Hey, Joe. Hi.
This is a bit of an exciting moment for us because we are actually
watching a two-part enterprise story from series four.
It's the 1st time we've strayed out of series one and series two
and it's the 1st time I've ever watched any series 4 of Enterprise
at all.
And I actually thought it was pretty good.
I think this is for enterprise.
And that is a big caveat there.
Very good.
Yeah.
I think I think it where sort of putting it in comparison to the
rest of Star Trek.
It's just good.
Yeah, I think it's just good.
I think it does do things that only enterprise can do.
And it does cover some ground that we might have had before, but
we'll talk about that as we sort of go in.
But, you know, we actually rolled these are the voyages at the end
of last episode, didn't we, and decided not to do it, and then got
this instead.
And I'm kind of glad of that because I think this does actually
form a fairly solid final episode and it sort of says what we've
been doing all this time and why we're here in a way that I think
is reasonably satisfying, if not sort of technically brilliant.
Oh, you know, I thought it was okay.
Like you said to me on the chart.
This is uniquely enterprise as well.
Like only Enterprise could tell this story.
I'm pretty pleased we didn't roll, these are the voyages because I
watched that after this.
And I'm not sure you could possibly be prepared for the profanity
that I would express if we were doing a commentary for that one
but can I drop a tiny bit of trivia, always, a quote from Manicoso
about these 2 episodes?
Because I think there's a bit of a discussion about whether this
is the enterprise finale or whether these are the voyages or the
enterprise finale.
And as far as I can tell, the production team considered demons
and Terra Prime to be the enterprise finale and these are the
voyages to be the sort of the 90s trek. finale.
So Koto says, I really like those episodes.
My heart was really in that because I felt it was a fitting end
for the series.
The show ended up coming back to the earth, and to our solar
system, and the idea that humanity still had one hurdle to go
through, and that was a part of humanity, was not accepting of
aliens and aliens in our world because some people felt we were
being corrupted.
We had to exercise our last vestige of xenophobia.
I thought it was a really fitting end for enterprise because one
of the basic tenets of Star Trek is infinite diversity in infinite
combinations.
This was a way to address that idea that we not quite reach there
yet.
You had a character played by Peter Weller, who wanted aliens to
leave the earth and was against comingling with aliens.
And we ended up with a wonderful speech by Captain Archer, and a
wonderful performance by Scott Bacula in front of the Nascent
Federation, which kind of laid down the idea for Star Trek.
Yeah.
So that's what they were going for here.
Then he's asked about these are the voyages.
And he says not to deride these are the voyages.
We, Brandon, Rick and I always looked at Demons and Terra Prime as
the finale for Enterprise.
And these are the voyages was intended to be a finale for the
entire 18 year run of Star Trek, starting with NextGen, and all
the ways to Enterprise.
So this is it.
This is, this is, Enterprises, what you leave behind, Endgame, you
know, this is, this is their ending.
Yeah, and I think, you know, one of the things that I like about
modern trek is that it foregrounds, those principles.
And in fact, you know, this makes me think of, you know, not just
the Terran Empire, who is kind of suggested by Tara Prime.
That's where we end up if the Terra Prime.
People win.
I know that's not true because the timeline diverges before 1st
contact, according to this show, but the Terran Empire is
xenophobic and so on.
We had that as the major theme of Picard series 2.
You know, there was a big choice that was going to take place in
2024 and are we going to reject aliens and regard them as
enemies?
Are we going to be the Confederation or the Federation?
And so that's what's being addressed here.
And given the kind of discomfort that Braga and Berman had with
those ideas and how little they seem to enjoy kind of centring
them, I thought it was really refreshing for Enterprise to do
this.
And I think it did it reasonably well.
Yeah, I agree.
Interestingly, there's the two part Mirror Universe episode
directly before this.
Oh, it shows you, it kind of shows you the direction we could have
gone in in a very crazy comic book way with a runaround on the
original series defiant with a gone and things like that.
So I've also got a quote here from Rick Berman.
Okay.
I want to sort of dig into a little bit about why he thought
the...
Yeah.
And he says, it's kind of something you said to me before as
well.
The fact that we've done 624 hours of Star Trek over the last 18
years.
There's a point where you can reach a sense of overkill.
It's probably a good idea to lay fallow for a while and
rejuvenate.
Franchise fatigue is how he describes it.
Yeah.
You could kind of point at enterprise and save franchise for city
couldn't you?
Oh yeah, I think so.
And I think we've made that point before.
And when we did generations, we could see it in evidence too, that
it was in desperate need of some new blood.
And one of the ways that, you know, again, Kurtzman Trek has dealt
with that is by having different creative teams on all of the
different shows and giving the shows each a sort of distinct
identity.
So it doesn't seem like the sort of thing you can run out of.
And, of course, just in a few weeks' time, maybe just over a
month.
We're going to get the final season, probably, of Picard, which
means that they're happy to end things before they get tired
rather than long, long afterwards.
I don't mean to be improper.
But before, you know, we start losing some of the cast.
Well, yeah, there's that too.
That's that too.
Yeah, I mean, enterprise has always been a bit touch and go, hasn't
it?
You know, like they clearly do the Zindiak in series 3 because
they're worried that the show isn't working and there's talk about
it. cancellation and maybe it's going to be cancelled at the end
of series 3, but then they ended on a califhanger.
You know, they're surprised, are they not, to get a 4th year?
I think so.
Yeah.
I think they thought at the end of three, that was kind of going
to be it.
So they're like, well screw it.
We're going to do what we always wanted to do, which is a season
long arc and just throw everything at it.
And I think, you know, I often praise DS Knight, but I think one
of the reasons that 90s trick had that kind of 18 year run was
because they did run off in another direction and do something a
bit different.
And I think they've creatively, they kept it quite interesting.
Whereas Voyager and Enterprise were just sort of towing the next
generation line, weren't they?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, in a way that was kind of disappointing and perhaps not what
was intended.
And one of the things that I like about this is that it's set in
the solar system and on earth.
And like it does that with sort of varying degrees of success, but
I like that as a backdrop.
That's interesting.
I know you're going to have a few things to say about the CGI in
this.
I actually thought they did a fairly decent job of realising
fairly decent.
Yeah, some of it's really terribly good.
I mean, it's 20 years old now, isn't it?
no, no, no.
I know, I know.
But I guess the thing with Star Trek is there is something a bit
cheap about just having a ship and it goes to completely different
places every week.
And it's not until Star Trek, the Next Generation comes along that
we start to build up a world.
And then that's obviously gets filled into by Deep Space Nine
which really does that job more than any other Star Trek show.
And so we have different places and staff.
And Deep Space 9 is the 1st Star Trek to go back and set like a
two-part story on Earth unless I'm mistaken.
And we have family in series 4 of Star Trek, the Next Generation
which is set more or less entirely on Earth.
And I love that.
It gives it a feel that the films have, you know, that the
original series films have of not just being set in space, but
being set in our future and I liked that.
That was maybe the thing I liked about this the most.
And because it's the end, things happen that make a difference.
We don't just go back to the status quo at the beginning and I
think that's pretty good too.
Well, you know, before we head into the episode.
I'd like to set you a challenge.
Okay.
At some point.
Well, you got a bit of time coming in the future.
And my challenge to you is this, is to watch the bulk of, if not
all, of series 4 of Enterprise, because I think you'll probably be
pleasantly surprised.
I think they've learned a lot of lessons.
And I don't think Demons and Terror Prime are peak series 4, but
they are good.
They've sort of established the characters.
They've realised Archer's a prick and they're doing some repair
work on that.
They've tried the season-long arc and tried to be massively
ambitious.
And so they've kind of in four, they do these condensed arcs of 3
episodes.
They're truly leaning into trek continuity in a way that Kursman
Trek does and they're establishing a lot of things that we would
come to see in the original series of Next Generation.
Their production values improved.
I think you might be pleasantly surprised, you know, if you watch
the whole of four.
All right.
Well, I'm probably sort of duty bound to do it, given that I'm on
a Star Trek podcast.
It seems a bit embarrassing to admit that I haven't seen some of
it and that's much of enterprise is...
And naturally, you know, as you can imagine, there's still some
absolute shockers in there as well.
Oh, good.
Just for your... prime enjoyment.
Should we watch those?
Yeah, all right.
I will count us in in that case.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.
I can't believe you have to tell me that was Robocop, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
So Peter Weller.
And this doctor, he's not going to last very long into the
episode.
Peter Weller, I think, does an amazingly good job of this.
So they were always wearing just suits and ties.
So were they wearing spacesuits and ties in series one?
Were they just wearing contemporary?
I thought they were wearing a lot.
The boiler suits and things?
You know, they're all, yeah, they're all in Star Trek-y style.
Maybe this is another innovation.
Yeah, maybe.
I do seem to remember suits and ties or at least collars and ties
in series one, like in Broken Bow.
Um, So these 2 men are in a room and we are panning down to see
that there's a baby with CGI pointed ears.
Indeed.
I thought that was quite effective, though, because I think we're
all expecting it to be, I don't know, some, I don't know, I was
expecting something hideous, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
I thought that was a nice a nice little surprise.
Well, it's a good way of selling that he's a villain or at least a
massive weirdo because it's like a cute baby with non-slight
slightest possible non-human features and he's horrified by it or
you know, super apprehensive about it.
Like I said to you, uh, before, they've ceded in season 4 up to
this finale.
So there's been mentions of like, there's not so many aliens on
earth these days.
There's been some attacks on people in other episodes, and Terra
Prime has been mentioned a couple of times.
So it's a bit like a Rusty Davis arc in the early days of the
Doctor Who revival, you know, just a few hints and whispers, but
enough to give this a bit of substance when it finally comes
around.
Right.
It's funny too, isn't it?
Because they do their big post 911 thing where all bets are off
and we don't have to care about anyone and we can just steal their
warp core and run off and do whatever it takes.
And now we have something that's the opposite of that.
No, I think it's a huge moral failure.
It's disgraceful.
Is that your new favourite episode of Enterprise?
It's yeah, yeah.
Well, so far, it's one of my favourites.
Terrible.
Oh, here we go.
CGI Starfleet headquarters.
