WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 21:30:55

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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This is a bit of an exciting moment for us because we are actually

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watching a two-part enterprise story from series four.

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It's the 1st time we've strayed out of series one and series two

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and it's the 1st time I've ever watched any series 4 of Enterprise

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at all.

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And I actually thought it was pretty good.

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I think this is for enterprise.

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And that is a big caveat there.

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Very good.

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Yeah.

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I think I think it where sort of putting it in comparison to the

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rest of Star Trek.

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It's just good.

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Yeah, I think it's just good.

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I think it does do things that only enterprise can do.

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And it does cover some ground that we might have had before, but

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we'll talk about that as we sort of go in.

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But, you know, we actually rolled these are the voyages at the end

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of last episode, didn't we, and decided not to do it, and then got

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this instead.

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And I'm kind of glad of that because I think this does actually

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form a fairly solid final episode and it sort of says what we've

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been doing all this time and why we're here in a way that I think

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is reasonably satisfying, if not sort of technically brilliant.

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Oh, you know, I thought it was okay.

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Like you said to me on the chart.

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This is uniquely enterprise as well.

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Like only Enterprise could tell this story.

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I'm pretty pleased we didn't roll, these are the voyages because I

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watched that after this.

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And I'm not sure you could possibly be prepared for the profanity

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that I would express if we were doing a commentary for that one

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but can I drop a tiny bit of trivia, always, a quote from Manicoso

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about these 2 episodes?

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Because I think there's a bit of a discussion about whether this

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is the enterprise finale or whether these are the voyages or the

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enterprise finale.

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And as far as I can tell, the production team considered demons

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and Terra Prime to be the enterprise finale and these are the

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voyages to be the sort of the 90s trek. finale.

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So Koto says, I really like those episodes.

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My heart was really in that because I felt it was a fitting end

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for the series.

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The show ended up coming back to the earth, and to our solar

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system, and the idea that humanity still had one hurdle to go

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through, and that was a part of humanity, was not accepting of

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aliens and aliens in our world because some people felt we were

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being corrupted.

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We had to exercise our last vestige of xenophobia.

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I thought it was a really fitting end for enterprise because one

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of the basic tenets of Star Trek is infinite diversity in infinite

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combinations.

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This was a way to address that idea that we not quite reach there

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yet.

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You had a character played by Peter Weller, who wanted aliens to

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leave the earth and was against comingling with aliens.

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And we ended up with a wonderful speech by Captain Archer, and a

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wonderful performance by Scott Bacula in front of the Nascent

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Federation, which kind of laid down the idea for Star Trek.

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Yeah.

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So that's what they were going for here.

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Then he's asked about these are the voyages.

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And he says not to deride these are the voyages.

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We, Brandon, Rick and I always looked at Demons and Terra Prime as

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the finale for Enterprise.

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And these are the voyages was intended to be a finale for the

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entire 18 year run of Star Trek, starting with NextGen, and all

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the ways to Enterprise.

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So this is it.

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This is, this is, Enterprises, what you leave behind, Endgame, you

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know, this is, this is their ending.

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Yeah, and I think, you know, one of the things that I like about

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modern trek is that it foregrounds, those principles.

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And in fact, you know, this makes me think of, you know, not just

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the Terran Empire, who is kind of suggested by Tara Prime.

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That's where we end up if the Terra Prime.

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People win.

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I know that's not true because the timeline diverges before 1st

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contact, according to this show, but the Terran Empire is

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xenophobic and so on.

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We had that as the major theme of Picard series 2.

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You know, there was a big choice that was going to take place in

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2024 and are we going to reject aliens and regard them as

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enemies?

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Are we going to be the Confederation or the Federation?

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And so that's what's being addressed here.

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And given the kind of discomfort that Braga and Berman had with

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those ideas and how little they seem to enjoy kind of centring

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them, I thought it was really refreshing for Enterprise to do

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this.

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And I think it did it reasonably well.

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Yeah, I agree.

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Interestingly, there's the two part Mirror Universe episode

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directly before this.

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Oh, it shows you, it kind of shows you the direction we could have

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gone in in a very crazy comic book way with a runaround on the

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original series defiant with a gone and things like that.

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So I've also got a quote here from Rick Berman.

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Okay.

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I want to sort of dig into a little bit about why he thought

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the...

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Yeah.

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And he says, it's kind of something you said to me before as

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well.

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The fact that we've done 624 hours of Star Trek over the last 18

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years.

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There's a point where you can reach a sense of overkill.

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It's probably a good idea to lay fallow for a while and

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rejuvenate.

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Franchise fatigue is how he describes it.

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Yeah.

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You could kind of point at enterprise and save franchise for city

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couldn't you?

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Oh yeah, I think so.

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And I think we've made that point before.

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And when we did generations, we could see it in evidence too, that

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it was in desperate need of some new blood.

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And one of the ways that, you know, again, Kurtzman Trek has dealt

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with that is by having different creative teams on all of the

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different shows and giving the shows each a sort of distinct

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identity.

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So it doesn't seem like the sort of thing you can run out of.

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And, of course, just in a few weeks' time, maybe just over a

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month.

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We're going to get the final season, probably, of Picard, which

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means that they're happy to end things before they get tired

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rather than long, long afterwards.

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I don't mean to be improper.

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But before, you know, we start losing some of the cast.

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Well, yeah, there's that too.

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That's that too.

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Yeah, I mean, enterprise has always been a bit touch and go, hasn't

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it?

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You know, like they clearly do the Zindiak in series 3 because

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they're worried that the show isn't working and there's talk about

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it. cancellation and maybe it's going to be cancelled at the end

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of series 3, but then they ended on a califhanger.

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You know, they're surprised, are they not, to get a 4th year?

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I think so.

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Yeah.

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I think they thought at the end of three, that was kind of going

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to be it.

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So they're like, well screw it.

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We're going to do what we always wanted to do, which is a season

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long arc and just throw everything at it.

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And I think, you know, I often praise DS Knight, but I think one

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of the reasons that 90s trick had that kind of 18 year run was

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because they did run off in another direction and do something a

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bit different.

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And I think they've creatively, they kept it quite interesting.

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Whereas Voyager and Enterprise were just sort of towing the next

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generation line, weren't they?

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, in a way that was kind of disappointing and perhaps not what

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was intended.

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And one of the things that I like about this is that it's set in

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the solar system and on earth.

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And like it does that with sort of varying degrees of success, but

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I like that as a backdrop.

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That's interesting.

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I know you're going to have a few things to say about the CGI in

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this.

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I actually thought they did a fairly decent job of realising

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fairly decent.

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Yeah, some of it's really terribly good.

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I mean, it's 20 years old now, isn't it?

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no, no, no.

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I know, I know.

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But I guess the thing with Star Trek is there is something a bit

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cheap about just having a ship and it goes to completely different

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places every week.

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And it's not until Star Trek, the Next Generation comes along that

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we start to build up a world.

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And then that's obviously gets filled into by Deep Space Nine

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which really does that job more than any other Star Trek show.

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And so we have different places and staff.

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And Deep Space 9 is the 1st Star Trek to go back and set like a

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two-part story on Earth unless I'm mistaken.

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And we have family in series 4 of Star Trek, the Next Generation

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which is set more or less entirely on Earth.

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And I love that.

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It gives it a feel that the films have, you know, that the

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original series films have of not just being set in space, but

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being set in our future and I liked that.

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That was maybe the thing I liked about this the most.

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And because it's the end, things happen that make a difference.

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We don't just go back to the status quo at the beginning and I

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think that's pretty good too.

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Well, you know, before we head into the episode.

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I'd like to set you a challenge.

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Okay.

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At some point.

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Well, you got a bit of time coming in the future.

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And my challenge to you is this, is to watch the bulk of, if not

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all, of series 4 of Enterprise, because I think you'll probably be

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pleasantly surprised.

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I think they've learned a lot of lessons.

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And I don't think Demons and Terror Prime are peak series 4, but

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they are good.

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They've sort of established the characters.

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They've realised Archer's a prick and they're doing some repair

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work on that.

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They've tried the season-long arc and tried to be massively

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ambitious.

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And so they've kind of in four, they do these condensed arcs of 3

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episodes.

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They're truly leaning into trek continuity in a way that Kursman

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Trek does and they're establishing a lot of things that we would

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come to see in the original series of Next Generation.

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Their production values improved.

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I think you might be pleasantly surprised, you know, if you watch

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the whole of four.

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All right.

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Well, I'm probably sort of duty bound to do it, given that I'm on

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a Star Trek podcast.

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It seems a bit embarrassing to admit that I haven't seen some of

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it and that's much of enterprise is...

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And naturally, you know, as you can imagine, there's still some

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absolute shockers in there as well.

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Oh, good.

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Just for your... prime enjoyment.

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Should we watch those?

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Yeah, all right.

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I will count us in in that case.

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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

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I can't believe you have to tell me that was Robocop, you know.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So Peter Weller.

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And this doctor, he's not going to last very long into the

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episode.

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Peter Weller, I think, does an amazingly good job of this.

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So they were always wearing just suits and ties.

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So were they wearing spacesuits and ties in series one?

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Were they just wearing contemporary?

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I thought they were wearing a lot.

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The boiler suits and things?

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You know, they're all, yeah, they're all in Star Trek-y style.

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Maybe this is another innovation.

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Yeah, maybe.

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I do seem to remember suits and ties or at least collars and ties

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in series one, like in Broken Bow.

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Um, So these 2 men are in a room and we are panning down to see

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that there's a baby with CGI pointed ears.

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Indeed.

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I thought that was quite effective, though, because I think we're

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all expecting it to be, I don't know, some, I don't know, I was

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expecting something hideous, yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I thought that was a nice a nice little surprise.

251
00:12:08.399 --> 00:12:12.720
Well, it's a good way of selling that he's a villain or at least a

252
00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:18.360
massive weirdo because it's like a cute baby with non-slight

253
00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:24.600
slightest possible non-human features and he's horrified by it or

254
00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:26.039
you know, super apprehensive about it.

255
00:12:26.100 --> 00:12:31.500
Like I said to you, uh, before, they've ceded in season 4 up to

256
00:12:31.500 --> 00:12:32.399
this finale.

257
00:12:32.460 --> 00:12:35.879
So there's been mentions of like, there's not so many aliens on

258
00:12:35.879 --> 00:12:36.720
earth these days.

259
00:12:36.779 --> 00:12:40.980
There's been some attacks on people in other episodes, and Terra

260
00:12:40.980 --> 00:12:43.320
Prime has been mentioned a couple of times.

261
00:12:43.379 --> 00:12:46.320
So it's a bit like a Rusty Davis arc in the early days of the

262
00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:49.320
Doctor Who revival, you know, just a few hints and whispers, but

263
00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:52.440
enough to give this a bit of substance when it finally comes

264
00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:52.799
around.

265
00:12:52.860 --> 00:12:54.000
Right.

266
00:12:54.059 --> 00:12:54.600
Right.

267
00:12:54.659 --> 00:12:56.039
It's funny too, isn't it?

268
00:12:56.100 --> 00:12:58.799
Because they do their big post 911 thing where all bets are off

269
00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:02.340
and we don't have to care about anyone and we can just steal their

270
00:13:02.340 --> 00:13:05.100
warp core and run off and do whatever it takes.

271
00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:09.779
And now we have something that's the opposite of that.

272
00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:11.820
No, I think it's a huge moral failure.

273
00:13:11.879 --> 00:13:12.720
It's disgraceful.

274
00:13:12.779 --> 00:13:15.240
Is that your new favourite episode of Enterprise?

275
00:13:15.299 --> 00:13:16.440
It's yeah, yeah.

276
00:13:16.500 --> 00:13:18.539
Well, so far, it's one of my favourites.

277
00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:19.620
Terrible.

278
00:13:19.679 --> 00:13:21.059
Oh, here we go.

279
00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:22.919
CGI Starfleet headquarters.

280
00:13:22.980 --> 00:13:27.299
Yeah, so this is the thing about this is we've seen Starfleet

281
00:13:27.299 --> 00:13:31.980
headquarters before in Star Trek, the Next Generation, but this is

282
00:13:31.980 --> 00:13:34.919
different because it's, you know, a couple of 100 years earlier.

283
00:13:34.919 --> 00:13:41.879
I think there's something about the CGI that I dislike and I think

284
00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:43.259
it has to do with the texture.

285
00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:46.620
Everything's just sort of uniformly dirty gray, which I just think

286
00:13:46.620 --> 00:13:47.159
looks...

287
00:13:47.580 --> 00:13:48.720
I thought that a bit black.

288
00:13:48.779 --> 00:13:49.799
There's no need for that.

289
00:13:49.860 --> 00:13:52.080
And they always feel like, I don't know if you noticed.

290
00:13:52.139 --> 00:13:55.679
Remember we were stigma and we had the sort of establishing shot

291
00:13:55.679 --> 00:13:57.779
of the hospital complex or wherever it was?

292
00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:01.259
And they sort of sweeps across the CGI and they always do the same

293
00:14:01.259 --> 00:14:01.620
movement.

294
00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:03.299
It's not a sort of dynamic, is it?

295
00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:06.179
It's a bit like the old mat shots in 90s trek.

296
00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:07.500
Yeah, yeah.

297
00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:08.100
Yeah.

298
00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:09.600
Yeah, well, they were good though.

299
00:14:09.659 --> 00:14:11.580
So we are actually on location.

300
00:14:11.639 --> 00:14:15.419
That is actually genuinely outside that sunlight you're seeing

301
00:14:15.419 --> 00:14:16.440
through the doors.

302
00:14:16.500 --> 00:14:20.820
It is a little bit of a pity that this is all we can afford

303
00:14:20.820 --> 00:14:21.120
though.

304
00:14:21.480 --> 00:14:25.860
And the only audience is them standing on the stairs, you know?

305
00:14:26.820 --> 00:14:31.080
Yeah, but did you not, is it in the 2nd part of this?

306
00:14:31.139 --> 00:14:33.600
No, it's in these are the voyages where they put in the CGI

307
00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:34.019
crowd.

308
00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:34.799
Archer walks out.

309
00:14:34.860 --> 00:14:35.940
Oh, it's terrible.

310
00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:38.519
Maybe it is for the best.

311
00:14:39.299 --> 00:14:44.159
Now, look, the entire enterprise crew is assembled here and, you

312
00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:45.240
know, I'm going to say something.

313
00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:46.320
No, just the regulars.

314
00:14:46.379 --> 00:14:49.019
No, it's not all 80s.

315
00:14:49.080 --> 00:14:49.919
That is in a prize crew.

316
00:14:49.980 --> 00:14:51.360
That's right.

317
00:14:51.419 --> 00:14:53.820
Everybody gets a car of the pie in this.

318
00:14:53.879 --> 00:14:56.279
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

319
00:14:56.340 --> 00:14:56.820
Yeah.

320
00:14:56.879 --> 00:15:00.360
Hoshi and and Travis, who are the ones that we haven't actually

321
00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:03.000
really talked about because they've barely been in the episodes

322
00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:03.720
we've covered.

323
00:15:03.779 --> 00:15:05.759
Both get great scenes, I thought.

324
00:15:05.820 --> 00:15:06.480
Yeah, yeah.

325
00:15:06.539 --> 00:15:10.620
So here's Harry Groner, who we know from Buffy.

326
00:15:10.740 --> 00:15:13.919
Yeah, it was so much more charming in Buffy, wasn't he?

327
00:15:13.980 --> 00:15:20.519
He is Tin Man in Tin Man alongside Deanna Troy.

328
00:15:20.580 --> 00:15:21.960
So he plays a betas...

329
00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:24.120
And he was more eccentric in Tin Man.

330
00:15:24.179 --> 00:15:26.700
In fact, he was more fun than all of his other appearances I've

331
00:15:26.700 --> 00:15:27.059
seen him in.

332
00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:30.899
Here is just sort of a standard politician who turns out to have

333
00:15:30.899 --> 00:15:33.419
had previous racist leanings in his past.

334
00:15:33.480 --> 00:15:34.860
Yes, yeah, that's right.

335
00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:35.399
That's right.

336
00:15:36.059 --> 00:15:38.519
But he's a good actor, isn't he?

337
00:15:38.639 --> 00:15:40.500
Yeah, no, and he's doing the thing.

338
00:15:40.559 --> 00:15:42.059
I mean, he works as a politician.

339
00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:43.500
He was the mayor in Buffy, I guess.

340
00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:48.539
And so he is the unfortunately named Gannet.

341
00:15:49.379 --> 00:15:51.299
Jesus Christ.

342
00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:52.740
That's her 1st name.

343
00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:53.820
She's called Gannet.

344
00:15:53.879 --> 00:15:57.299
She's like a filthy thing about black men.

345
00:15:57.360 --> 00:15:58.799
Oh, no.

346
00:15:58.860 --> 00:15:59.820
Don't say that.

347
00:16:00.059 --> 00:16:05.940
That's such a, such a terrible, terrible, that's such a terrible

348
00:16:05.940 --> 00:16:06.419
name.

349
00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:08.159
Just super super upsetting.

350
00:16:08.220 --> 00:16:10.980
You know, and I did, I did really like these things.

351
00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:13.740
What just won just because is it Meriweather or Mayweather?

352
00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:14.879
Mayweather.

353
00:16:14.940 --> 00:16:16.799
I still can't decide.

354
00:16:16.860 --> 00:16:20.639
Just because he actually finally had a chance to do some acting 4

355
00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:21.539
years into this show.

356
00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:25.440
I don't know if this is the most sizzling chemistry I've ever seen

357
00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:26.399
between 2 actors.

358
00:16:26.460 --> 00:16:27.779
No, no.

359
00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:31.440
It's a bit of a shame, but it is actually nice to see him get

360
00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:32.399
something to do.

361
00:16:32.940 --> 00:16:37.740
She's not particularly likeable and she's also called Gannet.

362
00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:41.940
So, you know, that's a problem as well, I think.

363
00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:44.700
I do think this was this woman coming along.

364
00:16:44.759 --> 00:16:45.840
Yes.

365
00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:48.299
So she just walks into the conference room.

366
00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:53.580
Her name is Couri, and she's been phased or stabbed or something

367
00:16:53.580 --> 00:16:54.360
is that what's happening?

368
00:16:54.419 --> 00:16:57.840
It looks like the shittiest conference centre room.

369
00:16:58.620 --> 00:17:01.860
Like a bad 90s hotel.

370
00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:05.099
Look at how it's all kind of all the interior decoration.

371
00:17:05.160 --> 00:17:07.500
It is nice to see all these aliens about though, isn't it?

372
00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:10.440
Because like we said before, there's a bit of a whitewash on

373
00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:11.519
Enterprise, isn't there?

374
00:17:11.579 --> 00:17:13.200
when it comes to aliens.

375
00:17:13.259 --> 00:17:16.259
So we've got Tellerites and we've got some Andorians.

376
00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:17.519
Oh, that's a nasty one.

377
00:17:17.579 --> 00:17:18.720
That's going to sting.

378
00:17:18.779 --> 00:17:24.119
Those animated antennae on the Andorians make me laugh.

379
00:17:24.180 --> 00:17:27.180
Every time you've got Jeffrey Coombs there, usually, giving this

380
00:17:27.180 --> 00:17:30.720
like fantastic performance, but all I hang up to...

381
00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:32.220
Okay, wiggling tent.

382
00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:37.980
That's so great Now I think they've done something to the ship.

383
00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:44.160
Am I crazy or have all of the computer displays been updated to be

384
00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:45.420
more interesting and colourful?

385
00:17:45.539 --> 00:17:47.220
They're a bit brighter, aren't they?

386
00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:51.059
It's almost like we're heading towards TOS a little bit.

387
00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:54.660
Yeah, because the bridge, I think, looks more interesting as

388
00:17:54.660 --> 00:17:54.960
well.

389
00:17:55.019 --> 00:17:56.880
And it does look more Star Treky.

390
00:17:56.940 --> 00:18:02.579
In the previous story, they rebuild the Defiant set from TOS, which

391
00:18:02.579 --> 00:18:04.079
is essentially the enterprise there.

392
00:18:04.140 --> 00:18:07.259
Maybe the designer was going, well, this is a lot more fun than

393
00:18:07.259 --> 00:18:08.700
the usual boring sets we do.

394
00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:11.460
Well, let's start these ones up.

395
00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:13.859
Because apparently there was some sort of plan if we'd gone onto

396
00:18:13.859 --> 00:18:16.920
series 5, we would have had the Enterprise.

397
00:18:16.980 --> 00:18:20.400
Enterprise would have been refitted and maybe even remodelled a

398
00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:23.220
bit, I think, but obviously.

399
00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:25.980
No, I do I do think they were hitting their stride here.

400
00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:27.839
And I think it is a crying shame.

401
00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:29.400
They didn't have a season five.

402
00:18:29.460 --> 00:18:31.079
Even if that was the last season.

403
00:18:31.140 --> 00:18:34.980
Because I think it probably could have been like the ininverted

404
00:18:34.980 --> 00:18:36.779
commerce enterprise season, you know?

405
00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:39.839
It was sort of a strange thing.

406
00:18:39.900 --> 00:18:42.119
I don't know where they thought they were originally going.

407
00:18:42.180 --> 00:18:48.779
So I think series one is set in 2150 or something or 2151 maybe.

408
00:18:49.019 --> 00:18:52.079
Um, And the Enterprise.

409
00:18:52.140 --> 00:18:53.519
I mean, the Enterprise, sorry.

410
00:18:53.579 --> 00:18:56.460
The Federation starts in 2161.

411
00:18:56.819 --> 00:19:00.839
And the only reason we know that is that Deanna mentions it in a

412
00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:01.799
poker game.

413
00:19:01.859 --> 00:19:06.299
She says, you know, today's variation is Federation Day and 2s

414
00:19:06.299 --> 00:19:08.220
ones and 6s are wild or something.

415
00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:10.799
Like she's explaining the rules and that's the only way that we

416
00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:11.039
know.

417
00:19:11.099 --> 00:19:14.819
So we're 10 years out from the foundation of the federation.

418
00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:19.859
So we were never going to reach that in the show because Star Trek

419
00:19:19.859 --> 00:19:24.119
always does, you know, one season is a year, like they always do

420
00:19:24.119 --> 00:19:24.420
that.

421
00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:27.240
And I guess they could have decided that they were heading in that

422
00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:27.660
direction.

423
00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:31.079
But obviously they had no sort of real long-term plan for what

424
00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:31.680
they were going to do.

425
00:19:31.740 --> 00:19:35.039
Well, you and I have already detailed, haven't we?

426
00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:38.099
In the season one episodes that we've done, the sort of long list

427
00:19:38.099 --> 00:19:40.920
of complaints that we have about their creative decisions

428
00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:45.539
everything from, you know, the incredibly dull, uh, central cast

429
00:19:45.539 --> 00:19:49.980
of characters, the appalling way they characterise the Vulcans, you

430
00:19:49.980 --> 00:19:55.140
know, like just the board, the very slight storytelling archer.

431
00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:55.440
Yeah.

432
00:19:55.500 --> 00:20:01.619
Whereas I think had they started here with a bit more substantive

433
00:20:01.619 --> 00:20:05.940
storytelling, actually leaning into Star Trek continuity and

434
00:20:05.940 --> 00:20:07.740
having lots of Easter eggs and things like that.

435
00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:11.339
So had they started there, I, they could have gone somewhere

436
00:20:11.339 --> 00:20:12.539
extraordinary, I think.

