Trek has been just tremendous, like we were praising the

2138
01:34:57.479 --> 01:34:59.340
JemHadar cockroach ships.

2139
01:34:59.399 --> 01:35:03.420
What's great is when you get to like sacrifice of angels, you've

2140
01:35:03.420 --> 01:35:06.539
got all those different designs of ships and they're weaving in

2141
01:35:06.539 --> 01:35:08.279
and out and there's laser beams everywhere.

2142
01:35:08.399 --> 01:35:12.539
Now we just missed a self-sealing, self-sealing stem bolt

2143
01:35:12.539 --> 01:35:16.739
reference from Julian, who says...

2144
01:35:16.800 --> 01:35:17.399
Yeah, yeah.

2145
01:35:17.460 --> 01:35:21.000
So that that weird thing that he uses to open the panel.

2146
01:35:21.060 --> 01:35:24.479
He says, well, either it's a self-sealing, self-sealing stemble.

2147
01:35:24.539 --> 01:35:25.260
I can't even say it.

2148
01:35:25.319 --> 01:35:26.100
So good.

2149
01:35:26.159 --> 01:35:27.060
There we go.

2150
01:35:27.119 --> 01:35:30.600
I think that is one of the most absurd running jokes because they

2151
01:35:30.600 --> 01:35:31.979
do mention them several times.

2152
01:35:32.039 --> 01:35:33.539
It's really fun, isn't it?

2153
01:35:33.600 --> 01:35:34.319
It's so good.

2154
01:35:34.380 --> 01:35:37.260
But it just makes me happy about that fun B plot.

2155
01:35:37.319 --> 01:35:40.500
Like it was progress, you know, way back in series one that

2156
01:35:40.500 --> 01:35:41.279
adorable.

2157
01:35:41.340 --> 01:35:42.239
Stop defeat, Nathan.

2158
01:35:42.300 --> 01:35:45.119
They don't forget anything on the show, no. which is great.

2159
01:35:45.239 --> 01:35:46.380
Except Star Trek.

2160
01:35:46.439 --> 01:35:49.260
Except the things that they should forget about.

2161
01:35:49.319 --> 01:35:52.439
Yeah, they don't mention the Meridian planet again.

2162
01:35:52.560 --> 01:35:53.159
No, no.

2163
01:35:53.220 --> 01:35:54.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

2164
01:35:54.180 --> 01:35:57.300
Or, you know, Luaxander Troy is love the virus.

2165
01:35:57.359 --> 01:35:57.899
Yeah.

2166
01:35:58.800 --> 01:36:00.180
Yes.

2167
01:36:00.239 --> 01:36:04.560
And there is, there is, um, some energy to these fights.

2168
01:36:04.619 --> 01:36:06.359
I thought they were really well choreographed.

2169
01:36:06.420 --> 01:36:08.699
And I can't tell that there's a stunt double involved.

2170
01:36:08.760 --> 01:36:12.720
Yeah, well, they've all got big heaps of latex on them.

2171
01:36:12.779 --> 01:36:13.500
It's hard to tell.

2172
01:36:13.560 --> 01:36:14.640
It's not like the...

2173
01:36:14.640 --> 01:36:15.239
Well, you say that.

2174
01:36:15.300 --> 01:36:18.420
You say that, but you go and watch tacking into the wind where

2175
01:36:18.420 --> 01:36:22.800
Gowron dies and it's very clear for most of that sequence, so it

2176
01:36:22.800 --> 01:36:23.579
is not what works.

2177
01:36:23.640 --> 01:36:24.239
Right, okay.

2178
01:36:24.300 --> 01:36:25.500
It's the eyes.

2179
01:36:25.560 --> 01:36:26.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2180
01:36:26.819 --> 01:36:28.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah. fair enough.

2181
01:36:29.640 --> 01:36:32.159
So he's still in there, isn't he?

2182
01:36:32.220 --> 01:36:32.520
Yeah.

2183
01:36:32.579 --> 01:36:33.180
Yeah.

2184
01:36:33.180 --> 01:36:34.260
It's just dark.

2185
01:36:34.319 --> 01:36:35.579
Oh here we go.

2186
01:36:35.640 --> 01:36:43.199
Yeah, brain. there you go And then she, but then we get, Yes, the

2187
01:36:43.199 --> 01:36:48.060
brain gets very quickly and I think she gets killed, doesn't she?

2188
01:36:48.119 --> 01:36:51.239
And then Bashir stabs a Jemadar in the neck.

2189
01:36:51.300 --> 01:36:53.279
The neck, that occurred to me is a thing too.

2190
01:36:53.340 --> 01:36:55.079
It's kind of like, woo hoo, okay.

2191
01:36:55.140 --> 01:36:58.199
I think that was the one that hate him in the face, you know.

2192
01:36:58.260 --> 01:36:59.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah, good.

2193
01:37:00.899 --> 01:37:02.880
Trying to work in here.

2194
01:37:03.359 --> 01:37:06.960
I know I know what you're saying about PG-13.

2195
01:37:07.140 --> 01:37:09.300
There isn't any blood or anything like that, but it is violent.

2196
01:37:09.359 --> 01:37:10.140
I do like all that.

2197
01:37:10.199 --> 01:37:10.859
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2198
01:37:10.920 --> 01:37:11.819
And there's a bit of blood.

2199
01:37:11.880 --> 01:37:15.180
Like we get a bit of blood on wharf space and this is really kind

2200
01:37:15.180 --> 01:37:15.960
of full on.

2201
01:37:16.020 --> 01:37:21.779
And like, we have to assume that, oh, see this.

2202
01:37:21.840 --> 01:37:23.279
Do you know what I mean?

2203
01:37:23.340 --> 01:37:27.300
Like giving the character a way of indicating that he's not going

2204
01:37:27.300 --> 01:37:28.439
to give up the fight.

2205
01:37:28.500 --> 01:37:34.500
And I really, I like the speech. like I really like that Jem'adar

2206
01:37:34.500 --> 01:37:35.039
speech.

