WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 21:37:51

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Hi, Joe. Hi.

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So it is a bit of an important episode, this one.

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It's the turning point.

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It's kind of like the fulcrum around which Voyager turns.

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It's Scorpion and Scorpion part two.

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So the series 3 finale and the series 4 Opener and the

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introduction of 7 of 9.

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I have been perusing memory alpha, such as my want.

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And some episodes, you, there's, there's scraps, there's

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breadcrumbs, you know, there's nothing to, half the enterprise

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output.

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There's nothing at all on there.

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Scorpion part one and two It's like someone's dissertation of

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quotes.

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I mean, there's a lot on there.

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And the general consensus seems to be amongst the Voyager

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production team.

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That's the actors and the people making it, that this is Peak

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Voyager.

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This was where they started to get in some positive attention

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because there was a rating spike for Scorpion, both the finale and

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the opener, um, in a way where they were sort of like slowly

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leaking viewers, suddenly they took a big upturn for this.

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Unfortunately, after this, they started leaking viewers again.

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But no, no, the general feeling is that this was a positive time

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and heading into season 4 and the introduction of 7 of nine.

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This is where Voyager kind of took off.

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Yeah, and I think that's kind of fair.

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We've kind of seen what I hope isn't the end of 7 of 9 story in

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Picard series 3 over the last few weeks.

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And she just continues to be superb, like she is a great

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character.

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And we don't quite get to see that yet, I think, in Scorpion part

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two.

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Oh definitely not.

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And there's some quotes from Jerry Ryan, who basically didn't have

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a fucking clue what she was doing.

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I was getting very little direction from anybody.

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She was getting up at 4 AM in the morning and, you know, squeezed

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into that ridiculous prosthetic suit.

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Jeez, you know, she's been doing soaps and things like this, but

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she ain't, she's never been in a costume like this before.

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She's suddenly on this stage at, you know, 5 AM going, right, what

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am I supposed to do?

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Act like a robot.

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She'd watch Rise, that was really all she knew about Star Trek.

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Do you know what's really funny was?

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she thought as the Borg, because the drones don't talk, that she

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wasn't going to get any dialogue in the 1st episode, and then the

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script came in, and there's a quote from her saying, I got on the

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phone to Rick Berman and said, what's this?

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I've literally, I've got all the dialogue in the episode. the hell

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do I do this?

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And I think you can see that in Scorpion 2 that, you know, she's

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sort of going for that Ice Maiden approach.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, she's not quite there yet.

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And where she lands is actually really pretty incredible and it

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doesn't take her too long to actually find what she's going to

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do.

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But this is very strange to watch in retrospect.

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And of course, in the decades that have passed since Voyager

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finished, in the year, you know, what is it, 2401 or something.

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She is a lot more relaxed and a lot more human.

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While retaining, I think her kind of underlying affect, which is

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just so much fun.

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She is like, she is really good, but we won't get to see that

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yet.

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But I think, you know, this is their attempt to do best of both

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worlds, isn't it?

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They're at the same point.

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And the Delta quadrant is where the Borg came from.

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So we were always kind of expecting it to happen.

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Initially, well, I was reading initially Unity, which is the

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Shakotay episode in series 3, where he meets members of the ball

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collective that still have implants, but are no longer part of the

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collective.

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That was going to be the only Borg episode in Voyager.

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That's what they were planning.

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And the original season 3 climax was the year of hell.

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So it's going to be a two-parter and it was going to be the 2 year

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of Hell episodes.

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However, because they knew there was going to be some cast changes

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that couldn't happen.

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So that was shunted off into series 4 and they suddenly had to

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come up with something for the end of three.

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Now post, 1st contact, where the queen is killed, Braga suddenly

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had this bright idea of like, okay, well then why don't we show

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what's going on with the Borg post, 1st contact.

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Yeah.

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And let's really go to town and do ball cities and, you know, and

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borgify up Voyager in a massive way.

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And they didn't really go down that approach because he had an

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idea in his head.

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This shows you how Brandon Braggle riots as well.

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He had no idea of a premise or an idea or anything.

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He's like, I've got this image in my mind of like a Borg graveyard

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which I think we see in one of these two, don't we?

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He goes, I've got the image and let's just go from there.

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Yeah, and I said, I'm like, okay, let's get this down on paper.

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Let's have a proper idea that we're going to work with.

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But I do think this is the 1st time, I seriously feel like Voyage

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is in a lot of trouble in the Delta Quadrant.

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Yeah.

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And it feels like an unsolvable problem, certainly in the 1st

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episode, and I really like that because we've had 3 years of TNG

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knockoffs at this point.

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And I remember watching this the 1st time and going, okay, this is

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interesting.

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Are they going to run with this?

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And then I watch Scorpion 2 and I'm like, oh, they are going to

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run with this.

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And then I watched the gift and I was like, oh, no, they're not.

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No, they're not.

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And we're back to TNG knockoffs for the rest of the series four

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with the inclusion of 7 of nine.

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I think there is something commendable about the scale and the

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weirdness of this. because we have had kind of the obvious thing

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which is the Borg are going to attack Earth.

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And there's a sense in which that was on the table from Q-Hoo

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onwards.

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Like, I think Q-Hoo ends with them reiterating the fact that the

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Borg are on their way.

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And so we were kind of heading towards that.

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Here, we can't do the Borg attack Earth because it's Voyager.

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But instead we reach Borg Space, and I think there are some really

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great, weird visuals here, and I don't think they all come off, and

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I think some of them are very cheap and don't quite work, but

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there is a very un 90s trek attempt to look weird and strange.

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And I think the computer animation at the cliffhanger is

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fantastic.

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It's really great.

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I think maybe we think that now.

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I think when this came out, this looked amazing.

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And I think, I think a lot of people thought this looked amazing

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at the time.

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And I know there was one person who definitely was watching this

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and was so inspired by watching Scorpion.

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That's in memory alpha two.

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That's Brian Fuller, who created Discovery, that he was like, I

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want to work on this show.

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This is, you know, this is as big as TV is right now.

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This is as good as TV looks right now.

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I want to work on this to the point where, you know, he was such a

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Star Trek fan.

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He went off and created his own intriguing arm of Star Trek.

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Yeah, yeah, which is gone completely...

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He went visuals first, didn't he?

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Like he made sure Discovery looked incredible.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And well, look, I think even sort of Braga's, you know, if Braga's

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writing process or creative process is this set piece or this

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image, that's a perfectly legitimate way for a writer to work.

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And I think in Star Trek, it's particularly good.

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I think Star Trek's suited to that because I think Star Trek is

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about weird images.

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And I think this actually delivers on that.

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I will have criticisms of some of the sets, and there's one or 2

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sets. in this 1st episode that I think just don't work at all.

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I just I just really felt this was Voyager pulling its socks up

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and saying, you know, like everyone thinks we're a bit of a joke

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because I think at this point nobody was really taking this show

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very seriously.

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And then suddenly we're seeing the Borg presented in a way they

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never could have done invest of both worlds.

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No, you know.

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And come the end of the series when we have got enormous bulk

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cities and things like this in endgame and things like that.

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You know, they take it to mutually really impressive places.

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Yeah, yeah, I agree.

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Nathan, before we jump into Scorpion part one, I've got a few

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treats to share with you.

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Have you cooked me something from Neelix's cookbook?

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No, yeah, no.

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Okay.

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I've got the ingredients for marina sodas, eggplant salad.

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Don't worry.

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You could need it anyway. you're on the other side of the world

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have to post it to me.

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No, no, no.

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So here in Eastbourne, where this fabulous 4 story bookshop

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right?

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Did I ever take you in there when you came here?

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No, but you have told me about it.

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Yeah.

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Oh my god, it's amazing, like a treasure trove of books.

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And they've got a huge science fiction section and I found the

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mother load of Star Trek books the other day.

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Now, there was as many.

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I didn't get as I did.

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I had stuff like Star Trek, the technical manual and things like

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that.

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And as much as I want to...

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Much as I want to know about the ins and outs of the Jeffries

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tubes, you know, I didn't buy that one.

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But I did buy the very 1st volume of Captain's Logs.

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Now, I remember before I showed you, I had the 2nd volume.

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Well, this is sort of the original series version.

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Yeah.

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But this will give us fascinating titbits for future episodes.

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I also picked up Star Trek, the Visual Dictionary.

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Oh, wow.

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Now, this is a really good book because across the thing.

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It sort of covers the different alien races and things like that

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but visually it pulls together all the 90s shows.

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So you see the various depictions of all the races and the planet

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and the technology and things like that.

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But...

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Alice Craig on the front of that?

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It certainly is, yeah.

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Just turned up in Picard, doesn't she?

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Yeah, yeah.

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Best of all, though.

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I've hit the mother load with this book.

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Oh my god.

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So what I have here is Captain Slog, William Shatner's personal

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account of making Star Trek 5, the final front seat.

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So when we come on Star Trek 5.

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I'm going to read this entire book.

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Let that be soon.

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That's going to be hilarious.

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Is it all just Shatner saying how great he was and that it's only

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a shit film because everyone else was terrible.

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It's bound to be that, surely.

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Let's have a little look, surely.

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We watched the film in silence, fully aware. that these problems

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meant the entire sequence of the film was unuseable.

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I mean, I mean, that's the whole fucking film, isn't it?

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Anyway, I promise I will read this at some and regale you with

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Shatner's tales.

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No, I need to hear that.

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That sounds superb.

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I saw that.

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And I said, no, forget all the others.

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I've gotta buy that.

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If only Nemoy had wrote a competing book about his account, if

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they're making a soundtrack file.

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From the point of view of somebody, you know, sensible, rational

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this is just going to be, you know, social egomania, isn't it?

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Yeah Anyways, sorry about that.

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A little diversion there.

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No, that's perfect.

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And I was chatting with a friend of the podcast, Peter, and he

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thinks that Janeway owes more than a little to Shatner for the way

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that she performs as the captain, I think.

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And we'll talk about that as we go in because I think there's

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something to be said for that.

248
00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:21.059
There is a few quotes about, um, Kate Mulgroom's performance from

249
00:12:21.059 --> 00:12:23.159
the production team, which is quite interesting, but I'll sort of

250
00:12:23.159 --> 00:12:25.259
bring them up as we, as we go through this.

251
00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:27.240
I think she's spectacular in this.

252
00:12:27.299 --> 00:12:29.039
Really, really great.

253
00:12:29.100 --> 00:12:32.460
And as you and I have discussed off mic, Basically the only

254
00:12:32.460 --> 00:12:33.480
character in this.

255
00:12:33.539 --> 00:12:34.500
Yeah, yeah.

256
00:12:34.559 --> 00:12:34.980
Yeah.

257
00:12:34.980 --> 00:12:37.139
You know, everybody else is sort of a cypher.

258
00:12:37.139 --> 00:12:39.360
You're doing their jobs.

259
00:12:39.419 --> 00:12:40.080
Yeah that's right.

260
00:12:40.139 --> 00:12:43.259
I think they're trying to give Robert Beltran things to do.

261
00:12:43.320 --> 00:12:44.100
Yeah.

262
00:12:44.159 --> 00:12:45.960
But he's not giving them anything back.

263
00:12:46.019 --> 00:12:50.039
We'll talk more about the medium, Robert, as we go through.

264
00:12:50.100 --> 00:12:51.419
All right.

265
00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:53.460
I'm gonna count us in. you ready to go?

266
00:12:53.820 --> 00:12:55.320
All right.

267
00:12:55.379 --> 00:13:00.480
Let's head into the shortest pre-title sequence ever. 20 seconds

268
00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:01.019
long.

269
00:13:01.620 --> 00:13:03.179
All right.

270
00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:04.139
Okay.

271
00:13:04.200 --> 00:13:05.279
Here goes.

272
00:13:05.340 --> 00:13:09.600
Five, four, three, two, one.

273
00:13:09.659 --> 00:13:11.399
And we're off.

274
00:13:11.460 --> 00:13:13.919
That's a mission statement though.

275
00:13:13.980 --> 00:13:17.759
These 2 Borgs coming along, these ball cubes being destroyed

276
00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:18.480
immediately.

277
00:13:18.539 --> 00:13:20.700
I mean, it does say what the episode's about.

278
00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:22.259
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

279
00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:24.960
It's really good and it's a great mystery as well.

280
00:13:25.019 --> 00:13:28.500
And I think we left hanging for a little bit.

281
00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:30.960
So and it's a spectacular explosion.

282
00:13:31.019 --> 00:13:32.639
I think that's a really good looking sequence.

283
00:13:32.700 --> 00:13:36.899
You might think that's CGI, but actually, I was reading because

284
00:13:36.899 --> 00:13:39.899
special effects sequence on memory alpha is enormous in this

285
00:13:39.899 --> 00:13:40.320
episode.

286
00:13:40.379 --> 00:13:43.620
And that is they actually, they build up some models.

287
00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:45.419
But they didn't make a model.

288
00:13:45.480 --> 00:13:47.279
They made loads of fragments and put them together.

289
00:13:47.340 --> 00:13:50.159
So we can differently shatter in a very dramatic way.

290
00:13:50.220 --> 00:13:51.299
Yeah, yeah.

291
00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:53.879
The explosion didn't look like something that they'd made in a

292
00:13:53.879 --> 00:13:54.419
computer at all.

293
00:13:54.539 --> 00:13:56.159
When is this 1997.

294
00:13:56.340 --> 00:13:57.179
Yeah.

295
00:13:57.240 --> 00:13:58.080
Yeah.

296
00:13:58.259 --> 00:14:01.139
I don't think there was much like this.

297
00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:02.580
Was there 97?

298
00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:04.019
No.

299
00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:05.340
I don't think so.

300
00:14:05.399 --> 00:14:09.659
I mean, what sort of, I did Star Trek lead to a big kind of

301
00:14:09.659 --> 00:14:14.639
Renaissance of TV science fiction.

302
00:14:14.700 --> 00:14:17.340
No one was watching Babylon 5, which I haven't even heard of.

303
00:14:17.399 --> 00:14:19.019
No, and Babylon 5.

304
00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:19.559
Do you know what?

305
00:14:19.620 --> 00:14:22.259
I don't like Batman on 5 and I certainly don't like the very

306
00:14:22.259 --> 00:14:25.559
cartoonist CGI, but it was pioneering in what it was doing.

307
00:14:25.620 --> 00:14:26.100
Yeah.

308
00:14:26.100 --> 00:14:26.700
Yeah.

309
00:14:26.759 --> 00:14:29.759
Yeah, it did, you know, like it pushed, I guess.

310
00:14:29.820 --> 00:14:34.500
It did look like cartoon spaceships, but it was yeah, it was only

311
00:14:34.500 --> 00:14:39.419
a few years before Star Trek was doing it as well, but they were

312
00:14:39.419 --> 00:14:39.840
better at it.

313
00:14:39.899 --> 00:14:44.100
You know, at the end of this episode, Kate Mulgrew is very badly

314
00:14:44.100 --> 00:14:46.019
superimposed over the ball cube.

315
00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:49.620
Well, every time they go, there's sort of like a mezzanine area on

316
00:14:49.620 --> 00:14:50.820
Babylon 5, right?

317
00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:54.000
And every time they go up on this sort of bridge across the shops

318
00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:57.360
there's a really dreadful sort of backdrop show at the space

319
00:14:57.360 --> 00:15:00.720
station behind them. and it just always looks as bad as that shot

320
00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:01.500
at the end of this.

321
00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:03.840
That is a bad shot in this episode.

322
00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:08.519
And I know you and I, we talked about the artificiality of TV, but

323
00:15:08.519 --> 00:15:09.720
you know, there are limits.

324
00:15:09.779 --> 00:15:11.159
Yeah, yeah.

325
00:15:11.220 --> 00:15:11.879
Yeah, yeah.

326
00:15:11.940 --> 00:15:14.039
I mean you can suspend your disbelief and stuff.

327
00:15:14.100 --> 00:15:18.120
You don't have to have realism, but if part of your job is to

328
00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:19.500
present that.

329
00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:20.879
Oh, all right, okay.

330
00:15:20.940 --> 00:15:22.320
So here we are.

331
00:15:22.379 --> 00:15:27.779
This is the introduction of the da Vinci workshop, which is a kind

332
00:15:27.779 --> 00:15:32.639
of running thing in series for culminating in concerning flight, am

333
00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:33.179
I right?

334
00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:34.980
Unfortunately so, yes.

335
00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:37.799
I can't remember concerning flight.

336
00:15:37.860 --> 00:15:41.100
It's a very charming pair of performances in a particularly badly

337
00:15:41.100 --> 00:15:41.820
written episode.

338
00:15:41.879 --> 00:15:42.299
Okay.

339
00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:44.700
I mean, I think this is really good.

340
00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:48.120
I think the one problem with it, and again, it's a story logic

341
00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:50.100
issue like the one we spoke about last week.

342
00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:55.080
So having that artificial person with the moving arm and stuff

343
00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:57.000
makes us think of the Borg, doesn't it?

344
00:15:57.059 --> 00:16:01.019
But this isn't particularly about anything.

345
00:16:01.139 --> 00:16:09.419
Um, But what I do like is the scene later on where she comes to

346
00:16:09.419 --> 00:16:11.700
speak to Da Vinci.

347
00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:13.799
Oh, the one the bit by a candlelight.

348
00:16:13.860 --> 00:16:14.820
Yeah, yeah.

349
00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:16.679
I think it's really cool.

350
00:16:16.740 --> 00:16:20.340
And so this is, uh, what's his name?

351
00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:22.139
John Reese Davis.

352
00:16:22.200 --> 00:16:23.519
John Reese Davies, who was.

353
00:16:23.580 --> 00:16:25.379
He played the professor in Sliders.

354
00:16:25.379 --> 00:16:29.519
Sliders, but he was in Lord of the Rings, of course.

355
00:16:29.580 --> 00:16:32.159
Oh, yeah.

356
00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:35.639
And Brian Blessed in that, isn't he?

357
00:16:35.700 --> 00:16:37.799
He's really good though.

358
00:16:37.860 --> 00:16:41.340
I think he is really good in this Well, I think he's very

359
00:16:41.340 --> 00:16:41.879
charming.

360
00:16:41.940 --> 00:16:46.559
And I think Kate Mulgra is massively invested because she was

361
00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:49.980
instrumental in this character appearing in Voyager.

362
00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:50.700
Oh, okay.

363
00:16:50.700 --> 00:16:54.419
So in conversations with Braga, she said that she should have a

364
00:16:54.419 --> 00:16:58.620
fellow scientist to sort of talk to that isn't someone on the crew

365
00:16:58.620 --> 00:17:01.500
and they said, well, let's do something fun on the holiday.

366
00:17:01.559 --> 00:17:06.000
Bracker goes, you know, what's the point of history where science

367
00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:10.859
um, and art, like it was at their most contentious together.

368
00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:13.500
And they both went da Vinci at the same time.

369
00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:18.900
And so she, and then I think she might have even been involved in

370
00:17:18.900 --> 00:17:20.759
you know, John Reeslavers would be great at this.

371
00:17:20.819 --> 00:17:24.299
So she really wanted, and she wanted him to be a running character

372
00:17:24.299 --> 00:17:26.700
a bit like Vic Fontaine to go on and on.

373
00:17:26.759 --> 00:17:28.380
It doesn't quite.

374
00:17:28.380 --> 00:17:30.000
It would have been quite nice though, I think.

375
00:17:30.059 --> 00:17:31.680
And where are we?

376
00:17:31.740 --> 00:17:32.339
Where is he?

377
00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:33.240
Is he in Florence?

378
00:17:34.380 --> 00:17:38.579
I think it's a painting of something out the window that looks

379
00:17:38.579 --> 00:17:39.839
vaguely like...

380
00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:41.279
That's one of their better paintings, though.

381
00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:44.579
And I think it's a really big... impressive set.

382
00:17:44.700 --> 00:17:45.720
Tall set.

383
00:17:45.779 --> 00:17:47.099
Look how high the ceiling is.

384
00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:51.839
Look how small it's not... genuinely, massively tall. isn't it?

385
00:17:51.900 --> 00:17:52.619
Yeah.

386
00:17:52.740 --> 00:17:53.400
They going...

387
00:17:53.460 --> 00:17:55.799
I mean, for this whole episode, they're going for scale, aren't

388
00:17:55.799 --> 00:17:55.980
they?

389
00:17:56.519 --> 00:18:00.839
And this, just this conversation is wonderful too, where she gives

390
00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:06.240
him the idea of a flying machine that doesn't work from flapping

391
00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:11.220
wings, but through gliding. wonderful.

392
00:18:12.660 --> 00:18:18.779
I realise watching this is about 75% of the joy of watching this

393
00:18:18.779 --> 00:18:20.039
show is Kate Marlgrew.

394
00:18:20.099 --> 00:18:21.119
Oh she's so good.

395
00:18:21.180 --> 00:18:22.980
She is extraordinary.

396
00:18:23.099 --> 00:18:24.960
And the fact that we almost didn't get her.

397
00:18:25.019 --> 00:18:28.680
And we almost have Genevieve Bujol, you know?

398
00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:30.059
Yeah, who's...

399
00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:32.640
I think she probably would have been as wooden as Beltran.

400
00:18:32.700 --> 00:18:34.619
We would have had 2 very wooden leads in this show.

401
00:18:35.339 --> 00:18:40.619
But she's she's got a real kind of, there's a real life, a real

402
00:18:40.619 --> 00:18:41.519
verve.

403
00:18:41.579 --> 00:18:44.460
And I think there are some beautiful moments in this episode.

404
00:18:44.519 --> 00:18:46.559
She's really, really properly good.

405
00:18:47.940 --> 00:18:50.759
Okay, so we've got some bad news.

406
00:18:50.819 --> 00:18:53.759
I'd love to throw this, picked up some information.

407
00:18:56.880 --> 00:19:00.720
All she has to do is just this bit in engineering.

408
00:19:00.779 --> 00:19:04.619
But until like that goes to the thing, then there's a Borg looking

409
00:19:04.619 --> 00:19:07.440
at it, pointing it with a thing, and so it's been captured.

410
00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:10.680
Like that was the probe's eye view of being captured by the Borg

411
00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:12.480
and a Borg was about to disassemble it.

412
00:19:12.539 --> 00:19:14.279
What is with this table?

413
00:19:14.339 --> 00:19:17.400
Can anyone tell me what's going on with this?

414
00:19:17.460 --> 00:19:19.079
It looks like an enormous keyhole, doesn't it?

415
00:19:19.140 --> 00:19:20.220
Yeah, I don't know.

416
00:19:20.279 --> 00:19:21.900
It is a shape like that.

417
00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:22.799
It's very hard.

418
00:19:22.859 --> 00:19:25.980
I feel like it's supposed to light up and a hologram is supposed

419
00:19:25.980 --> 00:19:26.940
to come out of it or something.

420
00:19:26.940 --> 00:19:28.200
Maybe that was it.

421
00:19:28.259 --> 00:19:30.299
I can't afford it, yeah, I'm afraid.

422
00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:31.140
That's correct.

423
00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:32.220
Yeah, that's right.

424
00:19:32.339 --> 00:19:35.880
What it does do, I think, is throw the focus on Kate because it's

425
00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:38.039
not like the conference table.

426
00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:39.960
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

427
00:19:40.019 --> 00:19:40.920
Yeah, yeah.

428
00:19:40.980 --> 00:19:43.859
It's a strong position for her to be in.

429
00:19:44.220 --> 00:19:48.000
Now, I want to say, I remember writing to you when I was watching

430
00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:48.599
this episode.

431
00:19:48.660 --> 00:19:52.980
I was really impressed with this scene because this crew just

432
00:19:52.980 --> 00:19:56.460
seems very competent in this scene that everybody around that

433
00:19:56.460 --> 00:20:00.299
table comes up with an idea and they formulate a plan around those

434
00:20:00.299 --> 00:20:00.720
ideas.

435
00:20:00.779 --> 00:20:03.480
Well, that's classic Star Trek, isn't it?

436
00:20:03.539 --> 00:20:05.819
It's the classic we're good at our jobs.

437
00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:08.460
You'd think it would be a given, but it isn't really the normal

438
00:20:08.460 --> 00:20:09.539
Voyager, you know?

439
00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:18.240
So, can you hear me?

440
00:20:18.299 --> 00:20:19.319
Yeah.

441
00:20:19.380 --> 00:20:20.640
Yeah, okay.

442
00:20:20.700 --> 00:20:22.619
I think I bumped something.

443
00:20:22.980 --> 00:20:25.980
So why is Neelix here?

444
00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:29.039
He's just going to, he's organising snacks.

445
00:20:29.099 --> 00:20:30.900
No, no, they say Neelix.

446
00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:33.539
I don't think we're going to be able to get any supplies soon.

447
00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:34.980
Don't worry.

448
00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:38.700
I'm working on a plan to, you know, keep our rations going.

449
00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:41.940
They throw it in a line to excuse him.

450
00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:45.359
I mean, he should be throwing, he should be throwing parties or

451
00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:48.599
something, Borg themed parties to keep everyone's morale up.

452
00:20:48.779 --> 00:20:53.519
Let's take a step back from the usual wager for a 2nd there and

453
00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:58.500
think about how exciting this is that we are entering Bork space.

454
00:20:58.619 --> 00:21:01.859
That's a big idea, and that's an exciting idea.

455
00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:05.519
And then they managed to trump that with the other premise, which

456
00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:08.700
is, who the hell could do this to the Borg?

457
00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:10.680
They're all being murdered.

458
00:21:10.740 --> 00:21:15.480
Yeah, it's brilliant too, that they actually lead with that, and

459
00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:17.279
then we're allowed to forget about it.

460
00:21:17.339 --> 00:21:19.319
I always think that that's particularly good.

461
00:21:19.380 --> 00:21:23.400
The show itself forgets that this episode is about a big offscreen

462
00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:25.500
thing that can destroy the Borg very easily.

463
00:21:25.559 --> 00:21:28.200
And so it makes the threat the Borg.

464
00:21:28.259 --> 00:21:30.180
And so why does he have a hand?

465
00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:35.460
Why does the good Robert have a hand with nanotubules on it or

466
00:21:35.460 --> 00:21:35.700
whatever?

467
00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:38.460
He got this in unity in unity three.

468
00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:38.819
Yeah.

469
00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:39.420
Yeah, okay.

470
00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:40.559
Don't worry. all makes sense.

471
00:21:40.619 --> 00:21:42.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

472
00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:45.240
No, I assumed, I mean, I assumed that, which is why they, I'm

473
00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:48.359
relieved that we don't have a line where he says this hand that I

474
00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:52.259
retrieve from the Borg, you know, like blah, blah, blah.

475
00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:54.539
It's like, where do we imagine he got it from?

476
00:21:54.599 --> 00:21:54.960
Excuse me.

477
00:21:55.019 --> 00:21:55.680
They're not above it.

478
00:21:55.740 --> 00:21:58.920
When we watched Endgame and 7 of 9 wanted to have a romance with

479
00:21:58.920 --> 00:22:01.259
Chakotay and they were like, no, no, remember in that episode

480
00:22:01.259 --> 00:22:02.940
you're not allowed to have a romance.

481
00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:04.380
Remember, you're called so implants.

