WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-06 at 23:00:52

1
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Hey, Joe. Hello there.

2
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Hey, so we are back and we are back straight in tonight's track.

3
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It's the 1st season of Deep Space Nine. and it's the 15th episode, probably, and we are looking at progress, which is or has always been a bit of a favourite of mine, I think.

4
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It's always been one that I've admired a lot after watching it this week.

5
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It has catapulted itself into a favourite of mine.

6
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I thought this was really, really good.

7
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So I don't think it's a top tier Star Trek episode, but I think it is a very enjoyable one and one that's very competently done.

8
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I found that...

9
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So the thing I remember about progress is, of course, the relationship between Kira and Brian Keith.

10
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Gorgeous.

11
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Yeah, so Brian Keith is huge.

12
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So he was really big on TV in the sort of 1950s and 1960s.

13
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And what I remember is when I was a kid and it was like school holidays or something and I would switch the telly on to watch something at 9 in the morning, there would be a show called A Family Affair, or no, just called Family Affair, and it was like, Brian Keith was the father, and then there was Sebastian Cabot as Mr. French, who was their butler or something.

14
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And I remember it really well.

15
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I can't remember anything that happened in any episode, but I do remember his name and I certainly remember his face.

16
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He's got a very definite look.

17
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And so I think I probably recognised him when I 1st saw him in this and he's a get, I think.

18
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I'm coming to the conclusion that there are 2 types of guest actor in 90s trek. okay?

19
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You've either got bad ones.

20
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You've got the sort of murder she wrote of the week actor that comes in and is a bit wooden and a bit robotic.

21
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A bit like that woman in the one with the crystalline entity and I know you love her.

22
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I actually like that.

23
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She's so fucking wooden.

24
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She cannot display an emotion at all.

25
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And then you've got people like Harris Eulin into it and Brian Keith in progress who are actors that have acted for 60 plus years and can, you know, can come in, step into a role and inhabit it as if they have played that role their entire lives, which is exactly what he does here.

26
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He was so good in this.

27
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Yeah, I think it's really terrific.

28
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And I think, you know, mentioning the guy in duet.

29
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Like, I think, you know, Kurtwood Smith in Year of Hell.

30
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Mark Harelick in Counterpoint.

31
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You know, Matt Fruer, is it?

32
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In a matter of time.

33
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That was supposed to be Robin Williams, you know, that was written for Robin Williams, and he was going to do it right at the last minute and then a movie came up and he couldn't do it. he was pissed about that.

34
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Yeah, yeah.

35
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And I've always quite liked that version of Star Trek where they get someone in and they have a major role.

36
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Do you remember when we had Lawrence Pressman in 2nd skin as Kira's dad.

37
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That's another good example.

38
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Yeah, yeah.

39
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If you sort of go along, there's usually sort of 2 or 3 per season of each show where they brought in just a brilliant actor. to play one of these roles.

40
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But then you pair Brian Keefe up with then a visitor.

41
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Yeah.

42
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So a bit of trivia here.

43
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Michael Piller is quoted as saying that basically they lost sight Akira in the 1st half of season one.

44
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So they had her sort of fiery in emissary.

45
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Then they did pass prologue and then she doesn't get another episode until this point.

46
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Oh, wow.

47
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And she's just sort of angry, Kira, you know, like a move along home where she's like, you know, added not sign up for this, you know, and all this sort of, you know, express rage.

48
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And so they really wanted to write an episode that focussed on her as an administrator, post-terrorist, and they lean into that here brilliantly, are they?

49
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Yeah, so the one thing about it, though, is that I think it is rather diluted by the fact that there is a B plot, and I think the B plot is fantastic and super agreeable, and it's one of the things.

50
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Yeah, it's really great.

51
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And they're kids, like Jake is a child.

52
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Like, it's...

53
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You only had to say to it.

54
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When I said to you, what's the B plot for this?

55
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All you had to say to me was self-sealing stem bolts.

56
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And I was like, ah, yes, the no J consortium.

57
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Yes.

58
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And that's adorable, but it is really linear and it doesn't actually kind of go anywhere.

59
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Like there's no there's no reversals or anything.

60
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It's just fun.

61
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It's hang time. and it's...

62
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I was watching it, going, how the fuck is this land and these bolts going to sort of sneak into the apron?

63
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And then it never does.

64
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It's just we're hanging out with Jake and Nog for and I said to you, I love anything in series one, 2, and 3 with Jake and Nog, where we're just hanging out with them on the station and having an adventure.

65
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Do you know there is one slight thing where they do kind of dovetail, but no one seems to notice and nothing gets made of it, is that the Bajoran government wants to buy the land.

66
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Yeah, right. to do something, you know, and everyone else is sold, but but they haven't.

67
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And so now they're going to sell at a big price.

68
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And so that's a little bit like what's happening on this moon.

69
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But it never kind of, you know, that's not a thing that they do at this point in Star Trek.

70
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I also wonder too, I'm not sure entirely about all aspects of the A plot, and I think there are some production problems as well.

71
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But in spite of that, you've got this incredible performance, you've got an episode that sent us on Kira, which is always a good idea.

72
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I just think the whole thing is really just thoroughly enjoyable.

73
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It's just a good hour of television.

74
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No, you knew this was coming, so I'm going to say this, but like, you know, I know the sort of Star Trek you like.

75
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I know you love busy, exciting, weird looking, expensive, and this ain't none of that.

76
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It's none of it.

77
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It's not expensive.

78
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It's the cheapest probably episode of the season.

79
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It's one set and a couple of actors and then the standing sets.

80
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And it ain't a great set either, really.

81
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It's well lit.

82
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But, yeah, he's well, Lou.

83
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Like, we've watched a lot of very busy episodes of Star Trek recently. and they didn't involve me in the way this involved me. and it is, I think, purely, because I agree with you. sort of the nuts and bolts of the A plot of like why they have to get them off this moon.

84
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You know, who cares?

85
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The idea is to trap these 2 people together in this sort of impossible situation where she has to make a choice of whether to take him away or let him stay.

86
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And I think the chemistry between the actors, the relationship that's there.

87
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That was enough for this to really engage me.

88
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So I think sometimes I know I know Star Trek should be big and weird and strange new worlds and new civilisation, huge action set pieces and all of that.

89
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It can do all of that.

90
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But it can be just as compelling with 2 people in a room.

91
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I think that's true as well, but as we go, I'm not always entirely sure what Kira is thinking or why she's doing what she's doing and I think that's a problem because I think this episode has to be about.

92
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So she's a terrorist turned administrator, right?

93
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And she's become an authority figure, and this is the thing that happens to all of us, I think, eventually.

94
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Like if you're a parent, you go from being a child to a few decades later being a parent and then you hear yourself saying the thing that your parents said, you know, and I've had the same experience as a teacher, it's like, 0 my god, my father used to say that, you know, and it's that sort of thing where you know very well what it's like to have someone wielding authority over you.

95
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And now you're in a position where you wield authority over people.

96
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And I think that's super interesting.

97
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Do you know what I mean?

98
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Because it's really relatable, you know how to feel about it, and it's very definitely what's going on here.

99
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Yeah.

100
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So you don't have to have been a terrorist to kind of identify with what just happens to be a Baxter.

101
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But I'm not entirely sure that comparing her to the Cardassians kind of works, and I'm never entirely certain of what she wants to do.

102
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And I do think that final scene, though, where she helps him finish building the kiln and then destroys it.

103
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I think that's really good, but I do think that her motivation is muddy around some of it.

104
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So I can't always tell where she's coming from.

105
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Well, I think I think she, she hates what she's become, that she has become that person that will have to make those kind of decisions and force people away from in the way that, and I think she's just spending the whole episode resisting that.

106
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And then, in a beautiful scene, I think.

107
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Cisco beams down and tells her, you know, you're on the other side.

108
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You've got to accept that you are on the other side now.

109
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And it's a really, it's a lovely, very understated but emotional scene.

110
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Yeah, he underplays it.

111
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Oh, he's really.

112
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Not like having a week off this week.

113
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I couldn't believe it.

114
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Do you remember dramatic persona?

115
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He won't put too much into that one.

116
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No, he's excited about the clock, you know, like...

117
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Um, we should probably go in.

118
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I've got just one more bit of trivia to hit you with before we go in.

119
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And that is, well, it's a question, really.

120
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What do the Passion of the Christ, Iron Man 2, Doctor Who, the movie, the greatest Showman, Hocus Pocus, and Progress, have in common?

121
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Who did the music?

122
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It's John Demney. did the music, but all of that.

123
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So John Devney is one of the most prolific Hollywood musicians out there.

124
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He has got about 350 films to his name and television.

125
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He scored 2 episodes of DS9, this and the Nagus, and one episode of TNG, the Pegasus.

126
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Oh wow.

127
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I mean, weirdly though, he's totally gone for the house style.

128
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I was really listening to the music as I was watching it.

129
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It's just wallpaper.

130
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Where I thought he scored really well was in the last scene. where it's, is it?

131
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and it is understated because all music is.

132
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Star Trek is understated.

133
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But it actually is quite beautiful.

134
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I'm not sure if you'll be able to hear the music as we're going into this, but weird that this, you know, massive Hollywood musician just turned up on starting for 3 episodes just for this week.

135
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I think this was before it hit me, though, you know.

136
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Okay.

137
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Well, probably progress was an important part of that process.

138
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He even did the into the advert stings, I noticed.

139
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Yes, they were as good as they always are.

140
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Let's get it happening.

141
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I'll count us in.

142
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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

143
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Okay, so we start on the B plot.

144
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And one of the things that struck me about this is how incredibly stagey it is.

145
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So, you know, um, Quark and this guy, who's this guy?

146
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Who is a semi-recular?

147
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It does turn up.

148
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It's usually the one, you know, that he throws drinks out and things like that.

149
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Okay.

150
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So, so they're having this conversation loudly and clearly enough to be over.

151
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And just to show it listening, dogs ears, like right over here, yeah.

152
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Do you know what?

153
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You might think this is stagey.

154
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A bit later where they're playing cards again and Quak and Odo come in and go, you know, ah, someone...

155
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And then the camera zooms straight through them on so called Canodo.

156
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I was like, man.

157
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I don't like this anymore, do they?

158
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The 2 scenes that backend this B plot are both so stagely done.

159
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And like the thing about it, though, like the thing about this B plot is look at how tiny Jake is.

160
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Look at what a little kid he is and just how much fun it is to just have half of the episode to hang out with them. immediately just hit me was they just cast this show so well.

161
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Even these extraneous characters, they've clearly put effort and the chemistry between Sir Lofton and Aaron Eisenberg, it is palpable, you know.

162
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And like you and I said, all these little B plots eventually lead us to in the cards, which is sort of like the ultimate J.K. Nog episode.

163
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Yeah, yeah, this is like a dry run for in the cards, I think.

