WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 21:30:03

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, last week, it was your choice.

3
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So was it your choice or my choice?

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I can't remember now.

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That's right.

6
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I wanted to choose a middle of the road episode of Star Trek.

7
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That's right.

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Just a normal one.

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We done some big tent pole episodes and it was time to sort of

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plumb the depths of 90s Star Trek mediocrity.

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And I think we actually, mission accomplished with this one.

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This is Darkling, which is series 3 episode about 18.

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It's towards the end of the season.

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And it's very simply, you know, the doctor does Jekyll and Hyde

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essentially.

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Yeah, I've got a feeling because I've said to you a few times on

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top of Star Trek Project that I consider season 3 of Star Trek

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Voyager to be one of the worst seasons ever.

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I think if you watch this through, actually, you'd be far kinder

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on this season, it's all kind of light, disposable, fairly amiable

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episodes with a few laughs and, you know, like an emphasis on the

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ensemble and a lot of hanging around and not doing a lot.

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Can I just say to you, right?

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Because on my blog.coho reviews, I wrote reviews of every single

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90s trek episode and I got to this point in season three, right?

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And you had darkling and then rise and then favourite sun back to

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back and I termed it the trilogy of terror. 3 duds back to back.

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And there's only one other time when that happens.

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I also called that the trilogy of terror.

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And that's in season 5 when you have, 0 God, it's course oblivion

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the fight and there's another one.

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I can't remember.

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It's another Harry Kim one.

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The disease.

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That's it.

36
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Oh, God.

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That's the 2nd trilogy of terror.

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And it's very rare because Nighty Shrek can be inconsistent.

39
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Yeah, but it's rare for them to knock out 3 terrible episodes on

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the trot.

41
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I know you're going to be a little kinder on this than me.

42
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I think this is pretty, pretty terrible.

43
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Well, I think it's the issue of low expectations probably.

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It's probably the same reason.

45
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You cannot keep using that excuse.

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Every time we watch Star Trek Voyager, right?

47
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Well, I actually think that the doctor does an experiment on

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himself that turns him into Jekyll and Hyde is a bad idea.

49
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I don't think it's obviously a bad idea.

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It's, you know, you're giving the job of one of the best actors in

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the cast to do that and you get him to have fun and do something

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else.

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And by all accounts, he really liked doing this episode.

54
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So I think he's pretty good as the evil version of the doctor who

55
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doesn't really end up with a name.

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And I also think what's good about it too, is that they actually

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go all in on making it a Gothic novel.

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So it's a, it's a sort of gothic horror story.

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You know, the doctor kind of delves into the weirdnesses of human

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psychology.

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There's, you know, these sort of weird extreme emotions, there's

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weather, there's, you know, a ravine.

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Like if it hadn't been a Star Trek episode, he would have

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plummeted off into that ravine with Kes and that would have been

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the end and it just the fact that it's Star Trek means that they

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get transported onto the ship at the last minute.

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So I think that that is actually not obviously a bad idea either.

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And I think where it fails is that it's kind of stuff that we've

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seen before.

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I mean earlier this season.

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We had Kess possessed and becoming evil, and I think that's a more

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successful episode than this. you think?

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It's more fun.

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Yeah, she's camping it up. has this insane bisexual dictator.

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Yeah.

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And it's Jennifer Leanne, who's normally, you know, mousy and

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quiet.

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She's loving it, jumping over tables, threatening to knock the

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woman this side and the man that side.

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Oh, great.

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Or he's just sort of hunched over and whispering and...

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You know, my big objection to this is like, that's not about

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anything.

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Like, we don't learn anything.

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Nobody goes through anything.

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It's 45 minutes of Star Trek on sort of, you know, yeah, you're

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right.

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The Gothic horror.

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I don't even think it's that successful or gothic horror.

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I thought Sub Rosa did a better job of sort of leaning into the

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aesthetic trappings of Gothic horror.

92
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Oh, I mean, this has, you know, down on the planet, I think it

93
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does the aesthetic trappings of Gothic horror, I think.

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It has a roaring fire and a ravine and a bit of wind, but...

95
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Yeah, so I think that it is a bit more substantial than that

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because what it has is something to say about humanity because the

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doctor becomes evil because he investigates or he incorporates

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into himself all of these characteristics from great figures from

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history.

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And what he discovers is that evil is more fundamental and has

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more right to exist than good does.

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And then Kess replies.

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Kess beats him by showing that even he as the evil version of the

104
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doctor, can't really live that way.

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And it's not a super profound thing.

106
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But I do think that there's a little bit of moral philosophy in

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there, which I thought was kind of interesting, if not hugely

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exciting.

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Maybe I just wasn't examining it at all. because I was just like

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when is this going to be over?

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When is he gonna kidnap her and try and kill her?

112
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Um, there is some interesting trivia about this one.

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Because apparently it started off as a very different sort of an

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episode featuring the doctor being this sort of perverse, sort of

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much creepier.

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They say on memory alpha.

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There was a sequence where he had lots of copies of Kez and he's

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behaving in a sort of very pervy, uncomfortable sort of a way.

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And Joe Manosky said, look, if you're going to, if you're going to

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go down this route with this episode, you can take my name off

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it.

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I don't want to be a part of it.

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And for Joe Manosky to say that, given, you know, he created fan

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favourite masks and the Thor and things like that, that's quite

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something.

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Yeah, I don't know.

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I think this is very indicative of season 3 of Star Trek Voyager.

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It's probably quite a nice idea.

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It's fairly banal in its execution and it passes an hour okay.

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That's right.

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But you can't have a season of Star Trek like that. of just that.

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It's okay.

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Well, you know, like it's not a huge disaster like manhunt, for

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instance, like it's written and it has a structure and it coheres

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around some ideas, you know, but it's pretty forgettable.

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I certainly had no memory of it, even though I have seen it

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before.

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When you rolled Darkling when you rolled Darkling last week, I was

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kind of, is there a Voyager episode called Darkling?

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So I had pretty thoroughly forgotten it.

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Do you recall the other 2 of the trilogy of terror?

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Rise and Favourite Sun?

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Well, I actually watched Rise Recently because of the story you

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told on the podcast about how Jerry Ryan watched it.

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After she, like when she was considering the job.

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And that is bad, but not completely worthless as well.

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I think it has some moments.

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Like it's not...

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Relentlessly terrible. brilliant.

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If they'd have had like 100 times the budget, better actors and

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you know, the script had had 3 more passes.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Tim Rusk gets a big role in it and that rarely happens and you've

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got to like that.

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So, you know, I think most of the time, you know, there's a germ

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of a good idea in every Star Trek episode, even the worst ones, but

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you know, it's kind of potluck in 90s trick as to how it's brought

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to the screen.

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But I mean, it sounds like this is the season where, and we've

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talked about this before.

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Season one and 2 is very Voyager, and it leans into the premise

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and it does things only Voyager could do.

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Here.

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It's nothing like that.

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There's a little bit of stuff at the beginning about how they've

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met these new people and their method of turning up to a planet

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and interacting with the locals is different from being sent on a

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mission by Starfleet or whatever.

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But essentially, this could have been in any Star Trek.

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They do the queue episode this season.

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Q and the Grey, they did the Ferengi episode this season.

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They do the, you know, um, an alien delegation comes on the ship

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and passes on race memories of terrible Holocaust things that

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happened in the past episode.

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They do the macrovirus on the shit.

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I mean, it's all TNG knockoffs.

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Do you remember that one with Jane Boy's like Ripley going around

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in a tank top and a big gum?

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I mean that's pretty cool. shitty CGI floating monsters.

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But there ain't nothing they couldn't have done in TNG.

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No.

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Until the end where they remember.

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Oh yeah, we're in an aboriginal space.

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Let's go into Borg space, you know, and then they do scorpion.

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But it takes until then.

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Like this, this could have been, uh, you know, I don't know, Rich

187
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Barkley could have been playing about with a hologram and creating

188
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an evil hologram made out of, um, I mean, who is it the doctor

189
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uses in this?

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Oh, is Byron?

191
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So Lord Byron's there, Gandhi.

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I mean, we'll get there and we'll see.

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I mean, Gandhi.

194
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Well, we'll get there because I have things to say.

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Okay.

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Well should we watch it?

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I think we probably should.

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So I will count us in 5, 4, 3, 2, one, and we're off.

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Here we go.

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Oh, look at that.

201
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It does look like...

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506, 93.2.

203
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No, it looks like a toilet bowl.

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I think it looks like a trowel.

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You see there you go.

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That's a nice shot.

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That's a thing.

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I swear that's the same shot from Angel one. you know, it seems

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one of next year.

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That has that building that we see over and over again throughout

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the...

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Well, actually, every time that Kate Mulgrew turned up, it was not

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too often, unfortunately, she's delightful.

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I like this set, actually, this bar.

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I think it's reasonably good.

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I think that's the same set, you know, that they had for alliances

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in the previous season.

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They use a similar sort of bar.

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I think they've kept it around and they've just ended a bit of set

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dressing and a fireplace.

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But I think giving it the fireplace and giving it the stone walls

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you know, as if it's taking place in an old building and that's

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one of the venues for Gothic to take place.

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And we open with him telling this sort of ghost story. you know

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essentially, which we discover is, what is his nose?

226
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He's like a low range. piercing eyes, isn't he?

227
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Yeah, yeah.

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Well, what were you watching the other day when you said someone

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had, you were watching a 90s track the other day, weren't you, when

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you said someone had extra nostrils or something like that?

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Oh, yeah, no, well, that was in Warlord, which I watched after

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this.

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Yeah.

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So Zahir is the handsome one, played by David Lee Smith, and he's

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sort of very handsome in a Ronan kind of way.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Like he's not actually handsome, but he would look good on the

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front cover of a sort of pulpy romance novel.

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And he's having a romance with Kezin.

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Now, Kez has recently separated from Neelix.

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Well, God, which spares us having to talk about that relationship

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anyway.

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Yeah, well, in fact, that happens in Warlord when she's actually

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possessed by the guy.

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She dumps him for being too clingy.

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Ethan Phillips has a lot to say about that. actually.

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There's a quote from him saying he was really annoyed because

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there was a sequence in warlord at the end where she says, no, this

249
00:12:50.879 --> 00:12:52.080
wasn't me possessed.

250
00:12:52.139 --> 00:12:55.799
I genuinely want to break up with you. and he's really her, but

251
00:12:55.799 --> 00:12:58.679
they actually bring, because, Ethan Villa's just like, well, that

252
00:12:58.679 --> 00:13:00.480
relationship just got brought to an end in the middle of this

253
00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:03.600
episode, where, you know, this has been going on for 2.5 years.

254
00:13:03.659 --> 00:13:05.399
We've done whole episodes about this relationship.

255
00:13:05.460 --> 00:13:08.580
Shouldn't we bring this to a definitive conclusion?

256
00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:10.200
And they just go, nah, that'll do.

257
00:13:10.259 --> 00:13:12.480
Yeah, but it's series 3, isn't it?

258
00:13:12.539 --> 00:13:14.700
Like series 3 isn't doing serialisation.

259
00:13:14.759 --> 00:13:17.639
It's not changing the status quo. not leaning into the premise.

260
00:13:17.700 --> 00:13:20.700
It's just trying to do old Star Trek episodes, I think.

261
00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:25.139
And romance of the week and he can play this week's, you know

262
00:13:25.139 --> 00:13:26.700
victim of this Gothic horror.

263
00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:30.179
Well, I have to say that I wouldn't have wanted to watch that

264
00:13:30.179 --> 00:13:33.179
scene because I think that the Kess Neelix relationship is

265
00:13:33.179 --> 00:13:36.419
terrible for both characters and I'm glad it's over.

266
00:13:37.080 --> 00:13:38.460
Yeah.

267
00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:40.559
What were they thinking?

268
00:13:41.159 --> 00:13:43.019
Yeah, I don't know.

269
00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:43.919
Don't know.

270
00:13:43.980 --> 00:13:46.259
We've got this great idea.

271
00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:47.700
We can have this weird alien.

272
00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:51.659
It's like this amalgam of every single latex alien we've ever had

273
00:13:51.659 --> 00:13:55.559
in Star Trek before. and he's in love with a three-year-old. two

274
00:13:54.600 --> 00:13:55.559
year-old.

275
00:13:55.620 --> 00:13:56.639
That's right.

276
00:13:56.639 --> 00:13:59.159
So weird.

277
00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:02.580
Not quite as weird as when they did that.

278
00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:05.460
You remember, the one that went into the future and Harry Kim was

279
00:14:05.460 --> 00:14:06.960
then having sex with a 2 year old.

280
00:14:07.019 --> 00:14:08.100
That was gross.

281
00:14:08.220 --> 00:14:09.720
Okay, so here we are.

282
00:14:09.779 --> 00:14:11.580
Here is Gandhi.

283
00:14:11.639 --> 00:14:15.840
But what we're seeing Gandhi do is be a massive killjoy about

284
00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:16.559
sex.