482
00:22:06.299 --> 00:22:08.819
I will make a comparison as well.

483
00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:10.200
I know I'll do this a lot, yeah.

484
00:22:10.259 --> 00:22:13.859
But as a finale, as the end as an end to a season.

485
00:22:13.920 --> 00:22:16.619
This is miles better than endgame.

486
00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:18.000
I think.

487
00:22:18.059 --> 00:22:19.079
Yeah.

488
00:22:19.140 --> 00:22:24.480
I think I think endgame works as the end of a series though.

489
00:22:24.539 --> 00:22:27.059
Yeah, I don't know about this.

490
00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:31.740
So this is us working towards the departure of Kess, and we know

491
00:22:31.740 --> 00:22:33.180
that's happening, don't we already?

492
00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:35.279
Like this is, yeah.

493
00:22:35.339 --> 00:22:36.839
And so yeah, yeah, yeah.

494
00:22:37.500 --> 00:22:40.559
This is the last time that her name appears in the credits from

495
00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:42.900
series four.

496
00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:44.160
She's best guest star, yeah.

497
00:22:44.220 --> 00:22:47.400
Okay, and that she's just in that episode.

498
00:22:47.460 --> 00:22:49.259
That and the gift.

499
00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:49.559
Yeah.

500
00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:51.839
Oh, yes, of course.

501
00:22:51.900 --> 00:22:52.079
Yeah.

502
00:22:52.140 --> 00:22:53.339
So she's back for 2 episodes.

503
00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:53.940
That's right.

504
00:22:54.119 --> 00:22:58.140
And so KS is starting to become telepathic in a way that he's

505
00:22:58.140 --> 00:23:02.099
going to enable them to write her out in gift, in the gift, and

506
00:23:02.099 --> 00:23:06.960
then to kind of ruin this exciting new premise by just flinging

507
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:09.119
a...

508
00:23:09.180 --> 00:23:10.859
So bad, isn't it?

509
00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:14.519
Look, maybe a whole season of them dodging the board, Borg would

510
00:23:14.519 --> 00:23:15.240
have been terrible.

511
00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:18.720
But it didn't have to be and it didn't have to be boring.

512
00:23:18.779 --> 00:23:20.579
They could have found new things.

513
00:23:20.700 --> 00:23:24.779
Four seasons of them attempting to dodge the cylons and Battlestar

514
00:23:24.779 --> 00:23:25.799
Galactica didn't get boring.

515
00:23:25.859 --> 00:23:26.819
No that's right.

516
00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:30.240
If you've got a bit of imagination and creative.

517
00:23:30.299 --> 00:23:30.660
Yeah, exactly.

518
00:23:30.779 --> 00:23:35.339
Well, I mean, even if you think about the series 3 of Enterprise

519
00:23:35.339 --> 00:23:39.839
where they spend a whole season on a mission and each episode, like

520
00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:42.539
I think it does serialisation quite well, even if I think the

521
00:23:42.539 --> 00:23:44.700
whole thing is massively misconceived.

522
00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:49.319
You know, each episode is a standalone episode set against this

523
00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:49.980
backdrop.

524
00:23:50.039 --> 00:23:53.039
They could have done it, but they were a little bit too scared.

525
00:23:53.099 --> 00:23:56.579
I mean, they're a little bit too kind of know this is for

526
00:23:56.579 --> 00:23:57.240
syndication.

527
00:23:57.299 --> 00:24:00.059
It has to be viewable in any order.

528
00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:02.279
And that kind of wrecks the show a bit.

529
00:24:02.339 --> 00:24:02.880
Look at that.

530
00:24:04.019 --> 00:24:09.539
I love the count too, where he goes, one, two, three, four, 15

531
00:24:09.539 --> 00:24:13.559
like he jumps, a huge number, and then just give you...

532
00:24:13.619 --> 00:24:15.599
He goes, Captain.

533
00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:19.019
Apparently, they were all paying attention.

534
00:24:19.019 --> 00:24:21.059
And they went, are you going to say the line like that?

535
00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:23.640
And then every time they had to say captain, they all took the

536
00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:24.059
piss out of him.

537
00:24:24.180 --> 00:24:25.559
This is great.

538
00:24:25.619 --> 00:24:28.619
So they're being photocopied by the Borg.

539
00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:34.859
And as that scanning thing goes across the bridge and it hits her

540
00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:37.200
She says, think good thoughts.

541
00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:42.299
And like, I'm not even sure why she's saying that.

542
00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:47.099
Is it so, is it because she's fancying that if they're thinking

543
00:24:47.099 --> 00:24:50.940
good thoughts when the Borg scam them, you know, that they'll get

544
00:24:50.940 --> 00:24:56.099
a reading of them being strong or brave or something like that, is

545
00:24:56.099 --> 00:24:59.940
it just they're really close and I need you to feel okay?

546
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:04.920
But just the fact that it's never, like, it's an odd thing to say

547
00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:06.000
and it's a great line.

548
00:25:06.119 --> 00:25:07.380
It's a good line.

549
00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:10.980
And but like, you know, and I will always say when they're copying

550
00:25:10.980 --> 00:25:14.880
other shows, you know, end of series 3 of TNG, the ball walk, and

551
00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:18.779
we have that shot in best of both worlds where the green light

552
00:25:18.779 --> 00:25:20.279
comes across the enterprise.

553
00:25:20.339 --> 00:25:23.700
Like we're playing in the same kind of ballpark, aren't we?

554
00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:24.180
Yeah.

555
00:25:24.180 --> 00:25:26.759
But it, like, like you said to me about Dog 2.

556
00:25:26.940 --> 00:25:30.599
It's looking back at when Star Trek was enormously popular and

557
00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:33.599
what worked and saying, right, let's do that and then we'll make

558
00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:33.960
it bigger.

559
00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:35.039
Yeah.

560
00:25:35.099 --> 00:25:38.519
That shot too, I think the one problem with that shot where they

561
00:25:38.519 --> 00:25:42.539
go past the 14 cubes is that?

562
00:25:42.539 --> 00:25:45.119
15 is, yeah, 15.

563
00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:53.640
It's in the dialogue, is that the, the, um, Voyager is relatively

564
00:25:53.640 --> 00:25:55.440
large compared to the cubes.

565
00:25:57.000 --> 00:25:58.740
Is it those?

566
00:25:59.460 --> 00:26:02.460
Isn't there a scene where the balls, the cubes sort of fly by them

567
00:26:02.460 --> 00:26:04.140
and Voyager just sort of gets flung?

568
00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:07.680
Yeah, but I think Voyager is quite large compared to the cubes in

569
00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:08.039
that shot.

570
00:26:08.099 --> 00:26:10.680
I thought that that was the problem with that shot, whereas the

571
00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:14.160
enterprise is quite small compared to the Borgian best of both

572
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:14.640
worlds.

573
00:26:14.759 --> 00:26:17.640
And, you know, also...

574
00:26:17.700 --> 00:26:19.859
We've had all of these sort of establishing shots of the

575
00:26:19.859 --> 00:26:23.880
Enterprise over a couple of years. of it feeling vast. and then we

576
00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:24.960
see the queue.

577
00:26:25.019 --> 00:26:28.619
It's absolutely enormous compared to the enterprise, yeah.

578
00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:36.180
So this scene, I'm not sure why we're doing this, but there is a

579
00:26:36.180 --> 00:26:40.440
little bit, I think, I think that they say nearly works, and I

580
00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:43.500
think that Robert nearly rises to it.

581
00:26:43.559 --> 00:26:47.819
Like, they're having a little bit of, like, this is quite a nice

582
00:26:47.819 --> 00:26:48.720
moment.

583
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:54.240
And there's, we need this moment, don't we?

584
00:26:54.299 --> 00:26:56.519
We need this moment to see the wharf between them.

585
00:26:56.579 --> 00:26:58.740
And for him to say look, I'll follow you anywhere.

586
00:26:58.799 --> 00:27:02.400
But the scene later on, where she says, just yesterday, you said

587
00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:03.599
to me, you'd follow me anywhere.

588
00:27:03.660 --> 00:27:04.500
Now I'm on my own.

589
00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:06.180
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

590
00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:06.660
Yeah.

591
00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:08.579
And it gives her the chance to act.

592
00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:12.000
I love the idea that Ensign Hickman does a Janeway.

593
00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:13.259
Oh, my God.

594
00:27:13.319 --> 00:27:14.759
Look at Kate's reaction.

595
00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:16.619
She loves it. so good.

596
00:27:16.680 --> 00:27:20.039
And, of course, the thing that Janeway is so imitable.

597
00:27:20.099 --> 00:27:22.559
You know, it's that performance, that Catherine Hepburn

598
00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:23.099
performance.

599
00:27:23.160 --> 00:27:26.579
It's wonderful and it really humanises her.

600
00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:31.500
But the way she ends this scene, like, it's not just the line, it's

601
00:27:31.500 --> 00:27:35.099
the delivery because the one thing that she does.

602
00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:37.140
She, she doesn't.

603
00:27:37.380 --> 00:27:38.940
She's not doing method.

604
00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:39.779
Do you know what I mean?

605
00:27:39.839 --> 00:27:43.380
She shows us what she's feeling.

606
00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:45.720
And she does it so well.

607
00:27:45.779 --> 00:27:47.700
She does it so tremendously well.

608
00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:50.039
Well, I like the fact at this point as well.

609
00:27:50.099 --> 00:27:52.619
They just let her show emotion when the scene is like.

610
00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:55.259
I think initially they wanted that to be a bit sort of hard as now

611
00:27:55.259 --> 00:27:57.059
and a bit more masculine, yeah.

612
00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:01.079
But I think it's wonderful, this strong leader who is like that.

613
00:28:01.140 --> 00:28:03.059
So this, do you know what I mean?

614
00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:04.079
We'll face it together.

615
00:28:04.140 --> 00:28:07.440
If things go horribly wrong, what we're facing is our whole

616
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:10.680
mission, and this, you're not alone, Catherine, and look at the

617
00:28:10.680 --> 00:28:11.579
look on her face.

618
00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:17.339
And that line is beautiful and so well delivered.

619
00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:20.339
Three years ago, I didn't know your name and now I can't imagine a

620
00:28:20.339 --> 00:28:22.799
day without you. gorgeous, isn't it?

621
00:28:22.859 --> 00:28:24.539
And she touches his chest.

622
00:28:24.599 --> 00:28:27.480
And it's not particularly romantic.

623
00:28:27.539 --> 00:28:29.819
And I think what's a...

624
00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:30.660
Not at all.

625
00:28:30.660 --> 00:28:34.680
But, you know, there are attractive people, do you know what I

626
00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:34.859
mean?

627
00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:39.779
Like there's a free song there, but I guess what, I guess what

628
00:28:39.779 --> 00:28:44.339
disappoints me is how Beltran doesn't, I think they fudge this in

629
00:28:44.339 --> 00:28:44.940
the writing.

630
00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:46.619
Like, I think they fucked this up.

631
00:28:47.579 --> 00:28:53.220
And I just don't think he gives her anything.

632
00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:56.759
Like he's rising to being in a scene with her, but when she's

633
00:28:56.759 --> 00:28:59.700
unconscious or out of the picture, He's just not up to it.

634
00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:02.460
Imagine if she was going up against sort of, you know, Renee

635
00:29:02.460 --> 00:29:04.200
Obichon Wild, someone like that, you know.

636
00:29:04.259 --> 00:29:06.059
It would be gold, wouldn't it?

637
00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:09.599
It said she's sort of just emoting against a plank of woods.

638
00:29:09.900 --> 00:29:15.119
So here we have the Borg debris on the screen, which looks pretty

639
00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:15.599
amazing.

640
00:29:16.559 --> 00:29:21.359
And this is where Paris gets his best line ever, where he says, who

641
00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:22.619
could do this sort of Borg?

642
00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:25.500
That's the mission statement of this episode, isn't it?

643
00:29:25.559 --> 00:29:26.579
Who the hell?

644
00:29:27.240 --> 00:29:31.980
That shot is great of the Voyager just going in through the Borg

645
00:29:31.980 --> 00:29:32.700
debris.

646
00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:36.059
Going back to Kate Mulgrew for a second.

647
00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:41.339
I've got a quote here from Joe Manosky. because they started to

648
00:29:41.339 --> 00:29:49.500
notice that Janeway, as the series went on, was being performed

649
00:29:49.500 --> 00:29:53.519
more like Kate Mulgrew and the Janeway, but they were writing.

650
00:29:53.579 --> 00:29:56.339
And so Verowski says here, in Scorpion part one.

651
00:29:56.400 --> 00:30:00.119
Janeway was becoming a little more risk taking and edgy, and

652
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:02.819
frankly, a little bit more like Kate Mulgrew.

653
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:05.880
I've always said, even to Jerry Taylor, I used to say always

654
00:30:05.880 --> 00:30:09.240
anyway, if Captain Janeway were more like Kate, we would have a

655
00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:10.680
much better character on our hands.

656
00:30:10.740 --> 00:30:13.980
So for whatever reason, our writing and Kate's kind of

657
00:30:13.980 --> 00:30:17.640
freewheeling personality, they seem to come together a bit more at

658
00:30:17.640 --> 00:30:18.660
the end of the 3rd season.

659
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:21.480
And I think you and that's absolutely true, isn't it?

660
00:30:21.539 --> 00:30:22.619
Yeah.

661
00:30:22.619 --> 00:30:23.880
She's got a bit more bite.

662
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:25.559
Yeah, she's astonishing.

663
00:30:25.619 --> 00:30:30.720
And I think it's no coincidence that the episodes of Voyager that

664
00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:35.579
we've been most positive about, have had her in a kind of major

665
00:30:35.579 --> 00:30:37.680
role, particularly counterpoint.

666
00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:41.819
Jeez, that one in series one, prime factors, where Chivot betrays

667
00:30:41.819 --> 00:30:42.000
her.

668
00:30:42.059 --> 00:30:42.720
Yeah.

669
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:44.880
Fucking hell, her performance at the end of that.

670
00:30:44.940 --> 00:30:45.839
So good.

671
00:30:45.900 --> 00:30:47.039
She's so good.

672
00:30:47.339 --> 00:30:50.640
And do you remember, do you remember Death Wish as well, where she

673
00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:54.119
has to make the ruling on where to kill the queue.

674
00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:55.799
Oh, she's brilliant in that as well.

675
00:30:56.460 --> 00:30:59.460
Yeah, yeah, it's a shame.

676
00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:02.880
I think that we don't get more of her and Tuvok.

677
00:31:02.940 --> 00:31:05.700
Like Tuvok's so wasted by this show.

678
00:31:05.819 --> 00:31:09.839
And they have a, you know, they have a close relationship because

679
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:15.539
he's been in the crew for a long time and he's also an incredibly

680
00:31:15.539 --> 00:31:16.799
strong actor on the cast.

681
00:31:16.859 --> 00:31:18.240
You know, right?

682
00:31:18.299 --> 00:31:20.819
been watching a show recently called Samantha Who, right?

683
00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:24.900
I only ran for 2 seasons and Tim Russ is in it as one of the sort

684
00:31:24.900 --> 00:31:26.880
of semi-regulars.

685
00:31:26.940 --> 00:31:30.000
He's the doorman where she lives and he plays it very like

686
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:30.660
Chewbok.

687
00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:34.319
He's a bit sort of emotionless and robotic, but every episode

688
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:36.480
she's got one scene where she's going in and out of the apartment

689
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:39.539
and he gets a devastatingly witty line.

690
00:31:39.539 --> 00:31:41.099
And he's really funny.

691
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:43.559
And I'm like, whoever knew Tim Ross?

692
00:31:43.619 --> 00:31:46.500
It's funny because Voyager certainly never showed me that in 7

693
00:31:46.500 --> 00:31:46.740
years.

694
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:48.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

695
00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:48.900
And they could have done.

696
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:52.680
I mean, you know, like Ethan Peck is funny as Spock. just because

697
00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:54.720
he's a Vulcan doesn't mean he can't be funny.

698
00:31:55.079 --> 00:31:56.819
Right, come on.

699
00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:00.059
You and me are going to have a punch-up. don't think this works at

700
00:32:00.059 --> 00:32:00.299
all.

701
00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:02.400
I think this is terrific sequence.

702
00:32:02.460 --> 00:32:06.599
The one thing that I do like is that where the ball got kind

703
00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:07.920
of...

704
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:08.640
Punching at the air.

705
00:32:08.700 --> 00:32:12.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah. that demented behaviour and where they're kind

706
00:32:12.059 --> 00:32:14.579
of slightly dismembered and all of that, that's good.

707
00:32:14.700 --> 00:32:18.599
Always going on about how there's no atmosphere in 90s trek.

708
00:32:18.660 --> 00:32:20.339
They are pumping it full of dry ice.

709
00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:21.599
The lighting is down.

710
00:32:21.660 --> 00:32:23.400
They're strobe lighting going on.

711
00:32:23.460 --> 00:32:26.640
We don't know what we're going to face because we've already...

712
00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:31.019
But it's just the same shitty set. you know, that sort of flat

713
00:32:31.019 --> 00:32:32.940
pack that they've assembled into a thing.

714
00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:36.960
Look at the, like there's no sense of space that we're just going

715
00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:38.519
backwards and forwards.

716
00:32:38.579 --> 00:32:39.900
There's no urgency.

717
00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:41.339
There's no...

718
00:32:41.339 --> 00:32:42.180
I think it's tight.

719
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:45.299
Because we're not really supposed to see the threat, yeah.

720
00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:46.319
I don't know.

721
00:32:46.380 --> 00:32:48.180
I just thought there was a real I thought there was a visual

722
00:32:48.180 --> 00:32:48.599
drama.

723
00:32:49.019 --> 00:32:49.799
Like, that's shit.

724
00:32:49.859 --> 00:32:50.819
That thing.

725
00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:52.259
You know what that is?

726
00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:55.680
The Borg corpse is all sort of amalgamated together.

727
00:32:55.740 --> 00:33:00.000
It's a 12 inch model that they've made.

728
00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:05.099
Well, because later on Harry's edging around it, like the

729
00:33:05.099 --> 00:33:07.740
characters are edging around it now, and I thought, that's not

730
00:33:07.740 --> 00:33:09.180
even there.

731
00:33:09.660 --> 00:33:13.259
But, you know, props to them for doing something a bit grizzly

732
00:33:13.259 --> 00:33:14.519
because it's a bit nasty.

733
00:33:14.579 --> 00:33:17.579
You know, it's got bald heads been severed and things like that.

734
00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:19.799
Here's what I think the problem is, right?

735
00:33:19.859 --> 00:33:23.339
So they're redoing the scene from Qhu.

736
00:33:23.400 --> 00:33:28.619
And in Qhu, they... got a lot brighter in kihu.

737
00:33:28.680 --> 00:33:33.960
Yeah, but unless, but this, like, they have all of this stuff

738
00:33:33.960 --> 00:33:39.000
lying around after 1st contact, and they don't seem to be using it

739
00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:40.380
the set seems quite small.

740
00:33:41.460 --> 00:33:46.680
Q who is that thing where they go on board the Borg cube and they

741
00:33:46.680 --> 00:33:50.160
investigate it and they have babies in drawers, which I think we

742
00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:52.859
need to bring back, like, why don't the Borg have babies in

743
00:33:52.859 --> 00:33:53.700
drawers anymore?

744
00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:58.200
And, and like, and it doesn't definitely generate with the

745
00:33:58.200 --> 00:33:59.220
hairdryer. you know?

746
00:33:59.279 --> 00:34:01.019
Yeah, that's right.

747
00:34:01.079 --> 00:34:04.140
But all of that is because the Borg are new and we've never done

748
00:34:04.140 --> 00:34:06.359
them before and we need to see them.

749
00:34:06.420 --> 00:34:09.539
We need to see what they're like, particularly given that we're

750
00:34:09.539 --> 00:34:12.840
basically only interacting with them from inside the spaceship

751
00:34:12.840 --> 00:34:13.079
right?

752
00:34:13.139 --> 00:34:15.059
Otherwise, they're just a square spaceship.

753
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:18.539
We need to kind of go in there and see them and learn what they're

754
00:34:18.539 --> 00:34:18.840
like.

755
00:34:18.900 --> 00:34:24.119
And because it's so odd and because we don't really know the Borg

756
00:34:24.119 --> 00:34:27.780
and because I think of Ron Jones's music, although I think the

757
00:34:27.780 --> 00:34:31.199
music in this 2 parter is very good, I've been humming the music

758
00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:33.360
at the end of this episode all week.

759
00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:34.199
Yeah, yeah.

760
00:34:34.260 --> 00:34:37.500
Not just the Borg theme, but the 8472 theme is very good.

761
00:34:37.559 --> 00:34:41.159
Here, we're walking around and we don't really expect anything to

762
00:34:41.159 --> 00:34:42.659
happen, so there's no tension.

763
00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:45.300
And I do think like it's not propulsive.

764
00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:46.500
There's no sense of pace.

765
00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:47.280
There's nothing.

766
00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:48.719
Don't buy that, though.

767
00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:53.880
They've established a threat that there's something that's killing

768
00:34:53.880 --> 00:34:54.420
the Borg.

769
00:34:54.539 --> 00:34:57.539
And we know it's on this cube because this cube is...

770
00:34:57.539 --> 00:35:01.320
And we know that it has...

771
00:35:01.380 --> 00:35:03.960
But it could see, I was really involved watching this scene

772
00:35:03.960 --> 00:35:07.079
because I was like, okay, we've kind of suggested that there's a

773
00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:07.619
big threat.

774
00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:09.300
And we're doing...

775
00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:11.760
I'd rather have these tight shots in these sets than the long

776
00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:14.400
shots with the terrible, you know, backdrops that we get at the

777
00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:14.820
end of the episode.

778
00:35:14.940 --> 00:35:19.019
No, no, no, that's true, but I still don't get a sense of, like

779
00:35:19.019 --> 00:35:22.500
what they're sort of wandering around some sets and bits of

780
00:35:22.500 --> 00:35:23.219
standing set.

781
00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:24.900
I just...

782
00:35:24.900 --> 00:35:27.840
The feeling I got was that something could jump out of them at any

783
00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:28.139
minute.

784
00:35:28.199 --> 00:35:30.300
And there's a bit of handheld camera work going on.

785
00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:34.380
And then something, surprise, surprise, does jump out and surprise

786
00:35:34.380 --> 00:35:37.079
surprise, attacks Harry Kim because he's the chunk that always

787
00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:37.739
gets attacked.

788
00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:38.639
Exactly.

789
00:35:38.699 --> 00:35:39.420
Bless him.

790
00:35:39.539 --> 00:35:41.940
But no, you've got to remember as well.

791
00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:44.519
There was a suggestion that Garrett rang was going to be written

792
00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:48.360
out and this, I think, was going to be how they were going to do

793
00:35:48.360 --> 00:35:48.539
it.

794
00:35:48.599 --> 00:35:49.380
Right.

795
00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:51.179
Well, they were going to kill him.

796
00:35:51.239 --> 00:35:52.500
Wow.

797
00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:54.780
Yeah, but they don't think.

798
00:35:54.780 --> 00:35:55.559
What are they going to do?

799
00:35:55.619 --> 00:35:56.460
have him fall in love.

800
00:35:56.519 --> 00:35:59.699
Yeah, yeah. and like stay on a planet or whatever.

801
00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:01.860
Just have him demoted.

802
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:04.139
But again, this is shitty too.

803
00:36:04.199 --> 00:36:05.039
Do you know what I mean?

804
00:36:05.099 --> 00:36:08.340
Part of the problem with Star Trek at this point is that the sets

805
00:36:08.340 --> 00:36:12.780
are just bits of flat pack that they kind of reassemble into

806
00:36:12.780 --> 00:36:14.820
different things.

807
00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:18.179
This is something new, but yeah, that's quite good, isn't it?

808
00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:22.139
But I think that set is really shitty.

809
00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:26.400
And like we've seen that done better in aliens.

810
00:36:26.460 --> 00:36:27.239
Do you know what I mean?

811
00:36:27.300 --> 00:36:31.860
which is a feature film, but it's a feature film from, you know, a

812
00:36:31.860 --> 00:36:34.079
few years earlier than this.

813
00:36:34.139 --> 00:36:38.280
You know, it needs to look like the inside of a body and it just

814
00:36:38.280 --> 00:36:39.960
it just doesn't quite get there.

815
00:36:40.019 --> 00:36:42.659
It's so weird how you and me had a completely different reaction

816
00:36:42.659 --> 00:36:43.559
to that sequence.

817
00:36:43.619 --> 00:36:45.780
I was properly involved in that.

818
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:49.019
How the camera was sort of following Harry around.

819
00:36:49.079 --> 00:36:52.320
I was like, when's he going to get attacked because I knew it was

820
00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:52.559
coming.

821
00:36:52.739 --> 00:36:54.119
Yeah.

822
00:36:54.119 --> 00:36:58.079
I mean, I'm looking forward to the big reveal, which is coming.

823
00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:04.800
As as sort of dated as the Species 8472 CGI is now.

824
00:37:04.860 --> 00:37:07.860
I think it's an attempt to do something a bit different.

825
00:37:07.980 --> 00:37:08.579
Oh, yeah.

826
00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:11.340
And I think at the time it was, I mean, it was an impressive at

827
00:37:11.340 --> 00:37:11.639
the time.

828
00:37:11.699 --> 00:37:16.679
It was still a bit shitty, but it was, yeah, you know, like

829
00:37:16.679 --> 00:37:19.679
enterprise, I think, goes on and does this with the Tholians and

830
00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:20.820
the Gorn, doesn't it?

831
00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:21.900
Like a few years later.

832
00:37:21.960 --> 00:37:26.219
Um, well-established aliens are realised it's just sort of

833
00:37:26.219 --> 00:37:27.360
computer generated.

834
00:37:27.420 --> 00:37:31.619
And it's more successful because the technology is a bit better.

835
00:37:31.679 --> 00:37:33.539
But I'm glad that they tried it.

836
00:37:33.599 --> 00:37:35.039
See, this is bullshit as well.

837
00:37:35.099 --> 00:37:36.900
We're going to do a skeleta lock.

838
00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:42.059
It's a thing I just thought up and maybe that will let us beam him

839
00:37:42.059 --> 00:37:44.039
over, even though we couldn't do it before.

840
00:37:44.099 --> 00:37:46.739
We're going to have to add that to the Starfleet manual.

841
00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:47.880
So shit.

842
00:37:47.940 --> 00:37:48.960
Come on.

843
00:37:49.019 --> 00:37:51.239
We never hear of it ever again.

844
00:37:51.300 --> 00:37:53.820
Just like that bit where he fiddles about that because we haven't

845
00:37:53.820 --> 00:37:55.320
tried to make a terrible decision.

846
00:37:55.440 --> 00:37:59.039
Oh, they're probably using skeletal locks all the time from here

847
00:37:59.039 --> 00:37:59.519
on.

848
00:37:59.579 --> 00:38:00.179
Oh, here we go.

849
00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:01.380
Yeah, so here we go.

850
00:38:02.940 --> 00:38:04.619
I'll say this.

