WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 21:35:01

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Hey, Joe. Hello there.

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Hey, so we are back and we are back straight in tonight's track.

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It's the 1st season of Deep Space Nine. and it's the 15th episode

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probably, and we are looking at progress, which is or has always

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been a bit of a favourite of mine, I think.

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It's always been one that I've admired a lot after watching it

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this week.

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It has catapulted itself into a favourite of mine.

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I thought this was really, really good.

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So I don't think it's a top tier Star Trek episode, but I think it

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is a very enjoyable one and one that's very competently done.

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I found that...

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So the thing I remember about progress is, of course, the

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relationship between Kira and Brian Keith.

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Gorgeous.

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Yeah, so Brian Keith is huge.

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So he was really big on TV in the sort of 1950s and 1960s.

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And what I remember is when I was a kid and it was like school

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holidays or something and I would switch the telly on to watch

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something at 9 in the morning, there would be a show called A

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Family Affair, or no, just called Family Affair, and it was like

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Brian Keith was the father, and then there was Sebastian Cabot as

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Mr. French, who was their butler or something.

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And I remember it really well.

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I can't remember anything that happened in any episode, but I do

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remember his name and I certainly remember his face.

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He's got a very definite look.

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And so I think I probably recognised him when I 1st saw him in

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this and he's a get, I think.

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I'm coming to the conclusion that there are 2 types of guest actor

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in 90s trek. okay?

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You've either got bad ones.

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You've got the sort of murder she wrote of the week actor that

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comes in and is a bit wooden and a bit robotic.

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A bit like that woman in the one with the crystalline entity and I

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know you love her.

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I actually like that.

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She's so fucking wooden.

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She cannot display an emotion at all.

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And then you've got people like Harris Eulin into it and Brian

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Keith in progress who are actors that have acted for 60 plus years

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and can, you know, can come in, step into a role and inhabit it as

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if they have played that role their entire lives, which is exactly

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what he does here.

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He was so good in this.

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Yeah, I think it's really terrific.

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And I think, you know, mentioning the guy in duet.

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Like, I think, you know, Kurtwood Smith in Year of Hell.

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Mark Harelick in Counterpoint.

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You know, Matt Fruer, is it?

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In a matter of time.

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That was supposed to be Robin Williams, you know, that was written

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for Robin Williams, and he was going to do it right at the last

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minute and then a movie came up and he couldn't do it. he was

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pissed about that.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And I've always quite liked that version of Star Trek where they

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get someone in and they have a major role.

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Do you remember when we had Lawrence Pressman in 2nd skin as

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Kira's dad.

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That's another good example.

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Yeah, yeah.

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If you sort of go along, there's usually sort of 2 or 3 per season

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of each show where they brought in just a brilliant actor. to play

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one of these roles.

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But then you pair Brian Keefe up with then a visitor.

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Yeah.

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So a bit of trivia here.

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Michael Piller is quoted as saying that basically they lost sight

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Akira in the 1st half of season one.

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So they had her sort of fiery in emissary.

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Then they did pass prologue and then she doesn't get another

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episode until this point.

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Oh, wow.

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And she's just sort of angry, Kira, you know, like a move along

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home where she's like, you know, added not sign up for this, you

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know, and all this sort of, you know, express rage.

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And so they really wanted to write an episode that focussed on her

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as an administrator, post-terrorist, and they lean into that here

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brilliantly, are they?

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Yeah, so the one thing about it, though, is that I think it is

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rather diluted by the fact that there is a B plot, and I think the

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B plot is fantastic and super agreeable, and it's one of the

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things.

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Yeah, it's really great.

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And they're kids, like Jake is a child.

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Like, it's...

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You only had to say to it.

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When I said to you, what's the B plot for this?

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All you had to say to me was self-sealing stem bolts.

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And I was like, ah, yes, the no J consortium.

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Yes.

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And that's adorable, but it is really linear and it doesn't

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actually kind of go anywhere.

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Like there's no there's no reversals or anything.

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It's just fun.

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It's hang time. and it's...

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I was watching it, going, how the fuck is this land and these

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bolts going to sort of sneak into the apron?

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And then it never does.

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It's just we're hanging out with Jake and Nog for and I said to

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you, I love anything in series one, 2, and 3 with Jake and Nog

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where we're just hanging out with them on the station and having

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an adventure.

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Do you know there is one slight thing where they do kind of

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dovetail, but no one seems to notice and nothing gets made of it

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is that the Bajoran government wants to buy the land.

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Yeah, right. to do something, you know, and everyone else is sold

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but but they haven't.

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And so now they're going to sell at a big price.

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And so that's a little bit like what's happening on this moon.

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But it never kind of, you know, that's not a thing that they do at

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this point in Star Trek.

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I also wonder too, I'm not sure entirely about all aspects of the

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A plot, and I think there are some production problems as well.

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But in spite of that, you've got this incredible performance

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you've got an episode that sent us on Kira, which is always a good

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idea.

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I just think the whole thing is really just thoroughly enjoyable.

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It's just a good hour of television.

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No, you knew this was coming, so I'm going to say this, but like

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you know, I know the sort of Star Trek you like.

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I know you love busy, exciting, weird looking, expensive, and this

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ain't none of that.

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It's none of it.

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It's not expensive.

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It's the cheapest probably episode of the season.

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It's one set and a couple of actors and then the standing sets.

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And it ain't a great set either, really.

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It's well lit.

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But, yeah, he's well, Lou.

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Like, we've watched a lot of very busy episodes of Star Trek

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recently. and they didn't involve me in the way this involved me

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and it is, I think, purely, because I agree with you. sort of the

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nuts and bolts of the A plot of like why they have to get them off

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this moon.

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You know, who cares?

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The idea is to trap these 2 people together in this sort of

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impossible situation where she has to make a choice of whether to

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take him away or let him stay.

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And I think the chemistry between the actors, the relationship

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that's there.

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That was enough for this to really engage me.

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So I think sometimes I know I know Star Trek should be big and

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weird and strange new worlds and new civilisation, huge action set

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pieces and all of that.

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It can do all of that.

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But it can be just as compelling with 2 people in a room.

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I think that's true as well, but as we go, I'm not always entirely

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sure what Kira is thinking or why she's doing what she's doing and

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I think that's a problem because I think this episode has to be

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about.

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So she's a terrorist turned administrator, right?

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And she's become an authority figure, and this is the thing that

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happens to all of us, I think, eventually.

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Like if you're a parent, you go from being a child to a few

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decades later being a parent and then you hear yourself saying the

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thing that your parents said, you know, and I've had the same

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experience as a teacher, it's like, 0 my god, my father used to

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say that, you know, and it's that sort of thing where you know

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very well what it's like to have someone wielding authority over

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you.

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And now you're in a position where you wield authority over

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people.

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And I think that's super interesting.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Because it's really relatable, you know how to feel about it, and

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it's very definitely what's going on here.

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Yeah.

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So you don't have to have been a terrorist to kind of identify

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with what just happens to be a Baxter.

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But I'm not entirely sure that comparing her to the Cardassians

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kind of works, and I'm never entirely certain of what she wants to

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do.

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And I do think that final scene, though, where she helps him

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finish building the kiln and then destroys it.

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I think that's really good, but I do think that her motivation is

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muddy around some of it.

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So I can't always tell where she's coming from.

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Well, I think I think she, she hates what she's become, that she

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has become that person that will have to make those kind of

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decisions and force people away from in the way that, and I think

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she's just spending the whole episode resisting that.

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And then, in a beautiful scene, I think.

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Cisco beams down and tells her, you know, you're on the other

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side.

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You've got to accept that you are on the other side now.

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And it's a really, it's a lovely, very understated but emotional

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scene.

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Yeah, he underplays it.

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Oh, he's really.

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Not like having a week off this week.

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I couldn't believe it.

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Do you remember dramatic persona?

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He won't put too much into that one.

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No, he's excited about the clock, you know, like...

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Um, we should probably go in.

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I've got just one more bit of trivia to hit you with before we go

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in.

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And that is, well, it's a question, really.

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What do the Passion of the Christ, Iron Man 2, Doctor Who, the

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movie, the greatest Showman, Hocus Pocus, and Progress, have in

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common?

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Who did the music?

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It's John Demney. did the music, but all of that.

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So John Devney is one of the most prolific Hollywood musicians out

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there.

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He has got about 350 films to his name and television.

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He scored 2 episodes of DS9, this and the Nagus, and one episode

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of TNG, the Pegasus.

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Oh wow.

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I mean, weirdly though, he's totally gone for the house style.

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I was really listening to the music as I was watching it.

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It's just wallpaper.

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Where I thought he scored really well was in the last scene. where

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it's, is it?

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and it is understated because all music is.

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Star Trek is understated.

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But it actually is quite beautiful.

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I'm not sure if you'll be able to hear the music as we're going

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into this, but weird that this, you know, massive Hollywood

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musician just turned up on starting for 3 episodes just for this

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week.

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I think this was before it hit me, though, you know.

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Okay.

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Well, probably progress was an important part of that process.

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He even did the into the advert stings, I noticed.

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Yes, they were as good as they always are.

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Let's get it happening.

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I'll count us in.

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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

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Okay, so we start on the B plot.

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And one of the things that struck me about this is how incredibly

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stagey it is.

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So, you know, um, Quark and this guy, who's this guy?

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Who is a semi-recular?

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It does turn up.

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It's usually the one, you know, that he throws drinks out and

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things like that.

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Okay.

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So, so they're having this conversation loudly and clearly enough

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to be over.

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And just to show it listening, dogs ears, like right over here

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yeah.

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Do you know what?

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You might think this is stagey.

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A bit later where they're playing cards again and Quak and Odo

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come in and go, you know, ah, someone...

249
00:12:54.120 --> 00:12:57.000
And then the camera zooms straight through them on so called

250
00:12:57.000 --> 00:12:57.840
Canodo.

251
00:12:57.899 --> 00:12:59.580
I was like, man.

252
00:12:59.639 --> 00:13:01.860
I don't like this anymore, do they?

253
00:13:02.700 --> 00:13:09.240
The 2 scenes that backend this B plot are both so stagely done.

254
00:13:09.299 --> 00:13:13.980
And like the thing about it, though, like the thing about this B

255
00:13:13.980 --> 00:13:17.220
plot is look at how tiny Jake is.

256
00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:21.059
Look at what a little kid he is and just how much fun it is to

257
00:13:21.059 --> 00:13:24.960
just have half of the episode to hang out with them. immediately

258
00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:28.139
just hit me was they just cast this show so well.

259
00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:33.059
Even these extraneous characters, they've clearly put effort and

260
00:13:33.059 --> 00:13:37.200
the chemistry between Sir Lofton and Aaron Eisenberg, it is

261
00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:38.759
palpable, you know.

262
00:13:38.820 --> 00:13:42.899
And like you and I said, all these little B plots eventually lead

263
00:13:42.899 --> 00:13:46.679
us to in the cards, which is sort of like the ultimate J.K. Nog

264
00:13:46.679 --> 00:13:46.980
episode.

265
00:13:47.340 --> 00:13:51.419
Yeah, yeah, this is like a dry run for in the cards, I think.

266
00:13:51.480 --> 00:13:55.620
Um, so here we have Toran.

267
00:13:55.679 --> 00:13:57.720
Minister, this is the only episode.

268
00:13:57.779 --> 00:13:58.620
I think so yeah.

269
00:13:58.679 --> 00:13:59.639
Minister Teran.

270
00:13:59.700 --> 00:14:01.320
So I've saw lots of various myth.

271
00:14:01.379 --> 00:14:04.320
There must be 100s of the bloody people because they pop up every

272
00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:07.200
now and again, you know, just to make sure that the Federation is

273
00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:07.980
running things well.

274
00:14:11.100 --> 00:14:14.580
This is a kind of aborted version of the show, isn't it?

275
00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:19.259
Like, it's like, we're basically going to hang around, um, Bajor

276
00:14:19.259 --> 00:14:20.399
and its moons.

277
00:14:20.460 --> 00:14:24.360
I mean, storyteller was reasonably recent or it's around about

278
00:14:24.360 --> 00:14:25.559
this part of the season.

279
00:14:25.620 --> 00:14:27.179
After...

280
00:14:27.240 --> 00:14:27.720
Yeah, yeah.

281
00:14:27.779 --> 00:14:31.500
And that, again, is, you know, we go to another moon of Bejor and

282
00:14:31.500 --> 00:14:32.340
there's people there.

283
00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:35.820
We're not actually, so that's fair. just going to the various

284
00:14:35.820 --> 00:14:36.720
Bajoran moons.

285
00:14:36.899 --> 00:14:40.799
Yeah, and then they eventually decide actually that's too tedious

286
00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:44.759
and we'll do something else and it becomes a giant geopolitical

287
00:14:44.759 --> 00:14:46.259
thing, which is much more fun.

288
00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:50.940
But this sequence here where this is the 1st sign that Jadzia will

289
00:14:50.940 --> 00:14:54.480
fuck anybody because she's talking about this conversation she's

290
00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:55.440
had with Morn.

