Hey, Joe. Hi.
So, this week, we're watching an episode of Lower Decks, which we
haven't touched for a little while, and it is, what, series 2
episode something?
I don't even know, actually, series 2 though.
And it is called Mugato Gumato.
Do you know why?
I'm glad you've said that because I know the joke's on me when I
can't pronounce the title of this episode.
I think it's got something to do with the fact that in the
original series episode that these creatures appeared in. nobody
could pronounce the name of them properly.
Well, I think it was D. I think it was De Forrest Kelly, who
couldn't pronounce, who couldn't pronounce the name.
I think it was originally Gumato, and he kept saying Mugato, so
they just changed it and decided that's how it was pronounced.
But he also comes out with Mugatu as well at some point.
So he really, to say, I did watch that.
That's called a private little war.
That's from series 2.
It's really terrible.
It looks quite promising for a bit.
And of course, the Megato's, there's just one, and it appears at
the beginning and at the end, and it's just a guy in a white
gorilla suit with kind of horns and stuff like that.
So it's a pretty low effort.
Yeah, yeah, it's awesome.
And it bites...
This isn't like a, this isn't like a William Shatner's sort of
sabotage.
No, no, no, no, situation.
This isn't Shatna's fault.
This is just a stupid space name that De Forrest Kelly can't say
properly.
Couldn't pronounce.
And it's not that hard.
And so they hang a hat on that really quite early on.
I mean, I mean, it's not above Kurtzman tricks.
I look over their shoulder at the original series and see someone
mispronouncing somebody, saying, well, we'll do an entire episode
about that, should we?
Yeah, and I mean, it isn't quite that.
So it's what have we got?
We've got an A-plot, which is that Rutherford and Boemler think
that Mariner is a like a special Black Ops.
Yeah, Starfleet intelligence agent.
And then the B plot is Tandy has to do a job for Tana, which is to
go around and scan everyone who's reluctant to be scanned.
That reminded me so much of those old DS9 subplots in like series
2 and 3 that don't think about anything but are so kind of
amiable.
They're just they're not the best part of the episode sometimes.
That was wonderful.
It's a little bit unusual to kind of hive Tandy off onto her B
plot because often it's Boimler and Mariner and Tandy and
Rutherford who work really well together.
And so this is sort of kind of fun.
And it is very cartoony.
Like they're both really lied and they all happen in the context
of this, the Ferengia sort of cutting horns off the mugatos or
sometimes gumatos and then selling them to people and they have to
be persuaded to stop doing that.
And then there's another sort of alien plot as well.
Well, I had like a one overriding 4 as I was watching this.
And that is.
I wasn't sure how you were going to fall with this because I know
obviously, the last outpost for own gear are agonisingly
terrible.
So that they're in here.
And then you've also, and you've got a bit of an issue with, you
know, Starfleet, you know, secret ops, you know, section 31 style
of things.
And that's in era as well.
And I thought to myself, this is curse and cherry picking, all the
things Nathan don't like, and making them palatable.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, you know, the black ops thing ends up not being true
and they do mention a couple of incidents like Tuvok get to
mention being in Starfleet intelligence and pretending to be on
the ship and being somewhere else.
Wonderful moment where she just suddenly like the camera zooms in
on mariner's eyes, looking at sinister.
The lighting goes really harsh, and it reminds me of a scene in
season 5 of DS9, but sure, it was a changeling, is going up in a
turbo lift, looking all evil and sinister, and then steps out of
the turbo lift.
Oh, I've just brought you some sandwiches. you know, like.
No, I mean, we talked about this before.
I love how this show takes the cliches of Star Trek, you know, the
absurd cliches of Star Trek and spins it into something really
really fun.
And I do think they did this here.
I thought for lower decks.
This was a, it was fun and I enjoyed it, and I want to say that
straight away.
And I think there's no lower decks episode I'm not going to enjoy
just because I think it is, it's trying to be funny and it is
funny.
But this felt a little bit more middle of the road compared to
some of the ones we've watched before and a little bit more
relaxed.
Whereas the ones we've watched before would be like relentless
gags hitting you one after another until you submit.
Whereas this felt like a, this almost felt like a 90s Star Trek
episode, you know, it was quite nicely paced, some nice character
moments, an A, a BSC plot.
And it's mid-season.
So yeah, you know, they are going to do episodes that aren't
always, you know, big hitters.
It was really, really fun.
I just.