437
00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:18.539
I think it's uh, it's intended as a sequel to 1st contact rather

438
00:20:18.539 --> 00:20:23.640
than a prequel to um, Star Trek, the original series, don't you?

439
00:20:23.700 --> 00:20:27.720
Well, that's what, but then Manikoto comes in and basically says

440
00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:31.980
but, you know, Burman and Bragger are essentially demoted, I was

441
00:20:31.980 --> 00:20:32.339
reading.

442
00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:34.799
They were said, she's like, this isn't working.

443
00:20:34.859 --> 00:20:36.299
You ain't getting the ratings in.

444
00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:38.339
You're off because they started off.

445
00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:42.000
I think they started off around 6000000 per episode and come the

446
00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:42.839
end of series three.

447
00:20:42.900 --> 00:20:45.000
They were getting sort of 2.5 million.

448
00:20:45.059 --> 00:20:46.799
They lost over half their audience.

449
00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:49.740
So manic character has come in to sort of give it a drive in the

450
00:20:49.740 --> 00:20:50.160
last season.

451
00:20:50.460 --> 00:20:53.759
And um and I think he succeeded.

452
00:20:53.819 --> 00:20:54.900
Right.

453
00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:57.299
Yeah, okay.

454
00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:00.599
Well, I'll tell you once I've finished watching series 4, I'll

455
00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:01.259
definitely do that.

456
00:21:01.319 --> 00:21:02.160
I do have time.

457
00:21:02.339 --> 00:21:09.720
So we've got this whole plot here of, um, Trip and Tapol and their

458
00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:11.940
baby that Tapol never conceived.

459
00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:14.700
Yes, she's never been pregnant.

460
00:21:14.759 --> 00:21:18.960
So, um, I don't know what's happened, like they've just taken both

461
00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:22.740
their handkerchiefs or something and got DNA or something.

462
00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:24.960
Someone stole into Paul's comb.

463
00:21:25.019 --> 00:21:27.960
It's a way to bring them into the story, isn't it?

464
00:21:28.019 --> 00:21:29.759
But apart from that.

465
00:21:29.819 --> 00:21:32.759
Is there any reason at all why it has to be tripping to poll?

466
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:38.220
Um, well, I mean, are they in a relationship at this point?

467
00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:40.619
Yeah, I think so.

468
00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:40.980
Yes.

469
00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:41.519
Yeah.

470
00:21:41.579 --> 00:21:42.180
I think so.

471
00:21:42.299 --> 00:21:42.480
Yeah.

472
00:21:42.539 --> 00:21:45.240
Because it's not like we've certainly been exploring that in the

473
00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:46.140
last few seasons.

474
00:21:46.259 --> 00:21:46.920
Okay.

475
00:21:46.980 --> 00:21:49.500
They have certainly had sex lately.

476
00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:49.980
I telling you.

477
00:21:50.339 --> 00:21:50.940
Well, this boy.

478
00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:54.420
So we had an establishing shot of some city.

479
00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:56.579
I'm not quite sure what city it was.

480
00:21:56.640 --> 00:21:58.319
You're talking about this backdrop here, aren't you?

481
00:21:58.380 --> 00:22:02.099
Shitty, shitty backdrop, and it is better than that photo, the

482
00:22:02.099 --> 00:22:05.759
blown up photograph in stigma, which was almost impossible to read

483
00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:06.599
as the city.

484
00:22:06.660 --> 00:22:09.779
This is also almost impossible to read as a city, but at least

485
00:22:09.779 --> 00:22:10.799
they're sort of trying, I guess.

486
00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:12.539
It almost works.

487
00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:15.059
Look, when they're away from it and it's far in the distance.

488
00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:18.180
But at the beginning of the scene, he's right in front of this

489
00:22:18.180 --> 00:22:19.920
cardboard backdrop.

490
00:22:19.980 --> 00:22:23.460
I'm like, why are you showing this for what it is?

491
00:22:23.579 --> 00:22:25.319
Like, there are rooftops.

492
00:22:25.380 --> 00:22:26.279
This is the thing.

493
00:22:26.339 --> 00:22:27.720
This is the 90 straight thing.

494
00:22:27.779 --> 00:22:31.140
We're shooting this with all the production values of a daytime

495
00:22:31.140 --> 00:22:34.200
soap opera, and we can't even go onto the roof of the fucking

496
00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:36.900
building we're in and shoot it.

497
00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:37.799
Do you know what I mean?

498
00:22:37.859 --> 00:22:39.119
Like, why aren't we doing that?

499
00:22:39.180 --> 00:22:40.680
It's outrageous.

500
00:22:40.740 --> 00:22:41.400
It's so bad.

501
00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:48.599
So this is section 31 and it turns out that Malcolm has had some

502
00:22:48.599 --> 00:22:51.720
relationship with them, this guy is called, what's he called?

503
00:22:51.779 --> 00:22:52.559
operative.

504
00:22:52.619 --> 00:22:55.140
I believe that's that's dropped earlier. as well.

505
00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:56.039
Okay.

506
00:22:56.339 --> 00:22:59.880
So I'm guessing I'm guessing DSNI has made a bit of an impact

507
00:22:59.880 --> 00:23:00.240
somewhere.

508
00:23:00.299 --> 00:23:03.359
Yeah, so is section 31 in this?

509
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:05.880
Or is it just this?

510
00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:11.940
So I think in in Maniko's desire to stretch out and sort of, you

511
00:23:11.940 --> 00:23:12.900
know, pay lip service.

512
00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:14.279
He's looking in every direction.

513
00:23:14.339 --> 00:23:15.599
A bit like Kurtzman Trick.

514
00:23:15.660 --> 00:23:17.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, no, that's good.

515
00:23:17.940 --> 00:23:20.339
But you're not so keen on that, are you?

516
00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:22.799
You're not so keen on section 31 and...

517
00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:23.759
No, I think section.

518
00:23:23.819 --> 00:23:29.579
No, not, I think, I think that it undermines the message of Star

519
00:23:29.579 --> 00:23:37.859
Trek, but I understand in the 90s where they want to kind of, you

520
00:23:37.859 --> 00:23:41.759
know, critique, critique the Federation, and the Federation's kind

521
00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:43.500
of America, you know, in all sorts of ways.

522
00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:48.240
And so that's a legitimate thing to do, and there's the FBI and

523
00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:49.380
the CIA and stuff.

524
00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:53.160
So section 31 You know, it seems like the right thing to do.

525
00:23:53.220 --> 00:23:58.920
I think with Kurtzman Trek, though, given that it's trying to

526
00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:04.140
position itself against, you know, being opportunistic and and

527
00:24:04.140 --> 00:24:09.240
lacking kind of any sort of principles, it can't really afford to

528
00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:10.319
have Section 31.

529
00:24:10.500 --> 00:24:13.980
And so if they do do the section 31 with cousin Michelle, it'll be

530
00:24:13.980 --> 00:24:16.740
interesting to see how they do that, given how they generally

531
00:24:16.740 --> 00:24:19.440
present the federation in other shows.

532
00:24:19.500 --> 00:24:23.160
I feel like it justifies its existence just because she's going to

533
00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:23.700
be in it.

534
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:25.920
Well, if they're going to do a show with Cousin Michelle.

535
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:30.480
She may be too big for a spy now, I think.

536
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:32.579
It's just possible that we don't get her back.

537
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:33.119
I don't know.

538
00:24:33.180 --> 00:24:36.480
Okay. you know, I was on, I was on, sorry, very quickly.

539
00:24:36.539 --> 00:24:41.039
I was on Facebook the other day and that Star Trek game popped up

540
00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:41.759
an advert for it.

541
00:24:41.819 --> 00:24:43.859
You know where they're bringing all the actors and they're playing

542
00:24:43.859 --> 00:24:45.599
the Star Trek game against each other?

543
00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:50.819
And there's Michelle fucking Yo. doing an ad for the...

544
00:24:50.819 --> 00:24:52.440
With the fellow who played Harry Mudd.

545
00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:56.759
No, Michelle, you can't royal dialogue against me.

546
00:24:56.819 --> 00:24:58.559
And she goes, die.

547
00:24:58.619 --> 00:25:00.180
It's not...

548
00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:01.259
That's great.

549
00:25:01.380 --> 00:25:04.319
See, that's a massive movie style.

550
00:25:04.380 --> 00:25:08.339
This is actually quite good because we had CG and then we had the

551
00:25:08.339 --> 00:25:11.400
Golden Gate Bridge, which is really great.

552
00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:14.700
Look at that. weird alien.

553
00:25:14.759 --> 00:25:15.240
I don't know.

554
00:25:15.299 --> 00:25:17.640
We do get a cretassin later on.

555
00:25:17.700 --> 00:25:25.140
The race of people that Archer had to apologise to in Nighting

556
00:25:25.140 --> 00:25:25.680
Sick Bay.

557
00:25:25.740 --> 00:25:29.579
The shame is, is like they've kind of learned that they can go

558
00:25:29.579 --> 00:25:34.259
beyond doing the humanoid alien in series 3 when they have, and

559
00:25:34.259 --> 00:25:36.059
you remember like the turtles and things like that.

560
00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:36.539
Oh, yeah.

561
00:25:37.500 --> 00:25:39.180
And the insect toys.

562
00:25:39.240 --> 00:25:41.519
No, but they're trying to do something different, you know?

563
00:25:41.579 --> 00:25:44.640
Yeah, but they can't do it outside and moving the camera and stuff

564
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:47.640
like in the, you know, outside of the studio.

565
00:25:47.700 --> 00:25:49.799
They just don't have enough control of the environment would be my

566
00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:50.099
guess.

567
00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:54.119
I don't think they could drop an alien, a CG alien, a Zindi

568
00:25:54.119 --> 00:25:57.119
insectoid in the background of this shot and make...

569
00:25:57.180 --> 00:26:00.059
My favourite alien in Star Trek now is that blob from Prodigy.

570
00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:03.539
Oh, wait, you don't know what's happened with Murph.

571
00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:06.299
No, if he's died, then I'll never forget.

572
00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:07.319
No, of course he hasn't.

573
00:26:07.380 --> 00:26:09.900
It's a kid's show and he's a he's a baby.

574
00:26:09.960 --> 00:26:10.920
He's a toddler.

575
00:26:10.980 --> 00:26:12.960
I also like the blobbing...

576
00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:14.819
Oh, good grief.

577
00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:16.559
What was that show called with Penny Johnson and Gerald?

578
00:26:16.619 --> 00:26:17.759
Oh, yeah.

579
00:26:17.819 --> 00:26:18.839
Well, yeah, he died.

580
00:26:18.900 --> 00:26:21.420
Norman McDonald, yeah, for...

581
00:26:21.420 --> 00:26:23.039
Yeah, yeah.

582
00:26:23.400 --> 00:26:25.200
The Orville.

583
00:26:25.259 --> 00:26:26.519
Thank you.

584
00:26:26.579 --> 00:26:27.299
Yeah.

585
00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:31.740
Now we're confronting now we can confronting Harry with his weird

586
00:26:31.740 --> 00:26:32.940
Nazi background.

587
00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:35.460
He obviously was a member of the Republican Party or something

588
00:26:35.460 --> 00:26:39.720
sometime earlier in the 22nd century and he's super embarrassed

589
00:26:39.720 --> 00:26:40.019
about it.

590
00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:43.920
So he's learned, you know, I don't know.

591
00:26:43.980 --> 00:26:45.359
Like, I'm not quite sure.

592
00:26:45.420 --> 00:26:48.359
We didn't get a chance to do anything but sort of stand there.

593
00:26:48.420 --> 00:26:51.539
Yeah, in a sort of beige way.

594
00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:57.240
No, think about the mayor in, who was just so funny, so charming.

595
00:26:57.299 --> 00:27:00.119
And he's the villain of the piece and you just wanted him to win

596
00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:00.720
the whole time.

597
00:27:00.779 --> 00:27:01.259
Yeah.

598
00:27:01.259 --> 00:27:06.599
Well, I think that the thing that this doesn't manage is to be

599
00:27:06.599 --> 00:27:07.259
much fun.

600
00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:09.420
Like it is very serious.

601
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:12.299
I said that you didn't know that there wasn't much human in this.

602
00:27:12.359 --> 00:27:12.839
Yeah.

603
00:27:13.019 --> 00:27:17.759
Which is a shame because, again, that two-par Mirror Universe

604
00:27:17.759 --> 00:27:21.599
episode they've just done, which had Hoshi as like the villain of

605
00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:23.759
the piece, murder everybody.

606
00:27:23.819 --> 00:27:25.259
It was great fun. yeah.

607
00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:30.539
It's kind of hot, you know, Anthony Montgomery.

608
00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:34.079
In a minute, he's in the bed with his top off and I was very

609
00:27:34.079 --> 00:27:35.220
jealous of this woman.

610
00:27:36.900 --> 00:27:39.539
Yeah, so he's young, isn't he?

611
00:27:39.599 --> 00:27:41.160
He's kind of, oh, it's him and Troop.

612
00:27:41.220 --> 00:27:42.779
I get something eye candy in this show.

613
00:27:42.839 --> 00:27:46.380
I wonder if anyone's actually engaged Bourbon and Bracker to ask

614
00:27:46.380 --> 00:27:49.799
the question as to why he had so few opportunities because I don't

615
00:27:49.799 --> 00:27:51.900
think he's the best actor in the world, but he's got a bit of

616
00:27:51.900 --> 00:27:52.500
charm about him.

617
00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:55.680
I mean, it's Star Trek, you know, not being the best actor in the

618
00:27:55.680 --> 00:27:57.960
world has never got in the way of any of the regular...

619
00:27:58.019 --> 00:27:58.920
That's not true.

620
00:27:58.980 --> 00:28:00.299
That's true.

621
00:28:00.420 --> 00:28:03.000
There's a couple of Roberts and...

622
00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:03.900
Gates McFadden.

623
00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:04.680
Yeah, yeah.

624
00:28:04.740 --> 00:28:08.759
But Bart, you know, like I think he's perfectly charming and he's

625
00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:09.900
sort of young and good looking.

626
00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:15.480
I don't see any reason why he, you know, he couldn't have been

627
00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:16.140
given more to do.

628
00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:19.859
No, they're doing the 3 who rule, aren't they, Enterprise?

629
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:23.940
They're focussing on a trip to Paul and Archer.

630
00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:25.559
That's basically where the focus is.

631
00:28:25.619 --> 00:28:26.880
Look at this.

632
00:28:26.940 --> 00:28:27.599
This is so funny.

633
00:28:27.660 --> 00:28:31.559
This is the 2 of them explaining the status of their relationship

634
00:28:31.559 --> 00:28:33.059
to each other.

635
00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:36.480
It's just the most kind of terrible life.

636
00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:37.980
Are we are we still in the 90s here?

637
00:28:38.039 --> 00:28:39.420
Can I still call this 90s trek?

638
00:28:39.480 --> 00:28:40.259
Are we in the 2000s?

639
00:28:40.380 --> 00:28:42.660
Yeah, we're not in the 90s, but yes, UK.

640
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:43.079
Okay.

641
00:28:43.140 --> 00:28:48.420
All of that relationship dialogue. and there's a lot of it.

642
00:28:48.539 --> 00:28:51.299
Well, they still don't do some text.

643
00:28:51.299 --> 00:28:52.380
So, you know what?

644
00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:54.539
I'm not sure if I like you anymore, but you want to fuck?

645
00:28:54.839 --> 00:28:56.400
That's right.

646
00:28:56.460 --> 00:28:57.299
But no, no.

647
00:28:57.359 --> 00:28:58.200
I mean, they can't do that.

648
00:28:58.259 --> 00:29:00.299
It's still Star Trek is still PG rated.

649
00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:01.859
They can't do anything much like that.

650
00:29:01.859 --> 00:29:05.099
And they don't do some text.

651
00:29:05.160 --> 00:29:09.299
It is absolutely, it is like it's more and more I'm realising

652
00:29:09.299 --> 00:29:12.420
daytime soap opera much more than anything else.

653
00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:14.039
This is what this is like.

654
00:29:14.099 --> 00:29:18.900
The characters always say what they're thinking of flocks in this

655
00:29:18.900 --> 00:29:22.619
two-polter, in that he kind of has to develop an emotional

656
00:29:22.619 --> 00:29:26.460
attachment to this baby that he's trying to save.

657
00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:28.980
And there's no real context for it all.

658
00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:32.400
But he absolutely in that the moment in the 2nd episode, where he

659
00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:35.519
says it's like losing one of his own children. really sells it.

660
00:29:35.579 --> 00:29:37.200
Oh, I think he does too.

661
00:29:37.259 --> 00:29:40.799
But it's all down to the acting and not at all down to the

662
00:29:40.799 --> 00:29:41.160
writing.

663
00:29:41.220 --> 00:29:42.240
No.

664
00:29:42.299 --> 00:29:45.059
And is it the way they're lighting him or is it the way they're

665
00:29:45.059 --> 00:29:45.779
making him up?

666
00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:50.160
He just looks like he's got into the rouge a bit, you know, like

667
00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:55.200
he's, he seems to, it, it looks like makeup rather than a

668
00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:55.619
handcuff.

669
00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:56.880
I always look a bit...

670
00:29:56.940 --> 00:29:58.859
I mean, it's like they're trying to make him sort of sexy flocks

671
00:29:58.859 --> 00:29:59.099
you know?

672
00:29:59.160 --> 00:30:02.519
No, it's certainly very weird.

673
00:30:02.579 --> 00:30:07.200
I mean, he, I think, is the best one in the crew, isn't he, the

674
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:08.460
best one in the in the car.

675
00:30:08.519 --> 00:30:09.720
He's the most interesting character.

676
00:30:09.779 --> 00:30:10.440
Yeah.

677
00:30:10.500 --> 00:30:12.539
And that maybe the best actor.

678
00:30:12.599 --> 00:30:16.259
Something you said about Paul Werner's character is that you have

679
00:30:16.259 --> 00:30:18.660
to be like utterly uncharismatic.

680
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:21.000
Um, in the role.

681
00:30:21.059 --> 00:30:23.579
And he succeeds very well.

682
00:30:24.299 --> 00:30:26.640
Without it being a bad performance.

683
00:30:26.700 --> 00:30:27.900
No.

684
00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:31.920
So so he is playing basically a white supremacist.

685
00:30:31.980 --> 00:30:38.099
I actually think it's a little bit like I, there are 2 major roles

686
00:30:38.099 --> 00:30:41.940
in this sort of Terra Prime thing that are played by black actors

687
00:30:41.940 --> 00:30:42.299
right?

688
00:30:42.359 --> 00:30:45.119
So there's this guy, Daniel.

689
00:30:45.180 --> 00:30:48.960
And later on, we're going to get someone called Josiah, who's

690
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:50.819
working in the mines on the moon.

691
00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:56.460
And they're black and it's kind of like, no, we've moved beyond

692
00:30:56.460 --> 00:30:59.460
worrying about colour, but what we worry about is different

693
00:30:59.460 --> 00:31:00.480
species.

694
00:31:00.539 --> 00:31:04.259
And so that's something that's sort of worth saying.

695
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:08.700
But also, like I just kind of think that sometimes, you know, in

696
00:31:08.700 --> 00:31:11.160
this, it might have been better if just white people owned their

697
00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:14.819
shit and realised that we were the people doing the racism all

698
00:31:14.819 --> 00:31:15.299
along.

699
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:18.960
And so making the black people be racist, you know, seems very

700
00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:22.799
inclusive and stuff, but it also kind of allies the fact that it's

701
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:26.460
basically something that white people do, you know, like at least

702
00:31:26.460 --> 00:31:29.880
in the in the American context of the European context and stuff.

703
00:31:29.940 --> 00:31:34.500
When we were going, when we go down to the mining facility, the

704
00:31:34.500 --> 00:31:37.740
fella gets up and makes the speech and he's a black guy.

705
00:31:37.799 --> 00:31:40.980
And I was like, I was really wondering what it was saying about me

706
00:31:40.980 --> 00:31:42.299
that I was a little bit awkward.

707
00:31:42.420 --> 00:31:46.740
I felt a bit awkward because it was a black man making that speech

708
00:31:46.740 --> 00:31:49.440
about xenophobia.

709
00:31:49.500 --> 00:31:52.920
And it's not, it's not that I think the black people should know

710
00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:55.559
better, like they should know their own history and how, you know

711
00:31:55.559 --> 00:31:56.339
how can they be?

712
00:31:56.640 --> 00:31:58.980
how could they be racist that's outrageous?

713
00:31:59.039 --> 00:32:02.339
Like, I think, like, for the science fiction, they want to make it

714
00:32:02.339 --> 00:32:04.019
human beings versus others.

715
00:32:04.079 --> 00:32:07.079
But, like, it's a white person thing.

716
00:32:07.140 --> 00:32:10.500
You know, it's something that white people have done.

717
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:12.119
And it just seems a bit weird.

718
00:32:12.180 --> 00:32:13.680
Whereas Peter Weller.

719
00:32:13.740 --> 00:32:16.440
So Peter Weller is a white supremacist and he's a villain.

720
00:32:16.500 --> 00:32:20.819
And so he can't be fun and he can't be camping it up and he

721
00:32:20.819 --> 00:32:24.480
doesn't do that at all. absence of a sense of humour, does he?

722
00:32:24.539 --> 00:32:25.380
Oh, look at this.

723
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:28.319
He's just injected himself with something, but he's not killing

724
00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:31.500
himself, sadly, like Jake, it was in the previous episode.

725
00:32:31.559 --> 00:32:33.720
So yes, he can't be fun.

726
00:32:33.779 --> 00:32:35.759
He can't be an enjoyable performance.

727
00:32:35.819 --> 00:32:37.259
He can't be a fun villain.

728
00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:41.039
And so he's just a thick, uncharismatic asshole.

729
00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:45.599
I do think that's the right decision, but it does mean this is

730
00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:49.380
incredibly sort of worthy rather than a lot of fun.

731
00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:52.440
Like, you and me watched the Serene Squall where that fabulous

732
00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:56.700
woman pirate was capping it up to, and it was the most delightful

733
00:32:56.700 --> 00:32:59.579
thing ever, but you can't really do that with this subject

734
00:32:59.579 --> 00:33:00.059
matter.

735
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:01.559
No, that's right.

736
00:33:01.619 --> 00:33:06.359
But I mean, it needs to, like, it needs to be that serious.

737
00:33:06.420 --> 00:33:10.259
Like, I don't think it's, oh, it's not sombre. you know what?

738
00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:11.519
Oh, DS Long goes it right.

739
00:33:11.579 --> 00:33:15.240
You have the female shapeshifter who's utterly without humour, the

740
00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:19.140
same lines like, you know, I want the Cardassians exterminated.

741
00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:22.680
And then you've got Weyer and camping it up to the side going, oh

742
00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:24.599
how many of them, you know?

743
00:33:25.559 --> 00:33:29.579
So Deep Space 9 sort of does this, doesn't it?

744
00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:37.079
So there is a two-part episode, and I want to say homefront.

745
00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:38.640
Paradise Lost.

746
00:33:38.700 --> 00:33:39.539
Yeah.

747
00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:42.119
And so it does a similar thing, doesn't it?

748
00:33:42.180 --> 00:33:46.740
So the human beings start to become isolationist because there are

749
00:33:46.740 --> 00:33:48.599
shapeshifters around or something.

750
00:33:48.660 --> 00:33:52.859
There, yeah, they're, he's basically the admiral, the evil admiral

751
00:33:52.859 --> 00:33:55.259
of the week is absolutely petrified.