2207
01:37:35.159 --> 01:37:41.340
It's the, it's, it's, I can't beat him, all I can do is kill him

2208
01:37:41.340 --> 01:37:45.420
and that no longer holds my interest, and I think that's so good.

2209
01:37:46.680 --> 01:37:52.260
And, you know, they're these sort of weird ass clone, genetically

2210
01:37:52.260 --> 01:37:54.359
engineered, whatever the hell they are.

2211
01:37:54.840 --> 01:38:00.779
But they're the only kind of moral people in the Dominion, despite

2212
01:38:00.779 --> 01:38:01.680
all the viciousness.

2213
01:38:01.739 --> 01:38:04.800
They're the only ones who have some kind of ethos.

2214
01:38:04.859 --> 01:38:06.600
Every now again.

2215
01:38:06.659 --> 01:38:08.460
They bring in a Jem'Hadar character.

2216
01:38:08.520 --> 01:38:11.279
Do you remember the one in series 2 is trying to cure that one

2217
01:38:11.279 --> 01:38:14.159
legion of Jemadar of addiction to the white?

2218
01:38:14.460 --> 01:38:16.859
And then in series 6 rocks and shoals, you've got the one who

2219
01:38:16.859 --> 01:38:20.640
knows that if he sends his men into that canyon, that Cisco's

2220
01:38:20.640 --> 01:38:23.460
going to kill them all and he does it anyway because that's what

2221
01:38:23.460 --> 01:38:24.539
his program.

2222
01:38:24.600 --> 01:38:28.439
But every and again, they have a really interesting Gemadark. he's

2223
01:38:28.439 --> 01:38:28.739
one of them.

2224
01:38:28.800 --> 01:38:29.279
Yeah.

2225
01:38:29.279 --> 01:38:31.800
Oh, the Romulan escaped.

2226
01:38:31.859 --> 01:38:34.199
I'm glad about that because she helped.

2227
01:38:34.260 --> 01:38:36.779
She can, I don't know, what she does.

2228
01:38:36.840 --> 01:38:37.680
She's.

2229
01:38:37.739 --> 01:38:41.100
And we retroactively pretend that that is Senator, Senator

2230
01:38:41.100 --> 01:38:41.699
Cretac.

2231
01:38:41.760 --> 01:38:42.239
That would have been great.

2232
01:38:42.300 --> 01:38:43.260
I was just thinking about her.

2233
01:38:43.319 --> 01:38:46.020
She could be a little playmate for Senator Gretag.

2234
01:38:47.760 --> 01:38:49.920
She was gay, wouldn't she?

2235
01:38:49.979 --> 01:38:51.840
Well, clearly.

2236
01:38:51.899 --> 01:38:53.640
No, she was from the late...

2237
01:38:53.699 --> 01:38:55.380
So now we think, whoa, the plot's over, you know?

2238
01:38:55.439 --> 01:38:56.340
escaped from the prison?

2239
01:38:56.939 --> 01:38:59.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2240
01:38:59.399 --> 01:38:59.880
That's right.

2241
01:38:59.939 --> 01:39:04.380
And so this is this is the climax because we need a win.

2242
01:39:04.439 --> 01:39:08.699
I love this, though, because this is like, right, we want to do a

2243
01:39:08.699 --> 01:39:10.319
space battle, but we can't afford it yet.

2244
01:39:10.380 --> 01:39:14.399
So sorry, it's like, well, we're getting signals from all over the

2245
01:39:14.399 --> 01:39:14.699
place.

2246
01:39:15.300 --> 01:39:17.399
And there's nothing on the screen.

2247
01:39:17.760 --> 01:39:25.380
Yeah, I think too, that they're wise to kind of hold their fire on

2248
01:39:25.380 --> 01:39:30.720
that, you know, like that that letting us anticipate that battle.

2249
01:39:30.779 --> 01:39:32.520
Like, let's not blow it instantly.

2250
01:39:32.579 --> 01:39:36.720
We've already seen heaps of Gemadar ships, you know, pouring into

2251
01:39:36.720 --> 01:39:38.279
the quadrant through the wormhole.

2252
01:39:38.340 --> 01:39:41.340
We don't need to see them this week, I think.

2253
01:39:41.399 --> 01:39:44.939
Let's hold off on that. comes to it in a call to arms.

2254
01:39:45.000 --> 01:39:46.920
It's not a decent moment.

2255
01:39:46.979 --> 01:39:48.899
And then they do the same thing again.

2256
01:39:48.960 --> 01:39:51.479
They hold back from showing a battle throughout those whole 6

2257
01:39:51.479 --> 01:39:53.699
episodes and then in sacrifice of angels.

2258
01:39:53.760 --> 01:39:54.479
They just go to town.

2259
01:39:54.539 --> 01:39:56.340
Yeah, yeah, it's pretty, yeah.

2260
01:39:56.399 --> 01:39:57.300
That's pretty awesome.

2261
01:39:57.359 --> 01:39:59.880
There is something about enticing your audience and not giving

2262
01:39:59.880 --> 01:40:00.840
them everything up from.

2263
01:40:00.899 --> 01:40:01.920
Yeah, I think so too.

2264
01:40:02.640 --> 01:40:06.899
Well, I remember some reviews at the time were people saying they

2265
01:40:06.899 --> 01:40:10.439
really expected to see a battle here and they were a bit gussier.

2266
01:40:10.439 --> 01:40:11.279
They didn't get it.

2267
01:40:11.340 --> 01:40:12.600
No, I think it's better.

2268
01:40:12.659 --> 01:40:16.260
I think it is absolutely better to just have them hanging around

2269
01:40:16.260 --> 01:40:19.739
in the quadrant, you know, like rather than on the other side of

2270
01:40:19.739 --> 01:40:22.380
the wormhole, have the mercy among us.

2271
01:40:22.500 --> 01:40:26.699
Don't you love this bit in a 2nd where she's like, inside a solar

2272
01:40:26.699 --> 01:40:27.060
system?

2273
01:40:27.119 --> 01:40:29.520
Well if we don't, there won't be a solar system left.