291
00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:57.419
And Kira's like, right.

292
00:14:57.480 --> 00:15:00.600
She goes, you know, there's kind of sort of 2 or 3 wiry hairs that

293
00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:01.919
come out of his chin.

294
00:15:01.980 --> 00:15:04.200
I think they make him look kind of cute.

295
00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:05.820
Yeah.

296
00:15:05.820 --> 00:15:07.740
She's a dirty bitch.

297
00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:08.460
I'll tell you.

298
00:15:08.519 --> 00:15:09.960
Kira's really, right?

299
00:15:10.019 --> 00:15:10.620
racist about that.

300
00:15:10.620 --> 00:15:11.759
She's terrible.

301
00:15:11.820 --> 00:15:12.899
She's terrible about everyone.

302
00:15:12.960 --> 00:15:14.220
She goes, what is it?

303
00:15:14.279 --> 00:15:16.980
Bodet with the transparent skull.

304
00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:18.539
She goes, look.

305
00:15:18.600 --> 00:15:21.240
I don't like to have dinner, you know, and see people's brains.

306
00:15:22.019 --> 00:15:24.720
Oh, here we are.

307
00:15:24.779 --> 00:15:25.799
Okay.

308
00:15:25.860 --> 00:15:30.779
So, I think the script wants this set to be much, look at the

309
00:15:30.779 --> 00:15:34.080
painting in the back on the mountains. painted in the background.

310
00:15:34.379 --> 00:15:37.860
Look, the thing that they can do and that they have been able to

311
00:15:37.860 --> 00:15:42.240
do ever since around about the middle of TNG's run is outdoor

312
00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:43.799
lighting that looks like sunlight.

313
00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:44.940
Yeah?

314
00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:46.679
Don't you think they do that quite well?

315
00:15:46.740 --> 00:15:49.559
I do, and I think they do really well with this episode as well

316
00:15:49.559 --> 00:15:51.059
especially when you're inside the house.

317
00:15:51.779 --> 00:15:53.519
Yeah, yeah.

318
00:15:53.580 --> 00:15:58.679
But I think the set needs to be, look, here's the thing, right?

319
00:15:58.740 --> 00:16:03.899
This is a moon of Bajor. 50 people live on it and 47 of them

320
00:16:03.899 --> 00:16:04.679
evacuated.

321
00:16:04.740 --> 00:16:07.019
These 3 haven't evacuated.

322
00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:08.279
That's all that lives on it.

323
00:16:08.340 --> 00:16:09.659
It's habitable.

324
00:16:09.720 --> 00:16:10.740
It's sunny.

325
00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:13.559
There's plants, it's a lovely place, and they're just going to

326
00:16:13.559 --> 00:16:18.360
completely destroy it. in order to like build some fucking wind

327
00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:19.919
mills people.

328
00:16:19.980 --> 00:16:20.940
Like, what are we doing?

329
00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:21.840
Do you know what I mean?

330
00:16:21.899 --> 00:16:24.539
So they want to use its geothermal energy or something.

331
00:16:24.539 --> 00:16:28.559
Are you attempting to suggest to me that if the conservative

332
00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:32.340
government or the government's around the world, found a way of

333
00:16:32.340 --> 00:16:35.639
the moon, not, you know, affecting the tide, that they could

334
00:16:35.639 --> 00:16:38.639
destroy that moon and turn it into a sense of fuel, that they

335
00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:39.240
wouldn't do it?

336
00:16:39.299 --> 00:16:40.740
Because I'm telling you, they would.

337
00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:41.580
No, that's right.

338
00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:44.940
But, I mean, it's kind of stupid, whereas if it was really

339
00:16:44.940 --> 00:16:49.620
precarious, it would work as well because he's choosing to live on

340
00:16:49.620 --> 00:16:53.940
this sort of desolate rock because he feels like he's been, he, you

341
00:16:53.940 --> 00:16:58.139
know, Bajor isn't his home anymore and he's struggled and tried to

342
00:16:58.139 --> 00:16:59.039
make a place there.

343
00:16:59.100 --> 00:17:03.419
But it all looks so edenic that you can't kind of buy that.

344
00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:07.079
I think he just comes off as an asshole, I think.

345
00:17:07.140 --> 00:17:10.920
But not an arsehole enough because Peter Allen Fields, who wrote

346
00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:11.400
this episode.

347
00:17:11.460 --> 00:17:13.019
He wrote this and duet.

348
00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:15.839
I think he took the 1st hand at the visitor and in the Pale

349
00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:16.559
Moonlight as well.

350
00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:18.900
He is one of the best writers of DS9.

351
00:17:19.740 --> 00:17:24.720
He said that in execution, this didn't match what he was writing

352
00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:25.619
in the script.

353
00:17:25.619 --> 00:17:30.420
And not so much, not so much the setting, but Mullabok, who he

354
00:17:30.420 --> 00:17:33.059
says, he said he thought Brian Keith gave a brilliant performance

355
00:17:33.059 --> 00:17:36.180
but he's supposed to be an arshole.

356
00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:38.460
And he plays it with a lot of wolf.

357
00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:40.680
And I'm kind of glad he does because that's what sold me on the

358
00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:40.859
episode.

359
00:17:40.920 --> 00:17:43.380
Yeah, that's what's fun to watch, I think.

360
00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:45.359
And that's why you can't spray.

361
00:17:45.420 --> 00:17:48.180
But he wanted to put Kira in that situation of having to protect a

362
00:17:48.180 --> 00:17:50.039
complete CUNT.

363
00:17:50.099 --> 00:17:50.640
Yeah.

364
00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:55.259
Well, see, the great thing is that they make fun of this in an

365
00:17:55.259 --> 00:17:59.099
episode of Lower Decks that we've done, Cupid's errand arrow, where

366
00:17:59.099 --> 00:18:04.500
the 2 people who live on mixed us too. won't let them destroy the

367
00:18:04.500 --> 00:18:07.440
moon when it's going to crash into mixed to three.

368
00:18:07.500 --> 00:18:12.180
And when Freeman discovers it's only 2 people.

369
00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:14.039
She goes, what, 2 people?

370
00:18:14.099 --> 00:18:14.640
Both of you?

371
00:18:14.700 --> 00:18:15.240
What do you mean?

372
00:18:15.299 --> 00:18:17.339
And they say, oh, yeah, we're rich.

373
00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:19.200
She just says blow the moon.

374
00:18:20.099 --> 00:18:24.539
We don't get 45 minutes of them beaming them down, trying to

375
00:18:24.539 --> 00:18:25.259
convince them.

376
00:18:25.319 --> 00:18:26.400
Do you know what?

377
00:18:26.460 --> 00:18:29.039
I love the fact that every single lighter comes, he's just baiting

378
00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:30.240
her all the time, isn't he?

379
00:18:30.299 --> 00:18:33.480
Yeah, you know, Nathan, halfway pretty, you know.

380
00:18:34.200 --> 00:18:38.400
Girl, like calling her a girl is really funny, but then there's

381
00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:44.700
another really funny thing where he makes her compare herself to

382
00:18:44.700 --> 00:18:45.900
the Kardassians.

383
00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:49.019
Like the comparison between her and the Cardassians, you know

384
00:18:49.019 --> 00:18:51.539
these are just uniforms coming to tear us away from our home.

385
00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:54.539
It doesn't matter if they can't Essians or Bajorans, you know, and

386
00:18:54.539 --> 00:18:56.880
there's something to be said for that, but he makes her make

387
00:18:56.880 --> 00:18:57.180
that.

388
00:18:57.539 --> 00:19:00.180
The way she plays that...

389
00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:03.660
He says, you know, like, oh, you know, how did you, how did you

390
00:19:03.660 --> 00:19:04.380
fight them?

391
00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:06.299
And she goes, well, we hung on like fanatics.

392
00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:07.140
He goes, that's it.

393
00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:07.859
That's it.

394
00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:09.779
He goes, oh, yes, I must remember that.

395
00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:13.140
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

396
00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:14.339
That's the bit I made.

397
00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:17.099
It's lovely Oh, I love you know what?

398
00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:19.559
You know when they hang out on that bit of the promenade there

399
00:19:19.619 --> 00:19:20.579
that's sort of intersex.

400
00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:21.180
Yeah.

401
00:19:21.180 --> 00:19:22.140
They even have a bit.

402
00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:24.420
When he goes off to the academy, you know, they have their last

403
00:19:24.420 --> 00:19:26.400
scene there with their legs hanging over the edge.

404
00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:28.019
Yeah.

405
00:19:28.019 --> 00:19:29.700
I don't know if you remember.

406
00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:32.519
There's a scene a couple of episodes later where Jake's doing it

407
00:19:32.519 --> 00:19:35.759
on his own, and Odo comes up to him, like he always used to when

408
00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:38.460
it was Jake and Nog, and he goes, oh, I suppose you want me to

409
00:19:38.460 --> 00:19:38.940
move on?

410
00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:41.039
He goes, no, I never wanted you to move on.

411
00:19:41.099 --> 00:19:42.000
It was Nog.

412
00:19:42.059 --> 00:19:43.440
I was always going off.

413
00:19:46.500 --> 00:19:48.599
So this alien.

414
00:19:48.660 --> 00:19:51.839
So he's a Lasepian.

415
00:19:51.900 --> 00:19:54.299
I think that looks pretty good.

416
00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:57.900
And that is a step up from Star Trek, the Next Generation Aliens.

417
00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:00.000
They're annoying, though, because they often do this.

418
00:20:00.059 --> 00:20:03.480
Put a lot of effort into these one seed aliens. and then you get

419
00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:05.819
like the Beaumar that are in a whole episode.

420
00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:07.680
That's right. right.

421
00:20:07.740 --> 00:20:08.940
There's nowhere foot at all.

422
00:20:09.059 --> 00:20:10.680
So what is it?

423
00:20:10.740 --> 00:20:13.500
They started off with Cardassian Yamak sauce.

424
00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:16.319
Which they still haven't asked if they can have yet.

425
00:20:16.380 --> 00:20:20.640
And they've already traded it for self stealing stem bolts.

426
00:20:20.700 --> 00:20:21.960
Yeah.

427
00:20:22.019 --> 00:20:26.220
One thing that I miss a little bit here, and I think they get it

428
00:20:26.220 --> 00:20:31.859
right in the cards, but they've had years of experience by then

429
00:20:31.859 --> 00:20:35.279
and this is very early, is I don't think Jake should be better

430
00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:37.200
than Nog at this.

431
00:20:37.259 --> 00:20:38.640
And in this episode.

432
00:20:38.700 --> 00:20:43.200
Nog is usually wrong and Jake is the one who gets him to do the

433
00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:43.619
right thing.

434
00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:50.519
And I think it's more fun to have Nog be super Frankie and Frankie

435
00:20:50.519 --> 00:20:52.859
you know, from Burr for just terribly good at this.

436
00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:55.019
You know what the best example of that is.

437
00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:58.920
It's the series 7 episode, Treachery Faith in the Great River, when

438
00:20:58.920 --> 00:21:02.519
Chief O'Brien, he's like, oh, God, we need this part for the

439
00:21:02.519 --> 00:21:03.119
Defiance.

440
00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:05.700
Cisco said, if I don't get it fixed by the time he's back, I'm

441
00:21:05.700 --> 00:21:05.880
dead.

442
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:07.799
So Nog's like, don't worry, I'll get it for you.

443
00:21:07.859 --> 00:21:09.240
Just give me your authorisation code.

444
00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:10.619
And he gives it to it.

445
00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:14.519
And then he starts trading and he trades Captain Cisco's desk.

446
00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:16.500
That's right.

447
00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:18.180
It's so fun.

448
00:21:18.299 --> 00:21:19.500
It's so funny.

449
00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:21.480
Oh dear.

450
00:21:21.900 --> 00:21:26.640
And what do you think about, um, what do you think about what's

451
00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:28.019
his face and what's her face?

452
00:21:28.079 --> 00:21:29.579
Beltram and Kino?

453
00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:34.440
Well, I really liked was it managed to show the horror of what the

454
00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:36.599
Kardashians did without us in a world.

455
00:21:36.660 --> 00:21:38.460
I really like that where he says they don't say a word.

456
00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:39.960
The Cardassians took care of that.

457
00:21:40.019 --> 00:21:44.759
And that to me says way more than hearing some agonising backstory

458
00:21:44.759 --> 00:21:46.319
of what they've been through, you know?

459
00:21:46.380 --> 00:21:47.759
Yeah, no, I agree.

460
00:21:47.819 --> 00:21:51.180
But they just can't talk for budgetary reasons, can they?

461
00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:55.140
Don't you think?

462
00:21:55.200 --> 00:21:58.259
Isn't that why they can't talk and all just sort of seems like

463
00:21:58.259 --> 00:22:00.720
well, we'll have 2 people here, but we don't want to write a part

464
00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:03.059
for them because then that complicates the story.

465
00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:06.359
And so we just have them not talking and we don't have to pay

466
00:22:06.359 --> 00:22:06.539
them.