Yeah, so this is the thing about this is we've seen Starfleet
headquarters before in Star Trek, the Next Generation, but this is
different because it's, you know, a couple of 100 years earlier.
I think there's something about the CGI that I dislike and I think
it has to do with the texture.
Everything's just sort of uniformly dirty gray, which I just think
looks...
I thought that a bit black.
There's no need for that.
And they always feel like, I don't know if you noticed.
Remember we were stigma and we had the sort of establishing shot
of the hospital complex or wherever it was?
And they sort of sweeps across the CGI and they always do the same
movement.
It's not a sort of dynamic, is it?
It's a bit like the old mat shots in 90s trek.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, well, they were good though.
So we are actually on location.
That is actually genuinely outside that sunlight you're seeing
through the doors.
It is a little bit of a pity that this is all we can afford
though.
And the only audience is them standing on the stairs, you know?
Yeah, but did you not, is it in the 2nd part of this?
No, it's in these are the voyages where they put in the CGI
crowd.
Archer walks out.
Oh, it's terrible.
Maybe it is for the best.
Now, look, the entire enterprise crew is assembled here and, you
know, I'm going to say something.
No, just the regulars.
No, it's not all 80s.
That is in a prize crew.
That's right.
Everybody gets a car of the pie in this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Hoshi and and Travis, who are the ones that we haven't actually
really talked about because they've barely been in the episodes
we've covered.
Both get great scenes, I thought.
Yeah, yeah.
So here's Harry Groner, who we know from Buffy.
Yeah, it was so much more charming in Buffy, wasn't he?
He is Tin Man in Tin Man alongside Deanna Troy.
So he plays a betas...
And he was more eccentric in Tin Man.
In fact, he was more fun than all of his other appearances I've
seen him in.
Here is just sort of a standard politician who turns out to have
had previous racist leanings in his past.
Yes, yeah, that's right.
That's right.
But he's a good actor, isn't he?
Yeah, no, and he's doing the thing.
I mean, he works as a politician.
He was the mayor in Buffy, I guess.
And so he is the unfortunately named Gannet.
Jesus Christ.
That's her 1st name.
She's called Gannet.
She's like a filthy thing about black men.
Oh, no.
Don't say that.
That's such a, such a terrible, terrible, that's such a terrible
name.
Just super super upsetting.
You know, and I did, I did really like these things.
What just won just because is it Meriweather or Mayweather?
Mayweather.
I still can't decide.
Just because he actually finally had a chance to do some acting 4
years into this show.
I don't know if this is the most sizzling chemistry I've ever seen
between 2 actors.
No, no.
It's a bit of a shame, but it is actually nice to see him get
something to do.
She's not particularly likeable and she's also called Gannet.
So, you know, that's a problem as well, I think.
I do think this was this woman coming along.
Yes.
So she just walks into the conference room.
Her name is Couri, and she's been phased or stabbed or something
is that what's happening?
It looks like the shittiest conference centre room.
Like a bad 90s hotel.
Look at how it's all kind of all the interior decoration.
It is nice to see all these aliens about though, isn't it?
Because like we said before, there's a bit of a whitewash on
Enterprise, isn't there?
when it comes to aliens.
So we've got Tellerites and we've got some Andorians.
Oh, that's a nasty one.
That's going to sting.
Those animated antennae on the Andorians make me laugh.
Every time you've got Jeffrey Coombs there, usually, giving this
like fantastic performance, but all I hang up to...
Okay, wiggling tent.
That's so great Now I think they've done something to the ship.
Am I crazy or have all of the computer displays been updated to be
more interesting and colourful?
They're a bit brighter, aren't they?
It's almost like we're heading towards TOS a little bit.
Yeah, because the bridge, I think, looks more interesting as
well.
And it does look more Star Treky.
In the previous story, they rebuild the Defiant set from TOS, which
is essentially the enterprise there.
Maybe the designer was going, well, this is a lot more fun than
the usual boring sets we do.
Well, let's start these ones up.
Because apparently there was some sort of plan if we'd gone onto
series 5, we would have had the Enterprise.
Enterprise would have been refitted and maybe even remodelled a
bit, I think, but obviously.
No, I do I do think they were hitting their stride here.
And I think it is a crying shame.
They didn't have a season five.
Even if that was the last season.
Because I think it probably could have been like the ininverted
commerce enterprise season, you know?
It was sort of a strange thing.
I don't know where they thought they were originally going.
So I think series one is set in 2150 or something or 2151 maybe.
Um, And the Enterprise.
I mean, the Enterprise, sorry.
The Federation starts in 2161.
And the only reason we know that is that Deanna mentions it in a
poker game.
She says, you know, today's variation is Federation Day and 2s
ones and 6s are wild or something.
Like she's explaining the rules and that's the only way that we
know.
So we're 10 years out from the foundation of the federation.
So we were never going to reach that in the show because Star Trek
always does, you know, one season is a year, like they always do
that.
And I guess they could have decided that they were heading in that
direction.
But obviously they had no sort of real long-term plan for what
they were going to do.
Well, you and I have already detailed, haven't we?
In the season one episodes that we've done, the sort of long list
of complaints that we have about their creative decisions
everything from, you know, the incredibly dull, uh, central cast
of characters, the appalling way they characterise the Vulcans, you
know, like just the board, the very slight storytelling archer.
Yeah.
Whereas I think had they started here with a bit more substantive
storytelling, actually leaning into Star Trek continuity and
having lots of Easter eggs and things like that.
So had they started there, I, they could have gone somewhere
extraordinary, I think.
I think it's uh, it's intended as a sequel to 1st contact rather
than a prequel to um, Star Trek, the original series, don't you?
Well, that's what, but then Manikoto comes in and basically says
but, you know, Burman and Bragger are essentially demoted, I was
reading.
They were said, she's like, this isn't working.
You ain't getting the ratings in.
You're off because they started off.
I think they started off around 6000000 per episode and come the
end of series three.
They were getting sort of 2.5 million.
They lost over half their audience.
So manic character has come in to sort of give it a drive in the
last season.
And um and I think he succeeded.
Right.
Yeah, okay.
Well, I'll tell you once I've finished watching series 4, I'll
definitely do that.
I do have time.
So we've got this whole plot here of, um, Trip and Tapol and their
baby that Tapol never conceived.
Yes, she's never been pregnant.
So, um, I don't know what's happened, like they've just taken both
their handkerchiefs or something and got DNA or something.
Someone stole into Paul's comb.
It's a way to bring them into the story, isn't it?
But apart from that.
Is there any reason at all why it has to be tripping to poll?
Um, well, I mean, are they in a relationship at this point?
Yeah, I think so.
Yes.
Yeah.
I think so.
Yeah.
Because it's not like we've certainly been exploring that in the
last few seasons.
Okay.
They have certainly had sex lately.
I telling you.
Well, this boy.
So we had an establishing shot of some city.
I'm not quite sure what city it was.
You're talking about this backdrop here, aren't you?
Shitty, shitty backdrop, and it is better than that photo, the
blown up photograph in stigma, which was almost impossible to read
as the city.
This is also almost impossible to read as a city, but at least
they're sort of trying, I guess.
It almost works.
Look, when they're away from it and it's far in the distance.
But at the beginning of the scene, he's right in front of this
cardboard backdrop.
I'm like, why are you showing this for what it is?
Like, there are rooftops.
This is the thing.
This is the 90 straight thing.
We're shooting this with all the production values of a daytime
soap opera, and we can't even go onto the roof of the fucking
building we're in and shoot it.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, why aren't we doing that?
It's outrageous.
It's so bad.
So this is section 31 and it turns out that Malcolm has had some
relationship with them, this guy is called, what's he called?
operative.
I believe that's that's dropped earlier. as well.
Okay.
So I'm guessing I'm guessing DSNI has made a bit of an impact
somewhere.
Yeah, so is section 31 in this?
Or is it just this?
So I think in in Maniko's desire to stretch out and sort of, you
know, pay lip service.
He's looking in every direction.
A bit like Kurtzman Trick.
Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, no, that's good.
But you're not so keen on that, are you?
You're not so keen on section 31 and...
No, I think section.
No, not, I think, I think that it undermines the message of Star
Trek, but I understand in the 90s where they want to kind of, you
know, critique, critique the Federation, and the Federation's kind
of America, you know, in all sorts of ways.
And so that's a legitimate thing to do, and there's the FBI and
the CIA and stuff.
So section 31 You know, it seems like the right thing to do.
I think with Kurtzman Trek, though, given that it's trying to
position itself against, you know, being opportunistic and and
lacking kind of any sort of principles, it can't really afford to
have Section 31.
And so if they do do the section 31 with cousin Michelle, it'll be
interesting to see how they do that, given how they generally
present the federation in other shows.
I feel like it justifies its existence just because she's going to
be in it.
Well, if they're going to do a show with Cousin Michelle.
She may be too big for a spy now, I think.
It's just possible that we don't get her back.
I don't know.
Okay. you know, I was on, I was on, sorry, very quickly.
I was on Facebook the other day and that Star Trek game popped up
an advert for it.
You know where they're bringing all the actors and they're playing
the Star Trek game against each other?
And there's Michelle fucking Yo. doing an ad for the...
With the fellow who played Harry Mudd.
No, Michelle, you can't royal dialogue against me.
And she goes, die.
It's not...
That's great.
See, that's a massive movie style.
This is actually quite good because we had CG and then we had the
Golden Gate Bridge, which is really great.
Look at that. weird alien.
I don't know.
We do get a cretassin later on.
The race of people that Archer had to apologise to in Nighting
Sick Bay.
The shame is, is like they've kind of learned that they can go
beyond doing the humanoid alien in series 3 when they have, and
you remember like the turtles and things like that.
Oh, yeah.
And the insect toys.
No, but they're trying to do something different, you know?
Yeah, but they can't do it outside and moving the camera and stuff
like in the, you know, outside of the studio.
They just don't have enough control of the environment would be my
guess.
I don't think they could drop an alien, a CG alien, a Zindi
insectoid in the background of this shot and make...
My favourite alien in Star Trek now is that blob from Prodigy.
Oh, wait, you don't know what's happened with Murph.
No, if he's died, then I'll never forget.