2274
01:40:29.579 --> 01:40:31.199
I like that too.

2275
01:40:31.260 --> 01:40:34.680
And it sort of establishes, so we can't do warp in the gravity

2276
01:40:34.680 --> 01:40:38.159
well of a star, you know, we have to use impulse to get out.

2277
01:40:38.220 --> 01:40:40.140
That was always kind of the idea.

2278
01:40:40.140 --> 01:40:44.220
And so let's remind us of that and then how urgent it is and

2279
01:40:44.220 --> 01:40:44.399
stuff.

2280
01:40:44.460 --> 01:40:48.600
And the modifications to the Yukon, yeah, so that was what we saw

2281
01:40:48.600 --> 01:40:49.500
Julian doing.

2282
01:40:49.560 --> 01:40:53.699
That was the 1st thing that we actually saw Evil Julian doing.

2283
01:40:53.760 --> 01:40:54.600
Here we go.

2284
01:40:54.720 --> 01:40:58.380
And then you get this wonderful cartoony shot of the defiant

2285
01:40:58.380 --> 01:41:02.220
dashing into the sun, grabbing the runabout and then flinging it

2286
01:41:02.220 --> 01:41:03.239
off the air.

2287
01:41:03.659 --> 01:41:05.220
So good.

2288
01:41:05.340 --> 01:41:06.539
It's so good.

2289
01:41:06.600 --> 01:41:13.319
I actually think, have they, like, these visuals are much more

2290
01:41:13.319 --> 01:41:14.939
interesting.

2291
01:41:15.000 --> 01:41:15.899
They are cartoony.

2292
01:41:15.960 --> 01:41:17.039
Look how cartoony that is.

2293
01:41:17.100 --> 01:41:20.460
But these visuals are much, much more interesting, I think, than

2294
01:41:20.460 --> 01:41:23.159
they have done in the past with computer stuff.

2295
01:41:23.220 --> 01:41:26.819
Gee whiz, that looks like, that's pretty great.

2296
01:41:26.880 --> 01:41:27.840
That is pretty great.

2297
01:41:27.899 --> 01:41:29.279
Yeah, you're right.

2298
01:41:29.340 --> 01:41:30.659
It is super cartoony though.

2299
01:41:30.840 --> 01:41:33.539
Yeah, maybe, yeah.

2300
01:41:33.600 --> 01:41:36.239
Let's be honest, it is a bit of a cartoon, that plot at this

2301
01:41:36.239 --> 01:41:36.779
point.

2302
01:41:36.840 --> 01:41:37.319
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2303
01:41:37.380 --> 01:41:38.039
That's really fun.

2304
01:41:38.100 --> 01:41:41.340
And it is only, like, it only takes up a very little amount of

2305
01:41:41.340 --> 01:41:45.000
time, but it absolutely has to be. yeah here we go.

2306
01:41:45.060 --> 01:41:47.520
It absolutely has to be there.

2307
01:41:47.579 --> 01:41:48.960
Otherwise, we don't get a win.

2308
01:41:49.020 --> 01:41:52.500
Okay, I did object to this one a little bit with Cisco going.

2309
01:41:52.560 --> 01:41:54.420
Yes, it was all an elaborate trap.

2310
01:41:54.479 --> 01:41:56.159
The signals were fake.

2311
01:41:56.220 --> 01:41:57.479
All right.

2312
01:41:58.380 --> 01:41:59.880
We've been fucking paying attention.

2313
01:41:59.939 --> 01:42:00.479
All right.

2314
01:42:00.539 --> 01:42:01.380
Thanks.

2315
01:42:02.760 --> 01:42:05.460
Without ever firing a shut.

2316
01:42:05.520 --> 01:42:06.659
Whoa.

2317
01:42:06.659 --> 01:42:10.560
Now, look, he gets away with it because he's Avery Brooks and he

2318
01:42:10.560 --> 01:42:11.460
can say anything.

2319
01:42:12.119 --> 01:42:14.279
I'm again, we'll have to wait for another day is pretty cheesy

2320
01:42:14.279 --> 01:42:14.520
too.

2321
01:42:14.640 --> 01:42:18.600
Oh, I like this little payoff, though, where she gives a little

2322
01:42:18.600 --> 01:42:18.899
piss.

2323
01:42:18.960 --> 01:42:21.479
Yes, that is actually nice, isn't it?

2324
01:42:22.260 --> 01:42:28.079
I kind of wished it was, I mean, maybe it's a, uh, yeah.

2325
01:42:28.140 --> 01:42:29.640
It's never romantic, though.

2326
01:42:29.699 --> 01:42:30.720
They never have a relationship.

2327
01:42:30.779 --> 01:42:32.399
Yeah, no, I guess not.

2328
01:42:32.460 --> 01:42:36.600
But it is a little bit too like that, though, I think.

2329
01:42:36.659 --> 01:42:37.979
Well, it's very strange.

2330
01:42:38.100 --> 01:42:42.479
Instead of going down the Bashir Garak route, which is the obvious

2331
01:42:42.479 --> 01:42:46.439
one, is they start going down the O'Brien Bashiro, in episode, in

2332
01:42:46.439 --> 01:42:49.199
series 7, they're always hanging out together in their spare time

2333
01:42:49.199 --> 01:42:53.399
and there's even a scene where Bashir says to O'Brien, look, I

2334
01:42:53.399 --> 01:42:54.000
love mole.

2335
01:42:54.060 --> 01:42:54.479
No, sorry.

2336
01:42:54.539 --> 01:42:58.079
I love Ezri, but I like you a bit more.

2337
01:42:58.140 --> 01:43:01.079
I'm like, what's going on?

2338
01:43:04.439 --> 01:43:06.420
But you're right.

2339
01:43:06.479 --> 01:43:07.380
They're paying off everything here.

2340
01:43:07.439 --> 01:43:10.439
So you've got, Brian, making a joke that he's been hanging out

2341
01:43:10.439 --> 01:43:11.159
with a changeling.

