WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-01 at 21:23:44

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Hey, Joe. Hi.

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So, we are back on discovery this week, and we are watching an

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episode that is just 2 before a recent discovery that we did.

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So this is series four, episode five, I think.

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Yes.

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We don't do this very often do we?

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We tend to, we're going to go in the same season.

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We, we, we sort of space them out, but I think, and it is going to

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come to a point where we are, you know, doing stuff back to back.

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Yeah.

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So this is called the examples, which is a very straightforward

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kind of Star Trek title.

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And it has some elements that lead up to the big kind of mid

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season cliffhanger in 2 weeks time.

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And while it has a kind of A-plot that gives it its title.

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It's about these people who have been imprisoned for political

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reasons on an asteroid who the crew has to save.

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There's a lot more time, I think, spent on the B plot and the C

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plot and all of the other arc plots that are keeping things going

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along.

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They spell very series 6 of DS9 to me, as in like the, what's it

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called?

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the DMZ?

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Is that what the big space nominated?

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DMA?

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The DMA.

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The thing that's eating up planets and causing a lot of

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destruction in the Alf quadrant.

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Is it called the Al Quadrant?

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Yeah, it is, I think.

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And I think we, you know, you have to help me with these Kurtzman

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names.

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But it felt because this, it's not like a massive part of that

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story.

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It's sort of a peripheral pile because we're going off to this

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planet, but it's just showing how other things are affected by as

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you and Dominion more did that and you'd have episodes like Honour

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Amongst Fees, which is like the Dominion supplying weapons to

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criminal organisations and things like that.

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So all these sort of offshoots of the main plot.

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And I quite like that because it adds a lot of colour and a bit of

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substance and you get to tell sort of standard Star Trek style

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episodes within the arc.

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I really so I really, really like that.

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Um, I've got 2 things I need to say to you.

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Number one is I've got to take you to task, young man, because you

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promised me a moral dilemma in this episode and there weren't nary

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one to be found.

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So I guess what I meant was that it was a society that had been

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set up deliberately to make a political point.

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You know how Star Trek will set up a society, like, I think the

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episode that I came up with last time was critical care, where you

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are dealing with some kind of political problem.

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America is a country that imprisons a massively larger proportion

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of its population than nearly any other comparable nation.

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And this is a place where, this is a place where people are

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imprisoned in order to make a point.

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So whatever small crime you commit, you're imprisoned.

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And that sounds like a sort of cod, crappy, pretend Star Trek

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premise, but it is in fact largely what we get in America anyway

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now.

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What I was expecting was that these people had done things that

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were so heinous, should we save them?

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Oh, that's what I was expecting.

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And, you know, we've done this sort of prison drama before.

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There is an episode of Voyager called repentance in series 7 where

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they have to turn the hold into a prison for like serious, you

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know, murderers and things like that, um, who need it gets close

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to and it's like, you know, they've done wrong, but should they be

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treated this way?

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And it sort of, I thought that's what this was going to be about.

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Whereas how it plays out is these people are actually quite nice

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people that are done inoffensive offences.

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And with one person there who had committed it, a terrible point

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which I thought was quite interesting.

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But the other thing I wanted to say was, I think I'm turning a

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corner with Star Trek Discovery, 4 seasons in, it's taken a while

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and that's the longest, I think, it's taken like any shot.

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But there was a confidence to this, even though this is a kind of

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a substandard plot.

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There was some fantastic character work in this.

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And I said exactly that about the episode in 2 episodes of time

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that the character work and I think it was even better there.

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But there were scenes throughout.

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There's a whole subplot with Colba, which I think is

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extraordinarily good.

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I was really, in fact, so good.

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I went back and watched certain scenes again afterwards because

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they were so well winning and so well played.

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I feel like it's kind of come together at this point.

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And the characters and the actors, it's sort of fused and they

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know what they're doing.

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They know how to play it.

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They know how to write it as well.

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And I always say about DS9 is it got to a point where the

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characters were so well defined.

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Stories were practically self-petuating.

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And that's what's happening here is, is they can just have, they

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they've got a big idea with this DMA and then just opportunity to

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present themselves with these very rounded characters.

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And that's what's going on.

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Yeah, I think, you know, the last episode that we watched was from

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season one, and that was vaulting ambition, and that had an arc

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plot, and it was the weakest, I thought, of the Mirror Universe

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episodes, and it was not, of all of them.

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There's a few that are worse in DS 9's run.

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Oh yeah, no, no, I just meant, I just meant it, that mirror

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universe arc in series one of Discovery.

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And the reason was that it just sort of inched along everyone's

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plot, but it didn't have an overarching idea.

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And I think I detected that they were trying to create an

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overarching idea by sort of topping and tailing it with scenes

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about who Lawker was, but there was nothing coherent about it.

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Whereas here I think, and I think in series 4 generally of

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discovery.

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What they do is they tell an arc plot.

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So you have a big story with a big scale, like the movies, but

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each week, something happens that also has a satisfying beginning

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middle, and end.

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Every episode is unique. like, yeah, you're right.

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That was a chapter, that Myriad Universe episode, was a chapter in

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a book, whereas this is an individual story.

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You always remember this one as the one where they go down to the

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prison planet and rescue the people, you know.

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And I prefer that approach.

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I do too.

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I think Star Trek, the episodes to have sort of an individual

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identity. with lots of good carrousel going through.

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And it was like distinct.

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There was a distinct A, B, and C plot, which is another thing that

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DS9 would do from time to time.

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Yeah, this was really good, I thought.

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For something that actually is a bit throwaway.

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It had a lot of substance to it.

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The other thing that I thought was interesting was that the A-plot

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actually feeds into the arc.

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So the decision that Michael makes to allow Felix to stay behind

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and die creates the rift between her and Bull.

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Okay, which is what we explored in the other episode.

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That's right.

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Well, it's not a rift.

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It's our yawning chasm by that point.

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Yeah, that's right.

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And also we get the 1st team that Zora has emotions and that's

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going to be central to the episode in 2 weeks time.

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But just like, you know, I'm going to beat this point too much, but

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the fact that, you know, I couldn't bear many of these characters

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in series one.

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I really didn't like Michael Burnham very much.

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I did not like Stamets very much.

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I didn't even know who Colba was.

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I don't think they really gave him much of X-Men.

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At this point, I understand who these people are. really like

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being around them.

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And so if you add a really interesting art plot to these

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characters.

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It's TV gold.

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Yeah, should we watch it?

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Yeah, let's.

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I mean, this is this is my favourite series of Discovery, and it

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might be my favourite series of New Trek, even though I think

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Strange 2 World series one was pretty great.

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I've watched 2 from this season.

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Obviously the 2 we've covered.

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I really want to watch all of it now because I've got a feeling

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the standard is pretty high and I don't think I've seen the best

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either.

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No, no, I don't think you have.

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I think the 2nd half of it is magnificently well done I think.

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And it's proper science fiction in places, which is kind of rare

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for Star Trek.

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Right, shall we?

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I do learn eventually, you know, I've been slacking this show off

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for ages, but eventually I'll get there.

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So great.

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All right.

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I'm going to count us in there.

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Five, four, three, two, one. and we're off into a CBS Studios

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production.

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Yeah.

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Wait till you see the new Star Trek thing that they have.

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Look at this.

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Holy crap.

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So this is them, this is them coming back.

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This is Tilly leaving. and so that must have been last episode I

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think.

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Yeah.

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So Tilly leaves to go and teach at the academy.

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And you'd think, you know, a point where Giorgio and Tilly are

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both out of the show now that it would suffer a bit.

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But actually, you know what you're left with?

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I was about to say something very sexist.

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Well, you're left with some very sensitive men who have feminine

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qualities, like cobra and Stamets and Saru.

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They're a bit more sensitive than, you know, Riker and Chikotayan

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and Archer.

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So look at this.

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This is the USS Janeway heading towards the Dark Matter anomaly

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which looks like an eye.

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Look at that.

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It looks like an eye.

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It's beautifully done.

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And just the fact the camera's moving slightly.

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It's not the static locked off shots.

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So this is a huge moment in the arc where we discover that it is

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made by someone.

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It's artificial.

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And that's us watching Stamets realise that as well.

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And so we go straight into that.

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And I love that map that he's standing behind.

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You love these hologrammatical displays, don't you?

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They're all around them.

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Yeah.

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And why not?

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We can do...

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He's generally the best.

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I tell you what.

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She's just studied enough.

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She's such a grumpy asshole though, isn't she?

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Yeah, Denobula was there in the map just now.

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Well, that's it.

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That's 2 references we've had in less than a minute.

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There is an incredible Voyager reference, which I'm going to see

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if you can spot it.

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What in this?

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Yep.

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No.

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Absolutely.

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Janeway.

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That one.

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No, nope, one that's coming.

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Do you know what?

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Look at this.

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People standing around in rooms pontificating.

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Oh, you know, I'm there for this.

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But look, the camera's moving.

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The camera is moving very slightly.

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It has calmed down a bit because back when Frakes was in charge.

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You had that drone zacking about the room, you know.

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Yeah, let's have more frekes.

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For God's sake.

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Calm down, Jonathan, honestly. an old man now.

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And so this is really kind of an interesting twist, isn't it?

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Like when it's just a big swirly thing that destroys planets and

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we don't know why.

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It's mad.

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Now that I'm sorry, if it's created, then it's there for a

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purpose.

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So I think that we are going to find out.

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I can't remember where it is.

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So where are we?

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Are we back on, we're back in Starfleet.

253
00:11:54.539 --> 00:11:57.659
Oh, with Admiral Vance, handsome Advance. honestly.

254
00:11:57.659 --> 00:11:58.740
Yeah, yeah.

255
00:11:59.399 --> 00:12:03.240
I don't know, you know, I think Cronenberg might be the hottest

256
00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:06.059
man on this now because he's so smart.

257
00:12:06.539 --> 00:12:07.320
He's so clear.

258
00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:11.399
You know, I think Mark is set, smart, sexy, and he has the best

259
00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:12.419
scene in this whole episode.

260
00:12:12.480 --> 00:12:14.399
Man, he's good.

261
00:12:14.460 --> 00:12:17.759
It's so crazy to think that David Cronenberg is a semi-regular on

262
00:12:17.759 --> 00:12:18.480
Star Trek.

263
00:12:18.539 --> 00:12:19.740
It's just mental.

264
00:12:19.799 --> 00:12:24.360
But I think as well, I think this setup of the Federation in the

265
00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:28.980
future is really established itself now as well. that and that was

266
00:12:28.980 --> 00:12:32.220
the interesting part of the 1st half of series 3 as they were sort

267
00:12:32.220 --> 00:12:34.799
of exploring this and we're going off to worlds that we know that

268
00:12:34.799 --> 00:12:36.600
are all a bit different because we're in the future.

269
00:12:36.659 --> 00:12:42.000
Whereas now I feel like it's like um, it's a condensed version of

270
00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:45.419
TNG creating the map and then DS9 exploring it.

271
00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:46.980
Well, they created the map in series 3.

272
00:12:47.220 --> 00:12:49.799
Now we're exploring it in series four.

273
00:12:49.980 --> 00:12:53.340
And I actually kind of like the fact that we have a base.

274
00:12:53.399 --> 00:12:56.700
I mean, compare this guy to Bill Watts's face in...

275
00:12:56.700 --> 00:12:58.320
Don't you go on...

276
00:13:00.779 --> 00:13:03.179
Look how much better he is.

277
00:13:03.299 --> 00:13:03.840
Okay.

278
00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:05.279
So, wasn't he?

279
00:13:05.340 --> 00:13:09.539
missed, you just missed the, you just missed the Voyager

280
00:13:09.539 --> 00:13:10.080
reference.

281
00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:14.460
So we're theorising about who's created the DMA, and we rule out

282
00:13:14.460 --> 00:13:20.759
the Metrons, the Naseen, the, and we rule out the queue continuum

283
00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:24.539
and the Iconians and the Naseen.

284
00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:27.179
The race that the caretaker is from.

285
00:13:27.539 --> 00:13:29.700
I did not know that.

286
00:13:29.759 --> 00:13:30.960
Yeah, yeah.

287
00:13:31.019 --> 00:13:32.399
There you go.

288
00:13:32.460 --> 00:13:33.419
So that's a deep dive.

289
00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:34.679
That's a pretty impressive.

290
00:13:34.740 --> 00:13:36.419
Iconians, you know, I love a bit of them.

291
00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:37.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

292
00:13:37.500 --> 00:13:37.980
Yeah.

293
00:13:37.980 --> 00:13:38.340
Okay.

294
00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:40.620
So they're mentioning they're basically mentioning the big

295
00:13:40.620 --> 00:13:43.019
powerful races that could have constructed something this

296
00:13:43.019 --> 00:13:43.500
terrifying.

297
00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:48.179
And do you think the queue have died, like they've disappeared 300

298
00:13:48.179 --> 00:13:51.179
years ago, and oh, you haven't seen all of the card series too?

299
00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:52.320
They're going to happen back.

300
00:13:52.379 --> 00:13:55.139
I promise you, Discovery's out, there'll be a queue episode.

301
00:13:55.200 --> 00:13:56.639
Maybe.

302
00:13:56.700 --> 00:13:58.139
Oh, okay, why?

303
00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:00.779
Is there a twist in Picard that says that they're gone there?

304
00:14:00.840 --> 00:14:01.919
He might be dead.

305
00:14:01.980 --> 00:14:02.759
Okay.

306
00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:05.159
But you know what?

307
00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:08.399
I've got to say, I said this in the other series 4 episode that we

308
00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:08.700
did.

309
00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:12.539
This is pure Star Trek now.

310
00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:13.980
Discovery is gone.

311
00:14:14.039 --> 00:14:16.559
They are they are making Star Trek now.

312
00:14:16.620 --> 00:14:19.740
Yeah, I think the intention was always that they would make Star

313
00:14:19.740 --> 00:14:23.100
Trek, which is why they said it in the era of original Star Trek.

314
00:14:23.159 --> 00:14:25.080
Well, they were making series one then.

315
00:14:25.139 --> 00:14:25.799
Honestly.

316
00:14:25.860 --> 00:14:29.159
Yeah, well, I think that they were making Star Trek eventually

317
00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:33.840
after a few full stars. and their apology tour.

318
00:14:33.899 --> 00:14:34.860
This is so great.

319
00:14:34.919 --> 00:14:36.059
Look at his set.

320
00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:37.440
Books ship is so beautiful.

321
00:14:37.500 --> 00:14:40.139
Why are you looking at the say it when he is in it?

322
00:14:40.200 --> 00:14:42.720
He is a handsome man isn't he?

323
00:14:42.779 --> 00:14:43.620
Yeah.

324
00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:45.659
Does he get his hair off much?

325
00:14:46.019 --> 00:14:47.519
No.

326
00:14:47.580 --> 00:14:51.419
He does have excellent taste in interior decorating though, I

327
00:14:51.419 --> 00:14:51.659
think.

328
00:14:52.500 --> 00:14:54.899
So we're going to work together.

329
00:14:54.960 --> 00:14:58.799
There's a beautiful episode before this, which is about his grief

330
00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:01.200
at losing his entire planet at this point.

331
00:15:01.259 --> 00:15:05.220
So we see Quaishon destroyed by the DMA earlier on.

332
00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:10.679
I love the, I also love the transporter, just that, and they're

333
00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:10.799
there.

334
00:15:10.860 --> 00:15:12.960
You know, had the transporter effect.

335
00:15:12.960 --> 00:15:14.879
Funny looking alien news on the column.

336
00:15:14.940 --> 00:15:16.679
Oh, yeah.

337
00:15:16.740 --> 00:15:18.480
Yeah, that's really funny.

338
00:15:19.259 --> 00:15:20.580
And what about Lieutenant Christopher?

339
00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:21.840
Pretty Lieutenant Christopher.

340
00:15:21.899 --> 00:15:22.740
Does he do much?

341
00:15:23.220 --> 00:15:25.139
Oh, okay, he's new now, is he?

342
00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:25.379
Okay.

343
00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:29.340
Well, he's new, and he and Bryce kind of alternate in that in that

344
00:15:29.340 --> 00:15:29.580
role.

345
00:15:29.639 --> 00:15:32.100
No, it doesn't take as long as they did to give Detmer a bit of

346
00:15:32.100 --> 00:15:32.340
character.

