Hey, Joe. Hi.
So, we chose last week, I'm just contextualising this, because
basically we have only ourselves to blame.
Last week we said we were going to roll and reroll until we got a
bad Star Trek, the Next Generation episode and preferably one from
series one or series two.
And I think Mission accomplished.
I think this might be the worst episode we've ever done.
To quote you in a previous episode, Mayo, I congratulate us on a
spectacular success.
Yeah, because this was tubious on a level.
I didn't know existed until I watched it.
Yeah, and that's the point of it.
I mean, we've done clunkers.
We had great fun watching sub rows.
You had fun watching Spock's brain.
I mean, we've watched things that are sort of generally regarded
as kind of terrible, but I've never been so bored and I really
struggle to concentrate all the way through.
It's really bad.
The thing that really leapt out at me about this one was, I was
going, what the hell am I going to talk about in this episode?
you know?
And then it was sort of all the stuff around it that was far more
interesting than the episode itself.
This is Troy and that, you know, the implications of Roddenbury
sex obsession that comes into TNG.
You know, the season 2 writer strike, that affected this, early
TNG, which is a very interesting place to visit.
Yeah, but the episode itself, there's just nothing to this.
There's no substance to it.
There's no sort of, I don't think there's a narrative.
They suggest at the end of this that there was a plot all along
but the plot doesn't exist until that last scene.
Yeah.
And there's not even like a character story going on here, isn't
it?
It's just, Mrs. Troy is horny.
That's the point.
Yeah, and you know, it's easy to imagine an episode with that
premise that's actually funny and that's not kind of mean-spirited
towards Mrs. Troy, but that's not what we get here.
And partly it's because they're all doing their early performances
and Marina in particular needed to be funnier than she's kind of
allowing herself to be here.
There is a world's difference between, I don't know, Nepenthe that
we watched in Picard.
I mean, they could practically be different characters.
She has got a stick so far up her butt in this episode.
And like some of these lines, they're not great lines, but if you
just said them, like if you relax the little bit and have some fun
with them, instead, she's just playing the whole thing up tight.
I'm like, this just isn't funny.
No, and I think that has to be how she's been instructed to do it
or how the character is conceived, I think.
And so like that's a problem.
What, what I think the, the basic problem is, is that there's plot
but no story.
And so it's very clear that the writers are just desperate to come
up with 45 minutes of material.
And so none of it matters.
It is just using up the time.
And it's a series 2 problem, I think, because they don't have
riders.
You know, sometimes they're recycling old scripts from Star Trek
phase two, like the child.
And sometimes they're just kind of, well, I mean, it's a short
season.
Yeah, yeah.
This is a short season. shade of gray at the end of the season.
They're like, well we've got no story at all.
Let's just do some linking narration around clips and put a load
of clips out.
Yeah, I've seen that done pretty well on other shows, but they
just fudge it in Shade of Grey.
This is written by Tracy Tormay, who contributes a fair amount of
episodes in series one or two.
There's actually a sequel to 2 Tracy Tourmet episodes.
It's a sequel to Haven, which is the 1st Luaxander Troy episode
and it's a sequel to The Big Goodbye, which is the 1st Dixon Hill
episode.
And I don't think Haven's great, but I actually think Mrs. Troy is
a lot of fun in that episode and she brings a bit of sort of crass
humour to TNG that he desperately needed in season one, which is
so bloody po-faced.
And the Dixon Hill episode in season one is one of the best and
they really lean into that sort of noir-ish atmosphere and it's
stylish as hell.
And may I say Gates McFadden looks absolutely bloody gorgeous when
she steps onto that holodeck.
But for some reason, bringing those 2 things together here, well
that just doesn't work at all.
No, no.
What's interesting is that this was heavily rewritten by Maurice
Hurley, who nobody has a good word to say about, and it sounds
like he spent most of that 2nd season pissing everybody off
including the regulars.
And Tracy Tomay took his name off this because he was so appalled
with the rewrites that Maurice Hurley had dumb.
And originally this was supposed to be a much more leaning into
the Dixon Hill and having a plot within the Dixon Hill.
What happens is, is those 2 plots jam together very awkwardly.
I was watching this from my other half and he was going, how is
this and this, Mrs. Troy?
and this detective story?
How is this connected?
And then it's just her coming on there.
Like falling in love with one of the holodeck characters for 2
minutes.
Yes.
And then the episode ends.
It's just so awkward.
No, it's not like, you know, we've had episodes with an A plot and
a B plot that haven't been related to one another and don't kind
of have any particular resonance.
And that's kind of a failure mode, but it usually works okay.
This is worse than that because there's really just nothing.
I mean, there's really nothing here at all.
And like there's nothing particularly Star Trek about it either.
It's kind of a sitcom episode where the horny mother-in-law turns
up or something. where none of the gags land.
No, I thought mind a bit of crass humour, you know.
I love those 70s, BBC sitcoms, and things like that, but none of
this dialogue is witty, and it's all so overplayed.
I mean, Patrick Stewart is doing everything but looking straight
to camera, you know, going, ooh, you know, all the old ones after
me, you know.
What must they have thought of what they'd got themselves in for
because series one is bad, but in a different way from this.
And in a way, this is worse than series one, I think.
Because series one has all these lapses of taste and it doesn't
quite know what it's doing and stuff, but generally speaking, you
have a functioning story of some kind at least.
And I think there's some ambition in the sort of breadth of
storytelling they're trying to do in series one.
They've kind of found their feet in series 2, found a feet as in
the story, type of stories they're going to tell, and then they
just tell more, but just kind of badly.
Well, I think that there's probably a roundabout, we were sort of
calculating this earlier today.
I reckon there's probably 5 or 6 that are actual functional
stories.
And even in those, there's a lot of time devoted to just staying
alive for 45 minutes so we can run the closing credits.
And that seems to be kind of the principal motivation for many of
the other stories.
But like this is a season. kinder, aren't I?
a little bit kind of, and that's only because I think some of the
really dreadful episodes this season are actually a lot of fun
like the dolphin and things like that.
I mean, it's appalling, but it's, you know, wharf clawing around
on the floor with a Klingon woman and things like this.
It's dreadful, but it's very funny.
I think too, what it does is something that I kind of secretly
like.
And I remember watching the child for the 1st time.
So the 1st Star Trek, The Next Generation I watched was series one
when it was released on home video here in Australia, and all but
2 of the episodes.
They didn't do home soil or too shorter season.
They didn't get released, but the rest of series one was released
in random order and stuff and I watched them all and I was kind of
interested.
But when series 2 comes along, it's better looking, there's the
set, which we turn forward set is there.
And and they've moved Geordie.
Whoopi Goldberg.
Yeah, yeah, they've moved Geordie into engineering, which is, you
know, the party.
He's slightly less obnoxious and in a better uniform than he was.
You know, they have made some good innovations.
They just haven't brought in good writers.
No.
And you've got Pulaski, who I think is really great as well.
We've got to talk about her in this because we haven't got much of
a chance.
She only in this one series before.
Dr Ben's back.
Yeah, but what we get is a lot of hang time with the crew, because
there's no functioning story.
And so it is just the crew hanging around doing things.
And I secretly sort of like that a bit.