No, of course he hasn't.
It's a kid's show and he's a he's a baby.
He's a toddler.
I also like the blobbing...
Oh, good grief.
What was that show called with Penny Johnson and Gerald?
Oh, yeah.
Well, yeah, he died.
Norman McDonald, yeah, for...
Yeah, yeah.
The Orville.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Now we're confronting now we can confronting Harry with his weird
Nazi background.
He obviously was a member of the Republican Party or something
sometime earlier in the 22nd century and he's super embarrassed
about it.
So he's learned, you know, I don't know.
Like, I'm not quite sure.
We didn't get a chance to do anything but sort of stand there.
Yeah, in a sort of beige way.
No, think about the mayor in, who was just so funny, so charming.
And he's the villain of the piece and you just wanted him to win
the whole time.
Yeah.
Well, I think that the thing that this doesn't manage is to be
much fun.
Like it is very serious.
I said that you didn't know that there wasn't much human in this.
Yeah.
Which is a shame because, again, that two-par Mirror Universe
episode they've just done, which had Hoshi as like the villain of
the piece, murder everybody.
It was great fun. yeah.
It's kind of hot, you know, Anthony Montgomery.
In a minute, he's in the bed with his top off and I was very
jealous of this woman.
Yeah, so he's young, isn't he?
He's kind of, oh, it's him and Troop.
I get something eye candy in this show.
I wonder if anyone's actually engaged Bourbon and Bracker to ask
the question as to why he had so few opportunities because I don't
think he's the best actor in the world, but he's got a bit of
charm about him.
I mean, it's Star Trek, you know, not being the best actor in the
world has never got in the way of any of the regular...
That's not true.
That's true.
There's a couple of Roberts and...
Gates McFadden.
Yeah, yeah.
But Bart, you know, like I think he's perfectly charming and he's
sort of young and good looking.
I don't see any reason why he, you know, he couldn't have been
given more to do.
No, they're doing the 3 who rule, aren't they, Enterprise?
They're focussing on a trip to Paul and Archer.
That's basically where the focus is.
Look at this.
This is so funny.
This is the 2 of them explaining the status of their relationship
to each other.
It's just the most kind of terrible life.
Are we are we still in the 90s here?
Can I still call this 90s trek?
Are we in the 2000s?
Yeah, we're not in the 90s, but yes, UK.
Okay.
All of that relationship dialogue. and there's a lot of it.
Well, they still don't do some text.
So, you know what?
I'm not sure if I like you anymore, but you want to fuck?
That's right.
But no, no.
I mean, they can't do that.
It's still Star Trek is still PG rated.
They can't do anything much like that.
And they don't do some text.
It is absolutely, it is like it's more and more I'm realising
daytime soap opera much more than anything else.
This is what this is like.
The characters always say what they're thinking of flocks in this
two-polter, in that he kind of has to develop an emotional
attachment to this baby that he's trying to save.
And there's no real context for it all.
But he absolutely in that the moment in the 2nd episode, where he
says it's like losing one of his own children. really sells it.
Oh, I think he does too.
But it's all down to the acting and not at all down to the
writing.
No.
And is it the way they're lighting him or is it the way they're
making him up?
He just looks like he's got into the rouge a bit, you know, like
he's, he seems to, it, it looks like makeup rather than a
handcuff.
I always look a bit...
I mean, it's like they're trying to make him sort of sexy flocks
you know?
No, it's certainly very weird.
I mean, he, I think, is the best one in the crew, isn't he, the
best one in the in the car.
He's the most interesting character.
Yeah.
And that maybe the best actor.
Something you said about Paul Werner's character is that you have
to be like utterly uncharismatic.
Um, in the role.
And he succeeds very well.
Without it being a bad performance.
No.
So so he is playing basically a white supremacist.
I actually think it's a little bit like I, there are 2 major roles
in this sort of Terra Prime thing that are played by black actors
right?
So there's this guy, Daniel.
And later on, we're going to get someone called Josiah, who's
working in the mines on the moon.
And they're black and it's kind of like, no, we've moved beyond
worrying about colour, but what we worry about is different
species.
And so that's something that's sort of worth saying.
But also, like I just kind of think that sometimes, you know, in
this, it might have been better if just white people owned their
shit and realised that we were the people doing the racism all
along.
And so making the black people be racist, you know, seems very
inclusive and stuff, but it also kind of allies the fact that it's
basically something that white people do, you know, like at least
in the in the American context of the European context and stuff.
When we were going, when we go down to the mining facility, the
fella gets up and makes the speech and he's a black guy.
And I was like, I was really wondering what it was saying about me
that I was a little bit awkward.
I felt a bit awkward because it was a black man making that speech
about xenophobia.
And it's not, it's not that I think the black people should know
better, like they should know their own history and how, you know
how can they be?
how could they be racist that's outrageous?
Like, I think, like, for the science fiction, they want to make it
human beings versus others.
But, like, it's a white person thing.
You know, it's something that white people have done.
And it just seems a bit weird.
Whereas Peter Weller.
So Peter Weller is a white supremacist and he's a villain.
And so he can't be fun and he can't be camping it up and he
doesn't do that at all. absence of a sense of humour, does he?
Oh, look at this.
He's just injected himself with something, but he's not killing
himself, sadly, like Jake, it was in the previous episode.
So yes, he can't be fun.
He can't be an enjoyable performance.
He can't be a fun villain.
And so he's just a thick, uncharismatic asshole.
I do think that's the right decision, but it does mean this is
incredibly sort of worthy rather than a lot of fun.
Like, you and me watched the Serene Squall where that fabulous
woman pirate was capping it up to, and it was the most delightful
thing ever, but you can't really do that with this subject
matter.
No, that's right.
But I mean, it needs to, like, it needs to be that serious.
Like, I don't think it's, oh, it's not sombre. you know what?
Oh, DS Long goes it right.
You have the female shapeshifter who's utterly without humour, the
same lines like, you know, I want the Cardassians exterminated.
And then you've got Weyer and camping it up to the side going, oh
how many of them, you know?
So Deep Space 9 sort of does this, doesn't it?
So there is a two-part episode, and I want to say homefront.
Paradise Lost.
Yeah.
And so it does a similar thing, doesn't it?
So the human beings start to become isolationist because there are
shapeshifters around or something.
There, yeah, they're, he's basically the admiral, the evil admiral
of the week is absolutely petrified.
So he wants the illusion.
So he creates the illusion that the shapeshifters are attacking
Earth.
So he can militarise the planet.
So it's all about paranoia.
So it's not, and it's really, really effective as well.
But it's kind of done on a smaller scale than this because they
just don't have the money for it.
Yeah.
But again, I think there's something about earth, like setting it
on earth.
And I mean, a lot of these scenes are said on enterprise, which is
understandable.
But, you know, like, what might have been nice.
Hey, we're back on Earth.
If some of these people caught up with their families and things
you know?
Like in that, you've got fame.
Jake Cisco saying, you know, grandpa, take your medicine and then
you got, oh, grandpa, Cisco, go in.
Look, I've got a half a dozen bags of clams out there that need
cleaning.
Don't you start with me, all right?
You know, like, it's really fun.
This kiss is not doing it for me at all.
No, in a minute, though, he's got his beautiful arms around her.
Oh, man.
Sorry, I'm going to stop going on about that, but he did.
I'm a bit hot and hot under the collar, you know, at 5 in the
morning.
Yeah, look brightly coloured, brightly coloured displays.
And look at this, right?
They're all, you talk to me about them, you know, people working
together competently to solve a problem.
This is this crew, all working together, all pulling in the same
direction.
We didn't get a lot of that in enterprise, you know. someone
behaving like an asshole.
Yeah.
So, so, on the on the display on the side of the room, you can see
the figure, like there's an anatomical diagram of what's happened
to Couri or something, you know, how she's been shot or whatever
but it's a man silhouette, it's like even in the future.
Men.
It's like there's men and then there's women who are just sort of
unlike men as far as medicine's concerned that still happens.
And...
May I say as this crew assemble around a lit up table with a
diagram on the wall?
We are heading ever closer towards the next generation. yeah Oh
can I say, right, I'm sorry.
I've said a bit about I quite like the CGI. like the scale of all
of this.
Now here we are, back down in Stockcave 7, 58.
Stockcave set number one.
Yep.
Straight away.
And all they've done is screwed a few rock, a few polystyrene
rocks about.
I mean, those sets look so cheap.
So that doctor, he's dead, obviously.
So the doctor from the 1st scene has been killed and buried in the
thing.
Look at all this, honestly.
Yeah, I think that looks pretty good.
Do you think I feel, I thought when we were, I mean, it's 20 years
in the future.
We went off to a prison, didn't we, on a planet in Discovery
fairly recently.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. which looked incredible.
Yeah.
No, this is sort of boring.
And I think that the moon surface looks particularly kind of a
texture over a sort of softly undulating surface, like there's no
real weight to it.
But there was some detail of the buildings and stuff in that shot
which I thought looked...
Maybe just like an establishing CGI shot of the scale of it, but
it just feels very contained.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And of course, like, this is bizarre as well, sending, sending
trip into par.
I know it's their baby.
They've got such a personal involvement in this.
But there's only 7 people in the cast.
I mean, it has to be them, doesn't it?
Well, maybe send the security officer like this is a clandestine
vision.
Well, he's done his thing.
He went and met that guy in front of a cardboard cityscape.
Oh, I love this.
They literally just go around the corner to have their like sly
conversation.
It's still an earshot of everybody though.
Yeah.
I think there's a there's a relaxed feeling between this pair, like
Conor Trinier and Jolene...
Thank you.
She certainly softened her performance in series one.
Yeah.
Yeah, I actually, I actually quite, I actually quite like it too.
And I did enjoy that.
I do think that they're that the 2 of them are pretty great and
he's wonderful.
I just think he's terrific.
Well, they managed to do in series 3 is something they
spectacularly failed to do in series one and two, and that is to
add an element of sex to the show that was actually a little bit
sexy.
Yeah, yeah. vomit inducing, like, um, rubbing shampoo into the
dog.
That was a different joke.
I don't know.
People who didn't understand that that was a joke.
Yeah, he's a bit built.