285
00:14:16.620 --> 00:14:21.299
And of course, he was that, you know, like, so all of that sort of

286
00:14:21.299 --> 00:14:22.080
super tedious.

287
00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:26.159
And all of these people that we, I mean, and this, the least sexy

288
00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:29.700
Lord Byron ever to appear on screen.

289
00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:33.779
Probably one of the worst actors in any star.

290
00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:36.840
He's doing this awfully clipped British accent.

291
00:14:36.899 --> 00:14:38.460
Well, I think he's American.

292
00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:38.820
Surely.

293
00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:40.919
They have just got an American trying to do the accent.

294
00:14:40.980 --> 00:14:41.879
It's really...

295
00:14:41.940 --> 00:14:42.659
And can I just say it?

296
00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:46.679
This whole hideous Hawaii holidays there.

297
00:14:46.740 --> 00:14:49.320
I hate it on a level I cannot explain.

298
00:14:49.379 --> 00:14:53.039
You know, I really liked it because I did go back and watch

299
00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:55.919
Warlord, which is where this is set, is introduced, I think.

300
00:14:56.039 --> 00:14:59.580
Is that the one where Neelix's feet are jiggling about?

301
00:14:59.639 --> 00:15:00.720
Yeah, yeah.

302
00:15:00.779 --> 00:15:01.980
Yeah, he's dancing.

303
00:15:02.039 --> 00:15:02.700
I can't remember.

304
00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:03.299
I think it is.

305
00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:04.860
I think it's the 1st scene of Warlord.

306
00:15:04.919 --> 00:15:05.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

307
00:15:05.820 --> 00:15:10.620
And they sex the program up a bit because Neelix is a sort of high

308
00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:12.059
end spa for very rich people.

309
00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:15.600
And then I think Tom puts lots of girls in bikinis.

310
00:15:15.659 --> 00:15:18.899
Oh, there's Tapau over there. look to power at the desk. literally

311
00:15:18.899 --> 00:15:22.019
it is just the colony set they use for other places.

312
00:15:22.500 --> 00:15:25.980
Made to look like a beach, like go and film it on a fucking

313
00:15:25.980 --> 00:15:26.340
beach.

314
00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:27.779
Or does it sound like you?

315
00:15:27.840 --> 00:15:29.759
Is this is this some?

316
00:15:29.879 --> 00:15:32.399
I don't know who that is, some Greek philosopher, probably

317
00:15:32.460 --> 00:15:33.179
philosopher.

318
00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:34.259
Yeah, I don't know who.

319
00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:35.220
He's wearing a robe.

320
00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:36.480
Yeah, you know.

321
00:15:36.539 --> 00:15:39.240
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's not bald, so it can't be Socrates.

322
00:15:39.299 --> 00:15:41.460
You see how Gandhi's trying to get out of shot there.

323
00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:42.779
He was running off.

324
00:15:42.899 --> 00:15:44.399
No, in fact, this is fantastic.

325
00:15:44.460 --> 00:15:48.059
It's Gandy talking to a lady in a bikini, which I just think is

326
00:15:48.059 --> 00:15:50.580
absolutely hilarious in the background of this shop.

327
00:15:50.700 --> 00:15:53.100
You know, like, this would be fun, but do you remember the

328
00:15:53.100 --> 00:15:58.620
beginning of, uh, is it Times Arrow or Descent, where Data's got

329
00:15:58.620 --> 00:16:01.440
uh, Stephen Hawking and, you know, all the geniuses?

330
00:16:01.500 --> 00:16:02.580
Oh, I started.

331
00:16:02.639 --> 00:16:03.899
We've done this before.

332
00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:05.039
Yeah, yeah.

333
00:16:05.100 --> 00:16:11.340
I do actually like the weird grotesqueness of what the doctor does

334
00:16:11.340 --> 00:16:14.279
to those holograms later in the episode.

335
00:16:14.340 --> 00:16:16.379
I don't think it goes far enough.

336
00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:18.720
I think it's all a bit comic and yeah.

337
00:16:18.779 --> 00:16:22.379
Like, it should be really, it should be like horrible.

338
00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:26.279
But it is like you said, it's PG-13, 90s track, isn't it?

339
00:16:26.340 --> 00:16:32.399
It's it sort of straddles the line between disturbing and stupid

340
00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:37.019
and I think it basically lands on stupid, but it's it's near, it's

341
00:16:37.019 --> 00:16:38.460
getting near disturbing, I think.

342
00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:42.240
And so here, there we go.

343
00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:45.480
There's the doctor delivering some much needed exposition in case

344
00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:51.360
you missed that and who wouldn't miss that Neelix and case have

345
00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:53.100
broken up in case you've been wondering.

346
00:16:53.519 --> 00:16:56.759
Oh, my outside Gandhi had terrible legs.

347
00:16:56.879 --> 00:16:57.960
Didn't they?

348
00:16:59.159 --> 00:17:01.080
He was famous for it.

349
00:17:01.139 --> 00:17:01.620
Yeah.

350
00:17:03.059 --> 00:17:06.240
I mean, it is, I suppose it's quite nice that they're giving

351
00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:09.480
Jennifer Leanne more opportunities because she's only going to be

352
00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:11.400
around for another sort of half season now.

353
00:17:11.460 --> 00:17:13.319
Yeah, less than that.

354
00:17:13.380 --> 00:17:16.559
At this point, there's very few episodes for her left because

355
00:17:16.559 --> 00:17:17.700
we're quite...

356
00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:21.900
But in this season, they give a warlords, this, and before and

357
00:17:21.900 --> 00:17:22.259
after.

358
00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:24.539
Those are the 3 biggies this season.

359
00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:28.200
And as we discussed before, you know, they put a ton of latex on

360
00:17:28.200 --> 00:17:31.920
our own before and after. and ask her to try and act her way

361
00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:32.339
through it.

362
00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:34.500
It's pretty grim, isn't it?

363
00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:36.359
I think she's really good.

364
00:17:36.420 --> 00:17:40.019
I think she's massively underused, but I really like her.

365
00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:42.660
And when she's just doing her normal thing because she's got that

366
00:17:42.660 --> 00:17:47.759
beautiful, deep voice and she's sort of, you know, she's kindly an

367
00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:51.660
elf and I, you know, and I like her relationship with a doctor a

368
00:17:51.660 --> 00:17:54.000
lot and I like her relationship with Jane.

369
00:17:54.059 --> 00:17:58.619
Especially in series one where she's sort of going after his

370
00:17:58.619 --> 00:18:01.799
rights, you know, she actually goes up to the captain and says, you

371
00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:03.299
know, you treat him like a person.

372
00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:06.240
You use him like a person, so treat him like a person, you know.

373
00:18:06.299 --> 00:18:06.839
Yeah.

374
00:18:06.900 --> 00:18:10.500
And then Jane Wick goes sick by and apologises to him.

375
00:18:10.619 --> 00:18:11.039
It's wonderful.

376
00:18:11.099 --> 00:18:14.039
And then Robert Picardo's reaction to that, whereas like, that's

377
00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:15.599
the last thing he ever suspected to happen.

378
00:18:15.660 --> 00:18:17.220
It's really touching.

379
00:18:18.119 --> 00:18:22.920
You go, Voyager, stately, heading through planets and nebulae.

380
00:18:22.980 --> 00:18:27.660
Yeah, well, this is a bit less fun than the lower decks opening

381
00:18:27.660 --> 00:18:28.440
credits.

382
00:18:28.500 --> 00:18:34.680
Um, and maybe talk about that. creatures sucking the serena.

383
00:18:34.740 --> 00:18:35.579
No.

384
00:18:35.640 --> 00:18:39.299
I've been recently binge watching all the lower decks episodes

385
00:18:39.299 --> 00:18:40.259
that I haven't seen.

386
00:18:40.380 --> 00:18:44.220
May I say, I watched this in the middle of all that, and this was

387
00:18:44.220 --> 00:18:46.920
nowhere near as fun as any of those appears. of them.

388
00:18:49.980 --> 00:18:52.019
Now this sequence here.

389
00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:55.680
Okay, this is the one bit where he behaves in a bit of a purview

390
00:18:55.680 --> 00:18:56.339
way, isn't it?

391
00:18:56.400 --> 00:18:59.279
where he's not stroking a leg.

392
00:18:59.339 --> 00:19:02.160
But unfortunately, she does have to belong.

393
00:19:02.220 --> 00:19:07.559
Yeah, doing it to Kes, I think, would have been more unpleasant to

394
00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:08.099
watch.

395
00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:12.900
And this is kind of gross, but she's immediately kind of what the

396
00:19:12.900 --> 00:19:13.619
hell are you doing?

397
00:19:13.619 --> 00:19:16.619
And then she absolutely...

398
00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:17.220
Yeah, yeah.

399
00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:19.319
You know, do that, I'm going to snap, snap your fingers off.

400
00:19:19.380 --> 00:19:20.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

401
00:19:20.940 --> 00:19:22.799
Like and so that's pretty cool.

402
00:19:23.880 --> 00:19:25.859
She's so great.

403
00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:26.700
You better back off.

404
00:19:28.500 --> 00:19:32.940
I think Torres is certainly in latter-day voyage.

405
00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:35.579
We've discussed this, but I think she's massively underused.

406
00:19:35.640 --> 00:19:37.619
Roxanne Dawson is such a presence.

407
00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:41.759
She's good Yeah, I mean, there's some great people on this cast.

408
00:19:41.819 --> 00:19:46.079
It's not quite the all-star cast of Deep Space Nine, but, you know

409
00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:49.799
you've got the good Robert, you've got Janeway, you've got Tim

410
00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:54.119
Russ, you've got Belana, Jerry Ryan. you know, Jerry Ryan.

411
00:19:54.180 --> 00:19:54.900
Jennifer Leanne.

412
00:19:54.900 --> 00:19:55.680
Jennifer Leanne.

413
00:19:55.740 --> 00:19:56.519
Like, they're all good.

414
00:19:57.059 --> 00:20:01.079
And what is weird as well is even like the weaker actors.

415
00:20:01.140 --> 00:20:02.880
There are moments where they deliver.

416
00:20:02.940 --> 00:20:04.799
Yeah, of course.

417
00:20:04.859 --> 00:20:06.539
Yeah, they're not terrible all the time.

418
00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:08.880
Not even the worst, Robert.

419
00:20:08.940 --> 00:20:13.680
Whereas, you know, like the TNG chart cast, which coast along on

420
00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:15.059
fantastic chemistry.

421
00:20:15.059 --> 00:20:18.480
Oh, sorry. and just being a new thing.

422
00:20:18.539 --> 00:20:22.559
I mean, the thing with the TNG cast is they kind of broke the

423
00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:25.319
ground here and created this kind of thing.

424
00:20:25.380 --> 00:20:28.619
Ah, ooh, that's interesting, isn't it?

425
00:20:28.680 --> 00:20:34.319
So he starts stroking her leg after he has isolated the additions

426
00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:36.779
to his program and held them for a view.

427
00:20:36.839 --> 00:20:39.720
So he's still behaving like that.

428
00:20:39.779 --> 00:20:43.380
So this is the 1st hint that these additions to his program are

429
00:20:43.380 --> 00:20:45.660
leaking in some way.

430
00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:46.920
There's some kind of problem.

431
00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:51.059
Do you know what pleased me was they didn't wait too long.

432
00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:55.799
You know, after Zahir is thrown off the ravine or whatever, occurs

433
00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:56.099
to him.

434
00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:57.240
They didn't wait too long.

435
00:20:57.299 --> 00:20:59.940
I think it's in the very next scene, they have the doctor go into

436
00:20:59.940 --> 00:21:03.180
the bar and order the drink because I thought, if they turn this

437
00:21:03.180 --> 00:21:05.640
into a whodunit, when they, that's tedious.

438
00:21:05.700 --> 00:21:08.400
It's been adding all these evil personalities.

439
00:21:08.460 --> 00:21:09.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

440
00:21:09.059 --> 00:21:11.460
So we know it's not exactly a mystery.

441
00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:13.559
Are we getting a really shitty shot in a 2nd?

442
00:21:13.619 --> 00:21:17.640
So we're seeing them in front of some rocks and some plants and

443
00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:18.000
stuff.

444
00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:21.299
It's a, you know, just a terrible Star Trek planet set.

445
00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:25.140
But I think, do we get to see them looking out at the moon or

446
00:21:25.140 --> 00:21:25.440
something?

447
00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:28.619
Yeah, they do a lot, really bad.

448
00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:31.740
It's a wonderful episode called Prime Factors.

449
00:21:31.740 --> 00:21:36.539
Oh, it's most sort of filmed on, you know, standard colony set

450
00:21:36.539 --> 00:21:37.200
number 58.

451
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:41.819
And but there's one scene of Harry Kim looking out across a

452
00:21:41.819 --> 00:21:45.660
beautiful vista and there's this photographed in front of her

453
00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:46.559
better than that.

454
00:21:46.619 --> 00:21:48.720
It's still, this is bad though.