752
00:33:55.319 --> 00:33:57.960
So he wants the illusion.

753
00:33:58.019 --> 00:34:01.980
So he creates the illusion that the shapeshifters are attacking

754
00:34:01.980 --> 00:34:02.940
Earth.

755
00:34:02.940 --> 00:34:04.740
So he can militarise the planet.

756
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:06.599
So it's all about paranoia.

757
00:34:06.660 --> 00:34:10.440
So it's not, and it's really, really effective as well.

758
00:34:10.500 --> 00:34:13.619
But it's kind of done on a smaller scale than this because they

759
00:34:13.619 --> 00:34:14.760
just don't have the money for it.

760
00:34:14.820 --> 00:34:15.840
Yeah.

761
00:34:15.900 --> 00:34:19.079
But again, I think there's something about earth, like setting it

762
00:34:19.079 --> 00:34:19.440
on earth.

763
00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:22.619
And I mean, a lot of these scenes are said on enterprise, which is

764
00:34:22.619 --> 00:34:23.579
understandable.

765
00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:28.800
But, you know, like, what might have been nice.

766
00:34:28.860 --> 00:34:29.880
Hey, we're back on Earth.

767
00:34:29.940 --> 00:34:32.820
If some of these people caught up with their families and things

768
00:34:32.820 --> 00:34:33.239
you know?

769
00:34:33.300 --> 00:34:35.219
Like in that, you've got fame.

770
00:34:35.340 --> 00:34:39.000
Jake Cisco saying, you know, grandpa, take your medicine and then

771
00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:40.679
you got, oh, grandpa, Cisco, go in.

772
00:34:40.739 --> 00:34:43.980
Look, I've got a half a dozen bags of clams out there that need

773
00:34:43.980 --> 00:34:44.460
cleaning.

774
00:34:44.519 --> 00:34:45.599
Don't you start with me, all right?

775
00:34:45.659 --> 00:34:47.519
You know, like, it's really fun.

776
00:34:47.579 --> 00:34:50.280
This kiss is not doing it for me at all.

777
00:34:50.340 --> 00:34:54.059
No, in a minute, though, he's got his beautiful arms around her.

778
00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:54.539
Oh, man.

779
00:34:54.599 --> 00:34:56.639
Sorry, I'm going to stop going on about that, but he did.

780
00:34:56.639 --> 00:34:59.159
I'm a bit hot and hot under the collar, you know, at 5 in the

781
00:34:59.159 --> 00:34:59.340
morning.

782
00:35:00.539 --> 00:35:04.500
Yeah, look brightly coloured, brightly coloured displays.

783
00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:06.059
And look at this, right?

784
00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:09.719
They're all, you talk to me about them, you know, people working

785
00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:12.239
together competently to solve a problem.

786
00:35:12.300 --> 00:35:16.199
This is this crew, all working together, all pulling in the same

787
00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:16.500
direction.

788
00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:19.079
We didn't get a lot of that in enterprise, you know. someone

789
00:35:19.079 --> 00:35:20.219
behaving like an asshole.

790
00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:21.059
Yeah.

791
00:35:21.119 --> 00:35:25.500
So, so, on the on the display on the side of the room, you can see

792
00:35:25.500 --> 00:35:29.400
the figure, like there's an anatomical diagram of what's happened

793
00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:32.340
to Couri or something, you know, how she's been shot or whatever

794
00:35:32.340 --> 00:35:35.820
but it's a man silhouette, it's like even in the future.

795
00:35:35.880 --> 00:35:37.139
Men.

796
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:41.940
It's like there's men and then there's women who are just sort of

797
00:35:41.940 --> 00:35:46.619
unlike men as far as medicine's concerned that still happens.

798
00:35:46.679 --> 00:35:47.219
And...

799
00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:51.659
May I say as this crew assemble around a lit up table with a

800
00:35:51.659 --> 00:35:52.619
diagram on the wall?

801
00:35:52.679 --> 00:35:58.860
We are heading ever closer towards the next generation. yeah Oh

802
00:35:58.860 --> 00:36:00.360
can I say, right, I'm sorry.

803
00:36:00.420 --> 00:36:03.960
I've said a bit about I quite like the CGI. like the scale of all

804
00:36:03.960 --> 00:36:04.320
of this.

805
00:36:04.380 --> 00:36:07.380
Now here we are, back down in Stockcave 7, 58.

806
00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:09.659
Stockcave set number one.

807
00:36:09.719 --> 00:36:09.900
Yep.

808
00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:10.860
Straight away.

809
00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:15.480
And all they've done is screwed a few rock, a few polystyrene

810
00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:16.079
rocks about.

811
00:36:16.139 --> 00:36:18.659
I mean, those sets look so cheap.

812
00:36:18.900 --> 00:36:23.340
So that doctor, he's dead, obviously.

813
00:36:23.400 --> 00:36:27.179
So the doctor from the 1st scene has been killed and buried in the

814
00:36:27.179 --> 00:36:27.420
thing.

815
00:36:27.480 --> 00:36:29.340
Look at all this, honestly.

816
00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:31.500
Yeah, I think that looks pretty good.

817
00:36:31.559 --> 00:36:35.099
Do you think I feel, I thought when we were, I mean, it's 20 years

818
00:36:35.099 --> 00:36:35.639
in the future.

819
00:36:35.699 --> 00:36:39.599
We went off to a prison, didn't we, on a planet in Discovery

820
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:40.500
fairly recently.

821
00:36:40.500 --> 00:36:42.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah. which looked incredible.

822
00:36:43.019 --> 00:36:43.800
Yeah.

823
00:36:43.860 --> 00:36:45.599
No, this is sort of boring.

824
00:36:45.659 --> 00:36:49.619
And I think that the moon surface looks particularly kind of a

825
00:36:49.619 --> 00:36:54.059
texture over a sort of softly undulating surface, like there's no

826
00:36:54.059 --> 00:36:55.139
real weight to it.

827
00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:58.800
But there was some detail of the buildings and stuff in that shot

828
00:36:58.800 --> 00:37:00.059
which I thought looked...

829
00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:04.800
Maybe just like an establishing CGI shot of the scale of it, but

830
00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:06.000
it just feels very contained.

831
00:37:06.059 --> 00:37:08.219
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

832
00:37:08.340 --> 00:37:11.820
And of course, like, this is bizarre as well, sending, sending

833
00:37:11.820 --> 00:37:12.960
trip into par.

834
00:37:13.019 --> 00:37:14.099
I know it's their baby.

835
00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:16.380
They've got such a personal involvement in this.

836
00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:19.679
But there's only 7 people in the cast.

837
00:37:19.739 --> 00:37:21.300
I mean, it has to be them, doesn't it?

838
00:37:21.719 --> 00:37:25.739
Well, maybe send the security officer like this is a clandestine

839
00:37:25.739 --> 00:37:26.159
vision.

840
00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:27.840
Well, he's done his thing.

841
00:37:27.900 --> 00:37:31.500
He went and met that guy in front of a cardboard cityscape.

842
00:37:31.559 --> 00:37:32.579
Oh, I love this.

843
00:37:32.639 --> 00:37:35.579
They literally just go around the corner to have their like sly

844
00:37:35.579 --> 00:37:36.300
conversation.

845
00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:38.699
It's still an earshot of everybody though.

846
00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:40.079
Yeah.

847
00:37:41.039 --> 00:37:46.320
I think there's a there's a relaxed feeling between this pair, like

848
00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:49.800
Conor Trinier and Jolene...

849
00:37:49.860 --> 00:37:50.219
Thank you.

850
00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:53.940
She certainly softened her performance in series one.

851
00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:55.019
Yeah.

852
00:37:55.079 --> 00:37:59.280
Yeah, I actually, I actually quite, I actually quite like it too.

853
00:37:59.340 --> 00:38:00.719
And I did enjoy that.

854
00:38:00.780 --> 00:38:05.280
I do think that they're that the 2 of them are pretty great and

855
00:38:05.280 --> 00:38:06.000
he's wonderful.

856
00:38:06.059 --> 00:38:07.260
I just think he's terrific.

857
00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:10.860
Well, they managed to do in series 3 is something they

858
00:38:10.860 --> 00:38:14.639
spectacularly failed to do in series one and two, and that is to

859
00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:19.500
add an element of sex to the show that was actually a little bit

860
00:38:19.500 --> 00:38:20.219
sexy.

861
00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:26.159
Yeah, yeah. vomit inducing, like, um, rubbing shampoo into the

862
00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:26.519
dog.

863
00:38:27.239 --> 00:38:29.760
That was a different joke.

864
00:38:29.820 --> 00:38:30.780
I don't know.

865
00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:32.880
People who didn't understand that that was a joke.

866
00:38:32.940 --> 00:38:34.199
Yeah, he's a bit built.

867
00:38:34.260 --> 00:38:35.400
Why are you looking at me right now?

868
00:38:35.460 --> 00:38:36.960
Honestly, I'm not looking at you.

869
00:38:37.019 --> 00:38:39.000
I'm looking, Travis.

870
00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:43.139
Yeah, see, like he's an attractive young man.

871
00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:45.599
He could have been on the screen a bit more.

872
00:38:48.719 --> 00:38:51.599
I mean, I do think it was a bit obvious that she was up to no

873
00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:51.900
good.

874
00:38:51.960 --> 00:38:54.780
This this rando coming onto the ship.

875
00:38:54.840 --> 00:38:56.340
Yeah, but she's not up to no good.

876
00:38:56.400 --> 00:38:57.539
Isn't there another twist?

877
00:38:57.599 --> 00:39:00.719
The other twist is actually she really does work for Starfleet

878
00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:01.260
intelligence.

879
00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:02.699
Oh, is there?

880
00:39:02.760 --> 00:39:05.519
I must have completely chipped out and that was revealed.

881
00:39:05.579 --> 00:39:06.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

882
00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:08.940
No, that's the that's the other twist.

883
00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:14.039
The very obvious twist is that she's an evil journalist who is

884
00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:18.659
perhaps a spy for Tara Prime, but then it turns out she's with

885
00:39:18.659 --> 00:39:19.559
Starfleet intelligence.

886
00:39:20.219 --> 00:39:24.300
So I don't know, do we assume that they go off and make pretty

887
00:39:24.300 --> 00:39:25.800
children, probably.

888
00:39:25.860 --> 00:39:27.300
Well, no.

889
00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:31.559
No, but we know that he's, he must be in the, in the final

890
00:39:31.559 --> 00:39:32.159
episode.

891
00:39:32.219 --> 00:39:39.059
So as usual, everyone has no career mobility on this show, or on

892
00:39:39.059 --> 00:39:44.340
any Star Trek show, except maybe Discovery, where people join the

893
00:39:44.340 --> 00:39:46.139
crew and leave the crew and stuff like that.

894
00:39:46.199 --> 00:39:50.699
So they've all been on board Enterprise for 10 years, haven't

895
00:39:50.699 --> 00:39:50.880
they?

896
00:39:50.940 --> 00:39:51.780
Yeah.

897
00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:52.739
Yeah.

898
00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:55.559
Oh, certainly come, come, these are the voyages they have, yeah.

899
00:39:55.619 --> 00:39:56.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

900
00:39:56.820 --> 00:39:58.079
Yeah, that's what I mean.

901
00:39:58.139 --> 00:39:59.820
The weird thing is right.

902
00:39:59.880 --> 00:40:05.280
I know we spend 3 more seasons with TNG, DS9 and the Voyager crew

903
00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:09.119
yeah, but if you pointed out, if you just mentioned any one of the

904
00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:10.079
regulars, yeah.

905
00:40:10.139 --> 00:40:14.039
I could tell you 10 facts and a handful of episodes where they're

906
00:40:14.039 --> 00:40:14.760
highlighted.

907
00:40:14.820 --> 00:40:17.519
Yeah, that was sending them. can't tell you anything about these

908
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:18.059
people.

909
00:40:18.119 --> 00:40:21.659
No, I mean, there are some calls callbacks, aren't there?

910
00:40:21.719 --> 00:40:25.260
Remember, you know, like I got far enough into Enterprise series

911
00:40:25.260 --> 00:40:28.800
one to remember that Hoshi was very nervous about travelling.

912
00:40:28.980 --> 00:40:33.900
Um, you know, uh, um, I believe that's the 1st episode.

913
00:40:33.960 --> 00:40:37.079
Well, yes, yeah, but there's a whole episode about that, isn't

914
00:40:37.079 --> 00:40:37.260
there?

915
00:40:37.380 --> 00:40:39.900
with her little pet slug, yeah.

916
00:40:39.960 --> 00:40:44.699
Yeah. and they do a callback to that, you know, yeah, he's the

917
00:40:44.699 --> 00:40:46.320
other racist black guy.

918
00:40:46.380 --> 00:40:50.340
So, but they know he's not Turner.

919
00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:51.239
They know he's trip.

920
00:40:51.300 --> 00:40:53.340
He's, he's, come on, the soccer, don't they?

921
00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:55.800
Because he's exposed during the speech.

922
00:40:55.860 --> 00:40:57.480
And I thought that was quite a good moment of media.

923
00:40:58.019 --> 00:40:59.940
Because I thought immediately, oh, really?

924
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:02.099
buying this and then, no, they didn't buy it at all.

925
00:41:02.159 --> 00:41:03.179
They know exactly who he is.

926
00:41:03.300 --> 00:41:04.679
Yeah.

927
00:41:04.739 --> 00:41:06.719
Yeah, no, he's super racist.

928
00:41:06.780 --> 00:41:08.099
He's like one of these horrible people.

929
00:41:08.159 --> 00:41:11.460
You know, who just assumed that everyone they talk to is going to

930
00:41:11.460 --> 00:41:12.239
agree with them.

931
00:41:12.300 --> 00:41:16.500
You know, like someone you just meet and who then says something

932
00:41:16.500 --> 00:41:20.340
devastatingly racist and then you think, what made you think that

933
00:41:20.340 --> 00:41:22.199
I would want to hear that?

934
00:41:22.260 --> 00:41:25.800
You know, that dreadful dialogue he had there about, you know, oh

935
00:41:25.800 --> 00:41:27.900
we're going to become 2nd class citizens on our own world.

936
00:41:27.960 --> 00:41:31.260
I have actually heard people in England.

937
00:41:31.320 --> 00:41:34.139
Oh, no, of course. say that about...

938
00:41:34.139 --> 00:41:35.699
It's just a bowling, isn't it?

939
00:41:35.760 --> 00:41:36.179
Yeah, yeah.

940
00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:36.780
Yeah.

941
00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:41.039
Now, I was on a train and this sort of glamorous French lady was

942
00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:45.239
sat opposite me wearing furs and we were talking for a bit and

943
00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:47.880
stuff and she was just glamorous and fabulous and was telling me

944
00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:48.539
all about her life.

945
00:41:48.599 --> 00:41:51.539
And then we were about to get off in Lyon or something and she

946
00:41:51.539 --> 00:41:54.300
warned me about the black people.

947
00:41:54.840 --> 00:42:02.159
Just went, oh, no, we were having such a nice conversation. have

948
00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:03.300
to turn out to be so awful.

949
00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:06.900
It's when it's people like that you work with that you see all the

950
00:42:06.900 --> 00:42:10.199
time. you have no idea until you get onto that.

951
00:42:10.260 --> 00:42:12.659
So you have this sort of sort of basic relationship with these

952
00:42:12.659 --> 00:42:12.960
people.

953
00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:17.280
And then suddenly they'll say something like that it's incredibly

954
00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:21.239
racist and you're like, oh, I've got you all wrong the whole time

955
00:42:21.239 --> 00:42:21.599
you know?

956
00:42:21.659 --> 00:42:23.039
Oh, yuck.

957
00:42:23.099 --> 00:42:29.400
So here, here, um, here they're complaining that Bazindi never

958
00:42:29.400 --> 00:42:32.159
apologised for nuking Florida.

959
00:42:33.119 --> 00:42:35.699
I did quite like that. like the callback.

960
00:42:35.760 --> 00:42:37.260
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

961
00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:40.139
I mean, that was quite a big thing that happened, you know.

962
00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:43.679
And so, and the fact that that terrorist act is basically the

963
00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:46.380
impetus for Terra Prime to come into exist.

964
00:42:46.500 --> 00:42:47.940
Yeah, yeah.

965
00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:50.940
Yeah, although we've always been kind of like this, I guess.

966
00:42:51.179 --> 00:42:55.500
And but yes, so that that is a thing.

967
00:42:55.559 --> 00:43:05.099
And, um, I think I was actually a bit moved by, um, by Tapol's

968
00:43:05.099 --> 00:43:07.019
decision to call the baby Elizabeth, too.

969
00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:10.380
I thought that was really, you know, that was quite a nice

970
00:43:10.380 --> 00:43:11.159
callback.

971
00:43:11.219 --> 00:43:16.199
And particularly since, you know, series 3, um, trip spends a lot

972
00:43:16.199 --> 00:43:20.400
of time just being a proud arsehole because he can just be as

973
00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:23.699
horrible as he wants because he suffered this loss, you know, so

974
00:43:23.699 --> 00:43:28.139
he can, you know, agree to behave in whatever way he likes because

975
00:43:28.139 --> 00:43:30.300
he's been, you know, bereaved.

976
00:43:30.360 --> 00:43:34.380
And that it became an awful thing, you know, like it became a

977
00:43:34.380 --> 00:43:36.059
thing to make trip awful.

978
00:43:36.119 --> 00:43:39.539
And particularly when Tripp had been like super nice and

979
00:43:39.539 --> 00:43:43.860
understanding and, you know, interesting.

980
00:43:43.980 --> 00:43:46.380
Yeah, he was wonderful in coach.

981
00:43:46.440 --> 00:43:49.199
He was the only person on the ship who wasn't just a massive

982
00:43:49.199 --> 00:43:50.639
fucking asshole.

983
00:43:50.699 --> 00:43:54.000
It is really annoying though, because they really go to great

984
00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:56.579
lengths to make that relationship horror book.

985
00:43:56.639 --> 00:43:57.840
Well, no, no, no.

986
00:43:57.900 --> 00:44:01.679
But in season four, to make the relationship between to Pol and

987
00:44:01.679 --> 00:44:02.460
Tripp work.

988
00:44:02.579 --> 00:44:07.019
And to really soften that character and you really like him.

989
00:44:07.139 --> 00:44:12.780
And then the fucking stab you in the back in the last episode to

990
00:44:12.780 --> 00:44:16.739
just arbitrarily killing him off. to try and drive some emotion

991
00:44:16.739 --> 00:44:18.300
out of that horrendous episode.

992
00:44:18.360 --> 00:44:23.159
So I think that there are comic books or tie-in media or something

993
00:44:23.159 --> 00:44:26.519
where it turns out his death was faked and he's gone off

994
00:44:26.519 --> 00:44:28.079
undercover to hunt Romulans.

995
00:44:28.139 --> 00:44:29.219
Oh, please.

996
00:44:29.219 --> 00:44:30.059
Which is.

997
00:44:30.119 --> 00:44:34.800
And everyone's reaction for 4 years of these characters.

998
00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:37.260
It's so muted and so undramatic.

999
00:44:37.320 --> 00:44:38.519
And I was like, what was the point?

1000
00:44:38.579 --> 00:44:40.920
I remember Brian Braggerstage. remember in Voyager that, he felt

1001
00:44:40.920 --> 00:44:43.619
that in order for the finale to work, someone had to be

1002
00:44:43.619 --> 00:44:44.340
sacrificed.

1003
00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:47.760
And I think this actually shows how that might not be a good

1004
00:44:47.760 --> 00:44:48.119
idea.

1005
00:44:48.179 --> 00:44:52.619
No, I think it's a dumb idea and it's a bad instinct on his part.

1006
00:44:52.679 --> 00:44:56.159
Like, I think that someone had to be sacrifice because they cheat

1007
00:44:56.159 --> 00:44:58.920
their way out of it, but they also cheat their way out of the

1008
00:44:58.920 --> 00:45:02.760
sacrifice by making it, by having a spare Janeway, you know, but

1009
00:45:02.760 --> 00:45:05.579
like it, she sacrifices herself.

1010
00:45:05.639 --> 00:45:08.639
If you're going to do it, do it like, I don't know, Damar and what

1011
00:45:08.639 --> 00:45:12.780
you leave behind, where you almost drives home is revolution, or

1012
00:45:12.780 --> 00:45:15.780
make it Weyune, where that's just a satisfying payoff to his

1013
00:45:15.780 --> 00:45:20.340
character, or, you know, Louise Fletcher going off in a in a hail

1014
00:45:20.340 --> 00:45:23.400
of flames, screaming her head off, because we all wanted to see

1015
00:45:23.400 --> 00:45:24.119
that for 7 years.

1016
00:45:24.179 --> 00:45:28.079
I was a bit sad that Peter Weller actually made it to the end of

1017
00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:29.219
episode 2 alive.

1018
00:45:29.519 --> 00:45:35.099
He doesn't get sort of sucked out the airlock or the window or

1019
00:45:35.099 --> 00:45:36.360
whatever when it breaks.

1020
00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:40.199
And, you know, like, I guess it's probably the right thing to put

1021
00:45:40.199 --> 00:45:41.519
him in prison or whatever.

1022
00:45:41.519 --> 00:45:45.179
But, but, and again, you don't want to martyr him either, you know

1023
00:45:45.179 --> 00:45:47.039
like he's just not exciting enough.

1024
00:45:47.099 --> 00:45:53.340
He's not, he's not even Soren, you know, like he's, he's just an

1025
00:45:53.340 --> 00:45:53.760
asshole.

1026
00:45:53.820 --> 00:45:57.539
Like, obviously, I think everything he's saying here is appalling

1027
00:45:57.539 --> 00:46:01.980
but I think it is just convincing enough that you are of the right

1028
00:46:01.980 --> 00:46:05.400
leaning that you would go along with.

1029
00:46:05.400 --> 00:46:06.539
Well, slightly exaggerated.

1030
00:46:06.599 --> 00:46:10.739
And, you know, it's funny, but in 2000, you know, this is pre the

1031
00:46:10.739 --> 00:46:16.079
return of Nazis, you know, like the rise of fascism in, you know

1032
00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:19.679
Brazil and America and and, you know, Italy and all of these

1033
00:46:19.679 --> 00:46:24.300
places that have these sort of crazed ridiculous right wing

1034
00:46:24.300 --> 00:46:24.840
governments.

1035
00:46:24.900 --> 00:46:29.460
And this sort of thing being normalised on social media and

1036
00:46:29.460 --> 00:46:29.760
stuff.

1037
00:46:29.820 --> 00:46:32.219
You know, this is, this is before then.

1038
00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:35.280
So, of course, there are people who are going to buy this shit.

1039
00:46:35.340 --> 00:46:40.260
And so I think it's a good villain because it is plausible.

1040
00:46:40.320 --> 00:46:41.519
Glint in his eye.

1041
00:46:41.579 --> 00:46:43.079
There's no smile.

1042
00:46:43.139 --> 00:46:47.099
He says everything so functionally and so as if this is just a

1043
00:46:47.099 --> 00:46:48.179
natural way to think, you know?

1044
00:46:48.239 --> 00:46:48.960
Yeah.

1045
00:46:48.960 --> 00:46:50.280
Yeah, no, like this.

1046
00:46:50.340 --> 00:46:51.659
Did you like this PGI?

1047
00:46:51.719 --> 00:46:53.699
Oh, look, he just smiled.