Why are you looking at me right now?
Honestly, I'm not looking at you.
I'm looking, Travis.
Yeah, see, like he's an attractive young man.
He could have been on the screen a bit more.
I mean, I do think it was a bit obvious that she was up to no
good.
This this rando coming onto the ship.
Yeah, but she's not up to no good.
Isn't there another twist?
The other twist is actually she really does work for Starfleet
intelligence.
Oh, is there?
I must have completely chipped out and that was revealed.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, that's the that's the other twist.
The very obvious twist is that she's an evil journalist who is
perhaps a spy for Tara Prime, but then it turns out she's with
Starfleet intelligence.
So I don't know, do we assume that they go off and make pretty
children, probably.
Well, no.
No, but we know that he's, he must be in the, in the final
episode.
So as usual, everyone has no career mobility on this show, or on
any Star Trek show, except maybe Discovery, where people join the
crew and leave the crew and stuff like that.
So they've all been on board Enterprise for 10 years, haven't
they?
Yeah.
Oh, certainly come, come, these are the voyages they have, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's what I mean.
The weird thing is right.
I know we spend 3 more seasons with TNG, DS9 and the Voyager crew
yeah, but if you pointed out, if you just mentioned any one of the
regulars, yeah.
I could tell you 10 facts and a handful of episodes where they're
highlighted.
Yeah, that was sending them. can't tell you anything about these
people.
No, I mean, there are some calls callbacks, aren't there?
Remember, you know, like I got far enough into Enterprise series
one to remember that Hoshi was very nervous about travelling.
Um, you know, uh, um, I believe that's the 1st episode.
Well, yes, yeah, but there's a whole episode about that, isn't
there?
with her little pet slug, yeah.
Yeah. and they do a callback to that, you know, yeah, he's the
other racist black guy.
So, but they know he's not Turner.
They know he's trip.
He's, he's, come on, the soccer, don't they?
Because he's exposed during the speech.
And I thought that was quite a good moment of media.
Because I thought immediately, oh, really?
buying this and then, no, they didn't buy it at all.
They know exactly who he is.
Yeah.
Yeah, no, he's super racist.
He's like one of these horrible people.
You know, who just assumed that everyone they talk to is going to
agree with them.
You know, like someone you just meet and who then says something
devastatingly racist and then you think, what made you think that
I would want to hear that?
You know, that dreadful dialogue he had there about, you know, oh
we're going to become 2nd class citizens on our own world.
I have actually heard people in England.
Oh, no, of course. say that about...
It's just a bowling, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Now, I was on a train and this sort of glamorous French lady was
sat opposite me wearing furs and we were talking for a bit and
stuff and she was just glamorous and fabulous and was telling me
all about her life.
And then we were about to get off in Lyon or something and she
warned me about the black people.
Just went, oh, no, we were having such a nice conversation. have
to turn out to be so awful.
It's when it's people like that you work with that you see all the
time. you have no idea until you get onto that.
So you have this sort of sort of basic relationship with these
people.
And then suddenly they'll say something like that it's incredibly
racist and you're like, oh, I've got you all wrong the whole time
you know?
Oh, yuck.
So here, here, um, here they're complaining that Bazindi never
apologised for nuking Florida.
I did quite like that. like the callback.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, that was quite a big thing that happened, you know.
And so, and the fact that that terrorist act is basically the
impetus for Terra Prime to come into exist.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, although we've always been kind of like this, I guess.
And but yes, so that that is a thing.
And, um, I think I was actually a bit moved by, um, by Tapol's
decision to call the baby Elizabeth, too.
I thought that was really, you know, that was quite a nice
callback.
And particularly since, you know, series 3, um, trip spends a lot
of time just being a proud arsehole because he can just be as
horrible as he wants because he suffered this loss, you know, so
he can, you know, agree to behave in whatever way he likes because
he's been, you know, bereaved.
And that it became an awful thing, you know, like it became a
thing to make trip awful.
And particularly when Tripp had been like super nice and
understanding and, you know, interesting.
Yeah, he was wonderful in coach.
He was the only person on the ship who wasn't just a massive
fucking asshole.
It is really annoying though, because they really go to great
lengths to make that relationship horror book.
Well, no, no, no.
But in season four, to make the relationship between to Pol and
Tripp work.
And to really soften that character and you really like him.
And then the fucking stab you in the back in the last episode to
just arbitrarily killing him off. to try and drive some emotion
out of that horrendous episode.
So I think that there are comic books or tie-in media or something
where it turns out his death was faked and he's gone off
undercover to hunt Romulans.
Oh, please.
Which is.
And everyone's reaction for 4 years of these characters.
It's so muted and so undramatic.
And I was like, what was the point?
I remember Brian Braggerstage. remember in Voyager that, he felt
that in order for the finale to work, someone had to be
sacrificed.
And I think this actually shows how that might not be a good
idea.
No, I think it's a dumb idea and it's a bad instinct on his part.
Like, I think that someone had to be sacrifice because they cheat
their way out of it, but they also cheat their way out of the
sacrifice by making it, by having a spare Janeway, you know, but
like it, she sacrifices herself.
If you're going to do it, do it like, I don't know, Damar and what
you leave behind, where you almost drives home is revolution, or
make it Weyune, where that's just a satisfying payoff to his
character, or, you know, Louise Fletcher going off in a in a hail
of flames, screaming her head off, because we all wanted to see
that for 7 years.
I was a bit sad that Peter Weller actually made it to the end of
episode 2 alive.
He doesn't get sort of sucked out the airlock or the window or
whatever when it breaks.
And, you know, like, I guess it's probably the right thing to put
him in prison or whatever.
But, but, and again, you don't want to martyr him either, you know
like he's just not exciting enough.
He's not, he's not even Soren, you know, like he's, he's just an
asshole.
Like, obviously, I think everything he's saying here is appalling
but I think it is just convincing enough that you are of the right
leaning that you would go along with.
Well, slightly exaggerated.
And, you know, it's funny, but in 2000, you know, this is pre the
return of Nazis, you know, like the rise of fascism in, you know
Brazil and America and and, you know, Italy and all of these
places that have these sort of crazed ridiculous right wing
governments.
And this sort of thing being normalised on social media and
stuff.
You know, this is, this is before then.
So, of course, there are people who are going to buy this shit.
And so I think it's a good villain because it is plausible.
Glint in his eye.
There's no smile.
He says everything so functionally and so as if this is just a
natural way to think, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah, no, like this.
Did you like this PGI?
Oh, look, he just smiled.
Oh, yes.
Here we go.
Yeah, look, see, that's recently detailed, isn't it?
It looks like a stupid fucking jellyfish or something.
It is like it's boxes of things.
I guess that's what they're going.
But I did like this.
The whole mining facility.
That's quite a fun idea. takes off.
And then where it lands and shooting at the moon and I thought
okay, they're trying to, trying to give this a bit of scale in the
solar system here.
Yeah, and also it's not like a starship.
So the whole thing is just shaking because they're in motion
because they're a, you know, a base, not a ship taking off.
Oh, I don't know about the flames.
The biggest problem though, you know, is I never quite thought
well, this is never going to succeed.
Not because I know that.
I just was never convinced by the threat, I don't think.
Well, I think part of the problem too is that you don't have any
people, you know, like we just have people telling us what's
happening about people leaving.
We don't really see anything.
We don't see any riots.
We don't see any protests.
We're told, remember, by the Andorians, that there are people
having these mass demonstrations outside their embassy or
something.
You know, like there's all of this stuff that we get told about
but we don't get to see it because we can't afford it.
And whilst there are sort of franchise steaks. involved here, i.e
if this fails, we won't have the federation and we won't have TOS
and blah, blah, blah.
There's no character stakes for this, was it?
Beyond the baby, which is a very artificial character state
because where's that baby come from?
We're not going to keep that baby around and it's very
manipulative at the end where they murder it off.
So like, yeah, there's no, like, the thing that DS9 always got
right.
And the thing that Voyager TNG often got right was it did, uh, the
episodes were character late. was there?
I don't think there's much of that going on here.
No, so there's no, so even the instinct to have trips sister
killed in the Zindi attack makes, like brings it home and makes it
immediately important to one of our characters, right?
Um, And here, you're right.
I think the, you asked the question before, why is the baby
there?
And I think the baby is there so that this matters to trip and to
polls so that they have some stake and it's outcome?
And I did think that the death of the baby while inevitable was a
bit of a cheat.
Okay, they knew they were heading here.
Like I said, they ceded this two-parter throughout the season.
If they knew they were headed here.
Why didn't they have a child at the beginning of the season?
And then the child was taken off them and this plot occurred at
the end?
Oh, because I don't think that that wouldn't at least have had
some real stakes, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rather than just someone's found some of their used hankies and
have made a baby out of the DNA or whatever.
Like, fair enough, but I don't think the show could have survived
them having an actual baby that was kidnapped.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, why would you do anything else?
I'll just go off and explore Rygel 10 and maybe someone will tell
me what happened to the baby.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, no, that's just not going to happen.
You can't do that.
Oh, here we go now. heading down to where are we going?
I think we're going to Mars, aren't we?
I think horses all looks quite nice, you know?
Again, it is that sort of washed out CGI, unfortunately, but yeah
yeah.
Like, I think I feel like in Kurtzman trick, they're really good
they use lots of vivid colours, don't they?
sort of make it artistic.
This looks pretty good.
I do think this looks pretty good and I think that Verderon array
thing with the big basket on the end of it looks pretty great.
I like the way that the legs come down and it lands, you know, a
bit like Voyager on a planet.
Yeah.
Oh, that's a bit shit actually.
Well, because she looks like an enormous toilet bowl.
It looks like an enormous toilet bowl on a planet.
No, I meant that, the thing lands.
There's no real weight to it.
Oh, I like the arms. also a cartoon.
Like all of this.
That's a problem.
It just looks like a.
It is a cartoon note.
Yeah, no, but it looks like a cartoon.
It's like Babylon 5, which I've never heard of.
It's just I'll have to educate you about that one day.
Life's too long.
We've watched DS9, right?
Yeah, yeah, basically.
But even now, when he delivers his speech about, you know, you
either get rid of all the aliens or, you know, we're going to
attack, you can use this array.