455
00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:50.099
I mean, it's something.

456
00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:52.380
I get an awful lot of enjoyment, though, you know, when I watch

457
00:21:52.380 --> 00:21:56.160
90s trek now. there's a particularly bad visual effect because I

458
00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:59.279
can just see you there watching it appalled, you know?

459
00:21:59.819 --> 00:22:02.640
You know, add something, I guess.

460
00:22:02.700 --> 00:22:04.380
Oh, dear.

461
00:22:04.380 --> 00:22:07.019
So whenever we do these episodes and we watch them in preparation

462
00:22:07.019 --> 00:22:10.319
for untitled Star Trek, I just, I just think about you watching it

463
00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:11.640
going, oh, God.

464
00:22:12.059 --> 00:22:14.279
What were they thinking?

465
00:22:17.339 --> 00:22:19.920
But like, you know, can I say this is another one of those 90s

466
00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:20.880
alien races, you know?

467
00:22:20.940 --> 00:22:22.259
We never going to remember again, are we?

468
00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:23.579
No, they're so unmemorable.

469
00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:24.660
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

470
00:22:24.779 --> 00:22:28.680
We talk about the Beaumar, but like, no, I mean, these people

471
00:22:28.680 --> 00:22:29.819
don't look stupid.

472
00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:34.680
They've got sort of crappy kind of Bajoran nose ridges that are

473
00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:36.839
worse than the orbit, Joran nose ridges.

474
00:22:36.900 --> 00:22:41.460
But, um, I guess because he has to look pretty, he can't have, he

475
00:22:41.460 --> 00:22:45.119
can't be too Beaumari-ish, otherwise we wouldn't, you know, want

476
00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:47.099
to watch him kissing Cass.

477
00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:48.240
Not sure I want to watch it anyway.

478
00:22:48.299 --> 00:22:50.460
Clearly the doctor does, though, in that little.

479
00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:53.099
It is sinister, but rogue.

480
00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:54.660
What could it possibly be?

481
00:22:58.259 --> 00:23:02.940
I think, too, that part of the problem is that Star Trek does such

482
00:23:02.940 --> 00:23:05.160
straightforward linear storytelling at this point.

483
00:23:05.220 --> 00:23:07.740
Look, this is the walk of shame.

484
00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:10.319
She's been up all night fucking Zahir.

485
00:23:10.380 --> 00:23:12.599
You sort of do nothing where you can arrest your shoulder for some

486
00:23:12.599 --> 00:23:17.400
reason. that's right And look, she gets side eye from the

487
00:23:17.400 --> 00:23:20.940
transporter chief, chief who knows exactly what's going on here.

488
00:23:20.940 --> 00:23:22.380
What he's been up to last night, yeah.

489
00:23:22.500 --> 00:23:23.099
Yes.

490
00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:24.599
Why do you smell that?

491
00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:27.480
I would choose such a fucking killjoy, isn't it?

492
00:23:27.539 --> 00:23:30.900
Well, remember, got a report during 3 hours.

493
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:33.599
Although I do like the next bit where she...

494
00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:36.420
Is she in the in the room with Janeway and she looks like death

495
00:23:36.420 --> 00:23:38.339
warmed up because she's only had 2 hours sleep.

496
00:23:38.460 --> 00:23:39.539
Yeah.

497
00:23:39.539 --> 00:23:40.019
Yeah.

498
00:23:40.079 --> 00:23:45.180
And Jane, where it goes, I'm the past master at, you know, pulling

499
00:23:45.180 --> 00:23:47.460
an all night. and then going to work the next day.

500
00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:49.380
Janeway is so great, isn't she?

501
00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:50.339
She is.

502
00:23:50.400 --> 00:23:53.460
Does that mean that she was like, you know, up all night having

503
00:23:53.460 --> 00:23:57.539
sex with someone and then submitting an essay by the 7 AM 9 AM

504
00:23:57.539 --> 00:23:58.859
deadline the next day or something?

505
00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:02.940
You're talking about me age 15 to 20 there, you know.

506
00:24:06.059 --> 00:24:08.099
I can do it now.

507
00:24:09.059 --> 00:24:15.599
But look, she's absolutely dressed in one of Depole's old outfits

508
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:19.799
that have obviously been lying around for a few 100 years, isn't

509
00:24:19.799 --> 00:24:19.980
she?

510
00:24:20.700 --> 00:24:25.019
It looks, well, it's that sort of velour look against it, you were

511
00:24:25.019 --> 00:24:25.680
talking about.

512
00:24:25.740 --> 00:24:25.920
Yeah.

513
00:24:25.980 --> 00:24:30.420
Um, you know, this this kind of works because you'd think the

514
00:24:30.420 --> 00:24:33.960
doctor would be a little bit concerned about her, you know, going

515
00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:34.859
off and...

516
00:24:34.859 --> 00:24:36.720
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

517
00:24:38.460 --> 00:24:40.559
But because we've had all these scenes beforehand.

518
00:24:40.619 --> 00:24:45.059
And the indication that he's already a dirty pervert with B'lana.

519
00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:48.779
None of this, like it doesn't add up to any kind of a mystery.

520
00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:49.799
There's no suspense.

521
00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:52.619
It's just like, okay, well, when are people going to figure out

522
00:24:52.619 --> 00:24:53.880
the doctor's got a bit bad?

523
00:24:53.940 --> 00:24:58.799
Yeah, yeah, but the problem is, isn't it, that we know before

524
00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:00.119
anyone else does?

525
00:25:00.180 --> 00:25:04.079
And so they look stupid is the problem because it's super obvious

526
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:04.559
to us.

527
00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:10.619
You know, and if we hadn't seen that, if we discovered later that

528
00:25:10.619 --> 00:25:13.799
the doctor had been doing this, that would have made it a bit more

529
00:25:13.799 --> 00:25:16.559
interesting, but we're not going to do that in 90s trek, because

530
00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:19.859
it's meant to be comprehensible to people who aren't paying much

531
00:25:19.859 --> 00:25:21.059
attention, I think.

532
00:25:21.180 --> 00:25:24.059
I can't believe I'm going to ask you this question, but it happens

533
00:25:24.059 --> 00:25:26.400
so frequently that I can actually ask you this.

534
00:25:26.460 --> 00:25:31.140
Is there ever on a regular character has gone evil episode that

535
00:25:31.140 --> 00:25:32.460
actually genuinely works?

536
00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:37.920
I thought we liked Marina in PowerPlay.

537
00:25:37.980 --> 00:25:39.539
I think.

538
00:25:39.660 --> 00:25:44.819
No, Marina in the one with Alcar. when she's like man of the

539
00:25:44.819 --> 00:25:45.000
people.

540
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:47.279
Don't leave me alcohol.

541
00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:50.700
She attacked Picard with a knife in the transporter.

542
00:25:50.759 --> 00:25:55.440
Yeah, but is she also the one who goes, I think that he just might

543
00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:58.019
be sick of hearing you whining all the time.

544
00:25:59.220 --> 00:26:01.859
Oh, I love that scene so much.

545
00:26:01.859 --> 00:26:04.440
She goes, I know I am.

546
00:26:04.980 --> 00:26:07.019
It's so good.

547
00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:10.740
No, I'll tell you what, actually, the best, probably the best ever

548
00:26:10.740 --> 00:26:16.319
like, chilling performers is Tim Russett Mild, when he's the

549
00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:16.799
serial killer.

550
00:26:16.920 --> 00:26:18.299
Yeah, yeah.

551
00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:20.220
Well, he's really properly good actor.

552
00:26:20.279 --> 00:26:22.380
I think Kirst does a better job.

553
00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:23.940
Well, I think it's a better episode.

554
00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:25.140
It's a more fun episode.

555
00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:30.539
Do you not remember Evil Janeway in that episode where they're all

556
00:26:30.539 --> 00:26:31.319
misremembered?

557
00:26:31.559 --> 00:26:37.079
And she goes, when diplomacy fails, there's only one recourse

558
00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:37.799
violence.

559
00:26:37.859 --> 00:26:38.279
Violence.

560
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:40.619
It must be applied without apology.

561
00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:42.779
That's a really good episode, though.

562
00:26:42.900 --> 00:26:45.660
That's one of the, that's top 5 voyages.

563
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:46.440
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

564
00:26:46.500 --> 00:26:47.220
Living Witness.

565
00:26:47.220 --> 00:26:48.240
Living Witness.

566
00:26:48.299 --> 00:26:48.660
Thats it.

567
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:49.619
Yeah really good.

568
00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:52.500
This certainly is not top five.

569
00:26:52.619 --> 00:26:54.660
No, I don't think it's bottom 5 though.

570
00:26:54.720 --> 00:27:01.019
It is relentlessly and unashamedly mediocre, I think.

571
00:27:03.779 --> 00:27:08.519
I've always aspire to be unashamedly mediocre though.

572
00:27:08.579 --> 00:27:09.539
That's it.

573
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:10.559
Me too.

574
00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:16.380
I think I mean, again, these 2 together aren't great, aren't

575
00:27:16.380 --> 00:27:16.500
they?

576
00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:17.700
It is always good.

577
00:27:17.759 --> 00:27:18.059
Yeah.

578
00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:21.839
Right up into the gift as well, where they have a phenomenal scene

579
00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:22.259
in that.

580
00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:24.839
I just, I like the fact she's always straddling a coffee cup

581
00:27:24.839 --> 00:27:25.559
Janeway, you know.

582
00:27:25.619 --> 00:27:28.440
We never quite forget she loves a cup of coffee.

583
00:27:28.500 --> 00:27:29.940
No, that's her character.

584
00:27:30.059 --> 00:27:32.640
They made a joke about that in Lower Decks, yet?

585
00:27:32.700 --> 00:27:35.220
They like the Janeway blend or something like that.

586
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:36.779
I don't know. can't remember.

587
00:27:36.839 --> 00:27:40.500
I think part of the problem, though, is the usual 90s trek

588
00:27:40.500 --> 00:27:45.420
dialogue as well, which is all just a little bit ripe and free of

589
00:27:45.420 --> 00:27:46.619
subtext.

590
00:27:46.680 --> 00:27:47.400
I think.

591
00:27:47.460 --> 00:27:50.700
Oh, but that look, look, there's giving the look.

592
00:27:51.420 --> 00:27:54.900
The exacts aren't looking at her anymore, so she can be a bit

593
00:27:54.900 --> 00:27:55.440
maternal.

594
00:27:55.500 --> 00:27:57.180
Yeah, which is kind of nice.

595
00:27:57.240 --> 00:27:58.980
That is actually kind of nice, I think.

596
00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:01.140
So we've established now.

597
00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:02.700
This is how obvious this all is.

598
00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:05.400
We've established now, you know, Kes isn't falling for this

599
00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:09.720
beautiful man on the planet with the bizarre Bajoran reduced, and

600
00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:12.299
he's been very helpful and he's getting them in touch with the

601
00:28:12.299 --> 00:28:14.519
right people to get the warp coils or whatever they need.

602
00:28:14.579 --> 00:28:17.759
This man is absolutely vital to Kez and the crew.

603
00:28:17.819 --> 00:28:20.099
So now he's going to be almost bumped off.

604
00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:22.440
Well, I don't think he's vital.

605
00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:24.720
And in fact, that's one of the things that I like about this

606
00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:29.579
episode is they just seem to be here to meet these people and to

607
00:28:29.579 --> 00:28:34.140
talk to them about. when they go when they do you remember that

608
00:28:34.140 --> 00:28:35.160
episode in series 6?

609
00:28:35.220 --> 00:28:39.000
Um, survival instinct. is the 2nd episode where they go to that

610
00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:42.599
space station and they're just hanging out with this fabulous race

611
00:28:42.599 --> 00:28:44.279
of people on this amazing setting.

612
00:28:44.339 --> 00:28:46.200
I'm like, yeah, they should do more of that though.

613
00:28:46.259 --> 00:28:46.859
Yeah.

614
00:28:46.920 --> 00:28:51.480
And I think Voyager can do that, perhaps, maybe more than other

615
00:28:51.480 --> 00:28:54.359
things where there's always a mission or something.

616
00:28:54.420 --> 00:28:56.220
They're just here on their way home.

617
00:28:56.279 --> 00:28:57.660
I kind of like it.

618
00:28:57.720 --> 00:29:02.819
And I think this scene is, I'm not sure what this scene is doing

619
00:29:02.819 --> 00:29:07.680
but again, it's actually quite nice having Tim Rusk get to do

620
00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:10.799
something with someone for a change rather than just pressing

621
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:11.940
buttons from the tactical station.

622
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:15.779
It is nice for everybody, like Jane Wade Schubok, the doctor.

623
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:18.359
We've had a succession of scenes where they're all concerned about

624
00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:22.200
her in different ways because she's exploring. you know, this like

625
00:29:22.200 --> 00:29:23.700
this romantic side over now.

626
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:26.400
But like, are we supposed to think that she's going to want to

627
00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:28.140
stay here with this man?

628
00:29:28.200 --> 00:29:30.000
Maybe.