164
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Um, so here we have Toran.

165
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Minister, this is the only episode.

166
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I think so yeah.

167
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Minister Teran.

168
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So I've saw lots of various myth.

169
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There must be 100s of the bloody people because they pop up every now and again, you know, just to make sure that the Federation is running things well.

170
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This is a kind of aborted version of the show, isn't it?

171
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Like, it's like, we're basically going to hang around, um, Bajor and its moons.

172
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I mean, storyteller was reasonably recent or it's around about this part of the season.

173
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After...

174
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Yeah, yeah.

175
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And that, again, is, you know, we go to another moon of Bejor and there's people there.

176
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We're not actually, so that's fair. just going to the various Bajoran moons.

177
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Yeah, and then they eventually decide actually that's too tedious and we'll do something else and it becomes a giant geopolitical thing, which is much more fun.

178
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But this sequence here where this is the 1st sign that Jadzia will fuck anybody because she's talking about this conversation she's had with Morn.

179
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And Kira's like, right.

180
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She goes, you know, there's kind of sort of 2 or 3 wiry hairs that come out of his chin.

181
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I think they make him look kind of cute.

182
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Yeah.

183
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She's a dirty bitch.

184
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I'll tell you.

185
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Kira's really, right?

186
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racist about that.

187
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She's terrible.

188
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She's terrible about everyone.

189
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She goes, what is it?

190
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Bodet with the transparent skull.

191
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She goes, look.

192
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I don't like to have dinner, you know, and see people's brains.

193
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Oh, here we are.

194
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Okay.

195
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So, I think the script wants this set to be much, look at the painting in the back on the mountains. painted in the background.

196
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Look, the thing that they can do and that they have been able to do ever since around about the middle of TNG's run is outdoor lighting that looks like sunlight.

197
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Yeah?

198
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Don't you think they do that quite well?

199
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I do, and I think they do really well with this episode as well, especially when you're inside the house.

200
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Yeah, yeah.

201
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But I think the set needs to be, look, here's the thing, right?

202
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This is a moon of Bajor. 50 people live on it and 47 of them evacuated.

203
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These 3 haven't evacuated.

204
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That's all that lives on it.

205
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It's habitable.

206
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It's sunny.

207
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There's plants, it's a lovely place, and they're just going to completely destroy it. in order to like build some fucking wind mills people.

208
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Like, what are we doing?

209
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Do you know what I mean?

210
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So they want to use its geothermal energy or something.

211
00:16:24.539 --> 00:16:39.240
Are you attempting to suggest to me that if the conservative government or the government's around the world, found a way of the moon, not, you know, affecting the tide, that they could destroy that moon and turn it into a sense of fuel, that they wouldn't do it?

212
00:16:39.299 --> 00:16:40.740
Because I'm telling you, they would.

213
00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:41.580
No, that's right.

214
00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:59.039
But, I mean, it's kind of stupid, whereas if it was really precarious, it would work as well because he's choosing to live on this sort of desolate rock because he feels like he's been, he, you know, Bajor isn't his home anymore and he's struggled and tried to make a place there.

215
00:16:59.100 --> 00:17:03.419
But it all looks so edenic that you can't kind of buy that.

216
00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:07.079
I think he just comes off as an asshole, I think.

217
00:17:07.140 --> 00:17:11.400
But not an arsehole enough because Peter Allen Fields, who wrote this episode.

218
00:17:11.460 --> 00:17:13.019
He wrote this and duet.

219
00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:16.559
I think he took the 1st hand at the visitor and in the Pale Moonlight as well.

220
00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:18.900
He is one of the best writers of DS9.

221
00:17:19.740 --> 00:17:25.619
He said that in execution, this didn't match what he was writing in the script.

222
00:17:25.619 --> 00:17:36.180
And not so much, not so much the setting, but Mullabok, who he says, he said he thought Brian Keith gave a brilliant performance, but he's supposed to be an arshole.

223
00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:38.460
And he plays it with a lot of wolf.

224
00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:40.859
And I'm kind of glad he does because that's what sold me on the episode.

225
00:17:40.920 --> 00:17:43.380
Yeah, that's what's fun to watch, I think.

226
00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:45.359
And that's why you can't spray.

227
00:17:45.420 --> 00:17:50.039
But he wanted to put Kira in that situation of having to protect a complete CUNT.

228
00:17:50.099 --> 00:17:50.640
Yeah.

229
00:17:50.640 --> 00:18:07.440
Well, see, the great thing is that they make fun of this in an episode of Lower Decks that we've done, Cupid's errand arrow, where the 2 people who live on mixed us too. won't let them destroy the moon when it's going to crash into mixed to three.

230
00:18:07.500 --> 00:18:12.180
And when Freeman discovers it's only 2 people.

231
00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:14.039
She goes, what, 2 people?

232
00:18:14.099 --> 00:18:14.640
Both of you?

233
00:18:14.700 --> 00:18:15.240
What do you mean?

234
00:18:15.299 --> 00:18:17.339
And they say, oh, yeah, we're rich.

235
00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:19.200
She just says blow the moon.

236
00:18:20.099 --> 00:18:25.259
We don't get 45 minutes of them beaming them down, trying to convince them.

237
00:18:25.319 --> 00:18:26.400
Do you know what?

238
00:18:26.460 --> 00:18:30.240
I love the fact that every single lighter comes, he's just baiting her all the time, isn't he?

239
00:18:30.299 --> 00:18:33.480
Yeah, you know, Nathan, halfway pretty, you know.

240
00:18:34.200 --> 00:18:45.900
Girl, like calling her a girl is really funny, but then there's another really funny thing where he makes her compare herself to the Kardassians.

241
00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:51.539
Like the comparison between her and the Cardassians, you know, these are just uniforms coming to tear us away from our home.

242
00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:57.180
It doesn't matter if they can't Essians or Bajorans, you know, and there's something to be said for that, but he makes her make that.

243
00:18:57.539 --> 00:19:00.180
The way she plays that...

244
00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:04.380
He says, you know, like, oh, you know, how did you, how did you fight them?

245
00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:06.299
And she goes, well, we hung on like fanatics.

246
00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:07.140
He goes, that's it.

247
00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:07.859
That's it.

248
00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:09.779
He goes, oh, yes, I must remember that.

249
00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:13.140
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

250
00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:14.339
That's the bit I made.

251
00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:17.099
It's lovely Oh, I love you know what?

252
00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:20.579
You know when they hang out on that bit of the promenade there. that's sort of intersex.

253
00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:21.180
Yeah.

254
00:19:21.180 --> 00:19:22.140
They even have a bit.

255
00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:26.400
When he goes off to the academy, you know, they have their last scene there with their legs hanging over the edge.

256
00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:28.019
Yeah.

257
00:19:28.019 --> 00:19:29.700
I don't know if you remember.

258
00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:38.940
There's a scene a couple of episodes later where Jake's doing it on his own, and Odo comes up to him, like he always used to when it was Jake and Nog, and he goes, oh, I suppose you want me to move on?

259
00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:41.039
He goes, no, I never wanted you to move on.

260
00:19:41.099 --> 00:19:42.000
It was Nog.

261
00:19:42.059 --> 00:19:43.440
I was always going off.

262
00:19:46.500 --> 00:19:48.599
So this alien.

263
00:19:48.660 --> 00:19:51.839
So he's a Lasepian.

264
00:19:51.900 --> 00:19:54.299
I think that looks pretty good.

265
00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:57.900
And that is a step up from Star Trek, the Next Generation Aliens.

266
00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:00.000
They're annoying, though, because they often do this.

267
00:20:00.059 --> 00:20:05.819
Put a lot of effort into these one seed aliens. and then you get like the Beaumar that are in a whole episode.

268
00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:07.680
That's right. right.

269
00:20:07.740 --> 00:20:08.940
There's nowhere foot at all.

270
00:20:09.059 --> 00:20:10.680
So what is it?

271
00:20:10.740 --> 00:20:13.500
They started off with Cardassian Yamak sauce.

272
00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:16.319
Which they still haven't asked if they can have yet.

273
00:20:16.380 --> 00:20:20.640
And they've already traded it for self stealing stem bolts.

274
00:20:20.700 --> 00:20:21.960
Yeah.

275
00:20:22.019 --> 00:20:37.200
One thing that I miss a little bit here, and I think they get it right in the cards, but they've had years of experience by then, and this is very early, is I don't think Jake should be better than Nog at this.

276
00:20:37.259 --> 00:20:38.640
And in this episode.

277
00:20:38.700 --> 00:20:43.619
Nog is usually wrong and Jake is the one who gets him to do the right thing.

278
00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:52.859
And I think it's more fun to have Nog be super Frankie and Frankie, you know, from Burr for just terribly good at this.

279
00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:55.019
You know what the best example of that is.

280
00:20:55.079 --> 00:21:03.119
It's the series 7 episode, Treachery Faith in the Great River, when Chief O'Brien, he's like, oh, God, we need this part for the Defiance.

281
00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:05.880
Cisco said, if I don't get it fixed by the time he's back, I'm dead.

282
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:07.799
So Nog's like, don't worry, I'll get it for you.

283
00:21:07.859 --> 00:21:09.240
Just give me your authorisation code.

284
00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:10.619
And he gives it to it.

285
00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:14.519
And then he starts trading and he trades Captain Cisco's desk.

286
00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:16.500
That's right.

287
00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:18.180
It's so fun.

288
00:21:18.299 --> 00:21:19.500
It's so funny.

289
00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:21.480
Oh dear.

290
00:21:21.900 --> 00:21:28.019
And what do you think about, um, what do you think about what's his face and what's her face?

291
00:21:28.079 --> 00:21:29.579
Beltram and Kino?

292
00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:36.599
Well, I really liked was it managed to show the horror of what the Kardashians did without us in a world.

293
00:21:36.660 --> 00:21:38.460
I really like that where he says they don't say a word.

294
00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:39.960
The Cardassians took care of that.

295
00:21:40.019 --> 00:21:46.319
And that to me says way more than hearing some agonising backstory of what they've been through, you know?

296
00:21:46.380 --> 00:21:47.759
Yeah, no, I agree.

297
00:21:47.819 --> 00:21:51.180
But they just can't talk for budgetary reasons, can they?

298
00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:55.140
Don't you think?

299
00:21:55.200 --> 00:22:03.059
Isn't that why they can't talk and all just sort of seems like, well, we'll have 2 people here, but we don't want to write a part for them because then that complicates the story.

300
00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:06.539
And so we just have them not talking and we don't have to pay them.

301
00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:12.240
You remember when we said in Strange New Worlds, with Pike making dinner and when Star Trek sort of goes a bit...

302
00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:17.579
I do like it when he goes a bit domestic like this, you know. less at console, more scrubbing roots, you know?

303
00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:19.619
Yeah, yeah.