347
00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:35.159
Yeah, I think probably it will.

348
00:15:35.220 --> 00:15:39.480
So and again, this is another very, very weird location.

349
00:15:39.539 --> 00:15:40.919
See that shot?

350
00:15:40.980 --> 00:15:42.600
That's like nothing that we've ever seen before.

351
00:15:42.659 --> 00:15:46.980
So it seems to be a group of asteroids joined together with like

352
00:15:46.980 --> 00:15:53.220
big wires or something, and then, and then some kind of, um, you

353
00:15:53.220 --> 00:15:56.879
know, force field keeping the, the thing together, and it's just a

354
00:15:56.879 --> 00:15:59.100
sort of really strange location.

355
00:15:59.159 --> 00:16:00.899
And that's what I want it to do.

356
00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:04.139
I want to be not quite sure what it is I'm seeing here are these

357
00:16:04.139 --> 00:16:04.679
beautiful credits.

358
00:16:04.740 --> 00:16:05.399
We've done it.

359
00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:06.960
We done enough 90s trip lately.

360
00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:10.440
Oh, you know, the visual's not looking strange and fascinating and

361
00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:10.799
wonderful.

362
00:16:10.860 --> 00:16:12.539
So here we are.

363
00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:16.200
I do want to talk about, see how, wait a second, see how discovery

364
00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:17.279
in the opening titles?

365
00:16:17.340 --> 00:16:22.320
The Nacelles don't join onto the ship, because they're detachable

366
00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:23.340
in the future.

367
00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:28.320
Well, they've made lots of little changes from the last time we

368
00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:29.820
saw the credits in series one.

369
00:16:29.879 --> 00:16:30.480
Yeah, yeah.

370
00:16:30.539 --> 00:16:32.340
I do love this animation though.

371
00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:34.620
And I do love the music too.

372
00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:38.039
I wasn't very sure about this title sequence when it 1st came on

373
00:16:38.580 --> 00:16:40.740
might be my favourite.

374
00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:42.179
Hmm.

375
00:16:42.179 --> 00:16:43.980
I do like the...

376
00:16:43.980 --> 00:16:45.000
I like the Strange New World.

377
00:16:45.059 --> 00:16:46.320
Picard one as well.

378
00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:50.820
They do they do a fine pile sequence in...

379
00:16:50.879 --> 00:16:52.740
Actually, I watched some more prodigy the other day.

380
00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:55.080
He has great titles.

381
00:16:55.139 --> 00:16:56.279
Yeah, yeah.

382
00:16:56.340 --> 00:16:57.539
Is that the Gormagander?

383
00:16:57.659 --> 00:17:00.720
I don't know, but it looks like it's trying to eat discovery, which

384
00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:01.799
is rather...

385
00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:05.880
Like the one that's trying to eat the Cerritos.

386
00:17:06.180 --> 00:17:09.599
I know, I always say it, but the way you look for the camera a bit

387
00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:10.440
apologetically.

388
00:17:10.500 --> 00:17:11.160
It was wonderful.

389
00:17:11.220 --> 00:17:12.660
It makes me laugh.

390
00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:14.039
Every time I see it.

391
00:17:14.099 --> 00:17:15.839
Sorry, very quickly.

392
00:17:15.900 --> 00:17:16.980
Look, they're not connected.

393
00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:21.839
I do want to talk about the men in this because I really feel like

394
00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:22.799
we've turned a corner.

395
00:17:22.859 --> 00:17:25.859
There was a time, if you go back sort of 20 years, where all men

396
00:17:25.859 --> 00:17:28.859
in science fiction were basically portrayed a bit butch and

397
00:17:28.859 --> 00:17:32.759
masculine and there to drive the action or have a witty quip.

398
00:17:32.819 --> 00:17:39.240
And even like booking this, a character who looks like book, and I

399
00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:43.319
20 years ago, would have played a very different role, what he's

400
00:17:43.319 --> 00:17:43.799
doing here.

401
00:17:43.859 --> 00:17:45.539
And I really like that.

402
00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:50.279
I really like the men are allowed to be thoughtful and sensitive

403
00:17:50.279 --> 00:17:51.480
and considered.

404
00:17:51.539 --> 00:17:53.460
Yeah, I mean, he's an empath.

405
00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:56.519
He can read the feelings of animals, but he's like literally an

406
00:17:56.519 --> 00:17:56.940
empath.

407
00:17:57.000 --> 00:17:58.319
You know what I'm saying.

408
00:17:58.380 --> 00:17:59.519
You wouldn't have this.

409
00:17:59.579 --> 00:18:01.200
You wouldn't have had this mid 90s.

410
00:18:01.259 --> 00:18:02.759
Well, I don't know, actually.

411
00:18:02.819 --> 00:18:03.359
Cisco.

412
00:18:03.420 --> 00:18:04.079
Maybe I'm wrong.

413
00:18:04.140 --> 00:18:08.460
Yeah, Cisco, I think, well, Cisco can be intimidating.

414
00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:09.539
Oh, boy, can he?

415
00:18:09.539 --> 00:18:14.339
But also, yeah, yeah.

416
00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:22.559
Um Um, I, oh, no, I can't remember where I, where it's going.

417
00:18:22.619 --> 00:18:23.519
I lost it.

418
00:18:23.579 --> 00:18:24.599
Do you know what?

419
00:18:24.660 --> 00:18:25.980
No, he's not on it yet.

420
00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:28.799
You see, that rising scientist that comes on.

421
00:18:28.859 --> 00:18:29.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

422
00:18:29.940 --> 00:18:34.740
There's a plot on DS9 where do you remember where Bashir's rival

423
00:18:34.740 --> 00:18:39.119
at school is coming on the station and he's really intimidated

424
00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:42.000
about meeting her and I was getting vibes of that in this when

425
00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:45.180
Stammets is like, look, this fella, he won't even talk to me.

426
00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:48.240
Like, you know, I always have to go for his secretary and then he

427
00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:48.660
comes on.

428
00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:50.400
I'm thinking I kept thinking they're going to go down the same

429
00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:51.839
route as that DS9 episode.

430
00:18:51.900 --> 00:18:54.660
He's going to be really nice and they're going to have a great

431
00:18:54.660 --> 00:18:58.200
relationship and he comes on and he's the biggest fucking priest.

432
00:18:58.259 --> 00:19:00.059
Yeah, it's wonderful, isn't it?

433
00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:06.599
So they mentioned Aurelio, who was a Cyrus kind of scientific

434
00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:11.279
advisor in the series 3 episode that we watched, the guy who's in

435
00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:13.140
a who was using a wheelchair.

436
00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:13.799
Oh, yeah.

437
00:19:13.799 --> 00:19:15.240
Do you remember him, the scientist?

438
00:19:15.299 --> 00:19:18.119
And Aurelio gets mentioned a few times here.

439
00:19:18.180 --> 00:19:22.140
He's the one who eventually kind of can't stomach what Asira is

440
00:19:22.140 --> 00:19:22.680
doing anymore.

441
00:19:22.740 --> 00:19:26.460
And I don't know whether you noticed at the end, at the very end

442
00:19:26.460 --> 00:19:29.460
of the episode, we actually see Tarker, who's coming along

443
00:19:29.460 --> 00:19:32.940
touching the back of his neck, and we see the scar on the back of

444
00:19:32.940 --> 00:19:38.519
his neck, which is from the implant that you have when you're sort

445
00:19:38.519 --> 00:19:40.380
of enslaved by the emerald chain.

446
00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:44.940
So we'll get that and that's coming up in the end of the season as

447
00:19:44.940 --> 00:19:45.180
well.

448
00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:47.160
He's got a great arc, I think.

449
00:19:47.220 --> 00:19:51.539
When this 1st started, I figured, um, this pair of culba and

450
00:19:51.539 --> 00:19:54.779
stamets, it was, uh, you know, ticking a box.

451
00:19:54.839 --> 00:19:56.940
I couldn't be more wrong.

452
00:19:57.000 --> 00:19:59.279
Like the things they've done with this relationship.

453
00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:02.880
And in this episode in particular, where we see him, I think it's

454
00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:07.079
now, he's helping him put his clothes on or they go to bed at the

455
00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:11.160
end of the episode and they kind of hug each other and and he's

456
00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:13.799
saying to him, you know, I've been told I need to work less.

457
00:20:13.859 --> 00:20:17.099
And it just feels like conversations that I have with my other

458
00:20:17.099 --> 00:20:18.599
half in bed at the end of the night.

459
00:20:18.660 --> 00:20:19.559
It feels so real.

460
00:20:20.339 --> 00:20:21.960
I love it.

461
00:20:22.019 --> 00:20:25.619
I really think this is this is representation at its best.

462
00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:29.519
Well, and these 2 actors knew each other beforehand.

463
00:20:29.579 --> 00:20:31.079
You know, they're both gay.

464
00:20:31.380 --> 00:20:33.299
No, I'm wrong, actually.

465
00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:34.319
I think that they work really well.

466
00:20:34.859 --> 00:20:36.000
I think this is representation.

467
00:20:36.059 --> 00:20:39.660
I think it's just a really well done relationship on this show.

468
00:20:39.720 --> 00:20:40.500
Yeah, yeah.

469
00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:40.980
Yeah.

470
00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:41.579
Yeah.

471
00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:44.519
They're really good, aren't they?

472
00:20:44.579 --> 00:20:45.240
Yeah.

473
00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:50.400
So the big setup in the A plot reminds me mostly of lessons.

474
00:20:50.460 --> 00:20:52.259
Do you remember that setup?

475
00:20:52.259 --> 00:20:55.859
Where they have to evacuate the planet?

476
00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:59.160
So Wendy, you know, Picard's having an affair with Wendy Hughes

477
00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:01.380
and stuff and they're playing piano in his quarters and stuff, that

478
00:21:01.380 --> 00:21:05.579
sort of crappy piano and then they all have to go down to the

479
00:21:05.579 --> 00:21:08.339
planet and the planet's quite well realised and there's some kind

480
00:21:08.339 --> 00:21:12.180
of fire or something and they have to evacuate a whole heap of

481
00:21:12.180 --> 00:21:12.480
people.

482
00:21:12.539 --> 00:21:14.099
I was getting vibes from that.

483
00:21:14.339 --> 00:21:17.640
I always get vibes from that lower deck episode we watched where

484
00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:19.259
it was just 2 people that lived on the planet.

485
00:21:19.319 --> 00:21:20.880
Do you remember?

486
00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:22.380
That's right.

487
00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:23.460
We're very real.

488
00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:24.180
Bl it up.

489
00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:25.980
So what an arsehole.

490
00:21:26.039 --> 00:21:26.759
It's so funny.

491
00:21:26.819 --> 00:21:30.059
I mean, we all think it, but Saru really does have strange feet

492
00:21:30.119 --> 00:21:31.980
just think that's sort of hilarious.

493
00:21:32.039 --> 00:21:33.420
So this.

494
00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:34.380
I'll tell you what.

495
00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:36.839
I mean, these special effects are fantastic.

496
00:21:36.900 --> 00:21:38.700
I think they're armadillos.

497
00:21:38.759 --> 00:21:40.559
I know they're Beatles, I know.

498
00:21:40.619 --> 00:21:42.960
But I think Armadillo's is more funny.

499
00:21:43.019 --> 00:21:46.619
But when they started coming across the CGI landscape, I'm like

500
00:21:46.619 --> 00:21:48.119
we're in a different ball game now.

501
00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:53.640
But, I mean, this is still just the shitty set that we have in, you

502
00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:57.720
know, Star Trek the Next Generation series one for the planet.

503
00:21:57.779 --> 00:22:01.740
It's just that it's done incredibly well and it looks great.

504
00:22:01.859 --> 00:22:03.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

505
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:08.759
It feels like an alien planet and not studio 4 at Paramount.

506
00:22:08.819 --> 00:22:11.940
And look, they're giving pretty race something to do, which is

507
00:22:11.940 --> 00:22:12.720
kind of nice.

508
00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:17.160
And he gets to be in shot because we're all just holograms now

509
00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:18.240
which I think is pretty great.

510
00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:21.599
I tell you what I did like was the fact that I, you know, I

511
00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:24.359
thought, oh, we've got our action set PC with the armadillos with

512
00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:25.859
the circular sauce coming out of their backs.

513
00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:29.039
Don't get me wrong, I was sitting there going, man, that is so

514
00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:29.279
cool.

515
00:22:29.339 --> 00:22:32.759
Especially when it's the circular source, stop chewing through

516
00:22:32.759 --> 00:22:34.619
rock and sparks are going everywhere.

517
00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:37.019
But then obviously that is the plot point, isn't it?

518
00:22:37.079 --> 00:22:39.180
Because that's how they get out of the prison at the end of the

519
00:22:39.180 --> 00:22:39.480
episode.

520
00:22:39.539 --> 00:22:40.319
Yeah.

521
00:22:40.380 --> 00:22:42.000
It is there for a reason.

522
00:22:42.059 --> 00:22:44.640
It's not just your Voyager. throw in a bit of action.

523
00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:49.319
Although this is very Star Trek, this conversation, isn't it?

524
00:22:49.380 --> 00:22:51.480
Like where they're talking, they're telling each other things

525
00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:55.259
about their relationship that they clearly absolutely no, all of

526
00:22:55.259 --> 00:22:56.759
that stuff happened.

527
00:22:56.819 --> 00:23:00.900
All that stuff that happened kind of between episodes one and 2 of

528
00:23:00.900 --> 00:23:01.440
last season.

529
00:23:01.500 --> 00:23:05.519
Look, now, I don't, I don't, even though the dialogue is better on

530
00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:06.000
Discover.

531
00:23:06.119 --> 00:23:08.640
I mean, they're above a bit of the old 90s banter, you know.

532
00:23:08.700 --> 00:23:12.420
I actually think Felix's big, heartbreaking, heartbreaking speech

533
00:23:12.420 --> 00:23:16.200
is absolutely one of those Star Trek heartbreaking speeches, but

534
00:23:16.200 --> 00:23:20.160
again, it's just beautifully acted by the guest actor.

535
00:23:20.220 --> 00:23:22.859
Do you not remember in the Serene School where they led into that

536
00:23:22.859 --> 00:23:24.900
that dreadful backstory that she had?

537
00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:28.799
And then she goes, once she's exposed to the villain, she goes, do

538
00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:30.839
you really believe that dreadful backstory I told you?

539
00:23:34.140 --> 00:23:34.980
It was very funny.

540
00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:36.240
Oh, here we go.

541
00:23:36.299 --> 00:23:36.960
Yeah, look at this.

542
00:23:37.259 --> 00:23:39.599
It's a mobile landmine.

543
00:23:39.660 --> 00:23:41.579
So great, isn't it?

544
00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:43.200
So great.

545
00:23:45.180 --> 00:23:47.819
So there's a lot going on, isn't it?

546
00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:51.359
You've got, yeah, you've got the arsehole rising scientist who's

547
00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:53.279
coming along to study the DMA.

548
00:23:53.339 --> 00:23:54.539
You've got...

549
00:23:54.539 --> 00:23:55.559
I guess he's the B plot.

550
00:23:55.619 --> 00:23:58.559
Yep, you've got Colbot who's having a bit of a nervous breakdown

551
00:23:58.559 --> 00:23:59.940
because C plot.

552
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:03.000
I want to talk about that because he's taking on a lot of what

553
00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:07.559
everybody is feeling about this widdly wobbly space normally that

554
00:24:07.559 --> 00:24:08.880
is absolutely terrifying.

555
00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:14.700
And you've got Burnham and booked down on the planet trying to

556
00:24:14.700 --> 00:24:15.299
release the Brits.

557
00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:17.220
So it's been the A plot, I think.

558
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:17.940
It's never boring.

559
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:19.980
It's always... something happening.

560
00:24:20.039 --> 00:24:22.019
There's a lot. yeah there's a lot going on.

561
00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:25.500
And the, like the B plot and the C plot don't resolve themselves

562
00:24:25.500 --> 00:24:29.039
here, or they, although they do kind of come to a conclusion, I

563
00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:34.079
guess you get the thing where Stamets kind of likes and he's on

564
00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:39.599
side with Taka, despite being initially kind of sceptical and

565
00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:41.099
possibly even a bit intimidated.

566
00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:44.099
And look, here he is being an asshole and doing the, like, doing

567
00:24:44.099 --> 00:24:46.259
the bigger up to shut up.