2342
01:43:11.220 --> 01:43:14.220
You've got Dax and Worf having a snog because they're back

2343
01:43:14.220 --> 01:43:14.699
together again.

2344
01:43:14.939 --> 01:43:17.880
The mention of the opera collection as well.

2345
01:43:18.960 --> 01:43:21.960
Does he say, are they intact or something?

2346
01:43:22.020 --> 01:43:23.520
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2347
01:43:23.579 --> 01:43:23.939
All of that.

2348
01:43:24.000 --> 01:43:26.880
She says, oh, very nearly, I think, is her response.

2349
01:43:26.939 --> 01:43:31.140
And then here, we're giving Martok a job on the station so that he

2350
01:43:31.140 --> 01:43:34.079
can be here from week to week, which is why we brought him back.

2351
01:43:34.319 --> 01:43:37.920
Well, remember that wonderful subplot we had in Blaze of Glory

2352
01:43:37.920 --> 01:43:41.100
where he was causing, he was being a lout on the promenade and

2353
01:43:41.100 --> 01:43:42.539
Norg had to try and arrest him.

2354
01:43:42.600 --> 01:43:43.739
Yeah, that's right.

2355
01:43:43.859 --> 01:43:47.579
Ira Bear actually does say, look, we love the character.

2356
01:43:47.640 --> 01:43:48.539
We love the actor.

2357
01:43:48.600 --> 01:43:50.760
We didn't know what we were going to do with him at this point.

2358
01:43:50.819 --> 01:43:51.720
No, we're just bringing back.

2359
01:43:51.779 --> 01:43:53.279
You see what happens, you know?

2360
01:43:53.340 --> 01:43:54.479
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

2361
01:43:54.539 --> 01:43:56.819
And it works a dream, doesn't it?

2362
01:43:56.880 --> 01:43:57.180
Yeah.

2363
01:43:57.239 --> 01:44:01.020
No, and that's the sort of clever thing that they absolutely get

2364
01:44:01.020 --> 01:44:01.260
right.

2365
01:44:01.319 --> 01:44:02.100
Oh, here we go.

2366
01:44:02.699 --> 01:44:05.819
Well, Captain, I want to congratulate you.

2367
01:44:06.539 --> 01:44:09.000
You saw through our scheme.

2368
01:44:09.060 --> 01:44:13.020
So he must know about it by now and maybe he knew about it all

2369
01:44:13.020 --> 01:44:15.239
along, but I don't think.

2370
01:44:15.300 --> 01:44:21.720
Yeah, yeah, I don't think that, um, yes, in fact, for the decision

2371
01:44:21.720 --> 01:44:27.180
to let the, them explode the planet with the, explode the solar

2372
01:44:27.180 --> 01:44:28.619
system with the, there.

2373
01:44:28.739 --> 01:44:30.239
Do you know what I mean?

2374
01:44:30.300 --> 01:44:33.600
Like he, that's just a very clear statement that he must have

2375
01:44:33.600 --> 01:44:36.659
known about it. you know, and he doesn't care because she's

2376
01:44:36.659 --> 01:44:37.619
decided against him.

2377
01:44:37.739 --> 01:44:40.680
But initially, of course, he would want to get his daughter away

2378
01:44:40.680 --> 01:44:41.039
from that.

2379
01:44:41.100 --> 01:44:41.880
So that makes that.

2380
01:44:41.939 --> 01:44:43.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2381
01:44:43.260 --> 01:44:47.039
But once she rejects him for Garak, you know, whatever, I think.

2382
01:44:47.520 --> 01:44:50.340
I mean, it takes her death, doesn't it?

2383
01:44:50.399 --> 01:44:52.739
until they're reconciled or not?

2384
01:44:53.520 --> 01:44:57.779
Not reconciled, but until he starts feeling bad about her again

2385
01:44:57.779 --> 01:44:59.100
until he starts feeling.

2386
01:44:59.159 --> 01:45:03.359
Actually, no, it's when she comes back to the station and he just

2387
01:45:03.359 --> 01:45:05.039
goes, oh, well, you're my daughter, you know.

2388
01:45:05.100 --> 01:45:08.100
At this point, he's in a position of massive power.

2389
01:45:08.159 --> 01:45:10.439
You're going to force be a little bit magnanimous, you know?

2390
01:45:10.800 --> 01:45:12.779
Oh, I love that hour.

2391
01:45:12.840 --> 01:45:17.279
He goes, you know, you may have escaped defeat this day, but

2392
01:45:17.279 --> 01:45:20.159
tomorrow, we will see about tomorrow.

2393
01:45:20.220 --> 01:45:21.000
Yeah.

2394
01:45:21.000 --> 01:45:27.659
I think that's like a pretty amazing thing as well for a mid

2395
01:45:26.760 --> 01:45:28.739
season 2 partner.

2396
01:45:28.800 --> 01:45:34.380
Like, I know that this show has big event to, you know, 2 parters

2397
01:45:34.380 --> 01:45:36.060
in the middle of a season.

2398
01:45:36.119 --> 01:45:42.539
But something as big a deal as this, like that changes the premise

2399
01:45:42.539 --> 01:45:45.960
and changes the, you know, the status quo.

2400
01:45:46.020 --> 01:45:48.420
Like I think that's pretty, that is pretty incredible.

2401
01:45:48.479 --> 01:45:51.899
And I think the great thing that gives them the chance to do is

2402
01:45:51.899 --> 01:45:55.260
just to see, you know, check in on everyone and how they've been

2403
01:45:55.260 --> 01:45:59.699
going after the last few episodes, you know, and what's been

2404
01:45:59.699 --> 01:46:00.060
happening.

2405
01:46:00.119 --> 01:46:03.539
It's that soapy kind of instinct that they have.

2406
01:46:04.199 --> 01:46:08.760
Well, I really love about this is they've learned almost from

2407
01:46:08.760 --> 01:46:12.300
TNG's mistakes because there was a couple of episodes of TNG that

2408
01:46:12.300 --> 01:46:16.199
ended on cliffhangers like this. you know, um, do you remember the

2409
01:46:16.199 --> 01:46:18.300
thing sending the signal out into space?