304
00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:24.240
And also because this is a world that's super familiar to the people who are in it.

305
00:22:24.299 --> 00:22:29.759
Like, what, how much do we get a sense of what Bajor is like during the run of the show?

306
00:22:29.819 --> 00:22:36.960
Maybe not as much as we should because the show loses interest in Bajor and goes off and does other things.

307
00:22:37.019 --> 00:22:44.400
But here it's, you know, like the roots and the, you know, soup and all of that sort of thing.

308
00:22:44.460 --> 00:22:44.940
I don't know.

309
00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:45.420
I don't know.

310
00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:47.519
I think all's really interesting is you're right.

311
00:22:47.579 --> 00:22:51.599
It does, they, they, basically, these are the least popular episodes, the Bajoran ones.

312
00:22:51.660 --> 00:23:00.720
Because people are, they've gone from TNG, which is exploring new planets every week to just hanging around on a farm, you know, like, and people are like, what's what's happened to Star Trek?

313
00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:02.759
And they do push away from that.

314
00:23:02.819 --> 00:23:07.440
But you still have episodes like Rapture, a session, the B plotting in the cards.

315
00:23:07.500 --> 00:23:11.640
You remember that's Kai Wynn coming along and negotiating with the Dominion.

316
00:23:11.700 --> 00:23:14.880
And then in the last season, they're like, well, do you know what?

317
00:23:14.940 --> 00:23:15.599
This is our last year.

318
00:23:15.660 --> 00:23:16.680
We can do what we want.

319
00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:24.900
And they have that whole plot of Kai Wynn and Dukat on Bejor and they really lean into it again in that last year of like where Bajor is.

320
00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:26.880
I know you don't like that so much, but it's fun.

321
00:23:26.940 --> 00:23:40.079
Well, no, because I mean, I think I think it's just locating one of the power, like, you know, you've got a Cardassian and you've got a Bajoran and she's Kai Wyn, and you've got Martoc, and you've got, do you know what I mean?

322
00:23:40.140 --> 00:23:43.200
Like each race is represented by kind of one person.

323
00:23:43.259 --> 00:23:48.539
And so the person who represents Bajor is Kai Winn, and obviously Louise Fletcher is fantastic and stuff.

324
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:53.759
But Bajor itself, I think we get sick of after the incredible 3 partner.

325
00:23:54.299 --> 00:23:55.380
Every time we go back, too.

326
00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:57.180
They're always behaving.

327
00:23:57.240 --> 00:23:59.400
I think the Bajorans are a fickle bunch, you know.

328
00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:08.279
So in a session, they're all happy to go back to their de genres. even though it means everybody has to quit their jobs and, you know, curiosity at BFB.

329
00:24:08.339 --> 00:24:09.960
It's a good episode.

330
00:24:10.019 --> 00:24:14.099
It's a really strong episode because the whole point of that is Cisco is the emissary.

331
00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:15.299
He doesn't want to do it.

332
00:24:15.420 --> 00:24:23.759
Actually, someone comes in who says he's the emissary and then he's like, shit, I need to do this because he's going to completely turn this planet upside down.

333
00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:30.900
They don't completely forget about it, but it's less it's less important than it is in the 1st 2 years.

334
00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:33.660
Yeah, because they don't quite know what they're doing.

335
00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:36.180
It's just like, we'll put 2 characters in a runabout.

336
00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:37.619
We'll go to a place.

337
00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:44.940
It doesn't matter. whether that place is on another planet or on region of Beijor, but it kind of turns out it does, I think.

338
00:24:45.059 --> 00:24:46.200
Do you know what?

339
00:24:46.259 --> 00:24:47.700
We have that gorgeous scene in a minute.

340
00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:57.059
You were talking about it on the on the thread where they're having dinner together and he's making up some god awful, hilarious backstory.

341
00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:06.900
How he got his hands and knees and dug up the fields, you know, and tighten with his fingernails and stuff. so he didn't know he was hungry.

342
00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:10.980
It's really fun, isn't it?

343
00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:13.500
I don't know what it is, but it is great.

344
00:25:13.559 --> 00:25:16.859
It's, I don't know.

345
00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:21.000
Like, it's, you know, like he can't expect to be believed.

346
00:25:21.059 --> 00:25:25.680
It's like a heroic retelling of his story, which is really funny.

347
00:25:25.740 --> 00:25:27.299
There's a lot of sort of humour in it.

348
00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:32.400
I don't know how you can say that without being likeable.

349
00:25:32.460 --> 00:25:40.019
Like the script, if Peter Allen Fells says, um, you know, the trouble is, Mullabok ended up being too likeable.

350
00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:46.079
You can't have an unlikeable character deliver that because that's funny and he's being funny.

351
00:25:46.140 --> 00:25:50.339
Like there's another way. as being literal, which is even funnier.

352
00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:51.720
No, he can't have been.

353
00:25:51.779 --> 00:25:54.420
I wonder if Peter Rader feels like...

354
00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:55.019
TNG.

355
00:25:55.140 --> 00:25:57.720
All these, you know, really terrible backstories.

356
00:25:57.779 --> 00:26:01.319
We keep getting, you know, sort of speeches that these one off characters.

357
00:26:01.380 --> 00:26:02.940
He's going, oh, I've got to rip this.

358
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:04.019
I've got to take the piss.

359
00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:10.980
I want to know who this human woman at the bar is looking at looking at Drake.

360
00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:12.539
She doesn't approve of children.

361
00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:14.880
Oh, look at that shot.

362
00:26:14.940 --> 00:26:18.299
You get an exterior shot of the house with a sort of moon.

363
00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:21.240
I think that might be a light, you know, rather than CGI effect.

364
00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:29.940
There is a later shot of the sunrising over Bajor, and it struck me as something that the show never really does again.

365
00:26:30.059 --> 00:26:33.839
There's a real warmth to how this is shot, though, this dinner scene.

366
00:26:33.900 --> 00:26:34.980
I really.

367
00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:39.000
Yeah, but there's a lot of yellow lighting for this planet, isn't there?

368
00:26:39.059 --> 00:26:41.700
Yeah, this, this is so funny.

369
00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:42.660
It's so ridiculous.

370
00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:47.039
There I was staring starvation in the face again.

371
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:51.599
Oh, look, the other 2 did a little bit of acting.

372
00:26:51.660 --> 00:26:52.980
They did a little reaction shot.

373
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:54.299
It's old Mullerpok.

374
00:26:54.359 --> 00:26:55.140
What a twat.

375
00:26:55.200 --> 00:27:00.000
But just so Super was like when it goes to, you know, how about some of that lovely wine?

376
00:27:00.059 --> 00:27:01.019
Please.

377
00:27:01.079 --> 00:27:03.720
You know, I just feel like there's established relationships here.

378
00:27:03.779 --> 00:27:07.440
Like this doesn't always work when we come down and meet characters.

379
00:27:07.500 --> 00:27:09.119
I don't know if you remember that episode.

380
00:27:09.180 --> 00:27:15.059
Oh god, it's in season one of Voyager, where Tom Paris is accused of murder.

381
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:16.559
It's all told a sort of flashback.

382
00:27:16.619 --> 00:27:22.619
And you meet a bunch of people a bit like this and they have it in the scene and it's fucking agonising to watch.

383
00:27:25.559 --> 00:27:30.000
Like Kieran now twice has said, I want to hear who won.

384
00:27:30.059 --> 00:27:31.799
I want to hear how this story ends.

385
00:27:31.859 --> 00:27:38.519
And she's being a cow because obviously she knows how the story ends because it ends with them right here.

386
00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:40.619
She's making fun of him.

387
00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:43.079
Like, he's telling this preposterous story.

388
00:27:43.140 --> 00:27:47.579
She's pretending to engage with it, even though she knows kind of what's happening.

389
00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:54.720
Like this, the ploughing the plum straight lines, you know, with his fingernails. and stuff.

390
00:27:54.779 --> 00:27:56.640
And like, she's really enjoying it.

391
00:27:56.700 --> 00:27:58.140
Look at look at her reaction.

392
00:27:58.200 --> 00:28:00.180
It's really terribly fun.

393
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:02.640
No, you know, this is the 1st season.

394
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:06.180
And she is pretty fully formed, isn't she?

395
00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:06.960
in her performance.

396
00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:09.059
Yeah.

397
00:28:09.059 --> 00:28:16.680
I don't, I would never want to underestimate, I think she is like the MVP of Deep Space 9 and a visitor.

398
00:28:16.740 --> 00:28:19.259
I think she's probably the best actor in it.

399
00:28:20.220 --> 00:28:22.740
But the competition...

400
00:28:22.740 --> 00:28:24.299
Yeah, the bar is high.

401
00:28:24.420 --> 00:28:26.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

402
00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:27.599
Yeah.

403
00:28:27.660 --> 00:28:32.579
I think it's the best cast of the 90s track series with no doubt.

404
00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:40.380
It's kind of like, I think it's a sort of show where, like, if the episode isn't great, you're still going to get some great acting.

405
00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:41.700
Yeah, yeah.

406
00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:43.980
Except dramatic persona.

407
00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:47.279
It's it's funny.

408
00:28:47.339 --> 00:28:53.400
There's been so little of this cast coming back I mean, you know, oversight, I think.

409
00:28:53.940 --> 00:28:59.759
Yeah, but I, you know, like I think they must all like Deep Space 9.

410
00:28:59.819 --> 00:29:07.500
Like, you know, anyone who loves Star Trek has a higher regard for Deep Space 9, I think, because it does things that other Star Trek's never managed to do.

411
00:29:07.559 --> 00:29:11.160
I mean, the fella who show rum series, was it Terry?

412
00:29:11.220 --> 00:29:12.000
Is it Matelas?

413
00:29:12.059 --> 00:29:12.539
Is that how you say?

414
00:29:12.539 --> 00:29:13.619
Metalis?

415
00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:19.619
He said that if that new Star Trek legacy show comes up, there will be characters from DS9 in it.

416
00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:20.880
That's the pitch.

417
00:29:20.940 --> 00:29:23.579
So I don't think they've forgotten them.

418
00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:25.740
It could have been availability as well.

419
00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:26.819
I mean, they're good actors.

420
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:27.480
They probably working.

421
00:29:27.539 --> 00:29:29.220
Yeah, yeah.

422
00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:35.220
Well, and and we did have Arman and an art in an episode of Flower Decks. they haven't been completely forgotten.

423
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:39.539
Exterior looks so much better at night. the lights are down.

424
00:29:39.599 --> 00:29:40.259
Yeah.

425
00:29:40.619 --> 00:29:44.160
I think also this is this sounds stupid.

426
00:29:44.220 --> 00:29:51.599
This sounds really trivial. but so much of 90 Star Trek is people standing around talking and saying what they're thinking.