467
00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:09.720
You remember when we said in Strange New Worlds, with Pike making

468
00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:12.240
dinner and when Star Trek sort of goes a bit...

469
00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:14.880
I do like it when he goes a bit domestic like this, you know. less

470
00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:17.579
at console, more scrubbing roots, you know?

471
00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:19.619
Yeah, yeah.

472
00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:23.099
And also because this is a world that's super familiar to the

473
00:22:23.099 --> 00:22:24.240
people who are in it.

474
00:22:24.299 --> 00:22:28.019
Like, what, how much do we get a sense of what Bajor is like

475
00:22:28.019 --> 00:22:29.759
during the run of the show?

476
00:22:29.819 --> 00:22:35.160
Maybe not as much as we should because the show loses interest in

477
00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:36.960
Bajor and goes off and does other things.

478
00:22:37.019 --> 00:22:42.779
But here it's, you know, like the roots and the, you know, soup

479
00:22:42.779 --> 00:22:44.400
and all of that sort of thing.

480
00:22:44.460 --> 00:22:44.940
I don't know.

481
00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:45.420
I don't know.

482
00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:47.519
I think all's really interesting is you're right.

483
00:22:47.579 --> 00:22:49.980
It does, they, they, basically, these are the least popular

484
00:22:49.980 --> 00:22:51.599
episodes, the Bajoran ones.

485
00:22:51.660 --> 00:22:55.200
Because people are, they've gone from TNG, which is exploring new

486
00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:58.799
planets every week to just hanging around on a farm, you know, like

487
00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:00.720
and people are like, what's what's happened to Star Trek?

488
00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:02.759
And they do push away from that.

489
00:23:02.819 --> 00:23:06.480
But you still have episodes like Rapture, a session, the B

490
00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:07.440
plotting in the cards.

491
00:23:07.500 --> 00:23:11.160
You remember that's Kai Wynn coming along and negotiating with the

492
00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:11.640
Dominion.

493
00:23:11.700 --> 00:23:14.700
And then in the last season, they're like, well, do you know

494
00:23:14.700 --> 00:23:14.880
what?

495
00:23:14.940 --> 00:23:15.599
This is our last year.

496
00:23:15.660 --> 00:23:16.680
We can do what we want.

497
00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:20.460
And they have that whole plot of Kai Wynn and Dukat on Bejor and

498
00:23:20.460 --> 00:23:23.579
they really lean into it again in that last year of like where

499
00:23:23.579 --> 00:23:24.900
Bajor is.

500
00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:26.880
I know you don't like that so much, but it's fun.

501
00:23:26.940 --> 00:23:30.839
Well, no, because I mean, I think I think it's just locating one

502
00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:35.099
of the power, like, you know, you've got a Cardassian and you've

503
00:23:35.099 --> 00:23:39.000
got a Bajoran and she's Kai Wyn, and you've got Martoc, and you've

504
00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:40.079
got, do you know what I mean?

505
00:23:40.140 --> 00:23:43.200
Like each race is represented by kind of one person.

506
00:23:43.259 --> 00:23:46.619
And so the person who represents Bajor is Kai Winn, and obviously

507
00:23:46.619 --> 00:23:48.539
Louise Fletcher is fantastic and stuff.

508
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:53.279
But Bajor itself, I think we get sick of after the incredible 3

509
00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:53.759
partner.

510
00:23:54.299 --> 00:23:55.380
Every time we go back, too.

511
00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:57.180
They're always behaving.

512
00:23:57.240 --> 00:23:59.400
I think the Bajorans are a fickle bunch, you know.

513
00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:03.599
So in a session, they're all happy to go back to their de genres

514
00:24:03.660 --> 00:24:06.660
even though it means everybody has to quit their jobs and, you

515
00:24:06.660 --> 00:24:08.279
know, curiosity at BFB.

516
00:24:08.339 --> 00:24:09.960
It's a good episode.

517
00:24:10.019 --> 00:24:12.180
It's a really strong episode because the whole point of that is

518
00:24:12.180 --> 00:24:14.099
Cisco is the emissary.

519
00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:15.299
He doesn't want to do it.

520
00:24:15.420 --> 00:24:18.539
Actually, someone comes in who says he's the emissary and then

521
00:24:18.539 --> 00:24:21.839
he's like, shit, I need to do this because he's going to

522
00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:23.759
completely turn this planet upside down.

523
00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:28.680
They don't completely forget about it, but it's less it's less

524
00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:30.900
important than it is in the 1st 2 years.

525
00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:33.660
Yeah, because they don't quite know what they're doing.

526
00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:36.180
It's just like, we'll put 2 characters in a runabout.

527
00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:37.619
We'll go to a place.

528
00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:40.500
It doesn't matter. whether that place is on another planet or on

529
00:24:40.500 --> 00:24:44.940
region of Beijor, but it kind of turns out it does, I think.

530
00:24:45.059 --> 00:24:46.200
Do you know what?

531
00:24:46.259 --> 00:24:47.700
We have that gorgeous scene in a minute.

532
00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:50.759
You were talking about it on the on the thread where they're

533
00:24:50.759 --> 00:24:56.160
having dinner together and he's making up some god awful, hilarious

534
00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:57.059
backstory.

535
00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:02.640
How he got his hands and knees and dug up the fields, you know, and

536
00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:06.660
tighten with his fingernails and stuff. so he didn't know he was

537
00:25:06.660 --> 00:25:06.900
hungry.

538
00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:10.980
It's really fun, isn't it?

539
00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:13.500
I don't know what it is, but it is great.

540
00:25:13.559 --> 00:25:16.859
It's, I don't know.

541
00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:21.000
Like, it's, you know, like he can't expect to be believed.

542
00:25:21.059 --> 00:25:25.680
It's like a heroic retelling of his story, which is really funny.

543
00:25:25.740 --> 00:25:27.299
There's a lot of sort of humour in it.

544
00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:32.400
I don't know how you can say that without being likeable.

545
00:25:32.460 --> 00:25:37.859
Like the script, if Peter Allen Fells says, um, you know, the

546
00:25:37.859 --> 00:25:40.019
trouble is, Mullabok ended up being too likeable.

547
00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:44.279
You can't have an unlikeable character deliver that because that's

548
00:25:44.279 --> 00:25:46.079
funny and he's being funny.

549
00:25:46.140 --> 00:25:49.799
Like there's another way. as being literal, which is even

550
00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:50.339
funnier.

551
00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:51.720
No, he can't have been.

552
00:25:51.779 --> 00:25:54.420
I wonder if Peter Rader feels like...

553
00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:55.019
TNG.

554
00:25:55.140 --> 00:25:57.720
All these, you know, really terrible backstories.

555
00:25:57.779 --> 00:26:00.839
We keep getting, you know, sort of speeches that these one off

556
00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:01.319
characters.

557
00:26:01.380 --> 00:26:02.940
He's going, oh, I've got to rip this.

558
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:04.019
I've got to take the piss.

559
00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:09.839
I want to know who this human woman at the bar is looking at

560
00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:10.980
looking at Drake.

561
00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:12.539
She doesn't approve of children.

562
00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:14.880
Oh, look at that shot.

563
00:26:14.940 --> 00:26:18.299
You get an exterior shot of the house with a sort of moon.

564
00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:21.240
I think that might be a light, you know, rather than CGI effect.

565
00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:27.359
There is a later shot of the sunrising over Bajor, and it struck

566
00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:29.940
me as something that the show never really does again.

567
00:26:30.059 --> 00:26:33.240
There's a real warmth to how this is shot, though, this dinner

568
00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:33.839
scene.

569
00:26:33.900 --> 00:26:34.980
I really.

570
00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:38.819
Yeah, but there's a lot of yellow lighting for this planet, isn't

571
00:26:38.819 --> 00:26:39.000
there?

572
00:26:39.059 --> 00:26:41.700
Yeah, this, this is so funny.

573
00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:42.660
It's so ridiculous.

574
00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:47.039
There I was staring starvation in the face again.

575
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:51.599
Oh, look, the other 2 did a little bit of acting.

576
00:26:51.660 --> 00:26:52.980
They did a little reaction shot.

577
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:54.299
It's old Mullerpok.

578
00:26:54.359 --> 00:26:55.140
What a twat.

579
00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:58.680
But just so Super was like when it goes to, you know, how about

580
00:26:58.680 --> 00:27:00.000
some of that lovely wine?

581
00:27:00.059 --> 00:27:01.019
Please.

582
00:27:01.079 --> 00:27:03.420
You know, I just feel like there's established relationships

583
00:27:03.420 --> 00:27:03.720
here.

584
00:27:03.779 --> 00:27:06.839
Like this doesn't always work when we come down and meet

585
00:27:06.839 --> 00:27:07.440
characters.

586
00:27:07.500 --> 00:27:09.119
I don't know if you remember that episode.

587
00:27:09.180 --> 00:27:14.460
Oh god, it's in season one of Voyager, where Tom Paris is accused

588
00:27:14.460 --> 00:27:15.059
of murder.

589
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:16.559
It's all told a sort of flashback.

590
00:27:16.619 --> 00:27:19.920
And you meet a bunch of people a bit like this and they have it in

591
00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:22.619
the scene and it's fucking agonising to watch.

592
00:27:25.559 --> 00:27:30.000
Like Kieran now twice has said, I want to hear who won.

593
00:27:30.059 --> 00:27:31.799
I want to hear how this story ends.

594
00:27:31.859 --> 00:27:35.940
And she's being a cow because obviously she knows how the story

595
00:27:35.940 --> 00:27:38.519
ends because it ends with them right here.

596
00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:40.619
She's making fun of him.

597
00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:43.079
Like, he's telling this preposterous story.

598
00:27:43.140 --> 00:27:46.920
She's pretending to engage with it, even though she knows kind of

599
00:27:46.920 --> 00:27:47.579
what's happening.

600
00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:53.220
Like this, the ploughing the plum straight lines, you know, with

601
00:27:53.220 --> 00:27:54.720
his fingernails. and stuff.

602
00:27:54.779 --> 00:27:56.640
And like, she's really enjoying it.

603
00:27:56.700 --> 00:27:58.140
Look at look at her reaction.

604
00:27:58.200 --> 00:28:00.180
It's really terribly fun.

605
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:02.640
No, you know, this is the 1st season.

606
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:06.180
And she is pretty fully formed, isn't she?

607
00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:06.960
in her performance.

608
00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:09.059
Yeah.

609
00:28:09.059 --> 00:28:13.200
I don't, I would never want to underestimate, I think she is like

610
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:16.680
the MVP of Deep Space 9 and a visitor.

611
00:28:16.740 --> 00:28:19.259
I think she's probably the best actor in it.

612
00:28:20.220 --> 00:28:22.740
But the competition...

613
00:28:22.740 --> 00:28:24.299
Yeah, the bar is high.

614
00:28:24.420 --> 00:28:26.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

615
00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:27.599
Yeah.

616
00:28:27.660 --> 00:28:32.579
I think it's the best cast of the 90s track series with no doubt.

617
00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:36.660
It's kind of like, I think it's a sort of show where, like, if the

618
00:28:36.660 --> 00:28:40.380
episode isn't great, you're still going to get some great acting.

619
00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:41.700
Yeah, yeah.

620
00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:43.980
Except dramatic persona.

621
00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:47.279
It's it's funny.

622
00:28:47.339 --> 00:28:52.140
There's been so little of this cast coming back I mean, you know

623
00:28:52.140 --> 00:28:53.400
oversight, I think.

624
00:28:53.940 --> 00:28:59.160
Yeah, but I, you know, like I think they must all like Deep Space

625
00:28:59.160 --> 00:28:59.759
9.

626
00:28:59.819 --> 00:29:03.839
Like, you know, anyone who loves Star Trek has a higher regard for

627
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:06.299
Deep Space 9, I think, because it does things that other Star

628
00:29:06.299 --> 00:29:07.500
Trek's never managed to do.

629
00:29:07.559 --> 00:29:11.160
I mean, the fella who show rum series, was it Terry?

630
00:29:11.220 --> 00:29:12.000
Is it Matelas?

631
00:29:12.059 --> 00:29:12.539
Is that how you say?

632
00:29:12.539 --> 00:29:13.619
Metalis?

633
00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:17.759
He said that if that new Star Trek legacy show comes up, there

634
00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:19.619
will be characters from DS9 in it.

635
00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:20.880
That's the pitch.

636
00:29:20.940 --> 00:29:23.579
So I don't think they've forgotten them.

637
00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:25.740
It could have been availability as well.

638
00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:26.819
I mean, they're good actors.

639
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:27.480
They probably working.

640
00:29:27.539 --> 00:29:29.220
Yeah, yeah.

641
00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:33.299
Well, and and we did have Arman and an art in an episode of Flower

642
00:29:33.299 --> 00:29:35.220
Decks. they haven't been completely forgotten.

643
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:39.539
Exterior looks so much better at night. the lights are down.

644
00:29:39.599 --> 00:29:40.259
Yeah.

645
00:29:40.619 --> 00:29:44.160
I think also this is this sounds stupid.