2410
01:46:18.359 --> 01:46:21.300
the parasites are trying to take over Starfleet.

2411
01:46:21.359 --> 01:46:23.819
And there was a promise that they would come and well, we never

2412
01:46:23.819 --> 01:46:24.420
saw them again.

2413
01:46:24.479 --> 01:46:27.300
Or even at the end of the one, we watched the wounded, where

2414
01:46:27.300 --> 01:46:29.819
Picard's basically saying, you know, we're on the brink of war

2415
01:46:29.819 --> 01:46:33.420
with the Cardassians, you know, what's going to happen next and

2416
01:46:33.420 --> 01:46:34.979
nothing came of that.

2417
01:46:35.039 --> 01:46:36.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2418
01:46:36.899 --> 01:46:40.020
I mean, yeah, were they self-consciously setting something up, they

2419
01:46:40.020 --> 01:46:40.500
weren't.

2420
01:46:40.560 --> 01:46:43.140
It's just that someone saw that it was a hanging thread and

2421
01:46:43.140 --> 01:46:46.380
thought, let's retool those we can make the Cardassians work.

2422
01:46:46.439 --> 01:46:47.399
Yeah.

2423
01:46:47.460 --> 01:46:51.060
But I do like a show that does promise and then delivers.

2424
01:46:51.119 --> 01:46:52.140
Delivers, you know?

2425
01:46:52.199 --> 01:46:52.560
Yeah.

2426
01:46:52.560 --> 01:46:55.199
And they didn't just deliver.

2427
01:46:55.260 --> 01:46:59.640
They delivered in a way where they singlehandedly changed how you

2428
01:46:59.640 --> 01:47:00.960
can make Star Trek.

2429
01:47:01.020 --> 01:47:02.819
Yeah, absolutely.

2430
01:47:03.180 --> 01:47:07.920
And let's be honest, that's how they do it now. long form marks

2431
01:47:07.979 --> 01:47:12.060
you know, big galactic space battles.

2432
01:47:12.119 --> 01:47:12.720
Yeah.

2433
01:47:12.779 --> 01:47:15.600
Not in all of the shows, like not in all of the shows, but

2434
01:47:15.600 --> 01:47:18.300
definitely in Discovery, which was, you know, the original

2435
01:47:18.300 --> 01:47:19.260
flagship.

2436
01:47:19.319 --> 01:47:23.880
They brought back something that told long arc stories in a war

2437
01:47:23.880 --> 01:47:24.600
context.

2438
01:47:24.659 --> 01:47:30.180
Like they might not explicitly reference Deep Space 9 as much as

2439
01:47:30.180 --> 01:47:35.760
we might like, but they certainly learnt some lessons from it when

2440
01:47:35.760 --> 01:47:36.899
they restarted the show.

2441
01:47:37.319 --> 01:47:43.739
The only other thing I want to say is, I think, for me, these 2

2442
01:47:43.739 --> 01:47:48.899
VHS tapes, for the uniform, in purgatory shadow, buying the photos

2443
01:47:48.899 --> 01:47:53.699
lie, and Dr. Bashir, I presume, Back when I was watching it back

2444
01:47:53.699 --> 01:47:54.960
then, I'm not sure about now.

2445
01:47:55.020 --> 01:47:58.260
That was my favourite 4 episode run in the entire run.

2446
01:47:58.319 --> 01:48:01.859
That's 4 golden episodes back to back.

2447
01:48:01.920 --> 01:48:04.920
They were really really knocking it out of the park at this

2448
01:48:04.920 --> 01:48:05.159
point.

2449
01:48:11.579 --> 01:48:16.319
All right, it's the end of the episode and it is time for us to

2450
01:48:16.319 --> 01:48:20.760
decide what we are going to watch next, and it's my go on the

2451
01:48:20.760 --> 01:48:27.420
randomiser, and I am going to choose a Kurtzman Trek episode, and

2452
01:48:27.420 --> 01:48:29.220
I have selected all of the series.

2453
01:48:29.399 --> 01:48:31.800
I think it's long past time.

2454
01:48:31.859 --> 01:48:33.779
We dip back into Kersman Trek.

2455
01:48:33.840 --> 01:48:38.100
And can I say after doing in Purgatory Shadow and buy Inferno's

2456
01:48:38.100 --> 01:48:38.399
light?

2457
01:48:38.460 --> 01:48:41.579
Thank you very much for saying we should do this one after I

2458
01:48:41.579 --> 01:48:42.600
pressed the button last time.

2459
01:48:42.659 --> 01:48:45.239
I have now been reminded why I like Star Trek again.

2460
01:48:45.539 --> 01:48:47.039
Let's go.

2461
01:48:47.100 --> 01:48:48.779
Let's see what we can do about that.

2462
01:48:48.840 --> 01:48:49.380
All right.

2463
01:48:49.439 --> 01:48:50.579
I'm gonna press the button.

2464
01:48:51.239 --> 01:48:53.640
Unification three.

2465
01:48:53.699 --> 01:48:58.500
So your random Star Trek discovery episode, this is season three

2466
01:48:58.500 --> 01:49:01.739
episode seven, and it's in the future.

2467
01:49:01.800 --> 01:49:06.720
We have Navarre instead of Vulcan, and we have the return of

2468
01:49:06.720 --> 01:49:10.920
Michael's mother as well as a Romulan Truth nun.

2469
01:49:10.979 --> 01:49:12.420
Oh, no.

2470
01:49:12.420 --> 01:49:16.319
Plenty of opportunities for Michael Burnham to stare off camera

2471
01:49:16.319 --> 01:49:17.460
but tears in her eyes.

2472
01:49:17.520 --> 01:49:21.899
In fact, it actually ends up being, I think, deliberately nowhere

2473
01:49:21.899 --> 01:49:25.979
near as overwrought as it had been in series 2. there's one

2474
01:49:25.979 --> 01:49:30.420
ludicrously hot Vulcan in it, but I am going to press the button

2475
01:49:30.420 --> 01:49:30.720
again.