427
00:29:51.660 --> 00:29:55.319
You know, there's no subtext or anything like that.

428
00:29:55.440 --> 00:30:14.099
And maybe they don't quite nail it here, but having the kiln and having physical business that the actors do about the kiln and the kiln represents some kind of investment in his future here.

429
00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:24.059
And so he's continuing to build the kiln, even though he knows that he's only got a few days left on the planet or a week.

430
00:30:24.119 --> 00:30:26.519
And then she starts building the kiln as well.

431
00:30:26.579 --> 00:30:29.519
And I think, you know, it's simple.

432
00:30:29.579 --> 00:30:34.380
It's not earth shattering, but it's not, it's a bit unusual, I think, for Star Trek.

433
00:30:34.440 --> 00:30:41.339
Okay, what really works is what you said, the last scene where she says she has him the last one and says the last one.

434
00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:42.299
We're going.

435
00:30:42.359 --> 00:30:42.960
Yeah.

436
00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:46.859
Completing the kiln is, is when we're leaving.

437
00:30:46.920 --> 00:30:49.740
And if you're uncertain about that.

438
00:30:49.799 --> 00:30:51.359
Well, then she blows it to shit as well.

439
00:30:51.779 --> 00:30:54.779
Well, and that's another thing too.

440
00:30:54.839 --> 00:31:04.799
Like, because this version of Star Trek, this 90s version of Star Trek is cheap and because most of the things...

441
00:31:04.859 --> 00:31:06.059
Well, it's probably not cheap.

442
00:31:06.119 --> 00:31:09.059
I mean, the money they poured into the set.

443
00:31:09.119 --> 00:31:10.740
It weren't cheap to start off.

444
00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:11.099
Yeah, yeah.

445
00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:11.940
No, no.

446
00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:19.440
But, but, you know, there's a lot of standing around inexpensively in standing sense going on.

447
00:31:19.500 --> 00:31:32.819
But actually having her set fire to the thing and having him stand by and watch her do it is really interesting and that like he doesn't object.

448
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:34.680
He knows that she's going to do it.

449
00:31:34.980 --> 00:31:37.799
What I love about that is I think that's really good.

450
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:41.160
It's open-ended, and we never find out what happens to him after that.

451
00:31:41.220 --> 00:31:42.180
I wouldn't want to.

452
00:31:43.019 --> 00:32:02.160
No, but it is kind of a problem as if, because part of the solution, part of the way that Kira convinces herself that this is the right thing to do and what she tells him is, I will make sure, you know, he says, if I leave here, I'll die.

453
00:32:02.220 --> 00:32:09.059
And she could have said, no, you stupid asshole, you won't, don't be such a drama queen.

454
00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:09.660
We're going.

455
00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:10.920
Do you know what I mean?

456
00:32:10.980 --> 00:32:13.799
Because that's like that's really the issue here, isn't it?

457
00:32:13.859 --> 00:32:19.259
He'll die if he doesn't have his fucking cave and his roots and his all of that sort of thing.

458
00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:21.779
Like he's just being a dickhead, right?

459
00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:26.220
Um, And she says, no, you won't die.

460
00:32:26.279 --> 00:32:29.460
I'll make sure of it, but of course we never hear of him again.

461
00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:30.420
And so...

462
00:32:30.539 --> 00:32:31.740
Which is kind of, it's a bit remote.

463
00:32:31.740 --> 00:32:35.819
DS Liner's got a good track record of catching up with characters later.

464
00:32:35.880 --> 00:32:44.400
Well, I was just thinking actually about 2nd skin, you know, and where her pretend father comes back in another episode.

465
00:32:44.460 --> 00:32:45.539
Yeah.

466
00:32:45.539 --> 00:32:50.700
Brian Keith actually dies in 1997.

467
00:32:50.940 --> 00:32:54.119
So just 4 years after this.

468
00:32:54.180 --> 00:32:54.779
Wow.

469
00:32:54.779 --> 00:32:55.319
Okay.

470
00:32:55.380 --> 00:33:02.039
And he has, he has lung cancer, but he does die of a gunshot wound.

471
00:33:02.099 --> 00:33:06.299
So he, he, I think he dies by suicide.

472
00:33:06.359 --> 00:33:09.180
I think I knew that because he's sick.

473
00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:10.740
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

474
00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:15.059
But I mean, he's, you know, he's a big deal.

475
00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:16.740
He might have been hard to get back.

476
00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:18.599
And what do you do?

477
00:33:18.660 --> 00:33:19.500
Do you know what I mean?

478
00:33:19.559 --> 00:33:20.700
Like, what do you do?

479
00:33:20.759 --> 00:33:24.059
He comes back and he's, I don't know, started a chain of.

480
00:33:24.180 --> 00:33:29.640
Well, we're in the restaurants that sell that suit. era of bringing back everything these days, aren't we?

481
00:33:29.700 --> 00:33:31.259
Sometimes I think, you know what?

482
00:33:31.319 --> 00:33:34.380
That that appearance that you had was good enough.

483
00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:35.099
Leave it alone.

484
00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:36.539
Yeah, yeah.

485
00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:37.140
Yeah.

486
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:39.299
But I think I think that that's part of the problem.

487
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:45.599
I do think that it's a little bit unclear what's happening and what's going on in Kira's head.

488
00:33:45.660 --> 00:33:49.319
And I think it needs to be clear for this to work 100% of the time.

489
00:33:49.380 --> 00:33:50.579
Yeah, like what's this?

490
00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:52.200
This fucking dickhead here, right?

491
00:33:52.259 --> 00:33:53.460
They're always...

492
00:33:53.460 --> 00:33:54.960
They're always...

493
00:33:55.680 --> 00:34:07.559
We're going to render this entire moon uninhabitable because we can't wait a year for a better power plant to come online.

494
00:34:07.619 --> 00:34:12.659
Like, why not just issue them all, some fucking batteries and tell them to wrap up warmth the winter.

495
00:34:12.719 --> 00:34:19.559
But, you know, and it's going to be, oh, we're going to heat 10s of 1000s of Bajoran homes.

496
00:34:19.619 --> 00:34:22.139
Like, but we're going to destroy.

497
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:25.260
Like that's what's dumb about it, and it's partly that this set.

498
00:34:25.320 --> 00:34:28.500
Partly the problem is that this set looks so lush.

499
00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:35.219
And if it had been, if it had been, if he'd genuinely been scraping out, some kind of subsistence.

500
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:40.260
It doesn't matter if it's lush, but we need a log shot of the planet, make it a bit like the survivors.

501
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:44.460
Do you remember where you've got that beautiful garden surrounded by this horrid desert?

502
00:34:44.760 --> 00:34:46.139
Yeah.

503
00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:48.239
It's like, oh, okay.

504
00:34:48.300 --> 00:34:49.440
So the planet is miserable.

505
00:34:49.500 --> 00:34:52.260
It's just that little area that is looked after quite well.

506
00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:53.219
That's right.

507
00:34:55.440 --> 00:35:02.400
I do like, I do like the, it's not subtle, but I do like, um, the uniform being used.

508
00:35:02.460 --> 00:35:03.599
So she takes off the universe.

509
00:35:03.659 --> 00:35:05.940
Yeah, I'm staying. and then she puts on the uniform.

510
00:35:06.059 --> 00:35:07.139
Okay, you're leaving.

511
00:35:07.260 --> 00:35:10.860
And he says, doesn't he, what's the gun all about?

512
00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:11.760
You didn't have the gun before.

513
00:35:11.820 --> 00:35:15.300
And she goes, oh, it's protocol. if I'm going to force you out of your home.

514
00:35:15.420 --> 00:35:16.079
Come on there.

515
00:35:16.440 --> 00:35:18.360
Yeah, yeah.

516
00:35:19.019 --> 00:35:21.539
Yeah, see, I like that.

517
00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:23.099
I'm doing what has to be done.

518
00:35:23.159 --> 00:35:23.820
I am too.

519
00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:27.239
Um, There's a great series going.

520
00:35:27.300 --> 00:35:28.260
I also, so God.

521
00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:29.880
No, no, no.

522
00:35:29.940 --> 00:35:42.420
I'm not sure I buy the, like what happens at the end as like what happens to lead into the, uh, the ad break here. where, what, he gets shot by one of them.

523
00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:44.699
Oh, it's very strange. isn't it?

524
00:35:44.760 --> 00:35:46.260
It's yeah, yeah.

525
00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:49.920
But like, why are they do they have phases set to kill anyway?

526
00:35:49.980 --> 00:35:50.940
Do you know what I mean?

527
00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:54.599
Like they're going up there to move an old man.

528
00:35:54.659 --> 00:36:04.980
They have to take their guns because we're American scriptwriters and we can't imagine, you know, this being done by people who aren't wielding fucking guns.

529
00:36:04.980 --> 00:36:07.380
Like, why are they have guns at all?

530
00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:08.699
There's no reason for it.

531
00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:10.500
And then why do they have them set to kill?

532
00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:11.639
you know it's ridiculous.

533
00:36:11.699 --> 00:36:26.099
I think the weird thing about this episode is you're right, and you're sort of niggling at the nuts and bolts of the story, but the story is manipulating the characters into the position of just being stuck there together.

534
00:36:26.159 --> 00:36:27.360
And that's what I love.

535
00:36:27.480 --> 00:36:29.699
So I'm kind of like, okay, yeah, I get it.

536
00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:30.780
It doesn't really work.

537
00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:34.139
But the episode works because they're so great.

538
00:36:34.440 --> 00:36:37.440
Well, I think it's the same with duet, isn't it?

539
00:36:37.500 --> 00:36:40.500
Where, like, what's not actually happening?

540
00:36:40.500 --> 00:36:41.760
There's a bit more sense in there.

541
00:36:41.820 --> 00:36:43.800
And the mystery is stupid.

542
00:36:43.860 --> 00:36:47.099
Like the resolution is, you know, like...

543
00:36:47.099 --> 00:36:49.739
Oh, we can't find a picture of this war criminal.

544
00:36:49.739 --> 00:36:51.239
No, it was in charge of a lady.

545
00:36:51.239 --> 00:36:51.900
Like all of that.

546
00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:53.820
Yeah, none of that quite works.

547
00:36:53.880 --> 00:36:55.500
Are you telling me, God, you can't.

548
00:36:55.500 --> 00:36:57.480
They not have a snapshot every day of themselves.

549
00:36:57.539 --> 00:36:58.500
Yeah, with our wips.

550
00:36:58.559 --> 00:36:59.039
Right.

551
00:36:59.039 --> 00:37:03.960
Yeah, so it doesn't quite work.

552
00:37:03.960 --> 00:37:05.940
Yeah, this, like why is he shooting an old man?

553
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:07.320
Like, that's just crazy.

554
00:37:07.380 --> 00:37:08.039
What's he doing?

555
00:37:08.099 --> 00:37:09.239
Like, what?