646
00:29:44.220 --> 00:29:48.180
This sounds really trivial. but so much of 90 Star Trek is people

647
00:29:48.180 --> 00:29:51.599
standing around talking and saying what they're thinking.

648
00:29:51.660 --> 00:29:55.319
You know, there's no subtext or anything like that.

649
00:29:55.440 --> 00:30:03.960
And maybe they don't quite nail it here, but having the kiln and

650
00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:08.700
having physical business that the actors do about the kiln and the

651
00:30:08.700 --> 00:30:14.099
kiln represents some kind of investment in his future here.

652
00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:18.599
And so he's continuing to build the kiln, even though he knows

653
00:30:18.599 --> 00:30:24.059
that he's only got a few days left on the planet or a week.

654
00:30:24.119 --> 00:30:26.519
And then she starts building the kiln as well.

655
00:30:26.579 --> 00:30:29.519
And I think, you know, it's simple.

656
00:30:29.579 --> 00:30:33.599
It's not earth shattering, but it's not, it's a bit unusual, I

657
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:34.380
think, for Star Trek.

658
00:30:34.440 --> 00:30:38.039
Okay, what really works is what you said, the last scene where she

659
00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:41.339
says she has him the last one and says the last one.

660
00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:42.299
We're going.

661
00:30:42.359 --> 00:30:42.960
Yeah.

662
00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:46.859
Completing the kiln is, is when we're leaving.

663
00:30:46.920 --> 00:30:49.740
And if you're uncertain about that.

664
00:30:49.799 --> 00:30:51.359
Well, then she blows it to shit as well.

665
00:30:51.779 --> 00:30:54.779
Well, and that's another thing too.

666
00:30:54.839 --> 00:31:00.299
Like, because this version of Star Trek, this 90s version of Star

667
00:31:00.299 --> 00:31:04.799
Trek is cheap and because most of the things...

668
00:31:04.859 --> 00:31:06.059
Well, it's probably not cheap.

669
00:31:06.119 --> 00:31:09.059
I mean, the money they poured into the set.

670
00:31:09.119 --> 00:31:10.740
It weren't cheap to start off.

671
00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:11.099
Yeah, yeah.

672
00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:11.940
No, no.

673
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:16.680
But, but, you know, there's a lot of standing around inexpensively

674
00:31:16.680 --> 00:31:19.440
in standing sense going on.

675
00:31:19.500 --> 00:31:26.279
But actually having her set fire to the thing and having him stand

676
00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:31.740
by and watch her do it is really interesting and that like he

677
00:31:31.740 --> 00:31:32.819
doesn't object.

678
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:34.680
He knows that she's going to do it.

679
00:31:34.980 --> 00:31:37.799
What I love about that is I think that's really good.

680
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:40.980
It's open-ended, and we never find out what happens to him after

681
00:31:40.980 --> 00:31:41.160
that.

682
00:31:41.220 --> 00:31:42.180
I wouldn't want to.

683
00:31:43.019 --> 00:31:48.539
No, but it is kind of a problem as if, because part of the

684
00:31:48.539 --> 00:31:53.700
solution, part of the way that Kira convinces herself that this is

685
00:31:53.700 --> 00:31:59.579
the right thing to do and what she tells him is, I will make sure

686
00:31:59.579 --> 00:32:02.160
you know, he says, if I leave here, I'll die.

687
00:32:02.220 --> 00:32:08.039
And she could have said, no, you stupid asshole, you won't, don't

688
00:32:08.039 --> 00:32:09.059
be such a drama queen.

689
00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:09.660
We're going.

690
00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:10.920
Do you know what I mean?

691
00:32:10.980 --> 00:32:13.799
Because that's like that's really the issue here, isn't it?

692
00:32:13.859 --> 00:32:17.940
He'll die if he doesn't have his fucking cave and his roots and

693
00:32:17.940 --> 00:32:19.259
his all of that sort of thing.

694
00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:21.779
Like he's just being a dickhead, right?

695
00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:26.220
Um, And she says, no, you won't die.

696
00:32:26.279 --> 00:32:29.460
I'll make sure of it, but of course we never hear of him again.

697
00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:30.420
And so...

698
00:32:30.539 --> 00:32:31.740
Which is kind of, it's a bit remote.

699
00:32:31.740 --> 00:32:34.740
DS Liner's got a good track record of catching up with characters

700
00:32:34.740 --> 00:32:35.819
later.

701
00:32:35.880 --> 00:32:39.660
Well, I was just thinking actually about 2nd skin, you know, and

702
00:32:39.660 --> 00:32:44.400
where her pretend father comes back in another episode.

703
00:32:44.460 --> 00:32:45.539
Yeah.

704
00:32:45.539 --> 00:32:50.700
Brian Keith actually dies in 1997.

705
00:32:50.940 --> 00:32:54.119
So just 4 years after this.

706
00:32:54.180 --> 00:32:54.779
Wow.

707
00:32:54.779 --> 00:32:55.319
Okay.

708
00:32:55.380 --> 00:33:01.619
And he has, he has lung cancer, but he does die of a gunshot

709
00:33:01.619 --> 00:33:02.039
wound.

710
00:33:02.099 --> 00:33:06.299
So he, he, I think he dies by suicide.

711
00:33:06.359 --> 00:33:09.180
I think I knew that because he's sick.

712
00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:10.740
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

713
00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:15.059
But I mean, he's, you know, he's a big deal.

714
00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:16.740
He might have been hard to get back.

715
00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:18.599
And what do you do?

716
00:33:18.660 --> 00:33:19.500
Do you know what I mean?

717
00:33:19.559 --> 00:33:20.700
Like, what do you do?

718
00:33:20.759 --> 00:33:24.059
He comes back and he's, I don't know, started a chain of.

719
00:33:24.180 --> 00:33:27.480
Well, we're in the restaurants that sell that suit. era of

720
00:33:27.480 --> 00:33:29.640
bringing back everything these days, aren't we?

721
00:33:29.700 --> 00:33:31.259
Sometimes I think, you know what?

722
00:33:31.319 --> 00:33:34.380
That that appearance that you had was good enough.

723
00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:35.099
Leave it alone.

724
00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:36.539
Yeah, yeah.

725
00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:37.140
Yeah.

726
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:39.299
But I think I think that that's part of the problem.

727
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:43.799
I do think that it's a little bit unclear what's happening and

728
00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:45.599
what's going on in Kira's head.

729
00:33:45.660 --> 00:33:49.140
And I think it needs to be clear for this to work 100% of the

730
00:33:49.140 --> 00:33:49.319
time.

731
00:33:49.380 --> 00:33:50.579
Yeah, like what's this?

732
00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:52.200
This fucking dickhead here, right?

733
00:33:52.259 --> 00:33:53.460
They're always...

734
00:33:53.460 --> 00:33:54.960
They're always...

735
00:33:55.680 --> 00:34:03.539
We're going to render this entire moon uninhabitable because we

736
00:34:03.539 --> 00:34:07.559
can't wait a year for a better power plant to come online.

737
00:34:07.619 --> 00:34:10.739
Like, why not just issue them all, some fucking batteries and tell

738
00:34:10.739 --> 00:34:12.659
them to wrap up warmth the winter.

739
00:34:12.719 --> 00:34:17.460
But, you know, and it's going to be, oh, we're going to heat 10s

740
00:34:17.460 --> 00:34:19.559
of 1000s of Bajoran homes.

741
00:34:19.619 --> 00:34:22.139
Like, but we're going to destroy.

742
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:25.260
Like that's what's dumb about it, and it's partly that this set.

743
00:34:25.320 --> 00:34:28.500
Partly the problem is that this set looks so lush.

744
00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:32.219
And if it had been, if it had been, if he'd genuinely been

745
00:34:32.219 --> 00:34:35.219
scraping out, some kind of subsistence.

746
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:37.860
It doesn't matter if it's lush, but we need a log shot of the

747
00:34:37.860 --> 00:34:40.260
planet, make it a bit like the survivors.

748
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:43.440
Do you remember where you've got that beautiful garden surrounded

749
00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:44.460
by this horrid desert?

750
00:34:44.760 --> 00:34:46.139
Yeah.

751
00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:48.239
It's like, oh, okay.

752
00:34:48.300 --> 00:34:49.440
So the planet is miserable.

753
00:34:49.500 --> 00:34:52.260
It's just that little area that is looked after quite well.

754
00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:53.219
That's right.

755
00:34:55.440 --> 00:35:01.139
I do like, I do like the, it's not subtle, but I do like, um, the

756
00:35:01.139 --> 00:35:02.400
uniform being used.

757
00:35:02.460 --> 00:35:03.599
So she takes off the universe.

758
00:35:03.659 --> 00:35:05.940
Yeah, I'm staying. and then she puts on the uniform.

759
00:35:06.059 --> 00:35:07.139
Okay, you're leaving.

760
00:35:07.260 --> 00:35:10.860
And he says, doesn't he, what's the gun all about?

761
00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:11.760
You didn't have the gun before.

762
00:35:11.820 --> 00:35:15.000
And she goes, oh, it's protocol. if I'm going to force you out of

763
00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:15.300
your home.

764
00:35:15.420 --> 00:35:16.079
Come on there.

765
00:35:16.440 --> 00:35:18.360
Yeah, yeah.

766
00:35:19.019 --> 00:35:21.539
Yeah, see, I like that.

767
00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:23.099
I'm doing what has to be done.

768
00:35:23.159 --> 00:35:23.820
I am too.

769
00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:27.239
Um, There's a great series going.

770
00:35:27.300 --> 00:35:28.260
I also, so God.

771
00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:29.880
No, no, no.

772
00:35:29.940 --> 00:35:34.440
I'm not sure I buy the, like what happens at the end as like what

773
00:35:34.440 --> 00:35:40.980
happens to lead into the, uh, the ad break here. where, what, he

774
00:35:40.980 --> 00:35:42.420
gets shot by one of them.

775
00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:44.699
Oh, it's very strange. isn't it?

776
00:35:44.760 --> 00:35:46.260
It's yeah, yeah.

777
00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:49.920
But like, why are they do they have phases set to kill anyway?

778
00:35:49.980 --> 00:35:50.940
Do you know what I mean?

779
00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:54.599
Like they're going up there to move an old man.

780
00:35:54.659 --> 00:35:58.739
They have to take their guns because we're American scriptwriters

781
00:35:58.739 --> 00:36:02.940
and we can't imagine, you know, this being done by people who

782
00:36:02.940 --> 00:36:04.980
aren't wielding fucking guns.

783
00:36:04.980 --> 00:36:07.380
Like, why are they have guns at all?

784
00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:08.699
There's no reason for it.

785
00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:10.500
And then why do they have them set to kill?

786
00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:11.639
you know it's ridiculous.

787
00:36:11.699 --> 00:36:15.179
I think the weird thing about this episode is you're right, and

788
00:36:15.179 --> 00:36:20.159
you're sort of niggling at the nuts and bolts of the story, but

789
00:36:20.159 --> 00:36:24.539
the story is manipulating the characters into the position of just

790
00:36:24.539 --> 00:36:26.099
being stuck there together.

791
00:36:26.159 --> 00:36:27.360
And that's what I love.

792
00:36:27.480 --> 00:36:29.699
So I'm kind of like, okay, yeah, I get it.

793
00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:30.780
It doesn't really work.

794
00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:34.139
But the episode works because they're so great.

795
00:36:34.440 --> 00:36:37.440
Well, I think it's the same with duet, isn't it?

796
00:36:37.500 --> 00:36:40.500
Where, like, what's not actually happening?

797
00:36:40.500 --> 00:36:41.760
There's a bit more sense in there.

798
00:36:41.820 --> 00:36:43.800
And the mystery is stupid.

799
00:36:43.860 --> 00:36:47.099
Like the resolution is, you know, like...

800
00:36:47.099 --> 00:36:49.739
Oh, we can't find a picture of this war criminal.

801
00:36:49.739 --> 00:36:51.239
No, it was in charge of a lady.

802
00:36:51.239 --> 00:36:51.900
Like all of that.

803
00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:53.820
Yeah, none of that quite works.

804
00:36:53.880 --> 00:36:55.500
Are you telling me, God, you can't.

805
00:36:55.500 --> 00:36:57.480
They not have a snapshot every day of themselves.

806
00:36:57.539 --> 00:36:58.500
Yeah, with our wips.

807
00:36:58.559 --> 00:36:59.039
Right.

808
00:36:59.039 --> 00:37:03.960
Yeah, so it doesn't quite work.

809
00:37:03.960 --> 00:37:05.940
Yeah, this, like why is he shooting an old man?

810
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:07.320
Like, that's just crazy.

811
00:37:07.380 --> 00:37:08.039
What's he doing?

812
00:37:08.099 --> 00:37:09.239
Like, what?

813
00:37:09.539 --> 00:37:12.840
But then this lease to all the scenes where she's looking after

814
00:37:12.840 --> 00:37:13.139
him.

815
00:37:13.500 --> 00:37:15.780
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

816
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:16.800
But like...