851
00:38:04.679 --> 00:38:08.519
I'll say this, all right, because this is the one of 2 times when

852
00:38:08.519 --> 00:38:11.699
they try to create, you know, the most fearsome menace that Star

853
00:38:11.699 --> 00:38:17.460
Trek's ever seen, is this and the slimers from the end of Equedox

854
00:38:17.519 --> 00:38:17.940
you remember?

855
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:19.500
Those sort of ghostly things.

856
00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:20.940
They wrote in the script.

857
00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:23.340
This has got to be the most terrifying thing that we've ever

858
00:38:23.340 --> 00:38:24.059
faced.

859
00:38:24.119 --> 00:38:28.139
And then they did these CGI versions of Slimer from Ghostbusters.

860
00:38:28.199 --> 00:38:32.340
And I think neither time they're particularly successful, but this

861
00:38:32.340 --> 00:38:34.920
is probably the more successful 2 attempts.

862
00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:40.500
Yeah, I look, you know, they come back once, is that right?

863
00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:42.900
And they're mostly just played by people in Holodeck.

864
00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:44.400
Did you see that ball?

865
00:38:44.460 --> 00:38:45.780
It just flung Voyager.

866
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:48.300
Just like literally just flipped the voyager over.

867
00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:49.320
Yeah.

868
00:38:49.380 --> 00:38:51.659
It feels like...

869
00:38:51.659 --> 00:38:53.280
It does feel like the danger's big, doesn't it?

870
00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:54.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

871
00:38:54.900 --> 00:38:55.260
Yeah.

872
00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:59.519
And I think, like, I like the look of the bio ships from outside.

873
00:38:59.579 --> 00:39:03.239
Like I think inside the set is shit, but I think that they look

874
00:39:03.239 --> 00:39:03.900
really great.

875
00:39:03.960 --> 00:39:10.199
And it's a very good formation. and all the electric goes into the

876
00:39:10.199 --> 00:39:12.300
one in the middle and it fires out a massive beam.

877
00:39:12.360 --> 00:39:15.239
Well, that, I think, what the hell is going on?

878
00:39:15.300 --> 00:39:16.619
It's awesome.

879
00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:18.000
It's really good.

880
00:39:18.059 --> 00:39:21.659
And it's them doing, you know, real proper giant computer

881
00:39:21.659 --> 00:39:23.340
generated weird stuff.

882
00:39:23.400 --> 00:39:29.280
You know, and the 8472 are weirder than the Borg, because the Borg

883
00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:29.940
have...

884
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:33.119
I mean, the thing about the Borg is they have ships that don't

885
00:39:33.119 --> 00:39:35.820
give a shit about aerodynamics or design or anything like that

886
00:39:35.820 --> 00:39:38.820
they're just a fucking, geometric shape, you know, like, and

887
00:39:38.820 --> 00:39:39.659
that's all we're doing.

888
00:39:39.659 --> 00:39:41.760
And all our pipes are on the outside.

889
00:39:41.880 --> 00:39:42.599
Do you know what I mean?

890
00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:44.820
We don't care about how it looks or it's designed.

891
00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:45.960
We're completely alien.

892
00:39:46.019 --> 00:39:49.139
And then you get these things which are just like big, weird

893
00:39:49.139 --> 00:39:52.500
aliens who ride in big, weird aliens.

894
00:39:52.619 --> 00:39:54.780
And the rules are gone.

895
00:39:54.840 --> 00:39:58.920
Bluidic space, which I think is an idea that's a lot more fun than

896
00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:02.099
they ever actually managed to realise in the episode.

897
00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:05.039
I think that you could do amazing things with that idea.

898
00:40:05.099 --> 00:40:07.440
But one, they don't have the means.

899
00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:09.300
And two, they don't really have the imagination.

900
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:14.940
No, in discovery, remember there's like mushroom space. sort of

901
00:40:14.940 --> 00:40:15.780
subspace realm.

902
00:40:15.780 --> 00:40:17.340
But it looked amazing, didn't it?

903
00:40:17.400 --> 00:40:20.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course it did, but it's much later.

904
00:40:20.579 --> 00:40:23.280
But look at Kate.

905
00:40:23.340 --> 00:40:26.400
Look at Kate's really...

906
00:40:26.460 --> 00:40:29.340
Harry Kim has got an enormous frond coming out of his nose now.

907
00:40:29.400 --> 00:40:30.780
Yeah, tendril.

908
00:40:30.840 --> 00:40:32.699
It's a big tendril coming out.

909
00:40:32.760 --> 00:40:34.139
Oh, that is really gross, though.

910
00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:36.000
Mr. Kim is being eaten alive.

911
00:40:36.900 --> 00:40:39.000
And he can't be treated.

912
00:40:39.059 --> 00:40:40.920
And this goes somewhere as well.

913
00:40:40.980 --> 00:40:42.840
Like this explains what's happening.

914
00:40:42.900 --> 00:40:44.699
Like he is being eaten alive.

915
00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:52.320
The doctor tries to sedate him, but can't, because whatever the

916
00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:59.099
8472 are made of, it rejects any kind of therapeutic

917
00:40:59.099 --> 00:40:59.760
intervention.

918
00:40:59.820 --> 00:41:03.900
And so what you have is you've got the Borg who are a

919
00:41:03.900 --> 00:41:07.260
technological thing that absorbs people, and now you have

920
00:41:07.260 --> 00:41:10.619
something stronger than them that is just purely biological

921
00:41:10.619 --> 00:41:13.619
there's no technology involved at all.

922
00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:16.199
You know, it's like a big space thing.

923
00:41:16.260 --> 00:41:19.619
And it's so weird and so much weirder than nearly anything that

924
00:41:19.619 --> 00:41:21.179
we've ever seen in Star Trek.

925
00:41:21.239 --> 00:41:24.420
And of course, that's the ultimate opposite of the Borg, isn't

926
00:41:24.420 --> 00:41:24.599
it?

927
00:41:24.659 --> 00:41:25.739
A biological threat.

928
00:41:25.800 --> 00:41:27.599
Technological threat.

929
00:41:27.659 --> 00:41:32.820
So, and I think there is a germ of a really good idea that, um

930
00:41:32.820 --> 00:41:38.340
that the Borg, like, that she's basically saying that we should, um

931
00:41:38.340 --> 00:41:40.860
eliminate spaces 8472.

932
00:41:41.099 --> 00:41:43.800
I don't think it goes anywhere though.

933
00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:45.480
No, I don't think so either.

934
00:41:45.539 --> 00:41:48.300
And I think they sort of throw it in the air, don't they?

935
00:41:48.360 --> 00:41:49.440
This is voyageous problem.

936
00:41:49.500 --> 00:41:50.880
Yeah.

937
00:41:50.940 --> 00:41:56.460
And they muddy it with by failing to do the conflict between

938
00:41:56.460 --> 00:42:00.300
Chakose and her properly.

939
00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:03.300
Like they don't really think it through and it doesn't really

940
00:42:03.300 --> 00:42:03.780
work.

941
00:42:03.840 --> 00:42:05.579
And then it just ends.

942
00:42:05.639 --> 00:42:06.659
I like the tension.

943
00:42:06.719 --> 00:42:08.280
Because I always...

944
00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:09.780
There's never enough tension in Voyager.

945
00:42:09.900 --> 00:42:12.360
I do like that that they're putting a bit of conflicts in.

946
00:42:12.420 --> 00:42:16.440
But because we don't ever get to, because Species 8474 is so

947
00:42:16.440 --> 00:42:17.219
unknowable at this point.

948
00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:20.940
We don't understand the threat they are to anybody.

949
00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:24.539
We don't understand, you know, what the balance of power shift

950
00:42:24.539 --> 00:42:26.280
would be if they do wipe them out.

951
00:42:26.340 --> 00:42:28.079
So there's no context to any of it.

952
00:42:28.139 --> 00:42:29.099
It's just an idea.

953
00:42:29.639 --> 00:42:31.440
Yeah, that's true.

954
00:42:31.500 --> 00:42:32.400
That is true.

955
00:42:32.460 --> 00:42:33.900
How do you make that decision?

956
00:42:33.960 --> 00:42:39.179
Like, how can Chakotay be so sure that her action is morally

957
00:42:39.179 --> 00:42:39.539
wrong?

958
00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:42.360
Like, how can you know that?

959
00:42:42.420 --> 00:42:46.019
Then back at her, like how can, how can she be so sure that, you

960
00:42:46.019 --> 00:42:47.760
know, wiping them out is the right thing?

961
00:42:47.880 --> 00:42:49.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

962
00:42:49.860 --> 00:42:53.940
And in a way, like in a way, the way that she operates is

963
00:42:53.940 --> 00:42:57.659
sometimes he's what I have to do to get people home.

964
00:42:57.960 --> 00:42:59.940
Do you know what I mean?

965
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:03.480
Like, I'm going to kill some icky monsters who've already tried to

966
00:43:03.480 --> 00:43:05.219
eat Harry Kim alive.

967
00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:06.360
Do you know what I mean?

968
00:43:06.420 --> 00:43:10.079
Like, I think it's reasonable of her to not spend too much time

969
00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:11.039
interrogating.

970
00:43:11.099 --> 00:43:12.659
This is great too.

971
00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:15.059
And her reaction, the Northwest Passage.

972
00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:19.860
So that that 100 now. 33 bio ships.

973
00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:22.199
Yeah, we get to see what that is.

974
00:43:22.260 --> 00:43:23.699
We saw it on the screen.

975
00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:24.780
It was our salvation.

976
00:43:24.840 --> 00:43:28.380
It's a blank space through Borg space that we can go through

977
00:43:28.380 --> 00:43:32.340
because there's no Borg in it, and now we discover, well, of

978
00:43:32.340 --> 00:43:34.500
course, there's no Borg in it because it's just full of these

979
00:43:34.500 --> 00:43:36.059
bioships.

980
00:43:36.539 --> 00:43:40.079
But you know, like in there, you just saw loads of those

981
00:43:40.079 --> 00:43:43.139
buyerships coming pouring out of fluidic space, you know?

982
00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:44.940
And that's quite an exciting idea.

983
00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:48.480
But like it reminds me of, do you remember in Purgatory Shadow

984
00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:51.000
when the wormhole opens at the end, and the Dominion ships come

985
00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:55.079
pouring out, and then Cliff, it means something to the show that

986
00:43:55.079 --> 00:43:55.800
we're watching it.

987
00:43:55.860 --> 00:43:57.059
It's a massive threat.

988
00:43:57.119 --> 00:43:58.920
Like what the hell does this mean?

989
00:43:59.039 --> 00:44:00.900
Oh, boys, you might be destroyed.

990
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:01.559
Well, okay.

991
00:44:01.619 --> 00:44:08.400
Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, because the DS9 episode is kind of

992
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:12.719
changing the political, the sort of geopolitical, you know, status

993
00:44:12.719 --> 00:44:16.139
quo, and that's not going to happen on Voyager, this is just scary

994
00:44:16.139 --> 00:44:17.760
monsters coming through a thing.

995
00:44:17.820 --> 00:44:19.199
Wow, doesn't that look pretty?

996
00:44:19.260 --> 00:44:22.920
But I did think that actually for a 2nd there where we had that

997
00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:27.119
shot of the ship and then we had the shot of an 8472 in front of a

998
00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:30.119
screen operating a screen from inside a bioship and stuff.

999
00:44:30.179 --> 00:44:34.260
That stuff, that was weird and I liked that, you know.

1000
00:44:34.320 --> 00:44:37.980
I think that the 8472 are pretty... don't do it enough.

1001
00:44:38.460 --> 00:44:38.760
Do they?

1002
00:44:38.820 --> 00:44:39.420
No.

1003
00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:42.059
They don't do it enough. when they do it, it really sticks out.

1004
00:44:42.119 --> 00:44:45.179
Yeah, I mean, the show is just contend to put American actors in

1005
00:44:45.179 --> 00:44:48.900
latex and give them a number on the bow mask scale week after week

1006
00:44:48.900 --> 00:44:49.500
after week.

1007
00:44:49.559 --> 00:44:50.760
Do you know what I mean?

1008
00:44:50.820 --> 00:44:53.039
Like this is...

1009
00:44:53.099 --> 00:44:55.320
Imagine if the Beaumara turned out to be in those ships.

1010
00:44:56.519 --> 00:44:59.940
We said we'd be back and we're back.

1011
00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:05.340
Oh, they were so fucking shit, were they?

1012
00:45:05.579 --> 00:45:07.320
Oh, wait.

1013
00:45:07.380 --> 00:45:08.460
No, that's series four.

1014
00:45:08.519 --> 00:45:09.239
We haven't had them yet.

1015
00:45:09.360 --> 00:45:10.920
We haven't had the bowman yet.

1016
00:45:11.039 --> 00:45:14.340
Nathan, we go from the Bork to the Boma.

1017
00:45:14.340 --> 00:45:15.360
To the Boma.

1018
00:45:15.420 --> 00:45:16.019
Holy crap.

1019
00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:16.619
Wow.

1020
00:45:16.679 --> 00:45:21.300
Amazing But I do like the fact that they constantly come back to

1021
00:45:21.300 --> 00:45:24.539
Jane Way's decision to strand them in the Delta Quadrant

1022
00:45:24.539 --> 00:45:25.920
throughout the series run.

1023
00:45:25.980 --> 00:45:28.920
That's sort of like her, so they do it in night as well.

1024
00:45:28.980 --> 00:45:31.500
Do you remember where she's agonising at night because they're in

1025
00:45:31.500 --> 00:45:32.219
that dark space?

1026
00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:33.179
They do it here.

1027
00:45:33.239 --> 00:45:35.820
And like you said, they bring it up again and end game as well.

1028
00:45:35.940 --> 00:45:37.500
Yeah, yeah.

1029
00:45:37.559 --> 00:45:39.300
We get to re-mitigate it.

1030
00:45:39.360 --> 00:45:41.820
See, this is a beautifully lit scene too.

1031
00:45:41.880 --> 00:45:45.239
And the shot through the window, you know, where the windows are

1032
00:45:45.239 --> 00:45:47.760
made out of kind of slightly warped glass because it's old.

1033
00:45:47.820 --> 00:45:49.800
This is so annoying.

1034
00:45:49.860 --> 00:45:51.780
If they can do practical lighting, this good.

1035
00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:52.800
Yeah.

1036
00:45:52.800 --> 00:45:54.239
Is it just because it takes time?

1037
00:45:54.300 --> 00:45:55.619
I think so.

1038
00:45:55.679 --> 00:45:59.099
Do you remember when Beverly Crusher's fabulous Gothic house in

1039
00:45:59.099 --> 00:46:00.239
Subrosa?

1040
00:46:00.300 --> 00:46:01.619
was full of candles.

1041
00:46:01.679 --> 00:46:03.300
And we said, that looked great as well, you know.

1042
00:46:03.360 --> 00:46:04.199
Yeah.

1043
00:46:04.260 --> 00:46:07.440
Yeah, I mean, there could be more practical light, but I guess it

1044
00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:11.159
does take a while to light and it is difficult.

1045
00:46:11.219 --> 00:46:14.880
Yeah. basically saying, get rid of all that boring overhead light

1046
00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:16.860
in and just shove a load of candles in the sense.

1047
00:46:16.920 --> 00:46:18.480
Yeah, that's right.

1048
00:46:18.539 --> 00:46:19.619
I don't know how that works.

1049
00:46:19.679 --> 00:46:20.699
We'll have a bit of atmosphere.

1050
00:46:21.420 --> 00:46:24.840
So this is strange too, isn't it?

1051
00:46:24.900 --> 00:46:27.420
I'm not quite sure what's happening here.

1052
00:46:30.659 --> 00:46:35.579
Like there's talk of shadows and stuff like that, but I don't know

1053
00:46:35.579 --> 00:46:37.679
what's happening.

1054
00:46:37.739 --> 00:46:43.980
But what I do like is when he suggests, and it works quite well

1055
00:46:43.980 --> 00:46:44.400
doesn't it?

1056
00:46:44.460 --> 00:46:49.860
He suggests that, oh, this world's being created and replaced by

1057
00:46:49.860 --> 00:46:53.519
destroyed worlds in my imagination, you know, that's pretty good

1058
00:46:53.519 --> 00:46:54.840
because that's what's happening here.

1059
00:46:54.900 --> 00:47:02.639
But um, when he suggests praying. that she should pray, because

1060
00:47:02.639 --> 00:47:06.300
and I think that's so good, and her reaction to it is so great

1061
00:47:06.300 --> 00:47:09.420
particularly on an American TV show, when Americans are sort of

1062
00:47:09.420 --> 00:47:15.119
much more religious than other English speaking countries, to have

1063
00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:17.159
her reject that because she's a scientist.

1064
00:47:17.219 --> 00:47:19.860
I just don't think that would work for me and I think it's really

1065
00:47:19.860 --> 00:47:20.159
real.

1066
00:47:20.219 --> 00:47:21.900
I don't know if you remember.

1067
00:47:21.960 --> 00:47:25.679
In that sequence where in that sequence where the Dominion does

1068
00:47:25.679 --> 00:47:28.559
come pouring out of the wormhole, Kira just sort of turns on the

1069
00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:30.300
camera and goes, may the prophets forgive us.

1070
00:47:30.360 --> 00:47:32.159
She does break.

1071
00:47:32.219 --> 00:47:35.760
Yeah, and that's right. and that's the game we as a scientist.

1072
00:47:35.820 --> 00:47:37.139
We can do religion.

1073
00:47:37.260 --> 00:47:41.219
Yeah, yeah, we do do religion in DS9, but not here.

1074
00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:44.039
And I think, you know, it's only human beings.

1075
00:47:44.099 --> 00:47:47.760
It's only like human beings are not religious and other aliens are

1076
00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:48.059
I think.

1077
00:47:49.139 --> 00:47:53.280
Yeah, this where he says, look, you know, I'm a scientist, but

1078
00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:55.559
still sometimes I find myself kneeling in prayer.

1079
00:47:55.679 --> 00:47:59.039
And his plan, I think, is beautiful.

1080
00:47:59.099 --> 00:48:02.880
So he's going to deliver a little bronze statue to the monks and

1081
00:48:02.880 --> 00:48:08.280
he's going to take her with him and suggest going to the chapel.

1082
00:48:08.340 --> 00:48:08.940
I love it.

1083
00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:10.260
I think that's so good.

1084
00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:11.940
And look at her response.

1085
00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:13.079
It's beautiful.

1086
00:48:13.139 --> 00:48:13.800
Look.

1087
00:48:13.860 --> 00:48:16.559
She's not, she doesn't pity him.

1088
00:48:16.619 --> 00:48:17.820
She doesn't patronise him.

1089
00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:22.800
Yeah.

1090
00:48:22.860 --> 00:48:24.179
Yeah, I think it's terrific.

1091
00:48:24.239 --> 00:48:26.400
And so instead she's going to make a deal with the devil.

1092
00:48:27.539 --> 00:48:31.079
Which is, that's the decision that she ultimately makes, isn't

1093
00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:31.260
it?

1094
00:48:31.320 --> 00:48:33.480
She's got to work with the ball.

1095
00:48:33.539 --> 00:48:35.820
And that's a big idea as well.

1096
00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:37.440
Yeah.

1097
00:48:37.500 --> 00:48:38.159
Yeah.

1098
00:48:38.219 --> 00:48:42.780
But again, you know, for us as well, the Borg are a known

1099
00:48:42.780 --> 00:48:43.380
quantity.

1100
00:48:43.440 --> 00:48:50.579
So we've had them, end of series 3 of TNG, end of series 6, we've

1101
00:48:50.579 --> 00:48:51.239
had 1st contact.

1102
00:48:51.300 --> 00:48:54.659
We know the Borg well. at this point.

1103
00:48:54.719 --> 00:48:57.780
And so for us, there are known quantity.

1104
00:48:57.840 --> 00:49:03.599
And I think that they properly cell 8472 as more evil than the

1105
00:49:03.599 --> 00:49:04.679
Borg, don't you?

1106
00:49:04.739 --> 00:49:10.679
Here, they do here, and then we, the next time we see Species 8472

1107
00:49:10.679 --> 00:49:15.059
is in prey, where it's basically like an alien's ripoff, and

1108
00:49:15.059 --> 00:49:17.639
there's a damage.

1109
00:49:17.699 --> 00:49:19.260
Yeah, the hirogen are.

1110
00:49:19.320 --> 00:49:23.400
And then we don't see them again until series 5 and by that point

1111
00:49:23.400 --> 00:49:26.820
we probably should be well out of Species 847 space.

1112
00:49:26.880 --> 00:49:30.300
And they're just on like some fake Starfleet headquarters and they

1113
00:49:30.300 --> 00:49:31.139
want to negotiate.

1114
00:49:31.199 --> 00:49:34.920
And it's basically just writing staff just going, look, we're kind

1115
00:49:34.920 --> 00:49:37.079
of done with this, but we didn't tie it up. let's just do it.

1116
00:49:37.139 --> 00:49:38.579
And it's such a waste.

1117
00:49:38.639 --> 00:49:43.199
It's so typically Voyager to present us with the, you know, the

1118
00:49:43.199 --> 00:49:47.099
big bad and then just go, well, well, and then make it boring from

1119
00:49:47.099 --> 00:49:47.340
that now.

1120
00:49:47.400 --> 00:49:48.599
Yeah, yeah.

1121
00:49:48.659 --> 00:49:49.320
Yeah.

1122
00:49:49.320 --> 00:49:49.920
Yeah.

1123
00:49:49.980 --> 00:49:51.420
You're terrible.

1124
00:49:56.099 --> 00:49:58.260
It's not all boring.

1125
00:49:58.320 --> 00:49:59.340
It's just mostly boring.

1126
00:49:59.460 --> 00:50:04.380
No, but look, and they give Tuvok, the security officer, that line

1127
00:50:04.380 --> 00:50:07.920
what will prevent them from saying yes, we'll do the deal and then

1128
00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:11.699
assimilating us anyway, and she's got an answer and he's doing it

1129
00:50:11.699 --> 00:50:15.539
properly, and there's not conflict, but there's a real proper sort

1130
00:50:15.539 --> 00:50:18.300
of presentation of alternative views.

1131
00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:22.380
It's so much more interesting than her standing up and saying what

1132
00:50:22.380 --> 00:50:23.159
we're going to do.

1133
00:50:23.219 --> 00:50:25.380
Um, yeah.

1134
00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:28.380
Yeah, I think she's, I think she's great.

1135
00:50:28.440 --> 00:50:32.579
I just want to say about the Borg in general, yeah, because I

1136
00:50:32.579 --> 00:50:37.739
think this really kickstarts Voyager's general emasculation and

1137
00:50:37.739 --> 00:50:41.579
embarrassing the Borg, because here they come across again, you

1138
00:50:41.579 --> 00:50:44.820
know, they're not the big bad in the Delta Quadra.

1139
00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:47.880
They're something that they've tried to bully and it's actually

1140
00:50:47.880 --> 00:50:50.219
more powerful than them and has given them a bloody nose.

1141
00:50:50.280 --> 00:50:51.300
Yeah.

1142
00:50:51.300 --> 00:50:54.960
So we've got a sort of a notch down from being the big, big bag

1143
00:50:54.960 --> 00:50:55.860
that they were.

1144
00:50:55.920 --> 00:50:59.880
But then we've got stuff like the ball kids coming in in series

1145
00:50:59.880 --> 00:51:00.599
6.

1146
00:51:00.659 --> 00:51:04.739
You know, and obviously we do 7 of 9 storylines, so that's like

1147
00:51:04.739 --> 00:51:07.019
well, this is proof that a ball person can actually be brought

1148
00:51:07.019 --> 00:51:09.119
back from the brink of being a zombie.

1149
00:51:09.179 --> 00:51:09.960
Yeah.

1150
00:51:09.960 --> 00:51:14.400
And then you've got Unimatrix 0 in series 7 where all along there

1151
00:51:14.400 --> 00:51:18.900
was this sort of rebellion collective, sort of within the

1152
00:51:18.900 --> 00:51:19.739
collective.

1153
00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:21.840
And it's just like it just gets worse and worse.

1154
00:51:21.900 --> 00:51:25.980
The ball becomes so kind of so much less of a threat.

1155
00:51:26.039 --> 00:51:30.420
But by the time we get to endgame, you're just like, oh, to the

1156
00:51:30.420 --> 00:51:34.380
point where in Unimatrix 0, they assimilate Janeway and Chewvok

1157
00:51:34.380 --> 00:51:38.940
and Balana, that's the cliffhanger, but almost Heller.

1158
00:51:39.599 --> 00:51:43.739
They almost tell us that, no, this is just, we're just playing at

1159
00:51:43.739 --> 00:51:44.400
this, right?

1160
00:51:44.460 --> 00:51:46.559
But they sell it as a good thing.

1161
00:51:46.559 --> 00:51:48.539
And then five minutes into the next episode.

1162
00:51:48.599 --> 00:51:50.460
They're like, right, well, we got away with that then.

1163
00:51:50.519 --> 00:51:53.519
You know. like, what happened to the Borg?

1164
00:51:53.579 --> 00:51:58.440
Yeah, fuck for Picard series 2, where they came back sort of scary

1165
00:51:58.440 --> 00:52:02.460
and weird and with that fabulous woman playing the ball queen and

1166
00:52:02.460 --> 00:52:05.940
they were doing sort of psychological mind games with Agnes and

1167
00:52:05.940 --> 00:52:08.460
it's all the stuff that Voyager could have been doing with the

1168
00:52:08.460 --> 00:52:08.880
Borg.

1169
00:52:08.940 --> 00:52:12.179
Instead of sort of ripping away any sense of menace that they

1170
00:52:12.179 --> 00:52:12.360
had.

1171
00:52:12.780 --> 00:52:15.960
Yeah, they weren't careful enough, were they?

1172
00:52:16.019 --> 00:52:20.159
It was, it's not bad that they kept going back to them.

1173
00:52:20.219 --> 00:52:25.019
Um, you know, maybe it starts, though, with descent.

1174
00:52:25.079 --> 00:52:28.980
I mean, we've talked about descent and it really fucks up the Borg

1175
00:52:28.980 --> 00:52:30.960
in a bad way as well and presents...

1176
00:52:30.960 --> 00:52:32.880
Maybe it starts with Hugh Borg.

1177
00:52:32.940 --> 00:52:33.599
Maybe it starts there.

1178
00:52:33.659 --> 00:52:37.739
Yeah, yeah, but I think that's a good episode because I think it's

1179
00:52:37.739 --> 00:52:42.000
a very Star Trekie episode where you take the weirdest, you know

1180
00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:46.619
most terrifying enemy we have and find some connection with it.

1181
00:52:46.739 --> 00:52:50.400
And I was thinking about that today, how great that is and how

1182
00:52:50.400 --> 00:52:55.079
descent ruins it, where, you know, they're going to send that

1183
00:52:55.079 --> 00:52:59.880
shape that's going to make the computers go crazy, but instead

1184
00:52:59.880 --> 00:53:01.199
they decide not to do that.

1185
00:53:01.260 --> 00:53:05.579
They just send Hugh back with an idea about what individuality

1186
00:53:05.579 --> 00:53:06.119
is.

