WEBVTT

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This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 21:30:28

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, it's Christmas, and we are doing what I think is probably Star

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Trek's only Christmas movie, and that is Star Trek Generation.

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Why Christmas movie?

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Well, there's that Christmas tree in it and all of that sort of

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thing a bit later on in a bit that we will undoubtedly talk about

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when we get there.

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Oh, we will fucking talk about that bit.

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I'm telling you.

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Well, and also the fact that I thought in the future there was no

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religion.

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Why do we have a Christmas sequence?

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Well, Christmas isn't that religious anymore.

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Star Trek famously shies away from Christmas, you know.

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I dont know if you notice this.

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There's no Christmas specials or anything like that, is there?

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That's true.

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No, but I'm desperately excited because it is our 1st Star Trek

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movie.

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It's basically the only area of the franchise that we haven't got

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our grubby little fingers on yet.

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Yep.

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And we've started with an absolute zinger.

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So this is a pivotal moment though, isn't it?

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This is the transition from television to movies for the next

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generation, and the impossible has happened.

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A 2nd Star Trek crew has gone on voyages all around the galaxy and

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have proven to be even more popular than the original series, I

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would say, you know.

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And at this point, Post Series 7 of Next Generation and before

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this is the zenith, I would say, of popularity in Star Trek.

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So this movie had a lot riding on its shoulders.

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Can this crew successfully make this leap from television to

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movies?

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What do you think the answer is?

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Yeah, not really.

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What do you think the problem is?

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I think the problem is that we just have the same creatives doing

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this and we're starting to shoot at just weeks after finishing all

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good things.

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And so it's not.

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On the same set?

43
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Yeah, it's not sufficiently different.

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And it is just a little bit too much like a big episode.

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And it's not just the production that makes it that way, but just

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the way that it's written and the way that it's shot.

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I just think it's not as interesting as it should have been for

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the 1st movie.

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What was um, what was your birth episode of TOS?

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was Turn about Intruder, wasn't it?

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So yeah, so I, the turnabout intruder is the only episode of TOS

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that was released during my lifetime.

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So I was born just before it came out.

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So that was the last episode of the original series.

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Yeah.

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And then you skipped to the emotion picture.

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And I'm telling you now, there's a fair chasm between the two.

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But you go from all good things to generations.

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And I'll tell you what, it's only a tiny little leap from one to

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the other.

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Yeah.

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And so the motion picture is about a thing.

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It's about the crew coming back together, being brought back

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together to confront something that was sort of ripped off an

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original Star Trek episode.

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But, but it's an event.

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It's a huge event and the crew coming together is interesting.

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We get to see where they've been and we get to see them meet one

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another again and board the Enterprise.

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We get to be excited about Star Trek in this new medium for the

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1st time.

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This one is to be introduced to that sexy new enterprise in a

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prolonged sequence that takes 15.5 minutes. very prolonged.

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But here it's just the following week, you know, we did all good

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things and now it's, you know, Stardate 48, something or other and

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you know, it's business as usual, I think.

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I think the only massive difference is the budget.

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That's it.

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I think in some places you can see that and in upper places, not

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so much.

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And I think the problem is, is because we are on the stand, it

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says.

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I think if you think of this movie, As a TV movie that's bridging

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the gap between because this is where they destroy those sets and

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that enterprise goes down and then we do get what I consider to be

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a movie in inverted commas in 1st contact with the new enterprise

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and it feels incredibly cinematic and epic and all the things this

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probably should have been.

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If you sort of think of this as a bridge between the two.

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But that really wasn't what this was supposed to be.

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No.

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No.

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And it is the problem, which is going to be increasingly a problem

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with the franchise going forward, is that we just have the same

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creatives doing everything from now on.

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And that will sort of peter out in series 4 of enterprise.

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And, you know, like I think they try and get new people in to do

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nemesis, but by then it's too late and we've all stopped caring, I

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think.

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Well, this is written by Ronald D. Moore of TNG and DS9 and

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Brandon Braga of TNG Voyager and Enterprise.

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So in terms of like 90s TV.

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This is, you know, this is your pedigree, isn't it?

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These are the ones.

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These are big creatives.

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Yeah.

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And it's directed by David Carson, who impressed with yesterday's

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Enterprise.

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Our 1st episode is incredibly well directed.

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Yeah, for a television episode.

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And when we talked about how well lit that was.

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Yes, yeah, yeah.

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We'll come back to that in this movie, all right?

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Yeah, I think we mentioned it at the time, actually, that he goes

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on to do generations and that he uses some of the tricks he's

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learned about lighting these sets in generations and clearly he's

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allowed to do that.

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I mean, if you were just, you know, Rick Colby, who was coming in

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to do an episode for a month, he wasn't going to be allowed to

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change the way the standing sets were lit.

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His creative freedom as a director required him to still adhere to

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the house style.

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And because we had a sort of parallel universe thing or an

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alternate timeline thing in yesterday's enterprise, that gave

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Carson the chance to do something a little bit more interesting.

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And here he's allowed to do something more interesting, but it is

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still the same sets that we're used to seeing.

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So distracting.

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We'll talk about that because I'm so used to seeing the sort of

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beige bland overhead lighting on all these sets.

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There's something to see them that shot in interesting ways with

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interesting lighting. really, really weird.

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But also, as well, Carson impressed with emissary.

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He directed emissary for DS9.

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And that actually, and think about this, that had a 3rd of the

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budget of this movie that had nearly 20000000 thrown at it.

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And I think visually, emissary is actually a lot more interesting

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than generations.

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But like Carson had basically said, Stall, and they knew he was

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you know, a good pair of hands, and if you throw a bit of money at

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him, can deliver the goods.

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So they think they've got, you know, their best writers.

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They think they've got one of their best directors.

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They throw £60000000 at this movie.

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Let's see what you can do.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, let's see.

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Well, I have to say, I have been I've watched this nearly 3 times

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now this week.

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Thank you for yourself.

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I know.

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Thank you, thank you.

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Well, I wanted to listen to the commentaries.

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I wanted to watch it and then I listened to the commentary with

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Moore and Braga, then I wanted to listen to the commentary with

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David Carson just to see everybody's different opinions.

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Obviously, I watched it the 1st time myself and thought it was

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fucking dreary.

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The 2nd time I watched it, it's more at Braga and there, it's way

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after this was like they've left the franchise.

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So they can be honest, then they basically spent 2 hours going

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well, what went wrong, Ron?

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What went wrong, Brannan, you know?

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But they're doing a lot of interesting things to say.

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And I will drop a lot of the trivia that they talk about.

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And Carson talks with Manny Koto, who went on to show run

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Enterprise season four.

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And that's a massive love in because Carson's obviously

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justifiably proud of what he did here.

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And Manicoto is a huge Star Trek fan.

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So, but the tone of the 2 commentaries.

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It's so different.

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It is worth listening to it.

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It does mean you have to experience the film a couple of times

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though, unfortunately.

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As a result.

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Look, I mean, I don't think it's a good film and I think it makes

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a lot of mistakes, but I would be lying if I said that I hated it

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or that I didn't have some kind of sentimental attachment to it.

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And the one saving grace of watching it this time was getting to

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spend time with the next generation crew, who I acknowledge are

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not necessarily the best Star Trek crew overassembled, but they

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were my 1st Star Trek crew and I kind of love them.

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And I know, you know, they, we're going to see them next year in

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Star Trek, Picard, and all of that sort of thing, like I'm excited

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to see them in this.

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And, yeah, like they're not always as good as they could be, but

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they're still fun to be had just hanging out with them, I think.

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I mean, I do hope that next year in series 3 and Star Trek, Picard

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that is their last outing.

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I mean, they do have one foot in the grave now this bunch.

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Well, I mean, they're older, but that's all right, and I think

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they look pretty good.

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I tell you what, I think Michael Dawn's looking pretty fine in the

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Klingon makeup with the white beard.

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He's looking pretty great.

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You're going to say, XC.

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You know, like watching Picard recently and then going back and

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watching this movie where they're sort of a lot younger and

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vibrant and up for the movie and things like that, you know.

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Yeah.

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It is nice.

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But I think, and we'll get there.

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I do think when the next gen crew hits this movie. that

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unfortunately, that is where it takes a dramatic downturning

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quality.

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I would pick its dramatic downturn in quality a bit later than

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that, but I do think that they make mistakes. by any chance?

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Yeah, yeah, that's just dismal.

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That's so boring. thinking.

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Well, look, should we start this thing?

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Yeah, I think we should.

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I'll um...

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We've got too long hours to get through.

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As ever, I will say, the pain is somewhat numbed by the fact that

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you are holding my hand doing this with me.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Oh, and the listeners are suffering everyone with us.

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So there's that too.

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Oh, that always has an extra layer of enjoyment.

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All right. count us in.

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Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.

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Here we go.

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Okay.

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Paramount logo.

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Yeah, just in case we ever forget where this came from.

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Yes.

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Not Paramount anymore, is it?

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Is it?

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Well, it's CBS, but it's Paramount.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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It's screens on CBS.

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It's Paramount because it's on Paramount Park.

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Oh, this is on Param Plus.

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Yeah, okay.

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Okay.

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So I have to say that I did say this off my, but I'm going to say

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it again on my, because it's a point worth making, that most Star

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Trek movies do start with a fantastic, you know, creative hook

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like the probe coming in at the beginning of Star Trek Voyager

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something like that.

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This could be a probe.

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We don't know that yet.

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It's a fucking bottle of champagne.

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And it flies through space for what feels like 10 minutes.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I think it's a kind of gag though, isn't it?

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I mean, it sort of works as a visual gag.

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Normally, your expectation is that, I mean, like in a Star Wars

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film, it always starts with a Starfield and a spaceship coming

252
00:12:09.059 --> 00:12:09.659
in.

253
00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:14.519
Um, and here, I think we expect a probe or something like that.

254
00:12:14.580 --> 00:12:15.960
And so it is a gag.

255
00:12:16.019 --> 00:12:19.379
I mean, at this point, I'm just seeing Gates as credit in opening

256
00:12:19.379 --> 00:12:24.059
things and you can just see the, um, you can just see that it's a

257
00:12:24.059 --> 00:12:26.879
bottle, I think, probably if you already know that at this point.

258
00:12:26.940 --> 00:12:28.919
Malcolm McDowell.

259
00:12:28.980 --> 00:12:36.179
I would like to say that the music in this movie, the theme I

260
00:12:36.179 --> 00:12:38.639
thought was particularly good, but I thought the music was really

261
00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:42.480
strong throughout, and they've used one of the TV musicians, I

262
00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:42.720
think.

263
00:12:42.779 --> 00:12:45.960
So it's Dennis McCarthy is doing the music.

264
00:12:46.019 --> 00:12:47.159
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

265
00:12:47.279 --> 00:12:50.039
He did a lot of TV trek in the 90s.

266
00:12:50.100 --> 00:12:54.840
Well, he also wrote the Deep Space 9 theme, which he basically

267
00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:58.139
just shamelessly reuses as the theme for this.

268
00:12:58.200 --> 00:13:04.019
So this introductory music is very kind of nondescript.

269
00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:07.139
But when he comes in for the big theme, it's just the deep.

270
00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:08.820
Space 9 theme, essentially.

271
00:13:08.879 --> 00:13:12.779
And I feel a bit sad that he didn't use the opportunity to do the

272
00:13:12.779 --> 00:13:16.200
original theme that he did for Star Trek, the next generation.

273
00:13:16.259 --> 00:13:17.340
Do you remember?

274
00:13:17.399 --> 00:13:18.059
Do you remember that?

275
00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:22.379
Oh, God, we were going to use that on this podcast.

276
00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:23.700
Yeah, yeah.

277
00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:26.639
When I edited the 1st few episodes to see whether it would work.

278
00:13:26.700 --> 00:13:28.559
No, don't...

279
00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:29.279
Let's be honest.

280
00:13:29.340 --> 00:13:31.440
We both fell in love with that dreadful music.

281
00:13:31.500 --> 00:13:32.759
Yeah, yeah.

282
00:13:32.820 --> 00:13:34.919
But partly because it was super terrible.

283
00:13:34.980 --> 00:13:38.700
Thank goodness, we fell in love with the piece of music that was

284
00:13:38.700 --> 00:13:42.720
created for us because I would hate for that to be...

285
00:13:42.779 --> 00:13:43.620
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

286
00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:46.620
No, that's really terrific, but goodness me, the Dennis McCarthy

287
00:13:46.620 --> 00:13:47.879
theme is really quite terrible.

288
00:13:47.940 --> 00:13:52.080
Did you notice that that champagne dates from just before the

289
00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:57.000
Enterprise's 1st, you know, the 1st five-year mission?

290
00:13:57.059 --> 00:13:58.139
It's 2265.

291
00:13:58.379 --> 00:14:00.600
And so, yeah.

292
00:14:00.659 --> 00:14:04.139
Star Trek has sped about a 100 years after it's broadcast.

293
00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:06.360
And so that's why that...

294
00:14:06.360 --> 00:14:09.120
It's finally smashed into the hull of that ship.

295
00:14:09.179 --> 00:14:10.080
Yes.

296
00:14:10.139 --> 00:14:14.279
Oh, so that's a glacial beginning, I'm afraid, right?

297
00:14:15.179 --> 00:14:19.740
So we have a lot of people here and a lot of people who are sort

298
00:14:19.740 --> 00:14:20.519
of very familiar.

299
00:14:20.580 --> 00:14:24.240
And this is our 1st sort of view of journalists and Kurtzman Trek

300
00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:27.899
continues to have journalists and we've seen them in sort of

301
00:14:27.899 --> 00:14:31.740
various contexts, but that's actually quite a new thing here.

302
00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:37.500
Yeah, I can only think of Jake. in DS 9.

303
00:14:37.559 --> 00:14:39.539
I mean, like, generally, so I can think of.

304
00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:42.840
Yeah, but remember there's the Federation News Network and stuff

305
00:14:42.840 --> 00:14:48.840
showing the Attack on Mars in that short Treks episode that we did

306
00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:49.259
for instance.

307
00:14:49.320 --> 00:14:50.820
Ah, yeah.

308
00:14:50.820 --> 00:14:53.340
And in the 1st episode of Picard as well.

309
00:14:53.399 --> 00:14:55.740
You know, he's interviewed by a journalist and stuff.

310
00:14:55.799 --> 00:14:57.419
So we do still have journalism in the future.

311
00:14:57.480 --> 00:15:02.460
But there are some very familiar faces here because Tim Russ is up

312
00:15:02.460 --> 00:15:03.059
the back somewhere.

313
00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:04.559
We've got some lines later on.

314
00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:08.580
Jerry turns up in a couple of episodes, you know, before he was on

315
00:15:08.580 --> 00:15:09.179
Voyager.

316
00:15:09.240 --> 00:15:10.500
I think they're just like using him.

317
00:15:10.620 --> 00:15:12.480
Yeah, well he's very good.

318
00:15:12.539 --> 00:15:16.679
He's in Starship Mine, where he's the kind of chief villain, I

319
00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:16.919
think.

320
00:15:16.980 --> 00:15:17.519
He really great.

321
00:15:17.580 --> 00:15:21.419
And he's just the chief Klingon villain in DS9's innovasive

322
00:15:21.419 --> 00:15:23.340
procedures and he's brilliant Klingon.

323
00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:31.980
So, um, Jeanette Goldstein, who played, um, John Connor's kind of

324
00:15:31.980 --> 00:15:38.759
foster mother in Terminator 2 and who played Vazquez in Aliens, uh

325
00:15:38.759 --> 00:15:42.240
who sort of is a redhead.

326
00:15:42.299 --> 00:15:46.200
She is at one of the stations and she gets a few lines as well.

327
00:15:46.620 --> 00:15:50.460
Well, that's a bit of a, given a pedigree.

328
00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:52.440
That's a bit of a waste, isn't it?

329
00:15:52.500 --> 00:15:56.580
Yeah, yeah, it's around about the time that she's appearing in

330
00:15:56.580 --> 00:15:58.980
lots of films, in lots of sort of genre films and stuff.

331
00:15:59.100 --> 00:16:02.639
I mean, the shocking thing is her last name's Goldstein and she's

332
00:16:02.639 --> 00:16:08.879
playing the kind of aggressively Latina Vazquez in aliens, which

333
00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:09.539
is pretty great.

334
00:16:09.899 --> 00:16:16.019
One thing that Moore says during the commentary is that what

335
00:16:16.019 --> 00:16:19.919
annoyed him about TNG on the television was that they just never

336
00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:21.000
were allowed enough extras.

337
00:16:21.059 --> 00:16:23.879
Whenever there was a meeting about cutting money, they would

338
00:16:23.879 --> 00:16:26.580
always cut extras and they would always want it to be like

339
00:16:26.580 --> 00:16:30.179
thriving the Enterprise 10 forward or the planets that they go

340
00:16:30.179 --> 00:16:30.419
to.

341
00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:33.480
And what you end up with is about 5 people in the corner and say

342
00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:33.779
you know.

343
00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:36.779
Whereas throughout this movie, there's just lots of people in

344
00:16:36.779 --> 00:16:38.700
every scene, in this scene in particular.

345
00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:42.419
Yeah, well, remember that we noticed that in yesterday's

346
00:16:42.419 --> 00:16:45.419
enterprise, that in yesterday's enterprise, the ship is very, very

347
00:16:45.419 --> 00:16:46.379
full of people.

348
00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:50.039
And I guess they're not doing any other sets and they're saving up

349
00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:51.539
money and stuff in order to do it.

350
00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:53.279
Tim Ross in the background of that shot.

351
00:16:53.340 --> 00:16:59.759
I like how both Harriman and Kirk kind of fondle the captain's

352
00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:02.879
chair one after the other before he goes to Singapore.

353
00:17:02.940 --> 00:17:05.940
Oh, we've been in the presence of the great William Shatner this

354
00:17:05.940 --> 00:17:07.619
long, and we haven't mentioned him yet.

355
00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:10.019
Well, he's only doing a couple of lines.

356
00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:13.500
He's actually pretty great, I think, in this part of the film.

357
00:17:13.559 --> 00:17:15.960
And he's very shatnery.

358
00:17:16.019 --> 00:17:19.019
He's very much more like Shatner than he is like Kirk, and I guess

359
00:17:19.019 --> 00:17:24.539
he's turned into a bit of a blowhard, you know, like he has in

360
00:17:24.539 --> 00:17:25.380
real life at this point.

361
00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:27.960
I love the fact that he's constantly having to restrain himself

362
00:17:27.960 --> 00:17:31.680
because he's so used to calling the shots and he's being

363
00:17:31.680 --> 00:17:34.500
respectful of the new captain at the Enterprise.

364
00:17:34.500 --> 00:17:38.700
And even when the shit hits the fan, he's still like keeping

365
00:17:38.700 --> 00:17:41.819
himself under, and the 2nd he goes, look, I could do with some

366
00:17:41.819 --> 00:17:42.299
help here.

367
00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:44.460
He's out of that chair and doing his thing, you know?

368
00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:50.400
I really like this Excelsior class design.

369
00:17:50.460 --> 00:17:51.900
It looks really hefty.

370
00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:55.680
I'm like, see, but if I say, I don't really notice the different

371
00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:57.119
styles of spaceship.

372
00:17:57.180 --> 00:17:58.200
They just all look the same to me.

373
00:17:58.259 --> 00:18:03.720
So that had been in maybe Star Trek five, I think, was the

374
00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:09.779
USSXLsior that had the Transwarp engine that they, um, I can't

375
00:18:09.779 --> 00:18:10.559
even remember now.

376
00:18:10.619 --> 00:18:12.779
But I think it might have been Star Trek 5 and we do see it from

377
00:18:12.779 --> 00:18:14.880
time to time in Next Generation.

378
00:18:14.940 --> 00:18:17.640
So they're still around then.

379
00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:20.400
This fella here playing the captain.

380
00:18:20.460 --> 00:18:21.839
Have I seen him in other movies?

381
00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:23.160
He's a very familiar face.

382
00:18:23.220 --> 00:18:26.339
He is in Ferris Bueller's day off, which I have never seen.

383
00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:28.140
Of course he is.

384
00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:29.039
Yes, yes.

385
00:18:29.099 --> 00:18:29.819
Oh, I have.

386
00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:30.539
It was a lot of fun.

387
00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:31.140
Yeah.

388
00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:34.019
And I think he's really great.

389
00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:38.640
And there is some proper comedy to be had with the Tuesday thing.

390
00:18:38.700 --> 00:18:42.420
You know, like he goes, oh, you've come out of space doc without a

391
00:18:42.420 --> 00:18:43.559
transporter beam.

392
00:18:43.619 --> 00:18:46.740
And he says, yeah, well, it's being installed next Tuesday and

393
00:18:46.740 --> 00:18:49.380
that becomes a kind of running gag in that scene, which I think is

394
00:18:49.380 --> 00:18:49.680
nice.

395
00:18:49.740 --> 00:18:55.200
I, so this is Demora Sulu as well, we see at the helm, right?

396
00:18:55.259 --> 00:19:00.599
And in Star Trek beyond, remember in Star Trek beyond the Yorktown

397
00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:06.059
is being threatened, you know, and so, um, Sulu's husband is on

398
00:19:06.059 --> 00:19:08.640
the Yorktown with their baby daughter.

399
00:19:08.700 --> 00:19:10.920
And so I just thought, is that her name?

400
00:19:10.980 --> 00:19:14.339
They don't give her name, but I'm just assuming that they've got a

401
00:19:14.339 --> 00:19:16.319
baby daughter because it's Demorris Sulu.

402
00:19:16.380 --> 00:19:19.559
I know, because I figured the inference here was that Sulu was

403
00:19:19.559 --> 00:19:21.900
straight and had a wife and they'd had a child.

404
00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:25.740
I think, I think that was probably what, what, more and black it

405
00:19:25.740 --> 00:19:26.339
was.

406
00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:27.240
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

407
00:19:27.299 --> 00:19:27.660
Yeah.

408
00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:31.619
And in fact, Sully reacted reasonably badly to having John Cho.

409
00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:35.339
Is it John Cho who plays solo in the films, to having that version

410
00:19:35.339 --> 00:19:36.720
of Sulu be gay?

411
00:19:36.779 --> 00:19:38.579
He didn't actually like that.

412
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:39.359
George Decay.

413
00:19:39.420 --> 00:19:39.779
Yeah.

414
00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:40.619
What did I say?

415
00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:42.480
Yeah, George, she just called him Sulu.

416
00:19:42.539 --> 00:19:43.380
You called him Sue.

417
00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:43.680
Okay.

418
00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:44.339
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

419
00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:45.000
Yeah, yeah.

420
00:19:45.059 --> 00:19:47.099
The lines are blurring here some.

421
00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:51.720
Well, in fact, Sulu ship, I think, is an Excelsior class ship in

422
00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:53.460
Star Trek 6.

423
00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:58.140
Don't you remember when he comes into Voyager in flashback in

424
00:19:58.140 --> 00:19:58.559
series three?

425
00:19:58.619 --> 00:19:59.819
Yeah.

426
00:19:59.880 --> 00:20:04.740
He looks straight to the camera and goes, oh my God. doesn't he?

427
00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:06.000
Great.

428
00:20:06.059 --> 00:20:10.200
Can I make a direct comparison between this movie and the Doctor

429
00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:12.539
Who television movie that was filmed out in Vancouver?

430
00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:14.339
Ah yeah, yeah, okay.

431
00:20:14.460 --> 00:20:18.720
I think it is a problem in the Doc 2 TV movie that instead of just

432
00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:22.740
giving the new Dr. Paul McGann. his own movie that they chose to

433
00:20:22.740 --> 00:20:26.220
do a transitionary movie between Sylvester McCoy and Paul McGann.

434
00:20:26.339 --> 00:20:30.180
I think it is a problem in generations that they chose to do a

435
00:20:30.180 --> 00:20:33.119
transitionary movie between the original series and the next

436
00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:33.720
generation.

437
00:20:33.779 --> 00:20:37.319
And I think that they probably would have got off on a better foot

438
00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:39.839
had they gone straight in for something like 1st contact and just

439
00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:40.619
said, we're here.

440
00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:41.940
We're the show.

441
00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:43.500
We're a movie.

442
00:20:43.559 --> 00:20:44.940
Yeah, we're just going to go.

443
00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:46.079
Because do you know what?

444
00:20:46.140 --> 00:20:47.579
This is the best part of this movie for me.

445
00:20:48.420 --> 00:20:50.819
Yeah, I mean, the problem...

446
00:20:50.819 --> 00:20:51.960
The original series.

447
00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:55.799
Yeah, but the problem is that it's just basically the 3 people who

448
00:20:55.799 --> 00:21:01.440
are willing to do it come back and you don't get Spock or Bones

449
00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:06.299
who are obviously the 2 other important crew apart from Kirk.

450
00:21:06.359 --> 00:21:08.099
And Spock didn't want to do it.

451
00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:10.920
They toyed with the idea of getting him to direct it, didn't

452
00:21:10.920 --> 00:21:11.160
they?

453
00:21:11.220 --> 00:21:12.119
And he didn't want to do that.

454
00:21:12.180 --> 00:21:13.259
They do.

455
00:21:13.559 --> 00:21:17.279
Apparently, more Ambracco were both coming through the car park

456
00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:22.259
after Nemoy had had his conversation with Rick Berman, and he

457
00:21:22.259 --> 00:21:25.140
wouldn't even look him in the eye because he basically said, I do

458
00:21:25.140 --> 00:21:28.440
not want a bit part in this movie, and I won't direct it if I

459
00:21:28.440 --> 00:21:30.480
don't have any creative control over the movie.

460
00:21:30.539 --> 00:21:32.039
I don't just want to be given a script.

461
00:21:32.099 --> 00:21:35.099
Like, I think he had a firm creative hand in the ones he directed

462
00:21:35.099 --> 00:21:35.339
before.

463
00:21:35.400 --> 00:21:38.519
So yeah, he just washed his hands of it completely.

464
00:21:38.579 --> 00:21:43.740
And so this is a kind of a bit of a sad, like, I think there's a

465
00:21:43.740 --> 00:21:49.079
there's a very cute moment where um, Chekhov 1st sees Dimora and

466
00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:55.200
goes, I was never that young and, and the, you know, Kirk puts his

467
00:21:55.200 --> 00:21:57.420
hand on his shoulder and says, oh, you were younger.

468
00:21:57.480 --> 00:21:59.640
And all of that stuff, I think, is lovely.

469
00:21:59.700 --> 00:22:01.740
Like, it is lovely to see them again.

470
00:22:01.799 --> 00:22:07.440
But I just think like this, this film is thematically muddy.

471
00:22:07.500 --> 00:22:08.460
I don't know what it's about.

472
00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:10.920
It's probably about ageing and stuff like that.

473
00:22:10.980 --> 00:22:15.900
You know, Kirk's retired and he's dissatisfied and he, you know

474
00:22:15.900 --> 00:22:18.000
we've got the Kirk doesn't have a family.

475
00:22:18.059 --> 00:22:20.099
Which isn't it, in the movie?

476
00:22:20.160 --> 00:22:21.480
Yeah. isn't it?

477
00:22:21.539 --> 00:22:24.599
Sort of after TOS after the five-year mission.

478
00:22:24.660 --> 00:22:25.799
He's getting older.

479
00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:29.039
They kind of wanted to have a bit of a desk job at this point

480
00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:29.460
don't they?

481
00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:33.180
Yeah, stop, you know. marauding around the galaxy.

482
00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:35.700
And they give him reading glasses, remember?

483
00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:36.299
and stuff like that.

484
00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:37.200
Like they tried.

485
00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:38.279
I love that.

486
00:22:38.339 --> 00:22:38.759
So good.

487
00:22:38.819 --> 00:22:40.079
So terrific.

488
00:22:40.140 --> 00:22:42.779
Well, I think the problem with the motion picture is.

489
00:22:42.839 --> 00:22:47.160
I think that feels like, well, okay, you know, we're still in TOS

490
00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:50.579
land and we're going off an adventure and it don't quite work

491
00:22:50.579 --> 00:22:53.160
because everyone's a bit older and it's all very different.

492
00:22:53.220 --> 00:22:55.680
In the 2nd movie, they're like, okay, let's play into the fact

493
00:22:55.680 --> 00:22:57.240
that they are all a bit older.

494
00:22:57.299 --> 00:23:02.819
And the nostalgia of going off on another great adventure and that

495
00:23:02.819 --> 00:23:03.539
works a lot better.

496
00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:06.299
Well, and the films are solid.

497
00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:08.460
Like I'm people don't rate three.

498
00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:12.720
I think 3 is okay, 2 and 4, obviously, great. where they where

499
00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:13.980
they steal the ship.

500
00:23:14.339 --> 00:23:15.720
Yeah.

501
00:23:15.779 --> 00:23:19.680
Well, that trilogy is really, really terrifically strong and those

502
00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:21.660
characters are so wonderful together.

503
00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:23.819
And, you know, it's not business as usual.

504
00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:27.779
I can't think of a more of an endorsement of that crew than them

505
00:23:27.779 --> 00:23:31.619
all coming together, to defy Starfleet orders, to steal the ship

506
00:23:31.619 --> 00:23:33.720
to go and say Spark.

507
00:23:33.779 --> 00:23:34.799
It's wonderful.

508
00:23:34.859 --> 00:23:36.180
Yeah.

509
00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:40.619
We're about to have the tie here between the two, which is Guynan

510
00:23:40.680 --> 00:23:44.940
who's in both the original series scenes and Malcolm McDonald.

511
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:45.720
The nation rich ones.

512
00:23:45.779 --> 00:23:46.680
Yeah.

513
00:23:46.740 --> 00:23:51.779
Yeah, Malcolm McDowell, which I think is a solid choice.

514
00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:56.819
Because he's a good actor and also uncle to city girl for deal.

515
00:23:56.880 --> 00:23:59.220
Yeah, I must say. strange.

516
00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:01.619
Apparently they have Christmas together.

517
00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:02.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

518
00:24:03.539 --> 00:24:08.099
But something goes, we'll talk a bit more about sorry later on, I'm

519
00:24:08.099 --> 00:24:10.019
sure, because there isn't a lot of this movie.

520
00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:11.880
Something don't quite...

521
00:24:11.940 --> 00:24:14.640
I think they're going for a con and it ain't no con.

522
00:24:14.700 --> 00:24:15.420
No.

523
00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:20.099
And I think that the films tend to go for these villains, don't

524
00:24:20.099 --> 00:24:20.279
they?

525
00:24:20.339 --> 00:24:25.920
So Star Trek 3 has, um, Christopher Watts's face, um, you know, the

526
00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:28.380
Doc Brown from...

527
00:24:28.380 --> 00:24:29.460
Oh, Christopher Plummer, isn't it?

528
00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:30.000
No, no, no.

529
00:24:30.059 --> 00:24:31.619
Christopher Plummer is in Star Trek six.

530
00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:34.019
Christopher Lloyd is in Star Trek 3.

531
00:24:34.259 --> 00:24:35.640
Oh, yeah.

532
00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:37.319
Do you know what?

533
00:24:37.380 --> 00:24:39.779
He does everything but say, great Scott, doesn't he?

534
00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:40.740
He's so good.

535
00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:44.519
And, and, you know, you've got Ricardo Montalban, obviously, in

536
00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:45.240
Star Trek 2.

537
00:24:45.420 --> 00:24:48.779
And so you do have these big villains in the Star Trek films.

538
00:24:48.779 --> 00:24:56.460
And of these films do we have, there are 3, uh, there are 3 next, 4

539
00:24:56.460 --> 00:25:00.119
next generation films, 3 of which have big villains.

540
00:25:00.180 --> 00:25:03.240
So you've got Or do they two?

541
00:25:03.299 --> 00:25:04.200
I guess two.

542
00:25:04.259 --> 00:25:06.180
Well, no, no, no, they do.

543
00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:09.240
I mean, you get the ball queen in 1st contact, you get the fellow

544
00:25:09.240 --> 00:25:10.079
with the stretchy face.

545
00:25:10.140 --> 00:25:11.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

546
00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:12.900
Abraham, I mean, all.

547
00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:14.339
He's a great actor.

548
00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:17.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah I know, but the character is so forgettable.