San Francisco.
I've just said it went way brawls in San Francisco.
But I've just said that speech with way more passion than he does
because he's just like, oh, well, you know, this is going to
happen.
So just do it, all right?
No, it's great.
It's like a giant villain speech that he completely throws away
because he rightly decides that he just has to seem pathetic
rather than charismatic and he does.
Are we drilling a hole in the moon?
Yeah, I thought, I could, I thought for a 2nd there.
I can't remember.
It was quite a big hole.
Blowing up in this?
Yeah, that's right.
The moon's there in the future, isn't it?
I thought it was an egg.
Oh, dear.
Yeah.
This is a big cliffhanger, is it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
We've had like across 90s track.
We've had way more impressive cliffhangers than this.
Yeah.
You know, this is how we're going out.
Maybe it should have been the ultimate cliffhanger, you know?
But, you know, like to discover that this is what Earth is like
that there is a significant kind of fascist minority who are going
to prevent us from being involved in the wider world.
You know, like, I think that's a very real thing.
I mean, it's you just had Brexit, for God's sake.
Like it's a very, very real thing.
You had a job, didn't you?
Yeah, well, yeah. you know.
I thought that was quite enjoyable, you know?
Yeah, I think that is pretty, that's pretty reasonable, I think
you know, and I do think the stakes are great and I do like the
fact that we are in the solar system and that we're spending our
time on earth and worrying about what's happening on earth.
And I think maybe enterprise is the show that could have done that
all along that could have used Earth as a base and told an ongoing
story.
It's clear that that's what they wanted to do originally and what
allowed to do.
So, or they just go, oh, well, we'll go off and tell Star Trek
stories or whatever, but they could have been talking about Earth
all along rather than just leaving it to Manny in series 4 to sort
of seed the seeds and then finally do it at the end.
You know, we could have been heading in this direction. all along
I think.
All right, what do you reckon?
Should we go into the 2nd one?
Yes, into the finale of enterprise.
Finale Enterprise, the penultimate episode.
All right, so queue up Terra Prime, and I'll count it in.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.
We are off.
Here we go.
Previously on Enterprise.
Yeah.
Yeah, you see, I think I'm right about those buildings.
They look just like horribly concrete and dull, the CG buildings
and then, you know, the service.
Come to a CGI landscape. and it looks exactly as gray and dull.
The baby CGIE is that just about move at the same rate as the
baby's head does, which is quite good, but not completely there.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I don't understand.
So all right.
So she's never been pregnant, right?
And so she doesn't know where the baby comes from.
But last episode, I think Tripp was suspicious of her and thought
didn't really understand that, you know, that she, like, didn't
believe her or something, like she has to tell him?
No, he actually says that.
He goes to Flocks, doesn't he?
And say, oh, I don't know, she's telling me the truth or not, you
know.
Yeah, yeah, but it's like you work together.
You see it, like if you...
Are you in a relationship?
Do you share a bed?
Maybe she was just she was just wearing a big floaty coat with
like tools in it.
There was a handy console to hide behind.
That's right for a few months before she gave birth.
Now, look, I think that sort of montage of clips at the beginning
of that.
You know, it gives a fair idea of what's happening in series one.
Had you left the series at some point in series one because it was
just so tedious to keep watching and then came back just for the
end just to see what's been going on in the meantime?
I don't know if you'd be that enticed, you know, like you'd be
like, okay, this is better, but it's...
It's still a bit mundane, just a bit.
Yeah, I mean, it's earth.
I think that bigs the stakes up in a way that that's what I liked
about this.
It wasn't just a space thing that was happening.
There was sort of, like, sort of limp and rudimentary politics
involved, you know, but it was about Earth, and it was about our
crew and it was about the future and all of that, you know, and
what humanity is.
Like it's got some sort of ambition beyond just this week's space
problem.
And I guess that's what I liked.
And I thought that that gave it the sort of scale that the movies
have, you know, like because we're at the end, We can change the
status quo and enterprise, like Deep Space 9, because they've
reinvented themselves, do have episodes that change the status quo
in interesting ways.
They're certainly not going to change the status quo with the
franchise, though, are they?
No, no, no, no.
Last goals.
No, no, no.
And here it is just very much, oh, just give us a bit more time
and the racists will get over it within 5 years and then we'll
found the Federation after that, if that's okay.
You know, like, it's not that great. conclusion.
I can buy it, though, because they're suggesting that this Terra
Prime is a fairly sizeable operation.
And so what?
Just because they're defeated at the end of this, all that racism
just goes away.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
In 5 years.
Not entirely sure that's how psychology works, you know?
A plot, a plot convenience and everyone suddenly drops their
xenophobia.
No, I'll have to do it.
Oh, the baby is cute though.
The baby is really cute.
And it's sort of bizarre, isn't it?
Because this guy is such a fucking nutcase that he just thinks
we're all going to be super threatened by this baby with slightly
weird ears, you know, like, like, and everyone's sort of there in
horror thinking, what is wrong with this guy?
And, you know, like you've got a room full of blue people and
people with things grafted into their heads and stuff and they're
kind of going, well, what is, wants this planner?
You know, you and I, in sort of nearly 60 episodes of on top, it's
not a project.
Now, we suffered through, you know, a lot of tortured backstory of
these 90 Star Trek characters.
What's his again?
There is a story there, isn't there?
As to why he's so terribly racist.
No, I just think he's an asshole, isn't he?
he was on Mars or something?
I can't remember, actually.
Does he have a backstory?
Maybe because like, you know, I would never stop going on about
that.
Fabulous woman from the Serene Squall, taking Mickey out of the
backstories.
But because her backstory was so over the top and the fact that's
right.
We forget about it is because it's a bit dull, you know?
Yeah, I think that might be it.
Oh, look, he's got a logo.
It's a very shitty graphic designers on staff.
They've had meetings about meetings about just finding that logo.
Yeah, that's right.
Oh, hang on a minute.
Now, look, we're about to head out at 90s treking, and we've got a
few explosions that are carrying on the bridge.
Any rocks?
No, no rocks, but we did have the verder on array, like hit them
which was kind of exciting.
Would you look at that wall there?
That dreary arse wall with the stars on it. you see it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I reckon the production, like that's some set dressing that
they've done to this incredibly cheap hotel conference room that
they're all meeting in.
Oh, I've been to some Doctor Who conventions where they made more
of an effort than that, you know?
Yeah, it does look like the location for a Doctor Who convention
actually.
Like that's the room where everyone set up the tables to get
signed photographs of Sarah Sutton or something. absolutely
obsessed about those Andorian appendages.
What did they do?
The antennae.
They're antennae.
Well, they...
No, they detect something that they probably smell...
I'd love what that was like.
Insects do with their antennas?
When they're turned on, they just wiggle a bit more or something
like that.
It probably happens.
He's probably got the hots for Harry Groner there, that guy.
There was that young fella, that Vulcan man, isn't it?
been in it right from the 1st episode.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think that's a good callback too, because he gets to see Archer
being not an asshole. you know, like being a citizen of the
galaxy.
I think that's a good kind of...
I mean, being a non-veteran of enterprise, as you are.
He actually does appear, I think, in a good sort of 1020 episodes
throughout the run and develops quite a relationship with Captain
Archer over time.
Okay, yeah.
Because it's adversarial at the beginning, isn't it?
Because they're...
That's one of the my big turnoffs.
Well, I think they repair the Falcons, don't they?
Like they try and tell the story of how they came from being sort
of obnoxious.
Yeah, they're doing it. your word peril, aren't they?
Yeah, you could have attacked all the domed cities and all that.
Yes, on Mars.
We don't even see a domed city on Mars.
We see, we see um, that little Carl Sagan monument to the 1st
tractor on Mars or whatever, um, which I think is a cute
callback.
You just missed the one line of dialogue there where they said the
array could even reach Meridian free.
Yeah, that's right.
My God.
Poor farmers or whatever the fuck they were.
All 230000000 of them.
Oh, no.
See, this is where he talks about how they actually made the
boat.
Like, we don't care.
Don't explain it.
Yeah, they just got one of Tripp's socks from under his bed and I
don't know how they got...
How did they get her eggs?
I don't really know.
But maybe they just, they caused biosis down.
I don't believe you just said that.
Oh, Jesus.
Oh, I don't know.
I don't know how you do this.
Oh, sorry, I thought you were calling the soccer wank rack.
Yeah, I know that's what I was doing.
Oh, well, yeah, you were.
No, you got it, my subtle joke.
Wow, dear, dear.
Right now.
There's a bit of sort of running around now, you know, there's a
bit of hanging around before that.
So here's the real city and now he's our fake city as well.
They have one meeting place.
Like, they can't meet at a bar.
Like what are they doing?
No, no, what is it with this?
And X-Miles isn't immune to this.
Whenever you go meet somewhere for a clandestine meeting.
There's a lot of smoke.
There's a lot of dry ice pumping in, you know, it's the most
disturbingly menacing looking place imaginable. street meeting
meeting deep throat in the car park.
You know, the Nixon investigation.
Is that what that is?
It would seem, it would be less obvious. they just met in a cafe?
Not a conversation, right?
Anyone sees them, it's like, you know, this guy's in black leather
and this other guy's looking a bit sketchy.
Well, they could be thinking something else is going on.
They could be, actually.
Yeah.
Actually, that would be funny, wouldn't it?
Imagine a posh accent.
You just have to throw him against the wall and snog him.
Although may I say that Malcolm Reed has not become any more
interesting.
And this is all he gets to do, isn't it?
He gets these 2 scenes with Harris, and it's basically
exposition.
Like Harris gives him some much needed exposition.
I don't know how much of series 3 that you explored, but those
sequences where the, well, they called Macos, the military men
come on board, and then Malcolm Reid's truly jealous of the Maco
leader.
And then they have a whole episode where they're beating the shit
out of each other, like in practice.
Oh God, it's just a appallingly macho characterisation.
It's terrible.
Stephen Culp, though, he's a guy, isn't he?
Like he's a that guy.
He's seen everything, that head Maco guy.
Yeah, like they put soldiers on the Enterprise on Enterprise.
It's crappy.