It wasn't as...
What am I trying to say?
It doesn't have a big idea the way that some of them do.
There's some of them that kind of edge their way into actually
being kind of like proper Star Trek episodes in that they have a
big idea and you think this would have worked in one of the other
shows.
And this one doesn't quite do that.
It is structured like a comedy cartoon, which is what it is.
And I think that lower decks does alternate between those modes.
And so even in the most recent season, which I don't think you've
seen any of.
There are some really, really weird high concept ones, like
mathematically perfect redemption, for instance, which is an
incredible episode about peanut hamper, the 1st exocomp to join
Starfleet.
And that's really, really strange and different from anything
you've ever seen.
And then there's just sort of, you know, run of the mill episodes
where there's an A plot and a B plot and everyone's being silly
and having fun.
I think, like, the 2 that we've done so far, one was the, you know
outrageous sex comedy where everyone was fucking, and they just
threw every gag you can about the naked now, the naked time and
all of that.
And the other one we did was the one where Boyman had a girlfriend
and they were going through every single Star Trek cliche.
So those episodes were like furiously funny.
This felt gently mocking.
Which is also quite nice.
Yeah, that's right.
I hadn't really realised that connection, but the Cupid's errant
arrow is the one that just burns through all of those different
plots. absolutely inspired.
And then so does the other one whose name I can't remember, but
the other one where the person comes on board and sets up those
little holodecks and everyone is sort of replaying plots and
things from previous episodes.
So they're very, very centred on making fun of a huge amount of
Star Trek.
Whereas this is a little bit more business as usual.
And so, you know, all the Star Trek elements are mocked, but there
aren't quite as many of them perhaps.
And some of the humour was a little bit overt times as well. like
Monach gets, you know, oh, you're the last outpost for Engi.
Have you never heard of cork?
And I'm like, yeah, it's funny, but that's very blatant.
You might as well just look straight out of the camera at the
audience, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The sort of the conclusion I'm going to with Lower Decks is, is
obviously, was it, 13, 10, 13 episodes per season?
They're 20 minute, 25 minute episodes, so they're never around
long enough to annoy you.
They're super confident with their characters.
They've got some genuinely funny writers in there.
This show is always good.
And if this is a kind of a lacking episode of Lower Decks.
Well, that's still good.
Yeah, I'm I watch the hell out of it.
It's the Star Trek.
I think that I watch most and I think the running time is a big
selling point for me and just my familiarity with it and I love
those characters and because they're cartoon characters who behave
in this sort of exaggerated way.
I think they're really terribly fun.
But I like all 4 of the lower deckers.
Oh, now feel like in all the live action Star Trek, you know, that
everyone's talking a bit too slow, you know, everyone talks super
paced in comedy in costumes.
They're all talking really fast and it's all that sort of
quickfire buffy dialogue going on.
No, no, go and watch a DS9.
I feel like everyone's in half speed, you know?
That's it.
Maybe that's what we do.
We'll just turn up all of the other episodes to twice speed and
comment on them that way.
This PS5 episode is particularly pacy.
There's reason for that.
It's right.
We could do Star Trek the Motion Picture under those conditions
would be excellent.
Imagine.
If you if you doubled the speed of some of those Nightrex episode
it would be like the camera work in Nightrek episode.
Yeah, zooming about them.
No, it'd still be more stayed than it.
All right.
I think we should go in.
What do you reckon?
I think so too.
Let's do it.
I love talking lower decks.
Okay, I'll count a scene.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.
Here we go.
Oh, I've just had a warning that there's sexual content and
violence in this episode.
Yeah, there isn't that much.
Oh, yeah, there is actually.
I've just thought about it.
All right, so we're in the gym.
Oh, God, we're playing Ambo Jetsu.
Oh, yes.
So this is incredibly violent.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that's from the Pegasus, isn't it?
Like Riker and his father, not the Pegasus.
I can remember what that's called.
It's a season 2 episode where Pulaski's banging Riker's dad.
Well, has banged Riker's dad.
And it's really like, this is brilliant.
And the animation makes it look like a genuine martial art, but in
the TNG episode, they were in this dreadful plastic armour.
It's embarrassing.
Well, isn't it, it's like Riker and his father playing ambo jitsu
to kind of resolve some issue. each other up to get out of their
emotional issues out.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And Troy's a poll.
She's like, why can't you just sit down and talk instead of, you
know, fighting?