629
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:32.400
I mean, no, probably not.

630
00:29:32.460 --> 00:29:35.039
It's got to go wrong, doesn't it, in some way?

631
00:29:35.700 --> 00:29:39.299
It was just a bit in the minute where he's like, hello, is

632
00:29:39.299 --> 00:29:39.960
somebody there?

633
00:29:40.019 --> 00:29:42.180
He was like, oh, mate.

634
00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:47.460
You're going to be thrown off that ravine any minute.

635
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:48.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

636
00:29:49.019 --> 00:29:52.559
Do you know, I swear that ravine, they must keep that ravine

637
00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:55.200
hanging around as well, you know, because that's in a couple of, I

638
00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:58.740
think it's definitely in an episode of TNG where they climb a rock

639
00:29:58.740 --> 00:29:59.099
face.

640
00:29:59.160 --> 00:29:59.759
Yeah.

641
00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:04.559
And it's in the, uh, it's in an episode of uh, Deep Space 9 move

642
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:06.299
along home where they all fall off it.

643
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:09.299
In slow motion.

644
00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:14.039
Well, I think it's, I think it's probably too expensive a set to

645
00:30:14.039 --> 00:30:20.099
be from early 90s trek because everything just looked like sort of

646
00:30:20.099 --> 00:30:24.059
chicken wire with a bit of papier mache on it, you know, like it

647
00:30:24.059 --> 00:30:26.579
never looked, there's a lot of detail in that.

648
00:30:26.579 --> 00:30:30.539
Well, they were going for the true TOS aesthetic in those early

649
00:30:30.539 --> 00:30:31.319
days, you know.

650
00:30:31.380 --> 00:30:31.980
They were.

651
00:30:32.039 --> 00:30:32.519
Yeah, yeah.

652
00:30:32.579 --> 00:30:32.759
No.

653
00:30:32.819 --> 00:30:36.299
I think that's almost a deliberate choice, but, you know, I mean

654
00:30:36.299 --> 00:30:37.680
this isn't much better than that, is it?

655
00:30:37.740 --> 00:30:41.099
It's like we said, though, when we watched Enterprise last week

656
00:30:41.099 --> 00:30:43.319
yeah, things did move on a bit.

657
00:30:43.380 --> 00:30:46.859
I know the CGI was a little ropey, but...

658
00:30:46.980 --> 00:30:47.460
You know?

659
00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:51.180
And they rented a conference room at a shitty hotel as well.

660
00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:52.380
There we go.

661
00:30:52.440 --> 00:30:53.519
There he goes.

662
00:30:53.579 --> 00:30:55.740
I do quite like the slow motion.

663
00:30:55.799 --> 00:30:57.779
We don't have a lot of that in 90s straight, yeah.

664
00:30:57.839 --> 00:30:59.460
Yeah, it's a bit shit, isn't it?

665
00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:02.819
But like, because I guess it would have looked like shit is a bit

666
00:31:02.819 --> 00:31:07.079
at the end when they Kez goes over and we literally do a POV shot

667
00:31:07.079 --> 00:31:07.980
going down the mountain.

668
00:31:13.079 --> 00:31:17.640
I just don't, I don't feel, like, Ricardo does say our memory

669
00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:19.500
alpha that he was having fun with this.

670
00:31:19.559 --> 00:31:21.299
I didn't really get that sense.

671
00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:24.839
I wasn't having a lot of fun with it Yeah, look at him.

672
00:31:24.900 --> 00:31:27.779
He gets to burn that shithead there, which is pretty cool.

673
00:31:27.900 --> 00:31:29.640
And he's got...

674
00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:30.299
Warlord.

675
00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:33.359
Jennifer Yen is loving it, you know?

676
00:31:33.539 --> 00:31:37.980
But I think I think Picardo is doing something different because

677
00:31:37.980 --> 00:31:42.000
he's, I mean, he's camp, but he's not sort of camping it up and

678
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:45.420
striding through things as a sort of as a big camp villain.

679
00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:48.599
Like there's something a little bit more kind of sordid and

680
00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:49.859
unpleasant about him.

681
00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:52.559
But because it's still Star Trek and there's a kind of lack of

682
00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:54.299
grittiness or realism to it.

683
00:31:54.359 --> 00:32:00.420
It, it doesn't kind of, you know, come off that well.

684
00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:04.619
In living witness, he gets a single scene where he plays the evil

685
00:32:04.619 --> 00:32:05.220
doctor in that.

686
00:32:05.279 --> 00:32:10.680
Yeah, and he's with 7 of 9 and they really lean into this sort of

687
00:32:10.680 --> 00:32:12.299
pervert doctor.

688
00:32:12.299 --> 00:32:16.920
And he's like, sorry, sort of sort of like stroking her implant

689
00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:19.259
and going on, start whining like a baby.

690
00:32:19.259 --> 00:32:22.440
And he's really, but he's chewing the scenery a bit, you know

691
00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:24.720
whereas he's not doing much chewing here, is he?

692
00:32:24.779 --> 00:32:25.259
Yeah.

693
00:32:25.259 --> 00:32:28.799
I mean, he's trying to give it a bit. a bit of substance.

694
00:32:28.859 --> 00:32:33.359
Yeah Well, I think he's read the script and maybe he's seen the

695
00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:37.380
big moral speech that he gets to do to Kes when he's back down at

696
00:32:37.380 --> 00:32:42.299
the bar and that sort of lifted it in his estimation.

697
00:32:42.720 --> 00:32:46.200
I don't know, though. you know, I think I probably would have just

698
00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:48.660
not a bit over the top if it was me.

699
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:51.839
Yeah, I mean, he's he hasn't been over the top.

700
00:32:51.900 --> 00:32:53.579
I think his hair is hilarious.

701
00:32:53.640 --> 00:32:55.200
He's got this.

702
00:32:55.619 --> 00:32:59.759
It's not quite Dr. Zimmerman hair, but he's got kind of, he's got

703
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:04.019
these big fake, you know, Klingon teeth, you know, on his bottom

704
00:33:04.019 --> 00:33:05.339
jaw.

705
00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:06.900
Razy, bogly contacts.

706
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:11.819
The contact lenses are really weird because they make his irises

707
00:33:11.819 --> 00:33:17.460
look smaller, and so he's these that are really unnaturally beady

708
00:33:17.460 --> 00:33:18.660
eyes, and look at him there.

709
00:33:18.720 --> 00:33:21.599
He's got these beautiful dark eyes in real life.

710
00:33:21.900 --> 00:33:26.519
And it's only just slight, you know.

711
00:33:26.579 --> 00:33:28.980
And so it does make him look weird.

712
00:33:29.039 --> 00:33:31.859
I mean, I think both of us rewatching this went, oh, he's wearing

713
00:33:31.859 --> 00:33:34.619
contact lenses, isn't he, before, you know, he'd read anything

714
00:33:34.619 --> 00:33:38.700
about it, but it's, it's, well, it's not subtle.

715
00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:43.079
But it is, it's an odd thing for them to do and it does make him

716
00:33:43.079 --> 00:33:44.519
look much creepier.

717
00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:48.420
May I say that every single Star Trek show needs the character

718
00:33:48.420 --> 00:33:52.619
that can make this techna barrel seem effortless, and Roxanne

719
00:33:52.619 --> 00:33:54.960
Dawson does a brilliant job.

720
00:33:55.019 --> 00:33:57.180
Yeah, yeah, she is pretty good.

721
00:33:57.299 --> 00:33:57.839
Stop it.

722
00:33:57.900 --> 00:33:58.740
It like Lebar Burns.

723
00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:00.180
It just trips off her tongue, you know?

724
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:05.339
I still think that LeVar doesn't get enough credit for being

725
00:34:05.339 --> 00:34:08.280
absolutely superb at doing that.

726
00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:09.900
He sells...

727
00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:11.039
We said the mould, didn't he?

728
00:34:11.099 --> 00:34:13.019
Yeah, yeah, but he just does it really well.

729
00:34:13.079 --> 00:34:17.280
Because they don't, like, I don't, I think Nemoy has to do a bit

730
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:18.659
of that in TOS.

731
00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:20.699
Yeah, but really that's not his function, is it?

732
00:34:20.760 --> 00:34:23.460
His function is to be a character. whereas I don't think Jordan La

733
00:34:23.460 --> 00:34:24.780
Forge's function is to be a character.

734
00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:26.760
No, yeah, he's his job.

735
00:34:26.820 --> 00:34:31.619
I think, too, that this version of Star Trek really leans into the

736
00:34:31.619 --> 00:34:36.960
techno babble more than 60 Star Trek, and partly, I think, because

737
00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:42.840
we, like, it expects us to be aware of more science and more

738
00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:46.139
technology than they were aware of in the 60s.

739
00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:47.099
Do you know what I mean?

740
00:34:47.159 --> 00:34:54.420
And I think that they also like to do the sort of magical kind of

741
00:34:54.420 --> 00:35:00.000
if we just say enough words, the space problem will go away, like

742
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:03.780
as a way of solving things, which is a flaw, but they very often

743
00:35:03.780 --> 00:35:08.460
go for that, see before and after, which we mentioned earlier.

744
00:35:08.519 --> 00:35:10.139
Um, yeah.

745
00:35:10.199 --> 00:35:13.500
I wonder who on earth knocked Banatores out.

746
00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:17.699
Yeah, I actually think I don't like this scene very much.

747
00:35:17.940 --> 00:35:24.659
Actually, I think it's a, it's the upcoming scene because so he

748
00:35:24.659 --> 00:35:27.239
paralyses her and then starts Menacinger.

749
00:35:27.239 --> 00:35:30.900
I think that's, that's probably too much, I think.

750
00:35:31.559 --> 00:35:33.780
That was the one bit rifle.

751
00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:35.280
This is a bit creepy.

752
00:35:35.340 --> 00:35:39.719
The bit where he's doing wacky things with the characters of the

753
00:35:39.719 --> 00:35:40.019
holiday.

754
00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:41.820
I just thought that was terrible.

755
00:35:41.880 --> 00:35:43.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

756
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:43.739
Yeah.

757
00:35:43.800 --> 00:35:46.079
And that, I mean, it's nearly going for that.

758
00:35:46.139 --> 00:35:50.460
It's going for grotesque and unsettling and just hits terrible.

759
00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:53.880
And it's certainly kind of scarier than when he's down on the

760
00:35:53.880 --> 00:35:56.579
planet and hunched over, you know, like.

761
00:35:56.940 --> 00:35:57.179
Yeah.

762
00:35:57.239 --> 00:36:01.139
Yeah, I mean, this is probably his most evil thing.

763
00:36:01.199 --> 00:36:03.119
Okay, now...

764
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:04.139
And he does...

765
00:36:04.139 --> 00:36:08.400
I do like the fact that he gets a bit jowly, you know, like his

766
00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:09.239
face is different.

767
00:36:09.300 --> 00:36:09.840
Is it?

768
00:36:09.900 --> 00:36:13.019
Well, it's partly the teeth, but it is his performance as well, I

769
00:36:13.019 --> 00:36:13.800
think, you know.

770
00:36:13.860 --> 00:36:18.659
He's he's a little sort of desperate with the hands and it's all

771
00:36:18.659 --> 00:36:19.500
kind of inwards.

772
00:36:19.559 --> 00:36:20.880
It's it's good.

773
00:36:20.940 --> 00:36:21.420
Yeah.

774
00:36:21.420 --> 00:36:21.840
Yeah.

775
00:36:21.900 --> 00:36:24.300
I mean, it is it's Jekyll and Hyde, isn't it?

776
00:36:24.360 --> 00:36:25.679
It is just Jekyll and Hyde.

777
00:36:25.800 --> 00:36:28.199
Theyve just ripped that off and said, oh, I would...

778
00:36:28.260 --> 00:36:30.599
But to do that, and for me to say it's not over the top.

779
00:36:30.659 --> 00:36:32.340
That's quite impressive, isn it?

780
00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:34.139
Well, it is a bit over the time.

781
00:36:34.199 --> 00:36:35.159
Look at him.

782
00:36:35.219 --> 00:36:36.179
How are we feeling?

783
00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:41.460
Sort of shaking his hands and like, yeah, and twitching and

784
00:36:41.460 --> 00:36:41.699
stuff.

785
00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:45.780
Yeah.

786
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:52.079
I also like too, that he hates the idea of the doctor.

787
00:36:52.860 --> 00:36:57.960
You know, he reacts to being called doctor and he dislikes the

788
00:36:57.960 --> 00:37:04.019
fact that he's our half, is the, he's a doctor because he, you

789
00:37:04.019 --> 00:37:09.420
know, because he thinks that um, violence and and things are, uh

790
00:37:09.420 --> 00:37:14.639
more fundamental than cooperation and caring.

791
00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:17.579
And when Kes gives the speech at the end.