549
00:25:17.579 --> 00:25:18.299
Yeah.

550
00:25:18.359 --> 00:25:21.599
And then you get Australia's Eric Banner in Nemesis.

551
00:25:21.900 --> 00:25:23.519
Who's that?

552
00:25:23.579 --> 00:25:27.960
He's Nero, the Romulan guy with the big shit.

553
00:25:28.019 --> 00:25:30.299
No, I'm thinking of the guy who plays the young Picard.

554
00:25:30.359 --> 00:25:31.559
You know, the really famous actor.

555
00:25:31.619 --> 00:25:33.480
Oh, yeah, no, maybe that's the next film.

556
00:25:33.539 --> 00:25:34.859
Maybe that's not nemesis.

557
00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:37.680
Oh, it's pretty Tom Hardy, my celebrity boyfriend.

558
00:25:38.039 --> 00:25:40.079
Oh, beautiful.

559
00:25:40.140 --> 00:25:40.500
Yeah.

560
00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:42.359
Well, he's too skinny in that film.

561
00:25:42.420 --> 00:25:42.900
But you know what?

562
00:25:42.900 --> 00:25:43.619
Bulks up later.

563
00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:46.619
None of them are as memorable, though.

564
00:25:46.680 --> 00:25:49.380
I don't think. something just doesn't quite click.

565
00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:53.039
You get old Cumberbatch, don't you, in the 2nd of the winter

566
00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:53.700
movies?

567
00:25:53.759 --> 00:25:54.779
Yeah, yeah.

568
00:25:54.839 --> 00:25:55.500
Shocking.

569
00:25:55.559 --> 00:26:00.180
But it's not really, I mean, it sort of works with, it works with

570
00:26:00.180 --> 00:26:04.200
Montalban, and that's a shame because it's not really how Star

571
00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:05.039
Trek works.

572
00:26:05.099 --> 00:26:09.779
And so the films end up being like just big, dumb adventure films

573
00:26:09.779 --> 00:26:13.559
and that's fun and it's fun seeing the accrue to it.

574
00:26:13.619 --> 00:26:17.099
But Star Trek 4 isn't a big, dumb adventure film, Star Trek 6

575
00:26:17.099 --> 00:26:18.720
isn't a big, dumb adventure film.

576
00:26:18.779 --> 00:26:22.079
You know, occasionally they remember that it's supposed to be a

577
00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:23.099
Mount Star Trek.

578
00:26:23.339 --> 00:26:25.079
But you know what?

579
00:26:25.140 --> 00:26:27.960
I think half the problem as well with this being a next generation

580
00:26:27.960 --> 00:26:32.579
movie is, you go back and watch TOS and it's often poorly staged.

581
00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:34.680
There is a lot of action in TOS.

582
00:26:34.740 --> 00:26:38.460
But they don't hold back from, you know, fight sequences and

583
00:26:38.460 --> 00:26:39.900
things like, remember, the doomsday machine.

584
00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:43.019
It was just full of, you know, shuttles being eaten and things

585
00:26:43.019 --> 00:26:43.319
like this.

586
00:26:43.380 --> 00:26:47.460
Next generation, it was attempting to be a bit more cerebral and

587
00:26:47.460 --> 00:26:51.000
talking. wasn't it, you know, character drama and things like

588
00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:51.240
that.

589
00:26:51.299 --> 00:26:54.480
So suddenly they've got this massive stage that they can do on

590
00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:55.319
this big budget.

591
00:26:55.319 --> 00:26:57.359
They don't feel very next gen.

592
00:26:57.480 --> 00:26:59.160
No, no.

593
00:26:59.220 --> 00:27:02.579
And I think the thing with NextGen too is that NextGen was a

594
00:27:02.579 --> 00:27:06.839
successful TV series in its own lifetime, whereas the original

595
00:27:06.839 --> 00:27:11.099
series becomes successful in syndication, which is why it only

596
00:27:11.099 --> 00:27:13.200
lasts for 3 years.

597
00:27:13.259 --> 00:27:19.859
Um, And, you know, we're just used to a certain level of kind of

598
00:27:19.859 --> 00:27:21.299
boredom watching.

599
00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:25.019
It just seems kind of, it does seem weird to have so much action

600
00:27:25.019 --> 00:27:26.519
and it's kind of nice.

601
00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:30.839
Although I've got to say, you know, in in the 2nd off of this

602
00:27:30.839 --> 00:27:33.960
movie, which does attempt to get a little bit more thoughtful and

603
00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:39.240
symbolic and characterful and henceforth is extremely boring.

604
00:27:39.299 --> 00:27:43.259
The bit that I absolutely love is when the enterprise crashes

605
00:27:43.259 --> 00:27:47.700
which is the most un TNG like sequence I can think of, but it's

606
00:27:47.700 --> 00:27:48.539
absolutely incredible.

607
00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:49.619
Yeah.

608
00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:50.339
Yeah.

609
00:27:50.519 --> 00:27:53.400
Yeah, it's it is funny, isn't it?

610
00:27:53.460 --> 00:27:58.319
It is, I think this film really, really suffers from not allowing

611
00:27:58.319 --> 00:28:00.240
the show to have a rest and then come back.

612
00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:05.819
And, you know, I think you said to me before, or I must have read

613
00:28:05.819 --> 00:28:10.740
on memory alpha, that, that, um, more and Braga actually think

614
00:28:10.740 --> 00:28:15.480
that all good things went better. say that.

615
00:28:15.539 --> 00:28:16.619
They said that, yeah.

616
00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:18.779
But they said, why didn't we make that as the movie?

617
00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:21.599
That's more sophisticated storytelling than we do here.

618
00:28:21.660 --> 00:28:26.339
Like, well, I think the reason is that it's such fun, wank.

619
00:28:26.460 --> 00:28:29.880
You know, like what is a normal person going to even make of that

620
00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:32.460
when they go to see it?

621
00:28:32.519 --> 00:28:33.660
It's about the next generation.

622
00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:35.940
August Things is about the next generation.

623
00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:37.619
It's a celebration of the next generation.

624
00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:40.680
I know, it needs to be the final episode of Star Trek, the Next

625
00:28:40.680 --> 00:28:41.099
Generation.

626
00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:42.539
They do need to do something different.

627
00:28:42.599 --> 00:28:47.160
They need to go off because this is the 1st film in a series in a

628
00:28:47.160 --> 00:28:47.700
way.

629
00:28:47.700 --> 00:28:52.500
And I think there is a problem with, so we've killed Kirk, by the

630
00:28:52.500 --> 00:28:52.740
way.

631
00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:57.059
Well, so this would have been an incredibly unsatisfying depth

632
00:28:57.059 --> 00:28:58.140
because we didn't even see it.

633
00:28:58.200 --> 00:29:02.220
It was off camera and it's just their reactions to it.

634
00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:03.900
I think it is a better day.

635
00:29:03.900 --> 00:29:04.380
Somehow.

636
00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:08.220
Well, I was about to say, somehow, the death that we actually see

637
00:29:08.220 --> 00:29:10.259
later in the movie is even worse.

638
00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:13.619
Whereas, I mean, this one kind of works, doesn't it?

639
00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:20.460
Because they're doing it to save people and Captain Kirk, who is

640
00:29:20.460 --> 00:29:24.299
feeling unhappy about not being a captain anymore, gets to be a

641
00:29:24.299 --> 00:29:26.460
captain for one last heroic time.

642
00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:27.599
All right.

643
00:29:27.660 --> 00:29:31.440
So here we are on the Enterprise. 78 years later.

644
00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:36.539
Now, I always feel like they just wanted a jolly on a ship for 5

645
00:29:36.539 --> 00:29:36.960
days.

646
00:29:37.019 --> 00:29:39.480
I was, oh, less than amount on a boat, you know, we'll film

647
00:29:39.480 --> 00:29:39.839
something.

648
00:29:39.900 --> 00:29:43.619
Well, I think that this is a very clear statement that this isn't

649
00:29:43.619 --> 00:29:48.119
a TV show now because we could never, ever have afforded to do

650
00:29:48.119 --> 00:29:51.180
this in a 1000000 years on the sort of budget that Star Trek, the

651
00:29:51.180 --> 00:29:52.079
Next Generation, had.

652
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:55.440
So they're very, very definitely showing us these characters for

653
00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:58.140
the 1st time in an environment that they could never, ever have

654
00:29:58.140 --> 00:29:59.339
afforded to realise.

655
00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:01.140
And it's impressive.

656
00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:02.759
I think the scene is shocking.

657
00:30:02.819 --> 00:30:05.400
Like, Jesus is horrible.

658
00:30:05.460 --> 00:30:08.279
But like, like, okay, fine. if that's your statement.

659
00:30:08.339 --> 00:30:11.220
We want to show something visually that we can never do on our

660
00:30:11.220 --> 00:30:14.759
original budget, but then find a creative reason to do it.

661
00:30:14.819 --> 00:30:16.019
No, that's right.

662
00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:18.119
But instead they're just hazing wharf.

663
00:30:18.180 --> 00:30:21.240
And this thing, this sort of bullshit thing with Riker reading out

664
00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:22.079
this proclamation.

665
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:25.799
And it's the usual Star Trek thing of, you know, you are the

666
00:30:25.799 --> 00:30:28.980
finest crew that it's ever been my honour to serve with and all of

667
00:30:28.980 --> 00:30:30.059
that sort of bullshit.

668
00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:33.539
And it's so crap and it's so kind of...

669
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:36.660
Oh my god, get that, get the plank out, computer, remove the

670
00:30:36.660 --> 00:30:37.079
plank.

671
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:41.579
It's like you always said, every time TNG tries to be funny or 90s

672
00:30:41.579 --> 00:30:42.539
track tries to be funny.

673
00:30:42.599 --> 00:30:44.160
It's fairly agonising.

674
00:30:44.220 --> 00:30:47.819
And may I say they make that leap over to the movies with

675
00:30:47.819 --> 00:30:48.779
spectacular success.

676
00:30:48.839 --> 00:30:49.619
Right.

677
00:30:49.680 --> 00:30:53.700
These starters you mean to go on, everything that thinks it's

678
00:30:53.700 --> 00:30:56.880
going to be funny in this movie is instead going to be butt

679
00:30:56.880 --> 00:30:58.440
clenchingly embarrassing.

680
00:30:58.500 --> 00:31:03.119
Do you know what I think is the only funny moment in all of these

681
00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:06.660
TNG movies is the bit where they left.

682
00:31:06.779 --> 00:31:07.980
No.

683
00:31:08.039 --> 00:31:11.460
It's the bit where they left the camera, Marina, in 1st contact.

684
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:14.700
She had a few gins and they said, oh, quick, she's pissed.

685
00:31:14.759 --> 00:31:15.539
Keep filming her.

686
00:31:15.599 --> 00:31:17.700
She's so funny.

687
00:31:17.700 --> 00:31:19.559
It's just her absolutely rat-assed.

688
00:31:19.619 --> 00:31:21.059
And she's hitting.

689
00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:22.859
She's hitting Riker.

690
00:31:23.220 --> 00:31:25.319
Oh, it's brilliant.

691
00:31:25.380 --> 00:31:28.920
But any other comedy, especially in this movie, especially

692
00:31:28.920 --> 00:31:30.299
anything featuring data.

693
00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:33.180
Oh, yeah, it was pretty agonising.

694
00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:36.480
Although there are 2 bits that Data does that I secretly really

695
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:40.680
like, even though I don't think either the writing or Brent's

696
00:31:40.680 --> 00:31:42.779
performance are very good.

697
00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:46.680
Are we supposed to be just enjoying the fact that they're having a

698
00:31:46.680 --> 00:31:47.460
bit of fun here?

699
00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:48.420
Is that the idea of this?

700
00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:51.000
Yeah, yeah, but they're having fun in the world's most miserable

701
00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:56.279
and kind of, well, I don't know, just such a, I don't know.

702
00:31:56.339 --> 00:31:57.900
Why can't they have fun in a farm?

703
00:31:58.500 --> 00:32:02.039
I'm about to contradict myself because I think Anson Tilly runs at

704
00:32:02.039 --> 00:32:02.400
the party.

705
00:32:02.759 --> 00:32:06.000
When Gates McFadden's pushed in sort of water.

706
00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:08.519
Lick on earth face. hilarious.

707
00:32:08.579 --> 00:32:09.779
It's pretty great.

708
00:32:10.680 --> 00:32:13.079
She deserves it anyway.

709
00:32:13.140 --> 00:32:13.740
Fuck off.

710
00:32:13.799 --> 00:32:15.539
She's laughing when Worf gets.

711
00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:16.319
Why is it not funny?

712
00:32:16.380 --> 00:32:19.740
It's funny when Wolf gets knocked pushed off the thing, but not

713
00:32:19.740 --> 00:32:21.480
funny when Gates gets pushed off the thing.

714
00:32:21.539 --> 00:32:22.680
I think.

715
00:32:22.740 --> 00:32:25.079
Why couldn't a wharf have just gone, computer, delete the boat?

716
00:32:25.140 --> 00:32:26.880
Then they would all be in the water.

717
00:32:26.940 --> 00:32:28.140
They'd all fall in the water.

718
00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:28.980
That would have been great.

719
00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:33.480
I think I think that it's retract the plank, not remove the

720
00:32:33.480 --> 00:32:33.900
plank.

721
00:32:33.960 --> 00:32:38.220
Can that ease him trying to breathe some life into that deadline?

722
00:32:38.339 --> 00:32:42.720
you know, by camping it up slightly, which I think is sort of, you

723
00:32:42.720 --> 00:32:45.299
know, I do find it baffling though, because you know what?

724
00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:47.940
You and me have done a couple of comedies written by Ronald D

725
00:32:47.940 --> 00:32:50.039
Moore, and he can be very funny.

726
00:32:50.099 --> 00:32:52.019
He can rotate fun.

727
00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:54.960
He wrote the house of pork, looking football market in all the

728
00:32:54.960 --> 00:32:56.400
wrong places, in the cards.

729
00:32:56.460 --> 00:32:57.960
He's a funny writer.

730
00:32:58.079 --> 00:33:02.640
Yeah, I think there's just the whole next gen thing here making it

731
00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:03.059
not funny.

732
00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:08.279
I mean, you can clearly... clearly see that that was not Gates

733
00:33:08.279 --> 00:33:09.960
McFadden for you.

734
00:33:10.019 --> 00:33:10.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

735
00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:14.460
Marina, when she looks, when she looks at data, they're all

736
00:33:14.460 --> 00:33:17.160
looking at data, but the look on Marina's face is pretty great.

737
00:33:17.220 --> 00:33:21.000
I'll give her that That was not funny.

738
00:33:22.019 --> 00:33:25.619
By all accounts, those weren't actors on the boat.

739
00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:26.700
That was the crew of the ship.

740
00:33:26.759 --> 00:33:27.960
Oh wow.

741
00:33:28.019 --> 00:33:28.440
Okay.

742
00:33:28.500 --> 00:33:30.059
Starstream for the day.

743
00:33:30.119 --> 00:33:31.140
That's pretty awesome.

744
00:33:31.200 --> 00:33:31.980
Just save a bit of money.

745
00:33:32.039 --> 00:33:33.180
They didn't want to take any extras.

746
00:33:36.359 --> 00:33:38.400
I mean, it all looks...

747
00:33:38.460 --> 00:33:39.720
I mean it does all look very impressive.

748
00:33:39.779 --> 00:33:41.279
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

749
00:33:41.339 --> 00:33:42.180
But what is it?

750
00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:43.019
What is it about?

751
00:33:44.519 --> 00:33:46.920
And so there's this too.

752
00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:51.779
Like, that speech here about, because, what, it's comparing the

753
00:33:51.779 --> 00:33:54.240
Enterprise Our Enterprise to this ship.

754
00:33:54.299 --> 00:33:57.420
And he's just finished saying how wonderful it would be to not be

755
00:33:57.420 --> 00:33:58.619
contactable.

756
00:33:58.680 --> 00:34:02.819
You know, you can't be reached when you're on this ship and then

757
00:34:02.819 --> 00:34:03.900
he gets this message.

758
00:34:03.960 --> 00:34:08.460
And I think this message, again, is a terrible mistake.

759
00:34:08.460 --> 00:34:12.119
And I don't know why they...

760
00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:13.500
I'm getting the message about his family.

761
00:34:13.559 --> 00:34:14.400
Oh, it's awful.

762
00:34:14.460 --> 00:34:17.340
No, I'm telling you what, they do it because they need a reason

763
00:34:17.340 --> 00:34:22.500
when he goes in the nexus to want something so he'll stay there.

764
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:22.800
Yeah.

765
00:34:22.920 --> 00:34:24.840
But it just feels so manipulative.

766
00:34:24.900 --> 00:34:25.980
Yeah.

767
00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:28.920
And I think I think he's terrible in it.

768
00:34:28.980 --> 00:34:31.800
Like, I think that Stuart's performance is...

769
00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:32.340
Yeah, do you know what?

770
00:34:32.340 --> 00:34:37.500
That Patrick Stewart, and they actually say in the commentary, I

771
00:34:37.500 --> 00:34:39.840
can't believe he cried in this thing, like, we never wrote for him

772
00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:41.400
to be crying in this scene.

773
00:34:41.460 --> 00:34:42.119
Why did he go this far?

774
00:34:42.179 --> 00:34:42.960
Yeah.

775
00:34:43.019 --> 00:34:46.440
I think he's like, well, I'm in a movie now. you know, I got to

776
00:34:46.440 --> 00:34:47.699
show some serious emotion.

777
00:34:48.300 --> 00:34:51.840
I like I like Deanna's reaction here too.

778
00:34:51.900 --> 00:34:55.139
Marina's reaction because and we don't need to be told why she

779
00:34:55.139 --> 00:34:56.400
notices something.

780
00:34:56.760 --> 00:35:00.179
You know, that's just a little reminder and it is her successfully

781
00:35:00.179 --> 00:35:04.619
using her empathic abilities instead of just saying, I'm sorry

782
00:35:04.619 --> 00:35:07.380
Captain, I'm afraid I can't, you know, read them at this distance

783
00:35:07.380 --> 00:35:10.800
or whatever, they seem to be being deceptive or they seem to be

784
00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:13.679
being very angry or something, you know, like she's actually

785
00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:15.300
properly detecting something.

786
00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:19.440
She plays it well, but the fact that he's there staring off camera

787
00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:21.239
looking like he's about to fall to pieces.

788
00:35:21.300 --> 00:35:23.940
I mean, I think anyone could pick up on the fact that he's just

789
00:35:24.179 --> 00:35:27.480
but I think she notices it from a distance in a way that I think

790
00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:29.699
kind of just reinforces that she can do that.

791
00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:32.760
And I did quite like that because it's so rarely acknowledged in

792
00:35:32.760 --> 00:35:33.480
the show properly.

793
00:35:33.900 --> 00:35:38.940
We're about to head on to, uh, the end of going for a 2nd now.

794
00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:42.179
And I've got to say, I do think it was a massive mistake for them

795
00:35:42.179 --> 00:35:45.960
to just keep using the standing sets at Paramount.

796
00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:47.760
It really was.

797
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:49.980
I really think they should have, they should have started this

798
00:35:49.980 --> 00:35:54.960
movie with a brand new like a cinematic enterprise with, you know

799
00:35:54.960 --> 00:35:57.000
cinema style lighting.

800
00:35:57.059 --> 00:35:59.760
This, they've made a few adjustments to this.

801
00:35:59.820 --> 00:36:02.099
But they light it in such a strange way.

802
00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:07.619
Yeah, if you're trying to recapture that feeling of the series and

803
00:36:07.619 --> 00:36:10.920
bridge the gap, then lighting it in this very kind of moody way.

804
00:36:10.980 --> 00:36:13.500
Well, it doesn't feel anything like the next generation.

805
00:36:13.559 --> 00:36:16.980
Well, and also the trouble is that it's not a very good set and

806
00:36:16.980 --> 00:36:21.420
from where, like when you look at it from above, whenever they do

807
00:36:21.420 --> 00:36:24.360
a high shot on the bridge, you can see all of the space that's

808
00:36:24.360 --> 00:36:26.880
purely there to wheel the cameras around.

809
00:36:26.940 --> 00:36:32.760
And so here he's put some additional consoles and things in there

810
00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:34.380
and there's more extras and stuff.

811
00:36:34.500 --> 00:36:39.719
I mean, I think, look, the problem is, that's how the TV series

812
00:36:39.719 --> 00:36:40.980
should always have been there.

813
00:36:41.039 --> 00:36:42.239
It should always work like that.

814
00:36:42.300 --> 00:36:42.480
Yeah.

815
00:36:42.539 --> 00:36:44.219
Yeah, but it didn't.

816
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:46.619
So it feels jarring, you know?

817
00:36:46.679 --> 00:36:49.920
And especially like the lighting in the 10 forward sequences, which

818
00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:50.820
I think is really good.

819
00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:53.880
It just doesn't feel like 10 forwards to me because it never

820
00:36:53.880 --> 00:36:54.360
looked like that.

821
00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:57.840
No, but it's the same kind of lighting that you still get on

822
00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:01.739
discovery where you actually get sort of sunlight streaming in

823
00:37:01.739 --> 00:37:04.139
through the windows and stuff. lighting coming in through the

824
00:37:04.139 --> 00:37:04.440
window.

825
00:37:04.500 --> 00:37:05.159
It's gorgeous.

826
00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:05.639
Yeah.

827
00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:09.719
See, it doesn't matter here on this ship because we've never been

828
00:37:09.719 --> 00:37:10.139
here before.

829
00:37:10.199 --> 00:37:11.340
They can like how they like it.

830
00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:14.579
And it's just the same old set that they've been using for 7 years

831
00:37:14.579 --> 00:37:15.239
as well.

832
00:37:15.300 --> 00:37:18.059
You know, they just move a few flats around and stuff and it's

833
00:37:18.059 --> 00:37:19.019
just the same as everything else.

834
00:37:19.079 --> 00:37:21.239
It's just a bit of a minute where they have a phase of fire

835
00:37:21.239 --> 00:37:23.639
because, you know, they do that thing where they duck beyond a

836
00:37:23.639 --> 00:37:24.840
console, someone's shoes.

837
00:37:24.900 --> 00:37:26.579
They don't be on a console.

838
00:37:26.639 --> 00:37:28.860
And I thought, they're even doing the action fucking sequences

839
00:37:28.860 --> 00:37:29.760
like the TV show.

840
00:37:29.820 --> 00:37:32.159
Yeah, no, that's a little bit later, isn't it?

841
00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:34.980
When they come to rescue, you, when they come to rescue Geordian

842
00:37:34.980 --> 00:37:35.460
Data.

843
00:37:35.519 --> 00:37:37.800
I think they just come across dead bodies here.

844
00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:43.199
But, you know, that big girder thing we've seen 100s of times

845
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:48.780
before, like all of these sort of bits and pieces are hugely

846
00:37:48.780 --> 00:37:49.500
familiar.

847
00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:53.880
And so even though they do have a big budget, they're, I've just

848
00:37:53.880 --> 00:37:54.300
done.

849
00:37:54.780 --> 00:37:58.139
I just did 1st aid, just to interrupt myself.

850
00:37:58.199 --> 00:38:02.099
I did a 1st aid course, just a week ago, and it just worried me

851
00:38:02.099 --> 00:38:05.099
that that guy was pinned down and that they just picked the thing

852
00:38:05.099 --> 00:38:05.639
up off him.

853
00:38:05.699 --> 00:38:08.760
That is the one doing. you should never do.

854
00:38:08.820 --> 00:38:10.199
That's right.

855
00:38:10.260 --> 00:38:11.940
Don't do that, kids at home.

856
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:15.059
I mean, I guess you've got a doctor there, so maybe it's okay.

857
00:38:16.260 --> 00:38:20.460
And may I say, she gets so, so little to do in this episode.

858
00:38:20.519 --> 00:38:23.880
Thank goodness she's around, just milling about of a tricorder in

859
00:38:23.880 --> 00:38:24.239
this thing.

860
00:38:24.300 --> 00:38:27.059
There's a few of these enterprise crew, you know, that don't get

861
00:38:27.059 --> 00:38:28.079
any screen time at all.

862
00:38:28.139 --> 00:38:29.280
No.

863
00:38:29.340 --> 00:38:30.960
And that's the other thing too.

864
00:38:31.019 --> 00:38:38.099
Why this show even more than original Trek is a bad fit for movies

865
00:38:38.099 --> 00:38:43.440
because you've got this giant cast and ordinarily you would just

866
00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:46.440
feature one or 2 of them or, you know, you'd have a Geordie

867
00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:48.719
centric episode or a wharf centric episode or whatever.

868
00:38:48.780 --> 00:38:50.820
You're not used to me before.

869
00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:52.739
You're not ever gonna get that again, are you?

870
00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:53.820
No.

871
00:38:53.880 --> 00:38:54.539
That's right.

872
00:38:54.599 --> 00:38:58.800
And they kind of settle on, obviously, Picard, because it's

873
00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:01.500
Patrick Stewart, and they settle on giving him a big role and

874
00:39:01.500 --> 00:39:01.860
data.

875
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:04.019
Yeah, that's that's the 2 biggies in the movies.

876
00:39:04.079 --> 00:39:06.659
And everyone else is called sort of peripheral.

877
00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:09.000
Weirdly enough, is everybody else that gets all the best scenes.

878
00:39:09.780 --> 00:39:15.300
So this, so we're picking up on something that was originally in

879
00:39:15.300 --> 00:39:16.619
Brothers, wasn't it?

880
00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:20.280
And then that became a thing in dissent.

881
00:39:20.340 --> 00:39:22.440
So I think all the emotion.

882
00:39:22.500 --> 00:39:25.800
Yeah, so I think we watched them retrieve the emotion chip from

883
00:39:25.800 --> 00:39:27.420
law, didn't we, in dissent?

884
00:39:27.480 --> 00:39:30.239
And so this is a different emotion chip.

885
00:39:30.300 --> 00:39:33.780
This is a movie design emotion ship.

886
00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:36.480
Um, and I think...

887
00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:39.480
Oh, they so enamoured with data, though, that, like, because when

888
00:39:39.480 --> 00:39:42.119
we watched descent, we kind of acknowledged that that didn't work

889
00:39:42.119 --> 00:39:45.780
and spinal performance didn't work when he was there.

890
00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:47.880
I'm like, stop it, stop it, stop it.

891
00:39:47.940 --> 00:39:50.400
You know, it was all very camping over the top and a bit

892
00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:50.880
ridiculous.

893
00:39:51.480 --> 00:39:55.559
I'm wondering if they're just so enamoured with data and Brent

894
00:39:55.559 --> 00:39:56.219
Spider.

895
00:39:56.280 --> 00:39:58.380
They think and they say in the commentary, you know, you can

896
00:39:58.380 --> 00:40:01.320
always rely on Spiner, whatever you give him, he's going to do

897
00:40:01.320 --> 00:40:02.280
something interesting with it.

898
00:40:02.340 --> 00:40:05.159
Well, I think this movie actually belies that point.

899
00:40:05.219 --> 00:40:06.360
Yeah, I agree.

900
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:09.659
I think look, I mean, he's a beloved character.

901
00:40:09.719 --> 00:40:11.579
He's the breakout character, isn't he?

902
00:40:11.639 --> 00:40:13.619
Like he's the one that I would say, yes.

903
00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:13.980
Yeah.

904
00:40:14.039 --> 00:40:18.900
And he's not, I don't think he's the best performer. do you know

905
00:40:18.900 --> 00:40:20.099
what I mean by any stretch?

906
00:40:20.159 --> 00:40:23.579
But, you know, like he does do a lot of things and he is a super

907
00:40:23.579 --> 00:40:24.480
interesting character.

908
00:40:24.900 --> 00:40:28.260
But what they do here. you know why he's so likeable?

909
00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:32.460
He's so likeable because he's so childlike. so innocent.

910
00:40:32.519 --> 00:40:36.360
And like, you know, the humour that comes out of it is often

911
00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:39.059
inadvertent and he doesn't understand things and things like

912
00:40:39.059 --> 00:40:44.400
suddenly he's very knowing and sarcastic and condescending and

913
00:40:44.400 --> 00:40:46.380
just all of those things that you hate in people.

914
00:40:46.440 --> 00:40:48.239
And I'm like, oh, I think you would take a character.

915
00:40:48.300 --> 00:40:49.860
I think he's amazing.

916
00:40:49.860 --> 00:40:53.820
You take a character who is so likeable and make him so

917
00:40:53.820 --> 00:40:54.480
unlikeable.

918
00:40:54.539 --> 00:40:57.659
It's like the Scott Bacular effect in Star Trek Enterprise.

919
00:40:58.019 --> 00:41:02.219
He's really obnoxious and that is not what we're here for.

920
00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:04.559
And so it wrecks state his character.

921
00:41:04.619 --> 00:41:07.860
And one of my favourite things is the way that they deal with the

922
00:41:07.860 --> 00:41:13.800
emotion chip. in 1st contact where I can't even remember.

923
00:41:13.860 --> 00:41:15.420
Is it when Alice Creek's coming onto him?

924
00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:21.960
No, no, so data says something to Picard about how he's scared and

925
00:41:21.960 --> 00:41:28.079
Picardo Riker and the response is why don't you consider

926
00:41:28.079 --> 00:41:29.699
deactivating your emotion ship?

927
00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:32.579
And so he just tilts his head very briefly to one side.

928
00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:34.380
We hear an electronic noise.

929
00:41:35.219 --> 00:41:37.320
He's turning off.

930
00:41:37.380 --> 00:41:41.039
That's them acknowledging the fact that this is, in fact, doing

931
00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:42.239
stupid.

932
00:41:42.300 --> 00:41:43.260
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

933
00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:47.159
And like, I think there is a way of him playing it where he

934
00:41:47.159 --> 00:41:51.119
discovers emotions and stuff, but it's that big camp thing that he

935
00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:54.480
does here and that he's called upon to do, which is just

936
00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:55.500
obnoxious.

937
00:41:55.559 --> 00:41:59.340
You know, I think that having data confront emotions in a

938
00:41:59.340 --> 00:42:04.679
childlike and amazed way. incredible.

939
00:42:04.739 --> 00:42:06.599
Imagine him having his 1st stiffy.

940
00:42:06.659 --> 00:42:07.380
Like, that would be amazing.

941
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:08.340
You know, he doesn't know.

942
00:42:08.340 --> 00:42:11.760
No, he had sex with Tashi R.

943
00:42:11.820 --> 00:42:15.539
He wasn't in fact pushing ropes and that, as we know.

944
00:42:15.659 --> 00:42:22.260
Oh, do you know, they say this is 10 forwards about how many, this

945
00:42:22.260 --> 00:42:24.840
is how many extras they would have liked.

946
00:42:24.900 --> 00:42:25.860
Yeah.

947
00:42:25.860 --> 00:42:28.199
So this is actually kind of cute.

948
00:42:28.260 --> 00:42:31.679
And I think he overplays the I hate this thing.

949
00:42:31.739 --> 00:42:35.519
But what's funny... is I'm just dreadful.

950
00:42:35.579 --> 00:42:39.360
But what I think is cute is when he just turns to her and in his

951
00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:42.480
normal voice says, you know, yes, another one please.

952
00:42:42.539 --> 00:42:44.340
Like, he actually dials it down.

953
00:42:44.340 --> 00:42:46.019
And I think that's really funny.

954
00:42:46.079 --> 00:42:48.179
He overplays it in a way that's obnoxious.

955
00:42:48.239 --> 00:42:49.079
But you know what as well?

956
00:42:49.139 --> 00:42:52.199
They still need him to deliver the exposition in this movie

957
00:42:52.199 --> 00:42:52.559
right?

958
00:42:52.619 --> 00:42:56.039
So there are sequences where he's being sarcastic and stupid and

959
00:42:56.039 --> 00:42:57.599
silly and playing with tricorders.

960
00:42:57.659 --> 00:42:59.639
And then he just suddenly turns into normal data.

961
00:42:59.699 --> 00:43:00.960
All of a sudden.

962
00:43:01.019 --> 00:43:02.820
And even that's even more weird.

963
00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:05.940
You know, it's like he's got split personality syndrome.

964
00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:07.559
Yeah, no, no, no.