1187
00:53:06.119 --> 00:53:08.340
And they hope that will spread.

1188
00:53:08.400 --> 00:53:11.820
And then, of course, dissent ruins it by saying, well, yes, it

1189
00:53:11.820 --> 00:53:17.039
spreads and it makes them all vulnerable to, you know, Jim Jones, a

1190
00:53:16.199 --> 00:53:19.980
k.a. law coming along and turning them into a cult.

1191
00:53:21.599 --> 00:53:26.099
But it's so weird because it didn't have to go down that way with

1192
00:53:26.099 --> 00:53:27.179
the ballwalk, I don't think.

1193
00:53:27.239 --> 00:53:30.480
Like, you know, I'm going to skip back to DS9 for a 2nd again and

1194
00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:34.800
say we had 5 seasons with the Dominion, where we kept going back

1195
00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:38.820
to the Dominion, and all they did was get, you know, more camp and

1196
00:53:38.820 --> 00:53:42.719
fabulous and amazing with every season that passed, you know?

1197
00:53:42.780 --> 00:53:46.619
Well, in fact, I think what's really good about the Dominion and

1198
00:53:46.619 --> 00:53:50.579
what they do very skilfully is they have entertaining scenes where

1199
00:53:50.579 --> 00:53:54.960
like Damar and Wayoon and and do kind of be in camp and silly and

1200
00:53:54.960 --> 00:53:58.860
those seeds are kind of played for laughs a bit.

1201
00:53:58.920 --> 00:53:59.820
Do you know what I mean?

1202
00:53:59.940 --> 00:54:01.559
Like they're played knowingly in a way.

1203
00:54:01.619 --> 00:54:04.500
But the Dominion is a credible threat the whole time.

1204
00:54:04.559 --> 00:54:07.500
It doesn't undermine the Dominion as a threat in any way.

1205
00:54:07.559 --> 00:54:09.719
And like maybe the intro...

1206
00:54:09.719 --> 00:54:12.719
Because we're told constantly that they're murdering 1000000s of

1207
00:54:12.719 --> 00:54:12.840
people.

1208
00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:14.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1209
00:54:14.099 --> 00:54:16.619
Yeah, space peril.

1210
00:54:16.679 --> 00:54:22.860
But the, like, even the introduction of the Borg queen, um, in 1st

1211
00:54:22.860 --> 00:54:26.340
contact doesn't diminish them, I don't think, even though it

1212
00:54:26.340 --> 00:54:29.280
humanises them, even though we lose a little bit of the

1213
00:54:29.280 --> 00:54:33.900
incomprehensibility of the Borg, uh, which is a shame, but I think

1214
00:54:33.900 --> 00:54:37.440
that's really good, all of that Borg queen stuff in 1st contact is

1215
00:54:37.440 --> 00:54:37.860
very good.

1216
00:54:38.219 --> 00:54:42.179
But I just think that they're not careful enough.

1217
00:54:42.239 --> 00:54:45.179
It's not that they go back to the Borg well too frequently.

1218
00:54:45.239 --> 00:54:47.400
It's that they do it carelessly.

1219
00:54:47.460 --> 00:54:51.480
And here I think they get away with it because just the sheer

1220
00:54:51.480 --> 00:54:55.679
astonishment of how weird this situation is, you know, works

1221
00:54:55.679 --> 00:54:56.159
really well.

1222
00:54:56.219 --> 00:54:57.239
Look at that.

1223
00:54:57.300 --> 00:54:59.519
The annoying thing as well is all the different ways that they

1224
00:54:59.519 --> 00:55:00.059
explore.

1225
00:55:00.119 --> 00:55:00.719
Yeah, that's great.

1226
00:55:00.780 --> 00:55:03.000
Always just tidy compared to that queue.

1227
00:55:03.059 --> 00:55:04.679
I think it's big.

1228
00:55:04.739 --> 00:55:06.059
I think speaking of the enterprise was.

1229
00:55:06.179 --> 00:55:09.840
All those, all those different ways that they try and explore the

1230
00:55:09.840 --> 00:55:11.460
board, Unimatrix 0, the kids.

1231
00:55:11.519 --> 00:55:14.340
I don't fundamentally that they're not terrible ideas.

1232
00:55:15.179 --> 00:55:19.440
But in succession, It just leaves the ball impotent.

1233
00:55:19.980 --> 00:55:21.360
Yeah.

1234
00:55:21.420 --> 00:55:24.480
And then they try and sell them as that big threat in the last

1235
00:55:24.480 --> 00:55:24.960
episode.

1236
00:55:25.139 --> 00:55:26.639
Yeah.

1237
00:55:26.699 --> 00:55:30.719
Yeah, I think the problem is, I think the problem is letting, you

1238
00:55:30.719 --> 00:55:33.659
know, becoming too comfortable with them, like getting to know

1239
00:55:33.659 --> 00:55:35.699
them too well, I think.

1240
00:55:35.760 --> 00:55:37.320
Do you know what it is, I knew?

1241
00:55:37.380 --> 00:55:38.639
You know what the Doctor Who parallel is?

1242
00:55:38.699 --> 00:55:40.019
It's the Weeping Angels effect.

1243
00:55:40.079 --> 00:55:44.219
Yeah, every time you bring them back. diminishing returns.

1244
00:55:44.280 --> 00:55:45.659
Pretty much, yeah.

1245
00:55:45.719 --> 00:55:46.860
Pretty much.

1246
00:55:46.920 --> 00:55:47.400
Yeah.

1247
00:55:47.460 --> 00:55:49.920
Although, it doesn't quite work.

1248
00:55:49.980 --> 00:55:50.639
Yeah.

1249
00:55:50.699 --> 00:55:53.219
Nathan, you have 10 seconds to comply.

1250
00:55:54.300 --> 00:55:56.579
She's so good.

1251
00:55:56.699 --> 00:55:59.579
She's threatening to delete the doctor at this point.

1252
00:56:00.420 --> 00:56:02.579
So here she is.

1253
00:56:02.760 --> 00:56:06.059
This is so bad, isn't it?

1254
00:56:06.119 --> 00:56:07.380
It's so low effort.

1255
00:56:07.440 --> 00:56:11.699
And you can't see this listeners, but Nathan has this very effect

1256
00:56:11.699 --> 00:56:13.739
shot of the ball cube behind him right now.

1257
00:56:13.860 --> 00:56:14.519
Yep.

1258
00:56:14.519 --> 00:56:16.860
I'm actually, I hate doing.

1259
00:56:16.920 --> 00:56:23.760
You look much more am I mad at more convincingly by the Zoom

1260
00:56:23.760 --> 00:56:27.480
background image just projects me seamlessly onto this

1261
00:56:27.480 --> 00:56:27.840
background?

1262
00:56:27.900 --> 00:56:30.480
I think it's very...

1263
00:56:30.480 --> 00:56:33.000
You have recorded from a ball cube for this episode.

1264
00:56:33.059 --> 00:56:34.619
That's right.

1265
00:56:34.679 --> 00:56:37.139
It's so fucking cheap, isn't it?

1266
00:56:37.199 --> 00:56:38.940
Like, they can't even construct.

1267
00:56:39.000 --> 00:56:42.659
I do like that shot where you just see the 2 little drones.

1268
00:56:42.719 --> 00:56:43.980
Did you see them walking across us?

1269
00:56:44.099 --> 00:56:46.260
Yeah, yeah.

1270
00:56:46.260 --> 00:56:47.820
No, I just think it's shit.

1271
00:56:47.940 --> 00:56:50.639
Like, what are they like, what?

1272
00:56:50.699 --> 00:56:52.500
You know, I don't know.

1273
00:56:52.559 --> 00:56:54.360
Maybe it's the best they could do at the time.

1274
00:56:55.139 --> 00:56:58.260
No, but wouldn't a practical set have been better?

1275
00:56:58.320 --> 00:57:01.380
Like, why are they, why is she just projected against a thing?

1276
00:57:01.500 --> 00:57:02.760
money, isn't it?

1277
00:57:02.820 --> 00:57:04.440
Go back and watch Q Who?

1278
00:57:04.500 --> 00:57:06.960
And the shot where Rikers.

1279
00:57:07.019 --> 00:57:08.099
It's a match shot.

1280
00:57:08.159 --> 00:57:10.559
It's a painted shot and it looks way better than this.

1281
00:57:10.619 --> 00:57:11.820
Than that.

1282
00:57:11.820 --> 00:57:13.380
They've got a practical set.

1283
00:57:13.380 --> 00:57:15.719
It's really literally in front of it. yeah.

1284
00:57:15.780 --> 00:57:18.960
And then it sort of pulls away into a match shot.

1285
00:57:19.019 --> 00:57:20.340
Oh, this is terrific.

1286
00:57:20.400 --> 00:57:22.380
Can I say to you one thing, isn't it?

1287
00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:23.159
blow up, you ready?

1288
00:57:23.219 --> 00:57:24.659
That that cube.

1289
00:57:24.719 --> 00:57:30.599
I'm just going to say... da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da

1290
00:57:30.599 --> 00:57:31.139
da, da.

1291
00:57:31.139 --> 00:57:33.059
Yeah, real good. music is great.

1292
00:57:33.119 --> 00:57:34.079
Yeah, yeah.

1293
00:57:34.139 --> 00:57:34.739
Yeah.

1294
00:57:34.800 --> 00:57:36.719
Another... another win.

1295
00:57:36.900 --> 00:57:41.400
I think in terms of building up to a cliffhanger, this is very

1296
00:57:41.400 --> 00:57:41.940
well done.

1297
00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:44.460
You've got the ships pouring out.

1298
00:57:44.579 --> 00:57:45.480
Cliffhanger.

1299
00:57:45.539 --> 00:57:48.119
They're doing weird stuff with their electricity beams.

1300
00:57:48.179 --> 00:57:49.380
It's so weird.

1301
00:57:49.380 --> 00:57:51.719
Janeway's trapped on the ball queue. ever seen.

1302
00:57:51.780 --> 00:57:54.000
We're destroying a whole planet.

1303
00:57:54.059 --> 00:57:56.400
Like it's so huge.

1304
00:57:56.460 --> 00:57:59.099
And look, look at that.

1305
00:57:59.159 --> 00:58:02.460
The, the, um, the, like lava coming off the planet hits the ball

1306
00:58:02.460 --> 00:58:03.119
cube.

1307
00:58:03.179 --> 00:58:06.179
I can almost see Brian Fuller watching this going.

1308
00:58:06.239 --> 00:58:07.500
I can make Star Trek like this.

1309
00:58:07.559 --> 00:58:09.900
You know, visually impressive one day.

1310
00:58:10.199 --> 00:58:11.760
That's great.

1311
00:58:11.820 --> 00:58:14.940
And look, the, like, the planet blows up.

1312
00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:16.440
Voyagers being towed away.

1313
00:58:16.500 --> 00:58:17.940
Janeway's on the board.

1314
00:58:17.940 --> 00:58:18.539
Yeah, yeah.

1315
00:58:19.260 --> 00:58:21.539
It's all up for grabs here.

1316
00:58:21.840 --> 00:58:25.320
But it's also just a huge giant cartoon.

1317
00:58:25.380 --> 00:58:31.679
You know, we were making fun of making fun of Babylon 5.

1318
00:58:31.980 --> 00:58:35.159
But that looks so great because it is so weird.

1319
00:58:35.219 --> 00:58:37.559
And, you know, those bioships.

1320
00:58:37.619 --> 00:58:38.579
Do they look like the shadows?

1321
00:58:38.639 --> 00:58:42.300
I don't even, like I said, I've never heard of Babylon 5.

1322
00:58:42.539 --> 00:58:45.480
But, um, you know, the bioships are weird.

1323
00:58:45.539 --> 00:58:49.139
The way they behave is weird, all of that brown and strange

1324
00:58:49.139 --> 00:58:50.699
colours and stuff. really good.

1325
00:58:50.760 --> 00:58:54.900
There was criticisms because there are the Vorlons in Babylon 5

1326
00:58:54.900 --> 00:58:58.619
and they do look a bit like the bio ships and they do exist in

1327
00:58:58.619 --> 00:58:59.639
fluidic space.

1328
00:58:59.699 --> 00:59:01.440
Right, okay.

1329
00:59:01.500 --> 00:59:04.619
I think Star Trek, I don't think Star Trek is above looking over

1330
00:59:04.619 --> 00:59:06.780
its shoulder, you know, and going, well, we could do that, but

1331
00:59:06.780 --> 00:59:07.380
make it look better.

1332
00:59:07.440 --> 00:59:08.639
We could steal that.

1333
00:59:08.699 --> 00:59:09.119
Yeah.

1334
00:59:10.559 --> 00:59:13.260
But it's exciting, isn't it?

1335
00:59:13.320 --> 00:59:15.119
It's an exciting cliff, eh?

1336
00:59:15.179 --> 00:59:15.480
Oh, yeah.

1337
00:59:15.539 --> 00:59:17.579
I think it is a really good cliffhanger.

1338
00:59:17.639 --> 00:59:20.340
And I think one of the things that's unusual about it is that it's

1339
00:59:20.340 --> 00:59:24.420
a cliffhanger that doesn't, because what's the best of both worlds

1340
00:59:24.420 --> 00:59:25.019
Cliffhanger?

1341
00:59:25.079 --> 00:59:31.260
It's not a giant mental, like a giant gonzo special effect shot?

1342
00:59:31.320 --> 00:59:34.079
Is Riker saying fire on his boss?

1343
00:59:34.139 --> 00:59:39.780
You know, the ship that, you know, in response to Laquitas. no win

1344
00:59:39.780 --> 00:59:40.739
situation, isn't it?

1345
00:59:40.800 --> 00:59:42.119
That's what I love about that.

1346
00:59:42.179 --> 00:59:44.820
I remember watching it going, how, how?

1347
00:59:44.880 --> 00:59:46.320
How are they going to get out of this?

1348
00:59:46.380 --> 00:59:47.940
I was sort of screaming at the screen.

1349
00:59:48.000 --> 00:59:50.760
Whereas when I watched this, I remember I was just going, what's

1350
00:59:50.760 --> 00:59:51.119
going on?

1351
00:59:51.179 --> 00:59:52.500
Where the hell is this?

1352
00:59:52.559 --> 00:59:54.420
It is very different.

1353
00:59:54.480 --> 00:59:57.360
And the thing that's super weird is that it doesn't seem to have a

1354
00:59:57.360 --> 01:00:02.099
characters, but for once I don't care because it's so strange. and

1355
01:00:02.099 --> 01:00:04.320
so different from anything that we've ever seen.

1356
01:00:04.380 --> 01:00:06.059
That's exciting to me, I think.

1357
01:00:06.119 --> 01:00:09.179
Is this the best, Voyager?

1358
01:00:09.239 --> 01:00:10.500
season finale.

1359
01:00:10.800 --> 01:00:13.860
I don't know them well enough.

1360
01:00:13.920 --> 01:00:16.860
So I'm not quite sure.

1361
01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:19.739
People are going to think I'm mad because you know what my

1362
01:00:19.739 --> 01:00:20.280
favourite is.

1363
01:00:20.340 --> 01:00:22.320
My favourite is basics.

1364
01:00:22.380 --> 01:00:24.000
No, based on action.

1365
01:00:24.119 --> 01:00:28.860
Because you've got holding the baby on the Voyager Bridge as she

1366
01:00:28.860 --> 01:00:30.900
basically kicks them all off onto a planet.

1367
01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:34.920
And I know people hate the Kazon, but it really builds to like an

1368
01:00:34.920 --> 01:00:37.320
epic ending where how the hell is it?

1369
01:00:37.320 --> 01:00:40.500
Like when DS9 kicked everyone off the station at the end of five.

1370
01:00:40.559 --> 01:00:43.559
It's like a fundament. you feel like, well, the show's changed

1371
01:00:43.559 --> 01:00:43.980
forever.

1372
01:00:44.039 --> 01:00:45.059
Well, no, it hasn't.

1373
01:00:45.119 --> 01:00:46.079
Yeah, the show's under threat.

1374
01:00:46.139 --> 01:00:47.219
Like it's called Voyager.

1375
01:00:47.280 --> 01:00:49.619
How do we even use the same title sequence from now on?

1376
01:00:49.679 --> 01:00:55.380
So, like, it's a fundamental threat to the show as an entity, and

1377
01:00:55.380 --> 01:00:57.539
then we don't get to watch it if it's not there.

1378
01:00:57.599 --> 01:01:00.239
So I think that's a really good cliffhanger.

1379
01:01:00.300 --> 01:01:03.239
Um, I, I don't know.

1380
01:01:03.300 --> 01:01:08.280
Obviously that Unimatrix 0 cliffhanger with the 3 assimilated crew

1381
01:01:08.280 --> 01:01:11.219
members is pathetic and looks stupid.

1382
01:01:11.280 --> 01:01:12.900
Like it's a bad final shot.

1383
01:01:12.960 --> 01:01:17.400
Equinox has a, it has a terrible cliff.

1384
01:01:17.400 --> 01:01:17.880
Interesting.

1385
01:01:17.880 --> 01:01:19.619
But it's a really good episode.

1386
01:01:19.679 --> 01:01:22.739
I think it's probably a better episode than this because having

1387
01:01:22.739 --> 01:01:26.159
that contrast with another ship, there's been in exactly the same

1388
01:01:26.159 --> 01:01:29.159
situation, but made all the wrong moves and it's falling apart and

1389
01:01:29.159 --> 01:01:31.920
you think you're looking at that ship going, well, we could be

1390
01:01:31.920 --> 01:01:32.400
watching that.

1391
01:01:32.460 --> 01:01:35.099
That sounds much more interesting than Voyager.

1392
01:01:35.460 --> 01:01:41.159
Is hope and fear is that one where...

1393
01:01:41.159 --> 01:01:41.880
Yeah, I know.

1394
01:01:41.880 --> 01:01:43.320
I don't know.

1395
01:01:43.380 --> 01:01:43.980
I don't know.

1396
01:01:44.039 --> 01:01:46.380
I think it bookends this season well.

1397
01:01:46.440 --> 01:01:49.199
And one of the things it does is it goes back and examines

1398
01:01:49.199 --> 01:01:53.820
Janeway's decision to team up with the Borg.

1399
01:01:53.880 --> 01:01:56.880
And it has consequences for someone and that's a strange

1400
01:01:56.880 --> 01:01:59.820
interesting alien who seems quite likeable and you've got a lovely

1401
01:01:59.820 --> 01:02:02.340
new set. you know, and all of that sort of thing.

1402
01:02:02.400 --> 01:02:03.840
You know, I don't mind.

1403
01:02:03.900 --> 01:02:05.219
So plotting, though.

1404
01:02:05.280 --> 01:02:08.880
It's like compared to this, which feels like it's got a bit of

1405
01:02:08.880 --> 01:02:09.300
oomph.

1406
01:02:09.539 --> 01:02:10.920
It really does plod that one.

1407
01:02:10.980 --> 01:02:14.400
Yeah, but I think their decision instead of doing a big giant

1408
01:02:14.400 --> 01:02:17.820
cliffhanger to do a slightly quieter ending that's a little bit

1409
01:02:17.820 --> 01:02:18.599
introspective.

1410
01:02:18.659 --> 01:02:24.840
I think that's not a bad call, and maybe it doesn't come off, and

1411
01:02:24.840 --> 01:02:27.599
you know, then the following year they have to do a big dumb

1412
01:02:27.599 --> 01:02:29.880
cliffhanger, and then the following year they have to do an even

1413
01:02:29.880 --> 01:02:30.360
worse one.

1414
01:02:30.420 --> 01:02:33.300
But I hope it's in the right place.

1415
01:02:33.360 --> 01:02:34.739
It's in the right place.

1416
01:02:34.800 --> 01:02:35.760
I just get very bored.

1417
01:02:35.820 --> 01:02:37.679
Bored in a way that I'm not watching this.

1418
01:02:37.739 --> 01:02:38.760
No.

1419
01:02:38.820 --> 01:02:39.719
Yeah, that's true.

1420
01:02:39.780 --> 01:02:40.800
This is for the 1st time ever.

1421
01:02:40.860 --> 01:02:43.500
And I'm going to say this about part 2 as well.

1422
01:02:43.559 --> 01:02:45.840
It's one of the things I love about part 2 is at the end, they

1423
01:02:45.840 --> 01:02:46.739
don't reset.

1424
01:02:46.800 --> 01:02:48.000
We're still in Borg space.

1425
01:02:48.059 --> 01:02:50.940
So just for a couple of episodes.

1426
01:02:51.000 --> 01:02:52.260
Voyager dares to be.

1427
01:02:52.380 --> 01:02:54.599
No, but it's three, isn't it?

1428
01:02:54.659 --> 01:02:58.320
It's Scorpion, Scorpion part 2 and the Gift for 3 episodes.

1429
01:02:58.380 --> 01:03:01.019
It's daring to say we're shifting the status quo.

1430
01:03:01.139 --> 01:03:02.820
We're gonna do something a bit more dynamic.

1431
01:03:03.179 --> 01:03:07.559
It's a peak. a little peek into a window of what Voyager could

1432
01:03:07.559 --> 01:03:07.860
have been.

1433
01:03:07.920 --> 01:03:08.699
Yeah.

1434
01:03:08.699 --> 01:03:12.599
Do you not think it's very interesting that the creators of both

1435
01:03:12.599 --> 01:03:18.840
Deep Space 9 and Voyager at the end of series 3 said this show

1436
01:03:18.840 --> 01:03:22.079
needs a kick out the arse and we have got to change things?

1437
01:03:22.139 --> 01:03:27.059
And I would probably say with DS9, they managed to create an

1438
01:03:27.059 --> 01:03:30.119
entire season that up the ante considerably.

1439
01:03:30.179 --> 01:03:34.500
I think with Voyager, they manage 3 episodes, but you know, props

1440
01:03:34.500 --> 01:03:34.800
for that.

1441
01:03:35.280 --> 01:03:37.679
So I'll count it in then.

1442
01:03:37.739 --> 01:03:43.199
Let's go Okay, 5, 4, 32, one, and we're off.

1443
01:03:43.860 --> 01:03:45.300
Oh.

1444
01:03:45.599 --> 01:03:48.840
Okay, last time on Star Trek Voyager.

1445
01:03:48.900 --> 01:03:52.619
Oh, do we, we don't get the Think Good Thoughts line, which is a

1446
01:03:52.619 --> 01:03:52.920
shame.

1447
01:03:52.980 --> 01:03:55.739
Um, Yeah.

1448
01:03:55.800 --> 01:03:56.639
Yeah.

1449
01:03:57.000 --> 01:04:00.239
I think this falls to pieces.

1450
01:04:00.300 --> 01:04:01.619
You think it's the director?

1451
01:04:01.679 --> 01:04:06.300
I think I could feel a definite shift in the direction between

1452
01:04:06.300 --> 01:04:07.980
episode one and episode two.

1453
01:04:08.039 --> 01:04:10.500
Suddenly, and I know you weren't that impressed with that

1454
01:04:10.500 --> 01:04:11.940
exploration of the ball ship.

1455
01:04:12.000 --> 01:04:14.579
But there was some attempt to do moody lighting and things like

1456
01:04:14.579 --> 01:04:14.760
that.

1457
01:04:14.820 --> 01:04:16.500
You watch the Borg, ship scenes.

1458
01:04:16.559 --> 01:04:19.199
I know they're just extended dialogue scenes in this episode.

1459
01:04:19.320 --> 01:04:22.619
So they're not going for suspense, but it's very flat sort of

1460
01:04:22.619 --> 01:04:23.699
green lighting.

1461
01:04:23.760 --> 01:04:26.280
Oh no, we're back to that dread.

1462
01:04:26.340 --> 01:04:27.539
Look, we're at the beginning of the season.

1463
01:04:27.599 --> 01:04:28.139
You got some money.

1464
01:04:28.199 --> 01:04:31.079
CSOJ went into a better backdrop.

1465
01:04:31.920 --> 01:04:33.480
Come on.

1466
01:04:33.659 --> 01:04:36.719
Oh, that looks even worse than it did last year.

1467
01:04:39.659 --> 01:04:41.579
Dear, oh dear.

1468
01:04:41.699 --> 01:04:43.559
Yeah, so okay.

1469
01:04:43.619 --> 01:04:49.860
I think in, in story terms, I think there isn't, there isn't

1470
01:04:49.860 --> 01:04:52.679
attempt to sort of explore the conflict between Jane Weird

1471
01:04:52.679 --> 01:04:56.099
Chakotay here because Chakotay disobeys her, doesn't he?

1472
01:04:56.579 --> 01:04:58.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1473
01:04:58.860 --> 01:05:04.260
But I don't buy why he does that.

1474
01:05:04.320 --> 01:05:06.480
I don't know why he disobeys her.

1475
01:05:06.539 --> 01:05:08.280
For the drama, Nathan.

1476
01:05:08.340 --> 01:05:10.199
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1477
01:05:10.260 --> 01:05:13.019
But so he doesn't have a good character motivation for it.

1478
01:05:13.139 --> 01:05:21.960
Um, so, like, actually, I think that her on the screen with the

1479
01:05:21.960 --> 01:05:24.539
Borg thing in the background is better than last.

1480
01:05:24.599 --> 01:05:26.400
It's still pretty bad though.

1481
01:05:26.579 --> 01:05:29.940
Yeah, but I do think it is better than the last episode.

1482
01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:31.920
Uh, yeah.

1483
01:05:31.980 --> 01:05:34.440
Yeah, I think, I don't know what it is.

1484
01:05:34.500 --> 01:05:36.659
They closer up on that computer thing.

1485
01:05:36.719 --> 01:05:38.579
It is annoying that they do this, you know.

1486
01:05:38.639 --> 01:05:42.780
They left us in a, you know, an impossible situation full of

1487
01:05:42.780 --> 01:05:46.679
danger, and anything could happen, and then Jemma just pops up and

1488
01:05:46.679 --> 01:05:50.280
goes, well, I've sorted that out now, you know, we're all okay.

1489
01:05:51.420 --> 01:05:54.179
Some might say that's anticlimactic.

1490
01:05:54.300 --> 01:05:58.260
Well, except that, you know, all that requires us is to

1491
01:05:58.260 --> 01:06:00.599
reinterpret what we saw at the end of the last episode.

1492
01:06:00.659 --> 01:06:05.159
So what we saw at the end of the last episode was the was Voyager

1493
01:06:05.159 --> 01:06:07.559
being dragged away by the cube.

1494
01:06:07.619 --> 01:06:10.619
Yeah, out of harm's way.

1495
01:06:10.679 --> 01:06:13.920
Um, you know, after a Borg planet was destroyed.

1496
01:06:14.460 --> 01:06:18.719
And now the episode, this episode's about something different.

1497
01:06:18.780 --> 01:06:23.340
This episode's now about the conflict between Janeway and

1498
01:06:23.340 --> 01:06:26.039
Jakotay.

1499
01:06:26.099 --> 01:06:30.059
And so it's already been established that the Chakose is a bit

1500
01:06:30.059 --> 01:06:31.800
nervous about this deal.

1501
01:06:31.920 --> 01:06:37.980
Yeah, but I don't understand why the moment he's in charge, he

1502
01:06:37.980 --> 01:06:38.880
disobeys her.