792
00:37:17.639 --> 00:37:21.539
It's about, and it's a bit of a cheesy, shitty speech, but it's

793
00:37:21.539 --> 00:37:27.239
about how even at a cellular level we're a colony of things that

794
00:37:27.239 --> 00:37:31.980
cooperate, like cells and organs all work together to produce an

795
00:37:31.980 --> 00:37:37.679
organism, and that's more fundamental than the violence that he

796
00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:38.579
wants to perpetrate.

797
00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:40.199
So again, it's the doctor thing.

798
00:37:40.260 --> 00:37:42.960
It's the idea that he spends his time serving people.

799
00:37:43.019 --> 00:37:45.119
Those contact lenses look great.

800
00:37:45.780 --> 00:37:50.340
I just saw him run his finger along her leg there as well.

801
00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:52.199
So maybe there's a bit more of that than I thought.

802
00:37:52.260 --> 00:37:53.219
Yeah.

803
00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:56.699
So they were Picardo's idea, I think.

804
00:37:56.880 --> 00:37:58.679
What, the contact?

805
00:37:58.739 --> 00:37:59.699
The contact lenses?

806
00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:00.000
Yeah.

807
00:38:00.059 --> 00:38:01.079
Yeah.

808
00:38:01.500 --> 00:38:05.760
I don't think I mean, they do look good, but his performance is

809
00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:06.599
enough to sell.

810
00:38:08.280 --> 00:38:09.119
Yeah. you know?

811
00:38:09.179 --> 00:38:13.679
But I just think making him like it, yes, his performance could do

812
00:38:13.679 --> 00:38:17.639
it, but just making him physically weirder because that's the

813
00:38:17.639 --> 00:38:18.719
Jacqueline Hyde thing.

814
00:38:18.780 --> 00:38:22.920
It's not that just, you know, Dr. Jekyll's in a bad mood sometimes

815
00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:27.000
it is he transforms into a monster and here they do it.

816
00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:29.099
Look at those contact lenses.

817
00:38:29.159 --> 00:38:30.000
They're amazing.

818
00:38:30.119 --> 00:38:34.139
Like what you were just saying there about sort of the nature of

819
00:38:34.139 --> 00:38:37.079
evil and what you're rejecting now.

820
00:38:37.139 --> 00:38:40.559
I think it kind of tentatively touches on that here, but doesn't

821
00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:41.280
really explore it.

822
00:38:41.340 --> 00:38:44.940
Do you remember when we watched the swarm earlier in the season

823
00:38:44.940 --> 00:38:49.139
and it was doing the dementia storyline and it tentatively touched

824
00:38:49.139 --> 00:38:51.480
that, but it didn't really explore it.

825
00:38:51.539 --> 00:38:53.280
You know, like...

826
00:38:53.280 --> 00:38:55.679
But I think they can.

827
00:38:55.739 --> 00:38:59.639
They can, like, we did the visitor the other day and they explored

828
00:38:59.639 --> 00:39:03.599
grief in 45 minutes in a very profound way. can do it.

829
00:39:03.659 --> 00:39:08.280
Yeah, and they're not, they're not really doing it here.

830
00:39:08.340 --> 00:39:11.219
Like it is sort of window dressing, but again, I think it is

831
00:39:11.219 --> 00:39:15.599
something to do with with a genre, with a sort of Gothic horror

832
00:39:15.599 --> 00:39:16.440
genre.

833
00:39:16.739 --> 00:39:22.260
You know, because I mean, I haven't read Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde

834
00:39:22.260 --> 00:39:23.039
and maybe I should.

835
00:39:23.099 --> 00:39:26.940
And I'd forgotten until I was reading up on it that it's by Robert

836
00:39:26.940 --> 00:39:29.099
Louis Stevenson because of course it is.

837
00:39:29.099 --> 00:39:30.239
Oh, what's happening?

838
00:39:30.300 --> 00:39:32.340
This scene I really liked.

839
00:39:32.340 --> 00:39:34.980
Where nobody notices.

840
00:39:34.980 --> 00:39:37.739
The way he's practically... he's hunched.

841
00:39:37.800 --> 00:39:39.000
He's hunched over.

842
00:39:39.059 --> 00:39:41.340
He's like, you know, round shouldered.

843
00:39:41.400 --> 00:39:43.079
He looks really pissed off.

844
00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:47.099
She's so obsessed with whatever is on that pad that she doesn't

845
00:39:47.099 --> 00:39:49.260
even notice bizarre way that he's behaving.

846
00:39:49.320 --> 00:39:51.059
Yeah, she's just dumb.

847
00:39:51.059 --> 00:39:52.500
He's just...

848
00:39:52.500 --> 00:39:57.420
The turbo lift next to her, given her this like evil side eye.

849
00:39:57.480 --> 00:39:59.280
That's kind of creepy, you know?

850
00:39:59.340 --> 00:40:00.659
Yeah, yeah.

851
00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:05.940
But then who, like, I actually think, um, uh, doesn't Robert

852
00:40:05.940 --> 00:40:10.739
Duncan McNeil come on board the turbo lift, but he's contractual

853
00:40:10.739 --> 00:40:14.519
obligated scene, and I actually think he's pretty funny.

854
00:40:14.519 --> 00:40:19.619
And what's funny about it, I think, is, you know, that that

855
00:40:19.619 --> 00:40:25.800
Picardo's nearly a slavering monster at this moment, and he's just

856
00:40:25.800 --> 00:40:27.000
nobody notices.

857
00:40:27.059 --> 00:40:28.980
No, because he is such an asshole normally.

858
00:40:29.099 --> 00:40:32.039
Well, that's it because he's basically sort of kind of an

859
00:40:32.039 --> 00:40:38.820
obnoxious asshole and that's how that's how Tom reads it.

860
00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:42.300
I think this is exactly how you should script on Paris as well.

861
00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:44.579
Basically give him 3 lines in an episode, you know?

862
00:40:44.639 --> 00:40:48.360
Come in, acknowledge somebody, realise he's been insulted, walk

863
00:40:48.360 --> 00:40:48.539
out.

864
00:40:48.599 --> 00:40:50.159
Yeah, even the walk.

865
00:40:50.219 --> 00:40:50.880
Look at the walk.

866
00:40:50.940 --> 00:40:55.440
Like the way that Mr. Hyde Walks is pretty cool.

867
00:40:55.500 --> 00:40:57.539
Well, because the doctor's so clipped, isn't he?

868
00:40:57.599 --> 00:40:58.320
The way he walks.

869
00:40:58.380 --> 00:40:59.039
He's so precise.

870
00:40:59.099 --> 00:41:04.079
But he sort of hunched over and he's, it's really, he's a bit of a

871
00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:05.519
kind of scary bully.

872
00:41:05.579 --> 00:41:09.420
I wish to retract my statement from last week then saying that

873
00:41:09.420 --> 00:41:12.179
Robert Picardo gives a bad performance in this episode.

874
00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:13.800
No, I don't think he does.

875
00:41:13.860 --> 00:41:14.519
I think he's good.

876
00:41:14.579 --> 00:41:16.739
No, that's what I'm saying. taking it back.

877
00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:17.760
Yeah, good.

878
00:41:17.820 --> 00:41:18.179
Yeah.

879
00:41:18.239 --> 00:41:19.559
So what's that game again?

880
00:41:19.619 --> 00:41:20.699
Calto, is it?

881
00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:22.800
So it's like comedes.

882
00:41:22.860 --> 00:41:26.340
They're fucking obsessed with counts having Series 3. one episode

883
00:41:26.340 --> 00:41:27.000
it's not in.

884
00:41:27.719 --> 00:41:29.699
It's not that great.

885
00:41:29.699 --> 00:41:33.900
There's that episode where Harry Kim and Tom Tuvok are both

886
00:41:33.900 --> 00:41:35.760
fighting over the same...

887
00:41:35.820 --> 00:41:37.199
Holodeck character.

888
00:41:37.260 --> 00:41:39.000
Yes, yeah, that's right.

889
00:41:39.059 --> 00:41:41.760
They're both playing Calto to try and sort of one-up each other

890
00:41:41.760 --> 00:41:42.179
you know?

891
00:41:42.659 --> 00:41:43.980
Yeah.

892
00:41:44.039 --> 00:41:46.199
Well, I don't think it's as good as Strategyma.

893
00:41:48.900 --> 00:41:51.780
We had that scene at the beginning, which showed a bit of tension

894
00:41:51.780 --> 00:41:53.280
between the 2 alien characters.

895
00:41:53.340 --> 00:41:56.340
So now he's the chief suspect has done pushed him over the

896
00:41:56.340 --> 00:41:56.639
ravine.

897
00:41:56.699 --> 00:42:00.300
Yeah, but we don't, well, we've seen the doctor threatening him

898
00:42:00.300 --> 00:42:00.719
haven't we?

899
00:42:00.780 --> 00:42:05.760
So we don't, you know, like, this scene is entirely pointless.

900
00:42:05.820 --> 00:42:08.760
It's just here to show that Chewbok is in fact investigating this

901
00:42:08.760 --> 00:42:09.239
mystery.

902
00:42:09.300 --> 00:42:13.380
Oh, look, and here's Chakotay with his lines for the week, his 3

903
00:42:13.380 --> 00:42:13.920
lines.

904
00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:18.539
I think he only has one actually, you know.

905
00:42:21.599 --> 00:42:23.519
He's given it his all, though.

906
00:42:23.519 --> 00:42:24.300
That's it.

907
00:42:24.360 --> 00:42:25.800
He's gone, too, Bobby.

908
00:42:25.860 --> 00:42:26.880
See you next week.

909
00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:29.820
We should like this more, really.

910
00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:32.400
We're only focussing on the main Robert, aren't we?

911
00:42:32.460 --> 00:42:33.360
Yeah exactly.

912
00:42:33.420 --> 00:42:34.559
The good Robert.

913
00:42:35.639 --> 00:42:37.860
It's so sad.

914
00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:40.559
Kes is about to discover Balanat Torres paralysed.

915
00:42:40.619 --> 00:42:41.460
Yeah.

916
00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:44.639
I mean, we cut away, but nothing terrible happens to her, right?

917
00:42:44.699 --> 00:42:45.960
No, yeah, yeah.

918
00:42:46.019 --> 00:42:47.400
No, nothing terrible.

919
00:42:47.460 --> 00:42:49.320
This is still 90s true.

920
00:42:49.380 --> 00:42:54.119
You know, that's that saying that, you know, like there are more

921
00:42:54.119 --> 00:43:00.599
uh, there are more CEOs of major companies called John than there

922
00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:03.480
are female CEOs.

923
00:43:03.539 --> 00:43:06.780
And here it's like there's as many people called Robert in the

924
00:43:06.780 --> 00:43:08.400
cast as there are women.

925
00:43:09.539 --> 00:43:12.960
We're talking over this grotesque scene.

926
00:43:13.019 --> 00:43:15.059
It's not grotesque.

927
00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:18.960
So, wait, what has he done to Lord Byron?

928
00:43:19.019 --> 00:43:24.239
So you've got you've got Gandhi's head, oh, look, Lord Byron's

929
00:43:24.239 --> 00:43:28.019
head is full of... is spinning, which I think is hilarious.

930
00:43:28.139 --> 00:43:30.000
Archimedes or whoever the fuck it is.

931
00:43:30.059 --> 00:43:32.039
Byron's head bulging?

932
00:43:32.099 --> 00:43:33.239
He's in half.

933
00:43:33.300 --> 00:43:36.000
Um, a hello case.

934
00:43:36.059 --> 00:43:39.420
Well, in the original script, I was just planning to dissect you

935
00:43:39.420 --> 00:43:43.079
while lots of other youths stood around in the holodeck, but

936
00:43:43.079 --> 00:43:45.000
Manosky said we weren't going to do that.

937
00:43:45.059 --> 00:43:48.659
I feel like Byron's, you know, entrail should be.

938
00:43:48.659 --> 00:43:51.059
Yeah, well, they're not going to do that, are they?

939
00:43:51.119 --> 00:43:56.159
But I do think that the half, you know, that they've split the

940
00:43:56.159 --> 00:43:59.159
Greek philosopher in half and he's literally hollow.

941
00:43:59.219 --> 00:44:01.079
Like there's nothing inside him.

942
00:44:01.139 --> 00:44:03.179
There's just his whatever he's wearing.

943
00:44:03.239 --> 00:44:04.320
I think that's pretty cool.

944
00:44:04.380 --> 00:44:09.119
But like, if they're going to do horror, and this is sort of

945
00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:10.079
trying to be a horror.

946
00:44:10.139 --> 00:44:10.920
Yeah.

947
00:44:10.980 --> 00:44:13.980
Well, then should they bother if they can't make it horrific?

948
00:44:14.039 --> 00:44:18.780
Well, I think they probably could, but they're not skilled enough

949
00:44:18.780 --> 00:44:19.980
to work around what they have.

950
00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:22.800
I think there's a few moments in Knight is Trek where they

951
00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:23.219
succeed.

952
00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:24.840
There's not many, but there's a few.

953
00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:29.699
There's a wonderful bit in Empoc Nor where it's, which is

954
00:44:29.699 --> 00:44:31.260
essentially quite camp and silly.