965
00:43:07.619 --> 00:43:08.340
It doesn't work at all.

966
00:43:08.400 --> 00:43:11.280
But I do like the way he says please there in his normal data

967
00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:12.059
voice.

968
00:43:12.119 --> 00:43:13.980
You know, he does want another one because he wants to experience

969
00:43:13.980 --> 00:43:14.880
something terrible.

970
00:43:14.940 --> 00:43:18.780
So this is, this scene is actually not as oddly lit as I thought

971
00:43:18.780 --> 00:43:23.880
but the yellow lighting that is coming in, and particularly in the

972
00:43:23.880 --> 00:43:28.320
the, inter, you know, the, the conversation between numb Soren and

973
00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:28.980
Picard.

974
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:30.360
See, everything's very yellow.

975
00:43:30.360 --> 00:43:31.500
And Soren's...

976
00:43:31.559 --> 00:43:33.659
Do you remember where the light came from in the series?

977
00:43:33.719 --> 00:43:35.460
It was all from the tables. wasn't it?

978
00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:38.940
They were all white and it was always lit from below.

979
00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:41.039
Oh no, but there's heaps of key lighting.

980
00:43:41.099 --> 00:43:43.380
Part of the problem with Star Trek, the next generation, is

981
00:43:43.380 --> 00:43:46.679
there's such strong key lighting that everything looks really flat

982
00:43:46.679 --> 00:43:50.579
and there's very rarely the shadows in the shot that you're

983
00:43:50.579 --> 00:43:51.059
getting here.

984
00:43:51.119 --> 00:43:53.219
And so I think this looks better.

985
00:43:53.340 --> 00:43:55.739
Yeah, oh, this looks a million.

986
00:43:55.800 --> 00:43:57.000
This is lit brilliantly.

987
00:43:57.059 --> 00:43:58.920
It just doesn't feel like the next generation.

988
00:43:58.980 --> 00:44:02.519
Yeah, but like, you know, the...

989
00:44:02.519 --> 00:44:04.739
Do you see what I'm saying about, sort of the confused nature of

990
00:44:04.739 --> 00:44:05.460
this film, though.

991
00:44:05.519 --> 00:44:09.599
Like, it's confusing in that even down to the uniforms.

992
00:44:09.719 --> 00:44:11.699
Some people are wearing next generation uniforms.

993
00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:14.039
Some people are wearing deep space 9 uniforms.

994
00:44:14.099 --> 00:44:15.300
Well, and they swap.

995
00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:20.340
I mean, like eventually we get a scene with both Picard and Data

996
00:44:20.340 --> 00:44:23.460
in the Deep Space 9 uniforms as well.

997
00:44:23.519 --> 00:44:24.539
And is this way?

998
00:44:24.539 --> 00:44:28.380
It's a movie that can't quite let go of original series and yet

999
00:44:28.380 --> 00:44:30.840
wants to focus on the next generation.

1000
00:44:30.900 --> 00:44:34.320
It's serious that wants to do a transition between the old sets

1001
00:44:34.320 --> 00:44:36.719
and the new, and it's just, it's just weird.

1002
00:44:36.780 --> 00:44:41.519
It's a weird amalgam of, and I just feel like having a more solid

1003
00:44:41.519 --> 00:44:43.380
mission statement of, let's just do a movie.

1004
00:44:43.380 --> 00:44:46.440
Yeah, which is what they do the 2nd time and it works very well.

1005
00:44:46.440 --> 00:44:51.300
And that manages to be an action movie and also to be about Star

1006
00:44:51.300 --> 00:44:52.260
Trek too.

1007
00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:56.460
So I think that's pretty good and manages to have like a genuine

1008
00:44:56.460 --> 00:44:56.880
threat.

1009
00:44:56.940 --> 00:45:01.320
It manages to have impressive action set pieces, a decent villain

1010
00:45:01.320 --> 00:45:04.320
you know, and actually some pretty good humour.

1011
00:45:04.380 --> 00:45:05.820
I remember when Robert Picardo turns up.

1012
00:45:05.880 --> 00:45:06.960
That's quite a funny scene.

1013
00:45:07.800 --> 00:45:11.099
Stealing Beverly's only scene.

1014
00:45:11.159 --> 00:45:14.280
Whoopi was a given in this movie, though, wasn't she?

1015
00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:18.360
given that she was the one sort of big movie star that appeared in

1016
00:45:18.360 --> 00:45:19.199
the next generation?

1017
00:45:19.260 --> 00:45:20.460
She's not credited.

1018
00:45:20.519 --> 00:45:24.659
So she isn't credited in this movie at all, not in the opening or

1019
00:45:24.659 --> 00:45:25.559
the closing credits.

1020
00:45:25.619 --> 00:45:31.260
And I gather that they had a choice between her in series 7 or in

1021
00:45:31.260 --> 00:45:31.860
this movie.

1022
00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:34.440
So she doesn't appear in series 7 at all.

1023
00:45:34.500 --> 00:45:38.880
I think her last episode might be suspicions, I want to say.

1024
00:45:38.940 --> 00:45:40.019
It is suspicions.

1025
00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:44.699
Yeah, where she goes to advise Dr. Bev on a murder mystery.

1026
00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:47.760
Yeah, just a shockingly bad episode.

1027
00:45:47.820 --> 00:45:49.079
Yeah.

1028
00:45:49.139 --> 00:45:50.280
And so this is her back.

1029
00:45:50.699 --> 00:45:55.199
Yeah, look, you've got Riker in at the F9 uniform here, a wolf in

1030
00:45:55.199 --> 00:45:56.340
the next generation.

1031
00:45:56.400 --> 00:45:56.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1032
00:45:57.000 --> 00:46:02.880
Well, now, now I think we're going to have Geordie is in, um, yeah

1033
00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:03.719
and there's data.

1034
00:46:03.780 --> 00:46:05.400
Look, data's in a deep, so...

1035
00:46:05.400 --> 00:46:09.059
I'm so pleased that Geordie is unamused by data.

1036
00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:10.860
It's sort of larking about, you know.

1037
00:46:10.920 --> 00:46:13.619
He is basically the audience identification figure in this scene.

1038
00:46:13.679 --> 00:46:17.519
So it's the shitty joke that he's finally got, the but the Ferengi

1039
00:46:17.519 --> 00:46:19.920
and the gorilla suit has to go joke.

1040
00:46:19.980 --> 00:46:22.860
Is that actually in encounter at Farm Point?

1041
00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:24.539
I don't remember.

1042
00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:26.940
I can tell you this now.

1043
00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:29.460
If there was a joke in a counterpart, it was going to be fairly

1044
00:46:29.460 --> 00:46:30.000
agonising.

1045
00:46:30.059 --> 00:46:33.300
Well, we would only have heard that as the punchline, I think, and

1046
00:46:33.300 --> 00:46:34.019
that's what he says.

1047
00:46:34.739 --> 00:46:36.539
And this is the 7 year later payoff.

1048
00:46:36.599 --> 00:46:37.380
Yeah.

1049
00:46:37.380 --> 00:46:38.039
Yeah.

1050
00:46:38.039 --> 00:46:39.659
Well, we don't find out what the joke is.

1051
00:46:39.719 --> 00:46:44.460
We only hear the punchline and he's he's really unpleasant to

1052
00:46:44.460 --> 00:46:45.480
watch.

1053
00:46:45.539 --> 00:46:47.579
Why is he overplaying every line so much?

1054
00:46:47.639 --> 00:46:51.719
Well, I think it's in the theatre right now, and he's trying to

1055
00:46:51.719 --> 00:46:52.980
get to the back of the audience, you know?

1056
00:46:53.219 --> 00:46:56.219
But don't you think the script wants him to do that?

1057
00:46:56.280 --> 00:46:58.199
Like the script wants him to overplay it?

1058
00:46:58.260 --> 00:47:00.300
Just the kind of love.

1059
00:47:00.300 --> 00:47:04.320
I will say in, um, in Birmingham Braggart's defence, they were

1060
00:47:04.320 --> 00:47:08.340
told they had to put in a big data subplot.

1061
00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:10.619
That wasn't what they were originally going to do.

1062
00:47:10.679 --> 00:47:14.280
In fact, a lot of what they originally were going to do is nothing

1063
00:47:14.280 --> 00:47:16.980
like how this, because a lot, they basically said, here's a list

1064
00:47:16.980 --> 00:47:18.179
of things we needed in this movie.

1065
00:47:18.239 --> 00:47:21.119
We want you to pass the battle on between dirt and dirt.

1066
00:47:21.179 --> 00:47:22.800
We need a big subplot for data.

1067
00:47:22.860 --> 00:47:25.019
We need emotional moments for Patrick Stewart.

1068
00:47:25.079 --> 00:47:27.780
So like, oh, well, you best have just told us what we got to write

1069
00:47:27.780 --> 00:47:28.440
then, haven't you?

1070
00:47:28.500 --> 00:47:32.760
I actually think this thing here too, when he says Open Sesame.

1071
00:47:32.820 --> 00:47:35.519
I mean, if he didn't laugh at his sort of crappy joke and then mug

1072
00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:38.159
at the camera about it, that that would actually be kind of

1073
00:47:38.159 --> 00:47:38.519
funny.

1074
00:47:38.579 --> 00:47:43.320
Like, you would expect him to be clever and playful because he's a

1075
00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:46.980
smart man, and now he has a sense of humour, you would expect him

1076
00:47:46.980 --> 00:47:48.539
to be good at it.

1077
00:47:48.599 --> 00:47:54.360
But because he's being written by, you know, Brandon Praga, the

1078
00:47:54.360 --> 00:47:57.599
lines aren't funny and nothing that goes on is funny and his

1079
00:47:57.599 --> 00:47:59.760
laughter. just seems embarrassing, I think.

1080
00:47:59.820 --> 00:48:02.280
Like, giving him the emotionship as well.

1081
00:48:02.340 --> 00:48:06.599
Again, it feels like a bit of a perverse reimagining of the next

1082
00:48:06.599 --> 00:48:07.619
generation, doesn't it?

1083
00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:09.539
It doesn't feel quite right.

1084
00:48:09.780 --> 00:48:13.559
Yeah, yeah, it's a strange thing to do in the 1st outing because

1085
00:48:13.559 --> 00:48:16.440
you're going to have him behaving differently from how he's ever

1086
00:48:16.440 --> 00:48:17.280
behaved before.

1087
00:48:17.340 --> 00:48:20.099
I actually like Mr. Tricorder secretly.

1088
00:48:20.639 --> 00:48:25.619
Because he turns to Mr. Tricorder and then just talks to him in

1089
00:48:25.619 --> 00:48:29.219
his normal data voice and then both of them turn to camera like Mr

1090
00:48:29.219 --> 00:48:32.280
Tricorder and he both turn to camera at the same time and then he

1091
00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:33.780
ruins it by mugging it.

1092
00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:36.900
But I do think it's actually sort of slightly.

1093
00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:39.780
I think, Mr. Tricorder, might get more screen time than Dr. Bev

1094
00:48:39.780 --> 00:48:40.800
you know, in this movie.

1095
00:48:40.860 --> 00:48:41.880
That's a tricor, am I?

1096
00:48:43.440 --> 00:48:47.579
There was one scene where I thought days with the emotions did

1097
00:48:47.579 --> 00:48:50.940
work and that's the scene in Stellar cartography, which is played

1098
00:48:50.940 --> 00:48:51.539
seriously.

1099
00:48:51.599 --> 00:48:53.039
It's not all done for laughs.

1100
00:48:53.159 --> 00:48:55.920
And I think he's seen about being properly afraid.

1101
00:48:55.980 --> 00:48:58.860
It's a scene about the car, too.

1102
00:48:58.920 --> 00:49:04.139
Because you have Picard, who is doing precisely what data is not

1103
00:49:04.139 --> 00:49:08.760
able to do yet, which is to continue his work despite having

1104
00:49:08.760 --> 00:49:10.440
suffered a devastating loss.

1105
00:49:10.500 --> 00:49:15.000
And, you know, Picard's state of mind is much worse than data. has

1106
00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:18.119
been a, you need a prick and has been embarrassed and has let

1107
00:49:18.119 --> 00:49:19.500
Geordie get captured.

1108
00:49:19.559 --> 00:49:21.059
Did you notice that?

1109
00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:22.380
He was literally girding to the camera.

1110
00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:23.760
Oh, it's dreadful.

1111
00:49:23.820 --> 00:49:26.219
Like, I don't even know, like his mouth is so big.

1112
00:49:26.280 --> 00:49:29.400
It's like bigger than kind of a normal human would be able to

1113
00:49:29.400 --> 00:49:30.000
achieve.

1114
00:49:30.059 --> 00:49:32.400
It's sort of, it's just unpleasant to watch.

1115
00:49:32.460 --> 00:49:33.360
You know what, though?

1116
00:49:33.420 --> 00:49:35.340
when he's playing the role like this.

1117
00:49:35.400 --> 00:49:38.219
It does actually make me realise the skill that he's put into

1118
00:49:38.219 --> 00:49:42.420
those 7 years of the next generation of making data so damn

1119
00:49:42.420 --> 00:49:42.780
light.

1120
00:49:42.840 --> 00:49:43.920
Because it could have been like this.

1121
00:49:43.980 --> 00:49:44.579
Yeah.

1122
00:49:44.579 --> 00:49:46.440
Do you know what's really funny?

1123
00:49:46.500 --> 00:49:50.219
Remembering, do you remember in all good things when we go back to

1124
00:49:50.219 --> 00:49:54.900
season one and Brent recaptures his season one performance, which

1125
00:49:54.900 --> 00:49:58.380
is quite different from very childlike.

1126
00:49:58.500 --> 00:49:59.280
Yeah.

1127
00:49:59.340 --> 00:50:00.059
Yeah, yeah.

1128
00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:04.199
Well, it comes series 70 years, just an exposition machine, isn't

1129
00:50:04.199 --> 00:50:04.440
he?

1130
00:50:04.500 --> 00:50:07.380
An occasional surreal episode about dreams and bad dreams.

1131
00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:08.699
Yes.

1132
00:50:08.760 --> 00:50:13.920
So here's Picard looking at his fucking space photo album where

1133
00:50:13.920 --> 00:50:17.940
instead of having white borders, all of the photographs have these

1134
00:50:17.940 --> 00:50:20.159
absurd holographic borders.

1135
00:50:20.219 --> 00:50:24.360
You've been spoiled by all those holograms in the air in Kursman

1136
00:50:24.360 --> 00:50:25.019
Trek, you know.

1137
00:50:25.079 --> 00:50:28.619
There is still a pace for the old-fashioned photo album.

1138
00:50:28.739 --> 00:50:32.460
But it's not old-fashioned. holographic borders on all of the

1139
00:50:32.460 --> 00:50:33.059
photos.

1140
00:50:33.119 --> 00:50:36.239
It's like, why is it a space photo album?

1141
00:50:36.300 --> 00:50:39.599
It's so bullshit So the people that have died.

1142
00:50:39.659 --> 00:50:41.820
Is it the family that we meet in family?

1143
00:50:41.880 --> 00:50:42.900
And that's the other thing about it.

1144
00:50:42.960 --> 00:50:45.239
I love that episode.

1145
00:50:45.300 --> 00:50:46.559
I love those characters.

1146
00:50:46.619 --> 00:50:47.699
What the hell?

1147
00:50:48.059 --> 00:50:50.039
Yeah, why do they do that?

1148
00:50:50.099 --> 00:50:50.760
It's awful.

1149
00:50:50.820 --> 00:50:51.719
It's just awful.

1150
00:50:51.780 --> 00:50:53.219
And they liked the kid.

1151
00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:55.440
So the kid who plays...

1152
00:50:55.440 --> 00:50:58.019
Oh, he comes back in rascals, doesn't he?

1153
00:50:58.079 --> 00:51:01.679
Comes back in rascals to play a young Jean-Luc Picardo does a

1154
00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:02.219
pretty good job.

1155
00:51:02.280 --> 00:51:04.199
I really quite like it.

1156
00:51:04.260 --> 00:51:07.260
He's my number one dad. so funny.

1157
00:51:07.320 --> 00:51:09.599
That's it is actually properly funny.

1158
00:51:09.659 --> 00:51:13.739
That's, and, you know, like, Riker looks hugely embarrassed and

1159
00:51:13.739 --> 00:51:15.420
the whole thing is actually really great.

1160
00:51:15.659 --> 00:51:18.239
Picard's hugging him isn't he?

1161
00:51:19.559 --> 00:51:21.599
That's really great.

1162
00:51:21.719 --> 00:51:25.619
So this is sort of watching that instead, honestly.

1163
00:51:25.679 --> 00:51:26.760
That's right.

1164
00:51:26.820 --> 00:51:29.760
And again, it's the thing where it's like, well, now we don't have

1165
00:51:29.760 --> 00:51:31.380
to turn the fucking lights on.

1166
00:51:31.440 --> 00:51:35.880
But at least here the light is coming from somewhere, you know, and

1167
00:51:35.880 --> 00:51:36.659
there's shadows.

1168
00:51:36.719 --> 00:51:39.960
Like if we were in his quarters in an episode, there would be no

1169
00:51:39.960 --> 00:51:42.119
shadows anywhere. would be just dark.

1170
00:51:42.179 --> 00:51:44.159
He's crying his eyes out, eh?

1171
00:51:44.219 --> 00:51:45.539
Yeah.

1172
00:51:45.599 --> 00:51:49.679
They did say as well, um, I think it's, I can't remember if it's

1173
00:51:49.679 --> 00:51:53.579
more or bragger, but they say the reason why the tears don't

1174
00:51:53.579 --> 00:51:53.699
work.

1175
00:51:53.699 --> 00:51:57.119
Like, we've got this new movie with this, with this crew that we

1176
00:51:57.119 --> 00:52:01.079
love and he should be as heroic as possible and getting out

1177
00:52:01.079 --> 00:52:01.320
there.

1178
00:52:01.380 --> 00:52:05.159
They said we've got him in a dark room in tears because it's not a

1179
00:52:05.159 --> 00:52:07.500
great it's a confusing mission statement, you know?

1180
00:52:07.559 --> 00:52:09.059
Yeah, that's right.

1181
00:52:09.119 --> 00:52:13.500
And like you know, like in a normal situation, he would take a

1182
00:52:13.500 --> 00:52:13.920
week off.

1183
00:52:13.980 --> 00:52:18.300
And I quite like, actually, there's that moment where Riker kind

1184
00:52:18.300 --> 00:52:22.260
of objects to being given this thing, you know, like, why am I

1185
00:52:22.260 --> 00:52:22.679
doing this?

1186
00:52:22.739 --> 00:52:26.699
And he just tells him to get it done and storms off into his ready

1187
00:52:26.699 --> 00:52:28.679
room, which I thought was actually pretty good.

1188
00:52:28.860 --> 00:52:33.119
Um, But yeah, I just hate this subplot.

1189
00:52:33.179 --> 00:52:35.699
And like, I don't know what it's in aid of.

1190
00:52:35.760 --> 00:52:38.159
Like he's suddenly realised that he isn't going to have children

1191
00:52:38.159 --> 00:52:41.340
and stuff and neither is Kirk.

1192
00:52:41.400 --> 00:52:44.219
Neither of them are going to have children.

1193
00:52:44.280 --> 00:52:48.719
And so when their jobs end, they no longer serve a purpose.

1194
00:52:48.719 --> 00:52:51.960
And the only thing that they do is make a difference.

1195
00:52:52.019 --> 00:52:55.199
And that's how he persuades Kirk to come back, isn't it?

1196
00:52:55.260 --> 00:52:57.960
You know, like you, retirement isn't you.

1197
00:52:58.019 --> 00:53:01.800
You need to be out there doing something and making a difference

1198
00:53:01.800 --> 00:53:05.699
which is what we saw in the very 1st scene on the Enterprise B. But

1199
00:53:05.699 --> 00:53:06.599
as well, do you know?

1200
00:53:06.659 --> 00:53:11.099
We haven't seen a bit of action since the beginning of the movie.

1201
00:53:11.159 --> 00:53:12.360
Yeah, yeah.

1202
00:53:12.420 --> 00:53:15.780
You know, and I'm not, you know, and I'm not saying I need action

1203
00:53:15.780 --> 00:53:17.639
all the time, but I'm watching a fucking movie.

1204
00:53:17.699 --> 00:53:21.059
And I'm basically watching an episode of Star Trek, the Next

1205
00:53:21.059 --> 00:53:23.280
Generation, that's particularly well lit right now.

1206
00:53:23.340 --> 00:53:26.760
Yeah, I think that's a huge problem, isn't it?

1207
00:53:26.820 --> 00:53:28.679
We haven't had anything.

1208
00:53:28.739 --> 00:53:30.300
We had.

1209
00:53:30.360 --> 00:53:31.559
Yeah, we haven't had anything.

1210
00:53:31.619 --> 00:53:33.719
This is the most dramatic thing that's happened.

1211
00:53:33.780 --> 00:53:36.000
Um, yeah.

1212
00:53:36.059 --> 00:53:37.559
Like, I think...

1213
00:53:37.559 --> 00:53:40.980
And it does feel like 2 fingers up at the TV series as well. just

1214
00:53:40.980 --> 00:53:44.579
to arbitrarily kill off important characters.

1215
00:53:44.639 --> 00:53:49.500
And Moore says that they wanted like a hook for this movie.

1216
00:53:49.559 --> 00:53:52.920
Like, you know, like they wanted it to have a big event in it and

1217
00:53:52.920 --> 00:53:55.260
what they actually landed on was the death of Kirk.

1218
00:53:55.320 --> 00:53:58.440
Like this would be the movie that is the death of Kirk.

1219
00:53:58.500 --> 00:54:00.000
Well, news flash.

1220
00:54:00.059 --> 00:54:01.980
This is the 1st Next Generation movie.

1221
00:54:02.099 --> 00:54:03.239
You know, like?

1222
00:54:03.900 --> 00:54:05.340
It's not a bad thing.

1223
00:54:05.400 --> 00:54:09.179
And also, fuck that, you know, like, I don't know that I want to

1224
00:54:09.179 --> 00:54:13.139
go to a movie to see my, like, if I want to go to a movie to see

1225
00:54:13.139 --> 00:54:17.579
my childhood heroes die, I'll watch the sequel, the sequel trilogy

1226
00:54:17.579 --> 00:54:23.099
of Star Wars, you know, where each film kills off yet.

1227
00:54:23.159 --> 00:54:25.199
Excuse me, I ain't seen the last one yet.

1228
00:54:25.260 --> 00:54:27.000
It's really bad.

1229
00:54:27.059 --> 00:54:30.659
And and that's kind of miserable.

1230
00:54:30.719 --> 00:54:35.340
That's kind of miserable. where they bring back Emperor Palpatine

1231
00:54:35.340 --> 00:54:38.519
in the school of text at the beginning and it doesn't actually

1232
00:54:38.519 --> 00:54:40.019
happen as a dramatic reveal.

1233
00:54:40.079 --> 00:54:43.980
Robot carry because of course she died between films.

1234
00:54:44.579 --> 00:54:46.380
Oh, do you know what?

1235
00:54:46.440 --> 00:54:49.380
I'm going completely off piece here, but there is one bit where I

1236
00:54:49.380 --> 00:54:52.440
think this set actually does work in this movie and that is when

1237
00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:56.219
they crashed up on the planet and he looks out the window and sees

1238
00:54:56.219 --> 00:54:57.719
the sky up from the skylight.

1239
00:54:57.780 --> 00:54:57.960
Yeah.

1240
00:54:58.019 --> 00:54:59.039
That's great.

1241
00:54:59.099 --> 00:55:00.420
That is pretty good.

1242
00:55:00.539 --> 00:55:02.699
Well that is the only bit.

1243
00:55:02.760 --> 00:55:04.559
I also think the thing.

1244
00:55:04.559 --> 00:55:05.400
They're all sitting down.

1245
00:55:05.460 --> 00:55:07.079
Yeah, he's got a chair now.

1246
00:55:07.559 --> 00:55:10.739
Again, it's sticking 2 fingers up on the next generation.

1247
00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:14.099
He always stood up for that. for 7 years and now he's got to see

1248
00:55:14.099 --> 00:55:14.340
me.

1249
00:55:14.760 --> 00:55:18.059
Here's your reward for coming into the movies.

1250
00:55:18.119 --> 00:55:18.840
You've got to see.

1251
00:55:18.900 --> 00:55:19.380
Well done.

1252
00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:20.400
Yeah.

1253
00:55:20.460 --> 00:55:21.840
So here we go, here we go.

1254
00:55:21.900 --> 00:55:22.619
Here's some action.

1255
00:55:22.679 --> 00:55:23.400
Do you know what I mean?

1256
00:55:23.460 --> 00:55:27.420
Like, the thing's going to explode. his Lurser and Bator, like for

1257
00:55:27.420 --> 00:55:28.019
some reason.

1258
00:55:28.079 --> 00:55:29.699
Actually, because they're great.

1259
00:55:30.480 --> 00:55:32.340
They are great.

1260
00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:32.880
But you know what?

1261
00:55:33.000 --> 00:55:36.360
Did you ever read the story of when they were showing off to

1262
00:55:36.360 --> 00:55:38.280
Robert O'Reilly, who plays Gowron?

1263
00:55:38.340 --> 00:55:42.179
They were going, we're in the next generation movie, like, and

1264
00:55:42.179 --> 00:55:44.159
he's like, you know what that means, don't you?

1265
00:55:44.219 --> 00:55:47.340
If you're in the movies, you're going to be killed off.

1266
00:55:47.400 --> 00:55:48.900
Well, they hadn't got the script at this point.

1267
00:55:48.900 --> 00:55:51.599
And then they've got the script and they were like, oh, fuck.

1268
00:55:53.099 --> 00:55:58.019
Because they do, do they do a series one, DS9 episode?

1269
00:55:58.079 --> 00:55:59.820
They do, yeah.

1270
00:55:59.880 --> 00:56:02.099
Before this, I think it was before this, yeah.

1271
00:56:02.159 --> 00:56:03.780
Well, of course it was.

1272
00:56:03.840 --> 00:56:04.440
They're killed in this.

1273
00:56:04.500 --> 00:56:05.400
Yeah, they killed in this.

1274
00:56:05.460 --> 00:56:06.360
And I won't lie.

1275
00:56:06.420 --> 00:56:09.599
The bit where they do that very 60s dramatic zoom on their faces

1276
00:56:09.599 --> 00:56:11.699
as they die was absolutely hilarious.

1277
00:56:11.760 --> 00:56:16.199
Well, I love their kind of when they're looking through Geordie's

1278
00:56:16.199 --> 00:56:20.099
visor at Beverly and they're pulling faces and going. looks

1279
00:56:20.099 --> 00:56:21.539
absolutely stunning in that scene.

1280
00:56:21.599 --> 00:56:22.440
She does.

1281
00:56:22.440 --> 00:56:23.519
And they're pulling...

1282
00:56:23.519 --> 00:56:24.360
She's never looked more beautiful.

1283
00:56:24.420 --> 00:56:28.380
Were they pulling hilarious faces saying how revolting Earth women

1284
00:56:28.380 --> 00:56:29.519
look, which is really funny.

1285
00:56:29.699 --> 00:56:31.980
You said this was a Christmas movie.

1286
00:56:32.039 --> 00:56:33.960
That's the most pantomime moment in the whole movie.

1287
00:56:34.019 --> 00:56:35.219
Yeah, yeah.

1288
00:56:35.340 --> 00:56:38.280
But, you know, that's an amazing...

1289
00:56:38.340 --> 00:56:40.980
We cut back to them about 5 times.

1290
00:56:41.099 --> 00:56:42.840
Yeah, we get it.

1291
00:56:42.900 --> 00:56:44.400
You think she's ugly.

1292
00:56:44.460 --> 00:56:45.239
We get it.

1293
00:56:47.159 --> 00:56:49.980
So this is the 1st wow.

1294
00:56:50.039 --> 00:56:50.880
Wow, that looks pretty good.

1295
00:56:50.940 --> 00:56:52.500
This is the 1st movie.

1296
00:56:52.559 --> 00:56:56.579
Is this the 1st time that the Enterprise is ever realised as a

1297
00:56:56.579 --> 00:56:57.659
computer?

1298
00:56:57.840 --> 00:57:00.480
They talk about this in the commentary.

1299
00:57:00.539 --> 00:57:04.679
Basically, it is a mixture of model work and CGI.

1300
00:57:04.739 --> 00:57:05.519
Yeah.

1301
00:57:05.519 --> 00:57:07.139
And you can't really tell the difference.

1302
00:57:07.199 --> 00:57:08.039
So that's quite impressive.

1303
00:57:08.280 --> 00:57:13.199
But there is, like, there's some pieces of stock footage, aren't

1304
00:57:13.199 --> 00:57:14.159
there, in this?

1305
00:57:14.219 --> 00:57:20.820
So the, we do see like in the middle of the film we get to see a

1306
00:57:20.820 --> 00:57:24.659
captain's log, which is being delivered against just one of the

1307
00:57:24.659 --> 00:57:28.860
most reused pieces of stock footage of the enterprise, you know, in

1308
00:57:28.860 --> 00:57:29.639
the show's history.

1309
00:57:29.699 --> 00:57:32.400
And I think when Lurser and Batour ship blows up.

1310
00:57:32.460 --> 00:57:34.139
It's from the previous film.

1311
00:57:34.199 --> 00:57:40.139
Like, well, at least it spares, I was you saying, again, well

1312
00:57:40.139 --> 00:57:42.300
here's that same footage from encounter a far boy.

1313
00:57:42.360 --> 00:57:46.260
I think for the 1st time since Encounter of Farpoint, they've shot

1314
00:57:46.260 --> 00:57:47.760
the Enterprise in a new way again.

1315
00:57:47.820 --> 00:57:48.719
Yeah, yeah.

1316
00:57:48.780 --> 00:57:51.840
Do you know a bit just there, where he punched.

1317
00:57:51.960 --> 00:57:54.000
Is it Betel or Lerser, one of them?

1318
00:57:54.059 --> 00:57:55.380
Yeah, yeah, I can't remember.

1319
00:57:55.380 --> 00:57:55.920
We punched it.

1320
00:57:55.980 --> 00:57:59.639
And then she goes, I hope you're initiating a mating ritual and

1321
00:57:59.639 --> 00:58:00.719
puts the blood on his lips.

1322
00:58:00.780 --> 00:58:02.219
But do you know what?

1323
00:58:02.280 --> 00:58:04.619
Do you know how this was originally conceived and it was written

1324
00:58:04.619 --> 00:58:05.639
in the script as well?

1325
00:58:05.699 --> 00:58:08.400
And when they wrote it, they even said to each other, they're

1326
00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:10.739
going to take this out, they'll never, ever.

1327
00:58:10.800 --> 00:58:11.880
Were they fucking?

1328
00:58:11.940 --> 00:58:13.440
No, they were supposed to materialise.

1329
00:58:13.500 --> 00:58:16.860
And it was supposed to be like this like Roman orgy going on on

1330
00:58:16.860 --> 00:58:19.980
the Klingon ship and everyone's a bit sexed up and they're all

1331
00:58:19.980 --> 00:58:24.300
eating grapes and it's all and and like both the Rick Burman took

1332
00:58:24.300 --> 00:58:25.800
one look at that and went, no, get rid of it.

1333
00:58:25.860 --> 00:58:26.820
We're not having that.

1334
00:58:26.880 --> 00:58:27.900
That's right.

1335
00:58:27.900 --> 00:58:29.280
We can save ourselves a lot.

1336
00:58:29.340 --> 00:58:32.699
It was supposed to be overtly sexualised because they figured they

1337
00:58:32.699 --> 00:58:34.079
could do that with a movie, you know?

1338
00:58:34.260 --> 00:58:36.599
And Berman was like, no.

1339
00:58:36.659 --> 00:58:38.820
This is still the next generation.

1340
00:58:38.880 --> 00:58:39.840
We're not having any sex.

1341
00:58:39.900 --> 00:58:41.099
There's no sex.

1342
00:58:44.519 --> 00:58:49.500
So what is it about Malcolm McDowell and sorry that doesn't really

1343
00:58:49.500 --> 00:58:50.039
work.