568
00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:47.880
The mashed potatoes.

569
00:24:48.059 --> 00:24:52.319
Because he's just watched close encounters of the 3rd kind.

570
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:55.619
And the best line is just when he goes, um...

571
00:24:55.619 --> 00:25:00.240
He goes, yeah, I am an asshole and I like being an asshole.

572
00:25:00.299 --> 00:25:03.960
So I'm invested in keeping new people alive because I like being

573
00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:05.579
alive because I'm amazing.

574
00:25:05.640 --> 00:25:06.539
I like me.

575
00:25:07.980 --> 00:25:11.759
I may have paraphrased there a little bit, but you know what I'm

576
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:12.839
saying.

577
00:25:12.900 --> 00:25:17.160
But my point was about all the content in this episode is all of

578
00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:18.359
this is a bit old hat.

579
00:25:18.420 --> 00:25:20.400
We've had wibbly wobbly space normies before.

580
00:25:20.460 --> 00:25:23.279
We've had prison planets before and we've had people having

581
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:24.539
nervous breakdowns before.

582
00:25:24.599 --> 00:25:25.380
Yeah.

583
00:25:25.380 --> 00:25:28.440
But I feel the characters are so fresh.

584
00:25:28.500 --> 00:25:30.420
All of this stuff.

585
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:34.079
It kind of feels new. if it feels it doesn't feel boring.

586
00:25:34.140 --> 00:25:41.099
No, I mean, this is kind of the 3rd season of discovering a row to

587
00:25:41.099 --> 00:25:44.460
have a big space anomaly or various space anomalies.

588
00:25:44.519 --> 00:25:47.700
You know, it's the red lights in series two.

589
00:25:47.759 --> 00:25:51.059
It's the burn in series 3 and now we have the DMA.

590
00:25:51.059 --> 00:25:52.319
I don't think they've done this.

591
00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:54.299
I think the anomalies in Star Trek before this, you know.

592
00:25:54.359 --> 00:25:55.380
Oh, it's quite a new idea.

593
00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:56.220
No.

594
00:25:56.279 --> 00:26:01.140
In fact, this is the 1st season to reuse a title from an earlier

595
00:26:01.140 --> 00:26:06.779
Star Trek. because this also has an episode called Anomaly. like

596
00:26:06.779 --> 00:26:07.740
the Enterprise episode.

597
00:26:07.799 --> 00:26:09.900
But this is a big last anomaly.

598
00:26:09.960 --> 00:26:11.819
And I love awful.

599
00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:16.799
I think that absolutely that episode of Enterprise shows our

600
00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:18.900
differences in what we want. from Star Trek.

601
00:26:18.900 --> 00:26:22.859
Well, because I want Star Trek to be full of exciting, hopeful

602
00:26:22.859 --> 00:26:28.140
people who are inquisitive and and selfless and kind and all of

603
00:26:28.140 --> 00:26:28.380
that.

604
00:26:28.440 --> 00:26:32.220
I like, I just don't want them robbing people or leaving them to

605
00:26:32.220 --> 00:26:32.460
die.

606
00:26:32.579 --> 00:26:35.640
Sequences and being morally compromised.

607
00:26:35.700 --> 00:26:37.740
Yeah, no, that's so boring.

608
00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:43.799
That is subjective, you know. want people to be nice.

609
00:26:43.859 --> 00:26:45.539
Look how nice Michael is.

610
00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:47.640
And book is nice as well. nice.

611
00:26:47.700 --> 00:26:48.299
I'm not nice.

612
00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:51.240
We're looking for ourselves.

613
00:26:51.299 --> 00:26:56.819
I don't think I'm that nice This is so great, isn't it?

614
00:26:56.880 --> 00:27:00.000
Like, yes, of course they have fucking band sauce.

615
00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:00.720
Do you know what it is?

616
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:05.099
It should be have a line like Galaxy Quest where those chompers

617
00:27:05.099 --> 00:27:05.940
are in the middle of the ship.

618
00:27:06.059 --> 00:27:08.640
And she goes, why are the chompers in the middle of the ship?

619
00:27:08.700 --> 00:27:10.380
Who the fuck wrote this episode?

620
00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:16.319
Well, I mean, it is to keep people in and out of this prison.

621
00:27:16.380 --> 00:27:20.460
And the is the building floating or something?

622
00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:21.960
There's something really weird about it.

623
00:27:22.019 --> 00:27:24.960
Again, it's one of those things where you just kind of can't quite

624
00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:27.960
see, you're not sure what it is you're seeing.

625
00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:33.000
This is where this plot kind of lost me a little bit.

626
00:27:33.059 --> 00:27:37.380
I was like, it's okay. you know, but there's a lot of standing

627
00:27:37.380 --> 00:27:39.660
around with them going, you know, I'm a nice person really.

628
00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:46.799
I think that the thing that this plot does and does well is it

629
00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:54.900
gives a guest actor a really proper solid turn and it contrasts.

630
00:27:55.019 --> 00:27:59.700
Look, so they lock these people up and they lock them up not

631
00:27:59.700 --> 00:28:02.819
necessarily because they deserve it, whatever that means.

632
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:06.660
They lock them up because they think that it discourages people

633
00:28:06.660 --> 00:28:07.799
from committing crimes.

634
00:28:07.859 --> 00:28:08.819
Okay?

635
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:10.079
And he's explaining it here.

636
00:28:10.140 --> 00:28:13.559
You know, they're just here for purely political reasons.

637
00:28:13.619 --> 00:28:16.980
Yes, they've committed a crime, but it's for life and they're here

638
00:28:16.980 --> 00:28:17.519
for good.

639
00:28:17.579 --> 00:28:25.740
But in fact, letting Felix out and giving him some agency actually

640
00:28:25.740 --> 00:28:28.859
is the thing that produces a good outcome.

641
00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:34.980
And the good outcome is that he gets to rest after paying for his

642
00:28:34.980 --> 00:28:42.299
crime and he gets to return that tree hologram ball thing to the

643
00:28:42.299 --> 00:28:46.559
young girl whose father, he killed.

644
00:28:46.619 --> 00:28:48.420
And I think it's beautiful.

645
00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:52.079
Like, I think there's something really, just, it was a nice, main

646
00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:53.339
and marvellous about it.

647
00:28:53.400 --> 00:28:54.420
Yeah.

648
00:28:54.420 --> 00:28:55.140
Yeah.

649
00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:57.420
And I think that that's the, I think that that's what this is

650
00:28:57.420 --> 00:29:02.099
saying. you know, locking people up. to for a reason.

651
00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:03.359
Do you know what I mean?

652
00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:05.279
In order to produce a greater good?

653
00:29:05.339 --> 00:29:11.759
That's not the thing, that it's letting this man go, giving him

654
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:12.660
some agency.

655
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:17.579
You know, he doesn't solve, he doesn't, you know, that that girl

656
00:29:17.579 --> 00:29:21.660
talks about her father being killed when she was little, but he

657
00:29:21.660 --> 00:29:24.359
makes a decision that doesn't quite make it right, but that at

658
00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:28.259
least means that he can rest in peace and that he's able to make

659
00:29:28.259 --> 00:29:32.400
up to some degree for the loss that she experienced.

660
00:29:32.460 --> 00:29:36.180
I think that's, that's what I think this version of Star Trek does

661
00:29:36.180 --> 00:29:39.299
more than any other, is that it's humane.

662
00:29:39.599 --> 00:29:42.420
And it plays out nicely.

663
00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:46.140
I wouldn't say it's revelatory material in any way. that isn't

664
00:29:46.140 --> 00:29:48.720
going to rock your world. it's nice No, you know?

665
00:29:48.779 --> 00:29:52.500
I found myself quite moved at the end of it, and I think it's

666
00:29:52.500 --> 00:29:54.720
mostly down to that guy's performance.

667
00:29:54.779 --> 00:29:57.000
So here is David Cohen.

668
00:29:58.019 --> 00:30:01.019
Okay, everybody who is watching along with the episode.

669
00:30:01.079 --> 00:30:03.720
Turn us off now and just listen to the dialogue in this.

670
00:30:03.779 --> 00:30:05.099
Jesus.

671
00:30:05.099 --> 00:30:06.000
Oh my God.

672
00:30:06.059 --> 00:30:08.880
Kronenberg is beyond good in this.

673
00:30:08.940 --> 00:30:09.779
Yeah.

674
00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:13.440
We thought so too, into episodes time.

675
00:30:13.500 --> 00:30:17.819
Remember, he's the one who we think is going to call for Zora to

676
00:30:17.819 --> 00:30:24.119
be deactivated, but in fact, he is, like us, interested in Zora

677
00:30:24.119 --> 00:30:27.180
interested in her welfare and was actually prepared to kick

678
00:30:27.180 --> 00:30:30.900
Stamets off the ship rather than deactivate Zora.

679
00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:37.740
And so even though he's brusque and he's an asshole, he is someone

680
00:30:37.740 --> 00:30:40.079
who really genuinely cares.

681
00:30:40.140 --> 00:30:43.680
But that's never Schmaltzy.

682
00:30:43.740 --> 00:30:46.319
He doesn't... for 12nd.

683
00:30:46.319 --> 00:30:48.539
He is as cold as hell.

684
00:30:48.599 --> 00:30:49.619
He is clinical.

685
00:30:49.680 --> 00:30:51.119
He is till the point.

686
00:30:51.180 --> 00:30:54.180
He is reminding him that he's only got 10 minutes and he's 3

687
00:30:54.180 --> 00:30:54.779
minutes in.

688
00:30:54.839 --> 00:31:00.119
And yet what he delivers is a very humane you need to look after

689
00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:00.599
yourself.

690
00:31:00.660 --> 00:31:03.119
If you're going to look after other people, you need to look after

691
00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:03.599
yourself.

692
00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:06.960
And he even delivers that in a kind of a 2 fingers up way.

693
00:31:07.019 --> 00:31:07.680
It's great.

694
00:31:07.740 --> 00:31:09.000
It's wonderful.

695
00:31:09.059 --> 00:31:12.359
So he's one of the 1st people that they meet when they arrive in

696
00:31:12.359 --> 00:31:15.420
the future because he debriefs them and we see him interviewing

697
00:31:15.420 --> 00:31:18.000
Giorgio and things and it's magnificent.

698
00:31:18.059 --> 00:31:22.440
This is the best psychological study from one character to another

699
00:31:22.440 --> 00:31:27.420
since Garak went out to Ezry Dax and said she was pathetic and a

700
00:31:27.420 --> 00:31:29.819
whimpering girl compared to Jud Zia Dax.

701
00:31:29.880 --> 00:31:33.599
I just thought this whole scene was definitely written. and really

702
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:34.980
maturely played.

703
00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:35.700
Colba.

704
00:31:35.759 --> 00:31:39.180
His performance throughout this is extraordinary.

705
00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:40.380
Yeah.

706
00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:41.400
Yeah.

707
00:31:41.460 --> 00:31:43.140
It's so good, isn't it?

708
00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:46.799
Do you know he gets a bit fiery on Twitter, doesn't he?

709
00:31:46.980 --> 00:31:49.559
Oh, yeah, yeah. very political.

710
00:31:49.619 --> 00:31:52.559
He also takes his shirt off quite a lot and he's very...

711
00:31:52.619 --> 00:31:53.880
I mean, I'm not complaining about that.

712
00:31:53.940 --> 00:31:57.539
But no, he's not he is not afraid of voicing his opinion or

713
00:31:57.539 --> 00:31:58.500
calling people out.

714
00:31:58.559 --> 00:32:01.680
Yeah, yeah, no, I like him a lot.

715
00:32:01.740 --> 00:32:05.519
But he gets angry about this as well, about discovery when people

716
00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:07.980
kind of throw shade in his direction.

717
00:32:08.039 --> 00:32:11.880
And I, I don't think that's such a bad thing either.

718
00:32:11.940 --> 00:32:13.980
I know they sort of discourage that sort of thing, but...

719
00:32:13.980 --> 00:32:15.119
Yeah, yeah.

720
00:32:15.180 --> 00:32:19.319
But I think, you know, like with any fandom, there's, we've got

721
00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:23.519
the problem where if it doesn't centre on wide heterosexual people

722
00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:27.420
they'll be angry in cells, you know, kind of attacking people

723
00:32:27.420 --> 00:32:27.900
about it.

724
00:32:27.960 --> 00:32:29.759
And that's a fandom problem.

725
00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:33.599
That's universal across all of those atoms we...

726
00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:34.380
The woke argument.

727
00:32:34.440 --> 00:32:36.539
Is that in a new trek as well?

728
00:32:36.599 --> 00:32:37.259
Yeah, yeah.

729
00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:40.259
Well, if you're saying that it's too woke because it has gay

730
00:32:40.259 --> 00:32:43.740
people and non-white people in it, well, you can just fuck on.

731
00:32:43.740 --> 00:32:46.920
Stephen I. What's the alternative?

732
00:32:46.980 --> 00:32:48.779
Yeah, that's right.

733
00:32:48.839 --> 00:32:49.319
That's it.

734
00:32:49.380 --> 00:32:51.599
You just all have white people. all the gays.

735
00:32:51.660 --> 00:32:53.819
Anyone from a foreign nationality.

736
00:32:53.880 --> 00:32:58.980
I mean, even even in its time, you know, even though it was sort

737
00:32:58.980 --> 00:33:03.420
of a bit more timid than this, original Star Trek was woke by any

738
00:33:03.420 --> 00:33:06.599
kind of standards with the, you know, woman on the bridge, or

739
00:33:06.599 --> 00:33:11.819
she's the receptionist, but, you know, there's a Russian who's

740
00:33:11.819 --> 00:33:15.839
alongside us serving alongside us and part of our community in the

741
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:16.980
middle of the Cold War.

742
00:33:17.039 --> 00:33:19.559
Like, you know, it's woke as hell. couldn't be more way.

743
00:33:19.619 --> 00:33:22.019
But is it the fact they're sorry to go down this route, but is it

744
00:33:22.019 --> 00:33:27.000
the fact that television has been so, you know, 2.4 children wiped

745
00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:31.500
for so long now that people are just indoctrinated that that is

746
00:33:31.500 --> 00:33:36.180
acceptable and then being diverse?

747
00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:38.880
is is pandering.

748
00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:39.480
Yeah.

749
00:33:39.539 --> 00:33:40.380
Yeah.

750
00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:43.559
But there are all sorts of stories that we now hear that we

751
00:33:43.559 --> 00:33:47.579
wouldn't have heard before, and that's enriching.

752
00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:48.180
Look at him.

753
00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:51.660
I have a 2 o'clock buy and he's just...

754
00:33:51.720 --> 00:33:54.000
He just sort of leaves him.

755
00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:57.119
And just that really just devastating analysis.

756
00:33:57.180 --> 00:33:58.740
You're doing this because you died.

757
00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:00.059
You have survivor's guilt.

758
00:34:00.119 --> 00:34:02.759
You don't know why it was you and now you're just going to work

759
00:34:02.759 --> 00:34:05.279
yourself into the ground because you feel bad about that.

760
00:34:06.119 --> 00:34:09.960
That absolutely justifies killing him off.

761
00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:10.800
I'm bringing him back.

762
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:13.139
Yeah, yeah, because it really makes a point.

763
00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:15.059
There's a lot of people dying this season.

764
00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:16.860
I'm told.

765
00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:19.260
I haven't seen any yet, but I've uphold it a lot of people are

766
00:34:19.260 --> 00:34:19.500
dying.

767
00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:21.119
Oh yeah, yeah.

768
00:34:21.179 --> 00:34:22.139
Whole planet.

769
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:23.519
And he died and came back.

770
00:34:23.579 --> 00:34:25.559
So yeah, naturally he's feeling guilt about that.

771
00:34:25.619 --> 00:34:29.280
But there was a there was a wonderful bit which really struck home

772
00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:32.219
to me because it's something that I can be guilty of a lot, is

773
00:34:32.219 --> 00:34:34.199
where he says, I'm talking to people and I'm offering them hope

774
00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:37.380
and I'm da da, and I'm lying to them. lying.

775
00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:38.219
Because I don't know.

776
00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:39.059
Yeah.

777
00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:42.239
It's really, really good.

778
00:34:42.300 --> 00:34:43.500
Really good.