955
00:44:31.320 --> 00:44:33.659
But it's lit brilliantly.

956
00:44:33.719 --> 00:44:37.260
It kind of lit by Mike Vajar is a great director.

957
00:44:37.320 --> 00:44:41.340
And there's a sequence where there's a bowling kid who's like

958
00:44:41.340 --> 00:44:42.539
looking at something.

959
00:44:42.539 --> 00:44:46.199
And suddenly this Kardashian comes smashing through glass and

960
00:44:46.199 --> 00:44:50.519
grabs him by the neck and it's really scary for like a half a

961
00:44:50.519 --> 00:44:50.820
second.

962
00:44:50.880 --> 00:44:56.460
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, like when discovering came back

963
00:44:56.460 --> 00:45:02.219
for series one, it was much more prepared to do things that

964
00:45:02.219 --> 00:45:04.079
weren't PG.

965
00:45:04.139 --> 00:45:08.219
And so you did have, you know, Tory from Battlestar Galactica

966
00:45:08.219 --> 00:45:11.880
getting her guts ripped out by a tardigrade.

967
00:45:11.940 --> 00:45:12.960
And there's that whole scene.

968
00:45:13.019 --> 00:45:16.199
There's that whole episode where they're wandering around

969
00:45:16.199 --> 00:45:20.699
Discovery sistership and being hunted by the Tardigrade.

970
00:45:20.820 --> 00:45:23.400
I must have said this before, maybe when we were talking before.

971
00:45:23.460 --> 00:45:25.800
I thought there was an episode of Enterprise, and I know you can

972
00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:27.719
disagree with this, because you watched it, and I don't think you

973
00:45:27.719 --> 00:45:31.559
liked it, where they're on a Vulcan ship, and they're all like

974
00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:34.739
psychotic, and it's kind of done in this very sort of

975
00:45:34.739 --> 00:45:36.599
hallucinogenic way.

976
00:45:36.659 --> 00:45:38.400
So you're never quite sure.

977
00:45:38.460 --> 00:45:40.860
It's a bit walking dead, isn't it, where they're all zombies?

978
00:45:40.920 --> 00:45:43.079
Yeah, I thought it was a little bit shit.

979
00:45:43.079 --> 00:45:46.500
And I thought they kind of pushed it as far as they were willing

980
00:45:46.500 --> 00:45:46.980
to go there.

981
00:45:47.039 --> 00:45:48.119
Yeah.

982
00:45:48.239 --> 00:45:52.800
Yeah, I mean, episode 9 was it?

983
00:45:52.860 --> 00:45:57.360
of Strange New Worlds was actually properly scary in a sort of

984
00:45:57.360 --> 00:45:59.639
fairly trad alien's way.

985
00:45:59.699 --> 00:46:04.559
And it, you know, so modern Star Trek can do scary, but it's got

986
00:46:04.559 --> 00:46:08.219
more things that it can do, where here we're basically in sort of

987
00:46:08.219 --> 00:46:12.840
well lit sets, just talking, and we've got to try and create

988
00:46:12.840 --> 00:46:13.860
something scary out of that.

989
00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:19.619
Well, basically, I think bourbon trek at its height, TNG, uh, DS9

990
00:46:19.619 --> 00:46:22.860
Voyager, it's all going to be down to the performance, isn't it?

991
00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:26.219
It's not going to be down to, you know, whether they're selling it

992
00:46:26.219 --> 00:46:27.539
through atmosphere and things like that.

993
00:46:27.840 --> 00:46:30.300
So like Tim Ross in...

994
00:46:30.300 --> 00:46:32.099
Uh, Mild.

995
00:46:32.159 --> 00:46:34.739
That's very scary because he's really intense.

996
00:46:34.860 --> 00:46:40.260
Do you know what I think actually is has the scariest modes in

997
00:46:40.260 --> 00:46:41.460
Star Trek the Next Generation?

998
00:46:42.239 --> 00:46:43.800
Go on.

999
00:46:43.860 --> 00:46:45.000
Genesis.

1000
00:46:45.900 --> 00:46:48.480
I think I don't think you're wrong actually.

1001
00:46:48.539 --> 00:46:50.280
Yeah, are you talking about the spider?

1002
00:46:50.340 --> 00:46:51.000
Yeah, yeah.

1003
00:46:51.059 --> 00:46:54.420
No, but also wharf, like when wharf opens his mouth and just

1004
00:46:54.420 --> 00:46:57.599
suddenly spits the poison into Beverly's face and she screams.

1005
00:46:57.719 --> 00:46:59.519
Yeah, she screams.

1006
00:46:59.579 --> 00:47:00.360
Yeah, yeah.

1007
00:47:00.420 --> 00:47:04.800
And there's jump scarce and stuff in that. directed by Gaze McFad

1008
00:47:04.800 --> 00:47:05.519
in that episode.

1009
00:47:05.579 --> 00:47:07.260
It's terrible.

1010
00:47:08.219 --> 00:47:11.340
I mean, there's a sequence where they go to the bridge, right?

1011
00:47:11.400 --> 00:47:16.019
And it's in the half dark and the person's at the console and

1012
00:47:16.019 --> 00:47:19.260
their whole stomach's torn out and the camera just very quickly

1013
00:47:19.260 --> 00:47:20.940
goes past it.

1014
00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:22.199
Yeah.

1015
00:47:22.500 --> 00:47:23.880
Yeah.

1016
00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:28.199
I think Brandon Bragger did like a bit of body horror and he

1017
00:47:28.199 --> 00:47:30.719
pushed it as far as they probably were willing to let him.

1018
00:47:31.199 --> 00:47:34.139
Yeah, but yeah, yeah.

1019
00:47:34.199 --> 00:47:38.219
But they, I mean, this, this is really funny in the way that it's

1020
00:47:38.219 --> 00:47:44.940
written like a Gothic horror, which I think really requires, I

1021
00:47:44.940 --> 00:47:48.960
think the story to work on any level requires him to plummet off

1022
00:47:48.960 --> 00:47:53.579
the ravine with her to their deaths, you know, and that's a, you

1023
00:47:53.579 --> 00:47:58.440
know, melodramatic and grotesque and operatic kind of conclusion

1024
00:47:58.440 --> 00:48:02.340
which is the sort of aesthetic that we'd kind of be going for.

1025
00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:06.659
And I do think that it's absolutely written that the fact that

1026
00:48:06.659 --> 00:48:10.739
this is just a Star Trek episode means that we get to escape that

1027
00:48:10.739 --> 00:48:11.579
conclusion.

1028
00:48:11.639 --> 00:48:14.880
It's not that anyone outwits anyone or, you know, anyone's

1029
00:48:14.880 --> 00:48:16.079
persuaded or anything.

1030
00:48:16.139 --> 00:48:18.659
It's just like, we have a teleport.

1031
00:48:18.719 --> 00:48:21.719
What is it, a transporter, and this is Star Trek.

1032
00:48:21.780 --> 00:48:24.360
And so Star Trek wins the day over the Gothic horror.

1033
00:48:24.420 --> 00:48:27.119
But like, this isn't him.

1034
00:48:27.179 --> 00:48:31.199
This is him, the character we know of all these extra bits from

1035
00:48:31.199 --> 00:48:33.059
here just for the purposes of this episode.

1036
00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:34.679
So he doesn't learn anything.

1037
00:48:34.739 --> 00:48:36.179
We don't we're not going on a journey.

1038
00:48:36.239 --> 00:48:38.699
We're not he's not developing in any way.

1039
00:48:38.760 --> 00:48:40.679
It's like, what does he learn from this?

1040
00:48:40.739 --> 00:48:44.579
Okay, don't splice other people's personalities into yours.

1041
00:48:44.639 --> 00:48:46.980
Well, great, what a moral.

1042
00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:48.900
I promise I won't do that, you know.

1043
00:48:48.960 --> 00:48:51.840
Well, I think the only person who learns anything.

1044
00:48:51.900 --> 00:48:52.739
Look at Kes.

1045
00:48:52.860 --> 00:48:55.079
So this is the, this is the conversation I was talking about

1046
00:48:55.079 --> 00:48:59.579
before where he says that violence and selfishness and and all of

1047
00:48:59.579 --> 00:49:03.119
those things are fundamental, that they're more fundamental than

1048
00:49:03.119 --> 00:49:07.559
good, and the good is essentially illusory, and what, um, you know

1049
00:49:07.559 --> 00:49:11.820
that what he's discovered, what he's learned from all of these

1050
00:49:11.820 --> 00:49:15.840
great historical figures from the past is that evil is

1051
00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:16.920
fundamental.

1052
00:49:16.980 --> 00:49:20.460
And so that's the conversation that we're having.

1053
00:49:20.519 --> 00:49:25.860
This is a conversation that is, you know, some in some directions

1054
00:49:25.860 --> 00:49:29.099
you know, gesturing towards what Star Trek's about.

1055
00:49:29.159 --> 00:49:30.300
I don't know.

1056
00:49:30.360 --> 00:49:34.920
And that's, that's... mildly, I think.

1057
00:49:35.039 --> 00:49:37.320
I still don't think that's what this episode is about.

1058
00:49:37.380 --> 00:49:38.639
They're touching on it.

1059
00:49:38.699 --> 00:49:42.480
They're talking about it, but it's not really part of the story, is

1060
00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:42.719
it?

1061
00:49:42.780 --> 00:49:48.480
No, but it's sort of gesturing towards that idea that the Gothic

1062
00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:57.420
is about sort of, you know, kind of primal drives and and over the

1063
00:49:57.420 --> 00:49:59.219
top emotions and things like that.

1064
00:49:59.340 --> 00:50:05.099
The, the, you know, that the windswept ravine and stuff is, is a

1065
00:50:05.099 --> 00:50:09.659
venue that reflects, you know, what human beings are like or

1066
00:50:09.659 --> 00:50:10.019
something.

1067
00:50:10.079 --> 00:50:12.179
I'm sort of struggling to express this.

1068
00:50:12.239 --> 00:50:17.039
And so I think it is part of the Gothic horror idea that Hyde

1069
00:50:17.039 --> 00:50:18.239
isn't just a personality.

1070
00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:25.260
He's a discovery about how morality works and he's wrong in case.

1071
00:50:25.320 --> 00:50:26.400
I mean, what we'll say demonstrates that.

1072
00:50:26.460 --> 00:50:28.739
They're trying to, they're trying to add a little bit of

1073
00:50:28.739 --> 00:50:29.340
substance.

1074
00:50:29.639 --> 00:50:32.039
Like we've done episodes of on top of Star Trek Project, about

1075
00:50:32.039 --> 00:50:35.280
dramatis persona, where there's just been nothing at all.

1076
00:50:35.340 --> 00:50:37.199
What is this about?

1077
00:50:37.260 --> 00:50:37.980
What is the theme?

1078
00:50:38.039 --> 00:50:39.179
What are they trying to say?

1079
00:50:39.239 --> 00:50:41.460
What are the characters learning?

1080
00:50:41.519 --> 00:50:43.920
At least they're...

1081
00:50:43.980 --> 00:50:49.079
Yeah, I mean, this isn't much like Jekyll and Hyde, from what I

1082
00:50:49.079 --> 00:50:56.400
know of how that plays out, but what we do is we make a decision

1083
00:50:56.400 --> 00:51:00.659
to let's let Bob be evil this week.

1084
00:51:00.659 --> 00:51:05.340
And, you know, we kind of go, how about we do Jekyll and Hyde?

1085
00:51:05.400 --> 00:51:10.980
And so then they bring in that whole kind of Gothic thing, which I

1086
00:51:10.980 --> 00:51:12.360
think that's interesting.

1087
00:51:12.420 --> 00:51:16.380
That at least is an attempt to do something a little bit

1088
00:51:16.380 --> 00:51:19.800
interesting and to have everything in the episode working in the

1089
00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:20.639
same direction.

1090
00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:25.920
But like in Living Witness, where they're doing, you know, they're

1091
00:51:25.920 --> 00:51:30.300
actually exploring what is the impact if Voyager is misremembered

1092
00:51:30.300 --> 00:51:33.599
as this evil crew on this society?

1093
00:51:33.659 --> 00:51:35.579
And that's really interesting.

1094
00:51:35.639 --> 00:51:43.139
But also that episode is also about how important is the sort of

1095
00:51:43.139 --> 00:51:49.440
historic oppression of a group of people, how much should we pay

1096
00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:51.840
attention to that when we work out how to treat them now.

1097
00:51:51.900 --> 00:51:57.599
And that's an absolutely living issue, you know, in Australia in

1098
00:51:57.599 --> 00:51:58.380
America.

1099
00:51:58.440 --> 00:52:03.179
Um, you know, and so it's got something really properly

1100
00:52:03.179 --> 00:52:04.619
interesting to say.

1101
00:52:04.860 --> 00:52:08.340
This, I think, is sort of aesthetic.

1102
00:52:08.340 --> 00:52:11.519
And because it's Star Trek and Star Trek generally looks...