1503
01:06:38.940 --> 01:06:43.860
And I think that's disloyal into a bad core.

1504
01:06:43.980 --> 01:06:49.019
Best of both worlds, part 2 where Riker spends ages agonising.

1505
01:06:49.079 --> 01:06:52.380
And there's that fabulous scene with Gynon, where she goes, well

1506
01:06:52.380 --> 01:06:53.639
the card's gone.

1507
01:06:53.699 --> 01:06:54.840
I've accepted he's gone.

1508
01:06:54.900 --> 01:06:56.579
You've got to accept he's gone.

1509
01:06:56.639 --> 01:06:58.800
But it's sort of like half an episode before he can actually do

1510
01:06:58.800 --> 01:07:02.099
anything because because he respects himself. you're right.

1511
01:07:02.159 --> 01:07:04.800
Chakotay immediately just goes, well, that's not what I would do.

1512
01:07:04.860 --> 01:07:06.000
She says, all right, she's asleep.

1513
01:07:06.059 --> 01:07:07.079
I'm going to go and do the thing.

1514
01:07:07.139 --> 01:07:09.840
And it's just like she's like, she's unconscious.

1515
01:07:09.900 --> 01:07:11.159
She's sort of injured and stuff.

1516
01:07:11.219 --> 01:07:14.760
I don't know why he thinks it's okay to do that.

1517
01:07:14.820 --> 01:07:21.119
And I don't like, you know, we see people disobey their superior

1518
01:07:21.119 --> 01:07:22.800
offices and stuff on Voyager all the time.

1519
01:07:22.860 --> 01:07:24.659
It happened in Picard season three.

1520
01:07:24.719 --> 01:07:28.980
You know, that's not the problem. from a character point of view

1521
01:07:28.980 --> 01:07:30.179
or from his viewpoint.

1522
01:07:30.239 --> 01:07:34.320
I don't know why he does it. why he has so little faith in the

1523
01:07:34.320 --> 01:07:34.500
deal.

1524
01:07:34.559 --> 01:07:37.440
I don't remember if you remember, it's the very thing why Ron

1525
01:07:37.440 --> 01:07:40.380
Moore stepped onto Voyager and then stepped off again straight

1526
01:07:40.380 --> 01:07:45.239
away because the 1st episode he got was Equinox 2 where Janeway

1527
01:07:45.239 --> 01:07:49.500
goes on this mad manhunt after ransom to the point where she's

1528
01:07:49.500 --> 01:07:51.960
threatening to suck people out of airlocks and things like this

1529
01:07:51.960 --> 01:07:53.159
and torturing people.

1530
01:07:53.219 --> 01:07:55.320
And he's like why is she doing this?

1531
01:07:55.380 --> 01:07:58.260
And they're all going, well, you know, there's a really exciting

1532
01:07:58.260 --> 01:07:58.619
scene.

1533
01:07:58.679 --> 01:07:59.880
Exciting.

1534
01:07:59.940 --> 01:08:02.400
Why, what's her motivation?

1535
01:08:02.460 --> 01:08:05.340
And he's like, oh, you guys, I just can't get on board with that.

1536
01:08:05.400 --> 01:08:08.820
Well, look, can I regale you with a quote from director Winrich

1537
01:08:08.820 --> 01:08:09.659
Cobb?

1538
01:08:09.719 --> 01:08:10.679
Is that how you say it, Colby?

1539
01:08:10.739 --> 01:08:13.320
Oh, this is, yeah, Winrick.

1540
01:08:13.380 --> 01:08:14.340
Rick, Rick Coleman.

1541
01:08:14.639 --> 01:08:17.579
The last time we saw him, he was directing the siege of AR 558.

1542
01:08:17.819 --> 01:08:20.399
And he directed all good things, I think.

1543
01:08:20.460 --> 01:08:21.300
He did?

1544
01:08:21.359 --> 01:08:21.840
Yes, he did.

1545
01:08:21.960 --> 01:08:23.640
He gets some big episodes.

1546
01:08:23.699 --> 01:08:28.680
So what he says about the Jane Wedge Kote conflict is, I pushed

1547
01:08:28.680 --> 01:08:31.260
for it because I wanted to explore the relationship between a

1548
01:08:31.260 --> 01:08:35.279
disabled commander and her 2nd in command and the military

1549
01:08:35.279 --> 01:08:38.640
perspective on what you would do if your 2nd in line disagrees

1550
01:08:38.640 --> 01:08:41.579
with the 1st in line and the 1st in line is out.

1551
01:08:41.939 --> 01:08:44.699
Though the orders she left were very clear.

1552
01:08:44.760 --> 01:08:48.359
We didn't result with a happy ending and they don't just say, well

1553
01:08:48.359 --> 01:08:49.500
our friendship has to survive.

1554
01:08:49.560 --> 01:08:52.859
I wanted a real dressing down and I wanted to make sure that

1555
01:08:52.859 --> 01:08:56.279
everybody knew that what Chakotay did was a court-martial

1556
01:08:56.279 --> 01:08:56.819
offence.

1557
01:08:56.939 --> 01:09:01.020
I never got that far, but actress Kate Mulgrew and I kept pushing

1558
01:09:01.020 --> 01:09:05.039
Brannan Bragger on the idea that we had to show a conflict and

1559
01:09:05.039 --> 01:09:06.960
that conflicts don't have to be resolved.

1560
01:09:07.079 --> 01:09:08.460
Yeah.

1561
01:09:08.460 --> 01:09:12.239
It looks like the actors and the director understood the drama

1562
01:09:12.239 --> 01:09:13.739
better than the writer.

1563
01:09:14.039 --> 01:09:18.840
Yeah, and in fact, what they do, what they do, the reason that

1564
01:09:18.840 --> 01:09:26.640
they throw it away is they say, um, you know, 7 said that our

1565
01:09:26.640 --> 01:09:29.880
conflict would be our downfall, the fact that we have conflict and

1566
01:09:29.880 --> 01:09:33.119
that we all have to have our own opinions and stuff, that's a

1567
01:09:33.119 --> 01:09:39.659
weakness, uh, and, um, we need to show her that in fact, that's

1568
01:09:39.659 --> 01:09:40.319
our strength.

1569
01:09:40.380 --> 01:09:43.800
But it just doesn't land.

1570
01:09:43.859 --> 01:09:48.060
And I'm kind of happy, like one of the things that I like in drama

1571
01:09:48.060 --> 01:09:53.640
is when a character forgives another character, without making

1572
01:09:53.640 --> 01:09:56.699
them abase themselves, do you know what I mean, without

1573
01:09:56.699 --> 01:10:01.739
humiliating them, without requiring them to apologise, someone

1574
01:10:01.739 --> 01:10:04.859
loves someone enough to just forgive them and let it go.

1575
01:10:04.920 --> 01:10:06.539
But we don't get that here either.

1576
01:10:06.600 --> 01:10:07.739
They just kind of bury it.

1577
01:10:07.800 --> 01:10:11.640
Do you remember when Odo betrays Kira in behind the lines?

1578
01:10:11.699 --> 01:10:14.579
Do you remember, he's off having it off with a female changeling

1579
01:10:14.579 --> 01:10:16.619
whilst they're trying to stable the station?

1580
01:10:16.619 --> 01:10:19.619
And she says to her in the next episode, you know, oh, no, we are

1581
01:10:19.619 --> 01:10:20.819
way past sorry.

1582
01:10:20.880 --> 01:10:24.000
And that Dominion little arc ends.

1583
01:10:24.119 --> 01:10:26.220
They've got the station back, but they've still got this

1584
01:10:26.220 --> 01:10:27.239
unresolved tension.

1585
01:10:27.300 --> 01:10:30.479
Then it's the Daxel War wedding episode and Kira and Odo.

1586
01:10:30.600 --> 01:10:32.279
And they just, they go into a cupboard.

1587
01:10:33.239 --> 01:10:34.800
No, they go into a cupboard.

1588
01:10:34.859 --> 01:10:38.159
You're in the pie and then Dax can hear them talking and she says

1589
01:10:38.159 --> 01:10:39.420
oh, what are you doing in there?

1590
01:10:39.479 --> 01:10:40.260
We've just been talking.

1591
01:10:40.319 --> 01:10:40.979
We're all right now.

1592
01:10:41.039 --> 01:10:42.119
And they come out.

1593
01:10:43.979 --> 01:10:46.020
That's how you do it.

1594
01:10:46.439 --> 01:10:50.640
Yeah, yeah, don't make us watch it is the important thing.

1595
01:10:50.699 --> 01:10:52.500
I thought you were going to say that they'd been fucking in the

1596
01:10:52.500 --> 01:10:54.600
cupboard. it was all forgiven.

1597
01:10:57.420 --> 01:10:59.220
Could you imagine?

1598
01:10:59.279 --> 01:11:01.859
there a scene in this, though, where Jakotay says, sorry. can't

1599
01:11:01.859 --> 01:11:02.159
remember.

1600
01:11:02.760 --> 01:11:04.739
Does he apologise?

1601
01:11:04.800 --> 01:11:05.760
No, I don't think there is.

1602
01:11:05.819 --> 01:11:06.779
And I think that's a problem.

1603
01:11:06.840 --> 01:11:07.800
Yeah.

1604
01:11:07.859 --> 01:11:10.199
And where, why does he disagree with it?

1605
01:11:10.260 --> 01:11:12.840
He does say to her it's wrong, doesn't he?

1606
01:11:12.899 --> 01:11:14.460
He says, this is wrong.

1607
01:11:14.520 --> 01:11:18.659
We don't know what the consequences are going to be. which is true

1608
01:11:18.659 --> 01:11:19.560
of everything.

1609
01:11:19.619 --> 01:11:21.779
Like, that's a dumb argument.

1610
01:11:21.840 --> 01:11:23.579
We don't know what the consequences are going to be.

1611
01:11:23.640 --> 01:11:25.800
We don't know what the consequences of anything. are going to be.

1612
01:11:25.859 --> 01:11:28.739
Like if it's wrong to do something where you're not sure what the

1613
01:11:28.739 --> 01:11:29.699
consequences are.

1614
01:11:29.760 --> 01:11:31.140
Well, you know that's just stupid.

1615
01:11:31.260 --> 01:11:35.100
And then he, you know, he tells the scorpion story which everyone

1616
01:11:35.100 --> 01:11:37.439
knows and we're forced to sit through anyway.

1617
01:11:38.039 --> 01:11:41.939
I love the fact it's not even a dreadful metaphor that they've

1618
01:11:41.939 --> 01:11:42.899
made up for the episode.

1619
01:11:42.960 --> 01:11:44.699
No, no.

1620
01:11:44.760 --> 01:11:46.439
I don't think it works.

1621
01:11:46.560 --> 01:11:48.600
I just don't think it works.

1622
01:11:48.659 --> 01:11:51.779
They do try and betray...

1623
01:11:51.779 --> 01:11:56.220
Boy, just crew. once they've got what they want. 7 of 9 does say

1624
01:11:56.220 --> 01:11:57.659
you know, well, I'll see it, we're gonna have.

1625
01:11:57.720 --> 01:11:59.159
We can have your shit now as well.

1626
01:11:59.220 --> 01:12:01.619
So he's not entirely wrong.

1627
01:12:01.680 --> 01:12:03.060
No, that's right.

1628
01:12:03.119 --> 01:12:06.359
And he does get to, um, and that is the scorpion, isn't it?

1629
01:12:06.420 --> 01:12:07.140
It's stinging you.

1630
01:12:07.199 --> 01:12:08.100
It just can't help itself.

1631
01:12:08.159 --> 01:12:11.760
Kind of having your cake and eating it because Jane weighs right

1632
01:12:11.760 --> 01:12:14.699
in the they do need to work together and that is the solution.

1633
01:12:14.760 --> 01:12:18.840
And Chakotay is right because once the solution is found, the ball

1634
01:12:18.840 --> 01:12:19.680
try and turn on them.

1635
01:12:19.739 --> 01:12:21.779
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1636
01:12:22.020 --> 01:12:26.039
Which which is, you know, like, it would be a bit disappointing if

1637
01:12:26.039 --> 01:12:26.939
they didn't, actually.

1638
01:12:27.000 --> 01:12:28.560
If they went, well, thank you very much.

1639
01:12:28.619 --> 01:12:29.220
We're off.

1640
01:12:29.279 --> 01:12:30.899
Yeah, yeah, we're off now.

1641
01:12:30.960 --> 01:12:31.619
Yeah, that's right.

1642
01:12:31.680 --> 01:12:32.279
That's right.

1643
01:12:32.340 --> 01:12:33.239
That would kind of.

1644
01:12:33.239 --> 01:12:34.979
Yes.

1645
01:12:35.579 --> 01:12:40.020
So this is kind of the we're about to have a seismic shift in

1646
01:12:40.020 --> 01:12:41.340
Voyager this very soon.

1647
01:12:41.399 --> 01:12:46.439
The creation of 7 is kind of happening here and it's actually, um

1648
01:12:46.439 --> 01:12:50.520
it's Janeway's idea, isn't it?

1649
01:12:50.579 --> 01:12:51.720
Like it's her idea.

1650
01:12:51.779 --> 01:12:53.939
Like choose a representative.

1651
01:12:54.000 --> 01:12:57.899
I think this is the 2nd best decision they made on boys.

1652
01:12:57.960 --> 01:13:00.300
The 1st was the female captain and K-Moll group.

1653
01:13:00.600 --> 01:13:05.399
But essentially, and and what it leads to in this season and

1654
01:13:05.399 --> 01:13:05.819
beyond.

1655
01:13:05.880 --> 01:13:10.739
It's just loads of wonderful scenes of excellent actresses working

1656
01:13:10.739 --> 01:13:11.159
together.

1657
01:13:11.220 --> 01:13:14.819
Roxanne Dawson, Jerry Ryan, Kate Mulgrew.

1658
01:13:14.880 --> 01:13:16.260
Yep.

1659
01:13:16.380 --> 01:13:18.479
And just being brilliant.

1660
01:13:18.539 --> 01:13:20.760
The writing's not always there, but the acting is.

1661
01:13:20.819 --> 01:13:21.420
No.

1662
01:13:21.479 --> 01:13:22.680
Well, that's right.

1663
01:13:22.739 --> 01:13:26.100
And those 3 are all terrific, I think. you know, their their

1664
01:13:26.100 --> 01:13:30.119
standouts and, you know, the best Robert, obviously, and Tim Ross

1665
01:13:30.119 --> 01:13:30.899
is pretty great.

1666
01:13:31.020 --> 01:13:34.319
All they needed was to keep Sesker on and imagine the 4 of them

1667
01:13:34.319 --> 01:13:35.460
together in a thing.

1668
01:13:37.439 --> 01:13:39.359
Well, she does come back.

1669
01:13:39.420 --> 01:13:40.199
Not enough.

1670
01:13:40.199 --> 01:13:41.279
She will come back once more.

1671
01:13:41.399 --> 01:13:42.359
Never enough, Nathan.

1672
01:13:42.420 --> 01:13:44.039
Hello, Chakotay.

1673
01:13:44.100 --> 01:13:44.579
Here we go.

1674
01:13:44.640 --> 01:13:45.600
Got your baby here.

1675
01:13:47.819 --> 01:13:50.520
Do you see what I mean about the lighting?

1676
01:13:50.579 --> 01:13:52.319
I know this is a functioning ball cube.

1677
01:13:52.380 --> 01:13:54.239
But this is very flat.

1678
01:13:54.300 --> 01:13:54.600
Yeah.

1679
01:13:54.720 --> 01:13:56.699
Yeah, yeah.

1680
01:13:56.760 --> 01:13:57.899
Yeah.

1681
01:13:57.960 --> 01:14:00.300
I don't know why they're going for yellow.

1682
01:14:00.300 --> 01:14:03.300
In both episodes, they go for yellow, and we all know the colour

1683
01:14:03.300 --> 01:14:04.739
for Borg is green.

1684
01:14:04.800 --> 01:14:06.779
I don't know why they're going for yellow.

1685
01:14:07.319 --> 01:14:11.220
It's a sort of it's an ugly colour to look at, isn't it?

1686
01:14:11.279 --> 01:14:12.840
They do get it right, though.

1687
01:14:12.899 --> 01:14:14.520
I think in sort of dark frontier.

1688
01:14:14.579 --> 01:14:17.399
They going for the same colour scheme, but they do it in a much

1689
01:14:17.399 --> 01:14:19.800
more visual, very sort of dramatic way.

1690
01:14:19.979 --> 01:14:23.819
Do you know, I haven't watched Dark Frontier for so long.

1691
01:14:23.880 --> 01:14:26.340
It may pop up on the randomiser at some point.

1692
01:14:26.399 --> 01:14:27.119
It may.

1693
01:14:27.180 --> 01:14:28.020
That would be interesting.

1694
01:14:28.380 --> 01:14:32.039
Would you like to hear from Jerry Ryan herself about recording

1695
01:14:32.039 --> 01:14:33.119
this episode?

1696
01:14:33.180 --> 01:14:33.659
She's here.

1697
01:14:34.380 --> 01:14:38.819
It never occurred to me that I'd be playing a full Borg, but any

1698
01:14:38.819 --> 01:14:40.079
substantial period of time.

1699
01:14:40.140 --> 01:14:42.720
But that's exactly what I did in the 1st 2 episodes.

1700
01:14:42.779 --> 01:14:46.140
All I knew or thought was that other than the Borg.

1701
01:14:46.199 --> 01:14:49.439
Oh, sorry, other than the ball queen, the Borg hardly speak.

1702
01:14:49.560 --> 01:14:53.819
They'd given me 1st contract to watch, but already said to me

1703
01:14:53.819 --> 01:14:56.819
ignore what the ball queen does in that because 7 of 9 is a

1704
01:14:56.819 --> 01:14:57.180
hybrid.

1705
01:14:57.539 --> 01:14:58.920
Yeah.

1706
01:14:59.039 --> 01:15:02.760
When the 1st script came out to me, I just panicked, called the

1707
01:15:02.760 --> 01:15:04.560
writers and said, what is this?

1708
01:15:04.619 --> 01:15:06.300
I didn't know I'd have to talk.

1709
01:15:06.359 --> 01:15:08.279
I was completely at a loss.

1710
01:15:08.699 --> 01:15:10.560
What am I doing?

1711
01:15:10.619 --> 01:15:11.100
She said.

1712
01:15:11.159 --> 01:15:12.960
You've got give me some kind of a clue.

1713
01:15:13.140 --> 01:15:17.039
The answer was, we're creating something new.

1714
01:15:17.100 --> 01:15:18.960
The character is a whole new alien.

1715
01:15:19.920 --> 01:15:21.300
Okay.

1716
01:15:21.359 --> 01:15:22.140
That's all she got.

1717
01:15:22.680 --> 01:15:25.199
I think she does really well.

1718
01:15:25.319 --> 01:15:26.939
Like, if that's it.

1719
01:15:27.000 --> 01:15:30.960
If she gets nothing, she's good in this scene, don't you think?

1720
01:15:31.079 --> 01:15:36.359
Like the arrogance, which is what she settles on, the arrogance

1721
01:15:36.359 --> 01:15:39.180
like the way she dismisses them.

1722
01:15:39.239 --> 01:15:41.039
It's good.

1723
01:15:41.100 --> 01:15:43.439
I think it's a little one though. is all.

1724
01:15:43.500 --> 01:15:44.340
Sure.

1725
01:15:44.399 --> 01:15:47.159
I think pretty much story, isn't it?

1726
01:15:47.220 --> 01:15:48.359
You have to start from one note.

1727
01:15:48.420 --> 01:15:51.539
You know, we talk about sort of the murder she wrote, guest actor

1728
01:15:51.539 --> 01:15:51.899
of the week.

1729
01:15:51.960 --> 01:15:54.659
I think I think that sort of actor could play this role.

1730
01:15:54.720 --> 01:15:58.920
It's when she's then human and having to deliver the sort of cross

1731
01:15:58.920 --> 01:16:00.600
between the Borg and the human.

1732
01:16:00.659 --> 01:16:02.520
That's when you need a skilled actress.

1733
01:16:02.579 --> 01:16:04.439
And when she really...

1734
01:16:04.500 --> 01:16:07.439
Also the thing that I think is great is that she actually does

1735
01:16:07.439 --> 01:16:10.680
comedy well, don't you think?

1736
01:16:10.739 --> 01:16:12.840
Like she's, she can be funny.

1737
01:16:12.899 --> 01:16:14.159
She's hilarious.

1738
01:16:14.220 --> 01:16:17.579
I'll never, ever stop talking about that scene where she's playing

1739
01:16:17.579 --> 01:16:18.479
Robert Picardo.

1740
01:16:19.079 --> 01:16:21.539
Oh yeah, that's so great.

1741
01:16:22.560 --> 01:16:24.060
So good.

1742
01:16:24.119 --> 01:16:29.159
No, I would have seen in someone to watch over me. where she goes

1743
01:16:29.159 --> 01:16:31.319
up to the fella and goes, you're going on a date with me.

1744
01:16:31.380 --> 01:16:31.920
All right.

1745
01:16:31.979 --> 01:16:36.239
Yeah Like it.

1746
01:16:36.300 --> 01:16:41.399
When she stopped singing in, um, in, is it the killing game?

1747
01:16:41.460 --> 01:16:45.539
She stops singing and then she she kind of comes to and goes, I

1748
01:16:45.539 --> 01:16:49.859
must discontinue this activity and then walks off because she

1749
01:16:49.859 --> 01:16:51.479
doesn't even know what to call it.

1750
01:16:51.479 --> 01:16:52.619
So good.

1751
01:16:52.680 --> 01:16:53.760
All right.

1752
01:16:53.819 --> 01:16:57.899
So Kess is here still, somehow, she's still with us on the show.

1753
01:16:57.960 --> 01:17:02.579
We have said that we do quite like cares when they remember that

1754
01:17:02.579 --> 01:17:03.119
she's there.

1755
01:17:03.239 --> 01:17:06.779
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think she's great, and I think her and the

1756
01:17:06.779 --> 01:17:07.920
doctor are very good as well.

1757
01:17:07.979 --> 01:17:09.420
I think very good together.

1758
01:17:09.539 --> 01:17:12.899
I think people would dismiss this, but I think the gift is one of

1759
01:17:12.899 --> 01:17:16.380
the best Voyager episodes, and I think because the emphasis is on

1760
01:17:16.380 --> 01:17:18.060
Janeway and 7 and cares.

1761
01:17:18.600 --> 01:17:22.920
And there's some seriously good acting going on in that episode.

1762
01:17:22.979 --> 01:17:24.600
And it's just a character piece.

1763
01:17:24.659 --> 01:17:26.880
Apart from that beer, the game wherever, which gets flung.

1764
01:17:27.000 --> 01:17:28.380
Yeah.

1765
01:17:30.119 --> 01:17:34.560
Yeah, where we go straight back to the status quo anti and don't

1766
01:17:34.560 --> 01:17:35.579
have to deal with any of this.

1767
01:17:35.640 --> 01:17:39.359
We just fling us into some other place altogether and we don't

1768
01:17:39.359 --> 01:17:40.920
have to deal with the consequences.

1769
01:17:40.979 --> 01:17:45.659
But, I think what's really good about the gift too is just that

1770
01:17:45.659 --> 01:17:50.699
sudden thing where she just has to go, you know, and and Kate's

1771
01:17:50.699 --> 01:17:52.260
really quite distressed by that.

1772
01:17:52.260 --> 01:17:54.420
And, there's a secret.

1773
01:17:54.479 --> 01:17:58.260
It's really not at all what they would have wanted.

1774
01:17:58.319 --> 01:17:58.859
It's so good.

1775
01:17:58.920 --> 01:18:02.460
Do you remember where she's in a sort of pink nighty when Kez

1776
01:18:02.460 --> 01:18:05.039
comes to visit her and she's holding her face because she knows

1777
01:18:05.039 --> 01:18:05.699
she's going to go.

1778
01:18:05.760 --> 01:18:07.800
It's like the last time she's gonna see it.

1779
01:18:07.859 --> 01:18:09.840
It's so gorgeous.

1780
01:18:10.680 --> 01:18:13.800
I've got one last quote here from Jerry Ryan.

1781
01:18:13.859 --> 01:18:17.819
Because it gives us a clue into sort of what she eventually tapped

1782
01:18:17.819 --> 01:18:19.920
into to play the ball drone.

1783
01:18:19.979 --> 01:18:22.920
She said, I was absolutely panic stricken.

1784
01:18:22.979 --> 01:18:26.220
And I begged Win Rich Colby for advice.

1785
01:18:26.279 --> 01:18:30.420
I managed to find her voice and exactly what it was that made her

1786
01:18:30.420 --> 01:18:33.000
tick when Rick Colby helped me to figure it out.

1787
01:18:33.060 --> 01:18:36.659
He gave me the image of a Prussian general.

1788
01:18:36.779 --> 01:18:40.079
He said, she's not a robot and she's not a ball queen.

1789
01:18:40.140 --> 01:18:43.439
She's not that free, but she has this military bearing and the

1790
01:18:43.439 --> 01:18:45.239
presence of a Prussian general.

1791
01:18:45.300 --> 01:18:46.979
So that's what she's like.

1792
01:18:47.039 --> 01:18:49.439
Rick Colby speaks with a German accent, I think.

1793
01:18:49.500 --> 01:18:51.239
I'm sure that I've seen him interviewed.

1794
01:18:51.300 --> 01:18:54.359
That's brilliant, and that is exactly it.

1795
01:18:54.420 --> 01:18:59.579
It is the imperiousness, the contempt, the inflexibility, the kind

1796
01:18:59.579 --> 01:19:02.100
of rigid certainty that she's correct.

1797
01:19:02.100 --> 01:19:06.119
And like this threat, the way she delivers this threat.

1798
01:19:06.180 --> 01:19:09.060
And there is a little bit of a sneer behind the thread.

1799
01:19:09.119 --> 01:19:10.380
It's not affectless.

1800
01:19:10.439 --> 01:19:11.460
She isn't a robot.

1801
01:19:11.579 --> 01:19:16.439
I think, I think, I think she's nailing it straight away.

1802
01:19:16.500 --> 01:19:19.319
Go ahead and watch the gift after this.

1803
01:19:19.319 --> 01:19:23.159
She's even better because she's really angry.

1804
01:19:23.399 --> 01:19:26.520
But this decision's being made for her.

1805
01:19:26.579 --> 01:19:29.760
But still within the same confines of that Borg logic.

1806
01:19:30.239 --> 01:19:31.560
Yeah.

1807
01:19:32.279 --> 01:19:35.399
Well, I mean, people compare her to data or Spock, you know, the

1808
01:19:35.399 --> 01:19:41.100
character on the Star Trek episode who has some weird relationship

1809
01:19:41.100 --> 01:19:47.819
with humanity, you know, and data it wants to be human and and, you

1810
01:19:47.819 --> 01:19:53.640
know, 7 finds herself becoming human against her will and has to

1811
01:19:53.640 --> 01:19:54.840
deal with all of that.

1812
01:19:55.619 --> 01:19:58.380
But I do think that...