556
00:37:09.539 --> 00:37:13.139
But then this lease to all the scenes where she's looking after him.

557
00:37:13.500 --> 00:37:15.780
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

558
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:16.800
But like...

559
00:37:16.800 --> 00:37:17.579
Oh, I love...

560
00:37:17.579 --> 00:37:19.260
You don't love Dr. Share coming down.

561
00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:21.659
She's just so dismissive of him, isn't she?

562
00:37:21.719 --> 00:37:22.619
She don't give him a 2nd.

563
00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:30.719
Well, he's, he's off you arrogant, you know, like, he's, also only for contractual reasons. isn't he?

564
00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:39.719
Oh, they do this a couple of times, you know, where they're sort of pretends substate.

565
00:37:39.780 --> 00:37:46.260
Do you remember the bit whereas redax is talking to Cisco and she's going, I'm so sorry.

566
00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:47.639
I can't hear you, Captain.

567
00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:52.139
Look, I just got to get over her tiny.

568
00:37:52.139 --> 00:37:54.480
Her tiny syric loft.

569
00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:55.679
She's so tiny.

570
00:37:55.739 --> 00:37:57.179
He's really good.

571
00:37:57.239 --> 00:37:58.380
These 2 are so sweet.

572
00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:02.639
Like I just, I'm happy to spend time with them, even though this doesn't go anywhere.

573
00:38:02.699 --> 00:38:03.780
You know what's really sad?

574
00:38:03.780 --> 00:38:04.260
So much fun.

575
00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:09.960
I'm not going to talk about Aaron Eisenberg's staff every time he's on screen, you know, when we do one of these.

576
00:38:10.019 --> 00:38:13.800
What's really sad is he's clearly got some talent.

577
00:38:13.860 --> 00:38:18.539
You know, he's a really charismatic actor and when you give him stuff like it's only a paper nude.

578
00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:20.460
You can see what he's got in him.

579
00:38:20.519 --> 00:38:28.500
He didn't get a lot of work after DS9 and I don't know if it's that's a physical thing. you know, that he was a short bloke who looked a certain way.

580
00:38:28.980 --> 00:38:37.500
But what's wonderful about Star Trek is it can bring in, like you were talking in last week's episode about the blind actor who plays the engineer.

581
00:38:37.559 --> 00:38:41.940
They can bring in people and give them these really great acting roles.

582
00:38:42.179 --> 00:38:43.739
Mm.

583
00:38:43.739 --> 00:38:45.360
Yeah.

584
00:38:45.420 --> 00:38:46.920
And it's so weird, isn't it?

585
00:38:46.980 --> 00:38:52.380
Isn't it weird that they took this character that was in one scene in emissary?

586
00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:55.920
And they gave him all this sort of comedy stuff to do.

587
00:38:56.039 --> 00:39:00.420
And then somewhere in the middle of series 3. like, no, we're taking on a real journey.

588
00:39:00.420 --> 00:39:06.960
So he starts off guarding Cisco's office suddenly trying to shake his hand saying, right, I want you to sign me up to Starfleet.

589
00:39:07.019 --> 00:39:07.679
Here's the goals.

590
00:39:08.940 --> 00:39:14.639
And from then on, his character just developed in leaps and bounds, doesn't it?

591
00:39:14.820 --> 00:39:25.920
I think I think it's the genius of this was the decision to basically give every character a bunch of characters that surrounded them.

592
00:39:25.980 --> 00:39:45.119
So all of our people in the opening credits have characters that they go with, you know, so, uh, so, you know, Quark has Rom, Jake has Nog, um, Bashir has Garak, you know, and all of them end up with with people around them.

593
00:39:45.420 --> 00:39:47.099
So by the 7th season.

594
00:39:47.159 --> 00:39:49.980
They've all got one or 2 pairings, haven't they?

595
00:39:50.099 --> 00:39:51.960
That is where every time they're together.

596
00:39:52.019 --> 00:39:53.099
You're like, yeah this is gold.

597
00:39:53.159 --> 00:39:54.300
Yeah.

598
00:39:54.360 --> 00:39:58.380
And so you end up with like 30 characters and no other Star Trek has ever done that.

599
00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:01.980
I mean, you think about who is in Star Trek the Next Generation.

600
00:40:02.039 --> 00:40:02.699
Row.

601
00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:04.739
It's basically it, Mr. Monk.

602
00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:10.079
You have the old, like, Mr. Troy Gowron, but they're sort of 11 episode a year characters.

603
00:40:10.139 --> 00:40:11.280
Yeah.

604
00:40:11.340 --> 00:40:23.159
And even last week, like even last week, we had Mitchell, who was with Ortegas, the woman who was the leader of the Red Guards, the leader of Ahuras.

605
00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:24.480
Oh, yeah.

606
00:40:24.539 --> 00:40:29.579
Ahura's Guards, and she had been at Ops or whatever.

607
00:40:29.639 --> 00:40:35.519
I can never remember what those stations are called, you know, in the opening thing, and she's been in a couple of episodes.

608
00:40:35.579 --> 00:40:42.300
There's someone who sits at Ahura's place when she's not on the bridge, a guy.

609
00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:43.860
I think I can, and he's got a name.

610
00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:47.519
But basically, it's just the characters in the opening credits.

611
00:40:47.519 --> 00:40:49.980
And I always think that's a little bit crap.

612
00:40:50.039 --> 00:40:51.900
And this does a great job.

613
00:40:52.019 --> 00:40:56.219
I think 90s shows, like, I think Voyager tried to do this.

614
00:40:56.280 --> 00:41:00.059
They tried to do their earrings and they just weren't as successful.

615
00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:02.219
There were some, like you had the doctor in seven.

616
00:41:02.219 --> 00:41:05.400
Janeway and Chuba when they thought about it.

617
00:41:05.639 --> 00:41:10.380
And they tried to do it with Harry Kim and Tom Paris, but you...

618
00:41:10.860 --> 00:41:14.159
But I mean, there's basically 8 people on the ship.

619
00:41:14.219 --> 00:41:15.960
Yeah, you know what I mean?

620
00:41:16.019 --> 00:41:17.519
Whereas this is early though.

621
00:41:17.579 --> 00:41:21.599
In series two, they try to bring in all these extra.

622
00:41:21.659 --> 00:41:23.760
And then Jerry Taylor was like, oh, I'm going to kill them all.

623
00:41:23.820 --> 00:41:26.280
Scott and Hogan and yeah, yeah, crazy.

624
00:41:26.340 --> 00:41:29.639
Brad Dureff, our consulting psychopath.

625
00:41:29.699 --> 00:41:35.400
But it does mean there are 2 layers to this story, aren't they, to this series.

626
00:41:35.460 --> 00:41:41.460
It means, you know, you can have a great a really well written episode and it's just great on those terms.

627
00:41:41.880 --> 00:41:48.539
And you've got the carrot stuff or you've got a sort of middling episode and great character stuff.

628
00:41:48.599 --> 00:41:49.559
Yeah.

629
00:41:49.619 --> 00:41:52.320
I mean, you know, Garrett gets his own episodes.

630
00:41:52.380 --> 00:41:56.400
You know, like, it's, uh, that's the best for the rung, I think.

631
00:41:56.579 --> 00:41:58.559
Oh, here we go.

632
00:41:58.739 --> 00:42:01.679
You know, when I was younger.

633
00:42:01.739 --> 00:42:03.659
There was this big ugly tree.

634
00:42:03.719 --> 00:42:05.639
It was a nasty old tree.

635
00:42:07.260 --> 00:42:09.059
I liked it.

636
00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:10.199
You know, it sounds great.

637
00:42:10.320 --> 00:42:12.900
Right, Cage has just given her a look as well.

638
00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:17.099
I know it's such a shit Star Trek speech.

639
00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:20.460
He goes, but you loved it, didn't you?

640
00:42:20.519 --> 00:42:21.480
No I hated it.

641
00:42:21.539 --> 00:42:26.340
Look at him smiling at the at the shitty story.

642
00:42:27.300 --> 00:42:32.039
I've acted in some of the finest productions that America has brought out.

643
00:42:32.099 --> 00:42:34.079
And family affairs.

644
00:42:34.860 --> 00:42:37.739
And now I'm listening to this shit.

645
00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:42.059
But you're right.

646
00:42:42.119 --> 00:42:47.280
Again, like his backstory, you know, his absurd backstory that we're supposed to laugh at.

647
00:42:47.340 --> 00:42:48.119
Yeah, yeah.

648
00:42:48.119 --> 00:42:54.119
Suddenly, I don't think anyone expected him to then start churning out a tree story as soon as Cisco appears.

649
00:42:54.239 --> 00:42:57.780
Well, that is so funny, tell him the tree story.

650
00:42:57.840 --> 00:42:58.440
That's great.

651
00:43:00.179 --> 00:43:02.159
That's brilliant.

652
00:43:02.219 --> 00:43:03.900
That saves that stupid.

653
00:43:04.320 --> 00:43:06.960
Peter Allen Fields knows what's not working.

654
00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:10.199
Yeah, it's making fun of it.

655
00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:12.360
So...

656
00:43:12.360 --> 00:43:14.579
Yeah.

657
00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:27.719
Yeah, and so this becomes, so does she kick him out, because she is worried about losing her job?

658
00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:30.780
I don't think so.

659
00:43:30.840 --> 00:43:33.179
I know, I never got that.

660
00:43:33.239 --> 00:43:34.440
Well, kick, kick.

661
00:43:34.440 --> 00:43:51.420
She agrees to destroy, to take Mullerbok. forcibly from here, which is the only choice that she's given after Cisco speaks to her and says, I'm worried about your career.

662
00:43:52.559 --> 00:43:54.420
Maybe then.

663
00:43:54.480 --> 00:44:01.980
And in that case, so the name progress, the word progress has got to be sort of ironic.

664
00:44:02.039 --> 00:44:02.699
Yeah?

665
00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:05.039
Like he's standing in the way of progress.

666
00:44:05.099 --> 00:44:09.840
They have to destroy a whole planet to heat some homes in winter.

667
00:44:09.900 --> 00:44:15.840
I don't think he's above using irony and this whole duet is very ironic, isn't it?

668
00:44:15.900 --> 00:44:17.340
Yeah, yeah.

669
00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:19.800
They are dancing in a very acidic way.

670
00:44:19.860 --> 00:44:20.400
Yeah.

671
00:44:20.460 --> 00:44:21.599
That's right.

672
00:44:21.659 --> 00:44:26.400
So progress is a good title, but does she do the wrong thing?

673
00:44:26.460 --> 00:44:30.599
Like, I don't know how I'm meant to feel about her decision.

674
00:44:30.659 --> 00:44:32.159
You know, you don't like that.

675
00:44:32.219 --> 00:44:34.139
I think you like a sort of definitive.