1048
00:46:53.820 --> 00:46:55.380
Oh, yes.

1049
00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:56.519
Here we go.

1050
00:46:56.639 --> 00:46:59.460
Yeah, look, see, that's recently detailed, isn't it?

1051
00:46:59.519 --> 00:47:03.599
It looks like a stupid fucking jellyfish or something.

1052
00:47:03.659 --> 00:47:06.300
It is like it's boxes of things.

1053
00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:07.440
I guess that's what they're going.

1054
00:47:07.559 --> 00:47:08.219
But I did like this.

1055
00:47:08.280 --> 00:47:09.599
The whole mining facility.

1056
00:47:09.719 --> 00:47:11.760
That's quite a fun idea. takes off.

1057
00:47:11.820 --> 00:47:15.719
And then where it lands and shooting at the moon and I thought

1058
00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:18.059
okay, they're trying to, trying to give this a bit of scale in the

1059
00:47:18.059 --> 00:47:18.840
solar system here.

1060
00:47:18.900 --> 00:47:21.840
Yeah, and also it's not like a starship.

1061
00:47:21.900 --> 00:47:24.360
So the whole thing is just shaking because they're in motion

1062
00:47:24.360 --> 00:47:28.679
because they're a, you know, a base, not a ship taking off.

1063
00:47:28.739 --> 00:47:30.900
Oh, I don't know about the flames.

1064
00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:33.659
The biggest problem though, you know, is I never quite thought

1065
00:47:33.659 --> 00:47:35.519
well, this is never going to succeed.

1066
00:47:35.579 --> 00:47:36.599
Not because I know that.

1067
00:47:36.599 --> 00:47:39.420
I just was never convinced by the threat, I don't think.

1068
00:47:39.480 --> 00:47:44.760
Well, I think part of the problem too is that you don't have any

1069
00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:48.900
people, you know, like we just have people telling us what's

1070
00:47:48.900 --> 00:47:50.219
happening about people leaving.

1071
00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:51.780
We don't really see anything.

1072
00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:53.219
We don't see any riots.

1073
00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:54.420
We don't see any protests.

1074
00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:58.380
We're told, remember, by the Andorians, that there are people

1075
00:47:58.380 --> 00:48:02.280
having these mass demonstrations outside their embassy or

1076
00:48:02.280 --> 00:48:02.639
something.

1077
00:48:02.699 --> 00:48:05.519
You know, like there's all of this stuff that we get told about

1078
00:48:05.519 --> 00:48:07.800
but we don't get to see it because we can't afford it.

1079
00:48:07.860 --> 00:48:12.900
And whilst there are sort of franchise steaks. involved here, i.e

1080
00:48:12.900 --> 00:48:16.920
if this fails, we won't have the federation and we won't have TOS

1081
00:48:16.920 --> 00:48:17.820
and blah, blah, blah.

1082
00:48:17.880 --> 00:48:20.400
There's no character stakes for this, was it?

1083
00:48:20.460 --> 00:48:24.420
Beyond the baby, which is a very artificial character state

1084
00:48:24.420 --> 00:48:26.940
because where's that baby come from?

1085
00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:29.820
We're not going to keep that baby around and it's very

1086
00:48:29.820 --> 00:48:31.920
manipulative at the end where they murder it off.

1087
00:48:31.980 --> 00:48:36.480
So like, yeah, there's no, like, the thing that DS9 always got

1088
00:48:36.480 --> 00:48:36.840
right.

1089
00:48:36.900 --> 00:48:42.539
And the thing that Voyager TNG often got right was it did, uh, the

1090
00:48:42.539 --> 00:48:44.820
episodes were character late. was there?

1091
00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:46.380
I don't think there's much of that going on here.

1092
00:48:46.440 --> 00:48:51.659
No, so there's no, so even the instinct to have trips sister

1093
00:48:51.659 --> 00:48:57.840
killed in the Zindi attack makes, like brings it home and makes it

1094
00:48:57.840 --> 00:49:01.679
immediately important to one of our characters, right?

1095
00:49:01.739 --> 00:49:06.059
Um, And here, you're right.

1096
00:49:06.119 --> 00:49:08.880
I think the, you asked the question before, why is the baby

1097
00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:09.420
there?

1098
00:49:09.480 --> 00:49:13.800
And I think the baby is there so that this matters to trip and to

1099
00:49:13.800 --> 00:49:17.159
polls so that they have some stake and it's outcome?

1100
00:49:17.219 --> 00:49:23.219
And I did think that the death of the baby while inevitable was a

1101
00:49:23.219 --> 00:49:24.300
bit of a cheat.

1102
00:49:24.420 --> 00:49:26.340
Okay, they knew they were heading here.

1103
00:49:26.400 --> 00:49:29.639
Like I said, they ceded this two-parter throughout the season.

1104
00:49:29.699 --> 00:49:30.780
If they knew they were headed here.

1105
00:49:30.840 --> 00:49:33.119
Why didn't they have a child at the beginning of the season?

1106
00:49:33.179 --> 00:49:37.559
And then the child was taken off them and this plot occurred at

1107
00:49:37.559 --> 00:49:37.860
the end?

1108
00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:41.099
Oh, because I don't think that that wouldn't at least have had

1109
00:49:41.099 --> 00:49:42.599
some real stakes, you know?

1110
00:49:42.659 --> 00:49:43.739
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1111
00:49:43.800 --> 00:49:46.619
Rather than just someone's found some of their used hankies and

1112
00:49:46.619 --> 00:49:48.960
have made a baby out of the DNA or whatever.

1113
00:49:49.019 --> 00:49:52.679
Like, fair enough, but I don't think the show could have survived

1114
00:49:52.679 --> 00:49:55.500
them having an actual baby that was kidnapped.

1115
00:49:55.559 --> 00:49:56.280
Do you know what I mean?

1116
00:49:56.340 --> 00:49:57.780
Like, why would you do anything else?

1117
00:49:57.840 --> 00:50:02.099
I'll just go off and explore Rygel 10 and maybe someone will tell

1118
00:50:02.099 --> 00:50:03.300
me what happened to the baby.

1119
00:50:03.360 --> 00:50:04.199
Do you know what I mean?

1120
00:50:04.260 --> 00:50:06.000
Like, no, that's just not going to happen.

1121
00:50:06.059 --> 00:50:07.019
You can't do that.

1122
00:50:08.579 --> 00:50:12.059
Oh, here we go now. heading down to where are we going?

1123
00:50:12.119 --> 00:50:14.760
I think we're going to Mars, aren't we?

1124
00:50:15.179 --> 00:50:18.119
I think horses all looks quite nice, you know?

1125
00:50:18.179 --> 00:50:22.920
Again, it is that sort of washed out CGI, unfortunately, but yeah

1126
00:50:22.920 --> 00:50:23.579
yeah.

1127
00:50:23.639 --> 00:50:27.239
Like, I think I feel like in Kurtzman trick, they're really good

1128
00:50:27.239 --> 00:50:29.880
they use lots of vivid colours, don't they?

1129
00:50:29.940 --> 00:50:31.139
sort of make it artistic.

1130
00:50:31.199 --> 00:50:32.519
This looks pretty good.

1131
00:50:32.579 --> 00:50:35.460
I do think this looks pretty good and I think that Verderon array

1132
00:50:35.460 --> 00:50:38.579
thing with the big basket on the end of it looks pretty great.

1133
00:50:38.639 --> 00:50:42.659
I like the way that the legs come down and it lands, you know, a

1134
00:50:42.659 --> 00:50:43.800
bit like Voyager on a planet.

1135
00:50:43.860 --> 00:50:44.699
Yeah.

1136
00:50:44.760 --> 00:50:46.920
Oh, that's a bit shit actually.

1137
00:50:48.539 --> 00:50:51.960
Well, because she looks like an enormous toilet bowl.

1138
00:50:52.019 --> 00:50:54.300
It looks like an enormous toilet bowl on a planet.

1139
00:50:54.360 --> 00:50:57.000
No, I meant that, the thing lands.

1140
00:50:57.059 --> 00:50:58.019
There's no real weight to it.

1141
00:50:58.139 --> 00:51:01.500
Oh, I like the arms. also a cartoon.

1142
00:51:01.559 --> 00:51:03.179
Like all of this.

1143
00:51:03.300 --> 00:51:03.840
That's a problem.

1144
00:51:03.900 --> 00:51:04.800
It just looks like a.

1145
00:51:04.860 --> 00:51:06.179
It is a cartoon note.

1146
00:51:06.239 --> 00:51:08.039
Yeah, no, but it looks like a cartoon.

1147
00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:13.800
It's like Babylon 5, which I've never heard of.

1148
00:51:13.860 --> 00:51:17.219
It's just I'll have to educate you about that one day.

1149
00:51:18.059 --> 00:51:19.920
Life's too long.

1150
00:51:20.219 --> 00:51:22.440
We've watched DS9, right?

1151
00:51:22.500 --> 00:51:24.000
Yeah, yeah, basically.

1152
00:51:24.059 --> 00:51:28.260
But even now, when he delivers his speech about, you know, you

1153
00:51:28.260 --> 00:51:31.920
either get rid of all the aliens or, you know, we're going to

1154
00:51:31.920 --> 00:51:33.960
attack, you can use this array.

1155
00:51:34.019 --> 00:51:35.280
San Francisco.

1156
00:51:35.340 --> 00:51:38.579
I've just said it went way brawls in San Francisco.

1157
00:51:41.820 --> 00:51:45.239
But I've just said that speech with way more passion than he does

1158
00:51:45.239 --> 00:51:47.880
because he's just like, oh, well, you know, this is going to

1159
00:51:47.880 --> 00:51:48.179
happen.

1160
00:51:48.239 --> 00:51:49.380
So just do it, all right?

1161
00:51:49.500 --> 00:51:50.760
No, it's great.

1162
00:51:50.820 --> 00:51:53.820
It's like a giant villain speech that he completely throws away

1163
00:51:53.820 --> 00:51:57.719
because he rightly decides that he just has to seem pathetic

1164
00:51:57.719 --> 00:52:01.679
rather than charismatic and he does.

1165
00:52:01.739 --> 00:52:02.940
Are we drilling a hole in the moon?

1166
00:52:03.360 --> 00:52:06.539
Yeah, I thought, I could, I thought for a 2nd there.

1167
00:52:06.599 --> 00:52:07.079
I can't remember.

1168
00:52:07.199 --> 00:52:08.039
It was quite a big hole.

1169
00:52:08.039 --> 00:52:09.719
Blowing up in this?

1170
00:52:09.780 --> 00:52:11.099
Yeah, that's right.

1171
00:52:11.159 --> 00:52:12.599
The moon's there in the future, isn't it?

1172
00:52:12.719 --> 00:52:13.980
I thought it was an egg.

1173
00:52:16.800 --> 00:52:18.960
Oh, dear.

1174
00:52:19.019 --> 00:52:19.920
Yeah.

1175
00:52:19.980 --> 00:52:20.579
Yeah.

1176
00:52:20.639 --> 00:52:22.739
This is a big cliffhanger, is it?

1177
00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:24.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1178
00:52:24.599 --> 00:52:28.380
We've had like across 90s track.

1179
00:52:28.440 --> 00:52:30.840
We've had way more impressive cliffhangers than this.

1180
00:52:30.900 --> 00:52:31.619
Yeah.

1181
00:52:31.679 --> 00:52:33.659
You know, this is how we're going out.

1182
00:52:33.719 --> 00:52:36.780
Maybe it should have been the ultimate cliffhanger, you know?

1183
00:52:36.840 --> 00:52:41.159
But, you know, like to discover that this is what Earth is like

1184
00:52:41.159 --> 00:52:47.400
that there is a significant kind of fascist minority who are going

1185
00:52:47.400 --> 00:52:51.900
to prevent us from being involved in the wider world.

1186
00:52:51.960 --> 00:52:54.360
You know, like, I think that's a very real thing.

1187
00:52:54.420 --> 00:52:57.360
I mean, it's you just had Brexit, for God's sake.

1188
00:52:57.420 --> 00:52:59.820
Like it's a very, very real thing.

1189
00:52:59.940 --> 00:53:02.039
You had a job, didn't you?

1190
00:53:02.099 --> 00:53:03.719
Yeah, well, yeah. you know.

1191
00:53:04.079 --> 00:53:06.840
I thought that was quite enjoyable, you know?

1192
00:53:06.900 --> 00:53:09.900
Yeah, I think that is pretty, that's pretty reasonable, I think

1193
00:53:09.900 --> 00:53:13.320
you know, and I do think the stakes are great and I do like the

1194
00:53:13.320 --> 00:53:16.980
fact that we are in the solar system and that we're spending our

1195
00:53:16.980 --> 00:53:19.679
time on earth and worrying about what's happening on earth.

1196
00:53:19.739 --> 00:53:23.760
And I think maybe enterprise is the show that could have done that

1197
00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:30.059
all along that could have used Earth as a base and told an ongoing

1198
00:53:30.059 --> 00:53:30.420
story.

1199
00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:33.659
It's clear that that's what they wanted to do originally and what

1200
00:53:33.659 --> 00:53:34.619
allowed to do.

1201
00:53:34.679 --> 00:53:38.699
So, or they just go, oh, well, we'll go off and tell Star Trek

1202
00:53:38.699 --> 00:53:42.900
stories or whatever, but they could have been talking about Earth

1203
00:53:42.900 --> 00:53:46.980
all along rather than just leaving it to Manny in series 4 to sort

1204
00:53:46.980 --> 00:53:50.940
of seed the seeds and then finally do it at the end.

1205
00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:54.659
You know, we could have been heading in this direction. all along

1206
00:53:54.659 --> 00:53:54.840
I think.

1207
00:53:55.920 --> 00:53:57.960
All right, what do you reckon?

1208
00:53:58.019 --> 00:53:59.159
Should we go into the 2nd one?

1209
00:53:59.340 --> 00:54:03.840
Yes, into the finale of enterprise.

1210
00:54:03.900 --> 00:54:07.260
Finale Enterprise, the penultimate episode.

1211
00:54:07.320 --> 00:54:11.579
All right, so queue up Terra Prime, and I'll count it in.

1212
00:54:11.760 --> 00:54:17.460
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

1213
00:54:18.059 --> 00:54:20.280
We are off.

1214
00:54:20.340 --> 00:54:20.699
Here we go.

1215
00:54:20.760 --> 00:54:22.139
Previously on Enterprise.

1216
00:54:22.199 --> 00:54:23.400
Yeah.

1217
00:54:23.460 --> 00:54:25.980
Yeah, you see, I think I'm right about those buildings.

1218
00:54:26.039 --> 00:54:30.480
They look just like horribly concrete and dull, the CG buildings

1219
00:54:30.480 --> 00:54:32.400
and then, you know, the service.

1220
00:54:32.400 --> 00:54:35.820
Come to a CGI landscape. and it looks exactly as gray and dull.

1221
00:54:35.880 --> 00:54:41.460
The baby CGIE is that just about move at the same rate as the

1222
00:54:41.460 --> 00:54:45.780
baby's head does, which is quite good, but not completely there.

1223
00:54:46.380 --> 00:54:48.420
Yeah, yeah.

1224
00:54:48.480 --> 00:54:49.920
I mean, I don't understand.

1225
00:54:49.980 --> 00:54:50.940
So all right.

1226
00:54:51.000 --> 00:54:53.340
So she's never been pregnant, right?

1227
00:54:53.400 --> 00:54:55.320
And so she doesn't know where the baby comes from.

1228
00:54:55.380 --> 00:54:59.340
But last episode, I think Tripp was suspicious of her and thought

1229
00:54:59.340 --> 00:55:03.840
didn't really understand that, you know, that she, like, didn't

1230
00:55:03.840 --> 00:55:06.059
believe her or something, like she has to tell him?

1231
00:55:06.059 --> 00:55:07.500
No, he actually says that.

1232
00:55:07.559 --> 00:55:08.460
He goes to Flocks, doesn't he?

1233
00:55:08.579 --> 00:55:10.559
And say, oh, I don't know, she's telling me the truth or not, you

1234
00:55:10.559 --> 00:55:10.739
know.

1235
00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:12.420
Yeah, yeah, but it's like you work together.

1236
00:55:12.480 --> 00:55:13.860
You see it, like if you...

1237
00:55:13.860 --> 00:55:14.940
Are you in a relationship?

1238
00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:16.019
Do you share a bed?

1239
00:55:16.079 --> 00:55:20.579
Maybe she was just she was just wearing a big floaty coat with

1240
00:55:20.579 --> 00:55:21.900
like tools in it.

1241
00:55:22.980 --> 00:55:26.579
There was a handy console to hide behind.

1242
00:55:26.639 --> 00:55:30.599
That's right for a few months before she gave birth.

1243
00:55:31.980 --> 00:55:35.519
Now, look, I think that sort of montage of clips at the beginning

1244
00:55:35.519 --> 00:55:35.940
of that.

1245
00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:39.480
You know, it gives a fair idea of what's happening in series one.

1246
00:55:39.539 --> 00:55:42.659
Had you left the series at some point in series one because it was

1247
00:55:42.659 --> 00:55:45.840
just so tedious to keep watching and then came back just for the

1248
00:55:45.840 --> 00:55:48.539
end just to see what's been going on in the meantime?

1249
00:55:48.599 --> 00:55:50.760
I don't know if you'd be that enticed, you know, like you'd be

1250
00:55:50.760 --> 00:55:54.059
like, okay, this is better, but it's...

1251
00:55:54.059 --> 00:55:56.219
It's still a bit mundane, just a bit.

1252
00:55:56.280 --> 00:55:58.320
Yeah, I mean, it's earth.

1253
00:55:58.380 --> 00:56:01.320
I think that bigs the stakes up in a way that that's what I liked

1254
00:56:01.320 --> 00:56:01.860
about this.

1255
00:56:01.920 --> 00:56:03.719
It wasn't just a space thing that was happening.

1256
00:56:03.960 --> 00:56:08.039
There was sort of, like, sort of limp and rudimentary politics

1257
00:56:08.039 --> 00:56:13.380
involved, you know, but it was about Earth, and it was about our

1258
00:56:13.380 --> 00:56:17.639
crew and it was about the future and all of that, you know, and

1259
00:56:17.639 --> 00:56:19.260
what humanity is.

1260
00:56:19.320 --> 00:56:23.340
Like it's got some sort of ambition beyond just this week's space

1261
00:56:23.340 --> 00:56:23.880
problem.

1262
00:56:23.940 --> 00:56:25.500
And I guess that's what I liked.

1263
00:56:25.559 --> 00:56:28.679
And I thought that that gave it the sort of scale that the movies

1264
00:56:28.679 --> 00:56:34.679
have, you know, like because we're at the end, We can change the

1265
00:56:34.679 --> 00:56:39.300
status quo and enterprise, like Deep Space 9, because they've

1266
00:56:39.300 --> 00:56:45.179
reinvented themselves, do have episodes that change the status quo

1267
00:56:45.179 --> 00:56:46.139
in interesting ways.

1268
00:56:46.199 --> 00:56:48.719
They're certainly not going to change the status quo with the

1269
00:56:48.719 --> 00:56:49.800
franchise, though, are they?

1270
00:56:49.860 --> 00:56:50.940
No, no, no, no.

1271
00:56:51.059 --> 00:56:52.019
Last goals.

1272
00:56:52.079 --> 00:56:53.940
No, no, no.

1273
00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:56.699
And here it is just very much, oh, just give us a bit more time

1274
00:56:56.699 --> 00:56:59.639
and the racists will get over it within 5 years and then we'll

1275
00:56:59.639 --> 00:57:01.679
found the Federation after that, if that's okay.

1276
00:57:01.739 --> 00:57:05.159
You know, like, it's not that great. conclusion.

1277
00:57:05.219 --> 00:57:08.820
I can buy it, though, because they're suggesting that this Terra

1278
00:57:08.820 --> 00:57:11.519
Prime is a fairly sizeable operation.

1279
00:57:11.820 --> 00:57:13.559
And so what?

1280
00:57:13.619 --> 00:57:16.679
Just because they're defeated at the end of this, all that racism

1281
00:57:16.679 --> 00:57:17.280
just goes away.

1282
00:57:17.340 --> 00:57:18.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1283
00:57:18.480 --> 00:57:19.559
In 5 years.

1284
00:57:19.619 --> 00:57:22.320
Not entirely sure that's how psychology works, you know?

1285
00:57:22.920 --> 00:57:27.659
A plot, a plot convenience and everyone suddenly drops their

1286
00:57:27.659 --> 00:57:28.380
xenophobia.

1287
00:57:28.440 --> 00:57:29.760
No, I'll have to do it.

1288
00:57:29.820 --> 00:57:31.800
Oh, the baby is cute though.

1289
00:57:31.860 --> 00:57:33.659
The baby is really cute.

1290
00:57:33.719 --> 00:57:35.579
And it's sort of bizarre, isn't it?

1291
00:57:35.639 --> 00:57:40.139
Because this guy is such a fucking nutcase that he just thinks

1292
00:57:40.139 --> 00:57:42.960
we're all going to be super threatened by this baby with slightly

1293
00:57:42.960 --> 00:57:47.579
weird ears, you know, like, like, and everyone's sort of there in

1294
00:57:47.579 --> 00:57:49.619
horror thinking, what is wrong with this guy?

1295
00:57:49.679 --> 00:57:52.800
And, you know, like you've got a room full of blue people and

1296
00:57:52.800 --> 00:57:55.980
people with things grafted into their heads and stuff and they're

1297
00:57:55.980 --> 00:57:58.500
kind of going, well, what is, wants this planner?

1298
00:57:58.559 --> 00:58:02.760
You know, you and I, in sort of nearly 60 episodes of on top, it's

1299
00:58:02.760 --> 00:58:03.300
not a project.

1300
00:58:03.300 --> 00:58:07.860
Now, we suffered through, you know, a lot of tortured backstory of

1301
00:58:07.860 --> 00:58:09.420
these 90 Star Trek characters.

1302
00:58:09.480 --> 00:58:10.380
What's his again?

1303
00:58:10.440 --> 00:58:12.179
There is a story there, isn't there?

1304
00:58:12.239 --> 00:58:14.699
As to why he's so terribly racist.

1305
00:58:14.760 --> 00:58:17.159
No, I just think he's an asshole, isn't he?

1306
00:58:17.219 --> 00:58:18.840
he was on Mars or something?

1307
00:58:18.900 --> 00:58:19.800
I can't remember, actually.

1308
00:58:19.860 --> 00:58:20.820
Does he have a backstory?

1309
00:58:21.659 --> 00:58:25.380
Maybe because like, you know, I would never stop going on about

1310
00:58:25.380 --> 00:58:25.559
that.

1311
00:58:25.679 --> 00:58:29.159
Fabulous woman from the Serene Squall, taking Mickey out of the

1312
00:58:29.159 --> 00:58:29.760
backstories.

1313
00:58:29.820 --> 00:58:33.840
But because her backstory was so over the top and the fact that's

1314
00:58:33.840 --> 00:58:34.079
right.

1315
00:58:34.139 --> 00:58:37.860
We forget about it is because it's a bit dull, you know?

1316
00:58:37.920 --> 00:58:39.300
Yeah, I think that might be it.

1317
00:58:39.420 --> 00:58:41.400
Oh, look, he's got a logo.

1318
00:58:41.460 --> 00:58:44.699
It's a very shitty graphic designers on staff.

1319
00:58:47.219 --> 00:58:52.199
They've had meetings about meetings about just finding that logo.