2476
01:49:30.779 --> 01:49:32.100
Oh, okay.

2477
01:49:32.159 --> 01:49:33.779
Although I do love that series free.

2478
01:49:33.840 --> 01:49:35.399
I can't wait till we get back to it.

2479
01:49:35.520 --> 01:49:38.699
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is it is pretty fun.

2480
01:49:38.760 --> 01:49:45.000
So this is Picard season 2, episode 4 Watcher.

2481
01:49:45.060 --> 01:49:46.560
I say again.

2482
01:49:46.619 --> 01:49:47.819
Yeah, okay.

2483
01:49:47.880 --> 01:49:52.920
Okay, so this is Star Trek Lower Decks, the least dangerous game

2484
01:49:52.920 --> 01:49:56.100
which we covered episode 60.

2485
01:49:56.279 --> 01:49:59.460
It's the most recent Kurtzman Trek episode we've done.

2486
01:49:59.520 --> 01:50:02.279
Basically, Nathan, if you were going to say any lower decks

2487
01:50:02.279 --> 01:50:04.140
episode, I was going to say, yeah, we're doing it.

2488
01:50:04.199 --> 01:50:05.760
How about this then?

2489
01:50:05.819 --> 01:50:10.199
Your random Star Trek Lower Decks episode is Envoys, series one

2490
01:50:10.199 --> 01:50:11.159
episode two.

2491
01:50:11.220 --> 01:50:14.460
So the 2nd episode of Lower Decks.

2492
01:50:14.520 --> 01:50:15.000
Which one's that?

2493
01:50:15.060 --> 01:50:16.380
I can't remember.

2494
01:50:16.439 --> 01:50:18.420
I don't remember either.

2495
01:50:18.479 --> 01:50:19.680
I think we just do it.

2496
01:50:19.739 --> 01:50:20.640
What do you think?

2497
01:50:20.699 --> 01:50:21.239
They're all great.

2498
01:50:21.420 --> 01:50:25.140
You know, sometimes when we go in blind, we get wharf in the

2499
01:50:25.140 --> 01:50:25.380
fold.

2500
01:50:25.500 --> 01:50:29.039
Other times we go in blind, we know we're going to get something

2501
01:50:29.039 --> 01:50:30.899
at least that's possible television.

2502
01:50:30.960 --> 01:50:36.300
Yeah, although I have to say the last Kurtzman trick we did was a

2503
01:50:36.300 --> 01:50:37.020
lower deck.

2504
01:50:37.140 --> 01:50:39.659
Oh, okay, press it again.

2505
01:50:39.720 --> 01:50:40.020
Okay.

2506
01:50:40.079 --> 01:50:43.260
Oh my god, this could be anything.

2507
01:50:43.319 --> 01:50:47.220
Your random Star Trek Lower Dex episode is terminal provocation

2508
01:50:47.220 --> 01:50:48.960
season one, episode six.

2509
01:50:49.079 --> 01:50:50.220
I don't know what that is either.

2510
01:50:50.279 --> 01:50:51.359
I'm going to press it again.

2511
01:50:51.420 --> 01:50:51.779
Once again.

2512
01:50:52.500 --> 01:50:54.060
Ooh.

2513
01:50:54.119 --> 01:50:55.140
Okay.

2514
01:50:55.199 --> 01:50:58.920
Your random Star Trek Discovery episode is coming home.

2515
01:50:58.979 --> 01:51:01.680
Season four, episode 13.

2516
01:51:01.920 --> 01:51:06.600
So the final episode of season four.

2517
01:51:06.720 --> 01:51:09.899
Will this make me watching season 4 completely move?

2518
01:51:10.020 --> 01:51:11.699
Wow.

2519
01:51:11.760 --> 01:51:13.140
Have you watched it?

2520
01:51:13.199 --> 01:51:14.520
No, you didn't get round to watching it.

2521
01:51:14.579 --> 01:51:17.039
I certainly can't watch it all in a week.

2522
01:51:17.100 --> 01:51:18.119
No, okay.

2523
01:51:18.180 --> 01:51:19.319
Let's try again.

2524
01:51:19.739 --> 01:51:21.659
I'm so sorry.

2525
01:51:22.859 --> 01:51:29.340
Your random Star Trek Discovery episode is Terra Farma part two.

2526
01:51:29.399 --> 01:51:34.199
That would mean doing terra firma part one as well. which I think

2527
01:51:34.199 --> 01:51:37.920
unusually for discovery is the previous episode, and it's

2528
01:51:37.920 --> 01:51:41.520
terrafoma part one and part 2, and it's, you know, towards the end

2529
01:51:41.520 --> 01:51:46.619
of series 3, which we did actually touch on at some point. one

2530
01:51:46.619 --> 01:51:46.979
more time.

2531
01:51:47.880 --> 01:51:55.380
Okay, your random Star Trek Picard episode is, it's not from

2532
01:51:55.380 --> 01:51:56.340
series 3.

2533
01:51:56.579 --> 01:52:00.479
It's season two, episode 10.

2534
01:52:00.960 --> 01:52:02.340
Farewell.

2535
01:52:02.399 --> 01:52:06.359
So it's the finale of series 2.

2536
01:52:06.779 --> 01:52:10.260
Let's do it Yeah, I think that's right.

2537
01:52:10.319 --> 01:52:11.819
I think it's the finale of series 2.

2538
01:52:11.939 --> 01:52:13.680
Anyway, we'll get us to talk about series 2.

2539
01:52:13.920 --> 01:52:16.979
So season two, episode 10, farewell.

2540
01:52:17.039 --> 01:52:23.640
Oh, I've only seen the 1st 2 or 3 episodes of season two, and I've

2541
01:52:23.640 --> 01:52:25.800
heard mixed reviews of the season as a whole.

2542
01:52:25.859 --> 01:52:29.520
But I know some pretty big stuff happens in that last episode.

2543
01:52:29.579 --> 01:52:33.119
So I certainly think we'll have a lot of talking points.

2544
01:52:33.180 --> 01:52:35.039
Yeah, yeah. think we will.