But look, she's just absolutely and look poemless vomiting and
stuff.
Now I just think this is adorable.
And this, not this bit because she's, this, look at Shacks.
He wanders in.
He's got a little crop top, he's ready to do some working out, and
I just think he's ridiculously hot.
He's a dill.
He's really hot, is he?
I love the fact that...
Oh, just let me know when you're done.
Yeah, yeah, she's just...
She's there.
A pair of them.
Yeah, that's right.
It's the security officer and the vomit.
I was getting like rick and mortivibes from that.
Yeah, well, this is my good man.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, no, no.
He's been involved in Rick and Morty.
Yeah, absolutely.
May I say, this is the title sequence.
I never fast forward.
Only for the of the aliens sucking on the arse of the Cerritos
which is my favourite bit.
So you can tell that it's series 2 because we have the pack leads
and the Borg and the Romulans there. and it just goes actually, no
we're going to fuck off.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then we get some silicon avatars in the series 3 opening
titles because of course we do.
What's so great about this?
Well, do you know what?
I've been in a few uncompromising positions like this where I've
had to look to the side of that.
I've been sucking on someone's arse.
So, you know, like, yeah, yeah, no, it's relatable.
But it's great because the ship goes across very stately and you
think, oh, this is a lovely shot.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So here we have, so we're on the planet, which I don't know what
it is.
And these are denobulins, and I hadn't realised this, and I don't
think I've seen Dr. Fox do this face thing before.
Yeah, he gets it quite early on in Enterprise.
This is the 1st appearance of Nobulance since Enterprise.
Since Enterprise.
Yeah, which I think is lovely.
No, they've got a cherry pick.
They should cherry pick everything.
Oh yeah, no, I agree.
I think they should absolutely be.
Nathan, look at this, sitting around the conference table looking
at that non-reflective wall bit.
I mean, this has given me some serious 90s vibes here.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The thing on the wall behind Freeman looks exactly like the one
from series 5, 6, and 7 of, you know, Star Trek the Next
Generation.
What's the security officer's name?
Um, Shacks.
Kira. in the DS9 episode.
They're like busy mates, aren't they?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
They're all they're trying to outdo each other on who owes who a
life-saving rescue because they rescued one another constantly
during the occupation.
Which spaceboard game are they playing here?
Kaoto?
No, they're playing a game where they have to compromise.
Their goal is to get a compromise happening.
So it's a super boring card game where they have to learn how to
compromise.
And of course, these are the skills that they're going to bring to
the table at the end, which solve the episode.
And so she's really great at violence in a crackhand, sort of, you
know, beating the crap out of them, and they're playing a card, a
very gentle board game where they're, you know, compromising and
talking tax and stuff.
Who's just fellow behind the bars, spreading gossip about
everybody.
Yeah, so he is a bar guy.
I can't remember his name. his honus, I think.
And I can't remember if he's been in it before, but we get another
scene as well with him at the end, obviously bookending it, which
is pretty great.
I love this where they go up onto people's faces and do the
dramatic light when they're saying something very menacing.
It's, I don't know if you ever watched Alias.
Did you ever watch that No, I never watched aliens.
Seriously, this character called...
Yeah, this character, Francine, and she's doing it again.
She's killed and replaced by a duplicate and she's like lovely in
a scene.
And at the end of the scene, the camera swings round on her
because she's a duplicate and she's got that lighting on her face
looking really evil.
Yeah, that's great.
And that, look, now she's in a, she's in a light as well.
It did make me think, you know, when someone drops a bit of
information like this.
You never realised about this person.
Then you suddenly start looking and you see it, you know?
Yeah.
So his exposition has been rudely interrupted by Billups, the
ship's engineer who wants a daiquiri, I think, or something.
That looks like a great bar, you know, much nicer than temple
words.
I know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I like the bar on discovery, I think.
Oh, and on, and the one on, um, Strangely Worlds. they both look
magnificent Quarks will always be my favourite though.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, it's a franchise now.
It's cool.
Oh, I just like a door... subplot.
Although I happen to go around getting everyone to do their
medical.
Because this is a bit of a thing on his trek.
You haven't been for your medical yet, you know?
And I mean, Tendi is so adorable.
She's so lovely.
And so this is Dr. Tana trying to get her to be more assertive.
And so, um, she has to chase up everyone who refuses.
But then the fact that the last person on the list is bloody Dr
Tiana is out.
Yeah, it's so great.
So here we've been reading about these...