1344
00:58:50.820 --> 00:58:57.300
Um, I don't think his motive is well defined.

1345
00:58:57.360 --> 00:59:00.960
It just comes across as somebody who's a bit powerful.

1346
00:59:01.019 --> 00:59:01.679
Has he lost somebody?

1347
00:59:01.739 --> 00:59:05.579
Is he going into the nexus because he's his wife and children were

1348
00:59:05.579 --> 00:59:06.780
killed by the Borg.

1349
00:59:06.840 --> 00:59:11.039
So we know already that Gynon's people like their home planet was

1350
00:59:11.039 --> 00:59:15.239
assimilated by the Borg, which is why Gyner knows about them and

1351
00:59:15.239 --> 00:59:17.400
Picard doesn't.

1352
00:59:17.639 --> 00:59:20.639
And so, so it's that reason.

1353
00:59:20.699 --> 00:59:26.400
It's the same kind of motivation that Kurt would Smith has in the

1354
00:59:26.400 --> 00:59:30.059
year from hell or whatever, you know, he's, he's kind of just done

1355
00:59:30.059 --> 00:59:31.559
a 1000000 times more effectively.

1356
00:59:31.619 --> 00:59:32.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1357
00:59:32.880 --> 00:59:37.260
There's some, uh, very quickly, there's some fabulous uh, practical

1358
00:59:37.260 --> 00:59:39.840
lighting in guidance quarters. the candles.

1359
00:59:39.900 --> 00:59:41.760
They could have done that in the next generation.

1360
00:59:41.820 --> 00:59:42.960
Not sure why they didn't.

1361
00:59:43.019 --> 00:59:43.679
No.

1362
00:59:43.739 --> 00:59:47.699
Yeah, no, it's all lit like a very boring TV show, I think.

1363
00:59:48.300 --> 00:59:53.400
But even though, okay, so he's got a tragic backstory, and he's

1364
00:59:53.400 --> 00:59:56.460
going into the Nexus, because he wants to be, you know, reunited

1365
00:59:56.460 --> 01:00:00.059
fantasy version of his wife and children and whatever.

1366
01:00:00.119 --> 01:00:02.820
I mean, that comes across very strongly.

1367
01:00:02.880 --> 01:00:06.539
What he comes across as is a bit of a one note, panto villain.

1368
01:00:06.599 --> 01:00:07.139
Yeah.

1369
01:00:07.199 --> 01:00:08.099
Yeah.

1370
01:00:08.159 --> 01:00:14.039
And he, but there is something there, like, again, he's responding

1371
01:00:14.039 --> 01:00:17.519
differently to the passage of time.

1372
01:00:17.579 --> 01:00:19.320
Isn't he?

1373
01:00:19.380 --> 01:00:22.860
Because there's that scene, you know, the line that he says, they

1374
01:00:22.860 --> 01:00:26.340
say that time is the fire in which we all burn.

1375
01:00:26.400 --> 01:00:33.119
And at the end of the film, Picard recalls that line and says, no

1376
01:00:33.119 --> 01:00:36.659
you know, time is a reminder that we should enjoy every moment

1377
01:00:36.659 --> 01:00:37.619
while it lasts.

1378
01:00:37.619 --> 01:00:43.019
And it's super kind of, like, like, it's not very, Yeah, that's

1379
01:00:43.019 --> 01:00:43.320
right.

1380
01:00:43.380 --> 01:00:44.699
It's really ripe.

1381
01:00:44.760 --> 01:00:45.900
It's not very interesting.

1382
01:00:45.960 --> 01:00:50.940
And so thematically, this isn't really about anything very much, in

1383
01:00:50.940 --> 01:00:54.480
a way that's not always true of Star Trek films, but seems to be

1384
01:00:54.480 --> 01:00:56.219
true of the next generation films.

1385
01:00:56.280 --> 01:01:00.000
There's something about age and like it's called Star Trek

1386
01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:04.440
Generations and neither Kirk nor Picard have children and we are

1387
01:01:04.440 --> 01:01:06.420
concerned about generations in that sense.

1388
01:01:06.480 --> 01:01:09.420
It's not just called generations because it's, you know, Star Trek

1389
01:01:09.420 --> 01:01:10.320
the Next Generation movie.

1390
01:01:10.380 --> 01:01:13.559
Don't ever have that conversation, though, do they?

1391
01:01:13.619 --> 01:01:14.460
That's the theme of this.

1392
01:01:14.579 --> 01:01:17.820
Maybe they should have had that conversation in the nexus when

1393
01:01:17.820 --> 01:01:18.239
they meet.

1394
01:01:18.300 --> 01:01:24.239
Yeah, so, so, so, Kirk has that conversation with Chekov when he

1395
01:01:24.239 --> 01:01:29.760
meets Tamora and and Picardo has that conversation with Deanna.

1396
01:01:29.820 --> 01:01:30.780
Yeah, yeah.

1397
01:01:30.840 --> 01:01:34.139
So maybe they should have had that conversation together and

1398
01:01:34.139 --> 01:01:35.880
reached some kind of a conclusion that...

1399
01:01:35.880 --> 01:01:37.980
It's all very undercooked, like, who gives a shit?

1400
01:01:38.099 --> 01:01:40.440
Popping around the universe is actually more exciting than

1401
01:01:40.440 --> 01:01:41.159
bringing up a family.

1402
01:01:41.219 --> 01:01:43.500
Well, you could bring up a family on the enterprise because

1403
01:01:43.500 --> 01:01:44.400
there's kids on there anyway.

1404
01:01:44.460 --> 01:01:46.139
Yeah, yeah. for some reason.

1405
01:01:46.199 --> 01:01:47.760
For the last time, actually.

1406
01:01:47.820 --> 01:01:50.699
O'Brien and Keiko and lovely Molly.

1407
01:01:51.480 --> 01:01:54.719
But as well, like they're going, they are going for this sort of

1408
01:01:54.719 --> 01:01:58.199
grandiose villain, because they've got him in this fabulous sort

1409
01:01:58.199 --> 01:01:59.699
of chasm later on this bridge.

1410
01:01:59.820 --> 01:02:02.940
Yeah, he's got all electricity, you know, coming across him and

1411
01:02:02.940 --> 01:02:05.039
it's also hugely cinematic.

1412
01:02:05.039 --> 01:02:07.739
He's actually underplaying the role quite a lot.

1413
01:02:07.860 --> 01:02:08.820
Yeah.

1414
01:02:08.820 --> 01:02:11.219
So that's not very fun.

1415
01:02:11.280 --> 01:02:14.280
I mean, Monterban doesn't do that in Star Trek too, does he?

1416
01:02:14.340 --> 01:02:15.659
He just goes for it.

1417
01:02:15.719 --> 01:02:17.159
And that's fun.

1418
01:02:17.219 --> 01:02:18.360
Yeah.

1419
01:02:18.420 --> 01:02:21.300
Yeah, it's it isn't an undercooked villain, isn't it?

1420
01:02:21.360 --> 01:02:25.079
You just get him on to have that sort of crisp accent and, and um

1421
01:02:25.079 --> 01:02:26.400
I don't know.

1422
01:02:26.460 --> 01:02:28.559
They approached him, you know, and they didn't think they were

1423
01:02:28.559 --> 01:02:29.159
going to get him.

1424
01:02:29.159 --> 01:02:32.639
And then they told him that this was going to be the movie where

1425
01:02:32.639 --> 01:02:35.280
he was going to kill him and he was going to kill Kirk and he was

1426
01:02:35.280 --> 01:02:36.179
like, I'm there.

1427
01:02:37.500 --> 01:02:41.099
He goes, because I think he said, what is it?

1428
01:02:41.159 --> 01:02:45.119
One day, what's the quote, one day, I'll be a trivial pursuit

1429
01:02:45.119 --> 01:02:50.099
question where which movie and which character was the feature of

1430
01:02:50.099 --> 01:02:51.179
the death of Captain Kerr.

1431
01:02:51.239 --> 01:02:58.019
So this is stock footage, this shot of the Enterprise.. shot from

1432
01:02:58.019 --> 01:02:58.800
TNG.

1433
01:02:58.860 --> 01:03:01.440
They haven't done another one of just using that again.

1434
01:03:02.039 --> 01:03:05.460
Can I say as well that more in Brogra?

1435
01:03:05.519 --> 01:03:08.820
Oh, very honest about the deficiencies of the next generation

1436
01:03:08.820 --> 01:03:10.739
because I have left the franchise at this point.

1437
01:03:10.800 --> 01:03:14.159
They talk a bit about Roddenbury's original conception for the

1438
01:03:14.159 --> 01:03:15.000
show, things like that.

1439
01:03:15.059 --> 01:03:17.400
One of the things they talk about is that model shot of the

1440
01:03:17.400 --> 01:03:19.260
enterprise and they say, you know what?

1441
01:03:19.320 --> 01:03:20.760
It looks unwieldy.

1442
01:03:20.820 --> 01:03:23.460
It's top heavy with the saucer.

1443
01:03:23.519 --> 01:03:25.260
So from certain angles.

1444
01:03:25.320 --> 01:03:28.800
That's why they don't do a lot of action in the movies because in

1445
01:03:28.800 --> 01:03:32.219
the enterprise, because it just doesn't suit an action scene very

1446
01:03:32.219 --> 01:03:32.460
well.

1447
01:03:32.519 --> 01:03:35.280
No, but I think the new enterprise does.

1448
01:03:35.340 --> 01:03:37.320
Like, I think they're sovereign class when I'm looks great.

1449
01:03:38.099 --> 01:03:39.300
It's designed for a movie, isn't it?

1450
01:03:39.360 --> 01:03:40.139
Yeah, yeah.

1451
01:03:40.199 --> 01:03:43.679
But, you know, discovery, which looks weird and is very

1452
01:03:43.679 --> 01:03:47.039
geometrical also looks great in sort of action shots too.

1453
01:03:47.639 --> 01:03:53.519
Herman Zimmerman, uh, who costume designed, much...

1454
01:03:53.519 --> 01:03:55.139
No, he's the set designer.

1455
01:03:55.199 --> 01:03:55.860
Oh, is he?

1456
01:03:55.920 --> 01:03:57.119
Who's the costume?

1457
01:03:57.179 --> 01:03:57.780
costumes.

1458
01:03:59.099 --> 01:03:59.400
Good idea.

1459
01:03:59.460 --> 01:04:02.280
But basically he did all the sets for TNG.

1460
01:04:02.340 --> 01:04:03.840
He did all the sets for DS 9.

1461
01:04:03.900 --> 01:04:08.880
And um, Marina Assertis says in the insurrection commentary and

1462
01:04:08.880 --> 01:04:12.480
just a note that you have to go and listen to that because she's

1463
01:04:12.480 --> 01:04:13.920
wonderfully vague in it.

1464
01:04:13.980 --> 01:04:15.659
She spends the entire commentary gang.

1465
01:04:15.719 --> 01:04:18.719
Johnny, Johnny, what's going on here?

1466
01:04:18.840 --> 01:04:20.940
Johnny, why am I doing that?

1467
01:04:21.059 --> 01:04:22.619
She goes at one point.

1468
01:04:22.739 --> 01:04:24.840
Johnny, why is my name last on the credits?

1469
01:04:24.960 --> 01:04:27.300
Is that's why I'm in this movie so little?

1470
01:04:27.360 --> 01:04:30.119
Oh, that's terrible, mirroring, so expression.

1471
01:04:30.179 --> 01:04:30.659
I'm so sorry.

1472
01:04:31.079 --> 01:04:33.000
Where was I going with that?

1473
01:04:33.840 --> 01:04:35.340
Thank you very much.

1474
01:04:35.400 --> 01:04:36.000
Oh, sorry.

1475
01:04:36.059 --> 01:04:40.500
She says in insurrection, that Zimmerman was there from day one.

1476
01:04:40.559 --> 01:04:44.280
So it was only right that he took sort of the leap to the movies.

1477
01:04:44.340 --> 01:04:45.300
Right.

1478
01:04:45.300 --> 01:04:48.900
But again, he wasn't a movie designer.

1479
01:04:49.260 --> 01:04:53.219
But I do think there's still a cartography set, and I think it

1480
01:04:53.219 --> 01:04:56.159
inspires a similar set in Voyager later on.

1481
01:04:56.219 --> 01:04:58.320
A much cheater said in Voyager, though.

1482
01:04:58.380 --> 01:05:00.960
Well, of course, it's done on a TV budget.

1483
01:05:01.019 --> 01:05:02.820
They don't have 60000000 to play with, did they?

1484
01:05:02.880 --> 01:05:03.599
No, I know.

1485
01:05:03.659 --> 01:05:08.099
I don't like this scene at all because it is that thing that we

1486
01:05:08.099 --> 01:05:13.860
talked about, was it, um, Billingsley, who complained about this

1487
01:05:13.860 --> 01:05:16.980
where you would have this conversation, which was half about space

1488
01:05:16.980 --> 01:05:18.239
nonsense.

1489
01:05:18.300 --> 01:05:21.539
Oh, it's Tim Ross, saying half of this conversation's about space

1490
01:05:21.539 --> 01:05:24.719
nonsense, and then the other half is about our emotions.

1491
01:05:24.780 --> 01:05:30.539
And we stop the, because we can't do, we're not skilled enough to

1492
01:05:30.539 --> 01:05:33.960
do a scene that is just purely about characters discussing how

1493
01:05:33.960 --> 01:05:37.260
they're feeling, without them just, do you know what I mean?

1494
01:05:37.320 --> 01:05:40.739
Without them just blurting it out at each other, we have to

1495
01:05:40.739 --> 01:05:45.059
intersperse it with exposition and sort of special effects and

1496
01:05:45.059 --> 01:05:46.440
stuff to get it happening.

1497
01:05:46.500 --> 01:05:50.099
I think this had the potential to be good, but what we don't get

1498
01:05:50.099 --> 01:05:59.099
is we don't get reminded that, um, Picard is feeling worse.

1499
01:05:59.159 --> 01:06:00.780
Maybe it's in Picard's performance.

1500
01:06:00.840 --> 01:06:02.039
Maybe it's in Stuart's performance.

1501
01:06:02.099 --> 01:06:05.400
Picard is feeling much worse than data in this, you know.

1502
01:06:05.820 --> 01:06:09.840
Yeah, I do like the fact that he says to him, look, data, you just

1503
01:06:09.840 --> 01:06:13.380
just people do your fucking job, but and still do their jobs.

1504
01:06:13.440 --> 01:06:15.840
Yes, that's right. advantage all these years.

1505
01:06:15.900 --> 01:06:17.400
And this is what you're looking for.

1506
01:06:17.460 --> 01:06:20.639
It doesn't quite get to any of those moments though, does it?

1507
01:06:20.699 --> 01:06:24.539
Instead, it's more like, you know, Picard's going, you know, I'm

1508
01:06:24.539 --> 01:06:26.460
agonising over the death of my family.

1509
01:06:26.579 --> 01:06:29.039
And how long is it till we get to the veridian system?

1510
01:06:29.280 --> 01:06:35.699
that's right He does back down from just ordering him to sit down

1511
01:06:35.699 --> 01:06:40.079
and do his job, which I think is kind of good, but, you know, it's

1512
01:06:40.079 --> 01:06:41.400
all just terribly undercooked.

1513
01:06:41.460 --> 01:06:42.420
And this is...

1514
01:06:42.420 --> 01:06:44.880
Morgan Braga say that they think this is the best scene in the

1515
01:06:44.880 --> 01:06:45.239
movie.

1516
01:06:45.300 --> 01:06:49.260
Yeah, but it's the scene that they've done so many times before.

1517
01:06:49.320 --> 01:06:52.320
It's the trick that they perform all the time.

1518
01:06:52.320 --> 01:06:54.780
And it's...

1519
01:06:54.780 --> 01:06:59.460
The problem is that I don't give a shit about the people on

1520
01:06:59.460 --> 01:07:01.920
Veridian four.

1521
01:07:02.039 --> 01:07:03.659
You have mentioned this one source wise.

1522
01:07:03.719 --> 01:07:05.579
Yes, I just don't care.

1523
01:07:05.639 --> 01:07:07.559
We don't see them.

1524
01:07:07.619 --> 01:07:10.559
We don't, they're just words.

1525
01:07:10.619 --> 01:07:16.079
And so, and I don't think that the film properly sells the fact

1526
01:07:16.079 --> 01:07:21.780
that the entire crew of the enterprise is killed when the sun goes

1527
01:07:21.780 --> 01:07:22.079
out.

1528
01:07:22.139 --> 01:07:25.380
Oh, I don't think I don't think it sells that at all.

1529
01:07:25.440 --> 01:07:27.599
No, I don't think it does. either.

1530
01:07:27.659 --> 01:07:29.039
And so there's no stakes.

1531
01:07:29.099 --> 01:07:30.599
You're telling me that now.

1532
01:07:30.659 --> 01:07:31.860
It's the 1st time I've realised it.

1533
01:07:31.920 --> 01:07:33.420
Yeah, that's exactly it.

1534
01:07:33.480 --> 01:07:38.340
They're all killed when the shockwave goes through, but somehow we

1535
01:07:38.340 --> 01:07:40.139
never notice it or mention it.

1536
01:07:40.199 --> 01:07:41.519
Picard doesn't mention it.

1537
01:07:41.579 --> 01:07:43.079
Like he's not worried about.

1538
01:07:43.139 --> 01:07:45.599
He doesn't even mention what's happened to his crew when he's in

1539
01:07:45.599 --> 01:07:46.920
the nexus or when he's.

1540
01:07:46.980 --> 01:07:48.780
They kind of want to have their cake and eat it, don't they?

1541
01:07:48.840 --> 01:07:50.820
They want to raise the stakes.

1542
01:07:51.059 --> 01:07:53.579
But this is still next generation.

1543
01:07:53.639 --> 01:07:55.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1544
01:07:55.440 --> 01:07:59.219
But it's like, it's like when you watch best for both whales and

1545
01:07:59.219 --> 01:08:01.440
it's like, you know, oh, the Borg are heading to Earth.

1546
01:08:01.500 --> 01:08:02.519
Well, we can care about her.

1547
01:08:02.579 --> 01:08:03.360
We're from Earth.

1548
01:08:03.420 --> 01:08:04.800
Half our characters from Earth, you know.

1549
01:08:04.860 --> 01:08:06.239
Where it's like, you're right.

1550
01:08:06.300 --> 01:08:08.219
The veridian system, well, we've never been there before.

1551
01:08:08.280 --> 01:08:11.760
We never go there again and we don't know anyone on that planet.

1552
01:08:11.820 --> 01:08:13.139
We've never seen it.

1553
01:08:13.199 --> 01:08:16.199
Like it's not even like it's vulcan or something we might possibly

1554
01:08:16.199 --> 01:08:16.619
do.

1555
01:08:16.680 --> 01:08:18.359
Do you remember when they say what the population of the planet

1556
01:08:18.359 --> 01:08:18.720
is?

1557
01:08:18.779 --> 01:08:19.920
They say the number.

1558
01:08:19.979 --> 01:08:23.699
We're supposed to be like, oh, yeah, 1000000s of people.

1559
01:08:24.060 --> 01:08:27.420
Yeah, they're just space people that don't exist.

1560
01:08:27.840 --> 01:08:33.420
Yeah, exactly. 230 million, not 320. sorry. got that wrong.

1561
01:08:33.479 --> 01:08:37.020
I overreacted by 900000 people.

1562
01:08:37.079 --> 01:08:39.300
Yeah, so we're going to...

1563
01:08:39.359 --> 01:08:40.739
And that is a bit of a problem, isn't it?

1564
01:08:40.859 --> 01:08:43.800
If the stakes are forgettable, Why do we care?

1565
01:08:43.920 --> 01:08:45.180
No, that's right.

1566
01:08:45.239 --> 01:08:50.399
And, and, you know, 2 of the original Star Trek films have, you

1567
01:08:50.399 --> 01:08:55.319
know, things directly, you know, like big space things coming

1568
01:08:55.319 --> 01:08:56.640
along to threaten Earth.

1569
01:08:56.699 --> 01:09:02.159
You know, like it's about Earth and and and the next Star Trek, the

1570
01:09:02.159 --> 01:09:04.859
Next Generation film, attack, you know, just about to say that.

1571
01:09:04.920 --> 01:09:06.359
It's a threat to the earth.

1572
01:09:06.420 --> 01:09:07.800
It's a threat to the timeline.

1573
01:09:07.920 --> 01:09:11.399
They may prevent 1st contact and we'll never have Star Trek.

1574
01:09:11.460 --> 01:09:13.319
Those are things we can get. about.

1575
01:09:13.380 --> 01:09:17.399
I think that there's a scene that's been deleted here and thank

1576
01:09:17.399 --> 01:09:22.739
God it's been deleted because when something gets said about

1577
01:09:22.739 --> 01:09:27.060
Geordie and Soren says, oh, his heart wasn't in it, and I think

1578
01:09:27.060 --> 01:09:30.539
that that has to be a reference to him like doing something like

1579
01:09:30.539 --> 01:09:33.119
putting a probe in his heart or doing something.

1580
01:09:33.180 --> 01:09:36.479
Like, I think that that's a remnant of a scene that has been

1581
01:09:36.479 --> 01:09:38.340
caught of him torturing him.

1582
01:09:39.479 --> 01:09:43.500
I did get a bit of fun from these scenes, you know, with Lers from

1583
01:09:43.500 --> 01:09:44.039
baseball.

1584
01:09:44.039 --> 01:09:47.460
It's just because the performances are really fun, you know?

1585
01:09:47.520 --> 01:09:48.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1586
01:09:48.239 --> 01:09:49.920
Oh, that's from the tour are terrific.

1587
01:09:49.979 --> 01:09:50.699
They're great.

1588
01:09:50.760 --> 01:09:54.239
They basically just stop short of turning into camera raising

1589
01:09:54.239 --> 01:09:56.460
their eyebrows, you know, how arch they are.

1590
01:09:57.060 --> 01:09:59.939
But, you know, that's more fun than soaring.

1591
01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:01.560
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1592
01:10:02.819 --> 01:10:05.520
Yeah, so are you going to say that?

1593
01:10:05.579 --> 01:10:06.239
No, okay.

1594
01:10:06.300 --> 01:10:07.079
Oh, yeah, no.

1595
01:10:07.680 --> 01:10:10.500
And the whole sequence where where Geordie's walking around the

1596
01:10:10.500 --> 01:10:12.960
ship and we're looking for his visor and we've done that before as

1597
01:10:12.960 --> 01:10:13.140
well.

1598
01:10:13.199 --> 01:10:17.279
Let's remembering the mind's eye and my mind's eye.

1599
01:10:17.340 --> 01:10:19.979
Yeah, that's a good one. just get to that wonderful bit where

1600
01:10:19.979 --> 01:10:22.619
they're like, 0 my god, we've got the shield frequency.

1601
01:10:22.680 --> 01:10:23.460
Fire.

1602
01:10:24.180 --> 01:10:27.479
Finally, there's something fucking happening in this movie.

1603
01:10:27.539 --> 01:10:29.100
That's right.

1604
01:10:29.460 --> 01:10:33.779
I really like them. complaining that he's the only engineer in

1605
01:10:33.779 --> 01:10:37.380
Starfleet that never goes anywhere in near engineering.

1606
01:10:37.439 --> 01:10:39.479
That's sort of like...

1607
01:10:39.539 --> 01:10:40.199
Are you kidding me?

1608
01:10:40.260 --> 01:10:41.819
That's where he spent the last 4 seasons.

1609
01:10:41.880 --> 01:10:45.119
Yeah, yeah, but he's just wandering around the ship.

1610
01:10:45.180 --> 01:10:49.020
What the hell is going on on the side of the bridge with all these

1611
01:10:49.020 --> 01:10:50.520
consoles and tactical displays?

1612
01:10:50.579 --> 01:10:51.359
They weren't there before.

1613
01:10:51.420 --> 01:10:54.180
Well, because well, because you have a wide screen shot.

1614
01:10:54.239 --> 01:10:58.680
I think the version that we're watching is not. don't know.

1615
01:10:58.739 --> 01:11:02.220
It looked pan and scanned, but I think it's so that there's things

1616
01:11:02.220 --> 01:11:05.460
on the edge of the screen happening when we have a normal shot of

1617
01:11:05.460 --> 01:11:10.260
the bridge, in widescreen, you know, because that set is so

1618
01:11:10.260 --> 01:11:10.920
sparse.

1619
01:11:10.979 --> 01:11:12.479
There's so little in it.

1620
01:11:13.020 --> 01:11:17.939
You know what I think is really telling about this movie is, like

1621
01:11:17.939 --> 01:11:19.979
you can tell which were the big moments, right?

1622
01:11:20.039 --> 01:11:26.460
Because, uh, about 90% of this movie is forgotten about in the

1623
01:11:26.460 --> 01:11:29.579
trailer, but there's about 3 scenes, and in the trailer, all those

1624
01:11:29.579 --> 01:11:34.979
movies, it's Picard meeting Kirk, it's Picard and Whoopi Goldberg

1625
01:11:34.979 --> 01:11:38.460
having the scene in the quarters, and it's the Enterprise

1626
01:11:38.460 --> 01:11:38.939
crashing.

1627
01:11:39.000 --> 01:11:40.859
That's basically the whole triangler.

1628
01:11:40.920 --> 01:11:43.859
So Lurser and Batour's breasts don't make it into the trailer.

1629
01:11:45.000 --> 01:11:46.560
They should.

1630
01:11:46.619 --> 01:11:50.159
A few more people would have got a watch. such great.

1631
01:11:50.220 --> 01:11:52.439
Somehow, they're sexy as hell.

1632
01:11:52.500 --> 01:11:53.279
I don't know how they do that.

1633
01:11:53.340 --> 01:11:54.300
Oh, they're tremendous.

1634
01:11:54.359 --> 01:11:55.920
I just love them. really, really good.

1635
01:11:55.979 --> 01:11:57.479
That was a terrific choice.

1636
01:11:57.479 --> 01:12:01.680
And they're pure next gen villains, and they're comprehensible to

1637
01:12:01.680 --> 01:12:04.800
a film audience who you haven't seen next gen, but maybe have seen

1638
01:12:04.800 --> 01:12:06.420
the films because they're Klingon women.

1639
01:12:06.479 --> 01:12:07.859
We know what Klingons are like.

1640
01:12:07.920 --> 01:12:10.680
I think it's... was a massive celebration of them last year

1641
01:12:10.680 --> 01:12:13.140
because one of the actresses died last year.

1642
01:12:13.199 --> 01:12:13.800
Oh, okay.

1643
01:12:13.800 --> 01:12:17.699
So there was this great celebration of Lerser and Bait, all these

1644
01:12:17.699 --> 01:12:18.840
2 sexy Klingons.

1645
01:12:19.380 --> 01:12:21.060
They're great.

1646
01:12:21.180 --> 01:12:23.520
Klingon women in the original series.

1647
01:12:23.579 --> 01:12:24.600
I don't think we did, do we?

1648
01:12:24.659 --> 01:12:26.939
No, I don't know.

1649
01:12:27.000 --> 01:12:27.539
I don't know.

1650
01:12:28.020 --> 01:12:31.140
Oh, are they the 1st Klingon women?

1651
01:12:31.199 --> 01:12:32.699
Don't know.

1652
01:12:32.760 --> 01:12:33.659
Don't know.

1653
01:12:33.720 --> 01:12:35.399
Like in substantial roles.

1654
01:12:35.460 --> 01:12:37.199
Oh my god.

1655
01:12:37.260 --> 01:12:38.159
Dr. Bev.

1656
01:12:38.220 --> 01:12:39.840
I'm now into the movie.

1657
01:12:39.899 --> 01:12:42.779
I was wondering why she was here, but she's here, obviously, to

1658
01:12:42.779 --> 01:12:47.100
treat Geordie, and there's no cigar there, but she doesn't get any

1659
01:12:47.100 --> 01:12:48.539
lines, but she's at least there.

1660
01:12:48.600 --> 01:12:51.479
Oh, I love Nurser Gow. too.

1661
01:12:51.539 --> 01:12:54.180
Alyssa, as she's known as her friends. you know?

1662
01:12:54.239 --> 01:12:55.079
Yeah.

1663
01:12:55.140 --> 01:12:56.220
After lower decks.

1664
01:12:57.359 --> 01:13:01.800
Now, I did like this location, which I believe is filmed in Las

1665
01:13:01.800 --> 01:13:04.319
Vegas or somewhere nice in America.

1666
01:13:04.380 --> 01:13:08.880
Again, I think that they had intended to go further afield and

1667
01:13:08.880 --> 01:13:11.460
stuff, but ended up not being able to afford that.

1668
01:13:11.520 --> 01:13:13.979
But I think this looks pretty good.

1669
01:13:14.159 --> 01:13:16.920
It does look good, but we're here.

1670
01:13:16.979 --> 01:13:22.140
There's too much footage, and after a while, it gets a bit dull on

1671
01:13:22.140 --> 01:13:25.020
the eye because it is, it's always sort of Mac colours, isn't it?

1672
01:13:25.079 --> 01:13:26.279
It's not very striking colours.

1673
01:13:26.460 --> 01:13:28.800
Well, I think, yeah.

1674
01:13:28.859 --> 01:13:33.119
So this is before a period of time where they can make alien

1675
01:13:33.119 --> 01:13:36.899
planets look actually alien, like we can't actually do that at

1676
01:13:36.899 --> 01:13:38.579
this and we will do it later.

1677
01:13:38.640 --> 01:13:40.380
And we can do it on TV.

1678
01:13:40.439 --> 01:13:43.020
See, this is the other thing that's becoming really kind of

1679
01:13:43.020 --> 01:13:47.880
apparent is, you know, the boundary now between TV and movies has

1680
01:13:47.880 --> 01:13:49.380
collapsed a bit.

1681
01:13:49.439 --> 01:13:54.239
And now we have TV shows that are very, very expensive and that

1682
01:13:54.239 --> 01:13:55.500
look as good as movies.

1683
01:13:55.560 --> 01:13:59.579
And because we have huge ass televisions in our home, we can kind

1684
01:13:59.579 --> 01:14:02.699
of enjoy them without, you know, sitting next to someone on their

1685
01:14:02.699 --> 01:14:03.119
phone.

1686
01:14:03.180 --> 01:14:06.899
Well, we probably do enjoy them with someone sitting next to us. on

1687
01:14:06.899 --> 01:14:07.260
their phone.

1688
01:14:07.319 --> 01:14:10.800
But whatever, you know, like, um, whereas here...

1689
01:14:10.859 --> 01:14:14.460
I think the boundary is obviously there, but I don't think it's as

1690
01:14:14.460 --> 01:14:16.199
big as it should be here.

1691
01:14:16.199 --> 01:14:19.199
Because like you go back and watch Arena, fine.

1692
01:14:19.260 --> 01:14:21.779
It's not done on the wide lenses and things like that, but they

1693
01:14:21.779 --> 01:14:23.520
are in a similar sort of landscape.

1694
01:14:23.579 --> 01:14:24.600
Yeah, yeah.

1695
01:14:24.659 --> 01:14:25.739
Yeah, it's a fairly cheap.

1696
01:14:25.800 --> 01:14:27.479
It's very achievable, honestly.

1697
01:14:27.539 --> 01:14:28.859
Yeah, yeah.

1698
01:14:28.920 --> 01:14:29.819
Oh, here we go.

1699
01:14:29.880 --> 01:14:34.979
Yeah, yeah, yeah I think they made Beverly look particularly

1700
01:14:34.979 --> 01:14:36.720
gorgeous to make this joke land.

1701
01:14:36.779 --> 01:14:41.760
But also just the looks on the women's faces like that's properly

1702
01:14:41.760 --> 01:14:42.180
funny.

1703
01:14:42.239 --> 01:14:42.659
Bless.

1704
01:14:42.720 --> 01:14:43.439
Oh, there you go.

1705
01:14:43.500 --> 01:14:44.460
Did we get a line?

1706
01:14:44.520 --> 01:14:46.140
No, we just got Alyssa smiling at him.

1707
01:14:47.100 --> 01:14:48.600
Yeah.

1708
01:14:48.659 --> 01:14:50.159
Yeah, no, I know.

1709
01:14:50.220 --> 01:14:51.359
Yeah, yeah.