817
00:37:16.800 --> 00:37:17.579
Oh, I love...

818
00:37:17.579 --> 00:37:19.260
You don't love Dr. Share coming down.

819
00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:21.659
She's just so dismissive of him, isn't she?

820
00:37:21.719 --> 00:37:22.619
She don't give him a 2nd.

821
00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:28.260
Well, he's, he's off you arrogant, you know, like, he's, also only

822
00:37:28.260 --> 00:37:30.719
for contractual reasons. isn't he?

823
00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:36.780
Oh, they do this a couple of times, you know, where they're sort

824
00:37:36.780 --> 00:37:39.719
of pretends substate.

825
00:37:39.780 --> 00:37:42.900
Do you remember the bit whereas redax is talking to Cisco and

826
00:37:42.900 --> 00:37:46.260
she's going, I'm so sorry.

827
00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:47.639
I can't hear you, Captain.

828
00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:52.139
Look, I just got to get over her tiny.

829
00:37:52.139 --> 00:37:54.480
Her tiny syric loft.

830
00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:55.679
She's so tiny.

831
00:37:55.739 --> 00:37:57.179
He's really good.

832
00:37:57.239 --> 00:37:58.380
These 2 are so sweet.

833
00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:01.980
Like I just, I'm happy to spend time with them, even though this

834
00:38:01.980 --> 00:38:02.639
doesn't go anywhere.

835
00:38:02.699 --> 00:38:03.780
You know what's really sad?

836
00:38:03.780 --> 00:38:04.260
So much fun.

837
00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:07.619
I'm not going to talk about Aaron Eisenberg's staff every time

838
00:38:07.619 --> 00:38:09.960
he's on screen, you know, when we do one of these.

839
00:38:10.019 --> 00:38:13.800
What's really sad is he's clearly got some talent.

840
00:38:13.860 --> 00:38:17.039
You know, he's a really charismatic actor and when you give him

841
00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:18.539
stuff like it's only a paper nude.

842
00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:20.460
You can see what he's got in him.

843
00:38:20.519 --> 00:38:24.480
He didn't get a lot of work after DS9 and I don't know if it's

844
00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:27.599
that's a physical thing. you know, that he was a short bloke who

845
00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:28.500
looked a certain way.

846
00:38:28.980 --> 00:38:33.840
But what's wonderful about Star Trek is it can bring in, like you

847
00:38:33.840 --> 00:38:36.780
were talking in last week's episode about the blind actor who

848
00:38:36.780 --> 00:38:37.500
plays the engineer.

849
00:38:37.559 --> 00:38:41.460
They can bring in people and give them these really great acting

850
00:38:41.460 --> 00:38:41.940
roles.

851
00:38:42.179 --> 00:38:43.739
Mm.

852
00:38:43.739 --> 00:38:45.360
Yeah.

853
00:38:45.420 --> 00:38:46.920
And it's so weird, isn't it?

854
00:38:46.980 --> 00:38:51.119
Isn't it weird that they took this character that was in one scene

855
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:52.380
in emissary?

856
00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:55.920
And they gave him all this sort of comedy stuff to do.

857
00:38:56.039 --> 00:38:58.380
And then somewhere in the middle of series 3. like, no, we're

858
00:38:58.380 --> 00:39:00.420
taking on a real journey.

859
00:39:00.420 --> 00:39:04.019
So he starts off guarding Cisco's office suddenly trying to shake

860
00:39:04.019 --> 00:39:06.960
his hand saying, right, I want you to sign me up to Starfleet.

861
00:39:07.019 --> 00:39:07.679
Here's the goals.

862
00:39:08.940 --> 00:39:14.219
And from then on, his character just developed in leaps and bounds

863
00:39:14.219 --> 00:39:14.639
doesn't it?

864
00:39:14.820 --> 00:39:20.280
I think I think it's the genius of this was the decision to

865
00:39:20.280 --> 00:39:25.019
basically give every character a bunch of characters that

866
00:39:25.019 --> 00:39:25.920
surrounded them.

867
00:39:25.980 --> 00:39:29.639
So all of our people in the opening credits have characters that

868
00:39:29.639 --> 00:39:36.719
they go with, you know, so, uh, so, you know, Quark has Rom, Jake

869
00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:42.360
has Nog, um, Bashir has Garak, you know, and all of them end up

870
00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:45.119
with with people around them.

871
00:39:45.420 --> 00:39:47.099
So by the 7th season.

872
00:39:47.159 --> 00:39:49.980
They've all got one or 2 pairings, haven't they?

873
00:39:50.099 --> 00:39:51.960
That is where every time they're together.

874
00:39:52.019 --> 00:39:53.099
You're like, yeah this is gold.

875
00:39:53.159 --> 00:39:54.300
Yeah.

876
00:39:54.360 --> 00:39:57.539
And so you end up with like 30 characters and no other Star Trek

877
00:39:57.539 --> 00:39:58.380
has ever done that.

878
00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:01.980
I mean, you think about who is in Star Trek the Next Generation.

879
00:40:02.039 --> 00:40:02.699
Row.

880
00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:04.739
It's basically it, Mr. Monk.

881
00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:08.760
You have the old, like, Mr. Troy Gowron, but they're sort of 11

882
00:40:08.760 --> 00:40:10.079
episode a year characters.

883
00:40:10.139 --> 00:40:11.280
Yeah.

884
00:40:11.340 --> 00:40:15.539
And even last week, like even last week, we had Mitchell, who was

885
00:40:15.539 --> 00:40:21.780
with Ortegas, the woman who was the leader of the Red Guards, the

886
00:40:21.780 --> 00:40:23.159
leader of Ahuras.

887
00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:24.480
Oh, yeah.

888
00:40:24.539 --> 00:40:29.579
Ahura's Guards, and she had been at Ops or whatever.

889
00:40:29.639 --> 00:40:32.940
I can never remember what those stations are called, you know, in

890
00:40:32.940 --> 00:40:35.519
the opening thing, and she's been in a couple of episodes.

891
00:40:35.579 --> 00:40:40.139
There's someone who sits at Ahura's place when she's not on the

892
00:40:40.139 --> 00:40:42.300
bridge, a guy.

893
00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:43.860
I think I can, and he's got a name.

894
00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:47.519
But basically, it's just the characters in the opening credits.

895
00:40:47.519 --> 00:40:49.980
And I always think that's a little bit crap.

896
00:40:50.039 --> 00:40:51.900
And this does a great job.

897
00:40:52.019 --> 00:40:56.219
I think 90s shows, like, I think Voyager tried to do this.

898
00:40:56.280 --> 00:40:59.639
They tried to do their earrings and they just weren't as

899
00:40:59.639 --> 00:41:00.059
successful.

900
00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:02.219
There were some, like you had the doctor in seven.

901
00:41:02.219 --> 00:41:05.400
Janeway and Chuba when they thought about it.

902
00:41:05.639 --> 00:41:10.380
And they tried to do it with Harry Kim and Tom Paris, but you...

903
00:41:10.860 --> 00:41:14.159
But I mean, there's basically 8 people on the ship.

904
00:41:14.219 --> 00:41:15.960
Yeah, you know what I mean?

905
00:41:16.019 --> 00:41:17.519
Whereas this is early though.

906
00:41:17.579 --> 00:41:21.599
In series two, they try to bring in all these extra.

907
00:41:21.659 --> 00:41:23.760
And then Jerry Taylor was like, oh, I'm going to kill them all.

908
00:41:23.820 --> 00:41:26.280
Scott and Hogan and yeah, yeah, crazy.

909
00:41:26.340 --> 00:41:29.639
Brad Dureff, our consulting psychopath.

910
00:41:29.699 --> 00:41:34.860
But it does mean there are 2 layers to this story, aren't they, to

911
00:41:34.860 --> 00:41:35.400
this series.

912
00:41:35.460 --> 00:41:39.659
It means, you know, you can have a great a really well written

913
00:41:39.659 --> 00:41:41.460
episode and it's just great on those terms.

914
00:41:41.880 --> 00:41:46.139
And you've got the carrot stuff or you've got a sort of middling

915
00:41:46.139 --> 00:41:48.539
episode and great character stuff.

916
00:41:48.599 --> 00:41:49.559
Yeah.

917
00:41:49.619 --> 00:41:52.320
I mean, you know, Garrett gets his own episodes.

918
00:41:52.380 --> 00:41:56.400
You know, like, it's, uh, that's the best for the rung, I think.

919
00:41:56.579 --> 00:41:58.559
Oh, here we go.

920
00:41:58.739 --> 00:42:01.679
You know, when I was younger.

921
00:42:01.739 --> 00:42:03.659
There was this big ugly tree.

922
00:42:03.719 --> 00:42:05.639
It was a nasty old tree.

923
00:42:07.260 --> 00:42:09.059
I liked it.

924
00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:10.199
You know, it sounds great.

925
00:42:10.320 --> 00:42:12.900
Right, Cage has just given her a look as well.

926
00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:17.099
I know it's such a shit Star Trek speech.

927
00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:20.460
He goes, but you loved it, didn't you?

928
00:42:20.519 --> 00:42:21.480
No I hated it.

929
00:42:21.539 --> 00:42:26.340
Look at him smiling at the at the shitty story.

930
00:42:27.300 --> 00:42:31.500
I've acted in some of the finest productions that America has

931
00:42:31.500 --> 00:42:32.039
brought out.

932
00:42:32.099 --> 00:42:34.079
And family affairs.

933
00:42:34.860 --> 00:42:37.739
And now I'm listening to this shit.

934
00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:42.059
But you're right.

935
00:42:42.119 --> 00:42:45.900
Again, like his backstory, you know, his absurd backstory that

936
00:42:45.900 --> 00:42:47.280
we're supposed to laugh at.

937
00:42:47.340 --> 00:42:48.119
Yeah, yeah.

938
00:42:48.119 --> 00:42:51.960
Suddenly, I don't think anyone expected him to then start churning

939
00:42:51.960 --> 00:42:54.119
out a tree story as soon as Cisco appears.

940
00:42:54.239 --> 00:42:57.780
Well, that is so funny, tell him the tree story.

941
00:42:57.840 --> 00:42:58.440
That's great.

942
00:43:00.179 --> 00:43:02.159
That's brilliant.

943
00:43:02.219 --> 00:43:03.900
That saves that stupid.

944
00:43:04.320 --> 00:43:06.960
Peter Allen Fields knows what's not working.

945
00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:10.199
Yeah, it's making fun of it.

946
00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:12.360
So...

947
00:43:12.360 --> 00:43:14.579
Yeah.

948
00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:24.780
Yeah, and so this becomes, so does she kick him out, because she

949
00:43:24.780 --> 00:43:27.719
is worried about losing her job?

950
00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:30.780
I don't think so.

951
00:43:30.840 --> 00:43:33.179
I know, I never got that.

952
00:43:33.239 --> 00:43:34.440
Well, kick, kick.

953
00:43:34.440 --> 00:43:44.039
She agrees to destroy, to take Mullerbok. forcibly from here, which

954
00:43:44.039 --> 00:43:50.039
is the only choice that she's given after Cisco speaks to her and

955
00:43:50.039 --> 00:43:51.420
says, I'm worried about your career.

956
00:43:52.559 --> 00:43:54.420
Maybe then.

957
00:43:54.480 --> 00:43:59.099
And in that case, so the name progress, the word progress has got

958
00:43:59.099 --> 00:44:01.980
to be sort of ironic.

959
00:44:02.039 --> 00:44:02.699
Yeah?

960
00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:05.039
Like he's standing in the way of progress.

961
00:44:05.099 --> 00:44:09.840
They have to destroy a whole planet to heat some homes in winter.

962
00:44:09.900 --> 00:44:14.400
I don't think he's above using irony and this whole duet is very

963
00:44:14.400 --> 00:44:15.840
ironic, isn't it?

964
00:44:15.900 --> 00:44:17.340
Yeah, yeah.

965
00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:19.800
They are dancing in a very acidic way.

966
00:44:19.860 --> 00:44:20.400
Yeah.

967
00:44:20.460 --> 00:44:21.599
That's right.

968
00:44:21.659 --> 00:44:26.400
So progress is a good title, but does she do the wrong thing?

969
00:44:26.460 --> 00:44:30.599
Like, I don't know how I'm meant to feel about her decision.

970
00:44:30.659 --> 00:44:32.159
You know, you don't like that.

971
00:44:32.219 --> 00:44:34.139
I think you like a sort of definitive.

972
00:44:34.260 --> 00:44:36.780
No, no, I no, I do like that.

973
00:44:36.840 --> 00:44:42.900
There is something about that that I do like, but I wonder...

974
00:44:42.900 --> 00:44:45.539
I wish I had a clearer idea. doesn't muddy the water enough.

975
00:44:45.599 --> 00:44:47.280
I don't know, especially not in the 90s.

976
00:44:47.340 --> 00:44:51.239
And it's like at the end of Cubic's where Janeway marches him off

977
00:44:51.239 --> 00:44:55.320
to be murdered and it never condemns her for that action, what he

978
00:44:55.320 --> 00:44:56.820
does, but the crew doesn't.