1320
00:58:52.260 --> 00:58:53.460
Yeah, that's right.

1321
00:58:53.519 --> 00:58:54.780
Oh, hang on a minute.

1322
00:58:54.840 --> 00:58:57.420
Now, look, we're about to head out at 90s treking, and we've got a

1323
00:58:57.420 --> 00:58:58.739
few explosions that are carrying on the bridge.

1324
00:58:58.800 --> 00:58:59.340
Any rocks?

1325
00:58:59.400 --> 00:59:06.420
No, no rocks, but we did have the verder on array, like hit them

1326
00:59:06.420 --> 00:59:07.619
which was kind of exciting.

1327
00:59:07.679 --> 00:59:09.840
Would you look at that wall there?

1328
00:59:09.960 --> 00:59:13.920
That dreary arse wall with the stars on it. you see it?

1329
00:59:13.980 --> 00:59:15.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1330
00:59:15.360 --> 00:59:19.739
I reckon the production, like that's some set dressing that

1331
00:59:19.739 --> 00:59:23.699
they've done to this incredibly cheap hotel conference room that

1332
00:59:23.699 --> 00:59:24.480
they're all meeting in.

1333
00:59:24.539 --> 00:59:27.000
Oh, I've been to some Doctor Who conventions where they made more

1334
00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:27.960
of an effort than that, you know?

1335
00:59:28.019 --> 00:59:32.519
Yeah, it does look like the location for a Doctor Who convention

1336
00:59:32.519 --> 00:59:32.760
actually.

1337
00:59:32.880 --> 00:59:36.599
Like that's the room where everyone set up the tables to get

1338
00:59:36.599 --> 00:59:40.320
signed photographs of Sarah Sutton or something. absolutely

1339
00:59:40.320 --> 00:59:42.780
obsessed about those Andorian appendages.

1340
00:59:42.840 --> 00:59:43.739
What did they do?

1341
00:59:43.739 --> 00:59:44.760
What did they do?

1342
00:59:44.820 --> 00:59:46.679
The antennae.

1343
00:59:46.739 --> 00:59:48.360
They're antennae.

1344
00:59:48.420 --> 00:59:49.980
Well, they...

1345
00:59:49.980 --> 00:59:54.300
No, they detect something that they probably smell...

1346
00:59:54.300 --> 00:59:55.619
I'd love what that was like.

1347
00:59:55.619 --> 00:59:57.179
Insects do with their antennas?

1348
00:59:57.239 --> 00:59:59.460
When they're turned on, they just wiggle a bit more or something

1349
00:59:59.460 --> 00:59:59.880
like that.

1350
00:59:59.940 --> 01:00:00.780
It probably happens.

1351
01:00:00.840 --> 01:00:03.960
He's probably got the hots for Harry Groner there, that guy.

1352
01:00:04.019 --> 01:00:06.780
There was that young fella, that Vulcan man, isn't it?

1353
01:00:06.840 --> 01:00:08.099
been in it right from the 1st episode.

1354
01:00:08.159 --> 01:00:09.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1355
01:00:09.480 --> 01:00:12.420
I think that's a good callback too, because he gets to see Archer

1356
01:00:12.420 --> 01:00:15.539
being not an asshole. you know, like being a citizen of the

1357
01:00:15.539 --> 01:00:16.139
galaxy.

1358
01:00:16.199 --> 01:00:18.059
I think that's a good kind of...

1359
01:00:18.059 --> 01:00:20.940
I mean, being a non-veteran of enterprise, as you are.

1360
01:00:21.059 --> 01:00:25.440
He actually does appear, I think, in a good sort of 1020 episodes

1361
01:00:25.440 --> 01:00:28.980
throughout the run and develops quite a relationship with Captain

1362
01:00:28.980 --> 01:00:30.239
Archer over time.

1363
01:00:30.300 --> 01:00:30.900
Okay, yeah.

1364
01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:33.539
Because it's adversarial at the beginning, isn't it?

1365
01:00:33.599 --> 01:00:35.280
Because they're...

1366
01:00:35.280 --> 01:00:38.159
That's one of the my big turnoffs.

1367
01:00:38.219 --> 01:00:41.039
Well, I think they repair the Falcons, don't they?

1368
01:00:41.099 --> 01:00:44.519
Like they try and tell the story of how they came from being sort

1369
01:00:44.519 --> 01:00:45.780
of obnoxious.

1370
01:00:46.440 --> 01:00:50.940
Yeah, they're doing it. your word peril, aren't they?

1371
01:00:51.000 --> 01:00:54.420
Yeah, you could have attacked all the domed cities and all that.

1372
01:00:54.420 --> 01:00:55.380
Yes, on Mars.

1373
01:00:55.440 --> 01:00:57.719
We don't even see a domed city on Mars.

1374
01:00:57.780 --> 01:01:03.300
We see, we see um, that little Carl Sagan monument to the 1st

1375
01:01:03.300 --> 01:01:06.780
tractor on Mars or whatever, um, which I think is a cute

1376
01:01:06.780 --> 01:01:07.500
callback.

1377
01:01:07.559 --> 01:01:10.320
You just missed the one line of dialogue there where they said the

1378
01:01:10.320 --> 01:01:12.300
array could even reach Meridian free.

1379
01:01:12.659 --> 01:01:14.579
Yeah, that's right.

1380
01:01:14.639 --> 01:01:16.199
My God.

1381
01:01:17.159 --> 01:01:20.400
Poor farmers or whatever the fuck they were.

1382
01:01:20.460 --> 01:01:23.460
All 230000000 of them.

1383
01:01:23.519 --> 01:01:24.599
Oh, no.

1384
01:01:24.659 --> 01:01:26.699
See, this is where he talks about how they actually made the

1385
01:01:26.699 --> 01:01:26.940
boat.

1386
01:01:27.000 --> 01:01:27.780
Like, we don't care.

1387
01:01:27.840 --> 01:01:29.639
Don't explain it.

1388
01:01:29.699 --> 01:01:34.260
Yeah, they just got one of Tripp's socks from under his bed and I

1389
01:01:34.260 --> 01:01:37.860
don't know how they got...

1390
01:01:39.360 --> 01:01:41.519
How did they get her eggs?

1391
01:01:41.579 --> 01:01:42.360
I don't really know.

1392
01:01:42.420 --> 01:01:46.019
But maybe they just, they caused biosis down.

1393
01:01:46.079 --> 01:01:48.420
I don't believe you just said that.

1394
01:01:48.480 --> 01:01:50.880
Oh, Jesus.

1395
01:01:50.880 --> 01:01:52.559
Oh, I don't know.

1396
01:01:52.679 --> 01:01:53.880
I don't know how you do this.

1397
01:01:56.820 --> 01:02:00.360
Oh, sorry, I thought you were calling the soccer wank rack.

1398
01:02:00.420 --> 01:02:02.219
Yeah, I know that's what I was doing.

1399
01:02:02.280 --> 01:02:03.480
Oh, well, yeah, you were.

1400
01:02:03.900 --> 01:02:05.579
No, you got it, my subtle joke.

1401
01:02:07.199 --> 01:02:09.780
Wow, dear, dear.

1402
01:02:09.840 --> 01:02:10.440
Right now.

1403
01:02:10.500 --> 01:02:13.800
There's a bit of sort of running around now, you know, there's a

1404
01:02:13.800 --> 01:02:16.199
bit of hanging around before that.

1405
01:02:16.320 --> 01:02:21.179
So here's the real city and now he's our fake city as well.

1406
01:02:21.239 --> 01:02:22.559
They have one meeting place.

1407
01:02:22.619 --> 01:02:24.420
Like, they can't meet at a bar.

1408
01:02:24.480 --> 01:02:25.199
Like what are they doing?

1409
01:02:25.260 --> 01:02:26.940
No, no, what is it with this?

1410
01:02:27.000 --> 01:02:28.920
And X-Miles isn't immune to this.

1411
01:02:28.980 --> 01:02:32.039
Whenever you go meet somewhere for a clandestine meeting.

1412
01:02:32.099 --> 01:02:33.119
There's a lot of smoke.

1413
01:02:33.179 --> 01:02:36.300
There's a lot of dry ice pumping in, you know, it's the most

1414
01:02:36.300 --> 01:02:41.820
disturbingly menacing looking place imaginable. street meeting

1415
01:02:41.820 --> 01:02:43.559
meeting deep throat in the car park.

1416
01:02:43.619 --> 01:02:45.840
You know, the Nixon investigation.

1417
01:02:45.900 --> 01:02:46.679
Is that what that is?

1418
01:02:46.739 --> 01:02:51.179
It would seem, it would be less obvious. they just met in a cafe?

1419
01:02:51.239 --> 01:02:52.559
Not a conversation, right?

1420
01:02:52.619 --> 01:02:55.860
Anyone sees them, it's like, you know, this guy's in black leather

1421
01:02:55.860 --> 01:02:58.019
and this other guy's looking a bit sketchy.

1422
01:02:58.019 --> 01:03:00.539
Well, they could be thinking something else is going on.

1423
01:03:00.599 --> 01:03:01.500
They could be, actually.

1424
01:03:01.559 --> 01:03:02.579
Yeah.

1425
01:03:02.639 --> 01:03:04.800
Actually, that would be funny, wouldn't it?

1426
01:03:04.800 --> 01:03:05.940
Imagine a posh accent.

1427
01:03:06.000 --> 01:03:07.980
You just have to throw him against the wall and snog him.

1428
01:03:10.559 --> 01:03:15.000
Although may I say that Malcolm Reed has not become any more

1429
01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:16.920
interesting.

1430
01:03:16.980 --> 01:03:19.320
And this is all he gets to do, isn't it?

1431
01:03:19.380 --> 01:03:22.500
He gets these 2 scenes with Harris, and it's basically

1432
01:03:22.500 --> 01:03:24.360
exposition.

1433
01:03:24.420 --> 01:03:26.880
Like Harris gives him some much needed exposition.

1434
01:03:26.940 --> 01:03:31.619
I don't know how much of series 3 that you explored, but those

1435
01:03:31.619 --> 01:03:36.000
sequences where the, well, they called Macos, the military men

1436
01:03:36.000 --> 01:03:40.199
come on board, and then Malcolm Reid's truly jealous of the Maco

1437
01:03:40.199 --> 01:03:40.679
leader.

1438
01:03:40.920 --> 01:03:43.320
And then they have a whole episode where they're beating the shit

1439
01:03:43.320 --> 01:03:44.940
out of each other, like in practice.

1440
01:03:45.000 --> 01:03:50.280
Oh God, it's just a appallingly macho characterisation.

1441
01:03:50.340 --> 01:03:51.539
It's terrible.

1442
01:03:51.599 --> 01:03:54.480
Stephen Culp, though, he's a guy, isn't he?

1443
01:03:54.539 --> 01:03:55.739
Like he's a that guy.

1444
01:03:55.800 --> 01:03:58.860
He's seen everything, that head Maco guy.

1445
01:03:58.920 --> 01:04:03.599
Yeah, like they put soldiers on the Enterprise on Enterprise.

1446
01:04:03.659 --> 01:04:04.619
It's crappy.

1447
01:04:05.099 --> 01:04:07.440
Very live series free.

1448
01:04:07.500 --> 01:04:08.280
Yeah.

1449
01:04:09.059 --> 01:04:10.139
Dear idea.

1450
01:04:10.199 --> 01:04:13.380
I like the, I just like that they're a bit bolder with it, you

1451
01:04:13.380 --> 01:04:14.099
know, they're...

1452
01:04:14.099 --> 01:04:17.159
Yeah, yeah, but there's bold and there's bold.

1453
01:04:17.219 --> 01:04:21.179
I just don't think that's a, you know, like they, like just having

1454
01:04:21.179 --> 01:04:23.880
them do terrible things and then not get punished for it.

1455
01:04:23.940 --> 01:04:25.079
I think what's the point of that?

1456
01:04:25.199 --> 01:04:26.099
What are we doing?

1457
01:04:26.159 --> 01:04:28.920
Well, I think then your reaction for this goes to show that you're

1458
01:04:28.920 --> 01:04:32.039
far more intuitive, more money, Koto's doing with the show.

1459
01:04:32.099 --> 01:04:32.519
Yeah, yeah.

1460
01:04:32.579 --> 01:04:33.300
Yeah, yeah.

1461
01:04:33.780 --> 01:04:38.280
Yeah, well, like I said, what's at stake is the very ethics, you

1462
01:04:38.280 --> 01:04:41.760
know, it's like the series one finale of discovery, which is all

1463
01:04:41.760 --> 01:04:46.679
about, do we decide to do the bad thing, or do we adhere to our

1464
01:04:46.679 --> 01:04:47.099
ideals?

1465
01:04:47.159 --> 01:04:52.440
Now she's put a beanie on the baby so that we don't have to do its

1466
01:04:52.440 --> 01:04:56.340
ears in post-production.

1467
01:04:56.400 --> 01:05:01.139
But remember that Spock wears the beanie and I don't even know

1468
01:05:01.139 --> 01:05:02.219
which episode it is.

1469
01:05:02.280 --> 01:05:03.539
So he goes down to it.

1470
01:05:03.599 --> 01:05:04.139
Yeah, yeah.

1471
01:05:04.199 --> 01:05:04.739
Yeah.

1472
01:05:04.800 --> 01:05:06.119
That's the biggie, isn't it?

1473
01:05:06.179 --> 01:05:07.679
So your major friend, though, isn't that one?

1474
01:05:07.739 --> 01:05:08.280
Is it?

1475
01:05:08.340 --> 01:05:09.480
Is it, maybe it is.

1476
01:05:09.539 --> 01:05:10.199
Maybe it is.

1477
01:05:10.260 --> 01:05:13.860
There's a fabulous sequence in a minute, though, where to poll is

1478
01:05:13.860 --> 01:05:16.860
left with the baby, and she tries to have a conversation with it.

1479
01:05:17.039 --> 01:05:19.320
She could have been more awkward.

1480
01:05:19.380 --> 01:05:19.920
Could she?

1481
01:05:19.980 --> 01:05:21.599
It's really good.

1482
01:05:21.719 --> 01:05:23.519
I think that's actually really good.

1483
01:05:23.579 --> 01:05:26.699
And there is like she's, I think she makes some good choices.

1484
01:05:26.760 --> 01:05:27.300
I like it.

1485
01:05:27.360 --> 01:05:29.159
I think it's it's pretty great.

1486
01:05:30.239 --> 01:05:31.860
Baby.

1487
01:05:31.920 --> 01:05:33.179
Baby's not going to do anything.

1488
01:05:33.239 --> 01:05:34.440
Chill the fuck out, dude.

1489
01:05:34.500 --> 01:05:36.360
It's shitting itself as you speak.

1490
01:05:36.420 --> 01:05:40.139
Like, come on. you represents so much.

1491
01:05:40.139 --> 01:05:41.280
It's what the baby represents.

1492
01:05:41.340 --> 01:05:44.039
That's right. misogynation.

1493
01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:46.380
Yeah.

1494
01:05:46.440 --> 01:05:48.960
It's always bad news, you know, when you start talking about

1495
01:05:48.960 --> 01:05:50.400
having babies on Star Trek.

1496
01:05:50.460 --> 01:05:51.719
Yeah.

1497
01:05:51.719 --> 01:05:54.539
Dax died 10 minutes later, didn't she?

1498
01:05:54.599 --> 01:05:55.800
Yeah, that's right.

1499
01:05:55.920 --> 01:05:57.539
And their babies would have been so beautiful.

1500
01:06:01.440 --> 01:06:03.599
I just think I know.

1501
01:06:03.599 --> 01:06:04.380
Excuse me.

1502
01:06:04.440 --> 01:06:07.019
You mock that, but that's the sort of melodrama we could do in

1503
01:06:07.019 --> 01:06:07.920
this show, right?

1504
01:06:08.699 --> 01:06:11.820
No, no, no. mocking it, but only because it's really super great.

1505
01:06:11.880 --> 01:06:14.519
Well, I mean, they kill Lalov, don't they?

1506
01:06:14.579 --> 01:06:17.340
Like they give Data a baby and then they have that really kind of

1507
01:06:17.340 --> 01:06:20.820
it is a somewhat meretricious, but nevertheless, completely

1508
01:06:20.820 --> 01:06:25.980
effective scene where, you know, the bad admiral guy comes out

1509
01:06:25.980 --> 01:06:28.920
crying or whatever because they haven't been able to save the baby

1510
01:06:28.920 --> 01:06:30.059
or something.

1511
01:06:30.599 --> 01:06:36.420
So they do that in Star Trek because it's just episodic.

1512
01:06:36.480 --> 01:06:38.639
But here it's their last regular episode.

1513
01:06:38.699 --> 01:06:41.340
You think they could have done something else.

1514
01:06:41.400 --> 01:06:42.719
We could have just kept it.

1515
01:06:42.780 --> 01:06:44.099
Just keep it.

1516
01:06:45.119 --> 01:06:49.739
I think I think that was a bit distasteful at the end of the

1517
01:06:49.739 --> 01:06:50.159
cage.

1518
01:06:50.219 --> 01:06:51.059
You know?

1519
01:06:51.059 --> 01:06:51.599
Yeah.

1520
01:06:51.659 --> 01:06:52.679
Yeah, it's cheap.

1521
01:06:52.739 --> 01:06:53.099
I think.

1522
01:06:53.159 --> 01:06:55.739
Well, it's the same cheapness as Trip Steph in the last one.

1523
01:06:55.800 --> 01:06:57.179
You know, yeah, yeah.

1524
01:06:57.239 --> 01:07:01.019
Trying to inject a moment of emotion that feels entirely

1525
01:07:01.019 --> 01:07:01.860
manufactured.

1526
01:07:01.920 --> 01:07:09.119
The only thing that I really liked was them saying that was Flock

1527
01:07:09.119 --> 01:07:12.179
saying that it turns out that human and Vulcan DNA aren't

1528
01:07:12.179 --> 01:07:14.639
compatible and that you aren't able to have a hybrid.

1529
01:07:14.699 --> 01:07:19.739
And I think that's so great because the one thing that everyone

1530
01:07:19.739 --> 01:07:22.800
like literally everyone, people who haven't seen Star Trek, if you

1531
01:07:22.800 --> 01:07:26.340
know one thing about Vulcans, is you know that Spock is half human

1532
01:07:26.340 --> 01:07:27.420
half Falcon.

1533
01:07:27.480 --> 01:07:28.559
And I think that's really good.

1534
01:07:28.619 --> 01:07:31.320
And I remember kind of thinking, wow, okay.

1535
01:07:31.380 --> 01:07:34.199
And then I, you know, like you work at, obviously, that it was a

1536
01:07:34.199 --> 01:07:36.119
cloning process and stuff like that was there.

1537
01:07:36.179 --> 01:07:38.760
The obvious way they were going to get out of it and I wasn't

1538
01:07:38.760 --> 01:07:39.659
surprised by that.

1539
01:07:39.719 --> 01:07:43.500
But, um, Oh my God, imagine they'd have dropped that, you know.

1540
01:07:43.559 --> 01:07:46.079
The baby was Spock, all of them.

1541
01:07:46.139 --> 01:07:47.940
That's not human.

1542
01:07:49.500 --> 01:07:51.900
Oh, no, it's what he is.

1543
01:07:51.900 --> 01:07:53.159
No, we love his parent.

1544
01:07:53.219 --> 01:07:53.880
I love his mother.

1545
01:07:53.940 --> 01:07:55.199
Yeah, yeah.

1546
01:07:55.260 --> 01:07:55.980
Yeah.

1547
01:07:57.239 --> 01:08:00.179
Well, that's another thing as well. actually, do you know what?

1548
01:08:00.239 --> 01:08:04.980
We meet a lot of family of all the other crew members of 90s

1549
01:08:04.980 --> 01:08:05.820
trek.

1550
01:08:05.880 --> 01:08:06.659
I don't remember it.

1551
01:08:06.719 --> 01:08:09.420
Anyone's family in maybe Flux's wife.

1552
01:08:09.480 --> 01:08:10.260
That's about it.

1553
01:08:10.380 --> 01:08:11.760
Yeah, Fox's wife.

1554
01:08:11.820 --> 01:08:17.100
We obviously, um, Tripp's sister gets killed.

1555
01:08:17.159 --> 01:08:23.279
You know, do you remember Wolf's fabulous parents and...

1556
01:08:23.279 --> 01:08:26.159
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's great.

1557
01:08:26.220 --> 01:08:28.020
Dr. Maura.

1558
01:08:28.380 --> 01:08:32.100
What, um, oh, yeah, he's good too.

1559
01:08:32.159 --> 01:08:33.359
He said that guy.

1560
01:08:34.920 --> 01:08:40.020
Travis does have an episode where he meets his family or something

1561
01:08:40.020 --> 01:08:40.800
does he or not?

1562
01:08:41.279 --> 01:08:44.699
There is an episode where he meets boomers or whatever the hell

1563
01:08:44.699 --> 01:08:45.119
they are.

1564
01:08:45.180 --> 01:08:46.140
Oh, yeah, no, no.

1565
01:08:46.199 --> 01:08:48.300
Is his family...

1566
01:08:48.359 --> 01:08:50.579
No, no, it's somebody he used to know, but something he used to

1567
01:08:50.579 --> 01:08:51.000
work with.

1568
01:08:51.180 --> 01:08:53.279
But yeah, I don't know.

1569
01:08:53.340 --> 01:08:56.220
I feel like they, like you said, they're trying to do a departure

1570
01:08:56.220 --> 01:08:56.939
from the norm.

1571
01:08:57.000 --> 01:08:59.579
Unfortunately, the norm works.

1572
01:08:59.640 --> 01:09:01.199
So what they're departing from, I don't know.

1573
01:09:01.260 --> 01:09:05.279
Do you know, I love this scene and it's trip.

1574
01:09:05.340 --> 01:09:07.199
It's so good.

1575
01:09:07.260 --> 01:09:11.279
And it's that sort of thing, like he's talking about how he didn't

1576
01:09:11.279 --> 01:09:12.239
like Vulcans.

1577
01:09:12.300 --> 01:09:15.720
He didn't bring up Strange New World where he was just a massive

1578
01:09:15.720 --> 01:09:16.859
fucking race.

1579
01:09:16.979 --> 01:09:19.319
I was going to say that. you remember that when he went there?

1580
01:09:19.380 --> 01:09:20.100
It was awful.

1581
01:09:20.159 --> 01:09:23.039
Just drinking. hurt her or something like that?

1582
01:09:23.100 --> 01:09:24.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1583
01:09:24.300 --> 01:09:25.739
Yeah, it was really unpleasant.

1584
01:09:26.399 --> 01:09:33.239
And, and then this, like, this guy whose name I said last time

1585
01:09:33.239 --> 01:09:39.720
he's Daniel, Daniel, he, like, he's like an evil fascist and

1586
01:09:39.720 --> 01:09:40.140
stuff.

1587
01:09:40.140 --> 01:09:43.920
And, and this is so good.

1588
01:09:43.979 --> 01:09:49.380
Like, there's there's a moment where you think, oh, he's going to

1589
01:09:49.380 --> 01:09:50.039
punch him.

1590
01:09:50.100 --> 01:09:52.380
He's going to punch him in the face, but he's going to be

1591
01:09:52.380 --> 01:09:54.539
prevented. but he isn't.

1592
01:09:54.600 --> 01:09:57.899
Like they just let him punch the fascist in the face in the show.

1593
01:09:57.960 --> 01:09:59.220
Like, it's so good.