676
00:44:34.260 --> 00:44:36.780
No, no, I no, I do like that.

677
00:44:36.840 --> 00:44:42.900
There is something about that that I do like, but I wonder...

678
00:44:42.900 --> 00:44:45.539
I wish I had a clearer idea. doesn't muddy the water enough.

679
00:44:45.599 --> 00:44:47.280
I don't know, especially not in the 90s.

680
00:44:47.340 --> 00:44:56.820
And it's like at the end of Cubic's where Janeway marches him off to be murdered and it never condemns her for that action, what he does, but the crew doesn't.

681
00:44:56.880 --> 00:44:59.579
But you're left with that sort of uncomfortable.

682
00:44:59.639 --> 00:45:01.500
She just commit murder.

683
00:45:01.559 --> 00:45:05.880
Like, you know, I like I like that, that sort of unease.

684
00:45:06.539 --> 00:45:15.119
Yeah, yeah, here though, because I don't know, I just don't know why she does it.

685
00:45:15.179 --> 00:45:25.739
And I wish I wish there was something more about Mullabok or something that contributed to it. like if it was clearer or something, you know.

686
00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:37.980
Yeah, no, but if it was clear that Mullerbach was just an asshole. you know, who was like the rich people from Mixedus too, who was just, do you know what I mean?

687
00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:49.860
Like, and she just goes, yeah, look, it's, like I said before, if she just grabbed him and says, stop being such a fucking drama queen, everyone else is doing this, a lot of people are going to benefit.

688
00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:51.059
You're not going to die.

689
00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:52.559
Just leave.

690
00:45:52.619 --> 00:45:54.119
I'm taking you with me.

691
00:45:54.179 --> 00:45:55.380
You know.

692
00:45:55.440 --> 00:46:00.360
None a visitor here where she's sort of blinking back the tears and says it's horrible.

693
00:46:00.420 --> 00:46:01.920
What I've become is horrible.

694
00:46:02.280 --> 00:46:04.739
I think she's great.

695
00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:06.840
Yeah, yeah.

696
00:46:06.900 --> 00:46:10.500
I just I just don't quite get what I'm supposed to think.

697
00:46:10.619 --> 00:46:15.420
And I think I think it should be doing that.

698
00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:17.880
Like I said, I don't mind ambiguity.

699
00:46:17.940 --> 00:46:21.780
I don't mind any of those sorts of things, but I just think that what this, what's this story about?

700
00:46:21.840 --> 00:46:24.059
It's about Kira making this decision.

701
00:46:24.119 --> 00:46:26.039
Why does she make that decision?

702
00:46:26.099 --> 00:46:26.940
I think we need to know.

703
00:46:27.420 --> 00:46:31.800
This sequence here as well, where he says, I like you.

704
00:46:31.860 --> 00:46:32.699
You're my friend.

705
00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:34.320
I worried about you.

706
00:46:34.380 --> 00:46:36.179
You remember where they started an emissary?

707
00:46:36.239 --> 00:46:37.739
You know, I suppose you won the office.

708
00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:39.659
You know, it was very competitive.

709
00:46:39.719 --> 00:46:44.099
I think how their relationship develops in the 1st 3 or 4 seasons.

710
00:46:44.159 --> 00:46:48.659
It's really, it's quite subtle, but it's really beautifully explored.

711
00:46:48.780 --> 00:46:54.360
Do you remember when we get to um, Starship Down, where Cisco is injured?

712
00:46:54.420 --> 00:46:58.500
and she has to try and save him and she he's effectively like God, isn't he?

713
00:46:58.559 --> 00:47:00.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

714
00:47:00.300 --> 00:47:00.960
You know.

715
00:47:01.500 --> 00:47:06.659
I, I, so maybe that's, that's maybe progress is their relationship as well.

716
00:47:06.840 --> 00:47:09.059
Oh yeah, no, I think so.

717
00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:11.699
I think that it does refer to their relationship too.

718
00:47:11.760 --> 00:47:12.840
So do you know what I mean?

719
00:47:12.900 --> 00:47:14.340
I just don't know how to feel.

720
00:47:14.340 --> 00:47:20.880
I adored this scene where it's like, she's sort of sort of fussing over him and he goes, you got to talk all night.

721
00:47:20.940 --> 00:47:22.920
And then and then she goes, fine.

722
00:47:22.980 --> 00:47:23.820
He goes, where you going?

723
00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:24.719
I'm going back to sleep.

724
00:47:24.780 --> 00:47:25.920
Well, pull the chair over here.

725
00:47:25.980 --> 00:47:26.280
Come on.

726
00:47:26.340 --> 00:47:27.900
Yeah, I knew my nurse.

727
00:47:28.019 --> 00:47:28.980
You're supposed to be my nurse.

728
00:47:29.039 --> 00:47:30.059
This reminds me of that.

729
00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:45.239
So I used to volunteer for age concern and I looked after for a year an old guy and boy, what's the most miserable curmudgeonly old guy you've ever met in your life, you know, if he could read something negative in something, he'd find it.

730
00:47:45.300 --> 00:47:47.159
Oh, I loved him to pieces.

731
00:47:47.219 --> 00:47:49.320
He used to open the door and say, what do you want?

732
00:47:50.400 --> 00:47:53.099
It reminds me so much this guy.

733
00:47:53.699 --> 00:48:02.280
I think, you know, when you become, you know, sort of 70 odd, you've got every right, you know, to be horrible to everybody else.

734
00:48:02.460 --> 00:48:05.039
Yeah, I think that's probably fair.

735
00:48:05.340 --> 00:48:06.840
Yeah.

736
00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:08.219
Hmm.

737
00:48:08.219 --> 00:48:11.400
So...

738
00:48:11.400 --> 00:48:12.599
Is this a bit thinking now?

739
00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:16.860
is a bit like the relationship with her father in 2nd skin, isn't it?

740
00:48:16.980 --> 00:48:21.239
Like when he comes back, it's they're very sort of close like this.

741
00:48:21.300 --> 00:48:25.019
And maybe if the writing isn't selling it.

742
00:48:25.079 --> 00:48:27.900
I think the acting is absolutely...

743
00:48:28.019 --> 00:48:28.619
Yes, absolutely.

744
00:48:28.679 --> 00:48:30.239
Yeah, I think so too.

745
00:48:30.659 --> 00:48:32.760
I was just really involved.

746
00:48:32.820 --> 00:48:33.840
Really involved.

747
00:48:33.900 --> 00:48:38.820
I remember and from my 1st watch of this, I remember watching the 1st season of DS9.

748
00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:45.119
I loved mystery to pieces and then there was all those sort of cod TNG ripoffs, like cueless and things like that.

749
00:48:45.179 --> 00:48:48.119
And then it got to stuff like vortex and this.

750
00:48:48.119 --> 00:48:50.519
And I'm like, ooh, this is really new.

751
00:48:50.519 --> 00:49:00.179
Like, Yeah, well, I reckon I've mentioned progress a bunch of times on untitled Star Trek Project because it always struck me as a very good episode.

752
00:49:00.239 --> 00:49:04.380
And I think the reason it's good is these two.

753
00:49:04.380 --> 00:49:07.559
You'd be hard pressed to find an episode quieter than this.

754
00:49:08.460 --> 00:49:14.280
In terms of like plot, you know, or jeopardy or anything like that.

755
00:49:14.340 --> 00:49:14.880
Yeah.

756
00:49:14.880 --> 00:49:15.599
Yeah.

757
00:49:15.659 --> 00:49:16.199
Yeah.

758
00:49:16.260 --> 00:49:19.559
And, you know, you could you could put this on the stage.

759
00:49:19.619 --> 00:49:22.320
Like, it doesn't need to be television this, does it?

760
00:49:22.380 --> 00:49:24.420
No, well, no.

761
00:49:27.300 --> 00:49:32.039
Speaking of the stage, at the stage.

762
00:49:32.099 --> 00:49:49.619
Here's another very, you know, clearly enunciated conversation. designed to be overheard by to lead. things like that and it's things like, you know, when they put 2 people both looking at the camera having a conversation.

763
00:49:49.679 --> 00:49:50.219
Yeah.

764
00:49:50.219 --> 00:49:53.039
It's when you're like, oh, we're definitely in the 90s here.

765
00:49:56.400 --> 00:49:59.519
I do love the thing about dirt.

766
00:49:59.579 --> 00:50:01.079
I think that's really great.

767
00:50:01.139 --> 00:50:12.719
And it seems, is it a, is it a Ferengi thing or is it just, no, a Ferengi dismissive of real estate is a potentially lucrative investment, generally?

768
00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:15.840
Gator has a, is a gator?

769
00:50:16.800 --> 00:50:18.599
What's his cousin?

770
00:50:18.599 --> 00:50:19.320
Who is the moon?

771
00:50:19.380 --> 00:50:20.460
Oh, cousin Gala, yeah.

772
00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:21.840
He's got his old moon, yeah.

773
00:50:21.900 --> 00:50:24.000
Yeah, that's real estate.

774
00:50:24.059 --> 00:50:24.599
That's dirt.

775
00:50:24.659 --> 00:50:29.519
Odo goes, you know, unlike Gala, you know, although I've met Frankie that are more wealthy.

776
00:50:29.579 --> 00:50:32.400
I've never met any as devious as you, Quark.

777
00:50:32.460 --> 00:50:33.239
Oh, no.

778
00:50:33.300 --> 00:50:39.840
That means so much to me See, there's another parent.

779
00:50:39.900 --> 00:50:43.800
Oh, look at this shot zooming in on Jake and Dog.

780
00:50:44.519 --> 00:50:46.079
You know what?

781
00:50:46.139 --> 00:50:55.320
They all just sort of, they paid us off in in the cards. because he gets the latinum in this and then at the beginning I'm in the cars, it's like, no.

782
00:50:55.380 --> 00:50:57.480
You surely you've got some money.

783
00:50:57.539 --> 00:51:01.079
It goes, yeah, yeah, I've got that money. got that money. from bars.

784
00:51:01.139 --> 00:51:02.639
And he goes, I've got about 5 bars.

785
00:51:02.699 --> 00:51:06.420
It's under my bed and he's like, 0 nog, you don't really keep it under your bed, do you?

786
00:51:08.280 --> 00:51:09.719
Really?

787
00:51:09.780 --> 00:51:11.579
So that's the 5 bars.

788
00:51:11.579 --> 00:51:14.340
Like, he has slept with the 5 bars in that episode.

789
00:51:14.400 --> 00:51:14.699
Yeah.

790
00:51:14.760 --> 00:51:16.920
I hope so. would be awesome.

791
00:51:16.980 --> 00:51:21.059
That is, that's one of the joys of having a seven-year run, isn't it?

792
00:51:21.119 --> 00:51:22.679
that you can play off things like that.