1710
01:14:51.420 --> 01:14:54.779
There's that really hilarious moment where Picard goes into 10

1711
01:14:54.779 --> 01:14:59.640
forward and asks that bowling character where Soren is and the

1712
01:14:59.640 --> 01:15:03.899
bowling points and just sort of mouths something because he's not

1713
01:15:03.899 --> 01:15:08.760
being paid to deliver his life. one of the most sort of obvious

1714
01:15:08.760 --> 01:15:11.039
kind of, you know...

1715
01:15:12.000 --> 01:15:12.659
Did you see that?

1716
01:15:12.720 --> 01:15:15.539
Did you see that force field a minute ago when Picard tried to go

1717
01:15:15.539 --> 01:15:16.319
to war sorid.

1718
01:15:16.439 --> 01:15:19.020
Apparently they wrote in the script, we want the biggest sports

1719
01:15:19.020 --> 01:15:20.159
field. we've ever had.

1720
01:15:20.220 --> 01:15:22.439
May I say they succeeded?

1721
01:15:22.500 --> 01:15:25.439
Yeah, it just looks like a It does look a bit odd, though, on a

1722
01:15:25.439 --> 01:15:26.520
planet. crap.

1723
01:15:26.579 --> 01:15:31.380
Well, if it had been kind of like a hemisphere or something, you

1724
01:15:31.380 --> 01:15:33.840
know, like it would have sold it a bit better, but it's just a big

1725
01:15:33.840 --> 01:15:35.159
ass blur.

1726
01:15:35.279 --> 01:15:38.039
Do you know what's weird is this is was probably very expensive.

1727
01:15:38.100 --> 01:15:39.420
But I don't think it looks it.

1728
01:15:39.479 --> 01:15:42.960
No, it looks like it's some random bridge that they found on a

1729
01:15:42.960 --> 01:15:43.260
location.

1730
01:15:43.319 --> 01:15:45.359
They've just gone and acted on it.

1731
01:15:45.420 --> 01:15:50.640
Also, like that thing just looks like a Star Trek that X

1732
01:15:50.640 --> 01:15:55.680
Generation prop, like the big thing with its kind of, you know

1733
01:15:55.680 --> 01:15:57.060
like it's painted this...

1734
01:15:57.119 --> 01:16:00.300
Yeah, the rocket looks like it was on Deep Space 9 or something.

1735
01:16:00.359 --> 01:16:04.619
And like it's got that same kind of semi-gloss, non-reflective

1736
01:16:04.619 --> 01:16:05.819
surfaces thing.

1737
01:16:05.880 --> 01:16:06.359
Do you know what I mean?

1738
01:16:06.420 --> 01:16:10.079
Like it just looks like every other fucking prop. are you talking

1739
01:16:10.079 --> 01:16:10.319
about?

1740
01:16:10.380 --> 01:16:11.819
It was on the DS9 set last week.

1741
01:16:11.880 --> 01:16:13.020
They just picked it.

1742
01:16:13.079 --> 01:16:15.119
But that's what it looks like.

1743
01:16:15.180 --> 01:16:16.800
That is absolutely what it looks.

1744
01:16:18.840 --> 01:16:22.260
I just feel like they're going for something a bit more like

1745
01:16:22.260 --> 01:16:23.760
dramatic than what they're achieving.

1746
01:16:23.819 --> 01:16:25.739
And it's the same...

1747
01:16:25.739 --> 01:16:29.279
Here are the same... huge...

1748
01:16:29.279 --> 01:16:32.880
Techlobabble ribbon of energy. that's tearing towards the planet

1749
01:16:32.880 --> 01:16:34.739
but there's a rocket that's waiting to go up.

1750
01:16:34.800 --> 01:16:39.060
The octagonal crates, the octagonal crates that have been in it.

1751
01:16:39.119 --> 01:16:42.180
You know, like it's just the same old shit.

1752
01:16:42.239 --> 01:16:45.479
Look, there's that pal, but fell a wolf that time.

1753
01:16:45.539 --> 01:16:46.319
Do you remember?

1754
01:16:46.380 --> 01:16:48.180
that's right That's exactly right.

1755
01:16:49.800 --> 01:16:52.619
This thing in the cage is a bit better.

1756
01:16:52.619 --> 01:16:53.520
British actors here.

1757
01:16:53.640 --> 01:16:56.460
Like, and so this should absolutely pop.

1758
01:16:57.720 --> 01:16:59.399
It doesn't.

1759
01:16:59.460 --> 01:17:03.420
No, it's because the dialogue is really tried and we're having a

1760
01:17:03.420 --> 01:17:07.260
philosophical conversation that's just very boring, you know.

1761
01:17:07.319 --> 01:17:11.640
It's our morality that defines us so...

1762
01:17:11.699 --> 01:17:12.180
You know.

1763
01:17:14.699 --> 01:17:18.300
What if I told you I found a new truth, Nathan?

1764
01:17:18.420 --> 01:17:21.060
It's just a nexus. soaring.

1765
01:17:21.420 --> 01:17:23.279
Oh, here we are.

1766
01:17:23.340 --> 01:17:24.180
Very odd.

1767
01:17:24.239 --> 01:17:25.920
We're back on that.

1768
01:17:25.979 --> 01:17:27.300
Yeah, see this sort of comedy scene.

1769
01:17:27.539 --> 01:17:29.520
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

1770
01:17:29.579 --> 01:17:31.619
They're just tracking Geordie around the ship.

1771
01:17:32.340 --> 01:17:34.619
Oh, but you know what, right?

1772
01:17:34.680 --> 01:17:35.520
These POV shots.

1773
01:17:35.579 --> 01:17:37.380
I swear we've had shorts like that in the next generation.

1774
01:17:37.380 --> 01:17:38.819
I'm walking around the ship like that.

1775
01:17:38.880 --> 01:17:40.500
No, no, no. isn't that?

1776
01:17:40.560 --> 01:17:43.079
I think you've spotted it, it is the mind's eye, isn't it?

1777
01:17:43.140 --> 01:17:44.039
Oh, you see.

1778
01:17:44.100 --> 01:17:48.539
Now these again, I don't think this comes off at all, but I

1779
01:17:48.539 --> 01:17:50.100
secretly kind of like it.

1780
01:17:50.220 --> 01:17:53.220
And I do love the...

1781
01:17:53.340 --> 01:17:57.359
Yeah, but I do also like his line, I love scanning for life forms

1782
01:17:57.359 --> 01:17:58.800
which I think is really great.

1783
01:17:58.859 --> 01:18:02.760
And if they've been playing data as not an asshole when he gets

1784
01:18:02.760 --> 01:18:06.060
his emotion chip, He's discovery that he loves doing this

1785
01:18:06.060 --> 01:18:07.439
important part of his job.

1786
01:18:07.500 --> 01:18:09.119
I think he's terribly sweet.

1787
01:18:09.180 --> 01:18:13.800
But I don't I don't mind a little... everybody in the set is

1788
01:18:13.800 --> 01:18:17.399
looking over and gathering and it's like every joke in this swing

1789
01:18:17.399 --> 01:18:18.420
is fucking laboured.

1790
01:18:18.479 --> 01:18:20.100
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1791
01:18:20.159 --> 01:18:24.479
The one joke I thought landed brilliantly, was, and you love a bit

1792
01:18:24.479 --> 01:18:26.579
of swearing in Star Trek is when you go there.

1793
01:18:26.640 --> 01:18:27.539
Oh, shit.

1794
01:18:27.600 --> 01:18:30.060
I know, I thought that's something a bit different.

1795
01:18:30.119 --> 01:18:30.779
Yeah.

1796
01:18:30.840 --> 01:18:32.939
Yeah. that works quite well.

1797
01:18:33.300 --> 01:18:36.539
But what is this whole subplot with Lusser and Beta?

1798
01:18:36.600 --> 01:18:37.319
Is it just killing time?

1799
01:18:37.439 --> 01:18:40.619
Um, yeah, I don't know.

1800
01:18:41.100 --> 01:18:43.260
Are they trying to achieve?

1801
01:18:43.319 --> 01:18:45.899
Well, I think they want the weapon, don't they?

1802
01:18:45.960 --> 01:18:49.800
So Soren's developed a weapon that can destroy stars and they want

1803
01:18:49.800 --> 01:18:50.100
it.

1804
01:18:51.180 --> 01:18:57.720
So they can destroy stars and take over the Klingon Empire again, I

1805
01:18:57.720 --> 01:18:58.079
suppose.

1806
01:18:58.140 --> 01:18:59.460
Oh, right, okay.

1807
01:18:59.520 --> 01:19:03.119
Yeah, they were always up to that in the next generation, weren't

1808
01:19:03.119 --> 01:19:03.300
they?

1809
01:19:03.359 --> 01:19:05.699
Well, they were always trying to take over the Klingon Empire

1810
01:19:05.699 --> 01:19:06.119
weren't they?

1811
01:19:06.239 --> 01:19:08.880
Because they were the sisters of Duras and he was trying to do

1812
01:19:08.880 --> 01:19:09.060
it.

1813
01:19:09.119 --> 01:19:13.500
I can love that periscope that they pulled down on. is it?

1814
01:19:13.560 --> 01:19:15.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah. pretty great.

1815
01:19:15.479 --> 01:19:16.199
Here we go.

1816
01:19:16.260 --> 01:19:17.819
Now we get some action.

1817
01:19:17.880 --> 01:19:19.920
Do you know, one fella in a minute?

1818
01:19:19.979 --> 01:19:23.159
He literally, in slow motion, goes straight over the tactical

1819
01:19:23.159 --> 01:19:23.640
console.

1820
01:19:23.699 --> 01:19:26.100
Yeah, fuck, I hate that.

1821
01:19:26.159 --> 01:19:27.720
Why are we doing so emotion for that?

1822
01:19:29.520 --> 01:19:32.399
I just saw rocks come out of that console.

1823
01:19:32.460 --> 01:19:33.600
I know.

1824
01:19:33.659 --> 01:19:38.340
And I'm there the whole time thinking about what I said about how

1825
01:19:38.340 --> 01:19:44.340
it is just a shitty, cheap way of portraying peril during a space

1826
01:19:44.340 --> 01:19:47.760
battle is that they're still doing it in the movies.

1827
01:19:47.819 --> 01:19:51.720
Yeah, it turns out we're all doing our jobs next to things that

1828
01:19:51.720 --> 01:19:54.899
will just explode. you know, like.

1829
01:19:55.380 --> 01:19:55.859
But you know why?

1830
01:19:55.920 --> 01:19:58.380
David Carson directed yesterday's Enterprise.

1831
01:19:58.439 --> 01:19:59.819
That was the 1st appearance of the rocks.

1832
01:19:59.880 --> 01:20:02.279
You can't quite get out of the mindset, you know.

1833
01:20:02.340 --> 01:20:03.420
Honestly.

1834
01:20:03.479 --> 01:20:07.439
But it's like, if a console's going to explode, you're going to

1835
01:20:07.439 --> 01:20:08.640
have half a quarry in your face.

1836
01:20:08.699 --> 01:20:11.279
But yeah, it just makes no sense.

1837
01:20:11.340 --> 01:20:14.460
They stuff them full of knives and rocks and then make them

1838
01:20:14.460 --> 01:20:15.420
explosive.

1839
01:20:15.479 --> 01:20:16.739
Like they're not properly insulated.

1840
01:20:16.800 --> 01:20:17.760
It's very crab.

1841
01:20:18.539 --> 01:20:23.220
Do we do we cut away from the action for a bit and have some

1842
01:20:23.220 --> 01:20:25.859
scenes in the nexus and then we go back to that or does this whole

1843
01:20:25.859 --> 01:20:27.960
action sequence play out with the Enterprise crashing?

1844
01:20:28.020 --> 01:20:29.039
Yeah, no, no.

1845
01:20:29.100 --> 01:20:35.640
Remember that the ship crashes and then the nexus hits, the nexus

1846
01:20:35.640 --> 01:20:39.779
hits the planet, then we're in the nexus, and then we leave the

1847
01:20:39.779 --> 01:20:41.760
nexus and the ship crashes again.

1848
01:20:41.819 --> 01:20:43.319
So we get to see that twice.

1849
01:20:43.439 --> 01:20:45.600
So this scene is finished.

1850
01:20:45.659 --> 01:20:48.000
We're going to crash as a result of what happens here.

1851
01:20:48.060 --> 01:20:51.659
Um, but, Yeah.

1852
01:20:51.840 --> 01:20:56.460
No, there was there was something a little moving about them

1853
01:20:56.460 --> 01:20:59.579
blowing the shit out of the sets, and it's weird that I say that's

1854
01:20:59.579 --> 01:21:01.319
the most moving thing about this movie.

1855
01:21:01.380 --> 01:21:04.560
Is your tactical guy going in slow motion, little thing?

1856
01:21:05.039 --> 01:21:08.159
And Moore and Braga say, look, that's the sort of thing we could

1857
01:21:08.159 --> 01:21:09.300
never do on TV.

1858
01:21:09.359 --> 01:21:13.199
But may I say I saw some slow motion rocks flying out as well.

1859
01:21:13.560 --> 01:21:16.260
Bravo, David Carlson.

1860
01:21:16.319 --> 01:21:17.100
Bravo.

1861
01:21:17.159 --> 01:21:17.939
Okay, we're going to kill them.

1862
01:21:18.060 --> 01:21:18.659
We going to kill them.

1863
01:21:18.720 --> 01:21:19.140
Fire.

1864
01:21:19.199 --> 01:21:21.420
He really made that happen.

1865
01:21:21.479 --> 01:21:24.000
I love the torpedo effect too.

1866
01:21:24.479 --> 01:21:27.960
Looks really good. the close-ups on their faces.

1867
01:21:29.039 --> 01:21:32.579
I bet it probably explodes everyone, doesn't it?

1868
01:21:32.699 --> 01:21:36.239
It leaves this in absolutely no doubt and there's that footage

1869
01:21:36.239 --> 01:21:37.439
from Star Trek 6.

1870
01:21:37.800 --> 01:21:39.960
Why does it keep using that?

1871
01:21:40.020 --> 01:21:41.399
They even use that in what you leave behind.

1872
01:21:41.460 --> 01:21:42.720
Do they?

1873
01:21:43.140 --> 01:21:46.800
It's the only sequence of a Klingon ship blowing up, so they've

1874
01:21:46.800 --> 01:21:47.699
got to keep...

1875
01:21:47.760 --> 01:21:51.479
See, this asshole's pretty excited in the background, like data is

1876
01:21:51.479 --> 01:21:53.760
as well, but, you know, like all of these people have just been

1877
01:21:53.760 --> 01:21:55.020
exploded.

1878
01:21:55.140 --> 01:21:55.800
More than crack I say.

1879
01:21:55.859 --> 01:21:56.699
This was a massive thing.

1880
01:21:56.760 --> 01:22:01.920
That brick Durban was pissed because that fellow goes, yes, before

1881
01:22:01.920 --> 01:22:03.840
Data said, yes, so it draws your eye.

1882
01:22:03.840 --> 01:22:06.899
And they were talking about going back and reshooting, that

1883
01:22:06.899 --> 01:22:07.199
thing.

1884
01:22:07.199 --> 01:22:10.680
Because the extra did that.

1885
01:22:10.739 --> 01:22:12.060
It stole the moment.

1886
01:22:12.119 --> 01:22:14.220
He's like, I'm going to take this moment from Brent Spiner.

1887
01:22:14.279 --> 01:22:17.340
I might be a day player, but I'll be remembered.

1888
01:22:21.060 --> 01:22:24.720
Nathan, we're having to find joy in this movie, you know, wherever

1889
01:22:24.720 --> 01:22:25.199
we can.

1890
01:22:25.260 --> 01:22:30.420
No, no, you know, like it's still, like, I'm, you know, it is kind

1891
01:22:30.420 --> 01:22:34.140
of boring and it obviously doesn't work in any sort of sensible

1892
01:22:34.140 --> 01:22:38.159
way, but it's still Star Trek and I love Star Trek, so I've got a

1893
01:22:38.159 --> 01:22:38.760
podcast.

1894
01:22:38.939 --> 01:22:43.680
I would like to sort of compare it to six, which had political

1895
01:22:43.680 --> 01:22:44.939
entry.

1896
01:22:45.000 --> 01:22:47.819
We spanned the entire galaxy.

1897
01:22:47.880 --> 01:22:49.140
We went to ice planets.

1898
01:22:49.199 --> 01:22:50.939
We had...

1899
01:22:51.119 --> 01:22:53.399
This is a step down from that.

1900
01:22:53.460 --> 01:22:54.899
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1901
01:22:55.020 --> 01:22:58.079
I went and saw that in the cinema and it was like Boxing Day.

1902
01:22:58.140 --> 01:23:01.140
It was released here in Australia, so we were just all kind of

1903
01:23:01.140 --> 01:23:01.920
what we do.

1904
01:23:01.979 --> 01:23:03.720
Let's go and watch the next Star Trek film.

1905
01:23:03.779 --> 01:23:06.119
And I think I was into Star Trek The Next Generation at that

1906
01:23:06.119 --> 01:23:06.359
point.

1907
01:23:06.420 --> 01:23:09.479
So I told everyone, let's go and watch the new Star Trek film.

1908
01:23:09.479 --> 01:23:12.420
And it's a properly good, enjoyable film, you know, in a way that

1909
01:23:12.420 --> 01:23:14.399
doesn't require a lot of good stuff.

1910
01:23:14.520 --> 01:23:18.840
I cannot remember a bloody line from this, but I can't believe I

1911
01:23:18.840 --> 01:23:19.739
kiss myself.

1912
01:23:19.800 --> 01:23:21.300
It must have been your lifelong ambition.

1913
01:23:21.359 --> 01:23:21.899
You know?

1914
01:23:23.819 --> 01:23:27.840
So much fun Oh, you know what?

1915
01:23:27.899 --> 01:23:29.640
Geordie La Forge gets to do that. fabulous.

1916
01:23:29.699 --> 01:23:32.039
You know, when the shield comes down in engineering, he gets to do

1917
01:23:32.039 --> 01:23:33.060
the roles under it.

1918
01:23:33.119 --> 01:23:34.800
Just as it all blows up.

1919
01:23:34.800 --> 01:23:39.359
This isn't the 1st time he says, cool and leak, we've got to call

1920
01:23:39.359 --> 01:23:40.020
it leak.

1921
01:23:40.079 --> 01:23:43.260
You know, is it, like, I'm sure that he's called out about a

1922
01:23:43.260 --> 01:23:44.159
coolant leak before.

1923
01:23:44.220 --> 01:23:45.300
Bless him.

1924
01:23:45.359 --> 01:23:46.920
I think they've redone that.

1925
01:23:46.920 --> 01:23:49.260
He's been rolling under those shields for 7 seasons.

1926
01:23:49.380 --> 01:23:51.000
So great.

1927
01:23:51.119 --> 01:23:53.340
They're basically doing...

1928
01:23:53.460 --> 01:23:56.640
I hate to say it, they are doing all the same tricks and, aren't

1929
01:23:56.640 --> 01:23:56.819
they?

1930
01:23:56.880 --> 01:23:59.460
Okay, so this kid, I think, has a tribble.

1931
01:23:59.520 --> 01:24:02.640
One of the kids is walking along and he's got a white fluffy ball

1932
01:24:02.640 --> 01:24:04.920
which I think can only be a triple.

1933
01:24:06.119 --> 01:24:11.340
You know, Brandon Bracko really criticises the factable. that

1934
01:24:11.340 --> 01:24:13.560
there are kids on the ship and he says, you know, I never quite

1935
01:24:13.560 --> 01:24:17.640
understood why Gene Roddenbury chose to have families on the ship

1936
01:24:17.640 --> 01:24:20.279
when, you know, every time we have an action sequence.

1937
01:24:20.340 --> 01:24:21.359
It doesn't make any bloody sense.

1938
01:24:21.420 --> 01:24:22.739
No.

1939
01:24:22.739 --> 01:24:24.899
He goes, but do you know what?

1940
01:24:24.960 --> 01:24:29.039
We spectacularly managed to forget that every week. until it

1941
01:24:29.039 --> 01:24:29.699
became relevant again.

1942
01:24:29.760 --> 01:24:31.680
Yeah, and they have to do it here.

1943
01:24:31.800 --> 01:24:34.739
But there's a little girl here and she's got a teddy and it just

1944
01:24:34.739 --> 01:24:37.619
shits me that no one goes to pick up the teddy after.

1945
01:24:37.680 --> 01:24:40.680
Like, come on, they're sort of strolling in this leisurely way

1946
01:24:40.680 --> 01:24:41.939
through these corridors.

1947
01:24:41.939 --> 01:24:44.399
Um, where it's coming, it's coming.

1948
01:24:44.520 --> 01:24:48.180
Yeah, drop the teddy and then they just all walk over the teddy

1949
01:24:48.180 --> 01:24:50.819
and the kid's crying and he wants, she wants to know where a teddy

1950
01:24:50.819 --> 01:24:51.539
is. bless her.

1951
01:24:51.600 --> 01:24:53.939
I've got her name here, that child.

1952
01:24:54.000 --> 01:24:59.819
She's probably 30 by now and she is Brittany Parker. domestic

1953
01:24:59.819 --> 01:25:03.060
angle to the show, the sort of the desperation of getting the kids

1954
01:25:03.060 --> 01:25:04.020
out and all of that.

1955
01:25:04.079 --> 01:25:07.260
And they never ever touched on that in Next Generation, did they?

1956
01:25:07.319 --> 01:25:10.319
Do you remember the opening sequence of emissary in Do Space

1957
01:25:10.319 --> 01:25:10.680
Nine?

1958
01:25:10.739 --> 01:25:14.220
where they're on that ship and you have those sequences, play out

1959
01:25:14.220 --> 01:25:17.460
on the ship, of the families milling about, people clutching their

1960
01:25:17.460 --> 01:25:20.279
kids, and it felt so fresh and different from the next

1961
01:25:20.279 --> 01:25:20.760
generation.

1962
01:25:20.819 --> 01:25:23.819
It feels a bit weird in the next generation, you know.

1963
01:25:23.880 --> 01:25:25.140
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1964
01:25:25.199 --> 01:25:27.539
Even though it's the premise of that show.

1965
01:25:27.600 --> 01:25:30.539
So the next Enterprise, the Enterprise A, he doesn't have families

1966
01:25:30.539 --> 01:25:32.340
on it and they don't do that again.

1967
01:25:32.399 --> 01:25:36.180
And I think it was because it was going to be a TV show and they

1968
01:25:36.180 --> 01:25:39.899
were going to have to do 26 episodes a year and they would have to

1969
01:25:39.899 --> 01:25:43.680
kind of have, you know, it was another opportunity to tell stories

1970
01:25:43.680 --> 01:25:45.600
about the characters lives, I guess.

1971
01:25:45.659 --> 01:25:46.500
Oh, Nathan.

1972
01:25:46.560 --> 01:25:48.119
Sorry to interrupt, but you know what?

1973
01:25:48.180 --> 01:25:50.819
Did you see him take those rocks out of that wall a 2nd ago

1974
01:25:50.819 --> 01:25:51.239
Picard?

1975
01:25:51.300 --> 01:25:55.079
That has so clearly been assembled for him to crawl through.

1976
01:25:55.260 --> 01:25:57.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1977
01:25:57.359 --> 01:26:00.479
And Berman and Bragger go, why didn't we cut this shot?

1978
01:26:00.539 --> 01:26:01.380
Look at that.

1979
01:26:01.439 --> 01:26:04.680
They've just put a load of rocks for him to crawl through the

1980
01:26:04.680 --> 01:26:04.979
hole.

1981
01:26:05.819 --> 01:26:10.079
So this source of separation sequences from a counter at FarPoint

1982
01:26:10.079 --> 01:26:12.899
or the very beginning of it, I don't think that shot is, but the

1983
01:26:12.899 --> 01:26:15.420
very beginning of it is from an encounter at FarPoint.

1984
01:26:15.479 --> 01:26:18.720
And the thing is that they made such a huge fucking deal about it

1985
01:26:18.720 --> 01:26:22.739
in Encounter at FarPoint, that you always kind of wanted it to

1986
01:26:22.739 --> 01:26:23.039
happen.

1987
01:26:23.100 --> 01:26:24.060
Didn't you?

1988
01:26:24.119 --> 01:26:25.800
You kind of think, well, where did they separate us?

1989
01:26:25.859 --> 01:26:27.180
It happens once again, doesn't it?

1990
01:26:27.239 --> 01:26:28.920
Season one episode.

1991
01:26:28.979 --> 01:26:29.579
Yeah, yeah.

1992
01:26:29.640 --> 01:26:30.840
But then they never kind of do it.

1993
01:26:30.899 --> 01:26:33.420
But then after that, they never ever bothered.

1994
01:26:33.479 --> 01:26:36.659
Oh man, this whole, now look, they even make the joke on the

1995
01:26:36.659 --> 01:26:39.600
commentary about Troy being at the console, you know, as the ship

1996
01:26:39.600 --> 01:26:40.079
crashes.

1997
01:26:40.140 --> 01:26:42.420
This terrible woman's women's.

1998
01:26:42.479 --> 01:26:44.220
I mean, I'm glad no one says it in the actual film.

1999
01:26:44.279 --> 01:26:46.739
No, because she's not it's not her fault.

2000
01:26:46.800 --> 01:26:50.279
Like, it's like the glass cliff, you know, like when a party's

2001
01:26:50.279 --> 01:26:52.680
about to be voted out of office.

2002
01:26:52.739 --> 01:26:56.340
They say, oh, we'll let a woman have a go at running things for a

2003
01:26:56.340 --> 01:26:57.899
while so they can be voted.

2004
01:26:57.960 --> 01:27:00.119
Ironically, she's never been at that console before.

2005
01:27:00.180 --> 01:27:01.260
The 2nd she's at it.

2006
01:27:01.380 --> 01:27:04.260
Well, the ship crashes and is destroyed.

2007
01:27:04.979 --> 01:27:08.100
But the ship's crashed because they got shot at by Lurser and

2008
01:27:08.100 --> 01:27:08.520
Bitor.

2009
01:27:08.579 --> 01:27:11.220
Oh, you mean... and the people are stupid.

2010
01:27:11.279 --> 01:27:12.779
People are stupid.

2011
01:27:12.840 --> 01:27:15.300
They'll make they'll make the link between her and the console and

2012
01:27:15.300 --> 01:27:17.819
the ship going down and say, well, it's all Troy's fault.

2013
01:27:17.880 --> 01:27:18.840
Yeah, no.

2014
01:27:19.560 --> 01:27:24.539
I've got to say that, the the model work that they do of the the

2015
01:27:24.539 --> 01:27:26.699
saucer section crashing into the planet.

2016
01:27:27.000 --> 01:27:31.380
I mean, I can't tell it's modern work, but it is spectacularly

2017
01:27:31.380 --> 01:27:31.800
good.

2018
01:27:31.859 --> 01:27:32.880
It looks terrific.

2019
01:27:32.939 --> 01:27:37.260
And this is... sorry. since from the beginning of the movie, the

2020
01:27:37.260 --> 01:27:39.659
Kirk scenes, this is the best part of the movie.

2021
01:27:39.720 --> 01:27:40.500
Yeah.

2022
01:27:40.500 --> 01:27:41.640
Yeah.

2023
01:27:41.699 --> 01:27:43.020
Yeah, well, there's some action.

2024
01:27:43.079 --> 01:27:45.420
I mean, there's no stakes. everyone's gonna be fine.

2025
01:27:45.479 --> 01:27:49.140
But, um, like it looks so good, doesn't it?

2026
01:27:49.199 --> 01:27:50.640
And so they're actually.

2027
01:27:50.760 --> 01:27:53.939
Well, this actually does play out like those scenes in emissary

2028
01:27:53.939 --> 01:27:55.619
just obviously with a bigger budget, you know.

2029
01:27:55.680 --> 01:27:56.279
Yeah.

2030
01:27:56.340 --> 01:28:04.739
So this shot here, that's a model and they're on location.

2031
01:28:04.800 --> 01:28:06.720
They're outside, so the sky is real.

2032
01:28:06.960 --> 01:28:11.279
And this is a little model forest thing.

2033
01:28:11.340 --> 01:28:12.840
Yeah, but it's real.

2034
01:28:13.319 --> 01:28:15.659
It's real funny.

2035
01:28:15.720 --> 01:28:16.380
Yeah.

2036
01:28:16.439 --> 01:28:20.220
I think that the shots that we see on the enterprise screen are

2037
01:28:20.220 --> 01:28:23.460
just, you know, helicopter shots over an actual forest to help

2038
01:28:23.460 --> 01:28:24.000
sell it.

2039
01:28:24.060 --> 01:28:26.520
But it looks great.

2040
01:28:26.579 --> 01:28:29.399
I was going to say in this because I know you can do spectacular

2041
01:28:29.399 --> 01:28:32.579
things of CGI. and we've seen it in Kersman Trek.

2042
01:28:32.640 --> 01:28:37.619
But there is just something very tangible about model work, you

2043
01:28:37.619 --> 01:28:37.800
know?

2044
01:28:38.220 --> 01:28:41.579
Oh, look at that as it crashes into.

2045
01:28:41.579 --> 01:28:45.420
And all the mud lifts up in slow motion.

2046
01:28:45.539 --> 01:28:47.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2047
01:28:47.399 --> 01:28:50.520
It takes such a long time to come to rest, doesn't it?

2048
01:28:50.699 --> 01:28:52.920
Yeah, I think it's great.

2049
01:28:52.979 --> 01:28:54.659
Man, 0 man.

2050
01:28:54.720 --> 01:28:57.180
If they did this in the actual series, it would just would have

2051
01:28:57.180 --> 01:28:59.100
been the best set piece ever, wouldn't it?

2052
01:28:59.159 --> 01:29:00.600
Yeah.

2053
01:29:02.100 --> 01:29:04.140
And it is great.

2054
01:29:04.199 --> 01:29:07.619
I love the fact we cut to Sick Bay.

2055
01:29:07.680 --> 01:29:09.300
We cut to engineering.

2056
01:29:09.359 --> 01:29:11.880
We cut to people, things exploding.

2057
01:29:13.260 --> 01:29:15.960
Yeah, and we're trashing them.

2058
01:29:15.960 --> 01:29:19.920
Whenever there was an action sequence on the Enterprise in the TV

2059
01:29:19.920 --> 01:29:20.460
series.

2060
01:29:20.520 --> 01:29:22.140
We never thought about that stuff, did we?

2061
01:29:22.199 --> 01:29:22.800
We never.

2062
01:29:22.859 --> 01:29:24.600
It was always on the bridge.

2063
01:29:25.079 --> 01:29:30.600
I also like how data seems to be hugging Marina and Marina's a bit

2064
01:29:30.600 --> 01:29:31.140
distressed.

2065
01:29:31.199 --> 01:29:34.199
But you kind of think, well, she could have, he could have been

2066
01:29:34.199 --> 01:29:35.159
hugging Wharf.

2067
01:29:35.220 --> 01:29:36.060
That would have been.

2068
01:29:36.359 --> 01:29:37.619
Oh, she thinks she's going to be out of work.

2069
01:29:37.680 --> 01:29:38.159
That's why.

2070
01:29:38.220 --> 01:29:39.239
The ship's good.

2071
01:29:39.359 --> 01:29:41.399
Completely destroyed.

2072
01:29:42.840 --> 01:29:47.100
I've got to say, you know, there is a sequence in the Blake 7

2073
01:29:47.100 --> 01:29:51.779
episode, Blake, where the final episode crashes down into a fire.

2074
01:29:51.840 --> 01:29:55.380
And it's actually, okay, of course it looks shit compared to this

2075
01:29:55.439 --> 01:29:58.020
much techniques.

2076
01:29:58.079 --> 01:30:00.420
The techniques that they're using though are pretty similar.

2077
01:30:00.479 --> 01:30:01.140
Yeah.

2078
01:30:01.199 --> 01:30:01.800
Yeah.

2079
01:30:02.100 --> 01:30:04.800
Yeah, it does look much shiter though.

2080
01:30:04.979 --> 01:30:10.800
So in generations, you don't have part of the deck springing up in

2081
01:30:10.800 --> 01:30:13.199
the air with someone sliding down into the guts of the ship.