1813
01:19:58.439 --> 01:20:03.600
Well, I was going to say that in 90s trek, I think they pretty

1814
01:20:03.600 --> 01:20:07.500
much got it spot on when they were casting irregulars, even if

1815
01:20:07.500 --> 01:20:11.279
those regulars had to sort of feel their way into the roles for a

1816
01:20:11.279 --> 01:20:11.760
couple of years.

1817
01:20:11.819 --> 01:20:13.500
Well, yeah.

1818
01:20:13.560 --> 01:20:16.020
I mean, me, they lucked out with Jerry Ryan.

1819
01:20:16.079 --> 01:20:17.220
Oh yeah.

1820
01:20:17.279 --> 01:20:21.119
Like, by all accounts, they had, they were thinking about 7 and 9

1821
01:20:21.119 --> 01:20:24.659
from Scorpion part one, but they refused to put her in Scorpion

1822
01:20:24.659 --> 01:20:28.619
part one because they wanted the entire summer to do casting

1823
01:20:28.619 --> 01:20:29.220
auditions.

1824
01:20:29.520 --> 01:20:31.079
Wow.

1825
01:20:31.140 --> 01:20:33.720
So they really, really sort of worked on this.

1826
01:20:33.779 --> 01:20:39.300
Oh, I, this was about these scenes with the, the, the, the, alcoves

1827
01:20:39.300 --> 01:20:40.500
inside Voyager.

1828
01:20:40.560 --> 01:20:43.619
This was the best innovation they did because it stays, doesn't

1829
01:20:43.619 --> 01:20:43.800
it?

1830
01:20:43.859 --> 01:20:45.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1831
01:20:45.359 --> 01:20:45.659
Yeah.

1832
01:20:45.720 --> 01:20:46.380
Yeah.

1833
01:20:46.439 --> 01:20:50.399
But I mean, that whole sequence back then with the, with the, the

1834
01:20:50.399 --> 01:20:55.199
ships, the bioships attacking our cube. finally, you know, we've

1835
01:20:55.199 --> 01:21:00.840
had, what, not quite half the episode, a 3rd of the episode, where

1836
01:21:00.840 --> 01:21:01.979
they haven't been in it.

1837
01:21:02.039 --> 01:21:05.100
You know, we've just been negotiating with the Borg and now here

1838
01:21:05.100 --> 01:21:06.119
they are back again.

1839
01:21:07.140 --> 01:21:11.520
Yeah, and just the surprise, the surprise of them beaming over.

1840
01:21:11.579 --> 01:21:14.939
How did how did all of this machinery appear on Voyager?

1841
01:21:15.000 --> 01:21:16.739
Did the ball just send it all over?

1842
01:21:16.800 --> 01:21:18.239
They beat it?

1843
01:21:18.300 --> 01:21:18.779
Yeah, yeah.

1844
01:21:18.840 --> 01:21:20.100
They beamed them over before him.

1845
01:21:20.159 --> 01:21:21.600
No thing was being destroyed.

1846
01:21:21.659 --> 01:21:24.840
Mind you, the other really, really great moment in this. is where

1847
01:21:24.840 --> 01:21:26.939
all the Borgs get sucked out into space.

1848
01:21:27.000 --> 01:21:28.680
I love that.

1849
01:21:29.399 --> 01:21:32.340
Except she holds onto a thing.

1850
01:21:32.399 --> 01:21:35.520
We've been there before and dramatis persona.

1851
01:21:35.579 --> 01:21:38.760
If you hold onto a console with your fingers, you know.

1852
01:21:38.760 --> 01:21:40.380
Yeah, yeah.

1853
01:21:40.439 --> 01:21:42.359
It's just a lie for you.

1854
01:21:42.899 --> 01:21:46.800
And so Janeway is unconscious so it's time to completely just

1855
01:21:46.800 --> 01:21:49.140
annul a deal.

1856
01:21:49.199 --> 01:21:51.420
Like, what a dickhead, honestly.

1857
01:21:51.479 --> 01:21:52.920
Yeah.

1858
01:21:52.979 --> 01:21:58.380
Like, yeah, I do this a lot, but DS9 would give you that scene at

1859
01:21:58.380 --> 01:22:03.359
the end. where the person would be dressed down and said, you do

1860
01:22:03.359 --> 01:22:06.779
this again in your, you know, I'll send you back to the academy.

1861
01:22:07.439 --> 01:22:10.800
I also think there's something unpleasant about it that it

1862
01:22:10.800 --> 01:22:14.100
undermines his character and that scene, that beautiful scene in

1863
01:22:14.100 --> 01:22:20.220
episode one where she says how much her, you know, the

1864
01:22:20.220 --> 01:22:22.319
relationship means to her.

1865
01:22:22.380 --> 01:22:26.399
Like having him betray that makes him an asshole.

1866
01:22:26.520 --> 01:22:27.899
That's the other thing as well.

1867
01:22:27.960 --> 01:22:31.079
And because he's got, like we've said before, there is no

1868
01:22:31.079 --> 01:22:33.119
substance to his decision. just a gut feeling.

1869
01:22:33.180 --> 01:22:38.279
He's prepared to sacrifice that longstanding relationship he's got

1870
01:22:38.279 --> 01:22:39.539
with somebody who admires.

1871
01:22:39.600 --> 01:22:40.199
Yeah.

1872
01:22:40.319 --> 01:22:42.840
But, you know, like, have you been?

1873
01:22:43.380 --> 01:22:46.619
Yeah, have you been in a hierarchy before where you have a boss?

1874
01:22:46.739 --> 01:22:50.279
He was a market, ask you to do things you don't agree with?

1875
01:22:50.340 --> 01:22:53.159
Like, it's, yeah, it's crazy.

1876
01:22:53.220 --> 01:22:55.140
But doesn't she beg him now?

1877
01:22:55.199 --> 01:22:56.039
Doesn't she say no?

1878
01:22:56.159 --> 01:22:57.659
Keep going with the Borg.

1879
01:22:57.720 --> 01:22:59.039
Yes, trust the deal.

1880
01:22:59.100 --> 01:23:00.960
That makes it seem even worse.

1881
01:23:01.020 --> 01:23:03.239
Yeah, yeah much worse.

1882
01:23:03.300 --> 01:23:04.739
It's so it's stupid.

1883
01:23:04.800 --> 01:23:05.880
It's am fisted.

1884
01:23:05.939 --> 01:23:06.779
But do you know what?

1885
01:23:06.779 --> 01:23:08.819
There's no way for him to come out of this good.

1886
01:23:08.939 --> 01:23:12.119
Like, you know, unlike your Voyager of the week episode.

1887
01:23:12.180 --> 01:23:14.039
It has given us something to rail against him.

1888
01:23:14.100 --> 01:23:15.899
We are feeling something about this material.

1889
01:23:15.960 --> 01:23:17.399
Yeah, yeah.

1890
01:23:17.460 --> 01:23:21.960
Even if it's just feel that it's idiotic.

1891
01:23:22.500 --> 01:23:23.880
Yeah.

1892
01:23:23.939 --> 01:23:24.600
No, no, no.

1893
01:23:24.659 --> 01:23:27.899
I think this is a poorly written central thing and it spoils this

1894
01:23:27.899 --> 01:23:32.579
episode because he's behaving the way he behaves for no reason and

1895
01:23:32.579 --> 01:23:37.380
he's and he's doing a bad thing and there are no consequences.

1896
01:23:37.439 --> 01:23:40.439
Yeah, well, I think a lot of Voyager episodes do that, though.

1897
01:23:40.920 --> 01:23:43.920
This is unfortunately, this is a pivotal one.

1898
01:23:43.979 --> 01:23:45.659
That's why it's sort of...

1899
01:23:45.720 --> 01:23:46.979
More obvious.

1900
01:23:47.039 --> 01:23:50.880
It's just the what has, if what had gone wrong.

1901
01:23:51.539 --> 01:23:57.600
If what had gone wrong. proved that Chakotay was right.

1902
01:23:57.779 --> 01:23:58.739
Right?

1903
01:23:58.800 --> 01:24:04.260
If Chakotay's thought that the ball could be trusted, and then the

1904
01:24:04.260 --> 01:24:07.079
Borg do a bad thing, right?

1905
01:24:07.140 --> 01:24:11.880
And that's why she's taken out, but she says, please try to repair

1906
01:24:11.880 --> 01:24:14.399
the relationship and he tries but fails.

1907
01:24:14.460 --> 01:24:15.720
Do you know what I mean?

1908
01:24:15.779 --> 01:24:18.000
If he was in some way validated by what had gone on.

1909
01:24:18.060 --> 01:24:23.039
But it's just the moment 8472 attack and she's disabled.

1910
01:24:23.100 --> 01:24:26.640
He's right, right, the deal's over, even though the deal hadn't

1911
01:24:26.640 --> 01:24:27.239
been failing.

1912
01:24:27.300 --> 01:24:28.920
Nothing had gone wrong with the deal.

1913
01:24:28.979 --> 01:24:30.600
I think they think...

1914
01:24:30.600 --> 01:24:32.520
In fact, the conflict...

1915
01:24:32.579 --> 01:24:33.600
The conflict's enough.

1916
01:24:33.659 --> 01:24:35.220
The fact that they're at each other.

1917
01:24:35.279 --> 01:24:36.239
That's dramatic enough.

1918
01:24:37.079 --> 01:24:38.460
Yeah.

1919
01:24:38.460 --> 01:24:42.300
We don't we don't know these characters enough for these decisions

1920
01:24:42.300 --> 01:24:43.140
to make any sense.

1921
01:24:43.619 --> 01:24:45.239
That's it.

1922
01:24:45.300 --> 01:24:48.420
Well, I just think, but I think the decisions don't make sense and

1923
01:24:48.420 --> 01:24:50.640
they're not thought through and I think that undermines it.

1924
01:24:50.699 --> 01:24:53.460
I think that that what makes this central, that's what makes this

1925
01:24:53.460 --> 01:24:55.500
central con... conflict.

1926
01:24:55.560 --> 01:25:01.619
And that's what makes the 7 Janeway relationship so good is that

1927
01:25:01.619 --> 01:25:03.479
it's such a simple premise.

1928
01:25:03.539 --> 01:25:05.340
She's chosen to turn her into a human being.

1929
01:25:05.399 --> 01:25:08.579
She's pissed about that and everything that she's having to

1930
01:25:08.579 --> 01:25:09.840
experience for the 1st time.

1931
01:25:09.899 --> 01:25:11.939
We understand seven.

1932
01:25:12.000 --> 01:25:13.500
We understand Janeway.

1933
01:25:13.560 --> 01:25:15.899
We know why the decisions have been made, and there's just natural

1934
01:25:15.899 --> 01:25:16.680
conflict there.

1935
01:25:16.800 --> 01:25:20.579
Plus the actors are at, you know, we know the behind the scenes

1936
01:25:20.579 --> 01:25:21.420
here as well.

1937
01:25:21.479 --> 01:25:23.460
It's sizzling for a reason.

1938
01:25:24.779 --> 01:25:27.779
So there's something here, isn't there?

1939
01:25:27.840 --> 01:25:32.399
Maybe it's the thing where 7 confronts him and says, yeah, like

1940
01:25:32.399 --> 01:25:36.479
she says we need to change the deal because we've lost the chip or

1941
01:25:36.479 --> 01:25:41.039
whatever, and he says, all right, you can have the non-of probes

1942
01:25:41.039 --> 01:25:42.420
and then piss off or whatever.

1943
01:25:42.600 --> 01:25:45.840
Strange to think, you know, that there'll be snog in in a couple

1944
01:25:45.840 --> 01:25:46.500
of seasons time.

1945
01:25:46.560 --> 01:25:48.300
Yeah, I thought that too.

1946
01:25:49.079 --> 01:25:54.000
Look, look how ineffectual Chakotay looks in Janeway seat.

1947
01:25:54.720 --> 01:25:57.840
He looks like a very small man in her seat.

1948
01:25:57.899 --> 01:25:59.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1949
01:25:59.819 --> 01:26:01.439
Look at his body language.

1950
01:26:01.500 --> 01:26:02.640
He sort of hunched, doesn't he?

1951
01:26:02.880 --> 01:26:04.260
Yeah.

1952
01:26:05.340 --> 01:26:08.880
I don't think he was ever meant for the captain's chair, Nathan.

1953
01:26:09.000 --> 01:26:10.979
No, I think you're right.

1954
01:26:11.039 --> 01:26:12.060
That is actually it.

1955
01:26:12.119 --> 01:26:13.199
And it's, I don't know.

1956
01:26:13.260 --> 01:26:15.539
Look at everybody around the table.

1957
01:26:15.600 --> 01:26:17.699
I think any of them agree with him.

1958
01:26:17.760 --> 01:26:20.220
They're all looking at each other like, are we doing this?

1959
01:26:20.279 --> 01:26:21.000
Yeah, yeah.

1960
01:26:21.479 --> 01:26:23.699
Yeah, it's funny, isn't it?

1961
01:26:23.760 --> 01:26:25.260
It is a funny reaction.

1962
01:26:28.380 --> 01:26:32.460
I think it's even more explicit, you know, in Equinox part 2, where

1963
01:26:32.460 --> 01:26:36.899
Chakotay is on the verge of staging a coup on Voyager because

1964
01:26:36.899 --> 01:26:40.199
Janeway is behaving...

1965
01:26:40.260 --> 01:26:40.500
Yeah.

1966
01:26:40.560 --> 01:26:41.039
Yeah.

1967
01:26:41.100 --> 01:26:43.260
But here she wasn't.

1968
01:26:43.319 --> 01:26:44.220
I mean, he or she wasn't.

1969
01:26:44.279 --> 01:26:48.659
She was doing something that he didn't agree with, but...

1970
01:26:48.659 --> 01:26:51.239
Be nice to her, though, because he said it in Scorpion part one

1971
01:26:51.239 --> 01:26:52.500
you're the captain.

1972
01:26:52.560 --> 01:26:53.699
I'll follow your orders.

1973
01:26:53.760 --> 01:26:56.520
Even after he said, I don't agree with you.

1974
01:26:56.819 --> 01:26:58.140
Yeah.

1975
01:26:58.199 --> 01:26:58.859
Yeah.

1976
01:27:02.819 --> 01:27:04.920
Look at that makeup.

1977
01:27:04.979 --> 01:27:06.420
I mean, I quite like him.

1978
01:27:06.479 --> 01:27:11.279
I quite like that threat and you know, there are times when the

1979
01:27:11.279 --> 01:27:15.840
medium Robert, you know, has a bit of steel and delivers some, you

1980
01:27:15.840 --> 01:27:16.979
know, lines like that.

1981
01:27:17.100 --> 01:27:20.159
Which Roberts, the median, Robert, is that Robert Belgian?

1982
01:27:20.220 --> 01:27:22.560
He's the Beltrans, the made it, Robert.

1983
01:27:22.619 --> 01:27:25.140
So there's the worst, Robert, the best, Robert, and Beltran.

1984
01:27:25.260 --> 01:27:29.399
I think I think pretty much series one and 2 is where we see his

1985
01:27:29.399 --> 01:27:29.760
acting.

1986
01:27:30.420 --> 01:27:33.180
And after that, he just phoned out.

1987
01:27:33.239 --> 01:27:33.720
Checks out.

1988
01:27:33.779 --> 01:27:34.739
Yeah.

1989
01:27:34.800 --> 01:27:35.579
Yeah.

1990
01:27:35.640 --> 01:27:38.699
But then I think the same with Tim Ross, and I think Tim Ross is a

1991
01:27:38.699 --> 01:27:41.819
better actor, but he's just so fed up of saying churning out the

1992
01:27:41.819 --> 01:27:42.960
same lines that...

1993
01:27:43.260 --> 01:27:47.460
Yeah, but I think, I mean, I think that there's kind of just a

1994
01:27:47.460 --> 01:27:51.000
genuine problem that people don't think to write for him or he

1995
01:27:51.000 --> 01:27:54.000
just doesn't, I don't know what the problem is because he's so

1996
01:27:54.000 --> 01:27:54.300
good.

1997
01:27:54.359 --> 01:27:56.039
And whilst he's so great.

1998
01:27:56.100 --> 01:27:58.920
I do think, you know, everybody should get a fair stab of good

1999
01:27:58.920 --> 01:28:00.479
writing in an ensemble.

2000
01:28:00.539 --> 01:28:03.960
If they are going to focus and give the best stuff to the women

2001
01:28:03.960 --> 01:28:04.800
I'm not going to complain.

2002
01:28:04.920 --> 01:28:05.819
That's okay.

2003
01:28:05.880 --> 01:28:08.579
Yeah, no, that's especially when it's these women.

2004
01:28:08.880 --> 01:28:11.100
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2005
01:28:11.159 --> 01:28:11.699
Yeah.

2006
01:28:11.760 --> 01:28:14.760
Well, I mean, that's the thing they've done on Discovery too, isn't

2007
01:28:14.760 --> 01:28:14.939
it?

2008
01:28:15.000 --> 01:28:19.260
Like just whole scenes where everyone on the bridge is a woman.

2009
01:28:19.319 --> 01:28:22.619
Do you not remember that amazing scene in Dark Frontier?

2010
01:28:22.680 --> 01:28:27.060
The Cliffhanger, where they're in the ball ship, Janeway and 7, and

2011
01:28:27.060 --> 01:28:31.800
the ball queen's saying, you know, come back to us, 709, and J, and

2012
01:28:31.800 --> 01:28:36.239
7 goes, you know, I'm staying, and Janeway goes, I'm not leaving

2013
01:28:36.239 --> 01:28:40.920
here without you, and she's got a gun in her face, and 7 goes, then

2014
01:28:40.920 --> 01:28:42.300
you will be assimilated.

2015
01:28:42.359 --> 01:28:44.880
I mean, it's peak drama, Avoyager, awesome.

2016
01:28:45.479 --> 01:28:47.640
I really need to watch that again.

2017
01:28:47.819 --> 01:28:49.380
Why what?

2018
01:28:49.439 --> 01:28:52.140
What, there's ball cubes being sliced apart?

2019
01:28:52.199 --> 01:28:54.539
Oh, yeah.

2020
01:28:54.539 --> 01:28:56.399
That's just, it's been a while.

2021
01:28:56.460 --> 01:28:58.380
It is a great cartoon, that one, isn't it?

2022
01:28:58.439 --> 01:28:58.920
Bad shot.

2023
01:29:01.020 --> 01:29:04.560
I just felt as well, like, you know...

2024
01:29:04.560 --> 01:29:09.420
With one, I felt as if it did have some pace to it and it was

2025
01:29:09.420 --> 01:29:10.800
building up to the climax.

2026
01:29:10.859 --> 01:29:12.479
Whereas I just felt too.

2027
01:29:12.539 --> 01:29:13.680
There was no pace.

2028
01:29:13.739 --> 01:29:16.079
It just sort of rumbled along.

2029
01:29:16.140 --> 01:29:18.180
And then ended...

2030
01:29:18.239 --> 01:29:24.600
Yeah, although I like these Borg, like the, you know, this set.

2031
01:29:24.659 --> 01:29:28.859
I know we're on in a cargo bay with those regeneration chambers

2032
01:29:28.859 --> 01:29:30.779
and stuff, but I think they look better.

2033
01:29:30.840 --> 01:29:32.279
Still all this yellow.

2034
01:29:32.340 --> 01:29:34.619
Why is everyone, do you know what, lighting everything yellow?

2035
01:29:34.680 --> 01:29:36.899
Do you remember the pacing of, um...

2036
01:29:36.899 --> 01:29:39.899
Imogen the sun and shutters and symbols?

2037
01:29:39.960 --> 01:29:43.140
images of sandwiches were very quiet and then shadows and symbols

2038
01:29:43.140 --> 01:29:46.079
where you had those free plots and they were all going on and then

2039
01:29:46.079 --> 01:29:48.659
it ended up with that big explosion of the shipyard.

2040
01:29:48.720 --> 01:29:51.479
I think that's the better approach, you know, sort of start slow

2041
01:29:51.479 --> 01:29:55.800
build to big rather than build up, have a big beginning and then

2042
01:29:55.800 --> 01:29:58.020
just sort of fritter out.

2043
01:29:58.619 --> 01:30:02.340
Well, I mean, they kind of do that in best of both worlds and the

2044
01:30:02.340 --> 01:30:06.300
reason is, of course, well known that they literally had no more

2045
01:30:06.300 --> 01:30:09.600
idea how they were going to get out of it than you did when you

2046
01:30:09.600 --> 01:30:11.880
were watching it for the 1st time.

2047
01:30:11.939 --> 01:30:14.880
It's just like, oh shit, that was really good.

2048
01:30:14.939 --> 01:30:15.779
What do we do now?

2049
01:30:15.840 --> 01:30:20.100
And they kind of only barely...

2050
01:30:20.159 --> 01:30:21.600
That sleep ending.

2051
01:30:21.659 --> 01:30:24.720
Because they're a high moist. makes perfect sense.

2052
01:30:24.779 --> 01:30:29.579
It does make sense, but you can't pull it again, can you?

2053
01:30:29.640 --> 01:30:31.020
Like, you can't do it every time.

2054
01:30:31.079 --> 01:30:33.300
Oh, look, this I love this bit.

2055
01:30:33.359 --> 01:30:37.739
I know, I know 7 of 9 survives, but look at these borg bodies been

2056
01:30:37.739 --> 01:30:38.579
sucked out into space.

2057
01:30:40.500 --> 01:30:42.659
So good, isn't it?

2058
01:30:42.720 --> 01:30:45.960
Actually, Oh, that's so funny.

2059
01:30:46.020 --> 01:30:47.819
You know, Jerry Wright.

2060
01:30:47.880 --> 01:30:50.159
Jerry Ryan must have been like, what the fuck have I signed up

2061
01:30:50.159 --> 01:30:50.460
for?

2062
01:30:50.520 --> 01:30:54.000
He's being dragged along a Jeffrey's suit and all those

2063
01:30:54.000 --> 01:30:54.539
prosthetics.

2064
01:30:54.600 --> 01:30:57.899
Yeah, yeah, by her by her high heels, I think, probably.

2065
01:30:58.140 --> 01:31:03.180
But that, that little circular thing that opens in the, in the

2066
01:31:03.180 --> 01:31:06.420
side of Voyager that we never see again that is apparently just

2067
01:31:06.420 --> 01:31:11.039
there for that scene, it's the Borg ejection door that just

2068
01:31:11.039 --> 01:31:12.420
appears once.

2069
01:31:13.439 --> 01:31:16.319
The amount of times we meet the ball, you know.

2070
01:31:16.380 --> 01:31:18.060
Deploy the Borg ejection door.

2071
01:31:18.119 --> 01:31:19.319
Or get Jackson door.

2072
01:31:20.220 --> 01:31:23.880
And then this, so now we're going into fluidic space.

2073
01:31:23.939 --> 01:31:28.859
I think this fish is so weird and unknowable.

2074
01:31:28.920 --> 01:31:31.439
And instead it's just a sort of gloopy mist.

2075
01:31:31.500 --> 01:31:35.640
Yeah, we're eating kind of gel. of some sort.

2076
01:31:35.699 --> 01:31:37.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2077
01:31:37.439 --> 01:31:40.020
I think it's weirder, you know, when they go into that space with

2078
01:31:40.020 --> 01:31:40.619
no stars.

2079
01:31:40.680 --> 01:31:43.140
And it's just black, you know?

2080
01:31:43.920 --> 01:31:47.039
Yeah, it's like they're in sort of weird jelly.

2081
01:31:47.100 --> 01:31:48.300
I mean, I kind of like it.

2082
01:31:48.359 --> 01:31:50.819
It is something and it is different from what we've had.

2083
01:31:50.880 --> 01:31:52.319
Have we ever had that?

2084
01:31:52.380 --> 01:31:54.119
We go into a, yeah.

2085
01:31:54.300 --> 01:31:55.560
Jelly's all right.

2086
01:31:55.619 --> 01:31:58.260
That kind of looks like it's lime and orange.

2087
01:31:59.340 --> 01:32:02.220
But I suppose they are.

2088
01:32:02.279 --> 01:32:05.220
But like, I know Voyager is sort of airtight.

2089
01:32:05.279 --> 01:32:07.859
It'd be great, you know, if suddenly it starts seeping into the

2090
01:32:07.859 --> 01:32:08.520
ship, you know?

2091
01:32:08.699 --> 01:32:10.500
Did she?

2092
01:32:10.560 --> 01:32:15.539
Did 77 just came over the comms and ordered Commander Chakotay to

2093
01:32:15.539 --> 01:32:17.159
report to the cargo bag.

2094
01:32:17.220 --> 01:32:20.819
Nathan, that's pretty much how she's characterised for the next 4

2095
01:32:20.819 --> 01:32:21.239
years.

2096
01:32:21.300 --> 01:32:22.439
It's wonderful, isn't it?

2097
01:32:22.500 --> 01:32:23.100
It's awesome.

2098
01:32:24.119 --> 01:32:27.899
I have some much needed exposition to deliver.

2099
01:32:27.960 --> 01:32:29.880
There's loads of wonderful scenes, you know.

2100
01:32:29.939 --> 01:32:33.359
These really hot scenes between her and Bilal Torres, where she

2101
01:32:33.359 --> 01:32:36.119
just goes to engineering and just, you know, oh, well, I wanted to

2102
01:32:36.119 --> 01:32:37.380
use this part of engineering.

2103
01:32:37.439 --> 01:32:39.300
I didn't think to ask you, you know?

2104
01:32:39.359 --> 01:32:40.619
I know.

2105
01:32:40.619 --> 01:32:41.220
Yeah, yeah.

2106
01:32:41.220 --> 01:32:43.560
Because she's got...

2107
01:32:43.560 --> 01:32:47.279
Although, do you remember the scene where she says to Sarah, Sarah

2108
01:32:47.279 --> 01:32:49.140
and Tom Paris about them having sex?

2109
01:32:49.199 --> 01:32:50.760
Do remember that?

2110
01:32:50.939 --> 01:32:55.260
Where she's like, she goes, what the hell do you know what we're

2111
01:32:55.260 --> 01:32:56.340
doing in our quarters?

2112
01:32:56.399 --> 01:32:59.279
And she goes, there's nobody on deck 6 that doesn't know what's

2113
01:32:59.279 --> 01:33:00.239
going on in your order.

2114
01:33:02.279 --> 01:33:05.760
That's a great line. think I remember that.

2115
01:33:06.960 --> 01:33:09.479
Oh, even better.

2116
01:33:09.539 --> 01:33:15.060
Do you remember the best Borg line ever is when Neelix goes, they

2117
01:33:15.060 --> 01:33:17.340
will become whatever we want them to become.

2118
01:33:17.340 --> 01:33:21.119
And Bilada Torres goes, ooh, how Starfleet of you?

2119
01:33:21.180 --> 01:33:24.840
Well, which can be very funny, you know, when he wants to be.

2120
01:33:24.899 --> 01:33:25.739
Yeah, yeah.

2121
01:33:25.800 --> 01:33:26.460
Yeah.

2122
01:33:27.180 --> 01:33:28.680
Yes.