793
00:51:22.860 --> 00:51:24.239
Yeah.

794
00:51:24.300 --> 00:51:37.860
I never forget there's, um, you know, after rejoined, there's, um, an episode in series 5 series 6 where they go, oh, yeah, Lenara Calm's been working on, you know, creating wormhouse so we can get it.

795
00:51:37.920 --> 00:51:39.360
So they do that quite a lot.

796
00:51:39.420 --> 00:51:40.139
I like that.

797
00:51:40.199 --> 00:51:41.219
Little streaks.

798
00:51:42.239 --> 00:51:47.579
Yeah, I think Quark's reaction here is a little bit undercooked as well.

799
00:51:47.639 --> 00:51:49.079
I don't know what's happening.

800
00:51:49.139 --> 00:51:51.300
That's unusual for Robin Sherman, yeah.

801
00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:52.619
Yeah, yeah.

802
00:51:52.679 --> 00:51:54.780
Like, uh...

803
00:51:54.780 --> 00:51:56.099
Okay, so what, no way.

804
00:51:56.219 --> 00:51:58.440
No, look, he must. no, no, no.

805
00:51:58.500 --> 00:51:59.460
Like he gives...

806
00:51:59.519 --> 00:52:05.219
Oh yeah, no, he gets the latinum and then he gets the, like, why doesn't, that just makes no sense.

807
00:52:05.280 --> 00:52:06.719
I don't I don't know.

808
00:52:06.780 --> 00:52:08.039
He just wants Latinum, right?

809
00:52:08.099 --> 00:52:08.460
Yeah.

810
00:52:08.639 --> 00:52:13.679
Why doesn't he think he'll get latinum from the government, from the Bajoran government?

811
00:52:13.739 --> 00:52:16.559
Well, yeah, this could get a lot more of the sunrises.

812
00:52:16.619 --> 00:52:18.000
Oh yeah, that's really nice.

813
00:52:18.000 --> 00:52:18.719
The sunrises.

814
00:52:18.780 --> 00:52:20.099
I look at this.

815
00:52:20.159 --> 00:52:22.500
I mean, we haven't really talked about the interior set.

816
00:52:22.559 --> 00:52:27.000
I think that's really nice there. you know, and it's go on.

817
00:52:27.059 --> 00:52:31.860
I wish it was a house rather than just redressed standard cave set one.

818
00:52:34.380 --> 00:52:39.059
I like the fact the window looks like a Bajoran badge. combat.

819
00:52:39.119 --> 00:52:39.960
Yeah, I do too.

820
00:52:40.079 --> 00:52:43.199
Like, and the round door and stuff as well.

821
00:52:43.260 --> 00:52:47.760
Like the, like the, they, which is why, you know what?

822
00:52:47.760 --> 00:52:52.199
It just, it doesn't look like stock colony set number 58, though, which I like.

823
00:52:52.739 --> 00:53:00.420
Yeah, imagine if they had just gone to a house in the country like they do in Nepenthe, you know, like that might have been better.

824
00:53:00.480 --> 00:53:02.340
Oh, that's about women doing that.

825
00:53:02.340 --> 00:53:04.199
Oh, the suggestion, you know, going out on location.

826
00:53:04.260 --> 00:53:05.400
Yeah, going outside.

827
00:53:07.019 --> 00:53:09.539
It always baffles me as well.

828
00:53:09.599 --> 00:53:11.579
Sometimes when they choose episodes to go outside.

829
00:53:11.639 --> 00:53:17.400
Do you remember Times Orphan, that one where Molly O'Brien falls down, they go to this beautiful park to film it.

830
00:53:17.460 --> 00:53:19.800
I'm like, for that episode?

831
00:53:22.920 --> 00:53:26.219
Yeah, I just like I like these bricks.

832
00:53:26.280 --> 00:53:29.639
I really like the bricks that they're putting on the thing.

833
00:53:30.059 --> 00:53:32.099
Yeah, it's like, so what?

834
00:53:32.159 --> 00:53:33.119
I'm gonna go back on what I said.

835
00:53:33.179 --> 00:53:34.440
They're so good together.

836
00:53:34.500 --> 00:53:36.300
It is almost a shame we didn't get a bit more of them.

837
00:53:36.719 --> 00:53:41.340
I really actually, and look, like I just don't know how to read this.

838
00:53:41.400 --> 00:53:43.739
He kind of goes yes, you're right there.

839
00:53:43.800 --> 00:53:46.440
Like he, she says last one.

840
00:53:46.500 --> 00:53:59.159
He knows what she means and he kind of accepts that that's what she means and um, he puts the brick there and, Then what happens?

841
00:53:59.219 --> 00:54:00.239
Do you know what I mean?

842
00:54:00.300 --> 00:54:04.260
Like, yeah, then, yeah, like...

843
00:54:04.260 --> 00:54:05.699
But then he does act shock, doesn't he?

844
00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:09.840
Because he says, what the hell are you doing when she...

845
00:54:09.900 --> 00:54:10.920
But he doesn't overact.

846
00:54:10.980 --> 00:54:11.940
He doesn't overreact.

847
00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:21.659
But what I love is when she starts setting fire to the house, you know, this was Voyager, we'd have someone, you know, running, screaming, going, stop, you know, my house, you know, it would all be very hysterical.

848
00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:24.480
His muted reaction is...

849
00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:25.860
I like that a lot.

850
00:54:25.920 --> 00:54:27.179
I really like it.

851
00:54:27.239 --> 00:54:34.440
And I just like the way that she lights bits of it and does it slowly and then just throws the torch into the house and then walks away.

852
00:54:34.500 --> 00:54:36.780
I think all of that stuff is great.

853
00:54:37.260 --> 00:54:41.760
I think this is where it's sort of scenes like this, moments like this.

854
00:54:41.820 --> 00:54:47.099
This is where if you cast brilliant actors in your ensemble.

855
00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:49.739
You know, you get moments like this.

856
00:54:50.880 --> 00:54:55.019
I can only imagine Robert Duncan McNeil acting out this soon.

857
00:54:58.139 --> 00:55:01.320
Yeah, that's it.

858
00:55:01.380 --> 00:55:02.400
Yeah.

859
00:55:02.460 --> 00:55:04.500
And and that's it too.

860
00:55:04.559 --> 00:55:10.619
Like, she, he says to her, you don't want to do this and she doesn't disagree with him.

861
00:55:10.679 --> 00:55:12.059
And clearly she doesn't.

862
00:55:12.119 --> 00:55:17.820
You know, that's why she was kind of holding back tears with Cisco.

863
00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:20.340
But once she recasted as saving his life.

864
00:55:20.400 --> 00:55:27.360
He's a stupid old man who will just make a point by staying here and letting himself get killed.

865
00:55:27.420 --> 00:55:40.320
And the only thing that she can do to stop that from happening is this, and it's a real kind of act of violence that's kind of nicely underplayed, and just such an unusually physical thing for Star Trek.

866
00:55:40.380 --> 00:55:42.420
But noisy trek as well. sets.

867
00:55:42.480 --> 00:55:43.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

868
00:55:43.619 --> 00:55:44.760
I can't believe it.

869
00:55:44.760 --> 00:55:47.519
No, our visitors set that entire time. right.

870
00:55:47.579 --> 00:55:49.079
It's really good.

871
00:55:49.079 --> 00:55:52.380
The feathers are there with the fire extinguishers like, car, come on.

872
00:55:52.440 --> 00:55:53.340
We've gotta get it out.

873
00:55:54.780 --> 00:55:58.860
And yeah, I don't know.

874
00:55:58.920 --> 00:56:18.719
So she's saving his life and it is also this thing where it's kind of like she has to accept that she's a grown-up with grown-up authority, that thing about parenthood that I said earlier, that, that she, he can have his tantrum or whatever, but she has to put a stop to it in order to, in order to make sure he survives.

875
00:56:18.780 --> 00:56:24.239
It's not just, um, it's not just about making sure that, look at the fine.

876
00:56:24.300 --> 00:56:27.119
I'm not sure Studio 6 is going to survive this, you know?

877
00:56:27.179 --> 00:56:29.099
really going for it.

878
00:56:29.519 --> 00:56:32.639
Oh, and that's the final shot, is it?

879
00:56:32.699 --> 00:56:33.659
fade out on her face.

880
00:56:33.719 --> 00:56:35.460
Yeah, let's...

881
00:56:35.519 --> 00:56:37.079
Yeah, yeah.

882
00:56:37.139 --> 00:56:49.679
It must be really interesting for me to write this recording, is you sort of trying to, um, determine where the characters are at and kind of not reaching any solid conclusions.

883
00:56:49.980 --> 00:56:51.119
I don't think that's a terrible thing.

884
00:56:51.179 --> 00:56:54.179
I think maybe it could have been a bit clearer in places.

885
00:56:54.239 --> 00:57:02.280
Yeah, I think I think that if it's this decision that she makes, I think we need to know why she makes that decision.

886
00:57:02.340 --> 00:57:10.079
And either the episode has just said no, we'll leave people space to work that out for themselves, okay.

887
00:57:10.139 --> 00:57:12.840
But I would, I don't know.

888
00:57:12.900 --> 00:57:13.440
I don't know.

889
00:57:13.500 --> 00:57:19.739
Like Peter Allensfield's next script, you wear comes to a definitive conclusion in its last scene.

890
00:57:19.800 --> 00:57:21.300
He's a Cardassian.

891
00:57:21.360 --> 00:57:23.639
Who cares that, yeah, that's reason enough to kill him.

892
00:57:23.699 --> 00:57:25.139
She says, no, it's not.

893
00:57:25.199 --> 00:57:26.400
And then we pull away.

894
00:57:26.460 --> 00:57:27.960
Stupid ending.

895
00:57:28.019 --> 00:57:29.099
I love that ending.

896
00:57:29.159 --> 00:57:32.340
Well, he just gets killed by some rando.

897
00:57:32.400 --> 00:57:35.639
You know, that shit... you comfort you wear, all right?

898
00:57:35.699 --> 00:57:36.960
I love you.

899
00:57:37.019 --> 00:57:40.500
I really like that episode, but that's terrible at ending.

900
00:57:40.559 --> 00:57:47.820
What I will say about progress is you and I told off mic about TNG episodes that did similar things.

901
00:57:47.820 --> 00:57:50.099
So you've got Journeys End in series 7.

902
00:57:50.099 --> 00:58:00.000
And you've got an episode, I think it's in series 3 quite early where data goes to a colony and he has to try and get them all off there and he's like blowing up an aqueduct.

903
00:58:00.059 --> 00:58:05.699
And it's also functional and it's also sort of heartless.

904
00:58:05.760 --> 00:58:09.539
Journey's End is a very awkward episode to watch.

905
00:58:09.599 --> 00:58:12.179
I mean, it's trying to move native Americans.