779
00:34:43.559 --> 00:34:46.559
I just I was sort of nodding along going, I absolutely get where

780
00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:51.420
you're coming from and how you are taking on the guilt and the

781
00:34:51.420 --> 00:34:56.699
fear and the emotions of everybody around you and it's too much

782
00:34:56.699 --> 00:34:57.599
and you need a break.

783
00:34:57.659 --> 00:34:58.199
Hey, guess what?

784
00:34:58.260 --> 00:34:59.099
on holiday this week.

785
00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:04.559
Well, it's funny because he and Paul then in bed later on, kind of

786
00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:09.360
uh, compare notes on being workaholic assholes for one reason or

787
00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:10.019
another.

788
00:35:10.079 --> 00:35:10.800
No, he says true.

789
00:35:10.860 --> 00:35:13.139
No one's...

790
00:35:13.139 --> 00:35:14.820
We've got the same DNA.

791
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:17.039
Oh, that's great.

792
00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:18.780
So, and look at this.

793
00:35:18.840 --> 00:35:21.719
He actually, does he ever intend to go?

794
00:35:21.780 --> 00:35:25.679
So what Felix is doing here is ensuring that the others are okay

795
00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:29.820
because I don't think Felix ever intends to leave the asteroid.

796
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:33.480
I mean, I think perhaps there could have been one seriously

797
00:35:33.480 --> 00:35:34.739
horrible criminal in there.

798
00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:35.820
I mean, he is a prisoner.

799
00:35:35.880 --> 00:35:38.219
No, no, Felix murdered someone.

800
00:35:38.340 --> 00:35:41.940
Yeah, murdered the guy. he's a pretty nice guy. you know, you made

801
00:35:41.940 --> 00:35:43.860
a mistake, but...

802
00:35:43.980 --> 00:35:44.940
Yeah, but it was murder.

803
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:47.579
That's a bad mistake to make Most of us managed not to do it.

804
00:35:47.639 --> 00:35:49.559
He's had his time in prison to reflect.

805
00:35:49.619 --> 00:35:52.380
And now, he's a better person for it.

806
00:35:52.500 --> 00:35:53.880
Yeah.

807
00:35:53.940 --> 00:35:56.039
But he still pays the price.

808
00:35:56.099 --> 00:35:57.599
He's still not forgiven.

809
00:35:57.659 --> 00:35:59.460
He's never allowed to...

810
00:35:59.460 --> 00:36:01.139
What's the name of this horizon scientist?

811
00:36:01.199 --> 00:36:02.699
I keep calling him the rising scientist.

812
00:36:02.760 --> 00:36:03.480
Tarker.

813
00:36:03.539 --> 00:36:04.260
Tarker.

814
00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:07.679
The other thing I love about him is that was Stamitz in series

815
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:08.039
one.

816
00:36:08.099 --> 00:36:10.440
This is how far we've come. you know?

817
00:36:10.500 --> 00:36:11.159
Yeah, yeah.

818
00:36:11.219 --> 00:36:13.980
He's no longer the most arrogant man in the galaxy.

819
00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:18.480
In fact, damn it's looking across and him going, what the fuck is

820
00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:18.960
this person?

821
00:36:19.019 --> 00:36:20.699
Who is he?

822
00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:23.280
Like, he can barely believe the way he's behaving.

823
00:36:23.400 --> 00:36:24.420
The way he points.

824
00:36:24.420 --> 00:36:27.480
He points to the tattoo on his head and goes, oh, I'm from Rizer

825
00:36:27.480 --> 00:36:28.679
and I was surrounded by idiots.

826
00:36:28.739 --> 00:36:31.800
He's obviously seen Lehi who is without seeing him.

827
00:36:31.860 --> 00:36:33.599
Yes, exactly right.

828
00:36:33.659 --> 00:36:34.920
Captain isology.

829
00:36:35.460 --> 00:36:37.199
Oh yeah.

830
00:36:37.260 --> 00:36:39.480
Every time we go to riser.

831
00:36:39.539 --> 00:36:41.280
I think they do an enterprise as well, you know.

832
00:36:41.340 --> 00:36:42.840
Oh, God.

833
00:36:42.900 --> 00:36:44.519
Yeah, I can't imagine that as well.

834
00:36:44.579 --> 00:36:46.860
Isn't this kind of amazing.

835
00:36:46.920 --> 00:36:49.980
They're all just standing around the set and now that we can

836
00:36:49.980 --> 00:36:53.400
afford to do proper holograms and stuff, just everything that

837
00:36:53.400 --> 00:36:56.099
they're touching and fiddling with holograms, holograms, and

838
00:36:56.099 --> 00:36:58.260
there's big holograms in the middle of the room and that's the

839
00:36:58.260 --> 00:37:01.260
experiment, and...

840
00:37:01.320 --> 00:37:02.699
Just so much more dynamic, doesn't it?

841
00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:06.239
Yeah, standard consoles, touching bits of, you know, coloured

842
00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:06.599
paper.

843
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:12.480
Maybe this looks cheesy in 20 or 30 years' time, but I think it's

844
00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:13.019
a great look.

845
00:37:13.079 --> 00:37:14.760
How are we going to make it better than this?

846
00:37:14.820 --> 00:37:15.960
I don't know.

847
00:37:16.019 --> 00:37:17.400
They'll find a way somehow.

848
00:37:17.460 --> 00:37:17.940
They will.

849
00:37:18.059 --> 00:37:20.159
It'll literally be coming out the screen at you.

850
00:37:20.219 --> 00:37:20.940
You know?

851
00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:24.179
Your hands are coming out the screen. will be a hologram.

852
00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:28.559
I love to, you know, that Star Trek had holograms in series one

853
00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:32.639
and 2 when we were in the 23rd century, and now that we've come to

854
00:37:32.639 --> 00:37:36.119
the 31st century, What they do is the holograms just look like the

855
00:37:36.119 --> 00:37:38.219
act is in the room and they don't do anything.

856
00:37:38.219 --> 00:37:42.480
Apart from the occasional interference pattern, which seems to be

857
00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:46.500
required once every scene just to remind you that it's a

858
00:37:46.500 --> 00:37:47.099
hologram.

859
00:37:47.159 --> 00:37:48.179
We saw Reese Stewart.

860
00:37:48.239 --> 00:37:49.679
We saw COVID Stewart.

861
00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:51.960
This is so funny.

862
00:37:52.019 --> 00:37:56.519
And this went, it's like some reason actually so perfect.

863
00:37:56.579 --> 00:38:01.260
But then when Saru shouts back at him, they do the thing that they

864
00:38:01.260 --> 00:38:04.860
do to Dr. Flocks, which is that they kind of, you know, do

865
00:38:04.860 --> 00:38:08.699
something weird electronically to make it scarier and more alien.

866
00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:11.820
Just, it's mild mannered Doug Jones.

867
00:38:11.880 --> 00:38:15.539
So we're going to, we're going to augment his shout.

868
00:38:15.599 --> 00:38:16.679
That was something.

869
00:38:17.820 --> 00:38:19.860
She's so great.

870
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:21.300
So underused.

871
00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:22.860
Let's have more Jet Reno.

872
00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:24.659
Here we go.

873
00:38:24.719 --> 00:38:26.579
You may not like me, but I love me.

874
00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:30.480
I am going to make sure that we don't all get killed, right?

875
00:38:30.659 --> 00:38:33.420
Oh my God, we need more...

876
00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:34.199
Do you know what, though?

877
00:38:34.260 --> 00:38:37.320
When they do arrogant characters, the night is true. unbearable.

878
00:38:37.380 --> 00:38:38.460
They're absolutely...

879
00:38:38.460 --> 00:38:39.780
These fellas quite likeable.

880
00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:41.940
It's got a bit of swagger, you know?

881
00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:44.880
He's got a really great backstory.

882
00:38:44.940 --> 00:38:49.739
There is an episode where there's an alien who is a male alien.

883
00:38:49.800 --> 00:38:55.199
In the end of the, like in the 2nd half of the season, he, he, we

884
00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:59.639
hear his backstory when he's working for the uh, Emerald Chain, and

885
00:38:59.639 --> 00:39:05.519
he falls in love with this guy, um, and we find out how that bears

886
00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:06.659
on what he's doing now.

887
00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:12.179
And it's really, it, like it just makes his thing much weirder and

888
00:39:12.179 --> 00:39:15.420
much more, interesting and much more resonant.

889
00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:16.860
It's super interesting.

890
00:39:16.920 --> 00:39:17.940
I really like it.

891
00:39:18.059 --> 00:39:19.739
And it's a good episode too.

892
00:39:19.800 --> 00:39:22.500
Here we go, now, back to the prison planet.

893
00:39:22.619 --> 00:39:23.699
Yeah, yeah.

894
00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:26.280
Yeah, the title is explained, the examples.

895
00:39:26.340 --> 00:39:27.000
Yes.

896
00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:30.300
Well, he does rather tell you a thing you need to know about this

897
00:39:30.300 --> 00:39:31.079
plot, doesn't he?

898
00:39:31.139 --> 00:39:32.460
Yeah, yeah.

899
00:39:32.519 --> 00:39:33.119
Yeah.

900
00:39:33.239 --> 00:39:36.780
But I think, you know, yeah, this is probably the slowest beard.

901
00:39:36.780 --> 00:39:40.440
But well, I like the bit where he was going, look, I, you know, we

902
00:39:40.440 --> 00:39:41.159
want immunity.

903
00:39:41.219 --> 00:39:43.559
Otherwise, we ain't coming and we'll just stay here and die.

904
00:39:43.619 --> 00:39:46.559
Like, yeah, but that's what he's going to do anyway.

905
00:39:46.619 --> 00:39:48.960
So he is just making sure that the other 3 are okay.

906
00:39:49.019 --> 00:39:50.639
And you know what?

907
00:39:50.699 --> 00:39:51.300
It's great.

908
00:39:51.300 --> 00:39:54.179
I'll say it is a fantastic say it is well lit and they've even

909
00:39:54.179 --> 00:39:57.360
shoved in like a load of dust or something.

910
00:39:57.420 --> 00:39:59.280
So the light picks out.

911
00:39:59.340 --> 00:40:01.980
I mean, it's just that sort of detail you're thinking of.

912
00:40:02.039 --> 00:40:02.519
Yeah, yeah.

913
00:40:02.579 --> 00:40:03.179
Yeah.

914
00:40:03.179 --> 00:40:03.900
Yeah.

915
00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:04.440
Yeah.

916
00:40:04.500 --> 00:40:09.119
I mean, it's got a very DS9 kind of feel to the design, still.

917
00:40:09.179 --> 00:40:10.320
Do you know what I mean?

918
00:40:10.380 --> 00:40:12.539
Well, it reminds me yellow and black.

919
00:40:12.599 --> 00:40:16.800
When we went down to, you know, to save Rebecca in Blaze of

920
00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:17.219
Glory.

921
00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:19.139
And it was all lit like this, wasn't it?

922
00:40:19.260 --> 00:40:20.219
And sort of dusty.

923
00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:21.480
Yeah, and dust and stuff.

924
00:40:21.539 --> 00:40:23.639
But I just love the yellow.

925
00:40:23.699 --> 00:40:25.559
There's so much yellow light, I think, in Discovery.

926
00:40:25.619 --> 00:40:26.400
This is beautiful too.

927
00:40:26.460 --> 00:40:30.960
I think you're right, you know, it's so like latter day, DS9, and

928
00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:31.380
all of this now.

929
00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:34.739
I think that's why I'm very keen.

930
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:35.880
Yeah.

931
00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:40.019
Oh dear, Michael Burnham, honestly, she does like standing there

932
00:40:40.019 --> 00:40:42.179
you know, looking a bit.

933
00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:42.840
Looking caring.

934
00:40:42.900 --> 00:40:43.199
Yeah.

935
00:40:43.260 --> 00:40:44.039
Yeah.

936
00:40:44.099 --> 00:40:49.260
But she does give the, she does give the governor of this, um, of

937
00:40:49.260 --> 00:40:52.920
this asteroid belt or whatever the hell it is, uh, like she

938
00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:55.860
absolutely smacks him down, which I thought was pretty damn

939
00:40:55.860 --> 00:40:56.159
great.

940
00:40:56.219 --> 00:41:00.000
I must prefer enough state discovery than the beginning where she

941
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:01.139
was playing it a bit like data.

942
00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:02.159
Is it a Vulcan?

943
00:41:02.219 --> 00:41:03.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

944
00:41:03.300 --> 00:41:05.340
Which was brought up by Vulcans was the idea.

945
00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:07.800
And so they decided to make her a bit more Vulcan.

946
00:41:07.860 --> 00:41:10.920
And then they have to retool the character when she comes to the

947
00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:11.159
future.

948
00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:15.599
I, but you know, presumably with a view to making her captain even

949
00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:15.900
then.

950
00:41:15.960 --> 00:41:19.440
I think she's probably still my least favourite, though, of the

951
00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:20.159
main cast.

952
00:41:20.219 --> 00:41:21.360
Of the characters.

953
00:41:21.420 --> 00:41:23.760
The characters, not the cast, just the character.

954
00:41:23.820 --> 00:41:26.099
Oh, I mean, I love Sanequa as an actor.

955
00:41:26.159 --> 00:41:27.239
I think she's making me.

956
00:41:27.300 --> 00:41:30.719
Oh, and she delivered everything they ask her to do, you know, even

957
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:32.639
if she did take a little while to find the emotion.

958
00:41:32.699 --> 00:41:36.780
Yeah, yeah, but I think that that's a riding problem, really.

959
00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:40.260
That's a sign of how strong those characters are now. as well.

960
00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:42.119
That she's weakest for me.

961
00:41:42.179 --> 00:41:45.000
I just think she's so charming.

962
00:41:45.059 --> 00:41:46.980
Look how beautiful she is.

963
00:41:47.039 --> 00:41:52.139
And when she smiles, I mean, she's just so stunning. and just

964
00:41:52.139 --> 00:41:52.739
magnificent.

965
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:54.300
Everybody else has got a better hook.

966
00:41:54.360 --> 00:41:59.280
Saru is like your exotic alien stab it is an arrogant prick.

967
00:41:59.340 --> 00:42:00.300
Yeah.

968
00:42:00.300 --> 00:42:01.679
Culbert's pretty.

969
00:42:02.579 --> 00:42:04.679
Telly is just wonderful.

970
00:42:06.119 --> 00:42:08.099
Why did they write her out?

971
00:42:08.579 --> 00:42:12.059
Oh no, I think she's taking a break.

972
00:42:12.119 --> 00:42:14.699
So she will be back at the end of the season and she is going to

973
00:42:14.699 --> 00:42:18.179
be back in series five, but I think she wanted to take a break and

974
00:42:18.179 --> 00:42:20.639
I think she got pregnant or had kids or something.

975
00:42:20.760 --> 00:42:24.000
Like there was some personal thing that kind of interrupted her

976
00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:25.079
her being on her.

977
00:42:25.139 --> 00:42:27.900
I know I asked you that question, but can I just point out there's

978
00:42:27.900 --> 00:42:28.739
nothing finer.

979
00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:32.940
And robotic armadillos with circular swords breaking into a prison

980
00:42:32.940 --> 00:42:36.840
like this with mushroom, breaking them out of the prison. billowing

981
00:42:36.840 --> 00:42:37.139
everywhere.

982
00:42:40.619 --> 00:42:43.019
Switch them off just in time.

983
00:42:43.079 --> 00:42:45.960
And just that she's so chill too.

984
00:42:46.019 --> 00:42:49.019
Like, I love her and book coming down to planets and getting into

985
00:42:49.019 --> 00:42:51.599
peril and the 2 of them kind of smiling and laughing at each other

986
00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:53.460
and her being kind of chill and fabulous.

987
00:42:53.519 --> 00:42:54.780
Is that eye again?

988
00:42:54.840 --> 00:42:56.760
Yeah, yeah.

989
00:42:56.820 --> 00:43:00.539
But that, I suppose, the only direction to take that relationship

990
00:43:00.539 --> 00:43:05.039
because they are so such a good couple together is to sort of put

991
00:43:05.039 --> 00:43:05.940
something between them.

992
00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:07.079
Yeah.

993
00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:07.679
You know?

994
00:43:07.739 --> 00:43:12.360
And to, yeah, watching people being happy for seasons on, that's

995
00:43:12.360 --> 00:43:12.480
right.