2082
01:30:13.260 --> 01:30:15.119
What the hell is that?

2083
01:30:17.880 --> 01:30:21.180
So, all right, we're all coming too.

2084
01:30:22.260 --> 01:30:25.739
But I think this is the point of the movie where actually I was

2085
01:30:25.739 --> 01:30:29.399
like, oh shit, they've done something different here. things are

2086
01:30:29.399 --> 01:30:30.539
not going to be the same again.

2087
01:30:30.600 --> 01:30:32.100
Yeah, yeah.

2088
01:30:32.159 --> 01:30:33.300
And that's what you should be doing.

2089
01:30:33.359 --> 01:30:34.020
There's that shot.

2090
01:30:34.079 --> 01:30:35.640
Yeah, it's wonderful.

2091
01:30:35.640 --> 01:30:38.939
And then, and then there's a, there's a pan up over the saucer

2092
01:30:38.939 --> 01:30:43.859
here with all of the, um, people around the saucer.

2093
01:30:43.979 --> 01:30:46.020
Yeah, it's fabulous.

2094
01:30:46.079 --> 01:30:47.460
Now this feels like a movie.

2095
01:30:47.520 --> 01:30:48.779
Yeah.

2096
01:30:48.840 --> 01:30:49.380
That's right.

2097
01:30:49.439 --> 01:30:49.800
Yep.

2098
01:30:50.880 --> 01:30:55.380
But for me to have to say that, an hour and a half into the movie

2099
01:30:55.380 --> 01:30:57.180
you know, how far we are in.

2100
01:30:57.239 --> 01:31:02.279
But it's also, like, part of the problem is too, like, remember

2101
01:31:02.279 --> 01:31:05.880
they've done it already in Star Trek 3.

2102
01:31:06.180 --> 01:31:07.500
Right?

2103
01:31:07.560 --> 01:31:11.699
So they've already destroyed the enterprise and they lure the

2104
01:31:11.699 --> 01:31:16.020
Klingons on and they self-destruct the ship.

2105
01:31:17.520 --> 01:31:18.899
Yeah.

2106
01:31:18.960 --> 01:31:20.460
And so that's how they solve the problem.

2107
01:31:20.520 --> 01:31:21.119
It a big thing.

2108
01:31:21.180 --> 01:31:26.340
Here it's just like a very well aimed space torpedo and the ship

2109
01:31:26.340 --> 01:31:27.420
just comes down.

2110
01:31:27.479 --> 01:31:31.439
And so it doesn't, it's not super earned, you know, like it's not

2111
01:31:31.439 --> 01:31:32.939
earned.

2112
01:31:33.000 --> 01:31:35.579
And I think that's the problem with all of this.

2113
01:31:35.640 --> 01:31:38.039
So, like...

2114
01:31:38.039 --> 01:31:41.819
Like, there's a fist.

2115
01:31:41.819 --> 01:31:42.960
I see what you're saying.

2116
01:31:43.020 --> 01:31:43.979
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2117
01:31:44.039 --> 01:31:45.300
So we've got this fist.

2118
01:31:45.359 --> 01:31:47.340
Nothing's a payoff to stuff that's been set up.

2119
01:31:47.399 --> 01:31:48.000
That's right.

2120
01:31:48.060 --> 01:31:48.539
That's right.

2121
01:31:48.600 --> 01:31:49.319
That's right.

2122
01:31:49.439 --> 01:31:52.619
We've already said here that the threat is to people that we

2123
01:31:52.619 --> 01:31:55.260
aren't going to see that we've never seen, that we don't care

2124
01:31:55.260 --> 01:31:55.739
about.

2125
01:31:55.800 --> 01:31:59.520
We're just supposed to be impressed by this big number, and that

2126
01:31:59.520 --> 01:32:01.619
makes us think this matters.

2127
01:32:01.619 --> 01:32:07.500
In a 2nd, we're going to see a shot of the sourcer section with

2128
01:32:07.500 --> 01:32:10.859
people milling around on it and then it's destroyed.

2129
01:32:12.300 --> 01:32:17.399
But that doesn't seem to land or matter, and certainly no one in

2130
01:32:17.399 --> 01:32:20.760
the film seems to be aware that it's happened.

2131
01:32:20.819 --> 01:32:23.460
And of course, it'll be reversed and that's fine.

2132
01:32:23.520 --> 01:32:24.720
Like, I'm okay with that.

2133
01:32:24.779 --> 01:32:31.739
Um, And and just this guy, it's just one asshole, you know, who's

2134
01:32:31.739 --> 01:32:36.119
firing a missile and we need 2 people to kind of successfully

2135
01:32:36.119 --> 01:32:37.800
punch him unconscious or something.

2136
01:32:37.859 --> 01:32:42.239
Like I just, you know, like, it's just not a big enough deal.

2137
01:32:42.479 --> 01:32:47.640
You've got 2 very uh, conflicting visuals here as well because

2138
01:32:47.640 --> 01:32:51.300
they're using cheap ass, day for night filters on the cameras to

2139
01:32:51.300 --> 01:32:54.000
suggest that the sun's gone out and that's very TV.

2140
01:32:54.060 --> 01:32:58.199
But then you've got this spectacular sequence of the ribbon coming

2141
01:32:58.199 --> 01:33:01.020
towards Soren, and that feels like it's slept out of a movie.

2142
01:33:01.079 --> 01:33:04.380
Again, it's that very, it's a weird mix this, isn't it?

2143
01:33:04.439 --> 01:33:05.399
Yeah, yeah.

2144
01:33:05.460 --> 01:33:08.340
Well, see, this shot is like the, there, look, look, there are the

2145
01:33:08.340 --> 01:33:11.100
people on top of the, on the source section, they're destroyed.

2146
01:33:11.159 --> 01:33:13.560
We get this shot of the planet being destroyed, which looks like

2147
01:33:13.560 --> 01:33:19.380
the Genesis device special effect from Star Trek 3 only better.

2148
01:33:19.500 --> 01:33:25.140
I couldn't see, but I think it was Nurse O'Gower and Mr. Mott on

2149
01:33:25.140 --> 01:33:26.760
top of the source section.

2150
01:33:26.880 --> 01:33:27.899
There are a few people.

2151
01:33:27.960 --> 01:33:29.220
No.

2152
01:33:29.279 --> 01:33:31.199
Nurse O'Gower's gone off with the kids.

2153
01:33:31.260 --> 01:33:32.220
She's a nurse.

2154
01:33:32.279 --> 01:33:32.939
Yeah.

2155
01:33:33.000 --> 01:33:34.619
Oh, no.

2156
01:33:34.680 --> 01:33:35.939
Oh Nathan.

2157
01:33:36.180 --> 01:33:39.899
Now, please tell me your story about when you mentioned watching

2158
01:33:39.899 --> 01:33:41.220
this movie with your friends.

2159
01:33:41.340 --> 01:33:46.500
So when I spoke to some of my fellow podcasters, my fellow FTE

2160
01:33:46.500 --> 01:33:51.600
hosts, and said that we were recording this, they all started to

2161
01:33:51.600 --> 01:33:55.680
do impressions of, they all started to say, you know, we love you

2162
01:33:55.680 --> 01:33:59.279
father, and stuff like that, doing impressions of these horrific

2163
01:33:59.279 --> 01:34:02.760
moppets that he imagines himself to be the father of.

2164
01:34:03.659 --> 01:34:08.340
It is a weird thing about 90s trek that every time they do

2165
01:34:08.340 --> 01:34:11.340
children, especially British children, they're so fucking

2166
01:34:11.340 --> 01:34:12.180
grotesque.

2167
01:34:12.180 --> 01:34:13.140
Awful.

2168
01:34:13.199 --> 01:34:14.880
Like, terror dress.

2169
01:34:14.880 --> 01:34:19.020
Like, these little princess frocks and stuff and she's dressed in

2170
01:34:19.020 --> 01:34:23.100
this sort of weird Victorian outfit for, like, known reasons.

2171
01:34:23.159 --> 01:34:24.600
It's dreadful.

2172
01:34:24.840 --> 01:34:30.300
Is this what Picard longs for, sort of Dickensian Christmas?

2173
01:34:30.420 --> 01:34:34.439
No, because he takes a hog on and goes and lies on the beach at

2174
01:34:34.439 --> 01:34:35.159
Riser.

2175
01:34:35.220 --> 01:34:37.319
He's DTF, Picard.

2176
01:34:37.380 --> 01:34:39.300
Why is his biggest fantasy?

2177
01:34:39.359 --> 01:34:44.159
that he has these horrible children. and there's, there's like 5

2178
01:34:44.159 --> 01:34:46.859
of them. and that's Renee, isn't it?

2179
01:34:46.920 --> 01:34:49.500
But it's weird because I think what they're going for is like sort

2180
01:34:49.500 --> 01:34:52.739
of idealised and picturesque, you know, picture perfect.

2181
01:34:52.800 --> 01:34:55.260
And yet it's just really disturbing to watch.

2182
01:34:55.380 --> 01:34:56.760
Yeah, it's gross.

2183
01:34:56.819 --> 01:34:58.739
The children are awful.

2184
01:34:58.800 --> 01:34:59.460
They're horrible.

2185
01:34:59.520 --> 01:35:01.319
I I, do you know what?

2186
01:35:01.380 --> 01:35:08.579
I like the doctor's family in real life better than this horrible

2187
01:35:08.579 --> 01:35:09.840
pretend family.

2188
01:35:09.960 --> 01:35:13.979
You know, even the perfect version of the doctor's children in

2189
01:35:13.979 --> 01:35:15.479
real life is better than this.

2190
01:35:15.539 --> 01:35:16.560
This is gross.

2191
01:35:16.619 --> 01:35:17.699
This is hell.

2192
01:35:17.760 --> 01:35:20.939
This is what, and, and, and he's drinking.

2193
01:35:21.000 --> 01:35:21.659
What's he drinking?

2194
01:35:21.720 --> 01:35:23.220
He's drinking a DJ stif or something?

2195
01:35:23.279 --> 01:35:25.619
He drinking a brandy after dinner, but he's going to have a cup of

2196
01:35:25.619 --> 01:35:26.520
tea in a second.

2197
01:35:26.640 --> 01:35:28.560
Like, no one's...

2198
01:35:28.619 --> 01:35:33.300
I feel like we know Picard pretty well by now, and we know that

2199
01:35:33.300 --> 01:35:35.039
this is not his fantasy life.

2200
01:35:35.100 --> 01:35:39.720
No, it's so unimaginative. so gross and it, it, like he's

2201
01:35:39.720 --> 01:35:42.600
deliberately chosen not to have a life like this.

2202
01:35:42.659 --> 01:35:45.779
He's chosen to go out and go on adventures.

2203
01:35:45.840 --> 01:35:47.699
Why is his fantasy?

2204
01:35:47.760 --> 01:35:51.600
So does the nexus sort of like try and make you stay by offering

2205
01:35:51.600 --> 01:35:54.720
you, you know, so what thought?

2206
01:35:54.779 --> 01:35:56.520
So it's so weird.

2207
01:35:56.579 --> 01:35:59.880
I mean, the thing is right.

2208
01:36:00.119 --> 01:36:04.319
We're told by Guynan in this interminable. sequence.

2209
01:36:04.380 --> 01:36:07.800
So is that that special Christmas order?

2210
01:36:07.859 --> 01:36:09.300
There's that weird Christmas bubble.

2211
01:36:09.359 --> 01:36:15.119
So is it meant to remind him that the star has just exploded?

2212
01:36:15.359 --> 01:36:17.340
No idea.

2213
01:36:17.399 --> 01:36:17.880
Yeah.

2214
01:36:17.939 --> 01:36:18.720
No idea.

2215
01:36:18.779 --> 01:36:22.739
At this point in the movie, I was like, what is going on now?

2216
01:36:22.800 --> 01:36:23.399
Oh, shoot.

2217
01:36:23.520 --> 01:36:27.239
But as well, because it rings so untrue to the characters as

2218
01:36:27.239 --> 01:36:27.420
well.

2219
01:36:27.479 --> 01:36:29.100
You've got no investment in this.

2220
01:36:29.159 --> 01:36:34.439
No, in fact, I think they do a better job of what Kirk's fantasy

2221
01:36:34.439 --> 01:36:35.159
might be like.

2222
01:36:35.220 --> 01:36:36.600
Actually I buy that.

2223
01:36:36.720 --> 01:36:41.939
I don't just him on the horse in a, in a big, lovely house in the

2224
01:36:41.939 --> 01:36:47.100
country with an attractive woman upstairs and, you know, like I

2225
01:36:47.100 --> 01:36:47.819
buy that.

2226
01:36:47.880 --> 01:36:51.479
It's made a bit more, um, a bit more realistic because we have

2227
01:36:51.479 --> 01:36:54.000
those lovely sequences in the Strange New Worlds pilot where

2228
01:36:54.000 --> 01:36:57.000
Captain Pike's down on the planet, in the house, in the middle of

2229
01:36:57.000 --> 01:36:57.479
nowhere.

2230
01:36:57.479 --> 01:36:57.960
And yeah.

2231
01:36:58.020 --> 01:37:00.840
Actually, if you've been travelling around space or you, you know

2232
01:37:00.840 --> 01:37:03.600
that is that, remember Cisco, you wanted that house on Bayshore

2233
01:37:03.600 --> 01:37:06.300
that you wanted to build, just a nice, quiet life with nobody

2234
01:37:06.300 --> 01:37:06.600
around.

2235
01:37:06.720 --> 01:37:11.039
Well, in fact, I think that the pike thing takes some

2236
01:37:11.039 --> 01:37:14.399
micronography from this film, doesn't it?

2237
01:37:14.460 --> 01:37:18.239
Like the reason that Pike lives in Montana or something, rural

2238
01:37:18.239 --> 01:37:21.359
Montana is because of where Kirk lived.

2239
01:37:21.659 --> 01:37:23.760
Why is Gynan here?

2240
01:37:23.819 --> 01:37:30.840
Because she needs to deliver some important exposition, which we

2241
01:37:30.840 --> 01:37:31.739
already need.

2242
01:37:32.460 --> 01:37:33.300
Guidance, is it?

2243
01:37:33.359 --> 01:37:35.699
No, it's an effort.

2244
01:37:35.760 --> 01:37:41.640
No, because Guynan is in some sense here because she used to long

2245
01:37:41.640 --> 01:37:43.260
for this place or something.

2246
01:37:43.260 --> 01:37:46.500
She's an exposition echo.

2247
01:37:46.560 --> 01:37:48.180
Yes, exactly right.

2248
01:37:48.239 --> 01:37:49.800
She's an exposition echo.

2249
01:37:49.859 --> 01:37:52.560
But I mean, we don't need this exposition.

2250
01:37:52.619 --> 01:37:53.699
We know what's going on.

2251
01:37:53.760 --> 01:37:58.439
I mean, if it needs this must, that, that little moppet there, that

2252
01:37:58.439 --> 01:38:01.800
little blonde kid, I'm sure that I've seen him.

2253
01:38:01.859 --> 01:38:09.420
Is he the little blonde kid in the holodeck program in in Early

2254
01:38:09.420 --> 01:38:09.960
Voyager?

2255
01:38:10.319 --> 01:38:15.300
Oh my god, it's not the kid from the Lord Burleigh Man. think it

2256
01:38:15.300 --> 01:38:15.659
might be.

2257
01:38:15.720 --> 01:38:18.300
You're not our governess.

2258
01:38:18.420 --> 01:38:24.000
And I shall not be doing my Latin or my Greek. think that is.

2259
01:38:24.060 --> 01:38:29.159
And I think too, one of these kids as well goes on to play Cindy

2260
01:38:29.159 --> 01:38:32.579
in the Brady Bunch movie, which you won't understand because

2261
01:38:32.579 --> 01:38:37.020
you're English and you didn't have the Brady Bunch on at 530 every

2262
01:38:37.020 --> 01:38:37.920
night, every week.

2263
01:38:37.979 --> 01:38:38.399
Excuse me.

2264
01:38:38.460 --> 01:38:39.539
I have seen the Brady Budge.

2265
01:38:39.600 --> 01:38:40.020
Thank you very much.

2266
01:38:40.079 --> 01:38:44.579
I've also seen the X-Files in X-Files in 5 Brave Brunch. 2nd last

2267
01:38:44.579 --> 01:38:44.939
episode.

2268
01:38:45.060 --> 01:38:45.659
That's it.

2269
01:38:45.720 --> 01:38:46.439
Yeah, I've seen that.

2270
01:38:46.500 --> 01:38:47.039
It's great.

2271
01:38:47.100 --> 01:38:48.479
Do you know what, right?

2272
01:38:48.539 --> 01:38:51.600
You know how they say about the odd-numbered Star Trek movies, you

2273
01:38:51.600 --> 01:38:53.039
know, avoid like the play?

2274
01:38:53.100 --> 01:38:53.520
good.

2275
01:38:53.520 --> 01:38:53.880
Yeah.

2276
01:38:53.939 --> 01:38:54.960
Well, I'm telling you now.

2277
01:38:55.020 --> 01:38:56.880
Star Trek one, three, and five.

2278
01:38:56.939 --> 01:38:57.180
Yeah.

2279
01:38:57.239 --> 01:38:58.859
They have some questionable moments in it.

2280
01:38:58.920 --> 01:39:01.859
But there's nothing fucking torturous at this scene, are there?

2281
01:39:01.920 --> 01:39:02.880
No this is dreadful.

2282
01:39:02.939 --> 01:39:04.619
I mean, this is just dreadful.

2283
01:39:04.680 --> 01:39:07.979
Where do they get these horrid looking children from?

2284
01:39:08.220 --> 01:39:10.800
Ugly, ugly children.

2285
01:39:10.920 --> 01:39:13.199
Do they have a book?

2286
01:39:13.260 --> 01:39:14.699
You know, do they look through?

2287
01:39:14.760 --> 01:39:17.760
These ones look suitably quartesque.

2288
01:39:17.819 --> 01:39:18.479
Well, bring him in.

2289
01:39:21.300 --> 01:39:24.119
I don't understand the period setting.

2290
01:39:24.180 --> 01:39:24.899
What is no?

2291
01:39:24.960 --> 01:39:25.619
I don't either.

2292
01:39:25.680 --> 01:39:26.220
What's going on?

2293
01:39:26.279 --> 01:39:30.420
So he now knows that he can exit the nexus at any point in time in

2294
01:39:30.420 --> 01:39:35.279
space and instead of exiting the nexus and going into 10 forward

2295
01:39:35.279 --> 01:39:40.500
and putting Soren under arrest before he does any of this stuff.

2296
01:39:40.560 --> 01:39:45.119
He decides that he has to go back to after when the enterprise has

2297
01:39:45.119 --> 01:39:50.100
crashed into the planet so that he has only a limited time to stop

2298
01:39:50.100 --> 01:39:53.220
him. there just seems to be absolutely no reason for that.

2299
01:39:53.279 --> 01:39:59.340
Guy and on a fairground ride. what is going on Oh, yeah, no, but

2300
01:39:59.340 --> 01:40:01.619
that weird thing where we couldn't quite make out what was

2301
01:40:01.619 --> 01:40:02.100
happening.

2302
01:40:02.159 --> 01:40:06.239
Isn't that him on that merry-go-round?

2303
01:40:06.300 --> 01:40:08.520
That why he's going around and around and around at the beginning

2304
01:40:08.520 --> 01:40:10.319
when he 1st turns up in the Nexus.

2305
01:40:10.380 --> 01:40:12.359
Yeah, see, I'd rather be here.

2306
01:40:12.420 --> 01:40:14.579
I don't know that I'd want. to be shocked.

2307
01:40:14.640 --> 01:40:17.039
I just got to go back to seeing the Enterprise blown to shit.

2308
01:40:17.279 --> 01:40:21.239
Well, it'll come again. you'll get that soon I mean, I never

2309
01:40:21.239 --> 01:40:25.020
thought I'd say this, but you know, I'd rather be back watching a

2310
01:40:25.020 --> 01:40:25.739
Klingon's tits.

2311
01:40:25.800 --> 01:40:29.640
Yeah, yeah. than Picard's lurid fantasy life.

2312
01:40:29.699 --> 01:40:31.920
Awful, dreadful fantasy life.

2313
01:40:31.979 --> 01:40:34.319
See at least Kirk's got a better fantasy, I think.

2314
01:40:34.619 --> 01:40:36.840
Oh, but no, you know what?

2315
01:40:36.899 --> 01:40:38.220
Like Shatter's in these scenes.

2316
01:40:38.279 --> 01:40:42.359
So automatically the quality of this film has just raised a little

2317
01:40:42.359 --> 01:40:42.960
bit, isn't it?

2318
01:40:43.020 --> 01:40:43.560
Yeah.

2319
01:40:43.619 --> 01:40:44.460
Yeah.

2320
01:40:44.520 --> 01:40:49.319
Well, he just has such a easy charm about it. that's right.

2321
01:40:49.380 --> 01:40:51.720
In a way that Stuart doesn't, like, and that character isn't

2322
01:40:51.720 --> 01:40:52.920
designed to be like that.

2323
01:40:52.979 --> 01:40:56.159
He's designed to be, you know, like he's softened a bit from how

2324
01:40:56.159 --> 01:40:58.560
kind of obnoxious he was in series one.

2325
01:40:58.619 --> 01:41:02.460
Um, but he's a little bit more kind of driven.

2326
01:41:02.520 --> 01:41:06.239
I do like how that is contrasted here because it's that wonderful

2327
01:41:06.239 --> 01:41:08.939
bit where he says, you know, you're a Starfleet officer.

2328
01:41:09.000 --> 01:41:12.600
And Kirk goes, you know, don't quote rules and regulations to me.

2329
01:41:12.659 --> 01:41:15.779
I was saving the universe when you were still out in diapers.

2330
01:41:15.840 --> 01:41:16.619
Yeah, yeah.

2331
01:41:16.619 --> 01:41:18.060
That's a really good line too.

2332
01:41:18.239 --> 01:41:23.579
I quickly use this moment to drop the moment where Braga and Moore

2333
01:41:23.579 --> 01:41:26.520
met William Shatner for the one and only time.

2334
01:41:26.579 --> 01:41:28.680
Oh, what did he say?

2335
01:41:29.279 --> 01:41:34.920
He manages to literally take control of the entire meeting. with 3

2336
01:41:34.920 --> 01:41:39.180
words as they walked in and they knew the 2nd they walked in, okay

2337
01:41:39.180 --> 01:41:42.060
whatever is the outcome of this, we're basically making the movie

2338
01:41:42.060 --> 01:41:43.500
that Bill Shatner wants to make.

2339
01:41:43.560 --> 01:41:44.340
Yeah.

2340
01:41:44.340 --> 01:41:46.739
They walked in and he just went.

2341
01:41:46.800 --> 01:41:48.300
They're so young.

2342
01:41:49.199 --> 01:41:50.880
And that's it.

2343
01:41:50.939 --> 01:41:52.920
He was in charge from that point on.

2344
01:41:53.220 --> 01:42:03.119
So, Stuart is 9 or 10 years younger than, um, Other than Shatner.

2345
01:42:03.779 --> 01:42:07.079
I feel like Shatner just has a youthfulness about it.

2346
01:42:07.140 --> 01:42:08.880
Yeah, you could never tell that.

2347
01:42:08.939 --> 01:42:13.439
But look at the big dog, and that is heaven is where you go and

2348
01:42:13.439 --> 01:42:15.000
your dog is alive again.

2349
01:42:15.060 --> 01:42:20.220
You know, like, that's a better fantasy than those fucking ugly

2350
01:42:20.220 --> 01:42:22.560
children in their edges.

2351
01:42:22.619 --> 01:42:23.880
I can buy into that more.

2352
01:42:24.000 --> 01:42:28.079
Yeah, yeah, Butler's still... in the country with a dog.

2353
01:42:28.199 --> 01:42:32.579
With a dog, you know, someone beautiful upstairs. rather than, it

2354
01:42:32.579 --> 01:42:35.819
does expose, you know, that Picard is the inferior character

2355
01:42:35.819 --> 01:42:36.300
here.

2356
01:42:36.359 --> 01:42:38.460
That is his fantasy life in comparison.

2357
01:42:38.520 --> 01:42:41.279
Yeah, but it doesn't ring true to the character at all.

2358
01:42:41.340 --> 01:42:45.840
It's just, I think it's like, is it Americans trying to write an

2359
01:42:45.840 --> 01:42:46.560
English person?

2360
01:42:46.619 --> 01:42:48.060
Like, I just don't understand it.

2361
01:42:48.119 --> 01:42:49.079
It's very bad.

2362
01:42:49.140 --> 01:42:52.739
No, I'm going to ask you something now and I never normally do

2363
01:42:52.739 --> 01:42:55.079
this and I can't believe I'm boiling it down to this.

2364
01:42:55.140 --> 01:42:56.880
But it's a question that's asked a lot.

2365
01:42:57.359 --> 01:42:59.340
Kirk or Picard.

2366
01:42:59.399 --> 01:43:06.000
Yeah, well, you see, I would always have said Picard, but I think

2367
01:43:06.000 --> 01:43:07.079
it's Kirk.

2368
01:43:07.140 --> 01:43:09.479
He's more fun, isn't he?

2369
01:43:09.539 --> 01:43:10.020
Yeah.

2370
01:43:10.020 --> 01:43:10.619
Yeah.

2371
01:43:10.680 --> 01:43:14.640
Like, Picard's a bit more thoughtful, but I think Kirk is just so

2372
01:43:14.640 --> 01:43:15.359
much fun to watch.

2373
01:43:15.420 --> 01:43:16.800
Yeah.

2374
01:43:16.859 --> 01:43:17.939
Yeah.

2375
01:43:18.000 --> 01:43:21.659
No, they're not just eggs, mate, friend. they're Qatarian eggs.

2376
01:43:21.720 --> 01:43:24.659
Of course they are, and they're weird space looking eggs, which is

2377
01:43:24.659 --> 01:43:25.140
pretty great.

2378
01:43:25.380 --> 01:43:30.899
So, you know, um, Sorry, uh, Braga and Moore said about this scene

2379
01:43:30.899 --> 01:43:35.220
where he's cooking breakfast. you know, people would expect us to

2380
01:43:35.220 --> 01:43:37.800
bring the 2 captains together and for it to be this massive

2381
01:43:37.800 --> 01:43:41.579
climactic sequence, you know, on a staff ship, that would be off

2382
01:43:41.579 --> 01:43:42.659
fame in the galaxy.

2383
01:43:43.020 --> 01:43:46.560
No, we decided to push against all of that and give them something

2384
01:43:46.560 --> 01:43:47.699
that they never expected.

2385
01:43:47.760 --> 01:43:51.659
Captain Kirk making scrambled eggs and Picard going to get the

2386
01:43:51.659 --> 01:43:55.739
ingredients and then they both look, look, oh, I don't know if

2387
01:43:55.739 --> 01:43:56.520
they're looking at each other.

2388
01:43:56.579 --> 01:43:57.359
I'm assuming they are.

2389
01:43:57.420 --> 01:43:59.159
They go, what were we thinking?

2390
01:43:59.279 --> 01:44:00.659
Yeah.

2391
01:44:00.659 --> 01:44:03.659
I mean, that's the thing acknowledge that this approach was not

2392
01:44:03.659 --> 01:44:04.619
the right approach.

2393
01:44:04.680 --> 01:44:05.340
Yeah, yeah.

2394
01:44:05.399 --> 01:44:12.239
So they're given $5000000 to go away and shoot the ending of this

2395
01:44:12.239 --> 01:44:17.279
and they, so they're given additional money from the studio to go

2396
01:44:17.279 --> 01:44:18.479
and fix the ending.

2397
01:44:18.539 --> 01:44:22.439
So at the beginning, like the original plan was to have Soren

2398
01:44:22.439 --> 01:44:24.239
shoot Kirk.

2399
01:44:24.479 --> 01:44:29.460
So he shoots him in the back and they did a test screening with an

2400
01:44:29.460 --> 01:44:30.840
audience and they're all there.

2401
01:44:30.899 --> 01:44:32.279
All the creative team are there as well.

2402
01:44:32.340 --> 01:44:35.579
And apparently the 1st half of the movie, people are enjoying it.

2403
01:44:35.640 --> 01:44:37.439
They're laughing at data's terrible jokes.

2404
01:44:37.500 --> 01:44:40.619
They're, you know, crying and whooping as the enterprise is

2405
01:44:40.619 --> 01:44:43.020
destroyed for some bizarre reason.

2406
01:44:43.079 --> 01:44:44.579
And then the ending hits.

2407
01:44:44.640 --> 01:44:48.720
Kirk shot in the back and apparently you could hear a pin drop in

2408
01:44:48.720 --> 01:44:49.079
there.

2409
01:44:49.140 --> 01:44:52.500
And then the movie ended and nobody was satisfied and they

2410
01:44:52.500 --> 01:44:55.140
basically went, it was good until the point where Ko died.

2411
01:44:55.199 --> 01:44:55.680
That was terrible.

2412
01:44:55.739 --> 01:44:59.640
And the woman that was responsible for bringing this all to life

2413
01:44:59.640 --> 01:45:03.779
it was Berman's boss or something like that, from the studio, said

2414
01:45:03.779 --> 01:45:07.020
there's £5000000 changed.

2415
01:45:07.079 --> 01:45:10.260
You got a good picture, but you got a terrible ending to go and

2416
01:45:10.260 --> 01:45:10.920
change the ending.

2417
01:45:10.979 --> 01:45:16.260
And so they they actually, this is a repaired version of the

2418
01:45:16.260 --> 01:45:17.760
sequence in the nexus.

2419
01:45:17.819 --> 01:45:21.659
Like they try and make it more coherent and clearly fail.

2420
01:45:21.720 --> 01:45:24.899
Um, and then the whole idea.

2421
01:45:24.899 --> 01:45:26.039
No, I think they've done all these bits.

2422
01:45:26.100 --> 01:45:28.079
Yeah, but I think that's in the camp.

2423
01:45:28.079 --> 01:45:32.460
They tied it up. reshoot here, but they do re, they give the, the

2424
01:45:32.460 --> 01:45:33.420
whole thing.

2425
01:45:33.479 --> 01:45:34.439
But you know what they did instead?

2426
01:45:34.500 --> 01:45:38.460
Do you remember caretaker and that aconizing sequence at the end

2427
01:45:38.460 --> 01:45:40.859
where they're going up that bloody staircase that's falling

2428
01:45:40.859 --> 01:45:41.159
apart?

2429
01:45:42.119 --> 01:45:44.159
Oh, okay, yeah.

2430
01:45:44.220 --> 01:45:44.579
You remember?

2431
01:45:44.579 --> 01:45:47.880
They're trying to escape out of the camping place, and Chakotay

2432
01:45:47.880 --> 01:45:51.840
and Tom Paris are going up that, and it takes 10 minutes, and the

2433
01:45:51.840 --> 01:45:53.699
staircase starts falling away from the mountain.

2434
01:45:53.760 --> 01:45:55.380
Well, that's this.

2435
01:45:55.439 --> 01:45:56.819
Yeah, yeah.

2436
01:45:56.880 --> 01:46:01.500
And it's, may I say, it's as undramatic and unclimactic as it is

2437
01:46:01.500 --> 01:46:01.739
here?

2438
01:46:01.800 --> 01:46:03.060
Yeah.

2439
01:46:03.119 --> 01:46:08.100
So presumably in theory, he's saving the crew, although no one's

2440
01:46:08.100 --> 01:46:12.659
mentioned that in the film, he's saving the Enterprise crew by

2441
01:46:12.659 --> 01:46:17.460
preventing Soren from shooting the missile, and he's saving the

2442
01:46:17.460 --> 01:46:21.539
people of Meridian 4, who we also don't care about in any way.

2443
01:46:21.539 --> 01:46:26.640
And I have just vacationed on Meridian 4.

2444
01:46:26.819 --> 01:46:29.880
And I have to say, I spoke to the political leaders.

2445
01:46:29.939 --> 01:46:33.899
They are appalled at your lack of care for their safety.

2446
01:46:33.960 --> 01:46:34.920
Yeah.