I mean, it doesn't make me think these episodes are good, but it
is just sort of spending time on the ship.
Like in this episode, there's one where, you know how they were
very excited in encounter a far point about the flashing lights
that would lead you down the corridor if you couldn't find where
the thing is and they show them here.
You know, just remember, we've got flashing lights and it's sort
of terrifically exciting.
So that sort of stuff, I secretly kind of like.
And so all of those episodes have a little bit more of that.
Whereas later on when Star Trek becomes properly good and it
becomes good immediately, I think, in series 3, where the stories
are the focus and that's how it should be.
There's a little bit less time for that filler.
And I kind of secretly like the filler a little bit.
It is awkward about that, is the characters aren't quite formed
yeah.
Are they?
Or how as good as they're going to be?
So we're hanging out with these sort of 2 thirds formed
characters.
Yeah, this weird simulacra of the people we know and love.
We should probably go in, but before we do, I really quickly want
to drop that I listen to a couple of things are a couple of
podcasts and a video on YouTube of Michelle Barrett, who is an
incredibly erudite, incredibly smart woman, and really, really
interesting.
It's definitely worth seeking out any interview you can get with
her.
And one thing she drops is that like middle-aged women were coming
up to her after she started playing Mrs. Troy, saying, thank you
so much.
I am so pleased there is this sexually voracious woman on TV.
There's, you know, of mature years.
And that is kind of refreshing.
It's a shame it doesn't work here.
There are other points where it does.
I love her and Renee Oberjohn White in DS9.
I think that works a tree, especially when they make they do some
really poignant stuff with that.
Well, she has a sort of auntie maime thing going, like in cost of
living where she takes Alexander under her wing.
Yeah, yeah.
And then she turns up to the wedding naked.
Like she's marrying this really straight laced guy and that's how
she gets rid of this.
Are you enjoying your life?
Like, is the wolf fun?
It's so good.
That's really fun. people generally don't regard that episode very
highly, but I think it's really good for this.
Terrific.
I mean, it's got Bron Bosnell in it.
Sorry, it's not entirely good, but you know.
But the other thing that they discover later on, of course, is
that she can properly act.
And so they put her up against David Ogden Spears, which I think
is really terrific.
It's half a life, I think it's called.
The sequence in the Forth Aken where she takes off that wig in the
turbo lift and he melts into her lap and she says, you know, let
go. going to take care of you.
And those moments where she drops the mask and shows that she's
really vulnerable.
Major Barrett is brilliant.
But the other story that she drops, which I thought this was
fantastic, and this showed me, you know, the nuts that she has as
an actress in the 60s, because obviously she played number one in
the original Star Trek pilot, she watched an amazing part in this
incredible show, because she's not married to Jean Robinbury at
this point.
And obviously the studio execs look at the pilot and go, well, look
we're not putting that out.
But if you make all these revisions and take the woman out of a
command position because no one's ever going to buy into that, like
the bloody prehistoric dinosaurs that they are.
Well, I think they thought she was too manish.
She wasn't womanly enough or something.
But then they thought the spot character didn't work either.
I mean, these people didn't.
I think studio executives through the ages don't really have a
clue, you know.
They're those same people that were in the suits watching Kate
Mulgra in the 1st series game.
Is she going to be any good?
Anywho, Michelle Barrett is heartbroken because she really wanted
this role and she says, she quotes saying, oh, Jim Rumby took the
woman out of the show, but brought the woman into its home, so
asked her to marry him because he couldn't bear to break her
heart.
And by all accounts, they had a very successful and wonderful
marriage.
And she says, like Star Trek never came into the home.
So the fact that they were both doing Star Treky things all the
time.
It never ever came.
It was a very normal domestic life.
But she wanted a part in this show.
And she was, because she was with Jean Roberts, she was reading
the scripts and then this character of Nurse Chappell turned up
and she's like, well, I ain't number one, but it's still a part in
this show.
I'm going to audition for this.
So she dyed her hair blonde.
And then she went in to audition for the show.
Gene Robinbury came into his office, walked past her, smiled at
her, said hello, did not recognise her at all, went into his
office, came out again.
He did it 3 times.
He saw her and did, and then he went, May Joe?
And he realised it was her.
And she was like, if I can convince him, I can convince anyone.
She did the auditions in front of the execs and they had no clue
it was the same woman they'd watched in the pilot.
They changed her name in the pilot credits, so she could slip
through the net for that episode, and that's the only reason she
got on Star Trek due to this like massive subterfuge.
I thought it was wonderful.
What a great story.
And thus begun her just amazing journey with Star Trek, you know?
Like, and like Mrs. Troy or Done, she really impacted this show
and she is a character that people remember.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
It's a bit of a shame how she's treated here, though, sadly. and a
few other places as well.
What do you reckon?
Yeah, let's do it.
Okay, I'll count us in.
Five, four, three, two, one, and we're off.
It was nice to say some positive things there, you know, before
we...
So miserable, isn't it?
The Enterprise gracefully heading past that panic...
Oh, do you know what?
These dress uniforms.
My other wife goes to me.
Why are they all wearing dresses?
Yeah.
I said, it's the future, darling. of course.
Are people still wearing the scans?
Are they men wearing the scans?
I think that doesn't survive past series one.
It's just series one. yeah.
Berman's involved at this point is like, no, we're not having
women in men in skirts.
Come on.
For God's sake.
So here we have Fleetwood Mac turning up in Star Trek.
The Mick Fleetwood.
I think he's probably the front one, but there's no way of
telling.
There's alios are so shit.
They're really bad.
Do you remember the Anticans and the Soleil in series one?
Incredible.
Yeah, the Lion people and the fish people and they're actually not
fish people.
They're cobras or something.
Very well designed and realised.
And it's not the sort of thing that Star Trek tends to go back
to.
It tends to just be Americans with sort of ridges on them.
But this, like, it's a banned costume.
Well, I don't think like the heads would be so bad if they weren't
in those bizarre shower curtains.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, the heads are still very bad.
There's nothing.
And you can bless Diana Moldarf or try to make them seem
convincing, you know?
I think that they are the recipient of the episode's only joke
that lands, so we will get there.
But I think that they, you know, the thing that's bad about them
isn't just the sort of stupid mouths and stuff and the fact that
they have obvious gills in front of the actors' eyes so that they
can see where they're going, even though they never go anywhere.
Like, you know, they're just shocking.
Yeah this is it.
This is it, where Worf looks at them and goes water, handsome
race.
And then... you know what?
There was one other joke.
I thought work with them was when she went, I still think they'd
look better. they'd be better in sauce or something like that.
But the 1st time, like the 1st line is a non-joke, like it
attempts to be a joke.
She says something.
She says something like I've, you know, I've seen things like that
served at dinner or something.
It's kind of, come on, that's not a joke.
But it also makes you wonder how Mrs. Troy ever became an
ambassador with tact like that.
Yeah, you know, super racist in this.
I love this bit though.
So this is Deanna actually successfully detecting something and
she's horrified and then we discover it's her mother, which I
think is actually pretty good.
Although it's a little bit unfortunate to have her use the word
articulate when she's talking about a black man.
Like that's a particular kind of word that needs to be used with a
lot more care than they see and uses it.