2123
01:33:28.739 --> 01:33:30.060
Gosh, she's good.

2124
01:33:30.119 --> 01:33:31.800
She's really great here.

2125
01:33:31.920 --> 01:33:34.800
She's absolutely in charge of this scene, isn't she?

2126
01:33:34.859 --> 01:33:36.000
Wow.

2127
01:33:36.060 --> 01:33:37.140
Look if she's playing against.

2128
01:33:37.199 --> 01:33:38.279
Of course she is.

2129
01:33:38.340 --> 01:33:40.859
Well, no, she's playing against she's playing against him.

2130
01:33:43.920 --> 01:33:46.619
I would have loved, I would have loved for Chewbok to have

2131
01:33:46.619 --> 01:33:47.399
just...

2132
01:33:47.399 --> 01:33:50.640
I don't want to, I don't want to do Spock again and have him half

2133
01:33:50.640 --> 01:33:51.060
human.

2134
01:33:51.119 --> 01:33:53.640
Just let him display emotion a bit more.

2135
01:33:54.119 --> 01:34:04.859
Well, no, I think that having him show warmth in his way with, I

2136
01:34:04.859 --> 01:34:08.039
just think making him Janeway's confident would have been the

2137
01:34:08.039 --> 01:34:08.880
thing to do.

2138
01:34:08.939 --> 01:34:13.500
The trouble with this is everyone's their job, you know, like, you

2139
01:34:13.500 --> 01:34:16.439
know, when it starts with my key and we have relationships between

2140
01:34:16.439 --> 01:34:17.579
ourselves and stuff like that.

2141
01:34:17.640 --> 01:34:20.399
But basically, eventually everyone's their job.

2142
01:34:20.460 --> 01:34:21.600
Oh, here we go.

2143
01:34:21.659 --> 01:34:23.399
But that relationship here we go.

2144
01:34:23.460 --> 01:34:26.399
Oh, is this where they, she gives him a dressing down.

2145
01:34:26.460 --> 01:34:28.199
She's got I hope so.

2146
01:34:28.260 --> 01:34:29.220
She should punch you in the face.

2147
01:34:29.279 --> 01:34:30.180
This is a good scene.

2148
01:34:30.239 --> 01:34:31.500
Just for how she acts there.

2149
01:34:31.739 --> 01:34:33.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2150
01:34:33.300 --> 01:34:35.520
The doctor's brought me up to speech, you go today, and I'm going

2151
01:34:35.520 --> 01:34:37.020
to tell you now you are dead.

2152
01:34:37.079 --> 01:34:39.180
It's basically what she say.

2153
01:34:39.239 --> 01:34:40.979
That would have been a lot better.

2154
01:34:41.039 --> 01:34:44.640
I do like the deactivate the thing and he kind of goes, yeah, all

2155
01:34:44.640 --> 01:34:45.359
right, I'll go.

2156
01:34:45.420 --> 01:34:46.560
I'll go.

2157
01:34:46.739 --> 01:34:48.840
This is a private moment.

2158
01:34:50.460 --> 01:34:52.260
Yeah, yeah.

2159
01:34:52.319 --> 01:34:54.000
It's so lame.

2160
01:34:54.060 --> 01:34:55.140
It's so lame.

2161
01:34:55.199 --> 01:34:57.180
Oh my god, she says, you never trust me.

2162
01:34:57.180 --> 01:34:58.439
The reasons are so poor.

2163
01:34:58.500 --> 01:35:01.979
You were just waiting for an opportunity to countermand my

2164
01:35:01.979 --> 01:35:02.460
decision.

2165
01:35:02.579 --> 01:35:03.119
Yes.

2166
01:35:03.420 --> 01:35:08.279
Yeah, it's really like all of that is good and it's fair enough.

2167
01:35:08.340 --> 01:35:11.279
Um, Yeah.

2168
01:35:11.340 --> 01:35:11.939
Wow.

2169
01:35:12.000 --> 01:35:14.520
Oh, I think that's his ace, isn't it?

2170
01:35:14.579 --> 01:35:15.720
That he says they started it.

2171
01:35:15.779 --> 01:35:18.180
They started on Species 8472.

2172
01:35:18.359 --> 01:35:19.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2173
01:35:19.619 --> 01:35:21.060
They're responsible for this.

2174
01:35:21.060 --> 01:35:22.439
And she and you want to work with them.

2175
01:35:22.500 --> 01:35:24.119
You can see her processing that.

2176
01:35:24.180 --> 01:35:25.739
Do not what I mean?

2177
01:35:25.800 --> 01:35:28.439
She takes a little moment and she processes it and walks away.

2178
01:35:28.500 --> 01:35:29.760
You know what she says?

2179
01:35:29.819 --> 01:35:31.260
It is kind of a Trump car.

2180
01:35:31.319 --> 01:35:32.220
She goes?

2181
01:35:32.279 --> 01:35:33.060
No.

2182
01:35:33.600 --> 01:35:36.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

2183
01:35:37.800 --> 01:35:39.899
She's made her decision.

2184
01:35:39.960 --> 01:35:40.859
And I, you know what?

2185
01:35:40.920 --> 01:35:41.460
I admire that.

2186
01:35:42.359 --> 01:35:45.600
There's something a bit Maggie Thatcher about her, you know.

2187
01:35:45.659 --> 01:35:47.939
She's made a she might have made a terrible decision, but she's

2188
01:35:47.939 --> 01:35:48.659
going to stick by it.

2189
01:35:48.840 --> 01:35:50.520
No, no.

2190
01:35:50.579 --> 01:35:53.279
I mean, she is sticking by the decision and she's right.

2191
01:35:53.340 --> 01:35:55.319
And do you know what I mean?

2192
01:35:55.380 --> 01:35:58.380
She's in charge and he wasn't like she didn't die.

2193
01:35:58.500 --> 01:36:00.300
He didn't take over.

2194
01:36:00.359 --> 01:36:03.960
You know, she told him to do a thing.

2195
01:36:04.020 --> 01:36:08.640
And because she was unconscious, that doesn't mean that he doesn't

2196
01:36:08.640 --> 01:36:10.199
have to do the thing, you know?

2197
01:36:10.260 --> 01:36:11.699
I did like that like.

2198
01:36:11.760 --> 01:36:14.159
It's a very voyager light, but where she goes, there's 2 wars

2199
01:36:14.159 --> 01:36:15.659
happening here out there.

2200
01:36:16.680 --> 01:36:18.180
That's a little bit shit.

2201
01:36:18.239 --> 01:36:21.359
Now we get the thing where it's just like, let's forget about it.

2202
01:36:21.420 --> 01:36:26.279
And this is like this isn't about them anymore.

2203
01:36:26.340 --> 01:36:27.420
Do you know what I mean?

2204
01:36:27.479 --> 01:36:29.760
This isn't about you and me, Chakotay.

2205
01:36:29.819 --> 01:36:33.659
This is about, you know, how the plot's working and stuff and we

2206
01:36:33.659 --> 01:36:37.380
need to show show them that our individuality is not a weakness or

2207
01:36:37.380 --> 01:36:38.460
whatever.

2208
01:36:38.520 --> 01:36:39.720
So we never resolve this.

2209
01:36:39.779 --> 01:36:42.479
We've had our moment of tension, Shakosay.

2210
01:36:42.539 --> 01:36:44.279
Now let's get together and fix the plot.

2211
01:36:44.340 --> 01:36:45.359
Yes, I know.

2212
01:36:45.420 --> 01:36:47.760
So they throw it away.

2213
01:36:47.819 --> 01:36:49.020
Like they wreck the ending.

2214
01:36:49.079 --> 01:36:53.939
Not only is the conflict is quoted in memory alpha of saying that

2215
01:36:53.939 --> 01:36:59.039
they think this, this doesn't, this gets picked up later and this

2216
01:36:59.039 --> 01:36:59.640
continues.

2217
01:36:59.699 --> 01:37:01.020
I'm like, no, it doesn't.

2218
01:37:01.079 --> 01:37:03.600
And then in the next episode, they're best mates again.

2219
01:37:03.720 --> 01:37:05.579
Yeah, yeah.

2220
01:37:05.640 --> 01:37:06.720
No, it's amazing.

2221
01:37:06.779 --> 01:37:07.260
And the same thing.

2222
01:37:07.560 --> 01:37:12.720
Equinox part 2 because they seriously clash in that one.

2223
01:37:12.720 --> 01:37:14.100
It's explosive.

2224
01:37:14.159 --> 01:37:17.819
And then in the next episode, it's what survival instinct, and

2225
01:37:17.819 --> 01:37:20.340
he's in her quarters, and they're like, well, let's go and have

2226
01:37:20.340 --> 01:37:21.420
some fun on this space station.

2227
01:37:21.479 --> 01:37:22.380
What?

2228
01:37:22.439 --> 01:37:23.100
Yeah.

2229
01:37:23.159 --> 01:37:24.960
I think that's bad.

2230
01:37:25.020 --> 01:37:32.340
And remember how strange new worlds does this where it is

2231
01:37:32.340 --> 01:37:37.260
absolutely not serialised, but the characters remember their

2232
01:37:37.260 --> 01:37:39.539
previous adventures and there are consequences in their

2233
01:37:39.539 --> 01:37:40.199
relationships.

2234
01:37:40.260 --> 01:37:42.659
But how deep Space 9 does this at the same time.

2235
01:37:42.779 --> 01:37:45.000
Yeah, which is available to them.

2236
01:37:45.060 --> 01:37:51.479
I said to you, Senator Cretak and Kira in the next episode where

2237
01:37:51.479 --> 01:37:52.560
just have a nice trip.

2238
01:37:52.619 --> 01:37:53.579
Yeah, all right, cheers.

2239
01:37:58.739 --> 01:38:01.560
Yeah, I mean, they could have done it.

2240
01:38:01.619 --> 01:38:05.520
You can still do standalone episodes and not throw away the

2241
01:38:05.520 --> 01:38:06.420
character work.

2242
01:38:06.479 --> 01:38:10.199
But they're not interested in it and they're aggressively not

2243
01:38:10.199 --> 01:38:11.039
interested in it.

2244
01:38:11.100 --> 01:38:12.420
And it's not good enough.

2245
01:38:12.479 --> 01:38:15.600
It was just passable in Star Trek the Next Generation.

2246
01:38:15.659 --> 01:38:19.140
There is one character that they allow this to happen with in

2247
01:38:19.140 --> 01:38:20.279
Voyager, and that's seven.

2248
01:38:20.340 --> 01:38:25.380
And that continuing storyline and that grudge that she has and how

2249
01:38:25.380 --> 01:38:27.359
that softens, you know.

2250
01:38:27.899 --> 01:38:32.340
I don't know if it's enough when you've got a cast of 8 to just

2251
01:38:32.340 --> 01:38:33.899
give one person, you know.

2252
01:38:33.960 --> 01:38:34.920
That's right.

2253
01:38:35.100 --> 01:38:41.340
You, you remember the Borg things on the, on the model, like on

2254
01:38:41.340 --> 01:38:44.880
the, on the exterior, the Borg modifications on the exterior of

2255
01:38:44.880 --> 01:38:48.659
the ship and how they're still there at the beginning of the

2256
01:38:48.659 --> 01:38:49.140
game?

2257
01:38:49.260 --> 01:38:52.319
That was where I got really excited and I was like, ooh.

2258
01:38:52.439 --> 01:38:55.859
Yeah, I was so disappointed when they got rid of them.

2259
01:38:55.920 --> 01:38:59.340
Like, again, you know, like I'm watching it in as close to real

2260
01:38:59.340 --> 01:39:01.680
time as the video releases allow or whatever.

2261
01:39:01.739 --> 01:39:03.300
I can't even remember how I'm watching it now.

2262
01:39:03.420 --> 01:39:06.060
Um, but I was so disappointed.

2263
01:39:06.060 --> 01:39:08.520
It's exactly the same way I failed.

2264
01:39:08.520 --> 01:39:13.020
After a time to stand in series 6 of DF 9.

2265
01:39:13.079 --> 01:39:16.140
You remember the Demo Gemadar ship that they're on, is damaged and

2266
01:39:16.140 --> 01:39:16.920
floating through space.

2267
01:39:16.979 --> 01:39:20.159
And then the next episode starts and it's still floating through

2268
01:39:20.159 --> 01:39:20.760
Dominions.

2269
01:39:20.819 --> 01:39:21.840
I'm like what is going on?

2270
01:39:21.899 --> 01:39:24.659
This is not this place. not being, you know, but obviously they

2271
01:39:24.659 --> 01:39:25.979
ran with that for 6 episodes.

2272
01:39:26.399 --> 01:39:27.779
Yeah.

2273
01:39:27.840 --> 01:39:32.100
Yeah, like a 3rd of the season, a 4 quarter of the season or

2274
01:39:32.100 --> 01:39:32.340
something.

2275
01:39:32.399 --> 01:39:36.119
It's pretty amazing But, you know, we have picked at this a lot.

2276
01:39:36.180 --> 01:39:42.899
But I still maintain, this is a good glimpse into what Voyager

2277
01:39:42.899 --> 01:39:45.359
could have been if they had some of the sort of Battle Star

2278
01:39:45.359 --> 01:39:46.439
Galactica does.

2279
01:39:46.560 --> 01:39:47.640
Yeah.

2280
01:39:47.699 --> 01:39:48.359
Yeah.

2281
01:39:48.420 --> 01:39:51.600
And it would have been, but it probably would have been more

2282
01:39:51.600 --> 01:39:53.760
exciting, a bit more suspenseful to watch.

2283
01:39:53.880 --> 01:39:58.560
Yeah, but I think, you know, if their ambition is just to be an

2284
01:39:58.560 --> 01:40:03.060
entertaining 45 minutes of Star Trek. comes out every week.

2285
01:40:03.119 --> 01:40:05.039
That's fine.

2286
01:40:05.100 --> 01:40:06.840
Well, I don't know that they do it well.

2287
01:40:06.899 --> 01:40:11.760
I think that, well, I think that Strange New World shows you that

2288
01:40:11.760 --> 01:40:15.000
there's a better version of that available, that a better version

2289
01:40:15.000 --> 01:40:15.840
of that can exist.

2290
01:40:15.899 --> 01:40:19.920
To be fair, there has only been 10 episodes of Strange New Worlds

2291
01:40:19.920 --> 01:40:22.439
and there are 179 episodes of Voyager.

2292
01:40:22.500 --> 01:40:24.300
Yeah, that is true.

2293
01:40:24.359 --> 01:40:27.239
It may it may sink in series 2 for all you know.

2294
01:40:27.300 --> 01:40:29.819
I don't think it will but you never know.

2295
01:40:29.880 --> 01:40:31.680
No, no, no.

2296
01:40:31.920 --> 01:40:33.960
But do you know what I mean?

2297
01:40:34.020 --> 01:40:39.779
Like that way of doing a show that isn't heavily serialised, I

2298
01:40:39.779 --> 01:40:41.520
think that works very well.

2299
01:40:41.579 --> 01:40:45.180
Do you remember when we go down to the ocean planet in series 5 of

2300
01:40:45.180 --> 01:40:45.659
Voyager?

2301
01:40:46.199 --> 01:40:49.739
And it's all got, it's got like a massive underworld city.

2302
01:40:49.800 --> 01:40:51.239
It looks incredible.

2303
01:40:51.300 --> 01:40:54.600
It's far more visually exciting than this influence space.

2304
01:40:54.659 --> 01:40:56.340
I actually think that this looks okay.

2305
01:40:57.180 --> 01:41:01.140
I like the I like the bioships blowing up.

2306
01:41:01.199 --> 01:41:02.220
I think they look great.

2307
01:41:02.340 --> 01:41:05.279
Jerry Roy just got a shot of Jerry with a thing coming out of her

2308
01:41:05.279 --> 01:41:05.699
eye.

2309
01:41:05.760 --> 01:41:08.819
I quite resist, putting her hands on her hip, so she's standing on

2310
01:41:08.819 --> 01:41:11.520
the bridge in her full Borg regalia.

2311
01:41:12.239 --> 01:41:16.319
She's like, I'm a powerful Borg bitch, all right?

2312
01:41:16.979 --> 01:41:18.960
So great.

2313
01:41:19.020 --> 01:41:20.340
I don't think so.

2314
01:41:20.399 --> 01:41:26.100
I noticed the simmering tension between Kate Mulgar and Jerry Ryan

2315
01:41:26.100 --> 01:41:26.279
yeah.

2316
01:41:26.340 --> 01:41:27.899
The boy is coming.

2317
01:41:28.739 --> 01:41:30.359
No, no.

2318
01:41:30.420 --> 01:41:31.800
I think it's a strength.

2319
01:41:31.859 --> 01:41:34.380
I absolutely think it's a strength.

2320
01:41:34.439 --> 01:41:38.760
But one of the things that I like about the fact that 7 has come

2321
01:41:38.760 --> 01:41:42.479
back after so many, you know, after decades and is playing the

2322
01:41:42.479 --> 01:41:47.220
character again, that Jerry's come back and is doing that, is she

2323
01:41:47.220 --> 01:41:48.180
had a miserable time.

2324
01:41:48.239 --> 01:41:49.680
Yes, you know.

2325
01:41:49.680 --> 01:41:51.539
And she does say that on the show.

2326
01:41:51.600 --> 01:41:55.260
Yeah, that this was not fun and that Kate wasn't very nice to her

2327
01:41:55.260 --> 01:41:56.100
and stuff like that.

2328
01:41:56.159 --> 01:42:02.579
And now it's, you know, she's had a great experience and has been

2329
01:42:02.579 --> 01:42:04.859
in a very good version of Star Trek.

2330
01:42:04.920 --> 01:42:07.439
You know, you know, I'm really happy about that.

2331
01:42:07.500 --> 01:42:09.180
Well, I just think as well...

2332
01:42:09.180 --> 01:42:13.800
They've come back and they've given her that sort of Kursman trick

2333
01:42:13.800 --> 01:42:17.220
naturalistic dialogue that everybody has.

2334
01:42:17.279 --> 01:42:19.800
Nobody talks like 90s trek anymore.

2335
01:42:19.859 --> 01:42:21.420
And thank God.

2336
01:42:21.600 --> 01:42:26.039
But she's still also, she also still gets, you know, colloquialisms

2337
01:42:26.039 --> 01:42:27.600
and things wrong and stuff.

2338
01:42:27.659 --> 01:42:28.560
She does.

2339
01:42:28.619 --> 01:42:30.840
I think the real punch the air moment was when she turned around

2340
01:42:30.840 --> 01:42:33.239
to, um, was it short?

2341
01:42:33.300 --> 01:42:36.060
When she turned around, she won't, no, my name is 7 of nine.

2342
01:42:36.119 --> 01:42:38.220
That was a correct moment.

2343
01:42:38.279 --> 01:42:39.479
Really good.

2344
01:42:39.600 --> 01:42:41.640
You know what, Nathan?

2345
01:42:41.760 --> 01:42:46.380
This might be a backhanded compliment to Picard series 3, but I

2346
01:42:46.380 --> 01:42:48.899
actually think 7 might have been the best thing in that season.

2347
01:42:48.960 --> 01:42:51.420
She is really good in it.

2348
01:42:51.479 --> 01:42:52.199
She is great.

2349
01:42:52.260 --> 01:42:53.760
But so is count...

2350
01:42:53.819 --> 01:42:57.000
And I'm super ple like, you know, in stark contrast to where she

2351
01:42:57.000 --> 01:42:57.600
started off.

2352
01:42:57.659 --> 01:42:58.739
Look at where she ends.

2353
01:42:58.800 --> 01:43:01.140
She's helming the flagship of the Federation.

2354
01:43:01.199 --> 01:43:02.819
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2355
01:43:02.880 --> 01:43:04.800
So it's so exciting, isn't it?

2356
01:43:04.859 --> 01:43:06.479
It's super.

2357
01:43:06.539 --> 01:43:11.039
And what is lovely is that you can watch these 4 seasons and see

2358
01:43:11.039 --> 01:43:15.060
how she got there, you know, like technically she's she's had her

2359
01:43:15.060 --> 01:43:15.960
own 7 year run now.

2360
01:43:16.020 --> 01:43:17.520
Yeah, exactly.

2361
01:43:17.579 --> 01:43:18.659
What about this?

2362
01:43:18.720 --> 01:43:23.159
What about Bridge Chakotay Scorpion?

2363
01:43:23.220 --> 01:43:24.060
Oh, I like that.

2364
01:43:24.300 --> 01:43:25.920
I do too.

2365
01:43:25.979 --> 01:43:30.899
And it's a little bit like the trick that they pull in the Sesca

2366
01:43:30.899 --> 01:43:31.319
episode.

2367
01:43:31.380 --> 01:43:32.159
What was that one?

2368
01:43:32.220 --> 01:43:38.760
The one that we did, um, uh, the changing relationship, state of

2369
01:43:38.760 --> 01:43:39.180
flux.

2370
01:43:39.239 --> 01:43:43.920
You know, where they already had this planned in the background

2371
01:43:43.920 --> 01:43:45.119
but we didn't get to see that.

2372
01:43:45.180 --> 01:43:48.960
I hate to bring this up, but one of the defining moments of

2373
01:43:48.960 --> 01:43:53.220
Babylon 5, though, is where in a moment where it all looks lost

2374
01:43:53.220 --> 01:43:57.600
and the commander goes, you know, so-and-so to so-and-so, and it

2375
01:43:57.600 --> 01:44:00.539
says a word like that, and then we cut to a load of telepaths, all

2376
01:44:00.539 --> 01:44:01.319
in a circle.

2377
01:44:01.380 --> 01:44:04.439
It's exactly the same thing. they are definitely looking at

2378
01:44:04.439 --> 01:44:06.359
Babylon 5, but it's still a cool moment.

2379
01:44:06.420 --> 01:44:09.119
But I mean, this, but this is a thing they've done before.

2380
01:44:09.180 --> 01:44:14.520
And also, it shows us that in the background that Janeway and

2381
01:44:14.520 --> 01:44:16.020
Shakota have been working together.

2382
01:44:16.079 --> 01:44:17.039
Do you know what I mean?

2383
01:44:17.100 --> 01:44:18.359
They've thought up this plan.

2384
01:44:18.359 --> 01:44:20.159
Oh, this is it?

2385
01:44:20.220 --> 01:44:24.420
He's volunteered to go along with it. disconnected from the hive.

2386
01:44:24.479 --> 01:44:26.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yep, yep.

2387
01:44:27.960 --> 01:44:31.140
Yeah, that's a great moment too.

2388
01:44:31.199 --> 01:44:34.500
And having heard Janeway coming in the background and she's got

2389
01:44:34.500 --> 01:44:37.020
her slightly dishevelled post-battle hair happening.

2390
01:44:37.079 --> 01:44:38.460
Which always looks great.

2391
01:44:38.520 --> 01:44:39.600
Wait for the year of hell.

2392
01:44:39.659 --> 01:44:42.720
You know we're in the shit then when her hair's all over the

2393
01:44:42.720 --> 01:44:42.840
place.

2394
01:44:43.439 --> 01:44:46.680
This is actually my favourite Janeway hair.

2395
01:44:46.739 --> 01:44:47.399
This one.

2396
01:44:47.460 --> 01:44:50.100
Oh, I like it when it's down and short.

2397
01:44:50.340 --> 01:44:54.720
No, she just looks too much like any American woman on TV.

2398
01:44:54.779 --> 01:44:55.500
That's the problem.

2399
01:44:55.619 --> 01:45:00.119
I like it when it's longer and tied up at the back. or yeah, that's

2400
01:45:00.119 --> 01:45:02.039
better and that's better than the season one here.

2401
01:45:02.100 --> 01:45:06.960
Oh, look, and now we're back in in. oh I love this.

2402
01:45:07.020 --> 01:45:12.539
In fact, I think the shame is where they explain what's going on

2403
01:45:12.539 --> 01:45:13.560
in dialogue.

2404
01:45:13.619 --> 01:45:18.180
I think the idea that she's sitting in Da Vinci's study, writing

2405
01:45:18.180 --> 01:45:20.819
out her captain's log by hand.

2406
01:45:20.880 --> 01:45:24.840
And because she's in a computer simulation, that works just as

2407
01:45:24.840 --> 01:45:26.520
well as dictating it does.

2408
01:45:26.579 --> 01:45:31.079
And because she's had days of Borg and shit, she just wants to do

2409
01:45:31.079 --> 01:45:36.060
an analogue, you know, like captain's log, but then she has to

2410
01:45:36.060 --> 01:45:40.140
explain it to us because we're Star Trek fans and we can't do

2411
01:45:40.140 --> 01:45:40.680
subtext.

2412
01:45:40.739 --> 01:45:42.239
It feels more human somehow.

2413
01:45:42.359 --> 01:45:45.899
You've even got your hand on your face like she does.

2414
01:45:45.960 --> 01:45:49.680
But I think that's a shame, that is a problem with Star Trek

2415
01:45:49.680 --> 01:45:54.300
because I was there admiring how great that scene was only to then

2416
01:45:54.300 --> 01:45:59.579
run into Janeway, explaining the scene to Chacosa, like we were

2417
01:45:59.579 --> 01:45:59.939
all.

2418
01:46:00.359 --> 01:46:03.180
I think this is pre- we trust the audience to keep up.

2419
01:46:03.239 --> 01:46:04.619
Yeah, 0 yeah.

2420
01:46:04.680 --> 01:46:06.720
I think that's a big problem with 90s Streak as well.

2421
01:46:06.779 --> 01:46:07.859
It doesn't do some text.

2422
01:46:07.920 --> 01:46:08.880
It doesn't do nuance.

2423
01:46:08.880 --> 01:46:09.899
It doesn't matter.

2424
01:46:09.899 --> 01:46:11.159
That's the worst culprit for that.

2425
01:46:11.220 --> 01:46:13.739
They've got loads of plot they've got to remind people of in every

2426
01:46:13.739 --> 01:46:14.100
episode.

2427
01:46:14.159 --> 01:46:17.340
Not a time we destroyed that shipyard.

2428
01:46:17.939 --> 01:46:20.399
Yeah, it is a bit of a shame.

2429
01:46:20.460 --> 01:46:21.479
It is a bit of shame.

2430
01:46:21.539 --> 01:46:27.659
In retrospect, I guess the fact that the doctor has a handy Borg

2431
01:46:27.659 --> 01:46:32.640
hand lying around in part one without us having a lengthy

2432
01:46:32.640 --> 01:46:35.520
explanation about how it got there is a bit of a mercy.

2433
01:46:35.579 --> 01:46:38.039
You should be thanking our lucky start.

2434
01:46:38.340 --> 01:46:40.859
I mean, I'll tell you what, we go.

2435
01:46:40.920 --> 01:46:42.539
You and I, we...

2436
01:46:42.539 --> 01:46:43.140
Fuck off.

2437
01:46:43.199 --> 01:46:46.079
Disobeying your orders was one of the most difficult things I ever

2438
01:46:46.079 --> 01:46:46.560
had to do.

2439
01:46:46.619 --> 01:46:50.279
No, the point is that you didn't have to do it, Chakotay, you big

2440
01:46:50.279 --> 01:46:50.640
prick.