1594
01:09:59.279 --> 01:10:01.199
It was one of my favourite moments in the episode.

1595
01:10:01.260 --> 01:10:02.100
Yeah, that's right.

1596
01:10:02.159 --> 01:10:03.659
Calls it a half human thing.

1597
01:10:03.720 --> 01:10:05.760
The baby's a half human thing.

1598
01:10:05.880 --> 01:10:10.199
And it looks like he's going to be, he's going to back down.

1599
01:10:10.260 --> 01:10:12.539
He's not going to, see, he turns away.

1600
01:10:12.600 --> 01:10:14.460
He looks like he's going to back down, then he goes, no, fuck it

1601
01:10:14.520 --> 01:10:15.779
punching the guy in the face.

1602
01:10:15.840 --> 01:10:19.319
It's awesome Maybe the journey we've gone on with these characters

1603
01:10:19.319 --> 01:10:22.979
and it's not to get them, no, get to know them better, is to, for

1604
01:10:22.979 --> 01:10:27.119
them to drop their, because they are the regular cast of

1605
01:10:27.119 --> 01:10:28.380
enterprise in series one.

1606
01:10:28.439 --> 01:10:35.340
There is a heavy level of racism. inherent in their characters and

1607
01:10:35.340 --> 01:10:36.359
come series four.

1608
01:10:36.420 --> 01:10:37.560
That's kind of fallen away.

1609
01:10:37.619 --> 01:10:38.579
They've seen the universe.

1610
01:10:38.640 --> 01:10:39.840
They've seen what it's got to offer.

1611
01:10:39.899 --> 01:10:40.979
They gotten to know Tapal.

1612
01:10:41.039 --> 01:10:44.159
They've made, you know, connections with Vulcans and Andorians and

1613
01:10:44.159 --> 01:10:44.520
all of this.

1614
01:10:45.000 --> 01:10:47.100
And the last episode.

1615
01:10:47.159 --> 01:10:47.520
You know what?

1616
01:10:47.520 --> 01:10:50.939
The move me most, and these are the voyages, it was the moment

1617
01:10:50.939 --> 01:10:54.899
where just before he gives his speech, Archer goes up to Nepal, and

1618
01:10:54.899 --> 01:10:57.720
he gives her a hug, and she holds it really tight.

1619
01:10:57.779 --> 01:11:01.319
And when you think where they started in episode one, that is

1620
01:11:01.319 --> 01:11:02.039
unfinkable.

1621
01:11:02.159 --> 01:11:02.880
Yeah, cereal.

1622
01:11:02.939 --> 01:11:03.239
Yeah.

1623
01:11:03.359 --> 01:11:04.380
Well, yeah.

1624
01:11:04.680 --> 01:11:10.140
Yeah, and I get, I get, I guess Flocks gets to do that in this

1625
01:11:10.140 --> 01:11:10.560
episode.

1626
01:11:10.619 --> 01:11:14.399
Like, I don't know what he does in these are the voyages, but he

1627
01:11:14.399 --> 01:11:16.079
does get to say, no, this is fine.

1628
01:11:16.140 --> 01:11:17.819
I love this too.

1629
01:11:17.880 --> 01:11:19.739
Like Flux is handing him a bath bag.

1630
01:11:19.800 --> 01:11:21.180
I like it.

1631
01:11:21.180 --> 01:11:25.380
Just a reminder.

1632
01:11:25.380 --> 01:11:26.520
He has the funniest character.

1633
01:11:26.579 --> 01:11:29.460
He hands it back to him in the next seed.

1634
01:11:29.520 --> 01:11:32.100
Like, we've cut away for another scene with sort of tedious Peter

1635
01:11:32.100 --> 01:11:33.239
Weller being a brick.

1636
01:11:33.300 --> 01:11:37.020
And then I think he hands it back, doesn't he, in the next scene?

1637
01:11:40.079 --> 01:11:43.680
Yeah, we could have done it with a bit more flock here, couldn't

1638
01:11:43.680 --> 01:11:44.159
we, in this?

1639
01:11:44.220 --> 01:11:45.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1640
01:11:45.479 --> 01:11:45.840
Yeah.

1641
01:11:46.260 --> 01:11:47.699
Yeah.

1642
01:11:47.760 --> 01:11:50.039
So what do you think this keyboard does behind his hand?

1643
01:11:50.159 --> 01:11:54.600
This guy's like, EE, B, B, 13?

1644
01:11:54.659 --> 01:11:56.100
I don't think that's a real...

1645
01:11:56.100 --> 01:11:56.640
No, I know.

1646
01:11:57.359 --> 01:11:59.100
Yeah, I think they're just decorative.

1647
01:12:00.359 --> 01:12:01.739
Yes.

1648
01:12:01.800 --> 01:12:04.380
This old-fashioned push buttons, though, you know, not those.

1649
01:12:04.439 --> 01:12:05.039
Yes.

1650
01:12:05.100 --> 01:12:05.640
Oh, I agree.

1651
01:12:05.699 --> 01:12:06.420
I agree.

1652
01:12:06.479 --> 01:12:07.739
And clearly they wanted that.

1653
01:12:07.800 --> 01:12:09.960
They do that with the Delta Flyer, even though it makes no sense

1654
01:12:10.800 --> 01:12:13.920
because they're sort of more physical.

1655
01:12:13.979 --> 01:12:16.500
And because the touchscreens are boring.

1656
01:12:16.560 --> 01:12:20.399
And I think, um, like they were the best thing ever when I was

1657
01:12:20.399 --> 01:12:24.000
watching this when it was 1st on, the touchscreens, but now we all

1658
01:12:24.000 --> 01:12:26.100
have them in our pockets all the time, you know.

1659
01:12:26.100 --> 01:12:29.399
There's so much word peril in this episode.

1660
01:12:29.460 --> 01:12:31.680
There's so much talk about what could happen.

1661
01:12:31.739 --> 01:12:33.180
Yes, yeah.

1662
01:12:33.239 --> 01:12:34.619
Get on with it already.

1663
01:12:34.800 --> 01:12:40.619
I mean, it's the same thing with the protests.

1664
01:12:40.680 --> 01:12:47.279
Remembering Strangely Worlds, the pilot where there are protests

1665
01:12:47.279 --> 01:12:51.840
and we see them, but we see them, you know, like somehow.

1666
01:12:51.899 --> 01:12:57.720
Like they, like, they managed to give it scale without having like

1667
01:12:57.720 --> 01:13:00.899
a movie budget, they managed to give it scale, but they don't

1668
01:13:00.899 --> 01:13:01.619
manage to.

1669
01:13:01.680 --> 01:13:04.619
Somehow TV has changed in 20 years.

1670
01:13:04.680 --> 01:13:06.539
And here it was Tell Don't Show.

1671
01:13:06.600 --> 01:13:12.779
Now there's enough money usually to show without having to tell.

1672
01:13:13.079 --> 01:13:14.279
Oh, here we go.

1673
01:13:14.340 --> 01:13:15.659
Who's that same word to po on the baby?

1674
01:13:15.720 --> 01:13:18.239
It's so adorable, isn't it?

1675
01:13:18.300 --> 01:13:21.600
Like, she just doesn't have to talk to your father about this.

1676
01:13:22.020 --> 01:13:24.539
I thought that was beautiful.

1677
01:13:24.600 --> 01:13:27.659
I actually thought that that wasn't that wasn't going for a gag.

1678
01:13:27.720 --> 01:13:30.899
It was like, we should talk about giving you some kind of name.

1679
01:13:30.960 --> 01:13:33.779
I guess I should talk to your father and I thought that was

1680
01:13:33.779 --> 01:13:34.859
actually quite sweet.

1681
01:13:34.920 --> 01:13:40.260
And it is like, you know, Vulcan's, yeah, look, he's vomited.

1682
01:13:40.319 --> 01:13:42.899
He's handing the full bag back to flocks there.

1683
01:13:42.960 --> 01:13:45.840
He's zipped the bag up.

1684
01:13:45.899 --> 01:13:48.119
No, no, he just vomited during the thing.

1685
01:13:48.659 --> 01:13:51.840
Does the Martian ice cap look like that?

1686
01:13:51.899 --> 01:13:53.760
don't know I don't know, but there was a nicer.

1687
01:13:53.819 --> 01:13:54.180
I think sure.

1688
01:13:54.239 --> 01:13:54.720
A minute there goes.

1689
01:13:54.779 --> 01:13:57.180
They head towards that rock and all the sort of fragments were

1690
01:13:57.180 --> 01:13:58.199
coming towards the camera.

1691
01:13:58.260 --> 01:13:59.100
That was quite long.

1692
01:13:59.159 --> 01:14:00.060
Oh, yeah, that was okay.

1693
01:14:00.119 --> 01:14:03.000
But basically that comet looks incredibly shit.

1694
01:14:03.060 --> 01:14:05.760
Like the bit where they're going.

1695
01:14:05.819 --> 01:14:06.659
Yeah, exactly.

1696
01:14:06.720 --> 01:14:08.220
Just shockingly bad.

1697
01:14:08.699 --> 01:14:10.439
Yeah, there we go.

1698
01:14:10.500 --> 01:14:12.180
Wee, look at those rocks.

1699
01:14:12.239 --> 01:14:14.699
Yeah, yeah, yeah. that's not too bad.

1700
01:14:14.760 --> 01:14:15.420
There's a big rock.

1701
01:14:19.680 --> 01:14:21.539
What is happening here?

1702
01:14:21.600 --> 01:14:22.800
That's just bullshit.

1703
01:14:22.920 --> 01:14:23.220
Come on.

1704
01:14:23.279 --> 01:14:24.600
Oh, no.

1705
01:14:24.659 --> 01:14:27.840
Look, just to show, we're still in Nighty Street, they're wobbling

1706
01:14:27.840 --> 01:14:28.500
about the set.

1707
01:14:28.859 --> 01:14:31.619
Yes, yeah, yeah, really badly too, aren't they?

1708
01:14:31.680 --> 01:14:33.119
They're doing a really shit job of it.

1709
01:14:33.239 --> 01:14:36.720
Well, they've only had 4 years' work. when we saw the last time.

1710
01:14:36.779 --> 01:14:38.760
They had an extra free seasons practice.

1711
01:14:40.319 --> 01:14:44.039
Why are they making the shuttle pod go round and round?

1712
01:14:44.039 --> 01:14:46.439
Because they can. such a bad idea.

1713
01:14:46.500 --> 01:14:49.500
Oh, no, look at this sort of dust bowl eruption here.

1714
01:14:49.560 --> 01:14:50.279
That's a bit...

1715
01:14:50.579 --> 01:14:51.239
This is so good.

1716
01:14:51.300 --> 01:14:52.560
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1717
01:14:52.619 --> 01:14:54.779
Oh, dear, dear, it's bad, isn't it?

1718
01:14:54.840 --> 01:14:55.319
Yeah.

1719
01:14:55.380 --> 01:14:55.920
Yeah.

1720
01:14:55.979 --> 01:15:00.779
And things like things like smoke and stuff took a while before we

1721
01:15:00.779 --> 01:15:01.739
could get them right.

1722
01:15:01.800 --> 01:15:05.220
So that's a little bit sort of primitive CG because they couldn't

1723
01:15:05.220 --> 01:15:05.939
do smoke very well.

1724
01:15:06.000 --> 01:15:09.479
Look, I don't want to shit on this too much, but like they kind of

1725
01:15:09.479 --> 01:15:12.479
land, take over, get the baby back.

1726
01:15:12.539 --> 01:15:13.260
That's the end.

1727
01:15:13.319 --> 01:15:15.899
It's a bit simple, isn't it, the resolution?

1728
01:15:15.960 --> 01:15:16.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1729
01:15:16.560 --> 01:15:16.920
Yeah.

1730
01:15:16.979 --> 01:15:18.119
Yeah.

1731
01:15:19.560 --> 01:15:22.800
I mean, it's usually that though, isn't it?

1732
01:15:22.859 --> 01:15:24.239
There's a bit of peril at the end.

1733
01:15:24.300 --> 01:15:27.239
I mean, you've got the window blowing out and you do have a

1734
01:15:27.239 --> 01:15:29.460
confrontation between Archer and the villain, which I think you

1735
01:15:29.460 --> 01:15:31.979
want, you know, and then he beats.

1736
01:15:32.039 --> 01:15:35.159
That's still incredibly uncharismatic characters facing off.

1737
01:15:35.579 --> 01:15:39.600
But then he gets to defeat the villain and then he gets to go and

1738
01:15:39.600 --> 01:15:42.659
give his speech about what the correct principles are.

1739
01:15:42.720 --> 01:15:46.079
The payoff to the episode is that bit at the end, isn't it?

1740
01:15:46.140 --> 01:15:49.439
Where you can see the formation, the slow formation of the

1741
01:15:49.439 --> 01:15:49.920
Federation.

1742
01:15:49.979 --> 01:15:50.340
Yeah.

1743
01:15:50.340 --> 01:15:50.939
Yeah.

1744
01:15:54.000 --> 01:15:55.199
Yeah, it's funny.

1745
01:15:55.260 --> 01:15:59.399
There must have been a better way of doing the finale and showing

1746
01:15:59.399 --> 01:16:03.000
that like they've got this thing where because they haven't worked

1747
01:16:03.000 --> 01:16:07.020
towards it, they suddenly just have to kind of make it so that in

1748
01:16:07.020 --> 01:16:10.319
the last 3 episodes of the show, these people have an important

1749
01:16:10.319 --> 01:16:11.460
role in history.

1750
01:16:11.520 --> 01:16:12.779
Do you know what I mean?

1751
01:16:12.840 --> 01:16:15.239
where like, you know, I don't know.

1752
01:16:16.380 --> 01:16:20.220
Like they sort of manage it, but it does seem like it's cheating a

1753
01:16:20.220 --> 01:16:20.880
bit, I think.

1754
01:16:20.939 --> 01:16:23.640
A Cole Sagan Memorial Station.

1755
01:16:23.699 --> 01:16:29.159
Yeah, so it's the, see, there's a tractor that we landed a tractor

1756
01:16:29.159 --> 01:16:31.680
on Mars, like curiosity or whatever.

1757
01:16:31.739 --> 01:16:34.739
I don't know exactly what thing it is, but yes, that's pretty

1758
01:16:34.739 --> 01:16:35.039
great.

1759
01:16:35.819 --> 01:16:41.699
And this is nice because this is, again, using Merriweather or

1760
01:16:41.699 --> 01:16:43.739
Mayweather's skills here.

1761
01:16:43.800 --> 01:16:46.800
Yes, obviously, I don't think he's ever had a better couple of

1762
01:16:46.800 --> 01:16:47.159
episodes.

1763
01:16:47.220 --> 01:16:48.180
No.

1764
01:16:48.239 --> 01:16:49.079
Well, I don't know.

1765
01:16:49.140 --> 01:16:51.539
Maybe he's in every other episode of City...

1766
01:16:51.539 --> 01:16:52.739
Oh, he went up to Manico.

1767
01:16:52.739 --> 01:16:54.359
I've been with this show 4 years.

1768
01:16:54.420 --> 01:16:56.579
I've done nothing Give me some lines.

1769
01:16:57.300 --> 01:16:59.220
Please let me do something.

1770
01:16:59.279 --> 01:17:01.020
And isn't isn't Hoshi up on the show?

1771
01:17:01.079 --> 01:17:01.680
That is.

1772
01:17:01.680 --> 01:17:02.760
Look how bad that is.

1773
01:17:03.060 --> 01:17:04.979
Like you can see...

1774
01:17:04.979 --> 01:17:06.359
Mandalorian. are you talking about?

1775
01:17:06.420 --> 01:17:09.300
No, no, you can see where the painting of the rocks.

1776
01:17:09.420 --> 01:17:12.119
Like you can see where the sky meets the land.

1777
01:17:12.300 --> 01:17:17.520
I mean, the where the corner of the studio is. lighting's

1778
01:17:17.520 --> 01:17:17.880
reasonable.

1779
01:17:17.939 --> 01:17:19.140
Look, I'm they're trying.

1780
01:17:19.199 --> 01:17:21.840
And like I appreciate my...

1781
01:17:21.899 --> 01:17:25.319
I do appreciate Mars because I just think that's super

1782
01:17:25.319 --> 01:17:25.859
interesting.

1783
01:17:25.979 --> 01:17:27.479
You know what they could have done?

1784
01:17:27.539 --> 01:17:31.319
They could have done, you know, right back to TNG series one and

1785
01:17:31.319 --> 01:17:34.560
just had some terrible old studio with a lighted backdrop.

1786
01:17:34.619 --> 01:17:36.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1787
01:17:36.300 --> 01:17:39.359
Yeah, look, I think it's it is an attempt and we have come

1788
01:17:39.359 --> 01:17:42.779
somewhere in the last 18 years, I guess. if this is where we

1789
01:17:42.779 --> 01:17:43.199
reach.

1790
01:17:43.260 --> 01:17:45.300
You know, it does.

1791
01:17:45.359 --> 01:17:50.460
So very weird with 90s trek is in some episodes, they really learn

1792
01:17:50.460 --> 01:17:55.439
how to make those planetary in studio or not really effective.

1793
01:17:55.439 --> 01:17:58.020
And then at other times, they just completely forget how to do

1794
01:17:58.020 --> 01:17:58.199
it.

1795
01:17:58.260 --> 01:18:03.300
I think, you know, like I think some of the computer stuff in late

1796
01:18:03.300 --> 01:18:08.399
Voyager is more successful than what they're doing here.

1797
01:18:08.399 --> 01:18:12.000
And I don't know whether it's because they're more ambitious here

1798
01:18:12.000 --> 01:18:15.239
but, you know, like the moonscape and the Marscape and all of that

1799
01:18:15.239 --> 01:18:15.779
sort of thing.

1800
01:18:15.840 --> 01:18:20.579
Like, I thought those things tended to look better on Voyager late

1801
01:18:20.579 --> 01:18:21.180
in its run.

1802
01:18:21.239 --> 01:18:27.300
In the beginning of workforce. a sequence where we go across a CGI

1803
01:18:27.300 --> 01:18:31.859
sort of factory landscape and then the camera lands on people

1804
01:18:31.859 --> 01:18:34.619
coming down from the stairs and that's a practical shop that's

1805
01:18:34.619 --> 01:18:35.579
been inlaid in.

1806
01:18:35.640 --> 01:18:37.439
And it's seamless.

1807
01:18:37.619 --> 01:18:42.960
Yeah, I reckon, you know, like timeless when they find the Voyager

1808
01:18:42.960 --> 01:18:45.659
frozen under a glacier or whatever.

1809
01:18:45.720 --> 01:18:47.340
Like, I think that looks amazing.

1810
01:18:47.399 --> 01:18:50.279
I do think that these look rough.

1811
01:18:50.340 --> 01:18:53.279
Um, I mean, there's one shot.

1812
01:18:53.340 --> 01:18:55.500
Do you remember rocks and shoals when they're coming out of the

1813
01:18:55.500 --> 01:18:58.800
water on that desert landscape and then they superimpose the

1814
01:18:58.800 --> 01:19:00.960
Gemini ship going under the water behind.

1815
01:19:01.020 --> 01:19:01.920
Yeah, yeah.

1816
01:19:01.979 --> 01:19:03.600
Yeah, that's for this as well.

1817
01:19:03.659 --> 01:19:05.579
I think I don't know.

1818
01:19:06.479 --> 01:19:11.220
I guess it's the director and the resources at the time and...

1819
01:19:11.399 --> 01:19:16.560
Yeah, but I think it is just an over, like an overarching failure

1820
01:19:16.560 --> 01:19:22.199
to realise that your job is to put something weird and interesting

1821
01:19:22.199 --> 01:19:23.279
on screen.

1822
01:19:23.340 --> 01:19:28.979
And so we have had, I guess we had that action sequence just then

1823
01:19:28.979 --> 01:19:30.840
in shuttle pod 2 or whatever.

1824
01:19:30.899 --> 01:19:36.659
Uh, and otherwise we've just had establishing shots, haven't we?

1825
01:19:36.720 --> 01:19:37.319
Yeah.

1826
01:19:37.380 --> 01:19:38.220
Yeah.

1827
01:19:38.279 --> 01:19:39.720
Which is kind of what they're doing now.

1828
01:19:39.779 --> 01:19:45.779
Yeah, well, no, that, that's the fucking Verderon array painted on

1829
01:19:45.779 --> 01:19:47.579
the wall of the studio, you know.

1830
01:19:47.640 --> 01:19:50.520
Nathan, I loved Hoshi on the ship.

1831
01:19:50.579 --> 01:19:52.199
Yes, politician.

1832
01:19:52.199 --> 01:19:54.000
Fucking back down.

1833
01:19:54.060 --> 01:19:55.319
I'm in charge, you know?

1834
01:19:55.380 --> 01:19:58.560
Yeah, she's cool as a cucumber as well.

1835
01:19:58.619 --> 01:20:01.500
She's cool with this scene as she was picking that bat out of the

1836
01:20:01.500 --> 01:20:02.939
air and I can sit mate, you know?

1837
01:20:03.000 --> 01:20:04.560
That's great.

1838
01:20:04.560 --> 01:20:06.180
That's great in that.

1839
01:20:06.239 --> 01:20:08.699
I actually think I actually think she probably could have been

1840
01:20:08.699 --> 01:20:10.739
given a lot more to do, you know, though.

1841
01:20:10.739 --> 01:20:11.399
Yeah, I think so too.

1842
01:20:11.520 --> 01:20:12.960
Yeah.

1843
01:20:13.020 --> 01:20:17.039
Oh, who's that lady on the bridge looking giving dagger eyes to

1844
01:20:17.039 --> 01:20:18.600
Harry Grown-up?

1845
01:20:18.659 --> 01:20:19.500
He famous, you know.

1846
01:20:20.279 --> 01:20:23.159
Yeah, she's killing it, isn't she?

1847
01:20:23.220 --> 01:20:23.880
Whoa hoo.

1848
01:20:23.939 --> 01:20:25.619
You can't relieve me, you asshole.

1849
01:20:25.680 --> 01:20:30.720
Um, Look at, she's just standing there.

1850
01:20:30.779 --> 01:20:33.779
She's not grandstanding either and she's quite small.

1851
01:20:33.840 --> 01:20:38.220
She's just standing there quite relaxed with her arms crossed and

1852
01:20:38.220 --> 01:20:39.359
she's good.

1853
01:20:39.420 --> 01:20:41.039
Why can't they?

1854
01:20:41.100 --> 01:20:42.600
Does she get to do more?

1855
01:20:42.659 --> 01:20:46.079
sort of, that's the sort of scene that, sorry, I could constantly

1856
01:20:46.079 --> 01:20:48.300
bringing up the terrible acting of Gauge McFadden.

1857
01:20:48.359 --> 01:20:50.579
But it's a sort of thing, you know, games were fading would fudge

1858
01:20:50.579 --> 01:20:51.060
completely.

1859
01:20:51.119 --> 01:20:56.579
She just sort of look a bit confused and whereas what's Hoshi's

1860
01:20:56.579 --> 01:20:57.420
what's the actress's name?

1861
01:20:57.479 --> 01:21:00.000
Linda Park.

1862
01:21:00.060 --> 01:21:01.199
Yeah, she's.

1863
01:21:01.260 --> 01:21:02.100
Yeah.

1864
01:21:02.159 --> 01:21:03.000
She sells it.

1865
01:21:03.060 --> 01:21:04.680
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1866
01:21:04.800 --> 01:21:05.760
Here we go.