Very live series free.
Yeah.
Dear idea.
I like the, I just like that they're a bit bolder with it, you
know, they're...
Yeah, yeah, but there's bold and there's bold.
I just don't think that's a, you know, like they, like just having
them do terrible things and then not get punished for it.
I think what's the point of that?
What are we doing?
Well, I think then your reaction for this goes to show that you're
far more intuitive, more money, Koto's doing with the show.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, well, like I said, what's at stake is the very ethics, you
know, it's like the series one finale of discovery, which is all
about, do we decide to do the bad thing, or do we adhere to our
ideals?
Now she's put a beanie on the baby so that we don't have to do its
ears in post-production.
But remember that Spock wears the beanie and I don't even know
which episode it is.
So he goes down to it.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
That's the biggie, isn't it?
So your major friend, though, isn't that one?
Is it?
Is it, maybe it is.
Maybe it is.
There's a fabulous sequence in a minute, though, where to poll is
left with the baby, and she tries to have a conversation with it.
She could have been more awkward.
Could she?
It's really good.
I think that's actually really good.
And there is like she's, I think she makes some good choices.
I like it.
I think it's it's pretty great.
Baby.
Baby's not going to do anything.
Chill the fuck out, dude.
It's shitting itself as you speak.
Like, come on. you represents so much.
It's what the baby represents.
That's right. misogynation.
Yeah.
It's always bad news, you know, when you start talking about
having babies on Star Trek.
Yeah.
Dax died 10 minutes later, didn't she?
Yeah, that's right.
And their babies would have been so beautiful.
I just think I know.
Excuse me.
You mock that, but that's the sort of melodrama we could do in
this show, right?
No, no, no. mocking it, but only because it's really super great.
Well, I mean, they kill Lalov, don't they?
Like they give Data a baby and then they have that really kind of
it is a somewhat meretricious, but nevertheless, completely
effective scene where, you know, the bad admiral guy comes out
crying or whatever because they haven't been able to save the baby
or something.
So they do that in Star Trek because it's just episodic.
But here it's their last regular episode.
You think they could have done something else.
We could have just kept it.
Just keep it.
I think I think that was a bit distasteful at the end of the
cage.
You know?
Yeah.
Yeah, it's cheap.
I think.
Well, it's the same cheapness as Trip Steph in the last one.
You know, yeah, yeah.
Trying to inject a moment of emotion that feels entirely
manufactured.
The only thing that I really liked was them saying that was Flock
saying that it turns out that human and Vulcan DNA aren't
compatible and that you aren't able to have a hybrid.
And I think that's so great because the one thing that everyone
like literally everyone, people who haven't seen Star Trek, if you
know one thing about Vulcans, is you know that Spock is half human
half Falcon.
And I think that's really good.
And I remember kind of thinking, wow, okay.
And then I, you know, like you work at, obviously, that it was a
cloning process and stuff like that was there.
The obvious way they were going to get out of it and I wasn't
surprised by that.
But, um, Oh my God, imagine they'd have dropped that, you know.
The baby was Spock, all of them.
That's not human.
Oh, no, it's what he is.
No, we love his parent.
I love his mother.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, that's another thing as well. actually, do you know what?
We meet a lot of family of all the other crew members of 90s
trek.
I don't remember it.
Anyone's family in maybe Flux's wife.
That's about it.
Yeah, Fox's wife.
We obviously, um, Tripp's sister gets killed.
You know, do you remember Wolf's fabulous parents and...
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's great.
Dr. Maura.
What, um, oh, yeah, he's good too.
He said that guy.
Travis does have an episode where he meets his family or something
does he or not?
There is an episode where he meets boomers or whatever the hell
they are.
Oh, yeah, no, no.
Is his family...
No, no, it's somebody he used to know, but something he used to
work with.
But yeah, I don't know.
I feel like they, like you said, they're trying to do a departure
from the norm.
Unfortunately, the norm works.
So what they're departing from, I don't know.
Do you know, I love this scene and it's trip.
It's so good.
And it's that sort of thing, like he's talking about how he didn't
like Vulcans.
He didn't bring up Strange New World where he was just a massive
fucking race.
I was going to say that. you remember that when he went there?
It was awful.
Just drinking. hurt her or something like that?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it was really unpleasant.
And, and then this, like, this guy whose name I said last time
he's Daniel, Daniel, he, like, he's like an evil fascist and
stuff.
And, and this is so good.
Like, there's there's a moment where you think, oh, he's going to
punch him.
He's going to punch him in the face, but he's going to be
prevented. but he isn't.
Like they just let him punch the fascist in the face in the show.
Like, it's so good.
It was one of my favourite moments in the episode.
Yeah, that's right.
Calls it a half human thing.
The baby's a half human thing.
And it looks like he's going to be, he's going to back down.
He's not going to, see, he turns away.
He looks like he's going to back down, then he goes, no, fuck it
punching the guy in the face.
It's awesome Maybe the journey we've gone on with these characters
and it's not to get them, no, get to know them better, is to, for
them to drop their, because they are the regular cast of
enterprise in series one.
There is a heavy level of racism. inherent in their characters and
come series four.
That's kind of fallen away.
They've seen the universe.
They've seen what it's got to offer.
They gotten to know Tapal.
They've made, you know, connections with Vulcans and Andorians and
all of this.
And the last episode.
You know what?
The move me most, and these are the voyages, it was the moment
where just before he gives his speech, Archer goes up to Nepal, and
he gives her a hug, and she holds it really tight.
And when you think where they started in episode one, that is
unfinkable.
Yeah, cereal.
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
Yeah, and I get, I get, I guess Flocks gets to do that in this
episode.
Like, I don't know what he does in these are the voyages, but he
does get to say, no, this is fine.
I love this too.
Like Flux is handing him a bath bag.
I like it.
Just a reminder.
He has the funniest character.
He hands it back to him in the next seed.
Like, we've cut away for another scene with sort of tedious Peter
Weller being a brick.
And then I think he hands it back, doesn't he, in the next scene?
Yeah, we could have done it with a bit more flock here, couldn't
we, in this?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So what do you think this keyboard does behind his hand?
This guy's like, EE, B, B, 13?
I don't think that's a real...
No, I know.
Yeah, I think they're just decorative.
Yes.
This old-fashioned push buttons, though, you know, not those.
Yes.
Oh, I agree.
I agree.
And clearly they wanted that.
They do that with the Delta Flyer, even though it makes no sense
because they're sort of more physical.
And because the touchscreens are boring.
And I think, um, like they were the best thing ever when I was
watching this when it was 1st on, the touchscreens, but now we all
have them in our pockets all the time, you know.
There's so much word peril in this episode.
There's so much talk about what could happen.
Yes, yeah.
Get on with it already.
I mean, it's the same thing with the protests.
Remembering Strangely Worlds, the pilot where there are protests
and we see them, but we see them, you know, like somehow.
Like they, like, they managed to give it scale without having like
a movie budget, they managed to give it scale, but they don't
manage to.
Somehow TV has changed in 20 years.
And here it was Tell Don't Show.
Now there's enough money usually to show without having to tell.
Oh, here we go.
Who's that same word to po on the baby?
It's so adorable, isn't it?
Like, she just doesn't have to talk to your father about this.
I thought that was beautiful.
I actually thought that that wasn't that wasn't going for a gag.
It was like, we should talk about giving you some kind of name.
I guess I should talk to your father and I thought that was
actually quite sweet.
And it is like, you know, Vulcan's, yeah, look, he's vomited.
He's handing the full bag back to flocks there.
He's zipped the bag up.
No, no, he just vomited during the thing.
Does the Martian ice cap look like that?
don't know I don't know, but there was a nicer.
I think sure.
A minute there goes.
They head towards that rock and all the sort of fragments were
coming towards the camera.
That was quite long.
Oh, yeah, that was okay.
But basically that comet looks incredibly shit.
Like the bit where they're going.
Yeah, exactly.
Just shockingly bad.
Yeah, there we go.
Wee, look at those rocks.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. that's not too bad.
There's a big rock.
What is happening here?
That's just bullshit.
Come on.
Oh, no.
Look, just to show, we're still in Nighty Street, they're wobbling
about the set.
Yes, yeah, yeah, really badly too, aren't they?
They're doing a really shit job of it.
Well, they've only had 4 years' work. when we saw the last time.
They had an extra free seasons practice.
Why are they making the shuttle pod go round and round?
Because they can. such a bad idea.
Oh, no, look at this sort of dust bowl eruption here.
That's a bit...
This is so good.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, dear, dear, it's bad, isn't it?
Yeah.
And things like things like smoke and stuff took a while before we
could get them right.
So that's a little bit sort of primitive CG because they couldn't
do smoke very well.
Look, I don't want to shit on this too much, but like they kind of
land, take over, get the baby back.
That's the end.
It's a bit simple, isn't it, the resolution?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it's usually that though, isn't it?
There's a bit of peril at the end.
I mean, you've got the window blowing out and you do have a
confrontation between Archer and the villain, which I think you
want, you know, and then he beats.
That's still incredibly uncharismatic characters facing off.
But then he gets to defeat the villain and then he gets to go and
give his speech about what the correct principles are.
The payoff to the episode is that bit at the end, isn't it?
Where you can see the formation, the slow formation of the
Federation.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's funny.
There must have been a better way of doing the finale and showing
that like they've got this thing where because they haven't worked
towards it, they suddenly just have to kind of make it so that in
the last 3 episodes of the show, these people have an important
role in history.
Do you know what I mean?
where like, you know, I don't know.
Like they sort of manage it, but it does seem like it's cheating a
bit, I think.
A Cole Sagan Memorial Station.
Yeah, so it's the, see, there's a tractor that we landed a tractor
on Mars, like curiosity or whatever.
I don't know exactly what thing it is, but yes, that's pretty
great.
And this is nice because this is, again, using Merriweather or
Mayweather's skills here.
Yes, obviously, I don't think he's ever had a better couple of
episodes.
No.
Well, I don't know.
Maybe he's in every other episode of City...
Oh, he went up to Manico.
I've been with this show 4 years.
I've done nothing Give me some lines.
Please let me do something.
And isn't isn't Hoshi up on the show?
That is.