2441
01:46:50.699 --> 01:46:51.720
I didn't do it.

2442
01:46:51.720 --> 01:46:53.340
Without what she said.

2443
01:46:53.399 --> 01:46:54.300
You were like, what?

2444
01:46:54.420 --> 01:46:55.140
Yeah, that's right.

2445
01:46:55.199 --> 01:46:56.579
Because I'm conscious now.

2446
01:46:56.640 --> 01:46:58.319
You just sort of eased straight into it.

2447
01:46:58.380 --> 01:46:59.699
I'm taking control.

2448
01:47:00.060 --> 01:47:04.859
Yeah, no, he walks out of Sick Bay rubbing his hands waiting to

2449
01:47:04.859 --> 01:47:06.180
countermand something.

2450
01:47:06.239 --> 01:47:07.140
It's terrible.

2451
01:47:07.199 --> 01:47:09.060
This is a great ending on seven.

2452
01:47:09.180 --> 01:47:10.020
Yeah.

2453
01:47:10.079 --> 01:47:12.600
Actually, no, it's very unfortunately, you know, because you've

2454
01:47:12.600 --> 01:47:16.260
got such big boobs, the close-up on her here.

2455
01:47:16.319 --> 01:47:17.220
We're not looking at her face.

2456
01:47:17.460 --> 01:47:22.739
But I really, really like that shot because that's just how it

2457
01:47:22.739 --> 01:47:23.100
ends.

2458
01:47:23.159 --> 01:47:24.899
It just ends with that shot on her.

2459
01:47:24.960 --> 01:47:29.340
So it's just ending inviting us to say what's going to happen

2460
01:47:29.340 --> 01:47:29.640
next.

2461
01:47:29.699 --> 01:47:32.640
And I think even though we just closes on that question.

2462
01:47:32.819 --> 01:47:35.699
I think that's a really bold move.

2463
01:47:35.760 --> 01:47:38.340
They could have brought in any kind of a regular.

2464
01:47:38.399 --> 01:47:41.760
You know, we popped off to this planet and it's the Beaumar of the

2465
01:47:41.760 --> 01:47:44.279
week or something, you know, that's going to hang around.

2466
01:47:44.340 --> 01:47:50.039
But it's, it's something that Star Trek has done before and that's

2467
01:47:50.039 --> 01:47:55.979
making Wharf a regular on the bridge in series one of Star Trek

2468
01:47:55.979 --> 01:47:58.140
the Next Generation when he's a Klingon.

2469
01:47:58.199 --> 01:48:02.640
And then there's a Ferengi on the bridge in all good things.

2470
01:48:03.239 --> 01:48:04.739
You know.

2471
01:48:04.859 --> 01:48:10.859
So we bring people who were our enemies aboard, like we make

2472
01:48:10.859 --> 01:48:11.760
connections.

2473
01:48:11.819 --> 01:48:15.239
And so doing it with the Borg is absolutely a thing that had to

2474
01:48:15.239 --> 01:48:15.600
happen.

2475
01:48:15.659 --> 01:48:17.520
And I think they do it well.

2476
01:48:17.579 --> 01:48:19.979
It's a premise with a character.

2477
01:48:20.039 --> 01:48:23.220
But it's just, it's inbuilt with interesting things.

2478
01:48:23.279 --> 01:48:25.739
It's very unvoyage-like.

2479
01:48:26.399 --> 01:48:28.260
Yeah, yeah.

2480
01:48:28.319 --> 01:48:29.579
And they really exploit it.

2481
01:48:29.640 --> 01:48:30.840
They properly exploit it.

2482
01:48:30.899 --> 01:48:34.439
Like they know that they're onto something really good.

2483
01:48:34.500 --> 01:48:39.779
They spend a lot of time telling stories about her and it gives

2484
01:48:39.779 --> 01:48:40.800
the show a shot in the arm.

2485
01:48:40.859 --> 01:48:44.699
I think it does for series 4 and series five.

2486
01:48:44.760 --> 01:48:46.500
I think comes 6 and 7.

2487
01:48:46.619 --> 01:48:50.520
The fatigue starts to set in because they're doing...

2488
01:48:50.520 --> 01:48:51.600
What emotional...

2489
01:48:51.600 --> 01:48:53.159
What we do with 7 this week, you know?

2490
01:48:53.220 --> 01:48:57.000
It's like people complain about with Ezrin, so in 7 of DS9, they're

2491
01:48:57.000 --> 01:48:58.800
in one year, so they gave them a lot to do.

2492
01:48:58.859 --> 01:49:00.359
But, yeah.

2493
01:49:00.420 --> 01:49:02.520
Certainly for more than five.

2494
01:49:02.520 --> 01:49:07.020
Well, look, can I, um, can I finish this episode with a quote from

2495
01:49:07.020 --> 01:49:08.579
Kate Kate Mulgrew herself?

2496
01:49:08.640 --> 01:49:10.020
Yeah.

2497
01:49:10.020 --> 01:49:11.399
Our queen.

2498
01:49:11.460 --> 01:49:13.500
Oh, what's about the same time?

2499
01:49:13.560 --> 01:49:15.779
Our queen of Star Trek Voyager.

2500
01:49:15.899 --> 01:49:21.119
So she says, Scorpion part 2 is probably my favourite episode of

2501
01:49:21.119 --> 01:49:21.779
all time.

2502
01:49:21.840 --> 01:49:26.159
It's a beautiful episode on almost every conceivable level.

2503
01:49:26.220 --> 01:49:29.399
Everybody had something extremely important to do and the

2504
01:49:29.399 --> 01:49:30.539
conflicts were rare.

2505
01:49:30.779 --> 01:49:33.600
Rare and intense.

2506
01:49:33.659 --> 01:49:37.260
The cruise decisions were divided and epic, and the result is, of

2507
01:49:37.260 --> 01:49:40.680
course, that Janeway is the 1st captain in history at Starfleet to

2508
01:49:40.680 --> 01:49:43.920
actually believe that she can make a connection with the Borg.

2509
01:49:43.920 --> 01:49:45.659
And she has.

2510
01:49:45.720 --> 01:49:46.859
I've got this girl.

2511
01:49:46.920 --> 01:49:49.020
Oh, that sounds a bit biting, doesn't it?

2512
01:49:49.140 --> 01:49:51.300
I've got this girl on my ship now.

2513
01:49:51.359 --> 01:49:54.300
So Scorpion part 2 is terrific.

2514
01:49:54.420 --> 01:49:56.760
Well, I don't think it's quite that good.

2515
01:49:56.819 --> 01:50:04.140
But I think, you know, like, she's right that this is a huge, a

2516
01:50:04.140 --> 01:50:07.680
huge development, a brilliant one that does improve the show

2517
01:50:07.680 --> 01:50:08.699
immensely, I think.

2518
01:50:08.760 --> 01:50:11.819
What's intriguing is, of course, her feelings change.

2519
01:50:11.880 --> 01:50:15.180
That's the series goes on and she realises that this fabulous

2520
01:50:15.180 --> 01:50:19.260
actress. has come in and practically usurped the show.

2521
01:50:19.500 --> 01:50:21.659
Yeah, yeah.

2522
01:50:21.720 --> 01:50:22.500
Yeah.

2523
01:50:22.560 --> 01:50:25.859
I think, like I, you know, you don't know what that workplace was

2524
01:50:25.859 --> 01:50:31.079
like or what things felt like it does seem very ungenerous of her

2525
01:50:31.079 --> 01:50:38.039
but I do think the fact that both Kate and Jerry are back playing

2526
01:50:38.039 --> 01:50:41.880
their characters again in this new iteration of Star Trek.

2527
01:50:41.939 --> 01:50:43.079
Do you know what I mean?

2528
01:50:43.140 --> 01:50:44.039
Like that makes me happy.

2529
01:50:44.100 --> 01:50:45.720
It doesn't surprise me at all.

2530
01:50:45.840 --> 01:50:50.460
Alex Kursman looked at Voyager and said, what can we cherry pick

2531
01:50:50.460 --> 01:50:52.800
from this show, Janeway and 7?

2532
01:50:52.859 --> 01:50:54.300
They are the best things in this show.

2533
01:50:54.359 --> 01:50:57.420
Let's exploit them in our new, our new iteration of Trek.

2534
01:50:57.539 --> 01:51:02.159
Although we do have some of the medium Robert as well.

2535
01:51:02.279 --> 01:51:04.739
And Tim Ross, the prodigy.

2536
01:51:04.800 --> 01:51:06.840
Oh, we've had Tim Ross?

2537
01:51:06.899 --> 01:51:07.260
Yes of course.

2538
01:51:07.260 --> 01:51:08.279
It was wonderful, wasn't it?

2539
01:51:08.279 --> 01:51:11.220
Methinks Alex Kurtzman prefers Voyages to Deep Space and the One

2540
01:51:11.220 --> 01:51:11.460
you know.

2541
01:51:11.520 --> 01:51:13.979
Well, maybe, maybe.

2542
01:51:14.039 --> 01:51:15.600
It'd be interesting to know.

2543
01:51:15.659 --> 01:51:19.920
It'd be nice to see more than just Kira and Quark back.

2544
01:51:19.979 --> 01:51:24.000
What I will say is this episode, I'm watching on Netflix, so

2545
01:51:24.000 --> 01:51:29.460
immediately the gift started, and that episode starts with, as you

2546
01:51:29.460 --> 01:51:33.239
say, Voyager with the Borg alterations on the ship, and then a

2547
01:51:33.239 --> 01:51:37.319
very slow plan around that cargo bay, and all the Borg equipment

2548
01:51:37.319 --> 01:51:39.420
and then it finally lands on 7 of 9.

2549
01:51:39.659 --> 01:51:42.300
And it does feel like a mission statement.

2550
01:51:42.359 --> 01:51:42.960
It's not.

2551
01:51:43.560 --> 01:51:44.819
And it does feel like it.

2552
01:51:44.880 --> 01:51:45.600
Yeah.

2553
01:51:45.659 --> 01:51:49.380
Well, I guess it's a way of retelling it's better than a kind of

2554
01:51:49.380 --> 01:51:52.380
previously on Star Trek Voyager.

2555
01:51:52.439 --> 01:51:53.760
It's just here's where we are.

2556
01:51:53.819 --> 01:51:57.600
This is what we've done to the show in the last episode and I

2557
01:51:57.600 --> 01:51:58.560
think that's super interesting.

2558
01:51:58.619 --> 01:52:03.300
As a sort of two-part episode in its own right, there's definitely

2559
01:52:03.300 --> 01:52:04.199
flaws here.

2560
01:52:04.260 --> 01:52:08.159
I think it's really exciting and it's it's, you know, a good

2561
01:52:08.159 --> 01:52:08.460
watch.

2562
01:52:08.640 --> 01:52:12.180
As a hinge in Voyager's Run.

2563
01:52:12.420 --> 01:52:15.960
And in a slight change of direction with the regulars.

2564
01:52:16.020 --> 01:52:20.220
Maybe, maybe the best moment in the series.

2565
01:52:26.279 --> 01:52:31.079
So it's the end of our episode and it's time for us to choose what

2566
01:52:31.079 --> 01:52:32.640
to watch for next time.

2567
01:52:32.699 --> 01:52:39.119
I was the one who rolled Scorpion part 2 last week and so it's

2568
01:52:39.119 --> 01:52:44.579
Joe's turn on untitled Star Trek project.com slash randomiser.

2569
01:52:44.640 --> 01:52:47.939
Tell us what series we're choosing from.

2570
01:52:48.000 --> 01:52:49.199
I know.

2571
01:52:53.279 --> 01:52:56.760
It's Star Trek, Strange New World.

2572
01:52:56.819 --> 01:52:58.260
No, it's...

2573
01:52:58.260 --> 01:53:01.680
Oh, that would be...

2574
01:53:01.739 --> 01:53:03.840
It does end with that one, though.

2575
01:53:03.899 --> 01:53:05.159
It does end with that.

2576
01:53:05.279 --> 01:53:09.479
It takes that original series music and fucking ace, is it?

2577
01:53:09.539 --> 01:53:10.260
Yeah, yeah.

2578
01:53:10.260 --> 01:53:13.380
No, it's Star Trek, the original series, and I have chosen that

2579
01:53:13.380 --> 01:53:16.739
because, one, we always have a blast when we talk about it.

2580
01:53:16.859 --> 01:53:18.960
I mean, Shatler's in there, you know?

2581
01:53:19.020 --> 01:53:22.020
But two, we haven't done it for a while.

2582
01:53:22.079 --> 01:53:25.020
It feels like quite a while since we've been back there.

2583
01:53:25.079 --> 01:53:26.460
Yeah.

2584
01:53:26.520 --> 01:53:27.720
Yep, all right.

2585
01:53:27.779 --> 01:53:28.380
That'd be great.

2586
01:53:28.439 --> 01:53:30.720
Let's do that Hey, so I'm going to press it.

2587
01:53:30.779 --> 01:53:31.619
Okay, press the button.

2588
01:53:31.680 --> 01:53:33.779
Oh Jesus Christ.

2589
01:53:33.840 --> 01:53:36.119
I'll set you off mic.

2590
01:53:36.180 --> 01:53:36.899
I wanted a dud.

2591
01:53:37.319 --> 01:53:38.939
Oh, yeah.

2592
01:53:39.000 --> 01:53:39.960
What have we got?

2593
01:53:40.020 --> 01:53:44.159
Your random Star Trek original series episode is season three

2594
01:53:44.159 --> 01:53:47.039
episode 20, The Way to Eden.

2595
01:53:47.039 --> 01:53:52.260
Is that the one with the hippies?

2596
01:53:52.920 --> 01:53:54.359
Yeah.

2597
01:53:54.420 --> 01:53:56.039
Yeah, isn't it?

2598
01:53:56.100 --> 01:53:57.479
Dr. Severn or something?

2599
01:53:57.539 --> 01:53:59.220
Like it's just.

2600
01:53:59.279 --> 01:54:01.079
All right, I'll press it again.

2601
01:54:01.140 --> 01:54:02.819
Oh, trouble boy triples.

2602
01:54:02.880 --> 01:54:03.779
We've already done that one.

2603
01:54:03.899 --> 01:54:04.979
Okay, let's do that.

2604
01:54:05.039 --> 01:54:07.020
I'd happily watch that again, you know.

2605
01:54:07.079 --> 01:54:09.300
Yeah, we not doing it again.

2606
01:54:09.359 --> 01:54:12.779
Okay, episode, sorry, season two, episode 14.

2607
01:54:13.020 --> 01:54:14.340
Wolf in the fold.

2608
01:54:15.060 --> 01:54:17.039
I don't know what that is.

2609
01:54:17.159 --> 01:54:19.560
I have literally no idea what that is.

2610
01:54:19.619 --> 01:54:20.520
Isn't that terrible?

2611
01:54:20.579 --> 01:54:22.020
It could be good.

2612
01:54:22.319 --> 01:54:26.220
It's not the wolf inside, which is an episode of Discovery about

2613
01:54:26.220 --> 01:54:28.439
how Ash is secretly the Klingon vogue.

2614
01:54:28.560 --> 01:54:30.359
Are you going to bring this up and have a look?

2615
01:54:30.359 --> 01:54:31.800
And then edit it.

2616
01:54:31.800 --> 01:54:32.760
So we look really clever.

2617
01:54:32.819 --> 01:54:33.899
Okay, let's do that.

2618
01:54:33.960 --> 01:54:34.319
Yep.

2619
01:54:34.380 --> 01:54:39.000
I just looked at the Wikipedia summary and I am none the wiser.

2620
01:54:39.060 --> 01:54:42.060
I may just possibly have never seen this one.

2621
01:54:42.119 --> 01:54:46.560
So I don't know what its reception is and I didn't want to read

2622
01:54:46.560 --> 01:54:49.439
too much of it in case I kind of spoiled myself.

2623
01:54:49.500 --> 01:54:52.859
So I think we just do it.

2624
01:54:52.920 --> 01:54:53.399
What do you think?

2625
01:54:53.460 --> 01:54:54.239
Could be fun.

2626
01:54:54.300 --> 01:54:55.260
Could be a disaster.

2627
01:54:55.319 --> 01:54:57.539
Oh, I have no idea either.

2628
01:54:57.600 --> 01:54:59.399
So we are going in completely blind.

2629
01:54:59.460 --> 01:55:01.079
Okay, let's just do that.

2630
01:55:01.140 --> 01:55:02.579
Is there a synopsis?

2631
01:55:02.640 --> 01:55:03.899
Is there any clue what this is about?

2632
01:55:03.960 --> 01:55:08.460
There's something about a sort of weird incorporeal entity that's

2633
01:55:08.460 --> 01:55:11.880
super evil and inspires murderers and stuff.

2634
01:55:12.000 --> 01:55:13.319
I'm not sure.

2635
01:55:13.380 --> 01:55:14.640
So I don't know.

2636
01:55:14.699 --> 01:55:15.899
I don't know.

2637
01:55:15.960 --> 01:55:20.159
And I don't want to read anymore because if it is something that I

2638
01:55:20.159 --> 01:55:23.399
haven't seen, then I want to go in blind.

2639
01:55:23.399 --> 01:55:25.079
I mean, we've done...

2640
01:55:25.079 --> 01:55:27.420
We've wrote this randomiser plenty of times.

2641
01:55:27.539 --> 01:55:30.300
There's been a few times where you haven't known the episode and I

2642
01:55:30.300 --> 01:55:31.260
haven't known the episode.

2643
01:55:31.319 --> 01:55:34.199
I don't think there's ever been a time where both of us are

2644
01:55:34.199 --> 01:55:35.340
completely baffled.

2645
01:55:35.460 --> 01:55:36.659
Yeah.

2646
01:55:36.720 --> 01:55:41.399
Well, like I said, I think I've seen most of original Star Trek

2647
01:55:41.399 --> 01:55:45.119
and I've seen major ones and there are ones that I know have been

2648
01:55:45.119 --> 01:55:46.619
kind of on in the background.

2649
01:55:46.680 --> 01:55:49.800
But you know, for instance, when we did Spectre of the Gun, I had

2650
01:55:49.800 --> 01:55:53.760
no idea how good it was, even though I was certain that I had seen

2651
01:55:53.760 --> 01:55:54.720
it at some point.

2652
01:55:54.779 --> 01:55:57.479
But this doesn't ring a bell at all.

2653
01:55:57.539 --> 01:55:59.100
So I think that we just do it.

2654
01:55:59.159 --> 01:56:03.359
This is a terra incognita. think if it was an absolute classic, we

2655
01:56:03.359 --> 01:56:04.560
would know about it, wouldn't we?

2656
01:56:04.619 --> 01:56:06.000
And if it was a dub.

2657
01:56:06.060 --> 01:56:08.039
So I've got a feeling this is going to be sort of mid-range

2658
01:56:08.039 --> 01:56:09.359
original series.

2659
01:56:09.420 --> 01:56:09.960
It was a road one.

2660
01:56:10.020 --> 01:56:10.859
Well, we'll see.

2661
01:56:10.920 --> 01:56:11.460
Let's see.

2662
01:56:11.520 --> 01:56:12.300
Let's find out.

2663
01:56:12.359 --> 01:56:13.020
Okay.

2664
01:56:13.079 --> 01:56:13.979
Exciting.

2665
01:56:22.619 --> 01:56:26.640
You've been listening to untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

2666
01:56:26.640 --> 01:56:27.840
and Nathan Bottomley.

2667
01:56:27.899 --> 01:56:31.020
We're online at Untitled Star Trek Project.com where you can find

2668
01:56:31.020 --> 01:56:34.079
links to our Twitter, Mastodon, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

2669
01:56:34.140 --> 01:56:38.220
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Sisrin, and the theme was composed

2670
01:56:38.220 --> 01:56:39.659
by Cameron Lahn.

2671
01:56:39.720 --> 01:56:43.859
This episode was recorded on the 2nd of May 2023 and released on

2672
01:56:43.859 --> 01:56:44.819
the 12th of May.

2673
01:56:44.880 --> 01:56:49.079
We'll see you next time for Star Trek the original series, Wolf in

2674
01:56:49.079 --> 01:56:49.500
the Fold.

2675
01:57:08.460 --> 01:57:11.520
Oh, I've got no idea, either.

2676
01:57:11.579 --> 01:57:12.659
I hope it's dismal.

2677
01:57:14.520 --> 01:57:19.800
It does look like there might be lots of violence against women.

2678
01:57:19.920 --> 01:57:21.779
Lieutenant Kyle.

2679
01:57:22.739 --> 01:57:25.979
Oh, Lieutenant Kyle.

2680
01:57:26.039 --> 01:57:30.840
So, you know, there's Sexy Lieutenant Kyle, the operator, the

2681
01:57:30.840 --> 01:57:33.420
transporter operator in Stranger World.

2682
01:57:34.199 --> 01:57:36.720
A little sort of Asian Twink.

2683
01:57:36.779 --> 01:57:41.579
Well, there is a transporter operator called Lieutenant Kyle, but

2684
01:57:41.579 --> 01:57:45.960
in Star Trek, he's an old white guy.

2685
01:57:48.300 --> 01:57:51.420
I'm just gonna have a quick I'm not going to look at the detail

2686
01:57:51.420 --> 01:57:55.500
but I'm just have a quick look on jammers, just to see what he

2687
01:57:55.500 --> 01:57:55.979
wrote.

2688
01:57:56.039 --> 01:57:56.880
Oh, what does he give it?

2689
01:58:00.420 --> 01:58:02.100
Where is it?

2690
01:58:02.159 --> 01:58:03.000
Wolf in the Fold.

2691
01:58:03.060 --> 01:58:03.899
Three stars.

2692
01:58:04.619 --> 01:58:09.300
Oh, so immediately before trials and trip, uh, Travel with

2693
01:58:09.300 --> 01:58:09.779
Tribles.

2694
01:58:09.840 --> 01:58:12.239
At four, 3 out of four.

2695
01:58:12.779 --> 01:58:14.220
Okay.

2696
01:58:14.279 --> 01:58:15.060
Oh, well.

2697
01:58:15.119 --> 01:58:18.479
Although the plot is a little bit on the fantastic side, well, we

2698
01:58:18.479 --> 01:58:18.840
like that.

2699
01:58:18.899 --> 01:58:20.760
Uh, blah, blah, blah.

2700
01:58:20.819 --> 01:58:21.600
This is never explained.

2701
01:58:21.659 --> 01:58:23.220
The story pulls itself together nicely.

2702
01:58:23.279 --> 01:58:25.800
Vital clues in the database.

2703
01:58:25.859 --> 01:58:30.359
Yeah, it sounds sort of trad, trad, trad, TOS.

2704
01:58:30.960 --> 01:58:35.760
Solid, a solid, interesting murder investigation with a few neat

2705
01:58:35.760 --> 01:58:36.180
twists.

2706
01:58:36.239 --> 01:58:36.720
Okay.

2707
01:58:36.720 --> 01:58:37.260
Okay.

2708
01:58:38.159 --> 01:58:40.739
So it'll be like darkling.

2709
01:58:40.979 --> 01:58:43.739
Oh, no, I have heard of this one.

2710
01:58:43.800 --> 01:58:45.539
This is the one where Scotty is accused of murder.

2711
01:58:46.260 --> 01:58:47.640
Yeah.

2712
01:58:47.699 --> 01:58:49.500
I've heard of it.

2713
01:58:49.560 --> 01:58:50.640
Yeah, I've never seen it.

2714
01:58:50.699 --> 01:58:52.859
Oh, well, I've got no idea.

2715
01:58:52.920 --> 01:58:53.640
I'm intrigued.

2716
01:58:54.180 --> 01:58:57.239
I bet there'll be images that I recognise.

2717
01:58:57.300 --> 01:58:57.960
Do you know what I mean?

2718
01:58:58.020 --> 01:59:00.659
I'm sure there'll be moments that I, or, you know, would sort of

2719
01:59:00.659 --> 01:59:03.779
say, oh, they make fun of this scene in that episode of Lower

2720
01:59:03.779 --> 01:59:05.220
Decks, and I always wondered what was going on.

2721
01:59:05.279 --> 01:59:06.840
I generally, what's his name?

2722
01:59:06.899 --> 01:59:07.319
Duhan.

2723
01:59:07.380 --> 01:59:07.859
James Dew.

2724
01:59:07.920 --> 01:59:10.439
I generally find when they write it for comedies, great.

2725
01:59:10.500 --> 01:59:12.899
And when they're writing for drama, it's less good.

2726
01:59:12.960 --> 01:59:13.619
It's terrible.

2727
01:59:13.680 --> 01:59:14.760
Yes, it's not very good.

2728
01:59:14.880 --> 01:59:18.359
So we might see some seriously terrible action in this.

2729
01:59:18.539 --> 01:59:19.979
Yeah.

2730
01:59:20.640 --> 01:59:23.520
I know this ship like the back of my hand.

2731
01:59:24.239 --> 01:59:26.100
Yeah, that's funny.

2732
01:59:27.539 --> 01:59:31.319
Do you remember there was that there was like a...

2733
01:59:33.239 --> 01:59:37.920
It was like a lot of the Star Trek videos and stuff that were

2734
01:59:37.920 --> 01:59:45.119
released in the 90s had had like intercutting between original

2735
01:59:45.119 --> 01:59:48.659
Trek, the films, Star Trek, Voyager and stuff like that.

2736
01:59:48.720 --> 01:59:52.439
And I remember that scene of him saying, it's from Star Trek V.

2737
01:59:52.500 --> 01:59:54.840
I remember that as well, in the trailer.

2738
01:59:54.899 --> 01:59:55.500
Yeah, yeah.

2739
01:59:55.560 --> 01:59:56.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2740
01:59:56.520 --> 01:59:58.439
And Cisco goes over and over again.

2741
01:59:58.500 --> 02:00:01.319
Don't know what you're missing. in one of them.

2742
02:00:01.380 --> 02:00:01.979
I remember that.

2743
02:00:02.159 --> 02:00:03.899
That's right.

2744
02:00:04.020 --> 02:00:07.079
That's awesome I bet someone has that somewhere up on you.

2745
02:00:07.140 --> 02:00:08.579
Fine crew, Mr. Chevac.

2746
02:00:08.640 --> 02:00:09.779
I've got to get them home.

2747
02:00:10.079 --> 02:00:12.180
And then that bit as well.

2748
02:00:12.359 --> 02:00:14.100
Awesome.

2749
02:00:14.100 --> 02:00:16.380
One of the things you remember.

2750
02:00:16.619 --> 02:00:20.460
Not vital things, it could be of use to your life, but the trailer

2751
02:00:20.460 --> 02:00:23.100
for Star Trek in the 90s.

2752
02:00:23.159 --> 02:00:25.500
From the 90s, like literally.

2753
02:00:25.800 --> 02:00:27.180
Crazy.

2754
02:00:27.239 --> 02:00:27.600
Wow.

2755
02:00:27.720 --> 02:00:29.460
Ai, ai, ai.

2756
02:00:29.460 --> 02:00:29.819
All right.

2757
02:00:29.939 --> 02:00:31.680
Well that was fun.

2758
02:00:31.979 --> 02:00:36.239
Yeah, I think I think we kept that rolling for 2 episodes.