1103
00:52:11.519 --> 00:52:12.780
Star Trek looks the same.

1104
00:52:12.840 --> 00:52:14.519
Walk it across the top of the ravine.

1105
00:52:14.579 --> 00:52:17.099
Oh, look it, but looking down off the ravine.

1106
00:52:17.159 --> 00:52:17.820
That's pretty great.

1107
00:52:17.880 --> 00:52:19.139
Look at that.

1108
00:52:19.139 --> 00:52:20.699
Look at that photograph of a river down there.

1109
00:52:20.820 --> 00:52:21.480
Yeah, exactly.

1110
00:52:21.480 --> 00:52:26.099
Did you see those polystarian rocks bounce away there as they

1111
00:52:26.099 --> 00:52:26.760
phase at the wall?

1112
00:52:27.119 --> 00:52:29.760
Very impressive, I must say.

1113
00:52:29.820 --> 00:52:32.039
I feel as if I'm watching an episode of Discovery right now.

1114
00:52:32.099 --> 00:52:34.320
Yeah, well, here's the other Robert with a gun.

1115
00:52:34.380 --> 00:52:37.199
You see, you said he just had one line, but other Robert's here

1116
00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:40.380
and he's doing something.

1117
00:52:40.440 --> 00:52:41.760
He's got 5 lines.

1118
00:52:41.820 --> 00:52:43.199
This is a sway for him.

1119
00:52:43.260 --> 00:52:43.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1120
00:52:44.280 --> 00:52:47.579
Yeah, so this is Cass, right?

1121
00:52:47.639 --> 00:52:50.159
I remember screaming at the TV, right?

1122
00:52:50.219 --> 00:52:51.000
when I 1st watched this.

1123
00:52:51.059 --> 00:52:52.679
Well, you just shove her off already.

1124
00:52:52.739 --> 00:53:02.219
No, but here, here she's saying that all of his behaviour isn't

1125
00:53:02.219 --> 00:53:10.139
due to some philosophical conclusion that he's reached, evil isn't

1126
00:53:10.139 --> 00:53:12.599
a, you know, like isn't a force.

1127
00:53:12.659 --> 00:53:15.840
It's just him being an asshole in order to protect her.

1128
00:53:15.960 --> 00:53:20.940
It's actually a fundamentally good emotion that has been perverted

1129
00:53:20.940 --> 00:53:23.159
and has caused this violence.

1130
00:53:23.219 --> 00:53:27.300
And it's the good in him, that is prompting his behaviour.

1131
00:53:27.360 --> 00:53:29.039
But then we get that.

1132
00:53:29.039 --> 00:53:31.920
And he nearly wins the argument.

1133
00:53:31.980 --> 00:53:36.179
And I want to know why they don't just drop onto the transporter.

1134
00:53:36.239 --> 00:53:38.699
Like, they do a little bit of a kind of thing.

1135
00:53:38.760 --> 00:53:39.420
That's a good point.

1136
00:53:41.039 --> 00:53:43.980
The inertial things have cut in.

1137
00:53:44.039 --> 00:53:47.460
Oh, here's Harry giving a line too, which is kind of delightful.

1138
00:53:47.519 --> 00:53:48.119
Look at that.

1139
00:53:49.619 --> 00:53:53.460
I could have just had that transporter woman was doing such good

1140
00:53:53.460 --> 00:53:54.300
work earlier, had they?

1141
00:53:54.300 --> 00:53:55.440
didn't Harry Kim at all?

1142
00:53:55.500 --> 00:53:57.300
No, but he's pretty.

1143
00:53:57.360 --> 00:53:58.079
It's nice to see him.

1144
00:53:58.320 --> 00:54:01.739
It's so interesting because Robert Picardo is in those same

1145
00:54:01.739 --> 00:54:04.320
clothes there when he materialises, but the performance is just so

1146
00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:05.159
different, isn't it?

1147
00:54:05.219 --> 00:54:06.179
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1148
00:54:06.239 --> 00:54:08.519
I just love the doctor.

1149
00:54:08.579 --> 00:54:09.719
I mean, I think this is so shit.

1150
00:54:09.780 --> 00:54:12.300
We're 2 minutes from the end and he just sort of goes, oh, well, I

1151
00:54:12.300 --> 00:54:12.840
won't do that again.

1152
00:54:12.900 --> 00:54:14.639
Yes, I've switched all those off.

1153
00:54:15.300 --> 00:54:19.079
Until the next time he decides to, because do you remember, I

1154
00:54:19.079 --> 00:54:19.980
don't know if you recall.

1155
00:54:20.039 --> 00:54:24.059
It was him trying to better himself in the dementia episode as

1156
00:54:24.059 --> 00:54:24.239
well.

1157
00:54:24.300 --> 00:54:27.059
Every time he does this, it always goes horribly wrong.

1158
00:54:27.119 --> 00:54:31.019
It always leads to a whole episode of Voyager and nobody wants

1159
00:54:31.019 --> 00:54:31.320
that.

1160
00:54:31.679 --> 00:54:35.340
Although it does have that wonderful scene of him with the opera

1161
00:54:35.340 --> 00:54:35.820
diva.

1162
00:54:35.880 --> 00:54:36.300
Do you remember?

1163
00:54:38.519 --> 00:54:40.199
Oh, great.

1164
00:54:40.800 --> 00:54:45.119
Oh, look, she loves the doctor.

1165
00:54:45.179 --> 00:54:46.260
Bless her.

1166
00:54:46.980 --> 00:54:51.239
Which makes it very bizarre when she comes back in fury in series

1167
00:54:51.239 --> 00:54:52.739
6 and tries to kill everybody.

1168
00:54:52.800 --> 00:54:53.880
Yeah, yeah.

1169
00:54:53.940 --> 00:54:55.199
Stupid.

1170
00:54:55.260 --> 00:54:58.139
Also written by Brandon Bragger, of course.

1171
00:54:58.199 --> 00:55:02.820
And and then she just decides to stay why?

1172
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:04.139
Because.

1173
00:55:05.460 --> 00:55:07.320
She's had her fun.

1174
00:55:07.380 --> 00:55:08.820
Well, maybe.

1175
00:55:08.820 --> 00:55:12.840
The doctor has proven just how much he cares for her. don't know.

1176
00:55:12.900 --> 00:55:15.059
I don't think the episode's coming to any great conclusion.

1177
00:55:15.119 --> 00:55:17.460
I don't think it is either, and that's probably...

1178
00:55:17.579 --> 00:55:18.599
You realise what's happened?

1179
00:55:18.659 --> 00:55:20.639
You what's happened, don't you?

1180
00:55:20.699 --> 00:55:23.820
45 minutes have passed so we can just forget about this now.

1181
00:55:23.880 --> 00:55:24.960
Well, essentially.

1182
00:55:25.019 --> 00:55:28.860
And then this is a bit shit where he just recites the Hippocratic

1183
00:55:28.860 --> 00:55:33.239
oath as he walks around the table looking very actively there

1184
00:55:33.239 --> 00:55:33.420
Bob.

1185
00:55:37.500 --> 00:55:39.719
Yeah, you can wash it a bit.

1186
00:55:39.780 --> 00:55:40.559
Patrick Stewart.

1187
00:55:40.619 --> 00:55:41.519
Really?

1188
00:55:41.519 --> 00:55:45.000
And then it ended.

1189
00:55:45.059 --> 00:55:46.199
Yeah, yeah.

1190
00:55:46.260 --> 00:55:49.739
And I'll tell you what, the best part of that was, is we don't

1191
00:55:49.739 --> 00:55:50.699
have to do this episode again.

1192
00:55:50.760 --> 00:55:51.960
No, that's true.

1193
00:55:51.960 --> 00:55:56.579
And will you notice that they've spelt Gandhi's name wrong in the

1194
00:55:56.579 --> 00:55:57.780
club?

1195
00:55:57.840 --> 00:55:58.440
No.

1196
00:55:58.440 --> 00:55:59.340
Oh, no.

1197
00:56:02.039 --> 00:56:03.059
That's embarrassing.

1198
00:56:03.059 --> 00:56:04.260
Oh wow.

1199
00:56:04.320 --> 00:56:06.239
I wonder if it's wrong all through the script.

1200
00:56:06.300 --> 00:56:07.260
I bet you it is.

1201
00:56:08.099 --> 00:56:10.380
No, no, don't get me wrong.

1202
00:56:10.440 --> 00:56:15.059
I think you did a very game attempt there at giving that a little

1203
00:56:15.059 --> 00:56:17.519
bit of weight, a little bit of weight.

1204
00:56:18.239 --> 00:56:20.280
I don't think it's a disaster.

1205
00:56:20.340 --> 00:56:23.940
I feel like I need to take you to task at this point, okay?

1206
00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:27.780
Because like, you can be a bit contrarian at times on this

1207
00:56:27.780 --> 00:56:28.079
podcast.

1208
00:56:28.079 --> 00:56:32.159
Sometimes, staying at the scene of AR 558 is terrible.

1209
00:56:32.219 --> 00:56:35.219
And in the pale moonlight, it's not as good as people say.

1210
00:56:36.179 --> 00:56:37.920
96 Bay.

1211
00:56:37.920 --> 00:56:39.960
It's actually not bad. work of genius.

1212
00:56:40.019 --> 00:56:42.539
Well, I didn't say that, but it's pretty good.

1213
00:56:43.079 --> 00:56:51.119
You look, I I can see how Doc Oho would have been kind of worn

1214
00:56:51.119 --> 00:56:56.820
down by making his way through series 3 if it's all like this.

1215
00:56:56.880 --> 00:57:02.579
It's all kind of mildly diverting high concept stuff that has sort

1216
00:57:02.579 --> 00:57:03.659
of been done before.

1217
00:57:03.719 --> 00:57:07.079
I think that's kind of what we're doing, isn't it, at this point?

1218
00:57:07.139 --> 00:57:12.059
And when Voyager is good, it leans into the premise and does

1219
00:57:12.059 --> 00:57:13.380
interesting things.

1220
00:57:13.380 --> 00:57:18.000
And it does do that, I think, more often than maybe we give it

1221
00:57:18.000 --> 00:57:18.480
credit for.

1222
00:57:19.079 --> 00:57:23.940
I think if I went back and watched season 3 now, I would probably

1223
00:57:23.940 --> 00:57:25.079
see more of worth in it.

1224
00:57:25.139 --> 00:57:28.079
Like, I've certainly gone back and watched episodes like sacred

1225
00:57:28.079 --> 00:57:32.579
ground, the one where Janeway goes through those bizarre rituals

1226
00:57:32.579 --> 00:57:37.320
on that planet and it's religion versus science. remember that

1227
00:57:37.320 --> 00:57:37.500
one?

1228
00:57:37.559 --> 00:57:42.059
And she's all science and she doesn't believe in it.

1229
00:57:42.059 --> 00:57:44.579
And then she goes on this weird spiritual experience.

1230
00:57:44.579 --> 00:57:47.820
And at the end, they're all talking tetanobabble and the camera

1231
00:57:47.820 --> 00:57:52.500
just lingers on her and you know she's had a bit of an epiphany.

1232
00:57:52.559 --> 00:57:55.860
But when I 1st watched it back in the day. along with all the

1233
00:57:55.860 --> 00:57:56.280
others.

1234
00:57:56.340 --> 00:57:59.340
I was just like, oh, this is another tedious.

1235
00:57:59.400 --> 00:58:01.619
So I think if I went back and watched it, I would see a lot more.

1236
00:58:01.679 --> 00:58:03.659
There's some things in there like future's end.

1237
00:58:03.719 --> 00:58:07.860
Remember, unity, distant origin.

1238
00:58:07.920 --> 00:58:11.340
There are some good episodes in there, but on the whole, it's a

1239
00:58:11.340 --> 00:58:11.760
bit flat.

1240
00:58:11.820 --> 00:58:15.840
I think it is probably the worst example for me of just knocking

1241
00:58:15.840 --> 00:58:17.699
them out for a year.

1242
00:58:24.900 --> 00:58:28.920
Alright, it's time for us to decide what we're going to watch next

1243
00:58:28.920 --> 00:58:30.119
time.

1244
00:58:30.179 --> 00:58:35.039
And in honour of the journey that you've recently been taking Joe

1245
00:58:35.039 --> 00:58:41.820
which is catching up on lower decks, I think that we should choose

1246
00:58:41.820 --> 00:58:42.840
a lower decks episode.

1247
00:58:42.900 --> 00:58:43.860
Oh, great.

1248
00:58:43.980 --> 00:58:48.300
Well, I can finally talk about it with a bit of detail, you know

1249
00:58:48.300 --> 00:58:49.559
now I'm in the loop.

1250
00:58:49.619 --> 00:58:51.059
It's so fun.

1251
00:58:51.119 --> 00:58:54.960
You know, like, I think that the Voyager that we just watched aims

1252
00:58:54.960 --> 00:58:58.800
to be kind of agreeable and watchable and to pass the time.