And so it's a bit shit, I think.
But the way she pushes him aside, sort of smothers over him and
goes right in front of that camera there.
That is a good sign of the subtlety you're going to get in this
episode.
You know?
I love her contacts, you know, black eyes.
Yeah, well, I mean, Marina's got them, but she would have dark
eyes anyway, but she's wearing the black context too.
They just look more striking with because Marina's got that sort
of, you know, she's Greek background.
She's got that sort of colouring.
It looks more striking, I think.
I just feel like, you know, Patrick Stewart, yeah.
I feel like this should be very funny because he's so serious in
series one and two.
So seeing him on the back foot like this.
It should be really quite funny and it's just awkward to watch.
Yeah, no, it's embarrassing to watch.
I just kept thinking, you know, doesn't he have that story about
how he sort of didn't unpack his suitcase during...
That's right.
Like you know, he must have been thinking, God, this is going to
be over quite quickly, isn't it?
Because it is...
I saw a story where he's like, I'm going to quit in series 5
unless you let me direct more episodes and give me more women.
He knew he was onto a winner at that point, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, the show's good at that point, I think.
Could we very quickly talk about Pulaski?
Yeah, because I am a massive fan.
Now, I don't think it always lands well because they're not always
writing to character strengths in season two, but the fact that
they brought in a character that would deliberately create tension
amongst this nicely nice crew.
I think it's so refreshing.
When Dr. Bev comes back and I know you like Ace McFadden.
But fuck me, she is a boring character in comparison.
I think the problem is that Wesley is now there for literally no
reason at all and that's a problem.
Oh, he's not.
I was too old when I watched this, to be a trader.
I'm too old now, and I still...
Yeah, so like it's just leaves him kind of hanging with no primary
relationship.
And I think it's just a bit of a shame as well.
You know, they can't keep the regular.
Being mean to data, did they?
Do you remember when she comes home?
She calls him a robot and things like that.
It's absolutely trying to do the De Forrest Kelly thing, isn't
it?
And...
Yeah, see this?
Where are my legs?
What's that?
That's not funny.
What's, what, like, it's, yeah, she's doing Deforest Kelly here
being distrustful of the, of the transporter.
It's just not great.
Well, so is Pulaski.
Do you remember Pulaski don't like the transport, either?
The shirt's right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Last night I saw something like that.
It was being served on a plate. that's not a joke.
That's not a joke.
Do you know what I mean?
It's just rude.
But it, like, it was being served on a plate.
Like, go to more effort than that.
The source line later is slightly better, but, you know, it's a
nothing line.
The joke was... weird obsession with sexy legs as well.
What's that all about?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, she kind of even see their legs.
Holy shit, special guest appearance by Mick Fleetwood.
There we go.
Oh, I love Mr. Holm.
No.
I do like Mr. Holm.
Yeah, yeah.
And he goes on to play what's his face in the Adams family, doesn't
he?
Oh, lurch, is it?
Lurch.
That's right.
And the previous lurch had been on Star Trek as well.
Like, had been on a... designed to say that word, you know.
Oh okay.
Which one?
Oh, and this, like, this is, again, that's funny for a second, but
then...
And then we have to watch it for 5 minutes as he's taken that. just
misery.
So he can't lift the thing and he's doing his best lifting of
giant piece of polystyrene acting like he's really kind of going
for it, but it's actually not that funny.
I really, the best joke or the one that landed the most for me was
it was because there was no dialogue whatsoever.
It's when Picard goes to the party and Mr. Holm drinks the entire
drink in front of him and it's like a minute sequence of Picard
just going, oh, that was for us, you know, for everybody.
Oh, this day called Nathan.
This Enterprise decor in the guest suite.
Yeah.
It's very 1980s sort of...
Hotel, isn't it?
It's it's pretty easy.
It's like a terrible hotel.
It really, really.
But, you know, like whatever and they're clearly trying to get
away from the primary colours of the original show.
Why?
I'm not sure.
We did trouble or tribbles, how vibrant that was.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
It sort of, it sort of popped off the screen.
This does not pop.
It's just like, you know, visual wallpaper.
Yeah, but, I mean, that's a problem that they never get away
from.
Is it?
It's the whole non-reflective surfaces problem that we, that
plagues 20, how many seasons, 25 seasons of this?
Many, yeah.
So the Mrs. Troy and Deanna relationship.
I do believe the chemistry between the 2 actresses.
And occasionally they write it well, but I think it's one of the
strongest pairings that Star Trek ever gave us.
Yeah.
I mean, it's when Marina relaxes and can be more visibly annoyed
but she's such a good girl at this point, she has to be a good
girl.
And so in this sex comedy thing, it doesn't quite work.
I think there's a funny moment where Riker, Riker's reaction to
some of this stuff is actually pretty good.
And, like, the whole premise, right?
So we've had Ponfar, right?
which is Spock is so horny that he has to go back to his home
planet or he'll die.
And so now we have the phase, which is sort of the Bajoran
menopause, which makes her finally, suddenly sexual.
And it's just a little bit pathetic.
Like, she's a little bit, like, it isn't quite the empowering.
It's not quite the empowering sort of portrayal of a middle-aged
woman who really enjoys sex and thinks of herself as sexy and
stuff.
It's not quite that.
It's a little bit pathetic and and they have her fall in love with
the holiday guy, you know, in like it's slightly depressing, I
think.
Well, it portrays her as being stupid as well.
Because then it has to be spelt out that he's not real, that, you
know, she's walked into this detective fiction environment and she
hasn't realised it's a, it's a holiday.
Like, how the hell is this woman an ambassador?
Yeah, that's right.
And she doesn't really understand the technology or anything like
that.
So she is portrayed as being a bit stupid.
Oh, so this.
So this is the plot where she's in I was sinking into my seat at
this point where I'm like, oh, come on, Picard.
Will you please realise you're the only person going to this
dinner?
has been invited?
Have you not worked that out?
She was looking at your bum earlier?
Like, get the message.
Although I did think he was quite smart when he pulled data in and
was like, absolutely fascinating, Mr. Data.
Please come and join us, you know.
But then data looks like an idiot.
There too.
And this is before data is properly settled down as well.
Here we go.
Here's Mr. Hol.
He's drinking.
Well, I think it's illegal, but it is blue.
So, possibly.
And it doesn't look like ale.
It always looks like whiskey or something.
So, I don't know.
There he goes.
We cut away so that the actor doesn't have to drink it all in one
go.
But the idea of a mature woman who is horny as hell.
That's not a terrible idea.
I know.
I know, and I don't think Star Trek should not do sex comedy.
I don't think it should not do sex comedy.
I think it should do everything.
You know, I know you say.
You've seen fascinations and the naked now.
But what about the naked now simulation in the lower debt?
That is the...
You can see born as butthole, don't you?
It's the rudest thing I've ever seen.
It's really, I mean, you know, that's fun.
I think Star Trek can do anything.
That's a great thing about it, but this is just bad.
And it's, it isn't quite the sophomoric attitude to sex that we
get in Voyager, where we sort of constantly sniggering about the
fact that beautiful women are beautiful and staff, you know, the
Delaney sisters and things is all sort of incredibly depressing.