Look how bad that is.
Like you can see...
Mandalorian. are you talking about?
No, no, you can see where the painting of the rocks.
Like you can see where the sky meets the land.
I mean, the where the corner of the studio is. lighting's
reasonable.
Look, I'm they're trying.
And like I appreciate my...
I do appreciate Mars because I just think that's super
interesting.
You know what they could have done?
They could have done, you know, right back to TNG series one and
just had some terrible old studio with a lighted backdrop.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, look, I think it's it is an attempt and we have come
somewhere in the last 18 years, I guess. if this is where we
reach.
You know, it does.
So very weird with 90s trek is in some episodes, they really learn
how to make those planetary in studio or not really effective.
And then at other times, they just completely forget how to do
it.
I think, you know, like I think some of the computer stuff in late
Voyager is more successful than what they're doing here.
And I don't know whether it's because they're more ambitious here
but, you know, like the moonscape and the Marscape and all of that
sort of thing.
Like, I thought those things tended to look better on Voyager late
in its run.
In the beginning of workforce. a sequence where we go across a CGI
sort of factory landscape and then the camera lands on people
coming down from the stairs and that's a practical shop that's
been inlaid in.
And it's seamless.
Yeah, I reckon, you know, like timeless when they find the Voyager
frozen under a glacier or whatever.
Like, I think that looks amazing.
I do think that these look rough.
Um, I mean, there's one shot.
Do you remember rocks and shoals when they're coming out of the
water on that desert landscape and then they superimpose the
Gemini ship going under the water behind.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's for this as well.
I think I don't know.
I guess it's the director and the resources at the time and...
Yeah, but I think it is just an over, like an overarching failure
to realise that your job is to put something weird and interesting
on screen.
And so we have had, I guess we had that action sequence just then
in shuttle pod 2 or whatever.
Uh, and otherwise we've just had establishing shots, haven't we?
Yeah.
Which is kind of what they're doing now.
Yeah, well, no, that, that's the fucking Verderon array painted on
the wall of the studio, you know.
Nathan, I loved Hoshi on the ship.
Yes, politician.
Fucking back down.
I'm in charge, you know?
Yeah, she's cool as a cucumber as well.
She's cool with this scene as she was picking that bat out of the
air and I can sit mate, you know?
That's great.
That's great in that.
I actually think I actually think she probably could have been
given a lot more to do, you know, though.
Yeah, I think so too.
Yeah.
Oh, who's that lady on the bridge looking giving dagger eyes to
Harry Grown-up?
He famous, you know.
Yeah, she's killing it, isn't she?
Whoa hoo.
You can't relieve me, you asshole.
Um, Look at, she's just standing there.
She's not grandstanding either and she's quite small.
She's just standing there quite relaxed with her arms crossed and
she's good.
Why can't they?
Does she get to do more?
sort of, that's the sort of scene that, sorry, I could constantly
bringing up the terrible acting of Gauge McFadden.
But it's a sort of thing, you know, games were fading would fudge
completely.
She just sort of look a bit confused and whereas what's Hoshi's
what's the actress's name?
Linda Park.
Yeah, she's.
Yeah.
She sells it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Here we go.
Look, they were just meeting in a corner.
Oh there you are.
Right, you're here.
Yep.
Oh, that was easy.
They just can't let go of some of these. like obviously TV's
coming on a bit, but they can't let go of some of these 90s trek.
Yeah, we see it.
I think that that is the problem.
I can't remember, but by now is this starting to look a bit
cheap?
Compared to everything else?
What's happening in 2003 or whatever?
But weirdly enough, you know, I think the last 2 or 3 episodes of
series 3 where the weapon is heading towards the earth and they're
doing massive, spectacular set pieces.
I'm going to say the word spectacular.
Yeah, when you eventually see them.
I'm sure you'll disagree with me.
Yeah, but maybe, yeah.
And it's because they just can't.
They've been, like I said, they've been churning out 600 odd
episodes for donkeys years, and they've got into a certain pattern
of doing things, and it took, it took something like those, those
bloody movies, orange, Chris Pine, to come in and really shake it
up and shake it up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's exactly it.
And I think that that's when it hits, isn't it?
And I think, you know, something like Discovery, they don't even
attempt.
You know, no one would do a show like Star Trek for 26 episodes a
year.
Like you would just never do that because you'd end up with
something that just didn't look very interesting.
And it would be able to press the randomiser on Kurtzman Trek more
often.
Well, but, I mean, Curse and Trek is basically doing nearly 50
episodes of Star Trek a year.
It's just that they're spread across different shows.
And so, you know, like this is they're creating more...
Different production teams as well.
So they've all got very different looks.
Oh, exactly.
Different castes, the whole thing.
Yeah.
I'm hoping it's coming for Doctor Who, you know, the same sort of
thing.
I am reasonably sure that it is. is my guess.
Oh no, it's tripping shot.
No, just fallen over.
Yeah, no, plasma grid.
Oh, no, it was an exploring control panel.
No, no.
Captain Archer.
You turn... he's got a humanity, isn't he?
He did get shot, didn't he?
I thought he was going to lie down.
See, you say they're having a confrontation, but one's hiding
behind a grid and the other one's behind a console.
So it's not really.
No, no, they come out and properly confront one another in a
minute.
And the window's cracking.
So, you know, the vacuum is about to...
But somehow they manage to not make it exciting or visceral.
It just looks like someone drawing lines across the screen.
Do you remember in the 2nd Jurassic Park movie where they're on
the window, on the rear windscreen of the bus, and it's cracking
and you hear it crack and you feel like there's a real reality to
it where this...
Yeah, that's right.
Just, you know, like...
Yeah, you also, you want some fantastic foley here, don't you?
That's really...
Well, it's just a tiny room, isn't it?
So...
Now Archie's having a lie down.
Oh, no, Nathan is like great.
I'm sorry.
It's confrontationally.
It's not.
No, no, no, it's not automatic.
Plus, like, these 2 they don't have any kind of a relationship
either.
So it's not like a Khan kirk sort of thing, is it?
No, that's right.
Yeah.
Yes, that's the thing that you have to do, isn't it?
I guess that's why Soren doesn't work because he's just some
asshole who wants to blow up people we don't care about.
Do you remember that?
I reckon.
That final confrontation between like Odo and the female
shapeshifter and what you leave behind, it means something because
they've got a relationship.
Or any scene between Major Kira and Dukat.
Oh, so that's right.
And you sort of think, 0 my god, that's actually quite good
because it looks like he doesn't manage to stop it, but we then
discover the trips already.
I like this effect shot of the beam going into the water.
It's just landing in the ocean to just kill some fucking whales
probably.
Oh, yeah. into all that trouble and now Paxton's killed all the
whales again.
Defeated him.
Can't we just say in the episode here instead of watching this
baby die?
I mean, yeah, I agree.
Yeah, I agree.
Oh, look, there was, oh, there's some proper acting there from
Tapol.
And we get some decent actual break.
John Billingsley now as well.
Yeah.
And gold, because otherwise I'd just be like, what is the point of
this?
Yeah, again, all of this sort of emotional hev they're giving to
this relationship between these two.
It adds more insult to that decision in that last episode.
I know I keep saying it, but...
No, it's actually my best character. such a bizarre choice.
Well, yeah, but I think they know it's the best character and
that's why they think it's going to land. yeah.
Yeah.
It's almost like they go, oh, well, he's dead.
I've got to go give a speech now for the formation of the
Federation.
And then, and then it's all, all just sort of distracting because
you've got Riker and Troy. in the background of every scene
reminding you that none of this is actually happening.
Yeah.
Well, it is happening.
It's on telly Any very bizarre.
And now I can't watch the Pegasus in the same way either.
So it's ruined that.
Oh, you're just imagined.
You're imagining Johnny and Marina disappearing into the very odd
because he's put on a lot of weight, you know, between scenes.
Well, I mean, it's 11, 12 years or something, isn't it?
Like Pegasus is series seven.
And Marina Service has suddenly become extremely relaxed within
our performance.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's it.
She's actually she's great in the last episode of Enterprise.
She's she's the best thing in it, aren't they?
I bet.
I mean, I think she's terrific when she's in Voyager as well. you
know, love her in Voyager.
I hope in series 3 of Picard.
She's full on like in that interview.
Yeah, gate seat.
Gate seat.
Cockney Marina, you know?
So wonderful.
I don't know what they'll do about the daughter, though.
Like she'll be off somewhere.
Yeah.
Or please make a reference to Mrs. Troy as well.
Come on.
She'd be dead by now.
Or was she on Beta Z when the Dominion destroyed it?
They just took over. didn't destroy it.
That was such a great thing. was a good choice.
The hell was this all about?
Oh, yeah, so this weird random plot.
So, so, we can confront that guy because there's someone on the
ship.
Is that why Gannet is on board?
Because they've got a...
Why not musical we're a greedy gannet, you know?
A greedy gobble gannet.
I'm doing an English accent then.
I think you were I was.
A greedy gobble get it.
Yeah, so what?
He was the real...
He was the villain for long, although I don't know what he was
doing.
Like, we didn't notice.
Was he in any scenes before this one?
No.
No, no, no.
He's apparently been doing bad things, but we don't know what they
are.
Then we have this massive emotional scene.
He's like...
This pretty boy.
Don't tell my parents I was a racist.
Oh, he's really neither of them are doing very good job, are
they?
Like, this is clearly his 1st role on telly because he's 12 and
he's having a bit of a cry and he's really trying to do some
proper acting.
Imagine, okay, imagine Enterprise, actually had like discovery
Denver, characters like that.
And it was a character like that that we established.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, oh, and...
Well, no, do you remember, do you remember in, um, in the hands of
the prophets when old, uh, O'Brien's assistant goes to assassinate
Barral.
Yeah, but they establish her in the previous episode or Ashley
Judd's character in the game. and she's in the previous episode.
Yeah.
You've learned these lessons, like...
But I just think that's unpleasant.
Like, and so Archer has to watch this kid shoot himself in the
head and then what it now is off in the next scene doing something
else.
It just doesn't, like, it's so weightless.
I think it's supposed to be like as visceral as that Battlestar
Galactica where D shot herself in the head.