996
00:43:12.539 --> 00:43:13.500
No, boring, man.

997
00:43:13.500 --> 00:43:14.099
Nice TV.

998
00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:18.119
And, and, but that's what also, and I think we said at the time

999
00:43:18.119 --> 00:43:24.599
that's what makes that political... disagreement personal.

1000
00:43:24.659 --> 00:43:28.739
You know, the reason that we care, I think, one of the reasons

1001
00:43:28.739 --> 00:43:33.599
that we really care when that debate is, do we just blow the 10 C

1002
00:43:33.599 --> 00:43:38.579
up if we can, Tarka's plan, or do we try and contact them and

1003
00:43:38.579 --> 00:43:39.840
communicate with them first?

1004
00:43:39.900 --> 00:43:43.019
And it's Starfleet, and obviously we should do the 2nd one of

1005
00:43:43.019 --> 00:43:48.119
those, but you've got 2 people who you care about, who have a good

1006
00:43:48.119 --> 00:43:52.199
relationship together, who are great on screen together, who

1007
00:43:52.199 --> 00:43:53.099
disagree about it.

1008
00:43:53.159 --> 00:43:55.380
So it also becomes about their relationship.

1009
00:43:55.440 --> 00:43:56.340
It's perfect, I think.

1010
00:43:56.400 --> 00:43:57.780
So help to everyone.

1011
00:43:57.840 --> 00:44:00.239
Well, I hate to bring it down to that, but what a pretty couple.

1012
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:04.500
Now, without giving me any spoilers whatsoever, because really I

1013
00:44:04.500 --> 00:44:05.940
do not want to be spoiled about this.

1014
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:09.719
I'm assuming the 10 C is explained.

1015
00:44:09.780 --> 00:44:14.099
Somehow we managed to communicate with it eventually, and it's all

1016
00:44:14.099 --> 00:44:14.579
resolved.

1017
00:44:14.639 --> 00:44:15.659
Is it satisfying?

1018
00:44:15.719 --> 00:44:20.820
Yeah, in fact, I think that run of episodes that leads to the

1019
00:44:20.820 --> 00:44:25.260
finale of series 4 is the best in discoveries run and some of the

1020
00:44:25.260 --> 00:44:26.760
best Star Trek I've ever seen, I think.

1021
00:44:26.880 --> 00:44:30.480
Even Jammer, and you know what he thinks about Kursman Shrek.

1022
00:44:30.539 --> 00:44:33.900
Even he was given that 3s and 3 balls out of 10.

1023
00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:36.599
Well, I think he likes.

1024
00:44:36.659 --> 00:44:37.380
Yeah.

1025
00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:40.920
I think he likes science fiction, whereas I'm here for the soap

1026
00:44:40.920 --> 00:44:42.360
opera mostly.

1027
00:44:42.420 --> 00:44:45.179
But yeah, but no, this marries the two, though.

1028
00:44:45.239 --> 00:44:51.119
Yeah, but I think that the science fiction in, in that, you know

1029
00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:54.179
when they meet the 10C and try and communicate with them is

1030
00:44:54.179 --> 00:44:58.139
amazing, like, and visually, of course, it just looks stunning

1031
00:44:58.139 --> 00:45:03.659
like the 10CR spoilers, not guys in latex masks, right?

1032
00:45:03.719 --> 00:45:06.840
So it's properly weird and exciting.

1033
00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:08.280
That's right.

1034
00:45:08.340 --> 00:45:12.539
Turns out it was the wrong one, which is about them like

1035
00:45:12.539 --> 00:45:15.000
desperately trying to communicate with this thing.

1036
00:45:15.059 --> 00:45:15.599
Yeah.

1037
00:45:15.659 --> 00:45:16.320
Yeah.

1038
00:45:16.380 --> 00:45:19.079
In fact, there's several episodes that lead up to it.

1039
00:45:19.139 --> 00:45:22.980
They piece the bits of it together to get the communication to

1040
00:45:22.980 --> 00:45:23.219
happen.

1041
00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:24.420
And it's not McGuffins.

1042
00:45:24.480 --> 00:45:24.960
It's smart.

1043
00:45:25.019 --> 00:45:26.159
It's properly good.

1044
00:45:26.219 --> 00:45:27.179
Do you know what?

1045
00:45:27.239 --> 00:45:30.480
I actually do, you know, for a 2nd there, I actually could see all

1046
00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:32.340
the sort of CGI backdrop with him against it.

1047
00:45:32.400 --> 00:45:34.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1048
00:45:34.500 --> 00:45:35.340
No, no, don't get me wrong.

1049
00:45:35.400 --> 00:45:36.000
It's still great.

1050
00:45:36.059 --> 00:45:40.739
But most of the time you feel like they're on a planet, but now

1051
00:45:40.739 --> 00:45:42.300
you've seen the backdrop.

1052
00:45:42.360 --> 00:45:43.679
I think that they've got a wall.

1053
00:45:43.739 --> 00:45:47.460
Like, I think that they now have like, you know how there's the

1054
00:45:47.460 --> 00:45:48.239
Star Trek things.

1055
00:45:48.300 --> 00:45:49.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1056
00:45:49.980 --> 00:45:50.940
Star Wars uses it.

1057
00:45:51.000 --> 00:45:54.360
So I think they've got an effects wall and they use it in very

1058
00:45:54.360 --> 00:45:57.179
obviously, I think, in strange new worlds.

1059
00:45:57.239 --> 00:45:57.900
But I don't care.

1060
00:45:57.960 --> 00:45:59.639
I don't think they're shooting on a planet.

1061
00:45:59.699 --> 00:46:03.539
I want weird visuals like this because I think this looks bleak

1062
00:46:03.539 --> 00:46:08.400
and weird in a way that those Star Trek planets in early TNG

1063
00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:09.000
didn't.

1064
00:46:09.059 --> 00:46:10.079
There's something...

1065
00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:13.380
It's strange. low light.

1066
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:16.079
There wasn't even any depth to the light in the background, you

1067
00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:16.260
know?

1068
00:46:16.320 --> 00:46:18.659
With a few rocks to give it some depth.

1069
00:46:18.719 --> 00:46:22.800
It was like, you know, Doctor Who perspective shop set from the

1070
00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:23.219
80s.

1071
00:46:23.760 --> 00:46:28.079
Is, um, can I ask, is the episode where they communicate with the

1072
00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:28.739
tendency?

1073
00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:31.860
Is it as brilliant as that one, that Strangely World episode about

1074
00:46:31.860 --> 00:46:35.639
Ahura, where they were trying to communicate musically with that

1075
00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:35.880
alien?

1076
00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:40.860
Well, it doesn't have, it doesn't have...

1077
00:46:40.920 --> 00:46:42.059
It doesn't have Celia good.

1078
00:46:42.059 --> 00:46:49.500
The way they married the beauty of the visual concept, the

1079
00:46:49.500 --> 00:46:51.059
dialogue, the music.

1080
00:46:51.119 --> 00:46:54.780
It was just so that was just trekk out.

1081
00:46:54.840 --> 00:46:56.039
That was their 2nd bloody episode.

1082
00:46:56.099 --> 00:46:57.539
Yeah, yeah.

1083
00:46:57.659 --> 00:47:00.300
That was a little bit more romantic and lyrical than what happened

1084
00:47:00.300 --> 00:47:01.260
at the end of Discovery.

1085
00:47:01.619 --> 00:47:06.300
But it certainly reminded me of the end of Discovery Series 4.

1086
00:47:06.420 --> 00:47:09.119
I think Dharmok reminded me a bit of it as well.

1087
00:47:09.179 --> 00:47:12.119
But you've got something that's essentially incomprehensible and

1088
00:47:12.119 --> 00:47:13.380
how do you communicate?

1089
00:47:13.440 --> 00:47:15.780
I was about to say you can't go wrong with, you know, communicating

1090
00:47:15.780 --> 00:47:17.579
with aliens that are unknowable.

1091
00:47:17.699 --> 00:47:20.519
But then you have that episode of Voyager called the Void, where

1092
00:47:20.519 --> 00:47:27.360
the doctor creates these musical pads and they just go, yeah, and

1093
00:47:27.360 --> 00:47:28.199
it's really terrible.

1094
00:47:28.260 --> 00:47:32.400
It's not quite as beautiful as Celia Gooding humming on inside a

1095
00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:32.820
comma.

1096
00:47:33.719 --> 00:47:38.099
And so this is the bit which leads to their relationship being

1097
00:47:38.099 --> 00:47:38.940
about to break down.

1098
00:47:38.940 --> 00:47:42.000
And you can see her heartbroken because she's torn.

1099
00:47:42.059 --> 00:47:46.800
Obviously the right thing to do is to leave Felix to do what he

1100
00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:48.539
feels he needs to do.

1101
00:47:48.599 --> 00:47:50.820
Not to rob him with his agency, not...

1102
00:47:50.820 --> 00:47:51.300
Do you know what?

1103
00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:52.920
Enough people have died already.

1104
00:47:52.980 --> 00:47:53.880
That's exactly it.

1105
00:47:53.940 --> 00:47:55.019
His whole planet died.

1106
00:47:55.079 --> 00:47:58.139
He doesn't want to leave anything left to be killed by the anomaly

1107
00:47:58.139 --> 00:47:59.699
and he thinks it's wrong.

1108
00:47:59.760 --> 00:48:00.840
He's furious about it.

1109
00:48:00.900 --> 00:48:03.719
And look, look at her reaction.

1110
00:48:03.780 --> 00:48:08.099
You know, she does that teary reaction to lots of things

1111
00:48:08.099 --> 00:48:09.300
particularly in series two.

1112
00:48:09.360 --> 00:48:16.440
But here, you know, the guy, like Felix is sold as someone very

1113
00:48:16.440 --> 00:48:21.960
noble and wise by the quality of the performance, the guest

1114
00:48:21.960 --> 00:48:25.440
actor's performance, I think, is magnificent in what is a fairly

1115
00:48:25.440 --> 00:48:25.980
small part.

1116
00:48:26.039 --> 00:48:30.239
But I also think, um, I also think Sanique's reaction to him sells

1117
00:48:30.239 --> 00:48:30.840
that too.

1118
00:48:30.900 --> 00:48:32.820
Yeah, right.

1119
00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:37.739
I love the moment where he just walks out.

1120
00:48:37.800 --> 00:48:39.179
He's not having none of it.

1121
00:48:39.239 --> 00:48:40.260
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1122
00:48:40.320 --> 00:48:46.739
I love the moment, though, where she has to tell him that it is

1123
00:48:46.739 --> 00:48:49.980
going to come and it is going to destroy the asteroid.

1124
00:48:50.039 --> 00:48:51.000
Yeah, that's it.

1125
00:48:51.059 --> 00:48:52.860
Is Neil telling her that?

1126
00:48:52.920 --> 00:48:57.480
Is there actually an episode where we see it destroy books?

1127
00:48:57.539 --> 00:48:59.159
Well, it...

1128
00:48:59.219 --> 00:48:59.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1129
00:48:59.820 --> 00:49:00.719
Yeah, we've seen that already.

1130
00:49:00.780 --> 00:49:02.579
Yeah, I would see that.

1131
00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:03.659
Yeah.

1132
00:49:03.719 --> 00:49:07.440
And remember he had a brother and a nephew, I think, on the planet

1133
00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:08.519
in series three?

1134
00:49:08.579 --> 00:49:11.280
And yeah, yeah, that's right.

1135
00:49:11.340 --> 00:49:13.019
And so there's a whole heap about that.

1136
00:49:13.079 --> 00:49:20.039
And there's an incredible episode about his grief where the space

1137
00:49:20.039 --> 00:49:26.400
problem is a metaphor for what it's like for Michael, having to

1138
00:49:26.400 --> 00:49:28.619
just let him feel his grief.

1139
00:49:28.679 --> 00:49:30.539
See, this is beautiful, isn't it?

1140
00:49:30.599 --> 00:49:31.559
This is beautiful.

1141
00:49:31.619 --> 00:49:35.699
So he, she's got a cone of silence like they have on get smart, but

1142
00:49:35.699 --> 00:49:36.960
he says, don't put it up.

1143
00:49:37.019 --> 00:49:38.699
Let everyone hear what I have to say.

1144
00:49:38.760 --> 00:49:43.019
And this is that tragic backstory speech.

1145
00:49:43.079 --> 00:49:44.340
Yeah.

1146
00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:48.539
But I think it's really good because it's not florid.

1147
00:49:48.599 --> 00:49:50.460
It's really straightforward.

1148
00:49:50.519 --> 00:49:52.619
It's just very bare.

1149
00:49:52.679 --> 00:49:56.219
And then just watching these people react, watching him say it.

1150
00:49:56.280 --> 00:49:57.599
It's such a good performance.

1151
00:49:57.659 --> 00:50:00.000
The lines are so straightforward.

1152
00:50:00.059 --> 00:50:02.400
Oh, he's not, and he isn't delivering it, you know.

1153
00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:05.820
And look at, look at Sanika's reaction, isn't he?

1154
00:50:05.880 --> 00:50:06.780
Yeah, yeah.

1155
00:50:06.840 --> 00:50:12.239
This is this is a fact I did this thing. yeah I killed him.

1156
00:50:12.300 --> 00:50:13.980
His daughter was in the next room.

1157
00:50:14.039 --> 00:50:18.360
And then he says, like, he's had enough time to sit and think

1158
00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:18.659
about it.

1159
00:50:18.719 --> 00:50:20.340
The daughter's a young woman now.

1160
00:50:20.400 --> 00:50:21.719
We'll see her later.

1161
00:50:23.039 --> 00:50:25.079
It's so good.

1162
00:50:25.139 --> 00:50:26.400
It's so good.

1163
00:50:27.539 --> 00:50:30.300
And look how beautiful that shot is too.

1164
00:50:30.360 --> 00:50:33.780
Yeah, the sun's setting behind him.

1165
00:50:33.840 --> 00:50:35.820
Oh, they think they're stars.

1166
00:50:35.880 --> 00:50:38.820
I mean, this thing will crash into. that wall, Nathan, you know.

1167
00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:41.039
I think I can see that. wall effect.

1168
00:50:41.280 --> 00:50:44.039
So I came back around to book very quickly.

1169
00:50:44.099 --> 00:50:47.880
It's one of my, and everybody's long-hailed criticisms of Star

1170
00:50:47.880 --> 00:50:51.420
Trek is that terrible things happen to people and then come the

1171
00:50:51.420 --> 00:50:54.900
next episode, everything starts again, you know, and this has

1172
00:50:54.900 --> 00:50:57.119
happened quite a few times, especially in 90s straight, when

1173
00:50:57.119 --> 00:50:59.579
terrible things happen to people and they're like, well, you turn

1174
00:50:59.579 --> 00:51:00.119
into a thing.

1175
00:51:00.119 --> 00:51:02.039
There's a new anomaly for us to solve, you know.

1176
00:51:02.340 --> 00:51:06.960
But with book and this plays out across the whole season, you

1177
00:51:06.960 --> 00:51:07.139
know?

1178
00:51:07.199 --> 00:51:08.699
The way the stories are told now.

1179
00:51:08.760 --> 00:51:10.440
And I'm hoping it's the scale to them.

1180
00:51:10.500 --> 00:51:11.940
By the end of the series.

1181
00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:17.639
He gets to come to terms with what's happened and you can move on

1182
00:51:17.639 --> 00:51:18.000
from it.

1183
00:51:18.059 --> 00:51:19.860
But I'm sure it doesn't feel rushed.

1184
00:51:19.980 --> 00:51:21.599
No not at all.

1185
00:51:21.659 --> 00:51:24.239
That was a beautifully strange shot too.

1186
00:51:24.300 --> 00:51:26.820
So the DMZ, the DMZ.

1187
00:51:26.880 --> 00:51:27.659
Now I'm calling it that.

1188
00:51:27.719 --> 00:51:32.760
The DMA doesn't the DMA doesn't destroy it directly.

1189
00:51:32.880 --> 00:51:37.199
It pushes it into the sun using the like gravitational waves from

1190
00:51:37.199 --> 00:51:38.519
it pushing into the sun.

1191
00:51:38.579 --> 00:51:40.260
It's not just saying hello, is it?

1192
00:51:40.320 --> 00:51:42.119
That would be absolutely chilling.