2545
01:52:35.100 --> 01:52:38.760
Is this when we say goodbye to Rios and Agnes and all of that?

2546
01:52:38.819 --> 01:52:40.680
Oh, man, what were they thinking?

2547
01:52:41.100 --> 01:52:45.119
To bring back in Marina Surtis and Gates McFadden.

2548
01:52:45.180 --> 01:52:46.020
What were they doing?

2549
01:52:46.079 --> 01:52:46.979
No.

2550
01:52:46.979 --> 01:52:51.600
We all loved Picard series three.

2551
01:52:51.659 --> 01:52:55.079
It was a great television event and we will be covering it at some

2552
01:52:55.079 --> 01:52:55.319
point.

2553
01:52:55.380 --> 01:52:59.399
But until then, it's season 2 episode 10.

2554
01:52:59.640 --> 01:53:00.479
Let's do it.

2555
01:53:07.920 --> 01:53:11.699
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

2556
01:53:11.699 --> 01:53:13.020
and Nathan Bottomley.

2557
01:53:13.079 --> 01:53:16.319
We're online at untitled Star Trek Project.com, where you can find

2558
01:53:16.319 --> 01:53:19.680
links to our Twitter, mastered on Facebook and YouTube channel.

2559
01:53:19.739 --> 01:53:23.399
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was

2560
01:53:23.399 --> 01:53:25.020
composed by Cameron Lamb.

2561
01:53:25.140 --> 01:53:29.460
This episode was recorded on the 23rd of May 2023 and released on

2562
01:53:29.460 --> 01:53:30.239
the 2nd of June.

2563
01:53:30.300 --> 01:53:33.359
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Picard.

2564
01:53:33.420 --> 01:53:34.020
Farewell.

2565
01:53:53.579 --> 01:53:55.079
Good choice.

2566
01:53:55.079 --> 01:53:55.979
Yeah, that's a good choice.

2567
01:53:59.039 --> 01:54:00.180
Well, because we did assimilation.

2568
01:54:00.239 --> 01:54:00.899
Do you remember that?

2569
01:54:00.899 --> 01:54:04.199
or whatever it was, the one the shit I stole from the Borg Queen

2570
01:54:04.199 --> 01:54:06.180
dot text.

2571
01:54:06.239 --> 01:54:09.779
Which was good, but it was very much like a...

2572
01:54:09.779 --> 01:54:10.680
Just a bit of us.

2573
01:54:10.680 --> 01:54:12.960
A to B sort of episode.

2574
01:54:13.020 --> 01:54:14.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2575
01:54:14.399 --> 01:54:14.699
Yeah.

2576
01:54:15.420 --> 01:54:19.800
What we should do is season 2, episode two. one was amazing.

2577
01:54:19.859 --> 01:54:21.539
Yeah, wasn't it good?

2578
01:54:21.600 --> 01:54:22.680
So good.

2579
01:54:22.979 --> 01:54:26.340
I could have spent a bit more time in that eagle universe.

2580
01:54:26.460 --> 01:54:27.359
The Confederate.

2581
01:54:27.420 --> 01:54:30.899
Yeah, they're a little bit too much like the mirror universe, I

2582
01:54:30.899 --> 01:54:33.060
think, but that's kind of the point.

2583
01:54:33.119 --> 01:54:37.680
The point, you know, the point of the mirror universe in, um

2584
01:54:37.680 --> 01:54:44.039
Discovery season one was that it's kind of fascist, you know, like

2585
01:54:44.039 --> 01:54:48.300
America's kind of weird fascist tendencies kind of brought to the

2586
01:54:48.300 --> 01:54:49.920
four, you know.

2587
01:54:49.979 --> 01:54:51.779
Sort of the Trump period.

2588
01:54:51.840 --> 01:54:53.939
Yeah, well, I think that's absolutely it.

2589
01:54:54.000 --> 01:54:57.720
We get, you know, um, what's his name, Lorke saying, make the

2590
01:54:57.720 --> 01:55:02.640
galaxy great again, and, you know, they've got a power source

2591
01:55:02.640 --> 01:55:06.539
that's going to sort of end all life everywhere, which is kind of

2592
01:55:06.539 --> 01:55:08.520
what we're doing with fossil fuel and stuff.

2593
01:55:08.520 --> 01:55:10.319
Like it is, you know, it is that.

2594
01:55:10.380 --> 01:55:12.600
You do terrible things for that tardigrade.

2595
01:55:12.659 --> 01:55:13.800
No, no, no, that's fake news.

2596
01:55:13.859 --> 01:55:14.460
Yeah, yeah.

2597
01:55:14.460 --> 01:55:18.899
No, I, you know, like I genuinely think that's what, that's what's

2598
01:55:18.899 --> 01:55:22.619
happening in series one and we start with, you know, like post 911

2599
01:55:22.619 --> 01:55:26.939
kind of war thing where we kind of start to abandon our

2600
01:55:26.939 --> 01:55:27.659
principles.

2601
01:55:27.720 --> 01:55:32.039
Um, and then we just go into sort of weird arse, hallucinate

2602
01:55:32.039 --> 01:55:36.960
hallucinatory kind of mirror universe kind of staff with the Trump

2603
01:55:36.960 --> 01:55:37.560
here, I think.

2604
01:55:37.619 --> 01:55:39.840
Michelle, yo being fabulous.

2605
01:55:39.899 --> 01:55:40.800
So good.

2606
01:55:40.859 --> 01:55:42.000
Cousin Michelle.

2607
01:55:42.479 --> 01:55:45.119
I'm strangely so much more...

2608
01:55:45.119 --> 01:55:47.279
I'm not think, I'm saying on.

2609
01:55:47.939 --> 01:55:51.600
This could be the tag. you're eating during the tag.

2610
01:55:51.659 --> 01:55:54.539
Sorry, this pear has lasted me the whole episode.

2611
01:55:54.600 --> 01:55:56.220
I've been sort of nibbling it for a while.

2612
01:55:56.279 --> 01:55:59.039
But very quietly, so it doesn't appear on the mic, you know?