2447
01:46:34.979 --> 01:46:36.420
Well, tell them they can get fucked.

2448
01:46:39.180 --> 01:46:45.779
So all he does is he gets the box so that he can de-cloak the

2449
01:46:45.779 --> 01:46:49.500
thing and press the button so Picard can go up and do the things.

2450
01:46:49.560 --> 01:46:53.460
So it's actually not much better than having him shot.

2451
01:46:53.520 --> 01:46:55.500
In fact, it might be a bit worse.

2452
01:46:55.560 --> 01:46:57.779
But at least he has agency.

2453
01:46:57.840 --> 01:46:59.159
You know, he gets to leap.

2454
01:46:59.220 --> 01:47:01.739
He gets to do a brave thing and leap from one side of the bridge

2455
01:47:01.739 --> 01:47:02.340
to the other.

2456
01:47:02.399 --> 01:47:03.539
All of that, you know.

2457
01:47:03.600 --> 01:47:05.100
No, no, no.

2458
01:47:05.159 --> 01:47:06.960
That's captain fucking car.

2459
01:47:07.079 --> 01:47:07.680
Yeah, I know.

2460
01:47:07.739 --> 01:47:12.359
It's miserable He should go out saving the entire galaxy. some

2461
01:47:12.359 --> 01:47:13.020
spectacular way.

2462
01:47:13.140 --> 01:47:16.979
Instead, we're down on some miserable looking planet on his own.

2463
01:47:17.039 --> 01:47:19.020
He's not even saving his crew.

2464
01:47:19.079 --> 01:47:21.960
No, he's going up a staircase.

2465
01:47:22.020 --> 01:47:25.380
He just falls down into a canyon and I mean, it's it is

2466
01:47:25.380 --> 01:47:27.479
spectacularly ill judged.

2467
01:47:27.539 --> 01:47:29.579
Yeah, it's bad, isn't it?

2468
01:47:29.640 --> 01:47:35.100
And I think it is because they're not used to riding at the scale

2469
01:47:35.100 --> 01:47:37.260
that a feature film requires.

2470
01:47:37.319 --> 01:47:40.800
No, I think they're doing what they said that they were doing.

2471
01:47:40.859 --> 01:47:43.079
They were trying to push against expectations.

2472
01:47:43.140 --> 01:47:45.779
You're never going to think Captain Kirk's going to go out in this

2473
01:47:45.779 --> 01:47:47.579
way and some quarry would...

2474
01:47:47.640 --> 01:47:49.319
Yeah, and the reason you're not going to think that is because

2475
01:47:49.319 --> 01:47:51.180
it's a fucking terrible idea.

2476
01:47:51.239 --> 01:47:53.399
Like, it's just a bad idea.

2477
01:47:53.460 --> 01:47:54.960
It's a bad approach.

2478
01:47:55.020 --> 01:47:59.159
And if you're going to have, if you've got Duhan and Chekhov.

2479
01:47:59.220 --> 01:48:01.739
I mean, if they're going to be in this movie for a couple of

2480
01:48:01.739 --> 01:48:05.460
scenes, yeah, make that the climax, him saving them at least.

2481
01:48:05.760 --> 01:48:09.779
I also think too, this is the moment at which he decides actually

2482
01:48:09.779 --> 01:48:10.920
no, I'm going to go back.

2483
01:48:10.920 --> 01:48:15.479
And he explains it's because he's taken that jump before and he's

2484
01:48:15.479 --> 01:48:17.340
always been scared when he does it.

2485
01:48:17.399 --> 01:48:17.880
There it is again.

2486
01:48:17.939 --> 01:48:18.779
We get it done twice.

2487
01:48:18.840 --> 01:48:23.880
But because it's so poorly directed, we don't see what that jump

2488
01:48:23.880 --> 01:48:28.319
is like, we don't see him while he's doing the jump, so we don't

2489
01:48:28.319 --> 01:48:32.699
see what he's feeling, which is what it's a film.

2490
01:48:32.760 --> 01:48:35.100
You know, we should be able to see how someone feels.

2491
01:48:35.159 --> 01:48:37.319
Instead, he goes back and explains that.

2492
01:48:37.319 --> 01:48:41.159
And here we're getting that line of dialogue where he explains

2493
01:48:41.159 --> 01:48:41.520
it.

2494
01:48:41.579 --> 01:48:43.020
It's all just so...

2495
01:48:43.020 --> 01:48:46.020
I can actually remember that. watching this movie in the cinema

2496
01:48:46.020 --> 01:48:47.640
and during these sequences.

2497
01:48:47.699 --> 01:48:49.260
I was just so confused.

2498
01:48:49.319 --> 01:48:50.640
I think I was a bit drunk, actually.

2499
01:48:50.699 --> 01:48:52.319
I was so confused though.

2500
01:48:52.380 --> 01:48:53.640
I'm like, you should have tried that.

2501
01:48:53.699 --> 01:48:55.920
Why are we just watching them horse riding?

2502
01:48:55.979 --> 01:48:56.880
I don't get it.

2503
01:48:56.939 --> 01:48:58.199
Yeah, yeah.

2504
01:48:58.260 --> 01:48:59.579
Yeah.

2505
01:48:59.640 --> 01:49:00.060
Then there we go.

2506
01:49:00.119 --> 01:49:01.739
And maybe...

2507
01:49:01.800 --> 01:49:02.340
Nothing here is real.

2508
01:49:02.399 --> 01:49:03.539
Nothing matters.

2509
01:49:03.720 --> 01:49:07.800
As a TNG story.

2510
01:49:07.859 --> 01:49:13.500
Maybe we should be a little less cerebral and a little more impact

2511
01:49:13.500 --> 01:49:13.739
you know?

2512
01:49:13.800 --> 01:49:16.140
Which again is what they go for in the next movie.

2513
01:49:16.199 --> 01:49:17.640
There's not much thought in that movie.

2514
01:49:17.699 --> 01:49:19.439
But boy, it's exciting to watch.

2515
01:49:19.560 --> 01:49:23.640
No, I think there is, I think, the B plot on earth where they're

2516
01:49:23.640 --> 01:49:27.119
trying to ensure that 1st contact happens on schedule is exactly

2517
01:49:27.119 --> 01:49:32.279
what they should be doing and it is about what Star Trek is by

2518
01:49:32.279 --> 01:49:33.539
establishing that importance.

2519
01:49:33.779 --> 01:49:35.579
They gauge the emotion world, don't they?

2520
01:49:35.640 --> 01:49:38.340
Do you remember the bit where it finally happens and the Vulcans

2521
01:49:38.340 --> 01:49:40.500
come out and they meet for the 1st time and it's really

2522
01:49:40.500 --> 01:49:40.859
beautiful.

2523
01:49:40.920 --> 01:49:41.819
Yeah.

2524
01:49:41.819 --> 01:49:42.420
Yeah.

2525
01:49:42.479 --> 01:49:46.979
And that's a huge moment and they say what it leads to. is exactly

2526
01:49:46.979 --> 01:49:48.899
what this should be between Kirk and Picard.

2527
01:49:49.020 --> 01:49:52.079
But the thing that's, well, I've said that there's lots of things

2528
01:49:52.079 --> 01:49:53.520
about this movie that are very confusing.

2529
01:49:53.579 --> 01:49:56.460
But they don't need to pass the baton on.

2530
01:49:56.520 --> 01:50:01.920
No, original series ended in a spectacular failure in season

2531
01:50:01.920 --> 01:50:02.399
three.

2532
01:50:02.460 --> 01:50:08.039
TNG came along in a spectacular success in a vertical series one

2533
01:50:08.039 --> 01:50:09.659
but they built up their own audience.

2534
01:50:09.720 --> 01:50:11.340
They've already passed the battle on.

2535
01:50:11.399 --> 01:50:12.720
They've already proven themselves.

2536
01:50:12.960 --> 01:50:15.300
So what is this all about then?

2537
01:50:15.359 --> 01:50:16.560
is this all about?

2538
01:50:16.619 --> 01:50:17.399
Yeah, I know.

2539
01:50:17.460 --> 01:50:21.420
And the 6th film, like Star Trek 6 ends in a wonderful way, if

2540
01:50:21.420 --> 01:50:25.020
that's the last time we ever saw them, that would be spectacular.

2541
01:50:25.079 --> 01:50:28.380
You know, the 1st day on the right for Australia. morning?

2542
01:50:28.439 --> 01:50:29.579
That's why he didn't come back.

2543
01:50:29.640 --> 01:50:31.439
That's why he didn't come back.

2544
01:50:31.500 --> 01:50:33.000
He said, I had such a great ending in six.

2545
01:50:33.060 --> 01:50:36.119
I don't want to spoil that It's a beautiful ending, and I think

2546
01:50:36.119 --> 01:50:40.140
they do spoil it by doing this by having sort of half the crew and

2547
01:50:40.140 --> 01:50:44.340
kind of its kirk and 22 of the lesser kind of secondary characters

2548
01:50:44.340 --> 01:50:47.579
come through, having Kirk die in this sort of futile way.

2549
01:50:47.640 --> 01:50:50.100
Like, I just think it spoiled.

2550
01:50:50.939 --> 01:50:53.579
For 5 minutes now, we have been watching them horse riding and

2551
01:50:53.579 --> 01:50:54.960
fucking about in fields.

2552
01:50:55.020 --> 01:50:57.479
Like the pacing of this movie is very odd.

2553
01:50:57.539 --> 01:50:59.460
This is the climax, right?

2554
01:50:59.520 --> 01:51:03.060
This is the climax of the movie and we take some time off to

2555
01:51:03.060 --> 01:51:06.659
celebrate Christmas with Picard's ugly children and then to ride

2556
01:51:06.659 --> 01:51:10.439
around with horse. just miserable.

2557
01:51:11.159 --> 01:51:13.079
Oh, dear.

2558
01:51:13.140 --> 01:51:16.859
Maybe this is the point where Picard finally jumps the shark.

2559
01:51:18.060 --> 01:51:21.899
If that's his fantasy life, he's irredeemable, you know?

2560
01:51:21.960 --> 01:51:25.859
Yeah, but the 2nd film gets it exactly right. doesn't it?

2561
01:51:25.920 --> 01:51:30.840
So it still has the big kind of thing, like it's got a character

2562
01:51:30.840 --> 01:51:35.220
arc for Picard, which is not groundbreaking, but it's coherent.

2563
01:51:35.279 --> 01:51:39.960
It's got the B plot about what the what the federation is and why

2564
01:51:39.960 --> 01:51:41.039
it's important.

2565
01:51:41.100 --> 01:51:44.520
And that's a peculiarly next generation thing, isn't it?

2566
01:51:44.579 --> 01:51:46.979
Because we didn't have that backstory in original track.

2567
01:51:47.460 --> 01:51:51.960
His big active moment in this is probably supposed to be the bit

2568
01:51:51.960 --> 01:51:53.819
where he cries over the photo album, isn't it?

2569
01:51:53.880 --> 01:51:58.079
His big active moment in 1st contact is the line must be drawn

2570
01:51:58.079 --> 01:51:58.439
here.

2571
01:51:58.500 --> 01:52:00.600
There's far and no further.

2572
01:52:00.659 --> 01:52:01.380
No, don't get me wrong.

2573
01:52:01.439 --> 01:52:04.680
I think it's just as badly acted, but it's far more memorable.

2574
01:52:04.739 --> 01:52:06.180
And it's fun.

2575
01:52:06.239 --> 01:52:07.800
Like, it's a fun line.

2576
01:52:07.859 --> 01:52:09.239
It's not like that miserable.

2577
01:52:09.300 --> 01:52:11.880
When they took the piss out of it, DS 9. with cork.

2578
01:52:11.939 --> 01:52:14.159
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2579
01:52:14.579 --> 01:52:15.840
Yeah, he gets that set.

2580
01:52:15.840 --> 01:52:19.140
I refuse to bring civilisation end.

2581
01:52:19.260 --> 01:52:20.819
The line must be drawn here.

2582
01:52:22.800 --> 01:52:26.760
Oh, why are we watching DS9 instead of this bullshit?

2583
01:52:27.359 --> 01:52:29.880
Yeah, it's hard to say, isn't it?

2584
01:52:30.479 --> 01:52:34.979
Okay, so Kirk now is going to be a hero and take on Soren, I

2585
01:52:34.979 --> 01:52:35.220
think.

2586
01:52:35.699 --> 01:52:37.260
Yeah.

2587
01:52:37.319 --> 01:52:38.520
No.

2588
01:52:38.579 --> 01:52:44.039
No, he dies getting a box, which gets dropped by accident.

2589
01:52:45.960 --> 01:52:50.279
So, you know, in the in the beginning sequence where he goes

2590
01:52:50.279 --> 01:52:51.960
missing from the enterprise.

2591
01:52:52.020 --> 01:52:53.159
Yeah.

2592
01:52:53.220 --> 01:52:55.800
Did he just get sort of sucked into the nexus?

2593
01:52:55.920 --> 01:52:56.340
Yeah.

2594
01:52:56.699 --> 01:52:58.199
Oh.

2595
01:52:58.199 --> 01:53:02.699
And because that's that's where those guys were pulled out of.

2596
01:53:02.760 --> 01:53:06.659
They were rescuing them from the Nexus, but they were going to end

2597
01:53:06.659 --> 01:53:11.340
up in the Nexus, so that all of those refugees, all of those

2598
01:53:11.340 --> 01:53:15.600
refugees whom they rescue were actually all on their way to heaven

2599
01:53:15.600 --> 01:53:18.359
and then they got killed and sort of pulled out of there and

2600
01:53:18.359 --> 01:53:18.600
stuff.

2601
01:53:19.020 --> 01:53:22.979
Oh, that's quite a nice stump there with not Malcolm McDowell

2602
01:53:22.979 --> 01:53:24.659
hanging off the mountain off the thing.

2603
01:53:24.720 --> 01:53:24.960
Yeah.

2604
01:53:25.020 --> 01:53:28.920
Yeah, someone with Malcolm approximately Malcolm McDowell's hair.

2605
01:53:28.979 --> 01:53:32.819
I don't know why all the stuff around this one like staircase.

2606
01:53:32.880 --> 01:53:33.960
It just feels so cheap.

2607
01:53:34.020 --> 01:53:36.420
I don't know. and there's his remote.

2608
01:53:36.479 --> 01:53:38.640
So he's cloaked it.

2609
01:53:38.880 --> 01:53:40.920
Is he cloaked it?

2610
01:53:40.979 --> 01:53:41.640
So what happens?

2611
01:53:41.699 --> 01:53:45.659
That means Picard can't stop it because he can't see what buttons

2612
01:53:45.659 --> 01:53:47.579
to press because it's invisible.

2613
01:53:47.640 --> 01:53:49.859
Now we've dropped the box by accident.

2614
01:53:50.220 --> 01:53:52.140
We're following...

2615
01:53:52.140 --> 01:53:56.340
Instead of having Picard and Kirk in a prolonged and rather dull

2616
01:53:56.340 --> 01:53:58.439
and uninvolving action sequence.

2617
01:53:58.500 --> 01:54:01.199
I would have been far more excited had the pair of them, you know

2618
01:54:01.199 --> 01:54:04.319
had this been about an evil supercomputer, and the pair of them

2619
01:54:04.319 --> 01:54:07.619
had to be witty and bring down the computer, because both Picard

2620
01:54:07.619 --> 01:54:09.960
and Kirk would have different ways of doing that, and it'd be

2621
01:54:09.960 --> 01:54:11.520
really into that driftful old cliche.

2622
01:54:11.640 --> 01:54:13.079
It'll be really...

2623
01:54:13.619 --> 01:54:17.100
Just nearly anything would have been better than this.

2624
01:54:17.159 --> 01:54:19.319
Just anything. anything.

2625
01:54:19.680 --> 01:54:22.560
And I can, like, what's happening here?

2626
01:54:22.619 --> 01:54:26.279
So this is all the new footage now, isn't it, of a clerk hanging

2627
01:54:26.279 --> 01:54:26.819
off the bridge?

2628
01:54:26.880 --> 01:54:28.680
Yeah, and all of that.

2629
01:54:28.739 --> 01:54:31.800
But it isn't much of an improvement, I think.

2630
01:54:31.859 --> 01:54:35.760
No, I mean, what is it Indiana Jones where he's on the rope bridge

2631
01:54:35.760 --> 01:54:38.520
and it falls down the canyon and he's hanging.

2632
01:54:38.579 --> 01:54:39.840
I mean, that's way more exciting than this.

2633
01:54:39.899 --> 01:54:41.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah. isn't it?

2634
01:54:41.939 --> 01:54:45.239
That's really properly suspenseful in a sort of literal sense.

2635
01:54:45.300 --> 01:54:49.859
Like it is possible to direct, just Carson's not up to it.

2636
01:54:49.920 --> 01:54:53.819
It's... so tacky.

2637
01:54:53.880 --> 01:54:55.619
It looks a bit like model work.

2638
01:54:57.720 --> 01:54:59.939
Yeah, it's not good, is it?

2639
01:55:00.060 --> 01:55:03.420
Like, it's not well directed at all, this action sequence.

2640
01:55:03.479 --> 01:55:05.939
Like, oh, there are those back.

2641
01:55:05.939 --> 01:55:09.300
You know, I'm starting to come to the conclusion that maybe Carson

2642
01:55:09.300 --> 01:55:12.239
is about 70% on the problem here.

2643
01:55:12.300 --> 01:55:13.800
I mean, the script is problematic.

2644
01:55:13.859 --> 01:55:14.460
Yeah.

2645
01:55:14.640 --> 01:55:20.699
No, but it is the incomplete transition from TV to film.

2646
01:55:20.760 --> 01:55:21.899
That's probably the problem.

2647
01:55:22.020 --> 01:55:26.819
And what's strange is that Frakes, you know, learnt his trade in

2648
01:55:26.819 --> 01:55:27.539
TV?

2649
01:55:27.659 --> 01:55:31.619
And yet he has the balls in 1st contact to say, no, bigger

2650
01:55:31.619 --> 01:55:31.979
bigger.

2651
01:55:32.039 --> 01:55:33.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2652
01:55:33.119 --> 01:55:37.500
We will have sequences of people walking, walking over the saucer

2653
01:55:37.500 --> 01:55:40.260
section in spacesuits, you know, quite in the ball.

2654
01:55:40.319 --> 01:55:43.560
But it's why he's directing Star Trek more than 20 years later.

2655
01:55:43.619 --> 01:55:46.380
You know, he's because he's good.

2656
01:55:46.439 --> 01:55:48.060
Don't even, right?

2657
01:55:48.119 --> 01:55:51.600
He's the one that has all those drones zooming around the set.

2658
01:55:51.659 --> 01:55:53.159
Yeah, that's what you want.

2659
01:55:53.220 --> 01:55:55.500
See, he's...

2660
01:55:55.500 --> 01:55:56.159
I'm like you.

2661
01:55:56.220 --> 01:55:59.340
He's learned what TV and these...

2662
01:55:59.340 --> 01:56:00.180
It's to look like.

2663
01:56:05.220 --> 01:56:10.619
Oh, God, will the remote control fall or won't it?

2664
01:56:11.279 --> 01:56:14.399
Even that chain snapping looked really cheap.

2665
01:56:14.460 --> 01:56:15.720
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2666
01:56:15.779 --> 01:56:20.880
But it's also like, it's also poor old fat build, you know, like

2667
01:56:21.000 --> 01:56:21.899
to another.

2668
01:56:21.899 --> 01:56:23.520
Oh, no.

2669
01:56:23.579 --> 01:56:25.739
Oh, not very dignified.

2670
01:56:27.779 --> 01:56:31.260
Do you know when he heard that Captain Kirk was going to be killed

2671
01:56:31.260 --> 01:56:31.920
in this movie?

2672
01:56:31.979 --> 01:56:34.800
he fully endorsed it I think he'd had enough at this point.

2673
01:56:34.859 --> 01:56:38.159
I don't think even he thought it would be this dull.

2674
01:56:38.220 --> 01:56:43.199
No, because he had every right to go... so that's embarrassing

2675
01:56:43.199 --> 01:56:47.460
that shot where the bridge is skiing down the side of the thing

2676
01:56:47.460 --> 01:56:48.779
and then turning over.

2677
01:56:48.840 --> 01:56:51.119
That's a shitty, shitty shot.

2678
01:56:51.180 --> 01:56:53.640
He's still clinging on though, isn't he?

2679
01:56:53.699 --> 01:56:57.180
Picard goes over to that dreadful DS9 prop.

2680
01:56:57.239 --> 01:56:59.579
It's like, right, we're going to get the line into space.

2681
01:56:59.640 --> 01:57:00.420
Yeah.

2682
01:57:00.479 --> 01:57:02.159
He's gonna switch it.

2683
01:57:02.220 --> 01:57:04.439
Oh no, he's puts the locking clamps on.

2684
01:57:04.500 --> 01:57:05.100
That's right.

2685
01:57:05.159 --> 01:57:06.960
So it just explodes in place.

2686
01:57:07.079 --> 01:57:10.680
Do you know, I don't even think even insurrection, which I

2687
01:57:10.680 --> 01:57:12.899
insurrection again does feel like a two-part.

2688
01:57:12.960 --> 01:57:13.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2689
01:57:13.859 --> 01:57:15.779
Yeah, TNG, just with a huge budget.

2690
01:57:15.840 --> 01:57:20.399
I don't think any part of insurrection feels as cheap as this or

2691
01:57:20.399 --> 01:57:22.800
as terribly executed as this.

2692
01:57:22.979 --> 01:57:29.220
Yeah, I think it has more of a coherent theme to it as well.

2693
01:57:29.340 --> 01:57:33.300
It's got a few ideas coalescing around old age and stuff that I

2694
01:57:33.300 --> 01:57:34.500
think sort of work.

2695
01:57:35.100 --> 01:57:37.680
It is just astonishing though, isn't it?

2696
01:57:37.739 --> 01:57:39.359
You think those 6 movies came before this?

2697
01:57:39.420 --> 01:57:43.020
With real ambition, real scales.

2698
01:57:43.079 --> 01:57:43.619
Yeah, yeah.

2699
01:57:43.680 --> 01:57:44.579
Yeah.

2700
01:57:44.640 --> 01:57:49.560
But, I mean, just, yeah, Star Trek just is in a movie series, and

2701
01:57:49.560 --> 01:57:52.859
I always sort of greet the news that they're going to try and

2702
01:57:52.859 --> 01:57:55.859
revive the movie series or do more Star Trek movies and stuff.

2703
01:57:55.920 --> 01:57:58.079
I just sort of think, no, it's television.

2704
01:57:58.079 --> 01:58:01.020
And it's television for the same reason the Doctor Who is

2705
01:58:01.020 --> 01:58:01.500
television.

2706
01:58:01.560 --> 01:58:05.100
It's because you can do something different every week And so this

2707
01:58:05.100 --> 01:58:06.479
is never like that.

2708
01:58:06.539 --> 01:58:09.659
This is never like having Star Trek the Next Generation on air.

2709
01:58:10.260 --> 01:58:12.960
Had Nemoy directed this.

2710
01:58:13.020 --> 01:58:15.000
I think it would be a very different movie.

2711
01:58:15.119 --> 01:58:17.159
Yeah, yeah.

2712
01:58:17.220 --> 01:58:18.720
Well, he's good.

2713
01:58:18.779 --> 01:58:22.920
Yeah, he direct... he would have said, what is this shitty ending

2714
01:58:22.920 --> 01:58:23.460
on the bridge?

2715
01:58:23.520 --> 01:58:25.319
Right, let's rewrite that.

2716
01:58:25.380 --> 01:58:26.279
Yep.

2717
01:58:26.340 --> 01:58:27.000
Yeah.

2718
01:58:28.199 --> 01:58:32.039
Even if they'd had Captain Kirk, I don't know, deactivating a

2719
01:58:32.039 --> 01:58:34.619
ticking bomb or something like that.

2720
01:58:34.680 --> 01:58:36.600
He confronts Soren.

2721
01:58:36.659 --> 01:58:38.220
He confronts Soren.

2722
01:58:38.279 --> 01:58:41.640
They have a philosophical difference about what's important.

2723
01:58:41.699 --> 01:58:42.359
What matters?

2724
01:58:42.420 --> 01:58:46.380
Soren has decided that human mortality means that nothing matters

2725
01:58:46.380 --> 01:58:50.460
and it's okay to kill the people of Ridian 4 because they're going

2726
01:58:50.460 --> 01:58:51.359
to die anyway.

2727
01:58:51.420 --> 01:58:54.239
And so it makes life pointless, right?

2728
01:58:54.300 --> 01:58:58.079
Kirk is, you know, retired.

2729
01:58:58.140 --> 01:59:00.180
He's struggling to find life meaningful.

2730
01:59:00.239 --> 01:59:06.359
You know, why doesn't he confront the villain and like get killed

2731
01:59:06.359 --> 01:59:07.380
in that confrontation?

2732
01:59:07.439 --> 01:59:11.579
Why is he fucking trying to get the TV remote from under the couch

2733
01:59:11.579 --> 01:59:14.159
and then he falls off to his death?

2734
01:59:14.220 --> 01:59:15.899
Like, it's terrible.

2735
01:59:16.199 --> 01:59:20.819
And the way this is shot through the girl, it's so undramatic

2736
01:59:20.880 --> 01:59:21.600
awkward.

2737
01:59:21.840 --> 01:59:25.680
It's just awkward Oh, and apparently they're a big fight.

2738
01:59:25.739 --> 01:59:28.439
You know, he says, my god, or something like that at the end.

2739
01:59:28.500 --> 01:59:30.119
No, it's 0 my.

2740
01:59:30.180 --> 01:59:33.420
Oh my. insisted.

2741
01:59:33.479 --> 01:59:36.960
He goes, and that nobody else wanted it, and he said, I'm going to

2742
01:59:36.960 --> 01:59:38.279
say, oh, my, whether you want it or not.

2743
01:59:38.340 --> 01:59:40.079
And they were like, why?

2744
01:59:40.140 --> 01:59:41.579
And he said, because he's seeing something.

2745
01:59:41.699 --> 01:59:42.720
Yeah.

2746
01:59:42.779 --> 01:59:43.859
And that's it.

2747
01:59:43.920 --> 01:59:45.300
It was ambiguous about what it was.

2748
01:59:45.359 --> 01:59:47.279
And he would not budge.

2749
01:59:47.340 --> 01:59:52.500
But like there's something about death in this film that never

2750
01:59:52.500 --> 01:59:56.579
pays off and never really works properly, but he's kind of at

2751
01:59:56.579 --> 01:59:59.279
least recognised that that's a thing that's happening.

2752
01:59:59.340 --> 02:00:04.020
And if he's a voyager, if he's someone who whose whole life has

2753
02:00:04.020 --> 02:00:07.920
been travelling from place to place and stuff that this is an

2754
02:00:07.920 --> 02:00:09.420
entirely new journey.

2755
02:00:09.479 --> 02:00:11.340
I think his instinct's right.

2756
02:00:11.340 --> 02:00:16.260
He's off to seek out new life and new civilisation.

2757
02:00:16.319 --> 02:00:21.720
But, but, you know, that's a much more interesting take than not

2758
02:00:21.720 --> 02:00:22.199
doing it.

2759
02:00:22.260 --> 02:00:23.880
Jesus Christ.

2760
02:00:23.939 --> 02:00:26.640
Is this supposed to be a take on that sequence in Star Wars, you

2761
02:00:26.640 --> 02:00:28.319
know, where he sets the pyre alive.

2762
02:00:28.380 --> 02:00:31.680
You've got a card standing there with a bunch of rocks.

2763
02:00:31.739 --> 02:00:34.800
I mean, he shoved a bunch of rocks on top of William Shatner.

2764
02:00:34.859 --> 02:00:37.260
Well, how is he going to bury him in that landscape?

2765
02:00:37.319 --> 02:00:40.979
I just don't think that pile of rocks should have to cover

2766
02:00:40.979 --> 02:00:41.880
Shatner.

2767
02:00:42.960 --> 02:00:45.180
Or his ego anyway.

2768
02:00:48.300 --> 02:00:50.760
Oh, dear, oh, dear, oh dear.

2769
02:00:53.819 --> 02:00:56.579
Oh, now we'll get another cat rooms alive, I think.

2770
02:00:56.640 --> 02:01:01.800
If you've got, if you've got like a, an ill-defined threat, the

2771
02:01:01.800 --> 02:01:07.979
next test, and you've got 0 stakes, the people of Meridian 4, and

2772
02:01:07.979 --> 02:01:10.739
then you've got no kind of character conclusions.

2773
02:01:10.859 --> 02:01:11.760
No.

2774
02:01:11.819 --> 02:01:13.680
What was the point of any of this?

2775
02:01:13.739 --> 02:01:15.180
Yeah, that's right.

2776
02:01:15.239 --> 02:01:18.060
I mean, you know, like, and it was spectacle and it was a bit of

2777
02:01:18.060 --> 02:01:20.699
extra time to spend with the people that we had fun with for 7

2778
02:01:20.699 --> 02:01:24.539
years and stuff, but it doesn't really amount to anything.

2779
02:01:24.600 --> 02:01:27.960
Um, whereas I think...

2780
02:01:28.020 --> 02:01:30.180
I feel like this should just be it should have just been a lot

2781
02:01:30.180 --> 02:01:31.380
more fun than it is.

2782
02:01:31.439 --> 02:01:34.619
Now this makes no fucking sense either, right?

2783
02:01:34.680 --> 02:01:37.800
Here is data and he's talking about how he's overcome his

2784
02:01:37.800 --> 02:01:38.399
emotions.

2785
02:01:38.460 --> 02:01:40.439
He's going through the ship.

2786
02:01:40.500 --> 02:01:44.579
He either knows or doesn't know that his cat has been found or

2787
02:01:44.579 --> 02:01:44.819
not.

2788
02:01:46.020 --> 02:01:51.239
Why does it come as a surprise to him that the cat is there?

2789
02:01:51.479 --> 02:01:54.659
And only when the cat is there, does it even occur to him that

2790
02:01:54.659 --> 02:01:55.739
that's a problem?

2791
02:01:55.800 --> 02:01:57.479
Why isn't he worried about his cat?

2792
02:01:57.539 --> 02:01:59.819
Like, this makes no sense.

2793
02:01:59.880 --> 02:02:02.939
He like pulls the thing out and goes, oh, that's right.

2794
02:02:03.000 --> 02:02:06.840
I had a cat and then he starts to feel upset about it.

2795
02:02:06.899 --> 02:02:08.100
It makes no sense.

2796
02:02:08.939 --> 02:02:14.520
And by all accounts, yeah, Spoiler hated this scene, he was like

2797
02:02:14.520 --> 02:02:15.539
anything but the cat.

2798
02:02:15.600 --> 02:02:17.159
Let me find Geordie.

2799
02:02:17.220 --> 02:02:19.920
Let me find any ensign under there.

2800
02:02:19.979 --> 02:02:21.300
But not the cat.

2801
02:02:21.359 --> 02:02:23.880
And they were like, no, people love the cat.

2802
02:02:23.939 --> 02:02:24.779
It's going to be the cat.

2803
02:02:25.140 --> 02:02:28.560
I think it's adorable on the cat's cool spot.

2804
02:02:28.619 --> 02:02:31.920
I don't think that the genius of that name is properly

2805
02:02:31.920 --> 02:02:32.699
appreciated.

2806
02:02:32.760 --> 02:02:33.960
It's a dog's name.

2807
02:02:34.020 --> 02:02:36.600
Oh, I think it looks standing like the neighbours doesn't have

2808
02:02:36.600 --> 02:02:37.800
a...

2809
02:02:37.800 --> 02:02:40.319
Yeah, I've seen that.

2810
02:02:40.439 --> 02:02:41.640
He spends half his life in my house.

2811
02:02:41.760 --> 02:02:42.779
I tell you.

2812
02:02:45.840 --> 02:02:47.279
I would just be sneezing.

2813
02:02:47.340 --> 02:02:51.539
But maybe that's maybe that is a very good indication of the sort

2814
02:02:51.539 --> 02:02:53.579
of character disconnect that they don't.

2815
02:02:53.640 --> 02:02:55.199
Yeah, but they don't know, like, that makes no sense.