So this is the bit, this is the bit about the pronunciation of the
name.
So he's been reading up.
Boem has been reading up about them and discovers that they're
both Gumato's, Megatos, and Mugatos as well.
Now I explicitly referencing Paul De Forrest Kelly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yep, exactly.
Sorry, just to say what I was going to say there, the bit where
she chased her around the ship.
The thing that made me laugh most about this episode was she just
kept going, the cat every time.
It's so great.
She's so terrific.
I was like, wow.
And another reference.
Good.
Yeah, well, there's another reference to her fucking shacks as
well, or 2 of them are on together.
Oh, yeah, it wasn't just a very flirtatious line, doesn't she?
Yeah.
Come to my quarters later, Nathan.
You can scratch your back.
So, see, I haven't watched a lot of these.
So do we spend a lot of time with the bridge crew in series 2 and
series three?
Well, I mean, the bridge crew, I mean, it focusses on those four
but the bridge crew are in the opening credits and you've got, what
have you got?
You've got Freeman Ransom, Taana, and Shacks basically are the
main ones, aren't they?
Have I forgotten anyone?
I was just like in the 1st place.
I just remember like they obviously they were always cutting away
from the action and we were just hanging out with them, you know
behind the scenes, which I thought was the joke.
But I think what inadvertently happened is, is they created
fantastic bridge crew characters. we want to be with these people
as well.
Yeah, yeah.
And they are really good. they're awesome.
They should have gone all out with this planetary landscape, you
know, and gone full the last outpost and just had some dreadful
you know, looking like an old studio, but there's far too much
depth to it, you know?
Yeah.
So Shax is tracking the Megato by tasting its dung much to
everyone.
Of course.
Oh, look at these 48 because he's...
Do you know what they would have made?
Why did they ever get rid of those?
electric whips. amazing.
Whips.
Is this the 1st time we've seen them with whips since the last
outpost?
Yeah there's a reason for that.
It didn't work, did it?
They were supposed to be the big bad of the trek universe.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then they went, oh, so we go back to the drawing board and
we'll create the ball.
Yeah, who are slightly better, aren't they, really?
Well, as big bads anyway.
They're much better.
Yeah.
Look, I'm all just running in.
Yeah, yeah.
So, So, oh, here we go.
So we kind of primed, I mean, I think this is kind of cute in a
way, because there are 2 there are 2 Megatos in a very private
little war, and they both get killed.
They both get phased to death by Kirk, I think, both times
actually.
And, you know, they're just sort of threatening and stuff.
And so having them sympathetic, because they're now endangered, and
we kind of care about them and they're being poached, because
they're covered in horns and stuff, I think that's sort of
delightful, and we do get lots of fabulous comedy with the Megatas
in here, I think.
Wow, it's kind of like that. like you were saying before about the
corn, wasn't it?
like they took the corn, which was absolutely ridiculous. and made
it absolutely terrifying.
Yeah.
So we had that sort of terrifying shot where it looks like Mariner
is stabbing shacks and then she turns to look at them and she's
got blood dripping out of her mouth and it's because the Megatos
are poisonous.
And in fact, Kirk gets poisoned by one in that Star Trek episode
and she's just sucking the poison out.
We'll discover later.
It's got a pair of furry. scholarship.
Yeah, yeah.
Glowing fairy dice. space fairy nice.
So this is another plot.
The guy who was buying the horns is now is now trying to pull a
con on the on the crew and successfully does that just about by
characters.
It happened every now and again, and not it's track, and there
were always a lot of fun.
Do you remember the fella from in the Power Moonlight?
Okay, one or 2 arrives?
Oh, yeah, girls, you know, he's that sort of character, isn't he?
Well, that's...
When they're trying to disarm the bomb.
It's starship down and he's and he's pretending he's not a
criminal.
It says how he is all along.
Oh no.
Is this the bit where they're fucking?
Because I'll tell you what, I had to turn away at that point.
It's so funny.
So that is coming up.
So the Megato's, what's happened?
Oh, no, no, this is where they come across Steve Irwin or
something.
So this seems to be a sort of guest star.
Was he Australian?
His name.
Is it explicit?
I think he's got an English accent.
It's a bad Australia accent.
So he's what, he must be a Tellerite, right?
And his name's Patingi.
I think he must be, I think he must be English. anyway, but he
gets killed, much like Steve Irwin.
It's a whole thing.