1193
00:51:42.900 --> 00:51:45.599
I'm not going to say...

1194
00:51:45.659 --> 00:51:46.320
And imagine that.

1195
00:51:46.320 --> 00:51:49.199
It's just trying to, it's holding out his hand and destroying

1196
00:51:49.199 --> 00:51:49.679
planets.

1197
00:51:49.739 --> 00:51:51.000
That would be amazing.

1198
00:51:52.500 --> 00:51:58.139
Oh, now this guy, here comes this asshole.

1199
00:51:58.199 --> 00:52:04.019
And she is absolutely saying, I am in charge of this ship and you

1200
00:52:04.019 --> 00:52:07.739
are the sovereign magistrate of something that isn't here

1201
00:52:07.739 --> 00:52:08.159
anymore.

1202
00:52:08.219 --> 00:52:11.400
So fuck you, you monster.

1203
00:52:11.460 --> 00:52:15.000
And the way that she ends the speech, you know, let's hope that

1204
00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:20.039
you find people more compassionate than you were, a society that's

1205
00:52:20.039 --> 00:52:21.780
more just than yours was.

1206
00:52:21.840 --> 00:52:23.280
And look at her.

1207
00:52:23.340 --> 00:52:24.179
She's so strong.

1208
00:52:24.300 --> 00:52:26.400
She specifically says, doesn't she?

1209
00:52:26.460 --> 00:52:28.380
You'll be arriving there as a refugee.

1210
00:52:28.440 --> 00:52:29.760
Yep.

1211
00:52:29.820 --> 00:52:31.380
Oh yeah, here we go, yeah.

1212
00:52:31.440 --> 00:52:32.699
Yeah.

1213
00:52:32.760 --> 00:52:34.019
So good.

1214
00:52:34.139 --> 00:52:38.639
I hope they're kind to you, the society society that you created.

1215
00:52:38.760 --> 00:52:40.920
A fairer society.

1216
00:52:40.980 --> 00:52:44.579
I mean, that's very, that's very pointed as well. isn't it?

1217
00:52:44.639 --> 00:52:49.500
Discovery is not beyond making, you know, a bit of criticism about

1218
00:52:49.500 --> 00:52:52.079
how the world handles certain things.

1219
00:52:52.139 --> 00:52:56.340
I think Kurtzman Trek is absolutely that, you know, like we're in

1220
00:52:56.340 --> 00:52:58.739
a post kind of, here's my scene.

1221
00:52:58.800 --> 00:52:59.340
Oh, sorry.

1222
00:52:59.400 --> 00:53:00.360
Are the 2 of them...

1223
00:53:00.420 --> 00:53:01.139
It's beautiful.

1224
00:53:01.199 --> 00:53:04.139
It's just nothing like sensational about it.

1225
00:53:04.199 --> 00:53:05.159
That's what I like.

1226
00:53:05.219 --> 00:53:06.059
It's just so.

1227
00:53:07.320 --> 00:53:08.280
This is what we do, you know?

1228
00:53:08.340 --> 00:53:09.599
We go to bed at the end of the day.

1229
00:53:09.659 --> 00:53:11.099
We talk about our day.

1230
00:53:11.159 --> 00:53:13.739
Sometimes we open up. sometimes we just have a hug.

1231
00:53:14.099 --> 00:53:20.219
But we've never seen that on Star Trek, we've never been included

1232
00:53:20.219 --> 00:53:21.059
in that.

1233
00:53:21.119 --> 00:53:24.300
I mean, it was... with Bashir and Garak every week, but we just

1234
00:53:24.300 --> 00:53:25.380
never saw it, you know?

1235
00:53:25.380 --> 00:53:26.159
Well, not on screen.

1236
00:53:26.579 --> 00:53:28.800
You know, like they were just too cowardly to show it on screen

1237
00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:32.159
but To be fair to Ira Bear, he did say that.

1238
00:53:32.219 --> 00:53:36.360
He said that in that documentary, we should have done it. fine.

1239
00:53:36.840 --> 00:53:38.579
And that's true.

1240
00:53:38.579 --> 00:53:39.900
That's why...

1241
00:53:39.900 --> 00:53:40.860
No, no, no.

1242
00:53:40.920 --> 00:53:41.940
It absolutely is.

1243
00:53:41.940 --> 00:53:43.619
It absolutely is with everybody.

1244
00:53:43.679 --> 00:53:45.480
People can say, look down.

1245
00:53:45.539 --> 00:53:46.380
Look at their eyes.

1246
00:53:46.500 --> 00:53:48.719
Yeah, it's so good, isn't it?

1247
00:53:48.780 --> 00:53:51.719
It's like, because it was like jadeways tell, you know, you always

1248
00:53:51.719 --> 00:53:54.659
stick your finger up your left nostril when you're telling a lie

1249
00:53:54.659 --> 00:53:55.139
or something.

1250
00:53:55.199 --> 00:53:57.059
You always have bullshit.

1251
00:53:57.059 --> 00:53:57.780
That's what you say.

1252
00:53:57.840 --> 00:54:02.099
She's never fit with her fucking combat. yeah.

1253
00:54:02.159 --> 00:54:04.860
No, that's a proper tell that people actually do.

1254
00:54:04.920 --> 00:54:05.880
They look away for a second.

1255
00:54:06.179 --> 00:54:11.340
I mean, no, example, Voyager and Voyager banter, but...

1256
00:54:11.400 --> 00:54:15.300
But even this is, you know, again, just using sort of 21st century

1257
00:54:15.300 --> 00:54:16.500
slang and stuff.

1258
00:54:16.559 --> 00:54:17.820
Look at us.

1259
00:54:17.880 --> 00:54:20.760
We jumped a 1000 years in the future and we're both still assholes

1260
00:54:21.360 --> 00:54:23.699
can't figure out shit now.

1261
00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:24.239
Yeah.

1262
00:54:24.300 --> 00:54:25.800
Yeah, there you go.

1263
00:54:25.860 --> 00:54:28.679
I love swearing on Star Trek. working too hard.

1264
00:54:28.739 --> 00:54:31.500
And they're not spending enough time together and they get this

1265
00:54:31.500 --> 00:54:32.519
moment at the end of the day.

1266
00:54:32.579 --> 00:54:33.960
Like, this, I've done this.

1267
00:54:34.019 --> 00:54:34.980
This is me, you know?

1268
00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:36.000
Yeah.

1269
00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:38.400
And it's not, you're right. not what I expect to see in Star

1270
00:54:38.400 --> 00:54:38.760
Trek.

1271
00:54:38.820 --> 00:54:44.340
And now here is this scene in the in the lift and Zora, I would

1272
00:54:44.340 --> 00:54:46.440
like to offer you my condolences.

1273
00:54:46.440 --> 00:54:49.980
I can tell from micro inflections in your voice that you're

1274
00:54:49.980 --> 00:54:51.179
experiencing sorrow.

1275
00:54:51.239 --> 00:54:52.260
Isn't that amazing?

1276
00:54:52.500 --> 00:54:54.900
And just leaves to that.

1277
00:54:54.960 --> 00:54:58.619
Oh, the dialogue scenes in that episode we watched.

1278
00:54:58.679 --> 00:54:59.519
Oh, fabulous.

1279
00:54:59.579 --> 00:55:02.219
And she doesn't overreact to it.

1280
00:55:02.280 --> 00:55:07.619
She's curious and a little bit wary, but, you know, it does become

1281
00:55:07.619 --> 00:55:11.579
a massive plot point in 2 episodes time, and we're only just

1282
00:55:11.579 --> 00:55:12.360
discovering about it.

1283
00:55:12.420 --> 00:55:17.159
Now, we've discovered that Zora is wise and is is self-aware and

1284
00:55:17.159 --> 00:55:17.880
stuff like that.

1285
00:55:17.940 --> 00:55:19.260
That's something that's been coming on.

1286
00:55:19.320 --> 00:55:22.800
But now that we know that she can experience emotions as well.

1287
00:55:22.860 --> 00:55:27.239
May I say extra points for the ultra dramatic lighting in that

1288
00:55:27.239 --> 00:55:28.019
turbo lift?

1289
00:55:28.079 --> 00:55:31.679
Yeah, beautiful. that's what we want That's what we're here for.

1290
00:55:31.739 --> 00:55:32.400
I love it.

1291
00:55:32.460 --> 00:55:34.500
You're normally quite critical, that sort of thing, but I love

1292
00:55:34.500 --> 00:55:34.679
it.

1293
00:55:34.739 --> 00:55:37.320
No, there's reflective surfaces here.

1294
00:55:37.380 --> 00:55:41.280
And if you want a well-lit starship, you always have strange new

1295
00:55:41.280 --> 00:55:44.519
worlds, which is very brightly lit with shiny white walls.

1296
00:55:44.519 --> 00:55:47.460
You're gonna say to me when I say this, but look, that's sub

1297
00:55:46.800 --> 00:55:49.739
effort they've got there, that tiny bit of makeup on that woman's

1298
00:55:49.739 --> 00:55:49.980
face.

1299
00:55:50.280 --> 00:55:56.880
So it's basically an actress with 2 almost horns on the side of

1300
00:55:56.880 --> 00:55:57.179
it.

1301
00:55:57.239 --> 00:55:57.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1302
00:55:57.960 --> 00:55:59.820
No, well he had little ridges as well.

1303
00:55:59.880 --> 00:56:06.000
So this and again, you know, this is slightly, I don't know.

1304
00:56:06.059 --> 00:56:08.219
I think this is sort of strange and beautiful.

1305
00:56:08.340 --> 00:56:11.579
And, you know, she's clearly much, much older.

1306
00:56:11.639 --> 00:56:13.980
Felix has clearly been in prison for years now.

1307
00:56:14.039 --> 00:56:15.599
He's a middle-aged man.

1308
00:56:15.659 --> 00:56:19.380
This must have happened decades ago and she's a young woman and

1309
00:56:19.380 --> 00:56:21.719
she says my father was killed when I was a little girl.

1310
00:56:21.780 --> 00:56:24.420
And obviously that's changed things for her.

1311
00:56:24.480 --> 00:56:29.400
But, you know, that, that he had a hand that Felix had a hand in

1312
00:56:29.400 --> 00:56:33.119
doing that, that he made sure that that happened before he died.

1313
00:56:33.179 --> 00:56:36.420
He couldn't do anything about the killing, but he could do

1314
00:56:36.420 --> 00:56:37.559
something about the robbery.

1315
00:56:37.619 --> 00:56:42.659
I think it's so humane and so it's why I'm watching Star Trek.

1316
00:56:42.719 --> 00:56:47.099
Oh, look, it's Anika as she leaves that scene. the special effect

1317
00:56:47.099 --> 00:56:49.860
of the family tree with the face.

1318
00:56:49.920 --> 00:56:52.980
It's just another great example of what they can do now, you

1319
00:56:52.980 --> 00:56:53.219
know?

1320
00:56:53.280 --> 00:56:54.179
Yeah, yeah.

1321
00:56:54.239 --> 00:56:56.460
Oh, so here we go.

1322
00:56:56.519 --> 00:56:57.840
The lights are down.

1323
00:56:57.900 --> 00:56:59.099
Yeah.

1324
00:56:59.340 --> 00:57:00.840
Yes.

1325
00:57:00.900 --> 00:57:04.139
Well, this is nice because this is 2 separate blocks.

1326
00:57:04.139 --> 00:57:06.780
What are coming together at the end as well. that's right.

1327
00:57:06.840 --> 00:57:13.260
So, so Taka and book have each had their own plot and and now

1328
00:57:13.260 --> 00:57:16.019
we're kind of rejoining the main plot, aren't we?

1329
00:57:16.079 --> 00:57:20.579
So this is all going to feed into our big arc plot.

1330
00:57:20.639 --> 00:57:25.860
So, you know, we've learned a bit more about Taka and how Taka

1331
00:57:25.860 --> 00:57:28.679
knows how the DMA works.

1332
00:57:28.739 --> 00:57:32.099
We've learned a bit more about how book is reacting to the

1333
00:57:32.099 --> 00:57:33.360
destruction of his planet.

1334
00:57:33.420 --> 00:57:38.579
And now we see these 2 together and obviously, as we saw in 2

1335
00:57:38.579 --> 00:57:39.360
episodes time.

1336
00:57:39.420 --> 00:57:45.360
They head off together to destroy the 10 Z. I get 10C.

1337
00:57:45.420 --> 00:57:46.139
Oh my god.

1338
00:57:46.199 --> 00:57:48.780
I've literally just realised it's either fellow, the cliffhanger

1339
00:57:48.780 --> 00:57:49.800
ending of that other episode.

1340
00:57:49.860 --> 00:57:50.940
Is it those 2 that go?

1341
00:57:51.000 --> 00:57:51.300
Yeah, yeah.

1342
00:57:51.360 --> 00:57:54.059
Honestly, sometimes I'm really dense, aren't I?

1343
00:57:54.119 --> 00:57:54.840
Yeah.

1344
00:57:54.900 --> 00:57:57.059
And that's a great shot.

1345
00:57:57.119 --> 00:57:57.659
Remember that?

1346
00:57:57.659 --> 00:58:01.019
Where, where, um, Saneek was just standing in the shuttle bay and

1347
00:58:01.019 --> 00:58:01.679
she just goes, shit.

1348
00:58:01.860 --> 00:58:06.239
I admired it because it was all, it wasn't really a Jeopardy

1349
00:58:06.239 --> 00:58:06.960
Cliffhanger.

1350
00:58:07.019 --> 00:58:11.099
It was this is, you know, they're off to course some shit now. and

1351
00:58:11.099 --> 00:58:12.300
she's going to have to go after him.

1352
00:58:12.360 --> 00:58:13.619
It was low key.

1353
00:58:13.679 --> 00:58:17.460
But I like a low-key cliffhanger that promises a lot.

1354
00:58:17.519 --> 00:58:20.760
Remember the end of series 3 of DS Night where he goes, you're too

1355
00:58:20.760 --> 00:58:21.059
late.

1356
00:58:21.119 --> 00:58:24.239
We're everywhere about the changelings, you know?

1357
00:58:24.300 --> 00:58:25.260
And it promises a lot.

1358
00:58:25.320 --> 00:58:26.639
Yeah.

1359
00:58:26.699 --> 00:58:29.219
Oh, they pick it up really perfectly at the beginning of the next

1360
00:58:29.219 --> 00:58:29.940
season too.

1361
00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:33.960
It just feels like it's just all firing like on false cylinders

1362
00:58:33.960 --> 00:58:34.800
you know, it's...

1363
00:58:35.159 --> 00:58:39.059
They're just making very, very good Star Trek.

1364
00:58:39.119 --> 00:58:41.219
Yeah, I think so too.

1365
00:58:41.280 --> 00:58:45.420
It's a, you know, they're making a sort of Star Trek.

1366
00:58:45.480 --> 00:58:45.780
I like.

1367
00:58:45.840 --> 00:58:47.400
Yeah, yeah.

1368
00:58:47.460 --> 00:58:50.219
Well, they're making the sort of Star Trek, you know, like if you

1369
00:58:50.219 --> 00:58:53.519
like Star Trek and you're not sort of an angry white supremacist.

1370
00:58:53.579 --> 00:58:55.199
I think there's a Star Trek.

1371
00:58:55.260 --> 00:58:59.039
There's a Star Trek out there for you, I think.

1372
00:58:59.099 --> 00:59:02.820
You know, each Star Trek does things a little bit differently. each

1373
00:59:02.820 --> 00:59:04.380
has a different approach.

1374
00:59:04.440 --> 00:59:06.900
You're an angry white supremacist.

1375
00:59:06.960 --> 00:59:08.820
Captain Archer is waiting for you.

1376
00:59:08.880 --> 00:59:11.340
He'll apologise every now and again.

1377
00:59:11.519 --> 00:59:15.539
So he does the thing on the back of his neck, and there was an

1378
00:59:15.539 --> 00:59:20.340
episode in series 3 where book was captured by the Emerald Chain

1379
00:59:20.340 --> 00:59:25.559
uh, and held in a prison camp, and he, too, had that uh, thing on

1380
00:59:25.559 --> 00:59:27.960
his neck that, you know, the guards could use to blow your head

1381
00:59:27.960 --> 00:59:29.219
off if you didn't do the right thing.