1253
00:58:58.860 --> 00:59:00.840
I think it probably does do that.

1254
00:59:00.900 --> 00:59:06.840
And I think this is really watchable and really agreeable but it

1255
00:59:06.840 --> 00:59:09.119
has the added benefit of actually being good.

1256
00:59:09.179 --> 00:59:10.679
And so...

1257
00:59:10.679 --> 00:59:14.159
I think I think lower decks actually shows up a lot of the rest of

1258
00:59:14.159 --> 00:59:18.480
Star Trek by being so consistently good.

1259
00:59:18.539 --> 00:59:21.300
It's not always great, but it's always good.

1260
00:59:21.659 --> 00:59:26.099
I can't think of a terrible episode, whereas, you know, you give

1261
00:59:26.099 --> 00:59:28.500
me any other Star Trek show and I'll pull 10 out of a hat.

1262
00:59:28.619 --> 00:59:30.360
That's right That's right.

1263
00:59:30.420 --> 00:59:31.800
No, I think it's really fun.

1264
00:59:31.860 --> 00:59:33.059
So I'm looking forward to this.

1265
00:59:33.119 --> 00:59:37.739
There's not one member of the cast that I don't like, either

1266
00:59:37.739 --> 00:59:38.099
either.

1267
00:59:38.159 --> 00:59:40.619
Both the characters and the actors.

1268
00:59:40.739 --> 00:59:41.460
Yeah.

1269
00:59:41.460 --> 00:59:43.199
The actors do brilliant work.

1270
00:59:43.260 --> 00:59:46.619
All the main characters are fun and likeable.

1271
00:59:46.679 --> 00:59:49.199
Even when they behave in appalling ways.

1272
00:59:49.260 --> 00:59:51.239
Yeah, well, that's the cartoon.

1273
00:59:51.239 --> 00:59:52.440
Do you know my new favourite is?

1274
00:59:52.500 --> 00:59:53.219
I love shacks.

1275
00:59:53.280 --> 00:59:54.719
It's great.

1276
00:59:54.780 --> 01:00:00.480
And the episode where he got to, the warp core was so funny when

1277
01:00:00.480 --> 01:00:03.599
he was running through the corridors going, this is my moment.

1278
01:00:03.659 --> 01:00:05.039
Thank you, thank you.

1279
01:00:06.119 --> 01:00:08.099
She goes, what is it?

1280
01:00:08.219 --> 01:00:10.800
He's always trying to eject the war call.

1281
01:00:10.860 --> 01:00:11.760
No, wait.

1282
01:00:11.820 --> 01:00:13.500
That's a great idea.

1283
01:00:15.119 --> 01:00:16.800
So much fun.

1284
01:00:16.860 --> 01:00:18.239
All right.

1285
01:00:18.300 --> 01:00:18.840
Okay.

1286
01:00:18.900 --> 01:00:19.920
I've got it selected.

1287
01:00:19.980 --> 01:00:25.440
I'm going to press the button and oh, we've actually rolled this

1288
01:00:25.440 --> 01:00:25.679
before.

1289
01:00:25.739 --> 01:00:29.639
Your random Star Trek Lower Decks episode is room for growth.

1290
01:00:30.179 --> 01:00:32.699
Season 3, episode 4.

1291
01:00:32.940 --> 01:00:38.280
So it's the one where the engineering crew are overworked and they

1292
01:00:38.280 --> 01:00:42.420
go to the spa, and then there's a B plot, and I can't remember

1293
01:00:42.420 --> 01:00:42.960
what it is.

1294
01:00:43.619 --> 01:00:47.400
I want you to bring up an embarrassment of duplers.

1295
01:00:48.179 --> 01:00:50.039
Sublimely good.

1296
01:00:50.099 --> 01:00:51.059
So great.

1297
01:00:51.179 --> 01:00:52.260
All right, here goes.

1298
01:00:52.440 --> 01:00:55.980
Cupid's errant arrow, which we've already done.

1299
01:00:56.099 --> 01:00:57.900
Episode 40.

1300
01:00:58.079 --> 01:01:00.960
The least dangerous game.

1301
01:01:01.019 --> 01:01:03.420
Season 3, episode two.

1302
01:01:03.480 --> 01:01:07.980
I think it might be the one where Boimler decides to be bold

1303
01:01:07.980 --> 01:01:08.880
Boimler.

1304
01:01:08.940 --> 01:01:10.920
He decides to accept lots of opportunity.

1305
01:01:10.980 --> 01:01:13.079
Oh, that's terrific.

1306
01:01:13.139 --> 01:01:14.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1307
01:01:15.000 --> 01:01:17.639
And he ends up being hunted through the shit.

1308
01:01:19.320 --> 01:01:21.300
It's really funny.

1309
01:01:21.360 --> 01:01:27.179
Oh, and it's the one that has the rise thing happening as the

1310
01:01:27.179 --> 01:01:28.440
other plot, isn't it?

1311
01:01:28.559 --> 01:01:34.139
The other plot is that on the planet Delane and there's a, what do

1312
01:01:34.139 --> 01:01:34.500
we call it?

1313
01:01:34.559 --> 01:01:39.000
Like a maglev lift and like a tether, and that is a pretty good

1314
01:01:39.000 --> 01:01:39.239
one.

1315
01:01:39.300 --> 01:01:40.440
That's great.

1316
01:01:40.500 --> 01:01:41.280
Let's do that.

1317
01:01:41.340 --> 01:01:43.440
And it'd be nice to do one in the latest season as well.

1318
01:01:43.500 --> 01:01:44.280
Yeah.

1319
01:01:44.340 --> 01:01:44.880
Yeah.

1320
01:01:44.940 --> 01:01:45.659
All right.

1321
01:01:45.659 --> 01:01:50.880
The thing with Lower Dex is, it's, it's, what I love is they are

1322
01:01:50.880 --> 01:01:51.719
short episodes.

1323
01:01:51.780 --> 01:01:54.119
So they never outstay their welcome.

1324
01:01:54.179 --> 01:01:59.159
But that's bad for us. because we only get 20 minutes to talk

1325
01:01:59.159 --> 01:01:59.880
about.

1326
01:02:00.480 --> 01:02:06.719
Well, normally we come in at about sort of 35 to 40 minutes on a

1327
01:02:06.719 --> 01:02:07.739
lower decks episode.

1328
01:02:07.800 --> 01:02:09.119
So we'll have things to talk about.

1329
01:02:09.179 --> 01:02:11.940
But it's a really enjoyable episode.

1330
01:02:12.000 --> 01:02:17.159
So that is series three, episode two. the least dangerous game

1331
01:02:17.219 --> 01:02:18.119
can't wait.

1332
01:02:27.900 --> 01:02:32.159
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

1333
01:02:32.159 --> 01:02:33.300
and Nathan Bottomley.

1334
01:02:33.360 --> 01:02:36.539
We're online at untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find

1335
01:02:36.539 --> 01:02:39.420
links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

1336
01:02:39.480 --> 01:02:42.840
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Sisrin, and the theme was composed

1337
01:02:42.840 --> 01:02:43.980
by Cameron Lamb.

1338
01:02:44.039 --> 01:02:48.360
This episode was recorded on the 16th of January 2023 and released

1339
01:02:48.360 --> 01:02:49.860
on the 20th of January.

1340
01:02:49.920 --> 01:02:53.579
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Lower Decks, the least

1341
01:02:53.579 --> 01:02:54.840
dangerous game.

1342
01:04:15.900 --> 01:04:21.840
You know, if you, like, like with aspirin, if we crumble it up and

1343
01:04:21.840 --> 01:04:25.500
put it on the side of where the tooth is, right, actually helps

1344
01:04:25.500 --> 01:04:26.340
like it's local.

1345
01:04:26.400 --> 01:04:27.960
Yeah, I'll try that actually.

1346
01:04:27.960 --> 01:04:36.360
Because it's, um, that's a like millennia old trick because it's

1347
01:04:36.360 --> 01:04:37.920
Willow, Salicylic acid.

1348
01:04:37.980 --> 01:04:40.679
It comes from the willow bark and so that people have been using

1349
01:04:40.679 --> 01:04:42.059
that for teeth for age.

1350
01:04:42.119 --> 01:04:47.159
Well, I've never heard of aspirin before, aspirin.

1351
01:04:47.219 --> 01:04:50.340
And I went to school almost an hour a week.

1352
01:04:51.179 --> 01:04:52.860
What's that?

1353
01:04:52.920 --> 01:04:54.420
What's that?

1354
01:04:54.420 --> 01:04:55.139
The world planet.

1355
01:04:56.219 --> 01:04:59.699
Oh, you wouldn't buck it if I wanted to stick leeches all over

1356
01:04:59.699 --> 01:04:59.880
you.

1357
01:05:00.719 --> 01:05:03.300
That's been before.

1358
01:05:03.360 --> 01:05:05.400
That's great.

1359
01:05:05.460 --> 01:05:08.579
Isn't it great that a kid's show says sitting in the future, you

1360
01:05:08.579 --> 01:05:11.280
only have to go to school for an hour a week and you become a

1361
01:05:11.280 --> 01:05:13.019
genius space kid.

1362
01:05:13.079 --> 01:05:14.400
That's right So good.

1363
01:05:14.579 --> 01:05:16.139
So great.

1364
01:05:16.199 --> 01:05:20.159
We did the 3 holes. reading, writing, arithmetic.

1365
01:05:20.219 --> 01:05:21.780
My nan used to say that to me.

1366
01:05:22.199 --> 01:05:24.840
Yeah, yeah, that's the thing.

1367
01:05:24.900 --> 01:05:28.139
I'll be like, well, you weren't educating them well then

1368
01:05:28.199 --> 01:05:30.420
arithmetic. arithmetic.

1369
01:05:30.480 --> 01:05:31.500
Yeah.

1370
01:05:31.559 --> 01:05:35.280
Oh, well, writing isn't really an R either.

1371
01:05:35.400 --> 01:05:38.699
Um, punch me or something, that might help.

1372
01:05:38.760 --> 01:05:40.440
I should jab it out.

1373
01:05:40.500 --> 01:05:44.340
It's literally this tooth, this wisdom tooth is half hanging on.

1374
01:05:44.460 --> 01:05:45.719
I just need to have it out.

1375
01:05:46.500 --> 01:05:50.639
I had horrible wisdom teeth experiences.

1376
01:05:50.699 --> 01:05:52.679
No, I didn't.

1377
01:05:52.679 --> 01:05:56.280
They did a root canal and it's clearly gone horribly wrong because

1378
01:05:56.280 --> 01:05:58.139
it's made the tooth disintegrate.

1379
01:05:58.619 --> 01:06:00.780
No, I had them, mum.

1380
01:06:01.019 --> 01:06:06.179
Uh, like I either pulled out, but they were so desperate to stay

1381
01:06:06.179 --> 01:06:10.260
that he was like smashing it up while it was in my jaw and pulling

1382
01:06:10.260 --> 01:06:11.460
bits of it on.

1383
01:06:11.519 --> 01:06:14.340
And I was there for like ages.

1384
01:06:14.340 --> 01:06:15.840
So phobic of the dentist.

1385
01:06:15.900 --> 01:06:18.059
You need to stop right now.

1386
01:06:18.179 --> 01:06:19.920
I'll never go.

1387
01:06:21.059 --> 01:06:23.880
Yeah, it was the thing, but it's all gone.

1388
01:06:23.940 --> 01:06:27.300
But I sort of lived in terror of it for like 10 years because I

1389
01:06:27.300 --> 01:06:30.599
knew that at some point, because I had 2 of them done and thought

1390
01:06:30.599 --> 01:06:31.679
actually, fuck it, I'm not.

1391
01:06:32.400 --> 01:06:37.079
And then at one point I said, put me to sleep, you know, like give

1392
01:06:37.079 --> 01:06:39.780
me a, like put me out for it and just do it.

1393
01:06:39.840 --> 01:06:42.840
And then the dentist said, yeah, no, that tends to be bad because

1394
01:06:42.840 --> 01:06:49.199
because you're not awake, you end up being kind of a bit beaten up

1395
01:06:49.199 --> 01:06:50.400
because, do you know what I mean?

1396
01:06:50.460 --> 01:06:54.059
you're not resisting and you're not, you know, like, so it tends

1397
01:06:54.059 --> 01:06:54.539
to be worse.

1398
01:06:57.599 --> 01:06:58.559
Yeah.

1399
01:06:58.860 --> 01:07:01.320
That was painful as this episode.

1400
01:07:01.380 --> 01:07:02.460
I was like, stop now.

1401
01:07:02.820 --> 01:07:05.219
I know you'd quite like this.

1402
01:07:05.280 --> 01:07:07.260
Well, I thought it was all right.

1403
01:07:07.980 --> 01:07:10.860
Anyway, I'll say, I'll say what I think.

1404
01:07:13.980 --> 01:07:14.519
Should we do it?

1405
01:07:20.579 --> 01:07:22.920
Hey, Joe. Hi.