So he says that he's got 5 books on the Megatos, but then it turns
out that he's just read 5 books on the Megatos rather than written
them.
Okay, so this is Lieutenant Stevens, who is weirdly in love with
ransom in a couple of episodes, like he's idolises ransom and he's
sort of super pathetic.
He's a bit of a beater, that guy.
What makes all these characters so likeable in it?
There's kind of an innocence about them all, isn't there?
Yeah.
It's like a childlike innocence about them all.
And that's a cartoon character thing, isn't it?
They have a child...
Rick and Morty.
I think I don't think anyone's that innocent in that, but I don't
know, these are people that are lovely.
Oh, gosh.
Super violent, isn't it?
So they hide away.
And then these 2 McGasso's?
that how you say it?
Yeah, yeah, Magutu.
They start having incredible sex.
And then another one comes along.
You think he's going to join in?
He starts having a wank.
I was like, that's terrific.
I just kept thinking, please don't walk in at this point to my
raw.
That's why not?
That's really funny, that bit.
Okay, that's about to happen now, isn't it?
So they're doing a little bit of conversation about having to out
Mariner as a black ops security person.
Here you go.
Here are 2 Magados.
They're about to have sex.
And so they hide in a hollow log and that's where what the Mogados
decide to have sex on. he's taking her from behind.
Like, it's a whole...
It's so grim. really very animated.
Oh, it's safe, though.
You know, in like nature documentaries when they show you this
stuff and I'm like, I want to see that.
She's really into it.
Like, she's lying back there with a big smile on her face.
Like, she's...
Jesus Christ.
But then, so the, that's the thing, then another Megado comes
along and they just assume that he's going to try and steal the
other one's mate.
And then look at the look at the expression that this guy gives.
He scratches his head and then he just goes, off you go.
Like, he gives you a little off you go, hands and go, and he's
rubbing his horn.
Robbing his torn.
God's so...
Oh, so ridiculous.
I think we always end up watching sex on these cartoons, you
know.
Yeah.
Oh, look, there's pretty Jet, who has presumably, oh, no, he's
been caught and Kayshon has just punched him in the face.
So there you go.
She's got another one.
Yeah, this is it.
It's just these tiny little vignettes of her popping in to
everybody's lives and doing this medical.
It's just never around long enough to be annoying, is it?
It's so cute, this one.
Oh, well, she's done, she's done Counsellor Maglimo.
I noticed his name on the, on the, on the list, and he's the bird
you know, who's the ship's counsellor, who isn't in this episode
because his actor is playing the alien who has had his ship blown
up. booby trap then.
They are a couple episodes.
Yeah.
Yep.
It's quite a good boob trap.
It's like a bear trap, isn't it?
Only a space bear trap.
She's absolutely appalled, isn't she?
When they're like, we're for a secret spy.
Why?
Because I just happened to catch something one day.
Yeah, yeah.
No, they're both being idiots and it is a cartoon, so it's kind of
forgivable, but in a way, they're a bit beyond this, I think, you
know.
And I think...
I've got to fill the episodes up with something, okay?
Well, that's right.
And I think the thing that's kind of really adorable is that
Mariner is so cool and those guys are such dogs and that's why
they believe that she's a secret agent because why would someone
as cool as her want to be friends with them when they're such dogs
the way that that resolves itself at the end is beautiful, I
think.
Well, I might, I'll say this story about the comedy in this
episode, yeah, and this subplot, they might be behaving like
idiots to believe all of this, yeah.
But the last 2 comedies that we saw were data in generations, and
Mrs. Troy and Manhunt.
And I'll take this over that any day of the week.
Oh, no.
I mean, this this goes to show that comedy does work in a Star
Trek context, and I think...
The whole show does, doesn't it?
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, absolutely.
And it's a good place for comedy.
And I think, you know, trouble with tribble shows that it works
and I think it works on Deep Space 9 and stuff as well.
The thing that you always say about Star Trek is, you know, it's
like whenever they take it too seriously, we were CGVR 558 and
things like that.
And you're like, no, this show's absurd.
Like, stop taking it so seriously.
Is this custom bill for you, this, to lean into all the
absurdities of the Star Trek.
Oh, I love that hall on that Ferenki's hit.
He's got a massive ball on his head.
So he's called kink.
Just to prove that he's in charge, you know?
Yeah.
But there's not really an environmental.
I'm wondering if they were going to go down that route with this
episode, you know, and sort of...