1382
00:59:29.280 --> 00:59:32.639
Is everyone going to tell you all that green diva was all...

1383
00:59:32.699 --> 00:59:33.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1384
00:59:33.480 --> 00:59:35.579
Yeah, she's an Orion.

1385
00:59:35.639 --> 00:59:36.480
Don't be racist.

1386
00:59:36.539 --> 00:59:38.639
Tandy's green too, you know.

1387
00:59:40.920 --> 00:59:45.780
Oh, no, I was about to say we don't see many Orion men, but we had

1388
00:59:45.780 --> 00:59:47.639
that man in the serene squad, didn't we?

1389
00:59:47.699 --> 00:59:49.139
Yeah, yeah.

1390
00:59:49.199 --> 00:59:49.679
Yep, yep.

1391
00:59:49.739 --> 00:59:50.159
Yep.

1392
00:59:50.219 --> 00:59:51.719
The Irish Orion guy.

1393
00:59:51.780 --> 00:59:57.780
It was a pirate. awesome That was that was very strong.

1394
00:59:57.840 --> 01:00:00.300
And I don't think I've said it already.

1395
01:00:00.360 --> 01:00:03.300
I don't think it's anywhere near the strongest of the year.

1396
01:00:03.420 --> 01:00:04.619
So, no.

1397
01:00:04.679 --> 01:00:09.119
I kind of shows you what we're playing with here in series 4 of

1398
01:00:09.119 --> 01:00:09.780
Discovery.

1399
01:00:09.840 --> 01:00:15.360
Well, as we speak, the series 5 trailer came out maybe a week ago

1400
01:00:15.360 --> 01:00:18.900
and it looks kind of galaxy spanning and has interesting new

1401
01:00:18.900 --> 01:00:21.719
characters and all sorts of things going on, and I'm really

1402
01:00:21.719 --> 01:00:22.679
excited by it.

1403
01:00:22.739 --> 01:00:25.679
And I'm in that sort of weird position where I'm excited for

1404
01:00:25.679 --> 01:00:27.059
series 3 of Picard.

1405
01:00:27.119 --> 01:00:32.699
I'm enjoying the new series of lower decks right now.

1406
01:00:32.760 --> 01:00:34.139
Prodigies coming along very soon.

1407
01:00:34.199 --> 01:00:37.679
Just getting a strange new world of Star Trek.

1408
01:00:37.800 --> 01:00:38.519
Yeah, yeah.

1409
01:00:38.579 --> 01:00:40.920
There's not one of them that I dislike.

1410
01:00:40.980 --> 01:00:42.119
Do you know what?

1411
01:00:42.119 --> 01:00:44.400
Your favourite showrunners coming back to Doctor Who as well.

1412
01:00:44.460 --> 01:00:46.320
I mean, you're just in...

1413
01:00:46.380 --> 01:00:49.440
In the land of God's TV wise right now, aren't you?

1414
01:00:49.500 --> 01:00:50.159
exactly right.

1415
01:00:50.760 --> 01:00:56.159
I mean, I do wonder, I know, I'm always a cynical one maybe.

1416
01:00:56.219 --> 01:01:01.139
I do wonder if maybe discovery might have peaked in this year, but

1417
01:01:01.139 --> 01:01:02.639
what a peak if it has.

1418
01:01:03.300 --> 01:01:07.920
I think though, like Star Trek, The Next Generation, it took 2

1419
01:01:07.920 --> 01:01:12.000
years to work out what it was all about, and it is only making, you

1420
01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:13.800
know, 10 to 13 episodes a year.

1421
01:01:13.860 --> 01:01:18.119
I think they may even only be doing 10 for series five, but I

1422
01:01:18.119 --> 01:01:19.139
can't remember for sure.

1423
01:01:19.199 --> 01:01:25.019
So they're not kind of milking it dry, even though there is on

1424
01:01:25.019 --> 01:01:28.679
average a new Star Trek episode every week these days.

1425
01:01:29.400 --> 01:01:33.119
Because they're also different and they have different creative

1426
01:01:33.119 --> 01:01:35.880
teams, even though you've got sort of Kurtzman and Goldman and

1427
01:01:35.880 --> 01:01:39.840
stuff like that, kind of working on a lot of them.

1428
01:01:39.900 --> 01:01:43.920
I think there's kind of fresh, fun new things happening in all of

1429
01:01:43.920 --> 01:01:44.159
them.

1430
01:01:44.219 --> 01:01:48.420
But I think for me as well, I'm going to make one last parallel

1431
01:01:48.420 --> 01:01:50.699
with DS9 with Discovery.

1432
01:01:50.699 --> 01:01:54.719
And that is, I think DS9 is one of those rare shows and it's the

1433
01:01:54.719 --> 01:01:59.760
only Star Trek shows at this point where I think every season it

1434
01:01:59.760 --> 01:02:00.539
got stronger.

1435
01:02:00.659 --> 01:02:01.739
Yeah.

1436
01:02:01.800 --> 01:02:06.599
And I certainly don't think that of TNG or Voyager, because they

1437
01:02:06.599 --> 01:02:09.900
both limped to a climax in their scene.

1438
01:02:09.960 --> 01:02:13.260
And let's fucking pray we don't get a series 7 of Discovery, like

1439
01:02:13.260 --> 01:02:18.420
series 7 at TNG with, you know, Thurnham masturbating off to a

1440
01:02:18.420 --> 01:02:19.079
romantic ghost.

1441
01:02:19.559 --> 01:02:21.659
I think that's not going to happen.

1442
01:02:21.719 --> 01:02:23.340
I think you what, she'd say.

1443
01:02:23.340 --> 01:02:24.239
They're not milking it.

1444
01:02:24.300 --> 01:02:25.019
She would sell it.

1445
01:02:25.559 --> 01:02:30.360
I mean, if you're not doing 26 episodes a year, that makes it

1446
01:02:30.360 --> 01:02:35.820
easier not to kind of strangle the duds or the potential duds, and

1447
01:02:35.820 --> 01:02:39.780
you know, to keep on the level of quality. that is true.

1448
01:02:39.840 --> 01:02:40.619
That is true.

1449
01:02:40.679 --> 01:02:42.599
We love it all, you know, even the shit.

1450
01:02:42.719 --> 01:02:45.360
Well, discovery, certainly, I think.

1451
01:02:45.420 --> 01:02:49.380
You know, it started for you strong for me, weak.

1452
01:02:49.440 --> 01:02:53.519
But I think with each subsequent season, they've just, they've

1453
01:02:53.519 --> 01:02:55.019
figured out what they want to do.

1454
01:02:55.079 --> 01:02:58.440
It took them quite a while to sort of be into a shape that they

1455
01:02:58.440 --> 01:03:03.239
were happy with, um, rebooting it twice, effectively before

1456
01:03:03.239 --> 01:03:03.780
getting there.

1457
01:03:03.840 --> 01:03:04.440
Yeah, yeah.

1458
01:03:04.440 --> 01:03:10.559
Um, And I can only, like, hope that in the future, even better.

1459
01:03:14.519 --> 01:03:18.480
All right, we've reached the end of the episode, and it's time for

1460
01:03:18.480 --> 01:03:23.219
us to choose our next Star Trek adventure, so Joe is on untitled

1461
01:03:23.219 --> 01:03:28.679
Star Trek project.com slash randomiser, and tell us what series

1462
01:03:28.679 --> 01:03:29.760
you're choosing from.

1463
01:03:29.820 --> 01:03:32.159
It's gonna be the animated series.

1464
01:03:32.219 --> 01:03:35.519
No, I'm going the predictable route of choosing all of them

1465
01:03:35.519 --> 01:03:35.760
again.

1466
01:03:35.820 --> 01:03:36.840
I just love it.

1467
01:03:36.900 --> 01:03:39.960
I love it every time I press the button, it just goes some totally

1468
01:03:39.960 --> 01:03:40.679
round.

1469
01:03:40.800 --> 01:03:42.119
Strange and new.

1470
01:03:42.179 --> 01:03:43.860
Strange and new.

1471
01:03:43.920 --> 01:03:44.340
Okay.

1472
01:03:44.400 --> 01:03:46.739
Well let's see if it is going to be strange and new.

1473
01:03:46.800 --> 01:03:48.900
I'm pressing now.

1474
01:03:49.019 --> 01:03:49.739
Oh my god.

1475
01:03:49.800 --> 01:03:52.380
Oh no, we can't.

1476
01:03:52.440 --> 01:03:53.820
Is it threshold?

1477
01:03:53.880 --> 01:03:58.380
Your random Star Trek Ding Space 9 episode is season one, episode

1478
01:03:58.380 --> 01:04:01.500
10, move along home.

1479
01:04:04.860 --> 01:04:09.239
Oh, no, it's so bad. that you kind of think, what if we never did

1480
01:04:09.239 --> 01:04:09.539
that?

1481
01:04:09.539 --> 01:04:11.579
If we rolled again.

1482
01:04:11.639 --> 01:04:13.199
No, we can't do all the dance.

1483
01:04:13.199 --> 01:04:14.579
We've done some rosa already.

1484
01:04:14.639 --> 01:04:15.900
That's true.

1485
01:04:15.960 --> 01:04:16.980
Alamari.

1486
01:04:17.039 --> 01:04:18.900
Yeah, I'll do...

1487
01:04:18.960 --> 01:04:20.579
She's ridiculous.

1488
01:04:20.639 --> 01:04:25.079
They have no idea what they're doing. so bad What was it?

1489
01:04:25.079 --> 01:04:26.159
It's only a game.

1490
01:04:27.179 --> 01:04:28.619
Wow.

1491
01:04:29.159 --> 01:04:31.920
All right, let's try again, shall we?

1492
01:04:31.980 --> 01:04:33.059
Okay.

1493
01:04:33.119 --> 01:04:36.960
Your random Star Trek Voyager episode is season seven.

1494
01:04:37.019 --> 01:04:38.639
Oh, it's 2 parter, again.

1495
01:04:38.880 --> 01:04:42.780
Season seven, episode 17, workforce part two.

1496
01:04:43.199 --> 01:04:47.579
So I remember workforce really well, and it's kind of a little bit

1497
01:04:47.579 --> 01:04:55.860
yeah, it's like, there's a bit early on in the Odyssey where they

1498
01:04:55.860 --> 01:04:58.980
arrive at the land of the Lotus Eaters, and some of his men eat

1499
01:04:58.980 --> 01:05:01.619
the Lotus, and they just want to stay behind and just live a

1500
01:05:01.619 --> 01:05:02.219
normal life.

1501
01:05:02.280 --> 01:05:06.539
And Odysseus grabs them and just forcibly drags them back so that

1502
01:05:06.539 --> 01:05:09.059
they still continue their quest home to Ithaca.

1503
01:05:09.239 --> 01:05:11.340
And workforce just always reminded me of that.

1504
01:05:11.400 --> 01:05:14.639
It's kind of like, here they are, just living a normal life under

1505
01:05:14.639 --> 01:05:21.000
kind of late capitalism or whatever in a space office and they

1506
01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:24.119
need to be rescued from having a normal, ordinary, happy life in

1507
01:05:24.119 --> 01:05:26.880
order to resume their miserable journey home.

1508
01:05:27.360 --> 01:05:28.980
What do you think?

1509
01:05:29.039 --> 01:05:34.019
I just remember it being an astonishingly competent 2 parter in

1510
01:05:34.019 --> 01:05:36.539
what is a pretty shoddy final year.

1511
01:05:36.599 --> 01:05:39.539
Well, unfortunately, I've already pressed the button again.

1512
01:05:39.599 --> 01:05:40.980
So it can't be that one.

1513
01:05:41.039 --> 01:05:44.400
Although I do hope we do cover that at some point because it is it

1514
01:05:44.400 --> 01:05:44.880
is very good.

1515
01:05:44.940 --> 01:05:50.519
There's a planet side plot and there's a shit-based plot and

1516
01:05:50.519 --> 01:05:52.860
they're both really good and they're both heading in the same

1517
01:05:52.860 --> 01:05:53.219
direction.

1518
01:05:53.280 --> 01:05:55.679
It's really quite smart.

1519
01:05:55.739 --> 01:05:58.559
However, and this is the one we're going to do.

1520
01:05:58.619 --> 01:06:04.139
And I want to do it because it is the grimmest, darkest

1521
01:06:04.139 --> 01:06:09.420
potentially most cynical episode of Star Trek that has ever been

1522
01:06:09.420 --> 01:06:10.260
broadcast.

1523
01:06:10.320 --> 01:06:11.280
Can you guess what that is?

1524
01:06:11.699 --> 01:06:13.440
Angel one.

1525
01:06:15.300 --> 01:06:19.139
No, I can't bear to look at Rocker's hairy chest coming out of

1526
01:06:19.139 --> 01:06:19.920
that timfoil.

1527
01:06:20.039 --> 01:06:23.699
Oh, I had a bit of a sexual awakening seeing Riker's hairy chest, I

1528
01:06:23.699 --> 01:06:24.059
have to say.

1529
01:06:24.119 --> 01:06:26.400
That's an important developmental moment for me.

1530
01:06:26.460 --> 01:06:28.260
Okay, like a hairy chest.

1531
01:06:28.320 --> 01:06:30.780
I don't know why we think you'll be doing a lot of series 7

1532
01:06:30.780 --> 01:06:31.920
episodes of every show.

1533
01:06:31.980 --> 01:06:33.119
Everything.

1534
01:06:33.179 --> 01:06:33.539
Yeah.

1535
01:06:33.539 --> 01:06:35.340
So what is it?

1536
01:06:35.340 --> 01:06:42.000
is D Space 9, series 7, episode 8, the Siege of AR 558.

1537
01:06:42.360 --> 01:06:46.739
I'm sorry, I think this is an extraordinary episode.

1538
01:06:46.800 --> 01:06:48.539
This is Winrich Colt...

1539
01:06:48.659 --> 01:06:50.280
Oh, no, I just say it, Win Ridge.

1540
01:06:50.280 --> 01:06:51.059
Colby?

1541
01:06:51.059 --> 01:06:54.480
I think it's his best direction in Star Trek.

1542
01:06:55.079 --> 01:06:59.039
It's got Billy Mummy from Lost in Space in it.

1543
01:06:59.099 --> 01:07:01.679
It's the episode where, obviously, they're good.

1544
01:07:01.679 --> 01:07:05.219
Not everyone leaves with the same number of legs as when they

1545
01:07:05.219 --> 01:07:05.760
arrived.

1546
01:07:05.820 --> 01:07:06.599
Is that right?

1547
01:07:06.659 --> 01:07:08.519
is astonishing, yeah.

1548
01:07:08.579 --> 01:07:10.619
Oh, Aaron Isenberg.

1549
01:07:10.679 --> 01:07:11.579
Yeah.

1550
01:07:11.699 --> 01:07:13.800
I watched I watched another one.

1551
01:07:13.860 --> 01:07:14.579
What's the one?

1552
01:07:14.639 --> 01:07:18.900
Is it Nor the Battle to the Strong, which is like, like, I just

1553
01:07:18.900 --> 01:07:23.400
found it kind of unpleasant and not very Star Treky.

1554
01:07:23.460 --> 01:07:25.500
I think this, I don't know.

1555
01:07:25.559 --> 01:07:26.820
Maybe I'll be wowed by these.

1556
01:07:26.880 --> 01:07:30.119
I certainly remember it, but I don't really remember how I feel

1557
01:07:30.119 --> 01:07:31.260
about it.

1558
01:07:31.320 --> 01:07:35.699
This came out and there was an incredible reaction for this

1559
01:07:35.699 --> 01:07:36.119
episode.

1560
01:07:36.179 --> 01:07:39.780
Like this was what a lot of people considered to be the best of

1561
01:07:39.780 --> 01:07:40.800
the last season.

1562
01:07:40.920 --> 01:07:43.320
I know you're going to say that to take me out to the hollow suite

1563
01:07:43.320 --> 01:07:44.699
or bad a bean.

1564
01:07:44.760 --> 01:07:47.579
But let's remember, they're bringing these episodes out in the

1565
01:07:47.579 --> 01:07:48.059
same year.

1566
01:07:48.119 --> 01:07:52.019
Like, there's a bit of diversity and they make the very savvy

1567
01:07:52.019 --> 01:07:59.219
choice deliberately to send none of like the war veterans down to

1568
01:07:59.219 --> 01:08:00.239
AR 558.