906
00:58:12.239 --> 00:58:13.260
Can you imagine?

907
00:58:13.320 --> 00:58:16.679
It's so it's so icky, the representation.

908
00:58:16.739 --> 00:58:19.139
I mean, puts Picard in the middle of that decision.

909
00:58:19.199 --> 00:58:20.159
Do you know what I mean?

910
00:58:20.219 --> 00:58:22.139
Like, and that decision plays out.

911
00:58:22.199 --> 00:58:31.199
It's like I have my orders, but my ancestor did this, and in fact, all of us who are European have ancestors that did this.

912
00:58:31.260 --> 00:58:36.239
I get it by...

913
00:58:36.239 --> 00:58:40.679
And yeah, Patrick Stewart's going for it, but it's all a bit...

914
00:58:40.739 --> 00:58:43.139
But there's no warmth to any of it.

915
00:58:43.199 --> 00:58:45.719
There's no there's no sort of character to any of it.

916
00:58:45.780 --> 00:58:47.219
I think this is that done.

917
00:58:47.280 --> 00:58:49.380
That idea, just strip back.

918
00:58:49.500 --> 00:58:54.239
Yeah. with great characters in there. and that's what works about this.

919
00:58:54.300 --> 00:59:02.519
I think I think DS9, especially in its 1st year, sort of looked at TNG, so right, how can we do those types of stories?

920
00:59:02.579 --> 00:59:05.340
Like, look at emissary, the very 1st scene of emissary.

921
00:59:05.460 --> 00:59:25.440
We've seen 100 scenes of, you know, ships blowing up and and debris, you know, rocks falling out of consoles, but we've never seen something as up close as a man rushing to try and save his wife during all of that and failing and then seeing his reaction as they're pulling away from. you know so it gives that kind of personal touch to all of that stuff that we've seen.

922
00:59:25.500 --> 00:59:28.019
That's a huge strength of DS9.

923
00:59:28.079 --> 00:59:29.099
Yeah, that's true.

924
00:59:29.159 --> 00:59:33.719
And I think, dude, this is like a version of Deep Space 9 that we don't end up going with.

925
00:59:33.780 --> 00:59:43.380
But I kind of like this version, even though I don't think it's a massive success and it is nice to watch the show develop from this into something else.

926
00:59:43.440 --> 00:59:58.980
And so we have 2 plots which are both kind of a showcase for the regulars involved in them and they're fun and, you know, interesting and stuff and you get some proper acting for Kira.

927
00:59:59.039 --> 01:00:12.300
You know, I just think it's a terrifically fun piece of work and there are things to criticise as there always are, but I would be lying if I said that I didn't enjoy watching this because I really, really did.

928
01:00:15.360 --> 01:00:16.320
Yeah.

929
01:00:37.380 --> 01:00:58.619
So, it's the end of the episode, and it's time for us to choose what we are going to be talking about next time, and it's my turn to press the button, so I am on untitled Star Trek project.com slash randomiser, and I've picked 2 series of Star Trek, which we're going to select from randomly.

930
01:00:58.739 --> 01:01:03.119
I was about to say how random, but go on, which 2 series have you chosen?

931
01:01:03.179 --> 01:01:15.059
Well, um, we've just spent a lot of time in Kurtzman Trek just in real life watching, uh, you know, 10 weeks of Picard series 3.

932
01:01:15.360 --> 01:01:19.139
I watched all of Lower Decks through, you know.

933
01:01:19.199 --> 01:01:20.099
Yeah, yeah.

934
01:01:20.159 --> 01:01:22.079
Yeah, so I've done a lot of cursmen lately.

935
01:01:22.139 --> 01:01:22.679
Yeah, yeah.

936
01:01:22.739 --> 01:01:25.380
So I think we're going to stay on 90s track.

937
01:01:25.440 --> 01:01:34.320
But we're going to choose the 2 most Star Trekie entries in the Kurtzman Trek cannon.

938
01:01:34.380 --> 01:01:36.599
So that's next generation and Voyager.

939
01:01:36.840 --> 01:01:38.219
Okay.

940
01:01:38.280 --> 01:01:38.820
Okay.

941
01:01:38.880 --> 01:01:41.340
And we have done a lot of DS9 later.

942
01:01:41.400 --> 01:01:41.820
We have.

943
01:01:41.880 --> 01:01:42.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

944
01:01:42.780 --> 01:01:43.860
It's always good though.

945
01:01:43.920 --> 01:01:45.659
Okay, let's go.

946
01:01:46.920 --> 01:01:51.239
Your random Star Trek Voyager episode is counterpoint.

947
01:01:51.300 --> 01:01:53.820
Oh, buck a wrap.

948
01:01:53.880 --> 01:01:55.500
We already did that in episode 34.

949
01:01:55.679 --> 01:02:00.840
Which we've, you know, sort of come to the conclusion might be one of the strongest episodes.

950
01:02:00.900 --> 01:02:01.380
Yeah.

951
01:02:01.440 --> 01:02:07.619
I do use the randomiser to secretly push people towards listening to the podcast.

952
01:02:07.679 --> 01:02:16.320
So if it's one we've done, it will say, it says at the end here, we cover this episode on Untitled Star Trek Project, episode 34 and a link.

953
01:02:16.380 --> 01:02:17.820
Oh, well, you're a genius.

954
01:02:17.880 --> 01:02:19.199
Always marketing.

955
01:02:19.260 --> 01:02:21.239
Absolutely. always be marketing.

956
01:02:22.800 --> 01:02:24.840
Ooh.

957
01:02:25.320 --> 01:02:28.380
So this is a two-parter.

958
01:02:28.440 --> 01:02:33.239
It's one episode of a two-parter, and I think we're going to want to do this one.

959
01:02:33.300 --> 01:02:36.840
It's Scorpion part 2, I've rolled.

960
01:02:38.219 --> 01:02:39.599
Fucker me.

961
01:02:39.659 --> 01:02:43.500
I was just talking about counterpoint being the best of Voyager.

962
01:02:43.559 --> 01:02:47.099
This might be the best, best point in Voyagers run.

963
01:02:47.159 --> 01:02:48.059
Yeah, yeah.

964
01:02:48.179 --> 01:02:58.260
And, you know, we spent 10 weeks with seven, seeing where that character went and where she ended up and just loving how superb she is.

965
01:02:58.320 --> 01:03:01.320
And so this is her starting point.

966
01:03:01.380 --> 01:03:02.280
What do you reckon?

967
01:03:02.340 --> 01:03:05.760
I think it's one of the best realised Voyager episodes as well.

968
01:03:05.820 --> 01:03:07.139
They put some money into this one.

969
01:03:07.139 --> 01:03:08.280
It looks terrific.

970
01:03:08.340 --> 01:03:11.519
Do you know, someone said on Twitter recently, the wonderful Jason Thomson.

971
01:03:11.579 --> 01:03:19.320
He said 7's arc is, because her 1st line in Scorpion is, I speak for the Borg.

972
01:03:19.380 --> 01:03:20.099
Wow.

973
01:03:20.159 --> 01:03:27.480
And at the end of Picard, she speaks for the Federation, a flagship of the Federation, and that's her run.

974
01:03:27.539 --> 01:03:29.639
That's a terrific run as well.

975
01:03:29.699 --> 01:03:30.960
Oh, we got to do that.

976
01:03:31.019 --> 01:03:31.920
I think we do.

977
01:03:40.980 --> 01:03:45.360
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley.

978
01:03:45.420 --> 01:03:51.599
We're online at untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find links to our Twitter, Mastodon, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

979
01:03:51.719 --> 01:03:56.820
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was composed by Cameron Lam.

980
01:03:56.880 --> 01:04:02.159
This episode was recorded on the 25th of April 2023 and released on the 5th of May.

981
01:04:02.219 --> 01:04:07.800
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Voyager, Scorpion and Scorpion part two.

982
01:04:23.159 --> 01:04:25.139
Yeah, I think we do.

983
01:04:25.199 --> 01:04:29.099
And plus Harry Kim is mutilated and tortured horribly.

984
01:04:29.159 --> 01:04:30.000
Oh, cool.

985
01:04:30.059 --> 01:04:30.900
Excellent.

986
01:04:30.960 --> 01:04:32.639
Which is always fun.

987
01:04:32.639 --> 01:04:33.599
Doesn't get a promotion.

988
01:04:33.659 --> 01:04:36.659
Yeah, well, I mean, this is their best of both worlds, isn't it?

989
01:04:36.719 --> 01:04:37.980
It's the end of series three.

990
01:04:38.039 --> 01:04:38.340
Yeah.

991
01:04:38.400 --> 01:04:41.219
And they've got a cast change that they're going to do.

992
01:04:41.280 --> 01:04:44.880
And they're going to make this as big as possible.

993
01:04:44.940 --> 01:04:47.940
And I guess they've always been heading towards the Borg.

994
01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:50.159
At some point, we knew that they would be coming.

995
01:04:50.219 --> 01:04:54.059
Oh my god, it's got species 90210 as well.

996
01:04:54.119 --> 01:04:54.719
What are they?

997
01:04:54.780 --> 01:04:55.860
8472.

998
01:04:55.980 --> 01:04:57.239
8472.

999
01:04:57.360 --> 01:05:01.619
Which started off really well. although the CGI is a bit ropey. 80s bit, right?

1000
01:05:01.619 --> 01:05:03.239
90s CGIs.

1001
01:05:03.539 --> 01:05:08.219
There's a weird comparison with Best of Both Wells because and watch this with this in mind.

1002
01:05:08.280 --> 01:05:14.219
I think the best of both worlds part one is better than Scorpion part one.

1003
01:05:14.280 --> 01:05:19.860
Yeah, but I think that Scorpion part 2 is way better than the best of both worlds part two.

1004
01:05:19.920 --> 01:05:22.619
Because you've suddenly got you've suddenly got Jerry Ryan.

1005
01:05:22.679 --> 01:05:23.639
Yeah.

1006
01:05:23.699 --> 01:05:28.079
And I just don't think they quite knew where to go after that cliffhanger in the best of both worlds, you know.

1007
01:05:28.139 --> 01:05:29.340
Were they clearly?

1008
01:05:29.340 --> 01:05:29.940
It's still great.

1009
01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:30.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1010
01:05:30.780 --> 01:05:38.099
It's still great, but it's the very rare thing of a 2nd part of a 2 parter being the more impressive.

1011
01:05:38.159 --> 01:05:38.880
Wow.

1012
01:05:39.000 --> 01:05:40.559
Well, that's going to be great.

1013
01:05:40.619 --> 01:05:41.219
Yeah.

1014
01:05:41.460 --> 01:05:42.900
Great.

1015
01:05:42.960 --> 01:05:44.340
Fire up Netflix now.

1016
01:05:44.400 --> 01:05:44.940
Okay.

1017
01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:46.019
Excellent.