But this, like, I like, again, the idea that someone who's super
stitched up and really kind of proper and stuff like Picard, is
threatened by her.
But there's a kind of, I don't know.
I don't know.
Well, no, I'm going to go back to Mrs. Troy and Odo again, though
because this story plays out again in the Forsaken, where, you
know, she's like alone at last when they're trapped in the turbo
lift, and she's in his office and how she's always been obsessed
with security men and all of this, and she's wearing a glamorous
cocktail dresses and coming onto him in extreme ways.
But then it breaks down to being 2 lonely people and it has a
point.
It tells us something about the characters. this ain't doing none
of that.
No.
And I think that they don't quite know what she's capable of until
too short a season.
And then they do, is it Dark Page the following year?
Is that not a popular episode, but I think it...
No, it is melodramatic.
It's very sort of, you know, middle of the day soap opera.
But she plays it very well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And, you know, it's been referenced in in Kurtzman Trek.
It's something that we remember.
That's so a sub-Rosa, remember?
Yeah, yeah.
Masks.
There ain't nothing.
They won't cherry pick.
Curs, but...
Outrageous O'Connors been in 2 series now.
Why didn't we get that one?
Honestly, why didn't instituce Terry Hatcher?
That is gold.
Oh, he's beautiful, isn't he?
So she is amazing.
You can play cheesy sax music.
Actually, I think as like a sex comedy, that works far better than
this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And so this is the other thing too, isn't it?
This is sexy, sort of.
I mean, it's not sexy in the sense of actually being kind of sexy
but it's about sex in a way, in a way that we stop doing once we
once series 3 happens and the show gets good and it becomes very
kind of sexless.
You know, it's not really a thing anymore.
That's what we call. the Berman effects.
Yeah, yeah.
I think that's right.
That's why when we leap over to DS9, everyone's at it because
Burma's not involved in that at all. that's right.
And they're kind of flying under the radar. they can do whatever
they want.
What is that all about?
What that kind of element of it can be a bit sleazier times.
Yeah.
And it's very apparent in the original series.
And it's certainly apparent when Roddenbury had a bit of creative
control over TNG.
Episodes like justice where they go down and there's people being
oiled up and snogging and women off to the side and it's all just
very strange.
And well, even the naked now, they decided that was the 1st
regular episode they wanted to do, was the crew all just get
incredibly horny for no readily apparent reason.
Well, do you remember that Irish episode where she's like, up the
long ladder?
Will you still respect me in the morning?
She's taking her dress off, you know?
Yeah, and, you know, like he wants to do a socialist utopia.
And so the idea that we're sort of sexually more liberated than we
were in the 20th century.
You know, that's good.
That would be interesting, but it never really. sort of, it never
really comes to that, does it?
We don't get.
What is interesting is he was happy to feminise men and he was
happy to include gay characters and the studios, it just he
knew...
Major Barrett says in that interview, he knew what fights. he
could pick and what ones he just shouldn't even bother with, you
know.
And I think there's like TV execs now like Rusty Davis, who people
go, well, why do they make those decisions?
You kind of you're in an environment where it's very controlled.
There are people in high positions that don't want certain things
on TV and, you know, like you have to accept what you can get away
with and what you can't.
But I mean, what's happened with Star Trek and sex is that it is
generally behind other shows in its portrayal. you know.
Um, and it just tends to be like, like there's something
depressingly ungrown up about sex in Voyager.
Like it's miserable, I think.
So this scene, I think, could have very nearly been funny, right?
So this is the 2 of them.
It's Pulaski and Troy working out what's happening in the
captain's quarters, suggesting that he's being kind of chased
around the quarters by a horny Mrs. Troy.
And they both decide, actually, screw it, we're just going to
leave him.
We're not going to go and rescue him.
And because...
The Pulaski that is, all right?
Yeah, but they can't let Deanna be naughty.
You know, and that is a massive shame because.
There should be like the huge sly smiles between them, shouldn't
there?
Yeah, you know.
Yeah, but she can't even do that.
Dexterousy is.
Okay It was because nobody's really having much fund in this, are
they?
When we watched Trouble with Tribbles, everyone was having so much
fun with that story and I was sort of charmingly very relaxed.
But it's written by someone.
That's the problem that this isn't written by anyone.
So the jokes, like the funny lines aren't funny and we're kind of
you know, I don't know, begging for scratch. the worst joke was in
this was when she goes up to Wesley and goes, oh, you're really
cute, but you know, a bit too young.
I'm like, what's going on here?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
She's literally going around the ship.
And because she's an ambassador, They've got to stand there and
take a lost it.
It's, honestly.
Surely there's some kind of training for that role, right?
Like some kind of diplomatic training that says you don't beam
onto a starship, make an incredibly racist comment and then come
onto the captain.
I think there is something in here. isn't.
Yeah, that's her.
Look, Dan is saying, why are you on board?
Why are you here?
You have the phase.
You know what's going on.
So why have you come on board the ship?
Like she tells her off for doing that?
Because it's unprofessional.
I don't know.
Mr. one joke is that he drinks everything.
Maybe he has one line in the 1st episode where he hands someone
the glass and says thanks for the drinks and then goes.
And so he has actually said something.
But you know what?
don't know.
I feel like we should have had an episode where Mr. Hobb and
Mayhar do.
That's the Grand Nagus, it's big giant stone.
And that's top, is that the same accent?
No, that's tiny Ron, isn't it?
Tiny Ron.
They should have met, you know?
Yeah, in a wordless sequence in a bar.
Yeah.
Yeah, look, Deanna's just rolling her eyes looking fed up with all
of this.
No, that's right.
Oh, so this, I think Riker's reaction here is quite funny.
She said what?
She said that you were horny for her, right?
Yeah, so this is we're explaining the phase, and she has told Will
about it when they were in a relationship.
Um, And but when he hears exactly how sexually voracious Betazoid
women become at a particular age, it's kind of like there's a
little moment where it's kind of, you like, you sort of smiles to
himself, it's kind of, um, you know, I really checked out of this
relationship a couple of decades too early.
You know, I like to imagine that they, she went through the phase
you know, she's now old, older.
You know, she's an old woman.
Well, we know they're back together again.
They are back together when she is mature.
So he's having a great time in that.
Yeah, we're going to come smiling.
Look at, like, he's...
He's properly relaxed, isn't he?
I think he's the humour in this.
Yeah, we didn't talk about the beard.
But as well.
Oh, the beard, man, it's a much better look.
Yeah, look at him smiling there.
Look at him.
Yeah.
So he's actually kind of making a joke at the captain's expense
and he's really enjoying himself.
It's almost a shame to cut back to Patrick Stewart with a massive
bug of his butt.
You know, I was thinking, like, they've mastered now, haven't they
the sort of awkward comedy with things like the Office and peep
show?
When people are in agonising situations and you're kind of
watching through your fingers going, oh, God.
This is very humourous, though.
I think that that particular type of humour is very English.
And I think, you know, Americans have been exposed to that as
English television has become more of a thing, more global.
I don't like it at all.
Like, I prefer my comedy to be a bit more crafted and a bit less
oh, my butt cheeks will not uncleenched for half an hour, you
know?
I kind of like it.
There's a kind of self-hatred in it, which I find very appealing.