1569
01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:01.559
So it's not wharf.

1570
01:08:01.619 --> 01:08:02.579
It's not Kira.

1571
01:08:02.639 --> 01:08:04.679
It's not the people that know how to fight.

1572
01:08:04.739 --> 01:08:08.579
So they wanted to make it desperate, so they send down Quark, Ezri

1573
01:08:08.579 --> 01:08:09.900
Bashir.

1574
01:08:09.960 --> 01:08:14.400
And so it's got that sort of element of shit, who's actually going

1575
01:08:14.400 --> 01:08:15.420
to make it out of this alive?

1576
01:08:15.480 --> 01:08:17.460
These people can't fight to save their lives.

1577
01:08:17.520 --> 01:08:25.199
And for once, I think it's an action sequence in 90s trek.

1578
01:08:25.199 --> 01:08:27.300
That is very impressive.

1579
01:08:27.359 --> 01:08:29.039
Well, we'll see.

1580
01:08:29.100 --> 01:08:29.760
We'll see.

1581
01:08:29.819 --> 01:08:31.500
Okay, we'll see.

1582
01:08:31.560 --> 01:08:32.279
That's a challenge.

1583
01:08:32.340 --> 01:08:33.180
All right.

1584
01:08:33.239 --> 01:08:33.659
Okay.

1585
01:08:33.720 --> 01:08:46.500
Let's do it It's been listening to entitled Star Trek Project with

1586
01:08:46.500 --> 01:08:49.859
Joe Ford and Nathan Bottomley, where online at untitled Star Trek

1587
01:08:49.859 --> 01:08:52.680
Project.com, where you can find links to our Twitter, Facebook, and

1588
01:08:52.680 --> 01:08:53.399
YouTube channel.

1589
01:08:53.460 --> 01:08:57.300
Our podcast artwork is by Kayla Sisrin, and the theme was composed

1590
01:08:57.300 --> 01:08:58.560
by Cameron Lamb.

1591
01:08:58.619 --> 01:09:02.520
This episode was recorded on the 19th of October 2022 and released

1592
01:09:02.520 --> 01:09:03.899
on the 28th of October.

1593
01:09:03.960 --> 01:09:08.460
We'll see you next time to Star Trek Deep Space 9, the Siege of AR

1594
01:09:08.460 --> 01:09:09.300
558.

1595
01:09:27.479 --> 01:09:31.380
I was so impressed by that scene, that therapy thing, when I

1596
01:09:31.380 --> 01:09:32.279
watched it again afterwards.

1597
01:09:33.779 --> 01:09:39.060
Oh, well, and it's David Kronenberg is just a fucking genius. he's

1598
01:09:39.060 --> 01:09:39.479
so good.

1599
01:09:39.539 --> 01:09:42.600
I like the bit where it goes, well, I'll get my schedule and I'm

1600
01:09:42.600 --> 01:09:42.720
here.

1601
01:09:42.840 --> 01:09:44.340
So we're doing this, all right?

1602
01:09:44.399 --> 01:09:49.500
Yeah, what about like, you are, you're 8.5 minutes is up.

1603
01:09:49.560 --> 01:09:51.000
Like he's so blunt.

1604
01:09:51.060 --> 01:09:52.260
He's so funny.

1605
01:09:52.319 --> 01:09:53.640
I think he says, was it?

1606
01:09:53.640 --> 01:09:54.840
We're 3 minutes in now.

1607
01:09:54.960 --> 01:09:58.979
We haven't discussed anything. really good.

1608
01:09:59.340 --> 01:10:02.159
He needs to be in every episode, but more.

1609
01:10:02.220 --> 01:10:03.119
Yeah, yeah.

1610
01:10:03.119 --> 01:10:04.319
He's in it a lot.

1611
01:10:04.380 --> 01:10:06.359
He isn't a surprising amount.

1612
01:10:06.420 --> 01:10:07.500
He's really great.

1613
01:10:07.680 --> 01:10:09.119
So good.

1614
01:10:10.260 --> 01:10:17.699
So the tag for this week's episode is going to be asked repeatedly

1615
01:10:17.699 --> 01:10:21.060
going, hey, Joe, hi.

1616
01:10:21.119 --> 01:10:24.420
And then doing other versions of it, and you saying that was

1617
01:10:24.420 --> 01:10:28.260
really crap and like...

1618
01:10:28.319 --> 01:10:30.420
Because that's what we did last week.

1619
01:10:30.779 --> 01:10:35.760
I said, hey, Joe. And then I said, oh, that was a little bit

1620
01:10:35.760 --> 01:10:36.840
unenthusiastic.

1621
01:10:36.960 --> 01:10:39.239
And you said, yeah, you've been really crap and uninterested

1622
01:10:39.239 --> 01:10:39.659
lately.

1623
01:10:39.659 --> 01:10:43.079
And then I did one and then you did one and then we, then I fucked

1624
01:10:43.079 --> 01:10:45.479
up the beginning and...

1625
01:10:45.479 --> 01:10:46.920
Just all of that.

1626
01:10:46.979 --> 01:10:49.979
So it's not going to be a saying clever things about Star Trek

1627
01:10:49.979 --> 01:10:51.180
after the credits.

1628
01:10:51.239 --> 01:10:54.000
It's just going to be like the absolute train it takes.

1629
01:10:54.060 --> 01:10:55.979
Three words.

1630
01:10:55.979 --> 01:10:57.300
Three lines out.

1631
01:10:57.359 --> 01:10:58.079
Yeah that's right.

1632
01:10:58.140 --> 01:10:59.399
Oh, my God.

1633
01:10:59.460 --> 01:11:00.060
I do remember that.

1634
01:11:00.119 --> 01:11:00.960
That's going to be so good.

1635
01:11:01.079 --> 01:11:04.319
I did not mean you've not been enthusiastic in the content of the

1636
01:11:04.319 --> 01:11:04.800
episode.

1637
01:11:04.859 --> 01:11:06.420
No, because I'd heard it.

1638
01:11:06.479 --> 01:11:07.199
I'd heard myself.

1639
01:11:07.260 --> 01:11:08.279
It's just like, what was that?

1640
01:11:08.340 --> 01:11:14.340
Hey, Joe. That was like when you were... unhappy to be here.

1641
01:11:14.399 --> 01:11:18.180
Hey Joe. I met me going, hi.

1642
01:11:20.399 --> 01:11:23.460
A slight hint of hysteria in my voice.

1643
01:11:23.520 --> 01:11:24.479
Yeah.

1644
01:11:24.479 --> 01:11:30.659
Oh, that dramatic episode is so great.

1645
01:11:32.220 --> 01:11:34.560
The ones where we don't like them.

1646
01:11:34.619 --> 01:11:35.399
No, just the best.

1647
01:11:35.460 --> 01:11:37.260
I genuinely think they are the best.

1648
01:11:37.319 --> 01:11:38.100
Subrosa.

1649
01:11:38.100 --> 01:11:39.420
They're about to persona.

1650
01:11:40.500 --> 01:11:41.460
The clock.

1651
01:11:41.520 --> 01:11:43.020
Oh, my favourite bit of the whole episode.

1652
01:11:43.079 --> 01:11:44.640
The clock.

1653
01:11:44.699 --> 01:11:46.560
It's kind of funny.

1654
01:11:46.560 --> 01:11:48.180
Would you imagine making that clock?

1655
01:11:48.239 --> 01:11:49.680
Well, because he wants to know the time.

1656
01:11:49.800 --> 01:11:50.939
What doesn't?

1657
01:11:51.060 --> 01:11:53.460
No, no, it's he doesn't know what time it is.

1658
01:11:53.520 --> 01:11:56.460
But he'd quite like to know.

1659
01:11:56.520 --> 01:11:59.819
And it's kind of like I'm thinking as that go. don't even know

1660
01:11:59.819 --> 01:12:00.600
where that came from.

1661
01:12:00.659 --> 01:12:02.939
It's very funny.

1662
01:12:03.779 --> 01:12:05.579
So stupid.

1663
01:12:05.640 --> 01:12:08.460
But the Dharmok episode is...

1664
01:12:08.460 --> 01:12:14.579
Probably, I mean, it's not all serious, but it's probably our most

1665
01:12:14.579 --> 01:12:18.659
uh, Yeah, where we're just studious episode where we are, Yeah

1666
01:12:18.659 --> 01:12:22.380
definitely accentuating...

1667
01:12:22.380 --> 01:12:25.500
And you are certainly accentuating the intellectual positives of

1668
01:12:25.500 --> 01:12:25.979
that episode.

1669
01:12:25.979 --> 01:12:27.180
And absolutely, yeah.

1670
01:12:27.239 --> 01:12:29.039
Yeah, got a lot going for it.

1671
01:12:29.159 --> 01:12:29.760
It's worth it.

1672
01:12:29.819 --> 01:12:30.180
Yeah.

1673
01:12:30.180 --> 01:12:33.720
I'm not sure we can do it here because this is, yeah, a bit throw

1674
01:12:33.720 --> 01:12:36.479
away, but in terms of character, there's lots to talk about here.

1675
01:12:36.539 --> 01:12:37.979
Yeah, yeah.

1676
01:12:38.039 --> 01:12:40.500
Well, I've, yeah.

1677
01:12:40.560 --> 01:12:45.239
It's funny because we've done the one, 2, from now, which is but

1678
01:12:45.239 --> 01:12:46.439
to but to connect.

1679
01:12:46.500 --> 01:12:49.979
Which I thought was a strong, a better written episode.

1680
01:12:50.039 --> 01:12:50.819
Yeah.

1681
01:12:50.880 --> 01:12:54.899
I think because it had a clearer thing going on.

1682
01:12:54.960 --> 01:12:58.500
It's like, because remember, isn't it the finale, the midseason

1683
01:12:58.500 --> 01:12:59.100
finale?

1684
01:12:59.159 --> 01:13:00.479
So everything's come to a head?

1685
01:13:00.539 --> 01:13:03.600
And all of these things...

1686
01:13:03.659 --> 01:13:05.579
Yeah, it's building towards it.

1687
01:13:05.640 --> 01:13:06.420
Yeah.

1688
01:13:06.479 --> 01:13:08.279
Where, I mean, don't get me wrong.

1689
01:13:08.279 --> 01:13:11.340
It was armadillers with the circular source coming out of their

1690
01:13:11.340 --> 01:13:11.699
backs.

1691
01:13:11.760 --> 01:13:12.180
Beatles.

1692
01:13:12.239 --> 01:13:13.079
They're amazing.

1693
01:13:13.140 --> 01:13:14.579
Oh, well, they're all...

1694
01:13:14.640 --> 01:13:15.479
They look amazing anyway.

1695
01:13:15.539 --> 01:13:17.159
Yeah, they're pretty good.

1696
01:13:17.220 --> 01:13:18.239
I was like, all right.

1697
01:13:18.300 --> 01:13:19.920
Someone clearly having a lot of fun with this.

1698
01:13:20.279 --> 01:13:24.300
Imagine they've got these tiny circular swords coming out.

1699
01:13:24.300 --> 01:13:25.140
Why not?

1700
01:13:25.260 --> 01:13:26.880
We can do that.

1701
01:13:26.939 --> 01:13:28.500
We can do whatever we want.

1702
01:13:28.560 --> 01:13:30.600
The bone bar, you can have anything much money.

1703
01:13:31.859 --> 01:13:33.420
All right.

1704
01:13:33.479 --> 01:13:34.439
Here goes.

1705
01:13:34.500 --> 01:13:37.140
Oh, yeah, translate this broken, Nathan.

1706
01:13:39.119 --> 01:13:41.220
Jesus Christ.

1707
01:13:41.579 --> 01:13:43.859
It's the Beaumont.

1708
01:13:43.979 --> 01:13:44.699
Oh I love them.

1709
01:13:45.300 --> 01:13:47.760
I'm glad we have to buy that.

1710
01:13:47.819 --> 01:13:50.640
Pick some clothes off the rack the other day and I was like, I

1711
01:13:50.640 --> 01:13:52.380
wonder what that coat angle would look like around my head.

1712
01:13:52.439 --> 01:13:53.460
Round my ear.

1713
01:13:54.960 --> 01:13:58.020
No, this should be the tag in this episode, you know.

1714
01:13:58.079 --> 01:14:00.000
We're not being into talking.

1715
01:14:00.060 --> 01:14:01.260
We're just talking about the bone mile.

1716
01:14:01.319 --> 01:14:05.579
It's funny that when you, like just something turns into a thing

1717
01:14:05.579 --> 01:14:07.079
you know, like...

1718
01:14:07.079 --> 01:14:07.739
I was talking about that.

1719
01:14:07.739 --> 01:14:09.420
Rob Valentine last night, you know?

1720
01:14:09.420 --> 01:14:13.319
Because he nabbed something from a flight for entirety.

1721
01:14:13.439 --> 01:14:16.800
He goes. he goes, he goes, I hate doing this. he goes but they're

1722
01:14:16.800 --> 01:14:17.399
so brilliant.

1723
01:14:17.460 --> 01:14:19.619
He goes, so I'm going to have to take something.

1724
01:14:19.680 --> 01:14:21.539
He goes, basically, Skagra's plan.

1725
01:14:21.600 --> 01:14:23.399
It's just a load of word payroll, isn't it?

1726
01:14:23.460 --> 01:14:25.319
I was like, why?

1727
01:14:25.380 --> 01:14:28.260
And then I bring up the boat mark because we started talking about

1728
01:14:28.260 --> 01:14:31.079
how things, you know, and I said, well, it was just alien.

1729
01:14:31.140 --> 01:14:32.220
Well, you know what?

1730
01:14:32.279 --> 01:14:33.359
you want to hear the funniest thing of all?

1731
01:14:33.479 --> 01:14:38.399
I think he listens to Fly Retire, the entirety, a lot for sort of

1732
01:14:38.399 --> 01:14:40.380
your input, because we've talked about you a couple of times.

1733
01:14:40.439 --> 01:14:44.760
And he goes, yeah, he goes, um, I can't wait to listen to uh

1734
01:14:44.760 --> 01:14:46.079
untitled Star Trek project.

1735
01:14:46.140 --> 01:14:46.920
When's it coming out?

1736
01:14:46.979 --> 01:14:49.319
And I was like, what do you mean?

1737
01:14:49.380 --> 01:14:52.920
And he and he went, well, is it is it Joel soon?

1738
01:14:52.979 --> 01:14:55.739
I'm like, I'm advertising it every bloody week on Twitter.

1739
01:14:55.800 --> 01:14:56.819
Did you always on my phone?

1740
01:14:56.880 --> 01:14:58.500
He was listening to Flight Through Entirety.

1741
01:14:58.560 --> 01:14:59.399
I mention it every week.

1742
01:14:59.460 --> 01:15:02.399
And he goes, yeah, but he hasn't got title yet.

1743
01:15:02.460 --> 01:15:04.079
And I was like, oh, God.

1744
01:15:04.140 --> 01:15:05.100
Oh my god.

1745
01:15:09.720 --> 01:15:12.720
I was like, no, no problem.

1746
01:15:12.779 --> 01:15:14.880
That's because he's a proper rider.

1747
01:15:14.939 --> 01:15:18.720
He's a proper writer, so he thinks that I'm titled Star Trek

1748
01:15:18.720 --> 01:15:19.319
project.

1749
01:15:20.039 --> 01:15:23.579
I'll ask for about 5 minutes because we're talking about a

1750
01:15:23.579 --> 01:15:25.319
shoulder and I'm just laughing about that.

1751
01:15:26.699 --> 01:15:28.500
Oh, no.

1752
01:15:28.500 --> 01:15:33.539
And he goes, it is a fact I can be a bit slow on the uptake.

1753
01:15:35.579 --> 01:15:37.619
That's awesome.

1754
01:15:37.680 --> 01:15:40.260
Now he's got 50 episodes he has to listen to.

1755
01:15:40.319 --> 01:15:40.859
I know.

1756
01:15:40.859 --> 01:15:42.659
I've got 2 half days of it.

1757
01:15:42.720 --> 01:15:44.039
Fucking broadcast.

1758
01:15:44.039 --> 01:15:45.899
Yeah, he has to listen now.

1759
01:15:46.140 --> 01:15:48.479
Oh, don't make me long.

1760
01:15:48.479 --> 01:15:51.060
Oh my god. that's awesome