979
00:44:56.880 --> 00:44:59.579
But you're left with that sort of uncomfortable.

980
00:44:59.639 --> 00:45:01.500
She just commit murder.

981
00:45:01.559 --> 00:45:05.880
Like, you know, I like I like that, that sort of unease.

982
00:45:06.539 --> 00:45:13.440
Yeah, yeah, here though, because I don't know, I just don't know

983
00:45:13.440 --> 00:45:15.119
why she does it.

984
00:45:15.179 --> 00:45:20.940
And I wish I wish there was something more about Mullabok or

985
00:45:20.940 --> 00:45:25.019
something that contributed to it. like if it was clearer or

986
00:45:25.019 --> 00:45:25.739
something, you know.

987
00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:29.639
Yeah, no, but if it was clear that Mullerbach was just an asshole

988
00:45:30.119 --> 00:45:35.699
you know, who was like the rich people from Mixedus too, who was

989
00:45:35.699 --> 00:45:37.980
just, do you know what I mean?

990
00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:42.059
Like, and she just goes, yeah, look, it's, like I said before, if

991
00:45:42.059 --> 00:45:44.699
she just grabbed him and says, stop being such a fucking drama

992
00:45:44.699 --> 00:45:49.260
queen, everyone else is doing this, a lot of people are going to

993
00:45:49.260 --> 00:45:49.860
benefit.

994
00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:51.059
You're not going to die.

995
00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:52.559
Just leave.

996
00:45:52.619 --> 00:45:54.119
I'm taking you with me.

997
00:45:54.179 --> 00:45:55.380
You know.

998
00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:59.280
None a visitor here where she's sort of blinking back the tears

999
00:45:59.280 --> 00:46:00.360
and says it's horrible.

1000
00:46:00.420 --> 00:46:01.920
What I've become is horrible.

1001
00:46:02.280 --> 00:46:04.739
I think she's great.

1002
00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:06.840
Yeah, yeah.

1003
00:46:06.900 --> 00:46:10.500
I just I just don't quite get what I'm supposed to think.

1004
00:46:10.619 --> 00:46:15.420
And I think I think it should be doing that.

1005
00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:17.880
Like I said, I don't mind ambiguity.

1006
00:46:17.940 --> 00:46:19.920
I don't mind any of those sorts of things, but I just think that

1007
00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:21.780
what this, what's this story about?

1008
00:46:21.840 --> 00:46:24.059
It's about Kira making this decision.

1009
00:46:24.119 --> 00:46:26.039
Why does she make that decision?

1010
00:46:26.099 --> 00:46:26.940
I think we need to know.

1011
00:46:27.420 --> 00:46:31.800
This sequence here as well, where he says, I like you.

1012
00:46:31.860 --> 00:46:32.699
You're my friend.

1013
00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:34.320
I worried about you.

1014
00:46:34.380 --> 00:46:36.179
You remember where they started an emissary?

1015
00:46:36.239 --> 00:46:37.739
You know, I suppose you won the office.

1016
00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:39.659
You know, it was very competitive.

1017
00:46:39.719 --> 00:46:43.619
I think how their relationship develops in the 1st 3 or 4

1018
00:46:43.619 --> 00:46:44.099
seasons.

1019
00:46:44.159 --> 00:46:48.119
It's really, it's quite subtle, but it's really beautifully

1020
00:46:48.119 --> 00:46:48.659
explored.

1021
00:46:48.780 --> 00:46:53.099
Do you remember when we get to um, Starship Down, where Cisco is

1022
00:46:53.099 --> 00:46:54.360
injured?

1023
00:46:54.420 --> 00:46:57.900
and she has to try and save him and she he's effectively like God

1024
00:46:57.900 --> 00:46:58.500
isn't he?

1025
00:46:58.559 --> 00:47:00.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1026
00:47:00.300 --> 00:47:00.960
You know.

1027
00:47:01.500 --> 00:47:06.300
I, I, so maybe that's, that's maybe progress is their relationship

1028
00:47:06.300 --> 00:47:06.659
as well.

1029
00:47:06.840 --> 00:47:09.059
Oh yeah, no, I think so.

1030
00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:11.699
I think that it does refer to their relationship too.

1031
00:47:11.760 --> 00:47:12.840
So do you know what I mean?

1032
00:47:12.900 --> 00:47:14.340
I just don't know how to feel.

1033
00:47:14.340 --> 00:47:18.960
I adored this scene where it's like, she's sort of sort of fussing

1034
00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:20.880
over him and he goes, you got to talk all night.

1035
00:47:20.940 --> 00:47:22.920
And then and then she goes, fine.

1036
00:47:22.980 --> 00:47:23.820
He goes, where you going?

1037
00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:24.719
I'm going back to sleep.

1038
00:47:24.780 --> 00:47:25.920
Well, pull the chair over here.

1039
00:47:25.980 --> 00:47:26.280
Come on.

1040
00:47:26.340 --> 00:47:27.900
Yeah, I knew my nurse.

1041
00:47:28.019 --> 00:47:28.980
You're supposed to be my nurse.

1042
00:47:29.039 --> 00:47:30.059
This reminds me of that.

1043
00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:33.719
So I used to volunteer for age concern and I looked after for a

1044
00:47:33.719 --> 00:47:39.659
year an old guy and boy, what's the most miserable curmudgeonly

1045
00:47:39.659 --> 00:47:43.019
old guy you've ever met in your life, you know, if he could read

1046
00:47:43.019 --> 00:47:45.239
something negative in something, he'd find it.

1047
00:47:45.300 --> 00:47:47.159
Oh, I loved him to pieces.

1048
00:47:47.219 --> 00:47:49.320
He used to open the door and say, what do you want?

1049
00:47:50.400 --> 00:47:53.099
It reminds me so much this guy.

1050
00:47:53.699 --> 00:47:58.019
I think, you know, when you become, you know, sort of 70 odd

1051
00:47:58.019 --> 00:48:01.920
you've got every right, you know, to be horrible to everybody

1052
00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:02.280
else.

1053
00:48:02.460 --> 00:48:05.039
Yeah, I think that's probably fair.

1054
00:48:05.340 --> 00:48:06.840
Yeah.

1055
00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:08.219
Hmm.

1056
00:48:08.219 --> 00:48:11.400
So...

1057
00:48:11.400 --> 00:48:12.599
Is this a bit thinking now?

1058
00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:16.679
is a bit like the relationship with her father in 2nd skin, isn't

1059
00:48:16.679 --> 00:48:16.860
it?

1060
00:48:16.980 --> 00:48:20.940
Like when he comes back, it's they're very sort of close like

1061
00:48:20.940 --> 00:48:21.239
this.

1062
00:48:21.300 --> 00:48:25.019
And maybe if the writing isn't selling it.

1063
00:48:25.079 --> 00:48:27.900
I think the acting is absolutely...

1064
00:48:28.019 --> 00:48:28.619
Yes, absolutely.

1065
00:48:28.679 --> 00:48:30.239
Yeah, I think so too.

1066
00:48:30.659 --> 00:48:32.760
I was just really involved.

1067
00:48:32.820 --> 00:48:33.840
Really involved.

1068
00:48:33.900 --> 00:48:37.739
I remember and from my 1st watch of this, I remember watching the

1069
00:48:37.739 --> 00:48:38.820
1st season of DS9.

1070
00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:42.539
I loved mystery to pieces and then there was all those sort of cod

1071
00:48:42.539 --> 00:48:45.119
TNG ripoffs, like cueless and things like that.

1072
00:48:45.179 --> 00:48:48.119
And then it got to stuff like vortex and this.

1073
00:48:48.119 --> 00:48:50.519
And I'm like, ooh, this is really new.

1074
00:48:50.519 --> 00:48:54.960
Like, Yeah, well, I reckon I've mentioned progress a bunch of

1075
00:48:54.960 --> 00:48:59.039
times on untitled Star Trek Project because it always struck me as

1076
00:48:59.039 --> 00:49:00.179
a very good episode.

1077
00:49:00.239 --> 00:49:04.380
And I think the reason it's good is these two.

1078
00:49:04.380 --> 00:49:07.559
You'd be hard pressed to find an episode quieter than this.

1079
00:49:08.460 --> 00:49:14.099
In terms of like plot, you know, or jeopardy or anything like

1080
00:49:14.099 --> 00:49:14.280
that.

1081
00:49:14.340 --> 00:49:14.880
Yeah.

1082
00:49:14.880 --> 00:49:15.599
Yeah.

1083
00:49:15.659 --> 00:49:16.199
Yeah.

1084
00:49:16.260 --> 00:49:19.559
And, you know, you could you could put this on the stage.

1085
00:49:19.619 --> 00:49:22.320
Like, it doesn't need to be television this, does it?

1086
00:49:22.380 --> 00:49:24.420
No, well, no.

1087
00:49:27.300 --> 00:49:32.039
Speaking of the stage, at the stage.

1088
00:49:32.099 --> 00:49:37.980
Here's another very, you know, clearly enunciated conversation

1089
00:49:38.760 --> 00:49:44.579
designed to be overheard by to lead. things like that and it's

1090
00:49:44.579 --> 00:49:48.239
things like, you know, when they put 2 people both looking at the

1091
00:49:48.239 --> 00:49:49.619
camera having a conversation.

1092
00:49:49.679 --> 00:49:50.219
Yeah.

1093
00:49:50.219 --> 00:49:53.039
It's when you're like, oh, we're definitely in the 90s here.

1094
00:49:56.400 --> 00:49:59.519
I do love the thing about dirt.

1095
00:49:59.579 --> 00:50:01.079
I think that's really great.

1096
00:50:01.139 --> 00:50:06.900
And it seems, is it a, is it a Ferengi thing or is it just, no, a

1097
00:50:06.900 --> 00:50:11.039
Ferengi dismissive of real estate is a potentially lucrative

1098
00:50:11.039 --> 00:50:12.719
investment, generally?

1099
00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:15.840
Gator has a, is a gator?

1100
00:50:16.800 --> 00:50:18.599
What's his cousin?

1101
00:50:18.599 --> 00:50:19.320
Who is the moon?

1102
00:50:19.380 --> 00:50:20.460
Oh, cousin Gala, yeah.

1103
00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:21.840
He's got his old moon, yeah.

1104
00:50:21.900 --> 00:50:24.000
Yeah, that's real estate.

1105
00:50:24.059 --> 00:50:24.599
That's dirt.

1106
00:50:24.659 --> 00:50:27.960
Odo goes, you know, unlike Gala, you know, although I've met

1107
00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:29.519
Frankie that are more wealthy.

1108
00:50:29.579 --> 00:50:32.400
I've never met any as devious as you, Quark.

1109
00:50:32.460 --> 00:50:33.239
Oh, no.

1110
00:50:33.300 --> 00:50:39.840
That means so much to me See, there's another parent.

1111
00:50:39.900 --> 00:50:43.800
Oh, look at this shot zooming in on Jake and Dog.

1112
00:50:44.519 --> 00:50:46.079
You know what?

1113
00:50:46.139 --> 00:50:49.679
They all just sort of, they paid us off in in the cards. because

1114
00:50:49.679 --> 00:50:53.460
he gets the latinum in this and then at the beginning I'm in the

1115
00:50:53.460 --> 00:50:55.320
cars, it's like, no.

1116
00:50:55.380 --> 00:50:57.480
You surely you've got some money.

1117
00:50:57.539 --> 00:51:00.659
It goes, yeah, yeah, I've got that money. got that money. from

1118
00:51:00.659 --> 00:51:01.079
bars.

1119
00:51:01.139 --> 00:51:02.639
And he goes, I've got about 5 bars.

1120
00:51:02.699 --> 00:51:05.460
It's under my bed and he's like, 0 nog, you don't really keep it

1121
00:51:05.460 --> 00:51:06.420
under your bed, do you?

1122
00:51:08.280 --> 00:51:09.719
Really?

1123
00:51:09.780 --> 00:51:11.579
So that's the 5 bars.

1124
00:51:11.579 --> 00:51:14.340
Like, he has slept with the 5 bars in that episode.

1125
00:51:14.400 --> 00:51:14.699
Yeah.

1126
00:51:14.760 --> 00:51:16.920
I hope so. would be awesome.

1127
00:51:16.980 --> 00:51:20.880
That is, that's one of the joys of having a seven-year run, isn't

1128
00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:21.059
it?

1129
00:51:21.119 --> 00:51:22.679
that you can play off things like that.

1130
00:51:22.860 --> 00:51:24.239
Yeah.

1131
00:51:24.300 --> 00:51:29.639
I never forget there's, um, you know, after rejoined, there's, um

1132
00:51:29.639 --> 00:51:33.780
an episode in series 5 series 6 where they go, oh, yeah, Lenara

1133
00:51:33.780 --> 00:51:37.679
Calm's been working on, you know, creating wormhouse so we can get

1134
00:51:37.679 --> 00:51:37.860
it.

1135
00:51:37.920 --> 00:51:39.360
So they do that quite a lot.