2816
02:02:55.260 --> 02:02:56.880
Does that make any sense at all?

2817
02:02:56.939 --> 02:02:59.699
Like, because if I had a cat?

2818
02:02:59.760 --> 02:03:01.140
And there was a wreckage at my house.

2819
02:03:01.199 --> 02:03:03.479
You'd be looking for the fucking cat.

2820
02:03:03.539 --> 02:03:07.020
He's talking quite calmly as if everything's fine and all my

2821
02:03:07.020 --> 02:03:08.279
emotions are under control.

2822
02:03:08.340 --> 02:03:12.539
And then he sort of remembers that he has a cat because he sees it

2823
02:03:12.539 --> 02:03:14.220
and it's still alive and then he's upset.

2824
02:03:14.279 --> 02:03:15.060
It just makes no sense.

2825
02:03:15.119 --> 02:03:16.800
Poor old Professor Gael.

2826
02:03:16.859 --> 02:03:18.000
See what he just picks up there.

2827
02:03:18.060 --> 02:03:21.479
He picked up the thing that Professor Galen gave him at the

2828
02:03:21.479 --> 02:03:24.720
beginning of Gambit part one, was it?

2829
02:03:24.779 --> 02:03:27.659
that thing. and then he throws it away.

2830
02:03:27.720 --> 02:03:31.739
So, you know, that was a priceless archeological piece, but fuck

2831
02:03:31.739 --> 02:03:32.100
it.

2832
02:03:32.159 --> 02:03:37.079
At least he's got his space photo album full of pictures.

2833
02:03:37.140 --> 02:03:38.520
This was the only thing I felt anything about.

2834
02:03:38.579 --> 02:03:41.760
Was these destroyed, gutted TNG sets?

2835
02:03:41.819 --> 02:03:43.020
Yeah, sets, yeah.

2836
02:03:43.079 --> 02:03:43.680
Yeah.

2837
02:03:43.739 --> 02:03:44.880
And what about his?

2838
02:03:44.939 --> 02:03:47.220
It kind of feels like the journey's over now, doesn't it?

2839
02:03:47.279 --> 02:03:48.000
Yeah, yeah.

2840
02:03:48.060 --> 02:03:50.340
Well, that's hot, the fish.

2841
02:03:50.460 --> 02:03:51.659
What was the fish called?

2842
02:03:51.720 --> 02:03:52.260
Livingstone.

2843
02:03:52.380 --> 02:03:53.520
They're all counting.

2844
02:03:53.579 --> 02:03:54.000
They all dead.

2845
02:03:54.060 --> 02:03:55.739
Yeah, fish is gone.

2846
02:03:55.800 --> 02:03:59.220
No, it was a lionfish, remember, in the in the little ball in the

2847
02:03:59.220 --> 02:03:59.699
ready room.

2848
02:03:59.819 --> 02:04:02.220
Can I not say like, has anyone died?

2849
02:04:02.279 --> 02:04:05.579
Yeah, well, yeah, some people had to be here.

2850
02:04:05.640 --> 02:04:06.659
The entire ship crash.

2851
02:04:06.720 --> 02:04:07.920
Is an Earth O'Gower okay?

2852
02:04:07.979 --> 02:04:09.899
Yeah, Mr. Mott.

2853
02:04:11.460 --> 02:04:13.079
That's right.

2854
02:04:13.500 --> 02:04:15.060
All right.

2855
02:04:15.119 --> 02:04:16.439
Two to beam up, come on.

2856
02:04:16.439 --> 02:04:19.319
I see this bridge in the darkness like this.

2857
02:04:19.380 --> 02:04:21.479
This is the most atmospheric...

2858
02:04:21.479 --> 02:04:22.140
It's overlooked.

2859
02:04:22.199 --> 02:04:24.359
Well, apart from earlier on in this film, I guess.

2860
02:04:25.020 --> 02:04:28.319
No, I think I think you can actually feel something about that

2861
02:04:28.319 --> 02:04:28.859
scene.

2862
02:04:28.920 --> 02:04:31.680
I know it's pretty long, but you actually can feel something about

2863
02:04:31.680 --> 02:04:31.920
that.

2864
02:04:31.979 --> 02:04:33.359
And the 2 of them walking around.

2865
02:04:33.960 --> 02:04:36.960
Yeah, I don't know.

2866
02:04:37.020 --> 02:04:37.979
I probably felt a bit more.

2867
02:04:38.039 --> 02:04:40.199
Do you remember when the defiant was blown up in changing face of

2868
02:04:40.199 --> 02:04:40.560
evil?

2869
02:04:40.619 --> 02:04:42.600
Yeah, but then they bring it back.

2870
02:04:42.659 --> 02:04:45.659
I think I probably felt, oh, yeah, I felt a bit more then, to be

2871
02:04:45.659 --> 02:04:45.840
honest.

2872
02:04:46.199 --> 02:04:49.260
Okay, so all off beaming away now.

2873
02:04:49.319 --> 02:04:49.859
Is that the end?

2874
02:04:49.979 --> 02:04:50.880
It is.

2875
02:04:50.880 --> 02:04:51.539
To the end.

2876
02:04:51.600 --> 02:04:52.079
Yep.

2877
02:04:52.140 --> 02:04:52.920
Merry Christmas.

2878
02:04:53.460 --> 02:04:57.300
Do you know, I think Dr. Beverly Crusher appeared in about 2.5

2879
02:04:57.300 --> 02:04:58.199
minutes in that movie?

2880
02:04:58.260 --> 02:04:59.039
Yeah, yeah.

2881
02:04:59.100 --> 02:05:00.659
Even Marina got more to do.

2882
02:05:00.899 --> 02:05:08.100
So you and I were quite on board for about 20 minutes of that.

2883
02:05:08.159 --> 02:05:08.880
Yeah.

2884
02:05:08.880 --> 02:05:09.479
Yeah.

2885
02:05:09.539 --> 02:05:11.579
And then we were very confused about the rest.

2886
02:05:11.640 --> 02:05:13.500
Oh, Miguel Barrett.

2887
02:05:13.560 --> 02:05:14.340
Oh, the computer voice.

2888
02:05:14.460 --> 02:05:16.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2889
02:05:16.439 --> 02:05:18.420
Oh no, here we go.

2890
02:05:18.479 --> 02:05:23.159
Picard's kids, Matthew Collins, Olivia Hack, you hideous examples

2891
02:05:23.159 --> 02:05:23.760
of humanity.

2892
02:05:24.420 --> 02:05:28.500
I don't know which one of them is Cindy in the film, but one of

2893
02:05:28.500 --> 02:05:28.920
them is.

2894
02:05:28.979 --> 02:05:31.380
I think I'm told. don't know.

2895
02:05:31.439 --> 02:05:34.439
All I know is my nightmares will be plagued by those Victorian

2896
02:05:34.439 --> 02:05:34.800
children.

2897
02:05:34.859 --> 02:05:37.260
Yeah, yeah, just terrible.

2898
02:05:37.319 --> 02:05:38.880
Absolutely terrible.

2899
02:05:38.939 --> 02:05:42.000
Oh, visual effects supervisor Ronald B more.

2900
02:05:42.060 --> 02:05:42.720
Yeah.

2901
02:05:42.779 --> 02:05:43.680
Yeah.

2902
02:05:43.739 --> 02:05:47.279
That's a bit unusual. not his immediate older brother, but his

2903
02:05:47.279 --> 02:05:50.039
other older brother, just slightly older than him.

2904
02:05:50.460 --> 02:05:54.600
So, well, can I ask you to sort of summarise your thoughts of that

2905
02:05:54.600 --> 02:05:54.779
movie?

2906
02:05:54.899 --> 02:05:56.279
This is the 1st movie we've done.

2907
02:05:56.340 --> 02:05:58.380
I feel like we've shut all over it from a great height.

2908
02:05:58.680 --> 02:06:03.239
I think that they should have given us some time to miss the next

2909
02:06:03.239 --> 02:06:05.340
generation crew before bringing them back.

2910
02:06:05.399 --> 02:06:07.500
I know why they didn't.

2911
02:06:07.560 --> 02:06:11.220
You know, like, I think that they wanted to kind of launch this

2912
02:06:11.220 --> 02:06:13.739
into a new series of movies and wanted to make sure that everyone

2913
02:06:13.739 --> 02:06:17.279
was still under contract for the 1st one at least.

2914
02:06:17.399 --> 02:06:23.640
And I think it's unambitious and all of the, like all of the

2915
02:06:23.640 --> 02:06:28.319
faults that we found, the inclusion of the crew from TOS was

2916
02:06:28.319 --> 02:06:33.300
unnecessary and unbalanced the film, the climax makes no sense.

2917
02:06:33.359 --> 02:06:34.319
There's no stakes.

2918
02:06:34.380 --> 02:06:36.539
It's not clearly about anything.

2919
02:06:36.600 --> 02:06:39.239
Um, and it's a bit of a problem.

2920
02:06:39.359 --> 02:06:39.899
I think.

2921
02:06:39.960 --> 02:06:44.640
And the B plot with data is ill advised and. makes him behave in a

2922
02:06:44.640 --> 02:06:47.460
way that's obnoxious and that undermines his character.

2923
02:06:47.520 --> 02:06:49.439
It's not what what you want to see Brent doing.

2924
02:06:49.800 --> 02:06:56.640
It's not as Zillas vised as the B plot with data in nemesis, you

2925
02:06:56.640 --> 02:07:00.239
know, with that 2nd data that comes along and takes its place at

2926
02:07:00.239 --> 02:07:00.539
the end.

2927
02:07:00.600 --> 02:07:02.640
But, um, do you remember as well?

2928
02:07:02.699 --> 02:07:06.060
Like, when we did the commentary for all good things, and, you

2929
02:07:06.060 --> 02:07:09.659
know, you had some interesting criticism about that because a lot

2930
02:07:09.659 --> 02:07:10.500
of people will find out.

2931
02:07:10.560 --> 02:07:15.779
But we were both supremely moved by that final scene where they're

2932
02:07:15.779 --> 02:07:16.560
playing poker.

2933
02:07:16.619 --> 02:07:17.579
Picard comes in.

2934
02:07:17.760 --> 02:07:24.119
And like in that one scene, I felt more than anything at all in

2935
02:07:24.119 --> 02:07:25.500
this movie, anything.

2936
02:07:25.619 --> 02:07:29.579
And, and, and, you know, that just shows you can do it with 6

2937
02:07:29.579 --> 02:07:32.520
actors, a camera, and a tiny set, you know?

2938
02:07:32.640 --> 02:07:33.779
Yeah.

2939
02:07:33.779 --> 02:07:34.920
It's baffling.

2940
02:07:34.979 --> 02:07:38.760
I think it's a baffling transition from TV.

2941
02:07:38.819 --> 02:07:40.260
No, I don't, it's not a transition.

2942
02:07:40.319 --> 02:07:45.479
I think it is, this feels like a made for TV, Next Generation

2943
02:07:45.479 --> 02:07:50.159
movie, and I think the 1st movie is 1st contact.

2944
02:07:50.220 --> 02:07:51.420
Yeah.

2945
02:07:51.479 --> 02:07:51.960
Yeah.

2946
02:07:52.020 --> 02:07:56.640
But I mean, you know, insurrection is also basically, you know

2947
02:07:56.640 --> 02:08:00.000
it's a bit like birthright, parts one and 2 or something. like a

2948
02:08:00.000 --> 02:08:02.579
late mid-season 2 parter as well.

2949
02:08:02.640 --> 02:08:07.739
And it does all sorts of, uh, sort of ill advised things too.

2950
02:08:07.800 --> 02:08:11.699
But I think it's better and it's more coherent and it's a little

2951
02:08:11.699 --> 02:08:12.720
bit more forgivable.

2952
02:08:12.720 --> 02:08:16.319
And then just nemesis is awful, isn't it?

2953
02:08:16.380 --> 02:08:18.720
It's just sort of super upsettingly bad.

2954
02:08:18.779 --> 02:08:20.100
Yeah.

2955
02:08:20.220 --> 02:08:27.300
Do you know, I think sort of my summary of this is when TOS

2956
02:08:27.300 --> 02:08:31.560
finished and then the movies picked up the story, there were still

2957
02:08:31.560 --> 02:08:36.000
more stories to tell, we'd only had 3 seasons, half those episodes

2958
02:08:36.000 --> 02:08:36.720
have been terrible.

2959
02:08:36.779 --> 02:08:40.800
Like, you know, those movies did lots of different, interesting

2960
02:08:40.800 --> 02:08:42.420
entertaining things.

2961
02:08:42.479 --> 02:08:45.899
We've had 7 seasons of the next generation.

2962
02:08:45.960 --> 02:08:50.100
And they've been churning out all kinds of stories and they've

2963
02:08:50.100 --> 02:08:52.680
done fresh, interesting, like original things.

2964
02:08:52.739 --> 02:08:58.020
They've also done very tedious sort of things and repetitive space

2965
02:08:58.020 --> 02:08:58.500
problems.

2966
02:08:59.100 --> 02:09:04.199
But I don't think there were any more stories to tell, really, were

2967
02:09:04.199 --> 02:09:04.500
they?

2968
02:09:04.560 --> 02:09:08.159
And like even 1st contact, which is a really great movie, it's the

2969
02:09:08.159 --> 02:09:09.479
more threatening the earth.

2970
02:09:09.539 --> 02:09:13.260
It's going back to Zefron Cocker, and it's all stuff they've done

2971
02:09:13.260 --> 02:09:13.500
before.

2972
02:09:13.560 --> 02:09:16.859
I don't think there's an original thing in any of these movies.

2973
02:09:16.920 --> 02:09:20.460
But it's clear that they haven't exhausted all of the

2974
02:09:20.460 --> 02:09:23.340
possibilities that Star Trek affords because we're still

2975
02:09:23.340 --> 02:09:26.579
successfully making Star Trek over 20 years later.

2976
02:09:26.640 --> 02:09:31.560
I think there's creative exhaustion at this and it was very

2977
02:09:31.560 --> 02:09:36.060
visible in series 7 of Star Trek the Next Generation.

2978
02:09:36.119 --> 02:09:39.300
You know, they couldn't think of anything new to do, and it

2979
02:09:39.300 --> 02:09:43.920
becomes clear in Voyager where they're kind of recombining and

2980
02:09:43.920 --> 02:09:47.399
reheating old TNG plots and stuff.

2981
02:09:47.399 --> 02:09:50.939
And they're doing more than that in Voyager.

2982
02:09:51.000 --> 02:09:55.500
The only original angle that the franchise can take at this point

2983
02:09:55.500 --> 02:10:00.479
is that static setting of DS9 and consequences and long form

2984
02:10:00.479 --> 02:10:01.319
storytelling.

2985
02:10:01.380 --> 02:10:03.239
Yeah, doing that, let's not forget.

2986
02:10:03.300 --> 02:10:04.500
No one wanted to do that.

2987
02:10:04.560 --> 02:10:07.079
The studios were like, oh, you know, what are you doing?

2988
02:10:07.079 --> 02:10:08.819
This original storytelling.

2989
02:10:08.880 --> 02:10:15.659
And it is kind of sad because at this point, sort of the interest

2990
02:10:15.659 --> 02:10:19.380
in Next Generation waned with each movie to the point where

2991
02:10:19.380 --> 02:10:22.680
Nemesis came along and was considered the film that killed the

2992
02:10:22.680 --> 02:10:26.819
franchise, you know, until it was picked up by Kurtzman.

2993
02:10:26.880 --> 02:10:27.840
How long later?

2994
02:10:27.899 --> 02:10:28.920
15 years, a long time.

2995
02:10:28.979 --> 02:10:29.880
No, no, no.

2996
02:10:29.939 --> 02:10:35.880
I think until 2009, the Star Trek movies, the JJ Abrams Star Trek

2997
02:10:35.880 --> 02:10:36.119
movies.

2998
02:10:36.659 --> 02:10:39.960
Which was such a departure from what I'd been before, wasn't it?

2999
02:10:40.079 --> 02:10:41.760
certainly in how it was executed.

3000
02:10:41.880 --> 02:10:45.420
Yeah, I think that those are pretty successful.

3001
02:10:45.479 --> 02:10:46.979
I don't like the middle one very much.

3002
02:10:47.039 --> 02:10:49.979
I like the 1st one and the 3rd one quite a lot.

3003
02:10:50.039 --> 02:10:52.979
I think they're sort of enjoyable and they get the spirit of it.

3004
02:10:53.039 --> 02:10:55.260
They're well cast, you know, they're fun.

3005
02:10:55.319 --> 02:10:57.420
Like they kind of know to be fun.

3006
02:10:57.479 --> 02:10:59.520
Do you think this is the worst?

3007
02:10:59.520 --> 02:11:02.699
Next Generation movie, or do you think that's nemesis?

3008
02:11:02.760 --> 02:11:05.340
I think maybe nemesis, but it has been a long while.

3009
02:11:05.399 --> 02:11:08.760
So this is a film that I have gone back and rewatched from time to

3010
02:11:08.760 --> 02:11:13.680
time. whereas I don't believe that I've ever gone back and watched

3011
02:11:13.680 --> 02:11:15.779
Nemesis after seeing it in the cinema.

3012
02:11:15.899 --> 02:11:18.960
I could be wrong but it's just possible that I've seen it only

3013
02:11:18.960 --> 02:11:19.739
once.

3014
02:11:19.800 --> 02:11:22.439
So I might be wrong.

3015
02:11:22.500 --> 02:11:27.659
I might watch it and discover that it's aged like fine wine in the

3016
02:11:27.659 --> 02:11:28.500
last 20 years.

3017
02:11:28.560 --> 02:11:29.640
I doubt it.

3018
02:11:29.760 --> 02:11:32.399
I think there's a spectacle to nemesis.

3019
02:11:33.000 --> 02:11:36.300
Yeah, obviously, because it's made after this that far surpasses

3020
02:11:36.300 --> 02:11:36.720
this movie.

3021
02:11:36.779 --> 02:11:40.260
There's a sequence where 2 ships collide, that is extraordinary.

3022
02:11:40.319 --> 02:11:44.100
But there's a darkness to it as well that feels like a total

3023
02:11:44.100 --> 02:11:44.939
betrayal.

3024
02:11:45.000 --> 02:11:46.680
Oh, next generation.

3025
02:11:46.739 --> 02:11:47.279
Yeah.

3026
02:11:47.340 --> 02:11:50.520
There was a deliberate choice there, wasn't there, to get someone

3027
02:11:50.520 --> 02:11:53.699
new in and to get a different look happening and there was an

3028
02:11:53.699 --> 02:11:54.479
awareness.

3029
02:11:54.539 --> 02:11:58.380
Like insurrection look so much like a Star Trek, the Next

3030
02:11:58.380 --> 02:12:01.800
Generation episode because you've got the same people doing all of

3031
02:12:01.800 --> 02:12:03.180
the same sort of stuff.

3032
02:12:03.239 --> 02:12:06.840
And so they decide to get a new director and get a new look

3033
02:12:06.840 --> 02:12:07.739
happening and stuff.

3034
02:12:07.739 --> 02:12:09.180
And it just...

3035
02:12:09.239 --> 02:12:10.800
Which wasn't a terrible idea.

3036
02:12:10.859 --> 02:12:12.060
No, absolutely not.

3037
02:12:12.060 --> 02:12:13.199
It didn't work.

3038
02:12:13.260 --> 02:12:18.960
And I think the crew, the axes really hated the director.

3039
02:12:19.020 --> 02:12:23.939
And you can you can almost tell they are begrudgingly making this

3040
02:12:23.939 --> 02:12:24.659
movie with him.

3041
02:12:25.619 --> 02:12:29.279
But like, okay, let's let's very quickly then.

3042
02:12:29.340 --> 02:12:33.239
I just want to show the 1st 10 minutes with Kirk, the crash of the

3043
02:12:33.239 --> 02:12:33.899
Enterprise.

3044
02:12:33.960 --> 02:12:38.039
This movie is not without, it's Lurser of Betel.

3045
02:12:38.100 --> 02:12:39.720
Not without his highlights.

3046
02:12:39.779 --> 02:12:44.520
As a whole though, I think it is a bit of a failure.

3047
02:12:44.579 --> 02:12:46.800
Yeah, I'd agree with that.

3048
02:12:46.859 --> 02:12:49.979
I had some fun. here and there and it's Star Trek.

3049
02:12:50.039 --> 02:12:50.880
I love Star Trek.

3050
02:12:50.939 --> 02:12:52.739
But yeah, I think it is a failure.

3051
02:12:57.300 --> 02:13:02.819
All right, it's the end of the episode, and we are now going to

3052
02:13:02.819 --> 02:13:05.039
choose what we're going to look at next time.

3053
02:13:05.100 --> 02:13:07.739
It's my turn to hit the button on the randomiser.

3054
02:13:07.800 --> 02:13:11.159
So Joe, ask me what series we're going to be choosing from.

3055
02:13:11.220 --> 02:13:13.920
Nathan, what series are we going to be choosing from?

3056
02:13:14.159 --> 02:13:20.460
We are going to choose a Kurtzman Trek, so a modern Trek episode

3057
02:13:20.460 --> 02:13:25.079
from any of the 6 series that that comprises.

3058
02:13:25.140 --> 02:13:30.119
So Discovery, Short Treks, Picard, Lower Decks, Prodigy, and

3059
02:13:30.119 --> 02:13:31.199
Strange New Worlds.

3060
02:13:31.260 --> 02:13:32.880
It's wide open.

3061
02:13:32.939 --> 02:13:38.340
Eclectic bunch of TV shows. is quite a variety there.

3062
02:13:38.460 --> 02:13:39.659
All right, here goes.

3063
02:13:40.619 --> 02:13:49.380
Ooh, so it's Star Trek Lower Decks. series 3, episode one

3064
02:13:49.380 --> 02:13:50.699
grounded.

3065
02:13:51.180 --> 02:13:53.159
Oh.

3066
02:13:54.000 --> 02:13:55.979
Tented, you know?

3067
02:13:56.039 --> 02:13:56.699
No.

3068
02:13:56.760 --> 02:14:00.899
So series 2 ends with a cliffhanger, which you're probably not

3069
02:14:00.899 --> 02:14:01.680
even aware of.

3070
02:14:01.739 --> 02:14:06.479
And so episode one of series 3 resolves the cliffhanger or is

3071
02:14:06.479 --> 02:14:09.239
mostly about Mariner trying to resolve the cliffhanger.

3072
02:14:09.300 --> 02:14:13.859
And so she's grounded in both senses in the sense that, you know

3073
02:14:13.859 --> 02:14:15.479
she's not allowed to do things.

3074
02:14:15.479 --> 02:14:20.640
She has to behave, but also, you know, the captain's gone and blah

3075
02:14:20.640 --> 02:14:21.180
blah, blah.

3076
02:14:21.239 --> 02:14:21.840
What do you reckon?

3077
02:14:21.899 --> 02:14:23.880
No, I'm going to press it again.

3078
02:14:23.939 --> 02:14:25.680
Oh, balls.

3079
02:14:25.739 --> 02:14:27.000
I really want us to do lower decks.

3080
02:14:27.060 --> 02:14:27.359
Go on.

3081
02:14:28.680 --> 02:14:32.460
Okay, series two, episode 10, the Red Angel.

3082
02:14:32.520 --> 02:14:35.819
This is Discovery, Star Trek Discovery, series two, episode 10.

3083
02:14:36.000 --> 02:14:37.079
The Red Angel.

3084
02:14:37.199 --> 02:14:39.899
That's tempting as well because I know that's the one season of

3085
02:14:39.899 --> 02:14:43.260
discovery that you are a little on the fence with.

3086
02:14:43.319 --> 02:14:45.779
Yeah, and it's quite near the end as well.

3087
02:14:45.840 --> 02:14:48.359
I think they might be the big revelation or something about

3088
02:14:48.359 --> 02:14:50.100
Michael's mother there.

3089
02:14:50.159 --> 02:14:52.319
Isn't she the red angel?

3090
02:14:52.380 --> 02:14:54.119
I can't really remember.

3091
02:14:54.180 --> 02:14:57.720
I just remember she does a lot of crying about it, whatever it

3092
02:14:57.720 --> 02:14:57.840
is.

3093
02:14:57.899 --> 02:14:58.800
Yeah she does.

3094
02:14:58.859 --> 02:14:59.399
She does.

3095
02:14:59.460 --> 02:15:01.859
I'm going to give it another go.

3096
02:15:02.039 --> 02:15:03.479
Okay.

3097
02:15:06.659 --> 02:15:08.880
It's one we've done already.

3098
02:15:08.939 --> 02:15:12.300
Time of Mark Star Trek prodigy series, season one, episode eight.

3099
02:15:12.420 --> 02:15:14.819
Oh, that's a fun show.

3100
02:15:14.880 --> 02:15:16.500
Yeah, it is.

3101
02:15:16.560 --> 02:15:20.819
Okay, lower decks, Star Trek Lower Deck, series 3, episode 4 room

3102
02:15:20.819 --> 02:15:21.779
for growth.

3103
02:15:21.840 --> 02:15:23.939
Series 3 episode four.

3104
02:15:24.000 --> 02:15:25.680
That's not the DS9 one. is it?

3105
02:15:25.739 --> 02:15:26.880
No.

3106
02:15:26.939 --> 02:15:29.340
Oh, what a shame.

3107
02:15:29.399 --> 02:15:32.340
Yeah, so this is a little bit of a strange one.

3108
02:15:32.399 --> 02:15:34.260
It is a little bit of a strange one.

3109
02:15:34.319 --> 02:15:35.760
It is funny.

3110
02:15:35.819 --> 02:15:36.899
Obviously they all are.

3111
02:15:36.960 --> 02:15:41.399
But it's stuff about the engineering crew being overworked and

3112
02:15:41.399 --> 02:15:43.979
going to a spa and all sorts of stuff like that.

3113
02:15:44.039 --> 02:15:45.479
It's uh, it's fun.

3114
02:15:45.960 --> 02:15:47.699
They're all fun.

3115
02:15:48.239 --> 02:15:50.579
I'm going to press another button.

3116
02:15:50.699 --> 02:15:51.239
One more time.

3117
02:15:51.600 --> 02:15:54.000
Oh, okay, it's this.

3118
02:15:54.060 --> 02:16:01.319
So this is Star Trek, Lower Decks, season two, episode four, Mugato

3119
02:16:01.319 --> 02:16:02.460
Gumato.

3120
02:16:02.520 --> 02:16:08.279
So it is... this is really great.

3121
02:16:09.600 --> 02:16:12.479
Do you know what the Megato are?

3122
02:16:12.539 --> 02:16:20.640
They're sort of white furred alien gorillas with a big horn at the

3123
02:16:20.640 --> 02:16:21.420
top of their head?

3124
02:16:21.479 --> 02:16:25.199
Yeah, and the reason it's called Legato.

3125
02:16:25.260 --> 02:16:29.640
It's called Megato Gomato because everyone pronounces the name of

3126
02:16:29.640 --> 02:16:35.040
those aliens in that Star Trek episode incorrectly in various

3127
02:16:35.040 --> 02:16:35.579
different ways.

3128
02:16:35.639 --> 02:16:38.040
And so this.

3129
02:16:38.100 --> 02:16:42.479
This is about, this is about people who are, they have to sort of

3130
02:16:42.479 --> 02:16:46.440
deal with people who are smuggling and illegally trading in these

3131
02:16:46.440 --> 02:16:49.440
Gumatos or Megatos or whatever they're called.

3132
02:16:49.440 --> 02:16:51.780
And it's really, really properly funny.

3133
02:16:51.840 --> 02:16:52.920
I really like it.

3134
02:16:52.979 --> 02:16:54.600
So I think we're going with that.

3135
02:16:54.659 --> 02:16:55.200
What do you reckon?

3136
02:16:55.260 --> 02:16:57.000
That sounds amazing.

3137
02:16:57.059 --> 02:17:01.500
I'm almost certain that this will have the charm, character

3138
02:17:01.500 --> 02:17:06.420
development, and set pieces that Star Trek generations fail to

3139
02:17:06.420 --> 02:17:06.719
deliver.

3140
02:17:06.780 --> 02:17:08.100
I can guarantee it.

3141
02:17:24.600 --> 02:17:28.440
You've been listening to Untitled Star Trek Project with Joe Ford

3142
02:17:28.440 --> 02:17:29.520
and Nathan Bottomley.

3143
02:17:29.579 --> 02:17:32.579
We're online at Untitled Star Trek project.com, where you can find

3144
02:17:32.579 --> 02:17:34.799
links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.

3145
02:17:34.860 --> 02:17:38.100
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Ciceran, and the theme was

3146
02:17:38.100 --> 02:17:39.780
composed by Cameron Lamb.

3147
02:17:39.899 --> 02:17:43.200
This episode was recorded on the 12th of December 2022 and

3148
02:17:43.200 --> 02:17:44.760
released on the 23rd of December.

3149
02:17:44.819 --> 02:17:49.139
We'll see you next time for Star Trek Lower Decks, Mugato Gumato.

3150
02:18:22.200 --> 02:18:24.059
Guess whose go it is on the randomiser?

3151
02:18:24.120 --> 02:18:25.979
Yours.

3152
02:18:26.040 --> 02:18:26.760
Mm hmm.

3153
02:18:29.879 --> 02:18:31.379
I haven't had any thoughts.

3154
02:18:31.440 --> 02:18:37.139
Jesus Christ, I must go to the loop. clock. to the end. you dare

3155
02:18:37.139 --> 02:18:37.860
for that in at the end.

3156
02:18:38.459 --> 02:18:40.500
Me talking about Tom.

3157
02:18:40.979 --> 02:18:44.040
We've been recording for 2 hours and 33 minutes.

3158
02:18:44.219 --> 02:18:45.840
I know.

3159
02:18:48.899 --> 02:18:50.219
Fair criticism is about that, though.

3160
02:18:50.340 --> 02:18:51.899
Yeah, yeah.

3161
02:18:51.959 --> 02:18:52.920
Look, it's all right.

3162
02:18:52.979 --> 02:18:53.579
It's okay.

3163
02:18:53.639 --> 02:18:56.100
Like, it's just, like, no one died.

3164
02:18:56.159 --> 02:18:57.120
It's a Star Trek movie.

3165
02:18:57.180 --> 02:18:59.760
It's fine, but, um, just not very good.

3166
02:18:59.819 --> 02:19:04.020
I just think people love us when we're, We don't enjoy things

3167
02:19:04.020 --> 02:19:04.620
so...

3168
02:19:05.459 --> 02:19:08.340
We get more comments about those episodes.

3169
02:19:11.040 --> 02:19:13.379
Ah, what do I want to do?

3170
02:19:13.440 --> 02:19:14.940
What do I want to do?

3171
02:19:15.659 --> 02:19:18.239
Not Star Trek.

3172
02:19:18.239 --> 02:19:19.020
Do is do it.

3173
02:19:19.020 --> 02:19:20.040
What those guys?

3174
02:19:20.100 --> 02:19:21.180
Zika, Zika.

3175
02:19:22.860 --> 02:19:25.139
No, we've done a bit of that now.

3176
02:19:25.200 --> 02:19:26.280
We've done a bit of DS9.

3177
02:19:26.459 --> 02:19:27.780
We did a bit too well.

3178
02:19:27.840 --> 02:19:29.219
We haven't gone to Curtsment for ages.

3179
02:19:29.280 --> 02:19:30.239
We probably should, you know.

3180
02:19:30.899 --> 02:19:32.819
Maybe discovery.

3181
02:19:33.540 --> 02:19:35.819
Maybe strange new else.

3182
02:19:36.719 --> 02:19:39.180
Okay, I'm going to put that in as well.

3183
02:19:40.500 --> 02:19:45.059
We've only done ever done 2 Picard, so that's...

3184
02:19:45.059 --> 02:19:46.739
We've only done any lower decks.

3185
02:19:46.799 --> 02:19:48.059
Can't you just put elsewhere?

3186
02:19:48.120 --> 02:19:49.319
Put it all in.

3187
02:19:49.379 --> 02:19:52.379
Sorry, I hate to manipulate you like this.

3188
02:19:52.440 --> 02:19:53.100
No, that's good.

3189
02:19:54.180 --> 02:19:57.239
All right, it's the end of the episode.