But it's absolutely consequence free and bloodless in the usual
Star Trek way that I always complain about. is holding a sort of
big bulbous, police of plastic to his head that looks vaguely like
a gun, and then we cut away from anything and say, you know
nothing really bad happens.
But the reason why the D suicide is so effective is because we are
full of that character for 4 seasons.
Yeah, yeah, it's a big shock.
Gosh, unbelievable that scene, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, no.
Look, they do give them real focus on that terrible confidence
backdrop.
Oh yeah.
It's really bad, isn't it?
What is it?
It's like a comedy slander on something.
The polls close.
Why do they give them those terrible jumpsuits to wait?
I know it's velour.
Like it's a pink velour jumpsuit.
It's so much worse than what 7 wears, I think.
See, and I like I like the sentiment of this scene and what he's
saying and what it represents and that they are unified.
There was another danobulin.
Look, we're going to get the crotassin.
The Andorians antennae are wiggling excitedly.
They're good though.
I mean, they look so incredibly crap in original series Star
Trek.
It does sell them a little bit.
What was it you said that time about Dr. Flux's costumes made him
look like...
Oh, he just looks like a swinger, doesn't he?
Like he's, he's very, he's like a really hep kind of dude in the
60s, you know, in his... yeah, yeah.
Like I think...
You know, the the Vulcan guy there, you know, a terrible conflict
with Archer.
He's looking at him there admirably now with such respect.
Yeah.
Yeah, and that's...
We come a long way.
No, please, no.
This speech is really badly delivered.
It's so bad.
Like, you know, he's no, like, there are times when I just sort of
think that Patrick Stewart's slumming it, not bothering and taking
7 years off acting or whatever. you know, and just having a relax
you know, cashing in the paycheques.
But he would give this speech, you know, he would just absolutely
knock this speech out of part.
Oh, we would as well.
Yeah, she would nail it.
She would absolutely nail it.
Avery Bruce would be grinning to a point where you're weak at the
knees.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, this is the sentiment at the end too, isn't it, of the end
of Star Trek, the Next Generation, that, you know, we're going to
boldly go places, but the real adventure is getting to know each
other sort of thing.
And that connection thing that becomes the that big deal in
discovery as well.
Yeah, the final frontier begins. as terribly executed as it may
be.
I do appreciate them trying to bring this show to some kind of a
conclusion and an optimistic one of that.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I think so too.
I mean, it certainly would have been better had it ended in series
three.
It would have ended with that Nazi appearing out of nowhere.
But even, that would have been the end.
That would have been great.
Imagine that.
Oh, now what are we doing?
We're having dead baby conversation.
No, we're having the... the...
Yes.
And you should have backed up on that transport as well.
Yeah, some kids.
TV show set.
It does look bad, doesn't it?
It's terrible.
Oh, they learn some lessons in discovery.
They probably looked at 90s trek and said, right.
Whatever we're going to do, we're just not going to do that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So there was a hilarious thing that I read that said that the
original model, you know, you know, Enterprise NX 01 is completely
computer generated. like it's there's no model, but it was going
to be bronze, you know, like the starships are in discovery.
Um, and somehow it just turned out being a sort of terribly boring
um, you know, oh, it looks all right.
Looks like metal, I guess.
This is the last scene now, is there, between trip and power?
And it's very melancholic.
So I'm kind of glad they didn't end the series on this note.
No, it is an odd thing to do, but it does, what it does do
though.
These 2 characters were antagonistic when it 1st started, weren't
they?
Yes.
Yeah, definitely.
Well, Strangely World.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But, I mean, even before then, isn't there like her refusing to
shake his in or something like that?
There's a very awkward dinner scene in the 1st episode.
Yeah.
Yeah, so right from the beginning.
And so the show ends, like, you know, the last thing that we see
in the normal enterprise timeline, isn't it a close-up of them
holding hands?
Yeah.
And...
And I think that Conor Triner does a really good job of this.
I mean, he's, you know, he's covered in glycerine and stuff like
that.
Like, I'm not buying those tears, but I think he sells this really
well.
And he has to do it, of course, doesn't he?
He has to do all of that because she has to downplay it because
she's a Vulcan.
And, of course, the final scene is, yes, we can have a Spock in
future as well.
So that's another link, isn't it?
to the future that it is possible.
And we will try again.
That's the other thing.
Let's try again.
Let's, I think that's pretty good.
The sentiment is like optimistic.
But the tone is very downbeat.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, if they decide to kill a baby in the final episode, It's not
a good thing.
This is Conor Trenier.
No, they're realties.
He just found out they've been cancelled.
You know, he's out of work next week, you know?
might have known.
Apparently they were all appalled, weren't they, when that script
came in for the last episode.
Yeah, yeah. called it an insult.
Yeah.
Like you said, they should have been more worried about the last 4
years worth of scripts.
Oh, I don't really know what else to say about Demons and Terra
Prime, beyond the fact that it is a competent story, it uses
everybody pretty well, apart from flocks maybe.
It's reasonably well executed.
It's probably where Enterprise should have begun rather than
ended.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think, and it's about, it's about the values that underpin
Star Trek and, um, you know, presents a future where those need to
be fought for.
I think that's worth doing and a good place to end on, I guess
given that that's not what they would have had planned, I
suppose.
I suppose the sentiment I would like to end this on. is there's
nothing to be embarrassed by here.
No, well, mostly nothing in Star Trek.
But perhaps like the one bigger mission that we both said is it
isn't really silly or funny.
It's not much fun.
No, but still watchable.
All right, it's time for us to work out what we're going to watch
next, and Joe, it's your turn on the randomiser.
So tell us what we're choosing.
I've decided we've watched too many important episodes of Star
Trek lately.
We've watched The Visitor.
You know, we've watched In the Power Moonlight, we've watched all
good things, generations.
Yeah, this is technically the finale of Enterprise.
So I'm going to keep rolling till I get something truly middle of
the road.
Trivial.
Yes, nothing.
Meat and potatoes trick, you know?
All right.
Okay.
All right, go for it now.
Uh, okay.
Oh, no, this is really goody.
Actually, sorry, we're not having this.
Your random Star Trek Next Generation episode is 1st contact.
Season four, episode 15.
It is really good.
It's really fun.
Okay.
Uh, Your random Star Trek Nation Nation episode is future
imperfect.
No, that's too good as well.
I don't think that's that good.
That's all right.
That's that's middle, middle of the road.
That's meat and potatoes I think.
Are you mad?
Oh, okay.
I've already pressed that. so sorry.
Your random Star Trek original series episode is Operation
Annihilate.
Ooh, okay, I'm sure that's terrible, but I can't remember.
Right.
I have seen it.
Season one, episode 29.
Is that the finale?
No, no, they didn't have finale.
You can barely tell when one season begins or ends.
It's just another episode that comes along.
I think that might be a bit good actually.
I'm gonna press it one more time.
Oh, it's a Voyager episode.
Oh, yeah, this is perfect.
This is absolutely perfect.
All right.
A miserable season 3 episode of Star Wars, season three, episode
18, Darkling.
Oh, I can't even remember what that is.
Massively cab episode. where the doctor has like a Frankenstein
transformation and he's evil.
Kidnaps cares, takes her over a ravine.
That sounds great.
That sounds too good to watch.
All right. that's awesome Let's do that.
It's abysmally terrible but great fun.
Oh, let's do it.
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley.
We're online at Untitled Star Trek Project.com where you can find
links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was
composed by Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 10th of January 2023 and released
on the 13th of January.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Voyager, Darkly.
Okay, I'm talking, and that's working.
Say something.
Hello.
Hello, hello.
Okay, that's brilliant.
It's been a long road.
Getting from out of here.
It's a long time.
Now, my time is finally, it's finally here.
And I can see, what's the next bit?
See my dreams come alive at last.
I will touch the sky.
I can touch the sky.
And I'm not gonna...
I'm not gonna change my mind.
Because I've got things. of the heart. of the heart.
It so great.
I sing it.
I do.
I like absolutely sing it when it's on.
Nathan, you know that's got to be the tag now, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's the...
It had to happen at some point.
I've got...
That's a very oil lover.
It's just, it couldn't get any chooses.
It's so bad.
And they peep it up.
They do what they do in deep say sign, don't they?
They peep it up for series three.
They kind of go, actually, there's this needs to be even more
exciting.
So, so cheesy.
I did love the original music when they when they launched Space
Station Archer or whatever it was in Discovery.
Well, yeah, you can rip it now.
I mean, that's that's...
That thing.
At the end.
Even that's, even that's, that's an illeration.
I've I've watched 2 episodes of prodigy yesterday and like my eyes
start to prickle at the music.
I just think the music is so fucking great.
Like just astonishingly great for like a kid's cartoon.
It's so good.
And yeah, do you know what?
Jay Chataway.
This was his last score, the Star Trek. this episode.
Oh, the music was so dreary in this.
I was like, Jay, come on.
Did you see the, like, there's all this stuff on memory alpha, like
he, he, he created a drawing of the enterprise out of riffs from
the score that he'd written, like, and he, he gave copies to
everyone and stuff, like it was like this thing.
It looked like it's the, you know, the NX one shape but made out
of musical notation.
I think that, actually, no, I'm going to say this in the episode.
It's worth saying in the episode.
Okay.
Shall we do it?
No, wait, I don't know whether I've heard the demons.
This isn't demons.
This is Terra Prime.
Yeah, this is demons.
Episode 20.
Okay.
It's actually quite nice for ones to be, to have a, you know, and
yeah, it's actually quite nice because there are a lot of
positives in it, whilst I don't think it's...
It's a lot of bread.
Not bad.
It didn't, yeah.
Not as good as.
If it started here, yeah, yeah.
It's not as good as well.
There's a night in Sick Bay, but it is pretty good.
The most entertaining episode of Enterprise I've ever watched.
It's got a puppet dog.
Are you feeling are you sexually frustrated?
It's got it's got Archer.
Yeah, true.
Flocks catching a bat.
This doesn't have enough flocks in it.
It's too serious.
No, I, that was, that, I thought that was a bit of an amazing.
That's why.
That's why it's so boring because he's not enough.
Right.
Hey, Joe. Why?