You know, you know an Englishman.
You know how that works, all right?
Okay.
So here we go now into the Dixon Hill program.
And I must say Patrick Stewart looks very dapper.
Yeah, it is in his hand coat.
But these seasons is.
Well, it feels like it's starting to tell a story.
He goes in, he gets a case.
He goes to the bar.
Let's talk about this villain who's doing the rounds and it
doesn't go anywhere.
But in fact, he actually says, no, I don't want to do a story.
Do you know what I mean?
He just says, I'm he's kind of just hit a hide.
And so when a story, he comes in, a story starts happening now.
The guy with the newspaper, he's going to try and kill him or
whatever, and that's it.
You know, like he says, no, no, I don't want to do a story.
I just want to go to the bar.
I'm going to invite, what's her name?
The secretary.
Yeah, the secretary.
He's going to invite her and Madeline.
And so like, you know, so they all talk with the same accent now
do I know, yo?
Yeah, but she's great.
I think she is really good.
She looks out of the window in a minute, yeah.
Pump in some dreadful movie footage of the 1950s.
But in a big goodbye.
They actually staged an outside sequence outside. outside the
window.
Yeah, so this is the cheaper version.
Well, this this season famously has only one scene of location
footage in the entire... did not know that.
What's that?
It's Picard on his horse.
I can't even remember what episode it is, but he's on his horse.
And the rest is all in the studio.
Yeah, yeah.
Wowsers.
The series went outside more often than that.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
But basically what you said there about, you know, he says
computer, you know, too much plot. tone it down a bit.
Yes, exactly.
That's basically the right of saying, well, we just want to, we
want the atmosphere of this.
We want to have some nice sets and things like that.
But we don't want to do anything.
We can't go to the trouble of coming up with a story.
And so this is just a series of things that's happening.
So is there any way that these 2 stories, these very different
stories could be married successfully?
Well, no, because I just don't think there's anything there.
Like they've got no characteristics.
It is just, like, this scene is just eating up the running time.
What's happening in that scene?
Like he goes into the thing, he talks to Madeline for a bit and
then he sits down, like, what, what, what's that?
Like, I just can't see, is there's nothing there that that's
contributing to?
The see, the story would be identical, you know, without it, if we
just... in that detail.
When they go to the bar, it's like, well, what's happening here?
What's happening?
What are we doing?
Okay.
I mean, I know you like hang time, but there's got to be some
purpose to it, hasn't there?
Yeah, God, that's shit, isn't it?
That scene, looking out the window.
Oh, she was coming up in a minute.
That truly abysmal bit where she goes on the bridge and goes, and
I would like to announce the wedding of myself and Commander Riker
and I'm like, oh, God.
Yeah, yeah.
So she just looks stupid.
Like they make her stupid in this episode.
So because she thinks that she's sexually attractive to people, but
she's not and, you know, she keeps mistaking their disinterest for
interest and stuff.
That just makes her stupid.
Like this is an assassination of her character, I think.
Yeah, so right.
And on the 2nd attempt as well.
Yeah.
Well, the 1st attempt was better.
I think Haven is forgettable and, you know, a fairly nothing
episode, but it's a story.
There's actually like a beginning, middle and end.
This is just, you know, how long have we got to go?
You know, like it's...
Are you actually asking me that?
Do you know what I mean?
20 minutes, Nathan.
We've got 22 hours, 22 hours with commercials to make this year
and we're filling it up with things.
Yeah, but there's no stories.
Wait a sec.
Look who's here now.
Look who's here.
Oh, no, someone's coming in.
Oh, it's Robert O'Rrien, isn't it?
It is Robert O'Reilly comes in.
And even though I didn't initially recognise him in, um, Better
Being Better Bang, I absolutely recognise him instantly here as
Scarface.
That's the whole thing, you know.
Because he's in these these 2 sort of historical holiday
programs.
And then in Times Arrow, you get Marco Lemo playing a gambler and
that, and that bringing, they like bringing back, well, as actors
they can trust, I guess.
Yeah, yeah.
They take the makeup off.
So they're a different person.
Exactly.
Yeah, they may as well, they may be casting someone different.
So this isn't him, is it?
Is it?
No.
Yeah, this is him.
But I think, you know what?
Yeah, he's just straight away when the shadow comes off and you
see his eyes.
Yeah, yeah.
It's definitely Gowron.
I thought, actually, this is probably the best performance in the
whole thing.
But I mean, what did he made of?
you know, Oh, yeah, there he is.
Oh, my God. the amount of memes there are around Garon's crazy
eyes.
Yes, yeah, yeah.
He's so good.
So wonderful.
You ever had a sip of the famous grouse?
Whiskey.
Yes.
I can't bear whiskey.
But there's a fabulous meme of Gowron going, glory to you and your
grouse.
So strange.
Yeah.
Like, what?
What?
What are we doing?
We're watching play a video, come in with an enormous machine
gun.
Yeah, like that's a like you can see that that's trying to be
funny, right?
He's trying to have a relaxing drawing, to be funny.
Yeah.
So he's trying to have a relaxing time in the holodeck, but
because the Dixon Hill program can only do Dixon Hill stories from
the shitty detective novels that are made up that it's based on, it
only, you know, it just keeps being violent in different ways and
I guess it sort of escalates, but so what?
Can I ask why war thinks that these bizarre fish aliens are so
attractive?
Because it's funny.
I think it's fucking hilarious.
I'll tell you.
Well, I think that's maybe the funniest thing in the episode.
And it reinforces my theory that wharf's always wrong.
Well, do you know what's super interesting about on Star Trek
Project and how we dip about all the series is we've just done 2
comedies back to back?
And one was quite successful.
And this is where it all goes wrong.
This is miserable, isn't it?
Just so bad.
Holy crap.
I mean, this whole secret. this is everything that's wrong with
this episode, okay?
You got Mrs. Troy being a terrible ambassador.
The appalling fishy aliens.
The terrible sex jokes.
It's a winded scene.
See, I still think they look better in source, again, is an
attempt to do that joke again and it's slightly better, but it's
still bad.
Like they can't write a funny line.
One day you'll be a big strong man, but I can't wait for you to
mature.
Why is he saying I'm not a man?
That's the thing too, that we've settled, isn't it?
That any adult male of any of the races is a man.
So Quark is a man, you know, Um, uh, like that, and I like that.
I think that's good.
You know, there's something about, I don't know. anyway.
I believe they gave Walters a Sash in series 2 as well, you know.
I was never.
No, he has.
So he wears the red uniform in series one and has a gold sash that
isn't made of metal like this one or doesn't look like it's made
of metal, but he had the sash from the very beginning.
I, you know, because I'm so used to seeing him in red in DS9.
I actually think he looks a bit bare in the red.
He does.
People complain. gray in mustard yellow, do they?
No.
With some, I've read people complain that the 2 black actors got
taken out of the red costume and put in the yellow costume for
series 2.
Was there a reason for that?
No, I don't know.
I think that they'd established that engineering.
So he becomes head of security, which was Yah's job, and so she
was wearing mustard.
And, um, you know, he's in majority's in engineering and somehow
not in this episode, is he?
He's not in this at all.
No, I think he's referenced because she's off to engineering to
you know, bore at him a little bit.