2613
01:55:59.100 --> 01:55:59.579
Yeah, okay.

2614
01:55:59.640 --> 01:56:05.159
Um, So I'm going to say, oh, yeah, I'm much more on board with

2615
01:56:05.159 --> 01:56:07.979
watching Kurtzman Trope these days and I think Strange New World

2616
01:56:07.979 --> 01:56:10.560
turn the tide because we're Strange New World.

2617
01:56:10.680 --> 01:56:13.680
I got 3 Kurtzman Trek shows that I really like now.

2618
01:56:13.800 --> 01:56:17.460
Lower Decks, Prodigy and Strangely Wells.

2619
01:56:17.520 --> 01:56:20.939
And then I've got two, which I think are massively flawed, but

2620
01:56:20.939 --> 01:56:22.260
interesting to talk about.

2621
01:56:22.859 --> 01:56:26.220
So I think series 3 of Picard was magnificent.

2622
01:56:26.279 --> 01:56:28.380
I thought it was absolutely everything it should have been.

2623
01:56:28.500 --> 01:56:32.880
It was like the film, the good film that that crew never got. you

2624
01:56:32.880 --> 01:56:33.180
know.

2625
01:56:33.239 --> 01:56:33.899
So.

2626
01:56:34.260 --> 01:56:36.300
But it did play it safe.

2627
01:56:36.359 --> 01:56:38.279
Yeah, 0 yeah, yeah.

2628
01:56:38.340 --> 01:56:41.100
But they are allowed to after 2 seasons of not doing that.

2629
01:56:41.159 --> 01:56:43.979
It's just kind of like, oh, fuck it, we've got everyone and we

2630
01:56:43.979 --> 01:56:47.760
will go to just the most absurd lengths to get them all back doing

2631
01:56:47.760 --> 01:56:48.539
their thing.

2632
01:56:48.600 --> 01:56:51.239
You know, we'll have to go to...

2633
01:56:51.300 --> 01:56:52.560
On the bridge of the Enterprise?

2634
01:56:52.619 --> 01:56:53.279
Yeah, yeah.

2635
01:56:53.340 --> 01:56:53.760
All of that.

2636
01:56:53.819 --> 01:56:56.399
It's just like, okay, oh, fuck, they're doing the Enterprise D

2637
01:56:56.460 --> 01:56:59.939
That's so tremendous. like, yep, whatever. don't care.

2638
01:57:00.000 --> 01:57:02.039
Obviously, because it's all nostalgia.

2639
01:57:02.100 --> 01:57:04.859
But I was like, wow, so the big climax that we were leading to was

2640
01:57:04.859 --> 01:57:08.399
precisely where we were in 1990 every week.

2641
01:57:09.119 --> 01:57:10.739
So good.

2642
01:57:11.279 --> 01:57:13.380
Which, you know what?

2643
01:57:13.439 --> 01:57:16.140
I think that says a lot about Next Generation and Picard.

2644
01:57:16.739 --> 01:57:22.680
It wasn't it wasn't going anywhere bold or experimental or new.

2645
01:57:22.739 --> 01:57:26.579
No, we are just going to lean into the past and do it very well.

2646
01:57:26.640 --> 01:57:30.300
I acknowledge, you know, in a way that was very satisfying for

2647
01:57:30.300 --> 01:57:30.479
people.

2648
01:57:30.539 --> 01:57:36.659
Yeah, I mean, I think that 1st season tried to do things and

2649
01:57:36.659 --> 01:57:39.720
failed in all sorts of ways that were kind of interesting.

2650
01:57:39.779 --> 01:57:43.979
I think the 2nd season has a real proper through line and the most

2651
01:57:43.979 --> 01:57:49.500
brilliant thing about it is having ice, the villains, like having

2652
01:57:49.500 --> 01:57:54.239
you know, like the American state is the villain and you get all

2653
01:57:54.239 --> 01:57:57.840
this sort of racism against Rios and stuff is pretty amazingly

2654
01:57:57.840 --> 01:58:01.020
interesting, you know, so hot.

2655
01:58:01.079 --> 01:58:04.260
That's really why I wanted to watch it.

2656
01:58:04.319 --> 01:58:07.260
I mean, I could never fully get on board with series 3, just

2657
01:58:07.260 --> 01:58:08.220
because they wrote out.

2658
01:58:08.220 --> 01:58:09.479
Because he was incredibly hot, man.

2659
01:58:10.739 --> 01:58:13.199
But then I loved Agnes as well. she was a great character.

2660
01:58:13.260 --> 01:58:14.819
So good, so brilliant.

2661
01:58:14.819 --> 01:58:15.600
I'm not like Rafi.

2662
01:58:15.659 --> 01:58:18.359
In fact, I think they assembled a really good cast of characters.

2663
01:58:18.420 --> 01:58:19.380
Yeah, yeah.

2664
01:58:19.439 --> 01:58:23.399
I'm glad that we got Raffi and 7 at the end, though, of Picard.

2665
01:58:23.460 --> 01:58:24.119
That was pretty good.

2666
01:58:24.180 --> 01:58:26.939
They're pretty awesome Yeah.

2667
01:58:27.000 --> 01:58:28.619
All right.

2668
01:58:29.039 --> 01:58:30.840
947.

2669
01:58:31.020 --> 01:58:32.340
Okay.

2670
01:58:32.399 --> 01:58:33.840
I should probably go to bed.

2671
01:58:33.899 --> 01:58:35.100
You should have a nap.

2672
01:58:35.279 --> 01:58:36.899
That was fun.

2673
01:58:36.960 --> 01:58:37.800
That was fun.

2674
01:58:37.859 --> 01:58:39.239
Oh, very fun.

2675
01:58:39.479 --> 01:58:40.199
I enjoyed that.

2676
01:58:40.260 --> 01:58:40.619
Yeah.

2677
01:58:40.680 --> 01:58:44.880
I kind of knew I would, because this is my passion, but, yeah.

2678
01:58:44.939 --> 01:58:48.119
Well, send me the thing and I will...