Well, it is a little bit because they...
Yeah, well, we know that they're villains because they're they're
hunting and like they rip the baby Megato out of the mother's arms
and stuff.
Like, they're really properly horrible.
But then they discover it's more profitable to, you know, run it
as a tourist business and look after the Magata.
Isn't that sort of very sweet, I think.
I get why they kind of go down that route, but we did a so much
salvation of the Ferengi in DS9.
Like they're not always portrayed like this in low decks, are
they?
No, no, no.
And she has a Ferengi friend in an episode who, you know, she's, um
she tricks Boimla with and stuff like that.
Like it's a, yeah, they're not They're not always like this.
It's an obviously scientist friend that Beverly Crusher had into
suspicions.
Oh, he's very straight.
It's becoming a habit of us discussing suspicions, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We should do it.
We should just go away.
Bad doctor.
Bad Dr. Talana.
She's cowsing around the ship.
Miaowing like a madman.
It's so brilliant.
And to think that they just didn't invent Dr. Tahana.
They said, oh, we can have a cat alien.
It's kind of like, no, we have cat aliens in Star Trek.
We'll just have one of those and she's going to be the doctor and
she's so good.
And you know what I love as well?
It's the fact that they make this massive show about chasing it
all around the ship. when she does it, she just scans her and she
goes, oh, it weren't as bad as a fool.
That's nice, but it's only when she breaks her arm.
Like she, like she, she breaks her own arm deliberately and it's
super horrible and then she goes, oh yeah, no. the fact that she
just goes off...
That was a bit of an overreaction, wasn't it?
What are these weird, slimy aliens?
Yeah, there's just one of him.
I don't know what he is. you know, we can't really do anything on
the bow Moscow, you know, because they're all realised really
well.
Yeah, they all look pretty good, I think. some of them look
amazing.
Yeah, I do like the occasional Beaumari-ish alien.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So this, so the 2 boys, they, she's encouraged them.
She's told them she's not black ops.
She said that they have to be the heroes now. and so they go off
and do it and they do it in the same way as their stupid board
game.
Here we go.
This is a tendee about to scan in the in the Jefferson.
That's funny, though, is that there are 3 plots here.
Her being a spy, the Franklin and the planet, and her doing all of
the medicals.
They're not really tied up thematically, are they?
No, no, no.
But they, yeah, and in fact, the tandy plot has nothing at all.
Well, I guess, I don't know.
No, not really.
But it feels very long, she's true.
A way of talking together.
Because that's what they're doing here.
But like, usually, one of my joys with Kurtzman Shrek is how, you
know, you will tie it all together intellectually, thematically.
And as I was watching it, I was going, well, good luck.
Yeah, there's nothing here.
And I mean, they get the, they get the, um, alien who is involved
in the blowing up his own ship plot to have just been here and
bought some horns or whatever.
But basically that plots distinct from this as well.
Yeah, and they bring out the big gun and the big gun just shows a
3D Kurtzman style PowerPoint presentation, you know, on how it's
much more profitable to look after and breed the Megatos than it
is to kill them and take their horns.
Did you see those weird ass Ferengi that were in discovery series
three?
They had it really strange, didn't they?
I know it was in the future. so fair enough.
I don't know.
I like me a bit of cartoon latex, so we're getting in.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, these 2 beautiful nerdy men are negotiating our way to
safety using the power of maths.
You know, like...
It is.
It's adorable.
It's just so sweet.
And it's very Star Treky as well.
It isn't doing anything revolutionary, this episode, is it?
But it is very amiable.
Yeah.
I've just walked away from going, well, that was nice.
That was lovely.
Yeah.
Well, I think too, that solving the problem not by being a black
ops person, but by being good at maths and being able to convince
people with your PowerPoint presentation, there you go.
She's gonna heal him all night.
She's...
Yeah, I've been...
It's like Bajoran and a cat.
I bet they're filthy.
No, they are.
And they're both a bit older too.
So they're super filthy.
They know.
Oh, see, now Tendee's being assertive, isn't she?
So like, get away from my patient.
Yeah, except it's not her patient.
Look, and she says, so get the fuck out of the way.
This is my patient.
I don't want to drive this point on too much, you know, but we did
watch Generations of Manhub.
This is a fabulous palate cleanser, you know, from that.
Yeah, yeah.
A nice reminder that Star Trek can in fact be good.
Yep.