Yeah.
And who wouldn't give up?
No, he's a pretty man.
Yeah.
Um, Yeah.
Like, what, like, what's happening now?
I'm going to X's bar.
We're going to spot, but we have to take a gun because we're in
gangster land.
So someone could come in there any minute now and blow the reds
off.
Like, can't he just like conjure up a nightclub from somewhere or
something?
Like, why is he doing it?
Oh, we did ba bing, ba bang.
And we were in this period.
I mean, a fabulous heist plot going on.
Yeah, yeah. tons of energy and genuine jokes.
And this is so grimy as well.
Look at this set.
I suppose it's supposed to be noir-ish, which is why we get the
shadows of the lights.
I quite like this, actually.
And I quite like the high angle shot.
There was actually a seconds invention with the direction, you
know?
Because pretty much this is your, the definition of your and shoot
TNG episode.
Yeah, it really is.
And look how few extras we've got in the bar, like it's a great
shape. spinning fan there that we're seeing establish it.
Yeah, it really needs to be casting a shadow over people though
doesn't it?
Like, it's not very no-rish in the way it's directed at all.
I guess.
Well, it's not a bar I'd want to hang out in, if I'm honest.
It's miserable.
Oh, look, what is all this now?
Where he's trying to explain...
Yes, but now he's explaining...
Like, why?
Literally, they've got nothing to write about other than just
writing words.
But isn't this isn't this the thing where like Data was doing this
when he was cock blocking?
Like, you know, where Picard called him in to do some cock
blocking in the during the date with Mrs. Troy and he's saying
boring things and now he's Picard saying boring things to people
who aren't real.
The trouble with that is, is they realise very early on that
they...
Is he going to smoke a cigarette?
No, he does hit badly, you know?
I love gates. in the in the previous years. one where she swallows
the chewing gum?
No, the bit where the man gets killed and she don't realise the
safeties are off and she's going, ah.
That is incredibly funny.
Yeah, it works in a way that this doesn't.
No.
Well, there's no...
It's like, had they done bada, bing, bada, bang the sequel, it
probably wouldn't have had the same lustre as the 1st one, you
know.
Well, but it's not that this is a sequel.
It is explicitly that he's going in here to escape the episode
that he's in.
I know how he feels, right?
That's right.
It's only going to find love staring into your beautiful face that
I can endure this another time.
Yeah, it's a whole thing, isn't it?
Like, this is just nothing.
So what's good in series two, right?
What do you think is good?
I think, obviously, a matter of honour, measure of a man.
Q-hoo.
They're probably like 3 big ones.
Is schizoid man good?
I think it's schizoid man.
Yeah, that's that's kind of scary.
I quite like penpal, so no, you don't.
Yeah, I don't mind that.
But I think that that's one where the it is hang time.
You can see them doing things just to keep the episode on the
air.
Doesn't this season have the one with the packlets?
Yeah.
Yeah, I quite like that one.
Yeah.
Oh, no, peak performance is great.
That's the one where the fella comes on to do the computer game
with the fingers against data.
Strategy Ma.
Strategma?
Thank you very much, honestly.
I think they've played that in Kurtzman track.
They've certainly referenced it.
Every time you say this, I have no, there's no element of
surprising me, all right?
It's just like...
That fabulous thing about pitting Riker against Picard.
Do you remember they're in the 2 different ships?
And then Wesley goes over to get his school project and ends up
sabotaging the ship or something.
And it's all, it's quite fun, but it's right at the tail end. the
penultimate episode.
It's where they're starting to get their act together, you know?
But it is also just a bunch of stuff that happens.
Do you know what I mean?
Like there's a bit of jeopardy and things, but it is basically
this is the ship doing business as usual.
They're not solving a space problem or anything.
And I guess the games turn real, like someone turns up who's
really threatening them or something.
I can't remember now.
Oh, the problem. question like that.
Yeah.
I just opened up, didn't it?
It's just a car. been a practical effect.
Oh, possibly.
I just love dynamite, though. you know.
She was in the original series a couple of times, wasn't she?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And she's in, she's in the episode with the Medusin, you know, the
um, the weird thing in the box that drives you mad if you look at
it. and 0 from um prodigy is one of those.
Oh, okay.
She's also in a fabulous daytime soap, you know, and her exit was
she gets shoved down a...
No, that was...
That wasn't no.
Yeah, I remember watching that.
I actually watched all the time.
I never watched LA law.
It was big. everyone was watching it.
I knew it was a thing.
I knew that she was the sort of bitch character.
I happened to just be tuned into it for literally no reason at
all.
Just in time for her to just walk into what she thought was a
waiting lift.
Only the lift wasn't there and she plummeted to her death and it
was the most shocking thing.
It was pretty amazing.
It's so funny.
I mean, I've never seen an episode of that show, but I've seen
that clip a 100 times.
It was huge. was huge back then.
Yeah, I think there's a, I think there's a problem in general with
how they're portraying women as well in Star Trek at this point.
And I think it's something they managed to turn around in DS9.
Yeah. where they just let them be feminine.
But I think both Dax and Kira are quite masculine as well.
They're just women.
Whereas here, like, yeah, no, Troy is, well, what is Troy?
I mean, well, no, so, yeah.
So the 2 women, the 2 women in the cast are the doctor and the
counsellor.
So they have professional jobs, but their job is basically looking
after people in various ways.
And so it's a traditional.
She's like crusty, isn't she?
She's a fusty, crusty old woman.
Yeah, yeah.
You've got Mrs. Troy in here who's just a massive hornball.
You know. there's no substance to any of them No, no.
And he's Madeline.
There's more substance to weather.
I was saying, she's not real at all.
Oh, we're supposed to think this is the...
Oh, that's the joke, is it?
We've gone through this whole rigmarole.
The big villain of the piece is going to turn up.
And then it's date, yeah.
Well, that's just fucking hilarious, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah.
Although he's doing a little bit of acting there.
A little bit of Brent acting for a moment.
Patrick Stewart does look quite hot in that hut, you know.
Yeah, no, he looks good here, I think.
That's a great outfit, but I mean, what's happening?
Well, now it's time for him to go.
This doesn't go anywhere.
Oh, and is this is where she turns up?
And basically says to Riker, well, I'm so sorry, but I'm not going
to marry you now because this man behind the bar is more
attractive than you.
And then they had this bizarre conversation where they're sitting
on like a side table.
Yeah.
And it's like, what do you 2 people possibly have in common?
He's not even that pretty.
No, he's all right.
He's all right.
He's got a moustache.
Oh, and he doesn't have a last name, and the reason he doesn't
have a last name is he's never given one in the Dixon Hill novels
and they are kind enough not to spell that out. which I think is
very restrained because they could have got a good 30 seconds out
of that, you know, if they... eaten a milk tray, chocolate.
Yeah.
No way.
Because Mrs. Troy looks very like a milk tray box right now.
Yeah, yeah.
It does look like a confection in that dress.
It's almost the Cadbury colour too, isn't it?
It's a little bit redder than the Canbury purple. supposed to know
that Mrs. Troy and the computer voice are the same actress?
Is this a joke?
An in joke here?
I think it might be.
She calls she calls the computer dear, doesn't she?