1136
00:51:39.420 --> 00:51:40.139
I like that.

1137
00:51:40.199 --> 00:51:41.219
Little streaks.

1138
00:51:42.239 --> 00:51:47.400
Yeah, I think Quark's reaction here is a little bit undercooked as

1139
00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:47.579
well.

1140
00:51:47.639 --> 00:51:49.079
I don't know what's happening.

1141
00:51:49.139 --> 00:51:51.300
That's unusual for Robin Sherman, yeah.

1142
00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:52.619
Yeah, yeah.

1143
00:51:52.679 --> 00:51:54.780
Like, uh...

1144
00:51:54.780 --> 00:51:56.099
Okay, so what, no way.

1145
00:51:56.219 --> 00:51:58.440
No, look, he must. no, no, no.

1146
00:51:58.500 --> 00:51:59.460
Like he gives...

1147
00:51:59.519 --> 00:52:03.599
Oh yeah, no, he gets the latinum and then he gets the, like, why

1148
00:52:03.599 --> 00:52:05.219
doesn't, that just makes no sense.

1149
00:52:05.280 --> 00:52:06.719
I don't I don't know.

1150
00:52:06.780 --> 00:52:08.039
He just wants Latinum, right?

1151
00:52:08.099 --> 00:52:08.460
Yeah.

1152
00:52:08.639 --> 00:52:12.659
Why doesn't he think he'll get latinum from the government, from

1153
00:52:12.659 --> 00:52:13.679
the Bajoran government?

1154
00:52:13.739 --> 00:52:16.559
Well, yeah, this could get a lot more of the sunrises.

1155
00:52:16.619 --> 00:52:18.000
Oh yeah, that's really nice.

1156
00:52:18.000 --> 00:52:18.719
The sunrises.

1157
00:52:18.780 --> 00:52:20.099
I look at this.

1158
00:52:20.159 --> 00:52:22.500
I mean, we haven't really talked about the interior set.

1159
00:52:22.559 --> 00:52:27.000
I think that's really nice there. you know, and it's go on.

1160
00:52:27.059 --> 00:52:31.500
I wish it was a house rather than just redressed standard cave set

1161
00:52:31.500 --> 00:52:31.860
one.

1162
00:52:34.380 --> 00:52:39.059
I like the fact the window looks like a Bajoran badge. combat.

1163
00:52:39.119 --> 00:52:39.960
Yeah, I do too.

1164
00:52:40.079 --> 00:52:43.199
Like, and the round door and stuff as well.

1165
00:52:43.260 --> 00:52:47.760
Like the, like the, they, which is why, you know what?

1166
00:52:47.760 --> 00:52:51.719
It just, it doesn't look like stock colony set number 58, though

1167
00:52:51.719 --> 00:52:52.199
which I like.

1168
00:52:52.739 --> 00:52:56.940
Yeah, imagine if they had just gone to a house in the country like

1169
00:52:56.940 --> 00:53:00.420
they do in Nepenthe, you know, like that might have been better.

1170
00:53:00.480 --> 00:53:02.340
Oh, that's about women doing that.

1171
00:53:02.340 --> 00:53:04.199
Oh, the suggestion, you know, going out on location.

1172
00:53:04.260 --> 00:53:05.400
Yeah, going outside.

1173
00:53:07.019 --> 00:53:09.539
It always baffles me as well.

1174
00:53:09.599 --> 00:53:11.579
Sometimes when they choose episodes to go outside.

1175
00:53:11.639 --> 00:53:14.400
Do you remember Times Orphan, that one where Molly O'Brien falls

1176
00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:17.400
down, they go to this beautiful park to film it.

1177
00:53:17.460 --> 00:53:19.800
I'm like, for that episode?

1178
00:53:22.920 --> 00:53:26.219
Yeah, I just like I like these bricks.

1179
00:53:26.280 --> 00:53:29.639
I really like the bricks that they're putting on the thing.

1180
00:53:30.059 --> 00:53:32.099
Yeah, it's like, so what?

1181
00:53:32.159 --> 00:53:33.119
I'm gonna go back on what I said.

1182
00:53:33.179 --> 00:53:34.440
They're so good together.

1183
00:53:34.500 --> 00:53:36.300
It is almost a shame we didn't get a bit more of them.

1184
00:53:36.719 --> 00:53:41.039
I really actually, and look, like I just don't know how to read

1185
00:53:41.039 --> 00:53:41.340
this.

1186
00:53:41.400 --> 00:53:43.739
He kind of goes yes, you're right there.

1187
00:53:43.800 --> 00:53:46.440
Like he, she says last one.

1188
00:53:46.500 --> 00:53:50.460
He knows what she means and he kind of accepts that that's what

1189
00:53:50.460 --> 00:53:59.159
she means and um, he puts the brick there and, Then what happens?

1190
00:53:59.219 --> 00:54:00.239
Do you know what I mean?

1191
00:54:00.300 --> 00:54:04.260
Like, yeah, then, yeah, like...

1192
00:54:04.260 --> 00:54:05.699
But then he does act shock, doesn't he?

1193
00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:09.840
Because he says, what the hell are you doing when she...

1194
00:54:09.900 --> 00:54:10.920
But he doesn't overact.

1195
00:54:10.980 --> 00:54:11.940
He doesn't overreact.

1196
00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:15.239
But what I love is when she starts setting fire to the house, you

1197
00:54:15.239 --> 00:54:17.699
know, this was Voyager, we'd have someone, you know, running

1198
00:54:17.699 --> 00:54:21.000
screaming, going, stop, you know, my house, you know, it would all

1199
00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:21.659
be very hysterical.

1200
00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:24.480
His muted reaction is...

1201
00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:25.860
I like that a lot.

1202
00:54:25.920 --> 00:54:27.179
I really like it.

1203
00:54:27.239 --> 00:54:30.119
And I just like the way that she lights bits of it and does it

1204
00:54:30.119 --> 00:54:33.840
slowly and then just throws the torch into the house and then

1205
00:54:33.840 --> 00:54:34.440
walks away.

1206
00:54:34.500 --> 00:54:36.780
I think all of that stuff is great.

1207
00:54:37.260 --> 00:54:41.519
I think this is where it's sort of scenes like this, moments like

1208
00:54:41.519 --> 00:54:41.760
this.

1209
00:54:41.820 --> 00:54:47.099
This is where if you cast brilliant actors in your ensemble.

1210
00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:49.739
You know, you get moments like this.

1211
00:54:50.880 --> 00:54:55.019
I can only imagine Robert Duncan McNeil acting out this soon.

1212
00:54:58.139 --> 00:55:01.320
Yeah, that's it.

1213
00:55:01.380 --> 00:55:02.400
Yeah.

1214
00:55:02.460 --> 00:55:04.500
And and that's it too.

1215
00:55:04.559 --> 00:55:09.000
Like, she, he says to her, you don't want to do this and she

1216
00:55:09.000 --> 00:55:10.619
doesn't disagree with him.

1217
00:55:10.679 --> 00:55:12.059
And clearly she doesn't.

1218
00:55:12.119 --> 00:55:15.300
You know, that's why she was kind of holding back tears with

1219
00:55:15.300 --> 00:55:17.820
Cisco.

1220
00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:20.340
But once she recasted as saving his life.

1221
00:55:20.400 --> 00:55:25.619
He's a stupid old man who will just make a point by staying here

1222
00:55:25.619 --> 00:55:27.360
and letting himself get killed.

1223
00:55:27.420 --> 00:55:31.739
And the only thing that she can do to stop that from happening is

1224
00:55:31.739 --> 00:55:35.579
this, and it's a real kind of act of violence that's kind of

1225
00:55:35.579 --> 00:55:39.539
nicely underplayed, and just such an unusually physical thing for

1226
00:55:39.539 --> 00:55:40.320
Star Trek.

1227
00:55:40.380 --> 00:55:42.420
But noisy trek as well. sets.

1228
00:55:42.480 --> 00:55:43.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1229
00:55:43.619 --> 00:55:44.760
I can't believe it.

1230
00:55:44.760 --> 00:55:47.519
No, our visitors set that entire time. right.

1231
00:55:47.579 --> 00:55:49.079
It's really good.

1232
00:55:49.079 --> 00:55:52.019
The feathers are there with the fire extinguishers like, car, come

1233
00:55:52.019 --> 00:55:52.380
on.

1234
00:55:52.440 --> 00:55:53.340
We've gotta get it out.

1235
00:55:54.780 --> 00:55:58.860
And yeah, I don't know.

1236
00:55:58.920 --> 00:56:02.219
So she's saving his life and it is also this thing where it's kind

1237
00:56:02.219 --> 00:56:05.760
of like she has to accept that she's a grown-up with grown-up

1238
00:56:05.760 --> 00:56:09.960
authority, that thing about parenthood that I said earlier, that

1239
00:56:09.960 --> 00:56:14.519
that she, he can have his tantrum or whatever, but she has to put

1240
00:56:14.519 --> 00:56:18.719
a stop to it in order to, in order to make sure he survives.

1241
00:56:18.780 --> 00:56:23.760
It's not just, um, it's not just about making sure that, look at

1242
00:56:23.760 --> 00:56:24.239
the fine.

1243
00:56:24.300 --> 00:56:27.119
I'm not sure Studio 6 is going to survive this, you know?

1244
00:56:27.179 --> 00:56:29.099
really going for it.

1245
00:56:29.519 --> 00:56:32.639
Oh, and that's the final shot, is it?

1246
00:56:32.699 --> 00:56:33.659
fade out on her face.

1247
00:56:33.719 --> 00:56:35.460
Yeah, let's...

1248
00:56:35.519 --> 00:56:37.079
Yeah, yeah.

1249
00:56:37.139 --> 00:56:39.599
It must be really interesting for me to write this recording, is

1250
00:56:39.599 --> 00:56:46.619
you sort of trying to, um, determine where the characters are at

1251
00:56:46.619 --> 00:56:49.679
and kind of not reaching any solid conclusions.

1252
00:56:49.980 --> 00:56:51.119
I don't think that's a terrible thing.

1253
00:56:51.179 --> 00:56:54.179
I think maybe it could have been a bit clearer in places.

1254
00:56:54.239 --> 00:56:59.760
Yeah, I think I think that if it's this decision that she makes, I

1255
00:56:59.760 --> 00:57:02.280
think we need to know why she makes that decision.

1256
00:57:02.340 --> 00:57:06.719
And either the episode has just said no, we'll leave people space

1257
00:57:06.719 --> 00:57:10.079
to work that out for themselves, okay.

1258
00:57:10.139 --> 00:57:12.840
But I would, I don't know.

1259
00:57:12.900 --> 00:57:13.440
I don't know.

1260
00:57:13.500 --> 00:57:17.340
Like Peter Allensfield's next script, you wear comes to a

1261
00:57:17.340 --> 00:57:19.739
definitive conclusion in its last scene.

1262
00:57:19.800 --> 00:57:21.300
He's a Cardassian.

1263
00:57:21.360 --> 00:57:23.639
Who cares that, yeah, that's reason enough to kill him.

1264
00:57:23.699 --> 00:57:25.139
She says, no, it's not.

1265
00:57:25.199 --> 00:57:26.400
And then we pull away.

1266
00:57:26.460 --> 00:57:27.960
Stupid ending.

1267
00:57:28.019 --> 00:57:29.099
I love that ending.

1268
00:57:29.159 --> 00:57:32.340
Well, he just gets killed by some rando.

1269
00:57:32.400 --> 00:57:35.639
You know, that shit... you comfort you wear, all right?

1270
00:57:35.699 --> 00:57:36.960
I love you.

1271
00:57:37.019 --> 00:57:40.500
I really like that episode, but that's terrible at ending.

1272
00:57:40.559 --> 00:57:46.320
What I will say about progress is you and I told off mic about TNG

1273
00:57:46.320 --> 00:57:47.820
episodes that did similar things.

1274
00:57:47.820 --> 00:57:50.099
So you've got Journeys End in series 7.

1275
00:57:50.099 --> 00:57:54.420
And you've got an episode, I think it's in series 3 quite early

1276
00:57:54.420 --> 00:57:57.119
where data goes to a colony and he has to try and get them all off

1277
00:57:57.119 --> 00:58:00.000
there and he's like blowing up an aqueduct.

1278
00:58:00.059 --> 00:58:05.699
And it's also functional and it's also sort of heartless.

1279
00:58:05.760 --> 00:58:09.539
Journey's End is a very awkward episode to watch.

1280
00:58:09.599 --> 00:58:12.179
I mean, it's trying to move native Americans.

1281
00:58:12.239 --> 00:58:13.260
Can you imagine?

1282
00:58:13.320 --> 00:58:16.679
It's so it's so icky, the representation.

1283
00:58:16.739 --> 00:58:19.139
I mean, puts Picard in the middle of that decision.

1284
00:58:19.199 --> 00:58:20.159
Do you know what I mean?

1285
00:58:20.219 --> 00:58:22.139
Like, and that decision plays out.