So here, this is how, so she's talking to her husband, Carol
Freeman's talking to Admiral Freeman.
She is, he?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Um, and he tips her off that that guy Hyde um, was actually
pulling a con and had stolen, you know, like had tricked her into
giving her, giving him a shuttle and all of the stuff in her
office.
And so she's dragging him back and now he'll get a, uh, the same
kind of punishment as um, Cyrano Jones gets in trouble with
tribbles.
I could literally, the way she's standing there on that bridge
pulling it back like that, I could see Janeway doing that.
Absolutely.
She's great.
I love Captain Freeman.
She really awesome.
There you go.
There's just not like, I think the mother and the baby are
reunited and they're happy. you know that's brilliant.
There's more efforts done in those 3.5 seconds than you're adding
that entire original series episode to make those aliens
convincing.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
So this is adorable.
So she, there, she's joined in on their sort of compromise game
where they have to, you know, negotiate a compromise and it's not
that no one wins.
Do you know what I mean?
Everyone is a little bit unhappy with the outcome and that's how
compromises work.
And, you know, Boim was going, do you understand this?
And she goes, oh, no, I don't.
And then she goes to the bar.
And then they say, oh my god, she's kicking our ass in this as
well.
So she's better at this there thing than they are, which I think
is pretty great.
And now she's telling a lie about what great.
The lights going dramatic superheroes they are.
Just so that honours will tell that to the next person who comes
along, which is her little gift to them, which is kind of
adorable.
Spreading disinformation, you know, is one of my great joys at
work.
I managed to convince people last week I've got a twin brother.
Oh, really?
Jamie, by all accounts.
Oh, okay.
Does he look like you, identical or fraternal?
Wow, that was terrible.
I literally convinced somebody that I was downstairs.
My twin brother was down, I ran downstairs, put on a fleece
started playing music.
That person came down the stairs, looked at me very strange.
I was like, you're right, you see my brother?
Very easy to do, you know, you should do her work.
That was only for too quickly.
I was really enjoying that.
Yeah, it's really fun.
I just think that's a complete... generations, which went on
forever.
Yeah, yeah, God.
Yeah, like it just never seemed to end. is really fun.
I'm actually finding too, like as we're recording, prodigy is on
at the moment, and it's been really good.
Like it's it's showing the 2nd half of series one, the next sort
of 10 episodes.
And they're short and they're lovely and they are like a kid's
cartoon in that there's a very sort of simple arc. you know, it
has to have a proper character arc or it doesn't work and there's
some great action and the plot is developing.
It's been really good.
So, so there's that.
You think there's an ideal link for a Star Trek episode?
Because obviously they're all sort of 25 minutes.
Um, original series comes in between 50 and sort of 55 minutes
sometimes.
Yeah, sometimes a bit longer.
And 90 straight generally comes in at about 40 minutes, but they
can feel a bit padded, can't they?
No worries, actually.
Like Kurzman Trek is, is, uh, it varies in length and, you know
because it doesn't have to occupy a time slot because it's purely
on streaming.
We've had sort of 35 minute episodes and they've been episodes
much, much longer than that.
And I think, you know, they generally tend to justify their length
I think, because they aren't having to do anything to pad out.
Well, one of the things I love about Kersman trick is they don't
give a toss about sticking to a certain length, do they?
how long does the story need to be?
That's how long this episode will be.
Yeah, whereas, you know, we've seen, or I've seen 90s trick
episodes with free plots in it like this.
And honestly, it feels like they're about 5 hours long.
This just goes to show you can do an AB and C in 22 minutes.
Yeah.
And I think it is a skill and I have a very short attention span
and so I'm always happy to watch something that lasts for sort of
25 minutes.
So, mission accomplished, I think.
Well, I hate to tell you this, but whatever we're going to watch
next is probably going to be a bit longer.
Yeah, imagine it will be.
Oh well, I'm ready for it.
Me too.
It's the end of the episode, and it's time for us to work out what
we're going to watch next.
And, Joe, you have control of the button, so tell me how you're
going to approach it this time.
Well, we did a marvellous original series episode, Trouble
Drawals.
We did a dreadful Star Trek, the Next Generation movie, Generations
and even more dreadful Star Trek, the Next Generation episode
Manhunt.
And then we dipped our toes into Kurtzman Trek.
So there's only one way we can possibly go next.
I'll just put everything in Anime series.
I know.
I'll just pay it for you.
I like doing that.
I like it because then it bounces back too.