Like, she calls computer deer.
And she, again, she's a silly old woman who can't work
technology.
We're all in the 24th century.
I mean, the holodeck is introduced and no one has seen one before
remembering a encounter at FarPoint. completely new and it has to
be explained to Riker because we need it explained to us.
And so she doesn't know about it.
So it just about passes.
But again, they're just making her look stupid.
Like they just like, this is agonising because you see Roy Picard
sort of turns away like, oh shit, I've been cool.
Oh, I'll just turn around, she might not see me.
The card looks like a douche as well.
Yeah, yeah.
No one is coming out of this well, are they?
No, the only person who is, I think, is Jonathan Frakes, who has a
wry smile on his face the whole time.
Yeah.
And is she interested in him because he's a hologram and she can't
sense anything?
That is what she says.
It's like, yeah, the most fascinating man I've ever met. you know
I can't read you.
Yeah, yeah.
Yes.
But she is in an entirely new environment.
Like she must realise this is artificial.
Yeah.
Yeah, I just don't know what's happening.
I just, like, what are they doing?
you have to make for this to make to be credible.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, oh, I, you know, in a minute when we go to the transporter
room and she unveils the evil, the evil plot of the fish people.
But who have only said one thing.
Haven't they just said food, like they've said food and they've
they've shovelled food into their mouths. and that's it.
That's all they've done.
And so like what is that?
Like she saves the day, because they were going to blow up the
conference.
Remember when the twist in second skin here, and that whole
episode had been crafted and full of misdirection.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, they kind of, this is how our twist doesn't work.
Yeah, we need to do something with the delegates.
They're just here to because they're weird ass aliens and that's
really the only role they play is to be weird looking aliens so
that people can be weirdly racist towards them except Worf, who
isn't racist.
Apparently.
And then, like what?
Then they do the weird eating thing.
Like, they're not fun to look at.
They're not impressive.
Look at that.
Yeah, look at this.
This, this, this is embarrassing.
What the hell?
They just woke up.
Yeah, yeah, they want breakfast.
We started recording. while Ron was on the stairs doing
impressions of them, jiggling about.
Oh, God.
Yeah, you know, that funny episode that we've written, you know
the one where Mrs. Troy is trying to fuck everyone.
And Picard's trying to hide away.
What it needs is a B plot about fish.
Disgusting. guzzling fish down their throats. like what the fuck?
I do wonder if the entire show was just woefully misconceived at
this point.
Yeah, no, it's so shit.
But it just goes to show, you know, just how important actual
writers are because the writers go on strike and the television
that gets put out is absolutely unwatchable.
This is a good argument here for why Michael Pillow was absolutely
essential to the Star Trek franchise in the 90s.
They should all have been paid more.
Like, do you remember the Mrs. Troy episode, the next Mrs. Troy
episode, Menage Troy.
And it ain't great. better than this.
Oh, got it.
Because it's stored at this.
Okay. and there's a there is a proper character for it about
Deanna and her mother.
And they're on that planet.
I think, is it Risa?
It's beautiful occasion.
And there's a real relaxed chemistry between the 2 actresses and
there's some character work going on.
Yeah, yeah.
And there's sort of jeopardy and stuff and like it resolves itself
in a stupid way that is nowhere near as funny as it thinks it is.
And in fact, I think Stuart's a little bit embarrassing in that
final scene.
But because it's a story, then, you know, it's absolutely streets
ahead of this, I literally could not believe, you know, we
selected this episode, yeah.
And then my honour goes, well, I'm going to watch this one with
you.
This is the one I'm choosing to watch with you.
You said he had a one word summary, a one word review of the
episode.
Yeah, he looked at me very thoughtfully and he just said
pointless.
Yeah, well, that's it.
No, that's exactly the point.
That's it.
It's pointless.
More sadly, you know, did we go through all of this for?
What did we go through this for?
Did we learn?
And he goes, there wasn't any story to it.
That's exactly the problem.
There's plot.
There's incident.
Things happen, but there's no story, and none of the things that
happen are particularly entertaining.
Like he's skulking in a bar to escape her.
She's embarrassing herself in front of everyone.
The fish people are like, what?
You know, like what even are they?
It's dreadful.
Do you remember what we did looking for Pamok in all the wrong
places?
That was a sex comedy which was just hanging about, wasn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
But again, like there were plots, weren't there?
And there were like 3 arcs or something going on and they resolved
themselves.
They did things, the scenes contributed to an arc.
They all resolved themselves in the infirmary when everyone had
been fucking.
Thank God, it's over, Nathan.
Oh, that was really miserable.
So, you know, things like this, things like the royale, you know
like, like this season is just full of this sort of shit.
And it fails in a much worse way, I think, than series one.
There's, I would sooner watch, God help me, code of, maybe not
code of honour.
I would soon watch Angel One or Lonely Among Us or, you know
like...
Do you remember Angel One?
I mean, Rocker's wearing that tin foil and all his airy chests
out.
Yeah, that was a formative moment actually for me.
That's where I questioned him as an ambassador, being straight
down star planet, and so I was fucking the leader immediately.
Yeah, yeah.
There's a lot of sex going on, you know.
Honestly, isn't there?
Yeah, TNG.
Well, that's all right.
I don't check.
I quite like sex, but I don't like...
It's funny how unremarkable it is later.
You know, when Captain Locker is having sex with that fantastic
admiral in series one of, um, you know, she's so great and uh, like
they have a proper relationship.
No, even better when they go to the alternative universe, and I'm
perfectly convinced that it's your show is just having sex with
everybody.
Yeah, that Lord Ealing.
I mean look at her.
Honestly.
You would, wouldn't you?
You do as you're told.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, no, yeah, that's Michelle.
Yeah, no, that was dreadful.
And I think that that's probably the worst that we've ever seen.
And it, you know, Shades of Grey is clearly what, the worst piece
of television the franchise is ever produced.
But this has to be close, I think.
I agree.
I think this is very, very boring.
And do you know what, for once?
I often think when we watch episodes that are not great.
You can like sit back and go, okay, with some tweaks, and with a
bit of skill, I'm not sure how you could make this work at all.
No.
No, you would have to introduce a story at some point.
It would have to be a...
You'd think that was a given, wouldn't you?
Yeah, you would.
You would think that just having people do things for 45 minutes
and then running the closing credits.
That's not your job finished, you know, like that's not what
you're here to do.
And even sub rows are, you know, which has massive lapses of taste
and all sorts of weird shit going on.
That was so much more enjoyable to watch, even though it is kind
of a fiasco, um, because there's fun, interesting things
happening.
Paracic fiasco.
It's amazing. my respect for sub-rosa after watching this.
Well, I've got some good news for you.
What's that?
I think it's going to be a long time before we see anything as
dreary as that again.
Yeah, yeah, it'll be, uh, it'll be shades of gray next week.
Spirit folk.
All right, it's a very special time of the episode, and it's a
very special time of the year because we are choosing what we're
going to watch this Christmas.
It's a very Star Trek Christmas this year, and Joe, tell us what
sort of thing we're choosing.
The only part of the franchise that we've not touched upon at all
which is the fabulous run of Star Trek movies.
Yeah.
Yep.
This is going to be really something. been waiting for this.