1867
01:21:05.819 --> 01:21:07.199
Look, they were just meeting in a corner.

1868
01:21:07.319 --> 01:21:07.859
Oh there you are.

1869
01:21:07.920 --> 01:21:08.939
Right, you're here.

1870
01:21:08.939 --> 01:21:09.899
Yep.

1871
01:21:09.960 --> 01:21:10.800
Oh, that was easy.

1872
01:21:11.819 --> 01:21:15.899
They just can't let go of some of these. like obviously TV's

1873
01:21:15.899 --> 01:21:18.779
coming on a bit, but they can't let go of some of these 90s trek.

1874
01:21:18.840 --> 01:21:20.880
Yeah, we see it.

1875
01:21:20.939 --> 01:21:22.319
I think that that is the problem.

1876
01:21:22.380 --> 01:21:25.979
I can't remember, but by now is this starting to look a bit

1877
01:21:25.979 --> 01:21:28.140
cheap?

1878
01:21:28.140 --> 01:21:30.300
Compared to everything else?

1879
01:21:30.300 --> 01:21:33.479
What's happening in 2003 or whatever?

1880
01:21:33.720 --> 01:21:37.739
But weirdly enough, you know, I think the last 2 or 3 episodes of

1881
01:21:37.739 --> 01:21:43.260
series 3 where the weapon is heading towards the earth and they're

1882
01:21:43.260 --> 01:21:46.260
doing massive, spectacular set pieces.

1883
01:21:46.319 --> 01:21:47.939
I'm going to say the word spectacular.

1884
01:21:48.000 --> 01:21:50.279
Yeah, when you eventually see them.

1885
01:21:50.340 --> 01:21:52.079
I'm sure you'll disagree with me.

1886
01:21:53.159 --> 01:21:55.560
Yeah, but maybe, yeah.

1887
01:21:55.619 --> 01:21:57.539
And it's because they just can't.

1888
01:21:57.659 --> 01:22:00.420
They've been, like I said, they've been churning out 600 odd

1889
01:22:00.420 --> 01:22:04.800
episodes for donkeys years, and they've got into a certain pattern

1890
01:22:04.800 --> 01:22:08.760
of doing things, and it took, it took something like those, those

1891
01:22:08.760 --> 01:22:12.060
bloody movies, orange, Chris Pine, to come in and really shake it

1892
01:22:12.060 --> 01:22:13.260
up and shake it up.

1893
01:22:13.319 --> 01:22:15.359
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1894
01:22:15.420 --> 01:22:17.159
Yeah, that's exactly it.

1895
01:22:17.220 --> 01:22:19.020
And I think that that's when it hits, isn't it?

1896
01:22:19.079 --> 01:22:21.899
And I think, you know, something like Discovery, they don't even

1897
01:22:21.899 --> 01:22:22.439
attempt.

1898
01:22:22.500 --> 01:22:27.779
You know, no one would do a show like Star Trek for 26 episodes a

1899
01:22:27.779 --> 01:22:28.140
year.

1900
01:22:28.199 --> 01:22:31.319
Like you would just never do that because you'd end up with

1901
01:22:31.319 --> 01:22:32.939
something that just didn't look very interesting.

1902
01:22:33.000 --> 01:22:36.180
And it would be able to press the randomiser on Kurtzman Trek more

1903
01:22:36.180 --> 01:22:36.300
often.

1904
01:22:36.420 --> 01:22:41.520
Well, but, I mean, Curse and Trek is basically doing nearly 50

1905
01:22:41.520 --> 01:22:43.199
episodes of Star Trek a year.

1906
01:22:43.260 --> 01:22:46.260
It's just that they're spread across different shows.

1907
01:22:47.220 --> 01:22:51.600
And so, you know, like this is they're creating more...

1908
01:22:51.720 --> 01:22:53.159
Different production teams as well.

1909
01:22:53.220 --> 01:22:55.020
So they've all got very different looks.

1910
01:22:55.140 --> 01:22:56.340
Oh, exactly.

1911
01:22:56.399 --> 01:22:57.960
Different castes, the whole thing.

1912
01:22:58.319 --> 01:22:59.699
Yeah.

1913
01:22:59.760 --> 01:23:02.399
I'm hoping it's coming for Doctor Who, you know, the same sort of

1914
01:23:02.399 --> 01:23:02.579
thing.

1915
01:23:02.640 --> 01:23:08.640
I am reasonably sure that it is. is my guess.

1916
01:23:08.699 --> 01:23:10.739
Oh no, it's tripping shot.

1917
01:23:11.340 --> 01:23:13.439
No, just fallen over.

1918
01:23:13.500 --> 01:23:15.659
Yeah, no, plasma grid.

1919
01:23:15.720 --> 01:23:17.640
Oh, no, it was an exploring control panel.

1920
01:23:17.699 --> 01:23:18.420
No, no.

1921
01:23:18.539 --> 01:23:19.140
Captain Archer.

1922
01:23:19.199 --> 01:23:21.300
You turn... he's got a humanity, isn't he?

1923
01:23:21.359 --> 01:23:22.560
He did get shot, didn't he?

1924
01:23:22.619 --> 01:23:24.420
I thought he was going to lie down.

1925
01:23:25.859 --> 01:23:29.460
See, you say they're having a confrontation, but one's hiding

1926
01:23:29.460 --> 01:23:31.439
behind a grid and the other one's behind a console.

1927
01:23:31.500 --> 01:23:32.340
So it's not really.

1928
01:23:32.399 --> 01:23:35.100
No, no, they come out and properly confront one another in a

1929
01:23:35.100 --> 01:23:35.220
minute.

1930
01:23:35.279 --> 01:23:36.539
And the window's cracking.

1931
01:23:36.600 --> 01:23:40.439
So, you know, the vacuum is about to...

1932
01:23:40.439 --> 01:23:43.619
But somehow they manage to not make it exciting or visceral.

1933
01:23:43.680 --> 01:23:45.960
It just looks like someone drawing lines across the screen.

1934
01:23:46.079 --> 01:23:49.500
Do you remember in the 2nd Jurassic Park movie where they're on

1935
01:23:49.500 --> 01:23:54.539
the window, on the rear windscreen of the bus, and it's cracking

1936
01:23:54.539 --> 01:23:59.039
and you hear it crack and you feel like there's a real reality to

1937
01:23:59.039 --> 01:24:01.979
it where this...

1938
01:24:01.979 --> 01:24:03.060
Yeah, that's right.

1939
01:24:03.119 --> 01:24:05.819
Just, you know, like...

1940
01:24:07.079 --> 01:24:10.920
Yeah, you also, you want some fantastic foley here, don't you?

1941
01:24:10.979 --> 01:24:12.359
That's really...

1942
01:24:13.079 --> 01:24:16.020
Well, it's just a tiny room, isn't it?

1943
01:24:17.399 --> 01:24:19.140
So...

1944
01:24:19.140 --> 01:24:22.260
Now Archie's having a lie down.

1945
01:24:25.739 --> 01:24:28.920
Oh, no, Nathan is like great.

1946
01:24:28.979 --> 01:24:29.460
I'm sorry.

1947
01:24:29.520 --> 01:24:31.439
It's confrontationally.

1948
01:24:31.500 --> 01:24:31.920
It's not.

1949
01:24:31.979 --> 01:24:34.380
No, no, no, it's not automatic.

1950
01:24:34.439 --> 01:24:37.380
Plus, like, these 2 they don't have any kind of a relationship

1951
01:24:37.380 --> 01:24:38.340
either.

1952
01:24:38.399 --> 01:24:40.859
So it's not like a Khan kirk sort of thing, is it?

1953
01:24:40.920 --> 01:24:42.000
No, that's right.

1954
01:24:42.060 --> 01:24:43.020
Yeah.

1955
01:24:43.140 --> 01:24:46.140
Yes, that's the thing that you have to do, isn't it?

1956
01:24:46.199 --> 01:24:48.539
I guess that's why Soren doesn't work because he's just some

1957
01:24:48.539 --> 01:24:51.000
asshole who wants to blow up people we don't care about.

1958
01:24:51.479 --> 01:24:53.220
Do you remember that?

1959
01:24:53.220 --> 01:24:54.060
I reckon.

1960
01:24:54.180 --> 01:24:58.260
That final confrontation between like Odo and the female

1961
01:24:58.260 --> 01:25:00.840
shapeshifter and what you leave behind, it means something because

1962
01:25:00.840 --> 01:25:01.800
they've got a relationship.

1963
01:25:02.699 --> 01:25:06.239
Or any scene between Major Kira and Dukat.

1964
01:25:06.659 --> 01:25:08.699
Oh, so that's right.

1965
01:25:08.819 --> 01:25:10.979
And you sort of think, 0 my god, that's actually quite good

1966
01:25:10.979 --> 01:25:15.420
because it looks like he doesn't manage to stop it, but we then

1967
01:25:15.420 --> 01:25:16.739
discover the trips already.

1968
01:25:16.800 --> 01:25:20.340
I like this effect shot of the beam going into the water.

1969
01:25:20.399 --> 01:25:23.460
It's just landing in the ocean to just kill some fucking whales

1970
01:25:23.460 --> 01:25:23.939
probably.

1971
01:25:24.000 --> 01:25:33.420
Oh, yeah. into all that trouble and now Paxton's killed all the

1972
01:25:33.420 --> 01:25:34.140
whales again.

1973
01:25:34.199 --> 01:25:34.979
Defeated him.

1974
01:25:35.039 --> 01:25:36.960
Can't we just say in the episode here instead of watching this

1975
01:25:36.960 --> 01:25:37.500
baby die?

1976
01:25:37.560 --> 01:25:39.300
I mean, yeah, I agree.

1977
01:25:39.359 --> 01:25:41.100
Yeah, I agree.

1978
01:25:41.699 --> 01:25:46.199
Oh, look, there was, oh, there's some proper acting there from

1979
01:25:46.199 --> 01:25:46.739
Tapol.

1980
01:25:46.800 --> 01:25:49.260
And we get some decent actual break.

1981
01:25:49.319 --> 01:25:51.000
John Billingsley now as well.

1982
01:25:51.060 --> 01:25:52.380
Yeah.

1983
01:25:52.439 --> 01:25:53.340
Yeah.

1984
01:25:53.340 --> 01:25:56.279
And gold, because otherwise I'd just be like, what is the point of

1985
01:25:56.279 --> 01:25:56.460
this?

1986
01:25:59.579 --> 01:26:04.020
Yeah, again, all of this sort of emotional hev they're giving to

1987
01:26:04.020 --> 01:26:05.399
this relationship between these two.

1988
01:26:05.520 --> 01:26:09.239
It adds more insult to that decision in that last episode.

1989
01:26:09.300 --> 01:26:11.760
I know I keep saying it, but...

1990
01:26:11.819 --> 01:26:15.779
No, it's actually my best character. such a bizarre choice.

1991
01:26:15.840 --> 01:26:18.300
Well, yeah, but I think they know it's the best character and

1992
01:26:18.300 --> 01:26:20.699
that's why they think it's going to land. yeah.

1993
01:26:20.760 --> 01:26:21.420
Yeah.

1994
01:26:22.140 --> 01:26:25.560
It's almost like they go, oh, well, he's dead.

1995
01:26:25.619 --> 01:26:27.779
I've got to go give a speech now for the formation of the

1996
01:26:27.779 --> 01:26:28.199
Federation.

1997
01:26:28.319 --> 01:26:33.600
And then, and then it's all, all just sort of distracting because

1998
01:26:33.600 --> 01:26:37.199
you've got Riker and Troy. in the background of every scene

1999
01:26:37.199 --> 01:26:38.880
reminding you that none of this is actually happening.

2000
01:26:38.939 --> 01:26:39.960
Yeah.

2001
01:26:40.020 --> 01:26:41.460
Well, it is happening.

2002
01:26:41.520 --> 01:26:44.039
It's on telly Any very bizarre.

2003
01:26:44.100 --> 01:26:46.560
And now I can't watch the Pegasus in the same way either.

2004
01:26:46.619 --> 01:26:47.640
So it's ruined that.

2005
01:26:47.640 --> 01:26:48.840
Oh, you're just imagined.

2006
01:26:48.840 --> 01:26:55.560
You're imagining Johnny and Marina disappearing into the very odd

2007
01:26:55.560 --> 01:26:57.720
because he's put on a lot of weight, you know, between scenes.

2008
01:26:59.699 --> 01:27:04.079
Well, I mean, it's 11, 12 years or something, isn't it?

2009
01:27:04.140 --> 01:27:05.819
Like Pegasus is series seven.

2010
01:27:05.880 --> 01:27:09.779
And Marina Service has suddenly become extremely relaxed within

2011
01:27:09.779 --> 01:27:10.560
our performance.

2012
01:27:10.920 --> 01:27:12.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2013
01:27:12.300 --> 01:27:13.380
That's it.

2014
01:27:13.439 --> 01:27:17.399
She's actually she's great in the last episode of Enterprise.

2015
01:27:17.460 --> 01:27:19.260
She's she's the best thing in it, aren't they?

2016
01:27:19.319 --> 01:27:20.699
I bet.

2017
01:27:20.760 --> 01:27:24.420
I mean, I think she's terrific when she's in Voyager as well. you

2018
01:27:24.420 --> 01:27:25.800
know, love her in Voyager.

2019
01:27:25.859 --> 01:27:28.920
I hope in series 3 of Picard.

2020
01:27:28.979 --> 01:27:30.659
She's full on like in that interview.

2021
01:27:30.720 --> 01:27:31.680
Yeah, gate seat.

2022
01:27:31.739 --> 01:27:32.340
Gate seat.

2023
01:27:34.680 --> 01:27:37.199
Cockney Marina, you know?

2024
01:27:37.260 --> 01:27:38.220
So wonderful.

2025
01:27:38.279 --> 01:27:42.119
I don't know what they'll do about the daughter, though.

2026
01:27:42.180 --> 01:27:45.000
Like she'll be off somewhere.

2027
01:27:45.060 --> 01:27:45.720
Yeah.

2028
01:27:45.779 --> 01:27:48.600
Or please make a reference to Mrs. Troy as well.

2029
01:27:48.659 --> 01:27:49.500
Come on.

2030
01:27:49.560 --> 01:27:51.840
She'd be dead by now.

2031
01:27:51.899 --> 01:27:55.500
Or was she on Beta Z when the Dominion destroyed it?

2032
01:27:55.680 --> 01:27:58.500
They just took over. didn't destroy it.

2033
01:27:58.800 --> 01:28:02.340
That was such a great thing. was a good choice.

2034
01:28:02.640 --> 01:28:05.039
The hell was this all about?

2035
01:28:05.100 --> 01:28:08.279
Oh, yeah, so this weird random plot.

2036
01:28:08.340 --> 01:28:13.619
So, so, we can confront that guy because there's someone on the

2037
01:28:13.619 --> 01:28:14.100
ship.

2038
01:28:14.159 --> 01:28:17.819
Is that why Gannet is on board?

2039
01:28:17.880 --> 01:28:22.560
Because they've got a...

2040
01:28:22.619 --> 01:28:24.899
Why not musical we're a greedy gannet, you know?

2041
01:28:24.960 --> 01:28:26.939
A greedy gobble gannet.

2042
01:28:27.600 --> 01:28:30.119
I'm doing an English accent then.

2043
01:28:30.180 --> 01:28:32.939
I think you were I was.

2044
01:28:33.479 --> 01:28:36.060
A greedy gobble get it.

2045
01:28:37.260 --> 01:28:39.359
Yeah, so what?

2046
01:28:39.420 --> 01:28:41.399
He was the real...

2047
01:28:41.399 --> 01:28:43.560
He was the villain for long, although I don't know what he was

2048
01:28:43.560 --> 01:28:43.800
doing.

2049
01:28:43.859 --> 01:28:46.140
Like, we didn't notice.

2050
01:28:46.140 --> 01:28:48.180
Was he in any scenes before this one?

2051
01:28:48.239 --> 01:28:48.720
No.

2052
01:28:48.779 --> 01:28:49.619
No, no, no.

2053
01:28:49.680 --> 01:28:52.260
He's apparently been doing bad things, but we don't know what they

2054
01:28:52.260 --> 01:28:52.500
are.

2055
01:28:52.560 --> 01:28:55.319
Then we have this massive emotional scene.

2056
01:28:55.319 --> 01:28:56.100
He's like...

2057
01:28:56.159 --> 01:28:57.000
This pretty boy.

2058
01:28:57.000 --> 01:28:59.760
Don't tell my parents I was a racist.

2059
01:29:02.279 --> 01:29:06.720
Oh, he's really neither of them are doing very good job, are

2060
01:29:06.720 --> 01:29:07.020
they?

2061
01:29:07.140 --> 01:29:11.939
Like, this is clearly his 1st role on telly because he's 12 and

2062
01:29:11.939 --> 01:29:15.180
he's having a bit of a cry and he's really trying to do some

2063
01:29:15.180 --> 01:29:15.840
proper acting.

2064
01:29:17.279 --> 01:29:21.060
Imagine, okay, imagine Enterprise, actually had like discovery

2065
01:29:21.060 --> 01:29:22.619
Denver, characters like that.

2066
01:29:22.680 --> 01:29:25.859
And it was a character like that that we established.

2067
01:29:25.920 --> 01:29:26.819
Yeah, yeah.

2068
01:29:27.420 --> 01:29:29.579
Yeah, oh, and...

2069
01:29:29.640 --> 01:29:32.579
Well, no, do you remember, do you remember in, um, in the hands of

2070
01:29:32.579 --> 01:29:36.899
the prophets when old, uh, O'Brien's assistant goes to assassinate

2071
01:29:36.899 --> 01:29:37.380
Barral.

2072
01:29:37.439 --> 01:29:40.920
Yeah, but they establish her in the previous episode or Ashley

2073
01:29:40.920 --> 01:29:45.359
Judd's character in the game. and she's in the previous episode.

2074
01:29:45.420 --> 01:29:46.020
Yeah.

2075
01:29:46.079 --> 01:29:46.739
Yeah.

2076
01:29:46.739 --> 01:29:48.119
Yeah.

2077
01:29:48.180 --> 01:29:50.159
You've learned these lessons, like...

2078
01:29:50.460 --> 01:29:52.319
But I just think that's unpleasant.

2079
01:29:52.380 --> 01:29:55.920
Like, and so Archer has to watch this kid shoot himself in the

2080
01:29:55.920 --> 01:29:59.460
head and then what it now is off in the next scene doing something

2081
01:29:59.460 --> 01:29:59.760
else.

2082
01:29:59.819 --> 01:30:02.939
It just doesn't, like, it's so weightless.

2083
01:30:03.000 --> 01:30:06.479
I think it's supposed to be like as visceral as that Battlestar

2084
01:30:06.479 --> 01:30:09.239
Galactica where D shot herself in the head.

2085
01:30:09.359 --> 01:30:13.979
But it's absolutely consequence free and bloodless in the usual

2086
01:30:13.979 --> 01:30:16.859
Star Trek way that I always complain about. is holding a sort of

2087
01:30:16.859 --> 01:30:20.340
big bulbous, police of plastic to his head that looks vaguely like

2088
01:30:20.340 --> 01:30:24.119
a gun, and then we cut away from anything and say, you know

2089
01:30:24.119 --> 01:30:25.199
nothing really bad happens.

2090
01:30:25.319 --> 01:30:29.819
But the reason why the D suicide is so effective is because we are

2091
01:30:29.819 --> 01:30:31.739
full of that character for 4 seasons.

2092
01:30:31.800 --> 01:30:33.239
Yeah, yeah, it's a big shock.

2093
01:30:33.359 --> 01:30:35.460
Gosh, unbelievable that scene, isn't it?

2094
01:30:35.520 --> 01:30:36.840
Yeah, yeah.

2095
01:30:36.899 --> 01:30:37.680
Yeah.

2096
01:30:37.739 --> 01:30:39.119
Oh, no.

2097
01:30:39.119 --> 01:30:42.000
Look, they do give them real focus on that terrible confidence

2098
01:30:42.000 --> 01:30:42.779
backdrop.

2099
01:30:42.840 --> 01:30:43.619
Oh yeah.

2100
01:30:43.680 --> 01:30:46.439
It's really bad, isn't it?

2101
01:30:46.500 --> 01:30:47.340
What is it?

2102
01:30:47.399 --> 01:30:49.859
It's like a comedy slander on something.

2103
01:30:49.920 --> 01:30:50.819
The polls close.

2104
01:30:50.880 --> 01:30:53.220
Why do they give them those terrible jumpsuits to wait?

2105
01:30:53.279 --> 01:30:54.600
I know it's velour.

2106
01:30:54.659 --> 01:30:56.760
Like it's a pink velour jumpsuit.

2107
01:30:56.819 --> 01:30:59.100
It's so much worse than what 7 wears, I think.

2108
01:30:59.460 --> 01:31:03.960
See, and I like I like the sentiment of this scene and what he's

2109
01:31:03.960 --> 01:31:07.439
saying and what it represents and that they are unified.

2110
01:31:07.560 --> 01:31:08.699
There was another danobulin.

2111
01:31:08.760 --> 01:31:10.739
Look, we're going to get the crotassin.

2112
01:31:10.800 --> 01:31:14.760
The Andorians antennae are wiggling excitedly.

2113
01:31:14.819 --> 01:31:16.079
They're good though.

2114
01:31:16.140 --> 01:31:21.060
I mean, they look so incredibly crap in original series Star

2115
01:31:21.060 --> 01:31:21.539
Trek.

2116
01:31:21.600 --> 01:31:23.579
It does sell them a little bit.

2117
01:31:23.640 --> 01:31:27.539
What was it you said that time about Dr. Flux's costumes made him

2118
01:31:27.539 --> 01:31:28.079
look like...

2119
01:31:28.079 --> 01:31:30.720
Oh, he just looks like a swinger, doesn't he?

2120
01:31:30.779 --> 01:31:36.600
Like he's, he's very, he's like a really hep kind of dude in the

2121
01:31:36.600 --> 01:31:39.060
60s, you know, in his... yeah, yeah.

2122
01:31:39.119 --> 01:31:40.020
Like I think...

2123
01:31:40.140 --> 01:31:42.840
You know, the the Vulcan guy there, you know, a terrible conflict

2124
01:31:42.840 --> 01:31:43.380
with Archer.

2125
01:31:43.439 --> 01:31:46.619
He's looking at him there admirably now with such respect.

2126
01:31:46.680 --> 01:31:46.979
Yeah.

2127
01:31:46.979 --> 01:31:48.239
Yeah, and that's...

2128
01:31:48.359 --> 01:31:49.260
We come a long way.

2129
01:31:49.319 --> 01:31:51.300
No, please, no.

2130
01:31:52.500 --> 01:31:56.399
This speech is really badly delivered.

2131
01:31:56.460 --> 01:31:58.020
It's so bad.

2132
01:31:58.079 --> 01:32:04.380
Like, you know, he's no, like, there are times when I just sort of

2133
01:32:04.380 --> 01:32:07.140
think that Patrick Stewart's slumming it, not bothering and taking

2134
01:32:07.140 --> 01:32:13.500
7 years off acting or whatever. you know, and just having a relax

2135
01:32:13.500 --> 01:32:16.140
you know, cashing in the paycheques.

2136
01:32:16.199 --> 01:32:20.220
But he would give this speech, you know, he would just absolutely

2137
01:32:20.220 --> 01:32:22.079
knock this speech out of part.