Anyway, shall I press it?
Okay, all right.
Here goes.
Well, we ain't going here, that's for sure.
It's Star Trek Voyager.
Season five, episode five.
Once upon a time.
Oh, I don't even know what that is.
It's a Neelix and Naomi Wildman episode. where they head into the
holodeck and meet.
It's basically an editorium tree.
It's the inferior version of cost of living.
Yeah, okay.
All right.
Agonisingly terrible.
Let's not do that.
Oh, dear.
Oh, bugger it.
Okay, your random subject, D Space 9 episode is series four
episode three, the visitor. have to do that.
We've just done a big role, right?
We just want to yell at us.
We just want the CGI.
Oh, it is amazing.
Yeah, but that was terrible.
This is good.
It's so good.
Okay, all right, okay.
We could never roll it again.
There's like 870 episodes out there.
No, like it's, uh...
No, like that never... dramatis persona and things like that, isn't
it?
That's right.
Getting a good episode is a statistical rarity.
Do you imagine this?
Well, one is going to be a visitor.
Star Trek, these based on episode?
It could be.
It has been a while since I've seen it.
Um, but I do remember being massively affected by it, and you've
got Tony Todd as old Jake, and it is that thing.
It's one of those things.
Star Trek Discovery does an episode like that, the name of which I
can't remember in series 4, where they take a character's grief
and they make it real by inventing a complicated science fiction
thing to make it happen.
And so you've got this kind of time thing which is all explained
through hand waving and is specifically designed to show you what
grief is like.
And I think that's really something.
And so, you know, I think it's just a terribly affecting episode
with some great performances, like 3 central great performances.
I've always found it very moving.
I lost my mum 3 years ago, 3 years ago, yesterday, funnily enough
and um, I watched it for the 1st time this year since I lost my
mum and it works on a whole different level.
Like the grief that he goes through and oh, and it takes a lot for
television to make me cry.
Like, I'm a bit hard when it comes to watching television.
And I, that last scene between the older Jake and Cisco, where you
realise he's committing suicide.
I was absolute, I was in pieces.
Yeah.
I think I may have been in a similar situation to you when I 1st
watched this when it 1st came out.
Um, and Unlike you, I cried all sorts of things.
I listened to an audio documentary about the music for Star Wars
and or and I was in tears for most of that.
So like I, you know, I cry at the drop of a hat, but the grief
thing, you know, like, like when it's particularly present, I
think, you know, that sort of thing is hugely affecting.
And I think it's absolutely worth doing an episode at this point
of DS 9.
This is right at the start of series 4 and this is where it
basically stepped up a notch. and became a lot of people's
favourites.
You know, this is where it was at its most confident.
Yeah, okay, let's do it.
Yeah, okay, brilliant.
Let's do that.
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford
and Nathan Bottomley.
We're online at untitled Star Trek Project.com where you can find
links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was
composed by Cavern Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 19th of December 2022 and
released on the 30th of December.
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Deep Space 9, the visitor.
Jesus Christ.
How are you going for once upon a time?
to the visitor.
That's what we that's Star Trek.
Do you know what I mean?
It goes wildly.
Let's do an animated series one after that.
Interestingly, the 2nd the 2nd episode of Voyages.
4 Season, the Gift.
I really like as well.
I don't like them as much as the visitor of.
I think it's really, and I think they're in a similar situation
where they kind of hit a point where they suddenly are very
confident.
They do Scorpion, then they do the gift and then 4 and 5 are
generally speaking, really good.
The gift is strange, isn't it?
Because it is that sort of letting her go. thing, like there's an
urgency about her departure.
There's a scene between her and Janeway and her quarters, where
Janeway can just, she can't even hold back the tears because she
knows the case of saying, I've got to go and I've got to explore
this.
That's really good.
But yeah, visitors really heavy heating though, isn't it?
Yeah, and it probably lets us talk about Avery and Sirok as well
that relationship.
Aaron Eisenberg is brilliant, isn't it?
That's great well building.
Yeah, it's good.
Yeah.
You're right, you're right.
I was going to press it again.
You've convinced me.
You'd be convincing me to do a DS9 episode.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, no, that's fine.
And I didn't I didn't like AR 558.
We have done a lot of deep say so lately, but I mean, who's going
to complain about us doing the visitor?
It's hugely important.
Yeah.
All right.
So I'll tell you what I'm going to do. stop recording.
Yeah.