I been waiting for Christmas to come around so we can finally do a
movie.
And, you know, like even the bad ones.
Like, I'm prepared for it to be one of the bad ones and
statistically, we've got a fairly good chance of landing a bad one
because they're quite a few bad ones.
But, you know, I have such fond memories of these.
I don't think, I think maybe the 1st one that I ever saw in the
cinema was 6 and that would have come out like on Boxing Day and
like I just, that's a high bar, you know, 6.
Yes, it's really... these movies to all be fantastic.
That's right.
But there are some really great ones in there.
And even some of the ones that are less highly regarded have
positive qualities.
And we're choosing from the 3 kind of phases, aren't we?
So the original series movies, you know, one to six, the next
generation ones, which are mostly terrible.
And then the 3 JJ Abrams, you know, the new ones.
And I think all of them have, you know, good things to say about
them and all of them are fun to different sort of degrees.
Even something as miserable as Star Trek Nemesis has got that
incredible cinematic sequence at the end where the 2 ships
collide.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I am thrilled that it's me that gets to press the button
on the 1st movie.
Okay.
All right. press it.
Oh my god.
It's Star Trek 5.
No, it's not.
It's into Darkness.
No.
It's insurrection. right back to the beginning.
Oh, it's Star Trek the motionless picture. motionless.
Yeah.
There is motion.
It's just very slow.
I actually haven't seen the new the new director's cut, the new
one that they did for the anniversary.
We could maybe watch that.
No, you want to press the button again.
Oh, I already have, I'm afraid.
Okay.
Oh, so sorry.
No, no, like, I only watched a motion picture for the 1st time
this year is the only Starship movie I hadn't seen.
I went to my explicit orders because I had a secret plan for you
to watch it for the 1st time while we were recording. deviant
why.
Our friend was desperate.
He was lonely.
He wanted to watch a Star Trek movie.
And I did think it was visually.
It was pretty stunning.
Narratively, it was a bit turgid, but...
Yeah, so, you know, it's like 2 original Star Trek episodes sort
of roll together.
We've kind of got, you know, the changeling and we've got, I can't
remember what else, but, you know, it's very period as well and it
is trying to do 2001, isn't it?
Which is, you know, a few years earlier.
And so it is slow and stately and it is massively proud of the new
special effects that they have available and stuff like that.
I you know, I think there's a lot going for it.
Absolutely, we'll get to the motion picture, but I think we should
start with something... a bit...
Well, yeah, a bit pacier and Okay, so what have you rolled?
A bit less cerebral.
Well, and I kind of want to do this as well, because I think it is
a spectacular failure.
Um, It is both spectacular and a failure.
Is it five?
It's not.
It's generations.
Oh God, it's terrible, isn't it?
visually. visually.
It's David Carson who did emissary.
I don't know what else he did now.
He did a couple of other.
Did he do Encounter at FarQ?
No, no, no, no, no.
But it's, you know, Next Generation is finally lit or lit well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And obviously it's got Shatner in there as well.
And some other characters and I don't know.
I think that's quite an interesting place to start.
It's a terrible movie, but...
Yeah, well, that'd be good because, you know, we've, we've been
watching original Trek and 90s Trek and and Kurtzman Trek and this
one at least bridges the gap between 2 of them.
And it is, it's not the 1st Star Trek film to be born into a world
where Star Trek the Next Generation exists because I think 5 and 6
I think 5 coincides with series 2, am I right?
And yeah, there's 2 of Next Generation.
But it is, you know, post Star Trek, the Next Generation Star
Trek.
I can see why it'd be interesting to do.
Also as well.
You know, it is a meeting of 2 greats from 90s Trek, who never
worked together beyond the movies, aside from a couple of episodes
of Voyager, and that is Ronald D. Moore, from DS9 and TNG, and
Brannan Bragger, from Voyager and Enterprise.
And it's worth talking about those 2 working together because they
do a couple of movies and then they have a spectacular fallout.
Right.
And I just think the 2 of them are working in different directions
and that's what's wrong with generations.
I think what's wrong with generations is I don't give a shit about
the people of Veridian 3 in the film.
Gives me no reason to give a shit about them.
Agonising secrets where Picard breaks down over his family who
have been killed off screen.
So bad.
But it does have the amazing sequence where the enterprise crashes
with Troy at the helm.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I think it's, yeah, yeah.
As many, many jokes about the women drivers, you know?
That's a bit unfortunate. at least there's no jokes about fur
boobs.
No, they will come.
All right, that's going to be great.
Merry Christmas, everyone.
It's Star Trek generations.
Oh, let's do it.
You've been listening to entitled Star Trek Project.
Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley.
We're online at untitledstar trekproject.com where you can find
links to our Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube channel.
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Sisrin, and the themes composed by
Cameron Lamb.
This episode was recorded on the 5th of December 2022 and released
on the 16th of December.
We will see you next time for our 1st Star Trek movie, Star Trek
generations.
Okay.
Briiant.
What a choice.
That's awesome.
Wow.
I mean, it is terrible.
It's quite fun.
Yeah, it is kind of terrible.
I remember my father watched it and he said, and then suddenly
they're on a boat and I don't know why and what's going on, you
know, like...
Yeah.
I've got a feeling.
I think that's Mark's favourite, you know.
Of all the Star Trek movies.
Wow.
Then, you know, he absolutely, his favourite doctor was the annual
evasion, like, you know.
Yeah, fair enough.
I like, what do I like?
I like Star Trek.
Beyond.
I like Such a Beyond. very like an original series.
Yeah, episode.
It gives everyone time to do something.
Yeah, just split.
No.
The Anton Elchin died and kind of sound the whole thing.
They keep saying they're good, didn't they?
Yeah, but I don't think they will.
I mean, I don't think Star Trek is actually a movie franchise
anyway.
I think it's a...
I think the TNG movies prove that.
Yeah, yeah.
But it's got to be...
Set pisses were bigger.
But it was insurrection is still just a 2 part next generation
story.
Yeah, yeah. like gambit or something.
I mean, that's half the problem is they bring in the TV writers to
write those movies.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.
In fact, there's loads to talk about with generations, isn't it?
Absolutely.
Passing the torch on, you know, the little cameos, the ones that
didn't make it.
Yep, yeah.
I think Wesley was more, wasn't he?
Ah, was he?
Yeah, I think so.
I bet the memory Apple page is enormous.
Yeah.
Do you remember the, you might not have seen it in lower decks.
Oh, yeah, you have.
You know, um, crisis point, the, the movie that Mariner makes in
the holiday.
Yeah, there's that long sequence where they're in the shuttle
going around and around the Cerritos, which is, you know, just
goes on forever and the music comes in and it's just...
I wonder what they're referencing, man.
Yeah, the motion picture.
It's so cool.
Jesus.
I can't believe I get like Malcolm McDowell is a brilliant actor.
And he's so lost in that role.
He don't know what he's doing.
He's on that mountain with that rocket.
The plastic rocket.
Oh, he's related, isn't he?
Acidic Elpha deal. he?
Yeah, city girl for deal.
I think he is his nephew.
Seriously.
Yeah, they have Christmas together. makes some references about it
in interviews and things.
Holy shit.
That's amazing.