2138
01:32:22.140 --> 01:32:22.920
Oh, we would as well.

2139
01:32:22.979 --> 01:32:25.199
Yeah, she would nail it.

2140
01:32:25.260 --> 01:32:26.399
She would absolutely nail it.

2141
01:32:26.460 --> 01:32:29.460
Avery Bruce would be grinning to a point where you're weak at the

2142
01:32:29.460 --> 01:32:29.699
knees.

2143
01:32:29.760 --> 01:32:31.020
Yeah, yeah.

2144
01:32:31.079 --> 01:32:35.640
I mean, this is the sentiment at the end too, isn't it, of the end

2145
01:32:35.640 --> 01:32:42.239
of Star Trek, the Next Generation, that, you know, we're going to

2146
01:32:42.239 --> 01:32:47.159
boldly go places, but the real adventure is getting to know each

2147
01:32:47.159 --> 01:32:48.420
other sort of thing.

2148
01:32:48.479 --> 01:32:52.500
And that connection thing that becomes the that big deal in

2149
01:32:52.500 --> 01:32:53.399
discovery as well.

2150
01:32:53.460 --> 01:32:58.979
Yeah, the final frontier begins. as terribly executed as it may

2151
01:32:58.979 --> 01:32:59.159
be.

2152
01:32:59.220 --> 01:33:02.520
I do appreciate them trying to bring this show to some kind of a

2153
01:33:02.520 --> 01:33:05.819
conclusion and an optimistic one of that.

2154
01:33:05.880 --> 01:33:07.079
Yeah, yeah.

2155
01:33:07.260 --> 01:33:09.300
Yeah, I think so too.

2156
01:33:09.539 --> 01:33:13.859
I mean, it certainly would have been better had it ended in series

2157
01:33:13.859 --> 01:33:14.279
three.

2158
01:33:14.340 --> 01:33:18.000
It would have ended with that Nazi appearing out of nowhere.

2159
01:33:18.060 --> 01:33:19.619
But even, that would have been the end.

2160
01:33:19.800 --> 01:33:21.960
That would have been great.

2161
01:33:22.020 --> 01:33:23.279
Imagine that.

2162
01:33:23.460 --> 01:33:25.560
Oh, now what are we doing?

2163
01:33:25.619 --> 01:33:27.180
We're having dead baby conversation.

2164
01:33:27.300 --> 01:33:33.180
No, we're having the... the...

2165
01:33:33.239 --> 01:33:34.140
Yes.

2166
01:33:36.239 --> 01:33:39.479
And you should have backed up on that transport as well.

2167
01:33:39.539 --> 01:33:41.340
Yeah, some kids.

2168
01:33:41.340 --> 01:33:43.199
TV show set.

2169
01:33:43.319 --> 01:33:45.960
It does look bad, doesn't it?

2170
01:33:46.020 --> 01:33:47.279
It's terrible.

2171
01:33:47.520 --> 01:33:50.460
Oh, they learn some lessons in discovery.

2172
01:33:50.520 --> 01:33:52.260
They probably looked at 90s trek and said, right.

2173
01:33:52.319 --> 01:33:54.359
Whatever we're going to do, we're just not going to do that.

2174
01:33:54.420 --> 01:33:56.100
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2175
01:33:56.159 --> 01:33:59.039
So there was a hilarious thing that I read that said that the

2176
01:33:59.039 --> 01:34:04.319
original model, you know, you know, Enterprise NX 01 is completely

2177
01:34:04.319 --> 01:34:09.420
computer generated. like it's there's no model, but it was going

2178
01:34:09.420 --> 01:34:12.420
to be bronze, you know, like the starships are in discovery.

2179
01:34:12.479 --> 01:34:16.680
Um, and somehow it just turned out being a sort of terribly boring

2180
01:34:16.680 --> 01:34:20.699
um, you know, oh, it looks all right.

2181
01:34:20.760 --> 01:34:22.020
Looks like metal, I guess.

2182
01:34:22.140 --> 01:34:25.680
This is the last scene now, is there, between trip and power?

2183
01:34:25.739 --> 01:34:27.000
And it's very melancholic.

2184
01:34:27.060 --> 01:34:29.399
So I'm kind of glad they didn't end the series on this note.

2185
01:34:29.819 --> 01:34:35.159
No, it is an odd thing to do, but it does, what it does do

2186
01:34:35.159 --> 01:34:36.060
though.

2187
01:34:36.119 --> 01:34:43.020
These 2 characters were antagonistic when it 1st started, weren't

2188
01:34:43.020 --> 01:34:43.140
they?

2189
01:34:43.199 --> 01:34:44.159
Yes.

2190
01:34:44.279 --> 01:34:46.020
Yeah, definitely.

2191
01:34:46.079 --> 01:34:47.220
Well, Strangely World.

2192
01:34:47.279 --> 01:34:48.359
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2193
01:34:48.420 --> 01:34:50.939
But, I mean, even before then, isn't there like her refusing to

2194
01:34:50.939 --> 01:34:52.380
shake his in or something like that?

2195
01:34:52.439 --> 01:34:55.079
There's a very awkward dinner scene in the 1st episode.

2196
01:34:55.140 --> 01:34:55.439
Yeah.

2197
01:34:55.500 --> 01:34:57.539
Yeah, so right from the beginning.

2198
01:34:57.600 --> 01:35:02.039
And so the show ends, like, you know, the last thing that we see

2199
01:35:02.039 --> 01:35:06.359
in the normal enterprise timeline, isn't it a close-up of them

2200
01:35:06.359 --> 01:35:06.960
holding hands?

2201
01:35:07.020 --> 01:35:08.279
Yeah.

2202
01:35:08.340 --> 01:35:10.140
And...

2203
01:35:10.140 --> 01:35:14.460
And I think that Conor Triner does a really good job of this.

2204
01:35:14.520 --> 01:35:16.739
I mean, he's, you know, he's covered in glycerine and stuff like

2205
01:35:16.739 --> 01:35:16.979
that.

2206
01:35:17.039 --> 01:35:21.300
Like, I'm not buying those tears, but I think he sells this really

2207
01:35:21.300 --> 01:35:21.840
well.

2208
01:35:21.899 --> 01:35:24.300
And he has to do it, of course, doesn't he?

2209
01:35:24.359 --> 01:35:28.199
He has to do all of that because she has to downplay it because

2210
01:35:28.199 --> 01:35:29.279
she's a Vulcan.

2211
01:35:29.399 --> 01:35:33.840
And, of course, the final scene is, yes, we can have a Spock in

2212
01:35:33.840 --> 01:35:34.560
future as well.

2213
01:35:34.680 --> 01:35:36.899
So that's another link, isn't it?

2214
01:35:36.960 --> 01:35:39.000
to the future that it is possible.

2215
01:35:39.119 --> 01:35:41.100
And we will try again.

2216
01:35:41.159 --> 01:35:41.819
That's the other thing.

2217
01:35:41.880 --> 01:35:42.600
Let's try again.

2218
01:35:42.659 --> 01:35:44.819
Let's, I think that's pretty good.

2219
01:35:44.880 --> 01:35:46.800
The sentiment is like optimistic.

2220
01:35:46.859 --> 01:35:49.500
But the tone is very downbeat.

2221
01:35:49.560 --> 01:35:51.060
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2222
01:35:51.119 --> 01:35:53.880
Well, if they decide to kill a baby in the final episode, It's not

2223
01:35:53.880 --> 01:35:54.539
a good thing.

2224
01:35:54.600 --> 01:35:55.560
This is Conor Trenier.

2225
01:35:55.619 --> 01:35:56.520
No, they're realties.

2226
01:35:56.579 --> 01:35:57.720
He just found out they've been cancelled.

2227
01:35:57.779 --> 01:36:00.300
You know, he's out of work next week, you know?

2228
01:36:00.359 --> 01:36:01.260
might have known.

2229
01:36:03.000 --> 01:36:06.779
Apparently they were all appalled, weren't they, when that script

2230
01:36:06.779 --> 01:36:07.920
came in for the last episode.

2231
01:36:07.979 --> 01:36:09.779
Yeah, yeah. called it an insult.

2232
01:36:09.899 --> 01:36:10.859
Yeah.

2233
01:36:10.920 --> 01:36:13.920
Like you said, they should have been more worried about the last 4

2234
01:36:13.920 --> 01:36:15.060
years worth of scripts.

2235
01:36:18.659 --> 01:36:24.779
Oh, I don't really know what else to say about Demons and Terra

2236
01:36:24.779 --> 01:36:30.960
Prime, beyond the fact that it is a competent story, it uses

2237
01:36:30.960 --> 01:36:33.539
everybody pretty well, apart from flocks maybe.

2238
01:36:33.600 --> 01:36:36.720
It's reasonably well executed.

2239
01:36:36.779 --> 01:36:39.840
It's probably where Enterprise should have begun rather than

2240
01:36:39.840 --> 01:36:40.319
ended.

2241
01:36:40.380 --> 01:36:41.220
Yeah.

2242
01:36:41.279 --> 01:36:45.600
Yeah, I think, and it's about, it's about the values that underpin

2243
01:36:45.600 --> 01:36:51.420
Star Trek and, um, you know, presents a future where those need to

2244
01:36:51.420 --> 01:36:52.140
be fought for.

2245
01:36:52.199 --> 01:36:58.079
I think that's worth doing and a good place to end on, I guess

2246
01:36:58.079 --> 01:37:01.739
given that that's not what they would have had planned, I

2247
01:37:01.739 --> 01:37:02.039
suppose.

2248
01:37:02.100 --> 01:37:05.640
I suppose the sentiment I would like to end this on. is there's

2249
01:37:05.640 --> 01:37:06.840
nothing to be embarrassed by here.

2250
01:37:06.899 --> 01:37:11.220
No, well, mostly nothing in Star Trek.

2251
01:37:12.899 --> 01:37:18.180
But perhaps like the one bigger mission that we both said is it

2252
01:37:18.180 --> 01:37:21.060
isn't really silly or funny.

2253
01:37:21.119 --> 01:37:21.779
It's not much fun.

2254
01:37:21.840 --> 01:37:24.239
No, but still watchable.

2255
01:37:30.300 --> 01:37:33.659
All right, it's time for us to work out what we're going to watch

2256
01:37:33.659 --> 01:37:37.380
next, and Joe, it's your turn on the randomiser.

2257
01:37:37.439 --> 01:37:39.060
So tell us what we're choosing.

2258
01:37:39.119 --> 01:37:43.800
I've decided we've watched too many important episodes of Star

2259
01:37:43.800 --> 01:37:44.460
Trek lately.

2260
01:37:44.520 --> 01:37:45.779
We've watched The Visitor.

2261
01:37:45.840 --> 01:37:49.380
You know, we've watched In the Power Moonlight, we've watched all

2262
01:37:49.380 --> 01:37:51.600
good things, generations.

2263
01:37:51.659 --> 01:37:54.420
Yeah, this is technically the finale of Enterprise.

2264
01:37:54.479 --> 01:37:57.300
So I'm going to keep rolling till I get something truly middle of

2265
01:37:57.300 --> 01:37:57.779
the road.

2266
01:37:57.840 --> 01:37:58.260
Trivial.

2267
01:37:58.319 --> 01:38:00.000
Yes, nothing.

2268
01:38:00.000 --> 01:38:02.039
Meat and potatoes trick, you know?

2269
01:38:02.100 --> 01:38:02.699
All right.

2270
01:38:02.760 --> 01:38:03.180
Okay.

2271
01:38:03.239 --> 01:38:04.739
All right, go for it now.

2272
01:38:04.800 --> 01:38:07.020
Uh, okay.

2273
01:38:07.079 --> 01:38:08.640
Oh, no, this is really goody.

2274
01:38:08.699 --> 01:38:10.319
Actually, sorry, we're not having this.

2275
01:38:10.380 --> 01:38:13.319
Your random Star Trek Next Generation episode is 1st contact.

2276
01:38:13.439 --> 01:38:15.239
Season four, episode 15.

2277
01:38:15.539 --> 01:38:16.920
It is really good.

2278
01:38:16.979 --> 01:38:18.539
It's really fun.

2279
01:38:18.600 --> 01:38:19.380
Okay.

2280
01:38:19.439 --> 01:38:23.939
Uh, Your random Star Trek Nation Nation episode is future

2281
01:38:23.939 --> 01:38:24.720
imperfect.

2282
01:38:24.779 --> 01:38:26.579
No, that's too good as well.

2283
01:38:26.640 --> 01:38:27.840
I don't think that's that good.

2284
01:38:27.899 --> 01:38:29.159
That's all right.

2285
01:38:29.220 --> 01:38:31.020
That's that's middle, middle of the road.

2286
01:38:31.079 --> 01:38:32.640
That's meat and potatoes I think.

2287
01:38:32.760 --> 01:38:33.899
Are you mad?

2288
01:38:33.960 --> 01:38:34.859
Oh, okay.

2289
01:38:34.920 --> 01:38:36.600
I've already pressed that. so sorry.

2290
01:38:37.020 --> 01:38:41.399
Your random Star Trek original series episode is Operation

2291
01:38:41.399 --> 01:38:42.300
Annihilate.

2292
01:38:42.420 --> 01:38:46.199
Ooh, okay, I'm sure that's terrible, but I can't remember.

2293
01:38:46.260 --> 01:38:46.920
Right.

2294
01:38:46.979 --> 01:38:48.000
I have seen it.

2295
01:38:48.060 --> 01:38:51.180
Season one, episode 29.

2296
01:38:51.420 --> 01:38:52.680
Is that the finale?

2297
01:38:52.739 --> 01:38:55.260
No, no, they didn't have finale.

2298
01:38:55.319 --> 01:38:57.539
You can barely tell when one season begins or ends.

2299
01:38:57.600 --> 01:38:59.520
It's just another episode that comes along.

2300
01:38:59.579 --> 01:39:02.279
I think that might be a bit good actually.

2301
01:39:02.399 --> 01:39:04.079
I'm gonna press it one more time.

2302
01:39:04.140 --> 01:39:06.420
Oh, it's a Voyager episode.

2303
01:39:06.479 --> 01:39:07.859
Oh, yeah, this is perfect.

2304
01:39:07.920 --> 01:39:09.720
This is absolutely perfect.

2305
01:39:09.779 --> 01:39:10.739
All right.

2306
01:39:10.800 --> 01:39:16.380
A miserable season 3 episode of Star Wars, season three, episode

2307
01:39:16.380 --> 01:39:18.000
18, Darkling.

2308
01:39:18.060 --> 01:39:20.699
Oh, I can't even remember what that is.

2309
01:39:20.699 --> 01:39:26.100
Massively cab episode. where the doctor has like a Frankenstein

2310
01:39:26.100 --> 01:39:28.380
transformation and he's evil.

2311
01:39:28.439 --> 01:39:31.619
Kidnaps cares, takes her over a ravine.

2312
01:39:32.039 --> 01:39:33.659
That sounds great.

2313
01:39:33.720 --> 01:39:35.640
That sounds too good to watch.

2314
01:39:35.699 --> 01:39:37.920
All right. that's awesome Let's do that.

2315
01:39:37.979 --> 01:39:40.920
It's abysmally terrible but great fun.

2316
01:39:42.899 --> 01:39:44.880
Oh, let's do it.

2317
01:39:54.000 --> 01:39:58.140
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

2318
01:39:58.140 --> 01:39:59.159
and Nathan Bottomley.

2319
01:39:59.220 --> 01:40:02.399
We're online at Untitled Star Trek Project.com where you can find

2320
01:40:02.399 --> 01:40:04.800
links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

2321
01:40:04.859 --> 01:40:08.579
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was

2322
01:40:08.579 --> 01:40:10.319
composed by Cameron Lamb.

2323
01:40:10.380 --> 01:40:14.399
This episode was recorded on the 10th of January 2023 and released

2324
01:40:14.399 --> 01:40:15.960
on the 13th of January.

2325
01:40:16.020 --> 01:40:19.800
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Voyager, Darkly.

2326
01:40:36.239 --> 01:40:39.000
Okay, I'm talking, and that's working.

2327
01:40:39.060 --> 01:40:39.779
Say something.

2328
01:40:40.739 --> 01:40:42.239
Hello.

2329
01:40:42.300 --> 01:40:43.500
Hello, hello.

2330
01:40:43.560 --> 01:40:44.819
Okay, that's brilliant.

2331
01:40:44.880 --> 01:40:46.380
It's been a long road.

2332
01:40:46.500 --> 01:40:48.960
Getting from out of here.

2333
01:40:49.020 --> 01:40:52.739
It's a long time.

2334
01:40:53.100 --> 01:40:57.539
Now, my time is finally, it's finally here.

2335
01:40:57.779 --> 01:41:00.239
And I can see, what's the next bit?

2336
01:41:00.300 --> 01:41:02.760
See my dreams come alive at last.

2337
01:41:02.880 --> 01:41:05.159
I will touch the sky.

2338
01:41:05.159 --> 01:41:06.600
I can touch the sky.

2339
01:41:06.600 --> 01:41:11.460
And I'm not gonna...

2340
01:41:11.520 --> 01:41:15.000
I'm not gonna change my mind.

2341
01:41:16.079 --> 01:41:20.880
Because I've got things. of the heart. of the heart.

2342
01:41:20.939 --> 01:41:22.020
It so great.

2343
01:41:22.079 --> 01:41:23.100
I sing it.

2344
01:41:23.159 --> 01:41:23.579
I do.

2345
01:41:23.640 --> 01:41:26.819
I like absolutely sing it when it's on.

2346
01:41:27.060 --> 01:41:30.359
Nathan, you know that's got to be the tag now, right?

2347
01:41:30.420 --> 01:41:31.140
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2348
01:41:31.859 --> 01:41:34.140
It's the...

2349
01:41:34.140 --> 01:41:37.199
It's the...

2350
01:41:37.260 --> 01:41:38.279
It had to happen at some point.

2351
01:41:40.619 --> 01:41:42.239
I've got...

2352
01:41:42.600 --> 01:41:44.819
That's a very oil lover.

2353
01:41:44.880 --> 01:41:48.659
It's just, it couldn't get any chooses.

2354
01:41:48.720 --> 01:41:49.560
It's so bad.

2355
01:41:49.619 --> 01:41:51.180
And they peep it up.

2356
01:41:51.239 --> 01:41:53.399
They do what they do in deep say sign, don't they?

2357
01:41:53.460 --> 01:41:54.720
They peep it up for series three.

2358
01:41:54.779 --> 01:41:58.079
They kind of go, actually, there's this needs to be even more

2359
01:41:58.079 --> 01:41:58.500
exciting.

2360
01:42:04.020 --> 01:42:06.420
So, so cheesy.

2361
01:42:06.479 --> 01:42:13.500
I did love the original music when they when they launched Space

2362
01:42:13.500 --> 01:42:16.619
Station Archer or whatever it was in Discovery.

2363
01:42:16.680 --> 01:42:18.659
Well, yeah, you can rip it now.

2364
01:42:18.720 --> 01:42:20.699
I mean, that's that's...

2365
01:42:20.699 --> 01:42:27.479
That thing.

2366
01:42:27.539 --> 01:42:28.680
At the end.

2367
01:42:28.739 --> 01:42:31.560
Even that's, even that's, that's an illeration.

2368
01:42:31.739 --> 01:42:36.600
I've I've watched 2 episodes of prodigy yesterday and like my eyes

2369
01:42:36.600 --> 01:42:38.819
start to prickle at the music.

2370
01:42:38.880 --> 01:42:41.520
I just think the music is so fucking great.

2371
01:42:41.579 --> 01:42:46.260
Like just astonishingly great for like a kid's cartoon.

2372
01:42:46.319 --> 01:42:47.460
It's so good.

2373
01:42:47.520 --> 01:42:49.380
And yeah, do you know what?

2374
01:42:49.439 --> 01:42:50.460
Jay Chataway.

2375
01:42:50.520 --> 01:42:53.819
This was his last score, the Star Trek. this episode.

2376
01:42:53.880 --> 01:42:56.159
Oh, the music was so dreary in this.

2377
01:42:56.220 --> 01:42:57.359
I was like, Jay, come on.

2378
01:42:57.420 --> 01:43:00.899
Did you see the, like, there's all this stuff on memory alpha, like

2379
01:43:00.899 --> 01:43:06.960
he, he, he created a drawing of the enterprise out of riffs from

2380
01:43:06.960 --> 01:43:11.100
the score that he'd written, like, and he, he gave copies to

2381
01:43:11.100 --> 01:43:13.500
everyone and stuff, like it was like this thing.

2382
01:43:13.560 --> 01:43:17.640
It looked like it's the, you know, the NX one shape but made out

2383
01:43:17.640 --> 01:43:18.539
of musical notation.

2384
01:43:19.619 --> 01:43:23.579
I think that, actually, no, I'm going to say this in the episode.

2385
01:43:23.640 --> 01:43:25.619
It's worth saying in the episode.

2386
01:43:26.640 --> 01:43:28.020
Okay.

2387
01:43:29.279 --> 01:43:31.020
Shall we do it?

2388
01:43:31.380 --> 01:43:34.439
No, wait, I don't know whether I've heard the demons.

2389
01:43:34.500 --> 01:43:35.220
This isn't demons.

2390
01:43:35.279 --> 01:43:36.239
This is Terra Prime.

2391
01:43:36.300 --> 01:43:38.039
Yeah, this is demons.

2392
01:43:38.039 --> 01:43:38.760
Episode 20.

2393
01:43:39.300 --> 01:43:40.800
Okay.

2394
01:43:40.859 --> 01:43:45.119
It's actually quite nice for ones to be, to have a, you know, and

2395
01:43:45.119 --> 01:43:48.960
yeah, it's actually quite nice because there are a lot of

2396
01:43:48.960 --> 01:43:51.359
positives in it, whilst I don't think it's...

2397
01:43:51.359 --> 01:43:52.079
It's a lot of bread.

2398
01:43:52.140 --> 01:43:52.920
Not bad.

2399
01:43:52.979 --> 01:43:54.479
It didn't, yeah.

2400
01:43:54.539 --> 01:43:55.739
Not as good as.

2401
01:43:55.800 --> 01:43:57.899
If it started here, yeah, yeah.

2402
01:43:57.899 --> 01:43:58.859
It's not as good as well.

2403
01:43:58.859 --> 01:44:00.960
There's a night in Sick Bay, but it is pretty good.

2404
01:44:04.020 --> 01:44:09.239
The most entertaining episode of Enterprise I've ever watched.

2405
01:44:09.300 --> 01:44:11.220
It's got a puppet dog.

2406
01:44:11.279 --> 01:44:14.520
Are you feeling are you sexually frustrated?

2407
01:44:14.579 --> 01:44:17.100
It's got it's got Archer.

2408
01:44:17.159 --> 01:44:18.359
Yeah, true.

2409
01:44:18.359 --> 01:44:20.460
Flocks catching a bat.

2410
01:44:20.520 --> 01:44:22.619
This doesn't have enough flocks in it.

2411
01:44:22.680 --> 01:44:23.399
It's too serious.

2412
01:44:23.460 --> 01:44:26.760
No, I, that was, that, I thought that was a bit of an amazing.

2413
01:44:27.359 --> 01:44:27.840
That's why.

2414
01:44:27.899 --> 01:44:29.880
That's why it's so boring because he's not enough.

2415
01:44:32.939 --> 01:44:33.539
Right.

2416
01:44:34.140 --> 01:44:37.979
Hey, Joe. Why?