1286
00:58:22.199 --> 00:58:27.239
It's like I have my orders, but my ancestor did this, and in fact

1287
00:58:27.239 --> 00:58:31.199
all of us who are European have ancestors that did this.

1288
00:58:31.260 --> 00:58:36.239
I get it by...

1289
00:58:36.239 --> 00:58:40.679
And yeah, Patrick Stewart's going for it, but it's all a bit...

1290
00:58:40.739 --> 00:58:43.139
But there's no warmth to any of it.

1291
00:58:43.199 --> 00:58:45.719
There's no there's no sort of character to any of it.

1292
00:58:45.780 --> 00:58:47.219
I think this is that done.

1293
00:58:47.280 --> 00:58:49.380
That idea, just strip back.

1294
00:58:49.500 --> 00:58:54.000
Yeah. with great characters in there. and that's what works about

1295
00:58:54.000 --> 00:58:54.239
this.

1296
00:58:54.300 --> 00:58:59.400
I think I think DS9, especially in its 1st year, sort of looked at

1297
00:58:59.400 --> 00:59:02.519
TNG, so right, how can we do those types of stories?

1298
00:59:02.579 --> 00:59:05.340
Like, look at emissary, the very 1st scene of emissary.

1299
00:59:05.460 --> 00:59:09.119
We've seen 100 scenes of, you know, ships blowing up and and

1300
00:59:09.119 --> 00:59:12.659
debris, you know, rocks falling out of consoles, but we've never

1301
00:59:12.659 --> 00:59:16.139
seen something as up close as a man rushing to try and save his

1302
00:59:16.139 --> 00:59:20.039
wife during all of that and failing and then seeing his reaction

1303
00:59:20.039 --> 00:59:22.679
as they're pulling away from. you know so it gives that kind of

1304
00:59:22.679 --> 00:59:25.440
personal touch to all of that stuff that we've seen.

1305
00:59:25.500 --> 00:59:28.019
That's a huge strength of DS9.

1306
00:59:28.079 --> 00:59:29.099
Yeah, that's true.

1307
00:59:29.159 --> 00:59:32.579
And I think, dude, this is like a version of Deep Space 9 that we

1308
00:59:32.579 --> 00:59:33.719
don't end up going with.

1309
00:59:33.780 --> 00:59:37.920
But I kind of like this version, even though I don't think it's a

1310
00:59:37.920 --> 00:59:42.239
massive success and it is nice to watch the show develop from this

1311
00:59:42.239 --> 00:59:43.380
into something else.

1312
00:59:43.440 --> 00:59:50.820
And so we have 2 plots which are both kind of a showcase for the

1313
00:59:50.820 --> 00:59:54.659
regulars involved in them and they're fun and, you know

1314
00:59:54.659 --> 00:59:58.980
interesting and stuff and you get some proper acting for Kira.

1315
00:59:59.039 --> 01:00:03.420
You know, I just think it's a terrifically fun piece of work and

1316
01:00:03.420 --> 01:00:07.980
there are things to criticise as there always are, but I would be

1317
01:00:07.980 --> 01:00:11.940
lying if I said that I didn't enjoy watching this because I really

1318
01:00:11.940 --> 01:00:12.300
really did.

1319
01:00:15.360 --> 01:00:16.320
Yeah.

1320
01:00:37.380 --> 01:00:42.059
So, it's the end of the episode, and it's time for us to choose

1321
01:00:42.059 --> 01:00:46.380
what we are going to be talking about next time, and it's my turn

1322
01:00:46.380 --> 01:00:50.760
to press the button, so I am on untitled Star Trek project.com

1323
01:00:50.760 --> 01:00:56.460
slash randomiser, and I've picked 2 series of Star Trek, which

1324
01:00:56.460 --> 01:00:58.619
we're going to select from randomly.

1325
01:00:58.739 --> 01:01:02.760
I was about to say how random, but go on, which 2 series have you

1326
01:01:02.760 --> 01:01:03.119
chosen?

1327
01:01:03.179 --> 01:01:09.780
Well, um, we've just spent a lot of time in Kurtzman Trek just in

1328
01:01:09.780 --> 01:01:15.059
real life watching, uh, you know, 10 weeks of Picard series 3.

1329
01:01:15.360 --> 01:01:19.139
I watched all of Lower Decks through, you know.

1330
01:01:19.199 --> 01:01:20.099
Yeah, yeah.

1331
01:01:20.159 --> 01:01:22.079
Yeah, so I've done a lot of cursmen lately.

1332
01:01:22.139 --> 01:01:22.679
Yeah, yeah.

1333
01:01:22.739 --> 01:01:25.380
So I think we're going to stay on 90s track.

1334
01:01:25.440 --> 01:01:32.820
But we're going to choose the 2 most Star Trekie entries in the

1335
01:01:32.820 --> 01:01:34.320
Kurtzman Trek cannon.

1336
01:01:34.380 --> 01:01:36.599
So that's next generation and Voyager.

1337
01:01:36.840 --> 01:01:38.219
Okay.

1338
01:01:38.280 --> 01:01:38.820
Okay.

1339
01:01:38.880 --> 01:01:41.340
And we have done a lot of DS9 later.

1340
01:01:41.400 --> 01:01:41.820
We have.

1341
01:01:41.880 --> 01:01:42.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1342
01:01:42.780 --> 01:01:43.860
It's always good though.

1343
01:01:43.920 --> 01:01:45.659
Okay, let's go.

1344
01:01:46.920 --> 01:01:51.239
Your random Star Trek Voyager episode is counterpoint.

1345
01:01:51.300 --> 01:01:53.820
Oh, buck a wrap.

1346
01:01:53.880 --> 01:01:55.500
We already did that in episode 34.

1347
01:01:55.679 --> 01:01:58.980
Which we've, you know, sort of come to the conclusion might be one

1348
01:01:58.980 --> 01:02:00.840
of the strongest episodes.

1349
01:02:00.900 --> 01:02:01.380
Yeah.

1350
01:02:01.440 --> 01:02:06.599
I do use the randomiser to secretly push people towards listening

1351
01:02:06.599 --> 01:02:07.619
to the podcast.

1352
01:02:07.679 --> 01:02:11.639
So if it's one we've done, it will say, it says at the end here, we

1353
01:02:11.639 --> 01:02:15.960
cover this episode on Untitled Star Trek Project, episode 34 and a

1354
01:02:15.960 --> 01:02:16.320
link.

1355
01:02:16.380 --> 01:02:17.820
Oh, well, you're a genius.

1356
01:02:17.880 --> 01:02:19.199
Always marketing.

1357
01:02:19.260 --> 01:02:21.239
Absolutely. always be marketing.

1358
01:02:22.800 --> 01:02:24.840
Ooh.

1359
01:02:25.320 --> 01:02:28.380
So this is a two-parter.

1360
01:02:28.440 --> 01:02:32.579
It's one episode of a two-parter, and I think we're going to want

1361
01:02:32.579 --> 01:02:33.239
to do this one.

1362
01:02:33.300 --> 01:02:36.840
It's Scorpion part 2, I've rolled.

1363
01:02:38.219 --> 01:02:39.599
Fucker me.

1364
01:02:39.659 --> 01:02:43.500
I was just talking about counterpoint being the best of Voyager.

1365
01:02:43.559 --> 01:02:47.099
This might be the best, best point in Voyagers run.

1366
01:02:47.159 --> 01:02:48.059
Yeah, yeah.

1367
01:02:48.179 --> 01:02:53.340
And, you know, we spent 10 weeks with seven, seeing where that

1368
01:02:53.340 --> 01:02:57.539
character went and where she ended up and just loving how superb

1369
01:02:57.539 --> 01:02:58.260
she is.

1370
01:02:58.320 --> 01:03:01.320
And so this is her starting point.

1371
01:03:01.380 --> 01:03:02.280
What do you reckon?

1372
01:03:02.340 --> 01:03:05.760
I think it's one of the best realised Voyager episodes as well.

1373
01:03:05.820 --> 01:03:07.139
They put some money into this one.

1374
01:03:07.139 --> 01:03:08.280
It looks terrific.

1375
01:03:08.340 --> 01:03:10.860
Do you know, someone said on Twitter recently, the wonderful Jason

1376
01:03:10.860 --> 01:03:11.519
Thomson.

1377
01:03:11.579 --> 01:03:18.360
He said 7's arc is, because her 1st line in Scorpion is, I speak

1378
01:03:18.360 --> 01:03:19.320
for the Borg.

1379
01:03:19.380 --> 01:03:20.099
Wow.

1380
01:03:20.159 --> 01:03:25.079
And at the end of Picard, she speaks for the Federation, a

1381
01:03:25.079 --> 01:03:27.480
flagship of the Federation, and that's her run.

1382
01:03:27.539 --> 01:03:29.639
That's a terrific run as well.

1383
01:03:29.699 --> 01:03:30.960
Oh, we got to do that.

1384
01:03:31.019 --> 01:03:31.920
I think we do.

1385
01:03:40.980 --> 01:03:44.159
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1386
01:03:44.159 --> 01:03:45.360
and Nathan Bottomley.

1387
01:03:45.420 --> 01:03:48.599
We're online at untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find

1388
01:03:48.599 --> 01:03:51.599
links to our Twitter, Mastodon, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

1389
01:03:51.719 --> 01:03:55.260
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was

1390
01:03:55.260 --> 01:03:56.820
composed by Cameron Lam.

1391
01:03:56.880 --> 01:04:01.139
This episode was recorded on the 25th of April 2023 and released

1392
01:04:01.139 --> 01:04:02.159
on the 5th of May.

1393
01:04:02.219 --> 01:04:06.239
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Voyager, Scorpion and

1394
01:04:06.239 --> 01:04:07.800
Scorpion part two.

1395
01:04:23.159 --> 01:04:25.139
Yeah, I think we do.

1396
01:04:25.199 --> 01:04:29.099
And plus Harry Kim is mutilated and tortured horribly.

1397
01:04:29.159 --> 01:04:30.000
Oh, cool.

1398
01:04:30.059 --> 01:04:30.900
Excellent.

1399
01:04:30.960 --> 01:04:32.639
Which is always fun.

1400
01:04:32.639 --> 01:04:33.599
Doesn't get a promotion.

1401
01:04:33.659 --> 01:04:36.659
Yeah, well, I mean, this is their best of both worlds, isn't it?

1402
01:04:36.719 --> 01:04:37.980
It's the end of series three.

1403
01:04:38.039 --> 01:04:38.340
Yeah.

1404
01:04:38.400 --> 01:04:41.219
And they've got a cast change that they're going to do.

1405
01:04:41.280 --> 01:04:44.880
And they're going to make this as big as possible.

1406
01:04:44.940 --> 01:04:47.940
And I guess they've always been heading towards the Borg.

1407
01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:50.159
At some point, we knew that they would be coming.

1408
01:04:50.219 --> 01:04:54.059
Oh my god, it's got species 90210 as well.

1409
01:04:54.119 --> 01:04:54.719
What are they?

1410
01:04:54.780 --> 01:04:55.860
8472.

1411
01:04:55.980 --> 01:04:57.239
8472.

1412
01:04:57.360 --> 01:05:01.139
Which started off really well. although the CGI is a bit ropey. 80s

1413
01:05:01.139 --> 01:05:01.619
bit, right?

1414
01:05:01.619 --> 01:05:03.239
90s CGIs.

1415
01:05:03.539 --> 01:05:06.960
There's a weird comparison with Best of Both Wells because and

1416
01:05:06.960 --> 01:05:08.219
watch this with this in mind.

1417
01:05:08.280 --> 01:05:13.679
I think the best of both worlds part one is better than Scorpion

1418
01:05:13.679 --> 01:05:14.219
part one.

1419
01:05:14.280 --> 01:05:18.840
Yeah, but I think that Scorpion part 2 is way better than the best

1420
01:05:18.840 --> 01:05:19.860
of both worlds part two.

1421
01:05:19.920 --> 01:05:22.619
Because you've suddenly got you've suddenly got Jerry Ryan.

1422
01:05:22.679 --> 01:05:23.639
Yeah.

1423
01:05:23.699 --> 01:05:26.159
And I just don't think they quite knew where to go after that

1424
01:05:26.159 --> 01:05:28.079
cliffhanger in the best of both worlds, you know.

1425
01:05:28.139 --> 01:05:29.340
Were they clearly?

1426
01:05:29.340 --> 01:05:29.940
It's still great.

1427
01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:30.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1428
01:05:30.780 --> 01:05:35.400
It's still great, but it's the very rare thing of a 2nd part of a

1429
01:05:35.400 --> 01:05:38.099
2 parter being the more impressive.

1430
01:05:38.159 --> 01:05:38.880
Wow.

1431
01:05:39.000 --> 01:05:40.559
Well, that's going to be great.

1432
01:05:40.619 --> 01:05:41.219
Yeah.

1433
01:05:41.460 --> 01:05:42.900
Great.

1434
01:05:42.960 --> 01:05:44.340
Fire up Netflix now.

1435
01:05:44.400 --> 01:05:44.940
Okay.

1436
01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:46.019
Excellent.